The Netflix Documentary Love Me

[Miquel Westano]

The Love Me show was an amazing insight into the other side of this process.  Most of those guys were doomed to failure from the start.  They were mostly out of their league, out of their comfort zone, relying on someone to do the work for them, expecting to buy a bride, thinking they were the saviors of poor ignorant women and totally unaware of how to read the interest of the ladies they were meeting.  I have a better chemistry with women I see in grocery store checkout lines than these guys do with their "dates".

The Aussie was a shining example of a man hell bent on being "scammed".  I really don't think he was scammed, but it fits the general definition.  In my opinion he assumed he was buying a woman who somehow owed him, and got what he deserved.  Seller can't sell without buyers and scammers can't scam without willing marks.  All cons work on greed or lust.  Leave the lust at home and the money will go back home with you.

Anyone with Netflix please watch and comment on Love Me and maybe we can get a thread going on it.  There are lots of real world experienced guys here and I would love to hear from them.  I also would love the input of the women who have been involved or know of the dating world to comment on that show.  In fact, I am going to copy and paste this into a thread.  Hopefully I will hear from some vets.

[Slumba]

There are two films on Netflix that are the same title.  I think you are takling about the one directed by John Narducci.

Oddly, the other one, is about a man dragged to a party in Ukraine , who is engaged to be married - and he meets a Ukrainian girl.

[Boethius]

Interview with the director.

http://www.latino-review.com/news/exclusive-interview-with-director-jonathon-narducci-for-love-me-documentary
 
Edited to add a second interview -
 
http://scenecreek.com/interviews/jonathan-narducci-talks-about-love-me/

[Miquel Westano]

There are two films on Netflix that are the same title.  I think you are takling about the one directed by John Narducci.

Oddly, the other one, is about a man dragged to a party in Ukraine , who is engaged to be married - and he meets a Ukrainian girl.

You are right.  I did not know about the one with the party. 

I don't know why I feel like the girls get a bad rap since I have never been there.  But it seems like a lot of the guys bring this on themselves by trying to basically buy a girl, then acting like she owes him something for the money he spent.

Buying a girl here dinner makes some guys think he is entitled to sex.  Over there it seems like the guys think they are entitled to sex, a maid, a cook, a gardener and a grocery shopper all for 10-20K.  I am not excusing girls who scam, but some of these guys are despicable and just hard to feel sorry for.

When they get burned they all complain about the money.  They never talk about losing the love, the woman or the companionship.  If it is all money to them, why don't they see it is all money to the girls?

 

[Boethius]

Also from an interview with John Narducci -

Why do you think these relationships were often unsuccessful, or hard to find the successful ones?

It was hugely difficult to find relationships that worked out. It’s really based on where society is, and where these guys were in their mindset. They’re marketed to be entitled to these women because they’re American, there’s an American entitlement that’s just with all of them, even the South African/Australian. He is beyond entitled. The mindset of a guy going over there is completely off-kilter with what it actually needs to be. They don’t have any perspective and beyond that its ultimately online dating, and online dating, in my opinion, is a really bad way to meet somebody. Because what is happening is we have all of these things to keep us more connected but people are using them in ways to become less connected in actuality. They’re text messaging instead of talking and that’s just the beginning, now they’re going in to a bar and they can swipe right or left – they don’t need to go up to a person and find that common ground and humanity with that person to be able to connect with them. So,
they’re living in a delusional thing that was sold to them, this idea that these women are different to women in America because women in American are emancipated, and that’s true, but its not like the women in the Ukraine don’t want what other women want, women want to be respected and treated equally that’s a fundamental value that everyone should respect and if you don’t then, [expletive removed], that was why those guys weren’t successful.

http://www.voyagedetudes.com/the-world-according-to/jonathon-narducci-interview-by-jade-angeles-fitton/

[Slumba]

You are right.  I did not know about the one with the party. 

I don't know why I feel like the girls get a bad rap since I have never been there.  But it seems like a lot of the guys bring this on themselves by trying to basically buy a girl, then acting like she owes him something for the money he spent.

Buying a girl here dinner makes some guys think he is entitled to sex.  Over there it seems like the guys think they are entitled to sex, a maid, a cook, a gardener and a grocery shopper all for 10-20K.  I am not excusing girls who scam, but some of these guys are despicable and just hard to feel sorry for.

