My girl and our issues

[cameraguymn]

So last year I met this beautiful woman. She's late 20's with a young child. I've seen her a few times in Ukraine. Due to the pandemic she's not working so I am paying for her rent and expenses.

We are a couple in truth but it is difficult finding time to videochat or chat with her on whatsapp. I am thinking she's not working so how busy can she be. I message her 5 pm her time and she's coooking and tell her to message me when she's free. I wait and wait and about 10ish I message her and by that time she's tire, had a headache or something. This has happened more than a few times to become an obvious pattern. I tell her about this and even ask if there is someone else. I tell her from my vantage point it is easy for me to believe that.

She has a very sweet disposition. Very innocent and kind. I understand people may mask their true self but I genuinely believe she is a good person. I've been around the block so I feel I can tell when someone is faking.

I understand she is very naive and we have some cultural differences. I told her it would be nice to get a little message if just so say good night or good morning. When we first were getting to know each other we message quite a bit and videochatted a dozen times before we met in person. After our meeting, these messages and videochats slowed down quite a bit. And most of the time there is some sort of excuse, reason or accident that prevents us from chatting. We chat less than I'd like and our conversations are now very superficial.

There is a big disconnect because it is obvious our communication has become less and less after we committed to each other. I have shared with her these feelings but she assures me there is no other person and genuinely laughs at that notion.  She simply says it is a coincidence and that explains to me her daily schedule. When we meet and have our little vacations she does take a while to get ready so our days are spent preparing then lunch then back to rest then dinner then maybe an activity so it is plausible.

If she didn't have a child and if I didn't have such a close relationship with her daughter I would not believe her at all because there simply is so much time where she could be talking to me. She either is really slow during the day, has little incidents happen to her often or she's just doesn't try enough.

Our time between dinner and bedtime I feel it shouldn't take her 4 hours to clean up and help her daughter. It actually could but I've asked her to make time for me so one or two of those nights she can make accommodations. I guess I'm trying to make excuses for her but as we speak, videochat less and less I feel I'm actually not missing her. So that's a bad sign.

Short story: she's unemployed has a child and isn't proactive to communicate with me and when I reach out she's often busy with this or that so I feel there is something that's up.

We've taken a pause and she's still confused why I'm disappointed/irked why she is not communicating with me as much. I'm kinda glad she didn't have her passport so we have not started the K1 visa last year. And that is another issue it has been almost 10 months and she still hasn't gotten it.

When we talk it is fine. I'm rather incoherent with this narrative since there's so much going on but I wonder if others have gone through the same thing. I've literally gone for over a week without communicating with her. I usually am proactive and send her a message "hi, how are you doing" etc but one time I wanted to see how long it would go before she got the hint. Nearly 10 then I actually gave up and messaged her.

Maybe she's so secure in our relationship she doesn't feel the need to message me? When we do talk it's like nothing is going on nothing bad. But I'm not liking things. And sadly I don't miss not talking to her. This could be the end. I'm dreading having to end things and obviously putting her in a financial bind.

Honestly I could marry her and live with her. But with my last trip I feel there is something missing. That spark. Those deep talks. Maybe we just need a trip the two of us without the child. That is my last hope unless Putin invades Ukraine.

[fathertime]

Obviously, she is intentionally putting you off.  Maybe she is bored with all the chatting.... maybe everything has already been said for now.   She may have other things she would prefer to do.    Maybe it is too much time in this stage of the relationship.   

Fathertime! 

[Boethius]

There are many ways to describe Ukrainian women.  "Naive" is not one of them, particularly a woman with a child. 

[Chelseaboy]

Well i wouldn't be giving rent and expenses to an out of work woman who can't find the time/be bothered to communicate with me.


I think her attitude is disrepectful.

[Trenchcoat]

CG you're being screwed but you don't want to believe what in your heart of hearts is telling you. There are a lot of signs here that tell you this relationship has gone south, her lack of interest in communication, the lengthy time she takes to get ready. Could it be that she is taking so long to get ready as she doesn't want to spend time with you even while with her? That she would rather spend it with her child. I know Ukrainian women can take a fair while to get ready and with a kid no doubt extra, but four hours???

