Safe travel to Konstantynivka, Donetsk oblast, Ukraine?

[JensenHealey907]

Hello all:
Has anyone here recently traveled to any cities in the Donetsk Oblast that are supposed to be Ukraine army controlled, as opposed to areas or cities around Donetsk that are supposed to be controlled by non-Ukraine army forces? My fiancee lives in Konstantynivka which is a city about 50 - 70 km north of Donetsk and according to the conflict maps I have seen, has been held by Ukraine army forces for quite some time. I am under the impression that the city has been stable for a while now.

My fiancee has repeatedly told me it is not safe for an American to visit this city and other Ukraine citizens who live in the western parts of Ukraine (Chernivtsi for instance) have told me the same thing. In fact an interpreter/guide from Chernivtsi who I have used before has refused to travel as my guide and interpreter to this area because he feels it is too dangerous and he is a Ukraine citizen.

I want to be able to go visit my fiancee and her family but as I said my fiancee has said I will be robbed, kidnapped, or injured by "dangerous characters" if I do.

I have traveled to other areas of Ukraine before such as Kharkiv, Chernivtsi, Zaporizhzia, and Kiev with no problems at all.

Specifically can I expect to encounter any sorts of Ukraine army checkpoints as I take a train journey from Kiev to Konstantynivka? If there are any sorts of checkpoints will I have issues as a non-russian speaker in passing through those checkpoints?

Any and all advice regarding an american traveling to this city or other conflict areas around Donetsk would be appreciated.

[ML]

Are you stone cold stupid ???

[JensenHealey907]

Are you stone cold stupid ???

No, I am a seasoned traveler who is looking for useful information. I hope someone who has recently traveled to or near some of the conflict areas will provide some feedback.

[krimster2]

Kostyantynivka is several miles outside of the territory of the LPR and DNR
so unless you want to visit one of these you won’t have to pass through any of their checkpoints
The Ukrainian military has a small checkpoint on the main highway to Kostyantynivka from Berestok
if they flag you, you may get searched, don't have anything that may "offend" them and you'll be fine
I have a friend who went through the checkpoint about 2 years ago, no worse than customs at the airport
today Kostyantynivka has IMHO only a slightly higher risk than say Kharkiv (but tomorrow?)
a bridge outside the city was destroyed a few years ago, so you will see signs of the war there
and if you listen, you may even hear some current signs of the war as well
you will help your chances by “blending in”, buy local clothes, don’t speak English publicly
this is what I did with my family last summer when we were in Crimea
far more dangerous IMHO being in a large American city at night

so, tell us more 'bout your bad self, what's up with the Linux Avatar?

[Boethius]

If Ukrainians are telling you don't do it, then don't do it.  You may be perfectly fine, but, why risk it?

One of the things I always trusted the better half on was what not to do in Ukraine.  Typically, these were situations such as a fight in one of the underground pedestrian passes (one involving a woman and child!) where my instinct was to stop and help - his was, "Don't interfere, keep moving."  In retrospect, he was correct, as I saw those same people a few days later, and a few months later, a local "thorn in the side" of officials was arrested when he stopped to help someone in a similar set up.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

[SteveInBoston]

In November and December last year (2018), wifey and I made 3 round trips by car from Kharkiv to Mariupol.  We always went to Slovyansk via M-03, then H-20 to Kramatorsk, then T-0514 to Pokrovsk, taking a wide birth around Donetsk, including Druzhkivka and Kostyantynivka. 

On the first trip google maps recommended taking H-20 to Kostyantynivka and then T-0504 to Pokrovsk.   But wifey excercised her VETO.  Too close to Donetsk separatist controlled area. 

