ML and Ukrainian Women.

[ECOCKS]

I think ML is more on a health/weight regimen than a dictatorial effort to make her more attractive.

So, what if the guy boldly declares that he MUST have facial hair? Controlling or not?

What if she declares she can NEVER love a man who would grow facial hair? Controlling or not?

[Faux Pas]

I'm going to take a stab at it for shitz and giggles 

I think ML is more on a health/weight regimen than a dictatorial effort to make her more attractive.

The motivation isn't really material here IMHO. Whether it is for her to keep the shape that sexually arouses him or whether it is strictly for her health. He is demanding that she conform to his wishes where it doesn't affect him physically or his health. Bread, beer or Russian roulette really makes no difference, does it? Insisting she bend to his will on this trivial matter (which may not be trivial to her) is controlling behavior and "could" easily reflect or extend to other deeper psychological issues. Not stating that it does in this instance only that such requests is controlling behavior.

So, what if the guy boldly declares that he MUST have facial hair? Controlling or not?

Not controlling. It is a personal decision such as desiring to eat bread

What if she declares she can NEVER love a man who would grow facial hair? Controlling or not?

Controlling without question.


IMHO, when one enters into a relationship with anyone else, romantic or not (many controlling relationships are not romantic) insisting someone do or not do, eat, act or anything else is controlling behavior. It's not a just made up PC term. It's a behavior as early as men walked the earth.


Some of it is harmless, some of it isn't

edit to add:

In a relationship of a romantic nature, to each their own but, to love someone is to accept who they are, their quips, quirks, mannerisms ect.. For anyone who thinks they can change another, good luck with that. You may find a degree of early success but don't bet on it in the long run

[ECOCKS]

FP:

First, it really throws me that this topic has any legs.

That aside, do you even remotely consider the possibility that the woman doesn't give a damn about the bread ration? At all?

The guy only allows 12 grain bread in his house and follows a regimen of limited consumption. The gal is "stoic", seems to miss it but not enough to make an issue of it. THIS constitutes controlling behavior?

I see/hear an eccentric who has fund someone who is hanging around, living in his home and has the means to come and go, leave permanently and is apparently in a consensual relationship. No outcry for help. No different than any other relationship.

Because, really, that's all anyone seems to have shown here. No leg chains, no economic coercion, no browbeating, just assumptions and baseless innuendo.

[OlgaH]

I think ML is more on a health/weight regimen than a dictatorial effort to make her more attractive.

So, what if the guy boldly declares that he MUST have facial hair? Controlling or not?

What if she declares she can NEVER love a man who would grow facial hair? Controlling or not?

Ed, I think you need to look for some articles on controlling behavior.

We are talking about relationship.
If a man declares that he MUST have facial hair and he doesn't care what she thinks and feels about his decision and even doesn't want to have her opinion especially if they met when he didn't have any facial hair at all and never discussed it before I would say, yes, it is a sign of his controlling behavior. (or he is just, pardon my french, a jerk)

The same about a woman in a relationship.

Controllers usually don't discuss, they don't negotiate, they don't want to consider an opinion of their partners, but they give an ultimatum.
A healthy person has all four psychological function (intuiting, thinking, feeling and sensing) working, a controller has one or more function blocked, and usually it is his/her feeling function blocked. Reasons why some functions are blocked or undeveloped, especially feeling function, are rooted very often in childhood.

When feeling function is blocked people are unable to feel a real sympathy for others that means they are unable to put themselves in the position of a person they try to control. More over as I mentioned before the controllers deny individuality of their victims and they assume "one mind" with their victims on whom they project their ideal image, and the ideal image of course knows what a controller thinks, feels and wants in advance.

Controlling behavior  also can display itself when, for example, a man treats his woman like a child. Controllers also prefer role of mentors and teachers in a relationship.

Sometimes a woman can think that a man is very caring, attentive and loving but later she finds herself under total control when her partner controller "kills" her authenticity, when he dictates what she wears, eats, with whom she communicates and so on.

and vice versa regarding a woman controller.
 

