Russia's Obsession with Ukraine

[Admin]

In the latest installment of news from Russia, I could not help but notice in the interview with Gleb Pavlovsky, that he continually referenced events in Ukraine.

As a personal advisor to Putin, and the head of the "Effective Politics Foundation" - I wonder why he seems so intent on events in another country - especially Ukraine??

Also, his comment that, "initiative has been bred out of the people" sounds, to me, quite ominous coming from an influential leader. It sounds at least condescending - and more like the precursor of a mentality that gives people very little room for self-determination - quite contradictory to his earlier assertion that, "we [Russia] are a democracy."

These apparently contradictory comments sound odd to my western interpretation. Am I mis-reading it?

- Dan

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Dan, do you have a link for that article? [/color][/size][/b]
"initiative has been bred out of the people" [size="3"][color="darkred"]does sound condescending. Maybe he's just acknowledging the effectss of the former Soviet system and wants to deal with it. Since the big split, which govt has done a better job at eliminating corruption- Ukraine or Russia? Maybe he refers to Ukraine often, simply because Ukraine is the country that is closest to Russia in historical terms, going back to the kingdom of Kyiv-Rus. Does he view Ukraine with contempt or admiration? -Doug[/color][/size][/b]

[Admin]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Dan, do you have a link for that article? [/color][/size][/b]
"initiative has been bred out of the people" [size="3"][color="darkred"]does sound condescending. Maybe he's just acknowledging the effectss of the former Soviet system and wants to deal with it. Since the big split, which govt has done a better job at eliminating corruption- Ukraine or Russia? Maybe he refers to Ukraine often, simply because Ukraine is the country that is closest to Russia in historical terms, going back to the kingdom of Kyiv-Rus. Does he view Ukraine with contempt or admiration? -Doug[/color][/size][/b]

Doug,

Look over at the RWD section called "News From the Russian Front".

- Dan

[andrewfi]

Dan ~ I do not think that the two comments are contradictory at all. They are simply a reflection of in the first case, opinion that can be validated by observation and the second is an established fact.

In Soviet times, there was little room for individual initiative, indeed for many, this was one of the benefits of life under the Soviet system. People knew exactly their place, they knew they did not have to expand their role and life was pretty comfortable for most.

Ask many who lived under the Soviet system for long enough (perhaps 35 and older) and they will tell you that (1) Life was in many ways better (read easier) and (2) It was easier because they did not have to show too much initiative. For your own experiences, you have probably found that a disapointingly large part of the population in this region is not over endowed with the individualistic tendencies that go with initiative, but also that in the west, many, if not most, people would be content with less being demanded of them in terms of individual thought. if t'were not so, then perhaps many of the indignities nowadays being heaped upon the US citizenry would not be tolerated, or supported!)

[Oosik]

I've spoken to several men there my age and they all say things are better. I guess it depends on who you talk to.

I would see them worrying about Ukraine because Ukraine just threw off a post-peristroika dictator wanna be. Maybe Russians are wondering what kind of things their next national election cycle will bring, and a Orange Revolution of their own could be in the cards. Or another coup attempt by the new hardliners. Or...

[ronin308]

If you read some of the classic Russian Lit, you'll the initiative thing goes back further than just the Soviet Union. 

As to the focus on the Ukraine, I think it is similiar to our focus on Mexico.  If there was a political upheaval there it would definately influence what happens here.

[Rvrwind]

I am finding a lot of the focus on Ukraine is in Ukraines desire to join NATO. That & the fact that that Ukraine still wants Russia's support. You can't have it both ways. Although Russia has a dialogue with NATO, buddies they are not.

Russia is also afraid of NATO expansion into Ukraine which in my opinion is a legitimate fear. Nato is slowly encircling Russia & will soon have a ring around the entire country. This is as far as Russia is concerned a legitimate fear. Although NATO is not an enemy persay, their expansion into Post Soviet Territory is non the less disconcerting.

When before Russia only had ICBM's based in the USA pointing at them, now they are finding shorter ranged missiles & air fleets right on their doorstep. As well as US Warships in the Back Sea under the NATO umbrella. Totally unheard of in the past.

That & the fact that most if not all of Ukraines Military Complexes are in one way or another tied to the Russian ones makes for some very nervous people in Russian Hierarchy. Also a lot of propaganda about the preconcieved Russian Military might is totally unfounded & nothing more than fairy tales. But the west seems to love to make Russia out to be the bad guy.

Although many may not agree with the way Russia governs its people it has nothing to do with you, it is their way & if the Russian people wish to change it, they will. Many of us do not agree with the way Canada & the US are governed but Russia doesn't make it their buisness to change it. That is up to the native population to change & nobody else. Those of us who didn't like it, left, period & those in Russia who don't like it can leave as well.

All people are free to make their own decisions in life. Unfortunately I find most people content to sit in front of their TV sets with a beer in their hands & bitch about their lot in life while very few of us have the wherewithal & gumption to actually get out & change things & our lives. Unfortunately there are way too few of the latter to make a real difference in the entire scheme of things.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner