My belated trip report from 2011!

[PeterWarrick9]

Hi All,

I visited Ukraine in March of 2011 for 7 weeks. I was 28 years old.

It all began in 2009 when I met some local girls (I'm from the East Coast USA) that were from Ukraine but living in my city. I was blown away by how interesting, educated and easy to talk to they were. I met 3 and dated 1 for a few months before she left to go home.

I discovered some RW messageboards and figured that I had to visit the FSU myself.  I did a lot of research into the trip and was confident that I was not going to get scammed or suffer some type of disaster.

In February 2011, I went to Kiev for a week and Dnepropetrovsk for 6 weeks. I had a young guy that was my guide (if anyone needs a good guide for Ukraine, send me a PM and I'll give you his info. I still keep in touch with him.)

A month before I went to Ukraine, I joined Elena's Models and sent out some Expressions of Interest. I had some good prospects to meet. I studied a little Russian and knew about 10 phrases.

When my plane landed in Kiev, I met my guide. As we drove through the city and I saw the crumbling apartment buildings, I asked myself "What the hell have I gotten myself into?"

We stayed in a hotel in Kiev for a night then took the train to Dnepr. The train ride was amazing. It reminded me of being in a James Bond movie. I loved it.

When we arrived at Dnepr, I checked out a few apartments with my guide. It was cold out; real cold. I was glad that I brought a scarf because I would have turned into a popsicle without it. (Oh, I also WAY over-packed...2 huge suitcases. That was a mistake.)

My guide was great. We settled on an apartment a few blocks from the city center (Karl Marx Avenue) which was behind a grocery store with an internet cafe. I spent a lot of time there and made friends with the teenagers that worked there, although we didn't speak the same language, but I knew about 10 phrases in Russian.

My guide left and went back to his town in west Ukraine. I was on my own for over a month. One thing that immediately shocked me was the air pollution in Dnepr. It was TERRIBLE. I would go walk in the city center and felt like I smoked a pack of cigarettes. It saddened me that so many people lived in such polluted conditions. It was brutal.

I walked near the river Dnepr and there were 2 factories pouring brown smoke in the air all day and night. It was also shocking how many women looked like super models. It seemed like all the women wore high heeled boots and fur coats. There were super models everywhere.

After a few days of getting acquainted, I met the first lady from Elena's Models. She was a lawyer and was a little older than me. We had a sushi dinner near Karl Marx Avenue. (I lived near Prospect Kirov...anyone know that area?)

She was very attractive and nice. She was impressed that I was "brave" enough to come to Dnpepr.

The day after I met the first lady, I got really sick. I was sick with flu-like symptoms for about 5 days. It was rough; I was stuck in my apartment drinking fizzy water (which I hate) because I couldn't read the labels on the water bottles

After I recovered, I took a train to Zaporozhye and met my second prospect from Elena's Models. She looked very different from her pictures and I didn't think we had good chemistry. My debit card wasn't working for dinner and I had to find an ATM and luckily, the ATM worked, or else I wouldn't have had any way to pay. Oy.

I took a bus home to Dnepr from Zap and went back to my apartment. It was cooold out. Brutal.

A couple days later, I met my 3rd prospect from Elena's Models. She was about 20 minutes late for our date and I stood outside the restaurant freezing until she showed up. We immediately hit it off; sparks were flying off the table (not literally, but you catch my drift.) We made plans to meet the next day.

The next day, we met in the city center and she took me to her Church. I was blown away. After this day, we dated for the remainder of my trip. One of the highlights of the trip was dancing at the night club in Dnepr on Women's Day. That was fun.

She was very nice. I didn't know how it was going to end because there was no way I was going to be able to come back to Ukraine shortly after that; I had to find a job when I returned.

I came back to the U.S. in March and kept in touch with her. A couple years later, she met and married a guy from Switzerland. She seems very happy and I'm very happy for her. I still e-mail her every few months or so.

