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Author Topic: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces  (Read 40378 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Quote

“I think we should absolutely consider providing lethal aid,” said Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. “And it ought to be in the context of our NATO allies because [Russian President Vladimir] Putin’s ultimate objective is to fracture NATO.”


Dempsey’s comments came in response to a question from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a strong proponent of arming Ukrainian forces, as Dempsey and Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter appeared before the Senate Armed Services Committee to defend President Obama’s proposal for military spending in fiscal 2016.


Although he stopped short of saying he would definitely support providing weapons to the Ukrainian military, it was the first time that Dempsey publicly backed consideration of such a move. His remarks come as the Obama administration intensifies its policy deliberations about possible new steps to aid Ukraine.




Read between the lines


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/top-us-general-says-it-is-time-to-consider-arming-ukrainian-forces/2015/03/03/aa68dade-c1d6-11e4-ad5c-3b8ce89f1b89_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2015, 03:34:44 PM »
I don't know about this, Muzh. Maybe you see something here that I don't but when I read the article this a.m. with my coffee all I saw was more rhetoric.

Not to disparage the General but I thought the Obama administration has already stated on several occasions that they were "considering" sending weapons to Ukraine.

The General actually takes it down a noch by stating “I think we should absolutely consider providing lethal aid,” instead of stopping
"short of saying he would definitely support providing weapons to the Ukrainian military".

Be more like it if he came out with some solid support instead of more considering.

It's gotten to the point with me that I'll believe it when/if I see it. Until then I think the administration will continue to pay lip service and do nothing.

Two years. That's the timeline for real (military) support for Ukraine unless something drastically changes.

Brass
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"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

lordtiberius

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 04:17:37 PM »
Agree.

More of the same hot water from the DC people.

Offline calmissile

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 04:49:55 PM »
I don't know about this, Muzh. Maybe you see something here that I don't but when I read the article this a.m. with my coffee all I saw was more rhetoric.

Not to disparage the General but I thought the Obama administration has already stated on several occasions that they were "considering" sending weapons to Ukraine.

The General actually takes it down a noch by stating “I think we should absolutely consider providing lethal aid,” instead of stopping
"short of saying he would definitely support providing weapons to the Ukrainian military".

Be more like it if he came out with some solid support instead of more considering.

It's gotten to the point with me that I'll believe it when/if I see it. Until then I think the administration will continue to pay lip service and do nothing.

Two years. That's the timeline for real (military) support for Ukraine unless something drastically changes.

Brass

I think your a little more pessimistic than I am.  The general's comments are more serious than earlier and it is another military leader adding to the long list of politicians and military leaders that want to arm Ukraine.  It seems only our community organizer is holding up the implementation.  He is the most stubborn jackass I can remember in the White House in my lifetime.  It seems the more people that recommend a specific policy, the more he digs his heels in and refuses to follow the advice of experts.
 
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 04:57:05 PM »
I think your a little more pessimistic than I am.  The general's comments are more serious than earlier and it is another military leader adding to the long list of politicians and military leaders that want to arm Ukraine.  It seems only our community organizer is holding up the implementation.  He is the most stubborn jackass I can remember in the White House in my lifetime.  It seems the more people that recommend a specific policy, the more he digs his heels in and refuses to follow the advice of experts.

Believe me when I post I hope to gawd I'm wrong. It would make my day to be wrong in this instance.

It really seems to be that way, doesn't it? I've never seen a President more determined to make the wrong decisions in my adult life. It's almost as if he's going out of his way to create discord through inaction or pursuing the wrong policies. I just don't get it.

Brass
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 05:01:43 PM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline ML

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 05:36:36 PM »
I am all for helping Ukraine, but . . . I know the American public is loath to get involved in yet another conflict in some far-off place.

I am very much against most of what Obama does regarding many topics, but I think he is just following what he believes to be the will of the USA public in this case.  And he is likely correct.

And we all know, that once we start involvement, the amount and type of involvement will escalate.  When our boys start coming home in body bags again . . . all he!! will break loose in USA.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline JayH

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 05:52:27 PM »
ML--if there is ever a conflict where frontline US troops would not be required--this would have to be it.  I have always thought  that sending US ground troops would not happen here.
Sure-- send trainers ,teachers,instructors ,supervisors ,logistical support etc and get updated hardware in the Ukrainians hands.
Combine that with using drones and minimal manned aircraft-- potential US loss of life could be minimised.
If  ground troops are needed-- the Polish army has over 20,000 men on standby ,with very large numbers that could be drawn on.They also have up to date NATO training.
I note previously- a US General commented that it would not be a good idea to try and co-ordinate 25 nations here and best to confine the nations directly involved/ That of course-- does not prevent others contributing in some way/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 06:03:51 PM »
The Pentagon will send in Ukraine several hundred of its military


