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Author Topic: The Economic Situation Where You Are  (Read 17880 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2021, 01:55:14 PM »
The French can't count..it's now down to 27 died.

Well decided to join UKIP today, meant digging into my pocket for £30 for a year's membership but I decided this problem has been left to slide too long and unless action is taken with the rising numbers making their way here society will be in a hell of a state in which to live if things are allowed to carry on. From the noises the Tories are making I can't see them doing anything effective which means if we want anything to happen then UKIP are the only ones likely at present to do so. Reading their stuff on their website it sounded like the right direction needed:

http://www.ukip.org/ukip-policies/policy-immigration

Farage sounds reluctant to get involved at the moment and not sure if he will this time, possibly he might right before the next General Election probably in 2024 but until then if he does I think UKIP are the only ones likely to impact anything. If the Tories see their support slumping at the polls in favour of UKIP then they might start to see the need to take more direct action. There are a few by-elections coming up the most recent being on the 2nd December in Old Bexley and Sidcup so with recent events hopefully the electorate their will swing towards UKIP. I can't see many people in Kent being happy with the recent bombing up in Liverpool or all the migrant crossings happening over in their county.

Although I'm not intending to get prominently involved I think if enough people come out in support and make a contribution things should start to turn in our favour just like they did with Brexit :)
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline BC

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2021, 02:10:30 PM »
You seem worried about someone entering the country that might be willing to work harder than yourself.  God forbid they might earn more than you do.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2021, 02:17:55 PM »
You seem worried about someone entering the country that might be willing to work harder than yourself.  God forbid they might earn more than you do.

They don't have that right to work here in the first place BC. Should I invite myself into the US, ignore their immigration process and instead state that I am willing to work hard so that means I can jump in front of all of those following the legal immigration process and move straight to work thereby depriving US citizens of work?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2021, 03:27:02 PM »
You seem worried about someone entering the country that might be willing to work harder than yourself.  God forbid they might earn more than you do.


You don't seem to umderstand the concept of ILLEGAL immigration.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Rosco

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2021, 04:11:55 PM »
You seem worried about someone entering the country that might be willing to work harder than yourself.  God forbid they might earn more than you do.

Lol

If everyone was so naive, we’d have more problems than we do today. I think intentionally fudging the lines between legal and illegal immigration is some top class trolling.

Offline BC

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2021, 10:06:05 PM »
Rosco,

did you read the link Trench provided?

Offline John Gaunt

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2021, 10:58:38 PM »
You seem worried about someone entering the country that might be willing to work harder than yourself.  God forbid they might earn more than you do.

All the ‘illegal’ migrants will end up working in the black economy for slave wages.
So not really a valid comparison.

Illegal migration is threatening the foundations of our societies. It needs to stop.

Offline BC

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2021, 02:17:15 AM »
JG,

and how do UKIP Policies stop illegal immigration when it is aimed at stopping legal immigration with a zero net policy?  Seems this would only drive more to immigrate illegally.

Quote
British citizens will be expected to marry from within the British population if they wish to live in Britain.

Cute. Ought to call this the Trenchie Law. Now that he's joined up, he'll have to renounce his fantasy of finding a beautiful, subservient woman overseas.  Hypocrisy at its very best.

Not one mention in the manifesto of dramatically increased controls, higher mandatory fines and incarceration of employers that hire on illegal workers or pay substandard wages that I can see.  How many are caught nowadays? Only 10 -20 per month, with only fines and averaging 15k per worker or such?

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2021, 04:04:43 AM »
JG,

and how do UKIP Policies stop illegal immigration when it is aimed at stopping legal immigration with a zero net policy?  Seems this would only drive more to immigrate illegally.

Cute. Ought to call this the Trenchie Law. Now that he's joined up, he'll have to renounce his fantasy of finding a beautiful, subservient woman overseas.  Hypocrisy at its very best.

Not one mention in the manifesto of dramatically increased controls, higher mandatory fines and incarceration of employers that hire on illegal workers or pay substandard wages that I can see.  How many are caught nowadays? Only 10 -20 per month, with only fines and averaging 15k per worker or such?

