What makes you go 'all in' with a foreign man?

[Lily]

AC.

Thank you. I smiled when I saw a link to that website in your message. Do you really believe that successful people would openly show their financial status when looking for a life partner? I looked up this site before, and got the feeling that it would be for someone who is looking for a paid escort or something similar.

The 'Republican' website looks interesting, though. I'd have a question, though: how does the fact of someone being Republican relates to his or her status in life?

[Lily]

In the USA an attractive single woman who joins the Republican party and volunteers for "get out the vote drives" or goes to fundraising lunches and dinners would meet a lot of successful single men.

In Canada, too - and this was the first things that I have done since I landed in Toronto. I joined a volunteer campaign where I had to knock on the doors and to talk to people, men and women alike. The neighbourhoods where I canvassed consisted mostly of houses that are worth millions.

However, again, the fact that I have a certain purpose to talk to the people does not give me any rights to continue talking to them afterwards. More than that, how do I know that the guys who opened door to me are available?

[mroz87]

Thanks for an entertaining question. Here is something from a FSUW

He does not have to do anything in order to convince me that he is the real deal. He just has to be himself. We are attracted not to what the man is doing, but what the man actually is. We are attracted to the personality. Just be yourself and I will see, and will be able to tell whether I continue with the man or not.

1. Verifying what he actually is and where does he stand in his life. Well yes, I'd probably be interested in knowing that.

2.My means to find it out are, however, limited. Mostly I would rely on what he tells me about himself. Any independent searches would depend on his country of residence. Canada, for example, has stringent privacy laws. On a general note, a FSUW would pay attention on his level of education that is often demonstrative by the man's speech, vocabulary, choice of words, and the general manner to carry himself. And yes it would be good to see his LinkedIn profile

Regarding his alleged spending on me - no I wouldn't see it as indicator of his financial status.

3. A woman who wants to know more about the man's life is a pro-dater? Not sure that I understand the connection as well as the meaning of the word 'pro-dater'.

4. Tough question. Really. Men are sexual beings, but at the same time, there are just too many cases when sex is the only thing that the man wants from the woman. This may smell like a sex tourist, under the circumstances.

Ah....finally a reply from FSUW
I think you are coming from the perspective of identifying a decent guy, which makes you pretty legit as a woman.
My original question is more related to how can a woman tell whether the man is able to provide a certain level of material comfort, based on x, y, z....In other words how can she confirms x, y, z, so she can make the decision to go 'all in', or if she actually needs to confirm this at all. You answer this gracefully. Thank you.

A decent guy can be found everywhere, even locally, so I reckon if a woman is actively seeking a foreign mate, then material comfort is, without a doubt, part of the plan. Many women see this as a sensitive subject and actively avoid admitting to it. Personally, I don't see any conflicts between a genuine relationship and an aspiration for a better life. In reality, these two aspects can actually complement each other well, with both man and woman being committed partners.

1. Sounds reasonable.

2. Sounds reasonable too. I think you are looking for educated people, people with manner and a bit of class, not the uncouth type.

3. Question 3 does not apply to you as you choose personality over materialistic measures.

4. I think the phrase 'sex tourist' gets thrown out far too easily. A little quiz for you. Let say a man has met 10 women before meeting you. What is the first thing that comes into your mind? Is he a sex tourist? The truth is usually much less controversial. It's more like he met many women, some scammed him, some don't, nothing has developed due to incompatibility, and no sexual relationship at all. But with all the hang outs at cafes, dinners, taxis, some gifts, etc, the man has actually spent a lot of money in his pursuit. And depending on where the man comes from, the airfare can be expensive. A sex tourist is not likely to waste both time and money, and instead go straight for the kill. In my original question, I am referring to a man who comes for a second visit to meet the same woman. If I am this man, with so much already dedicated to the pursuit, and if all I got is a 'sex tourist' label, I will be sorely disappointed.
 

[vwrw]

We are attracted not to what the man is doing, but what the man actually is.

And how do you determine what the man actually is if not by observing what he is doing? Words are easy and cheap, actions require efforts.


Unlikely Lily and whoever she was referring to by "we", I give little weight to men's "promises" until they have "earned" my trust. So I would pay very close attention to every detail of what the man is doing. How does he treat other people, how he reacts to unforeseen situations, and so on... I would also tell him different stories and see his reaction to those  stories.