If you travel by car, there is a checkpoint on H-20 on the southern edge of Kramatorsk.  They will stop you and do a cursory check on your car and go over your ID.  If you are from Donetsk, they will more than likely make you get out of your car and take you to a guard shack to run a background check.  If you are a foreigner, they will almost definitely make you get out of your car and run a background check, and ask you questions about your purpose in the area and destination.  If your fiance is with you when you travel, and you explain that you are only heading to Kostyantynivka, they may or may not give you a hard time.

I don't know where the separatist checkpoint is for Donetsk.  It may be several KM south of Kostyantynivka.  You do not want to be anywhere near that checkpoint. 

The risk in Kostantynivka is that it is somewhat in no-mans land.  Although Kostyantynivka is officially Ukrainian, I am not sure if has a strong police and goverment presence to keep foreigners safe.  There are many people from Donetsk there every day to collect government pensions and shop for groceries and goods that are in short supply in the DPR. 

Wifey's parents go to a similar town in the south, Volnovaha, to do the same.  Wifey is fine with us going to Volnovaha, but only to drive through on our way elsewhere.  She know the people there and feel it relatively safe, but will not stay there long.

I am not sure if they do military/police ID checks on the train.  Kostyantynivka is the last stop on train 124K and 001Л.  There may be passport checks at the station?  Not sure on that.


Kramatorsk or Slovyansk is a safer destination.  Can you meet your fiancee there?  Also, how did you meet?  Did you want to meet her parents?

[Hammer2722]

Dude, if your own fiance is telling you not to come, why don't you listen? Why don't you have her meet you somewhere safer?

[JensenHealey907]

I have spent time with my fiancee twice in Kharkiv and we have also traveled together as a family (she has two daughters) to Egypt twice and once to Turkey as a couple.

I want to go to Konstantynivka and meet her family for several reasons.

1. I want to surprise her by showing up at her door.
2. I want to show her and her family that I am willing to take a risk to come to spend time with her and her children.
3. The visa consultant I have hired says it will be good evidence to have proof that I have met her family in our visa application packet. I.E. take photos with her family as additional proof that our relationship is real.
4. Just because she tells me "don't do this" if I think something is important, I will do it anyway after carefully considering all of the ramifications.
5. While I have met her and her children now several times and we are engaged (I bought the ring and did the down on one knee thing), I want some direct confirmation of her life style and the things she has been telling me about her life. I see photos and videos of her and her family doing various activities there in Konstantynivka and it looks like a decent area so why is she always telling me "you can't come here. It's too dangerous"

[krimster2]

BTW, what's more common in regards to meeting a woman in the position you describe
is for the two of you to meet in Kyiv, which is simple and inexpensive her to get to
Kyiv is a much more enjoyable and pleasant location than Donbas
so I assume there's a reason other than just meeting each other that motivates you to want to go...
IMHO, if you're "savvy" and can tolerate some risk you COULD have an excellent adventure there
if she has a foreign passport, which I assume she does, an alternative is you could both go to some place like Paris or Amsterdam
which IMHO would be a FAR better place to spend time with each other...
if you don't feel romance in Paris, then what the hell is wrong with you...




 

[Hammer2722]

I have spent time with my fiancee twice in Kharkiv and we have also traveled together as a family (she has two daughters) to Egypt twice and once to Turkey as a couple.

I want to go to Konstantynivka and meet her family for several reasons.

1. I want to surprise her by showing up at her door.
2. I want to show her and her family that I am willing to take a risk to come to spend time with her and her children.
3. The visa consultant I have hired says it will be good evidence to have proof that I have met her family in our visa application packet. I.E. take photos with her family as additional proof that our relationship is real.
4. Just because she tells me "don't do this" if I think something is important, I will do it anyway after carefully considering all of the ramifications.
5. While I have met her and her children now several times and we are engaged (I bought the ring and did the down on one knee thing), I want some direct confirmation of her life style and the things she has been telling me about her life. I see photos and videos of her and her family doing various activities there in Konstantynivka and it looks like a decent area so why is she always telling me "you can't come here. It's too dangerous"

So, what would be the problem of arranging for her family to come to a big city for a few days to meet you? You could take all the photos you need for visa purposes and then after they head home, you could spend quality time with your girl.
Are you up for settting up something like this and offering to pay for their stay?


