More Bad News for Russia

[lordtiberius]

This is not much of a 'badge of honor' actually...but if that is all you can do...then I guess I should be happy for you. 

It isn't the Ukraine military that makes you a war monger...it is your overall warped mentality that does...if you had your way we would likely be actively involved in 6 wars by now...although all our children would probably be killed in these wars by now anyway...but of course what do you care...you have no children.

Fathertime!   

yeah whatever you say dude

[fathertime]

You are dodging the issues I brought up in order to topic change.  All of Ukraine is worth defending or none of it is.  And no appeasement will stop the Kremlin mafia and you know this.

That is a false dichotomy....It doesn't have to be ALL or NOTHING...why do you insist it has to be?

Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

That is a false dichotomy....It doesn't have to be ALL or NOTHING...why do you insist it has to be?

Fathertime!

newsflash, I don't care what you think.  I care about what  Boethius thinks because I like and respect her.  You?  That ship left the train tracks a long time ago genius

[fathertime]

newsflash, I don't care what you think.  I care about what  Boethius thinks because I like and respect her.  You?  That ship left the train tracks a long time ago genius

It doesn't matter to me if you 'respect' my opinion or 'like me' or not....that still doesn't change the fact that you presented a false dichotomy which got called out for what it was....

Fathertime!   

[Photo Guy]

A unified Ukraine is good for all of Ukraine. A unified Ukraine is bad for Putin. The new 'republics' want to be separate while still being dependent on Ukraine. That ambiguity needs to be looked at closely. It's apparently acceptable to take over govt buildings by force, and hold elections, and bring in Russian tanks, but it's unacceptable to cut off govt checks from Ukraine. What is the current list of separatists' demands? What do they want? 

[Photo Guy]

Ukraine can also starve out Crimea.  It has chosen not to, but it can and the day is coming when it should and will.  Death to the traitors.

but...what about the good people in Crimea? I know some of them.

[lordtiberius]

but...what about the good people in Crimea? I know some of them.

I don't think it will come to that.  But things will get bad for the people of Crimea.  Russia will get weaker and Ukraine will get stronger.  In the tipping point, if it does come to what I have described, the people will leave.  The scum will go back to Russia and the good will back back to Ukraine.  The fighting will root out most of the bastards.  Innocent people will die.  Innocent people always die.  But the gold and blue will fly over Ukraine again.

[AkMike]

They are not fighting for Crimea.

 Wrong! They are fighting for a reunified Ukraine.

  When was the last time you were there to actually talk to anyone?

[Boethius]

I talk to Ukrainians, in Ukrainian, at least twice a week, sometimes more.  What they say is not at all what posters here post, but they generally don't know any Westerners, other than me, and they are living without any financial aid from Westerners (unless I send something).   

[lordtiberius]

Wrong! They are fighting for a reunified Ukraine.

agree

  When was the last time you were there to actually talk to anyone?

That's cold and its true

[Boethius]

Why?  I can sit down with anyone from anywhere in Ukraine, and speak to them in their native tongue.  None of you can do that. 


One of the better half's classmates contacted him on facebook.  I don't have a facebook or vk account, but he set one up to contact old military buddies.  The classmate now lives in Western Europe, but supports several children and her mother in Kyiv, so travels there frequently.  Less than 2 weeks ago, she told him there is an underlying tension, palatable.  The mood is explosive.


A month ago, SIL told me that living there "is like living on a powder keg".  She also happens to volunteer at one of the hospitals, and says the way wounded soldiers are treated is deplorable.   A little more than a week ago, our nephew told us Kyiv has thousands of refugees, jobs are scarce, and the situation is tense.


My relatives in Ivano Frankivsk have told me of demonstrations against deployments, thanks to a lack of equipment.  Yet you guys, sitting at home, think it is hunky dory for these young men to throw away their lives for a Crimea they cannot reclaim.  The situation there is very different from the rest of Ukraine.


So nope, I obviously know nothing of what is going on and will defer to the non Slavic speakers in the crowd.  I'll be certain to let all the Ukrainians I speak to know that they don't know what is going on around them, and they should come here to learn the truth.

[lordtiberius]

More insults?  Is that the best you can do?

I am grateful that the Ukrainian military is fighting.  Like I said, the Ukrainian military and God is defending my family.  Luckily not all have given into defeatism.  And tell us again how the Russians will honor the truce . . . The Tatars are not worth dying for . . . .

[Boethius]

Where are the insults?  Nothing I posted is inaccurate.


Now please tell me where Ukrainian soldiers are fighting in Crimea.

[lordtiberius]

If you cannot read that you insulted all of us, who merely said we disagree with you on Good Friday, then I repeat my request, what church do you go to?

