Why was MH 17 on that course ?

[Anotherkiwi]

Exactly.  Though to be fair, when the terrorists shot down MH17, they did believe it was a Ukrainian military plane.

Which shows their sheer stupidity.

The plane was flying at 33,000 feet, on a steady course which would have taken it into Russian airspace within a few minutes.  What sane Ukrainian military pilot would have risked escalating the conflict to boiling point by flying a large plane across the border?  "Sorry, General, but I couldn't see the border from the air - there's no line drawn on the ground like it is on my map!" 

[Doll]

Exactly.  Though to be fair, when the terrorists shot down MH17, they did believe it was a Ukrainian military plane.

Again, can you provide any infor with the results of experts' investigation\research?
I keep reading Department of States briefings- they have NOT disclosed any official infor that proves it was done by "terrorists".
You may share with them because you seem to know better.
See- I didn't refer to Russian or Ukrainian mass media but the respected Departament of States.

[Faux Pas]

Exactly.  Though to be fair, when the terrorists shot down MH17, they did believe it was a Ukrainian military plane.

Considering the air traffic that was in the area, that's not a given

[Boethius]

Again, can you provide any infor with the results of experts' investigation\research?
I keep reading Department of States briefings- they have NOT disclosed any official infor that proves it was done by "terrorists".
You may share with them because you seem to know better.
See- I didn't refer to Russian or Ukrainian mass media but the respected Departament of States.

This was proven to be the terrorist's official page -


http://web.archive.org/web/20140717152222/http://vk.com/strelkov_info


The U.S. is not going to make any announcements beyond what it did, particularly when there is an official investigation going on.  It did state previously it had satellite images at the time, and that a missile hit the plane.

[missAmeno]

Doll, I already posted this photo previously for GQB (he as usual displayed nothing more than his ignorance on subject).

In the background destructed Boeing. Person in front you should have no issue to identify.



Some basic info that most people who followed news on tragedy of MH 17 are aware off and only some Russians and some of those who married to Russians seems to managed to miss:

The VK social networking page of Igor Strelkov — “defence minister” of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic — first announced: “We just downed an An-26 near (the town of) Torez.”
“And here is a video confirming that a ‘bird fell’,” said the post.
The website then provides a link identical to that published by Ukrainian media in reports about the Malaysia Airlines jet.
The video shows locals referring to the same coal mine in the region mentioned by Strelkov.
The strongly pro-Kiev Ukrainska Pravda news site later posted an audio recording of what it claimed were the intercepted field communications between rebels and a Russian agent discussing the downing.
“We just downed a plane,” a rebel the recording identifies as Bes (Demon) tells an alleged Russian military intelligency officer.
Another recording shows one alleged fighter reporting from the site of the plane’s remains that it was “100 percent certain this is a civilian aircraft.”
He spits out a Russian expletive when asked whether there were a lot of passengers on board.
– ‘We have seized missiles’ –
The VK post was soon removed — but not before its screen grab was captured and distributed in an English-language press release by the military headquarters of Kiev’s eastern campaign.
The comments attributed to Strelkov did not identify what missile was used to down the craft at what Kiev said was an altitude of 10,000 metres (33,000 feet).
But a message on the official Twitter account of the Donetsk People’s Republic had announced hours earlier that insurgents had seized a series of Russian-made Buk systems capable of soaring to that height.
“@dnrpress: self-propelled Buk surface-to-air missile systems have been seized by the DNR from (Ukrainian) surface-to-air missile regiment A1402,” said the post.
That tweet was later deleted as well.

http://patdollard.com/2014/07/exposed-what-really-happened-ukraine-rebel-leader-posts-facebook-boast-about-shooting-down-ukraine-plane-deletes-it-when-he-realizes-it-was-mh17/

Ukraine’s Defence Ministry has claimed that two of its military jets were shot down yesterday in the east.
The Sukhoi Su-25 fighters were shot down over an area called Savur Mogila.
Defence Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky said the planes may have been carrying up to two crew members each.
The separatist Donetsk People’s Republic said in a statement on its website that one of the pilots was killed and another was being sought by rebel fighters.
While the rebels deny having missiles capable of hitting a jetliner at cruising altitude, rebel leader Alexander Borodai has admitted that separatist fighters do have Strela-10M ground-to-air missiles which are capable of hitting targets up to an altitude of 11,500 feet.
In fighting on the ground, rebel leader Pavel Gubarev wrote on his Facebook page that his men had retreated from the villages of Chervona Zorya and Kozhevnya, on the Russian border about 30 miles from the scene of the crash.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-02f4-Two-Ukrainian-Su-25-close-air-support-jets-shot-down-in-eastern-Savur-Mogila,-Defence-Ministry-says#.VBW-nPldVVM

[Doll]

In the background destructed Boeing. Person in front you should have no issue to identify.



