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Author Topic: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?  (Read 451014 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1000 on: April 24, 2014, 11:05:33 AM »
So, where's the meathead that augured a win-win for Ukraine since Russia will never invade?
 
Probably taking his massive head out of his ass for all I care.
 
Ready to Rumble??
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1001 on: April 24, 2014, 11:59:03 AM »
It sounds like your family and friends have it figured out pretty well.  As far as the former corrupt government of Ukraine, we all need to wait and see how the newly elected government does once in office.

I personally know that since Maiden, the judiciary and lower level government employees have almost completely stopped the graft that was present in every day life previously.  Perhaps the messages got filtered down that the new government is serious about graft and corruption.

The interim government has only been in place a very short time.  I think we should give them and the newly elected government some time to clean things up before we are too critical or keep blaming the past as though it will not change.  Time will tell.

Yes, Russia is the enemy of Ukraine and it needs to be dealt with first.


How do you personally know that all government employees stopped the bribes? 

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1002 on: April 24, 2014, 12:02:04 PM »

Anotherkiwi, I've cut and past article 105 below. The language is clear. According to the first sentence Yanukovych lost his immunity when he was ousted from the office he held. The last sentence means Yanukovych can keep his "title" for life unless he was impeached. Title simply goes in front of his name when addressing him, doesn't mean he keeps the job and the immunity for life. If he ever comes back to Ukraine, he will be tried, impeached, and imprisoned and no Ukrainian will ever be obligated to address him as President again as he sits behind bars.


Why would they start impeachment proceedings if he was already legally removed from office? 

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1003 on: April 24, 2014, 12:05:34 PM »
Quote

The utter disconnect between America's diplomatic prnciples and practice has become so great that it is enbvoldening the country's adversaries. This is why, following Russia's seizure and annexation of Crimea, Putin is now trying to mold Ukraiune's eastern provinces into vassal regions, if not foment irredentism, in order to realize his dream of reconstruction the Russian Empire.
 
But it is not only America's rivals that are taking notice of Obama's passivity. The United States allies are also watching nervously, and the conclusions they appear to be drawing could harm its national security interests severely in the years and decades to come.
 

The lone actor most responsible for threatening world peace might unwittingly be US President Barack Obama
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1004 on: April 24, 2014, 12:13:50 PM »
To follow Muzh's lead...

WESTERN SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA IS WORKING! EUROPEANS HAVE DONE IT AGAIN!


I believe Royal Dutch/Shell Oil is owned by (60%) Netherlands and (40%) Brits!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 12:16:46 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1005 on: April 24, 2014, 12:39:07 PM »
To follow Muzh's lead...

WESTERN SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA IS WORKING! EUROPEANS HAVE DONE IT AGAIN!


I believe Royal Dutch/Shell Oil is owned by (60%) Netherlands and (40%) Brits!

LMFAO
 
Isn't that sweet?
 
That's why Putler is going to walk into Ukraine and disappear it from the map.
 
Semblances of Europe circa 1930s.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1006 on: April 24, 2014, 01:16:07 PM »

LMFAO
 
Isn't that sweet?
 
That's why Putler is going to walk into Ukraine and disappear it from the map.
 
Semblances of Europe circa 1930s.

I'm not exactly sure how this sell-out silliness actually works because the UK and the Netherlands are EU members. I pegged this entire posturing from the beginning as a major USA sell-out all over again considering the divisions amongst Europeans themselves on how much the sanction business, or Russia's punishment, equate to their respective economies.

The US is getting 'stooged' again. What's worst is, our soldiers are being sent stupidly into this conflict. Victoria Nuland was right in her vocal appreciation of the EU. I hope we can find a way to switch hit and cozy up with the BRICS before this is all too late.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:24:39 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1007 on: April 24, 2014, 01:51:20 PM »
Why would they start impeachment proceedings if he was already legally removed from office?