So, that's my trip report. Here are my impressions of dating in Ukraine.

The positives are that it's really easy to meet attractive and intelligent women there. They all seemed easy to talk to. They were all nice. All of them liked me and I'm just an average guy.

The negatives are that they are very blunt (some of the dates felt like a job interview), suspicious of men in general and super stubborn. I noticed that I couldn't convince them of anything, regardless if I was right. Once they had their minds made up, that was it.

For example, with the 3rd lady, I told her of a cafe I just walked by that we could visit. She was absolutely certain that no cafe existed there. I promised her that there was; she was insistent that there wasn't. We walked there and it turns out I was right

Anyways, I'm glad I went. It was fun to visit a new country; I love to travel.

Overall, dating is difficult and requires a lot of time and effort, no matter where you live. Relationships are tough. I think that most marriages are going to end up failing in some way.

Some marriages are happy for life, but those are in the minority. Most marriages are going to have conflict, infidelity or will end in divorce; that's just the way it is, IMO.

I'm 35 now and jaded, I guess

I wish good luck to all the guys here!

If you have any questions, comments or criticism, please fire away!



 

[Donna_Pedro]

Interesting. My 30+yo child was dating asian girls while at school in Boston and thats ecaxtly what he said about them - all dates were worse than job interviews. all they were interested in was money.  THey asked what  his parentswere were doing for living and if we had property and what was it woth etc.. Pissed him off, until one of them explained that her parents borrowed heavily to send her to study in the US and they do not care about her grades or diplomas as long as she marries into big money. Pissed him off even more.  Well, he ended up meeting a russian girl via a dating site. Some sort og IQ Elite type of thing.   She was born in Russia but lived here since she was 14 yo.. She is completely adapted and has a good degree. I mean I do not understand why anybody needs these painful trips abroad  these days. THere are so many  nice women from all over the world  already here. They speak english, have jobs etc...

[GQBlues]

Peter-

So the obvious questions are:

Are you still unmarried? Did you continue dating in Ukraine, or decided to date at home?

The negatives are that they are very blunt (some of the dates felt like a job interview), suspicious of men in general and super stubborn. I noticed that I couldn't convince them of anything, regardless if I was right. Once they had their minds made up, that was it.

Yes. That's a very common observation for Slavic women. Not just Ukrainian or Russian. I found this trait amongst Czechs, Bulgarian and Slovaks, too. A bit toned down, Latina women.

[2tallbill]

My 30+yo child

I mean I do not understand why anybody needs these painful trips abroad  these days.

When I was 30 something I would have never dreamed going to Russia to meet a girl.
There were a zillion American girls that weren't cRaZy who would have loved to date
me (so they did).

When you get to be 40 something or 50 something, the good girls, the sane girls are 
all married to very happy men. Single women in their 40's and 50's who aren't 40 lbs
overweight and who don't take Prozac or Zoloft are rare. I dated Western women
in my 40's and my goal was to find one who was ONLY a little bit fat and ONLY a
little bit cRaZy.

I had no problem finding Single/Divorced girls who were happy to date me, but in Russia
there are seemingly unlimited women who are 40 years old, not married who aren't fat
or cRaZy. You can find cRaZy women in Russia but 80% or more are not.

[GQBlues]

When I was 30 something I would have never dreamed going to Russia to meet a girl.
There were a zillion American girls that weren't cRaZy who would have loved to date
me (so they did).

When you get to be 40 something or 50 something, the good girls, the sane girls are 
all married to very happy men. Single women in their 40's and 50's who aren't 40 lbs
overweight and who don't take Prozac or Zoloft are rare. I dated Western women
in my 40's and my goal was to find one who was ONLY a little bit fat and ONLY a
little bit cRaZy.

I had no problem finding Single/Divorced girls who were happy to date me, but in Russia
there are seemingly unlimited women who are 40 years old, not married who aren't fat
or cRaZy. You can find cRaZy women in Russia but 80% or more are not.

Bill-

A buddy of mine who got divorced less than 3 years ago started dating via match/eharmony. I would see him with a lot of gorgeous divorcees in the 40s and early 50s who are just stunning. Many of them are either from OC, South Bay, 1000 Oaks, Agoura Hills and Calabasas. Career-established, with $$ - most with their own homes, and are very stable personality-wise.

[PeterWarrick9]

Interesting. My 30+yo child was dating asian girls while at school in Boston and thats ecaxtly what he said about them - all dates were worse than job interviews. all they were interested in was money.  THey asked what  his parentswere were doing for living and if we had property and what was it woth etc.. Pissed him off, until one of them explained that her parents borrowed heavily to send her to study in the US and they do not care about her grades or diplomas as long as she marries into big money. Pissed him off even more.  Well, he ended up meeting a russian girl via a dating site. Some sort og IQ Elite type of thing.   She was born in Russia but lived here since she was 14 yo.. She is completely adapted and has a good degree. I mean I do not understand why anybody needs these painful trips abroad  these days. THere are so many  nice women from all over the world  already here. They speak english, have jobs etc...

I've found that the RW's here often have some issues; they came here (to America) with less than great motives or they married for citizenship, etc.

That being said, I did date and meet about 6 RW's here and none of them seemed overly materialistic or money hungry.

I agree, though, finding nice ladies here saves a ton of money and effort from going abroad.

[PeterWarrick9]

Peter-

So the obvious questions are:

Are you still unmarried? Did you continue dating in Ukraine, or decided to date at home?

Yes. That's a very common observation for Slavic women. Not just Ukrainian or Russian. I found this trait amongst Czechs, Bulgarian and Slovaks, too. A bit toned down, Latina women.

I am still unmarried. I don't know if I'll ever get married, but I'm only 35, so time will tell The stubbornness and bluntness were a big negative, in my opinion. I don't know if I could stand being married to a stubborn spouse that wouldn't listen or reason with me.

I am Roman Catholic and have been focusing on dating within my religion; I find it easier, to be honest, to date people that have the same culture and religion and shared background.

That doesn't mean AW and RW marriages can't work out, of course. I'm sure some of them can work out great.

[PeterWarrick9]

When I was 30 something I would have never dreamed going to Russia to meet a girl.
There were a zillion American girls that weren't cRaZy who would have loved to date
me (so they did).

When you get to be 40 something or 50 something, the good girls, the sane girls are 
all married to very happy men. Single women in their 40's and 50's who aren't 40 lbs
overweight and who don't take Prozac or Zoloft are rare. I dated Western women
in my 40's and my goal was to find one who was ONLY a little bit fat and ONLY a
little bit cRaZy.

I had no problem finding Single/Divorced girls who were happy to date me, but in Russia
there are seemingly unlimited women who are 40 years old, not married who aren't fat
or cRaZy. You can find cRaZy women in Russia but 80% or more are not.

I thought it was a stereotype that Russian women do not age well? I didn't see many Russian women that were age 40+ that were attractive compared to the younger ones.

One problem that exists is American men tend to idealize and put Russian women on a pedestal. Don't get me wrong, there are a LOT of very impressive RW's, but they have their faults, too.

[2tallbill]

Bill-

A buddy of mine who got divorced less than 3 years ago started dating via match/eharmony. I would
see him with a lot of gorgeous divorcees in the 40s and early 50s who are just stunning. Many of them
are either from OC, South Bay, 1000 Oaks, Agoura Hills and Calabasas. Career-established, with $$ -
most with their own homes, and are very stable personality-wise.

Southern California (Near the coast) might be somewhat of an exception of a place where you can find
semi sane women who aren't 50 lbs overweight. Go to Fresno CA, Bend OR, Deluth MN, Des Moines IA,
Lincoln NE, Houston TX or virtually anywhere else. Go to North Dakota during the oil boom and you
could find 60 year old 300 pound toothless hags, with facial tattoos and a ankle bracelet telling her
parole officer where she was at and she would have a dozen men circling her.

