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Author Topic: Russian Icons  (Read 11792 times)

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Offline KenInUtah

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Russian Icons
« on: November 26, 2016, 06:01:05 PM »
Hi all,

Maybe someone can help me here.  My wife mentioned once a while back that she wanted an "Icon" to hang on the wall like she had back in Moscow.  Now, I am familiar with the Crucified Christ but I know thats not what she is thinking about.  She is Russian Orthodox and I've looked online but I'm not sure.  Can anyone help clarify what I should look for (pics help) as I want to get her this for Christmas.

Offline alex330

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2016, 06:09:35 PM »
Boe or Mendy would be the most knowledgeable in this area. I think we picked one up at the little gift shop in the local Orthodox church here. Basically a little cross with different images in each corner.


http://www.stgeorgeslc.org/ as you are in UT I think?

Offline KenInUtah

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2016, 06:16:04 PM »
Thanks Alex.  I've thought of that but wondered which Icon is correct.  Do you have a pic of the one you got?

Offline alex330

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2016, 06:33:30 PM »
It looks just like one of the ones cab drivers have in the FSU. A small cross with different pictures on it. I would see if Boe chimes in, she will know more and maybe there is one more appropriate for the holidays.


The one we have looks like this, but has different images.








Offline KenInUtah

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 06:45:20 PM »
Thanks so much!  I will see if Boe checks in but this helps a lot

Offline alex330

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2016, 06:48:19 PM »
This is the exact one we have, but the bottom image is an angel on ours.



Offline KenInUtah

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 06:57:44 PM »
I saw that one on Amazon!

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2016, 06:59:26 PM »

An 1887 marriage gift to my great grandmother Elisaveta (dating presumably from 1840-1850), depicting "Our Lady of Kazan" (painted wood in silver frame, 12cm x 16 cm) and still hanging over my bed nowadays ;).
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline KenInUtah

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2016, 07:06:34 PM »
Thanks Sandro.  Thats very different than what Alex pictured though.  What am I misunderstanding?

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 07:12:45 PM »
Something else in my possession for a long time from the same family origin:


A foldable tryptich (painted leather in silver frame, 7.5 cm x 21.5cm) with:

- Left: 8 Saints, top inscriptions mentioning S. Nikolai (St. Nicholas), S. Vasili (St. Basil), S. Ioans (St. John), S. Aleksandr (St. Alexander)
- Center: Virgin Mary and Child
- Right: Nativity Scene, from left Virgin Mary, Child, St. Joseph and angels

These were 'portable' icons that people would carry along when travelling, not to be temporarily separated from their objects of faith.

Milan's "Duomo"

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2016, 07:14:58 PM »
Thanks Sandro.  Thats very different than what Alex pictured though.  What am I isunderstanding?
The difference is in the age of the artifacts, mine are from Imperial Russia ;), not from contemporary or Soviet times.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 07:16:55 PM by SANDRO43 »
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2016, 07:23:43 PM »
Apart from the tryptich I showed (which would only be opened away from home), traditional Russian icons usually depicted only one subject at a time, be it Christ, Mary & child or some saint.

Those multiple icons are a more recent, cheap commercial development IMHO.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 07:37:15 PM by SANDRO43 »
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline ML

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2016, 09:57:11 PM »
One of the FSU gals I dated a few times was an artist.

For several days, I understood her to say that she painted 'acorns.'

Only later did I discover it was 'icons.'
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline BillyB

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2016, 11:20:31 PM »
One of the FSU gals I dated a few times was an artist.


I dated a girl in Kiev twice who was an artist. She'd work days and her stuff were worth hundreds. She was looking for a man who would help her open her own art gallery. I wonder if she ever got that thing opened.

Hey Ken! Google "Russian Icon" and look at the images. Madonna and Child, St Nicholas, St George, St Michael are some you'll see.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline alex330

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 11:40:40 PM »
I dated a girl in Kiev twice who was an artist. She'd work days and her stuff were worth hundreds. She was looking for a man who would help her open her own art gallery. I wonder if she ever got that thing opened.


Was her name Luba?

