Advice from guys who have been there

[Patagonie]

If I were in your shoes, Sender, I would end it NOW. I would have a conversation immediately, give her money to buy ticket back home plus a bit more to get back on her legs and wish her well. Do not compromise and do not ask her to compromise on whatever made her to become disenchanted. It is not worth it.

Try to hire a russian official translator (not someone you know) when it will be time to have the final discussion. that's more respectful for the lady, she will feel more comfortable, and it will protect you better.
I would even hire her till the departure of the plane.

This idea of better communication from vwrw is nice.

[2tallbill]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.  I don't think any of these things matter.  I think what is important is that your values align roughly.  They don't have to be identical, but the big picture items on what is important to you in life need to align, more or less.

Of course they matter, but how do you know if your values align if you don't spend
the effort finding out. There have been many men here on this forum who had
serious conflicts because they didn't spend the time finding out that their wife
wanted to coddle her spoiled teenage son and wanted zero nonmonetary input
from her new husband.

You could accurately argue that those two people didn't have values that align
but they could have found out if they would have had the conversation.

[Patagonie]

OP: for the future newbies :
How many days have you spent with her?
Have you met her family?
How much time have you spent communicating on internet?
How many girls have you bedded till this one?
How many girls of FSU have you met previously this one ? (first slavic lady?)
Involvment with the culture?  (speaking russian, knowing the geography, the history ???)
Do you live IN a big city? (look like yes)
Children? (could have made her fleeing)

Feel free to not answer my questions if you don't feel comfortable with it.

Don't try to harm you, just try to understand what you have missed first during the dating time. And make the experience profitable for newbies.

[Boethius]

Of course they matter, but how do you know if your values align if you don't spend
the effort finding out. There have been many men here on this forum who had
serious conflicts because they didn't spend the time finding out that their wife
wanted to coddle her spoiled teenage son and wanted zero nonmonetary input
from her new husband.

You could accurately argue that those two people didn't have values that align
but they could have found out if they would have had the conversation.

The woman with a teen aged son may initially believe she wants her future husband's input, but that changes when he provides it.  She may not believe she is coddling her child.

I think it's more the "big picture" stuff, and even that matters less and less as one gets older.

[Boethius]

I doubt that it was things that she knew about him, such as his age, that turned her off. Most likely it was new things that she discovered about him by being introduced to his environment that turned her off.   

I didn't mean that his age turned her off, but rather, that she never had strong feelings for him, and a new environment exacerbated that.

[jone]

Right, 

I have met many Eastern European women who think that they want to live in the US.  But in reality, they really don't know what they want.  Very few women are available who actually fit the profile that they project online or even in the first number of interactions.  For many, there is a reason they are single. 

And, OTOH, coming to the US for the first time, and your future husband says he is a business man when he really is a clerk at a 7/11 can be the death knell before leaving the starting gate.

The discussions that Bill talks about are probably necessary before that woman gets on that plane. Expectations are set and when not met become reason for disaster.  Better to have a handle on them before commitment.

[JayH]

Right, 

I have met many Eastern European women who think that they want to live in the US.  But in reality, they really don't know what they want. 
And, OTOH, coming to the US for the first time, and your future husband says he is a business man when he really is a clerk at a 7/11 can be the death knell before leaving the starting gate.
. Expectations are set and when not met become reason for disaster. Better to have a handle on them before commitment.

Bothius questions at the start of the thread  -- and the key points in the quote above  -- are of particular note.Those type of questions are critical to understanding potential actions-- of all concerned.

Bothius has commented previously on the "love" issue itself -- and unless there is overwhelming love affair happening--then the practical issues will create a large part of a relationship succeeding.
 
As Mrs VRMW points out -- it can be extremely difficult adjustment in the early days ( that point has been made by quite a few FSUW here on the forum) and on never to be underestimated.

The point Jon makes of meeting expectations is really important.
There is a compelling case to have a girl visit and spend some time in a guys world --  for her to be in the best place to make a long term decision.
A few years back  -- I investigated quite a few guys for girls in Ukraine. It started through people I knew telling me about online meetings and subsequent "relationships" developing,and in listening hearing things that did not seem "right" to me.Subsequently I did checks on   quite a few -- and found  90% of guys unsuitable for reasons from already being married !!   -- to simply having told huge lies about circumstances .  In some cases-- my advice was not well received!! My comment to girls was this-- ok --if you think I am wrong -- go and see for yourself before committing.

