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Author Topic: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians  (Read 29515 times)

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Offline jone

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President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« on: September 28, 2016, 09:05:58 AM »
I think we are now to a point in time in the campaign where there is a distinct possibility that Trump will be president.  My thoughts immediately turn to his populist message and how that will play in defining our country's relationship with Russia.

Here are some predictions:

1.  Trump will probably have greater contact with Putin than Obama has.

2.  I see the end to sanctions and some brokered peace agreement leaving Eastern Ukraine in the current mess it is in. 

3.  I see the possibility of Trump recognizing Crimea as part of Russia.

4.  I see America taking a 'less involved'  approach in overseas matters.  It will probably end support of the Syrian rebel forces in opposition to Assad.

How do you see a Trump Administration and interaction with Russia?
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Offline odba

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 09:12:25 AM »
I hope Trump wouldn't be a walkover for that thug Putin, who I think is a lowlife. I do want us out of other people's mess. If anyone watched the 60 minutes presentation over the weekend about Russia's nuclear weapons, I am concerned. I want us to focus more on national defense, terrorism in this country than fighting elsewhere. Much rather spend the money on strengthening our military than giving tens of billions to a terrorist state like Pakistan. My 2 cents.  :D

Offline ML

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 09:53:38 AM »
I want us to focus more on national defense, terrorism in this country than fighting elsewhere. Much rather spend the money on strengthening our military than giving tens of billions to a terrorist state like Pakistan.

Many miss the point of why we fight terrorists in other countries.  i.e. to defeat them or at least weaken them so that they cannot conduct as much terrorism against us here at home.

This is the same point as why we have fought battles in Europe and elsewhere.  By keeping the fighting over there, we saved the destruction of infrastructure here in USA and prevented the mass killings of civilians here in USA.
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Offline Gator

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 10:03:13 AM »

How do you see a Trump Administration and interaction with Russia?

In this case, Trump will continue the direction started by Obama.    Obama long ago decided not to challenge Russia or even contain them.  I agree with Obama that the Europeans should take the lead, e. g., we  were not involved in the Ukrainian  cease fire.   

If the Europeans decide to recognize the annexation of Crimea and end sanctions, Trump will go with them. 

If someone wants the US to challenge Russia, elect Romney in 2020.   

Offline BillyB

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 07:33:46 PM »

Trump seems to have the support of most generals. He will continue to get briefings on how certain countries undermine America. He will get educated that Russia is an adversary and not to make the mistake of hitting the reset button. I doubt he'll let Russia and China run wild like Obama did although he's giving the impression he's less of a war hawk than Hillary.
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Offline BC

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 12:55:02 AM »
Trump seems to have the support of most generals. He will continue to get briefings on how certain countries undermine America. He will get educated that Russia is an adversary and not to make the mistake of hitting the reset button. I doubt he'll let Russia and China run wild like Obama did although he's giving the impression he's less of a war hawk than Hillary.

Any of those 88 Generals supporting Trump active duty?  What constitutes 'most generals'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign_endorsements,_2016 
http://snagfilms.s3.amazonaws.com/22/9e/a7d397cc4df18d221dcd5a5fa101/trump-military-letter.pdf

All seem to be retired or?  There are around 500 active duty General Officers....  I assume there are thousands of retired Generals still alive and kicking...

Offline BillyB

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 05:59:57 AM »
Any of those 88 Generals supporting Trump active duty?  What constitutes 'most generals'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign_endorsements,_2016 
http://snagfilms.s3.amazonaws.com/22/9e/a7d397cc4df18d221dcd5a5fa101/trump-military-letter.pdf

All seem to be retired or?  There are around 500 active duty General Officers....  I assume there are thousands of retired Generals still alive and kicking...

Active duty generals aren't allowed to pick sides or speak poorly of their bosses. There are a few Obama hand pick 4 star generals that are active duty that have spoken poorly of Trump. They will keep their jobs if Hillary is president and they know they'll lose their jobs if Trump is president. On the other hand, retired generals can freely speak their minds.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BC

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 06:46:58 AM »
Active duty generals aren't allowed to pick sides or speak poorly of their bosses. There are a few Obama hand pick 4 star generals that are active duty that have spoken poorly of Trump. They will keep their jobs if Hillary is president and they know they'll lose their jobs if Trump is president. On the other hand, retired generals can freely speak their minds.

