Did I Screw Up?

[2tallbill]

Maybe I did not make it very clear in my original post but I did have sex with her a lot of very enthusiastic wild sex. On our second meeting. I was testing her to see if she would be compliant with me sexually and she always was.

My reading of your original post was that you didn't have sex with her
and that's why I said she wasn't a good girl. A girl who didn't have sex
with you isn't serious about you and no good girl who wasn't serious
would ask you for anything including shoes.

I was making my advice/comments without this key piece of information.

I don't know you or her.

So I have to ask for more details. It is the second or third date and how does this conversation go?

On and on.
Like this?
I am a bit sceptical.

You have 10,000 detailed conversations before you ask any woman to
marry you. Don't assume, ask. If she is a serious woman she will welcome
these conversations and begin initiating many of them herself.

A total of about 15 days so far. Talk on skype and text almost every day. Talked about finances a few times but not so much in detail.

Herein lies the problem. You haven't put in the time getting to know all
about a girl you are considering marriage. Would you ever date a girl
from the USA 15 times and then propose marriage?

You don't know enough to marry a girl after 15 days and not having
a thousand detailed conversations

I don't know enough to advise you about this woman and you haven't
had the long conversations about life together that you should have.

I visited Angel Eyes 4 times and she visited me 2 times before we got
married. We talked about disciplining children. What happens when her
daughter gets into a disagreement with me. Who does this who does that.
You should have conversations on everything from child rearing, to goals,
to what goes in the refrigerator to what goes in the cupboards.

You should draw her a very clear picture about yourself and your goals,
dreams and aspirations. You should know hers as well. You should know
how many blankets she has on the bed at what temperature and what
the last book she read.

You need to trust the woman you are engaged to marry and trust her
completely. I totally trust my Angel Eyes (except to get ready on time
or to keep her cellphone charged).

There are so many questions both of you need to explore. 15 days with
boots on the ground is not enough and you aren't having enough
of the important conversations about the nuts and bolts of getting
married, raising a family and living together forever.

Take the money out of this for now and start working diligently to find
out her opinions on everything from grounding a sassy teenager to
what the ground rules on arguing about something.

What happens if the daughter stays out all night? What happens if
she hates you (she will occasionally).

You need to spend the time, effort and diligence to get to know any
woman you intend to marry.

You should either dump this woman or start putting in the effort that
every man needs to do in order to have a chance at international
marriage. It's a TON of work. If she's the right girl then these
conversations should fly on and on and she will become more
and more confident in you and the chances of success.

In my opinion, you connected with a girl but skipped the getting to
know her process. You might know how she likes to have her shoulders
caressed but not her opinions on how to live as a family together.

This is tough work, but enjoyable and it takes time. You might find out
that this is the perfect girl or the wrong girl.

My advice is take the time to do it right, or move on.

[JayH]

Agree .    Whole post is good!

[2tallbill]

If any american would talk about K1 after 2 visits and month of conversation in Skype, I've think he is desperate as hell and wants to buy me. Would you normally marry someone you know for 15 days? I'm pretty sure no. Why then you do it with foreigner?

Welcome to the forum.

I don't know the guy or the gal, so I wouldn't call either of them
desperate. He could be a hopeless romantic or something in that
vein and she could be the same or similar.

He's here now and will get a lot of advice. Some of it will be very
good and some of it will be more dubious. He should sift through
the advice and use the advice he finds most applicable to his goals,
personality and situation and most importantly not take any of it
personally.

Most of the guys here are trying to help but none of us know
anything about his situation except what he wrote here.

Udachi!

Bill 

[Trenchcoat]

I think it was the case that SF didn't have sex at first, she rebuffed him but still want stuff. It's only on the holiday with him did she do it, big time apparently.

I think if a girl is asking for stuff and not wanting to put out it really is a pee take and she wouldn't get anything off me since I would regard her interest in me to be zero. That said even if she did put out I wouldn't want to tie it to getting her stuff or even bringing that into the equation, I strayed too near that before and learnt it's not a good place to be.

At an early stage in a relationship even with sex time over again I would stress how early it was in the relationship to be serious/getting her stuff. She would either have to deal with that or walk until I knew her daily life better first hand.

