First bump in the road

[2tallbill]

Hi guys,

Well I guess this was to be expected, little things that sadden her.  So this afternoon she gets quiet and goes for a walk herself.  I knew something was bothering her and after some convincing to get it out of her, I finally got the answer.

Any suggestions, guys?

Ken,

It sounds like classic culture shock.

Culture shock: is the personal disorientation a person may feel when experiencing an
unfamiliar way of life due to immigration or a visit to a new country, a move between
social environments, or simply travel to another type of life.


Here is the only thread I could find on culture shock. The OP linked to an article that I could no longer find.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1936.msg38874#msg38874

There is an author who wrote a book about pursuing and marrying an FSUW. It's pretty
good except for the section on agencies is a little out of date. He has a small section about
culture shock in it and you can find it on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Bride-Guide-Stuart-Smith/dp/0955687403


Here are some articles on the subject

http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-and-how-to-beat-them/


http://studyabroad.uncg.edu/index.cfm?FuseAction=Abroad.ViewLink&Parent_ID=A80D5B59-AA4D-15A6-E5DDC6A5F2566BDE&Link_ID=B2E2ACBC-E64C-9B58-6BC68A8B2295E9FF&pID=9&lID=18


http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Culture-Shock-in-a-Foreign-Country


http://gadling.com/2010/05/24/ten-ways-to-deal-with-culture-shock/

[Boethius]

Hmm, not certain I would attribute being upset about being called a babushka to culture shock.

[Muzh]

Well, culture shock to him anyway. 

[2tallbill]

Hmm, not certain I would attribute being upset about being called a babushka to culture shock.

No, but her not catching that he was joking could be attributed to it.
It's possible it's something else but it sure sounds like it from what
I've read and seen about it. Angel Eyes has been in the US for a year
now and knock on wood hasn't had any as far as I could tell but our
teenager Smiley Girl certainly did.

I think that some of our experienced members talking about how they
dealt with it could be a beneficial topic for a new thread. Newbies need
to know what most girls go through especially since I didn't find much
when I did a search on it.

[ML]

Ochka didn't experience any cultural shock that caused her discomfort.

Biggest things seemed to be:

1) How fat many (most) women are, and many teenage girls also.  Yes, males also, but that doesn't cause her to comment.

2) How friendly most everyone is.

3) How nice most wealthy people are and how they do such things as their own yard work, minor house repairs, shop at WalMart, etc.  In Ukraine, wealth and power is accompanied by much snobbery.

We were at a University picnic a couple of weeks ago.  After talking with a man who sat beside her for 20 minutes while eating, she was surprised when I later told her he was a former University president.

[Faux Pas]

No, but her not catching that he was joking could be attributed to it.
It's possible it's something else but it sure sounds like it from what
I've read and seen about it. Angel Eyes has been in the US for a year
now and knock on wood hasn't had any as far as I could tell but our
teenager Smiley Girl certainly did.

I think that some of our experienced members talking about how they
dealt with it could be a beneficial topic for a new thread. Newbies need
to know what most girls go through especially since I didn't find much
when I did a search on it.

TooTall, I don't really get your connection of how you deduced culture shock from Ken's story? Pretty much by his own admission he called her a babushka and asked insignificant questions that could be easily construed by a newly arrived RW as belittling. Her reaction to that doesn't strike me as culture shock either. I wasn't knocking or bashing Ken or his approach, just merely attempting to explain how his actions could be perceived. If he want's to think I was, that's okay too. A newly arrived soon to be wife is going to cling to his every word, analyze and re-analyze whereas an AW probably wouldn't have given it much thought

[Gator]

What happened the first day is probably more about jet lag than culture shock.  Ken did write the next day that "all is good." 

IMO culture shock manifests itself later after accumulating several experiences in the strange land and  realizing just how different life  will be. 

All of the advice given to Ken was good.  Ken should at least consider all of it  regardless of how presented and explained,  and then decide what is best for his particular situation.

