Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: bizpat72 on August 24, 2015, 07:07:13 PM
-
Elena’s Models 2 Weeks Report
Following some readings I did on this forum, a personal review of different FSU women dating sites and suggestions from Jone, I decided to purchase 3 months Gold membership to Elena’s Model. Even though I’m light years away from the knowledge of certain Hero Members here, I thought I’d share my experience to help future members of the forum to start their journey in the world of Former Soviet Union Women.
A few facts about me:
- I’m 43 but apparently look early 30s --thanks to genetics I guess
- I have kids in shared custody
- I don’t speak/read Russian
- I have never been to Russia/Ukraine
- I know (or knew) very little about their culture
- I learned about the FSUW about 2 months ago because an agency opened in Montreal and got lots of news coverage
- I was about to signup with the agency and stumbled here through a Google search
- Most of what I learned about FSUW (other than they are very beautiful), I learned from here browsing and reading through forum posts.
Elena’s is no POF.
I’ve been on Match, POF, Tinder and one thing that struck me from the get go is how many requests (better known as EOIs) I was receiving each day on Elena’s even though I use the same set of pictures as I used on the homeland dating sites. I had many dates from Match and POF but it’s a lot of work to stand out from the crowd. On Elena’s, I got EOIs from women ranging between 22 up to 46 y-o. So I got hooked quickly, good thing I was on vacation these last 2 weeks.
Through all the EOI’s I responded positively and the ones I sent and got a Yes, I initiated conversation with 10 women that I identified based on a these criteria:
- Age range between 32-42
- Has children (if has children = no then Age greater or equal 40)
- Profile description must capture me and be longer than one sentence
Some conversations lasted 1 message, others 2, sometimes the language barrier is so difficult that you can barely hold a conversation. I had the pleasant surprise to get 2 long messages in Russian and man… Google Translate does an amazing job! It’s surprising.
Out of the 10 initial conversations, I am now down to 2 and this is where it gets interesting. For some reason, Russia seems to be my Friend. The two women I correspond with now are from the Moscow area and correspond easily in English. In our messages I find that it’s really important to ask them about their life in Russia, their kids, family, they are very proud of their country’s history and themselves as women who (in my age range) went through the USSR to Russia transition. They will ask you very subtle and direct questions to figure out if your values correspond to their strong family values. They know what they want and if you make a faux pas or try to be or act as someone you are not, they’ll figure it out.
After 3-4 days of correspondence on Elena’s I wanted to leave the messaging context of Elena’s so we went to personal email and I’m even already friend on Facebook with one of them. The one I’m FB friend with, we’ve started using Messenger yesterday and oh my God, this has taken our connection to a whole new level. In my quest to making sure I’m not talking to a dude, we talked about her work so she sent me some photos of her work and I was able to find her Google+ page where her portfolio is and I was able to correlate pictures from her portfolio to a bakeries’ website in Moscow. Also her FB profile has tons of photos, I probably saw hundred+ photos of her so I feel confident I’m talking to the right person. And it’s crazy how we connect and think alike on so many things; I don’t know this feels very different, refreshing, fun and exciting at the same time. The other woman, she has a verified profile at Elena’s (had to send a copy of her passport), very different in our emails. She seems very romantic and talks a lot about the life she’s dreaming of. She tells me a lot about Crimea, her family, Russian authors, history, it’s very interesting.
I don’t want to turn this into a who’s going to be voted off the island contest but on the flip side, this is no Tinder’s girl next door. I will keep corresponding with both for a week or two and then I will have to concentrate on one. I have decided to stay away from Elena’s for a little while because I simply don’t want them to see that I go to the site while we are having those very intense conversations.
For newbies, my 2 weeks experience can be resumed by:
- Give Elena’s a try, I think it’s worth it
- Be authentic and speak from the heart
- If in business we say location, location, location, with FSU women it’s Family, Family, Family. You’ll figure it out quickly.
- Show interests and ask questions about their culture, country and family
- Be wise with the age gap even if you get requests from relatively young women
- Do your homework, read forums here and pay attention to what some Hero members have to say.
- Last but not the least, on Elena’s specifically, manage your 50 contacts limit wisely. Don’t go nuts emailing every girl who sent you an EOI.
Thanks for reading.
-
I will keep corresponding with both for a week or two and then I will have to concentrate on one.
It doesn't hurt to keep contacting other ladies at Elena's and don't dump the women unless you're sure they're are incompatible or you decided to visit your favorite. You can spend weeks communicating with your favorite and then she disappears. Happens to lots of men. She may find a local man, she may have had another foreigner beat you to the punch or she simply decided you're not for her. Get the lady's phone number. You will know how interested she's in you based off her tone of voice and her willingness to let you call her anytime.
-
Great advice, Billy
If you start this process, be prepared to meet someone that you would be afraid to 'lose' ...I have beaten a long-term keyboard romeo to the 'punch' - as I got on the plane within two weeks.
-
Great advice, Billy
If you start this process, be prepared to meet someone that you would be afraid to 'lose' ...I have beaten a long-term keyboard romeo to the 'punch' - as I got on the plane within two weeks.
That feels like the greatest threat, that there is someone else out there ready to beat me to the punch. >:( I just began about a month ago, and had thought to go in summer. But man... so many sharks in the waters. But I guess just look ahead, hope something lasting comes out of it. I have one girl in Kiev who I cannot believe I am hitting it off with thus far, though its far from closed.
-
It's the same for us guys as it is for the girls. Dating/writing multiple people at the same time and can disappear off the market at any time.
Agree with the others, if you are still in the initial writing phase then I would not commit to just one. That will most likely end in loneliness for you. Also, some relationships never progress past mere friendship.
However, don't get me wrong. You should only be in constant contact with girls you see a future with. If you don't see yourself with one due to <insert big flaw> then I wouldn't take it further as it is just false hope and a waste of time for her.
Depending on how well your first meet goes you may be able to make her exclusive (without a marriage proposal) - you better be too or there will be broken hearts. ;)
-
What ever site/method you use to locate a lady I have two pieces of advice for you. 1) Skype or an equivalent. You will get get a much better sense of the person with video calls than phone or messaging. 2) Get on a plane. You can exchange all the get to know each other messages etc till the cows come home and it is all of little value until you're sitting next to each other. You can spend months communicating and find each other all kinds of wonderful and fascinating and that can all evaporate in seconds to minutes when you meet in person if that "chemistry" isn't there. Been there done that, don't recommend it. Good luck to you.
-
I disagree...
In the start...
I think it would be good to just spend some time talking to a few girls..
Ask questions and learn about the country and culture..
So you have a base to compare..
-
That feels like the greatest threat, that there is someone else out there ready to beat me to the punch. >:( I just began about a month ago, and had thought to go in summer. But man... so many sharks in the waters. But I guess just look ahead, hope something lasting comes out of it. I have one girl in Kiev who I cannot believe I am hitting it off with thus far, though its far from closed.
If you seriously suggesting you'll be another six months before getting on that plane then you'll be VERY lucky if you'll be exclusive to her or even a ranking candidate by then - sorry ... but W. Europeans can do a long weekend and go to the top of the queue.. :(
He who hesitates is lost ..this is a race. The first guy who shows he is serious will topple a keyboard romeo nearly every time
-
One month. I always gave myself one month to visit someone that I was talking to. If I couldn't get my butt on a plane within one month, then I guess the woman just wasn't important enough to me.
Others will say differently, but it seemed to be a good benchmark for me.
-
If you seriously suggesting you'll be another six months before getting on that plane then you'll be VERY lucky if you'll be exclusive to her or even a ranking candidate by then - sorry ... but W. Europeans can do a long weekend and go to the top of the queue.. :(
He who hesitates is lost ..this is a race. The first guy who shows he is serious will topple a keyboard romeo nearly every time
I second this, thinking myself of taking a couple of weeks holiday out there this Spring-Summer, probably St. Petersburg, maybe Moscow, just costs a few hundred pounds from the UK. So figure I can roll in a bit of touristy stuff into the picture and check out the women along the way - in bars, restaurants , wherever - just a case of seeing one that gives you a bit of notice. Would be handy if anyone knows a decent walk-in dating agency where I could meet potential women also? Not really into all the dating tour stuff, a little costly and got too much of singles night look to them which I've had enough of over here.
Used to use this site a few years back when I thought I would give the correspondence thing a go to see how it would work out. Correspondence with girl in the Ukraine, letters seemed genuine enough - replied to most of my questions with down to earth responses, a bit before facebook etc was real big so no real way of checking online. Got to the point where we did a skype through the agency - she seemed nice and interested, attracted. Sent her some flowers which she wrote that she liked. Then started to correspond through Email (to make sure it wasn't an agency string along) - but it was at his point contact dried up - guessing either the agency caught on/was a string along or she went with someone else, etc. For me it was not really an expensive experience or mistake so I was not really put out but just goes to show you can put in time and some small expenditure and end up with a no go even without the outright scams that ask for money.
So in all honesty I would rather just go over without trying to line up dates through correspondence. I kind of find it a bit weird writing letters to someone first before meeting/seeing them - sure it can happen, but as said above there's no telling if there's chemistry there. Better I think to meet the person first and make quicker progress face to face, being able to read each other. After all its the guy who's there with face to face where the relationships tend to happen not some message printout from some dude who she knows she'll probably never meet - that's my thoughts anyway.
-
I second this, thinking myself of taking a couple of weeks holiday out there this Spring-Summer, probably St. Petersburg, maybe Moscow, just costs a few hundred pounds from the UK. So figure I can roll in a bit of touristy stuff into the picture and check out the women along the way - in bars, restaurants , wherever - just a case of seeing one that gives you a bit of notice. Would be handy if anyone knows a decent walk-in dating agency where I could meet potential women also? Not really into all the dating tour stuff, a little costly and got too much of singles night look to them which I've had enough of over here.
Used to use this site a few years back when I thought I would give the correspondence thing a go to see how it would work out. Correspondence with girl in the Ukraine, letters seemed genuine enough - replied to most of my questions with down to earth responses, a bit before facebook etc was real big so no real way of checking online. Got to the point where we did a Skype through the agency - she seemed nice and interested, attracted. Sent her some flowers which she wrote that she liked. Then started to correspond through Email (to make sure it wasn't an agency string along) - but it was at his point contact dried up - guessing either the agency caught on/was a string along or she went with someone else, etc. For me it was not really an expensive experience or mistake so I was not really put out but just goes to show you can put in time and some small expenditure and end up with a no go even without the outright scams that ask for money.
So in all honesty I would rather just go over without trying to line up dates through correspondence. I kind of find it a bit weird writing letters to someone first before meeting/seeing them - sure it can happen, but as said above there's no telling if there's chemistry there. Better I think to meet the person first and make quicker progress face to face, being able to read each other. After all its the guy who's there with face to face where the relationships tend to happen not some message printout from some dude who she knows she'll probably never meet - that's my thoughts anyway.
You need to do what you're comfortable with. So you corresponded with one woman from Ukraine for sometime before it "dried up"? Why did it dry up, you couldn't keep her attention? How long was the communication from start to finish? I ask because it matters. I notice from your profile here that you've never made a trip. You need to understand most men who write and contemplate meeting an FSUW never make a single trip. Quite frankly it sounds as though the lady from Ukraine was serious and you were not.
Showing up in-country and shooting from the hip can be done but you should understand, it isn't easy. Much harder than doing it in your own country. Unless of course you have movie star looks, the body of a sculptured Greek god and more importantly, you speak the language. If you're real good at it at home, you can expect some moderate success at it in Russia.
However, if you want to maximize your time to be spent with quality ladies I would advise you to write and get acquainted with some before departure. The ladies you meet in bars in Moscow will be of the same cloth of the ladies you meet in bars in London.
The best advice I can offer you is to do lots of reading at RWD
-
Quite frankly it sounds as though the lady from Ukraine was serious....
That's what I thought, I too was serious and would have gone out to the Ukraine. Got a pic back with the roses she seemed pleased. Not really sure what happened whether her family found out about it, got cold feet, etc. Anyway, when I tried contacting her through my email the frequency of email got a lot less, eventually got a reply back but seemed to be some confusion - not sure if was difficult for her to access Email or what. Well, her pic was taken down from the website and all emails died up so was a no go in the end. A bit of a pain but like I said wasn't real serious as had not got to that point. I guess I was corresponding for a number of weeks, not that long perhaps 2-3 months in all. Like I say in the skype chat she seemed quite smiley, happy, pleased to see me, attracted even. Though of course it is said that many women keep several men on the go until a deal is done so perhaps someone ultimately beat me to it - I think that may have been the thoughts on this forum at the time. Seems reasonable - though perhaps she just had a change of mind - don't think it was a case of a scammer as why take down her pick.
Anyway to present day - yeah know what you mean with learning the language, in all honesty I'm unlikely to master it but a bit of basic understanding may help. I really don't see the point in correspondence though, not only for the point above but that you only really get to know someone when you're with them. Otherwise its like shooting blind folded, lots of correspondence can pass but no hits. For me its the chemistry, eye contact and social interaction that build a relationship not a handful of letters with expressions that anyone could write. I'm not saying its a cert that I'll find someone but id I can get a holiday in with it then its a more pleasant way to do it I think.
-
She was waiting for you to say 'I will be there next week'. You, sir, are the classic keyboard Romeo. Let me be more specific. There is a time for a first date, there is a time for a first kiss, there is a time for sleeping together for the first time. You fell down on the first date time. Especially with FSU women, once they have it in their mind that you are not serious, you have 'HOT POTATO' written all over you.
FSU women are more attuned to this. You showed romance with the flowers but did not follow it up with the grand gesture. I lost a woman I was dating because I was two weeks late in arriving for a planned trip. My delay was work related, but she interpreted it to mean that I was not serious enough about her. (She told her friend that she thought I was playing the field.)
And I know it has been said before but "the Ukraine" was an old Soviet Republic. Ukraine is a country.
-
That feels like the greatest threat, that there is someone else out there ready to beat me to the punch. >:( I just began about a month ago, and had thought to go in summer. But man... so many sharks in the waters. But I guess just look ahead, hope something lasting comes out of it. I have one girl in Kiev who I cannot believe I am hitting it off with thus far, though its far from closed.
Tough love warning: Ariovistus, I don't know you so don't take this personally.
I am going to write my advice generally so that others reading this thread can
learn what to do/what not to do.
FSUW as a general rule don't go for indecisive pussies. So make sure you don't
come off as an indecisive pussy. FSUW don't do vague, so don't do vague. If
you want an FSUW the best thing to be is a man of action. You need to tell a
girl that you are arriving in February and that she needs to wear panties to the
airport that will look good hanging from the lamp of your apartment.
Visit one type blueprint
1. Don't write anybody until 2-3 months before you plan to travel.
2. Write hundreds of girls and ruthlessly narrow it down to one.
3. Get on a plane and go see her. Then romance her, seduce her and
sweep her off her feet.
4. ALWAYS HAVE A BACK UP PLAN
5. Never recycle girls
6. Rinse and repeat as necessary
Visit many blueprint
1. Don't write anybody until 1-2 weeks before you travel
2. Ask a zillion hot girls to meet you for tea
3. Ruthlessly reject any girl who isn't the future Mrs__________ your name here
4. Never recycle girls
5. Once you find Mrs ___________ your name here, pursue her
6. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
Udachi!
Bill
-
That's what I thought, I too was serious and would have gone out to the Ukraine. Got a pic back with the roses she seemed pleased. Not really sure what happened whether her family found out about it, got cold feet, etc. Anyway, when I tried contacting her through my email the frequency of email got a lot less, eventually got a reply back but seemed to be some confusion - not sure if was difficult for her to access Email or what. Well, her pic was taken down from the website and all emails died up so was a no go in the end. A bit of a pain but like I said wasn't real serious as had not got to that point. I guess I was corresponding for a number of weeks, not that long perhaps 2-3 months in all. Like I say in the skype chat she seemed quite smiley, happy, pleased to see me, attracted even. Though of course it is said that many women keep several men on the go until a deal is done so perhaps someone ultimately beat me to it - I think that may have been the thoughts on this forum at the time. Seems reasonable - though perhaps she just had a change of mind - don't think it was a case of a scammer as why take down her pick.
Pretty much as I thought. She gave up on you. Likely found another or, didn't and you were the 4-5th man that wasted her time and she gave up altogether. Even in your description of the events there was no sense of urgency, romancing, wine dining and 69'ing. Sending flowers is a nice gesture but it is only a gesture. Trench, you need to actually be "sincere" in your search. At least sincere enough to put an honest effort into if you expect to get anything out of it.
Anyway to present day - yeah know what you mean with learning the language, in all honesty I'm unlikely to master it but a bit of basic understanding may help. I really don't see the point in correspondence though, not only for the point above but that you only really get to know someone when you're with them. Otherwise its like shooting blind folded, lots of correspondence can pass but no hits. For me its the chemistry, eye contact and social interaction that build a relationship not a handful of letters with expressions that anyone could write. I'm not saying its a cert that I'll find someone but id I can get a holiday in with it then its a more pleasant way to do it I think.
You in all likelihood will never learn the language. You'd do well to accept that right now. At one time I probably knew 150 Russian words. Truth be known now I couldn't muster 30. It's a tough language. You might be different but chances are, you are not any different than the other 95% of guys that grace this forum who never learn more than a few words.
Here's the deal, you're in England and it's a short trip for you but you need to ask yourself do you realistically have as much time as it will take to meet and romance women in the FSU. If you are going in to "wing it" by meeting them on the streets and in restaurants (stay away from the bars), it's going to take plenty of trips and plenty of time.
Yes, you can save much of that time through online introductions. You can weed out or include a number of women you've never even met through emails, phone calls and Skype. Much can be achieved before ever setting foot on the ground. From your few posts so far you've taken a very lazy approach to meeting women. Expect that your results will be lazy in return. FSUW are no different in the fact that they do expect to be romanced. You will have to work for that relationship much harder than you have at home. It will require your full attention and all of your time.
The times have changed, dramatically. These women have options and "you" likely wouldn't rate in the top 5. They'll no longer fawn all over you and drop to the floor with their legs in the air at a chance to meet you. The onus for a meeting is on you. All they are doing now at this point, is listening.
-
Pretty much as I thought. She gave up on you. Likely found another or, didn't and you were the 4-5th man that wasted her time and she gave up altogether. Even in your description of the events there was no sense of urgency, romancing, wine dining and 69'ing. Sending flowers is a nice gesture but it is only a gesture. Trench, you need to actually be "sincere" in your search. At least sincere enough to put an honest effort into if you expect to get anything out of it.
You in all likelihood will never learn the language. You'd do well to accept that right now. At one time I probably knew 150 Russian words. Truth be known now I couldn't muster 30. It's a tough language. You might be different but chances are, you are not any different than the other 95% of guys that grace this forum who never learn more than a few words.
Here's the deal, you're in England and it's a short trip for you but you need to ask yourself do you realistically have as much time as it will take to meet and romance women in the FSU. If you are going in to "wing it" by meeting them on the streets and in restaurants (stay away from the bars), it's going to take plenty of trips and plenty of time.
Yes, you can save much of that time through online introductions. You can weed out or include a number of women you've never even met through emails, phone calls and Skype. Much can be achieved before ever setting foot on the ground. From your few posts so far you've taken a very lazy approach to meeting women. Expect that your results will be lazy in return. FSUW are no different in the fact that they do expect to be romanced. You will have to work for that relationship much harder than you have at home. It will require your full attention and all of your time.
The times have changed, dramatically. These women have options and "you" likely wouldn't rate in the top 5. They'll no longer fawn all over you and drop to the floor with their legs in the air at a chance to meet you. The onus for a meeting is on you. All they are doing now at this point, is listening.
Yeah would love them to fall to the floor with there legs in the air :D So did you manage to accomplish it? I see from you're profile it says your married. For sure, I don't expect to get to know Russian that fluent it would probably be like my French and German - a few textbook favorites the 'I would like...' p&q's just to get me the basics. Beyond that like you say its not likely to get further, but I'll need her to speak a reasonable amount of English at least to make the going easier. Hence why I'm guessing the larger Cities might suit me more.
What would you suggest I do in terms of effort towards a Russian lady? It may seem lazy just to turn up there but I really want to go on chemistry/feeling rather than firing blanks though correspondence. While my idea of a holiday approach may not seem serious I am indeed. Most of the girls in the UK following their US counterparts for some peculiar reason seem to be in a rush to make themselves as obese as can be. Now my diet has never been what I would have thought exactly healthy, yet I manage to keep to around 13.5-14 stone at about 6ft height. So they must be literally going out to deliberately wreck their bodies through massive overeating. Point being is that of the few decent girls that remain, well demand for them is high so I wouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to get a girl in the UK either. I have come to the point where I am literally willing to go the extra distance etc to achieve a relationship with a Russian girl.
-
Seen pics of FP's wife. She's a beauty.
In our circle of friends in Chelyabinsk, most of my fiancee's friends speak good English. Some don't but only because they were lazy in school.
Trenchcoat, you have lot of reading to do. You're not even on the right planet yet.
-
Yeah would love them to fall to the floor with there legs in the air :D So did you manage to accomplish it? I see from you're profile it says your married. For sure, I don't expect to get to know Russian that fluent it would probably be like my French and German - a few textbook favorites the 'I would like...' p&q's just to get me the basics. Beyond that like you say its not likely to get further, but I'll need her to speak a reasonable amount of English at least to make the going easier. Hence why I'm guessing the larger Cities might suit me more.
Yeah in a perfect world maybe but, it is what it is. That just doesn't happen for 99% of us unless you believe in fairies and leprechauns. If you plan on going you'll want to learn as much of the language as you can. Look around online you can find some free lessons that will help you master most of what you'll need to know rudimentary "get by". Having an understanding of the cyrillic alphabet would also be useful. If you are flying by the seat of your pants and meet women when you get there, how do you plan to distinguish which women know some English and which don't? An alternative is to hire a full time interpreter for another 70-80 bucks a day expense for your trip. For this approach I would recommend the bigger cities
What would you suggest I do in terms of effort towards a Russian lady? It may seem lazy just to turn up there but I really want to go on chemistry/feeling rather than firing blanks though correspondence. While my idea of a holiday approach may not seem serious I am indeed. Most of the girls in the UK following their US counterparts for some peculiar reason seem to be in a rush to make themselves as obese as can be. Now my diet has never been what I would have thought exactly healthy, yet I manage to keep to around 13.5-14 stone at about 6ft height. So they must be literally going out to deliberately wreck their bodies through massive overeating. Point being is that of the few decent girls that remain, well demand for them is high so I wouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to get a girl in the UK either. I have come to the point where I am literally willing to go the extra distance etc to achieve a relationship with a Russian girl.
I would suggest that if you are serious about finding a FSUW for a possible relationship that you get started writing/communicating with some now, before you go. You write/talk/skype and you plan a trip. Initially, you're not asking these women to marry you, date you or even like you. You're only asking to get acquainted to see if there is any possible chemistry. And yes, chemistry can develop before you meet. That doesn't guarantee any chemistry when you meet but, if your looking for guarantees, go buy a new set of tires.
Demand is high for a quality woman (or man) anywhere. You'll have to be at the top of your game in Russia to get a quality woman, too. Nothing worth having is going to be easy but, you can do this. Make the sacrifice and do what you need to do to get yourself in front of these women. Be sincere that you want to meet as soon as possible and follow through.
Forget that the home babes are too fat for me approach. That only reflects bad on you. Realistically they're not and further is, you just can't get one to date you that you can stand. The weight of the local gals, alcoholics, drug addicted, lazy, won't work, 5 lousy kids, 4 exes yadda yadda yadda. We've heard all of that before. Many of the guys here will agree with you and that sentiment 100% but, the truth is, you're not what the hot, quality local babes are after or you wouldn't be here. Let's call it what it is. You can do this, find a good FSUW who would love to have a life with you but, you have to be a good WM. Are you up for it?
-
Seen pics of FP's wife. She's a beauty.
In our circle of friends in Chelyabinsk, most of my fiancee's friends speak good English. Some don't but only because they were lazy in school.
Trenchcoat, you have lot of reading to do. You're not even on the right planet yet.
Thanks jone. Yeah she's pretty hot but, I'm biased. In my wife's home city or rather in her's and my circle only a very few speak English. I often feel like the village idiot when in Tomsk
-
Speaking of people not speaking or speaking another language..
just because they can't or don't speak does not mean they do not understand a language...
-
Speaking of people not speaking or speaking another language..
just because they can't or don't speak does not mean they do not understand a language...
Really? How many languages that you don't speak do you understand?
-
I would suggest that if you are serious about finding a FSUW for a possible relationship that you get started writing/communicating with some now, before you go. You write/talk/skype and you plan a trip. Initially, you're not asking these women to marry you, date you or even like you. You're only asking to get acquainted to see if there is any possible chemistry. And yes, chemistry can develop before you meet. That doesn't guarantee any chemistry when you meet but, if your looking for guarantees, go buy a new set of tires.
Just a thought here and a part of my reason for thinking of a just fly in approach, if I were to use internet/agencies how would I avoid the ones that are just in it for there day job? Scam I guess in the lighter sense of the word, those where writing to western men or getting the agency to do it on their behalf is just a form of income - whether for monthly fee or credit approach. Sure you can skype but there is no certainty she is not on the same deal - in it for her cut. I hear that there are loads of women out there that do just that - use it as their second job. Now I know you said there are no guarantees and of course I could cast a wide net when/if doing this, but still it appears a pretty random approach. Hence my thought on the fly in approach to just avoid all that as often it appears from many on here to turn up a dud.
-
Just a thought here and a part of my reason for thinking of a just fly in approach, if I were to use internet/agencies how would I avoid the ones that are just in it for there day job? Scam I guess in the lighter sense of the word, those where writing to western men or getting the agency to do it on their behalf is just a form of income - whether for monthly fee or credit approach.
You don't. Those gals (or guys) are going to be there whether you are or not. Chances are you can't avoid them. Just learn to recognize them. You just have to recognize and realize when you smell a turd in pretty window dressing, move on. Don't apologize for it and don't feel bad about it. Budding relationships whether they are in person or online still have to have a degree of trust and is a 50/50 partnership. Without elevating your paranoia into high gear but keeping it easily accessible so that it does speak to you, explore each lady your interested in. If you're adapt to thinking with your dick, you'll probably get scammed at some point. If you do think with your dick, stop it or prepare to pay the price.
