To the Pearl of the Black Sea

[Nightwish]

Er, No, BillyB ... Please do not compare you idea of 'selling yourself' to mine...  Those ladies I wrote to - but did not visit - if they were emotionally stable - understood that writing / chatting was part of getting to know each other - to see if there was enough 'chemistry' to meet. 

Personally speaking, I have a low opinion of guys who BS about coming ...   I have on one occasion decided not to meet a lady at the last minute - having paid for her trip to meet me in Kyiv from SW Russia - she was 'mot pleased'  to say the least - but how she took my decision should have been clue enough to our unsuitability.

As AJ - so rightly put it ... the KB romeos on the paid for sites are a 'dream' to companies looking to make a pile from guys who like to fantasise

Those who write to ladies on free dating sites - also with no intention of ever taking it anywhere .... including for the purposes of the 'education of single guys'...well, they are saddoes in my eyes.. spoiling the chances of serious guys .

Your talking about those married and cheating sexual predators.. I agree fully with your opinion.. despicable men.

[JayH]

I'm a bit confused here....isn't BillyB the guy who went after a 17 year old? And now he's preaching about morals and saying girls like my Anya are "bad" women?

Billy, you realize than even in prison the "bad" men draw a line in the sand on that one, right?

Billy is an undersized runt  who displays all the little man syndrome traits and whose obnoxious  comments throughout  thread are just plain insulting and offensive. The degree of ignorance he and Trenchcoat exhibit is appalling.

[Trenchcoat]

You have never lived in a destroyed country with no safety net. Those women have to eat, and support themselves and possibly a family.

It's easy, coming from a well organized society, to judge them and impose your morality. But you're going to a poor country to exploit the economic disparity for your own advantage. So how are you any more honest or decent?

Well you do at least support my position then that Ukraine is a country with many poor people, something some on here earlier was disputing

What you say may be true Boethius but as BillyB said that's fine if they want to do that but he just chooses not to go to those that do agency work for a lifetime partner. In other words yes it may be a necessity in some cases but it often means the girl in the process may make herself no good, possibly they may be ones that still are - a matter for debate, but me as a guy wanting to find a life partner do I really want to waste time & money wading through a swamp of bad girls hoping to find the one good one or surround myself with good non-agency girls and increase my odds dramatically.

From my perspective the latter is likely to pay off better for me and as said earlier with an agency girl I would have no way of knowing if she was decent, just playing me or decent but might later fall back into old ways until way down the line, essentially too late. Why do I want to go into this with that added bother when I don't have to, like said its messing yourself up before you begin.

Its natural for you to want to defend Ukrainian girls, life can no doubt be harsh out there but life can get hard if time & money is spent getting with the wrong girl for the guy. After all guys don't ask girls to sh*t up there search but regularly they do even when the guy has made it evident that he is after a real relationship and family just for the girls own selfish ends.They seem to have no comprehension that, 'hey this guy is really looking for Miss Right and I'm selfishly taking up his limited time by getting in the way of that because I want to make a few bucks out of him' and these girls with hang onto a bloke not just for a bit but a long, long way. 

[Trenchcoat]

Er, No, BillyB ... Please do not compare you idea of 'selling yourself' to mine...  Those ladies I wrote to - but did not visit - if they were emotionally stable - understood that writing / chatting was part of getting to know each other - to see if there was enough 'chemistry' to meet. 

Personally speaking, I have a low opinion of guys who BS about coming ...   I have on one occasion decided not to meet a lady at the last minute - having paid for her trip to meet me in Kyiv from SW Russia - she was 'mot pleased'  to say the least - but how she took my decision should have been clue enough to our unsuitability.

As AJ - so rightly put it ... the KB romeos on the paid for sites are a 'dream' to companies looking to make a pile from guys who like to fantasise

Those who write to ladies on free dating sites - also with no intention of ever taking it anywhere .... including for the purposes of the 'education of single guys'...well, they are saddoes in my eyes.. spoiling the chances of serious guys .

I have a low opinion of guys that BS about making the journey and never do too Moby, they just have no balls and are full of BS totally unworthy.

