Visit One or Visit Many

[2tallbill]

You mentioned this twice. 

I don't understand where my method throws away good matches before I meet her.

You winnow the list of gals down each week and end up with 15-20 at the beginning of your trip.

You winnow the field down to 15-20 during your email exchange campaign.
You might have had mutual chemistry with some of those that you winnowed
out who might not be interested in writing emails.

There are a lot of FSUW who would rather work in the salt mines than
exchange emails and their mediocre response would get them winnowed.

However, if you asked those same FSUW salt miners if they wanted
to meet in the flesh for tea and cake (if you want to sweeten the deal)
many would be very interested.

My tactic is to meet a large number of FSUW first to see if there is a
spark. No sparks then, no go. The only way to tell if there are sparks
is face to face.

A secondary advantage to my system is it works very well for a
back up plan for those who only visit one and they find out that
they chose the wrong girl. Rather than sit in the corner and suck
their thumb till it's all white and wrinkly they can implement my
system and possibly salvage their trip.

[Larry1]

You winnow the field down to 15-20 during your email exchange campaign.
You might have had mutual chemistry with some of those that you winnowed
out who might not be interested in writing emails.

There are a lot of FSUW who would rather work in the salt mines than
exchange emails and their mediocre response would get them winnowed.

However, if you asked those same FSUW salt miners if they wanted
to meet in the flesh for tea and cake (if you want to sweeten the deal)
many would be very interested.

My tactic is to meet a large number of FSUW first to see if there is a
spark. No sparks then, no go. The only way to tell if there are sparks
is face to face.

A secondary advantage to my system is it works very well for a
back up plan for those who only visit one and they find out that
they chose the wrong girl. Rather than sit in the corner and suck
their thumb till it's all white and wrinkly they can implement my
system and possibly salvage their trip.

I want to add to the last paragraph of Bill's post. I'm a WOVO guy and my trips have usually been successful. But one was a failure. I did not have great confidence that things would succeed with the girl I went to visit so I had a few backups (I think it was four). Unfortunately, they were all in different cities. After I found out that things weren't working out with the girl I went to see I turned to my backups. I realized that with travel time between even a couple of these cities factored in, I could see at most two of these girls before I had to leave. If one girl had seemed head and shoulders above the rest I would have gone to visit her, but none of these girls really stood out. So I scrambled around writing to girls in the city in which I was located. This resulted in a few dates, but the only promising one came the day before I had to leave.

I think one of the lessons is to have your backups be in the same city or at least nearby cities. And plan like you're planning the D-Day invasion.

Earlier today I chatted with a guy who is going to visit one girl. The topic of backups arose.  He said that he didn't have any backups because he thought it would reflect badly on his level of commitment to the girl he was visiting. I would probably have felt the same way about two girls I visited (not on the same trip).

[northkape]

Yes, I think what ML is suggesting, is the best answer in this thread,,

If you know exactly what you are looking for, are determined and wants results now, a WMVM is the only way to go in my opinion.
It's quite simply just a numbers game, and then finding the most effective way of doing it.
And writing at least for a couple of weeks with a woman is necessary if it is possible, because it helps to avoid visiting the wrong women for coffee dates.
Also, renting a car and moving within a limited geographical area around a large city will give you more quality results than any other way.

I had very good chemistry with 2 out of 3 of those I met with, and probably could have been happily married with several of them.
Still I kept looking for a woman that had almost all of the personality features I was looking for, within my given time frame of 2 years.

And I agree with ML,, finding time for Skype with a large amount of women is not possible to handle, can be reserved for a select few favorites.
Just arrange for more dates than you are able to handle, that will keep you busy and you won't loose time on the "dropouts" and "No Show". 

Look at my thread here:  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.0

[msmobyone]

a WMVM is the only way to go in my opinion.
It's quite simply just a numbers game, and then finding the most effective way of doing it.

 


It's a little more than a 'numbers game' .. we are talking about finding a women to share - hopefully - the rest of your life with.

WMVM constrains you to geographic locations - where you can physically meet the most ladies - it is a bizarre constraint.  Isn't better to visit someone that excites you ?

And writing at least for a couple of weeks with a woman is necessary if it is possible, because it helps to avoid visiting the wrong women for coffee dates.
Also, renting a car and moving within a limited geographical area around a large city will give you more quality results than any other way.

I don't know what sort  of ladies will 'happily' / 'readily ' be on a list of dates.   I met women who had NEVER - I believe them - met a western guy - as they so often NEVER get on the plane - or they refused to meet as they weren't going to play the 'numbers game' .

