Hard work -- How can I explain this to my Russian wife?

[I/O]

Awww... they just want to give you a hug...

~OMG~ They're poofters...!!!

I/O

[vwrw]

Journeyman, looking at your ability to draw inference from a learned info and your bottomless tolerance to other people's ideas I am not surprised that you need to work the long hours to obtain the results you wish to get.

From I/O: Believe me, I have had to hand out some fairly tough words to Mrs I/O on the value to our life of my work. Since she started working herself, she is starting to "Get it", but it is a process.

From Journeyman: I will once again invite others to offer additional examples of similar work in the FSU.

vwrw:Journeyman, if you indeed had found I/O's post to be good one why did you  not read his post as carefully as I/O read yours?  

Neither examples of similar work in the FSU nor fairly tough words are going to convince your wife to change her opinion; only experience of being successful in business or possessing of high-developed conceptual skills or exposure to cognitive therapy  may help your wife to appreciate your attitudes and understand why you have to do that what you do.    

In your case where wife prefers to be kept (understanding through experience is not an option) and where wife has insufficiently developed conceptual skills (if she had good conceptual skills she would have comprehended your attitudes independently and not have needed your explanations) all you can do is to resort to the cognitive therapy.

[BC]

In your case where wife prefers to be kept (understanding through experience is not an option) and where wife has insufficiently developed conceptual skills (if she had good conceptual skills she would have comprehended your attitudes independently and not have needed your explanations) all you can do is to resort to the cognitive therapy.

wow.. now that's a bunch of malarkey...

has little or nothing to do with her cognitive or conceptual skills... Haven't met her but am quite sure she knows black from white and things like happy or unhappy.. It's all a matter of adjusting her priorities to those of her husband and/or vice versa to find good middle ground they both can stand on.

I can not think of any jobs overseas I have witnessed first hand that come close to matching the corporate rat race in the US. 

[Blues Fairy]

VWRW, wow, your analysis is quite severe!  Now the poor lady has low IQ, low empathy, AND prefers being kept; how come you already know so much about her having so little introductory information?  Your own conceptual skills can go very far, I see. 

Perhaps more likely, super-busy people were not common among her environment and seeing her husband work his a$$ off like that baffles her and fills her heart with pity.  The idea that hard all-absorbing work can actually be enjoyed does not come naturally to everyone, especially if their own friends and relatives did not enjoy their employment and reduced it to a required minimum.  I, personally, have seen people working 11 hours per day and thoroughly enjoying it.  Start-up business owners, for example - I'm sure they are similar in any country.

[vwrw]

wow.. now that's a bunch of malarkey...

BC, which exactly part of my post is the  malarkey?
I am also quite sure she knows black from white and things like happy or unhappy. Even little children can distinguish between the things. Moreover, some of the little children even understand that parents need to work hard and sometimes long hours to generate enough money to buy toys. In my opinion if a woman is not able to understand what even little kids can understand then the woman need  developmental training.

 B/F,  Journeyman said that his wife was essentially a "kept woman," in prior marriage. It seems to me that she may be a "kept woman", now too. 

From B/F: The idea that hard all-absorbing work can actually be enjoyed does not come naturally to everyone, especially if their own friends and relatives did not enjoy their employment and reduced it to a required minimum.

B/F, I agree with you that the idea that hard all-absorbing work can actually be enjoyable does not come naturally to everyone.  If the woman could not understand how her husband can enjoy his hard work it could be one case; but the problem is that she can not understand that to make good money most people really do need to work hard and that her husband can be really busy when he is at work.

[FredC]

I know that I had a problem like this several years ago. I was working at what is called the "National Security Complex", we were not allowed to use our cellphones. We had to turn them off and leave them in our cars. Hummers with electronic equipment would randomly drive through the parking lots. If it flagged your car, you would be called to let them in. If when they checked the call log you had made or received a call during working ours, you were fired. No questions asked. My girlfriend at the time could not get it through her head that I couldn't get calls on my cell during the day.  To this day, I still don't think she every really understood. I know this doesn't offer any help, but I can empathize with you.

[Ranetka]

At some point of my career as an assistant accountant we had some project needed to be finished . We were doing about 80 hours a week (5 of us). Since it was project related and we knew the faster we work the sooner we will finish (took around 4 months) we did not spend any time on chatting or tea drinking etc.

P.S. I have had three different people working with Americans saying that they are very hard working but very unefficient. Like to work for the sake of working and do not like make things simpler. I can say about the English they definetely over-complicate things (unnesassery paperwork and meetings). hence a lot of time wasted.

[Ranetka]

.