[PeterWarrick9]

Southern California (Near the coast) might be somewhat of an exception of a place where you can find
semi sane women who aren't 50 lbs overweight. Go to Fresno CA, Bend OR, Deluth MN, Des Moines IA,
Lincoln NE, Houston TX or virtually anywhere else. Go to North Dakota during the oil boom and you
could find 60 year old 300 pound toothless hags, with facial tattoos and a ankle bracelet telling her
parole officer where she was at and she would have a dozen men circling her.

There are better AW's in the cities, I'm assuming, then in small town America. 

The average weight of an AW is 166 pounds. If one likes heavyset women, they're set

[Donna_Pedro]

I've found that the RW's here often have some issues; they came here (to America) with less than great motives or they married for citizenship, etc.

That being said, I did date and meet about 6 RW's here and none of them seemed overly materialistic or money hungry.

I agree, though, finding nice ladies here saves a ton of money and effort from going abroad.

Back in 2000s there were not too many women from eastern europe here. Now there are tons more. Girls who were brought here by their parents on work visas andLautenberg Amendment  in 1990s. are in their 30s now.

[PeterWarrick9]

Back in 2000s there were not too many women from eastern europe here. Now there are tons more. Girls who were brought here by their parents on work visas andLautenberg Amendment  in 1990s. are in their 30s now.

What do you think is the best way to meet them?

I've found that Mamba RU has deteriorated into scammer central.

[2tallbill]

I thought it was a stereotype that Russian women do not age well?

One thing about Russia is that you can find all kinds there.

You can find girls who can sing like a choir of Angels and you can find girls who sing like
a donkey with his testicles in a bear trap. You can find girls who know 8 languages and
can do calculus in their heads and you can find girls who have to take off their shoes
to count above 10. You can find a girl who can cook like a gourmet and you can find
girls who set off the smoke alarm when they boil eggs.

Some drink and smoke and have skin like boot leather, others don't and have a fresh
youthful appearance. There are millions and millions of unmarried Russian women
they have every type, age, height, weight, hair color, personality, etc they aren't
all the same.

[Donna_Pedro]

There are better AW's in the cities, I'm assuming, then in small town America. 

The average weight of an AW is 166 pounds. If one likes heavyset women, they're set

If I tell you guys how much I weigh after 17 years here you will run away screaming.  The reasons RW are slim is that they are in a lot of stress and also the weather there. Here I drive everywhere, I do not stress much, I work when I am in a mood, I do not work when I am not in a mood. I love baking cakes! I have shed a lot of eastern europe mentality in regards to appearance.I put on whatever falls off the shelf in my closet in the morning and if I am too fat to fit into any of it, I go buy me a bigger size shorts.  I have a friend who is the same way. At some point she started complaining about her husband not being able to provide for this and that and then she said "Well, but in order to replace him, I would have to go to the gym, keep a diet, put on make up and high heels and go on those boring dates again. I am not up to it.  I would rather curb my wants and stay where I am.

[Trenchcoat]

Peter I do wonder though if you let a good catch get away. You've let time get by and that I believe will turn to your disadvantage as it does anyone. That said at 35 you've still got some good years left at this. I wish I pushed the boat out more on this 10 years back when I was around 30.

I kind of think that there is an advantage of being nearer the girls age at age. They don't so look at you as someone not in their peer group and more relatable. That said in the FSU as you no doubt know women are open more to age gaps there. I just kind of feel you pass over too easily on opportunities that may lead to marriage and a happy relationship.

I think a few differences need to be expected and accomodated for in any relationship. Too many differences can be a mismatch though I think. If your concerned about the religion thing you could try around Lviv in Ukraine. Since it was once a part of Poland a fair amount if the population is Catholic or share it as a joint religion with Orthodoxy.

