Russian Women Discussion

RWD News From the Front => Ukrainian Front Discussion => Topic started by: JayH on October 19, 2017, 05:25:48 PM

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on October 19, 2017, 05:25:48 PM
  The battle for Ukraine to extract itself out of the Soviet Union has continued long after the disintegration of the FSU  as Soviet Russia and Putin's kleptocracy has fought to maintain control and influence over Ukraine.Ukrainians fought a bloody battle on the streets of Kyiv and now in  an ongoing war in eastern Ukraine in the desire for freedom and a democracy.

  My fundamental observation is contained in this sentence  quote "Ukrainian civil society has reason to be proud of what it has accomplished to date."end quote .The question some still ask is "what has changed"? Well-- a lot has changed- but progress is still too slow -- a point most agree on.

  Progress in Ukraine is clearly discernible on many fronts, but it is in danger. Incomplete reforms threaten to undermine the credibility of ‘new forces’ and lead to the disillusionment of millions of Ukrainians. This would open the way for revanchist and populist forces to hijack Ukraine’s transformation agenda.


  Nearly four years on from its Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine is fighting for survival as an independent and viable state.

   This report makes the case for increased Western support, and argues the EU has been too timid in applying its unprecedented political mandate to drive forward post-2014 reforms in the country.                   

  The report, which includes policy recommendations, assesses Ukraine’s position and prospects, and examines its double existential threat: resisting Russian interference, and the fierce internal contest to determine its own political, institutional and civic future.     

  The report covers six critical areas: geopolitics and security in the context of the conflict with Russia; European integration and the demands of the Association Agreement; economic reform; governance, democratization and the media; the role of civil society in reforms; and efforts to combat corruption.   

The Struggle for Ukraine

http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2017-10-18-struggle-for-ukraine-ash-gunn-lough-lutsevych-nixey-sherr-wolczuk.pdf

http://www.chathamhouse.org/publication/struggle-for-ukraine

http://f1.media.brightcove.com/7/2848955551001/2848955551001_5600139110001_5600112311001.mp4?pubId=2848955551001&videoId=5600112311001

A quick read summary of issues is here--


Five Things to Know about the Problems Facing Ukraine


(1) Ukraine is currently fighting two separate battles.

(2) Seven per cent of Ukraine’s internationally recognized territory has either been annexed by Russia or is controlled by pro-Russian separatists.

(3) Ukraine has struggled to weaken the grip of vested interests and establish a rules-based market economy domestically.

(4) The outcome of Ukraine’s protracted domestic battle with corruption will ultimately define its future.

(5) The Euromaidan protest in late 2013 was triggered by the Ukrainian government’s suspension of plans for closer integration with the EU.




http://medium.com/chatham-house/five-things-to-know-about-the-problems-facing-ukraine-27c2b22f5074


The struggle for Ukraine: a detailed analysis of reform and failure after Euromaidan


Ukraine’s principal challenges
1. Security and defense

2. Reforms. Eurointegration

3 Economic reforms

4 Democratization and governance

5 Human capital and civil society

6 Anti-corruption reforms

Recommendations

To strengthen security,To advance EU integration,To boost economic and political reform,



http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/20/the-struggle-for-ukraine-a-detailed-analysis-of-reform-and-failure-after-1991/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on October 20, 2017, 06:42:36 PM
I have linked this article here because it is a summary of some history that led to much of the content of the above articles.
This is quite a good summary in such a short space.
Russia’s attitude has roots in the revolution — and in the famine that killed 13 percent of Ukrainians.


Why does Putin want to control Ukraine? Ask Stalin.



In 2014, Russian officials looked with horror at the young people waving European flags and calling for democracy in Kiev’s Maidan Square and were determined to make sure such a movement would never spread to Russia itself: A mass anti-corruption protest — particularly one that ends with occupation of the dictator’s palace — is what Russia’s corrupt oligarchs fear most. Putin witnessed exactly that kind of “chaos” as a young KGB officer in Dresden in 1989, when the fall of the Berlin Wall struck him as catastrophic. He now blames protests against him on “foreign agents” and Hillary Clinton.

But the need to control Ukraine also has important roots in Russia’s historical memory, and the KGB’s. Turbulence in Ukraine hits panic buttons, because anarchy in the Soviet Union’s agricultural heartland has nearly destabilized Moscow more than once. Perhaps the best way to explain Putin’s paranoia and covetousness toward Kiev is this: Russia remembers those moments well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/why-does-putin-want-control-ukraine-ask-stalin/2017/10/20/800a7afe-b427-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.85cc61a6d83d

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/anne-applebaum-putin-want-control-ukraine-ask-stalin.html

If you have a problem reading the previous links-- it should be possible to read in full here ---

http://www.cetusnews.com/news/Perspective-%7C-Why-does-Putin-want-control-Ukraine--Ask-Stalin-.SkgypvuBFw6Z.html

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: jone on October 20, 2017, 07:04:06 PM
I have linked this article here because it is a summary of some history that led to much of the content of the above articles.
This is quite a good summary in such a short space.
Russia’s attitude has roots in the revolution — and in the famine that killed 13 percent of Ukrainians.


Why does Putin want to control Ukraine? Ask Stalin.



In 2014, Russian officials looked with horror at the young people waving European flags and calling for democracy in Kiev’s Maidan Square and were determined to make sure such a movement would never spread to Russia itself: A mass anti-corruption protest — particularly one that ends with occupation of the dictator’s palace — is what Russia’s corrupt oligarchs fear most. Putin witnessed exactly that kind of “chaos” as a young KGB officer in Dresden in 1989, when the fall of the Berlin Wall struck him as catastrophic. He now blames protests against him on “foreign agents” and Hillary Clinton.

But the need to control Ukraine also has important roots in Russia’s historical memory, and the KGB’s. Turbulence in Ukraine hits panic buttons, because anarchy in the Soviet Union’s agricultural heartland has nearly destabilized Moscow more than once. Perhaps the best way to explain Putin’s paranoia and covetousness toward Kiev is this: Russia remembers those moments well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/why-does-putin-want-control-ukraine-ask-stalin/2017/10/20/800a7afe-b427-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.85cc61a6d83d

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/anne-applebaum-putin-want-control-ukraine-ask-stalin.html

If you have a problem reading the previous links-- it should be possible to read in full here ---

http://www.cetusnews.com/news/Perspective-%7C-Why-does-Putin-want-control-Ukraine--Ask-Stalin-.SkgypvuBFw6Z.html

Putin controls 'part' of Ukraine.  At a tremendous cost.  But he has permanently driven a wedge between the Ukrainian and the Russian peoples.  The only way Ukraine would ever ally with Russia is if the country was forced to through subjugation.

I would be interested in knowing, if anyone could provide the numbers - the economic output of the Donbas before the war and presently.   And, the cost (or drain) on the Russian economy by Krim.  Brent Crude is now at $57 a barrel.  But the major oil producers are predicting 2018 as having a significant drop in prices again, with Brent Crude hovering around $45. 

Russia mortgaged its economy in the oil sale to China.  It continues on, with infrastructure and economic development suffering.  At the same time, Putin continues to invest heavily in military spending, last week proclaiming that he had the best weapons in the world.  Of course, one of the only true items of export, aside from Russian oil is Russian weapons.  Quite honestly, my take is that the Israelis have the best military technology in the world, presently.  Economic and efficient.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on October 25, 2017, 03:39:28 PM

The elephant in the room for all issues in Ukraine is Russia. The battle to get Russia out of Ukraine is ongoing -- and not just the battle for physical territory in eastern Ukraine and the Crimea.
Russia is intent on preventing Ukraine succeeding as a democracy .

Why Ukraine’s Next Revolution Won’t Be on the Streets

But the run-up to the 2019 elections will be troublesome. Russian meddling in Ukraine’s political system is growing. “I see a heightened crisis in Ukraine because [Poroshenko] has decided to take on [Dmytro] Firtash,” he said. Firtash has worked closely with the Kremlin. “There is a serious criminal investigation [into Firtash] by the general prosecutor. And [Firtash] is funneling serious money to political rivals to undermine Poroshenko.”


This is an extension of the Kremlin’s 2014 strategy designed to reverse the Revolution of Dignity and prevent it from spreading. “Moscow wants to create a neo-Russian republic in eastern and southern Ukraine as a '[blockage] to the Maidan,” he said.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-ukraine-s-next-revolution-won-t-be-on-the-streets
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brasscasing on December 13, 2017, 06:24:07 PM
There ya go, Jay...

Canadian arms makers get OK to sell to Ukraine

..."The Liberal cabinet has given the green light for Canadian defence contractors to sell weapons to Ukraine in a watershed decision which a senior official of that country hopes will influence the Trump administration to follow suit.

The embattled eastern European country has been added to Canada's automatic firearms country control list."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ukraine-weapons-1.4446891

Better late than never, I guess.

Whether it actually happens or not is a different story. The current federal government is notorious for saying one thing and doing another, but we'll see.

Brass
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on January 18, 2018, 05:38:26 PM

This is quite an interesting read. It touches the various issues and is quite a good summary.

The alienation of Ukrainians and the bleak prospects for rebranding them as “Little Russians” belie the notion of Russian success in Ukraine.

Little Hope for “Little Russia”

Current analysis of Russian foreign policy largely depicts—whether with approbation or anxiety—a Kremlin going from strength to strength. With a grab-bag of low-cost, low-risk measures, Russia has reputedly confounded the West, exacerbating our internal divisions, interfering in our elections, and in some cases perhaps even affecting the outcome. Moscow has supposedly snatched Georgia and Ukraine from the clutches of NATO, seized the initiative throughout the Middle East, and enhanced Russian positions in virtually every corner of the globe. Ah, how quaint now sound the recent dismissals of Russia as just a regional power, or “a gas station masquerading as a country!” The Russians have risen from their knees, and we suddenly perceive with alarm that they are ten feet tall.

However, this vision of a rising—or rampaging—Russia needs a serious rethinking at least as far as Moscow’s goals in Ukraine are concerned. The assessment of Russian success in Ukraine is largely rooted in two suppositions: a) that Russian military interventions in Ukraine (as well as in Georgia in 2008) are long-overdue comeuppance for past NATO enlargement and just punishment for Western perfidy; and b) that Russian military action was required to thwart a Western plot to pull Ukraine into NATO in 2014, and prevented the emergence of a serious long-term threat to Russian security.

Neither of these suppositions makes any sense.


http://www.the-american-interest.com/2018/01/17/little-hope-little-russia/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on January 18, 2018, 05:47:26 PM



That's the big headline for today Jay? You're slipping. Ukraine just passed a bill to get the occupied regions back. Russia says it's a violation of the Minsk peace accords. Back to war?




http://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-parliament-passes-bill-occupied-territories-121358340.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on January 19, 2018, 03:18:27 AM


That's the big headline for today Jay? You're slipping. Ukraine just passed a bill to get the occupied regions back.

NO, they haven't .. the Headline is misleading

1/ It re-iterates that the regions under 'rebel control' are 'occupied'

2/ It does not rule out the use of military force

Funnily enough Russia thinks as you do ;)

http://www.rt.com/politics/416319-ukraine-minsk-deal-donbas-russia/ (http://www.rt.com/politics/416319-ukraine-minsk-deal-donbas-russia/)

"New Kiev  law marks shift ‘from sabotage to burial’ on Minsk deal – Russian senator"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on February 01, 2018, 04:41:05 PM
This is an assessment that I mostly agree with --please read the whole article  and not just the sample included.
I accept that many Americans here do not like Trump being criticised -- but what is going on in America right now ( & for the last 18 months)  is playing right into Putin's hands. The Russian international strategies have and are working way beyond any expectation.
  Obama sat on his hands over his last 4 years and never recognised the immense threat of Russia -- certainly Obama fiddled at the edges --the mistake was he totally underestimated Russia and it's intent.
  Now --Trump does nothing about Russia ( certainly nothing of any real consequence) -- it is a HUGE mistake.
The clock is ticking.


How Ukraine can build an army to beat Putin

Putin must destroy Ukraine as it exists now. To leave it intact is to destroy himself and his ambitions. He must win because of his war crimes: the mass graves, the torture in Donbas and Crimea, and the MH17 shootdown. All will put him firmly into The Hague as a war criminal. He must win because Ukraine is flourishing as a nation and it shows him as a failure. He must win because the truth will destroy him and Russia.

Putin must invade or subdue Ukraine. He is not yet ready, but the evidence of his preparation is stark. He continues to reinforce, fight and kill in the Donbas. He continues to test new equipment, people and methods in Syria. He reinforces Crimea. He reinforces Kaliningrad to block Western reinforcement. He stockpiles equipment in Belarus. He continues to reequip the army, especially with tanks and modern technological systems. All this is far beyond any peacetime needs. He spends precious national money on the military he needs elsewhere. He continues to train for a strategic war in the west – which means Ukraine cannot escape this and will be a prime target. The Russian MOD says openly in the media that they need three more years to reequip the army in western Russia with tanks and to train troops. This time must not be wasted by Ukraine.


http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/glen-grant-ukraine-can-build-army-beat-putin.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 01, 2018, 05:03:55 PM
That's a terrific article by someone who really knows what he's talking about - it's well worth the time taken to read it.  Also, there are a couple of extremely well-written comments from people who obviously have military experience.

Thanks, Jay!  :thumbsup:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on February 01, 2018, 05:25:02 PM
That's a terrific article by someone who really knows what he's talking about - it's well worth the time taken to read it.  Also, there are a couple of extremely well-written comments from people who obviously have military experience.

Thanks, Jay!  :thumbsup:

Agree --there is a lot in it.
Generally speaking -I like to see the "big picture" fix in anything I do -- and not waste too much time on putting a finger in   the dyke! Ukraine was left no choice but to deal with immediate "small picture" issues first.The time comes to change gear -- and that is now.

One of the many plus points made in article is about younger battle experienced officers be put in command of fighting troops.That is in contrast with how it was back in early 2014 when seniority and rank was THE only factor.  I have seen first hand  how good and respected the younger new generation of leadership is received  -- both my the men they command -- and  as the reports filter back to their home towns( or based city/towns) the reception given on return from the east tells the story.

The morale of Ukrainian troops is now high -- and that must be used to advantage.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: kynrazor on February 01, 2018, 06:52:27 PM
Putin must destroy Ukraine as it exists now. To leave it intact is to destroy himself and his ambitions. He must win because of his war crimes: the mass graves, the torture in Donbas and Crimea, and the MH17 shootdown. All will put him firmly into The Hague as a war criminal. He must win because Ukraine is flourishing as a nation and it shows him as a failure. He must win because the truth will destroy him and Russia.

I thought Putin's intention was to prevent Ukraine's accession to the EU? In that case he's already largely succeeded.

If his intention was to declare war on Ukraine, that would be wasting Russia's already strained economic resources and I do not see how it's possible to win such a conventional war anyway. At best it will be a war of attrition for Russia. Double stupid.

Putin must invade or subdue Ukraine. He is not yet ready, but the evidence of his preparation is stark. He continues to reinforce, fight and kill in the Donbas. He continues to test new equipment, people and methods in Syria. He reinforces Crimea. He reinforces Kaliningrad to block Western reinforcement. He stockpiles equipment in Belarus. He continues to reequip the army, especially with tanks and modern technological systems. All this is far beyond any peacetime needs. He spends precious national money on the military he needs elsewhere. He continues to train for a strategic war in the west – which means Ukraine cannot escape this and will be a prime target. The Russian MOD says openly in the media that they need three more years to reequip the army in western Russia with tanks and to train troops. This time must not be wasted by Ukraine.

More like he's modernising the Russian military as he rightly should. Defending Russia and neutralising insurrections has always been very expensive as they have had too vast amounts of land and not enough mobile troops to properly cover it.

And on top of this, they've been distracted by the Syrian adventure, are still retro-modernising their aging military assets, still has yet to successfully establish their own silicon valley, with majority of their universities having inadequate funding and producing mostly sub-par scientific research (vital for military industrial powerhouse), etc etc.

Despite all this, you still think Russia has the appetite to conquer Ukraine? Seriously?

Unless the Russian Government has lost all sense of rationality, this is probably not going to happen.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on February 01, 2018, 07:37:11 PM
I thought Putin's intention was to prevent Ukraine's accession to the EU? In that case he's already largely succeeded.



Putin decided to play a long game. He's being patient. He'll continue to destabilize Ukraine hurting it's economy. People will be disillusioned that a Pro Western Ukrainian president can get the job done. Russian propaganda will have some effect. In time, the Ukrainian people will eventually vote in another guy Putin can buy.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: jone on February 01, 2018, 07:55:37 PM
I would not be surprised to see a substantial investment by Western powers into Ukrainian infrastructure.  While it is a risk, it is one that would thwart Putin.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on March 22, 2018, 08:58:38 PM
A summary point I have been making --enable Ukraine not only to defend itself, but also to rescue Europe


How the US Can Shore Up Ukraine’s Vulnerabilities in the Black Sea

Given Putin’s widening of the war against the West, it should be clear that multi-dimensional resistance to his efforts must be increased lest he continue to believe that he need merely push against the West to expose its weakness and ensure a Russian victory. The ideas advanced here should become part of a new program to enable Ukraine not only to defend itself, but also to rescue Europe by its example.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/how-the-us-can-shore-up-ukraine-s-vulnerabilities-in-the-black-sea
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on March 22, 2018, 09:14:53 PM
I would not be surprised to see a substantial investment by Western powers into Ukrainian infrastructure.  While it is a risk, it is one that would thwart Putin.

There has been via the IMF   and  increased and increasing private investment over this last 4 years . I wrote 4 years ago how much was changing post Maidan -- and the rate of change is accelerating. There are so many positive indicators now --it is almost exciting.

That said ,it is been a hell of a time for everyday Ukrainians with huge leaps in costs of utilities ( at the behest of the IMF) - but--  considerable ground work has been happening that will be a foundation for future growth.
The biggest problem and hurdle that MUST be addressed  --is the ongoing corruption at the highest levels. Somehow --Ukraine needs to put the structure in place for a zero tolerance  approach to ending corruption.

Unfortunately -- with American leadership mute & hamstrung ( see-I said something nice about Trump!) over dealing with Russia -- there is an opportunity going begging. I would tie military and political aid & support from the US ( & EU) to internal reforms on corruption   ie guarantee Ukrainian independence if Ukraine can join western standards  of management of the country.

By far the easiest way to deal with Russia for the west--is to ensure a free & democratic Ukraine  succeeds as a democracy. The pressure that will apply to Putin's Russian kleptocracy would be immense from within Russia --once Russians see what is possible.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on April 09, 2018, 06:53:11 PM
Quote
The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
 by Cynthia Buckley, Ralph Clem, Jarod Fox and Erik Herron  April 9 at 7:00 AM
The fighting in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region is entering its fifth year. More than 10,000 people have been killed in this persistent conflict; 2,800 were civilians. Nearly two million people have been internally displaced or put at risk if they remain in their homes.Today, the Donbas war is among the worst humanitarian crises in the world, with frequent attacks occurring from both sides across the oblasts (provinces) of Donetsk and Luhansk. Before the war, this compact, heavily urbanized and industrialized region held nearly 15 percent of Ukraine’s population (6.6 million) and generated 16 percent of its gross domestic product. (http://www.beratergruppe-ukraine.de/download/TN/TN_04_2014_en.pdf) Now it’s a war zone. And our research has documented that, as its hospitals and medical facilities are destroyed — perhaps even targeted — its citizens are being deprived of basic health-care services, echoing Syria’s .....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/04/09/the-war-in-ukraine-is-more-devastating-than-you-know/


 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 09, 2018, 07:30:12 PM
live map here

http://ukrstream.tv/en/liveuamap

lot of activity around Mariupol today, yesterday 2 Russian armored brigades entered southern Ukraine from the east so the pretense of the Russian army not officially being there is no longer being "played" 

my nephew's iphone still has him stationed in Rostov so his brigade is not on the move yet

which card will Putin play first, Syria or Ukraine, I'm predicting that one will be a distraction for the other...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 09, 2018, 09:59:58 PM
when Putin makes his move on Ukraine he will also take the remainder of Republic of Georgia and Atlantic Richfield's Pipe-line
simultaneous attack north from Krim, west from Donbas, East from Transnistria to Odessa South towards Kiev
at least one will be a diversion
I think everything east of the dnipro will be seized along with southern Ukraine
the war will last less than 2 weeks and involve the entire Russian military
there will be a "major event" that triggers the invasion...

afterwards a new potsdam to divvy up Ukraine
should Western Ukraine continue as an independent nation or be absorbed by its neighbors
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2018, 10:47:23 PM
live map here

http://ukrstream.tv/en/liveuamap

lot of activity around Mariupol today, yesterday 2 Russian armored brigades entered southern Ukraine from the east so the pretense of the Russian army not officially being there is no longer being "played" 

my nephew's iphone still has him stationed in Rostov so his brigade is not on the move yet

which card will Putin play first, Syria or Ukraine, I'm predicting that one will be a distraction for the other...

The OSCE monitoring mission is strangely silent on this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 10, 2018, 12:03:53 AM
their positions are too far away for them to directly observe the U/R border where they cross
haven't seen their press reports regarding secondary sources of info...

my sources from within the Russian military tell me Russia has been gearing up for a "blizkrieg" on Ukraine for quite some time
Putin's window of opportunity is exactly the length of time that Trump is in office...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on April 10, 2018, 01:16:24 AM
live map here

http://ukrstream.tv/en/liveuamap

lot of activity around Mariupol today, yesterday 2 Russian armored brigades entered southern Ukraine from the east so the pretense of the Russian army not officially being there is no longer being "played" 



They did not actually enter Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on April 15, 2018, 11:38:05 AM
Russia's imperialistic attitude towards independent Ukraine has turned an instinctive ally into an aggrieved adversary - and Vladimir Putin must personally accept much of the responsibility for the collapse of Kremlin influence in Moscow's traditional geopolitical heartlands


Russian retreat from Ukraine is a tale of unforced Kremlin errors and self-defeating imperial hubris

The ultimate example of Russia’s tone-deaf approach to Ukraine came in spring 2014, when Kremlin efforts to partition the country via hybrid military intervention left Moscow’s influence on Ukrainian affairs at historic lows and Putin's dreams of a new Eurasian empire in tatters. This blunder was to prove the final nail in the coffin of Russia’s Ukraine policy, but it was very much in line with all that had gone before. The decision to engineer pro-Russian uprisings inside Ukraine in early 2014 reflected Moscow's long-held but deluded belief that Russian-speaking Ukrainians would flock to the Kremlin banner when the time was right. It was the culmination of Russia's refusal since 1991 to recognize the nation-building dynamics at work in independent Ukraine.

Remarkably, Russia remains apparently incapable of learning from these failures. In early March 2018, the Kremlin once more succeeded in briefly uniting Ukrainian society against it. On this latest occasion, Moscow abruptly cut gas supplies to the country at a time when temperatures were averaging minus fifteen degrees. Ordinary Ukrainians responded to the emergency by rallying round and dramatically reducing their energy consumption. This allowed the population to survive unscathed, but many will remember how close Russia’s actions brought them to potential humanitarian catastrophe. Yet again, Moscow demonstrated its unrivaled ability to mobilize the Ukrainian population while simultaneously shooting itself in the foot.

It is hard to avoid the conclusion that for reasons rooted in its own sense of national identity, modern Russia simply cannot accept the idea of an independent Ukraine. This would go some way towards explaining Moscow’s otherwise irrational refusal to treat Ukraine as a fully sovereign nation, despite the obviously detrimental effect such posturing has had on Russian influence. It would also help make sense of Russia’s apparent need to belittle Ukrainian statehood aspirations while depicting Ukrainian patriotism as an extremist menace


http://bunews.com.ua/opinion/item/opinion-russian-retreat-from-ukraine-is-a-tale-of-unforced-kremlin-errors-and-self-defeating-imperial-hubris
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: alex330 on May 07, 2018, 09:07:49 AM
How Ukraine can build an army to beat Putin

Ukraine can develop new weaponry with funding from countries like Saudi Arabia....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/189623/ukraine-releases-more-data-on-hrim_2-srbm.html (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/189623/ukraine-releases-more-data-on-hrim_2-srbm.html)

Putin better hurry up....
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 07, 2018, 09:40:24 AM
<krimster2>
daily departures from NAS Sigonella, Italy, multiple USAF Northrop Grumman RQ-4B (10-2043) with super advanced AI optics flying surveillance mission over eastern Ukraine

stay sharp boyz!!!


big build-up!!! on both sides!!!!

is it for show?
or will Putin “break bad” again?

if Trump is impeached, will Putin attack eastern Ukraine in force?
is the media campaign in Russia assuring Russians that when they’re disconnected from SWIFT that “all will be well”, part of the information campaign for this war?

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: alex330 on May 19, 2018, 12:38:09 PM


The Ukrainian naval infantry will in many ways follow the United States Marine Corps as the most perfect model for long-term development.


“From my point of view, the U.S. Marine Corps is undoubtedly the best trained and most combat potent element of the U.S. military, which is able to wage the 5th and the 6th generation warfare – not only on the ground, but also offshore, in the air, and so on.”


http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/general-yuriy-sodol-marines-bring-hope-ukraines-naval-revival.html




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2018, 12:41:00 PM
we're going to need a lot more monuments for dead soldiers in Ukraine
a whole lot more...



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: alex330 on May 19, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
At least they erect monuments rather than hide their dead in shame.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: alex330 on May 26, 2018, 09:10:12 PM
The Ukrainian Armed Forces conducted their first live-fire test of the Javelin anti-tank missile system provided by the United States as part of its defense aid package to the country.

http://youtu.be/yVM2SUmoxAY

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraines-armed-forces-test-javelins-video.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraines-armed-forces-test-javelins-video.html)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 27, 2018, 06:34:05 AM
unfortunately, as part of the deal
javelins have to be stored in special "monitored" facilities
so they don't end up on the black market in the middle east
there are facilities for this
one's in kharkov
i know where they are
Russians know where they
when the kakashka goes down, those monitored facilties are all gonna be rubble in the first 3 min

so back to RPGS

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on April 28, 2019, 12:42:28 PM
Another  Mc standing up for Ukraine

America Must Stand with Ukraine Against Russia[/b]

Michael McCaul: Washington should increase foreign military sales and security assistance to Ukraine.




http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-must-stand-ukraine-against-russia-54437
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on September 20, 2019, 07:23:26 PM

In Ukraine, They  Sing a Lullaby that Gives Russians the Creeps


Ukrainian sense of sefl is stronger than ever.

On September 19, 2019, on social media  pages of some Ukrainian volunteers, bloggers, and activists featured pictures with a concise caption, “SLEEP,” which was drawn in red on the background of a heap of coal.

 It turned out that these pictures came from a new video by a Ukrainian singer, Anastasiya Shevchenko, and that video, based on her song, “A Lullaby for an Enemy,” not only touched the hearts of Ukrainians but also sent shivers down the spine of Russians.

 It is interesting that in the past, Anastasiya Shevchenko was a fighter and a paramedic of the Third Company of the Battalion number one of the Ukrainian Kulchytsky National Guard.

“Deep in my soul, I feel pity for our enemies. When you see people, who come to die in some other people’s land, then you understand just how badly they live in their own.
It is easier for them to sleep forever in other people’s land than to survive in theirs.

That’s why today I sing this lullaby for the enemy,” – wrote Anastasiya .
In their comments to the video, many viewers wrote that this is very heart-rending and powerful, and that it sounds like a spell or a black magic.

“Very strong. Makes you almost shiver. One can make this into a horror video and put it on at the demarcation line in the Donbas,” wrote one YouTube user.

“It’s even more than shivers down one’s spine. Every nerve and every little hair on your body reacts to this. Very, very strong!” – said another listener.

“It’s only us Ukrainians who can call our enemies воріженьки (the diminutive form of a noun, the way one calls a small child) and sing a lullaby to them when we kill them. Ukrainians are my amazing nation, talented, musical, and worthy of a better living. One feels electricity spreading over the skin when one listens to this woman sing. Glory to Ukraine!” – yet another listener stressed.

The song does sound like a spell in Ukrainian. Yet, specifically for Russians, the video has subtitles in red, which resemble traces of blood on the black coal of the Donbas. If you liked this “lullaby,” please, forward a link to this song to the Russian occupiers of Ukraine. Let them listen to it and then sleep for all eternity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=40WD9RDAMVc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=40WD9RDAMVc


“Year after year
I sing this lullaby to you
Obey my word
Sleep

I pity you, my enemy
Pity that you chose to walk down this road
You walk toward your death like a lunatic
Sleep

Leave your anger and leave your fatigue
There is no more need
You will drown forever in your sleep
Sleep

You will sleep forever in this cold soil
To you, it will be like this womb of mine
You are my captive forever
Sleep

You wanted this land
Now mix with it
You are my land now
Sleep

One Can Make This into a Horror Video and Put It on at the Demarcation Line”

http://informnapalm.org/en/in-ukraine-they-began-to-sing-a-lullaby-that-gives-russians-creeps-a-video/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 20, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
yes, I make up silly stories!
like the silly story of Zelensky working on behalf of Kolomoisky...

that’s crazy!!!

so please explain this photo, taken 10 days ago in Ukraine...
please explain why the former head of the NBU is being physically attacked at both home and abroad, AND for what reason....

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ex-nbu-head-gontareva-decries-persecution-after-arson-attack-hit-and-run.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/house-of-ex-nbu-head-gontareva-burned-down-in-molotov-cocktail-attack.html

Putin has put pressure on Trump to go after Kolomoisky’s assets in the USA...
to put pressure on Kolomoisky....

instead of being in jail Kolomoisky is working out a deal over Privatbank with  Zelensky!!!
he is going to have the bank returned to him!!!!!  it’s already 90% negotiated
he is going to give up in oil company in return!!!!!

http://www.ft.com/content/beddb1cc-d885-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

Kolomoisky wants the ex-head of the NBU OUT OF THE WAY
to do his Cyprus syphon extortion SCHEME all over again!!!!! 
ask Wilbur Ross how that one works!

when the house of cards collapses, Russian political engineering is waiting....
to start crying “zhids”!!!!!   zhids!!! they crashed the economy!!!!!!
hundreds of titushki begin attacking synagogs and Jews in the street...
Jews ask for international help
Russian army is in Odessa in 100 hours after crossing border
to save Ukraine from fascists!
game over. man..


ahahahahahahahahaha

because I will have a Russian Passport tovarish, and will be registered at a prestigious address in Moscva...
and you on the other hand are going to have to start going to Moldova from then on JayJay!!!
and leave malenkaya Rossiya to me, horrosho!

hope you remembered the dingo treats when you went grocery shopping...
must SUCK to have to do your own shopping and cooking and stuff like that, HUH? 
I, on the other hand, have a whole bunch of women EAGER to serve me...




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 22, 2019, 02:15:44 PM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22223.msg517990#msg517990 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22223.msg517990#msg517990)


The "propaganda" for Ukraine is so strong, she has to sing it in Russian.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 22, 2019, 02:27:07 PM


 “A Lullaby for an Enemy,” not only touched the hearts of Ukrainians but also sent shivers down the spine of Russians.

Sorry, but there is probably nothing that Ukraine or Ukrainians can do that will send shivers down spine of Russians.

Only hope would have been if Ukraine had kept nuclear weapons.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 22, 2019, 03:17:55 PM
so a couple of months after the military director of the battalions commits suicide
Zelensky withdraws all of the military force the battalions had stationed in the East...

a month ago Zelensky replaced the Prime Minister who was also Jewish, with a non-Jew
to turn it down a notch

too many Jews will make the soup unappealing to Goy tastes...

everyone’s just waiting for Putin to make the call, the military is 100% ready!
if Trump is not re-elected then Putin’s window shuts next November...
Nord Stream will be ready by then...

the collapse of the current western liberal attitude in Ukraine
will occur after the collapse of Ukraine, and Ukraine will shift far right to Russia
if you are Ukrainian, what can you put your faith and hopes in?
there will be only one thing Tovarisch...
and things are gonna go back to the way they’ve always been
and always will be in little Russia
Ukrainians are to Russians
what the Irish are to the English...
a hardy breed of serfs...


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 22, 2019, 04:25:15 PM
Ukrainians are to Russians what the Irish are to the English... a hardy breed of serfs...

Actually serfdom was more prevalent in Russia than in Ukraine.
A consequence of the much richer farm land in Ukraine.

This also was a cause of the Holodomor directed at Ukrainians because they were more resistant to
communism and collective farming than most other parts of the growing Soviet Union.
They were more resistant because they had a class of well to do (relatively) farmers (kulaks) who had never been serfs, unlike the widespread surfdom in Russia.
The kulaks were separated into three categories: those to be killed immediately, those to be sent to prison, and those to be deported to Siberia or Russia Asia.

Russians are more accepting of centralized control and even dictatorship because of their history of being serfs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 22, 2019, 04:39:17 PM
some would disagree with what you wrote, and some wouldn't
here's a short reference regarding Ukrainian peasantry

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CS%5CE%5CSerfdom.htm

the village where I established Rancho Del Krimster, was a former Soviet agricultural workers village
like a migrant workers camp but on a permanent basis
people who lived here were second class citizens in the Soviet Union
you can do WTF you want here and everyone will be too scared to complain about it!!!

one of my wife's relatives was arrested for being a kulak in the soviet period, because he owned a chandelier and two cows!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on September 22, 2019, 10:33:39 PM



This also was a cause of the Holodomor directed at Ukrainians

Except that the 'Holodomor' decimated populations in what is / was clearly Russia...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on September 23, 2019, 12:16:07 AM
Except that the 'Holodomor' decimated populations in what is / was clearly Russia...

Oh?
It is one thing playing the forums fool to get attention -- but joining that nonsense about the Holodomor   just shows what a complete and utter idiot you are.

Summary says Soviet propaganda-- but clearly RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA. There has been a mountain of material posted on this forum   about the Holodomor in UKRAINE and the act of genocide against the people of Ukraine.

Denial of the Holodomor

Denial of the Holodomor is the assertion that the 1932–1933 Holodomor, a man-made[1] famine in Soviet Ukraine,[2] did not occur[3][4][5][6] or diminishing the scale and significance of the famine.[7] This denial and suppression of information about the famine was made in official Soviet propaganda from the very beginning until the 1980s.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on September 23, 2019, 01:06:20 AM
Are the Kuban or Smolenskaya oblast in Ukraine, JayH?

I only ask as one of Russian partner's Grandparents were from these parts of RUSSIA and also suffered extreme hunger, hardship property confiscation during the same period...

The 'Holodomour' was NOT confined to what is modern day Ukraine..though that SSR was the worst effected.

'Foolish' is your near constant copying and pasting of stuff without checking authenticity or suggesting 'untruths' when you simply prove you are clueless.

I am simply pointing out that not only Ukrainians suffered..adding sawdust to bulk out potato mash.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2019, 06:25:26 AM
jayH, WTF man?
were you were staring at the toilette flushing in the wrong direction again?

Mobers is 100% correct, Holodomor, was very prevalent in southern Russia
but in Russia, we pronounce it Golodomor

at the same time, Stalin had another mass starvation under way primarily in Russia
that involved shutting down factories which resulted in workers losing their ration cards
and sharing the same fate

mobers wasn't denying holodomor, horrosho
but you were SAYING he was
which is a VERY old Soviet "trick"

very clever...
but, not clever enough.....

jayh, why do you beg us to beat you all the time?
I assume you're a masochist and you enjoy our torment
why else would you come here and make these pitiful embarrassing attempts to challenge us
which ALWAYS end in your complete and total humiliation
please tell me the undoubtedly sad and tragic tale of WHY do you keep doing this

i'm all ooshkie cobber!
start from the beginning...



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 23, 2019, 12:07:27 PM
No, Holodomor was coined for, and is used specifically for the mass murder of millions of Ukrainian peasants.  It is restricted to starvation in Ukraine, Kuban, and the Don region.  All these regions were, at the time, populated predominantly by ethnic Ukrainians.  The term "Holodomor" was first used by diaspora Ukrainians.

There were other regions that suffered collectivization and mass starvation as well, including the Northern Caucasus, the Volga Region, the South Urals, Western Siberia, and Kazakhstan.  All of these areas also were heavily populated by ethnic Ukrainians, although they are not part of the Holodomor. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2019, 02:15:09 PM
the Golodomor was a part of the wider Soviet famine of 1932–33...
it was a part of the same “greater” famine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333

anyway, what everyone in Russia tells me is that it’s all propaganda spread by provokateurs
because Stalin was a strong leader, strong like stalnoy, who saved the Soviet Union from Fascism...
and strong leaders are good!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 23, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
No, the Holodomor is specific to the regions I mentioned.  There are hundreds of scholarly articles written on this, many of which describe the event as a genocide of the Ukrainian people.  I am not certain it was an intended as a genocide, my views on this have fluctuated, but at this time, there is no definitive proof, historically, one way or the other. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2019, 07:09:50 PM
I suspect that to the victims, our opinions are of absolutely no importance...
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 23, 2019, 08:27:06 PM
Hmm, I'm not so certain.  I've known dozens of victims, some of whom are still alive.  The attitude toward the event differs among those who stayed in Ukraine, and diaspora survivors.  However, the acknowledgment and remembrance of their suffering is something that resonates with them.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 23, 2019, 10:04:27 PM
Wife tells of ancestors who survived Holodomor by eating mostly honey and onions.
Those who came to confiscate grains, potatoes, vegetables, fruits and any other food didn't bother with the onions and didn't know about the honey.

They also went to railroad tracks because sometimes passengers would throw them pieces of bread.

Each time the confiscators came to take any grains, etc., they would exclaim . . .

"Why are you still alive!!"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 24, 2019, 05:27:53 AM
I admit to a sloppy linguistic practice of affixing my own unique labels to things...
I don't call school shootings, "School Shootings", I call them"Columbines"
same thing with Russian famines....
I don't call it "The Great Soviet Famine of 1932-1933" which the Golodomor was a part of...
I just call it Golodomor, sloppy, yes, I know....
apologies for any hurt feelings   

famines
pogroms
war
genocide
financial collapse

let the good times roll Ukraine


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 24, 2019, 12:55:53 PM
It's Holodomor.  The letter "ґ" was removed from the Ukrainian alphabet under Soviet policies of Russification, replaced by the Russian "г" sound.  In Ukrainian, "г" has an "h" sound, not a "g" sound.  Russified Ukrainians don't know this either. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 24, 2019, 01:29:00 PM
oichen manoga things Russified Ukrainians don't know, eta pravda!!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 26, 2019, 10:57:19 AM
Distinguished President, Your Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen!

On behalf of Ukraine, I congratulate you, Mr. President, on having been elected President of the 74th session of the UN General Assembly. Ukraine supports the implementation of all ambitious priorities of this year's Assembly.

Let us be honest, everyone present here has different interests, views, values and problems. But there is one thing that unites us all. Each of you, ladies and gentlemen, had the first speech from this rostrum.

Please recall your feelings at that moment. Every one of you, respected and honored today, was once a beginner yet a sincere world politician. And then, a cocktail of pragmatism, skepticism and harsh geopolitical reality has not yet managed to quench your passion, romanticism and unwavering belief that the world can be changed for the better.

Remember how important it was to tell the problems and troubles of your country and your people to the world back then. How important it was to be heard.

I have the same feelings today.

Let me tell you one story. The story of a person for whom "being heard" has become the meaning of life. For this man had a divine voice. He was called one of the best baritones and countertenors in the world. His voice was heard at Carnegie Hall in New York, Notre Dame Cathedral, Covent Garden in London and Grand Opera in Paris. Each of you could have personally heard his incredible singing. But unfortunately, there is one thing that will not allow you to do so. I’ll show you. It looks like this. 12.7 millimeters that not only stopped his career, but also stopped his life. It costs 10 dollars. And, unfortunately, today on our planet it is the value of human life.

There are thousands of such stories, millions of such bullets. Welcome to the XXI century. A century of opportunities. Where instead of "being heard" you have an opportunity to be killed.

The name of the man I’ve told you about was Wassyl Slipak. He was a Ukrainian, a soloist of the Paris National Opera who was killed in Donbas defending Ukraine from the Russian aggression.

The war in Donbas has already lasted five years and five years have passed since Russia annexed the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea. Despite the existence of international law and hundreds of organizations designed to defend it, our country defends its own sovereignty and territorial integrity with weapons in its hands and losing its citizens.

More than 13 thousand people killed. 30 thousand wounded. One and a half million people were forced to leave their homes. Every year, these monstrous numbers are heard here, but with one correction - every year these numbers get bigger.

The end of the war, the return of all the occupied Ukrainian territories and the prevailing of peace are my tasks. But not at the cost of our citizens' lives, not at the cost of freedom or the right of Ukraine to its own choice.

That is why we need the support of the world. I understand: everyone present here has their own state concern and other people's problems should not worry you more than your own. But in today's world, where we live, there is no longer someone else’s war. None of you can feel safe when there is a war in Ukraine, when there is a war in Europe.

And it can be fatal to think that this does not concern you and will never affect you. You can't think of the global and close your eyes to the details or, as it may seem, even trifles. Because that's how the foundation for the two world wars was laid. And tens of millions of human lives became the price of inattention, silence, inaction or unwillingness to sacrifice one's ambitions. Have humanity started to forget these dreadful lessons of history?

Ukraine remembers them. And Ukraine has always demonstrated its willingness to provide peace in a civilized way. And took steps towards international security. For example, when it gave up its nuclear capability, which at the time was larger than in the UK, France and China combined.

Because it seemed to us that we were all building a different, new world. Where you do not need to have a nuclear weapon to be heard. Where you will be respected for deeds, not for nuclear warheads.

After all, in this "new" world, our country has lost part of its territories and is losing its citizens almost daily.

That is why, if not Ukraine than who has the right to speak today about the need to rethink and revise current world rules?

Of course, we do not question the authority of international institutions, in particular the United Nations. But we must admit that the mechanisms are not flawless. They start failing and therefore need an update

United Nations. But let's be honest - are nations really united today? And even if so, what exactly unites them?

Disasters and wars.

We always hear calls for fair change, just promises, announcement of new initiatives from this highest platform in the world. It is time to make sure that they are always backed by real deeds. Because in the modern world, where the human life costs 10 dollars, words have been devalued long ago.

Let us remember the goal of the UN’s establishment in 1945? To maintain and strengthen peace and international security. But what shall we do when the very basis of international security is at stake?

For any war today - in Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Yemen or any other corner of the planet, regardless of the number of casualties - is the greatest threat to the entire civilization. Because in 2019, homo sapiens still resolves conflicts by killing. Throughout its existence, humanity has been constantly finding new ways to overcome distance, transfer information, cure diseases.

And only one thing remains unchanged: contradictions between nations and states are still resolved not by words, but by missiles.

Not by word. But by war.

Don't think that war is far away. Its methods, technology and weapons have made our planet not so big anymore. And today, the time I spent on the last paragraph is enough to destroy the Earth completely.

This means that each leader is responsible not only for the fate of his own country, but also for the fate of the whole world. In my opinion, we all need to realize that a strong leader is not the one who, without batting an eyelid, sends thousands of soldiers to death. A strong leader is the one who protects everyone's life.

Now let us answer ourselves - what do our meetings give to humanity? If for someone it is only a political theater where they play a role and declare light intentions, which are then crossed out by dark actions?

It's not just a rostrum. And not a scene. And seven and a half billion inhabitants of the planet are not just spectators, but direct participants in real life. The basics of this life scenario are laid here. And today it depends on everyone present whether it will be life at all.

Honestly, I would really like to call this speech “15 minutes that changed the world”. But I am well aware that changing something that has existed for thousands of years is simply impossible in 15 minutes. And behavioral theories say that war is an integral part of human nature. But the world is changing and people are changing with it. And if we once learned writing, mathematics, invented the wheel, penicillin and conquered space, humanity still has a chance.

Being aware of danger for civilization, we must generate other meanings. And fight for a new human mentality where aggression, anger and hatred will be atrophied feelings.

Ladies and Gentlemen! On this day, September 25, Erich Maria Remarque died. And 90 years ago the world saw his novel “All Quiet on the Western Front”. I recall the words from its preface: "This is an attempt to tell about a generation crippled by war. About those who fell victim to it, even fleeing shells". And 90 years ago the world saw another novel. It's Ernest Hemingway's "A Farewell to Arms". Here's a quote from it: “War cannot be won by victories. The one who wins the war never stops fighting…”.

The world must remember: every next crippled generation is a path to a new war. Which is impossible, just impossible to win with victories.

Someone says now: “There will be no World War III. It will be the last one”. I hope this phrase is an awareness of the threat to the planet, not an announcement.

Thank you!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on September 27, 2019, 04:41:06 PM
The former actor continues to impress me.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2019, 04:49:43 PM
Why are you impressed by someone who has installed all of Kolomoisky's people to the levers of power in Ukraine?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JayH on September 27, 2019, 04:59:16 PM
Why are you impressed by someone who has installed all of Kolomoisky's people to the levers of power in Ukraine?


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Like too much in this world-it is about compromise (s)
He is doing a lot right --he has the peoples mandate and needs to run with it.

His handling of Trump was outstanding -- sucking up and not offending in a really tricky situation for him and Ukraine.

That said --I  am thinking so far so good-- but I want to see real results and reforms.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 27, 2019, 06:05:18 PM
"the former actor continues to impress me."

what do you mean "former"?

seriously, how do you rob 5 billion dollars from a country the size of Ukraine (kolomoisky/privatbank)...
and not only do you NOT go to jail!!!
but instead, the government bails out the bank
AND GIVES IT BACK TO YOU AGAIN!!!!!

CHIVO bela malchick?
what cho talkin 'bout Willis?

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2019, 08:21:25 PM
Like too much in this world-it is about compromise (s)
He is doing a lot right --he has the peoples mandate and needs to run with it.

His handling of Trump was outstanding -- sucking up and not offending in a really tricky situation for him and Ukraine.

That said --I  am thinking so far so good-- but I want to see real results and reforms.


Zelensky is there to enrich himself, just like all the other past presidents.


The only person who truly knows what he wants is Kolomoisky.  He now controls the SBU.  He is trying to legalize his wealth, which is why he returned from exile in Israel, where he couldn't be extradited back to Ukraine. 


There was a photo last week of a meeting of Zelensky and his top ministers, with Kolomoisky beside Zelensky, like the cat that just ate the canary.  I am not optimistic.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 07, 2019, 08:12:18 AM
Dear Readers!


Ukraine is not dead yet!!
but...
Molly K. McKew  says we oughta call a Priest...

so don't y'all forget now! Donbas coal is gonna be called Novo Russiya coal in about another year or so...
please make all the necessary changes to your lexicons, spossiba!

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/06/putin-trump-zelensky-phone-call-229243

told y'all this was comin' now didn't I?

and now from Krimster Maps prepared especially for our esteemed Readers!


this map well help our Dear Readers familiarize themselves with the pipelines BEFORE they start hearing about them on the news!!!

Say What?
the latest scuttlebut is shutting off gas to Ukraine at the end of 2020....
Ukraine can re-route some gas from Poland and Romania, but only get about 50% of it's needs
and it would lose 3 billion/yr in gas transit fees, plus hundreds of millions in stolen gas, all lost...
that transit fee represents 3% of GDP, shutting off 50% gas supply could shrink the economy another 20% in a matter of months....

then....

PrivatBank and the NBU implode!!!!

then...

oh...
and Right Sector is planning a coup at this very moment while the anti-capitulation protests are going on!!!!

Putin is already at the 50% point for launching "The Operation" the biggest use of military force by Russia since WWII to liberate Kiev from fascists....
biggest variable is Trump...
and fear of a Democratic Presidential backlash

Ukraine military is so weak in the East, that if Russia launched a full attack the size of its last military exercise against Ukraine...
it would be 24 hours at most before Kyiv and ODESSA (the main target!) fell....

GUESS WHAT???

In a couple of more years, y'all are gonna be spelling Kiev again!!!!!!
ahahahahahahahahaha


average age of Ukrainian soldier in the East is 40!!!!
young Ukrainians are NOT signing up for this war!!!!
there's almost NO support among the young...
EXCEPT...
for the "battalions"

BUT...
the GRU assassinated its military leader to replace him with a pro-Russian puppet
and Zelensky used him to withdraw all the battalions from Novo Russiya
now Zelensky has agreed to hand over Novo Russiya to Russia...

so Novo Russiya will either end up like Transnistria or be eventually incorporated into Russian territory like Georgia in 2008 and Crimea in 2014
either way, huge step forward for Putin!!!!
BUT, I don't believe this will be the end of the story...
DO YOU?
ahahahahahaha!!!!!

I told y'all that Putin was the rude beast slouching towards Bethlehem, would you see it...
because, folks, he ain't gonna stop after Ukraine....
in 2024, they make him king...
Emperor of The Russian Federation
and he founds a new state recognized  aristocratic class based on hereditary oligarchy
he does this to gain the votes in the Duma to be king
and everyone in "all the Russias" bow down to their new lords and masters

foreigners in Ukraine, you'd best be gone before the shooting starts...
because when it does, all air and rail will be shutdown on the first day...

please find one of the safety passes that are posted on walls and billboards
and present it and yourself to the nearest anti-fascist coalition soldier
please remember to have your passport handy









Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 14, 2019, 10:19:56 AM
dear Readers!

do not be distracted by all the press in the Western Media a few weeks from now about the meeting between Jarred Kushner, Rick Perry and Ukraine President Zelensky in Brussels...

it’s a distraction....
but...
when it’s revealed that it was the USA that pressured Zelensky for the Steinmeier formula
and then later it will be revealed that Putin pushed Trump to do this...
it will further undermine Ukrainian popular support for Zelensky...

BUT...
the MOST IMPORTANT thing is happening this week in Kyiv!!!
yeah Kyiv!!!!

this week a judge will decide if kolomoisky has Privat Bank returned to him...
this is WHAT’S IMPORTANT!
because Putin’s plan will ONLY work if kolomoisky has the bank returned to him...

and once again, I gotta say, "Putin is a gawd damned genuis"!

http://www.kyivpost.com/business/lawyers-say-judge-hearing-privatbank-case-heavily-biased-in-favor-of-kolomoisky.html

since it’s pretty much a done deal...
then I guess everyone will just have to take kolomoisky's word that he won’t start looting Privat Bank or the NBU next month...

BUT...
if he does, then it’s one step away from “GAME OVER!” for Ukraine....
to save it from fascism that erupts in the chaos of economic collapse
oh the horrors being perpetrated by Russian paid titushki and prvocateurs...

AND THE BEAUTY OF IT!!!!
NO RESCUE WILL BE COMING FROM THE WEST this time!!!....

UKRAINE IS JUST LAYING THERE, WAITING FOR PUTIN TO TAKE IT!!!!!

HE’S COMING!!!!

the recent exercise showed that Russian units were mixed in with an exercise that took place on the Belarus border with Ukraine...

see the helpful diagram
=================================================================
ATTENTION! EVERYONE TO GET FROM STREET!

In the case of anti-fascist liberation forces coming to your neighborhood in Ukraine and you’re a Western tourist, I’d recommend the following:

Forget about trying to leave, airports, rail, major roads will all be shutdown in the first few hours.
The border cross-points will be dangerous because many will be mined and booby trapped...
So stay put!!!

I would have your suitcase packed and be ready to quickly evacuate.....
if you have a passport, hold it clearly in your hand and approach the nearest anti-fascist coalition soldier and you will be safely escorted to your embassy

in the case of heavy artillery attacks DO NOT shelter inside Ukrainian apartments, especially basements, they’re death traps, it’ll be months before someone will dig your body out...
instead, scout around in the immediate vicinity where you live for an emergency bunker, like a drain-pipe for instance...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: jone on October 14, 2019, 10:44:06 AM
Can I put my pop-up Ukrainian doll in my suitcase?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 14, 2019, 05:01:05 PM
what I'd certainly DO if I were you man, I mean if you TRULY care....
is go to a welding shop that does TIG welding and score a small tank of helium for about $100 or so...
inflate your seks kukla with the helium...
and just LET HER GO MAN!!!!
LET HER BE FREE!!!!!

do this and you will be soaring in the clouds with her
set your seks kukla free....

We got seks kuklas in the corn flour, seks kuklas in the corn
seks kuklas in the bedroom,  seks kuklas in the barn
We got seks kuklas drivin' Cadillacs to Washington Dee Sea
When I set my seks kuklas free

yeeee- haaaaaaa!!!!

now speakin just for me and some people from Tennessee
we got a thing or two to tell ya'll
this lady may have stumbled, but she ain't NEVER fell!
and if the RUSSIANS, they don't like it...
they can all go STRAIGHT TO HELL!

hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! dumb phuque Yankees got PLAYED!!!!
hard to imagine anyone dumber...
they STILL haven't caught on to the CON!!!
but they will SOON learn about it....
but OOPS!!!
too late!!!!
hahahahahaha!!!





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 17, 2019, 07:08:50 AM
today the court in Kyiv deferred its finding to this instead
case No. 826/7432/17

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-economy/2707462-nbu-appeals-against-court-decision-about-illegality-of-privatbanks-nationalization.html

IMF negotiation with Ukraine has ALREADY failed because of this....
this is already a firm win for Putin against Ukraine...

the public mood in Kyiv is tense and anxious even now....
a lotta anti-capitualtion protests been goin on you see...


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on October 17, 2019, 08:38:28 AM
today the court in Kyiv deferred its finding to this instead
case No. 826/7432/17

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-economy/2707462-nbu-appeals-against-court-decision-about-illegality-of-privatbanks-nationalization.html

IMF negotiation with Ukraine has ALREADY failed because of this....
this is already a firm win for Putin against Ukraine...

the public mood in Kyiv is tense and anxious even now....
a lotta anti-capitualtion protests been goin on you see...

Krimster,

When is the case against the Russian arm of Privatbank ? ;)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 17, 2019, 10:05:45 AM
B&N Bank acquired 100 percent of Moskomprivatbank's shares from Ukrainian PrivatBank

Moskomprivatbank has an estimated value of $168 million, which includes a subordinated loan.

B&N Bank received a $336 million loan from Deposit Insurance Agency to maintain Moskomprivatbank's liquidity and implement a project related to the creation of the credit institution's independent information technology infrastructure.

The Central Bank of the Russian Federation also approved the rehabilitation procedure of Moskomprivatbank, under which B&N Bank will act as an acquirer. The Central Bank imposed temporary administration on Moskomprivatbank in March, at which point DIA was assigned as Moskomprivatbank's temporary administrator.

Moskomprivatbank shareholders will elect new governing bodies during an upcoming general meeting. Control will be carried out under B&N Bank's control after new governing bodies are elected.



as you can see from this recent video, Americans are just about able to see what's ACTUALLY going on now....
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-ukraine-scandal-spawns-counterintelligence-investigation-71442501867

and remember, I told ya'll here, before the whistle blower story was public...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 05, 2019, 09:15:53 AM
so when y’all see groups of smiling Russian soldiers takin selfies on Potemkin Stairs...
that’s the time when I’ll be making my next trip to Odessa as well...
now remember tovarish , don't forget to say, "spossiba veteran" on Victory Day, horrosho!

I have my eye on a kino studio there, but UNFORTUNATELY I am not high enough in the organizatsiya to be “allowed” to buy it....

technically, at the moment, I’m a nobody, cuz I ain’t a citizen of the Russian Federation...
I’m just a “consultant” who works “pod stolom”....
most of the time, I figure out an angle to make money so that it doesn’t come out of my patron’s pocket...
he tends to appreciate the thoughtfulness of this approach...

but in a couple of years, I WILL be a Russian citizen...
AND I will even be allowed to change my name to a new Russian sounding name...
I will essentially have a new identity thanks to the Russian government!!!!
spossiba bolshoi!

so in order to get the studio, I’ve had to bring it to the attention of my patron
and offer him a partnership in it...
I knew he’d be interested because he has a daughter the same age as one of mine...

he has the judicial and United Russia and FSB connections to just grab the company outright in court... and this is basically what he will do, file a bogus law suit and then seize the company from its Ukrainian owners in the new Russian property court, we will just be one of a thousand similar cases...
we each have to put into escrow the amount needed to cover all the payoff costs, which totals $500,000.... not too bad for a company worth 10 million.....
but...
right after this happens, we will have to make a large payment to a special Russian “Rare Violin” purchase program through an offshore bank in Latvia....
AND THEN, I will be part owner, and give myself a vice presidency position...
but...
I am also hoping to “piggyback” my own side deal on top of this through the same process...
for getting 80 hecters of land that borders the Akkerman fortress south of Odessa...
and build the Villa Del Krimster there....
and if I’m successful in making all the connections for doing the side deal, then I'll just be doing more and more..

this is how I am laying the foundation for my future family dynasty in Russia...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: jone on December 05, 2019, 09:26:27 AM
What a fanciful tale.   Imagine, dividing the war spoils before the war. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on December 05, 2019, 09:29:26 AM

he has the judicial and political and FSB connections to just grab the company outright in court... and this is basically what he will do, file a bogus law suit and then seize the company from its Ukrainian owners in the new Russian property court, we will just be one of a thousand similar cases...

And you will be able to look your daughters in the face !!  ??
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 05, 2019, 09:37:21 AM
"And you will be able to look your daughters in the face !!  ??"




this WAS ALL MY OLDEST DAUGHTER'S IDEA IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

this is how BIZNESS gets done in Russia moy droog...
if it wasn't me, it'd just be someone else doin it...

we live part-time in Russia now...
so I teach my daughters to be as hard as nails and as "cut-throat" as they can be...




"What a fanciful tale.   Imagine, dividing the war spoils before the war.  "

it's ALWAYS done this way... it's not as ad-hoc as you think...
everyone in Russia knows what's coming for Ukraine at the end of next year...
that's all the GazProm execs talked about at my home during Thanksgiving...



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: jone on December 05, 2019, 12:25:44 PM
Wonder how all of those tanks will enjoy meeting the Javelin missiles that the US just provided Ukraine?   Absent a full scale war, including air bombardments, Putin will not have his way.   And if Putin does proceed with an all-out war, then Ukraine will have significant support from the US and European allies.   

Personally,  I think ole Krimster is smoking the whacky weed.  We've heard his predictions like this before.   But I've always noticed his political prognostications do not, typically, come through.   My guess is that the first thing NATO countries would do to an all out war by Russia and against Ukraine is that they would turn off the oil spigots from Russia and let Russia choke on their own bile.   Europe has had five years, now, to prepare for Russian belligerence.    Russia is, after all, a third world country with a big gas can.  And the Europeans know all too well about allowing other European countries the ability to make war on their neighbors.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 05, 2019, 02:40:19 PM
Trump supporters say the dumbest stuff ever...
a Javelin will never be launched in Ukraine...
half of Ukraine's military will surrender the first day...

North Stream was done with Europe's cooperation, just so this could happen...
Europe is switching to Russia....
Putin controls ALL the pipelines to Europe, it's why he's in Syria...
Putin will call Trump and tell him what to do and say when he takes Ukraine just like all the OTHER CALLS...
Russian mob is already moving into Odessa and displacing Ukrainian one...
your president is done now and on borrowed time, Putin KNOWS EXACTLY how long Trump will be in Office
and Trump's last day is Putin's deadline for taking Ukraine...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: jone on December 05, 2019, 02:46:59 PM
Perhaps you've only been reading your own posts.   I am castigated on this forum because I do NOT support Trump.  But then, your head has not been seen for a long time on this forum.   It disappeared a long time ago.   But we know where it is.  Why don't you pull it outta there?

I find it absolutely amazing that you support the fringe liberal element here in the United States, but when you walk off the plane in Russia you turn all radically ultra conservative despot supporter.   And yet, you see no disparity between the two positions.    :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 05, 2019, 04:15:27 PM
“Why don't you pull it outta there?”


yeah, you’re right...
my wife and her GF have had enough...
BUT...
now, it's my turn, oh boy oh boy....

"And yet, you see no disparity between the two positions."

nothing to do with ideology
my only ideal in Russia is to make money...
and it's an incredible place for that!!!

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on December 09, 2019, 05:53:12 PM

Ukraine and Russia has meeting in Paris and agree to ceasefire among other things before end of 2019.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-russia-agree-on-full-ceasefire-in-east-ukraine-before-2019-end-communique/ar-BBY0n2s?ocid=spartanntp
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 09, 2019, 08:00:35 PM
ever hear of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact...
you don't think Russia would EVER do something like that again do you?
isn't the treaty a great cover story for when you DO invade....
do you know that 7% of Ukraine's territory IS ALREADY under Russian occupation....

if you're a foreigner in Ukraine
just remember this...
when you hear that Russia has cut off the gas to Ukraine....
RUN!!!! FORREST RUN!!!!

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on December 09, 2019, 08:41:59 PM

do you know that 7% of Ukraine's territory IS ALREADY under Russian occupation....



Most of us do .. it's just the Kremlin that suggests, otherwise .... ;)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 18, 2019, 05:53:18 PM
ever hear of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact...
you don't think Russia would EVER do something like that again do you?
isn't the treaty a great cover story for when you DO invade....
do you know that 7% of Ukraine's territory IS ALREADY under Russian occupation....

if you're a foreigner in Ukraine
just remember this...
when you hear that Russia has cut off the gas to Ukraine....
RUN!!!! FORREST RUN!!!!

Do you think it will amount to a prelude to invasion? rather than just an economic war?

According to the map in this article Ukraine doesn't buy Gas of Russia, I think they couldn't afford it and were behind in payments & Russia cut them off for aligning themselves too closely to the west/EU. So now it is just used to carry gas to Europe in exchange for a carrier fee. I'm guessing this is more than the trouble of paying Ukraine a carrier fee even if the carrier fee is worth a bit to Ukraine.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-12-18/u-s-concedes-defeat-on-nord-stream-2-pipeline-officials-say

What do you think the EU's/Germany's response will be if Russia invade Ukraine, will they trade embargo the gas coming through to Germany from Russia? Trade Embargo on a larger scale? Visa restrictions? Or not much that amounts to anything at all?

Or will Russia just leave Ukraine to wallow in it having outlived their usefulness to Russia?

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 18, 2019, 06:53:21 PM
the pipeline was built BECAUSE of the invasion
if Trump can't get sanctions reversed, than Putin has NO OTHER choice than to seize Ukraine...
but he needs to wait a bit more...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 22, 2019, 03:52:55 PM
http://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/world/europe/russia-gas-export-pipeline-in-jeopardy-as-trump-signs-sanctions-bill-1576925827?amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: msmob on January 11, 2020, 01:48:14 AM
Trench,

Tell us about the Gas pipe that crosses under the Black Sea and via Turkey and Bulgaria that means Gazprom don't have to pay transit fees to Ukraine for 13 billion cubic metres ...?


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-08/russia-opens-natural-gas-link-to-turkey-amid-u-s-opposition (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-08/russia-opens-natural-gas-link-to-turkey-amid-u-s-opposition)


Google failed you as you THOUGHT you knew !


Mind you there'll soon be another pipeline delivering Azerbaijan's  gas to GR., Italy etc.,

Turkey is be the new Ukraine re being a key nation re transiting gas routes and distribution... 

Turkey and RU need to remain fwends





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on February 02, 2021, 11:41:35 AM
International investigation into Ukraine war crimes
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/international-investigation-into-ukraine-war-crimes-is-kremlins-worst-nightmare/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on February 02, 2021, 08:24:44 PM
I am sure the women of Luhansk are grateful that Putin saved them from my advances. :wallbash:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2021, 05:58:46 AM
So yes following on from comments on the other thread it seems that an invasion force may be building on Ukraines border and who knows an invasion may be imminent:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/02/biden-calls-ukrainian-president-show-support-amid-russia-military/amp/

Fortunately Biden has made a 'phone call' so I'm sure all will be fine lol.

We've been here a year or two back when it looked like Russian tanks might start rolling down Kiev's city roads. So who knows if anything will come of it this time.

This time the virus will have seen of most foreigners from Ukraine so not as much chance they'll be caught up in the cross fire and so provoke further outcry from the west. The Russian economy I hear is soon to go into deficit so maybe a take over of Ukraine will provide the resources it needs. Historically Russia no doubt sees Ukraine as part of its territory and indeed it's history. I would be surprised if Russia would just amass tanks and troops at its border without reason as it must cost a lot of money & bother to organise it all and if for no reason?

I think Biden is seen as weaker than Trump so Putin may be a bit opportunist here. It would be a pain for Ukraine to go as then I would have to pay for a visa so I'm just sitting tight and hoping all will be well :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 03, 2021, 07:54:08 AM
An estimated 4,000 Russian troops have been deployed to the border with Ukraine, according to the New York Times, citing an unnamed U.S. official. The paper also reported that in response to the troop buildup, the U.S. military’s European Command has raised its alert level to its highest setting — “potential imminent crisis.”

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Thursday that 20 Ukrainian servicemen have been killed so far in 2021 — including four earlier this week in the deadliest single confrontation for months — and another 57 injured.

Four Ukrainian servicemen were killed and seven injured in fighting earlier this week, the most deadly military incident in the conflict so far this year.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/02/ukraine-says-russia-massing-troops-on-border-us-warns-moscow-a73448

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/02/explainer-why-are-tensions-between-russia-and-ukraine-ratcheting-up-a73457
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2021, 09:36:34 AM
An estimated 4,000 Russian troops have been deployed to the border with Ukraine, according to the New York Times, citing an unnamed U.S. official. The paper also reported that in response to the troop buildup, the U.S. military’s European Command has raised its alert level to its highest setting — “potential imminent crisis.”

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Thursday that 20 Ukrainian servicemen have been killed so far in 2021 — including four earlier this week in the deadliest single confrontation for months — and another 57 injured.

Four Ukrainian servicemen were killed and seven injured in fighting earlier this week, the most deadly military incident in the conflict so far this year.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/02/ukraine-says-russia-massing-troops-on-border-us-warns-moscow-a73448

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/02/explainer-why-are-tensions-between-russia-and-ukraine-ratcheting-up-a73457

You mean the Moscow Times not New York Times ;)

I read that but think they'll be wanting to go in with way more than 4,000 troops so I reckon that's either an early build up figure or inaccurate as from Moscow.

This article in the Mirror seems to give a pretty good idea of how it's likely to go down:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fears-grow-war-month-after-23847274.amp

So they reckon by around early May it'll all be in position attacking from the Black Sea, Normandy landing style to hit Ukraine in the South and thereby avoid the risk of getting their forces hemmed in and stuck moving up the narrow Crimean peninsula. At the same time they'll move in from the North of Ukraine to get behind Ukrainian forces fighting in the East of Ukraine, cut them off and surround them. They could also try to move up the Crimean peninsula and push forward in the Donbass also if they find they need to put extra pressure on Ukrainian forces.

My guess is that by now Kherson girl is deeply regretting not getting with Yours truly as who knows how badly the Ukrainian people may fair in all off this.

The article speculates whether this may escalate into a pan European or World War. I personally doubt it, I think if the invasion goes ahead Ukrainians will be left to their fate. I can't see Biden getting involved nor the EU. Ukraine is not a member of the EU nor NATO so they'll likely duck out of it. Now that Ukraine is becoming surrounded the only route for help to come will be through the EU/western Ukraine and I very much doubt they'll get any help there. At most the response will very likely be more Sanctions on Russia and Russia will take Ukraine. It's generally the most logical thing to do. I think Russia mainly sees taking Ukraine as taking back it's historical territory. I don't think they'll try it on with EU member states. Possibly Georgia may come after, Belarus is pretty much in their pocket anyway so that will be about it I reckon.

Whether this will mean a new iron curtain and an end to us western guys going to the FSU for women who knows, could be in jeopardy it's looking.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 04, 2021, 01:56:04 AM
This news article takes a different view arguing that it is more to put pressure on Ukraine, the US, etc and to test US resolve to see if they will back Ukraine much or leave it to it's own devices:

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/ukraine-does-not-expect-russian-attack-in-donbas/2197483#

I'm not so sure, it may be a little uncertain how far the US, NATO and the west may back Ukraine but I believe Krimster was right when he said the last military manoeuvres were to test reaction of Ukraine, etc. This time I doubt it unless they are going to come back later for a third time but this time seems as good an opportunity as any. The virus will keep a lot of foreigners away including flights etc plus it means Ukraine is weaker because of it at the moment. It also means because of lockdown most people will be indoors anyway so potentially less civilian risk to life as essentially Putin will still want a functioning populated area.

I think whatever is said in the west at the end of the day won't amount to real support on the ground. Only western troops being moved into Ukraine would support any real intention to help Ukraine in my opinion and I don't see that happening. If it did Russia would have to decide whether it would attack and almost certainly spark a pan European or World War conflict or leave it be. I think he would be more likely to leave it be in that case but I don't think the west will want to risk being drawn into a major conflict by posting troops to Ukraine.

In fairness to be honest I don't think Ukraine is worth risking a pan-European or World War over, territory changes hand all the time throughout history but the places and the land remain. It would be a shame for us guys to see Ukraine go as a country but I don't think it's worth a World War or similar over, the loss of human life would be too high a price to pay for that I believe. We would just have to come to accept that things may be different there in future I believe.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Shadow on April 04, 2021, 03:59:30 AM

In fairness to be honest I don't think Ukraine is worth risking a pan-European or World War over, territory changes hand all the time throughout history but the places and the land remain. It would be a shame for us guys to see Ukraine go as a country but I don't think it's worth a World War or similar over, the loss of human life would be too high a price to pay for that I believe. We would just have to come to accept that things may be different there in future I believe.
Russia probably has the same opinion. With Crimea they have their Black Sea port, which is the main thing they need to keep.The rest of the country would mainly be a burden on about al resources.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 04, 2021, 06:52:22 AM
Russia probably has the same opinion. With Crimea they have their Black Sea port, which is the main thing they need to keep.The rest of the country would mainly be a burden on about al resources.

I'm not so sure, if they took Ukraine it would give them a more direct route to Crimea. On a resources side of thing the East of Ukraine is more industrial, coal in the disputed region, tank factory around Kharkiv and Shipbuilding and sea trade routes around Nikoleav, Kherson & Mariupol. The west of Ukraine is agricultural so of some use but is likely where most resistance would grow up in the form of freedom fighting terrorist style of group.

Personally I would like to see Ukraine remain but it looks possible that Putin may invade particularly if no foreign power comes to Ukraine's aid. Ukraine is kind of hanging out there a bit as it's not in the EU nor NATO. I personally don't like the idea of it joining the EU as the EU tends to make countries dry boring places by getting them to follow all their many rules. On the other hand Ukraine is kind of exposed by itself. Georgia is about the only other country in Ukraine's position and in itself is too small & weak to offer Ukraine any meaningful help. It's why I think all of the breakaway republics should have formed their own separate Union/Organisation when they broke away from Russia/Soviet Union in the first place I think.

Anyway, will probably just have to wait and see what developments happen I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 04, 2021, 09:22:24 AM
I think if there is a large invasion of Ukraine by uniformed regular Russian Army personnel, there will develop a very large non-military resistance force that will inflict substantial pain on the Russian soldiers.

Over time, that pain may become too large for the Russian public to accept it.

Now just why this resistance did not develop in Crimea . . . I don't have a good answer other than fact that well over half of Crimea was populated by ethnic Russian folks.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Shadow on April 04, 2021, 11:22:06 PM
I'm not so sure, if they took Ukraine it would give them a more direct route to Crimea. On a resources side of thing the East of Ukraine is more industrial, coal in the disputed region, tank factory around Kharkiv and Shipbuilding and sea trade routes around Nikoleav, Kherson & Mariupol. The west of Ukraine is agricultural so of some use but is likely where most resistance would grow up in the form of freedom fighting terrorist style of group.

As Ukraininan politicians have been ore interested in filling their pockets than developing their country, anything there is outdated and would need large investments to get up to date.Russia would not put in effort to get a possible war conflict for a country that has little to offer and would at least partially remain rebellious.
As for Ukraine joining the EU, it will be a long time. Only when country like Bulgaria and Romania and the Baltcs have their population up to a higher standard new cheap labour will be needed. At that time a country like Ukraine would be the new source of cheap laour.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2021, 03:07:59 AM
As Ukraininan politicians have been ore interested in filling their pockets than developing their country, anything there is outdated and would need large investments to get up to date.Russia would not put in effort to get a possible war conflict for a country that has little to offer and would at least partially remain rebellious.
As for Ukraine joining the EU, it will be a long time. Only when country like Bulgaria and Romania and the Baltcs have their population up to a higher standard new cheap labour will be needed. At that time a country like Ukraine would be the new source of cheap laour.

Some good points Shadow. Difficult to judge Putin's motives some have suggested it could be more political to do with Russian elections:

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/is-putin-about-to-launch-a-new-offensive-in-ukraine/

Though I always thought they rigged them anyway. Ambition could be more territorial than economic, to look more powerful and retake strategic Black Sea ports (other than Crimea which I believe allowed them to base their fleet there prior to takeover). I think as far as the economy goes there's probably not much in it either way. Putin would almost certainly be hit by harder sanctions. On the flip side Ukraine still has some resources worthwhile but like you say they would require investment to make them worthwhile.

Russian Elections are on the 19 September 2021 so for it to help Putin out in anyway some sort of military victory would be needed before then. I think it's too early for posturing to beef up support for the elections as after months of it they would see Putin and his allies in Parliament as just full of it with no real action. So there could be a high chance of action occuring but to what extent who knows.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2021, 03:27:04 AM
I think if there is a large invasion of Ukraine by uniformed regular Russian Army personnel, there will develop a very large non-military resistance force that will inflict substantial pain on the Russian soldiers.

Over time, that pain may become too large for the Russian public to accept it.

Now just why this resistance did not develop in Crimea . . . I don't have a good answer other than fact that well over half of Crimea was populated by ethnic Russian folks.

I think it could indeed end up another Afghanistan but only if Putin tries to take the whole country. Most of the East of Ukraine was pro-Russian, Russian speaking maybe even many ethnic Russians. So there maybe less so, my guess is that it would mostly come from the west, Lviv, Odessa and probably including up to Kiev.

Putin could just try and take the Donbass Region in despute and claim it's to protect Russian citizens there, etc, etc, excuse, excuse. He would unlikely get any real internal resistance in that territory. He could try to take a bit more such as Mariupol, Kharkiv where our Japs is or even further to try to link territory up to the north of Crimea.

I think the fact that they have bothered to spend millions building a bridge from current Russian territory to Crimea might suggest that is less likely as why bother to go to that trouble unless plan changes over the years.

My guess is that he may just try to take the disputed territory and possibly a bit more such as Kharkiv & Mariupol as they are right near it so could be deemed to be disputed also. That way Putin will likely avoid a larger conflict and long term resistance forces by just confining himself to this area. Once Ukraine's forces are defeated/gives up the fight the situation he will see as sorted and another election victory for his party. As they say he seems to favour small quick wars to help electoral success.

By taking the disputed region it will make the territory both Ukraine & Russia hold a more compact front on which to base their armies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2021, 01:33:10 PM
Well, a lot of DIY stores around where I am were selling out of sand and cement over this Easter weekend. Could be people constructing Nuclear fallout shelters in case this Russian/Ukraine thing goes that way. Krim could have been right all along with an inside track on it all. Putin is an old KGB guy, cold & calculating and probably still wants to win the cold war, this he may see as his final moment to do so. At his age he probably wouldn't care if the while world went nuclear.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Shadow on April 05, 2021, 11:45:18 PM
Well, a lot of DIY stores around where I am were selling out of sand and cement over this Easter weekend. Could be people constructing Nuclear fallout shelters in case this Russian/Ukraine thing goes that way. Krim could have been right all along with an inside track on it all. Putin is an old KGB guy, cold & calculating and probably still wants to win the cold war, this he may see as his final moment to do so. At his age he probably wouldn't care if the while world went nuclear.
I see that Putin and Biden had a good talk. People in fear will band together and forget their differences.That was the main target of the Cold War.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2021, 02:07:07 AM
I see that Putin and Biden had a good talk. People in fear will band together and forget their differences.That was the main target of the Cold War.

Looks like so far the US, UK and EU are just offering their support without anything more tangible than words of comfort.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/05/eu-sounds-alarm-at-russian-troops-ukraine-border-moves

This report states that artillery has been moved from as far away as Siberia and that the build up and manoeuvres are not in line with the usual type of troop rotations.

I guess in about a months time we'll see what Putin is after.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2021, 09:36:00 PM
Latest news is that Russia may actually be far more advanced along its preparations to invade Ukraine than thought with an invasion possibly coming within days!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russia-ukraine-crisis-could-explode-23879639.amp

Stands to reason as the best time for them to be ready to attack is at the beginning off Spring as soon as the worst of the cold weather is out the way. That gives them maximum time to succeed in an invasion before Winter when the weather might make it harder. So gives most time in case of any unforeseen set backs. Scale and logistical bother make it look like Putin is serious about invading Ukraine and so a high likelihood he isn't bluffing.

Highly doubtful that western nations reassuring words will be backed up with military forces for Ukraine.

In any case Ukraine will need far more than a few plane fills of British paratroopers to make any difference, either that or they were really just sex tourists dressed up to parachute into Ukraine after too long without women ;D

Ukraine has apparently called up all its reserves but they'll likely pale in comparison to the numeracy of the Russian forces not least to say of the huge Russian hardware amassing at the border.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Shadow on April 08, 2021, 11:28:32 PM
Most successful Russian operations were in winter, as no Western military is trained to survive that long time.As for invasion plans, I guess some attempt to turn the people away from their COVID induced misery.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2021, 08:26:00 AM



Biden doesn't have the support of many Americans and is a weak President. Europe won't do anything without America. I'm not surprised Russia and China feel this is a great time for expansion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 09, 2021, 08:38:20 AM


Biden doesn't have the support of many Americans . . . .

Even excluding voting fraud . . . Joe has the voting support of 70-80 million Americans.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2021, 09:31:35 AM



There's different levels of support. In my younger days I would join the military for my country's benefit regardless if a Democrat or Republican was president. I not only think Biden is illegit, our government is also corrupt at many levels and on both sides of the political fence. I would not join the military to fight a war Biden engages in. China and Russia understand we are more split than ever. Politicians are not interested in uniting us. They certainly won't ask us to accept a court process with a jury of 12 citizens to prevent riots. Russia, China and the Democrats want to divide and conquer us. It's not going to happen overnight but it's started.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2021, 09:46:02 AM


Biden doesn't have the support of many Americans and is a weak President. Europe won't do anything without America. I'm not surprised Russia and China feel this is a great time for expansion.

I agree that Europe won't do anything without the US. The UK's army is too small to stand up to Russia's army for long so I don't see us deploying there by ourselves. It's only our nukes that keep the Russians off our soil. I don't see any mainland European army deploying there either. It would take several European nations to put up a credible force and I don't see the co-ordination or will to do that. End of the day whatever goes down in Ukraine European nations will just be glad it's not happening in their soil nor need to get involved.

Biden has to realise that he's back in the old cold war situation where he needs to counter Russia (and China) or lose allies and influence one by one. I don't get the impression he has quite fallen in yet and will likely stand helpless on the sidelines on this one.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2021, 10:48:01 AM
Most successful Russian operations were in winter, as no Western military is trained to survive that long time.As for invasion plans, I guess some attempt to turn the people away from their COVID induced misery.


Weather is not a huge factor in that particular region.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 09, 2021, 01:31:27 PM
Efforts to resolve the long-running war in Eastern Ukraine have all so far failed.
There have been ceasefires, and then, almost inevitably, violations of ceasefires.
But a major flare up in fighting between Russian-backed separatists and Ukrainian troops is now threatening to escalate the conflict beyond anything we've seen so far.
Russia is reportedly massing its troops at the border and warning NATO not to send military support to Ukraine.
But the alliance - and the United States - have made it clear Kiev will not be left alone if Russia launches an offensive in the region.

http://youtu.be/AJVraYmfosY
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2021, 07:02:57 PM
Efforts to resolve the long-running war in Eastern Ukraine have all so far failed.
There have been ceasefires, and then, almost inevitably, violations of ceasefires.
But a major flare up in fighting between Russian-backed separatists and Ukrainian troops is now threatening to escalate the conflict beyond anything we've seen so far.
Russia is reportedly massing its troops at the border and warning NATO not to send military support to Ukraine.
But the alliance - and the United States - have made it clear Kiev will not be left alone if Russia launches an offensive in the region.

http://youtu.be/AJVraYmfosY

Putin is making this statement as he is 'hopeing' that NATO troops won't be sent. If the west makes it clear that they are sending in NATO troops then that would thwart his plans. So his warning is a bluff, to us in the west it really means 'send in NATO troops' as if we go along with what Putin 'warns' then he'll get what he wants and invade Ukraine. Right now I can't see the west actually putting troops on the ground though. Time is one one issue as we would have to move any NATO troops stationed in Europe there another is will to do anything like that which I think most western leaders are lacking, this giving Putin a free hand.

