The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis

[AC]

I read somewhere today that mobile crematoriums (3) have been brought into the separatist regions so that Russia does not have to ship bodies home for examination.  Now, lucky Russian families will simply get a notification that their son/husband has died in battle a training exercise and that due to circumstances it was impossible to recover the body.

Russia is the new Twilight Zone.  What a nightmare for the families of these soldiers.  Horrible. 

[calmissile]

Unless Putin is able to completely cut off the internet and all external sources of news, I expect sooner or later the public is going to wake up to his constant lies and propaganda.

[AC]

Unless Putin is able to completely cut off the internet and all external sources of news, I expect sooner or later the public is going to wake up to his constant lies and propaganda.

Well they are but Belvis says the lady named Elena something is a liar and the Russian government labels her some sort of foreign agent.  So it's dangerous for people to wake up one by one.  They better all wake up together so there's enough of them to take back their country.

[JayH]

I read somewhere today that mobile crematoriums (3) have been brought into the separatist regions so that Russia does not have to ship bodies home for examination.  Now, lucky Russian families will simply get a notification that their son/husband has died in battle a training exercise and that due to circumstances it was impossible to recover the body.

It is in marked contrast to Ukrainians who are taking DNA (at least) from all bodies found where possible--to try and identify and confirm when possible.
It is just another example of how Ukraine is doing it's best to behave with decent values--while the Russians are inhumanely pretending it never happened!

btw--I posted link to story previously

[JayH]

It is definitely a possibility-- and continue with destabilisation over all Ukraine-- and terrorist bombings.
Apart from potential short term aims-Putin is intent on making Ukraine pay as big a price as possible for independence and escape of Russian domination- so the stakes are high for Russia.
It is also another major reason why I would concede nothing to Russia  at any stage.If Ukraine can survive the immediate future of military attacks then time will be in Ukraines favour.
Sanctions( & hopefully increased sanctions) will impact savagely in another year- The sanctions are only in early days and only superficial results at this stage-when they really impact in Russia then they will be vunerable.
Militarily-Ukraine will get stronger,better organised & better trained and prepared --plus upgraded defensive weapons will see much greater pressure put on the Russians. The death toll and cost to Russia will not remain a secret in Russia for long-that will put pressure on Putin & the Kremlin lies.

Putin eyes benefits as rebels gain in Ukraine

 Fighting has surged in eastern Ukraine

* Putin blames Kiev but could see gains

* West threatens Russia with new economic pressure

By Timothy Heritage

MOSCOW, Jan 28 (Reuters) - Boxed into a corner by a financial crisis and the West's refusal to drop sanctions over the conflict in Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin has come out fighting.

After a relative lull in the conflict in east Ukraine since a ceasefire deal was reached last September, separatists have launched a new offensive. Kiev says the rebels are supported by 9,000 Russian soldiers.

Moscow has denied sending in troops and weapons, blamed the renewed violence on Kiev and regretted the deaths of civilians, but done nothing to distance itself from the rebel cause.

Whether or not the separatists are acting on Moscow's orders, battlefield setbacks for Ukrainian government forces may be seen by Putin as offering hope of negotiating from a position of strength over the conflict.

The former KGB officer may think he has no choice - showing any sign of weakness could be politically disastrous for him in Russia.

"Putin has nowhere to retreat to. For Putin, a retreat or a step back would mean a drop in his ratings and a rise in public discontent," said Olesya Yakhno, an independent political commentator in Kiev.

"The main thing for Putin is that discontent does not grow among his supporters. His supporters demand new territorial gains and any step back would be seen by them as a defeat."

Far from being cowed by Russia's economic crisis, aggravated by the sanctions and a fall in the oil price, Putin has been as defiant as ever against the West as it became clear it had no plans to ease the economic pressure.

Allies say such a stance will help Putin remain popular despite predictions that public discontent will grow as prices rise during the financial crisis.

"When a Russian feels foreign pressure, he will never give up his leader," First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov told the World Economic Forum in the Swiss resort of Davos last week, promising Russians would "eat less food, use less electricity".

Officials sent similar signals of defiance by dismissing a decision by S&P ratings agency to cut Russia's sovereign debt rating to "junk" status, with Putin's spokesman describing such moves as "politically motivated".

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/01/28/ukraine-crisis-putin-idINL6N0V62DT20150128

[JayH]

I read somewhere today that mobile crematoriums (3) have been brought into the separatist regions so that Russia does not have to ship bodies home for examination.  Now, lucky Russian families will simply get a notification that their son/husband has died in battle a training exercise and that due to circumstances it was impossible to recover the body.

