Write Many, Visit Many - how did you work it?

[Morty]

There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way, there is only the way that works for both you and the lady in question.

Some girls are happy enough with guys who serial date, and those girls will serial date also. There are others who will 'preselect' their best possible suitor then commit an awful lot of time to them with an expectation to make it work. The former girls don't care if you wrote 1 letter or 30, they are the sort who are happy to let the PPL sites do all the work and just show up for dates with guys who arrive to see if they are interesting or not. The other type will want a lot of communication to understand you, want long Skype communication, phone calls etc. They are most likely to have their minds made up to 90 percent reserving final decision when you arrive to check you don't smell or have any weird habits. Those girls are the ones who will meet you at the airport, have you stay at their apartment, put out early and spend all their time with you when they are not working. The idea of 'chemistry' is a western concept - the really serious girls want to know your soul and have very poor opinion of girls who marry for love alone - they will marry a guy they don't love based on his good character under the belief they will find something to love about him, but they won't be with a bad character because they love him. That's reality excluding the economic migrants and GCG's.

I've met both types and girls in the middle. The first type are the sort who don't care how far you travelled. They'll meet you for 30 minutes when it suits them and if they don't like you never see you again. The second type usually considers the time she invested in you makes you hers, and meeting other women is a sign you are not serious and an act of betrayal. If you do it she'll drop you like a hot coal.

These girls aren't desperate, they aren't looking for a western guy, they are looking for mr right. DK is right - going with the expectation you can pick and choose at will is a losers charter. You need to understand your woman's attitudes and cut your cloth accordingly.

I think DK's approach is smart (in my opinion), one date is nowhere enough to see the full picture, if you dismiss early on shallow metrics you'll probably lose your ideal match. Once they best behaviour is over it is the reality that needs to hold you together, the more time you invest the faster you get to see the real person behind the facade.

You can go either way, but 'pretty doll shopping' can be a disaster for guys who don't have self control and become a dangerous ego-feeding addiction.

i guess this is difference between US and UK mentality, In the US casual dating is the norm, in the UK if you carry on with more than one girl at a time you are considered a player and usually end up with nobody.

As I said - make a judgement call on the girl and her attitudes - I know for a fact my o/h would dismiss instantly any guy doing the wmvm, she's a type 2 - if she invests time in you she is serious and expects it reciprocated. She wants the security of time to develop her feelings without competition. She's a damn good catch and knows her worth so there is no way she has to tolerate a guy who thinks he gets to choose. My ex was a type 1, she'd date anyone but put zero effort in. If it wasn't what she wanted she'd move onto the next.

The beauty of it is there is someone for everyone - there are girls who are perfect for wovo, and girls who suit wmvm, so pay your money and take your choice.

[dragonkid]

Why me? because apparently they want a western guy that's why they signed up to a foreign dating site

There are plenty of western guys on that site, some earning $150k+ a year at under 30 years old, sending pics of themselves in boats and cars, know how to make a woman feel special and unique. What is your plan? Throw £10 at them? Sorry if this sounds harsh, but i am just being realistic with you. These guys even scare the shit out of me.

Many girls will only correspond with you so long (including skype) before expecting you to visit. After a certain time they will write you off as a keyboard Romeo and move on. Other men will come up more willing to make the journey.

I been talking to this woman for a bit (see the attachments), and tried my best to tell her i want space, she is still persistent over me. Why? because i made her feel special and unique, learn that and you mastered how to get to a womans heart.

When i meet an amazing woman i will be there within a week or 2, make her feel lucky to have me in her life, and i will have the same feelings about her, because of my resilience of waiting for someone like her paid off.

you will have to make a separate journey for each back up girl unless she happens to be in the same city and get time off.

Great thing is that if you make her feel special, she will come to you.i done it to over a 100 women. Never had a problem, if they are interested in you, they will come to you. Work on yourself and you will be able to do the same, you can sit back in moscow/st petersburg and just wait for them to come to you.