Well, 88 ain't even a whole lot of retired Generals.  Neither are the 95 that endorsed Clinton.  http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/retired-generals-admirals-endorse-clinton-227814

Just prodding you to qualify or otherwise substantiate your "Trump seems to have the support of most generals." remark.

Offline BillyB

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 06:57:38 PM »
Well, 88 ain't even a whole lot of retired Generals.  Neither are the 95 that endorsed Clinton.  http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/retired-generals-admirals-endorse-clinton-227814

Just prodding you to qualify or otherwise substantiate your "Trump seems to have the support of most generals." remark.

88 generals grouped their support in one letter. I don't know how many individual generals are also supporting Trump not involved in the letter but your article only talks about the 88. Here's a military poll of active duty members who remain anonymous. Guess who they rather have in charge of their lives.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/05/09/military-times-survey-donald-trump-beats-hillary-clinton/84132402/
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BC

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 01:22:12 AM »
88 generals grouped their support in one letter. I don't know how many individual generals are also supporting Trump not involved in the letter but your article only talks about the 88. Here's a military poll of active duty members who remain anonymous. Guess who they rather have in charge of their lives.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/05/09/military-times-survey-donald-trump-beats-hillary-clinton/84132402/

Although the survey is a bit dated (from May) and was not a normal poll, I could see that military folks might be more Trumpish.  Another more recent poll showed somewhat similar results, but also other aspects..

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/294732-poll-trump-leads-clinton-among-military-veteran-voters

Confidence in Commander in Chief roll for both candidates was quite low along with only a minority trusting them with Nukes.

In any case we'll know all in a few weeks time ;)


Offline Nikolos

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 08:35:35 AM »
If Hillary gets in, the cold war with Russia will continue, If you watched the recent debate, she blamed Russia for all the hackings, in particular the one involving the DNC.. Trump to his credit called her on it, noting there is NO credible proof that it was the Russians, claiming it could be have been China or a host of other Countries..

You would think that a former Secretary of State would resist in recklessly blaming Russia without any credible proof, but it's an election year, Let's make Americans think the big bad Russians are trying to overthrow our election process so Trump can get elected, that way they will vote for her.

Reagan ended the cold war and Obama and Clinton are successfully bringing it back.. Let's hope the b**ch doesn't get in.





Offline ML

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 08:59:55 AM »

Reagan ended the cold war and Obama and Clinton are successfully bringing it back..

You are a little bit FU here.

Russia brought back the cold war.
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Offline BillyB

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 10:43:39 PM »
If Hillary gets in, the cold war with Russia will continue, If you watched the recent debate, she blamed Russia for all the hackings, in particular the one involving the DNC.. Trump to his credit called her on it, noting there is NO credible proof that it was the Russians, claiming it could be have been China or a host of other Countries..


The NSA, FBI, and 3 of the top cybersecurity companies in America all said the Russians hacked the White House, Pentagon, and everything Democrat. Trump is playing like it wasn't the Russians because he'll lose votes if people believe the Russians are doing the hacks to help Trump win. Maybe Russia wants Trump to lose if Hillary can be blackmailed with the most damaging emails. They haven't released anything yet that can get Hillary prosecuted.
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Offline BC

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2016, 12:06:06 AM »
Maybe Russia wants Trump to lose if Hillary can be blackmailed with the most damaging emails. They haven't released anything yet that can get Hillary prosecuted.

I think Russia would like Trump to win.  Easy to manipulate, easy prey.  Clinton sadly will be more of a brick wall for a productive relationship with them, but maybe that will prod some changes down the road.

I see you're still a bit stuck on the emails.. chances are just as likely they simply do not have anything else in the hat.

Trump's campaign should have waited towards the end of the campaign to bring up Clinton's faults.  Instead they are mostly viewed as old news on the inside page if a new aspect comes up.  Attention now seems to be on Trump's present and past fails.

Offline BC

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2016, 01:11:58 AM »
I think we are now to a point in time in the campaign where there is a distinct possibility that Trump will be president.  My thoughts immediately turn to his populist message and how that will play in defining our country's relationship with Russia.

Here are some predictions:

1.  Trump will probably have greater contact with Putin than Obama has.

There does seem to be some mutual attraction there, both have King/Emperor like aspirations, but Putin is in a different league and a lot smarter.  Trump is making a big mistake if he considers himself a peer.

Quote
2.  I see the end to sanctions and some brokered peace agreement leaving Eastern Ukraine in the current mess it is in. 

An end to sanctions will be extremely difficult to bring about, however they may simply be left to expire.  Ukraine is a dead issue that no one seems to be really interested in resolving, a subject to avoid rather than confront.