[Faux Pas]

FP:

First, it really throws me that this topic has any legs.

That aside, do you even remotely consider the possibility that the woman doesn't give a damn about the bread ration? At all?

It is a bit surprising that it has gotten some legs to this point. I am also surprised at the denial of of possessive controllers. It exists, it is real and many times is very unhealthy. As I stated before, many times it is harmless.


She may or may not give a rats patootie but, he seems to think she does and he pretty much has declared a victory because of it. That is controlling.

The guy only allows 12 grain bread in his house and follows a regimen of limited consumption. The gal is "stoic", seems to miss it but not enough to make an issue of it. THIS constitutes controlling behavior?

This is the part I don't get. Just my personal opinion but, my wife is free and more than welcome to bring anything into our home she see's fit. Food, poison or whatever it may be. Now if it were nuclear waste I would probably require further discussion on it. You as a guest in our home ED are free to bring your side arm. To deny you that right would be controlling on my part. The discussion here after all is bread, 12 grain and only in limited quantities that "he" approves of. Yes, this is controlling behavior. You can put lipstick and rouge on that pig and call it "only" bread and his right to demand what happens in his house. It is still a pig and it is controlling. Does ML have deeper seated issues? I have no idea and do not care. It isn't part of this discussion. She, according to ML is a guest in his house yet, he limits her on what she may eat in his house, thats controlling old friend.

I see/hear an eccentric who has fund someone who is hanging around, living in his home and has the means to come and go, leave permanently and is apparently in a consensual relationship. No outcry for help. No different than any other relationship.

Because, really, that's all anyone seems to have shown here. No leg chains, no economic coercion, no browbeating, just assumptions and baseless innuendo.

I haven't seen anyone deny ML's guest has a choice. She can always leave as far as I know. Would you leave over bread?

[ECOCKS]

Ed, I think you need to look for some articles on controlling behavior.
 
 We are talking about relationship.
 If a man declares that he MUST have facial hair and he doesn't care what she thinks and feels about his decision and even doesn't want to have her opinion especially if they met when he didn't have any facial hair at all and never discussed it before I would say, yes, it is a sign of his controlling behavior. (or he is just, pardon my french, a jerk)
 
 The same about a woman in a relationship.
 
 Controllers usually don't discuss, they don't negotiate, they don't want to consider an opinion of their partners, but they give an ultimatum.
 A healthy person has all four psychological function (intuiting, thinking, feeling and sensing) working, a controller has one or more function blocked, and usually it is his/her feeling function blocked. Reasons why some functions are blocked or undeveloped, especially feeling function, are rooted very often in childhood.
 
 When feeling function is blocked people are unable to feel a real sympathy for others that means they are unable to put themselves in the position of a person they try to control. More over as I mentioned before the controllers deny individuality of their victims and they assume "one mind" with their victims on whom they project their ideal image, and the ideal image of course knows what a controller thinks, feels and wants in advance.
 
 Controlling behavior  also can display itself when, for example, a man treats his woman like a child. Controllers also prefer role of mentors and teachers in a relationship.
 
 Sometimes a woman can think that a man is very caring, attentive and loving but later she finds herself under total control when her partner controller "kills" her authenticity, when he dictates what she wears, eats, with whom she communicates and so on.
 
 and vice versa regarding a woman controller.
 

 Olga, you seem oblivious that your examples have nothing to do with the situation we've been discussing.
 
 We're at the front-end of the relationship, not midways. She's free to walk in search of French garlic bread if she so desires.
 
 Certainly, if you enter into a relationship with someone and 3 years later they decide to have facial hair the rest of their life when you hate it, then sure, that person chose facial hair over your desires and is attempting to inflict something in your life which was unacceptable.
 
 That isn't even remotely this situation.
 
 It's like none of you can even remotely consider any of these women really don't regard these things as issues and accept them without any reservations.
 
