Need help in Odessa!!

[Daveman]

Now I understand....  by benefit of an email and a phone call to the lady in Moldova I found out that she thought I was asking her for sex after we had agreed not to.  She understood this by virtue of my rather formal invitation typed into the computer and translated into Russian.  This is why she stiffened so suddenly upon reading it.  Of course she felt betrayed and told me she didn't sleep all night.  I have tried to explain to her that I did not ever, ever suggest that we have sex.  I have told her it was a poor translation of a too formal invitation to join me in the living room to watch television (since we had two tv's on in two rooms).  I doubt it will make much difference. Once some of these women make up their minds to something...especially on offense, it is just about over.  She told me in her email that I should go and find one of the loose women in Odessa!  I have explained again that I am not here for that and I do not do these things even in America.  Whether she believes me or not, I cannot tell.  I have invited her back to Odessa since she has holiday for all week. I have told her I will rent a separate apartment for her, if she will consider this.  I can't do any more than this.  If I grovel she won't respect me for that either...
Oh, and yes, I did go out today. It is dark now but I was out earlier and there was a band playing in the park.  And I initiated a conversation with a lady who was very friendly (even if she was passing out handbills for a Chinese cause!).  I will also follow-up on the recommendations posted above.  Thank you.  I think first I'd better wait to see if Natasha will return!
Everyone is also correct in that she was not a scammer--she is a conservative and moral woman, which is part of the reason I wanted to meet her.  We were destroyed by a bad translation from a website.  Something so little can destroy months of preparation.  I have apologized profusely but I will not hold hope.  I even called her back in Moldova after she arrived home.  She was not rude to me and stayed on the line, but still we could not effectively communicate.  I just said her name and said sorry in Rooskee and asked her to read my emails.  Beyond this I can do no more.

Thanks to all who have jumped in here. I appreciate it. I think she is a fine lady and I will sorry to lose her.

Mike, I am with Gator (and others) on this one...  This situation you described is freakin' weird.  It doesn't really add up to make much sense unless you look at it as this -- she's just not into you!  You do not know she is a fine lady - what you should know is that your perception is based upon emails written through a translator and some picture you've created in your mind which is probably different from the reality or the dream you envisioned prior to traveling.  What you know about her is exactly what you have witnessed in person.  She has shown you a bit of what your future together would hold for you. You cannot communicate effectively, she doesn't really seem to want to try, and not only that, why in the hell would she have run off into the other room to watch TV so that you would even have a need to invite her back to watch TV in the first place?  Don't rationalize away retarded, goofball, entirely absurd behavior. 

Don't blame the translator, don't rationalize away ridiculous behavior, don't kiss her ass to bring her back, just kiss her ass good-bye and move on in a better direction. 

[GoodOlBoy]

--she is a conservative and moral woman, which is part of the reason I wanted to meet her. 

Hey Mike, sorry for your troubles.

GoodOlBoy kinda takes a "different" view on this situation.

I have to ask you something.

You met her at a "neutral" site....correct?

Why in the hell didn't you rent her a room?

I mean guy, if you had come to meet her in Moldova at her home, would you have honestly expected her (being a "moral" woman) to let you sleep in the same room/apartment with her?....Not knowing who you really are?

No!......of course you would have rented a room/apartment in her hometown.

So why do you think a "neutral" site is any different?

The fact is, she was probably even MORE nervous meeting you in a "neutral" site, instead of her hometown.

Look, Gator is absolutely right RW having NO hangups about sex, BUT....On the other hand I wouldn't call them promiscuous either (especially with strange foreign men they have NEVER met before), unless they are scammers/whores.

I think you blew it guy and you should just move on.

Do yourself a favor Mike and before you go back to the FSU, learn SOME Russian and think about dating a woman that knows SOME English!!

Have a safe flight home.


GOB


FWIW.....When I met my wife (RW) for the first time in Greece, she had her own room. 

[GQBlues]

Now I understand....<snip>..Something so little can destroy months of preparation.  I have apologized profusely but I will not hold hope.

Strictly on the basis on your posts, I beg to differ. You should never chalk up strange behavior to cultural differences, and in this instance, absence of a common language.

The woman you created in your mind is not the woman you met. Unfortunately, this happens more times than people would care to admit. The woman you met left, now you're living with the woman in your mind once more.

It is not absent to her that both of you are completely reliant to electronic translators, thus there should've been ample amount of consideration given to both sides. Her explanation didn't fit the picture you painted either because I thought she was the one who cancelled the interpreter from coming that night. If she was worried you wanted to have sex with her that evening, the last thing she wanted to be is be alone with you.

Lastly, having an interpreter between the two of you that evening would given both of you a chance to clear any issues up...that is, if it's within her interest to do so. You have the answer to that right now.

