List of GOOD SITES?

[Daveman]

 


You are absolutely correct of course! There is and can possibly be Only One!


It was a case of Temporary Logic Regression Insanity!


And she does have some really really really nice... eyes!!

[Manny]

If men are really looking for the type of women agency sites promote, the last place to look is your typical agency. That's not the type of women agencies actually tend to recruit and attract.

That is a mantra popularised by service providers and others who are exponents of free sites. It has no basis in fact as a sweeping statement. Firstly, agencies come in all types. There are good ones, there are bad ones and there are some in-between. There are good women on bad sites and bad women on good sites. There is no such thing as "agency women". I suspect what you actually refer to is the young women that serve the foreign men industry that operates from many large Ukrainian towns and cities.

If you wish to talk about "agency women" as a whole, as you seem to do, that is simply not possible. They are not a breed of women that can be defined.

However, consider this as a notion: Many free sites are aimed at the Russian speaking market. That doesn't mean non Russian speaking foreigners. You are searching in a pool of women most of whom will have no desire to meet foreigners and relocate abroad.  With women featured at foreign facing agencies, the women are already self selected to be open to the idea of a foreigner. Simple huh? All the guy has to do then is quit writing teenagers in Kiev and Odessa who fleece dumb foreigners for a living, and write to some age appropriate women with whom they would look visually credible with.

I don't buy what you say about many men meeting their wives on "scam" sites. Nobody has met their wife through a true scam agency because there are no women there to be met, period.

It is not for you to 'buy'. You have distorted the meaning of my words slightly. What I actually said was:

There are many men around who have married women they found at what many here would term 'scam sites'. That tells us that men who actually know what they are doing can find their woman anywhere.

I bolded the bit that you missed.

Many have met their wives through what many here would term a scam agency. The sites have photographic proof and in some cases verified testimonials to back that up.

In reality, there are very few - if any - 'pure' scam sites. There are simply many sites, some of whom employ dubious practices and enable the women who serve the foreign men industry.

Forums tend to attract a particular demographic of bride seeker I find. Many forum posters repeat the 'all agencies are evil' mantra so much that those who met their wives elsewhere tend not to shout about it too much. I know many chaps personally married to women from pretty much any big site you may care to mention that some would term a scam site.

Men approach this whole thing from the wrong angle sometimes. Instead of asking "which are the good sites" as the OP did, it would be better to ask "how can I learn to get this right?" Approaching the endeavour with the correct attitude, knowledge, and a clear vision of what is and isn't possible is more important than the site you choose. If it were as simple as choosing a good site, forums such as this would not need to exist.

[JohnDearGreen]

If men are really looking for the type of women agency sites promote, the last place to look is your typical agency. That's not the type of women agencies actually tend to recruit and attract.

What do other members here think?

Many of the agencies define the ladies so that the ladies that get the most emails and are the most popular come out first from the search commands.   The ladies in the first few pages of your search results will be quite different from the ladies in the middle pages of your search results, and also very different from the ladies in the last pages of your search results.   I would agree with Manny on this one.   Just avoid the ladies in the first few pages of the search results, and move on down to the serious ones.

[Konfushus]

To Manny:

This forum and yours are fun and interesting and I'm sure they help some men, but they don't need to exist. Most men manage without them. You overestimate your knowledge and the value of your advice.

I wrote about tendencies and I'm writing about present times. The large sites that people here cry "scam" about are sites like Anastasia Web that work with multiple agencies.

How do you think women end up on these sites? Unlike sites on ML's list, they don't just sign up on the net. A lot respond to ads for work, contests and parties or are directly recruited. That's where your "self selected to find a foreigner" breaks down.
Definitely some women will seek out an agency or are brought in by friends but you guys should think about what attracts women to the site or agency that you are using.

Here's an exercise for you guys searching out there, and Manny you can do this too see where I'm coming from.

Put yourself in the shoes of a woman in Russia looking for a foreign man. 5 or 10 years ago a woman might need an agency or at least a net cafe. Today she just hops on the net from work or home. Search for a few terms in yandex.ru:

Знакомства США / Европу
Замуж США / Европу
замуж за иностранца

If she's looking for an agency specifically, try this брачное агентство
with different cities or towns.

