Putin is Ruining Russia

[Boethius]

What statement?

The one here -

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17860.msg373015#msg373015

One more time- WU always was against Russian- speakers. I remember the time when I was there myself and it was MANY years ago (the times of USSR)They always hated everything Russian.

[fathertime]

Most people read them online, though, and would just link to the "world" section.

No, most people don't read it at all and rely on mainstream news...and on those venues it is barely reported...All the little Q and A sessions i'm not seeing a mention at all.....All that said...a mention on Page 9 isn't much of a mention considering it is a rather big story within the story.  We (the American people) are not getting a proper accounting of what is going on.  I'm not objecting to Ukraine doing what it feels it needs to do...but to not have it mentioned in the mainstream news is noteworthy. 


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

We must travel in different circles.      Even my mother gets most of her news online, on her Ipad.

[fathertime]

FT there is news of it , how much effort have you been putting in to look yourself FGS??

just do a simple google of it , and you will find that info ,

all the world  media are carrying varying accounts of the ukraine crisis , it is a global age you know 


this link below might help you get the human side of it from an australian perspective of the innocent involved in this atrocity

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-18/malaysia-airlines-mh17-australian-victims/5607188

SX

SX, of course it is out there SOMEWHERE...but it hardly anywhere to be seen on the news networks here...very unbalanced.   I could run a search and stories, but that is much different than having it front and center like other aspects of the Ukrainian crisis are...Most Americans would  say that the news has reported that Russia has been firing missiles into Ukraine...but very few would know that Ukraine is launching Ballistic missiles and killing civilians and Separatists in mass.   Again, it is unbalanced.  Of course this is not the only story that is unbalanced.


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

We must travel in different circles.      Even my mother gets most of her news online, on her Ipad.

That is nice...my parents are very elderly and don't have a good internet connection...they get their news from TV. 


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

This is a Western Ukrainian accent (speaking Russian). 

[Doll]

Perhaps, but given that men wearing these ribbons occupied cities and brought in mercenaries inflicting great harm to the citizens of those cities, displaying a St. George's ribbon openly is saying that you side with Strelkov et al. and presumably wish that the same would happen in Odessa or other cities in Ukraine 

St. George ribbon is the symbol of what?
OMG- "wearing openly"!
 

[Boethius]

This is interviews about Ukrainian vs Russian.  Most of these people (other than the ones speaking Russian) are from Western Ukraine.  I can tell by their accents.  The first girl interviewed (at 1 minute) is how I speak Ukrainian, though not so nasally.

If you skip this, watch the last 30 seconds.  Vodka, the great friendship maker.  

[AC]

Putin's has the capability to stop the junta can stop robbing, raping, torturing and killing civilians any time he gives the order.

Better than handing out cookies.

Yes, it would be better than handing out cookies if he did that.

[jone]

OY!

Like a yapping little chihuahua...

Listen, if you do not have the faculty to understand what I have been telling you, it isn't any of my concern.

1. It isn't my fault you have difficulty understanding words in a language you were born into. Nor was it my fault for not having English as my native tongue but had to educate you with it.

2. It isn't my fault being a naturalized citizen of this country having to correct someone like you a native born in this country about the reality of the way we globally do business with everyone else - specifically about your stupid assertion of our *generous attitudes*.

3. It isn't my fault your simple, over idealistic vision of the world is structured within the confines of your secular, self-defecating, overly-simplistic beliefs that the good ol' USA is all about baseball and apple pies. It isn't silly boy.

4. My evidence with which you ask but can't seem to grasp, is all over this thread and had been all over this board -since all of these discussions sprung up going on for months now. If you have difficulty putting one and another on your own, then deal with that alone. I seek no ownership to your inadequacies.

5. My evidence and facts can even be seen in your OWN posts. In your stupid state, you deny something but subliminally state the contrary. How so, you ask? Okay...let me give you a couple samples so you can see it for yourself..

1.
2.
That baby, is as stupid is as stupid does.

Now, so that you don't go crying like a little child again like you have in the past - or maybe you will again - hamper down some and educate yourself a little more. So run along...

Your state of cluelessness is not, and will never be, my cause of priority and concern.

Now deal with that. I've humiliated you enough.

SO,  you admit to having NO facts.  Your insults cannot displace the fact that you HAVE NO FACTS.  This isn't some great guessing game.  Either you can prove your point or you can't.  Obvious to everyone here is that you have NO PROOF.  NONE. 

It is time to stop insulting people and state your case.  Not many here believe that the US was responsible for Maidan.  Most of the honest contributors on here have already stated that.  Perhaps you can find someone on here who believes you.  But I don't. 