I think you made a mistake in paying for her from the outset CG and that is where your relationship started to go south. It's difficult I know in such circumstances to turn your back on a girl who at the time no doubt seemed into you, but while many are struggling out there normally Ukrainians get by. The girl may seem sweet and no doubt is but that doesn't mean that she is not party to Ukrainian culture. A lot of people don't understand Ukrainian relationship culture, I didn't. It's why I now think that chances of a successful relationship are probably way higher if you are actually out there in a relationship with a girl. To my mind a lot but not all Ukrainian women don't really view a guy as a love/chemistry issue, a few will do and get into a relationship on that basis. A lot I believe are open to many a guy who has other stuff to offer, primarily a provider relationship. I believe Ukrainian women regard many a man as a possible match whether chemistry or not, chemistry if course is nice but the realities of finding a partner who can provide and be capable of providing for family in a not great economy obviously holds importance.

So to my mind yours was probably the provider type of relationship with a kid she especially needed that plus with a pandemic even more so. Ukrainian girls are adept at showing interest to a guy who is a provider, they show their admiration in my view. That I believe can make for a relationship, marriage etc but not necessarily a good one. She won't ever really love you like as if she had physical attraction but she might come to care for you. I think where it went wrong for you was when you started giving money without being present, over time her respect for you went downhill fast, that's what screwed up the relationship. Whether there is some other guy involved is neither here nor there, her respect for you is gone either way. Obviously being a single woman with a kid possibly she might be of low morals, up for fun, goes along with anything, who knows.

Anyhow, once a relationship is blown it's basically a goner. I think a lot of relationships fail with foreigners as they don't understand the mindset, like I say I didn't. Essentially if you're going to be a provider you really have to be present while providing so the girl associates the providing with you. If you provide while not present then she won't see the two as linked and no need to bother with you much. That's not to say you're guaranteed a successful relationship while present and providing, I've seen that, that is not necessarily the case but providing to such a large degree and not being present is a recipe for disaster I think.

Well anyway you might as well move on from this one lesson learned and have another try all the wiser from what you've learned. Whether you want to wait and see if the Russians invade in a few days as that may tie things up for you or give her a bit of notice of ending payments is up to you. Were you paying the apartment bill direct or just giving her the money?

[GQBlues]

CG-

Your case speaks volumes in support of what I’ve been saying all along. The ‘get-to-know’ period should happen AFTER your first visit, NOT before. It matters none whether you’re a WOVO or otherwise.

If you’re going to continue with this, you desperately need to hone your social interaction skill and recognition quite a bit. You are sorely lacking as evidenced in your post above.

While you can take comfort that you likely are in the very vast majority to fall in this situation within the pangs of the MOB, but like many others like you, just learn from it. Don’t let your emotions and/or desperation guide your way in this adventure.

[cameraguymn]

I suppose if it looks, smells and acts like a pig it is a pig.

She is pretty naive through our interactions and her descriptions of her past relationships that can be true of her. She's only had two major relationships.

I've been sending her money monthly after we met and committed to each other. When we meet our time is fun and filled with kindess but sometimes having her daughter around is tough to really have serious conversation. We are looking towards a vacation alone and that might be my moment to really see if we can make this work.

[ML]

The naive part about her is that she cannot believe she found such a fool as you. 

She thought it would be much harder to achieve.

It's actually quite easy to achieve with many WM.

My heart breaks for you.

[cameraguymn]

I hear you. It is not quite that cut and dry but I have been letting her know as we go along this journey. Just so hard to let go of a beautiful woman and this is her only flaw. But I'm actually not a victim too. For some time after this realization, I've been talking to other women so I do have plan b, c, d. Once I told her we needed to pause and take a step back my guilt has subsided.

[John Gaunt]

CG you're being screwed but you don't want to believe what in your heart of hearts is telling you. There are a lot of signs here that tell you this relationship has gone south, her lack of interest in communication, the lengthy time she takes to get ready. Could it be that she is taking so long to get ready as she doesn't want to spend time with you even while with her? That she would rather spend it with her child. I know Ukrainian women can take a fair while to get ready and with a kid no doubt extra, but four hours???