[calmissile]

TooTall, I don't really get your connection of how you deduced culture shock from Ken's story? Pretty much by his own admission he called her a babushka and asked insignificant questions that could be easily construed by a newly arrived RW as belittling. Her reaction to that doesn't strike me as culture shock either. I wasn't knocking or bashing Ken or his approach, just merely attempting to explain how his actions could be perceived. If he want's to think I was, that's okay too. A newly arrived soon to be wife is going to cling to his every word, analyze and re-analyze whereas an AW probably wouldn't have given it much thought

True, especially if she is not fluent in English.  I noticed this as well.  It's all my wife had available to use to understand me was the English words themselves and sometimes a poor translation at that.  The first couple of months seemed to be the most critical for us.  Once she got comfortable with my personality, she was less inclined to bristle up without first getting a clarification as to what I meant by some comment.  It gets better with time.   As I mentioned earlier, her feeling welcome, comfortable and loved was important to how she behaved in the beginning.

[2tallbill]

TooTall, I don't really get your connection of how you deduced culture shock from Ken's story? Pretty much by his own admission he called her a babushka and asked insignificant questions that could be easily construed by a newly arrived RW as belittling. Her reaction to that doesn't strike me as culture shock either. I wasn't knocking or bashing Ken or his approach, just merely attempting to explain how his actions could be perceived. If he want's to think I was, that's okay too. A newly arrived soon to be wife is going to cling to his every word, analyze and re-analyze whereas an AW probably wouldn't have given it much thought

I don't know anything except what I have been reading here, so who knows maybe I'm
reading it totally wrong. I don't think he would have posted here if she usually responded
this way at his joking.

I have at least a hundred ways that I joke around with Angel Eyes. Some of them would
certainly be quite offensive if she took me seriously. For example, she was complaining
one day about some kind of malady I forget what it was, let's say her knee was stiff. So
I jokingly said that I needed to trade her in for a newer sportier model and she laughed
and made a similar joke about me being old and probably worn out not unlike a racehorse
with a broken leg (that needed to be put down).
 
If I started a thread about that conversation the perpetually offended peanut gallery types
would have labeled me as XYZ hater of women and blah, blah, blah. However, we joke like
this on a regular basis. If for some reason she took it wrongly, I would have explained that
I was joking (shutka) or teasing (drasnit) and she wouldn't have been offended. 

So maybe I jumped to conclusions with the limited information here but my conclusion
was that she would have normally not been offended and my next conclusion that I
jumped to was that the not normal response was due to being irritation caused by being
in unfamiliar circumstances. Am I wrong? it's surely possible. However he does have a
wife who will probably at some time suffer from this and both him and the lurkers need
to be aware of these possibilities in the future.

[2tallbill]

What happened the first day is probably more about jet lag than culture shock.  Ken did write the next day that "all is good." 

I didn't realize that this happened so closely to her arrival.

[Faux Pas]

I don't know anything except what I have been reading here, so who knows maybe I'm
reading it totally wrong. I don't think he would have posted here if she usually responded
this way at his joking.

I have at least a hundred ways that I joke around with Angel Eyes. Some of them would
certainly be quite offensive if she took me seriously. For example, she was complaining
one day about some kind of malady I forget what it was, let's say her knee was stiff. So
I jokingly said that I needed to trade her in for a newer sportier model and she laughed
and made a similar joke about me being old and probably worn out not unlike a racehorse
with a broken leg (that needed to be put down).
 
If I started a thread about that conversation the perpetually offended peanut gallery types
would have labeled me as XYZ hater of women and blah, blah, blah. However, we joke like
this on a regular basis. If for some reason she took it wrongly, I would have explained that
I was joking (shutka) or teasing (drasnit) and she wouldn't have been offended. 

So maybe I jumped to conclusions with the limited information here but my conclusion
was that she would have normally not been offended and my next conclusion that I
jumped to was that the not normal response was due to being irritation caused by being
in unfamiliar circumstances. Am I wrong? it's surely possible. However he does have a
wife who will probably at some time suffer from this and both him and the lurkers need
to be aware of these possibilities in the future.

