Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy

[Brasscasing]

Press release from NABU...

Statement regarding P.Manafort's appearance on the Party of Regions black ledger

In response to numerous requests from mass media regarding appearance of the name of Paul Manafort on the Party of Regions ‘black ledger’ (documents passed to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau by the Ex-first-deputy of the State Security Service of Ukraine Victor Trepak), the National Anti-Corruption Bureau informs on the following.

Paul Manafort is among those names on the list of the so-called "black ledger” of the Party of Regions, which is investigated by the detectives of National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine. According to the lists, a total sum of over 12.7 million US dollars was allocated on the costs associated with this person since 20.11.2007. The last entry on the lists about P. Manafort is dated on October 5, 2012.

We emphasize that mentioning P.Manafort’s name on the list does not mean that he actually got the money, because the signatures that appear in the column of recipients could belong to other people.

To avoid rumors and speculations, the NABU is publishing copies of 19 pages, containing 22 items related to the name of Paul Manafort."...

An itemized list and a copy of the ledger with the so called Manafort entries are attached...

nabu.gov.ua

Now, as the inquiry continues we're starting to get reports that - Hey, guess what? The signatures on the spreadsheet don't belong to Manafort but to a 'party member(s)' not associated with Manafort...

..."Recently, NABU official website reported that among the records of the so-called Party of Regions “spreadsheet”, there were recordings of the transfer of more than 12 million US Dollars to Yanukovych’s American political consultant Paul Manafort.

Though signatures under the sums addressed to Manafort were not his own. They belong to persons related to the foreign policy wing of the Party of Regions. In particular, to one former member of the party.

..."NABU, in its turn, after such a loud statement, is simply obliged to interrogate those persons that are listed in the «Party of Regions spreadsheet» as persons receiving the funds from the “black cash” indicating “for Manafort”, as well as call Manafort in for questioning on this or run it through a video conference that is not prohibited by procedural code."...

http://empr.media/politics/manafort-questioned-detectives/

The plot thickens...

Brass

[Slumba]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-20/fbi-probing-firm-belonging-clinton-campaign-chairmans-brother-ties-ukraine-corruptio

Podesta as in Jon Podesta, longtime Democrat congressman andClinton campaign chairman, and his brother - AMAZING isn't it how the relatives suddenly also become successful once a person gets elected to national office, isn't it?

Scratch under Manafort and you find ... Pinchuk's donations to the Clinton foundation, Podesta, etc. 

[BillyB]

Manafort’s Ukraine ties being probed by FBI

http://www.yahoo.com/news/manaforts-ukraine-ties-being-probed-by-fbi-013933245.html

Seems like they are more concerned where the money went. Obviously Manafort didn't steal it but it went to lobbying purposes which conservative and democrat lobby groups benefit. Your article said those lobby groups didn't register as foreign agents as required by law. By registering, it will give the transparency that they lobby on behalf of foreign interest. I'm not surprised connections to Hillary popped up in this investigation. Her name seems to be tied to every dollar in and outside of America.

[Boethius]

It certainly appears you were correct.  Isn't it ironic with all the grumbling about 'hillary scandal's' and her having to drop out, it winds up being one of Trump's top guys who is now in hot water!  All in all, the whole thing looks bad for the USA....a little like when Victoria Nuland made her 'fvuk EU' comments!   So I wonder how much US money is being used to try to influence the politics abroad...
Manafort’s Ukraine ties being probed by FBI


The Justice Department and the FBI are conducting a wide-ranging investigation into allegations of corrupt dealings by the government of former Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovych, including the hiring of Washington lobbyists for the regime by former Donald Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, a senior law enforcement official confirmed to Yahoo News.

The investigation, which was first reported by CNN, began two years ago after Yanukovych fled Kiev to Moscow and was replaced by the current government of Petro Poroshenko, the official said. But the inquiry has expanded in recent weeks in the wake of the discovery of documents showing $12.7 million in payments to Manafort by Yanukovych’s Party of Regions political party. Investigators are also....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/manaforts-ukraine-ties-being-probed-by-fbi-013933245.html


Fathertime!

What was most interesting to me in the link was that Manafort establishes not for profits to run many of these for profit activities, presumably so he can skirt U.S. lobbying laws.  His representation of evil dictators, such as Marcos, were done as a lobbyist, and I suspect he didn't like the negative publicity.