It is in marked contrast to Ukrainians who are taking DNA (at least) from all bodies found where possible--to try and identify and confirm when possible.
It is just another example of how Ukraine is doing it's best to behave with decent values--while the Russians are inhumanely pretending it never happened!

btw--I posted link to story previously

Below is a story(please read the whole link story-it contains much of interest--

From the battlefront: A Ukrainian tank commander’s act of mercy
By Lucian Kim January 29, 2015

Like thousands of other combatants, Chaban took his smartphone with him. While Ukrainian government ministers and volunteer commanders often seem to spend more time writing Facebook posts than doing their jobs, social media have also allowed rank-and-file soldiers to stay in touch with friends and families. Geo-tagged social-media posts by Russian soldiers over the summer put a lie to Kremlin denials of military involvement in Ukraine. In wars past, soldiers spent downtime writing letters home. Today they hope they get a strong enough signal to post on Facebook.

Chaban is no different, and his Facebook page, written in Russian, is full of snapshots from the field and commentary on equipment. (It turns out a Belarusian night-vision scope is better than an American one.) On Tuesday, Chaban reflected on how soldiers get used to danger and described how his comrades blew up a rebel truck filled with ammunition. “This is war. After it’s over, it will affect people for a long time,” he wrote.

A day earlier, Chaban recounted a skirmish near the village of Sanzharivka, north of the surrounded Ukrainian outpost of Debaltseve, where he found a wounded Ukrainian soldier who had been run over by an enemy tank. “I don’t know how to communicate these feelings,” he wrote. “I’m even afraid to communicate these feelings and what I’ve seen to the civilian world. The scene I encountered screamed with horror.”

russian_commander
Alexey Chaban found this image on a phone that a Russian tank commander left in his vehicle after it was hit. It’s unknown where it was taken, but Chaban believes the man pictured is the tank’s former commander. REUTERS/Courtesy of Alexey Chaban

Chaban wrote his famous letter on Saturday night. In it, he addresses the mother of a Russian officer who survived a hit to his tank, together with his gunner and driver, on Jan. 22. “When they got out of their disabled vehicle, we just had to push a button in our tank and all that would have been left of them would have been a memory of our sinful world,” Chaban wrote. “We didn’t kill them. We let them go.”

Chaban goes on to explain to the mother that Ukrainians face a host of problems — corruption, crime, poverty, unemployment — and chased former President Viktor Yanukovych from office in February to have a better life. Chaban assures her that Ukrainians aren’t fascists who eat babies or rape disabled pensioners, but ordinary, peace-loving people who love their country and children. “Tell your son that making a living by depriving other people of their lives is NOT good. May he return home and find other work,” Chaban wrote. “May he live peacefully and not take sins on his soul.”

Chaban appealed to Facebook users to pass the letter on to the mother of the officer, who had left his mobile phone, with a Russian SIM card, in his tank. Chaban posted a picture from the phone, showing a worn, middle-aged man sitting atop a tank in fatigues and a black Russian tanker helmet. Chaban also included three phone numbers and a street address, presumably of the officer’s mother, that he’d found on the forgotten phone.

Reporters in the central Russian city of Voronezh confirmed that the three phone numbers were local: two were out of service, and the woman who answered the third, a certain Marina, said she had seen Chaban’s Facebook post but didn’t recognize the man in the photo. When reporters went to the address in the post, they met a pensioner named Tatyana Golubyatnikova who denied knowing the man or having any relatives fighting in Ukraine. The Russian journalists speculated that the Chaban post could be a mistake — or even a fabrication.

I also tried calling the three numbers and duplicated my colleagues’ results. “I have no idea how my number appeared on the Internet,” Marina said. “All the people I know live here. I’ve never seen that man.” Since the weekend, Marina said she had received phone calls from Ukraine, Moldova, and even Germany and Spain. “Of course, Russians aren’t fighting in Ukraine,” she said. “I can’t even imagine how two brotherly nations could fight each other.” Marina declined to give her last name, saying she didn’t need the unwanted publicity.

When I reached Chaban, I mentioned the doubts cast on his story by the Voronezh journalists. Chaban said that it was possible the owners of the phone numbers had been warned by the Russian authorities. He said there were other numbers on the officer’s phone that he hadn’t posted on Facebook.

I was curious why Chaban hadn’t taken the Russian tank crew prisoner. He and his men were in the middle of a firefight, confined to their tank, Chaban explained. “We could have shot them or let them go. We couldn’t have taken them prisoner. It wasn’t realistic.” Life-and-death decisions had to be made in a matter of seconds. Chaban told me he’s religious, though his faith isn’t the reason why he spared his enemies’ lives.