Quickest stop gap support would be to send in lots off hand held anti-tank & anti-plane gear, rocket launchers or similar. A lot of local resistance using this gear could strike heavy losses on the Russians but equally would make the Russians pound civilian areas where these resistance fighters would be holed up.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 10, 2021, 09:54:13 AM
http://youtu.be/5884ceMgZE0
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 10, 2021, 12:48:00 PM
Don't they do build ups every year or so ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
http://youtu.be/5884ceMgZE0

That's a huge amount of tanks Grumpy, my guess is that they would easily swamp Ukraine's army and they would be utterly annihilated. Only a big army force moving in to support Ukraine's is likely to be able to possibly counter that sort of enormity of forces and I don't think such a force will be able to mobilize in time.

If Russia is seeking to attack then I think the only chance Ukraine has got is to get another country or two on board who will actually be willing to put troops on the ground as quick as they can then hope that ours the Russians off in terms of them not wanting to strike against other countries in the process of invading Ukraine. Either that or Ukrainians just hope the Russia will leave them with the bulk of their country if they invade. I still reckon that Ukrainians themselves would be best of with hand held rocket launcher type of stuff using hit & run type of tactics.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 10, 2021, 05:17:03 PM
Don't they do build ups every year or so ?

They usually do a big war games thing in Late Summer
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 10, 2021, 07:18:15 PM
"Some of the Russian military moves have a long-term feel. Russian troops and military hardware are at a recently constructed camp near Voronezh, about 155 miles from the Ukrainian border, according to the Moscow-based Conflict Intelligence Team, which monitors Russia’s military and security services.
Russia is also relocating the 56th Guards Air Assault Brigade to Feodosia in Crimea."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-ukraine-military-biden-donbas/2021/04/09/99859490-96d3-11eb-8f0a-3384cf4fb399_story.html

I would be very careful where I visited in Russia. Too easy to inadvertently witness a troop movement and get accused of spying.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2021, 02:00:16 AM
They usually do a big war games thing in Late Summer

A must see event for tourists surely :D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 11, 2021, 08:04:14 AM
A more banal explanation is that Moscow is pressurising Kiev to break the stalemate in the so-called Minsk peace process – after the latest Donbas ceasefire collapsed. Putin enjoyed a big, but fleeting, ratings boost after Crimea’s annexation. Last month, he used a lavish televised rally marking its seventh anniversary to recapture lost popularity.

It seems he failed. Russians are preoccupied with the coronavirus pandemic (and the incompetent official response), falling incomes, and a worsening socio-economic outlook. More than ever, Putin’s Soviet empire restoration project appears irrelevant, especially to younger people.

Putin is under fire at home from supporters of the much-persecuted opposition activist, Alexei Navalny, and over corruption allegations. Only 32% of Russians trust their president, according to a recent Levada Center poll. Seen this way, the Ukraine build-up looks like a calculated distraction for domestic political purposes.

Yet Putin may also be deliberately testing US and European resolve. He will not have forgotten how George W Bush pledged undying support to Georgia’s newly democratic government in 2005, then ducked out when war erupted with Russia in 2008.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/11/china-v-russia-v-america-is-2021-the-year-orwells-1984-comes-true

"Politicians are like prostitutes, they go with whoever pays the most money."
Donetsk separatist fighter 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2021, 10:11:49 AM

But the alliance - and the United States - have made it clear Kiev will not be left alone if Russia launches an offensive in the region.






Before the 2016 election, Trump said Russia isn't going to invade Ukraine if he was President. Did Biden recently say something to that effect? Russia and China wants more real estate. The question is when is the best time to get this real estate and it's best they do it at the same time. Both Russia and China has bribed Biden and family and have compromising video and photo evidence of their crimes. They expect Biden to be soft against anything they do.




Don't they do build ups every year or so ?




Sometimes it's training exercises, sometimes is saber rattling, and sometimes it'll turn into a Crimea/Eastern Ukraine. When an invasion sized force is sitting next door to a border, it make those living on the other side of the border nervous. Putin knows very what it does to people when you point a loaded gun to their heads.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 11, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
Russian Armed Force is reportedly deploying its Iskander (NATO Reporting name: SS-26 Stone) missile systems with R-500 extended-range ground-launched cruise missiles in areas near Voronezh, which’s 250 kilometers away from the border with Ukraine’s Kharkiv and Luhansk regions.
Iskander-K is the latest variant in the Iskander series of missiles. The missile system is equipped with two types (9M728 and 9M729) of extended-range ground-launched cruise missiles.

Russia says that the Iskander cruise missile has a range of just less than 300 miles, at the same time, military analysts stressed that they can have a range of more than 3000 km similar to ship-based Caliber- analog.

Russian official sources claim that the R-500 missile carries a conventional 500 kg warhead or nuclear warhead with a yield of around 10-50 kT. It is likely that there are several different conventional warheads, including cluster, fuel-air explosive, and bunker-busting. The missile can overcome enemy air defense systems while offering high-probability of failure-free operation in countermeasures environments. It has a target accuracy of 5m to 7m and operates even in fog or low visibility.

http://defence-blog.com/news/army/russia-deploys-iskander-systems-with-extended-range-missiles-to-ukrainian-border.html

The Russian Navy is sending 10 vessels, a mixture of landing craft and small gunboats, from its Caspian Sea Flotilla to the Black Sea. The deployment is ostensibly part of a larger series of readiness drills, but comes amid a continuing and worrisome Russian military buildup near the country's borders with Ukraine.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40103/russian-gunboats-head-to-the-black-sea-to-join-troop-buildup-near-ukraine

Yesterday, the U.S. Air Force also sent two B-1B bombers from Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota on a long-range, round-trip mission to the Aegean Sea, just south of the waterway leading into the Black Sea. The ostensible reason for these sorties was to “showcase the U.S. commitment to European security," which would seem to be related, at least in part, to the situation developing along the Russia-Ukraine border. It's also worth noting that the Air Force previously disclosed that a mission that B-1Bs conducted in the Black Sea region last year effectively saw those aircraft train to decapitate Russia's Black Sea Fleet.

Two US destroyers are deploying to the Black Sea.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40118/turkey-confirms-u-s-destroyers-are-headed-for-the-black-sea-amid-russia-ukraine-crisis

Links to several more interesting reports on those pages.

Given the amounts of nuclear capable weaponry being amassed in the region, how long will it be before the Don Bass is turned into a radioactive wasteland?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on April 12, 2021, 09:20:51 AM
Yesterday, the U.S. Air Force also sent two B-1B bombers from Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota on a long-range, round-trip mission to the Aegean Sea, just south of the waterway leading into the Black Sea. The ostensible reason for these sorties was to “showcase the U.S. commitment to European security," which would seem to be related, at least in part, to the situation developing along the Russia-Ukraine border. It's also worth noting that the Air Force previously disclosed that a mission that B-1Bs conducted in the Black Sea region last year effectively saw those aircraft train to decapitate Russia's Black Sea Fleet.



Before the US Air Force sends high value bombers in a war zone, they need to achieve air superiority. To achieve that we need to shoot down every Russian jet and bomb every radar and anti aircraft battery on the ground. Putin knows nobody in our government is going to do that. If he goes after more land, the punishment he'll get is sanctions.


Another option is Biden can loan Ukraine some voting machines and help with their elections promising Putin he will get the puppet he wants to run Ukraine next election in exchange for backing down.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 15, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
I think you're right Billy, sanctions would work more expedient than a much more costly war situation with Russia. Some suggest that all this troop build up is Putin trying to get present sanctions dropped and to stop Ukraine's military engaging in a new stronger offensive into the Donbass. Biden has punted forward a Summit with Putin and he has agreed apparently so could be something to that.

Meanwhile, preparations for an invasion continue at pace:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-invasion-ukraine-war-assault-vehicles-troops-b929750.html?amp
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 20, 2021, 03:18:23 PM
http://www.reuters.com/resizer/juROOWHHMd49Co01goaDDpmRIug=/960x0/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/APVF6YCFKZM5BAUBVBOSXDJF4M.jpg

http://static.politico.com/dims4/default/998f4ba/2147483647/resize/1160x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fd3%2F72%2F5d2fa8fa4b7dae0f0e32881f090e%2F6598296.jpg

The Pentagon has scrapped a potential Black Sea transit by two Navy destroyers this week due to concerns about escalating tensions between Russia and Ukraine, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the plans.

Earlier this month, the Navy notified Turkey, which manages traffic through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits leading to the Black Sea under the 1936 Montreux Convention, that they were tentatively planning a routine transit by the two destroyers, according to a U.S. defense official.

U.S. officials note that President Joe Biden has repeatedly reaffirmed Washington’s commitment to Ukraine’s territorial integrity and recently approved an additional $125 million worth of lethal aid to help the country defend its borders, including two armed patrol boats and counter-artillery radar.

And NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Wednesday during a joint press conference with Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken that the organization has increased its military presence in the Black Sea region, including with additional air policing and naval presence.

“We are committed to assisting Ukraine with its self-defense needs,” he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-usa-turkey-russia-int/u-s-cancels-warships-deployment-to-black-sea-turkish-diplomatic-sources-idUSKBN2C12U3

http://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/15/us-navy-ukraine-russia-tensions-481897
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: japtats on April 20, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
I would warn against going to Ukraine for the time being . I am relocating, I just stayed for my tattoos , but now things are getting tense in Ukraine . There is also a new strain of Corona , so if you don't get bombed by Russia , maybe Corona will kill you instead .

Honestly , in my opinion, people are better off going to Russia . My experiences in Russia has always been better , more friendly to foreigners , less scam attempts , more genuine connections .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 20, 2021, 04:26:39 PM
I would warn against going to Ukraine for the time being . I am relocating, I just stayed for my tattoos , but now things are getting tense in Ukraine . There is also a new strain of Corona , so if you don't get bombed by Russia , maybe Corona will kill you instead .

Honestly , in my opinion, people are better off going to Russia . My experiences in Russia has always been better , more friendly to foreigners , less scam attempts , more genuine connections .

Siberia or the far northern cities, maybe. I may be a bit paranoid, I worry about being in the wrong place at the wrong time as chess master Putin moves his military around. Diplomats and other staff being kicked out of, or arrested in several countries.    Do you want to be accused of espionage and held in an exchange deal for Boris Badov?  Western  Ukraine or Moldova might be safer.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2021, 12:27:19 AM
I would warn against going to Ukraine for the time being . I am relocating, I just stayed for my tattoos , but now things are getting tense in Ukraine . There is also a new strain of Corona , so if you don't get bombed by Russia , maybe Corona will kill you instead .

Honestly , in my opinion, people are better off going to Russia . My experiences in Russia has always been better , more friendly to foreigners , less scam attempts , more genuine connections .

What about your girl Japs? Are you still with her?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on April 21, 2021, 08:59:04 PM
Why we keep sticking our neck into other peoples problem is simply beyond me. Ukraine is not a NATO member, and if the EU is so desperate to establish a new source of commerce, let them stick their own kids for a change. Sheeesh.

A Democrat gets into office, and here we go again. Ukraine was a mess during Obama’s admin, it stop being a US mess the last 4 years, then less than a year of another Democratic president, here comes that mess again.

Can you folks now understand that ‘we’ really didn’t have anything to do with that silly civil war of 2014?

Right! 🙄

http://youtu.be/XM62PIYYGFs
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: japtats on April 22, 2021, 05:53:38 AM
Siberia or the far northern cities, maybe. I may be a bit paranoid, I worry about being in the wrong place at the wrong time as chess master Putin moves his military around. Diplomats and other staff being kicked out of, or arrested in several countries.    Do you want to be accused of espionage and held in an exchange deal for Boris Badov?  Western  Ukraine or Moldova might be safer.

Not paranoi, everything that can go wrong, will one day go wrong. People weigh out the risks, and the severity of being wrong. Low chance of Ukraine being turned into Russia's warzone vs the West, but there is a risk. Me and the GF are positioning ourselves away from the conflict, to give us time to go if things turn south . More chance of Russia bombing people than being accused of being a spy, but there are mercenaries in the East of ukraine, western solider ready to act when told to.

I have no idea why Russia wants to take more of ukraine,and aggravate the west. Ukrainians just want to be left alone, out of Russia's reach. I been all over ukraine, all share the same view. But Russia likes to post on their news outlets that Ukrainians are destroying their own country, and Russians buy what the media tells them.

It is a very sad situation, but everyone thinks they are ready to fight, until they get punched in the face. Russia and China won't last vs USA and the rest of the West. Even USA itself can handle the two of those countries, if it came out to an all out war.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 22, 2021, 09:54:02 AM
Russia and China won't last vs USA and the rest of the West. Even USA itself can handle the two of those countries, if it came out to an all out war.

Are you talking about the same country that lost the war to tiny North Viet Nam?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2021, 10:15:01 PM
As we likely all know by now Russia is pulling it's troops back from Ukraine's border:

BBC News - Russia to pull troops back from near Ukraine
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56842763

Nothing to stop him moving them back at a moment's notice though seems to be a lot of bother to do all of that for not much reason not to mention the cost, could even be a ruse before an invasion to take Ukraine off guard, we shall see I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: japtats on April 23, 2021, 07:16:32 AM
Are you talking about the same country that lost the war to tiny North Viet Nam?

If it is a war of soldiers/tanks vs soldiers/tanks, then yes. If it is a war based on a formulae, won't lat long. Remember what america did with a formulae e=mc^2, made a nuke? There is anti matter bombs (an example, but producing that much anti matter to make a blast is too expensive), just an example how science and formulaes can change everything, really quickly.

I am sure America have developed some weapons and defences that would wipe Russia and China out, they just don't show their cards. If people knew what weapons America had, they could reverse engineer on how to produce it. Better to keep it at bay, release it when needed.

We are in a different age, where things are becoming scientifically interesting. Get the science right, then there is no war, just a location that will be taken off the map.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 23, 2021, 09:09:16 AM
Russia said it may pull back troops from Ukrainian border because it has effectively demonstrated its ability to defend the Russian homeland.

This makes sense, since it was well known that Ukraine was preparing to invade Russia.

But Russia said it will keep all the heavy artillery in place to 'practice' firing later in  the year.

- - - -

As a side note, before Russia signaled intent to pull back some troops:

I had received notice that I would be recalled to active duty (but in an undercover role) to help this invading Ukrainian force.
I would be provided a special mobile phone over which my wife would interpret between myself, the Ukrainian soldiers, and any captured Russian soldiers.

The Pentagon had determined (I don't know how) that she had fluency in English, Ukrainian and Russian languages.

I had inquired if I would receive extra hazardous duty pay . . . but hadn't received any info back yet.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on September 11, 2021, 05:11:19 PM
http://youtu.be/Ez_zvVZEbvw
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 26, 2021, 10:45:40 AM
All internet connections to Ukraine currently are down.  Rumours are there was an attempted coup, but there is no confirmation yet.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on October 26, 2021, 06:49:26 PM
WOW this jumped out at me as something very  scary.

But my google search uncovered nothing.

Wife has talked to people in Ukraine via Skype all day as this is her birthday.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on October 27, 2021, 03:22:09 AM
I haven’t heard anything to suggest that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on October 27, 2021, 05:10:34 AM
Have been online with folks I work with in UA all yesterday and today.

No issues noted.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 31, 2021, 06:16:51 AM
Well according to recent reports Russia's troops are on the move again. Putin is pulling tanks from Siberia in the direction of Ukraine apparently according to this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10147369/Russian-westbound-gas-supply-Yamal-Europe-pipeline-comes-halt.html

Not sure what he's after this time or whether the oil pipelines will play a part. Seems a lot of fuss to keep moving troops on such a large scale around unless you intend to do something with them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on October 31, 2021, 09:49:30 AM
Well according to recent reports Russia's troops are on the move again. Putin is pulling tanks from Siberia in the direction of Ukraine apparently according to this article:

Ooooopps . . . I guess he doesn't know that China poses a much bigger risk to Russia (in the long run) than Ukraine ever will.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 02, 2021, 06:02:57 PM
Ooooopps . . . I guess he doesn't know that China poses a much bigger risk to Russia (in the long run) than Ukraine ever will.

You could be right ML, China is a big military and economic power now right on Russia's doorstep. They may have a few common issues against the west but with Chiba getting so strong and Russia renewing it's military technology they could end up seeing each other as a threat.

Latest news on Ukraine & Russia's new military build up:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10156359/Ukrainian-President-Zelensky-corners-Biden-COP26-royal-reception-discuss-tensions-Russia.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 06, 2021, 12:23:14 PM
Russia still has its build up of troops near Ukraine which is becoming a concern for the US:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10172613/Biden-sends-CIA-Director-Bill-Burns-Moscow-warn-Putin-building-troops-Ukraine-border.html

Apparently article states Ukraine has a problem with energy also. Guessing their gas and electricity supply is worse than ours.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2021, 07:28:07 AM
Looks like this could be it! Russia looks like it's sizing up to invade Ukraine, looking like it could really happen this time:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-brink-ukraine-invasion-thousands-25442398

With the virus, energy issues etc and now the Russkies amassing huge forces to invade Ukraine it looks like Ukrainians are really in for one hell of a winter. Probably best to avoid a trip out there at the moment. Looking like Krimster's predictions could be coming true.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 12, 2021, 08:48:55 AM
Russia has now sent paratroopers into Belarus,whilst we're now sending troops into Poland.


Looks like the build-ups in Eastern Europe are accelerating amid warnings from the USA and UK about Russian forces building up on the Ukraine border.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2021, 02:52:48 AM
Russia has now sent paratroopers into Belarus,whilst we're now sending troops into Poland.


Looks like the build-ups in Eastern Europe are accelerating amid warnings from the USA and UK about Russian forces building up on the Ukraine border.

Some think Putin is just making mischief. Belarus is unhappy at EU sanctions against it and is causing the migrant problem some say to get back at EU sanctions against it. The EU is looking to create an EU army with around 5,000 soldiers towards 2025 so that it can act independently abroad where it needs without the unanimous agreement if all member states. It's still got to go through the EU Member states for approval. I personally think it is too small and doesn't answer the problem the EU has in its border at home namely Russia. At the moment it's still NATO picking up the can and is of course this time. Belarus is threatening to cut gas supplies to Europe also.

So whether they are just staying all of this to get concessions who knows? Last time it was possibly about sanctions on the Baltic sea pipeline from Russia to Germany. It looked like it may have got them lifted. Don't know if this is all about getting sanctions on its neighbour Belarus lifted, seems a lot of bother for that.

It looks like Russia has cut some lines that can detect submarines from Norway:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10196799/Norwegian-undersea-surveillance-network-capable-detecting-submarines-cables-cut.html

Possibly they are gearing up for an Invasion of Ukraine to some extent. All depends on whether they make a move this time or another phoney war. Some say Russia has been left feeling humiliated and weak from its USSR days where it held a lot more territory and it wants some of that territory back. Others say that territory could be more of a burden on its economy than much of a help. I can't see them taking over large amounts of territory with NATO doing nothing though. Will have to wait and see if they actually make a move this time.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 13, 2021, 01:20:45 PM
15,000 Polish troops have been deployed to the border with Belarus....just 20 miles from where Russian Paratroopers landed.


8.500 Ukrainian troops have been deployed to the border with Russia.


USA Vice President Kamala Harris says the USA is" looking at the tools it has" after a day of rapid-fire developments.


Meanwhile UK fighter jets were scrambled to see off two Russian bombers close to the UK....again.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2021, 01:36:45 PM
The deployment of Polish troops is due to the migrant crisis Lukashenko has created.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 13, 2021, 01:48:46 PM
Harris has spoken with Macron and says "On the issue of Belarus and what is happening at the border with Poland we are very concerned about that and closely paying attention to it."


Pity she's not so concerned about the illegal migrants flooding into the UK....aided by Macron,with French warships filmed shadowing the migrants into UK waters.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
I don't think we'll have any concerns about Russian troops crossing into Poland, we've sent out 10 of our troops to Poland to see them off. I very much doubt they'll be able to top that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 17, 2021, 12:08:20 AM
Brexit Britain taking full advantage of the situation in Ukraine to boost its Naval sales :D

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-signs-deal-to-help-boost-ukraines-navy-in-the-face-of-increased-threat-from-russia-12470490

More jobs and money brought into the country by this one :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 20, 2021, 03:06:21 AM
President Zelensky is no longer the popular boy he once was with Ukrainians more interested in other matters than a pretty boy with a cheesy smile:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a-covid-19-crisis-and-putins-war-push-ukraine-to-breaking-point

Covid still hitting Ukraine hard at the moment, Russian tanks on the border looking set to move in and of course colder temperatures now hitting Ukraine with gas being a problem to get hold off.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/interview/analyst-eu-must-force-gazprom-to-supply-gas-to-russia-ukraine-border/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2021, 11:35:35 AM
Latest reports on the Russia/Ukraine situation. A Ukrainian General reckons Russia may invade around January time, plan your dating trips carefully guys ;D Can't think what Kherson girl would be thinking now with Russian tanks amassed on the border, from the article it looks like the Russians could come in from every which way!

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10229427/amp/Russia-preparing-INVADE-Ukraine-end-January-Kiev-General-warns.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2021, 11:45:59 AM
She's probably thinking "Maybe I will meet a handsome young soldier.  Thank goodness I didn't weigh myself down with that middle aged British idiot who thought buying me goods worth a day of wages should result in eternal gratitude."
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2021, 02:45:18 PM
She's probably thinking "Maybe I will meet a handsome young soldier.  Thank goodness I didn't weigh myself down with that middle aged British idiot who thought buying me goods worth a day of wages should result in eternal gratitude."

Lol, during WWII enemy soldiers invading into a country often meant that the local girls were going to be met with rape. I'm sure though we are living in more enlightened times now, perhaps.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 22, 2021, 02:51:48 PM
She's probably thinking "Maybe I will meet a handsome young soldier.  Thank goodness I didn't weigh myself down with that middle aged British idiot who thought buying me goods worth a day of wages should result in eternal gratitude."


I'm sure all young women who's country is about to be invaded by another country think they may meet a handsome young soldier. :rolleyes:


German women were very well-treated by the invading Soviet forces weren't they ?


Estimates are that up to 2 million German women were raped by Soviet soldiers.


According to historian William Hitchcock many of the women were raped up to 60 or 70 times.


Let's hope the rapists were all young and handsome eh ? :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2021, 02:58:54 PM
There are Ukrainian soldiers as well.


First, I doubt rather highly that Russia is readying an invasion of Ukraine.  Second, no matter what is stated, these peoples, other than in Western Ukraine, largely think of themselves as one. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 22, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
There are Ukrainian soldiers as well.


First, I doubt rather highly that Russia is readying an invasion of Ukraine.  Second, no matter what is stated, these peoples, other than in Western Ukraine, largely think of themselves as one.


If there is an invasion Ukrainian soldiers will be too busy fighting for their lives to be interested in chasing a  bit of totty.


Tanks rolling down toward you will be a bit of a passion killer.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2021, 03:13:47 PM
Stories from WWII suggest that's inaccurate.  Plus, there isn't going to be an invasion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 22, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
German women were very well-treated by the invading Soviet forces weren't they ?

Soviet forces 'invaded'  Germany ???

Did USA forces also invade Germany ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 22, 2021, 04:37:56 PM

Estimates are that up to 2 million German women were raped by Soviet soldiers.

What are the estimates of Soviet women raped by German soldiers earlier in the war ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 22, 2021, 05:30:13 PM
German women suffered the largest mass rape in history  ...this was from Soviet soldiiers...google it and read it for yourself.


SOVIET war correspondent Natalya Gesse said Soviet soldiers were raping females from eight to eighty.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Rosco on November 23, 2021, 03:55:50 AM
For what it's worth, I cant see an invasion happening. In fact it sounds absurd.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 24, 2021, 01:21:25 PM
It's not absurd.  It is unlikely, but a decade ago, so was a Russian invasion of Crimea, and so was Russian backed forces shooting a European plane full of civilians out of the sky.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Rosco on November 24, 2021, 02:59:27 PM
It's not absurd.  It is unlikely, but a decade ago, so was a Russian invasion of Crimea, and so was Russian backed forces shooting a European plane full of civilians out of the sky.

A couple of debatable things said above but without getting into those discussions again, I guess I’m saying that I’d bet my virtual house on an invasion, not happening.

Time will tell.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 25, 2021, 10:23:29 PM
British troops moving into Germany, looks like things are hotting up:

http://www.ft.com/content/1c56235e-dcc6-4505-851c-8e904b46339b

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-army-returns-to-germany-in-face-of-russian-threat-bhs7lmnsv
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 26, 2021, 10:54:27 AM
Possible Russian dirty tricks going down in Ukraine:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10245811/amp/Russia-plotting-coup-Ukraine-December-Ukranian-president-makes-dramatic-speech.html

Might be the least bloodiest way out for them if it did go down.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2021, 04:09:57 PM
More news on further troop build up on Ukraine's border:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10279477/Ukraine-Russia-border-Satellite-images-reveal-Putins-troop-build-continues.html

They reckon early 2022 for an Invasion. What are the odds an Invasion might take place on New Year's Day or possibly even Christmas Day?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2021, 11:14:43 PM
An interesting article on the current state of affairs on the Ukrainian front line:

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-front.html

Looks like the sh*t could really hit the fan soon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 07, 2021, 02:48:03 PM
It's now making headline news on both the BBC and Sky News...the general feeling seems to be the talks today between Biden and Putin haven't really de-escalated the situation.


Putin has made demands and was basically told to do one.


The Sky reporter in Washington reported that there WILL be NATO ( including USA ) military boots on the ground in Ukraine if Russia invades.It won't be the same situation as when Russian troops invaded Crimea,and all the west did was impose economic sanctions on Russia.


NATO troops will also build-up in former FSU countries such as Latvia.


USA is said to have an understanding with Germany that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline will be shut if Russia invades Ukraine.


Seems NATO has had a gutful of Putin's posturing.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on December 07, 2021, 08:51:52 PM

USA is said to have an understanding with Germany that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline will be shut if Russia invades Ukraine..

And here I thought Germany and some other European countries needed that gas.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 08, 2021, 01:18:12 PM
It's now making headline news on both the BBC and Sky News...the general feeling seems to be the talks today between Biden and Putin haven't really de-escalated the situation.


Putin has made demands and was basically told to do one.


The Sky reporter in Washington reported that there WILL be NATO ( including USA ) military boots on the ground in Ukraine if Russia invades.It won't be the same situation as when Russian troops invaded Crimea,and all the west did was impose economic sanctions on Russia.


NATO troops will also build-up in former FSU countries such as Latvia.


USA is said to have an understanding with Germany that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline will be shut if Russia invades Ukraine.


Seems NATO has had a gutful of Putin's posturing.

I'm not sure how many troops NATO has stationed out there but my guess is that it may well be too few to go up against Russia's army if it came to that. A few thousand troops scattered here and there isn't likely to be enough is my thinking. I reckon that the US, UK, etc need to mobilise and move a lot of troops over to form an army strong enough to stand a chance of stopping Russian troops. Otherwise they could either be sat watching on the sidelines in the EU or be wiped out by superior numbers.

My guess is that they really need to move into Ukraine in big numbers if not already (which I doubt) as otherwise Russia's army will likely easily overun Ukraine's without Ukraine inflicting enough damage. If that scenario goes down then pointlessly losing Ukraine's army may make winning all the harder.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on December 08, 2021, 09:24:43 PM
If that scenario goes down then pointlessly losing Ukraine's army may make winning all the harder.
The goal of the moment is to create instability, not to take Ukraine.   The buildup cost Putin $130 million, but he can afford it.  More debt borrowing for Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on December 09, 2021, 05:48:04 AM
The Sky reporter in Washington reported that there WILL be NATO ( including USA ) military boots on the ground in Ukraine if Russia invades.

NATO, lol. Since when did Ukraine become a NATO member?

You get a democrat back at the WH, and here we are, and there goes Victoria Nuland back in Kiev continuing what ‘we’ (US) started in 2014.

I can only hope Biden’s dementia stays true to form and Hunter is too busy milking China’s cow so they won’t waste any American kids life anymore halfway around our globe. No blood for oil and all that talk, remember? Hell, if any, let antifa volunteer, even blm. Do an Obama move. Just keep the media out of it, and bomb the crap out of Russia and take over the country, Libya style. Oh wait, Russia have more guns than Libya. Lol.

Does no one even see the irony in this? For almost two years your politicians got most of you so scared of dying, they had you and your lot submit to an experimental soup injected in your bodies yet, in a moment’s whim and greed, they won’t hesitate to send you or your lot get your brains blown out fighting for their zany political gamesmanship.

If Europe wanna grab Ukraine’s market as their own, let them sacrifice their vaccinated kids for their politicians gain. Outside of the UK, I seriously doubt any of them have the fortitude stupidity to do so, LMAO.

Georgia is a much smaller nation than Ukraine, they stood up to Russia with no ones help, sheeesh. They got smoked but at least they are still a free country today. Me hopes they leave Ukraine alone. They wanna be free from Russia, let them fight for it. Let Georgia be their inspiration.

Plus remember what happened at the onset of the civil war, at their darkest moment when Ukraine soldiers desperately needed supplies like food, arms, accessories, etc. The US sent them things like MREs, night vision goggles, etc. Guess what happened to them? Yup, it hit the black market. That should clearly tell you what you’re dealing with.

Besides, the reality is, trying to help and save Ukraine from Russia only renders Ukraine ripe for China. Out…fire…frying pan. I mean look at the case with Italy. Italy is now merely renting their country from its new landlord - China. In some ways, the US is heading in the same direction. Give Hunter some time and we can be there in no time at all.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on December 09, 2021, 07:57:36 AM

Besides, the reality is, trying to help and save Ukraine from Russia only renders Ukraine ripe for China. Out…fire…frying pan. I mean look at the case with Italy. Italy is now merely renting their country from its new landlord - China. In some ways, the US is heading in the same direction. Give Hunter some time and we can be there in no time at all.

I haven't been keeping track.   In what way does china own so much of Italy? 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on December 09, 2021, 08:26:19 AM
NATO, lol. Since when did Ukraine become a NATO member?

You get a democrat back at the WH, and here we are, and there goes Victoria Nuland back in Kiev continuing what ‘we’ (US) started in 2014.

 

I'm not sure what we really have to offer Ukraine.  "Made in China" goods, that enrich mostly china with a little cut to the US companies.     Of course I have read that we are threatening the nord stream 2 if russia makes one false move. That way we can get back to selling our expensive natural resources to europe. 

Fathertime! 

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on December 09, 2021, 09:39:25 AM
I'm not sure what we really have to offer Ukraine.  "Made in China" goods, that enrich mostly china with a little cut to the US companies.     Of course I have read that we are threatening the nord stream 2 if russia makes one false move. That way we can get back to selling our expensive natural resources to europe. 

Fathertime! 

Fathertime!


None. Who said we have anything to offer Ukraine other than be a Russian PITA? The same way Russia made CUBA one for us.

But China can certainly chomp at the bits. Not too many places in the world that is as arable as Ukraine. Perfect place to harvest their love of their scared tofu, and raise pigs. Ever had the delicious Tofu with Pork? Yum, baby! China already owns 13 million hectare of Ukraine's farm land. That's literally 9% of Ukraine's farmland, LMAO. This way they won't have to rely on the US & Brazil for soy imports. It'll be cheaper in Ukraine, and with another 40+ million consumer to buy Chinese goods - win, win baby.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on December 09, 2021, 10:51:02 AM
China already owns 13 million hectare of Ukraine's farm land. That's literally 9% of Ukraine's farmland, LMAO.

Are you sure of this ?
I think lease rather than own as Ukraine still has prohibition against foreign ownership of farm land.

Even just today over breakfast wifey was telling of her concern about her inheritance of farm land when her parents pass away given her USA citizenship.  But if Ukraine gets around to overturning their law against dual citizenship, she will be in the clear.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on December 09, 2021, 11:21:33 AM
Are you sure of this ?
I think lease rather than own as Ukraine still has prohibition against foreign ownership of farm land.

Even just today over breakfast wifey was telling of her concern about her inheritance of farm land when her parents pass away given her USA citizenship.  But if Ukraine gets around to overturning their law against dual citizenship, she will be in the clear.


It probably depends on whom you ask. Ukraine will likely tell you the deal was a 50-year lease. For China, OTOH, it's an outright ownership, as in 'it's bought' and paid for. Then there's the missing *000*s. China believes its 3,000,000 hectare, while Ukraine (KSG Agro) insists it's a mere 3,000.


 :P


http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-disputed-deal-to-farm-5-of-the-ukraine-2013-9 (http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-disputed-deal-to-farm-5-of-the-ukraine-2013-9)

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1314902/ukraine-become-chinas-largest-overseas-farmer-3m-hectare-deal?module=perpetual_scroll_0&pgtype=article&campaign=1314902 (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1314902/ukraine-become-chinas-largest-overseas-farmer-3m-hectare-deal?module=perpetual_scroll_0&pgtype=article&campaign=1314902)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-claims-to-have-bought-a-huge-chunk-of-ukraine-41509/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on December 20, 2021, 09:50:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 20, 2021, 04:25:20 PM

It probably depends on whom you ask. Ukraine will likely tell you the deal was a 50-year lease. For China, OTOH, it's an outright ownership, as in 'it's bought' and paid for. Then there's the missing *000*s. China believes its 3,000,000 hectare, while Ukraine (KSG Agro) insists it's a mere 3,000.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-disputed-deal-to-farm-5-of-the-ukraine-2013-9 (http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-disputed-deal-to-farm-5-of-the-ukraine-2013-9)

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1314902/ukraine-become-chinas-largest-overseas-farmer-3m-hectare-deal?module=perpetual_scroll_0&pgtype=article&campaign=1314902 (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1314902/ukraine-become-chinas-largest-overseas-farmer-3m-hectare-deal?module=perpetual_scroll_0&pgtype=article&campaign=1314902)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-claims-to-have-bought-a-huge-chunk-of-ukraine-41509/ (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-claims-to-have-bought-a-huge-chunk-of-ukraine-41509/)

By law, agricultural land in Ukraine can be leased, but not sold, to foreigners.  In fact, even Ukrainian citizens could not own large tracts of land before July 1, 2021.  The law was changed on that date to allow Ukrainians to own up to 100 hectares of land.  Sales to foreigners are still prohibited, and the law can only be changed by referendum.  So, the land is leased no matter what the Chinese say they believe.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 09, 2022, 09:01:12 PM
So it looks like it's all up this month or so on whether anything will happen about Ukraine:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-nato-prepares-for-possible-russian-invasion-as-diplomats-fear-talks-will-fail-12512624

If talks fail then who knows possibly some sort of invasion in February maybe. The article seems to think it may be a limited invasion, maybe they are thinking just into the Donbass. That however I think would show Russia as invading territory with its own troops and taking what is not theirs. Currently they have been fighting that war by proxy so that would be a hostile stance for just a small piece of territory likely provoking full scale sanctions and possibly a new cold war.

So if the stakes are high might Putin go for more, if he invades Donbass then Ukraine's military could likely see itself as facing no alternative but to take them on as best as possible. So possibly might Russia take the whole of eastern Ukraine or all of Ukraine?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 12, 2022, 11:14:23 AM
After a four hour meeting with Russians today..things are not looking good.


NATO's Secretary General Mr Stoltenberg said after talks had finished that there is a "real risk for a new armed conflict in Europe" but that the Alliance "will do what we can to prevent any such scenario ".


"If Russia once more uses force against Ukraine and further invades Ukraine then we have to seriously look into the need to further increase our presence in the eastern part of the Alliance."









Meanwhile there are reports that Russia has been flying Helicopters to the Ukrainian border to airlift troops into Ukraine after mild weather has transformed the normally rock-hard frozen ground at this time of year into a muddy quagmire in which the Russian Tanks cannot roll into Ukraine.




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 12, 2022, 03:29:38 PM
After a four hour meeting with Russians today..things are not looking good.


NATO's Secretary General Mr Stoltenberg said after talks had finished that there is a "real risk for a new armed conflict in Europe" but that the Alliance "will do what we can to prevent any such scenario ".


"If Russia once more uses force against Ukraine and further invades Ukraine then we have to seriously look into the need to further increase our presence in the eastern part of the Alliance."









Meanwhile there are reports that Russia has been flying Helicopters to the Ukrainian border to airlift troops into Ukraine after mild weather has transformed the normally rock-hard frozen ground at this time of year into a muddy quagmire in which the Russian Tanks cannot roll into Ukraine.

Looks like Ukraine's luck is in with the mud CB. If Ukraine has any sense they'll try adding to it as best they can. It probably won't be enough to stop Russia's army but it may put them off if it looks like they will get an awkward time of it.

Looks like NATO is just threatening to load up troops on the bordering nations if Ukraine is invaded then and not intervene in Ukraine. I'm not sure that is going to be enough as it's more or less saying they are going to stand by on the side lines.

Mixed messages still coming if Russia will invade or not, NATO's position on the side lines seems pretty set now.

Possibly Russia may run out of steam in terms of moving towards an Invasion. Can't see there is much for Russia to gain now unless they really are intent on invading Ukraine, NATO isn't seeming ready to do deals or keep out the border states. My guess is if Russia's army stays put in the coming days/weeks then there may be a good chance they going to invade as otherwise they've nothing to gain by sitting there if they aren't getting anything from NATO.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 12, 2022, 04:08:57 PM
Thinking this through a bit more I reckon there could be pretty good chance Russia may invade. If Putin isn't going to get what he wants out of NATO then they've essentially called his bluff, if he is bluffing then he'll pull his troops away, that's going to cause him embarrassment though, possibly humiliation. In the summer he stuck more to the exercises excuse but this time he's been telling Ukraine/the west that they are there because of NATO's expansion as he see's it.  If he backs down and pulls troops this time for the second time he's lost and that manoeuvre won't work again unless he really does invade. So it may push him towards invading, Ukraine is essentially there for the taking now that NATO says it is going to stand by, so it's just the Russian army against Ukraine's army. Ukraine's army probably won't last long on that score. They've got arms and training from the west in recent years so may cause Russia's army some damage but ultimately they're a lot weaker than Russia's army.

Possibly Russia may wait to see if the mud will dry but odds are they could invade pretty soon. That's not great for me of course as if Ukraine becomes Russian I'll need to pay for a visa to visit. Belarus is difficult & more expensive to get to so that leaves just Georgia, pretty religious apparently and the stans further away so more time and expense there.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 12, 2022, 10:22:37 PM
Thinking this through a bit more I reckon there could be pretty good chance Russia may invade. If Putin isn't going to get what he wants out of NATO then they've essentially called his bluff, if he is bluffing then he'll pull his troops away, that's going to cause him embarrassment though, possibly humiliation. In the summer he stuck more to the exercises excuse but this time he's been telling Ukraine/the west that they are there because of NATO's expansion as he see's it.  If he backs down and pulls troops this time for the second time he's lost and that manoeuvre won't work again unless he really does invade. So it may push him towards invading, Ukraine is essentially there for the taking now that NATO says it is going to stand by, so it's just the Russian army against Ukraine's army. Ukraine's army probably won't last long on that score. They've got arms and training from the west in recent years so may cause Russia's army some damage but ultimately they're a lot weaker than Russia's army.

Possibly Russia may wait to see if the mud will dry but odds are they could invade pretty soon. That's not great for me of course as if Ukraine becomes Russian I'll need to pay for a visa to visit. Belarus is difficult & more expensive to get to so that leaves just Georgia, pretty religious apparently and the stans further away so more time and expense there.
Trench, stop thinking....
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 13, 2022, 10:33:13 AM


Possibly Russia may wait to see if the mud will dry but odds are they could invade pretty soon. That's not great for me of course as if Ukraine becomes Russian I'll need to pay for a visa to visit. Belarus is difficult & more expensive to get to so that leaves just Georgia, pretty religious apparently and the stans further away so more time and expense there.


Have you thought about Serbia ?


English is widely spoken there.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 13, 2022, 03:03:53 PM

Have you thought about Serbia ?


English is widely spoken there.

Nope, that's a good thought of yours on the surface of it CB. Serbia aren't in the EU and if they speak English then a viable option. Only problem is on Fdate they are very few women on there, only two in the 29-39 age category, non smoker, without children and with photo, and they've been on there a fair number of days ago.

Main problem at the moment is that I'm running out of women who I see as possiblities in Ukraine and that is if continues to exist as Ukraine. You'd think that they would be cramming onto Fdate with an economy which must be wreaked now because of the virus and with the Russians knocking at their door staring oblivion in the face, but no.

I can see the possibility of girls of the former Eastern Bloc countries coming back onto the market in future years now that the UK have left the EU and with the EU now struggling with its debt:

http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-plans-to-tax-its-way-out-of-recovery-debt/

Poland, Hungary and recently even Romania have been having fall outs with the EU. I think that now the money is running out and what amounts as further corporate taxes rise by the EU plus the realisation that it could take decades to make inroads into paying off the debt well good chance they'll leave. Even if not the desire to get in with a UK guy & the UK may be a bit of a pull.

For me I'll chomp on with Ukraine & Fdate for the time being. Keep thinking off VK but never really been able to utilise that one for dating to date.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on January 13, 2022, 06:15:57 PM
If Russia takes ukraine by force, exactly how long until they take Belarus, czech rep,etc
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 13, 2022, 09:18:50 PM
If Russia takes ukraine by force, exactly how long until they take Belarus, czech rep,etc

Think the idea at the moment is if Russia take Ukraine then NATO will immediately move up a lot of its forces to the border of Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova and the Baltic States with Russia. Belarus is close enough aligned to Russia for Putin to not be too concerned there.

That will bring a new Iron Curtain down with it just being shifted further west than the old one. Once Russia takes Ukraine they probably won't want to give it up by negotiating with NATO for it to pull back it's forces. NATO will say it's in response to Russian Invasion of Ukraine. Russia won't likely attack the new line drawn in the sand as NATO forces will already be there.

Odds are under such a scenario is that Finland will join NATO also since if Ukraine is taken they will fear being next with history being what it is.

NATO of course will be committed to defending along that new iron curtain otherwise the risk is being pushed however far back Russia wishes. Who will come of the winner of there is one in such an event who knows. Like I say unlikely I think at least. Russia going into Ukraine there could be a fair chance of that happening as said earlier to my mind at least.

If the talks break down Russia could see it as their issues have not been resolved over NATO expansion, etc and invade Ukraine. Could be the real thing this time. Not sure how Ukrainian girls on the ground feel about it. They'll be in the firing line unless they can refugee it in time over the border to the EU especially now they have reasonably easy tourist visa free access.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 13, 2022, 10:57:35 PM
Think the idea at the moment is if Russia take Ukraine then NATO will immediately move up a lot of its forces to the border of Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova and the Baltic States with Russia. Belarus is close enough aligned to Russia for Putin to not be too concerned there.

That will bring a new Iron Curtain down with it just being shifted further west than the old one. Once Russia takes Ukraine they probably won't want to give it up by negotiating with NATO for it to pull back it's forces. NATO will say it's in response to Russian Invasion of Ukraine. Russia won't likely attack the new line drawn in the sand as NATO forces will already be there.

 
I do not think Russia is going to do very much in Ukraine, let alone the rest of the nations you mentioned.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2022, 12:57:58 AM
I do not think Russia is going to do very much in Ukraine, let alone the rest of the nations you mentioned.   

Fathertime!

Well according to latest thinking they reckon Russia could invade within days!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10404745/Fears-grow-Vladimir-Putin-stage-fake-attacks-troops-justify-Russian-invasion.html

So a false flag operation as a pretext to invade a bit like Japan's excuse to invade China before WWII. A recent cyber attack on Ukraine's government website signalling a possible prelude to an attack. Putin is now an old man at 69 years so I doubt he cares too much as he's only likely got so long left. NATO have essentially left Ukraine to be hung out to dry by not moving in troops so Putin may well take a gamble and see if it can be easily taken.

At the moment I'm messaging a Ukrainian girl who lives about in the middle of Ukraine. I've just messaged her back asking how she feels about the situation with Russian forces out there, not the most romantic message to send I guess but it's pretty relevant at the moment. I don't know if anyone here has any word from Ukrainians on the ground out there but I'm guessing it can't be a great feeling for them. Potentially at any point Russia could invade and all sh*t is likely to break loose. Russia is likely to give it all it's got including unleashing it's weapons of mass destruction onto both the Ukrainian army and the local population, huge big missiles, massive loss of life I'm guessing.

Western nations I think know that their own people won't support any NATO action in Ukraine certainly not by going to fight themselves or any children, family, etc of theirs. We don't have a cohesive or good enough society these days in which many people feel invested enough to stand up for and fight. A guy in western society looking around him today only has the offering of fat women, career women that are competing against him for jobs that he needs to make him worthy in the eyes of women, women having the upper hand in terms of family & divorce courts, etc. With all of that most guys will walk and I somehow doubt the career women will want to step into the breach even if only to pose for Instagram photos of themselves in combat gear. Nope Ukraine invasion and new iron curtain looks on the cards to my mind.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 15, 2022, 08:15:46 AM
You can't blame western people for not being interested in fighting for Ukraine.


The only people who have any interest are a few blokes trying to avoid the pro-daters and scammers out there in finding a potential wife.


I wouldn't want my 23 year-old son being sent out there to fight and quite possibly get killed.


Are you going out there to fight Trench ?


I know a few Brits did when Russian separatists tried to take the Donbas region.


The only thing i feel the west ,and in particular the USA and UK ,have let Ukraine down with is the Budapest Memorandum as we're not honouring it by sitting on the sidelines.


I can imagine there'll be quite a few Ukrainian hotties heading for Poland .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on January 15, 2022, 08:50:40 AM
I’ve chatted with a couple of Russian friends.... Both think Putin won’t cross the boarder and is just posturing for western attention....  He’ll keep playing war games on the border and it will eventually amount to a non-event.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2022, 02:05:37 PM
Why does he need Western attention?  This is all for internal consumption, not Western attention. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on January 15, 2022, 04:22:10 PM
Why does he need Western attention?  This is all for internal consumption, not Western attention.

You’re right, but I’ve seen enough state run tv to see he uses western media and events like the NATO summit on this issue as propaganda. He relies on western reactions to build a wall between his citizens and the west.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2022, 04:36:18 PM
You can't blame western people for not being interested in fighting for Ukraine.


The only people who have any interest are a few blokes trying to avoid the pro-daters and scammers out there in finding a potential wife.


I wouldn't want my 23 year-old son being sent out there to fight and quite possibly get killed.


Are you going out there to fight Trench ?


I know a few Brits did when Russian separatists tried to take the Donbas region.


The only thing i feel the west ,and in particular the USA and UK ,have let Ukraine down with is the Budapest Memorandum as we're not honouring it by sitting on the sidelines.


I can imagine there'll be quite a few Ukrainian hotties heading for Poland .

I don't blame your son for not wanting to fight for my sex life in Ukraine CB :D

Seriously Ukraine was stupid to give up those Nukes, they wouldn't have lost Crimea or faced the problems in the Donbass or the threat of Russian Invasion had they not done so. Literally there was nothing to stop Ukraine from holding onto them they didn't have to agree but they are a foolish mistake and made their country a weakling as a result. As you rightly say the Budapest Memorandum is not being honoured is proving useless.

I won't be going out there to fight for Ukraine and I don't expect an other westerner too. The first girl I met in Kiev, a pretty and tall blonde girl from Mariupol told me she had no interest in it all, to her the civil war was all between oligarchs fighting for power. She had even asked me for a first class train ticket as she didn't want to mix with soldiers in second class lol. I did of course there was little difference to me and of course second class train travel out there is not great being often cramped with others, pretty much all natives. Anyhow I get the impression that a lot of the women won't stay around for loyalty sake out there, they'll most likely run to the EU border and over. My impression is their loyalty to men is not great our there and they tend to regard themselves as superior social status.

End of the day if Putin takes Ukraine then yes Ukrainian girl hotties in Poland who are displaced may be a good place to hunt :) I'm not sure how the EU is going to fair long term, they've taken on a lot of debt due to the virus so if member states become discontent who knows.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
I’ve chatted with a couple of Russian friends.... Both think Putin won’t cross the boarder and is just posturing for western attention....  He’ll keep playing war games on the border and it will eventually amount to a non-event.

He pulled away last Summer but that was under the pretext that it was a 'training exercise' that and it sounds like he had some sanctions lifted so he could finish his oil pipeline, Nordstream.

This time the training exercise wasn't mentioned and he has stated his issues with NATO and has been kind of threatening military intervention. With NATO saying they will stand on the sidelines it kind of leaves him with an invite to invade almost. Unless Putin has something to walk away with he'll look weak and cowardly like he has lost. He won't want to keep doing that. NATO has basically sat still not giving him anything to walk away with and not moving in to protect Ukraine either.

Possibly he might be able to climb down slowly over time by moving troops away bit by bit but I'm not sure if withdrawing will be easy for him without something to show for it. Obviously NATO don't want to just give into his demands they need something in return but at the moment they are hanging Ukraine out to dry as not important enough to fight over, possibly not but it can't be very heartening for many Ukrainians.

I think both Russians and Ukrainians will have their own opinions with many probably thinking it won't happen because it hasn't done so before in the past three decades. I kind of think that is complacent thinking. Let's say Putin invades and he suffers the highly unlikely outcome that his forces do not do well, he's essentially got not a lot to lose, Russia is highly unlikely to lose any territory, hIs position may be at risk but he's getting on now anyway. On the opposite side if he wins and takes Ukraine, as is the likely outcome then he will be seen as securing his place in history for Russia and reverse some of the embarrassment of the loss of the USSR.

I'm guessing this is one for the bookies as at the moment it seems a real toss up.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2022, 10:35:57 PM
One interesting thing about this all actually is why does Russia only have around 100,000 soldiers on Ukraine's border. Russia's army apparently amounts to more than a million soldiers. I'm not saying they couldn't accomplish it with the troops they have, Ukraine has a bit over 100,000 soldiers in all they can field but Russia has far greater weaponry. My guess is that Russia would focus on using their missiles to take out a lot of Ukraine's military before moving ground forces in so they wouldn't necessarily need a lot of troops. Still invading & holding a country I would imagine would be better to have a lot more ground troops at hand. I guess they can move more in later but still interesting that they haven't moved more in up front I'm thinking.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 17, 2022, 10:51:00 PM
Just a late night thought. If this thing does kick off with Ukraine and Russia it could leave many single girls for us western guys as most soldiers are male. A terrible thought I know but we live in a world of uncertainty but also of logic. End of the day anything can happen to anyone.

Back in the day part of the MOB reasoning for more women to men was previous wars but as time passed that obviously became less so and reasons such as alcoholism, drugs, cold winter, general health/living standards, unemployment, crime, etc became more likely explanations. If this war does kick of proper then the the war element may once again take greater prominence.

Apparently the UK has just shipped some anti-tank rocket launcher stuff to Ukraine's army and is showing them how it all goes down. The Germans want no part in it and are refusing RAF flights over Germany, think it's the planes delivering the stuff. Guessing the Germans are nder the Russians thumb a bit with the new gas pipeline, etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on January 17, 2022, 11:25:17 PM
There’s actually a shortage of women until age 40.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2022, 12:06:27 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/17/us/politics/russia-ukraine-kyiv-embassy.html

Russia moving out it's Embassy staff, I'm doubting this is just a bluff, could well be prelude to a Russian Invasion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2022, 04:49:59 PM
Some overall news of the situation:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10415817/amp/White-House-says-Russian-invasion-Ukraine-come-point.html

Apparently Ukraine is calling up 130,000 reservists to bolster it's existing troops so all to play for.

My guess is that I doubt Russia is doing all of this just over NATO expansion issues. They seem to be going a bit overboard for all of that if anything causing themselves a lot of ill-feeling over the all their activities. My bets are placed on this being the real thing. Likely when the ground hardens which will probably align with their preparations being complete they'll move in. So probably days to a week or two away.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 19, 2022, 05:24:45 AM
Ukraine now has 251.000 troops and 900,000 reservists.


It's going to be a bloodbath for Putins troops if they invade,could be a Stalingrad in reverse for them.....although Sea and Air superiority will probably eventually see a Russian victory.


But at what cost to the Russian people and economy.?


Will be interesting to see what Poland does if Russia does invade Ukraine...there is no love for Russia there,and they are pretty close to the Ukrainians,and of course a false flag operation involving Poland would mean NATO having to put boots on the ground against Russia...that's all it takes and this is how situations escalate.


Could be why Germany is terrified of getting involved ..showing mad Vlad what good little citizens they're being for him.Sadly for them they'll have no choice if NATO does get involved.


Poland won't want to see Russian influence growing on their borders....and with all the unrest and turmoil within Belarus's population i'm not sure their troops will be up for getting involved.


The USA seems to think Putin is going to attack Kiev through Belarus.If so that would leave Russian troops exposed to any potential attacks on their rear from Polish troops and cutting them off.


By attacking Ukraine Putin could bring his worst fears to fruition,with NATO attacking Russia from many  positions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2022, 08:16:35 AM
Ukraine now has 251.000 troops and 900,000 reservists.


It's going to be a bloodbath for Putins troops if they invade,could be a Stalingrad in reverse for them.....although Sea and Air superiority will probably eventually see a Russian victory.


But at what cost to the Russian people and economy.?

I believe had Russia wanted to attack Ukraine they would have done it very quickly and with surprise on their side.      Nowadays no large nation like Russia would allow itself to get into a war where they would suffer substantial casualties as it seems would be the case in Ukraine.   

Russia doesn't seem to be that desperate a nation, so there is little need to change the dynamics much, the US appears to be more desperate which begs the question of what is REALLY going on behind the scenes.
Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 19, 2022, 09:45:30 AM
If Ukraine would like independence from Russia, they have the right to repulse Russia and fight & die for their independence. American kids need not die unnecessarily anymore for our politician and military complex's agendas. Ukraine's kids can and should die for their freedom.


Europeans want to monopolize additional market in Ukraine, like they involved us in Libya (that country is still a wasteland full of chaos and mayhem, while Europeans are skimming its oil).


I'm tired of this 21st century European colonialism. The difference between now and then is the US had become its mercenarial stooge to do the killing and dying for them.


Live DC conference about Ukraine..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyy8ZOHtGGQ
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 19, 2022, 10:26:56 AM
Ukraine already is independent.  So a Russian invasion would be an invasion of a sovereign nation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 19, 2022, 11:21:11 AM
Ukraine already is independent.  So a Russian invasion would be an invasion of a sovereign nation.


Great! They can then do whatever it takes to preserve it. This is NOT an American affair. No American should die for that cause. Not one..


Europe want to expand their market to support their unsustainable internal societal social programs, then they should sacrifice their kids for a change.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 19, 2022, 11:21:44 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmxoSYq-Ufc
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 19, 2022, 11:51:25 AM

Great! They can then do whatever it takes to preserve it. This is NOT an American affair. No American should die for that cause. Not one..


Europe want to expand their market to support their unsustainable internal societal social programs, then they should sacrifice their kids for a change.


Doesn't the Budapest Memorandum make this a USA and UK affair ?


and no, as i've stated on here before, i don't want my 23 year-old son sent out there to fight.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 19, 2022, 12:06:32 PM
Wow....10-15,000 Americans living in Ukraine.


I wonder how many to get killed by Russian invading troops/Airstrikes to get USA troops on the ground there ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 19, 2022, 12:43:35 PM

Doesn't the Budapest Memorandum make this a USA and UK affair ?

Exactly. Neither countries should not have instigated, involved itself and participated in the 2014 Ukraine instability that prompted the civil war. To believe moving to expand NATO in Russia's doorstep and not have Russia consider that a threat to its sovereignty, is being shortsighted and not consider what the US did in the Cuban missile crisis.

Quote
and no, as i've stated on here before, i don't want my 23 year-old son sent out there to fight.

As it should be.


Quote
It is illogical to assume that Moscow should view comparable Western machinations differently. The blunt truth is that the United States and its allies intruded into a traditional Russian sphere of influence—indeed, into a zone that Moscow considers essential to national security. U.S. leaders should recognize that their conduct has violated an implicit Russian equivalent of the Monroe Doctrine. The West needs to back off before it triggers what former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev aptly described in a recent speech as a new Cold War.
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014/12/us-needs-recognize-russias-monroe-doctrine/100557/ (http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014/12/us-needs-recognize-russias-monroe-doctrine/100557/)

The 4 Principle of the Monroe Doctrine:

1. The United States would remain neutral in European affairs and not get involved in European conflicts.
2. The United States would not interfere with current European colonies in the Western Hemisphere.
3. No European nation would be allowed to establish a new colony in the Western Hemisphere.
4. If a European nation would try to interfere with a nation in the Western Hemisphere, the United States would view that as a hostile act and respond accordingly.

The US still regard this doctrine as valid as recently as the '90s.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2022, 03:55:53 PM

Doesn't the Budapest Memorandum make this a USA and UK affair ?


and no, as i've stated on here before, i don't want my 23 year-old son sent out there to fight.

I'm not sure on the ins & outs either of the Budapest Memorandum. It sounds like to me all sides, US, UK, RUSSIA, etc just all jointly agreed to keep out of Ukraine. Obviously Russia is threatening to ignore that agreement with their invasion and has already done so to sone extent with their involvement in East Ukraine and takeover in Crimea. So the 'assurances' given that all would keep out of Ukraine were essentially useless. For once I'm feeling sorry for Ukrainians being duped into such a foolish move, thought they were more streetwise than that, feel they have kind of been played for fools.

Anyhow from the brief stuff I've read don't think there was necessarily anything to underpin it or others coming to their aid. Sounds like it was all about good intentions that amount to not very much.

I personally would be in favour of sending all our fat women over there. They can bear their flabby rears at the Russians until they can take no more and be forced to withdraw >:(
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
Wow....10-15,000 Americans living in Ukraine.


I wonder how many to get killed by Russian invading troops/Airstrikes to get USA troops on the ground there ?

I'm surprised there are so many Americans living in Ukraine, guess it must have caught on among them how lovely it is for the women there. With a good income/independent income a good life can be had there. There a guy can be way up the pecking order with the women on what is just a low or average salary in the UK/US.

I'm guessing the Americans and any other foreigners will flee beforehand or when it happens (assuming it happens). I think we can safely assume a fair amount will be caught unawares and be there when/if it all goes down and wonder why there are always those types around. It will be like in the movies with the US guys shouting out that they are American citizens and waving their passports around as if of high importance and as if anyone cares.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2022, 04:33:24 PM
Latest is that Russia could send more troops to the Ukrainian border which of course they could having more than a million soldiers to call upon:

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-us-warns-russia-could-double-troop-numbers-on-border-at-short-notice-and-launch-attack-12520202

Other than that it looks like they are sending six large naval ships to the Black Sea/Ukraine. They've just passed the UK and it's pretty certain they are going that way.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10417951/Six-Russian-landing-ships-sail-past-Britain-sparking-speculation-bound-Ukraine.html


My guess is that if the Russians invade Kyiv and Kharkiv will be primary targets as both are real bear the Russian border so large key cities to take that are close with reach. Kyiv important as the largest city, capital and seat of power, Kharkiv as second largest city and tank manufacturer as I'm sure we all know. With both cities being so close to the Russian border odds on they will fall first and pretty quickly. In which case I can rest easy calling Kyiv, Kiev again and Kharkiv, Kharkov ;D. Unfortunately for Ukraine the geography as an independent state doesn't seem to favour them with an attack from Russia. Losing your two biggest cities likely within days if not hours is not good. If they are strong enough to keep them away and get the Russians bogged down then they will be doing very well I think but that I think is probably highly unlikely.

After that there is Odessa but I believe Russia still has some troops around Moldova, Nikolaev & Kherson are near Crimea so all three probably won't last long. Possibly if Ukraine can hold up the Russians in the bottleneck in Crimea they might slow them but it looks like the Russians may do amphibious landings, possibly parachute drops. That just leaves Central and western Ukraine and while a few fairly large cities there not a lot to work with. Odds are Russia may well start with missile attacks which Ukraine apparently doesn't have a lot of defence against then they'll move in with their troops if it all goes ahead. I can't personally see why they would be going to all this bother just for posturing.

I personally think Ukraine's military would likely fold pretty quickly under such an onslaught. Being blown to bits by missiles first then the heavy Russian armour moves in. Odds are what little may be left of Ukraine's army may run in the face of such overwhelming firepower and destruction. It could all be over fairly swiftly within a week or so with little time or ability for Ukraine to call forward reserves because of Russia's army advancing so quickly. That how I would see it likely unfolding I think.

Personally I would much rather Ukraine go on existing as an independent state. I personally think they would be best being given sone nukes back for that to happen. Unfortunately that would likely breach the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 19, 2022, 04:54:22 PM
I'm surprised there are so many Americans living in Ukraine, guess it must have caught on among them how lovely it is for the women there. With a good income/independent income a good life can be had there. There a guy can be way up the pecking order with the women on what is just a low or average salary in the UK/US.

I'm guessing the Americans and any other foreigners will flee beforehand or when it happens (assuming it happens). I think we can safely assume a fair amount will be caught unawares and be there when/if it all goes down and wonder why there are always those types around. It will be like in the movies with the US guys shouting out that they are American citizens and waving their passports around as if of high importance and as if anyone cares.


Well the Americans are not living there for the lovely climate are they.


I've been in Kiev in November and it was freezing with the wind cutting through you like a knife..flew back to London and everyone was wearing t-shirts and shorts in the warm sunshine.


Seems Ukraine has become the new Thailand,presumably with Odessa as the new Bangkok,full of old and fat Americans shacked up with young strippers ( bar girls ).
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on January 19, 2022, 05:19:29 PM
I'm no military strategist but there's questionable value in an armed invasion so I doubt it.

The primary intent of the RF is to repel NATO. With an existing internal conflict and dishonoring of the Minsk Protocol, Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO. A similar but not identical incident occurred with Georgia back in 2008.

In an all-out war the RF is equipped with operational hypersonic missiles and ICBMS, and has the world's best air defense systems (S-500). It's also shown itself to be competent in Syria (particularly in comparison to the USA military). Europe would be screwed as it would collapse economically with no Russian energy. The RF economy is more resilient due to existing sanctions so, while it would suffer, comparatively would be better placed. Current inflationary pressures may push the price of energy products (oil, gas) well above current prices. RF prefers hybrid warfare using propaganda, cyber attacks, demographics, and trade flows. China does the same thing, as does the USA (though less in terms of demographics). Both sides will prefer to play dirty games than enter a hot war.

Western powers are prodding the RF as the global banking system is utterly broken, western countries are indebted and failing. They need to create enemies - either with an invisible enemy (Covid and "anti-vaxxers") or a visible one ("evil Russians"). Don't worry you won't own anything and you'll like it as your immune system is utterly destroyed after your seventh booster shot.

This is a conflict provoked by the West that will ultimately be won by the East. Blinken and co. are playing a game of chicken... who do you think will blink first?





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2022, 05:31:27 PM

Well the Americans are not living there for the lovely climate are they.


I've been in Kiev in November and it was freezing with the wind cutting through you like a knife..flew back to London and everyone was wearing t-shirts and shorts in the warm sunshine.


Seems Ukraine has become the new Thailand,presumably with Odessa as the new Bangkok,full of old and fat Americans shacked up with young strippers ( bar girls ).

Odessa draws many Americans, I went there a few years ago and saw a fair few Americans obviously out to try their luck. The cities on the coast can have a climate more like the UK during the winter but Kyiv being further to the north likely less so. Odessa's advantage tends to be that many Turks visit which few Ukrainian girls like, even despise so us western guys can come off as a way more attractive option. As usual there is the industry girls and scammers which is supposedly big there but apart from possibly Lviv/western Ukraine is elsewhere, Nikolaev, Kyiv, Kharkiv probably Kherson. Odessa has a lovely feel to it and a nice beach, though a bit overcrowded, etc. If I were living abroad in Ukraine it would likely be where I would base myself, not too far to the border if the Russians attack and there is time to drive, train or run for it, good weather, the beach, good shops, pretty enough looking in the city centre, just about large enough to get a fair amount of women up or get some across from Nikolaev, Kherson, etc.

By comparison Lviv a nice touristy medieval city centre but no beach, a bit too small to get many women up and risk of Russian armies quickly coming down from Belarus even though near the Polish border. No other reasonably large cities nearby to get many girls up and fewer interested in leaving due to it being Ukraine's patriotic centre and nice natural surroundings, a slight western feel to the city.

Kiev very Urban city like, I like it but I prefer Odessa more I think, been there a few times now. A lot of the women there are more wealthy so likely expecting more, big city life. Some living on the outskirts be ok. Likely to be over run pretty fast as so close to the Russian border so mass panic likely to ensue possibly be hit by many missiles also so I would avoid.

Above all I wouldn't risk a plane journey out a very high risk gamble with life if any do indeed fly, very likely to get shot down by the Russians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2022, 06:09:45 PM
I'm no military strategist but there's questionable value in an armed invasion so I doubt it.

The primary intent of the RF is to repel NATO. With an existing internal conflict and dishonoring of the Minsk Protocol, Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO. A similar but not identical incident occurred with Georgia back in 2008.

In an all-out war the RF is equipped with operational hypersonic missiles and ICBMS, and has the world's best air defense systems (S-500). It's also shown itself to be competent in Syria (particularly in comparison to the USA military). Europe would be screwed as it would collapse economically with no Russian energy. The RF economy is more resilient due to existing sanctions so, while it would suffer, comparatively would be better placed. Current inflationary pressures may push the price of energy products (oil, gas) well above current prices. RF prefers hybrid warfare using propaganda, cyber attacks, demographics, and trade flows. China does the same thing, as does the USA (though less in terms of demographics). Both sides will prefer to play dirty games than enter a hot war.

Western powers are prodding the RF as the global banking system is utterly broken, western countries are indebted and failing. They need to create enemies - either with an invisible enemy (Covid and "anti-vaxxers") or a visible one ("evil Russians"). Don't worry you won't own anything and you'll like it as your immune system is utterly destroyed after your seventh booster shot.

This is a conflict provoked by the West that will ultimately be won by the East. Blinken and co. are playing a game of chicken... who do you think will blink first?

I disagree, while Russia enjoys it's game of dirty tricks I think Putin is eager to use his shiny new army. Most of Russia's old Soviet weaponry has been replaced by the latest advanced weaponry. I would guess Russia is at the height of its military rejuvenation of its replacement of old equipment with new equipment. The west the impression I get is in a more piecemeal situation, some older stuff, some newer, both varying capability. Added to that they have said they won't send in NATO troops. While that keeps us out of a WWIII situation (for now most likely) it means that Russia is presented with an almost certain clear decisive win if they go into Ukraine. Notice Russia hasn't backed off or stayed the same since they made this announcement but has in fact increased its military presence around Ukraine, ships sent to Black Sea, military sent for war games exercises in Belarus, more troops overall, etc. It's basically giving Putin the green light to attack Ukraine. Putin is getting towards being an old man now at 69 and after ruling Russia for 20 years he wants to get somewhere with it all aside a better economy and a few small gains. His looking for his place in the history books and for that taking back lost territory as he likely sees it is the sure way to do it.

You're right in the west's back being up against the wall with its indebtedness, the US couldn't afford to go on in Afghanistan so it tells Putin they can't afford a military adventure in Ukraine for long. The rest of the west is in much the same situation, the EU just can't get it together, it never really has effectively much on any front but it can't even agree with itself or members on a tiny army of a few thousand men that would be largely be way too small anyway. It has an agreement if one member is attached the rest will go to it's aid. I don't think Putin will attack an EU country as NATO tends to cover some EU countries anyway so it would likely bring the whole lot against him. I don't think he's too bothered about them, they are small each alone and not necessarily that Russian, Ukraine however I think is very much in his sights.

My guess is that after Ukraine, Georgia will be next, soft easy targets first.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2022, 06:27:45 PM
Current UK travel advice for Ukraine:

29th Dec 2021 - valid to today

"Since late March 2021, there has been a pattern of Russian military build-ups near Ukraine’s eastern border and in illegally annexed Crimea. Since the beginning of November 2021 there has been significant media coverage of heightened tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

The situation in Kyiv and other areas outside Donetsk and Luhansk is generally calm. However, events in Ukraine are fast moving. Make sure you are ready to change your plans quickly if you need to. You should remain vigilant throughout Ukraine, monitor the media and this travel advice regularly, subscribe to email alerts and read our advice on how to deal with a crisis overseas. You should keep your departure plans under close review. Renewed military action anywhere in Ukraine would greatly reduce British Embassy Kyiv’s ability to provide consular support."

Personally I think it should just say do not travel and get out if already in Ukraine. It does however say you need to try and get out quick if needed although the situation may be fast moving. Also as a result can't necessarily rely on embassy support.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2022, 08:03:47 PM
I'm no military strategist but there's questionable value in an armed invasion so I doubt it.

The primary intent of the RF is to repel NATO. With an existing internal conflict and dishonoring of the Minsk Protocol, Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO. A similar but not identical incident occurred with Georgia back in 2008.

In an all-out war the RF is equipped with operational hypersonic missiles and ICBMS, and has the world's best air defense systems (S-500). It's also shown itself to be competent in Syria (particularly in comparison to the USA military). Europe would be screwed as it would collapse economically with no Russian energy. The RF economy is more resilient due to existing sanctions so, while it would suffer, comparatively would be better placed. Current inflationary pressures may push the price of energy products (oil, gas) well above current prices. RF prefers hybrid warfare using propaganda, cyber attacks, demographics, and trade flows. China does the same thing, as does the USA (though less in terms of demographics). Both sides will prefer to play dirty games than enter a hot war.

Western powers are prodding the RF as the global banking system is utterly broken, western countries are indebted and failing. They need to create enemies - either with an invisible enemy (Covid and "anti-vaxxers") or a visible one ("evil Russians"). Don't worry you won't own anything and you'll like it as your immune system is utterly destroyed after your seventh booster shot.

This is a conflict provoked by the West that will ultimately be won by the East. Blinken and co. are playing a game of chicken... who do you think will blink first?

I agree with this analysis.  The US enjoys creating trouble for russia and provoking.  Probably part of their plan to disrupt Nordstream 2.  That way, we can sell our products for higher prices. 

In addition, I suspect Russia could unleash a blitzkrieg and level practically all of Ukraine before even entering the country if it wanted to.    The worldwide consequences would be too great for them to do that though.
 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2022, 12:43:01 AM
I agree with this analysis.  The US enjoys creating trouble for russia and provoking.  Probably part of their plan to disrupt Nordstream 2.  That way, we can sell our products for higher prices. 

In addition, I suspect Russia could unleash a blitzkrieg and level practically all of Ukraine before even entering the country if it wanted to.    The worldwide consequences would be too great for them to do that though.
 

Fathertime!   

Blitzkrieg is exactly what I think the Russians have on their cards and what they will do. They have the forces built up just for that. They don't care about the international community, they have a big enough internal market they already have sanctions so more won't harm them that much possibly the west such as Germany just as much. I fire see them hammering Ukrainian forces with missiles all at once everywhere. They may even hit the cities, if they do it will likely be all of the big major ones all at the same time. Ukraine forces won't know what hit them. The tanks and army and the rest will then move in and Ukraine will be hit so hard and fast they won't have time to regroup and organise reserves, panic will ensue and they'll flee.

Ukrainians are presently thinking under the assumption that they have already been fighting Russia's army since 2014. I think they vastly underestimate what Russia's army is really like, they haven't really been hit by their army to date, no big missiles, very few heavy tanks, etc. When/if they do they are going to be annilalated fast in very large numbers. I don't think they'll withstand it.

If anything Ukraine needs to bring up all its reserves now possibly even conscription to have the armies behind the front line armies ready which it will need. It will also need to space these troops out so they aren't taken out all in one by a missile. In addition they should organise guerilla groups of fighters, cells led by at least one trained army guy if not more of local population volunteers. Have stashes of weapons located in fairly remote locations in the ground that only the cell leaders will know where they are. Once Ukraine is over run by Russia these cells become active and move to action. Make Ukraine like another Afghanistan is the only way to do it I reckon.

Putin doesn't want to see Ukraine become any sort of NATO linked state. He'll see the only way to do that is to attack and conquer Ukraine. Trust me odds are that he'll move in. Ukraine's army as it stands at the moment is still way too weak to withstand a Russian attack they really need to throw everything they've got into it now to stand any chance. 40 something odd million people in Ukraine and most of them are complacently sat on their todd, the Ukrainian government need to get them into action.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 20, 2022, 06:05:32 AM
I don't see a blitzkrieg where major cities in Ukraine would be targeted.


The reason being there are probably millions of pro-Russians/Russians living in those cities and killing them would cause huge ramifications for Putin..with riots in Russia's cities.


It would make him a target of assassination attempts for sure.


Imagine you're a Russian in Moscow with family in Ukraine and Putin has just wiped them out..how would you react ?


I know how i'd react.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 20, 2022, 11:39:38 AM
The UK is understood to have gifted 2000 of The Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon ( NLAW),which is described by its manufacturers as "the first ever single soldier missile system that rapidly knocks out any main battle Tank in just one shot by striking it from above "to Ukraine this week.


So,that will be the Russian Tanks out of the game...their Tank crews will be crapping themselves right about now : ))



Russia ain't happy about it LOL.


The Russian Embassy to the UK posted on twitter "It is crystal clear that UK shipment of lethal weapons to Ukraine will only fuel the crisis ".


As if them sticking 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border hadn't already fueled the crisis. :rolleyes:


So come on USA we're doing our bit..it's time for you to step up too instead of your President saying he believes Russia is going to invade Ukraine and doing nothing about it....or is your leader going to dither and show Putin how weak the President of the USA truly is.?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2022, 01:40:04 PM
As if them sticking 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border hadn't already fueled the crisis. :rolleyes:


So come on USA we're doing our bit..it's time for you to step up too instead of your President saying he believes Russia is going to invade Ukraine and doing nothing about it....or is your leader going to dither and show Putin how weak the President of the USA truly is.?

The US should give a sh1t about this, or Ukraine, because...?

Do you honestly believe your country, or the US, would tempt a bloody conventional war at the least, or worst a nuclear war - over Ukraine? LMAO!

Elaborate your response please. Especially since Germany had already expressed no interest in any diplomatic or any type of economic sanctioning - much less military assistance (despite the EU primarily benefitting and salivating over the economic potential at getting Ukraine's consumers) against Russia - regardless of what RF does.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 20, 2022, 02:45:28 PM
The US should give a sh1t about this, or Ukraine, because...?



Because of the Budapest Memorandum.


Or are you happy for the rest of the World to realize the word of the USA is worthless regarding future talks with other countries  about Nuclear Arms de-escalation.?




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 20, 2022, 02:54:59 PM

Do you honestly believe your country, or the US, would tempt a bloody conventional war at the least, or worst a nuclear war - over Ukraine? LMAO!

Elaborate your response please. Especially since Germany had already expressed no interest in any diplomatic or any type of economic sanctioning - much less military assistance (despite the EU primarily benefitting and salivating over the economic potential at getting Ukraine's consumers) against Russia - regardless of what RF does.


As you're so concerned about a nuclear war ,just remember countries like North Korea will see how the USA stood by and let Russia take over Ukraine,IF the invasion happens, despite the Budapest Memorandum,,,,so NO chance of them ever giving up their Nuclear Arms as Ukraine did...making the World a more dangerous place.


Germany had no part in the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and the UK did.





That's why the USA needs to give a shit....maybe you need to read up on it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2022, 04:17:03 PM

Because of the Budapest Memorandum.

LMAO!

1. Budapest is a Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. Both the UK/US should have kept their noses off and not interfere in Ukraine's affairs. Their internal interference in 2014 Ukraine was a hostile act towards Russia.
2. Whether you realize this or not, if there ever was ANY SERIOUS interest in any military engagement with Russia because of any 'so-called' violation of the treaty', wake-up as there actually was a military conflict, and a territorial take-over of Ukraine back in 2014/2015. Did you see any UK/US enforcement of the treaty? LMAO!!!

Monroe Doctrine much?


Quote
Or are you happy for the rest of the World to realize the word of the USA is worthless regarding future talks with other countries  about Nuclear Arms de-escalation.?

You must've been napping under a snow cave in the polar region in recent 2-3 decades.

Besides, who the phuck cares what the 'world' thinks of the US.

Whatever happened to EUROs silly huffing and puffing 'no blood for oil' BS?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2022, 04:18:16 PM

As you're so concerned about a nuclear war ,just remember countries like North Korea will see how the USA stood by and let Russia take over Ukraine,IF the invasion happens, despite the Budapest Memorandum,,,,so NO chance of them ever giving up their Nuclear Arms as Ukraine did...making the World a more dangerous place.

Germany had no part in the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and the UK did.

That's why the USA needs to give a shit....maybe you need to read up on it.


LMAO!! Go send your kid ASAP! Show us your conviction dude! The Russians are coming!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdUb0FxGbOo
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2022, 05:23:09 PM
Sheeesh..even Ukrainians themselves are working with Russia!!! LMAO!

http://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-europe-russia-9c2e340dc7f23f58c2b05391dae37275 (http://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-europe-russia-9c2e340dc7f23f58c2b05391dae37275)


To think Chelseaboy is dead set in sending his kid into this quagmire to prove his conviction, baby! Funny.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2022, 05:29:17 PM
I don't see a blitzkrieg where major cities in Ukraine would be targeted.


The reason being there are probably millions of pro-Russians/Russians living in those cities and killing them would cause huge ramifications for Putin..with riots in Russia's cities.


It would make him a target of assassination attempts for sure.


Imagine you're a Russian in Moscow with family in Ukraine and Putin has just wiped them out..how would you react ?


I know how i'd react.

For me 50/50 chance that they do or don't. Theoretically it's best to have reasonably intact cities and industry when taking over territory that way it's economy isn't smashed with you having to rebuild it. The way the population feels is another factor you highlight, they are going to hate Putin/Russia if they kill their family especially as civilians on the other hand it may I instill fear useful for control. Odds are it may make the region harder to control with resistance building up.

The history of Russia tends to them not giving much care however, in the 20s or 30s I think it was that Ukraine suffered a famine and many died as a result of early forced collectivisation failures. I don't think the Russians cared much about that. Then of course all the state repression of later years, surpressing the Cossacks etc. While many Ukrainians are ethnic Russians in the East they may well identify as Russian speaking Ukrainians. Putin is a cold KGB guy my guess is that he has little care for who they are, if they end up in the way with Ukrainian fighters seeking the cities for cover where there is more protection and can bed in to fight easier in the buildings then he could well let those missiles fly and be damned whether they hit soldiers or civilians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2022, 05:48:25 PM
The UK is understood to have gifted 2000 of The Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon ( NLAW),which is described by its manufacturers as "the first ever single soldier missile system that rapidly knocks out any main battle Tank in just one shot by striking it from above "to Ukraine this week.


So,that will be the Russian Tanks out of the game...their Tank crews will be crapping themselves right about now : ))



Russia ain't happy about it LOL.


The Russian Embassy to the UK posted on twitter "It is crystal clear that UK shipment of lethal weapons to Ukraine will only fuel the crisis ".


As if them sticking 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border hadn't already fueled the crisis. :rolleyes:


So come on USA we're doing our bit..it's time for you to step up too instead of your President saying he believes Russia is going to invade Ukraine and doing nothing about it....or is your leader going to dither and show Putin how weak the President of the USA truly is.?

Those anti tank missiles/rocket launchers may help to up the casualties the Russians sustain and make it a harder, longer, bloodier fight. Many may well be taken out by Russia hitting Ukrainians army en-masse with missiles but with 2000 being gifted many soldiers with them might well avoid the missile strikes and be able to fire back when the Russian tanks roll forward.

Hopefully all this military weaponry we are gifting the Ukrainians will stand us eager young(ish) bucks in favour with Ukrainians if we ever get out there again ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 20, 2022, 06:12:24 PM
Sheeesh..even Ukrainians themselves are working with Russia!!! LMAO!

http://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-europe-russia-9c2e340dc7f23f58c2b05391dae37275 (http://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-europe-russia-9c2e340dc7f23f58c2b05391dae37275)


To think Chelseaboy is dead set in sending his kid into this quagmire to prove his conviction, baby! Funny.


