Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Odds and Ends => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2021, 05:15:51 AM

Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2021, 05:15:51 AM
Ok well I went and got myself the second pneumonia vaccine jab yesterday. A year ago now I got the PCV pneumonia vaccine yesterday I got the PPV pneumonia vaccine. The nurse at the pharmacy I went too said that I'll get the PPV pneumonia jab for free when I'm 65 and that it may not be as effective or work at all if I have it now. This doesn't bother me as odds are they will have new pneumonia vaccines by then and even if not over 65 is not known for being the best quality years of your life so banging on for years on end at that age is not something that bothers me. I would rather have it now as apparently this winter could be a bad one. Here in the UK there could be a lot of Norovirus going around, the Flu, Pneumonia, Coronavirus, etc. Abroad of course being in a Ukrainian hospital isn't great so the more protection you have I figure the less likely it will be to end up suffering in one.

Here in the UK you can pay to get all sorts of vaccines these days, two of the largest pharmacies that do them are:

http://healthclinics.superdrug.com/services/

http://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy-advice/vaccinations

Both can be booked online so pretty handy.

The NHS give info on Pneumonia vaccines also:

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pneumococcal-vaccination/


The pharmacies also do a vaccine for HPV, can't remember if that was what our Mobers had as in being infected with but without a cure at the time.

Anyway, it could turn into a bit of a past time of mine going around and getting vaccinated up against all these problems at home or fir when in the FSU.

Next up is my flu jab for this winter which is mid-September.

Anyone else getting all jabbed up for extra protection?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on August 04, 2021, 05:36:09 AM
Geesh, just the mindset that you actually need all these jabs to live your life is testament that you are all in on the plandemic. Just remember with every jab you decrease your body's ability to fight pathogens
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2021, 07:01:36 AM
Geesh, just the mindset that you actually need all these jabs to live your life is testament that you are all in on the plandemic. Just remember with every jab you decrease your body's ability to fight pathogens

Technically it increases. Traditional vaccines such as these just inject dead virus into you which in turn galvanised your immune system into action. New vaccine technology who knows, I decided to let others guinea pig that technology as I went for the AZ vaccine. So hopefully I'll be avoiding hospital this winter. I'm taking vitamin tablets and trying to keep a relatively good diet and exercise a bit. That too can help avoid getting ill abroad I think.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2021, 08:52:15 AM



I hear they're proposing draconian laws in Europe. Seen massive protests fighting against it. Do you feel any pressure Trench? In the effort to save your lives, they want to make vaccine passports mandatory. No exceptions given to those who have natural immunity. They aren't even testing people to see if they have natural immunity. It's possible over half the population has natural immunity already since most of us are asymptomatic. Without a vaccine passport, you won't have a job, can't travel, and lose other benefits like shopping for food. Without proof of vaccination, they will make people penniless and their life miserable if they don't die from starvation first. Hard to believe we've come to this but that is the direction that is proposed.



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2021, 10:17:27 AM


I hear they're proposing draconian laws in Europe. Seen massive protests fighting against it. Do you feel any pressure Trench? In the effort to save your lives, they want to make vaccine passports mandatory. No exceptions given to those who have natural immunity. They aren't even testing people to see if they have natural immunity. It's possible over half the population has natural immunity already since most of us are asymptomatic. Without a vaccine passport, you won't have a job, can't travel, and lose other benefits like shopping for food. Without proof of vaccination, they will make people penniless and their life miserable if they don't die from starvation first. Hard to believe we've come to this but that is the direction that is proposed.

I don't feel any pressure. I voluntarily decided to get the AZ vaccine but had I just been offered Pfizer, Moderna, etc I would have turned it down. I can see why they want people to be vaccinated at the moment if they travel or prove they don't likely have the vaccine through a test. Thing is you don't really know if someone has natural immunity, they may suppose they do but may not. Then they could be at risk themselves or risk spreading the virus to others without others having a say in the matter. It really all depends what is meant by vaccine passport. At the moment most countries require you to have proof of Vaccination or a recent test and I think that is fine. If it goes to Draconian measures such as denying work, except where the vulnerable are present of course etc to force people into it then I think that would be the wrong way about it. For me the current status quo seems a reasonable solution for all people. A use of a vaccine passport as a form of imposing an ID card on the population would be a wrong way to go I think. Current measures for travelling should only be used for as long as a serious threat from the virus remains I believe.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 04, 2021, 11:22:39 AM
I hear they're proposing draconian laws in Europe. Seen massive protests fighting against it. Do you feel any pressure Trench? In the effort to save your lives, they want to make vaccine passports mandatory. No exceptions given to those who have natural immunity. They aren't even testing people to see if they have natural immunity. It's possible over half the population has natural immunity already since most of us are asymptomatic. Without a vaccine passport, you won't have a job, can't travel, and lose other benefits like shopping for food. Without proof of vaccination, they will make people penniless and their life miserable if they don't die from starvation first. Hard to believe we've come to this but that is the direction that is proposed.

Again, completely wrong, and full of disinformation.

(http://i.postimg.cc/7ZRmBzYw/Screen-Shot-2021-08-04-at-20-16-20.png)

http://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en

Those that have protested represent a very small minority of the population.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 04, 2021, 01:38:54 PM

I hear they're proposing draconian laws in Europe. Seen massive protests fighting against it. Do you feel any pressure Trench? In the effort to save your lives, they want to make vaccine passports mandatory. No exceptions given to those who have natural immunity. They aren't even testing people to see if they have natural immunity. It's possible over half the population has natural immunity already since most of us are asymptomatic. Without a vaccine passport, you won't have a job, can't travel, and lose other benefits like shopping for food. Without proof of vaccination, they will make people penniless and their life miserable if they don't die from starvation first. Hard to believe we've come to this but that is the direction that is proposed.


Again, completely wrong, and full of disinformation.
(http://i.postimg.cc/7ZRmBzYw/Screen-Shot-2021-08-04-at-20-16-20.png)
Those that have protested represent a very small minority of the population.


LMAO!


A tale of two countries, and were not taking about the Koreas either. Bottom line is, who cares what Europeans want to do in Europe? Its their continent! If Europeans doesn't want my California booty, I'd have no problem with staying in my world. I'll be fine with that (or at least soon as I get out of California).


Heck, matter of fact, It'll be even better if they also stayed out of mine. This way none of us would ever have to deal with their flicked cigarettes butts on street surfaces anymore. Europeans and Koreans are the only people who still smokes in California.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 04, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Europeans and Koreans are the only people who still smokes in California.

Guess that depends on what's being smoked.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 04, 2021, 02:07:15 PM
Guess that depends on what's being smoked.


I'm too old, man. I still remember the time it was still allowed to smoke during flights. Those ashtrays on armrests would be so smelly and scuzzy-looking, it's unfathomable now.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 04, 2021, 02:11:36 PM
These stories keep coming out and I do find them disturbing.  I still haven't gotten vaccinated, and would rather die with my boots on, rather than die from a vaccine that doesn't seem to be very good, and getting less reliable with the variants.    I'm a bit conflicted on the whole issue still. 

Had a dumbass come into the shop today, sick, sweaty, breathing all over everybody.  He says it's allergies, I told him to stay away he looks like covard virus to me. 

Covid patient goes from 'invincible' to hospital-bed vaccine advocate

An unvaccinated Virginia man who’s been hospitalized with Covid-19 is using social media to urge others to go out and get the shot.

Travis Campbell, 43, has been in the hospital for more than a week with complications from the virus, which also infected his wife and two of their children.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/virginia-covid-patient-goes-invincible-021835184.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/virginia-covid-patient-goes-invincible-021835184.html)

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 04, 2021, 02:46:12 PM
FT-


C'mon, man! Recognize media-sensationalism for what it is. Anyone looking like this dude cannot possibly consider himself *invincible*. The dude got COVID 2 days ahead of me. He's over there and I'm over, well, here..I'm not body-shaming someone laying in heir death bed, but dude...you don't keep the machine tuned-up, the engine will sure fizzle out on you.


BC posted another just like this not too long ago...Same thing there, too.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on August 04, 2021, 06:11:52 PM

These stories keep coming out and I do find them disturbing.  I still haven't gotten vaccinated, and would rather die with my boots on, rather than die from a vaccine that doesn't seem to be very good, and getting less reliable with the variants.    I'm a bit conflicted on the whole issue still. 

Had a dumbass come into the shop today, sick, sweaty, breathing all over everybody.  He says it's allergies, I told him to stay away he looks like covard virus to me.

I usually avoid these type of discussions. Your post, however, piqued my interest. Please explain why you are concerned about the vaccines?

You mention that you are afraid of dying from a vaccine. It seems that you are passionate about this issue, so I would like to gain a better understanding of your concerns.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 04, 2021, 08:22:29 PM
I usually avoid these type of discussions. Your post, however, piqued my interest. Can you explain why you are concerned about the vaccines?

You mention that are afraid of dying from a vaccine. It seems that you are passionate about this issue, so I would like to gain a better understanding of your concerns.

I'm not as passionate about the issue as you might think.  I just haven't been convinced the vaccines are going to be helpful for me.  I have disregarded all the regulations from day 1, My shop never closed despite the rest of the world being a ghost town.  I figured I must have been one of the asymptomatic ones. 

Of course my logic may be terribly flawed and may be put to the test though very soon.  1 hour ago I got a covid text from a regular customer.   He got tested Monday and he and his wife got it (Wednesday now, so why he telling me 2 days later is odd).    I checked my records and he visited us the Friday before.  We loaded his truck together (6AM ish), I noticed he was overly sweaty and winded, but thought nothing of it.  We were in very close proximately and working hard, so I likely would been exposed.    Between that and the numbskull regular today sneezing and coughing and talking about 'allergies', He has never had allergies before.  What would he be allergic to right now anyway?   

It seems suddenly the virus is popping up everywhere, my daughters best friend is battling it also, although it hasn't been bad for her.  At this point, I'm not getting the shot.  If I get through this rough patch without catching it somehow, I might consider getting the shot.  I think I have been exposed though so if I haven't already had it, I likely will have it soon.     

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 04, 2021, 08:31:07 PM
FT-


C'mon, man! Recognize media-sensationalism for what it is. Anyone looking like this dude cannot possibly consider himself *invincible*. The dude got COVID 2 days ahead of me. He's over there and I'm over, well, here..I'm not body-shaming someone laying in heir death bed, but dude...you don't keep the machine tuned-up, the engine will sure fizzle out on you.


BC posted another just like this not too long ago...Same thing there, too.
Well you have fought the battle and seem to be doing pretty good.  I'd like to think I've been asymptomatic but I've never seen a doctor to find out if I had the antibodies so who knows if I have had the virus, or am still vulnerable to getting it.    I move around a lot every day so my body is in pretty good shape.  No working out, just fitness through all the physical work.  In that respect I would have a better chance than most sedentary/obese individuals.

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on August 04, 2021, 08:54:50 PM

I'm not as passionate about the issue as you might think.  I just haven't been convinced the vaccines are going to be helpful for me.  I have disregarded all the regulations from day 1, My shop never closed despite the rest of the world being a ghost town.  I figured I must have been one of the asymptomatic ones. 

Of course my logic may be terribly flawed and may be put to the test though very soon.  1 hour ago I got a covid text from a regular customer.   He got tested Monday and he and his wife got it (Wednesday now, so why he telling me 2 days later is odd).    I checked my records and he visited us the Friday before.  We loaded his truck together (6AM ish), I noticed he was overly sweaty and winded, but thought nothing of it.  We were in very close proximately and working hard, so I likely would been exposed.    Between that and the numbskull regular today sneezing and coughing and talking about 'allergies', He has never had allergies before.  What would he be allergic to right now anyway?   

It seems suddenly the virus is popping up everywhere, my daughters best friend is battling it also, although it hasn't been bad for her.  At this point, I'm not getting the shot.  If I get through this rough patch without catching it somehow, I might consider getting the shot.  I think I have been exposed though so if I haven't already had it, I likely will have it soon. 

Thank you for your reasonable answer.

You're probably going to think I am a pro-vaccine, know-it-all wanting to tell everyone how they should live their lives. When I speak to some people who are resistant to getting their shot, I like to listen to their concerns to see if I can give them reasons to reconsider. At the end of the day, it's their decision.

One concern I get is that long-term effects are not known. For almost all vaccines, long-term effects are known within the first six weeks. See a video by a doctor here: http://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/video/what-are-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-19-vaccine

Quote
So, although some of those effects are long term like polio or narcolepsy, they're still picked up within six weeks. So I think in those preapproval studies where the vaccines have been tested in tens of thousands of people, you could say with confidence that there wasn't at least a relatively uncommon, serious side effect. And now that the vaccine has been given to more than 10 million people, I think you can say with some confidence that there doesn't appear to be right now a very rare, serious side effect that would be something that would cause a long-term problem. But again, we need to be humble, keep our eyes open and look what happens as we vaccinate hundreds and hundreds of millions of people to make sure that there's not an additional problem. But usually when those problems occur, they occur within six weeks of a dose.

The other common complaint I hear is that a lot of the people being admitted to hospital now are fully vaccinated. So if the vaccines were any good, then why are they in hospital?

That's a good question that is complicated to answer. The Financial Times has a great article (http://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff) "Why are fully vaccinated people testing positive for Covid?" (subscription required, I think).

They run through a series of numbers. Let's look at an example where 92% of 1 million people are fully vaccinated (very high, I agree). In this instance, 160 not fully vaccinated are admitted to hospital and 110 fully vaccinated are admitted to hospital. Let's look at how they got to those numbers.

80,000 People Not Fully Vaccinated

80,000 x 0.02 chance of getting symptomatic COVID = 1,600

1,600 people x 0.10 chance of being hospitalized = 160 people.

Hospitalization: 160 people.

920,000 People Fully Vaccinated

920,000 x 0.02 chance of getting symptomatic COVID x ( 1 - 0.8 ) efficacy against infection = 3,680 people

The key difference in the math is that there is an 80% reduction in getting the infection because of the vaccine.

3,680 people x 0.10 chance of being hospitalized x ( 1 - 0.7 ) additional efficacy against hospitalization = 110 people.

The key difference in the math is that there is an 70% reduction in going to the hospital because of the vaccine.

Hospitalization: 110 people.

So even though the vaccines are good at reducing odds of getting sick or hospitalization, they are not failproof. If we were to repeat those calculations with only 70% fully vaccinated, we would find that 600 not fully vaccinated would be admitted to hospital and 84 fully vaccinated would be admitted to hospital.

As the vaccination rate climbs, the not fully vaccinated and vaccinated numbers are closer together. But the vaccines are still very effective at reducing your odds of getting seriously sick.

Conclusion

Anyway, this post may give others some thoughts to consider as they weigh their important decisions.

Again, I appreciate your friendly reply.

Edit: I spotted several errors from copying and pasting. I hope I caught most of them now.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 05, 2021, 12:59:47 AM
We know age can affect outcomes, and higher risk of death.
We know many medical conditions can affect outcomes, and higher risk of death.
What we don't know is why some young, otherwise healthy people die of COVID.

There is still a lot we don't know about how this virus picks its victims.  Is there a genetic component?  Is it the quantity, or frequency of exposure? Both?

http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7

Forget percentages, however low.  Percentages apply to population groups and don't apply to me.  Not for death due to COVID, or vaccination.

I 'survived' many vaccinations during my lifetime.  The risk with COVID vaccines is no greater than vaccines I had before.  Either my 'number' comes up or it doesn't.  It's always a binary risk from the perspective of any individual.  MY chances as an individual, are, and will always be, a toss of fate. The same applies with everything I do in life, even driving to the store.  I cannot live, or die .001%.  It's always one or the other.

When I drive to the store, I put on my seat belt.  This small, simple act does not guarantee my survival in the event of an accident, but can greatly increase my chances of surviving.

If for some reason 'my number' comes up driving to the store, get T-boned and die through no fault of my own, my mother, wife, sons and daughters can, and will, learn to live with it.  But how do you think those I leave behind would feel if I wasn't wearing my seat belt, or drunk?  If I were able to still do so, how would I feel about it?  I know my family would be quite pissed at me for tempting fate, and I would feel very bad that I may have missed an opportunity to still be there with them, simply because I wouldn't take the small effort to strap in, or ask for a ride.   

IMO, it is no different with any vaccine and illness. I'd rather die doing my best, rather than leaving loved ones behind with nagging thoughts of not having done so, only because of my selfishness.

Sure, everyone has a choice, but make that choice selflessly.  Don't get fooled by folks harping about how a vaccine is going to kill you.  Such discourse is not much different from back in the days when seat belt use was first required. Many balked and fussed as much as we do about COVID vaccines, insisting that buckling-up will kill you.

Take a few minutes of your time and read the following article.  Doesn't it all sound so familiar?

http://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance   

Just my POV, folks and food for thought.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 01:14:57 AM

From GeorgiaToday.ge


"On August 8, the United Kingdom will be putting Georgia on its Red List, alongside Mayotte, Mexico and Reunion, meaning British nationals visiting these countries will have to pay over 1700 Pounds ($2400) for a stay in a quarantine hotel on returning home."
That is bound to hurt tourism...
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on August 05, 2021, 01:27:41 AM
From GeorgiaToday.ge


"On August 8, the United Kingdom will be putting Georgia on its Red List, alongside Mayotte, Mexico and Reunion, meaning British nationals visiting these countries will have to pay over 1700 Pounds ($2400) for a stay in a quarantine hotel on returning home."
That is bound to hurt tourism...

I don’t think many Brits go to Georgia directly from the UK. It’s not a holiday destination as such.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 01:49:55 AM
http://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/08/04/first-autopsy-of-dead-person-vaccinated-for-covid-found-to-contain-spike-proteins-in-every-organ-of-body/
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 01:51:18 AM
I don’t think many Brits go to Georgia directly from the UK. It’s not a holiday destination as such.


It is for the Georgian tourism industry which is about 20% of the economy.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 02:12:55 AM


What really gets me is that the treatments for covid and the common flue were withheld. Why? To push as vaccine that does not work. Many people that have died from covid would be alive today if not for this criminal act.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 02:15:46 AM
We know age can affect outcomes, and higher risk of death.
We know many medical conditions can affect outcomes, and higher risk of death.
What we don't know is why some young, otherwise healthy people die of COVID.

There is still a lot we don't know about how this virus picks its victims.  Is there a genetic component?  Is it the quantity, or frequency of exposure? Both?

http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7 (http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7)

Forget percentages, however low.  Percentages apply to population groups and don't apply to me.  Not for death due to COVID, or vaccination.

I 'survived' many vaccinations during my lifetime.  The risk with COVID vaccines is no greater than vaccines I had before.  Either my 'number' comes up or it doesn't.  It's always a binary risk from the perspective of any individual.  MY chances as an individual, are, and will always be, a toss of fate. The same applies with everything I do in life, even driving to the store.  I cannot live, or die .001%.  It's always one or the other.

When I drive to the store, I put on my seat belt.  This small, simple act does not guarantee my survival in the event of an accident, but can greatly increase my chances of surviving.

If for some reason 'my number' comes up driving to the store, get T-boned and die through no fault of my own, my mother, wife, sons and daughters can, and will, learn to live with it.  But how do you think those I leave behind would feel if I wasn't wearing my seat belt, or drunk?  If I were able to still do so, how would I feel about it?  I know my family would be quite pissed at me for tempting fate, and I would feel very bad that I may have missed an opportunity to still be there with them, simply because I wouldn't take the small effort to strap in, or ask for a ride.   

IMO, it is no different with any vaccine and illness. I'd rather die doing my best, rather than leaving loved ones behind with nagging thoughts of not having done so, only because of my selfishness.

Sure, everyone has a choice, but make that choice selflessly.  Don't get fooled by folks harping about how a vaccine is going to kill you.  Such discourse is not much different from back in the days when seat belt use was first required. Many balked and fussed as much as we do about COVID vaccines, insisting that buckling-up will kill you.

Take a few minutes of your time and read the following article.  Doesn't it all sound so familiar?

http://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance (http://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance)   

Just my POV, folks and food for thought.


You are probably like me. I can't stomach the MSM and you probably can't stomach the alternative media.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 05, 2021, 03:02:28 AM

You are probably like me. I can't stomach the MSM and you probably can't stomach the alternative media.

Maxx,

what I wrote has nothing to do with either, or any media. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on August 05, 2021, 03:54:07 AM

It is for the Georgian tourism industry which is about 20% of the economy.
I meant that it’s not a known holiday destination for brits coming from the UK.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 04:07:46 AM
Maxx,

what I wrote has nothing to do with either, or any media.


We all form our opinions from what we read and whom we associate with.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on August 05, 2021, 04:11:24 AM

From the Baltimore Sun:


I went to a party with 14 other vaccinated people; 11 of us got COVID | COMMENTARY

I was sitting on an examination table at an urgent care clinic in Timonium, giving my history to a physician’s assistant. An hour later, she would call me to confirm that I was positive for COVID-19.

Given the way that I felt, it was what I expected. But it wasn’t supposed to happen: I’ve been fully vaccinated for months.

Five days earlier, I had gone to a house party in Montgomery County. There were 15 adults there, all of us fully vaccinated. The next day, our host started to feel sick. The day after that, she tested positive for COVID-19. She let all of us know right away. I wasn’t too worried. It was bad luck for my friend, but surely she wasn’t that contagious. Surely all of us were immune. I’d been sitting across the room from her. I figured I’d stay home and isolate from my family for a few days, and that would be that. And even that seemed like overkill.

The official Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guideline stated that, since I was fully vaccinated, I didn’t need to do anything different unless I started developing symptoms. I’m an epidemiologist at a major medical research university, which has a dedicated COVID exposure hotline for staff. I called it, and workers said I didn’t need to do anything.




Then, I started to hear that a few other people who had been at the party were getting sick. Then a few more. At this point, 11 of the 15 have tested positive for COVID.

Fortunately, none of us seems to be seriously ill. When fully vaccinated people experience so-called “breakthrough” infection, they tend not to progress to serious disease requiring hospitalization, and I expect that will be the case for us. But I can tell you that even a “mild” case of COVID-19 is pretty miserable. I’ve had fever, chills and muscle aches, and I’ve been weak enough that I can barely get out of bed. I don’t wish this on anybody.

Our research group at work has shown that the COVID vaccine isn’t always fully effective in transplant recipients. I’m proud of the work we’ve done. But once I got the vaccine, I figured the COVID battle was over for me. Out of an abundance of caution I took an antibody test shortly after my second vaccine dose. It was off the charts.

As much as I hate me and my fully-vaccinated friends being sick, I’ve been thinking about what our little outbreak among means for the rest of us. Here’s what I’ve concluded:

State and local health departments, and the CDC, need to do a better job collecting and reporting data on breakthrough infections. The CDC announced in May that it was only going to collect data on breakthrough infections that led to hospitalization or death, which are fortunately rare. But that means that outbreaks like ours will fly under the radar. Any of us could infect others, apparently including other vaccinated people. It’s not clear if our group got sick because of a particularly virulent variant, because the vaccine is wearing off or for some other reason. Without good data, we’ll never know.

Fully vaccinated people exposed to COVID need to isolate at home and get tested. I thought I might be overreacting by leaving work in the middle of the day and immediately moving to our basement at home. Now I’m glad I did.

Governments and businesses should consider bringing back masking requirements, even for vaccinated people. We’re still at risk of getting sick, and we’re still at risk of infecting others. The CDC recently recommended masks for vaccinated people in areas with over 50 new infections per 100,000 people per week. In the seven days before my exposure, Montgomery County had 19.4 new infections per 100,000 people.

Pharmaceutical companies, research institutions and governments should prioritize research into booster vaccines. At one point it seemed like two mRNA doses or a single Janssen dose might be the answer. But apparently, whether because of variants or fading immunity, being “fully vaccinated” doesn’t necessarily mean you’re immune.

COVID-19 vaccines do an enormous amount of good. I expect a milder course of disease since I’m vaccinated. But COVID-19 isn’t over, even for the vaccinated. As the pandemic continues to evolve, we need to evolve with it.

Allan Massie (amassie1@jhmi.edu) is an epidemiologist and biomedical researcher at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. The views expressed here are his own.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2021, 07:48:47 AM
http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7 (http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7)

Forget percentages, however low.  Percentages apply to population groups and don't apply to me.  Not for death due to COVID, or vaccination.

I 'survived' many vaccinations during my lifetime.  The risk with COVID vaccines is no greater than vaccines I had before.



Nature magazine isn't an unbiased source anymore. Last year they heavily promoted faulty lab studies out of China saying the virus was natural and couldn't be made in a lab. Government website VAERS shows the COVID experimental vaccine in 6 months killed more people than all other vaccines combined in the last 70 years.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2021, 09:23:29 AM
VAERS collects raw data. So, if someone gets a COVID vaccination, and a week later is hit by a bus and that's reported by a family member, that will be included in the data.  There's even a disclaimer on the site.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html (http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html)

Here's a scientist's perspective -

http://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-health/dont-fall-vaers-scare-tactic (http://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-health/dont-fall-vaers-scare-tactic)


In Canada, only medical professional can report adverse effects from vaccines.  They are legally obligated to report adverse effects to any vaccine.  Here is Canadian data on COVID, where more than 72% of the population has had at least one dose of vaccine, and more than 49 million doses of vaccine have been admiinstered -


http://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/#a6 (http://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/#a6)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 05, 2021, 10:07:27 AM
Well you have fought the battle and seem to be doing pretty good.  I'd like to think I've been asymptomatic but I've never seen a doctor to find out if I had the antibodies so who knows if I have had the virus, or am still vulnerable to getting it.    I move around a lot every day so my body is in pretty good shape.  No working out, just fitness through all the physical work.  In that respect I would have a better chance than most sedentary/obese individuals.

Fathertime!   


FT-

Bottom line ol' chap...you need to captain your own ship...Ain't no one is gonna row it for yah! You're a big boy in big boy's pants. You'll do what you feel right for you.

The biggest danger to us all at this time is, undeniably, our f@#!ng government! It was decided at the onset of this pandemic to politicize it so they can manipulate every science that would help drive an intended political agenda down. Fear and confusion are the best 'bait 'n chum' to get this frenzy started! Which is why since then, we got nothing but mixed bags of information that changed quicker than the wind blew.

The masses will always be willing to trade it's own freedom and liberty for safety and security. It is up to each of us to make our own decisions. However, once we allow all these vaccine passports, mandates, etc, become 'normal', totalitarianism takes root - and we will not ever get any of it back. Think Summer 2020. Looting, rioting and destruction of properties had all become legal!


Do you not yet find it strange governments that want to 'save' all of us from a virus that kills less than 2% of us, yet the same government wouldn't hesitate to send our kids in the millions to abortion clinics and wars?

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 05, 2021, 10:25:22 AM

Nature magazine isn't an unbiased source anymore. Last year they heavily promoted faulty lab studies out of China saying the virus was natural and couldn't be made in a lab.

Of course, discredit.  To date, there is nothing that proves, or disproves your assertion.


Quote
Government website VAERS shows the COVID experimental vaccine in 6 months killed more people than all other vaccines combined in the last 70 years.

And here you go AGAIN, misusing the VAERS website for your own purposes of disinformation.  There is a bold disclaimer you either have not read, do not wish to read, or simply ignore as contrary to your purpose.

Quote
VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

Furthermore:

Quote
Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:

Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.
Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information.
The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

This is at least the third time I have posted this exact same information in response to your post.  Yet, you insist, and continue your attempts to deceive others.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2021, 10:50:38 AM
VAERS collects raw data. So, if someone gets a COVID vaccination, and a week later is hit by a bus and that's reported by a family member, that will be included in the data.  There's even a disclaimer on the site.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html (http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html)




Most people don't even know there is a database to report adverse events caused by vaccines. There are much more incidences that are not reported. Every report has a description. Some reports are done by medical personnel based on the language they use. There are flaws in the system but it still doesn't change the fact there are more deaths in 6 months of COVID vaccines than all other vaccines combined. There are 520K adverse event reports and the true count is much likely higher. Although BC thinks VAERS is a joke, it is supply by our government's health institution and they use it to gauge what is going on. Although not perfect, it is a tool and it's the best we got to get the big picture on what is going on.


Strange things are happening when they got to threaten people with being fired from work, starvation and arrest if they don't get the jab and aren't even considering giving people a pass who have natural immunity. They are also ignoring treatments from medicines that been around for years and passed all safety tests. Last year I defended the scientific community abandoning studies of treatments like HQC believing they don't work. They lied to us many times about the origin and other things. GQ was right they are actively suppressing treatments. They're not giving treatments as much attention as they should. If there is an approved treatment, they would have to revoke the emergency authorization of experimental vaccines. They're in too deep with their investment of vaccines to have something show up to stop the program.


Not only are experimental vaccines dangerous, a guy put out a video of being in a drive thru for COVID testing to show testing is dangerous too. He showed ingredients of the test they were going to give him. It contains ethylene oxide. NIH's Cancer dot gov is a good place to read about it. It causes cancer, damages our DNA, used as a pesticide and it sterilizes. This product can damage our reproductive organs and health. In this massive effort to 'save' humanity, we are given products that can prevent reproduction, hurt or kill us. If a person doesn't want the jab, companies and government will make them take a dangerous test once or twice a week. Jab or test, either option is dangerous.


12 of the 13 most vaccinated countries on earth are now listed as travel risks by the CDC. Vaccines are not suppressing the virus, they're advancing the spread and allowing for anti vaccine variants to emerge. Leading experts on vaccines warned this could happen last year yet the government decided to push vaccines on every healthy person in the world using a strategy that was never needed in other pandemics that we've successfully beaten. It's unfortunate this virus escaped or was released from a lab but we need to let our natural immune systems deal with it, learn and pass on these protections to future generations. The only people needing the jab are those that are at high risk of harm from COVID, the elderly and sick.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 05, 2021, 11:40:13 AM
...1 hour ago I got a covid text from a regular customer.   He got tested Monday and he and his wife got it (Wednesday now, so why he telling me 2 days later is odd).    I checked my records and he visited us the Friday before.  We loaded his truck together (6AM ish), I noticed he was overly sweaty and winded, but thought nothing of it.  We were in very close proximately and working hard, so I likely would been exposed....

Therein lies another problem you just spotted FT. Albeit unintentionally. So I'll still give you brownie points, young man! There is NO readily available information system that inform the masses what they truly need to know.

'When' the test was done is hardly important. All it does is confirm 'detection' of the presence of the virus's RNA in your system. What is very important to know is 'when' did he actually contracted the virus. I suppose, for many, if not most, this will be nearly impossible unless there's an undeniable visual experience when it happened e.g. a person sneezing at you, etc..

Remember in the beginning when CDC had every person searching for those hand sanitizers? I remember, at the old company I was working for early last year, we actually paid a crew morning/night, to literally come and sanitize every working surface everyday believing CDC about how we should clean all surfaces, washing hands, even food we buy at stores, etc. LMAO! Notice that sh!t is out the proverbial window?

Anyway, thank your friend/customer for proper COVID protocol. He did the right thing. At the onset of the virus in a new host, immediate assault takes effect almost instantaneously. The virus goes in this intense 'viral shedding' for 48-60 hours straight. That is the infected person's MOST infectious period. Up to 5 days. It's literally a *viral explosion* that gets released from all over the person's respiratory systems into the wild yonder...looking for a new, unsuspecting host to invade.

Just as instantaneous, this is the same period your body hurries to create antibodies to combat it. The battle continues - on average - for up to 8-10 days. Within this period, maybe the entire time, is when your body uses all your energy for the fight and you begin to exert heat we term 'having a fever'. This is the period of that mind-blowing feeling of fatigue! The state I wouldn't wish on anyone - maybe except for one or two people I know.

At times other people's immune system is stronger than some and wins the battle sooner than from others. Sometimes, others may have underlying medical condition, which causes, or contribute, to the person's ultimate demise. Far more times than not, COVID won't be what ultimately 'kills' the person, e.g. heart attack, stroke, invasive intubation, etc...

Do you recall sometime before 2016, there was this huge 'promotion' drive that people get their Vit. D levels checked? It was saying that studies revealed the population was largely deficient in Vit. D! I credit my Dr. Dude for that. I credit part of my salvation was always making sure we checked the level in me since. Sometimes youth and being able to 'walk' around all day doesn't necessarily guarantee you good health. The body also need proper bullets for its guns when the battle alarm goes off, too.

As for vaccines, I'm certain there's a vaccinated pack/day stogiehead (maybe even a 'supersizing diet coke' behemoth) out there clinging to advertised belief he's in safe harbor for getting vaccinated. They're in for a very rude awakening and there's no amount of vaccine, booster or otherwise, that won't punch their ticket to hell..
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2021, 11:45:47 AM
These stories keep coming out and I do find them disturbing.  I still haven't gotten vaccinated, and would rather die with my boots on, rather than die from a vaccine that doesn't seem to be very good, and getting less reliable with the variants.    I'm a bit conflicted on the whole issue still. 

Had a dumbass come into the shop today, sick, sweaty, breathing all over everybody.  He says it's allergies, I told him to stay away he looks like covard virus to me. 

Covid patient goes from 'invincible' to hospital-bed vaccine advocate

An unvaccinated Virginia man who’s been hospitalized with Covid-19 is using social media to urge others to go out and get the shot.

Travis Campbell, 43, has been in the hospital for more than a week with complications from the virus, which also infected his wife and two of their children.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/virginia-covid-patient-goes-invincible-021835184.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/virginia-covid-patient-goes-invincible-021835184.html)

Fathertime!

Exactly the reason I chose to have the (AZ) Vaccine as it's too late when in hospital facing either death or a long term debilitating illness with the virus. That poor guy in the news link won't be going anywhere unless he is lucky enough to come through it relatively intact, some do, some don't. I think unfortunately there are people like the dumbass that came into your shop who just don't get it and are a hazard to others in transmitting the virus and they simply don't care. Fair enough if they don't want the virus but to spread it so obviously around and not consider whose lives they wreak isn't really on in my opinion.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 05, 2021, 12:13:17 PM
2 of the MOST strangest things I've heard since the outbreak of this pandemic, are coming from the land of OZ! Maybe Mr. DAVO can help us out with this.

1. We all know the first one: Aussies starting the whole paper towel madness!

2. Now This: This recent full-on military total lockdown!!! WTF?!? Because they need to FULLY vaccinate every single  person? Because of 2 days where they had a rise of over 100/200 new case - IN THE ENTIRE DAMN COUNTRY?!!!!

They even actually have military choppers flying everywhere telling people to 'go back inside'!!!

I/O, where the heck are you? Have you guys gone truly mad? Is this true?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 05, 2021, 02:09:02 PM

FT-

Bottom line ol' chap...you need to captain your own ship...Ain't no one is gonna row it for yah! You're a big boy in big boy's pants. You'll do what you feel right for you.

 

Do you not yet find it strange governments that want to 'save' all of us from a virus that kills less than 2% of us, yet the same government wouldn't hesitate to send our kids in the millions to abortion clinics and wars?
Hola Old Chap!

Regarding the strangeness regarding the overreaction of government, my little theory is that the virus COULD be extremely dangerous as it continues to mutate, and perhaps the people in the know know this.   Maybe this particular virus is just a couple simple mutations away from killing 10%, 20% 50% who knows.   The thing is, the mutations are going to happen no matter what.  Too many nations have 5% 10% 20% of their people vaccinated, so mutations are guaranteed.   If indeed the theory is correct than the virus in the future is going to be horrible, and there is little to nothing that can be done about it.    Currently (in my opinion) the reaction doesn't seem to make sense.   

For me, it seems I'm just going to have to do battle if I haven't already.  I'm only armed with a fairly healthy body and an immune system that has worked ok up to now. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 05, 2021, 03:40:45 PM
 
 :shock: 

http://gop-foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ORIGINS-OF-COVID-19-REPORT.pdf (http://gop-foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ORIGINS-OF-COVID-19-REPORT.pdf)

Who'll be the first to apologize to Trump?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2021, 04:02:54 PM

Regarding the strangeness regarding the overreaction of government, my little theory is that the virus COULD be extremely dangerous as it continues to mutate, and perhaps the people in the know know this.   Maybe this particular virus is just a couple simple mutations away from killing 10%, 20% 50% who knows.   The thing is, the mutations are going to happen no matter what.  Too many nations have 5% 10% 20% of their people vaccinated, so mutations are guaranteed.   If indeed the theory is correct than the virus in the future is going to be horrible, and there is little to nothing that can be done about it.    Currently (in my opinion) the reaction doesn't seem to make sense.


Fathertime!

Think it might be down to the news coming out of Israel that the Pfizer vaccine that they used may start to wear off after 5 months or so and start to lose effectiveness. Thus, unless people get vaccinated every 6 months or so if not sooner then death rates may start to go up again. In the UK there has been over a hundred deaths for the last few days, roughly around 130 deaths type of direction. So the deaths at that rate start to mount up, add to that if the protection of vaccines start to wear of the death rate may go up. That's nothing to say of those needing hospitalisation & ventilators.

Currently hospitals are pushed in the UK, but things are expected to get worse this winter:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19473001.amp/

So add Flu, Pneumonia, Norovirus, etc to the mix and things could get very difficult quickly. The pneumonia vaccine I had the other day I was told will last up to around five years but like all vaccines no guarantees.

My guess is that the government already know that things aren't going to be returning to normal any time soon, that this virus thing is far from over yet, that we are stuck with it as an ongoing problem for now, that victory as some thought hasn't yet been achieved.

I can certainly sense some change in mood I think from the Gov that they are probably no longer seeing it as job done even as they allow more opening up. The big thing here I think is that even though there are now well over a hundred people dying a day they are remaining quiet over who is dying. Most old folk got Vaccinated, not so much the young and although apparently a fifth of hospitalisations for the virus are in the 18-30 unvaccinated bracket I get the impression not that many of them are dying. The previous figures we saw tend to point to the old folk still being at risk my guess being the elderly & medically vulnerable.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 06, 2021, 02:10:58 AM

Most people don't even know there is a database to report adverse events caused by vaccines. There are much more incidences that are not reported. Every report has a description. Some reports are done by medical personnel based on the language they use. There are flaws in the system but it still doesn't change the fact there are more deaths in 6 months of COVID vaccines than all other vaccines combined. There are 520K adverse event reports and the true count is much likely higher. Although BC thinks VAERS is a joke, it is supply by our government's health institution and they use it to gauge what is going on. Although not perfect, it is a tool and it's the best we got to get the big picture on what is going on.

The VAERS database is not intended for 'most people', but does allow anyone to enter a report.  It is simply an in-box, spam and all.  Any deaths reported may, or may not be associated with the vaccine.  When did I say it was a joke?  I said you were misusing the data, in ways explicitly defined in the site disclaimers.


Quote
Strange things are happening when they got to threaten people with being fired from work, starvation and arrest if they don't get the jab and aren't even considering giving people a pass who have natural immunity. They are also ignoring treatments from medicines that been around for years and passed all safety tests. Last year I defended the scientific community abandoning studies of treatments like HQC believing they don't work. They lied to us many times about the origin and other things. GQ was right they are actively suppressing treatments. They're not giving treatments as much attention as they should. If there is an approved treatment, they would have to revoke the emergency authorization of experimental vaccines. They're in too deep with their investment of vaccines to have something show up to stop the program.

No one is threatening anyone.  As described before, a green pass does not require vaccination.  Previous infection and testing are also ways to get a green pass.  Obviously you either did not read or comprehend the information provided.

Quote
Not only are experimental vaccines dangerous, a guy put out a video of being in a drive thru for COVID testing to show testing is dangerous too. He showed ingredients of the test they were going to give him. It contains ethylene oxide. NIH's Cancer dot gov is a good place to read about it. It causes cancer, damages our DNA, used as a pesticide and it sterilizes. This product can damage our reproductive organs and health. In this massive effort to 'save' humanity, we are given products that can prevent reproduction, hurt or kill us. If a person doesn't want the jab, companies and government will make them take a dangerous test once or twice a week. Jab or test, either option is dangerous.

It doesn't matter what chemicals are used in the tests.  Nothing goes into the body except a swab.  Sample swabs go into the test.  You and 'some guy' are misinformed and promulgating disinformation.  http://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs/fact-check-nasal-swabs-sterilised-with-ethylene-oxide-are-safe-to-use-the-sterilisation-process-is-tightly-regulated-by-international-standards-idUSL1N2LU1H0 Other rather implausible claims are being made as well.  http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-swabs/fact-check-coronavirus-tests-do-not-cause-brain-damage-or-plant-substances-on-the-brain-idUSKCN24G2NL

Quote
12 of the 13 most vaccinated countries on earth are now listed as travel risks by the CDC. Vaccines are not suppressing the virus, they're advancing the spread and allowing for anti vaccine variants to emerge. Leading experts on vaccines warned this could happen last year yet the government decided to push vaccines on every healthy person in the world using a strategy that was never needed in other pandemics that we've successfully beaten. It's unfortunate this virus escaped or was released from a lab but we need to let our natural immune systems deal with it, learn and pass on these protections to future generations. The only people needing the jab are those that are at high risk of harm from COVID, the elderly and sick.

Indeed, the vaccines appear to not suppress transmission of the Delta variant that has much greater transmissivity.  Otherwise, the current vaccines are working fine.  Babies born to mothers that were infected more than two months prior to birth do have higher levels of antibodies.  How long they last is not yet know.  Similarly, I expect mothers that have been vaccinated also pass on antibodies.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20210505/Robust-passive-and-active-immunity-found-in-infants-born-to-COVID-19-positive-mothers.aspx

I continue to suggest you take the time to get past the headlines, and dig into substance, so you can post more informed and correct information.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 06, 2021, 06:27:09 AM
I wonder how many that are unvaccinated would change their mind if they were responsible for hospital bills.  If insurance companies wouldn't cover the costs.  In my case, I would be forced to get vaccinated or my life's work could be wiped out rather quickly for an extended hospital stay of months.


Don’t want the COVID-19 vaccine? Then pay the full cost if you land in the hospital

Much of the argument about lockdowns and mask mandates boils down to disagreements about the level of risk that’s appropriate to impose on others and how much should be left to individuals to decide.

But now that vaccines are easy to obtain (and have always been free to the recipients), the calculations have shifted. Those who choose to remain unvaccinated no longer pose a serious threat to the vaccinated – but they’re still imposing a cost. Hospitalizations for COVID are almost entirely confined to those who are not vaccinated, often at the cost of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.


 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-want-the-covid-19-vaccine-then-pay-the-full-cost-if-you-land-in-the-hospital-11628206594?siteid=yhoof2   (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-want-the-covid-19-vaccine-then-pay-the-full-cost-if-you-land-in-the-hospital-11628206594?siteid=yhoof2)

Fathertime! 

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2021, 06:45:08 AM
I wonder how many that are unvaccinated would change their mind if they were responsible for hospital bills.  If insurance companies wouldn't cover the costs.  In my case, I would be forced to get vaccinated or my life's work could be wiped out rather quickly for an extended hospital stay of months.


Don’t want the COVID-19 vaccine? Then pay the full cost if you land in the hospital

Much of the argument about lockdowns and mask mandates boils down to disagreements about the level of risk that’s appropriate to impose on others and how much should be left to individuals to decide.

But now that vaccines are easy to obtain (and have always been free to the recipients), the calculations have shifted. Those who choose to remain unvaccinated no longer pose a serious threat to the vaccinated – but they’re still imposing a cost. Hospitalizations for COVID are almost entirely confined to those who are not vaccinated, often at the cost of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.


 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-want-the-covid-19-vaccine-then-pay-the-full-cost-if-you-land-in-the-hospital-11628206594?siteid=yhoof2   (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-want-the-covid-19-vaccine-then-pay-the-full-cost-if-you-land-in-the-hospital-11628206594?siteid=yhoof2)

Fathertime!

Wonder no more. It’s one of the most idiotic thing to get published since election.

Smoking and tobacco products, along with alcohol combined, cause most if not all the terminal disease in country like cancer, heart disease, stroke, tooth and gum diseases, etc.  yet people still do.

At least the US had retracted to far less than 20% of the population. But globally, smoking along kills 8 million worldwide. Not far behind starvation and these two clearly are preventable.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
This is worth reading I think for anyone taking for granted that their immune system alone will see off the Coronavirus:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/cambridge-educated-anti-vaxxer-dies-154926484.html

He would have certainly have been able to have the AZ vaccine before he caught it, most likely both doses, that would have most likely probably saved him. I'm not saying vaccines are perfect or any vaccine should be taken but I think their worth careful consideration in my opinion.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 06, 2021, 10:36:59 AM
Wonder no more. It’s one of the most idiotic thing to get published since election.

Smoking and tobacco products, along with alcohol combined, cause most if not all the terminal disease in country like cancer, heart disease, stroke, tooth and gum diseases, etc.  yet people still do.

At least the US had retracted to far less than 20% of the population. But globally, smoking along kills 8 million worldwide. Not far behind starvation and these two clearly are preventable.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country

Smokers and drinkers do pay additional taxes for their 'sins'.  Approximately 10 billion for drinkers, and 12 billion for smokers in the US.  I guess one could say they are taking some financial responsibility for their actions.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2021, 01:04:38 PM
Smokers and drinkers do pay additional taxes for their 'sins'.  Approximately 10 billion for drinkers, and 12 billion for smokers in the US.  I guess one could say they are taking some financial responsibility for their actions.


If you say so...what about victims of DUI, and second-hand smoke victims? Who takes care of them?


For instance: http://www.lifesafer.com/blog/real-cost-drunk-driving/#:~:text=A%20report%20was%20recently%20released,Research%20and%20Evaluation%20(PIRE).
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 06, 2021, 08:25:41 PM
GQ,

Insurance and taxes, as your article stated, imposed on all of us.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 08, 2021, 06:45:35 AM
These stories are always popping up in the news.  For some, it doesn't matter how healthy/strong you are, the virus can take you out for whatever reason.  In his dying days, this particular man wishes he took the vaccine.  Would the vaccine have made a difference for him?  Who is to say? perhaps yes. 

The pressure is turning up to get the shot.  Every morning I wake up feeling ok, but one of these mornings I realize I may not.  This week my young boy and niece (Living with us now) will be in school.  I can't see how we won't have some exposure, if we miraculously haven't already. 

My opinion is there will be no wiping this virus out for quite a time.  It is probably wisest to get the shot, and take some precautions.  Why I can't bring myself to do all of this is mystery to me.  I generally believe in science/vaccines, but something about this particular scenario keeps telling me to hold off for now. 

Fathertime! 

A 42-year-old fitness fanatic was 'beating himself up' over his decision not to get vaccinated during his final days, his family said

A 42-year-old British man who loved exercise and eating healthy died of COVID-19 last week.

John Eyers didn't get vaccinated because he "felt that he would be ok," his family said.

The father-of-one told doctors in his final days that he regretted his decision not to get a vaccine.

An unvaccinated 42-year-old fitness fanatic who regularly climbed mountains and competed in the ironman has died of COVID-19, his family said.


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/42-old-fitness-fanatic-beating-090128572.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/42-old-fitness-fanatic-beating-090128572.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2021, 12:11:00 PM
These stories are always popping up in the news.  For some, it doesn't matter how healthy/strong you are, the virus can take you out for whatever reason.  In his dying days, this particular man wishes he took the vaccine.  Would the vaccine have made a difference for him?  Who is to say? perhaps yes. 

The pressure is turning up to get the shot.  Every morning I wake up feeling ok, but one of these mornings I realize I may not.  This week my young boy and niece (Living with us now) will be in school.  I can't see how we won't have some exposure, if we miraculously haven't already. 

My opinion is there will be no wiping this virus out for quite a time.  It is probably wisest to get the shot, and take some precautions.  Why I can't bring myself to do all of this is mystery to me.  I generally believe in science/vaccines, but something about this particular scenario keeps telling me to hold off for now. 

Fathertime! 

A 42-year-old fitness fanatic was 'beating himself up' over his decision not to get vaccinated during his final days, his family said

A 42-year-old British man who loved exercise and eating healthy died of COVID-19 last week.

John Eyers didn't get vaccinated because he "felt that he would be ok," his family said.

The father-of-one told doctors in his final days that he regretted his decision not to get a vaccine.

An unvaccinated 42-year-old fitness fanatic who regularly climbed mountains and competed in the ironman has died of COVID-19, his family said.


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/42-old-fitness-fanatic-beating-090128572.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/42-old-fitness-fanatic-beating-090128572.html)

Fathertime!

That's a really interesting news story FT, I wasn't aware of it so thank you for sharing. Strange that someone so healthy passed away from the virus. I'm going to assume he didn't smoke or drink alcohol excessively as the article said he had a healthy diet and was an exercise fanatic. My thoughts are that possibly he went the opposite way in that he was doing too much exercise added onto his normal work day, etc and that at his age that knackered out his body too much thereby letting the virus make swift progress. We already know that during the virus resting a lot can make the difference between the virus getting rapidly worse or not so. Boris Johnson himself seemed to make his virus condition worse last year when he had the virus by not resting enough, he was seemingly getting better so carried on working from home then suddenly got a lot worse before ultimately recovering. That of course was the original virus, the Delta variant & other varients are seemingly possibly even worse.

Another possibility could be that those people that are just somewhat active and somewhat eat healthily such as myself might have a better immune system due to coming down with colds & flu type of viruses fairly frequently, often in winter. Therefore building up more antibodies to fight viruses over a really fit person who is normally less susceptible to cold & flu. So all that suffering may indeed not be in vain ;D Purely speculative of course.

Anyway it gives a better idea of some of those who may be dying of the virus, still around a hundred or so a day in this country so the fight is far from over it seems. I'm guessing the theory is at present is that the Delta & other current crop of variants will have to run its course before we see whether the virus is largely seen off or more varients develop.

Winter is apparently going to be a bad one this year. I think I will keep my head down as much as possible and will keep up my mask wearing, hand sanitizer gel, mouthwash, etc and hope for the best. Apparently the hospitals here in the UK are under the strain already with big long waits for A&E etc so I reckon it will be a case of don't get I'll or injured as there may not be much hope, a case of DIY it and first aid kit at the ready I reckon.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2021, 11:04:52 AM
The customer/buddy who came here with the Coronavirus 10 days ago, has now been hospitalized and he, and especially his wife are now quite ill.  Very healthy people, not overweight, fit/active energetic sorts, wife 40, husband 54 years old.    Another wake up call for me and others.  He has been an anti vaxxer from the view that he felt he would be ok, if he got it.    He and his wife travelled the week before to Hawaii, and the southern US. He thought he got it during this travels.   

He seemed fine a few days ago, but seems to have had a turn for the worse.  Where is the old Chap GQ, who was feeling good last he posted.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
The customer/buddy who came here with the Coronavirus 10 days ago, has now been hospitalized and he, and especially his wife are now quite ill.  Very healthy people, not overweight, fit/active energetic sorts, wife 40, husband 54 years old.    Another wake up call for me and others.  He has been an anti vaxxer from the view that he felt he would be ok, if he got it.    He and his wife travelled the week before to Hawaii, and the southern US. He thought he got it during this travels.   

He seemed fine a few days ago, but seems to have had a turn for the worse.  Where is the old Chap GQ, who was feeling good last he posted.   

Fathertime!

Definitely sounds like the variants are hitting younger people in their middle ages badly who have not had the vaccine. I recall that a few got hot by the original virus before we had the vaccine but it seems worse with the variants. Mostly they were people with underlying health conditions, moreso the elderly. Now it seems you can be quite healthy but if at least around middle age then there is a quite a risk without the vaccine. Just think of how things would be if we hadn't development any vaccines, we would be dying in our droves from middle age upwards unless kept under severe lockdown restrictions, that and/or the health care services would have completely cracked by now.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
Just think of how things would be if we hadn't development any vaccines, we would be dying in our droves from middle age upwards unless kept under severe lockdown restrictions, that and/or the health care services would have completely cracked by now.
It would be interesting to see what would have happened, if there were a way to run an accurate simulation of what would have happened had the US done nothing to mitigate the virus in any way and the vaccine wasn't around.  The number might have easily been in the millions if not 10's of millions.  It is very hard to say.  This world is obviously a cruel unforgiving place in situations like this. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 09, 2021, 12:51:12 PM
...
He seemed fine a few days ago, but seems to have had a turn for the worse.  Where is the old Chap GQ, who was feeling good last he posted.   

