The Struggle For Ukraine

[Trenchcoat]

EU is now sending Fighter Jets to Ukraine,which the Ukrainian pilots know how to fly.


According to the Ukraine President Russia has now lost 4,500 military personnel.


The Rouble has sunk to an all-time low.

Yeah it sounds to reason that they would have lost similar to the Russians. The other figures I think we're just for civilians though that figure may have not been all that certain or a daily figure.

The general idea I get is that the two sides seem fairly evenly matched with the cities giving the Ukrainians a good defensive position. Apparently the main bulk of Russia's Army hadn't reached Kyiv yet so they are kind off making pretty slow progress.

If the Russian economy starts to do real bad then that is what might end this war for the Russians, eventually.

[JohnDearGreen]

Russian Buk destroyed near Kyiv by TB2 drone

http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=684223203027915

[Trenchcoat]

The head of the EU has said she thinks Ukraine should be allowed to join.

Zelensky is saying that he would consider non-aligned status of not joining NATO.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail tomorrow at the meeting.  I think both sides could walk away saving face if they agreed that Ukraine could join the EU, but would not join NATO.  The war ends, and the Donbass (and maybe Crimea) is returned to Ukraine.

Both sides could come out getting something they wanted.  Ukraine could get in the EU, the fighting ends, and regain territory.  Russia has Ukraine as a buffer zone keeping NATO at bay.

The EU is a menace and behind a lot of the reason why this has all come about. I don't see Ukraine joining the EU nor do I think it would be a good idea. The EU are now stony broke having taken on a huge Covid debt. Ukraine's economy will be in a very poor state as a result of Covid and this war including the embargo from the Black Sea. The EU has little money to give them and they can't raise more from the wealthier western states who are also feeling the pinch.

In addition if Ukraine joined before the war ended in theory an attack on one state is an attack on all states under the EU treaty. Whether that applies to a new member that is already been attacked who knows. The threat either way is that the EU as a whole gets dragged into the war and member states won't like that. Plus it could bring in NATO as Eastern States are also NATO members.

Zelensky is angling to get in both that annoys me as it will almost likely being a bigger problem by escalating the conflict just to try and solve his own immediate problem. He's essentially trying to make Ukraine's problem our problem which it is not. I feel for Ukraine but I don't think Zelensky should be allowed to get away with trying to be a bit too slick in trying to get us roped up to this problem. Mass slaughter of our own people in a world war is something we can do well without. If that is how we are talked into it I won't be hanging around to fight it ain't my doing as I'm arguing against it, I'll be off, just too much off a genius to be cannon fodder on that one

[Jumper1]

This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.

There's a validity in what he's saying as to why Russian troops are circling and stopping 20 miles out of the major cities, including Kyiv.

I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...

[BillyB]

I wanted to come back to make one very important post so you all have a better understanding of what is going on. Forget everything you learned from the media about Ukraine, Afghanistan, politics, and other issues around the world. The truth is our Western media puts out as much propaganda as the media in countries you despise. WE are in an information war and most people's minds do not know what is going on which means most people are incapacitated. How do you resist and fight back when you don't understand there is a problem?

 
How would you feel if America attacked Canada, Mexico, and Cuba without justification? You would be angry at America. But... what if you learned Putin put biological weapons labs in Canada, chemical weapons plants in Mexico, and nuclear bases in Cuba? Then you would call Putin and Russia the aggressors and America's neighbor nations deserved to be attacked since they allowed weapons of mass destruction to be created on their land.

 
I'm here to tell you that America and Western Europe want this war in Ukraine. Get mad at them. There are a variety of reasons Putin is attacking Ukraine and some are actually good reasons. Our Western nations have been doing things that violate treaties with Russia under the disguise of “gain of function”. Guess where you heard that before. We have been funding China to create super viruses and we have been funding Ukraine to create super bacteria and telling everybody it's to in turn create powerful medicines to help humanity. Here is info of a lab in Ukraine. Last page shows funding by George Soros and other international partners. Western nations have been outsourcing the manufacturing of weapons of mass destruction to other countries. We've created dangerous labs next door to Russia and using Ukraine to create pathogens that can harm humanity. Western nations intentionally put Ukraine and it's people at risk of war and disease.

 
http://www.stcu.int/documents/reports/distribution/tpf/ipf/bio/ua/pdf/UAPRI_IPF_Odesa_Ukraine.pdf

 
Because Putin isn't going all out in this war tells me he's not totally evil. He has sent only a small percentage of Russian troops into Ukraine and he's allowed communications and internet to continue. Putin has put his troops at additional risk by letting the enemy communicate. If Hillary and her people can hack into the White House and spy on a sitting president, you can be sure Russian hackers could hack into anything and shut it down. Over the years I've heavily criticized Putin but it's possible this time he is saving the lives of hundreds of millions if not billions of people by going after those biolabs and stopping other Deeps State projects in Ukraine. He knows Western nations funded the creation of the coronavirus and released it on humanity on purpose. He knows it can be done again.

