What makes you go 'all in' with a foreign man?

[Turboguy]

I mean, wouldn't it be disadvantageous for a wealthy man to disclose his wealth, or at least to state that he is well off, right in his dating profile, just for every interested female seeker to see? 

For example, let's pretend that I am a VP of a corporation and make about 400-500k annually. I am interested to find a life partner. Would it be wise for me to register on the millionairematch and to write in my profile something like, I can buy whatever for my money but cannot buy happiness, and look for a woman who can make me happy, bla bla? I guess not.

I have seen people do that.  One of the guys on one of my tours had a photo book with him that he showed all the girls he was interested in.  It included photos of a room that he said were the maid's quarters, photos of his private plane and landing strip.  Photos of his Rolls.  photos of his vineyards and more.  I to think the Rolls was rather old as was the plane.  The last I knew he was still single despite his efforts to find the mother of his future children that he had never had during the other 65 years of his life. 


I have also seen it the other way.  From what I was told, former RWD member Wiz when visited by former RWD member Mirror was shown a different smaller, less expensive house that he also owned so she would not think he was rich.  \


I think if someone was rich and was too open about it the women he ended up with would not be ones he would really want.


If someone wasn't rich and pretended to be he would likely end up divorced in a very short time.   

[Lily]

Lily, the tax returns are sent to the fiancee and she takes them with her to the interview.

In which case a fiancee may re-consider marriage to the guy if his tax returns would not quite be to her liking 

[Lily]

I have seen people do that.  One of the guys on one of my tours had a photo book with him that he showed all the girls he was interested in.  It included photos of a room that he said were the maid's quarters, photos of his private plane and landing strip.  Photos of his Rolls.  photos of his vineyards and more.  I to think the Rolls was rather old as was the plane.  The last I knew he was still single despite his efforts to find the mother of his future children that he had never had during the other 65 years of his life. 

Do you by chance mean this guy? 







other photos here http://www.dezinfo.net/foto/15138-odinokij-princ-ishhet-svoyu-zolushku-26-foto.html

[Turboguy]

In my opinion, the best way to determine if a man is able to be a good provider is to evaluate if he has certain characteristics and attitudes that are common among financially successful people. For example, such people often are opportunity oriented. Analyzing a situation they would focus on  factors that are likely to help them accomplish their goals and how to obtain what they lack for success. Losers, on the other hand, focus on factors indicating that they cannot accomplish their goals and quit. So you look on the man and see what tendencies he exhibits.

I think you are very correct on this and that it is a wise observation.   I think successful people do tend to think about the opportunity and then find ways to deal with the problems where others tend to see the problems as the reason they can't succeed and go through life saying,  "If only"


I do wonder if searching for a RW might not have a tendency to filter out the "If only" people.  Those who tend to think about the problems probably say, Wow, the women there seem great if only there wasn't so much cost to visiting them and if only there was not a language and cultural difference and if only my job gave me more vacation time.  They may write a few women on free sites and be the armchair romantics we talk about where those who are prone to solve problems find ways to get vacation time and deal with the problems.


I do think your comment was one of the major contributors to success along with the willingness to sacrifice and work hard to reach their goals and not just be willing to work a 40 hour work week and take what comes.   

[Turboguy]

In which case a fiancee may re-consider marriage to the guy if his tax returns would not quite be to her liking 

One of the problems with that is the economic differences between the FSU and the USA.  Someone here making $ 35,000 a year may seem rich to someone living in Lugansk making a tenth of that where it is an income people can survive on here but not exactly the income that would make someone rich. 


Different guy and actually the photos are a little more impressive.

[JohnDearGreen]

“Forbeses” (as in Forbes rich list) and the “tiolki,” [cattle]. It’s a buyer’s market: there are dozens, no, hundreds, of “cattle” for every “Forbes.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/11/russia-s-gold-digger-academy.html

[Lily]

 Someone here making $ 35,000 a year may seem rich to someone living in Lugansk making a tenth of that where it is an income people can survive on here but not exactly the income that would make someone rich. 

I think that by now, almost all women know that the living conditions in which those 35k are earned are very different. Those who try to directly transfer the U.S. salaried to their Russian conditions are almost an exception. An average FSUW is educated enough in order to understand that.