You seem to be shitting yourself over there..scared you'll get called-up and sent to Ukraine to fight ? LMAO.


Don't worry,seeing as you seem to lack reading comprehension,no-one is talking about NATO military engagement/ boots on the ground as part of the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and UK just needs to make sure the Ukrainians are armed sufficiently to defend themselves which the UK is doing.


As i said in the original post,before you started having your nervous breakdown about military engagements involving the USA and UK, when is the USA going to step up and do the same ?


By the way it's common knowledge there are plenty of pro-Russian Ukrainians in Ukraine...who do you think the Ukrainian troops have been fighting for the last eight years in Ukraine ?...Do keep up.LMAO.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2022, 06:21:30 PM

You seem to be shitting yourself over there..scared you'll get called-up and sent to Ukraine to fight ? LMAO.


Don't worry,seeing as you seem to lack reading comprehension,no-one is talking about NATO boots on the ground as part of the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and UK just needs to make sure the Ukrainians are armed sufficiently to defend themselves which the UK is doing.


As i said in the original post,before you started having your nervous breakdown, when is the USA going to step up and do the same ?
.

Another stuck in first gear. Speaking of reading comprehension issues, sheesh. Get with it, will you? LMAO!

That’s what happens when the mouth is faster than the brain. Wake up, you shouldn’t be opining over things that which you’re obviously clueless with.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-ukraine-20171226-story.html?outputType=amp
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 20, 2022, 06:34:50 PM
That was four years ago....and what's happened since ?


I assume you did check the date of that article ? LMAO.


The arms you supplied helped the Ukrainians to fight some pro-Russian terrorists,which the article clearly says ...talking about reading comprehension .LMAO


Where's the arms to fight 100,000 Russian troops and Tanks and Bombers and Fighter Aircraft ?


At the risk of repeating myself....do keep up.


Tick Tock.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2022, 07:00:53 PM

You seem to be shitting yourself over there..scared you'll get called-up and sent to Ukraine to fight ? LMAO.


Don't worry,seeing as you seem to lack reading comprehension,no-one is talking about NATO military engagement/ boots on the ground as part of the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and UK just needs to make sure the Ukrainians are armed sufficiently to defend themselves which the UK is doing.


As i said in the original post,before you started having your nervous breakdown about military engagements involving the USA and UK, when is the USA going to step up and do the same ?


By the way it's common knowledge there are plenty of pro-Russian Ukrainians in Ukraine...who do you think the Ukrainian troops have been fighting for the last eight years in Ukraine ?...Do keep up.LMAO.

I don’t mean to humiliate you publicly but do tell, since you keep bringing up the silly Budapest Memorandum as your silly sticking point, where exactly does it say the US or the UK, is in anyway obligated to arm Ukraine?

Here are the 6 contents of that memorandum. Entertain me since English is your native language:

Quote
Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.

Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics.

Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.
.

This time, do yourself a favor and think before you post.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 20, 2022, 07:25:21 PM
The UK is understood to have gifted 2000 of The Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon ( NLAW),which is described by its manufacturers as "the first ever single soldier missile system that rapidly knocks out any main battle Tank in just one shot by striking it from above "to Ukraine this week.

Now that these weapons are all over Ukraine, I wonder how long before that technology winds up in Russian/Chinese hands.    Since I'm not a believer that Russia is going to be attacking Ukraine, there has to be some secondary gains they are vying for.  Perhaps this is one of many of those gains. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2022, 08:04:25 PM
Ukraine now needs so anti missile intercept missiles. That is desperately needed to nullify Russia taking out a lot of Ukraine's army in one fell swoop with lots of missile strikes on them. They then stand a chance of holding off the Russian troops a hell of a lot longer than being over run by them pretty quickly I reckon. Whether any of the stuff the Russians get their hands on eventually who knows, most technology gets pretty old quick anyway and they probably have their own similar versions it's not like there a nation playing technology catch up anymore as I see it.

My guess is that the Russians will launch an attack as soon, or soon after those six large naval ships they sent reach the Black Sea, no point in launching an attack before they get there with reinforcement from them several days away as I see it. Looks like the time it will take them to get there is probably around a week at a guess, so in about a week's time or so. So as many predict around the beginning of February perhaps.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 21, 2022, 07:27:39 AM
I don’t mean to humiliate you publicly but do tell, since you keep bringing up the silly Budapest Memorandum as your silly sticking point, where exactly does it say the US or the UK, is in anyway obligated to arm Ukraine?

Here are the 6 contents of that memorandum. Entertain me since English is your native language:
.

This time, do yourself a favor and think before you post.





If anyone has humiliated himself on this thread that would be you .


1) You're the guy who started waffling on during your panic attack about USA military engagement with Russia,including possible Nuclear attacks,over Ukraine...no-one else...you.


2) You're the one who claimed i'd be happy for my son to fight in Ukraine when i had stated twice on here previously that i do NOT want my son out there fighting...so you can stop your lying BS .


3) You're the one who attempted to hold up Germany as an example of non-help through the Budapest Memorandum when in fact they were not involved with the Budapest Agreement.


4)You're the one who held up Trump sending some arms to Ukraine in 2017 to help the fight against Ukrainian pro-separatists as an example of helping Ukraine NOW against 100k Russian troops on their border.


On every point you've been made to look a fool  and your tactic is to try and deflect your foolishness by switching to something else.


That doesn't work with me sonny boy.


We can all see the kind of person you are with your statement about why should the USA give a shit about Ukraine.


Now,regarding the Budapest Memorandum and back to my point in post 215 about why the USA needs to give a shit....you see i preempted you yet again...go back and read it again so it sinks in this time.


"Under the agreement the signatories offered Ukraine "security assurances".
Whether or not the Memorandum sets out legal obligations the difficulties that Ukraine has encountered since early 2014 may cast doubt on the credibility of future security guarantees that are offered in exchange for non proliferation commitments."

Now..security assurances don't just mean the USA and UK won't attack Ukraine..it also means we will do what we can to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Standing by and watching Russia invade Ukraine,which you want the USA to do, isn't protecting the sovereignty of Ukraine.
So the UK has sent 2000 anti-Tank missiles to Ukraine this week plus military personnel to train the Ukrainian troops how to use them....and we've gifted these missiles.
Now what has Biden done ..apart from talking hot air.?

I suggest you read properly what i post in future as it becomes tiresome having to repeat myself to you as if i'm talking with a child.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 21, 2022, 07:53:09 AM
Ukraine now needs so anti missile intercept missiles. That is desperately needed to nullify Russia taking out a lot of Ukraine's army in one fell swoop with lots of missile strikes on them. They then stand a chance of holding off the Russian troops a hell of a lot longer than being over run by them pretty quickly I reckon. Whether any of the stuff the Russians get their hands on eventually who knows, most technology gets pretty old quick anyway and they probably have their own similar versions it's not like there a nation playing technology catch up anymore as I see it.

My guess is that the Russians will launch an attack as soon, or soon after those six large naval ships they sent reach the Black Sea, no point in launching an attack before they get there with reinforcement from them several days away as I see it. Looks like the time it will take them to get there is probably around a week at a guess, so in about a week's time or so. So as many predict around the beginning of February perhaps.


I agree that Ukraine needs those missiles and also SAM systems to help defend against Russian aircraft.


They may already have these...who knows ?


If not maybe the USA/Biden might actually do something instead of just talking.


The World is watching and taking note of who stepped-up when needed....the Brits have.


Putin is watching and seeing who's weak and who isn't.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 21, 2022, 07:55:47 AM

If anyone has humiliated himself on this thread that would be you .


1) You're the guy who started waffling on during your panic attack about USA military engagement with Russia,including possible Nuclear attacks,over Ukraine...no-one else...you.


2) You're the one who claimed i'd be happy for my son to fight in Ukraine when i had stated twice on here previously that i do NOT want my son out there fighting...so you can stop your lying BS .


3) You're the one who attempted to hold up Germany as an example of non-help through the Budapest Memorandum when in fact they were not involved with the Budapest Agreement.


4)You're the one who held up Trump sending some arms to Ukraine in 2017 to help the fight against Ukrainian pro-separatists as an example of helping Ukraine NOW against 100k Russian troops on their border.


On every point you've been made to look a fool  and your tactic is to try and deflect your foolishness by switching to something else.


That doesn't work with me sonny boy.


We can all see the kind of person you are with your statement about why should the USA give a shit about Ukraine.


Now,regarding the Budapest Memorandum and back to my point in post 215 about why the USA needs to give a shit....you see i preempted you yet again...go back and read it again so it sinks in this time.


"Under the agreement the signatories offered Ukraine "security assurances".
Whether or not the Memorandum sets out legal obligations the difficulties that Ukraine has encountered since early 2014 may cast doubt on the credibility of future security guarantees that are offered in exchange for non proliferation commitments."

Now..security assurances don't just mean the USA and UK won't attack Ukraine..it also means we will do what we can to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Standing by and watching Russia invade Ukraine,which you want the USA to do, isn't protecting the sovereignty of Ukraine.
So the UK has sent 2000 anti-Tank missiles to Ukraine this week plus military personnel to train the Ukrainian troops how to use them....and we've gifted these missiles.
Now what has Biden done ..apart from talking hot air.?

I suggest you read properly what i post in future as it becomes tiresome having to repeat myself to you as if i'm talking with a child.

So what you’re saying is you’re really clueless. The memorandum content were clearly laid out to you, so instead of just covering subject points and concisely elaborate within it, you instead gave your personal idiotic rambling that have ZERO to do with the subject at hand. Resorting to 5,000 words nonsense did not deflected from this obvious fact about your stupidity.

Now run along child. You’re obviously way in over your head. Don’t let your tucked tail trip you over. Idiot.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 21, 2022, 08:03:12 AM
So what you’re saying is you’re really clueless. The memorandum content were clearly laid out to you, so instead of just covering subject points and concisely elaborate within it, you instead gave your personal idiotic rambling that have ZERO to do with the subject at hand. Resorting to 5,000 words nonsense did not deflected from this obvious fact about your stupidity.

Now run along child. You’re obviously way in over your head. Don’t let your tucked tail trip you over. Idiot.

Like I told


Err no they were not my personal ramblings idiot.


I suggest you read Wiki,..the point i made about credibility in my previous post to you was taken word for word from there .


Once again you've shown what a fool you are LMAO.


It's clear the UK Government agrees with me...despite all your idiotic ramblings...and i'd back them over some clueless nobody posting on a forum :rolleyes:



Now chew on that dopey.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 21, 2022, 09:19:34 AM
Those anti tank missiles/rocket launchers may help to up the casualties the Russians sustain and make it a harder, longer, bloodier fight. Many may well be taken out by Russia hitting Ukrainians army en-masse with missiles but with 2000 being gifted many soldiers with them might well avoid the missile strikes and be able to fire back when the Russian tanks roll forward.

Hopefully all this military weaponry we are gifting the Ukrainians will stand us eager young(ish) bucks in favour with Ukrainians if we ever get out there again ;D





You might want to get out there quick.


I've just watched the BBC news and their correspondent in Kiev said the British are particularly popular in Ukraine now after our gift of the 2000 anti-Tank missiles to them


Wear a Union Jack tie or something and you'll be feted as a hero out there..Ukraine fathers offering their daughters in marriage to you.whilst attracting admiring glances from plenty of hotties .  :popcorn:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 21, 2022, 10:06:09 AM
Released on December 15, 2009, written by Volodymyr Vasylenko:

http://day.kyiv.ua/en/article/close/assurances-without-guarantees-shelved-document (http://day.kyiv.ua/en/article/close/assurances-without-guarantees-shelved-document)


"Idealizing the Budapest Memorandum cannot and must not be a “step” in the shaping of Ukraine’s foreign policy"


Quote
...To start with, negotiations on security guarantees for Ukraine as a state that had voluntarily forsaken the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal were held not only in Budapest and not only in December 1994. Begun in April 1992 and held first with the US and then with the UK, Russia, and France, the talks ended on December 5, 1994, with the signing of the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, whereby Ukraine became a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In addition to Ukraine’s President Leonid Kuchma, this document was signed by Russian President Boris Yeltsin, US President Bill Clinton, and UK Prime Minister John Major.

China gave Ukraine security guarantees unilaterally in the governmental statement dated December 4, 1994, as did France in a declaration that was handed in to Ukraine’s delegation together with a covering letter signed by President Francois Mitterand on December 5, 1994.

As it follows from the Memorandum and the above-mentioned unilateral acts, the five nuclear states, permanent members of the UN Security Council, did not make any special commitments with respect to Ukraine – they only reaffirmed their commitment, in accordance with the principles of the UN Charter and the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence, sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine, to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, as well as from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Besides, they reaffirmed their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine should it become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used, and their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

The only specific obligation that the three nuclear states – the US, Russia, and the UK – took was that they “will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.” This means that the aforesaid nuclear states must take part in these consultations at Ukraine’s demand. However, the Memorandum has no clauses that set out the procedure of convening and conducting such consultations, making and implementing decisions, or explain the nature of sanctions against the potential offender.

The documents in which China and France gave Ukraine security assurances do not call for an institution of mandatory consultations. The Chinese declaration only says about the government’s inclination to a “peaceful settlement of differences and disputes by way of fair consultations.” The declaration of France does not mention consultations at all.

Therefore, the form and content of the Memorandum and the above-mentioned unilateral acts show that, unfortunately, the Budapest talks on giving Ukraine security guarantees did not eventually result in a comprehensive international agreement that creates an adequate special international mechanism to protect our national security. Tellingly, the authentic English-language copies of the Memorandum use the term “security assurances” which is far weaker than “security guarantees.” The unilateral declaration of France also speaks about “security assurances” (assurances de securite) rather than security guarantees....

Learn, Chelseaboy. Learn.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 21, 2022, 10:53:32 AM
The world is a cruel place.   From a tactical standpoint, I'd suspect the US would like to make sure Russia pays dearly for Ukraine.  Given that, we are probably willing to send as much assistance to Ukraine as we can get away with.  Our goal wouldn't necessarily be to save Ukraine, but to ensure that Russia incurs casualties and costs.  By doing this, it increases the chances that Ukraine would suffer increased casualties as well.   We would be using Ukrainian armed forces to satisfy our own ends.  Ultimately Ukraine will have to defend and fight for themselves.   I'm still convinced that this will not turn into a full-scale military conflict. 

As usual, I don't think the US has a leg to stand on.  We have directly/indirectly fueled discord poverty in unfavored nations the world around, which I suspect has caused deaths/suffering in the millions. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2022, 12:55:11 PM

I agree that Ukraine needs those missiles and also SAM systems to help defend against Russian aircraft.


They may already have these...who knows ?


If not maybe the USA/Biden might actually do something instead of just talking.


The World is watching and taking note of who stepped-up when needed....the Brits have.


Putin is watching and seeing who's weak and who isn't.

I read somewhere of recent that Ukraine is weak on anti-missile equipment. My guess is that they also don't have much if anything on SAM's either. Like you say they need both to avoid Russia gaining easy air superiority as that would be a disaster in any hope of holding them off. Ukraine doesn't have as much or likely as good an airforce as Russia so they won't get far with that. Looks like Ukraine's best bet is to acquire some decent anti-missile equipment and SAM's to defend against the threat from the air. I think if they had that then Putin might start to reconsider attacking Ukraine. A bloody fight is not what he would be keen on I think. To date Ukraine has presented itself as a relatively easy and vulnerable target with NATO proclaiming they won't go in ripe for the taking. The anti-tank missiles we gave them will help look a little more difficult for the Russians to fight but I don't think it's necessarily enough. The Russians still possess awesome firepower and could still likely demolish Ukraine's army very quickly. They really need to combat the sir threat to avoid being pounded, obliterated and whoever left fleeing. Ukraine is presently almost surrounded so a long line to have to defend. The Russians only need to punch a hole through one area along that line, pour in and roll their whole line up from attacking from the rear and it'll be pretty much all over fir Ukraine.

After Ukraine, Russia will be very dominant in the Black Sea and Georgia will be cut off from aid from the west. Georgia will be the next soft target too far removed to help. After that probably the stans, Putin already had a foothold in Kazakhstan so he can use that as leverage, again more soft targets and former republics of the USSR. The former Eastern Bloc countries I don't think he is too concerned about, their not necessarily in his eye. Possibly Finland if they remain outside of NATO. That's the way I see it anywhere.

This is definitely a situation that needs to be fought by proxy as far as the west is concerned. Using NATO would risk WWIII so not worth that. Equiping Ukraine with some stuff similar to that of a western nation gives it the ability to at least mount a credible defence and Putin won't be keen on attacking someone who may not just roll over as easily as they first appeared.

I think for sure though this will help us UK guys abroad in giving them the anti tank stuff. Being seen as allies and friends helps rather than being seen as foreigners who they don't feel any connection with.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2022, 01:07:12 PM
The world is a cruel place.   From a tactical standpoint, I'd suspect the US would like to make sure Russia pays dearly for Ukraine.  Given that, we are probably willing to send as much assistance to Ukraine as we can get away with.  Our goal wouldn't necessarily be to save Ukraine, but to ensure that Russia incurs casualties and costs.  By doing this, it increases the chances that Ukraine would suffer increased casualties as well.   We would be using Ukrainian armed forces to satisfy our own ends.  Ultimately Ukraine will have to defend and fight for themselves.   I'm still convinced that this will not turn into a full-scale military conflict. 

As usual, I don't think the US has a leg to stand on.  We have directly/indirectly fueled discord poverty in unfavored nations the world around, which I suspect has caused deaths/suffering in the millions. 

Fathertime!

Exactly, while a protracted military struggle may see the Russians off in the end this is about giving the Russians va hard time of it by causing them more casualties. The anti-tank stuff the UK sent will cause more casualties on the Russian side most likely. But in making Ukraine stiffer competition to beat it is like you say likely to make it a lot more bloody and hence miserable for Ukrainians. I kind of can't help feel a bit bad by sitting in a 'safe' country and discussing how these poor people are going to face being torn to pieces. While it's not my fight nor that of my nation or the US/NATO it doesn't feel great to sit back and potentially view the happenings that could quite likely unfold with an armchair view of things :popcorn: End of the day these are real people like all of us that are going to suffer real bad and I for one wouldn't like to be stuck in that situation. Families torn apart, loved ones lost, etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2022, 11:04:59 PM
An interesting article here from an interview with residents of Kharkiv on the situation:

http://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-if-someone-tries-to-take-our-freedom-again-we-will-fight-back-ukrainians-say-as-tensions-continue-12522010

Looks like beneath the surface a lot of people may be pretty worried, I don't blame them. This is in a city quite far east in Ukraine as you all know so probably a lot of Russian speakers/original ethnic Russians. I think the article rightly draws attention to whether the Ukraine Military will be able to cope with the Russian Army as it will likely be a lot harder and probably faster hitting than they have had to date. On that point of course the Russians would get the first strike in as they would attack first since Ukraine of course won't attack Russia as that would be bringing the problem on themselves for certain and the lack the capability to do it well and they won't want to give the Russians the excuse. So odds are that Ukraine's military could be blown to bits in the first strike leaving little left to fight with my guess would be.

The article gives some sterling account of Ukrainians resolve but that may unfortunately count for little at the end of the day I'm thinking. A destroyed army won't have any resolve.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 22, 2022, 06:46:03 AM

 >:D

The humiliation continues....LMAO!

1. Plagiarism is not a very cool thing to do, you know. Only idiots do that. If you can't put together a coherent statement on your own, and you have a need to resolve to cut/paste, give some reference/s.

2. If you relied on WIKI, allow me to reinforced what I suspected about you - a barking dog void of any significant bite. I say that because the very source of information you relied upon cited the following:



So now that you've successfully made a total mockery of yourself, please stop digging. I'm certain your public display of stupidity has become painfully obvious now.
 :blowkiss: 


I was entertained.


You can posture and squirm and swerve and attempt to deflect and spin as much as you like...trolls do tend to do that .


Your credibility on here is zilch.


You have been shown to be incorrect and lacking on any knowledge on many of your points..as i listed previously.


Even worse than any of that i have shown you to be a liar with your comment about my son...so anything you've previously posted or will post in the future can be taken with a pinch of salt.


Your public humiliation and exposure as a liar is complete.


I'm well aware what the word assurances mean by the way...and so does the UK Government..which is why they've gifted the 2000 anti-Tank Missiles to Ukraine  :rolleyes:


They know a bit more about the Budapest Memorandum than some drooling trolling nobody posting on here



 :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 22, 2022, 07:32:10 AM
 :popcorn:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on January 22, 2022, 12:11:32 PM
Stick to the issues and do NOT resort to petty personal insults. Continued behaviour of this sort will result in the topic being locked.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 22, 2022, 01:03:08 PM

You can posture and squirm and swerve and attempt to deflect and spin as much as you like...trolls do tend to do that .


As you can see, personal petty insult is apparently not allowed...accusation of squirming and swerving and calling one a troll, IMO, is personal insult. Do you agree Chelseaboy?

Quote
Your credibility on here is zilch.


Close to another personal insult, but I'll let that slide.

Quote
You have been shown to be incorrect and lacking on any knowledge on many of your points..as i listed previously.

Oh really?!? Let me bold those questions for better clarity:

Can you please show me how you addressed what I asked before then - PLEASE. You kept referring to the Budapest Memorandum as the justification of the US and the UK sending arms to Ukraine - which I asked VERY CLEARLY, even provide you the 6 contents of the memorandum to please show me, or explain, where in the memorandum explicitly mentioned that.

Quote
Even worse than any of that i have shown you to be a liar with your comment about my son...so anything you've previously posted or will post in the future can be taken with a pinch of salt.


The comment about your son derived from your attempt at bravado about going forth with reckless abandon and cheering for the exacerbating in getting Ukraine in an armed conflict against a far more superior nation that would likely result in untold thousands of casualties. It's akin to finding delight in a bloodbath, and with such emotions and bravado, methinks maybe you'd change your mind and request deployment of your kid, is all. Is this an option to you, or no?  UK arming Ukraine, you believe levels the field against Russia? Can anyone arm them enough to survive a war with Russia?

Quote
Your public humiliation and exposure as a liar is complete.


Oooppsss...there you were, resorted to another personal insult it seems...

Quote
I'm well aware what the word assurances mean by the way...and so does the UK Government..which is why they've gifted the 2000 anti-Tank Missiles to Ukraine  :rolleyes:

English is your native tongue, so it please point out where in the 6 contents of the memorandum cited that. It is written in English, bruddah.  :devil:

Assurance used in the cited contents relates to compliance of the bulleted contents. Again, where did it even suggested any form of military assistance. Your personal definition and usage of the word ‘Assurance’, which unfortunately webster and the rest of the English dictionary available, in hard cover or online - disagree with you. But nice try.

Quote
They know a bit more about the Budapest Memorandum than some drooling trolling nobody posting on here


LMAO! *THEY* Who are *they*? Are you referring to WIKI? I just gave you it said about ‘military assistance’! LMAO! Again, it’s written in English, man.

And are those MORE personal insult you resorted to again?

Quote
:)


Back at yah, baby  >:D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 22, 2022, 01:04:47 PM
Stick to the issues and do NOT resort to petty personal insults. Continued behaviour of this sort will result in the topic being locked.


Hi Dan-

Did you just looked at my post, deleted it, after receiving the email notification, and totally missed the instigated post/s prompting these exchanges? I'm not accusing of any bias around here, as I keep these things in check.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2022, 03:15:55 PM
Well after US talks have twice failed it looks like the UK is giving it a go:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-moscow-accepts-uk-talks-invite-amid-fears-russian-invasion-is-imminent-12522361

I don't really hold out any hope here possibly just an attempt to say we've tried and possibly a stalling action in case the Russians decide to attack early before their fleet have arrived in the Black Sea before the Ukrainian military have really gotten to grips with how to use those anti tank rocket launchers we sent them. They arrived in the country about a day ago now, my guess is that they now need to decide where they will be dispersed among Ukrainian troops. They'll no doubt need them along the whole of the Ukrainian border except that which borders Poland. 2000 anti tank rocket launchers care going to take time to distribute after deciding where they go then there is training the troops on how to use them, that may not take too long depending upon complexity, maybe an instruction manual or You Tube video.

So I'm going to guess they have about decided upon distribution and will be sending the stuff off to the front in the next day or so. So possibly after the weekend Ukrainian troops might start getting to grips with the stuff at best. Still that leaves Ukraine with problems of Russian air superiority and no doubt other issues that still need addressing.

The Tory MP mentioned in the article that he reckons conflict is inevitable and I'm thinking he is probably right.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2022, 03:23:26 PM
I'm guessing there are a lot of people in general not just on this forum who have people they know out in Ukraine, friends, family, in-laws, etc who may be in harm's way in a possible Russian Invasion. Anyone here concerned about people they know out in Ukraine who might end up having to face such a scenario?

Worst case I think will be if it ends up with Ukraine's cities being bombarded and hence shelled out. Many civilian casualties likely, homes destroyed. Then of course all the places we've visited over the years no longer as they were.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on January 22, 2022, 03:32:23 PM
The US embassy in Ukraine has requested the evacuation of all non-essential staff amid increasing fears of an imminent Russian invasion and the arrival overnight of arms deliveries promised by President Joe Biden, according to a CNN report.

US evacuations are likely to start “as early as next week”, the US cable news network said, citing a source close to the Ukrainian government. It marks the embassy’s shift in focus towards “helping Ukraine bolster its defences in the face of growing Russian aggression”.

The embassy in Kyiv also said on Twitter that the first batch of fresh US assistance had arrived in Ukraine, which includes weaponry described as “200,000 pounds of lethal aid, including ammunition for the frontline defenders of Ukraine”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/22/us-embassy-in-ukraine-requests-staff-evacuation-amid-war-fears
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 22, 2022, 06:18:19 PM
Well done the USA for stepping-up also.


It will anger GQBlues of course because he says the USA shouldn't "give a shit" about Ukraine..maybe influenced by having a Russian wife.


I'm well aware other members of this forum have Russian and Ukrainian wives but have kept a dignified silence over the ever more disturbing developments between Russia and Ukraine...some may have family members actually involved,so let us hope for everyones sake that the situation calms down and common-sense prevails to prevent war breaking out between the two countries.


Well done to Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania too for supplying US made Anti-Tank and Anti-Aircraft missiles to Ukraine today.


Personally i feel that the better armed Ukraine is the less chance Putin will invade.


In another development the German Navy Chief Vice Admiral Kay-Achim Schoenbach has had to resign after making pro-Russian/Putin comments.


 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2022, 06:44:38 PM
Indeed Grumpy, sone here will be the other side of the fence in having Russian wives/partners. While Russia's actions don't necessarily represent their standpoint for some it may not be an easy one if their other half is from the other side.

The US evacuating the families of its Embassy staff is symbolic I think. To me it looks like they are all gearing up for what may be the inevitable.

Recent update on that Russian Armada:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43965/russias-landing-ships-are-headed-to-the-mediterranean-to-join-a-growing-armada

Confirms they are headed in the direction of the Med/Black Sea. If they first conduct military exercises in the Med before moving to the Black Sea then guessing possible invasion of Ukraine could very potentially be around early February, so not long.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2022, 10:32:46 PM
Indeed the $200 million of US ammo etc will no doubt cone in handy for Ukraine.

The Baltic States are sending Ukraine anti-tank and anti-aircraft equipment, US made, the anti-aircraft stuff it will no doubt desperately need. Whether it will be enough or sufficient to take out a lot of Russian military planes who knows, they would need to I think.

http://www.voanews.com/a/blinken-authorizes-baltic-countries-to-send-us-weapons-to-ukraine/6408170.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 23, 2022, 04:32:23 AM
Indeed Grumpy, sone here will be the other side of the fence in having Russian wives/partners. While Russia's actions don't necessarily represent their standpoint for some it may not be an easy one if their other half is from the other side.

The US evacuating the families of its Embassy staff is symbolic I think. To me it looks like they are all gearing up for what may be the inevitable.

Recent update on that Russian Armada:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43965/russias-landing-ships-are-headed-to-the-mediterranean-to-join-a-growing-armada (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43965/russias-landing-ships-are-headed-to-the-mediterranean-to-join-a-growing-armada)

Confirms they are headed in the direction of the Med/Black Sea. If they first conduct military exercises in the Med before moving to the Black Sea then guessing possible invasion of Ukraine could very potentially be around early February, so not long.


NATO has announced they will also be sending ships to the Med to conduct large-scale military exercises "Neptune strike 22" starting Monday for an initial two week period.
These will include the US Aircraft Carrier USS "Harry Truman".


The Netherlands has announced they will also be sending arms  if requested by Ukraine.


In Ukraine civilians are volunteering for Territorial Defense Battalions and are training to fight a Guerrilla war if Russia invades.


Deputy PM Dominic Raab said today that it's "extremely unlikely " that British troops will be sent to Ukraine,but that the UK will do whatever else is necessary if Russia invades Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 23, 2022, 06:30:40 AM
ZIP. Nothing but hot air.

But the flip side to this is I’m glad I’m able to make significant progress in educating and enlightening greater understanding of what the Budapest Memorandum was really all about. It was in English after all.
 
Colonialism continues.

 ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2022, 11:52:20 AM
Well done the USA for stepping-up also.



Personally i feel that the better armed Ukraine is the less chance Putin will invade.
 
This seems like a dog and pony show. 
Russia leadership isn't stupid, they would have known the likelihood of additional arms being sent to Ukraine.  Despite this, they continued to delay their 'invasion', until presumably Ukraine was armed better.    Doesn't make sense, hence I don't think a genuine invasion was ever on the table as a real option.    I hold that had Russia really wanted to take over Ukraine militarily they would have done it in a flash.   They would have left no time for the west to pound their chest about preventing an invasion, that wasn't going to actually happen.  If all this is correct, then who knows what REALLY this is all about? 

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2022, 03:29:55 PM
The Budapest Memorandum was prepared in English, Ukrainian, and Russian.  It does not commit the US, or Britain, to defend Ukraine in the event of an attack.  Russia has already breached the Treaty, and continues to do so.  What current actions prove, is that Iran and North Korea would be foolish to give up their nuclear programs.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2022, 08:45:19 PM

NATO has announced they will also be sending ships to the Med to conduct large-scale military exercises "Neptune strike 22" starting Monday for an initial two week period.
These will include the US Aircraft Carrier USS "Harry Truman".


The Netherlands has announced they will also be sending arms  if requested by Ukraine.


In Ukraine civilians are volunteering for Territorial Defense Battalions and are training to fight a Guerrilla war if Russia invades.


Deputy PM Dominic Raab said today that it's "extremely unlikely " that British troops will be sent to Ukraine,but that the UK will do whatever else is necessary if Russia invades Ukraine.

Ukraine military must have seen my advice in here CB ;D

I think if Ukraine can show the Russians that they have a credible defence against many of their attacks and an invasion could prove very costly to their military then the Russians might decide not to invade. The anti-tank rockets help a lot with that and if they can get anti aircraft stuff from the Baltic States that can help also. Having a strong guerilla warfare/terrorist network already set up ready to combat the Russians may help also. Holding territory as the victor while still being attack on a long term basis, well they've been there before with Afghanistan and it's no joy. In the end a lot of occupying nation's end up pulling out of territory they won due to it just becoming too much trouble for it too control. If the Russians also think that they will have to shell a lot of the cities thereby leaving an economic wasteland that they inherit and problems they may think twice also.

I think sending weapons to Ukraine is our and their best course of action. Talk of troops on the ground has re-emerged somewhat in the UK but I think that will cause more problems by dragging us into the conflict and causing casualties on our side which will be damaging at home. As rightfully said it is ultimately Ukraine's fight.

Just a case of seeing whether it will be enough for the Russians to back of now. Apparently both sides have been calling forward more manpower and arms so that can be a dangerous situation also, kind of arms race like. Just a question of holding tight I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2022, 01:27:05 AM
Well I say it's not our fight but for some it appears so:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-the-britons-fighting-in-the-trenches-against-russians-after-starting-new-lives-12524652

Apparently it seems a good way to get a Ukrainian girl. Both these Brits are fitted up with Ukrainian wives (or to be). They've bought a house in town and are ready to defend Ukraine. Like me the guy barely speaks any Russian but that didn't stop him. So there could be go in this idea, become a war tourist earn the admiration of a local girl and hope the Russians don't attack blowing all troops to pieces in an instant.

Hmmnn.... I will have to sit and think on this one :-\

Apparently I can get residency/citizenship for life and move to the picturesque and tranquil Shirokino practically for free! :D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2022, 05:46:51 AM
The Budapest Memorandum was prepared in English, Ukrainian, and Russian.  It does not commit the US, or Britain, to defend Ukraine in the event of an attack.  Russia has already breached the Treaty, and continues to do so.  What current actions prove, is that Iran and North Korea would be foolish to give up their nuclear programs.


Which was my original point back in post 215 about other countries now not trusting the west regarding de-escalating their Nuclear weapons build-ups,  in response to GQBlues asking why the USA "should give a shit about Ukraine ", who then launched his tirade of attempted deflection posts....which didn't work. :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2022, 05:58:43 AM
Well I say it's not our fight but for some it appears so:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-the-britons-fighting-in-the-trenches-against-russians-after-starting-new-lives-12524652 (http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-the-britons-fighting-in-the-trenches-against-russians-after-starting-new-lives-12524652)

Apparently it seems a good way to get a Ukrainian girl. Both these Brits are fitted up with Ukrainian wives (or to be). They've bought a house in town and are ready to defend Ukraine. Like me the guy barely speaks any Russian but that didn't stop him. So there could be go in this idea, become a war tourist earn the admiration of a local girl and hope the Russians don't attack blowing all troops to pieces in an instant.

Hmmnn.... I will have to sit and think on this one :-\

Apparently I can get residency/citizenship for life and move to the picturesque and tranquil Shirokino practically for free! :D



Would you fancy spending weeks/months in freezing cold snow-filled trenches .?


I'm not sure you'd meet the kind of girl you like in a place like that..or be paid the money to attract her on your R&R in Odessa  :)



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2022, 06:58:43 AM
Boris Johnson has just stated in the Commons that after talks last night Germany will not go ahead with Nord stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2022, 09:31:18 AM
GB News has just been speaking to a Ukrainian who works for the Kyiv Independent and he said 32% of Ukrainians are signing-up for the Territorial Defense Batallions.


He also confirmed how popular the Brits are now and the UK is the most popular country outside Ukraine. :)


The anti-tank missile delivery is the talk of Ukraine and how it was so needed and the timing of it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 25, 2022, 09:52:01 AM
Boris Johnson has just stated in the Commons that after talks last night Germany will not go ahead with Nord stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine.

Which (In my opinion) makes it a given that Russia isn't and never intended on invading Ukraine.  So if that is the case what is really going on is a curiosity (To me). 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2022, 12:42:10 PM

Would you fancy spending weeks/months in freezing cold snow-filled trenches .?


I'm not sure you'd meet the kind of girl you like in a place like that..or be paid the money to attract her on your R&R in Odessa  :)

Yeah you have a point CB, unfortunately for Ukraine I'm not one who does well in cold weather so need warmer climates to operate. Shame as I reckon I could have turned any potential battle around for them ;D

To be honest I'm more a one man army type of guy, operating with others as a unit would just rain on my parade.

Noticed what you said below CB that is surely great news for us Brits assuming Ukraine as a country survives of course. Hopefully now they will stop scamming us and see us in a better light :)

Reckon making good on potential good will out of our country's support is probably better going as a civilian to (hopefully) enjoy the favour of the women rather than spend time in the trenches and potentially miss out on a lot or all of that.

What you say is true also, they never showed the women they were with in the report, lol!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 25, 2022, 02:57:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKf0_vi2zLE
Ahhh! Such nervous Nelly talk! What can happen? It isn't like the bombs will be exploding in America! All the dying will happen in Ukraine, and all these zealots pushing for war will get their wishes fulfilled. So I'm not even sure why EU's Josef Borrell is so nervous. After all, Ukraine is armed with British fish and chips, er..sorry anti-tank pellets. And with brass-balled Biden around, nothing can stop the home of the brave (as long as we're fighting somewhere else, heheh). So let's flatten Kyiv!!!


You just gotta love the great U-S-of-A, man!!! Especially when Democrats are ruling. I mean look at how deserted Libya's beaches had become these days!! Look at all the construction going on in Iraq and Afghanistan? We love fighting for our country and freedom on someone else's country!!!! Nothing like having another country's stooged to die for our military's benefit now, infrastructure industries later.


Hell, even the UK have a lot of economic interest with a flattened Kyiv. Imagine all the construction that will be needed when the smoke clears! LMAO. Why else would they be sending arms and push the Ukrainians into a war they can't possible win.[size=78%].[/size]
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2022, 08:50:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKf0_vi2zLE
Ahhh! Such nervous Nelly talk! What can happen? It isn't like the bombs will be exploding in America! All the dying will happen in Ukraine, and all these zealots pushing for war will get their wishes fulfilled. So I'm not even sure why EU's Josef Borrell is so nervous. After all, Ukraine is armed with British fish and chips, er..sorry anti-tank pellets. And with brass-balled Biden around, nothing can stop the home of the brave (as long as we're fighting somewhere else, heheh). So let's flatten Kyiv!!!


You just gotta love the great U-S-of-A, man!!! Especially when Democrats are ruling. I mean look at how deserted Libya's beaches had become these days!! Look at all the construction going on in Iraq and Afghanistan? We love fighting for our country and freedom on someone else's country!!!! Nothing like having another country's stooged to die for our military's benefit now, infrastructure industries later.


Hell, even the UK have a lot of economic interest with a flattened Kyiv. Imagine all the construction that will be needed when the smoke clears! LMAO. Why else would they be sending arms and push the Ukrainians into a war they can't possible win.[size=78%].[/size]

Well the Ukrainians might finally get rid of their Soviet concrete block apartments I guess. I think you're right though GQ that there is potential in destruction being wrought in Ukraine for some western nations potentially. That seems an awful thought but it's how some of the top people in the west think though, US, UK and the rest. It's kind of ironic that Ukraine sees the west as their saviours, allies what they want to get close to but what they see on the face of it isn't necessarily all of what the west is. Underneath there can be those real wealthy elite who may see more self satisfying motives for themselves.

Rebuilding itself is not in itself bad but not really caring if a conflict occurs where much misery is likely to entail to open up those rebuilding opportunities is another matter I think. My thoughts are if that came about then those wealthy western elites would be after a big stake in the investment in any future Ukraine. Ukraine wouldn't have any further option but to accept Western dominance of its country or be left with a wasteland. Essentially they would be trading Russian dominance for Western dominance and suffering a war over it. I guess it could even end up my calling in life, helping in rebuilding Ukraine if it went that way.

Anyhow this article reckons we could know whether there may be an imminent attack from Russian movements mobilizing to attack pattern:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60120217.amp

So satellite images may give us the first insight, missile units moving into position, missiles firing etc, just how much advance warning that may be detected is unclear but it's likely to be pretty short earning before it happens I'm guessing but I guess any warning is better than none. Possibly we might get the heads up from any talk of a possible attack being 'very imminent' from the US or UK government before it happens I'm guessing.

Still no certainty of an attack, Russia seems to be after the west addressing so of it's concerns perhaps. I still can't see why they would go to such a build up just over their concerns though in the way they have. Russia invaded the Crimea and an incursion into the Donbass before and along with fleet movements, etc it kind of looks like they may want a lot more Ukrainian land this time, quite possibly all of it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2022, 01:57:28 AM
The West didn't amass troops on Ukraine's border.  They didn't send provocateurs across the border in preparation for an invasion or war games.  The West wasn't responsible for cyber attacks on Ukraine, or other countries (Canada's office of Global Affairs, for example, after a statement on the ongoing conflict).
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 26, 2022, 02:43:50 AM
Well the Ukrainians might finally get rid of their Soviet concrete block apartments I guess. I think you're right though GQ that there is potential in destruction being wrought in Ukraine for some western nations potentially. That seems an awful thought but it's how some of the top people in the west think though, US, UK and the rest. It's kind of ironic that Ukraine sees the west as their saviours, allies what they want to get close to but what they see on the face of it isn't necessarily all of what the west is. Underneath there can be those real wealthy elite who may see more self satisfying motives for themselves.

Rebuilding itself is not in itself bad but not really caring if a conflict occurs where much misery is likely to entail to open up those rebuilding opportunities is another matter I think. My thoughts are if that came about then those wealthy western elites would be after a big stake in the investment in any future Ukraine. Ukraine wouldn't have any further option but to accept Western dominance of its country or be left with a wasteland. Essentially they would be trading Russian dominance for Western dominance and suffering a war over it. I guess it could even end up my calling in life, helping in rebuilding Ukraine if it went that way.

Anyhow this article reckons we could know whether there may be an imminent attack from Russian movements mobilizing to attack pattern:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60120217.amp (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60120217.amp)

So satellite images may give us the first insight, missile units moving into position, missiles firing etc, just how much advance warning that may be detected is unclear but it's likely to be pretty short earning before it happens I'm guessing but I guess any warning is better than none. Possibly we might get the heads up from any talk of a possible attack being 'very imminent' from the US or UK government before it happens I'm guessing.

Still no certainty of an attack, Russia seems to be after the west addressing so of it's concerns perhaps. I still can't see why they would go to such a build up just over their concerns though in the way they have. Russia invaded the Crimea and an incursion into the Donbass before and along with fleet movements, etc it kind of looks like they may want a lot more Ukrainian land this time, quite possibly all of it.


So..if Russia invades and flattens Ukraine...as you think they will....how will that provide work for Western companies.?


The whole point of Putin invading would be to extend the Russian territory again,as he's already done with Crimea.


Any re-building would be done by Russian companies.as was the bridge from Russia to Crimea  :rolleyes:


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 26, 2022, 02:49:48 AM
The West didn't amass troops on Ukraine's border.  They didn't send provocateurs across the border in preparation for an invasion or war games.  The West wasn't responsible for cyber attacks on Ukraine, or other countries (Canada's office of Global Affairs, for example, after a statement on the ongoing conflict).


Don't let facts spoil someone else's narrative.


The West didn't take Crimea either...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 26, 2022, 03:22:04 AM
A former member of the Ukrainian Government was interviewed on Sky News last night in Kiev and he was saying he's a bit puzzled by all the current rhetoric coming from the West....as are all the senior Ukrainian politicians he has spoken with .


He said those Russian troops have been on our borders for the last seven years..nothing has changed.....so why  all the talk about invasion now ?


The President of Ukraine was saying the same thing on tv a week ago.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2022, 04:00:44 AM

So..if Russia invades and flattens Ukraine...as you think they will....how will that provide work for Western companies.?


The whole point of Putin invading would be to extend the Russian territory again,as he's already done with Crimea.


Any re-building would be done by Russian companies.as was the bridge from Russia to Crimea  :rolleyes:

Oh, yeah I meant they only likely gain if the Russians are pushed out of Ukraine somehow after the supposed attack. It will be unlikely if Russia takes Ukraine of course. My guess is the Russians will just set up make shift accomodation for any of the displaced population to sleep in. Though a lot would tend to focus on how many survive Vs buildings left intact.

Kind of weird thinking that things could be that way. Part of me thinks the logic all suggests Putin wishes to invade but part also thinks they wouldn't really risk killing so many people, risk destroying so many peoples homes and ruining so many of their lives, would they?

It's all kind of a bit bizarre.

When you think a lot of this all came about because the EU back in 2014.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on January 26, 2022, 05:46:52 AM
A former member of the Ukrainian Government was interviewed on Sky News last night in Kiev and he was saying he's a bit puzzled by all the current rhetoric coming from the West....as are all the senior Ukrainian politicians he has spoken with .


He said those Russian troops have been on our borders for the last seven years..nothing has changed.....so why  all the talk about invasion now ?


The President of Ukraine was saying the same thing on tv a week ago.

Exactly. The the West and the MSM has started pounding the war drums focused on the Ukrainian border since Biden has been in office. One only needs to question why? "Russia, Russia, Russia" Russian troops have been there for 7 years. Russian puppets have been in charge of the Ukrainian government since the break up of the FSU. Why would Putin, love him or hate him need to invade Ukraine now? The answer is he doesn't and never has.

If you understand that NATO is the army of the Rothchilds and the WEF, that also includes the US, things might begin to get more clearer. If you look closely you'll see that Putin's Russia have been blamed for everything from Hillary losing the election to the release of secret emails and documents to war in the Middle East. Of course none of the worlds media is going to discuss this aspect. It's a case of what they are not telling us being more important than what they are telling us. Ukraine means nothing to either side of the conflict it is only where both sides are drawing the proverbial line in the sand. The Rothchilds through NATO intend to pound Putin into submission and Putin standing up to it. The deaths and destruction of Ukraine means not one wit, to either side
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2022, 07:14:38 AM
Exactly. The the West and the MSM has started pounding the war drums focused on the Ukrainian border since Biden has been in office. One only needs to question why? "Russia, Russia, Russia" Russian troops have been there for 7 years. Russian puppets have been in charge of the Ukrainian government since the break up of the FSU. Why would Putin, love him or hate him need to invade Ukraine now? The answer is he doesn't and never has.

 
You have changed your tune big time. 
Of course, I agree that the US is fomenting as much as it can.

If you understand that NATO is the army of the Rothchilds and the WEF, that also includes the US, things might begin to get more clearer. If you look closely you'll see that Putin's Russia have been blamed for everything from Hillary losing the election to the release of secret emails and documents to war in the Middle East. Of course none of the worlds media is going to discuss this aspect. It's a case of what they are not telling us being more important than what they are telling us. Ukraine means nothing to either side of the conflict it is only where both sides are drawing the proverbial line in the sand. The Rothchilds through NATO intend to pound Putin into submission and Putin standing up to it. The deaths and destruction of Ukraine means not one wit, to either side
Oh my, 'the Rothchilds'....reminds me of the good old 'pied piper' type argument again!     Well overall something is fishy, and the public doesn't hear the real truth, that I'm convinced of.



Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2022, 07:20:55 AM
A former member of the Ukrainian Government was interviewed on Sky News last night in Kiev and he was saying he's a bit puzzled by all the current rhetoric coming from the West....as are all the senior Ukrainian politicians he has spoken with .
 
Probably has to do with Nordstream 2 and energy money....anything we (The US) can do to try to enrich ourselves at others unnecessary expense.

He said those Russian troops have been on our borders for the last seven years..nothing has changed.....so why  all the talk about invasion now ?


The President of Ukraine was saying the same thing on tv a week ago.
Interesting that the president of Ukraine would be saying that, when he his nation is receiving some freebee weaponry.

Fathertime!

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 26, 2022, 10:08:45 AM

Quote
Facts

LMAO! That's certainly the most (mis)used word on this board the past 6-7 years running.

Probably has to do with Nordstream 2 and energy money....anything we (The US) can do to try to enrich ourselves at others unnecessary expense.
Interesting that the president of Ukraine would be saying that, when he his nation is receiving some freebee weaponry.

Fathertime!


You think? Germany's new social democrat administration are hedging on bailing out of any NATO's war drums. Much to the chagrin of the *protectors* of democracy and peace, of course (a.k.a. the US and the UK, NATO top-brass, which technically is still the US and the UK - LMAO), though not as much as the rest of the alliance. Heck, even Ukraine seem too placid about what's going on along their borders in comparison to news coming from the US.

Instead of sending arms and beating their war drums. Germany is setting up hospitals in the Baltics, and even in Kyiv, instead. Again, much to the angst of the symbols of peace and democracy, LMAO!. Smart move actually. One flip of the switch in Moscow, millions of Germans would instantly freeze. By the way, the word *German* needs changing. According to the US's snowflakes and numbnuts, that is just plain shameful!!! They really need to look into this soon and make changes. They should be referred to as Gerpersons from now on! Bastards, I say!!!!

Even the so-called *serious economic sanctions* BDB, the brain dead Biden - leader of the world's symbol of peace and democracy, had been waving it around like a warning stick on Moscow by threatening to shut down dollar currency against Russia (SWIFT). Germany isn't kosher to the idea either. The largest economy in EU/Europe - if that happens, Germany will be the first to stumble even before Moscow feels a ripple. But hey, its Biden. You didn't really expected him to had thought this through, did you?

Then, like a predictable stooge, flexing his 80-year muscle by calling 8,500 soldiers to be at readiness. He plans on having the first unit for immediate deployment made up of the Army's fiercest LGBTQs, blacks, Mexicans, and the Unvaccinated. Masks On!!! They will be needed to defend our country and freedom halfway around the phucking globe despite the fact Ukraine had nothing to do with $12.00 Dodger Dogs, $400.00 SOFI Stadium Parking spots, Kanye&Kim's divorce, $5.00/gal gasoline and keeping Fauci on the federal payroll.

The UK is not any better. They're sending arms and 30 'elite' fish-eating, beer-guzzling fighters to teach 45 non-English speaking Ukrainian soldiers how to use 2,000 anti-tank missiles, written in English; to neutralize the 20 Russian tanks amassed along the border. Further provoking an escalation for war over a country and its people who is being used as a dispensable pawn like they don't even matter.

Seriously, doesn't it seem rather strange that there doesn't seem to be any confrontational, heated, damning words and calls for war between Kyiv/Moscow-Zelensky/Putin that you see and read here? Yet western media is literally flooding languages of war about the 'evil empire's' imminent invasion, and plans of eating little children & *grandmas lined-up with flowers in their hands* of Ukraine.

But seriously-II, forget that for every action nets a reaction. Because in the end, it matters not who trips first, Ukraine will most certainly loses *YUGELY* if this war comes to fruition. Regardless of the why/who/how.

Having CNN/ABC/MSNBC around, who needs Al-Jazeera/RT around.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2022, 10:24:43 AM
A former member of the Ukrainian Government was interviewed on Sky News last night in Kiev and he was saying he's a bit puzzled by all the current rhetoric coming from the West....as are all the senior Ukrainian politicians he has spoken with .


He said those Russian troops have been on our borders for the last seven years..nothing has changed.....so why  all the talk about invasion now ?


The President of Ukraine was saying the same thing on tv a week ago.


There have been troops on the border since the last invasion of Ukraine by Russia.  However, the numbers have increased dramatically in the past 10 months.  Further, there were no Russian troops on Ukraine's border with Belarus in the past. 


I think those statements are intended for Putin, not the West.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2022, 10:26:21 AM
Probably has to do with Nordstream 2 and energy money....anything we (The US) can do to try to enrich ourselves at others unnecessary expense.


The US doesn't have enough natural gas to keep Europe supplied.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2022, 10:33:41 AM
. By the way, the word *German* needs changing. According to the US's snowflakes and numbnuts, that is just plain shameful!!! They really need to look into this soon and make changes. They should be referred to as Gerpersons from now on! Bastards, I say!!!!

I know you're being facetious, but German comes from Latin - Germanus.  "Vir" is "man" in Latin, so no correlation.

Quote
Seriously, doesn't it seem rather strange that there doesn't seem to be any confrontational, heated, damning words and calls for war between Kyiv/Moscow-Zelensky/Putin that you see and read here? Yet western media is literally flooding languages of war about the 'evil empire's' imminent invasion, and plans of eating little children & *grandmas lined-up with flowers in their hands* of Ukraine.

It doesn't seem strange at all.  Ukraine is the country that will bear the brunt of any bellicosity, so avoiding it is in Ukraine's best interests.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 26, 2022, 11:15:22 AM
One flip of the switch in Moscow, millions of Germans would instantly freeze. By the way, the word *German* needs changing. According to the US's snowflakes and numbnuts, that is just plain shameful!!! They really need to look into this soon and make changes. They should be referred to as Gerpersons from now on!

Germans are well prepared and have huge amounts of LNG and other fuel reserves.  IIRC 4th in the world. Although the reserves are somewhat depleted, they have enough energy to get them to summer.  They mothballed a number coal electricity plants as well instead of trashing them. They already produce about half of their electricity from renewable sources. Sure, it could get tough but they won't freeze. Certification of NordStream2 is on hold until at least June, giving them a bit of leverage as well.

Their military stance remains defensive in nature, along with supporting UN missions and humanitarian efforts for obvious historical reasons.  It will remain that way unless a direct threat is present, or article 5 of the NATO treaty is invoked.

They have been working for years to make the German language more gender neutral.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2022, 03:32:00 PM
I remember a a couple of years ago a member seemed certain that war would follow the virus. He was convinced that Russia planned to invade Ukraine and that it would happen in February. It didn't happen in the year he suspected but he seemed certain that it would be coming in a future that time of year and seemed to have the inside track, perhaps he did. Could be that this is the time and could be this February.

While signs point to an invasion to me, I still wonder if the Russians are really willing for mass devastation to unfold on their doorstep at their doing. Even if they get the land of they are left with cities to rebuild it might not be such a great edition to the Russian Federation. Possibly I guess population could move into Russia but Ukraine's economy would be truely busted I'm sure.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on January 26, 2022, 04:27:32 PM

While signs point to an invasion to me, I still wonder if the Russians are really willing for mass devastation to unfold on their doorstep at their doing. Even if they get the land of they are left with cities to rebuild it might not be such a great edition to the Russian Federation. Possibly I guess population could move into Russia but Ukraine's economy would be truely busted I'm sure.

Come on trench.... You’re hoping the invasion will happen and the economy crashes, so those hot young, mini skirt wearing models will be less picky about which man helps them escape Ukraine 😜
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2022, 04:39:54 PM
Come on trench.... You’re hoping the invasion will happen and the economy crashes, so those hot young, mini skirt wearing models will be less picky about which man helps them escape Ukraine 😜

Lol, thought never crossed my mind ;D

Seriously though personally my situation is more suited to Ukraine not getting taken over by Russia in many ways. Possibly it might ignite a ban on westerners being able to visit Russia not to mention no visa-free independent Ukraine anymore. I personally would genuinely be horrified to see devastation being brought on Ukrainian people, some have been nice during my time there and it's not nice to see anyway.

If anything is going to happen odds are it will likely be in February, possibly early February. This article tells us that more Russian naval ships are out to conduct military drills:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/russian-warship-flotilla-spotted-off-norway-probably-bound-for-irish-coast-1.4786382

3rd - 8th Feb near Cork, Ireland they reckon. Could that co-inside with a Russian attack on Ukraine? A case of basing naval ships near western countries as a safeguard against any thought of western countries moving in to help Ukraine in a snap change of mind.

Boris Johnson can't seem to decide whether to send troops in or not in recent reports. I personally don't think he will send troops into Ukraine it's too much of a gamble I reckon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 26, 2022, 05:24:04 PM

So..if Russia invades and flattens Ukraine...as you think they will....how will that provide work for Western companies.?


That's a toughie (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-finalizing-plans-to-divert-gas-to-europe-if-russia-cuts-off-supply/ar-AAT7PuJ?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz)...let me think.

Too bad the Nord Stream 2 project was so close to finishing. Dammit!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2022, 06:04:25 PM

That's a toughie (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-finalizing-plans-to-divert-gas-to-europe-if-russia-cuts-off-supply/ar-AAT7PuJ?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz)...let me think.

Too bad the Nord Stream 2 project was so close to finishing. Dammit!!
Since all us numbskulls have concluded it's all about Nord Steam 2/money, I would assume all the key countries in this also know. IF what we are saying is correct, then what does each country get for playing along with the charade.   Assuming there is no invasion, I wonder who is going to be the real loser in this 'fracas'. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 26, 2022, 06:35:52 PM
I know you're being facetious, but German comes from Latin - Germanus.  "Vir" is "man" in Latin, so no correlation.

Hhhmm…here I thought it was Germani.

Besides, there’s nothing facetious with current social progressive attitude in the US today. Sarcastic? Maybe.

Quote
It doesn't seem strange at all.  Ukraine is the country that will bear the brunt of any bellicosity, so avoiding it is in Ukraine's best interests.

Not sure how this related to what I said. ‘Strange’ was used to compare the distinct difference in the seeming attitude displayed so far by Kyiv/Zelensy vs the near-panicked coverage by the US media.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2022, 08:34:11 PM
Apparently the UK Defence Chief thinks a Russian-Ukraine war is inevitable. He also is certain that there are a large number of Russian spies & special forces already in Ukraine, so the clock is ticking:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/special-forces-bid-save-brits-26048368.amp

The SAS are apparently over there practicing for an evacuation of British citizens.

Ordinary Ukrainians seem to be finally jumping up and getting involved in fighting for their nation including this old Mother:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-mum-buys-huge-rifle-26047160

Looks like she really went nuts and shelled out on some of the best gear going! Arms dealers must be making a fortune out all of this. With so much panic buying of guns & gear going on they might be a shortage of weaponry to buy soon like our big toilet paper crises.

Could mean though that more chance of the Russians just dumping their huge hyper thermal nuclear missiles on Ukrainian cities completely leveling them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2022, 10:03:16 PM
This Ukrainian General reckons that Ukraine may be most likely to be invaded around the 20th Feb when the Winter Olympics end and Russian war games in Belarus. Maybe, apparently the Winter Olympics are in China.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-general-hints-potential-date-26054672

I'm still not so sure, it's feasible but they may just end any war games early and not care about the Olympics and attack. The longer the Russians wait the longer the west have to send some decent anti aircraft and anti missile stuff.

He reckons an attack is not inevitable. After getting everyone worked up it might of course come to nothing.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 26, 2022, 10:19:38 PM
This Ukrainian General reckons that Ukraine may be most likely to be invaded around the 20th Feb when the Winter Olympics end and Russian war games in Belarus. Maybe, apparently the Winter Olympics are in China.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-general-hints-potential-date-26054672

I'm still not so sure, it's feasible but they may just end any war games early and not care about the Olympics and attack. The longer the Russians wait the longer the west have to send some decent anti aircraft and anti missile stuff.

He reckons an attack is not inevitable. After getting everyone worked up it might of course come to nothing.

Trench, you seem to the only person getting worked up about this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2022, 11:40:54 PM
Trench, you seem to the only person getting worked up about this.

If you see the article on Ukrainian civilians buying guns then you'll see that Ukrainians are getting worked up. I think this situation has interesting elements to it such as foreign fighters getting involved etc.

I think for sure though that for us on this board that it's probably getting to the point where not a lot more will happen unless the Russians actually do go in. I think it's pretty much at the point where there is little more to get worked up on and we just sit this one out and wait and see.

I'll probably continue to contact Ukrainian women but don't think I'll be visiting until Russian troops have stood down. Hopefully Ukrainians won't end up going crazy fighting each other with all their arms they've bought themselves by then.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2022, 03:45:22 AM
Apparently, it's possible to join the Ruskies as well as a foreign fighter:

http://coffeeordie.com/foreign-fighters-ukraine-russian-invasion/

Towards the end of the article it tells us about 1,300 have done so mainly from Germany, Serbia, etc.

So take you're pick, anyone here thinking of joining up on either side? Or out in Ukraine at the moment?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on January 27, 2022, 05:43:30 AM
Come on trench.... You’re hoping the invasion will happen and the economy crashes, so those hot young, mini skirt wearing models will be less picky about which man helps them escape Ukraine 😜

no no no, if Russia in some way annexes Ukraine he would be forced to pay for Visa to visit, that is out of the question for the piss poor Trench, he told us so many times now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 27, 2022, 08:40:18 AM
no no no, if Russia in some way annexes Ukraine he would be forced to pay for Visa to visit, that is out of the question for the piss poor Trench, he told us so many times now.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. :thumbsup:

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 27, 2022, 10:37:17 AM
Ka-Ching!!!!!

Here we go fellas! We are again in desperate need to feed the beast! Screw the citizens of Ukraine! The US is in supersonic gear to hasten this war and push you guys in the brink of massive devastation. Regardless of what Ukrainians or even Zelensky feels about their situation, the US is the ultimate judge of their welfare.

ONE DAY after the meeting held, this happened:

Russia-Ukraine Crisis Deescalating As NATO Countries Break From Bellicose US-UK Stance

http://zububrothers.com/2022/01/25/russia-ukraine-crisis-deescalating-as-nato-countries-break-from-bellicose-us-uk-stance/

Yet Nanci Pelosi didn't want to waste any time at all, despite the sentiment expressed about de-escalation.

"..hastening a war-friendly posture without opportunity for dissent as concerns over a military invasion abound."

http://theintercept.com/2022/01/25/ukraine-defense-bill-democrats/ (http://theintercept.com/2022/01/25/ukraine-defense-bill-democrats/)

Whenever there's a *bipartisan* teamwork legislated by our politicians, WORLD WATCH OUT!!! The US desperately need to protect our liberty and freedom and cash in at your expense.

Cute.

This is what the other aisle is saying and believe about the situation in Ukraine:

Quote
Ukraine’s NSC Sec. Danilov tells BBC_UA he doesn’t expect an imminent invasion and doesn’t share “the panic,” which he connects to “geopolitical and domestic” processes in the West: “The buildup of Russian troops [at the Ukrainian border] isn’t as rapid as some claim”[/color]

http://twitter.com/atanessi/status/1485668665211199492]http://twitter.com/atanessi/status/1485668665211199492

Quote
Another top Ukraine official says there's no imminent threat of a new Russian invasion. Danilov of @ NSDC_ua says West has it wrong. So is West blowing this out of proportion? Does US have intel it's not sharing with Kyiv? Is Kyiv deliberately downplaying?"

http://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1485680489591721997

If any of you still believes 2014 was a grassroot movement, go hug Fauci in the hallways. It took longer than planned, but those deplorables decided to get someone else in 2016 other than Hillary at the helm. But that's all behind us now, so onward to the show.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2022, 03:09:41 PM
Russian Amphibious naval ships have entered the Med and look to be heading to the Black Sea:

http://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russian-landing-ships-enter-the-mediterranean-sea/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 28, 2022, 06:52:15 AM
According to good old CNN, Ukraine has had about enough of the US trying to fan the flames of war.    So if Ukraine is fed up with us, why are we still there pretending to 'defend' them? 

New discord between Ukraine and US plays right into Putin's hands

New signs of a fracture between the US and Ukraine over the imminence of a possible Russian invasion could seriously undermine President Joe Biden's muscular front against Vladimir Putin in their escalating standoff.

Frustration in Kyiv has mounted in recent days over escalating US rhetoric on the crisis, even as Moscow pours more troops into positions near the Ukrainian border. Washington and its allies have been waging an unusually open and vocal public relations warfare campaign -- an approach that primarily appears rooted in genuine fears of a major conflagration in Ukraine.


  http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/president-joe-biden-zelensky-putin-russia-ukraine/index.html  (http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/president-joe-biden-zelensky-putin-russia-ukraine/index.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 28, 2022, 07:00:33 AM
The US/UK desperately need another ‘war’. It’s been 4 long months! Flatten Kyiv so we can again flood the region with weapons of war.

Ka-Ching!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2022, 11:11:53 PM
According to good old CNN, Ukraine has had about enough of the US trying to fan the flames of war.    So if Ukraine is fed up with us, why are we still there pretending to 'defend' them? 

New discord between Ukraine and US plays right into Putin's hands

New signs of a fracture between the US and Ukraine over the imminence of a possible Russian invasion could seriously undermine President Joe Biden's muscular front against Vladimir Putin in their escalating standoff.

Frustration in Kyiv has mounted in recent days over escalating US rhetoric on the crisis, even as Moscow pours more troops into positions near the Ukrainian border. Washington and its allies have been waging an unusually open and vocal public relations warfare campaign -- an approach that primarily appears rooted in genuine fears of a major conflagration in Ukraine.


  http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/president-joe-biden-zelensky-putin-russia-ukraine/index.html  (http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/president-joe-biden-zelensky-putin-russia-ukraine/index.html)

Fathertime!

FT, Ukrainians are shitting themselves and are starting to crack psychologically. It's not just Zelensky, the funny man who no longer seems to find things so cheerful, Ukrainian girls I message online well at first they were acting not so concerned, now they are increasingly overtly showing their distress. It's got to be a distressing situation being surrounded by the military of a much more powerful neighbour particularly as time gets on and the build up gets steadily larger.

I think Zelensky is partly right in what he says I don't think the west care that much in whether the situation gets wound up so that both Russia and Ukraine get into a more tense situation.

That said Ukraine wanted help so they were partly to blame on that one also I think. The military equipment help might well end up causing Ukraine worse problems as a result unless they get lucky and Russia is dissuaded by it. Last night I was watching a demo of the anti-tank stuff we sent them, they have just begun training with it. I'll be honest, it was ok but I'm not so sure the range is all that brilliant on it, not for modern warfare where a tank can blast away from a distance away. It will probably take out some tanks and when it hits home it seems to do that but unless it can fire further away then I'm not so sure. I'm no expert on that stuff, the range was a fair distance just not really far from what I could make out.

Possibly Zelensky might be catching onto the fact that he could well end up in the pocket of either the US camp or Russia in terms of Ukraine being controlled by a puppeteer from behind the scenes. Sure they want NATO but my guess is that they won't be so keen on US money interests holding sway in Ukraine and calling the shots. They're best hope is in avoiding war happening otherwise either the US or Russia could become their new masters.

Ukraine becoming the playground of the US, an interesting prospect.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 29, 2022, 06:25:02 AM
FT, Ukrainians are shitting themselves and are starting to crack psychologically. It's not just Zelensky, the funny man who no longer seems to find things so cheerful, Ukrainian girls I message online well at first they were acting not so concerned, now they are increasingly overtly showing their distress. It's got to be a distressing situation being surrounded by the military of a much more powerful neighbour particularly as time gets on and the build up gets steadily larger.

I think Zelensky is partly right in what he says I don't think the west care that much in whether the situation gets wound up so that both Russia and Ukraine get into a more tense situation.

That said Ukraine wanted help so they were partly to blame on that one also I think. The military equipment help might well end up causing Ukraine worse problems as a result unless they get lucky and Russia is dissuaded by it. Last night I was watching a demo of the anti-tank stuff we sent them, they have just begun training with it. I'll be honest, it was ok but I'm not so sure the range is all that brilliant on it, not for modern warfare where a tank can blast away from a distance away. It will probably take out some tanks and when it hits home it seems to do that but unless it can fire further away then I'm not so sure. I'm no expert on that stuff, the range was a fair distance just not really far from what I could make out.

Possibly Zelensky might be catching onto the fact that he could well end up in the pocket of either the US camp or Russia in terms of Ukraine being controlled by a puppeteer from behind the scenes. Sure they want NATO but my guess is that they won't be so keen on US money interests holding sway in Ukraine and calling the shots. They're best hope is in avoiding war happening otherwise either the US or Russia could become their new masters.

Ukraine becoming the playground of the US, an interesting prospect.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Ukrainians are pretty calm and just getting on with life as normal.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 29, 2022, 07:41:13 AM
Meanwhile, in the real world, Ukrainians are pretty calm and just getting on with life as normal.

They are getting on with life as best as normal as that's all they can do really. They are trying to remain calm of course but it's more a mask that is beginning to slip.

Here is the latest from a Putin insider who reckons that Ukraine would be finished within 48 hours:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10454611/Putins-build-forces-Ukraine-border-biggest-Cold-War-says-USs-general.html

With the devastating weapons at Putin's hands he may well be right.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 29, 2022, 07:49:18 AM
Yet with all these devastating weapons Russian armed forces were defeated in Afghanistan . :rolleyes:


15,000 of their armed forces  were killed out there before they had to withdraw.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 29, 2022, 08:44:43 AM


Ukraine becoming the playground of the US, an interesting prospect.

I don't think it will get to that point.  I don't think anybody wants that, aside from the US.

They are getting on with life as best as normal as that's all they can do really. They are trying to remain calm of course but it's more a mask that is beginning to slip.

Here is the latest from a Putin insider who reckons that Ukraine would be finished within 48 hours:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10454611/Putins-build-forces-Ukraine-border-biggest-Cold-War-says-USs-general.html

With the devastating weapons at Putin's hands he may well be right.

This will not happen either. 

Yet with all these devastating weapons Russian armed forces were defeated in Afghanistan . :rolleyes:


15,000 of their armed forces  were killed out there before they had to withdraw.
In recent times, war isn't what it could be.   For example, Russia could completely annihilate Ukraine.  The US could have wiped out every single person in Iraq/Afghanistan and avoided defeat.  It just doesn't seem to work that way anymore.  Militarily Partial victory, partial loss is all nations seem to strive for. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 29, 2022, 09:24:03 AM
They are getting on with life as best as normal as that's all they can do really. They are trying to remain calm of course but it's more a mask that is beginning to slip.

Here is the latest from a Putin insider who reckons that Ukraine would be finished within 48 hours:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10454611/Putins-build-forces-Ukraine-border-biggest-Cold-War-says-USs-general.html

With the devastating weapons at Putin's hands he may well be right.
Yes, the Daily Mail is such a great news source.  :clapping: :clapping:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 29, 2022, 09:26:36 AM
Yet with all these devastating weapons Russian armed forces were defeated in Afghanistan . :rolleyes:


15,000 of their armed forces  were killed out there before they had to withdraw.
Traditional war fighting and weaponry is not much use against asymmetrical warfare and insurgencies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 29, 2022, 09:28:51 AM
Due to the anticipated massacre of the Ukrainian troops, despite being armed with highly ineffective near-obsolete British anti-tank missiles. France, in partnership with Canadian 'Tony Starks'-like war making wizards, decided to immediately shipped their highly secretive anti-tank weaponry. It is held by the Pentagon as the 'Equalizer'.


1,000 arrive late Friday afternoon, with 3,000 more in transit.


The first line of rehearsals were immediately conducted to put the fear on the Russian troops amassed along the frontline. Videos were uploaded on social media as part of propaganda campaign by the western powers. Pentagon intelligence have compiled proofs that both troops on the frontline are taking photos and videos of their locations, along with classified intelligence of troops movements, to their girlfriends on Tik Tok, Instagram and Facebook.


Here's the first devastating drill that took place last evening: Caution: For the weak of heart, please do not watch.


http://youtu.be/0owMuOuIuRw (http://youtu.be/0owMuOuIuRw)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on January 29, 2022, 09:29:04 AM
I don't think it will get to that point.  I don't think anybody wants that, aside from the US.

This will not happen either. 
In recent times, war isn't what it could be.   For example, Russia could completely annihilate Ukraine.  The US could have wiped out every single person in Iraq/Afghanistan and avoided defeat.  It just doesn't seem to work that way anymore.  Militarily Partial victory, partial loss is all nations seem to strive for. 

Fathertime!
When the enemy is the population at large who do you reply heavy weaponry against?
Tanks are of no use against an enemy that fights from the shadows.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 29, 2022, 09:41:56 AM


Here's the first devastating drill that took place last evening: Caution: For the weak of heart, please do not watch.


http://youtu.be/0owMuOuIuRw (http://youtu.be/0owMuOuIuRw)

Did it explode on them afterwords?  The panicked scream indicates danger.

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 29, 2022, 10:33:14 AM
Our world is in turmoil. Ukraine had once again became the knot in the political tugging rope between global forces that constantly shun any sense of moral, responsibility, integrity and respect especially to the less advanced countries we label as 3rd world.

While Ukraine can not be classified as 3rd world, its current plight of having to balance its alliance today put it in a very unenviable, compromising and dangerous predicament.

Is an alliance with Russia really all that bad? Historically, it was both bloody, yet fulfilling. More or less depending on your perspective.

Is an alliance with Europe going to be good or bad? Historically, you need not look back a hundred years and understand the genocidal experience Ukrainians have had to endure at the hands of Europeans.

What about the US? Well, while there hasn't been much history with the US, Ukrainians need to simply excuse themselves in projecting what an alliance is like with the US, but just look at the many south American nations still skimming for survival much less prosperity in the shadows of Uncle Sam. Personally, especially the last quarter century, heightened in the past 10; American in my eyes, have completely lost what it ever stood for as that beacon on a hill.

All of these madness by the power nations against countries still reeling from the colonial era continues today. Albeit in many varying covert ways. Citizens of these nations have been blinded by their respective government it commits against humanity in so many varying forms.

The US bombing of the aid worker and his entire family, in the act of providing aid to the needy, and simply classified as an honest mistake. US soldiers caught pissing over dead Afghan Taliban soldiers in front to Afghans and children and laugh about it. These soldiers come home and are celebrated as heroes, thanks for their 'services'. We wonder why, Afghans didn't seem to be fully on board with the US showing them our type of democracy. As an America, the once United States, I laid witness front and center how 'we' conduct and orchestrate 'democracy', we force to everyone, here, I don't take long anymore to not take this seriously anymore either.

Terrorists, Jihadists, Pirates, etc...our societies have labeled these militants as the legions of evil these days. How can these demons behave this way in the 21st centuries. Refugees of global commerce...

Pirates. Remember the Somalian pirates? Ever wonder why Somalians have the need to become 'pirates'? Breaking maritime international law by capturing civilians/commercial ships, boarding it under artillery, demanding ransom?

So I ask, what would you do as an ordinary Somalian trying to feed your famished family when your own fishing grounds you once relied upon have all become sterile, if not hazardous to fish on? Western media have never told European citizens outright exactly why there are Somalian pirates terrorizing waters in and around their nation. Complicit in dumping their nuclear, toxic waste on Somalia, along with other African nations, are Germany, Italy, and France. Nations chiefly behind *sustainable energy, climate change/global warming initiatives, etc.../Paris Accord/ Kyoto Treaty*. Same nations that will brag to you about 'advancing their societies like no other.

What they won't tell you, just as it was in the documentary Darwin's Theory, and in some respect what is happening in Ukraine today - the fate that may befall upon them; trade its citizens their criminal complicity in exchange for weapons of war. Europeans dumped their toxic/nuclear waste in these countries territorial waters. Paving the way for future of these nations to remain at the mercy of the 'elite' amongst us.

http://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dumping-ground (http://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dumping-ground)

http://www.inigerian.com/environmental-racism-dumping-europes-toxic-wastes-in-africa-other-poor-countries/ (http://www.inigerian.com/environmental-racism-dumping-europes-toxic-wastes-in-africa-other-poor-countries/)

So yes, in the end I do feel so sorry for Ukraine, it matters not whether this war actually breaks out. Because either way, they are in a situation to having to choose to partner with the Devil they know, and the Devil they don't.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 29, 2022, 07:14:32 PM

What about the US? Well, while there hasn't been much history with the US, Ukrainians need to simply excuse themselves in projecting what an alliance is like with the US, but just look at the many south American nations still skimming for survival much less prosperity in the shadows of Uncle Sam. Personally, especially the last quarter century, heightened in the past 10; American in my eyes, have completely lost what it ever stood for as that beacon on a hill.


5 years ago this site would have had another riot when I made similiar statements.  Nowadays many of the same posters know it is mostly true. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 29, 2022, 09:42:27 PM
In theory instead of spheres of influence I think the old Eastern bloc countries would be better off as neutral zone classified do neither Russia nor NATO have any influence over either, they can't be a part of NATO nor the Russian Alliance. Both essentially agree to keep out, those countries may band together to form their own joint defence force or may call on either NATO or Russia if one of them were to invade. In addition Russia would have to agree not to conduct Invasion scale of exercises near their border, NATO too obviously as well.

I also think that the former Eastern Bloc countries would be better off in their own East European Union rather than the EU. They basically have a different culture to west European countries and trying to get them to fit into that straight jacket isn't good for them or the EU. I think a lot of this goes back to wrong choices made in the nineties at the end of the cold war/break up of the USSR. One of those was Ukraine giving up all of its nuclear missiles, to my mind they should have kept about a hundred of those missiles of the 5000 or so. In that way they wouldn't be were they are now but still have something of a reasonable size to deter any aggression.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 30, 2022, 07:16:51 AM

In theory instead of spheres of influence I think the old Eastern bloc countries would be better off as neutral zone classified do neither Russia nor NATO have any influence over either, they can't be a part of NATO nor the Russian Alliance. Both essentially agree to keep out, those countries may band together to form their own joint defence force or may call on either NATO or Russia if one of them were to invade. In addition Russia would have to agree not to conduct Invasion scale of exercises near their border, NATO too obviously as well.

And who would decide what these sovereign states should do or not do? Russia and the US?  Funny thoughts Trench but a bucket full of nothing.

Quote
I also think that the former Eastern Bloc countries would be better off in their own East European Union rather than the EU. They basically have a different culture to west European countries and trying to get them to fit into that straight jacket isn't good for them or the EU.

Total BS. EU is as diverse as it gets with 24 or so official languages just to mention one point. It is an economic and political union with political, legal and trade frameworks, not a cultural one.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 30, 2022, 08:14:08 AM
5 years ago this site would have had another riot when I made similiar statements.  Nowadays many of the same posters know it is mostly true. 

Fathertime!

True. 5 years ago, you were part of the silly ‘resistance’ on this board who subscribed, advance and spread *misinformation / disinformation* aka fake news, skimmed from mainstream media like CNN, MSNBC trying so hard to subvert the 2016 election result. Posted many of those fake news as support of their ‘proof’.

Yeah, I remember. All your posts, and others, are still here.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2022, 08:41:00 AM
True. 5 years ago, you were part of the silly ‘resistance’ on this board who subscribed, advance and spread *misinformation / disinformation* aka fake news, skimmed from mainstream media like CNN, MSNBC trying so hard to subvert the 2016 election result. Posted many of those fake news as support of their ‘proof’.

Yeah, I remember. All your posts, and others, are still here.

I don't think so.  I don't think I disputed Donald Trump won the election in 2016.  I recall thinking he DID win the election.   I do remain suspicious of what his surrogates did behind the scenes although he did win the election, by any means necessary....which is typical for US elections. 

I was referring to comments made regarding what the US was doing globally, mostly in the Obama years so it would have been 2014-2016 era. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 30, 2022, 09:03:01 AM
Did it explode on them afterwords?  The panicked scream indicates danger.

Fathertime!

Looks scary, but actually more dangerous walking across a crosswalk.  Such can and does happen with any weapons system.  There are multiple safety systems to prevent detonation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 30, 2022, 09:04:53 AM
Yeah, I remember. All your posts, and others, are still here.

Maybe show instead of tell.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2022, 09:19:54 AM
Looks scary, but actually more dangerous walking across a crosswalk.  Such can and does happen with any weapons system.  There are multiple safety systems to prevent detonation.

Yeah, either way.....I think I'd crap my pants if that 'dud' dropped 3 feet from me

Maybe show instead of tell.
I'm curious what he can come with it, using words of mine, in context.   Probably a mostly false statement he made.  That said, I'm sure I posted some articles regarding trump and how his surrogates were accused of courting Russia.   I still believe that is probably true, yet the election happened because Trump had a lot of support from key states (At the time), in the US.    Four years later, he lost some of that support, and awakened others to vote, and Biden is at the helm now. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on January 30, 2022, 09:48:33 AM
Maybe show instead of tell.

Cute.

I'm curious what he can come with it, using words of mine, in context.   Probably a mostly false statement he made.  That said, I'm sure I posted some articles regarding trump and how his surrogates were accused of courting Russia.   I still believe that is probably true, yet the election happened because Trump had a lot of support from key states (At the time), in the US.    Four years later, he lost some of that support, and awakened others to vote, and Biden is at the helm now. 

Fathertime! 

It’s been said, answers are closer than they appear. One just needs to be a bit more focus.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 30, 2022, 10:17:32 AM
And who would decide what these sovereign states should do or not do? Russia and the US?  Funny thoughts Trench but a bucket full of nothing.

Total BS. EU is as diverse as it gets with 24 or so official languages just to mention one point. It is an economic and political union with political, legal and trade frameworks, not a cultural one.

Most (but not all) of the Eastern Bloc countries are Slavic and most have had the Soviet culture become a part of their culture, Patriarchy, Stoic, working people, hardness, and the men prone to alcoholism.

Their ways and outlook are pretty similar. The EU is a west European contrived concept full of west European values. It was formed as the EC/EEC during Soviet times and even when it became the EU after the fall of the Soviet Union the Eastern Bloc countries didn't join until way later in the 21st century.

"It is an economic and political union with political, legal and trade frameworks, not a cultural one."

That is what a lot of countries don't like or didn't/don't want, first the UK now Poland, Hungary and Romania don't want. The EU are ignoring culture band trying to weld everyone into the same boring non-culture of their bureaucratic requirements. People didn't really want a union in many parts of Europe they just wanted an association. By spreading itself over many different cultures the EU has caused itself problems with being an effective organisation for its member states. The EU actually worked way better when it was just western Europe, it was small enough to take its member considerations into account, it may not have been perfect but it worked more effectively for its members. The EU expanding to the Eastern Bloc is really where it couldn't focus on being effective for its members and turned into a bloated power hungary with little interest in what its members wanted.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2022, 03:05:08 PM
Stop with the inaccurate stereotypes, Trench.


Slavic culture is not monolithic. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2022, 03:32:35 PM


It’s been said, answers are closer than they appear. One just needs to be a bit more focus.

(http://i.discogs.com/FxZmRpIXHGbihvdXhxwJlr7mhRxbGjq7CqAc0C9x5PU/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:529/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWltYWdlcy9SLTM4/NDM1OTMtMTUzNTkw/NDY1NS02OTExLmpw/ZWc.jpeg)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 31, 2022, 05:18:08 AM
Stop with the inaccurate stereotypes, Trench.


Slavic culture is not monolithic.

I know they're not all the same or necessarily that similar but even a related connection coupled with the Soviet times, working class culture it will give some similarities in my view.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2022, 12:19:24 PM
Well, your view would be wrong.


You picked up the term "working class" from my posts, and you misunderstand it.


Poland, for example, was very different, culturally, from Russia.  So was East Germany.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 01, 2022, 01:03:12 AM
Well, your view would be wrong.


You picked up the term "working class" from my posts, and you misunderstand it.


Poland, for example, was very different, culturally, from Russia.  So was East Germany.

Originally yes but didn't the Russians eliminate the Polish Army Officer corps during Soviet times. That and WWII and likely the usual Soviet system placed on them would make their outlook somewhat similar moreso than western Europe I would have thought. Add in the usual Soviet concrete block Architecture, etc and it's all shapes them I believe.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 01, 2022, 11:02:03 AM
Nope.  Poland was not like the USSR.  Ever.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 02, 2022, 10:24:05 AM
Kind of thinking we might have put off the Russians on this whole invasion thing. I think the combination of the anti tank, etc gear and the large numbers of civilians wiling to take up arms may have swung it. End of the day if Russia trues to obliterate cities in Ukraine with its missiles it will destroy the population and the housing. Russia doesn't really have a growing population so it doesn't help it much to inherit a wasteland if blown apart cities and industry and few people to be there.

Even if Russia were to pick through it piece by piece it would likely be a problem.

Looks like Putin is moving more towards what minor agreements may be made with the west as a face saving way out in my opinion. Still no certainties I guess, just a case of seeing what comes it seems.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 03, 2022, 09:46:29 AM
With the latest US attempt to further provoked war in Ukraine, it incoherently moved 3,000 troops to Romania yesterday. Why is this incessant need to place Ukraine in an unenviable predicament to be at the center of this mindless confrontation.


Sen. Josh Hawley this week asked this very obvious obsession. He proclaimed that if war can be avoided by agreeing to abide by Russia's request that Ukraine cannot be made a member of NATO, a sentiment broadly shared by many western European alliance, why is it so hard for us (the US) to see this through? Ukraine can still be whatever it wished to be without having to be a NATO member. Especially considering it will be front and center of a devastating war as a consequence.


The US instigated a 2014 coup to open this avenue. It resulted in an ugly civil war. Ukrainians dearly suffered for it. Now that you have pretty much the same DC players at the helm, we are taking the next step we sprung in 2014. This is simply madness.


Yesterday, when asked about Josh Hawley's statement, Jen Psaki's response at the press briefing was to accuse Hawley as parroting Russian propaganda. Had the US really changed its ideal this dramatically? Have we really sunk this low?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiy9KOR4PfY[/c]


WTF?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 03, 2022, 09:59:29 AM
Why should Russia get to decide if Ukraine, an independent sovereign nation, can, or cannot join NATO?  Had Putin not sent troops to the Georgian border in 2008, and invaded Crimea in 2014, there likely would be calls to disband NATO. 


There was no "coup" against Yanukovych.  He abused his position, and people demonstrated.  Had he not fired on crowds, he likely would have been able to end his term in office.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 03, 2022, 10:07:55 AM
Why should Russia get to decide if Ukraine, an independent sovereign nation, can, or cannot join NATO?  Had Putin not sent troops to the Georgian border in 2008, and invaded Crimea in 2014, there likely would be calls to disband NATO. 


Ukraine can be what it wants, on its own. They, alone, should go right into the heart of Russian front today. Why has it not done so? Do you know? You seem to speak for all Ukrainians. You should be out there along with them charging the Russia frontlines, not in the cold comfort of Canada thousands of miles from the hot zone.


I don't see Georgia 'suffering' today by not becoming a NATO member, do you?

Quote
There was no "coup" against Yanukovych.  He abused his position, and people demonstrated.  Had he not fired on crowds, he likely would have been able to end his term in office.


Your opinion. Based on all the unfolding events, then and now, reality dictates otherwise.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 03, 2022, 10:22:58 AM
I'm not speaking for anyone.  But I am telling you what Ukrainian polls say.  There was no desire by Ukrainians to join NATO in 2014.  Until Russia invaded Crimea.  There would be no need for NATO if Russia was not a bellicose expansionist regime. 


Georgia has a "frozen conflict" on its border to today, thanks to Russia.


No, it's not my opinion.  The demonstrations against Yanukovych initially were funded by Tymoshenko and were insincere.  But, they grew because he became too arrogant, which is something, given it's Ukraine.  It wasn't instigatged by the US, although the US certainly swooped in for their own interests.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 03, 2022, 10:47:03 AM
I'm not speaking for anyone.  But I am telling you what Ukrainian polls say.  There was no desire by Ukrainians to join NATO in 2014.  Until Russia invaded Crimea.  There would be no need for NATO if Russia was not a bellicose expansionist regime. 

Wrong. If Google can't help you with this, research 2008 Bucharest NATO conference. I'll make it easier for you: http://www.jstor.org/stable/48505017 (http://www.jstor.org/stable/48505017)

Quote
For the first time since NATO’s creation, the USA was defeated at an alliance summit with regard to a priority goal it had set—the inclusion of Ukraine and Georgia in NATO. That is the most notable fact about the Bucharest Summit that history will record. Yet most Western media reports surprisingly omitted this momentous failure. The summit also revealed increased tensions between the US and Russia accompanied by new intra-European divisions, which narrowed the EU’s scope for action. The EU is indeed paralysed by a new East–West crisis whose most visible manifestation was Moscow’s recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.


In conference with Georgia and Ukraine prior to the summit, Bush moved to further the aliiance by offering MAP (membership action plan) for the inclusion of Georgia and Ukraine. It was broadly rejected by notable NATO members then, as they do today. Notably Germany. A British diplomat attending the summit said: There's little appetite amongst member to inherent a east/west conflict if Ukraine became a member of NATO.

Quote
Georgia has a "frozen conflict" on its border to today, thanks to Russia.


Its borders doesn't keep Georgia from being, and doing, what it wants. Same goes for Austria, Sweden Finland, Ireland, etc...Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have, for all intents and purposes, a 'frozen conflict' as well, whatever that means

Quote
No, it's not my opinion.  The demonstrations against Yanukovych initially were funded by Tymoshenko and were insincere.  But, they grew because he became too arrogant, which is something, given it's Ukraine.  It wasn't instigatged by the US, although the US certainly swooped in for their own interests.

It is simply that, an opinion. You can add in whatever anecdotes you want to further bungle that up, like I said, simply watching unfolding events then and now - reality dictates otherwise.[/quote]
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 03, 2022, 02:30:11 PM

Ukraine can be what it wants, on its own. They, alone, should go right into the heart of Russian front today. Why has it not done so? Do you know? You seem to speak for all Ukrainians. You should be out there along with them charging the Russia frontlines, not in the cold comfort of Canada thousands of miles from the hot zone.


I don't see Georgia 'suffering' today by not becoming a NATO member, do you?


Your opinion. Based on all the unfolding events, then and now, reality dictates otherwise.

Yes, Ukraine should be what it wants, on its own.  I agree 100%.

It would be nice if a neighboring country didn't amass troops on it's border and make demands of it, tell it what it should do or be invaded.

T was in Donesk in 2014, demonstrating in the streets until Yanukovych forces initiated a crackdown.  She fled from her home to Mariupol and was there when the conflict broke out. She is against violence but she did what she could - donate supplies, help with logistics, whatever.  And she will return to volunteer again if Russia invades, though Mariupol basically doesn't have much of a chance.  She'll travel to where she can and do what she can.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 03, 2022, 03:18:34 PM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22223.msg561882#msg561882

Just because you use google, don't assume everyone else does.  My information comes from reading Ukrainian newspapers, and Ukrainian polls.  Not google.

Your American centric perspective is demonstrated yet again.  Whether Bush, or anyone else wanted Ukraine to join NATO is irrelevant.  Ukrainians never wanted to join NATO.  Even today, with a threat of invasion, only 54% of Ukrainians would be willing to join NATO.  There are over 4 million Ukrainians living in Russia.  Most Ukrainians use Russian as their primary language.  Most read Russian papers. Russia remains Ukraine's largest trading partner.  While Ukrainians want stronger ties to the EU, perceiving them as less authoritarian than Russia, Russia will always remain important to Ukraine.  That's a geographical and hence, political and economic reality.  Were there no threat of Russian invasion, I can guarantee the desire to join NATO would move back to the less than 20% territory it was at before 2014.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 03, 2022, 04:21:12 PM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22223.msg561882#msg561882 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22223.msg561882#msg561882)

Just because you use google, don't assume everyone else does.  My information comes from reading Ukrainian newspapers, and Ukrainian polls.  Not google.

LMAO! I'm not stupid enough to use Google. Hence I never bought into the Steele Dossier et al. I know many here did.

Quote
Your American centric perspective is demonstrated yet again.  Whether Bush, or anyone else wanted Ukraine to join NATO is irrelevant.

It's only irrelevant because you were ignorant of the 2008 Bucharest Summit. But nice attempt to deflect. Feel free to rewrite history that Bush (the US) singlehandedly, unbeknownst to both Ukraine and Georgia, that there were inscribed to be NATO members because the US said so, LMAO. Funny at how hard you try.

Quote
Ukrainians never wanted to join NATO.  Even today, with a threat of invasion, only 54% of Ukrainians would be willing to join NATO.

Considering it was Zelensky who lit this current fire with Russia by re-advancing Ukraine's aspiration for a NATO membership last June, despite that message (Zelensky's) was met with ambivalence by NATO's leadership, even by Blinken. Yet, here is where Ukraine is today.

Like I said, Ukraine can be what it wants to be - freely. Hell, little Georgia did what it aspired in 2008, and Georgia was in a far more disadvantage position in all angles than Ukraine is today - alone. They should tell the US/Brits et al to back off, and that they'll confront the evil empire themselves and earn their own way to a 24 hour fitness club membership, or any club membership they sought.

Quote
There are over 4 million Ukrainians living in Russia.  Most Ukrainians use Russian as their primary language.  Most read Russian papers. Russia remains Ukraine's largest trading partner.  While Ukrainians want stronger ties to the EU, perceiving them as less authoritarian than Russia, Russia will always remain important to Ukraine.  That's a geographical and hence, political and economic reality.  Were there no threat of Russian invasion, I can guarantee the desire to join NATO would move back to the less than 20% territory it was at before 2014.

Which was my very point when I initially said the US's stupid posturing today is only inciting deeper level of confrontation. Ukraine will pay dearly in this stupidity IF it doesn't declare removing itself from any aspiration of a NATO membership themselves. The best that can happen to Ukraine, forget Russia and the US, is to listen to what many of the NATO alliance believe - find a way to remove any talk of MAP while saving face, and not make NATO look weak at the same time in today's geopolitical condition.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 03, 2022, 04:47:10 PM
Well we've done it again! Called out another planned false flag operation by Pootin:

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-russia-tensions-moscows-plans-ruined-after-us-and-britain-call-out-possible-invasion-12532256

Maybe time for yours truly to go on holiday to Ukraine, I'll get to see lots of people running around in fatigues, will make for interesting sight seeing :D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 03, 2022, 06:34:28 PM
Maybe NATO needs to start amassing hundreds of thousands of troops in Estonia and Latvia on the border with Russia..along with Tanks and missile systems and backed by squadrons of Bombers and Fighter aircraft...enough to flatten St Petersburg..just for months of exercises of course.


Make sure the build-up is all filmed ....and then keep repeating we have no intention of invading Russia.


See how Putin likes it being done on his doorstep...the very thing he fears.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 04, 2022, 06:49:32 AM
When the US senate agrees on something you can be sure it is something stupid. 

Senators close in on 'mother of all sanctions' bill against Russia

A bipartisan group of senators is within striking distance of a deal on a bill that would impose crippling sanctions on Russia for its hostilities against Ukraine.

"We are finding the path forward very clearly," said Sen. Jim Risch, top Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, indicating that the White House and other key agencies were involved in the negotiations to agree on a deal ahead of any potential invasion by Russia, which has amassed more than 100,000 troops on Ukraine's border....
 

 http://www.yahoo.com/gma/senators-close-mother-sanctions-bill-224201318.html  (http://www.yahoo.com/gma/senators-close-mother-sanctions-bill-224201318.html)


Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 04, 2022, 06:55:53 AM
Well we've done it again! Called out another planned false flag operation by Pootin:

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-russia-tensions-moscows-plans-ruined-after-us-and-britain-call-out-possible-invasion-12532256

Maybe time for yours truly to go on holiday to Ukraine, I'll get to see lots of people running around in fatigues, will make for interesting sight seeing :D

My own belief is that this is US false flag, calling out a made-up Russian 'false flag'.    If Russia wanted to create a false flag it would have happened quickly.   

I think you should go to Ukraine now; most people are concerned about what might happen, but not you.  Babes falling at your feet, you will capture the cream of the crop, especially if you tote along the stockpile of toilet paper from the pandemic.

Fathertime! 
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 04, 2022, 09:22:38 AM
My own belief is that this is US false flag, calling out a made-up Russian 'false flag'.    If Russia wanted to create a false flag it would have happened quickly.   

Gee, of course it is. Tonkin Gulf - the Sequel. Expect anything different?

Just last weekend, Ukraine-based reporters had told of a major and angry Kyiv pushback against Biden for repeatedly firing warmongering rhetoric, and publishing heinously wrong assessments regarding current Kremlin plans and intent. Even the public announcement of deploying 2,000 soldiers to 'eastern Europe' in preparation for 'imminent Russian invasion' was admonished. Kyiv claimed their intelligence is polar opposite to the US's intelligence reports. This event was *almost* taken off US-based media reporting.

Instead, you now you have this story about US intelligence's 'Russian false flag' fable.

Our current US administration is ferrying the unsuccessful attempt by the same party (previous) administration's mission.

The US's military complex is in desperate need of this potentially massive profit infusion (http://inthesetimes.com/article/ukraine-russia-raytheon-lockheed-martin-general-dynamics-weapons-industry). We have a HUGE need to get these war machine wheels in motion. The sooner, the better. 2014 delay was simply troublesome.

Here's a pretty darn good example of the way the *US media/military complex/DC* conduct these things:

Look at this Politico Newsflash (http://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2022/01/18/psaki-russia-could-at-any-point-launch-an-attack-in-ukraine-495761). Then look at the picture I uploaded below. The current news link was immediately edited and 'removed' the notation " Presented by Lockheed", soon after initial release. But they weren't fast enough. It was caught on video as the picture below displays.

If there's any doubt, scroll way down the article and you'll see this little tidbit:

"Lockheed Martin's LMXT is built...."
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 05, 2022, 04:22:31 AM
This report seems to suggest that Russia might have be bearing the completIon of its invasion plans:

http://news.sky.com/story/the-final-pieces-three-new-signs-of-russian-invasion-plans-for-ukraine-12533199

An interesting report and it looks from the surveillance pics included that it definitely looks like an invasion scale of set up. My guess is that Russia is only interested in utilizing a certain number of troops as it takes more effort to move more troops into position and they need the rest to guard the other borders particularly to guard against NATO troops on its border.

There are certainly signs they might be an invasion whether Russia has a strategy to take Ukraine without blowing it to bits I don't know, whether they care who knows. If they are intent on obliterating cities with their hyper thermal missiles then it would be a horrendous act of genocide which I don't think will be forgotten.

I know before I thought early Feb around the 4th-8th or so could be a possible invasion date. It's around that now, possibly just a case of the fleet assembling in the Black Sea and a few other final preparations then maybe?

Possibly Russia has been encouraged with how they seemed to do quite well in Syria and think it will be a quick easy fight possibly with the Ukrainian army losing heart once it's smashed along with civilians and them throwing bin the towel thereby avoiding use of its hyper thermal missiles. Looks like we might find out soon either an invasion or sone sort of small diplomatic get out for Russia to climb down without losing face I reckon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 05, 2022, 08:07:49 AM

I know before I thought early Feb around the 4th-8th or so could be a possible invasion date. It's around that now, possibly just a case of the fleet assembling in the Black Sea and a few other final preparations then maybe?
Invasion isn't on the table...never really has been.    No surprise element takes war of this kind off the table in my opinion.   There would be no months long obvious build up.

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 05, 2022, 09:48:37 AM
Invasion isn't on the table...never really has been.    No surprise element takes war of this kind off the table in my opinion.   There would be no months long obvious build up.

Fathertime!

You could be right though possibly they don't need surprise. With their superiority with missiles that is probably all they need. The tanks and ground troops just left to go in to mop up and most of all be stationed on the conquered territory.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 05, 2022, 11:45:37 AM
Story focused on Kharkiv, Ukraine

http://tinyurl.com/2p97bn36
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 05, 2022, 11:47:53 AM
There’s something oddly familiar about the Ukraine situation, perhaps because it’s part of an ongoing story involving Eastern Europe and the West. During and after the Second World War, the Soviet ruler Joseph Stalin regarded the boundaries and governance of Poland as a matter of great importance.  Stalin regarded Poland’s geography as inseparable from Russian security—much as Vladimir Putin, the current Russian leader, regards Ukraine, which shares a twelve-hundred-mile border with Russia. Stalin reminded Roosevelt that, “the Soviet Union is entitled to seek in Poland a Government that would be friendly to it.”
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 06, 2022, 01:44:03 AM
There’s something oddly familiar about the Ukraine situation, perhaps because it’s part of an ongoing story involving Eastern Europe and the West. During and after the Second World War, the Soviet ruler Joseph Stalin regarded the boundaries and governance of Poland as a matter of great importance.  Stalin regarded Poland’s geography as inseparable from Russian security—much as Vladimir Putin, the current Russian leader, regards Ukraine, which shares a twelve-hundred-mile border with Russia. Stalin reminded Roosevelt that, “the Soviet Union is entitled to seek in Poland a Government that would be friendly to it.”

Soviet Troops had of course occupied Poland as the Nazis were defeated so I'm guessing it stands as common sense that he would install a friendly government. For Russia Ukraine gives it a long border to defend but for Ukraine also. In addition it's right in the way of an easy route south to the Black Sea. I think overall Putin regards certain areas as Russian, namely Belarus and Ukraine. Both regions were Russian under Catherine the Great but prior had other rulers. Both countries contain Russian speakers, likely Russian descendants and Cities have to a large extent been seen as historically Russian, Minsk, Kiev, Odessa, etc. Not do much Lviv which though had been Lvov under Russia was also known as Lemburg under Austria-Hungary.

End of the day I'm not stating these areas should be under control of Russia, there is plenty of argument either way. Plenty of times the area of Ukraine has been independent and other areas part of Poland, etc. I think Ukraine in the west has a distinct part of it that isn't really Russian. While I enjoyed Lviv a lot of it and it's people came across as fairly westernised to me.

Anyhow latest is that reports from the US seemingly think that Russia is 70 percent ready to invade:

BBC News - Ukraine tensions: US sources say Russia 70% ready to invade
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60276342

Fathertime thinks they would do a surprise attack if they were going to invade. I'm not so sure as this report points out they need certain conditions to get their heavy weapons in plus of course you can only get so much along a road or railroad at a time. It can't all just magically appear at once or drip flow to the border and attack a piece at a time, that tends not to be a great setup for success.

Still a wait and see situation. This time feels a lot more real than last Spring when the Russians were at their 'training'. A lot more war games, in preparation perhaps, and more intensity to the build up I think. Could well be as one Ukrainian General predicted mid to late February around the end of the Olympics perhaps. Guess will have to see, could come any moment for all we know.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 06, 2022, 11:18:05 PM
It's only irrelevant because you were ignorant of the 2008 Bucharest Summit. But nice attempt to deflect. Feel free to rewrite history that Bush (the US) singlehandedly, unbeknownst to both Ukraine and Georgia, that there were inscribed to be NATO members because the US said so, LMAO. Funny at how hard you try.


No trying on my part.  You have a poor understanding of what occurred. 


Yushchenko was president of Ukraine during the Bucharest Summit.  He wanted Ukraine to be considered for NATO membership in the future.  Ukrainians have never supported joining NATO.  Never, until 2014.  That's a fact. 


G.W. Bush did state that NATO membership would be in the cards in the future. Bush and Obama have both held this out for Ukraine.  Only Trump said it will never happen.


Ukrainians have never been big on NATO membership.  Their presidents, adhering to kozachestvo (read about it - very important in Ukrainian history, and explains the mentality of Ukrainian politicians) did.  But it would never have occurred, as constitutionally, it has to be approved by Ukrainian voters.

Quote
Considering it was Zelensky who lit this current fire with Russia by re-advancing Ukraine's aspiration for a NATO membership last June, despite that message (Zelensky's) was met with ambivalence by NATO's leadership, even by Blinken. Yet, here is where Ukraine is today.


See above.

Quote
Like I said, Ukraine can be what it wants to be - freely. Hell, little Georgia did what it aspired in 2008, and Georgia was in a far more disadvantage position in all angles than Ukraine is today - alone. They should tell the US/Brits et al to back off, and that they'll confront the evil empire themselves and earn their own way to a 24 hour fitness club membership, or any club membership they sought.


LOL.  Well, your understanding is very flawed.  See above.

Quote
Which was my very point when I initially said the US's stupid posturing today is only inciting deeper level of confrontation. Ukraine will pay dearly in this stupidity IF it doesn't declare removing itself from any aspiration of a NATO membership themselves. The best that can happen to Ukraine, forget Russia and the US, is to listen to what many of the NATO alliance believe - find a way to remove any talk of MAP while saving face, and not make NATO look weak at the same time in today's geopolitical condition.


Ukrainians have no aspirations for NATO membership.  When all you can muster, even after an invasion, is 54% support, it's just not going to happen.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 07, 2022, 01:20:01 AM
French President on his way to Moscow to try his hand at diplomatic resolution. Macron comes across as kind of arrogant so unless arrogance is what is needed then I don't hold out much hope.

Yesterday news of British SAS arriving in Ukraine to help train Ukraine forces in counter espionage/insurgency, etc. About a hundred in all, my guess would be that British troops training Ukrainians in anti-tank stuff are still out there. Danger being of course that Russia launches an attack while our forces are out there and kills some of them. That could then lead to a declaration of war potentially by the UK/NATO.

Russia certainly looks like it's readying itself for an invasion. These are apparently the crucial weeks that will see if it occurs or not. The ground starts to harden with frost making it a lot easier for heavy vehicles to move without churning up the ground and getting stuck. Russian ships in Syrian port at the moment to refuel & restock from their long journey around from the Baltic. Most likely next move will be to the Black Sea in the next few days. My guess is that it's all going to co-inside and cone together at once then just a case of whether or when they go ahead. Odds are they won't wait too long for the ground to thaw and will go off almost straight away.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/over-100-british-elite-troops-26150282.amp

They kind of look a bit Star Wars like in the pic lol :D

This report states that Russia will be ready to attack by 15th February so quite possible I guess. They reckon an attack could take place within the next ten days:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17562199/sas-commandos-ukraine-russia-invasion/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 07, 2022, 02:58:53 AM
So British  elite battle-hardened troops,the best of the best, are now being sent to Ukraine....could be the thin end of the wedge,as they're the ones who set-up ground bases in conflict zones for everyone else.


"Over a hundred " could mean anything...enough to let the Russians know that they're there ,but keeping them guessing exactly how many have been sent in...it's the SAS/SBS way of doing things.


Boris Johnson did warn at his press conference whilst in Kiev that this potential conflict would be a military disaster for Russia and the World.


Seems that lines are starting to be drawn now.


The balls now in mad Vlad's court.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 07, 2022, 05:35:20 AM
So British  elite battle-hardened troops,the best of the best, are now being sent to Ukraine....could be the thin end of the wedge,as they're the ones who set-up ground bases in conflict zones for everyone else.


"Over a hundred " could mean anything...enough to let the Russians know that they're there ,but keeping them guessing exactly how many have been sent in...it's the SAS/SBS way of doing things.


Boris Johnson did warn at his press conference whilst in Kiev that this potential conflict would be a military disaster for Russia and the World.


Seems that lines are starting to be drawn now.


The balls now in mad Vlad's court.

Indeed CB, a retired Russian General has come out against Putin warning him not to invade:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10484417/Top-hardline-Russian-general-warns-Putin-NOT-invade-Ukraine-accuses-criminal-policy.html

He was fired by Putin back in 2001 so could be sour grapes. Still if he thinks Putin is set to mount an invasion then he will likely have a fair idea of what indicates an invasion.

My thoughts are perhaps the SAS have been sent in on a humanitarian mission to rescue as many hotties as possible if Russia invades ;D

I see the travel advice from our foreign office has finally changed to a don't travel unless essential line. So indicating the strong possibility of a Russian Invasion it seems.

http://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ukraine
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 07, 2022, 05:56:42 AM

No trying on my part.  You have a poor understanding of what occurred. 


Yushchenko was president of Ukraine during the Bucharest Summit.  He wanted Ukraine to be considered for NATO membership in the future.  Ukrainians have never supported joining NATO.  Never, until 2014.  That's a fact. 


G.W. Bush did state that NATO membership would be in the cards in the future. Bush and Obama have both held this out for Ukraine.  Only Trump said it will never happen.

I’m glad To see I was able to educate you again. LMAO.


Quote
Ukrainians have never been big on NATO membership.  Their presidents, adhering to kozachestvo (read about it - very important in Ukrainian history, and explains the mentality of Ukrainian politicians) did.  But it would never have occurred, as constitutionally, it has to be approved by Ukrainian voters.

See above.


LOL.  Well, your understanding is very flawed.  See above.

Ukrainians have no aspirations for NATO membership.  When all you can muster, even after an invasion, is 54% support, it's just not going to happen.

LMAO.

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3241106-zelensky-expects-discussion-of-ukraines-map-prospects-to-begin-at-nato-summit-in-june.html

See above.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 07, 2022, 10:37:10 AM
 :exploding:

Matt Lee is a reporter from Associated Press. He is the perfect example of what real journalism in the US used to be like. Matt Lee was also the same reporter that was highly critical and deeply suspicious about the US's deep involvement in Ukraine's 2014 coup and ensuing civil war.

Here is Matt Lee exposing further US's BS, and its effort to lit the fire of war and military engagement in the current volatile situation along Ukraine's borders.


http://tinyurl.com/y23bpr3k

He asked the State Department to provide actual proof of the US's allegations about Russia's 'false flag' plan, which the US claimed to be a declassified intelligence, Ned Price not only cannot do so, but got very defensive and literally just told Matt Lee to simply 'take his word' for it.

We're suppose to just believe all the crap coming out of this white house? WTF?!? Here's a perfectly good example of the trash coming out of this current administration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AvpQT_4zpI
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 07, 2022, 04:15:14 PM
We (The US) were already trying everything we could to prevent the Nord Stream 2 from being completed...and everybody important knows it.

I suspect that the US has done something not publicized much in the US to give Russia enough heartburn to amass troops near Ukraine.  So far none of our tricks have stopped the pipeline, and I suspect this one will either. 

Biden insists Nord Stream 2 will be halted if Russia invades Ukraine

President Biden insisted Monday that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany would be brought to an end if the Kremlin chose to launch a renewed military invasion of Ukraine.

"If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it," Biden said at a joint press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. "I promise you we will be able

 to do that."....


http://tinyurl.com/3evvv9x5
Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 07, 2022, 04:47:42 PM
They (US administration) are as full of phsyt then as they are full of phsyt now. Jen Psaki when reporters drilled her, including Matt Lee, about US interference in Ukraine in the aftermath of the coup...they won't give a phsyt how many Ukrainians die for their greed now, as they didn't before...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW1WDbDX7wE&t=192s











Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 08, 2022, 09:15:43 PM
Sounds like a nice way to live.

Thanks to the Russian supporters who are enjoying inflicting this pain.

http://tinyurl.com/58e6rxzu
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 08, 2022, 11:07:47 PM
What about the Biden family's financial involvement in Ukraine that is constantly swept under the rug every time it crawls out?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 10, 2022, 01:31:28 AM
What about the Biden family's financial involvement in Ukraine that is constantly swept under the rug every time it crawls out?

No doubt a lot of vested interests from Biden & others in the US, the UK also I wouldn't mind betting. The UK seems particularly interested in this fight and I doubt it's because of the number of guys marrying Ukrainian women or for the benefit of UK sex tourists. My guess is that there is good money to be made out there. If the US/UK can get control of Ukraine and pull the strings from behind the scenes then they can get in a lot of US/UK companies, investment, etc and get lucrative deals. They will of course get their way in pretty much all that happens in Ukraine. On the plus side it may finally get rid of corruption if Ukraine is being controlled by the US/UK. On the other that may make it a lot more like western nations which is probably not good for us western guys going over there for girls, who knows.

Ukraine may have oil & gas it is thought, apparently exploration is needed and then extraction. It has been offering out contracts to tender for this mainly taken up by small companies but progress appears slow. So it may be one area the US/UK hope to get into.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 10, 2022, 08:44:54 AM
Recent reports are that Russia & Belarus are conducting training for 10 days together. Putin's yacht has sailed for Kaliningrad from Germany to avoid being impounded by sanctions if Russia invades Ukraine. So both could be quite telling, that Russia intends to invade Ukraine but that it probably won't happen until at least 10 days time. So after the end of the Olympics on the 20th Feb could be about the time they may invade. That ties up with the time that Ukrainian General thought they might invade. Having messaged women out in Ukraine recently apparently it's getting quite stressful for them out there at the moment which is understandable really I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 10, 2022, 10:55:23 AM
DOD rejected the recent letter request by Military Reporters & Editors Association sent of February 5, 2022 (http://militaryreporters.org/2022/02/military-reporters-editors-association-calls-for-the-resumption-of-embeds/); to embed journalist with US troops in the eastern flank/deployment.



Just like they rejected Libya bombing embedment.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 10, 2022, 05:14:15 PM
Looks like the writing is on the wall now, Bisen is now telling Americans to get the hell out of Ukraine:

http://news.sky.com/story/us-president-joe-biden-says-american-citizens-should-leave-ukraine-now-12538715

I was astonished to hear how many Americans there are in Ukraine, many, many sex tourists with the same idea as me of living there no doubt, their lives potentially being turned upside down.

My guess this new announcement wouldn't have come without the US having some big tell tell warning signs coming in. Ukraine likely to lose out on a lot of revenue from the his action but then again if it all becomes Russian territory then that won't really matter I guess.

More bad news for Ukraine here:

BBC News - Ukraine tensions: Russia accused of sea blockade
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60340232

Looks like Russia's fleet has arrived in the Black Sea now which was their supposed destination sailing around Europe from the North Sea.

http://news.usni.org/2022/02/08/six-ship-russian-navy-amphibious-group-attack-sub-approach-black-sea-as-warships-mass-in-the-mediterranean

Looks like all their forces are now converging in place, a few exercises then quite likely the invasion it's looking. Russia blockading Ukraine's sea ports will harm their economy for as long as it lasts of course. I kind of called it a few weeks ago that Russia's fleet arriving in the Black Sea would likely be the last piece falling into place before an attack. Looks like their present war games will co-inside with those in Belarus, so a few days then it all begins.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 11, 2022, 08:41:38 AM
Ben Wallace ..UK Secretary of State for Defence speaking at a press conference in the British Embassy in Moscow has just said he doesn't think British people need to leave Ukraine.


He also said there are no plans to send Special Forces Troops to Ukraine..and not to believe everything you read in the media.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 11, 2022, 08:51:43 AM
No doubt a lot of vested interests from Biden & others in the US, the UK also I wouldn't mind betting. The UK seems particularly interested in this fight and I doubt it's because of the number of guys marrying Ukrainian women or for the benefit of UK sex tourists. My guess is that there is good money to be made out there. If the US/UK can get control of Ukraine and pull the strings from behind the scenes then they can get in a lot of US/UK companies, investment, etc and get lucrative deals. They will of course get their way in pretty much all that happens in Ukraine. On the plus side it may finally get rid of corruption if Ukraine is being controlled by the US/UK. On the other that may make it a lot more like western nations which is probably not good for us western guys going over there for girls, who knows.

Ukraine may have oil & gas it is thought, apparently exploration is needed and then extraction. It has been offering out contracts to tender for this mainly taken up by small companies but progress appears slow. So it may be one area the US/UK hope to get into.

The money to be made out there is it's completely corrupt.
   Government officials need ways to launder the money they *cough steal.
Ukraine's a perfect place for that, and well versed in it.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 12, 2022, 12:14:57 AM
Ben Wallace ..UK Secretary of State for Defence speaking at a press conference in the British Embassy in Moscow has just said he doesn't think British people need to leave Ukraine.


He also said there are no plans to send Special Forces Troops to Ukraine..and not to believe everything you read in the media.

Looks like the Foreign Office has now since decided otherwise:

BBC News - Russia-Ukraine crisis: UK nationals told to leave Ukraine
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60355311

http://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ukraine

Bisen gives US citizens 48 hours to leave as the US military won't be allowed to intervene to evacuate it's citizens after that and commercial flights may no longer be available:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10503325/amp/Americans-48-hours-leave-Ukraine-military-WONT-rescue-Steps-warnings.html

What all those agency girls who are reliant on western guys money are going to do who knows 🤷

Starting to look pretty telling from all of this I'm thinking.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 14, 2022, 02:52:12 PM
British officials estimate that a further 14 Russian Battalions headed to the Ukraine border today..each Battalion containing about 800 troops.


This would take the number of Russian forces on the Ukraine border to over 150,000.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 14, 2022, 04:36:46 PM
British officials estimate that a further 14 Russian Battalions headed to the Ukraine border today..each Battalion containing about 800 troops.


This would take the number of Russian forces on the Ukraine border to over 150,000.

Yeah to my mind it's definitely an invasion that is intended. The rest of the Russian army no doubt held back to defend Russia's extensive borders, especially to safeguard against any thought NATO might have if counterattacking.

As said in another post I think Russia's objective is to smash Ukraine's army with shelling and small missiles, move up to the key Ukrainian cities then bring about a negotiation with those willing to be a part of a new Pro-Russian Ukrainian government. They'll negotiate peace with Russia in its terms and the Russian army will withdraw. Likely Donbass & Lugansk will join the Russian Federation, Ukraine will agree that Crimea is Russian and Ukraine will not join NATO or the EU. Ukraine will likely grant access to Russia's Navy to use its port facilities in Odesa, Nikolaev, Kherson & Mariupol and other trade and political dealings. I think odds are Ukraine will change its city's names back to Russian version and probably the Orthodox church will rejoin Russia. So much as before 2014 just Ukraine more under the thumb of Russia.

I think Russia wants a conclusion to the separatist war in Eastern Ukraine, it us fed up of being in a stalemate with Russian soldiers listing their lives. Do yes I think Russia will invade Ukraine to deal with that along with other issues that it can see as bit being resolved any other way.

Precisely when Russia will attack, well it could be any time in the next few days. I'm not so sure of Wednesday but I think they are readying with finally movements before an attack now, around the end of the Olympics quite possibly. I'm guessing it's only days away now.

For us I largely go along with the line that it's not our fight, I have no connection out in Ukraine at present. I still wish to go to Ukraine in future though. Having thought this through it may not end up as bad for us as I thought. That of course doesn't feel great to say as Ukrainians could lose their lives but none of that is my wish or doing. I think there is a good possibility that a Pro-Russian Ukrainian government will keep the visa-free regime. I don't think that will bother Russia, it won't want Ukraine as an economic wasteland and I don't think it wants it as it's territory per se. Also Ukraine won't no longer be wanting to join the EU under a Pro-Russian Ukrainian government, hooray!!! They could quite likely Dutch the present tourist visa agreement they have for it's citizens with the EU, or the EU might because of the installation of a Pro-Russian government. So there may be possible up sides we haven't thought off. All a bit difficult to tell until it goes down but all may not be lost it us, my Odesa Dreams may still be on the table :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 14, 2022, 05:26:06 PM
Yeah, this article about says it all, probably the one you saw CB:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10512661/amp/The-race-Kiev-Russian-forces-bid-topple-Ukraine-government-multi-axis-invasion.html

Reckons Russian forces are being boosted from 130,000 to 150,000 or more like you said CB. Apparently they reckon the Russians force is more composed for speed keeping the number down.

If the article is right and Ukraine has got most of their army in the east then Ukraine could be in for a quick defeat as Kyiv is going to be the main target. Possibly Russia may hope to target it and get to 'negotiating' with Pro-Russian elements to form a new government. Odds are though that they may have to go into Kyiv to kick out Ukrainian military elements. They may have to smash Ukraine's army in the east also to break it's will and stop it turning and coming towards Kyiv. I personally think Russia's luck would be in for it to be bloodless. I don't think Ukraine's military will stand down without being hammered first. It may come to the point where Russia decides to back out again if it looks like not enough of Ukraine's forces of influence will come over to make a Pro-Russian Ukrainian government possible. Many Ukrainians are known for being corrupt or out for what they can get regardless of the situation so maybe Russia will get what it wants. End of the day if Russia pushes it they may end up doing an Iraqi style regime change with their forces stuck in the country while they train a new force of Pro-Russian Ukrainian Army up to keep a new Pro-Russian Ukrainian government in power.

I think possibly also Russia may take a fair bit of land from Ukraine as it's own, in addition to Donetsk & Luhansk they may well take, Kharkiv all the way down to Mariupol to link up Crimea with the Black Sea. That will probably work for them as generally Russian speaking & Russian leaning part of Ukraine even if Russian aggression may aggrieve them they will likely be easier to control for Russia. Either that or a land tunnel agreement for Russia to access the Crimea although possibly they may not be so bothered about that now they have built a land bridge. I think a lot will depend on how it all goes down. Again Russia may not be too bothered about annexing large parts of Ukraine but more interested in a Pro-Russian Ukrainian government. If they can carry it out without too much blood lost then they will probably bank on being able to come to terms with the international community later. All depends on how it goes down during invasion as to the precise outcome I think.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 15, 2022, 01:19:50 AM
That will probably work for them as generally Russian speaking & Russian leaning part of Ukraine even if Russian aggression may aggrieve them they will likely be easier to control for Russia.


All those regions speak surzhik, not Russian, and they are predominantly ethnically Ukrainian.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 15, 2022, 02:22:10 AM
Yeah, this article about says it all, probably the one you saw CB:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10512661/amp/The-race-Kiev-Russian-forces-bid-topple-Ukraine-government-multi-axis-invasion.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10512661/amp/The-race-Kiev-Russian-forces-bid-topple-Ukraine-government-multi-axis-invasion.html)

Reckons Russian forces are being boosted from 130,000 to 150,000 or more like you said CB. Apparently they reckon the Russians force is more composed for speed keeping the number down.

If the article is right and Ukraine has got most of their army in the east then Ukraine could be in for a quick defeat as Kyiv is going to be the main target. Possibly Russia may hope to target it and get to 'negotiating' with Pro-Russian elements to form a new government. Odds are though that they may have to go into Kyiv to kick out Ukrainian military elements. They may have to smash Ukraine's army in the east also to break it's will and stop it turning and coming towards Kyiv. I personally think Russia's luck would be in for it to be bloodless. I don't think Ukraine's military will stand down without being hammered first. It may come to the point where Russia decides to back out again if it looks like not enough of Ukraine's forces of influence will come over to make a Pro-Russian Ukrainian government possible. Many Ukrainians are known for being corrupt or out for what they can get regardless of the situation so maybe Russia will get what it wants. End of the day if Russia pushes it they may end up doing an Iraqi style regime change with their forces stuck in the country while they train a new force of Pro-Russian Ukrainian Army up to keep a new Pro-Russian Ukrainian government in power.

I think possibly also Russia may take a fair bit of land from Ukraine as it's own, in addition to Donetsk & Luhansk they may well take, Kharkiv all the way down to Mariupol to link up Crimea with the Black Sea. That will probably work for them as generally Russian speaking & Russian leaning part of Ukraine even if Russian aggression may aggrieve them they will likely be easier to control for Russia. Either that or a land tunnel agreement for Russia to access the Crimea although possibly they may not be so bothered about that now they have built a land bridge. I think a lot will depend on how it all goes down. Again Russia may not be too bothered about annexing large parts of Ukraine but more interested in a Pro-Russian Ukrainian government. If they can carry it out without too much blood lost then they will probably bank on being able to come to terms with the international community later. All depends on how it goes down during invasion as to the precise outcome I think.


BBC news saying that there are reports that Russia is pulling back some of it's troops from the Ukraine border this morning.


Lavrov has been pushing Putin to let diplomacy do it's work apparently.


The Russian media has been ridiculing the western media's claims that an invasion of Ukraine is imminent.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2022, 03:11:56 AM

BBC news saying that there are reports that Russia is pulling back some of it's troops from the Ukraine border this morning.


Lavrov has been pushing Putin to let diplomacy do it's work apparently.


The Russian media has been ridiculing the western media's claims that an invasion of Ukraine is imminent.

If true it could just be a ruse though not sure how that would help. Just have to wait and see on that one I guess. This news report out today is an interesting one:

http://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-protect-your-homeland-ukrainian-president-urges-politicians-who-have-fled-the-country-to-return-12542333

Apparently many business leaders, politicians, etc have cowardly fled Ukraine in fear of their lives and taking their money with them lol. They're not taking any chances and are putting their own lives and wealth first and let the rest of Ukrainians face any threat. Gaunty the President of Ukraine is asking for you to return! :D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2022, 03:31:16 AM

All those regions speak surzhik, not Russian, and they are predominantly ethnically Ukrainian.

As in mixed Russian with Ukrainian words or Ukrainian with mixed Russian words. In previous voting in Presidential Elections the Eastern regions of Ukraine always voted for the Pro-Russian candidate, indicating a preference towards Russia. So my guess is they wouldn't be too out of place annexed into Russia. Again I wouldn't wish it as it would mean a visa if I wanted to go there. My guess is that at most they would probably take Donetsk, Luhansk, Mariupol & Kharkiv and that would likely bit it and negotiate with Pro-Russian elements to put in control of the rest of Ukraine.

Surzhik can apparently take on other foreign language words. I've seen guys on You Tube mix Russian with English whenever they are stuck for the Russian word lol. Looks like it doesn't work too bad either.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 15, 2022, 03:35:42 AM
Nope.  Surzhik is spoken only in Ukraine, not Russia.  It is essentially a language in and of itself, neither Ukrainian nor Russian. 


Yanukovych only won overwhelming support in Crimea, Donestk and Luhansk. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2022, 03:47:53 AM
This is the report that states a possible Russian withdrawal:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10513527/Putin-step-Russian-tanks-artillery-seen-moving-Ukraine-attack-positions.html

Apparently overnight the US has reported many Russian troops have actually moved closer to the border and that an attack looks likely by the weekend. After that Russia announced that sone troops had completed their exercises and were moving home. Doesn't seem like a lot, one unit in Crimea and one north of Ukraine's border. They could do easily move anywhere along the front line or back again. In recent days may more trips have arrived at the Ukrainian front so I'm not sure that it amounts to anything significant. Could be a likely ruse and Ukraine seems to be cautious in that also. Possibly might be to say, 'hey we were starting to move our army away after training then Ukraine chose to attack part of our army in a (false flag) unprovoked attack' and hence their excuse to attack Ukraine.

Another news paper article on the same:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukraine-russia-war-invasion-live-26225775

Looks like US Intelligence is pegging the Russian Invasion of Ukraine to start at 3AM tomorrow morning!!!

Makes sense to do it in the early hours. The ground is probably frozen now so could all fit. Possibly now that time is out they may not but certainly the coming days look ominous for Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 15, 2022, 05:25:34 AM
If true it could just be a ruse though not sure how that would help. Just have to wait and see on that one I guess. This news report out today is an interesting one:

http://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-protect-your-homeland-ukrainian-president-urges-politicians-who-have-fled-the-country-to-return-12542333

Apparently many business leaders, politicians, etc have cowardly fled Ukraine in fear of their lives and taking their money with them lol. They're not taking any chances and are putting their own lives and wealth first and let the rest of Ukrainians face any threat. Gaunty the President of Ukraine is asking for you to return! :D
WTF are you prattling on about now.
Your posts get more delusional by the day.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 15, 2022, 05:27:46 AM
NATO Secretary General saying they see no signs of any de-escalation of Russian forces  on the ground on the Ukrainian border...despite what the Russian Defence Ministry  said earlier today.


Boris Johnson just said intelligence is telling him that Russia is now erecting large field hospitals in Belarus on the Ukrainian border.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 15, 2022, 08:27:23 AM
Here we go...Putin has put up his pretext today for invading Ukraine,exactly as the west had warned..he claims Ukraine is committing mass human rights violations,including genocide in Donbas.


All sounds very much like Hitlers excuse for invading Czechoslovakia and we all know what happened after that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 15, 2022, 08:29:47 AM

Looks like US Intelligence is pegging the Russian Invasion of Ukraine to start at 3AM tomorrow morning!!!

Makes sense to do it in the early hours. The ground is probably frozen now so could all fit. Possibly now that time is out they may not but certainly the coming days look ominous for Ukraine.
Ok, so now the invasion is happening at 3am tomorrow.   I don't think so.  All downside for Russia to invade.  The US is probably trying to make Putin look weak by pretending they have stared him down.   I still think most of the world can see through the spin.   I guess we will know by 3am tomorrow!

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 15, 2022, 09:15:08 AM
LMAO!


Quote from: Zelensky
NATO is just a distant dream for Ukraine


Western phucking propaganda had brainwashed the vast majority of its population/s. With reports now revealing that Russia had began to move some of its equipment and troops away from the border.


The US immediately checked Kamala Harris' schedule to get an update on her main duty as White House email checker to see if any new emails came in this morning in her computer, and despite the State Department disliking the idea of pulling her away from what she does best as the United States Vice-President, they also recognize no one else in the white house can do a better job than Ms. Harris and decided to send her to the next best thing she does as vice-president, US Border Monitor. The US is dispatching her immediately to make sure Russia continues to demobilize its military along the border. Ms. Harris immediately grabbed an Arizona and Texas map to make sure she doesn't get lost.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 15, 2022, 10:46:21 AM
Did "Western propaganda" amass more than 130,000 troops along Ukraine's border?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 15, 2022, 10:56:02 AM
Did "Western propaganda" amass more than 130,000 troops along Ukraine's border?


The imminent Russian invasion was. Hyperventilated and scared the bejesus out of everyone except the Ukrainians and Russians.

 >:D


Fear no more...Kamala Harris is on her way to the eastern border. Last seen closing in on El Paso....
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 15, 2022, 01:06:37 PM
Russia says they are pulling back troops from the border.

The games people play...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2022, 05:18:12 PM
Russia says they are pulling back troops from the border.

The games people play...

US Intelligence has since said that they haven't seen any obvious sign of troop withdrawal.

Putin has said to the German Chancellor that he does not wish for war.

What actually happens who knows.

A night time attack at 3am would probably be the best time. Russian forces could be closing in on Kyiv just as Ukrainians are waking up in the morning. I don't reckon it will be tonight though now that time has been spread about.

I think Putin may just be manoeuvring himself now to find a reason to attack. Just after saying he doesn't wish for war may not be the best time as so soon could look very shallow. My guess is if he wants to invade he'll give a good day or two and then make a move. Quite what the excuse will be who knows, possibly as CB suggests to stop the supposed 'genocide' in Eastern Ukraine. Would probably sound better and more justified than any false flag carry on.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on February 15, 2022, 07:06:13 PM
U.S. recommends leaving Belarus  in addition to Ukraine.  Is Moldova the only "safe " fsu destination?   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on February 15, 2022, 10:59:43 PM
A transcript from the first page of our Russian embassy website..... It’s a long read.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s interview with Sputnik, Echo of Moscow, Govorit Moskva and Komsomolskaya Pravda radio stations, Moscow, January 28, 2022

Question: Will there be a war? We sent them our proposals, we waited for their response, and we got their response. Their answer did not suit us, which was to be expected. Before that, we said and made clear through different representatives that if their response does not suit us, we reserve the right to respond and protect our interests forcefully. Can you explain what that means and what are we going to do? We aren’t going to make McDonald’s illegal after all, are we? If I may quote my subscribers, they frame this question as follows: “When are we going to hit Washington?”, “Will there be a war?”, “How long are we going to procrastinate?”, “Will there be a war?”

Sergey Lavrov: If it depends on the Russian Federation, there will be no war. We don’t want wars, but we won’t allow anyone to trample on our interests or ignore them, either. I cannot say that the talks are over. As you are aware, it took the Americans and their NATO allies more than a month to study our extremely straightforward proposals that are part of the draft treaty with Washington and the agreement with NATO. We received their response only the day before yesterday. It is written in that typically Western style. In many ways, they are confusing the issue, but also providing kernels of rationality on secondary issues such as intermediate- and shorter-range missiles which were quite important for us at some point. When the Americans destroyed the INF Treaty, we urged them to listen to reason. President Vladimir Putin sent a message to all OSCE members suggesting that they join our unilateral moratorium when agreeing on verification measures. It was ignored. Now, it has become part of their proposals. Similarly, our initiatives that were introduced by the General Staff of the Russian Federation to conduct military exercises further away from the borders on both sides, to agree on a critical safe distance between approaching combat aircraft and ships, as well as a number of other confidence-building, deconflicting and de-escalation measures, were ignored. All of that has been rejected during the past two to three years. Now, they propose discussing this. That is, the constructive approach in these proposals has, in fact, been borrowed from Russia’s recent initiatives. I think that now, as we say in Russia, “we are getting somewhere.” To reiterate, most importantly, we should figure out the conceptual pillars that underlie European security.
In 2010 in Astana, and before that in 1999 in Istanbul, all presidents and prime ministers from the OSCE countries signed a package that contained interrelated principles to ensure the indivisibility of security. The West “ripped out” just one slogan from this package: each country has the right to choose its allies and military alliances. But in that package this right comes with a condition and an obligation on each country, to which the Westerners subscribed: not to strengthen their security at the expense of the security of others. With its mantra that the NATO open door policy is sacred and no one can say “no” to Ukraine joining the Alliance and that it’s up to Ukraine to decide, the West is, deliberately and openly, refusing even to acknowledge the second part of the commitments. Moreover, when Josep Borrell, Antony Blinken and many other colleagues of ours talk about the importance of sticking to agreed-upon principles in the context of the Euro-Atlantic security architecture, none of them ever mentions the Istanbul Declaration or the Astana Declaration. They mention the Helsinki Final Act and the 1990 Charter of Paris for a New Europe, in which there is no obligation not to strengthen one’s own security at the expense of others. Russia insisted on including this commitment in subsequent OSCE documents.
Today, as I made clear earlier, I am sending official requests to all my colleagues asking them directly to clarify how they are going to fulfill, in the current historical circumstances, the obligations that their countries have signed onto at the highest level. These are the matters of principle. Before we proceed to discussing individual practical aspects of European security, we want to see the West wriggle out of it this time.
I hope they will give an honest answer about what they have in mind when they implement these agreements in an exclusively unilateral manner that benefits them – again, completely ignoring that fact that the right to join alliances directly hinges on recognising that it is unacceptable to strengthen the security of some states at the expense of the security of others. Let’s see how they respond.

Question: If they give us the answer many experts are discussing, it will most certainly not suit us. Can it lead to a breakdown in relations? Everything we have been hearing recently from the Americans, and they are going to introduce sanctions against the leadership of our entire country, even against you…

Sergey Lavrov: What do you mean “even”? Are you saying I am not worthy of them?

Question: It has never happened in history. There has never been talk of sanctions against the Foreign Minister and the President. This is beyond the pale. Look at what is happening with our diplomats against this backdrop. Yesterday our Ambassador to the United States said that ultimately this might lead to something close to severing relations. As Anatoly Antonov said, our diplomats are simply being expelled although this is presented in a somewhat different way. What should we do? How will it look?

Sergey Lavrov: This is a multilayered question. I will start with the main point: What will we do if the West does not listen to reason? The President of Russia has already said what. If our attempts to come to terms on mutually acceptable principles of ensuring security in Europe fail to produce the desired result, we will take response measures. Asked directly what these measures might be, he said: they could come in all shapes and sizes. He will make decisions based on the proposals submitted by our military. Naturally, other departments will also take part in drafting these proposals.
Now the interdepartmental analysis of the responses received from the US and NATO is underway. Practically everyone knows what these responses are. I have made some remarks. I will note in passing that the American response is all but a model of diplomatic manners compared to NATO’s document. NATO sent us such an ideologically motivated answer, it is so permeated with its exceptional role and special mission that I even felt a bit embarrassed for whoever wrote these texts.
Our reply will be prepared. The proposals contained in our reply will be reported to the President of Russia and he will make a decision. We are developing our line at this point, including the steps that I mentioned.
As for the threats of imposing sanctions, the Americans were told, including during the presidential meeting, that the package you have just mentioned, the one that includes completely cutting off Russia from the West-controlled financial and economic systems, will be equivalent to severing relations. This was said directly. I believe they understand this. I don’t think this is in anyone’s interests.
Now a few words about their treatment of our diplomats. When I was in Washington several years ago, or, to be more precise, in December 2019, a deputy US Secretary of State under Michael Pompeo told my deputy in passing, before saying goodbye, that they were thinking of ways to streamline the functioning of our diplomatic missions on a reciprocal basis. He said American diplomats work abroad for three years. Then they are replaced, sent to a different country or returned to the central office in Washington. So they decided that our diplomats should also observe this term of three years and that’s it. We asked why we were told this on the sly and whether we were the only ones to hear it. We asked whether they had similar thoughts as regards other states, the answer was “no.”  No other country was supposed to be subjected to this experiment, just the Russian Federation. This is when we started yet another round of our diplomatic tit-for-tat. We said okay, you have a practice of sending diplomats to serve abroad for three years, and we have a practice of not hiring local personnel to work in our embassies. The Americans hired over 400 people (nationals of Russia and other countries, mostly CIS).
You probably followed this discussion. They started moaning and groaning “How come? Are you ‘unplugging’ us?” You wanted to be guided by the principle that you can do everything and impose on us what you think is right. We will do the same. This is yet another escalation of the crisis that was triggered by Barack Obama who revealed his genuine character. Three weeks before his departure from the White House, he decided to bind Donald Trump’s hands before slamming the door on the way out. He deprived us of five diplomatic properties and expelled dozens of diplomats who had to pack up all their staff with their families in three days. This was the beginning of it all.
We spoke about this again with Antony Blinken in Geneva, completing our conversation on European security. It is necessary to get back to normal in some way. We suggested starting from scratch and resetting everything to zero, beginning with this disgraceful, piddling move by Nobel Prize winner Barack Obama and everything that followed after it. Let’s wait and see. Another meeting is supposed to take place in the next couple of weeks. The Americans are now in a bargaining mood. They are telling us that they need 12 people serving the ambassador alone.  They argue that we must therefore exempt them from the quota that we establish on a reciprocal basis. We have explained to them that the agreed-upon quota is 455 people, both for them and for us. On our part, this is a gesture of enormous goodwill. The figure of 455 includes not only the employees of the bilateral diplomatic missions: the Embassy and two general consulates but also 150 people who work at our mission at the UN, which has nothing to do with our bilateral ties or any sense of balance. This was a goodwill gesture. However, we warned them that if they continue their obnoxious behaviour (I don’t know how else to describe their statements that if we don’t accept the guards for their ambassador immediately, they will ask Mr Antonov to leave the US), we still have the option of truly equalising our diplomatic presence.

Question: You know perfectly well that my questions are largely based on our radio listeners’ questions. Since we are talking about Russia-US relations, our listener Michael McFaul of California, a Stanford University professor, has sent a question for you. Why didn’t Russia try at least to get UN Security Council authorisation for the use of force if needed in Ukraine? Doesn’t Russia believe in the UN Security Council any longer? Why hasn’t Russia recognised the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk republics if they are facing the same risk as South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008?

Sergey Lavrov: To be honest, the questions are absolutely ignorant. Take the question about the UN Security Council. Did I get it right?  Why didn’t (past tense) Russia go to the UN Security Council for authorisation to use force if necessary? I will not even try to explain the futility of the phrase. The word “if” does not belong in the diplomatic practice in any country.
Regarding recognition, I think Mr McFaul, who had made a tremendous contribution to destroying anything constructive in Russian-American relations, just did not have time to read the Minsk agreements approved in February 2015. They are about preserving the unity and territorial integrity of Ukraine. The Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics had already declared independence several months prior to the Minsk meeting. Germany and France, who endorsed the text of the Minsk agreements with us and the Ukrainians, begged us, with Pyotr Poroshenko joining those requests, to persuade the leaders of the two republics to sign the Minsk agreements thus, in essence, changing the results of the spring 2014 referendum in Donbass. Mr McFaul should probably learn the contemporary history of the region. The issue of recognition must be considered in the context of our firm line to get the West to compel Kiev to abide by the Minsk agreements. Then everything will be all right, just as envisaged by this document endorsed by the UN Security Council.

Question: I think that the document we delivered to the United States surprised many of those who read it. It left many, myself included, feeling that Russia won in some kind of a war, while America lost. What I mean is the radical proposals contained in it like returning to NATO’s 1997 borders, etc. My question is, what was all that? It is obvious that the arguments must be really strong for the Americans to return to the 1997 terms or withdraw from countries where they feel so good, confident and comfortable? By all means, you clearly had something in mind. What was that, and what kind of a response did you expect to this letter? After all, the withdrawal must be swift. They were required to respond quickly.
We did our math. You are now working with your fourth US administration, since you became Foreign Minister during George W. Bush’s presidency. Are there any major differences between these teams? Can specific individuals actually make a difference in history as we were once taught, or not? Which of your counterparts did you work better with, and how are you getting along with the current “guys” compared to the previous administrations?

Sergey Lavrov: The proposals we delivered to the United States and NATO on December 15, 2021, may seem excessive only if the expert assessing them proceeds from the premise that “the Americans have already taken away everything there was all around you, so it is too late to make a fuss about it. Just accept it and try to keep the bare minimum they left you.”
What we want is fair treatment. I cited the commitments we all accepted at the highest level within the OSCE. Let me emphasise that presidents, including the US President, signed under these commitments promising that no one would seek to bolster one’s security at someone else’s expense. The United States claims that the right to choose alliances is sacrosanct. But we say, provided it doesn’t worsen the security situation for any other country. This is what you signed, my dear sirs.
They are now trying to present our proposals as an ultimatum, but we are there to refresh their memories and make sure that instead of equivocating they set forth in all honesty their interpretation of what their president signed up for. If he signed these documents while being confident that Russia would never be able to get what they promised, they must acknowledge that. This will be yet another confession on their part. We already reminded them about the promises they made verbally in the 1990s not to expand NATO, but in response they claimed that we got them wrong, that they did not want to mislead us and had little time to think because there were more urgent issues to deal with at the time. This is how they explained it, literally.
We are on our own territory. Michael McFaul has referred to the UN Security Council where the United States intends to discuss what we are doing regarding Ukraine and why we are not working to de-escalate the situation. This is what we hear from a person representing a country with military bases spread around the world, encircling the Russian Federation and the CIS, a country doing who knows what in Iraq (who invited them there?) and so forth. If the Americans want to discuss troop deployments, there are things to talk about. Everywhere we deploy our military forces, we do so based on a request from the host country. We fulfil the agreements we reach with host countries strictly in keeping with international law. Both Josep Borrell and Antony Blinken have been whipping up hysteria on the topic of escalation in Ukraine, demanding that we de-escalate, which has become a mantra of sorts for them, saying that they do hope that Russia chooses the “path of diplomacy.” I take them at their word. For many years after the end of the Soviet Union, we opted for the path of diplomacy. The Istanbul and Astana arrangements I had mentioned are the major outcomes of these diplomatic efforts: everyone undertook not to reinforce one’s security at the expense of others. After all, this was a commitment, a declaration, the supreme act of diplomacy. Use any word you like: compromise, consensus, agreement – anything. If diplomacy is what you stand for, start by delivering on what we already agreed upon.
It is not my intention to discuss our partners on a personal level, though there is much that could be said. Our motto is that we have to work with everyone, and work we do. I can say that I had smooth relationships with all my colleagues. We could always speak candidly with each other at all times even on increasingly divisive matters and on the differences our countries have in their relations with one another.

Question: You are a diplomat. You will never put it the way I’m going to put it right now. But I am a journalist and I can afford to.

Sergey Lavrov: I have said a few undiplomatic things before.

Question: True. But you didn’t say those things into a microphone during an interview. It’s just that we keep an eye on you and print your brilliant sayings on T-shirts.
We recently saved Kazakhstan. We may have to salvage things between Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. We have also preserved the peace in Karabakh and, generally speaking, in Armenia, too. We are endlessly saving our “exes.” What do we get in return?
Reporters from Komsomolskaya Pravda – colleagues of editor-in-chief Vladimir Sungorkin who is joining us from their studio – have unearthed a great story. They have investigated school textbooks used in former Soviet republics, including those we continue saving, to find out what they say about Russia, about the Soviet Union and about the Russian Empire. Quite a fascinating story. If you haven't read it, you’ll be amazed. Kassym-Jomart Tokayev reports to our President that Russian is widespread in Kazakh schools, and not only in schools. According to our information, this is not entirely true, or rather it is not at all true. Regarding Russians living in those countries, we have many, many harassment complaints. I'm not talking specifically about Kazakhstan, but about the former Soviet republics in general. We have heard many times that the Foreign Ministry is opposed to simplifying the procedure for obtaining Russian citizenship by Russians living in those countries. I know for sure that it is not. I discussed this with you, and I know your position. Moreover, you have recently played an active role in simplifying current laws. Can you tell us how long we will tolerate this kind of attitude towards our people? When will we start returning our people – the way the Greeks, Germans, Jews and many others are taking people back based on their ethnic identity? How will we defend the rights of our people who have found themselves stranded there after their country’s collapse, which was not something they wanted?

Sergey Lavrov: This is several questions in one. As for relations with our neighbours, CSTO allies, CIS partners – we have a problem. Nobody is hiding this. It largely stems from the fact that the newly independent states, which left the Soviet Union and which had been part of the Russian Empire before that, have been given the first chance in a long historical period, the first opportunity to build their own national (the key word) states. They sometimes overdo it because they want to assert their national identity as soon as possible. Nobody would deny this. This always happens when great empires fall apart.
The Soviet Union was heir to the Russian Empire. In fact, it was an imperial entity, although softer and more humane than the British, French or other empires.
Some of the imbalances you are talking about would be inevitable in the current historical period. We certainly wish to avoid them and curtail them. This must be done by all means, including so-called soft power, and we need to allocate significantly more resources for it than now. Our ministry is active in lobbying for appropriate Government decisions and streamlining the state's activities on this track. But we are still far below the level that Western countries have reached in this respect. In addition to soft power, apart from diplomacy, bringing these problems up during meetings with our allies and partners – there is also reciprocity, which refers to considering our partners’ approaches to matters that are relevant to us when making decisions that affect them. This concerns labour migrants, economic assistance, and much more. Our economic systems are interconnected. The Eurasian Economic Union creates conditions, but it is up to the Russian Federation to make most of them a reality, and much more.
I do not see why this should rule out the development of friendly, allied, and very close – including personal – relationships with the elites of our neighbours. This whole situation is the result of a geopolitical catastrophe, the collapse of the Soviet Union. As Russian President Vladimir Putin said, 25 million people (maybe more) then found themselves abroad, outside their country overnight. We had no borders and no idea how to build ties. It took a titanic effort. Now the situation is more or less back to normal; it is clear who should be responsible for what. This is already a great achievement. But the problems you mentioned – our compatriots’ situation – should be addressed on a mutual basis.
I'll make a couple of points now. The first point is we should be more active and open in discussing human rights within the CIS, including the rights of non-titular ethnic groups – Russians in Kazakhstan, Kazakhs in Russia, Azerbaijanis in Armenia and vice versa (although there are very few of them left there). We have reached the following agreement with our CIS partners. Back when the Commonwealth was being created, its Charter included a provision on the CIS Commission on Human Rights as one of its bodies. However, we never got around to actually setting it up. At first, the idea was simple – the West should see that we also address human rights. But over the past few years, we have proposed materialising this statutory provision. There is a general agreement to launch the commission and an understanding that we will primarily deal with human rights issues in the CIS. It should be up to us, to all CIS countries, to make judgments about the human rights situation in our countries, not to Western agencies or bodies like the European Court of Human Rights, which has long lost the ability to rely on the principles of justice and which increasingly politicises its decisions every year.
Last year, the number of regional programmes exceeded 80, that is, apart from the federal programme, including in the regions of the Far East and Trans-Baikal Territory which we see as priority areas for those willing to move to the Russian Federation. I listed the major benefits that have been approved. I will say straight away that we wanted more. I believe that one’s family, parents and relatives having roots not only in the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic but also in other republics of the Soviet Union must have relevance for being entitled to preferential access to citizenship.
We have to consider a number of issues that we would like to settle as soon as possible. The work has not been finished yet. We have now “capitalised” what we have agreed on at the current stage. The President approved the consensus that was reached. We will continue to work to further improve the process and ease conditions for acquiring citizenship. The more so that at President Putin’s direction, the United Russia party, our leading political force, formed a commission on international cooperation and assistance to compatriots abroad. It involves not only helping compatriots come to Russia but also in the sense in which we discussed your first question - so as to make them feel as comfortable as possible upon arrival.
A couple of days ago the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper ran an article about history textbooks published currently in the former Soviet republics. I will not comment on what Estonians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Latvians are writing in them. However, regarding the CIS countries, we have repeatedly told them that nationalists should not be given pretexts by exploiting difficult moments in our common history. It ultimately helped all the peoples inhabiting this huge geopolitical space to lay the foundation for building their statehood. While we acknowledge the newly independent states’ aspiration to self-determination which I mentioned, overheated assessments should be avoided as they obviously, and maybe intentionally, play into the hands of extremists and nationalists.
Last year, a decision was signed within the Commonwealth of Independent States on establishing an international association (commission) of historians and archivists from CIS member states. It will focus, among other things, on discussing the issues of our common history with an eye toward a constructive consideration of all matters. I don’t think there will be unified history textbooks, but guidelines will be produced to reflect a consolidated point of view and a variety of perspectives. We have a commission of historians with Germany, Poland and Lithuania. They release joint documents. I believe that a similar mechanism within the Commonwealth will operate much more constructively in view of our closeness in many organisations – CSTO, EAEU, CIS and SCO.

Question: To follow up on our relations with the United States, you just said that we will continue to work with them. A meeting with Antony Blinken will take place soon. However, now that we have their answer, many analysts, in fact, almost all of them, are saying that the United States and the Alliance members are unlikely to change their position on the main issues. They are saying that “the ball is in Russia’s court now, and we are ready for any scenario.” You are saying our President said that we would respond, and that the response is in the works. The Foreign Ministry is involved in this. Can we have a sneak peek at the direction in which our Foreign Ministry is going to move in order to shoot the “ball” back at them? Is it Latin America? Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua? Could it be Europe? Serbia? Maybe we can do something with Iran? Can you give us a hint about what our response should be like for these guys to sit down, use their heads and try to give us different answers to our main questions, rather than secondary ones?

Sergey Lavrov: If they insist on not changing their position, we will not change ours, either. It's just that their position is based on false premises and a flat-out misrepresentation of the facts. Our position is based on things that everyone has signed onto. I don't see any room for a compromise here. Otherwise, what are we supposed to talk about if they openly sabotage and misrepresent previous decisions? This will be a key test for us.
As for the “ball,” we are playing different games. They may be playing baseball, while we may be playing tipcat. What matters is not to try to shirk responsibility, which is exactly what our American and other NATO partners are doing now.
They will not succeed in dodging the question of why they are not complying with what their presidents have signed onto, namely, that it is unacceptable to strengthen one’s security at the expense of the security of others.
Regarding our relations with Latin America, Serbia, Iran, China and many other states that act decently in the international arena, are not trying to unilaterally impose anything on anyone and are always willing to seek mutually acceptable solutions to any issues. Our relations are not subject to the vagaries of life. They are quite comprehensive and cover economic, cultural, educational, and sports contacts. They also include military and defence cooperation in full compliance with international law. I assure you that no matter how developments unfold with regard to European security, we will continue to consistently expand these relations.
I would like to underscore that we are studying their response and we have already provided our initial assessments. It is not satisfactory with regard to the main issue: the West fails to honour its obligations in terms of indivisibility of security and ignores our interests, although we laid them out in an extremely straightforward and clear way
With regard to issues of secondary importance, they were shocked by us presenting these documents publicly. This helped change their negative attitude towards our previous proposals, including medium- and short- range missiles and working out de-escalation measures during the exercises. This means that the West understands only this kind of language, and we should continue in the same vein that we did when we put forward our initiatives. We are now focused on getting explanations. We cannot accept evasive answers when it comes to the indivisibility of security. The West is shirking its commitments just as it failed to deliver on its commitment not to expand NATO. But then (as it is now telling us) it was a verbal commitment. Now, written commitments are available. Respond to us in writing to our written demands. Explain how you fulfill the written commitments signed by your presidents.

Question: When it is necessary to come to the defence of Russian journalists that are subjected to certain restrictions in the US or Germany, and we know the story with RT, the Foreign Ministry is forcefully intervening and defending them both on and off the record, and not only Maria Zakharova but also at the level of ambassador, deputy minister and at your level. When it comes to the countries with which we have closer relations, your department is quite modest. It is enough to recall the case of the Komsomolskaya Pravda journalists and the end of their news office that is practically closed. Its chief is behind bars.
I would like to remind you of the murders of journalists. When our journalists were killed in Ukraine, the Foreign Ministry took a very tough, assertive position that was hard to ignore, but it was silent when our journalists were murdered in the Central African Republic (CAR). 
Here’s a question from our listener Dmitry Muratov from Moscow, a Nobel Prize winner and editor-in-chief of Novaya Gazeta. Without any additional investigation or operational measures, the new ambassador of Russia to the CAR named the murderers of the Russian journalists – the 3R group. The Foreign Ministry is aware of this but their families are not. The clothes of the journalists were burned as evidence, no investigation was conducted and the Foreign Ministry does not make any statements as regards the CAR leaders. Maybe, the Foreign Ministry should become more active in these cases with respect to both the Belarusian government and the CAR leaders?

Sergey Lavrov: You are right in saying that we must always defend the rights of Russian citizens, and not only journalists but every citizen, and the Americans have simply abducted dozens of them. We must also protect our journalists when there are obvious reasons for doing so. 
We expressed our concern over what was happening with the Komsomolskaya Pravda news office. We talked with Mr Sungorkin about this. As I understand, the matter concerns Belarusian citizens and a specific Belarusian citizen. This is a somewhat different story. Any country that allows dual citizenship follows its own laws if something happens on its territory. I don’t want to go into details but there are issues that require silence. We did quite a bit to persuade the Belarusian authorities to be understanding. Now their position is what it is, and I cannot argue against it. They are ready to open any news office but its employees have to be citizens of the Russian Federation.
We could also look at how Russian journalists are treated in the West and how their working conditions are dictated there. I think a request to employ Russian citizens in Russian media is not beyond the pale. We believe the rights of journalists must be respected without exception everywhere, including Belarus or any other CIS country. If these rights are openly violated, we will continue to raise questions about this.
As for the CAR, we are willing to convey any information we have to the families of the dead journalists. As for the culprits, as you know, the CAR authorities are conducting an investigation. I don’t want to excuse the acts of these murderers. I can only say that journalists should take precautions. If they had at least notified the Foreign Ministry and our Embassy that they were bound for a country with a domestic armed conflict and a terrorist threat, the chances of avoiding this tragedy would have been a bit higher. This was all the more important since they went there as tourists, without declaring the purpose of their visit. Let me repeat again that this is not an excuse but this creates additional security risks in such cases.
Therefore, I’d like everyone to know that we do want journalists to work all over the world, including hot spots. I remove my hat and bow to all those who do such reporting in flak jackets and helmets, and let me say something, in passing, to your colleagues in eastern Ukraine. Once again I am addressing, through you, those who may have some influence on Western journalism and the media. Why do journalists appear sporadically, once every six months, at best, on the Kiev-controlled side of the contact line in Donbass? Why is their reporting so spotty? It would be very interesting to see them there. On the other side of the contact line, our journalists show the results of the atrocities committed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine that are bombing kindergartens, outpatient clinics and residential areas and killing people. According to the OSCE, civilian casualties on the side controlled by Donbass defenders are five times higher than on the opposite side. This speaks for itself.
Let’s return to the Central African Republic. We again sent an inquiry to the CAR government when the information about this 3R group emerged. We will do all we can to bring this investigation to completion. As you know, their government is dealing with this. Let me emphasise once again that we want to know the truth. I would like to impress upon our journalist colleagues and friends the importance of notifying us about trips to hot spots (if you don’t trust the Ministry, I cannot force you to do this). Please do it for the sake of your own safety. It will help.

Question: Thank you very much for your support to our service in connection with what happened to Gennady Mozheiko. Our thanks go to Alexei Venediktov for bringing up this issue. Gennady Mozheiko has been in police custody for four months now and not even once has he been questioned. He’s just sitting there. I appealed to Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko [for assistance] but, so far, there has been no response.
You were right in saying that it is not only a matter of journalists. Today, according to the Russian Embassy in Belarus, 457 Russian nationals are behind bars in Belarus. This is only what the embassy says, and I suspect the real figure is even bigger. Yesterday, another person – Russian national Vera Tsvikevich – was added to this list. She was detained only for taking, during the protests, a photograph of herself, a selfie, in a beautiful red dress with a patrol in the background. She was taken to prison for that. Judging by the precedents, she will be sentenced to two years in prison. Something needs to be done about this.
As for Belarus, we should have a very different relationship with them, as this is the Union State. Today, our journalists believe their work to be the most difficult in Belarus and not in Georgia or America, or Israel, and so on. We are constantly talking about the Union State, saying that we need to synchronise our legislation. What is in store for us, with regard to what I just said? Do we stand any chance of becoming a true Union State?

Sergey Lavrov: As for the Union State, you know, there are 28 union programmes that were approved last autumn...

Question: They have not been published, which is an interesting fact.

Sergey Lavrov: These are framework documents. They contain no secrets. They provide for work that has already started to flesh out each of the 28 programmes with specific and direct legal decisions in the economy, financial activities, transport, communications and so on. It is an important step towards consolidating economic assets. According to the two presidents, this work has to be completed in the next two to three years. This means embarking on the path to the Union State with much broader powers.
Yesterday, we saw off the newly-appointed Ambassador, Boris Gryzlov who was leaving for Belarus. I handed him letters of credence signed by the Russian President. This ceremony was attended by Belarusian Ambassador to Russia Vladimir Semashko. I recalled that our joint work also includes efforts to align the rights of the people of the two countries. Much has already been done. I believe 95 percent of rights have been aligned; however, the remaining outstanding issues in some areas need to be addressed as soon as possible. In particular, this includes the terms on which healthcare services or hotel accommodation are to be provided to people travelling privately. This is all very important for the daily life of people. 
But the question you asked is not about what the Union State will look like in the end. Even if the criminal legislation of the two countries has been unified in full, there will still be Russians detained in Belarus and Belarusians detained in Russia. Our embassy keeps a close eye on the course of legal proceedings involving detained Russian nationals. The law enforcement agencies and prosecutor general’s offices of the two countries stay in contact. I haven’t heard anything about Vera Tsvikevich. Is this today’s newspaper?

Remark: No. It was issued in 2020.
Sergey Lavrov: Why then did you say that she was added to this list yesterday?

Remark: She was detained yesterday. The newspaper is old but she was detained yesterday.

Sergey Lavrov: Is she on the staff of Komsomolskaya Pravda?

Remark: No, she is just a Russian national. I said that about 500 Russian nationals were serving sentence in Belarus.

Sergey Lavrov: Four hundred fifty-seven. So, she will be the 458th . We will be watching what happens to her, the way we do it in any other country. There are questions that require close cooperation between the law enforcement agencies. I would rather not talk about them now in public but such questions do exist. It is important that they are resolved in a manner characteristic of two allies or brotherly nations. We will invariably adhere to this line.

Question: Mine is not a question but an urgent request concerning the fate of the German RT channel. We have not faced such unprecedented and uncompromising pressure, actually not even pressure but a real ban on work, in any other country, not the US or the UK, as in the Federal Republic of Germany. It is all disguised with hypocritical statements by German leaders at different levels. Supposedly, they have nothing to do with the closure of the German YouTube channel. Even when we gained the largest audience in the history of the English-language YouTube among the world’s TV channels, we were not shut down. They didn’t dare. But the Germans did.  They pressured Luxembourg so as to have our licence denied even though practically everything had been agreed and done there. Ultimately, we were given the licence in Serbia. They pressured the European regulators – so we can’t broadcast with that licence either. Titanic efforts of hundreds of people who had been building the channel amid the pandemic, produced shows, won the audience – all that was in vain. The audience was sacrificed to interests. Nobody shows the German people what we show.
The only thing that can affect them (as was the case with the UK) is reciprocity, which you are more familiar with than we are. Deutsche Welle has not even been designated as a foreign agent, even though this status does not entail what it does in the US (criminal charges). In our country it is just a piece of paper and an occasion to shout about it. In fact, it does not entail anything. Foreign agents take interviews, they are invited to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s press conferences. To say nothing about shutting down Deutsche Welle here the way they shut us down in Germany. This also concerns other German media outlets. Please, help us.

Sergey Lavrov: You don’t need to persuade me. Just yesterday the Russian Embassy in Berlin demanded an explanation. Procedures are underway. This is not within the competence of the federal agency but of the regulator of the German states Berlin and Brandenburg. The embassy’s lawyers looked into precedents. The Axel Springer concern had faced a similar situation but they quickly got a licence.
The key here is that the Germans are trying to place their internal regulations, which allegedly prohibit the registration of state-run channels, above their commitments under the European Convention on Transfrontier Television. According to our information, their regulators are using various pretexts to justify the primacy of their national law. This won’t do. The result will be the same as the NATO enlargement – this is what they want so they won’t do the things they had promised somewhere else. The Germans know that reciprocal measures will follow. I raised this issue when German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock was here on a visit. I think she and her delegation heard it. I am going to have a telephone conversation with her today. I will definitely remind her.

Question: A scandal is unfolding in the United States. CNN published a report citing its own sources. In it, they alleged that the United States and Ukrainian presidents talked on the phone, with Joe Biden supposedly yelling at Vladimir Zelensky in an attempt to explain to him in a raised voice that unless he changes his position on Donbass, Kiev will fall and be pillaged, etc. CNN published this report on its website, but later removed it. Still, the scandal lives on. Both Joe Biden and Vladimir Zelensky are getting questions about this. In this telephone conversation, the President of the United States allegedly requested that the President of Ukraine urgently resolve the special status issue for Donbass.
If Kiev does decide to amend its constitution and grant Donbass a special status, will this affect Russia’s policy on Ukraine in any way? To be honest, you cannot trust these people. There are 720,000 Russian nationals there today, and in the future there could be even more of them. We do understand the threats they may face after obtaining a Russian passport. Are we ready for these eventualities? What will be Russia’s policy on the people’s republics?