Offline Boethius

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2016, 04:43:47 AM »
The traditional family icon is the first one Sandro posted from his family.  Translated, it is "Kazan Mother of God" or "Our Lady of Kazan", depicting Mary and an infant baby Jesus. 

Google "Kazan Mother of God" and you will see the image of this icon.  The icon itself stays the same, only the background changes.

You can find similar depictions from different areas, but this is traditional because of the story behind it.

You can buy icons online, but assume that anything being sold as an original (if an antique) is fake, so only part with the money you would were it fake.  Original icons cannot be removed from any of the former FSU republics.  I'm not suggesting they aren't at times smuggled out, but the creation of fake icons using old pieces of wood was big business in the USSR as far back as the 1970's, and that's not only unchanged, but has moved to the West.  If you love it, buy it, just don't assume it is really a 17th/18th/19th century original.  Otherwise, you can find the Mother of God icon, as a non antique, fairly easily.  We have them, not antiques, just painted on wood and sold at our church.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 08:22:11 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Gator

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2016, 08:30:07 AM »


You can buy icons online, but assume that anything being sold as an original (if an antique) is fake, so only part with the money you would were it fake.  Original icons cannot be removed from any of the former FSU republics.  I'm not suggesting they aren't at times smuggled out, but the creation of fake icons using old pieces of wood was big business in the USSR as far back as the 1970's, and that's not only unchanged, but has moved to the West.  If you love it, buy it, just don't assume it is really a 17th/18th/19th century original.  Otherwise, you can find the Mother of God icon, as a non antique, fairly easily.  We have them, not antiques, just painted on wood and sold at our church.

Great advice!  I see icons frequently sold at an antiques auction in St. Petersburg, Florida.  I know the reputable auctioneer well, and he obtains most of hid consignments locally.  A number of Russians immigrated to the US before the 1917 revolution, and I suppose they were able to bring with them actual antiques (and anything new they brought is now 100 years old).  Their silver, icons, and enamelware eventually make it to the market. 

To illustrate Boethius's point look at these two icons similar to Sandro's antique ancestral icon with a chased silver oklad (revetment), all three sold in 2016:



Sold for $2400 + seller's commission (18%)

In contrast, each of the following two sold  for $125 + seller's commission











The first I assume is an authentic antique in excellent condition, thus desired by collectors.  It featured the maker's mark in three locations:

http://p2.liveauctioneers.com/196/85877/44175838_5_l.jpg

NBow compare the first with this silver and enameled  icon from 1896-1905 (based on hallmarks



It sold in 2007 for $13,000 = Seller's commission

Offline Gator

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2016, 08:46:13 AM »
My wife and I purchased this painted icon from the same auctioneer.  The wood did not seem old nor was it artificially aged.  I imagine it is simply a well done copy of an antique icon, as the price was under $500.  My wife liked the design, the depicted story  and vivid colors.  She placed it in secluded area of our home and prays before it frequently.  She did not want it displayed in an area where we would walk past it everyday as if it were prized art to be gawked at.     


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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2016, 08:53:50 AM »
We find some good bargains at this auction house.  This is a 20-piece set of Matryoshka dolls finely painted in a Cinderella theme, from 12"H to 5/16"H.  Price was only $200. 





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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2016, 09:11:09 AM »
Russian lacquer boxes too.





Offline KenInUtah

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2016, 09:52:27 AM »
Thanks all!  Boethius, a special thanks to you (and Alex for telling me to watch for your response).  That was what I really needed, a NAME to look for.  There are pages of different stuff on Amazon and I wanted to get the right thing.  You guys are awesome (as usual).  I also asked for help from one of her friends in Moscow via VK so I now thing I will get the right thing!

Offline KenInUtah

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2016, 10:31:27 AM »
OK guys, between the help y'all gave me and her friend in Moscow, this was the choice.

Offline BillyB

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Re: Russian Icons
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2016, 01:59:53 PM »
OK guys, between the help y'all gave me and her friend in Moscow, this was the choice.

I like it.


Was her name Luba?

Can't remember her name. Didn't want to after learning she needed a man for her goals of being an art gallery owner without mentioning how she'd take care of a man. She lived in Kiev, had long light brown hair. Average height for a woman, slim and larger than average breasts. Ring a bell?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

 

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