[dragonkid]

if you dismiss early on shallow metrics you'll probably lose your ideal match

I nearly made the same mistake with my ex, i actually put her on the list as my backups, luckily she persisted, i got talking to her, and she became my number one girl.

Trench you might benefit from this, i have chatted to a few girls, and the best ones i came across are the ones who are in the top 5% financially in russia (around £75k+ networth). They expect nothing much from you, just a decent income, they are not desperate for a guy they have no attraction over to be sweating all over them. They can skip out candidates easily, there are plenty of rich russians (in their 40's) my ex at the time offered to give me one of her huskies puppies for free, rare breed worth £500 in russia, a lot more in UK, it had one green and blue eye. She knew i loved to get a husky, and wanted an excuse for me to remain in russia with her. I was the problem not her, she was perfect, strong views about raising kids, but would of made  a great loyal wife and caring (and very strict) mother. I was talking to a russian friend about this, and she recommended i look for women that are not financially desperate, looking back at the women i got along with, it was mostly women like this, maybe something you should keep in mind on your pursit. At the end of the day, this is a discussion forum, if you don't want to listen, that is your choice, i am sure you will do fine. we all fall over, make mistakes, a lot of the guys on here have stories a lot worse than you, but didn't let their first failure rule their future successes.

[ML]

She knew i loved to get a husky, and wanted an excuse for me to remain in russia with her.

I knew a guy who joined Air Force and spent a year or more somewhere far up in Alaska.

He was skinny when he left . . . but he came back a husky focker.

= = = = = =

Yes, yes . . . I know; but my gal is gone.

[treadmilldude]

""The idea of 'chemistry' is a western concept - the really serious girls want to know your soul and have very poor opinion of girls who marry for love alone - they will marry a guy they don't love based on his good character under the belief they will find something to love about him, but they won't be with a bad character because they love him. That's reality excluding the economic migrants and GCG's."" Huh, I learned something I did not know about FSWomen. Although, of the FSU girls I have talked with at great length, we always mutually agree about the importance of good chemistry, and that without it the relationship does not exist. I guess I have been talking to a bunch of weirdo FSU girls who mistakenly actually do believe in the importance of chemistry and have been brainwashed by Western values.

[2tallbill]

""The idea of 'chemistry' is a western concept - the really serious girls want to know your soul and have very poor opinion of girls who marry for love alone

Chemistry = mutual attraction

If you don't have mutual attraction then it doesn't matter if you both like Kurt
Vonnegut, salsa dancing, Macanese cuisine, salt water aquariums,  and yoga. 
Going after a girl who isn't initially attracted to you only works in the movies
it rarely works in real life. 

[Trenchcoat]

Chemistry = mutual attraction

If you don't have mutual attraction then it doesn't matter if you both like Kurt
Vonnegut, salsa dancing, Macanese cuisine, salt water aquariums,  and yoga. 
Going after a girl who isn't initially attracted to you only works in the movies
it rarely works in real life.

Once again, good advice 2tallbill, I agree.

[Trenchcoat]

I nearly made the same mistake with my ex, i actually put her on the list as my backups, luckily she persisted, i got talking to her, and she became my number one girl.

Trench you might benefit from this, i have chatted to a few girls, and the best ones i came across are the ones who are in the top 5% financially in russia (around £75k+ networth). They expect nothing much from you, just a decent income, they are not desperate for a guy they have no attraction over to be sweating all over them. They can skip out candidates easily, there are plenty of rich russians (in their 40's) my ex at the time offered to give me one of her huskies puppies for free, rare breed worth £500 in russia, a lot more in UK, it had one green and blue eye. She knew i loved to get a husky, and wanted an excuse for me to remain in russia with her. I was the problem not her, she was perfect, strong views about raising kids, but would of made  a great loyal wife and caring (and very strict) mother. I was talking to a russian friend about this, and she recommended i look for women that are not financially desperate, looking back at the women i got along with, it was mostly women like this, maybe something you should keep in mind on your pursit. At the end of the day, this is a discussion forum, if you don't want to listen, that is your choice, i am sure you will do fine. we all fall over, make mistakes, a lot of the guys on here have stories a lot worse than you, but didn't let their first failure rule their future successes.