I think you made a mistake in paying for her from the outset CG and that is where your relationship started to go south. It's difficult I know in such circumstances to turn your back on a girl who at the time no doubt seemed into you, but while many are struggling out there normally Ukrainians get by. The girl may seem sweet and no doubt is but that doesn't mean that she is not party to Ukrainian culture. A lot of people don't understand Ukrainian relationship culture, I didn't.

And you do now?

That’s the biggest pile of hogwash I’ve heard you come out with.
You’re a guy who has no real world experience of meeting and forming relationships with women (and don’t say you had a relationship with Kherson girl, you didn’t) and spends his time endlessly theorizing and fantasizing.

Every post of yours should come with a warning label: Reader, beware.

 It's why I now think that chances of a successful relationship are probably way higher if you are actually out there in a relationship with a girl. To my mind a lot but not all Ukrainian women don't really view a guy as a love/chemistry issue, a few will do and get into a relationship on that basis. A lot I believe are open to many a guy who has other stuff to offer, primarily a provider relationship. I believe Ukrainian women regard many a man as a possible match whether chemistry or not, chemistry if course is nice but the realities of finding a partner who can provide and be capable of providing for family in a not great economy obviously holds importance.

So to my mind yours was probably the provider type of relationship with a kid she especially needed that plus with a pandemic even more so. Ukrainian girls are adept at showing interest to a guy who is a provider, they show their admiration in my view. That I believe can make for a relationship, marriage etc but not necessarily a good one. She won't ever really love you like as if she had physical attraction but she might come to care for you. I think where it went wrong for you was when you started giving money without being present, over time her respect for you went downhill fast, that's what screwed up the relationship. Whether there is some other guy involved is neither here nor there, her respect for you is gone either way. Obviously being a single woman with a kid possibly she might be of low morals, up for fun, goes along with anything, who knows.

And now you’re slut shaming someone you know nothing about.,
 Really, you have no boundaries and if anything, this line of yours is an insight into your warped mind. A pretty disgusting sight, I might add.

Anyhow, once a relationship is blown it's basically a goner. I think a lot of relationships fail with foreigners as they don't understand the mindset, like I say I didn't. Essentially if you're going to be a provider you really have to be present while providing so the girl associates the providing with you. If you provide while not present then she won't see the two as linked and no need to bother with you much. That's not to say you're guaranteed a successful relationship while present and providing, I've seen that, that is not necessarily the case but providing to such a large degree and not being present is a recipe for disaster I think.

Trench, the provider??? We know how that’s gonna work on your Scrooge income.

Well anyway you might as well move on from this one lesson learned and have another try all the wiser from what you've learned. Whether you want to wait and see if the Russians invade in a few days as that may tie things up for you or give her a bit of notice of ending payments is up to you. Were you paying the apartment bill direct or just giving her the money?

You should follow your own advice and just move on from searching for a woman, anywhere.
Think of all those (few) pounds you’ll save. 

[Trenchcoat]

And you do now?

That’s the biggest pile of hogwash I’ve heard you come out with.
You’re a guy who has no real world experience of meeting and forming relationships with women (and don’t say you had a relationship with Kherson girl, you didn’t) and spends his time endlessly theorizing and fantasizing.

I will give you that JG, even when I was with her I was never really with her, I realize that now. I've relooked over a lot of material on Ukraine and I've got a pretty good picture as to the situation with regards to International dating out there.

[Trenchcoat]

I suppose if it looks, smells and acts like a pig it is a pig.

She is pretty naive through our interactions and her descriptions of her past relationships that can be true of her. She's only had two major relationships.

I've been sending her money monthly after we met and committed to each other. When we meet our time is fun and filled with kindess but sometimes having her daughter around is tough to really have serious conversation. We are looking towards a vacation alone and that might be my moment to really see if we can make this work.

Sorry to unload on you CG but I fear you may be the one who is naive in the relationship. I don't know how much money you are sending her? Her apartment could be one owned by the State (i.e free) or whatever, she may be getting money in from this and that, work she is not telling you about, etc. The thing is out there most western currency goes a long way as us westerners don't necessarily realise just how much we are giving them, a hundred bucks maybe nearly her wages for the month, so although women earn less that's a lot out there.

