How to Visit Many without lying?

[brownbeard99]

I don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to danger. She may be looking for a family life but she may not give up a lifestyle that you can't afford. If you're a quality man, she'd be a fool to give it up if you're a few dollars short.

Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.

You really have made me take a step back and take a look how I have proven everyone wrong so far... I plan to continue the trend.

People said as a man divorced twice with three kids, nobody will be interested in me... Wrong!
They said I couldn’t attract  a smoking hot, educated girl 15 years years younger than me... Wrong!
They said no girls will want me with a beard... Wrong!  In fact, this girl showed be pictures of her ex-boyfriend and he has a beard too.

They said the only reason a girl like that would ever talk to me is because she is using me to rescue her from a desperate situation.  Now that it’s clear she is not desperate, the prediction is she will dump me.

I made it very clear to this girl that I am not rich.  Much of my business is cyclical and I can take home anywhere from $100k - $300k a year. Volatility is the price I pay for being an entrepreneur.  Even in the good years, I don’t live a lavish lifestyle because I don’t know when a lean year will come.  I explained this to her and she fully understands.  She started a successful restaurant in her early 20’s and her ex husband buried it into the ground.  She understands how business works.

She may have been born with a silver spoon in her mouth, and be extremely beautiful, but her character is much deeper than that.  I think she likes me because I am not impressed with her money and don’t focus on her external beauty.  I care about who she is on the inside.  I don’t think she’s used to that.

She showed me her inbox on the dating site with over 500 incoming unread messages.  Out of all of the guys she talked to, she narrowed it down to a guy from London (TC?), a guy from Israel and me.  She said she lost interest in both of them and now is only talking to me.  We talk constantly... it reminds me of what Donna Said when she was first talking to Mr. Pedro... this girl doesn’t have time for another man!

[ML]

I care about who she is on the inside.

And you know about what's inside her how ???

How long have you been with her face to face ?

[brownbeard99]

And you know about what's inside her how ???

How long have you been with her face to face ?

Perhaps I need to be more clear.  I care about who she is, as in... I am interested in finding out who she is.  I care about the topic.  Make sense?

I don’t know much about who she is on the inside, but I CARE to find out.  Most men don’t really care to discover what is on the inside.

[BillyB]

Some guys are just trying to catch a woman. Catching a woman is actually easy. The part you need to worry about is understanding if she's worth catching. She likes you and you like her but you may not be compatible enough to live together. You may learn she wants to open another restaurant and she doesn't have a level enough head to be an owner and be successful. Lots of things to sort out. When you begin the process of figuring her out, she will notice and appreciate your interest in her and she may notice you have standards that if not met, you won't get into a relationship woman. She'll respect that.

[brownbeard99]

Some guys are just trying to catch a woman. Catching a woman is actually easy. The part you need to worry about is understanding if she's worth catching. She likes you and you like her but you may not be compatible enough to live together. You may learn she wants to open another restaurant and she doesn't have a level enough head to be an owner and be successful. Lots of things to sort out. When you begin the process of figuring her out, she will notice and appreciate your interest in her and she may notice you have standards that if not met, you won't get into a relationship woman. She'll respect that.

Great words to think about.  Everything seems really good so far and I get the sense that she will be likely be mine for the taking if I really want her.  There are already a handful of areas of concern that I need to delve in deeply with her if this going to continue.  I won’t know the answers until we spend extensive time discussing these things, in person.

I’m not going to marry some girl just because she is beautiful and I want to prove people wrong on some forum lol.

Billy, thanks for taking the time to give some solid advice. This whole thing involves real people with lives that can be forever impacted with these decisions.  Some people think this is a game. 

I was originally hoping to find my dream girl in my first couple of trips... finding a girl who meets my “checklist”  doesn’t seem to be very difficult.  Finding the one who is truly right for me may prove to be the challenge.  Whether it’s WMVM or WOVO, certain things you still can’t shortcut.

[Trenchcoat]

You really have made me take a step back and take a look how I have proven everyone wrong so far... I plan to continue the trend.

People said as a man divorced twice with three kids, nobody will be interested in me... Wrong!
They said I couldn’t attract  a smoking hot, educated girl 15 years years younger than me... Wrong!
They said no girls will want me with a beard... Wrong!  In fact, this girl showed be pictures of her ex-boyfriend and he has a beard too.

She started a successful restaurant in her early 20’s and her ex husband buried it into the ground.  She understands how business works.