Fathertime!


I'm here, feeling like a stud bull. Unscathed by the fake news being thrashed around by the likes of you. 


One would think after a deluge of fake news, especially the past 5-6 years, folks would at least be skeptical, but...it is times like these we are reminded why such proposition like Calif. Prop 47 actually gets passed in ballot elections...
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2021, 01:41:27 PM
Here is an interesting article on what may be to come, the Delta Plus variant:

http://www.reuters.com/world/india/beyond-delta-scientists-are-watching-new-coronavirus-variants-2021-08-08/

They are still unsure of how transmissible the Delta Plus variant is and how bad it might affect someone. Other variants may come forth as the worst also. The Delta Plus might largely be sorted out by those that have had the Delta variant so possibly a variant from elsewhere might turn out worse. If we are lucky then we might have seen the worst of it over with. They are working on a next generation of vaccine to deal with the variants should they become a big problem. In that the US & the UK are again likely to lead the way, Russia & China will again likely follow with a dodgy knock off while other nations wait for the vaccines to filter through to them. My guess is that poorer nations may struggle to keep up as some are still not far in Vaccinating using the first generation of vaccines.

Meanwhile here I'm keeping to wearing my good quality mask when inside public areas & using plenty of hand sanitizer lotion.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 09, 2021, 01:49:09 PM
Early Saturday morning, I received the text below from LA County Health Dept. On the face of it, I have a mixed feeling about it.

On the one hand, its' good they have a follow-up program, yet OTOH, it's a perfect example how the state should leave science for those in the know, and not leave to idiots who have the IQ of a cabbage. This is a glimpse how or why the public is still MOSTLY stupid about anything regarding COVID, and some are actually in charge of 'informing' the public at large.

So I did received the call, and the lady left a message for me to call back. I finished my morning chore (patio gardening), picked up the phone, and dialed the # and extension for Melissa.

~I'll cut through the chase a bit. The overview was, the clinic I went to apparently reports all 'detectable' results for COVID-19 and passes on the person's contact information I filled out when I got tested. I wasn't notified of this fact. Folks who tested 'undetectable', like wifey, are spared the intrusion ~

She started by pulling out a preset lines of silly questions. Right off the bat, it's batty! So I said that maybe I can make things easier and tell her all the vital information she needs to get from the interview. She agreed. So went off...

I said:
1. The first day I felt a symptom - which was coughing - happened on July 28th. No other symptom felt. I decided to immediately isolate the very day.
2. I spoke with my wife and we decided to conduct household protocol at home. We have 3 bedrooms, and I immediately prepared one for me to use.
3. Loss of smell/taste followed right after, and the feeling of fatigue pervade the following mornings. No other symptoms felt. Coughing stopped within 24 hours after it started.
4. First time I felt a rise in body temp was July 30-31st, for a good 4-6 hours starting shortly before midnight. The highest recorded temp was 97.7 degrees. I never felt fever after that night again.
5. Monday, Aug. 2 was when I went to get tested. Confirmed COVID early the following day via email. Contacted my doctor within the hour AFTER receiving confirmation. Doctor sent back canned response with information I already knew, and had been administering.
6. Yes, contacted people I was around with 2 days prior to my first 'symptoms', and advised them of my condition within 3 days despite the lack of confirmation of my infection, but have more than ample reason to believe I contracted the virus. Everyone, including my wife, tested negative.
7. My idiotic brother and his wife never did get tested even after they got back home. Despite my brother arriving coughing, sneezing and not feeling too 'giddy', he insist it can't possibly be from him because 'he's been vaccinated'. In the meantime, even his wife, started to develop symptoms.
8. The first 5 days of infection is the most crucial phase because this is the period an infected person is at the MOST contagious state. This is when you are virally shedding at the most intense time.

...then the lady on the phone started asking question/s mostly irrelevant to MY situation. Such as wifey's personal contact information. I rejected that silly idea and cited irrelevant as she tested negative. Asked for my annual salary. Irrelevant. Asked what race I am - irrelevant. I'm an American, while not a race, enough of a response to the question. Then proceeded to ask gender identification questions: Responded 'next question' to the next 7 questions.

In short, this is what she summarized from the data I gave her:

She said: "LA County will be sending you a letter affirming what you (me) need to do, which will be as she would also be telling me on the phone. Due to the result of my test, she recommends I quarantine for the next 14 days!. I said: 'Excuse me! W-T-heck am I gonna quarantine for the next 14 days for? She said because I tested positive!!! She went on talking over my objection, until after I said for her to stop. I asked her if she had any idea what the COVID protocol after first sign of infection. I said it's a 'yes or no' question. She didn't answer, instead she apparently saw when I was tested, and retracted to tell me I actually only need to quarantine for about 7 more days.

Unbelievable.

When you have an idiot given a modicum of authority like this one, it is little wonder why the public are either as confused, or as stupid our society had become. We are definitely ripe for fake news (see above).

I told her to better get herself educated before engaging another unsuspecting person with the same IQ she does. I told her she's a disgrace, the County is a disgrace, for allowing uninformed people like her loose to reach out to the public.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2021, 03:20:20 PM

I'm here, feeling like a stud bull. Unscathed by the fake news being thrashed around by the likes of you. 


One would think after a deluge of fake news, especially the past 5-6 years, folks would at least be skeptical, but...it is times like these we are reminded why such proposition like Calif. Prop 47 actually gets passed in ballot elections...
I'm not sure what a stud bull feels like but probably pretty good then.  One of the luckier ones it seems. 

Which fake news is being thrashed around by me exactly?   

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2021, 01:19:43 AM
It would be interesting to see what would have happened, if there were a way to run an accurate simulation of what would have happened had the US done nothing to mitigate the virus in any way and the vaccine wasn't around.  The number might have easily been in the millions if not 10's of millions.  It is very hard to say.  This world is obviously a cruel unforgiving place in situations like this. 

Fathertime!

Indeed, here is yet another story of one poor guy who has lost both of his parents and his brother all about the same time to the virus, again they refused the vaccine. I can only imagine what a depressing world it has left him and hope it does not happen to me, all my close family have had the vaccine so hopefully will be ok.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/chefs-parents-and-brother-die-from-covid-within-week-after-jab-refusal

I'm not sure how long the vaccine lasts for, I had the AZ vaccine but in Israel the Pfizer vaccine was dominant. I could have had Pfizer but chose to pass on it and to date am glad I did in favour of the AZ vaccine. Anyway, out in Israel its looking like the vaccine loses its effectiveness after about five months or so and they are revaccinating the elderly. Latest reports are that they are not sure if a third vaccine helps anymore but more time is needed to see as some may have already had the virus before their third vaccine shot. The vaccine was of course developed for the original Coronavirus as they all are at present.

Possibly I might even see if I can get a third jab of the AZ vaccine done privately possibly around October if it keeps me out of hospital. My mother will likely get a free one on the NHS possibly with her Flu jab as she's elderly.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 10, 2021, 06:31:36 AM
Possibly I might even see if I can get a third jab of the AZ vaccine done privately possibly around October if it keeps me out of hospital.

I’ve no doubt this will be too deep to get through. Strain mutation and why explained. Anyone for a Delta?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/
US National Institute of Health, 2015 Summarial Abstract.

Quote
There is a theoretical expectation that some types of vaccines could prompt the evolution of more virulent (“hotter”) pathogens. This idea follows from the notion that natural selection removes pathogen strains that are so “hot” that they kill their hosts and, therefore, themselves. Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur. This type of vaccine is often called a leaky vaccine. When vaccines prevent transmission, as is the case for nearly all vaccines used in humans, this type of evolution towards increased virulence is blocked. But when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2021, 06:13:36 AM
I’ve no doubt this will be too deep to get through. Strain mutation and why explained. Anyone for a Delta?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/
US National Institute of Health, 2015 Summarial Abstract.

That is indeed an interesting article GQ, I've seen a headline around about the vaccine may have prompted the variants. I've taken a brief extract from the article you linked to here as a brief take away:


"Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts.

Author Summary
There is a theoretical expectation that some types of vaccines could prompt the evolution of more virulent (“hotter”) pathogens. This idea follows from the notion that natural selection removes pathogen strains that are so “hot” that they kill their hosts and, therefore, themselves. Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur."



So interesting of true and I guess medical science will likely find out as a result of this Coronavirus. This is really the first time we have been able to track the development of a virus so closely, Ebola, Sars, etc gave a brief insight but I think this is the first time medical science has been up to tracking the development of a virus in such detail and on such a large scale. Should civilization survive this virus then it will no doubt be enormously valueable to future generations.

So by this studies findings if correct some of those that survived the original Coronavirus through vaccination have helped the vaccine mutate into a worse variant while carrying it as otherwise they should have died of with the virus dying with them instead of mutating. Hence swapping deaths in the vaccinated to the unvaccinated groups. That suits me fine as I've been vaccinated so hence likely at less risk :D That means someone who chose not to get vaccinated is more likely to die in my stead. That seems fairer to me as everyone (at least in the US & UK) had the option of whether to take up the vaccine or not. So if I am able to get another vaccine done privately in October/November then it won't be a bad news day for me I presume.

I'm personally not so sure as to this studies findings though. There was evident of early mutations shortly after the outset of this virus before we had developed vaccines. Then the later Delta variant seems to have first occurred in India wher very few of the population were vaccinated. It could still be possible amoung the very few that were vaccinated there as the virus had gone up so much but I'm not so sure. Even here in the UK the Kent variant that was circulating up to Christmas & New year's Day in big numbers so forcing another lockdown on New Year's Day was before the UK's mass vaccination program took place. A few elderly etc in hospital's might have had the Pfizer vaccine in December but again the numbers were so small that while possible the odds are slight. Possibly it may have done but it would be a very direct reaction of the vaccine & the virus being present in a very few number of people thus an immediate response from the virus at the outset.

At the moment now new vaccine variant has been developed for use so assuming this stay the case I would just be having a top up of the original virus vaccine. So if the study is correct that won't likely produce any more dangerous variants only a vaccine to deal with the variants will do that.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2021, 06:26:50 AM
News interviews with the wife of the solicitor who died of the virus recently who had refused the jab:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-devastated-familys-plea-after-death-of-lawyer-who-refused-to-get-coronavirus-vaccine-12377315


BBC News - Covid vaccine refuser died after terrible mistake, says partner
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-58080116
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2021, 07:13:53 AM
Another case here of a anti-vaxxer passing on:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9867589/amp/Anti-vaxxer-club-boss-56-dies-Covid-mocking-people-getting-experimental-vaccine.html

Hope you get well GQ ;)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 11, 2021, 07:22:45 AM
That is indeed an interesting article GQ, I've seen a headline around about the vaccine may have prompted the variants. I've taken a brief extract from the article you linked to here as a brief take away:

"Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts.

The same would apply to influenza vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 11, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
Hope you get well GQ ;)


Apparently I'll be fine. I'm from La-La Land, so I'm *sophisticated*. That's the new scientific progressive breakthrough!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AGon5POuVw


I think though, vaccinated people ought to be shot on sight for making the virus more potent for all the non-sheeple.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2021, 03:24:00 PM

Apparently I'll be fine. I'm from La-La Land, so I'm *sophisticated*. That's the new scientific progressive breakthrough!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AGon5POuVw


I think though, vaccinated people ought to be shot on sight for making the virus more potent for all the non-sheeple.

Good to hear :)

Sheeple, lol. I made an individual thought through judgement to have the AZ jab, I could have had the Pfizer jab but along with BillyB's input made the individual decision to pass on that one. To date I am glad I had the AZ vaccine particularly considering the stories above.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 12, 2021, 05:40:46 AM
Good to hear :)

Sheeple, lol. I made an individual thought through judgement to have the AZ jab, I could have had the Pfizer jab but along with BillyB's input made the individual decision to pass on that one. To date I am glad I had the AZ vaccine particularly considering the stories above.

Is AZ approved? I knew this will go over your heads. A very viable reason it is an experimental soup!

Quote
Infectious agents can rapidly evolve in response to health interventions [1]. Here, we ask whether pathogen adaptation to vaccinated hosts can result in the evolution of more virulent pathogens (defined here to mean those that cause more or faster mortality in unvaccinated hosts).

Vaccination could prompt the evolution of more virulent pathogens in the following way. It is usually assumed that the primary force preventing the evolutionary emergence of more virulent strains is that they kill their hosts and, therefore, truncate their own infectious periods. If so, keeping hosts alive with vaccines that reduce disease but do not prevent infection, replication, and transmission (so-called “imperfect” vaccines) could allow more virulent strains to circulate. Natural selection will even favour their circulation if virulent strains have a higher transmission in the absence of host death or are better able to overcome host immunity. Thus, life-saving vaccines have the potential to increase mean disease virulence of a pathogen population (as assayed in unvaccinated hosts) [2–4].

The plausibility of this idea (hereafter called the “imperfect-vaccine hypothesis”) has been confirmed with mathematical models [2,5–9]. Efficacy and mode of action are key. If the vaccine is sterilizing, so that transmission is stopped, no evolution can occur. But if it is non-sterilizing, so that naturally acquired pathogens can transmit from immunized individuals (what we hereafter call a “leaky” vaccine), virulent strains will be able to circulate in situations in which natural selection would have once removed them [2].
Thus, anti-disease vaccines (those reducing in-host replication or pathogenicity) have the potential to generate evolution harmful to human and animal well-being; infection- or transmission-blocking vaccines do not [2–9]. Note that the possibility of vaccine-driven virulence evolution is conceptually distinct from vaccine-driven epitope evolution (antigenic escape), in which variants of target antigens evolve because they enable pathogens that are otherwise less fit to evade vaccine-induced immunity. The evolution of escape variants has been frequently observed [4,10].

The imperfect-vaccine hypothesis attracted controversy [11–14], not least because human vaccines have apparently not caused an increase in the virulence of their target pathogens. But most human vaccines are sterilizing (transmission-blocking) or not in widespread use or only recently introduced [4]. Moreover, unambiguous comparisons of strain virulence and the impact of vaccination on transmission require experimental infections in the natural host—clearly impossible for human diseases.

The virus survivability rate was over 2%, mortality rate was at less than two-tenths of 1%. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2021, 06:13:00 AM
Is AZ approved? I knew this will go over your heads. A very viable reason it is an experimental soup!

The virus survivability rate was over 2%, mortality rate was at less than two-tenths of 1%.

All the vaccines have been approved for use by respective governments but they remain experimental vaccines. The AZ and Johnson & Johnson vaccines use the old tried & method. To my mind that meant that they might potentially be the safer bet over Pfizer, Moderna, etc that are mRNA. No guarantees as it was rushed through a little but seemed the less risky option to me as after all it's just dead bits of virus si supposedly sound method (we hope). I chose to place my bets there rather than risk going up against this virus unvaccinated. The danger of the virus obviously very bad to both myself & family members so I placed being unvaccinated at likely a higher risk than using the experimental AZ vaccine. Like I say no guarantees but to date I've had no virus problem of note and no bad comeback from using the AZ vaccine. Odds are I won't or it would have likely emerged by now and as a tried & tested method seems to have worked fine. My guess is that from what we are seeing of unvaccinated people mortality rate would have shot up way high especially if no lockdown, look at how it went in India, our hospitals would have been overwhelmed.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2021, 06:22:16 AM
Present concerns of the EU over the mRNA vaccines:

http://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-drugs-regulator-looking-new-possible-side-effects-mrna-vaccines-2021-08-11/

A case of take your pick and place your bets I feel but I agree with BillyB that there is no reason to take a mRNA vaccine when it has not been tried & tested while the traditional method has. Don't know if Billy took the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the end?

Personally I would rather risk the AZ or J&J vaccine than end up like the solicitor in the news article above. He badly miscalculated in his research I feel and paid with his life.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 12, 2021, 06:22:36 AM
Note: typo above. Survivability rate at 98%

All the vaccines have been approved for use by respective governments but they remain experimental vaccines. The AZ and Johnson & Johnson vaccines use the old tried & method. To my mind that meant that they might potentially be the safer bet over Pfizer, Moderna, etc that are mRNA. No guarantees as it was rushed through a little but seemed the less risky option to me as after all it's just dead bits of virus si supposedly sound method (we hope). I chose to place my bets there rather than risk going up against this virus unvaccinated. The danger of the virus obviously very bad to both myself & family members so I placed being unvaccinated at likely a higher risk than using the experimental AZ vaccine. Like I say no guarantees but to date I've had no virus problem of note and no bad comeback from using the AZ vaccine. Odds are I won't or it would have likely emerged by now and as a tried & tested method seems to have worked fine. My guess is that from what we are seeing of unvaccinated people mortality rate would have shot up way high especially if no lockdown, look at how it went in India, our hospitals would have been overwhelmed.

No. None of them are approved. They are all still at experimental stages. They are only authorized for emergency utilization. There’s a difference. They’ll keep experimenting which they will label ‘boosters’.

Do you honestly believe vaccinated folks cannot be infected and thereby spread the disease? Think man.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 12, 2021, 10:44:28 AM
Do you honestly believe vaccinated folks cannot be infected and thereby spread the disease? Think man.

Sure they can, just like it can happen if you get a flu shot.

It's not all about just transmission, but reducing hospitalizations and death as well.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 12, 2021, 11:02:46 AM
Sure they can, just like it can happen if you get a flu shot.

It's not all about just transmission, but reducing hospitalizations and death as well.

How the heck did you figure that if the leaky vaccine only make this pathogen even more virulent & potent, which by deduction, is spread by those who got vaccinated?

Asymptomatic cases were overwhelmingly keeping mortality rate of this virus at bay. Killing only the old, weak and unhealthy within the population. Now the virus had mutated to become more potent and virulent than what it was, and had started to kill indiscriminately..


You fully subscribed to the hype, BC. Now they have this silly vaccination passport as though vaccinated folks are immune and exempt from being super spreaders, which is a complete BS.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 12, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
How the heck did you figure that if the leaky vaccine only make this pathogen even more virulent & potent, which by deduction, is spread by those who got vaccinated?

Quote
Q: If a person has received the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, will the vaccine protect against transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from individuals who are infected despite vaccination?
A: Most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce transmission of the virus that causes the disease by those who are vaccinated. While it is hoped this will be the case, the scientific community does not yet know if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine will reduce such transmission.

http://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions

Variants can be produced and transmitted whether vaccinated or not.  To date, no variant of interest or concern has been attributed to vaccinations.  There are thousands of variants.

Quote
Asymptomatic cases were overwhelmingly keeping mortality rate of this virus at bay. Killing only the old, weak and unhealthy within the population. Now the virus had mutated to become more potent and virulent than what it was, and had started to kill indiscriminately..

The delta variant is much more transmissible, and indications are that severe cases can have worse outcomes - mainly among those that have been vaccinated.

Quote
You fully subscribed to the hype, BC. Now they have this silly vaccination passport as though vaccinated folks are immune and exempt from being super spreaders, which is a complete BS.

Who says vaccinated folks are fully immune?  Maybe you are misinformed?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 12, 2021, 11:56:41 AM
http://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions (http://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions)

Variants can be produced and transmitted whether vaccinated or not.  To date, no variant of interest or concern has been attributed to vaccinations.  There are thousands of variants.


A whole lot of words that basically said 'zip'. Nor have they have proof it can be attributed to the unvaccinated either. Yet this administration have gone as far as attempt to silence anti-vaxxer sentiments.

Quote
The delta variant is much more transmissible, and indications are that severe cases can have worse outcomes - mainly among those that have been vaccinated.

Quote
Who says vaccinated folks are fully immune?  Maybe you are misinformed?


Said? When you discriminate one from the other, nothing need be 'said'. They had started with 'government' employees today, tomorrow....
http://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/us-health-department-mandates-covid-vaccine-shots-for-its-25000-employees.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/us-health-department-mandates-covid-vaccine-shots-for-its-25000-employees.html)

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 12, 2021, 12:09:58 PM

A whole lot of words that basically said 'zip'. Nor have they have proof it can be attributed to the unvaccinated either. Yet this administration have gone as far as attempt to silence anti-vaxxer sentiments.

Well the Delta variant did pre-date vaccinations, aside, if the variant was related to a vaccine, they would not be as effective as they are.  Best to come back on this when a variant is able, in very large part, to circumvent vaccines, or a particular vaccine.  More info here http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N2NL1M2

What the administration does or doesn't is irrelevant regarding variants.  ANY transmission can increase the chances of variants. 

Quote
Said? When you discriminate one from the other, nothing need be 'said'. They had started with 'government' employees today, tomorrow....
http://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/us-health-department-mandates-covid-vaccine-shots-for-its-25000-employees.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/us-health-department-mandates-covid-vaccine-shots-for-its-25000-employees.html)


Guess that's a POV thing.  Are you affected by any mandates?  Any skin in the game?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2021, 12:21:38 PM
How the heck did you figure that if the leaky vaccine only make this pathogen even more virulent & potent, which by deduction, is spread by those who got vaccinated?

That's not been proven at present, it's just a theory some have had. At the outset of this virus we were told from various sources that it could likely mutate. There's no proof to date that the vaccines caused the virus to mutate or become more virulent. In many cases the virus seemed to be mutating either possibly before the vaccine came into circulation or at a point when very few people had been vaccinated. At the moment without any concrete proof that it has made the Coronavirus worse it's just another conspiracy theory being flung around without any real evidence as yet to underpin it holding any weight. We're just going to have to see how things go in the next few months to see if it sounds out at all. At the moment the tracks have already been laid so no point complaining about something that can't now be undone.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 12, 2021, 12:53:15 PM
Well the Delta variant did pre-date vaccinations, aside, if the variant was related to a vaccine, they would not be as effective as they are.  Best to come back on this when a variant is able, in very large part, to circumvent vaccines, or a particular vaccine.  More info here http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N2NL1M2 (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N2NL1M2)

What the administration does or doesn't is irrelevant regarding variants.  ANY transmission can increase the chances of variants. 

Guess that's a POV thing.  Are you affected by any mandates?  Any skin in the game?


LMAO. POV? Any skin in the game? Here's our moronic governor:

The state’s new requirement will also apply to about 2.2 million health care workers in public and private settings. Those in higher-risk health care facilities who remain unvaccinated will have to undergo testing twice a week and will be advised to wear N95 masks.
Too many people have chosen to live with this virus," California Gov. Gavin Newsom said at a news conference Monday in Oakland. "We’re at a point in the epidemic, this pandemic, where choice, individual choice not to get vaccinated, is now impacting the rest of us in profound and devastating and deadly ways.

Now *impacting the rest of 'them' in profound and devastating and deadly ways?* By deduction, those vaccinated need not wear mask, be tested twice/week because, for whatever moronic ides this liberal idiot is basing his moronic statement from, vaccinated folks are *immune* in acquiring/spreading this mutated virus borne out of the leaky vaccine.

That's not been proven at present, it's just a theory some have had. At the outset of this virus we were told from various sources that it could likely mutate. There's no proof to date that the vaccines caused the virus to mutate or become more virulent. In many cases the virus seemed to be mutating either possibly before the vaccine came into circulation or at a point when very few people had been vaccinated. At the moment without any concrete proof that it has made the Coronavirus worse it's just another conspiracy theory being flung around without any real evidence as yet to underpin it holding any weight. We're just going to have to see how things go in the next few months to see if it sounds out at all. At the moment the tracks have already been laid so no point complaining about something that can't now be undone.

Well, that's an awful mouthful from someone who blindly subscribed to an unapproved experimental soup. Speaking in forked tongue, TC?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 12, 2021, 01:52:25 PM

LMAO. POV? Any skin in the game? Here's our moronic governor:

The state’s new requirement will also apply to about 2.2 million health care workers in public and private settings. Those in higher-risk health care facilities who remain unvaccinated will have to undergo testing twice a week and will be advised to wear N95 masks.
Too many people have chosen to live with this virus," California Gov. Gavin Newsom said at a news conference Monday in Oakland. "We’re at a point in the epidemic, this pandemic, where choice, individual choice not to get vaccinated, is now impacting the rest of us in profound and devastating and deadly ways.

By skin in the game, if you were a health worker or other party that is directly affected by the mandates.

Quote
Now *impacting the rest of 'them' in profound and devastating and deadly ways?* By deduction, those vaccinated need not wear mask, be tested twice/week because, for whatever moronic ides this liberal idiot is basing his moronic statement from, vaccinated folks are *immune* in acquiring/spreading this mutated virus borne out of the leaky vaccine.

Of course, even vaccinated folks should be wearing masks in crowded or inside public areas to prevent infecting others, even if asymptomatic.

I'm vaccinated, but had to get a test anyway to fly tomorrow.  I have no problem doing this.  This should also be mandated for domestic flights.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 12, 2021, 04:15:15 PM
My old pops (Near 101 years old) is in assisted living.  I often barge past the front desk, but today they told me after today I can no longer visit without the dreaded vaccine.    I've been contemplating getting the vaccine over the past month or so.  My buddy who came in sick a few weeks ago apparently was near death last I was told, although appears to have already hit bottom.    Most of the respected people seem to believe the vaccine is the best of the options.   I'd like to hold out until a vaccine is created for the Delta strain, although it may not be a good choice to wait that long. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2021, 10:42:33 PM
My old pops (Near 101 years old) is in assisted living.  I often barge past the front desk, but today they told me after today I can no longer visit without the dreaded vaccine.    I've been contemplating getting the vaccine over the past month or so.  My buddy who came in sick a few weeks ago apparently was near death last I was told, although appears to have already hit bottom.    Most of the respected people seem to believe the vaccine is the best of the options.   I'd like to hold out until a vaccine is created for the Delta strain, although it may not be a good choice to wait that long. 

Fathertime!

Wow, 100 is indeed an impressive age for your father to reach FT, not many people do that. Well when the variants begun coming out at the beginning of this year there was a lot of talk of a jab to deal with the variants coming out any time between August & the winter months. Now though it appears to have gone silent on that, not sure why. All we hear of here is a jab for the elderly of the same vaccines developed for the original virus. It looks like they are going to mix the vaccines to try to get better protection. The UK have mostly the AZ vaccine to most of the elderly and population in general. Now they have ordered a load more of the Pfizer vaccine to jab the elderly with even though it is more expensive, moreso as they have recently raised its price from $18 to $22 per shot for large scale government orders. Myself I won't touch the Pfizer vaccine or any mRNA vaccine. It's my mother's choice though for herself and at her age in her mid seventies she's probably not going to have the concerns younger people might have.

I've noticed the graph with virus infections very much on the up in the US so I wouldn't hold on for a jab to deal specifically with the variants FT. That could be a very dangerous thing to do as the virus could get you before then. Possibly you could do an anti body test to test if you have had it. I'm surprised you didn't catch it of that guy that came into your shop coughing & spluttering. Possibly you did but might be asymptomatic. Anyway my guess is that they'll let the variants run its course and by then they probably hope won't need to use a variant vaccine. Possibly with all the different variants there are too many as different mutations so each would require a different vaccine mix. Possibly they could be mixed all in one but likely longer job/more money. So if you had one for the Delta variant then another variant took its place, Alpha or whatever then you would get less protection against that variant unless the vaccine had in its mix solution to deal with all present variants of course. So I wouldn't linger I would try to go for the AZ or J&J vaccine now if I were you but your choice.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 13, 2021, 05:22:00 AM
LMAO!

http://m.facebook.com/WorldNewsTonight/videos/fda-to-authorize-3rd-shot-for-immunocompromised-people/148272594027721/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

Now it’s gotten hotter it is starting to ‘kill children’. Imagine that. A full year of the virus and kids were untouchable, and here we are!

Boosters, baby!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 13, 2021, 06:12:29 AM
By skin in the game, if you were a health worker or other party that is directly affected by the mandates.

The point in this mess they created is, we are at a critical point to stop playing politics and get everyone educated, especially the politicians, instead of these endless scare tactics upon the public constantly played over something as ineffective as this leaky vaccine. If this vaccine is as good as advertise, it would’ve long been approved. Far from it. If anything it’s getting hotter.

Making stupid mandate exempting one from the other tells people a blatant lie that if you’re vaccinated, you’re immune and safe from being a spreader. No, you simply became a walking killer on the loose permitted everywhere, locked and loaded.

My stupid brother, who brought covid into my home is so convinced he can’t possibly be infected because he’s vaccinated despite even witnessing his wife started coughing for 2 weeks. I got covid from him and fared better than him and his wife. Yet he feels he need not be tested, thus not notify everyone they’ve been in close contact with since he began showing symptoms.


Here is another perfect example of this that happened in LA a short while ago. MSM won't cover it, but I guarantee you, just like my bro, this is much more prevalent than what the public knows and understand. I strongly usher you to read it. Let's stop freaking kidding ourselves.

  http://www.pastemagazine.com/comedy/covid/covid-and-the-la-comedy-scene/ (http://www.pastemagazine.com/comedy/covid/covid-and-the-la-comedy-scene/)

The LA County idiot who called me is even more uneducated about which she was supposed to be an authority on. Politicians and the media are again in a frenzy politicizing this virus all over again.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter really. It’s the stupid world we’re forced to live in. Maybe just as well. Have a safe and enjoyable flight.
Title: Covid vaccines save lives and limit hospitalization
Post by: ML on August 13, 2021, 07:13:27 AM
Break through cases do happen (vaccinated people getting covid).
This should not be surprising given that the vaccines have always known to be 85-93 percent or so effective.

But what is more important is what happens to the people who experience break through cases.

Recent analysis gave data for mid-June to early-July for Ohio and Virginia.

In Ohio, breakthrough cases accounted for 0.2% of hospitalizations
and 0.5% of deaths. In Virginia, they made up 0.3% of
hospitalizations and 1.7% of deaths (but still only 42 breakthrough
infection deaths).

To put that in perspective, unvaccinated people are 135 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID in Ohio (155 times in Virginia) and 59 times more likely to die from it in Ohio (23 times in Virginia).

The COVID-19 vaccines are effective and save lives.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 13, 2021, 08:41:12 AM
Have any of you actually heard the result of the investigation regarding the lab leak? I bet not very many.

Suppression of factual data, maybe concealing pertinent data, etc...had been a very common and blatant exercise both by the media and the current political landscape. We've witness this just this past 5 years.

If the vaccine is as effective as they say it is, booster shots shouldn't be necessary, and approval should've been long handed out. Reality says otherwise. This is a leaky vaccine.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on August 13, 2021, 10:21:38 AM
When I drive to the store, I put on my seat belt.  This small, simple act does not
guarantee my survival
in the event of an accident, but can greatly increase
my chances of surviving
.

I only drive my car while carrying a frozen salmon in my lap,
because the odds of being in a wreck with a frozen salmon in
your lap are astronomical. 

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 13, 2021, 12:24:48 PM
There you go...

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says (nature.com) (http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1)

You feel you need to get vaccinated, make sure that you do. I'm neither an opponent or proponent of this leaky vaccine. This should be an individual's decision. What I am against is this stupid narrative promoting vaccination by making a separation between those that are from those that are not, giving vaccinated folks this stupid belief that cannot get infected, and thus spread it. Vaccinated or not, you will contract COVID and go through the very same viral shedding.

If you are immune compromised, black lunged (smoker), obese/overweight, diabetic, etc...get as many layer of protection to protect yourself. Just don't be so deluded that if you contract this virus, and you meet the known compromised state noted above, there's a darn good chance you're dead by Tuesday.

And if the study is true, leaky vaccines is definitely making this pathogen much more virulent and lethal for all of us.

Vaccinated or not, you feel any type of symptoms, more than probable you've been virally shedding up to 48 hours prior you feeling the symptom. Initiate immediate contact tracing and notification of people in your circle. Quit being a silly liberal and believe you're immune to the virus simply because you got vaccinated. That is now a known myth, and politicians continue to give everyone a false sense of security.

Hundreds of thousands of untested illegal immigrants crossed our border, and tens of thousands let loose in our country. Why is the media absent in reporting this actual event? Politics.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on August 13, 2021, 04:59:50 PM
I only drive my car while carrying a frozen salmon in my lap,
because the odds of being in a wreck with a frozen salmon in
your lap are astronomical.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2021, 04:18:09 AM
LMAO!

http://m.facebook.com/WorldNewsTonight/videos/fda-to-authorize-3rd-shot-for-immunocompromised-people/148272594027721/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

Now it’s gotten hotter it is starting to ‘kill children’. Imagine that. A full year of the virus and kids were untouchable, and here we are!

Boosters, baby!

GQ even the original virus was potentially life threatening to those with underlying health conditions of all ages, most notably the elderly but also those much younger. If you recall even a few children past away from the original virus dispelling the myth up to that date that they weren't affected by the Coronavirus.

If a person has had their immune system compromised by liver, kidney transplants, etc then even with two doses of the vaccine they are still going to be very vulnerable to the virus. A third shot of the vaccine may or may not help much but it is a they have got left to try.

Most children will be fine though with normal immune systems but it helps stop the spread of they have the vaccine and potentially reduce symptoms they might otherwise suffer from.

Anyhow from the report it looks like things are really starting to fall apart in some places in the US now. The report says some hospitals are at breaking point and look set to fall apart in a week or so if present rate continues. Looking at the Coronavirus infection graph for the US it looks like it will do so, it's going up a lot a combination of the Delta variant and not enough vaccinations I guess.

Here in the UK we are continuing to trudge through the Delta variant, infections have gone back up a little. Deaths are around 100 per day rough average. Doesn't look like it's running out of steam here any time soon so just a question of how long it will go on for. My guess is it will continue throughout August and into September. Kids will likely get vaccinated in school this September. Winter will then be coming up so will have to see if it is still ongoing into winter with a possible upsurge in Flu, Pneumonia, Norovirus, etc.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on August 14, 2021, 05:31:28 AM
GQ even the original virus was potentially life threatening to those with underlying health conditions of all ages, most notably the elderly but also those much younger. If you recall even a few children past away from the original virus dispelling the myth up to that date that they weren't affected by the Coronavirus.

If a person has had their immune system compromised by liver, kidney transplants, etc then even with two doses of the vaccine they are still going to be very vulnerable to the virus. A third shot of the vaccine may or may not help much but it is a they have got left to try.

Most children will be fine though with normal immune systems but it helps stop the spread of they have the vaccine and potentially reduce symptoms they might otherwise suffer from.

Anyhow from the report it looks like things are really starting to fall apart in some places in the US now. The report says some hospitals are at breaking point and look set to fall apart in a week or so if present rate continues. Looking at the Coronavirus infection graph for the US it looks like it will do so, it's going up a lot a combination of the Delta variant and not enough vaccinations I guess.

Here in the UK we are continuing to trudge through the Delta variant, infections have gone back up a little. Deaths are around 100 per day rough average. Doesn't look like it's running out of steam here any time soon so just a question of how long it will go on for. My guess is it will continue throughout August and into September. Kids will likely get vaccinated in school this September. Winter will then be coming up so will have to see if it is still ongoing into winter with a possible upsurge in Flu, Pneumonia, Norovirus, etc.

Trench like so many other subjects you pontificate on this board, you just don't "get it". Each of us were born with an immune system that has the ability to fight and dispel most if not all viruses and variants the body may encounter. Some of us have compromised immune systems that may not fight the virus as efficiently and thus severe illness and death could result. The percentage of us in that category is .02% worldwide. Herd immunity not vaccinations are the avenue to putting this virus down as history has proven. As we are seeing now and as we have seen through the years with regular flu shots, variants happen as the virus fights for it's life. Also proven is that mutation variants are weaker, not stronger.

You should question "why" the virus, this virus more specifically is present at all. It is man made, it did not jump to humans from a Wuhan wet market or a bat cave 1000 miles from there. The plandemic is man made. The data is highly manipulated. It has been since the first lock downs and now has shifted into over drive with the "delta variant". The same people responsible for the plandemic, manipulating the data and pushing this agenda will always have another variant to draw on. The science has also been manipulated for fear. It is working beautifully as sheeple of the world continue to follow the plandemic and get more jabs.

If you in fact did your research and you "followed the science" would would not have ever received your first jab. As you did, now you will be in line for every subsequent jab they wish to inject you with. It will be necessary for you to survive. You, I and everybody has anti-bodies in our immune system. Do you know the difference in specific and non-specific anti-bodies?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2021, 07:01:18 AM
Trench like so many other subjects you pontificate on this board, you just don't "get it". Each of us were born with an immune system that has the ability to fight and dispel most if not all viruses and variants the body may encounter. Some of us have compromised immune systems that may not fight the virus as efficiently and thus severe illness and death could result. The percentage of us in that category is .02% worldwide. Herd immunity not vaccinations are the avenue to putting this virus down as history has proven. As we are seeing now and as we have seen through the years with regular flu shots, variants happen as the virus fights for it's life. Also proven is that mutation variants are weaker, not stronger.

You should question "why" the virus, this virus more specifically is present at all. It is man made, it did not jump to humans from a Wuhan wet market or a bat cave 1000 miles from there. The plandemic is man made. The data is highly manipulated. It has been since the first lock downs and now has shifted into over drive with the "delta variant". The same people responsible for the plandemic, manipulating the data and pushing this agenda will always have another variant to draw on. The science has also been manipulated for fear. It is working beautifully as sheeple of the world continue to follow the plandemic and get more jabs.

If you in fact did your research and you "followed the science" would would not have ever received your first jab. As you did, now you will be in line for every subsequent jab they wish to inject you with. It will be necessary for you to survive. You, I and everybody has anti-bodies in our immune system. Do you know the difference in specific and non-specific anti-bodies?

Well relying on the immune system didn't work too well for that solicitor, the guy who lost his parents & brother, or the construction 'expert' who was obsessed with healthy diet and fitness did it? It failed them abysmally and made a great fool out of the Cambridge Uni educated solicitor. I'm quite happy to have had the jab and ignore all these conspiracy ramblings. The only ones that may have any weight are to be cautious of the mRNA vaccines & possibly the virus may have escaped from the Wuhan lab. All the rest are the result of Americans letting their conspiracy suspicions get the better of them as usual.

Now I could have chanced it and not got the jab. I either would have got the virus or missed it by chance - but for how long? Had I gotten the Delta variant without the jab there is a good chance I would have died. Many of those now dying in hospital haven't had the jab. I could choose whether or not to have any subsequent jabs to get of the vaccine train as it were and then see how I fair. Again though I'm not so bothered with being jabbed with a needle every so often. If that is all that is needed to keep me going in the meantime then it is no big deal to me.

I personally feel grateful to be in a society where quick & effective vaccinations can be had against such viruses. In India & Brazil they didn't fair too well without the vaccine. In Ukraine the virus looks like it may be starting to be on the up again as the more virulent Delta variant spreads. Their Vaccination program has been slow so they could be in for a time of it. Ask them what they would choose if they had the choice?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Grumpy on August 15, 2021, 10:43:03 AM
Vaccines save lives.

“People don’t remember the gains we’ve made,” McIntyre says.

“In the 19th century, the leading cause of death in children was infectious disease. People would have 10 children and might lose five of them. We lived with high rates of infant mortality,” she says.

As well as two world wars, Australians in the first half of the 20th century had a Spanish flu pandemic and a bubonic plague outbreak to contend with, along with numerous spot-fires of disease.

The lethal diseases that routinely beset the population – such as the choking diphtheria, the crippling polio, the wracking tetanus – made childhood precarious.

One in 30 children died from gastroenteritis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough and measles in 1911. In 1907, infectious diseases killed more than 300 people in every 100,000, according to data from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. By 2019, that number had dropped to around 10.

To modern parents, disease names like polio and smallpox and diphtheria have been relegated by vaccination to arcane words with no practical relevance. But while these cruel diseases no longer kill Australian children, experts say there may be a risk of lapsing into complacency.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/15/no-concept-of-how-awful-it-was-the-forgotten-world-of-pre-vaccine-childhood-in-australia 

Vaccines save lives.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 06:45:05 PM



According to worldometers, deaths are up and infections are skyrocketing in the middle of summer compared to last year when nobody was vaccinated. FDA says significant risks and benefits are unknown. Vaccines can't stop infections and can't stop COVID and it creates the variants that are prolonging the pandemic and possibly making it more dangerous. The vaccine program they've designed for us will never end since they're solution to this pandemic is to beat it with a vaccine that doesn't work. There has never been a vaccine made to defeat a coronavirus and there has never been an mRNA vaccine created and there still isn't.


These are some of the things I and my wife talk about. She is going to get a religious exemption from taking the vaccine but if the governor of our state says medical personnel must be vaccinated we're moving. Doesn't make sense because no patient is any safer since vaccinated people get infected and transmit disease as easy as those that are unvaccinated. If her medical exemption doesn't work, we have big decisions to make. We may move to a state that doesn't force people to inject experimental vaccines into their bodies.


As my wife studies for the state test, she's being offered RN jobs. She's an honor student and they are offering her $25,000 sign up bonuses. She's just beginning her career so I'm willing to give up mine and start over for her benefit. Government documents show reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed on vaccines. In the past botched vaccines caused 10's of thousands of babies to be born without limbs, brain, and heart damage. My wife wants healthy kids and she's not taking any chances with a vaccine that was rushed and is currently failing.


The government has successfully manipulated people's minds, including my mom's.


Me: "Mom, the governor is mandating vaccines for health care workers and I don't want my wife taking experimental vaccines so we may have to move to another state."


Mom: "You have no right to tell your wife what can and can't go into her body."


Me: "Mom, listen to yourself. I just told you the government wants to tell my wife what to put into her body and you aren't even angry at them. But I am responsible for my family's health."


I'm a stubborn guy. One of the reasons you guys aren't wearing masks, experiencing more lockdowns, more restrictions, and more mandates is because of people like me who call the government BS for what it is. Give the government what they want, they will continue to take. See the mass protests in Europe resisting the government over their vaccine and pandemic plans? That is a good thing. They are using this pandemic to strip freedoms from us forever. Big red flag which tells us about who they are.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on August 19, 2021, 07:14:13 PM


According to worldometers, deaths are up and infections are skyrocketing in the middle of summer compared to last year when nobody was vaccinated. FDA says significant risks and benefits are unknown. Vaccines can't stop infections and can't stop COVID and it creates the variants that are prolonging the pandemic and possibly making it more dangerous. The vaccine program they've designed for us will never end since they're solution to this pandemic is to beat it with a vaccine that doesn't work. There has never been a vaccine made to defeat a coronavirus and there has never been an mRNA vaccine created and there still isn't.


These are some of the things I and my wife talk about. She is going to get a religious exemption from taking the vaccine but if the governor of our state says medical personnel must be vaccinated we're moving. Doesn't make sense because no patient is any safer since vaccinated people get infected and transmit disease as easy as those that are unvaccinated. If her medical exemption doesn't work, we have big decisions to make. We may move to a state that doesn't force people to inject experimental vaccines into their bodies.


As my wife studies for the state test, she's being offered RN jobs. She's an honor student and they are offering her $25,000 sign up bonuses. She's just beginning her career so I'm willing to give up mine and start over for her benefit. Government documents show reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed on vaccines. In the past botched vaccines caused 10's of thousands of babies to be born without limbs, brain, and heart damage. My wife wants healthy kids and she's not taking any chances with a vaccine that was rushed and is currently failing.


The government has successfully manipulated people's minds, including my mom's.


Me: "Mom, the governor is mandating vaccines for health care workers and I don't want my wife taking experimental vaccines so we may have to move to another state."


Mom: "You have no right to tell your wife what can and can't go into her body."


Me: "Mom, listen to yourself. I just told you the government wants to tell my wife what to put into her body and you aren't even angry at them. But I am responsible for my family's health."


I'm a stubborn guy. One of the reasons you guys aren't wearing masks, experiencing more lockdowns, more restrictions, and more mandates is because of people like me who call the government BS for what it is. Give the government what they want, they will continue to take. See the mass protests in Europe resisting the government over their vaccine and pandemic plans? That is a good thing. They are using this pandemic to strip freedoms from us forever. Big red flag which tells us about who they are.

It may ultimately be a losing battle.  Maybe the coronavirus mutates into something very lethal.  Something that takes out the young and healthy as well as the elderly or obese.  There have been other events such as this in the history of humans.  I'm still not convinced there is a giant worldwide conspiracy to strip the world's population of their rights.  It seems the concerns are warranted, maybe not for the virus in it's current form, but in potential future or perhaps likely forms of the virus that are potentially more lethal.      Since I'm not convinced it is manmade, I don't blame leaders, scientists, spokespeople, etc etc.  Perhaps it is just 'the way it is', in this time of history. 

Fathertime!     
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: tfcrew on August 19, 2021, 07:44:21 PM
These are some of the things I and my wife talk about. She is going to get a religious exemption from taking the vaccine but if the governor of our state says medical personnel must be vaccinated we're moving. 
Never mind the Governor...the Biden Administration will ultimately decree such-----

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2021/08/06/502409/mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-health-care-workers-condition-medicare-medicaid-participation/

http://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-joe-biden-business-health-travel-a1670ffa08f1f2eab42c675d99f1d9ad

http://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-2e6189cd41068b1e0f643ee7e4bfbb92 

Then...where can you move to?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 20, 2021, 03:51:13 AM


According to worldometers, deaths are up and infections are skyrocketing in the middle of summer compared to last year when nobody was vaccinated. FDA says significant risks and benefits are unknown. Vaccines can't stop infections and can't stop COVID and it creates the variants that are prolonging the pandemic and possibly making it more dangerous. The vaccine program they've designed for us will never end since they're solution to this pandemic is to beat it with a vaccine that doesn't work. There has never been a vaccine made to defeat a coronavirus and there has never been an mRNA vaccine created and there still isn't.

For the upmpteenth time, the vaccines are working.

(http://i.postimg.cc/gj3J3Q2H/Screen-Shot-2021-08-19-at-7-02-05-PM.png)

http://www.wbay.com/2021/08/19/covid-19-wisconsin-dhs-compares-vaccinated-unvaccinated-case-numbers/

The difference is a number of mitigation requirements have been dropped, along with the Delta variant that is much more transmissible.


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These are some of the things I and my wife talk about. She is going to get a religious exemption from taking the vaccine but if the governor of our state says medical personnel must be vaccinated we're moving. Doesn't make sense because no patient is any safer since vaccinated people get infected and transmit disease as easy as those that are unvaccinated. If her medical exemption doesn't work, we have big decisions to make. We may move to a state that doesn't force people to inject experimental vaccines into their bodies.

IIRC a part of the immigration requirements for the US is a medical checkup along with vaccine requirements. http://www.uscis.gov/tools/designated-civil-surgeons/vaccination-requirements

Did your wife apply for a waiver due to religious reasons for these vaccines?  You do know that each vaccine has its risks and benefits?  You do know that some of the same side effects are reported with the required vaccinations as with COVID vaccines?  You do know that claiming a religious exemption would be lying?  You really want your wife to start her budding career with a lie, and that stating such and signing a form might well have future consequences?  Most employers do not tolerate false information on job application forms.

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As my wife studies for the state test, she's being offered RN jobs. She's an honor student and they are offering her $25,000 sign up bonuses. She's just beginning her career so I'm willing to give up mine and start over for her benefit. Government documents show reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed on vaccines. In the past botched vaccines caused 10's of thousands of babies to be born without limbs, brain, and heart damage. My wife wants healthy kids and she's not taking any chances with a vaccine that was rushed and is currently failing.

Your wife is being fed mis and disinformation. 


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The government has successfully manipulated people's minds, including my mom's.

No, BillyB.  You alone are attempting to manipulate your mom's mind.


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Me: "Mom, the governor is mandating vaccines for health care workers and I don't want my wife taking experimental vaccines so we may have to move to another state."


Mom: "You have no right to tell your wife what can and can't go into her body."


Me: "Mom, listen to yourself. I just told you the government wants to tell my wife what to put into her body and you aren't even angry at them. But I am responsible for my family's health."

You are imposing your will, on others, based on unsound information you gather from cherry-picked internet sources.  Learn to respect the decisions of others.  Your wife's career is more important than your political whims.  Quit using her as your pawn.  You are not going to move anywhere and you know it.

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I'm a stubborn guy. One of the reasons you guys aren't wearing masks, experiencing more lockdowns, more restrictions, and more mandates is because of people like me who call the government BS for what it is. Give the government what they want, they will continue to take. See the mass protests in Europe resisting the government over their vaccine and pandemic plans? That is a good thing. They are using this pandemic to strip freedoms from us forever. Big red flag which tells us about who they are.

That you are stubborn is not in doubt.  The government  and businesses are going to act without your permission and impose measures they deem fit.  If your wife wants to work for company X, and they require vaccinations, she'll just have to get vaccinated.  That simple.  It is their right to do so, and your wife's right to do as she wishes.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 20, 2021, 08:46:55 AM



BC, I supplied government documents saying the significant risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown and certain studies aren't completed and the vaccines are not approved for use on humans but it has emergency use authorization. I posted videos of leading vaccine experts that tell us why all coronavirus vaccines failed in the past and why the current ones are dangerous. They seen a lot of injured and dead lab animals to know what they are talking about. I posted worldometers data showing we are having an outbreak of a respiratory disease in the middle of summer. This doesn't happen with raspatory diseases. The vaccines made it much worse this year compared to last when nobody was vaccinated. The vaccines are turning us into human petri dishes creating more variants, more problems and prolonging this pandemic. I'd like to debate you more on this but management asked me to cut back so I won't be able to get into a vigorous debate with you. Go back to my old posts to find all the expert testimony or government fact sheets or you can keep trusting government doctors who are controlled by politicians who a bought by big pharma telling us the vaccines are safe and effective on television commercials. They are denying us informed consent so we must inform ourselves before consenting.




Never mind the Governor...the Biden Administration will ultimately decree such-----

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2021/08/06/502409/mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-health-care-workers-condition-medicare-medicaid-participation/ (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2021/08/06/502409/mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-health-care-workers-condition-medicare-medicaid-participation/)

http://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-joe-biden-business-health-travel-a1670ffa08f1f2eab42c675d99f1d9ad (http://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-joe-biden-business-health-travel-a1670ffa08f1f2eab42c675d99f1d9ad)

http://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-2e6189cd41068b1e0f643ee7e4bfbb92 (http://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-2e6189cd41068b1e0f643ee7e4bfbb92) 

Then...where can you move to?


There's millions of us out there that are working hard to change the management of this country.




  I'm still not convinced there is a giant worldwide conspiracy to strip the world's population of their rights.



The media isn't showing us the ongoing massive protests in Europe fighting over the control government want to place on them. The media isn't showing the aggressive lockdowns in Australia right now. Did you know one case showed up in New Zealand and they went back into lockdown?


It's in their nature government wants to grow and want control. You can have SARS, MERS, Ebola, Meningitis, Strep Throat, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tuberculosis, Hepatitis, Shingles, Chicken Pos, Cold, Flu, Herpes, or HIV and you don't need a passport that gives you freedoms to travel on a plane, go to work, go to the cinema, shop for food, etc....


So if we want to prevent government from controlling us, we need to resist their stupid proposals. Our government has not been aggressive as other Western nations but they are moving in the direction of applying more control. We have more than a dozen variants right now but they only bring out a couple at a time to regulate fear. You think this summers outbreak is bad, just wait till winter. It'll be a nightmare scenario and it won't be caused by the virus, it will be caused by the vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 20, 2021, 09:17:23 AM


BC, I supplied government documents saying the significant risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown and certain studies aren't completed and the vaccines are not approved for use on humans but it has emergency use authorization. I posted videos of leading vaccine experts that tell us why all coronavirus vaccines failed in the past and why the current ones are dangerous. They seen a lot of injured and dead lab animals to know what they are talking about. I posted worldometers data showing we are having an outbreak of a respiratory disease in the middle of summer. This doesn't happen with raspatory diseases. The vaccines made it much worse this year compared to last when nobody was vaccinated. The vaccines are turning us into human petri dishes creating more variants, more problems and prolonging this pandemic. I'd like to debate you more on this but management asked me to cut back so I won't be able to get into a vigorous debate with you. Go back to my old posts to find all the expert testimony or government fact sheets or you can keep trusting government doctors who are controlled by politicians who a bought by big pharma telling us the vaccines are safe and effective on television commercials. They are denying us informed consent so we must inform ourselves before consenting.