[krimster2]

from reading your new posts, it seems like the feeling of getting "ambushed" by being presented with unexpected bills is more the problem than the actual money...

to reiterate, to avoid ambushes, you have to have a financial planning meeting with her...
and stick to whatever you agree to...
this way YOU are the one evaluating and deciding
instead of just giving her money whenever she asks for it...
but you need to be MUCH more into figuring this woman out...
because some of the things you showed us about her aren't NORMAL!!!!
and I would be very cautious about making a legal commitment to someone who IS NOT NORMAL AS WELL AS HER CHILD WHO YOU'VE NOT EVEN MET!!...
that is a SERIOUS risk for you to take...
if it wasn't for that risk, I'd say "sure go for it", you wouldn't have that much to lose...
but ACTUALLY you do have a lot to lose...
IMHO, your risk is higher because of the fact of not meeting the family is actually a VERY big deal and red flag
also, at the very least, the money issues , are a real problem for the two of you, since it happened multiple times....

I'd say, it's a fundamental compatibility issue which led to a breakdown in your relationship
and that's just NOT A GOOD SIGN when it happens so early in a relationship, because that USUALLY happens later....

like I said, I can't really see what you see because I am so far away
but even at this distance, I see there is something wrong with this woman, and how she is treating you....
unless she's a scammer...
because this is EXACTLY how a scammer would treat you!



 
 

[BillyB]

So I have to ask for more details. It is the second or third date and how does this conversation go?

So tell me, Russian Woman, I really like you but I need to know more about you.

How much do you make?

What are your expenses?

Do you have any serious financial issues you are dealing with?

Do you have to support anyone or have any health issues?

On and on.

Like this?

I am a bit sceptical.

Before the first date you can get most of the questions answered. Asking about her job and her life and lifestyle before a first visit is normal. You should also get a feel for her health. If I'm thinking about visiting a woman, In one message I would tell her my health is good and that I have no diseases or disabilities. Most women are glad I brought it up and proceed to tell me they are clean too. If a woman fails to respond with her health in the next message, I'll ask her straight up if she has any health problems.

What would your approach be?

Also, my buddy here at home said I should not contact her and just wait and see what she does next. Does she contact me? How does she contact me? Is she cold? Is she vindictive? Does she want to discuss the money issue more? Etc. This would be option 1.

Option 2 would be to run and never look back and cut my losses. Learn from my "ambush" (lesson learned I will not get ambushed again) and keep a closer eye out for next time. Potentially swearing off FSU women completely.

Option 3 is to go back to her and act as if there is not a problem. And set up an allowance until the K1 work is done. Then bring them over with a prenup and my assets protected by a trust.

Option 1. Silent treatment seems childish and you're not willing to problem solve. What if it backfires and nobody talks for an extended period of time?

Option 2. Run? You mentioned she's never lied to you. It's hard to find a person like that. She's also hardly on any dating/marriage sites so she's not engaging in lots of activity with lots of men on the internet. You feel you were ambushed? Everyday she discusses her life with you. One day she's short of money for her business. Being short on money happens to everybody from time to time. She's your fiancée. At the time she needs money to continue to work a business, you should've told her "Quit your job honey, I'll take care of you".

Option 3 Talk to her as if there isn't a problem. That is your best option. I'm not sure you got a problem. A prenup will be worth as much as toilet paper if you don't do it right. She may be under duress at the time you ask her to sign it. If it's not fair and doesn't come close to following your state guidelines, it can be thrown out in court. You will have to get her an attorney and translator during her signing otherwise she can claim she didn't understand and didn't have representation.

I am leaning toward option 1 or 2 at this point.

If you're really feeling you're getting used and can't trust her, then you should break up with her. Whether you're right or wrong about your feelings is irrelevant. It's just the way you feel and it's not healthy for either of you to be in a relationship with at least of person lacking trust.

[krimster2]

so Frrrrrrt, are you really a ferret or a "fancy bear"?

RU
GRU?

ya pravilno ugadal?

nyet? ne pravda?

then tell us about yourself,
and what is the strangest question you can think of asking us...

here is the question I would ask you...

if you were stranded on a dessert island with two men...
and each man was equally handsome and nearly the same in almost every way...
EXCEPT...
one man was Russian and the other American....
which one would you choose and WHY?