 
I've posted many links to info on this forum but if you are led to water, it's up to you to drink. There's much more wrong in this world I can tell you but if you “don't get it” with the biolabs in Ukraine, you want to remain blind. People have unearth many videos of Bill Gates and other leaders of the World economic forum saying there are too many people on earth. You can find a 2010 TED talk on youtube where Bill Gates says we can control population with reproductive health care(fancy name for abortions), and vaccines. The current vaccines are compromising people's reproductive systems and immune systems the way HIV does which can lead to AIDS. Later in life you will easily get sick from something else which in turn will kill you. In my circle of friends, I know one guy who's testicles grew to the size of tennis balls and 5 women who miscarried after taking the vaccine. Other tools for world depopulation are war and inflation. People are less likely to have kids when life is expensive in a world where the future is uncertain.

 
Some of your heroes in politics want us to be uncomfortable and promote human suffering while propaganda media tells you it's someone else's fault. They get rich when there are problems. If government and life is running smooth, we are less likely to donate money since there are no problems to fix.

 
Guys like George Soros and his organizations are banned by a few countries including Russia. He should be banned if not imprisoned by America. He has funded election law change in America making it easier to cheat and he has installed puppet politicians in our government to influence policy. Our tax dollars are sent around the world to make biological weapons as a sample of the evil Soros has done on our nation.

 
I am ashamed of what America has become. Our government leaders are imposters controlled by others. They cheated their way into power and are making the world a more dangerous place with policies that enrich themselves and  destroy humanity with a propaganda media that portrays them as the good guys.

 
What can be done? Follow the links I provided in the past. Wake up and become active in this fight. We are in an information war and they've turned most of us into sheeple. I've been to 4 public hearings with some of my state Representatives telling us of the corruption and they want to stop the election fraud. Trump is spending heavily thiring people to go all over the country to educate us about what is going on. Our government at all levels are being taken over. Our school boards are promoting Communist ideologies. Our media fails to expose corrupt politicians and promoting stories that get us to hate each other to the point we are fighting and focusing on each other instead of our government. Black against white, women, against men, Christians against Muslims, straight against gays are all engineered problems created by our government, not created by ourselves.

 
Where are we at in this fight? Good people are fighting on behalf of all of us which most of us still asleep and don't know what is going on. We already have one election fraud case in the Supreme Court. How many of you know that? If you didn't know that, switch media sources you rely on. They want to keep you ignorant. The case has been there over 120 days and it hasn't been rejected. It has been assigned a case number but the case has been sealed so we can't monitor the progress. We are trying to get at least two more election fraud cases into the Supreme Court and they may happen soon. Hopefully the Judicial Branch will act independent instead of being a puppet of the other two branches and do the right thing. Hopefully we will wake up one day with them ordering the removal of the corrupt government and order new elections. Unfortunately SCOTUS chief Judge Roberts flew on Epstein's Lolita Express and he may be compromised. Notice how he regularly voted on the right changed to now voting on the left after flying on the Lolita Express? Last time SCOTUS made a very bad decision was denying Dred Scott, a black man, freedom because he didn't have standing in court because he was a slave, not a citizen. It led to the Civil War. If we don't reverse course, this world is going to become a very dangerous place with America providing most of the financing for the danger. The World Economic forum says the population should be reduced to 500 million people. 15 out of every 16 people need to go. You can be part of the cattle herd that voluntarily walks into the slaughter house or you can resist. Resist the media, resist the corrupt governments, and resist the vaccines.

 
Some people in the Catholic church say the Pope is Satan and the Deep Church is in control just as the Deep State is in control of Western governments. I talked to a Catholic priest recently. He too believes Satan has infiltrated the Catholic church. We both agree there is a battle for our lives, our future generations and our souls.