If she's a pretty girl as in model like she will likely have many guys interested out there. If you're giving her money odds are she is buying nice clothes with them that will help her look even nicer and suitable for a more affluent local guy - that is her likely target. I don't know old you are, but I'm guessing a fair bit older than her. I'll be honest most girls out there want a guy around their own age, and most want a local guy and along with that a guy who is at least somewhat affluent. Sone may even figure if they can get nice clothes and stuff of a foreign guy, some hard currency stashed then they have what they want and then happy to go with a local guy who ordinarily might struggle to get that. Many of the girls who do International dating do so just to get stuff so that's why they don't mind an older guy. Not always clothes but sometimes Visa's, etc. I'm not saying older guys haven't gotten with significantly older guys but realise a lot of girls are in the make, for some they may even see it as a laugh.

I don't see the relationship working. I think what you are asking is for closure, you don't want to walk away unless you see it's can't go any further. You also don't like to let a beautiful girl go who you are having fun with when you are there, I get that. It's again why I think it's best to have the relationship in Ukraine, I mean why get her into the country just to find out that she uses you as a visa mule then upgrades. Why have all this bs about her telling you how things are there. If you were with her in Ukraine you wouldn't have any if that, you would find out pretty soon along the way if she wants to be with you for real, you would be in control of apartment, expenses, etc. If I were you I would consider if you could get independent income and live out there, so long as the Russians don't invade of course. It's what I intend to do.

The thing is to be fair to a FSW done guy flying in and out just really isn't Invested in the relationship in the emotional sense so that going kind of breed bad behaviour. A lot of Ukrainian women just see foreign men and have heard the tales of how well you can do our of them and they are happy to get there hands on sone of it, they think foreign man = money. I'm not saying any of this to put you off but there's a way to play the game and a way to not play it I have realised.

[Trenchcoat]

Maybe she's so secure in our relationship she doesn't feel the need to message me?

Really? You think? CG you must be the man!!!

Read back over what you have written here CG and look at the logic of it, you really think that is the case?

I think you are picking up subconsciously that she is not into you but you don't want to really believe it, all of the signs. She's a pretty girl and you're smitten with that but even you are losing interest as your subconscious knows the real truth.

Odds are she won't take well with not having her child around for an outing, I could be wrong but they tend to come first in a relationship. It's all up to you CG what path you take but I personally think from what you have put that there's no go in the relationship.

[cameraguymn]

Hey hey I don't get all the hate towards Trench.

I think I am having a decent romance with this woman. The only thing and it is a big thing is that she's not proactive in communicating with me. But when we do talk it is good. Honestly, I might just be looking for a way out. I look for an amazing woman and within a few months I find a beautiful woman who speaks English well, has a graduate degree, a sweet personality and has a great relationship with her daughter. I might just want to play around a little more. Sometimes the pursuit is actually more fun than actually getting the prize.

This might be more to do with me. Actually, is it getting really easy to connect and meet women from Ukraine and Russia. I do believe the pandemic effect has lowered their inhibitions and standards. I was looking for 30's and I'm getting early 20's women. At my age I either get married or just play around for the rest of my life. Both options seems good right now but in truth no one wants to be alone in their old age. I hope our trip together in Bali will give our relationship some clarity and perhaps closure.

[cameraguymn]

I send her $500 per month to pay for all her expenses and she lives in a small town so her costs are lower. Speaking with many Ukrainians in Odesa and Kyiv many professional people are making $1,000-$1,500 per month. That so-called average $300 salary we all believe in doesn't pay the bills in Ukraine anymore.

[GQBlues]

Hey hey I don't get all the hate towards Trench.

I think I am having a decent romance with this woman. The only thing and it is a big thing is that she's not proactive in communicating with me. But when we do talk it is good. Honestly, I might just be looking for a way out. I look for an amazing woman and within a few months I find a beautiful woman who speaks English well, has a graduate degree, a sweet personality and has a great relationship with her daughter. I might just want to play around a little more. Sometimes the pursuit is actually more fun than actually getting the prize.