Renting a car ....  hmm - if you are in a city - it is often quicker to take the bus / walk and parking is a NIGHTMARE in many FSU cities..  I do NOT recommend hiring a car in most circumstances, there.

I had very good chemistry with 2 out of 3 of those I met with, and probably could have been happily married with several of them.
Still I kept looking for a woman that had almost all of the personality features I was looking for, within my given time frame of 2 years.

More 'time frames'?  I'm wondering if you aren't placing unreasonable hurdles ....  If we get the process wrong - it can be painful for both parties  - deadlines are a 'no, no' to me, now 

And I agree with ML,, finding time for Skype with a large amount of women is not possible to handle, can be reserved for a select few favorites.
Just arrange for more dates than you are able to handle, that will keep you busy and you won't loose time on the "dropouts" and "No Show". 

   Totally, the wrong way around ... IMHO .. What's a 'no show' and why do you get them ? .. NEVER had one ...  THAT is the important question ... it's the result of a scatter-gun selection process and you might let the one you want - get away.  SKYPE allows both parties to see if there is a wish to meet in reality .. it is a NIGHTMARE if you are WM as the ladies aren't stupid .. they may call you to see if you are chatting up someone else


Once again, MANY, many guys say they've done WMVM and are happily married.. there is no 'right way'... just what works for individuals

I was seeking a partner in their late thirties / early 40's nine years ago and my preference  - before finding svietik.coral was mid to late forties.

May be younger lasses would 'go ' for being a line-up...   


My response is not trying to be confrontational - I apologise if it seems that way. This is the most serious enterprise and it is suppose to be fun.

 I have made mistakes and I want guys who DO get on the plane to minimise disappointment

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, I think what ML is suggesting, is the best answer in this thread,,

If you know exactly what you are looking for, are determined and wants results now, a WMVM is the only way to go in my opinion.
It's quite simply just a numbers game, and then finding the most effective way of doing it.
And writing at least for a couple of weeks with a woman is necessary if it is possible, because it helps to avoid visiting the wrong women for coffee dates.
Also, renting a car and moving within a limited geographical area around a large city will give you more quality results than any other way.

I had very good chemistry with 2 out of 3 of those I met with, and probably could have been happily married with several of them.
Still I kept looking for a woman that had almost all of the personality features I was looking for, within my given time frame of 2 years.

And I agree with ML,, finding time for Skype with a large amount of women is not possible to handle, can be reserved for a select few favorites.
Just arrange for more dates than you are able to handle, that will keep you busy and you won't loose time on the "dropouts" and "No Show". 

Look at my thread here:  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.0

Why would you skype with a large number of women?  Surely, in your current scenario, you are whittling down the women quickly through correspondence.  Why are you not able to do the same and then use Skype to further your search until you found one or two women to visit? 


As Moby mentioned, you wouldn't be locked into a geographical area.


So far, I haven't seen any evidence to prove that visiting many women is the best.  Also, I don't believe ML met his wife that way yet he is sure that is the way to do it. 


To me, this sounds more like some guys wanting to date multiple women.  I don't have a problem with it, I just don't understand why some are trying to dress this up as the best way to meet the one.   If meeting the one was the goal, you would want to do more work prior to getting boots on the ground so you can spend more time with that one person. 

[TagUrIt898]

For me this process has been emailing several women to find the ONE I'm most interested in.  Most of the times, people eliminate themselves over time and you realize who you want to try with.  I plan to visit one at the end of April and I DO NOT have a back-up plan or other prospects.  I'm more than okay with that,  I believe if you want success, you have to invest in what you're doing.  It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't start this process if I didn't feel that there was a high outcome of things working out.  In the end, I think everyone has to do what they're most comfortable with and what works best for them.

[2tallbill]

I plan to visit one at the end of April and I DO NOT have a back-up plan or other prospects.  I'm more than okay with that,  I believe if you want success, you have to invest in what you're doing.  It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't start this process if I didn't feel that there was a high outcome of things working out.  In the end, I think everyone has to do what they're most comfortable with and what works best for them.

You could set up an account on Mamba.ru and if things don't work out then you can
call other girls to see if they would like to have a cup of coffee or tea. A backup plan
doesn't have to be a specific girl, but being able to start writing letters would be a
good idea.

I've had things not work out when I really thought that they would. I wish you the best
but it does happen.

Udachi!

Bill

[2tallbill]

WMVM constrains you to geographic locations - where you can physically meet the most ladies - it is a bizarre constraint.  Isn't better to visit someone that excites you ?

May be younger lasses would 'go ' for being a line-up...   

