The Myth of Russian Humiliation

[AC]

I understand "energy independence" as having own recourses.
They have shale oil? Let them use it but gas is Russian.

That would require Western investment in Ukraine.  Are you willing to have American and Dutch (like Shell) companies fracking and drilling for oil in Ukraine, or are you going to claim that it's some sort of CIA conspiracy to get control of their country?

[Shadow]

That would require Western investment in Ukraine.  Are you willing to have American and Dutch (like Shell) companies fracking and drilling for oil in Ukraine, or are you going to claim that it's some sort of CIA conspiracy to get control of their country?

I thought Joe Biden has already purchased those rights?
Apart from that, fracking is not exactly seen as safe here in Europe.

[AC]

I thought Joe Biden has already purchased those rights?
Apart from that, fracking is not exactly seen as safe here in Europe.

I really don't know about any of those particulars.  Clearly if the West were to invest in oil drilling in Ukraine it would also be good for both their economy and security.  But would Putin throw a fit and try to stop it?

After all he needs Western technology to keep his oil driven economy going.  But chances are in 10 years (as Gator posted) W. Ukraine will have a thriving economy while E. Ukraine and Crimea languish.

[Gator]

I thought Joe Biden has already purchased those rights?

I recall two separate consortia having purchased from Ukraine when Yanukovych  was president the right to explore and develop.  I do not know what has happened since then other the large sums paid by the consortium to Ukraine have disappeared.   Imagine that!

        Apart from that, fracking is not exactly seen as safe here in Europe.     

True, fracking is not seen as safe by Europe and by some here in the US.  Obama stated such when proposing alternative energies.  Meanwhile, the frackers kept fracking and helped to flood the world market with gas and oil, giving us the oversupply and weak price conditions of today.

The market oversupply will deter fracking more than environmental concerns because production costs now exceed wellhead revenue at today's market prices.  Nevertheless, existing fracking operations will continue as most of the production cost is in the form of debt to finance the initial construction (sunk cost in accounting terms). 

New projects will surely decline, yet I know someone who is drilling in Pennsylvania today on a new well and his company has more new projects budgeted and ready to start in 2014 and 2015.   This is why the price of oil will stay depressed for some time. 

Fracking the Ukrainian shale formations is further behind in the planning stage, so I doubt anything significant will happen in terms of new supplies until oil prices increase. 


A map of shale formations in Ukraine. 

http://fracking.velaw.com/shale-development-in-ukraine/


Note in the upper left of this webpage the link to "New York to Ban Fracking in 2015; December 17, 2014."  That supports the "unsafe" comment made by Shadow. 

The New York regulators are Muzh's former working compatriots and maybe he can enlighjten us.  2tallBill is in North Dakota and he too could enlighten us about  exploration and development  projections. 

 

[Doll]

That would require Western investment in Ukraine.  Are you willing to have American and Dutch (like Shell) companies fracking and drilling for oil in Ukraine, or are you going to claim that it's some sort of CIA conspiracy to get control of their country?

It is control

[lordtiberius]

I thought Joe Biden has already purchased those rights?

Got any proof? 

I say this because I do not like the creepy gaffe machine and will be the first to join you swift boating this oxygen theif.

Apart from that, fracking is not exactly seen as safe here in Europe.

Frack you dude!

[jone]

I recall two separate consortia having purchased from Ukraine when Yanukovych  was president the right to explore and develop.  I do not know what has happened since then other the large sums paid by the consortium to Ukraine have disappeared.   Imagine that!


True, fracking is not seen as safe by Europe and by some here in the US.  Obama stated such when proposing alternative energies.  Meanwhile, the frackers kept fracking and helped to flood the world market with gas and oil, giving us the oversupply and weak price conditions of today.

The market oversupply will deter fracking more than environmental concerns because production costs now exceed wellhead revenue at today's market prices.  Nevertheless, existing fracking operations will continue as most of the production cost is in the form of debt to finance the initial construction (sunk cost in accounting terms). 

New projects will surely decline, yet I know someone who is drilling in Pennsylvania today on a new well and his company has more new projects budgeted and ready to start in 2014 and 2015.   This is why the price of oil will stay depressed for some time. 

Fracking the Ukrainian shale formations is further behind in the planning stage, so I doubt anything significant will happen in terms of new supplies until oil prices increase. 


A map of shale formations in Ukraine. 

http://fracking.velaw.com/shale-development-in-ukraine/


Note in the upper left of this webpage the link to "New York to Ban Fracking in 2015; December 17, 2014."  That supports the "unsafe" comment made by Shadow. 

The New York regulators are Muzh's former working compatriots and maybe he can enlighjten us.  2tallBill is in North Dakota and he too could enlighten us about  exploration and development  projections.

I read that some of the fracking technology now being introduced is going to greatly reduce the wellhead price of extracting the oil.   It was an investment solicitation, but it sounded pretty credible.

[lordtiberius]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/09/us-ukraine-crisis-gorbachev-germany-idUSKBN0KI1US20150109

Gorbachev warns of major war in Europe over Ukraine

"A war of this kind would unavoidably lead to a nuclear war," the 1990 Nobel Peace Prize winner told Der Spiegel news magazine, according to excerpts released on Friday.

"We won't survive the coming years if someone loses their nerve in this overheated situation," added Gorbachev, 83. "This is not something I'm saying thoughtlessly. I am extremely concerned."

[JayH]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/09/us-ukraine-crisis-gorbachev-germany-idUSKBN0KI1US20150109

Gorbachev warns of major war in Europe over Ukraine

Putin and Russia will not accept a step back easily-- they will escalate in a show of brinkmanship.
That is the reason the west needs to be unequivocal in what it will accept--to repeat my self--have a big crisis now or a much bigger one later that may not be able to be controlled.
In case you missed it-- help Ukraine (now)to roll the Russians and the subsequent humiliation could be the catalyst for Russia to wake up.

[JayH]

Got any proof? 

I say this because I do not like the creepy gaffe machine and will be the first to join you swift boating this oxygen theif.


Frack you dude!

Biden was appointed as a director of a Ukrainian company involved--he is NOT the owner of the company.

[mendeleyev]

Biden's son was appointed as a director, not the VP himself.

Either way, it smells like a giant elephant fart in church. It was a stupid appointment given the way that Washington should have known Moscow would react. Sometimes the aliens along the Potomac have no brains--this was a fine example.

[lordtiberius]

Biden's son was appointed as a director, not the VP himself.

Either way, it smells like a giant elephant fart in church. It was a stupid appointment given the way that Washington should have known Moscow would react. Sometimes the aliens along the Potomac have no brains--this was a fine example.

This warrants more investigation.

[JayH]

I agree with Mendes comments.
 In the course of examining all options to encourage future investment in Ukraine the new government has consulted many people from around the world  who may be able to help in some way.
The problem with connections like Hunter Biden's is that it smells too much like the old ways of business being done--that reason alone should have been enough to show some caution--even if in every other regard he had legitimate contribution to make.
      The fact is -Ukraine cannot afford tainted business deals.

[lordtiberius]

      The fact is -Ukraine cannot afford tainted business deals.

Be wary of the Democrats and AC's buddies in the GOP