18 month relationship story

[deccie]

Yes, but those are generally about character flaws.  In Elena's case, I don't think it was about her character flaws.  It was that she wanted the OP as a meal ticket, and she was afraid others would see that and tell him.

I do agree she was trying to create division between him and his sons.

[bjorncode12]

THE END

So after more than a year of dating her I realized that something had to change.  I invited her to come to my house in California during a week in which I was the director of a national sporting event.  This is not my business but it is something I do on the side because I compete in the sport and I am passionate about it and so I hosted this national championship event.

I did this because I wanted to see how she would respond to a. living in my house with my sons around for a week and b. supporting me during this time when I had a ton of responsiblity.  She had not stayed with me for more than a day or two in the past.

I did prepare for this.  I moved into the master bedroom which had a separate bath, I bought flowers for her, and I cooked and cared for her when I was not busy with my responsibilities..

The second night she was there two of my sons got into a shouting match.  This was not about her, but it was loud.  Boys do this kind of stuff.

She immediately insisted that I take her to a hotel.  I refused.  She refused to have sex with me that night.

Then, later on in the week one of my sons was rude to her.   I told him to stop, it was not acceptable but he was not contrite.   She told me I should have kicked him out of the house immediately.

By the end of the week our relationship was in tatters.  Interestingly on the last morning when we were in bed in a hotel (I did spend our last night together with her in a hotel) she asked me if I was going to marry her.   I could not believe she actually thought I would still be interested in this.  And we had the hottest sex on this last morning.

All kind of a sad story and it effects me deeply to this day.   

The obvious mistake I made here was not preparing my sons for her arrival.  I should have discussed appropriate and respectful behavior around Elena and I did not.

But that week revealed all I needed to know.   It could not continue.

BTW, i have since talked to another russian woman on line who had a very similar story.  She was invited to stay with her physician on line boyfriend in the U.S. for the first time and she felt disrespected an unwelcome the entire time.  This woman was very sensitive, very beautiful and had many of the princess attributes that Elena has.

But the important point here is:  when you invite a russian woman to come and stay with you, they have a code of hospitality that is very different than what we have here in the U.S.  It is not live and let live...they expect to be treated as a special guest.

[Trenchcoat]

I disagree with krimster on this.  A person in love, or even lust, doesn't usually see the negative aspects to the person they are in love with.  Elena was a predator.  Like any good predator, she was just trying to separate the weak link (you) from the herd (your family).  She was afraid your sons would see her true nature, and would tell you what they thought.  Of course, what she failed to realize is that their perspectives would have no effect on you, at least, not in the short term, but that's a different matter.

+1

I totally agree with you on this.

[bjorncode12]

Elena's mistake was not opening up to and befriending my sons.  Had she done that, I would probably still be with her.  They never liked her.

I have since dated other american women with kids and they, for the most part, understand, acknowledge and honor the fact that my sons are a big part of my life.

[Trenchcoat]

Elena's mistake was not opening up to and befriending my sons.  Had she done that, I would probably still be with her.  They never liked her.

I have since dated other american women with kids and they, for the most part, understand, acknowledge and honor the fact that my sons are a big part of my life.

They probably saw something you didn't and that probably became apparent to each other during the stay.

[Boethius]

But the important point here is:  when you invite a russian woman to come and stay with you, they have a code of hospitality that is very different than what we have here in the U.S.  It is not live and let live...they expect to be treated as a special guest.

In an FSU understanding, you don't have sex with your special guests.

[deccie]

In an FSU understanding, you don't have sex with your special guests.

lol! But I bet you pay...

[krimster2]

I had quite a different experience for the home visit for my wife.

some background:
we got married in 1999. yeah, I know.....

Me at the time, 40 year old un-married electrical engineer with a very successful consulting firm in San Jose, Ca

my wife was 26 years old and came from a small village of about 500 people about 1 hr drive north of Sevastopol, where she worked.

I owned a small 3 bedroom house in San Jose, CA.