I just watched the film in question.  What section of the movie, supports what you wrote?  And if you haven't been there, why are you projecting and making absolute statements?

[Miquel Westano]

I just watched the film in question.  What section of the movie, supports what you wrote?  And if you haven't been there, why are you projecting and making absolute statements?

Interesting.

First if I say I feel like something seems a certain way, I don't really think it is an absolute statement. 

Second, I am a pretty respectful guy, but I don't think I need to justify what I say to you or anyone else.  Whether I have been there or not, really doesn't affect my right to an opinion. 

Third what supports my opinion is the way these guys, especially the Aussie never seem to ask the girls if they are feeling the same way or have the same expectations.  They seem to move ahead with feelings of supposed love before they know the woman at all and then when asked later, they act like they were scammed and all they can support that with is spewing out how much money they spent.  They never seem bothered by the loss of love, just the loss of money.

Now that being said, I asked for input and thoughts about how I saw it.  I didn't ask for judgmental hostility or interrogation.  If you don't like my opinion that's fine.  But don't call me out to justify it.  I have no interest in forum feuds, flame wars or internet arguments.  You see it different than me?  Fine.  You are entitled to your opinion, but I am entitled to mine as well.

[HiTech]

I just watched the film tonight.

There were many places I recognized and have been.

It is the first documentary on the issue that was a fair portrayal of the industry, all though not extremely comprehensive.

It also reminded me how lucky I have been in this endevor.

HiTech

[Miquel Westano]

I just watched the film tonight.

There were many places I recognized and have been.

It is the first documentary on the issue that was a fair portrayal of the industry, all though not extremely comprehensive.

It also reminded me how lucky I have been in this endevor.

HiTech

I think some people may have thought I was criticizing every man who went over in search of a bride.  I wasn't at all.  Rather just the ones thinking they were guaranteed success because they spent money. 

I think a lot of real good sincere men go and have success and meet good and sincere women.  I have tremendous respect for the guys who go, work hard and stick with it. 

I believe it takes a special person to have that kind of faith and courage and they deserve the rewards to match the effort they put out.  With these women it sure seems like it does.  I believe the tougher conditions in Eastern Europe build stronger character.  Those women have more to deal with than women in America do.  Toss in those hot looks and that's a win-win situation for the people with the guts to see it through.

[Boethius]

I believe the tougher conditions in Eastern Europe build stronger character.  Those women have more to deal with than women in America do. 

Having lived there, I disagree with this.  I read this to my husband.  He grew up there.  He disagrees vehemently.

[Miquel Westano]

Having lived there, I disagree with this.  I read this to my husband.  He grew up there.  He disagrees vehemently.

I am sure you know more than me.  It was just my opinion.  I look at it like the people who grew up here during the depression and WWII.  They seemed more focused on long term goals and less concerned with instant gratification. 

I look around here in Missouri and all I see are people living day to day, no savings, no goals and happy as a pig in slop if their phone and internet work.  It just seems like the easier life gets here the less character people have. 

But I believe you would know more about life over there than I would.  All I get is what I read on forums and what I get from the news.

So do you think I am overestimating the toughness and practicality of the women where you are from, underestimating the same in American women or just that I am attributing the differences to the wrong reasons?

It just seems to me the women from Eastern European countries are far more practical and mature.  But again I have never actually been there.

[Boethius]

I am not from Ukraine.  My husband is.  But, I am ethnically Ukrainian, speak the language, and lived there.


My husband's view is the population was destroyed by Bolshevism in almost all respects.  He says he was mistaken in believing they would have rebounded by now, with a generation that has grown up in a post Soviet society.


Some women are mature, some are not.  Life there is tougher, no doubt about it.  But I don't think it makes them any more mature, nor necessarily more practical.  I think those are innate qualities.

[Miquel Westano]

I am not from Ukraine.  My husband is.  But, I am ethnically Ukrainian, speak the language, and lived there.


My husband's view is the population was destroyed by Bolshevism in almost all respects.  He says he was mistaken in believing they would have rebounded by now, with a generation that has grown up in a post Soviet society.


Some women are mature, some are not.  Life there is tougher, no doubt about it.  But I don't think it makes them any more mature, nor necessarily more practical.  I think those are innate qualities.