[Boethius]

She is a professional educated woman but does not make a lot of money.

So how was she paying her half of the $1900 rent before she met you?

Then she got Pneumonia and had to get treatment. I encouraged her to go to a good doctor and to do what she needed to get better and I would send her money. I ended up sending her about $800 for the doctor and the medicine. I thought this may be a lot for the doctor but I was trying to deal with my trust issues and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Everyone is entitled to free healthcare in Ukraine.  The issue with it is not its quality, but rather, that you may end up waiting a long time for treatment (say, 24 hours).  That can be sped up with a small donation, of say, $30.  One of my family members required surgery recently.  Top quality surgeon at a state hospital.  He was paid an extra $100.

If your lady has no insurance, she could go to a private clinic.  Costs vary depending on treatment, but if she received a battery of tests and the most expensive x-ray money can buy in Kyiv (not required for a diagnosis of pneumonia - listening to the lungs is usually enough), that would max out at US$155.  A prescription at a high end would be US$15, but if she is in Kyiv and was born there, the prescription cost is reduced significantly.

I don't think the lack of interest in shoe shopping is an issue.  My husband has never gone shoe, or clothes shopping with me, and we've managed to make it to well over three decades notwithstanding this heinous lack of interest in my shoe purchases. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

[Trenchcoat]

The girl I was with also said she never lied to me and also was hardly on any International dating sites much. Don't worry SF, she was fairly young so wouldn't have had a 16 yr old daughter/won't be the same woman, lol.

I think she was telling the truth in that no she wasn't a liar but she was manipulative. She seemed to think if she could get me to agree, is she asked (again & again, etc) and I accepted then I had agreed and doing so was my doing, hmmn...

I'm not sure with your woman though, those costs are high, she may be BSing or just exaggerating.

If she's not going full on by banging away on loads of dating sites or one big one a lot the she is living Kelly not a pro scammer. Pro scammers need to keep up with activity on those sites to keep the money rolling in. Only other thing is if she is writing to other guys for different girls then it wouldn't show up as much if she was an agency girl. You could set up a fake profile just to check out her profile to see when she was last on there. It doesn't mean she is an agency girl but it would show she is not committed to you.

A few months back we covered on here the topic of girls that didn't fall into the scammer/agency girl category but weren't good girls either. They were basically girls who were Materialist but not at it enough to make a living out of it. She may likely have objectives other than an agency girl as to what she wants from getting in with a WM.

[krimster2]

"My husband has never gone shoe, or clothes shopping with me,"

my wife takes me, just to carry all her purchases...
and I like picking out her clothes for her, as I have a good eye for what looks good on a tall woman like her
my cousin was a very famous fashion photographer, and he taught me a lot about fashion esthetics...
I'm strictly Louis Vuitton for myself in either blue or black...
this kinda look goes over very well in Russia if you combine it with a gold watch and ring and colorful shirt and tie...

[Maxx2]

Hey everyone I'm newbie here,


Would you normally marry someone you know for 15 days? I'm pretty sure no. Why then you do it with foreigner?

18 years ago I knew an American all prepared to meet and marry a Russian woman he never met in person. This was before video Skype. Just internet emails, snail-mail and the phone. She spoke very little English and he spoke zero Russian. He meets her at the SVO 2 airport in Moscow. They go to the American embassy and the Minister of Foreign Affairs that day to do some paperwork. Then off to her home city of Saratov. Her parents bribed the folks down at ZAGS to wave the 30 day wait rule. They were married within a week of meeting. 2 weeks later she was given a green card by the US Embassy. Goes to America. She gives birth to their child (a son) 10 months later. Americans are often in a hurry!


Welcome to the forum! 

[BC]

Maxx,

indeed in this venture often many corners are cut.  Sometimes it can work out, VERY often not and even when they do it can be a tough boat to row.

[scarface816]

What was the purpose of divulging your sexcapades? How old are you... 16?

I was questioned a lot about whether I had sex. And it is obvious this is a good gauge of a woman's interest which I am trying to determine using her actions.