“I can’t say that at that moment I was thinking about God,” he said. “But you can’t kill unarmed people.” Chaban allowed that he might have reacted differently if he had lost a comrade in his five months in the war zone. “I don’t regret it. Why should we have killed them? I don’t think those three will fight anymore.”

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/01/29/from-the-front-a-ukrainian-tank-commanders-act-of-mercy/

[mendeleyev]

I read somewhere today that mobile crematoriums (3) have been brought into the separatist regions so that Russia does not have to ship bodies home for examination.  Now, lucky Russian families will simply get a notification that their son/husband has died in battle a training exercise and that due to circumstances it was impossible to recover the body.

 

It is a sin to cremate bodies in the Orthodox tradition, unless by some extra-ordinary cause such as dying in a fire. I imagine that the Russians will have to invent some fiery tales to placate those mothers and fathers.

[Brasscasing]

I read somewhere today that mobile crematoriums (3) have been brought into the separatist regions so that Russia does not have to ship bodies home for examination.  Now, lucky Russian families will simply get a notification that their son/husband has died in battle a training exercise and that due to circumstances it was impossible to recover the body.

It is a sin to cremate bodies in the Orthodox tradition, unless by some extra-ordinary cause such as dying in a fire. I imagine that the Russians will have to invent some fiery tales to placate those mothers and fathers.

Unfortunately (not to unnecessarily alarm anyone), in light of the recent reports of Ukrainians being executed, my first thought upon reading Jone's post was they're not there to cremate Russian casualties but to remove evidence.

Brass

[mendeleyev]

Interesting point, Brass.

[jone]

I correct my post from yesterday.  I saw the blog from Channel 5 that AK Mike referred to.  According to this station, there are 7 mobile crematoriums (crematoria?) that are now in use in Eastern Ukraine.  I would think that anything or anyone that the Russians do not want to acknowledge will go into those trucks and not come out.

I would like to see additional confirmation on this before we wax poetic about how bad this is.  If true, it is self explanatory and demonstrates the worst intent of the Russian government.

[AkMike]

If 7 are good enough for now then 15-20 should be better in the future. 

[JayH]

Still more coming all the time-- yet we still read the ridiculous Kremlin BS that in denying Russian invasion  dot dot dot dot.........

Soldiers of revealing the truth about the war against Putin Ukraine (World News)

American Journal publishes history of Russian soldiers who fought in Ukraine, and highlights a family of Russian soldiers killed in the Donbas. American and British editions continue to insist that Ukraine should equip at least to protect because open military aggression of Russia against Ukraine
The soldiers say they do not know that they were going to fight in Ukraine. "If I knew that I was going to war, I would have resigned in Kostroma. I have two small children at home, "- said one of the troopers. The publication notes that the military did not sign additional documents, although their current contracts do not provide for participation in hostilities abroad.

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/content/article/26820288.html

[Brasscasing]

Here's something that caught my eye under the heading-Why? What's the point unless her concerns were accurate or she inadvertently stumbled on to the truth...

Russian Mom Faces Treason Charges for Call to Ukrainian Embassy

..."A Smolensk woman faces charges of high treason after she phoned Ukrainian diplomats to warn them that Russian troops may be en route to their country, newspaper Kommersant reported Thursday"...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-mom-faces-treason-charges-for-call-to-ukrainian-embassy/515104.html

Now, a charge of Criminal Mischief I could understand but High Treason?

That's a charge reserved for crimes against the state. The only way this charge could be contemplated is if she in fact did let the cat out of the bag. In other words there was truth to her claim that Russian troops were enroute to Ukraine.

The Russian government may themselves have let the cat out of the bag by lending credence to Davydova's phone call raising the alarm to the Ukrainian authorities by actually charging her with a crime.

It'd be interesting to learn what the charges brought forward will be. If they're under Sec 275-High Treason or Sec 283-Disclosure of a state secret.

http://www.russian-criminal-code.com/PartII/SectionX/Chapter29.html

Brass

[JayH]

More --

Newsweek Europe Exclusive: Russian Soldiers Reveal the Truth Behind Putin's Secret War

Lyudmila Malinina’s voice trembled as she described the secret funeral she witnessed on a recent night in her small town of Sudislavsky in the Kostroma region of central Russia. At about 8pm, a truck parked at the cemetery a few yards away from her wooden house. The truck’s headlights stayed on to illuminate the ground for several men to hurriedly dig the grave, “as if they were thieves hiding something”, Luydmila says.