[Anotherkiwi]

The general misrepresentation that Manafort was demoted by the media to create false scandal...You have a problem even acknowledging the hypocrisy if it's originating on your team.

What crap is this?  I've never even mentioned Manafort, so why are you linking my name to posts about him?  And how can I acknowledge any hypocrisy. when there is no such thing as "my team?"

I highly doubt you read what you actually post or you wouldn't be posting it.

Arrogance is your middle name, isn't it?

Again, Trump did not lie. He may have been somewhat ambitious with the word "founded" but the historical accuracy, perception and generally accepted sentiment that Obama is responsible for the rise of IS is factual.

I thought English was your first language.  I apologise for getting that wrong.

1.  He DID lie.  He made an unequivocal statement that Obama founded ISIS, a statement which the whole world (including you) knows to be untrue.  Using "somewhat ambitious" as a qualifier just doesn't cut it.

2.  The "historical accuracy" that Obama is responsible for the rise of ISIS is debatable.  While decisions taken by the United States (NOT necessarily by Obama himself) may have opened the way for ISIS to strengthen, you cannot link the two with certainty - no matter how much you personally wish to do so.

3.  The "perception" and "generally accepted sentiment" to which you refer is bullshit.  Even if, as I posted earlier, the 29% of poll respondents were all vehemently anti-Obama, and agreed with your premise, that falls a hell of a long way short of any accepted formula or test to determine how anything can be "generally accepted."

You're kinda making a fool of yourself trying to convince me to agree with you when your premise is simply untrue.

You're kinda making a fool of yourself trying to convince anybody that YOUR premise is correct.

[BillyB]

One can Google Podesta Group, which has ties to Hillary and other Democrats, and not see major media outlets target them like they are doing Manafort's lobby company. They lobbied on behalf of pro Russian Yanukovych's party and are investigated by the FBI for skirting the rules. Although Manafort's name will not be associated with Trump anymore, I'm sure he'll continue to get more attention than the liberals who were involved in this.

The bottom line is the Ukrainian people voted Yanukovych in power and trusted him with their money. I was one of the few people who protested the election pointing out voter fraud. Vote untrustworthy people in power, this is what happens. If Hillary is elected, I wouldn't doubt she'd be involved with another scandal.

[Brasscasing]

 As the investigation moves forward the names starting to surface in the so-called 'Black Ledger' are raising some eyebrows. However, the left wing MSM outlets won't be telling you about it...

Regions Party paid $225,000 from its shadow assets to U.S. journalist Larry King

..."Money from the Regions Party's shadow assets was paid, for instance, to Larry King, a well-known American journalist who had been a CNN host for decades. He got $225,000 from the Regions Party's shadow coffer," Leshchenko said at a press conference on Friday morning in Kyiv.

Editor-in-chief of the Internet online publication Ukrayinska Pravda Sevgil Musaieva-Borovyk in turn said that King had received those funds for an interview with the then Prime Minister of Ukraine Mykola Azarov."...

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/364609.html

Now that Manafort is no longer perceived to pose a threat to Hillary the false accusations (as we see in this discussion topic), media frenzy and smear campaign will likely be shunted to the back burner and disappeared.

Why? Because this faux scandal has served it's purpose and as the investigation continues the names and organizations of those who could have actual criminal involvement like Clinton's campaign manager Podesta may start to figure more prominently. The media will now be relentless in suppressing any new information implicating their presidential candidate or those who work for her.

I've used Larry King's name as an example of the names alongside Manafort's that are being found in this ledger but are simply being ignored by the same media outlets and like minded individuals who proclaimed Manafort is "the destroyer of Ukraine's democracy" (of all things ) for being recorded in the same ledger.

The hypocrisy of these people and organizations is simply astounding.

Brass

[Brasscasing]

What crap is this?  I've never even mentioned Manafort, so why are you linking my name to posts about him?  And how can I acknowledge any hypocrisy. when there is no such thing as "my team?"

Yeah, I figured you'd start dancing about now. I linked your duplicitous behavior ignoring the lies being told about Manafort yet screaming bloody murder at the miswording used by Trump. "Where's the outrage?" Get it?

Arrogance is your middle name, isn't it?

And Mendacious must be yours...

I thought English was your first language.  I apologise for getting that wrong.

I've been employing the English language at an adult proficient level so I can understand how that would confuse you. I can dumb my grammar down for you if it will help?