 Talk about condescending and patronizing........

[OlgaH]

 Olga, you seem oblivious that your examples have nothing to do with the situation we've been discussing.
 

Ed, my examples are just an abstract reply on your post about "must have facial hair" and I started with a words "if" and "a man". I really don't know how long they are in relationship... But honestly such situation when a man with whom I just began started to build our relations would just declared about having  facial hair and would not display any interest regarding my thoughts would give me some food for other thoughts 

And as I said before such phrase as "you are free to do that anytime you want . . . in you own apartment or house"  at the beginning of a relationship or a courting process would be a red flag for me and a reason to watch for other signs that could indicate a controlling behavior.

[ECOCKS]

It is a bit surprising that it has gotten some legs to this point. I am also surprised at the denial of of possessive controllers. It exists, it is real and many times is very unhealthy. As I stated before, many times it is harmless.


She may or may not give a rats patootie but, he seems to think she does and he pretty much has declared a victory because of it. That is controlling.


This is the part I don't get. Just my personal opinion but, my wife is free and more than welcome to bring anything into our home she see's fit. Food, poison or whatever it may be. Now if it were nuclear waste I would probably require further discussion on it. You as a guest in our home ED are free to bring your side arm. To deny you that right would be controlling on my part. The discussion here after all is bread, 12 grain and only in limited quantities that "he" approves of. Yes, this is controlling behavior. You can put lipstick and rouge on that pig and call it "only" bread and his right to demand what happens in his house. It is still a pig and it is controlling. Does ML have deeper seated issues? I have no idea and do not care. It isn't part of this discussion. She, according to ML is a guest in his house yet, he limits her on what she may eat in his house, thats controlling old friend.
I haven't seen anyone deny ML's guest has a choice. She can always leave as far as I know. Would you leave over bread?

As for being a guest it would entirely depend on the circumstances by which I became one (time, finances, etc.). Would I drive to your home, ask to spend the night then fo to Kroger for $100 worth of groceries, bring them home and put them in your fridge without discussing it? Probably not.

Maybe I would do it and surprise you as a "gift" to express my appreciation for your hospitality though. If you told me that 12 grain was all you allowed, I guess I'd say "OMG, I didn't know!" then run back to Kroger to exchange it quickly.

Would I leave over bread? Well, I guess it would depend on how much I wanted that Italian Herb artisan blend.

[Gator]

Returning to "controlling" behavior, yesterday I placed some nuts and beer into the shopping cart while Galina and I were at the mega store.   I had selected pistachi, yet Galina does not like them so she replaced them with cashews, but asking me if it were okay.   

At home she hid them from her son because he has an allergy to nuts.  Periodically she would reach into the hiding place and munch on a few, saying "Gator, don't buy, I like too much.  I too big." 

Last night we were watching a film in English with Russian subtitles.  We take a break and I return with cashews and a beer.  She reaches for some cashews and I quickly grab them from the table, saying "You tell me not to buy."  I then smile and return them to the table.  She smiles and eats a few, saying "Good."

She could lose a few pounds, yet I think she is fantastic looking.   I could lose far more pounds than her, yet she will bring me a pivo even though she does not like it, preferring an apple juice mix that her father made.

This morning I was scolded for not washing my banana before peeling it.  Later I was scolded for helping her with something and in the process I placed one house shoe on the common stairwell area outside her door, requiring me  to wash the bottom of my house shoe with a wet rag she brought from the bathroom.

I am concerned!  Do I need to ask Dr. Phil if our relationship will stand the test of time?

[BillyB]

I am concerned!  Do I need to ask Dr. Phil if our relationship will stand the test of time?

No need to talk to Dr. Phil when we got plenty of experts here to help you free of charge. What bothered me the most is when your gal returned your pistachi and replaced it with cashews. That is adding insult to injury and probably was done in retaliation because you never wash your banana. Winter is coming and airfare is cheaper. Time to send her home and save a few bucks while your at it. You can thank me later.