I think Billy is making an important contribution here, he is showing us new starters and those a little into it but still no real experienced the type of woman to go for. I have turned up three that were despite their flaws honest enough in that they were no direct scammers. Its handy though fo someone like Billy that has really made it and married to a good Ukrainian girl to show us the sorts of girls & their qualities we should look for. I'm grateful for him taking the time out to do this.

[rw_recruiter]

Anyways, moving on in my adventures....

Last night Anya was too tired to head over to Arkadia. She was running errands all day and had to visit a sick Aunt. Seems all the trams and walking really zaps the energy from you.

We take a walk across the street in a large Park with paddleboats, and walkways. Families gather, children run around playing, and a violinist plays tunes. We run over to the store and grab a cake for tomorrow (Sat) for our meeting with babushka. Babushka would not let us bring food, but a cake would be acceptable we were told. Anya said her father would never buy caviar on his salary and that would be appreciated so we also pick up some cheap caviar at $7 or so.

We get home and end the night with a  foot massage, nice dinner, and good conversation.

I look at apartments on the building for fun. The smaller one bedroom units run around $80k USD. Two bedroom units with double the square meters double that.

[msmob]

Well you do at least support my position then that Ukraine is a country with many poor people, something some on here earlier was disputing

Selective reading, (AGAIN) Trench?  Specific examples of those doing better - who were in the company of our RW doesn't make Ukraine 'rich' - they ARE those who are extraordinary wealthy compared to most ...

I'd not be too quick to use BillyB's 'research' to back up your contentions ...

PS Edited code and an mindful or ruining RWs TR by responding to Trebch / BillyB - Could I suggest we chat about  our opinions in a new thread ?

[rw_recruiter]

Have been to the stores a few times. Mostly the newer upscale type supermarkets due to the location I am staying.

Certain imported food items are very expensive. Salmon, shrimp and so on.

Eggs are very cheap here, which is good a the make up a large part of my diet. The yolks are not as yellow as back in the US. When you scramble them, it is almost as if they were egg whites. "Farmers eggs, organic" says Anya.



Another item that is plentiful and dirt cheap are mushrooms. Of all varieties. I paid around $1 USD for a pound of oyster mushrooms the other day. In the US I think they run $8 a pound or so.



Milk is also cheap, but not processed like back home. It tastes excellent but does not store well.

[rw_recruiter]

Specific examples of those doing better - who were in the company of our RW doesn't make Ukraine 'rich' - they ARE those who are extraordinary wealthy compared to most ...

As we walked back from the upscale mall (corner of French Blvd and Shevchenka Ave?) we passed a cafe. Parked in front where 3 Porsche Cayenne's and a Lexus SUV. There are people with money here.

One of the devs I placed is about to lose his job. Poor management so not his fault, but he wants to move to the US from Zaporozhye. I think he may be making a poor decision since he makes 5k USD a month here in Ukraine. You will need to figure out who said what, sorry.

To live in the US like he lives here on 5k (and his wife works) I would guess he needs to make 20k a month? He is not that good a dev....

[rw_recruiter]

The more I explore the area, the more I fall in love with the location. It is as if we were in an apartment overlooking Central Park in NYC. We are surrounded by things to do, but with more green areas, and the Black Sea. All for a fraction of the cost. The Sea is just to the right of the green zone on the right hand side. The green zone runs the length of the coast and has a jogging/bike path.

[Nightwish]

Well you do at least support my position then that Ukraine is a country with many poor people, something some on here earlier was disputing

What you say may be true Boethius but as BillyB said that's fine if they want to do that but he just chooses not to go to those that do agency work for a lifetime partner. In other words yes it may be a necessity in some cases but it often means the girl in the process may make herself no good, possibly they may be ones that still are - a matter for debate, but me as a guy wanting to find a life partner do I really want to waste time & money wading through a swamp of bad girls hoping to find the one good one or surround myself with good non-agency girls and increase my odds dramatically.

From my perspective the latter is likely to pay off better for me and as said earlier with an agency girl I would have no way of knowing if she was decent, just playing me or decent but might later fall back into old ways until way down the line, essentially too late. Why do I want to go into this with that added bother when I don't have to, like said its messing yourself up before you begin.