[Gator]

Believe it or not yes I do.  Clearly it's going to come up eventually as that is a big part of this discussion, and you've just asked a question about it. 

Personally, I suggest that money discussions be deferred until the relationship is well founded.  Green bait can attract the wrong fish. 

Also, there are two big problems disclosing hard data about financial status:

1.   Unless the RW can trust you based on the depth of your relationship, any significant wealth would be viewed with skepticism.  Why?  RW are natural skeptics because dishonesty and deceit are not uncommon in the FSU. 

2.   Even if a RW trusts you, FSU and Western economies differ in regard to debt.   Debt is a "no no" in the FSU, except some FSU citizens are now getting car loans (at a very high interest rate).  In contrast, Americans are up to their ass in debt, yet at low interest rates.  I am not sure most RW can interpret a balance sheet to decide about a man's financial security.

Rather than hard data, most FSUW will depend upon their intuition to decide about a man's capacity to provide a trouble-free life in the West.   VWRW mentioned she would look for certain characteristics, and I can imagine they include confidence, decisiveness, problem solving, self-reliance, maturity, etc.  (the characteristics of a "strong man").   Do not forget that a man's attentiveness to a woman and his generosity are very important.

During my first trip to my wife's city, she had me meet many of her friends and family.  While the meetings were friendly, there were serious moments  when I obviously was being placed under the microscope.   We never discussed money.  That came very late, well after marriage was planned.  Of course, when she visited me on a tourist visa, she could see firsthand how I lived. 

[BorisS]

Personally, I suggest that money discussions be deferred until the relationship is well founded.  Green bait can attract the wrong fish. 

Also, there are two big problems disclosing hard data about financial status:

1.   Unless the RW can trust you based on the depth of your relationship, any significant wealth would be viewed with skepticism.  Why?  RW are natural skeptics because dishonesty and deceit are not uncommon in the FSU. 

2.   Even if a RW trusts you, FSU and Western economies differ in regard to debt.   Debt is a "no no" in the FSU, except some FSU citizens are now getting car loans (at a very high interest rate).  In contrast, Americans are up to their ass in debt, yet at low interest rates.  I am not sure most RW can interpret a balance sheet to decide about a man's financial security.

Rather than hard data, most FSUW will depend upon their intuition to decide about a man's capacity to provide a trouble-free life in the West.   VWRW mentioned she would look for certain characteristics, and I can imagine they include confidence, decisiveness, problem solving, self-reliance, maturity, etc.  (the characteristics of a "strong man").   Do not forget that a man's attentiveness to a woman and his generosity are very important.

During my first trip to my wife's city, she had me meet many of her friends and family.  While the meetings were friendly, there were serious moments  when I obviously was being placed under the microscope.   We never discussed money.  That came very late, well after marriage was planned.  Of course, when she visited me on a tourist visa, she could see firsthand how I lived.

Money never came up for us either, Gator. But family members did show concern. Her uncle warned her mother that Ukrainian women were being imported into Western countries as unwilling prostitutes and that Tanya should be careful. Her mother replied that Tanya was too old for such nonsense (She was in her late 30's when we were married) :-)))


Some women get fooled but with most of the couples I know the man is on solid financial footing. It would only be possible to fool a women for the short term. It doesn't take long for a RW to get the lay of the land.

[calmissile]

I actually changed my mind somewhat about being asked early on about 'wealth'.  It was a big put-down for me initially, but have since learned a little more about their motives...

1.  Good FSUW are primarily concerned about stability in the family and how she will be treated by the man.  Being rich isn't what's on their minds.  Having a husband to support while he stays drunk seems to be more of their concern.   

2.  If she has children, she is also very interested in having a good father for her children.

I don't think it's much different meeting someone locally.  The only difference is that someone local can see how you live and someone thousands of miles away has to inquire.

[BorisS]

Do you by chance mean this guy? 







other photos here http://www.dezinfo.net/foto/15138-odinokij-princ-ishhet-svoyu-zolushku-26-foto.html

I remember seeing these photos years ago....He looks like a great catch...:-)))))

[AC]

I mean, wouldn't it be disadvantageous for a wealthy man to disclose his wealth, or at least to state that he is well off, right in his dating profile, just for every interested female seeker to see? 