Sergey Lavrov: We have always stressed the need to fully implement the Minsk agreements in good faith and following the sequence it sets forth. As my colleagues and I have been saying in our public statements, during the Geneva summit meeting in June 2021 between the Russian and United States presidents, Joe Biden said at his own initiative that he wanted to facilitate the implementation of the Minsk agreements, including in terms of granting an autonomous (this was the word he used) status to Donbass. He understands everything.
This is consistent with what the Minsk agreements say. The special status provisions they set forth cannot be subject to any equivocal interpretations. What needs to be done is clear. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken reassured me that they want to help implement the Minsk agreements. His under-secretaries said that the US would not join the Normandy format but still wants to help. If they do force Kiev (nobody else can do it), this outcome would suit us. So far, I find this hard to believe. They are playing a game by continuing to supply weapons. Some tend to interpret these deliveries as a support for those ready to engage in a senseless armed conflict. This is something many have to factor into their projections. In fact, hardly anyone wants this, but there is still a small group of people who stand to benefit from it, in one way or another.
Why are the Americans the only ones that can force Kiev into compliance? The Normandy format met in Paris at the level of political advisors to the four leaders. Deputy Chief of Staff of the Presidential Executive Office Dmitry Kozak travelled there. They agreed to take two more weeks to understand how they can move forward in carrying out the Minsk agreements.
France, Germany and the European Union name Russia as a party to the conflict. What kind of agreement can we reach in these circumstances? They are saying we must comply with the Minsk agreements. President Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Kozak have repeatedly stated that no one has ever given us an answer to the question of which specific provision we must comply with. The implication is that everything depends on Russia. It's like we snap our fingers and everything will come to pass.
Kiev realised that Berlin and Paris would not insist on it complying with the Minsk agreements. President Zelensky said he didn’t like the Package of Measures, but it was nonetheless important, because it keeps Western sanctions on Russia in place. That’s all there is to it: nothing but crude cynicism. Ukraine realises that it can do anything now. Vladimir Zelensky and his regime are being used (primarily by the Americans) to escalate tensions and to engage their underlings in Europe, who are playing along with the Americans as they pursue their Russophobic undertakings. The future of Ukraine is not Washington’s main goal in this particular case. It is important for the United States to escalate tensions around the Russian Federation in order to “close” this issue and then “deal with” China, as US political scientists are saying. How do they plan to “close” it? I have no idea. If there are any reasonable political strategists still out there, they must realise that this road leads nowhere.
The Americans are using Ukraine against Russia so openly and cynically that the Kiev regime itself is now scared. They are now saying there is no need to aggravate the discussion and are suggesting that the Americans keep down the rhetoric, and are also wondering why evacuate diplomats. Who is evacuating diplomats? The Americans and other Anglo-Saxons (Canada and the UK), meaning they know something others don’t. Perhaps, pending a provocation on their part, we should take precautionary measures with regard to our diplomats as well. We’ll see about that.
I have already answered the question about how we feel about the recently vocalised idea of recognising the Lugansk and Donetsk people's republics. My answer is straightforward: we must push for the implementation of the Minsk agreements. There’s a host of people out there who are ready to grab any excuse to remove blame from Kiev for the sabotage which it has been involved in for eight years now with regard to the document approved by the UN Security Council.

Question: You said that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has lost touch with reality. Maybe you live in different realities? Today, he will give a live interview to Ekho Moskvy. Do you want to say hi to him or ask a question?

Sergey Lavrov: Serves him right.

Question: I looked through the list of the sanctions approved by the US Congress and Treasury last year. The absolute majority of them are associated with the name of Alexey Navalny, not Ukraine. The OPCW (independent German, French and Swedish labs) found traces of a poisonous substance in his blood, which clearly means that he was poisoned. The Foreign Ministry requested assistance. But Russia did not open a criminal investigation. Germany said in that case there would be no help. We are members of the OPCW. You have seen the report on Navalny. Do you continue to cooperate on this matter? We are in the minority in every single international European organisation. We are saying that the ECHR, PACE, the OSCE and the OPCW are Russophobes. Could it be that Russia is the one that is out of step?
Sergey Lavrov: I'll start off by saying that I watched Euronews yesterday. There was a story about the village of Dvani in Georgia, near the South Ossetian border. It is located in an area that Georgia considers its territory. The reporter said he was in the village of Dvani at the separation line, with the administrative border that Russia keeps fortifying behind him. A house owned by a Georgian “was burned down during the war.” The new one “came into the Russian military’s surveillance zone.” A local resident said that we were “abducting people in unfathomable ways.” A Georgian journalist said that he has been “working in the villages near the conflict zone for several years now” and that “14 years have passed since the war that forced the people to live in difficult circumstances ended. They are losing their lands and forest allotments almost daily. People are being kidnapped. Russian troops are detaining them,” etc. Then the reporter continued to say that “after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Georgia was the first among the former Soviet republics to experience an escalation of separatism and armed confrontation, and thousands of refugees are still unable to return home.”
He didn’t say, though, anything about what kind of separatism took root in Georgia even before the breakup of the Soviet Union. Zviad Gamsakhurdia was quite chauvinistic in his demands for Abkhazians to get out or to “georgify.” He believed South Ossetia residents did not deserve humane treatment. Nobody is saying anything about it. Then comes a brilliant phrase: “In 2008, when the conflict entered the hot phase, Russia took South Ossetia’s side.” This is Euronews, which touts itself as a channel of fair news and an epitome of diversity when it comes to presenting diverse viewpoints. They did not even mention how the fratricidal conflict began.
I’m saying this because you asked a question about the OPCW without mentioning the reference points that require clarification. If we state it the way you framed your question, then Michael McFaul and other unsophisticated listeners may get the impression that all of that is true. You are saying we asked the Germans to provide clarifications, and they wanted us to open a criminal investigation before they give us anything. What is that all about? Germany's obligations under the European Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters are not dependent on whether a particular country opens a criminal investigation or not. Under our laws, a criminal case can be opened if there is corroborating evidence. This is in no way inconsistent with multiple instances of using this procedure in relations with many other countries. We have a lot of material which we circulate around the world. I’m sure reporters from Ekho Moskvy and other media outlets have access to it.
We are still waiting for an answer to our question about who flew in to pick up Alexey Navalny. Why the plane that flew to Omsk to pick him up was chartered the day before he fell ill. Why are there no answers to the purely specific and factual questions asked in the German Parliament: how come the pilot, who did not want Maria Pevchikh to take the bottle onboard, eventually let her do so? There was also a sixth passenger. These questions were asked at the Bundestag. Why is it impossible to question Ms Pevchikh? The Germans say she did not communicate with the blogger and did not visit him at the hospital. She wrote that she did. The bottle she brought along has not been shown to anyone. Our requests to run a joint examination of it are rejected. Allegations that illegal poisonous substances were found in Mr Navalny’s body began after no CWC-prohibited substances had been found by the Charité clinic, which is a civilian hospital. All of that was “discovered” at a clinic operated by the Bundeswehr in a matter of just three days. Before that, a similar scenario unfolded with the Skripal family. We insisted that the investigation must be grounded in hard facts, not “highly likely” assumptions. We cited facts that there are almost 150 patents for the infamous Novichok in the West, in particular, the United States. It was developed in Europe as well. Then Germany, France, Sweden and many other countries swore that they did not have this technology. Without the technology, it is impossible to detect this substance in the human body in three days. Any more or less experienced chemist is aware of that.
At first, the Germans told us that they would not give us the materials, because they constituted “classified military information.” How’s that? We are being accused of murder or attempted murder, and the information is classified. By definition, they should not have access to this technology if they are bona fide participants in the CWC. Then they began to say that they could give it to us, but Navalny says no. What's next? At the same time, his lawyer criticised Dmitry Peskov for accusing the blogger of collaborating with the CIA and demanded proof. What kind of proof? US intelligence officers came to see him at the hospital, which Dmitry Peskov mentioned. We are demanding proof behind the accusation of attempted murder, but we are then told that he does not want to.
We asked the OPCW to provide the results but were told that they could do so only with the permission of the Germans. The circle closed. Read carefully the paper released by the OPCW. It says that some substances were discovered that are similar in composition to other substances that are on the OPCW’s banned chemicals list. Not a word about Novichok. Neither the Germans, nor the French, nor the Swedes gave us the formula. It’s classified. The formula is the proof of whether this is true or pure deception and lies.
I am inclined to believe that so far the West has no grounds to accuse us. This is done for the purpose of instigating a provocation. I mentioned the day when a special flight was chartered to fly to Omsk to pick up Mr Navalny. The day before the poisoning, the Germans (according to the OPCW report) asked The Hague for assistance in conducting the investigation of this case. Then they said it was a typo, and everything actually happened later. There are many interesting things there. In early September 2020, the Germans contacted the OPCW. The OPCW Secretariat concealed this from us for several days. In hindsight, they confessed that the Germans allegedly asked them not to tell anyone. Doesn’t it all look suspicious? It does to me, and suspicions run deep. I encourage Ekho Moskvy and other radio stations’ listeners to go the Foreign Ministry’s website and read the material containing a vast number of legitimate questions that remain unanswered by the West to this day.

Question: The most popular question: will there be a war with Ukraine?

Sergey Lavrov: This is what we started off with. If it’s up to the Russian Federation, there will be no war. I do not rule out the possibility that someone out there would like to provoke hostilities.
According to the West, there are about 100,000 troops on the line of contact. The Kiev regime does not control most of these armed men. A significant portion of the units that are stationed there include the former volunteer battalions, current territorial defence units, and militia. MANPADS are already being handed out to them. The media are reporting this information. They are encouraged to bring along hunting rifles with them, because there aren’t enough MANPADS for everyone. This is a militaristic frenzy. I cannot rule out the possibility of someone losing it, just like that soldier who shot and killed five of his fellow servicemen.

Question: Why aren’t we talking with Vladimir Zelensky? He is one of us, a former Komsomol member with a background in Channel One.

Sergey Lavrov: He is also a “piano player.” President Vladimir Putin answered this question. If President Zelensky wants to talk about normalising bilateral relations that were damaged by the unilateral actions of his regime, actions to which we responded, Russia stands ready to do so. Let him come to Moscow, Sochi, or St Petersburg, wherever they may agree. But if he wants to discuss Donbass – please go to the Contact Group, which, according to the Normandy format’s decision, is in charge of all settlement issues directly between Kiev, Donetsk and Lugansk. When he says he won’t talk to us, this bodes ill for the domestic Ukrainian crisis. If he has something to offer in order to restore bilateral relations, the destruction of which Kiev, Vladimir Zelensky and his predecessor initiated, we are ready to consider his proposals. President Vladimir Putin has stated this in no uncertain terms.

Question: Another meme for a T-shirt from Minister Lavrov: “Please go to the Contact Group.”
Question: Are we going to evacuate our staff from Kiev as well?

Sergey Lavrov: We discussed this bout of insanity that is being fomented in Ukraine, primarily by the Anglo-Saxons and some Europeans. Dramatic claims that everyone must leave the place are part of this insanity. People who came there to tend to their business are urged to leave. Diplomats and their families are being taken home and non-core staff is being cut.
We cannot let it go unnoticed or turn a blind eye to it. If they are doing this (even though the Ukrainians haven’t asked them to), could it be that the Anglo-Saxons are up to something? The British particularly have a long track record in this area.

Question: This happened after you said something during a meeting with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken. What did you say or show to him? Immediately after the Geneva meeting, he started saying that diplomats should be evacuated. You must have done something.

Sergey Lavrov: You are mistaken if you think that I have lost the ability to understand what is happening around me. I didn't say anything to him. In a one-on-one conversation (I hope this will not offend him) he told me that if something happens, their people would be there... It sounded rather strange to me. That’s what I told him.
Take my word for it, we discussed nothing but security guarantees. Then I raised the issue of the unacceptable state of affairs with our diplomatic missions. I made a proposal which we eventually agreed upon. In a couple of weeks, another meeting between experts will take place. I can assure you that no threats were uttered. However, we cannot leave things without analysis. We are analysing them to see what stands behind the Anglo-Saxons’ actions.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2022, 11:07:47 PM
U.S. recommends leaving Belarus  in addition to Ukraine.  Is Moldova the only "safe " fsu destination?

Moldova is apparently even poorer than Ukraine, even I would have a godlike presence there :D

Apparently Russia has hit Ukraine with cyber attacks, on its banking and on its defense organisation. It was generally thought this would happen before an attack. My guess is that its only going to be effective so long before the Ukrainians have their defense IT network up and running again otherwise the Russians will have to try and cyber attack again. Maybe a Russian attack is very soon, maybe 3AM Thursday night or similar.

Whatever the case Russia doesn't seem very sincere with their intentions to talk and reach an agreement with the West & Ukraine. After all why keep hitting Ukraine with cyber attacks like this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10515943/Ukraine-hit-cyber-attack-targeting-ministry-defence-banks-alleged-Russian-hybrid-war.html

Apparently if anything Russia has added more troops rather than withdrawn any this article says:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10517169/Putin-stays-talks-sends-troops-Biden-says-war-risk.html

They reckon that they may carry out a false flag under the pretext that just as they were withdrawing they were attacked what I was thinking or the reason to attack as genocide in Eastern Ukraine as CB thought.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 03:03:05 AM
Ben Wallace confirmed this morning that there has been "no evidence" of any Russian de-escalation,that 60% of Russia's ground forces backed-up by Air and Naval power,continue to encircle Ukraine,and indeed that more military equipment and field hospitals are being installed on the border.


So it seems the Russians lied yesterday.


Who knew ?  :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 16, 2022, 03:59:07 AM
Ben Wallace confirmed this morning that there has been "no evidence" of any Russian de-escalation,that 60% of Russia's ground forces backed-up by Air and Naval power,continue to encircle Ukraine,and indeed that more military equipment and field hospitals are being installed on the border.


So it seems the Russians lied yesterday.


Who knew ?  :rolleyes:

So looks even more like they are getting fully prepared for an Invasion. That they lied and tried to pull a stunt seemingly suggests that they can't be trusted and are up to something. Possibly they may bring in more air support for their troops, so possibly an Invasion around the end of the Olympics may occur as one Ukrainian General seemed to think.

I also wonder if the Russians might end up permanently encamped around the Ukrainian border. Long term it will no doubt play havoc with the economy, flights will be a no go and if Russia continues to blockade Ukraine's ports that will have a particularly damaging impact on their economy. Possibly trying to cause enough economic damage to get Ukraine to bend to its will. The threat of a Russian Invasion all year round could take its toll on Ukrainian citizens also. Apparently it was reckoned that Putin could only keep his forces there till the end of Spring roughly due to cost but who knows perhaps that person was wrong. Main cost I would have thought would be in moving the army back and forth and on military exercises, firing missiles, etc. The rest of the cost surely is what Russia pays all year round anyway, the cost of service personnel and equipment.

I'm not sure that Russia would take in the cost of moving the army around like it has done for no purpose. They did last year but that looks like it was a trial run. This time the signs of an Invasion seem a lot more prominent. I'm still thinking Putin is on the last stage of preparing for an Invasion and just manoeuvring for a reason then will occur. Could be within days now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 16, 2022, 05:21:19 AM
All this reminds me of the ReForGer exercises in the 70's and 80's.  Convoys of of US tanks and military equipment filling the autobahns going east, Air Force fighters buzzing low enough to make dishes in the china cabinet shake, and soldiers setting up camp in your village.  I wonder how USSR felt about all that back then.  I was just a kid and it was quite a spectacle, later on not so much in the military having to put on gas masks and such during exercises.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 16, 2022, 06:03:04 AM
So looks even more like they are getting fully prepared for an Invasion. That they lied and tried to pull a stunt seemingly suggests that they can't be trusted and are up to something. Possibly they may bring in more air support for their troops, so possibly an Invasion around the end of the Olympics may occur as one Ukrainian General seemed to think.

I also wonder if the Russians might end up permanently encamped around the Ukrainian border. Long term it will no doubt play havoc with the economy, flights will be a no go and if Russia continues to blockade Ukraine's ports that will have a particularly damaging impact on their economy. Possibly trying to cause enough economic damage to get Ukraine to bend to its will. The threat of a Russian Invasion all year round could take its toll on Ukrainian citizens also. Apparently it was reckoned that Putin could only keep his forces there till the end of Spring roughly due to cost but who knows perhaps that person was wrong. Main cost I would have thought would be in moving the army back and forth and on military exercises, firing missiles, etc. The rest of the cost surely is what Russia pays all year round anyway, the cost of service personnel and equipment.

I'm not sure that Russia would take in the cost of moving the army around like it has done for no purpose. They did last year but that looks like it was a trial run. This time the signs of an Invasion seem a lot more prominent. I'm still thinking Putin is on the last stage of preparing for an Invasion and just manoeuvring for a reason then will occur. Could be within days now.
More of Trenchies winning theories.
Mobilising an army incurs vast costs.
No country can afford to keep its armed forces mobilized for war for an extended period from peacetime positions.
Cost aside, it has all kinds of other implications affecting war readiness.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 16, 2022, 06:10:14 AM
I'm not sure that Russia would take in the cost of moving the army around like it has done for no purpose.

Doesn't cost them a dime more than they already pay.  In fact, they profit from the spike in oil and energy prices.

Meanwhile, US and NATO are shelling out a bundle burning additional fuel, further helping to raise demand and fill Putin's pockets even more.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 16, 2022, 08:20:19 AM
US Intelligence has since said that they haven't seen any obvious sign of troop withdrawal.

Putin has said to the German Chancellor that he does not wish for war.

What actually happens who knows.

A night time attack at 3am would probably be the best time. Russian forces could be closing in on Kyiv just as Ukrainians are waking up in the morning. I don't reckon it will be tonight though now that time has been spread about.

I think Putin may just be manoeuvring himself now to find a reason to attack. Just after saying he doesn't wish for war may not be the best time as so soon could look very shallow. My guess is if he wants to invade he'll give a good day or two and then make a move. Quite what the excuse will be who knows, possibly as CB suggests to stop the supposed 'genocide' in Eastern Ukraine. Would probably sound better and more justified than any false flag carry on.

It why I said the games people play ....

On BOTH sides.

As far as your thoughts on attack timing.

1pm.3am 9pm ,makes zero difference in modern warfare.

Do you think military sleeps in hoping to fight after first coffee?

As far as the average citizen being in bed at 3am as he works a day shift.
Unless per organized that average citizens effect on initial invasion is fundamentally zero.

(Granted that same ordinary citizen in an occupied country resisting in organized guerilla warfare is devastating and a country cant be held if most citizens resist)

But initial.invasion timing if all.out war (and I still do not think that will occur) could be anytime the russian military wants it to be. And they could have already ,procrastination if it was their intent hurts them, so I just dont think its thecroot intent
They have far superior airpower and would take out communications first. Then mop up. Modern history shows this is less than 24 hours (typically much less) by any modern major power in initial conflict.(Iraq  or afganistan was on a scale of 100s of times the experoenced military personal and preparedness of Ukraine)
Now occupying it is a completely different issue.

This is posturing for effect ,and look how effective it has been?





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 08:53:24 AM
Our current hyperventilating administration's intelligence agencies went from *an imminent invasion as soon as within this week* to *an attack is still a distinct possibility*.

Blood, guts and gore, baby. The evil empire amasses thousands of military personnel and its war machines ready to pounce on poor military-inferior territories, conducting very provocative military drills, yadayada - and not expect a nation not to react about such displays of hegemony?

From the Korean peninsula, to the China seas, to the borders of Estonia, Kosovo and plenty other European nations, Somalia and the Congos, the Arabian peninsulas, the Persian gulf to the Barents sea...

WE (the US) really need to stop these *threats of imminent attack* upon other nations in our attempt to spread our brand of freedom (LMAO) and democracy (sic).


Proof? Ask yourself a very simple question: Which nation had bombed and invaded other nations in the recent past?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 09:33:54 AM
Our current hyperventilating administration's intelligence agencies went from *an imminent invasion as soon as within this week* to *an attack is still a distinct possibility*.

Blood, guts and gore, baby. The evil empire amasses thousands of military personnel and its war machines ready to pounce on poor military-inferior territories, conducting very provocative military drills, yadayada - and not expect a nation not to react about such displays of hegemony?

From the Korean peninsula, to the China seas, to the borders of Estonia, Kosovo and plenty other European nations, Somalia and the Congos, the Arabian peninsulas, the Persian gulf to the Barents sea...

WE (the US) really need to stop these *threats of imminent attack* upon other nations in our attempt to spread our brand of freedom (LMAO) and democracy (sic).


Proof? Ask yourself a very simple question: Which nation had bombed and invaded other nations in the recent past?


Russia for a start..they invaded and bombed Georgia in 2008.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 09:38:40 AM

Russia for a start..they invaded and bombed Georgia in 2008.

Very true. Ukraine in 2014, yes!

Russia= II
UK = http://www.mentalfloss.com/article/13019/there-are-only-22-countries-world-british-haven%E2%80%99t-invaded (http://www.mentalfloss.com/article/13019/there-are-only-22-countries-world-british-haven%E2%80%99t-invaded)
US = ??

How'bout the UK, grasshopper? The US?!? how'bout those peace and freedom-loving nations? If you get stumped, LOVE to help a bruddah out!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 09:39:45 AM
On a Sky News live feed from Kiev a Ukrainian guy got quite emotional as he said Ukrainians are saying "God bless the Queen " for the support the UK is giving Ukraine.


Trench will be like a rock star if he can get over there this year. :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 09:43:55 AM
Very true. Ukraine in 2014, yes!

Russia= II
UK = ??
US = ??

How'bout the UK, grasshopper? The US?!? how'bout those peace and freedom-loving nations? If you get stumped, LOVE to help a bruddah out!


Yep we're just as bad..no argument from me about that.


Many Brits,including me,consider Tony Blair a war criminal for the invasion of Iraq based on fabricated info put out about WMD.


Millions over here protested about it at the time.


Blair didn't get sent down but instead made millions in after-dinner speeches in the USA. >:D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 09:46:21 AM

Yep we're just as bad..no argument from me about that.


Many Brits,including me,consider Tony Blair a war criminal for the invasion of Iraq based on fabricated info put out about WMD.


Millions over here protested about it at the time.


Blair didn't get sent down but instead made millions in after-dinner speeches in the USA. >:D


Mr. Tony Blair??? That's it? Are you sure?


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/libya-civil-war-david-cameron-gaddafi-bombing-brexit-a8863306.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/libya-civil-war-david-cameron-gaddafi-bombing-brexit-a8863306.html)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 09:55:36 AM
I'm no fan of Cameron,but in fairness to him Libya attacked us first..with Lockerbie.


Libya and Gaddafi brought it upon themselves.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 10:09:50 AM
I'm no fan of Cameron,but in fairness to him Libya attacked us first..with Lockerbie.

Libya and Gaddafi brought it upon themselves.

Really?! How'bout the colonization of Tripolitania? Does that count? Can colonization fall in the definition of an 'invasion'? Oppression, slavery, murder, rape, pillaging?

What do you think?


How'bout Afghanistan? What did that country ever do to the UK?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 16, 2022, 11:05:44 AM
Ukraine's problems have basically cone about because of the EU. There was a push in Ukraine prior to 2014 to look to EU membership, when the then Ukrainian President backed out an agreement that would have put Ukraine on the path to EU Membership that's when it all went south, Ukrainian unrest, overturning the Ukrainian government of the day and ousting the then Ukrainian President as he was seen as too aligned with Russia for some. The ever expansionist EU just couldn't hold back from seeking to expand further. Now they are stony broke and unable to thank god. Poland & Hungary are becoming discontent and in Ukraine joining the EU isn't as popular as it once was in any case. Anyhow the increasingly pro western anti Russian government from 2014 onwards has riled Russia up a lot. I think the new Ukrainian government after the unrest in 2014 should have been more conciliatory towards the ex-President and eastern Ukrainian regions then they wouldn't be in this mess.

On the other hand if they kept hold of a couple of hundred nukes they wouldn't be in this mess either. Both giving up all their nukes and trying to join the EU bad mistakes I think. Prior to 2014 Russia seemed content enough with the situation with Ukraine. I'm not saying it is right what Russia is doing, clearly it is not but I think bad policy mistakes have been made along the way both by Ukraine and the EU.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 11:19:39 AM
GQBlues,


If you're accusing British troops of rape,pillage and murder in Tripolitania i suggest you provide proof of this to the British Ministry of Defence....i'm sure they'll be intrigued by your evidence of this .


As for Afghanistan you can thank Tony Blair for that again.seems that his bum-licking of the USA made him a very wealthy man on the USA after-dinner circuit.


Of course Russia spent nine years killing people in Afghanistan,after they invaded in 1979, before the UK entered the country...i don't see you questioning them though.


I wonder why ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 16, 2022, 12:09:03 PM
Russia also has aided the al-Assad regime in Syria, rather successfully.  Unbothered by pesky concepts such as "human rights", they have allegedly killed more civilians than terrorists, in bombing campaigns that have used cluster bombs and white phosphorous bombs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 12:42:54 PM
GQBlues,

If you're accusing British troops of rape,pillage and murder in Tripolitania i suggest you provide proof of this to the British Ministry of Defence....i'm sure they'll be intrigued by your evidence of this .


Accused? LMAO. Fancy that, eh? Short/long term memory loss, bruddah?

Quote
As for Afghanistan you can thank Tony Blair for that again.seems that his bum-licking of the USA made him a very wealthy man on the USA after-dinner circuit.


It seems 'blaming' Blair is rampant in your line of thinking..in the US that's called 'passing the buck'. How did Mr. Blair come into such a powerful position again to cause the UK's bloody hand in Afghanistan again?


But giving Blair a break, what about UK's bloody period in Afghanistan BEFORE Mr. Tony Blair was even born?

Quote
f course Russia spent nine years killing people in Afghanistan,after they invaded in 1979, before the UK entered the country...i don't see you questioning them though.

I wonder why ?


Oh trust me, I'm not a Russia apologist, much less a Putin apologist. I have more than a dozen bricks on my hand myself based on the country I reside in currently. Since you and I are are discussing 'invasions' in this proverbial glass house, it looks as those you've conveniently (intentionally/ignorantly?) forgotten more than a few bricks yourself since you've been so loud about this current event, considering the VERY BLOODY British hands and legacy in the world - currently and in historical past, yah know...

The more things change, the more they remain the same.


 >:D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 16, 2022, 12:47:38 PM
Why does the past matter, beyond us doing better in the future?

Do you think African Americans should receive reparations, as proposed, because of America's history with slavery?

Should first nations be compensated with more land?  More money? 

Should Arab countries pay reparations to Africans, Slavs, Americans, and the Europeans they enslaved?  Should the Turks?  How about the African traders who brought them to Arabs?  Should Belgium pay reparations to the Congolese for their rape of that country, which makes the Brits look like choirboys?  How about the Spaniards?  The Portuguese?  The Japanese?  The Chinese?  The list of those that are "innocent" is, in reality, non existent.  The only reason the Brits get singled out is because they were exceptionally successful.

We are a planet of predators, and no one comes to the dance with clean hands. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 01:03:21 PM
Why does the past matter, beyond us doing better in the future?

Do you think African Americans should receive reparations, as proposed, because of America's history with slavery?

Should first nations be compensated with more land?  More money? 

Should Arab countries pay reparations to Africans, Slavs, Americans, and the Europeans they enslaved?  Should the Turks?  How about the African traders who brought them to Arabs?  Should Belgium pay reparations to the Congolese for their rape of that country, which makes the Brits look like choirboys?  How about the Spaniards?  The Portuguese?  The Japanese?  The Chinese?  The list of those that are "innocent" is, in reality, non existent.  The only reason the Brits get singled out is because they were exceptionally successful.

We are a planet of predators, and no one comes to the dance with clean hands.


Did you conveniently left off the people of first nations in Canada? How about the children of the 'Residential Schools' (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/29/the-childrens-graves-at-residential-schools-in-canada-evoke-the-massacres-of-indigenous-australians)? These aren't exactly 'the past', you know. Rather pretty current actually.


I agree *WE ALL* must do better in the future. The first order for that is, quit throwing bricks at others when all the while neglecting our own demons. Unless we do that, then people simply chooses to be in denial and are too busy blowing hot air because they're either being purposely ignorant or are simply hypocrites.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 16, 2022, 01:11:12 PM
Blinky reckons even more units being moved to the Ukrainian Front rather than away:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10519563/Secretary-State-Blinken-says-Putin-moving-critical-units-Ukrainian-border.html

Looks like they are massing for a major attack. Invasion likely very imminent!

Apparently the troops that were moved were moved back to their home base that is even nearer the Ukraine border than where they were. In the mean time Russia has moved up even more troops. Really does look like they are getting to the climax, their moving troops right up to Ukraine's border now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 02:05:36 PM

Did you conveniently left off the people of first nations in Canada? How about the children of the 'Residential Schools' (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/29/the-childrens-graves-at-residential-schools-in-canada-evoke-the-massacres-of-indigenous-australians)? These aren't exactly 'the past', you know. Rather pretty current actually.


I agree *WE ALL* must do better in the future. The first order for that is, quit throwing bricks at others when all the while neglecting our own demons. Unless we do that, then people simply chooses to be in denial and are too busy blowing hot air because they're either being purposely ignorant or are simply hypocrites.


I have no demons.


I've never invaded another country or killed,maimed ,pillaged or raped.


Have you ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 02:21:01 PM

I have no demons.

I've never invaded another country or killed,maimed ,pillaged or raped.

Have you ?


For a fact, I know a bunch of 4th graders in US public schools that can actually manage a coherent debate compared to you. Run along...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 02:31:35 PM

For a fact, I know a bunch of 4th graders in US public schools that can actually manage a coherent debate compared to you. Run along...


Interesting that you chose to deflect my question.


Well,just to inform you,as someone who has never invaded another country or killed,maimed.pillaged or raped, that means i have every right to question a leader ( Putin ) who has a history of sending troops in to do just that...and may be about to do the same again....whether you like my questioning him or not.


That doesn't make me a hypocrite...as i would be doing the same if it was British troops on the Ukraine border...plus i have no demons to prick my conscience.


But it isn't Brits it's Russian troops.....and it isn't the past ..it's in the here and now.


So you can sit there and rant at and mock the west all you like, the facts are it's Russian troops on the Ukraine border..not evil western powers.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 16, 2022, 03:22:47 PM

Did you conveniently left off the people of first nations in Canada? How about the children of the 'Residential Schools' (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/29/the-childrens-graves-at-residential-schools-in-canada-evoke-the-massacres-of-indigenous-australians)? These aren't exactly 'the past', you know. Rather pretty current actually.


I didn't leave off first nations in Canada.  See my post. 


I did not refer to residential schools because residents and their survivors have been compensated.  I was involved in negotiating some of those settlements, a little more than a decade ago.  The number is over $50 billion currently.  Keep in mind, not all FN were in residential schools. 


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 16, 2022, 03:31:37 PM

I didn't leave off first nations in Canada.  See my post. 

*Compensated* What a nice, comforting word to some. Is that what it is all about to you? Compensation for those who survived? Must be a 'common' word in the Commonwealth. LMAO. Prince Andrew, I'm sure, is feeling so much better of himself lately. Compensation.

Quote
I did not refer to residential schools because residents and their survivors have been compensated.  I was involved in negotiating some of those settlements, a little more than a decade ago.  The number is over $50 billion currently.  Keep in mind, not all FN were in residential schools.

 :-X  No. (Un)fortunately, not anymore. Not amongst us anymore either.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 16, 2022, 03:34:18 PM
Touch a nerve? That's your reply?  >:D



LMAO! You must be kidding me/us? Holy Molly! Let me help you out as 'thinking' is obviously not your suit. Place the mouse cursor to the 'flag' underneath that gorgeous mug below my handle. A country's name will appear. Let me know if you need help with that, too.


Stars and Stripes. Home of the Brave. U-S-A! Ring a bell? Yes/No?



I'm well aware of the flags beneath posters handles..but not everyone bothers to change their flag when they move to another country....i don't when i live abroad for a period.


I've looked at all your posts on this thread....and not once have you questioned Putin or Russia about the build-up of military forces on Ukraine's border...not once.


All you do is castigate the USA/UK/NATO as if's it's us who have troops on Ukraine's border.


I wonder why ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 16, 2022, 04:32:22 PM
I'm no fan of Cameron,but in fairness to him Libya attacked us first..with Lockerbie.


Libya and Gaddafi brought it upon themselves.
I don't blame countries like Libya that have little choice but to resort to 'terrorism'.  They will be massacred militarily, so they do what they have to do to still put up a fight.    They lost a lot of people/military prior to this Lockerbie incident, so they probably feel justified in doing SOMETHING to retaliate.    Western nations like the US and United Kingdom have been able to create a tough business environment for many nations and have been willing to use our military to enforce it.    By taking it to that level, it makes everybody a target. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 16, 2022, 06:34:48 PM
I've never invaded another country . . .

What about your WMVM or WOVO incursions ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 16, 2022, 06:37:07 PM
*Compensated* What a nice, comforting word to some. Is that what it is all about to you? Compensation for those who survived? Must be a 'common' word in the Commonwealth. LMAO. Prince Andrew, I'm sure, is feeling so much better of himself lately. Compensation.

 :-X  No. (Un)fortunately, not anymore. Not amongst us anymore either.


Unlike the US, Canada entered into treaties with all its First Nations.  That's what all the court cases are about - the terms and conditions of those treaties. So, based on the treaties, it is, in fact, compensation that is relevant.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 16, 2022, 08:43:31 PM


Looks like they are massing for a major attack. Invasion likely very imminent!
 
I've read this before, and before, and before!    Looks like the 3am attack yesterday didn't happen.

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 16, 2022, 09:10:02 PM
Blinky reckons even more units being moved to the Ukrainian Front rather than away:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10519563/Secretary-State-Blinken-says-Putin-moving-critical-units-Ukrainian-border.html

Looks like they are massing for a major attack. Invasion likely very imminent!

Apparently the troops that were moved were moved back to their hone base that is even nearer the Ukraine border than where they were. In the mean time Russia has moved up even more troops. Really does look like they are getting to the climax, their moving troops right up to Ukraine's border now.

Just for you Trenchy

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 16, 2022, 11:08:30 PM
Just for you Trenchy
Don’t give him any ideas.  :naughty:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 16, 2022, 11:16:23 PM
I don't blame countries like Libya that have little choice but to resort to 'terrorism'.  They will be massacred militarily, so they do what they have to do to still put up a fight.    They lost a lot of people/military prior to this Lockerbie incident, so they probably feel justified in doing SOMETHING to retaliate.    Western nations like the US and United Kingdom have been able to create a tough business environment for many nations and have been willing to use our military to enforce it.    By taking it to that level, it makes everybody a target. 

Fathertime!

Seriously!!!
You’re condoning murder?
What next?
Will you also condone the mowing down of bystanders in Nice using a 19 ton truck by Islamic terrorists or what happened at Bataclan?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 17, 2022, 03:22:17 AM
The Ukrainian President has tweeted today;


"I appreciate the support of Great Britain and grateful to Boris Johnson for the unity with Ukraine ! This is very important for us,especially now ! Let's join forces to preserve peace . "


He has also thanked Lithuania in another tweet.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 17, 2022, 07:11:28 AM

Unlike the US, Canada entered into treaties with all its First Nations.  That's what all the court cases are about - the terms and conditions of those treaties. So, based on the treaties, it is, in fact, compensation that is relevant.

There you go again. I’ve no idea how or why you make these broad statement that is simply shockingly false. You watch Rachel Maddow too much.

There are nearly 400 treaties made between the US government and it’s indigenous Native American tribes. Of which, IIRC, over 20 were broken inside of the year it was reconciled. Since you rely on Google too much, feel free to fact check my statement.

As for Canada, if you’re referring to the enactment/formation of TRC, crimes and racism in Canada still prevalently remains today. I can provide you mountains of proof of that statement if you like. Canada, like the US, is nothing more than a testament of what a horde of European white trash can do when given an opportunity to govern a territory. That is a fact, and a historical legacy of European strain.

To actually feel good claiming any monetary compensation is relevant as some form of reconciliatory tool in exchange for its evil deeds, is even more sinful and evil in itself. Share that reasoning to the survivors of the holocaust.

Canada even have an acronym for one of its genocidal acts, MMIWG. I’m certain you’re very familiar with that.

There’s no greater evil than absolute transgressions against the innocence of children.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 17, 2022, 07:13:43 AM
Seriously!!!
You’re condoning murder?
What next?
Will you also condone the mowing down of bystanders in Nice using a 19 ton truck by Islamic terrorists or what happened at Bataclan?

Oh, quit being so dramatic and face reality.  Smaller nations with inferior technology may decide to use whatever means necessary to try to keep larger interlopers from trying to push them around.  Terrorism is all they have at times. 
Nothing much in the world is 'fair'.   A Hyena verses a lion.  The lion always wins.   Pack of hyena verses lion, hyenas may win.  Especially since they fight 'dirty' and come from behind to tear off Lion's balls while he is occupied with another of the hyenas. 

If YOU are condoning suppression of a nation, then you have to bear the consequences.   Why would you expect a smaller nation to just accept their fate without doing everything in their power to fight back.   The US kills women/children all the time, but it is deemed a mistake and is largely ignored. 

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 17, 2022, 09:39:35 AM
Now that the February 16 Russian invasion of Ukraine had come and gone, crickets can be heard along the eastern border, reports US VP Kamala Harris. She laid witness to lines upon endless lines of grandmothers with flowers in their hands as the celebration of the coming spring and togetherness of one nation, one people festival. In between the festivities, multi-tasking US VP Kamala Harris had to excused herself to check if any emails arrived in her computer. One actually did. An email from Maria Zakharova, it said:


Privet durochka Harris,

With your assistance, I will call on all your media outlet to publish a full list of dates on which Russia will invade Ukraine for the year ahead, so Russian diplomats can schedule their vacations accordingly.

Spasiba.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 17, 2022, 10:26:33 AM
Just for you Trenchy

That's a good one Jumper, would love to adopt a Ukrainian babe ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 17, 2022, 11:55:22 AM


What Happens to Us if There Is War?


http://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/opinion/russia-ukraine-war.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/opinion/russia-ukraine-war.html)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 17, 2022, 11:58:35 AM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/aria_c18844720220215120100.jpg)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 17, 2022, 12:38:20 PM
I've read this before, and before, and before!    Looks like the 3am attack yesterday didn't happen.

Fathertime!

It could happen tonight, it could happen any time in the next few days.

I didn't think it was likely to happen last night as that time was out so it took away any element of surprise. That and Putin would probably want to manoeuvre to an excuse for war particularly after he said he didn't want it to the German Chancellor. Theoretically he doesn't necessarily need an excuse, he could just say he's decided to take Ukrainian lands as he believes them Russian territory going back to Katherine the Great. Odds are though he'll probably source out one flimsy excuse.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-russia-ukraine-invasion-joe-26259442.amp

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-of-russian-troops-within-30-miles-of-ukraine-ready-to-invade-b983021.html

Bisen now thinks a war is inevitable. UK gov sources are now saying war is imminent if not inevitable. Apparently Russia has moved up troops to within 30 miles of Ukraine's border in recent hours. My guess is that they are going to make a dash for Kyiv, missiles aimed at any Ukrainian troops in the way then take up occupying land around Ukraine. They'll likely stay out the cities apart from possibly central Kyiv, cut off the rail & road routes and starve Ukrainians into submission. Ukraine's army in the east will probably be hammered by missiles into oblivion.

I personally think Putin is up for it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 17, 2022, 03:01:30 PM
And why would it be inevitable?

Not one person on either side actually believes the dire *grievances * of either make war an inevitable.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 17, 2022, 03:51:35 PM
It could happen tonight, it could happen any time in the next few days.

I didn't think it was likely to happen last night as that time was out so it took away any element of surprise. That and Putin would probably want to manoeuvre to an excuse for war particularly after he said he didn't want it to the German Chancellor. Theoretically he doesn't necessarily need an excuse, he could just say he's decided to take Ukrainian lands as he believes them Russian territory going back to Katherine the Great. Odds are though he'll probably source out one flimsy excuse.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-russia-ukraine-invasion-joe-26259442.amp (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-russia-ukraine-invasion-joe-26259442.amp)

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-of-russian-troops-within-30-miles-of-ukraine-ready-to-invade-b983021.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-of-russian-troops-within-30-miles-of-ukraine-ready-to-invade-b983021.html)

Bisen now thinks a war is inevitable. UK gov sources are now saying war is imminent if not inevitable. Apparently Russia has moved up troops to within 30 miles of Ukraine's border in recent hours. My guess is that they are going to make a dash for Kyiv, missiles aimed at any Ukrainian troops in the way then take up occupying land around Ukraine. They'll likely stay out the cities apart from possibly central Kyiv, cut off the rail & road routes and starve Ukrainians into submission. Ukraine's army in the east will probably be hammered by missiles into oblivion.

I personally think Putin is up for it.


Putin might be up for it ...but his military might could soon be in deep trouble if he sends then in. ;D


Around a dozen Russian main battle tanks were filmed stuck in deep mud near the Ukrainian border in the Rostov region on 10th Feb and it took a civilian using an excavator to rescue them. ;D


Potential sitting ducks for those 2000 anti-tank missiles the Brits gave to the Ukrainians  :clapping:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 17, 2022, 03:53:56 PM

Bisen now thinks a war is inevitable.


I personally think Putin is up for it.

Bisen isn't a warrior and I believe he has ulterior motives. 

It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is no iron in his words of death for all Russia to see and so there is iron in his words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Putin carries the same iron of life and death. 

(http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/186/Graph/TenBears.jpg)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 17, 2022, 03:55:30 PM
And why would it be inevitable?

Not one person on either side actually believes the dire *grievances * of either make war an inevitable.

Because Putin isn't going to go to all the trouble of assembling such a force and put it into invasion position just for the joy of it. There's no sense to that, it's a waste without any gain.

In addition Putin has made out he was withdrawing forces when in fact he was doing the opposite. Why do that as a negotiating tactic? It has no sense to it, it would only breed distrust during any negotiation. It makes perfect sense if trying to cover for more troops to come in. He was found out and has been found out concocting false flag excuses for an invasion. He'll make inroads with something and when he will attack. I don't think he'll really care how flimsy something is as an excuse it could be drawn up on the back of a fag packet. He may not even bother that much with an excuse beyond his demands have not been satisfied and hence to protect Russia he needs to take back Ukraine.

I think most see now that his preparations are within their last few moments of readiness. The next stage is the order for the invasion, that is likely to come any day (or most likely night) now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 17, 2022, 04:00:59 PM

Putin might be up for it ...but his military might could soon be in deep trouble if he sends then in. ;D


Around a dozen Russian main battle tanks were filmed stuck in deep mud near the Ukrainian border in the Rostov region on 10th Feb and it took a civilian using an excavator to rescue them. ;D


Potential sitting ducks for those 2000 anti-tank missiles the Brits gave to the Ukrainians  :clapping:

All depends whether the ground has hardened since then by frost, etc.

Ukrainians best chance is probably to take the fight to the Russians, close in quick so they are too close for the Russians to use their missiles. Still the odds I doubt are good, even if they smash most of the Russian force Putin will probably bring in reinforcements. If Ukrainians attack first then they will give Putin the excuse he needs and a valid one at that.

Odds are Ukrainians will just have to endure whatever happens. If they can get a victory as you suggest CB then that would be a good one for Ukraine.

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-crisis-world-leaders-fear-russia-is-creating-an-excuse-to-invade-ukraine-after-rise-in-attacks-across-disputed-donbas-regions-line-of-contact-12544212
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 17, 2022, 04:18:31 PM
All depends whether the ground has hardened since then by frost, etc.



It hasn't..it's thawing...ripe for a slaughter of Russian tanks and troops stuck in deep mud. :clapping:


As for Russian reinforcements well if he's already lost the 60% of his troops he has on Ukraine's border i'm not sure how wise it would be to send the remaining 40% in..it would leave his military in a right old pickle..





As the BBC news crew were driving back from the Ukrainian border to Kiev today you can see where all the snow is thawing in the fields either side of the road...it'll be a quagmire ;D


Air power would be Russia's big advantage...so let's hope the Ukrainians have learnt how to use those SAM's Lithuania supplied them with well.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 17, 2022, 04:32:39 PM
There you go again. I’ve no idea how or why you make these broad statement that is simply shockingly false. You watch Rachel Maddow too much.

There are nearly 400 treaties made between the US government and it’s indigenous Native American tribes. Of which, IIRC, over 20 were broken inside of the year it was reconciled. Since you rely on Google too much, feel free to fact check my statement.

As for Canada, if you’re referring to the enactment/formation of TRC, crimes and racism in Canada still prevalently remains today. I can provide you mountains of proof of that statement if you like. Canada, like the US, is nothing more than a testament of what a horde of European white trash can do when given an opportunity to govern a territory. That is a fact, and a historical legacy of European strain.

To actually feel good claiming any monetary compensation is relevant as some form of reconciliatory tool in exchange for its evil deeds, is even more sinful and evil in itself. Share that reasoning to the survivors of the holocaust.

Canada even have an acronym for one of its genocidal acts, MMIWG. I’m certain you’re very familiar with that.

There’s no greater evil than absolute transgressions against the innocence of children.


Your country didn't enter into treaties with all bands.  Canada did, even though some of those treaties remain unfulfilled, and that is a travesty.  But that's not the point.  The point is, are you willing to fund all of these things?  Heck, why not make every person move back to the country of their ancestors, and let every nation sort things out.  No mixing of the artificial concept of "race".  No mixing even of the artificial concept of "ethnicity".


As for residential schools, yes, overall, they were horrid, as was the reason they were originally established.  But schools for non FN were no picnic at that time either.   In all, 150,000 children attended residential schools - not a huge number, given the total FN population.  I'm not dismissing it, and whether the school was bad or not depended very much on who was operating it.  I know FN individuals who don't have negative memories of residential schools.  But, most of them were close to "home".


No matter how much you google this, your knowledge will always be at best, superficial.  I have sat with elders.  I have worked with survivors.   I did a significant amount of FN work in the early to mid 2000's. The federal government still pays lip service to reconciliation, but all the real gains, other than treaty negotiations, have been made through court action.  Nevertheless, most survivors, and their descendants have stepped past this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 17, 2022, 05:16:09 PM
Your country didn't enter into treaties with all bands.  Canada did, even though some of those treaties remain unfulfilled, and that is a travesty.  But that's not the point.  The point is, are you willing to fund all of these things?  Heck, why not make every person move back to the country of their ancestors, and let every nation sort things out.  No mixing of the artificial concept of "race".  No mixing even of the artificial concept of "ethnicity".


A croc, if not such a pointless statement. You made the allegations the US, unlike Canada, didn't have a treaty with its native Americans.

Quote
As for residential schools, yes, overall, they were horrid, as was the reason they were originally established.  But schools for non FN were no picnic at that time either.   In all, 150,000 children attended residential schools - not a huge number, given the total FN population.  I'm not dismissing it, and whether the school was bad or not depended very much on who was operating it.  I know FN individuals who don't have negative memories of residential schools.  But, most of them were close to "home".


BS! That policy began in the 1930s, ran nearly the rest of the century. Many of the children were kidnapped, taken without notice from their homes. Forced assimilation was the tip of the iceberg many of these kids faced. Being placed in these schools, and everything that happened after was evil. Many are still being recovered from mass graves.

Quote
No matter how much you google this, your knowledge will always be at best, superficial.  I have sat with elders.  I have worked with survivors.   I did a significant amount of FN work in the early to mid 2000's. The federal government still pays lip service to reconciliation, but all the real gains, other than treaty negotiations, have been made through court action.  Nevertheless, most survivors, and their descendants have stepped past this.

Funny. Steele Dossier / Russiagate and you deny you rely on Google. *Stepped past it* was a very predictable response considering, according to you, they already got paid monies.


 ::)  Imagine that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 17, 2022, 07:41:26 PM

It hasn't..it's thawing...ripe for a slaughter of Russian tanks and troops stuck in deep mud. :clapping:


As for Russian reinforcements well if he's already lost the 60% of his troops he has on Ukraine's border i'm not sure how wise it would be to send the remaining 40% in..it would leave his military in a right old pickle..





As the BBC news crew were driving back from the Ukrainian border to Kiev today you can see where all the snow is thawing in the fields either side of the road...it'll be a quagmire ;D


Air power would be Russia's big advantage...so let's hope the Ukrainians have learnt how to use those SAM's Lithuania supplied them with well.

You seem* with the hand clapping  to want a war ,and glee at the thought of Ukrainians killing Russians.
Its odd.

I dont think  that's how any of that would go down, *if they choose a full.scale invasion in modern warfare.
The slaughter would be Ukrainian troops.

Sam's are fundamentally useless in the big picture

Russian air superiority is in no way challenged in both taking out communications or key targets for troop support by those Sam's.
You think in any of the major engagement the USA/uk forces have been in the last several.decades the countries dint have equally advanced ground to air systems for defense? How'd that work out?.

The Ukrainian airforce would be grounded or if they choose to fight , shot down within an hour of altercations.

The tanks arnt going to be bothered by the weather. Who is going to stop them.on the roads?
They wont roll in until.they need to clean up and until.its safe*
They arnt used that way unless the air cover is complete.why?, the average lifespan of a tank crew after active combat agaisnt a true full force(air/sea) military?
It's minutes.
Good thing  for Putin Ukraine wont have that typical major power abilty.

This seems a day dream.of  yours of prepared Ukrainians in guerilla war and competent military with full airforce etc.
It's not reality of a true modern full invasion occurs(which is doubtful)
It's a major nation with a huge advantage in air superiority, naval superiority , and shear military might  facing a small border countries forces, and once run over them.a general populace of mixed Russian/Ukrainian.
Most of the cough* Russian lead in troops will be likely be paid Chechnyans , (as it was stirring shit in donbass right?) the mix of families  Ukrainian to Russian is too great.

I spoke with my wifes cousin there, he said war? Who will we be fighting?ourselves? Or coworkers from.a couple years back? Or cousins that live in western Russia?
Noone wants that here.
Maybe we would fight chechycen mercenaries, but who knows?
He wasnt the least bit worried about any of it and hadnt heard that much about it.

Granted that might be different in western  Ukraine, but it would not matter.


I know I'm absolutely not rooting for war, and I know if there is a full scale one there it will absolutely be Ukrainian blood that will be the majority spilt.

Flippin muddy fields wont change squat about that. This isn't 1940.

Ask those along the northern route out of Kuwait a few decades back , about how this really  plays out in modern warfare in  anything but a video game.
Its over fundamentally in an hour.5 hrs at a stretch. No ground troops needed (other than occupying force later)

Im.sure you  have no military background, and that's fine,but don't wish for conflict on some daydream.of Ukrainian troops slaughtering Russian troops, it's insane  to think that would happen. 

Again I dint think Russia will invade,  if they do ,it might be skirmishes in donbass for effect.
If they choose to actually take ukraine. Then they will.period.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 17, 2022, 11:26:53 PM
But, but, but, they did it too..........





Fathertime!

You’re beginning to sound like Moby now.

There is NO justification for murder.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 18, 2022, 03:37:24 AM
"Moscow has said it could be "forced" to respond militarily if the US does not agree to its security demands"

Here it looks like our reason for Invasion is coming from Russia, similar to what I was saying they might do last night. Apparently Putin is going to oversee Russia's military exercises on the 19th. Whether that will mean war then or soon after who knows. Olympic closing ceremony is on the 20th. That Putin has carried on with these 'military exercises' through the Olympics when he could have chosen another time without Russia carrying on in the background makes me think even more that he is serious about invasion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60428211
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 18, 2022, 04:37:36 AM
You seem* with the hand clapping  to want a war ,and glee at the thought of Ukrainians killing Russians.
Its odd.

I dont think  that's how any of that would go down, *if they choose a full.scale invasion in modern warfare.
The slaughter would be Ukrainian troops.

Sam's are fundamentally useless in the big picture

Russian air superiority is in no way challenged in both taking out communications or key targets for troop support by those Sam's.
You think in any of the major engagement the USA/uk forces have been in the last several.decades the countries dint have equally advanced ground to air systems for defense? How'd that work out?.

The Ukrainian airforce would be grounded or if they choose to fight , shot down within an hour of altercations.

The tanks arnt going to be bothered by the weather. Who is going to stop them.on the roads?
They wont roll in until.they need to clean up and until.its safe*
They arnt used that way unless the air cover is complete.why?, the average lifespan of a tank crew after active combat agaisnt a true full force(air/sea) military?
It's minutes.
Good thing  for Putin Ukraine wont have that typical major power abilty.

This seems a day dream.of  yours of prepared Ukrainians in guerilla war and competent military with full airforce etc.
It's not reality of a true modern full invasion occurs(which is doubtful)
It's a major nation with a huge advantage in air superiority, naval superiority , and shear military might  facing a small border countries forces, and once run over them.a general populace of mixed Russian/Ukrainian.
Most of the cough* Russian lead in troops will be likely be paid Chechnyans , (as it was stirring shit in donbass right?) the mix of families  Ukrainian to Russian is too great.

I spoke with my wifes cousin there, he said war? Who will we be fighting?ourselves? Or coworkers from.a couple years back? Or cousins that live in western Russia?
Noone wants that here.
Maybe we would fight chechycen mercenaries, but who knows?
He wasnt the least bit worried about any of it and hadnt heard that much about it.

Granted that might be different in western  Ukraine, but it would not matter.


I know I'm absolutely not rooting for war, and I know if there is a full scale one there it will absolutely be Ukrainian blood that will be the majority spilt.

Flippin muddy fields wont change squat about that. This isn't 1940.

Ask those along the northern route out of Kuwait a few decades back , about how this really  plays out in modern warfare in  anything but a video game.
Its over fundamentally in an hour.5 hrs at a stretch. No ground troops needed (other than occupying force later)

Im.sure you  have no military background, and that's fine,but don't wish for conflict on some daydream.of Ukrainian troops slaughtering Russian troops, it's insane  to think that would happen. 

Again I dint think Russia will invade,  if they do ,it might be skirmishes in donbass for effect.
If they choose to actually take ukraine. Then they will.period.


I hope you're correct that Russia won't invade,and you may well be right...we'll see.




However,if they do,i see nothing odd about wanting Ukraine  to defeat the invaders.


That would require killing invading Russian military personnel yes ?


Or do you think if the Ukrainians stand there singing songs the Russians will turn round and go home ?


There is a misconception among many people,including you,that Ukraine has no possible chance against the mighty Russia..who couldn't even beat poorly armed fighters wearing sandals after nine years of trying ...somewhat later than 1940. :rolleyes:


"The small border country "Ukraine actually has the largest army in Europe...with 215,000 military personnel and they've been training for this for eight years with training provided by NATO.


As Ukraine has no Navy to speak of and a small Air Force i wonder what the largest Army in Europe has been training for ?


As for the SAM's you deride...well the Ukraine Air Force has lost many fighter-jets and Helicopters over Donbas....so many shot down by SAM's,that the Ukrainian President had to pull them out of the conflict there.


Additionally one third of a population of 40 million volunteered to train in guerilla warfare....that's a lot of people.






These are a people who've had to endure 14.000 people being killed in Donbas over the last eight years because of Russian-backed separatists, and saw Russia take Crimea from them.


A huge seller out there has been toilet paper with a picture of Putin on it.


You think they're going to roll-over to him ?


These are not Iraq troops who had no heart for a fight and just surrendered.


If Russia invades they may well take Ukraine..let's see if they can hold it.


If they don't hold Ukraine that will mean they've been defeated..just like they were in Afghanistan.


By the way i do have a military background..i was in the Fleet Air Arm with F-4's based at RAF Leuchars.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 18, 2022, 04:51:53 AM
"Moscow has said it could be "forced" to respond militarily if the US does not agree to its security demands"

Here it looks like our reason for Invasion is coming from Russia, similar to what I was saying they might do last night. Apparently Putin is going to oversee Russia's military exercises on the 19th. Whether that will mean war then or soon after who knows. Olympic closing ceremony is on the 20th. That Putin has carried on with these 'military exercises' through the Olympics when he could have chosen another time without Russia carrying on in the background makes me think even more that he is serious about invasion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60428211 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60428211)


The Russian Ambassador to the EU  Vladimir Chizhov said a couple of days ago that the Belarus exercises will end on the 20th February and the Russian military forces in Belarus will return to their bases on, or shortly after, that date.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 18, 2022, 04:58:33 AM

It hasn't..it's thawing...ripe for a slaughter of Russian tanks and troops stuck in deep mud. :clapping:

...if russia was actually planning on invading...they would have already done it months ago with the element of surprise on their side.  They wouldn't wait until the situation became more difficult.     I don't believe Russia can afford to get involved in a military quagmire with little upside.  While this non-story continues to create headlines, I wonder what other stories are being largely ignored.  Nord Stream 2 seems to be moving along, China's belt and road is relentlessly moving forward.... all the while what great project are we in the US undertaking?

Fathertime! 


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 18, 2022, 05:20:47 AM
...if russia was actually planning on invading...they would have already done it months ago with the element of surprise on their side.  They wouldn't wait until the situation became more difficult.     I don't believe Russia can afford to get involved in a military quagmire with little upside.  While this non-story continues to create headlines, I wonder what other stories are being largely ignored.  Nord Stream 2 seems to be moving along, China's belt and road is relentlessly moving forward.... all the while what great project are we in the US undertaking?

Fathertime!


I agree with you..there is no logic in waiting until the country you plan to invade has been bringing in more arms to defend itself with.


Putin is many things but he isn't a fool.


The reason Putin took Crimea so easily is because he used the element of surprise.and moved quickly.


Why change what works ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 18, 2022, 07:26:41 AM

I hope you're correct that Russia won't invade,and you may well be right...we'll see.




However,if they do,i see nothing odd about wanting Ukraine  to defeat the invaders.


That would require killing invading Russian military personnel yes ?


Or do you think if the Ukrainians stand there singing songs the Russians will turn round and go home ?


There is a misconception among many people,including you,that Ukraine has no possible chance against the mighty Russia..who couldn't even beat poorly armed fighters wearing sandals after nine years of trying ...somewhat later than 1940. :rolleyes:


"The small border country "Ukraine actually has the largest army in Europe...with 215,000 military personnel and they've been training for this for eight years with training provided by NATO.


As Ukraine has no Navy to speak of and a small Air Force i wonder what the largest Army in Europe has been training for ?


As for the SAM's you deride...well the Ukraine Air Force has lost many fighter-jets and Helicopters over Donbas....so many shot down by SAM's,that the Ukrainian President had to pull them out of the conflict there.


Additionally one third of a population of 40 million volunteered to train in guerilla warfare....that's a lot of people.






These are a people who've had to endure 14.000 people being killed in Donbas over the last eight years because of Russian-backed separatists, and saw Russia take Crimea from them.


A huge seller out there has been toilet paper with a picture of Putin on it.


You think they're going to roll-over to him ?


These are not Iraq troops who had no heart for a fight and just surrendered.


If Russia invades they may well take Ukraine..let's see if they can hold it.


If they don't hold Ukraine that will mean they've been defeated..just like they were in Afghanistan.


By the way i do have a military background..i was in the Fleet Air Arm with F-4's based at RAF Leuchars.

Iraqi forces were the.4th largest in the world had  actively fought Iran for a decade were better prepared,and  far better equipped.

I'm not condoning invasion, I'm not hoping for one,  nor am I saying Ukraine hasn't prepared for this.

I am saying  oring thaw weather ,muddy fields would not  play a huge part ,and I am.saying with no equivalent air force they stand zero chance against a full.scale invasion (if one occured)
Yes Ukrainian air force lost to surface to air in what wasnot an all out war,let that sink in. Has any other major military's air been defeated by Sam's? No. Snd those are not going to stop russias air force from.taking out communications and strategic targets.

Now the aspect of occupying a country  long term is completely different , and that is completely dependent on the ,resolve, sufferage, or apathy of the people governed, as has been proven throughout history.

As far as Ukraine its been overrun and held long term  by a long list of invaders.
Do I think.if the populace entirely rejected russian governance  , they could oust them long term? Certainly.
But I'm not sure that's a realistic view of the population
This is a different scenario ,there are separatist ,it's not entirely unified ,its fundamentally the same people with many families and friends across borders.
There are of course a million factors,but the fact remains the Ukrainian government that the people have accepted over the last decades was always tied to the hip to Russia.This does play into it a lot.

I absolutely feel.ukraine should be
 Independent. I have relatives there.






Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 18, 2022, 08:39:58 AM
A loud siren going off in Donetsk today,with a Russian-backed separatist leader telling residents to evacuate and go to Russia via buses.


Another Russian-backed separatist leader has told residents to evacuate Luhansk also.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 18, 2022, 11:52:52 AM
A loud siren going off in Donetsk today,with a Russian-backed separatist leader telling residents to evacuate and go to Russia via buses.


Another Russian-backed separatist leader has told residents to evacuate Luhansk also.

Then that sounds like something very big is about to go down CB. Looks like we are definitely on the very brink of invasion of Ukraine to me. Odds are Putin as an ex-KGB guy is taking up the C-in-C for it rather than merely just leading the military training - there is no real need for him to lead the overall training which I any case is just a bs excuse to assemble their invasion force under it seems. Doubt it will be long till we see it all go down in Ukraine by the sounds of it.

Next 24-48 hours or so crucial I would say.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 18, 2022, 02:00:18 PM
Bisen isn't a warrior and I believe he has ulterior motives. 



Yep. The cohesion of democratic countries. 8)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 18, 2022, 02:38:58 PM
...if russia was actually planning on invading...they would have already done it months ago with the element of surprise on their side.  They wouldn't wait until the situation became more difficult.     I don't believe Russia can afford to get involved in a military quagmire with little upside.  While this non-story continues to create headlines, I wonder what other stories are being largely ignored.  Nord Stream 2 seems to be moving along, China's belt and road is relentlessly moving forward.... all the while what great project are we in the US undertaking?

Fathertime!


Remember Anzincourt? How a superior army got its ass whipped by lesser forces? Almost same conditions months ago.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 18, 2022, 03:05:57 PM
Biden just said he believes Putin has decided to invade Ukraine...and will do so in the next few days.


OSCE says the number of Russian troops surrounding Ukraine is now between 170,000 and 190,000...the biggest build up of troops in Europe since the second World War.


Of course if Russia does invade it will show the World what liars Putin and the Russians are,as they've been saying they're not going to invade Ukraine .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 18, 2022, 04:16:55 PM
Biden just said he believes Putin has decided to invade Ukraine...and will do so in the next few days.


OSCE says the number of Russian troops surrounding Ukraine is now between 170,000 and 190,000...the biggest build up of troops in Europe since the second World War.


Of course if Russia does invade it will show the World what liars Putin and the Russians are,as they've been saying they're not going to invade Ukraine .
My count has always been 12 divisions (180000 men) since mid january.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 18, 2022, 04:34:16 PM

Remember Anzincourt? How a superior army got its ass whipped by lesser forces? Almost same conditions months ago.

You mean Azincourt in French spelling or Agincourt in English spelling ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 18, 2022, 04:46:24 PM
Haha.  Got you to go low by merely challenging you! You like fellow submissive I reckon.    Poor guy. 
Fathertime!
Pah. There’s no taking the moral high ground when you side with murderers and terrorists, fella.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 19, 2022, 05:48:35 AM
You mean Azincourt in French spelling or Agincourt in English spelling ?
lol, yep Azincourt
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 19, 2022, 08:20:12 AM
Can someone explain to me why Ukraine would launch an offensive against Donetsk and Luhansk now and why they would be firing missiles into Rostov ?


We also have the ludicrous claim that Ukraine planted a car bomb under the Donetsk pro-Russian separatist leaders car,which conveniently exploded while he wasn't in it  :rolleyes:



All this while they have 190,000 Russian troops on their border and the Russian Navy off their coastline.


Well you would wouldn't you  :rolleyes:


Maybe the poster who says whatever the West says is propaganda can explain the Ukraine reasons for doing this.?


To me it just seems mad Vlad and the pro-Russian separatists are creating false flags around the Donbas region,whilst citing genocide there, to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine...as i predicted they would.


Of course Russia never comes out with lying propaganda do they ? :cluebat:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 19, 2022, 10:26:05 AM
Can someone explain to me why Ukraine would launch an offensive against Donetsk and Luhansk now and why they would be firing missiles into Rostov ?
Of course Russia never comes out with lying propaganda do they ?

Quite simple.  Just ask a Russian or Russian lover.
Ukraine is actively attacking Russia on many fronts.
Their reason for doing so is to provoke Russian counterattacks which will bring USA to the Ukrainian rescue. 
Doesn't matter that USA has said it will not intervene militarily.

Get up to date here and think with a clear head !!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 19, 2022, 10:35:02 AM
Of course Russia never comes out with lying propaganda do they ?

And they never cheat or do anything dishonorable either.
Just ask any of their Summer and Winter Olympic teams.

But they do have a very distinct advantage in that they do not care how anyone thinks about them.

Unlike the crybabies during Donald's time who wailed . . . Oh my, the rest of the world is thinking bad about USA !!  :-(

Imagine the audacity of asking the Europeans to pay their agreed upon amounts into NATO.  Totally rude and unacceptable.  Better to let USA taxpayers take up the slack, so that we will be liked (actually hated less).
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 19, 2022, 12:55:32 PM
You mean Azincourt in French spelling or Agincourt in English spelling ?

Comme ci, comme ça
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 19, 2022, 03:11:09 PM
It seems that Zelensky wants answers.  I would suspect that NATO isn't really interested in having Ukraine as a part of their commitment. 
Zelensky is also demanding that the US say exactly what the sanctions will be for Russia should they invade.   I wonder if Zelensky is speaking from his own mouth, or the US has asked him to make the statements.   


Zelensky: Ukraine wants 'clear' time frame for NATO membership

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday asked NATO and the European Union (EU) for a firm and "honest" answer on his country's prospects for entry into the alliance at the Munich Security Conference.....
 http://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ukraine-wants-clear-timeframe-162724254.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   (http://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ukraine-wants-clear-timeframe-162724254.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on February 19, 2022, 04:03:58 PM
Photo Essay:  (no big words to gaagle)

http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2022/02/photos-ukraine-soldiers-and-civilians-prepare-possible-invasion/622841/

Link posted to avoid copyright issues and pictures too large for this websites format.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 19, 2022, 04:26:46 PM
It seems that Zelensky wants answers.  I would suspect that NATO isn't really interested in having Ukraine as a part of their commitment. 
Zelensky is also demanding that the US say exactly what the sanctions will be for Russia should they invade.   I wonder if Zelensky is speaking from his own mouth, or the US has asked him to make the statements.   


Zelensky: Ukraine wants 'clear' time frame for NATO membership

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday asked NATO and the European Union (EU) for a firm and "honest" answer on his country's prospects for entry into the alliance at the Munich Security Conference.....
 http://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ukraine-wants-clear-timeframe-162724254.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   (http://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ukraine-wants-clear-timeframe-162724254.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)

Fathertime!

We've given them tank busting equipment that looks like it's really just soil pipes with a fancy end on, lets hope for their sake it's not! The Germans have given them Nazi style helmets to re-enact some great WWII battles with, what more could they possibly want???

Well I think the joining the EU prospect has now gone, a definite non-starter. EU Members won't want an entanglement issue quite so close to their doorstep. The EU doesn't have the money to take them onboard with the UK leaving and then the virus. There's no way the EU is going to take on Ukraine with all its issues. Only possible way would be for the EU to totally rethink it's economic model, basically to just have a free trade zone and stop trying to pass money from here to there, to basically stop requiring countries to be and get up to a certain level of economic development. I think the only reason Zelensky is wanting into the EU is first to get some military protection since a war one is deemed a war on all and secondly to help out the sh*t state Ukraine's economy must now be getting into - think cost of conflict, virus impact and now blockaded ports and no flights.

I personally don't think EU member states will want a member that will embroil them all in war. A definite no go on that one.

NATO well that might be an easier one for Zelensky to aim for but I think he is right in NATO members not wanting a a country that will immediately plunge them into a warm Remembering of course some of these members are in Eastern Europe so they'll be on the forefront of it all being hammered hard quite likely. It would of course bring objection from Russia and god knows how they would react, WWIII maybe?

I think Zelensky is basically losing it now, he's freaking out as  war is imminent and he knows it's not looking at all good and is without anyone to really help him out.

It really does look that Russia is starting to manoeuvre in Eastern Ukraine for a reason for war by stating that Ukraine is causing genocide by shelling people's homes so they basically had to step in, of course :-\

It looks like Russia has quickly moved up forces to bring the invasion force to 150,000 to 190,000 or more.

Basically Putin has never acted in a trustworthy way, dissenters being thrown out of windows, poisoned, jailed, executed, Russian athletes doping, intervention in Syria to prop up a vicious tyrant, etc, etc. I don't think Putin's intention fir Ukraine is to walk away, not this time, he's got it in to invade, he doesn't care about the west just what he wants to do so he'll invade for sure and I reckon we are very close to that now. A but more noise about the 'genocide' in the Donbas to sound like there is a significant problem there then he'll go in. Likely within a day or so I reckon, I just get the impression it's really, really close now!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 19, 2022, 04:40:04 PM
BBC News - Ukraine: Russia plans biggest war in Europe since 1945 - Boris Johnson
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60448162
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 19, 2022, 04:47:40 PM
Ukrainian President Zelensky speaks at Munich Security Conference, February 19, 2022

"Ukraine is longing for peace. Europe is longing for peace. The world is saying it doesn’t want any war, while Russia is claiming she doesn’t want to intervene. Someone here is lying," Zelensky said, before receiving a standing ovation.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 19, 2022, 05:25:46 PM

I personally don't think EU member states will want a member that will embroil them all in war. A definite no go on that one.



Kinda late for the Baltic states and Poland.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 19, 2022, 06:17:40 PM
   

I think Zelensky is basically losing it now, he's freaking out as  war is imminent and he knows it's not looking at all good and is without anyone to really help him out.

  I don't think Putin's intention fir Ukraine is to walk away, not this time, he's got it in to invade, he doesn't care about the west just what he wants to do so he'll invade for sure and I reckon we are very close to that now. A but more noise about the 'genocide' in the Donbas to sound like there is a significant problem there then he'll go in. Likely within a day or so I reckon, I just get the impression it's really, really close now!

Despite what Biden is saying publicly, I think the US would be good with Russia taking a little bite out of Ukraine....just so long as it leads to sanctions and termination of the Nord stream 2.   With all the 'imminent' rhetoric coming from the US, my belief is we are trying to bait Putin.  When he doesn't invade it will be spun that we stared Russia/Putin down.  That would be our false consolation instead of shutting down the pipeline.
Perhaps seeing the phoniness of the US, nations like Brazil are standing with Russia. 

Fathertime!   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 19, 2022, 06:20:54 PM
I feel incredibly bad for these Ukrainians. Joe Biden and his party NEED this war very badly. Both for military industry push and for their dying political state. A proxy war this magnitude, especially against the US's longtime boogeyman - Russia - will undoubtedly swing Americans attitude and sentiment this coming midterm election. Nothing like sacrificing Ukrainian blood, as far as the US is concerned, to boost ratings Biden/Harris desperately needs.

The US had now gone from 'we will not intervene and will direly sanction Russian if they attack - to "we will act swiftly and decisively if Russia attacked!". Now why exactly should 'we' be front and center in the silly conflict, is utterly beyond silly to me.


So next time you see a US serviceman, think twice before you thank them, make no mistake about this, they had become nothing more than just fucking paid mercenaries/murderers. They're not 'serving our nation', or 'protection our homeland'. Not thousands of miles from our border. They're being used as sacrificial pawns once again to advance our mindless political agendas.

Another thing I found mystifying in the Munich conference was, why the heck in the midst of all this, is Zelensky asking for 'significant economic assistance' from the US? WHAT-THE-FUCK-IS-THAT-ABOUT? What made the US a chief source of monies for Ukraine? Why the hell is the US automatically at the end of a carrot stick, and in a volatile time like this to boot?

Someone, maybe more than one, is getting played in a major way in this stupidity.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 19, 2022, 08:06:34 PM
Thank or dont thank whoever you want.

Not one has asked thanks.

Try to get a grip there, when someone joins any u.s. service, they are signing up to defend our country, or its interests abroad.
They have zero choice once in,so if an administration they joined under changes drastically, it's still their commander and chief .
It doesn't make them simply paid mercenaries just because u. s  foreign policy changes or sucks during their stint.
I think the usa makes horrid foreign policy choices..and should concentrate on issues internally
So i know and understand you'll have 486 justifications for that sentiment , , but
Flock  right off with that bs.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 19, 2022, 08:13:00 PM
As far as why money is brought up in regards to the* usa in Ukraine*, you really already know.
There is a standing pres (past vp) who had his son in a cushy job there with no skills, you had millions missing in various funds siphoned off and  passed thru one of the countries best at laundering money.
Russian collusion at its finest.
Ukraine is just another suicide,nothing ties up.old loose ends like a war


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 20, 2022, 03:32:06 AM

Kinda late for the Baltic states and Poland.

All are NATO countries also and have NATO troops stationed there. Putin won't invade those countries as they have a sitting NATO troop presence already there. The line has been drawn in the sand for those countries at their border. If Putin attacked them it would being in both NATO and the whole if the EU, essentially WWIII. That's a more difficult one for Putin as Britain, France & the US have nuclear weapons and NATO. & the EU much stronger military, so how would that play out for Putin? He doesn't know that even if he wins he wouldn't get nuked and lose, and at which point?

Putin will be familiar with the old Iron Curtain concept so I think he'll see a new Iron Curtain there. I think odds are he'll attack other weak countries like Georgia that are far easier to pick off and retake the Stans one way or another. For him that will be greater Russia back together again. The Eastern Bloc was always kind of an addition and previous to the Soviet Union not a part of Russia so I don't think he'll be too bothered about them.

Think also he'll have his work cut out stationing troops in those newly taken over countries and depending on how he goes about it keeping insurgencies and terrorism down so I don't think he'll have his hands free to worry about the former Eastern Bloc countries by that stage.

Winter Olympics end today so now just the wait and see. The end of the Olympics was thought by one Ukrainian General to be the likely moment, so tonight, tommorow night, who knows. Best scenario for us if they do invade is that any Puppet government that comes forward will have a degree of autonomy and not just be an extension of Russian government/territory. So Ukraine would be a bit like Belarus and with a bit of luck we'll still get the visa free situation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2022, 05:40:52 AM

Putin will be familiar with the old Iron Curtain concept so I think he'll see a new Iron Curtain there. I think odds are he'll attack other weak countries like Georgia that are far easier to pick off and retake the Stans one way or another. For him that will be greater Russia back together again. The Eastern Bloc was always kind of an addition and previous to the Soviet Union not a part of Russia so I don't think he'll be too bothered about them.
Another morning I wake up to no attack of Ukraine, the Stans, Georgia, etc....despite the US attempted agitation and involvement in a region we don't belong in.   I don't really think Russia needs to do any attacking.  If they stay their course, they are about to do well for themselves with their new pipeline. 

All that said, if they were facing sanctions, loss of pipeline, and financial war...well they may decide their best course is to go big and take all of Ukraine and it's resources.  Accept the consequences, align with their friend partners and write off the west.   As unjust as it is, the vast majority of Americans don't know/care about Ukraine, for most the nation is merely a pawn or a buzzword (If that) and the people in Ukraine would pay dearly for a little advancement on the chessboard.  People here for obvious reasons are far more attached to the situation, and rightfully so. 

When nations such as China/Russia start to make business headway in the world, the US is right there to try to thwart them.  With China we suddenly 'care' a great deal about ethnic minorities in their country.  My belief is this is all coming down the dollars/yuan/rubles.    We in the US haven't developed our own industries adequately and may no longer have the capacity to, so sticking sticks in the tires of other nations is our go to move recently.  Provoking conflict seems to be our preferred method of advancement....just so long as its other nations young people who are on the front line.   Meanwhile our young people are free to 'party', smoke dope, pose on instragram, and be tough guys in the rap culture! 

(http://image.freepik.com/free-photo/man-in-rapper-pose_1187-3375.jpg)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 20, 2022, 07:19:21 AM
Whilst i agree with a lot of your post...it's Russia who's doing all the provoking with all their miltary surrounding the Ukraine border.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Sailor291 on February 20, 2022, 08:21:59 AM
I feel incredibly bad for these Ukrainians. Joe Biden and his party NEED this war very badly. Both for military industry push and for their dying political state. A proxy war this magnitude, especially against the US's longtime boogeyman - Russia - will undoubtedly swing Americans attitude and sentiment this coming midterm election. Nothing like sacrificing Ukrainian blood, as far as the US is concerned, to boost ratings Biden/Harris desperately needs.

The US had now gone from 'we will not intervene and will direly sanction Russian if they attack - to "we will act swiftly and decisively if Russia attacked!". Now why exactly should 'we' be front and center in the silly conflict, is utterly beyond silly to me.


So next time you see a US serviceman, think twice before you thank them, make no mistake about this, they had become nothing more than just fucking paid mercenaries/murderers. They're not 'serving our nation', or 'protection our homeland'. Not thousands of miles from our border. They're being used as sacrificial pawns once again to advance our mindless political agendas.

Another thing I found mystifying in the Munich conference was, why the heck in the midst of all this, is Zelensky asking for 'significant economic assistance' from the US? WHAT-THE-FUCK-IS-THAT-ABOUT? What made the US a chief source of monies for Ukraine? Why the hell is the US automatically at the end of a carrot stick, and in a volatile time like this to boot?

Someone, maybe more than one, is getting played in a major way in this stupidity.

As someone that spent over 20 years proudly serving the United States Navy, I find your comments particularly ignorant and insulting.  I despise Sleepy Joe, but take great offense at you!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 20, 2022, 10:16:33 AM
As someone that spent over 20 years proudly serving the United States Navy, I find your comments particularly ignorant and insulting.  I despise Sleepy Joe, but take great offense at you!!

Ignorant?!? Remember arming the KLA, a group we classified as terrorists, so they could attack the Serbs, and when fighting breaks out, WE bombed Serbia’s civilians. For what? Break out Yugoslavia so NATO can advance. Who the heck do you think is aiding Saudi and Al Qaeda in Yemen? Al Qaeda ferchrissakes! Same phucking group behind 911. You know which group is also the recipients of US/ western arms being imported to Ukraine? The Azov militants.  Freaking neo-nazi group.

Biden is but a small part of the recent US murderous global excursion. You think my statement is offensive, have you ever considered what Libyans, Iraqis, afghans, Serbians et al think? Or such realities doesn’t bother your sensibilities much?

http://youtu.be/zSbFSMMI1UI

Yet, here we are again, front and center in stoking another unnecessary military engagement in matters that have absolutely no threat to us, yet making it all about us once more. At the expense of whose lives all over again?

You served for 20 years and you actually believe our global military excursions post WWII have all been for merit and honor?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 20, 2022, 10:48:52 AM
It's On!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10532793/Secretary-State-Blinken-DoD-Chief-Austin-say-threat-Russian-invasion-deadly-serious.html

Apparently Putin has given the order to Invade now!

Russian troops have now received the order and are apparently finalising their first ground manoeuvres into Ukraine. Sounds like it will be any moment now, a matter of hours perhaps and they will cross they'll attack.

As far as I see it, it will be missile and air attacks first, knock out the small Ukrainian airforce and gain air superiority right away. Also target what they can off Ukrainian troops and installations on the ground including power stations.

The Winter Olympic closing ceremony has taken place now so it's only a matter of time it looks before Russian forces engage. My guess is that the Russian Generals will have a time agreed to begin the attack from all sides at once.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 20, 2022, 11:07:50 AM
Quote from: joe the idiot
"If Russia decides to invade, that would also have consequences here at home. But the American people understand that defending democracy and liberty is never without cost. "I will not pretend this will be painless."

The consequential reality here at home is, this idiot have no clue how to reverse the effects of nearly 8% inflation, record breaking crime, his dying political platform, numerous lawsuits being filed on student debts, etc.

Ukraine is a sacrificial token to serve his idiotic purposes. Who the fuck voted for this idiot!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 20, 2022, 12:37:14 PM
It's On!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10532793/Secretary-State-Blinken-DoD-Chief-Austin-say-threat-Russian-invasion-deadly-serious.html

Apparently Putin has given the order to Invade now!

Russian troops have now received the order and are apparently finalising their first ground manoeuvres into Ukraine. Sounds like it will be any moment now, a matter of hours perhaps and they will cross they'll attack.

As far as I see it, it will be missile and air attacks first, knock out the small Ukrainian airforce and gain air superiority right away. Also target what they can off Ukrainian troops and installations on the ground including power stations.

The Winter Olympic closing ceremony has taken place now so it's only a matter of time it looks before Russian forces engage. My guess is that the Russian Generals will have a time agreed to begin the attack from all sides at once.
So says General Trench, the basement warrior.
From the Daily Mail so it must be true.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2022, 03:06:29 PM
Ted Cruz what a political hack, war lover, and idiot.    I don't at all mind him calling out Bisen, but at least make some sense in making the argument.