The media isn't showing us the ongoing massive protests in Europe fighting over the control government want to place on them.

It's all in your head, BillyB.  You want huge protests in Europe.  They aren't happening.  The opinions of your 'experts' are not fact, and worth no more than any other.  Everything you posted above has been discussed in detail, but you failed to participate in the discussions as you wish instead to ignore, rather than face facts.

The real problem is you spouting mis and disinformation.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 23, 2021, 08:08:02 AM
Pressured or otherwise, I received a text message stating the FDA granted Pfizer full vaccine approval.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 23, 2021, 01:18:48 PM
Indeed, GQ.

Full statement here http://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 24, 2021, 08:56:13 AM
Holy C-1-9 mandate, Batman! Are the Aussies' really cool with this? Getting arrested for 'being outside without good reason'?

http://twitter.com/charlieemmauk/status/1429471216260235266 (http://twitter.com/charlieemmauk/status/1429471216260235266)


I thought the budding two-tiered society the US is fast becoming is already gone bonkers, but to be arrested and fined because you're 'outside' amongst your friends without 'good reason' is more than a toe over the line crazy!!!

Are they (police) really pepper spraying children for protesting while holding signs that say 'Let me Play!' ?

http://twitter.com/thereclaimparty/status/1429380723455180805 (http://twitter.com/thereclaimparty/status/1429380723455180805)

 :o
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 24, 2021, 12:46:35 PM
GQ,

Italy has similar laws and fines during lockdowns, and especially for those that are positive and break quarantine. I wouldn't call such unique to Australia.

Fortunately, for the moment stable in Italy with no lockdowns and only minimal restrictions and quarantine for those that test positive.  Should be able to reach 80% 12 and over fully vaccinated by the end of September.  Most vaccines now going to the younger crowd before school starts. Over 50 and vulnerable, already well over 80% are vaccinated.



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 24, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
BC-

I can fully understand the guy in the elevator getting fined, maybe even arrested. But I'm having a hard time with getting arrested just for being outside if you're not 'proven' positive, or is showing any symptoms. That just seem so draconian to me.

Not to belabor the point, but after 1.5 years I'm still mystified how a virus with an incredibly low mortality rate (0.064% worldwide; 0.19% US) be this traumatic everywhere.

In the US, CDC study (http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/78-of-covid-19-patients-hospitalized-in-the-us-overweight-or-obese-cdc-finds.html) showed 78% of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 are folks who are overweight/obese. 78%!! That's almost 8 out of 10 folks!!!

A study by World Obesity Federation (http://www.worldobesity.org/news/obesity-and-covid-19-policy-statement) cited the risk of death is 10 times higher in countries where half of the adults are overweight/obese. This easily explains the relative higher rate of deaths in the US than anywhere else. You can look at country per country and make the correlation of obesity rate vs COVID deaths, and the number is fairly astounding.

Anyway, congrats on your vaccination development there! It's slowly creeping up here too, but not at that type of pace.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 24, 2021, 06:19:19 PM
BC-

I can fully understand the guy in the elevator getting fined, maybe even arrested. But I'm having a hard time with getting arrested just for being outside if you're not 'proven' positive, or is showing any symptoms. That just seem so draconian to me.

During the dark days in Italy, it was much the same.  You stayed in your home unless you had essential things to do, like grocery shopping, doctor visit, essential work, etc.  Yes, it was Draconian, but was the only way to slow down the spread.  Not enough masks, not even close to a vaccine and hospitals overwhelmed.  Everyone carried around a form declaring their intent for the trip, and there were controls.  Even going out of your own city/town was not allowed.

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Not to belabor the point, but after 1.5 years I'm still mystified how a virus with an incredibly low mortality rate (0.064% worldwide; 0.19% US) be this traumatic everywhere.

I guess one has to remember that there was a lot of mitigation going on.  I'd hate to see what would happen without even trying...  I suspect the number of deaths would have doubled, tripled, quadrupled or even more.  Peru has around 6000 deaths per million.  The US now around 2000, so well within the realm of possibility.  At those levels, a lot of other factors come into play, supply and food chain breakdowns, healthcare total breakdowns, essential services, banking, complete lawlessness, and on and on when the survival instinct kicks in.  A chain reaction driven by fear that would certainly have caused even more death than the virus.  Add other aliments into the mix, cholera, typhoid etc.  A real nightmare scenario.

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In the US, CDC study (http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/78-of-covid-19-patients-hospitalized-in-the-us-overweight-or-obese-cdc-finds.html) showed 78% of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 are folks who are overweight/obese. 78%!! That's almost 8 out of 10 folks!!!

A study by World Obesity Federation (http://www.worldobesity.org/news/obesity-and-covid-19-policy-statement) cited the risk of death is 10 times higher in countries where half of the adults are overweight/obese. This easily explains the relative higher rate of deaths in the US than anywhere else. You can look at country per country and make the correlation of obesity rate vs COVID deaths, and the number is fairly astounding.

Indeed, obesity is a big factor, but others weigh in as well, age being the greatest.  Hypertension, diabetes.

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Anyway, congrats on your vaccination development there! It's slowly creeping up here too, but not at that type of pace.

Yes, Italy is doing quite well and the effort is showing good progress and solid results.  I tip my hat as well.  Italy is famous for its unruly population and disregarding norms like lines, driving, seat belt use, parking etc. but they really pulled together and got everything well organized.  Having been hit very hard initially made it very real for the population, you could almost imagine the virus like a fog during lockdowns.  Many mistakes were made, but a lot was learned as well.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 25, 2021, 10:45:40 PM
A new UK study that shows the vaccines start not to protect as well after 5-6 months:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/25/covid-protection-for-the-fully-vaccinated-is-waning-uk-study-finds.html

BBC News - Coronavirus: Waning immunity and rising cases - time to worry?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58334835

Whether it falls away more as each month passes beyond that 5-6 months we've still got to find out as not enough time has passed. If so then we could be in for the long haul with this virus. I think countries in the west could go on vaccinating their populations for some years but whether further vaccinations will be effective after having been already vaccinated several times in the past who knows. Possibly a slightly different vaccine based on a variant might do but again probably only or so long.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on August 26, 2021, 07:54:28 AM
A new UK study that shows the vaccines start not to protect as well after 5-6 months:

We have to get a new flu shot every year.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on August 27, 2021, 12:57:41 PM
As my wife studies for the state test, she's being offered RN jobs. She's an honor student and they are offering her $25,000 sign up bonuses. She's just beginning her career so I'm willing to give up mine and start over for her benefit. Government documents show reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed on vaccines. In the past botched vaccines caused 10's of thousands of babies to be born without limbs, brain, and heart damage. My wife wants healthy kids and she's not taking any chances with a vaccine that was rushed and is currently failing.


The above statement is inaccurate.  mRNA vaccines have been human trialed since 2006.  There is zero evidence of effects on human reproduction.  It's been tested on pregnant women, with zero effects on the foetus.


http://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-0052
http://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.2435-y
http://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00525-y


Your wife's bigger concern should be reproducing with a man over 50 years old - higher risk of premature birth, late still birth, low Agpar scores, higher incidence of birth defects, and increased likelihood of childhood cancers, psychiatric and cognitive disorders, and autism.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on August 28, 2021, 08:23:11 AM
Your wife's bigger concern should be reproducing with a man over 50 years old - higher risk of premature birth, late still birth, low Agpar scores, higher incidence of birth defects, and increased likelihood of childhood cancers, psychiatric and cognitive disorders, and autism.

My father was 41 when he helped my mother become pregnant with me.

But he continued on with this practice and fathered three of my brothers at age 51, 53 and 55.

Two of those brothers are now deceased:  One from a motorcycle wreck and one after a series of small strokes.

No cancer nor autism in my family . . . but we are all a bit crazy (maybe weird is a better word) . . . which comes (I think) from both sides of my family; a bit more from mother's side !!!
Title: Jimmy not Billy
Post by: ML on August 28, 2021, 09:39:53 AM
My wife wants healthy kids and she's not taking any chances with a vaccine that was rushed and is currently failing.

Billy, take care to name your first son Jimmy rather than after you.

Jimmy's are more successful than Billy's.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 28, 2021, 11:13:20 AM
45 was my cut-off age for new offspring. Was 43 when my youngest son was born, IMO already pushing the limits.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 28, 2021, 11:32:25 AM
My old pops (Near 101 years old) is in assisted living.  I often barge past the front desk, but today they told me after today I can no longer visit without the dreaded vaccine. 

Last year I was not able to visit my dad during his final months. We were all in lockdown, travel possibilities scarce, and no vaccine available. Mother forbade me to travel until we were all vaccinated. We did keep up with video chats, but really, really wish I could have been there.  Technology can't replace a hug, a couple shots can make it possible.  Small sacrifice, no-brainer.
Title: CSI COVID
Post by: BC on August 29, 2021, 04:20:50 AM
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e2.htm?s_cid=mm7035e2_w

This is a very interesting read, not because of the obvious, but for other reasons as well.

Teacher tested positive, still went to work for two days instead of isolating, infecting kids in the class and others.

By analyzing timing of subsequent infections and using genomic sequencing to 'track' the resulting infections, well-defined evidentiary material was produced, substantiating the cause of the outbreak.

In Italy, those that do not follow the rules and break quarantine requirements can be held criminally and civilly liable for any resulting damages. If someone dies, because they broke quarantine, they can be charged for homicide. Even those with known symptoms, fever, etc., not yet tested, could be liable in some cases.

I suspect, that even in the US, this case could result in lawsuits against the school and teacher involved, and maybe even charges against the teacher.

Be careful out there, if you have symptoms, get tested and do not only what is required by law, but what is good common sense as well.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 29, 2021, 07:33:35 AM
BC-

This is part of the problem, serious lack of trusted, consistent guideline.

If you look at the CDC protocol on what to do if you get infected, it never tells you to ‘get tested’. What it tells you to do is quarantine for ‘x’ days. There’s even variables on how many days you should, dependent on certain conditions. One that I find sinister is a person can stop quarantine if a person does not feel feverish for 24 hours without the aid of medication.

The much larger number of people infected never even knew they’re infected much less have a fever. When I had covid, I only felt a slight fever for less than 6 hours the entire week. I never found the need to take any type of medication.

Heck, here in Santa Monica an anti-vaccine mandate protest is causing business to board up windows in anticipation of violence against pro-vaccine crowd.

http://www.foxla.com/news/santa-monica-to-boost-police-presence-ahead-of-sunday-anti-vaccine-protest.amp
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 29, 2021, 02:36:56 PM
GQ,

Indeed, very confusing when what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Although Italy has a handfull of autonomous regions, and some do balk from time to time, they all pretty much agree on the same standards, following the science and not politics.

I brought some tests with me from EU, surprised to find they are not sold here in the US.  Glad I did because it seems quite impossible to get tested here, or even buy antigen tests. Some stores advertise free* testing, then say you have to bring your insurance or voucher?  Strange..  What sense does that make.  The health department does not give tests because they are not health providers, so they farm it out to stores and such I reckon.  This also quite confusing.  I'm going to sign up for one just to see what happens.  I'm not insured in the US or on medicare or whatever.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on August 29, 2021, 04:34:33 PM
Some stores advertise free* testing, then say you have to bring your insurance or voucher?  Strange..  What sense does that make.

They will provide free, but if they think some insurance might pay, then they would like to submit a claim.

I know in my state Covid tests and vaccines are free but there are signs saying bring your insurance card.  And yet, no one ever even asked to see our insurance cards.

Rules and procedures are in a flux from week to week.

Yes, not well coordinated but . . . many of the health workers are donating their time . . . so we really can't complain too much.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 29, 2021, 09:00:36 PM
GQ,

Indeed, very confusing when what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Although Italy has a handfull of autonomous regions, and some do balk from time to time, they all pretty much agree on the same standards, following the science and not politics.

I brought some tests with me from EU, surprised to find they are not sold here in the US.  Glad I did because it seems quite impossible to get tested here, or even buy antigen tests. Some stores advertise free* testing, then say you have to bring your insurance or voucher?  Strange..  What sense does that make.  The health department does not give tests because they are not health providers, so they farm it out to stores and such I reckon.  This also quite confusing.  I'm going to sign up for one just to see what happens.  I'm not insured in the US or on medicare or whatever.

BC-

See if there’s a CVS drugstore near you. Maybe even Walgreens. They sell home test kits +/- $30.00.

http://www.cvs.com/shop/home-health-care/home-tests/home-covid-test

As for insurance card, tell them you don’t have one. Illegal immigrants don’t have that problem, you shouldn’t either.

Although since you likely voted for Biden, well…you know… :devil:
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 30, 2021, 02:01:52 AM
Some more cases in the UK of people that didn't get the vaccine and didn't survive to tell the tale:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-be-40-who-turned-24863682.amp

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/heart-gold-dad-dies-covid-24808025?utm_source=mantis_rec&utm_medium=amp&utm_campaign=more_like_this

To me looking like BillyB was right on this virus being like the Flu but year long around. I don't see that the Delta variant is any less deadly than the original, it appears more so if anything as it's taking many in their 30s & 40s that haven't been vaccinated and have no underlying health conditions. I've read reports that there have been mutations of the Delta variant, sub variants and one of those looks like it might be spreading a lot. Still early days to see if any variant of the variants will take over. The Delta variant still seems to be taking a deadly toll so guessing we'll see after its run its course where we are. With the vaccines losing effectiveness after 5-6 months it's looking like we could be stuck with at least a yearly if not twice yearly vaccination need. My guess is that the cost of this will end up having to be either paid privately or a taxation set up for it. Fortunately we are in wealthy nations that will probably be able to afford a vaccination system going on for quite some time.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpress.com/article/explained/covid-19-ay-12-sub-lineage-of-delta-variant-7473190/lite/

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/delta-covid-variant-doubles-risk-hospitalisation-new-study-finds

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58307215.amp
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 30, 2021, 02:03:54 AM
Kind thanks GQ!

I'll give Walgreens a try and see what happens.  Think there is a CVS out here as well.

Yeah,  :devil:  strange, I almost feel like an illegal.  Going through the process of getting a state driver's license, so at least have that to show for ID they list as required as well.  Haven't seen my social security card for decades, and need to somehow prove my SSN number is real??  SSA won't send me a replacement unless I have a state driver's license or ID. I do have a good SSN number.... So will have to pick up a copy of my DD-214 next week or so that I fortunately registered with the clerk of court decades ago as well.  I'm starting to understand a bit why this photo ID bizness to vote is such a debacle.  Lots of catch-22 situations involved, and certainly not doable on short notice, before an election.  Tried to get a driver's license a couple of years ago on my last visit.  They wouldn't give me one because I didn't have a car registered in my name, so had to put myself on my mom's insurance and provide proof of insurance as well this time 'round.  Sheezus.. all this to get a covid test?   Is an interesting exercise though and helps me better understand.

I'm really starting to get the feeling that it is Big Biz that runs this country and not government.  Already had to order a certified birth certificate from another state.  Found out the state doesn't do it anymore, have to go through a biz contractor that does that as well for 50 bucks including ups fee.  Need a credit card for that.  What do folks here do that don't have a credit card?

Quote
Over 6% of U.S. households, or a total 14.1 million American adults, are unbanked, according to the most recent National Survey of Unbanked and Underbanked Households by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 30, 2021, 03:30:08 AM
Thinking I might want a Astra Zenaca vaccine booster around Christmas time. Anyone know where I might be able to pay to get this done privately in Europe? Could getting it done in Ukraine privately be a possibility for non citizens?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 30, 2021, 03:56:31 AM
I doubt possible in UA.  Folks I know there have been waiting for some time, and no under table antics were possible.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 30, 2021, 05:40:08 AM
I doubt possible in UA.  Folks I know there have been waiting for some time, and no under table antics were possible.

Thanks BC appreciate the info. Surely a way for a rich foreign dude to walk to the front of the queue, a wad of foreign hard currency normally works wonders out there ;D
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 30, 2021, 06:15:39 AM
Thanks BC appreciate the info. Surely a way for a rich foreign dude to walk to the front of the queue, a wad of foreign hard currency normally works wonders out there ;D

Not as far as I know.  He has plenty of money, in any currency, and his wife is a nurse.  Without a doubt, more than you have.

Keep following your 'man from the west' mirage.  You have very little to offer that is worth anything there.

Guy at the bar asks the nice looking bartender if she likes him.  She answered "No".  He spit on a hundred dollar bill and stuck it to his forehead and asked "How about now?".  She took the hundred dollar bill, pocketed it and told him "Still no, but thanks for the tip."

But yeah, go ahead and try.





Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 30, 2021, 06:20:45 AM
Not as far as I know.  He has plenty of money, in any currency, and his wife is a nurse.  Without a doubt, more than you have.

Keep following your 'man from the west' mirage.  You have very little to offer that is worth anything there.

Guy at the bar asks the nice looking bartender if she likes him.  She answered "No".  He spit on a hundred dollar bill and stuck it to his forehead and asked "How about now?".  She took the hundred dollar bill, pocketed it and told him "Still no, but thanks for the tip."

But yeah, go ahead and try.

Really, where have all the corrupt people gone in Ukraine these days, sigh :(
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on August 30, 2021, 07:56:11 AM
I doubt possible in UA.  Folks I know there have been waiting for some time, and no under table antics were possible.
Entirely possible.

I know someone who has obtained a vaccine certificate, completely authentic, down to batch numbers etc and properly stamped.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 30, 2021, 08:15:13 AM
Entirely possible.

I know someone who has obtained a vaccine certificate, completely authentic, down to batch numbers etc and properly stamped.

Now that may well be possible, and according to my wife very much so in Russia.  Think Trenchie meant getting the actual vaccine.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on August 30, 2021, 09:04:45 AM
Kind thanks GQ!

I'll give Walgreens a try and see what happens.  Think there is a CVS out here as well.

Yeah,  >:D  strange, I almost feel like an illegal.  Going through the process of getting a state driver's license, so at least have that to show for ID they list as required as well.  Haven't seen my social security card for decades, and need to somehow prove my SSN number is real??  SSA won't send me a replacement unless I have a state driver's license or ID. I do have a good SSN number.... So will have to pick up a copy of my DD-214 next week or so that I fortunately registered with the clerk of court decades ago as well.  I'm starting to understand a bit why this photo ID bizness to vote is such a debacle.  Lots of catch-22 situations involved, and certainly not doable on short notice, before an election.  Tried to get a driver's license a couple of years ago on my last visit.  They wouldn't give me one because I didn't have a car registered in my name, so had to put myself on my mom's insurance and provide proof of insurance as well this time 'round.  Sheezus.. all this to get a covid test?   Is an interesting exercise though and helps me better understand.

I'm really starting to get the feeling that it is Big Biz that runs this country and not government.  Already had to order a certified birth certificate from another state.  Found out the state doesn't do it anymore, have to go through a biz contractor that does that as well for 50 bucks including ups fee.  Need a credit card for that.  What do folks here do that don't have a credit card?


You'll be right to conclude that almost all functions of life here goes through some type of business handlers. Large part why our legislators are inundated with lobbyists, BC. I'm sure you've always been aware of this.

Anyway, getting a SS card only requires a government issued photo ID. Passport/military ID are widely accepted in all states. This is the reason why voter-ID is incredibly important. Of course, using a military card doesn't denote your citizenship, but it will cite your resident status nonetheless. Many States, like California, issues California ID and/or Driver's License for illegal immigrants, and this is where a lot of fraud begins to muck up our system.

As for auto insurance, not sure if you're aware of this but your relatives can ask to amend the policy and add you as listed driver for whatever time you deem appropriate, a week, month, etc..

Anyway, good luck in getting your home testing kit. Everyone should have a kit or two handy in their household these days.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on August 30, 2021, 10:07:56 AM
Now that may well be possible, and according to my wife very much so in Russia.  Think Trenchie meant getting the actual vaccine.
Trenchies going to look like a pin hole cushion. With all the jabs he’s getting, he may turn out to be the first humanovirus.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 30, 2021, 10:19:48 AM
Trenchies going to look like a pin hole cushion. With all the jabs he’s getting, he may turn out to be the first humanovirus.

Ah Gaunty just the man :D Now didn't you mention you got your virus jab done privately?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on August 30, 2021, 02:09:35 PM

You'll be right to conclude that almost all functions of life here goes through some type of business handlers. Large part why our legislators are inundated with lobbyists, BC. I'm sure you've always been aware of this.

Yes, I was aware of such, but not as to the extent services I would expect to be still handled by govt actually being outsourced to commercial operators. 

Quote
Anyway, getting a SS card only requires a government issued photo ID. Passport/military ID are widely accepted in all states. This is the reason why voter-ID is incredibly important. Of course, using a military card doesn't denote your citizenship, but it will cite your resident status nonetheless. Many States, like California, issues California ID and/or Driver's License for illegal immigrants, and this is where a lot of fraud begins to muck up our system.

Yes, but I was not able to accomplish requesting a card the easy way online.  Instead, I'm now waiting for an available appointment at a SSA office an hour's drive away.  I would hope I can get an appointment sometime this week.  Walk-ins are not possible due to COVID.  Thereafter, I expect somewhere around a couple weeks before the replacement card arrives.  For those following this convo between GQ and myself, 'm not bitchin' and moaning, just reporting my direct experience.  As with the outsourcing thing, it's quite different hearing something and actually having to actually go through these processes.  I'm as close to an unbanked USC with very limited ID as it gets :)

Quote
As for auto insurance, not sure if you're aware of this but your relatives can ask to amend the policy and add you as listed driver for whatever time you deem appropriate, a week, month, etc..

Indeed GQ.  We're all USAA members so that part is quite easy and underway.

Quote
Anyway, good luck in getting your home testing kit. Everyone should have a kit or two handy in their household these days.

Yes, good luck for sure.. seems all the rapid DIY 15 min antigen type are sold out.  Most here 10 times the price in EU as well (for health dept approved/certified).  I'll just have my wife send me a couple dozen some if I need 'em.  Price in Italy is around 3-5 bucks delivery included for packs of 10.  Even the expensive Roche tests are only 175 bucks delivered for 25 tests which is 7 bucks per test.  Had I known this, I would have brought over a suitcase full and sold 'em like popcorn.  Obviously, a demand is present here for tests that are anonymous and don't require registration.  I find this very surprising, almost a racket.

http://www.praxisdienst.de/Laborbedarf/Tests/Corona+Schnelltests/Roche+SARS+CoV+2+Antigen+Selbsttest.html

(http://i.postimg.cc/CKDB5RgG/Screen-Shot-2021-08-30-at-4-39-57-PM.png)

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 30, 2021, 10:43:13 PM

 mRNA vaccines have been human trialed since 2006. 


Yet none have ever made it to stage 3 trials. The COVID vaccines skipped stage 3 and many animal trials.

http://www.modernatx.com/pipeline



There is zero evidence of effects on human reproduction.


FDA factsheets for every vaccine say reproductive tests have not been completed. They take years to complete.


It's been tested on pregnant women, with zero effects on the foetus.


A Romanian woman I talked to last weeks said she knows 3 women that lost their babies right after taking the vaccine. She also knows a doctor who was told to write on death certificates everyone had COVID. An Iraqi guy who works for me says they do the same thing in his country. Lot's of deception from the people you're wanting to trust.


239 million doses ordered for Canadians which is much more than the population. Canadians will have multiple jabs of experimental vaccines for years to come.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/293-million-covid-vaccine-doses-ordered-for-canadians-enough-for-nearly-eight-shots-per-year-for-every-man-woman-and-child/



Hospitals can afford to fire medical personnel if they don't get vaxxed. That means we are not in a Pandemic and we don't have a medical emergency anymore.


Natural immunity 13 times more effective against anti vaccine Delta variant than vaccines.

http://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/ends-debate-israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-13x-more-effective-vaccines-stopping

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties


Study shows 1/3rd of Americans having COVID which drops the case fatality rate to 0.3% which means COVID is a little more dangerous than the flu. Take away the inflated deaths and case fatality rate would fall further. Ask yourself with natural immunity being superior and a large amount of Americans have natural immunity, why are they pushing so hard for 100% of the population to be vaccinated especially after seeing the vaccines are failing?

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03914-4


Fauci once said what the worst case scenario will be and there is evidence the worst case scenario is happening. The vaccines are making people worse. Vaxxed people still get the disease and transmit it. They become human petri dishes for anti vax variants to emerge. The vax compromises immune systems. Infections have skyrocketed this year compared to last year same time when nobody was vaccinated.

http://www.brighteon.com/93a0e297-5d74-4f7a-a9ea-7f2180760fd3


I don't follow government doctors that are controlled by politicians who are controlled by big pharma money. Many of the experts I follow last year said it was a mistake to vaccinate healthy people in a pandemic. Now they see government doctors double down with boosters, they have changed their tune to something sinister is going on. Since the 60's, they've known every attempt at making a coronavirus vaccine failed due to the numerous injured and dead animals they witnessed. They have no faith these quickly release vaccines will be any better. NONE have been rejected. What are the chances 100% of the vaccines are accepted when they couldn't create a single one in the last 60 years? The current vaccines have already killed and injured more people in a matter of months than all other vaccines in history. Long term effects aren't known but based on previous animals models in trials for coronavirus vaccines, immune systems get compromised leading to premature death. Depopulation is likely to happen with people losing 5, 10, 15 years of their life due to compromised immune systems. People may get a little protection from a Coronavirus vaccine but they will be more vulnerable to every other pathogen that enters their body.

http://www.brighteon.com/c39c458e-70f1-4bcf-9ae7-17e5e92bbd99


Everyday in America there are tv commercials that say "You may be entitled to financial compensation" referring to something the FDA approved. They've taken away our rights to sue for damages caused by the current vaccines. If you guys care about your health, get educated beyond what the government says in a commercial that the "vaccines are safe and effective". That phase does not exist in their Fact Sheets.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on August 30, 2021, 11:45:27 PM
Ah Gaunty just the man :D Now didn't you mention you got your virus jab done privately?
Nope, stood in line and waited my turn. Not in the UK though.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on August 31, 2021, 12:02:34 AM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25293.msg558915#msg558915

mRNA vaccines have been tested, including on pregnant women, since 2006.

I will defer to the opinions of scientists.  When I need to build a house, I will defer to your expertise.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 31, 2021, 12:15:43 AM
Looks like things are bad in the US with the virus, infections way up, shortages of beds, oxygen & staff shortages etc. A case of an anti vaxxer campaigner in Texas who didn't make it:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/28/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine.amp.html

Just 30 so people are getting hit increasingly younger it seems if thet don't have the vaccine, when will these people learn. Also some silly female teacher imposed the virus risk on all her pupils by not being vaccinated or wearing  mask.

Here in the UK infection rate down a bit for yesterday's figures, deaths also down quite a lot, just 48. Possibly might be due to counting over the weekend so will have to see if it's just a temporary blip or a trend downwards now however long it may last.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on August 31, 2021, 09:22:14 PM

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25293.msg558915#msg558915 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25293.msg558915#msg558915)

mRNA vaccines have been tested, including on pregnant women, since 2006.

I will defer to the opinions of scientists.  When I need to build a house, I will defer to your expertise.

The inventor of mRNA vaccines, Dr Malone, says the COVID vaccines are unsafe for pregnant women. He also talks about other dangers.

http://rumble.com/vlx5og-dr.-robert-malone-inventor-of-mrna-vaccines-talks-about-dangers-of-covid-19.html


Here's a scientist that says the vaccine for the original virus actually helps the variants infect us. That is the worst case nightmare scenario my experts and Fauci said in a recent video I provided. Trudeau just secured 8 jabs for every man woman and child in Canada. Bad move and possibly even evil.

http://t.me/WeTheMedia/31637


I also follow the ex VP and chief science officer of Pfizer, discover of HIV and French Nobel Peace Prize winner, and ex senior project manager of epidemics for the Gates Foundation who has a lifetime of experience in vaccines. There's no reason to ignore those experts. There are many more doctors/scientists that say the same thing they are saying but the media ignores all of them and social media censors them. They say the vaccines are dangerous and can lead to world depopulation. They all seen the data and say what is going on could amount to crimes against humanity. There are people with masters degrees that fell for the government and media BS and there are people who dropped out of high school that can see through the BS. Actually, the most vaccine hesitant group is the one with PhDs.


Study in Israel say those vaccinated 27 times more likely to be infected by virus than those with natural immunity. Israel had their worst day yesterday, worst than any day in the winter when our immune systems are at their weakest. All heavily vaccinated countries had very bad outbreaks in summer. This winter may be very deadly.

http://fee.org/articles/harvard-epidemiologist-says-the-case-for-covid-vaccine-passports-was-just-demolished/


RFK Jr, nephew of JFK, warns us what government is doing and they are up to no good.

http://t.me/LinWoodChannel/4745


White House rolls out booster plans without FDA and CDC say. Two senior FDA personnel involved in vaccine approvals resign. Governments, not science is in control.

http://endpts.com/breaking-in-a-major-blow-to-vaccine-efforts-senior-fda-leaders-stepping-down-report/

http://www.biopharmadive.com/news/marion-gruber-phil-krause-leaving-fda/605859/

http://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/two-fda-vaccine-officials-to-step-down-after-covid-clearances

http://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/u-s-gives-blessing-covid-19-boosters-for-all-september-but-fda-still-needs-to-sign-off


In 2018, the Q awareness program said for them to get power and control, there will be mass extinction events that involve big pharma and vaccines. Just one of the reasons MSM and politicians including Biden attack Q relentlessly. I heavily criticize politicians all the time and I can't even get the attention of lowly CNN.

http://qalerts.app/?n=1010



2017 John Hopkins study was funded by Bill Gates. It was done to predict a future pandemic and how to deal with it. The title was "The SPARS Pandemic". They played out the pandemic before it happened to get an idea on how it would go down. It's a long read but here's a brief rundown.

In 2023 a novel coronavirus that originated in Asia shows up on earth.

They name the new virus SPARS-CoV and use social media to help spread the word on how to combat it.

Early case fatality rate was 4.7% causing panic but in the end, case fatality rate was determined to be only 0.6% which is a little more dangerous than the flu.

In less than a year, a vaccine was created named Corovax. Massive ad campaign was created to get people vaccinated.

Anti vaccine groups emerges claiming the vaccines aren't safe, long term side effects not known, and not enough testing done.

Government uses social media and other means in their effort to vaccinate the entire population and combat the anti vaccine message.

The study concluded the very real possibility of a future SPARS pandemic that necessitates continued commitment to vaccination programs.

http://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/spars-pandemic-scenario-copy.pdf


After 40 years of trying, another HIV vaccine fails. Coronavirus vaccines had the same history as HIV vaccines which consist of nothing but failures until they cleverly got us to like putting the stuff into our bodies.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/johnson-johnson-hiv-vaccine-candidate-fails-mid-stage-trial/ar-AANWsss?ocid=msedgntp


I've spent a lot of time helping educate people for the benefit of their health. Government insisting people take experimental vaccines without giving a pass to those who have natural immunity isn't a bad mistake anymore. There's something sinister going on.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 01, 2021, 08:06:05 AM
While some aimlessly fire their blunderbuss, others take aim accurately with data in hand...

(http://i.postimg.cc/NF7D1VQj/Screen-Shot-2021-09-01-at-10-26-40-AM.png) 

In the state where I am at:

Quote
Aug 27, 2021
The North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services yesterday released new data in the weekly respiratory surveillance report showing that unvaccinated people were 15.4 times, or 1,540 percent, more likely to die from COVID-19 during the four-week period ending Aug. 21, 2021. This comes as the state hit a pandemic high on Aug. 26 with 912 adults in the ICU with COVID-19. The number of COVID-19 patients on ventilators also reached a record high at 574.

Quote
During the week ending Aug. 21, 2021, unvaccinated people were also 4.4 times, or 440 percent, more likely to catch COVID-19 than vaccinated people. The difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated teens was even greater during the week ending Aug. 21, 2021, with unvaccinated people aged 12 to 17 being 6.3 times, or 630 percent, more likely to get COVID-19 than vaccinated people in the same age group.

http://www.ncdhhs.gov/news/press-releases/2021/08/27/adult-icu-patients-hit-record-highs-pandemic-new-report-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-more-15-times

Likely to be quite similar nationwide. 

Bottom line:

Oxygen shortages, nursing shortages and tough decisions are having to be made, are primarily due to the unvaccinated.








Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 01, 2021, 08:49:48 AM
These reported numbers MUST be taken with a grain of salt. There is no discernible proof in these reported numbers but just an obvious, almost predictable, relationship pattern in reporting these numbers.

When vaccination of teenagers came around, reports of unvaccinated teenagers dying started flooding the media. Children, same. etc...what they don't report openly is regardless of vaccination, people are still dying that have comorbidities, chief amongst them are the overweight/obese people. This reality strikes through risk markers via demographics.

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html (http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html)

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. You feel you need to get vaccinated, by all means do. If you fall on the overly-reported set of people that fell to this virus, use every precautionary measure you can for yourself, and for those around you. Pay no mind to all the chatter from both sides.

Pay attention to the available science in front of you. Do NOT be swayed by the media of all sources.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on September 01, 2021, 09:22:35 AM


I'm not an anti-vaxxer. You feel you need to get vaccinated, by all means do. If you fall on the overly-reported set of people that fell to this virus, use every precautionary measure you can for yourself, and for those around you. Pay no mind to all the chatter from both sides.

Pay attention to the available science in front of you. Do NOT be swayed by the media of all sources.

I listened to convincing arguments from both sides yesterday.   Since I'm healthy and feel I must have already been infected I have leaned towards not getting the vaccine.    I'm starting to feel the pinch of restrictions though, so I think that pressure will make me get vaccinated soon.  I think the risk of getting a vaccine is infinitesimal, so at a certain point it seems like just getting it done is better.   It also seems boosters will become a yearly thing from what I'm hearing. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 01, 2021, 10:12:10 AM
FT, in your shoes, I would get vaccinated solely so that I could visit my father. 



http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=profile;u=722

Robert Malone did not invent the mRNA vaccine.  The research he did also wasn't his, exclusively.

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/


The rest of the QAnon rabbit hole doesn't deserve a serious response. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 01, 2021, 10:53:36 AM
Unbelievable!

This vaccination madness had come this (http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/569971-judge-revokes-mothers-custody-of-son-until-she-is-vaccinated)!!!

This judge rescinded the order a day later, but why the heck is our world even coming remotely close to this madness??!!!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 01, 2021, 12:57:16 PM
These reported numbers MUST be taken with a grain of salt. There is no discernible proof in these reported numbers but just an obvious, almost predictable, relationship pattern in reporting these numbers.

GQ,

I've seen estimates that approx 40-60 percent of the US population have some health factors that may be related to severity of infection and death.  Indeed, some population groups may have more than others.  In addition, there may be genetic factors as well that are related to susceptibility and severity. http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7

Still a lot to be learned about the bug, but plenty of reports of young, healthy folks without health problems getting sick and dying.

Agree fully that there is a lot of confusing and even conflicting information making the rounds from a number of official and unofficial sources. 



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 01, 2021, 03:43:38 PM
Quote
Study in Israel say those vaccinated 27 times more likely to be infected by virus than those with natural immunity. Israel had their worst day yesterday, worst than any day in the winter when our immune systems are at their weakest. All heavily vaccinated countries had very bad outbreaks in summer. This winter may be very deadly.


That is how all vaccines work.


When I was screened for all sorts of things when pregnant, the doctor asked me if I'd had measles and rubella, as my immunities were "off the charts".  Yes, I had both rubella and measles when I was a baby.  Had I had vaccinations as a child, I would have been at risk for reinfection without regular booster shots.  Those are very common vaccines, and they have less debilitating effects than does COVID.


The problem with your statement is that one has to be infected with COVID to get those immunities.  It may not be an issue to go through COVID, but you could say that about any infectious disease.  Why get an MMR vaccine?  Why whooping cough?  Why the flu?  Most people who get these infections don't die from them. 



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 01, 2021, 10:25:53 PM
Here’s an interesting article on another scientist whose contributions were critical to the development of mRNA vaccines. It’s a cool article.

http://tinyurl.com/u2u9e6jt
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 01, 2021, 10:29:13 PM
This is almost funny. Well, okay hopefully he’ll be fine but karma’s a b*tch! I listen to Joe Rogan Experience. Arguably the hottest podcast in circulation. He’s had Neil DeGrasse, Elon Musk, Ed Snowden, and a slew of UFC stalwarts, and plenty of notables folks from politics, entertainment, science community, etc…

Joe is a comedian, UFC host, ex-Fear Factor host, and an overall great guy.

Anyway, being a jujitsu black belt and an avid health freak, Joe got in hot water not too long ago when he said that if someone asked him if they should get vaccinated, he basically replied that if you’re young, fit etc..you really have nothing to worry about so he said his answer would be no. He even double downed on it.

LMAO. Then he got bit!

http://www.instagram.com/tv/CTSsA8wAR2-/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=2f24fffb-fecc-44e6-9bb0-9175f74e01b3&ig_mid=2EDD2DBA-171A-4A33-8C80-00A144821609

I thought ‘funny’ because of the regimen he undertook to battle with the virus. Damn! In comparison, I didn’t even take an aspirin, and I’m older than the guy.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 01, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
While some aimlessly fire their blunderbuss, others take aim accurately with data in hand...

(http://i.postimg.cc/NF7D1VQj/Screen-Shot-2021-09-01-at-10-26-40-AM.png) 

In the state where I am at:

http://www.ncdhhs.gov/news/press-releases/2021/08/27/adult-icu-patients-hit-record-highs-pandemic-new-report-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-more-15-times (http://www.ncdhhs.gov/news/press-releases/2021/08/27/adult-icu-patients-hit-record-highs-pandemic-new-report-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-more-15-times)

Likely to be quite similar nationwide. 

Bottom line:

Oxygen shortages, nursing shortages and tough decisions are having to be made, are primarily due to the unvaccinated.


Almost everybody in Israel is vaccinated and yesterday they had 30% more single day infections than any day last Winter. They are breaking a new record everyday. Infections are skyrocketing in heavily vaccinated countries because immune systems are compromised. Just wait to see what happens this winter when our immune systems are at their weakest.

If hospitals can terminate the jobs of medical personnel because they are unvaccinated, then we don't have a pandemic emergency. Seriously, last years heroes aren't needed this year if hospitals are going to fire them. I've attended 4 public hearings, everybody packed in like sardines and nobody wearing masks. Most of the people at the hearings are old and nobody is worried anymore. Although my governor mandated masks indoors again, I don't wear one. I go to the gym and most people don't wear them. The worst violators are from Eastern Europe. They don't like control by way of BS. The reason most of you aren't triple masked and quadruple jabbed right now is because people like me who resist. Everybody who is complying is making the problem worse by giving government more control.

Those who would give us essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin


Seriously guys, if you think the masks and vaccines are miracle cures, you don't need the government's permission to give yourself a little extra protection. Wear triple masks and get quadruple jabbed. I'm sticking with natural immunity and no masks.



Unbelievable!

This vaccination madness had come this (http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/569971-judge-revokes-mothers-custody-of-son-until-she-is-vaccinated)!!!

This judge rescinded the order a day later, but why the heck is our world even coming remotely close to this madness??!!!

Our media isn't showing us what is going on in other countries. New Zealand had one COVID death this year and they're still under total lockdown. Australia has gone totalitarian. Truckers strike all over the country in protest. I've seen kids pulled from parents so the authorities can vaccinate them. People in France denied entry into a food market. Governments denying us benefits, rights, including the right to shop for food doesn't seem like a very caring government to me. Totalitarian governments would use a pandemic like this to gain more control and take away freedoms.




Robert Malone did not invent the mRNA vaccine.  The research he did also wasn't his, exclusively.

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/)


The rest of the QAnon rabbit hole doesn't deserve a serious response. 

There's no such thing as QAnon. That was made up by the media to make Q look bad. All lies. Ask yourself why the media and Democrats would spend so much attention and years on this topic? Truth hurts them. Believing what the media says is going down a rabbit hole. If I read Q's posts in 2018, I would dismiss the predictions of election rigging to turn us into slaves, depopulation and control through pharma and vaccines. But now, seems like Q was right. The scary thing is that what we're seeing is not the worst they claimed will come from our leaders. They skimmed some uranium from the pile they sent to Russia and sent it to North Korea, Iran, and Syria and after a dirty bomb was created and used on a western city, we'd trace the isotopes back to Russia giving a deep state president support to start a major world war against Russia. That deep state president was thought to be Hillary. All these crisis we're seeing are engineered. It's a game for them. Afghanistan is the current game being played.

A video I posted earlier show how they erased Dr. Malone's history to make him look insignificant. Kinda like Stalin deleting pictures and rewriting history of people he didn't like. It's happening with a lot of people who don't go along with the narrative and it's getting worse to the point of being dangerous. Don't supply recent hit pieces on anti COVID vaccine doctors who never been against past vaccines. There is a good reason many doctors and scientists are against the COVID vaccine and have older articles talking about them that are honest. Dr. Malone has lots of patents and worked at Ft. Detrick which is the US miltary's place where they create biological and chemical weapons. He has a pretty good brain in his head.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2762315/

This article said Dr. Malone invented the MRNA delivery system. The Atlantic is a tool used by the Deep State to spread propaganda. Remember when they said their anonymous sources said Trump said dead soldiers were losers and suckers?

http://the-dna-universe.com/2021/04/15/the-history-of-mrna-applications/


Aren't you guys alarmed that two high level FDA members resigned due to the White House running the vaccine booster show overstepping the FDA? BIG RED FLAG. I wasn't wrong when I said the government, not science is dictating events. The same guy who did Afghanistan wants to pump more experimental vaccines into your body before FDA approval. It makes more sense now government commercials say the vaccines are safe and effective contrary to FDA Fact sheets that say the significant risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown.

The more you take vaccines, the greater risk of getting ADE(Antibody Dependent Enhancement) which the disease is made worst by the vaccine. Because the vaccines don't stop infection, they are turning people into human petri dishes which makes anti vaccine variants as the virus learns to be vaccine created defenses. People who fight with their natural immune system do not create anti vaccine variants that will hurt vaxxers in the future.

After decades of research, no coronavirus or mRNA vaccine of any kind has every been approved for use on humans. Lots of injured and dead animals is why they fail. Learn from history or it's going to repeat except this time it'll be humans, not animals that get hurt. What are the chances they finally get it right on not one but THREE vaccines in America and dozens of vaccines elsewhere in the world all at the same time? With experimental vaccines there is an experiment. This could end badly but you don't have to participate. Better to sit back and watch crimes against humanity happening to other people instead of on your family.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 01, 2021, 11:43:06 PM
A new, peer reviewed study.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210901191407.htm
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 02, 2021, 12:02:58 AM
A new, peer reviewed study.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210901191407.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210901191407.htm)


Months ago I linked an interview with ex VP of Pfizer and Chief Science officer saying peer review journals used to be a good source but they've been bought out by special interests. Scientists that don't go along with the narrative don't get funding. So basically scientists better say what politicians want or they're out of a job. Politicians manipulate science and then tell us to follow the science. Brilliant! First it was Climate Change and now it's vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on September 02, 2021, 05:09:16 AM

The problem with your statement is that one has to be infected with COVID to get those immunities.  It may not be an issue to go through COVID, but you could say that about any infectious disease.  Why get an MMR vaccine?  Why whooping cough?  Why the flu?  Most people who get these infections don't die from them.

Because none of those viruses were man made and the vaccines for them were thoroughly tested before they were rolled out, not after. The numbers are wrong, they are lying to you. If you wish to believe the wet market/bat cave theory or the great escape from the Wuhan lab theory, then do so but don't use "science" as your defense in the debate. Maybe a better question to ask yourself is "why is this virus here and how did it get here?" Also, why are the same people seemingly behind the virus, also offering the supposed "cure" for the virus. There appears to be a serious bait and switch going on yet it's being ignored.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 02, 2021, 05:13:12 AM
Almost everybody in Israel is vaccinated and yesterday they had 30% more single day infections than any day last Winter. They are breaking a new record everyday. Infections are skyrocketing in heavily vaccinated countries because immune systems are compromised. Just wait to see what happens this winter when our immune systems are at their weakest.

You are overinvested in your Q and anon headlines, BillyB.  Instead of asking questions, you publish mis and disinformation.

http://ycharts.com/indicators/israel_coronavirus_tests_administered_per_day
http://www.timesofisrael.com/testing-testing-and-more-testing-israel-lays-out-plan-for-reopening-schools/

Of course, with more testing, more infections will be detected.  Likely a larger number of asymptomatic cases as well.


Quote
If hospitals can terminate the jobs of medical personnel because they are unvaccinated, then we don't have a pandemic emergency. Seriously, last years heroes aren't needed this year if hospitals are going to fire them. I've attended 4 public hearings, everybody packed in like sardines and nobody wearing masks. Most of the people at the hearings are old and nobody is worried anymore. Although my governor mandated masks indoors again, I don't wear one. I go to the gym and most people don't wear them. The worst violators are from Eastern Europe. They don't like control by way of BS. The reason most of you aren't triple masked and quadruple jabbed right now is because people like me who resist. Everybody who is complying is making the problem worse by giving government more control.

You are a part of the problem the US faces today, Billy B.  Without record numbers of hospitalizations in many cities, counties and states, there would be less demand for nurses.

Those who would give us essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin


Seriously guys, if you think the masks and vaccines are miracle cures, you don't need the government's permission to give yourself a little extra protection. Wear triple masks and get quadruple jabbed. I'm sticking with natural immunity and no masks.

Ben would have likely disagreed with your out of context usage today.


Quote
Our media isn't showing us what is going on in other countries. New Zealand had one COVID death this year and they're still under total lockdown. Australia has gone totalitarian. Truckers strike all over the country in protest. I've seen kids pulled from parents so the authorities can vaccinate them. People in France denied entry into a food market. Governments denying us benefits, rights, including the right to shop for food doesn't seem like a very caring government to me. Totalitarian governments would use a pandemic like this to gain more control and take away freedoms.

You have a penchant of trying to find the worst countries that fit your agenda, BillyB.  What you do not note is that most of these countries you complain about, neither affect you, nor do they have the problems your own country does dealing with the virus.

Quote
There's no such thing as QAnon. That was made up by the media to make Q look bad. All lies. Ask yourself why the media and Democrats would spend so much attention and years on this topic? Truth hurts them. Believing what the media says is going down a rabbit hole. If I read Q's posts in 2018, I would dismiss the predictions of election rigging to turn us into slaves, depopulation and control through pharma and vaccines. But now, seems like Q was right. The scary thing is that what we're seeing is not the worst they claimed will come from our leaders. They skimmed some uranium from the pile they sent to Russia and sent it to North Korea, Iran, and Syria and after a dirty bomb was created and used on a western city, we'd trace the isotopes back to Russia giving a deep state president support to start a major world war against Russia. That deep state president was thought to be Hillary. All these crisis we're seeing are engineered. It's a game for them. Afghanistan is the current game being played.

gibberish.

Quote
A video I posted earlier show how they erased Dr. Malone's history to make him look insignificant. Kinda like Stalin deleting pictures and rewriting history of people he didn't like. It's happening with a lot of people who don't go along with the narrative and it's getting worse to the point of being dangerous. Don't supply recent hit pieces on anti COVID vaccine doctors who never been against past vaccines. There is a good reason many doctors and scientists are against the COVID vaccine and have older articles talking about them that are honest. Dr. Malone has lots of patents and worked at Ft. Detrick which is the US miltary's place where they create biological and chemical weapons. He has a pretty good brain in his head.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2762315/

This article said Dr. Malone invented the MRNA delivery system. The Atlantic is a tool used by the Deep State to spread propaganda. Remember when they said their anonymous sources said Trump said dead soldiers were losers and suckers?

http://the-dna-universe.com/2021/04/15/the-history-of-mrna-applications/

More appeal to an authority that has no current work on the coronavirus, no studies, and no peer reviewed papers on the subject.


Quote
Aren't you guys alarmed that two high level FDA members resigned due to the White House running the vaccine booster show overstepping the FDA? BIG RED FLAG. I wasn't wrong when I said the government, not science is dictating events. The same guy who did Afghanistan wants to pump more experimental vaccines into your body before FDA approval. It makes more sense now government commercials say the vaccines are safe and effective contrary to FDA Fact sheets that say the significant risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown.

I hear Russia needs some hired help more familiar with FDA approvals.  Report back in a month what happened to these folks.

Quote
The more you take vaccines, the greater risk of getting ADE(Antibody Dependent Enhancement) which the disease is made worst by the vaccine. Because the vaccines don't stop infection, they are turning people into human petri dishes which makes anti vaccine variants as the virus learns to be vaccine created defenses. People who fight with their natural immune system do not create anti vaccine variants that will hurt vaxxers in the future.

Again, anyone that is infected has the potential of creating a variant.  There are close to 5000 variants identified so far.

Quote
After decades of research, no coronavirus or mRNA vaccine of any kind has every been approved for use on humans. Lots of injured and dead animals is why they fail. Learn from history or it's going to repeat except this time it'll be humans, not animals that get hurt. What are the chances they finally get it right on not one but THREE vaccines in America and dozens of vaccines elsewhere in the world all at the same time? With experimental vaccines there is an experiment. This could end badly but you don't have to participate. Better to sit back and watch crimes against humanity happening to other people instead of on your family.

You are trying to play Nostradamus by writing history before it happens.  Folks sell 'good' numbers for lotto as well.  History doesn't work that way, BillyB.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on September 02, 2021, 07:08:03 AM
  Maybe a better question to ask yourself is "why is this virus here and how did it get here?"
What took the virus so long to come? In the world there are countless trillions opportunities for a virus to mutate, why did it take this long for a virus to mutate into a more deadly form? 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 02, 2021, 11:09:47 AM
FP,

FT does make a good point.  Time is a factor.  From virus of the century, we're down to a decade or less.  Our extremely mobile population makes fast spreading possible.  The other side of the planet is only hours away.  In the 'old days', might take a month or even three, by then folks died along the way on ships and were thrown overboard, helping stop transmission and spread.

The 4000++ variants thus far with COVID-19 is not because this virus is somehow unique, but instead due to the large numbers of  hosts and transmissions.  Also consider this large number is only known because the scientists are collecting large numbers of samples to run through their gene machines.  We've been collecting samples in the animal world in an extremely limited fashion, so are able to detect very few variants, despite many being produced in the wild in animal hosts that aren't having swabs shoved up their noses.  Until now such expensive machines were only affordable via research grants, so relatively few were available.

Maybe now that the world has woken up to the true threat, excess capacity will be made available for more animal studies.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 02, 2021, 05:06:05 PM
Virus cases not improved here, virus & death count went down over the bank holiday but weren't accounted for fully. So count after bank holiday up taking into account those that weren't counted over the bank holiday. It's even looking like the virus infection rate & deaths may even be going up a bit. Schools go back next week so they might fuel the virus even more.

So just doing a quick calc, 30,000 counted infections a day as a rough average times by 30 days for a rough month mean 900,000 infections a month. We'll round it up to 1 million infections for easy maths. So it could take 5 years to go through 60 million people in a country of roughly 66 million people or so. Many infections many go unreported/unnoticed but even still these rough figures indicate that due to the rate of spread it may end up an almost continual thing for the time being of people being infected and then possibly being later reinfected just a year or so later possibly in some cases not even that.

So I'm not so sure that we will see an end to the current situation for a while. Don't know if many more people are coming forward to get vaccinated now or still holding out.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 03, 2021, 08:59:15 AM
What took the virus so long to come? In the world there are countless trillions opportunities for a virus to mutate, why did it take this long for a virus to mutate into a more deadly form? 