As for the line up, that only happens in a tour situation. Having coffee to see if you
have chemistry before writing letters is just a different way to go about things.
Some people aren't letter writers, trying to get them to be letter writers isn't going
to happen. There are plenty of girl who don't like writing letters too.

Those girls might be serious but after they returned your 4th email with a three line
response you might kick them to the curb but these girls would still be viable fit for
the guys who don't like writing letters either. Everybody has the goal to get down to
just one girl, the visit many guys want to do this in person and the visit one guys like
to do it from a distance.

Just different strokes for different folks.

Udachi!

Bill

[Faux Pas]

You could set up an account on Mamba.ru and if things don't work out then you can
call other girls to see if they would like to have a cup of coffee or tea. A backup plan
doesn't have to be a specific girl, but being able to start writing letters would be a
good idea.

I've had things not work out when I really thought that they would. I wish you the best
but it does happen.

Udachi!

Bill

Agreed. A back up plan doesn't even need to be a woman at all. A good back up plan would be familiarity with the city you're visiting. Tour guides, landmarks, drivers, restaurants, etc.. Places to go and things to do to occupy your time if the situation with the woman does at any point go titts up. You need something to do with your time and salvage the trip and have a good time regardless. Although, it wouldn't hurt to have the phone number and location of a local agency, either.

When you are going places and doing things, even if you are alone you'll be putting yourself in position to meet people and specifically, women who want to meet you.

I don't know why a back up plan to many or most, here, believe it must be other women you've met online and prepared to play hide the salami with. If the VO you've planned to meet goes South, you need do nothing more than put yourself "out there" and more women will come. It doesn't require dashing good looks or a rock hard body. Just a decent disposition, a willingness to interact with people and ability to "put yourself out there"

[msmobyone]

As for the line up, that only happens in a tour situation. Having coffee to see if you
have chemistry before writing letters is just a different way to go about things.
Some people aren't letter writers, trying to get them to be letter writers isn't going
to happen. There are plenty of girl who don't like writing letters too.

Those girls might be serious but after they returned your 4th email with a three line
response you might kick them to the curb but these girls would still be viable fit for
the guys who don't like writing letters either. Everybody has the goal to get down to
just one girl, the visit many guys want to do this in person and the visit one guys like
to do it from a distance.

Just different strokes for different folks.

Udachi!

Bill

Hi Bill,

Yup different strokes...

Svietik.coral has a friend who now lives in the US and the friend said, '' join a site that will attract western men..'' S.C was 'another' FSU women who believed w.men were more suitable partners.

That was a year and half ago and she gave up checking the account after a year of guys writing elequent prose and promisng to come....

I found her profile and realised it was pointless to write there and searched the RU lang social media sites . I cannot emphasise enough how valuable a resource this can be  ... if the lady has registered.

She HATES writing letters and I wondered if she was 'lacking in education' - but she simply had given up with on-line dating.


That speaks volumes about the preception some women have about western men, now...If they are all 'scammers' we are all 'keyboard romeos' ...

This isn't rocket science... A woman appreciates if you show her respect and interest ... they aren't daft .... if you contact them when you are already on the ground  - you will have to be honest that your 'plan A' bombed.

If you have corresponded regularly on Skype, you should have a pretty good feeling about them. I talked to a few ladies - all of whom would have been great company. My 'stroke' is to put faith in my instinct / intuition ..

It helps being confident in speaking the  lingo - even if it is grammatically awful. The fact we try is appreciated.

So many guys don't bother to learn a few important phrases.  I know what it is like to arrive in Russia and to notunderstand 9/10 words the lady says..a disaster.. but SO many guys have proved that this need not be a barrier. IF there is chemistry - you'll know it......

I simply do not understand men or ladies who feel the need to know why they were 'rejected' or feel they might be being 'scammed' and need to investigate if the person is real......


IF they are in to you ... you KNOW...

I know of someone married for 5 years - the lady is a friend of my ex .  The guy came a LONG way to meether and was on a 'visit one'  trip...


The lady's initial impression was that she wouldbe politefor the 14 days he was scheduled to stay  - as his 'looks' disappointed her ..... they were engaged before he left and are still happily married.

There are no 'rules' .. every couple is unique .... how they behave is based on their characters and past experiences. Many attractive ladies get hundreds of letters and become bored....   

We simply need to act.......





 

[2tallbill]

Hi Bill,

Yup different strokes...

She HATES writing letters and I wondered if she was 'lacking in education' - but she simply had given up with on-line dating.