But I also asked that people do not come on here and contribute nothing and just attack. I can see you have a lot of resentment for some reason. But don't put it on me. I am seriously trying to solve a problem and all you want to do is take potshots at someone who is asking for help. You have insulted her and me now. In two short posts.

What a miserable little life you must have.

[scarface816]

I have pointed out that it is a dumb conclusion to exclude a girl because she expected a gift .
It is very outmoded idea that accepting money makes her "not a good girl"  !!  It is a ridiculous conclusion.
 Also of not in the   OP  -- no mention of  buying anything at all ( hope I read that right?)  Buying flowers locally can easily run to $40 or more than twice that if sending from a distance !

Not entering shop--or standing outside is churlish ,weak in my view.Being involved and interested is part of forming a relationship.
Getting wound up over $40 is just plain dumb.

So once again criticism but no real advice. Guys I can take you throwing shit at me. But at least offer some alternative. There is no need to be nasty. I know mistakes were made. But specifically what would you have done?

[jone]

I gave you specific advise but you didn't even acknowledge it.  All this second guessing and mucking around is useless.   The only way to find out if this is the one is to spend time with her.   Not just a day or a week.   But serious time.   You haven't done that.   So everything else is simply mental masturbation.

Until you know what it is to live with a woman from Eastern Europe you will never know if you are compatible.  I can tell you wonderful stories and horrific ones.   All that they amount to is that every person is different.  Sex, no sex, give her money, don't give her money..... again, all you can do is live together for awhile and see if it works out. 

My suggestion is to fly to her city, spend time with her.   Spend time with her daughter.  Spend time with her family. All you really know is a two week stand with some correspondence.   And that does not a relationship make.

[scarface816]

I gave you specific advise but you didn't even acknowledge it.  All this second guessing and mucking around is useless.   The only way to find out if this is the one is to spend time with her.   Not just a day or a week.   But serious time.   You haven't done that.   So everything else is simply mental masturbation.

Until you know what it is to live with a woman from Eastern Europe you will never know if you are compatible.  I can tell you wonderful stories and horrific ones.   All that they amount to is that every person is different.  Sex, no sex, give her money, don't give her money..... again, all you can do is live together for awhile and see if it works out. 

My suggestion is to fly to her city, spend time with her.   Spend time with her daughter.  Spend time with her family. All you really know is a two week stand with some correspondence.   And that does not a relationship make.

Thanks for the advice sorry I did not acknowledge you earlier there have been many details and items to deal with while working and traveling. And I do agree with you I do need to spend more time with her. And that is normally how I have done relationships.

With this girl there did seem to be a bit of a rush. Probably because we both seem to have a strong feeling for each other. And that is my gut or intuition. Which may be wrong or right.

But you are right the real relationship is when you live together and that takes time. I lost sight of that. But I am learning believe me.

[scarface816]

My reading of your original post was that you didn't have sex with her
and that's why I said she wasn't a good girl. A girl who didn't have sex
with you isn't serious about you and no good girl who wasn't serious
would ask you for anything including shoes.

I was making my advice/comments without this key piece of information.

I don't know you or her.

You have 10,000 detailed conversations before you ask any woman to
marry you. Don't assume, ask. If she is a serious woman she will welcome
these conversations and begin initiating many of them herself.

Herein lies the problem. You haven't put in the time getting to know all
about a girl you are considering marriage. Would you ever date a girl
from the USA 15 times and then propose marriage?

You don't know enough to marry a girl after 15 days and not having
a thousand detailed conversations

I don't know enough to advise you about this woman and you haven't
had the long conversations about life together that you should have.

I visited Angel Eyes 4 times and she visited me 2 times before we got
married. We talked about disciplining children. What happens when her
daughter gets into a disagreement with me. Who does this who does that.
You should have conversations on everything from child rearing, to goals,
to what goes in the refrigerator to what goes in the cupboards.

You should draw her a very clear picture about yourself and your goals,
dreams and aspirations. You should know hers as well. You should know
how many blankets she has on the bed at what temperature and what
the last book she read.

You need to trust the woman you are engaged to marry and trust her
completely. I totally trust my Angel Eyes (except to get ready on time
or to keep her cellphone charged).

There are so many questions both of you need to explore. 15 days with
boots on the ground is not enough and you aren't having enough
of the important conversations about the nuts and bolts of getting
married, raising a family and living together forever.