P.S. I have had three different people working with Americans saying that they are very hard working but very unefficient. Like to work for the sake of working and do not like make things simpler. I can say about the English they definetely over-complicate things (unnesassery paperwork and meetings). hence a lot of time wasted.

Oh may be it is not as much American or English as corporate blame culture I don't know.
You know email instead of phone to have a paper proof, copy email to everyone you can think of to avoid attitudes, meeting instead of gathering opnions and deciding oneself to shift responcibility...All takes time...Guilty muself...

[BC]

BC, which exactly part of my post is the  malarkey?

The paragraph of your post that I quoted.

Was my response not clear?

Lets put it this way.. I myself worked for a while in such an environment.  Since my priorities in life were not compatible I walked away.  I've had a standing offer for several years to go back with a considerable increase in income, but I respectfully decline when reminded.

I simply cannot adjust to that environment anymore.  Ask anyone who for several years successfully jumped the gap from employee to gainful self employment.  Ask them if they would consider punching a time clock again..

Throughout life we build our little list of life priorities.. It can be extremely difficult if asked to throw some of them out.  It's not an overnight thing..  More like years.

One of the foremost thoughts that helped me decide to form a family again, is that I now have time for them..  this was compatible with my wife's priorities.

[diverboy70]

One of the foremost thoughts that helped me decide to form a family again, is that I now have time for them..  this was compatible with my wife's priorities.

This is exactly how I am thinking! Either I go the career path or I go for creating a new family.

Going through a divorce makes you think a lot about your current situation and what you want to do in the future! I did a lot of hard thinking and came out on the other side with some answers, that I will try to go trough with. I realized that the most important thing for me is family life. The options was finding a woman that already has a child or to find a younger woman that wants to create a family. After a lot of soulsearching I opted for the second alternative.

Since I allready have a son from my former marriage I know that Im not really fair just searching for a woman without children. But that is my deliberate choise. Sorry, life is not allways fair!

I also realized that if I was going to commit to a woman fron FSU she would need love and support much more than a lot of money. I know it is a balance, you need to have a fair amount of money to support her integration to her new society. Fortunately I have some money in the bank and a decent middle managemanet job in sales & marketing. and no debts!

I have also described my financial situation in big terms to my girl, without going in to spedifics.

I would never go trough with this if i was not sure I could pull it off financially. Some recent post here has shown what can happen if you pull up a girl from her environment and then  are not willing to make the financial "sacrifice" to stand by her and support her integration in to her new environment! That is the worst thing you can do to a girl, be a man and take your responsibility, including the financial responsibility, or forget about the whole thing!

Anyway, sorry got a bit off topic there, the most important thing is that you and your woman have the same thoughts about what economic level you want to be at and to what price. This is something that should be discussed long before any K 1 or engagement, because it is such a fundemental queastion.

I have allready said that I will not work more than my 40 hour week, if we will have small children in the house. This also means that I may have to pass on some promotions during this time. This is of course my own decisions, but I have put it very straight to J. that this is nothing that I will compromise with!

[vwrw]

Throughout life we build our little list of life priorities.. It can be extremely difficult if asked to throw some of them out.  It's not an overnight thing..  More like years.

BC, I agree that each of us builds his/her little list of life priorities and that it is extremely difficult to throw some of the priorities out.  However, Journeyman does not ask his wife to re-rank her priorities or throw some of them out. He asks her to open her mind and understand that notwithstanding that he does not work at  daycare as a nurse he still have to put a lot of efforts to accomplish his work tasks; that notwithstanding that he is not Ukraine woman working 2 or 3 jobs he still needs to work hard for a living and keeping his position and reputation in company.

Anyway…how do your recollection about your achievements in your past and your opinion about priorities support your assertion that the paragraph of my post that you quoted is the  malarkey?

[Kuna]

I'd rather spend time with my wife. 

 

Then do it - and stop posting on forums looking for ways to have her stop contacting you while you're at work!!!

You do have a pool don't you?

  

[BC]

Anyway…how do your recollection about your achievements in your past and your opinion about priorities support your assertion that the paragraph of my post that you quoted is the  malarkey?

I am at a loss how I can explain it better than I already have without complicating matters even more.. I seems Blues Fairy caught my 'drift' fairly well and provided an example from her experience.. maybe reading her post as well will help make things more clear for you.  I believe we were both saying the same thing.

 

[AnastassiaAsh]

Journeyman, how many times a day does she call you at work?

What does she want to talk about exactly?

How long has she been in the US?

[steviej]

Awww... they just want to give you a hug...

BC, I/O: Ronnie says, "...  the female brain naturally releases oxytocin after a 20-second hug. ... " I want one too !!!