How does his logic make sense here?   If Putin had taken Ukraine it would also be in possession of the pipelines and would not have needed nordstream 2.  , Russia probably would have made the pipelines a high priority so even if Ukraine destroyed some of it, they could have rebuilt pretty quick if they wanted to.  Numbnut cruz also fails to mention that Russian gas won't be bought in Europe regardless of which pipeline were used if he were to invade Ukraine.    Russia belt Nordsteam 2 to avoid the 2 billion in transit fees paid to Ukraine. They probably also don't want the US/Ukraine to hold their gas hostage during unrelated negotiations.   I can't blame them for wanting to have complete control over their natural resources.   

Cruz: Europe on 'verge of war' due to 'fecklessness of Joe Biden'

"The reason he's building the pipeline is that it skips Ukraine. It goes right around Ukraine. Why? Because the real insurance that Ukraine had against invasion is that Putin has to take his energy as natural gas in pipelines that go through Ukraine. Once he builds Nord Stream 2, he no longer has to worry about those pipelines," Cruz said
 http://www.yahoo.com/news/cruz-europe-apos-verge-war-180718873.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/cruz-europe-apos-verge-war-180718873.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 20, 2022, 03:40:36 PM
Ted Cruz what a political hack, war lover, and idiot.    I don't at all mind him calling out Bisen, but at least make some sense in making the argument.

How does his logic make sense here?   If Putin had taken Ukraine it would also be in possession of the pipelines and would not have needed nordstream 2.  , Russia probably would have made the pipelines a high priority so even if Ukraine destroyed some of it, they could have rebuilt pretty quick if they wanted to.  Numbnut cruz also fails to mention that Russian gas won't be bought in Europe regardless of which pipeline were used if he were to invade Ukraine.    Russia belt Nordsteam 2 to avoid the 2 billion in transit fees paid to Ukraine. They probably also don't want the US/Ukraine to hold their gas hostage during unrelated negotiations.   I can't blame them for wanting to have complete control over their natural resources.   

Cruz: Europe on 'verge of war' due to 'fecklessness of Joe Biden'

"The reason he's building the pipeline is that it skips Ukraine. It goes right around Ukraine. Why? Because the real insurance that Ukraine had against invasion is that Putin has to take his energy as natural gas in pipelines that go through Ukraine. Once he builds Nord Stream 2, he no longer has to worry about those pipelines," Cruz said
 http://www.yahoo.com/news/cruz-europe-apos-verge-war-180718873.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/cruz-europe-apos-verge-war-180718873.html)

Fathertime!


Didn't you know that forcing Russia to ship its gas through Ukraine Hunter will get richer. Not to mention Kamala and Pelosi who have investments in what's-its-name gas company owned by Hunter.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 20, 2022, 04:25:00 PM
HAHA @Muzh. 


Ukrainians were siphoning a lot of Russian gas from the pipeline.  Kravchuk and Tymoshenko both became billionaires by stealing Russian gas.  That's the reason Russia decided to bypass Ukraine. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 20, 2022, 06:23:44 PM
  Kravchuk and Tymoshenko both became billionaires by stealing Russian gas. 

I thought they only took enough to heat their homes.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on February 20, 2022, 06:53:19 PM
Interesting thread in the history of the Donbas.

http://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1495200579919958021.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 02:54:22 AM
It's On!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10532793/Secretary-State-Blinken-DoD-Chief-Austin-say-threat-Russian-invasion-deadly-serious.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10532793/Secretary-State-Blinken-DoD-Chief-Austin-say-threat-Russian-invasion-deadly-serious.html)

Apparently Putin has given the order to Invade now!

Russian troops have now received the order and are apparently finalising their first ground manoeuvres into Ukraine. Sounds like it will be any moment now, a matter of hours perhaps and they will cross they'll attack.

As far as I see it, it will be missile and air attacks first, knock out the small Ukrainian airforce and gain air superiority right away. Also target what they can off Ukrainian troops and installations on the ground including power stations.

The Winter Olympic closing ceremony has taken place now so it's only a matter of time it looks before Russian forces engage. My guess is that the Russian Generals will have a time agreed to begin the attack from all sides at once.


Well it was with some trepidation i turned on the news this morning,expecting to see Ukraine in flames after General Trench's pronouncement with seeming relish that the invasion is on !!


Nope..no invasion..no Ukraine in flames....just seems Trench's hysteria took over again. :rolleyes:


The reality is that after a two hour phone call between Putin and Macron yesterday,they both agree that more dialogue over Ukraine is needed.



Of course the Russian-backed separatists in Donbas no doubt have other plans ,as it's clear what their agenda is by their recent dubious claims and actions.


Hopefully Putin won't get sucked in by them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 21, 2022, 05:52:41 AM
Saw that some of the folks that are being 'evaucated', aren't pleased by being sent to places far from home.

They are telling folks to stay instead.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 06:35:07 AM
No young men were evacuated anyway..they've been ordered by the Russian-backed separatists to stay and fight the fantasy incoming Ukraine attack in Donbas...while their young women have been sent over a 1000 km away to near Moscow.


A cynical person might say it's a convenient way to inject some more young and fertile women into an ageing Russian population...with their blokes stuck a 1000 km away.


The BBC filmed loads of young women,some with children, being piled into Buses...with some saying that with them being taken so far away it isn't looking short-term.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 08:13:11 AM
No young men were evacuated anyway..they've been ordered by the Russian-backed separatists to stay and fight the fantasy incoming Ukraine attack in Donbas...while their young women have been sent over a 1000 km away to near Moscow.


A cynical person might say it's a convenient way to inject some more young and fertile women into an ageing Russian population...with their blokes stuck a 1000 km away.


The BBC filmed loads of young women,some with children, being piled into Buses...with some saying that with them being taken so far away it isn't looking short-term.

I need to go where near Moscow??? :P
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on February 21, 2022, 08:45:46 AM
No young men were evacuated anyway..they've been ordered by the Russian-backed separatists to stay and fight the fantasy incoming Ukraine attack in Donbas...while their young women have been sent over a 1000 km away to near Moscow.


A cynical person might say it's a convenient way to inject some more young and fertile women into an ageing Russian population...with their blokes stuck a 1000 km away.


The BBC filmed loads of young women,some with children, being piled into Buses...with some saying that with them being taken so far away it isn't looking short-term.

My wife is from Lugansk. Currently all private vehicles are being siezed. All men 18-64 are being rounded up and forcibly conscripted. All the marstruka's have been siezed  and are being used in the consription process. The only men not being conscripted are medical professionals, they have been given a special document to show in case they are being forcibly conscripted. This information is from my wife's family. Her daughter's father is a doctor(surgeon) and has told my wifes daughter about the document. They are telling all the women and children to evacuate to Russia, but to where no one really knows. Some are evacuating, but most are not willing to go without their husbands and fathers. My wife says, how is a woman with small children going to survive away from home without their husband to provide and protect them.

This has my wife and her family stressed to the max. All the delivery of goods will soon come to a standstill due to the conscriptions. They are currently going to the market daily to buy needed goods as they expect it to run out of supplies soon.

They are having intermittent internet and electrical outages for the last few days.  Natural gas line fires have been shown on the local tv to prove that the Ukrainians are coming, the Ukrainians are coming.

The amount of propaganda is just insane at the moment.

I am fortunate in that my wife returned last week before all this craziness kicked off. I have no idea what I would do if she was stuck there now.
The wife is feeling guilty that she is safe and her family is dealing with all the insanity.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 21, 2022, 08:53:28 AM
My wife is from Lugansk. Currently all private vehicles are being siezed. All men 18-64 are being rounded up and forcibly conscripted. All the marstruka's have been siezed  and are being used in the consription process. The only men not being conscripted are medical professionals, they have been given a special document to show in case they are being forcibly conscripted. This information is from my wife's family. Her daughters father is a doctor(surgeon) and has told my wifes daughter about the document. They are telling all the women and children to evacuate to Russia, but to where no one really knows. Some are evacuating but most are not willing to go without their husbands and fathers. My wife says how is a woman with small children going to survive away from home without their husband to provide and protect them.

This has my wife and her family stressed to the max. All the delivery of goods will soon come to a standstill due to the conscriptions. They are currently going to the market daily to buy needed goods as they expect it to run out of supplies soon.

They are having intermittent internet and electrical outages for the last few days.  Natural gas line fires have been shown on the local tv to prove that the Ukrainians are coming, the Ukrainians are coming.

The amount of propaganda is just insane at the moment.

I am fortunate in that my wife returned last week before all this craziness kicked off. I have no idea what I would do if she was stuck there now.
The wife is feeling guilty that she is safe and her family is dealing with all the insanity.

WOW this is a very informative first hand account.
Thanks for posting.
I had heard that the forced bussing was only for TV consumption and that  the people were actually taken back into their home towns later.
They also put some children from orphanages on busses for TV, but later took them back.
Any info on these specific items from your wife's family?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on February 21, 2022, 09:40:31 AM
WOW this is a very informative first hand account.
Thanks for posting.
I had heard that the forced bussing was only for TV consumption and that  the people were actually taken back into their home towns later.
They also put some children from orphanages on busses for TV, but later took them back.
Any info on these specific items from your wife's family?

I talked to the wife. She says the pictures are real, the women are panicing and are leaving Lugansk with their children. She is not sure about the orphanages.

She is watching the RU news and political shows, and currently Putin is deciding if they will move into the Donbass area "For the protection of Russian people". One thing to remember, shortly after the 2014 hostilities, Putin offered Russian passports to those who lived in the Donbass area, so that would allow him to say they are Russian. Supposedly a decision will be made by tomorrow evening.

Guess we will see what happens. Never thought I would have to watch something like this, and have to worry about family members being in the crosshairs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 21, 2022, 10:26:27 AM
Zelensky, paraphrased, to the US:

~"...If you know exactly, with your intelligence that you keep announcing, that Russia is definitely invading Ukraine in a specific day, why do you not sanction Russia now? What are you waiting for? It doesn't do Ukraine any good for you to sanction Russia AFTER they invade Ukraine!..."~

Dunno, IMHO, the dude has a point! Good luck making any sense with the US liberals' president, My Zelensky. Maybe call him anytime after 4 PM when he wakes up from his daily naps.

Kamala Harris (pp), "...if Russia invades Ukraine, Americans must be prepared that the price of gas will go up!..." WOW! Thank good ness for that warning, your excellency! You mean more than the 150% increase it is already at since you and napping Joe took over?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 11:03:54 AM
I talked to the wife. She says the pictures are real, the women are panicing and are leaving Lugansk with their children. She is not sure about the orphanages.

She is watching the RU news and political shows, and currently Putin is deciding if they will move into the Donbass area "For the protection of Russian people". One thing to remember, shortly after the 2014 hostilities, Putin offered Russian passports to those who lived in the Donbass area, so that would allow him to say they are Russian. Supposedly a decision will be made by tomorrow evening.

Guess we will see what happens. Never thought I would have to watch something like this, and have to worry about family members being in the crosshairs.

Yep and here is Putin's excuse to invade Ukraine. First move into Donbass to have 'save' the now Russian people there against the aggression and genocide of Ukraine. From there he will probably pound the living cr*p out of the bulk of the Ukrainian Army that is in Eastern Ukraine through missile attacks and God knows what. That will leave the rest of Ukraine, Kyiv etc vulnerable IF he chooses to invade the rest of Ukraine. There may be a chance that he doesn't. The rest of the encirclement might just be there to stop Ukraine counter attacking into Russian territory, keep the pressure on and have the option to invade if they decide to. Once the Ukrainian Army is smashed in the East good and proper there will be little left to defend Ukraine with, that will likely become apparent to those in the Ukrainian establishment and they will likely sue for peace. The Russian puppets will come forward and be chosen and Russia will have what it wants. That's a possible scenario I think, that or Russia will wind up the Donbass excuse to totally invade Ukraine.

That the Donbass separatists are see fit to conscript nearly all the men, possibly at gun point and their family possibly held as ransom well I don't think they would be doing that if Russia was not about to invade. All about getting the situation there wound up enough to give the Russians an excuse to move in. What are the odds these men will be used as cannon fodder in a new onslaught on the Ukrainian front lines to demonstrate heightened tensions necessary for Russian involvement.

Terrible times.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 11:12:14 AM
The women and children being used as hostages to make the men in the Donbas region fight with Ukraine is something i hadn't considered and is a good point....and yes for sure those men will be stuck in the front-line as cannon fodder if so.


Putin is making an announcement to the Russian people on state TV tonight.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 11:45:42 AM
The women and children being used as hostages to make the men in the Donbas region fight against Ukraine is something i hadn't considered and is a good point....and yes for sure those men will be stuck in the front-line as cannon fodder if so.


Putin is making an announcement to the Russian people on state TV tonight.

It's probably this:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-vladimir-putin-set-to-decide-whether-to-recognise-separatist-regions-in-ukraine-as-independent-12548002

All starting to play out now. He'll recognise them as independent state/country. They'll ask him to protect them again Ukrainian aggression. He'll move in and pound the hell out of the Ukrainian Army, etc, etc...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 12:21:33 PM
Putin has recognized the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk regions
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 02:35:35 PM
Putin has just ordered peacekeeping moves in Eastern Ukraine.


Looks like the invasion of Ukraine is starting. :(
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 03:01:20 PM
Putin has just ordered peacekeeping moves in Eastern Ukraine.


Looks like the invasion of Ukraine is starting. :(

That's it then, the invasion has begun!

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-live-updates-satellite-images-show-new-russia-deployments-as-biden-and-putin-summit-mooted-12541713

Looks like General Trench here wasn't too far off with my prediction of Invasion just hours away yesterday ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 03:14:18 PM
I don't see Ukraine in flames as you predicted...with missiles being launched to obliterate the Ukraine army.


No pounding of Kiev occurring or Naval bombardment or air strikes.


I've seen a video purporting to be Russian troops arriving in Eastern Ukraine in....Buses.


It's actually working out as i predicted with Putin using a pretext to send troops into Eastern Ukraine


I bet they're not happy all the local hotties have been sent elsewhere  :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 05:01:34 PM
I don't see Ukraine in flames as you predicted...with missiles being launched to obliterate the Ukraine army.


No pounding of Kiev occurring or Naval bombardment or air strikes.


I've seen a video purporting to be Russian troops arriving in Eastern Ukraine in....Buses.


It's actually working out as i predicted with Putin using a pretext to send troops into Eastern Ukraine


I bet they're not happy all the local hotties have been sent elsewhere  :)

Not yet but this is the start of Russia's invasion. Just wait until the Russian cruise missiles start flying at Ukraine's army in the East the pretext probably being to quell the Ukrainian aggression or something like that. After that probably some more bs by Russia to move into Ukraine, onto Kiev.

I don't think I ever discounted the Donbass as a false flag event. I believe I even accepted that, that was one plausible scenario too. Though you'd pointedly make the case and it seems that you were right in doing so CB.

I'm not surprised Russia is already moving in troops, Putin seems in a hurry now to get underway on all of this and get what he wants.

Now just a matter of waiting for the next piece of bs from Putin as to why he needs to hammer Ukraine's army. I wonder how long we will have to wait for that one?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 05:17:14 PM
Apparently sanctions are to be announced later today against Russia by the UK, probably the US & EU also:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60472639.amp

Could possibly see visas to Russia go or that might be left until a full invasion of Ukraine occurs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2022, 05:25:26 PM
The Ukrainian President has just said that Ukraine isn't giving anything away,despite Putins statement , and that Putin can  basically do one


I found out yesterday that Ukraine received  Drones from Turkey that are basically Russian Tank busters with an excellent track record against them.


Boris said this evening we're looking to send more weapons to Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on February 21, 2022, 06:46:40 PM
American intelligence has just announced that Putin’s first objective with his “peace keeping” mission to the Donbass, is to supply new smart phones, web cams and improve internet access to all attractive women..... Single mothers will be given industrial strength protective phone cases to combat the spike in clumsy and careless children breaking their mammas camera...... Owning a phone without Skype or Whatsapp installed will now be a criminal offence 😜
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 21, 2022, 06:49:38 PM
General Trenchcoat! 

Looks like some of what you said may become reality.  I don't see a real shooting war just yet though.  I don't envision Russia allowing itself to get involved in such a quagmire.  I could see the two regions of Donetsk and Luhansk becoming independent though.  If Ukraine tries to resist that from happening, I can see Russia throwing everything at them with overwhelming force.   

Let's see what Bisen and Company can do at their little summit.  By Putin being so aggressive it would seem that now everybody has something to lose, verses it being only a lose situation for Russia.  Perhaps Putin's thinking is, Ukraine can attempt to join the EU or NATO but they are going to lose some of their country in making this attempt.

I do wonder how the constant use of sanctions and threats against the Russian Nordstream 2 has played into Russia's thinking.  Since the US has been so miserable with China they now become close with Russia, which they may feel gives them additional latitude to take more aggressive steps.   I see the US winning big.   The conflict could provide the wedge preventing Russia from providing gas to Europe. The US would be delighted to 'help' out there! 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2022, 11:16:47 PM
The Ukrainian President has just said that Ukraine isn't giving anything away,despite Putins statement , and that Putin can  basically do one


I found out yesterday that Ukraine received  Drones from Turkey that are basically Russian Tank busters with an excellent track record against them.


Boris said this evening we're looking to send more weapons to Ukraine.

I think unless they get some real heavy intercept missile capability to stop Russia's cruise missiles, etc then a lit of that stuff won't be making a difference in the right area and Ukraine's forces will be way too vulnerable as a result.

That's no doubt sone serious hardware that they need to do that. Possibly the UK etc could do a kind of Lend-Lease program like the US did with the UK during WWII. It really needs some big SAM installations or mobile SAM intercept missile gear to take out those missiles and likely a lot of them. Without that the Russians will just rain missiles down upon Ukraine's army and finish them off within minutes as I see it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 01:16:41 AM
The invasion has been confirmed by Reuters.


Russian Tanks and Armoured Personnel Carriers have been seen entering the outskirts of Donetsk.


The Ukraine Ambassador to the UK, when asked what additional military help is needed in Ukraine, said they have enough anti-Tank weaponry to deal with Russia's Tanks,but weaponry to deal with Russia's air and naval superiority is needed.


Those on here who said Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine were clearly VERY wrong.


Putin and every Russian politician and diplomat asked about a potential invasion of Ukraine "We will not be invading Ukraine "


Russia then invades Ukraine.


What an untrustworthy nation Russia is.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 22, 2022, 03:00:28 AM
The invasion has been confirmed by Reuters.


Russian Tanks and Armoured Personnel Carriers have been seen entering the outskirts of Donetsk.


The Ukraine Ambassador to the UK, when asked what additional military help is needed in Ukraine, said they have enough anti-Tank weaponry to deal with Russia's Tanks,but weaponry to deal with Russia's air and naval superiority is needed.


Those on here who said Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine were clearly VERY wrong.


Putin and every Russian politician and diplomat asked about a potential invasion of Ukraine "We will not be invading Ukraine "


Russia then invades Ukraine.


What an untrustworthy nation Russia is.
I wouldn’t call it an invasion yet.
They’ve just formalized their occupation of the illegal breakaway territories which they were doing covertly since 2014.
If they now move to expand their occupation to the whole of Donbas then I would call it an invasion.
But untrustworthy? Most definitely, Putin most certainly has a few screws lose.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 22, 2022, 04:31:00 AM
The invasion has been confirmed by Reuters.


Russian Tanks and Armoured Personnel Carriers have been seen entering the outskirts of Donetsk.


The Ukraine Ambassador to the UK, when asked what additional military help is needed in Ukraine, said they have enough anti-Tank weaponry to deal with Russia's Tanks,but weaponry to deal with Russia's air and naval superiority is needed.


Those on here who said Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine were clearly VERY wrong.


Putin and every Russian politician and diplomat asked about a potential invasion of Ukraine "We will not be invading Ukraine "


Russia then invades Ukraine.


What an untrustworthy nation Russia is.

Yep there is definitely egg that some posters will be wiping off face on here today :D

I wonder if Ukraine will now start calling up more conscripts now that the separatists have done so in Donbas & Luhansk. Some men Ukraine apparently already conscripts in but recently women have been asked to sign a conscript register for 'possible' conscription:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/12/27/ukraine-requires-women-register-military-conscription-russia-threat-looms.html/amp

As usual there are the get outs of being a student and for women being pregnant, children. I kind of wonder if it comes down to it how many would be called up or whether it's just a stunt to appease men and in reality none to few will be called up. In the west so called 'gender equality' and then bullsh*t is what we are used to. Ukraine is apparently more patriarchal so I am surprised they are even touting female conscription around.

I'm going to take a guess on this one that what are the chances that very few females will be conscripted and those that are will just get light sentry duty in unimportant military warehouses, barrack locations, work in admin, etc and the very few that want to be on the front line is only by their choosing and will probably be lesbians wanting to make a name for themselves. My guess is that this female conscription lark is all a big ruse to assure Ukrainian men that Ukrainian women are being drafted with them when really it's all just for show.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 06:14:10 AM
Germany has announced they're now halting certification of Nord-stream 2,without which gas cannot flow through the pipeline.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 22, 2022, 06:51:30 AM
The invasion has been confirmed by Reuters.

The article was written in easy-to-read English.

http://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-doubt-biden-summit-with-putin-eyes-new-sanctions-tuesday-official-2022-02-21/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 22, 2022, 07:14:08 AM
The biggest difference now is that they can put 12 Russian divisions if they want while before only put undercover military people plus special forces plus milicy.

The difference is huge, especially if you add the air, ECM, missiles, cyber attacks, and all the artillery stuff.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 07:20:27 AM
The article was written in easy-to-read English.

http://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-doubt-biden-summit-with-putin-eyes-new-sanctions-tuesday-official-2022-02-21/ (http://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-doubt-biden-summit-with-putin-eyes-new-sanctions-tuesday-official-2022-02-21/)


No surprise that Biden is bottling it.


All political parties in the UK have agreed it's a Russian  invasion of Ukraine  in Parliament today....and it's triggered  fresh sanctions from the UK


I wonder what Bidens's response would be if Mexico illegally annexed Texas, on behalf of the Mexican speakers there, and sent troops and Tanks in to hold it ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 22, 2022, 07:45:18 AM

I wonder what Bidens's response would be if Mexico illegally annexed Texas, on behalf of the Mexican speakers there, and sent troops and Tanks in to hold it ?
Heck we probably have more spanish speaker than Mexico now.  We would be the ones sending the tanks over mexico's border to protect our spanish speakers. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 08:14:49 AM
The article was written in easy-to-read English.

http://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-doubt-biden-summit-with-putin-eyes-new-sanctions-tuesday-official-2022-02-21/ (http://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-doubt-biden-summit-with-putin-eyes-new-sanctions-tuesday-official-2022-02-21/)


The White House is now calling it "an invasion " after the UK announced it's sanctions against Russia.


The UK leads..others follow  :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 08:45:49 AM
I wouldn’t call it an invasion yet.
They’ve just formalized their occupation of the illegal breakaway territories which they were doing covertly since 2014.
If they now move to expand their occupation to the whole of Donbas then I would call it an invasion.
But untrustworthy? Most definitely, Putin most certainly has a few screws lose.


A country illegally annexing parts of another country,then sending in troops and Tanks to hold it is an invasion.


Since my post the UK and now the USA are also calling it an invasion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 22, 2022, 09:08:56 AM
Heck we probably have more spanish speaker than Mexico now.  We would be the ones sending the tanks over mexico's border to protect our spanish speakers. 

Fathertime!


Well, for what its worth, you always must consider the source. Mexico, even under the best case scenario, have no military capabilities to be a threat to California, much less the US.


Now, just as during the Cuban Missile crisis, if Russia ever tries to sign an anti-USA military pact with Mexico - I guarantee you there will be no 'amassing hundreds of thousands of troops' along our southern border. The response will undoubtedly be absolute.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 22, 2022, 09:09:29 AM
Daily OSCE monitoring reports along the hot zone.


http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 09:13:57 AM
NATO has just called it a "further invasion " of Ukraine by Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 22, 2022, 09:15:51 AM
Putin has just asked the Russian assembly for permission to "use force abroad ".


But but it's all western propaganda/warmongering according to GQBlues....whilst NEVER questioning Putin's motives/actions. :rolleyes:


Yet i only see RUSSIAN Tanks and troops invading Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 22, 2022, 09:17:54 AM
I wonder what Bidens's response would be if Mexico illegally annexed Texas...  and sent troops and Tanks in to hold it ?
Wasn't that his campaign promise? They did send troops of niñitos.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 22, 2022, 09:27:46 AM
A country illegally annexing parts of another country,then sending in troops and Tanks to hold it is an invasion.
Still hasn't really been announced as "annexed"... Calls it a peacekeeping force for a separatist state.
 Putin is very clever...can't say the same for the outfit we have.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 22, 2022, 09:43:03 AM

The White House is now calling it "an invasion " after the UK announced it's sanctions against Russia.


The UK leads..others follow  :)

Shows clearly since Brexit that we have been storming ahead of the EU on Foreign Policy among many other areas and the EU can but follow on slowly following in our wake.

It's all happening on the EU's border but they seem to have little direction on the matter. Yet the UK which is further away and no longer a part of the EU is as you rightly say CB is leading on the Ukraine issue and has been for many weeks now including giving Ukraine NLAW's and military expertise.

Glad we have our own governing and direction back :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 22, 2022, 09:46:33 AM
Shows clearly since Brexit that we have been storming ahead of the EU on Foreign Policy among many other areas and the EU can but follow on slowly following in our wake.

It's all happening on the EU's border but they seem to have little direction on the matter. Yet the UK which is further away and no longer a part of the EU is as you rightly say CB is leading on the Ukraine issue and has been for many weeks now including giving Ukraine NLAW's and military expertise.

Glad we have our own governing and direction back :)
All I’ll say is that I’m glad we haven’t got you giving anybody your ‘expertise’.

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 22, 2022, 10:24:42 AM
Now, just as during the Cuban Missile crisis, if Russia ever tries to sign an anti-USA military pact with Mexico - I guarantee you there will be no 'amassing hundreds of thousands of troops' along our southern border. The response will undoubtedly be absolute.
Our little monroe doctrine has pretty much held up for a long time.  There could come a point where people or nations start disrespecting it because we (The US) don't really have the right to dictate these sorts of things to other countries in our hemisphere. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 22, 2022, 11:03:47 AM
Our little monroe doctrine has pretty much held up for a long time.  There could come a point where people or nations start disrespecting it because we (The US) don't really have the right to dictate these sorts of things to other countries in our hemisphere. 

Fathertime!

...and if we keep doing what we're doing, we'll be giving China, if not Russia, good reason to ignore the doctrine.

Back in 2015, Obama, the Euro-Stooge of all people, warned against our further involvement in eastern Europe in the wake of the explosive event that followed the illegal coup of 2014. Let the Ukrainian affairs be solely a European affair. It is evident to all of us now, excursions in Ukraine does not serve our country well.

Quote from: Obama
Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there….The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-Nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do...Ukraine isn’t a NATO country; they’re never going to be a NATO country–and yet we are treating Ukraine not only as if they are a NATO country, but as if we actually have the capability of protecting them from Russia…..This is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for....[/size]Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there….

[/size]Let the Europeans, for a change that's been long overdue, handle European affair themselves, and without our involvement anymore.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 22, 2022, 11:12:39 AM
Let the Europeans, for a change that's been long overdue, handle European affair themselves, and without our involvement anymore.


Last time we tried that we ended with WWII. Remember "Peace in our times?"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 22, 2022, 11:14:04 AM

Last time we tried that we ended with with WWII. Remember "Peace in our times?"


A mere case of damn if you do, and damn if you don't.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 22, 2022, 11:15:24 AM

A mere case of damn if you do, and damn if you don't.


Funny you mentioned that. Thomas Friedman wrote today a nice piece along the same lines. Sorta.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 22, 2022, 11:17:58 AM

Funny you mentioned that. Thomas Friedman wrote today a nice piece along the same lines. Sorta.

That's my take. We have more than enough problems here at home to be involved in everyone else's halfway around the globe. I feel bad for Ukraine, but certain even 'they' should know where their welfare lie at this time, and the best way forward.

Quote
Now, if there is somebody in this town that would claim that we would consider going to war with Russia over Crimea and eastern Ukraine, they should speak up and be very clear about it. The idea that talking tough or engaging in some military action that is tangential to that particular area is somehow going to influence the decision making of Russia or China is contrary to all the evidence we have seen over the last 50 years...

[/size]Pretty effective words, IMO. Too bad he's been pretty darn silent right now. Why?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 22, 2022, 12:00:21 PM
Putin/Russian Parliament authorizes use of force abroad:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-putin-asks-legislators-for-permission-to-use-armed-forces-outside-russia-12548832

Russia removed it's diplomatic staff from Ukraine, surprised they hadn't already.

NATO believe a full scale attack of Ukraine is on the cards.

All coming into play now by the looks of it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 22, 2022, 02:54:06 PM
Putin says he doesn't intend to abide by Minsk Agreement:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-ukraine-war-putin-live-26295655

UK says all UK citizens should now leave Ukraine, obviously the now seemingly inevitable is now expected.

-------------------

Putin has apparently said that his intervention 'peacekeeping' covers the whole of the Donbas & Luhansk region (not just the city & separatist areas themselves). So here we may have it, Putin ready to go in & lay claim to the whole of these regions and thereby attacking the Ukrainian army there that stands in his way.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10537897/Ukraine-crisis-Invasion-begun-Sajid-Javid-declares.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 22, 2022, 05:34:17 PM
Joe Biden... imposing sanctions on the two largest Russian banks that already had sanctions placed on them after the Russian incursion in Crimea :rolleyes: I wish that he was as enthusiastic in taking care of his own country's business.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 23, 2022, 03:22:59 AM
State of emergency now declared in Ukraine..except for the Donetsk and Luhansk regions...with people now having the right to bear arms.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 03:37:31 AM
Indeed CB, Australian PM reckons full out Invasion of the whole of Ukraine will happen within 24 hours:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-news-war-putin-invasion-b2021232.html

Ukraine has declared a state of emergency with a full out Invasion thought imminent. My guess is that both sides have now had time to remove Embassy staff, and give notice to citizens to leave respective countries, and everything is now in place for hostilities to commence.

Apparently Russia can only keep its troops on the Ukrainian border for so long because of harsh conditions. Although the winter seems to have been milder this year and will soon be coming out of Winter.

The Russians have been moving in blood supplies which are of course only needed if you plan to attack:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-ukraine-war-sanctions-live-26295655

Ukraine has legalised the carrying of arms by its citizens for self defense purposes, will be just like the US now ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on February 23, 2022, 03:57:55 AM
State of emergency now declared in Ukraine..except for the Donetsk and Luhansk regions...with people now having the right to bear arms.

The state of emergency would be imposed for 30 days (renewable) and will cover the whole of Ukraine, with the exception of the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, which already in a state of emergency
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 04:03:15 AM
The Ukrainian President is now calling forward conscripts from the reserve to join the the main regular army:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-calls-up-reservists-launches-programme-economic-patriotism-2022-02-22/

If I were them I would be making use of that European Tourist visa-free scheme :D

Many of the great and the good have fled Ukraine as the article points out, wealthy businessmen, politicians, etc. I wouldn't see a need to fight if they aren't lol.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on February 23, 2022, 04:25:03 AM
The Ukrainian President is now calling forward conscripts from the reserve to join the the main regular army:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-calls-up-reservists-launches-programme-economic-patriotism-2022-02-22/

If I were them I would be making use of that European visa-free scheme :D

Many of the great and the good have fled Ukraine as the article points out, wealthy businessmen, politicians, etc. I wouldn't see a need to fight if they aren't lol.

I have 5 ladies and two small children (Tanyas friend) on their way here right now that used just that to "escape". They drove through Poland yesterday and took the overnight ferry to Sweden so now we are preparing the house to accommodate them for a while.

One of them has her husband in the army near Mariupol right on the frontline and they have been shelled continually for 2 days now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 07:06:15 AM
I have 5 ladies and two small children (Tanyas friend) on their way here right now that used just that to "escape". They drove through Poland yesterday and took the overnight ferry to Sweden so now we are preparing the house to accommodate them for a while.

One of them has her husband in the army near Mariupol right on the frontline and they have been shelled continually for 2 days now.

Yeah sounds about right the women scarper while the guys are put up to face it all lol. Anyway interesting to hear from a more local source how things are on the ground Nightwish. Sounds hellish being stuck in the trenches under such harsh conditions especially being shelled for 2 days straight, no doubt led to a few casualties.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 23, 2022, 07:47:03 AM
The Ukrainian President is now calling forward conscripts from the reserve to join the the main regular army:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-calls-up-reservists-launches-programme-economic-patriotism-2022-02-22/

If I were them I would be making use of that European Tourist visa-free scheme :D

Many of the great and the good have fled Ukraine as the article points out, wealthy businessmen, politicians, etc. I wouldn't see a need to fight if they aren't lol.
Reading your posts anyone would think you’re actually revelling at the prospect of conflict.
No doubt you think it’ll up your chances of ‘getting’ with a poor war refugee.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 23, 2022, 08:20:53 AM
Reading your posts anyone would think you’re actually revelling at the prospect of conflict.
No doubt you think it’ll up your chances of ‘getting’ with a poor war refugee.
Nah...will remain our resident news anchor always.

It does seem as though the media wants a war to report on... no doubt fueled by military contractor lobbyists.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 23, 2022, 09:00:55 AM
Reading your posts anyone would think you’re actually revelling at the prospect of conflict.
No doubt you think it’ll up your chances of ‘getting’ with a poor war refugee.


If that's Trench's thinking i suspect he's in for a nasty shock.


The hotties that are not being bused to Russia will be fleeing to Poland.


Once they're in Poland he'll have as much chance of pulling one of them as he has with a Polish girl...virtually nil..as they'll be hooking up with the local Polish guys as a way to remain there.


As for the few remaining in Ukraine then they'll be the benefits of conquest for the occupying Russian troops..bearing in mind General Trench has stated the Ukrainian forces will be obliterated by the Russian forces within a couple of days.


Russian troops are well-known for their treatment of women in occupied countries...as in Germany.


Plus the fact Trench,being a Brit and with our country in the forefront of  helping Ukrainians kill Russian troops.he'll be far from welcome in a Russia occupied Ukraine or Russia..he might not even get out of the airport in one piece,


Nope,if things go as Trench believes,then he can forget about finding a wife/girlfriend in Ukraine now....it's all over for him there and in Russia .


Philippines or Thailand are his best options...plenty of edgy bad girls who dress in a slutty way he likes working the bars there who'll be only too happy to shack up with a Brit.


He might even find a Russian or Ukrainian girl there...Pattaya is full of them.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 23, 2022, 09:21:01 AM

If that's Trench's thinking i suspect he's in for a nasty shock.

Our Trench isn’t known for his listening skills since he ignores sound advice here unless it fits with his peculiar theories.
Quote



Philippines or Thailand are his best options...plenty of edgy bad girls who dress in a slutty way he likes working the bars there who'll be only too happy to shack up with a Brit.
He might be in for a shock with those pretty lil things and get more than he paid bargained for.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 09:55:06 AM

If that's Trench's thinking i suspect he's in for a nasty shock.


The hotties that are not being bused to Russia will be fleeing to Poland.


Once they're in Poland he'll have as much chance of pulling one of them as he has with a Polish girl...virtually nil..as they'll be hooking up with the local Polish guys as a way to remain there.


As for the few remaining in Ukraine then they'll be the benefits of conquest for the occupying Russian troops..bearing in mind General Trench has stated the Ukrainian forces will be obliterated by the Russian forces within a couple of days.


Russian troops are well-known for their treatment of women in occupied countries...as in Germany.


Plus the fact Trench,being a Brit and with our country in the forefront of  helping Ukrainians kill Russian troops.he'll be far from welcome in a Russia occupied Ukraine or Russia..he might not even get out of the airport in one piece,


Nope,if things go as Trench believes,then he can forget about finding a wife/girlfriend in Ukraine now....it's all over for him there and in Russia .


Philippines or Thailand are his best options...plenty of edgy bad girls who dress in a slutty way he likes working the bars there who'll be only too happy to shack up with a Brit.


He might even find a Russian or Ukrainian girl there...Pattaya is full of them.

I think worst case scenario you could be right CB. I think me, Pat, Steven & CB, etc will have to hope on Ukraine being made a puppet state and not incorporated into Russia. With a bit of luck they'll still allow tourist visa-free scheme as before to keep up the appearance of being still somewhat autonomous to the outside world. If that occurs we may ironically be better off than before as at least then we won't have Ukraine having close ties or even seeking membership with the EU and that raining on our parade. The Ukrainian visa-free EU scheme for its citizens will then probably be stopped and matters will be as they used to be in Ukraine again.

Poland idk, there is that, that the hottest girls may try to get with a Polish guy but there's the Religious difference, then a bit of cultural issues - the way the Polish value Ukrainian ms, etc. Also many Polish may already have wives, etc. Could be that our search for a Ukrainian girl takes us to Poland in future lol.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 11:24:56 AM
Reading your posts anyone would think you’re actually revelling at the prospect of conflict.
No doubt you think it’ll up your chances of ‘getting’ with a poor war refugee.

I'm not revelling in the prospect of war between Russia & Ukraine at all Gaunty. None of it is my doing nor do I take any joy in the matter merely a keen interest as it's a country vans people I have great interest with, the women obviously mainly but I do have sympathy for the Ukrainian guys out there who are having to stomach it all.

Unfortunately, I can see little good news on the horizon for Ukrainians, the ball really is in Russia's court, specifically Putin on how it goes down from here and how much suffering is inflicted upon Ukrainians as a result.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 23, 2022, 11:26:34 AM
Our Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace  said Putin "has gone full tonto ".


That means Taken Lunacy to a new level...easy English for you to read GQBlues.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on February 23, 2022, 11:56:48 AM

If that's Trench's thinking i suspect he's in for a nasty shock.


The hotties that are not being bused to Russia will be fleeing to Poland.

<sniped>

well five of them arrived in Sweden today, five gorgeous Ukrainian ladies in their 30's will be occupying our home for the foreseeable future. If Trench wasn't such an ass I would invite him to come here and meet them, but.. naaah I would not do that to any lady, that would be a punishment worse than staying in Ukraine.

The checkpoint to Poland was really congested yesterday, a lot of women and children going to relatives already in west Europe. Took the girls over 4 hours to get across even though Polish borderguards just waived them through quickly after checking that they had valid passports, didn't even bother to question them where they where going.

I can just imagine the pressure on the border if Russia starts a bigger invasion targeting Kyiv and other bigger cities.

Mariupol is in Putins sight, he wants that landbridge to Crimea and the deployment of Ukrainian troops there around Mariupol is massive already, they expect a charge at any time, shelling has been going on endlessly for the last two days and when one of them here got a videocall from her husband on the front we could both see and hear the shells falling and the explosions.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 12:02:57 PM
Our Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace  said Putin "has gone full tonto ".


That means Taken Lunacy to a new level...easy English for you to read GQBlues.


As I've exemplified in more than one occasion about you, pretty obvious the 'ability to read and comprehend' isn't mutual.


Invasion yet?  >:D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on February 23, 2022, 12:11:47 PM

As I've exemplified in more than one occasion about you, pretty obvious the 'ability to read and comprehend' isn't mutual.


Invasion yet?  >:D
Yes, the invasion started 2014
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 12:22:33 PM
Yes, the invasion started 2014



I guess for Europeans, there isn't a distinction between a civil war from an invasion. Cannibalism is cannibalism, I suppose.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on February 23, 2022, 12:35:21 PM

I guess for Europeans, there isn't a distinction between a civil war from an invasion. Cannibalism is cannibalism, I suppose.

"Some" Americans are obviously not well educated in the simplest geography, not surprised though, let me explain this simply for you

Russia IS NOT Ukraine
In Russian: россия не украина
In programming language: Russia != Ukraine


Crimea is part of Ukraine - Crimea was invaded by Russia 2014

I know you often act stupid but You can not be this stupid?

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 12:42:37 PM
"Some" Americans are obviously not well educated in the simplest geography, not surprised though, let me explain this simply for you

Russia IS NOT Ukraine
In Russian: россия не украина
In programming language: Russia != Ukraine


Crimea is part of Ukraine - Crimea was invaded by Russia 2014

I know you often act stupid but You can not be this stupid?


How ironic. Crimea at the time was an autonomous state.


Stupid much?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on February 23, 2022, 12:49:30 PM

How ironic. Crimea at the time was an autonomous state.


Stupid much?
Yes, yes you are.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 12:53:29 PM
Yes, yes you are.


 >:D  Happy to edooket another European.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 23, 2022, 01:23:46 PM
Crimea was an autonomous republic within the Ukrainian state.  It was not an independent country.  It was a subdivision of Ukraine.  Yes, it was invaded by Russia in 2014.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 01:59:52 PM
well five of them arrived in Sweden today, five gorgeous Ukrainian ladies in their 30's will be occupying our home for the foreseeable future. If Trench wasn't such an ass I would invite him to come here and meet them, but.. naaah I would not do that to any lady, that would be a punishment worse than staying in Ukraine.

The checkpoint to Poland was really congested yesterday, a lot of women and children going to relatives already in west Europe. Took the girls over 4 hours to get across even though Polish borderguards just waived them through quickly after checking that they had valid passports, didn't even bother to question them where they where going.

I can just imagine the pressure on the border if Russia starts a bigger invasion targeting Kyiv and other bigger cities.

Mariupol is in Putins sight, he wants that landbridge to Crimea and the deployment of Ukrainian troops there around Mariupol is massive already, they expect a charge at any time, shelling has been going on endlessly for the last two days and when one of them here got a videocall from her husband on the front we could both see and hear the shells falling and the explosions.

Ah see we have that Husky back on here again licking at me balls ;D

It looks like many Ukrainians are making their way to western Ukraine to Lviv in particular according to this article:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/as-russia-inches-closer-to-war-lviv-has-become-a-sanctuary/100851494

They are no doubt hedging their bets and thinking if Russia invades then they can do a quick sprint to the Polish border. I'm thinking they may be taken by surprise by a quick push by Russian possibly even some Belarusian troops from the North. They reckon 1-2 Millon mostly Ukrainians will try to cross, but what are the odds that Putin know this and will try to race forward as fast as possible to cut off the 'escape route'. May all depend on Putin's plans for Ukraine, if he is looking to incorporate the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation then he'll want to keep his hands on as much of the population as possible to work there. If his intentions is to set up a puppet government then he might figure those that cross the border might soon return, although he might still try to rush to close the border just in case.

So if I were in Lviv I wouldn't necessarily count on crossing quick especially as loads of others will be clogging up the roads and railways to do the same. Lviv may not look far on the map from the Polish border but it still takes a but of time to get there and that may become an issue for some I'm thinking.

I think Putin will be wanting to get his hands on Mariupol pretty eagerly as it's worth in being a Maritime Port on the Black Sea makes it strategically worthy. I'm not so sure he'll be that bothered about a land bridge to Crimea now that he has his sea bridge built there. What Putin decides to take and whether he might partition Ukraine we'll have to wait and see I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 02:01:37 PM
Crimea was an autonomous republic within the Ukrainian state.  It was not an independent country.  It was a subdivision of Ukraine.  Yes, it was invaded by Russia in 2014.


Like I said, Crimea was an autonomous state in 2014. Not sure which part of that was difficult to understand.


Invasion: an outside attack, 'entering', 'intrusion', 'penetration' et al...another territory or country.


tsk, tsk, tsk...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 23, 2022, 02:06:55 PM
"Some" Americans are obviously not well educated in the simplest geography, not surprised though, let me explain this simply for you

Russia IS NOT Ukraine
In Russian: россия не украина
In programming language: Russia != Ukraine


Crimea is part of Ukraine - Crimea was invaded by Russia 2014

I know you often act stupid but You can not be this stupid?


Oh yes he is..he shows it with practically every post he makes. :cluebat:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 02:11:46 PM

Oh yes he is..he shows it with practically every post he makes. :cluebat:


GQ, the eagle high above the turkeys.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 23, 2022, 03:15:12 PM
"Autonomous republic" is merely an administratinve designation.  Their budget came from Kyiv.  Their currency was the hyrvnia.  They had no independent foreign policy.  They were akin to Quebec in Canada - even less so, as they had no immigration powers.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 03:38:41 PM
"Autonomous republic" is merely an administratinve designation.  Their budget came from Kyiv.  Their currency as the hyrvnia.  They had no independent foreign policy.  They were akin to Quebec in Canada - even less so, as they had no immigration powers.


Its a 'legal' designation. Crimea still retained the right to choose their own governance. They voted for their annexation to Russia convincingly, and for anyone who would like to dispute that outcome, a poll was conducted 2 years ago (http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2020-04-03/russia-love) and the majority still favored the annexation. And this...


Quote
Crimean residents are almost universally positive toward Russia. At least nine-in-ten have confidence in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive role in Crimea (92%). Confidence in Obama is almost negligible at 4%, and just 2% think the U.S. is having a good influence on the way things are going on the Crimean peninsula[/size].[/color][/size]


Do not make the mistake to think I'm a fan of Putin. There's enough posts of mine in this very board that would openly dispute that. As an American, Ukraine nd Russia have a much deeper history together than most neighboring nations today. It is up to their own peoples to determine their own fate. The last thing I would hate to see is having the US having to stick its snotty nose in this current volatile situation -  AGAIN. There was plenty enough Ukrainians, and Russians, that died in 2014 bloodying our hands with it. Enough.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 23, 2022, 03:58:14 PM
HAHAHA.  Yeah, sure.  They voted for annexation.  Just like Czechoslovakia voted for annexation to Germany in 1938.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 23, 2022, 04:32:04 PM
HAHAHA.  Yeah, sure.  They voted for annexation.  Just like Czechoslovakia voted for annexation to Germany in 1938.


Apples and oranges anyone?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2022, 05:23:43 PM
Apparently 80 percent of Putin's forces now in attack position:

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-enters-state-of-emergency-as-pentagon-says-80-of-russian-forces-in-attack-position-12549749

As I said the Separatists 'asked' Putin for military help which he was all too willing to oblige.

My guess is that they are drawing up battle plans now for the attack, most will have been completed probably by now.

So probably little time left now before Russia attacks. My guess is that they will hit them from all sides at once so it's too much for Ukraine to deal with. The Donbas & Luhansk just serving as an excuse for Putin to state the need to take out Ukraine as a whole as a belligerent nation.

My guess is that they will hit Ukraine's main army in the east with a lot of missiles and in a few other places as well before they send in ground forces. I think that has become almost certain now since we sent them the NLAW's.

I personally see Ukrainian Army casualties as being the highest, unfortunately likely in the tens of thousands almost instantly, could easily be 50,000-100,000 or more. Such a loss of life would be terrible so I would hope otherwise but fear that will be the case.

I think Putin will surround the cities and likely starve them out, at which point with the loss of most of their army the Ukrainian politicians, etc who are open to Russia and themselves gaining lucrative positions in the new regime will likely cone forward to 'negotiate'. Putin will then probably take the bits of Ukraine he wants to incorporate into Russia and give the puppet government his terms which they will agree to.

My guess is that he won't probably try and incorporate all of Ukraine into Russia to avoid a lot of civilian bloodshed by entering all of their major cities, that and a smashed economy. On top of that it would probably avoid terrorism, insurgencies, etc. Otherwise Putin will have to tackle many Ukrainian citizens armed to the teeth in the cities, blasting and clearing as he goes. That is likely to be dangerous for his army and take a lot of time and loss of population & economy. I don't think he'll want to do that its not really worth his while. I think a report a week or so ago said that he reckoned the Russian Army could accomplish the Invasion in about 48 hours. That would tie up with the scenario I've presented. Putin has no doubt seen how it went down for the US, UK, etc in Iraq an won't want those problems on his hands for a long period of time.

Anyway, that's how I reckon it will go down, he won't be up for a WWI or WWII style shooting contest with Ukrainians is my thoughts, he'll keep out of that and use more modern warfare.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on February 23, 2022, 06:24:35 PM
Looks like VVP lost his patience.

Ukraine is an undeniable failed state, and arguably a failed society. In some respects it is comparable to the Balkans. The difference now it is Russia putting its foot down and not NATO.

Welcome to the real world. The ability to put impart military might is still trumps BS. Crimea has been part of the Russian Federation for eight years and that's not going to change. The policy of 'unrecognized' buffer states (South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria) has been expanded. This is by and large a direct response to NATO advancement toward Russia's borders.

To the winner takes the spoils. Russia comprehensively won the conflict in 2014. The West still haven't accepted the "L". The best NATO can muster is a dirty conflict in Donbas. The best the US/UK can do is announce further sanctions. The EU can do jack shit as it is reliant on Russian (energy) exports.

The USD/RUB is nearing new highs. Will be interesting to see if resistance is broken and the RUB declines significantly. If it does then RF real estate is looking like a speculative play to me.


 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 23, 2022, 07:46:36 PM

 

  The last thing I would hate to see is having the US having to stick its snotty nose in this current volatile situation -  AGAIN. There was plenty enough Ukrainians, and Russians, that died in 2014 bloodying our hands with it. Enough.
Dude, the US doesn't have a nose...it has a snout, and it ain't snot, it's shit. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 23, 2022, 07:53:30 PM
. He might be in for a shock with those pretty lil things and get more than he paid bargained for.
Gaunty, you are really underestimating good old TC.  Remember during the great toilet paper crisis of 2020, he is the one who had babes lining up down the block for his TP supply, trading in their bodily wares.   If I recall correctly, he was such a shrewd capitalist that as the crisis deepened, he started charging them by the inch and ply.    If TC wants value with these escaping Ukrainian babes, he will find a way. 

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 23, 2022, 07:59:06 PM
  The last thing I would hate to see is having the US having to stick its snotty nose in this current volatile situation....

 
 (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/afb022322dAPR20220223054505.jpg)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 23, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Gaunty, you are really underestimating good old TC.  Remember during the great toilet paper crisis of 2020, he is the one who had babes lining up down the block for his TP supply, trading in their bodily wares.   If I recall correctly, he was such a shrewd capitalist that as the crisis deepened, he started charging them by the inch and ply.    If TC wants value with these escaping Ukrainian babes, he will find a way. 

Fathertime!
Oh dear.

My post was in response to a comment about TC doing better in Thailand and is about pretty Thai ladies and Ladyboys, not hot Ukrainian women.
As far as Trench and toilet paper goes, thank you for pointing that out. I think that connection is very apt.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 23, 2022, 08:56:38 PM
Crimea was an autonomous republic within the Ukrainian state.  It was not an independent country.  It was a subdivision of Ukraine.  Yes, it was invaded by Russia in 2014.
Exactly.
No semantics here.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 23, 2022, 09:02:36 PM
Putin and Russia strongly condemned in the UN by practically every country for their illegal actions in Crimea and Occupied regions of Donbas.
Great speech by the UKR Foreign Minister.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 23, 2022, 09:04:40 PM

 (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/afb022322dAPR20220223054505.jpg)
One of the funnier cartoons I've seen. 
I'm going to have to try greeting clients in that position at my shop.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 23, 2022, 09:09:51 PM
It seems a full blown war is erupting the US stock exchange has flipped out..  If the earliest of reports are accurate Putin is at all playing around and has threatened US assets as well.  It seems Putin has indeed decided to go big.  Old Trenchcoat may have been right this one time.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on February 23, 2022, 09:43:02 PM
The USD/RUB is nearing new highs. Will be interesting to see if resistance is broken and the RUB declines significantly. If it does then RF real estate is looking like a speculative play to me.
USD/RUB exceeded and closed on a new high. Watching this over the next few days. Not sure the market has already priced in prospective sanctions.

Prior to actions in 2014 USD/RUB was around 35, now it is 84 (was 74 at the start of the year). RCB may need to hike rates to keep inflation in check. Unlike most western countries they haven't adopted ZIRP so may go into recession but keep their currency functional.

Not sure the RF will be cut off from SWIFT but if that happens the RUB may drop like a stone. The only way for ordinary people to get money in and out of the country in that situation is likely to be physical transit.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 23, 2022, 09:53:48 PM
To all those with family in Ukraine, my thoughts and prayers for them.
What Putin has done is beyond the pale.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 02:44:33 AM
FULL SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE HAS BEGUN!!!!!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60503037

Just as I predicted last night Russia has chosen to attack from all sides all at once and has now launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine! Russian troops have breached the Ukrainian border in a number of places and Ukrainian troops have come under missile attack. So much for the military training exercises Russia was just claiming it was up to, shows that Putin can't be trusted. Invasion of the whole of Ukraine is fully underway now, no longer any doubt.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 24, 2022, 02:51:05 AM
FULL SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE HAS BEGUN!!!!!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60503037

Just as I predicted last night Russia has chosen to attack from all sides all at once and has now launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine! Russian troops have breached the Ukrainian border in a number of places and Ukrainian troops have come under missile attack. So much for the military training exercises Russia was just claiming it was up to, shows that Putin can't be trusted. Invasion of the whole of Ukraine is fully underway now, no longer any doubt.
Trench, just stfu.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 03:17:58 AM
Trench, just stfu.

Putin's going about it exactly as I said just hours before hand last night Gaunty. If Putin holds to what he says he's not going to take the whole of Ukraine, it will be as I predicted a puppet government in what remains of Ukraine with them agreeing to Putin's terms. Putin states he is aiming to demilitarise Ukraine so as thought he will hammer Ukraine's military and just leave the new Ukrainian puppet government with whatever remains of the smashed military.

Apparently a number of sites have been hit, military installations and airports including Boryspill International Airport near Kyiv, know it well obviously but no chance of anyone going there now.

Civilians in Kyiv hopped in their cars and piled out of Kyiv moments after Putin's broadcast. Again a complete stompede towards the border and likely too late. Many believed Putin would not invade in a full scale invasion only to be proved wrong this morning.

No doubt a lot more will be going down on this today with it all moving pretty fast.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 24, 2022, 03:41:41 AM
Putin's going about it exactly as I said just hours before hand last night Gaunty. If Putin holds to what he says he's not going to take the whole of Ukraine, it will be as I predicted a puppet government in what remains of Ukraine with them agreeing to Putin's terms. Putin states he is aiming to demilitarise Ukraine so as thought he will hammer Ukraine's military and just leave the new Ukrainian puppet government with whatever remains of the smashed military.

Apparently a number of sites have been hit, military installations and airports including Boryspill International Airport near Kyiv, know it well obviously but no chance of anyone going there now.

Civilians in Kyiv hopped in their cars and piled out of Kyiv moments after Putin's broadcast. Again a complete stompede towards the border and likely too late. Many believed Putin would not invade in a full scale invasion only to be proved wrong this morning.

No doubt a lot more will be going down on this today with it all moving pretty fast.
Nobody’s interested in your BS parroting taken from the Daily Wail and claiming it as your own analysis.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 24, 2022, 03:43:25 AM
Meanwhile, in real news, about 40 UKR casualties near Chernighiv where the Ukrainian army is holding the Russians back.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 04:00:33 AM
A rundown of the full scale invasion so far:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546123/How-Ukraine-invasion-unfolded-minute-minute.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 04:01:43 AM
Nobody’s interested in your BS parroting taken from the Daily Wail and claiming it as your own analysis.

I assure you that wasn't taken from any other source than my own noggin Gaunty.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 04:52:24 AM
Just some more accounts on the full scale Invasion:

BBC News - Ukraine invasion: Kyiv residents seek shelter as blasts hit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60506712

So far it looks like Putin is after Kharkiv with Russian paratroopers dropped there. It's very near the Russian border so very vulnerable. Odessa may have Russian paratroopers dropped there also and seems to be an immediate target also. Russian Tanks have apparently been rolling up from Crimea likely towards Kherson and Separatists in the East launching an all out offensive supported by Russian planes etc. Missiles have apparently been landing everywhere with hundreds dead already.

Our Yankee friends on this forum will no doubt just be waking up to this news in the States and may come as quite a shock to some of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 04:56:51 AM

As I've exemplified in more than one occasion about you, pretty obvious the 'ability to read and comprehend' isn't mutual.


Invasion yet?  >:D


18 people killed in Odesa by missile strikes today


Ukraine being attacked by Russia by land sea and air.


Invasion yet ?  >:D


Putin/Hitler publicly threatens the rest of the World not to intervene in his slaughter of Ukrainians


Another Putin apologist shown up to be totally stupid and gullible. :cluebat:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 05:26:05 AM
Looks like VVP lost his patience.

Ukraine is an undeniable failed state, and arguably a failed society. In some respects it is comparable to the Balkans. The difference now it is Russia putting its foot down and not NATO.

Welcome to the real world. The ability to put impart military might is still trumps BS. Crimea has been part of the Russian Federation for eight years and that's not going to change. The policy of 'unrecognized' buffer states (South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria) has been expanded. This is by and large a direct response to NATO advancement toward Russia's borders.

To the winner takes the spoils. Russia comprehensively won the conflict in 2014. The West still haven't accepted the "L". The best NATO can muster is a dirty conflict in Donbas. The best the US/UK can do is announce further sanctions. The EU can do jack shit as it is reliant on Russian (energy) exports.

The USD/RUB is nearing new highs. Will be interesting to see if resistance is broken and the RUB declines significantly. If it does then RF real estate is looking like a speculative play to me.


Sounds like you're relishing what's happening in Ukraine and cheerleading murderous Putin.


Did you get dumped/rejected by a Ukrainian woman ?


Or maybe you just admire tyrants.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on February 24, 2022, 05:33:29 AM
My wife was able to talk to her family in Lugansk this morning. Their internet is intermittent and slow, but they are able to message each other. They say the army pushed out from Lugansk heading west. The fighting is happening in Ukrainian territory, so they are safe for the moment. This was the only good news, that family is ok.

I have spent a lot of time in Ukraine and I love that country only second to my own. I can only hope that this invasion ends quickly to limit the amount of bloodshed. It hurts to see places that I have been to multiple times with people being killed and injured. I felt the same when the fighting started in 2014.  Seeing the utter destruction of the Donetsk airport where I met my wife in person for the first time made my heart ache.

It still amazes me the depths of depravity that politicians and dictators will go to get what they want. I guess I should stop being surprised by the brutality of the human animal.

I can only hope that the people of Ukraine can survive and live through what is happening. My prayers go out to the people of Ukraine that are being subjected to the stupidity of tin pot dictators.

This is what happens when you have idiots in charge of countries.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 05:37:57 AM
Ukraine reporting 40 of their troops killed and that they've killed 50 Russian troops.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2022, 05:57:29 AM
Well now that it appears Putin is going to go big, it may be that all of Ukraine is going to be his goal.  It seems that trying to occupy a country that size would be terribly difficult without significant support from within.

It seems pretty clear that China is going to support Russia from a financial standpoint.  China has 1.4 billion people, more than all of Europe.   China needs energy and food.  Russia has both.  If we (The US) further agitate, demonize, or try to sanction China I now wouldn't be surprised if they decided to envelope Taiwan once and for all. 

Russia promises severe and unseen consequences for nations that interfere in their dismembering of Ukraine.  One can guess that Putin would be willing to take the fight to a foreign land (US soil, UK soil, etc etc), meaning bombing. Here in the US, we have been insulated for decades from real war, and it seems we want to remain that way.  Russia wouldn't be able to 'win' a large-scale war, but their threats are probably real.   

Looking back at now distant history, the US had created an oil embargo and froze Japanese assets, and Japan retaliated unexpectedly at Pearl Harbor. Trying to use power and influence to hold nations back creates rancor and eventually war.    Nowadays with nuclear weapons floating around, the dynamics have changed, and major war has been off the table due to MAD. 

  China calls for talks on Ukraine, OKs Russian wheat imports


China called Thursday for talks to resolve the Ukraine crisis and avoided criticizing President Vladimir Putin’s attack while, in a step that could blunt the impact of Western sanctions, Beijing also approved imports of Russian wheat.

....Beijing has blamed Washington and its European allies for the conflict over Ukraine.

“All parties should work for peace instead of escalating the tension or hyping up the possibility of war,” Hua said. “Those parties who were busy condemning others, what have they done? Have they persuaded others?"....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/china-calls-talks-over-ukraine-085706369.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/china-calls-talks-over-ukraine-085706369.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 24, 2022, 06:01:23 AM
The only thing that prevents moving RF IMHO is that they still haven't cleaned the whole SAM Ukrainian system.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 06:01:50 AM
My wife was able to talk to her family in Lugansk this morning. Their internet is intermittent and slow, but they are able to message each other. They say the army pushed out from Lugansk heading west. The fighting is happening in Ukrainian territory, so they are safe for the moment. This was the only good news, that family is ok.

I have spent a lot of time in Ukraine and I love that country only second to my own. I can only hope that this invasion ends quickly to limit the amount of bloodshed. It hurts to see places that I have been to multiple times with people being killed and injured. I felt the same when the fighting started in 2014.  Seeing the utter destruction of the Donetsk airport where I met my wife in person for the first time made my heart ache.

It still amazes me the depths of depravity that politicians and dictators will go to get what they want. I guess I should stop being surprised by the brutality of the human animal.

I can only hope that the people of Ukraine can survive and live through what is happening. My prayers go out to the people of Ukraine that are being subjected to the stupidity of tin pot dictators.

This is what happens when you have idiots in charge of countries.


I lost faith in people a long time ago.


NATO in particular and the EU have seriously let down the people of Ukraine.


They held out the hope for full membership for Ukraine for many years without actually letting them join,knowing full well that Mad Vlad was seriously unhappy in the meantime and things could kick-off at anytime.




NATO should hang their heads in shame....all talk no trousers.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on February 24, 2022, 06:20:05 AM

I lost faith in people a long time ago.


NATO in particular and the EU have seriously let down the people of Ukraine.


They held out the hope for full membership for Ukraine for many years without actually letting them join,knowing full well that Mad Vlad was seriously unhappy in the meantime and things could kick-off at anytime.




NATO should hang their heads in shame....all talk no trousers.

That is not a surprise, NATO is all woke pussies like most of the West. Unless they are beating their own population for being a patriot.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 06:45:14 AM




It seems 'blaming' Blair is rampant in your line of thinking..in the US that's called 'passing the buck'. How did Mr. Blair come into such a powerful position again to cause the UK's bloody hand in Afghanistan again?






Following todays events,remind us how Putin came into power and of even more concern how he's stayed in power to cause Russia's bloody hand in Georgia,Syria and now Ukraine.


Are you holding ALL Russians accountable for what's happening in Ukraine right now ?


Or are you going to "pass the buck " ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 07:25:27 AM
Protests in Russia now starting.


A large amount of protestors in Yekaterinburg shouting "No to War ".


Russia really needs to get Mad Vlad out of power one way or another..nothing off the table....as us Brits did with our war criminal Blair...or things are not going to end well for the World.


Mad Vlad has totally lost his mind.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 09:10:26 AM
So the world woke up to the reality Russia had taken a page off the Iraq invasion and launched a massive countrywide invasion of Ukraine. Let me see now..


1. Putin is evil - check.
2. US promised not to advance NATO an inch eastward from Berlin, but reneged on that - check
3. Putin showed his evil ways in Chechnya - check
4. Georgia and Ukraine aspired to become NATO members - evil Putin showed the stupid consequence of that in Georgia - check
5. Ukraine conducted an illegal coup of a internationally recognized and certified presidential (pro-Russian) administration that culminated in a civil war and a territorial military takeover by evil Putin within the Ukrainian sovereignty - check.
6. 8 years later, at the behest of the very same US politicians to again open the potentiality of Ukraine's NATO membership, despite nearly half the European members believing it can't happen, should not happen and a very bad idea. Yet Biden forged ahead and declared Ukraine's NATO membership will not even be included in any negotiation to negate looming military response from Russia as a consequence - check.

7. Now the world witnesses Russia's nationwide demoralizing total invasion of Ukraine - check
8. Full circle. Putin is evil - check

Why would anyone in their right fucking mind, insist on putting its entire population at mortal peril over something that could've been easily avoided, for a membership of a 'club' where half of its members believe/felt they shouldn't be granted such membership - for the simple reason they'd all wake up to what they're waking up on today? and a looming threat of another world war.

Any of you can give me your silly rationale that anyone is entitled to the right to do what it wants, then I grant you to lay witness to what is rationally, predictable reality of that today. The bill always comes due.

The US, and some of its idiotic rabid allies, poked this rabid bear way too much and for way too long. Now it reared its fangs and dare anyone of you to come to his party. 


Next stop: Taiwan/China.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 09:19:50 AM
The only thing that prevents moving RF IMHO is that they still haven't cleaned the whole SAM Ukrainian system.


First things first.


Sever communication system, demoralize and take over all airports (paratroopers have mostly manned airport/field perimeters), man all land and port borders and isolate the country, while taking over its capital and leaders.
Any outside aid, or crusaders ceases.


Anyone who is non-Ukrainian who rallied for this is responsible for putting every Ukrainian in grave peril.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 09:25:39 AM
Got to say expected Russia to go in harder and faster than this. It looks like their strategy is purely centred on choking the enemy - Ukraine, into surrender. If it can encircle the cities and army cut of its routes of supply, namely the sea ports, which it has done and the border then it's only a matter of time before food starts to run out. A city full of millions of people is going to chomp through food pretty quickly, probably within days. The Ukrainian Army will be much the same. At which point capitulation will begin, Pro-Russian Ukrainians will step forward to negotiate surrender and terms of peace treaty, they'll have no choice but to accept and will get lucrative positions in the new government. The people will accept that is the only way out of their situation of starvation and hey ho it's all sorted.

So at least on the tens of thousands killed I may have been wrong though on that I prefer to be it just sounded too terrible.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
Here seems to be the latest:

http://news.sky.com/story/russia-launches-invasion-of-ukraine-forces-trying-to-seize-site-of-chernobyl-nuclear-disaster-12550026

Apparently amphibious landings in Odessa & Mariupol. Kherson has apparently been subjected to fighting those tanks from Crimea no doubt having arrived now. Bet there's some bad Pro-date/Scammer girls probably now wishing they had been decent with their western guys and gone off abroad with them now ;)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2022, 10:06:06 AM
 
So at least on the tens of thousands killed I may have been wrong though on that I prefer to be it just sounded too terrible.

I don't think Russia would want 1,000's dead  Ukrainian or especially Russian. so it does make sense they would first try lower impact.

Fathetime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 11:28:43 AM
I don't think Russia would want 1,000's dead  Ukrainian or especially Russian. so it does make sense they would first try lower impact.

Fathetime!

I agree it's not great for long term stability or in a country's history. Looks to me this is a classic case of regime change just Russia instigating it in Ukraine this time. What are the odds they might place Yanokovich back as President so reversing the situation back in 2014?

Apparently the Russians are trying to get their hands on Chernobyl. I think I vaguely recall it's still functioning as a nuclear power plant despite the accident they had there back in the 80's. No doubt trying to deprive Kyivans of power as well as food, so adding the cold etc to the mix draining their will to go on holding out. Let's hope it doesn't end in another nuclear catastrophe in their attempts to get their hands on it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 11:52:01 AM
I'm surprised other forum members such as 2tallbill & Boe don't have more to say on this Invasion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 11:59:56 AM
For the more matured and studied readers:

An excerpt of a 1998 NYT’s Thomas Friedman’s interview with US Ambassador George Kennan, derived from NYT’s article: “Fumbling on NATO’s Expansion”
A cut from the sessions regarding NATO: (http://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-1998-03-03/html/CREC-1998-03-03-pt1-PgS1283-3.htm)

War veteran: Secretary Cohen, I thought we fought the cold war to change Russia, not to expand NATO. But now that we've changed Russia and should be consolidating that, you want to expand NATO?''


Secretary Cohen: NATO expansion is not directed against Russia. It's meant to secure the new democracies in East Europe.

Heckler: If it's meant to secure democracy in new democracies, isn't the most important new democracy Russia? And why is your P.R. campaign for NATO expansion being funded by U.S. arms sellers, who see NATO expansion as market expansion for their new weapons?

Student: I just got the spring issue of The National Interest magazine. It contains a letter from George Kennan, the architect of America's cold-war containment of the Soviet Union and one of our nation's greatest statesmen. Kennan says NATO expansion is a historic blunder. What do you all know that he doesn't? This is what he said:

Quote from: George Kennan
I think it is the beginning of a new cold war, I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.

This expansion would make the Founding Fathers of this country turn over in their graves. We have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way. [NATO expansion] was simply a light-hearted action by a Senate that has no real interest in foreign affairs.


What bothers me is how superficial and ill informed the whole Senate debate was (Note: Mr. Kennan was present at the creation of NATO and whose anonymous 1947 article in the journal Foreign Affairs, signed ''X,'' defined America's cold-war containment policy for 40 years).

I was particularly bothered by the references to Russia as a country dying to attack Western Europe. Don't people understand? Our differences in the cold war were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime.

And Russia's democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we've just signed up to defend from Russia. It shows so little understanding of Russian history and Soviet history. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are -- but this is just wrong.

[/size]Read: Owen Harries’ ‘The Dangers of Expansive Realism’. Today's reality of that is covered here (http://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/02/ignored-warnings-how-nato-expansion-led-to-the-current-ukraine-tragedy/).
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2022, 12:05:46 PM

NATO in particular and the EU have seriously let down the people of Ukraine.


They held out the hope for full membership for Ukraine for many years without actually letting them join, knowing full well that Mad Vlad was seriously unhappy in the meantime and things could kick-off at anytime.




NATO should hang their heads in shame....all talk no trousers.


That was a MAJOR blunder. They offered UA hopes of joining but no timetable nor conditions. Very stupid.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2022, 12:07:04 PM
That is not a surprise, NATO is all woke pussies like most of the West. Unless they are beating their own population for being a patriot.


You mean, like patriots wiping their asses with the Constitution?  8)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 12:13:45 PM
Looks like Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant has now fallen to Russian troops:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10545389/BREAKING-NEWS-Explosions-heard-Ukraine-port-city-Mariupol.html

They're also trying to gain control of power plants on the Dniper River so it's looking like they are trying to switch of Ukraine. Once that is done and they cut of food supply routes it's only a matter of time I guess. Fierce fighting happening elsewhere as well.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2022, 12:15:55 PM
So the world woke up to the reality Russia had taken a page off the Iraq invasion and launched a massive countrywide invasion of Ukraine. Let me see now..


1. Putin is evil - check.
2. US promised not to advance NATO an inch eastward from Berlin, but reneged on that - check
3. Putin showed his evil ways in Chechnya - check
4. Georgia and Ukraine aspired to become NATO members - evil Putin showed the stupid consequence of that in Georgia - check
5. Ukraine conducted an illegal coup of a internationally recognized and certified presidential (pro-Russian) administration that culminated in a civil war and a territorial military takeover by evil Putin within the Ukrainian sovereignty - check.
6. 8 years later, at the behest of the very same US politicians to again open the potentiality of Ukraine's NATO membership, despite nearly half the European members believing it can't happen, should not happen and a very bad idea. Yet Biden forged ahead and declared Ukraine's NATO membership will not even be included in any negotiation to negate looming military response from Russia as a consequence - check.

7. Now the world witnesses Russia's nationwide demoralizing total invasion of Ukraine - check
8. Full circle. Putin is evil - check

Why would anyone in their right fucking mind, insist on putting its entire population at mortal peril over something that could've been easily avoided, for a membership of a 'club' where half of its members believe/felt they shouldn't be granted such membership - for the simple reason they'd all wake up to what they're waking up on today? and a looming threat of another world war.

Any of you can give me your silly rationale that anyone is entitled to the right to do what it wants, then I grant you to lay witness to what is rationally, predictable reality of that today. The bill always comes due.

The US, and some of its idiotic rabid allies, poked this rabid bear way too much and for way too long. Now it reared its fangs and dare anyone of you to come to his party. 


Next stop: Taiwan/China.


GQ, I know you are a young stud.  8)


Probably, me thinks you missed the middle chapter of the 20th Century history book.


What just happened is more like Czechoslovakia and the Wehrmacht. Please review that chapter. Specifically who was in charge of the armies. Uncanny similarities.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2022, 12:18:11 PM
I don't think Russia would want 1,000's dead  Ukrainian or especially Russian. so it does make sense they would first try lower impact.

Fathetime!


You are absolutely correct.


However, I don't think Putan doesn't give a shit about this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2022, 12:25:58 PM

Sounds like you're relishing what's happening in Ukraine and cheerleading murderous Putin.


Did you get dumped/rejected by a Ukrainian woman ?


Or maybe you just admire tyrants.


I think he is a Julio living in UA.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 12:27:55 PM

GQ, I know you are a young stud.  8)

Probably, me thinks you missed the middle chapter of the 20th Century history book.

What just happened is more like Czechoslovakia and the Wehrmacht. Please review that chapter. Specifically who was in charge of the armies. Uncanny similarities.


Geopolitical history share many similar ambition albeit different players, different times sharing the same result.


But a quick review of the short history of this current tragedy, in the same location, same players and the very same context, should've given everyone a short tutorial of the consequential result what we are waking up to.


Just IMHO. This was overtly warned to all of us a day past reunification of Berlin.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Looks like VVP lost his patience.

Ukraine is an undeniable failed state, and arguably a failed society. In some respects it is comparable to the Balkans. The difference now it is Russia putting its foot down and not NATO.

Welcome to the real world. The ability to put impart military might is still trumps BS. Crimea has been part of the Russian Federation for eight years and that's not going to change. The policy of 'unrecognized' buffer states (South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria) has been expanded. This is by and large a direct response to NATO advancement toward Russia's borders.

To the winner takes the spoils. Russia comprehensively won the conflict in 2014. The West still haven't accepted the "L". The best NATO can muster is a dirty conflict in Donbas. The best the US/UK can do is announce further sanctions. The EU can do jack shit as it is reliant on Russian (energy) exports.

The USD/RUB is nearing new highs. Will be interesting to see if resistance is broken and the RUB declines significantly. If it does then RF real estate is looking like a speculative play to me.


Lost his patience???  For what?  Ukraine was no threat to Russia, and had he removed troops from Donbas, the countries likely would have resumed completely normal relations.  As was, they had diplomatic relations.


The EU can go to other suppliers - the Middle East, Canada, the US (via LG). 


If you think this is about NATO, you're a fool.  It was never about NATO.  Russian children go to bed hearing fairy tales, most of which take place in Kyiv.  For Putin, it's about empire restoration, proving he is very much living in the past.  Personally, I think he has small man/small d energy, and killing thousands of innocents makes him feel powerful in a sick way.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 01:15:05 PM
A cracking exchange rate can be had on the GBP or USD Vs the Russian Ruble or Ukrainian Ghrivna right now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on February 24, 2022, 02:06:46 PM
People are dying on the ground in Ukraine RIGHT FUCKING *NOW*! It is NOT the time for you to be bickering about nonsensical bullshit. Direct your energies to something/anything which might save lives rather than pissing on each other's boots on an internet forum.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 02:10:03 PM
I am curious as to what happens with this market if this conflict becomes a prolonged situation. Will the energy industry determine nations' resolve in this conflict, and for how long?


http://www.gazpromexport.ru/en/statistics/ (http://www.gazpromexport.ru/en/statistics/)


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 24, 2022, 03:14:44 PM
I think it is prime time to give Putin a taste of his own medicine.

Konigsberg historically was never Russian.  It only came into being after WWII.  The Soviet Union took it as a war prize from Germany.  When the Soviet Union fell apart in 1991, the (now NATO) countries surrounding it didn't want it, so Russia claimed it.  (And why didn't Russia throw a fit when NATO surrounded Konigsberg?)

I think we need to see military action and wipe Kaliningrad from the face of the map.  It should not be under Russian control.  It needs returned to its historical owners.  As for the fact that Kaliningrad is the base for the Russian naval fleet...too bad.  As for the fact that Kaliningrad is the center of much of Russian industry...too bad.  Losing Kaliningrad should be the kind of consequences Russia has to deal with for attacking Ukraine without provocation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 03:18:27 PM
I am curious as to what happens with this market if this conflict becomes a prolonged situation. Will the energy industry determine nations' resolve in this conflict, and for how long?


http://www.gazpromexport.ru/en/statistics/ (http://www.gazpromexport.ru/en/statistics/)


Surprised to learn how much Gazprom export of their gas GQ, 78 percent is a hell of a lot for a big company like that. My thoughts are though that when a shortage is created prices rise so depends how long they are out of the European market for I guess. If only for so long they may not lose that much. My guess is that's why Putin has chosen to attack at the end of winter as it's the most lucrative time of the year so rather than a of winter. Plus his troops won't fancy being stuck outside in the depths of winter too long so now once invaded they are heading towards Spring even if that isn't all that warm out there it's no doubt better than winter.

I'm thinking the conflict won't go on long enough for the energy industry to start kicking off about it, it will likely be over in days. I think that will be part the reason that Putin will go for a puppet government in the hope of things calming down afterwards and Europe getting hooked up again to Russian gas.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 24, 2022, 03:33:06 PM
And in some good news, Yahoo is reporting that a Russian platoon laid down their arms and surrendered to Ukrainian forces.  They developed a conscience, and didn't want to kill their Ukrainian brothers.  They said they had not been told they were brought here to kill Ukrainians.

Hopefully more Russian forces will follow suit.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-ambassador-says-russian-platoon-201138508.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 03:41:08 PM
And in some good news, Yahoo is reporting that a Russian platoon laid down their arms and surrendered to Ukrainian forces.  They developed a conscience, and didn't want to kill their Ukrainian brothers.  They said they had not been told they were brought here to kill Ukrainians.

Hopefully more Russian forces will follow suit.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-ambassador-says-russian-platoon-201138508.html

Perhaps they thought they were going there to pull some Ukrainian chicks:

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/8477730/russian-soldiers-tinder-ukraine/amp/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 24, 2022, 03:45:53 PM

Web Sites.  Not sure why Facebook is used...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/02/list-important-ukrainian-websites-regular-updates-including-armed-forces-president-zelensky-cabinet-ministers-defense-ministry-airports/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/02/list-important-ukrainian-websites-regular-updates-including-armed-forces-president-zelensky-cabinet-ministers-defense-ministry-airports/)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 04:02:14 PM
Ukraine is finding out first hand what the EU is really like, what they had hoped to join, an ineffectual bureaucracy that just doesn't care for others just itself and it's interests:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/kyiv-furious-as-eu-wavers-on-banning-russia-from-swift-payment-system
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 04:04:20 PM
I wish Ukraine all the very best! May the bloodshed immediately stop, and destruction be averted.

I also hope hope this movement grows and more Americans wake up to the reality of our world today. NATO is obsolete. Totally disband it.

http://www.liberationnews.org/protest-outside-white-house-demands-no-war-on-russia-disband-nato/ (http://www.liberationnews.org/protest-outside-white-house-demands-no-war-on-russia-disband-nato/)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 04:18:50 PM
I wish Ukraine all the very best! May the bloodshed immediately stop, and destruction be averted.

I also hope hope this movement grows and more Americans wake up to the reality of our world today. NATO is obsolete. Totally disband it.

http://www.liberationnews.org/protest-outside-white-house-demands-no-war-on-russia-disband-nato/ (http://www.liberationnews.org/protest-outside-white-house-demands-no-war-on-russia-disband-nato/)

My fear would be that Putin would then invade the Eastern Bloc nations. I don't think this was ever really so much to do about NATO, that was most likely the pretext for Invasion along with the Donbass. I think this was more about Russia extending its influence. Apparently the Kremlin has said that they have no intention of occupying Ukraine earlier today so I think we are looking at regime change here along with other agreements and of course likely done land annexed by Russia. Russian troops are already moving in on Kiev and about to encircle it as I predicted:

http://www.ft.com/content/5b423554-6ce9-49fe-b74c-da41298b565f#post-88d734c6-53d9-4cad-b1f4-f8f353d74e07

I think Zelensky is already yesterday's man. He has little time left and he is issuing proclamations of a mobilization of the population that will occur within 90 days. There's no way Ukraine will last anywhere near that long, there's days at most. It will probably be pretty much done within 3-4 days from now I reckon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2022, 04:50:35 PM
s. I think this was more about Russia extending its influence.  f8f353d74e07
 
..or at least shunt the US from using its money and clout on this side of the planet to further push Russia into a worse position.