She showed me her inbox on the dating site with over 500 incoming unread messages.  Out of all of the guys she talked to, she narrowed it down to a guy from London (TC?), a guy from Israel and me.  She said she lost interest in both of them and now is only talking to me.

Sorry my stubble just couldn't compete the girl has an obvious beard fetish! You should ask what happened to the beards of the other guys she dated, she may collect them

I think a lot of guys myself included look out for potential warning signs on here. Not really personal to you, some girls are straight up & some devious or on their own agenda. A newbie will take a lot for granted including any explanations, I did. However over time you realise to look for the written & spoken nuances that can convey the girl's intent. I missed a fair few of these as I hadn't the experience at the time of FSU dating. However, none of the girls I met were bad girls but I think at least some of them had their own agenda, I just didn't fit with it.

It's not really possible to say what's the game here, not for me at least. She may be straight up but many UW have an agenda though sometimes somewhat benign.

I think you earn quite a lot of money, sure you may know others that dwarf your income. For Ukraine though $100-300k a year even with the odd leaner year is a fortune. You can easily dwarf  the richer Ukrainians out there on that income and there are not many of them. Apparently most of the wealth has been stripped out off Ukraine over the last few decades and the little that remains is the final remnants off it.

If she had a restaurant that was run into the ground she may not have as much wealth as you think. She make out she has a lot but might not have that much. I would proceed and go meet this girl in person as soon as you can. Spend some time with her and really get to know her. Be careful what you are giving away about yourself in the process also. Either way she sounds like a interesting personality to meet.

[Trenchcoat]

Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.

Did you ever wonder if you were being used at all when she raised these topics with you Billy and that she might dump you after it was all done?

[brownbeard99]

Sorry my stubble just couldn't compete the girl has an obvious beard fetish! You should ask what happened to the beards of the other guys she dated, she may collect them

I think a lot of guys myself included look out for potential warning signs on here. Not really personal to you, some girls are straight up & some devious or on their own agenda. A newbie will take a lot for granted including any explanations, I did. However over time you realise to look for the written & spoken nuances that can convey the girl's intent. I missed a fair few of these as I hadn't the experience at the time of FSU dating. However, none of the girls I met were bad girls but I think at least some of them had their own agenda, I just didn't fit with it.

It's not really possible to say what's the game here, not for me at least. She may be straight up but many UW have an agenda though sometimes somewhat benign.

I think you earn quite a lot of money, sure you may know others that dwarf your income. For Ukraine though $100-300k a year even with the odd leaner year is a fortune. You can easily dwarf  the richer Ukrainians out there on that income and there are not many of them. Apparently most of the wealth has been stripped out off Ukraine over the last few decades and the little that remains is the final remnants off it.

If she had a restaurant that was run into the ground she may not have as much wealth as you think. She make out she has a lot but might not have that much. I would proceed and go meet this girl in person as soon as you can. Spend some time with her and really get to know her. Be careful what you are giving away about yourself in the process also. Either way she sounds like a interesting personality to meet.

When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?

I am constantly trying to demonstrate to this girl what my standard of living is like.  Since she lived in Switzerland part time, she seems to have a better understanding that $100 does not go as far in some countries as it does in Ukraine. For example, she goes to this restaurant where she can get a large sushi roll for about $3.  I told her that same roll will be $15-$18 here.  I have taken her with me on virtual shopping trips so she can get a better idea how expensive it is to live here.

To clarify the failed restaurant thing... she gave it to her husband in the divorce and he killed it after she left.  She went back to working for her family business... and they seem to be doing okay.

I am aware that there are a lot of gold diggers out there and they will not advertise it.  There are plenty here in the US.  My second wife had similar motives that were not revealed until years later.  This is a big concern of mine, which is why I try to downplay my financial situation.  I want a girl to feel confident I can take care of her, but don’t want her to expect massive wealth.

[krimster2]

the odds of meeting an oligarch's daughter online        1 in 10,000
the odds of meeting a scammer online                           50/50

don't let occam's razor shave your beard off, er Beard!

Slovo te mamachika!!

[Trenchcoat]

When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?

True many/nearly all will have an agenda. Some will be quite benign as wanting kids or companionship. Often I think their agenda stretches to other areas of their own personal interest. This may or may not include you in their long term plans. That said while a lot of UW are street smart I think some just want what they want and are fairly simple in outlook. Be cautious  of being played as part of agenda on their part though whilst trying not being too suspicious of her activity unless distinct tell tell signs are there.
I think the trick is to find a girl who is into you so her agenda whatever it was to start with generally takes back seat. That's what I'm hoping for on my next attempt at this with a bit of luck.