Its natural for you to want to defend Ukrainian girls, life can no doubt be harsh out there but life can get hard if time & money is spent getting with the wrong girl for the guy. After all guys don't ask girls to sh*t up there search but regularly they do even when the guy has made it evident that he is after a real relationship and family just for the girls own selfish ends.They seem to have no comprehension that, 'hey this guy is really looking for Miss Right and I'm selfishly taking up his limited time by getting in the way of that because I want to make a few bucks out of him' and these girls with hang onto a bloke not just for a bit but a long, long way.

No one is disputing that, but your condescending, degrading way of describing the people and the country is just as despicable as Billy hooking up with teenagers..  you are both belonging to the bottom feeders in this.

[rw_recruiter]

You will notice many sanatoriums along French Blvd and the coast. As we walked past a few last week I misunderstood that they were for the mentally ill (sanitarium or asylum). I was curious as to why there were so many places for the mentally ill during the era of the Soviet Union.

Anya explained to me that they were health retreats or for those with tuberculosis to recuperate by the Sea. It was thought the Sea air helped those with TB. If you worked in a factory you could also receive a pass for a certain number of days to go relax at the sanatorium during your break. Many are large buildings with high walled compounds and wonderful architecture.

[wallm]

As we walked back from the upscale mall (corner of French Blvd and Shevchenka Ave?) we passed a cafe. Parked in front where 3 Porsche Cayenne's and a Lexus SUV. There are people with money here.

One of the devs I placed is about to lose his job. Poor management so not his fault, but he wants to move to the US from Zaporozhye. I think he may be making a poor decision since he makes 5k USD a month here in Ukraine. You will need to figure out who said what, sorry.

To live in the US like he lives here on 5k (and his wife works) I would guess he needs to make 20k a month? He is not that good a dev....

There were people driving Porsches and Bentleys in Zaporozhye....on roads that are like obstacle courses to avoid the pot holes. I was told they are either business men or corrupt politicians.

So, bring another H1B in? I never look at resumes of H1Bs and will never hire one. I did hear in general Ukrainians in IT are sharp.

Nice trip report by the way.

[BillyB]

I'm a bit confused here....isn't BillyB the guy who went after a 17 year old? And now he's preaching about morals and saying girls like my Anya are "bad" women?

Billy, you realize than even in prison the "bad" men draw a line in the sand on that one, right?

There's nobody on this forum who dated more older women than I have. I don't discriminate on age. I don't read women's profiles so I write to women 17 and up depending on if they are beautiful in my eyes. A person is considered an adult at the age of 17 in the FSU and in some places list themselves on dating sites. Your government gave me and my wife permission to marry. Half my employees have been in jail at one or more times in their life and they are think our marriage is wonderful. Family and friends on both sides of the fence are happy. You went after a 21 yo girl having a 26 year age gap with you and I never said that is immoral. Other people here would and some in FSU society find it disgusting but most there can accept it as long as the two in a relationship can accept it. Yes, I've been discussing morals here and a man with morals is a very attractive men to a lot of women no matter what her age.


I think there are a few FSU women reading this thread and shaking their heads that they live in a country so full of corruption yet have enough integrity to live their lives the right way and men here are considering getting into relationships with women who have questionable pasts blaming their culture for the way they've behaved.

[BdHvA]

Yes, I've been discussing morals here and a man with morals is a very attractive men to a lot of women no matter what her age.

I think there are a few FSU women reading this thread and shaking their heads that they live in a country so full of corruption yet have enough integrity to live their lives the right way and men here are considering getting into relationships with women who have questionable pasts blaming their culture for the way they've behaved.

My guess more than one woman after reading some of the comments on this trip report are considering either a monastery or perhaps a lesbian relationship.

As for morals some posters on this thread would not understand the difference between a set of beliefs and ethical behavior (morals) to live by and used female sanitary products.

[2tallbill]

I look at apartments on the building for fun. The smaller one bedroom units run around $80k USD. Two bedroom units with double the square meters double that.

