I'm new and there are no dumb questions, right?

[kp6982]

Hello all,

First post here and relatively new to this whole process.  I've lurked here for quite a while and have spent many hours reading through quite a few trip reports (ML, I/O, Lonedrake etc).  I'm really just looking for some input/advice from more experienced guys here.

I signed up at Elena's about 2 or so months ago and have been in contact with a few different ladies (maybe 10) but I'm mostly just focusing on 1 in particular right now. I know many of you advocate more than one but I've struck out with a few already and am okay with doing one at a time for now.  My biggest issue with the one I'm talking to now is her looks.  She looks like she walked right out of a magazine (slight exaggeration).  When I started I knew I wanted someone who is age appropriate (25-32) and also someone who is kind of in same ballpark in level of attractiveness.  I'm not a bad looking guy but I'm not out there pulling 10's either.  Any of you guys pass on a girl for being too attractive?  Feels silly typing that...

I'm a big fan of "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" but she's given me no reason to believe anything other than what she has said so far.

And finally, is it a waste of time to be searching in that area right now?  This particular girl is in Kherson which seems to be fairly close to much of the action.

Anyways, my name is Kevan.  I'm 32 and work for a tech company just outside of Seattle.  Go Hawks!

Appreciate any input.  Thanks!

[jone]

Welcome to the digital forum, Kevan (Kevin?).  You will find many opinions here.  Here's one:

1.  The best way to evaluate her sincerity is to Skype her and get to know her.  It is like dating in the US. 

2.  Can a woman with model looks (all in the eyes of the beholder) fall for a sincere man?  Absolutely.

3.  BUT:  The likelihood of it happening on your very first at bat is remote.

4.  Kherson is NOT in the thick of things.  Unless Vlad pulls the trigger on an out and out invasion, you should be pretty safe.  If you want more space, meet her away from Kherson where she is more comfortable.

But if you are traveling overseas, ALWAYS have a plan B (and C, and D)

[Faux Pas]

The heart wants, what the heart wants. Are you willing to go the extra mile or out of your comfort zone to get it? Walking out of a magazine is nothing new there guy. If you have the cajones, busta move.

[Photo Guy]

 

Hey Kevan! Welcome to the adventure of getting to know a UW. Yes, do a lot of skype. Communicate a lot. If it feels right, go over there and meet her. Maybe you could meet in Kiev...

[I/O]

Kevan: I've been so long out of the singles scene (thank goodness) that many, probably Mrs I/O included, would consider me clueless but FWIW, I'll tender this....
 
Consistently over the years it has been obvious, to me at least, that the very best investment any new guy can make in this ridiculous caper is to spend $3 or $4K on a fact finding trip with maybe a date or 2 lined up before getting to lost in the "program".
 
If the date(s) go pear shaped, no loss, go sight seeing. What you get out of this may not appear to be much on the surface but IMO is invaluable - you'll then be able to put the "She looks like she walked right out of a magazine" photos in real context, spot the scammers a mile off and sift the BS from these forums (trust me on this, there is plenty of the latter).
 
Disclaimer: For later meetings there are up sides and down sides. "Oh how nice, you have been to RU or UA so you know of our culture etc" and you hear the excitement in her letters which will be followed about 13 nanoseconds later by a snarling "did you meet girls here"???!!!!
 
Dig yourself out of that one however you choose but be sure, meet many though the advisers will preach, no women likes to be or have been second in line. I am very fortunate to be married to a very pragmatic woman who after all of the above (bet your life, we've been there), remarks thus - "honey, there is a time in your life that you know about and I know about and it's better we don't discuss it" which about every 2 years, when you are least expecting it, will be interupted with "who did you meet when you were in XYZ country" - they just can't help themselves LOL.....

[Gator]

Hi Kevan,

 

I/O gives you good advice about getting on a plane soon.....dependent upon our personal circumstances.   


If you have limited free time or  limited discretionary funds, I believe you need to do much more communicating via Skype.

You should be talking every day or every other day.

     -  Sometimes be very serious with conversations about goals, values, the pro-separatist movement (research this huge issue before discussing it).

     -  Sometimes talk about your job, her job, what each of you do during the day, pets, family, etc.

     -  Sometimes have fun conversations.

     -  One time mention that a woman as beautiful as her will have received much attention from UM.   What happened?       [If she is as beautiful as you suggest, you can be sure that young UM, wealthy UM, etc. have tried to romance her.]

     -  Always convince  her of your sincerity - you are at a stage of life where you want to marry.

If she is 1) interesting, 2) fun, 3) compatible and 4) gives you the feeling that she likes you, get on a plane.  Visiting just one woman is splendid and very romantic, especially for younger adults such as the two of you.  Nevertheless, have a backup plan.   

About her beauty.   Be very wary if she makes you think she feels entitled simply because  of her looks.     There are some spoiled princesses in the FSU.

