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Author Topic: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis  (Read 238890 times)

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Offline Muzh

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To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #251 on: July 25, 2014, 08:08:18 AM »
Quote
Horlivka terrorists are carrying out general mobilization forcefully recruiting teenagers and pensioners into their ranks. ,  ,

"Armed militants are taking the entire male population, starting from 14-year-old teenagers to retired people of 65," the statement says.

It is also noted that the terrorists continue to use civilians as "human shields", as well as post their firing positions in residential areas and civilian objects in the territory.

The militants have placed dozens of Grad systems in crowded residential areas, in particular near Rumiantseva mine in Horlivka, in the territory of the housing department #5 in Khartsyzk, in the village Malomykolaivka near Krasnyi Luch, in Pershomaisk in the vicinity of vocational school # 31.
http://en.censor.net.ua/v295324
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #252 on: July 25, 2014, 08:17:57 AM »

A number of journalists, including VICE News’ Simon Ostrovsky, who has done some of the best reporting on the crisis in
eastern Ukraine to date, posted photos today of an exhumation being conducted by police.

Police informed Ostrovsky that the dig site he witnessed was used as a ‘mass dumping site’ for victims executed by men under Russian terrorist Igor Girkin’s command. At the mass grave, skeletal remains of those from the Russian-Ukrainian civil war also turned up during the dig for bodies.


Recall that previous mass graves were discovered in the city,notably containing priest’s and their families, and documents have shown Girkin to have carried out summary executions on residents of the city.




http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/07/24/police-exhume-more-mass-dumping-sites-of-executed-victims-in-sloviansk/
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 08:22:06 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #253 on: July 25, 2014, 08:27:14 AM »
Boethius-

Does it make you wonder *why* it seems there's a more intense western *coverage* of the atrocities happening in Eastern Ukraine now that movements in the Rada had begun to roll?

Even AI reports, while claiming a *smaller* number of it, violence perpetuated by the pro-Kiev troops ( and armed groups, which is as silly as saying *unnamed Intelligence* having evidence we just can't see right now - no, June's satellite images shot that have nothing to do with the subject event doesn't apply) is hardly detailed of not outright ambiguous.

You have been a good example of this in case you haven't noticed.  :(

I wondered if all of these (western media frenzy) are working by design considering the upcoming *election*, likely to bolster Poroshenko's power even more, requires control of the hostile regions.

Do you know who all were in attendance in the Yalta Summit? It's curious to say the least, if you do not...

All they had to do (Kiev) is allow a representation for the eastern region in those peace meetings before.....
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #254 on: July 25, 2014, 08:33:36 AM »
My coverage is not Western coverage.  It is from Ukraine.

As towns are liberated, it is difficult to hide what occurred.  As I stated at the outset, the "separatists" had a majority ranking of paid mercenaries/criminals, who are wreaking havoc in the areas they control.  Children stepping on landmines, summary executions of innocents (one, a man who stole two shirts - did he deserve a bullet in the head for petty theft?), boys as young as 14 being forcibly recruited into dwindling separatist ranks.  These stories were not reported in the past.

There are Rada members from Eastern Ukraine, and members from the region in the cabinet.  Their governor is a local.  So to suggest they had no representation in Kyiv is inaccurate.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #255 on: July 25, 2014, 09:04:32 AM »
My coverage is not Western coverage.  It is from Ukraine....

Well, don't you think that's just as bad? What do you expect pro-Kiev media is going to churn? Strange how this is demonize on one side but not the other, no?

Quote
...As towns are liberated, it is difficult to hide what occurred.  As I stated at the outset, the "separatists" had a majority ranking of paid mercenaries/criminals, who are wreaking havoc in the areas they control.  Children stepping on landmines, summary executions of innocents (one, a man who stole two shirts - did he deserve a bullet in the head for petty theft?), boys as young as 14 being forcibly recruited into dwindling separatist ranks.  These stories were not reported in the past....

