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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075728 times)

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Offline Doll

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« Reply #600 on: November 23, 2014, 12:51:46 PM »

Other than the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and Russia invaded Ukraine, in what way is the comparison valid?
No

Offline Gator

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« Reply #601 on: November 23, 2014, 01:03:22 PM »
That painting was quite revealing!!

Indeed!  Painted in 1995,  two years after his father took the family to America.   It showed much hope for a new Russia and a break from its long past. 




Offline LAman

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« Reply #602 on: November 23, 2014, 01:25:54 PM »
I don't think that arming the Muhadeen was done in secret in fact Reagan had some of them to the White House,
hardly a secret. 

You've yet to answer my opinion that Russia will yet again become a collapsed economy, because of their desire to invade yet another country for the purpose of stealing their lands.

Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Offline AC

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« Reply #603 on: November 23, 2014, 01:38:39 PM »
Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.

It's no secret that the USA and the Soviet Union were in a cold war at that time.  It's no secret that most of the people of Afghanistan felt that the Soviet Union (let by Russia from the Kremlin) had invaded their country and that the Afghanistan people preferred self-determination. 

It's also no secret that V. Putin feels the collapse of the Soviet Union was a tragedy, and he's doing his best to again subjugate former members of the FSU back under control by Russian's from the Kremlin.

And it's no secret that the economic sanctions are hurting Putin's economy; as well as the double-whammy of low oil prices again. 

It's also no secret that Reagan leaned on the Saudi's back then in order to lower oil prices (to hurt the FSU) and it's possible that Obama has leaned on the Saudi's again to achieve the same results.

Putin has been deliberately provoking the West and his actions are a threat to the sanctity of sovereign borders in Europe.  Europe has a history of thousands of years of bloodshed because of such.  Europe needs a reason to stand up against Putin's aggression and it's likely that Putin will give it to them.


BTW your punctuation is certainly not perfect and the style of it makes me think that you're actually Russian.

Offline AC

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« Reply #604 on: November 23, 2014, 01:43:26 PM »
Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.

The first part I bolded was written awkwardly, like a Russian would write it.
Since you're so concerned about spelling, it's interesting that you misspelled donor.
You are clearly NOT American.

Offline LAman

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« Reply #605 on: November 23, 2014, 01:52:30 PM »
The first part I bolded was written awkwardly, like a Russian would write it.
Since you're so concerned about spelling, it's interesting that you misspelled donor.
You are clearly NOT American.

Well the guys I met when I was in Sharm El Sheikh didn't think I was American either!!! Are YOU an Arab??? :o

BTW, thanks for correcting me, I will keep a better eye on my penmanship!!

I did answer your question but you didn't answer mine....
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Offline AC

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« Reply #606 on: November 23, 2014, 02:00:15 PM »
Well the guys I met when I was in Sharm El Sheikh didn't think I was American either!!! Are YOU an Arab??? :o

BTW, thanks for correcting me, I will keep a better eye on my penmanship!!

I did answer your question but you didn't answer mine....


My answer is that it's  :offtopic:.


It's an old argument though.  A short answer would be that the USA does not arm people around the World so that we can then attempt to annex and steal their lands.  We do it so that they can self-determine their future.

A polar opposite to what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. 

Thanks for clearing up that you are an Arab from Egypt (based on your comment that is my guess, although I suppose you could also be Jewish).  It's always interesting to get the perspective from citizens from around the World about US foreign policy.

I don't set it and neither do any of the Americans here.  But again it's purpose is the polar opposite from what Russia's purpose is.  This is not to say that America has been perfect, because it's not.  There is always blowback as Gator mentioned, if we do not remain vigilant.  Evil and violence flourish around the World much easier than peace and goodness.  It takes a very strong President to have consistent and strong actions; as Obama is finding out words alone mean very little.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 02:09:25 PM by AC »

Offline LAman

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« Reply #607 on: November 23, 2014, 02:16:52 PM »

My answer is that it's  :offtopic:.


It's an old argument though.  A short answer would be that the USA does not arm people around the World so that we can then attempt to annex and steal their lands.  We do it so that they can self-determine their future.

A polar opposite to what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. 