[BC]

BC, I/O: Ronnie says, "...  the female brain naturally releases oxytocin after a 20-second hug. ... " I want one too !!!

Read bold above..  -go shake a stick.

 :whirling:

[steviej]

BC, I/O: Ronnie says, "...  the female brain naturally releases oxytocin after a 20-second hug. ... " I want one too !!!

Read bold above..  -go shake a stick.

You mean we don't get this rush? Man, what a rip off!

[Shadow]

Read bold above..  -go shake a stick.

 :whirling:

Steviej meant he wants a female brain.

[Turboguy]

Humm,  I can see if my ex-wife wants to donate her brain to him.  She never used it much anyway.

Journeyman,  Since with the exception of I/O we are all too stupid to understand what you were really asking I am not sure if it is worth trying to put anymore input into your problem.

Sometimes just as a health problem in one part of the body can cause a symptom in another part of the body, it is just possible you are the one who doesn't understand the problem. 

One comment that a former pro speaker friend of mine said one time that stuck was this.   He commented that "one of the most popular tools in America is the 3/8" cordless electric drill".  Then he added "The funny thing is no one really wants a 3/8" cordless electric drill, people really want a 3/8" hole".    Sometimes what people ask for is not what they really want. 

First off since you run this 100 million dollar division what the heck does it matter if everyone else is working their tail off.   You de boss, man! or so you tell us.  You are there for your brain not to slave away.   It sounds like you are either totally disorganized or more likely a micro manager who can not delegate.  People who RUN a 100 million dollar division should be able to prioritize their life and your priorities suck.

The way business changes these days, both that division and your job won't be there 10 or 20 years from now and if you don't make time for your wife, she won't be there either.   Yes, I am sure there will be other companies and other jobs, better or worse but wives are meant to hang around for a while.   If you can't make time to talk to her for a few minutes a few times a day even if it is about nothing the problem is not a need to find some experience she can relate to in her home country.   The problem is you have really f--ked up priorities.   It almost sounds to me like you don't feel real capable of running the 100 million dollar division and are trying to make up for it by working yourself to death. 

Perhaps the reason we all were too stupid to see what you where asking is because we were smart enough to see the real problem.

[2tallbill]

including outside professionals and direct reports, all work 55+ hours per week on average. 

I frequently work more hours than that per week, but I work at least half (sometimes more)
of my time at home.

Working 55+ hours per week away from your wife doesn't bode well for an international
marriage. She will need you more frequently than you can imagine.

NEVER EVER let your FSUW stay bored and alone at home.

[krimster2]

and beware her jealous, back-stabbing Russian "Friends"
ponelle?

I don wanna steal yur 'Rizz' ''Bra....
only 'Respect 'Bra!!!

Some of them Russian Wimmin are 'freakin EXACTLY like 'Natasha on 'Rocky and BullWinkle"
EXACTLY!!!

you get a big, strong one...
and when you go on a "CRIME SPREE" they'll wanna come along TO!!!

you know, like J-Walking...
both ways...

yeah, pretty wild, right?
it's crazy man!

she's Bonny...
and I'm "Collide"...

and I'm just a J-Walkin' Fool...

[2tallbill]

and beware her jealous, back-stabbing Russian "Friends"
ponelle?

Pravda! YA ponimayu
Absolutely true, I have met enough of them to last a life time.

Angel Eyes is pretty good at weeding out Russians.

[Trenchcoat]

Is there any parallel for men or women in the FSU regarding the intense pace at work that some of us experience in the United States?  If so, even though I have been traveling to the FSU and interacting with Russian folks since 2000, I have not yet seen any corollaries in their country.  I think that I must have just missed something.

I work in a professional environment (executives, lawyers, CPAs, bankers, etc.), and run a corporate division with an annual volume of $100 million and growing.  The people with whom I interact, including outside professionals and direct reports, all work 55+ hours per week on average.  Sometimes more, rarely less.  All are working in 4th gear constantly, and many go into overdrive for hours or days at a time.  Rarely, rarely, can anybody coast, even for a day.  One lawyer (outside counsel) with whom I work closely works nearly ALL his waking hours, and is never disconnected fully from his practice, and ends up working regularly on his "vacations" (for which I have had to apologize to him from time to time -- for keeping him so busy).  I'm sure this is a familiar theme to some of you who are reading this.

