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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075487 times)

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Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2925 on: March 26, 2015, 09:58:04 AM »

In all those conflicts the US/administration did the right thing and fulfilled it's responsibilities/commitments regardless of public opinion at the time. Something Mr. Obama refuses to do.

Brass
I don't agree with your assertion that the US did the right thing in all these past interventions and others you didnt list. Some were good, some were not.  In addition, those past interventions don't have a bearing on this particular case in terms of "Does it make sense or not". I argue that it does not make good enough sense to arm.

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #2926 on: March 26, 2015, 10:10:47 AM »
You would be surprised at how little most Americans care about this conflict.   If it becomes a major one for us, then people will care more...when/if we suffer consequences/deaths people will wonder why we got sucked into it.  It is not crucial (to us) to participate any more than we already have.

Fathertime!

That's not correct, FT. I'm showing you through the links that Americans do care.

Will they care more in the future? I think so as well. Why? Because it's a pay me now or pay me later situation. Mr. Obama's stubborn refusal to take the appropriate action now practically guarantees that the west will need to take military action/intervention later.

In other words your belief that appeasing Russia to avoid conflict now will ensure your worst fears and concerns - direct conflict with the west/NATO  - becomes unavoidable within a few years.

Brass
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 10:23:34 AM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #2927 on: March 26, 2015, 10:22:40 AM »
I don't agree with your assertion that the US did the right thing in all these past interventions and others you didnt list. Some were good, some were not.  In addition, those past interventions don't have a bearing on this particular case in terms of "Does it make sense or not". I argue that it does not make good enough sense to arm.

It's to the American public's credit that public opinion doesn't automatically default for war to solve foreign policy issues. It blows the Putin propaganda fluffer's arguments out of the water.

Yes, each conflict was unique but the aggressor's motivations were similar. Past and recent history shows us that aggressor nation/dictators/organizations don't voluntarily stop being aggressors unless forced to do so. Russia/Putin is no different.

Brass
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline calmissile

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« Reply #2928 on: March 26, 2015, 10:29:50 AM »
It's to the American public's credit that public opinion doesn't automatically default for war to solve foreign policy issues. It blows the Putin propaganda fluffer's arguments out of the water.

Yes, each conflict was unique but the aggressor's motivations were similar. Past and recent history shows us that aggressor nation/dictators/organizations don't voluntarily stop being aggressors unless forced to do so. Russia/Putin is no different.

Brass

Very well said.   We also have the years of the cold war to know how Russia behaves and how they were kept in check.  Your analysis is spot on.

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2929 on: March 26, 2015, 10:44:13 AM »
Why do you agree with the idea of not arming Ukraine? What do you see as the pros and cons?
off the top of my bald head..
I see the big cons as we are going to wind up getting in deeper and deeper as the conflict widens....I also believe that Russia will prevail regardless and providing weapons will increase the death toll many fold while fortifying Russia's resolve to prevail at all costs...I also believe that by getting involved we increase the likelihood of Russia assisting groups we oppose.   

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2930 on: March 26, 2015, 10:50:56 AM »



In other words your belief that appeasing Russia to avoid conflict now will ensure your worst fears and concerns - direct conflict with the west/NATO  - becomes unavoidable within a few years.

Brass
If I thought war was inevitable I'd probably agree with you..but I don't tthink that is the case...I also don't view what we have already done as appeasing...when we were involved in foreign wars I didn't view Russia's inaction as appeasement.

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #2931 on: March 26, 2015, 11:14:07 AM »
If I thought war was inevitable I'd probably agree with you..but I don't tthink that is the case...I also don't view what we have already done as appeasing...when we were involved in foreign wars I didn't view Russia's inaction as appeasement.

You're blurring my wording/meaning when you suggest I'm referring to the US administration's dithering as appeasing Russia. What I consider the US administration guilty of is a failure to take the appropriate action and leadership in the face of an increasingly belligerent aggressor nation edit to add: which is enabling Russia's aggression.

I was addressing your comments and opinions in several posts as to how to deal with Putin/Russia's aggression as appeasement. Two different lines of thought.

Brass
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 11:16:24 AM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

lordtiberius

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« Reply #2932 on: March 26, 2015, 12:41:24 PM »
This post neither addresses my comments or answers my questions.


Brass

And you are surprised?

Offline cc3

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« Reply #2933 on: March 26, 2015, 01:04:35 PM »
If I thought war was inevitable I'd probably agree with you..but I don't tthink that is the case...I also don't view what we have already done as appeasing...when we were involved in foreign wars I didn't view Russia's inaction as appeasement.

Fathertime!

"If I thought war was inevitable..."

News bulletin, FT/Neville: I live in Ukraine and am here to tell you the country has been at war for nearly a year (excluding the resistance-less invasion of Krym). I live a few blocks from Lviv's military hospital treating war-wounded. Amputees and other disabled survivors are visible throughout the local streets.