Take the money out of this for now and start working diligently to find
out her opinions on everything from grounding a sassy teenager to
what the ground rules on arguing about something.

What happens if the daughter stays out all night? What happens if
she hates you (she will occasionally).

You need to spend the time, effort and diligence to get to know any
woman you intend to marry.

You should either dump this woman or start putting in the effort that
every man needs to do in order to have a chance at international
marriage. It's a TON of work. If she's the right girl then these
conversations should fly on and on and she will become more
and more confident in you and the chances of success.

In my opinion, you connected with a girl but skipped the getting to
know her process. You might know how she likes to have her shoulders
caressed but not her opinions on how to live as a family together.

This is tough work, but enjoyable and it takes time. You might find out
that this is the perfect girl or the wrong girl.

My advice is take the time to do it right, or move on.

Bill I want to thank you because there is a lot of concrete advice here. And it makes much sense to me. Perspective is always an important part of a relationship and the complexity of to people from two cultures. I appreciate it.

We have had many detailed conversations about goals and dreams and how we deal with life and specific issues. But we have not had enough of them. And this issue exposed this. Fifteen days on the ground is not enough. That is on me.

And I believe at this point the trust is not there. So as you say I need to get on with knowing her or move on.

[scarface816]

I  have been involved  in long and short term relationships over quite a few years !  I am currently ( 4 years) in a relationship  and spend  a LOT of time in Ukraine --  and as such I am very current with real costs and expenses -- and  attitudes .

The 10k= a small cost to spend to succeed. If you believe she is the "one" -- it is peanuts compared to cost of making a long term mistake.I would not waste it - but there is a cost to the exercise .

Paranoid --is seeing "scam" where there is none -- sure be careful-- but surely that is part of the whole exercise.Getting hung up on a $40 pair of shoes--just plain dumb. It was obvious she was doing a test -- not to set up future scams but to see if you were a tight arse.
Asking for money and gifts- set off radar ?  Short answer -- no.  You put the pressure on to have sex  -- what was she to think? That you were a sex tourist? hit and run etc !!  You need to understand there is a procession of big noting guys promising the world and delivery less than a page on a map ! There is 2 sides to this story --recognise that.That covers the PS2 part also I think?

She lives a modest lifestyle with her daughter.      OK -- that says she will not have a lot of "spare" money-- so every bit counts. Refer my comments-- "taking care of her" 

How would I do it differently?   mmmmmm suggestions only and each case is different. If you have a few bucks behind you -I would put that in context   eg being US comfortable does not make you an arab type zillionaire that can throw money around extravagantly.Explain every dollar gets earned !

I am not in the ditch her camp -- my view is proceed with caution -reasonable caution not paranoia !

Thanks for the specifics. Your perspective is welcomed. I probably was a bit paranoid after hearing so many stories about scams and being determined not to be scammed. But you have to also put into perspective that I have never been cheap with any woman that is with me and is mine. I told her this also. I do think the shoe thing was a test and she almost said as much.

And I overreacted. Live and learn. I like what you said about putting it in context about finances and spending every dollar gets earned. This is simply about setting boundaries and sticking to them. Which I did not. I did in many areas but not with money.

I also like what other folks said about putting in the time and meeting all of the family, not just the daughter. She evidently has a close extended family that she visits often. I should visit them also.  This was a big fail on my part and acknowledged.

[scarface816]

If I happened to meet a woman who was into shit testing me over $40 she's not going to see me again, period. And this is after the OP flew all the way to Eastern Europe and after their lengthy online conversations.

I'm not a tight ass by any stretch, but putting up with women who play silly mind games and shit tests, forget it! Move on and find a good girl. The OP has to make a judgement on her character, from what I've read I'd move on.

There is a point here.