Yes, and if you admit these are difficult to report then where do you find the balance and objective in this? Moreover, *hired guns* is not a one way practice in this conflict, and you know that.

Quote
..There are Rada members from Eastern Ukraine, and members from the region in the cabinet.  Their governor is a local.  So to suggest they had no representation in Kyiv is inaccurate.

The Communist Party is being kicked out, but I'm not talking about that. Before the violence even deepened a month/a month and a half ago, they attempted to settle their disputes and Kiev was asked to make sure E. Ukraine had a delegation/representation in this meeting. It was refused.

Take a page out of the present Israel/Gaza conflict. I'm elated to finally *see* reports of Israel's cruelty being brought front and center and are being contemplated for possible Human Rights violations when it had enjoyed so many years of *western media* sympathetic, compassion plea feeds.

In conflicts, if anyone is *right*, then that makes everyone *wrong*.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 09:09:35 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #256 on: July 25, 2014, 09:34:59 AM »
Well, don't you think that's just as bad? What do you expect pro-Kiev media is going to churn? Strange how this is demonize on one side but not the other, no?


No.  The Ukrainian military hasn't carried out extra judicial murders. 

Quote
Yes, and if you admit these are difficult to report then where do you find the balance and objective in this? Moreover, *hired guns* is not a one way practice in this conflict, and you know that.


I report what has been found on the ground by at least two sources.  The second is usually a Western reporter.  Not likely they are lying for the Ukrainian cause.

Quote
The Communist Party is being kicked out, but I'm not talking about that. Before the violence even deepened a month/a month and a half ago, they attempted to settle their disputes and Kiev was asked to make sure E. Ukraine had a delegation/representation in this meeting. It was refused.

I state again.  Eastern Ukrainians are represented in government.  Why should self appointed Muscovites get a place at the table on what goes on in Ukraine?

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #257 on: July 25, 2014, 10:13:08 AM »

No.  The Ukrainian military hasn't carried out extra judicial murders. ...

First casualty of war is the *truth*.

Quote
..I report what has been found on the ground by at least two sources.  The second is usually a Western reporter.  Not likely they are lying for the Ukrainian cause...

Which you already admitted to be more than likely not complete due to the nature of such strife. Insufficiency of information doesn't necessarily denote reality.

Quote
...I state again.  Eastern Ukrainians are represented in government.  Why should self appointed Muscovites get a place at the table on what goes on in Ukraine?...

And I state again, if *peace* and reconciliation was forefront to this brewing civil war, why didn't they venture and seek every conceivable means to avoid bloodshed?
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #258 on: July 25, 2014, 10:15:20 AM »
First casualty of war is the *truth*.


Read enough sources, and one can discern the truth.

Quote
Which you already admitted to be more than likely not complete due to the nature of such strife. Insufficiency of information doesn't necessarily denote reality.


But the same stories, reported time and again, usually does.

Quote
And I state again, if *peace* and reconciliation was forefront to this brewing civil war, why didn't they venture and seek every conceivable means to avoid bloodshed?


They did.  The Muscovites who came to foment war are not interested in avoiding bloodshed.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #259 on: July 25, 2014, 10:20:53 AM »

Read enough sources, and one can discern the truth...

You mean like the Syrian gas attack or Obama's legacy?

Quote
...But the same stories, reported time and again, usually does....

Like the Libyan embassy/Video tape, right?

Quote
...They did.  The Muscovites who came to foment war are not interested in avoiding bloodshed.

They did not...the meeting never took place because of Kiev's refusal.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #260 on: July 25, 2014, 01:49:57 PM »
No, there were meetings between representatives of the Ukrainian government and the terrorists.  Kuchma was a mediator.  The terrorists were represented by their self appointed "leader", Muscovite Borodai.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline The Natural

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #261 on: July 25, 2014, 01:56:28 PM »
No, there were meetings between representatives of the Ukrainian government and the terrorists.  Kuchma was a mediator.  The terrorists were represented by their self appointed "leader", Muscovite Borodai.