For example, let's pretend that I am a VP of a corporation and make about 400-500k annually. I am interested to find a life partner. Would it be wise for me to register on the millionairematch and to write in my profile something like, I can buy whatever for my money but cannot buy happiness, and look for a woman who can make me happy, bla bla? I guess not.

I think you are missing the point and the way you put it doesn't sound at all as what I am alluding to.  Let's say our hero makes 100K but has a home paid for.  He also wants a wife who is in his income bracket.  Now do you see the point of it?  It's a Western thing which I don't think you really get yet.  Many Western women make a good living -- they want to be with a guy who also does.  Many Western men don't want a gold-digger, they want a woman with similar education and wealth.  Hope that helps.

[Lily]

I think you are missing the point and the way you put it doesn't sound at all as what I am alluding to.  Let's say our hero makes 100K but has a home paid for.  He also wants a wife who is in his income bracket.  Now do you see the point of it?  It's a Western thing which I don't think you really get yet.  Many Western women make a good living -- they want to be with a guy who also does.  Many Western men don't want a gold-digger, they want a woman with similar education and wealth.  Hope that helps.

May be I don't quite understand what do you mean to say, yes. What I was telling was that the dating sites that declare from the start that they are made for super rich people, like the quoted millionairesmatch, would not attract genuine partner seekers. That was my point.
Other than that, I think I know what you are talking about. Yes people want someone equal to themselves. Or a bit better if they are lucky

[Gator]

Let's say our hero makes 100K but has a home paid for.  He also wants a wife who is in his income bracket.

I thought this discussion is about AM-RW relationships.  Looking for such in the FSU is looking for a needle in a haystack.  Even if our hero did find such a woman, the question remains of whether her income producing skills are readily transferable to his country.   

So our hero looking in the FSU will consider non-financial information - the woman's education, personality, professional/business accomplishments, etc. 

Many Western men don't want a gold-digger, they want a woman with similar education and wealth.  Hope that helps.

A sure way to attract a gold digger camouflaged in "traditional family values" clothing is to disclose wealth early. 

[AC]

I thought this discussion is about AM-RW relationships.  Looking for such in the FSU is looking for a needle in a haystack.  Even if our hero did find such a woman, the question remains of whether her income producing skills are readily transferable to his country.   

So our hero looking in the FSU will consider non-financial information - the woman's education, personality, professional/business accomplishments, etc. 

And then because of the inherent large-gap between a Western mans income and that of a woman from the former Soviet Union, he also opens himself up to a gold-digger.

I think you are right for FSUW still over there.  I also agree with what you wrote on this upthread.  It was only a feeble attempt to answer a question by Lily.

[AC]

May be I don't quite understand what do you mean to say, yes. What I was telling was that the dating sites that declare from the start that they are made for super rich people, like the quoted millionairesmatch, would not attract genuine partner seekers. That was my point.
Other than that, I think I know what you are talking about. Yes people want someone equal to themselves. Or a bit better if they are lucky

I guess you would never know unless you registered there and tried it out.  Perhaps you will be the first "genuine partner seeker" on the site, and you will get an overwhelming response.   

(report back here as to the quality of responses -- it might be interesting)

[AC]

Proof that people with money often have bad taste...

[Patagonie]

I have seen people do that.  One of the guys on one of my tours had a photo book with him that he showed all the girls he was interested in.  It included photos of a room that he said were the maid's quarters, photos of his private plane and landing strip.  Photos of his Rolls.  photos of his vineyards and more.  I to think the Rolls was rather old as was the plane.  The last I knew he was still single despite his efforts to find the mother of his future children that he had never had during the other 65 years of his life. 


I have also seen it the other way.  From what I was told, former RWD member Wiz when visited by former RWD member Mirror was shown a different smaller, less expensive house that he also owned so she would not think he was rich.  \
+3


I think if someone was rich and was too open about it the women he ended up with would not be ones he would really want.


If someone wasn't rich and pretended to be he would likely end up divorced in a very short time.

