Poll: Among US citizens has increased the number of supporters of Ukraine weapon

[Steamer]

Nobody here is under that false illusion.

I hope not but sometimes it doesn't seem so.

[Gator]

Tell me, what is the point of discussion boards? Is it to discuss different opinions or to brow beat people into agreeing with your opinion? Since when is your opinion the only right one?

Silly boy!   No one has all the answers.  My wife knows everything    yet she does not have an answer regarding Ukraine.

Perhaps it would help if I explained my feelings for Ukraine.   Personally, I would like for Poroshenko to somehow maintain a stalemate in eastern Ukraine, to ignore Crimea for 10-20 years (but not concede anything), and to focus on implementing the reforms necessary to build the economy, eventually developing the same standard of living as its western neighbors.  I believe Putin does not want to see Ukraine achieve such a success as it means independence from Russia,  Crimea becoming another Turkish Cyprus, and eastern Ukraine resembling war ravaged Chechnya.   

I take particular exception to those who support Putin because IMO Putin is the wild card inhibiting economic improvement in  Ukraine.  Putin's goal is to disrupt Ukraine, hoping it becomes a failed state and wishes to return to a Russian satellite.

Now your comment about different opinions.  Diverse opinions are very important to enrich a discussion and thereby develop a better understanding of an issue.   Thus, the merits of each opinion should be presented and considered.   However, once an opinion is largely deemed by multiple members to have little merit and has been based on unreliable information,  why keep littering the room with the same garbage.   Instead, the holder of that opinion should do more research to address specific criticisms. 

That is the way I like to participate.  Then again, I admit to not having a lot of patience.  Seniors are usually afforded the luxury of not having to waste their time.   

[Steamer]

  Then again, I admit to not having a lot of patience.  Seniors are usually afforded the luxury of not having to waste their time.

I hear you brother!

[lordtiberius]

Tell me, what is the point of discussion boards? Is it to discuss different opinions or to brow beat people into agreeing with your opinion? Since when is your opinion the only right one?

That is a baseless accusation.  Anyone who has bothered to read Gator's posts knows he considers opinions carefully and responds thoughtfully.  What an intellectually lazy smear . . .

Nobody here is under that false illusion.  We know that nobody in the pro-Putin bunch will ever change their minds.  I think it's just that people are weary of the arrogant bold faced lies.

You once admitted that Russia did not try to attract people the right way (by having a strong economy).  So you and I agree on that one small thing.

You also seem to want the bloodshed to end.  I also do but realize it will get worse before it gets better.  I also realize that Ukraine is mostly united against Russian aggression and they are willing to fight for the sovereignty of their land, which is half the reason the bloodshed will not end.  The other half of course is that V. Putin has broken both Minsk peace accords and he has no intention of pulling his troops and war material out of E. Ukraine.

Well, this post is a good one.  The problem is I don't think Steamer is very sincere.  He agrees with you that Russia doesn't have a real economy.  Maybe Steamer wants it that way.  He says he wants the bloodshed to end.  But then he cheerleads Russian atrocity.  Be wary of this one.

[LiveFromUkraine]

That is a baseless accusation.  Anyone who has bothered to read Gator's posts knows he considers opinions carefully and responds thoughtfully.  What an intellectually lazy smear . . .

Well, this post is a good one.  The problem is I don't think Steamer is very sincere.  He agrees with you that Russia doesn't have a real economy.  Maybe Steamer wants it that way.  He says he wants the bloodshed to end.  But then he cheerleads Russian atrocity.  Be wary of this one.

haha  No, you must have missed quite a few posts by Gator.  You can just go back to how he has constantly attacked FT and now the Darth guy.  Before it was GQ's fault for his outbursts because he hated how GQ spoke of people.  Now it's so called idiocy that fires him up.

[Brasscasing]

Brass, correct me if wrong, but eight of these guys, the better dressed, appear to be wearing camo issued from stock used during Soviet times. It is new material, but using the old Soviet camo pattern. This was the standard uniform supplied to the DNR by Russia when fighting first broke out.

Yeah, Soviet era winter gear for sure.



Similar in design to what these young cadets are wearing. My guess would be this style of battle dress is used for export or current Russian second line issue. It's all over ebay being sold as military surplus.

There's nothing wrong with it though the Soviets had relatively good winter gear.

Brass

[lordtiberius]

So we stopped talking about growing US support for Ukraine to talk military fashion sense. 