[Lily]

4. I think the phrase 'sex tourist' gets thrown out far too easily. A little quiz for you. Let say a man has met 10 women before meeting you. What is the first thing that comes into your mind? Is he a sex tourist? The truth is usually much less controversial. It's more like he met many women, some scammed him, some don't, nothing has developed due to incompatibility, and no sexual relationship at all. But with all the hang outs at cafes, dinners, taxis, some gifts, etc, the man has actually spent a lot of money in his pursuit. And depending on where the man comes from, the airfare can be expensive. A sex tourist is not likely to waste both time and money, and instead go straight for the kill. In my original question, I am referring to a man who comes for a second visit to meet the same woman. If I am this man, with so much already dedicated to the pursuit, and if all I got is a 'sex tourist' label, I will be sorely disappointed.

I may be using the term sex tourist incorrectly. Sorry if I expressed myself incorectly. My definition of it would be someone whose main purpose is to date, primarily intimately, as many different women as possible. This type of man may consider marriage, but again, his primary purpose would be to have sex with quality women without attachment, if it would be possible at all in his situation.

Just as an example, I heard of a man who told to his eventual remote date that as they live on a certain distance and it would be hard to commit, he would be looking for sex quickly should the sparks happen between them durint their personal meeting. Meaning, let's have sex first, and then will see, in order to establish compatibility in and out of bed. Answering your question, I essentially thought about such cases.

Having said that, I believe that the sex issues and financial issues should be discussed separately. They are different things.

Regarding your statement that a decent guy can be found everywhere,  I'd say it is not quite the reality. There were lots of discussions here that it is rather unlikely that a quality FSUW finds a suitable mate in her own coutries. 

[vwrw]

• As a lady, would you feel any need to verify his statement (like what is his job, what he owns, etc...)?
• How would you do that? Would you test him by checking whether he is opened to paying some expensive things (commensurate with the salary you think he gets based on what he told you about his job)?
• If you do that, are you not afraid he might think you are a pro-dater?
• He lives in the apartment you selected for him. He hinted it would be nice if he could have your company overnight. Would you give in? Why and why not?

1. Absolutely. I would make effort to verify his statements.
2. I would be less concerned with the man's salary and more with the man's generosity. The degree of a man's generosity may be inferred from his life history, his actions, and his reactions to what woman tells him.
3. Although I certainly would not like to make a false impression on a man and mislead him in thinking that I was a pro-dater, I would still look for ways to obtain a true picture of who the man is before I jeopardize my safety by going in a foreign country.  And I would expect the man to appreciate my efforts to guard my safety and well -being and not to be scared by it. Because if our relationship leads to a marriage, during the life together, each spouse makes many decisions that may affect the well being of both spouses. It is important that both spouses make decisions that are good for their well-being. 
4. The answer to this question very much depends of the level of trust and familiarity that people have reached up to the point. At the point, when my now husband came to visit me for first time, I knew so much about him that the degree of chemistry that we have was the only unanswered question in my mind. So I did not have any concern to take him to my apartment right from the airport.  If i did not know him as well as I did or did not trust him, I would not behave the way.

[AC]

AC.

Thank you. I smiled when I saw a link to that website in your message. Do you really believe that successful people would openly show their financial status when looking for a life partner? I looked up this site before, and got the feeling that it would be for someone who is looking for a paid escort or something similar.

The 'Republican' website looks interesting, though. I'd have a question, though: how does the fact of someone being Republican relates to his or her status in life?

Whether or not it's really true the perception is that more Republicans are wealthy.  I would say you need to go to a fundraising event such as a lunch or dinner to find out.  Knocking on doors -- you're right, your place was to be a part of the campaign, not to flirt (that doesn't stop a guy from flirting with you though if he's interested in you).  At some sort of fundraiser there are more opportunities to socialize.  I get the feeling though that the average Western man doesn't have the drive to flirt, date and get married like they do back in Russia?  WM right now tend to just want to "hang out" and see what happens?  (the lack of any real purpose is probably annoying).

Anyways I would think that a Republican fundraiser would be the place to meet some guys with a good financial standing.  Perhaps you should work on your flirting skills since the guys are often shy.   

[vwrw]

With a FSUW, it is rather unlikely that she would be aware of an opportunity for a person to became undependently wealthy. For most of us, good financial standing is earned, and goes hand by hand with good professional establishment that results from superior education. Even I who lives in the West,  familiar with how things are done here, and what opportunities do people have here, have little understanding of the ways to earn a good living outside a profession.