It is expected that they will teach Ukrainian army. Reuters Pentagon allegedly sends its military in Ukraine. The Pentagon is ready to send in Western Ukraine on a rotational basis several groups of military trainers - about 300 people each. This writes Defense News . According to the newspaper, they are sent for training Ukrainian military. Publication reached this conclusion by analyzing the documents posted on the website of government procurement in late February.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/pentagon-vidpravit-v-ukrayinu-dekilka-soten-svoyih-viyskovih-defense-news-413244.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

lordtiberius

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 06:23:39 PM »
Giving men weapons to defend themselves isn't the same as destroying the 4th largest Army.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 07:42:09 PM »
I am all for helping Ukraine, but . . . I know the American public is loath to get involved in yet another conflict in some far-off place.

I am very much against most of what Obama does regarding many topics, but I think he is just following what he believes to be the will of the USA public in this case.  And he is likely correct.

And we all know, that once we start involvement, the amount and type of involvement will escalate.  When our boys start coming home in body bags again . . . all he!! will break loose in USA.


well said....


non-citizen's comments/demands aren't very important as it pertains to our country's involvement.


ML--if there is ever a conflict where frontline US troops would not be required--this would have to be it.  I have always thought  that sending US ground troops would not happen here.
Sure-- send trainers ,teachers,instructors ,supervisors ,logistical support etc and get updated hardware in the Ukrainians hands.
Combine that with using drones and minimal manned aircraft-- potential US loss of life could be minimised.
If  ground troops are needed-- the Polish army has over 20,000 men on standby ,with very large numbers that could be drawn on.They also have up to date NATO training.
I note previously- a US General commented that it would not be a good idea to try and co-ordinate 25 nations here and best to confine the nations directly involved/ That of course-- does not prevent others contributing in some way/


sure thing General Jayh...not your kids/friends going to fight/lose their lives....easy for you to commend us getting involved from your electric chair/remote control.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

lordtiberius

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 07:56:04 PM »
sure thing General Jayh...not your kids/friends going to fight/lose their lives....easy for you to commend us getting involved from your electric chair/remote control.

Jay H is not a warmonger.  Jay H has been in Ukraine more than you or I have and he would like for nothing more for when Ukrainians and Russians to get along the way they used to before Putin invaded Ukraine.  He can tell you when Russians traveled to Ukraine in their own cars to vacation to see their relatives not to kill them.  To call Jay H a war monger is inaccurate and beneath a man who fashions himself as a seer and speaker of the truth.

Offline AC

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 08:26:18 PM »
Believe me when I post I hope to gawd I'm wrong. It would make my day to be wrong in this instance.

It really seems to be that way, doesn't it? I've never seen a President more determined to make the wrong decisions in my adult life. It's almost as if he's going out of his way to create discord through inaction or pursuing the wrong policies. I just don't get it.

Brass

I've said it before.  He's a Marxist-Muslim implant.  Who or what would be the most treacherous person to take down the USA?  None other than a traitorous-treacherous President.  Just look at the deal he's trying to make with the Iranians, who are and have been for three plus decades the largest sponsors of terrorism in the World. 

He can do plenty of drone strikes and continue to give the NSA more and more power to appease the military-industrial complex, yet under his leadership it's only a way to ruin our country further.  Let's see if our Judges will stop his latest amnesty, since our Congressional members are too weak.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368008/
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 08:29:49 PM by AC »

Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 08:33:22 PM »
Jay H is not a warmonger.  Jay H has been in Ukraine more than you or I have and he would like for nothing more for when Ukrainians and Russians to get along the way they used to before Putin invaded Ukraine.  He can tell you when Russians traveled to Ukraine in their own cars to vacation to see their relatives not to kill them.  To call Jay H a war monger is inaccurate and beneath a man who fashions himself as a seer and speaker of the truth.


How many years Jayh has been sniffing around Ukraine is not important...as a non-citizen he is currently telling our country that we need to get involved with our military and acting like it will not be a big deal because he is going to command 20,000 Polish troops to do the dirtiest work...I don't believe for a moment that the scenario would play out the way he is saying, and I don't think the loss of life would be minimal as he is stating....Your use of the word 'war monger' is YOUR addition to what I said...I just don't agree at all with his 'recommendations'for a country and children that aren't his own...and that is a point I will willingly argue over.    :)


Fathertime!     
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline AC

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 08:48:02 PM »
How many years Jayh has been sniffing around Ukraine is not important...as a non-citizen he is currently telling our country that we need to get involved with our military and acting like it will not be a big deal because he is going to command 20,000 Polish troops to do the dirtiest work...I don't believe for a moment that the scenario would play out the way he is saying, and I don't think the loss of life would be minimal as he is stating....Your use of the word 'war monger' is YOUR addition to what I said...I just don't agree at all with his 'recommendations'for a country and children that aren't his own...and that is a point I will willingly argue over.   
 