[Muzh]

No need to talk to Dr. Phil when we got plenty of experts here to help you free of charge. What bothered me the most is when your gal returned your pistachi and replaced it with cashews. That is adding insult to injury and probably was done in retaliation because you never wash your banana. Winter is coming and airfare is cheaper. Time to send her home and save a few bucks while your at it. You can thank me later.

Absolutely.
 
Gator, what you should have done was cross her face with a backhand slap and yell, "Know your place, bitch."
 
 

[Faux Pas]

Absolutely.
 
Gator, what you should have done was cross her face with a backhand slap and yell, "Know your place, bitch."
 
 

 

[ML]

Back from our 4 day trip to Washington, DC.  Really lucked out in that 4 days of mid 60s temperatures with no rain.

Stayed at Hilton Arlington.  A fairly pricy place at $300 or so per night, but was able to get a weekend special that included breakfast (which is normally $17 per person), parking (which is $17 per day) and 8 daily Metro passes (which are $9 each).

I chose this hotel because there is a covered walkway from the hotel to the Ballston Metro on the Orange line, and a covered walkway from the hotel to the Ballston Common shopping center.  Thus, we were able to avoid using a car during the entire trip and have everything possibly needed a short secure walk away.

I am lifelong member of Smithsonian Institution and got several brochures
ahead of time so Gal could review and select what she wanted to try to see.  As many of you might know, you could spend several weeks in the various Smithsonian museums and other sites in the DC area and still never get to see everything of an interesting nature.

Gal opted for art first, so we headed to East wing of the National Gallery.  They were having a special exhibit of small French paintings.  Small but not miniature.  Many were from the various Mellon family member collections.  She was completely blown away by this rather large exhibit.  I couldn’t get over how bubbly she was and she repeated for several hours how the paintings had lifted her spirit and emotions to new highs.  Quite fun for me to be with her in such a state.  She is mostly quite pleasant and happy, but this was over the top.

Also in the East wing were special exhibits of Andy Warhol, stabiles of Alexander Calder and some modern abstract artists.  She criticized the modern stuff as ‘not really art,’ but I kept bugging her to think about what the artist was trying to convey.  So she started telling me what some of the paintings made her think about, and before long she was rattling off so many ideas that I had to start laughing.  When I pointed out to her that she really was enjoying discussing these paintings, she had to laugh also.

Gal also raved about the paintings in West wing of National Gallery.  This is a huge building and we saw about every painting there.  Talk about tired feet!!!  Especially noteworthy was the special exhibit on the ground floor of the works given by Chester Dale.  This was a huge collection itself and represented most of the acknowledged masters.

Also visited the Hirshhorn and Freer galleries, and the obligatory visit to the Air and Space Museum.  Gal was quite amazed that there were several CCCP rockets and other items there.  Wondered how we got them!  Most amazing for her were several pages from the personal diaries of some of the top Soviet space engineers detailing out the progress toward Sputnik and even plans for moon landings.

One evening at 5:30 PM closing time, we were at Air and Space when she wanted to go to Lincoln Memorial.  I knew that would be quite a hike and that the sun would disappear around 6:30 PM.  But we are both in great shape from our walking and exercise routines, so we took out at a pretty quick clip.  Made it in time while there was still enough light for pictures, etc.
We even made it past the Vietnam Memorial before darkness overtook us.

We also bought tickets for the Hop On and Off bus rides.  She really enjoyed that also and agreed with me that DC is one of the most interesting places to visit.  Time at Arlington Cemetery rounded out our daytime ventures.  Still hundreds more things to see on future trips there.  Gal had been to Hermitage in SPb and stated it paled in comparison to the Smithsonian.

We had some very nice evening meals also.  Dan and Brads at the Hilton is a good place for a fine traditional meal.  For those who want something quite different, I can recommend Fogo de Chao at 1101 Pennsylvania Avenue somewhat closer to the Capital than the White House, at corner of 12th I think it was.  This is a Brazilian restaurant with prix fixe menu ($50.) 