[Turboguy]

The 'Republican' website looks interesting, though. I'd have a question, though: how does the fact of someone being Republican relates to his or her status in life?

I just read a joke on another forum that reminded me of what we had talked about here.


This was a news report from the elections that were just held.


"The democratic candidates started of with a sizable lead but then the Republicans got off work."

[mroz87]

I may be using the term sex tourist incorrectly. Sorry if I expressed myself incorectly. My definition of it would be someone whose main purpose is to date, primarily intimately, as many different women as possible. This type of man may consider marriage, but again, his primary purpose would be to have sex with quality women without attachment, if it would be possible at all in his situation.

Just as an example, I heard of a man who told to his eventual remote date that as they live on a certain distance and it would be hard to commit, he would be looking for sex quickly should the sparks happen between them durint their personal meeting. Meaning, let's have sex first, and then will see, in order to establish compatibility in and out of bed. Answering your question, I essentially thought about such cases.

Having said that, I believe that the sex issues and financial issues should be discussed separately. They are different things.

Regarding your statement that a decent guy can be found everywhere,  I'd say it is not quite the reality. There were lots of discussions here that it is rather unlikely that a quality FSUW finds a suitable mate in her own coutries.

Thanks for the clarification. While your logic is sound, in reality most suspicions about whether a guy is 'sex tourist' are simply conjectures based on the woman's half-information spiced up by her own opinions. Another issue I see is the double standard where women become paranoid about not 'giving in / losing out' to a foreign man, whereas during courtship with local men, the same stringent caution is not being exercised. It seems like when caution is genuinely needed, young women simply fell prey. When I was in Ukraine, I couldn't help but noticed a large number of young single mums and young divorcees on Mamba. You can say these experienced women become cautious after learning their lessons, but the fact is the younger women (no children and not divorced) also practice the same double standard.

By the way, the whole notion of 'sex tourist' is deplorable, not because men are having sex during travel, but the term seems to be discriminatory to men who are considered 'not worth it'. Because as I can see, hot hunks with 6 packs can go around having consensual sex and yet he is considered an 'alpha male'. During college years I have seen women willingly want to get ****** by these hunks because it is cool to do it with a handsome guy. The same women would also go around saying guys are disloyal, and treat women as play things. Go figure! I am wondering, if FSUW will sort of give the handsome guys the 'out of jail' card, but criminalize the not so good looking average dude. We all know the honest answer to this question, don't we? 

Another thing I would like to point out is that not all foreign men are the same. Those from Western Europe can hop on the plane on Friday night, and hop off on Sunday night. For them, sex tourism can actually be a part-time hobby. This is not applicable to those who have to endure full day flights and thousands of dollars in airfares. Men from Australia, NZ, US and Canada are a different bunch.

Decent guys are really everywhere, but that will depend on what definition you have for 'decent'. And how about the definition of a 'quality FSUW'? No offence implied, but your statement bears a terrifying resemblance of the western women who think decent average western men are not good enough, because they, the western women are of quality.

[mroz87]

1. Absolutely. I would make effort to verify his statements.
2. I would be less concerned with the man's salary and more with the man's generosity. The degree of a man's generosity may be inferred from his life history, his actions, and his reactions to what woman tells him.
3. Although I certainly would not like to make a false impression on a man and mislead him in thinking that I was a pro-dater, I would still look for ways to obtain a true picture of who the man is before I jeopardize my safety by going in a foreign country.  And I would expect the man to appreciate my efforts to guard my safety and well -being and not to be scared by it. Because if our relationship leads to a marriage, during the life together, each spouse makes many decisions that may affect the well being of both spouses. It is important that both spouses make decisions that are good for their well-being. 
4. The answer to this question very much depends of the level of trust and familiarity that people have reached up to the point. At the point, when my now husband came to visit me for first time, I knew so much about him that the degree of chemistry that we have was the only unanswered question in my mind. So I did not have any concern to take him to my apartment right from the airport.  If i did not know him as well as I did or did not trust him, I would not behave the way.

1. Very understandable. I would want my woman to verify my statements too. As you have pointed out in point 3, this is important.

