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Author Topic: Using Skype question  (Read 25203 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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Using Skype question
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2017, 02:23:25 PM »

So, if you can only Skype one woman at a time? Again, Skype is just a tool to help. Boe put it better than me. It is a great screening tool.  Why limit your options. It is very rare for a man to go to FSU without a plan and hope to meet someone on a trip. Bounder is not on a WMVM trip. He is living in Moscow. LIVING in Moscow. He not there for 30 days. He is there for an extended period. Unless you are planning on moving to an FSU city and live, your approach will rarely yield good results. Not sure why you are digging your heels in on this. I would venture that most, if not all of the success stories on here, started with some Skype contact (in the time the software has been available). Trust me, as you are afraid of scammers, Skype is an ideal tool to verify that the woman is real.


As Bounder put it, this site is for people like you. You are getting pounded because people are trying to help you and refuse to listen. I even offered to help you directly. *Shrugs* So go your own way. No skin off our noses, but don't expect much sympathy when the train wrecks start piling up.

Again, good luck. You are going to need it.

HDL

Who says they are right? Sure the guys that are married know a fair bit but even then stuff changes, the dating scene changes, technology changes.

Yes I've been wrong on here before, but the more I've learnt on here and more importantly the more experience I've got the better I feel I can weigh up the situation. Bounder is living out there but he is essentially, visiting(meeting) many. On an extended trip you could quite plausibly tell them you are out there for an uncertain but extended time. Being out there for an extended time at least lets the lady really get to know you rather than a 'here I am,looks like we hit it off but bye got to go now'. Ok works for some but realistically is it a great approach, a kind of fly by relationship. To me I'm not sure Skype allows me or the lady to come off at our best and crucially determining if their is chemistry is difficult, you may get an inkling but that is all I find. Sure Skype can weed out the odd non-starters but for me anything beyond that and I might be weeding out a girl with chemistry. Sure you need compatible values but too be honest unless the girl is real extreme I can get on with most after all she isn't going to be a female carbon copy of me. Meeting women on a visit many can weed out women too, people that are going to mess you around on messaging and even Skype are not going to bother if a meeting is suggested or at its worst will just not turn up. Your argument of Skype is just another tool reminds me of the old, send em flowers and get a pic trick from years ago - to verify they exist. Another tool for sure but often a pointless exercise as agency's had girls pic on file, etc. Skype to another tool but are we getting too bogged down on verifying a women existing rather than on the search itself. A bit like Silversurfer in the scamming thread getting too tied up with the scammer scene in online dating that he missed out in the actual scene. To me if I go there, invite a girl to meet me for lunch, she turns up then I know she exists. No having to write loads of messages, Skyping then arriving to find no attraction. I can see then either their is chemistry there or there isn't.   
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Using Skype question
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2017, 02:31:28 PM »
So what is the problem with saying "I fancy you, but until we meet in person, neither of us will know if it will work.  I am communicating with other women, and I encourage you to communicate with other men until we meet and decide to commit to one another."

You would have to make it clear you are looking for the future Mrs. Trench, you're not going to visit for a sexual adventure.

Some women may not like that, and that's their prerogative.  You have lost nothing if they choose to not communicate with you further.  I can assure you, even while skyping with you, almost all those women are still communicating, and sleeping with, UM.

I'm sure they are, kind of saying what we/they already know, I think though some women may get upset over this and take you for a sexpat. They tend to be the 'you decide on me and that means no other women' type until of course you meet and if nothing there then you can go on. It kind of undermines the whole vo approach in that once committed to this women don't like to think she's one of many if she does then apparently its a turn off. If you've not committed to vo and are reasonably tactful then arranging a meet on a vm should hopefully work fine. 
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Boethius

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Using Skype question
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2017, 02:35:30 PM »
So you will give up a tool that could aid your search because some women will reject you for it. 


Does that sound sensible?