A piece of advice, don't piss off your RW. You won't like the results......If you show up to surprise her against her wishes, you will definitely find out! 

[BillyB]

I want to be able to go visit my fiancee and her family but as I said my fiancee has said I will be robbed, kidnapped, or injured by "dangerous characters" if I do.

Invite her family to meet with you somewhere else. You are a prize to some people over there. It will cost lots of American taxpayer dollars and State Department effort to negotiate if you are captured. But then again, it may cost taxpayers no more than the price of a body bag.

[JensenHealey907]

I just spent a half hour while I was eating my dinner watching a youtube video of a mass bicycle ride that took place in Konstantynivka last summer. The area looks completely normal to me.

[krimster2]

"1. I want to surprise her by showing up at her door."

please don't take offense, but this is a VERY bad idea, don't do this...
it would take too long to describe why...
my first trip to my wife's village caused her to feel ashamed of her family because they were so poor (even by Ukrainian standards)
this is common, the fear of showing one's poverty to wealthy foreigners is humiliating for Ukrainians

surprise her by organizing a trip to someplace fun for her and the children
send her the travel money to get there
you'll still get the pics for the embassy (but don't sweat the embassy interview) you don't need pics...
i don't know what you expect to find, other than that that she lives in a broken down shack
however, it would be unusual for a woman to NOT want you to come to her home and meet her family
if I were you, I'd probably go "check it out" as well
BUT don't do it unannounced
you have much. much to learn brother....
hope you have some understanding of what you're in for

"The area looks completely normal to me."


that's the thing about Ukraine, all of Ukraine
it looks normal, but it ain't

but seriously, any American large city at night will be infinitely more dangerous
and it looks normal to


a bigger problem, I see, is maybe you have some skepticism towards your fiancee?
if so, get rid of that right now
trust her 100% until the first time she lies to you...

do you have ANY experience raising children


i'm gonna take a wild guess that you're a middle aged gentleman
who got hooked on agency photos and the fantasies they produce
and now that you've started traveling down this path, you're wondering where it's gonna go...
reality, when it hits you one day, is gonna be really painful
if you REALLY want our help
then start with your story from the beginning
start with telling us about yourself...

[JensenHealey907]

surprise her by organizing a trip to someplace fun for her and the children
send her the travel money to get there

I have already done that two times to Egypt with her and her children and once for just the two of us to Turkey.

[Hammer2722]

I have already done that two times to Egypt with her and her children and once for just the two of us to Turkey.

Exactly, but not for her parents.......

[BillyB]

I just spent a half hour while I was eating my dinner watching a youtube video of a mass bicycle ride that took place in Konstantynivka last summer. The area looks completely normal to me.

The place may be fine. Getting to it could be a problem. Rebels may be controlling who comes in and out of their territory. 10 miles south of Konstantynivka is Donestsk airport. Google that and check out the images. If you find one functioning facility after all that shelling, let me know. If you go, take a postage paid, self addressed body bag so the rebels can mail you back home. They won't mail you if they have to pay for the postage.

[krimster2]

"I have already done that two times to Egypt with her and her children and once for just the two of us to Turkey."

well in that case, I'd consider going....
BUT
do not do it unannounced
tell her you're coming
i'd go for the melodramatic approach
with hand across furrowed brow, declare your undying love
and there ain't no mountain high enough, nor valley low, to keep you away
dang they love that stuff!!!!


but my dva kopec
is the problem here is not Konstantynivka
but your inexperience
do you have any idea of the challenges that lay ahead of you?
I will be honest with you
for most American men a Ukrainian woman with 2 children, would be FAR beyond their ability to handle

why do I get the feeling that there's a significant detail about yourself you don't feel comfortable in sharing with the board....
 