Poland may be another option, the women are a bit different there to Ukraine and seem to date more within their social/family group. They are also super fit, great svelte figures As you know it's pretty heavy on the Catholic Church there. I'm thinking either internet with them first and/or consider whether you can meet with some of them through the church.

My thought is that where you are is not good hunting ground or you would be sorted already.

[PeterWarrick9]

Peter I do wonder though if you let a good catch get away. You've let time get by and that I believe will turn to your disadvantage as it does anyone. That said at 35 you've still got some good years left at this. I wish I pushed the boat out more on this 10 years back when I was around 30.

I kind of think that there is an advantage of being nearer the girls age at age. They don't so look at you as someone not in their peer group and more relatable. That said in the FSU as you no doubt know women are open more to age gaps there. I just kind of feel you pass over too easily on opportunities that may lead to marriage and a happy relationship.

I think a few differences need to be expected and accomodated for in any relationship. Too many differences can be a mismatch though I think. If your concerned about the religion thing you could try around Lviv in Ukraine. Since it was once a part of Poland a fair amount if the population is Catholic or share it as a joint religion with Orthodoxy.

Poland may be another option, the women are a bit different there to Ukraine and seem to date more within their social/family group. They are also super fit, great svelte figures As you know it's pretty heavy on the Catholic Church there. I'm thinking either internet with them first and/or consider whether you can meet with some of them through the church.

My thought is that where you are is not good hunting ground or you would be sorted already.

Trenchcoat, thanks for the post.

I could have let a good catch get away or we could have married and train wrecked in a few years. I think that would be a 50/50 chance. I wasn't completely smitten with her; she was very stubborn and I would have had to deal with that in a marriage. I don't think there's any chance I could have married her because I lived with my parents until 2014 because I was completely broke.

I could try Poland for a wife but part of the problem of marrying a faithful Catholic is that she would want to have 8 kids and I don't want any

I don't know...I don't really idealize marriage. I see marriage as basically a high risk, coin toss.

[jone]

Fun report, Peter.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

[GQBlues]

If I tell you guys how much I weigh after 17 years here you will run away screaming.  The reasons RW are slim is that they are in a lot of stress and also the weather there. Here I drive everywhere, I do not stress much, I work when I am in a mood, I do not work when I am not in a mood. I love baking cakes! I have shed a lot of eastern europe mentality in regards to appearance.I put on whatever falls off the shelf in my closet in the morning and if I am too fat to fit into any of it, I go buy me a bigger size shorts.  I have a friend who is the same way. At some point she started complaining about her husband not being able to provide for this and that and then she said "Well, but in order to replace him, I would have to go to the gym, keep a diet, put on make up and high heels and go on those boring dates again. I am not up to it.  I would rather curb my wants and stay where I am.

Too funny! 

Methinks the reason why women are fat are equal to a) what they eat, and b) amount of sleep they get (based on a study I read before). I still remember the first time my wife told me when she was still in Russia that 11 hours is the perfect amount of sleep for her ( ). She isn't alone in that sentiment either. I doubt many of those devushkas ever saw the sunrise until they were in their late 30s / early 40s...

As for the US, fat AWs are 'usually' either Latinas or blacks. Of course middle-America is whole other story, but then again, it's par for the course too as I doubt the middle-America men don six-packers either.

Lectin-rich foods, inactivity and let's face it - lack of social challenge (pressure) to look your best is a primer too.

[Donna_Pedro]

Trenchcoat, thanks for the post.

I could have let a good catch get away or we could have married and train wrecked in a few years. I think that would be a 50/50 chance. I wasn't completely smitten with her; she was very stubborn and I would have had to deal with that in a marriage. I don't think there's any chance I could have married her because I lived with my parents until 2014 because I was completely broke.

Not being broke is important. About being stubborn and having to deal with it - you WILL have to deal with something for sure. My husbvand had to fight my stubborn  personality  for over a decade before I fell ill in 2014 and decided that he could be the head of the family. Now he is complaining. He loved the stubborn biatch after all, and can not help but miss her now.