Guys (all who debate about impeachment, proceedings, constitution and law), it isn't really matter anymore. Neither of the things you debate about started conflict with Russia. Russia started annexation of Crimea while Yanukovych was still a president.
http://ru.krymr.com/content/article/25359933.html

Offline missAmeno

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Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1009 on: April 24, 2014, 02:43:16 PM »
And on Ukrainian border everything raises to a new level.

Terrorists occupied in Slavyansk schools and kindergartens
http://freejournal.biz/article3895/index.html

while Ukrainian airspace violated three Russian military helicopters and Russian troops in the line of sight from the border
http://freejournal.biz/article3896/index.html

in response to which Ukraine put forward in the area of direct impact long-range multiple rocket launchers
http://freejournal.biz/article3899/index.html

all while terrorists who communicate with each other through special connection, console themselves by the approach of Russian troops to the state borders of Ukraine
http://expres.ua/news/2014/04/24/105422-prorosiyski-terorysty-vtishayut-sebe-informaciyeyu-te-kordonu-ukrayiny

and to spice up everything the Head of committee Hosduma of Russia announced that bring water into the Crimea from Kuban or Caucasus is impossible.
http://ru.krymr.com/content/article/25361511.html



Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1010 on: April 24, 2014, 03:12:51 PM »
MsA...there actually is a few live streaming (videocam) websites in the significant cities presently under (*pending*) siege. Here's one good one complete with the latest photos and time line.

http://ukrstream.tv/en/videos/antitieroristichna_opieratsiia_u_slov_ians_ku_24_04_2014#.U1mMI1cvCac

Maybe you can find one that's actually a 'live videocam'?


Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1011 on: April 24, 2014, 03:57:17 PM »
Guys (all who debate about impeachment, proceedings, constitution and law), it isn't really matter anymore. Neither of the things you debate about started conflict with Russia. Russia started annexation of Crimea while Yanukovych was still a president.
http://ru.krymr.com/content/article/25359933.html


I wasn't debating, I was asking a question.  Also, this is a forum for discussion and debate so there is no reason to shut it down when it does happen.  Regardless if it currently matters.


My prayers do go out to your family (especially your brother). 

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1012 on: April 24, 2014, 04:11:08 PM »
So, where's the meathead that augured a win-win for Ukraine since Russia will never invade?
 
Will silly old man, thanks for the opportunity to restate my position!


I continue to steadfastly believe that the Russian troops are not going to invade unless other foreign forces become involved or something truly hideous occurs. 


To this point there have been no significant foreign forces or atrocities AND there has been no Russian invasion...


Despite your wrong predictions, drivel, tantrums, and whining, YOU still have egg all over your face.  :D


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline JayH

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1013 on: April 24, 2014, 05:17:27 PM »
I continue to steadfastly believe that the Russian troops are not going to invade unless other foreign forces become involved or something truly hideous occurs. 

To this point there have been no significant foreign forces or atrocities AND there has been no Russian invasion...

Fathertime!

Really-- this is past the point of the ridiculous. Russia HAS invaded Ukraine-- in this context I am not only referring to the Russian invasion of the Crimea--but Ukrainian mainland.
The fact is that Russian forces are on the Ukraine territory in many areas-- including military Russians acting under Russian military orders on Ukrainian mainland.
What has not happened ( YET) is overt  Russian invasion of mainland eg-- tanks,air etc of military wearing Russian identification and stating exactly that.
Sp please--being ridiculously obtuse over semantics is a diversion. To you--and others that want to take ridiculous theoretical positons-please show some respect for Ukraine and its people--plus all the people on forums that have relative and friends in Ukraine.
Regardless of any other issues-- the Russian invasion of Ukraine should be condemned-- so lets hear that from you-and others.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1014 on: April 24, 2014, 06:55:21 PM »
Really-- this is past the point of the ridiculous. Russia HAS invaded Ukraine-- in this context I am not only referring to the Russian invasion of the Crimea--but Ukrainian mainland.
The fact is that Russian forces are on the Ukraine territory in many areas-- including military Russians acting under Russian military orders on Ukrainian mainland.
What has not happened ( YET) is overt  Russian invasion of mainland eg-- tanks,air etc of military wearing Russian identification and stating exactly that.
Sp please--being ridiculously obtuse over semantics is a diversion. To you--and others that want to take ridiculous theoretical positons-please show some respect for Ukraine and its people--plus all the people on forums that have relative and friends in Ukraine.
Regardless of any other issues-- the Russian invasion of Ukraine should be condemned-- so lets hear that from you-and others.