Fathertime!

Technically speaking, or scientifically speaking depending on your leanings - the virus itself alone isn't as deadly by itself...CDC reported only 6% of deaths was caused by COVID-19 alone.

Meaning, the person who was infected by COVID and eventually died because of it didn't have no other 'contributing' medical condition that brought about the fateful ending. They estimated in 2020 that the majority of the folks infected with COVID had, on average, 2.6 additional medical condition that ultimately caused the person's death. CDC changed this estimate now to be at 4.0 additional medical condition (on average) for 2021.

This information doesn't negate the veracity of COVID-19 as being the chief trigger to speed up the demise of people with additional medical condition. Often referred to as *high risk individuals*.

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html (http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html)

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article245382320.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article245382320.html)

So, if you fall unto the group described as having two or more 'medical conditions' described on CDC's link, and you seek additional precaution, then the available science at this time tells you vaccine maybe a calling to you.

I am unvaccinated, and having infected with this virus myself, and living through it within the week, I can tell you it felt as though this pest was browsing through my innards and organs looking for the weakest link. Especially in my lungs. You can feel it. You can also feel your autoimmune kicking in and battling it. It was bizarre. I think this is why you feel this intense feeling of fatigue.

I just really wish someone gag Tony Fauci altogether and shut him up. That idiot is the one that started all these confusing/contradicting messages that started the current mistrust and skepticism.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on September 03, 2021, 04:06:38 PM
FP,

FT does make a good point.  Time is a factor.  From virus of the century, we're down to a decade or less.  Our extremely mobile population makes fast spreading possible.  The other side of the planet is only hours away.  In the 'old days', might take a month or even three, by then folks died along the way on ships and were thrown overboard, helping stop transmission and spread.

The 4000++ variants thus far with COVID-19 is not because this virus is somehow unique, but instead due to the large numbers of  hosts and transmissions.  Also consider this large number is only known because the scientists are collecting large numbers of samples to run through their gene machines.  We've been collecting samples in the animal world in an extremely limited fashion, so are able to detect very few variants, despite many being produced in the wild in animal hosts that aren't having swabs shoved up their noses.  Until now such expensive machines were only affordable via research grants, so relatively few were available.

Maybe now that the world has woken up to the true threat, excess capacity will be made available for more animal studies.

No he doesn't and he misses the point entirely. So do you. The point is this virus and trying to compare it to other viruses that have been spread across the globe through time is pointless. What took it so long? Really? This virus would never have existed if not for leaders with a lab and a God complex. This virus isn't an accident and it is here purposely. The reaction to it and the power grabs as a result of it by those in power evidently is way over your head and his. If you would awaken for just a bit you might come to realize it.

Covid isn't an accident. It didn't morph in a wet market or escape from a level 4 lab. They are lying to you. The CDC can put up some flashy charts and graphs for you and you're in hook, line and sinker. The virus was unleashed with evil intent on mankind. I'm scared, really scared of the deaths that I fear are coming. Sticking everyone on earth with a poison called a vaccine isn't the answer.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 03, 2021, 04:18:33 PM
FP,

as your opinion, fine.  You want to pin the tail on the donkey? Fine as well, but the blindfold remains.  Maybe, someday it can be taken off, but till then we're all stuck with it.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on September 03, 2021, 04:28:22 PM
BC,
Your opinion fine. You do seem to have a knack for grasping the obvious while ignoring the even more obvious
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 03, 2021, 04:56:29 PM
FP,

My opinions are usually founded with facts and data, and not mere speculation.  I also don't pretend to know everything.  If something is not known, it is not known - remains an inarguable fact.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on September 03, 2021, 07:12:10 PM
This virus would never have existed if not for leaders with a lab and a God complex. This virus isn't an accident and it is here purposely. The reaction to it and the power grabs as a result of it by those in power evidently is way over your head and his. If you would awaken for just a bit you might come to realize it.
You do not KNOW that.  You may think you know, but you don't.    Virus are always around and mutating, and so this one is a bit worse than most. 



Covid isn't an accident. It didn't morph in a wet market or escape from a level 4 lab. They are lying to you. The CDC can put up some flashy charts and graphs for you and you're in hook, line and sinker. The virus was unleashed with evil intent on mankind. I'm scared, really scared of the deaths that I fear are coming. Sticking everyone on earth with a poison called a vaccine isn't the answer.
I think the vaccine probably does save/prolong lives.  I don't see anything sinister about it.   I really think you allow your imagination to run wild.  Think of all the crazy conspiracy theories you have been promoting here for years and years.  Nothing has really come to pass.    The 'poison'/vaccine is probably the best that can be done now from the top minds in the medical field.   Don't worry about all the deaths you fear are coming from the shot, probably a lot more from not getting it.   

Fathertime! 


Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on September 03, 2021, 08:34:46 PM
FP,

My opinions are usually founded with facts and data, and not mere speculation.  I also don't pretend to know everything.  If something is not known, it is not known - remains an inarguable fact.

You believe your opinions are usually founded on facts. That doesn't make them any more true. Many things are known but just ignored and that doesn't make them any less true. Think outside that box you've been trained to remain in
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 04, 2021, 04:05:06 AM
Many things are known but just ignored and that doesn't make them any less true. Think outside that box you've been trained to remain in

Those things 'known', however, are not based in fact.  You derive your 'facts' predominately from opinions of others, which is your issue.  The only things being 'ignored' are those that simply do not add up, or carry no substance with them.

Box thinkers such as yourself are easily convinced by the opinions of others, whereas free thinkers simply follow the facts, wherever they lead.  If I post an opinion, I'll usually state so using words like "I believe", "I think", "I feel", "IMO" etc.  You OTOH post opinions as indisputable facts with little or no substance to back them up.

You clearly state as fact:

Quote
This virus would never have existed if not for leaders with a lab and a God complex. This virus isn't an accident and it is here purposely.

My position is that the origin of the COVID 19 virus and how it came to circulation in the population, to date, has not been established. 

Anyone with a modicum of common sense can clearly identify from the two statements above who is boxed in and who is not.


Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 04, 2021, 12:05:46 PM
Technically speaking, or scientifically speaking depending on your leanings - the virus itself alone isn't as deadly by itself...CDC reported only 6% of deaths was caused by COVID-19 alone.

Meaning, the person who was infected by COVID and eventually died because of it didn't have no other 'contributing' medical condition that brought about the fateful ending. They estimated in 2020 that the majority of the folks infected with COVID had, on average, 2.6 additional medical condition that ultimately caused the person's death. CDC changed this estimate now to be at 4.0 additional medical condition (on average) for 2021.

This information doesn't negate the veracity of COVID-19 as being the chief trigger to speed up the demise of people with additional medical condition. Often referred to as *high risk individuals*.

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html (http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html)

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article245382320.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article245382320.html)

So, if you fall unto the group described as having two or more 'medical conditions' described on CDC's link, and you seek additional precaution, then the available science at this time tells you vaccine maybe a calling to you.

I am unvaccinated, and having infected with this virus myself, and living through it within the week, I can tell you it felt as though this pest was browsing through my innards and organs looking for the weakest link. Especially in my lungs. You can feel it. You can also feel your autoimmune kicking in and battling it. It was bizarre. I think this is why you feel this intense feeling of fatigue.

I just really wish someone gag Tony Fauci altogether and shut him up. That idiot is the one that started all these confusing/contradicting messages that started the current mistrust and skepticism.

Sounds like you were lucky GQ, had it found something you could be a goner. Your age probably put you a little more at risk as well although younger people have succumbed to the virus of course. Do you still feel that not getting vaccinated was worth the risk? Considering that you might have ended up as one of the unlucky ones.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 09, 2021, 10:49:01 AM
Biden's 9-day directive concerning investigating of the lab leak theory had come and gone without much attention and fervor. At least not until 2 days ago when the Intercept released documents it received under the FOIA suit vindicating Sen. Rand Paul, whom it originally portrayed as a 'liar' for accusing Fauci of financing GOF research at Wuhan that suggests could've started the pandemic, that evidently had instead casted further aspersion towards Mr. Pinocchio himself, Dr. Anthony Fauci.


Why that idiot is not deep in jail today is beyond me...


Intercept's report:
http://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/ (http://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/)


Glenn Greenwald's attack on the Intercept:
[/size]http://www.foxnews.com/media/glenn-greenwald-intercept-details-us-coronavirus-research-china (http://www.foxnews.com/media/glenn-greenwald-intercept-details-us-coronavirus-research-china)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: tfcrew on September 09, 2021, 03:12:08 PM
  Will probably help-------
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 09, 2021, 03:17:06 PM
At the moment this seems like a virus without end here in the UK. About roughly 38,000 a day recorded infections & on average 100 people dying per day from the virus. Been like that for about the last two months or so.

At that rate if we went like that for a year roughly 14 million infections for a year in a country of roughly 66 million or so inhabitants. Then of course we might get variants in that time. Whether they might be any variants of significance who knows.

Possibly there may be a lot of people infected that don't know it but I wonder if for the foreseeable future we might just be trapped in a virus loop with no end. Can only hope that it runs out of steam or a more permanent solution is found I guess.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: tfcrew on September 09, 2021, 03:33:02 PM
At the moment this seems like a virus without end here in the UK. About roughly 38,000 a day recorded infections & on average 100 people dying per day from the virus. 
This is absolutely terrible!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/united-kingdom-covid-cases.html
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on September 10, 2021, 04:50:50 AM



Dr. Kerry Chant, who is Australia’s chief health officer in New South Wales said yesterday morning:
“We will be looking at what contact tracing looks like in the New World Order.”
Well if that isn’t a Freudian slip, I don’t know what is…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_6H6s25ums

I suspect leftists Youtube will purge this soon

(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51443185884_d74b60c01d_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 10, 2021, 05:17:01 AM
This is absolutely terrible!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/united-kingdom-covid-cases.html

Considering the UK peak 7-day deaths without the vaccine was over 10 times higher, the current 100 deaths isn't good, but not terrible either.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on September 10, 2021, 05:27:00 AM
At the moment this seems like a virus without end here in the UK. About roughly 38,000 a day recorded infections & on average 100 people dying per day from the virus. Been like that for about the last two months or so.

At that rate if we went like that for a year roughly 14 million infections for a year in a country of roughly 66 million or so inhabitants. Then of course we might get variants in that time. Whether they might be any variants of significance who knows.

Possibly there may be a lot of people infected that don't know it but I wonder if for the foreseeable future we might just be trapped in a virus loop with no end. Can only hope that it runs out of steam or a more permanent solution is found I guess.


Frankly I think these numbers, other than the population of the UK, are B.S. Here in tiny Georgia a population one-twentieth of the UK claims the daily death rate was 80 but is now 60.


The country then reported 2571 coronavirus cases, 3668 recoveries, and 60 deaths on Wednesday, as a result of 29,449 tests conducted.

]Frankly little Georgia is exaggerating their daily death toll. I suspect the UK does the same. These politicians need to justify why they destroyed the lives and businesses with their lockdown orders that DO NOT WORK


http://georgiatoday.ge/corona-updates-as-the-situation-improves-certain-restrictions-to-be-lifted/ (http://georgiatoday.ge/corona-updates-as-the-situation-improves-certain-restrictions-to-be-lifted/) 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 10, 2021, 09:17:23 AM
Sounds like you were lucky GQ, had it found something you could be a goner. Your age probably put you a little more at risk as well although younger people have succumbed to the virus of course. Do you still feel that not getting vaccinated was worth the risk? Considering that you might have ended up as one of the unlucky ones.


Lucky?!? Hhmm..who knows, maybe I am. Short of me saying it wasn't a big deal, but IMO, it wasn't  big deal. The thought of dying never once entered my thoughts. Don't get me wrong, it sucks, but it wasn't a big deal for me. Didn't even took one aspirin or anything else.


I felt 'crappy', totally worn-out waking up, but never missed a day going to the office and working. I have my own personal office separated from the main headquarter so I can freely conduct my work free from all the buzz of everyday office function. I mass emailed everyone I had COVID and instructed everyone to stay away until further notice.


What I experienced is, IMO, was neither better or worse had I been vaccinated. I know people who'd been vaccinated and was laid out longer, and had a worse experience with it than I did. Lasted less than a week for me, with a 6-hour fever at 99.7, if you'd even call that a 'fever'. Never reached triple-digits.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: tfcrew on September 10, 2021, 09:51:48 PM
"Mandating vaccine will trigger people to voluntarily accept it"   
                                       Anthony Fauci
                                           
http://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/dr-fauci-on-biden-s-plan-to-end-the-covid-pandemic-120566341802
   
2:10
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Maxx2 on September 11, 2021, 01:31:22 AM
"Mandating vaccine will trigger people to voluntarily accept it"   
                                       Anthony Fauci
                                           
http://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/dr-fauci-on-biden-s-plan-to-end-the-covid-pandemic-120566341802 (http://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/dr-fauci-on-biden-s-plan-to-end-the-covid-pandemic-120566341802)
   
2:10
 


There is a joke in the US Army about being assigned to be a volunteer. Ask BilyB he would know.   
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 11, 2021, 10:15:27 AM



Our all volunteer military shouldn't be forced to take an experimental anything. Remember when they were told to sit in the vicinity of a nuke bomb to see how radiation affected their bodies? Haven't we learned anything?


White House, Congress and their staff members, the Postal Service, CDC, FDA, and big Pharma employees are exempt from having to take the experimental vaccines.


French Nobel Peace Prize winner and founder of HIV said they've known coronavirus vaccines to cause neurological problems that can be passed down to future generations.


I've talked to two women now that know a total of 4 women who lost their babies after taking the vaccine.


Fauci was on CNN yesterday and they told him Israeli study shows natural immunity superior to vaccine immunity. Fauci had no answers to that. Our government isn't interested in studying natural immunity. They want 100% of the people vaccinated except those in their group or an important voter base such as USPS.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on September 11, 2021, 10:41:11 AM
.

I've talked to two women now that know a total of 4 women who lost their babies after taking the vaccine.

Several women have lost their babies after walking on the beach.

Many others have lost their babies after eating ice cream.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 12, 2021, 02:01:47 AM

Frankly I think these numbers, other than the population of the UK, are B.S. Here in tiny Georgia a population one-twentieth of the UK claims the daily death rate was 80 but is now 60.


The country then reported 2571 coronavirus cases, 3668 recoveries, and 60 deaths on Wednesday, as a result of 29,449 tests conducted.

]Frankly little Georgia is exaggerating their daily death toll. I suspect the UK does the same. These politicians need to justify why they destroyed the lives and businesses with their lockdown orders that DO NOT WORK


http://georgiatoday.ge/corona-updates-as-the-situation-improves-certain-restrictions-to-be-lifted/ (http://georgiatoday.ge/corona-updates-as-the-situation-improves-certain-restrictions-to-be-lifted/)

The difference is that most Georgians can't afford the vaccine and neither can the government afford it for them, hence the death rate being relatively near the UK's but having a smaller population. Back before the UK had the vaccine last year we were losing 1,000 people a day at one point. Back last year out government went into lockdown too late and went too quickly in lifting lockdown measures particularly for pubs, bars and restaurants. Many people lost their lives as a result of trying to save sone of the owners of pubs, bars & restaurants from going under. The infection rate climbed to silly figures running up to Christmas and we still had no vaccine released for it. Only after Christmas in January & February did the vaccine drive really start rolling to any significance then it was just for the elderly. Point is that letting the virus run loose only makes the problem worse to the economy anyway. Either the government ends up as having little choice in going into a hard lockdown for longer as a result or its just let to run loose as in Brazil & India, many more lives lost and upset and devastation to people lives not least to say if the damage to the economy in all these lives lost anyway.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 13, 2021, 02:31:20 AM
Another vaccine soon to be available though not for us as the UK government has cancelled it's order apparently:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/09/13/uk-terminates-covid-19-vaccine-contract-with-valneva-over-alleged-breach-of-obligation

Looks like some French developed vaccine called Valneva. Can't be sure from the write up as it depends how they write it but it doesn't sound like it's a mRNA one. The way they write it, it sounds more like the traditional method or version off.

Another source on the vaccine:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-press-release-from-valneva-reporting-phase-1-and-2-data-of-its-covid-19-vaccine-candidate/

Apparently it's created using tried & tested methods and may be better against future variants so could be a good one:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/whats-the-valneva-covid-19-vaccine-the-french-shot-thats-supposed-to-be-variant-proof-160345
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on September 13, 2021, 07:33:56 AM
Several women have lost their babies after walking on the beach.

Many others have lost their babies after eating ice cream.

100% of people who have cancer drank water and 100%
of drowning victims are believed to victims of water as well.
Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on September 13, 2021, 07:47:18 AM
(http://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/09/918/516/Political-Cartoon-9.13.21-Something-Stinks.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)


(http://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/09/918/516/2CARTOON-9.10.21-9.10.21-9.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 13, 2021, 08:55:18 AM
This is just #@#! Bullsh!t!

http://twitter.com/theeliklein/status/1355982107026333698 (http://twitter.com/theeliklein/status/1355982107026333698)

My vaccinated bro gave me COVID nicely wrapped up in a loving red ribbon bow! Haven't this Fauci idiot heard of what happened at LA's Comedy Store recently about a vaccinated idiot super spreader? Why they spread this moronic misinformation to the public is beyond me.

...and by now, if this moron doesn't know much of anything by now, he ought to keep his gawdamned mouth shut for a while about any part of this matter.

http://twitter.com/TheEliKlein/status/1436387479469404164/video/1 (http://twitter.com/TheEliKlein/status/1436387479469404164/video/1)

Proven cases in Israel:

Quote
The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.

[/size]http://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital (http://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 13, 2021, 10:19:42 AM
Quote
six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus.


Well duh.  If you are able to go through a bout of COVID, of course you will have greater immunity than you would with a vaccine, which replicates a virus.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 14, 2021, 07:58:51 AM
Some more recent data on who is passing away from the virus, vaccinated to unvaccinated:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths#scso=_ZbZAYZzaDpH87_UPue-5uA8105:0
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on September 15, 2021, 09:59:09 AM
Team Biden says, "If you’re in private business you’ve got to get vaccinated,
but if you’re in the postal union you don’t have to. If you’re an illegal
immigrant you don’t have to."
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 15, 2021, 11:15:49 AM
Team Biden says, "If you’re in private business you’ve got to get vaccinated,
but if you’re in the postal union you don’t have to. If you’re an illegal
immigrant you don’t have to."

These are one of the reasons there's a great distrust in the US government these days. This administration is certainly not helping to tamper this issue. IF any, it is making it worse.

It's the moronic mandates that is galvanizing that this pandemic has become political beyond explanation. It had already forsake any known science to carry on its nefarious intent.

1. FDA personnel and scientists quit because of the stupid WH announcement of booster shot despite lack of science if its even necessary.

2. There is known science that unvaccinated people previously infected with the virus and survived, have a much better immunity and less likely to transmit the virus than people who had been fully immunized. YET, the woke population and the stupid politicians behind them would like see silly mandates solely between the vaccinated to the unvaccinated. If a COVID-survived, unvaccinated person is proven to be 'safer' than a fully vaccinated person, why shouldn't this 'person' have as much, if not greater privilege, than a vaccinated sheep?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 15, 2021, 01:38:54 PM
Team Biden says, "If you’re in private business you’ve got to get vaccinated,
but if you’re in the postal union you don’t have to. If you’re an illegal
immigrant you don’t have to."



Also exempt are White House Staff, Congress's and their Staff, employees that work for the CDC, FDA, big pharma employees, and 100K Afghan refugees. It's not about safety if they are making exemptions. Actually those who are exempt are allowed to keep poisonous vaccines from entering their bodies so safety is considered for them. Biden needs Congress's votes on his policies and needs to keep certain voter bases happy. He'll CRAP on the rest of us. if Biden truly cares about safety, he needs to fire Fauci and put in somebody the anti vax crowd has faith in.

Also, they really don't care about people's lives elsewhere because they are considering giving unnecessary boosters to people from nations with money over vaccinated for the first time of those living in Africa.

Did you guys know the boosters are outdated vaccines that were designed for the Alpha? To truly combat the Delta and 2 dozens other variants out there they need to create all new vaccines for each variant. Vaccines are specific for one virus but if you let your natural immune system beat the virus, it will handle ALL variants.

Top scientists say we are headed to depopulation. Vaccinating a healthy population will diminish any protection the vaccine may give which in turn kill many elderly in the future since only anti vaccine variants would be the killers. Similar to the agriculture industry, they are careful about overusing antibiotics for animals which could create a superbug which will be a bigger killer for them and us. Vaccinating a healthy population was never a tactic used to combat past pandemics and epidemics. Only the most vulnerable should be vaccinated.


Not only did 2 top FDA officials resigned saying the White House is ignoring the FDA, now 18 senior FDA officials are speaking out against the White House. It's political and the recent actions we've seen taken has nothing to do with science or safety.


Look around the world and what do we see. People are denied rights to buy food, go to work, travel, or get medical care if they're not vaccinated. Governments are using this virus to obtain more control and punish the unvaccinated who are resisting. We are living in dangerous times. What if government starts denying people the right to buy food, work, travel, or get medical care because they smoke too much, drink too much, are obese, or make other unhealthy lifestyle choices that affect their and other people's health? Give the government an inch, they'll take a mile. Soon everybody will lose freedoms for one reason or another.

CEO of Pfizer announced they have a twice a day pill to be taken to combat COVID. How nice of them to care about us so much! Who here is going to get 3-4 experimental jabs and take 730 experimental pills every year to assist the failed vaccines? The new slick tv commercials will tell you to do your part to combat the virus and protect others. Hire Lebron to deliver the message. It worked last time so it may work again.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 16, 2021, 06:58:26 AM
http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58510519.amp

Some more news about the Valneva vaccine and some of the reason the UK cancelled the deal. Apparently they reckon it would have never passed UK Medical board approval for use. There must be a real problem for them to say that. The Valneva vaccine apparently uses the traditional method rather than mRNA. It's made by a French company so don't know if that plays into it, recent news is that the French have been dumped by the Australian government in supplying news submarines in favour of a US/UK deal instead. Possibly wanting the French cut out of stuff in general maybe? Whether Astra Zenaca or someone else might have similar in the works to Valneva who knows?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 16, 2021, 10:45:24 AM
This latest news seem so absurd that I may well have misunderstood the gist of it altogether.


The WH offered Nicki Minaj a phone call to assure her that the vaccine is safe because Nicki's cousin's boyfriend suffered swollen testicles allegedly after getting immunized. He (Nicki's cousin's boyfriend) apparently 'was cheating' on Nicki Minaj's cousin when he found out about his swollen balls! Which he blamed on the vaccine. It actually even involved Trinidad-Tobago's health minister to make an official announcement to the matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uldikGgCTec


It's because of this that made Nicki apprehensive about getting vaccinated resulting in her missing the MET GALA.


WTF! Are you liberals/woke populist had really become this silly?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 16, 2021, 10:49:31 AM
 >:(  #BALLGATE?


http://twitter.com/nickiminaj/status/1438249396571807744 (http://twitter.com/nickiminaj/status/1438249396571807744)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 16, 2021, 11:03:44 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-west-struggle-beds-critically-083011541.html

Quote
Idaho hospitals are so overwhelmed with the surge in coronavirus cases that doctors and nurses have to contact dozens of regional hospitals across the West in hopes of finding places to transfer individual critical patients.

The situation has grown so bad that the Idaho Department of Health and Wellness announced Thursday that the entire state is in a hospital resource crisis, permitting medical facilities to ration health care and triage patients.
Quote
The hospital received permission from the state to begin rationing care last week. That's all in response to the Covid surge that in recent weeks has taken over much of Idaho — a state with one of the nation's lowest vaccination rates.

Quote
The need for ICU bed space is affecting a range of patients: those suffering from Covid, as well as people who have had heart attacks or strokes or were involved in accidents, for instance.

This should not be happening.. not today, after all we've been through and learned from others.  Yet here we are.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 17, 2021, 08:25:15 AM
Just had this year's flu vaccine this morning, first of the queue :D
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 17, 2021, 08:34:15 AM
I'll be getting the flu shot as well, along with a J&J Janssen top up for covid.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 17, 2021, 09:00:55 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-west-struggle-beds-critically-083011541.html (http://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-west-struggle-beds-critically-083011541.html)

This should not be happening.. not today, after all we've been through and learned from others.  Yet here we are.


There's no emergency when they threaten last years heroes who worked unvaccinated with termination if they don't get vaccinated this year. When they need every single medical personnel regardless of vaccination status, that's when you know we have an emergency.



In other news Israel is pound for pound the most vaxxed nation and the most infected nation. You vaxxers are making it worse. Their summer outbreak is worse than their winter outbreak when nobody was vaxxed. This month's UK data shows vaccinated people are dying more than unvaccinated. It's been the same month to month.

Why are vaxxed people so worried about the unvaxxed? They feel the protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected  to use the protection that didn't protect the protected. Do you guys know why there are two dozen anti vaccine variants out there increasing infections and prolonging the pandemic? Because they turned people into human petri dishes allowing the vaccine to learn vaccine defenses and mutate. There isn't a single anti natural immune system variant out there because natural immunity is superior and doesn't allow the virus to learn how to beat it.

In 2019 an interviewer asked Fauci if he should wear a mask when an infectious disease is running loose. Fauci laugh and told him not to do anything paranoid. Fauci told him to get nutrition and exercise which will get him a strong immunity system.

My county will force the entertainment industry, restaurants, and fitness clubs to require vaccine passports from customers next month. I guess they want to punish people who don't vaccinate with less fun, less food, and no exercise. Less of everything increases depression, stress, and weakens the immune system making us more likely to get sick and die. They aren't making exceptions for the superior natural immunity some of us have or religious exemptions. My county's website says they won't require ID with the vaccine passport. They state "In our stakeholder engagement, we received feedback that ID checks are associated with trauma stemming from racist and discriminatory practices, plus can lead to distrust for many communities." It's probably why they don't require ID when we apply to vote and when we vote. Don't want to offend minorities.

You may be in an abusive relationship government if they........

http://t.me/PatrickMByrne/1821


If for 60 years they failed to get a rocket to a moon causing countless harm and death to the pilots and passengers in each attempt but in this year they say all rockets are safe and effective, would you take your family on that rocket? Over the last 60 years they failed in creating a safe coronavirus vaccines due to the massive harm and death caused to animals. This is history and it's important to learn from history or it'll repeat but the biggest crime against humanity is about to happen because the harm and death is not going to happen to animals, but in humans. The risks and benefits of the vaccine are unknown according to the FDA but we do know the history of previous attempts at creating a coronavirus vaccine. We know the vaccine don't prevent infection and doesn't prevent transmission. We know it creates the variants who learn to beat vaccine defenses which in turn makes infections skyrocket this summer much worse than last summer when nobody was vaccinated. The real crime isn't going to happen now but in the future. People may die 5-10 years prematurely but big business and governments don't care. Less pension and medical benefits they have to pay out for old farts who can't produce anymore. We know what happened to lab animals in the past. What are the chances all coronavirus in the past were 100% failures and they now claim 100% of the coronavirus vaccines in the world are a success. Not possible. They are lying to us. They know the history of what happened to lab animals injected with coronavirus vaccines. A lot of people are going to die because of this experiment. When this is over, people need to be hung.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 17, 2021, 10:55:14 AM
I'll be getting the flu shot as well, along with a J&J Janssen top up for covid.

Well done BC, I may have to come over and join you for the J&J vaccine ;D

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2021/05/26/1025361/us-promoting-vaccine-tourism-new-york/amp/

Probably won't need to take a vaccine vacation to the US for a J&J booster for a few more months. Plus it depends on my time & finance available.

Reckon I will probably be ok even though protection from the vaccines start diminishing after 5-6 months there will probably still be enough protection left to not be too concerned. Though think one recent study suggested that protection may even start diminishing in as little as 4 months. Anyway will see how it goes, so hopefully I should be ok for avoiding fly this winter. I'm going to keep up with my mask wearing in public spaces indoors and using gloves and hand sanitizer gel as well as trying to mix too much with others so hopefully all should go ok and I'll avoid being one of these people ending up on a staycation in hospital this winter. Can't think of anything worse than being stuck in one of those places.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on September 17, 2021, 11:06:16 AM
I got my flu shot last week.
Wanted to get it early as previously the rule was couldn't get Covid shot within X weeks of receiving flu shot, and I wanted to get booster Covid shot as soon as eligible.
But after getting flu shot and telling above to the gal, she said the advisory had changed and now no waiting time after flu shot to get Covid shot.
However, wife doesn't want the two at same time as one year she had bad reaction from getting flu and pneumonia shots at same time
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 17, 2021, 11:17:35 AM
Well done BC, I may have to come over and join you for the J&J vaccine ;D

Probably won't need to take a vaccine vacation to the US for a J&J booster for a few more months. Plus it depends on my time & finance available.


The US wouldn't let you in anyway.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 17, 2021, 02:27:56 PM
I got my flu shot last week.
Wanted to get it early as previously the rule was couldn't get Covid shot within X weeks of receiving flu shot, and I wanted to get booster Covid shot as soon as eligible.
But after getting flu shot and telling above to the gal, she said the advisory had changed and now no waiting time after flu shot to get Covid shot.
However, wife doesn't want the two at same time as one year she had bad reaction from getting flu and pneumonia shots at same time

Edit: I erred on this post regarding the for/against voting. It S/B 16-against and 2-for


*************************************************


Just released.

FDA Advisory Committee voted against booster shot against the general public except those 65+ Y.O. and individuals at high risk of severe illness, and only for Pfizer vaccine.

The 'vote' count for this was 16-for and 2-against. This, baby, is just damned *unnerving*.

Why is this being conducted on an opinion-based voting system? Isn't the science behind the vaccines a decided, absolute science after immunizing hundreds of millions of people?

Excuse me, but this just appears too sinister for me.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 17, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Edit: I erred on this post regarding the for/against voting. It S/B 16-against and 2-for


*************************************************


Just released.

FDA Advisory Committee voted against booster shot against the general public except those 65+ Y.O. and individuals at high risk of severe illness, and only for Pfizer vaccine.

The 'vote' count for this was 16-for and 2-against. This, baby, is just damned *unnerving*.

Why is this being conducted on an opinion-based voting system? Isn't the science behind the vaccines a decided, absolute science after immunizing hundreds of millions of people?

Excuse me, but this just appears too sinister for me.


 There's hope some people working in government/FDA are doing the responsible thing. Before the FDA denied approval for the boosters to people under 65, at least 2 top FDA personnel resigned and 18 spoke out against our government trying to influence their decisions.
Some think we are living in modern times and evolved into better people and our government wouldn't do bad things to people. Less than 50 years ago our government had the Tuskegee study conducted where they injected syphilis into black males. Before that they parked our troops near H-bombs going off to see what radiation does to their bodies.
Project Veritas will make an announcement Monday. They have a whistleblower pertaining to the vaccines. Don't expect the media to report it. Expect big tech to censor it. A few social media places like Gab and Telegram won't censor it.
 There's a  virus called "Hunger" out there. It kills many more people everyday than COVID. The vaccine is called "Food" and its easily created in abundance but there isn't an urgent need by governments to distribute the vaccine. Isn't it a goal of theirs to save lives? Maybe its not their goal.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 17, 2021, 07:03:59 PM



Here's the 8 hour FDA meeting that was shown live. FDA officials talked about the data and ultimately ruled those under 65 don't need boosters. This video should start in the place I set but if not go to the 4 hour, 21 minute and 24 second mark to see the data from three sources that shows more people are dying from the vaccine than lives saved.


Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee – 9/17/2021 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFph7-6t34M&t=15684s)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on September 17, 2021, 07:14:05 PM
It seems here in Southern California the noose is tightening further on those without vaccines.   The new rules are going to be no more going to bars, or large events of 10,000 or more people without a vaccine.   I sometimes go to a local pub for lunch across from my shop.  If they follow the rules, I will no longer be welcome.   I'm also no longer welcome at the facility where my father lives.   

I continue to hear conflicting reports on the vaccines and their effectiveness for the latest variants.   In Israel it seems their emergency rooms are flooding with vaccinated people so I've read. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 17, 2021, 07:23:42 PM

Why is this being conducted on an opinion-based voting system? Isn't the science behind the vaccines a decided, absolute science after immunizing hundreds of millions of people?

Excuse me, but this just appears too sinister for me.

They do have the data from studies, but two of the members differed on the approach, along with risk/benefit analysis.

It is known that immune systems of older folks is slower or weaker.  Take flu vaccinations as an example, where older folks are basically given four times the amount of antigen in a normal dose to better prod their immune systems into a higher gear.

Since mRNA vaccines disappear quickly, two doses some time apart are given to build up antibodies.  Although antibodies wane, T-cells should 'remember' for a longer period, and likely 'learn' better in younger folks, while the older generation needs to take an extra class to make up.

IMO this more conservative route is prudent.  Better to use available vaccines for those that haven't got it yet.

Just watched a report from Idaho, where ICUs are full.  It was stated that 98% were unvaccinated.  I suspect the 2% that were vaccinated may have been among the older crowd, or those with compromised immune systems.

Interesting NOVA episode on bats http://www.pbs.org/video/bat-superpowers-nfuph6/

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 17, 2021, 09:26:31 PM
Although antibodies wane, T-cells should 'remember' for a longer period, and likely 'learn' better in younger folks, while the older generation needs to take an extra class to make up.



Although Boris Johnson said the vaccines aren't reducing infections or death let's pretend there is a benefit against COVID. You're ignoring the fact the vaccines compromise the immune system against everything else. Killer T-cells are reduced. Idaho pathologist and owner of a lab said he's seeing more mono, shingles, herpes and a 20 times increase in cancer among those who are vaccinated. History on coronavirus vaccines have shown us lab animals get weakened immune systems from them. They've known it for decades. They can't plead ignorance. They know what they are doing. We are headed into winter when people's immune systems are at their weakest. The vaccines have weakened hundreds of millions if not a billion people's immune systems further which will lead to massive death from a variety of pathogens.

http://t.me/jsolomonReports/705


RT news says study shows increase chances of getting HIV. Another study that shows the vaccines compromise natural immunity.

http://www.rt.com/news/504224-covid19-vaccine-candidates-hiv/


Vermont is the state with the highest percentage of population vaccinated in America and like Israel which is the country with the highest percentage of population vaccinated, Vermont also has a higher infection rate this summer than last winter. That is unheard of with infectious diseases. The vaccine is making the disease worse.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 17, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
This is probably the most detailed explanation of statistics on Covid in Israel that I have read.

http://tinyurl.com/y75j36fp
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 18, 2021, 03:12:54 AM
Billy you need to become a vaccine junkie like me and BC :D

Well, I had a bit of a reaction to the Flu vaccine overnight. Temperature not fluctuating like last year that much but a queasy feeling and felt myself under strain a bit countering the dead virus. This morning much better but not quite gone yet, think it will be in the next hour or so. So a bit of a pain to go through that but better than having the Flu for real and quite short lived I think. So probably a small inconvenience to pay for what may turn out to be worthwhile protection.

Anyway glad that it's pretty much over with now. Apparently here in the UK this year's vaccine used a better process making the flu vaccine more effective. Used a cell cultured approach rather than egg based apparently. The woman that created the AZ vaccine also developed this new approach, still traditional tried & tested method. So handy we have her on the job I guess.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 18, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
Well, I had a bit of a reaction to the Flu vaccine overnight. Temperature not fluctuating like last year that much but a queasy feeling and felt myself under strain a bit countering the dead virus. This morning much better but not quite gone yet, think it will be in the next hour or so. So a bit of a pain to go through that but better than having the Flu for real and quite short lived I think. So probably a small inconvenience to pay for what may turn out to be worthwhile protection.



I took a flu vaccine last year. The vaccine experts I follow aren't anti vaccine and give them to the kids. If scientists correctly calculate the flu strain that will circulate of the season and create a vaccine for it. When the flu vaccine isn't effective, it's not because it's a bad vaccine but them miscalculated which strain would be the one that would circulate the most. I remember at a clinic having a choice of two different flu vaccines but only allowed to have one injected in me. I chose the one the Army was going to give veterans for free. The health organization for the military calculated a different strain was going to be dominate from what another health organization figured.




Thanks to the moderator who brought back my post #182. It's not an easy thing for some people to read because it'll sink in that they could be the victims of the greatest crime against humanity there ever was. The history of coronaviruses vaccines shown them to be ALL bad based on the harm and death caused to animals. Short term studies and real time data  from use of the vaccines are showing us the damage done to human immune systems leading to other problems and long term studies will reveal more but it will be too late to reverse the damage which will be permanent. I am confident this experiment will end like the others and unfortunately this experiment isn't done on animals.




We need to let our immune systems fight the virus weakening its effect on us to the point it's another harmless coronavirus that causes the common cold. Humanity beat coronaviruses in the past this way and we can do it again. Our immune systems won't let the virus mutate into an anti immune system variant. Because the vaccines don't immunize and turns our bodies into petri dishes, the coronavirus is allowed to live and evolve creating all kinds of anti vaccine variants which prolongs the pandemic and will get more people killed. Add to the fact vaccinated people's compromised immune systems allow all kinds of other pathogens to infect the body, life expectancy shortens which leads to world depopulation just as leading vaccine experts predict.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 18, 2021, 11:42:19 AM
This is a breakdown of statistics from my province on recent COVID hospitalizations. We are going through a surge, with more hospitalizations than at any time since the start of the COVID crisis. Note that this is a crisis of the unvaccinated.

http://tinyurl.com/ym332jtb
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 19, 2021, 02:34:44 AM

I took a flu vaccine last year. The vaccine experts I follow aren't anti vaccine and give them to the kids. If scientists correctly calculate the flu strain that will circulate of the season and create a vaccine for it. When the flu vaccine isn't effective, it's not because it's a bad vaccine but them miscalculated which strain would be the one that would circulate the most. I remember at a clinic having a choice of two different flu vaccines but only allowed to have one injected in me. I chose the one the Army was going to give veterans for free. The health organization for the military calculated a different strain was going to be dominate from what another health organization figured.

Flucelvax Tetra was the one they used this year apparently different to the one they used the previous year. The leaflet says it's prepared in cell cultures and therefore egg free. After a nit too bad early afternoon yesterday lethargy, queasyness and feeling weak kicked in again went on all of the later afternoon and into the evening before tailing off a bit. After a good night's sleep it's all gone so with a bit of luck should be fine from here on out :)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 19, 2021, 04:10:31 AM

Although Boris Johnson said the vaccines aren't reducing infections or death let's pretend there is a benefit against COVID. You're ignoring the fact the vaccines compromise the immune system against everything else. Killer T-cells are reduced. Idaho pathologist and owner of a lab said he's seeing more mono, shingles, herpes and a 20 times increase in cancer among those who are vaccinated. History on coronavirus vaccines have shown us lab animals get weakened immune systems from them. They've known it for decades. They can't plead ignorance. They know what they are doing. We are headed into winter when people's immune systems are at their weakest. The vaccines have weakened hundreds of millions if not a billion people's immune systems further which will lead to massive death from a variety of pathogens.

Quote
We asked Cole to provide support for those claims, and he referred us to a 2018 paper published in the journal Nature Reviews Drug Discovery that reviewed trials and studies of various, earlier mRNA vaccines.

But that paper doesn’t support his statement.

Norbert Pardi, a research assistant professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, was the lead author of the paper. He told us in an email, “No publications demonstrate that mRNA vaccines cause cancer or autoimmune diseases.”

http://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/scicheck-idaho-doctor-makes-baseless-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/


Quote
RT news says study shows increase chances of getting HIV. Another study that shows the vaccines compromise natural immunity.

http://www.rt.com/news/504224-covid19-vaccine-candidates-hiv/

The article is 10 months old, refers to vaccine candidates under consideration, none of which are in use today.

Quote
Vermont is the state with the highest percentage of population vaccinated in America and like Israel which is the country with the highest percentage of population vaccinated, Vermont also has a higher infection rate this summer than last winter. That is unheard of with infectious diseases. The vaccine is making the disease worse.

You again fail to take into consideration lockdowns and other mitigating efforts/factors in your analysis, along with ignoring the effects of the Delta variant that was not prevalent back then, and testing that was minimized as tests were scarce.  In other words you wrongly attempt to make the data fit your agenda.
Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on September 19, 2021, 09:11:53 AM
The article is 10 months old, refers to vaccine candidates under consideration,
none of which are in use today.

I haven't really gotten involved in the debate about Covid, the vaccines,
the best treatments etc. This whole things seems more about control of
the population/economy rather than fighting a virus.

The CDC and that quack Fauci have flopped on every single thing that
they've ever said. Team Biden was going to have a crack team figure
out what if anything China's role was going to be but what they were
really doing is a coverup to take the issue out of the news for a few
months. Why don't they want to know what happened? This virus cost
the US hundreds of billions of dollars (maybe more) to our economy.

I am convinced that nobody really has a good answer about what we should
do. I am going to get the jabs because I want to travel internationally.
I didn't read the 10 month old article but relying on that would be just as
useful as relying on anything else in my opinion.

You guys can go on debating how many fairies can dance on the head of
a pin, but I am convinced nobody knows anything and have better things
to do with my time.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 19, 2021, 10:12:42 AM
I agree Bill all the arguing about the ins & outs of the Coronavirus isn't really going anywhere. People believe what they believe and arguing till blue in the face won't change anyone's opinion. It's pretty well known what the views of the anti-vaxx group are and everyone else. I think we're pretty much at a standstill in terms of the arguments with everything in stalemate. No point repeating the same arguments over and over again. Within the next 6 months or so we will likely see if a more dangerous variant emerges if that is even possible or if the virus problem receeds. Long term we will only know over the course of the next few years how ongoing this Coronavirus situation is going to be. Until then we are pretty much just stuck with dealing with the virus day to day and arguing over it won't make any difference to that. As Bill rightly says better to just get on with life and for us that means chasing FSW :D

Anyway, here is some advice for the upcoming winter flu season if anyone is interested. Appears you yanks pay a lot more for your flu jabs than us Brits, I only paid £14.99 through Boots (a UK pharmacy chain) and that was for the non egg based one.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/17/flu-season-2021-might-be-worse-due-to-covid-when-to-get-flu-vaccine.html
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on September 19, 2021, 11:02:04 AM
I don't know any more about vaccines than anyone else here.

But I don't think it is logical to criticize any of the medical professionals who are involved with the project or those who are trying to get out info to the public.

The virus was new, and just when we might have gotten a handle on it, mutations started showing up.

So obviously the situation has been changing as we move along, and the speed of the change has been increasing also.

In any scientific investigation, the findings and the predictions are going to change as the empirical evidence changes.

I don't find any fault with the professionals involved in our Covid investigation and treatment situations.

Politicians can be held to some fault when they get ahead of the science in telling us what will happen.

But, if I were a politician, I doubt I could do any better than past, current and future politicians with regard to trying to keep the public informed about a quickly evolving situation.

And it is just plain nonsense to refer to ideas that are just plain nonsense.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 19, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
This is a breakdown of statistics from my province on recent COVID hospitalizations. We are going through a surge, with more hospitalizations than at any time since the start of the COVID crisis. Note that this is a crisis of the unvaccinated.

http://tinyurl.com/ym332jtb (http://tinyurl.com/ym332jtb)


Worldometers show Canada having 10 times more infections and 4 times more deaths this year compared to same time last year when nobody was vaccinated. History shows 60 years of trying to make Coronavirus vaccines is not possible because it makes things worse. Many animals suffered during the trials. Animal trials are skipped for this experiment.




http://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/scicheck-idaho-doctor-makes-baseless-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/ (http://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/scicheck-idaho-doctor-makes-baseless-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/)




Your fact check site doesn't have access to the data the lab owner has. He collect blood samples from clinics and hospitals all over and sees the increase of infections on those who are vaccinated. We've known this for years. History shows 60 years of trying to make Coronavirus vaccines is not possible because it make things worse. Many animals suffered during the trials. Animal trials are skipped for this experiment. It takes 7-10 years to conclude studies on a drug or vaccine yet we still see late night commercials everyday saying we are entitled to compensation if we took a certain drug that the FDA approved. They removed our ability to sue over COVID vaccines. Make big pharma liable again and lets see if they continue to push their product. They are making so much money right now and a lot is going to be kicked back to politicians. The party may not last forever so they're milking it for now. Biden and big pharma was pushing boosters but the FDA denying it has slowed down their cash cow.

Many leading experts in vaccines have sounded the alarm. Listen to them over tv commercials and fact checking sites. Project Veritas will release video and expects to get banned on many big tech platforms in an attempt to shut them up. Fact checkers may be working overtime on this one to spin it. Project Veritas has video inside federal government, big pharma, and the FDA. If you care about your and your family's health, watch and listen to what they have to say when they think the cameras aren't on them. What they say will be truth and it's probably not going to match the tv commercial that says the vaccines are safe and effective.

http://t.me/JamesOKeefeIII/1247 (http://t.me/JamesOKeefeIII/1247)

http://t.me/JamesOKeefeIII/1248 (http://t.me/JamesOKeefeIII/1248)


Anne Frank once wrote a diary of how she was excluded from everything and was viewed as a social problem. It's happening now. It ended poorly for her and many others. As a parent, if you deny your child food, it's abuse and it's criminal. That's where some governments are at or headed. They are denying people rights including the right to shop for food. Other governments aren't criticizing the shocking behavior of those governments. Silence is acceptance. Governments see an opportunity to grab more power at the expense of our health and freedoms.

I watch college football yesterday. Some stadiums had over 100,000 people in there. No masks or social distancing. It's time we stop being afraid. Our natural immunity can handle the virus and variants and we'll reduce the virus that causes COVID into a harmless coronavirus that causes the common cold but we can't do that if you guys continue to be human petri dishes creating variants prolonging the pandemic and destroying your natural immune system making you more likely to die not only from COVID, but everything else.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 19, 2021, 11:39:44 AM

Your fact check site doesn't have access to the data the lab owner has. He collect blood samples from clinics and hospitals all over and sees the increase of infections on those who are vaccinated. [/size][/font]

Quote
We asked Cole to provide support for those claims, and he referred us to a 2018 paper published in the journal Nature Reviews Drug Discovery that reviewed trials and studies of various, earlier mRNA vaccines.

But that paper doesn’t support his statement.

Norbert Pardi, a research assistant professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, was the lead author of the paper. He told us in an email, “No publications demonstrate that mRNA vaccines cause cancer or autoimmune diseases.”

If your guy has data, he should write up a paper and submit it for peer review.  Why didn't he show his data, or further substantiate his hypothesis?  Read the rest of the article as well instead of going into a state of denial, discredit, and diversion which the rest of your post obviously consists of.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 19, 2021, 12:14:03 PM
If your guy has data, he should write up a paper and submit it for peer review.  Why didn't he show his data, or further substantiate his hypothesis?  Read the rest of the article as well instead of going into a state of denial, discredit, and diversion which the rest of your post obviously consists of.


I read you fact check article. They said the guy is a Conservative Republican who was once shown in a photo holding a gun and bible. The Fact check site clearly wants to get their reader base to hate the man.


The man, like many doctors say treatments work and your fact check article tries to debunk it.


What your fact check site didn't show is the man's data he accumulated from his lab. It's easier to call him a liar.




Fact check sites are run by journalists and college dropouts to prove mainstream media and certain politicians are telling the truth and others aren't telling the truth. Reminds me of the propaganda from Hitler and Stalin. If you and I were living back then, you would show me photos and history books instead of fact check sites. Of course those photos would have certain people deleted out of them and history books would've been rewritten. That is how it worked then and that is how it works now. If they owned the truth, they wouldn't need to censor people. Those who are censoring are the bad guys disguising themselves as the good guys saying they care about your health.


 The more they shove these experimental vaccines into people's bodies, the more people are getting hurt. Pfizer CEO a couple of weeks ago say they're currently developing a twice a day pill to compliment the vaccines. How many people here are going to take multiple experimental vaccines and 730 experimental drugs in the form of a pill every year to protect them from COVID? How about letting our natural immune systems deal with it and use treatments that have been around for years and passed all safety tests?




I can see the release of this virus benefitting a lot of people. It mainly kills the old and those with pre-existing conditions. Those people tend to be less productive in business and society or even take from business and society in the form of health care and Social security or pension. Government and business will benefit if those people are eliminated from earth.


After reviewing vaccine history and listening to leading experts in the field who aren't making money off us and even losing money if they own stock in big pharma, like the virus, the vaccines are another benefit to government and big business. The vaccines will compromise our immune systems shortening our life spans. Translation: Less medical benefits and Social Security and pension they have to pay out. There's a lot of corrupt and greedy people in government and big business right now. Some of us are working to expose them. After we do, I hope you'd stop letting them(including fact check sites) manipulate your mind and make health decisions for you.





Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on September 19, 2021, 12:17:19 PM
Covid investigation and treatment situations.

Did China make this thing on purpose? Or did some bat bite somebody?
I would like to know.

I will criticize Fauci he lied every time his lips moved.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57336280

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 19, 2021, 12:27:10 PM

Worldometers show Canada having 10 times more infections and 4 times more deaths this year compared to same time last year when nobody was vaccinated.


Three quarters of hospital patients are unvaccinated.  Those that are vaccinated usually are immunocompromised and elderly.  Vaccinated people are just not getting sick the way they did before the vaccine. 


Canada does not have "10 times more infections".  In May, 2020, there were over 100 deaths a day, peaking at an average of 177 deaths a week in early May.  Average in September 2021 is under 20. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 19, 2021, 12:33:26 PM

Worldometers show Canada having 10 times more infections and 4 times more deaths this year compared to same time last year when nobody was vaccinated.

The current number of deaths per day in Canada closely correlate with deaths in Italy.  Both exhibit a low number of deaths, around 20 and 50 respectively as 7 day averages, with Italy's deaths now decreasing daily.  Italy's population is roughly twice that of Canada.  Both have very high vaccination rates, and mask mandates for indoor public areas and schools IIRC.  Under current circumstances, Canada is doing very good with mitigation and vaccinations.

Yesterday, I attended an small event here in the US, indoor venue where minimum distances could not be easily maintained.  Only two participants were masked, and I was one of them.  The county I am staying in does not have a mask mandate, infections are high, and vaccinations for this state are less than 50%.  The problem for many countries is the behavior of their citizens and residents.  You seem to pick here and there for something, anything, that might, even remotely, align with your agenda.  Yet ignore the obvious at your front door.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 19, 2021, 12:38:08 PM
Both exhibit a low number of deaths, around 20 and 50 respectively as 7 day averages, with Italy's deaths now decreasing daily.

Yes, BC.  Here are COVID reports on Friday.  Note the deaths.  Note also that the provinces with the highest numbers of deaths are also the most vaccine hesitant (in BC. vaccine hesitancy is mostly in Northern British Columbia, where most of the deaths are).   The high Alberta numbers are having a negative impact on the government's popularity.  So, a vaccine passport system has been introduced.  That's lead to a surge of vaccine bookings.

http://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html#newCases (http://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html#newCases)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 19, 2021, 12:47:08 PM

I read you fact check article. They said the guy is a Conservative Republican who was once shown in a photo holding a gun and bible. The Fact check site clearly wants to get their reader base to hate the man.


The reference to the video was about Idaho’s lieutenant governor, Janice McGeachin, and not the doc you are referencing. Seems you did not comprehend and only wish to split hairs defending the indefensible.  Idaho is now in crisis, reportedly having to triage and ration care.

Quote
McGeachin was featured in an October post by that group, posing with a Bible and a gun in a video that advocated against public health measures related to the pandemic and asked viewers to sign a statement saying that “any order issued in the future will be ignored.”
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 19, 2021, 01:33:46 PM
  The high Alberta numbers are having a negative impact on the government's popularity.  So, a vaccine passport system has been introduced.  That's lead to a surge of vaccine bookings.

The 'Green Pass' also prompted a surge of vaccinations in Italy.  Now looking to achieve 80% country wide.  If it doesn't happen vaccinations will be mandated for all.  Dark green areas are already at 80+% over 12 fully vaccinated.