[Trenchcoat]

I could try Poland for a wife but part of the problem of marrying a faithful Catholic is that she would want to have 8 kids and I don't want any

I don't know...I don't really idealize marriage. I see marriage as basically a high risk, coin toss.

Seems strange you don't idealize Marriage, I kind of thought you being religious would sway you that way. I'm Non-religious, but on the fence on the whole Marriage matter. I think it has problems and can lead to people feeling trapped and hence actually do in good relationships, people can get stale when locked in a marriage, then there are the divorce concerns. Still though I kind of feel attraction to the idea and not quite sure why, just what I've been brought up with I think.

I find it strange you don't want children also. Most men seem to want kids I find, how come you don't?

[GQBlues]

What do you think is the best way to meet them?

I've found that Mamba RU has deteriorated into scammer central.

Not necessarily a specific ethnicity, but in general, go out of the house I would think? I used to think church was a great place to meet women until I dated what I think is the craziest woman alive.

[PeterWarrick9]

Seems strange you don't idealize Marriage, I kind of thought you being religious would sway you that way. I'm Non-religious, but on the fence on the whole Marriage matter. I think it has problems and can lead to people feeling trapped and hence actually do in good relationships, people can get stale when locked in a marriage, then there are the divorce concerns. Still though I kind of feel attraction to the idea and not quite sure why, just what I've been brought up with I think.

I find it strange you don't want children also. Most men seem to want kids I find, how come you don't?

In the Christian tradition, celibacy is seen as a better vocation than marriage, actually.

I think marriage has its pros and cons, just like most things do. How old are you and are you taking any trips lately?

I don't want children because they're a life long expense and anything can happen. I'm a bit biased because I had an older brother who was deeply disturbed and died last year from an opioid overdose. I don't think parenting is easy. 

[Trenchcoat]

In the Christian tradition, celibacy is seen as a better vocation than marriage, actually.

I think marriage has its pros and cons, just like most things do. How old are you and are you taking any trips lately?

I don't want children because they're a life long expense and anything can happen. I'm a bit biased because I had an older brother who was deeply disturbed and died last year from an opioid overdose. I don't think parenting is easy.

I don't think anything in life is easy, lol. Well I'm 40, I did a trip to Krakow & Lviv this year over the course of a couple of weeks. Then more recently I did a weekend in Minsk, Belarus. In the previous year I went to Kiev & Moscow. Year before that to Kiev, Odessa & Nicolaiev. It's been a fun an interesting journey so far for the most part. Like you say getting my head around FSW stubborness & character, well that's been a challenge. Time is starting to get on for me but I'm hopeful of cracking it in 2019.

[PeterWarrick9]

I don't think anything in life is easy, lol. Well I'm 40, I did a trip to Krakow & Lviv this year over the course of a couple of weeks. Then more recently I did a weekend in Minsk, Belarus. In the previous year I went to Kiev & Moscow. Year before that to Kiev, Odessa & Nicolaiev. It's been a fun an interesting journey so far for the most part. Like you say getting my head around FSW stubborness & character, well that's been a challenge. Time is starting to get on for me but I'm hopeful of cracking it in 2019.

How were your trips? Did you meet any good prospects? Have you been married before?

[Trenchcoat]

How were your trips? Did you meet any good prospects? Have you been married before?

Never been married before. The trips were good, the women were nice & friendly, attractive females and way more feminine than most UK girls. One girl I thought could be the one but she had wants and I just wanted someone to enjoy a relationship with doing things. I could have probably handled the situation better but through inexperience of dealing with that type of girl with wants let things slide the wrong way. The other girls tended to not be right to be in a relationship with as it became more meet up & enjoy each others company basis once we met. All in all it has certainly been a learning curve with some moments I was not sure what the hell was going on, lol.