LoL that this came up as a common search while I'm typing this. замуж за миллионера.

(Ladies here, please help me out, what other terms would make sense? My wife is sleeping.  )

Keep in mind that marriage agencies here do not get good press. The same type of documentaries that you guys have discussed on this site are seen in Russia. These might look great to an old coot in the US but think about how these look from a woman's point of view.

There are a lot of options out there without a woman having to sign up with a restrictive agency. Why would a woman bypass all of these options and end up on a site like Anastasia? I'll let you all think about it.

[Manny]

To Manny:

This forum and yours are fun and interesting and I'm sure they help some men, but they don't need to exist.

If they didn't need to exist, they wouldn't. Between this site and ours, you are suggesting that over half a million posts across 26,000 topics didn't need to be written and the content therein is unnecessary? I beg to differ.

You overestimate your knowledge and the value of your advice.

I am paid by some for my advice in this field. So again, I beg to differ.

The difference between us is that I can take on board alternative points of view and debate without personal barbs.

How do you think women end up on these sites? Unlike sites on ML's list, they don't just sign up on the net. A lot respond to ads for work, contests and parties or are directly recruited. That's where your "self selected to find a foreigner" breaks down.

Again, you are referring to a subset of the women on the larger sites. The ones roped in by 'free photo shoots' and the like are often likely to have less than stellar intent I agree. I covered up thread already how they are to be avoided. I stand my my statement; we'll agree to differ.

Definitely some women will seek out an agency or are brought in by friends but you guys should think about what attracts women to the site or agency that you are using.

I agree. Asking them might be more beneficial than merely thinking about it.

There are a lot of options out there without a woman having to sign up with a restrictive agency. Why would a woman bypass all of these options and end up on a site like Anastasia? I'll let you all think about it.

You are looking at this from the mans side only. Consider the women's angle. Very attractive women - especially those located where foreign men are an industry - will get a lot of mail. Answering it would be a full time job. Many of the men who write women write some pretty funny creepy stuff. Many are far from socialised. An agency allows a woman to filter out all that stuff.

Here's how it works: In places where foreign men are an industry (Odessa and Kiev for example), a nubile young girl with a good photoset will be inundated with mail. Whilst she might be open to the idea of a foreign guy, she might have in mind a rich Italian with a triangular torso. She will tell the site to only let through guys to her personally that fit her criteria. Lets say under 40, decent looking and affluent. Anyone who doesn't meet that criteria will just spend a few dollars writing to translators.

In this circumstance, the agency acts as a secretary. They pocket the revenue from the incoming mail from unsuitable candidates which they likely reply to. The women do not really care about the 'victims' of that. All they know is it is time efficient for them and they will get a trickle of non-greedy blokes to meet. Eventually, she will marry either one of those guys or maybe a local guy who ticks her boxes.

She will find her guy without needing to interview a stream of unsuitable types. The agency makes a few quid along the way.

You have given me a good idea for a topic there Konfushus. That concept eludes many men.

[Konfushus]

LoL Manny - What did I write that you consider a "personal barb"? There's an audience for this forum, not a need. The post and topic counts fail to impress. Sorry if that offends you personally.

Ok, clear. You've never been in an agency in Kiev or Odessa and express your theory of how they work. I've had drinks with agency owners and employees across Russia and Ukraine. I've seen "how it works". Your description is part accurate but mostly comical and a pathetic defense of the unethical. Have you even been to Ukraine? Where do you get your information?

Tell me, why focus on the "very attractive women" who get inundated by emails? Do you think that's the proper target audience for the men reading these forums? I don't, and that's why I wrote for men to consider how any women (including, but not limited to these women that are recruited and paid to attract clients).

What I wrote above was not from the "man's side only". I agree, asking women directly is best, but you're not not going to get straight answers from an agency translator.

I have asked many women directly how they ended up with an agency. I've hung out with agency recruiters. They could speak to me candidly as I wasn't an agency client and that's where my point of view comes from.