I suggest you re-group and make a vacation out of this trip.

[GoodOlBoy]

I think she is a fine lady and I will sorry to lose her.

How old is she?


GOB

[392ihc]

Well, the saga continues!  Natasha has admitted to me that her behavior was not reasonable and she should have waited until the interpreter arrived and discussed it with me.  She has asked me to forgive her and to try again with an interpreter.  I have agreed to this.  I have an excellent interpreter, Sveta Mikhalkina.  I let her read Natasha's recent emails to me since this erupted...all she said at first was:  "Wow". As I asked her for more she said she believes this woman to be serious but very gun-shy and extremely nervous about being in a foreign country with the first western man she has ever met.... her opinion.  She also placed a call to Moldova for me to speak to Natasha but she only was able to speak to her sister.  She gave the information to the sister.  A later email to me confirmed that she had all of this information.  What information you may wonder?  Well, I agreed that renting a flat with her was too much for her to accept---yeah, don't say it, I already know.  So, Sveta had located a much more reasonable flat away from the main drag for Natasha, if she choose to return to Odessa. (I have not paid anything on this yet).  I agreed to send Natasha taxi fare to return from Moldova ($80.00 was all she asked for).  Sveta has called me already today asking when Natasha will arrive....I have told her all I know is that the last email I received from her last night indicated that she would redeem the money in her city and take a taxi with another person to Odessa and she would come here to my apartment first. (Taxis are cheaper when they "pool" with another person.  She is not here yet and I have heard nothing. 
If she shows I will call Sveta and we will check her in to her separate apartment and set up times with the interpreter.  Natasha has told me she has taken the rest of the week off from work due to the time we have lost because of our problems.
No, I assure you I am not interested in a marriage with little or no sex!  BTDT. The posts on here seem to have gradually moved from an interpretation that "I blew it" to a more or less negative judgement about Natasha.  I honestly cannot tell you what I believe to be true at this moment.  Obviously, if she doesn't show at all, I will know.  If she shows and we have many productive hours of meaningful converstation, AND some physical affection short of sex, I will be more positive.  That's where I am at today.
My apartment in on Yekateriniskaya Ulitsa!  Yes, I have walked all over.  Met some Canadians here for the same purpose.  Interpreter introduced me to another local lady whom I took for coffee.  Been to the theater and intend to go to the opera Thursday evening.  Been to the beach.......  an old man shouldn't spend too much time on UA beaches!  Makes one go blind!
Amyway, I want to thank all who posted so many good ideas on here for me.  I am in your debt for sure.  I will post again here after today to allow time to see what will happen. Over and out.  Mike in Wyoming

[392ihc]

She is 38.  Never been married.

[GoodOlBoy]

She is 38.  Never been married.

Mike, take some advice from GOB.....when she comes back, GO SLOW with her.

Don't push things to fast.

She sounds for real.

Good luck.


GOB

[Muddy]

My apartment in on Yekateriniskaya Ulitsa!  Yes, I have walked all over.  Met some Canadians here for the same purpose.  Interpreter introduced me to another local lady whom I took for coffee.  Been to the theater and intend to go to the opera Thursday evening.  Been to the beach.......  an old man shouldn't spend too much time on UA beaches!  Makes one go blind!
Amyway, I want to thank all who posted so many good ideas on here for me.  I am in your debt for sure.  I will post again here after today to allow time to see what will happen. Over and out.  Mike in Wyoming

There is also a nice bowling place very close to you, 15 min by foot if you like bowling
There is also a very nice russian rest called lisavisam, good veal shashleek

[392ihc]

Oiee....the plot thickens!  Second part first...  Natasha arrived by taxi to my apartment just as she said she would.  Chipper as can be.  Interpreter could not arrive for several hours so we hung out for awhile in my flat and then walked to the theater and bought tickets for the opera this evening.  Interpreter showed and boy, did I ever see what her hang up is....appears her dad was quite a womanizer and carried on in front of the kids the whole marriage.  She is afraid of men in general and has some real trust issues with many people but especially men!  Yeah, Gator, I think you nailed it.  I mean she is really into me now.  No question.  But, I mean, when you have been "abused" as a child by witnessing flagrant infidelity you certainly have a slanted view on relationships and men.
On the other hand she is aware of all this and admits to it and readily promised to change...  Remember I am an old fart and I have seen a lot and heard a lot of promises. 
We went to dinner and then to the opera.  Walking along she took my hand and never let go...I had told her I would not touch her without her consent so she initiated it.  I walked her to her separate flat and bought groceries for her, kissed her on the cheek and left.  OK....slow enough?  Much slower and we will be standing still!
Now, the first part!  This local lady I met yesterday on Singles.Ru met me again this morning for breakfast (after a guided tour of the city center and dinner last night).  This woman is really a classy lady and speaks good English.  She is older, divorced, and two grown daughters.  I told her all about waiting alone here in Odessa for this woman from Moldova before I even met her.  She insisted this morning that I call her at work if I needed to talk!  I really like her!  She was just a shot in the dark from a recommendation from a member on here to go on Singles.Ru two days ago!  I didn't even have a picture to post when I created my profile!  I only wanted to be blessed once....not twice!  I have gone from nada, zip, nothing, to two ladies interested in me!  This requires a whole new thinking pattern!
What will tomorrow bring?