 
 Your media doesn't want you to know about this and the other cases approaching the front door of SCOTUS. Look at the remedy that's being asked. If you care about Ukraine and want peace in this world, pray that we win. Our current governments in power want war.
http://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A9b67a285-ea97-47c2-8219-2e6a361c11c8&fbclid=IwAR3hVhEnW9eIE1RLy47Vs6XJxseNdbHjP6KnqGLMY-db8Gg5ste3NjoIXQ0#pageNum=1

[GQBlues]

I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...

Heaven forbid!


The encirclement will simply starve out the Ukrainians within by cutting off their supplies. Putin could well sit this one out as long as it takes, or via these negotiations, until his objectives are obtained - or maybe even a politically compromised version of one.


As for the point this guy makes about arming civilians/videos of civilians dead - I admit that is a very valid point.

[fathertime]

 
......I'm here to tell you that America and Western Europe want this war in Ukraine. Get mad at them. There are a variety of reasons Putin is attacking Ukraine and some are actually good reasons.


......Because Putin isn't going all out in this war tells me he's not totally evil.
 
......I am ashamed of what America has become. 
 

BillyB, You aren't dead yet! 

I've lost a lot of respect for America a while back.  Somewhere along the way we have become a major global problem.   

...Putin will be considered a war criminal after this (By the West), and will always have a bullseye on him...he has less and less to lose.

Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...

They assumed the population would not resist them.  That was a major miscalculation. 

Ukrainians have died for free elections.  I don't think they really cared whether politically, they leaned to Russia vs the EU.  It's always been about living a better life, with freedom.  Ukraine is corrupt, its politicians compromised.  It's messy.  But, it is free and those politicians are democratically elected.  It will take decades, probably a century or two, before Ukraine is free of corruption.  But Ukrainians deserve the freedom they protested and died for.  What they don't deserve is to be a Russian vassal state, for a Russia that is not only authoritarian, but also as corrupt as Ukraine.

[fathertime]

This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.

There's a validity in what he's saying as to why Russian troops are circling and stopping 20 miles out of the major cities, including Kyiv.

This is an excellent explanation.  Perhaps it is true.   

It seems that zelensky  and the West  have rallied the Ukrainians to fight and that will bode badly for them the longer it continues....in my opinion.   It may be considered a 'win' for Europe and the US, as Russia will have a damaged country to siphon some of their resources.   Of course, Russia can raise the price of their natural resources though, so if that happens it will be the common people that pay across Europe.   

Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

http://www.stcu.int/documents/reports/distribution/tpf/ipf/bio/ua/pdf/UAPRI_IPF_Odesa_Ukraine.pdf

Hah! Censored!!!

[Boethius]

This is an excellent explanation.  Perhaps it is true.   

It seems that zelensky  and the West  have rallied the Ukrainians to fight and that will bode badly for them the longer it continues....in my opinion.   It may be considered a 'win' for Europe and the US, as Russia will have a damaged country to siphon some of their resources.   Of course, Russia can raise the price of their natural resources though, so if that happens it will be the common people that pay across Europe.   

Fathertime!   

No, I think the analysis doesn't take into account that people, in general, don't like to be ruled by foreign powers.  I know people who work in the government of Ukraine, at the highest levels.  I know the several of the lawyers who drafted Ukraine's constitution.  No matter what some here say, their government is not run by the US, or the EU.  Were it, it would be more efficient than it is. That is why Ukrainians are fighting. They don't want a puppet regime installed.

[Boethius]

Hah! Censored!!!

I could open it.  It's just a brochure for an epidemiological institute in Odesa.  It studies infectious disease.

[Chelseaboy]

I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...

I didn't watch it all...as soon as he said Putin is avoiding targeting civilians i turned it off.


How does that tally up with his use of Grad missiles against civilians in Kharkiv today ?

[Chelseaboy]

I could open it.  It's just a brochure for an epidemiological institute in Odesa.  It studies infectious disease.

Yep i read it.


Nothing there to justify Putin invading Ukraine and killing civilians.

[ML]

This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.

This is total BS.  The guy is a Russian plant.
Sure the civilian population will be happy to be taken over since they aren't being killed and only their soldier husbands and sons are being killed.

[ML]

This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.

Thinking that a city that is supported by nations (outside of Russia) around the world can be starved out is beyond ridiculous.  I guess many haven't even heard of the Berlin airlifts.