2. Salary and generosity...They are the two sides of the same coin. You have not elaborated further so I consider this a grey area. The problem is, from the man's perspective, the woman is either testing him, or she is simply a scammer or pro-dater. When this happens, the man is left with the option of should he just blows this few hundred dollars to find out. Few hundred dollars is not a huge sum, but it is when it is simply a test. With the amount of scamming in FSU, all the testing costs can add up faster than the man can mend his broken heart. Do you only consider the man generous when he spends unnecessarily? (Ps. it's not a generosity test if the item / service to be bought is a necessity, or of average value). Have you ever considered your man might have been cleaned out by 10 scammers / pro-daters before meeting you? Or let's just say that this is his problem and he should be wealthy enough to play this high stake poker game. In other words, generosity = rich.

4. Good for you and your man. That is how a normal working relationship should look like. Unfortunately, some men have to answer the generosity test without this point 4 happening.

[mroz87]

I have a feeling that most men feel the world is full of decent guys who would make great husbands and would provide a great life for a woman.  I think that most women feel that the world is full of wonderful, sweet, caring, attractive women who would make great wives and would make any man happy.  For most men and women finding that person is a touch challenge and most feel it is difficult and nearly impossible. 


I do think it is wise to try and verify what the truth is about someone they are interested in.  People so often tend to tell someone what they think they want to hear, rather than being honest.  Honesty is the best policy.  Lies always catch up to you.  I do think it could be hard to really learn much about someone living on the other side of the world.  With some it might be easier and with some it could be challenging.  I know my wife did a great job of learning about me in advance and remember us laughing or butts off the last night of my first visit when we talked about it.

Turboguy, you are getting philosophical coming off as someone who have been away from the battlefield for quite a while, seeing that you have been married for 5-10 years. Unfortunately, in the battlefield things are still rather primitive:

Guy's perspective: Decent girl = Hot, plesant behaviour
Girl's perspective: Decent guy = Hot, rich, or both; must be at his prime age (25 - 40).

There is however a second paradigm for FSUW, which makes FSUW so sought after even to this day, given all the scams and risk. The paradigm I am talking about, is that some FSUW are willing to opt for a relationship with minimal love, but financially secure (the preferred term is strong man). The same paradigm also applies to Asian women which is why you see the same high demand from western men. The way I see it, a man is considered decent if being with him, there will be tangible improvements to the women's life.

[mroz87]

That does make sense. And in my fiancee's case, there is the desire to get away from the sounds that keep her awake at night- shelling outside her city, mortar fire, etc. Little green men wanting to establish a New Russia in her area, regardless of what the locals want. I gladly want to remove her from those uncomfortable conditions, for a better life for herself and her toddlers. Part of the equation.

Photo Guy, I wish you success. This is not something that can be easily pulled off. I take it that you have seen her face to face before, and are communicating with her directly.

[Boethius]

This is not applicable to those who have to endure full day flights and thousands of dollars in airfares. Men from Australia, NZ, US and Canada are a different bunch.

Untrue.  A sex tourist is a sex tourist, no matter where he lives.

[mroz87]

Untrue.  A sex tourist is a sex tourist, no matter where he lives.

Not saying there are no sex tourists from these countries.

All I am saying is, for most men from these countries, Ukraine is a very bad choice for sex tourism, except the wealthy and retired. I am speaking on behalf of the normal ordinary working folks from these countries, who would already have a hard time getting days off work, let alone wasting time on sex tourism in Ukraine. If sex tourism is what these men seek, there are better closer alternatives, and that without involving expensive airfares and hotel cost, all added could be equivalent to many trysts. Actually, some of these countries have prostitution legalised locally.

The main issue is some FSUW like to diss out the sex tourist label without considering that chances are, 8 out of the 10 who got this label are genuine men being put off from intimacy, yet they want the man to prove his 'generosity' during the start of the relationship. From a risk-reward point of view, this is absolute garbage for the genuine men. But of course, exceptions for the genuine handsome men, only issue is many FSUW will later find out they are handsome but probably not genuine

Let's face it, most of the genuine guys who go down this route will not be the male model types; or he was, but now he is 50 years old