[tfcrew]

                                                                                

[Lily]

My biggest issue with the one I'm talking to now is her looks.  She looks like she walked right out of a magazine (slight exaggeration).  When I started I knew I wanted someone who is age appropriate (25-32) and also someone who is kind of in same ballpark in level of attractiveness.  I'm not a bad looking guy but I'm not out there pulling 10's either.  Any of you guys pass on a girl for being too attractive?  Feels silly typing that...

I'm a big fan of "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" but she's given me no reason to believe anything other than what she has said so far.

   Kevan,
 
As a Russian woman who is now a Canadian, I can tell you that the beauty standards for women in that part of world are much higher than those in Northern America. Since her early years, a little Russian girl knows that her success in life will, to a large extent, be based on her appearance. A 5-6 in Russia might be considered a 7-8 in the U.S. Look at my avatar, this is my actual photo (just a different hair color). For Russia, I'd be considered average, well, may be slightly above average .
 
There is some kind of a belief to use the maganize model looks as an approximate beauty standard, and the women mean it! You got it right - she wants to look like she just stepped out of a magazine!
 
Also, for her profile photos, she most likely gave it some efforts to look her best.
 

[jone]

Lily - Certainly above average - closer to 'Outstanding'.

[Muzh]

Hey dude, welcome.


First be true to yourself and you'll be fine.


Regarding dating "10s" I know from experience many are so damn insecure that they are usually a pain in the ass for a normal guy. They need an equivalent so they can cancel out their insecurities. For a brief period, that is.


Treat the girls out there the same way you would treat the girls here and you'll be fine. The moment you lose sight of reality (e.g., Why Russian/Ukrainian women walk on water and then turn water into wine?) you're toast.


Bon Chance

[JohnDearGreen]

If you are better looking, a better singer, younger, or richer than this 64 yo rock star, you got a chance. Otherwise, stay home.  33 yo model girlfriend.


http://deti.mail.ru/news/64-letnij-aleksandr-gradskij-stanet-otcom/?from=ddeti

[BillyB]

My biggest issue with the one I'm talking to now is her looks.  She looks like she walked right out of a magazine (slight exaggeration).  When I started I knew I wanted someone who is age appropriate (25-32) and also someone who is kind of in same ballpark in level of attractiveness.  I'm not a bad looking guy but I'm not out there pulling 10's either.  Any of you guys pass on a girl for being too attractive? Feels silly typing that...

Welcome to the forum,


I've never passed on a woman because she's a 10 or much more attractive than I. Fortunately for men, they don't have to be a 10 in looks to catch a woman who is a 10 in looks. A guy could be a 10 in personality or character. He may be a 10 in his career and that is attractive to a lot of women who want a successful man.


What do you think your worth is? If you're not a 10 in any category, ask yourself why you haven't tried harder to get there. Someday you may be walking down the street with that gal who came straight out of a magazine and if you feel you're not worthy, she'll sense your lack of confidence and things will fall apart. If you two decide to meet, offer your arm when you walk down the street with her. She'll decide if you're worthy and if you are, you don't have to feel uncomfortable that she's out of your league. Men are much more likely look at her azz instead of yours when you two walk down the street. Can you handle that? If so, proceed with this lady.

[kp6982]

Thank you for all the replies.  I appreciate all of the input.  For some reason I only received one notification of a reply so I thought this message got lost in the clutter. 

I was aware of the difference in looks between the two areas and it's one of the main reasons I've found my way here.  I'm on a local dating site and it has been rough going if you want 25+, active lifestyle, no kids, etc.  Became discouraged and decided to widen my search.

I'd definitely like to get out there at some point this year.  I tried juggling a few girls at a time but I may have mixed some things up or repeated myself in chat and blew it with the girl I most enjoyed speaking with.  I'll have to come up with a better process than just winging it if I try to line up multiple women again.

Anyways, I wanted to keep my initial post brief but I should of mentioned that we have skyped and are in some sort of contact almost everyday.  Usually via email since there is significant time difference. It's new and exciting but like I said her looks have intimidated me which spurred my initial post. I've dated plenty here and I've never had insecurity issues so I'm still working through that.  It subsides a little bit with each interaction.

Again, thanks for the input.  I have a lot to learn.

[Anotherkiwi]

Thank you for all the replies.  I appreciate all of the input.  For some reason I only received one notification of a reply so I thought this message got lost in the clutter. 

I was aware of the difference in looks between the two areas and it's one of the main reasons I've found my way here.  I'm on a local dating site and it has been rough going if you want 25+, active lifestyle, no kids, etc.  Became discouraged and decided to widen my search.

I'd definitely like to get out there at some point this year.  I tried juggling a few girls at a time but I may have mixed some things up or repeated myself in chat and blew it with the girl I most enjoyed speaking with.  I'll have to come up with a better process than just winging it if I try to line up multiple women again.

Anyways, I wanted to keep my initial post brief but I should of mentioned that we have skyped and are in some sort of contact almost everyday.  Usually via email since there is significant time difference. It's new and exciting but like I said her looks have intimidated me which spurred my initial post. I've dated plenty here and I've never had insecurity issues so I'm still working through that.  It subsides a little bit with each interaction.