I'll marry her in Ukraine and just fly in for some hot raunchy sex every so often. She can stay there and me here that way I won't have her telling me what to do ;D

Seriously though it's not really UKIP's main thrust, they really mean more marriages from India & Pakistan where it can lead to a daisy chain of people coming into the country rather than based on skills and expertise. Most UK guys will be able to find ways to make an overseas relationship in the FSU work.

On the asylum front there is a difference in my mind between people that are genuinely desperately in need and those that are greedy and led by their own stupidity. Theresa May agreed to accept genuine Asylum seekers from Syria and the like, mostly children classed as vulnerable assessed out there as being in need, that's fair enough so long as they return afterwards. What we have here though is a load of economic illegal immigrants led by their own greed and stupidity not genuine Asylum seekers. Think about it, they come from a country where they apparently fear for their life to then no longer have any fear for their life on a dangerous channel crossing on unsafe inflatable dingies some crossing in winter with icy cold water??? Doesn't make sense does it. Especially not when they have the safety of France and numerous other EU countries through which they passed but would rather risk their lives instead. Hence they aren't asylum seekers as they claim they are really just economic illegal immigrants falsely claiming asylum.

The only way to clear this mess up is to do as UKIP state and ditch all the obsolete ridiculous agreements we've signed up to. It would be the best for all around.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2021, 04:52:16 AM »
All the ‘illegal’ migrants will end up working in the black economy for slave wages.
So not really a valid comparison.

Illegal migration is threatening the foundations of our societies. It needs to stop.


To be fair to BC some of these illegal immigrants may well earn more money than Trench and make a lucrative living here working hard .... drug dealing....sex trafficking....people smuggling...shoplifting.....pickpocketing.....car ringing....
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 05:15:38 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline BC

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2021, 12:06:01 PM »
Chelseaboy,

sure, I understand some may be involved in illegal money making opportunities, as are citizens that live in our respective countries.  Kinda contrary though as most are trying to fly 'under the radar'.

A host of studies are available, example http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

Might be worth your while to take a peek.

Politics is like any other product.  A market has to be created to produce good sales.  Note much information is simply unknown, but politics still spout a sales pitch using the lack of information as a selling point.  Argumentum ad ignorantium is quite effective and finds resonance by instilling fear.

Take for example JG's statement:

Quote
All the ‘illegal’ migrants will end up working in the black economy for slave wages.

The report I linked above states:

Quote
This study also found that access to irregular work depended on migrants’ ethnicity; and that some felt they were treated well by employers whilst others reported being paid below minimum wage, or being exploited, sometimes severely.

Ditto with complaints about housing, medical care etc.

Quote
Irregular migrants are not permitted to access most social security benefits, including housing benefits, and some public services in the UK, such as social housing and hospital-based healthcare.

My point was, and still is that the UKIP manifesto is about how to restrict legal immigration, and says, or does little regarding irregular immigration. They are different topics, but often intermingled.  That's the bait and switch 'sell'.

Anyhoo, Trench again fails to put money where his mouth is.


Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2021, 03:25:15 AM »

My point was, and still is that the UKIP manifesto is about how to restrict legal immigration, and says, or does little regarding irregular immigration. They are different topics, but often intermingled.  That's the bait and switch 'sell'.

Anyhoo, Trench again fails to put money where his mouth is.

I paid to join UKIP as a member, I even bought a few knick naks in their shop to help support the cause, so I would hardly say that I haven't put my money where my mouth is.

UKIP as I understand it is about restricting or stopping legal immigration and illegal immigration. The latter is evident in the link I posted up. Legal immigration needs to be gotten under control as there is now a severe shortage of housing in this country so to be responsible and decent to people we shouldn't be adding loads of people to the population. Slot of those people come in legally as said in a daisy chain fashion from India and Pakistan through family ties, i.e one gets over here and the rest follow. I personally don't have anything against people from India or Pakistan or any part of the world based on race but we just don't have the housing available to support such a system.