Our tiny country was once invaded by nazis. They fought as good as they could, sinking a war ship, getting the 50 tons of gold out of the country and some fought a resistance fight based from England and Sweden. By Your definition, I Guess they could be called terrorists.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #262 on: July 25, 2014, 01:57:48 PM »
Russia increases attacks in support of terrorists


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/world/europe/russian-artillery-fires-into-ukraine-kiev-says.html?_r=1




Russia denies the claims.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #263 on: July 25, 2014, 03:58:54 PM »
...As I stated at the outset, the "separatists" had a majority ranking of paid mercenaries/criminals, who are wreaking havoc in the areas they control....


http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-1403886665

>>But critics question Mr. Kolomoisky's motives, pointing out that he and other oligarchs in Ukraine may have more financial than altruistic reasons for maintaining the status quo. For years now, critics say, the oligarchs' powerful influence over many industries have blocked economic reforms in a country that has one of Europe's lowest average per capita incomes.

Quote from:  Mark Kramer, professor of Cold War studies at Harvard University
These are precisely the opposite of the sorts of people would you want to appoint as governors. It's hard for me to see why those who fought for change in Ukraine would want such people in charge.


>>Still, Privat Bank, the bank he controls, could stand to gain from aid being pumped into Ukraine that will partly be used to recapitalize the country's banks regardless of the Russian threat. This spring, for example, the International Monetary Fund approved $17 billion in aid to Ukraine, and the World Bank and Group of Seven leading nations plan to pump in another $15 billion soon.<<


>>
Today the Dnipro Battalion has not only the 2,000 battle-ready troops, equipped with heavy weapons, but more than 20,000 in reserve. If any Russian soldier wants to die for Russia, said Yury Beryoza, the commander of the battalion, "they should come to Dnipropetrovsk, because here we will kill them."....

The Dnipro Batallion saw its first major action when separatists took control of a police station in the port city of Mariupol, in an adjacent province. The station was burned to the ground with its occupants. In all, 54 volunteers from Dnipropetrovsk have been killed since the beginning of the fighting.....

He said Mr. Kolomoisky has brought in Romanian and Georgian military advisers to help with the training of troops, who in the Dnipro Battallion until recently only had a week of boot camp. <<

As AI said, albeit discreetly...*armed groups*

 :(


 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 04:03:04 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #264 on: July 25, 2014, 04:05:51 PM »
You're not posting anything I don't know, and have not posted.  He's not a nice guy, to say the least.  He offered a bounty for dead Russians.  However, the skirmishes in Donetsk would have had as much wind as they did in Kharkiv and Odesa were it not for Muscovites arriving and declaring the region an independent republic.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline jone

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #265 on: July 25, 2014, 04:11:59 PM »
After reviewing the maps today and hearing that the separatists have been pushed back in both Donetsk and Lugansk, and also hearing about the great number of defections, it would seem that either the DPR and the LPR are probably on their last legs OR the Russian military is coming across the border. 
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #266 on: July 25, 2014, 04:39:18 PM »
You're not posting anything I don't know, and have not posted.  He's not a nice guy, to say the least.  He offered a bounty for dead Russians.  However, the skirmishes in Donetsk would have had as much wind as they did in Kharkiv and Odesa were it not for Muscovites arriving and declaring the region an independent republic.

I'm glad to know you're aware of it then...

The question now is, why would a reforming government even sanction such a group while negotiating a cease fire/peace treaty? Do you think the formation of such a renegade armed group in Ukraine, with approval of the government, sporting violent sentiments known to everyone is really a recipe for progress?

THAT was my point.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #267 on: July 25, 2014, 04:53:15 PM »
What makes you think the government approved it?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #268 on: July 25, 2014, 05:03:29 PM »
What makes you think the government approved it?