Some basic info that most people who followed news on tragedy of MH 17 are aware off and only some Russians and some of those who married to Russians seems to managed to miss:

-

So what did this "person" do?

[missAmeno]

So what did this "person" do?

Been there 

[GQBlues]

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/daily-updates

  This report is for the media and general public.


On 14 September, at about 15:00 hrs, the SMM was on patrol close to the Putilovka market, Kievskyi district, Donetsk city. The market appeared to have been subjected to shelling prior to the SMM’s arrival. Smoke was coming from one building and a fire brigade was at the scene. Members of the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”) present at the location reported that a total of four people had been killed in the incident. About 20 m from its position, the SMM team could see the body of a civilian woman lying on the street.


While at the scene, the SMM team heard mortar shelling. Subsequently, four shells impacted and exploded within 20 seconds about 200 m from the team’s position.


The SMM monitoring team stopped at another location about 1 km away from the market. About 10 minutes later another mortar shell exploded about 100 m from the SMM’s position. The SMM team immediately left the area.


********************************************************


SUMMARY

On 14 September the SMM monitored the situation and adherence to Minsk Protocol provisions in the areas east of Donetsk city. These areas have not been regularly patrolled by the SMM since the signing of the Protocol; breaches of the Protocol in these areas have been reported to the SMM.  The SMM covered the areas of the H21 road after Shakhtarsk (60 km to the east of Donetsk), Torez (69 km east of Donetsk) and the route northwards towards Debaltseve (70 km north-east of Donetsk), a strategic area which had been subject to intense fighting prior to the signing of the Protocol. The SMM also carried out an on-site assessment in the area of the MH17 crash site, upon request of the Dutch, Australian and Malaysian authorities. The patrol vehicles were damaged by artillery or mortar fire at 18:37. The team left the area in the remaining useable vehicle and returned to Donetsk city at 00:32 hrs today.

DETAIL


Prior to the departure of the patrol, the route and way-points were agreed upon in person and by phone with both parties, i.e. through the “Donetsk Peoples’ Republic” (“DPR”) commander with the so-called deputy minister of interior and with the Ukrainian Anti-Terrorist Operation Headquarters, as well as with local, sector and brigade commanders. The SMM kept both parties and the SMM Head Office abreast of its progress during the patrol.


Following the on-site assessment at the MH17 crash site in the area east of Donetsk city, the SMM (six monitors travelling in two armoured vehicles), whilst en route from Debaltseve (70 km northeast of Donetsk) towards Yenakiyeve (50 km northeast of Donetsk), was stopped at the Ukrainian Army checkpoint located halfway along the route, at the exit of Vuhlehirsk (60 km north-east of Donetsk).


After clarifications, the SMM passed through the checkpoint and continued its planned route towards Yenakiyeve. However, at the entrance to Yenakiyeve, the SMM noted that the bridge towards the city was destroyed and therefore impassable.


At 17:07hrs the SMM was advised by both parties to change its route, due to heavy fighting taking place in Yasynuvata (20 km north-east of Donetsk), and proceed south, i.e. towards Shakhtarsk (60 km east of Donetsk), passing through Maloorlivka and Kirovske.


At 17:48hrs the SMM arrived in Maloorlivka and, whilst moving through the last Ukrainian Army checkpoint, the SMM heard and visually observed a series of 22 loud explosions consistent with mortar impacts. These were about 50 to 80 metres away from the SMM vehicles that had been parked near a farm building, as advised by the Ukrainian Army.


Due to the proximity of the checkpoint and incoming fire, the SMM moved away on the road towards Maloorlivka in order to reach Kirovske, to the south, where the SMM was told it would be escorted by “DPR” representatives to Donetsk through Shakhtarsk. While en route to the “DPR” checkpoint, the SMM observed impacts close to the SMM vehicles, incoming from the north, and aimed at “DPR” positions. The SMM decided to pass through the first “DPR” checkpoint located at the entrance of Kirovske. The SMM could not use the parallel road as the SMM observed that this path was mined.


The armed men at the “DPR” checkpoint, ordered the SMM to immediately return to Maloorlivka. The SMM protested that this entailed a high risk for the security of the two SMM teams.  “DPR” representatives nonetheless refused to allow the SMM through the checkpoint. The SMM therefore decided to try again to pass through Maloorlivka and reach Debaltseve.