In those comments -- guys come here complaining about scamming ,girls generally etc -- without understanding how difficult it is for a genuine girl to find a suitable guy. In the past -there may have been an element of "escaping" that was a strong motivation -- and that "it could not be worse" in the thinking of a FSU girl looking to the west , by and large, despite many difficulties and hardships for many-- that no longer applies as a major factor. ( as per the op's girls comments on a few specifics)

More info from the OP can only help get better "advice".

[JohnDearGreen]

It's been exactly one week since she has arrived.  During that time, she has gotten even more quiet towards me, barely talking to me.

Doesn't sound very good...
Since there are many Russian women in your city, perhaps you could "hire" one lady to "research" the situation for you.  Have her somehow accidently on purpose  meet up with your lady, become friends with her, and find out what she it thinking, etc... and then report back to you with the info.    A spy.

[Sender]

Well guys, I did it.
 
My own personal timetable would have been to wait until the weekend of the 20th, and then after the initial response on this thread, I thought about bumping it up to the 17th.
 
However, given the extreme reaction by most of you, I ended things yesterday.  I waited until she came back in the evening from meeting her new Russian friends.  I did so because I didn’t feel like it would benefit anyone having the discussion beforehand, and then having her meeting her new Russian friends all charged up about breaking off the engagement.  Additionally, I would like to try to do this whole thing with as much dignity and humanity as possible, so I did genuinely want her to have a good time – I didn’t want to ruin that.
 
Anyway, I told her I thought we should end the engagement.  She just shrugged and casually said, “Sure, if you want to.”  That was at around 10 p.m.  I went to bed shortly afterwards while she went to another room to talk to her friends on the phone – I heard her laughing a few times whilst talking.  Maybe they were trying to cheer her up?  I was surprised at how calm and collected the whole thing was.  I had gotten her a new iPhone that I had added to my cell phone plan and have just started paying off.  She said it was too expensive and she would leave it behind; she would use her old phone from Russia.
 
I woke up at 1:30 a.m. to the hysterics, to her crying and storming into the bedroom to grab all her things to shove into a suitcase.  She did go into a rant about that old Russian chestnut of A Real Man™, about how A Real Man™ would have kept asking her what was wrong, even if she said she didn’t want to talk about it or even if she said it was because she was dealing with culture shock.  A Real Man™ would have kept asking until getting a better answer.  And now she wanted money and she would also be keeping the phone.
 
I told her I could get her some money if I could keep the iPhone and sell it to recoup the cost – it’s around $800.  She said nevermind the money, then, she would keep the phone.
 
At 10 p.m., when I broke things off, I said that I could drive her to the airport tomorrow (which is 20 minutes away) and get her a good flight back to Moscow.  She said she still wanted to see some of California, and that she would move out and stay at a hostel.  Okay.  I mean, it’s not like I could physically drag her to the airport, and also, I don’t begrudge her with wanting to see some more of the state, as this may possibly be the only time in her life she does.
 
So today, she’s leaving my place.  Although I was a bit torn about it, I ended up going to work and leaving her alone there – I wasn’t sure if that was the best option, but I figured if I was at work, I would have an alibi and be able to show where I was and what I was doing.  Oh, and yes, I did record my initial break up at 10 p.m. and then a small portion of the discussion at 1:30 a.m.
 
So that’s where I’m at now.  And of course I’m feeling crappy, as one might expect to after all this.  It still isn’t completely over, obviously, but that’s where things stand for now.

[jone]

Well guys, I did it.
 
My own personal timetable would have been to wait until the weekend of the 20th, and then after the initial response on this thread, I thought about bumping it up to the 17th.
 
However, given the extreme reaction by most of you, I ended things yesterday.  I waited until she came back in the evening from meeting her new Russian friends.  I did so because I didn’t feel like it would benefit anyone having the discussion beforehand, and then having her meeting her new Russian friends all charged up about breaking off the engagement.  Additionally, I would like to try to do this whole thing with as much dignity and humanity as possible, so I did genuinely want her to have a good time – I didn’t want to ruin that.
 
Anyway, I told her I thought we should end the engagement.  She just shrugged and casually said, “Sure, if you want to.”  That was at around 10 p.m.  I went to bed shortly afterwards while she went to another room to talk to her friends on the phone – I had her laughing a few times whilst talking.  Maybe they were trying to cheer her up?  I was surprised at how calm and collected the whole thing was.  I had gotten her a new iPhone that I had added to my cell phone plan and have just started paying off.  She said it was too expensive and she would leave it behind; she would use her old phone from Russia.
 