I think Krimster has a valid point about the odds of meeting an oligarchs daughter. Sure an oligarchs daughter would likey want to find at least a reasonably wealthy guy but the chances of meeting one online set against all the many poor girls out there??? Can't be high.

I'm not sure about her walking away from the restaurant if she was part of an oligarch's family either. Possibly she might only be semi wealthy out there. I think in Ukraine any sort of wealth would make a local a target unless they were ruthless enough to be able to protect it they would be easy prey. Most Ukrainians are pretty poor out there as a rule of thumb.

Easy to be suspicious but my suspicion would be if this girl is getting guys to finance her trips in some manner. Could be wrong, like I say I think this one is interesting enough for you to play along and find out if she is the real deal.

[brownbeard99]

True many/nearly all will have an agenda. Some will be quite benign as wanting kids or companionship. Often I think their agenda stretches to other areas of their own personal interest. This may or may not include you in their long term plans. That said while a lot of UW are street smart I think some just want what they want and are fairly simple in outlook. Be cautious  of being played as part of agenda on their part though whilst trying not being too suspicious of her activity unless distinct tell tell signs are there.
I think the trick is to find a girl who is into you so her agenda whatever it was to start with generally takes back seat. That's what I'm hoping for on my next attempt at this with a bit of luck.

I think Krimster has a valid point about the odds of meeting an oligarchs daughter. Sure an oligarchs daughter would likey want to find at least a reasonably wealthy guy but the chances of meeting one online set against all the many poor girls out there??? Can't be high.

I'm not sure about her walking away from the restaurant if she was part of an oligarch's family either. Possibly she might only be semi wealthy out there. I think in Ukraine any sort of wealth would make a local a target unless they were ruthless enough to be able to protect it they would be easy prey. Most Ukrainians are pretty poor out there as a rule of thumb.

Easy to be suspicious but my suspicion would be if this girl is getting guys to finance her trips in some manner. Could be wrong, like I say I think this one is interesting enough for you to play along and find out if she is the real deal.

It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page on this.

What I do know is that whatever this girl wants from me, it is worth her investing countless hours every day for weeks on end... including many nights with no sleep because she stays up all night talking to me.

I told her that I do not travel extensively like she may be used to... the most she can expect is 1-2 international trips a year. I told her I let my last live-in domestic helper go a couple years ago.  I don’t like employees in my house, so there will be no more maids, cooks, nannies, etc.  I am responsible for bringing home the bacon and my wife is responsible for all domestic duties.

I guess only time will reveal the truth here... and my curiosity really wants to know.  The opportunity cost is pretty low (assuming no body bags are involved).  The upside is high (I meet an incredible woman).  On the downside... I will at least have a helluva story for the forums.

It funny how the basic consensus is she’s too good to be true.  Women here tell me that all the time.

[krimster2]

have you picked out silverware yet?
did you set up the wedding registry?
so much for you to do now!!!

don't worry about trivial details like meeting in person...
that ALWAYS goes well for you doesn't it?
ohh and don't forget you got the beard helpin ya out with the ladies!!!
clever making yourself look 10 years older with the beard!
Ukrainian chicks TOTALLY DIG older guys and taking care of older guy's kids
they yearn for this!!!
a master stroke for sure!!!
and an oligarch's daughter is an even better story on your part!!!

[brownbeard99]

Okay, so I’m getting my last minute stuff together for my trip...

As suggested, I got some simple gifts like See’s candy and such.  So what’s the etiquette? Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her (I also got something for the parents, just in case).

I have been putting off this trip for three years. I’m excited that it’s finally happening...

[krimster2]

“I got some simple gifts like See’s candy and such...”


what a big spender!!!
impressive!!! 
amazing foresight on your part for sure, it’s ALL but guaranteed for you now!!!!
Man! when she sees that candy, she will totally KNOW how serious you are, and that YOU are totally the guy for her
and guess what?
you'll TOTALLY BEAT THE OTHER GUYS!!





“So what’s the etiquette?  Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her”



something tells me that you’re thinking along the lines of “just give it to her”
but that’s NOT the right answer!

you’re SERIOUSLY a 50 date veteran?
did a blow to the head give you amnesia or something?