[Faux Pas]

Oiee....the plot thickens!  Second part first...  Natasha arrived by taxi to my apartment just as she said she would.  Chipper as can be.  Interpreter could not arrive for several hours so we hung out for awhile in my flat and then walked to the theater and bought tickets for the opera this evening.  Interpreter showed and boy, did I ever see what her hang up is....appears her dad was quite a womanizer and carried on in front of the kids the whole marriage.  She is afraid of men in general and has some real trust issues with many people but especially men!  Yeah, Gator, I think you nailed it.  I mean she is really into me now.  No question.  But, I mean, when you have been "abused" as a child by witnessing flagrant infidelity you certainly have a slanted view on relationships and men.
On the other hand she is aware of all this and admits to it and readily promised to change...  Remember I am an old fart and I have seen a lot and heard a lot of promises. 
We went to dinner and then to the opera.  Walking along she took my hand and never let go...I had told her I would not touch her without her consent so she initiated it.  I walked her to her separate flat and bought groceries for her, kissed her on the cheek and left.  OK....slow enough?  Much slower and we will be standing still!
Now, the first part!  This local lady I met yesterday on Singles.Ru met me again this morning for breakfast (after a guided tour of the city center and dinner last night).  This woman is really a classy lady and speaks good English.  She is older, divorced, and two grown daughters.  I told her all about waiting alone here in Odessa for this woman from Moldova before I even met her.  She insisted this morning that I call her at work if I needed to talk!  I really like her!  She was just a shot in the dark from a recommendation from a member on here to go on Singles.Ru two days ago!  I didn't even have a picture to post when I created my profile!  I only wanted to be blessed once....not twice!  I have gone from nada, zip, nothing, to two ladies interested in me!  This requires a whole new thinking pattern!
What will tomorrow bring?

A much better problem to have, huh? 

[I/O]

What will tomorrow bring?

My guess is you'll have your arse placed squarely in your hands by number one and you'll go home with some hope for number two unless you're a way sight smarter than the average bear. BTW, timing is the key as any circus juggler will tell you .

[JR]

I agree with Daveman, "Kiss her ass good-bye!" She promises to change? Nope, not gonna happen. All the *snip* she packed away from seeing her dad do what he did will land squarely on YOUR head. You will not have to do anything wrong either, you will be quilty by gender association. I lived thru that for ten plus years. She will NEVER trust you. And what you saw in her behavior the first time is what you will live with. Being nice now? Bull*snip*! Everything everyone said before about her behavior still stands true.

I kid you not.

Take option number two and run with it.

[Sculpto]

it.

Whats is "it"?  Is "it" an animal or a show dog or something?  sorry JR.. just the way you wrote that is really dehumanizing.  I am sure you didn't mean for the comment to come across that way.

[GoodOlBoy]

All the *snip* she packed away from seein her dad do what he did will land spuarely on YOUR head.

Yeah......and what your thinking about doing with #2 Mike, will just about finish off any trust #1 may ever have with ANY other man again.

Look, it's not your fault Mike that #1 is damaged, BUT...Do the right thing and don't damage her any more! (for the next guy's sake).

Put #1 in a taxi and send her home to Moldova, BEFORE starting any shenanigans with #2.

Remember Mike: What goes around, comes around.

GOB

PS....Don't be like #1's father.

[Sculpto]

hey GOB, we get to agree for once.

[Misha]

This woman is really a classy lady and speaks good English.  She is older, divorced, and two grown daughters.  ...  I really like her!  She was just a shot in the dark from a recommendation from a member on here to go on Singles.Ru two days ago!

Let's see, a young woman, clearly with issues, that does no speak English and I guarantee you will make your life miserable in the future or a woman who seems well-adjusted and that you actually like. I would certainly recommend you to politely end things with the younger woman (as GOB suggested) and then continue seeing the older woman who you could actually have a real relationship with in the long term.

[JR]

Whats is "it"?  Is "it" an animal or a show dog or something?  sorry JR.. just the way you wrote that is really dehumanizing.  I am sure you didn't mean for the comment to come across that way.