Sure you can skype but there is no certainty she is not on the same deal - in it for her cut. I hear that there are loads of women out there that do just that - use it as their second job. Now I know you said there are no guarantees and of course I could cast a wide net when/if doing this, but still it appears a pretty random approach. Hence my thought on the fly in approach to just avoid all that as often it appears from many on here to turn up a dud.
Listen to me closely, NEVER, never, ever, ever join an agency that is a pay by the letter or a pay by the communication. Never pay to Skype with a woman, never pay for her personal contact information and stay far away from any agency that desires to stay squarely between you and the woman for any length of time, ANY length of time. You'll want an agency like Elena's that has open communication directly with the women.
It is a random approach. How much more random can it get than the two of you perusing internet web pages and looking at profiles that interest you? What's wrong with that? Does it offend your sensibilities? If so, this isn't for you. Chances are great you will turn up many duds. Chances are great you will also be a dud for a number of women. You have to understand this early communication guarantees nothing. It's merely a start, an avenue to getting to know each other. That is something you do not have if you just show up and start from scratch.
You'll likely meet many online that interest you and then that interest can wane in a few weeks or even days. It works the same way for the women, too. Yes, they are likely to be communication with numerous men at the same time as you, why shouldn't they? You don't owned them, you have no claims to them. You're not picking out a puppy at a pet store. You are merely provided with the details of a few women with whom you might wish to open up some discussion, or not.
Your idea of the "fly in" approach is a bit disturbing. Do you have the idea that because you arrive in St Petersburg every female libido within 2 city blocks of you is going to heighten, women drop what they are doing to rush to you to hump your leg? I don't want to pee on your parade but, it ain't happening. When you contact women online they have at least had thoughts or discussions of a relationship with a foreign guy. Most women you meet on the street, restaurants or bars would never even consider it. Sure your winning smile and charming personality could win them over but, how has that worked out for you in UK?
-
Trenchcoat -
You are way over thinking this. Go to Lucky Lovers and Elena's and pay the subscription fee. Find a bunch of gals you like and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not scammers.
After talking to them for a short time, go to their city. Have a backup plan in the event your date(s) don't work out.
This isn't a huge commitment for you. If it is, then you should stay home. For tips on what to do on your trip, read the forum.
-
You in all likelihood will never learn the language. You'd do well to accept that right now. At one time I probably knew 150 Russian words. Truth be known now I couldn't muster 30. It's a tough language. You might be different but chances are, you are not any different than the other 95% of guys that grace this forum who never learn more than a few words.
I probably know 450 words and I know guys who are nearly fluent. I wouldn't
discourage a guy learning some Russian if for no other reason than it will keep
them busy and off the naughty midget porn sites.
-
Bill,
We all thought you were learning your 450 words so you could talk to the midget porn girls from Russia.......
-
Trenchcoat -
You are way over thinking this. Go to Lucky Lovers and Elena's and pay the subscription fee. Find a bunch of gals you like and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not scammers.
This is good advice. The best way to get dumped that I know of is accusing a good girl
of being a scammer. Most girls aren't scammers and you will destroy a potential relationship
very quickly by setting up tests for girls and other stupid things.
Scammers give themselves away very quickly. Scamming is a numbers game. They need
to write hundreds of men to find just a few to scam. They find it difficult to answer questions in letters and certainly don't want to talk on the phone or Skype. Hairy Boris only wants
to tell you about making a comfy home and tasty meals, and to send you sexy photos,
he won't want you to hear his voice. He doesn't have time you are one of hundreds,
he just wants your money. A scammer will ignore your questions or make excuses.
A good girl will want to talk to you on the phone and see what you look like on Skype.
She might be shy about her English but she wants to see you and hear what you
sound like. A good girl will figure out a way to talk to you, a sketchy girl will make
excuses. If a girl starts with the excuses then dump her.
NOTE: NOT recommend it for newbies, this can get you keeeled!!!
I have teased and joked with girls about everything, it's part of my personality and
part of the reason that girls like me. After I get to know a girl I will tell jokes and stories
and tease them. The girl in Dnepropetrovsk would laugh until she snorted loudly when
I would pretend that she might have poisoned my soup or that I would send her
back home the first time my dinner was cold.
I had found some photos of seismic measuring devices that all fit in a case for
traveling, I think it was for the oil industry. I sent the photo to a girl who I was
talking to by email asking her the best method to send it to her city before a trip.
She asked what the equipment was and what I needed it for. So I told her that it was
special popka measuring equipment that I needed to determine if hers was the right
size. She laughed and couldn't speak for at least two minutes.
Udachi!
Bill
-
Bill,
We all thought you were learning your 450 words so you could talk to the midget porn girls from Russia.......
You got me mixed up, I was the guy learning the words to talk to the Russian girls from
the golden shower feet fetish site.
-
Just one word, Da, will get you a long ways with the FSU gals.
-
Listen to me closely, NEVER, never, ever, ever join an agency that is a pay by the letter or a pay by the communication. Never pay to Skype with a woman, never pay for her personal contact information and stay far away from any agency that desires to stay squarely between you and the woman for any length of time, ANY length of time. You'll want an agency like Elena's that has open communication directly with the women.
For sure, but isn't a monthly subscription just another way of collecting money similar to credits? I mean I've been to the Elena site and a lot if not most of the women on there look like models - or at the very least got professional photographers on the job dressed up and the rest. Maybe not as much as some of the websites but still a lot of swim suit shots, classy dress poses and I guess very much posed professionally thought out. Makes me wonder if they have just had there profiles stuck up there to get people to sign up for the quarter/half yearly fee. Looked at Lucky lovers site also, profiles perhaps look more everyday, but less glamorous then Elena's model site so perhaps less eye candy though even still. Does Elena's models really have that many legit girls do you think?
-
For sure, but isn't a monthly subscription just another way of collecting money similar to credits?
Not even close to similar.
With monthly pay, it is ONE fixed amount.
For that payment, you have unlimited contact with EVERY person on the website.
What's so hard to understand about that ???
-
Not even close to similar.
With monthly pay, it is ONE fixed amount.
For that payment, you have unlimited contact with EVERY person on the website.
What's so hard to understand about that ???
Well take Elena's models, its $129 for 3 months minimum, so I guess about £90 UK money. Then its more money for the subscription level up which is $259 for 3 months minimum. Seeing that you only get her contact details and skype at platinum level its likely to be this to get anywhere, unless you can arrange to skype/contact details without the agency getting in the way. Now the money in itself is not my greatest concern, more the likelyhood of a load of fake or day job profiles put on there to lure guys in for the quarterly/half yearly subscriptions. i.e because credits cost less but mount up as the women gets men on the hook whereas quarterly fee men still need to be got on the hook to keep getting the subscription rate in.
Lucky lovers seem to do a cheaper monthly subscription but there site seems a lot less active/on there - perhaps as its global, more genuine/realistic? remains to be seen, but in a way less visually enticing initially.
-
I probably know 450 words and I know guys who are nearly fluent. I wouldn't
discourage a guy learning some Russian if for no other reason than it will keep
them busy and off the naughty midget porn sites.
450 words would make you well above average Bill. Actually my 150 probably made me well above average too. I haven't discouraged the chap from anything. I said in all likelihood and, I believe that to be true. I myself as an example set out to learn the language. I had no doubts that I would and I didn't, I failed. It's a damn hard and confusing language.
Hey, if he wants to learn the language he has my blessing but I am all about letting a fellow know what he's in for, knowwhaddameen?
-
For sure, but isn't a monthly subscription just another way of collecting money similar to credits? I mean I've been to the Elena site and a lot if not most of the women on there look like models - or at the very least got professional photographers on the job dressed up and the rest. Maybe not as much as some of the websites but still a lot of swim suit shots, classy dress poses and I guess very much posed professionally thought out. Makes me wonder if they have just had there profiles stuck up there to get people to sign up for the quarter/half yearly fee. Looked at Lucky lovers site also, profiles perhaps look more everyday, but less glamorous then Elena's model site so perhaps less eye candy though even still. Does Elena's models really have that many legit girls do you think?
No it isn't. Most of them anyway. They operate on a completely different model. You can spend 2-300 for a subscription to one of these sites or, you can go to a PPL site and spend 2-300 in one night of email writing. You can conceivably sign up for a 6 month subscription and meet the woman of your dreams that day. If you did would you think you were screwed out of your money?
You are going to have expense in this endeavor. If that pains you so greatly forget it and stay home. There is nothing cheap about a relationship FSUW. Trust me when I say a couple hundred bucks for Elena's is a mere drop in the bucket.
That said, there are ways to utilize and maximize your expenses but, they are still expenses.
Well take Elena's models, its $129 for 3 months minimum, so I guess about £90 UK money. Then its more money for the subscription level up which is $259 for 3 months minimum. Seeing that you only get her contact details and skype at platinum level its likely to be this to get anywhere, unless you can arrange to skype/contact details without the agency getting in the way. Now the money in itself is not my greatest concern, more the likelyhood of a load of fake or day job profiles put on there to lure guys in for the quarterly/half yearly subscriptions. i.e because credits cost less but mount up as the women gets men on the hook whereas quarterly fee men still need to be got on the hook to keep getting the subscription rate in.
Lucky lovers seem to do a cheaper monthly subscription but there site seems a lot less active/on there - perhaps as its global, more genuine/realistic? remains to be seen, but in a way less visually enticing initially.
Elena's is a good site. I met my wife on that site as did many others here to. There are other good sites. You can met honest women on bad sites. Just because the site is bad doesn't necessarily mean the woman is. Everywhere you turn and more specifically every where you fork out cash it is "buyer beware" which is why you need to read copious amounts here and ask questions. Doing so will save you not only expense but likely some heartache as well.
Quit worrying about fake profiles or scammers. Those are not what you are looking for. Reminder: you are looking for a nice, sincere, quality good looking woman.
-
Well take Elena's models, its $129 for 3 months minimum, so I guess about £90 UK money. Then its more money for the subscription level up which is $259 for 3 months minimum. Seeing that you only get her contact details and skype at platinum level its likely to be this to get anywhere, unless you can arrange to skype/contact details without the agency getting in the way. Now the money in itself is not my greatest concern, more the likelyhood of a load of fake or day job profiles put on there to lure guys in for the quarterly/half yearly subscriptions. i.e because credits cost less but mount up as the women gets men on the hook whereas quarterly fee men still need to be got on the hook to keep getting the subscription rate in.
Lucky lovers seem to do a cheaper monthly subscription but there site seems a lot less active/on there - perhaps as its global, more genuine/realistic? remains to be seen, but in a way less visually enticing initially.
I've used all the various kinds of methods. I've written thousands and thousands and
thousands of girls all over the world and I've spent a zillion dollars on this. After a lot
of analysis my theory distilled to it's essence is
1. You find the girl where you find her.
2. You won't find her if you don't go looking for her.
3. You got to make your own way in this world.
I have other theories but that is all you get for today.
Here is what I advise you to do.
1. Research: read these threads/links
A. http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
B. Download and read this free ebook
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=47
C. Read all the trip reports, you can find mine here http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0
2. Decide if you are a visit one or a visit many guy. If you've followed the links
then one of them should appeal to you over the other. If you haven't follow the
links then don't ask any more questions (for me at least) until you have.
3. Go do it, quit analyzing and go f#ck the prom queen. I've always figured
that she's gonna f#ck somebody, why not me? Now I'm married, so it might
as well be you!
Udachi!
Bill
-
I've used all the various kinds of methods. I've written thousands and thousands and
thousands of girls all over the world and I've spent a zillion dollars on this. After a lot
of analysis my theory distilled to it's essence is
1. You find the girl where you find her.
2. You won't find her if you don't go looking for her.
3. You got to make your own way in this world.
I have other theories but that is all you get for today.
Here is what I advise you to do.
1. Research: read these threads/links
A. http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
B. Download and read this free ebook
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=47
C. Read all the trip reports, you can find mine here http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0
2. Decide if you are a visit one or a visit many guy. If you've followed the links
then one of them should appeal to you over the other. If you haven't follow the
links then don't ask any more questions (for me at least) until you have.
3. Go do it, quit analyzing and go f#ck the prom queen. I've always figured
that she's gonna f#ck somebody, why not me? Now I'm married, so it might
as well be you!
Udachi!
Bill
Ok, so I've read A & B, with C to be honest with you I just read the first 5 pages since it is 37 pages long, but get the impression it all really happened in the first 5 pages, i.e you went to St. Petersburg to meet one girl, b*tch of a time getting there with Aeroflot, met girl but subsequently fell out with girl, then went to agency to hook you up with more, but ultimately nothing came of these including the one that was already married. Also, you note down the numerous other times you were scammed in other Russian cities which is part of my reason for cautious approach.
To answer you're above question I guess considering my involvement before suggests a visit one rather than many approach - but of course article A indicates the folly of doing so, maybe you're article also. Article B tells us that many can be fine but be cautious if other girl happens to see you out and about with another girl, unlikely but no doubt happens.
What most interests me of you're experience is that you used a credit per message agency - is now at least anyway http://www.love-formula.com/ which is what many on here seem to think not a good idea. How do you feel about using this agency now with hindsight? They seemed helpful in turning up the women quickly, did it cost much for this service? Do you think it was legit? I guess to some extent the volume of girls that you turned up and walk in approach to agencies to turn up women was what I was initially after. For sure I can see how the credit thing can add up and provide further motivation for scams but I'm not sure if I am the sort of guy that would write hundreds of Emails anyway, even if copy and pasting as article A suggests. In any case, ultimately did it work for you, are you now married to a FSU woman?
-
Ok, so I've read A & B, with C to be honest with you I just read the first 5 pages since it is 37 pages long, but get the impression it all really happened in the first 5 pages, i.e you went to St. Petersburg to meet one girl, b*tch of a time getting there with Aeroflot, met girl but subsequently fell out with girl, then went to agency to hook you up with more, but ultimately nothing came of these including the one that was already married. Also, you note down the numerous other times you were scammed in other Russian cities which is part of my reason for cautious approach.
The trip report details 10 different trips to the FSU and the various trials and
tribulations and highs and lows over a period of nine years where I eventually
find the love of my life and convince her to marry me. You can probably skip
all the brouhaha with Anti-Hdate and not lose any of the flavor of the trip report.
Only one girl tried to scam me, it was fairly elaborate and it was in Odessa not
Russia.
The reason I recommend reading the various trip reports is so that you can understand
what goes on and what to expect both good and bad.
-
What most interests me of you're experience is that you used a credit per message agency - is now at least anyway http://www.love-formula.com/ which is what many on here seem to think not a good idea. How do you feel about using this agency now with hindsight? They seemed helpful in turning up the women quickly, did it cost much for this service? Do you think it was legit? I guess to some extent the volume of girls that you turned up and walk in approach to agencies to turn up women was what I was initially after. For sure I can see how the credit thing can add up and provide further motivation for scams but I'm not sure if I am the sort of guy that would write hundreds of Emails anyway, even if copy and pasting as article A suggests. In any case, ultimately did it work for you, are you now married to a FSU woman?
I would avoid the pay by the letter and pay to chat agencies. Look at either the sites
listed on the link that I provided. You can find a good girl at a pay per view by
the letter site but you can also be writing to a translator or a girl who isn't serious. We
have unanimously said "don't do that" but you are still asking, should I do that?
Go do what you want to do. It's only time and money and you've gotta get it out of your
system it seems. I did it. I dated girls too young for me, I dated a stripper back when I
was first divorced, I don't recommend that either.
I spent a lot of time examining what I did wrong and how I could have done it better
and if I knew what I know now ................. but I made the journey that I made, I
made the mistakes that I made and you can decide whether you want to make the
same mistakes that I did or not.
Udachi!
Bill
-
The trip report details 10 different trips to the FSU and the various trials and
tribulations and highs and lows over a period of nine years where I eventually
find the love of my life and convince her to marry me. You can probably skip
all the brouhaha with Anti-Hdate and not lose any of the flavor of the trip report.
Only one girl tried to scam me, it was fairly elaborate and it was in Odessa not
Russia.
The reason I recommend reading the various trip reports is so that you can understand
what goes on and what to expect both good and bad.
For sure, its handy what to avoid - flight & hotel deals from the UK are quite decent these days, probably thinking of using Ebooker flying KLM changing at Amsterdam for St.Petersburg when I go with hotel deal all in. Still know that travelling back in 2007 was not quite as electronically automated as it is today. I can take the unexpected and the slightly dodgy stuff that can crop up I know life can be unpredictable so no guareentees. Would be handy to shave a few years of the nine years though myself speaking :)
The credits comment was just out of interest really, I'm not going to do that this time, did it last time and although it was a cheaper credit cost site and the photo's were not real pro model type it still mounts up a bit and that was just with one girl plus the cost of a skype session. So, yeah thinking of Elena's models for trying to line up a few before I go, its a little pricier and some of the overly model type pics makes me suspicious (I know they say some get it done professionally, but still). Only concern with the lucky lovers site is perhaps it strays into the international general dating site and is perhaps not as well done on the user interface so on balance perhaps would rather pay a bit more. For me thinking of the three month platinum membership $259 or £172 approx so get access to their Emails addresses to continue with them after it runs out. So thinking three months should be enough time to line them up before doing a trip.
Just out of interest, how did you finally meet you're FSU wife? I don't think it says in the trip report - just that it didn't work out with the ones you met. Saw it kind of skipped from 2007-2015 so bit of a gap in between.
-
Just out of interest, how did you finally meet you're FSU wife? I don't think it says in the trip report - just that it didn't work out with the ones you met. Saw it kind of skipped from 2007-2015 so bit of a gap in between.
I wrote the 2007 report about my journey to St Pete which was my 5th trip.
I didn't decide to put everything here in one place until 2015, but I had been
making trips all along. I just didn't collect all the information and put it in one
place until 2015.
My first trip was to Odessa, my second and third trips were to Kiev. Then I went
to Lugansk, then to St Pete which is were the trip report started. After St Pete I
went to Dnepropetrovsk and nearly got married to that girl. Then off to Tblisi Georgia.
From there I met a girl from Kiev who visited me in Oregon. I then joined Elena's
models to meet a girl in Voronezh. The girl was very hot but she wasn't ever going
to be Mrs 2tallbill so I went on Mamba.ru and Vk.com and started dating other girls.
I saw a girl with very pretty eyes and asked her to meet me for tea.
It was Angel Eyes, and my life has never been the same. I visited her in Voronezh
4 times, then she came to the US to visit me twice and I married her before she could
change her mind.
-
I wrote the 2007 report about my journey to St Pete which was my 5th trip.
I didn't decide to put everything here in one place until 2015, but I had been
making trips all along. I just didn't collect all the information and put it in one
place until 2015.
My first trip was to Odessa, my second and third trips were to Kiev. Then I went
to Lugansk, then to St Pete which is were the trip report started. After St Pete I
went to Dnepropetrovsk and nearly got married to that girl. Then off to Tblisi Georgia.
From there I met a girl from Kiev who visited me in Oregon. I then joined Elena's
models to meet a girl in Voronezh. The girl was very hot but she wasn't ever going
to be Mrs 2tallbill so I went on Mamba.ru and Vk.com and started dating other girls.
I saw a girl with very pretty eyes and asked her to meet me for tea.
It was Angel Eyes, and my life has never been the same. I visited her in Voronezh
4 times, then she came to the US to visit me twice and I married her before she could
change her mind.
Wow, great you got there in the end, guessing it cost you a small fortune though going on all those trips to Russia and back over the years. Much appreciate the advice though, I'll get involved and see how it goes and hope for a good outcome. They say there are many women that are serious about a relationship/marriage to a WM, that they can have a difficult relationship situation with FSU men, if so that is a damn sight of an improvement to the UK where women don't seem motivated much at all on the relationship front just expecting it to all fall into their lap, if they are even interested. Went to France recently (despite my poor French) and the women there seemed a lot more warmer and friendlier than British girls, more feminine as well. So, if I can find a motivated Russian girl that I connect with it would be a good place to be I think.
-
Elena’s Models 2 Weeks Report
Following some readings I did on this forum, a personal review of different FSU women dating sites and suggestions from Jone, I decided to purchase 3 months Gold membership to Elena’s Model. Even though I’m light years away from the knowledge of certain Hero Members here, I thought I’d share my experience to help future members of the forum to start their journey in the world of Former Soviet Union Women.
A few facts about me:
- I’m 43 but apparently look early 30s --thanks to genetics I guess
- I have kids in shared custody
- I don’t speak/read Russian
- I have never been to Russia/Ukraine
- I know (or knew) very little about their culture
- I learned about the FSUW about 2 months ago because an agency opened in Montreal and got lots of news coverage
- I was about to signup with the agency and stumbled here through a Google search
- Most of what I learned about FSUW (other than they are very beautiful), I learned from here browsing and reading through forum posts.
Elena’s is no POF.
I’ve been on Match, POF, Tinder and one thing that struck me from the get go is how many requests (better known as EOIs) I was receiving each day on Elena’s even though I use the same set of pictures as I used on the homeland dating sites. I had many dates from Match and POF but it’s a lot of work to stand out from the crowd. On Elena’s, I got EOIs from women ranging between 22 up to 46 y-o. So I got hooked quickly, good thing I was on vacation these last 2 weeks.
Through all the EOI’s I responded positively and the ones I sent and got a Yes, I initiated conversation with 10 women that I identified based on a these criteria:
- Age range between 32-42
- Has children (if has children = no then Age greater or equal 40)
- Profile description must capture me and be longer than one sentence
Some conversations lasted 1 message, others 2, sometimes the language barrier is so difficult that you can barely hold a conversation. I had the pleasant surprise to get 2 long messages in Russian and man… Google Translate does an amazing job! It’s surprising.
Out of the 10 initial conversations, I am now down to 2 and this is where it gets interesting. For some reason, Russia seems to be my Friend. The two women I correspond with now are from the Moscow area and correspond easily in English. In our messages I find that it’s really important to ask them about their life in Russia, their kids, family, they are very proud of their country’s history and themselves as women who (in my age range) went through the USSR to Russia transition. They will ask you very subtle and direct questions to figure out if your values correspond to their strong family values. They know what they want and if you make a faux pas or try to be or act as someone you are not, they’ll figure it out.
After 3-4 days of correspondence on Elena’s I wanted to leave the messaging context of Elena’s so we went to personal email and I’m even already friend on Facebook with one of them. The one I’m FB friend with, we’ve started using Messenger yesterday and oh my God, this has taken our connection to a whole new level. In my quest to making sure I’m not talking to a dude, we talked about her work so she sent me some photos of her work and I was able to find her Google+ page where her portfolio is and I was able to correlate pictures from her portfolio to a bakeries’ website in Moscow. Also her FB profile has tons of photos, I probably saw hundred+ photos of her so I feel confident I’m talking to the right person. And it’s crazy how we connect and think alike on so many things; I don’t know this feels very different, refreshing, fun and exciting at the same time. The other woman, she has a verified profile at Elena’s (had to send a copy of her passport), very different in our emails. She seems very romantic and talks a lot about the life she’s dreaming of. She tells me a lot about Crimea, her family, Russian authors, history, it’s very interesting.
I don’t want to turn this into a who’s going to be voted off the island contest but on the flip side, this is no Tinder’s girl next door. I will keep corresponding with both for a week or two and then I will have to concentrate on one. I have decided to stay away from Elena’s for a little while because I simply don’t want them to see that I go to the site while we are having those very intense conversations.
For newbies, my 2 weeks experience can be resumed by:
- Give Elena’s a try, I think it’s worth it
- Be authentic and speak from the heart
- If in business we say location, location, location, with FSU women it’s Family, Family, Family. You’ll figure it out quickly.
- Show interests and ask questions about their culture, country and family
- Be wise with the age gap even if you get requests from relatively young women
- Do your homework, read forums here and pay attention to what some Hero members have to say.
- Last but not the least, on Elena’s specifically, manage your 50 contacts limit wisely. Don’t go nuts emailing every girl who sent you an EOI.
Thanks for reading.
Bizpat, I notice you're OP was a few months back now, how did it work out for with the two girls you were communicating with? Have you made or are making plans to go to Russia?
-
Does Elena's models really have that many legit girls do you think?
As a FSU woman, I attempted to become a Elena's Models' woman two times, once when I was still back in Russia, and another time about a year ago when I was already a Canadian. Both times the agency made an attempt to call me in person in order to talk to me and to make sure that I am what I say I am. In the most recent case, they also offered a few options for me to personally connect with EM's personnel so that they could confirm my identity, contacts and address. They made it clear to me that before they do those checks, my profile will not go public on EM. Ultimately, I decided not to talk to the agency, which resulted in my absence on the EM website :)
Therefore, if by the legit women you mean verified women, I can tell yes, the EM does verify them. To me it looks like they verify everyone.
-
To me it looks like they verify everyone.
Not men, though ;).
-
As a FSU woman, I attempted to become a Elena's Models' woman two times, once when I was still back in Russia, and another time about a year ago when I was already a Canadian. Both times the agency made an attempt to call me in person in order to talk to me and to make sure that I am what I say I am. In the most recent case, they also offered a few options for me to personally connect with EM's personnel so that they could confirm my identity, contacts and address. They made it clear to me that before they do those checks, my profile will not go public on EM. Ultimately, I decided not to talk to the agency, which resulted in my absence on the EM website :)
Therefore, if by the legit women you mean verified women, I can tell yes, the EM does verify them. To me it looks like they verify everyone.
Thank you Lily, that's very reassuring for you to know, I guess its kind of some of the photo's that concern me a little - some are very model poses and then there are the swimsuit shots and in some raunchy gear. For me while being a gut I obviously enjoy seeing such shots I kind of want a real girl - to see a real girl rather than a kind of Men's mag almost over stylized photos. I don't mind the some of quasi model photos but some seem almost over posed and I've never really been keen on the almost hooker like gear some seem to be wearing. Not saying they are all like that just something I've noticed which maybe jars a little with the family image they apparently are supposed to be known for. What do you think? Not say I don't appreciate some effort - better than dowdy t-shit and jeans stuff but just gets me thinking.