See’s Candy?
you might as well go with a Pez Dispenser, actually think it’d be better IMHO...
I bet you have no idea how difficult it can be buying Pez in Ukraine
but it's not easy, let me tell you
I remember this one time ....
never mind, gotta go!!!

[brownbeard99]

See’s Candy?
you might as well go with a Pez Dispenser, actually think it’d be better IMHO...
I bet you have no idea how difficult it can be buying Pez in Ukraine
but it's not easy, let me tell you
I remember this one time ....
never mind, gotta go!!!

What kind of gift do you suggest then?

I’m new at this. I don’t recall ever giving a gift to a girl on a first date.  Even after that, I rarely give gifts (unless it’s her birthday or something)..  Maybe I sometimes bring a bottle of wine if a girl is making me dinner, but that’s about it.

[krimster2]

diamonds are a girl's best friend!
either play your "A" game or stay home...
a grand gesture
actually has to be grand!
but don't give her the jewelry right away...
wait for that "special moment"

best bet
get her clothing sizes (yes, ask her!)
convert the metric UA to US sizes
get the best cashmere sweater
you can buy in her size
ask about her clothing preferences, colors, etc

go fo the Pez

you don't think UA women like diamonds?
you pronounce it "brillante" in Russian
learn color, clarity, cut, carats

see pic below, typical reaction of UA woman to diamonds!!!

[brownbeard99]

diamonds are a girl's best friend!
either play your "A" game or stay home...
a grand gesture
actually has to be grand!
but don't give her the jewelry right away...
wait for that "special moment"

best bet
get her clothing sizes (yes, ask her!)
convert the metric UA to US sizes
get the best cashmere sweater
you can buy in her size
ask about her clothing preferences, colors, etc

go fo the Pez

you don't think UA women like diamonds?
you pronounce it "brillante" in Russian
learn color, clarity, cut, carats

see pic below, typical reaction of UA woman to diamonds!!!

Isn’t that stuff a bit over the top for a first date?

Like I said, I’m clueless here... I don’t normally bring anything to a first date.

[krimster2]

“Isn’t that stuff a bit over the top for a first date?

Like I said, I’m clueless here... I don’t normally bring anything to a first date.”


whaaaaattttttcha talkin bout Willis?
bringing nuthin?
you better NOT do that to a UA woman!!!!

ok, you don’t hand her ALL the booty on the first date!!!
geezzz!
you escalate at the appropriate time, with a pièce de résistance if things work out...
wimmin freakin love clothes and jewelry
so ya get em used to the idea, that you’re cool with ALL THAT
and you like gettin it for em!!!!

it’s all ya gotta do...

first date, you can totally bring her a cashmere sweater
nothing is more personal or intimate than clothing or jewelry (don’t do lingerie!)
and then she puts on what you brought her and you head out for sushi!!!

this would be a great start!!!

you weren't thinking of behaving with this UA woman like you would on a date with a AW?
no......

[Trenchcoat]

In my case BB I go for flowers, there the standard staple to give a FSW. Now your unlikely to be able to get them there as she's meeting you at the airport isn't she. So I would get some within 24hrs before leaving, stuff them in your suitcase and hope for the best. Either go for a bunch - odd numbers - or just one. If you're goimg back to her place/your place in a taxi then a bunch is fine. If there is any strolling around involved then just one rose works a treat, much more convenient for her to cart around.

Red is the standard safe bet for rose colour. In my opinion different colours i.e in her favourite colour doesn't tend to yield any better results. Also if she's not into you then no rose or attentative to colour will help you out I find.

Gifts are fine with a visit like yours but don't thrust it all on her at arrivals, just the flower(s) will do. Otherwise it can be pretty awkward and lacking in grace/sophistication. More so if her accomodation  is not close at hand. The gift you want to have maximum effect. Plus I've learnt that of the girl is not into you its a waste to give her a gift/expensive  gift. You could even take an expensive one & and cheaper one, and give her the cheaper one if its looking more like a friends thing Keep the expensive one back for a refund or visit to another girl. Similarly if you're not getting on at all then no need bothering giving her a gift. Judge it as it goes & give her a good few hours at least as time in which she has the option of bailing.

Keeping a gift back from a general 'we got on ok' date means forgoing the bother of getting another gift next time as odds are you'll never see her again. Just do the same again with next girl until you meet a girl worthy of gift giving

[krimster2]

Trench,

I have an even better approach!
you give a UW a piece of jewelry
but it has a tiny, invisible kevlar thread tied to it
and after she accepts it, you say, "look!  what's that over there"?
and when she turns her head to look
you yank on the kevlar thread and back the jewelry goes straight into you pocket, completely undetected!!!
it takes a bit of practice to get it right!!!