The SMM was in constant communication with both parties during the course of events, the SMM Head Office and the OSCE Swiss Chairmanship, but despite multiple phone calls to top management of both parties, the exchange of fire did not stop and the impact of mortars continued to occur.


At 18:11hrs, after the SMM was forced by “DPR” representatives to return towards Maloorlivka, the SMM observed heavy shelling consistent with mortar use.


At around 18:37hrs both SMM vehicles were hit by artillery fragments in the northern outskirts of Kirovske. The SMM retreated to a safer place and waited for guidance from both parties. As a result of shrapnel damage, one SMM vehicle was no longer operational and was left at the spot. The six SMM staff were gathered unharmed in the remaining armoured vehicle.


After phone consultations, the SMM decided to pass though the “DPR” checkpoint, escorted by the so-called “BERKUT” security forces of the “DPR” sent from Donetsk for the purpose. Whilst moving though the checkpoint the SMM vehicle was shelled from the north. The SMM reached its final destination, Donetsk city at 00:32hrs together with the “DPR” escort.


 

[Muzh]

Sounds eerily familiar.


Militants shoot at Russian military and each otherKYIV, September 15 /Ukrinform/. Between militant groups and parts of the Russian army in Donbas exchanges by "friendly fire" take place. In particular, near Debaltseve, terrorists fired with the artillery a sabotage and reconnaissance group of Russian troops.This was reported by coordinator of the Information Resistance group Dmytro Tymchuk on his Facebook page."There are cases of "friendly fire" between the militants and regular army units of the Russian Federation. As an example, in the area of Debaltseve, ??terrorists fired with the artillery a subversive and intelligence team of Russian troops. Skirmishes between groups of local terrorists are also recorded, including with the use of artillery," he said.According to the Information Resistance group, these incidents are caused by a low level of interaction between the militants, as well as between the leadership of terrorist organizations "LPR" and "DPR" and the Russian command.Tymchuk also noted that the total number of local militants is getting smaller in Russian-terrorist forces in Donbas. "Today, the share is 30%, in some areas of Luhansk region - up to 40%," he stressed.




http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/militants_shoot_at_russian_military_and_each_other_326096[/color][/font]

[GQBlues]

 

Since there's many of you who are totally convinced who shot down MH17, I thought I'd give you a heads-up and provide you the following bulletin. Walk your talk, folks and get rich!

A willing millionaire, through Wifka, will happily pay $30,000,000.00 to anyone who can give him the information on who shot down MH 17.

http://www.wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

So, please, don't trip over one another claiming that cool 30 mil.

...After the terrible assassination or "accident" all political parties, at home and abroad, said they owed it to the victims, their families and the public to clarify the circumstances of the crash and present evidence for what happened. None of this has yet been done. ...

LMAO! This is going to get interesting.

 

[Anotherkiwi]

Since there's many of you who are totally convinced who shot down MH17, I thought I'd give you a heads-up and provide you the following bulletin. Walk your talk, folks and get rich!

A willing millionaire, through Wifka, will happily pay $30,000,000.00 to anyone who can give him the information on who shot down MH 17.

http://www.wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

So, please, don't trip over one another claiming that cool 30 mil.

LMAO! This is going to get interesting.

Does this esteemed gentleman reside in Nigeria by any chance?

[GQBlues]

I'll assume he's living in Germany since WIFKA is a German fraud investigating company. Of course that doesn't  mean he isn't Nigerian...

The company contact information is on the website.

I just think it's so funny considering a whole lot of you are so convinced you know who downed MH17 so I thought this should be a great opportunity to get some extra cash. You can even pass along the youtube links as your major evidence, LOL.

Hell, you can all go as a group and just split the pot, LMAO!

[lordtiberius]

How many of your people have to die to get you to come correct on VVP?  Why isn't VVP paying the victims?  If Russia isn't one giant jail, why is Snowden trying to leave?

[GQBlues]

 

What? No takers? I thought all the evidence against the rebels and Russia were so incriminating...

Now you can hear ::::crickets:::::::

$30,000,000.00 greenbacks can buy some of you a whole lot of contact emails, trips and dine at the finest restaurants in Kiev so you can play the part of a white knight on your MOB wife-hunting trips...


 

Doll, I already posted this photo previously for GQB (he as usual displayed nothing more than his ignorance on subject).

In the background destructed Boeing. Person in front you should have no issue to identify.