Frankly, I think you are looking for excuses to avoid skype because it is difficult - difficult to speak with a woman whose language skills are lacking, difficult, probably, to find common subjects to discuss.  But at the same time, if you found a woman who was fascinating to speak to, those difficulties, I assume would fade.  I will let those with experience with skype weigh in on that.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline HoundDaddyLee

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« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2017, 02:48:32 PM »
So you will give up a tool that could aid your search because some women will reject you for it. 


Does that sound sensible?


Frankly, I think you are looking for excuses to avoid skype because it is difficult - difficult to speak with a woman whose language skills are lacking, difficult, probably, to find common subjects to discuss.  But at the same time, if you found a woman who was fascinating to speak to, those difficulties, I assume would fade.  I will let those with experience with skype weigh in on that.


Boe is spot on. Skype is the best tool to use before face to face meeting. And is indispensable during the periods between visits. I Skype twice a day with my lady. She speaks pretty good English, but there are times we have to use the translator. Seriously, if you cannot speak to a woman over Skype, you will never be comfortable face to face. I think Boe is on to something... You are looking for excuses.


HDL

Offline xiphoid

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« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2017, 01:07:37 AM »
Umm, after reading the back and forth I’d like to throw in my 2 cents. In the short time that I have actively been using Skype on a regular basis with a particular lady, I have very much benefited from the experience. Yes we are using the automatic translator but I still have felt chemistry and the sense of who she is as a woman and human being. If one simply looks carefully and pays attention to all the senses, the nuance of all her expressions, reactions, smiles or frowns will eventually tell you what you need to know: whether to meet her or not.  I believe Skype (or equivalent) to be an invaluable resource. Better yet, I think it would fill the void of being apart should the initial meeting be a success. With a little imagination one could show her where and how you live, make a virtual toast to her job promotion or her birthday or even share a virtual breakfast together while seeing & hearing each other online. So far this has been working for us. Where it is leading is still too early for me to say but even so…
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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2017, 03:18:32 AM »
Umm, after reading the back and forth I’d like to throw in my 2 cents. In the short time that I have actively been using Skype on a regular basis with a particular lady, I have very much benefited from the experience. Yes we are using the automatic translator but I still have felt chemistry and the sense of who she is as a woman and human being. If one simply looks carefully and pays attention to all the senses, the nuance of all her expressions, reactions, smiles or frowns will eventually tell you what you need to know: whether to meet her or not.  I believe Skype (or equivalent) to be an invaluable resource. Better yet, I think it would fill the void of being apart should the initial meeting be a success. With a little imagination one could show her where and how you live, make a virtual toast to her job promotion or her birthday or even share a virtual breakfast together while seeing & hearing each other online. So far this has been working for us. Where it is leading is still too early for me to say but even so…

Xiphoid, you've given birth to a new kind of romeo, a 'webcam romeo' never mind 'keyboard romeo', lol. So you have eaten breakfast with this girl but have not yet planned a visit? I notice from you're profile you have done a fair few visits in the past with no success? Well, I haven't been entirely honest here on this Skype thing perhaps, I have recently had a Skype session with a girl several day ago, it went well but like I say Skype is not something I hold much faith in. She seemed real happy in it, lots of smiling and some eye flirtation. I found her pretty hot :D and someone I could quite easily get along with. That said though I think meeting over Skype can heighten the mood somewhat and like I said earlier have these awkward barriers over whether there is really chemistry or just a fantasy situation. Anyway, we've got a visit planned in a couple of months. Now I've been in this situation about the same time last year with the first girl I visited, i.e a visit one basis. I'm much more cautious this time as although it was a nice time we spent together as many of you will recall there was to my frustration no chemistry. This time I am going to take longer of work to avoid falling into the same trap again. If I meet girl and we have the required chemistry mission accomplished and I can return home and have some much needed leisure time :) If there is not the required chemistry I will follow onto meeting up with many. I've got all my online profiles set up now and with a month of work will have time out there to call up some women for a series of meets. So if needs be I can deploy my vm strategy and not fall into the same trap of vo and it falling short of expectation with no recourse to salvage the situation. The first time was the last time for that one ;)
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline xiphoid