This might be more to do with me. Actually, is it getting really easy to connect and meet women from Ukraine and Russia. I do believe the pandemic effect has lowered their inhibitions and standards. I was looking for 30's and I'm getting early 20's women. At my age I either get married or just play around for the rest of my life. Both options seems good right now but in truth no one wants to be alone in their old age. I hope our trip together in Bali will give our relationship some clarity and perhaps closure.

You can do what you want. But the very least you can do is let the women know which or what your true motivation is. Otherwise, methinks its likely cheaper in Vegas.

[Steven1971]

CG you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. You are in the denial/bargaining stage at the moment. It's hard to let go, but everything you write says this woman isn't interested enough in you.

Yes, kids come first and are time consuming, but at best she is breadcrumbing you and you are sending her $500 a month for the privilege. At the age of 40 you are of an age where many Ukrainian women would be interested in you and not just those with kids. She is not your responsibility, you aren't married and the child isn't yours. Self care is not selfishness. There are other women who will show much more interest in you.

The whole point of looking for a wife in the FSU is that you have more choice than in the West. It's not a case of this woman or no one.

[Trenchcoat]

I send her $500 per month to pay for all her expenses and she lives in a small town so her costs are lower. Speaking with many Ukrainians in Odesa and Kyiv many professional people are making $1,000-$1,500 per month. That so-called average $300 salary we all believe in doesn't pay the bills in Ukraine anymore.

A $1000 a month is apparently a good wage out there from what I've heard. Someone who earns that is doing quite nicely for themselves. Professionals of course earn that sort of money rather than the working man out there.

$500 she will be doing quite nicely with that, you don't know what other money she is getting in. She will be eligible for support from the Ukrainian government for her kid, possibly claiming unemployment, etc, that money may not be a lot but it's something. In addition she may be working in the Black Economy, off the books so pays no tax. I think there was also a government work program at the beginning of the pandemic, Covid support, not a lot but possibly enough to get by.

Thing is CG without living with her you don't know what her life really is like, has she gotten into a relationship with a local guy who might be able to support her? does she play the field locally? Is her family able to support her? Who knows? Anything could be the case. I'm not trying to be mean here but I just don't think the fly in & out method is a good one. My guess is that she doesn't have any trouble paying the bills, I assume she managed before your relationship so the $500 you are giving her could well be extra on top of her paying her bills already.

[Trenchcoat]

Hey hey I don't get all the hate towards Trench.

I think I am having a decent romance with this woman. The only thing and it is a big thing is that she's not proactive in communicating with me. But when we do talk it is good. Honestly, I might just be looking for a way out. I look for an amazing woman and within a few months I find a beautiful woman who speaks English well, has a graduate degree, a sweet personality and has a great relationship with her daughter. I might just want to play around a little more. Sometimes the pursuit is actually more fun than actually getting the prize.

This might be more to do with me. Actually, is it getting really easy to connect and meet women from Ukraine and Russia. I do believe the pandemic effect has lowered their inhibitions and standards. I was looking for 30's and I'm getting early 20's women. At my age I either get married or just play around for the rest of my life. Both options seems good right now but in truth no one wants to be alone in their old age. I hope our trip together in Bali will give our relationship some clarity and perhaps closure.

CG thanks for the support I think what Stephen says is right and it's worth thinking on what he has said.

That you have paid for a trip to Bali with present problems and no doubt at your expense well I don't think it's a good move. The holiday will just entice her but as often said on here a holiday isn't real life so I don't see it solving anything.

That's you're getting girls in their twenties up I don't think is a good thing. The pandemic would be making many Ukrainians struggle, those girls are out for what they can get to from a foreign guy. At age 40 while if you have a lot of money you may be considered a good catch by a twenties girl how you go about it determines I think whether she will see you as a guy to get stuff off or a long term prospect. Unfortunately at the moment I think you are falling into the trap of a guy to get stuff off. You're being too willing to part with your cash and being taken for a ride. I just hope the sex is good What I've learnt is if you want a long term deal be more conservative with your money they will either respect you for it or they will be off. If they go off then you know that is all they were ever interested in.