What color is the dress?

You see how communist/socialist subversion works?

[Brasscasing]

So we stopped talking about growing US support for Ukraine to talk military fashion sense. 

What color is the dress?

You see how communist/socialist subversion works?

Easy big fella. I don't know anyone more committed to ending Russian aggression in Ukraine through appropriate measures (whatever those measures may be) than Mendy.

For myself, you know I'm for arming Ukraine as a stop gap measure but would prefer cutting out the middle man and go straight to NATO direct military intervention (not gonna happen in the foreseeable future though).

We haven't lost focus just a wee side bar. 

Brass

[Gator]

haha  No, you must have missed quite a few posts by Gator.  You can just go back to how he has constantly attacked FT and now the Darth guy.  Before it was GQ's fault for his outbursts because he hated how GQ spoke of people.  Now it's so called idiocy that fires him up.

You have expressed these same sentiments elsewhere, and I responded.  I see no need to do what you do, i. e., repeat.   

GQ had his good points, e. g. he was always a source for  an important  reality check.   Anyway, let us leave GQ out of this for obvious reasons. 

BTW, thank you for being my fan and tracking all my moves.  Do you want my autographed photo?  Special price this week.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You have expressed these same sentiments elsewhere, and I responded.  I see no need to do what you do, i. e., repeat.   

GQ had his good points, e. g. he was always a source for  an important  reality check.   Anyway, let us leave GQ out of this for obvious reasons. 

BTW, thank you for being my fan and tracking all my moves.  Do you want my autographed photo?  Special price this week.

Narcissistic behavior, indeed.

[lordtiberius]

You have expressed these same sentiments elsewhere, and I responded.  I see no need to do what you do, i. e., repeat.   

GQ had his good points, e. g. he was always a source for  an important  reality check.   Anyway, let us leave GQ out of this for obvious reasons. 

BTW, thank you for being my fan and tracking all my moves.  Do you want my autographed photo?  Special price this week.

 

 

[lordtiberius]

Easy big fella. I don't know anyone more committed to ending Russian aggression in Ukraine through appropriate measures (whatever those measures may be) than Mendy.

For myself, you know I'm for arming Ukraine as a stop gap measure but would prefer cutting out the middle man and go straight to NATO direct military intervention (not gonna happen in the foreseeable future though).

We haven't lost focus just a wee side bar. 

Brass

What color is the dress?

Meanwhile, US still frenemies with Ukraine.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-intelligence-sharing-leaves-ukraine-in-the-dark-1425068644

Tell us again how this is a US backed coup Neo-Comms?

[Brasscasing]

What color is the dress?

Oh, the dress...

Well...

..."Light enters the eye through the lens—different wavelengths corresponding to different colors. The light hits the retina in the back of the eye where pigments fire up neural connections to the visual cortex, the part of the brain that processes those signals into an image. Critically, though, that first burst of light is made of whatever wavelengths are illuminating the world, reflecting off whatever you’re looking at. Without you having to worry about it, your brain figures out what color light is bouncing off the thing your eyes are looking at, and essentially subtracts that color from the “real” color of the object."...

...“Our visual system is supposed to throw away information about the illuminant and extract information about the actual reflectance,” says Jay Neitz, a neuroscientist at the University of Washington. “But I’ve studied individual differences in color vision for 30 years, and this is one of the biggest individual differences I’ve ever seen.” (Neitz sees white-and-gold.)"...

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/

Kinda like the Ukraine debate. Most of us see the dress, some of us see it in different ways and then there's some who refuse to take the blindfold off and see it at all.

Brass

[lordtiberius]

You know the Bush Administration made A LOT of mistakes.  Many of those mistakes got men killed - good men too that will never be replaced.

Yet I cannot help but think that the predecessor was better than the incumbent.  Further I cannot help but think that the  predecessor's predecessor was better than the predecessor, but both are preferable than the incumbent.  And too, the predecessor's predecessor's predecessor  are preferable than the incumbent.  I would say the majority of 43 predecessors with some exception are better than the incumbent. 

The incumbent's supporters, those that aren't glued to TMZ will play the race card.  But I ask these same honest people, is there not one among the pigmented races that exceed the incumbent in character, judgment and accomplishment?

The celebrity President is the getting a reputation of being the friend of the tyrant and an enemy of freedom.  Bill Whittle calls him the turncoat president because the turn coats didn't only surrender, they took arms against their allies.