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Using Skype question
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2017, 03:58:32 AM »
Trenchcoat you once again reveal yourself. (Note: no phony smiley face) You are coming across as arrogant and smug; ignoring intelligent and experienced advice from other members here. You mock me for being a ‘webcam Romeo’ simply because I have discovered a new way to communicate? What difference does it make if I have or have not made plans to meet her after my “virtual breakfast”? Do you understand what romance means? No, I believe you probably do not. Unless you are telepathic don’t presume to know what constitutes as “success” as far as my personal life and travels are concerned. You know nothing about me. Yes, I have actually traveled to over 8 countries around the world over the years and more times than I can remember for reasons that did not always have anything to do with romance – something you seem to know little of. Furthermore I can say I have had many forms of “success” from my travels through experiences and lasting friendships including a special friendship. Now how about you and your 1-3 trips? Shall I mock you for that? No. Better to listen and learn. So why not simply forget Skype and move on to some other topic? It’s clearly not for you.
Beautiful girls, won't you walk a little slower, when you walk past me? - Robert Goulet

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2017, 05:42:30 AM »
Trenchcoat you once again reveal yourself. (Note: no phony smiley face) You are coming across as arrogant and smug; ignoring intelligent and experienced advice from other members here. You mock me for being a ‘webcam Romeo’ simply because I have discovered a new way to communicate? What difference does it make if I have or have not made plans to meet her after my “virtual breakfast”? Do you understand what romance means? No, I believe you probably do not. Unless you are telepathic don’t presume to know what constitutes as “success” as far as my personal life and travels are concerned. You know nothing about me. Yes, I have actually traveled to over 8 countries around the world over the years and more times than I can remember for reasons that did not always have anything to do with romance – something you seem to know little of. Furthermore I can say I have had many forms of “success” from my travels through experiences and lasting friendships including a special friendship. Now how about you and your 1-3 trips? Shall I mock you for that? No. Better to listen and learn. So why not simply forget Skype and move on to some other topic? It’s clearly not for you.

No wonder your still looking Xiphoid, this is not the sort of attitude FSW are looking for even I know that, you fly of the handle at the least little thing. I obviously unintentionally touched on a raw nerve. If the lady has yet to raise the idea of a visit or be accepting of one you need to ask yourself why? The basics of this game are that FSW are looking for a 'real man' someone who will commit to coming. If it is she that is keeping you in a holding pattern then you need to ask yourself why? After the number of Skypes you've had she should be baying for you to visit. I think you could well be nearing the point where she loses interest after all a web session of you and your bowl of cornflakes is only going to keep her interest so long. You need to get yourself out of webcam romeo mode and show her you are a man of action not talk, which as they say in the FSU is cheap. Good Luck!
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Nightwish

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« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2017, 09:40:15 AM »
No wonder your still looking Xiphoid, this is not the sort of attitude FSW are looking for even I know that, you fly of the handle at the least little thing. I obviously unintentionally touched on a raw nerve. If the lady has yet to raise the idea of a visit or be accepting of one you need to ask yourself why? The basics of this game are that FSW are looking for a 'real man' someone who will commit to coming. If it is she that is keeping you in a holding pattern then you need to ask yourself why? After the number of Skypes you've had she should be baying for you to visit. I think you could well be nearing the point where she loses interest after all a web session of you and your bowl of cornflakes is only going to keep her interest so long. You need to get yourself out of webcam romeo mode and show her you are a man of action not talk, which as they say in the FSU is cheap. Good Luck!

Can someone pinch me? Am I really reading this from trench?

Allow me to laugh and fall of my chair while doing it..

Hit any scammers lately Trench? Invited women to any bigger towns so you dont have to spend that extra buck going to see them? Making an effort to first get to know them before calling 1 out of 2 girls a scammer or gold digger..?
You you you of all people should just shut the f*ck up.. told you before.. your advice is not worth the bandwidth spent reading your crap..
You are looking for the wrong thing, in the wrong place and with the wrong type of women.. a true FSUW would eat you for breakfast and that is a trainwreck coming sooner then later..