My wife’s first reaction was like someone who stepped out of the 18th century directly into what to her was some kind of science fiction movie.  There was at most back then about 10 cars in her entire village, and at the time I owned 3 myself (67 Triumph!!).  when I drove from SF airport to home on the 101 freeway she was in complete shock! my wife is quite tall 6'1“ and I am as well, her entire adult life had been a real struggle to find clothes and shoes that fit her, so day 1, I took her to Nordstrom’s, Macy’s, and some boutiques, after spending half the day shopping I took her to the nice restaurant at the end of stanford center, day 2 Russian district in San Fran, and then Fisherman’s wharf.  day 3 back to my previous home in Monterey and we went to the aquarium.
when I started spending more time at my office I got her a calling card and showed her how to use it to call her family/friends whenever she wished.  I got Russian cable as well at first, but after awhile she decided to only watch English.

about two weeks in, I helped her enroll in an ESL class in the nearby community college (where she soon made some friends who we still socialize with ‘lo these many years later!).  a few months after that I started giving her driving lessons and she got her license. (awww man! i had to do the same with 2 daughters as well, I feel like I operate a driving school)
my wife REALLY liked monterey(duh!), so whenever I could spend a couple of days there we’d make the short drive and spend a couple of days beach combing and just hanging out

there were some early difficulties, Russians are notoriously inscrutable, trying to understand a Russian’s inner mental state, from any form of external manifestation is utterly impossible, get used to that...  Russian culture doesn’t value outwardly sharing or displaying emotions (the only exception to this rule is “anger”, Russian culture permits everyone to freely display their anger, in fact they insist upon it, but this privilege does not however extend to any other officially recognized emotion. so there’s that...  also sometimes just subtle misunderstandings that somehow seem to metastasize into a silly argument for no apparent reason, get used to that as well. 

I would like to tell you that to handle these particular difficulties with my wife, I’m afraid I was compelled to use a form of sexual manipulation. I should explain that my wife was not the first Russian woman I had sex with, in 1996 I took a sabbatical from Silicon Valley and rented a 2 bedroom apartment for about 6 months a few blocks behind the GUM store in Kyiv off of Kreshattack(too lazy to spell, sorry).  I had a brand spanking new Lenovo laptop with a wireless modem that connected to a US AID funding provided T1 line about 300 meters away, this is how I worked (sometimes...)  I also “hussled” devochki!  sweet, by that I mean armed with a pair of wrinkle free dress pants, arrow shirt, some wildly colored tie and a solid color Hawaiian silk shirt with a dark blue blazer I ventured out into the vast Kievan boulevards and go ride the huge subway escalator that looked like it might go all the way to Odessa, that was freaking awesome!  after that I went back out on the street and started walking towards GUM, where I noticed a woman looked so beautiful she was surreal.  in the USA no way would I EVER approach a woman who

(sorry, to be continued, kid need me...)

 

[ML]

THE END

So after more than a year of dating her I realized that something had to change.  I invited her to come to my house in California during a week in which I was the director of a national sporting event.  This is not my business but it is something I do on the side because I compete in the sport and I am passionate about it and so I hosted this national championship event.

I did this because I wanted to see how she would respond to a. living in my house with my sons around for a week and b. supporting me during this time when I had a ton of responsiblity.  She had not stayed with me for more than a day or two in the past.

I did prepare for this.  I moved into the master bedroom which had a separate bath, I bought flowers for her, and I cooked and cared for her when I was not busy with my responsibilities..

The second night she was there two of my sons got into a shouting match.  This was not about her, but it was loud.  Boys do this kind of stuff.

She immediately insisted that I take her to a hotel.  I refused.  She refused to have sex with me that night.

Then, later on in the week one of my sons was rude to her.   I told him to stop, it was not acceptable but he was not contrite.   She told me I should have kicked him out of the house immediately.

By the end of the week our relationship was in tatters.  Interestingly on the last morning when we were in bed in a hotel (I did spend our last night together with her in a hotel) she asked me if I was going to marry her.   I could not believe she actually thought I would still be interested in this.  And we had the hottest sex on this last morning.

All kind of a sad story and it effects me deeply to this day.   

The obvious mistake I made here was not preparing my sons for her arrival.  I should have discussed appropriate and respectful behavior around Elena and I did not.

But that week revealed all I needed to know.   It could not continue.

BTW, i have since talked to another russian woman on line who had a very similar story.  She was invited to stay with her physician on line boyfriend in the U.S. for the first time and she felt disrespected an unwelcome the entire time.  This woman was very sensitive, very beautiful and had many of the princess attributes that Elena has.

But the important point here is:  when you invite a russian woman to come and stay with you, they have a code of hospitality that is very different than what we have here in the U.S.  It is not live and let live...they expect to be treated as a special guest.

Before this, I was sympathizing with you.

But now, I think you screwed up royally here . . . and now I am left to wonder where else you were largely at fault in the relationship.

When teenage boys are having a screaming match in front of a guest . . . that would be the last straw for many persons.  Even as a man, I would want out of the house also.

Any guest in anyone's house expects to be treated as a special guest.
To not fulfill this expectation is extremely rude.