With all due respect, I have to disagree with this. Most people in Russia will say that good connections with important people is the way to wealth. Sayings such as " you have to have much education to earn little" are very popular. Great financial standings are earned in Russia via some corrupt and often illegal actions. Because of the job I had in Russia, I was familiar with many independently wealthy people (according to the local standards). Very few of them had a good education. I will elaborate later, i have to run to work now.


     

[Lily]

Yes vwrw, I know that this type of thinking exists among some Russian people. And yes, there is a possibility to meet FSUW who think like that. I met such women in my life, but few of them would ever envision living abroad.

Those who entertain the idea of starting their life in a new Western country, usually believe in education, individual initiative, and are determined to succeed, even through a perseverance. They are aware that success would be best achieved in a team, meaning, with a right partner   For an ambitious Western man, such women would make a great wife.
 

[Turboguy]

The 'Republican' website looks interesting, though. I'd have a question, though: how does the fact of someone being Republican relates to his or her status in life?

Although there are no hard and fast rules I think people often think of those who are members of the Republican party as being business owners, executives, white collar workers and the like and those who are members of the Democratic party as being blue collar workers, blacks and Hispanics and of course those on welfare.  Of course there are no hard and fast rules but often political beliefs of a person are similar to that of their parents so an executive whose parents were a mill worker could well be a democrat. 


The Republican party itself is often considered to be pro business and the Democratic party as pro labor. 

[calmissile]

Although there are no hard and fast rules I think people often think of those who are members of the Republican party as being business owners, executives, white collar workers and the like and those who are members of the Democratic party as being blue collar workers, blacks and Hispanics and of course those on welfare.  Of course there are no hard and fast rules but often political beliefs of a person are similar to that of their parents so an executive whose parents were a mill worker could well be a democrat. 


The Republican party itself is often considered to be pro business and the Democratic party as pro labor.

Yes Turbo, when we were growing up that is how we thought of the two political parties.  Generally it was true, the Republicans pushed legislation that was favorable to the business community and the Democrats and Labor Unions pushed for legislation that favored the hourly worker.

Over the past 40 years the parties seem to have morphed into something very different. My observation is that both houses of Congress have nearly all become a bunch of whores, that are for sale to the highest bidder.  As I recall, a Japanese official made this statement publicly many years ago and was chastised for speaking the truth.

The Democratic party is the largest disappointment for me.  The push for big government and expenditures, socialism, and the welfare state are just a few of the issues I have a problem with.  In addition, all of the special status and perks for 'minorities' is another.  I grew up in a small Oregon town and can only remember two people on 'welfare' and they were disabled and unable to work.  At the same time, a family near our home had 21 kids and the family was not on welfare.  Everyone chipped in and the family seemed to do just fine.  Have you ever noticed the Asians that come to America, crowd into a small apartment, the children are well behaved and after a few years they graduate with honors and their parents are fully integrated into society and often start businesses.......all without welfare?  IMO it is a cultural thing.  People will be lazy and not put forth the effort to succeed if there are handouts waiting for them.

I found my wife's attitude interesting when we first were talking about the possibility of marriage.  I had asked her if she foresaw working when she came to America.  Her response was "My father taught me that if you don't work, you don't eat!"  Considering her successful career in businesses I think she lives by that statement.

The Republican Party has me just as angry with them.  I hold them (and many Democrats) responsible for the offshore move of much of the manufacturing we had in America.  Moving our industries to slave labor wage countries was not good for America in general.  It meant cheaper prices for consumers, but at what price?  We cannot even maintain our military systems with 'Made in USA" parts.  It is a problem I have to deal with daily.  There are hardly any electronic parts made in the USA anymore and several countries are shipping counterfeit components to us.  It is so bad the the military and commercial aviation recently instituted special programs that are very costly to intercept and reject them.

Now that you got me spun up on the subject, I'll close with one last big annoyance about the two parties.  Due to the way the elections are financed, the legislators must spend a lot of time fundraising and taking bribes (donations) for their next campaign.  They should be spending the time doing the business of the electorate instead.  One of the highest priorities of Congress should be campaign finance reform but the silence is deafening. 