Most people who make an argument make a hypothesis and then show facts that support that hypothesis.  Your idea is to talk so much that you think people will believe you.  What a novel thought.

Bring the facts, GQ.  Lay out an argument.  You are obsessed with this forum.  If you want any credibility, whatsoever, then show how the US was involved in Maidan.  Otherwise, the more you talk, the less people believe you.  (That wasn't intended as an insult.  It is simply a fact.)

[AC]

SO,  you admit to having NO facts.  Your insults cannot displace the fact that you HAVE NO FACTS.  This isn't some great guessing game.  Either you can prove your point or you can't.  Obvious to everyone here is that you have NO PROOF.  NONE. 

It is time to stop insulting people and state your case.  Not many here believe that the US was responsible for Maidan.  Most of the honest contributors on here have already stated that.  Perhaps you can find someone on here who believes you.  But I don't. 

Most people who make an argument make a hypothesis and then show facts that support that hypothesis.  Your idea is to talk so much that you think people will believe you.  What a novel thought.

Bring the facts, GQ.  Lay out an argument.  You are obsessed with this forum.  If you want any credibility, whatsoever, then show how the US was involved in Maidan.  Otherwise, the more you talk, the less people believe you.  (That wasn't intended as an insult.  It is simply a fact.)

Don't you know?  Somebody from the USA came to Ukraine and handed out cookies.  Apparently those cookies are a new super weapon from America, more potent than any tanks, BUK missile systems, other heavy weapons, and even mercenaries from Russia!   

[Gator]

Perhaps, but given that men wearing these ribbons occupied cities and brought in mercenaries inflicting great harm to the citizens of those cities, displaying a St. George's ribbon openly is saying that you side with Strelkov et al. and presumably wish that the same would happen in Odessa or other cities in Ukraine 

Thanks Misha. 

I recall when the Iranian students took over the US embassy in Teheran  and held our diplomats hostage.  In support a number of Iranian students in the US held something akin to pep rallies at various locations.  That angered me. 

That evening the news showed a few Texas boys breaking up the rally there and pummeling any Iranian who protested.  So if I were Ukrainian I suppose I too would be angered to see a separatist supporter even if he were passive. 

[southernX]

SX, of course it is out there SOMEWHERE...but it hardly anywhere to be seen on the news networks here...very unbalanced.   I could run a search and stories, but that is much different than having it front and center like other aspects of the Ukrainian crisis are...Most Americans would  say that the news has reported that Russia has been firing missiles into Ukraine...but very few would know that Ukraine is launching Ballistic missiles and killing civilians and Separatists in mass.   Again, it is unbalanced.  Of course this is not the only story that is unbalanced.


Fathertime!   

FT, if your capable of finding this forum , you are more than capable of finding the information that you seek online , YOU just need to apply yourself like the rest of us , to find that balance

their are many online reliable news sources, all of them have storys, links etc
here in australia its not really possible for me to pick up the local london daily mirror , der spegiel ,  kiev post or moscow times , washington post , forbes or daily beast etc etc , so guess what i go online 

SX

[southernX]

Thanks Misha. 

I recall when the Iranian students took over the US embassy in Teheran  and held our diplomats hostage.  In support a number of Iranian students in the US held something akin to pep rallies at various locations.  That angered me. 

That evening the news showed a few Texas boys breaking up the rally there and pummeling any Iranian who protested.  So if I were Ukrainian I suppose I too would be angered to see a separatist supporter even if he were passive.

agree 100%
especially when your citizens are being held hostage , raped beaten and killed by them

SX

[Maxx2]

Don't you know?  Somebody from the USA came to Ukraine and handed out cookies.  Apparently those cookies are a new super weapon from America, more potent than any tanks, BUK missile systems, other heavy weapons, and even mercenaries from Russia!   

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12


John McCain Went To Ukraine And Stood On Stage With A Man Accused Of Being An Anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi
DEC. 16, 2013, 3:23 PM
U.S. Senator John McCain, right, meets Ukrainian opposition leaders Arseniy Yatsenyuk, left, and Oleh Tyahnybok in Kiev, Ukraine, Saturday, Dec. 14, 2013.