-
As a FSU woman, I attempted to become a Elena's Models' woman two times, once when I was still back in Russia, and another time about a year ago when I was already a Canadian. Both times the agency made an attempt to call me in person in order to talk to me and to make sure that I am what I say I am. In the most recent case, they also offered a few options for me to personally connect with EM's personnel so that they could confirm my identity, contacts and address. They made it clear to me that before they do those checks, my profile will not go public on EM. Ultimately, I decided not to talk to the agency, which resulted in my absence on the EM website :)
Therefore, if by the legit women you mean verified women, I can tell yes, the EM does verify them. To me it looks like they verify everyone.
yes they do....even the scammers are verified as being okay, as long as they are able to jump through the hoops.
-
Thank you Lily, that's very reassuring for you to know, I guess its kind of some of the photo's that concern me a little - some are very model poses and then there are the swimsuit shots and in some raunchy gear. For me while being a gut I obviously enjoy seeing such shots I kind of want a real girl - to see a real girl rather than a kind of Men's mag almost over stylized photos. I don't mind the some of quasi model photos but some seem almost over posed and I've never really been keen on the almost hooker like gear some seem to be wearing. Not saying they are all like that just something I've noticed which maybe jars a little with the family image they apparently are supposed to be known for. What do you think? Not say I don't appreciate some effort - better than dowdy t-shit and jeans stuff but just gets me thinking.
Your thoughts sound a bit funny to me. Do you think that we women cannot do the model poses? :D
When we are on a dating site with a purpose to attract a man, we would definitely do our best in order to provide a feast for his eyes. Most of us know which poses, clothes, camera position, what kind of lightning will make us to look our best on a photo. At the end of day, for the first look, it is the photos that strike the man's interest. I cannot think of a woman who would make a dating profile without putting her utmost efforts to select the most attractive photos of her. Does that answer your question to some extent?
As the EM is concerned, they have a detailed guidance on their website for women on what photos to use. EM also encourages women to use the swimsuit shots.
Other than that, have you ever heard that some Russian men evaluate their real women by how close they look like models in the men's magazines? ;D
-
Thank you Lily, that's very reassuring for you to know, I guess its kind of some of the photo's that concern me a little - some are very model poses and then there are the swimsuit shots and in some raunchy gear. For me while being a gut I obviously enjoy seeing such shots I kind of want a real girl - to see a real girl rather than a kind of Men's mag almost over stylized photos. I don't mind the some of quasi model photos but some seem almost over posed and I've never really been keen on the almost hooker like gear some seem to be wearing. Not saying they are all like that just something I've noticed which maybe jars a little with the family image they apparently are supposed to be known for. What do you think? Not say I don't appreciate some effort - better than dowdy t-shit and jeans stuff but just gets me thinking.
Your comments reak of double standard fuddy duddy conservatism with no comprehension of how photos may be taken--or why.
As Lily says
Your thoughts sound a bit funny to me. Do you think that we women cannot do the model poses? :D
-
As a FSU woman, I attempted to become a Elena's Models' woman two times, once when I was still back in Russia, and another time about a year ago when I was already a Canadian. Both times the agency made an attempt to call me in person in order to talk to me and to make sure that I am what I say I am. In the most recent case, they also offered a few options for me to personally connect with EM's personnel so that they could confirm my identity, contacts and address. They made it clear to me that before they do those checks, my profile will not go public on EM.
Therefore, if by the legit women you mean verified women, I can tell yes, the EM does verify them. To me it looks like they verify everyone.
What EM can't do is verify if the photos used by the lady are recent...I was amused - when last looking - to find ladies from over 10 years ago - still using the same photo ...WHY men / ladies feel the need to do this eludes me - the first video call will reveal the deceit
-
Your comments reak of double standard fuddy duddy conservatism with no comprehension of how photos may be taken--or why.
As Lily says
It may come of a bit strange, yes of course I like girls in bikini shots, but at the same time I know that its all too easy for men to be led up the garden path of following appealing pics. Ultimately, if I'm going to use a website I want at least a reasonable chance of bona fide women on there - spending time and money I can do, pointlessly wasting it I would prefer to avoid. For me, I would rather have less glossy but sincere opportunities to meet real women than just to be holding glossy pics of someone that there was never any real chance of a relationship with. If both glossy pics and a real relationship are present not an issue of course.
I just state about the racy pics vs FSU women values as from the women I was once in communication with and what I see on here the conversation can be a bit PG which may be seen to conflict with the racy pics. On this I'm never quite sure how far I can go but revealing you're desires doesn't seem a good idea until much later on from what I gather.
-
My god, man.
You have your underwear tied up in knots.
Go meet some wimin and stop over thinking everything.
-
It may come of a bit strange, yes of course I like girls in bikini shots, but at the same time I know that its all too easy for men to be led up the garden path of following appealing pics. Ultimately, if I'm going to use a website I want at least a reasonable chance of bona fide women on there - spending time and money I can do, pointlessly wasting it I would prefer to avoid. For me, I would rather have less glossy but sincere opportunities to meet real women than just to be holding glossy pics of someone that there was never any real chance of a relationship with. If both glossy pics and a real relationship are present not an issue of course.
I just state about the racy pics vs FSU women values as from the women I was once in communication with and what I see on here the conversation can be a bit PG which may be seen to conflict with the racy pics. On this I'm never quite sure how far I can go but revealing you're desires doesn't seem a good idea until much later on from what I gather.
Go have fun meeting the ladies. If you haven't done traveling yet, you might find yourself surprised that these very attractive ladies actually do exist, and are available for the right kind of man. You will just have to sort out who is who.
Fathertime!
-
Go have fun meeting the ladies. If you haven't done traveling yet, you might find yourself surprised that these very attractive ladies actually do exist, and are available for the right kind of man. You will just have to sort out who is who.
Fathertime!
Thanks man, needed to hear this it much lifted my spirits, been to France no so long ago and a fair few attractive ladies there so can imagine the Russian situation being good :) Choice in the UK is often limited, a few nice ones but they are often pursued by many and they know it so its very difficult to score well here. Much a similar situation in the US I hear, so yeah much looking forward to getting out there in the next 2-3 months.
-
Thanks man, needed to hear this it much lifted my spirits, been to France no so long ago and a fair few attractive ladies there so can imagine the Russian situation being good :) Choice in the UK is often limited, a few nice ones but they are often pursued by many and they know it so its very difficult to score well here. Much a similar situation in the US I hear, so yeah much looking forward to getting out there in the next 2-3 months.
Good.
Most of my personal experience is in South America, although I was also very happy with the looks of the ladies I met in Ukraine. I recall 1st viewing pictures, and cynically thinking these ladies are probably a bunch of phonies, but still it seemed worth the chance. There are indeed some phonies, but there are also a lot of legit ladies. Your job is to sort through who is who, and it can be done, and most of the process is something to look forward to.
Fathertime!
-
Thanks man, needed to hear this it much lifted my spirits, been to France no so long ago and a fair few attractive ladies there so can imagine the Russian situation being good :) Choice in the UK is often limited, a few nice ones but they are often pursued by many and they know it so its very difficult to score well here. Much a similar situation in the US I hear, so yeah much looking forward to getting out there in the next 2-3 months.
If there was one thing I was hoping to get across to you is, while the competition for stunningly beautiful, quality women isn't as great, it doesn't give the Western man a free pass in relationship building. Women still want to learn you, be wined, dined and romanced. The actual relationship part is the same as those beauties in UK or Paris or anywhere else. Women are women no matter where you meet them.
-
If there was one thing I was hoping to get across to you is, while the competition for stunningly beautiful, quality women isn't as great, it doesn't give the Western man a free pass in relationship building. Women still want to learn you, be wined, dined and romanced. The actual relationship part is the same as those beauties in UK or Paris or anywhere else. Women are women no matter where you meet them.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm up for that, going out romancing, dinner, etc is good with me, its just getting a foot in the door is what I need. I'm not sure you understand how the hot women in England are - the few that are - they can eye you up one minute and ignore you the next, talking to they is often a one way process and an uphill struggle, they see it as all down to the guy to do, its that arduous. Its basically like speaking to brick wall, plus many already have boyfriends and just do it for the attention. The chances of landing a decent girl in the UK are slim, many are after them so you have to be in the right place right time or highly socially skilled, i.e center of the party. The level of obesity among women are making hot women in the UK scarcer than ever. Now its not that I'm totally unskilled, unattractive, etc but to score with even a decent English women where the attraction is mutual is very difficult.
-
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm up for that, going out romancing, dinner, etc is good with me, its just getting a foot in the door is what I need. I'm not sure you understand how the hot women in England are - the few that are - they can eye you up one minute and ignore you the next, talking to they is often a one way process and an uphill struggle, they see it as all down to the guy to do, its that arduous. Its basically like speaking to brick wall, plus many already have boyfriends and just do it for the attention. The chances of landing a decent girl in the UK are slim, many are after them so you have to be in the right place right time or highly socially skilled, i.e center of the party. The level of obesity among women are making hot women in the UK scarcer than ever. Now its not that I'm totally unskilled, unattractive, etc but to score with even a decent English women where the attraction is mutual is very difficult.
There are lots of good women in the UK, unfortunately many of them are
already married to happy men, it's the same in the USA especially when
you get out of the Metropolitan areas.
After a certain age the attractive women who don't have 5 kids with 6
different ex husbands who aren't crazy and who are relatively thin are
more difficult to find. Out of that small subset there are some girls who
only seek bad boys/bad men. Out of the remaining there are some that
seek only Brad Pitt but with more money.
I've never had trouble finding American girls to date me. However, I can
find a higher quality woman in the FSU than I can in the USA.
I'm happily married now so I'm not seeking anybody, but when I was
searching, I could easily find a 30 something to 40 year old woman who
had a university degree, who knew two or more languages, who was slim
and attractive without a dyke haircut who would like to meet me for tea.
She would arrive dressed very attractively and could find Austria on a map
and not think that's where kangaroo's came from. She would be a good
conversationalist and even laugh at some of my jokes.
For whatever reason many men in the FSU look at women as if they have
an expiration date stamped on their forehead. So that leaves a very large
segment of very desirable, interesting and available women who would love
to have a marriage and family for guys like us.
-
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm up for that, going out romancing, dinner, etc is good with me, its just getting a foot in the door is what I need. I'm not sure you understand how the hot women in England are - the few that are - they can eye you up one minute and ignore you the next, talking to they is often a one way process and an uphill struggle, they see it as all down to the guy to do, its that arduous. Its basically like speaking to brick wall, plus many already have boyfriends and just do it for the attention. The chances of landing a decent girl in the UK are slim, many are after them so you have to be in the right place right time or highly socially skilled, i.e center of the party. The level of obesity among women are making hot women in the UK scarcer than ever. Now its not that I'm totally unskilled, unattractive, etc but to score with even a decent English women where the attraction is mutual is very difficult.
If you are having that level of difficulty in the UK, you might experience it elsewhere. I'm not making any assumptions as to your prowess or ability. I tend to speak in more in "fact of the matter". You say you are not unattractive, unskilled then I would tend to believe you but, there is a reason why you're not as successful as you'd like with the local women. You just haven't recognized it. It would be eye opening if you did.
You strike me as a lad that might be able to make this work. Make no mistake, it's not for everyone. One insight it does require is that you can take an honest look at yourself, find an honest woman and then work toward honest relationship. There are no short cuts in that regard
-
...WHY men / ladies feel the need to do this eludes me . . .
Quite simple. The plan is to have the first meeting after dark. Then, after a good performance in bed, the hope is that age will not matter.
-
If you are having that level of difficulty in the UK, you might experience it elsewhere. I'm not making any assumptions as to your prowess or ability. I tend to speak in more in "fact of the matter". You say you are not unattractive, unskilled then I would tend to believe you but, there is a reason why you're not as successful as you'd like with the local women. You just haven't recognized it. It would be eye opening if you did.
You strike me as a lad that might be able to make this work. Make no mistake, it's not for everyone. One insight it does require is that you can take an honest look at yourself, find an honest woman and then work toward honest relationship. There are no short cuts in that regard
Much appreciate the advice FP. So I've taken the above advice given and signed up to Elena's Models - On the first day on there I email of to a good thirty or so women. Starting to get some replies back now and a couple that have been back and forth already. However, even in this very early stage I am getting a couple of women that want to carry on conversing by Whatsapp and one by Email and Skype. I didn't suggest it, they came up with it first. I've only have been with Whatsapp briefly then left as I didn't see the point at the time. I'm wondering if you (or anyone else) have any advice on whether this is a good course to go down at this very early stage or whether its better to keep it on Elena's Models site for the moment until I get to know these girls better? Are there any downsides to going on Whatsapp?
-
Much appreciate the advice FP. So I've taken the above advice given and signed up to Elena's Models - On the first day on there I email of to a good thirty or so women. Starting to get some replies back now and a couple that have been back and forth already. However, even in this very early stage I am getting a couple of women that want to carry on conversing by Whatsapp and one by Email and Skype. I didn't suggest it, they came up with it first. I've only have been with Whatsapp briefly then left as I didn't see the point at the time. I'm wondering if you (or anyone else) have any advice on whether this is a good course to go down at this very early stage or whether its better to keep it on Elena's Models site for the moment until I get to know these girls better? Are there any downsides to going on Whatsapp?
Quite the contrary. Move away from Elena's or any agency/site with any woman that interests you, as soon as possible. Any woman that you want direct personal connection with. Personally, I would suggest Skype asap, I've never used WhatsApp or viber but I understand them to be good avenues of communication.
As soon as you can establish direct connection you can at a much quicker pace learn of the woman and she learn you. You'll likely find that many of the profiles you thought you liked, you don't really like at all and vice-versa.
I'm old. Personally, before I met my wife I had never skyped with any prospective babes. Skype wasn't available then as it is now 2006-08. I was quick however quick to move on a phone number. My wife had no internet connection at home in those days which was the norm then. Not so much nowadays. Smartphones then were not very smart.
It wasn't until my 3rd trip to Russia that I set her up with an old laptop I had and a webcam for future skipping (which even then we had to buy Skype minutes). Ironically enough that was also the trip when I asked her to marry me.
I'm mentioning all of this for you to understand technology wise it was more difficult to communicate then. Now, you have technology on your side as well as ease. It's damn easy to communicate with these women. Take advantage of that and do not let anything stand in your way or get in the middle of communicating with a woman that you want to know better and do it quickly. The sooner you find a romantic interest, the quicker you are on a plane to see her. That is the point, isn't it?
-
Quite the contrary. Move away from Elena's or any agency/site with any woman that interests you, as soon as possible. Any woman that you want direct personal connection with. Personally, I would suggest Skype asap, I've never used WhatsApp or viber but I understand them to be good avenues of communication.
As soon as you can establish direct connection you can at a much quicker pace learn of the woman and she learn you. You'll likely find that many of the profiles you thought you liked, you don't really like at all and vice-versa.
I'm old. Personally, before I met my wife I had never skyped with any prospective babes. Skype wasn't available then as it is now 2006-08. I was quick however quick to move on a phone number. My wife had no internet connection at home in those days which was the norm then. Not so much nowadays. Smartphones then were not very smart.
It wasn't until my 3rd trip to Russia that I set her up with an old laptop I had and a webcam for future skipping (which even then we had to buy Skype minutes). Ironically enough that was also the trip when I asked her to marry me.
I'm mentioning all of this for you to understand technology wise it was more difficult to communicate then. Now, you have technology on your side as well as ease. It's damn easy to communicate with these women. Take advantage of that and do not let anything stand in your way or get in the middle of communicating with a woman that you want to know better and do it quickly. The sooner you find a romantic interest, the quicker you are on a plane to see her. That is the point, isn't it?
For sure, ok getting to the point where I have got some coming up to Skype soon and a few I'm keeping to Email/Whatsapp texting so as to not have too much heavy going on Skype all at once to begin with. I'm pretty sure I could get them to Skype and will suggest it after the first ones. The time spent on EM has so far been pretty full on with correspondence contact with women - yes it almost feels like I'm Brad Pitt, lol, so different from the uk scene. I'm kind of a little wary as it kind of leaves me wondering as to the motives of these women - just family? I know one of the women I contacted mentioned social security for bringing up children as a reason (apparently does not have any at present, in a way I see the point) but it makes me wary of her.
Another women, and perhaps my reason for writing comes from Uzbekistan - she has a kid already, now normally I would tend to avoid those that already have children. She's pretty hot looking though, has quite a few photos that all look good, which I guess originally drove me to contacting her, her mail to me has been pretty good though, everyone longish and involved, about her, background, area, etc. All of the pics sent seem to suggest a nice environment, both inside the house and where she lives - Uzbekistan looks to have come a long way from the impoverished state I thought it would be, it looks much on a par with the west for the most part perhaps? Which brings me to the question of why her and of course other girls want to move to the west - the answer seems to be to find a decent man. When things look decent around where they live though I have my doubts after all its supplanting them from where they live and dropping them in a completely different culture sometimes far from family. Yes the plane ticket would be way more expensive too.
Now I don't expect her to put me first over the kid, I would never expect a woman to do that, and I'm not going to get judgmental over how she had the child, I have not asked yet of course as its no doubt quite personal. It just makes me wonder if some women are just after a ticket to UK/US, maybe to claim benefits or just get in and most of all how loyal they would be to you after entry? Apart from the obvious heavy handed, non-caring attention on the process types how do you tell? I'm usually fairly good at reading people, but if someone is not being genuine then its perhaps not always that easy to tell. Do you think that the women already having a child greatly increases the risk do you think?
-
For sure, ok getting to the point where I have got some coming up to Skype soon and a few I'm keeping to Email/Whatsapp texting so as to not have too much heavy going on Skype all at once to begin with.
Here is where the rubber meets the road. Now you need to remember who is driving the bus.
You are driving the bus. Repeat after me, "I Trenchcoat am driving the bus!!"
Ok, now you need to be ruthless. Some of those girls are better than others. You need to start
sifting. You don't invite every girl who wrote you back to Skype. You don't invite every cute girl
who is better than you would find in ole Blighty back to Skype. You only invite the best of them
to Skype. Can't decide yet? call them on the phone and talk to them for a few minutes.
You can only marry one girl. Two FSU wives would drive you totally bonkers anyways. So start
sifting out the girls who aren't the best. Don't invite several girls to Skype!!! otherwise you will
be running around like a one armed paper hanger with an itchy butt. Invite one or two at the
most to Skype. Otherwise you will be spending 80% of your time explaining yourself and working
your alibi's.
She's pretty hot looking though
That's why the Achaean legions were sent to Troy!
Uzbekistan looks to have come a long way from the impoverished state I thought it would be, it looks much on a par with the west for the most part perhaps?
Uzbekistan is NOT even remotely close to being on par with the West. However, they are
proud people and don't live in squalor, or in dirt. They will keep their homes clean and if they
have something it will be taken care of.
Which brings me to the question of why her and of course other girls want to move to the west - the answer seems to be to find a decent man. When things look decent around where they live though I have my doubts after all its supplanting them from where they live and dropping them in a completely different culture sometimes far from family. Yes the plane ticket would be way more expensive too.
I don't know what age of woman you are seeking. However after a certain age they have fewer
and fewer good opportunities to have a good marriage and a family. They begin to imagine
spending their lives alone. You are a significant upgrade from being alone.
It just makes me wonder if some women are just after a ticket to UK/US, maybe to claim benefits or just get in and most of all how loyal they would be to you after entry? Apart from the obvious heavy handed, non-caring attention on the process types how do you tell? I'm usually fairly good at reading people, but if someone is not being genuine then its perhaps not always that easy to tell. Do you think that the women already having a child greatly increases the risk do you think?
Apart from the obvious heavy handed, non-caring attention on the process types how do you tell? I'm usually fairly good at reading people, but if someone is not being genuine then its perhaps not always that easy to tell. Do you think that the women already having a child greatly increases the risk do you think?
If you are a good judge of character then you don't need to worry. It's the gullible guys who
lie to themselves that need to worry. Stop worrying about risk. Do you really want to pick a
woman by what is the least risky? [I know you don't]
So, keep your eyes and ears open. Sift through the girls and get them on the phone. Then get
the best of them on Skype. Then go meet them. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
Udachi!
Bill
-
For sure, ok getting to the point where I have got some coming up to Skype soon and a few I'm keeping to Email/Whatsapp texting so as to not have too much heavy going on Skype all at once to begin with. I'm pretty sure I could get them to Skype and will suggest it after the first ones. The time spent on EM has so far been pretty full on with correspondence contact with women - yes it almost feels like I'm Brad Pitt, lol, so different from the uk scene. I'm kind of a little wary as it kind of leaves me wondering as to the motives of these women - just family? I know one of the women I contacted mentioned social security for bringing up children as a reason (apparently does not have any at present, in a way I see the point) but it makes me wary of her.
Another women, and perhaps my reason for writing comes from Uzbekistan - she has a kid already, now normally I would tend to avoid those that already have children. She's pretty hot looking though, has quite a few photos that all look good, which I guess originally drove me to contacting her, her mail to me has been pretty good though, everyone longish and involved, about her, background, area, etc. All of the pics sent seem to suggest a nice environment, both inside the house and where she lives - Uzbekistan looks to have come a long way from the impoverished state I thought it would be, it looks much on a par with the west for the most part perhaps? Which brings me to the question of why her and of course other girls want to move to the west - the answer seems to be to find a decent man. When things look decent around where they live though I have my doubts after all its supplanting them from where they live and dropping them in a completely different culture sometimes far from family. Yes the plane ticket would be way more expensive too.
Yeah what Bill said
Now I don't expect her to put me first over the kid, I would never expect a woman to do that, and I'm not going to get judgmental over how she had the child, I have not asked yet of course as its no doubt quite personal. It just makes me wonder if some women are just after a ticket to UK/US, maybe to claim benefits or just get in and most of all how loyal they would be to you after entry? Apart from the obvious heavy handed, non-caring attention on the process types how do you tell? I'm usually fairly good at reading people, but if someone is not being genuine then its perhaps not always that easy to tell. Do you think that the women already having a child greatly increases the risk do you think?
She's not going to put you over the kid and she shouldn't. If she does, you don't want her. No need to get judgmental over why she has a kid. What could it possibly matter? Don't worry about a woman just trying for a free pass to the West. Most of them aren't and trust me, the West alone isn't worth giving up their current life which in most instances isn't as bad as you've imagined. In many respects, it's much better than yours.
Now the query on how "loyal" she'll be is a bit discerning. She's not a puppy or a goldfish. She is a woman and if you are doing your due diligence as a prospective mate, you probably never question her motivation. A child will not increase or decrease your ability to build and foster a relationship.
The bevy of questions that are running through your mind like a runaway locomotive are normal but, don't let them hang you up. Keep your head about you and forget judging anyone. Much of it is gut feeling and there is a big difference in gut and penis. Those following their penis often wind up in the wrong hole
-
In my opinion, Trenchcoat should get a dog and forget everything about getting a woman. That is what he is looking for, a loyal puppy.
-
In my opinion, Trenchcoat should get a dog and forget everything about getting a woman.
Right now there are 4 members and 44 guests reading. Why don't you give some advice
for the 44 guys reading out there?
How about "Nightwish's 7 secrets for success" or
"The Nightwish's common sense approach to pursuing FSUW".
Udachi!
Bill
-
I have met up with around 20 different women so far, all in Ukraine in various ages between 26 and 39.
Most of them in their mid-30s, so about 10-12 years younger.
I am 46, “some say” I look 36, I feel 26, I sometimes act 16…. but in reality I am 46 and I am comfortable with that fact. Divorced with 4 children, I blame my ex.wife for that amount :D
My search has been through all available channels, datingsites both PPL, monthly and free sites. Mamba.ru, Twoo.com and even on VKontakt.
I have had 4 relationships that lasted longer then 2 days after I set boots on the ground, and that is the main thing. GO there, MEET them and don’t just talk and talk and talk.
Ok. yes I have it a little easier, Ukraine is 5 hours away from my home and it costs me around $300 to get there and home again. So it’s a bargain for me.
The successes has been quite short introductions, maybe the longest was a month and then I have went over to meet them, wine and dine them. Two of them had children and those two was the ones I really could have settled down with, they were ready for change, for love and commitment, but various reasons has kept my search ongoing.
I have used the WoVo approach, mainly because I think its most fair to the women, and secondly because I have too much going on to be able to keep up multiple conversations.
I tried WMVM once (4), took way to much attention from the reason that I was there in the first place to try and juggle everything, even though I was very honest about this when I talked to the ladies (if they asked). But that was not for me.. I rather go back more times then do that again.
I have always been completely honest with them from the first contact, what I am attracted to, what I look for in a woman and what her eventual life here would mean. Lost some and won some with this.
But what I have learned that there is so many promises made by men, so many strange proposals, and so so SO many sexual invites on all these sites that many don’t really believe you until you’re actually standing there in front of them at the airport or where ever you choose to meet.
So my secrets to success, make a careful approach, get them interested, DON’T just compliment on their appearance, ask intelligent question, take an interest in her life, get them off the sites and in to more 'intimate' talks, skype, viber, whatsapp.. and then go go go ASAP.
If you are worried to be playing second violin to a single FSUW with child, then my suggestion, don’t approach them, you are looking for the wrong thing. At least when it comes to the one I met with a child, they have a very strong bond and you don’t want to try come between that. I have never been worried about that, I am sure she will have enough compassion, love and emotion so that everyone stays happy.
That’s my opinion, others may have another one.
so.. that's my long story (2 years now) in a very short format.
-
I have met up with around 20 different women so far, all in Ukraine in various ages between 26 and 39.
Most of them in their mid-30s, so about 10-12 years younger.
I am 46, “some say” I look 36, I feel 26, I sometimes act 16…. but in reality I am 46 and I am comfortable with that fact. Divorced with 4 children, I blame my ex.wife for that amount :D
My search has been through all available channels, datingsites both PPL, monthly and free sites. Mamba.ru, Twoo.com and even on VKontakt.
I have had 4 relationships that lasted longer then 2 days after I set boots on the ground, and that is the main thing. GO there, MEET them and don’t just talk and talk and talk.
Ok. yes I have it a little easier, Ukraine is 5 hours away from my home and it costs me around $300 to get there and home again. So it’s a bargain for me.
The successes has been quite short introductions, maybe the longest was a month and then I have went over to meet them, wine and dine them. Two of them had children and those two was the ones I really could have settled down with, they were ready for change, for love and commitment, but various reasons has kept my search ongoing.