Skype is the best invention since the computer, I think I spent more time on skype then anything else.. great way to get to know someone, and they can get to know me, I can show them where I live, where I work, how my life is, and every single one of them has been thrilled..
and yeah its been a few by now.. and I am not at all worried about it, one day she is there.. the princess I am looking for.. even though I have taken a break now for half a year..
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 09:44:32 AM by Nightwish »
Multitasking means screwing up several things at once.

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2017, 09:56:35 AM »
Can someone pinch me? Am I really reading this from trench?

Allow me to laugh and fall of my chair while doing it..

Hit any scammers lately Trench? Invited women to any bigger towns so you dont have to spend that extra buck going to see them? Making an effort to first get to know them before calling 1 out of 2 girls a scammer or gold digger..?
You you you of all people should just shut the f*ck up.. told you before.. your advice is not worth the bandwidth spent reading your crap..
You are looking for the wrong thing, in the wrong place and with the wrong type of women.. a true FSUW would eat you for breakfast and that is a trainwreck coming sooner then later..

Skype is the best invention since the computer, I think I spent more time on skype then anything else.. great way to get to know someone, and they can get to know me, I can show them where I live, where I work, how my life is, and every single one of them has been thrilled..
and yeah its been a few by now.. and I am not at all worried about it, one day she is there.. the princess I am looking for.. even though I have taken a break now for half a year..

Yes that's the problem Nightwish, its too easy to thrill the majority of girls on Skype, and this can get in the way of whether the girl is really into you when you meet.

I'm not surprised you needed a rest by your profile you were setting a pace most sex tourists would find hard to beat :D
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Nightwish

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« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2017, 09:58:35 AM »
Yes that's the problem Nightwish, its too easy to thrill the majority of girls on Skype, and this can get in the way of whether the girl is really into you when you meet.

I'm not surprised you needed a rest by your profile you were setting a pace most sex tourists would find hard to beat :D

again, you are clueless...................................
and secondly - envious much?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 10:30:29 AM by Nightwish »
Multitasking means screwing up several things at once.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2017, 10:57:24 AM »
The basics of this game are that FSW are looking for a 'real man' someone who will commit to coming.


Do you know what a "real man" means in Ukraine?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2017, 11:58:52 AM »

Do you know what a "real man" means in Ukraine?

It means someone who is always on a mission, has ambition and will work towards this even in his free time rather than kick back and do nothing.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2017, 12:01:34 PM »
Nope.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2017, 12:24:54 PM »
Nope.

Well to take it from the horses mouth:



Particularly around 7.20 in and so on.
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2017, 12:49:00 PM »
You're still missing this from the cultural perspective.  These are "real men" by FSU standards -


After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2017, 01:02:23 PM »
So guys who go out and take (get ) what they want. By whatever means necessary, aggressively and if necessary criminally.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Bounder

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« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2017, 01:22:51 PM »
How so Bounder? Are you not living of investments, do you need to work over there? I think you're right with the one to two week thing with a visit many strategy. Hence why next trip I am planning for a few weeks. Its a real bonus being out there all the time so you can meet as many women as you like. I've never found Tinder much cop in the UK, maybe it works better elsewhere or for certain persons. I think using different dating websites and diversifying your strategy are worthwhile exploring. Having the resources for continual dating beautiful women with few other commitments would feel like paradise I think :D

No, not at all. I only have a small start up fund and I'll need to earn my keep here. Right now I'm taking a certification course. Last week I had my first paying client :)

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« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2017, 01:35:47 PM »
No, not at all. I only have a small start up fund and I'll need to earn my keep here. Right now I'm taking a certification course. Last week I had my first paying client :)