(http://i.postimg.cc/8CNcC2zc/Screen-Shot-2021-09-19-at-4-19-16-PM.png)

There is a notable difference between infections with full vaccination rates in the 60's and 80's.

Apulia 80's population 4 million

(http://i.postimg.cc/sf4BZPL1/Screen-Shot-2021-09-19-at-4-40-21-PM.png)

Sicily 60's population 5 million

(http://i.postimg.cc/Y2s5RZZP/Screen-Shot-2021-09-19-at-4-41-03-PM.png)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 19, 2021, 11:18:32 PM



Justin Trudeau says if you do the right things according to government, you get to keep your freedoms. If you're doing the wrong things according to government, you lose freedoms. This is happening in many countries. None of them care about superior natural immunity. It's all about control and putting the poison in 100% of the people except loyal voter bases, elites, and government officials and their staff will be exempt. They will probably get a special exempt card to enjoy freedoms while everybody else must have a vaccination card. Don't think it's going to stop here. It's only going to get worse. They promised herd immunity and life returning to normal if 70% of the people get jabs. They lied. Some people still today wonder how Hitler won Time magazine of the year. He cared about the people and wanted to get deny freedoms to anybody(Jews) hurting other citizens and the country. He was a great guy until he wasn't.


http://t.me/realx22report/4144




Lots of people have natural immunity. You guys can continue to believe vaccines are the answer. Unlike true vaccines it does not immunize, prevent infection, prevent transmission and prevents your natural immune system from doing its job. If you truly believe more is better, keep getting the jabs. Don't have to stop at one, two or three jabs. This winter is going to be a nightmare with so many people's immune system being compromised. Higher risk to be infected by COVID and everything else.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 20, 2021, 12:54:18 AM
BillyB,

again you offer no viable alternatives other than letting unvaccinated folks die.  That is not going to happen.  It is, however, happening in many US states where vaccination rates are low, pushing hospitals to their limits.  In such places even normal cases of heart attacks, accidents etc have a very difficult time getting the care they need, causing more deaths.   

Vaccines are saving many lives every day. The data fully supports efficacy of the vaccines.

Natural immunity is fine, but many with such natural immunity are getting reinfected with Delta as well.

Influenza and other viruses will certainly be in play as they are being repressed in many places by the same mitigation efforts used with covid, i.e. masking etc.  This is known and not something surprising, and why information is being given to get vaccinated for influenza as well.  Influenza and covid vaccines can now be given at the same time making it more convenient.

The combination of large numbers of unvaccinated folks, and a heavy influenza season will, of course, exacerbate and increase deaths, but is not due to covid vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 20, 2021, 03:16:49 AM
If everyone bought a hazmat suit and lived in that all the time we would all be fine :D

Latest study that finds bats in Cambodia had similar virus back in 2010 to the Coronavirus:

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-doctor-warns-coronavirus-in-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-is-horrifying-as-body-set-up-to-regulate-virus-testing-12406800

I'm not saying lab in Wuhan had nothing to do with it, perhaps they were messing about with the virus they harvested from bats who knows. I think the jury is out at the moment until more conclusive evidence comes forward.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 20, 2021, 05:57:06 AM

They do have the data from studies, but two of the members differed on the approach, along with risk/benefit analysis.


It is known that immune systems of older folks is slower or weaker.  Take flu vaccinations as an example, where older folks are basically given four times the amount of antigen in a normal dose to better prod their immune systems into a higher gear.

Since mRNA vaccines disappear quickly, two doses some time apart are given to build up antibodies.  Although antibodies wane, T-cells should 'remember' for a longer period, and likely 'learn' better in younger folks, while the older generation needs to take an extra class to make up.

IMO this more conservative route is prudent.  Better to use available vaccines for those that haven't got it yet.

Just watched a report from Idaho, where ICUs are full.  It was stated that 98% were unvaccinated.  I suspect the 2% that were vaccinated may have been among the older crowd, or those with compromised immune systems.

Interesting NOVA episode on bats http://www.pbs.org/video/bat-superpowers-nfuph6/

BC-

Pfizer is already an approved vaccine. I just find it disturbing there should be a pool of opinion to decide its application. We’ve been told of its efficacy so many times before. There shouldn’t be any ‘guessing’ after administering these to so many people. As it is, I just now found out the voting result last week is still not an official decision. That still is under further consideration. Why?

In addition there’s been so many talks of unvaccinated folks being hospitalized and dying here in the US, yet I monitor poor countries like Africa that had less than 5% of their population vaccinated that doesn’t to be going through these reported ‘surges’.

What happened to all the talk of ‘herd immunity’? The talk then was the magical ‘70%’. Why does it now need to be 100%? What happened to the ‘asymptomatic’ folks? What happened to studies that previously infected folks stand a much stronger state than fully vaccinated folks? Why is this not even being included in these discussions and decisions?

When all is said and done, bottom line seem to be the same since the beginning. Of those getting hospitalized and dying are the same subset of people since this got started - 97% +/- are with comorbidity/ies. With the highest rate is with obese/overweight folks. It matters not whether one is vaccinated or not, which I believe is what the FDA struggled with.

It is in this state of health that greatly weakens a person’s innate and adaptive levels of their immunity defenses.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 20, 2021, 07:49:39 AM
BC-

Pfizer is already an approved vaccine. I just find it disturbing there should be a pool of opinion to decide its application. We’ve been told of its efficacy so many times before. There shouldn’t be any ‘guessing’ after administering these to so many people. As it is, I just now found out the voting result last week is still not an official decision. That still is under further consideration. Why?

I suspect it is never one person who makes the call, and rather a group of folks, in any med approval.  Meds/vaccines in my understanding are also approved with a scope of use.  The pfizer vaccine two shots, so and so days apart, to specific age groups.  Widening usage would require additional approval as in this case a third dose.  I don't find this unusual.

Quote
In addition there’s been so many talks of unvaccinated folks being hospitalized and dying here in the US, yet I monitor poor countries like Africa that had less than 5% of their population vaccinated that doesn’t to be going through these reported ‘surges’.

Lots of territory there, lack of tests maybe along with lack of a reporting system, also age demographics probably play a big role. Climate maybe along with population density? Too many variables to point the finger at anything specific. 

Quote
What happened to all the talk of ‘herd immunity’? The talk then was the magical ‘70%’. Why does it now need to be 100%? What happened to the ‘asymptomatic’ folks? What happened to studies that previously infected folks stand a much stronger state than fully vaccinated folks? Why is this not even being included in these discussions and decisions?

From what I've read, big difference is delta that is much more contagious than previous variants. In any case, many places in the US haven't even reached 50%, much less 70%.  As posted before, Italy is striving now for 80% or more.

Quote
When all is said and done, bottom line seem to be the same since the beginning. Of those getting hospitalized and dying are the same subset of people since this got started - 97% +/- are with comorbidity/ies. With the highest rate is with obese/overweight folks. It matters not whether one is vaccinated or not, which I believe is what the FDA struggled with.

It is in this state of health that greatly weakens a person’s innate and adaptive levels of their immunity defenses.

Plenty of young healthy people as well, with some genetic markers identified as posing higher risk.  One of the hurdles is that so many qualify with a comorbidity.  IIRC 60% of the US having one, and 40% having two or more qualifying chronic illnesses.  Age is of course a factor, as seen in Italy with high numbers of deaths early on, which has subsided considerably, maybe even to influenza levels as far as hospitalization and deaths.  Vaccinations, green passes for stores, restaurants and public transport, plus indoor masking even for those vaccinated seems to be working very well, with life otherwise quite normal.

Boils down to teamwork, IMO.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 20, 2021, 08:59:01 AM
My problem with this whole thing is not whether a person should get vaccinated or not. People should have that freedom after all. If the vaccines is 'so safe' and prevents one from severe illness, then why would it matter if others are not vaccinated? How is taking a chance in one's self survival be any different in choosing to smoke, consume alcohol, weed and opiates?


The problem I have is mandating laws on what is an otherwise nuanced matter, where even the very 'scientists' mulling behind this whole thing can't seem to agree in unison. The whole science behind this madness is all over the place. On a virus with a mortality rate of .21%, and a survivability rate of +/-98.5%. To date, only a scant reported case of 13% of our population that had been infected by this virus after nearly 2 years!!!


Chew on these numbers a bit, it just seem rather crazy to me what the frenzy is all about.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 20, 2021, 09:49:54 AM
Vaccines are saving many lives every day. The data fully supports efficacy of the vaccines.



Didn't you watch the 8 hour FDA meeting? I even put it on the spot that talks about this. They showed data the vaccines were killing people 2 to 1 over COVID. Then factor in death that has not occurred yet due to people having compromised immune systems ending their life by 5 or 10 years early. Only when a person gets old does their natural immune system weaken to the point COVID will kill more than the vaccine. There is no efficacy to the vaccines. Look at the definition of vaccine. It's supposed to immunize. COVID vaccines don't do it. All they do is reduce the intensity of the disease which is what treatments do. Vaccinated people still get the virus and transmit the disease. Trudeau was lying when he said people will feel more safe when everybody in a restaurant is vaccinated. If you're vaccinated(protected) and I'm not, why should you be worried that I'm sitting next to you eating? I'll tell you why. It's because you're not protected. They lied to you. This is about control. Once they take my freedoms away, they're coming after you. They aren't your friends. Politicians who deny people the right to eat and work are sinister people. Sure Trudeau and Biden don't look like Devils but the Devil will never approach you looking like he's on fire, with sharp teeth and horns coming out of his head.



Pfizer is already an approved vaccine.


That's a trick to allow private businesses to force the vaccines on customers and employees. FDA fact sheet says the approved version is the same as the unapproved version. Call up a clinic and ask if they have the approved version available. They don't but will offer you the unapproved version. Calling it approved opens the door to liability so they don't make the product available to us.



What happened to all the talk of ‘herd immunity’? The talk then was the magical ‘70%’. Why does it now need to be 100%? What happened to the ‘asymptomatic’ folks? What happened to studies that previously infected folks stand a much stronger state than fully vaccinated folks? Why is this not even being included in these discussions and decisions?



That's another trick. They say 70% to get us motivated to take the vaccine and when we think we're going to get a win, they move the goalposts. They been lying to us since the beginning when they said the virus wasn't made in a lab. After reading numerous experts in vaccines, it's apparent herd immunity is never achieved with respiratory viruses. You and I aren't expected to know that but the experts pushing vaccines do. Fauci a few days ago said herd immunity is still possible so take the vaccine. Another lie. They are creating more human petri dishes that in turn create anti vaccine variants. This pandemic will never end using that strategy but it will lead to a lot of death and injury by way of vaccine and COVID since the vaccinated are prolonging the pandemic.

For those who think politicians, government doctors and big pharma aren't lying on purpose, they've definitely been wrong a lot which means they don't know what they are doing. If they know what they are doing, it's even worse because what they're doing is a crime against humanity and they know it.


Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 20, 2021, 09:56:14 AM
80-90% of the population must be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.  As at today's date, only Portugal has achieved the 80% rate of immunization.  Singapore is just under 80% (79.8%).

The problem is the way people with COVID fill hospitals.  Scheduled surgeries cancelled.  Every ward turned into a COVID ward.  Exhausted hospital staff.  That's the issue.  Not the deaths.  Not how sick people get. 



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BillyB on September 20, 2021, 10:22:19 AM
80-90% of the population must be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.  As at today's date, only Portugal has achieved the 80% rate of immunization.  Singapore is just under 80% (79.8%).



Singapore and Portugal is nowhere near achieving head immunity. this summer's infection and death rate is higher now than same time last year for both of them. This summer a good number of unvaccinated people have natural immunity and won't be getting infected by anti vaccine variants and won't be filling up hospitals. There is no anti natural immune system variant because our natural immune system crushes the virus so it never learns to beat natural immunity.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/


As long as they can fire last years heroes who worked unvaccinated if they aren't vaccinated this year, they must feel there isn't a need for them and if there isn't a need for them, there is no pandemic and no emergency. The media propaganda will follow orders of their politician bosses to make us believe there is danger creating fear so we'll beg them to come save us with a miracle cure that doesn't cure anything. Propaganda has successfully got people to believe putting poison in their bodies is a good thing saving lives.


The fact they aren't testing for superior natural immunity and giving those people a pass from having to inject a poisonous vaccine into their bodies is alarming. They are going to spend massive amounts of our money to pump continuous experimental vaccines into our bodies even if we have superior natural immunity. The only people getting a pass are politicians, their staff, big pharma, certain government organizations like the CDC and FDA who politicians need to push the agenda, and certain favored voter bases like USPS. The decisions they're making have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with a political power grab. Any leading vaccine expert who speaks against vaccines get censored, banned and their history erased so people today reading up on them think they aren't qualified to speak and are liars when they talk about their credentials. The government is destroying free speech on the internet. This is a modern day Nazi style book burning event.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 20, 2021, 10:25:19 AM


Chew on these numbers a bit, it just seem rather crazy to me what the frenzy is all about.

To draw down the numbers I gave above, let me paint it this way.

For every 1,000 Americans, 130 were infected. Of 130, 128 survived. Of the <2 who died, they were in the high risk category.

I don’t really categorize ‘age’ as high risk, it’s just that most elderly folks just happen to be at a stage where these comorbities are prevalent. You can be an old fart like myself and survive, for instance. Or be a young stud who happens to smoke or vape. This has very little to do with whether or not you’re vaccinated.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 20, 2021, 10:26:45 AM
Of course they haven't yet achieved herd immunity.  Those numbers are as of today.  It will take months for the effects to be seen.


People have superior natural immunities to MMR as well.  We don't test for that, either.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 20, 2021, 10:47:00 AM
The problem is the way people with COVID fill hospitals.  Scheduled surgeries cancelled.  Every ward turned into a COVID ward.  Exhausted hospital staff.  That's the issue.  Not the deaths.  Not how sick people get.

Indeed.  Italy would have been placed again in full lockdown months ago.  The Delta variant has been reported, IIRC, to be 4-6 times more transmissible and more virulent, causing worse outcomes.

GQ,
expected lower transmissivity (which has not yet been conclusively measured) aside, as Boethius indicates, vaccines prevent lockdowns and other more drastic measures from becoming necessary.  The dots on this are all connected.

Countries where citizens and residents are working together to fight the virus and support vaccination and masking guidelines are doing much better than countries where citizens and residents don't work well together.

The positive results are in, but some still question how we got there, instead focusing on whatever negative aspects can be picked at, mostly without any substantiation.

I just wish the US was doing as well as a number of other countries, saving around a thousand lives every day.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 20, 2021, 10:55:24 AM
I don’t really categorize ‘age’ as high risk, it’s just that most elderly folks just happen to be at a stage where these comorbities are prevalent. You can be an old fart like myself and survive, for instance. Or be a young stud who happens to smoke or vape. This has very little to do with whether or not you’re vaccinated.

I wish it were so simple.  One possible complication I posted before:

http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01773-7

It is also well known and documented that as we age, our immune systems are less capable of handling disease.

There is still a lot we don't know for sure about why some die and some, like yourself survive.  Just curious, you had a serious infection.  Did you have a chest x-ray or scan done afterwards to see if there were any anomalies?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 20, 2021, 11:06:30 AM

Singapore and Portugal is nowhere near achieving head immunity. this summer's infection and death rate is higher now than same time last year for both of them. This summer a good number of unvaccinated people have natural immunity and won't be getting infected by anti vaccine variants and won't be filling up hospitals. There is no anti natural immune system variant because our natural immune system crushes the virus so it never learns to beat natural immunity.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/


Portugal, average deaths 10, equivalent to 320 US deaths/day and Singapore 1, equivalent to 66 US deaths per day.  How does that compare to the more unruly and unvaccinated US with 1,500 deaths per day?  Isn't much of the unvaccinated US depending on such natural immunity?  Why isn't your natural way more successful than most well vaccinated and masked countries?

Doesn't add up does it....
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 20, 2021, 01:01:46 PM
GQ,
expected lower transmissivity (which has not yet been conclusively measured) aside, as Boethius indicates, vaccines prevent lockdowns and other more drastic measures from becoming necessary.  The dots on this are all connected.


We can agree to disagree on this, BC. IMO this is largely why there's still a steady stream of infection. I think it sends the wrong message because at best, *low transmissivity* of those vaccinated is highly speculative if not totally faux science. I mean how would anyone know who is transmitting the virus? Politics and the media would like the public to believe *this is all happening just on the unvaccinated*. Even just on the face of this, that just borders on BS. Personally, beyond my brother (who was fully vaccinated) gifting me with COVID (he showed symptoms - blamed it on allergy), there had been multiple local news here about vaccinated super spreader cases. Yet, coverage of it is literally non-existent.

Quote
Countries where citizens and residents are working together to fight the virus and support vaccination and masking guidelines are doing much better than countries where citizens and residents don't work well together.


I would be cautious making such absolute statement. We really do not know this. Even Italy locked down fairly tight last year only to experience the same surges. As for masking, while it may offer 'some' protection, I'm not sure it is as helpful as media would like for all of us/you to believe. After all, even CDC/Fauci once deemed the types of masks most wear today gives little to no protection.

Quote
The positive results are in, but some still question how we got there, instead focusing on whatever negative aspects can be picked at, mostly without any substantiation.


I no longer pay attention to either sides of argument about this anymore. Not in a while now. I just simply look at the prevailing numbers being reported.

Quote
I just wish the US was doing as well as a number of other countries, saving around a thousand lives every day.


IMO, the US is doing just fine. A shade over 2 people dying out of every 1,000 is better, if not more or less the same as any other nation/s at present time.

There is still a lot we don't know for sure about why some die and some, like yourself survive.  Just curious, you had a serious infection.  Did you have a chest x-ray or scan done afterwards to see if there were any anomalies?


I wouldn't call my case as anywhere close to being 'serious'. I actually went to my office & worked everyday. It became a butt of joke here as a matter of fact, since we had people staying home because of their reaction to the vaccine. My case lasted less than a week. It wasn't pleasant, but relatively 'easy' than most.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 20, 2021, 02:48:22 PM

We can agree to disagree on this, BC. IMO this is largely why there's still a steady stream of infection. I think it sends the wrong message because at best, *low transmissivity* of those vaccinated is highly speculative if not totally faux science. I mean how would anyone know who is transmitting the virus? Politics and the media would like the public to believe *this is all happening just on the unvaccinated*. Even just on the face of this, that just borders on BS. Personally, beyond my brother (who was fully vaccinated) gifting me with COVID (he showed symptoms - blamed it on allergy), there had been multiple local news here about vaccinated super spreader cases. Yet, coverage of it is literally non-existent.

As an unknown factor, we're only exchanging differing expectations.  We can both agree to 'We don't know how effective or not vaccines are with transmission.' and that's quite ok.


Quote
I would be cautious making such absolute statement. We really do not know this. Even Italy locked down fairly tight last year only to experience the same surges. As for masking, while it may offer 'some' protection, I'm not sure it is as helpful as media would like for all of us/you to believe. After all, even CDC/Fauci once deemed the types of masks most wear today gives little to no protection.

Indeed, the surges with many hospitalizations, loaded ICU's and large numbers of death were very present, until vaccines came about.  I believe masks help, but that again is an unquantifiable value.  Whatever it is that Italy is doing seems to be working very well, with similar experiences in other countries that are doing much the same. At least that is known.

Quote
I no longer pay attention to either sides of argument about this anymore. Not in a while now. I just simply look at the prevailing numbers being reported.

Yeah, I'm getting bored with it as well.


Quote
IMO, the US is doing just fine. A shade over 2 people dying out of every 1,000 is better, if not more or less the same as any other nation/s at present time.

First vaccination in the US 14 December. 299,193 deaths prior. Yesterday 692,356 = 393,163 deaths since 14 December or 1191 per million.
First vaccination in Italy 27 December, but let's take 14 December for parity. 65,011 deaths prior. Yesterday 130,310=65,299 deaths since 14 December, or 1088 per million.

Now 103 per million difference might not sound like much, only 10%, but that number is growing rapidly with the much higher rate of daily deaths in the US, and theoretically represents over 6000 lives.  Let's check back on the numbers in a couple of weeks, or a month, and see what the numbers show.  Although not exact, with a head start for the US, we can see what happens in relative terms.

Basis, 60 million Italians, 330 million Americans.
Italy counts from http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni
US counts from http://www.patientcareonline.com/view/covid-19-update-us-and-global-cases-deaths-and-recoveries-as-of-december-14-2020

Do check my math for any errors.

Quote
I wouldn't call my case as anywhere close to being 'serious'. I actually went to my office & worked everyday. It became a butt of joke here as a matter of fact, since we had people staying home because of their reaction to the vaccine. My case lasted less than a week. It wasn't pleasant, but relatively 'easy' than most.

The way you described it at the time, not a walk in the park, either.  In any case, something to look out for on your next checkup.  I'd at least get an x-ray done.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 20, 2021, 07:37:20 PM
...First vaccination in the US 14 December. 299,193 deaths prior. Yesterday 692,356 = 393,163 deaths since 14 December or 1191 per million.
First vaccination in Italy 27 December, but let's take 14 December for parity. 65,011 deaths prior. Yesterday 130,310=65,299 deaths since 14 December, or 1088 per million.

Now 103 per million difference might not sound like much, only 10%, but that number is growing rapidly with the much higher rate of daily deaths in the US, and theoretically represents over 6000 lives.  Let's check back on the numbers in a couple of weeks, or a month, and see what the numbers show.  Although not exact, with a head start for the US, we can see what happens in relative terms.

Basis, 60 million Italians, 330 million Americans.
Italy counts from http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni (http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni)
US counts from http://www.patientcareonline.com/view/covid-19-update-us-and-global-cases-deaths-and-recoveries-as-of-december-14-2020 (http://www.patientcareonline.com/view/covid-19-update-us-and-global-cases-deaths-and-recoveries-as-of-december-14-2020)

Do check my math for any errors.



Well, unless you're BillyB ( :P ), I won't pick fly sh!t out of peppers, but you asked...103 per 1,000,000 difference.

It's a very miniscule percentage, a hundreth of a percent difference. You can literally justify the difference by extrapolating that the US's population is 5 times that of Italy more or less. The larger the 'sampling', the likelihood of greater frequency.

Quote
The way you described it at the time, not a walk in the park, either.  In any case, something to look out for on your next checkup.  I'd at least get an x-ray done.

I honestly never get sick. Much to my wife's dismay because she never gets a chance to push her 'Russian pill' with me. So this experience with COVID was not only surprising, it was nothing like I've experience before. That made it quite 'significant' to me. But comparing what I felt, even with my brother (he was coughing/sneezing most days - all day long), and other folks who had them, I got off pretty easy comparably.




Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on September 20, 2021, 07:45:07 PM
We are taking care of my wife's niece from Colombia.  She goes to school here now.  A person in her class got covid.  Now all students in the class have to get covid tests immediately and again in a few days I guess.  They take a lot of precautions at school already, but I would think it would spread despite this.    In any event, we shall see if our household is officially afflicted by it soon.  I would think not, as we all feel pretty good. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 21, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
How, we, in California are persevering to stop the spread of this nasty virus. Thankful that many of our fearless leaders are bold enough to really take a stand and implement strict policies, policies that may not be popular to its constituents, without fear of political fallout!! Yes, indeedy they are a fearless bunch!! We Californians are truly blessed to be led by such, lovably bold cretins!!!

San Francisco, and 7 other Bay Rea health officials, spearheaded this new mask mandate policy not too long ago. It states:

"...Because of the Delta variant, we have more cases of COVID-19 right now. You are required to wear a mask to stop the spread of the Delta variant. You must wear a mask even if you are vaccinated....

http://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-added-protection-coronavirus (http://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-added-protection-coronavirus)

Now to help promote this policy, SF mayor London Breed (Yup, the same black lives matter bobble head), went out and about to show San Franciscan how to abide by this new policy, shown on the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk-u1-EealY


Yessiree, the very same head-bobbing looney in the background. Apparently, all of the people in attendance this evening are exempt from this mandate.

When confronted by the absurdity of this matter (remember Pelosi?), she responded (pp), "I was feeling the spirit. The fun police can't tells us what to do!"

Yup, welcome to Kalifornyak! Now go home! Take someone with you, maybe two, on your way out!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 21, 2021, 12:57:49 PM
Yup, part deux..


Things you need to know about the ever-mutating science, scientists, experts and your stupid *Democratic variant* president (whoever voted for this deucebag please stand up) that would like to prevent the unvaccinated from living normal lives afforded only to the vaccinated sheeps...


Quote from: Joe Dementia Biden
a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

http://twitter.com/NickFondacaro/status/1439617471422607372 (http://twitter.com/NickFondacaro/status/1439617471422607372)

Jen Psaki, when asked if illegal immigrants crossing our borders are being asked for their vaccine passports before admittance, she responded (pp):

Quote from: Jen Psaki
Unlike Europeans, illegal immigrants don’t need to prove vaccination status because they “are not intending to stay here”


 :o  Maybe it's just me. But as Shultz would always mutter: "der iz somethin very, very wrong hir!"
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on September 21, 2021, 01:40:24 PM
I am posting this article as The Telegraph requires registration.

The better half has always contended the virus was genetically modified, and that’s why a vaccination is the best option for most.

Quote
Wuhan scientists were planning to release enhanced airborne coronaviruses into Chinese bat populations to inoculate them against diseases that could jump to humans, leaked grant proposals dating from 2018 show.

New documents show that just 18 months before the first Covid-19 cases appeared, researchers had submitted plans to release skin-penetrating nanoparticles containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” of bat coronaviruses into cave bats in Yunnan, China.

They also planned to create chimeric viruses, genetically enhanced to infect humans more easily, and requested $14million from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) to fund the work.

Papers, confirmed as genuine by a former member of the Trump administration, show they were hoping to introduce “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses which would make it easier for the virus to enter human cells.
When Covid-19 was first genetically sequenced, scientists were puzzled about how the virus had evolved such a human-specific adaptation at the cleavage site on the spike protein, which is the reason it is so infectious.

The documents were released by Drastic, the web-based investigations team set up by scientists from across the world to look into the origins of Covid-19.
In a statement, Drastic said: “Given that we find in this proposal a discussion of the planned introduction of human-specific cleavage sites, a review by the wider scientific community of the plausibility of artificial insertion is warranted.”

The proposal also included plans to mix high-risk natural coronavirus strains with more infectious but less dangerous varieties.

The bid was submitted by British zoologist Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance, the US-based organisation, which has worked closely with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) researching bat coronaviruses.

Team members included Dr Shi Zhengli, the WIV researcher dubbed “bat woman”, pictured below, as well as US researchers from the University of North Carolina and the United States Geological Survey National Wildlife Health Centre.

Darpa refused to fund the work, saying: “It is clear that the proposed project led by Peter Daszak could have put local communities at risk”, and warned that the team had not properly considered the dangers of enhancing the virus (gain of function research) or releasing a vaccine by air.

Grant documents show that the team also had some concerns about the vaccine programme and said they would “conduct educational outreach … so that there is a public understanding of what we are doing and why we are doing it, particularly because of the practice of bat-consumption in the region”.

Angus Dalgleish, Professor of Oncology at St Georges, University of London, who struggled to get work published showing that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had been carrying out “gain of function” work for years before the pandemic, said the research may have gone ahead even without the funding.

“This is clearly a gain of function, engineering the cleavage site and polishing the new viruses to enhance human cell infectibility in more than one cell line,” he said.

Daszak was also behind a letter published in The Lancet last year which effectively shut down scientific debate into the origins of Covid-19.

Viscount Ridley, who has co-authored a book on the origin of Covid-19, due for release in November, and who has frequently called for a further investigation into what caused the pandemic in the House of Lords, said: “For more than a year I tried repeatedly to ask questions of Peter Daszak with no response.

“Now it turns out he had authored this vital piece of information about virus work in Wuhan but refused to share it with the world. I am furious. So should the world be.

“Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance (EHA) proposed injecting deadly chimeric bat coronaviruses collected by the Wuhan Institute of Virology into humanised and ‘batified’ mice, and much, much more.”

A Covid-19 researcher from the World Health Organisation (WHO), who wished to remain anonymous, said it was alarming that the grant proposal included plans to enhance the more deadly disease of Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers).

“The scary part is they were making infectious chimeric Mers viruses,” the source said.

“These viruses have a fatality rate over 30 per cent, which is at least an order of magnitude more deadly than Sars-CoV-2.

“If one of their receptor replacements made Mers spread similarly, while maintaining its lethality, this pandemic would be nearly apocalyptic.”

EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology have been aproached for comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/21/wuhan-scientists-planned-releaseskin-penetrating-nanoparticles/




Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 26, 2021, 02:46:44 AM
Looks like Coronavirus infections are starting to climb a lot in Ukraine now. Guessing the Delta variant is now making big inroads out there:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-covid-state-emergency/31469287.html

Ukraine's vaccination drive has of course been slow so they're pretty much open to it spreading fact once it's properly taken hold which it looks like it now has. Up to around 8,000 infections or so a day now and over 100 deaths per day with matters likely to get worse in the coming weeks. Odds are their country can't economically take another full on lockdown so they will probably just have to try to weather it. Would be good to hear how things are with anyone with more feet on the ground of the situation out there.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 27, 2021, 08:56:29 AM
Despite vigorous campaign by internet sites like instagram, twitter, FB, etc...to censor 'natural immunity's' stronger/longer efficacy vs vaccines (http://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1), numerous legal challenges and lawsuits (http://news.yahoo.com/natural-immunity-covid-19-legality-substitute-vaccination-123106323.html) had began in various US court systems against the vaccine passport/mandate.


I will not take too kindly either if any idiotic business/es, local, state and federal agencies exercise this stupid liberal rule against me and discriminates me for being 'unvaccinated' in any way, shape or form.
Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on September 27, 2021, 10:47:24 AM
Odds are their country can't economically take another full on lockdown so they will
probably just have to try to weather it. Would be good to hear how things are with
anyone with more feet on the ground of the situation out there.

Trench, the US can't economically take another full lockdown.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on September 29, 2021, 05:07:41 AM
 

I will not take too kindly either if any idiotic business/es, local, state and federal agencies exercise this stupid liberal rule against me and discriminates me for being 'unvaccinated' in any way, shape or form.
For now there are consequences for not being vaccinated.  I'm not entirely in favor of those consequences.   If I were vaccinated, I could still be a carrier of the virus, and perhaps be less likely to realize it. Not being able to visit old pops doesn't seem sensible from that viewpoint.   I think it won't be long before needing to produce vaccination papers is going to be the new norm, and I'm not in favor of that.

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Sailor291 on September 29, 2021, 05:43:24 AM
We should just sew a gold 6 pointed star on our clothing.  Oh, never mind that’s already been tried. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: tfcrew on September 29, 2021, 03:00:49 PM
Dozens Of Massachusetts State Police Have Resigned Over A Vaccine Mandate, Union Says
Quote
Dozens of Massachusetts State Police troopers have put in their resignation papers following the state's COVID-19 vaccine mandate, the State Police Association of Massachusetts said.Under Gov. Charlie Baker's executive order (http://www.mass.gov/news/baker-polito-administration-announces-covid-19-vaccine-requirement-for-executive-department-employees) issued last month, all executive department employees are required to show proof of vaccination on or before Oct. 17, or they will be fired. "It is unfortunate that the Governor and his team have chosen to mandate one of the most stringent vaccine mandates in the country with no reasonable alternatives," State Police Association President Michael Cherven said (http://msptrooper.org/state-police-assoc-of-massachusetts-spam-statement-on-judges-ruling-and-governor-bakers-vaccine-mandate/) in a statement. Health Health Department Resignations In A Montana County Slow COVID-19 Vaccine Distribution 
  •  
    Chervin said the troopers should have "reasonable alternatives" to being required to get vaccinated such as wearing masks and being tested regularly.             Health  (http://www.npr.org/sections/health/) A N.Y. Hospital Will Stop Delivering Babies As Workers Quit Over A Vaccine Mandate (http://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1036521499/covid-workers-resign-new-york-hospital-stops-baby-delivery)   Last week, a state judge denied a request from the state's police union to block the governor's vaccine mandate for troopers, according to WBZ-TV (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/09/23/i-team-judge-denies-state-police-request-to-delay-vaccine-mandate/). The police union's attorneys told the local broadcaster that up to 20% of state police employees remain unvaccinated.With the judge's ruling, unvaccinated troopers were only given a few days to get their first vaccine dose or they could face disciplinary action, WBZ reported.
http://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/27/1040961594/massachusetts-state-police-resign-covid-vaccine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thousands of N.Y. Health Care Workers Get Vaccinated Ahead of Deadline
Quote
Sept. 28, 2021New York State’s pioneering effort to force health care workers to receive coronavirus vaccines appears to have pressured thousands of holdouts to receive last-minute shots, though hospitals and nursing homes continue to brace for potential staffing shortages should the mandate fall short, according to state and industry officials.
As the vaccination mandate went into full effect on Monday, 92 percent of the state’s more than 650,000 hospital and nursing home workers had received at least one vaccine dose, state officials said. That was a significant increase from a week ago, when 82 percent of the state’s nursing home workers and at least 84 percent of hospital workers had received at least one dose.
The jump in vaccinations in the days before the deadline gave New York one of the highest rates of vaccination among health care workers nationally. It was also a positive sign that President Biden’s planned federal vaccination mandate for most health care workers (http://www.whitehouse.gov/covidplan/) might buoy rates nationwide.
At the same time, at least eight lawsuits and several angry protests against mandates in New York served as a reminder that thousands of health care workers would likely resign or choose to be fired rather than get vaccinated.Many hospitals and nursing homes faced staffing shortages before the mandate, for reasons including pandemic-related burnout and the high pay being offered to traveling nurses. That means even minor staff losses because of vaccine resistance could put some patients at risk.
As a result, many health care facilities have braced themselves by activating emergency staffing plans, calling in volunteers and moving personnel to cover shifts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/nyregion/vaccine-health-care-workers-mandate.html
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 29, 2021, 03:53:12 PM
Since current science is proving those who survived from being infected by COVID-19 are far more protected, and thereby 'safer to others', than vaccinated folks; and with this stupid mandate - I guess we no longer have the need to heed the ol' *follow-the-science* campaign. If so, keep in mind, if following the science is no longer valid - then this makes the *mandate* even that much more ridiculous.


Our f@cking government is obviously, really & simply, just f@cking with us. Cynical I am, yes indeedy! Who the heck voted for this dynamic duo? Please announce yourselves!!!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on September 29, 2021, 04:30:08 PM

I got my third Pfizer Covid injection yesterday. 
Wife won't be eligible for another month (6 months past her second injection), and then only if she qualifies as a front line worker (teacher) as she is too young. 
I am suffering a little bit (nausea, headache, and tiredness) just like after second vaccination. 
But should only last 3 days or so.
It's worth it as the 3rd vaccination is supposed to increase immunization by 5 times that of only two vaccinations.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 30, 2021, 09:36:48 AM
Youtube decided to be the arbiter of science and truth, and decided to ban/remove all 100% counter opinions it deems are promoted by *anti-vaxxers* from its platform.


Unbelievable! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/29/youtube-ban-joseph-mercola/) what's happening to our country and freedom!


Along with FB, I believe this is a sign that these social media had followed suit with Biden's heeding months ago that all social sites silence any/all counter opinions dealing with their directive.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 30, 2021, 10:21:58 AM
Since current science is proving those who survived from being infected by COVID-19 are far more protected, and thereby 'safer to others', than vaccinated folks; and with this stupid mandate - I guess we no longer have the need to heed the ol' *follow-the-science* campaign. If so, keep in mind, if following the science is no longer valid - then this makes the *mandate* even that much more ridiculous.


Our f@cking government is obviously, really & simply, just f@cking with us. Cynical I am, yes indeedy! Who the heck voted for this dynamic duo? Please announce yourselves!!!

I did.

Countries that followed the science, mandating vaccines, masks and green passes (most all give passes to those with prior infection valid for at least 6 months, BTW) fared this last wave of infections much, much better than countries where such was not mandated.

It ain't that different from the performance of football teams.  If a team is well organized and in sync with how they want to play the game as a team, results will most likely be better than a team where they just tell each of the players to do whatever the heck they want.

Today, the US will surpass Italy in deaths per million, and will end up considerably higher.  Today the 7-day average is 54 vs 1651.

If the US was performing as well as Italy, there would be only 297 deaths per day, or 1354 excess deaths per day.  And, it has been this way for many weeks.  Other countries like Germany have done much better than Italy as well, so it's not an anomaly.

 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: mhr7 on September 30, 2021, 11:23:29 AM
Mandate vaccines.

http://tinyurl.com/nkk5vnbz

When Green and Klinestiver next met about two months later, Green lay in bed in a critical care unit, battling a severe case of COVID. The 58-year-old New Palestine, Indiana, man greeted his physician wanly and sheepishly.

By this point, Green has no doubts about the vaccine.

Pausing to take deep breaths from the high flow oxygen device to which he was tethered, Green said he would like to tell everyone to "just go get the vaccine."

He said there's no reason to hesitate.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/man-hospitalized-covid-19-begs-103018646.html
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on September 30, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
I did.

Countries that followed the science, mandating vaccines, masks and green passes (most all give passes to those with prior infection valid for at least 6 months, BTW) fared this last wave of infections much, much better than countries where such was not mandated.

It ain't that different from the performance of football teams.  If a team is well organized and in sync with how they want to play the game as a team, results will most likely be better than a team where they just tell each of the players to do whatever the heck they want.

Today, the US will surpass Italy in deaths per million, and will end up considerably higher.  Today the 7-day average is 54 vs 1651.

If the US was performing as well as Italy, there would be only 297 deaths per day, or 1354 excess deaths per day.  And, it has been this way for many weeks.  Other countries like Germany have done much better than Italy as well, so it's not an anomaly.
 

BC-

You keep comparing apples to oranges to fit your narrative. Deaths/million have little to NO relevance to what that moron in that white house that you voted for is doing. If no one else died in good ol' Italy from heretofore - it has NO relevance to the US, timbuktu or elsewhere. I'm not sure why you're stuck in this mentality as though it's  viable barometer. Listen, it's good to know Italians fancy being controlled by their government with little to no resistance. Many/most Americans do not. THAT's what is relevant.

The point of why this stupid mandate is in place is sketchy at best for the simple reason this administration, and all its expert talking heads, had been peddling from the get-go that *we follow the science*. Yet, the mandate took no consideration to people who had survived the virus and are being/will be discriminated upon despite presiding *science* had proven that even being unvaccinated, they are in fact *safer* than those that are. This idiotic president is much too dense to either understand this, or is being forced to serve a narrative from his experts that stand to profit greatly from vaccine administration.

This is not the right time to see millions more filing for unemployment because of this mandate. Our economy isn't exactly undergoing the best of times as it is. California just recorded 18,000 more filing unemployment just today.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. Ferchrissakes, my wife is vaccinated. If you think and believe vaccine is your life savior, by all means go get vaccinated. Don't wait! Go! But if you believe otherwise, especially if you are aware what the
science is, then you have that right and you shouldn't be discriminated because of it.

That's the point, and again, has nothing to do or relevance to what Italians like to eat for dinner.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: tfcrew on September 30, 2021, 07:30:06 PM
....the 3rd vaccination is supposed to increase immunization by 5 times that of only two vaccinations.
How can anyone really know that after only about a year after the vaxs even started?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on September 30, 2021, 08:02:00 PM
Yeah GQ, I keep forgetting that Homo americanus is a species unto itself, and that normal socio-behavioral norms and patterns do not apply.  It is exactly this illusion of exceptionalism that keeps killing us.  You, and others, consistently and insistently use this rationalization to defend everything that ails us, whether it be wars, guns, government, healthcare, economy, education, ecology, and now even a teensy weenie little virus.

You scoffed and even ridiculed what was happening in other countries, and the same ends up happening in our own backyard.  The big difference is that others learned from their mistakes and adapted.  Don't confuse 'government control' with leadership.  The US had every advantage, with resources, and most important, time.  Our failure to manage and adapt to this crisis cannot be justified.  Instead of leveraging a head start, we missed the bus and the data proves it.

I'll be returning home next week.  Believe it or not, I will breathe much easier on the flight departing the US knowing everyone on the flight has been tested, and most, if not all, fully vaccinated.  I'll feel more free going about my day than I have here, knowing that those around me have my back, and I have theirs.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 01, 2021, 05:21:03 AM
Yeah GQ, I keep forgetting that Homo americanus is a species unto itself, and that normal socio-behavioral norms and patterns do not apply.  It is exactly this illusion of exceptionalism that keeps killing us.  You, and others, consistently and insistently use this rationalization to defend everything that ails us, whether it be wars, guns, government, healthcare, economy, education, ecology, and now even a teensy weenie little virus.

You scoffed and even ridiculed what was happening in other countries, and the same ends up happening in our own backyard.  The big difference is that others learned from their mistakes and adapted.  Don't confuse 'government control' with leadership.  The US had every advantage, with resources, and most important, time.  Our failure to manage and adapt to this crisis cannot be justified.  Instead of leveraging a head start, we missed the bus and the data proves it.

I'll be returning home next week.  Believe it or not, I will breathe much easier on the flight departing the US knowing everyone on the flight has been tested, and most, if not all, fully vaccinated.  I'll feel more free going about my day than I have here, knowing that those around me have my back, and I have theirs.

LMAO! OMG, you may have a point comparing apples to oranges. I just looked at the 7-day average cases (your favorite) between Wyoming and Florida!!! Jeeezzuzz! They must feel exceptional in Arkansas! Looky here in Hawaii, compared to Michigan, they must like to eat lychees!

Are you getting this at all? Your silly response to the post couldn’t be more off target.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 01, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Hi GQ,

If you believe that WY, HI and AR form a good representation of the US COVID situation, then you would be correct, the United States is doing just fine.


Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 02, 2021, 03:57:57 PM
News report in the UK today that a 15 year old girl has died of the Coronavirus, no underlying health problems, physically fit and not fat was supposed to have gotten the vaccine on the day she died so was offered too late for her. Shocking that it can take someone so young and in good health, from the report it looks like it affected her badly fast as only 4days after positive PCR test that she passed away:

BBC News - Portsmouth girl, 15, dies of Covid on day she was due jab
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-58772671
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 03, 2021, 12:30:05 AM
Virus infections going up steeply in Ukraine now, 12,000 infections a day and climbing and over 200 deaths per day. For a population of around 44 million in a fairly large country it probably works out as quite a lot. Still most Ukrainians without having been vaccinated in a country with a slow vaccination roll out. Looks like things will only go from bad to worse out there over the coming days, weeks and months as little to stop the spread.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 05, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
200 deaths per day with 44 million inhabitants, adjusted for population, roughly equals current US daily deaths. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 06, 2021, 09:24:08 AM
Stubborn facts and veracity of reality.

World-O-Meter report as of today, October 6, 2021.

For the United States of America. With all its citizen pushbacks, ambivalence towards draconian style of existence during the pandemic, these are the actual values of how COVID-19 affected the population. Not the silly deaths/million column.

Population: 333,447,797
Reported Active Cases: 44,786,258
Deaths: 724,838

Mortality Rate: 0.217% (# death vs. population)
Case Fatality Rate: 1.62% (# who were infected and died of and with COVID-19)
Survivability Rate: 98.38% (survived COVID-19 infection)
Virulence: 0.22% (Rate of how COVID is transmitted within)


Comparably, in Italy, the corresponding numbers are:
0.217%
2.80%
0.22%


With the exception of CFR, people dying after getting infected, the numbers are fairly well the same. I won't waste my time blaming their medical system for that anymore. No siree! This, despite their folks were/are living within a policed state! Go figure...

Caution: Some of the numbers we see in all these reports need to be taken with some grain of salt. Too many variables to consider to arrive to any discernible certainty. These are, at best at this time, very educated guesses..

Bottom line, COVID-19 is the same virus found in Timbuktoo, as it is in the USA or anywhere else. Interestingly, despite all the hoopla about how some nations are more diligent in their silly draconian attitudes compared to the careless losers in the US, the end result based on these relatable percentages, is the same after nearly two years of this pandemic.

Last year, the pundits blamed everything about COVID on Trump. But this year that changed. They simply won't blame it on Biden, so they blame it on *Trump supporters* since Trump is gone instead.

Recognize partisan 'opinions' who would like to twist things as though they're factual to push some silly narrative.

Numbers never lie.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 06, 2021, 12:08:09 PM
Think the upcoming issue in the west will become when to revaccinate the general wider population. Elderly are of course being done at the moment but I reckon by next year the vaccine's effectiveness will be decreasing in most people. Vaccine effectiveness starts decreasing 4-6 months after being jabbed. That's thought to gradually fall away further after that. So at some point next year possibly mid way through the year or thereafter vaccine effectiveness in people is likely to get fairly low and cases and hospitalisations, etc may start rising again. So another round of vaccinations may be needed around that time.

In the east countries like Ukraine are currently facing an enormous rise in cases, etc without much of the population being vaccinated so few protected by vaccine. For many in Ukraine this winter is unfortunately probably looking bleak. Like India it looks like they are just going to have to ride this one out.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 06, 2021, 03:26:35 PM
Stubborn facts and veracity of reality.

World-O-Meter report as of today, October 6, 2021.

For the United States of America. With all its citizen pushbacks, ambivalence towards draconian style of existence during the pandemic, these are the actual values of how COVID-19 affected the population. Not the silly deaths/million column.

Population: 333,447,797
Reported Active Cases: 44,786,258
Deaths: 724,838

Mortality Rate: 0.217% (# death vs. population)
Case Fatality Rate: 1.62% (# who were infected and died of and with COVID-19)
Survivability Rate: 98.38% (survived COVID-19 infection)
Virulence: 0.22% (Rate of how COVID is transmitted within)


Comparably, in Italy, the corresponding numbers are:
0.217%
2.80%
0.22%


With the exception of CFR, people dying after getting infected, the numbers are fairly well the same. I won't waste my time blaming their medical system for that anymore. No siree! This, despite their folks were/are living within a policed state! Go figure...

Your 'mortality rate' is the same as deaths per million, only calculated as a percentage.  No difference.

CFR is a very fuzzy number, as it can only be estimated how many infections occurred. We probably have a better grasp on that nowadays that tests are regularly available, and not restricted to the few that entered hospitals - as things were when the outbreak hit.

Italy had a bad time in the first waves this did lead to the hospital system being overwhelmed and difficult choices being made.  This was last year.  This year, there have been no issues and plenty of ICU space available.  The US OTOH, has not fared so well this year, with a number of state systems being overwhelmed to the point that care was/is rationed and the same difficult choices being made very recently.

Quote
Caution: Some of the numbers we see in all these reports need to be taken with some grain of salt. Too many variables to consider to arrive to any discernible certainty. These are, at best at this time, very educated guesses..

Indeed.

Quote
Bottom line, COVID-19 is the same virus found in Timbuktoo, as it is in the USA or anywhere else. Interestingly, despite all the hoopla about how some nations are more diligent in their silly draconian attitudes compared to the careless losers in the US, the end result based on these relatable percentages, is the same after nearly two years of this pandemic.

Similar 'bottom line', yes, for now.  What is more important IMO is what progress was made after vaccinations began.  In a few weeks time, I'll recalculate figures for my last post highlighting the differences.  For now, suffice it to say that vaccinations and other measures have dramatically slowed hospitalizations and deaths in Italy, but the US sped up and now has zoomed past.

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Last year, the pundits blamed everything about COVID on Trump. But this year that changed. They simply won't blame it on Biden, so they blame it on *Trump supporters* since Trump is gone instead.

I don't know the ratio of unvaccinated Trump supporters, vs others, so can't accurately draw a line.  I do know that many of those that voice their objections loudly are Trump supporters.

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Recognize partisan 'opinions' who would like to twist things as though they're factual to push some silly narrative.

You'll have to specify what you mean by twist things. (see below)

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Numbers never lie.

I agree with you, especially with large numbers at hand, which we unfortunately have.  Interpretation of those numbers, however, can be partially correct or even faulty.

I firmly believe that the measures and vaccination efforts in Italy will show a notable difference.  Let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 06, 2021, 03:31:48 PM
Think the upcoming issue in the west will become when to revaccinate the general wider population. Elderly are of course being done at the moment but I reckon by next year the vaccine's effectiveness will be decreasing in most people. Vaccine effectiveness starts decreasing 4-6 months after being jabbed. That's thought to gradually fall away further after that. So at some point next year possibly mid way through the year or thereafter vaccine effectiveness in people is likely to get fairly low and cases and hospitalisations, etc may start rising again. So another round of vaccinations may be needed around that time.

That may not be the case if the immune system 'remembers' COVID once active antigens dwindle. We may find that only those with weaker immune systems need boosters to help create a better 'memory' effect. Only time will tell.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201102110039.htm
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 06, 2021, 04:16:10 PM
Your 'mortality rate' is the same as deaths per million, only calculated as a percentage.  No difference.

There is a difference, massive, at least from the linear psychological effect part of it. If I told you that only 0.2% (point 2 percent- not 2%) of people die of toxic farts, it has much 'lesser' optic effect, than saying 2,140 people die for every million. Unless a person have a deeper numerical cognitive abilities, number presentation will always have a different reaction.

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CFR is a very fuzzy number, as it can only be estimated how many infections occurred. We probably have a better grasp on that nowadays that tests are regularly available, and not restricted to the few that entered hospitals - as things were when the outbreak hit.

You're describing IFR, not CFR. CFR is based on known reported cases. IFR includes an estimated % of asymptomatic and symptomatic cases.

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Similar 'bottom line', yes, for now.  What is more important IMO is what progress was made after vaccinations began.  In a few weeks time, I'll recalculate figures for my last post highlighting the differences.  For now, suffice it to say that vaccinations and other measures have dramatically slowed hospitalizations and deaths in Italy, but the US sped up and now has zoomed past.

Zoomed past what? As opposed to what? Italy zoomed beyond before?

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I don't know the ratio of unvaccinated Trump supporters, vs others, so can't accurately draw a line.  I do know that many of those that voice their objections loudly are Trump supporters.

Simply a media-induced assumption. I thought more of you because you have as much information to support that than a Somalian in Somalia. Which is NONE.

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You'll have to specify what you mean by twist things. (see below)

To say at this point Timbuktoo is worse (or lacking) than Boondocks, when numbers are saying something otherwise, to support a narrative - yeah, it's twisting for a lack of a better term.

Would it be twisting if I pointed this about your position..."the USA's 'zooming' in its dire COVID cases this year, is directly as a result of the management of the pandemic by the culpability of the president you voted for in the same manner you did so and blamed Trump before?"

Quote
I agree with you, especially with large numbers at hand, which we unfortunately have.  Interpretation of those numbers, however, can be partially correct or even faulty.

If so, then why perpetually wallow on any comparative values between countries which you seem to be obsessed with? IMO, seem rather an exercise in exhausting futility to me.

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I firmly believe that the measures and vaccination efforts in Italy will show a notable difference.  Let's see what happens.

Isn't this the same thing you were saying April/May 2020 when you cited the lack of mandated lockdowns in the US compared to Italy last year, too? Fast forward to 'now', the numbers tell otherwise.

Remember the 90-day Biden directive to find out the Wuhan theory? Where did that 'wait&see' landed 120 days later?

When does it end with you, and what is really your point in all these?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 07, 2021, 05:56:48 AM
There is a difference, massive, at least from the linear psychological effect part of it. If I told you that only 0.2% (point 2 percent- not 2%) of people die of toxic farts, it has much 'lesser' optic effect, than saying 2,140 people die for every million. Unless a person have a deeper numerical cognitive abilities, number presentation will always have a different reaction.

Ask someone if they would take .2% of a 330 million dollar lottery.  They'll understand quick enough.

Quote
You're describing IFR, not CFR. CFR is based on known reported cases. IFR includes an estimated % of asymptomatic and symptomatic cases.

You are correct, however different testing methods over time in different countries or places don't allow it to be used as a comparative value.  The CFR of the US is just that.  Deaths per capita is pretty much the same in most countries and can be used with a much smaller margin of error.