Again, thanks for the input.  I have a lot to learn.

  to the forum, Kevan!

Her looks may also have intimidated the locals, which could be a reason for her looking overseas for a possible partner or husband.  You stand a much better chance than most of finding someone special in this venture, simply because of your age.  You still have most of your life in front of you, which means that you can take a bit more time to find your "other half" (as RW so often describe it).

My only comment would be in response to yours about blowing it with the one you liked most - make notes as you go, and keep those beside you when you next talk to the lady.  She will appreciate you remembering that her daughter's name is Lydia and that her mother's birthday is the same as your sister's.  If you think that her daughter's name is Igor you're likely to strike out! 

[cc3]

Kevan, you have an excellent attitude, it appears, and I believe you will do well in your search endeavor. As for model-looking women, the norm for attractiveness in Ukraine is immeasurably higher than in the US, where being nearly slovenly appears to be the norm for liberated American females. I live in Lviv, Ukraine and everyday I see ordinary (for Ukraine) but model-looking women strolling the sidewalks on their daily activities. They are usually unaccompanied or with a female companion. The men here take all the beauty for granted, and do not try to match the level of attractiveness that their women strive for (the men: pot bellies, white belts and shoes, pointy-toed elf shoes, absurd wardrobe combinations, peddle pusher shorts, sandals and socks, men's purses ('murses') slung over their shoulders or carried, daintily, in their hands, lime green or lemon yellow 'trainers'...pseudo running shoes...they are sights to behold!)

Have fun! Exploring here can be a real adventure, with the right mindset.

[Patagonie]

After i went to the east, i shifted my whole attractiveness scale of minus 0.5 in disfavor of any western females.
So the french 9 became 8.5, the 7+ left my book and so on.
More you will date and more you will be acquainted with beauty, and more natural you will be, which indeed will improve your own seduction.

[Drew]

I would avoid any 10s   except for Heidi Klum. 

She is just unbelieveable looking  and after 4 kids no less.

And she seems like she would be friendly with anyone.

Maybe its just a good act tho.

[Anotherkiwi]

I would avoid any 10s   except for Heidi Klum. 

She is just unbelieveable looking  and after 4 kids no less.

Sorry, but after going to the FSU I wouldn't rate Heidi Klum as a 10 (I don't think I did beforehand, anyway).  I made a point quite some time ago that I would see maybe one woman a month here that I might rate as a 9+ - in Moscow I saw at least one, often more, on every single Metro trip that I made.

[kp6982]

I've been putting a bit more effort into meeting other people as backup plans with the intention of taking a 3 week trip in late-September.  I've now received the response that skyping is not an option because her computer does not have a video camera twice now.  Is that common?  They're on a website looking for a serious relationship and you can't drop a couple bucks on a camera?  Seems like a good investment if you are serious about it.  One offered up phone calls as an alternative but who knows who I'm talking to.

I checked my forum stats and I've spent 21 hours reading threads on here and I'm still baffled by things I'm come across everyday.

[Shadow]

I've been putting a bit more effort into meeting other people as backup plans with the intention of taking a 3 week trip in late-September.  I've now received the response that skyping is not an option because her computer does not have a video camera twice now.  Is that common?  They're on a website looking for a serious relationship and you can't drop a couple bucks on a camera?  Seems like a good investment if you are serious about it.  One offered up phone calls as an alternative but who knows who I'm talking to.

I checked my forum stats and I've spent 21 hours reading threads on here and I'm still baffled by things I'm come across everyday.

It is very possible to use Skype without a video camera. As for phone calls, while not perfect it will still let you hear her voice. Besides if the tells you she does not have a phone you can cancel all further contact at once.

[kp6982]

It is very possible to use Skype without a video camera. As for phone calls, while not perfect it will still let you hear her voice. Besides if the tells you she does not have a phone you can cancel all further contact at once.

Oh, as an alternative to paying for an international call?  That's a good idea I didn't think of.

[Faux Pas]

Her not having at least some access to a camera for Skype is a bit odd and a caution. Does she speak English? Phone calls are better than nothing but, unless she has good English skills it won't help further a relationship much. IMO, if she were truly interested in "you" she would find a camera to use or buy one. The chances are pretty good she has one on her phone. I'd suggest that you move on to the next one.

[Shadow]

Her not having at least some access to a camera for Skype is a bit odd and a caution. Does she speak English? Phone calls are better than nothing but, unless she has good English skills it won't help further a relationship much. IMO, if she were truly interested in "you" she would find a camera to use or buy one. The chances are pretty good she has one on her phone. I'd suggest that you move on to the next one.

It is almost certain she has one on her phone, however not every phone is easy to use as webcam, and Skype on a GSM is only an option if you got a lot of data for free.

[Faux Pas]

It is almost certain she has one on her phone, however not every phone is easy to use as webcam, and Skype on a GSM is only an option if you got a lot of data for free.

Agreed but, if she were interested, she'd pay for the data

[Anotherkiwi]

Agreed but, if she were interested, she'd pay for the data

True - data plans (and calling plans) in the FSU are dirt cheap.