 Well JayH, I don’t think you should read these posts of mine if you find them to be insulting.  It would seem that quite a few others are ok with them.  You have not seen me call for you to stop posting links that I think are slanted.  Despite you being a non-resident of the USA, you haven’t seen me condemn you for posting links that demand US action.  Should I be sensitive and insist that you worry about your own country’s involvement and not make demands on the USA?  I’d rather just allow you to voice your opinion, while I voice mine. 
 
To this point I have not seen a Russian invasion of the mainland.  If you feel there has been an invasion and can prove it, I will stand corrected.  Meanwhile I feel calling what has happened ‘an invasion’ is not correct…it may come to that, but it hasn’t yet.
 
Condemn what Russia has done?  I won’t condemn it, because I think I can understand why it is happening and understand what I think is their position.  I’m not endorsing it either.  I’m just calling a spade a spade, from my point of view.   I think we are getting a lot of phony high and mighty rhetoric from our 'representatives'...they probably have it all worked out how to profit from this and we just don't know it....
Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline calmissile

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1015 on: April 24, 2014, 08:34:32 PM »
Fathertime,

You have been selling your soft-sell Russian propaganda over and over and over.  Your assumption that you have many followers might be mistaken.

The most ridiculous statement that this is a win-win for both sides.  How the hell is it a win for Ukraine when an aggressor invades and annexes part of your country. Your conclusion that the referendum in Crimea was a fair and honest vote and expressed the will of the citizens is crazy.  It was a typical Soviet  stunt out of the cold war playbook.  It does not even make common sense!  If the Russian speaking Ukrainians in Crimea were about 60%, you are assuming that these peaceful people that coexisted with everyone else in Crimea for years, would suddenly want to switch to a totalitarian government.

How much time have you spent in Ukraine and Crimea?
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1016 on: April 24, 2014, 09:02:36 PM »
Fathertime,

You have been selling your soft-sell Russian propaganda over and over and over.  Your assumption that you have many followers might be mistaken.

 

 Where did I say I had any “followers”?  I don't think  I have any ‘followers’, that is ok.   


The most ridiculous statement that this is a win-win for both sides.  How the hell is it a win for Ukraine when an aggressor invades and annexes part of your country. Your conclusion that the referendum in Crimea was a fair and honest vote and expressed the will of the citizens is crazy.

Where did I say the referendum was a “fair and honest vote”….I don’t recall ever saying that…you can prove me wrong by quoting me, but I don’t think you will find that quote….I realize that 97% did not vote for it, that doesn’t seem possible….. the majority of people in Crimea probably did want to be annexed, even major news outlets seem to agree with this....but I don't believe that it was 97%. 

The most ridiculous statement that this is a win-win for both sides.  How the hell is it a win for Ukraine when an aggressor invades and annexes part of your country
How can it be a win-win?  Well I’m only offering a theory that it could be win-win, and yeah that is how I think it will go.  The fact that Ukraine no longer has Crimea doesn't mean that this still can’t be a reasonably good situation when all is said and done…. The story isn't over yet and I see Ukraine coming out of this in reasonably good condition when it is all over all things considered….I can understand that you might be caught up in the moment…when the whole situation is settled we shall see if it is as bad as you seem to think it will be…I don’t think so….They just had a government usurped/overthrown..whatever you want to call it....I would expect things to be far from perfect for a while.
Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline calmissile

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1017 on: April 24, 2014, 09:59:12 PM »
Fathertime,

You forgot to answer the question "How much time have you spent in Ukraine and/or Crimea?"   
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1018 on: April 24, 2014, 10:14:07 PM »
Fathertime,

You forgot to answer the question "How much time have you spent in Ukraine and/or Crimea?"