I appreciate the reply.  That is the reason I am here.  At 60 I have decided I need to learn a lot more about the world.  The best way I can think of to learn is to talk to and interact with people who have actually seen what I have not.

[Boethius]

The same archetypes exist world over. 

[Faux Pas]

I appreciate the reply.  That is the reason I am here.  At 60 I have decided I need to learn a lot more about the world.  The best way I can think of to learn is to talk to and interact with people who have actually seen what I have not.

Unfortunately, you won't learn the world here but, a small segment of it, if you pay attention. The movie only had a very, very small sample size of the guys that go east. Although it was a "decent" representation. This forum has a larger one but still a very small sample size as well. There are all kinds of men that go East and yes, many are fantasy fueled like the gubmint worker/videogamer and the Aussie.

The film was well done. I saw it as more of a marketing piece for ADATE and somewhat EMs. Overall, it's still Hollywood and don't believe everything you saw. However there was something there to glean. The guys that actually got married and by most accounts found sincere women, worked on the relationship. One on his 6th trip/tour and one on his first. A bit of advice if you are considering going East to look for a woman; Forget the fantasy, work on a relationship and remember there are no shortcuts. You can get burned or find great success, or something in between, just like home. Boy meets girl has no borders

[Slumba]

Miquel, I apologize for being a bit strident.

One thing to note, at least that I noted, is that the guys with the most success, actually "work" on themselves. 

They don't allow themselves to become stagnant, like the guy with the space pistols (the government employee?) .

They are working and active - like the guy from NC who has a gym machine in his basement and works out on it. 

The space pistols guy, despite knowing that he might have this beautiful woman, did nothing to show that he was serious about her, in terms of actions - he didn't  exercise, try to learn Russian (from what I can tell) or do anything else.  She was probably still a scammer, but, his passivity is part of what allowed him to be scammed.

[Boethius]

The guy who worked out ended up with an AW of his age.

[Miquel Westano]

Unfortunately, you won't learn the world here but, a small segment of it, if you pay attention. The movie only had a very, very small sample size of the guys that go east. Although it was a "decent" representation. This forum has a larger one but still a very small sample size as well. There are all kinds of men that go East and yes, many are fantasy fueled like the gubmint worker/videogamer and the Aussie.

The film was well done. I saw it as more of a marketing piece for ADATE and somewhat EMs. Overall, it's still Hollywood and don't believe everything you saw. However there was something there to glean. The guys that actually got married and by most accounts found sincere women, worked on the relationship. One on his 6th trip/tour and one on his first. A bit of advice if you are considering going East to look for a woman; Forget the fantasy, work on a relationship and remember there are no shortcuts. You can get burned or find great success, or something in between, just like home. Boy meets girl has no borders

I agree 100%.  I am trying to understand a world I most likely will never really experience.  Just a quick recap, I am married with children and grand children.  I have been married only once and for 35 years.  I started trying to learn about Ukraine due to the political situation with Russia and that led me to the websites of people who sought romance abroad.

I was completely in awe of these men.  Even the guys like the Aussie and the video gamer have a lot of courage.  They just were not very realistic.  I am in no way putting down or insulting any man or woman who has the courage to lay it all out and try for happiness.  As a guy who has not done it, my comments may be way off base.  If so I apologize in advance.  They are just attempts to learn as much as I can.  I am trying to learn Russian, which has convinced me I have some sort of learning disability.

[Miquel Westano]

Miquel, I apologize for being a bit strident.

One thing to note, at least that I noted, is that the guys with the most success, actually "work" on themselves. 

They don't allow themselves to become stagnant, like the guy with the space pistols (the government employee?) .

They are working and active - like the guy from NC who has a gym machine in his basement and works out on it. 

The space pistols guy, despite knowing that he might have this beautiful woman, did nothing to show that he was serious about her, in terms of actions - he didn't  exercise, try to learn Russian (from what I can tell) or do anything else.  She was probably still a scammer, but, his passivity is part of what allowed him to be scammed.

Thanks for understanding I was not trying to be a jerk and I am sorry if my reply was a bit over reactive as well. 

I enjoy this board and agree with your comments.  The hardest workers in any pursuit will always get the best results.  And the guys who get a chance need to take it if they want to succeed.  I think that is the biggest reason the success rate is not higher.  Many men just talk themselves out of even trying.  But that 5% or what ever the actual number is, sure can hit the jackpot if they are willing to put in the effort.