I have used the WoVo approach, mainly because I think its most fair to the women, and secondly because I have too much going on to be able to keep up multiple conversations.
I tried WMVM once (4), took way to much attention from the reason that I was there in the first place to try and juggle everything, even though I was very honest about this when I talked to the ladies (if they asked). But that was not for me.. I rather go back more times then do that again.
I have always been completely honest with them from the first contact, what I am attracted to, what I look for in a woman and what her eventual life here would mean. Lost some and won some with this.
But what I have learned that there is so many promises made by men, so many strange proposals, and so so SO many sexual invites on all these sites that many don’t really believe you until you’re actually standing there in front of them at the airport or where ever you choose to meet.
So my secrets to success, make a careful approach, get them interested, DON’T just compliment on their appearance, ask intelligent question, take an interest in her life, get them off the sites and in to more 'intimate' talks, skype, viber, whatsapp.. and then go go go ASAP.
If you are worried to be playing second violin to a single FSUW with child, then my suggestion, don’t approach them, you are looking for the wrong thing. At least when it comes to the one I met with a child, they have a very strong bond and you don’t want to try come between that. I have never been worried about that, I am sure she will have enough compassion, love and emotion so that everyone stays happy.
That’s my opinion, others may have another one.
so.. that's my long story (2 years now) in a very short format.
Nightwish, you really don't have any successes to date, do you? I mean, 2 years, 20 women and only 4 of those lasted longer than two days. One might easily surmise you to be a sex tourist. Apparently, the only thing you're doing correctly is booking your flights.
Trench coat is new to the entire shooting match. He isn't parsing his words and he's asking all the right questions to learn. How about in this instance you keep your opinion to yourself until you have more information to base it on.
In my opinion, you have nothing on which to state with conviction that you know of what you speak. 19 failures in 2 years really doesn't give you any street credibility in this endeavor, does it?
-
Nightwish, you really don't have any successes to date, do you? I mean, 2 years, 20 women and only 4 of those lasted longer than two days. One might easily surmise you to be a sex tourist. Apparently, the only thing you're doing correctly is booking your flights.
Trench coat is new to the entire shooting match. He isn't parsing his words and he's asking all the right questions to learn. How about in this instance you keep your opinion to yourself until you have more information to base it on.
In my opinion, you have nothing on which to state with conviction that you know of what you speak. 19 failures in 2 years really doesn't give you any street credibility in this endeavor, does it?
Who said anything about failures?
Who said anything what made me (or her) not to decide to continue the relationship.
Who said anything about sex? To be a "sex tourist" I think having sex with the ones you meet is a requirement.
How about you keep your opinion to yourself until you have more information to base it on.
And yes, I am world champion in booking flights, almost once a week the last two or maybe almost three years now. Oh I didn't mention I traveled a lot in work throughout Europe :)
so...
I have had very successful dates, but for one reason or another with the wrong girl. And I have had a few disasterdates where one ended up in a 3 month long relationship.
Yes I am picky, I am going to live with this person for the rest of my life, and you have NO idea what kind of women I have met and what their story has been.
If this gives me streetcred. or not I dont really give a flying f*ck. I am not really doing this to get a bigger e-penis on some forum. There is a reason haven't posted anything of my trips here before.
-
Who said anything about failures?
Who said anything what made me (or her) not to decide to continue the relationship.
Who said anything about sex? To be a "sex tourist" I think having sex with the ones you meet is a requirement.
How about you keep your opinion to yourself until you have more information to base it on.
And yes, I am world champion in booking flights, almost once a week the last two or maybe almost three years now. Oh I didn't mention I traveled a lot in work throughout Europe :)
so...
I have had very successful dates, but for one reason or another with the wrong girl. And I have had a few disasterdates where one ended up in a 3 month long relationship.
Yes I am picky, I am going to live with this person for the rest of my life, and you have NO idea what kind of women I have met and what their story has been.
If this gives me streetcred. or not I dont really give a flying f*ck. I am not really doing this to get a bigger e-penis on some forum. There is a reason haven't posted anything of my trips here before.
Yeah it kind of gets your goat, don't it. :D Do you see how easy it is to make the wrong assumptions while you sit high on your greater than thou perch? Cut the guy some slack. He's here to learn and that is what this forum is supposed to be about.
-
It just makes me wonder if some women are just after a ticket to UK/US, maybe to claim benefits or just get in and most of all how loyal they would be to you after entry? Apart from the obvious heavy handed, non-caring attention on the process types how do you tell? I'm usually fairly good at reading people, but if someone is not being genuine then its perhaps not always that easy to tell. Do you think that the women already having a child greatly increases the risk do you think?
That's a great question and is definitely not easy since it can only really be dis-proven after she attains citizenship. Before that time, realistically you can probably only be 99.99% sure that she won't leave you.
What also makes it difficult is that 'western life' is part of your offering (and every other western man here) and pretty much all legit FSU women on dating sites want that.
How attitude to you, whether she is absent (looking for another husband), how she treats your money and her attitude towards your friends and family are some good indicators. Also, if you are punching above your weight significantly that's probably not a good sign :D
If any relationship here is what you fear it will probably be the one from the thread (and other controversial back story threads related to it) under the married section titled "Life continues..." 8)
-
Nightwish, you really don't have any successes to date, do you? I mean, 2 years, 20 women and only 4 of those lasted longer than two days. One might easily surmise you to be a sex tourist. Apparently, the only thing you're doing correctly is booking your flights.
Ever heard of one of Thomas Edison's famous quotes?
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.
Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.
-
Ever heard of one of Thomas Edison's famous quotes?
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
That was one of my taglines when I started here.
Udachi!
Bill
-
That's a great question and is definitely not easy since it can only really be dis-proven after she attains citizenship. Before that time, realistically you can probably only be 99.99% sure that she won't leave you.
What also makes it difficult is that 'western life' is part of your offering (and every other western man here) and pretty much all legit FSU women on dating sites want that.
How attitude to you, whether she is absent (looking for another husband), how she treats your money and her attitude towards your friends and family are some good indicators. Also, if you are punching above your weight significantly that's probably not a good sign :D
If any relationship here is what you fear it will probably be the one from the thread (and other controversial back story threads related to it) under the married section titled "Life continues..." 8)
Yeah, I think my best bet is too just go with my gut as stated above, I know some women can turn it on when they want to but probably getting a good feeling of her and not trying to read into something that isn't there because of the want to be with somebody is probably the best way. In truth I guess some can be weeded out in the correspondence, the stuff they come up with, way they treat you. I guess I was asking if there is a hard and fast way but other than the girl getting pregnant with your kid before the marriage is done then I guess its just a case of getting to know each other well, going with you're gut and placing your stake. Its not that I'm not willing to do this but any help reducing the odds of it going south are handy. I've read a lot of stuff on this forum that is handy as it helps seeing others pitfalls I think in avoiding them, also seen the film 'Love Me'(2014) on Netflix recently which is quite eye opening.
Anyway, thank you to everyone for their help and advice on this forum, it helps a lot and yes indeed its a learning experience for me as its a fairly new area and not one I've gone into in any great depth before so those of you with experience in this area are indeed a big help for me. I guess I am just trying to get on as indeed many probably are on here and while it may look that I am wary of deception at every turn its really just wanting to be careful so I can get to my goal of finding a decent Russian Woman who is genuinely looking for the same as me, hopefully.
Well, you certainly get all types on there in any case, one woman wrote to me "The idea with meeting after a couple months of communication is not good. Don't want to waste my time on virtual bla bla bla during a couple months. Regards..." This she posted to me on Christmas day of all days, lol. After just a few days and a couple of correspondence the last of mine was inviting her to skype and yes while telling her it would be a couple of months also told her I was willing to move it forward for a long weekend. Anyhow she was promptly blocked as that sort of abrupt reply does not bode well I think.
The rest is going ok, its quite heartening to get some negative along with positive in conversation I think as it not too negative like the above as it more likely to be genuine I think. Anyway, lining some up to skype soon as suggested not too many at once and hopefully it will continue to proceed well in some form or another.
-
Well, you certainly get all types on there in any case, one woman wrote to me "The idea with meeting after a couple months of communication is not good. Don't want to waste my time on virtual bla bla bla during a couple months. Regards..." This she posted to me on Christmas day of all days, lol.
Just remember that, for her, it's not Christmas Day. December 25th doesn't mean anything to the average Russian or Ukrainian, because Christmas in the Orthodox faith is on January 7th.
-
Just remember that, for her, it's not Christmas Day. December 25th doesn't mean anything to the average Russian or Ukrainian, because Christmas in the Orthodox faith is on January 7th.
If Russian or Ukrainian women do not give monkey about our Christmas Day, then they are not really interested in our culture or in us. FULL STOP! Why should we, men have to be interested in their culture and women do not. It is suppose to be 2 ways.
-
If Russian or Ukrainian women do not give monkey about our Christmas Day, then they are not really interested in our culture or in us. FULL STOP! Why should we, men have to be interested in their culture and women do not. It is suppose to be 2 ways.
Exactly, that's what I figured also.
-
. . . because Christmas in the Orthodox faith is on January 7th.
Try to tell that to Orthodox Jewish people.
-
If Russian or Ukrainian women do not give monkey about our Christmas Day, then they are not really interested in our culture or in us. FULL STOP! Why should we, men have to be interested in their culture and women do not. It is suppose to be 2 ways.
Exactly, that's what I figured also.
You don't have to be. I haven't seen or heard of any arm twisting going on. Just stay in your own culture and find you some wimmin. How has that worked out for you so far?
:ROFL:
-
I guess I am just trying to get on as indeed many probably are on here and while it may look that I am wary of deception at every turn its really just wanting to be careful so I can get to my goal of finding a decent Russian Woman who is genuinely looking for the same as me, hopefully.
That's a good mindset. The last thing you want is to come across as thinking she is lying 24/7. That will probably doom any relationship.
You've already started writing which is good. The only thing you can lose at this point is time and a small amount of money for site subscriptions. Finding a legit girl that you like is a numbers game - similar to normal local dating.
I'd have to agree that pretty much all of the information you'll ever need is buried in old posts and trip reports here (failures, successes and failures dressed like successes). The problem is reading it all can take some serious time. History is doomed to repeat itself as I'm sure most people fall into the same traps (not necessarily scams) even if they read them all. Some things just need to be experienced by ones self.
If you're ever unsure about someone then post the specific situation here on the forum for advice and go from there.
Well, you certainly get all types on there in any case, one woman wrote to me "The idea with meeting after a couple months of communication is not good. Don't want to waste my time on virtual bla bla bla during a couple months. Regards..." This she posted to me on Christmas day of all days, lol. After just a few days and a couple of correspondence the last of mine was inviting her to skype and yes while telling her it would be a couple of months also told her I was willing to move it forward for a long weekend. Anyhow she was promptly blocked as that sort of abrupt reply does not bode well I think.
Coming across as harsh could be translation issues. Also Russians do tend to be very direct and to the point which can be construed as such.
-
. . . Russians do tend to be very direct and to the point which can be construed as such.
Because it is.
-
Because it is.
The beauty of this is that I never have to endure "the silent treatment" I
never have to sit and wonder what Angel Eyes might be upset about.
No mind games. Just direct straight forward answer (if they know).
FSUW are still women and sometimes have no idea what's bothering them, but
I've never gotten the "if he loved me, he would know crap."
My last American girlfriend and I had a disagreement. It wasn't really much of a
scrap. However, she decided that she was still mad and called me on the phone
and proceeded to give me the silent treatment. Once I realized that she wasn't
joking, I laughed and said "You seriously called me on the phone to give me the
silent treatment?" I hung up and she was dumped.
-
If Russian or Ukrainian women do not give monkey about our Christmas Day, then they are not really interested in our culture or in us. FULL STOP! Why should we, men have to be interested in their culture and women do not. It is suppose to be 2 ways.
Umm , she merely sent a stranger a reply over the internet.
I doubt she *expected* ,or required ,that he would read it on his Holiday.
She likely just assumed he would read it when he had time, whenever that was
,so the send date isn't too relevant.
This hardly indicates any real lack of concern on her part, for his culture or traditions.
I'm sure given a real relationship ,she(or most any normal woman), would be fine with honoring, even completely enjoying and looking forward to, his Holiday traditions.
It's just a new pen pal at this time, who was direct in her approach about not wanting to waste time, she'd obviously rather meet in person.
That's not really a negative.
Nor should she have any reason to not type and send a reply, on some day that is not a holiday in her country.
I'm sure men type and send email(text or skype) replies all the time on holidays in Ukraine they aren't truly aware of! ;)
(they have so many it would be impossible not too lol)
So while I understand the OP dropping her,
I wouldn't have in his shoes over such.
It means nothing , just a direct women (fairly typical of RW)
that has likely never met a foreigner, but just as likely have had some promise to show up that never have.
Completely normal experience there with a woman starting to be involved in MOB, and her reply isn't out of line or miss timed.
BTW my wife (orthodox) loves Christmas here, and we celebrate Dec 25th as is tradition here , and are the work days off here.
It was never any problem, and I cant imagine many women that it really would be. As far as honoring traditions from the FSU, I'm perfectly fine with that too.
-
BTW my wife (orthodox) loves Christmas here, and we celebrate Dec 25th as is tradition here , and are the work days off here.
It was never any problem, and I cant imagine many women that it really would be. As far as honoring traditions from the FSU, I'm perfectly fine with that too.
When I had Colombian girlfriend, we were happy exchanging our traditions when I visited there for a Christmas vacation.
She get to celebrate their traditionally on the 24th instead of 25th, but I cooked turkey and brought Xmas pudding, crackers and her kids got to experience Santa's sockings overnight :) The kids got to write letters to 'baby Jesus' instead of Santa which are their traditions.
-
The beauty of this is that I never have to endure "the silent treatment" I
never have to sit and wonder what Angel Eyes might be upset about.
No mind games. Just direct straight forward answer (if they know).
FSUW are still women and sometimes have no idea what's bothering them, but
I've never gotten the "if he loved me, he would know crap."
My last American girlfriend and I had a disagreement. It wasn't really much of a
scrap. However, she decided that she was still mad and called me on the phone
and proceeded to give me the silent treatment. Once I realized that she wasn't
joking, I laughed and said "You seriously called me on the phone to give me the
silent treatment?" I hung up and she was dumped.
Yeah, I have been subjected to that in the past and can't stand it, even my Mother does it which is as annoying as hell. I just find it so stressful that I don't thing its fair to do that to another human being, if they were on the receiving end they wouldn't at all like it. Sometimes it can go on for days and is really a form of abuse I think that isn't really on. Well, anyway, so I guess I would prefer the woman to be straight talking with me, none of those silly guessing games, its just weird and illogical really, I what am I supposed to do keep guessing, lol.
I think though with the female in question here it was perhaps too much directness for me, one of the other girls I am communicating with has been direct with regards a communication issue and while that was a little frustrating to sort out, we have I believed in the end and its something I'm willing to hang in there with for some distance at least. So that level of directness I don't mind but when it broaches on the abrupt rudeness it kind of gets me thinking whether it would get my back up if I kept running up against it, hence why I ceased communication and blocked her. I can see from her point of view she just wanted to get to it and whilst I not into being real picky I got to thinking it probably wouldn't be a good match.
Anyway, present day concern is that I've now got a few women lining up for Skype, and a few in a holding pattern, lol :D What I'm thinking about now is, what do I talk to her about whilst on Skype?!!! I can probably sort out some stuff from correspondence, but I still worry about running dry of stuff or coming across boring, assuming I get understood well enough at all (Think there is some sort of translator built in with it these days?) So apart from spring boarding of anything she might say and getting into the flow of it was wondering if anyone has any ideas on good stuff to say/ask when starting?
-
Anyway, present day concern is that I've now got a few women lining up for Skype, and a few in a holding pattern, lol :D What I'm thinking about now is, what do I talk to her about whilst on Skype?!!
The exact same things you'd talk about in person, in any initial meeting of this type?
If you are a good match initially , you'd likely find it flowed naturally..
no searching for topics ,they will just come up..
like you'd known each other awhile and shared some common interests ,sense of humor etc.
That doesn't mean a first convo that isn't perfect can't graduate into something.
I'm just saying they fact you are worrying about it,even a little, or about what to say, is likely more detrimental , or likely to lead to awkward silences, than just approaching it confidently and at ease with yourself and the situation.
Hold zero expectations..its just a pen pal.
So just have a normal conversation and see if it leads naturally, and if you seem to hit it off, if not move on.
To that point, I only chatted with women that had a decent level of English. My Russian isn't that good , and I simply din't worry that I might be missing someone, over my criteria.It was much more important to me to be able to communicate well, and be able to tell quickly if we'd hit it off.
If it was awkward ,then they weren't for me, or I wasn't meant for them.Simple as that.
-
Anyway, present day concern is that I've now got a few women lining up for Skype, and a few in a holding pattern, lol :D What I'm thinking about now is, what do I talk to her about whilst on Skype?!!! I can probably sort out some stuff from correspondence, but I still worry about running dry of stuff or coming across boring, assuming I get understood well enough at all (Think there is some sort of translator built in with it these days?) So apart from spring boarding of anything she might say and getting into the flow of it was wondering if anyone has any ideas on good stuff to say/ask when starting?
First, you only want one or two (at the most three for a short time only) girls on
Skype or the girls will run you ragged and you will screw it all up. Get the girls
on Skype then pick the best one. Skype with each one once or twice then pick
the best one.
A holding pattern? That's probably not a good idea. You need to get them on Skype
and weed them out to only one. If you can't decide whether Olga or Sveta is better
then you are going to have serious problems with this process. If none of the girls
seem better than the other then dump them all and start over.
You aren't the Trench Coat comedy and amusement show. You can't run out of things
to say, unless you aren't asking enough questions and listening to the answers. If you
are sitting on a webcam with a beautiful and interesting woman you should be able to
think of questions to ask or things to say.
You want a woman who you make a connection with. If you are both quietly staring
at the computer screen then you probably aren't that compatible.
Udachi!
Bill
-
Just a thought here and a part of my reason for thinking of a just fly in approach, if I were to use internet/agencies how would I avoid the ones that are just in it for there day job? Scam I guess in the lighter sense of the word, those where writing to western men or getting the agency to do it on their behalf is just a form of income - whether for monthly fee or credit approach. Sure you can skype but there is no certainty she is not on the same deal - in it for her cut. I hear that there are loads of women out there that do just that - use it as their second job. Now I know you said there are no guarantees and of course I could cast a wide net when/if doing this, but still it appears a pretty random approach. Hence my thought on the fly in approach to just avoid all that as often it appears from many on here to turn up a dud.
make it a thought - dismiss as DAFT - and PLAN ..
I'm very much a WOVO guy, but to think you can tip up and start making contacts .... megaDAFT
-
First, you only want one or two (at the most three for a short time only) girls on
Skype or the girls will run you ragged and you will screw it all up. Get the girls
on Skype then pick the best one. Skype with each one once or twice then pick
the best one.
A holding pattern? That's probably not a good idea. You need to get them on Skype
and weed them out to only one. If you can't decide whether Olga or Sveta is better
then you are going to have serious problems with this process. If none of the girls
seem better than the other then dump them all and start over.
You aren't the Trench Coat comedy and amusement show. You can't run out of things
to say, unless you aren't asking enough questions and listening to the answers. If you
are sitting on a webcam with a beautiful and interesting woman you should be able to
think of questions to ask or things to say.
You want a woman who you make a connection with. If you are both quietly staring
at the computer screen then you probably aren't that compatible.
Udachi!
Bill
Thanks guys, much appreciate your help here, think your probably both right its either going to flow naturally or it won't which will be a pain, particularly for those that are coming across well to me at the moment but is just the way it is I guess. I've got one at the moment I that's coming across well to me, quite active on the correspondence through whatsapp and a fair few pictures of, seems genuine and natural in responses. Not got to skype with her yet or got around to asking her as several of the others have come forward so as you say don't want too much on my hands at once. So "Hold zero expectations..its just a pen pal." probably true, but in that case it would be a shame since it seems to be going quite well so far. In a way would be a shame to lose a good pen pal but for progress to be made will have to get to skype I think as after all a real relationship is what I'm after. Like I've been thinking along the way and what you've stated its either naturally there or it isn't so just going to have to find out I think.
-
Thanks guys, much appreciate your help here, think your probably both right its either going to flow naturally or it won't which will be a pain, particularly for those that are coming across well to me at the moment but is just the way it is I guess. I've got one at the moment I that's coming across well to me, quite active on the correspondence through whatsapp and a fair few pictures of, seems genuine and natural in responses. Not got to skype with her yet or got around to asking her as several of the others have come forward so as you say don't want too much on my hands at once. So "Hold zero expectations..its just a pen pal." probably true, but in that case it would be a shame since it seems to be going quite well so far. In a way would be a shame to lose a good pen pal but for progress to be made will have to get to skype I think as after all a real relationship is what I'm after. Like I've been thinking along the way and what you've stated its either naturally there or it isn't so just going to have to find out I think.
Think not of what you will lose, only what you could win.
Lose the penpal comfort zone thought. Find your inner man and go for it!
-
You aren't the Trench Coat comedy and amusement show. You can't run out of things
to say, unless you aren't asking enough questions and listening to the answers. If you
are sitting on a webcam with a beautiful and interesting woman you should be able to
think of questions to ask or things to say.
He's not wrong to worry about it. Some RW complain that it's boring. Even if there are common interests to talk about that's going to depend on a person's conversational skills. There are those that do it naturally and can talk all day. Then there are those that struggle such as typical quiet people. And beautiful women will probably make it harder not easier 8)
Being able to hold a conversation over the phone/Skype is not extremely important to me. In person silences are accepted and not awkward (general Ukrainian theme).
@trenchcoat: I'd say to Skype simply for an added layer of scam prevention and to get to know her a little bit better but don't do it more than you are comfortable with. Don't plan a 1hr conversation daily if you can only hold out for 5-10mins every week. When the time comes to end the conversation, just wrap it up before it gets boring. If you think a 2nd Skype call will cause more harm than good then don't do it.
In the long haul stick to your A-game whether its writing or talking.
-
its just a pen pal." probably true, but in that case it would be a shame since it seems to be going quite well so far. In a way would be a shame to lose a good pen pal but for progress to be made will have to get to skype I think as after all a real relationship is what I'm after. Like I've been thinking along the way and what you've stated its either naturally there or it isn't so just going to have to find out I think.
The reason you have a good pen pal is that they are romantically interested in you.
Once most FSUW aren't romantically interested in you then they won't waste their
time with a pen pal. Finding, romancing and pursuing an FSUW takes a great deal
of time, money and effort. You won't have time to waste with pen pals.
When you do find an FSUW to pursue, she will be very much against you having other
female pen pals. Don't worry about dumping girls/pen pals. You are doing both of you
a favor, neither of you will find your soulmate until you move on.
When you dump a girl you don't need to be rude, just concise and firm.
Sample kick to the curb letter.
Hello _________________ (her name here)
I am going to pursue others, thank you for your interest. I wish you success, happiness,
good health, love and romance.
Udachi!
______________ Your name here
My advice is don't collect pen pals. Spend all your efforts to find the best girl for you.
Once you find an excellent girl get on a plane and visit her (ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP
PLAN) Don't recycle girls, the second place girl was second place for a reason. You only
want a first place girl.
Udachi!
Bill
-
And beautiful women will probably make it harder not easier 8)
Along the same idea, a woman interested in you, will make it easy for you to woo her.
-
The reason you have a good pen pal is that they are romantically interested in you.
Ah, good to hear, I did wonder, I'll see if I can move to making her more than a penpal very soon I think. Think below is right as well if I can find one that's naturally into me then it'll likely make the whole thing a lot easier going.
-
Well, had a skype with one of the girls recently, she was pretty stunning, prettier even than in her pictures which she was quite attractive in anyway for the most part. She looked a little different to the photos but in a good way same girl though. Conversation was ok, kind of had some questions prepared based on what I know of her already as a back up which was handy as been a little while since I had messaged her and conversation wasn't real easy flowing. It got a little easier when she introduced her cat :) but of course that can only last so long.
Main thing is its kind of difficult to tell on skype if there is much chemistry there, for a little bit I thought it looked there might but of course one person looking to the person on screen is not always same as in real life I guess, has anyone else on here found that? One of the other girls I am in contact mentioned it which surprised me but now having skyped its perhaps is more evident. I guess it doesn't have to be real full on, that can be awkward sometimes but I guess I would like to know for sure as it kind of tells if a girl likes you if you know what I mean for certain I think.
So thinking although skype is handy to see what the girl looks like more fully maybe its better to just message then go visit several do you think? I kind of find that its not always that easy to understand the other person on skype, girl in question was nice but a little quiet and although she put her English as Fluent she seemed to not understand English real fully as in know what you meant and get engaged in deep/lengthy conversation, i.e it was a bit question and answer for a lot of it.
-
Main thing is its kind of difficult to tell on skype if there is much chemistry there, for a little bit I thought it looked there might but of course one person looking to the person on screen is not always same as in real life I guess, has anyone else on here found that? One of the other girls I am in contact mentioned it which surprised me but now having skyped its perhaps is more evident. I guess it doesn't have to be real full on, that can be awkward sometimes but I guess I would like to know for sure as it kind of tells if a girl likes you if you know what I mean for certain I think.
You can tell more as if chemistry exist with Skype than without it. When I was in the looking around searching stage we didn't even have Skype. It was emails and telephone. The bottom line is this, nothing will substitute for a face to face personal meeting but technology does allow you more peeks than just 6-8 years ago.
If full blown chemistry, Blue vein throbber exists on Skype or any other communication social media, you might have other problems. Nothing will or should replace meeting in person. Skype isn't the same as meeting in person but, if you felt good about seeing and speaking with the woman, don't rule out anything.
So thinking although skype is handy to see what the girl looks like more fully maybe its better to just message then go visit several do you think? I kind of find that its not always that easy to understand the other person on skype, girl in question was nice but a little quiet and although she put her English as Fluent she seemed to not understand English real fully as in know what you meant and get engaged in deep/lengthy conversation, i.e it was a bit question and answer for a lot of it.