1.  He DID lie.  He made an unequivocal statement that Obama founded ISIS, a statement which the whole world (including you) knows to be untrue.  Using "somewhat ambitious" as a qualifier just doesn't cut it.

2.  The "historical accuracy" that Obama is responsible for the rise of ISIS is debatable.  While decisions taken by the United States (NOT necessarily by Obama himself) may have opened the way for ISIS to strengthen, you cannot link the two with certainty - no matter how much you personally wish to do so.

3.  The "perception" and "generally accepted sentiment" to which you refer is bullshit.  Even if, as I posted earlier, the 29% of poll respondents were all vehemently anti-Obama, and agreed with your premise, that falls a hell of a long way short of any accepted formula or test to determine how anything can be "generally accepted."

You're kinda making a fool of yourself trying to convince anybody that YOUR premise is correct.

I've already debunked your false premise starting here . A second attempt at smearing Trump won't be any more successful on this topic.

Brass



 

[Boethius]

I've used Larry King's name as an example of the names alongside Manafort's that are being found in this ledger but are simply being ignored by the same media outlets and like minded individuals who proclaimed Manafort is "the destroyer of Ukraine's democracy" (of all things) for being recorded in the same ledger.

I titled this before knowledge of that ledger was reported.

Paul Manafort had no trouble crafting a campaign that created artificial divides in Ukrainian society.   This had repercussions, including an invasion a few years later.   He had no trouble in getting in bed with Ukrainian oligarchs, or in pushing policies, thanks to his connections with the Party of Regions, that benefited his US clients to the detriment of average Ukrainians.  He had no issues in attempting to privatize, and monetize to his personal advantage, Ukrainian state assets.  When Larry King does the same, you'll have an equivalency argument.  It has zero to do with Donald Trump.

[BillyB]

It has zero to do with Donald Trump.

The media has a habit of mentioning Trump every time they mention Manafort so they plant a seed in everybody's head that Trump is connected. Brass mentioned earlier there was a liberal lobbyist working for Yanukovych but I can't remember his name because media doesn't run many stories on him.

Trump's son said father got rid of Manafort because he was a distraction in interview below. It's sad that the media decides to run with stories of a person who is not going for the presidency and ignore the stories on a person that is going for presidency. Lots of good reading material in them emails about pay to play but most Americans will not get to hear about it.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/08/19/eric-trump-on-manaforts-resignation-sot-lv.cnn/video/playlists/donald-trumps-campaign-shakeup/

[Brasscasing]

I titled this before knowledge of that ledger was reported.

Your subject title is based on a NYT smear piece (OP) that eluded to a document that in a subsequent article the NYT identified as the ledger...

..."Mr. Manafort’s role was disclosed after a document was discovered in a box in a sauna belonging to a former senior Ukrainian official. Other documents in that cache are now evidence in a criminal case against a former justice official, and could shed more light on Mr. Manafort’s role."...

www.nytimes.com

Paul Manafort had no trouble crafting a campaign that created artificial divides in Ukrainian society.   This had repercussions, including an invasion a few years later.   He had no trouble in getting in bed with Ukrainian oligarchs, or in pushing policies, thanks to his connections with the Party of Regions, that benefited his US clients to the detriment of average Ukrainians.  He had no issues in attempting to privatize, and monetize to his personal advantage, Ukrainian state assets.  When Larry King does the same, you'll have an equivalency argument.  It has zero to do with Donald Trump.

Third time...Substantiation? ...Links? ...Proof of any of this? Otherwise it's just more 'I'm with her' speculation and completely without legal merit.

So names like CNN's (retired) Larry King being recorded on the ledger as receiving payment(s?) doesn't deserve the same scrutiny as Manafort's name being on the ledger?... I think not.

It has everything to do with Trump. As Billy's already posted the left wing media have tied the names Trump and Manafort together like they're Siamese twins when they peddle their smear campaigns.

Brass

[Anotherkiwi]

Yeah, I figured you'd start dancing about now. I linked your duplicitous behavior ignoring the lies being told about Manafort yet screaming bloody murder at the miswording used by Trump. "Where's the outrage?" Get it?

No, I don't get it.  I haven't mentioned Manafort at all, in any capacity, so you can't link the two using my name.  For that, I will happily admit to being outraged. 

I've been employing the English language at an adult proficient level so I can understand how that would confuse you. I can dumb my grammar down for you if it will help?