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 24, 2022, 05:00:12 PM
My fear would be that Putin would then invade the Eastern Bloc nations. I don't think this was ever really so much to do about NATO, that was most likely the pretext for Invasion along with the Donbass. I think this was more about Russia extending its influence. Apparently the Kremlin has said that they have no intention of occupying Ukraine earlier today so I think we are looking at regime change here along with other agreements and of course likely done land annexed by Russia. Russian troops are already moving in on Kiev and about to encircle it as I predicted:



Whatever Putin, or any other Russian leader, will or will not do had long come and gone. NATO was formed as a counter to the cold war's Warsaw Pact Alliance. The cold war is over, the soviet regime is gone and the Warsaw Pack Alliance had been long disbanded.


NATO should've been disbanded along with the dissolution of the soviet union. NATO had since only become a beast feeding upon itself and serving but a handful military elitists and uses it to market its arsenal of weapons.


Every European nations should be left alone to attend its own cultural and political direction without any further US engagement. I am sick and tired of the US's recent foreign policies pacifying every corporate greed or of those of the so-called alliance. It's all BS. Europe can look after its own and push their own sons and daughters on the frontline of these silly conflicts.   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 05:35:57 PM


Whatever Putin, or any other Russian leader, will or will not do had long come and gone. NATO was formed as a counter to the cold war's Warsaw Pact Alliance. The cold war is over, the soviet regime is gone and the Warsaw Pack Alliance had been long disbanded.


NATO should've been disbanded along with the dissolution of the soviet union. NATO had since only become a beast feeding upon itself and serving but a handful military elitists and uses it to market its arsenal of weapons.


Every European nations should be left alone to attend its own cultural and political direction without any further US engagement. I am sick and tired of the US's recent foreign policies pacifying every corporate greed or of those of the so-called alliance. It's all BS. Europe can look after its own and push their own sons and daughters on the frontline of these silly conflicts.

In fairness I was arguing back last Summer that the time for NATO may have passed. Really I agree the EU should have stepped up to the plate and organised it's own military defence force. It's on its border this is all happening. I think the AUKUS Alliance we struck last Summer is a better strategic alliance that reflects our relative position. No point like you say in having to fight battles that are not on our doorstep. So I do think that NATO kind of ended up carrying the EU at something they should have been doing. Unfortunately it looks too late now, NATO are going to have to remain so long until (if ever) the ineffectual EU can get it's act together and cobble together an army.

Ever EU member state has an army but the best is probably France. I think Germany need to get over their two lost World Wars and build a strong army again, they'll be crucial if the Russians ever try to push further into Eastern Europe, get some good Nazis on our side lol.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on February 24, 2022, 05:37:02 PM

You mean, like patriots wiping their asses with the Constitution?  8)

Less than the leftists have been doing for the past 50 years.  :deadhorse:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2022, 08:10:16 PM

NATO should've been disbanded along with the dissolution of the soviet union. NATO had since only become a beast feeding upon itself and serving but a handful military elitists and uses it to market its arsenal of weapons.
Having dozens of nations aligning against Russia would make them uncomfortable and rightfully so.  Having nations like the US try to impose it's will so close to Russia must also be aggravating.   

If the US thinks it can force regime change, then Russia may start to feel the same way, and use the same strategies to the extent they can.   First the US will try to starve countries out (Cuba, Venezuela) good examples.  That has been failing, maybe while Russia stomps over Ukraine the US will try to stomp a bit on Venezuela or something.  We (The US) have had the luxury to use finances to ruin a nation, Russia doesn't have that weapon in it's arsenal and takes care of matters differently.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 24, 2022, 08:30:55 PM

This is apparently the jet of the ace Ukraine pilot nicknamed "The Ghost of Kyiv" who downed SIX Russian aircraft during the first day of fighting.
[/size]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjbr6qhGPA
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 11:05:44 PM
Heavy fighting in Sumy taking place.


Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian aircraft over Kiev....they certainly shot something down and it sadly fell into an apartment building.


Russian troops were landed on an airfield by Helicopters just outside Kiev in an attempt at taking over Kiev quickly,but the Ukrainian forces defeated them after regaining the airfield.


Ukraine now has more Stinger Missiles....given by Latvia two days ago...that's what defeated Russia in Afghanistan.





For the Brits among us...Norwich City Hall has lit up in the colours of Ukraine as a display of support for Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 11:38:53 PM
Heavy fighting in Sumy taking place.


Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian aircraft over Kiev....they certainly shot something down and it sadly fell into an apartment building.


Russian troops were landed on an airfield by Helicopters just outside Kiev in an attempt at taking over Kiev quickly,but the Ukrainian forces defeated them after regaining the airfield.


Ukraine now has more Stinger Missiles....given by Latvia two days ago...that's what defeated Russia in Afghanistan.


For the Brits among us...Norwich City Hall has lit up in the colours of Ukraine as a display of support for Ukraine.

Apparently Kyiv has been intercepting missile attacks also. I'm quite surprised Ukraine seems to be doing so well in the air where they were considered weak. Not sure if they are doing as well on the ground yet. I expected a but more heavier air attacks by Russia before they moved in ground troops but Russia seems to be moving in ground troops and relying more on that instead. If those NLAW's work then Ukraine needs to start using them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447

Sumy under attack and Kyiv coming under attack also.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2022, 11:43:28 PM
This is apparently the jet of the ace Ukraine pilot nicknamed "The Ghost of Kyiv" who downed SIX Russian aircraft during the first day of fighting.
[/size]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjbr6qhGPA

If Ukraine really have an Ace jet fighter pilot who did that then that's what they really need at this pressing hour. Difficult to believe that one pilot can shoot down 6 enemy planes especially as Russia is thought to have the much stronger airforce.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2022, 11:49:35 PM
Looks like he's doing a victory fly-past there. :)


By the way Ukraine has better tanks than Russia has..although less of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 12:00:53 AM
Apparently Kyiv has been intercepting missile attacks also. I'm quite surprised Ukraine seems to be doing so well in the air where they were considered weak. Not sure if they are doing as well on the ground yet. I expected a but more heavier air attacks by Russia before they moved in ground troops but Russia seems to be moving in ground troops and relying more on that instead. If those NLAW's work then Ukraine needs to start using them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447)

Sumy under attack and Kyiv coming under attack also.


If Russia's aircraft are indeed being shot down as claimed then Putin will have  to abandon air attacks and rely on his ground troops...carnage awaits them i suspect.


Many people thought this would be a quick battle,but watching the news outlets this morning people are now saying it's going to be a long and bloody war as the Ukrainians are holding their ground and fighting...as i predicted they would.


A former USA Ambassador to Ukraine said this morning that if Ukraine holds off Russia for three months then Russia will be defeated.


Demonstrations all over Russia now in fifty cities against the war,with 2000 arrests yesterday...the Russian people are not with Mad Vlad.


There is a lot of misinformation going on though ...Russia claims Ukrainian forces in Sumy downed their weapons and surrendered....Ukraine claims their troops are holding off the Russian troops...which is true ?


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 12:18:33 AM
Ukrainian flag now being flown over Downing street alongside the Union flag after the building was lit up in Ukraine's colours last night.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 12:33:09 AM
The ghost of Kyiv shot down 2 SU-35's,1 SU-27,1 MIG-29 and 2 SU-25's it's claimed.


Ben Wallace this morning says the Russians have failed to take ANY of their objectives so far.


He confirms Russia has had more than 450 military personnel killed on the first day of fighting.,.with many Tanks,Helicopters and at least three Fighter aircraft lost.


It was Spetznaz special forces...Russia's elite troops..that the Ukrainian troops routed at the airfield near Kiev...as confirmed by Ben Wallace.


Pro-Russians separatists have admitted they're meeting stiff resistance from Ukrainian troops in eastern Ukraine.


There seems to be a groundswell of public opinion,including from our media,that we should be sending troops in to support Ukraine....unlike in previous wars when we HAVE sent troops in.


No doubt the bravery and calmness of the Ukrainian people coming onto our news channels and talking is garnering UK public support for us sending troops in.


Brits don't like being threatened either...as Putin did yesterday


Ben Wallace looked flustered when pushed by the BBC this morning about putting our boots on the ground,whilst saying it won't happen.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on February 25, 2022, 03:44:23 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

This is a reddit sub forum...... Warning!! It has very graphic footage that you won’t see in main stream media.....  The most shocking personally isn’t the most graphic, but if true constitutes a war crime..... A Russian tank deviates from its course to target and drive over top of a moving civilian car.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2022, 05:11:17 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

This is a reddit sub forum...... Warning!! It has very graphic footage that you won’t see in main stream media.....  The most shocking personally isn’t the most graphic, but if true constitutes a war crime..... A Russian tank deviates from its course to target and drive over top of a moving civilian car.

That's interesting to see how things are shaping up on the ground Davo, helps to fill out the picture a but more from the news networks. Looks like both sides are suffering casualties, the Ukrainian casualties were expected but the Russian casualties unexpected. For the looks of things Russia has been losing armour and tanks, about 30 tanks so far apparently and it's still early days, many artillery loses too. Looks to be that the Russians are going about the invasion in a clumsy manner by using the old skool method of trying to take over towns and cities on the ground and going directly in. To my mind they would have been better of encircling them from a distance and cutting them off.

Russian troops have entered the northern suburbs of Kiev again using the same ham handed approach. It looks like as a result it's turning into a longer and bloodier affair. In the video on that Reddit forum the signs of devastation of shelled out buildings can clearly be seen. If it carries on at that rate Ukraine will be a shelled out mess within a few days. Potentially this could turn into a drawn out affair grinding down the Russians but wreaking havoc on Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 05:44:00 AM
That's interesting to see how things are shaping up on the ground Davo, helps to fill out the picture a but more from the news networks. Looks like both sides are suffering casualties, the Ukrainian casualties were expected but the Russian casualties unexpected. For the looks of things Russia has been losing armour and tanks, about 30 tanks so far apparently and it's still early days, many artillery loses too. Looks to be that the Russians are going about the invasion in a clumsy manner by using the old skool method of trying to take over towns and cities on the ground and going directly in. To my mind they would have been better of encircling them from a distance and cutting them off.

Russian troops have entered the northern suburbs of Kiev again using the same ham handed approach. It looks like as a result it's turning into a longer and bloodier affair. In the video on that Reddit forum the signs of devastation of shelled out buildings can clearly be seen. If it carries on at that rate Ukraine will be a shelled out mess within a few days. Potentially this could turn into a drawn out affair grinding down the Russians but wreaking havoc on Ukraine.


Ham-handed is the right word.


There's never been anything smart or sophisticated about Russia at war.


"Bash and smash "like a load of Cavemen, is their method of operation.


The 2000 protesters in Russia arrested yesterday have been charged with treason.


They'll probably be sent to the salt mines in Siberia by Mad Vlad.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 05:57:46 AM
Good news the EU is now going to freeze the assets of Mad Vlad and his henchman Lavrov in Europe. :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 25, 2022, 06:21:04 AM

More good sites:
http://u24.ua/
http://fakty.com.ua/ua/

The occupier suffers significant losses. The headquarters of the Ground Forces of Ukraine reported new data on the number of dead invaders who invaded the territory of Ukraine on February 24. As reported on the Facebook page of the headquarters, this figure is already more than a thousand (http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/takih-poter-u-rf-eshche-ne-bylo-vsu-nazvali-kolichestvo-pogibshih-okkupantov-1605264.html) .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 25, 2022, 06:39:11 AM
The Talibans are now calling for seizure of hostilities and maintain peace with Ukraine and Russia. They are very concerned for civilian lives.  :o

http://www.newsweek.com/taliban-calls-russia-ukraine-peace-fear-civilians-afghanistan-1682616?amp=1

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 25, 2022, 06:40:12 AM
For the moment the full-scale invasion hasn't started yet.
This is just a special operation.
But as Ukraine resists more casualties and destruction will come.
Urban warfare will push more civilians into the casualties column and will force RF to bring more military power into action.
Consequently more losses... Loop.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 25, 2022, 06:40:56 AM
The Talibans are now calling for seizure of hostilities and maintain peace with Ukraine and Russia. They are very concerned for civilian lives.  :o

http://www.newsweek.com/taliban-calls-russia-ukraine-peace-fear-civilians-afghanistan-1682616?amp=1 (http://www.newsweek.com/taliban-calls-russia-ukraine-peace-fear-civilians-afghanistan-1682616?amp=1)

Incredible!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 25, 2022, 07:00:39 AM
One of the funnier cartoons I've seen. 
I'm going to have to try greeting clients in that position at my shop.
I wouldn't recommend it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 25, 2022, 07:04:23 AM
The Talibans are now calling for seizure of hostilities and maintain peace with Ukraine and Russia. They are very concerned for civilian lives.
Isn't a seizure when someone falls down and starts shaking and stuff?   
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 07:05:37 AM
Some robotic bloke from the Russian military just said Russian troops took that airfield outside Kiev yesterday ,killing 200 Ukrainian troops and suffering no casualties.


I find those figures highly unlikely and the Russians have shown themselves to be liars.


Both countries can be frugal with the truth...so who knows what is true and what is false.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 25, 2022, 07:22:01 AM
Isn't a seizure when someone falls down and starts shaking and stuff?


Yes it is. Whacha expect, it’s 5 AM and haven’t had my smoothie. :P

Hillary Clinton had come out blaming Trump for the current fate of Ukraine. Now, that’s what I call an alternate reality.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 07:25:20 AM
I very much doubt that Putin would have invaded Ukraine if Trump was still President of the USA.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 07:51:28 AM
That short video of the "ghost of Kyiv " has been shown to be false by the BBC.


A lot of the video's out there of the war in Ukraine are false,although the one of the Russian tank deliberately crushing the car with the motorist still inside was true.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 25, 2022, 08:04:58 AM
Good news the EU is now going to freeze the assets of Mad Vlad and his henchman Lavrov in Europe. :)
I'm not sure if what you stated is accurate, but I would say that isn't good news.    We (The US) started freezing Japanese assets prior to pearl harbor.  Japan considered it an act of war. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 25, 2022, 08:09:20 AM
Less than the leftists have been doing for the past 50 years.  :deadhorse:


Last reply on this:


It must be eating your insides that these "leftists" are the only ones fighting to preserve the constitution and democracy.  8)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 08:34:41 AM
I'm not sure if what you stated is accurate, but I would say that isn't good news.    We (The US) started freezing Japanese assets prior to pearl harbor.  Japan considered it an act of war. 

Fathertime!


Just been confirmed on the BBC.


It's also in the Financial Times and Forbes.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2022, 08:40:55 AM
Apparently, the battle to gain control of Kiev by the Ruskies may well go down like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10551463/Russian-plan-Kyiv-revealed-intelligence.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 25, 2022, 08:57:05 AM
Russian prisoner in Kharkiv confessing commander ordered to shoot civilians.


http://www.facebook.com/1001283403/videos/657971581973233/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 25, 2022, 09:24:00 AM
Unfortunately, the US these days have but a few, reliable journalists for the public to get unvarnished reliable news and reports. Hell, even social media driven by the big tech are highly unreliable.


So if any of the news outlet/s outside of the US have current reports about any NATO ally (aside from the US of course) had actually, or is beginning to, sent their nation's young further into eastern Europe to reinforce member nations closest to the hostilities. Do oblige.


For the life of me. all that's reported here in the US is sleepy Joe sending thousands of US troops to eastern Europe, but I don't see reports of France, Belgium, the UK, doing the same. I know a month or so ago, the UK did consider sending maybe a hundred, but that was before the invasion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 25, 2022, 09:43:47 AM
So the alliance, after months of declaring there will be serious and severe economic sanction will be levied upon Russia if it ever invade Ukraine, most notably - depriving Russia from usage of SWIFT.


Now that the chicken had come to roost, it's evident that was merely a giant bluff. Germany and Belgium would much prefer preserving their nation's economic state than to administer their loyalty to the 'unity of an alliance'.


Interesting. Money still trumps integrity.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 25, 2022, 10:34:27 AM
So the alliance, after months of declaring there will be serious and severe economic sanction will be levied upon Russia if it ever invade Ukraine, most notably - depriving Russia from usage of SWIFT.


Now that the chicken had come to roost, it's evident that was merely a giant bluff. Germany and Belgium would much prefer preserving their nation's economic state than to administer their loyalty to the 'unity of an alliance'.


Interesting. Money still trumps integrity.


SWIFT is a lot more to that. All nations (about 11,000 financial institutions) rely on SWIFT.  In addition, SWIFT is NOT governed by anyone, it is an agreement between institutions.


Let's say that the majority of these institutions agree to deny Russia, which they can't. Russia has their own version of SWIFT, albeit not that efficient (for many reasons.) This would strengthen Russia's SWIFT which would undermine the West's ability to do finance. Not a good thing. Except for those who would love to see this country go to hell. And I'm not talking about the Russians or Chinese.  :P
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 25, 2022, 10:42:35 AM
http://fb.watch/boPDzznZ5a/ (http://fb.watch/boPDzznZ5a/)  (Warning: very graphic)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 25, 2022, 11:01:29 AM

SWIFT is a lot more to that. All nations (about 11,000 financial institutions) rely on SWIFT.  In addition, SWIFT is NOT governed by anyone, it is an agreement between institutions.


Let's say that the majority of these institutions agree to deny Russia, which they can't. Russia has their own version of SWIFT, albeit not that efficient (for many reasons.) This would strengthen Russia's SWIFT which would undermine the West's ability to do finance. Not a good thing. Except for those who would love to see this country go to hell. And I'm not talking about the Russians or Chinese.  :P


Then one wonders why even table this as a major part of their planned sanctioning tool? Report had it that Germany stood to lose as much as 150 Billion dollars if they did in fact complied to it. Sleepy Joe yesterday, when asked why, simply said 'we we're asked not to include this as part of the package (sanction)'. Did they not realize the fallacy using this as a threat against Russia?
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on February 25, 2022, 12:20:59 PM
Why don't you ask that at your next WH intelligence briefing?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 25, 2022, 12:25:20 PM
Why don't you ask that at your next WH intelligence briefing?


Well I thought this was a reason you rode along as a call for cavalry?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2022, 01:00:21 PM
Update so far:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10550799/Ukraine-hits-airfield-Russia-missile-strike-blow-Putin-downing-six-helicopters.html

Looks like Putin's troops are sustaining a lot of losses. Ukraine some as well but it looks like Russia moreso. Apparently Russian troops are in a Kyivian suburb five miles north of the city centre. Whether the Russian advance will ground to a halt before it reaches the city centre who knows but they seem to be making slow progress. Many Russian helicopters and planes shot down and many Russian tanks destroyed with the anti tank rocket launchers the US & UK gave them.

All in all I kind of expected the Russian forces to go about it differently than this. They knew the Ukrainians had been given anti tank stuff yet they thrust all of their tanks and artillery in the line of fire when to my mind they should have thrown all their air power at them first then encircled the cities and cut of supply routes. To my mind there just doesn't seem any real thought or much planning at all by the Russians they just seem to think they can overpower the Ukrainians by brute force. I'm just not sure what the Russians are doing with all of their army whether they are throwing all they've got against the Ukrainians. If the Ukrainians can keep holding out against the Russians then who knows.

At least it's good to see the equipment we gave them paying off, if they can grind the Russians down enough it might be enough to put the Russians off.

Putin meanwhile is trying to get the Ukrainian military to overthrow Zelensky. Whether this is his signal to those within Ukraine that are willing to work with the Russians to jump into action or just desperation who knows, we'll find out soon I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 25, 2022, 01:25:31 PM
they ran out of fuel...
http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/ukraina-otstoyala-konotop-okkupant-pones-sokrushitelnye-poteri-1605362.html (http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/ukraina-otstoyala-konotop-okkupant-pones-sokrushitelnye-poteri-1605362.html)

NATO to supply air defense systems
http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/nato-soglasheniya-s-rossiey-bolshe-ne-rabotayut-ukraine-predostavim-sistemy-pvo-1605360.html (http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/nato-soglasheniya-s-rossiey-bolshe-ne-rabotayut-ukraine-predostavim-sistemy-pvo-1605360.html)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2022, 03:40:12 PM



Sky news interviewing Russians in Moscow tonight ..and they're saying for the first time in their lives they feel ashamed to be Russian..except for one old bat who said the reporter was lying about Kiev and Kharkiv being bombed by Russia.


Once again Mad Vlad pleading with the Ukrainian troops to turn on their drug-taking neo Nazi  :rolleyes:  President...the response was injured Ukrainian troops in hospitals saying they're going to get  out of their beds to fight the Russians again.


Russia has so far failed to take any major Ukraine cities.





Interestingly China didn't support Russia in the UN Security Council vote just now...seems they could be turning their back on Mad Vlad.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2022, 05:33:38 PM
Kyivians bracing themselves for an all out assault on their Capital tonight by Russian troops. They've basically got to throw the lot at them and hope they can hold the Russians off from reaching the city centre and taking Kyiv. If they can do that then there's a chance they can hold them off for quite some time. We'll see later in the morning how it went.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 25, 2022, 05:56:12 PM
Kyivians bracing themselves for an all out assault on their Capital tonight by Russian troops. They've basically got to throw the lot at them and hope they can hold the Russians off from reaching the city centre and taking Kyiv. If they can do that then there's a chance they can hold them off for quite some time. We'll see later in the morning how it went.
I don't see a circumstance where Russia doesn't get what they want.  They will just ramp up further and further to whatever point is necessary to reach their goal.   If that is the case, life is going to become worse and worse for the Ukrainians that do battle.   
Another speculation is the harder they have to work and lose lives, the more they are going to decide ultimately take.    I don't know what their end game is at this point. 

My neighbor came up to me today with a solution, he said the US should give Russia 12 hours to surrender or we carpet bomb all their troops.  I just listened and thought to myself I'm glad he isn't in charge. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2022, 06:18:56 PM
I don't see a circumstance where Russia doesn't get what they want.  They will just ramp up further and further to whatever point is necessary to reach their goal.   If that is the case, life is going to become worse and worse for the Ukrainians that do battle.   
Another speculation is the harder they have to work and lose lives, the more they are going to decide ultimately take.    I don't know what their end game is at this point. 

My neighbor came up to me today with a solution, he said the US should give Russia 12 hours to surrender or we carpet bomb all their troops.  I just listened and thought to myself I'm glad he isn't in charge. 

Fathertime!

I think you're right on all of that FT, Russia can keep pulling troops and sending them to the Ukrainian front, they can call up conscripts although I doubt how willing and like you say if it ends up a bloody tough long fight then Russia will want to take more as a result. Only possible upside is possible Russia is using its best forces on this and leaving the rest behind on guard duty until needing to be brought to the Ukrainian Front. That would make sense and historically how the Russian Army has been composed back to WWI at least, some good troops then a lot who aren't but they bulk out the Russian Army in numbers to make it look impressive statistically. If sone of their best troops are having a hard time if it and losses are mounting then their not so good troops are likely to fair even worse.

The Ukrainians still no doubt have a lot of Russian troops to chew through but on the plus side they haven't been taking greater losses particularly as it seems so they can afford to fight on longer. If Ukraine gets shelled out bad then Russia may not wish to take so much of it on that front. I think that potentially if Ukraine can keep fighting the way they have been and keep it up long term then Russia will start to strain under the weight of it all and they'll look to quit/get rid of Putin. The way this is going Ukraine could quite easily end up the new Lebanon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 25, 2022, 08:13:24 PM
We have been texted with relatives in Kyiv.  Internet and electricity are intermittent.  Our relatives live in  what is considered central Kyiv, though not in our understanding of the centre, it's about 15 minutes from Khreshchatyk.  The live between an airport and a rail centre.  There has been bombing and shooting.  The air is filled with smoke, and the shooting has been going on for over a day.  Children in the building are crying.  They've been told to stay indoors, and keep lights off.  It's very bad.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 25, 2022, 08:29:15 PM
Wife owns two condominium (called apartments there) units in Kyiv.
One rented out and other occupied by a relative family.

Relative woman and children have gone further west to stay with grandparents.

Relative man has joined volunteer Ukrainian army and will bear the brunt of Russian attack from Belarus.

Two of wife's friends here are from Romania and they have told that their families in Romania will take in her family if they want to come over there.

Quite great of them, but no immediate plans to take them up on that offer.

Apparently it takes a couple of days to get through the border anyway.

If her condo units are destroyed, that will be around 650K USD.

Maybe the most expensive one will be spared as it's in second building  away from US Embassy.  Don't think Putin will want to hit it; but anything can happen (falling aircraft), etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 02:17:02 AM
The former world heavy weight champion Vitali Klitschko,now Mayor of Kyiv, has said there are no Russian troops in Kiev and that Russian troops tried to enter Kiev last night and were "neutralised".


Many Ukrainian men who've been living outside Ukraine are now driving back to Ukraine to fight the invading Russians.


Big protests against Putin taking place all around the World.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 26, 2022, 03:31:14 AM
An attack in Kharkiv has been repelled, RF didn't enter the city.
Dnipro has not suffered from attack in the west part.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2022, 04:31:49 AM
Woke up this morning to see that Kiev had survived the night and repelled Russian attempts to further enter the city. One of the more modern looking apartment blocks looking the worse for wear though with part of its midsection blown out. If things keep up like this Kyiv will soon be looking like Beirut, all they would need is for Kate Adie to put in a long overdue appearance.

Looks like Putin is now threatening Finland & Sweden. Putin seems to have gotten very arrogant no doubt after getting his way in Russia all these years by crushing dissent. If I were Finland & Sweden I would put in an application to join NATO today and stick their finger up to Putin. Putin is nothing more than a bully boy who thinks he can push everyone around.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553723/Putin-turns-attention-Finland-Sweden-Kremlin-official-warns-nations.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 26, 2022, 06:22:39 AM

Putin running out of missiles?

"Putin is fierce. He was sure that it would be an easy walk. There are not enough missiles. Enough for three or four days - the ceiling. They are protected. There are no weapons. The Tula plant and the other two plants of (oligarch) Rotenberg cannot fulfill orders for weapons. Rifles and bullets. Physically. There are not enough weapons. The next weapon can really be received in three or four months. And then there are no raw materials. Previously, supplies were from Slovenia mainly, Finland and Germany. They are now blocked , " says Goncharenko.

http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/putin-lyutuet-u-rf-zakanchivayutsya-rakety-i-oruzhie-1605445.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 08:40:44 AM
27 countries,including the USA and UK have agreed to send more military aid,including lethal weapons, to Ukraine,including Germany who are sending 400 RPG's.








 
A couple of human stories : An attractive blond lady lawyer in her thirties in Kiev has armed herself with the full intension of killing Russian troops.
The newscasters "Aren't you afraid "?
Her " It's not important how my story ends..what's important is that Ukraine is a free country ".


A young Ukrainian lady living in the UK has just received a phone call from her Afghan veteran father to tell her that he's got her mother and  sister to the Polish border and they're safe.


Him " Now i go back to Kiev "


Her " Why "?


Him " To fight the invading Russian troops "


Her " But dad you're 61 and you can barely walk..how can you fight "?


Him " Then i'll crawl and fight "


The girl then breaks down in tears ,while the newscasters are in bits :'(
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 26, 2022, 09:14:04 AM
You're fired!
http://world.segodnya.ua/world/russia/provalil-vtorzhenie-putin-snyal-nachalnika-genshtaba-nardep-1605502.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 09:55:58 AM
Riho Terras the former Estonian Defence Chief has received intel from a Ukrainian Officer about a meeting in Putin's lair in the Urals.Oligarch's convened there so no one would flee.


Putin is furious .he thought that the whole war would be easy and everything would be done in 1-4 days.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 10:12:39 AM
Massive queues in Kiev now ,lining up for AK47's,including loads of hotties.


Sky talked to one of the blond hotties who's from Dnipro.


"At first we were scared but now we want to fight....fight like hell " she said.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2022, 12:03:00 PM
Zelensky wants Ukraine to join the EU immediately and for the EU to cut Russia off on the Swift payment system but gets VETOED on both. Joining the EU I can understand since an attack on one is considered an attack on all so would push the EU into war, plus Ukraine's economy is now way too messed up for the EU to take them on especially with the EU's current economic woes.

The Swift payment system I think the EU are dead wrong to Veto at least those member states that did. As the Latvian PM rightly said some people are concerned about losing a bit of their money while other people are losing their lives. Tend to find that in these situations I think that while some people are sacrificing their lives other people are ignorant to that and don't want to help out in the slightest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10554837/President-Zelensky-pushes-Ukraine-join-EU-day-Russian-invasion.html

UK & the PM are right behind Ukraine and Boris backs a ban on Swift payments for Russia and rightly so.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2022, 01:23:06 PM
Massive queues in Kiev now ,lining up for AK47's,including loads of hotties.


Sky talked to one of the blond hotties who's from Dnipro.


"At first we were scared but now we want to fight....fight like hell " she said.

My suspicion is that these hotties may just be using it to pose for their instawhore pics, lol.

Seriously though I doubt if any will end up on the front line, they'll probably be assigned behind the lines sentry duty stuff where they can pose it up some more.

From the reports the gun shops are doing a brisk trade with queuing out the door. That's those who can get their hands on a free one I guess. Arms dealers no doubt cleaning up from all of this.

With the main bulk of Russia's army now approaching Kiev it looks like it's going to amount to a fierce show down. I think many Kyivians have been buoyed on by seeing that the Russian Army can be stopped and now many people are joining in on the fight. That gives Ukraine a good fighting chance of survival. If they can grind the Russian advance to a halt, bog it down and demoralise it by robbing Putin of a quick victory then I think a lot of heart will go out of the Russian occupiers.

Taking out as much of Russia's Armour, Artillery and Airforce will degrade their ability a lot and that's where Russia could end up bogged down in a war where it ends up losing any chance of advancing. Next few days could see some real heavy fighting in Ukraine I reckon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2022, 02:29:06 PM
This report from Mariupol of Ukrainian Soldiers gives a good account of the realities of war I think. Doesn't look like any amputees here but some quiet badly injured and of course that can happen:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-horrific-day-at-hospital-treating-injured-soldiers-in-mariupol-as-doctors-appeal-for-more-nato-help-12551535

I recall a while back, a few years ago that one poster here told us about a Ukrainian guy who lost a leg in the conflict in the East of Ukraine. He ended up unemployed and homeless with little in the way of economic support from the Ukrainian State. It's why I think decisions on what to do by those in Ukraine need to be considered carefully as joining to fight can have bad consequences for the individual, that said I think a lot of Ukrainians are going to have to stand up and fight if they are going to win this one. Ukrainians all cowering in basements, apartments or fleeing for the border isn't going to win it fir them.

The Ukrainian Soldiers in the video seemed to be thinking that they can't hold out much longer, a few more days or so. They're calling on NATO, the EU etc that they hoped to join but didn't to come to their aid. I personally don't believe either made any promises or commitments. I personally think it was Ukrainians who set themselves on a path to join without first making sure they had anything solid from either that they could join, a timeframe, etc. I believe that Ukraine put too much stock in joining either or both of these organisations without much to go on and that was the fault of the Ukrainian government on their part. I don't know about other Forum members but while I support Ukraine's cause I don't believe we should get directly involved as it really is their fight rather than ours. I think we should stand with Ukraine in supplying weapons, aid and sanctions but it really is down to them at the end of the day for as many of them as feel they wish to, to take up arms and fight their fight.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 26, 2022, 03:04:20 PM
My suspicion is that these hotties may just be using it to pose for their instawhore pics, lol.

Seriously though I doubt if any will end up on the front line, they'll probably be assigned behind the lines sentry duty stuff where they can pose it up some more.

Or they might be the next
Lyudmila Pavlichenko.

Ukrainian women aren't exactly wall flowers TC.
If the makeup and high heels throws you ,remember those can change in less than a few minutes.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2022, 03:33:32 PM
Or they might be the next
Lyudmila Pavlichenko.

Ukrainian women aren't exactly wall flowers TC.
If the makeup and high heels throws you ,remember those can change in less than a few minutes.

While not all Ukrainian girls are pretty I think there are a higher than average amount of them are compared to the UK. Now don't get me wrong UK girls would pull the same stunt posing for their Instagram page in military fatigues then either end up in a passive role or scarper, so much for gender equality lol.

In any case at the moment I think those board members who have Russian partners are in hiding from this board, maybe we should ask Dan if he can rename this forum Ukrainian Women Discussion instead ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 03:49:21 PM


In any case at the moment I think those board members who have Russian partners are in hiding from this board, maybe we should ask Dan if he can rename this forum Ukrainian Women Discussion instead ;D


GQBlues is still posting..so not all the board members with Russian partners are in hiding.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 03:51:24 PM
Zelensky wants Ukraine to join the EU immediately and for the EU to cut Russia off on the Swift payment system but gets VETOED on both. Joining the EU I can understand since an attack on one is considered an attack on all so would push the EU into war, plus Ukraine's economy is now way too messed up for the EU to take them on especially with the EU's current economic woes.

The Swift payment system I think the EU are dead wrong to Veto at least those member states that did. As the Latvian PM rightly said some people are concerned about losing a bit of their money while other people are losing their lives. Tend to find that in these situations I think that while some people are sacrificing their lives other people are ignorant to that and don't want to help out in the slightest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10554837/President-Zelensky-pushes-Ukraine-join-EU-day-Russian-invasion.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10554837/President-Zelensky-pushes-Ukraine-join-EU-day-Russian-invasion.html)

UK & the PM are right behind Ukraine and Boris backs a ban on Swift payments for Russia and rightly so.


The EU.UK,USA and Canada are now stopping selected Russian Banks from using SWIFT.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 26, 2022, 04:00:38 PM
Well,my point was not about relative appearances,it was that the women from Ukraine specifically have stood out in the past in times of war in combat roles.
Back when in the west it was not even permitted.
To think that some today within the crucible of war wouldn't be up to the task because they are attractive is funny thinking.
They have as much to lose as anyone there and their past shows a willingness and ability to fight well.

 Out of millions of UW, recruit  614 Lyudmilas and you just took out 190,000 oppostion forces ..
While completely unrealistic to actually occur ,let her skill and courage under fire in two of the worlds more  bloody battles sink in.





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2022, 04:08:59 PM
While not all Ukrainian girls are pretty I think there are a higher than average amount of them are compared to the UK.



I'd dispute that.


I've only visited Kiev and i wasn't overly impressed with the beauty of the women there during the daytime...you'd see far more beauties in London walking round during the day.


Granted i didn't see any fat young women like you see here in Britain..but seriously only a couple of women caught my eye as stunners in the three days i was there.


I remember a forum member on here or another forum had the same issue in Odessa..he plaintively asked  "where are all the hotties i keep hearing about" ?


That Ukrainian Anastasia date blonde girl who was scamming the black guy on 90 Day Fiance is a typical example...when i first saw her instagram photo's and the video she sent him on his phone my first reaction was ..she's hot.


But then when i saw her in a coffee shop with two of her friends in a later episode ..without all her war paint on..i thought naahhh i don't fancy any of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 26, 2022, 05:06:51 PM

I'd dispute that.


I've only visited Kiev and i wasn't overly impressed with the beauty of the women there during the daytime...you'd see far more beauties in London walking round during the day.


Granted i didn't see any fat young women like you see here in Britain..but seriously only a couple of women caught my eye as stunners in the three days i was there.


I remember a forum member on here or another forum had the same issue in Odessa..he plaintively asked  "where are all the hotties i keep hearing about" ?


That Ukrainian Anastasia date blonde girl who was scamming the black guy on 90 Day Fiance is a typical example...when i first saw her instagram photo's and the video she sent him on his phone my first reaction was ..she's hot.


But then when i saw her in a coffee shop with two of her friends in a later episode ..without all her war paint on..i thought naahhh i don't fancy any of them.
Most of them are in expansive SUV or have already moved out. So you don't see them in the streets. Or they go some expensive restaurants or sports clubs you have barely any chance to know.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 26, 2022, 05:42:47 PM
Wife tells that Ukraine has started a new tactic to try to get through to the Russian people what the Russian army is doing in Ukraine.

Captured Russian soldiers are forced to make video call to their parents in Russia and tell them that they are in Ukraine and have been captured.

Parents are stunned in that they say they didn't know their son was there and even that Russia was attacking Ukraine.

Let's hope these parents can spread the word.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 26, 2022, 05:45:33 PM
Apparently there are growing protests in Russia about the invasion of Ukraine.

Let's hope these stories are true.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 26, 2022, 05:48:46 PM
Where is the Russian version of  Claus von Stauffenberg now that he/she is needed ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2022, 06:04:32 PM
Apparently there are growing protests in Russia about the invasion of Ukraine.

Let's hope these stories are true.


I read that all protests are banned.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on February 26, 2022, 06:06:23 PM
Where is the Russian version of  Claus von Stauffenberg now that he/she is needed ?


We can only hope!!!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2022, 06:23:44 PM

GQBlues is still posting..so not all the board members with Russian partners are in hiding.

GQ you need to go into hiding ;)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 26, 2022, 06:37:36 PM

I read that all protests are banned.

Well sure, but they are happening.
420 arrested in Moscow today.
Question is:  Just how much they will grow.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2022, 07:22:45 PM
I don't think they will unless a significant number of Russian soldiers start coming home in body bags.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 26, 2022, 08:56:53 PM
GQ you need to go into hiding ;)

Hiding?!?  Wifey and I went along with friends and stood4Ukraine at a rally along Sta Monica Blvd. in West Hollywood today. It was a darn cold 68 degrees today too. I’d hazard to guess half of the people there are actually Russian. WHolly is a very strong FSU community in LA.

Part of me is so glad the Ukrainians are holding back the assault, but I pray this doesn’t cause madVlad to give the order to go on seek and destroy anything and everything. Hard to say it, but I think Zelensky is a dead man walking. I hope not, but much respect whether he lives or dies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 26, 2022, 09:08:46 PM
68F,  brrrrr
Ok.i needed a laugh today, thanks
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 26, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
I had never heard of this guy Smerconish before, but apparently he asks the 'question of the day' on his program.
A friend sent me this about his question today.
- - - - - - - - -
This morning (Sat 2/26) Smerconish's poll question was: 
"Should NATO go to war for Ukraine?"   
The results were jaw-dropping. 
Over 38,000 responses (usually he gets <half of that) with 77% saying yes and 23% no! 
Smerconish was gob-smacked that a CNN audience would react that way. 
Given the demonstrations in Russia, much less around the world, it looks like a lose/lose situation for Putin.  He could well end up like Saddam and Khadafy.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 26, 2022, 10:19:05 PM
I don't think they will unless a significant number of Russian soldiers start coming home in body bags.

Figuratively, or literally? You are aware that Russia sent a mobile crematory to Ukraine, right?  No need for body bags anymore.  If the families are lucky, they will get the ashes of their sons.

I still think we should give Putin a taste of his own medicine.

We should cancel every Russian, Belorussian, and Chechnyan student visa, and give them 24 hours to leave the US or be arrested and put in one of the ICE concentration camps for illegal immigrants.  They should also be banned from coming back to the US for 3-5 years.  This destroys the possibility of getting a US education.
Anyone with Russian/Belorussian/Chechnyan citizenship should have their visa revoked and immediately deported.

The vast majority of the Russians in US universities are kids of the elites.  How many Russian businessmen are in the US?  Putin wants regime change?  You don't think all those kids and businessmen will be pissed about getting kicked out of the US because of Putin invading Ukraine and starting a war?

Putin says Ukraine was historically Russian.  It got created by WWII.  What about Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad?  It was formerly German, and the USSR got it as a war prize.  When the Soviet Union fell apart in '91, Russia got to keep Kaliningrad, because neither Lithuania or Poland claimed it.  (Kaliningrad is surrounded by NATO - so much for Putin's claim of keeping NATO from Russia's borders.)  Kaliningrad is home to the naval fleet, and is the center of Russian industry.  It also houses nuclear weapons that threaten Europe.  NATO should have a mass attack on Kaliningrad, and wipe it off the map.  Let Putin lose his naval base and Kaliningrad, and see if he doesn't change his tune on Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2022, 10:41:45 PM
68F,  brrrrr
Ok.i needed a laugh today, thanks

Yes, :ROFL: .   When hubby first saw this, after his first full winter here, he was shocked.  We lived near the university, and all the Canadian students were in t-shirts and shorts at 0C.  Now, he doesn't bat an eye.


It was -3C or 26F here today.  Young people were out in t shirts and shorts.

Figuratively, or literally?

I meant figuratively.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 26, 2022, 10:55:53 PM
I don’t even know why these guys are fighting (Russian / Ukrainian ). Even in the heat of war, they seem so casual with each other.

Funny, in a strange kind of way.

http://youtu.be/14gVDF2b1vA
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on February 26, 2022, 10:58:59 PM
Written in January of this year, this article seems prescient at this point in time .... http://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 12:21:16 AM
I don't think it would be a good idea for NATO to get involved, it would risk spreading the conflict and NATO possibly having to go onto Russian lands. Then we would be the invader and it could legitimize mad Vlad's claim of the threat of NATO. In addition there would be a string risk of nuclear war and/or hyperthermal missiles being used by Russia.

The situation is best kept as it is localised to Ukraine. If Russia's troops get worn down and defeated there then that will likely bhave consequences for Putin & Russia. It will be seen as a fair cop and Russia will have to come to terms with Ukraine. It's a better position I think for Ukraine to go at it with Russia as after all they are the ones Putin has a beef with. Strategically it's better for us to supply Ukraine with weapons and all it needs to do the fighting. Even if they eventually lose if they put up a string enough fight it will degrade the Russian military and dissuade Russia from further conflicts elsewhere, that depends on the Ukrainians putting up stiff resistance for quite some time though. It really is their fight to my mind I don't buy it that other countries in Europe are next, Georgia & the Stans maybe. In Europe there is NATO and France and the UK have Nukes, the US have Nukes too so with the line drawn in the sand it's too risky for and Vlad to go there. Plus with how badly Russian Armies are doing in Ukraine at present they would be torn to shreds by NATO forces on our home turf. I think Ukraine has got this one and they'll have to fight their corner.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 12:20:45 AM
Kharkiv being attacked today, oil refinery & gas pipeline hit, lots of fire & smoke.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 12:43:27 AM
Trench, where's your balls?  You need to go find them, because you aren't wearing them.

That attitude is like seeing a woman getting raped, and not wanting to get involved because you might have to fight with the rapist.  Grow a pair.

A lady just sent me a video from an apartment window.  Russian tanks rolling down the street in Kyiv right now, and someone shooting at them with a rifle.

If NATO was there, they would have anti-tank guns to stop the tanks.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 27, 2022, 02:50:25 AM
Germany now stepping up..lot's more military aid being sent to Ukraine....1000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles.


They've also stopped the ban on third parties sending German manufactured weapons to Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on February 27, 2022, 04:41:52 AM
Where is the Russian version of  Claus von Stauffenberg now that he/she is needed ?
I think that is the logical solution now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 27, 2022, 05:14:14 AM
Mayor of Kharkiv saying the area of Kharkiv now back in Ukrainian control,with news outlets showing film of a column of abandoned Russian armoured vehicles and Ukrainian troops stripping them out.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 05:40:38 AM
Trench, where's your balls?  You need to go find them, because you aren't wearing them.

That attitude is like seeing a woman getting raped, and not wanting to get involved because you might have to fight with the rapist.  Grow a pair.

A lady just sent me a video from an apartment window.  Russian tanks rolling down the street in Kyiv right now, and someone shooting at them with a rifle.

If NATO was there, they would have anti-tank guns to stop the tanks.

Ah you'll be off to Ukraine to fight as one of the many foreign fighters going there will you Bee Farmer? A 'War Tourist'?

Well it could get you the women if you survive and we've seen the Reddit link on here kindly provided by Davo I think it was of those that don't live to tell the tale. But don't let me stop you, you go if you want to.

I think with NATO you're not seeing the whole picture, sure NATO could destroy a lot of their Army reasonably easily but it doesn't stop there, Russia has chemical, thermal and nuclear weapons and there is no guarantee we can stop them. Russia still has thousands upon thousands of nukes that can destroy the world several times over. We can't be assure that we can stop them all or that they won't reach us to say nothing of the radioactive fallout. At best if we destroy Russia's army we may agree a ceasefire and a resolution bin Ukraine's favour as to press on and try to capture Moscow etc would like make Russia use Nukes and hence MAD. I don't think we really want WWIII with chemical, thermal, etc misery just over Ukraine. Ukraine can fight its own battles.

That battle btw may apparently go on years:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-conflict-could-last-years-and-uk-needs-to-be-prepared-for-a-very-long-haul-says-foreign-secretary-liz-truss-12553040

So visiting Ukraine may be off for us guys and my Odessa Dreaming over. Apparently in the UK we are going to set up an International Force comprised of any of the cowards who fleed Ukraine but might change their mind and send them back in to fight.

With all the weapons now being sent to Ukraine they've got everything they need out there now to put up stiff resistance to the Russians for a long time. They will still need food and water and probably bring money in to live off so it's not certain how it will all go but I think now Ukraine has every fighting chance.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 27, 2022, 06:08:07 AM
Russia has lost around 4,300 military personnel and 146 Tanks so far.


BBC are on the Polish border watching the refugees from Ukraine arriving and reported that a large convoy of military aid was seen going the other way.


Ukrainian men who've been working as lorry drivers in Poland going the other way too to fight.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 07:27:03 AM
Russia has lost around 4,300 military personnel and 146 Tanks so far.
Russia has lost 4000 and Ukraine 198.   I find that hard to believe, if being reported from western media doesn't lend much credence to its accuracy.   If these numbers were accurate, I'd say the battle isn't going well for Russia. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 27, 2022, 08:13:06 AM
We should cancel every Russian, Belorussian, and Chechnyan student visa, and give them 24 hours to leave the US or be arrested and put in one of the ICE concentration camps for illegal immigrants.  They should also be banned from coming back to the US for 3-5 years.  This destroys the possibility of getting a US education.
Anyone with Russian/Belorussian/Chechnyan citizenship should have their visa revoked and immediately deported.

I said this same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I would go even further and evict those here with Green Card status.

There are several Russian citizens teaching here at the university with Green Card status.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 08:29:56 AM
I said this same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I would go even further and evict those here with Green Card status.

There are several Russian citizens teaching here at the university with Green Card status.

Why would we want to take such harsh action against innocents....
Nations might then retaliate and decide to imprison innocent americans living abroad. 
I'm not sure I see how this would help but I can see how it would be detrimental. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 08:32:36 AM
Russia has lost 4000 and Ukraine 198.   I find that hard to believe, if being reported from western media doesn't lend much credence to its accuracy.   If these numbers were accurate, I'd say the battle isn't going well for Russia. 

Fathertime!

I think you're right FT that number can't be accurate, Russian losses more than ten times Ukrainian??? Possibly if Russia transported troops in lorries or tank crews being hit I could see it being a bit higher but more than ten times? Like you say either Ukrainians are understating their loses or they are overstating Russian casualties, maybe both.

I don't think it's going well for Russia but I can't see how it would be going that badly especially when the Russian forces are better equipped and trained supposedly. It may be Ukraine trying to hook the west, NATO into coming to their aid. The news report the other day from the soldiers injured at the hospital in Mariupol kind of tells a bit of a different picture, they were desperate for NATO to intervene and said that Ukraine could possibly only hold out about 8 days or so at best. I personally think it would be a disaster for NATO to get involved, almost certain WWIII and many, many more deaths as a result. Apart from Russia I could see China take the opportunity to invade Taiwan then the nations of the South China Sea then finally Australia due to NATO being distracted with Russia and most of its forces sent there. We would then be in a war with China and hence a world war. To my mind this fight is best kept between Russia & Ukraine, it's their fight and we never promised to come in fighting for Ukraine despite Zelensky's best efforts to try and drag us in.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 08:37:23 AM
Germany now stepping up..lot's more military aid being sent to Ukraine....1000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles.
It makes no sense that Russia would allow these weapons to be transported into Ukraine.   Given they have 100's of thousands of men on the ground now, it would seem they could control this sort of weaponry entering a battle zone. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 27, 2022, 08:44:07 AM
After being requested by Ukraine, in an instant, Elon Musk is regarded as a hero in this conflict by moving his Starlink station to Easter Europe. He promised to mobilize and add more stations.

Starlink (http://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1497701484003213317?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497701484003213317%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-7418522281252376296.ampproject.net%2F2202142035002%2Fframe.html)

Thanks to Germany too for forsaking their domestic needs at this time in favor of Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 27, 2022, 09:05:13 AM
68F,  brrrrr
Ok.i needed a laugh today, thanks

Hah. You’re a Kali boy, you know it may show air temp at 68 but the cold northern wind makes in feel like you’re in the arctic. It felt like a San Francisco summer.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 27, 2022, 09:53:10 AM
After being requested by Ukraine, in an instant, Elon Musk is regarded as a hero in this conflict by moving his Starlink station to Easter Europe. He promised to mobilize and add more stations.

He didn't have to move his stations. Starlink satellites are orbiting the planet and ground stations in Lithuania and Poland can serve most of UA. Check starlink.sx  What he is sending is small dishes (terminals) used to connect to satellites connected to the internet.  I just installed mine the other day.  Am waiting to hear if it is possible to pack up and donate mine since I haven't yet cancelled my old service.  I'm posting using Starlink now. Portable, fast and stable.  A luxury here, but could well be a critical asset somewhere in UA.

(http://i.postimg.cc/rw0RYGTR/Screen-Shot-2022-02-27-at-17-39-59.png)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 27, 2022, 10:19:57 AM
Quote from: ML on Today at 10:13:06 AM
I said this same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I would go even further and evict those here with Green Card status.

There are several Russian citizens teaching here at the university with Green Card status.

Why would we want to take such harsh action against innocents....
Nations might then retaliate and decide to imprison innocent americans living abroad. 
I'm not sure I see how this would help but I can see how it would be detrimental. 

Two points:
1) You switched from my evicting to your imprisoning.
2) The Russians here are not innocents.  I talked with some of the Russian professors here back in 2014 and they said they supported Putin's actions against Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: ML on Today at 10:13:06 AM
 

Two points:
1) You switched from my evicting to your imprisoning.
2) The Russians here are not innocents.  I talked with some of the Russian professors here back in 2014 and they said they supported Putin's actions against Ukraine.


We should cancel every Russian, Belorussian, and Chechnyan student visa, and give them 24 hours to leave the US or be arrested and put in one of the ICE concentration camps for illegal immigrants.  They should also be banned from coming back to the US for 3-5 years.  This destroys the possibility of getting a US education.
Anyone with Russian/Belorussian/Chechnyan citizenship should have their visa revoked and immediately deported.

 

I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you were talking about prison.   You didn't, but bee farmer did. 

I'm not sure it would be illegal for professors to support V. Putin and his actions.   In some cases, they may simply be attempting to restate his position on the matters.  In other cases they restate and completely support Putin.   It is probably still legal to do this.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 11:13:35 AM
Ah you'll be off to Ukraine to fight as one of the many foreign fighters going there will you Bee Farmer? A 'War Tourist'?

I think with NATO you're not seeing the whole picture, sure NATO could destroy a lot of their Army reasonably easily but it doesn't stop there, Russia has chemical, thermal and nuclear weapons and there is no guarantee we can stop them. Russia still has thousands upon thousands of nukes that can destroy the world several times over. We can't be assure that we can stop them all or that they won't reach us to say nothing of the radioactive fallout. At best if we destroy Russia's army we may agree a ceasefire and a resolution bin Ukraine's favour as to press on and try to capture Moscow etc would like make Russia use Nukes and hence MAD. I don't think we really want WWIII with chemical, thermal, etc misery just over Ukraine. Ukraine can fight its own battles.

With all the weapons now being sent to Ukraine they've got everything they need out there now to put up stiff resistance to the Russians for a long time. They will still need food and water and probably bring money in to live off so it's not certain how it will all go but I think now Ukraine has every fighting chance.

Anyone with brains knows it's best to use the right tool for the job.  I'm not a professional soldier.  While it sounds romantic to go over to help fight, the reality is that my Ukrainian isn't good enough for my brains to be of much use, and that leaves being a sniper until my position gets hit with artillery.  I realize that I would be better off doing what I do best...which means I may be of more value during the reconstruction process.

Only a complete fool would even consider looking for a wife in Ukraine now.  You think scammers were bad before?  They are going to come out of the woodwork now.  It's going to take years and an enormous amount of money to repair the economy, regardless of how the way ends.

Any decent girl is going to want to stay and help take care of her family now.  She's not going to be interested in going to another country with some foreign guy she barely knows.  The girls who will be interested in foreign guys are only interested in a mule.  They want to escape.  They will not be interested in you.  As soon as they are out, they will drop you in a heartbeat the moment they have a chance at anything better.

And any girl you find is going to have full blown PTSD after this.  Do you realize how much emotional support you are going to have to give her?  That's just one big stress factor on top of all the other difficulties of international/intercultural marriages.

I think the only way a man should even consider dating in Ukraine now is if he had already started cultivating a relationship with a girl (and hopefully had met face to face) prior to this war.  You might have a chance at being able to continue building a relationship.

You also seem to forget that Russia is not the only country with nuclear weapons or a strong military.  You sound like the wimpy coward on the playground who is afraid to stand up to a bully because he might get his butt kicked even worse.

You also don't seem to understand logistics.  The moment a country says it is going to send military weapons to Ukraine, that doesn't instantly put the weapons in the fighters hands.  It has to get loaded up, sent to Poland, then loaded on trains or trucks, and then transported and distributed to different cities that are currently under attack.  Do we even need to mention that the Russian military will be doing everything they can to stop the flow of supplies to the Ukrainian fighters?  I'm surprised Russia hasn't started bombing the train system in Ukraine yet.   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 11:18:16 AM
I said this same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I would go even further and evict those here with Green Card status.

There are several Russian citizens teaching here at the university with Green Card status.

I agree with you.  If they are a Russian citizen, send them back. 

I read an article.  The 'comfortable rich' Russians have created a Little Moscow in Florida.  They are worried they may not be able to buy luxury real estate in Florida now because of the sanctions.  A Russian real estate agent there said they didn't think the sanctions would be a problem, since the sanctions were targeting the elite Russian oligarchs, and these were just the comfortable rich Russians, and not the oligarch families.

So what?  Boot them all back to Russia.  Let them cry their hearts out that they can't enjoy the luxury American lifestyle.  Those are the people we need to expel, because they know how good life here is.  They will foment a regime change in Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 11:25:39 AM
Why would we want to take such harsh action against innocents....
Nations might then retaliate and decide to imprison innocent americans living abroad. 
I'm not sure I see how this would help but I can see how it would be detrimental. 

Fathertime!

That's a risk they chose to take when they decided to live abroad.  Actions have consequences.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I do find it quite ironic that you would even mention the 'innocent' Americans living abroad.  That is seriously messed up.  You sound like that stupid Russian spy woman the US arrested a few years back.  She was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be handing out guns because a child might get killed.

WTF? What about the women and kids Russia is killing now?  What about all the innocent Ukrainians being killed?  And you want to play coward because of risks to a few bystanders, when not doing it will cause more harm to other bystanders?

When Americans choose to live abroad, they are no longer "innocent."  They chose to put themselves in that situation.  They accepted those risks.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 11:29:14 AM
I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you were talking about prison.   You didn't, but bee farmer did. 

I'm not sure it would be illegal for professors to support V. Putin and his actions.   In some cases, they may simply be attempting to restate his position on the matters.  In other cases they restate and completely support Putin.   It is probably still legal to do this.   

Fathertime!

Read my words again.  I said their visa should be cancelled and they should be ordered to leave.  If they refuse to leave immediately, they get arrested for being here without a visa.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on February 27, 2022, 11:32:36 AM
Russia is being isolated in the Sporting World :
1. UEFA Championship in St Petersburg moved.
2. F1 GP being moved from Sochi plus Russian sponsors of one team kicked out.
3. Aeroflot has football sponsorship contract cancelled in UK.
4. Czech, Sweden refuse to play Russia in WC playoffs.
5. FIG suspends the Russians (and Belarusians) from participating in international competitions or from hosting any FIG championships.

Have I missed anything?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 27, 2022, 11:50:52 AM
Quote from: ML on Today at 10:13:06 AM
  The Russians here are not innocents.  I talked with some of the Russian professors here back in 2014 and they said they supported Putin's actions against Ukraine.


(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz022722dAPC20220225054516.jpg)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 11:59:36 AM


I do find it quite ironic that you would even mention the 'innocent' Americans living abroad.  That is seriously messed up.   

When Americans choose to live abroad, they are no longer "innocent."  They chose to put themselves in that situation.  They accepted those risks.
That is a weird way to look at it.  You seem to believe by living abroad you are guilty of something.   

   You sound like that stupid Russian spy woman the US arrested a few years back.  She was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be handing out guns because a child might get killed.

WTF? What about the women and kids Russia is killing now?  What about all the innocent Ukrainians being killed?  And you want to play coward because of risks to a few bystanders, when not doing it will cause more harm to other bystanders?
 
Whoever this 'Russian spy woman' is, as a spy she obviously had an agenda so I wouldn't place too much value in her argument.   I don't see why in your head why one topic reminded you of another.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 12:02:00 PM
Russia is being isolated in the Sporting World :
1. UEFA Championship in St Petersburg moved.
2. F1 GP being moved from Sochi plus Russian sponsors of one team kicked out.
3. Aeroflot has football sponsorship contract cancelled in UK.
4. Czech, Sweden refuse to play Russia in WC playoffs.
5. FIG suspends the Russians (and Belarusians) from participating in international competitions or from hosting any FIG championships.

Have I missed anything?

Roman Abramovich turned over the Chelsea soccer team to a charity(I think?) organization.

All the main boxing organizations have refused to sanction any boxing event in Russia.

The International Judo Federation suspended Putin as president of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 12:07:21 PM
That is a weird way to look at it.  You seem to believe by living abroad you are guilty of something.   

Whoever this 'Russian spy woman' is, as a spy she obviously had an agenda so I wouldn't place too much value in her argument.   I don't see why in your head why one topic reminded you of another.   

Fathertime!

Yes, you are guilty of something.  You are guilty of choosing to live there.  You are guilty of tacitly agreeing with the decisions of the government there.

If you can't see the parallel, then I would suggest you go remove your blinders.  It is the exact same mentality and line of thinking.  Your agenda is exactly the same agenda as the Russian spy's (Maria Butina), whether you realize it or not.

“Cowardice asks the question, is it safe? Expediency asks the question, is it politic? Vanity asks the question, is it popular? But conscience asks the question, is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because it is right.” – Martin Luther King
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 12:13:30 PM
Yes, you are guilty of something.  You are guilty of choosing to live there.  You are guilty of tacitly agreeing with the decisions of the government there.
So if that is the case, why wouldn't the Russians living here be 'tacitly' agreeing with the decisions here....why would they all need to be immediately kicked out or imprisoned...

Of course I disagree with your proclamation that Americans living abroad are guilty of anything.  Perhaps you can make a better argument that doesn't contradict itself from one post to another.   

Fathertime!

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 27, 2022, 01:16:43 PM
A passport or citizenship surely influences, but doesn't define a person.

Propaganda is a huge part of the game, but we do have the ability to learn, change and adapt.

Whether one use that ability, or not is the true issue.

Democracy must prove itself stronger, and is based on inclusion rather than exclusion.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water is as undemocratic as it gets.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 27, 2022, 02:29:04 PM

Written in January of this year, this article seems prescient at this point in time .... http://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine (http://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine)

That was very interesting.  Thank you.

I found this op-ed from Russian writer Vladimir Sorokin interesting -

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/27/vladimir-putin-russia-ukraine-power
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 27, 2022, 02:36:46 PM
Anyone with brains knows it's best to use the right tool for the job.  I'm not a professional soldier.  While it sounds romantic to go over to help fight, the reality is that my Ukrainian isn't good enough for my brains to be of much use, and that leaves being a sniper until my position gets hit with artillery.  I realize that I would be better off doing what I do best...which means I may be of more value during the reconstruction process.

Only a complete fool would even consider looking for a wife in Ukraine now.  You think scammers were bad before?  They are going to come out of the woodwork now.  It's going to take years and an enormous amount of money to repair the economy, regardless of how the way ends.

Any decent girl is going to want to stay and help take care of her family now.  She's not going to be interested in going to another country with some foreign guy she barely knows.  The girls who will be interested in foreign guys are only interested in a mule.  They want to escape.  They will not be interested in you.  As soon as they are out, they will drop you in a heartbeat the moment they have a chance at anything better.

And any girl you find is going to have full blown PTSD after this.  Do you realize how much emotional support you are going to have to give her?  That's just one big stress factor on top of all the other difficulties of international/intercultural marriages.

I think the only way a man should even consider dating in Ukraine now is if he had already started cultivating a relationship with a girl (and hopefully had met face to face) prior to this war.  You might have a chance at being able to continue building a relationship.

You also seem to forget that Russia is not the only country with nuclear weapons or a strong military.  You sound like the wimpy coward on the playground who is afraid to stand up to a bully because he might get his butt kicked even worse.

You also don't seem to understand logistics.  The moment a country says it is going to send military weapons to Ukraine, that doesn't instantly put the weapons in the fighters hands.  It has to get loaded up, sent to Poland, then loaded on trains or trucks, and then transported and distributed to different cities that are currently under attack.  Do we even need to mention that the Russian military will be doing everything they can to stop the flow of supplies to the Ukrainian fighters?  I'm surprised Russia hasn't started bombing the train system in Ukraine yet.   

Not that I disagree with your points there...I actually think most are  generally accurate

But you also seem to forget the entire reason the K1 process was ever developed and integrated into u.s. immigration policy.

Granted TC is English.

It just ironic your take on women leaving and their motivations when the K1 was centered around military personnel, and often in war torn areas.

🤷‍♂️
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 27, 2022, 02:59:09 PM
That's a risk they chose to take when they decided to live abroad.  Actions have consequences.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I do find it quite ironic that you would even mention the 'innocent' Americans living abroad.  That is seriously messed up.  You sound like that stupid Russian spy woman the US arrested a few years back.  She was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be handing out guns because a child might get killed.

WTF? What about the women and kids Russia is killing now?  What about all the innocent Ukrainians being killed?  And you want to play coward because of risks to a few bystanders, when not doing it will cause more harm to other bystanders?

When Americans choose to live abroad, they are no longer "innocent."  They chose to put themselves in that situation.  They accepted those risks.

So by your logic the many times I've lived and worked abroad,  for various u. s.companies  , if our foreign policy changes when a new administration takes over, or they make some foolish invasion decisions,  I should not be able to rely on the closet us embassy for any support, and any nation connected with whomever feels harmed by u.s actions can imprison me or whatever justly.?
Do you have even the lightest idea of the scope of u.s contracted services abroad?
  So someone working in industrial.constuction in israel ,or Brazil, is not an *innocent* bystander because their company sent them.there for two.years on assignment?

You have a very weird perspective of how globally anything reasonable can work,or should work.

I've direct family in Ukraine and inlaws,,
Yet your stance on Russians legally here is beyond foolish.


I know plenty of Russians here that certainly do not support this invasion in any way shape or form.

Nor are they children of wealthy Russians.
There are close to 250,000 Russians within 150 mile radius of me,and roughly  half a million Ukrainians,not.to.mention a million polish,and the highest numbers of Lithuanians per capita in the US,  is the county I live in.


Have you fully supported every international move the usa has made?








Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 27, 2022, 03:02:11 PM
Hah. You’re a Kali boy, you know it may show air temp at 68 but the cold northern wind makes in feel like you’re in the arctic. It felt like a San Francisco summer.

Yes I know lol, but we had highs of 13F here  last week,  it was a balmy 28 yesterday and actually did feel. Umm warm.

Regarding SF,
I told my wife when we were in our way to visit there previously that despite.our.winters ,I had never been so chilled to.the bone as SF in summer 🤣
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 27, 2022, 03:05:21 PM
He didn't have to move his stations. Starlink satellites are orbiting the planet and ground stations in Lithuania and Poland can serve most of UA. Check starlink.sx  What he is sending is small dishes (terminals) used to connect to satellites connected to the internet.  I just installed mine the other day.  Am waiting to hear if it is possible to pack up and donate mine since I haven't yet cancelled my old service.  I'm posting using Starlink now. Portable, fast and stable.  A luxury here, but could well be a critical asset somewhere in UA.

(http://i.postimg.cc/rw0RYGTR/Screen-Shot-2022-02-27-at-17-39-59.png)

I saw he did that and that was very cool.

He doesn't have much love for.Russian administration,  I believe back.when he was  buying rockets from.them.early in space x, after a few trips one of the admins spit on his shoes  in an altercation over negotiations of price?
Something like that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 03:42:15 PM
Looking at the video on TV off the Ukrainians tacking the Russians in Kharkiv I can see why Russia is doing so badly. Each time a column rolls into a area of the city they are in the open surrounded by concrete tower blocks. These tower blocks serve like huge concrete bunkers, many of them no doubt with people with guns so they are fired upon from virtually every conceivable angle. They show the Russian armoured column riddled with bullets and the Russians having fled. These tower blocks go on for many miles into the city so it's like the Russians are having to move through a vast concrete bunker network that towers over them and goes on for many miles.

Looking at the map the Russians haven't got far into Ukraine, not as far as they could have. It sounds like they are using the same failed strategy over and over again and getting the same result. If it were me I would surround the main cities and cut off their supplies of food and choke them out, yet the Russians appear too stupid to think of this. If the Russians continue as they have been I don't see their chances of success as high. That would be a good thing as it would likely humble Russia's over confidence and they would be less likely to be as aggressive in future to my mind.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 27, 2022, 03:45:25 PM
It makes no sense that Russia would allow these weapons to be transported into Ukraine.   Given they have 100's of thousands of men on the ground now, it would seem they could control this sort of weaponry entering a battle zone. 

Fathertime!

 I know from.friends and family they certainly do not control.western Ukraine in any way shape or form at the moment, a few missle strikes does not control a massive border to the.west.
They may at some point,but they are far from it today. .
They are struggling with kharkiv in the far east of the country with a moderate Russian population.
The going will only get  tougher in more western Ukraine and a much  less moderate population in regards to Russia in general. .
Add in when they get extreme west near the  border it's mountainous , remote and good luck ever holding that region or.sealing the border.
Not saying it couldn't be done,Russia absolutely has the resources to do.so, but certainly would take a far  far more involved effort than they have done so far(which already  is quite a large scope)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 04:05:30 PM
Anyone with brains knows it's best to use the right tool for the job.  I'm not a professional soldier.  While it sounds romantic to go over to help fight, the reality is that my Ukrainian isn't good enough for my brains to be of much use, and that leaves being a sniper until my position gets hit with artillery.  I realize that I would be better off doing what I do best...which means I may be of more value during the reconstruction process.

Only a complete fool would even consider looking for a wife in Ukraine now.  You think scammers were bad before?  They are going to come out of the woodwork now.  It's going to take years and an enormous amount of money to repair the economy, regardless of how the way ends.

Any decent girl is going to want to stay and help take care of her family now.  She's not going to be interested in going to another country with some foreign guy she barely knows.  The girls who will be interested in foreign guys are only interested in a mule.  They want to escape.  They will not be interested in you.  As soon as they are out, they will drop you in a heartbeat the moment they have a chance at anything better.

And any girl you find is going to have full blown PTSD after this.  Do you realize how much emotional support you are going to have to give her?  That's just one big stress factor on top of all the other difficulties of international/intercultural marriages.

I think the only way a man should even consider dating in Ukraine now is if he had already started cultivating a relationship with a girl (and hopefully had met face to face) prior to this war.  You might have a chance at being able to continue building a relationship.

You also seem to forget that Russia is not the only country with nuclear weapons or a strong military.  You sound like the wimpy coward on the playground who is afraid to stand up to a bully because he might get his butt kicked even worse.

You also don't seem to understand logistics.  The moment a country says it is going to send military weapons to Ukraine, that doesn't instantly put the weapons in the fighters hands.  It has to get loaded up, sent to Poland, then loaded on trains or trucks, and then transported and distributed to different cities that are currently under attack.  Do we even need to mention that the Russian military will be doing everything they can to stop the flow of supplies to the Ukrainian fighters?  I'm surprised Russia hasn't started bombing the train system in Ukraine yet.   

There's nothing worse than someone who thinks they are too good to fight while others are only worthy enough to face being slaughtered Bee Farmer. Its probably the most cowardly excuse and we will no doubt hear others echo it like we have from BC of an actual Ukrainian be guy who is escaping citing that he is too worthy and so above other Ukrainian guys. Perhaps they should dispute that and all say stuff him and head for the border too lol.

Anyhow you're description of how it will likely be like post war is accurate enough so I'll give you credit there Bee Farmer. That said it is just what western guys have been suffering all along just on more of a heightened scale. Same answer hold true I think and that is to avoid the bad girls and find your way to a good one. To my mind the best way to do that is to be out there. If this war is over in a few weeks or months then I'll be on my way out there, to Odessa. Place myself in the best position possible by being a affluent guy living in a community where affluence has become a rarer commodity than ever. Now I ask you are girls going to scam me if I'm living out there in such a situation? Some might but many girls will instantly see the sense in getting with a guy like me, I would be a great long term prospect and they would want to get in before another girl did. That's how you turn such a situation to your advantage.

As far as the way Russia's military is operating I am surprised they are not all over the situation. Apparently lorries of ammunition was shown today going over the border. I'm surprised Russia doesn't hit it from the air, they would likely have to risk hitting civilian lorries of course. The help is being given and it looks like it will mostly get through. How well Ukraine can continue to do against Russia we will have to wait and see. I don't think though that escalating the situation by using NATO will help it will only cause a lot of bloodshed and misery by our own people. I also don't think our people are up for it as they'll look at people like you and say, 'if he ain't going to fight then neither am I, goodbye!'
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 27, 2022, 04:31:49 PM
I think I have mentioned it before here, but . . .

the most vicious hand to hand combat I have ever seen was between two Ukrainian men (late 20s in very good shape) in an underground metro area in Kharkiv.

Wife says that Ukrainians are typically docile, but when riled they can act like that.  A lot of Cossack blood in many of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 27, 2022, 04:39:54 PM
Making the social media rounds.

We are in WW III

Russia against the world and,
Ukraine representing the world against Russia.

Seems to be a lot of truth in this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 05:14:35 PM
.
They are struggling with kharkiv in the far east of the country with a moderate Russian population.
The going will only get  tougher in more western Ukraine and a much  less moderate population in regards to Russia in general. .
 

Looking at the video on TV off the Ukrainians tacking the Russians in Kharkiv I can see why Russia is doing so badly. Each time a column rolls into a area of the city they are in the open surrounded by concrete tower blocks. These tower blocks serve like huge concrete bunkers, many of them no doubt with people with guns so they are fired upon from virtually every conceivable angle. They show the Russian armoured column riddled with bullets and the Russians having fled. These tower blocks go on for many miles into the city so it's like the Russians are having to move through a vast concrete bunker network that towers over them and goes on for many miles.

 
The consensus here is that Russia is doing rather poorly with their attacks.   I read they are having a big meeting tomorrow with Ukraine.  IF what you are saying is accurate regarding russia's inabilities thus far, I'd venture a guess that Russia will say something like: 

"We have prioritized safety of civilians during these first few days.  We will no longer be able to do this and meet our strategic objective Our strategic objective will be prioritized after this meeting ends".   

If that statement is actualized those buildings Trenchcoat was mentioning would all be leveled, and the carnage would be unfathomable.  Putin may feel he has little more to lose, his chips are committed.  Aside from his life, he has little more to lose, and him being in a very bad place is a VERY bad place for humanity.   I do not know what his objectives are, but I think more information will come out after tomorrow's meeting.  I hope Ukraine leadership considers all that is at stake here and deprioritizes what biden and other western leaders want.  The west is all too happy to keep feeding them weaponry and lead them into what (I believe) will be an eventual slaughter.     

Of course, this is just my opinion, maybe Russia's military is so futile that they can't pull it off...but I think they can and will, because they will resort to whatever tactics are necessary.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
The consensus here is that Russia is doing rather poorly with their attacks.   I read they are having a big meeting tomorrow with Ukraine.  IF what you are saying is accurate regarding russia's inabilities thus far, I'd venture a guess that Russia will say something like: 

"We have prioritized safety of civilians during these first few days.  We will no longer be able to do this and meet our strategic objective Our strategic objective will be prioritized after this meeting ends".   

If that statement is actualized those buildings Trenchcoat was mentioning would all be leveled, and the carnage would be unfathomable.  Putin may feel he has little more to lose, his chips are committed.  Aside from his life, he has little more to lose, and him being in a very bad place is a VERY bad place for humanity.   I do not know what his objectives are, but I think more information will come out after tomorrow's meeting.  I hope Ukraine leadership considers all that is at stake here and deprioritizes what biden and other western leaders want.  The west is all too happy to keep feeding them weaponry and lead them into what (I believe) will be an eventual slaughter.     

Of course, this is just my opinion, maybe Russia's military is so futile that they can't pull it off...but I think they can and will, because they will resort to whatever tactics are necessary.   

Fathertime!

I think you've got it bang on right with how it will go down at the meeting FT. Russia will put what it wants and if Ukraine doesn't agree it will go in harder against Ukraine. Whether that is surrounding cities and starving them out like castle sieges of old or using all manner of high powered missiles. So far I don't think Russia has used a fraction of its power and that power lays mostly in its missiles. It looks like to date Russia has been trying to see if any of Ukraine's major cities would fold and gain a victory without much bloodshed. None has but I can't see Russia carrying on the same failed strategy they would be utter idiots. The other strategies of course involve a complete bloodbath and utter devastation to Ukraine. Starving the cities our potentially is the least deadly provided Russia has the resources to do it and the inhabitants don't take it literally to the point of starving to death.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 27, 2022, 06:58:09 PM
...Putin may feel he has little more to lose, his chips are committed.  Aside from his life, he has little more to lose, and him being in a very bad place is a VERY bad place for humanity.   I do not know what his objectives are, but I think more information will come out after tomorrow's meeting.  I hope Ukraine leadership considers all that is at stake here and deprioritizes what biden and other western leaders want.  The west is all too happy to keep feeding them weaponry and lead them into what (I believe) will be an eventual slaughter...   

That, baby...is exactly the predictable script in this tragedy. I can only hope that before this reaches the crescendo that the majority of the civilian are evacuated and casualty will be minimize if not all together avoided. The west can, and will, supply Ukraine all the military ware it wants, and the more they do, the more mad Vlad will turn this burner on.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 27, 2022, 07:02:50 PM
Have you fully supported every international move the usa has made?


Not even sure why that conversation found life. It clearly sounds like a page taken from Osama Bin Laden/Al Qeada's justification for 911.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 07:56:50 PM
So if that is the case, why wouldn't the Russians living here be 'tacitly' agreeing with the decisions here....why would they all need to be immediately kicked out or imprisoned...

Of course I disagree with your proclamation that Americans living abroad are guilty of anything.  Perhaps you can make a better argument that doesn't contradict itself from one post to another.   

Fathertime!

The Russians living here HAVE tacitly agreed.  They are here by privilege, and not by right.  They agreed that privilege could be revoked.  They can be named a persona non grata at any time by the host government.  They can either get out or get arrested if they stay.  It's pretty simple.

Any American living abroad is guilty of agreeing to live in another country as a privilege, and not a right.  I have no idea what contradiction you think exists...and I'm not going to try to read your mind. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 27, 2022, 08:02:41 PM

I don't think they will unless a significant number of Russian soldiers start coming home in body bags.

"We will remind that the Russian army  bought 45 thousand cellophane packages for transportation of corpses . This was announced on February 23 by the head of the Security Service of Ukraine in Kharkiv region Roman Dudin. The SBU believes that the packages are planned to be used for killed Russian soldiers."

http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/buntuyut-i-ne-hochut-voyuvati-na-kordoni-rf-z-ukrayinoyu-zvilnyayutsya-rosiyski-viyskovi-kontraktniki-1985371.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 08:05:45 PM

But you also seem to forget the entire reason the K1 process was ever developed and integrated into u.s. immigration policy.

It just ironic your take on women leaving and their motivations when the K1 was centered around military personnel, and often in war torn areas.

🤷‍♂️

I am aware of how the K1 started for war brides.  Typically, the soldier was stationed in that area for a length of time, and developed a relationship with the girl while he was there.  Both of them were emotionally invested in the other. (we hope) Then he brought her back.

The soldier also wasn't in a country that had a culture of many women trying to fleece men for money.  Divorce was also frowned upon much more than today.

If a guy was to go live in Ukraine for an extended length of time now, I still think it would be possible to find a good wife.  The girls looking for a quick escape aren't going to want to be involved with a man staying in the country for an extended amount of time. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 08:17:04 PM
So by your logic the many times I've lived and worked abroad,  for various u. s.companies  , if our foreign policy changes when a new administration takes over, or they make some foolish invasion decisions,  I should not be able to rely on the closet us embassy for any support, and any nation connected with whomever feels harmed by u.s actions can imprison me or whatever justly.?


I have no clue how anyone with a brain could come to that conclusion by following my logic.  Are you unable to read? 

When you are living in another country, you are there by PRIVILEGE.  That privilege can be revoked by the host government.  They can declare you a persona non grata at any time, and they can tell you to leave.  If you don't leave, they will arrest you.  Yes, the host government is perfectly within their rights to tell you to leave, and to arrest you if you don't leave.

Quote
Do you have even the lightest idea of the scope of u.s contracted services abroad?

It's irrelevant.  The ONLY thing that matters is that the person abroad is there by PRIVILEGE from the host government, and that government has the right to kick them out at any time, for any reason.

Quote
So someone working in industrial.constuction in israel ,or Brazil, is not an *innocent* bystander because their company sent them.there for two.years on assignment?

They had a choice to go or not.  No, they are not an innocent bystander.  They voluntarily made the decision to go live in another country as a privilege extended by the host government.

Quote
You have a very weird perspective of how globally anything reasonable can work,or should work.

And you are ignorant of law, rights, and privileges.

Quote
I've direct family in Ukraine and inlaws,,

That is irrelevant.

Quote
Yet your stance on Russians legally here is beyond foolish.

They are here as a legal PRIVILEGE, and that privilege can be revoked.  Their visa can be revoked.  They can be named a persona non grata, and they can still be deported.

Quote
I know plenty of Russians here that certainly do not support this invasion in any way shape or form.

Nor are they children of wealthy Russians.
There are close to 250,000 Russians within 150 mile radius of me,and roughly  half a million Ukrainians,not.to.mention a million polish,and the highest numbers of Lithuanians per capita in the US,  is the county I live in.

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?  Nothing.  It's irrelevant.

Quote
Have you fully supported every international move the usa has made?

No, but once again, that's IRRELEVANT.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 08:30:44 PM
There's nothing worse than someone who thinks they are too good to fight while others are only worthy enough to face being slaughtered Bee Farmer. Its probably the most cowardly excuse and we will no doubt hear others echo it like we have from BC of an actual Ukrainian be guy who is escaping citing that he is too worthy and so above other Ukrainian guys. Perhaps they should dispute that and all say stuff him and head for the border too lol.

I hate to break it to you, but 100 years ago the US government realized that they had a better chance of winning wars if they let the dumber folks be cannon fodder, and your more intelligent folks become officers.  It doesn't work very well if you have idiots in charge, and the geniuses get used as cannon fodder.  (But you don't want them too dumb, or you can't even teach them how to be cannon fodder.)

The US military won't accept guys over 35 either, and I am past 35.

Whether you agree with it or not, there are people who have enough brains or resources that they can be of greater benefit in other ways than by being cannon fodder.

Quote
If this war is over in a few weeks or months then I'll be on my way out there, to Odessa. Place myself in the best position possible by being a affluent guy living in a community where affluence has become a rarer commodity than ever. Now I ask you are girls going to scam me if I'm living out there in such a situation? Some might but many girls will instantly see the sense in getting with a guy like me, I would be a great long term prospect and they would want to get in before another girl did. That's how you turn such a situation to your advantage.

You're delusional. 
1. You're not affluent, and girls will realize that really quick.
2. Even if a girl did think you were affluent, she would not be looking for a long-term prospect.  She will be looking to see how much she can fleece you for, and how quickly.  But if you buy her a Ferrari, she might start thinking a little longer term.

3. If you wanted to turn the situation to your advantage, you would first be a good guy.  You would spend some of your affluence on helping rebuild, and taking care of people around you.  Then, good girls looking for a long-term prospect might take notice of you. 