"it" is the possibility. Has nothing to do with the lady. I was using it in reference to "His" choices. Not using it to reference her.

And you are right, if I had used it that way it would have been very demeaning and in appropriate. I see where it could look that way.

And GOB makes an EXCELLENT observation. You will damage lady #1 further as soon as she finds out about lady #2, and she will. You will prove to her that her way of thinking about men is correct. This is a NO WIN situation. You will lose and cause more damage.

Send her home now...

[Gator]

Congratulations!  You have done an inadvertent WOVM.

Remember, you are the general.  Some of us can give you advice.  However, you are the one on the battlefield making decisions.

Here is my advice, which could change dependent upon any news you give in the next post:

Now is the time to choose because if you divide your time with both you will lose both.

You are getting along in years - don't waste any more of your precious time with the Moldova woman.  I told you Day One that she was not for you (or perhaps any man).  Now you have given us even more reasons.

She starts to open up and mentions her father.  This is probably the tip of the iceberg as she does not seem like a woman who will tell all the first day.  A father who would pursue other women in front of his daughter may have done worse to her, and that would be horrible if true.  But that is not your fault, so don't take responsibility for helping her.  Be gentle as GOB said and somehow say goodbye.

You like the Odessa woman.  Even better, you feel comfortable with her.

RW are believers in destiny.  And the manner in which you met the Odessa woman will seem like destiny to her.  She wants to know more about you.  And you want to know more about her.  Time is wasting away.

[bobb]

Solid advice Gator.

In addition to all the obvious reasons mentioned why many feel woman #2 is a better choice I feel the smaller age gap is a positive. 

[392ihc]

You are all correct.  Your thinking is on target and still compassionate on behalf of lady #1.  I am impressed by the collective logic expressed here.  My thanks to all of you.  I will follow the advise offered here.  Lady #2 is fully aware of lady #1 but certainly not the reverse nor do I want her to be.  I agree with the posts here suggesting that the discovery of lady #2 by lady #1, will send her into a tail spin which may likely last the rest of her life regarding all men.  But I do not wish to offer my neck for her to chop off as a result of her anger from other times and other men... 
More to the story:  I was to fly back to Kiev this Saturday according to the original plan but then I do not fly to JFK until Thursday.  So I have decided to ask lady #2 if she will agree to my remaining in Odessa to spend time only with her!  Changing flights on Aerosvit is cheap as long as they have seats available.  And apartments are cheaper here than in Kiev....  This is how this general in the field calls it!
I am sure this is not the last post on this subject in this city!
BTW, lady #2, Tina, loves her city and is so proud of it, she just swells with pride as she shows me all the sights.  I told her this morning at breakfast how beautiful she was, she just beamed at me and said spaseeba!  Later in the conversation upon learning that my flat has no washing machine, she offered to wash my clothes for me!!  I cannot allow her to do this....this is too much.  Maybe I also will believe in destiny?  What a difference a few days make, yes?

[BC]

Tonto: "keep feet on ground, otherwise never hear thunder"

[GoodOlBoy]

So I have decided to ask lady #2 (Tina) if she will agree to my remaining in Odessa to spend time only with her!....... This is how this general in the field calls it!

Sound like a good "call" General Mike.

Good luck with Tina! 


GOB

[Faux Pas]

Let her wash the clothes. Are you too proud or just don't want her to see your skidmarks? 

[BillyB]

General, I'm reporting for duty with some advice! Make sure there are no long female strands of hair laying around in your apartment. Especially if it's a different color than your ladies hair. Almost everytime I go to the FSU, there are female stands of hair laying around. Maybe the cleaning lady didn't do a good job or it's the cleaning lady's hair. RW are a 100 times more aware of the surroundings than you are and if she spots hair that's not hers, it's going to turn her off.

Other things I found men left behind that I had to hide or throw away. Unused condems(thank God I never found a used one), k-y lubricating jelly, body massage oil, and internet printouts off a sex forum giving tips on where a guy can get hookers. The way the guys talked about the hookers were as if they were a piece of meat. Some guys would take photos of the hooker after they finished all over her and post it on the internet. Stuff like that is not what you want your woman to see. She might think all that stuff belongs to you.

[myrddin]

Make sure there are no long female strands of hair laying around in your apartment. Especially if it's a different color than your ladies hair. Almost everytime I go to the FSU, there are female stands of hair laying around. Maybe the cleaning lady didn't do a good job or it's the cleaning lady's hair. RW are a 100 times more aware of the surroundings than you are and if she spots hair that's not hers, it's going to turn her off.

Listen to the man - I had to learn this the hard way!

I can laugh about it now that the scars have healed.