Yeah I think so. I don't see culture shock at all. More misunderstanding and largely on her part and innocent but, that is to be expected. It is incumbent on him to stop and think through clearly before speaking to her and how it might be perceived. Find a way to temper everything with a lot of sugar. I failed miserably at this when my wife first arrived. I know where he's coming from and I'm surprised she hung around after much of it.

[TagUrIt898]

Hey Ken, a few bumps in the road should be expected. For me, it's all about communicating. You two just went on am incredible journey to get her here and the real journey is actually just beginning. Be patient with her and maybe a lot more understanding than you've ever been with anyone in your life.  Even though you two love and know that each other, this is ALL very new for the both of you. (Facts I'm sure you already know btw)

Just a quick share, when Polina and I were in Turkey we got into a pretty bad fight, but we worked it out by talking. We both agreed that being in love online and being in love in person are two COMPLETELY different things! LOL

I've read some of the responses and I won't bother commenting on them. Talk to your fiancé and encourage her to talk to you as well.


Tag

[GregfromGa]

These ain't no bumps in the road. Hopefully you'll figure it all out. There is no science to it. About the time you think you have it whipped then the wheels come off. I honestly used to think I gave solid advice here on this forum but I stopped about 5 years ago. LOL   Today is our little girls birthday. She is 9. She asked me to get cupcakes and drinks for the class and I did. Today at school while taking my son I ran into her dropping off our daughter. It went good. She was very cordial. It was our best conversation in a year about our kids. There is lots of people here that have had relative success at this. There are some very intelligent women here. Good luck in this endeavor. It's just that. It will be a roller coaster ride of emotions at times. I'm not the one to talk to about how it's done. My opinion will be a little prejudicial.

[KenInUtah]

And all is well.  We've had a great week.  Went apartment hunting and found our new "nest". Enjoying each others cooking and company...chores are shared and actually watched "Rocky Horror" with her yesterday.  Sure its still the honeymoon period but all is still good.  She is even learning football!

[TagUrIt898]

Glad to hear Ken, thanks for the updates. We all wish you guys the best!!

[BillyB]

And all is well.  We've had a great week. 

More good days than bad is a good thing. It's good to know after your wife talks about things that made her upset, she moves on quickly into a cheerful mood.

[KenInUtah]

Ok. This is fun and a good learning experience. Lily is getting her hair done and the sylist is latina. They are conversing quite well in english and it is both of their 2nd language. I see her confidence in her english go up every day!

[mendeleyev]

Ken,

Thanks for sharing about your bump in the road. We all have them--it is a normal part of international marriage, and due to differences in languages and their contexts, something we will always have.

Culturally, I understand her reaction to the babushka comment. Grandmothers are beloved in Russia, but someone who isn't one doesn't wish to be called one. It is definitely a sign of age.

The expression "love covers a multitude of sins" is especially appropriate to our marriages because we all make honest missteps.

[BillyB]

I see her confidence in her english go up every day!

Confidence is good and there's less chance she'll get depressed and get culture shocked.

[mendeleyev]

The following is not necessarily directed "at" anyone, including Ken. It is for anyone interested.

Someone in the thread above suggested saying I love you to a wife 12 times a day. That is a good suggestion, and somewhat similar to the 3 daily compliments standard that has served me well over the years. Readers don't have to follow my path, but I use one of those daily compliments about how much I appreciate her in my life and what she adds to our family, another compliment is about her work and talent (she is an artist), and the third is usually how I marvel at and admire her beauty. If any of that works, take it. It is easy to give her genuine compliments because she is an incredible person.

I will share how I handle garbage, and how that has literally transformed our marriage: In the FSU, most everyone had a job of some sort. That included the lowest on the food chain which often meant drafting elderly women who were thought to have no other skills other than sweeping and handling garbage duties in those large apartment buildings. Each building has a metal chute than runs from top to bottom. It has an opening on each stairway landing, and there is a metal door used to open and then toss trash into the chute. That trash lands at the bottom and from there someone must take a shovel and broom and carry all that garbage to outside bins. You may have seen such trash workers, often elderly women, in your travels there.