This from someone who doesn't know the difference between "elude" and "allude."

Your subject title is based on a NYT smear piece (OP) that eluded to a document that in a subsequent article the NYT identified as the ledger...

The only thing which eludes you is that Trump lied.  I'm happy to bow to your superior knowledge of Paul Manafort and all these other people of whom you have first-hand knowledge.

I've already debunked your false premise starting here . A second attempt at smearing Trump won't be any more successful on this topic.

It doesn't matter how many times, in how many threads, you try to weasel out of it, you're not going to win this one.

TRUMP LIED.  And after all the outrage over his remarks, he finally decides to claim that he was being sarcastic.

[Boethius]

Your subject title is based on a NYT smear piece (OP) that eluded to a document that in a subsequent article the NYT identified as the ledger...

So you are now able to get inside my head to determine how I decided to name the article?

No, the NYT piece was not the only piece I read.  But it was the only one I linked.

Manafort has also worked for such stellar humanitarians as Ferdinand Marcos, Jonas Savimbi, Mobutu Sese Seko, Sani Abacha, Siad Barre, the entire nation of Saudi Arabia, and of course, Viktor Yanukovych.  So, he has a history spanning 30 odd years, of aiding the most vile human rights abusers in the world, all for his ounce of gold.

How anyone could defend the record of a man who has demonstrated by deeds that money matters more than the blood of innocents is beyond the pale.

[Boethius]

Here is the way I look at it. 

Ukraine (and Russia) are ruled by the same ruling elite who ruled in Soviet times.  They destroyed these countries for seven decades and continue to do so.  No one can honestly state these countries are well governed.  They have no rule of law and are mired in corruption and cronyism.

We, in the West, who are blessed with stability, should be funding grassroots organizations, through various means, for the populations to change their countries from within.  We should not be making a buck by aiding the vilest leaders to continue to steal, and to subvert democracy.  To do so, and then to continue to lobby and benefit personally from ties to those who ensure these countries remain poor is contrary to even the most basic human decency.

Yesterday and today, the better half and I spent most of the day driving the roads of Kalyna country.  We saw many of the historical Byzantine churches that dot the region, a tribute to the history of Ukrainian settlement in east-central Alberta.  Every town, no matter its population, had a church.  It was not unusual in those towns, populated predominantly by Ukrainians, where Ukrainian was the common language spoken on the main streets, to have two churches, one Orthodox, and one Greek Catholic.   Now, as the populations of those towns has decreased, and church attendance dwindles, many of those churches are well preserved, and one can tour them and leave a donation for their upkeep, but they are, essentially, museums.

The empty churches got me thinking to Ukraine, and the images I have seen over the years not of churches sitting without worshippers, but rather, of bell towers pulled down, of icons smashed, of centuries old bricks dismantled overnight, because of ideology.  I asked the better half on his perspectives, as the end result is really the same, though how we arrived there differs.

The better half pointed out that when money becomes your god, you, as a society, are doomed.  He gave me numerous historical examples to back up his assertion.  Certainly, the situation among Ukrainian elites is indicative of this.  Manafort is an example of the West's side of that coin.  There is no shame in representing, in the halls of power, the most vile torturers and oppressors of other human souls.  It is not done out of conviction, or deeply held political belief, or the fanaticism of some ideological belief.  It is all done in pursuit and reverence of the mighty dollar, our new god, and to hell with those who suffer the consequences of that pursuit.

[Brasscasing]

No, I don't get it.  I haven't mentioned Manafort at all, in any capacity, so you can't link the two using my name.  For that, I will happily admit to being outraged. 

This from someone who doesn't know the difference between "elude" and "allude."

The only thing which eludes you is that Trump lied.  I'm happy to bow to your superior knowledge of Paul Manafort and all these other people of whom you have first-hand knowledge.

It doesn't matter how many times, in how many threads, you try to weasel out of it, you're not going to win this one.

TRUMP LIED.  And after all the outrage over his remarks, he finally decides to claim that he was being sarcastic.

Really Kiwi...Again with the falsehoods and trying to "win this one" with a typo. 

Being stubborn with your bluster or large red font won't increase the accuracy or truthfulness of what you're posting.

You keep trying to convince me you're making some sort of valid argument when you're not. At this point you're posting nothing more than petty and spiteful comments to make it appear as though you still have a legitimate claim when it's already obvious you don't.