I not hurting and blinded by the way the first visit went. Its just a different strategy I wish to try I cant see the point in making the same mistake twice. Like you rightly say it wasn't a bad experience. I know the other guy on here on his first visit had a no show which must be awful being stuck out there with woman you go to meet not showing up. The advice on a more wealthy woman might actually be not bad advice. Normally I couldn't care less if a girl is not wealthy though like you say if she is not in the 'what I can get' mentality then it might be a good idea. Normally I'm not keen on girls that are quite wealthy as some can be too independent for my liking but perhaps its worth not pre-judging them. Anyway, a little time yet, I'm thinking of starting to write to girls end of June/beginning July with a idea of being there end of July/beginning August (so a 3-4 week write to visit). That way I should have a good selection of girls built up that I have exchanged a few letters with beforehand so they have a bit of an idea about me before meeting me     

[dragonkid]

Normally I'm not keen on girls that are quite wealthy as some can be too independent for my liking but perhaps its worth not pre-judging them

They are very strong, i had a friend, we got talking for a week, her english was perfect , gym goer, had same humor as me, sadly she had a guy she been talking to 1.5 years. This is where it gets interesting, she turned me down to go with him, she said if she didn't like him, she would happily meet me. i told her directly, i wouldn't be someones second choice, she tried to reword but i didn't listen,she said maybe after a few more weeks she would feel differently about me, she never liked a guy so fast, but i broke it there i wasn't going to be someones backup. She met the guy, turned out he wasn't right for her. during my stay in russia, and after she tried leaving sly signs that we should meet up, but i never did and never will. If you meet a girl with self respect she will do the same with you, this girl is pretty decent, i didn't ask details but she very well off for a russian my guess probably few hundred k. Her bf is good looking guy.

Another girl i knew was from st petersburg, she has been all over the world, she was brought up like a little princess, had the best phones in school, and clothes her parents were middle class. She been to UK a few times, we hit off really well, humor was there, her main concern was sexual with me. i am not kidding, i had to drag it out of her, she wanted to see how big my.... was, we got over that hurdle  She wanted a life with me, but at the end i broke it off with her, and she was too pushy for me to come to her, and wasn't willing to wait, she wanted to drop her masters, and i wouldn't let her. She is now dating a good looking guy in Sweden, probably my age. 

My ex is the last girl, who happened to be well off also, these women are not desperate for money. don't get me wrong, i am not saying all they want is a playboy, i am not exactly a fitness model, i have abs, i work out, average looking guy. not sure why i am popular with some, i look like a muslim (got a lot of grief), yet i am okay, i focus on making a girl laugh and feel special. There is no recipe on what a girl wants, but these women date like western women, they only date guys they have a attraction for, be it physical,clothes he wears, god knows what. They are just looking for a guy that they can fall in love with, and spend their life with. You won't find them dating a guy that they have no interest in, other than his wallet.

[Trenchcoat]

Thanks DK that's handy to know. I'm not sure if I'm completely sold on dating wealthy women but it's something  to bear in mind. Dating poor Ukrainian women seems to have problems with the after your money issue for sure.

Well my current thoughts on this one is to try and squeeze 2 meets into each day. One at an 11-12am appointment and another at 14-15pm appointment  That way I can get through 8 girls in 4 days. Have a day before to aclimatise to the city alone and at least a couple after to either meet up again with the best of them or meet other women on the hoof. Each meeting day I will try and meet again in the evening with the better one out of the two. If neither ringed true then again look aroundon the hoof and ddo some entertainment stuff.

The girls are going to be chosen through the 'erection test' of looking through their photos and seeing if they give me a hard on (not necessarily based on looks mind). If they do odds are there is chemistry on my side at least which I find for me often works both ways. In that case I will message and see if she is ok to line up for a date weeding out potential would be scammers of all variety as I go.