Why do you care?  You seem to think only people that have been there can have an opinion.  How much can you communicate with your wife to even understand what is happening?  I mean without a translator.  You made a few trips and think you're an expert now, eh?

Offline Young Fred

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1019 on: April 24, 2014, 10:55:50 PM »
I very much suspect that the US got involved for many reasons, profit being one of them.

Remember the Nuland - Pyatt phone call?  Was this leak really a silly mistake by two officials who should have known better, or did they create this leak on purpose? I'll speculate here and say the call was meant to be intercepted. This was, in effect, the US telling Putin "You don't pull the strings anymore, we do. Our puppets will be in power, and if the EU doesn't like it, tuff!" For
obvious reasons the US could not make this statement publicly!

What's in it for the US?  To start with, they have fostered support to weaken Russia's economy, and a weak Russia is one of the US foreign policy objectives. Do an internet search on "Brzezinski" and Russia's invasion of Afghanistan if you need more information.

Whether Putin fell for the phone call trap, or acted independently, one of the effects is that many European countries have stated they will increase military spending, and I doubt secondhand MIGs will be on their shopping lists.
US military exports can be very profitable.

Until recently Europe had no real need to look at alternatives to Russian gas. If Russia can be shown as an undesirable or unreliable trading partner, facilities to receive US gas could well be fast-tracked. Another win for US exports.

Of course, this does not excuse Putin's woeful behaviour in Ukraine, nor his theft of Crimea, and I sincerely hope that Ukraine remains intact and finally sheds herself of the thugs who have kept her people surpressed for so long.

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1020 on: April 24, 2014, 11:49:44 PM »
a weak Russia is one of the US foreign policy objectives.



Welcome to the forum Young Fred. Russia's foreign policy objective is to make America weak too. What scares you the most? A weak Russia or weak America? If Russia is weak, the world won't change much. If America is weak, the world will change a lot. Would you embrace a change like that or would you want your grandchildren to experience a dangerous world where America is weak? Compared to some of the events in history, I kind of like living in today's world. It's not so dangerous. Have you recently read about NATO members inviting American troops into their countries? How many nations fear America and have asked Russia to protect them?


Until recently Europe had no real need to look at alternatives to Russian gas. If Russia can be shown as an undesirable or unreliable trading partner, facilities to receive US gas could well be fast-tracked. Another win for US exports.



Obama is against tapping into America's fossil fuels. He's been holding up the Canadian pipeline that supposed to deliver oil into America for as long as he can. He's slowing other projects down too which in my opinion is hurting the economy and the country. If Ukraine is such a big money maker and American politicians are money hungry, you would've seen American troops in Ukraine by now for a guaranteed win. People tend to blame greed as the primary factor that shapes American foreign policy but they are mistaken. Both America and Russia desires Ukraine as a business partner but Russia and America will achieve their goals in different ways with one nation using force and bribes and the other using it's reputation as a reliable business partner as an influential tool.


Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline JayH

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1021 on: April 25, 2014, 01:20:45 AM »

Why do you care?  You seem to think only people that have been there can have an opinion.  How much can you communicate with your wife to even understand what is happening?  I mean without a translator.  You made a few trips and think you're an expert now, eh?

I do not know what your interest,involvement,experience in/about Ukraine  is-- but from many posts on this topic-- AND PREVIOUSLY-- I can see you are generally clueless. Now you trot out an attempt to insult Calmissile-- he has long ago been attacked on forums by many  and sundry --he survived bigger fools than you.Now you make this insulting attempt to provoke-- and what is worse-- it is in a thread on a very serious topic.You are one of the few that tries to make threads about themselves- for what purpose? Who knows and who cares.
The guy you are attempting to attack has made many trips to Ukraine-- immerses himself in studying the current situation as he learns more each day.
From your posts and a few others--it is clear that your understanding is thin-- and the specific flaw I see in many-- stuck in an earlier point in time.Anyone can have an opinion--but repeating it over and over is a serious waste of forum space.The basis of how the opinion is formed also happens to be relevant.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 01:32:55 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1022 on: April 25, 2014, 01:31:18 AM »
I very much suspect that the US got involved for many reasons, profit being one of them.