Each person is given a card which is green on one side and red on reverse.  Waiters continually walk around, each with a different cut of meat on skewers.  When you have green side up, they stop at your table and offer you  some.  You can say yes or no.  When you have enough on your plate, turn the red side up and they don’t stop at your table.  Later, you can turn the green side up again.  Great selection of beef, pork, lamb, and chicken.  I had already introduced her to medium rare steaks on my charcoal grill, so she is now a fan of that degree of doneness and specified it when the waiters asked.  She never believed she could eat it when I first proposed it and still will not tell her parents that she eats such!

Included in prix fixe is good salad bar, but not drinks or dessert.  Gal was appalled at the total bill, but I told her we would not eat the following week, so it would all even out.

Another evening we dined at Rose’s Mexicana (or something close to that name) on something like corner of 12th and F streets.  Also quite pricy (as are most restaurants in DC) but I wanted her to experience good Mexican food.  She wondered how so many people could afford these prices (this and Fogo were both packed).  I told her that many people here on expense accounts.  We had a great Guacamole dip at Rose’s along with some traditional entrees.  The waiter recommended Modelo beer over Corona, and we liked it.

Gal had praise for DC Metro as being quieter than the Kyiv Metro, but criticized it for longer time gaps between trains.  She really seems to enjoy driving and got a lot more time in on the Interstates during this trip.  Still worries me that she makes fairly jerky movements when changing lanes, and turning on lights or wipers can be a hair raising experience (with respect to keeping the car within a lane),  but hope that will get better in time.

[LAman]

 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
Another evening we dined at Rose’s Mexicana (or something close to that name) on something like corner of 12th and F streets.  Also quite pricy (as are most restaurants in DC) but I wanted her to experience good Mexican food.  She wondered how so many people could afford these prices (this and Fogo were both packed).  I told her that many people here on expense accounts.  We had a great Guacamole dip at Rose’s along with some traditional entrees.  The waiter recommended Modelo beer over Corona, and we liked it.

 .

Went to DC for good mexican food? Good to hear you didn't use the word 'authentic'.
 What no Taco Bell's around?? :-)
Wondering what part of Mexico Rose's menu catered to?  Chalupas?? Mexi-melts?? There wasn't a little chihahua running around was there??
I kinda of prefer mexican restaurants closer to southwest border.....

[ML]

I did a little checking:

http://rosamexicano.com/Default.aspx

Good reviews from Zagat:


"The 'Gold Standard' in 'Upscale' modern Mexican cuisine . . ."
Zagat Survey



And, it says right on their website that food is authentic Mexican . . .
so there!!   


Rosa Mexicano has become a landmark for authentic Mexican cuisine. Constantly researching new flavors and ingredients from Mexico, chefs Christian and David offer inspiring menu additions throughout the year.

- - - - -

Actually, it seems they are spread across USA with a couple of locations close to the southwest border, as you say.

One spot at 800 West Olympic Blvd., in LA and another at 8570 West Sunset Blvd., in West Hollywood.

[ML]

Gal is noticing that most of the 'Cops and Robbers' TV shows feature Russian and Ukrainian mobsters in NYC and other major cities.

Why they always showing us in such a bad light, she asks.

Because it is true, I answer.

I remember in years past how the Italians complained and even marched in protest about the Godfather image and the prevalence of Italian mobsters on the Cops and Robbers shows. 

The Italians are probably thankful for the emergence of the Russian and Ukrainian mafia in USA . . .  except for those Italians who have lost their mafia jobs to the Russians and Ukrainians.

[ML]

My Gal completed final exams for her 7 University Intensive English courses and found out she will get 6 'A's.  Hasn't heard about the 7th yet but she thinks no lower than B.