 

[SteveInBoston]

When we were dating, wifey sent me nice photos of her and her parents doing normal things in her home town, a district of Donetsk.  What is normal and calm for people that live there is not the same for a Western visitor.

She still owns an apartment there, has sent me photos of it.  As well as her parents house, with their nice yard and peony bushes.  I just accept her description and photos and have no desire to visit.  Hopefully one day in the future things get better, but not now.


If you trust your fiancee, then trust her and do not go to her home town.  For your safety and hers.   There are many people living in the border towns that are sympathetic to the separatists and could give you and her and her family a hard time.


Svyatohirsk could be a nice alternative.  It is a local summer resort town 30 minutes north of Slovyansk, with plenty of outdoor activities and a few nice hotels.  Roche Royal Hotel is about the nicest one, and is only about $50 per night.  You could even rent a house and invite the whole family over.


You hired someone to help with the K1 Visa?  I suggest you can do it yourself, and probably do a better job unless this person is highly recommended specifically for K1 and CR1/IR1 visas.  Photos of you with her and her children is plenty of evidence - you don't need to submit a photo with each any every family member.  I only submitted photos of me and wifey vacationing in Kyiv and Odessa - no issues whatsoever.  Check out Visajourney forums for detailed posts and instructions on K1 visas.

I hope you have permission from the father for the girls.   K1 for fiance and dependents can be very complicated, and I believe children under 16 will need permission from the other parent to emigrate.

[BillyB]

If you trust your fiancee, then trust her and do not go to her home town.  For your safety and hers.   There are many people living in the border towns that are sympathetic to the separatists and could give you and her and her family a hard time.

All someone has to do it hear some English and word gets around. Woman and her family will be the subject of gossip and harm could come her way. Some family who lost a son could be looking for some payback.

[Jamesukjames]

Things change rapidly .  Where I parked my car on the street looked normal yet 2 months before in the exact spot a 4x4 and passengers were terminated by rpg followed by ak47 .  I never speak English on the street yet I'm amazed by Americans lack of ability to  blend in with their loud voices and exagerated body movements.  Little towns you will be amazed how word gets about of the foreigner in town.  Remember normal jobs pay $300 A month so many minds are thinking about alternative income.  Sounds like you have already been the holiday provider.   It's a very good idea to know more about your woman before you marry as you may be surprised to find your woman has several man and you are about to give her half your wealth via marriage.  Good idea to  pay a detective to scope your fiance out while her guard is down.

[Jamesukjames]

Also sounds like you are free flowing with money.  Remember when you were a kid and you are a whole chocolate cake and felt sick.  That's what getting too deep too fast with a USA man feels like to a Ukrainian woman.  You haven't opened the gate yet on the rodeo. 

[msmob]

Hi, Where will you stay if you just turn up and 'surprise her'?

Some folks like to have everything ready for guests and your notion might cause embarrassment.

I like adventures, but this one seems a mite daft.

I certainly would NOT put a private dectective on the case....   


Why? Their 'investigation' could blow up in your face...


Plenty of other ways to find out if you are compatible / she is 'avaricious'.


Sorry, if this is not what you want to hear. You seem a determined bloke and I wish you the best of luck, whatever you do)

[Belvis]

Any and all advice regarding an american traveling to this city or other conflict areas around Donetsk would be appreciated.

To visit Konstantynivka is a bold idea though looks as a not well balanced one. There are different kinds of risk involved with this trip. I see two main reasons:
First, the town was couple months under separatists in 2014. Still some part of population does not like Ukraine, and they certainly will associate American guy with USA support of authorities in Kiev. Just  discomfort situations can happen in contacts with locals. I see no direct  imminent danger for life and health here.
Second, the woman may be not interested at all to expose her relations with a foreigner. Nobody wants to show the private relations in public, especially in a small depressed town.