[alex330]

Why would you invite two of your grown sons to stay with you while she was visiting? No offense man, but you shot yourself in the foot. Self sabotage.

[Boethius]

I assume the OP’s sons live with him when they visit him. If that is often, I think seeing how she interacted with his sons was important.

[jone]

Introducing a prospective mate, especially one foreign born, to one's children is a tricky business at best.  First, the meeting should be on neutral ground, not establishing one's GF in a house that the boys rightly had previous and territorial history with.  Second, if she is going to share your present residence, there should be major accommodations made to make it her own, not as an interloper who has stumbled on someone else's home. 

Didn't anyone ever tell you that when an FSU woman first sees your home, you should have a new bed to sleep in?  Well, maybe that's taking things too far, but new sheets at least.  And she should see you taking those sheets out of their wrapping.   The woman wants to know that it is HER bed, not your ex-wife's.

Many of the couples who have gotten married will tell you that the first thing an FSU woman will do is re-arrange everything.  From cupboards, to furniture, to schedules, everything.  She needs to make a home her own.

Your report on how you handled her visit, from your obligations as a director, to having your boys staying with you, to not understanding how to make her feel welcome is wrong on so many levels you gave yourself absolutely no chance for success.

Hopefully this will be a learning experience for any future interactions.

Good luck!

[Boethius]

He may have made errors, but they showed her true character.

[alex330]

Many of the couples who have gotten married will tell you that the first thing an FSU woman will do is re-arrange everything.  From cupboards, to furniture, to schedules, everything.  She needs to make a home her own.

Then clean multiple times. Then buy new stuff for the home, clean once more. Rearrange, clean, buy. Repeat.

He may have made errors, but they showed her true character.

Yes, you may be correct.

[mhr7]

Didn't anyone ever tell you that when an FSU woman first sees your home, you should have a new bed to sleep in?  Well, maybe that's taking things too far, but new sheets at least.  And she should see you taking those sheets out of their wrapping.   The woman wants to know that it is HER bed, not your ex-wife's.

Many of the couples who have gotten married will tell you that the first thing an FSU woman will do is re-arrange everything.  From cupboards, to furniture, to schedules, everything.  She needs to make a home her own.

Don't even have to be married. My RW bought new sheets, comforter, pillows, readings lamps and a clock for the bedroom. Kitchen entirely rearranged, 100 new things in my bathroom and half my closet space all hers. Every time she came over the first thing she did was open all the windows regardless of temperature. She never asked me if she could do any of this, she just did it. All of this within the first 3 weeks and she only stayed at my place 3 nights a week.

[ML]

Didn't anyone ever tell you that when an FSU woman first sees your home, you should have a new bed to sleep in?  Well, maybe that's taking things too far, but new sheets at least.  And she should see you taking those sheets out of their wrapping.   The woman wants to know that it is HER bed, not your ex-wife's.

This may be the general rule . . . but 'most' of the FSU women I have spent time with were seemingly an exception to this rule.

These FSU women not only slept in bed without any concern about who had been there before . . . but they even wore clothing that had been left by previous women.  Not out on the town, but clothing to wear around the house, in yard, garden, etc.

And these were all highly educated, sophisticated gals with significant jobs.
In fact, maybe it was these particular characteristics that allowed them to be more rational about such.

[JayH]

Don't even have to be married. My RW bought new sheets, comforter, pillows, readings lamps and a clock for the bedroom. Kitchen entirely rearranged, 100 new things in my bathroom and half my closet space all hers. Every time she came over the first thing she did was open all the windows regardless of temperature. She never asked me if she could do any of this, she just did it. All of this within the first 3 weeks and she only stayed at my place 3 nights a week.

I am laughing ! Going with the flow ( her flow that is !) and just let it all roll over you is important to not creating a scene/argument over what really amounts to nothing .
Being adaptable to change ( something we often see guys not at all interested in them changing anything) I think is a key to a relationship. Focus on what really matters .
You did well to keep HALF your closet space !!!!

[alex330]

You did well to keep HALF your closet space !!!!

I was thinking the same thing. He got off easy. Most of my stuff is in the laundry room 

[JayH]

Before this, I was sympathizing with you.

But now, I think you screwed up royally here . . . and now I am left to wonder where else you were largely at fault in the relationship.

When teenage boys are having a screaming match in front of a guest . . . that would be the last straw for many persons.  Even as a man, I would want out of the house also.

Any guest in anyone's house expects to be treated as a special guest.
To not fulfill this expectation is extremely rude.