[Boethius]

Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.

[lordtiberius]

Like I said, your lack of empathy and judgment is impeaching your normally impeccable credibility.  You insulted us.  NONE of us have insulted you. 

You lean on your language ability as a justification for your immoral position.  If every Ukrainian resisted the war as the Russian Crimeans, I would let sleeping dogs lie.  But there are those in the field fighting back just as there are those in Crimea that are resisting.  You abandon them.  If you cannot feel shame, ask all your Ukrainian buddies in whatever language of your choosing why you are right and everyone else is wrong.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.

Unfortunately, LT sees any type of disagreement, with his views, as an insult.  I do find it somewhat funny how members here complain about egotistical Russians telling Ukrainians how things are yet have no problem doing the same. 


I appreciate these types of insights, Bo.  I hope you continue to post them.

[lordtiberius]

Unfortunately, LT sees any type of disagreement, with his views, as an insult.

Yet you guys, sitting at home, think it is hunky dory for these young men to throw away their lives for a Crimea they cannot reclaim. 

Deal with that, warmonger.

Try again buddy

[LiveFromUkraine]

Try again buddy

First, I'm not your buddy.


Second, if you want to get aggressive with people, expect the same response.


Third, stop acting like a victim when you do get that response.

[lordtiberius]

Game, set and match.

Defeatism is indefensible, impractical and immoral.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Defeatism is indefensible, impractical and immoral.

You have just described the way you interact on this forum perfectly.  You're like the boy who cried wolf when it comes to insults.  The closest thing to an insult was the warmonger comment and I would say it's probably more truth than insult.  Eveything else you cried about wasn't an insult.


As for whether Ukraine should try and retake Crimea.  That is obviously their call, but I believe it would be a bad call if they decided to do so.  Once (if) they can rid mainland of Russia, they need to rebuild Ukraine which will take a long time and more suffering.  Trying to retake Crimea will only add to that misery as well as the time to rebuild.  There may even come a point of no return where they won't be able to rebuild if they continue down the war route.  That would be exactly what Russia wants.

[calmissile]

Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.

I seriously think you are full of it.

[lordtiberius]

You have just described the way you interact on this forum perfectly.  You're like the boy who cried wolf when it comes to insults.  The closest thing to an insult was the warmonger comment and I would say it's probably more truth than insult.  Eveything else you cried about wasn't an insult.

Well whatever

As for whether Ukraine should try and retake Crimea.  That is obviously their call,

And no one disputes that . . .

but I believe it would be a bad call if they decided to do so.  Once (if) they can rid mainland of Russia, they need to rebuild Ukraine which will take a long time and more suffering.  Trying to retake Crimea will only add to that misery as well as the time to rebuild.

 

That is more defeatism.  Ukraine will take back Crimea.  Crimea will earn for liberation.  Here is a little foretaste:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/15/crimea-s-curse-one-year-on.html

Denis Baturin with the Crimea Public Chamber told The Daily Beast. “Every truck bringing goods to the peninsula has to pay various fees of about [about $2,400] and wait for five days on the border for clearance in each direction to and from Crimea. That makes everything you buy in our stores much more expensive.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/one-year-after-annexation-sanctions-isolate-crimea-world-n324131

McDonald's was not the only international company to withdraw from Crimea: many others followed, including PayPal, Amazon, and even Russian banks.

Once a thriving resort zone, Crimea now stands separated from the rest of the world: international cell phones do not work, and neither do credit cards.

The sole land link to the Ukrainian mainland was closed off by Kiev, food prices have skyrocketed, tourist flows are down and 3G cellphone service is off. The peninsula is even lacking in fresh water and electricity, more than 80 percent of which came from Ukraine.

These problems which aren't news to members of this forum bear repeating and reexamination.


And we are supposed to turn our backs on these people (who are Ukrainian) just because helping them is in the opinion of some not practical

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/03/us-ukraine-crisis-turkey-idUSKBN0MU0MX20150403

"The Crimean people and particularly Crimean Tatars have been oppressed, attacked and their rights have been violated ... We are sending an informal mission to observe human rights violations in Crimea soon,"

Mevlut Cavusoglu
Turkish Foreign Minister 

There may even come a point of no return where they won't be able to rebuild if they continue down the war route.  That would be exactly what Russia wants.

No.  Cities and countries always rebuild given the right policies and with some help from their friends.  Does Ukraine have any?

[Steamer]

No.  Cities and countries always rebuild given the right policies and with some help from their friends.  Does Ukraine have any?

Right policies or friends? Maybe both?

[Faux Pas]

I seriously think you are full of it.

I failed to read anything whatsoever insulting in Boe's post. She has an opinion and a very valid one. Please point to me where you think she's wrong?