A good book to read on Amazon as a kindle download is 'Odessa Dreams'. While it's about Anastasia Tours (when they did them) it is also a good insight into the mindset of many of the women in Ukraine that do International dating. I just kind of think you are using the wrong mindset at the moment and on a path to repeat the same mistake over and over for the time being. Giving these girls the impression you're another one of these foreigners that can be taken easily isn't doing you any favours I fear. I've learnt that you can't lose your head over these girls, always have a practical/logical mind behind any romance situation I believe is a good way to be now.

[Davo]

Here’s some perspective..... My relationship with a woman that’s been my main focus has fallen back into a friendship until we meet again..... There’s still flirting and affection in our correspondence..... She’s a busy woman with a career, children and a social life, but always has time for me..... When I message, she’ll reply in 5 minutes or less and rarely tells me she can’t chat..... She still shares pictures of her daily life, will actively engage and initiate conversation that’s diverse in subject and  rarely it’s just small talk.

If I was in the same situation as you and in an exclusive committed relationship, I’d walk away...... I might not be the most experienced member here, but one thing that I know is true to most FSU women is when they genuinely like you they go over and above to correspond with you at every chance they can...... In my case she could be shopping, helping with homework, cooking dinner, at a family event or snowed under at work...... she always makes an effort..... Even women I haven’t met in real life give me more emotional energy than you seem to be getting atm.

What’s the age gap between you?

[Boethius]

USD$500 is a lot for a small town in Ukraine.  Many Ukrainians pay no rent, because they're living in inherited or state apartments.  So, they pay for gas and electricity. 


An acquaintance of mine who is from Ukraine went back there in the fall of 2020.  She took 7 relatives out for dinner to a restaurant in L'viv.  The total bill, for eight people, with appetizers, entrees, and dessert, was CDN$40.  She brought back the restaurant receipt to show me.  So, this young woman is making bank off you.


When we had three children under 4, I cooked dinner, fed them, did dishes, let them play, bathed them, read them bedtime stories, and I usually stayed with each of them for a time until they fell asleep.  I worked a very demanding career, and I still had time for the better half after the children were in bed.


If a woman in her twenties doesn't have time for you, she is not really interested in you.  She is more interested in that $500 stipend, and even then, she's a bad "investment".

[Boethius]

Hey hey I don't get all the hate towards Trench.

I think I am having a decent romance with this woman. The only thing and it is a big thing is that she's not proactive in communicating with me. But when we do talk it is good. Honestly, I might just be looking for a way out. I look for an amazing woman and within a few months I find a beautiful woman who speaks English well, has a graduate degree, a sweet personality and has a great relationship with her daughter. I might just want to play around a little more. Sometimes the pursuit is actually more fun than actually getting the prize.

This might be more to do with me. Actually, is it getting really easy to connect and meet women from Ukraine and Russia. I do believe the pandemic effect has lowered their inhibitions and standards. I was looking for 30's and I'm getting early 20's women. At my age I either get married or just play around for the rest of my life. Both options seems good right now but in truth no one wants to be alone in their old age. I hope our trip together in Bali will give our relationship some clarity and perhaps closure.

I don't think there is hate toward Trench.  It's just that he's not exactly experienced with women, let alone FSUW, so keep that in mind when considering his "expertise".


The number of fake degrees in Ukraine is astronomical, so don't be impressed with a graduate degree there.  I'm not suggesting every person from Ukraine has a fake degree, there are a lot of smart people there.  However, they usually aren't living in small towns and relying on foreigners to fund them.


If you are still thinking pursuit is more "fun" than a relationship, you should not be funding a woman or even expecting her to make you a priority in her life.  Chances are 50/50 you will end up alone in old age even if you marry an FSUW.  There are no guarantees in life.

[GQBlues]

Here’s some perspective..... My relationship with a woman that’s been my main focus has fallen back into a friendship until we meet again..... There’s still flirting and affection in our correspondence..... She’s a busy woman with a career, children and a social life, but always has time for me..... When I message, she’ll reply in 5 minutes or less and rarely tells me she can’t chat..... She still shares pictures of her daily life, will actively engage and initiate conversation that’s diverse in subject and  rarely it’s just small talk.