[Jamesukjames]

Last comment was so true . Ukraine has a poor relationship with sex tourists.  The 2 women I dated in the ukraine the locals definetly viewed me as a sex tourist.. 

[msmob]

Last comment was so true . Ukraine has a poor relationship with sex tourists.  The 2 women I dated in the ukraine the locals definetly viewed me as a sex tourist..

Hmm,

Whilst that is sad ..I wonder if this is not the result of those who have gone before

[JensenHealey907]

As a follow-up to my questions about traveling to Konstantynivka, I had asked my fiancee about how normal the city looked in the youtube videos I had found. Her response was "Yes, Konstantynivka is a normal city" so I asked her if it was such a normal city why couldn't I visit her. She then sent me to following story as a reply:

"and then the city, here is a block of posts where there are military.

And the city is patrolled by the military, we recently had customer in our shop, he drove food to the shops of different cities, Konstantinovka, Gorlovka, Donetsk. And at one point, the military took him to the security post and held him in the cellar for one month, tortured him and wanted to shoot him, saying that he was a scout, he escaped with great difficulty. And you with the USA is dangerous, you understand it."

I asked if this was the Ukraine military that did this or the DNR rebels. She said it was the Ukraine military.

[krimster2]

dewd, don't be such a "wuss"
if you were Ukrainian and were visiting someone in America
would you be worried over stories regarding police shooting unarmed black men?
ok...

your GF should understand that detail doesn't apply to you...
i'm starting to think, something is not right.... just a feeling....
seriously, you want to see yourself in a dangerous city, go to Detroit or Chicago
count how many people get killed there EVERY day and check this number against Konstantynivka's
man the hell up buckaroo
and go see why your GF is hedging on your visit...

[JayH]

I asked if this was the Ukraine military that did this or the DNR rebels. She said it was the Ukraine military.

MMM  -- if you believe that  --you 110% should not even be thinking of going ANYWHERE near this area.

What is clear to me -- she does NOT WANT YOU THERE !


And a btw for others that have commented on checkpoints --the Ukrainian checkpoints further away  from the Russian occupied territories in the Donbas  are nothing compared to the actual crossing the Minsk inspired "border".
Back in 2014 /5  the Ukrainian checkpoints even hundreds of kms from the frontline were significant -- and intensified the closer to the frontline you got.

[Boethius]

your GF should understand that detail doesn't apply to you...
i'm starting to think, something is not right.... just a feeling....
seriously, you want to see yourself in a dangerous city, go to Detroit or Chicago
count how many people get killed there EVERY day and check this number against Konstantynivka's
man the hell up buckaroo
and go see why your GF is hedging on your visit...

I suspect Belvis is correct.  A foreigner there will stick out like a sore thumb.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

[krimster2]

it's ONLY his inexperience that would lead him to problems....
and if he's too inexperience to make a trip there
then how the hell does he think he'd have enough experience
to handle having a successful relationship with a Ukrainian woman and her TWO children
which is 1000 times harder than showing up at some village with your mouth hanging open in shock from what you're seeing

dewd, bottom line, you are way out of your depth ALREADY...
so c'mon now, what is it you're keeping from us, your age? or something else...

[BillyB]

As a follow-up to my questions about traveling to Konstantynivka, I had asked my fiancee about how normal the city looked in the youtube videos I had found. Her response was "Yes, Konstantynivka is a normal city" so I asked her if it was such a normal city why couldn't I visit her. She then sent me to following story as a reply:

"and then the city, here is a block of posts where there are military.

And the city is patrolled by the military, we recently had customer in our shop, he drove food to the shops of different cities, Konstantinovka, Gorlovka, Donetsk. And at one point, the military took him to the security post and held him in the cellar for one month, tortured him and wanted to shoot him, saying that he was a scout, he escaped with great difficulty. And you with the USA is dangerous, you understand it."

I asked if this was the Ukraine military that did this or the DNR rebels. She said it was the Ukraine military.