I woke up at 1:30 a.m. to the hysterics, to her crying and storming into the bedroom to grab all her things to shove into a suitcase.  She did go into a rant about that old Russian chestnut of A Real Man™, about how A Real Man™ would have kept asking her what was wrong, even if she said she didn’t want to talk about it or even if she said it was because she was dealing with culture shock.  A Real Man™ would have kept asking until getting a better answer.  And now she wanted money and she would also be keeping the phone.
 
I told her I could get her some money if I could keep the iPhone and sell it to recoup the cost – it’s around $800.  She said nevermind the money, then, she would keep the phone.
 
At 10 p.m., when I broke things off, I said that I could drive her to the airport tomorrow (which is 20 minutes away) and get her a good flight back to Moscow.  She said she still wanted to see some of California, and that she would move out and stay at a hostel.  Okay.  I mean, it’s not like I could physically drag her to the airport, and also, I don’t begrudge her with wanting to see some more of the state, as this may possibly be the only time in her life she does.
 
So today, she’s leaving my place.  Although I was a bit torn about it, I ended up going to work and leaving her alone there – I wasn’t sure if that was the best option, but I figured if I was at work, I would have an alibi and be able to show where I was and what I was doing.  Oh, and yes, I did record my initial break up at 10 p.m. and then a small portion of the discussion at 1:30 a.m.
 
So that’s where I’m at now.  And of course I’m feeling crappy, as one might expect to after all this.  It still isn’t completely over, obviously, but that’s where things stand for now.

A little pain now vs. a lot of pain later. 

That little chestnut she threw at you about a real man would have kept asking what was wrong was totally unfair.  She knows how to behave.  She just chose not to.  Your direct and decisive action concluded the relationship in a fair and positive manor. 

For someone who put her life on the line, she sure acted stupidly. 

[LAman]

A little pain now vs. a lot of pain later. 

That little chestnut she threw at you about a real man would have kept asking what was wrong was totally unfair.  She knows how to behave.  She just chose not to.  Your direct and decisive action concluded the relationship in a fair and positive manor. 

For someone who put her life on the line, she sure acted stupidly.

"Concluded the relationship"????  It could very well get nasty and tenuous...... depending on who is inside this girl's ears.

[Hammer2722]

I would not be surprised if she prolongs her stay at the hotel till she finds someone else to shack up with. Then she will bail on you. Remember that you are on the hook for her financially until she leaves. The sooner the better. Why does she need to see California some more? Was this nothing more than a paid vacation for her?

Let her keep the I-phone and you should give her some money when she goes back. It is the very least you can do for her regardless of her sincerity.....

[ML]

"Concluded the relationship"????  It could very well get nasty and tenuous...... depending on who is inside this girl's ears.

True that.

[jone]

Too True, LA Man,

If it were me, I would have taken the time off from work to see her established in a location away from home immediately.   Hopefully there will not be scene when he comes home from work today.

Was watching the movie 'Delivery Man' the other night.  I found it funny because the main character in the movie was being advised by his friend.  Apparently he had imported a woman from overseas to marry.  Once in the US, she hooked up with her husband who was already in the States.  In the movie, it was good for a laugh.  In reality, it was a situation that no one really can imagine.

[jone]

I would not be surprised if she prolongs her stay at the hotel till she finds someone else to shack up with. Then she will bail on you. Remember that you are on the hook for her financially until she leaves. The sooner the better. Why does she need to see California some more? Was this nothing more than a paid vacation for her?

Hammer,

I've always wondered what that term:  "Financially responsible" means.  Does it mean that she can romp around the States incurring debt in your name?  Access to your checkbook?  I think not.

Instead, I believe that if she hits someone with a car or winds up in the hospital without health care then you would be on the hook.  But beyond that, I would be interested if someone could explain the exposure.

[LAman]

Hammer,

I've always wondered what that term:  "Financially responsible" means.  Does it mean that she can romp around the States incurring debt in your name?  Access to your checkbook?  I think not.

Instead, I believe that if she hits someone with a car or winds up in the hospital without health care then you would be on the hook.  But beyond that, I would be interested if someone could explain the exposure.

The I-864, Affidavit of Support says sponsor is legally responsible for financially supporting the sponsored immigrant during the obligation duration........what does that entail?  Anything similar to your children where you are responsible till they are 18 for everything they do?

Heaven forbid any attorneys getting involved!!!! That measly iPhone and some money would look rather paltry to what could happen. One week down......11 to go......

[Hammer2722]

Hammer,

I've always wondered what that term:  "Financially responsible" means.  Does it mean that she can romp around the States incurring debt in your name?  Access to your checkbook?  I think not.