[scarface816]

Hey everyone I'm newbie here, found this website absolutely randomly and began to read posts by different topics. Well, as for me, whole this story seem bit weird. First of all I would be warned about one thing: how businesswoman can have so much free time daily to speak with someone via Skype and how person can leave job so easy just to meet with him. Even if it was random secretary or cleaner, she wouldn't be able to just leave everything and go somewhere. Here normally you say to boss when want to get vacations 6 months before. I am businesswoman too and normally spend 6 days at work and often have to be in the office till midnight to deal with all things. Plus, normally person after coming home is tired and can't wait just to relax. Spending hours talking with foreigner isn't thing to do it. I would understand if it was student or unemployed woman with bunch of free time, but businesswoman living in Kiev and having full time job no way. Maybe I understood smth in wrong way, but this is already big red flag and absolute nonsense.
Second, why you didn't speak with her about finances, how does she live back in Ukraine, how much she makes per month, what are her expectations for future, etc. ? What if she expects to get luxury lifestyle and you can give her less than she has in Ukraine? Plus, as for me, this sh*t about buying shoes and sending money is at least arrogant. Even if I didn't earn a cent, I wouldn't dare just to ask to buy shoes. What the heck is this? If she has troubles with paying for rent, it means her business is rather in massive troubles or don't exist at all, maybe she can't manage money as someone wrote. Such rent price can exist only if office is in some business centre in top area.
Third, you met her only few times. Why such a big rush into marriage? To be clear, it's hard to understand why americans want to go through K1 process with woman they barely know. Let's say, she really does have a business and it's enough successful not to quit it, why then she can't get travel visa or why you can't visit her once a 6 months or smth like this. What's the problem? 
My advice is:
a) speak with her asap and make everything clear. No need to make drama or get mad on her, just talk. If she will say smth like: "If you don't believe my words, we're done", let she go. She lied. Block and forget. Let she find another victim. Sex means nothing. Even ukrainian women can have it for fun or manipulation, don't forget it.
b) don't rush into K1. There is nothing wrong into getting know each other and take your time.
c) don't send money so easy. Most eastern european women get into dating with foreigners rather to earn smth or move to more developed country in the easiest way possible. Stop thinking they are desperate and can't find local man. I don't know anyone who couldn't do it, even if its single mother with 4 kids. Americans are the most easy to get money out. Dutch or german man could send ukrainian woman maybe 50-100 euros, bring some cheap presents, rent affordable Airbnb for lets say 30 euros and done while americans always go to center, most expensive, but not best restaurants, easily throw money into nothing and rush, rush, rush. If any american would talk about K1 after 2 visits and month of conversation in Skype, I've think he is desperate as hell and wants to buy me. Would you normally marry someone you know for 15 days? I'm pretty sure no. Why then you do it with foreigner?
Really people, keep your eyes opened. I don't care about your money, you can throw it on any wh*re you want, but don't be naive and believe into everything they are telling.

Thank you and thanks for the concrete advice. This is helpful as well as your perspective. A couple of comments.

You are right about the short time 15 days on the ground and to VISA a mistake I acknowledge. I think the distance put pressure on me. Because she was ready for it but did not put pressure on me.

She was busy with work many times. We did not talk hours per day. May 1 to 2 hours at around 9 or 10 pm her time several days per week. And time, when she was available, was a problem for her sometimes.

I agree we need to spend time talking about finances as several people have noted. And talking about her expectations and mine. Expectations is where a lot of this goes wrong. She expects one thing and I expect another.

[scarface816]

from reading your new posts, it seems like the feeling of getting "ambushed" by being presented with unexpected bills is more the problem than the actual money...

to reiterate, to avoid ambushes, you have to have a financial planning meeting with her...
and stick to whatever you agree to...
this way YOU are the one evaluating and deciding
instead of just giving her money whenever she asks for it...
but you need to be MUCH more into figuring this woman out...
because some of the things you showed us about her aren't NORMAL!!!!
and I would be very cautious about making a legal commitment to someone who IS NOT NORMAL AS WELL AS HER CHILD WHO YOU'VE NOT EVEN MET!!...
that is a SERIOUS risk for you to take...
if it wasn't for that risk, I'd say "sure go for it", you wouldn't have that much to lose...
but ACTUALLY you do have a lot to lose...
IMHO, your risk is higher because of the fact of not meeting the family is actually a VERY big deal and red flag
also, at the very least, the money issues , are a real problem for the two of you, since it happened multiple times....