LOL. You claimed you knew all about it. Read the article and if you have doubt of its validity, you may even read it through Kyiv's cover story here...

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/wall-street-journal-ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-353832.html

Evil always have two faces.

All you really have done lately was become a female JayH. I thought the board hated it when he was doing what you've been doing the past few days. I don't even think you got any good night's rest yet.

I understand why you would be moved emotionally about this conflict Boethius, FWIW, I've always regarded you as more of an objective person than most around here. Just a thought...
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline lonedrake

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #269 on: July 25, 2014, 06:45:40 PM »
Quote
FWIW, I've always regarded you as more of an objective person than most around here.


 I still do.

 Maybe look in the mirror? Something to think about.

Offline Larry1

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #270 on: July 25, 2014, 07:16:37 PM »
LOL. You claimed you knew all about it. Read the article and if you have doubt of its validity, you may even read it through Kyiv's cover story here...

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/wall-street-journal-ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-353832.html

Evil always have two faces.

All you really have done lately was become a female JayH. I thought the board hated it when he was doing what you've been doing the past few days. I don't even think you got any good night's rest yet.

I understand why you would be moved emotionally about this conflict Boethius, FWIW, I've always regarded you as more of an objective person than most around here. Just a thought...

IQBlues,

It's telling that you are not able to contend with any of Boethius's arguments.  All you have done is to engage in ad hominem attacks and arguments based on the flimsiest evidence. But from your posting history I never expected more from you.

Offline calmissile

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #271 on: July 25, 2014, 07:19:49 PM »
IQBlues,

It's telling that you are not able to contend with any of Boethius's arguments.  All you have done is to engage in ad hominem attacks and arguments based on the flimsiest evidence. But from your posting history I never expected more from you.

Agree 100%

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline BillyB

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #272 on: July 25, 2014, 07:48:03 PM »
Russia increases attacks in support of terrorists


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/world/europe/russian-artillery-fires-into-ukraine-kiev-says.html?_r=1




Sanctions don't work. The world's response to Russia pertaining to the MH17 disaster was weak. Putin understands this so he makes more moves. The first response should have been a strong response. That's the only thing Putin will respect.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline GQBlues

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #273 on: July 25, 2014, 07:59:17 PM »
I still do.

Yup. Me, too..

Quote
Maybe look in the mirror? Something to think about.

No maybes, I do and certainly like what I see. Honestly now, what about you? Do you like what YOU see?

...It's telling that you are not able to contend with any of Boethius's arguments....

Oh I beg to differ. But I'm glad we do have the difference. May it always remain so....


...I understand why you would be moved emotionally about this conflict Boethius, FWIW, I've always regarded you as more of an objective person than most around here. Just a thought...
.... All you have done is to engage in ad hominem attacks and arguments based on the flimsiest evidence. But from your posting history I never expected more from you.

Maybe you ought to either take the meds or lay off the booze. It's obvious your lack of reading comprehension precedes you. I'd chalk this up as clinical but methinks it's the natural aging process at work here. Do you see dead people now and then, too?

As for posting history, from one who delights on nubile pics, I think I'll take a pass and simply consider the source. Touche:P

Agree 100%

LOL. Well of course you do!  Old minds think alike. Now what? ;)

It's the weekend fellas! Like is out there to enjoy not to sit your booty posting on message boards. People are going to think you ain't got life!. Happy Weekend!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 08:09:12 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline fathertime

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #274 on: July 25, 2014, 08:20:48 PM »
IQBlues,

It's telling that you are not able to contend with any of Boethius's arguments.  All you have done is to engage in ad hominem attacks and arguments based on the flimsiest evidence. But from your posting history I never expected more from you.


I don’t know Larry, I read through their exchange and I’m not seeing GQ attacking her, if anything he seemed awful polite in the way he was making his points.  Are you guys sure you’re not just picking on him because you don’t agree with his viewpoint?  He shouldn't be condemned just because he checkmated her with that last article he linked. 


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

 

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