[BillyB]

Did you ever wonder if you were being used at all when she raised these topics with you Billy and that she might dump you after it was all done?

Not at all. I'm happy every time my wife advances in life. No need to fear when she gets the green card, citizenship, graduate from college or get a job and make good money. I help her every step of the way instead of locking her up in a closet.

I got some simple gifts like See’s candy and such.  So what’s the etiquette? Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her (I also got something for the parents, just in case).

See's candy is good stuff and all FSU women I've given it to love it. I wouldn't give a card or wrapped anything. If your bags get inspected at the airports, the wrapping comes off anyway. Challenge yourself to win the girl over with who you are, not what you give or have in your wallet.

[John Gaunt]

In my case BB I go for flowers, there the standard staple to give a FSW. Now your unlikely to be able to get them there as she's meeting you at the airport isn't she. So I would get some within 24hrs before leaving, stuff them in your suitcase and hope for the best. Either go for a bunch - odd numbers - or just one. If you're goimg back to her place/your place in a taxi then a bunch is fine. If there is any strolling around involved then just one rose works a treat, much more convenient for her to cart around.

Red is the standard safe bet for rose colour. In my opinion different colours i.e in her favourite colour doesn't tend to yield any better results. Also if she's not into you then no rose or attentative to colour will help you out I find.

Gifts are fine with a visit like yours but don't thrust it all on her at arrivals, just the flower(s) will do. Otherwise it can be pretty awkward and lacking in grace/sophistication. More so if her accomodation  is not close at hand. The gift you want to have maximum effect. Plus I've learnt that of the girl is not into you its a waste to give her a gift/expensive  gift. You could even take an expensive one & and cheaper one, and give her the cheaper one if its looking more like a friends thing Keep the expensive one back for a refund or visit to another girl. Similarly if you're not getting on at all then no need bothering giving her a gift. Judge it as it goes & give her a good few hours at least as time in which she has the option of bailing.

Keeping a gift back from a general 'we got on ok' date means forgoing the bother of getting another gift next time as odds are you'll never see her again. Just do the same again with next girl until you meet a girl worthy of gift giving

You should write a book Trench. You could title it, ‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’

[jone]

Mr. Beard,

Don't cater to Krimster.  He overplays everything on this forum.  As stated  before, don't go overboard on the first meeting.  If you want to buy your woman diamonds down the road, feel free.   But the first trip is always to see if there is chemistry.

Krimster is advocating giving gifts for the role of legsplitter. 

I don't think you need that.   Your place in life and what you want from a woman indicates that if the woman likes you for what you buy her, you will not find what you are looking for. 

I was asked by my woman not to post any more pictures of her on here.  But she is an exceptional looking woman and very sweet and giving.  I did not have to win her over with expensive gifts.   You shouldn't have to either.  Find the woman who is going to be with you in good times and bad.  To me, that means that your gifts should not be a bribe, but an acknowledgement that you treasure your meeting.

[rwd123]

Buy her a diamond as big as a pelmeni. Then get her to eat it like in the film Marathon Man.

Is it safe?

Well, to be on the safe side start small and conservative. A single rose or NICE chocolates is generally sufficient. Alternatively rock up with nothing. But you are projecting, and she will have expectations. So use your intuition. Gifts will typically increase in size/price so if you start big you're only going to get bigger.

[brownbeard99]

Mr. Beard,

Don't cater to Krimster.  He overplays everything on this forum.  As stated  before, don't go overboard on the first meeting.  If you want to buy your woman diamonds down the road, feel free.   But the first trip is always to see if there is chemistry.

Krimster is advocating giving gifts for the role of legsplitter. 

I don't think you need that.   Your place in life and what you want from a woman indicates that if the woman likes you for what you buy her, you will not find what you are looking for. 

I was asked by my woman not to post any more pictures of her on here.  But she is an exceptional looking woman and very sweet and giving.  I did not have to win her over with expensive gifts.   You shouldn't have to either.  Find the woman who is going to be with you in good times and bad.  To me, that means that your gifts should not be a bribe, but an acknowledgement that you treasure your meeting.

I was thinking along these lines.  If the girl is used to guys buying her expensive gifts, I want to be the opposite of that.  I want to discourage any women who may be interested in me for financial reasons.