I'd say, it's a fundamental compatibility issue which led to a breakdown in your relationship
and that's just NOT A GOOD SIGN when it happens so early in a relationship, because that USUALLY happens later....

like I said, I can't really see what you see because I am so far away
but even at this distance, I see there is something wrong with this woman, and how she is treating you....
unless she's a scammer...
because this is EXACTLY how a scammer would treat you!

Excellent points and something to think about. This is not getting any easier. lol

[scarface816]

Before the first date you can get most of the questions answered. Asking about her job and her life and lifestyle before a first visit is normal. You should also get a feel for her health. If I'm thinking about visiting a woman, In one message I would tell her my health is good and that I have no diseases or disabilities. Most women are glad I brought it up and proceed to tell me they are clean too. If a woman fails to respond with her health in the next message, I'll ask her straight up if she has any health problems.

Option 1. Silent treatment seems childish and you're not willing to problem solve. What if it backfires and nobody talks for an extended period of time?

Option 2. Run? You mentioned she's never lied to you. It's hard to find a person like that. She's also hardly on any dating/marriage sites so she's not engaging in lots of activity with lots of men on the internet. You feel you were ambushed? Everyday she discusses her life with you. One day she's short of money for her business. Being short on money happens to everybody from time to time. She's your fiancée. At the time she needs money to continue to work a business, you should've told her "Quit your job honey, I'll take care of you".

Option 3 Talk to her as if there isn't a problem. That is your best option. I'm not sure you got a problem. A prenup will be worth as much as toilet paper if you don't do it right. She may be under duress at the time you ask her to sign it. If it's not fair and doesn't come close to following your state guidelines, it can be thrown out in court. You will have to get her an attorney and translator during her signing otherwise she can claim she didn't understand and didn't have representation.

If you're really feeling you're getting used and can't trust her, then you should break up with her. Whether you're right or wrong about your feelings is irrelevant. It's just the way you feel and it's not healthy for either of you to be in a relationship with at least of person lacking trust.

Thank you for the concrete advice. I am taking notes.

[scarface816]

So how was she paying her half of the $1900 rent before she met you?

Everyone is entitled to free healthcare in Ukraine.  The issue with it is not its quality, but rather, that you may end up waiting a long time for treatment (say, 24 hours).  That can be sped up with a small donation, of say, $30.  One of my family members required surgery recently.  Top quality surgeon at a state hospital.  He was paid an extra $100.

If your lady has no insurance, she could go to a private clinic.  Costs vary depending on treatment, but if she received a battery of tests and the most expensive x-ray money can buy in Kyiv (not required for a diagnosis of pneumonia - listening to the lungs is usually enough), that would max out at US$155.  A prescription at a high end would be US$15, but if she is in Kyiv and was born there, the prescription cost is reduced significantly.

I don't think the lack of interest in shoe shopping is an issue.  My husband has never gone shoe, or clothes shopping with me, and we've managed to make it to well over three decades notwithstanding this heinous lack of interest in my shoe purchases. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Thank you for this. For me, this is a huge red flag. It was I who insisted that she go to see a "good" doctor out of my concern for her. And it is apparent that she took this gesture of mine and used it to extract $800 dollars from me. This is a problem that has nothing to do with the money and everything to do with trust and honesty. And also indicates that maybe I wasn't paranoid.

Also, thank you for your perspective on shoes. I was married for over 20 years my wife loved to shop I spent huge amounts of money on her during that time and rarely ever went shopping with her. But she was American.

[krimster2]

well I gotta say that for a "new guy" you're not doing too badly...
you did better on your first attempt than most...

and you're handling things VERY well here...
I would be optimistic about your future prospects in the FSU!
but remember, it's RUSSIA!
the map is not the territory!
so you have a LOT to learn!
the joy that is found in the victories, is worth suffering the pain of defeat...
so let the prospect of a future victory guide you.
a LOT of successful guys are on this board (and one or two who arent't but they have lessons to teach as well!)
if you keep persevering, you'll get there!

[scarface816]

Thanks man. I am working on it.

Let me ask you another specific. You talked about a financial planning meeting early, and Frrrrrt, and a few others mentioned this.

How would you suggest going about this. Because I have never done this with a woman in early dating.

First or second or third date?

In person or via skype? Does this matter?

Before sex or after sex?

I have dated many women but this is new ground for me.