[Manny]

LoL Manny - What did I write that you consider a "personal barb"? There's an audience for this forum, not a need. The post and topic counts fail to impress. Sorry if that offends you personally.

Ok, clear. You've never been in an agency in Kiev or Odessa and express your theory of how they work. I've had drinks with agency owners and employees across Russia and Ukraine. I've seen "how it works". Your description is part accurate but mostly comical and a pathetic defense of the unethical. Have you even been to Ukraine? Where do you get your information?

Tell me, why focus on the "very attractive women" who get inundated by emails? Do you think that's the proper target audience for the men reading these forums? I don't, and that's why I wrote for men to consider how any women (including, but not limited to these women that are recruited and paid to attract clients).

What I wrote above was not from the "man's side only". I agree, asking women directly is best, but you're not not going to get straight answers from an agency translator.

I have asked many women directly how they ended up with an agency. I've hung out with agency recruiters. They could speak to me candidly as I wasn't an agency client and that's where my point of view comes from.

As we are wandering off topic here, dig about and you will find a fresh topic on the subject.


FWIW, while your comments suggest some experience, neglecting to fill in your side bio doesn't allow others to put your comments in the context of your claimed experience. Why not do that small thing?

[Admin]

As we are wandering off topic here, dig about and you will find a fresh topic on the subject.


FWIW, while your comments suggest some experience, neglecting to fill in your side bio doesn't allow others to put your comments in the context of your claimed experience. Why not do that small thing?

>>As we are wandering off topic here, dig about and you will find a fresh topic on the subject.<<

Am looking for it. Did you start a new topic here?

- Dan
 

[alex330]

There is no black and white with agencies. My wife was an agency woman. Her agency fed into Anastasia like most small agencies. She worked there over five years as an interpreter and was offered a mgmt position. I talked to her about how it all worked extensively while we dated. She would tell me about how dates went between foreign men and the agency girls after her day at work. I met her friends at the agency as well. I have seen her web login.

There are good ones, there are bad ones and there are some in-between. There are good women on bad sites and bad women on good sites. There is no such thing as "agency women". I suspect what you actually refer to is the young women that serve the foreign men industry that operates from many large Ukrainian towns and cities.

With women featured at foreign facing agencies, the women are already self selected to be open to the idea of a foreigner. Simple huh? All the guy has to do then is quit writing teenagers in Kiev and Odessa who fleece dumb foreigners for a living, and write to some age appropriate women with whom they would look visually credible with.

In reality, there are very few - if any - 'pure' scam sites. There are simply many sites, some of whom employ dubious practices and enable the women who serve the foreign men industry.

Correct for the most part. There are rogue interpreters, crooked agency owners, women looking to make money and gifts, scammers looking for easy money from foreign men, and wonderful women who are just trying something new in the hopes of finding a man. Some are open to meeting foreigners so have signed up. Their friends may have met a nice guy through an agency. Many women translate letters at home to get paid by the letter and have no intentions of meeting anybody. Some like free photo shoots and prizes.

I am told men writing women that were too young or out of their league was one of the largest reasons for failure.

The ladies in the first few pages of your search results will be quite different from the ladies in the middle pages of your search results, and also very different from the ladies in the last pages of your search results.  Just avoid the ladies in the first few pages of the search results, and move on down to the serious ones.

Very good advice. These women are more likely to be legitimately looking.

How do you think women end up on these sites?  A lot respond to ads for work, contests and parties or are directly recruited. Definitely some women will seek out an agency or are brought in by friends but you guys should think about what attracts women to the site or agency that you are using.

There are a lot of options out there without a woman having to sign up with a restrictive agency. Why would a woman bypass all of these options and end up on a site like Anastasia? I'll let you all think about it.

Correct. Many ladies are just working. I would stay away from top women at the large sites. But anything is possible. A woman's friend may have had luck at a site or they signed up at a small agency that just feeds into a larger one.