Interesting to hear Bounder, thanks for letting us know. So what makes me think you're teaching English as a foreign language ;) I know some people do this or similar and get on well enough, saw a video of some old chap on You Tube not long back, he was teaching English and had a wife in an apartment, but he was happy and content. Still I think you're crazy to go over there without an income from the your home country. Whether its pension (if old enough) investment in whatever that can bring in a steady income. In the FSU as you no doubt know the $ and £ go a long way. Any girl that knows you have an income coming in of foreign currency such as these even is somewhat small is going to be re-assured you can keep both yourselves to a comfortable standard of living in a worse case scenario. Would free you up for more dating as well :) Still, if it was a now or never moment then I wish you luck with it all, foreign language teaching is supposed to be a bit of a resource for the dating scene I hear.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

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« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2017, 01:42:54 PM »
Interesting to hear Bounder, thanks for letting us know. So what makes me think you're teaching English as a foreign language ;) I know some people do this or similar and get on well enough, saw a video of some old chap on You Tube not long back, he was teaching English and had a wife in an apartment, but he was happy and content. Still I think you're crazy to go over there without an income from the your home country. Whether its pension (if old enough) investment in whatever that can bring in a steady income. In the FSU as you no doubt know the $ and £ go a long way. Any girl that knows you have an income coming in of foreign currency such as these even is somewhat small is going to be re-assured you can keep both yourselves to a comfortable standard of living in a worse case scenario. Would free you up for more dating as well :) Still, if it was a now or never moment then I wish you luck with it all, foreign language teaching is supposed to be a bit of a resource for the dating scene I hear.

You only live once and there are no promises on the length and the quality of that life. I expect I'm going to do just fine here. The sky's the limit.  ;)

Offline JayH

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« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2017, 04:27:24 PM »

Can someone pinch me? Am I really reading this from trench?

Allow me to laugh and fall of my chair while doing it..

Hit any scammers lately Trench? Invited women to any bigger towns so you dont have to spend that extra buck going to see them? Making an effort to first get to know them before calling 1 out of 2 girls a scammer or gold digger..?
You you you of all people should just shut the f*ck up.. told you before.. your advice is not worth the bandwidth spent reading your crap..
You are looking for the wrong thing, in the wrong place and with the wrong type of women.. a true FSUW would eat you for breakfast and that is a trainwreck coming sooner then later..

Skype is the best invention since the computer, I think I spent more time on skype then anything else.. great way to get to know someone, and they can get to know me, I can show them where I live, where I work, how my life is, and every single one of them has been thrilled..
and yeah its been a few by now.. and I am not at all worried about it, one day she is there.. the princess I am looking for.. even though I have taken a break now for half a year..
again, you are clueless...................................
and secondly - envious much?

The funny(not) thing about this guy is that he expects others to discuss their lives here.What he ( & others) miss is that there can be many valid reasons not to live your life on an open forum.
 He is stupid enough to believe the likes of DragonKid and his posting of salacious details ( almost certainly BS) and  his insulting posts to others and think that is acceptable behaviour.
He takes things that may have an element of truth in them that he has read here and then has the temerity to regurgitate them in "advice" to others--or as a statement of absolute fact !
What he has shown is that he is incapable of learning -- a procession of misguided well intentioned members here have tried to re direct him-- but no- he continue blundering along .
Even today --again--he starts a thread and includes a series of incorrect statements --and the argues about it when he is corrected !
As quite a few have observed-- fsuw will chop this guy to pieces . I doubt any woman anywhere would bother with him.

While I am at it  -- Nightwish,myself, and others wrote that many months ago .In this thread-- Jone,2Tbill,HDL have all written much the same and others expressed despair on this guy . Has it moved his thought process a skerrick? No !
Some think I was harsh --but this guy has gone on insulting Ukraine,Ukrainian women, other members here -- and learns nothing.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 04:37:26 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2017, 04:39:27 PM »
So guys who go out and take (get ) what they want. By whatever means necessary, aggressively and if necessary criminally.

No.  I listened to your whole youtube post.  This woman does not really understand what happened in the early 1990's.