JensenHealey907, you're still interested in visiting although everybody says it can be dangerous, you're posting what she told you for us to evaluate and it's possible you're hoping somebody will tell you something you want to hear. Are you just very curious to see how she lives life and want to meet her extended family or are there trust issues? If there's trust issues, postpone the wedding until there are no trust issues.

[LAman]

What part of 'don't do this' (visit her city) do you NOT understand???

if you surprise her, it will not end well.

maybe she has local bf, maybe she doesn't want you to meet her family(embarrassed?), maybe she only wants trips with you. I can't think of one good reason she has told you yet. As far as trips, THAT is all your relationship is based on. Doesn't sound like a good foundation.


Please let us know the outcome, since it sounds like you are going to visit. Good luck!!

[krimster2]

hmmm look,
if you're really set on doing this, then here's what you do...

look at the image below
this is what google says are the fine outstanding "hotels" near your GF
they will all be very "special"
check to see if you can make a reservation online
if not, send your GF some money with Western Union to make a reservation for you
so that's where you'll stay
then find a neutral place like a restaurant for example, to meet her family
and then
get the f*&ck out of there and go someplace nicer, like hell...

[ML]

Showing up in her small home town to surprise her ??? !!!

I don't like Moby's word 'daft,' but it seems to fit here perfectly.

Don't want to seem completely negative, but . . .

this wouldn't be first time a naive USA man was dating or even engaged to a FSUW who still had a husband, or at least a local live in boyfriend.

Doesn't matter how many times the guy met the gal and even her children.

- - - - - -

On a related, but not critical to this thread, topic.

When my now wife was still in Ukraine and at her parent's home, I sent her some pics of the master bath that I had just finished off.  A lot of polished brass which looks like gold in pictures, walk in shower, Jacuzzi room, chandeliers (yes in sink area and Jacuzzi room), etc, etc.

She wrote back saying OMG, I cannot show you pics of parent's home because we are so poor and have nothing like that.

But in later phone conversations I convinced her it meant nothing to me, and that I had actually grown up in a more impoverished situation than she had (very true) and I sent her old pics to prove it.

This is not an issue between us now; but an example of how the FSUW can be very uncomfortable having you into her home or home of parents, etc.

[krimster2]

i'm REALLY challenging the original gangster, I mean original poster, to come forward
and stop hiding...

because I can tell you're hiding something
JUST LIKE you think your girl friend is trying to hide something

isn't that a weird coincidence?
so, what's going on here, or will you still ignore this question
because you want to keep hiding
the thing that you're hiding and is also what created this insecurity in you
yes, it really IS all about YOU my man...

my point to you, oh he who conceals himself
is that you are WAY too inexperienced to successfully handle a Ukrainian Woman with TWO FREAKING CHILDREN
it would be like standing on your tippy-toes and trying to touch the moon
OK?

but I can just see your brain spinning along, "what if I put on shoes with taller heels, maybe then..."
so my conclusion...

you must be one desperate "MFer"
and whatever it is that created that desperation in you
is the thing you're hiding

so please enlighten me, as I ponder the riddle of your existence as well as your dilemma
and the various ways that they are intertwined
it makes a very lovely pattern!
but unfortunately for you
you can't see it
as clearly as I can
but I think you know what I'm talking about...
surely, you must have SOME awareness...

PS

here's a reality check for you, OK?
Did you ever think that it's not that she doesn't want you to see her village...
It's that she doesn't want her village to see you, because truth be told, you're an ugly old geezer!!!
in order to balance the equation of you willing to do +2 on children, the negative on the other side of that equation must be pretty extraordinary!!!
it could for instance, mean that you are either extraordinarily ugly or extraordinarily old and poor or lower middle class
or it could mean that you have an extraordinarily lack of good judgement
likely ill educated and you probably pick your nose a lot in public as well
shall I continue...
or all ist klar herr kommissar?