Ukraine is our ally.  The Kurds and Jews are our allies.  We are still a Christian nation and Christians are slaughtered in the Middle East.

This must stop.  This absurd drama in Washington must stop.  I do not blame just the Democrats - though they are the chief source of mischief in our body politic but I blame the other party to for fundraising off of misery and prolonging it with procrastination.  Before it was people (like me) losing wealth, mostly home values.  But now, this President's policies are killing people.

SI MONUMENTUM REQUIRIS CIRCUMSPICE

[Boethius]

A statement by Darth's hero and nominee for the Ukrainian presidency -


http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-run-miserable-jews-rebel-chief-202600090.html

[Steamer]

A statement by Darth's hero and nominee for the Ukrainian presidency -


http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-run-miserable-jews-rebel-chief-202600090.html

This is what happens when an electrician runs things; you need a boiler engineer.

[AC]

For myself, you know I'm for arming Ukraine as a stop gap measure but would prefer cutting out the middle man and go straight to NATO direct military intervention (not gonna happen in the foreseeable future though).

 

[mendeleyev]

So we stopped talking about growing US support for Ukraine to talk military fashion sense. 

You of all should know it to be an important topic. I have been in situations where one must make a split second decision on how to safely react when approached. It has been my experience that:

- Camo style
- Arms, and the way they are held
- Accents
- footwear
- Demeanor (professional, or non)

have yet to let me down.

The Russian Army's presence is often signaled by camo of different design, and much higher quality boots and footwear, that the rebels, the Ukrainians, or the volunteer Ukrainians.

That rough looking and gun toting guy in the older faded camo and cheap hiking boots or sneakers manning the checkpoint just ahead is a rebel. The guys with the newer material but older style camo are DNR. Actually those two are the most dangerous to a civilian or a journalist.

The pros, whether or not you like them and the side they represent, generally have enough training to act like pros and thus are safer to encounter. One must still be careful, especially with the use of cameras or recording equipment, because supposedly they aren't really there.

[lordtiberius]

It may be worth considering and yet it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Perplexing simple issues and distracting moral questions are the trade craft of communist subversion.  He had told us what he is.  You fell into his trap.

[Boethius]

Life in the new republics -


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/novoe-vremya-what-life-in-self-proclaimed-republics-is-like-382322.html

[mendeleyev]

You fell into his trap.

Wrong, my friend. I used his own example, as did Brass, to expose his fallacy that one cannot tell whether there are Russian regulars operating in Ukraine. I used several examples of how I could tell, and at times my safety has depended on being able to do so. That exposes the lie that there are no "Red Army" troops assigned to Ukrainian duty.

Communism is discredited, and for good reason. However, the human race never learns so it will most certainly return with a new, and very ignorant, generation.

[lordtiberius]

Take it how you want to.  All white people look the same to me.

Arm Ukraine.  No SWIFT for Putin.

[fathertime]

Tell me, what is the point of discussion boards? Is it to discuss different opinions or to brow beat people into agreeing with your opinion? Since when is your opinion the only right one?

Good point Steamer.  I have observed that certain posters like Gator insist they are correct.   If you disagree vehemently,  you can wind up demonized with off-topic misrepresentations.   The bottom line is he really has no respect for others opinions...which I'm sure he will continue to demonstrate.  There are valid opinions regarding certain aspects of this conflict and posters should express regardless of know it all's angry complaints.

fathertime!

[Muzh]

Good point Steamer.  I have observed that certain posters like Gator insist they are correct.   If you disagree vehemently,  you can wind up demonized with off-topic misrepresentations.   The bottom line is he really has no respect for others opinions...which I'm sure he will continue to demonstrate.  There are valid opinions regarding certain aspects of this conflict and posters should express regardless of know it all's angry complaints.

fathertime!

I certainly have no problems with valid opinions. The problem I have with is when someone takes a different view just to incite discord.

[lordtiberius]

Good point Steamer.  I have observed that certain posters like Gator insist they are correct.   If you disagree vehemently,  you can wind up demonized with off-topic misrepresentations.   The bottom line is he really has no respect for others opinions...which I'm sure he will continue to demonstrate.  There are valid opinions regarding certain aspects of this conflict and posters should express regardless of know it all's angry complaints.

fathertime!

That is not true.  I have disagreed with Gator plenty and there is no quid pro quo disrespect.  You get what you give.