Some basic info that most people who followed news on tragedy of MH 17 are aware off and only some Russians and some of those who married to Russians seems to managed to miss:

http://patdollard.com/2014/07/exposed-what-really-happened-ukraine-rebel-leader-posts-facebook-boast-about-shooting-down-ukraine-plane-deletes-it-when-he-realizes-it-was-mh17/

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-02f4-Two-Ukrainian-Su-25-close-air-support-jets-shot-down-in-eastern-Savur-Mogila,-Defence-Ministry-says#.VBW-nPldVVM

How about you MissA. Germany is not too far from England. With the evidence you're spewing all over this board, you can take them all and claim the $30 million big ones...

LMAO!

[BillyB]

What? No takers?

Don't want to take your money GQ. It's all yours since you've got the answers. First you need to find out who's putting up the money $30 mil for the ransom. Not even WIFKA, the German fraud investigating company who is promoting this, knows who it is. They talked to some Swiss accent middle man guy that paid them 40k euros for putting out ads. For all anybody knows, it could be Putin himself offering the money knowing he'll never have to pay since he destroyed the evidence, the missile launcher. Finding out who did it is only part of what is required to get the ransom. Showing where the launcher is at is also necessary to collect.  If Putin is behind the ransom, it's a good propaganda trick that is fooling some people.

[GQBlues]

Well there's one already doing the moonwalk...

Who's next?

[BillyB]

Well there's one already doing the moonwalk...

Who's next?

After all the time you spent on the internet searching, I assume you couldn't find the man who is offering the reward money. The man and the money is as mysterious as what happened with MH17.


If Putin did spend $40k euros to convince the world the answers doesn't exist, since the rocket launcher has been destroyed, he did it cheap. He can fool some of the people some of the time.............

[GQBlues]

LMAO! You read this from where? UkraineInvestigation.com. *The site that explains everything*? Or maybe from the 'Dissenting Opinion Forum', BillyB?

$30,000,000.00 BillyB. Imagine how many excavators and Super-10s you can get from Richie Brothers' auction with that money? Maybe a couple of 623s...

You do have all the valid evidences with you, right?

Anyway...sure got quiet around here pretty fast...for a while there all kinds of proofs and evidences were flying around, then poof!.  :::cricket:::::

[Gator]

Anyway...sure got quiet around here pretty fast...for a while there all kinds of proofs and evidences were flying around, then poof!.  :::cricket:::::

Do you actually believe RWD people ignored you because they are unsure how MH 17 was downed?

[GQBlues]

Unsure?!? Au contraire, LOL.

They've been confident and vocal about their convictions. Which is why I'm a bit surprised all of the sudden poof :::crickets::: That's 30 cool ones...

Now it can't possibly be because of my personality now Gator, is it? I won't believe that because I know your pack of chihuahuas see me in their sleep like you do...

[Muzh]

Do you actually believe RWD people ignored you because they are unsure how MH 17 was downed?

Actually, I'm very positive, not unsure, that the terrorists shot down the plane.


Now, where's the evidence? We'll have to wait like the rest of the world do when incidents like this happen.


I would be extremely skeptic if anybody from the investigators would provide conclusive evidence within a month of the incident. This things take a long time, exactly because they will reconstruct the incident and offer bullet-proof reasoning to support their findings.

[GQBlues]

But you don't think they have an obligation to make available what they have at this time considering the gravity of this tragedy? If you think they don't, then why continue to advance accusations/allegations without a bit of supporting information?

[GQBlues]

Anyway...had I been a betting man, I'd put my bet on MissA to collect the 30 mil. She sure have a lot of evidence she's been showing all of us.

If not MissA, then it'll have to be Boethius. She's nice to me sometimes, so hopefully when she gets the loot, she'll send some over to me...

I hope it isn't AnotherKiwi. It'll be a waste really...What will he do with 30 million in New Zealand? There's nothing out there but jagged rocks, fat people and flightless birds.

[BillyB]

Anyway...had I been a betting man, I'd put my bet on MissA to collect the 30 mil. She sure have a lot of evidence she's been showing all of us.

If not MissA, then it'll have to be Boethius. She's nice to me sometimes, so hopefully when she gets the loot, she'll send some over to me...

I hope it isn't AnotherKiwi. It'll be a waste really...What will he do with 30 million in New Zealand? There's nothing out there but jagged rocks, fat people and flightless birds.

How about Putin? My bet is on Putin can collect that 30 mil. Actually he doesn't need that money. He's one of the richest men in the world and will be richer after he seizes the companies of another Russian billionaire.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaires-house-arrest-sends-stocks-crashing-064903289--finance.html

[Doll]

GQBlues