There is a stigma to being a trash lady. It carries the idea of a person being good for not much else, and occupying one of the lowest rungs in communal society. Often today if you see a younger lady carrying trash in the FSU, the assumption is that she is alone and there is no one else to do it for her. She is sometimes viewed as being near the bottom of that chain of dignity.

I determined early on in our relationship that my wife would not be a garbage lady. I made it a priority that she should never feel that way while being married to me. Some tasks are not worth sharing, and for me that is one of them. When I travel for work there are times when she or Mum must take the garbage out, however we live in a home, not an apartment, so today taking out the garbage simply means placing it in one of the plastic bins belonging to the city that are situated next to our garage door. However, when home, I remain the only one in our home who should be handling garbage duties (unless a son-in-law is present, and they are involuntarily enlisted/drafted into my intensive "how to treat your wife" training programs, and so by default it automatically becomes their duty.)

[BillyB]

Someone in the thread above suggested saying I love you to a wife 12 times a day. That is a good suggestion, and somewhat similar to the 3 daily compliments standard that has served me well over the years. Readers don't have to follow my path, but I use one of those daily compliments about how much I appreciate her in my life and what she adds to our family, another compliment is about her work and talent (she is an artist), and the third is usually how I marvel at and admire her beauty. If any of that works, take it. It is easy to give her genuine compliments because she is an incredible person.

My wife would not like it if I told her "I love you" many times a day or gave her many compliments. If I said the "love" word too many times, it would cheapen the meaning and she may think I'm "kissing ass" with all the compliments.


On the other hand, it may be what's needed for some wives. They may need to hear words of affection and compliments often to feel loved.


A friend of mine told me of a book he read in the link below call "The Five Love Languages" listed below. I've never read the book but the 5 points stuck with me.


1) Gifts.

2) quality time

3) words of affirmation

4) acts of service (devotion)

5) and physical touch (intimacy)


Some women and men need one or some of those items to feel loved. For me, I'm good with #5. It's important for people to figure out what their spouse needs to feel loved otherwise no matter how much you love your spouse, he/she may not feel it. One of my friends struggled in his marriage for the longest time. He finally figured out the love language his wife needed was acts of service. He was always slow in fixing things around the house and it didn't help that he wasn't a very good handy man. Because he put fixing the house off many times, his wife felt he didn't love her. When he acted fast on fixing things when they broke, his wife's mood was much better.

[mendeleyev]

Billy, I understand, but generally the difference between compliments accepted versus compliments unwanted are whether a lady feels that they are genuine. If the compliment is not genuine, then it is merely a comment and likely not worth speaking. 


What works in marriage often mirrors the workplace, and associates who feel respected and appreciated generally contribute more to the team effort.

[ML]

What works in marriage often mirrors the workplace, and associates who feel respected and appreciated generally contribute more to the team effort.

What a load of crap.  This is merely the same old Theory Y dogma that is not practiced by real men and good managers.

Crack the whip at work, and keep them wemin in line . . . or else.

Go Team Theory X !! 
Fight on to Victory, Fight On for ol' SC

[KenInUtah]

OK, maybe I'm lucky or maybe she is just an Angel.  I find this so cute.  I work from home so I usually get up about 6am and after the 3 S's, login and start working - after all, its already after 8am back east. 

What I find so nice is that she gets up and while I am in the shower, makes me breakfast - this morning was sausage, eggs, english muffing, honeydew, milk, coffee and juice (yes, I'm stuffed) and then she goes back to bed.  I rarely ever ate breakfast before but now I am "ordered" to and I don't complain (good advice here about that).

Good luck finding an AW who would do that!  I know they are little things but I do find them very endearing.

[Gator]

What I find so nice is that she gets up and while I am in the shower, makes me breakfast - this morning was sausage, eggs, english muffing, honeydew, milk, coffee and juice (yes, I'm stuffed) and then she goes back to bed.

My RW wife never does such because she knows I would go into shock. 

I rarely ever ate breakfast before but now I am "ordered" to and I don't complain (good advice here about that).   

Breakfast is important.  However, are you reducing calorie intake at other meals.   You will need to step up your fitness program or you could gain 20 lbs.