Writing letters in English are a lot of work for girls even with good English. So when
a girl gets letters from a dozen guys it takes quite a bit of work for her to respond
intelligently and writing lengthy letters to a bunch of probable keyboard Romeos
surely doesn't appeal to every Russian girl.

Some men have pretty marginal grammar, spelling, word usage etc. I think that these men might be excellent candidates for just getting on a plane, travel to a city and have
meetings with coffee and cake. Trying to translate bad spelling is nearly impossible with
even the best translation programs. I'm not going to identify anyone by name, but there
is a guy who makes lengthy posts at another forum and he obviously uses a spell check
because all his words are spelled right but he can't even select the correct word he thinks
he should be using  I can't imagine a girl trying to figure out what he writes.

I make plenty of mistakes myself, but back when I was writing letters I would triple
check my letters and often times I would translate it to Russian then translate it back
to English to see if it still made any sense. Often times just changing or substituting a
word or two can make an entire letter much easier to translate.

[Patagonie]

...For YOU .. may be 

If you get some sort of 'thrill' from being sat oppositie many differnt ladies - allocating time slots... over a short period of time   

It also depends on the lady. My ex-wife rejected those who were on vm trips as 'not serious' 

There's no right way, just what works for both the man and the lady.

Your ex wife told you that she rejected who were on vm trips but like most of the women, between writing to some keyboard romeo  for month and knowing that she has a possibility to meet a foreigner in her city who seems enough good on photos,
Lets me tell you what is  the real story.
SImple, most of them will  meet the guy, even if they have a BF (so please about the seriousness of women stop, some are, some aren't, and many are enough  curious to let them a margin to fall in love).


80% of men believe that the WOVO or WMVO is the best solution but ALL men can practice the WMVM provided that they limit their communication one mont prior the trip and they stop to masturbate with the profiles they couldn't stop staring every evening and if they could stop to stick their heart on it.
That the problem of men generally, they are too much sentimental with Skype and photos, they think that internet relationships are a project

I have to help remembering that ML and I, long time ago met around 12 women during 3 or 4 weeks, each of us. Of course we started with our top 3 prior the trip. Guess what, after the travel, NONE were still on the list.

I have never really wanted to believe all pros with whom i talked : all told me the same : you should meet more, meet this one, no don't stop with this one yet. And you wanna know the truth? They were perfectly right.

The only thing is that when you have a real relationship, i mean a commited physical and sentimental relationship, WITH the SAME RECIPROCAL engagment from the women (and not the stupid "i feel engaged" because i would feel guilty to meet three even but still we never meet,  if you have such problem with guilt at this stage of NO relationships (strictly nothing happened) so please see a shrink)
 so you must GO UNIQUE and drop the others ladies and focus on this one till something clearly show that you are on the wrong way.
especially if this woman has the main qualities that you expect and is clearly devoted to catch you

And people who know are aware that i did two VO So don't call me heretic 

[msmobyone]

Your ex wife told you that she rejected who were on vm trips but like most of the women, between writing to some keyboard romeo  for month and knowing that she has a possibility to meet a foreigner in her city who seems enough good on photos,
Lets me tell you what is  the real story.
SImple, most of them will  meet the guy, even if they have a BF (so please about the seriousness of women stop, some are, some aren't, and many are enough  curious to let them a margin to fall in love).

Patagonie, you are making the - all too common - mistake of confusing the some women with the majority.

We are not naive enough to believe that we might be the only guy 'making a play', but actually VISITING - without having a 'plan B' makes a statement that impresses......

80% of men believe that the WOVO or WMVO is the best solution but ALL men can practice the WMVM provided that they limit their communication one mont prior the trip and they stop to masturbate with the profiles they couldn't stop staring every evening and if they could stop to stick their heart on it.
That the problem of men generally, they are too much sentimental with Skype and photos, they think that internet relationships are a project

  I may recognise your 'guy', but this individual simply prefers another way.... I went to where the one that interested me the most lives - not where I can line up the most 'candidates'.

I have to help remembering that ML and I, long time ago met around 12 women during 3 or 4 weeks, each of us. Of course we started with our top 3 prior the trip. Guess what, after the travel, NONE were still on the list.

I have never really wanted to believe all pros with whom i talked : all told me the same : you should meet more, meet this one, no don't stop with this one yet. And you wanna know the truth? They were perfectly right.

The only thing is that when you have a real relationship, i mean a commited physical and sentimental relationship, WITH the SAME RECIPROCAL engagment from the women (and not the stupid "i feel engaged" because i would feel guilty to meet three even but still we never meet,  if you have such problem with guilt at this stage of NO relationships (strictly nothing happened) so please see a shrink)
 so you must GO UNIQUE and drop the others ladies and focus on this one till something clearly show that you are on the wrong way.
especially if this woman has the main qualities that you expect and is clearly devoted to catch you

And people who know are aware that i did two VO So don't call me heretic 

This 'heretic' - tried VM and it did his head in.... Skype wasn't as popular, then and internet connectivity wasn't always that good.