Learn to quit when you're behind. You're becoming dull and monotonous in your repetition.

Brass

[Brasscasing]

So you are now able to get inside my head to determine how I decided to name the article?

Don't put words in my narratives that don't exist. I was responding to your comment I quoted...

I titled this before knowledge of that ledger was reported.

I hope you're not denying you posted the link. You're referring to it in the next paragraph.

No, the NYT piece was not the only piece I read.  But it was the only one I linked.

Manafort has also worked for such stellar humanitarians as Ferdinand Marcos, Jonas Savimbi, Mobutu Sese Seko, Sani Abacha, Siad Barre, the entire nation of Saudi Arabia, and of course, Viktor Yanukovych.  So, he has a history spanning 30 odd years, of aiding the most vile human rights abusers in the world, all for his ounce of gold.

How anyone could defend the record of a man who has demonstrated by deeds that money matters more than the blood of innocents is beyond the pale.

Already discussed up thread. You do realize that there are current Clinton staff, one I mentioned up thread, that worked alongside Manafort, yes? No condemnation for them I note.

Here's another...What about Lanny Davis who is today a Clinton surrogate appearing on different media outlets supporting Hillary and "creatively" slamming Trump on a regular basis?...

SPECIAL REPORT-Putin's allies channelled billions to Ukraine oligarch

..."The Ukrainian oligarch has said the allegations are "without foundation" and has accused Washington of acting for "purely political reasons." He has hired an all-star legal defence team. It includes Lanny Davis, who helped President Bill Clinton weather a series of White House scandals in the 1990s."...

www.reuters.com

Here's a Clinton lawyer and advocate who has confirmed ties to Firtash, the guy you unsuccessfully tried to tie Manafort to as being a fellow destroyer of Ukraine.

No outrage for him?

Brass

[Muzh]

Manafort has also worked for such stellar humanitarians as Ferdinand Marcos, Jonas Savimbi, Mobutu Sese Seko, Sani Abacha, Siad Barre, the entire nation of Saudi Arabia, and of course, Viktor Yanukovych.  So, he has a history spanning 30 odd years, of aiding the most vile human rights abusers in the world, all for his ounce of gold.

At least these guys were right-wingers. 

[Brasscasing]

At least these guys were right-wingers. 

So was this guy...

As Thousands Flee Ivory Coast, Former Clinton Adviser Lanny Davis is Paid Lobbyist for President Who Refuses to Cede Power

www.democracynow.org

..."In October 2011, the International Criminal Court opened an investigation into acts of violence committed during the conflict after the election, and ICC chief prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo visited the country. The ICC formally issued an arrest warrant for Gbagbo, charging him with four counts of crimes against humanity – murder, rape and other forms of sexual violence, persecution and "other inhuman acts", allegedly committed between 16 December 2010 and 12 April 2011"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Gbagbo

Still no outrage or is it copacetic because Lanny's a Democrat?

Brass

[Muzh]

So was this guy...

As Thousands Flee Ivory Coast, Former Clinton Adviser Lanny Davis is Paid Lobbyist for President Who Refuses to Cede Power

www.democracynow.org

..."In October 2011, the International Criminal Court opened an investigation into acts of violence committed during the conflict after the election, and ICC chief prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo visited the country. The ICC formally issued an arrest warrant for Gbagbo, charging him with four counts of crimes against humanity – murder, rape and other forms of sexual violence, persecution and "other inhuman acts", allegedly committed between 16 December 2010 and 12 April 2011"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Gbagbo

Still no outrage or is it copacetic because Lanny's a Democrat?

Brass

No, he is a scumbag. 

[Brasscasing]

No, he is a scumbag. 

Well, that's a start at least.

Brass

[Muzh]

Well, that's a start at least.

Brass

My friend, I have no tolerance for scumbags, be they from the Right, Left or Center. A scumbag is a scumbag, period. 

[Boethius]

Exactly.  But this thread is about the scumbag who didn't care if he ruined Ukraine.

[Muzh]

Exactly.  But this thread is about the scumbag who didn't care if he ruined Ukraine.

Yep, and since I have vested interest here, he is the biggest scumbad of them all. 

[Brasscasing]

Exactly.  But this thread is about the scumbag who didn't care if he ruined Ukraine.

A speculation you have yet to establish.

Brass

[Boethius]

LOL.  I think I have established it.