Thanks for clearing up that you are an Arab from Egypt (based on your comment that is my guess, although I suppose you could also be Jewish).  It's always interesting to get the perspective from citizens from around the World about US foreign policy.

I don't set it and neither do any of the Americans here.  But again it's purpose is the polar opposite from what Russia's purpose is.  This is not to say that America has been perfect, because it's not.  There is always blowback as Gator mentioned, if we do not remain vigilant.  Evil and violence flourish around the World much easier than peace and goodness.  It takes a very strong President to have consistent and strong actions; as Obama is finding out words alone mean very little.

Interesting my question was   :offtopic:  for you but you did interject some  :offtopic: stuff. Oh well....
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Offline AC

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« Reply #608 on: November 23, 2014, 02:24:40 PM »
Interesting my question was   :offtopic:  for you but you did interject some  :offtopic: stuff. Oh well....

That's the nature of a forum.  This forum is dedicated to the FSU so I believe that should be the main focus.  It's my opinion that any mention of previous American foreign policy is a diversion away from what Putin is doing to Ukraine.  However I hope that I answered your question.  It very well may be that initially US policy towards Afghanistan back then when the USSR first invaded was secretive, but eventually it became well known.

But a comparison of polar opposite purposes -- an apple to orange comparison -- so not valid.

If I did not answer your questions let me know.  I will do my best to provide a better more thorough one.  Yet this thread should be about what is going on in Ukraine right now; and again I don't set US foreign policy.  You may get a much better answer by reading a biography of Brzezinski about his time in the service of US Presidential administrations during that era.

This may be helpful:

excerpt
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?


http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 02:45:08 PM by AC »

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #609 on: November 23, 2014, 03:49:39 PM »

Wings Phoenix: About that ‘high-precision weapon’ at Donetsk airport
Posted on November 23, 2014 by chervonaruta VOICES OF UKRAINE

By Wings Phoenix, (Iurii Biriukov), army volunteer and Assistant Minister to the Minister of Defense
11.22.2014
Translated by Wings Phoenix Eng and edited by Voices of Ukraine, used with permission

The strangest photo report about a cargo delivery to Donetsk airport. I’ve been carefully delaying it, for the reason that the chief specialist in this specific issue has been in the airport all this time. But today he successfully returned to base, and hence…. Hence I can write a little bit about this.

Those following the Donetsk airport may remember, that at the beginning of last week, there was a series of reports about direct hits by our artillery, about the destruction of the militants’ bomb shelter, and the wounding of the idiot in a hat. The NSDC [National Security & Defense Council] has been reporting on the usage of a new high-precision weapon. Vladislav Seleznev was saying clever stuff….. But totally did not know what was going on.

Even now I cannot tell you the details. But a part of this ‘high-precision weapon’ we delivered to the airport on November 13th, and it has been working there since. Dmitry Marchenko has done a good job as always, and then dropped off more equipment. All this process has been watched by Diana Petrenya, who was quite intrigued by it. In short, all our usual crowd was involved.

Poor stupid separatists. … Well, why did you come here? To us? To our native land? Ay-ay-ay… How inconvenient is this – crawling into a bomb shelter that is about to be blasted by a direct hit. Maybe it is time for you to get out of here, bastards?

This is just a hint, though. Because next week we are coming there again, and bringing another piece of gear. Even more high-precision.

P.S.: Yuriy Kasyanov’s drones are playing a big role in the success of the usage of these ‘high-precision weapons,’ for which he gets a big thank you!



http://maidantranslations.com/2014/11/23/wings-phoenix-about-that-high-precision-weapon-at-donetsk-airport/

Offline Doll

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« Reply #610 on: November 23, 2014, 04:14:48 PM »
Dear, I am not talking of myself- I am trying to explain why Putin is doing what he he doing. You don't feel him because of mentality
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 04:19:28 PM by Doll »

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #611 on: November 23, 2014, 04:16:20 PM »
No and I don't feel for him with my hands either..

 However my finger on a trigger would feel just fine. I've never shot a huilo before. :clapping:

Offline Doll

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« Reply #612 on: November 23, 2014, 04:22:50 PM »
No and I don't feel for him with my hands either..