Providing defensive weapons to Ukrainians defending their nation from fascist aggression "...will increase the death toll many fold..." of invading Russians. That would be a good thing; enough losses in this unwarranted war persecuted on Ukrainian soil by a tyrannical Muscovite despot will provide incentive for strategic retreat by the power that is increasingly despised by the rest of the world ( with the exception of such enlightened, civilized nations as North Korea, Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba, and Syria).

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #2934 on: March 26, 2015, 01:06:04 PM »
Putin calls on FSB to stop Russian militants returning from ‘hot spots’


Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered the Federal Security Service to prevent attempts by Russian-born militants from "hot spots" to get back into Russia "and especially into Crimea."

Putin was speaking on Thursday at the board meeting of the Federal Security Service of Russia. The full text of his speech has been published on the official Web site of the Russian president.

"Immigrants from Russia and other CIS countries are being trained in a number of hot spots, including in the ranks of the so-called Islamic state in Syria and other countries, and they may be exploited against us, against Russia and our neighbors" Putin said, as quoted by newspaper Krym.Realiyi.

"It is important to take additional measures to eliminate the global connections and resource base of terrorists, cut off their channels of entry and exit from Russia, prevent them from moving across regions, namely - to penetrate into the new Russian administrative areas - Crimea and Sevastopol," the Russian president said.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1060352-putin-calls-on-fsb-to-stop-russian-militants-returning-from-hot-spots.html

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2935 on: March 26, 2015, 01:07:55 PM »
And you are surprised?

LOL!
Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2936 on: March 26, 2015, 01:13:22 PM »
You're blurring my wording/meaning when you suggest I'm referring to the US administration's dithering as appeasing Russia. What I consider the US administration guilty of is a failure to take the appropriate action and leadership in the face of an increasingly belligerent aggressor nation edit to add: which is enabling Russia's aggression.

I was addressing your comments and opinions in several posts as to how to deal with Putin/Russia's aggression as appeasement. Two different lines of thought.

Brass
There is a new paradigm...Hitler didn't have 1000s of nukes....we can afford to negotiate, given the potential for calamity. 

It could also be that Obama has decided Ukraine isn't worth the lives and/or potential far ranging consequences it may well entail.

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2937 on: March 26, 2015, 01:21:06 PM »
"If I thought war was inevitable..."

News bulletin, FT/Neville: I live in Ukraine and am here to tell you the country has been at war for nearly a year (excluding the resistance-less invasion of Krym). I live a few blocks from Lviv's military hospital treating war-wounded. Amputees and other disabled survivors are visible throughout the local streets.


Was referring to a war between NATO/RUSSIA or US/RUSSIA...those wars are not inevitable in my opinion.

Fathertime!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 01:51:34 PM by fathertime »
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #2938 on: March 26, 2015, 01:23:00 PM »
Even though Putin ordered price controls on vodka, things be getting pretty bad;

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-heavy-drinkers-turn-moonshine-113329143.html

Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
Moonshine, bath cleaner: Russia's heavy drinkers seek cheap but dangerous highs amid crisis
Associated Press By James Ellingworth, Associated Press
March 25, 2015 11:34 AM

 Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
.
View photo
In this photo taken on Tuesday, March 24, 2015, Alexander Polikarpov, the head doctor of the Alcospas chain of alcohol rehab clinics in Moscow poses for a photo after his interview with the Associated Press in Moscow, Russia. As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products. (AP Photo/Pavel Golovkin)

MOSCOW (AP) -- As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products.

Layoffs, wage cuts and price increases are combining to worsen the problem of alcoholism, which has long been a major public health issue, by increasing the mix of dangerous products in the market. Those who can no longer afford store-bought drinks are turning to "under the counter" alternatives that can cause serious damage, even death.


Offline AkMike

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« Reply #2939 on: March 26, 2015, 01:43:27 PM »

lordtiberius

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« Reply #2940 on: March 26, 2015, 02:28:44 PM »
Even though Putin ordered price controls on vodka, things be getting pretty bad;

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-heavy-drinkers-turn-moonshine-113329143.html

Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
Moonshine, bath cleaner: Russia's heavy drinkers seek cheap but dangerous highs amid crisis
Associated Press By James Ellingworth, Associated Press
March 25, 2015 11:34 AM

 Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
.
View photo
In this photo taken on Tuesday, March 24, 2015, Alexander Polikarpov, the head doctor of the Alcospas chain of alcohol rehab clinics in Moscow poses for a photo after his interview with the Associated Press in Moscow, Russia. As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products. (AP Photo/Pavel Golovkin)

MOSCOW (AP) -- As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products.

Layoffs, wage cuts and price increases are combining to worsen the problem of alcoholism, which has long been a major public health issue, by increasing the mix of dangerous products in the market. Those who can no longer afford store-bought drinks are turning to "under the counter" alternatives that can cause serious damage, even death.