[dragonkid]

I'm not sure if I'm completely sold on dating wealthy women but it's something  to bear in mind. Dating poor Ukrainian women seems to have problems with the after your money issue for sure.

just something to keep in mind, they aren't rich, for russia, yes. they are just not dependent on a man, and don't need to date a man twice their age. They have the freedom to choose what they want.


Your "erection" test sounds just like mine  just lately, i haven't been feeling it. I am considering on switching between Ukraine/Belarus/Russia/UK for a few years,  staying in these countries for 3 months, and spending a few weeks back home with family.  i will just be young for a few more years 

[ML]

The girls are going to be chosen through the 'erection test' of looking through their photos and seeing if they give me a hard on (not necessarily based on looks mind).

I think this is totally wrong.

Photos can be so misleading, and sex will only take up a tiny fraction of your time over the years.

My approach was to NOT look at pictures the first time around.

Set up the filters to screen for what you want in terms of:
1) City
2) Age brackets
3) Height brackets
4) Weight brackets
5) English skills
6) Education
7) Drinking
Smoking
9) Children
10) Religion
11) Other variables

Only after you come up with those who passed through those screens should you look at pictures.  And even then, don't let the pictures be a big factor . . . except for cases of just really extremely bad looking gals.

[Anotherkiwi]

I think this is totally wrong.

In a purely physical sense, I agree.  If, however, he can get a "mental" erection by looking at the qualities of each woman, then he has a better chance of making the elusive connection that he seeks.

My approach was to NOT look at pictures the first time around.

Set up the filters to screen for what you want in terms of:

[Set your own parameters here]

Exactly.

[The Natural]

If it doesn't work out, an alternative might be to Write Many, Visit Manny...........

[Trenchcoat]

In a purely physical sense, I agree.  If, however, he can get a "mental" erection by looking at the qualities of each woman, then he has a better chance of making the elusive connection that he seeks.

Exactly.

Do those qualities initiate attraction/chemistry? I doubt it, in truth a photo may not either but its a lot closer to doing so I believe. A women may have many admirable qualities but that doesn't mean I would be at all into her for those qualities. A woman with qualities is great but not necessarily a relationship, some women that have bad qualities some of them I find I may actually like or endear you to her. In any case while this strategy may not sound great to some I think its worth giving it a shot and see how it goes.

[Muzh]

If it doesn't work out, an alternative might be to Write Many, Visit Manny...........

Why would he visit the used car salesman? 

[Trenchcoat]

I think this is totally wrong.

Photos can be so misleading, and sex will only take up a tiny fraction of your time over the years.

My approach was to NOT look at pictures the first time around.

Set up the filters to screen for what you want in terms of:
1) City
2) Age brackets
3) Height brackets
4) Weight brackets
5) English skills
6) Education
7) Drinking
Smoking
9) Children
10) Religion
11) Other variables

Only after you come up with those who passed through those screens should you look at pictures.  And even then, don't let the pictures be a big factor . . . except for cases of just really extremely bad looking gals.

When we look for water we use dividing rods, same goes for finding women use your rod 

[jone]

Why would he visit the used car salesman? 

A used car salesman would be better than a vacuum cleaner salesman.  Just sayin....

[Marriedman]

I found learning the language and working in the country and then meeting the right one works best.

After knowing numerous failed couples in the USA, the common theme was men going on tours or meeting only a couple times before marriage.  Seems the men who actually worked in their spouses country and then came back to USA had in most part happy marriages.  The men on wife hunting trips seem to eventually marry and then get divorced. Some of them repeat and get divorced again.

Best advice is not to rush things and spend a lot of time together. 

[ML]

  The men on wife hunting trips seem to eventually marry and then get divorced. Some of them repeat and get divorced again.

I guess this only happens in international marriages.

[Anotherkiwi]

When we look for water we use dividing rods, same goes for finding women use your rod 

I do hope you meant "divining" rods - we're not all Moses.  However, unfortunately, my own rod did not find someone divine.