It can be damn difficult to understand her on Skype even if she has good English skills. It takes some getting to use to on your part and plenty of patience and understanding. You can have good conversations. there is a learning curve on your part of learning how to speak to a non-native speaker.
-
So thinking although skype is handy to see what the girl looks like more fully maybe its better to just message then go visit several do you think? I kind of find that its not always that easy to understand the other person on skype, girl in question was nice but a little quiet and although she put her English as Fluent she seemed to not understand English real fully as in know what you meant and get engaged in deep/lengthy conversation, i.e it was a bit question and answer for a lot of it.
Out of thousands of women on the internet, you should click with a few of them to the point you like them and they like you. Find one girl like that and then make a trip to see her but have a backup plan. If you find yourself not clicking with a girl on Skype or the phone, chances are you aren't going have a good conversation when face to face.
-
Thanks Faux Pas and BillyB I really do very much appreciate your input on this I think you both make important points. I think my communication was hampered a fair amount by firstly, microphone setting was perhaps a little low, it automatically sets this so have now manually turned it up (as girl had trouble hearing what I was saying at least a couple of times). Secondly, there was a bit of glare from my glasses from the light since she could only see my eyes when I tilted my head downwards - seems to be from flat screen bouncing back light so think altering height/angle should alleviate this (needed light on as was late evening, plus light from window is from the side). Thirdly, I think sometimes I spoke to fast, particularly near the end so she had trouble keeping up. This leads into what FP was saying about communicating with a non-native speaker. I think that although she had put down she was fluent, I wonder if she did that for the profile, her English is good, but perhaps not fluent, I asked her quite a basic question fairly slowly that I had to repeat three times or so before she got it, I didn't mind but kind of breaks the flow a bit I think.
So yeah guessing it was difficult at times to see my eyes, etc probably is quiet important when skyping. Avoiding too many questions I think will probably be helpful as well for me I think and try and get into a conversation more as the brief period when we did it started to flow a bit more I think.
-
Thanks Faux Pas and BillyB I really do very much appreciate your input on this I think you both make important points. I think my communication was hampered a fair amount by firstly, microphone setting was perhaps a little low, it automatically sets this so have now manually turned it up (as girl had trouble hearing what I was saying at least a couple of times). Secondly, there was a bit of glare from my glasses from the light since she could only see my eyes when I tilted my head downwards - seems to be from flat screen bouncing back light so think altering height/angle should alleviate this (needed light on as was late evening, plus light from window is from the side). Thirdly, I think sometimes I spoke to fast, particularly near the end so she had trouble keeping up. This leads into what FP was saying about communicating with a non-native speaker. I think that although she had put down she was fluent, I wonder if she did that for the profile, her English is good, but perhaps not fluent, I asked her quite a basic question fairly slowly that I had to repeat three times or so before she got it, I didn't mind but kind of breaks the flow a bit I think.
So yeah guessing it was difficult at times to see my eyes, etc probably is quiet important when skyping. Avoiding too many questions I think will probably be helpful as well for me I think and try and get into a conversation more as the brief period when we did it started to flow a bit more I think.
Yeah it can be a bit tricky. Because English isn't her first language and even if she thinks she is fluent, chances are that she is not. Knowing a language and being conversant in it isn't the same thing. Often it will take you to speak clear, concise and with no slang. Keep in mind she's learned textbook English and that is rarely spoken anymore anyplace. Don't speak slow as if she's an idiot but make sure you choose words that she's likely to know rather than those your friends do know. Remember most of her English was spoken to other Russian speakers that learned from the same textbook she did.
You'll need to learn her nuances of the language rather than her learning yours, especially initially. My first 6-8 conversations with my now wife were akin to painting the house. They felt quite labored. She knew English very well but her accent was much to thick (and very sexy) it was very difficult to understand until I learned her nuances and tendencies of pronunciation
-
Accent alone (yours and hers) is going to cause you communications gremlins.
You'll both get better at it, but this could be a small issue even years later ..
trust me!! lol
Part of the fun in this is how well you each deal with it. Do either of you get frustrated, or both laugh at the mistakes? That kind of thing is compatibility you want to be in tune with as you communicate more.
Don't take offense, but you do seem prone to over thinking this,
as well as seemingly wanting some guarantees or assurances, even if only slight ones.
It's natural to want that, but not realistic.
Looking for better ways to communicate(like skype) is good ,
and it should make the decision on who to see easier..
but it will never truly eliminate doubts or assure you of a woman's intentions or feelings.
You'll be lucky to figure that out face to face. ;D
So I'll bear the bad news.
There are none, zero, methods to really truly assure you!
You'll have to rely merely on gut feel and thinking with the big head.
and be confident in that.
or
You can take enough time (that's the real crux) in communicating regularly that you become absolutely or at least 99% confident in your decision to see this person.
Problem with that is, each person has a very individual level of when that level of trust is earned, and the women on the other end view any real dalliance as a keyboard romeo they've heard from 100 or 1000 times and quickly lose interest.
So you've likely got a tight rope to balance if looking for assurances to a level you're comfortable with.
Personally, I just viewed things much simpler.
If this woman, whom I've some interest in , lived 100 kilometers away, would I hesitate to meet her ? If I've done enough due diligence to say *absolutely yes!*, then go!!!
Why would any extra kilometers matter? It's not her fault I live around the world.
While some additional due diligence is savvy, too much is determental,
(for some guys it paralysis them completely)
so if I was to err , I'd err on the just go meet her and see what happens side,
it's just date. While the travel might be extensive, that's my problem for choosing to date around the world.
Keep in mind that somebody like FP or I, needed to make those choices with a far more involved travel scenario.
In your shoes, its a hop ,skip, and jump !!
and I'd met anyone that caught my fancy and dint show any immediate red flags.
That makes it a bit harder to relate to your plight, and makes it easier to be a bit rough on you. :) (even if unfounded)
Good luck!
-
I think my communication was hampered a fair amount by
firstly, microphone setting was perhaps a little low,
Secondly, there was a bit of glare from my glasses from the light since she could only see my eyes when I tilted my head downwards - seems to be from flat screen bouncing back light so think altering height/angle should alleviate this (needed light on as was late evening, plus light from window is from the side).
Thirdly, I think sometimes I spoke to fast, particularly near the end so she had trouble keeping up.
It was the bad microphone, glare off the glasses hiding your eyes, and fast pace talking fault for why things didn't progress with the girl. I don't think so. I've been on the phone with ladies where they can't see my face, the connection was bad and we had a huge language barrier, yet the ladies were thrilled to hear my voice and didn't want to end the conversation although we struggled. YOU need to find these kinds of girls. You may be a decent guy and you will eventually find her or you may have to make some adjustments to yourself to get the ladies excited to talk to you and you need to quit believing those excuses did you in. Think about it, if there was some difficulty talking to a lady, you had a hard time seeing her eyes due to glare off her glasses and her microphone didn't sound good, would you dump her for one or all those reasons? A woman excited about you wouldn't abandon you either for those reasons.
-
When you dump a girl you don't need to be rude, just concise and firm.
Sample kick to the curb letter.
Hello _________________ (her name here)
I am going to pursue others, thank you for your interest. I wish you success, happiness,
good health, love and romance.
Udachi!
______________ Your name here
A little harsh, beel ..although there is no easy way :)
I might say,
Dear ....
I have enjoyed our chats, but I now intend to meet a lady, in reality and do not think it is appropriate to continue to correspond.
I hope that you understand and I wish that you will meet a man with whom find happiness.
Take care, ..
I have never had a 'f u, you bar-steward, response', if any thing a polite wish for success.
'Others' - IMHO - implies the wrong sort of message.
My advice is don't collect pen pals. Spend all your efforts to find the best girl for you.
Once you find an excellent girl get on a plane and visit her (ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP
PLAN) Don't recycle girls, the second place girl was second place for a reason. You only
want a first place girl.
Agree with all - except the 'back up plan' ... We will never agree on this.. Yes... we Europeans have a shorter plane ride - but 'back up plans' need attention to keep 'live' and this might blow up in your face...
IMHO concentrate in finding who you perceive as a 'keeper' - you may ultimately decide you are not for each other - but the time invested beforehand will mean you'll find that out, more quickly...and probably you'll enjoy your time together, more, anyway..
-
Agree with all - except the 'back up plan' ... We will never agree on this.. Yes... we Europeans have a shorter plane ride - but 'back up plans' need attention to keep 'live' and this might blow up in your face...
IMHO concentrate in finding who you perceive as a 'keeper' - you may ultimately decide you are not for each other - but the time invested beforehand will mean you'll find that out, more quickly...and probably you'll enjoy your time together, more, anyway..
Some guys have a back up plan of talking to several other ladies before
leaving for their trip. In my opinion that is a mistake. You would be dating
girls who wore second place ribbons. A man should only pursue a first
place girl (in my opinion).
My backup plan was to ask girls out for tea that I've never spoken/written
to before. It can't blow up in my face because it only happens if things
didn't work out. That's exactly how I met Angel Eyes. Many men tend
to think that their successful method is either the best way and some think
it's the only way, I know that others succeed using different strategies
and tactics than I do.
What I do here at the forum is explain my theories that I've developed
and distilled over nearly a decade of pursuing and dating FSUW, but
they are only theories.
Udachi!
Bill
-
Yeah it can be a bit tricky. Because English isn't her first language and even if she thinks she is fluent, chances are that she is not. Knowing a language and being conversant in it isn't the same thing. Often it will take you to speak clear, concise and with no slang. Keep in mind she's learned textbook English and that is rarely spoken anymore anyplace. Don't speak slow as if she's an idiot but make sure you choose words that she's likely to know rather than those your friends do know. Remember most of her English was spoken to other Russian speakers that learned from the same textbook she did.
You'll need to learn her nuances of the language rather than her learning yours, especially initially. My first 6-8 conversations with my now wife were akin to painting the house. They felt quite labored. She knew English very well but her accent was much to thick (and very sexy) it was very difficult to understand until I learned her nuances and tendencies of pronunciation
Thanks FP that is very handy to know, well she's agreed to another skype at the weekend so not too bad, I wasnt sure if she would. She didn't really want to message though just skype which surprised me a little as I thought the conversation was a bit laboured in parts in terms of me asking questions, like I say it only really eased up when the cat was brought into it, lol - the rest I kind of felt like I was doing most of the work keeping things going which perhaps I kept it going a bit too long. Then again it would have been around 10pm her time so perhaps she was getting tired. There are other girls that I have got lined up to skype with but I want to try and have a decent run of it so knowing the scene on this is helpful. I generally got about four girls who I've got to work through skyping and get to the one or start over. I think any of these four are number ones from what I have seen so far, so I guess just need to get acquainted with them more through skype before going.
-
I kind of felt like I was doing most of the work keeping things going which perhaps I kept it going a bit too long.
You're the man. You got more responsibility to keep the conversation going smooth and not let it get awkward. Never let things go on too long. No matter how much a woman wants to talk to you, be the first one to end the conversation. I almost always the first one to end conversations. A woman would admire the fact you're a busy man, you're not desperate, not clingy, and you're not the kind of guy that doesn't know when to stop talking. Also, being the first to end the conversation makes the woman wanting more.
-
Some guys have a back up plan of talking to several other ladies before
leaving for their trip. In my opinion that is a mistake. You would be dating
girls who wore second place ribbons. A man should only pursue a first
place girl (in my opinion).
My backup plan was to ask girls out for tea that I've never spoken/written
to before. It can't blow up in my face because it only happens if things
didn't work out. That's exactly how I met Angel Eyes.
Thank you for explaining - I ASSumed - you meant a backup 'harem' :-[
Many men tend
to think that their successful method is either the best way and some think
it's the only way, I know that others succeed using different strategies
and tactics than I do.
I might fit your 'bill' ... ;D
NEVER can understand someone who says they are looking for a wife and turns up in the FSU believing the ladies will be 'happy' to be part of a list on a constraining schedule
What I do here at the forum is explain my theories that I've developed
and distilled over nearly a decade of pursuing and dating FSUW, but
they are only theories.
Udachi!
Bill
There you have it ....It takes an age to really know someone....
-
NEVER can understand someone who says they are looking for a wife and turns up in the FSU believing the ladies will be 'happy' to be part of a list on a constraining schedule
Females enter beauty contests with slim chance of winning, given the number of contestants, etc. Yet they willingly do it for the excitement of the competition and, if they win, they know they were the best.
A confident woman is not afraid of being one of many whom a man may meet on a trip, just as a man in their home city meets many other women besides themselves over time.
It is only the psychology of looking at it in a short time frame that makes it a little odd.
But logical women (and men) can get past this psychological hangup.
A given man may meet a given woman and 15 other women over a year time period or over a one month time period. There is no difference except in the minds of small, inflexible persons.
-
Females enter beauty contests with slim chance of winning, given the number of contestants, etc. Yet they willingly do it for the excitement of the competition and, if they win, they know they were the best.
A pretty daft analogy - comparing a 'beauty contest' to marriage..
A confident woman is not afraid of being one of many whom a man may meet on a trip, just as a man in their home city meets many other women besides themselves over time.
It has nothing to do with 'confidence' .. In my case, rightly or wrongly - I gave 100 percent to one woman per trip and we benefited from the exclusivity to get to know each other better.
ALL the ladies I met were attractive enough to be confident - yet sought to ensure that exclusivity was factual and even informed me that if they had thought they were part of a schedule - they would never have considered me 'serious' and sought to meet - and indeed - if exclusivity would have been doubted - I would have been looking for 'plan B' :D
It is only the psychology of looking at it in a short time frame that makes it a little odd.
That is - in essence - why we may differ. The confidence established due to that agreed period of exclusivity meant we could relax.
But logical women (and men) can get past this psychological hangup.
A given man may meet a given woman and 15 other women over a year time period or over a one month time period. There is no difference except in the minds of small, inflexible persons.
I beg to differ - travelling a greater distance requires a deal more 'prior knowledge' of the intended date - so I think trying to date like one might try a home is 'unwise' ..
-
The old one vs many debate still continues.
To me it has always been a matter of personal preference and habits.
Some men are used to date multiple women at the same time at home, there is no reason why they should not do the same in the FSU. The level of serious may be lower, but at the same time if they do not create false exectations about it the women can choose to accept it.
If the right chemistry and match develops, exclusiveness will develop as well.
Men who are used to be committed to one person at a time should continue that method. They would get confused by too many options and as a result may spoil all of them. For them even as backup plan sightseeing would be preferred, as a rebound might not lead to a good judgement.
Use the same thing as at home, but understand that in order to do that you may need more time. On the other hand if you are in a hurry to get married there is something wrong anyway.
-
Hi Shadow
the reasoned arbitrator - as ever :D
-
You're the man. You got more responsibility to keep the conversation going smooth and not let it get awkward. Never let things go on too long. No matter how much a woman wants to talk to you, be the first one to end the conversation. I almost always the first one to end conversations. A woman would admire the fact you're a busy man, you're not desperate, not clingy, and you're not the kind of guy that doesn't know when to stop talking. Also, being the first to end the conversation makes the woman wanting more.
Yeah, spoke to another different woman since, it went much, much better, so think it was down to the woman before, previous woman conversation was hard to develop and it was hard work, latest woman it was much more flowing and easy. Funny though, first woman had put down fluent for her level of English, second had it as Good, but if anything second woman understood way more easier than the first what I was saying and spoke a lot more as well. Thing is though, though I ended it first this time as advised I was wondering what the best way to end it is, reason(s) to give? as I want to avoid seeming too disinterested.
-
Some women don't judge their abilities in foreign language very well. I had a few experiences like yours. Woman said she speaks English good and I could barely understand her. Woman said she speaks bad but instead spoke good English.
-
Not on the foreign language ability thingy, but . . .
Most highly intelligent people realize there is a lot they do not know.
Low level people don't realize this.
Get together a group of very mixed guys for a casual event, and it will be the least intelligent ones who blab on the most and know a lot of things with certainty.
-
Not on the foreign language ability thingy, but . . .
Most highly intelligent people realize there is a lot they do not know.
Low level people don't realize this.
Get together a group of very mixed guys for a casual event, and it will be the least intelligent ones who blab on the most and know a lot of things with certainty.
AQre you sure of that? ;D
-
Yeah, spoke to another different woman since, it went much, much better, so think it was down to the woman before, previous woman conversation was hard to develop and it was hard work, latest woman it was much more flowing and easy. Funny though, first woman had put down fluent for her level of English, second had it as Good, but if anything second woman understood way more easier than the first what I was saying and spoke a lot more as well. Thing is though, though I ended it first this time as advised I was wondering what the best way to end it is, reason(s) to give? as I want to avoid seeming too disinterested.
Language skills come in many different forms. Someone may be near perfect in written language, yet struggle to speak and even more to understand especially when there is an accent or slang involved. Remember that all is based on experience.
-
Think also some women are perhaps better conversationalist than others and/or they have more interest in some men than others and put in conversation effort accordingly. The first woman I Skype with I tended to find I was making a fair bit of input in written communication to her where she perhaps not as much. Second woman I spoke to probably more even on this front I think. Think perhaps some woman are perhaps lazy in communication, finding I'm getting a bit of the 'how's you' messages a bit meaning up to me to put the effort into the conversation a lot. If I ask 'how's you' then I tend to get the 'fine/good, and you?' lol
-
Think also some women are perhaps better conversationalist than others and/or they have more interest in some men than others and put in conversation effort accordingly. The first woman I Skype with I tended to find I was making a fair bit of input in written communication to her where she perhaps not as much. Second woman I spoke to probably more even on this front I think. Think perhaps some woman are perhaps lazy in communication, finding I'm getting a bit of the 'how's you' messages a bit meaning up to me to put the effort into the conversation a lot. If I ask 'how's you' then I tend to get the 'fine/good, and you?' lol
How 's you might already not be understood. Use 'how are you'. The question itself is something odd for Russian perspective. It is asked from anyone, and in general a genuine reply with detailed explanation about one's situation is not what is expected back.
The mentality is direct, and if your questions are not you will need a lot of effort to get the answers you want. This unless the other person in the conversation has experience with foreigners and can predict where it is heading.
-
Yeah, spoke to another different woman since, it went much, much better, so think it was down to the woman before, previous woman conversation was hard to develop and it was hard work, latest woman it was much more flowing and easy. Funny though, first woman had put down fluent for her level of English, second had it as Good, but if anything second woman understood way more easier than the first what I was saying and spoke a lot more as well. Thing is though, though I ended it first this time as advised I was wondering what the best way to end it is, reason(s) to give? as I want to avoid seeming too disinterested.
I have several theories regarding this but I will try to give you
the condensed version.
Some very hot girls will expect you to entertain them and they
will be bored when they are not entertained. I always dump that
variety as while they might be nice to look at they are quite boring
in most other respects.
Some girls are shy, and I've found the best way to break them out
of this is by making them laugh.
If things don't go swimmingly after the first or second Skype
then I pull the plug. They either aren't sufficiently interested
or attracted to my dashing and charming self so I would find
a girl who is.
There are millions of FSUW and you only have to find one
good girl for you. Don't waste your time or the girls time on
a mismatch or a so-so match.
You've asked a lot of questions in this thread about the conversation(s) with FSUW. I realize that talking to a very
interesting and beautiful girl can seem daunting at first and
you want everything to go perfectly. You aren't perfect so
don't worry about it.
If you mess up, you mess up, just shrug it off and soldier on.
Or blame it on her. ___________ (her name here) your smile
is so beautiful that I've become mesmerized and totally forgot
what I was going to say. Tell me _________ (her name again)
how is it possible that such a beautiful and charming girl isn't
married?
The more FSUW you talk to the better you will get at having these
conversations. I am a salesman and have been for most of my
adult life so these things are second nature to me. I can assure
you that you will get better with practice.
Udachi!
Bill
-
Think also some women are perhaps better conversationalist than others and/or they have more interest in some men than others and put in conversation effort accordingly. The first woman I Skype with I tended to find I was making a fair bit of input in written communication to her where she perhaps not as much. Second woman I spoke to probably more even on this front I think. Think perhaps some woman are perhaps lazy in communication, finding I'm getting a bit of the 'how's you' messages a bit meaning up to me to put the effort into the conversation a lot. If I ask 'how's you' then I tend to get the 'fine/good, and you?' lol
Some women aren't lazy but trying to figure you out. There are people out there that can get them to talk. Will it be you? How are you and how's the weather talk everyday is boring. Bring up things you did that she may find interesting or think highly of you. If you fixed your car or plumbing today, bring it up. She needs to know you have multiple skills besides sitting on a chair by the computer all day. Over time she may begin to think you're a handy man and have a brain. Later she may even ask you for solutions for her or someone she knows. She'll begin to talk more.
-
Thanks, BillyB that's good advice, I can be quite handy with stuff so if they appreciate that its a bonus - don't think many women in England appreciate those qualities that much unfortunately. Anyway, just a curious thing has come up of recent - I notice a fair few women have down travel agent for there occupation which makes me wonder can there really be that many travel agents? I'm don't think we have that many here in the UK. Is she being straight up or is she perhaps unemployed or something and prefers not to put that, which I can understand of course, Some other professions seem frequent as well, English Teachers for example, just something I've noticed a bit and wonder if its cause for concern at all?
-
Ok, just a quick update, things seem to be going well ;D I've worked my way through them and am down to one :D So many thanks to you all on this, you've been very helpful with your advice, particularly Faux Pas - yes I will be on a flight to see her shortly in the next few weeks which is what I wanted :) I'm taking it in my stride though as I know you can end up with egg on your face at any time in this process/dating scene. The lady in question who I am meeting seems very genuine and sincere judging from the skype and correspondence and her reactions/actions and we seem to communicate well (not the lady I was having difficulties on this front earlier, lol). I know its always possible to get it wrong but as far as I can tell we seem on a good footing here. I've previously worked in security jobs so meeting a lot of people you tend to get an instinct when something is not quite right, however no one is infallible.
Anyway, I'm going abroad to meet up with her, flights booked, so will be making the journey, she will be joining me for a few days to show me around :D I'm pretty confident she'll show up, odds on I think and if not it will be a cheap holiday for a few days (from UK), but she's been reliable so far - emails regularly, keeps skype times, etc. The other girls I was communicating to dropped out along the way or I didn't get back to the ones I didn't feel were right after a time - not what I like doing but couldn't see it going anywhere and was taking up so much time. This one though I felt was very attractive and we got on well over the course of several skype sessions, we seem well matched. It's been pretty quick I guess, coming up to three months, but to be honest I prefer it that way, rather than a lengthy expedition so hoping it will all work out when I meet her, I'm pretty relaxed about it as know I cant count on anything so just looking forward to a nice holiday I hope and see what occurs. She seems interested at any rate which is good news for me - she kind of hinted a visit, then I hinted I might come and next time we communicated I knew it was my time to move, so she seems serious.
Well, brings me to my question, I obviously want to do my best to avoid this going pear shaped (I know no guarantees) However, we are dealing with two different cultures here - she/we seem to be able to talk about a lot of stuff with ease but still I don't want to put my foot in it if it can be avoided. I notice on Elena's Models, Elena sells a coaching course for $300 and was wondering if any of you guys have ever bought it - essentially it is a lot of advice on pdf etc to read through or listen to. So just wondering if it was any good? needed? I'm not into duping anyone, but I don't want to mess anything up either. I've been doing well so far I think, as far as I know anyway and am sincere in my wish to find and marry a FSU woman if all works out. So just wondering what you guys have thought - its apparently a lot of info though of course I don't usually pay $300 for a load of info, if you know what I mean.
-
Well, brings me to my question, I obviously want to do my best to avoid this going pear shaped (I know no guarantees) However, we are dealing with two different cultures here - she/we seem to be able to talk about a lot of stuff with ease but still I don't want to put my foot in it if it can be avoided. I notice on Elena's Models, Elena sells a coaching course for $300 and was wondering if any of you guys have ever bought it - essentially it is a lot of advice on pdf etc to read through or listen to. So just wondering if it was any good? needed? I'm not into duping anyone, but I don't want to mess anything up either. I've been doing well so far I think, as far as I know anyway and am sincere in my wish to find and marry a FSU woman if all works out. So just wondering what you guys have thought - its apparently a lot of info though of course I don't usually pay $300 for a load of info, if you know what I mean.
Personally, I wouldn't buy it. There's not that much difference in your two cultures that you are in any danger exploding a doodoo bomb and doing something stupid. I would suggest you visit the Trip Report section archives of RWD. Likely you can find there all you might need in the way of etiquette snafus you might encounter. Trust me, if it's happened ever, it's probably there. Good manners are most generally universal and if you practice them at home it will show in Russia and be appreciated there as well even if you do make some mistakes.
Be yourself. Keep in mind you are going to meet this woman so you can both decide if you want to continue into a relationship. If the meeting goes off as you hope, wine, dine and romance her. Remember, it's still boy meets girl and you'll need to win her heart. Forget East versus West, forget Britain meeting Russia. This is man meets woman and it's "game on"
Good Luck
-
she kind of hinted a visit, then I hinted I might come and next time we communicated I knew it was my time to move, so she seems serious.
It's great that you decided to go but did you get all the deal breaker issues figured out? When I was communicating with ladies and some hinted at a visit, I would tell them I will consider a visit but make sure important questions are answered first if it weren't already done. What if you're atheist and she's Christian or Muslim? What if you don't want or can't have children and she wants children? What if your views are conservative and she's liberal? You guys communicate fine now but you could be hating each other for the rest of your lives after a few debates. I've seen people on this forum waste a year of their lives with someone only to find out they shouldn't get married based on issues that could've been discussed before a first visit.
As far as the $300 coaching course goes, I wouldn't buy it. You can get everything you need at the forum and if you can't find it, start a new thread and ask for tips pertaining to travel, customs, manners, etc....
-
I notice on Elena's Models, Elena sells a coaching course for $300 and was wondering if any of you guys have ever bought it
Personally I wouldn't buy it especially from RUSSIAN lady! How do you know she isn't teaching you to go to an expensive restaurants, buying expensive clothes to make her happy?!!! You do not know until you've read it - the $300 you've spent on!
Would you buy $300 if someone advice you how to make money on stock market? Horse racing?!!
-
Personally I wouldn't buy it especially from RUSSIAN lady!
I think she's been in Australia long enough now (17-18 years?) for some of that to have worn off!