If you want a good picture of how complicated the situation in Ukraine is, look no further than Senator John McCain's recent trip to Kyiv.You see, while the former presidential hopeful's weekend trip was full of pro-Europe sound bites — "Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better,” he told a crowd in Kyiv's central Maidan square on Saturday — and warnings of stern reactions from the U.S. should Ukraine use violence against the protesters, there's another detail to it that might cause McCain fans at home some concern.As the U.K.'s Channel 4 news points out, McCain was repeatedly photographed with Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of the right wing nationalist party Svoboda.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12#ixzz390b4Mtfc[/color]


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/27/john-mccain-syria_n_3342897.html


[/size]John McCain Visits Syria To Meet With Rebel Leadership
[/size]The Huffington Post  |  By Mollie Reilly   Posted: 05/27/2013 2:31 pm EDT  |  Updated: 05/28/2013 11:43 am EDT[/size]Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) met with rebel leaders in Syria on Monday, The Daily Beast reported, making the senator the highest ranking U.S. official to visit the country since conflict broke out over two years ago.CNN and Politico confirmed the visit with McCain's office.[/size]While in the country, McCain met with the Free Syrian Army's Supreme Military Council leader Gen. Salem Idris. The Daily Beast's Josh Rogin reports:He stayed in the country for several hours before returning to Turkey. Both in Syria and Turkey, McCain and Idris met with assembled leaders of Free Syrian Army units that traveled from around the country to see the U.S. senator. Inside those meetings, rebel leaders called on the United States to step up its support to the Syrian armed opposition and provide them with heavy weapons, a no-fly zone, and airstrikes on the Syrian regime and the forces of Hezbollah, which is increasingly active in Syria.[/size]“The visit of Senator McCain to Syria is very important and very useful especially at this time,” Idris [/color]told The Daily Beast of the meeting. “We need American help to have change on the ground; we are now in a very critical situation.”[/size]McCain has previously pressured the Obama administration to increase its support for Syrian rebels, calling for "game-changing" action to end the civil war.[/size]"We need to have a game-changing action: No American boots on the ground, establish a safe zone, and protect it and supply weapons to the right people in Syria who are fighting for obviously the things we believe in," McCain said on "Fox News Sunday" earlier this month.

[Boethius]

Here's a UN report on the situation in Ukraine and in Crimea.  Human rights violations against both Tatars and Ukrainians is noted in the report. 


http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_Report_15July2014.pdf

[fathertime]

FT, if your capable of finding this forum , you are more than capable of finding the information that you seek online , YOU just need to apply yourself like the rest of us , to find that balance

their are many online reliable news sources, all of them have storys, links etc
here in australia its not really possible for me to pick up the local london daily mirror , der spegiel ,  kiev post or moscow times , washington post , forbes or daily beast etc etc , so guess what i go online 

SX

SX,  It isn't an issue if I can find information, because of course I can....Most of the general public, isn't that engaged on this issue and they will only hear what is on the news, in the headlines, what is being discussed.   From all the sources I've seen, the information is being presented rather one-sided.  I mean a country launching ballistic missiles and killing it's populace with the Separatists is a pretty big deal...again, I think they have the right to fight the way they want to fight (to a limit of course)...but for that to not be reported it is odd to me...especially considering other aspects of the story which are repeated and are less relevant.   Despite all this, public opinion hasn't changed much here regarding US intervention....the same thing was happened in Syria,and the public was steadfastly against our military intervening. 






Fathertime!   

[southernX]

FT

I mean a country launching ballistic missiles and killing it's populace with the Separatists is a pretty big deal...again, I think they have the right to fight the way they want to fight (to a limit of course)...but for that to not be reported it is odd to me...especially considering other aspects of the story which are repeated and are less relevant. 

FT, the supposed launching of ballistic missiles HAS been reported and refuted within the media

just try typing in UKRAINE BALLISTIC MISSILES =About 815,000 results (0.32 seconds
SO WHERE ARE YOU COMING FROM WITH NOT BEING REPORTED ?

the ukraine military claims it does not have ballistic missiles !
this link below would support that
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ballistic_missiles_by_country

SX

[fathertime]

FT
FT, the supposed launching of ballistic missiles HAS been reported and refuted within the media

just try typing in UKRAINE BALLISTIC MISSILES =About 815,000 results (0.32 seconds
SO WHERE ARE YOU COMING FROM WITH NOT BEING REPORTED ?

the ukraine military claims it does not have ballistic missiles !
this link below would support that
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ballistic_missiles_by_country

SX

Ukraine is denying it?


Here is the CNN report.
Let me know what you think. 


http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/29/ath-starr-officials-ukraine-military-fired-at-rebels.cnn.html


This report came out and then nothing more was said...the story just disappeared....very odd...it was US 'intelligence' that detected the launches so they say. 


Fathertime! 

[jone]

I found this image compelling.

[southernX]

the ukraine military claims it does not have ballistic missiles

FT, so glad you have finally Found the unreported story you where worried about

definitly there is attacks from the ukraine military on the terrorist positions , no doubt about that , otherwise how in the hell would they be wining back ground from them ??
its debatable what weapons there firing and how there classified ,

however if your standing next to the spot that  grendade, howitzer or missile lands on and kills you its all mute point id guess

SX 

[jone]

Thought this one was amusing:

[southernX]

I found this image compelling.