I am finding that my Russian wife just doesn't seem to understand that when I am at the office or on the road, I am really working hard.  I am not playing golf, not sitting at a restaurant tipping a few with other businessmen, and not just hanging out with the boss.  It just seems that she doesn't have any frame of reference for understanding this kind of work.  Granted, she knows a few Russian WOMEN back in Ukraine who are sometimes working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.  However, it doesn't seem that she thinks it possible that a successful MAN actually "works" hard for a living.  Sometimes very hard.  I get the impression that she thinks that a man who wears a suit to the office has somehow "made it" and can thereafter simply "coast" once he arrives at his place of work.  She will think nothing of launching into a lenthy, difficult conversation on the telephone in the middle of my work day, as though I have nothing better to do.   If  I tell her I am really busy, but want to continue the conversation later when I get home, she sometimes responds ......"how can you be so busy, you aren't a mother with a child."  BTW, we don't have children (not yet).  She is in her early thirties and has never had what we would call a career, or had steady employment for years at a time.  Of course, simply that is a rather difficult thing to come by for many Ukrainians.  In her prior marriage, she was essentially a "kept woman."  She admits that she is a little spoiled, but I would not regard her wants or attitudes toward material things as excessive.  Still, I keep thinking that she has to understand that a man doesn't make good money by simply "showing up" for work. 

Naturally, I keep finding that her frame of reference for many things is limited, of course, to those things in her prior experiences in Ukraine.  However, even with respect to successful men in Ukriane, she seems to think that they just "enjoy" their status, cheat on their wives with younger girls, and drink expensive vodka and cognac, etc., but not really work.  Maybe that is true?  A continually vigorous pace of work just seems to be "foreign" to her -- except when she worked in her vegetable garden at her parents dacha, working all day long tending to the plants and vegetables.  However, I have also heard of similar stories of Russian women who have come to this country, getting an opportunity to work at either an entry level (say, a bank teller), or perhaps even a significant level (say, a physician), and then are shocked to find how intense the work situation is here -- fast-paced and unrelenting pressure.  True, nobody puts a gun to the heads of people in my position -- to work in this environment.  But many people would like to enjoy some of the benefits that come from this kind of work.  Including my wife. 

So, again, the question:  Is there a parallel for men in the FSU with respect to this kind of work pace?  How can I help her understand what I experience when working?  To what in Russian life can I refer to in order to help her develop an understanding of this aspect of life -- other than her vegetable garden?

Journeyman

I think this is all very true, the Ukrainian girl I am with doesn't really seem to understand that there is such a thing as having to 'work' again least unban environment where you just can't sit around having calls with her and long lengthy chat at any time if the day, at work or at home when resting it bedding to do chores. She has come around a bit but seeing as people know on here that I don't exactly have a very hard paced work, work, work lifestyle it is kind of surprising. In many ways I am lucky to be able to spend some time at work on communication with her, many Employers here in the UK would throw a wobbler if they saw you communicating at work on anything other than work and even fire you from your job  without much warning. So a lot of my time with my girl has to be scheduled and I think at first she found it odd and difficult to understand that I had to schedule time with her to make any time with her possibly for communication or in person.

The US is probably even more faced paced than here from what I have heard though that's probably place and workplace dependent. I think someone with a heavy schedule such as OP above will have a hard time with many FSW with them comprehending the situation, how life is in the West. It just kind of makes he laugh that even my fairly easy going pace of life is seen as a bit full on in the FSU lol.

The Jealousy thing with friends in my present relationship I have come across though fortunately (as far as I know do far) I have been lucky enough on that front, their has only been one jealous friend I know off and she is stuck back in Ukraine keeping her out of trouble. Some initial long distance trouble making from her but fortunately my girl didn't buy it and things have moved on now though. In a previous relationship 'kherson girl' mentioned what some of her friends/people she knew thought of me, even though again they had not met me. Whether true or made up the potential for bs from so called friends about you and your relationship is a potential iceberg for many a relationship with a FSW I feel. Either she is into you enough and not paranoid enough to not believe them or she believes then and it torpedoes your relationship, not the kind of helpful people you need around

[2tallbill]

In a previous relationship 'kherson girl' mentioned what some of her friends/people she knew thought of me, even though again they had not met me.

I remember my first sex with a girl too, it was sooooo fun and exciting. I never felt the
compulsion to talk about her ad infinitum. I never analyzed it to death. I never related
that to any another relationship in my entire life.   

You overthink things far too much and while I am sure you have fond memories, you
need to move on from that girl.

Udachi!

[Trenchcoat]

I remember my first sex with a girl too, it was sooooo fun and exciting. I never felt the
compulsion to talk about her ad infinitum. I never analyzed it to death. I never related
that to any another relationship in my entire life.   

You overthink things far too much and while I am sure you have fond memories, you
need to move on from that girl.

Udachi!

I've moved on from that girl but it happens to be the case that the situation was one where a lot of learning took place. I've had other experiences with other FSW and occasionally I bring up them also.