How do you know she isn't teaching you to go to an expensive restaurants, buying expensive clothes to make her happy?!!! You do not know until you've read it - the $300 you've spent on!
Because that would be totally against what she has written on the website itself.
Would you buy $300 if someone advice you how to make money on stock market? Horse racing?!!
Depends on who is offering the advice, and what their track record (pun not intended) is like.
-
It's great that you decided to go but did you get all the deal breaker issues figured out? When I was communicating with ladies and some hinted at a visit, I would tell them I will consider a visit but make sure important questions are answered first if it weren't already done. What if you're atheist and she's Christian or Muslim? What if you don't want or can't have children and she wants children? What if your views are conservative and she's liberal? You guys communicate fine now but you could be hating each other for the rest of your lives after a few debates. I've seen people on this forum waste a year of their lives with someone only to find out they shouldn't get married based on issues that could've been discussed before a first visit.
As far as the $300 coaching course goes, I wouldn't buy it. You can get everything you need at the forum and if you can't find it, start a new thread and ask for tips pertaining to travel, customs, manners, etc....
Well, I guess there were some indicators on her profile, yes to relocating, having children ans N/A to religion. This fits in well enough with me, i.e I want children and would be easiest if she relocated an UK isn't a bad travel distance back to visit home country. I'm atheist so while N/A could theoretically mean anything (I think I put the same on my profile N/A to avoid putting of potential matches) I'm guessing she's not really extreme one particular way. She seems easy going and probably not the religious type. I'm ready to be at ease on religious/political fronts as although I have views/positions I don't see it as helpful being to ardent with someone whom your in a relationship with as opposed to a debating situation. I'm guess I'm quite easy going and tend not to bring up my beliefs in daily life, particularly if I knew other half did not appreciate them.
I know what your saying though, I know a fair bit about her already and her personality tells me a lot more also I think. That still leaves some areas to broach which I am steadily working my way through as opportunity arises between now and meeting her. For sure when you meet there might suddenly turn up a big stumbling block or some way down the line. I'm not expecting a full connection on every issue from politics to religion I don't really want some political issue/argument/position or otherwise get in the way of a relationship I just see it as bringing in unnecessary problems into the equation - as long as its not real extreme granted, but like I say she seems easy going that I don't think she thinks of these things much.
I don't think there are any issues that I would consider deal breakers with her, some are more prefers and hopes, but I've done most of them now so just a couple more left but I'm thinking it should be ok. Probably should have covered them before agreeing to trip but I think I got a good impression along the way as to roughly where I stood on most of it even if I didn't directly ask her. Anyway, thank you FP for your advice, again indispensable :) yeah, we seem to interact quite well naturally so far being ourselves so to hear continue to do this is helpful - also boy meets girl stuff will ensure I do ;) if all goes to plan that is, hopefully.
-
Personally I wouldn't buy it especially from RUSSIAN lady! How do you know she isn't teaching you to go to an expensive restaurants, buying expensive clothes to make her happy?!!! You do not know until you've read it - the $300 you've spent on!
Would you buy $300 if someone advice you how to make money on stock market? Horse racing?!!
I've read quite a bit of Elena's writing and advice. Most of it was quite good. I've even
translated much of her advice telling FSUW what to do. I bought her book a decade
ago and it was worth the price in my opinion (it wasn't that expensive maybe $20)
-
elena models vs russiancupid?
-
Huh, ok guys bit of an unorthodox situation I appear to be in - so the girl I am meeting I am meeting in Kiev (I know I originally said I was looking in St. Petersburg but it just ended up messaging girls I found attractive elsewhere, or they messaged/EOI me). I messaged her originally, however, she lives in Mariupol so a long train journey, she said 15-16 hours originally, I just looked it up and its more like 20 hours (crazy I know, its only a about a 3and a half hour flight from the UK to the Ukraine, and about the same again for me traveling to and from airport). Well, apparently their airport at Donetsk is closed to all but military aircraft, I don't doubt it. Hence why she's agreed to visit me in Kiev.
Today however in her letter she said she is going to book train tickets this weekend and if I have the opportunity to help her with the expense. I've already paid for a single room in the hotel for her as understandably we've only just met, she hasn't asked for any money directly, I paid for hotel just put it in her name, I can cancel and get a reasonable refund on this and flights. I also know not to send her money for train tickets, I can refund her when I see her (or possible pay for them for her online and email them to her) but my question is, is she straight up? She is going to show me around Kiev and we have talked about places to see, concerts, buildings, boat tours, etc. I've skyped with her about three times (plus inadvertently missed one skype, my bad) and we messaged daily now for the past couple of weeks since I stated that I would visit. I guess messages often about 2-3 inches long on both sides talking about all sorts.
The impression I've got so far is that she is sincere, genuine and up front. The money side doesn't bother me, but the motivation does. She works as a travel agent so she tells me, so no doubt doesn't get good pay, if this is correct. So, is she really willing to make a 20 hour journey? Does she just want a free holiday? - I get the impression the man pays for the women in terms of events/attractions over there? Request for direct money coming up? or is Straight up but has money concerns as its not real prosperous out there atm. To me she seems to be going a strange way about it if she is after a few bucks. I'm imagining it takes her half hour to write messages each night and shes quite soft and happy most of the time. Pretty sure she lives in Mariupol as sent her some flowers etc for woman's day. Getting a request like this wasn't really great as it doesn't sit well with me and everything seemed fine apart from that. So just wondering what you guys thought as could really use your guidance on this?
-
Do your own research. How much, actually, is the ticket going to cost? I think you will find it is not that expensive.
I have always had a hard and fast rule. NO MONEY BEFORE MEETING.
But you should have known that such would be the issue before you ever began correspondence. The easiest scam to run is something out of the war zone.
How many times have you seen her on Skype? Or Viber? (I mean really seen her.) If the answer is none, run like hell.
(As an aside, I knew of a gal in Slavyansk. She said that she could not get a car to Kharkiv because it would cost her at least $200 US. When you went to the local paper, there were advertisements for private cars leaving each day for under $20 US round trip.)
-
Jeez, how expensive is that train ticket??? You should have been thinking about this from beginning in deciding to meet. Long ways from Mariupol. Who suggested to meet in Kiev? Sure made meeting reeeeeally simple for you. This whole west/fsu thing is about risk, nothing is 100%. Either suggest to buy ticket( you can do that online) or lay back and see what she says/hints.
Edit: 1st class train ticket~$30usd, 2nd class $12 and 3rd class $7. Maybe she'll have enough money to buy that 3rd class ticket to see you Trenchy????
If your interested:
http://booking.uz.gov.ua/en/
-
Well, apparently their airport at Donetsk is closed to all but military aircraft, I don't doubt it.
Have you never followed any news about Ukraine, Trenchcoat? The battle for Donetsk Airport was one of the defining periods of the initial Russian invasion. It lasted for months, and resulted in the total destruction of a once-beautiful (and nearly new) international airport.
...Hence why she's agreed to visit me in Kiev.
Today however in her letter she said she is going to book train tickets this weekend and if I have the opportunity to help her with the expense. I've already paid for a single room in the hotel for her as understandably we've only just met, she hasn't asked for any money directly, I paid for hotel just put it in her name, I can cancel and get a reasonable refund on this and flights. I also know not to send her money for train tickets, I can refund her when I see her (or possible pay for them for her online and email them to her) but my question is, is she straight up?
Edit: 1st class train ticket~$30usd, 2nd class $12 and 3rd class $7. Maybe she'll have enough money to buy that 3rd class ticket to see you Trenchy????
Totally agree with LAman. Considering how much you're going to spend on this trip, would you really begrudge the price of a decent lunch to meet a lady who, from your description, could possibly become Mrs Trenchcoat? I also met a woman from Mariupol, but in my case she travelled to Rostov-na-Donu in Russia - also a long way, and costing rather more than a trip to Kyiv, but I had no hesitation in buying the ticket for her.
She is going to show me around Kiev and we have talked about places to see, concerts, buildings, boat tours, etc. I've skyped with her about three times (plus inadvertently missed one skype, my bad) and we messaged daily now for the past couple of weeks since I stated that I would visit. I guess messages often about 2-3 inches long on both sides talking about all sorts.
I'd had the same sort of interaction with Skype and email that you had, and she seemed pretty genuine, so I was prepared to take the risk of her not showing up. If I couldn't afford that, then I couldn't afford to make the trip itself.
She turned up on time, met me at the airport, and we spent a few days together before I decided that she wasn't the right person for me.
The impression I've got so far is that she is sincere, genuine and up front. The money side doesn't bother me, but the motivation does. She works as a travel agent so she tells me, so no doubt doesn't get good pay, if this is correct. So, is she really willing to make a 20 hour journey? Does she just want a free holiday? - I get the impression the man pays for the women in terms of events/attractions over there? Request for direct money coming up? or is Straight up but has money concerns as its not real prosperous out there atm. To me she seems to be going a strange way about it if she is after a few bucks. I'm imagining it takes her half hour to write messages each night and shes quite soft and happy most of the time. Pretty sure she lives in Mariupol as sent her some flowers etc for woman's day. Getting a request like this wasn't really great as it doesn't sit well with me and everything seemed fine apart from that. So just wondering what you guys thought as could really use your guidance on this?
You're a suspicious dude, aren't you? There's a saying here that, if you look hard enough for scammers, you will find them. The interaction you've described just doesn't sound like standard scammer behaviour. Of course she could be playing you, but it doesn't really seem so, BASED ON WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN. Live a little - give her the benefit of the doubt until there is NO doubt of her good or bad intentions, then decide what to do. Spend the $30 and buy her the train ticket.
-
, she lives in Mariupol so a long train journey, she said 15-16 hours originally, I just looked it up and its more like 20 hours (crazy I know, its only a about a 3and a half hour flight from the UK to the Ukraine, and about the same again for me traveling to and from airport). Well, apparently their airport at Donetsk is closed to all but military aircraft, I don't doubt it. Hence why she's agreed to visit me in Kiev.
Below is a before and after photo of the airport. Right now it's not up to Western standards in safety and cleanliness. Also the metal detectors aren't working and it's difficult to locate baggage claim. Mariupol was next on Russia's hit list before they stopped advancing. Mariupol did get bombed some before things cooled down. I usually advise men to visit the woman in her hometown but I'll give you a pass for meeting her in Kiev.
Today however in her letter she said she is going to book train tickets this weekend and if I have the opportunity to help her with the expense. I've already paid for a single room in the hotel for her as understandably we've only just met, she hasn't asked for any money directly, I paid for hotel just put it in her name, I can cancel and get a reasonable refund on this and flights.
So just wondering what you guys thought as could really use your guidance on this?
Here's the thing. You should never send money to a woman you haven't met but you agreed to meet her in Kiev so you'll be starting off the wrong foot if you give off signals you don't trust her. A train ticket isn't much. If she were a scammer, she would hit you hard for something more expensive by telling you she lost her Iphone and need a replacement. If she's a decent girl, she's taking a chance meeting you in Kiev. Some men never show up and leave a lady stranded in Kiev. She has to trust you that you are providing a place for her to stay. If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure this woman was into me through our communications and that I trusted her to be sincere and I would offer to send her the money for the train. If there weren't potential danger in her area of the country, I would insist visiting her in her environment or no visit at all.
-
You know that you can buy the train ticket without giving the money directly to her? You guys in Merry Old England have it pretty good compared to us guys here in the States. Your ticket is probably around USD $200 to make it to Kyiv. It is easier for you to get there than your woman.
I agree with the other guys. Buy the ticket. Get her the best for the trip. You won't look greedy and your total investment is not expensive. Hell. For USD $300 that's a night out on the town in Los Angeles.
-
ok, ok guys I see the point, guess I just panicked there and stressed out a bit - I knew the situation wasn't great there but did not know it was that bad. I guess I just saw the demand for loads of dosh coming, hopefully it won't, don't think it will now I've relaxed back down a bit, thank you guys for that, but guess we'll see anyway soon. I just don't like the idea of being pushed as I know some women end up taking you for a ride which is where I don't want to be. I'm quite hopeful on this relationship up till now and am used to anything decent going pear shaped for me so I guess I saw a downer coming here when hopefully it will still be ok, I'll no doubt find out tomorrow. Still like you say, a train ticket is cheap for me so I'll do that and Email it to her, I can afford third for her at least ;D lol
Nah, don't worry I'll get her a decent carriage :)
Much appropriate all of your help and contributions here, I was in a bit of a one for a while there, phew!
-
All in all, pretty silly to be going to see one gal only, when there are thousands available.
Don't be surprised when you end up spending your time alone in a hotel room.
-
Yes, I agree with ML. I do not agree with the WOVO approach at all. WOVO makes no sense to me at all, spend $1200 maybe on plane tickets, all that time...and when you get there you have no idea if the girl is going to show or stand you up....and even if she is legit and does show up, what are the chances that you will even have good chemistry with each other and even want to make a second date of it? Really maybe only 33%. Then, what are the chances that a 2nd date eventually turns into something very serious? Not very good at all. For so many reasons, WOVO is a very bad plan and idea.
WSVS (Write Several Visit Several / Not even necessarily write "Many", but at least write "Several" (ie at least 3)) is a much more intelligent plan. Using an agency like Mordinsons or using Pavel in Kiev or Mila in Kharkiv or Mamba or VK is sort of a form of WSVS, in my opinion. All are superior options to WOVO.
As ML said, there is a very good chance you are going to waste a ton of your precious time, get there, and the (1) girl will not even show. If you have lots of spare time to waste (your time is not worth anything), and plenty of money to waste on plane tickets, then sure I guess WOVO is great. But I personally think you are making a mistake visiting this (1) girl only. Pavel knows sooooo many nice, decent girls. Mila knows sooooooo many nice, decent girls. You could meet maybe 10 girls at Mordinsons. There are soooooo many nice decent girls on Mamba. And you are spending all this time and money........on (1) girl? :(
I do not agree with what you are doing at all.
-
For some, if a connection is there, a WOVO is the only way to go. But, as for me, I would always have plan B, C, D, etc. The risk is ALL on our part. We're making the trip. They aren't.
-
ok, ok guys I see the point, guess I just panicked there and stressed out a bit - I knew the situation wasn't great there but did not know it was that bad. I guess I just saw the demand for loads of dosh coming, hopefully it won't, don't think it will now I've relaxed back down a bit, thank you guys for that, but guess we'll see anyway soon. I just don't like the idea of being pushed as I know some women end up taking you for a ride which is where I don't want to be. I'm quite hopeful on this relationship up till now and am used to anything decent going pear shaped for me so I guess I saw a downer coming here when hopefully it will still be ok, I'll no doubt find out tomorrow. Still like you say, a train ticket is cheap for me so I'll do that and Email it to her, I can afford third for her at least ;D lol
Nah, don't worry I'll get her a decent carriage :)
Much appropriate all of your help and contributions here, I was in a bit of a one for a while there, phew!
when i went to russia women paid for themselves to see me, other than an apartment. I offer sometimes to pay, and they refuse, even if they are making next to nothing, as they don't want to give off the wrong impression. when i met my ex i paid for food,travel, all the little things, she paid for her tickets. after we parted and i came back, i offered to pay for her tickets and expenses to see me at greece, as we reached that stage where i felt comfortable to spend money on her.I don't like giving money before i meet someone, but doesn't mean you shouldn't. In long road you will ened to cover everything for your fsu wife so get used to it now, if you buy her tickets, get her first class, worse thing a man could do is look cheap. They are not looking for a foreign man so they can move from poverty into poverty, they are looking for a bit of class, and $30 opposed to $7 isn't much of a difference.
-
Totally agree with the WSVS strategy which is what I've used so far. One thing I'm learning is that FSU women have a lower tolerance for men dating others even when in the initial non-committed phase which quite frankly is slightly irritating as at that phase neither of us owe anything to the other. It seems that the commitment phase comes sooner in their minds.
-
Guppy Captain,
Particularly when a guy is coming from the US. That is, minimally, a two grand investment. To meet one woman on a first date and then not have it go right is a total waste of money.
Moreover, the women that are online are being solicited by (literally) hundreds of guys. It is unrealistic for women to apply the single relationship standard in the face of the heavy commitment from the guy.
-
Yes, I agree with ML. I do not agree with the WOVO approach at all. WOVO makes no sense to me at all, spend $1200 maybe on plane tickets, all that time...and when you get there you have no idea if the girl is going to show or stand you up....and even if she is legit and does show up, what are the chances that you will even have good chemistry with each other and even want to make a second date of it? Really maybe only 33%. Then, what are the chances that a 2nd date eventually turns into something very serious? Not very good at all. For so many reasons, WOVO is a very bad plan and idea.
WSVS (Write Several Visit Several / Not even necessarily write "Many", but at least write "Several" (ie at least 3)) is a much more intelligent plan. Using an agency like Mordinsons or using Pavel in Kiev or Mila in Kharkiv or Mamba or VK is sort of a form of WSVS, in my opinion. All are superior options to WOVO.
As ML said, there is a very good chance you are going to waste a ton of your precious time, get there, and the (1) girl will not even show. If you have lots of spare time to waste (your time is not worth anything), and plenty of money to waste on plane tickets, then sure I guess WOVO is great. But I personally think you are making a mistake visiting this (1) girl only. Pavel knows sooooo many nice, decent girls. Mila knows sooooooo many nice, decent girls. You could meet maybe 10 girls at Mordinsons. There are soooooo many nice decent girls on Mamba. And you are spending all this time and money........on (1) girl? :(
I do not agree with what you are doing at all.
Who is Pavel? Looked at Mordinsons site and didn't really strike a chord with me - they seem to keep a tight hold on the girls, plus they want you to pay for English lessons, apartments, etc. To me looks like another way to extract money than ppl scheme. Girls videos didn't really set me on fire either, they either seemed to make out they didn't know English or looked cheesed off. Maybe it works for some, seems they are suggesting you just go there to meet one anyway.
Well, the trip for me is about £380 for Flight and Hotel for 6 nights all in so not bad. Spending money on top of this and the small expenses so far made, so about another £110 for single room for the girl plus £30 ish for train travel do not bad. Good news on that front she got back to me and is happy with me buying the tickets for her, so restoring my faith in her :) I guess I was at fault for freaking out too early, but thankful to you guys for helping me out. Well, like I said before, I find her genuine, sincere and easy to get along with, she been reliable so far in skype/correspondence and that's worth a lot in my book. I'm glad my instinct has not been proven wrong as I was worried it might yesterday.
I know what your saying its still a bit out there meeting one girl, but I think I've gotten to know her quite well so know where she is coming from I think. Meeting a load of girls for a few minutes/hours even, I may not necessarily know that much about them or their intent. The time it takes to do this of course can vary but much time may be wasted perhaps to find a woman is wrong later down the path. So I think I'm on firmer footing with this one, if she's willing to make a 18-20 hour journey then it says a lot about her commitment for me. To be honest its not necessarily a bad thing as a lot of guys will probably pass over girls that live a bit far out/awkward location so less chance of playing around. However, don't blame you US guys for choosing the other route, its a lot more money from the US. While I was initially working from the WMVM approach it really just came down to one for me at the end of the day. So far she seems a good one but will have to see what happens when we meet up, hopefully.
-
I'm posting this just as a matter of tidbit info. On my first trip to use the Mordinson Agency last October, I wrote 16 women initially and ended up meeting with 11. A couple were not interested in me from the start and a few were no longer available. Of the 11 that I met, I hit it off with one in particular and we followed that up with her coming to Budapest to meet me for NYE. We spent two weeks together hopping around Hungary and Romania and the trip served double duty as I normally go visit my friends and family in those two countries a couple times a year. Unfortunately, it became readily apparent to me in the early stages of those two weeks that she was not the woman for me so we finished the trip off as "friends", but we no longer communicate.
This time around I wrote a dozen ladies and I'm meeting with eight. One was not interested (we can't all have great taste, right?) and three were "no longer available". Of those eight there's one in particular that I'm very hopeful about. Her and I have been communicating for two months with almost daily letters to each other. We'll see what happens. There could be zero chemistry right off the bat for her, but considering how attractive I find her I don't think that'll be an issue for me.
So fingers crossed as I wait for my connecting flight to Kyiv here in Munchen. At least I have the cold weather and snow that's moved in to look forward to :-\
Btw, this post also serves as trip report cliff notes for the trip back in October and December/January ;D
-
Doesn't make sense to me to use the same agency if it didn't work out first time round. Did you Skype with any beforehand? To me Mordinson just looks like a set up to cater for the foreign men dating scene i.e. they know men, US in particular are going to visit - they get together a group of local girls who are desperate for work/hard up/bored then they recirculate these girls to the man. y guys that visit. Girls get cheap holidays, nights out, drinks & eats etc - maybe a few quid from the agency. They don't really seem to have that many girls on there, I'm no expert, maybe it might be ok but it just seems too much of a potentially rigged set up designed to cater for the FM dating game scene. I think there was a trip report from someone on here recently who got introduced to women in Kharviv by someone called Mila and there seemed no chemistry there. Places like Kharkiv just seem to be an area where an industry has grown up as a kind of resort to draw money of foreign men dating. There's lots of attractive women that someone can introduce you to but for me it's whether they are serious about long term relationship, marriage, children, moving to another country etc.
I know going with one doesn't sound like the smartest thing. I'll have to reassess if it doesn't work out. I think initial signs are good for me though, she seems genuine, reliable and we seem to gel well personality wise so far, she's attractive :) For me what I didnt realise with the WMVM approach is that its really a case of firstly choosing a city with a lot of women on the site - St Petersburg didn't really have enough women on EM for this approach so signing up for another dating site would be needed for st Petersburg. Secondly, that as someone mentioned on here communication for far less time before travelling out to chosen city so about a month as to get eight women lined up after 2-3 months would be a major undertaking plus by that time they will pretty much all expectjust to see you exclusively at least for a few days worth not just a quick meet up for a few minutes/hours.
-
However, thought is here I think as guppy captain has demonstrated above meeting many can just mean doing the sifting there rather than at home which of course is cheaper. End of the day either route it comes down to one and perhaps even with many factors in your favour, chemistry, personality match, etc it only takes one thing potentially to screw it up. So for me meeting one woman is not quite the same perhaps as meeting many as I have a better idea of one than I would of many.
Only other thing that I might look into if it doesn't work out is the tours. AFA do reasonably priced ones and you get to meet many women. I wouldn't bother with the ppl side though. On the 'Love Me' film two guys did manage to meet women by doing that route so it's got some worth perhaps. I know they say a lot of women of all types get dragged along there but they don't look too bad in the videos, just a case of choosing carefully and taking a risk I think. Anyway that's my thought for the day.
-
Trenchcoat, I am VERY happy with the service and quality of the women I've met through Mordinson. I'm using them again because some new women joined, so obviously I'm not recycling ladies or anything of that nature.
You definitely have the wrong impression about this agency, Kharkiv as well as Mila. No Mordinson doesn't have a ton of women but I can tell you that the ones I've met have been genuine. The owner works very hard to weed out scammers. This was made clear to me in several ways. Anyway, I'm not here to sell their services, but I can tell you that it's a legitimate agency that's definitely not out to nickel and dime you and has genuine women. Take it fwiw.
As for the cost, it's not cheap but I actually consider it a good value. It falls in between the completely DYI approach and the highly catered service offered by the likes of Eduard (good guy, btw). To each their own....
-
Trenchcoat, I am VERY happy with the service and quality of the women I've met through Mordinson. I'm using them again because some new women joined, so obviously I'm not recycling ladies or anything of that nature.
You definitely have the wrong impression about this agency, Kharkiv as well as Mila. No Mordinson doesn't have a ton of women but I can tell you that the ones I've met have been genuine. The owner works very hard to weed out scammers. This was made clear to me in several ways. Anyway, I'm not here to sell their services, but I can tell you that it's a legitimate agency that's definitely not out to nickel and dime you and has genuine women. Take it fwiw.
As for the cost, it's not cheap but I actually consider it a good value. It falls in between the completely DYI approach and the highly catered service offered by the likes of Eduard (good guy, btw). To each their own....
You paid $2,450 for 7-day introduction EVERY TIME you visited as seeing that you have returned and will return - another $2,450?
-
Trenchcoat, I am VERY happy with the service and quality of the women I've met through Mordinson. I'm using them again because some new women joined, so obviously I'm not recycling ladies or anything of that nature.
You definitely have the wrong impression about this agency, Kharkiv as well as Mila. No Mordinson doesn't have a ton of women but I can tell you that the ones I've met have been genuine. The owner works very hard to weed out scammers. This was made clear to me in several ways. Anyway, I'm not here to sell their services, but I can tell you that it's a legitimate agency that's definitely not out to nickel and dime you and has genuine women. Take it fwiw.
As for the cost, it's not cheap but I actually consider it a good value. It falls in between the completely DYI approach and the highly catered service offered by the likes of Eduard (good guy, btw). To each their own....
You misunderstand me, I probably didn't make it clear. I did not mean recycle women to you but recycle women to the clientele as a whole. They must get a lot of men visit that see the same women other men have visited put before them. Sure some will take a raincheck and a few new women will join the ranks and leave over time. Generally though to me it looks like their primary purpose is to provide a kind of simulated environment. That's just how they come across on their we site to me, if your happy with it fine but it doesn't entice me. 2.5k seems a lot of money for what it is - is flight cost on top of that? I'm sure the agents are great people but I'm not going out there to get into a relationship with them, lol. End of the day I want unrestricted access to the woman. I,'m not interested in being a fish in someone else's fish bowl.
-
Doesn't make sense to me to use the same agency if it didn't work out first time round. Did you Skype with any beforehand? To me Mordinson just looks like a set up to cater for the foreign men dating scene i.e. they know men, US in particular are going to visit - they get together a group of local girls who are desperate for work/hard up/bored then they recirculate these girls to the man. y guys that visit. Girls get cheap holidays, nights out, drinks & eats etc - maybe a few quid from the agency. They don't really seem to have that many girls on there, I'm no expert, maybe it might be ok but it just seems too much of a potentially rigged set up designed to cater for the FM dating game scene. I think there was a trip report from someone on here recently who got introduced to women in Kharviv by someone called Mila and there seemed no chemistry there. Places like Kharkiv just seem to be an area where an industry has grown up as a kind of resort to draw money of foreign men dating. There's lots of attractive women that someone can introduce you to but for me it's whether they are serious about long term relationship, marriage, children, moving to another country etc.