And right now, she is taking her first official TOEFL exam.  She was very worried and I had to give her some liquids and pills to stop the excess acid problem in her stomach last night and this  morning.

I didn't even want her to take the TOEFL yet, but she wanted to for the practice.

When I asked her why she was so worried, since she  plans to continue on with the Intensive English classes for another semester anyway and doesn't even need a TOEFL score at this point . . . she said because she was worried I would be disappointed with her.

I tried to convice her that I could care less about the TOEFL score she gets from today's exam . . . but doubt she feels any better about it.

[ML]

Update on the (almost) zero bread situation.

Gal is excited as he!! that she has lost enough weight that her jeans are very loose around the waist and butt.  She is wanting to buy several pairs of jeans dropping down a size.  I told her she had better wait until after the Christmas and New Year party season to see if she remains as slender.  Plus we are going to Florida for a vacation trip next week where we will pig out many times and probably even eat a lot of bread.

Interesting thing is that Gal is now telling her galfriends back in Ukraine that she knows how they can all lose a few kilos.  But when she tell them to forgo the bread . . . they totally freak out; they say it is impossible to do, etc.

Anyway, my Gal has now become a total convert (except for our holiday splurging) even though she also had thought it would be impossible to do.

[Gator]

The good times keep rolling!!!!
 
If your Florida trip comes near me, it would be splendid to meet for a libation.  Does the "no bread" guideline extend to grains used to make alcoholic beverages? 

[ML]

Gal got official grade report.  7 A grades including 3 A + plus

No, this does not prove that the UW/RW are super smart as many here claim.
It only means that this one Gal did very well in her classes.
And, she was in an intermediate group which means that even with all A grades, doesn't mean she knows it all.

And, in fact, she did not get high enough score on her first official TOEFL to qualify for Graduate school.  She is already conditionally admitted to Graduate school, subject to TOEFL achievement.

I had talked to her enough before the TOEFL to convince her that she shouldn't expect to get the required TOEFL score and that I would not care one way or the other . . . so she didn't take it too hard.

But, her A grades allow her to move into the most advanced group for Intensive English classes for the Spring semester.

Tomorrow, she tries written part of drivers license exam.  The RW in her classes took 4 tries to pass the written, so I told her not to expect to pass first time.
She could easily pass if the language were Ukrainian, but the English still throws a roadblock.

Just a few minutes ago she was asking me about two sentences in the book.
One said something about 'letting off the accelerator' and the other said 'let up on the accelerator.'  So I had to convince her that 'off' and 'up on' were the same thing.   

Gator, thanks for the invite . . . but we will be busy with the happenings and friends on the East coast of Florida.

[Donna_Pedro]

The good times keep rolling!!!!
 
  Does the "no bread" guideline extend to grains used to make alcoholic beverages?

Unfortunatelly it does. The older you are the more pleasures you have to give up not to gain weight.  I dont care about it anymore. I am looking at american women and most of them do not care, so I figured, why should I? I mean there is about 40lbs gap between pretty and unhealthy. I decided at 45yo it takes too much effort to stay in a "pretty" weight. Not worth trying. When it becomes un-healthy I will do smth about it. May be  a lipo or whatever there is.

[SMS60]

Hold on a minute.

The refined carbohydrates in bread is what packs on the weight. Vodka and whiskey contain no refined carbohydrates.

[Donna_Pedro]

Hold on a minute.

The refined carbohydrates in bread is what packs on the weight. Vodka and whiskey contain no refined carbohydrates.

I dont know why but most diets exclude alcohol.

[OlgaH]

I dont know why but most diets exclude alcohol.

because of the calories. Plus the organism processes alcohol first, so fats and carbohydrates get storied in the body.   

[Gator]

I dont know why but most diets exclude alcohol.

One shot of vodka has about half the calories of one slice of bread.  However a bottle of beer has more calories than a slice of bread.  Donna, drink your vodka straight up.  Better yet, drink mezcal as it has taste.  Just don't eat the worm.