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Zoomed past what? As opposed to what? Italy zoomed beyond before?

Deaths per capita.  The US fared better than Italy before vaccines, and now with vaccines has fared worse, surpassing deaths per capita in Italy.

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Simply a media-induced assumption. I thought more of you because you have as much information to support that than a Somalian in Somalia. Which is NONE.

To say at this point Timbuktoo is worse (or lacking) than Boondocks, when numbers are saying something otherwise, to support a narrative - yeah, it's twisting for a lack of a better term.

Not really if the underlying data is sound.

Quote
Would it be twisting if I pointed this about your position..."the USA's 'zooming' in its dire COVID cases this year, is directly as a result of the management of the pandemic by the culpability of the president you voted for in the same manner you did so and blamed Trump before?"

If so, then why perpetually wallow on any comparative values between countries which you seem to be obsessed with? IMO, seem rather an exercise in exhausting futility to me.

Sure, Biden now carries responsibility. Based on the much better performance in other nations, there was, and is a lot of room for improvement.  Vaccine hesitancy is only one factor involved.

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Isn't this the same thing you were saying April/May 2020 when you cited the lack of mandated lockdowns in the US compared to Italy last year, too? Fast forward to 'now', the numbers tell otherwise.

Yes, the US could have done much better, even halving or more the number of deaths.

Quote
Remember the 90-day Biden directive to find out the Wuhan theory? Where did that 'wait&see' landed 120 days later?

Sure I do.  They were not able to make a determination as to the source of the virus.

Quote
When does it end with you, and what is really your point in all these?

The point is that we could have done so much better overcoming this crisis and did not.  When others improved, we again did not.  We had all advantages goin for us and wasted them.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on October 07, 2021, 06:23:09 AM
I think I'm coming down more on the side of personal choice on vaccines.  I'm against the mandates.  There is a good argument to be made for SOME people not to get the shot.   I heard on dreaded talk radio that there is a way to get the antibodies test.  I should probably do that.   If I have the antibodies, I think I'd leave it at that.  If I didn't have the antibodies, I would more seriously consider getting the latest/greatest vaccination. 

Of course here in Los Angeles the restrictions are becoming more and more severe for the unvaccinated, so more and more people are getting their arms twisted into getting them.   Then those bloated vaccination numbers are touted as 'everybody is doing it', when really a significant percentage are bullied into it. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 07, 2021, 09:12:15 AM
FT,

we've been 'bullied' to get vaccines since the first day we went to school.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 07, 2021, 09:39:49 AM
Ask someone if they would take .2% of a 330 million dollar lottery.  They'll understand quick enough.

You still don't understand. If the lottery gives you a winning percentage of 99.98% of the time, would you buy a ticket, more or less than if I told you the chances of winning the lotto is 2,100 in a million?

Can you imagine if world-o-meter displays 'chances of survival rate of 98.3% instead of the daily body count? Are you getting this at all?

Quote
You are correct, however different testing methods over time in different countries or places don't allow it to be used as a comparative value.  The CFR of the US is just that.  Deaths per capita is pretty much the same in most countries and can be used with a much smaller margin of error.

No it isn't. Regardless how you try to deflect it. CFR in the US is CFR in Italy. Cold number is there, BC. In Italy, figuratively and literally, people have almost a 100% more chances of DYING after infection compared to the US. Why that is, you tell me...inferior medical facilities/methodology? Tribal/medieval approach to medicine (mini-miney-moo, who lives and who goes)? I have no idea.

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Deaths per capita.  The US fared better than Italy before vaccines, and now with vaccines has fared worse, surpassing deaths per capita in Italy.

LMAO! October 7, 2021 - world-o-meter : 116 new deaths in the US, 41 in Italy. Extend that to 5.51 population ratio. I can help you out if you need it.

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Not really if the underlying data is sound.

You have solid proofs and accurate accounting of this? You don't say! Mind posting that here?

You munch on way too much fake news, BC. There must be something else to do in Italy during your police-enforced lockdowns than drown yourself on tabloid TVs...No wonder Italians created a special name for it - *paparazzi* (I said that with an Italian accent for emphasis, too.

Here's a peak on what and how Americans handle their fear of covid: This was last night's game with LA's 'other' MLBers' win against St Louis. Players and fans alike aren't wearing those silly masks, and mind you, better than a good chance these are 'vaccinated' sheep believing they can't spread the virus around anymore, courtesy of course of the imbecile at the WH you helped make a mess of our country.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/nl-wild-card-game-highlights-cardinals-vs-dodgers/vi-AAPdR4h (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/nl-wild-card-game-highlights-cardinals-vs-dodgers/vi-AAPdR4h)

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Sure, Biden now carries responsibility. Based on the much better performance in other nations, there was, and is a lot of room for improvement.  Vaccine hesitancy is only one factor involved.

...and may you feel responsible for that in silence and humility.

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Yes, the US could have done much better, even halving or more the number of deaths.

Too late for that. The Democrats and the liberals had even made a coronation celebration to place Fauci in legendary status.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/reviewed/2021/10/06/how-watch-anthony-fauci-documentary-disney-plus/6010283001/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/reviewed/2021/10/06/how-watch-anthony-fauci-documentary-disney-plus/6010283001/)

Again, people who put these idiots into power ought to do some serious soul searching these days.

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Sure I do.  They were not able to make a determination as to the source of the virus.

The entire world knew that already, BC. You were the one who held faith that this imbecile would actually make a difference and ushered us to wait and see...Fauci, the US cannot a) present evidence that WE ARE complicit into release of the virus, and b) at the same time give merit to Trump's early declaration that this came from the lab.

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The point is that we could have done so much better overcoming this crisis and did not.  When others improved, we again did not.  We had all advantages goin for us and wasted them.

Could have done so much better? .217% mortality rate? Survival rate at better than 98%+ after infected? Any better than that, we've just be closer to 100% or no one dying at all!!

Listen, sad to those how passed away due to this virus. When greater than 90% of those who perished have at least one-two comorbidities, mostly why the older generation got hit the worst. it isn't so much the virus killing people, but the diseases and unhealthy state of the people that undid them. The virus simply hasten that imminent process.

Could have done better is people a) stop smoking, vaping, b) stop the super-sizing greasy burgers and fries, c) quit those high-sugar/fructose diets they stuff their mouths with, etc...

That's a much better 'could've, would've, should've'...both for Italians, Americans, Timbuktooians...
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 07, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
You still don't understand. If the lottery gives you a winning percentage of 99.98% of the time, would you buy a ticket, more or less than if I told you the chances of winning the lotto is 2,100 in a million?

Can you imagine if world-o-meter displays 'chances of survival rate of 98.3% instead of the daily body count? Are you getting this at all?

I am 'getting it' GQ, only I understand that percentages always apply to the group being measured, and not the individual.  If I get COVID, I will either die, or not.  My personal odds remain 50/50.

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No it isn't. Regardless how you try to deflect it. CFR in the US is CFR in Italy. Cold number is there, BC. In Italy, figuratively and literally, people have almost a 100% more chances of DYING after infection compared to the US. Why that is, you tell me...inferior medical facilities/methodology? Tribal/medieval approach to medicine (mini-miney-moo, who lives and who goes)? I have no idea.

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Conclusions
The age structure of the cases explains much of differences in the crude CFRs between countries and adjusting for age substantially reduces this variation. Other factors such as the definition of cases, coding of deaths and the standard of healthcare are likely to account for much of the residual variation. It is misleading to compare the crude COVID-19 CFRs between countries and should be avoided. At the very least, age-specific and age-adjusted CFRs should be used for comparisons.


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0241031

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LMAO! October 7, 2021 - world-o-meter : 116 new deaths in the US, 41 in Italy. Extend that to 5.51 population ratio. I can help you out if you need it.

The counting day is over in Italy, and not so in the US.  Try 7 day averages instead.  50 vs 1500 or so.  Italy's death counts are completed daily, with only small variation, whereas in the US death reporting can lag and exhibits wide daily variations.

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You have solid proofs and accurate accounting of this? You don't say! Mind posting that here?

You do your homework, like you did above, and I'll be happy to proof it.

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You munch on way too much fake news, BC. There must be something else to do in Italy during your police-enforced lockdowns than drown yourself on tabloid TVs...No wonder Italians created a special name for it - *paparazzi* (I said that with an Italian accent for emphasis, too.

No lockdowns in Italy for quite a while GQ.  No need for them.  Deaths are low, hospitalizations are low, vaccinations are high at 80% of over 12 years old, compliance with masking and mandates are high.  I am in the US and have observed in several cities and counties, with and without mandates. In cities where mandates exist, compliance is higher, resulting infections and death lower.  No magic involved.

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Here's a peak on what and how Americans handle their fear of covid: This was last night's game with LA's 'other' MLBers' win against St Louis. Players and fans alike aren't wearing those silly masks, and mind you, better than a good chance these are 'vaccinated' sheep believing they can't spread the virus around anymore, courtesy of course of the imbecile at the WH you helped make a mess of our country.

I agree.  Mandates should be national and not local.  I believe Biden & Co should have pushed harder for them, especially with such a low vaccination rate.  I believe vaccinations + masking indoors or where distancing cannot be assured is the key.  This is clearly shown in all data I have seen and correlates to my personal observations in both countries.


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...and may you feel responsible for that in silence and humility.

'twas the only viable vote.  I am convinced that under Trump it would be much worse.

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Too late for that. The Democrats and the liberals had even made a coronation celebration to place Fauci in legendary status.

National problems need to be addressed with national and not state solutions.  CDC, Fauci et al should have been much more forceful on this, despite some improvement over the past regime.

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Again, people who put these idiots into power ought to do some serious soul searching these days.

They must also recognize the threatening headwind our political system poses.

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The entire world knew that already, BC. You were the one who held faith that this imbecile would actually make a difference and ushered us to wait and see...Fauci, the US cannot a) present evidence that WE ARE complicit into release of the virus, and b) at the same time give merit to Trump's early declaration that this came from the lab.

Where it came from is irrelevant.  What we do about it, or not, is very relevant.  Knowing where it came from may only help prevent same in the future.

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Could have done so much better? .217% mortality rate? Survival rate at better than 98%+ after infected? Any better than that, we've just be closer to 100% or no one dying at all!!

If others are able to do better than we, we should be looking more closely at how and not be afraid to do the same.  Again, our 'exceptionalism' is killing us.

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Listen, sad to those how passed away due to this virus. When greater than 90% of those who perished have at least one-two comorbidities, mostly why the older generation got hit the worst. it isn't so much the virus killing people, but the diseases and unhealthy state of the people that undid them. The virus simply hasten that imminent process.

As stated before, the majority of Americans have at least one and possibly two or more comorbidities. 

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Could have done better is people a) stop smoking, vaping, b) stop the super-sizing greasy burgers and fries, c) quit those high-sugar/fructose diets they stuff their mouths with, etc...

Surely that would help, but other factors may be involved as well, even genetic.  Age, one of the most prominent factors, can't be avoided.

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That's a much better 'could've, would've, should've'...both for Italians, Americans, Timbuktooians...

Sure.  Some countries have clearly learned from early mistakes and did better than we.  The bigger question is if we can learn from them.

I'm in the process of packing and will be traveling the next couple of days.  See you when I'm on the other side of the Atlantic.  I'll tackle the post vaccination myths and maths upon my return.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 08, 2021, 04:19:35 AM
I am 'getting it' GQ, only I understand that percentages always apply to the group being measured, and not the individual.  If I get COVID, I will either die, or not.  My personal odds remain 50/50.

In the US, not true. Again. Survival rate is in excess of 98%. But then of course you live in Italy. So who knows.

Quote
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0241031

Not quite sure what your point in what you Googled and posted as a riposte to the subject of CFR. Then in Jeffrey Dahmer fashion, leave the link by its lonesome self and abandoned any point you’re running from.

1. It didn’t invalidated what I defined as CFR.
2.  If any, It gave a strong support in what I have been saying all along. A) results (deaths) vary due to more than a few reasons (even cited ‘standard of healthcare’ 🤪) and more importantly, it’s futile to compare countries, which you are prone to do.

You are starting to prove, and will deny this fact, that you’re arguing your own point now.

Quote
The counting day is over in Italy, and not so in the US.  Try 7 day averages instead.  50 vs 1500 or so.  Italy's death counts are completed daily, with only small variation, whereas in the US death reporting can lag and exhibits wide daily variations.

Italians are still dying as we speak, BC. I just posted that above! Now for a lack of either understanding of the subject on hand, you’re back to this silly 7-day nonsense for a desperate grasp at some silly point you’re searching for. I just gave you numbers above from the beginning of the pandemic to now, and showed you your pointless exercises and beliefs.

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You do your homework, like you did above, and I'll be happy to proof it.

Ahh, the CNN/MSNBC shuffle. LMAO! Translation: it was just BS!

Quote
No lockdowns in Italy for quite a while GQ.  No need for them.  Deaths are low, hospitalizations are low, vaccinations are high at 80% of over 12 years old, compliance with masking and mandates are high.  I am in the US and have observed in several cities and counties, with and without mandates. In cities where mandates exist, compliance is higher, resulting infections and death lower.  No magic involved.

Again, Italians are still dying BC. Just as they are in the US and Timbuktoo. Vaccinated or otherwise, there are still immune compromised folks who are unfortunately still in vulnerable state.

Quote
I agree.  Mandates should be national and not local.  I believe Biden & Co should have pushed harder for them, especially with such a low vaccination rate.  I believe vaccinations + masking indoors or where distancing cannot be assured is the key.  This is clearly shown in all data I have seen and correlates to my personal observations in both countries.

This virus will continue to exist, period. It will continue to kill those with comorbidities. Vaccinated obese folks will almost certainty going to pay that price. This grim reaper is literally nature’s molecular point that only the strong will survive. The bone collector is making house calls, baby!

Quote
'twas the only viable vote.  I am convinced that under Trump it would be much worse.

At your age, best see your doctor. Something’s not clicking right with you. Your perception of lesser evil is off kilter. Allow me to remind you, at the least, it was under Trump’s management that the vaccine got done that you seem to cherish so much.

Quote
National problems need to be addressed with national and not state solutions.  CDC, Fauci et al should have been much more forceful on this, despite some improvement over the past regime.

How can Fauci and the company of vacillating idiots be more forceful when they keep changing their minds on what they tell people.

Quote
They must also recognize the threatening headwind our political system poses.

That the pandemic became political is directly caused and attributed to one political party in the US for the sole nefarious ambition to govern the purse of this country. We are blatantly witnessing that these very days!

Quote
Where it came from is irrelevant.  What we do about it, or not, is very relevant.  Knowing where it came from may only help prevent same in the future.

Can you see the fallacy of your arguments? Of course genesis of this, and any other catastrophic event, is enormously important to determine and understand. It is, and had always been, foremost in the ensuing development of counter measures, BC! What on earth are you talking about? They’ve done this methodology dealing with wildfires, pandemics, etc..

Why do you think those high-priced, well subsidized knuckleheads called scientists had been rummaging through Chinese caves playing with bats, for chrissakes!

They’ve even tried this application by feeding us faux science to extol dollars to combat the natural cycles of climate change.

Quote
If others are able to do better than we, we should be looking more closely at how and not be afraid to do the same.  Again, our 'exceptionalism' is killing us.

1. Yes. I am exceptional. You?
2. Others? Like who? You don’t mean Italians? No thanks. They choose who dies and who lives when things got a bit tight.

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As stated before, the majority of Americans have at least one and possibly two or more comorbidities. 

Yeppers. It’s the same in the US, Italy and Timbuktoo. I tire of making this point incessantly. It’s starting to bore me.

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Surely that would help, but other factors may be involved as well, even genetic.  Age, one of the most prominent factors, can't be avoided.

Age is simply the consequence of the natural health decline that espouses comorbidities. Age in of itself is not a causal consequence of severity of infection or even fatality. True our immune system weakens with age, but the primal reason people die of this virus is when our immune system is already at a weakened state fighting other antigens within our system.

Quote
Sure.  Some countries have clearly learned from early mistakes and did better than we.  The bigger question is if we can learn from them.

Who is this ‘we’? Learn what and from whom?

Your failure to grasp the very basic of this pandemic is evident by that statement. The fatality rate of each nation is dependent solely on the residing variable WITHIN that location and border. In every society, there's a percentage amount of people who are 'at-risk' of dying with this virus. That's just the lone and only fact to all of these. It had little to do on what time the sun shines in Australia or Ukraine.

Italians hid behind rat holes when the sh!t hit the fan there, and guess what, it didn't stop the spread and people kept dying from them. Asymptomatic folks lock-downed with their families for days viral shedding one another, LMAO! Vaccination DOES NOT prevent you from getting infected or spreading it. Vaccinated people (with comorbidities) are still dying. You bought wholesale into somehow believing you're invincible for being vaccinated. I am far more invincible than you being unvaccinated.

Get with the program and quit subscribing information from the main stream media. You're beginning to spread disinformation.

There's no hospitalization crisis in the US. Think of this VERY simply fact. At worst, in the initial case in NY, Trump's admin setup makeshift hospitals in addition to the ship Mercy anticipating overflow cases from hospitals. You know what happened there. Even considering there's now information that the Democrat Coumo intentionally falsified the dead count. The hospitalization crisis you (may have) watched on CNN/MSNBC are fake news to get people to get vaccinated. It's the same tactic used to convince the sheep population within us that Russian Collusion was real.

Lastly, can you name the countries that actually PRODUCED the vaccines you laud upon these days, BC? I doubt you’d find ‘Italy’ in that lot. So I ask - what exactly can the US learn from Italy? Land of paparazzi. Even Amanda Knox can attest to the veracity of that statement.

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I'm in the process of packing and will be traveling the next couple of days.  See you when I'm on the other side of the Atlantic.  I'll tackle the post vaccination myths and maths upon my return.

Enjoy the flight. Please take a Democrat or two with you 😜 so we can 'Make America Great Again'.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on October 08, 2021, 12:01:27 PM
I am 'getting it' GQ, only I understand that percentages always apply to the group being measured, and not the individual.  If I get COVID, I will either die, or not.  My personal odds remain 50/50.

I disagree a little here, to split hairs.

Odds is a probability concept.

For instance, odds is used in horse racing.  Yes it is true that each horse will either win or not win.

But odds makers do not set the odds on each horse as 50/50.

Likewise, each person's odds of dying from any disease is not 50/50 but rather some probability based on person's overall health, etc.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 10, 2021, 10:01:28 AM
ML,

with horse racing, the odds are calculated on the past performance of individual horses.  The 'group' is the horse.

Such is not the case with vaccine studies.  There the group may be many thousand individuals and the statistics derived are for the whole group.

example:

Reading level survey.

Of 100 persons, 50 scored at 6th grade level, and 50 scored at 12th grade level.  The derived reading grade level for the group of 100 might be 9th grade, but none of the persons had a 9th grade reading level, or anything near it.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on October 10, 2021, 10:10:28 AM
BC what you last wrote may be true, but too complicated with respect to what I wrote to you.

For any one person who catches Covid, their odds of dying is NOT 50/50.

While it is true that odds of getting heads on the flip of a 'fair' coin is 50/50,

there are too many variables involved that determine whether a person  who has Covid will die from it to assert the same 50/50 odds.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 10, 2021, 11:05:22 AM
In the US, not true. Again. Survival rate is in excess of 98%. But then of course you live in Italy. So who knows.

See my reply to ML

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Not quite sure what your point in what you Googled and posted as a riposte to the subject of CFR. Then in Jeffrey Dahmer fashion, leave the link by its lonesome self and abandoned any point you’re running from.

1. It didn’t invalidated what I defined as CFR.
2.  If any, It gave a strong support in what I have been saying all along. A) results (deaths) vary due to more than a few reasons (even cited ‘standard of healthcare’ 🤪) and more importantly, it’s futile to compare countries, which you are prone to do.

I thought you would read the conclusions:

Quote
Conclusions
The age structure of the cases explains much of differences in the crude CFRs between countries and adjusting for age substantially reduces this variation. Other factors such as the definition of cases, coding of deaths and the standard of healthcare are likely to account for much of the residual variation. It is misleading to compare the crude COVID-19 CFRs between countries and should be avoided. At the very least, age-specific and age-adjusted CFRs should be used for comparisons.

Quote
You are starting to prove, and will deny this fact, that you’re arguing your own point now.

I wasn't comparing CFR, you were.

Quote
Italians are still dying as we speak, BC. I just posted that above! Now for a lack of either understanding of the subject on hand, you’re back to this silly 7-day nonsense for a desperate grasp at some silly point you’re searching for. I just gave you numbers above from the beginning of the pandemic to now, and showed you your pointless exercises and beliefs.

Yes, since vaccination efforts began, they are dying at a rate that is substantially lower than the per capita rate in the US, which is my point.

Quote
Ahh, the CNN/MSNBC shuffle. LMAO! Translation: it was just BS!

No shuffle, just asking for your numbers.

Quote
Again, Italians are still dying BC. Just as they are in the US and Timbuktoo. Vaccinated or otherwise, there are still immune compromised folks who are unfortunately still in vulnerable state.

Almost all vulnerable in Italy have been vaccinated. 17.24% of those that died were vaccinated, the rest not.  Assuming, as you do, that most were in a vulnerable state, surely you agree vaccinations worked quite well or?

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This virus will continue to exist, period. It will continue to kill those with comorbidities. Vaccinated obese folks will almost certainty going to pay that price. This grim reaper is literally nature’s molecular point that only the strong will survive. The bone collector is making house calls, baby!

Yes, along with some that do not have any comorbidities.

Quote
At your age, best see your doctor. Something’s not clicking right with you. Your perception of lesser evil is off kilter. Allow me to remind you, at the least, it was under Trump’s management that the vaccine got done that you seem to cherish so much.

Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the vaccine I was given. All Trump did was order in advance, like many other countries did.

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How can Fauci and the company of vacillating idiots be more forceful when they keep changing their minds on what they tell people.

I do agree the message has been garbled.  Too many cooks stirring the pot each trying to tweak their own recipe.

Quote
That the pandemic became political is directly caused and attributed to one political party in the US for the sole nefarious ambition to govern the purse of this country. We are blatantly witnessing that these very days!

Trump tried to run the show, or?

Quote
Can you see the fallacy of your arguments? Of course genesis of this, and any other catastrophic event, is enormously important to determine and understand. It is, and had always been, foremost in the ensuing development of counter measures, BC! What on earth are you talking about? They’ve done this methodology dealing with wildfires, pandemics, etc..

There is a time to cry over spilled milk, now is not that time.  We may know more in the future, but it won't help with what is happening today.

Quote
Why do you think those high-priced, well subsidized knuckleheads called scientists had been rummaging through Chinese caves playing with bats, for chrissakes!

They’ve even tried this application by feeding us faux science to extol dollars to combat the natural cycles of climate change. [/quote]

They have been studying bats, the virus they carry, and the immunity system of bats for decades.  Bats don't die of this and many other viruses.  Don't you think it would be helpful to know what their immune system does that ours doesn't?

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1. Yes. I am exceptional. You?
2. Others? Like who? You don’t mean Italians? No thanks. They choose who dies and who lives when things got a bit tight.

I don't feel my US passport gives me any exceptional powers. What the Italians and others are doing is working, so why ignore them?

Quote
Yeppers. It’s the same in the US, Italy and Timbuktoo. I tire of making this point incessantly. It’s starting to bore me.

Then stay bored.  It is a sign of denial.

Quote
Age is simply the consequence of the natural health decline that espouses comorbidities. Age in of itself is not a causal consequence of severity of infection or even fatality. True our immune system weakens with age, but the primal reason people die of this virus is when our immune system is already at a weakened state fighting other antigens within our system.

Science has given us the possibility to prolong our lives by many decades already.  We're now fighting to keep it that way.  Simple.

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Who is this ‘we’? Learn what and from whom?

We in the US.  Learn from the experience of other countries.

Quote
Your failure to grasp the very basic of this pandemic is evident by that statement. The fatality rate of each nation is dependent solely on the residing variable WITHIN that location and border. In every society, there's a percentage amount of people who are 'at-risk' of dying with this virus. That's just the lone and only fact to all of these. It had little to do on what time the sun shines in Australia or Ukraine.

If so, what is your solution?  Do nothing?

Quote
Italians hid behind rat holes when the sh!t hit the fan there, and guess what, it didn't stop the spread and people kept dying from them. Asymptomatic folks lock-downed with their families for days viral shedding one another, LMAO! Vaccination DOES NOT prevent you from getting infected or spreading it. Vaccinated people (with comorbidities) are still dying. You bought wholesale into somehow believing you're invincible for being vaccinated. I am far more invincible than you being unvaccinated.

Vaccinations AND prudent use of masks lowers the number of infections considerably.  Lockdowns were used when these measures were not available.

Quote
Get with the program and quit subscribing information from the main stream media. You're beginning to spread disinformation.

I read and watch media of all types.

Quote
There's no hospitalization crisis in the US. Think of this VERY simply fact. At worst, in the initial case in NY, Trump's admin setup makeshift hospitals in addition to the ship Mercy anticipating overflow cases from hospitals. You know what happened there. Even considering there's now information that the Democrat Coumo intentionally falsified the dead count. The hospitalization crisis you (may have) watched on CNN/MSNBC are fake news to get people to get vaccinated. It's the same tactic used to convince the sheep population within us that Russian Collusion was real.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/17/hospitals-ration-care-covid/

Draw your own conclusions after reading. 

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Lastly, can you name the countries that actually PRODUCED the vaccines you laud upon these days, BC? I doubt you’d find ‘Italy’ in that lot. So I ask - what exactly can the US learn from Italy? Land of paparazzi. Even Amanda Knox can attest to the veracity of that statement.

Vaccines don't inject themselves.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/07/23/covid-benefits-the-italian-billionaire-family-making-glass-vials-for-vaccines-scores-with-us-ipo/

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Enjoy the flight. Please take a Democrat or two with you 😜 so we can 'Make America Great Again'.

Hahahahaha  You forget folks can vote from anywhere on the planet with just a few clicks on our computer ;)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 10, 2021, 11:13:00 AM
there are too many variables involved that determine whether a person  who has Covid will die from it to assert the same 50/50 odds.

Indeed, there are a lot of variables.  Some, yet unknown, even genetics is being explored with several markers identified.  Vaccines have always been a shotgun approach.  Some folks die of influenza, some don't.  Would be great if everyone got the flu shot, though.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 11, 2021, 09:12:40 AM
..greased-up verbosity void of substantive content


Take it from someone who actually follow the science and NOT the partisan hacking you seem to subscribe to. You no longer show any semblance of rational thought due your deep emotional and political indoctrination.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bamaEMftg4

If you're not satisfied with 'his' scientific explanation, then blame that idiot you voted for the way you blamed the last administration for the pandemic.


Next time, compare your pasta-logic and call it chow mein. Soon 'nuff it'll be one and the same anyway. Mini-mini, miney, moo - who dies and who goes!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 11, 2021, 09:45:18 AM
GQ,

I watched the video a week or so ago.  I have no qualms with Dr Campbell's assessment.

Here in EU, since you tested positive, you would qualify for a green pass for 6 months, maybe longer as more evidence of the qualities of natural immunity vs vaccines develops.

Dr Campbell also was quite clear about the approach with vaccine mandates vs testing the population, and that the simplest approach is to mandate vaccines vs the individual approach with extensive and expensive testing prior.

I already agree with you that the approach in the US has been more politicized and haphazard than in other countries.  A 'green pass' approach presents a much clearer path forward.  Unfortunately, due to politics, the US has a fairly large unvaccinated population that does not want to accept a green pass approach, AND don't want to accept the straightforward green pass approach.

Obviously, this has resulted in higher hospitalizations and deaths in the US vs other countries.

Pretty easy eh?

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 11, 2021, 10:17:37 AM
GQ,

I watched the video a week or so ago.  I have no qualms with Dr Campbell's assessment.

Here in EU, since you tested positive, you would qualify for a green pass for 6 months, maybe longer as more evidence of the qualities of natural immunity vs vaccines develops.

Dr Campbell also was quite clear about the approach with vaccine mandates vs testing the population, and that the simplest approach is to mandate vaccines vs the individual approach with extensive and expensive testing prior.

I already agree with you that the approach in the US has been more politicized and haphazard than in other countries.  A 'green pass' approach presents a much clearer path forward.  Unfortunately, due to politics, the US has a fairly large unvaccinated population that does not want to accept a green pass approach, AND don't want to accept the straightforward green pass approach.

You still failed to recognize a very basic, fundamental fact of what is going on in the US main street. Considering you actually spent time here recently, you still managed to miss why there's dissent towards the federal mandates as they are being fed to the population.

The entire COVID scare and all the silly mandate is/are causing massive economic impact in every sector of the labor industry. The Long Beach port-of-entry have a massive jam of ships waiting to be unloaded due to local mandates and lack of labor force to unload/truck, etc...the products to hit the demands, and in turn, not enough 'empty' containers and export goods to get set on along its way.

That stick trailing your behind is so caught-up in Italy-is-better-yadayada logic is so prevalent in your psyche as though you're desperately justifying your decision to live in the alleged utopia in your mind.

BC, Italy no longer have an identity of its own without the Chinese 'Lee' tag line. Why on earth would the US wanna copy that? Italy is China's bit*h these days.


Quote
Obviously, this has resulted in higher hospitalizations and deaths in the US vs other countries.Pretty easy eh?


I hope one of these days your knowledge of numeric relationships will enlighten you much better on how to view logic and relativity in our world.

'Higher' in number is a direct result of larger sampling leading to greater frequency. You seem to struggle with this fairly basic relationship. Maybe that's a direct result of you living in Italy much too long.


That's pretty sad, BC.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 11, 2021, 10:38:18 AM
...
I thought you would read the conclusions:

I wasn't comparing CFR, you were...

Pure unadulterated bullsh!t! That fact is pestered in your every post. It's futile trying to debate with someone with a roving goal post.

Quote
Hahahahaha  You forget folks can vote from anywhere on the planet with just a few clicks on our computer

I didn't forget. I realize not too many people have the spine to back their conviction, is all...maybe call it hopeful inference. This nation can't fly like an eagle it once did with the growing number of turkeys around it.


Go Biden, eh?! Yipeeee...
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 11, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
You still failed to recognize a very basic, fundamental fact of what is going on in the US main street. Considering you actually spent time here recently, you still managed to miss why there's dissent towards the federal mandates as they are being fed to the population.

The entire COVID scare and all the silly mandate is/are causing massive economic impact in every sector of the labor industry. The Long Beach port-of-entry have a massive jam of ships waiting to be unloaded due to local mandates and lack of labor force to unload/truck, etc...the products to hit the demands, and in turn, not enough 'empty' containers and export goods to get set on along its way.

Sure, logistics is experiencing a perfect storm with many causes, COVID being one of them.  The blocked Suez Canal was another disruptive factor and the industry is still reeling from that as well.  It was expected that that event alone put shipping on an uneven keel that would take many months to straighten itself out, and it will, with time.  Until then, no one is going to starve, and some positive aspects may come about as well.  Warehouses and aisles are full of boxed goods at Walmart and other stores that isn't getting on the shelf, filling warehouses. Goods are being stored in ocean containers, causing a shortage.  With months of 100k daily infections, a good part of the workforce is infected and can't work.  Places where most folks are vaccinated and are using masks have less of a labor problem.  And you wonder why Biz wants vaccine and mask mandates?  Maybe you are dwelling in the problem instead of the solution?

http://www.businessinsider.com/suez-canal-reopened-supply-chain-issues-shipping-delays-experts-2021-3?r=US&IR=T

Quote
That stick trailing your behind is so caught-up in Italy-is-better-yadayada logic is so prevalent in your psyche as though you're desperately justifying your decision to live in the alleged utopia in your mind.

BC, Italy no longer have an identity of its own without the Chinese 'Lee' tag line. Why on earth would the US wanna copy that? Italy is China's bit*h these days.

No worries about psyche here, GQ.  Your inability to accept critique is more telling.  Italy is not a loner.  Quite a few countries are doing much better than we in the US.  Why so intent on blaming them for *whatever*, when the problem is ours in the US?

Quote


I hope one of these days your knowledge of numeric relationships will enlighten you much better on how to view logic and relativity in our world.

'Higher' in number is a direct result of larger sampling leading to greater frequency. You seem to struggle with this fairly basic relationship. Maybe that's a direct result of you living in Italy much too long.


That's pretty sad, BC.

Numbers of deaths are not due to over or under-sampling.  Figures I quoted are population adjusted. That a high number of deaths rides on a wave of high hospitalizations and infections is a given.  Again, what is your solution?  Is it still do nothing and act as if the virus never existed?  Someone in power tried that before.  It didn't work out well, did it?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 11, 2021, 03:26:21 PM
Pure unadulterated bullsh!t! That fact is pestered in your every post. It's futile trying to debate with someone with a roving goal post.

That is why I stick to deaths per million as a good, raw, reference point to gauge performance. It's not a fuzzy number.  After all, dead is dead, and it doesn't take a statistician to count.

Quote
I didn't forget. I realize not too many people have the spine to back their conviction, is all...maybe call it hopeful inference. This nation can't fly like an eagle it once did with the growing number of turkeys around it.

Go Biden, eh?! Yipeeee...

Whatever floats your boat, GQ!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 11, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
Sure, logistics is experiencing a perfect storm with many causes, COVID being one of them.  The blocked Suez Canal was another disruptive factor and the industry is still reeling from that as well.  It was expected that that event alone put shipping on an uneven keel that would take many months to straighten itself out, and it will, with time.  Until then, no one is going to starve, and some positive aspects may come about as well.  Warehouses and aisles are full of boxed goods at Walmart and other stores that isn't getting on the shelf, filling warehouses. Goods are being stored in ocean containers, causing a shortage.  With months of 100k daily infections, a good part of the workforce is infected and can't work.  Places where most folks are vaccinated and are using masks have less of a labor problem.  And you wonder why Biz wants vaccine and mask mandates?  Maybe you are dwelling in the problem instead of the solution?

http://www.businessinsider.com/suez-canal-reopened-supply-chain-issues-shipping-delays-experts-2021-3?r=US&IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com/suez-canal-reopened-supply-chain-issues-shipping-delays-experts-2021-3?r=US&IR=T)

You Google waaay too much. The least you can do before posing is understand if it relates to the subject at hand. The current case of stagnancy have ZERO to do with blocked Suez canal, LOL. That was back in March. Why don't you read 'actual' news for a change.

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/business/supply-chain-crisis-savannah-port.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/business/supply-chain-crisis-savannah-port.html)
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/22/cargo-ships-traffic-jam-los-angeles-california (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/22/cargo-ships-traffic-jam-los-angeles-california)

Quote
No worries about psyche here, GQ.  Your inability to accept critique is more telling.  Italy is not a loner.  Quite a few countries are doing much better than we in the US.  Why so intent on blaming them for *whatever*, when the problem is ours in the US?

Inability to accept critique? LMAO! It isn't like our healthcare system came down to having to choose who dies and who lives. What's to criticize about the US? Methinks you're the one holding that rotting bag, BC.


Quite a few countries doing better?!? Here I thought you just passed the whole 'comparison' BS to me, yet there you are again...

I'll help you out, and put these 'facts' in your 'thinking' cap for a change:

1. In the US, latest study revealed that only 12% of American adults are metabolically healthy. Equate what that means relative to comorbidities/COVID.

2. Demographic distribution in the US. Blacks and Latinos have a high number represent the larger group of metabolically unhealthy in the US. Thus, comparing apples to oranges is just plain silly.

Quote
Numbers of deaths are not due to over or under-sampling.  Figures I quoted are population adjusted. That a high number of deaths rides on a wave of high hospitalizations and infections is a given.

LMAO! I'm sure with your mathematic skill set, it is. See sample below. Population, # of deaths, and your favorite death/million, grasshopper. 'See if you notice anything at all and how it relates'!

Quote
  Again, what is your solution?  Is it still do nothing and act as if the virus never existed?  Someone in power tried that before.  It didn't work out well, did it?

Solution? Stop politicizing the virus for starters. Mind your health to insure your immunity system is prepared for such intrusion. How's that?

There's never been a cure to any virus man had ever encountered, and COVID is not any different. If you have the silly idea that somehow Italy or anyone found the cure for the virus, then my suspicion is spot-on!

That is why I stick to deaths per million as a good, raw, reference point to gauge performance. It's not a fuzzy number.  After all, dead is dead, and it doesn't take a statistician to count.

So is this an admission you were the one comparing apples to oranges, right?

Quote
Whatever floats your boat, GQ!

Always persevering to Make America Great Again nipping one turkey at a time!  :P  Go Joe!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 12, 2021, 12:20:20 AM
You Google waaay too much. The least you can do before posing is understand if it relates to the subject at hand. The current case of stagnancy have ZERO to do with blocked Suez canal, LOL. That was back in March. Why don't you read 'actual' news for a change.

Do read 'actual' news.  The snowball effect of the Suez blockage still lingers. 

http://blog.flexis.com/expected-shipping-challenges-of-2021



Quote
Inability to accept critique? LMAO! It isn't like our healthcare system came down to having to choose who dies and who lives. What's to criticize about the US? Methinks you're the one holding that rotting bag, BC.

Wrong.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/overwhelmed-by-covid-19-patients-alaskas-doctors-make-life-and-death-decisions-11633253401
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/alabama-ray-demonia-hospitals-icu/
http://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article253629758.html

Quote
Quite a few countries doing better?!? Here I thought you just passed the whole 'comparison' BS to me, yet there you are again...

I'll help you out, and put these 'facts' in your 'thinking' cap for a change:

1. In the US, latest study revealed that only 12% of American adults are metabolically healthy. Equate what that means relative to comorbidities/COVID.

2. Demographic distribution in the US. Blacks and Latinos have a high number represent the larger group of metabolically unhealthy in the US. Thus, comparing apples to oranges is just plain silly.

Hospitalizations and deaths from COVID is highly preventable, even for those with comorbidities.  It seems you are simply looking for someone to blame for missing the bus.  It's not like vaccines and masks are not available nowadays.

Quote
LMAO! I'm sure with your mathematic skill set, it is. See sample below. Population, # of deaths, and your favorite death/million, grasshopper. 'See if you notice anything at all and how it relates'!

Sure, I notice that states with low vaccination rates and mask usage experience higher hospitalization and death rates.  Again, COVID is now preventable.

Quote
Solution? Stop politicizing the virus for starters. Mind your health to insure your immunity system is prepared for such intrusion. How's that?

There's never been a cure to any virus man had ever encountered, and COVID is not any different. If you have the silly idea that somehow Italy or anyone found the cure for the virus, then my suspicion is spot-on!

COVID can't yet be cured, but an overwhelming portion of hospitalizations and deaths can now be prevented.

Quote
So is this an admission you were the one comparing apples to oranges, right?

Not in the context I am using.  While you are correct the US has higher rates with some comorbidities like obesity, Italy has a much older population that is more susceptible to ill effects of COVID.  Regardless, and again, since December 2020 vaccines and masks are available to anyone who wants them.  Countries that have high vaccination rates and mask mandates have fared better than the US in 2021.  This is a fact.

Quote
Always persevering to Make America Great Again nipping one turkey at a time!  :P  Go Joe!

Thanksgiving is a ways off still.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 12, 2021, 03:33:25 AM
Do read 'actual' news.  The snowball effect of the Suez blockage still lingers. 

http://blog.flexis.com/expected-shipping-challenges-of-2021

A Blog!! And he thinks it’s ‘news’. Grasping….straws! LMAO.

Hell, I’m wasting time debating with someone who in apparent desperation fails to distinguish the difference in *because of* from *additionally*!

Quote

Wrong.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/overwhelmed-by-covid-19-patients-alaskas-doctors-make-life-and-death-decisions-11633253401
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/alabama-ray-demonia-hospitals-icu/
http://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article253629758.html

There you go, another slimy move to pretend it’s apples to apples. What Italians did was barbaric! No other civilized nation did what they did.

Quote
Hospitalizations and deaths from COVID is highly preventable, even for those with comorbidities.  It seems you are simply looking for someone to blame for missing the bus.  It's not like vaccines and masks are not available nowadays.

Non-sensical. Vaccinated folks have died of covid. Why do you think they’ve even began the silly booster shots?

Quote
Sure, I notice that states with low vaccination rates and mask usage experience higher hospitalization and death rates.  Again, COVID is now preventable.

Man, you are slow! No wonder you live in Italy. I even attached a frame to make it easier for you, yet there you are, falls out of the boat and still missed the water!!!

Quote
COVID can't yet be cured, but an overwhelming portion of hospitalizations and deaths can now be prevented.

You are a child of sensationalized news. It was estimated, even before the vaccine, in excess of 80% of people infected of covid are *asymptomatic*! On top of that, in excess of 98% of those who survived the virus are much MORE protected than even those who got the vaccine!

Sheesh BC, at least BillyB makes a modicum of sense now and then.

Quote
Not in the context I am using.  While you are correct the US has higher rates with some comorbidities like obesity, Italy has a much older population that is more susceptible to ill effects of COVID.  Regardless, and again, since December 2020 vaccines and masks are available to anyone who wants them.  Countries that have high vaccination rates and mask mandates have fared better than the US in 2021.  This is a fact.

Ahh, it’s time for rule change, I see. Sorry, but just in sheer numbers, there are far more old farts in the US than Italy, go ask Democrat Cuomo, the molester. So that’s a dead end for you to weasel out of.

Quote
Thanksgiving is a ways off still.

http://youtu.be/fNQAbF33gFM[/quote]

Picking Apples and oranges, apples and oranges, BC likes to go…
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 12, 2021, 09:47:46 AM
A Blog!! And he thinks it’s ‘news’. Grasping….straws! LMAO.

Hell, I’m wasting time debating with someone who in apparent desperation fails to distinguish the difference in *because of* from *additionally*!

Yes, a blog that deals with issues in the logistics and supply chain sector, industries I have been involved in for over 30 years.  You point to a single cause, I point to a chain of events.

Quote
There you go, another slimy move to pretend it’s apples to apples. What Italians did was barbaric! No other civilized nation did what they did.

And how is that any different?  People died due to lack of healthcare resources. I have seen no reports of such since vaccinations began in Italy.

Quote
Non-sensical. Vaccinated folks have died of covid. Why do you think they’ve even began the silly booster shots?

Roughly one tenth for those that have been vaccinated vs unvaccinated.  Is that not 'highly preventable"?

Quote
Man, you are slow! No wonder you live in Italy. I even attached a frame to make it easier for you, yet there you are, falls out of the boat and still missed the water!!!

Describe what you see.

Quote
You are a child of sensationalized news. It was estimated, even before the vaccine, in excess of 80% of people infected of covid are *asymptomatic*! On top of that, in excess of 98% of those who survived the virus are much MORE protected than even those who got the vaccine!

Sheesh BC, at least BillyB makes a modicum of sense now and then.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/if-youve-had-covid-do-you-need-the-vaccine.html

Makes more sense.

Quote
Ahh, it’s time for rule change, I see. Sorry, but just in sheer numbers, there are far more old farts in the US than Italy, go ask Democrat Cuomo, the molester. So that’s a dead end for you to weasel out of.

Proportionate to population, Italy has 19% more over 60's than the US.  That is a significant difference.

(http://i.postimg.cc/RVc3fs7J/Screen-Shot-2021-10-12-at-17-37-38.png)
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Age-distribution/Population-aged-60-or-over/Percent

(http://i.postimg.cc/vm0r6YRm/Screen-Shot-2021-10-12-at-18-07-34.png)

This shows that most that die in significant numbers of covid are in the 50+ age group in both countries.  Therefore, adjusting raw numbers for population should be fairly accurate.

Percentage of population over 50 in US 34%
Percentage of population over 50 in Italy 46%

So, effectively Italy has a proportionately larger population of older folks over 50, the group that experiences the most deaths.


Quote
Picking Apples and oranges, apples and oranges, BC likes to go…

Seems you may need to re-evaluate your position on this, as I have been adjusting numbers of deaths by multiplying by 5.5 to match US population.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 12, 2021, 10:17:01 AM
Yes, a blog that deals with issues in the logistics and supply chain sector, industries I have been involved in for over 30 years.  You point to a single cause, I point to a chain of events.

Again, in case it didn't register *in addition* is NOT the same as *because of*. Nothing that's happening in the US today have ZIP, ZERO, NADA to do with the 6-day blockage of Suez Canal. Moreover, a 'blog' is not 'news'.

Quit digging.

Quote
And how is that any different?  People died due to lack of healthcare resources. I have seen no reports of such since vaccinations began in Italy.

When two folks are infected by the same virus, and one is carted off in a darkened room and left to die because they were ill-prepared and only have one (1) equipment to sustain life, that baby is 'barbaric'. Like I said, in NY, they brought in a ship and outfitted ground hospitals to accommodate emergency treatment facilities. When they needed ventilators, ka-ching! thousands flooded the nation, etc...

When it happened it Italy, oooppss..to their credit they did asked the EU for help, LMAO! Remember that? Of course you do...

Nice try.

Quote
Roughly one tenth for those that have been vaccinated vs unvaccinated.  Is that not 'highly preventable"?

Natural immunity is a MUCH MORE stronger means of further protection, which it appears (if the estimates are correct that 80% of infected were/are asymptomatic -plus- add in the symptomatic cases that survived at rate of +98%), literally, the population is roughly at the 100% 'protected' state if you added the 67% they estimated to be fully vaccinated.

I know these are too many numbers flying around for you, BC. Pop a brew, look over the horizon, clear the mind, and let that come to you.

Quote
Describe what you see.

The frame is still there in the post. I haven't removed it.

Quote
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm)
http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/if-youve-had-covid-do-you-need-the-vaccine.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/if-youve-had-covid-do-you-need-the-vaccine.html)


Makes mores sense.

So he Googles again.

CDC, LMAO! of all places. I thought you said you watched Dr. Campbell's video above? You don't say.

BC, wallow in your silly fake news, OK?

Quote
Proportionate to population, Italy has 19% more over 60's than the US.  That is a significant difference.

(http://i.postimg.cc/RVc3fs7J/Screen-Shot-2021-10-12-at-17-37-38.png)
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Age-distribution/Population-aged-60-or-over/Percent (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Age-distribution/Population-aged-60-or-over/Percent)

(http://i.postimg.cc/vm0r6YRm/Screen-Shot-2021-10-12-at-18-07-34.png)

This shows that most that die in significant numbers of covid are in the 50+ age group in both countries.  Therefore, adjusting raw numbers for population should be fairly accurate.

Percentage of population over 50 in US 34%
Percentage of population over 50 in Italy 46%

So, effectively Italy has a proportionately larger population of older folks over 50, the group that experiences the most deaths.

Listen, you just proved you have serious reading comprehension issues. You went through all that gyration needlessly. I realize you were so careful making sure to insert 'percentages' in your silly riposte, but it still came out silly.

I don't need calculators, nor do I need to Google, but I would hazard a guess that with the US's population in excess of 300 million, American old farts would likely number at, around, maybe even more than the TOTAL population of Italy.

Dude, this is grade school level and you're struggling. Stop digging.

Quote
Seems you may need to re-evaluate your position on this, as I have been adjusting numbers of deaths by multiplying by 5.5 to match US population.



OY!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 12, 2021, 03:10:50 PM
Again, in case it didn't register *in addition* is NOT the same as *because of*. Nothing that's happening in the US today have ZIP, ZERO, NADA to do with the 6-day blockage of Suez Canal. Moreover, a 'blog' is not 'news'.

Quit digging.

As we both are expressing opinions, we'll just have to agree to disagree regarding the Suez incident being a contributing factor.  Blog, youtube, or news websites, all are sources of information.

Quote
When two folks are infected by the same virus, and one is carted off in a darkened room and left to die because they were ill-prepared and only have one (1) equipment to sustain life, that baby is 'barbaric'. Like I said, in NY, they brought in a ship and outfitted ground hospitals to accommodate emergency treatment facilities. When they needed ventilators, ka-ching! thousands flooded the nation, etc...

When it happened it Italy, oooppss..to their credit they did asked the EU for help, LMAO! Remember that? Of course you do...

Nice try.

Fact remains that high hospitalization and ICU levels required crisis level triage, rationing and unnecessary deaths.  Italy also set up additional facilities and ICU wards.  My point is that the US, at this point, with solutions at hand should not be experiencing such.

Quote
Natural immunity is a MUCH MORE stronger means of further protection, which it appears (if the estimates are correct that 80% of infected were/are asymptomatic -plus- add in the symptomatic cases that survived at rate of +98%), literally, the population is roughly at the 100% 'protected' state if you added the 67% they estimated to be fully vaccinated.

I know these are too many numbers flying around for you, BC. Pop a brew, look over the horizon, clear the mind, and let that come to you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/if-youve-had-covid-do-you-need-the-vaccine.html

Quote
The frame is still there in the post. I haven't removed it.

Yet you still have not stated your point clearly regarding worldometer info.

So he Googles again.

Quote
CDC, LMAO! of all places. I thought you said you watched Dr. Campbell's video above? You don't say.

BC, wallow in your silly fake news, OK?

Again, I found nothing Dr Campbell stated was incongruent with what I believe is happening.  Maybe you read too much into his assessment?

Quote
Listen, you just proved you have serious reading comprehension issues. You went through all that gyration needlessly. I realize you were so careful making sure to insert 'percentages' in your silly riposte, but it still came out silly.

I don't need calculators, nor do I need to Google, but I would hazard a guess that with the US's population in excess of 300 million, American old farts would likely number at, around, maybe even more than the TOTAL population of Italy.

Dude, this is grade school level and you're struggling. Stop digging.

No digging, no struggle, just exploring facts and numbers at hand.  Unless someone here has a better grasp of statistics and can show where I have misinterpreted or misused the data, I'll stand by my calculations.  I laid it out pretty clearly, in a manner that just about anyone can follow along.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 12, 2021, 04:26:40 PM
As we both are expressing opinions, we'll just have to agree to disagree regarding the Suez incident being a contributing factor.  Blog, youtube, or news websites, all are sources of information.

I didn't express an *opinion*. I cited two reports citing direct cause/s of the problem. Neither cited the Suez canal blockage as a 'contributing' factor. ZIP, NADA, ZERO...

Quote
Fact remains that high hospitalization and ICU levels required crisis level triage, rationing and unnecessary deaths.  Italy also set up additional facilities and ICU wards.  My point is that the US, at this point, with solutions at hand should not be experiencing such.

The US is doing fine. Despite its 88% metabolically unhealthy adults and sustaining a 0.22% mortality rate, with variants, isn't exactly doomsday. You spend way too much only on one extreme and fails to look at this broadly.


Quote
http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/if-youve-had-covid-do-you-need-the-vaccine.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/if-youve-had-covid-do-you-need-the-vaccine.html)

'Experts', LMAO. I'll stick to science, as CLEARLY explained in Dr. Campbell's video.

Quote
Yet you still have not stated your point clearly regarding worldometer info.

Then go back and read it again.

Quote
So he Googles again.

Your posts are drenched with Googled info, BC.

Quote
Again, I found nothing Dr Campbell stated was incongruent with what I believe is happening.  Maybe you read too much into his assessment?

Then you either didn't watch it, or understood it. I admit he was VERY CAREFUL to make sure he didn't came out saying he has no idea how CDC came out with their valuation when proven data and science are suggesting otherwise.

Quote
No digging, no struggle, just exploring facts and numbers at hand.  Unless someone here has a better grasp of statistics and can show where I have misinterpreted or misused the data, I'll stand by my calculations.  I laid it out pretty clearly, in a manner that just about anyone can follow along.

Fine by me. I'm sure anyone can easily understand what 'sheer numbers' mean. OK, maybe not 'anyone'...  :P
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 13, 2021, 01:48:50 AM
Ukraine is going sky high on infections and deaths, 471 deaths for yesterday's total and over 16,000 infections, no pingdemic there:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-reports-second-highest-daily-covid-19-related-deaths-since-pandemic-2021-10-13/
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 13, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
LMAO! I just hope Israelis are a very patient bunch! They are now being told you are not considered 'fully vaccinated' unless they receive a booster shot!