What ages are the 3 son's?
Where do they usually live?
How much time do they spend in the OP's house?
Did they grow up in this house?

There is quite a lot of interest in the OP's story   let me try on one aspect --the travel and holidays .
I grew up in a world with a weekend beach place where vacation time was spent --in what now looks like a fairly humble way if it were not for the multi-million $ price tags on property in that area.The house was always overfull of people and that continued into my adult life. If the house was full my friends ( & my sisters) would pitch a tent in the yard etc .The days were spent at the beach -- hours & hours at the beaches .
I am guessing that a fair number of others here can relate to that type of holiday time back then.
As greater work hours and much higher remuneration became wider spread - it equalled less leisure time - and the growth of holiday destinations changed how many spend vacation time .
What I see in the FSU is that there was an incredibly strong culture of getting away for a "beach" holiday etc It was and IS seen as a very desirable thing to do. Hence the rise of the travel "whore" in one form or another.
The problem I see is this -- it is not a real life environment and every day real life issues are not on the agenda .It is far more likely to raise expectations to a ridiculous level  and that can only equal a looming problem.
Now -back to my point -- suggesting a "humble" beach  holiday that I had as a child ( & still basically do have) is not likely to excite an fsuw much in principle !

[bjorncode12]

So my sons were 18, 22 and 22 at the time they were staying at my house and Elena came to visit.  It was summertime and the youngest just graduated from high school and he lived with me at the time.  The two oldest had just graduated from college and they were home for the summer.  I have a big house and there was plenty of room for everyone.  I moved into the  master bedroom and bought a new king size bed when Elena came to visit.

I am from California and the culture here is pretty laid back and I naively thought it would be great for everyone to be together and it would give my sons and Elena time to get to know each other.

Lesson learned.

[fathertime]

I disagree with krimster on this.  A person in love, or even lust, doesn't usually see the negative aspects to the person they are in love with.  Elena was a predator.  Like any good predator, she was just trying to separate the weak link (you) from the herd (your family).  She was afraid your sons would see her true nature, and would tell you what they thought.  Of course, what she failed to realize is that their perspectives would have no effect on you, at least, not in the short term, but that's a different matter.

Excellent observation!

Fathertime! 

[alex330]

Ok, so just the ages and timing of them home for the summer. Maybe overload for her. Probably for the best it worked this way in the end.

[Boethius]

So my sons were 18, 22 and 22 at the time they were staying at my house and Elena came to visit.  It was summertime and the youngest just graduated from high school and he lived with me at the time.  The two oldest had just graduated from college and they were home for the summer.  I have a big house and there was plenty of room for everyone.  I moved into the  master bedroom and bought a new king size bed when Elena came to visit.

I am from California and the culture here is pretty laid back and I naively thought it would be great for everyone to be together and it would give my sons and Elena time to get to know each other.

Lesson learned.

There is a poster here whose grown son, and his girlfriend, moved in with him, his RW, and his RW’s children. His RW has zero issues with this. It’s very much an individual thing. I don’t think you made a mistake. If your sons are an important part of your life, any woman you become involved with must accept this. If she doesn’t then she is not the woman for you.

[krimster2]

bjorncode12,
   I mean no offense to you, but thinking like a westerner when you interact with Russians will just cause you problems, what you experienced was just one of the many ways your Western belief system will get in the way of your success with a Russian woman.  once you correctly determined the situation you acted correctly, so no problem there, you just need more exposure to the cultural differences, and this knowledge will help you select the right person for you!!!

I'd really avoid women with children next time, if you find a 40ish woman with no kids she won't have to deflect your children to favor her own, I'm sorry but you really need to deal with these considerations, your experience is what happens when you don't or don't even know about it, and there's at least a few hundred more things like this!

doesn't mean that some woman with 3 kids won't be the perfect match for you, but as every farmer knows if you have optimal conditions, things grow better

if you can swing the time off I'd recommend an extended trip and immerse yourself, you might be surprised at what you learn, I was!!!!


PS
if you don't mind me asking, what kind of product does your company produce?

[krimster2]

in regards to money and the setting of expectations concern, I’m going to assume that you used the high expectations as a way to sway your GF, am I a little right here?

if so, I think you already know the answer to this and won’t repeat it again, the fact that you met someone means you don’t need to hard sell your self with these kind of expectations!

if you use moderation at first, then she gets a pleasant surprise later, A Russian woman will like this, as opposed to starting with more flamboyance but then getting an unpleasant surprise later, actually Russian women really don’t like surprises much at all unless it’s jewelry!! WORD!!!!