Quote
3.  I see the possibility of Trump recognizing Crimea as part of Russia.

Although within the realm of Presidential powers, such action would be fraught with contempt from many sides, in Congress and overseas.  RU would likely have to make some very major concessions for this to happen with public and international support.  I don't see that happening.  RU has the status quo, upper hand in the matter.  There is nothing the US has that can force Putin to the table to broker a deal based on any RU concessions. Should Trump do so without support he'll set a very volatile precedent just as Congress just did with the JASTA Act.

Quote
4.  I see America taking a 'less involved'  approach in overseas matters.  It will probably end support of the Syrian rebel forces in opposition to Assad.

I think in her first term Clinton will concentrate on domestic and economic issues to gain support for a second term effort.  Trump's domestic vaporware promises will be laid aside having won the election and I believe he will be forced by his 'advisors' to try and prove himself on the international stage for any second term bid.  Yes, Trump will be even more involved overseas despite his promises.

Quote
How do you see a Trump Administration and interaction with Russia?

Checkers vs Chess...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 01:16:49 AM by BC »

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2016, 05:28:52 AM »
The NSA, FBI, and 3 of the top cybersecurity companies in America all said the Russians hacked the White House, Pentagon, and everything Democrat. Trump is playing like it wasn't the Russians because he'll lose votes if people believe the Russians are doing the hacks to help Trump win. Maybe Russia wants Trump to lose if Hillary can be blackmailed with the most damaging emails. They haven't released anything yet that can get Hillary prosecuted.

Zero credible evidence that the hackers were Russian, paid by Russia, supported by Russia in any fashion. The truth is they don't know who did/is doing the hacking. China, North Korea, Iran, any number of Middle Eastern or African countries or just individuals looking for a pay off could have hacked those entities. Zero, nadda, none

You're like a broken record Billy. What's humorous is you are stuck on something that doesn't mean a hill of shit in the bigger picture. You can't unring a bell. Who did the hacking isn't near as important as how they were hacked, what info was lost and who allowed it to happen.

The NSA is supposedly suppose to possess an ability to access every classified email ever sent. The FBI is suppose to have access to that information. You can believe the lines of bullshit coming out of this administration that has a habit of being hacked almost daily or, you can try to take a look at the forest AND the trees. Washington and the White House needs to have a boogeyman. As long as they give you someone to blame, you don't blame the real culprit, them.

Offline BillyB

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2016, 07:15:43 AM »
Zero credible evidence that the hackers were Russian, paid by Russia, supported by Russia in any fashion. The truth is they don't know who did/is doing the hacking. China, North Korea, Iran, any number of Middle Eastern or African countries or just individuals looking for a pay off could have hacked those entities. Zero, nadda, none


Good thing you're not president. This country could have a nuclear launch against us or an invasion and you wouldn't trust your intelligence sources.

Washington and the White House needs to have a boogeyman. As long as they give you someone to blame, you don't blame the real culprit, them.

You're the one imagining things. Our administration hasn't blamed anybody. Obama doesn't want confrontation and that is what's needed when assigning blame. Obama was barely strong enough to act against the North Korean hacks. He doesn't have the balls to shut down the Russian internet.

I think Russia would like Trump to win. 


Most people think like you. Since that is the case and because I believe Russia is smarter than most, that is exactly what they want most people to believe at this moment. Julian Assange said he's got an October surprise. His and WikiLeaks reputation is riding on that announcement. He can only release what his source gives him. Hillary went through a lot of trouble including breaking the law to delete emails for a reason. Let's see if Russia got copies before deletion.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 03:04:13 PM by BillyB »
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2016, 08:26:21 AM »
Good thing you're not president. This country could have a nuclear launch against us or an invasion and you wouldn't trust your intelligence sources.

You're the one imagining things. Our administration hasn't blamed anybody. Obama doesn't want confrontation and that is what's needed when assigning blame. Obama was barely strong enough to act against the North Korean hacks. He doesn't have the balls to shut down the Russian internet.



Zero point zero evidence. Exactly as much relevance as this response has to my post

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2016, 09:10:21 AM »
Here is the problem with the "Russians did it" perspective:

1. Russians (I mean the Russian hackers employed by Russian govt) are among the best in the world. For such a high value target they would be sure to not leave a trace.  So the idea that they were dumb enough to be found out, means either a) they wanted to be found out, or b) it was not the Russians but someone pretending to be or c) the people examining the hacking were misled or wrong in their appraisal of who did it.