Ah yes, the other Russia

lordtiberius

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« Reply #2941 on: March 26, 2015, 02:39:55 PM »
Russian Government Struggles to Check Surging Cost of Medicine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-government-struggles-to-check-surging-cost-of-medicine/518109.html

Russian Companies Profits Turn Negative for First Time Since 2009 Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-company-profits-turn-negative-for-first-time-since-2009-crisis/518108.html

Russia's Largest Bank Sberbank Reports 20 Percent Profit Drop in 2014
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-largest-bank-sberbank-reports-20-percent-profit-drop-in-2014/518065.html

Soviet-Era 'Objective Truth' Bill Would Imperil Presumption of Innocence
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/soviet-era-objective-truth-bill-would-imperil-presumption-of-innocence/518107.html

Russia Offers $177 Million to Support Sanctions-Hit Rosselkhozbank
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-offers-177-million-to-support-sanctions-hit-rosselkhozbank/518084.html

Austria's Raiffeisen Bank to Close 15 Russian Branches
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/austrias-raiffeisen-bank-to-close-15-russian-branches/518038.html

Russian Railways Seeks $8 Billion in State Subsidies
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-railways-seeks-8-billion-in-state-subsidies/518020.html

Fraudulent Loan Applications in Russia Soar Amid Economic Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fraudulent-loan-applications-in-russia-soar-amid-economic-crisis/517984.html

Sanctions have no effect on policy? 

Offline msmobyone

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« Reply #2942 on: March 27, 2015, 04:14:47 AM »
No way do I support Putin's military opportunism in Crimea. It will destabilise the world for years to come. His actions are hugely popular in Russia and the perception there is that 'evil ' America removed Yanu' in Ukraine :D

I am not naive enough to realise that we hoped for a regime change  - in the same way Russians don't care that the Kremlin's clumsy attempts to push Yanu' in the correct direction brought about his demise.

Neither 'agenda' has worked out and Putin knows how far he can push and postures for a nation seeking a 'respect' it felt it had lost.

When I listen to him tell his people that 'he had to act' in Crimea as the people there had a right to self-determination I'm wondering about the Chechens who sought the same and ethnic Russians were only 20 percent before the wars and are now a 'massive'  2 percent.

I don't perceive any weakening of resolve from the average Russian, yet. Putin's media machine - with help from his Oligarch mates - is effective.

With whom would we wage war... Putin and his cronies or the average Joe in the street.



 

« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 06:24:44 AM by msmobyone »
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

lordtiberius

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« Reply #2943 on: March 27, 2015, 04:51:07 AM »
 : :clapping:

Good post

Offline sleepycat

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« Reply #2944 on: March 30, 2015, 03:27:49 AM »
Smart move by midget Putin to anger the Saudi regime, a country that can really sodomize Russia by driving the oil price even lower.
 :cluebat:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/saudi-arabia-slams-putin-over-support-for-syrias-assad/518203.html

lordtiberius

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« Reply #2945 on: March 30, 2015, 04:48:02 AM »
A Novorossiya supporter on Twitter once told me that Russia's hatred of Tatars is strange.  If you scratch below the surface of any Russian, you will find a Tatar in it.

Offline Gator

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« Reply #2946 on: March 30, 2015, 10:03:32 AM »
Some have the opinion that the tide has turned, and now is the time to invest in Russian stocks and bonds.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/investing/russia-markets-time-to-buy/index.html?iid=HP_LN

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #2947 on: March 30, 2015, 11:34:56 AM »
And yet others at the same site say totally opposite.

Russia's economic misery deepens.
It's all going downhill for Russia, again.

Russia's central bank cut interest rates by 1% to 14% on Friday, highlighting the dire state of the country's economy.
The bank also slashed its growth forecast. It expects the Russian economy to contract by between 3.5% and 4% in 2015, worse than its January prediction of 3%.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/13/news/economy/russia-central-bank/?iid=EL

Offline JayH

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« Reply #2948 on: March 30, 2015, 03:34:31 PM »
Some have the opinion that the tide has turned, and now is the time to invest in Russian stocks and bonds.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/investing/russia-markets-time-to-buy/index.html?iid=HP_LN

That would be another Kremlin line being promoted to everyday Russians telling them how good they have got it !!

Meanwhile-- the noose is getting tighter !
Spanish authorities froze the bank accounts of hundreds of Russians
In Spain, the accounts of Russian citizens were subjected to freezing due to lack of explanation about the origin of money.

By strengthening the country's authorities to combat the laundering of criminally acquired funds control measures affected not only Italians, but also permanent resident aliens expensive property owners and solid bank accounts, reports Deutsche Welle .

According to the newspaper, all sanctions were subjected to several hundred immigrants from the former Soviet Union.

Because these people do not react to the requirement to provide a certificate of origin of their capital within three months, their accounts frozen. In addition, under the new law, foreigners are required to fill in an annual declaration of presence outside Spain property - real estate and bank assets totaling more than $ 50 thousand.

http://nv.ua/world/countries/vlasti-ispanii-zamorozili-bankovskie-scheta-soten-rossiyan-41474.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline calmissile

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« Reply #2949 on: March 30, 2015, 09:00:08 PM »
So now the Russian's can be pissed at Spain also?
Doug (Calmissile)

 

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