Now who is acting like an armchair General?   :popcorn:

Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 08:52:21 PM »
Now who is acting like an armchair General?   :popcorn:
jayH   :D
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Offline southernX

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 08:57:11 PM »
Quote
sure thing General Jayh...not your kids/friends going to fight/lose their lives....easy for you to commend us getting involved

Fathertime!   

ft ..its  not your family of kids getting killed in ukraine either is it you yellow dingo   ?


your just a neville  mate , you would not stand up and fight if they where on your front doorstep ,

you know full well wherever americans fight we fight ,so how about you let go of it for a bit ,

SX
 
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Offline AkMike

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 09:05:19 PM »
I just happened to be browsing sniffing in Ukraine and know a bit about it also. he US and it's Euro and other allies need to stop Russia before it succeeds in it's goals of dominating everything it can.

 WWI, WWII and maybe now WWIII

lordtiberius

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 09:10:35 PM »

How many years Jayh has been sniffing around Ukraine is not important...as a non-citizen he is currently telling our country that we need to get involved with our military and acting like it will not be a big deal because he is going to command 20,000 Polish troops to do the dirtiest work...I don't believe for a moment that the scenario would play out the way he is saying, and I don't think the loss of life would be minimal as he is stating....Your use of the word 'war monger' is YOUR addition to what I said...I just don't agree at all with his 'recommendations'for a country and children that aren't his own...and that is a point I will willingly argue over.    :)


Fathertime!   

What you said was indefensible and you attacked the person instead of his argument, which doesn't say a lot for what you believe.  I don't think you know.  You have been too busy nit picking over and twisting the words of people who threaten you, I think you lost your original point.  Your pride may have blinded you to the reality that you are the most consistently and committed Putin defender completely unintentionally.  If true, that's kind weird.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 09:12:52 PM by lordtiberius »

Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 09:11:06 PM »
ft ..its  not your family of kids getting killed in ukraine either is it you yellow dingo   ?


your just a neville  mate , you would not stand up and fight if they where on your front doorstep ,

you know full well wherever americans fight we fight ,so how about you let go of it for a bit ,

SX


Very brave of you sx    :ROFL:



...so why aren't YOU fighting for what you believe in? Obviously I don't believe this is the right fight for us, so I'm sure as heck not going to participate, or try to pressure our representatives to make others here fight. It sounds like you are saying that Australia is one of our lap dogs...I don't disagree but that isn't the point.
Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 09:14:01 PM »
What you said was indefensible and you attacked the person instead of his argument, which doesn't say a lot for what you believe.  I don't think you know.  You have been too busy not picking over and twisting the words of people who threaten you, I think you lost your original point.  Your pride may have blinded you to the reality that you are the most consistently and committed Putin defender completely unintentionally.  If true, that's kind weird.
LOL 
 :blowkiss:


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

lordtiberius

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 09:15:49 PM »
Why do you have a problem with people defending themselves?  Are you pro-rape? Pro-crime? In favor of senseless violence?  Why must those who disagree with you bear your incessant insults?

Do you miss GQBlues that much?  Maybe you should join him?

Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2015, 09:17:59 PM »
Why do you have a problem with people defending themselves?  Are you pro-rape? Pro-crime? In favor of senseless violence?  Why must those who disagree with you bear your incessant insults?


Haha....it is truly laughable what you are trying to say now....continue on.   :thumbsup:
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Offline fathertime

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2015, 09:20:49 PM »
I just happened to be browsing sniffing in Ukraine and know a bit about it also. he US and it's Euro and other allies need to stop Russia before it succeeds in it's goals of dominating everything it can.

 WWI, WWII and maybe now WWIII


Now lets get it straight, have you been browsing or sniffing?   


As far as your subsequent statement goes, I think you must have made a typo, because as it stands it doesn't make sense....perhaps rewriting it would be a good idea.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2015, 09:21:57 PM »
ft, neville

your just a little  yellow dingo sabarka who likes to howl at the moon  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SX

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Re: Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2015, 09:23:29 PM »
ft, neville

your just a little  yellow dingo sabarka who likes to howl at the moon  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SX


and you must be a part of my pack, because I have you howling too!   ;) :D
Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

 

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