The Tories have in addition let in 15,000 Afghans and likely 300,000 plus Hong Kongers, again that is going to be a real concern for housing and after we were supposed to take back control of our borders it seems a foolish move. Hong Kong as a territory we left back in the nineties so there was no reason to offer such a immigration offer now other than taking issue with China. Afghanistan there were way more people that apparently qualified for refuge as a result of helping UK forces than their should have been in my opinion. I was under the impression than it would be a few hundred of those that were invaluable over a long period to the Allies instead it looks like anyone who passed on the tinyest but of info or had some loose connection got in.

So all in all we're getting in a real mess here, apparently 12,000 of the 15,000 Afghans we took in are still in hotels as our housing shortage problem is so accute, I think you can imagine how much that is costing UK taxpayers, all because our government opened their trap too quickly to take them in same with the Hong Kongers. Theoretically they are legally but it was an irresponsible move on the part of our government I believe. So we basically need some reputation from a party like UKIP in government to hold them to account and give a voice their against such silly moves plus obviously sort out the situation as a whole.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline BC

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2021, 05:29:51 AM »
Do you make more than the personal allowance of £12,570, or enough so that you can say your feelings of having to contribute a lot to support legal immigrants is really justified?

Or do you, like illegal immigrants, fudge a bit here and there to pay less taxes?

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2021, 07:30:49 AM »
Do you make more than the personal allowance of £12,570, or enough so that you can say your feelings of having to contribute a lot to support legal immigrants is really justified?

Or do you, like illegal immigrants, fudge a bit here and there to pay less taxes?

I earn more than the personal allowance and hence pay a small amount of income tax, I also pay sone national insurance tax, plus VAT on anything I buy, plus I pay council tax. I pay the taxes at the rate I'm expected to pay by the UK government.

Tax though for me isn't an issue in relation to illegal immigrants, I'm not sure why you bring it up. For me illegal immigration is messing up society and I have to live in this society along with family and fellow countrymen & women. As I stated there is a severe housing shortage in the UK, there is then the issue of employment and pay. The more illegal migrants that come in the less housing there is, the less employment for legal citizens there may be and the lower pay can become and yes why would I want to pay anything extra in tax for that. There is also the issue of culture, while I don't mind the odd few people from here or there, why do I want to live in a society where people are all from anywhere and the culture I knew and could relate to no longer exists. It's about quality of life BC, if people just satisfy themselves where they go they often don't care about the place just the money it's why most of them try to come here. They don't care if they end up making the place they go an unbearable nightmare for it citizens, where squalid accomodation is rented out at exorbitant costs, work may become hard to come by then if you do it's very low pay for a lot of hard work and where everyone is crambed in and doesn't feel they can relate to the other cultures around them, may even find them hostile and difficult to live with. Not a nice vision of a place to live life is it?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Sailor291

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2021, 08:43:21 AM »
I earn more than the personal allowance and hence pay a small amount of income tax, I also pay sone national insurance tax, plus VAT on anything I buy, plus I pay council tax. I pay the taxes at the rate I'm expected to pay by the UK government.

Tax though for me isn't an issue in relation to illegal immigrants, I'm not sure why you bring it up. For me illegal immigration is messing up society and I have to live in this society along with family and fellow countrymen & women. As I stated there is a severe housing shortage in the UK, there is then the issue of employment and pay. The more illegal migrants that come in the less housing there is, the less employment for legal citizens there may be and the lower pay can become and yes why would I want to pay anything extra in tax for that. There is also the issue of culture, while I don't mind the odd few people from here or there, why do I want to live in a society where people are all from anywhere and the culture I knew and could relate to no longer exists. It's about quality of life BC, if people just satisfy themselves where they go they often don't care about the place just the money it's why most of them try to come here. They don't care if they end up making the place they go an unbearable nightmare for it citizens, where squalid accomodation is rented out at exorbitant costs, work may become hard to come by then if you do it's very low pay for a lot of hard work and where everyone is crambed in and doesn't feel they can relate to the other cultures around them, may even find them hostile and difficult to live with. Not a nice vision of a place to live life is it?


help me out here, I hear Brits say things about the Council all the time.  Just exactly what is that?  Is it like the City Council or is it a different type of entity?

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2021, 09:24:53 AM »

help me out here, I hear Brits say things about the Council all the time.  Just exactly what is that?  Is it like the City Council or is it a different type of entity?