I know going with one doesn't sound like the smartest thing. I'll have to reassess if it doesn't work out. I think initial signs are good for me though, she seems genuine, reliable and we seem to gel well personality wise so far, she's attractive :) For me what I didnt realise with the WMVM approach is that its really a case of firstly choosing a city with a lot of women on the site - St Petersburg didn't really have enough women on EM for this approach so signing up for another dating site would be needed for st Petersburg. Secondly, that as someone mentioned on here communication for far less time before travelling out to chosen city so about a month as to get eight women lined up after 2-3 months would be a major undertaking plus by that time they will pretty much all expectjust to see you exclusively at least for a few days worth not just a quick meet up for a few minutes/hours.
Trench, you need to understand that there is no "right or wrong" choice but rather what you are most comfortable with. That normally boils down to how or where you find what you like. WMVM may not be for you. It wasn't for me either but others seemed to do well with it. Seems most of them made many many trips but, I can only guess they wanted to.
Also, I haven't been on Elena's Models in 9-10 years but there use to be many from Petersburg on there. If you like Petersburg I would suggest that you go. It's a great city. I "freestyled" there once many years ago and had a wonderful time.
-
You paid $2,450 for 7-day introduction EVERY TIME you visited as seeing that you have returned and will return - another $2,450?
Actually, I went with the 10 days and am doing the same now. :D
-
You misunderstand me, I probably didn't make it clear. I did not mean recycle women to you but recycle women to the clientele as a whole. They must get a lot of men visit that see the same women other men have visited put before them. Sure some will take a raincheck and a few new women will join the ranks and leave over time. Generally though to me it looks like their primary purpose is to provide a kind of simulated environment. That's just how they come across on their we site to me, if your happy with it fine but it doesn't entice me. 2.5k seems a lot of money for what it is - is flight cost on top of that? I'm sure the agents are great people but I'm not going out there to get into a relationship with them, lol. End of the day I want unrestricted access to the woman. I,'m not interested in being a fish in someone else's fish bowl.
Like I alluded to before. To each their own. What works for some doesn't for others. What one man is comfortable with another isn't. I wish you luck no matter what avenue you decide to pursue this pursuit with.
-
Actually, I went with the 10 days and am doing the same now. :D
I wouldn't want to pay another 10-day fees if I were you!
Ever heard of Jamie's Introduction in Barranquilla, Colombia? He has very good reputation and legal (like you mentioned about Mordinson). He charges only $1,495 for 3-day services - ONE TIME. Next time you visited, it will be FREE but you pay $100 a night at his lodge though.
There are many successful men among the sister site (Planet-Love) found their love from there.
-
Before my WMVM trips, I paid $16-30 for one month of unlimited contact on a couple of dating sites, plus a couple more free ones.
From this I lined up 12-20 gals to visit in one city only for each trip.
My $60 or so compared to what . . . $2,000 to $3,000 ????
-
Before my WMVM trips, I paid $16-30 for one month of unlimited contact on a couple of dating sites, plus a couple more free ones.
From this I lined up 12-20 gals to visit in one city only for each trip.
My $60 or so compared to what . . . $2,000 to $3,000 ????
Perfect, then you won't mind treating me to dinner when I'm in your city, da? ;D
-
I wouldn't want to pay another 10-day fees if I were you!
Ever heard of Jamie's Introduction in Barranquilla, Colombia? He has very good reputation and legal (like you mentioned about Mordinson). He charges only $1,495 for 3-day services - ONE TIME. Next time you visited, it will be FREE but you pay $100 a night at his lodge though.
There are many successful men among the sister site (Planet-Love) found their love from there.
I haven't heard of them but my father's Colombian girlfriend insists I go visit because, "The women will love you!" (Said in a thick Spanish accent).
Make no mistake, there are some absolutely wonderful Colombian girls out there but for now my pursuit takes me to the FSU. It's just the flavor of ice cream my taste buds prefer.
-
Well, as some of you may know I've got this trip coming up to see this girl in Kiev, now we have met on sykpe but haven't physically met. However, signs are real good at the moment, I know that can change of course, and my question here a little preemptive but its been on my mind a little. Now, say we continued to hit it off together when in Kiev, what do you guys reckon the next step should be? I know ultimately only I/we can decide of course but where does one trip potentially leave you. For me I think in most instances it would be too soon for engagement unless it was of course apparent to us both as we would have just seen each other over the course of a few days. I would generally consider sex to be a prerequisite for any engagement proposal and then of course only if the woman seemed up for a proposal. I'm not expecting anything or going to hold her to anything so if sex does not occur but I have a good time all the same I would still be very pleased and of course a relationship still a goer :)
Either way, I get the impression I could be left in a quandary, even after a good time, I would prefer to capitalize on this, I know some people suggest a promise ring (I do not know her ring size, lol) or some sort of promise to be exclusive. Yet I have heard of such promises breaking down. Some guys for example do not come forth coming with a proposal after first meeting expecting to meet up for a second then woman goes of elsewhere, i.e, some local dude gets in there, another foreign guy - because they did not seal the deal as it were. I would of course set up another meeting in the near future if it went well, but what do you guys reckon is the best way to proceed if say you get on very well but perhaps too early for a proposal but want commitment?
-
Trench, to each their own personal courtship timeline, but boy you move a lot faster than I'd be comfortable with! First of all, don't you want to find someone who'll want to be with YOU because of who you are as a person? If you have to worry about a woman running off with someone else after you leave (either foreign or local) perhaps she's truly not the one for you and is doing you a huge favor by bolting.
The biggest thing I'd be worried about is keeping solid, reliable, and consistent communication with her after you get back home from the trip. This will go a long way to establishing trust if she has a man she can rely on day in and day out to be there for her even if it's several thousand KMs away.
Make sure if at all possible that you have a return date set and she knows about it even if it's not as soon as you'd both like it to be. This will be easier for her to deal with and show more seriousness than "I'll be back soon".
You're just like me in the sense that you need to have clear answers to things in the future and it's hard for you to deal with if you don't have them. I'm guilty of the same thing and wish I was a little bit more mellow about this.
Seriously, have a plan for communication methods and a return date before you go if possible.
-
Trench, to each their own personal courtship timeline, but boy you move a lot faster than I'd be comfortable with! First of all, don't you want to find someone who'll want to be with YOU because of who you are as a person? If you have to worry about a woman running off with someone else after you leave (either foreign or local) perhaps she's truly not the one for you and is doing you a huge favor by bolting.
The biggest thing I'd be worried about is keeping solid, reliable, and consistent communication with her after you get back home from the trip. This will go a long way to establishing trust if she has a man she can rely on day in and day out to be there for her even if it's several thousand KMs away.
Make sure if at all possible that you have a return date set and she knows about it even if it's not as soon as you'd both like it to be. This will be easier for her to deal with and show more seriousness than "I'll be back soon".
You're just like me in the sense that you need to have clear answers to things in the future and it's hard for you to deal with if you don't have them. I'm guilty of the same thing and wish I was a little bit more mellow about this.
Seriously, have a plan for communication methods and a return date before you go if possible.
Thanks man, appreciate the advice, helped clear my mind on this a bit. So, yeah I've written to her stating my serious intent (not mentioning proposal though, lol) Although, this trip in the first instance is a fun and relaxed affair, well hopefully it will be. I want her to know I'm not just a turn up for a jolly and bugger off never to be seen again type of guy. Ultimately, I'm interested in a committed relationship, etc and am willing to commit with the right person at the right time. I'm not really into messing people around, I prefer to let them know the situation, nor am I on a big long search for the joy of it - well hopefully not. I know some guys do tend to fall into that on here, some manage to find someone, others just seem to never really hit home, which is not the sort of scene I want to be in.
So yeah, this girl certainly has very positive initial impressions, so far perfect for the type of girl I'm looking for :) However, read on here somewhere about some guy who was arranging a second trip once back home I think and she blew him of. Think the thinking was that someone committed where he didn't. However, on first trip not many guys probably would. I know people say, she's not right/the one if she goes off elsewhere, maybe so, but I also think with women world over it tends to be the case of he who gets in first is the one that gets the girl more often than not - that many girls go for the firm deal sometimes, maybe often even if they liked the other guy more.
-
Guppy, just got back from the gym, I am exhausted. Leg day along with 60 minutes on the treadmill afterwards. Oh I just love leg day so much, leg day is so much fun (sarcasm).
I am excited for you man! I am kind of living through you vicariously right now. I am not sure if I am going to use Mordinson, or Mila in Kharkiv, or travel to Minsk and spend 22 days in Belarus. Every day, I keep talking to a couple new girls in the 28-31 year age range from Belarus...I have yet to find a Belarussian girl that has not been extremely nice, kind, friendly, and down-to-earth. And it would be hard for me at this point to even think about going back to my original plans of meeting Ukrainian girls, when I am being treated so much nicer by Belarussian girls than I ever was treated by Ukrainian girls....and also due to the fact that on average, Belarussian girls are MUCH more my type appearance-wise - very skinny and petite, size 00, size 0 or size 2 at the largest (I will not marry bigger than a size 2 as I will also not date bigger than a size 2)...there is simply a massive pool of Belarussian girls on Mamba between 28-33 who are very thin/skinny, not necessarily beautiful in the face, but at the very least "Cute" ("Cute" is plenty good enough for me, I do not have to have "beautiful" and I do not even want a "beautiful" Belarussian girl because divorce sucks, and I have too many friends who have gone through pretty nasty divorces. Skinny and "Cute" will get me a very loving Wife who hopefully will never divorce me...."Beautiful" is just a divorce waiting to happen. No thanks, some other Western Man can have the "Beautiful" girls in Belarus.)
I really hope things pan out this time for you. You met 11 girls at Mordinson on the 1st trip but none of them panned out. :( How many girls have you and Michael set up for you to meet this time visit? I think you said you met 4 girls on Sunday? Awesome, you had a very busy Sunday. I am looking forward to a good trip report when you get back. And I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers that Mrs. GuppyCaptain will reveal herself to you on this trip. :)
And hopefully, Mrs. GuppyCaptain has a really sweet, kind, loving young Sister who is single, skinny, close to my age, and is a rabid, die-hard Dallas Cowboys Fan whose Bedroom is covered, from ceiling to floor, in Dallas Cowboys memorobilia. :clapping: And who dresses her little Dog in Dallas Cowboys doggie sweaters when she takes the dog out for walks in the wintertime.
-
Guppy, just got back from the gym, I am exhausted. Leg day along with 60 minutes on the treadmill afterwards. Oh I just love leg day so much, leg day is so much fun (sarcasm).
I am excited for you man! I am kind of living through you vicariously right now. I am not sure if I am going to use Mordinson, or Mila in Kharkiv, or travel to Minsk and spend 22 days in Belarus. Every day, I keep talking to a couple new girls in the 28-31 year age range from Belarus...I have yet to find a Belarussian girl that has not been extremely nice, kind, friendly, and down-to-earth. And it would be hard for me at this point to even think about going back to my original plans of meeting Ukrainian girls, when I am being treated so much nicer by Belarussian girls than I ever was treated by Ukrainian girls....and also due to the fact that on average, Belarussian girls are MUCH more my type appearance-wise - very skinny and petite, size 00, size 0 or size 2 at the largest (I will not marry bigger than a size 2 as I will also not date bigger than a size 2)...there is simply a massive pool of Belarussian girls on Mamba between 28-33 who are very thin/skinny, not necessarily beautiful in the face, but at the very least "Cute" ("Cute" is plenty good enough for me, I do not have to have "beautiful" and I do not even want a "beautiful" Belarussian girl because divorce sucks, and I have too many friends who have gone through pretty nasty divorces. Skinny and "Cute" will get me a very loving Wife who hopefully will never divorce me...."Beautiful" is just a divorce waiting to happen. No thanks, some other Western Man can have the "Beautiful" girls in Belarus.)
I really hope things pan out this time for you. You met 11 girls at Mordinson on the 1st trip but none of them panned out. :( How many girls have you and Michael set up for you to meet this time visit? I think you said you met 4 girls on Sunday? Awesome, you had a very busy Sunday. I am looking forward to a good trip report when you get back. And I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers that Mrs. GuppyCaptain will reveal herself to you on this trip. :)
And hopefully, Mrs. GuppyCaptain has a really sweet, kind, loving young Sister who is single, skinny, close to my age, and is a rabid, die-hard Dallas Cowboys Fan whose Bedroom is covered, from ceiling to floor, in Dallas Cowboys memorobilia. :clapping:
Lmao. Tread, GO TO BELARUS! It sounds like the answer to your question is obvious.
Yes, 11 last time and it will be 9 girls this time. Last time yielded a start of a relationship with xxxx but on a two week trip over NYE through Hungary and Transylvania but we turned out not to be compatible. So here I am. I'm back :-)
Thanks for crossing your fingers for me. I'm doing the same for you.
-
Knew a guy once who apparently had a beautiful partner. Every time he went to the bar in a pub/restaurant or went to the toilet he would come back to find some dude chatting up his girl. Got tiresome after a short while, major pain in the ass. So yeah bringing back an absolutely beautiful girl could be a problem of she's not entirely set on you. 28-33 age range not bad as although FSU women seem to keep themselves better for longer women on the younger side can just be plain trouble as they can have lots of options in the west and time to play around.
-
GC,
Yep, a lot of us are following your trip and using you as our mentor guide. I am looking forward to reading your AAR after action review which is a term we use in the Army, but an AAR is better known as a trip report. GC a lot of us are praying that you find your future Mrs GC on this trip. Stay safe.
Thread,
I have also been getting better more genuine response out of Russian and Belarussian women than I have from Ukraine women. The response has been so obvious that I am now changing my search patterns to Russian and Belarus women. I will dig up and post some good info that I found on Belarus women because it is a good read.
-
Okay Team,
Here is some good stuff I dug up on Belarus women...
Let's skip stalinist impressive architecture(great highways tall buildings) and food(close to Russian) and get straight to what matters to us. How do the local women stand up.
1.Appearance.Absolutely gorgeous. Slavic chik in its prime. Guys Belarus is a strange country. Because all other slavic countries have been deprived by a considerable amount of their genetic pool(200000 Russian women have married Turks in the last decade only, there are 2 million polish immigrants all over Europe and Ukraine has lost 20% of its population usually the best looking women who hook up with American and Western European men and escape for a better future). But Belarus is a special case. And this is because of the president Aleksander Lukashenko.
This great president has declared that Belarussian women are national treasure and does not permit them to leave the country and marry abroad.
So in Belarus you are going to see such a concentration of hotties that will blow off your mind. It is like Russia or Poland before the catastrophe brought by westernization.
In Belarus you will get a true view of what really means slavic and only slavic chick in quantities you would never dream.Most girls are very slender and very chick. They are polite and have the classic shapely slavic legs the high cheeks and the green almond shaped eyes. They do not have fat lips as Russian women do nor do they have the popping asses and the big breasts of polish women who are gifted in this department. However they easily surpass Ukrainian women in every aspect(Ukrainian women in province are clearly impoverished and malnourished and this stands against appearance) except that Ukrainian women move their asses better.
Also Ukrainian women dress way more sluttily than Belarussian ones. Belarussian wear conservative clothes mostly feminine of course as in all the slavic world. However they do not leave their bellies out so often as their polish counterparts nor do they wear so deep decoltes like them nor do they leave their asses hanging out of their low waist jeans as the Russian women often do. They also do not show their strings like Czech women or wear transparent clothes like Russian women.
In general I would say Belarussian women are among the most conservatively dressed slavic women and maybe some will like that(although the view of the Ukrainian state employee with the super mini the high heels and river of make up is not bad either.Actually in Ukraine ads for work set appearance requirements often (height, weight, age etc.).
After we finished with the appearance let's talk about the behavior of girls and how it compares to nearby Ukraine, Poland or Russian whether they are more or less easy and what are the opportunities.
Character of Belarussian girls.
They all have the common slavic characteristics(easy going, humble, mood changing, supersititious etc. with tendencies to art and culture, dancing and they are as the rest of slavic women.
Main difference from Ukrainian and Polish is that they are rather shy and afraid of foreigners. This means that if you try to talk to a Belarussian girl in the street she will not respond to you. It happens because they are afraid of foreigners . It is not like in Poland or Ukraine where she will be happy to talk to you.
I refer mostly to Minsk and eastern Belarus. Western Belarus(Brest) is another story altogether. There girls talk to foreigners and are open the architecture is polish but the city is too small to spend too much time there.(about 150000 people I think). So it is hardly a choice but day game will bring you quick results .
-
Knew a guy once who apparently had a beautiful partner. Every time he went to the bar in a pub/restaurant or went to the toilet he would come back to find some dude chatting up his girl. Got tiresome after a short while, major pain in the ass. So yeah bringing back an absolutely beautiful girl could be a problem of she's not entirely set on you. 28-33 age range not bad as although FSU women seem to keep themselves better for longer women on the younger side can just be plain trouble as they can have lots of options in the west and time to play around.
Not that 9s and 10s are throwing themselves at me, but seriously who would want to put up with that? ^^^^ To much of a headache. I'll take an 8 with a great character and personality and will marry that girl as soon as I can find her.
-
GC,
Yep, a lot of us are following your trip and using you as our mentor guide. I am looking forward to reading your AAR after action review which is a term we use in the Army, but an AAR is better known as a trip report. GC a lot of us are praying that you find your future Mrs GC on this trip. Stay safe.
Thread,
I have also been getting better more genuine response out of Russian and Belarussian women than I have from Ukraine women. The response has been so obvious that I am now changing my search patterns to Russian and Belarus women. I will dig up and post some good info that I found on Belarus women because it is a good read.
Thanks Red. Uh, I wouldn't necessarily look towards me for guidance as I think there are members with far greater experience than me on this forum. If you value recency of experience then perhaps I can help, but I probably lack in quantity of experience compared to others.
-
GC,
Not necessarily looking for solid guidance, but you are on a trip and any and all feedback is a big plus to those of us that are starting this process. I look forward to your AAR report. Stay safe.
-
Not that 9s and 10s are throwing themselves at me, but seriously who would want to put up with that? ^^^^ To much of a headache. I'll take an 8 with a great character and personality and will marry that girl as soon as I can find her.
You are much pickier than I am Guppy. I will take a 3 or 4 who has 2 arms, 2 legs, can cook Raman Noodles and speak English.
-
GC,
Yep, a lot of us are following your trip and using you as our mentor guide. I am looking forward to reading your AAR after action review which is a term we use in the Army, but an AAR is better known as a trip report. GC a lot of us are praying that you find your future Mrs GC on this trip. Stay safe.
Thread,
I have also been getting better more genuine response out of Russian and Belarussian women than I have from Ukraine women. The response has been so obvious that I am now changing my search patterns to Russian and Belarus women. I will dig up and post some good info that I found on Belarus women because it is a good read.
Redfeather, that is good to know that you have read some very positive things about women in Belarus! That is very cool and I hope you'll share with the board the positive attributes associated with Belarussian girls.
Russia, as it relates to me....I know literally nothing about Russia or Russian women. My only experience I have with Russian women is that I have been contacted by (3) Russian Girls on Mamba. 1 girl from Omsk who is 32 and has a very cute little boy (she sent me about 40 pictures of her little boy through Mamba chat without me even asking for any pictures. I think she loved on my profile how I talk about how much I love Children, that I am very patient with Children and love to spend many hours with them doing things that little kids like to do, like Barbie Dolls, hide and go seek, throw the football and baseball, etc...) 1 girl from Belgorod (spelling?) and 1 girl from Sochi. All 3 have been very nice, 2 of them gave me their direct link to their VK profiles, and yes they are both very genuine, nothing fake or dishonest about them. One thing I do not like about Russian women on Mamba....Russian girls 28-33 years of age have a tendency to be much thicker / heavier on average than Ukrainian girls. And Ukrainian girls have a tendency to be much thicker than Belarussian girls. I have only dated skinny girls, I have never dated a girl bigger than a size 2 and I will not marry a girl bigger than a size 2. Therefore, according to my (very strange) lust for thin / slender girls with small busts, Belarus is #1 for me in terms of their womens' appearance. Ukraine is #2 for appearance. Russia is #3 (dead last ie the worst) for appearance.
That being said, I have been reading a few threads here on RWD about the Passport and Visa requirements for Belarus, and that stuff is very complicated. I do not understand a lot of it. I have never traveled outside of the US before (yeah I know I suck). I am actually worried about traveling to Belarus and the difficulties I might potentially have with passport / visa issues. That is really the only negative thing I see right now with Belarus. But the fact that Belarussian women are much skinnier and a tiny bit prettier, on average than Ukrainian women (not to mention the most important fact that there are very few dishonest / scammer girls from Belarus that I have found on Mamba from checking their corresponding VK profiles) right now outweighs the future potential difficulties I possibly foresee as a result of the Visa / Passport issues associated with Belarus.
-
You will need an invitation letter and a visa to visit Belarus. My girlfriend is originally from Minsk and we got her dad to get the official invite for me. There are businesses online that can get you your invitation which usually requires a one night stay at a hotel.
If your lady of interest is willing to get you the invite, that would be great as well. Its not as difficult as it seems. You will need to send your passport to the Belarus embassy in DC (I did) after filling out the visa request on their website. It only took about 2 weeks for me to get back my passport with visa in it but you will have to include the invitation document with your passport when you send it in.
I know there are a few websites that can arrange all of that for you for a fee but not sure which are reliable.
Minsk is a very nice clean city. The women are indeed quite beautiful as well. There are also many nice tourist sites especially regarding the great Patriotic War. Khattin Village, the Stalin Line and Brest Fortress to name a few.
-
Hammer, thank you very much for your reply. I might be sending you an email or two, if you don't mind, requesting a tiny bit of help with the whole Visa / Letter of Invitation / Passport thing regarding Belarus in the future. I went to the official Government of Belarus's website, and read about the entire process...and it has a bunch of legal jargon (I am not a lawyer, I do not understand all of that legal jargon) that almost confused me even more. Perhaps contacting someone like Mila in Kharkiv, and simply paying her some money to do the hard work for me, might be my best plan of action. I am sure Mila knows quite a bit about the documentation associated with Belarus, even though she is from Kharkiv.
The police in Belarus do not seem to be nearly as corrupt as the world famous Ukrainian police (I mean world famous Ukrainian police in a very negative way). Therefore, I do not envision myself getting stopped repeatedly by the Belarussian police and getting shaken down for $20, $30 etc.. because I am a "Dumb American. That is one huge advantage I see in Belarus relative to Kharkiv.
Anyways, I need to read a lot more about the entry / exit process for Belarus. But thank you for the information you gave me, Hammer. :)
-
One thing is for sure. I will be observing the Mordinson website very carefully over the next few days. If I note that the 12 or 15 most beautiful women on the Mordinson website suddenly disappear (Have their pictures and profile removed from the site), then I will know that GuppyCaptain has worked his devilish charm and truly is Rico Suave, and he has tons of gorgeous Mordinson women begging him to marry them and bring them back to Pennsylvania. :P Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church would only be too proud of Guppy, that little player. >:(
-
But Belarus is a special case. And this is because of the president Aleksander Lukashenko.
This great president has declared that Belarussian women are national treasure and does not permit them to leave the country and marry abroad.
So in Belarus you are going to see such a concentration of hotties that will blow off your mind. It is like Russia or Poland before the catastrophe brought by westernization.
Red, I do hope there is oodles of sarcasm attached to this post, right? Namely the parts about "great president", and "catastrophe brought by westernization".
-
Hammer, thank you very much for your reply. I might be sending you an email or two, if you don't mind, requesting a tiny bit of help with the whole Visa / Letter of Invitation / Passport thing regarding Belarus in the future. I went to the official Government of Belarus's website, and read about the entire process...and it has a bunch of legal jargon (I am not a lawyer, I do not understand all of that legal jargon) that almost confused me even more. Perhaps contacting someone like Mila in Kharkiv, and simply paying her some money to do the hard work for me, might be my best plan of action. I am sure Mila knows quite a bit about the documentation associated with Belarus, even though she is from Kharkiv.
The police in Belarus do not seem to be nearly as corrupt as the world famous Ukrainian police (I mean world famous Ukrainian police in a very negative way). Therefore, I do not envision myself getting stopped repeatedly by the Belarussian police and getting shaken down for $20, $30 etc.. because I am a "Dumb American. That is one huge advantage I see in Belarus relative to Kharkiv.
Anyways, I need to read a lot more about the entry / exit process for Belarus. But thank you for the information you gave me, Hammer. :)
http://www.travisa.com/visaguide.aspx
-
I have a woman from Dnipropetrovsk that I have been writing she is a 42 year old physican. She says she does not have Skype right now, but that she can find a place or a way to Skype later. She asks if I would like her number to call her?? I am asking her if she has a VK account, but have not heard back. Is it normal for them in Ukraine to not have Skype?? Also, if you guys call do you use Skype or viber, or what method do you use that is the cheapest?? Thanks.
-
Corruption in Belarus is nowhere near as transparent as in Russia or Ukraine since the country is run by a dictator.....
-
The police in Belarus do not seem to be nearly as corrupt as the world famous Ukrainian police (I mean world famous Ukrainian police in a very negative way). Therefore, I do not envision myself getting stopped repeatedly by the Belarussian police and getting shaken down for $20, $30 etc.. because I am a "Dumb American. That is one huge advantage I see in Belarus relative to Kharkiv.
Tread, slow down moy droog. This is my third time in Ukraine and have visited Kyiv, Kharkiv and Chernobyl/Pripyat. I have literally never once felt unsafe, or have ever been stopped by the police. You've really got the wrong impression about things here. There is also the new police force who are supposed to be better about the whole shakedown thing. Yes, the country is still in the shitter but the people are genuinely down-to-earth and welcoming. You're blowing things WAY out of proportion.
You do realize that Belarus is nicknamed "The last dictatorship in Europe", right? I'd venture to guess that your chances of getting asked for your papers while walking the street are FAR greater there than here. Lukashenko is no angel and the way he runs the country will probably not land him on the list of Top 10 Most Benevolent Leaders of The World.
That said, there's a damn good chance that I will expand my search there if need be in the future, but I'm leave the rose colored glasses on my nightstand.