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/world/israel-covid-booster.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/world/israel-covid-booster.html)

The 'good thing' about what they're doing in Israel is, they are at least recognizing science by inclusivity of  post-COVID infection an acceptable part of their 'green pass'.

But these 'passes' are all only good for 6 months! What happens after? Boosters sequels? 10, 15, 20 times, the rest of their sheepish lives?

Which brings to task, if the vaccine's effectiveness wanes significantly after 6 months, and you didn't subscribe to the booster shots (ka-ching!) - what state will you be in? I-dah-ho (lol)?

 :o
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 14, 2021, 02:49:06 AM
LMAO! I just hope Israelis are a very patient bunch! They are now being told you are not considered 'fully vaccinated' unless they receive a booster shot!

The 'good thing' about what they're doing in Israel is, they are at least recognizing science by inclusivity of  post-COVID infection an acceptable part of their 'green pass'.

But these 'passes' are all only good for 6 months! What happens after? Boosters sequels? 10, 15, 20 times, the rest of their sheepish lives?

Ditto in most places that have green passes like EU.  6 months for prior infection, 9 months after last shot.  As the science evolves, the expiration dates can be easily changed as the green passes are electronic. 

Quote
Which brings to task, if the vaccine's effectiveness wanes significantly after 6 months, and you didn't subscribe to the booster shots (ka-ching!) - what state will you be in? I-dah-ho (lol)?

 :o

Here in Italy, boosters will be given only to those with compromised immune systems, pre existing medical conditions that makes one more vulnerable, and over 60 years old.  Those that had COVID prior only get one dose when their 6 months are up.  This one dose regime due to the variability of natural antigens mentioned in the NYT article I posted in my prior post.  Seems those that had light cases of covid, or asymptomatic may not be as protected as those that had more severe cases with symptoms like yourself.  Unfortunately tracking all that and individual testing is much more complex than simply getting one dose of the vaccine. This is one of the points Dr Campbell brought up in his video.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 14, 2021, 10:07:48 AM
What an illuminating morning! Indeed, we (in the US) is living a very interestingly fractured time. So when Joe Rogan hosted CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta in his overly popular 'The Joe Rogan Experience' podcast, it was definitely engaging to hear two currently opposite sides of the discussion of vaccines, therapeutic treatments, anti-vaccine sentiment, etc...


Breaking Point issued a special cut-out broadcast of their show this morning due to their reaction in the podcast segment concerning Ivermectin, CNN, Joe Rogan and Dr, Gupta, LMAO! CNN, the fake news king that it is, was threatened with a lawsuit by Joe Rogan when it tried to lie and villified Joe Rogan's use of ivermectin when he was stricken with COVID, exaggeratingly citing Joe was using veterinarian prescription of Ivermectin. To add insult to injury, they not only lied about that to make their point, CNN mocked him in doing so. Breaking Point encapsulated that segment of the podcast. Here it is (Joe Rogan refused to skip to another subject as it was clear in the exchange how uncomfortable Dr. Sanjay Gupta was).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YIhSOL_23A[/c]

There was a segment in the podcast (3 hours long) where Dr. Gupta made a very valid point when he said points of discussions we (the public) have about the pandemic these days is skewed for one very simple reason. Opinions are very heavily slanted towards what currently floods the media. What we read, hear and listen to every single day! To which Joe Rogan added, which the good doctor agreed with, that the overwhelming news and reports feeding us everyday are presented by groups and the media that are *heavily funded by 'special interests' organizations*. Tens of millions are spent literally almost everyday to promote their narrative. Even when it demonize, ignore and bastardize current science knowledge and wisdom to intentionally shape general public opinion. This gives rise to the Dr. Campbell video above, and why he cited he didn't understand why the CDC came to their conclusion the way they did and have. Follow the money.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 14, 2021, 11:36:09 AM
Ditto in most places that have green passes like EU.  6 months for prior infection, 9 months after last shot.  As the science evolves, the expiration dates can be easily changed as the green passes are electronic. 

Here in Italy, boosters will be given only to those with compromised immune systems, pre existing medical conditions that makes one more vulnerable, and over 60 years old.  Those that had COVID prior only get one dose when their 6 months are up.  This one dose regime due to the variability of natural antigens mentioned in the NYT article I posted in my prior post.  Seems those that had light cases of covid, or asymptomatic may not be as protected as those that had more severe cases with symptoms like yourself.  Unfortunately tracking all that and individual testing is much more complex than simply getting one dose of the vaccine. This is one of the points Dr Campbell brought up in his video.


This piqued my interest a bit with you, BC. The bolded part of your post above is the second time you alluded to me having COVID as being 'severe'. The first time you did that, I actually addressed it and reminded you FWIW, it was for the most part wasn't anything close to being 'severe'. This is where I first mentioned getting infected with COVID:


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21622.msg558044#msg558044 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21622.msg558044#msg558044)


I have more than a few reasons to believe I'm a pretty healthy guy. I take care of myself and watch I eat and do. I know as a matter of fact I'm healthier than most, if not all, of my associates. It's because of this, I am VERY AWARE what happens with, and within, my body. During the short period I had COVID, I really do find it very interesting to *consciously* monitor how my body was battling the virus. Maybe in my attempt to 'detail' it gave you the impression I was suffering and was severely broken down - maybe - and why it seemed stuck in your perspective. I even went to work everyday!!!

I have another thought about this. I believe which likely explains the broader public views about these discussions around COVID, is the you have this block that prevents you from hearing, or listening to, anything 'other than' that which further favor and support your beliefs about what's right from wrong about this pandemic. So with you, it's an automatic over-drive to paint a gloomy picture of anything or anyone who happens to be on the other side of the pandemic. I think this is the root of many of the discourse, mis and dis-information that's drowning us all. The pervasive denial that facts and/or opinions that happen to differ from driven narrative - rightly or wrongly, factual or otherwise - have no space to be expressed in our society today.


I liken this, and your personal reaction/perception, to what we now know and refer to as 'Semmelweis Reflex'. I don't know if you know him (dr. Ignaz Semmelweis) or not, but the term was borne out of the mid-19th century reaction to Ignaz Semmelweis by the then-scientific community who concluded and defamed him as insane, and ultimately subscribed him to an asylum where he was beaten and died of his injury. All he really did was studied and researched why the maternity ward was suffering high mortality rate of mothers during child birth. He mandated that doctors sanitize their hands before assisting child birth, which actually had a very profound positive effect once it was implemented. Mortality rate dropped dramatically overnight soon after.


But for some strange reason, the ruling academia debunked this finding simply because they felt Ignaz didn't have enough proofs and research papers in support of his 'theory' - DESPITE the undeniable result! So they took away the silly rule, and next thing you know...mothers started dying again in huge numbers. Good true story. Read it. 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 14, 2021, 04:16:56 PM

This piqued my interest a bit with you, BC. The bolded part of your post above is the second time you alluded to me having COVID as being 'severe'. The first time you did that, I actually addressed it and reminded you FWIW, it was for the most part wasn't anything close to being 'severe'. This is where I first mentioned getting infected with COVID:


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21622.msg558044#msg558044 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21622.msg558044#msg558044)


I have more than a few reasons to believe I'm a pretty healthy guy. I take care of myself and watch I eat and do. I know as a matter of fact I'm healthier than most, if not all, of my associates. It's because of this, I am VERY AWARE what happens with, and within, my body. During the short period I had COVID, I really do find it very interesting to *consciously* monitor how my body was battling the virus. Maybe in my attempt to 'detail' it gave you the impression I was suffering and was severely broken down - maybe - and why it seemed stuck in your perspective. I even went to work everyday!!!

GQ,

My statement was:

Quote
Seems those that had light cases of covid, or asymptomatic may not be as protected as those that had more severe cases with symptoms like yourself.

Maybe you are reading too much into my statement.  Based on the description you gave of your symptoms, I assume we can agree they were more severe than asymptomatic or light cases.

Holy crap! This thing, so far, had been the nastiest experience being sick I ever went through - so far.

Quote
With the exception of the first day and a half, no coughing. I’m thankful for that too as coughing felt like you had a bag of broken, shard glasses for lungs every time you cough. That was freaky!

Quote
The only pronounced COVID symptoms I have is the mind-blowing state of fatigue. This is so intense it’s even difficult just to turnover laying on your bed. If you stood up you’re in a state of disorientation. I now have a better understanding how folks with compromised health condition cannot cope with this virus. Old people too. No way they’ll have the fortitude to battle with through it. Too damned consuming. This is next level, man.

Quote
Feverish state. I get chills followed by episodes for warming body temperature. I keep turning our thermostat to hot and cold depending how body is responding. You can really the battle going on within.

Quote
I feel like grandpa - crazy tired.
[/quote]

=======================

In prior posts I also mentioned a really, really bad case of flu type symtoms in late 2019 which were remarkably similar.  I tested for antibodies over six months later and the test did not find any or the test was not sensitive enough.  Maybe they weren't there anymore, who knows.  It is now known that COVID was circulating in Italy back in September 2019.  In any case, I suspect your state of health is probably better than mine.  Doesn't really mean much in the end, except to highlight that your experience with COVID was anything but asymptomatic or what I would describe as 'light', such as a nasty cough alone.

Quote
I have another thought about this. I believe which likely explains the broader public views about these discussions around COVID, is the you have this block that prevents you from hearing, or listening to, anything 'other than' that which further favor and support your beliefs about what's right from wrong about this pandemic. So with you, it's an automatic over-drive to paint a gloomy picture of anything or anyone who happens to be on the other side of the pandemic. I think this is the root of many of the discourse, mis and dis-information that's drowning us all. The pervasive denial that facts and/or opinions that happen to differ from driven narrative - rightly or wrongly, factual or otherwise - have no space to be expressed in our society today.

I liken this, and your personal reaction/perception, to what we now know and refer to as 'Semmelweis Reflex'. I don't know if you know him (dr. Ignaz Semmelweis) or not, but the term was borne out of the mid-19th century reaction to Ignaz Semmelweis by the then-scientific community who concluded and defamed him as insane, and ultimately subscribed him to an asylum where he was beaten and died of his injury. All he really did was studied and researched why the maternity ward was suffering high mortality rate of mothers during child birth. He mandated that doctors sanitize their hands before assisting child birth, which actually had a very profound positive effect once it was implemented. Mortality rate dropped dramatically overnight soon after.

But for some strange reason, the ruling academia debunked this finding simply because they felt Ignaz didn't have enough proofs and research papers in support of his 'theory' - DESPITE the undeniable result! So they took away the silly rule, and next thing you know...mothers started dying again in huge numbers. Good true story. Read it.

Really, I don't believe we disagree that awful much, with the exception of how I use numbers to compare Italy with the US, along with my observations how each country is handling the crisis, differing approaches regarding mitigation and vaccination.  You also posted a helpful video for which I had few, if any objections, but didn't see what you saw.

The remainder of your post seems to be efforts to attack the messenger and not really discourse on our different ways of looking at the same coin.  As you are expressing your opinion, I don't take much mind and try to stick to a more logical and pragmatic approach when discussing 'intense' topics.  You do bring up some good points that make me think a bit, and that's what I enjoy vs others like BillyB.

All-in-all, we differ with our interpretations, but overall, probably not that awful much.  Maybe pick one of the most egregious differences (in your view) we have on this covid topic and let's review it, without all the distractions.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 14, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
GQ,

My statement was:

Maybe you are reading too much into my statement.  Based on the description you gave of your symptoms, I assume we can agree they were more severe than asymptomatic or light cases.


Speaking of reading too much...how else does one *detail* the sensation other than posting a disclaimer at the end that said: Warning the above information doesn't mean I am severely sick"

One of the common feeling of anyone who experience COVID is the intense feeling of fatigue, and fever in some degree.
 Again, the first time you mentioned this, I addressed it - yet here it comes again. That was my point. You stuck with your perception despite.

Quote
Really, I don't believe we disagree that awful much, with the exception of how I use numbers to compare Italy with the US, along with my observations how each country is handling the crisis, differing approaches regarding mitigation and vaccination.  You also posted a helpful video for which I had few, if any objections, but didn't see what you saw.

The remainder of your post seems to be efforts to attack the messenger and not really discourse on our different ways of looking at the same coin.  As you are expressing your opinion, I don't take much mind and try to stick to a more logical and pragmatic approach when discussing 'intense' topics.  You do bring up some good points that make me think a bit, and that's what I enjoy vs others like BillyB.

All-in-all, we differ with our interpretations, but overall, probably not that awful much.  Maybe pick one of the most egregious differences (in your view) we have on this covid topic and let's review it, without all the distractions.


We're a bridge apart, but it doesn't mean it can't be crossed. How far and how long it'll take to cross, I do not know. You and I are not unique in this position. Maybe our own political persuasion and ideals have a huge influence in what and how we digest events these days. At times at the expense of science. The current overall state of discourse by all Americans these days is just so tiring.


Current accounting of deaths in the US by age:
http://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ (http://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/)

Current accounting of vaccination in the US:
http://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Age-Group-/gxj9-t96f (http://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Age-Group-/gxj9-t96f)

Over 94% of deaths were those with at least 2 comorbidities. I understand and support at-risk folks to get vaccinated if they wish to seek protection.

What I don't understand, and reject, why is there such a thing as vaccination mandate/passport, and forces ALL age range who suffer far less than a percentage point of hospitalization and dying, especially the post-infected ones, to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on October 15, 2021, 05:37:49 AM

What I don't understand, and reject, why is there such a thing as vaccination mandate/passport, and forces ALL age range who suffer far less than a percentage point of hospitalization and dying, especially the post-infected ones, to get vaccinated.

Because there is and always has been a different motive for the jab. Big Pharma doesn't give one shit whether you live or die. Forget the fact that one's chances of dying are greater from receiving the jab than it is from covid itself and pretty much the same as dying from the flu. No matter the comorbidities, many, few or none, many folks bodies simply reject the substances in the injection. It is not a vaccine. That is a lie that no matter how many times it's repeated, it is still a lie.

To understand where and what the alternate motivation is one should look into graphene oxide and it's uses. The one common ingredient in all of the jabs that has no business in your body. The rush to 5G and maybe even pfizers latest patent. Dots must be connected. Folks like BC prefer Googles, CNN and Yahoo's interpretation rather than doing it themselves.

The covid plandemic is junk science. Fancy charts and mass media hysteria do not hide that from people actually willing to turn off the news and does not cover up that fact. There is a much more advance science for the uses of graphene than any of them are willing to admit
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 15, 2021, 09:44:11 AM
The prevailing science that I am aware of are:

1. Natural immunity (after infection) create at least 20 variation of antibodies (further protection for any mutation/variants), whereas the vaccine was created to fight only antigen and creates one spike protein. Hence, there's concerns about variants.

2. Vaccine efficacy (immunity) last far shorter than that of natural immunity. While they simply do not have the data to actually measure how long does the antibodies last with natural immunity, SARS -COVID 1 antibodies, they're finding out, is still evident today after 18 years.

3. UK studies showed that young boys between the ages of 12-15 (17?) are 4-6 times more likely to be diagnosed with myocarditis after vaccination than be hospitalized due to COVID - yet 86% of those affected required hospital care.

4. Front line workers are either quitting, or getting fired for refusing to get vaccinated. These front line workers are mostly naturally immunized, which as science tell you offer far more 'protection' than vaccinated folks - yet they're causing these precious workers, who are experienced in the care of patients to begin with, in losing their jobs and prevented to continue their services because of these silly mandates.

5. Look at the statistics I posted above. Why disrupt the labor force, and the greater population, that have a survivability rate in excess of 99.95%? Why vaccinate all of them? The concentrated fatalities (+87%) are from those in the 60+ year olds, whom for the most part are no longer in the labor force?

Anyway, I could go on with this, but why bother...
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: mhr7 on October 15, 2021, 02:44:23 PM
Big Pharma doesn't give one shit whether you live or die.

Of course they do. Drugs that kill or are ineffective don't make money do they?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 15, 2021, 11:34:09 PM

Speaking of reading too much...how else does one *detail* the sensation other than posting a disclaimer at the end that said: Warning the above information doesn't mean I am severely sick"

One of the common feeling of anyone who experience COVID is the intense feeling of fatigue, and fever in some degree.
 Again, the first time you mentioned this, I addressed it - yet here it comes again. That was my point. You stuck with your perception despite.

This, I believe is a bridge easily crossed.  Amend 'more severe' to 'worse'.

Quote
Based on the description you gave of your symptoms, I assume we can agree they were worse than asymptomatic or light cases.

Would that be agreeable?


Quote
We're a bridge apart, but it doesn't mean it can't be crossed. How far and how long it'll take to cross, I do not know. You and I are not unique in this position. Maybe our own political persuasion and ideals have a huge influence in what and how we digest events these days. At times at the expense of science. The current overall state of discourse by all Americans these days is just so tiring.

I view the politicization of virus mitigation, a disaster.  One of the most important aspects in the epidemic crisis manual we discussed long ago, is that government be able to formulate and communicate a common message to the public.  With the virus response government was, and still is 'all over the place', from 'It will go away, to millions may die.

http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/CERC_Crisis_Communication_Plans.pdf

The closest we got was Fauci, then Birx but there were quite a few other intervening parties as well.  Government needs to be able to come out with ONE distinct, clear message.  Sure, as the situation changes the message can adapt.  This obviously wasn't the case from the start, and yes even during the present administration.  A bit better maybe, but still with different parts of .gov saying different things.

Quote
Current accounting of deaths in the US by age:
http://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ (http://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/)

Current accounting of vaccination in the US:
http://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Age-Group-/gxj9-t96f (http://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Age-Group-/gxj9-t96f)

Over 94% of deaths were those with at least 2 comorbidities. I understand and support at-risk folks to get vaccinated if they wish to seek protection. [/quote]

There are many millions who may not even know of their comorbidities.  While being overweight should certainly be noticeable, others like diabetes, high blood pressure,  even cancer, liver or kidney disease.  Not to take this off-topic, but many still may be reticent to see a doctor in the first place due to the costs involved.

Quote
What I don't understand, and reject, why is there such a thing as vaccination mandate/passport, and forces ALL age range who suffer far less than a percentage point of hospitalization and dying, especially the post-infected ones, to get vaccinated.

That, of course, is a great question.  We weren't that successful in coming closer to a consensus by discussing all the components (vaccine, masking, greenpass etc) involved, so maybe lets try it the other way around, by looking at the results.

(http://i.postimg.cc/44qbM8Wd/Screen-Shot-2021-10-15-at-10-54-29-copy-2.jpg)

The vertical lines indicate the beginning of vaccinations in each country.  Note the dramatic difference with deaths and the Delta variant period indicated by horizontal lines.  How do we account for this difference?  Was it the mandated use of masks in the second country?  Was it because vaccinations of the most vulnerable and elderly were vaccinated first and then progressing by age downward in strict order?  Was it because of the green pass requirements that basically mandated folks to get vaccinated?

My personal view (yes, opinion) is that it was a combination of all three.  Other factors as well, such as centralized healthcare records allowing easy identification and notification of the vulnerable population.

I do get your point about the general health of the population.  The prevalence of diabetes, for example, is double that of the second country(5% vs 10%).  Obesity also (36% vs 20%).  This would lead one to think that the US would be more vulnerable, helping to account for the excess, but if so, why the markedly similar death curves in the pre-vaccination period with death rates that were even higher than in the US? 

Something obviously worked, and green passes were part of the mix, resulting in 81% of the eligible population today (over 12) being fully vaccinated and over 85% including those with at least one shot.  Although there are some protests in the second country as green pass mandates are increasing to include all employees, obviously, this represents only a tiny minority, especially with vaccinations running at 200,000 per day and a record number of green passes being issued daily, 230,000 on the 14th of October alone.

More detailed results:

(http://i.postimg.cc/C58N2ntP/Screen-Shot-2021-10-16-at-08-23-53.png)

Infections of unvaccinated folks peaked and is coming down, but do note that the number of infections among vaccinated folks is not going up in proportion and remains at a low rate.  The US 7 day average is 85000 infections per day, 6 times higher than the second country (population adjusted x 5.5) 13000. Ditto for 7 day average daily deaths.

(http://i.postimg.cc/7PpGPWGT/Screen-Shot-2021-10-16-at-08-38-41.png)

Deaths follow a similar path, albeit delayed.  Yes, the number of deaths among vaccinated folks rose somewhat, but nowhere near that of the unvaccinated, and is also going down.

If one wants to infer that citizens and residents of the second country are 'sheeple', then so be it IMO.  I'd trade a name for these numbers any day.

Your thoughts?
 

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 16, 2021, 01:44:03 AM
The prevailing science that I am aware of are:

1. Natural immunity (after infection) create at least 20 variation of antibodies (further protection for any mutation/variants), whereas the vaccine was created to fight only antigen and creates one spike protein. Hence, there's concerns about variants.

Indeed, reports are that natural immunity may well be better than vaccines, but achieving such natural immunity requires infection, which I believe we can agree is quite risky and has cost the lives of almost 750 thousand Americans so far and still counting.  Natural immunity is good, but it seems vaccination may be better and natural immunity plus vaccination even better than that.

Quote
This study found that among Kentucky residents who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, those who were unvaccinated against COVID-19 had significantly higher likelihood of reinfection during May and June 2021. This finding supports the CDC recommendation that all eligible persons be offered COVID-19 vaccination, regardless of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection status.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

Quote
2. Vaccine efficacy (immunity) last far shorter than that of natural immunity. While they simply do not have the data to actually measure how long does the antibodies last with natural immunity, SARS -COVID 1 antibodies, they're finding out, is still evident today after 18 years.

Being only 10 months in as far as vaccination goes, I would think we still have more information forthcoming in the months and even years ahead.

Quote
3. UK studies showed that young boys between the ages of 12-15 (17?) are 4-6 times more likely to be diagnosed with myocarditis after vaccination than be hospitalized due to COVID - yet 86% of those affected required hospital care.

Although myocarditis has been identified as a possible concern, there is ongoing debate.

Quote
Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.
This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

The rate after vaccination is reportedly not that far above the normal rate associated for the same gender/age group.  I'd say the jury is still out on this point, and again, only time and further study will tell.

Quote
4. Front line workers are either quitting, or getting fired for refusing to get vaccinated. These front line workers are mostly naturally immunized, which as science tell you offer far more 'protection' than vaccinated folks - yet they're causing these precious workers, who are experienced in the care of patients to begin with, in losing their jobs and prevented to continue their services because of these silly mandates.

We're talking about a small percentage of health workers or?

Example:

Quote
Presbyterian Hospital fired about 250 employees who refused to get vaccinated.  According Newsday, Northwell Health, New York’s biggest healthcare system, boasting 19 hospitals and over 77,000 employees, “fired about two dozen ‘unvaccinated leaders’—and that those numbers could grow—for not getting at least their first dose to help protect against the coronavirus.” 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/09/30/in-a-dramatic-turn-the-once-herald-nurses-and-healthcare-workers-are-being-fired-for-not-getting-their-vaccination-shots/

Quote
5. Look at the statistics I posted above. Why disrupt the labor force, and the greater population, that have a survivability rate in excess of 99.95%? Why vaccinate all of them? The concentrated fatalities (+87%) are from those in the 60+ year olds, whom for the most part are no longer in the labor force?

Again, all reports I've seen state very small numbers, nowhere near rates one could consider as very disruptive.

Quote
Anyway, I could go on with this, but why bother...

Because you provoke further thought and investigation which IMO is not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on October 16, 2021, 04:12:18 AM
Of course they do. Drugs that kill or are ineffective don't make money do they?

No they don't, hundreds of new customers are born every minute. There is a bigger motive at play here but your mental illness does not permit you to grasp it. It is beyond your comprehension
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 16, 2021, 10:27:02 AM
This, I believe is a bridge easily crossed.  Amend 'more severe' to 'worse'.

Would that be agreeable?


Reluctantly agree with asymptomatic cases ("they didn't even know they had it"). As for "light cases", if this means no hospitalization involved, no medication taken, was able to continue daily activity, then I submit to disagree that my case was 'worse' as those episodes are exactly what I went through with my experience.

Quote
I view the politicization of virus mitigation, a disaster.  One of the most important aspects in the epidemic crisis manual we discussed long ago, is that government be able to formulate and communicate a common message to the public.  With the virus response government was, and still is 'all over the place', from 'It will go away, to millions may die.

http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/CERC_Crisis_Communication_Plans.pdf (http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/CERC_Crisis_Communication_Plans.pdf)

The closest we got was Fauci, then Birx but there were quite a few other intervening parties as well.  Government needs to be able to come out with ONE distinct, clear message.  Sure, as the situation changes the message can adapt.  This obviously wasn't the case from the start, and yes even during the present administration. A bit better maybe, but still with different parts of .gov saying different things.


'Better' is arguable. Two senior scientists resigned immediately after a WH task force made a premature announcement void of any scientific and/or medical consultation.

Quote
Apples and oranges theory here..


in which you asked:


Quote
Your thoughts?

I haven't changed my stance regarding this theory of yours. Like the subject of CFR we discussed, far too many variables to consider to come to any absolution. Much like comparing a person's characters, health, behavior, etc...from another. It is highly subjective.

But, as I have explained my point before, the lone and consistent fact we can agree on is that this virus is far more lethal to persons with comorbidities, thus which, making the most vulnerable are in their advanced ages of any given population. I would hope there is no argument in that statement.

Having said that, we can evaluate the validity of that statement by looking at reported COVID deaths by age between say, USA/Italy, and you can easily see that concentrated death counts are mostly in the >55 age group. In addition, looking at world-o-meter report today, the US so far suffered 724,000 deaths, while Italy amassed 132,000 deaths. Take these two 'numbers' and extrapolate it according to 'population' differential ratio, which is 5.5; you can then easily determine how it validates what we so far know to be 'consistent' (no longer variable).

132,000 multiplied by differential ratio of 5.5 results in 726,000. Bigger sampling, results in greater frequency. Equivalency. Consistency. Near absolution, and I say 'near' simply because the US is more 'unhealthy' overall if compared to the overall health of an average Italian. The latter part would be another subject of discussion.


So, not sure how you deduced one is 'better' than the other?

Indeed, reports are that natural immunity may well be better than vaccines, but achieving such natural immunity requires infection, which I believe we can agree is quite risky and has cost the lives of almost 750 thousand Americans so far and still counting.  Natural immunity is good, but it seems vaccination may be better and natural immunity plus vaccination even better than that.

I disagree.

Firstly, I'm not advocating people get infected to acquire natural immunity. The bolded part is, IMO, sheer pro-vaccination BS.

1. It isn't news anymore to know that natural immunity post-COVID infection causes multiple antibodies compared to the vaccine lone spiked protein. While antibody creation isn't widely consistent for every individual, the range of 88-90% of those previously infected did in fact carried these antibodies. Dr. Campbell also reiterated in the video above that natural immunity causes the B-cell to hold a much longer term memory in the cells in case the body gets attacked by the virus, or a variation of it, in the future than that of the vaccine.

2. But the more compelling reason is, studies had already validated this, but prevailing pro-vaccination narrative refuses to discuss this broadly, validate pre-prints for reviews thus delay acceptance of filed clinical trials by multiple medical centers in the the world.

Quote
Specifically, of all infections during the study period, 99.3% occurred in participants who were not infected previously and remained unvaccinated. In contrast, only 0.7% of infections occurred in participants who were not previously infected but were currently vaccinated. Importantly, not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests (news-medical.net) (http://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-whoe28099ve-had-COVID-19-Findings-of-Cleveland-Clinic-study.aspx)

Quote
Conclusion: This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

http://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 (http://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1)

As for your citation in Kentucky:
Quote
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w)


Pay close attention to the disclaimer citing '5 limitations' in that study.

Quote
Being only 10 months in as far as vaccination goes, I would think we still have more information forthcoming in the months and even years ahead.

Although myocarditis has been identified as a possible concern, there is ongoing debate.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/ (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/)

The rate after vaccination is reportedly not that far above the normal rate associated for the same gender/age group.  I'd say the jury is still out on this point, and again, only time and further study will tell.


This is dubious at best, BC. I read the article you posted, and in it, it reported the citation was based on a researched myocarditis COVID-induced study in the US since the beginning of the pandemic. Yet if you click on the link, the article was about the UK, at least for what I can read since it blocked further reading without a subscription, and, point to be made, the study conducted in the US was for all ages (0-75+)

Moreover, even CDC didn't have an isolated study for the specific group we're talking about. CDC acknowledges there's 'reports' of heightened cases of post-vaccination myocarditis in boys between the age of 12-15, but didn't follow-up any concluding studies. Yet, they continue to mandate vaccination anyway. This even prompted this reaction. (http://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/second-opinions/93340)

But even if you (pro-vaccine of all ages advocates) dismissed all of these, let's look into what we can actually discern and know.

In the US, there had been 513 deaths from kids ages 0-17 (both sexes). By the time you extrapolate actual count, then isolate 'boys between the age 12-17', extracting any number you'd like to use for ages 0-11 and also 'girls' (513 divided by 17, multiplied by 5 (12-17), then extract half the net number (roughly equal number of sexes) - then divide this by the total number of reported cases (45 million); you're going to find a number finitely smaller against those numbers you threw as a counter argument of not getting vaccinated.

The point being made here is (as with the reactionary article I referred to), it makes absolutely NO SENSE why would  vaccination be mandatory across the board PERIOD especially if one considers we have no way of knowing what the potential long term effect of this vaccine. The fact is, based on a vivid information we can all see today - KIDS are literally invincible against this virus. Right behind them are people younger than 50.

Quote

We're talking about a small percentage of health workers or?

Example:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/09/30/in-a-dramatic-turn-the-once-herald-nurses-and-healthcare-workers-are-being-fired-for-not-getting-their-vaccination-shots/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/09/30/in-a-dramatic-turn-the-once-herald-nurses-and-healthcare-workers-are-being-fired-for-not-getting-their-vaccination-shots/)

Again, all reports I've seen state very small numbers, nowhere near rates one could consider as very disruptive.


You're being very selective, maybe even short-sighted.

In NY alone, its' been cited nearly 13,300 stands to get fired. Same in SoCal, where nearly a quarter (25%) of these workers stand to get fired. Project this in the entire country, then factoring in current conditions.

But this (health industry) isn't a lone case in the overall labor matter. It is mandated any private companies employing over 100 exercise the mandate. All government agencies - 100% enforcement.

Again, the vast majority of these labor forces belong to the very vast majority of people NOT vulnerable to this virus. How this mandate makes sense in disrupting our socio-economic productivity is more than a cause of alarm. Most especially in this current labor situation.

I will remind you, it was estimated that 80% of COVID cases were asymptomatic, given the total 'reported' cases in the US is at approx. 45 million - a number which represents 20% if their estimate is correct, this puts the US (by technicality) well within the 'herd immunity' concept. 67% vaccinated (221 million) + recovered 'asymptomatic' cases (225 million). Well over the 330 million. That means vaccine-immuned and naturally-immuned makes us a completely immune society. Maybe the word 'herd' is misleading considering the former group I mentioned above should actually be described as a 'flock'.
Whatever happened to all these science they've been throwing over us before? Follow the money?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on October 16, 2021, 11:15:27 AM

[/color]

You're being very selective, maybe even short-sighted.

In NY alone, its' been cited nearly 13,300 stands to get fired. Same in SoCal, where nearly a quarter (25%) of these workers stand to get fired. Project this in the entire country, then factoring in current conditions

My boy had an asymptomatic case already, yet he will be mandated to have the vaccination next school year I am being told.    Not delighted to hear this, would love not to comply, but may be forced to comply or he has to be educated at home, and he is much better off going to school.    Who the hell voted for this newsome character?  Where the hell is larry elder now? 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: mhr7 on October 16, 2021, 06:19:53 PM
No they don't, hundreds of new customers are born every minute. There is a bigger motive at play here but your mental illness does not permit you to grasp it. It is beyond your comprehension

Yep, once again I'm too stupid to understand conspiracy BS.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 17, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
My boy had an asymptomatic case already, yet he will be mandated to have the vaccination next school year I am being told.    Not delighted to hear this, would love not to comply, but may be forced to comply or he has to be educated at home, and he is much better off going to school.    Who the hell voted for this newsome character?  Where the hell is larry elder now? 

Fathertime!

If the vaccine is still regarded as emergency/experimental etc then, then I would say it's wrong on those grounds as surely it should be down to individual right not to have something that isn't fully passed all stages as would normally be the case. If bad effects did cone out in the future then they will have forced him to have taken an experimental vaccine that did him harm.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 17, 2021, 11:26:50 AM

Reluctantly agree

'Better' is arguable.

I haven't changed my stance

Having said that, we can evaluate 

I disagree.

Pay close attention

This is dubious at best

You're being very selective

I will remind you

GQ,

Kind thanks for your thoughts and the time you took to respond. I do appreciate it.

Even though we disagree on some, maybe many points, I do believe we at least understand where we each stand and have listened to each other in a respectful manner (which is often a big ask around here :)  As far as the facts go, we're still learning. Time will tell, maybe in ways, we both might be able to agree with. You correctly state that there are many variables.  We each form our opinions based on what we see happening, and yes, our individual biases also play a role.

In another week or so I'll review my post a while back with the calculations of post-vaccination deaths and see what has changed, if anything.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 18, 2021, 01:22:35 AM
UK infection rate remains stubbornly high meanwhile it has been suggested that it may be a result of a Delta Plus variant that may be more transmissible still than the Delta variant, both just as deadly:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-17/u-k-covid-case-load-prompts-gottlieb-call-for-urgent-research

Ukraine virus figures and deaths going down a bit but possibly due to weekend calculation or possibly not being fully calculated as it's pretty soon to dip down again but will have to see how that goes.

Still this virus seems to not be fully letting us out of its grasp, yet. How much of a long haul we might be in for on this one remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 18, 2021, 08:35:40 AM
RIP - fully vaccinated Colin Powell died at 84 of COVID complications...May he rest in peace. And may they stop calling these cases 'breakthrough cases' because they never were. Suppressed information doesn't mean they are not prevalent.


May everyone within the concentrated group of at-risk' set, exercise caution diligently. Don't believe the hype, if you have any of the listed medical condition/s, or any condition that have been proven to be one that causes death once contracting the virus, be very aware vaccination will not necessarily protect you.


Get and stay healthy. Take your proper prescribed medication according to your medical condition. Exercise. Observe proper nutrition. Mind your vitamin 'D' levels, take supplements if you need it (now not when you get sick). Eat food high in antioxidants (blueberries, etc..). 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 18, 2021, 10:38:56 AM

May everyone within the concentrated group of at-risk' set, exercise caution diligently. Don't believe the hype, if you have any of the listed medical condition/s, or any condition that have been proven to be one that causes death once contracting the virus, be very aware vaccination will not necessarily protect you.


Indeed. There have been prior studies of vaccines and multiple myeloma, indicating only 45% of those with this blood disease achieve adequate responses to the vaccines.  Diligence would include getting vaccinated, wearing masks where appropriate etc.

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41375-021-01354-7
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 18, 2021, 01:00:51 PM
RIP - fully vaccinated Colin Powell died at 84 of COVID complications...May he rest in peace. And may they stop calling these cases 'breakthrough cases' because they never were. Suppressed information doesn't mean they are not prevalent.

Apparently he had underlying health conditions, some sort of cancer that may have made him susceptible even though he was double vaccinated. Goes to show if this virus persists it will likely mean that many of us won't live as long into old age. Does give reason to ponder whether it was a conspiracy to cut down on the population of the planet particularly the old that can be seen as a burden to society by some, not me but in terms of bed filling but hanging on for years where back in the day they would not have so done.

More importantly I never really understood why they kept pronouncing Colin Powell as Co - lin, rather than Col - in. Surely a pronounciation error, I've only ever heard Colin pronounced Col - in before that.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on October 18, 2021, 03:38:15 PM
More importantly I never really understood why they kept pronouncing Colin Powell as Co - lin, rather than Col - in. Surely a pronunciation error, I've only ever heard Colin pronounced Col - in before that.

Because that is the pronunciation that Colin wanted.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 18, 2021, 04:55:30 PM
Because that is the pronunciation that Colin wanted.

Pretty sure Col - in was the only proper way to pronounce Colin.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on October 18, 2021, 06:02:44 PM
USA being a relatively free country . . . people are allowed to pronounce their name the way they want to, and insist that others pronounce it the same.

Co-lin Powell wanted it that way.

Others are silly though.  Footballer Brett Favre insisted on pronouncing his last name Farve.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 19, 2021, 05:28:43 AM
USA being a relatively free country . . . people are allowed to pronounce their name the way they want to, and insist that others pronounce it the same.

Co-lin Powell wanted it that way.

Others are silly though.  Footballer Brett Favre insisted on pronouncing his last name Farve.

Seems that they want to sound all a bit posher lol.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on October 19, 2021, 08:40:49 AM
Seems that they want to sound all a bit posher lol.

Nothing posh about Co-lin, since that's where poop passes through.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 20, 2021, 11:19:09 PM
Nothing posh about Co-lin, since that's where poop passes through.

Lol that's a good funny one ML :ROFL:
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 20, 2021, 11:22:41 PM
So virus infections and deaths up in both the UK and Ukraine. In Ukraine deaths have gone through the roof, over 500 for yesterday, so really quite shocking for a fairly small population:

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/19/world/europe/ukraine-covid-deaths.html
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 21, 2021, 01:50:02 AM

First vaccination in the US 14 December. 299,193 deaths prior. Yesterday 692,356 = 393,163 deaths since 14 December or 1191 per million.
First vaccination in Italy 27 December, but let's take 14 December for parity. 65,011 deaths prior. Yesterday 130,310=65,299 deaths since 14 December, or 1088 per million.

Now 103 per million difference might not sound like much, only 10%, but that number is growing rapidly with the much higher rate of daily deaths in the US, and theoretically represents over 6000 lives.  Let's check back on the numbers in a couple of weeks, or a month, and see what the numbers show.  Although not exact, with a head start for the US, we can see what happens in relative terms.

Basis, 60 million Italians, 330 million Americans.
Italy counts from http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni
US counts from http://www.patientcareonline.com/view/covid-19-update-us-and-global-cases-deaths-and-recoveries-as-of-december-14-2020



Above, my post from 20 September, a month ago.

Current figures from yesterday:

First vaccination in the US 14 December. 299,193 deaths prior. Yesterday 751,811 = 452,618 deaths since 14 December or 1372 per million.
First vaccination in Italy 27 December, but let's take 14 December for parity. 65,011 deaths prior. Yesterday 131,688=66,677 deaths since 14 December, or 1111 per million.

In one month, for the US 1191 deaths per million to 1372, a 261 per million increase.
In one month, for Italy 1088 deaths per million to 1111, a 23 per million increase.

Last month the difference was 103 per million, now that has grown to 238 per million in one month alone, and is still on the rise, representing a difference of 44,550 US lives during the same month period using population-adjusted figures.

Obviously, there is a great disparity in the post-vaccination period.

Is this difference due to vaccination percentages?

(http://i.postimg.cc/3rpgj6tz/Screen-Shot-2021-10-21-at-10-43-20.png)
http://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

(http://i.postimg.cc/cLGkMw7B/Screen-Shot-2021-10-21-at-10-45-33.png)
http://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/

Is it due to vaccination mandates?

Is it due to mask mandates?

Is it due to green pass requirements?

Is it due to differences in the general health of the population as some have suggested?

Is it a combination of the above?

Guess it's best to decide for yourselves, but don't ignore the rapidly growing differences.




Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 21, 2021, 12:16:39 PM
Apparently there queuing now in Kiev for the vaccine:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-new-daily-coronavirus-cases-deaths-hit-record-2021-10-21/

Looks like the recent sharp increase in infections and deaths is now causing a bit of a panic out there.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 23, 2021, 01:56:45 AM
640 deaths in Ukraine today and over 24,000 infections today for yesterday's figures. The scale of the virus problem is going up rapidly out there and who knows where it will all end.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on October 23, 2021, 04:55:34 AM
640 deaths in Ukraine today and over 24,000 infections today for yesterday's figures. The scale of the virus problem is going up rapidly out there and who knows where it will all end.

Trench as with most topics you're just too thick to "get it". Where are the bodies? How does the actual deaths in Ukraine or anywhere else compare to a year ago or 3  years ago. Everywhere there is jab hesitation in the population, deaths and new infections magically rise to astronomical numbers. You as well as much of the population has been gaslighted by the mainstream media to a complete slumber. Clue; There is a plan and they are lying to you. You eat it up like a duck on a Junebug never questioning anything fed to you by the media yet, you question everything about FSUW including breath and odor of flatulence. You really should attempt to use your head for something other than holding your hat and masturbation material
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 23, 2021, 05:38:07 AM
Trench as with most topics you're just too thick to "get it". Where are the bodies? How does the actual deaths in Ukraine or anywhere else compare to a year ago or 3  years ago. Everywhere there is jab hesitation in the population, deaths and new infections magically rise to astronomical numbers. You as well as much of the population has been gaslighted by the mainstream media to a complete slumber. Clue; There is a plan and they are lying to you. You eat it up like a duck on a Junebug never questioning anything fed to you by the media yet, you question everything about FSUW including breath and odor of flatulence. You really should attempt to use your head for something other than holding your hat and masturbation material

Lol, you Americans with your conspiracy theories, you go crazy on it. You think they are making it up? That there isn't a rising body count? I'm pretty certain they would have been rumbled by now if they were from Nurses and Doctors working in the hospitals to people working in the Morgue to Porters, Cleaners, Ambulance Paramedics and the like. If you  think it is all one great conspiracy why not go down your local hospital or even one in Ukraine and see if it bears out? Go into the Covid wards, Morgue, etc Sure you will likely get arrested, thrown out, irrate looks & words but you will see fir yourself. Of course you will likely get the virus but in your mind it's all a great conspiracy that doesn't exist so no real danger to you is there?

I know of people that have passed away from the virus and also some that have caught the virus and eventually survived. Believe me they are not the sort to bs about anything like that, given the chance they would be more than likely to expose anything like that. The virus is real, governments around the world wouldn't be junking their economies to fight the virus if it wasn't, time to wake up FP.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on October 23, 2021, 08:02:19 AM
640 deaths in Ukraine today and over 24,000 infections today for yesterday's figures. The scale of the virus problem is going up rapidly out there and who knows where it will all end.
So what.
The UK is also seeing a rising infection and death rate
Latest figures: 49298 positive cases
Deaths : 180 (+15.8%)
And that’s with a high vaccination rate amongst +12 yr olds.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on October 23, 2021, 02:26:41 PM
COVID deaths are very high in Ukraine.  I know this from people living there.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on October 23, 2021, 04:36:09 PM

COVID deaths are very high in Ukraine.  I know this from people living there.

According to a Stratfor article (http://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/ukraine-country-hits-new-daily-record-covid-19-cases-deaths) posted October 21, 2021, the numbers in Ukraine are bad.

Quote
Ukraine: Country Hits New Daily Record for COVID-19 Cases, Deaths

What Happened: Ukraine has hit a new daily record for COVID-19 infections and deaths, with 22,415 new cases reported over the past 24 hours (exceeding the previous high of 20,341 on April 3), along with 546 new deaths (exceeding the previous high of 538 on Oct. 19), Reuters reported Oct. 21, citing health ministry data.

If you register with Stratfor, you can read three articles per month. Then you can click on the prior link to read this article in its entirety. It's short article that mentions that only 15 percent of the population is vaccinated.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on October 25, 2021, 11:05:37 AM
This Democrat lapdog that he is, Anthony Fauci not only blatantly lied to Congress in multiple occasions, alleging Sen. Rand Paul doesn't know what he's talking about, and most important of all - likely bears responsibility for the millions of people who died in this pandemic the world over. This liberal idiot needs to be thrown in jail, and be subjected to the same heinous experiment he had led upon these animals.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-risky-virus-research-in-wuhan (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-risky-virus-research-in-wuhan)


Not only that, he is also in front of Congress for this heinous experiments.

http://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/578086-bipartisan-legislators-demand-answers-from-fauci (http://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/578086-bipartisan-legislators-demand-answers-from-fauci)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 25, 2021, 04:17:59 PM
COVID deaths are very high in Ukraine.  I know this from people living there.

It's reckoned that it's due to the more transmissible Delta variant that is now hitting there. Odds are it could get even worse when the Delta Plus variant hits which is apparently even more transmissible than the Delta variant. It's not looking good for the poor people of Ukraine unfortunately, looks like they're going to have to ride this one out like India did, assuming India's official virus figures are correct of course. They probably could well be as apparently India has administered 1billion first doses of the vaccine to its 1.38 billion population. That's an incredible vaccination campaign so I guess the difference is at the moment not a lot of Ukrainians are vaccinated.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Grumpy on October 30, 2021, 09:21:57 AM
Authorities in annexed Crimea said they plan to purchase mobile refrigerators to store bodies in the city of Simferopol as Covid-19 deaths continue to rise and the city's morgues are overwhelmed.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/29/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-oct-29-a69117

Vaccination rates in Russia(20%) and Ukraine(16%) are very low.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on October 30, 2021, 09:53:54 AM
Heard interesting commentary from a retired police chief or retired police commissioner.

Regarding the high number of policemen who are refusing to get vaccinated in some major cities.

He told how, if the same number of police in a city were dying in gun battles as are dying from Covid, the police and their unions would be screaming like hell.

But they are OK with the Covid deaths.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 30, 2021, 05:37:09 PM
Authorities in annexed Crimea said they plan to purchase mobile refrigerators to store bodies in the city of Simferopol as Covid-19 deaths continue to rise and the city's morgues are overwhelmed.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/29/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-oct-29-a69117

Vaccination rates in Russia(20%) and Ukraine(16%) are very low.

Thanks for the info Grumpy, it looks like Russia and Ukraine are getting themselves into one hell of a state from the virus. Looking like all the objection to having vaccine is finally coming home and the outcome is not a pretty one.

In Ukraine infections are going sky high towards 30,000 plus a day with 6-700 or so deaths for the past few days alone so truely shocking there. Guessing it'll take them a while to get the vaccine around do it's likely to get worse before that happens I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 31, 2021, 04:27:09 AM
I'm not sure someone from Bulgaria should be telling the UK people what they should be doing regarding Covid-19.


UK Covid-19 deaths per 1 million of population is 2,056.


Bulgaria Covid-19 deaths per 1 million of population is 3,477...a shocking figure which is the third highest in the World.


Maybe you should be directing your advice at the Bulgarian Government.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 31, 2021, 06:12:42 AM

I personally see not wearing masks inside buildings as a mistake and I think that is coming to light off recent, some people have a real beef over it though or at least they did.

So yes while the infection rate is high and possibly being kept high either by not wearing masks or the new Delta Plus variant or both hospitalisations and deaths are much lower in proportion due to a fast and successful vaccination program. They didn't quite follow up with the younger age groups after the 31st July in my opinion but it's all getting done now.

Ukraine is in the sh*t though in my opinion (possibly Russia also). It will take them weeks to vaccinate at the quickest possibly even months and by that time the virus will have wreaked havoc if not in lives then on the economy due to a prolonged lockdown. I'm not sure what state they are going to be in after it all.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on October 31, 2021, 12:01:16 PM

So yes while the infection rate is high and possibly being kept high either by not wearing masks or the new Delta Plus variant or both hospitalisations and deaths are much lower in proportion due to a fast and successful vaccination program. They didn't quite follow up with the younger age groups after the 31st July in my opinion but it's all getting done now.

Still, deaths are 4-5 times higher than in Italy using a 7 day average, growing in number rather than declining.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 31, 2021, 12:16:25 PM
Still, deaths are 4-5 times higher than in Italy using a 7 day average, growing in number rather than declining.

Infections are currently on the up in Italy:

http://www.thelocal.it/20211028/italys-covid-infections-almost-double-in-a-week-as-vaccine-rate-falls-again/

It may take a few more weeks for it to really rise high but it could well do, very likely even. Odd are the Delta Plus variant hasn't taken hold in Italy but is doing so just now, with that of course the usual.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on November 01, 2021, 03:35:42 AM
Infections are currently on the up in Italy:

http://www.thelocal.it/20211028/italys-covid-infections-almost-double-in-a-week-as-vaccine-rate-falls-again/

It may take a few more weeks for it to really rise high but it could well do, very likely even. Odd are the Delta Plus variant hasn't taken hold in Italy but is doing so just now, with that of course the usual.

It has been established that the delta variant is predominant in Italy since at least summer, now probably close to 100%

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/covid-19-delta-variant-gains-prevalence-italy-almost-95-health-institute-2021-07-30/

The number of tests has increased, detecting more infected.  At least some of this is due to additional testing needed to maintain a green pass.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2021, 12:29:08 PM
It has been established that the delta variant is predominant in Italy since at least summer, now probably close to 100%

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/covid-19-delta-variant-gains-prevalence-italy-almost-95-health-institute-2021-07-30/

The number of tests has increased, detecting more infected.  At least some of this is due to additional testing needed to maintain a green pass.

There's a difference between the Delta variant and the Delta Plus variant. The Delta Plus variant is a mutation of the Delta variant and thought off as even more transmissible. It's looking like that is what is keeping infection rates up in the UK. There have been cases of it in other countries, Portugal was one so it will only be a matter of time before it replaces Delta as the dominant strain elsewhere in Europe most likely.

Whether that will be it or whether we will get more increasingly infectious strains but still as deadly who knows. I'm not sure how much worse it could get so let's hope this is the worst of it over with.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 02, 2021, 01:52:11 AM
Just typing into Google 'Total World Population' 7.753 billion people apparently. The graph it shows is truely astonishing, it's generally a continuous upward climb (probably averaged out but all the same). If you look at how much the world's population has grown since the 1980's it's quite shocking, perhaps nearly doubled. Main thing is if you consider that had the virus not come about that the population increase would continue at anywhere near the pace it had been and I would guess the planet would really start to be in some trouble, global food shortages, environmental devastation caused, resources being used up, etc. Then add on to that so many jobs being lost to robotics and that could cause job problems too.

So while I'm not real big on conspiracy theories without adequate proof such an outlook makes you wonder if this virus was devised on purpose. It looks clear to me that we were headed to way too much population globally. The virus as bad as it is could be seen as the least worse way of avoiding more painful even violent outcomes.

To date 5 million have past away globally from the virus, apparently 1 percent of the world's population is 78 million so 0.1 percent would be 7.8 million. So I'm guessing we have lost about 0.08 million of the world's population headed towards 0.1 million. Though of course babies would have been born in that time so global population loss will probably be less than 0.08 million maybe guessing 0.05 million. Aside from that of course is population loss by other means.

Possibly the vaccine may slow the death rate globally in most countries by next year. My guess is that it won't be going away for a fair while and that it will continue to ebb away at global population possibly at a slower pace.

I remember just before the start of 2020 and knowledge of the virus became public that two global catastrophies were being talked about as definite by the end of this decade if drastic action was not taken. One was climate change with the world getting way too hot in some places for people to survive like in California and difficult in other places. The other was global population growth not just adding to climate change problem but becoming way to large for the planet to support. No real solution seemed evident to either to reverse those two catastrophies. One could do only see more talk of change needed at environment summits like COP26 with little happening to make any real difference. To a large extent no real difference can happen as there is little alternative. People need to heat homes, travel by road and air, construction needs to take place, people want to date have relationships and have kids, etc. Nowhere near enough people wanted to pass on that and live a pretty muted life and I don't blame them I don't. So I really do wonder if the virus was created as the only real way to deal with all of this the aim being that it puts the world's global population on a long term global decline as clearly we would be screwed otherwise with real big insurmountable problems happening by the end of the decade by how things were looking.