Remember the Nuland - Pyatt phone call?  Was this leak really a silly mistake by two officials who should have known better, or did they create this leak on purpose? I'll speculate here and say the call was meant to be intercepted. This was, in effect, the US telling Putin "You don't pull the strings anymore, we do. Our puppets will be in power, and if the EU doesn't like it, tuff!" For
obvious reasons the US could not make this statement publicly!

What's in it for the US?  To start with, they have fostered support to weaken Russia's economy, and a weak Russia is one of the US foreign policy objectives. Do an internet search on "Brzezinski" and Russia's invasion of Afghanistan if you need more information.

Whether Putin fell for the phone call trap, or acted independently, one of the effects is that many European countries have stated they will increase military spending, and I doubt secondhand MIGs will be on their shopping lists.
US military exports can be very profitable.

Until recently Europe had no real need to look at alternatives to Russian gas. If Russia can be shown as an undesirable or unreliable trading partner, facilities to receive US gas could well be fast-tracked. Another win for US exports.

Of course, this does not excuse Putin's woeful behaviour in Ukraine, nor his theft of Crimea, and I sincerely hope that Ukraine remains intact and finally sheds herself of the thugs who have kept her people surpressed for so long.
:welcome:  First off a welcome to forum.

My comments are not aimed at you-- but are more general.

None of the Ukraine situation is about the US-nor the west in general.
It is about Ukrainians wanting a better life-- to rid themselves of corruption and exploitation. they want a better life and to create a real future for Ukraine.That leads them to look west-- in the desire to be a part of the world. That is the overriding sentiment that lead to Maidan.

The idea of a democratic Ukraine free of Russian influence( control?) was unacceptable to Putin and his ambitions.

No matter how many ways people try and blame the west  or the USA-- it is misguided and misses the point dramatically of Ukrainians ambitions  for  a real future for their country as an INDEPENDANT country.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Russian Forces 10kms from Ukraine
« Reply #1023 on: April 25, 2014, 01:35:26 AM »

"Novoshakhtinsk is 10 km from the border with Ukraine. youtube In Novoshakhtinsk noticed modern technology Residents of the border town of Rostov Oblast Novoshakhtinsk videotaped movement of Russian army . Among the military equipment seen BTR-80, the soldiers KAMAZ, URAL of fuel, propelled artillery ustavnovka "2S23". However, as we found out, is a modern technique. Also note that Novoshakhtinsk is 10 km from the border with Ukraine.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/koristuvachi-internetu-znyali-yak-rosiyska-armiya-zahodit-u-prikordonne-z-ukrayinoyu-misto-346846.html   

The introduction of Russian troops in Ukraine - the issue soon. This follows from the statement of Senator of Federation Valery Shnyakina. The statement said that the Russian Federation Council is going to discuss the possibility of entering the Russian troops already next week, according to a story TSN.Ranok . Read more: Kyiv Kremlin gave two days to clarify the objectives of military exercises It is known that Russian troops already ten kilometers from the Ukrainian border, and appeared on the internet videos like streets Novoshakhtinsk Rostov region goes military equipment.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiya-vzhe-nayblizhchim-chasom-ogolosit-svoye-rishennya-pro-vvedennya-viysk-346998.html
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 01:37:52 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline justme100

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1024 on: April 25, 2014, 01:58:33 AM »
Guys (all who debate about impeachment, proceedings, constitution and law), it isn't really matter anymore. Neither of the things you debate about started conflict with Russia. Russia started annexation of Crimea while Yanukovych was still a president.
http://ru.krymr.com/content/article/25359933.html
Check your info before you post not to look so silly. ;D
http://aluse.net/медаль-за-возвращение-крыма-оказал.html
The same concerns the other links in your second post.
Try to watch videostreams from those places, then you will know the real info )

 

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