Pretty much all councils in the UK are based in a town or city, sometimes they just cover the city or just part of a city district such as is the case in London. Other times they can represent the immediate locality the town and it's suburbs. More recently some councils in the UK have amalgumated to cover two or even three towns to attempt to cut down on running costs by becoming more efficient. Then there are done councils that cover a whole county or part of a county often in more rural areas in the country at large.

All councils though are of the same level pretty much to one another, they are all there to run essential services in the area they cover and potentially sort out any problems, etc. They all charge council tax on householders to do this, council tax that is generally paid monthly based on value of your property at last government valuation, often it's around £100 or more a month depending upon where you live in the country, value of your property in comparison to value of other properties locally in the form of council tax banding, the higher the property value band the higher the tax you pay per month.
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Offline Sailor291

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2021, 12:12:01 PM »
So sort of like our city government but probably some differences.  The city here provides water, sewer, sanitation, police, fire, ambulance, animal control, etc. 

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2021, 12:28:23 PM »
So sort of like our city government but probably some differences.  The city here provides water, sewer, sanitation, police, fire, ambulance, animal control, etc.

Yep it's much the same as that really.
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Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2021, 02:10:52 PM »
Yep it's much the same as that really.

I assume that they let non property owners vote for these councils?
Do they also institute rent control(s)?

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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2021, 05:56:15 PM »
I assume that they let non property owners vote for these councils?
Do they also institute rent control(s)?

Indeed, anyone over the age of 18 can vote in local Council Elections to choose Councillors. Just the same as anyone over 18 can vote in General Elections. Many Councillors from the various parties (or Independents) often end up later standing as an MP.

I'm not aware of any rent controls in the UK. I think they have rent controls in some places in Ireland. Landlords in the UK can basically charge what they like so long as they can find Tenants willing to pay it.

A small amount of Council Housing still exists where Council Tenants can get a reduced rate of say up to a third of their rent, if they are unemployed the housing benefit will pay the rent anyway though but is capped to stop those in private accomodation renting a real swanky pad. Housing Associations (private companies housing the poor) tend to have taken over from council housing in the recent couple of decades though.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #70 on: November 28, 2021, 02:15:07 AM »
The upcoming Old Bexley and Sidcup by-election for their new MP could be an interesting one, plenty of horses in the race and no one assured a victory this time it seems:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59435987.amp

These are the results from the 2017 General Election:

http://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2017-06-08/results/Location/Constituency/Old%20Bexley%20and%20Sidcup

That was the General Election Theresa May fought, in that seat at least the Tories walk away with an easy win that time.

However this was the result in the 2015 General Election:

http://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2015-05-07/Results/Location/Constituency/Old%20Bexley%20and%20Sidcup/

As we can see UKIP did a lot better in that General Election. That Election was fought with David Cameron as leader before the 2016 Brexit Referendum.

This time many more horses in the race to split the vote. Recent events of the Liverpool bombing and illegal migrant crossings are ideal timings for UKIP to capitalise on here. Reform UK may do quite well also they did in the Welsh Elections earlier in the year better than UKIP in fact but a different area and without as much of an illegal immigration issue at the time.

The MP that held the Old Bexley and Sidcup seat was also well thought of by his constituents at large apparently so him no longer being their candidate due to his passing could see the Tories fall away a lot in votes also. So it could really be an interesting outcome come 2nd Dec, that or possibly fizzle out into a non event is always a possibility also I guess.


The 2019 General Election result is somewhat interesting also in this constitutency seat:

http://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3669/election/397

That one was with Boris Johnson as party leader held as a result of impasse in Parliament as a result of the Government being pretty much a hung parliament after Theresa May's 2017 General Election. Far fewer candidates contesting the seat this time most notably UKIP are absent as the Tory MP James Brokenshire was a Brexit supporting MP they tend not to field candidates against them unless possibly they feel the Tory Party policy as a whole isn't what it should be. So he increased his majority partly as a result of UKIP not contesting the seat. So it helps to show what a difference it can make if the seat is contested by other candidates which the electorate are open to I think.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 02:24:25 AM by Trenchcoat »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2022, 10:21:01 PM »
Well the Tories won the old Bexley by election and the Lib Dems the following one. Next up is Southend where the MP was stabbed to death by a deranged failed asylum seeker. Possibly UKIP might so better given the background in that one it's due early February.