 However my finger on a trigger would feel just fine. I've never shot a huilo before. :clapping:
Typical American-finger on a trigger.
So you're threatening to kill Russian president?

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #613 on: November 23, 2014, 04:24:46 PM »
Don't assume to know more than I stated.

 You realize that you just said that Putin is a huilo don't you.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 04:27:13 PM by AkMike »

Offline Doll

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« Reply #614 on: November 23, 2014, 04:31:42 PM »
Don't assume to know more than I stated.

 You realize that you just said that Putin is a huilo don't you.
I can teach you reading comprehension - the meaningful part of your post was about wanting to kill

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #615 on: November 23, 2014, 04:35:35 PM »
No where did I say kill or Putin..
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 04:44:22 PM by AnonMod »

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #616 on: November 23, 2014, 04:45:31 PM »
Former chief economic adviser of Russian President Vladimir Putin and CATO Institute member, Andrey Illarionov served as the president’s personal representative in the G-8, and is one of Russia’s most forceful and articulate advocates of an open society and democratic capitalism.

"Russian citizens have been zombied. It is a fact that many Russians citizens have been brainwashed. It is a fact of life. And it is quite striking to observe for Russian citizens how propaganda can the change the perceptions of millions of people just in front our very own eyes, in a very short period of time. Lets be clear- this (conflict) is war, in the very clear meaning of this word. All these psychological warfares are not just against Russians citizens, but against peoples all over the world. This is Mr Putins war against Ukraine as the majority of the Russian people do not support this war, This war has been in preparation for at least 11 years, I never thought these crazy decisions I heard would ever become a real war. ....and at the very end the plan is to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine in the region southeast of Kyiv. This war has been very long in preparation."

Offline sleepycat

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« Reply #617 on: November 23, 2014, 04:54:04 PM »
No need to waste a perfectly good bullet to shoot huilo!
Much more satisfying would be if the rumours about huilo having incurable cancer is true...
Let's hope his guts starts rotting from the inside out.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #618 on: November 23, 2014, 04:58:32 PM »
Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #619 on: November 23, 2014, 05:07:30 PM »
 Illarionov is a smart man to get away from the corrosive effects of the Moscow led filth and Pravda propaganda.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #620 on: November 23, 2014, 05:10:15 PM »
Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington


He is still holds a Russian passport.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Gator

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« Reply #621 on: November 23, 2014, 05:36:19 PM »
I know the history of our involvment in Afghanistan very well.  You might be surprised but it was Carter who started this involvement, at the advice of Brzizinski. 


Regarding Carter, he did not start the US covert operations.  He accelerated in July 1979 something that was started in 1973 by the CIA after a Soviet backed group gained partial power.   In the following earlier RWD post, I summarized this period, the period of growing intervention by the Soviets.   Unlike the Soviet intervention in Ukraine, the Soviets were "invited" by the Marxist Afghani government in 1978.

 

-  In a popular rebellion, President I had overthrown the monarchy in 1973.  He was  slowly turning away from communism, and  was murdered (along with his family) in 1978.   

-  A Marxist assumed the presidency (President II) and he quickly developed close relations with the Soviets and started a program of  Soviet-style reforms.  This created rebellion and President II asked for Soviet military support, yet little came. 
President II was soon overthrown and killed in 1979.   

-  The new president (President III) faced an even larger rebellion by his countrymen and was killed by the Soviets in 1979, essentially coinciding with full deployment of Soviet military forces in Afghanistan in December 1979. 

Also, between the murder of President I and President II, the US Ambassador to Afghanistan was murdered.



BTW, I was in Afghanistan in 1977 and have followed its tumultuous history, although I need a scorecard and program.   

Offline Gator

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« Reply #622 on: November 23, 2014, 05:48:10 PM »
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine. 

Offline Doll

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« Reply #623 on: November 23, 2014, 05:53:07 PM »

He is still holds a Russian passport.
so? Russia allows to keep Russian citizenship

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #624 on: November 23, 2014, 05:54:37 PM »
So even if he is in Washington, he travels to Russia frequently, on a Russian passport.  He is no less Russian than are you.  In fact, he left Russia later than you did.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

 

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