If I was in the same situation as you and in an exclusive committed relationship, I’d walk away...... I might not be the most experienced member here, but one thing that I know is true to most FSU women is when they genuinely like you they go over and above to correspond with you at every chance they can...... In my case she could be shopping, helping with homework, cooking dinner, at a family event or snowed under at work...... she always makes an effort..... Even women I haven’t met in real life give me more emotional energy than you seem to be getting atm.

What’s the age gap between you?

Hah! Times have changed but the ol' adage that when a gal digs you, she'll leave no doubt. During my days (early 2000s, back when messenger, whatsapp, skype, facetime, etc.. weren't available; I remember a gal from Moscow was calling me in L.A. I still remember the very first time she called; another gal was using email as text message just before she went to sleep and would always asked for me to be patient as she only wanted to 'speak with me' before going to bed;, a gal from Vladivostok sent me two packages that contained pictures, hand-written letters, souvenirs from Vlad, 'scented' scarf, etc...

I remember my wife today back when she was still in Novosibirsk, and after my first visit, she had asked for pictures of me from when I was still a little boy, to pictures of siblings...she then made this 'website' (it downloaded mercilessly slow - at the time, Russia was still on the ol' 14 kbs modem connection), and portrayed a short 'story' from bits of what I shared with her, with the pictures I gave her. Almost like a powerpoint presentation. She couldn't wait to send me the link..

From Moscow to Siberia to Vladivostok, heck even one from Berdyansk, Ukraine. Now that was a pretty wild one. The things that went down with each of these gals during my time would make your heads spin.

Remember now, other than the 'portal' I put together to initiate and centralize my communication with any/all of them, they really had very limited communication from me for a one-on-one communication. I didn't really want to have any unnecessary, in-depth (wasteful) communication until after I meet them in person.

Anyway, I could go on but hopefully this is enough to make a point.

[Trenchcoat]

Boe speaks the truth CG, apart from my 'expertise'

Back in 2016 when I first started this venture I met the first girl I visited In Kyiv. At the end of the stay I needed to get a taxi back to the Airport, there was no Uber, Uklon, Yandex, etc operating in Kyiv then. I was out of ghrivna but had a bit of GBP on me. I didn't want to bother going and trying to get more ghrivna then, it was night time/very early morning plus I would have to pay a fee to get it. So instead and partly out of interest I offered the taxi driver £20 to take me from Hotel Ukraine in central Kyiv to Boryspill Airport. Now I knew this was a bit over the odds it was probably a £10-15 cost, even maybe £8 at the cheapest. Anyhow the guy was more than pleased to accept my offer, even double checked with me so as no misunderstanding. The point being is that, that was only £20 and for doing a job where he would incur expense and time out of his schedule. Just think of the girl you are giving $500 a month to for doing nothing. She can't even be bothered to interrupt dinner for the guy who is giving her so much each month. Now unless she has some kind of learning difficulty which I assume her possibly dodgy degree proves otherwise I would say she has probably lost all respect for you, possibly thinks you're besotted with her and will stupidly take any sort of treatment. That's just my thinking on the matter.

[Trenchcoat]

CG-

Your case speaks volumes in support of what I’ve been saying all along. The ‘get-to-know’ period should happen AFTER your first visit, NOT before. It matters none whether you’re a WOVO or otherwise.

If you’re going to continue with this, you desperately need to hone your social interaction skill and recognition quite a bit. You are sorely lacking as evidenced in your post above.

While you can take comfort that you likely are in the very vast majority to fall in this situation within the pangs of the MOB, but like many others like you, just learn from it. Don’t let your emotions and/or desperation guide your way in this adventure.

This is a very good point you have here GQ and worth emphasizing I think. Better to meet the girl, find out if there is any chemistry and what she us like in person. Nothing wrong with a but of basic ground work beforehand so you're not total strangers I think but all the ins and outs of stuff when there may not be no chemistry no good really. How the girl acts when there and when in making plans to meet her really tells what's she like I've learnt.