It allows you to 'meet' several times and get past the 'awkward stage' and when you meet in reality it can allow the initial meeting in reality phase 'shock' to pass quickly and you can speak as if you've dated many times.

In my case, speaking Russian to a near conversational level - but with awful prononciation and grammar - helps and I may be basing my 'advice' based on that ....

As to my 'ex' - she told me that she was in contact with other guys - who were writing and wanted her to meet them in another city  - a clear sign - they couldn't be bothered to visit her in Siberia - as she was an 'inconvenient' place compared to the other dates lined up 

This act of 'committment' impressed and I based my preference based on the reaction of the sort of women I've met.

One tends to choose a partner that shares many of your viewpoints..

[LAman]

So lets review how (in my not at all humble opinion) to do a visit many trip.
1. You write one letter to the girl. Two letters only under duress.
2. You meet the girl for coffee.
3. Unless this girl knocks your socks off and seems very interested in you she
gets kicked to the curb.
4. NEVER date her again
5. meet another girl or write letters to meet another girl
6. When you find a super girl pursue her.
7. Kick all liars, cheats etc to the curb
8. Any girl who is not a super girl is a reject girl. Repeat after me KICK HER TO THE CURB!
9. Don't be a goofball
10. Rinse and repeat 1-9 until you find a super girl.

Great ..........a wovo telling guys how to have a wmvm trip. Advise based on personal experience only, please!!))

[jone]

I read the poll again.  I think many of us are not telling the truth.

I have known many men who go to the FSU for a meeting with one woman.  They don't think about the backup plan until their relationship is in tatters.    I wonder how many are being honest with themselves?

[alex330]

I have known many men who go to the FSU for a meeting with one woman.  They don't think about the backup plan until their relationship is in tatters.   

Agreed. My backup plan happened spur of the moment AFTER I arrived in Ukraine.

[jone]

Yeah, you sure settled for the dregs of Ukraine.  Next time do a WMVM and you won't wind up with who you wound up with.

[alex330]

Yeah, you sure settled for the dregs of Ukraine.  Next time do a WMVM and you won't wind up with who you wound up with.

If you had signed up for my Ebook you could have been as lucky. 

[2tallbill]

Great ..........a wovo telling guys how to have a wmvm trip. Advise based on personal experience only, please!!))

First, I don't expect you to know all about my experiences or history, if you have
a question feel free to ask, or you could assume you know and probably get it wrong.

Second, my advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it, which is nothing.
Everyone should take any advice here with a grain of salt. 

Third Lets review a few definitions down why don't we? 
WOVO = write one visit one and
WMVM = write many visit many.

Visit one indicates visiting only one girl and visiting many indicates visiting
more than one.

Fourth let's review my history for posterity
I visited one on my trip to Odessa.
I visited many on next trip to Kiev
I visited many on the following trip to Kiev
I visited one on my next trip which was to Lugansk
I visited many on my next trip to St Petersburg
I visited one on my following trip to Dnepropetrovsk
I visited many on my trip to Tblisi
I visited one on my next trip to Portland Oregon
I visited many on my next trip to Voronezh Until I met Angel Eyes
Then the following trips were visit one to pursue my wife exclusively until I was
married.

That's the Cliff notes version

[LAman]

Bill, glad you clarified some but you chose earlier visit 1 with backup plan. ( a WOVO)

Visiting many means little if your intention was to visit 1 and it TURNED into a visit many. I don't know if this happened to you. Most of my trips were WMVM from the beginning with that intention. Now, I was seeing a girl a few times which to some here is WOVO but it was a gf relationship which to me is different.

BTW-I am happy you finally find your women!!! You were pretty spread out in your search

[2tallbill]

Bill, glad you clarified some but you chose earlier visit 1 with backup plan. ( a WOVO)

Visiting many means little if your intention was to visit 1 and it TURNED into a visit many. I don't know if this happened to you. Most of my trips were WMVM from the beginning with that intention. Now, I was seeing a girl a few times which to some here is WOVO but it was a gf relationship which to me is different.

Yes, several of my visit many trips were conversions from a visit one as my backup plan.
My two trips to Kiev were visit many from the start.

BTW-I am happy you finally find your women!!! You were pretty spread out in your search

Thanks,

Bill