The USSR had laws which prohibited selling goods on the street.  In Soviet times, it was because this was capitalism, which was forbidden.  There were markets where people could sell goods, but they were strictly monitored and controlled, and only existed from time to time, not continuously throughout Soviet history.  The law restricting such capitalist activity did not change after the collapse.  But, because of the attitude toward women, women could get away with selling things in spite of the law.  For example, people working in factories in the 1990's often were not paid with a salary, but they often received goods from the factory they worked at, such as, say, bricks.  So, a woman would take the bricks, and offer them for sale on a major street where a lot of people pass.

I had a family member in Kyiv who would go to a store and buy a common foodstuff, then sit outside a factory district, where perhaps 5,000 people would pass in short order, and sell that foodstuff at a 50 kopiky profit per unit.  As people were running home after work, it was often more convenient than going to a store, and she sold out of her foodstuffs every day she sat there. The police would come and tell her what she was doing was illegal, that she should pack up and leave or they'd arrest her.  She'd respond by telling them to bug off, she had a family to feed.  The policemen would shrug and leave her alone.  A man would not have received the same treatment, he would have been arrested.  This is the reason women carried out far more commerce than men, at least in public, in small things, in the 1990's.  It wasn't because of  inaction by men, it was the way the society is structured.

The woman in your link never used the term "real man".  Her description of what FSUW find attractive is no different than what most women world over find attractive in a mate.  No woman wants to be married to a man whose sole interest is sitting in front of a television with a beer and watching sports every night.  If you don't believe me, ask women you work with, or 10 random women in the street in your town.

A "real man" has little to do with "action".  It is an attitude which was honed by a proletarian culture and still exists.  It is partly why gender roles are more sharply defined in the Slavic post Soviet societies, and why those societies are pretty macho. 

Here is a better example of what would be viewed as a "real man".  Last year, a group of about fifty Afghan and North African asylum seekers were to be deported from a Nordic country (either Finland or Norway, can't recall offhand).  Rather than wait to return to their homelands, they decided to move to Russia, and from there, move west to the EU.  They were in Murmansk, and decided to visit a nightclub.  Once in the club, they started groping girls.  They soon learned they weren't in Western Europe. The local men took them outside and started beating the cr@p out of them for groping "our women".  The police were called to quell the brawl.  When the police came and learned what they brawl was about, they started beating the asylum seekers.   The RM faced no consequences, the asylum seekers were all arrested - well, other than the 20 or so who were so badly beaten, they required hospitalization.

Another example - in the Donetsk Peoples' Republic, an edict was issued advising women not to go to bars or nightclubs, because "normal women are home with their families, only sluts and prostitutes go to bars and nightclubs".  This is a "real man" mentality.  The term, and the mentality, as I noted, arises from a proletarian culture which, by all rights, should be extinguished by now, but which has proven difficult to overcome, let alone extinguish.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 05:32:04 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2017, 06:17:07 PM »
No.  I listened to your whole youtube post.  This woman does not really understand what happened in the early 1990's.

The USSR had laws which prohibited selling goods on the street.  In Soviet times, it was because this was capitalism, which was forbidden.  There were markets where people could sell goods, but they were strictly monitored and controlled, and only existed from time to time, not continuously throughout Soviet history.  The law restricting such capitalist activity did not change after the collapse.  But, because of the attitude toward women, women could get away with selling things in spite of the law.  For example, people working in factories in the 1990's often were not paid with a salary, but they often received goods from the factory they worked at, such as, say, bricks.  So, a woman would take the bricks, and offer them for sale on a major street where a lot of people pass.

I had a family member in Kyiv who would go to a store and buy a common foodstuff, then sit outside a factory district, where perhaps 5,000 people would pass in short order, and sell that foodstuff at a 50 kopiky profit per unit.  As people were running home after work, it was often more convenient than going to a store, and she sold out of her foodstuffs every day she sat there. The police would come and tell her what she was doing was illegal, that she should pack up and leave or they'd arrest her.  She'd respond by telling them to bug off, she had a family to feed.  The policemen would shrug and leave her alone.  A man would not have received the same treatment, he would have been arrested.  This is the reason women carried out far more commerce than men, at least in public, in small things, in the 1990's.  It wasn't because of  inaction by men, it was the way the society is structured.