2. The guy, "Guccifer" was 1 person, and yet he managed to breach a lot of emails.  How?  He used automated tools (scripts) which is the lowest level of hacking.  If 1 guy, not super-bright, can get into Blumenthal's emails - anyone could have.  I could train you, BillyB, to hack at this level in less than 30 days (not an insult, just saying you could learn this stuff quickly, it is not terribly difficult).

3. It's a leeeetle too convenient for the Hillary camp.  It lets them hang Trump with "Putin loves him" and at the same time, stir up even more hatred for "those evil Russians". It also distracts from Hillary's deals with the Russians - you know, where her Foundation took in $100 million + , and then allowed the sale of uranium mining?

4. We know that Israel already has everything - because of the Snowden revelations about how Israel gets raw feeds from the NSA of intercepted stuff.  So Israel, Russia, and China are all likely to already have every single one of Hillary's emails.  Does the NSA?  Supposedly they do.

Point 4 means - the public hearings may well be a complete fabrication and distraction, sadly.  The FBI and NSA are legally allowed to share information, so anything the NSA has the FBI can look at.
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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2016, 09:15:37 AM »
If you watched the recent debate, she blamed Russia for all the hackings,

Quite a joke too, for someone so careless with classified info.  They wont have to hack that idiot Clinton's stuff.  Just hang out at Starbucks while she is sucking down fraps and emailing our secrets to everyone.

So much stuff against her, and all people who can support her talk about is some disgruntled ex miss something or other.

Clinton is a disgrace, a criminal, corrupt and inept.  I'd bet she has already made deals with the terrorist to sell them classified info.  There is just no way to prove it.

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2016, 09:38:47 AM »
1. Russians (I mean the Russian hackers employed by Russian govt) are among the best in the world. For such a high value target they would be sure to not leave a trace.  So the idea that they were dumb enough to be found out, means either a) they wanted to be found out, or b) it was not the Russians but someone pretending to be or c) the people examining the hacking were misled or wrong in their appraisal of who did it.

The cybersecurity companies that were used to trace the hack were the best in the world and at least one of them is owned by a Russian with Russian employees.

It's well known 2 years ago Russia was hacking the White House and Pentagon and nobody disputed that. Now all of a sudden the Hillary camp spins this to a Russia wants Trump to win and conservatives who are smarter than cybersecurity companies come out of the wood work saying our intelligence services and cybersecurity companies are too dumb to figure it out. Where were you guys two years ago? Well....if we're too dumb to figure it out, I guess we'll have a lifetime worth of hacking that we can't stop because we don't know where it's coming from. :rolleyes:
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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2016, 10:14:54 AM »
The cybersecurity companies that were used to trace the hack were the best in the world and at least one of them is owned by a Russian with Russian employees.

It's well known 2 years ago Russia was hacking the White House and Pentagon and nobody disputed that. Now all of a sudden the Hillary camp spins this to a Russia wants Trump to win and conservatives who are smarter than cybersecurity companies come out of the wood work saying our intelligence services and cybersecurity companies are too dumb to figure it out. Where were you guys two years ago? Well....if we're too dumb to figure it out, I guess we'll have a lifetime worth of hacking that we can't stop because we don't know where it's coming from. :rolleyes:


Countries that have known teams of hackers that target USA companies and Federal govt/Pentagon:

Russia, China, Israel, Iran, Pakistan, ISIS/AlQaeda, India  (at a minimum)

If the Russians hacked it, then the Chinese hacked it; and the Israelis had all the data already.  Plus possibly some random guy like Guccifer did also.

So where is the proof that the leaks came from Russia? 

Do you understand that it is not mutually exclusive - that multiple hackers could be simultaneously hacking and getting info from a server they targeted?

The server admins continued to run an easily-compromised server for months and months. During this time period multiple hacks could have occurred.
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Offline ML

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2016, 11:29:22 AM »
Maybe even I was the hacker . . .

Oh wait . . . I don't even know how to get into my own email if I lose the pass code.
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Offline Larry1

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2016, 11:34:22 AM »
Maybe even I was the hacker . . .

Oh wait . . . I don't even know how to get into my own email if I lose the pass code.

I do. shoot me a PM if you have trouble getting in.

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Re: President Trump - Dealing with the Russians
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2016, 12:59:48 PM »

Clinton is a disgrace, a criminal, corrupt and inept.   


Clinton will probably be elected by the people.  Personally, I think Trump as president is all the same things you mentioned for Clinton. 


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