[Turboguy]

A decent guy can be found everywhere, even locally, so I reckon if a woman is actively seeking a foreign mate, then material comfort is, without a doubt, part of the plan. Many women see this as a sensitive subject and actively avoid admitting to it. Personally, I don't see any conflicts between a genuine relationship and an aspiration for a better life. In reality, these two aspects can actually complement each other well, with both man and woman being committed partners.

I have a feeling that most men feel the world is full of decent guys who would make great husbands and would provide a great life for a woman.  I think that most women feel that the world is full of wonderful, sweet, caring, attractive women who would make great wives and would make any man happy.  For most men and women finding that person is a touch challenge and most feel it is difficult and nearly impossible. 


I do think it is wise to try and verify what the truth is about someone they are interested in.  People so often tend to tell someone what they think they want to hear, rather than being honest.  Honesty is the best policy.  Lies always catch up to you.  I do think it could be hard to really learn much about someone living on the other side of the world.  With some it might be easier and with some it could be challenging.  I know my wife did a great job of learning about me in advance and remember us laughing or butts off the last night of my first visit when we talked about it. 

[Photo Guy]

A decent guy can be found everywhere, even locally, so I reckon if a woman is actively seeking a foreign mate, then material comfort is, without a doubt, part of the plan. Many women see this as a sensitive subject and actively avoid admitting to it. Personally, I don't see any conflicts between a genuine relationship and an aspiration for a better life. In reality, these two aspects can actually complement each other well, with both man and woman being committed partners.

That does make sense. And in my fiancee's case, there is the desire to get away from the sounds that keep her awake at night- shelling outside her city, mortar fire, etc. Little green men wanting to establish a New Russia in her area, regardless of what the locals want. I gladly want to remove her from those uncomfortable conditions, for a better life for herself and her toddlers. Part of the equation.

[JohnDearGreen]

At the same time, due to this lack of information, as soon as the man starts explaining that he is independently wealthy, the RW may start thinking that he is nothing else but a con artist.     

He might be.  Many of the better wealthy men are looking for ladies who do not appear to be seeking wealthy men.   A few decades ago, when c/w bars were very popular, it was not unusual to find a millionaire standing next to min-wage guy, both wearing the jeans and boots.  And of course, both were staring at the blonde dancing in the pink Wranglers.  Sometimes difficult to tell which was which.  Maybe a job valet parking cars at a popular upscale singles club would let you run into the Porsche types.

[Gator]

A decent guy can be found everywhere, even locally, so I reckon if a woman is actively seeking a foreign mate, then material comfort is, without a doubt, part of the plan.   

It varies.  The bad kind of FSUW will have material comfort at the top of their list, and they will compare material possessions with FSUW of the same ilk.  The good kind of FSUW will want to form a loving, happy family and explore opportunities to better themselves without worrying about financial instability. 

I have never met a FSUW who does not want to work.  What they do not want is for the Western man to need her money to cover basic expenses. 

Many women see this as a sensitive subject and actively avoid admitting to it.

Not my experience.  Maybe you should reexamine when you raise this question and how you phrase it. 

[Gator]

2. I would be less concerned with the man's salary and more with the man's generosity. The degree of a man's generosity may be inferred from his life history, his actions, and his reactions to what woman tells him.

NEWBIES:  Pay close attention to these words from VWRW.   

I have experienced this sentiment in almost all FSUW whom I met.  The man they most avoid is translated into English as a "greedy" man.   A FSUW would choose a man of average income who was generous vs. a wealthy man who was "greedy" and "egotistical"  (places himself first).

FSUW seemingly look for generosity signs in every action  a man takes.   For sure they subscribe to the theory that money belongs not to the person who saves the money but to the person who spends it. 

[vwrw]

Yes vwrw, I know that this type of thinking exists among some Russian people. And yes, there is a possibility to meet FSUW who think like that. I met such women in my life, but few of them would ever envision living abroad.

I am not sure what type of thinking you are referring to  since I expressed my opinion on a few topics. Probably, you refer to my views on education and if it is a reliable indicator of financial standing in Russia.
While it is certainly true that in the US, superior education often leads to a good financial standing, that is not so in Russia and the FSU countries. Most Russians highly value education because they believe that it often makes a person to become a "cultured" person (a sophisticated person). However, few Russian people believe that good education is a reliable indicator that the person will do great financially because analyzing people around them they can see that many well educated people have the same financial standing as people that are not so well educated. Disbelief in formal education as a vehicle to financial success is pervasive.  Below I attached another popular sarcasm about the power of social connections in Russia. The saying indicates that it does not matter how skillful or educated you are,  good jobs are distributed through nepotism. It says:
"No hiring"
"Jobs are passed on through inheritance."