The woman in your link never used the term "real man".  Her description of what FSUW find attractive is no different than what most women world over find attractive in a mate.  No woman wants to be married to a man whose sole interest is sitting in front of a television with a beer and watching sports every night.  If you don't believe me, ask women you work with, or 10 random women in the street in your town.

A "real man" has little to do with "action".  It is an attitude which was honed by a proletarian culture and still exists.  It is partly why gender roles are more sharply defined in the Slavic post Soviet societies, and why those societies are pretty macho. 

Here is a better example of what would be viewed as a "real man".  Last year, a group of about fifty Afghan and North African asylum seekers were to be deported from a Nordic country (either Finland or Norway, can't recall offhand).  Rather than wait to return to their homelands, they decided to move to Russia, and from there, move west to the EU.  They were in Murmansk, and decided to visit a nightclub.  Once in the club, they started groping girls.  They soon learned they weren't in Western Europe. The local men took them outside and started beating the cr@p out of them for groping "our women".  The police were called to quell the brawl.  When the police came and learned what they brawl was about, they started beating the asylum seekers.   The RM faced no consequences, the asylum seekers were all arrested - well, other than the 20 or so who were so badly beaten, they required hospitalization.

Another example - in the Donetsk Peoples' Republic, an edict was issued advising women not to go to bars or nightclubs, because "normal women are home with their families, only sluts and prostitutes go to bars and nightclubs".  This is a "real man" mentality.  The term, and the mentality, as I noted, arises from a proletarian culture which, by all rights, should be extinguished by now, but which has proven difficult to overcome, let alone extinguish.

I think we are all interested in the fascinating complexities of the "real man". While your analysis is thoughtful and add a lot to that discussion, it is only a dimension of it. You provide some rather dirty examples of the "real man" phenomenon, but you don't tell the whole story.

To start with "real man" means different things to different people. I have had personal experience with girls who are not familiar with the term " real man" and girls who use the term but define it in their own way, and not according to the narrow example you gave.

Your example is interesting, actually - the asylum seeking head of family took action to protect his family (real man). But in your story, soon he is groping girls in clubs (appropriate action was taken against him by real men). Your example is confusing. Are you confused as a self-avowed "femi-nazi"?

I'm not sure, but I see your biases creeping in. Girls who talk about "real men" are not all proletarian slime looking for someone to get a beating. There's much more to it than that. The term has evolved.

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« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2017, 06:27:26 PM »
There are different terms for "real man".  The most common one used is the one I have explained, and the one most FSU individuals would understand.  It is about a mentality.  My examples are illustrations of that mentality.  Until you speak Russian fluently and understand the nuances of culture, I will stick to my interpretation, which also happens to be that of Russians (yes, Russians living in Ukraine) I know, who are not "feminazis" (and note, that was in jest).

I lived in Ukraine, my last visit was last year, and I will say that normal people do not use this term.  Just as normal men don't use the term "femnazi" other than in jest or with irony.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 06:45:58 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2017, 07:01:20 PM »
There are different terms for "real man".  The most common one used is the one I have explained, and the one most FSU individuals would understand.  It is about a mentality.  My examples are illustrations of that mentality.  Until you speak Russian fluently and understand the nuances of culture, I will stick to my interpretation, which also happens to be that of Russians (yes, Russians living in Ukraine) I know, who are not "feminazis" (and note, that was in jest).

I lived in Ukraine, my last visit was last year, and I will say that normal people do not use this term.  Just as normal men don't use the term "femnazi" other than in jest or with irony.

"Real Man" is a term, the only one we are speaking about. But there are different definitions. You describe one aspect of a term that has evolved. Evolved. But until I can speak fluent Russian and become culturally Russian, you are right. There's no beating a cop-out argument like that. I guess you'll always be right (in my experience, this seems to be the definition of Boethius).

Noted, the jest. I miss your humour when written. And yes, while feminazi is often used in jest or irony, there is a very sad reality behind it in North America, one that turns people against feminism as a repugnancy. And that's sad.

 

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