JONE , without the tanks , arnt the sunflower fields amazing , i enjoyed how the flower heads  follow the sun angle no matter where there planted ,

we had big fields of them across from the familys darcha , simply fantastic to look across the fields each day on them 

SX

[fathertime]

FT, so glad you have finally dound the unreported story you where worried about

definitly there is attacks from the ukraine military on the terrorist positions , no doubt about that , otherwise how in the hell would they be wining back ground from them ??
its debatable what weapons there firing and how there classified ,

however if your standing next to the spot that  grendade, howitzer or missile lands on and kills you its all mute point id guess

SX

SX, I had this link all along so I didn't just 'find it'...  It is strange that the story just died...CNN never followed up on the story as far as I can tell.  Nor did any other news organization.  It really looks like the media is suppressing information....because it is 'the good guys' that are doing it....  That is what this next link asserts....along with a longer version of the same CNN piece. 


[size=78%]http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/07/29/us-supported-good-guys-firing-ballistic-missiles-ukraine[/size]


If this turns out to be true, and it appears to be... I think we all should find this sorta of reporting and suppression deeply disturbing...I don't usually believe that stories can be suppressed because it is just too hard, too many people...but I don't see another explanation this time...but maybe you are somebody else does...if so, it would be interesting to hear...I suppose many probably like this sort of dishonestly...


Fathetime!

[GQBlues]

SO,  you admit to having NO facts.  Your insults cannot displace the fact that you HAVE NO FACTS.  This isn't some great guessing game.  Either you can prove your point or you can't.  Obvious to everyone here is that you have NO PROOF.  NONE. 

It is time to stop insulting people and state your case.  Not many here believe that the US was responsible for Maidan.  Most of the honest contributors on here have already stated that.  Perhaps you can find someone on here who believes you.  But I don't. 

Most people who make an argument make a hypothesis and then show facts that support that hypothesis.  Your idea is to talk so much that you think people will believe you.  What a novel thought.

Bring the facts, GQ.  Lay out an argument.  You are obsessed with this forum.  If you want any credibility, whatsoever, then show how the US was involved in Maidan.  Otherwise, the more you talk, the less people believe you.  (That wasn't intended as an insult.  It is simply a fact.)

Credibility to you? You are much too obtuse to understand what I already said. I have rendered numerous 'facts' in support of my conviction all this time. You are just too dense to comprehend.

Nuland's tapped phone call with Pyatt is simply one of them. Incriminating it may be, it is still but one. Her discussed 'design' on who should lead Ukraine in the interim was spot on. Yats sat at the helm while Klitscho and Tyanybok stood still - as discussed on that phone call - and eventually removing their parties, Udar and Svodoba from the parliament to cause its collapse and have an early election to further bolster Poroshenko's position, who coincidentally enough was present during that Yalta shindig held two months prior to the Maidan. Suppression of further investigation of the Kiev massacre, in which Paet's intercepted call to Ashton raises far more than just mere *speculations*.

One was her (Nuland) congressional appearance asking for financial support (why would we financially support someone else's electoral process?).

One of which was the release of Tymoshenko's, a convicted criminal, who had always been an American project (see - I AM Ukrainian).

The agreement made between western gas/oil companies.

The TIPP content of last April's Belgium meeting attended by Obama and leaders of the EU (which EU didn't buy into).

The appointment of Hunter Biden to head Burisma. The ensuing appointment of DC lobbyists, including John Kerry's son-in-law, to accompany and support Hunter's position run Ukraine's gas company.

The US's ever-lacking vital evidentiary presentation in support of Washington's allegations made against Russia. The CIA operatives and advisers dispatch to Ukraine. Did you know when Brenner was in Ukraine and conducted a meeting that members of the SBU was asked to stay downstairs until he was done? The suppression of news illustrating crimes being committed by the UKrainian government against its citizens. The suppression of news about non-governmental military units assembled and sanctioned by the Ukrainian governments that includes foreign military advisors & armed by sources other than government issued weaponry....

The buffoon-nesque nature of responses by Psaki and Harf every single solitary day in the press briefings when confronted with pointed lines of questioning. These, in itself alone, is incriminating enough for me to validate my conviction.

It's all there Chihuahua. You just rather like to bark like a Chihuahua instead of actually doing something that actually carry any significance.

Lastly, no jone, those weren't insult I hurled at you. In case you missed it - again (not surprisingly) - THEY WERE FACTS.  For which I make no apologies for. I call it as I see it!