That might be the rich foreigner price. If you were to get serious, I would advise getting
local help. Might save you a few shekels.

[rw_recruiter]

That might be the rich foreigner price. If you were to get serious, I would advise getting
local help. Might save you a few shekels.

Anya looked up it on a local site in Russian. It is a more high end building, but yes on the English speaking sites prices are much more. It is for shits and giggles at this point.

So, bring another H1B in? I never look at resumes of H1Bs and will never hire one. I did hear in general Ukrainians in IT are sharp.

Nice trip report by the way.

It will be a qualified Ukrainian or an unqualified Indian. Which route do I go?   

Spasibo.

[rw_recruiter]

Anya spends the day getting dolled up. She spends hours on hair and nails to look good for me. All the women here have outstanding hair. That is one of the reasons they appear so much better looking than the women in the West. A hair appointment in a salon in Boca would run $500 or more. She arrives looking like a million bucks.



Notice she is wearing an American style shirt. It is the latest style in Odessa. American flags on clothing....

[rw_recruiter]

Anya arrives after her day running around and we head off to the new Biopark. It is indeed right across the street from her fathers house. We drop off the cake and walk across the highway. It was built on an old airport and boasts the countries only safari. 150 Hrivnas per person to enter and it is small but brand new with nice animal enclosures. I do not normally like to see caged animals, but they put some effort into the habitats.

[msmob]

Notice she is wearing an American style shirt. It is the latest style in Odessa. American flags on clothing....

Bizarre as it may seem wearing US or United Kingdom flags on t-shirts / bikinis is hi-fashion in Russia, too ))   

[rw_recruiter]

Bizarre as it may seem wearing US or United Kingdom flags on t-shirts / bikinis is hi-fashion in Russia, too ))

Go figure, and I thought they were messing with me at the party 

[rw_recruiter]

We are now out in the suburbs of Odessa by the new Biopark. Homes are set back from the highway with an easement and a lane separating them from the busy road. Homes are varied in age, old ones being replaced by much larger new ones. A good mix of different styles, and conditions. All single family detached units. The yards are decent size and many have claimed the easement as additional gardening space.



Notice the BMW tucked away in the poor neighborhood.

Many homes slowly work on renovations. Adding a few new windows each year, a food cellar, or a new roof like Anya's father just did.

[rw_recruiter]

In addition to many other fruits and vegetables Anya's father and babushka grow grapes. They have 4-5 different cherry trees, a peach tree, potatoes, squashes, carrots, dill, tomatoes, and quite a few others, but grapes take up the majority of the yard.

The fences are covered in vines. An arbor entry boasts numerous varieties in different stages. It is a micro vineyard. He grows at least ten species of grapes. Large glass containers of the elixir ferment down in the root cellar.

Lidia, White Lidia, Lidia Hybrids, Lady Fingers, Moldovan, Thousand Grapes, Isabella and so on.





The clusters are dense and heavy. Supposedly it was not a great year, but I fail to see how. Certain varieties are used for the color and bouquet, others more kompot, or just as a novelty. The Moldovan vines are young at about a year or two and he is excited about them.

[rw_recruiter]

After a tour of the gardens and impressive work in the yard we sit down to eat under a natural canopy of thick fruit outdoors. The meal is served and babushka force feeds us non stop. Vodka toasts, home made wine, and kompot serve as intermezzo.



We eat and laugh and toast the night away. After cake is served we watch a few family videos on Anya's fathers laptop. Great time with her family, and Anya and I return home stuffed from too much food and happy.

[rw_recruiter]

A person is considered an adult at the age of 17 in the FSU and in some places list themselves on dating sites.

This past week when we met at the beach I was told a story. They had a 16 or 17 year old girl at the agency. She was VERY popular, loved to interact and could juggle multiple chats at a time. Marina was her name. This broke the terms with the main site as all women had to be at least 18 years old. So they falsified her documents.

Marina was so good that the agency owner wanted to take a second full set of photos and add her as a twin. Two Marinas basically, just add more forged docs and from a marketing gimmick essentially double or even x times the income one girl was generating.

[jone]

And you did not ask for her profile ID so we could all judge for ourselves?