More neighbours popped out of their windows and doors to watch and discuss the strange scene, wondering why anybody would bury a relative at this hour. Besides, that part of the graveyard was reserved for the deceased in war, as somebody pointed out.


http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-truth-behind-putins-secret-war-269227.html#.VMmGSUInQwA.facebook

[SANDRO43]

there are 7 mobile crematoriums (crematoria?)

Since crematorium is a neuter Latin word, its plural crematoria would be the proper choice, as for moratorium/moratoria.

However, since Latin is not overly cultivated in the USA, its "adaptation" to an English plural form (i.e. crematoriums) is not surprising - see for instance how the plural of alga (algae) often becomes algi .

[Larry1]

Since crematorium is a neuter Latin word, its plural crematoria would be the proper choice, as for moratorium/moratoria.

However, since Latin is not overly cultivated in the USA, its "adaptation" to an English plural form (i.e. crematoriums) is not surprising - see for instance how the plural of alga (algae) often becomes algi .

I'm happy to see that Latin grammar is being discussed on the forums 

For those of you who didn't study Latin in school that was a joke on this topic.

[JayH]

 
Russia intent on shooting the messengers--!!
  Russia  jails 73-year-old human rights activist, leader of "Mother Prykum'ya" Lyudmila Bohatenkovu. .  Lyudmila Bohatenkoviy was charged under "fraud" charges defendants in the case four years ago, led by human rights activist. Bohatenkova was arrested and taken to the city police.

Russia put in jail 73-year-old human rights activist who investigated the case of the death of soldiers

Colleagues Bohatenkovoyi regarded as persecution of human rights activist "act of intimidation in connection with its activities." Bohatenkova engaged in protection of servicemen showed evidence of torture in the Russian army. In the past few months investigating the death of Russian troops in the fighting in eastern Ukraine.

In August Bohatenkova referred to the Council under the President of Russia in the development of civil society and human rights about 9 dead and 11 August 2014 in the area of ​​military range in the Rostov region nine Russian soldiers that military service under contract to the 18th mechanized infantry brigade .

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/content/article/26643528.html

[Anotherkiwi]

However, since Latin is not overly cultivated in the USA, its "adaptation" to an English plural form (i.e. crematoriums) is not surprising - see for instance how the plural of alga (algae) often becomes algi .

Now, that's one that I'VE never seen. 

[The Natural]

Well they are but Belvis says the lady named Elena something is a liar and the Russian government labels her some sort of foreign agent.  So it's dangerous for people to wake up one by one.  They better all wake up together so there's enough of them to take back their country.

Hahaha. Maybe I should open a business and export Mirrors to the US. Seems to me they are in great shortage.

[AC]

Hahaha. Maybe I should open a business and export Mirrors to the US. Seems to me they are in great shortage.

Only in the White House.   

[Muzh]

Only in the White House.   

Oh, how so?

[calmissile]

An excellent OP-Ed post in the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/opinion/roger-cohen-western-illusions-over-ukraine.html?_r=2

[AC]

The best part (IMO) from your link.

excerpt
"In fact, the Russian annexation of Crimea tore up by forceful means “the territorial integrity” and “political independence” of Ukraine, in direct violation of Article 2 of the United Nations Charter. It also shredded Russia’s formal commitment under the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 to respect Ukraine’s international borders. The “nationalistic violence” that has again raised issues of war and peace in Europe stems not from Kiev but from Moscow, where Putin has cultivated a preposterous fable of encirclement, humiliation and Western depredation to generate hysteria and buttress Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine."

[JayH]

The  media description as to what /who etc is happening in Ukraine has always irked me.The Ukrainian government has it's own reasons  in earlier times--but now it needs to be called what it is--an invasion and war against Ukraine.
Even on this forum we still have those in denial about Russia being responsible for this war-time to call it what it is.



Russia's war against Ukraine

In the beginning, we simply had the "Crimea crisis." That's what the Kyiv Post called Russia's military invasion of Ukraine's peninsula in February. By April, the crisis had spread. What was happening in the eastern Donbas, based on our assessment of the facts, led  to calling it "Russia's war against Ukraine." There were troops on the ground not seen before, military equipment not seen before and no genuine popular uprising by citizens against Ukraine.
It is to this day.  It's the most accurate description of the tragic events unfolding.

I have never believed in adopting the Ukrainian government's description -- an Anti-Terrorist Operation -- for many reasons.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/brian-bonner-the-terminology-of-war-380070.html

 

[Muzh]

I thought we were not going to post whole articles anymore.


What the hell is wrong with you Jay?


Are you dumb or stupid?