-
I have a woman from Dnipropetrovsk that I have been writing she is a 42 year old physican. She says she does not have Skype right now, but that she can find a place or a way to Skype later. She asks if I would like her number to call her?? I am asking her if she has a VK account, but have not heard back. Is it normal for them in Ukraine to not have Skype?? Also, if you guys call do you use Skype or viber, or what method do you use that is the cheapest?? Thanks.
I'd find it a little strange if she was 22 and didn't have Skype but really wouldn't question her if she's 42. That's right around my vintage and we're certainly not as techno hip as those in their 20s.
Get her number and call her. Use a calling card or whatever's cheap. You run the risk of not showing enough interest in her mind if you're niggling her too much about what method of communication to use. If you're interested in her, get on it. Then when you talk to her on the phone for the first time you can once again suggest the alternate methods of communicating.
Also, a 42 year old physician doesn't fit the scammer profile. All IMHO of course....
-
One thing is for sure. I will be observing the Mordinson website very carefully over the next few days. If I note that the 12 or 15 most beautiful women on the Mordinson website suddenly disappear (Have their pictures and profile removed from the site), then I will know that GuppyCaptain has worked his devilish charm and truly is Rico Suave, and he has tons of gorgeous Mordinson women begging him to marry them and bring them back to Pennsylvania. :P Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church would only be too proud of Guppy, that little player. >:(
Damn Tread! Why can't you be a female and hot? With that level of admiration I'd marry you in a heartbeat :-*
Seriously though, I had a hell of an interesting day. I first went out with XXXXX who was a 10 month refugee from Donetsk. She spoke 70% English and was a little rough around the edges. It was fascinating talking to her about the situation in Donbass and also very sad. The story about her and her friends hanging out outside of their flat was sobering. It was during the initial stages of the separatists seizing control of the city and they had set a curfew that XXXXX and her friends didn't know about. A carload of them pulled up and started firing their machine guns into the air. They let XXXXX go but her friend got arrested. Not once did I feel that she was trying to use her situation or her past as sympathy though.
I knew we weren't a good match but still invited her to dinner later in the day to talk to her some more. We had a great conversation about many things and she opened up to me about her and her family's story. It took some effort not to have the White Knight Syndrome start rolling in my brain.
I also had a candid talk with her about why I didn't feel we were the future Mr. & Mrs. GuppyCaptain and she was quite understanding about it. It was an interesting and fulfilling date to say the least and she was just one of those people you feel lucky to have met in life. I really, really wish her the best.
The second date of the afternoon was with YYYYY. She spoke 10% English. There was no chemistry there so it got wrapped up rather quickly. I kind of knew there wouldn't be, but hey.....
Then it was time to meet VVVV, a 31 year old pediatrician. NICE lady to say the least. She's truly a quality woman who's intelligent, down-to-earth, and well put together. Honestly, I just don't feel attracted enough to her to consider anything long-term, but that woman is totally marriage material. Very impressed otherwise.
And so tomorrow's another day and one day closer to seeing IIIII again who I'm rather smitten with to say the least. It's good to have choices but I really am trying to be objective and serious about finding "The One".
-
That being said, I have been reading a few threads here on RWD about the Passport and Visa requirements for Belarus, and that stuff is very complicated. I do not understand a lot of it. I have never traveled outside of the US before (yeah I know I suck). I am actually worried about traveling to Belarus and the difficulties I might potentially have with passport / visa issues. That is really the only negative thing I see right now with Belarus. But the fact that Belarussian women are much skinnier and a tiny bit prettier, on average than Ukrainian women (not to mention the most important fact that there are very few dishonest / scammer girls from Belarus that I have found on Mamba from checking their corresponding VK profiles) right nows outweighs the future potential difficulties I possibly foresee as a result of the Visa / Passport issues associated with Belarus.
Don't worry about getting a visa to visit Belarus. I always used Cinderella Travel to obtain visas to Belarus and Russia. I never had a problem. You can print out a copy of the application from their website, complete it as far as you can, then send it to Cinderella Travel, along with your passport. They will finish completing the application and take it to the consulate. You don't have to worry about an invitation. Then presto they send your passport back to you with a visa for Belarus pasted into it.
If Dasha is still handling visas there the customer service will be excellent.
http://cinderellatravel.com/visas_belarus.php
-
Larry, you mean this bypasses the need for an invite from someone residing in Belarus?
-
Treadmilldude, I've used gotorussia for a Tourist Visa to Russia with similar requirements of Belaus. which says the applicant must provide an original invitation issued by an authorized Belarus travel agency. If you would like for Go To Russia Travel to obtain such invitation for you, please contact us for details. In most cases, a reservation at a hotel and booking of travel services is required in order to obtain a tourist invitation. Additional fees (cost of invitation, international shipping), besides cost of travel arrangements, will apply.
If Larry's recommended company can get you that invitation without needing one from a hotel, then use them. Gotorussia did that for me for Russia but they ask clients to contact them for details for the invitation to Belarus. Also check out the link below. It says one requirement is that you have medical insurance that will cover you in Belarus? I don't know if this is a new requirement or old but take that into consideration so you don't get turned around if you decide to go there.
http://www.gotorussia.com/visa_services_belarus.htm
-
Just a quick question guys, I know when I go to meet this girl I need to get her a present. However, would I get her parents/family also? I've never met them, won't be meeting them this visit and meeting her outside her home town, also will be first time I've physically meet her. I'm thinking not as I'm not going to meet them to me it would seem a bit oddball to do so, however, I thought it better to ask on here just in case as I know a few things that seem odd to us do come up in FSU dating.
-
Just a quick question guys, I know when I go to meet this girl I need to get her a present. However, would I get her parents/family also? I've never met them, won't be meeting them this visit and meeting her outside her home town, also will be first time I've physically meet her. I'm thinking not as I'm not going to meet them to me it would seem a bit oddball to do so, however, I thought it better to ask on here just in case as I know a few things that seem odd to us do come up in FSU dating.
Given the circumstances I definitely wouldn't get them a present. You're not meeting the parents directly. You're meeting the lady for the first time and in another city no less. Does she have any children?
-
Just a quick question guys, I know when I go to meet this girl I need to get her a present. However, would I get her parents/family also? I've never met them, won't be meeting them this visit and meeting her outside her home town, also will be first time I've physically meet her. I'm thinking not as I'm not going to meet them to me it would seem a bit oddball to do so, however, I thought it better to ask on here just in case as I know a few things that seem odd to us do come up in FSU dating.
Well thought out individual gifts/presents while appreciated are not necessary. Keep in mind to never go to someone's home empty handed. Always have something. Wine, whiskey cake or something for all to enjoy. That said it is a good idea to buy a number of things for personal gifts to have in case you need them. Nothing expensive but something for man, woman, child just in case you need them. Always be prepared
-
Yup ^^^. Also, gifts unique to your own country are a great idea. I brought over a wheel of Wisconsin Cheddar encased in wax and it was greatly appreciated in Ukraine as something unique to the U.S.
-
Yup ^^^. Also, gifts unique to your own country are a great idea. I brought over a wheel of Wisconsin Cheddar encased in wax and it was greatly appreciate in Ukraine as something unique to the U.S.
Stop giving away our precious assets.
-
Stop giving away our precious assets.
Lmfao. Should I be exporting our women instead? Would you miss them less than the cheese?
-
Lmfao. Should I be exporting our women instead? Would you miss them less than the cheese?
GC, please export them all nobody will care. While your at it sprinkle them around to different countries and be sure to give millions of them to Iraq and Iran. Okay only joking.
-
Yup ^^^. Also, gifts unique to your own country are a great idea.
Not just a great idea but an absolute must. It would be a disaster for a guy to buy a gift made in China. All gifts, especially the first time gifts, should be made in ones home country. Gifts have meaning to women and the gift should give the her a memory for a lifetime. It doesn't have to be expensive to be meaningful. My wife's favorite gift was a book of scenic Washington State, the place where I live. The book showed her what her future home could look like.
-
GC, please export them all nobody will care. While your at it sprinkle them around to different countries and be sure to give millions of them to Iraq and Iran. Okay only joking.
Come on now. According to a recent thread, there are some on here who would take great exception to this notion. Interestingly they're all married to FSUW. ;D
-
Not just a great idea but an absolute must. It would be a disaster for a guy to buy a gift made in China. All gifts, especially the first time gifts, should be made in ones home country. Gifts have meaning to women and the gift should give the her a memory for a lifetime. It doesn't have to be expensive to be meaningful. My wife's favorite gift was a book of scenic Washington State, the place where I live. The book showed her what her future home could look like.
Fantastic idea. Btw, my second favorite state behind CO and also my favorite U.S. (Seattle). Does the wifey love it as well? Where was she from in the FSU?
-
I brought over a wheel of Wisconsin Cheddar encased in wax and it was greatly appreciated in Ukraine as something unique to the U.S.
As someone living in the home of Cheddar region - the west of England - the village from whence it takes it's name .. I have to question the 'unique / Americaness' :D
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_cheese[url]
Cheddar in wax is common in most UK supermarkets ...
-
Given the circumstances I definitely wouldn't get them a present. You're not meeting the parents directly. You're meeting the lady for the first time and in another city no less. Does she have any children?
Yeah, that's what I figured but thought better check as I know guys on here a lot more on top of the cultural customs thing than me. Well no she doesn't have any children at least I hope not, lol, she had no for had children on her profile and she's told me she wants children. The good news for me is that she is an only child :) which means I won't have to buy a load of presents if it comes to visiting, so both convient and money saving. She just lives with her parents and has cousins in other cities in the Ukraine. I guess where the savings occur as well as her home town is a long distance from Kiev so won't be meeting her parents in the trip not this time anyway.
Thanks very much everyone for contributions I've got a much better idea now of what to get her. I'll definitely try for something local, I've got a couple of ideas on that, won't be cheese as not really that region for it but got some good local stuff around that seems relevant. Good I asked as was thinking along the lines of perfume so yeah something more local than that should be a far better way to go :)
-
Just remember Trench that the FSU mentality has very specific views on what gifts are appropriate for a man and what's appropriate for a woman. For example, you'd probably never buy a bottle of liquor for a woman. Perhaps some of the others can expand on this as I've got to bolt for now.
-
Does the wifey love it as well?
She loves the Seattle area and Pacific NW. We drove all over the Western states and there are beautiful things to see but she considers Washington her home.
Where was she from in the FSU?
I found her living in Libya because her mom worked there as a doctor but she's Ukrainian.
For example, you'd probably never buy a bottle of liquor for a woman.
I dated a RW in the states who told me a RM brought a bottle of vodka as a gift on a first date. He didn't get to go on that first date. FSU women I dated in the states requested I bring alcohol on the date(not a 1st date) and it usually ended well.
-
she had no for had children on her profile
Pray it isn't the same as when many of them say 'no' with regard to whether they smoke.
-
Pray it isn't the same as when many of them say 'no' with regard to whether they smoke.
LOL :D Yeah, I hope it isn't since I don't smoke and 'apparently' neither does she but have heard a fair bit from various sources many get surprised.
-
Just a quick question guys, I know when I go to meet this girl I need to get her a present. However, would I get her parents/family also? I've never met them, won't be meeting them this visit and meeting her outside her home town, also will be first time I've physically meet her. I'm thinking not as I'm not going to meet them to me it would seem a bit oddball to do so, however, I thought it better to ask on here just in case as I know a few things that seem odd to us do come up in FSU dating.
Whatever you do, never, and I mean NEVER bring a set of knives as a present. Things typical from home are the best. Sacks of cash are the worse.
-
Come on now. According to a recent thread, there are some on here who would take great exception to this notion. Interestingly they're all married to FSUW. ;D
Well, if you are into slavery, please, by all means. I'm sure I was one of the "some" and definitely I would have a problem with that.
-
Just remember Trench that the FSU mentality has very specific views on what gifts are appropriate for a man and what's appropriate for a woman. For example, you'd probably never buy a bottle of liquor for a woman. Perhaps some of the others can expand on this as I've got to bolt for now.
Oh? Mind expanding on that?
-
Larry, you mean this bypasses the need for an invite from someone residing in Belarus?
Yes, it does. I assume the agency takes care of this.
-
Yes, it does. I assume the agency takes care of this.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
-
Forget that the home babes are too fat for me approach. That only reflects bad on you. Realistically they're not and further is, you just can't get one to date you that you can stand. The weight of the local gals, alcoholics, drug addicted, lazy, won't work, 5 lousy kids, 4 exes yadda yadda yadda. We've heard all of that before. Many of the guys here will agree with you and that sentiment 100% but, the truth is, you're not what the hot, quality local babes are after or you wouldn't be here. Let's call it what it is. You can do this, find a good FSUW who would love to have a life with you but, you have to be a good WM. Are you up for it?
Great post, i get asked why i want a russian girl, and my response is the same. I dated many petit girls in the UK who had active lifestyles, some were educated. Truth is in russia you can get slightly better than back home. I hate the western women bashing, it is not me, or what i am about.
A lot of guys also are scared to go outside their comfort zone. They go on these dating sites, see a girl that is better than they would get back home, and assume they don't need to work on themselves. I believe if someone is seriously seeking someone abroad they should Learn Russian,Get in decent shape,get some good photos done,consider meeting women on the street, and do whatever it takes to improve their value. They are not buying a bike, it is a once in a lifetime thing, they should be willing to put themselves through a lot of work, and hassle, and bring out their full potential, laziness is just going to hurt you.
-
I believe if someone is seriously seeking someone abroad they should Learn Russian,
Don't do it.
Use the time you would waste trying to learn Russian to further your education. Get an MBA or whatever. Increase your earning potential. Start a small business on the side. Learn how to invest in and manage Real Estate.
Learn more about computers, accounting, finance, statistics, management, marketing or whatever.
Forget this nonsense about wanting to be able to converse with her relatives (once every two years or so) or showing respect for her. To show respect for her, study the culture, history, geography, etc., of FSU.
-
Don't do it.
Use the time you would waste trying to learn Russian to further your education. Get an MBA or whatever. Increase your earning potential. Start a small business on the side. Learn how to invest in and manage Real Estate.
Learn more about computers, accounting, finance, statistics, management, marketing or whatever.
Forget this nonsense about wanting to be able to converse with her relatives (once every two years or so) or showing respect for her. To show respect for her, study the culture, history, geography, etc., of FSU.
Noted, i do a lot of reading already, and real estate is something i focus a lot of attention on. 30minutes spent on learning russian won't harm me. Plus i am looking to actually talk to the locals in fsu, not only relying on the internet to meet women, as the women i like aren't very common on dating sites. Maybe you thought i was spending a few hours a day on russian? :P
-
Noted, i do a lot of reading already, and real estate is something i focus a lot of attention on. 30minutes spent on learning russian won't harm me. Plus i am looking to actually talk to the locals in fsu, not only relying on the internet to meet women, as the women i like aren't very common on dating sites. Maybe you thought i was spending a few hours a day on russian? :P
I've found even 30 min a day hard with work commitments, though I guess it depends on what you do. While pacing yourself learning the language is probably a good approach I think any necessary depth in the language may take years. Going out there can help a bit as you can become accustomed and aclimatised to its use - regional accents, frequently used words, etc. I think it is an interesting approach you are taking. I know a guy on here year's ago suggested learning Russian and getting immersed in their culture as a worthy approach - he had met his wife while she was working on the checkout in a store, because he spoke to her in Russian it helped a lot, think he was working out there at the time as a language teacher. So, fits in a little with my original idea of just turn up though for a brief period that may have been unrealistic. I do hear thiugh that sometimes your better off speaking English than speaking Russian poorly as many Russians really dig hearing English being spoken as its seen as being desirable out there - western culture. I agree on the internet sites I don't think there a great approach, tours appeal to me a little but maybe a little costly for a few nights in a club but then again if you find someone who's I to you. Though that said for you of course looking for a virgin might be a tough get on a tour though I hear some good girls do occasionally turn up.
-
sticky material :thumbsup:
Use the time you would waste trying to learn Russian to further your education. Get an MBA or whatever. Increase your earning potential. Start a small business on the side. Learn how to invest in and manage Real Estate.
Learn more about computers, accounting, finance, statistics, management, marketing or whatever.
Forget this nonsense about wanting to be able to converse with her relatives (once every two years or so) or showing respect for her. To show respect for her, study the culture, history, geography, etc., of FSU.
-
Don't do it.
Use the time you would waste trying to learn Russian to further your education. Get an MBA or whatever. Increase your earning potential. Start a small business on the side. Learn how to invest in and manage Real Estate.
Learn more about computers, accounting, finance, statistics, management, marketing or whatever.
Forget this nonsense about wanting to be able to converse with her relatives (once every two years or so) or showing respect for her. To show respect for her, study the culture, history, geography, etc., of FSU.
A lot of guys here believe learning the language is important to attract women and show respect but I'm with ML on this one. I didn't need to learn the language to attract my wife but one day, while being married, she asked my why I don't learn her language. I told her I'm either working out in the field or working or estimating costs to bid on work that feeds multiple families in the company. What is more important? I also told her that a person can only do and learn so much and should focus on what is beneficial to advance in life. She has criticized for wasting time on the forum with you guys but I told her people need help and I'm trying to save the world. You guys know the truth though. I'm here to relieve tension when I take out my frustrations on you. I kinda like it. It's better than domestic violence since there's no jail time involved.
-
I think any necessary depth in the language may take years. Going out there can help a bit as you can become accustomed and aclimatised to its use - regional accents, frequently used words, etc.
I agree, learning fluent russian takes many years, an average person takes i believe around 1500 hours if their native language is english, so i will be looking at 3000 :P
But a basic grasp of the language doesn't require that much time and effort. As long as you can say a few things, you are 90% there, from my experience on mamba, unless you speak some russian, don't bother. But if you do speak a little russian, like myself, you can get a replies. I don't think it is necessary to learn Russian, unless you are planning to talk to women in everyday life, and bars in russia, which i plan on doing
he had met his wife while she was working on the checkout in a store, because he spoke to her in Russian it helped a lot
What i plan on doing, but more in shopping malls and in red square or st petersburg
Though that said for you of course looking for a virgin might be a tough get on a tour though I hear some good girls do occasionally turn up.
Tours are great, but i looked at dream connections and none of the women really appealed to me,plus a Tour is just like going into a bar. That is why i have accepted the idea i will need to rely on sites, and to go direct and approach women in russia. I am not looking for a virgin anymore really, type of girl that i like is the one in this video for example, i just want someone to really blow me away. I am sure i can meet a girl like that online, i done it a few times before, but i kind of like the adventure and the excuse to put myself out there.
-
A lot of guys here believe learning the language is important to attract women and show respect but I'm with ML on this one. I didn't need to learn the language to attract my wife but one day, while being married, she asked my why I don't learn her language. I told her I'm either working out in the field or working or estimating costs to bid on work that feeds multiple families in the company. What is more important? I also told her that a person can only do and learn so much and should focus on what is beneficial to advance in life. She has criticized for wasting time on the forum with you guys but I told her people need help and I'm trying to save the world. You guys know the truth though. I'm here to relieve tension when I take out my frustrations on you. I kinda like it. It's better than domestic violence since there's no jail time involved.
This is true, I've bought all sorts of programs to learn the language and a few free ones, still I have only really dipped into it so far and learned the basics. Even by basic standards my grasp is basic, lol. I just never seem to get enough time to spend on it - I have a full on job, knackered afterwards, free time all sorts of essential to do stuff crops up, even as mundane as haircuts, shopping, etc. Then of course there is time taken out for messaging and skyping. Yet the girl often seems to think you have loads of time to spare, I don't think they realize the time it takes just to message & occasionally skype. Knowing a bit of the language no doubt aids when th woman knows little English but end of the day its the eyes/chemistry that tells.
-
Knowing a bit of the language no doubt aids when th woman knows little English but end of the day its the eyes/chemistry that tells.
I see no benefit if you are on dating sites, just aids you when talking to women in person. What i tend to do is spend 20mins listening to an audio book, and play the audio book on repeat over night, i have the book split into chapters. My goal is to have the basics down next year, when i feel more serious about my search, for now i am cruising on the sites, just messaging girls i find very attractive. 3 days ago i found myself a drop dead gorgeous girl, says on her profile she was a 28 to 35 year old, she is 22, but she favorited me. Some of the stuff i learnt from here is doing me so good lol,way i talk to a woman is different.
-
I see no benefit if you are on dating sites, just aids you when talking to women in person. What i tend to do is spend 20mins listening to an audio book, and play the audio book on repeat over night, i have the book split into chapters. My goal is to have the basics down next year, when i feel more serious about my search, for now i am cruising on the sites, just messaging girls i find very attractive. 3 days ago i found myself a drop dead gorgeous girl, says on her profile she was a 28 to 35 year old, she is 22, but she favorited me. Some of the stuff i learnt from here is doing me so good lol,way i talk to a woman is different, i know more about what she wants to hear rather than what gets her wet.
What get's her wet is good to hear about? :P Just be careful with dating sites, got another removed girl I was chatting to on EM earlier which while good that they are removing them still means I've been messaging on a site where half the girls have become known as dodgy in some way, the other half I don't hold much hope for either. I just get the feeling that even on pay monthly sites your up against it as they have become full of girls interested in stuff other than what they are supposed to be there for - committed relationships. A long term feet on the ground approach may indeed be the best way.
-
What get's her wet is good to hear about? :P Just be careful with dating sites, got another removed girl I was chatting to on EM earlier which while good that they are removing them still means I've been messaging on a site where half the girls have become known as dodgy in some way, the other half I don't hold much hope for either. I just get the feeling that even on pay monthly sites your up against it as they have become full of girls interested in stuff other than what they are supposed to be there for - committed relationships. A long term feet on the ground approach may indeed be the best way.
i learnt a lot from here, way the guys talk, how to be more serious when talking to a woman, still throwing in some humor. I am actually really buzzing to go try out some approaching in Russia, join EM, and a few more sites, and get my search on the way. I feel like i got a good rhythm now, what i learnt on here, with my quirky humor, will go down well in russia.
-
I've been messaging on a site where half the girls have become known as dodgy in some way, the other half I don't hold much hope for either. I just get the feeling that even on pay monthly sites your up against it as they have become full of girls interested in stuff other than what they are supposed to be there for - committed relationships.
(http://s33.postimg.org/ky6yvzkr3/convo.png)
It is easy to avoid gold diggers, just be transparent about your life, if you have anything of value, don't say, it is pretty simple really.
(http://s33.postimg.org/h8chba47j/image.png)
It is of the opinion of my Russian friend that the girl i am talking to now is the hottest girl so far, all i did was combine the stuff i learnt from here. How to come across better to these women, you really don't need money for them. Russian women are known for the "money game" term used on roosh forum, which means a big wallet will take you very far, hence why you see some of the users here with younger wives. Won't mention any names, but a certain someone on here that claims to be a weapons dealer, has a yacht, lives in the Bahamas, buying copious amount of physical gold, 4 books, spent hundreds of thousands on women during a 3 year search, and preaches all women love money, will attract women that "will never really love you", words from my female Russian friend. i really do believe that majority of women are interested in your wallet, but you can get away with far less than what you think, if a woman truly likes you. some users here had women when they had plenty money, guess what happened when they lost it? Their wives dropped them like hot coal, so much for years of being married being proof that a woman loves you,these are guys that married fsuw.
-
Is it just me ... ? Why spend all that wasted time chatting - when you could be a least having a virtual face to face conversation - seeing emotions, facial expressions..
-
Is it just me ... ? Why spend all that wasted time chatting - when you could be a least having a virtual face to face conversation - seeing emotions, facial expressions..
I agree with you, you posted once that if you like someone, just hop on the plane within 2 weeks. i am just simply not serious about my search as of yet. It will take a lot for me to change my mind.
-
Is it just me ... ? Why spend all that wasted time chatting - when you could be a least having a virtual face to face conversation - seeing emotions, facial expressions..
+1
I agree with you, you posted once that if you like someone, just hop on the plane within 2 weeks. i am just simply not serious about my search as of yet. It will take a lot for me to change my mind.
Then what is the point in these chats at all other than to pass the time and stroke your ego? Just a waste of your time and even more so hers if you are not serious in your search. Just my opinion FWIW.
-
Then what is the point in these chats at all other than to pass the time and stroke your ego? Just a waste of your time and even more so hers if you are not serious in your search. Just my opinion FWIW.
Because i have no idea if i will feel something more than just physical desire, if i do, then i am game. i am not even feeling to sleep with these women, i just stick with women in UK who are up for casual sex. i don't feel like deceiving people into thinking i want a relationship, saw what it did to guys like roosh. If i can keep my compassionate side, work on myself, i will do good when i am serious about my search.
-
Because i have no idea if i will feel something more than just physical desire, if i do, then i am game. i am not even feeling to sleep with these women, i just stick with women in UK who are up for casual sex. i don't feel like deceiving people into thinking i want a relationship, saw what it did to guys like roosh. If i can keep my compassionate side, work on myself, i will do good when i am serious about my search.
I'm not having a go at you, I just think you're totally confused about what it is you're looking for. You also said this:
I am not looking for a virgin anymore really, type of girl that i like is the one in this video for example, i just want someone to really blow me away. I am sure i can meet a girl like that online, i done it a few times before, but i kind of like the adventure and the excuse to put myself out there.
I watched the video and the girl didn't say a word, which to me contradicts some of the other things you've been saying, like above about it being more than looks and staying in the UK to get casual sex. It's not a criticism; I am only a couple of years older than you and was where you were a few years ago.
-
I'm not having a go at you, I just think you're totally confused about what it is you're looking for.
like above about it being more than looks
Purely is looks for me, my attraction to Slavic women has been based on looks only,nothing to do with fsuw vs western women personality. when i do decide to pursue this for a lifetime partner, i will definitely be more critical on the woman's personality rather than just looks.
-
Hi All,
I am zabiulla from india , looking for Russian women for marriage.
Could you please help me.
I am post graduate in master of business administration and working for 7 years in india.
-
Hi All,
I am zabiulla from india , looking for Russian women for marriage.
Could you please help me.
I am post graduate in master of business administration and working for 7 years in india.
You have been posting the same thing for the past five years.
In that time you could have found a ice Indian woman , of which there are many, I’m sure and been married with kids, by now.
In any case, I doubt any Russian women would be interested.