Accordingly, "A 2012 United Nations report summarized 65 different estimated maximum sustainable population sizes and the most common estimate was 8 billion. Advocates of reduced population often put forward much lower numbers. Paul R. Ehrlich stated in 2018 that the optimum population is between 1.5 and 2 billion."
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on November 04, 2021, 06:02:24 AM
Still no vaccine for me yet.   Wife already had virus, yet also got the vaccine second dose last week.   Of course, as expected she got sick from the vaccine.  Nothing serious, just a high fever and lying around a couple days.    She thinks I need to get the shot, almost everybody I know is bugging me to get the shot.     I would like to travel abroad soon, so that may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. 

Life expectancy down quite a bit in the US.  Virus impact on overall lifespan seems to be quite real (In a general sense) despite a 99% or so survival rate.     Heading to vegas this weekend, lets see if I can continue to avoid severe consequences for living such a sinful life. 

U.S. life expectancy falls sharply in 'sobering' loss of young people to Covid

 
The United States had the second-steepest decline in life expectancy among high-income countries last year during the pandemic, according to a study of death data spanning several continents.

 

The U.S. trend was among the worst.
 

U.S. men saw life expectancy fall by nearly 2.3 years. Women lost more than 1.6 years of life expectancy.

The measurements provide one of the most comprehensive views of the human cost of the pandemic and illuminates its effects on different age groups and genders. One surprise: The drop in life expectancy in the U.S. was driven by the deaths of young people, said Dr. Nazrul Islam, a researcher at the University of Oxford and the study’s lead author.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/life-expectancy-fell-sharply-u-223226859.html      (http://www.yahoo.com/news/life-expectancy-fell-sharply-u-223226859.html)

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
Men were generally thought to suffer worse/higher mortality figures so it's sounds like its panning out that way FT. I kind of thought that the sheer volume of overweight women in the west would tip the scales so to speak but looks like men are still being hit harder. I think the fact that your wife still got bad side effects even though she has already had the virus shows how bad it can be. My mother is up for her booster next week and the way things are going it's probably best for her to chance it with Pfizer as she's getting on. I myself would still look for other options as a fair bit younger and still not totally sure on the mRNA stuff.

In the Ukraine the infection rate is up to around 24,000 infections for yesterday and 752 deaths so it's getting quite bad out there now. Not sure if it will stay around that or get worse still.

Here in the UK infection rate stubbornly refuses to go down and death rate is probably around 150  ish a day on average and has kind of been that way for the last few months. They apparently don't expect things to get any better now that we are heading into Winter.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2021, 03:59:39 PM
UK becomes first country in the world to authorize use of first antiviral drug for use against the Coronavirus:

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-59163899

Apparently cuts risk of death and need for hospitalisations by half. Don't think we would be able to move this quickly if we were still part of the EU ;) Will no doubt save many lives.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 16, 2021, 02:19:06 AM
Well over 40s are now being offered the booster jab which will be Pfizer. I'm not going to be going for it as I'm not going to take an mRNA vaccine. The way I see it I've had two shots of the AZ vaccine which is better than nothing at all and although it may start to diminish in effectiveness it will have to do. I'll keep up my regular use of wearing a face mask and using anti bacterial hand gel and where necessary spray. I've done ok up till now and keep quite a low profile so it seems logical to me. At my age in my early to mid forties I've had the most youthful part of my life and the thought of old age doesn't thrill me so if it happens that I don't make it then at least I've avoided that.

Possibly I may try the US to see if I can get a booster of the AZ vaccine there or even J&J. No way am I taking any mRNA vaccine though there could be all sorts in that mix.

A week back now my Mother had the Pfizer booster, no real bad side effects. At her age though it's less of a long term risk so given the immediate risk to her it wasn't an option I disagreed with.

Apparently they reckon about 10 percent of the population already had built in immunity to the virus even before it came across. Apparently a lot of it genetic trait and likely also immune to similar stuff like Flu. No telling who is immune though so can't really guess. I've never really suffered from Flu bad, may have never had it at all, possibly a brief time one or twice but could have been something else but usually don't get it yearly or anything. Whether this means I've got some built in immunity who knows.

Infection figures in the UK are much the same so despite all the boosters to the elderly and vaccination of the rest of the population it looks like the virus is not going away soon. Ukraine is now in much the same position but with a higher death rate pro rata as they have a much lower vaccination rate. Going into winter they forecast it to be bad so will just have to see I guess.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 17, 2021, 03:06:51 AM
Looks like Valneva is set to become the best new vaccine to get in the new year. It's based on traditional methods so not mRNA but is more effective than the AZ vaccine. Our government was front of the queue but then cancelled the order due to some sort of breach if contract or not getting approval from our regulator. The vaccine had since been approved by the EU regulator so not sure what was going down there, politics possibly. So looks like not a great move from our government unless Astra Zenaca have their own version in the pipeline.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 20, 2021, 12:37:52 PM
Does anyone here know if it is still possible for a foreigner to get a Johnson & Johnson vaccine jab in New York? I know they were doing so earlier in the year around July/August time however thing have now moved on to boosters and mass vaccination centres have apparently closed and instead now vaccinations are apparently done through pharmacies and pop up sites. I've looked online and apparently some places are doing the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in New York but the NYC website won't let those from outside the US book. I'm not up for getting a Pfizer jab in the UK due to it being mRNA so wondering if anyone has any info on whether it's still possible for a foreigner to get a J&J jab?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 25, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
Well early heads up on this one guys and if it sounds out as bad as this initial report suggests I'm afraid it doesn't sound at all good, basically back to square one or possibly even worse if true:

BBC News - Covid: Africa travel restrictions over variant fear
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59424269
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on November 25, 2021, 11:04:16 PM
Does anyone here know if it is still possible for a foreigner to get a Johnson & Johnson vaccine jab in New York? I know they were doing so earlier in the year around July/August time however thing have now moved on to boosters and mass vaccination centres have apparently closed and instead now vaccinations are apparently done through pharmacies and pop up sites. I've looked online and apparently some places are doing the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in New York but the NYC website won't let those from outside the US book. I'm not up for getting a Pfizer jab in the UK due to it being mRNA so wondering if anyone has any info on whether it's still possible for a foreigner to get a J&J jab?
I’ll be getting my booster Pfizer dose soon.
Don’t worry Trench, I haven’t mutated into something else or grown a third eye.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: ML on November 26, 2021, 09:56:45 AM
I got third Pfizer several months ago.

And speaking of Johnson and Johnson . . . my Johnson grew around 50% as a result.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 26, 2021, 10:59:54 AM
I’ll be getting my booster Pfizer dose soon.
Don’t worry Trench, I haven’t mutated into something else or grown a third eye.

Apparently a case of the new variant is already in Belgium so you may not want to bother with that Pfizer booster Gaunty as it may be obsolete with a few days/weeks. My guess is that the UK might as well chuck the remaining Pfizer stock they have as it looks like it will be a waste of time and money  distributing and carrying out injections with it. Suits me as now there is even less point me booking in for the booster not that I was anyway due to it being mRNA. Just see what stock they will buy up for the new variant I guess.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2021, 03:34:42 AM
Apparently Omicron is the name given to the new variant looks like it has likely already spread a fair bit so guessing we're already stuffed on this one, likely just a matter of time till it kicks off everywhere:

BBC News - Covid: World races to contain new Omicron variant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59442129

Apparently re-infection risk is higher with it plus of course likely rendering most vaccinations given largely ineffective.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on November 27, 2021, 05:17:09 AM
Quote
The WHO said it would take a few weeks to understand the impact of the new variant, as scientists worked to determine how transmissible it was.

A top UK health official warned that vaccines would "almost certainly" be less effective against the new variant.

But Professor James Naismith, a structural biologist from the University of Oxford, added: "It is bad news but it's not doomsday."

Your article mentioned nothing about reinfections.

Too early to say anything, really.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on November 27, 2021, 06:15:39 AM
Update

First vaccination in the US 14 December. 299,193 deaths prior. Yesterday 799,138 = 499,945 deaths since 14 December or 1515 per million.
First vaccination in Italy 27 December, but let's take 14 December for parity. 65,011 deaths prior. Yesterday 133,537=68,526 deaths since 14 December, or 1142 per million.

In two months, for the US 1191 deaths per million to 1515, a 324 per million increase.
In two months, for Italy 1088 deaths per million to 1142, a 54 per million increase.

Last month the difference was 238, up from 103 per million, now that has grown to 270 per million in two months, and is still on the rise, representing a difference of 89,100 US lives during the same month period using population-adjusted figures.

(http://i.postimg.cc/VLkx4GmS/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-13-48-35.png)
http://i.postimg.cc/VLkx4GmS/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-13-48-35.png

(http://i.postimg.cc/1zsccT12/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-13-51-09.png)
http://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/

Note: The US figures don't include booster doses.  Almost 50% of those here over 80 have received them along with a good number of those over 40.  Italy is again working down with strict age brackets and vulnerable. I have seen recent reports that 20% of Americans that were vaccinated have received their booster shot, and that anyone 18 or over is eligible.

Italy stands at over 87% of those over 12 have at least one shot, and almost 85% are fully vaccinated.

The political divide is quite evident in the US.

(http://i.postimg.cc/SsC4FDK6/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-14-12-56.png)
http://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/

Again, make your own determinations.  IMO the correlations between vaccinations and death are quite evident.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2021, 07:37:45 AM
Two cases of the Omicron virus now detected in the UK:

http://www.gbnews.uk/a/166104

Already here so it looks like we will be suffering soon on this one.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2021, 12:27:12 PM
Masks are back in the UK in Supermarkets & Public Transport and other public indoors areas:

http://www.gbnews.uk/a/166245

I personally never thought they should have been dropped as not really fair on others having to use those places that wanted a bit of protection from other spreading it.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 01, 2021, 03:36:19 PM
So the Omicron virus appears to be spreading quickly here now with many cases found. Apparently symptoms are a lot milder so many cases could have gone undetected for a while. Scientists meanwhile can't seem to decide if the present vaccines will work well enough or if it will evade the present vaccines due to it having around 40 mutations or so. They also don't know if it will be just as deadly or not as the original virus, the Delta variants and other variants. There are scientists lining up on both sides of the fir both of those issues. So by the time they know in the coming weeks they likely won't need to tell us as we will already know as cases pan out.

This is an article from a scientist who reckons the virus won't get particularly any less deadly aside from vaccine situation:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/covid-19-variants-omicron-may-not-evolve-less-danger-time-nervtag-uk

There are other scientists who reckon that it will get weaker over time in order to spread. If the above guy is correct then we are then likely going to have to rely on scientific advances and possibly preventative measures, mask wearing, social distancing, etc.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 02, 2021, 02:35:23 PM
Early report out into the Omicron virus, apparently both fast spreading and able to reinfect those who have had Covid before:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-omicron-has-substantial-ability-to-evade-immunity-from-previous-coronavirus-infection-12484840

So still have to wait to see if the vaccine can give much protection against it.


Seems to be spreading real quick in South Africa, apparently cases have doubled in a day and in a straight vertical climb:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10263839/amp/South-Africas-Covid-cases-DOUBLE-day-test-positivity-climbs-16-5.html

Another Report says cases so far have been mild but early days as we know from before it can take a while before hospitalisations and deaths. Hopefully it will stay mild and we will avoid that this time though. The potential positive is if it really evolves into a weaker and weaker strain(s).
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on December 03, 2021, 05:47:24 AM
Early report out into the Omicron virus, apparently both fast spreading and able to reinfect those who have had Covid before:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-omicron-has-substantial-ability-to-evade-immunity-from-previous-coronavirus-infection-12484840

So still have to wait to see if the vaccine can give much protection against it.


Seems to be spreading real quick in South Africa, apparently cases have doubled in a day and in a straight vertical climb:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10263839/amp/South-Africas-Covid-cases-DOUBLE-day-test-positivity-climbs-16-5.html

Another Report says cases so far have been mild but early days as we know from before it can take a while before hospitalisations and deaths. Hopefully it will stay mild and we will avoid that this time though. The potential positive is if it really evolves into a weaker and weaker strain(s).

Just line up, get your jab, prepare for the next one and shut your pie hole. You're all in
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 03, 2021, 07:12:23 AM
Just line up, get your jab, prepare for the next one and shut your pie hole. You're all in

LMAO! It’s comical to watch the sheeples actually. They all lost rational thought process. It’s now actually ‘news’ that this ‘new’ strain supposedly render naturally immune folks defenseless from getting infected. LMAO.


The idiots who were reported to have ‘brought’ it inside they US were fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated folks, you know - the ones with those silly 'green passes' - freedom to roam - are the ones that are carrying, infecting, spreading, prolonging, worsening the pandemic global condition.

Then puppy-crazed Fauci reared his silly head again to rush everyone and get a booster. A waning, single strain protection vaccine that was created ‘prior’ to all these trendy variants, which only temporarily protects anyone, have people believing is good for any/all variants.

The next display of silliness is you are going to get someone counting imaginary sheep jumping over some virtual fences trying to find some justification in their mindless submission.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on December 03, 2021, 08:01:04 AM
LMAO! It’s comical to watch the sheeples actually. They all lost rational thought process. It’s now actually ‘news’ that this ‘new’ strain supposedly render naturally immune folks defenseless from getting infected. LMAO. The idiots who were reported to have ‘brought’ it inside they US were fully vaccinated.

Then puppy-crazed Fauci reared his silly head again to rush everyone and get a booster. A waning vaccine that was created ‘prior’ to all these trendy variants, which only temporarily protects anyone.

The next display of silliness is you are going to get someone counting sheep jumping over some virtual fences trying to find some justification in their mindless submission.
As if the growing restrictions weren't enough already, many members of my family are not happy with MY decision to remain unvaccinated.  Just another aggravation.     

At some point I intend on eventually getting the vaccination after the omicron virus is covered.  I think I've always believed that we will all get the virus at some point.  Despite a lot of science behind the vaccination, I'm still a sceptic in my case. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 03, 2021, 09:20:20 AM
Folks need to do what they believe they should do. Period. That goes for every single one of us. Having idiots discriminate one from others for choosing to do what they believe they should do is asinine.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2021, 01:47:39 PM
LMAO! It’s comical to watch the sheeples actually. They all lost rational thought process. It’s now actually ‘news’ that this ‘new’ strain supposedly render naturally immune folks defenseless from getting infected. LMAO.


The idiots who were reported to have ‘brought’ it inside they US were fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated folks, you know - the ones with those silly 'green passes' - freedom to roam - are the ones that are carrying, infecting, spreading, prolonging, worsening the pandemic global condition.

Then puppy-crazed Fauci reared his silly head again to rush everyone and get a booster. A waning, single strain protection vaccine that was created ‘prior’ to all these trendy variants, which only temporarily protects anyone, have people believing is good for any/all variants.

The next display of silliness is you are going to get someone counting imaginary sheep jumping over some virtual fences trying to find some justification in their mindless submission.

Well of the ones that have gotten Omicron in the UK so far, those that we know off half have had two jabs of the vaccine. That means it looks like it's evading the vaccines to sone extent and getting through. Of course any strain of the the virus could still mean that the person gets it even with the vaccine. So still to see how deep this will go, whether the Omicron causes serious illness & death in both or just the unvaccinated. If the vaccines no longer protect much at all then a lot of people are wasting their time getting pointless booster jabs and potentially exposing themselves to any possible problems that might surface with the vaccines down the line.

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-over-half-of-uk-omicron-cases-happened-after-two-jabs-as-ukhsa-releases-risk-assessment-12485607
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2021, 01:48:45 PM
Just line up, get your jab, prepare for the next one and shut your pie hole. You're all in

Lol, yeah there is the danger of going down the railroad tracks once on it.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 04, 2021, 03:48:50 PM
Possibly some hope on the horizon if this sounds out:

http://www.cityam.com/from-covid-curse-to-blessing-coronavirus-experts-relief-grows-as-extremely-mild-omicron-variant-rapidly-exterminates-much-more-deadly-delta-mutation/

So far the Omicron virus has apparently not killed anyone though early days so still got to wait to see I guess.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 08, 2021, 12:54:41 PM
Well apparently admissions to hospital missing South Africa have just more than doubled:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-07/s-africa-daily-covid-hospital-admissions-more-than-double

I assume as a result of the Omicron variant. South Africa of course doesn't have much of the population vaccinated at all.

Also heard this morning that the Pfizer jab doesn't give much protection against Omicron. This evening heard if three doses are given they reckon it does. I'm guessing selling three times as much will be good for Pfizer.

The WHO just isn't sure about the reports that the Omicron virus may be milder:

http://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/who-says-omicron-covid-variant-could-change-the-course-of-the-pandemic.html

They'll no doubt make up their mind when we find out which is the case.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 08, 2021, 02:29:33 PM
To be honest, if this variant proves to be not so mild in the end then the outlook may not look so good if it's much the same as the other variants. It could mean always dealing with a bad variant somewhere that is constantly changing. They already reckon there may be sub variants off this one.

That said some of the other variants that have been knocking around might possibly have not been so bad so will just have to see when more conclusive outcome comes out in a few days most likely.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on December 10, 2021, 07:51:12 AM
Had my Pfizer booster yesterday.its knocked me for a six today. Hope tomorrow is a better day.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 10, 2021, 08:57:19 AM
Hope tomorrow is a better day.

It will be.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 10, 2021, 09:39:12 AM
It will be.

Depends on whether dying is classed as a good day of course ;D
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 10, 2021, 10:53:13 AM
The odds are extraordinarily good he'll still be living tomorrow.  Chances JG will get struck by lightning are far greater than dying of a booster.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on December 10, 2021, 11:00:50 PM
Depends on whether dying is classed as a good day of course ;D
Sorry to disappoint you, Trenchie. I’m still around and not pushing up the daisies just yet.
I have to say, tho, the reaction to that shot was something else. It’s going to take me a few days to recover. Weak as a kitten today, I had really high temperatures last night and when my fever broke the bed clothes were soaked.
I can’t remember the last time I had a fever like this.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 11, 2021, 09:41:50 AM
Sorry to disappoint you, Trenchie. I’m still around and not pushing up the daisies just yet.
I have to say, tho, the reaction to that shot was something else. It’s going to take me a few days to recover. Weak as a kitten today, I had really high temperatures last night and when my fever broke the bed clothes were soaked.
I can’t remember the last time I had a fever like this.

And yet you managed to summon the strength to reply to me, I'm quite touched JG :luv:
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on December 13, 2021, 01:37:29 AM
And yet you managed to summon the strength to reply to me, I'm quite touched JG :luv:

Are you feeling a bit needy, Trench?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 13, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
WTF?!? (http://www.euronews.com/2021/12/11/omicron-could-cause-tens-of-thousands-of-deaths-in-england-study-says)

First omicron death reported in the UK, now Pfizer is saying a 4th shot is required for protection?!? I thought a) this was a mild varinat, and b) the vaccine was a single strain vaccine that offered 97+% protection?

What good will it do to get pumped with the same soup that wasn't created for the recent variant/s? I mean even yearly influenza is designed for the changing strain.

LMAO! Best get at least boosters once-week for future variants now. Sheesh!


 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on December 13, 2021, 10:48:12 AM
WTF?!? (http://www.euronews.com/2021/12/11/omicron-could-cause-tens-of-thousands-of-deaths-in-england-study-says)

First omicron death reported in the UK, now Pfizer is saying a 4th shot is required for protection?!? I thought a) this was a mild varinat, and b) the vaccine was a single strain vaccine that offered 97+% protection?

What good will it do to get pumped with the same soup that wasn't created for the recent variant/s? I mean even yearly influenza is designed for the changing strain.

LMAO! Best get at least boosters once-week for future variants now. Sheesh!


 :ROFL:

I read today that 1 out of every 100 people over 65 years in the US has died of covid so far.  I'm only guessing but I'd imagine if there were no mitigations/shots, maybe 5-10 out of 100 would already be dead.  That's when it starts to become a very significant figure so I guess shots are the better alternative at this time. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 13, 2021, 12:24:28 PM
Are you feeling a bit needy, Trench?

See you are feeling better already Gaunty ;D
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 13, 2021, 12:29:18 PM
WTF?!? (http://www.euronews.com/2021/12/11/omicron-could-cause-tens-of-thousands-of-deaths-in-england-study-says)

First omicron death reported in the UK, now Pfizer is saying a 4th shot is required for protection?!? I thought a) this was a mild varinat, and b) the vaccine was a single strain vaccine that offered 97+% protection?

What good will it do to get pumped with the same soup that wasn't created for the recent variant/s? I mean even yearly influenza is designed for the changing strain.

LMAO! Best get at least boosters once-week for future variants now. Sheesh!


 :ROFL:

It's good business sense why flog only 3 when you can sell 4 lol.

Yeah I saw that news today also, don't think they said who it was, if elderly, existing health issues, etc. They did say a load of people who were double jabbed being admitted with it, over half apparently. Though of course most people in the country are double jabbed so not that many single jabbed/unjabbed people in proportion. Anyhow they reckon don't be taken by the mild symptoms guess we'll just have to see how this pans out in the coming days/weeks
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 13, 2021, 03:48:18 PM
I read today that 1 out of every 100 people over 65 years in the US has died of covid so far.  I'm only guessing but I'd imagine if there were no mitigations/shots, maybe 5-10 out of 100 would already be dead.  That's when it starts to become a very significant figure so I guess shots are the better alternative at this time. 

Fathertime!


Well, it hasn't been a generation ago for any of us to have forgotten, you know. Many should thank Trump for 'Operation Warp Speed', if they feel the vaccine is their lifesaver. Which is actually hysterical when snowflakes coin calling all *anti-vaxxer - Trump supporters* considering he got and promoted vaccination, and was behind its creation.

In any event, they once held this vaccine has >97% efficacy. What that actually means, clinically, at how well it *prevents* diseases (in this case, COVID-19) and even its transmission. That went out the window. Because in the beginning, they suppressed information that vaccinated people can in fact get infected and even transmit the diseases. They first labeled it *breakthrough cases*, but eventually just abandoned that as they can no longer uphold that BS. Reality, given ample time, like RussiaGate, have its way overrunning myths every single time. Ask Adam Shiff, he should know that 'fact'.

The second shot was supposed to insure full protection from SARS-Covid-2. LMAO!

Then 'variants' came, enter boosters, vaccine period of effectiveness, etc...that's out the window. SARS Covid-2 will obviously have lineage, like influenza before it, which would spring variants. They would have you know the same original vaccine is suppose to prevent you from contracting the disease and avoid from transmission - as long as you are getting the booster shindigs.


But the silly travelling vaccinated crowd are bringing 'home' all these variants (It can't possibly be those damned Trump-unvaccinated-supporters because they must be all infected for not being Fauci's puppies, which prevents them from travelling more than a mile from their infected homes and are stuck just watching FOX News. LMAO). But never fear! Just keep getting 'boostered by the same vaccine and all should be fine and dandy!  :P

Now sure if you noticed this, too. When the murmur is about vaccinating teenagers, all of the sudden there's this spike in infection and death amongst teenagers. That would last a week or two on TV and media. Then when it came time to vaccinating children, yup, all of the sudden children were getting assaulted and are dying coast to coast! Never mind that prior to that only 513 died of COVID-19, nearly two years after patient no. 1, but there's an urgency to vaccinate them now or else!!!!?

Now this variant is starting to raze the UK, Europe, even the previously *protected / vaccinated sheeples*, maybe especially the protected / vaccinated sheeples, fauci-puppies, because they're out there acting cocky as though they bought into the hype - lock, stock & barrel and they can't possibly, seriously, well you know...whatever.

Like I've said before, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. You feel you need the vaccine - go ahead *Jive-the-Tribe and get your Jab!* As many times as you feel safe and comfortable with. Booster 4, 5, 6...hell make it weekly, daily...who cares.

Does it really matter now?


Me? Dunno, but things are surely, I mean 'really, looking like the 21st century snake oil business to me. Not saying it is - but sure damned looks like it.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Faux Pas on December 13, 2021, 09:39:15 PM
WTF?!? (http://www.euronews.com/2021/12/11/omicron-could-cause-tens-of-thousands-of-deaths-in-england-study-says)

First omicron death reported in the UK, now Pfizer is saying a 4th shot is required for protection?!? I thought a) this was a mild varinat, and b) the vaccine was a single strain vaccine that offered 97+% protection?

What good will it do to get pumped with the same soup that wasn't created for the recent variant/s? I mean even yearly influenza is designed for the changing strain.

LMAO! Best get at least boosters once-week for future variants now. Sheesh!


 :ROFL:


You really can't make this shyte up. Before we had the new covid science, we had the old science where variants spun off of viruses were much weaker than the original in both scope, seriousness and ability to spread. The new covid science such variants are much more deadly than the original, spread faster and get this, drive down the financial markets. More so, it makes some folks who previously had a modicum of intelligence, have none. Man, that is some bad shit. Zombie apocalypse is among us
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2021, 08:47:46 PM
I don't recall anyone stating either Delta or Omricon are more deadly than the original COVID-19 virus.  In fact, everything I've read states the opposite.  Neither is as deadly as the original, but they are both more contagious, as they are both flatter.  So, less deadly, but more transmissible.


I also question your assertion that variants of previous viruses were weaker than the original.  Most virus mutations are harmless.  But some give a virus a selective advantage.  Antigenic drift, for example, is why we have different flus every season, and why some are far more deadly than others (there are no more than three types of flu viruses, before mutations).  HIV is another virus that became more deadly over time, and it still mutates, to resist anti-HIV drugs.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 15, 2021, 12:20:14 PM
I don't recall anyone stating either Delta or Omricon are more deadly than the original COVID-19 virus.  In fact, everything I've read states the opposite.  Neither is as deadly as the original, but they are both more contagious, as they are both flatter.  So, less deadly, but more transmissible.


I also question your assertion that variants of previous viruses were weaker than the original.  Most virus mutations are harmless.  But some give a virus a selective advantage.  Antigenic drift, for example, is why we have different flus every season, and why some are far more deadly than others (there are no more than three types of flu viruses, before mutations).  HIV is another virus that became more deadly over time, and it still mutates, to resist anti-HIV drugs.


1. There's no such thing as a 'COVID-19' virus. COVID-19 is a disease. The virus is called SARS-CoV-2
2. The Delta variant in fact causes more severe illness than the original strain.

FWIW.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 15, 2021, 01:55:32 PM
Well Omicron has taken hold here in the UK, Coronavirus cases in general are up from 50k ish in a day to 78k That's a big jump up so the cat is out the bag here. People in some areas have been queuing around the block to get the Pfizer booster jab, Bristol was one such place that I saw a pic of that online. Me myself I'm sticking with the two AZ jabs I had and Respirator mask and hand gel. I'll accept whatever comes as they say life isn't forever in any case and becoming an old fart doesn't thrill me either.

India has just had their first few Omicron cases. Ukraine is has extended its lockdown until the end of March, cases not up their yet so looks like they are still dealing with Delta but it will likely get there at some point. For them of course it heightens the problem as then more vaccine needed and many still either without or just first or second jab. So it may be a struggle for poorer nations to keep up.

Meanwhile I think I'll spend my time finishing off my house, onto the kitchen now so not much left to do. That and work on raising my game should I ever get back to the dating game in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 15, 2021, 02:56:42 PM
Well Omicron has taken hold here in the UK, Coronavirus cases in general are up from 50k ish in a day to 78k That's a big jump up so the cat is out the bag here. People in some areas have been queuing around the block to get the Pfizer booster jab, Bristol was one such place that I saw a pic of that online. Me myself I'm sticking with the two AZ jabs I had and Respirator mask and hand gel. I'll accept whatever comes as they say life isn't forever in any case and becoming an old fart doesn't thrill me either.

Ahhh...scaring the sh!t out of you, eh? Doesn't it amaze you how something that kills less than 2% it infects had gripped the entire civilized world for 2 years!? Which in turn gave all our government the undeniable power to infringe in all our basic rights at the same time - and most readily comply! Amazing, eh?

I bet it will also amaze you to learn that Taiwan, with a population of 23.8 million, only suffered 850+/- deaths!! Skim over and look at Hong Kong's data.  Heck, most will likely chime Mainland China's numbers has got to be skewed because they're Commies and cannot be trusted. Haiti...heck, most of Africa and the Saharan region/nations!! Even that Obama-created slave capital nation of Libya!! Look at their SAR-Cov-2 data! Feel sorry for poor nations you say? LMAO.

Genghis Khan and his marauding horde were not only generous sperm donors for the greater Russian female population at the time, but they also left behind homeopathic practice of that somewhat violent nasal flush whenever you have some silly virus about to give you the colds. Clears the nasal cavities in the same way when you get off the pool and had that chlorinated water do a number on your nasal passages.

Better yet, use two of nature's best antiseptics to aid your angst a bit. Salted water and iodine. Ocean water have both, baby! You'll never see a surfer with zits, or is sneezing, hacking, dripping at any time.

So here's the Snake Pit Wagon salesman's pitch...for a measly British pound, I can supply you with a weekly shipment of, are you ready for this,

:::::drum roll please:::::

Oro-Nasal Virucidal Therapy!!! That's right! The cheapest, simplest, widely available, proven treatment to banished and spank those nasty SARS-Cov-2 virus out of your hair!!!!

http://www.peertechzpublications.com/articles/ACMPH-6-193.php (http://www.peertechzpublications.com/articles/ACMPH-6-193.php)

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0254341 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0254341)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026810/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026810/)
http://journalotohns.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40463-020-00474-x (http://journalotohns.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40463-020-00474-x)

Tried and true from the poorest of the poor nations who just can't afford these 21st century vaccines.



But wait, that's not all...if you call now, we will not only waive the shipment fees, we will also send you 2, count that TWO, contact information for two of the loveliest Ukrainian ladies that'll strike your fancy - FOR FREE! But you must act now. Call! 1 (800) I-L-O-V-E-T-R-U-M-P!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 16, 2021, 01:54:25 AM
GQ,

I'm having a time trying to decide if your posts are construed as simply, satirical opinion, or if Hanlon's Razor should apply. Although quite loud and bombastic, they are neither supported by facts, or, at most partial facts.  No solutions are offered nor is it acknowledged that an addressable problem even exists.

Case in point:

Your stance seems to state that the 2% are simply not worth bothering about.  Should we really be doing nothing?  Do you have any estimates how high the body count would be without vaccines and other mitigation measures?  Is the CDC graph below representing the inordinate amount of over 800 thousand excess deaths in the US simply wrong?

(http://i.postimg.cc/LXyVXwg2/Screen-Shot-2021-12-16-at-08-47-46.png)

Do you have any factual information that vaccines and mitigation are useless as you seem to indicate?  Plenty of factual evidence indicates otherwise.  What's the deal with Italy nowadays? Even Germany who had an excellent record of low deaths has now fallen far behind with 7 day population adjusted daily deaths at least twice to almost three times that of Italy.

(http://i.postimg.cc/FsTct8kx/Screen-Shot-2021-12-16-at-09-08-17.png)

Both countries have similar mitigation strategies.  Is it even remotely possible that Italy with a higher rate of vaccinations and oldest-first policy has gained a considerable edge? I do acknowledge that green pass mandates are stricter here and include workplaces, but that only amplifies my point.

What's your verdict?

Another point, you misconstrue otherwise helpful information regarding nasal sprays by failing to mention a very important caveat:

Quote
I recommend here, this oro-nasal spray should be used as an adjunct to PPE, mask or vaccine. Any person, policy maker, local or central government could adopt this safe, cheap, easily available and effective PVP-I Oro-Nasal spray as an additional shield of their COVID-19 protection and thus minimize the COVID burden.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026810/

Sure, why not take a couple snorts in addition to other measures when going out. Likely more pleasant and safer than squirting hand cleanser up your nose.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  Do you accept PayPal?






Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 16, 2021, 02:59:42 AM
I bet it will also amaze you to learn that Taiwan, with a population of 23.8 million, only suffered 850+/- deaths!!

Another point.

Did you even consider the proactive vs reactive mitigation efforts Taiwan undertook, or mitigation compliance levels of the population, not to mention the practice they have from prior pandemics?  They were well prepared, we were not.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30044-4/fulltext

http://time.com/5769314/hong-kong-sars-memories-wuhan-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2021, 07:05:01 AM
Sheesh BC, relax, take two long breaths and let the tensive need to debate anything on the table at any time be gone.

Oro nasal virucidal sprays, clinically administered, or simple homemade concoction of water, iodine, even salt are widely used in, as TC opined, in poor nations. He can pay me via PayPal and I would’ve gladly sent him my secret ingredient of water and salt to flush away his fears. You can pretty much mix a lot of combination diluted with water. Chlorine, or pool water is one. Bleach, remember Trump’s inarticulate musing? Proper amount is key. Heck, I’m even surprised to read one of the clinical study included carageenan. While mostly used in food we eat, it is also known to be toxic. Anyway, not too many Americans practice nasal flushes, or even thought of it as a good prevention protocol, likely probably not even you.

Taiwan is a marvel to admire in their national awareness and programs which resulted with an admirable low mortality against covid-19. Pre-SARS CoV-2, they already have a National protocol in place in the event of an outbreak. From prevention, control management, mitigation and most importantly - treatment protocol in place. Taiwan was, and is, in their battle against the virus - the US and likely the rest of the high income, technologically and clinically advanced nations, is/are not.

At the onset of the pandemic, Taiwan’s CDC was automatic in their response. From border management to treatment protocol was in place. Contrast that to the US, maybe even your home country of Italy. Heck, when Taiwan became aware the virus came from Wuhan, it exercised strict restrictive travel protocol. When Trump did the same, he was demonized by the media and democrats and called a racist, lol.

Where Taiwan’s CDC was diligent in their response, the US’s CDC was fumbling around unto itself. The US was only a decade removed from two, count that, 2 viral epidemic (Remember Ron Klain’s comment?). Yet it was not only inadequately equipped to handle SARS-CoV-2, it involved itself in making the pandemic political. Heck, I still remember CDC had us buying hand sanitizer, washing our hands for literally a minute, washing every fruit and vegetable, sanitizing tables or any inanimate objects, etc as though the boogeyman resides in these crevices. Actually they still maintain that recommendation. A classic rendition of the blind leading the blind.

Your home country was not any better. Even after WHO announced the virus’ origin was Wuhan, instead of taking extreme measure of prevention, you guys began a hug-a-Chinese festival. Then cap that off by your leaders throwing a house party for a bunch of chine$e investors dignitaries. Further exposing the world, Europe and the west to this virus.

Anyway, no sense re-litigating history. To this day, as you can plainly see this even on this board, general western public is still ignorant and uneducated about this virus. Even after two years. Including you. You’re still stuck on first gear with your silly graph illustration as though it’s gospel. Take heed. You’re not the only one that heavily rely on Googled information. You’re so busy with body counts as though it’s a competition between countries, LMAO. It’s fucking funny to watch.

Hopefully soon westerners can at least move beyond and distinctively differentiate a virus from the disease. Instead of digesting mainstream media article and spewing it out somewhere in hopes of impressing anyone at how much they know (what they don’t really understand).

As for the vaccine, again ad nauseum, I’m not an anti-vaxxer. You feel you need, want, dream of, addicted to, want it for Xmas, betcha-by-golly wow! Better git wit it’ pronto Tonto! My point is and always had been, while there’s a mortality benefit for it on people aged and immuno-compromised, it doesn’t prevent you from infection and a carrier of the disease, which is the stupid argument used to discriminate against unvaccinated or non-immunized (naturally immune) person.

The US still doesn’t have an established treatment protocol. 12 years removed from H1 N1 epidemic, 2 years after SARS-CoV-2. I hazard to guess at how many could’ve have been saved from the 800,000 had there been a treatment protocol in place beyond ‘stay home, take 2 aspirin, call your doctor in the morning’. Trump was 74 years old, had a voracious appetite for Big Mac and KFC, so he wasn’t a beacon of health when he was stricken with the disease. Yet they treated him with Monoclonal antibody, and presto - up and about. Same with Grizzly Boris Johnson. Now why we didn’t do these to average John/Jane Doe. To this day, monoclonal antibodies are still under EUA, and are not recommended in any hospital as treatment for severe cases of Covid-19. Why?

All roads should’ve never been leading everyone to vaccine. As I provided in another thread as proof, vaccinated or not, the lack of treatment/therapeutic protocol, the disease can still kill you with impunity. 

As for your comment about the 2 percenter, chew on this, as of today in the US - 75% of the 800k that died with COVID-19 are aged 65 and over. Literally and figuratively, the old and the sick, or both. Meaning, for the <65 year olds, the mortality rate is 0.001%. Again, with an established treatment protocol, god only knows how much less of a mortality threat COVID-19 really is. More people likely died on fentanyl, drug OD,  relatively, with proper treatment in place.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 16, 2021, 10:45:36 AM
GQ,

I just asked a couple of simple, direct questions, that's all.  Didn't really need a verbose recap of my post and the links.

But hey, nobody is twisting your arm to answer :)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 17, 2021, 08:52:49 AM
GQ,

I just asked a couple of simple, direct questions, that's all.  Didn't really need a verbose recap of my post and the links.

But hey, nobody is twisting your arm to answer :)


'Verbose' is often use to describe academic language, so thanks...direct questions comprehensively addressed. FACTUALLY.

 :D


Surprisingly, no Googled riposte from you...
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 17, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

'Verbose' is often use to describe academic language, so thanks...direct questions comprehensively addressed. FACTUALLY.

 :D

Glad you added the smiley.  Guess I could have used the phrase "beating wildly around the bush" instead.

Quote
Surprisingly, no Googled riposte from you...

It is quite common to try and make a point, or ask a question as a prompt for replies.  I failed to see either.  Maybe you can re-phrase in a more concise manner.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 17, 2021, 01:30:17 PM
Glad you added the smiley.  Guess I could have used the phrase "beating wildly around the bush" instead.


Translation: There was nothing you could contest.

Quote
It is quite common to try and make a point, or ask a question as a prompt for replies.  I failed to see either.  Maybe you can re-phrase in a more concise manner.


See above. You asked the Qs, and alleged segments of my post was short of facts. I've replied, and comprehensively explained much of what were asked - factually. Just wondered the absence of Goggled retort from your reply, is all..


 :-\
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: John Gaunt on December 18, 2021, 01:37:35 AM

Translation: There was nothing you could contest.


See above. You asked the Qs, and alleged segments of my post was short of facts. I've replied, and comprehensively explained much of what were asked - factually. Just wondered the absence of Goggled retort from your reply, is all..


 :-\
Is this a new technicality we should be aware of......?
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 18, 2021, 09:01:50 AM

Surprisingly, no Googled riposte from you...

No worries GQ, I'll get around to you.  Lots of pre-holiday things to do going on these days.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 19, 2021, 02:32:19 AM
GQ,

Finally got a bit of time to address your post indicating I ran out of google words and thus incapable of reply.

In reply to Trench, you wrote:


I bet it will also amaze you to learn that Taiwan, with a population of 23.8 million, only suffered 850+/- deaths!! Skim over and look at Hong Kong's data.  Heck, most will likely chime Mainland China's numbers has got to be skewed because they're Commies and cannot be trusted.

I took the context of this statement as being a critique of HK’s response and low numbers of deaths, replying with:

Did you even consider the proactive vs reactive mitigation efforts Taiwan undertook, or mitigation compliance levels of the population, not to mention the practice they have from prior pandemics?  They were well prepared, we were not.

Regardless of the context, on the subject of HK, you replied:

Taiwan is a marvel to admire in their national awareness and programs which resulted with an admirable low mortality against covid-19. Pre-SARS CoV-2, they already have a National protocol in place in the event of an outbreak. From prevention, control management, mitigation and most importantly - treatment protocol in place. Taiwan was, and is, in their battle against the virus - the US and likely the rest of the high income, technologically and clinically advanced nations, is/are not.

At the onset of the pandemic, Taiwan’s CDC was automatic in their response. From border management to treatment protocol was in place.

Now whether or not I got the context of your original remark correct, or not, no response on my part is needed as we agree as to HK’s experience and crisis response leading to low numbers of deaths. 

Regarding nasal sprays, I responded:

Sure, why not take a couple snorts in addition to other measures when going out. Likely more pleasant and safer than squirting hand cleanser up your nose.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

You reply in agreement:

Quote
Oro nasal virucidal sprays, clinically administered, or simple homemade concoction of water, iodine, even salt are widely used in, as TC opined, in poor nations. He can pay me via PayPal and I would’ve gladly sent him my secret ingredient of water and salt to flush away his fears. You can pretty much mix a lot of combination diluted with water. Chlorine, or pool water is one. Bleach, remember Trump’s inarticulate musing? Proper amount is key. Heck, I’m even surprised to read one of the clinical study included carageenan. While mostly used in food we eat, it is also known to be toxic. Anyway, not too many Americans practice nasal flushes, or even thought of it as a good prevention protocol, likely probably not even you.

Again, how can you state I am lacking in response for something we agree on?

After a lengthy political harangue, you did at least attempt to answer one question I posed:

Quote
Your stance seems to state that the 2% are simply not worth bothering about.  Should we really be doing nothing?  Do you have any estimates how high the body count would be without vaccines and other mitigation measures?

You reply with:

Quote
As for your comment about the 2 percenter, chew on this, as of today in the US - 75% of the 800k that died with COVID-19 are aged 65 and over. Literally and figuratively, the old and the sick, or both. Meaning, for the <65 year olds, the mortality rate is 0.001%. Again, with an established treatment protocol, god only knows how much less of a mortality threat COVID-19 really is. More people likely died on fentanyl, drug OD,  relatively, with proper treatment in place.

The only way I can interpret your re-phrased proposition in reply to a direct question is “No” on the first count, and and “Doesn’t matter” as to the second, and that your solution is simply to do nothing.  A treatment protocol exists and is frequently updated as new facts arise.  http://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/about-the-guidelines/whats-new/

Why would this be deserving of a reply on my part?

Other than subsequent mentions of google in a feeble attempt to shoot the messenger, you did not address the following questions:

Quote
Is the CDC graph below representing the inordinate amount of over 800 thousand excess deaths in the US simply wrong?

Quote
Do you have any factual information that vaccines and mitigation are useless as you seem to indicate?

Quote
What's the deal with Italy nowadays? Even Germany who had an excellent record of low deaths has now fallen far behind with 7 day population adjusted daily deaths at least twice to almost three times that of Italy.  Both countries have similar mitigation strategies.  Is it even remotely possible that Italy with a higher rate of vaccinations and oldest-first policy has gained a considerable edge? I do acknowledge that green pass mandates are stricter here and include workplaces, but that only amplifies my point.  What's your verdict?

So you see, your accusations that somehow I ran out of google power or whatever is simply false, and instead, responses to my direct questions lack, despite your assertions to the contrary.
Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on December 19, 2021, 02:20:43 PM
It's time that Fauci takes his payola and leaves government. His time is over,
he has become a caricature of himself.

If Biden had a brain not addled by Alzheimer's related atrophy he could have gotten
rid of this pompous boob and had somebody without all the lies and flip flops to
represent the "New Official Whitehouse Position" on all things Covid, but they
didn't and now all the negative crap from Covid has passed right on to Biden's shoulders.


Fauci says masks on planes will always be necessary no matter what
http://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fauci-masks-planes-necessary-extra-step

Now would be a good time for Biden to publicly fire and humiliate Fauci and do a
Clintonian third way pivot. They won't do that since the fundamentalist totalitarians
in his regime won't allow it.

The Biden regime will let the radicals drag them down to the low teens in approval
ratings getting down to where Kamala Harris starts looking good.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 19, 2021, 03:51:12 PM

Fauci says masks on planes will always be necessary no matter what
http://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fauci-masks-planes-necessary-extra-step


Prudent, especially flying with a planeload of folks with unknown vaccination status or had not been tested shortly prior which seems to be the norm within the US.  If such is required flying to/from the US, it should be required for domestic travel.



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 20, 2021, 08:32:31 AM
Fauci says masks on planes will always be necessary no matter what
http://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fauci-masks-planes-necessary-extra-step (http://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fauci-masks-planes-necessary-extra-step)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy0viwAJWjc

The guy is a damned idiot! He should be shipped to Tunisia for some sand fly experiments. When he experimented with ferrets by pumping them with highly lethal viruses (H5n1) to see if they can transmit the virus via aerosolization, the scientific community was mortified which ultimately led to the funding and banning of gain-of function research and stopped his heinous Josef Mengele-like behavior.

Then, void of authorization, he cloaked and renamed that practice and continued to circumvent the ban and found a way to continue funding gain-of function experiments anyway. Here we are today.

http://www.science.org/content/article/us-infectious-disease-chief-urges-flu-scientists-engage-support-h5n1-research (http://www.science.org/content/article/us-infectious-disease-chief-urges-flu-scientists-engage-support-h5n1-research)


Quote from: Fauci
[/size]There is a real and present danger of the natural evolution of the virus and that is why you do the experiments* that might appear to be risky in the eyes of some. You do the experiments so we can stay ahead of the naturally evolving risk.

[/size]* Gain-of-Function experiments.[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 21, 2021, 11:45:54 AM

Fauci says masks on planes will always be necessary no matter what
http://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fauci-masks-planes-necessary-extra-step (http://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fauci-masks-planes-necessary-extra-step)



RIGHT! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/defense-department-study-finds-low-risk-of-coronavirus-infection-through-air-on-a-packed-airline-flight/2020/10/15/e84aa092-0e30-11eb-8a35-237ef1eb2ef7_story.html). Apparently not according to the Pentagon. You don't trust the Pentagon...how about Harvard (http://www.ustravel.org/news/harvard-study-low-risk-covid-19-transmission-when-flying#:~:text=The%20study%2C%20conducted%20by%20the,virus%20from%20the%20cabin%20air.)?



If 99% of the virus particle is filtered out then why the need for a mask mandate? I supposed that goes in line with vaccinating young, healthy folks (<65) who have a risk of dying at the rate of 0.001%.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 21, 2021, 01:30:24 PM

RIGHT! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/defense-department-study-finds-low-risk-of-coronavirus-infection-through-air-on-a-packed-airline-flight/2020/10/15/e84aa092-0e30-11eb-8a35-237ef1eb2ef7_story.html)

Researchers concluded that, if passengers wear surgical masks continuously, very little of the virus spreads, because of how the air is circulated and filtered on the planes.


Quote
Harvard (http://www.ustravel.org/news/harvard-study-low-risk-covid-19-transmission-when-flying#:~:text=The%20study%2C%20conducted%20by%20the,virus%20from%20the%20cabin%20air.)

The report stresses that other layers of safety measures must be present, including:

universal wearing of face masks
by passengers and crew throughout the journey;



Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 22, 2021, 05:34:57 AM
Which part of over 99% did you missed again? People should mask because of literally minute percentage? What happens when they get served meals and drinks? Threat takes a break too?

Let me guess, you’re now so freaked out you’re wearing a mask at home?

Quote
The researchers, which included a team from the University of Nebraska, concluded that the virus was removed by the plane’s air filtering systems 15 times as fast as in a typical home and five or six times as fast as what is recommended for hospital operating rooms and patient isolation rooms.

Best crawl in a hole to stay safe, and forget life for a while. This virus is here to keep us company a while. LOL!

Pandemic of lunacy.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 22, 2021, 07:48:57 AM
GQ,

Don't start blaming others if you have problems reading and comprehending the material you post.  Ya know, stuff like:

Quote
Significantly, the study did not examine the risk posed by the virus spreading in larger droplets that people can spread when eating or talking.

Mannequins don't talk, sneeze, cough etc.  People in planes do.

Suggest taking the time to read the source reports and studies linked in such articles, review disclaimers and learn basic things such as the difference between aerosol and droplets.  Doing so might elevate the quality and credibility of your posts instead of risking making an ass of yourself.

Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: fathertime on December 22, 2021, 08:21:09 AM

Best crawl in a hole to stay safe, and forget life for a while. This virus is here to keep us company a while. LOL!

Pandemic of lunacy.
I have a close friend that is triple vaxed, yet he is still in full pandemic mode.  He works, and that is about it.  He thinks I'm nuts (Which may be true).   Reality seems to be that a version of the Virus is going to be around for a while.  Getting vaxed and living life rather normally may be the best way to go.  I'm going to assert for some, the virus has provided an excuse to stay holed up and still be considered in the spectrum of normal.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 22, 2021, 09:22:31 AM
I have a close friend that is triple vaxed, yet he is still in full pandemic mode.  He works, and that is about it.  He thinks I'm nuts (Which may be true).   Reality seems to be that a version of the Virus is going to be around for a while.  Getting vaxed and living life rather normally may be the best way to go.  I'm going to assert for some, the virus has provided an excuse to stay holed up and still be considered in the spectrum of normal.

Fathertime!

Well this recent small scale study out shows that if you do have natural immunity you're not bad off against the virus though I guess that would be kind of an obvious conclusion if you have natural immunity lol:

http://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

I think you're right though FT, there comes a time when there's the need to just get on with our lives. That's not to say necessarily not to take precautions, a bit of social distancing and mask wearing but end of the day life isn't forever for any if us here, might be kind of concerning if it was. For me while modern medicine tends to improve quality of life in old age I have to say that really old age isn't something that I would look forward to. Seeing images of frail old peeps shuffling around on Zimmer frames is something I don't think I would be all that keen to stick around for. So while I'm a fair way from that at present time can go quick and it's not something I'm anxious to hold onto life to get to.

My guess is that the Omicron wave may hopefully be the last wave where we have to keep our heads down then anything after will hopefully be even more milder that it'll pose a threat to virtually no one.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 22, 2021, 11:00:42 AM
Ukraine has just detected first case of Omicron virus:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-reports-its-first-case-omicron-coronavirus-variant-2021-12-18/

I'm kind of hoping after Omicron passes milder still variants will pop up and I'll be able to get out there this year. Hopefully Russian tanks won't stop me either :D
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: GQBlues on December 24, 2021, 09:25:43 AM
COVID, CDC, mandates, air travel, lies, incompetent administration, protecting Americans, HEPA filters, masks and the silly boogeyman droplets… the truth behind the cocktail of Liberal BS many live by:

http://youtu.be/ve4JZRGkrHU

Where the heck Kamala Harris is in all of these. She still (likely) hasn’t spent the required time on the borders for proper assessment and management.

Who voted for these idiots?
Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on December 30, 2021, 01:59:01 PM
(http://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/12/918/516/cartoon-12.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: Boethius on December 30, 2021, 02:02:58 PM
Here's a website devoted to those who view messages on COVID as fear -

http://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/ (http://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/)

How are the Democrats spreading fear?  Is saying hospitals are full of people with COVID spreading fear?  Is suggesting people be vaccinated and wear masks to minimize their risk of becoming ill, and possibly dying from COVID spreading fear?

Note - Asking as I don't understand this, not as an argument.
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on December 31, 2021, 04:53:54 AM
http://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211224/first-omicron-death-in-u-s-was-reinfection

Quote
Dec. 24. 2021 -- The first confirmed death from the Omicron variant in the U.S. was a reinfection.

The man, who was in his 50s and lived in Harris County, Texas, was unvaccinated and had previously been infected with COVID-19. He recently contracted the virus again, and it was confirmed as the Omicron variant.

Harris County health officials also said he faced a higher risk for severe complications because of underlying health conditions and being unvaccinated.


Note - Asking as I don't understand this, not as an argument.

There is a lot we don't understand about this virus, and an infinite amount we don't understand about people.

Quote
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Albert Einstein

Title: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: 2tallbill on January 04, 2022, 04:21:05 PM
There is a lot we don't understand about this virus, and an infinite amount we
don't understand about people.

Siamo d'accordo
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on January 05, 2022, 03:24:53 AM
Siamo d'accordo

Bravo!
Title: Re: Vaccines for Travelling Abroad
Post by: BC on January 05, 2022, 11:45:53 AM
Quote
A study of more than 40,000 pregnant women finds no increased risk of preterm or small-for-gestational-age births among babies delivered by women who received COVID-19 vaccines.

The report, which includes data from Bloomington-based HealthPartners, follows a September study from the same research group that found pregnant women vaccinated against COVID-19 did not see an increased risk of miscarriages.
http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-study-provides-more-evidence-of-covid-19-vaccine-safety-for-pregnant-women/600132573/

Full study: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101e1.htm?s_cid=mm7101e1_w