Very attractive women - especially those located where foreign men are an industry - will get a lot of mail. Answering it would be a full time job. Many of the men who write women write some pretty funny creepy stuff. Many are far from socialised. An agency allows a woman to filter out all that stuff.

Here's how it works: In places where foreign men are an industry (Odessa and Kiev for example), a nubile young girl with a good photoset will be inundated with mail. Whilst she might be open to the idea of a foreign guy, she might have in mind a rich Italian with a triangular torso. She will tell the site to only let through guys to her personally that fit her criteria. Lets say under 40, decent looking and affluent. Anyone who doesn't meet that criteria will just spend a few dollars writing to translators.

In this circumstance, the agency acts as a secretary. They pocket the revenue from the incoming mail from unsuitable candidates which they likely reply to. The women do not really care about the 'victims' of that. All they know is it is time efficient for them and they will get a trickle of non-greedy blokes to meet. Eventually, she will marry either one of those guys or maybe a local guy who ticks her boxes.

She will find her guy without needing to interview a stream of unsuitable types. The agency makes a few quid along the way.

This is also true. But I have heard not as often. A young hottie will have many options at home. Women who love pricey vacations and very expensive gifts use this method and travel with different men. She will tell her translator (aka rep) to let he know if anybody interesting pops up. They may settle down with one of the men eventually. Agencies make more than a few quid 

[Konfushus]

Profile updated. Thanks for pointing that out. I may post an intro but it seems people get to know each other here over time through posts and that's fine by me too.

I don't see the other topic.

If it's about how agencies operate, it's not interesting to me to discuss that with you. I don't think you've been inside a single agency in Ukraine. I don't think you've been to Ukraine at all. You do have business associations with owners of sites that work with the type of Ukrainian agencies that I think men should avoid. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

On this topic, it's about good sites and I think the list presented is pretty good. I advise with any site for a guy to research a bit and think. How does that site attract women? How do they advertise and get female clients? How easy or difficult is it for a women to sign up with that site? What other choices are available?

Manny gave an example of a hot chick let's say looking for a rich Italian with a triangular torso. With the choices out there today where will she most likely find a dude like that... Anastasia Web or maybe Badoo (an international dating and social site used by a lot of Italians). These girls ain't dumb. They know what's out there.

[CDW]

Wait for a few minutes. ML will be here with his list. 

Thought the same thing too 

[AmericanBoy]

Hello Eduard,

I'm in a wonderful marriage and also wouldn't have it any other way!

I met my wife because I was (and am) living in Russia. I can't recommend for someone to do what I did, because I didn't come here in search of a wife. I could have never found her from afar as she was never on any dating site. 

For most guys out there, I'd say don't do it, not based on my life, but on what I've seen, especially amongst couples in the US. Maybe I'll share some gorey details later. If a guy has considerable time off to actually live in Russia, yeah go for it. Good chance you'll have a blast and can find a very nice wife if that's the goal. If a guy's in a normal situation with 2-3 weeks vacation per year it's a very risky proposition. In this case ML's list is a good one.

There's a lot of good women here. There's a lot of bad women here. Pretty much like anywhere else. Dating here is easy and there are a lot of advantage to being the foreigner new kid in town if you live here. If you don't, the first thing guys see is this very enticing barrier to finding a good wife known as the mail order bride industry.

ML advocates using common dating sites to meet normal women, casting a wide net and avoid agencies. Skirt that barrier. Makes a lot of common sense to me.

What do you recommend?

I agree with this sto percent! If you guys have the chance, I'd definately  go to russia and try meeting some girls randomly. Like Konfushus, my quest had nothing to do with  "wife seeking" and there were a handful of top notch girls I could have married had I wanted. I really don't like the idea of finding a wife who is looking for an escape from russia.

[Daveman]

I agree with this sto percent! If you guys have the chance, I'd definately  go to russia and try meeting some girls randomly. Like Konfushus, my quest had nothing to do with  "wife seeking" and there were a handful of top notch girls I could have married had I wanted. I really don't like the idea of finding a wife who is looking for an escape from russia.

Well, it's probably better (and definitely safer in the long run) to find single ladies..