In the old Bexley by-election the Remain EU candidate did badly losing the deposit (of money) they had paid. It at least looks like that now is a truely lost cause with I hope no chance of us every rejoining the EU. Their candidate got less than 1 percent of the vote 0.6 or something it was.

Anyhow to update we now seem in a very favourable employment situation here in the UK. Not only are we doing better than the EU on employment but there are plenty of jobs around :) This recent article details the situation:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1551806/UK-unemployment-rate-vs-EU-evg/amp

Basically we've benefitted from closing our doors to the constant upward immigration from Eastern Europe. It means that now it's possible to look online and find jobs and more to the point ones that are decent enough in some way. That bodes well for us British workers in my book as hopefully wages in real terms will start to rise a bit as Employers seek to entice workers not only that but working conditions potentially too. Before Employers had the whip had and could expect a lot of work for very little pay now a more reasonable situation seems to be developing, Brexit Britain working at last :)

Housing of course has been saved from running out completely as well, there's still a housing situation and housing is still very much in demand but it's stopped from being exhausted completely even if there is currently not a lot of stuff on the market.

Overall given the virus and adjusting to the changed circumstances that naturally come with change such as Brexit we seem to be doing pretty well. I'm certainly bwell pleased we left the EU, I think we would be suffering intolerably had we not by now, mass homelessness, makeshift housing/caravans, too few jobs, little chance of better pay, wait for the vaccines, etc.

Still more to do, more trade deals to sign and the NI situation to iron out but that should no doubt hopefully come. Illegal channel crossing becoming a big issue so more work to be done there. Given the present situation though I'm pretty pleased we are no longer dominated by the EU telling us what to do and having power over us. The current Ukraine situation I think is better that we are not tied to the EU response but can speak with our own voice on that matter.

Overall I'm pretty pleased we got our of the EU and economically we are already seemingly better of for it :)
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2022, 03:22:25 PM »
Perhaps the solution Trench is looking for could be found with a NFT meta-girlfriend. No bothers with immigration, style of dressing, support, ect.

http://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/meta-girlfriends-nft

Want to pay hard cash for customizable avatars of slender, perfectly coiffed cartoon girls that you can see ‘exclusive’ nudes of? Welcome to the latest wrinkle in the bonkers world of NFTs

On its face, one of the newest NFTs (non-fungible tokens) on the Ethereum network is innocuous enough: Avatars of women, each adorned with differing hairstyles, makeup and clothing, gazing ahead with a neutral expression. But then you realize the NFTs are dubbed “Meta Girlfriends,” and the underlying philosophy of the project becomes a little clearer.

“Meta Girlfriends represent the mature side of NFT Art,” the homepage boasts. “They are randomly generated using over 600 traits, across 20 categories, to guarantee each one comes with a unique personality.”
Good women are not cheap
Cheap women are not good
(but they can be a lot of fun)

Offline Muzh

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2022, 12:10:21 PM »
Here in California I'm seeing a lot more wealth/spending then I would have expected, given the harder times.  My industry is doing well, in addition many people with small businesses have more time to devote to the business due to other travel and leisure options being cut off. 

Fathertime!


FT, I see bad habits don't change. It is thAn, not thEn.


I've been retired for 6 years and I make more now thAn when I was working.  :P
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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Re: The Economic Situation Where You Are
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2022, 12:23:49 PM »
That's just the way it is. Somethings will never change. (on this list)


I'd love to see the massive deportation of all those "illegal" immigrants, specifically here in the US, and then watch the economy take a downward spiral. Actually, see the crops rot on the fields. Hotels close due to lack of staffing. Even the horse races come to an abrupt close. And on and on.


Why don't enforce the law? Or is it because big business has too much invested in cheap labor and they deploy their armies of lobbyists to stem the tide of "illegal" immigration?


Be careful what you wish. You might get it.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

 

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