[Boethius]

I was completely in awe of these men. 

Why?  The attitude toward women there is very different.  For men, finding a wife there is like shooting fish in a barrell.  The FSUW are the brave ones.

[Slumba]

The guy who worked out ended up with an AW of his age.

That is true (although the woman seemed a little younger, and, he dated her before going to Ukraine); however, he was also (apparently) the only one who figured out that most of the women attending the social, were not serious - you might recall  that he asked the translators about that. 

So he had a good amount of social awareness, to see what the other guys did not.

At the same time, his (my guess- strict) Southern Baptist upbringing handicapped his interactions with FSUW, and I don't think he drank much if at all ; so his inability to deal with the culture shock (with strict Southern Baptists, only "bad girls" drink, smoke, or dance) made him uncomfortable and not able to be interested in any of the women there.

[Faux Pas]

I agree 100%.  I am trying to understand a world I most likely will never really experience.  Just a quick recap, I am married with children and grand children.  I have been married only once and for 35 years.  I started trying to learn about Ukraine due to the political situation with Russia and that led me to the websites of people who sought romance abroad.

My bad, I had forgotten your background

I was completely in awe of these men.  Even the guys like the Aussie and the video gamer have a lot of courage.

Ah, no. It doesn't take any courage to fork money out to a website with the idea that you can buy a woman which is what both of those two guys were doing. There's an idea on the forums that getting in a plane and flying over is courageous, it isn't. It's just a flight like other flights with a longer destination. True, it's more than not flying over but that's about it. The real courage is meeting women and knowing and treating them like real people and women at home rather than a traded commodity from some 3rd world country. It takes more courage to find someone with possibilities of a relationship and then, building a relationship.

They just were not very realistic.  I am in no way putting down or insulting any man or woman who has the courage to lay it all out and try for happiness.  As a guy who has not done it, my comments may be way off base.  If so I apologize in advance.  They are just attempts to learn as much as I can.  I am trying to learn Russian, which has convinced me I have some sort of learning disability.

They weren't laying it on the line. They were a couple of guys with some expendable cash and an entitlement attitude. Both extremely gullible. I actually felt a little sorry for the Aussie but, he did get his just rewards. These women are real people, like your wife of 35 years and your daughters (if you have any)

[Miquel Westano]

Why?  The attitude toward women there is very different.  For men, finding a wife there is like shooting fish in a barrell.  The FSUW are the brave ones.

I think both are brave.  One to travel half way around the world taking a chance on finding love and the other to do the same thing after they meet taking a chance the love won't fade.  Both are making a decision that requires a lot of courage in my book. 

[Miquel Westano]

My bad, I had forgotten your background
 

Ah, no. It doesn't take any courage to fork money out to a website with the idea that you can buy a woman which is what both of those two guys were doing. There's an idea on the forums that getting in a plane and flying over is courageous, it isn't. It's just a flight like other flights with a longer destination. True, it's more than not flying over but that's about it. The real courage is meeting women and knowing and treating them like real people and women at home rather than a traded commodity from some 3rd world country. It takes more courage to find someone with possibilities of a relationship and then, building a relationship.

They weren't laying it on the line. They were a couple of guys with some expendable cash and an entitlement attitude. Both extremely gullible. I actually felt a little sorry for the Aussie but, he did get his just rewards. These women are real people, like your wife of 35 years and your daughters (if you have any)

Two living daughters.  One passed in '06 after a long illness.  One Granddaughter. 

On the laying it the line, I meant emotionally, not financially.   But you are right.  I forget the power of agencies over some men's minds.  They do convince them they will be rock stars in the FSU countries just because they are average Americans.  I guess these guys want to believe it and the agencies just keep telling them that until they do. 

I do agree these women are real and some of these guys forget that.  Some guys act like they are shopping instead of dating.   

[Boethius]

I think both are brave.  One to travel half way around the world taking a chance on finding love and the other to do the same thing after they meet taking a chance the love won't fade.  Both are making a decision that requires a lot of courage in my book.

First, sorry for the loss of your daughter.  I cannot think of anything more painful than losing a child.




If you believe taking a chance on finding love is brave, then virtually everyone, world over, who is not in an arranged marriage, is brave.  Most people world over who marry take the chance that love won't fade.