Instead, I believe that if she hits someone with a car or winds up in the hospital without health care then you would be on the hook.  But beyond that, I would be interested if someone could explain the exposure.

I agree with you, however it seems like she wants him to set her up in a hotel (which he will pay for). I say send her home right away. She came here to be his wife. Its obvious she really does not care about that but now she wants to turn this into a vacation at his expense? I say no way!!!!

[Sender]

Well, you guys are freaking out enough about the support affidavit that I decided to contact an immigration attorney (at cost – this wasn’t free advice).
 
Here is part of what the immigration attorney emailed to me after I described the situation.
 
“You are obligated to pay the government back for any means-tested public benefit that she applies for and uses. She most likely isn't going to qualify for anything, so just explain to her that she has to go back. Since you are not marrying her, you also would not be obligated for spousal support. She's in a bad position.”
 
(As an aside, means-tested public benefits are defined as: Federal agencies administering benefit programs have determined that Federal means-tested public benefits include Food Stamps, Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), and the State Child Health Insurance Program (SCHIP).)


EDIT:  I think you can disregard the info below this.
 
The attorney also sent me a link to this:
 
http://mypathtocitizenship.com/k1-visa-fiance-changed-mind-about-marriage/
 
I did find this portion interesting:
 
“If you are a victim of domestic violence, you have the option to file for VAWA (I-360). The USCIS has created a way for immigrants that are abused to self-petition for their own green card. The only requirement for filing for VAWA is that you had a bona fide marriage.

Unfortunately, if you did not marry the US petitioner, you will not qualify for VAWA even if you were abused”

[Hammer2722]

From what I recall, there have been cases where the petitioner was allowed to stay after a domestic violence was applied for even though she was never married. Tread carefully.......

[Sender]

Yeah, I'm seeing that that VAWA thing may be outdated. Ah well. Feel free to ignore that. I didn't even ask the attorney about that part, regardless.

[Sender]

I do feel like I should mention that while I feel guilty and crappy that my engagement ended up like this, I don’t hold any ill will towards my ex-fiancee.  I still do think she’s a good person.  And remember, everything here I’m saying is one-sided, coming from me only.
 
While I think I was a fool for trying international dating, I don’t begrudge her at all and genuinely wish her a good future.  I say all that because I don’t want to give the wrong impression about her or myself to you all – I don’t think she’s a bad person, and I don’t dislike her.  This engagement just didn’t work out, unfortunately.  I think it's so easy to get wrapped up in covering all the bases regarding liability that the human element can be overlooked. And that's what really matters in the end, after all.

[fathertime]

I do feel like I should mention that while I feel guilty and crappy that my engagement ended up like this, I don’t hold any ill will towards my ex-fiancee.  I still do think she’s a good person.  And remember, everything here I’m saying is one-sided, coming from me only.
 

I wouldn't worry about feeling guilty, assuming you are decent guy, she has really never given you a chance.   I'm glad you broke it off, and although she will be rewarded if he stays here now illegally, if you can detach from her entirely that would probably behoove you. 


All that BS she cried about you being a 'real man' is just to keep you on the line for further use down the road, nothing more.  She may not be done with you in that regard.  Personally, I'd try to find out how much it would take to get her out of the country.   I wouldn't like the playbook she is working from because you aren't going to see a good outcome in my opinion.


Fathertime! 

[Sender]

Just a quick update:

My ex-fiancee was still at my apartment by the time I got home from work, but she was just waiting for me to arrive before leaving.  She was all packed.

She asked for a plane ticket to fly to Moscow from San Francisco on Wednesday the 24th, so I bought that for her, and she walked out the door.

Obviously I think it was for the best, but there was still that slight bittersweet feeling I felt seeing her leave my life forever.  I don't think she was a bad person, so it's sad it had to end this way.

[wallm]

Hope that it was the last time you spoke to her. She is bad news. If anything she should have clung to you while you helped her acclimate, instead of not talking. Forget her. Good luck moving forward.

[BillyB]

While I think I was a fool for trying international dating,

The problem isn't that you tried international dating, the problem is how you evaluate women. You will still have this problem dating at home if you don't make some changes. Some men can't tell the sincere from the insincere women. Some men can't spot incompatibility issues. Those men get involved with the wrong women.

She asked for a plane ticket to fly to Moscow from San Francisco on Wednesday the 24th, so I bought that for her, and she walked out the door.

If she doesn't take that flight, she is punishing you by wasting your money. It will not be the last time she punishes you. Don't get a DV record. Make sure to change the locks on the door ASAP.

Hopefully she enjoys her vacation in America while going through culture shock.