[vwrw]

Regarding women who would envision or entertain the idea of living abroad....there are 7 Russian speaking lades( including me) in my social circle. We are so different people that if we were not immigrants and living in the same community, unlikely we were friends. 2 of us have had university education  in Russia and were determined to get education here. Another 5 ladies have school diploma or two years professional college and 4 of them have little desire to attend school again.  So 70% of Russian speaking ladies in my community do not really fit your description of those who are supposed to entertain the idea of starting their life in a new Western country.

Those who entertain the idea of starting their life in a new Western country, usually believe in education, individual initiative, and are determined to succeed, even through a perseverance. 

[vwrw]

I would divide the women entertaining the idea of starting a new life abroad in two category: 1- women who, for some reasons, could not build their lives in their home country and 2-women who could do just fine in their country, but they have decided not to stay there because they were sick of some realities in their country.
The strategies that that women employ during their pursuit of a relationship with a man abroad vary depending on the category they belong to.  The first category of the women unlikely will verify anything the men tell them. If they like what the men tell them, they will take it . The second group of women will find a way to verify that the man they have selected is actually a good partner for them.     

[BorisS]

He might be.  Many of the better wealthy men are looking for ladies who do not appear to be seeking wealthy men.   A few decades ago, when c/w bars were very popular, it was not unusual to find a millionaire standing next to min-wage guy, both wearing the jeans and boots.  And of course, both were staring at the blonde dancing in the pink Wranglers.  Sometimes difficult to tell which was which.  Maybe a job valet parking cars at a popular upscale singles club would let you run into the Porsche types.

They all are looking for wealthy men...when the opportunity presents itself. Some just look harder and are more honest than others...:-))))

[vwrw]

My original question is more related to how can a woman tell whether the man is able to provide a certain level of material comfort, based on x, y, z....In other words how can she confirms x, y, z, so she can make the decision to go 'all in', or if she actually needs to confirm this at all. You answer this gracefully. Thank you.

In my opinion, the best way to determine if a man is able to be a good provider is to evaluate if he has certain characteristics and attitudes that are common among financially successful people. For example, such people often are opportunity oriented. Analyzing a situation they would focus on  factors that are likely to help them accomplish their goals and how to obtain what they lack for success. Losers, on the other hand, focus on factors indicating that they cannot accomplish their goals and quit. So you look on the man and see what tendencies he exhibits.


It would be much easier to answer your question if you are more specific about what factors you mean by x,y,z. For example,  if the x factor is your income, she would be able to confirm it when you send to her two years of your tax returns. It is a requirement for the fiancee visa.

[Lily]

Is the K-1 requirement to send the tax returns to the visa office, or to the alleged fiancee personally?

[AC]

AC.

Thank you. I smiled when I saw a link to that website in your message. Do you really believe that successful people would openly show their financial status when looking for a life partner?

Believe it or not yes I do.  Clearly it's going to come up eventually as that is a big part of this discussion, and you've just asked a question about it.  This is a way to get it out in the open early.  I don't know about the rest of your post; I did not get the feeling you got.  I am sure that is possible on this website, and many others as well.  It's up to each individual user to filter out those who are not desireable for themselves.

[Lily]

Believe it or not yes I do.  Clearly it's going to come up eventually as that is a big part of this discussion, and you've just asked a question about it.  This is a way to get it out in the open early.  I don't know about the rest of your post; I did not get the feeling you got.  I am sure that is possible on this website, and many others as well.  It's up to each individual user to filter out those who are not desireable for themselves.

I mean, wouldn't it be disadvantageous for a wealthy man to disclose his wealth, or at least to state that he is well off, right in his dating profile, just for every interested female seeker to see? 

For example, let's pretend that I am a VP of a corporation and make about 400-500k annually. I am interested to find a life partner. Would it be wise for me to register on the millionairematch and to write in my profile something like, I can buy whatever for my money but cannot buy happiness, and look for a woman who can make me happy, bla bla? I guess not.

[Turboguy]

Is the K-1 requirement to send the tax returns to the visa office, or to the alleged fiancee personally?

Lily, the tax returns are sent to the fiancee and she takes them with her to the interview.