[ML]

This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.

And more lies about Russia trying to avoid civilian killings.

http://www.google.com/search?q=civilians+being+killed+in+Kharkiv&oq=civilians+being+killed+in+Kharkiv&aqs=chrome..69i57.8664j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[ML]

It seems that many European nations are ignoring Mad Vlad's threat regarding Nukes.

Sweden and Germany sending valuable weapons.

Some others sending warplanes.

Will Mad Vlad's Generals ignore his order to launch ?

[ML]

Wife says that locals in Ukraine have reported that some Belarus soldiers have refused orders to attack into Ukraine.

I don't see anything about that on Internet.

Anyone have info ?

[ML]

I wanted to come back to make one very important post so you all have a better understanding of what is going on. Forget everything you learned from the media about Ukraine, Afghanistan, politics, and other issues around the world. The truth is our Western media puts out as much propaganda as the media in countries you despise. WE are in an information war and most people's minds do not know what is going on which means most people are incapacitated. How do you resist and fight back when you don't understand there is a problem?

Billy, I thought your absence meant you were in treatment for your hallucinations.

Have you now gone off of your treatment regimen?

[GQBlues]

I wanted to come back to make one very important post ...

BillyB-

I thought you caught the bug and got vaccinated and too embarrassed to come back and admit it here! 

C'mon...surely you can post two or 3 more posts?

Is your MIL still in UA, or here with you guys?

[JohnDearGreen]

Wife says that locals in Ukraine have reported that some Belarus soldiers have refused orders to attack into Ukraine.

I don't see anything about that on Internet.

Anyone have info ?

Not sure that Belarus has ordered any on ground yet.  They are coming today in 20 helicopters.
Russians have been walking out for several days.
http://www.unian.ua/war/na-moskvu-svojim-hodom-na-sumshchini-okupanti-kinuli-tehniku-ta-pishli-v-rf-pishki-video-novini-donbasu-11722486.html

http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/pod-zaporozhem-okkupanty-brosili-btry-i-sbezhali-na-otzhatyh-avtomobilyah-1605894.html
"The locals also learned from the Russian military that they were given dry rations for two days, but the invasion dragged on and famine set in."   Also the dry rations given had an expiration date of 2015.

[Trenchcoat]

Billy it's great to see you post on here after what seems a time ago. I've wondered what you would have made of the present situation. I have wondered if all the virus and present situation where we might be dragged into a war is a way to cut down on population. We shall see I guess. Zelensky seems to be gunning to drag the EU/NATO into this conflict and if he succeed for me that spells WWIII. I wonder if it's all a lot of gameplay put on for show and the outcome is already agreed upon that we will end up in a world war to cut the population down. I sincerely hope kit which is why I really hope the war will be kept to Ukraine.

I think you make a good point as to why Russia hasn't gone in more heavy there does indeed seem something curiously amiss there.

I myself have no wish to jump into the ins & outs of talk or evidence of bio labs. That stuff is way too heavy for me to want to indulge. I'm not saying if anyone is wrong or right just that it's not something I wish to entertain. I am generally in favour of Ukraine  but have my on reservations on it all. I don't wish to see Zelensky join or drag the EU & NATO into this and I am hoping there isn't a lot more gameplay at hand than on the face of it.

Only time will tell but for me if there is a move that ropes the EU/NATO into a conflict I will not be a part of it and will be off to avoid it all as best I can.

I personally believe the planet is overpopulated and that it is plausible that these are the ways of cutting down on the population by our leaders. Of course the real big population center is India so I guess that would be the place they should target, maybe too obvious or maybe there is no grand plan, who knows, guess we'll find out soon if they chose to go world war direction with all of this. I recall Krim on here also believed in a Russia/Ukraine war after the virus and terrible things. So perhaps sone people know some things. Either it will happen or it won't I guess.

[Chelseaboy]

If anyone drags NATO into this it will be Mad Vlad ...with his Nuclear Weapons threats.


He wasn't just threatening Ukraine with Nuclear weapons.


You will be part of it if the Nukes start flying..and you can thank Putin for that.

[JohnDearGreen]

Ukraine pilots will fly out of Poland airstrips with 70 donated planes from Poland, Bulgaria, Slovakia.
http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/evropa-peredast-ukraine-70-istrebiteley-mig-29-i-su-25-dlya-aviaudarov-po-agressoru-1605977.html