 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 27, 2022, 08:37:57 PM
The head of the EU has said she thinks Ukraine should be allowed to join.

Zelensky is saying that he would consider non-aligned status of not joining NATO.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail tomorrow at the meeting.  I think both sides could walk away saving face if they agreed that Ukraine could join the EU, but would not join NATO.  The war ends, and the Donbass (and maybe Crimea) is returned to Ukraine.

Both sides could come out getting something they wanted.  Ukraine could get in the EU, the fighting ends, and regain territory.  Russia has Ukraine as a buffer zone keeping NATO at bay.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 09:07:49 PM

Any American living abroad is guilty of agreeing to live in another country as a privilege, and not a right.  I have no idea what contradiction you think exists...and I'm not going to try to read your mind.
Only a complete idiot can't see the contradiction in what you are writing.   You state all Americans living abroad are 'guilty'.  (Idiotic statement), because they 'tacitly' agree with their host country's government.  On its face that is an idiotic statement, and even if Americans abroad did like their hosts government that is no crime.    After this, you try to demand all Russians living here in green card status be expelled or imprisoned...you say this while saying how expats tacitly approve of the government in their host country (Russians here).    Get your shit together and come up with a better reason you can be consistent with.   

I hate to break it to you, but 100 years ago the US government realized that they had a better chance of winning wars if they let the dumber folks be cannon fodder, and your more intelligent folks become officers. 

So then why did you think you weren't qualified as cannon fodder....

Fathertime! 
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 27, 2022, 09:24:23 PM
The head of the EU has said she thinks Ukraine should be allowed to join.

Zelensky is saying that he would consider non-aligned status of not joining NATO.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail tomorrow at the meeting.  I think both sides could walk away saving face if they agreed that Ukraine could join the EU, but would not join NATO.  The war ends, and the Donbass (and maybe Crimea) is returned to Ukraine.

Both sides could come out getting something they wanted.  Ukraine could get in the EU, the fighting ends, and regain territory.  Russia has Ukraine as a buffer zone keeping NATO at bay.

I don't think that will be considered an acceptable solution on the Russian side at this point.   Perhaps we shall learn what is REALLY going on, or perhaps not.   Biden is making statements taking actions that all indicate he wants to make sure the battle is as bloody as possible.  I wonder if the public will find out what is really going on. 
Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 27, 2022, 09:34:28 PM
Any American living abroad is guilty of agreeing to live in another country as a privilege, and not a right.  I have no idea what contradiction you think exists...and I'm not going to try to read your mind.

As an American living abroad, I don't see it this way.  I live in a country that provides immigrants the same rights that a citizen has.  The only exception is voting and the possibility of expulsion if I break the law in a significant way. Privilege by your definition, implies immigrants should be afforded fewer rights than a citizen.  That is not the case here, nor is it, AFAIK, the case in the US.

You seem to desire precisely the same thing Putin wants... to run Russia and other satellite countries by abolishing rights and limiting freedoms of citizens and non-citizens.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 04:12:49 AM
EU is now sending Fighter Jets to Ukraine,which the Ukrainian pilots know how to fly.


According to news outlets in Israel,where he now lives,Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich is at the meeting between Ukraine and Russia delegates in Belarus today at Kyiv's request to try and broker a peace deal.


People are saying they can see a hollywood movie being made out of what is happening in Mariupol.
Russia expected to take it within  hours..and we're now in the 5th day of fighting there.


Berdyansk is the first city to fall to Russian forces.


Ukrainian forces are seriously delaying Russian forces entering Kiev..they have been attacking the armoured columns on the roads to Kiev breaking-up lines of communication with reports of chaos in the logistics.


According to the Ukraine President Russia has now lost 4,500 military personnel.


The Rouble has sunk to an all-time low.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 05:05:19 AM
Barrage of Russian grad missiles currently hitting Kharkiv apartment blocks,with dozens of civilians killed.


Shelling of Donetsk has intensified today also.


Mad Vlad the terrorist busy today then.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 07:23:54 AM
Sweden has broken neutrality and is sending 5000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.


Switzerland is joining the EU in sanctions against Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 07:24:12 AM
Wife is getting reports from friends and relatives that the Javelin is doing quite a job.

In some instances they have seen 20 or more tanks and large trucks lined up setting destroyed on roadways leading toward Kyiv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=379oNAwQjMY
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 07:55:23 AM
Wife understands better than me.

I mentioned to wife how it is a shame that other countries didn't earlier send the planes and weapons to Ukraine that they are now doing.

She said quite simple explanation:

Countries did not believe Ukraine would last very long, and didn't want all the weapons to end up in the hands of Russians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 08:01:55 AM
Russia is being isolated in the Sporting World :
1. UEFA Championship in St Petersburg moved.
2. F1 GP being moved from Sochi plus Russian sponsors of one team kicked out.
3. Aeroflot has football sponsorship contract cancelled in UK.
4. Czech, Sweden refuse to play Russia in WC playoffs.
5. FIG suspends the Russians (and Belarusians) from participating in international competitions or from hosting any FIG championships.

Have I missed anything?


FIFA is now going to suspend Russia from all competitions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 28, 2022, 08:05:33 AM
Bee Farmer-
Having lived abroad in many countries long term,I am all too  familiar with the privilege granted by the host governments honoring a visa they issued ,and that they can certainly choose to revoke that visa at any time.


Fortunately none of them are prone to toddler like tantrums ,or likely to hold foreign workers in thier countries liable for the foreign policy decisions of their national.governments,as they recognize those can change on a dime.

Having the right to do something, doesn't always make it the right thing to do. This seems a concept that is easy for most to grasp.

You stating that the volume of foreign workers, students etc  in a country is irrelevant,simply shows your lack on understanding of again a very basic concept.

I'll agree it irrelevant to that countries legal rights to revoke visas.
So there you have a point  that noone was ever disputing. Well done.

There are several countries that would never throw such a toddler tantrum to do such,  even though its within their rights,,because  first, they recognize it is not the correct thing to do.
Second they recognize their entire economy and way of life of thier citizens would be devastated ,so from a pragmatic standpoint could not.


My apologies that things are not so clear cut and black and white in a global scenario,and that countries acting like toddlers and throwing such tantrums would quickly self destruct over many other issues if they cant think and act more clearly in general.

My Ukrainian wife would absolutely not agree that Russian visas be revoked here.It's riduculous.

In the end you can rant all you want, it's  the wrong thing to do, and it will not be done.


Get back to me when the usa revokes those here on  visas ok?
Otherwise  it's just wasted bandwidth.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 08:09:29 AM
Wife understands better than me.

I mentioned to wife how it is a shame that other countries didn't earlier send the planes and weapons to Ukraine that they are now doing.

She said quite simple explanation:

Countries did not believe Ukraine would last very long, and didn't want all the weapons to end up in the hands of Russians.


Yes that thought had crossed my mind too...they needed to know that Ukrainians would stand and fight,which they are.


Apparently,some earlier shipments of weapons sent to Ukraine before this year had ended up in the wrong hands.


Let's be honest,i expect most of us on here are on Ukraine's side over this war,but there's no denying they are a corrupt country..as is Russia of course.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 08:43:26 AM
To give us an idea what it's like for some/many ? of the Russian troops in Ukraine.


The Ukraine ambassador to the UN has released a text sent by a Russian soldier to his mother.


He's just read it out to the UN Assembly.


This is the gist of it .


"Mama it's terrible here..our troops are killing Ukrainian troops and civilians..we thought they wanted us here,but they are fighting and laying down their bodies in front of our Tanks and armoured vehicles to try and stop us advancing.I feel so bad Mama."


Several minutes later he was killed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2022, 09:01:14 AM
I hate to break it to you, but 100 years ago the US government realized that they had a better chance of winning wars if they let the dumber folks be cannon fodder, and your more intelligent folks become officers.  It doesn't work very well if you have idiots in charge, and the geniuses get used as cannon fodder.  (But you don't want them too dumb, or you can't even teach them how to be cannon fodder.)

The US military won't accept guys over 35 either, and I am past 35.

Whether you agree with it or not, there are people who have enough brains or resources that they can be of greater benefit in other ways than by being cannon fodder.

You're delusional. 
1. You're not affluent, and girls will realize that really quick.
2. Even if a girl did think you were affluent, she would not be looking for a long-term prospect.  She will be looking to see how much she can fleece you for, and how quickly.  But if you buy her a Ferrari, she might start thinking a little longer term.

3. If you wanted to turn the situation to your advantage, you would first be a good guy.  You would spend some of your affluence on helping rebuild, and taking care of people around you.  Then, good girls looking for a long-term prospect might take notice of you. 

We can all claim to be geniuses or too good to be used as cannon fodder. After all who would want to be cannon fodder? Those that are fighting in Ukraine at the moment feel that they have no choice. If some guy stood up and said he was too good for it then I would do the same also, everyone else might as well, then where would we be?

I'm not claiming that I would be the wealthiest guy around. I wouldn't even go out to get a girl on that basis I know it leads nowhere good. All I am saying is that I would look reasonably prosperous so more girls would consider me for dating. From there I can (hopefully) chose the best choice.

Though I guess I could well become the Carnegie of the Ukraine.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 28, 2022, 09:10:44 AM
This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdiEABLFoo


There's a validity in what he's saying as to why Russian troops are circling and stopping 20 miles out of the major cities, including Kyiv.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2022, 09:40:22 AM
EU is now sending Fighter Jets to Ukraine,which the Ukrainian pilots know how to fly.


According to the Ukraine President Russia has now lost 4,500 military personnel.


The Rouble has sunk to an all-time low.

Yeah it sounds to reason that they would have lost similar to the Russians. The other figures I think we're just for civilians though that figure may have not been all that certain or a daily figure.

The general idea I get is that the two sides seem fairly evenly matched with the cities giving the Ukrainians a good defensive position. Apparently the main bulk of Russia's Army hadn't reached Kyiv yet so they are kind off making pretty slow progress.

If the Russian economy starts to do real bad then that is what might end this war for the Russians, eventually.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 28, 2022, 09:53:21 AM

Russian Buk destroyed near Kyiv by TB2 drone

http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=684223203027915
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2022, 09:57:50 AM
The head of the EU has said she thinks Ukraine should be allowed to join.

Zelensky is saying that he would consider non-aligned status of not joining NATO.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail tomorrow at the meeting.  I think both sides could walk away saving face if they agreed that Ukraine could join the EU, but would not join NATO.  The war ends, and the Donbass (and maybe Crimea) is returned to Ukraine.

Both sides could come out getting something they wanted.  Ukraine could get in the EU, the fighting ends, and regain territory.  Russia has Ukraine as a buffer zone keeping NATO at bay.

The EU is a menace and behind a lot of the reason why this has all come about. I don't see Ukraine joining the EU nor do I think it would be a good idea. The EU are now stony broke having taken on a huge Covid debt. Ukraine's economy will be in a very poor state as a result of Covid and this war including the embargo from the Black Sea. The EU has little money to give them and they can't raise more from the wealthier western states who are also feeling the pinch.

In addition if Ukraine joined before the war ended in theory an attack on one state is an attack on all states under the EU treaty. Whether that applies to a new member that is already been attacked who knows. The threat either way is that the EU as a whole gets dragged into the war and member states won't like that. Plus it could bring in NATO as Eastern States are also NATO members.

Zelensky is angling to get in both that annoys me as it will almost likely being a bigger problem by escalating the conflict just to try and solve his own immediate problem. He's essentially trying to make Ukraine's problem our problem which it is not. I feel for Ukraine but I don't think Zelensky should be allowed to get away with trying to be a bit too slick in trying to get us roped up to this problem. Mass slaughter of our own people in a world war is something we can do well without. If that is how we are talked into it I won't be hanging around to fight it ain't my doing as I'm arguing against it, I'll be off, just too much off a genius to be cannon fodder on that one ;)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 28, 2022, 10:00:56 AM
This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdiEABLFoo


There's a validity in what he's saying as to why Russian troops are circling and stopping 20 miles out of the major cities, including Kyiv.

I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on February 28, 2022, 10:06:05 AM
I wanted to come back to make one very important post so you all have a better understanding of what is going on. Forget everything you learned from the media about Ukraine, Afghanistan, politics, and other issues around the world. The truth is our Western media puts out as much propaganda as the media in countries you despise. WE are in an information war and most people's minds do not know what is going on which means most people are incapacitated. How do you resist and fight back when you don't understand there is a problem?

 
How would you feel if America attacked Canada, Mexico, and Cuba without justification? You would be angry at America. But... what if you learned Putin put biological weapons labs in Canada, chemical weapons plants in Mexico, and nuclear bases in Cuba? Then you would call Putin and Russia the aggressors and America's neighbor nations deserved to be attacked since they allowed weapons of mass destruction to be created on their land.

 
I'm here to tell you that America and Western Europe want this war in Ukraine. Get mad at them. There are a variety of reasons Putin is attacking Ukraine and some are actually good reasons. Our Western nations have been doing things that violate treaties with Russia under the disguise of “gain of function”. Guess where you heard that before. We have been funding China to create super viruses and we have been funding Ukraine to create super bacteria and telling everybody it's to in turn create powerful medicines to help humanity. Here is info of a lab in Ukraine. Last page shows funding by George Soros and other international partners. Western nations have been outsourcing the manufacturing of weapons of mass destruction to other countries. We've created dangerous labs next door to Russia and using Ukraine to create pathogens that can harm humanity. Western nations intentionally put Ukraine and it's people at risk of war and disease.

 
http://www.stcu.int/documents/reports/distribution/tpf/ipf/bio/ua/pdf/UAPRI_IPF_Odesa_Ukraine.pdf (http://www.stcu.int/documents/reports/distribution/tpf/ipf/bio/ua/pdf/UAPRI_IPF_Odesa_Ukraine.pdf)

 
Because Putin isn't going all out in this war tells me he's not totally evil. He has sent only a small percentage of Russian troops into Ukraine and he's allowed communications and internet to continue. Putin has put his troops at additional risk by letting the enemy communicate. If Hillary and her people can hack into the White House and spy on a sitting president, you can be sure Russian hackers could hack into anything and shut it down. Over the years I've heavily criticized Putin but it's possible this time he is saving the lives of hundreds of millions if not billions of people by going after those biolabs and stopping other Deeps State projects in Ukraine. He knows Western nations funded the creation of the coronavirus and released it on humanity on purpose. He knows it can be done again.

 
I've posted many links to info on this forum but if you are led to water, it's up to you to drink. There's much more wrong in this world I can tell you but if you “don't get it” with the biolabs in Ukraine, you want to remain blind. People have unearth many videos of Bill Gates and other leaders of the World economic forum saying there are too many people on earth. You can find a 2010 TED talk on youtube where Bill Gates says we can control population with reproductive health care(fancy name for abortions), and vaccines. The current vaccines are compromising people's reproductive systems and immune systems the way HIV does which can lead to AIDS. Later in life you will easily get sick from something else which in turn will kill you. In my circle of friends, I know one guy who's testicles grew to the size of tennis balls and 5 women who miscarried after taking the vaccine. Other tools for world depopulation are war and inflation. People are less likely to have kids when life is expensive in a world where the future is uncertain.

 
Some of your heroes in politics want us to be uncomfortable and promote human suffering while propaganda media tells you it's someone else's fault. They get rich when there are problems. If government and life is running smooth, we are less likely to donate money since there are no problems to fix.

 
Guys like George Soros and his organizations are banned by a few countries including Russia. He should be banned if not imprisoned by America. He has funded election law change in America making it easier to cheat and he has installed puppet politicians in our government to influence policy. Our tax dollars are sent around the world to make biological weapons as a sample of the evil Soros has done on our nation.

 
I am ashamed of what America has become. Our government leaders are imposters controlled by others. They cheated their way into power and are making the world a more dangerous place with policies that enrich themselves and  destroy humanity with a propaganda media that portrays them as the good guys.

 
What can be done? Follow the links I provided in the past. Wake up and become active in this fight. We are in an information war and they've turned most of us into sheeple. I've been to 4 public hearings with some of my state Representatives telling us of the corruption and they want to stop the election fraud. Trump is spending heavily thiring people to go all over the country to educate us about what is going on. Our government at all levels are being taken over. Our school boards are promoting Communist ideologies. Our media fails to expose corrupt politicians and promoting stories that get us to hate each other to the point we are fighting and focusing on each other instead of our government. Black against white, women, against men, Christians against Muslims, straight against gays are all engineered problems created by our government, not created by ourselves.

 
Where are we at in this fight? Good people are fighting on behalf of all of us which most of us still asleep and don't know what is going on. We already have one election fraud case in the Supreme Court. How many of you know that? If you didn't know that, switch media sources you rely on. They want to keep you ignorant. The case has been there over 120 days and it hasn't been rejected. It has been assigned a case number but the case has been sealed so we can't monitor the progress. We are trying to get at least two more election fraud cases into the Supreme Court and they may happen soon. Hopefully the Judicial Branch will act independent instead of being a puppet of the other two branches and do the right thing. Hopefully we will wake up one day with them ordering the removal of the corrupt government and order new elections. Unfortunately SCOTUS chief Judge Roberts flew on Epstein's Lolita Express and he may be compromised. Notice how he regularly voted on the right changed to now voting on the left after flying on the Lolita Express? Last time SCOTUS made a very bad decision was denying Dred Scott, a black man, freedom because he didn't have standing in court because he was a slave, not a citizen. It led to the Civil War. If we don't reverse course, this world is going to become a very dangerous place with America providing most of the financing for the danger. The World Economic forum says the population should be reduced to 500 million people. 15 out of every 16 people need to go. You can be part of the cattle herd that voluntarily walks into the slaughter house or you can resist. Resist the media, resist the corrupt governments, and resist the vaccines.

 
Some people in the Catholic church say the Pope is Satan and the Deep Church is in control just as the Deep State is in control of Western governments. I talked to a Catholic priest recently. He too believes Satan has infiltrated the Catholic church. We both agree there is a battle for our lives, our future generations and our souls.

 
 Your media doesn't want you to know about this and the other cases approaching the front door of SCOTUS. Look at the remedy that's being asked. If you care about Ukraine and want peace in this world, pray that we win. Our current governments in power want war.
http://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A9b67a285-ea97-47c2-8219-2e6a361c11c8&fbclid=IwAR3hVhEnW9eIE1RLy47Vs6XJxseNdbHjP6KnqGLMY-db8Gg5ste3NjoIXQ0#pageNum=1
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 28, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...


Heaven forbid!


The encirclement will simply starve out the Ukrainians within by cutting off their supplies. Putin could well sit this one out as long as it takes, or via these negotiations, until his objectives are obtained - or maybe even a politically compromised version of one.


As for the point this guy makes about arming civilians/videos of civilians dead - I admit that is a very valid point.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 28, 2022, 10:16:50 AM

 
......I'm here to tell you that America and Western Europe want this war in Ukraine. Get mad at them. There are a variety of reasons Putin is attacking Ukraine and some are actually good reasons.


......Because Putin isn't going all out in this war tells me he's not totally evil.
 
......I am ashamed of what America has become. 
 

BillyB, You aren't dead yet! 

I've lost a lot of respect for America a while back.  Somewhere along the way we have become a major global problem.   

...Putin will be considered a war criminal after this (By the West), and will always have a bullseye on him...he has less and less to lose.

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 10:21:56 AM
I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...

They assumed the population would not resist them.  That was a major miscalculation. 

Ukrainians have died for free elections.  I don't think they really cared whether politically, they leaned to Russia vs the EU.  It's always been about living a better life, with freedom.  Ukraine is corrupt, its politicians compromised.  It's messy.  But, it is free and those politicians are democratically elected.  It will take decades, probably a century or two, before Ukraine is free of corruption.  But Ukrainians deserve the freedom they protested and died for.  What they don't deserve is to be a Russian vassal state, for a Russia that is not only authoritarian, but also as corrupt as Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 28, 2022, 10:23:16 AM
This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdiEABLFoo


There's a validity in what he's saying as to why Russian troops are circling and stopping 20 miles out of the major cities, including Kyiv.

This is an excellent explanation.  Perhaps it is true.   

It seems that zelensky  and the West  have rallied the Ukrainians to fight and that will bode badly for them the longer it continues....in my opinion.   It may be considered a 'win' for Europe and the US, as Russia will have a damaged country to siphon some of their resources.   Of course, Russia can raise the price of their natural resources though, so if that happens it will be the common people that pay across Europe.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 28, 2022, 10:27:10 AM

http://www.stcu.int/documents/reports/distribution/tpf/ipf/bio/ua/pdf/UAPRI_IPF_Odesa_Ukraine.pdf (http://www.stcu.int/documents/reports/distribution/tpf/ipf/bio/ua/pdf/UAPRI_IPF_Odesa_Ukraine.pdf)



Hah! Censored!!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 10:31:31 AM

This is an excellent explanation.  Perhaps it is true.   

It seems that zelensky  and the West  have rallied the Ukrainians to fight and that will bode badly for them the longer it continues....in my opinion.   It may be considered a 'win' for Europe and the US, as Russia will have a damaged country to siphon some of their resources.   Of course, Russia can raise the price of their natural resources though, so if that happens it will be the common people that pay across Europe.   

Fathertime!   

No, I think the analysis doesn't take into account that people, in general, don't like to be ruled by foreign powers.  I know people who work in the government of Ukraine, at the highest levels.  I know the several of the lawyers who drafted Ukraine's constitution.  No matter what some here say, their government is not run by the US, or the EU.  Were it, it would be more efficient than it is. That is why Ukrainians are fighting. They don't want a puppet regime installed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 10:34:53 AM

Hah! Censored!!!


I could open it.  It's just a brochure for an epidemiological institute in Odesa.  It studies infectious disease.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 10:49:51 AM
I absolutely agree that's their plan.
Has been all along.

That is a very fine line to tread of invading to.install new regime the general public will accept.

Possible in Ukraine? Yes.

I think it's unlikely ,and becomes more unlikely as this draws out.

So then in Putins chess game ,if that becomes clear it isnt a possibility,  what's next...


I didn't watch it all...as soon as he said Putin is avoiding targeting civilians i turned it off.


How does that tally up with his use of Grad missiles against civilians in Kharkiv today ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 10:51:27 AM

I could open it.  It's just a brochure for an epidemiological institute in Odesa.  It studies infectious disease.


Yep i read it.


Nothing there to justify Putin invading Ukraine and killing civilians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 11:07:00 AM
This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdiEABLFoo


This is total BS.  The guy is a Russian plant.
Sure the civilian population will be happy to be taken over since they aren't being killed and only their soldier husbands and sons are being killed.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 11:08:27 AM
This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdiEABLFoo

Thinking that a city that is supported by nations (outside of Russia) around the world can be starved out is beyond ridiculous.  I guess many haven't even heard of the Berlin airlifts.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 11:10:58 AM
This American guy is inside Kyiv...shares his perspective of how this is really shaping in Ukraine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdiEABLFoo


And more lies about Russia trying to avoid civilian killings.

http://www.google.com/search?q=civilians+being+killed+in+Kharkiv&oq=civilians+being+killed+in+Kharkiv&aqs=chrome..69i57.8664j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 11:14:42 AM
It seems that many European nations are ignoring Mad Vlad's threat regarding Nukes.

Sweden and Germany sending valuable weapons.

Some others sending warplanes.

Will Mad Vlad's Generals ignore his order to launch ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 11:18:07 AM
Wife says that locals in Ukraine have reported that some Belarus soldiers have refused orders to attack into Ukraine.

I don't see anything about that on Internet.

Anyone have info ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 11:46:40 AM
I wanted to come back to make one very important post so you all have a better understanding of what is going on. Forget everything you learned from the media about Ukraine, Afghanistan, politics, and other issues around the world. The truth is our Western media puts out as much propaganda as the media in countries you despise. WE are in an information war and most people's minds do not know what is going on which means most people are incapacitated. How do you resist and fight back when you don't understand there is a problem?

Billy, I thought your absence meant you were in treatment for your hallucinations.

Have you now gone off of your treatment regimen?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 28, 2022, 12:24:42 PM
I wanted to come back to make one very important post ...


BillyB-

I thought you caught the bug and got vaccinated and too embarrassed to come back and admit it here!  :P

C'mon...surely you can post two or 3 more posts?

Is your MIL still in UA, or here with you guys?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 28, 2022, 12:30:42 PM

Wife says that locals in Ukraine have reported that some Belarus soldiers have refused orders to attack into Ukraine.

I don't see anything about that on Internet.

Anyone have info ?



Not sure that Belarus has ordered any on ground yet.  They are coming today in 20 helicopters.
Russians have been walking out for several days.
http://www.unian.ua/war/na-moskvu-svojim-hodom-na-sumshchini-okupanti-kinuli-tehniku-ta-pishli-v-rf-pishki-video-novini-donbasu-11722486.html (http://www.unian.ua/war/na-moskvu-svojim-hodom-na-sumshchini-okupanti-kinuli-tehniku-ta-pishli-v-rf-pishki-video-novini-donbasu-11722486.html)

http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/pod-zaporozhem-okkupanty-brosili-btry-i-sbezhali-na-otzhatyh-avtomobilyah-1605894.html (http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/pod-zaporozhem-okkupanty-brosili-btry-i-sbezhali-na-otzhatyh-avtomobilyah-1605894.html)

"The locals also learned from the Russian military that they were given dry rations for two days, but the invasion dragged on and famine set in."   Also the dry rations given had an expiration date of 2015.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2022, 12:42:48 PM
Billy it's great to see you post on here after what seems a time ago. I've wondered what you would have made of the present situation. I have wondered if all the virus and present situation where we might be dragged into a war is a way to cut down on population. We shall see I guess. Zelensky seems to be gunning to drag the EU/NATO into this conflict and if he succeed for me that spells WWIII. I wonder if it's all a lot of gameplay put on for show and the outcome is already agreed upon that we will end up in a world war to cut the population down. I sincerely hope kit which is why I really hope the war will be kept to Ukraine.

I think you make a good point as to why Russia hasn't gone in more heavy there does indeed seem something curiously amiss there.

I myself have no wish to jump into the ins & outs of talk or evidence of bio labs. That stuff is way too heavy for me to want to indulge. I'm not saying if anyone is wrong or right just that it's not something I wish to entertain. I am generally in favour of Ukraine  but have my on reservations on it all. I don't wish to see Zelensky join or drag the EU & NATO into this and I am hoping there isn't a lot more gameplay at hand than on the face of it.

Only time will tell but for me if there is a move that ropes the EU/NATO into a conflict I will not be a part of it and will be off to avoid it all as best I can.

I personally believe the planet is overpopulated and that it is plausible that these are the ways of cutting down on the population by our leaders. Of course the real big population center is India so I guess that would be the place they should target, maybe too obvious or maybe there is no grand plan, who knows, guess we'll find out soon if they chose to go world war direction with all of this. I recall Krim on here also believed in a Russia/Ukraine war after the virus and terrible things. So perhaps sone people know some things. Either it will happen or it won't I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 01:12:35 PM
If anyone drags NATO into this it will be Mad Vlad ...with his Nuclear Weapons threats.


He wasn't just threatening Ukraine with Nuclear weapons.


You will be part of it if the Nukes start flying..and you can thank Putin for that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 28, 2022, 01:30:40 PM

Ukraine pilots will fly out of Poland airstrips with 70 donated planes from Poland, Bulgaria, Slovakia.
http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/evropa-peredast-ukraine-70-istrebiteley-mig-29-i-su-25-dlya-aviaudarov-po-agressoru-1605977.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 28, 2022, 01:34:04 PM
Ukraine pilots will fly out of Poland airstrips with 70 donated planes from Poland, Bulgaria, Slovakia.
http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/evropa-peredast-ukraine-70-istrebiteley-mig-29-i-su-25-dlya-aviaudarov-po-agressoru-1605977.html (http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/evropa-peredast-ukraine-70-istrebiteley-mig-29-i-su-25-dlya-aviaudarov-po-agressoru-1605977.html)


Interesting. Unless the Ruskies missed an airfield or two, one has to wonder where will they land these planes, fuel and take-off again? I'm certain the Ruskies have satellites too to see these (airfields) from space? Of course, if they fly from and back again in Poland to refuel/re-arm, then technically Poland had joined the war, no?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 01:50:54 PM
Need to be careful of what Ukraine says.


The President thanked Turkey for closing access to the Black Sea to Russian naval forces....when they hadn't.


It would be asking for trouble from Russia if Ukrainian fighters are flying in and out of Poland,unless NATO want to use Russia bombing Polish airfields as a pretext to bring them into the war.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 28, 2022, 01:51:34 PM

I could open it.  It's just a brochure for an epidemiological institute in Odesa.  It studies infectious disease.

Bio labs are understandably the new catch phrase of conspiracy.

They are needed,are generally everywhere (making conspiracy ties easy)
and instrumental in forwarding healthcare.

I do wish there were even more stringent regulations world wide regarding what is reasonably safe in the direction of research.

But it is pretty far out there to thinkn
 putins hitting biolabs as a good guy .
Im.sure he might try to spin it though along with  thst nazi line


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 01:57:41 PM
Need to be careful of what Ukraine says.


The President thanked Turkey for closing access to the Black Sea to Russian naval forces....when they hadn't.


It would be asking for trouble from Russia if Ukrainian fighters are flying in and out of Poland,unless NATO want to use Russia bombing Polish airfields as a pretext to bring them into the war.

http://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-implement-international-pact-access-shipping-straits-due-ukraine-war-2022-02-27/ (http://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-implement-international-pact-access-shipping-straits-due-ukraine-war-2022-02-27/)



I assume Zelensky was told of the impending meeting in Turkey, and the inevitable outcome.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 28, 2022, 01:58:05 PM

I didn't watch it all...as soon as he said Putin is avoiding targeting civilians i turned it off.


How does that tally up with his use of Grad missiles against civilians in Kharkiv today ?
I'm no putin apologist.
I recognize that he hasnt hit as hard as he could have ,and he has self interest in that.

Certainly there are civilian causalities and since I have family there it's a huge concern.

There is no  legitimate excuse for invading Ukraine.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 28, 2022, 01:59:26 PM
Yeah it sounds to reason that they would have lost similar to the Russians. The other figures I think we're just for civilians though that figure may have not been all that certain or a daily figure.

The general idea I get is that the two sides seem fairly evenly matched with the cities giving the Ukrainians a good defensive position. Apparently the main bulk of Russia's Army hadn't reached Kyiv yet so they are kind off making pretty slow progress.

If the Russian economy starts to do real bad then that is what might end this war for the Russians, eventually.


I think you misread what i posted Trench.


It was Russian losses the Ukrainian President spoke about.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on February 28, 2022, 02:07:32 PM

Interesting. Unless the Ruskies missed an airfield or two, one has to wonder where will they land these planes, fuel and take-off again? I'm certain the Ruskies have satellites too to see these (airfields) from space? Of course, if they fly from and back again in Poland to refuel/re-arm, then technically Poland had joined the war, no?

They dint miss ahh major ones.
That said they did not detroy or completely incapacitate  the ones they hit .


Oddly with the overwhelmingly amount of air power they have , it hasnt really been used.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2022, 03:32:20 PM

I think you misread what i posted Trench.


It was Russian losses the Ukrainian President spoke about.

Ah yeah just looked up. That's the interesting thing that Ukraine won't state the number of soldiers they have lost. They seem to know how many Russia has lost but not their own side, curious? While I'm sympathetic towards Ukraine's struggle I'm not sure they are being transparent with us as they should be in what they put out. In particular I am wary of Zelensky and his attempts to try and get the EU/NATO into this. Today he was videoed putting in an application to join the EU, that's something that would not be right to happen I believe.

Aside from trying to drag in Europe into a world war as we know the EU tends to have its own version of stifling a country of independence and self governance.

My guess as a military genius suggests that Ukraine is likely blowing just as many men as Russia, roughly almost a thousand a day. Some reports out today suggest that Putin may be willing to lose 50,000 Russian troops by sticking with surgical strikes rather than pins Ukraine with missiles. That suggests to me that he doesn't wish to have a chapter in the history books on how he butchered Ukrainian civilians en-masse. Russian troop losses are easier to explain as that which comes with war. Civilians losing many loved ones will of course be ingrained on minds for much longer and that would make future Russian/Ukrainian relations very difficult indeed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on February 28, 2022, 03:55:07 PM
They dint miss ahh major ones.
That said they did not detroy or completely incapacitate  the ones they hit .


Oddly with the overwhelmingly amount of air power they have , it hasnt really been used.

Hardly at all. It doesn't look at all like an invasion even when watching the news. The trains are still running on time. With Russia's firepower in an invasion, one would expect communications, roads, bridges, trains and utilities to be the first thing to go. Not the case here yet, we're still not getting much truth in news but we've come to expect that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 04:10:31 PM
My SIL has been sitting either in the bathroom of her apartment (no outside walls) or in a shelter since Friday.  Why?  Because bombs have been falling continuously. She hears continuous shooting.  She lives near a municipal airport.  Also about 1 km from a rail station that supplies the city with goods, and where things are loaded for distribution.  She has listened to children crying for days.  She learned a family she knows was gunned down by Russian soldiers on the road to an escape.  Internet is intermittent, as we've learned in trying to communicate with her.

Today, she told hubby that Kyiv is encircled by fire. 

My husband's cousin took her children and very young grandchildren to her husband's village, where they have a dacha (the home he grew up in).  They were worried for the safety of the children.

I guess I should tell both of them that someone on the internet says there is no invasion, and that it's all a fantasy in their heads.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on February 28, 2022, 04:26:51 PM
They dint miss ahh major ones.
That said they did not detroy or completely incapacitate  the ones they hit .

Oddly with the overwhelmingly amount of air power they have , it hasnt really been used.


I agree. Which I would go back to what the guy upthread said. This invasion wasn't planned for total annihilation of Ukraine e.g USA-style, but rather to replace the political body, good or bad - just or unjustly; that would ultimately be more pro-Russian.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on February 28, 2022, 04:42:43 PM

I guess I should tell both of them that someone on the internet says there is no invasion, and that it's all a fantasy in their heads.

I didn't say there was no invasion. What do I know, I'm not there? You should tell them to make sure they're jabbed, triple mask and social distance at the dacha.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 28, 2022, 04:45:04 PM
Wife talked to a friend in Ukraine today.
This woman had received a phone call from an in-law of hers who lives in SPb, Russia.
The woman in Russia said: 
Don't worry, soon Putin will take you over and then everything will be OK.
The Ukrainian woman immediately ended the phone call and blocked the woman from ever calling her again.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 04:47:27 PM
I didn't say there was no invasion. What do I know, I'm not there? You should tell them to make sure they're jabbed, triple mask and social distance at the dacha.


The adults are vaccinated. 


I am telling you what's going on, yet you blame the "West" for a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation.  People are dying needlessly, and no, the West didn't orchestrate this invasion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on February 28, 2022, 04:53:32 PM

The adults are vaccinated. 


I am telling you what's going on, yet you blame the "West" for a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation.  People are dying needlessly, and no, the West didn't orchestrate this invasion.

Really? Where exactly did I state that?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
There unfortunately seems to be a dangerous momentum for approving Ukraine for EU Membership:

http://inews.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-eu-will-join-membership-european-union-what-happened-why-hasnt-joined-explained-1489006

Whether that will happen during the invasion or after a Ukrainian victory who knows. Of course if Russia wins Ukraine won't be joining the EU, the only upside perhaps. Today Zelensky put in an application to formally apply to join the EU but no referendum of its citizens had taken place to ask them if they wish to join the EU? Democratic? Automatically out the window by the looks of it from the get go.

If Ukraine joined the EU will the, 'If one is attacked we are all attacked' be the case thereby committing all member states to the fight against Russia?

That of course could have a knock on effect to NATO members who are not part of the EU like the UK & US. If the Eastern Bloc EU member states get dragged into war that way then as NATO members we might be too. That I don't believe is a just system to drag us into war by trickery.

I think more questions and scrutiny needs to be made of Zelensky's efforts to get Ukraine admitted to the EU. After all until recent Ukraine was not in a decent enough economic position to join the EU and reforms to counter corruption and other reforms had not been extensive enough. Yet here all of a sudden none of that matters that was supposed to even when their economy is likely much worse than it was a couple of years or so ago. Even if they join the EU one way or another I can see no good coming of it. I'm certainly glad we left.

I think this is potentially a very real danger of causing a world war which we should all be trying to avoid.

Just read this article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-join-eu-parliament-war-b2025174.html

Apparently it is just candidate status that is awarded first and it's a process that can take many years (typical EU) so with a bit of luck it won't be rammed through quickly. So just have to hope the same holds true and we won't be fast tracked to WWIII.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on February 28, 2022, 07:54:00 PM



Alright, a couple more posts. One here and one on vaccines later on to let you know what it's doing to your body. Your western leaders of the new world order are no angels I tell ya. First funding the creation of the virus and releasing it and now forcing something into your body that doesn't work and will shorten your life span.


My MIL is in Ukraine to answer GQ's question.


It doesn't matter what I think if your neighbor is manufacturing experimental drugs. I could claim your neighbor is making the drugs in a safe responsible manner and for a good reason but you have the right to call the cops to shut it down. Russia has no cops to call so they have the right to police the creation of super viruses and bacteria next door. Some call it gain of function research and others call it weapons of mass destruction. There is no conspiracy. Its a fact Ukraine has numerous biolabs funded by the West including by civilians such as Soros involved in creating the worlds worst pathogens under the disguise of finding better medicine. Ask yourself why America and Europe doesn't build these labs at home but instead build it in a country where corruption is rampant, security is loose, and it would enrage one of the most powerful nations on earth. They aren't stupid. They put Ukraine in danger of war on purpose. They have used Ukraine like a cheap hooker. Biolabs isn't the sole reason Russia is invading but it's just one of many Deep State projects that Russia wants to shut down.


As Ukraine signs for EU membership during an invasion further enraging Russia, Belarus has a referendum approving themselves to be a nuclear state which allows them to receive Russian nukes. Nations are starting to form alliances like they did before WWI and WWII. Don't you guy see what is happening? Our Western leaders every move moves us closer to world war.


http://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/02/28/eu-decries-potential-russian-nuclear-weapons-deployment-after-belarus-referendum/ (http://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/02/28/eu-decries-potential-russian-nuclear-weapons-deployment-after-belarus-referendum/)

Besides claiming to fight for Ukraine, the Ukrainian prime minister said they're also fighting on behalf of the New World Order. That should enrage Putin. Putin once said the New World Order worships Satan. Putin is right about that. Their releasing of a bioweapon and experimental vaccines on the world is proof.

http://t.me/behizy/2696 (http://t.me/behizy/2696)

You guys know there's been constant war around the world for the last 20 years but we only get mad when they tell us to get mad? Don't let them manipulate you into supporting escalating aggression that could turn into world war where hundreds of millions will die, borders change, and the resetting of economies will happen. If you end up surviving, you may not like the results.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 28, 2022, 08:48:09 PM

As Ukraine signs for EU membership during an invasion further enraging Russia, Belarus has a referendum approving themselves to be a nuclear state which allows them to receive Russian nukes. Nations are starting to form alliances like they did before WWI and WWII. Don't you guy see what is happening? Our Western leaders every move moves us closer to world war.


I recall making this point several years ago here regarding Russia giving their Nukes to their friends.   The forum know it alls poopoo'ed the thought of it.   It's much closer to reality now.  Syria gets bombed from time to time by Israel (US supports this), give them a few nukes too, and the bombing stops. 
I see the West as trying very hard to provoke war, a war that will only produce losers.  The people in South America, Africa, India, and around the globe don't need to pay consequences of a war with nuclear weapons.  Not to mention regular people in the nations involved.   


You guys know there's been constant war around the world for the last 20 years but we only get mad when they tell us to get mad? Don't let them manipulate you into supporting escalating aggression that could turn into world war where hundreds of millions will die, borders change, and the resetting of economies will happen. If you end up surviving, you may not like the results.[/size]
I was listening to talk radio on the way home today.  Commentator said that the US and Europe have confiscated trillions in Russian money.   Once this battle is over, and the West tries to hold it, Russia will seemingly have little way to get their money returned....seemingly.   How much is Hawaii worth.   Drop a nuclear bomb beneath the ocean creating a tsunami wiping out all the people and islands...and they call it even, everybody loses, especially a few million people on the islands.    The few cards Russia has to play are related to nuclear weaponry, and I think Putin would use those weapons if backed into a corner.  Biden like a bellicose baboon flinging feces, seems to be intentionally trying to back Putin in that corner covered with feces and a dunce cap.   Russia is about to level Ukraine, and the US is talking about sending more weaponry.  There will be nobody left to operate the weaponry, there will be no buildings to run for cover in.   I hope what I say is incorrect, but it seems to me the polite and finesse takeover hasn't worked according to plan....I hope most all the civilians find a way out asap.

Fathertime! 




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 28, 2022, 09:22:33 PM
  Commentator said that the US and Europe have confiscated trillions in Russian money.   
How would they know that?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on February 28, 2022, 09:36:35 PM
How would they know that?
You are probably correct, it was talk radio and he may have just pulled that number from his ass.   He did reiterate the trillions figure.   I also question the number, but perhaps it is possible.  It seems billions would be more accurate though. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on February 28, 2022, 10:40:46 PM
If the Russians were called to withdraw to the borders quickly...It may mean that a chemical attack is next on the agenda.
 Probably not enough gas masks to go around.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2022, 11:38:43 PM
Really? Where exactly did I state that?


From elsewhere -

Quote
All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on March 01, 2022, 05:26:16 AM
yet you blame the "West" for a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation.
From elsewhere -
All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict.

Swing and a miss! Would you like to try again? And please, stay on topic this time
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 01, 2022, 05:29:39 AM
why swing and miss?  I also read your post elsewhere.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 01, 2022, 07:40:01 AM
At the current condition Ukraine finds itself in, I fail to see the point of the whole drama the EU made about accepting Ukraine’s application to join the Union. I thought one of the fundamental requirement for admittance was a country must first proved its void of government corruption, and prior to the invasion, it was deemed Ukraine wasn’t quite there yet?

Now if this was for show, and rather ‘accepting’ an application was a symbol of some silly unity theatrics, wouldn’t this just became a stupid act of stoking the fire at a very bad time for Ukraine/Zelensky?

Not all good intentions yield desired result. Sometimes it only results to a very bad decision. Methinks someone just inked someone’s death certificate here.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 01, 2022, 07:59:41 AM
Putin must be getting desperate ...Belarus troops have now entered Ukraine,no doubt at his bidding.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 01, 2022, 09:49:47 AM
At the current condition Ukraine finds itself in, I fail to see the point of the whole drama the EU made about accepting Ukraine’s application to join the Union. I thought one of the fundamental requirement for admittance was a country must first proved its void of government corruption, and prior to the invasion, it was deemed Ukraine wasn’t quite there yet?

Now if this was for show, and rather ‘accepting’ an application was a symbol of some silly unity theatrics, wouldn’t this just became a stupid act of stoking the fire at a very bad time for Ukraine/Zelensky?

Not all good intentions yield desired result. Sometimes it only results to a very bad decision. Methinks someone just inked someone’s death certificate here.

That I find very true GQ, when some people bang on about stuff that sounds like its a great moralistic thing the end result doesn't necessarily match up. They are so caught up on the high morals of it all they fail to look any further as too actually looking into the results of such a stance they think it will be great but they fail to realise that's just a presumed assumption not necessarily the outcome.

Well Ukraine is apparently seeking a fast track to EU membership that apparently doesn't exist. As this article amount others tellks us EU membership takes many, many years moreso if the economy of the country applying is not in shape and able to adopt the Euro:

http://www.ft.com/content/a64c2b7a-dda4-4452-ad04-f308ff26e694

I believe you are right also in corruption being an issue that has to be ironed out as well. So currently under current rules applied as they should be Ukraine shouldn't have a hope in hell of joining. Unfortunately Zelensky is on a acting performance worthy of a Golden Globe and wants to ride high on the outpouring of support for Ukraine all the way into the EU on a quick easy in just for Ukraine. As you rightly say that will be like writing a death warrant. While I'm sympathetic to Ukraine I think people need to really calm down now and not let Zelensky take advantage unduly by what will in affect chain us up with him into a world war.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 01, 2022, 10:37:23 AM
60 kilometers of troop convoy heading to Kyiv. Now that the countries who announced sending war planes to Ukraine thought better of it and rescinded that nutty idea, I hope Zelensky take this time to usher all the civilians still inside the capital to leave. This should be one of his prime objective during these ceasefire negotiations that is ongoing, instead of asking civilians to take up arms.


I respect him wanting to stay behind to fight till the end. All those willing to die for their country, too. But at least give the women and children the time to leave unharmed out of the capital. Give the saber rattling a rest and stop playing hero ball. Zelensky shouldn't take as many Ukrainians with him because that's exactly what's going to happen soon, especially with the west stoking every bit of this conflict as hard as it does.


Zelensky is totting the fine line of using his people as human shield. Learn what happened in Aleppo, Syria. You don't have much time.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 01, 2022, 11:12:00 AM
I dont think he is impeding any women and children leaving? I think on the ground there it is actually being encouraged if possible.
   Although that may not be the sound bite for tv or media coverage?. If you need aid. You  play the best card of human suffering to your audience, and honestly why not? He was  partially put in this situation by those that,  if wanting to play in ukraines politics,should be sending in aid or not play in the first place, bay of pigs style?

The russian  troops certainly are part of that issue regarding Kyiv citizens leaving, or having any thought of that in any large numbers.

It's an issue in my mil case in Nikolaev.
While the troops are not in.the city today ,there are no buses or rail.running and the russian troops  do stop anyone leaving on any roadway in or out.
Theres still.direct skirmishes and bombing as well
 
So it's not like they can  just simply walk out,or get a mashruka , taxi.or.private car
Nor is Zelensky is in any position to help his civilian.population leave if he choose to.

It's a mess, and we can all point fingers all day at the various parties and policies that.shaped this,and continue to,but like always it's the common people who pay.

One things for certain, carried out in this manner,  a new regime Putin puts in of any of his cronies will be facing nothing but huge issues on.many fronts ,politically,economically ,logistically in rebuilding,and most likely a continued resistance that ultimately they cant control.
If they crushed Ukraine tomorrow,  odds are high they face a decade if strife and it regains independence anyway .
If its held it will still have Russua as the old. Ighieman in world view and both countries economic outlooks will be lower than pre invasion.
All this  will likely be for nought.

How world leaders cant see 10 steps ahead is weird.
Putin is typically much better at political chess

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 01, 2022, 01:44:37 PM
OH… MY… GOD

Q: “What’s going on in Ukraine?”

Kamala Harris: “Ukraine is a country in Europe. It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine so basically that’s wrong.”

http://imgur.com/a/dHypwm8 (http://imgur.com/a/dHypwm8)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 01, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
OH… MY… GOD

Q: “What’s going on in Ukraine?”

Kamala Harris: “Ukraine is a country in Europe. It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine so basically that’s wrong.”

http://imgur.com/a/dHypwm8 (http://imgur.com/a/dHypwm8)
I'll assume that was her.   I don't object to the way she spoke because considering her audience they needed a lesson on the basics I'm sure....the audience is probably young with NO clue about either country.... that show listeners probably couldn't care less about Russia or Ukraine.  I don't know anything about the 'morning hustle'. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 01, 2022, 02:04:37 PM
Reports and photos show a column of Russian tanks and trucks some 40 miles long headed for Kyiv.

Seems like that would be the perfect opportunity to throw all the Javelins available at them.  With that string, there would be no misses.

If some planes were available, they could do the same thing.

What am I missing here ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 01, 2022, 02:50:36 PM
Putin must be getting desperate ...Belarus troops have now entered Ukraine,no doubt at his bidding.


Belarussian troops are now in Kyiv, according to my sources on the ground.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 01, 2022, 02:52:46 PM
It's almost impossible to leave Kyiv.  People, including entire families, have been shot by Russian forces in their attempt to flee.  If a person doesn't have a vehicle, it is now impossible.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 01, 2022, 02:57:42 PM
The Russians are now bombing civilian areas in Kharkhiv and Kyiv indiscriminately.  This is a tactic they've used in all their wars. 


I think sanctions have to be broadened.  No Russian oil/gas in the West.  No wheat.  All bank accounts of Russian citizens locked, with a legal mechanism to get them unlocked for cause.  Property abroad confiscated if the citizens are tied to the regime.  The pressure has to come from within. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 01, 2022, 03:53:55 PM
I think sanctions have to be broadened.  No Russian oil/gas in the West.  No wheat.  All bank accounts of Russian citizens locked, with a legal mechanism to get them unlocked for cause.  Property abroad confiscated if the citizens are tied to the regime.  The pressure has to come from within.

I agree. 
News reporters crying that if Russian oil cut off, prices will rise in the west. 
Who gives a shit about that?? 
I will willingly pay any price for gas and oil to stop Russia. 
Going to cost us a lot more in reconstruction expenses.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 01, 2022, 04:18:30 PM
It's almost impossible to leave Kyiv.  People, including entire families, have been shot by Russian forces in their attempt to flee.  If a person doesn't have a vehicle, it is now impossible.

at least 2 full trains from Kyiv arrived today in Poland.
I have a couple of friends in Poland at the trainstation helping with transports who was there when they both arrived.

One of the trains went back to Ukraine half filled with (mainly Ukrainian) men who lived and worked in West Europe, to join the defense. 

Have no idea how long they will keep that up though.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 01, 2022, 04:50:17 PM
I dont think he is impeding any women and children leaving? I think on the ground there it is actually being encouraged if possible.
   Although that may not be the sound bite for tv or media coverage?. If you need aid. You  play the best card of human suffering to your audience, and honestly why not? He was  partially put in this situation by those that,  if wanting to play in ukraines politics,should be sending in aid or not play in the first place, bay of pigs style?

The russian  troops certainly are part of that issue regarding Kyiv citizens leaving, or having any thought of that in any large numbers.

It's an issue in my mil case in Nikolaev.
While the troops are not in.the city today ,there are no buses or rail.running and the russian troops  do stop anyone leaving on any roadway in or out.
Theres still.direct skirmishes and bombing as well
 
So it's not like they can  just simply walk out,or get a mashruka , taxi.or.private car
Nor is Zelensky is in any position to help his civilian.population leave if he choose to.

It's a mess, and we can all point fingers all day at the various parties and policies that.shaped this,and continue to,but like always it's the common people who pay.

One things for certain, carried out in this manner,  a new regime Putin puts in of any of his cronies will be facing nothing but huge issues on.many fronts ,politically,economically ,logistically in rebuilding,and most likely a continued resistance that ultimately they cant control.
If they crushed Ukraine tomorrow,  odds are high they face a decade if strife and it regains independence anyway .
If its held it will still have Russua as the old. Ighieman in world view and both countries economic outlooks will be lower than pre invasion.
All this  will likely be for nought.

How world leaders cant see 10 steps ahead is weird.
Putin is typically much better at political chess

This isn't difficult, AJ.

The core intent of this whole crap is Russian wanting to install a pro-Russian political body over the current one. In a way, just like what happened in 2014. Different method, same objective.

I know this seems so wacky, but given some thoughts, the USA, along with its allies, did exactly that in Libya at far bloodier than what we've seen in Ukraine so far. Heck, we gangbanged Libya (US, Europe, Canada, et al for its oil). The US attempted doing that in Cuba, did it in Iraq, Afghanistan. Succeeded doing exactly that in many So. American nations, etc...Europeans had done exactly that in Africa, Asia, Europe, etc...

Hell, we (US & NATO) bombed Serbia's civilian proper for 75 straight days because we want NATO to take hold in the region, and oust Milosevic at the same time, remember that?

Isn't it funny how certain similar things are perceived differently?

Again, if Zelensky's priority is with the people of Ukraine, make their safe passage out of Kyiv the very top condition in the negotiations, or his ousting in return to Russian army retreating back to Russia. I mean, the Shah left, so this isn't unprecedented. If he exiles himself, along with other politicians deemed anti-Russian, but Ukraine and all of its people can return back in peace, is his 'presidency' really that much more important than Ukraine itself?

Of course, his other option is dying fighting for whatever cause he feels, along with untold number of innocent Ukrainians, and maybe even Ukraine itself.


Just like what the 'west' did in Libya and Qadafi.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 01, 2022, 05:15:05 PM
Having been in the middle east in my younger days, I don't perceive those things as significantly different.

Regular people are routinely sacrificed for the self interest of major powers and the wealthy that influence them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 01, 2022, 06:33:26 PM
To be honest men in Ukraine could probably leave if they wanted too, if not already in a city that is surrounded. The border with EU countries is so long that its merely a case of by-passing checkpoints by a considerable distance. Odds are if there was anything much in the way of border patrols on the Ukrainian side they will have been called away to the front. Border guards on the EU side will just treat them as any other asylum seeker so they aren't party to enforcing the 18-60 rule being another nation.

Other than not in Ukraine the area southwest of Lviv is probably the safest place to be in Ukraine right now and will likely be until the very end if the Russians adavance all the way in. So the Ukrainian 18-60 rule probably doesnt have a lot of teeth in reality unless stuck in an area surrounded by the Russians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 01, 2022, 08:02:11 PM
There was continued bombing in Nikolaev today, also another troop assualt brought in by ships. In the vid I saw it was a pretty big line of them.
Because of rough seas  during the   drop ,the landing force was hampered, some drowned and this aided the defenders. At the moment the Russian troops have again pulled back some.
Niko is still in Ukrainian troops hands for now.
I have my doubts about tonight :(
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 01, 2022, 08:04:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyWpNyE7Lyw
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Davo on March 01, 2022, 08:11:28 PM
 http://youtu.be/x47eNyXmPDo
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 01, 2022, 09:13:01 PM

10,000 vehicles entering Sumy area
http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/others/v-suskuyu-oblast-zashlo-bolee-10-tysyach-rossiyskih-tankov-zhivickiy-1606221.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 01, 2022, 11:45:19 PM
Planes are bombing Kyiv right now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 02, 2022, 01:01:52 AM
Apparently Kherson has or is about to fall, the city's Mayor has pretty much said so:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/mayor-of-kherson-in-southern-ukraine-occupation-of-our-city-is-under-way/

Russian troops have taken the port and the railway station. Whether Ukrainian forces are holding out in the rest of the city who knows. Kherson is surrounded so it's either a case of surrender there or fight to the death for Ukrainian soldiers there, that or mixing in with the local population but that is pretty much surrender anyway. Repealing the Russians looks unlikely there. If Kherson  girl is there she'll be in for a bit of a time of it.

Mariupol too is in much the same situation, surrounded with heavy shelling. The first girl I met in Kyiv was from Mariupol so she will be in much the same circumstance.

Looks like overall Russian forces are starting to break through as the pressure mounts on Ukrainian troops.

Article also states that Russian forces have linked up with Separatists along the Azov sea which is what I mentioned they were likely looking to do last night.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on March 02, 2022, 08:35:24 AM
This isn't difficult, AJ.

The core intent of this whole crap is Russian wanting to install a pro-Russian political body over the current one. In a way, just like what happened in 2014. Different method, same objective.

I know this seems so wacky, but given some thoughts, the USA, along with its allies, did exactly that in Libya at far bloodier than what we've seen in Ukraine so far. Heck, we gangbanged Libya (US, Europe, Canada, et al for its oil). The US attempted doing that in Cuba, did it in Iraq, Afghanistan. Succeeded doing exactly that in many So. American nations, etc...Europeans had done exactly that in Africa, Asia, Europe, etc...

Hell, we (US & NATO) bombed Serbia's civilian proper for 75 straight days because we want NATO to take hold in the region, and oust Milosevic at the same time, remember that?

Isn't it funny how certain similar things are perceived differently?

Again, if Zelensky's priority is with the people of Ukraine, make their safe passage out of Kyiv the very top condition in the negotiations, or his ousting in return to Russian army retreating back to Russia. I mean, the Shah left, so this isn't unprecedented. If he exiles himself, along with other politicians deemed anti-Russian, but Ukraine and all of its people can return back in peace, is his 'presidency' really that much more important than Ukraine itself?

Of course, his other option is dying fighting for whatever cause he feels, along with untold number of innocent Ukrainians, and maybe even Ukraine itself.


Just like what the 'west' did in Libya and Qadafi.

Hi GQ. 

I don't know you in real life.  Perhaps you are swell guy.

Today T is flying from Boston to Warsaw.  She will head over to do what she can to help.

We all have our viewpoints.  You seem to constantly spread the bulls**t that Putin and Kremlin regurgitates.  Your choice, of course.  We have that freedom in America.

You are saying it is ok to invade another nation, to bomb it's cities, to subdue, expel and replace it's overwhelmingly patriotic  population with what another nation's Dictator wants.

As we've seen in the many signs and exchanges in Ukraine to Russia, go f"" yourself.  Idi Nahuey.

Slava Ukraini

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 09:05:17 AM
This isn't difficult, AJ.

The core intent of this whole crap is Russian wanting to install a pro-Russian political body over the current one. In a way, just like what happened in 2014. Different method, same objective.

I know this seems so wacky, but given some thoughts, the USA, along with its allies, did exactly that in Libya at far bloodier than what we've seen in Ukraine so far. Heck, we gangbanged Libya (US, Europe, Canada, et al for its oil). The US attempted doing that in Cuba, did it in Iraq, Afghanistan. Succeeded doing exactly that in many So. American nations, etc...Europeans had done exactly that in Africa, Asia, Europe, etc...

Hell, we (US & NATO) bombed Serbia's civilian proper for 75 straight days because we want NATO to take hold in the region, and oust Milosevic at the same time, remember that?

Isn't it funny how certain similar things are perceived differently?

Again, if Zelensky's priority is with the people of Ukraine, make their safe passage out of Kyiv the very top condition in the negotiations, or his ousting in return to Russian army retreating back to Russia. I mean, the Shah left, so this isn't unprecedented. If he exiles himself, along with other politicians deemed anti-Russian, but Ukraine and all of its people can return back in peace, is his 'presidency' really that much more important than Ukraine itself?

Of course, his other option is dying fighting for whatever cause he feels, along with untold number of innocent Ukrainians, and maybe even Ukraine itself.


Just like what the 'west' did in Libya and Qadafi.

While I get the personal connection on this particular website to Ukraine, it's still good to try to see things as logically as possible. 

Russia is acting as poorly as we (The US) often are.  Russia doesn't have the resources to get things done as politely as we do, which results in more brute force. 

while western media tries to control the narrative entirely (Leaving out legit Russian concerns) Aside from Europe, there is a lot of world out there, and much of that world isn't going to side with the Europe and the US on this. 

Ukraine is being used in an awful way. It is clear that Russia will continue to be as brutal as it has to be to achieve its goals.  Ukrainians would like to fight, aside for their desires to fight they are fueled by false hope they are supported fully by Europe and North America.   From a finaincial and reputation standpoint Russia is being punished greatly, but we wanted to do that to begin with.  We wanted to torpedo their pipeline, so now that these missions are accomplished, Ukraine will mostly be left to fend for themselves.  They should do whatever is in their own self-interest while remaining clear eyed regarding what they actually expect from the outside.   

Fathertime!   

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 02, 2022, 09:51:45 AM
What choices do they have at this point?

The idea that zelensky lead them along is one possibility.
The other is,that no matter who was their president, if it was not a putin puppet ,they would be facing a forced regime change is fairly obvious.
So are they fighting for Ze? Or for an ideology and hope of actually being independent and  of a better economically positioned ukrainevif tied more closely with  Europe.

Perhaps, just perhaps they tire of the
ration of breadcrumbs dished out old Soviet style.

There is that possibility.

Good old George ,if losing to a far superior  global force would look.much like GQs portrayal of Ze.

But maybe it wasn't the leader that defined that destiny.
Maybe it was general unrest against corruption, authoritarian non existant representation and an event to spark it.
Invasions might do that.

More sadly the underdog typically loses and the winner writes the history
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:03:02 AM
Hi GQ. 

I don't know you in real life.  Perhaps you are swell guy.

Today T is flying from Boston to Warsaw.  She will head over to do what she can to help.

We all have our viewpoints.  You seem to constantly spread the bulls**t that Putin and Kremlin regurgitates.  Your choice, of course.  We have that freedom in America.

You are saying it is ok to invade another nation, to bomb it's cities, to subdue, expel and replace it's overwhelmingly patriotic  population with what another nation's Dictator wants.

As we've seen in the many signs and exchanges in Ukraine to Russia, go f"" yourself.  Idi Nahuey.

Slava Ukraini


Funny. I hope that made you feel much better. As is always the case, certain caustic post are allowed to remain depending on who posts.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 10:16:41 AM

Funny. I hope that made you feel much better. As is always the case, certain caustic post are allowed to remain depending on who posts.
More likely, the most frequent violators of forum guidelines have posts removed more frequently. They, predictably, complain about uneven moderation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:18:04 AM
Was watching a lot of reports from the BBC channel yesterday. Mostly regurgitated snippets of videos that's been played over and over again. Half the telecast shows the current plight of the refugees of this war. From Poland to Slovakia to Hungary and even Moldova. With the exception of the latter, I've been to each of those locale.


I am elated to see these nations open their borders widely for these arriving folks, Ukrainians and foreigners alike.


It wasn't too long ago when we witnessed the very same plight of refugees from Syria when that war broke out. Again, many nations opened their borders to welcome these folks.


I am however taken aback when the north African refugees, mostly from Libya, when we invaded and bombed that nation back to stone age, took flight to cross the sea that divide their war torn nation hope to reach Europe and many, if not most, fell to their death in the high seas, or gunned down by paid militants, or stopped at their departure points. Predictably, those moments weren't televised on western media, including the day/night bombing unto oblivion of Libya.


Joe Biden was asked yesterday at the SOTU shindig if he thinks Zelensky should leave Ukraine, to which he responded 'that's Zelensky's decision''. Sleepy Joe is hardly ever right in many of his decisions, but I would agree with him on this one. It is Zelensky's decision. The decision to stay and fight. I watch him everyday, along with the Klitschko brothers, saying the same thing.


One can only marvel at their collective bravery. You just know by watching them what is in their hearts. Misguided as it may be. People used to always say FSU folks are pragmatic folks. I myself laid witness to this at times.


Just not all the time. In the end, IMHO, UKraine matters more than any one, two even 3 persons. But that's just me.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:23:12 AM
More likely, the most frequent violators of forum guidelines have posts removed more frequently. They, predictably, complain about uneven moderation.


Dan, I wasn't complaining. I simply noted what was evident.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 10:23:22 AM
This isn't difficult, AJ.

The core intent of this whole crap is Russian wanting to install a pro-Russian political body over the current one. In a way, just like what happened in 2014. Different method, same objective.

I know this seems so wacky, but given some thoughts, the USA, along with its allies, did exactly that in Libya at far bloodier than what we've seen in Ukraine so far. Heck, we gangbanged Libya (US, Europe, Canada, et al for its oil). The US attempted doing that in Cuba, did it in Iraq, Afghanistan. Succeeded doing exactly that in many So. American nations, etc...Europeans had done exactly that in Africa, Asia, Europe, etc...

Hell, we (US & NATO) bombed Serbia's civilian proper for 75 straight days because we want NATO to take hold in the region, and oust Milosevic at the same time, remember that?

Isn't it funny how certain similar things are perceived differently?

Again, if Zelensky's priority is with the people of Ukraine, make their safe passage out of Kyiv the very top condition in the negotiations, or his ousting in return to Russian army retreating back to Russia. I mean, the Shah left, so this isn't unprecedented. If he exiles himself, along with other politicians deemed anti-Russian, but Ukraine and all of its people can return back in peace, is his 'presidency' really that much more important than Ukraine itself?

Of course, his other option is dying fighting for whatever cause he feels, along with untold number of innocent Ukrainians, and maybe even Ukraine itself.


Just like what the 'west' did in Libya and Qadafi.
Red Text = Appeal to hypocrisy. A tactic used to distract from the central issue. Totally irrelevant in addressing the CURRENT SITUATION.

Blue text = Failure to understand the ideologies in play.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 10:23:46 AM

Dan, I wasn't complaining. I simply noted what was evident.
As was I.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:28:04 AM
Red Text = Appeal to hypocrisy. A tactic used to distract from the central issue. Totally irrelevant in addressing the CURRENT SITUATION.


I don't agree. You have the hypocrisy issue in reverse.

Quote
Blue text = Failure to understand the ideologies in play.


What's more ideal than NOT implicating the innocent lives that are at stake in this war? IMHO, this was LARGELY avoidable.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
As was I.


I'm elated you agree.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 10:37:19 AM

I don't agree. You have the hypocrisy issue in reverse.


What's more ideal than NOT implicating the innocent lives that are at stake in this war? IMHO, this was LARGELY avoidable.

Milosevic has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW. Libya has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW. Cuba has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW.

No, I do not have the "hypocrisy issue in reverse." Apparently you don't recognize your own appeal to hypocrisy to use as a bolster for your argument.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 10:42:55 AM

I'm elated you agree.
Don't confuse confirmation with agreement.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:43:52 AM
Milosevic has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW. Libya has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW. Cuba has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW.

No, I do not have the "hypocrisy issue in reverse." Apparently you don't recognize your own appeal to hypocrisy to use as a bolster for your argument.


Like I said, I disagree with you. The same historical events repeating itself with the same motives, ambitions and cause. I am in fact deeply saddened the current war is happening in Ukraine, as I did when it happened in Libya, Syria, Iraq et al. History repeating itself, and calling it out, is NOT being hypocritical simply because the perpetrators changed side.


Barbarism and evil isn't simply classified on who is pulling the trigger.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 10:44:51 AM
Don't confuse confirmation with agreement.


Then that's simply another one we can agree to disagree on. That's life.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 10:50:11 AM

Like I said, I disagree with you. The same historical events repeating itself with the same motives, ambitions and cause. I am in fact deeply saddened the current war is happening in Ukraine, as I did when it happened in Libya, Syria, Iraq et al. History repeating itself, and calling it out, is NOT being hypocritical simply because the perpetrators changed side.


Barbarism and evil isn't simply classified on who is pulling the trigger.
Not true. You presented a one-dimensional perspective of past events involving US/West powers that you perceive as evil and present them alongside the current situation in Ukraine. One has nothing to do with the other. Especially when your one-dimensional perspective FAILS to present the CURRENT aggressor and their past events.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 11:06:30 AM
Not true. You presented a one-dimensional perspective of past events involving US/West powers that you perceive as evil and present them alongside the current situation in Ukraine. One has nothing to do with the other. Especially when your one-dimensional perspective FAILS to present the CURRENT aggressor and their past events.


What you seem to dismiss is, whether intentionally or otherwise, the underlying point that I make that 'the politics of war is wrong' regardless on who is behind the trigger. Evil is evil.

It is always the innocent lives in any region or country in these hostilities, whether currently or 10-100 years ago, is and always will be the victims in any of these geo-political BS.


BTW, I did not 'failed' to cite the current aggressor's historical past. I cited Georgia, Chechnya, and if you dig deeper, Cuba, Afghanistan, the Prague spring, etc...the 'west, US, Russia are all one and the same idiots playing goofballs in a sandlot.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 11:48:05 AM

BTW, I did not 'failed' to cite the current aggressor's historical past. I cited Georgia, Chechnya, and if you dig deeper, Cuba, Afghanistan, the Prague spring, etc...the 'west, US, Russia are all one and the same idiots playing goofballs in a sandlot.
As I wrote earlier, you fail to recognize the ideologies in play.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 12:16:51 PM
As I wrote earlier, you fail to recognize the ideologies in play.


I believe Dan, it is you who sees the global geopolitical landscape in a one dimensional lens. I refuse to look at things in a biased selective lens, is all.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 01:18:20 PM
Red Text = Appeal to hypocrisy. A tactic used to distract from the central issue. Totally irrelevant in addressing the CURRENT SITUATION.
 

I think it all ties in.    The west, more specifically the US has made grabs in the past, more delicately because it often a large block of nations that all chime in.  That was also incorrect to do, nevertheless it is done and now history.  Meanwhile another large power (Russia) is in the midst of brutally doing something not much different.  It will be more brutal perhaps.  It seems if they don't take some large action, they would have another nation sanctioning them at every step of the way, as all the other European nations are.   While the events that are taking place and will be taking place are going to be abhorrent, it is the way the world works nowadays.  Cherry picking which events to condemn and take action on is typical. 

As far as the current situation, It seems Ukraine is going to be more tied to Russia than they would have liked.  It is as much a defensive move as it is offensive.   I think Ukraine would have eventually leaned more and more west, and at some point, when something else was going on, they would have been one of those nations that was sanctioning this or that.  Russia wasn't going to let that happen.   We didn't let it happen in Cuba and were close to nuclear war over it.  That is the way I see it.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 02, 2022, 01:28:29 PM
Were Russia democratic, rather than authoritarian, Ukraine would have leaned more to Russia.  Even as late as 2020, Russia was Ukraine's third largest trading partner.  Over 5 million Ukrainian citizens live in Russia.  There are familial ties in both countries going back centuries. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 02, 2022, 01:35:43 PM
The Russian Federation had scheduled to publish an announcement in the prevision of the victory Saturday. 
And quickly removed it. But some people noticed it.
Here is the summary of the text, among some other information gathered for this 7th day of the war. 
 
http://youtu.be/h7cG4XMWu_k  (http://youtu.be/h7cG4XMWu_k)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 01:43:09 PM
I think it all ties in.    The west, more specifically the US has made grabs in the past, more delicately because it often a large block of nations that all chime in.  That was also incorrect to do, nevertheless it is done and now history.  Meanwhile another large power (Russia) is in the midst of brutally doing something not much different.  It will be more brutal perhaps.  It seems if they don't take some large action, they would have another nation sanctioning them at every step of the way, as all the other European nations are.   While the events that are taking place and will be taking place are going to be abhorrent, it is the way the world works nowadays.  Cherry picking which events to condemn and take action on is typical. 

As far as the current situation, It seems Ukraine is going to be more tied to Russia than they would have liked.  It is as much a defensive move as it is offensive.   I think Ukraine would have eventually leaned more and more west, and at some point, when something else was going on, they would have been one of those nations that was sanctioning this or that.  Russia wasn't going to let that happen.   We didn't let it happen in Cuba and were close to nuclear war over it.  That is the way I see it.   

Fathertime!
Cuba/Russia and Ukraine/US is a false analogy. Whitewashing bold-faced military aggression as "a defensive move" is intellectually dishonest. Explaining an unprovoked assault on a neighboring sovereign nation and its citizenry due to some perceived possible future event such as voting on sanctions is ridiculous.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 01:46:28 PM

1. I believe Dan, it is you who sees the global geopolitical landscape in a one dimensional lens.
2. I refuse to look at things in a biased selective lens, is all.
1. Believe what you will. The logical inconsistencies in your argument are clear.

2. And yet, you do.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 02, 2022, 01:53:19 PM
Not true. You presented a one-dimensional perspective of past events involving US/West powers that you perceive as evil and present them alongside the current situation in Ukraine. One has nothing to do with the other. Especially when your one-dimensional perspective FAILS to present the CURRENT aggressor and their past events.


Well said.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 02:00:20 PM
Cuba/Russia and Ukraine/US is a false analogy. 

We could also add in a dozen other aggressive moves that caused death and destruction, often spearheaded by the US.  I think Russia will see their move as similar.   If they do see it that way, I'll have to agree with them.  That is not sanction it, but I do see how they will be able to justify it. 

Fathertime!   
Explaining an unprovoked assault on a neighboring sovereign nation and its citizenry due to some perceived possible future event such as voting on sanctions is ridiculous.

We (The US) sometimes preemptively strike sovereign nations due to a perceived threat.   Russia perceives a threat at some point down the road.    Sanctions can be a form of financial war and that type of war can also cause suffering and or death.  Russia is at a severe disadvantage, so they are going to use what they do have which is seemingly a strong military.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 02:09:36 PM
1. Believe what you will. The logical inconsistencies in your argument are clear.

2. And yet, you do.


You're entitled to an opinion as well as I do. Touche. I stand behind mine, the fallacy is yours.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 02, 2022, 02:11:46 PM
FT.
Pray tell explain the future where a nuclear super power that is globally positioned economically and with tons of natural resources, had its citizens in ant eal.threat of change to.thier lives or livelihoods in the foreseeable future from a west leaning Ukraine?

Invading over a  possibility and directly effecting Ukrainian citizens loves and livelihoods is justifiable or not?

Despite all the *noise* this is the crux.

 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 02:21:00 PM
FT.
Pray tell explain the future where a nuclear super power that is globally positioned economically and with tons of natural resources, had its citizens in ant eal.threat of change to.thier lives or livelihoods in the foreseeable future from a west leaning Ukraine?
I have to agree that Russia WAS positioned and about to score big on their resources, and the pipeline was going to help.  I suspect in addition to the issues we do know, there is probably more that we don't know.  Russia was willing to lay it all on the line.  They probably expected a lot of these sanctions.   Even shipping carriers won't deliver or pick up their goods, airspace restricted, assets confiscated abroad.   Another country potentially aligning against them must have been unpalatable.   From what I perceive as their view, I can see why they are taking steps.   US also accomplished one of it's goals to prevent the pipeline from being completed.     

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 02:40:22 PM
1. We could also add in a dozen other aggressive moves that caused death and destruction, often spearheaded by the US. I think Russia will see their move as similar.   If they do see it that way, I'll have to agree with them.  That is not sanction it, but I do see how they will be able to justify it. 

Fathertime!   

2. We (The US) sometimes preemptively strike sovereign nations due to a perceived threat.   Russia perceives a threat at some point down the road. Sanctions can be a form of financial war and that type of war can also cause suffering and or death.  Russia is at a severe disadvantage, so they are going to use what they do have which is seemingly a strong military.   
Fathertime!

1. Another appeal to hypocrisy. Logical fallacies abound. None of that tripe is relevant. Putting aside the language of political justification, none of those past events figured into Putin's current aggression - EXCEPT - that he did not suffer a price previously.

2. Hard to believe you would claim Russia as the victim to justify their actions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 02, 2022, 02:47:28 PM
I have to agree that Russia WAS positioned and about to score big on their resources, and the pipeline was going to help.  I suspect in addition to the issues we do know, there is probably more that we don't know.  Russia was willing to lay it all on the line.  They probably expected a lot of these sanctions.   Even shipping carriers won't deliver or pick up their goods, airspace restricted, assets confiscated abroad.   Another country potentially aligning against them must have been unpalatable.   From what I perceive as their view, I can see why they are taking steps.   US also accomplished one of it's goals to prevent the pipeline from being completed.     

Fathertime!   

I disagree with you.  I think Putin and his inner circle, all products of the USSR KGB, believed the West (in particular, Germany) is weak, and that their (the West's) economic interests prevailed over everything.  I don't believe for a minute that they entertained the thought Nord Stream would be cancelled.  I doubt they even considered BP and Shell writing off Russian gas interests and exiting Russia.  I doubt they considered Russian artists, who are not part of the government, being banned from cultural events in Western countires.  I really doubt they thought they would be viewed as a pariah state.  Whether that holds up is to be seen. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 02, 2022, 03:29:37 PM
I disagree with you.  I think Putin and his inner circle, all products of the USSR KGB, believed the West (in particular, Germany) is weak, and that their (the West's) economic interests prevailed over everything.  I don't believe for a minute that they entertained the thought Nord Stream would be cancelled.  I doubt they even considered BP and Shell writing off Russian gas interests and exiting Russia.  I doubt they considered Russian artists, who are not part of the government, being banned from cultural events in Western countires.  I really doubt they thought they would be viewed as a pariah state.  Whether that holds up is to be seen.

Lavrov even said that to Al Jazeera today, they where counting on economical sanktions but never considered athletes and the whole sporting world would be this affected for example, they seemed to have had a long intervju with him, I only saw some headlines go by.

Besides Paralympics I think they have been banned in almost all other branches of sports, individual and team. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 02, 2022, 03:52:54 PM
$1 million bounty on Putin offered by Russian businessman

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/1-million-bounty-on-putin-offered-by-russian-businessman/ar-AAUvfnL?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W069
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 02, 2022, 03:58:04 PM
I disagree with you.  I think Putin and his inner circle, all products of the USSR KGB, believed the West (in particular, Germany) is weak, and that their (the West's) economic interests prevailed over everything.  I don't believe for a minute that they entertained the thought Nord Stream would be cancelled.  I doubt they even considered BP and Shell writing off Russian gas interests and exiting Russia.  I doubt they considered Russian artists, who are not part of the government, being banned from cultural events in Western countires.  I really doubt they thought they would be viewed as a pariah state.  Whether that holds up is to be seen.

Correct, they have contempt for Germany and France.
These last two countries needed a lot of time to realize it, but now it's done.
And things are unlikely to be fully restored.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 02, 2022, 04:05:32 PM
Lavrov even said that to Al Jazeera today, they where counting on economical sanktions but never considered athletes and the whole sporting world would be this affected for example, they seemed to have had a long intervju with him, I only saw some headlines go by.

Besides Paralympics I think they have been banned in almost all other branches of sports, individual and team.


I think it has to be made a true pariah state, akin to Iran or North Korea.  Visas for travel (and travel should be difficult for ordinary citizens), no Western clothing stores, or skincare products, make up, etc.  It's only when ordinary Russians feel the effects of being a pariah state that the situation will improve.  This has to be done until Russia no longer occupies Ukraine in any way, shape or form.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 04:11:56 PM
1. Another appeal to hypocrisy. Logical fallacies abound. None of that tripe is relevant. Putting aside the language of political justification, none of those past events figured into Putin's current aggression - EXCEPT - that he did not suffer a price previously.
 
I'm going to have disagree to the relevance issue.   I can't speak for Russia, but from their view they may well think what is good for the goose is good for the gander.   


2. Hard to believe you would claim Russia as the victim to justify their actions.
I'm attempting to put myself in their shoes.  From their viewpoint they probably think they need to limit how far the West can start to have influence and right up on their doorstep is too far.     YOU used the word victim; I don't recall using that word.   If they are victims, they are going to be aggressive victims. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 04:17:07 PM
I disagree with you.  I think Putin and his inner circle, all products of the USSR KGB, believed the West (in particular, Germany) is weak, and that their (the West's) economic interests prevailed over everything.  I don't believe for a minute that they entertained the thought Nord Stream would be cancelled.  I doubt they even considered BP and Shell writing off Russian gas interests and exiting Russia.  I doubt they considered Russian artists, who are not part of the government, being banned from cultural events in Western countires.  I really doubt they thought they would be viewed as a pariah state.  Whether that holds up is to be seen.

I suspect the sanctions are more severe than they expected.  I think Russia thought they would be sanctioned, and they would lose the pipeline, but other sanctions and talk of even more are more than they expected.   

All that said, many of the larger nations such as China, India, and Pakistan seem to be more in Russia's corner than one might suspect.  They all abstained from the big UN vote today.   I take that to mean they are turning a blind eye to what is going on.  Keeping the door open to Russia. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 02, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
All will need to turn, if they want to continue to trade with the West, and, in the case of India and Pakistan, continue to receive Western aid.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 04:27:14 PM
All will need to turn, if they want to continue to trade with the West, and, in the case of India and Pakistan, continue to receive Western aid.

I think that may be correct.  The west has historically been much better at twisting arms than the rest of the world.  I would suspect a lot of votes were cast out of financial interests.

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 04:49:17 PM
1. I'm going to have disagree to the relevance issue.   I can't speak for Russia, but from their view they may well think what is good for the goose is good for the gander.[/b]  I'm attempting to put myself in their shoes.  From their viewpoint they probably think they need to limit how far the West can start to have influence and right up on their doorstep is too far[/b].     

2. YOU used the word victim; I don't recall using that word.   If they are victims, they are going to be aggressive victims. 
Fathertime!

1. You are correct, you cannot speak for Russia. Your SPECULATION as to Russia's thought process is a ridiculous line of argument.


2. The statement that "Russia is at a severe disadvantage" is a naked attempt to cast them as the victim and use that as justification for their actions. Another ridiculous line of argument.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 06:13:35 PM
1. You are correct, you cannot speak for Russia. Your SPECULATION as to Russia's thought process is a ridiculous line of argument.


2. The statement that "Russia is at a severe disadvantage" is a naked attempt to cast them as the victim and use that as justification for their actions. Another ridiculous line of argument.
[/

You may think it is ridiculous, but I think what I've written would probably be close to what their concerns are.  It seems pretty clear they don't concern themselves too much with western opinion.  In most of the media I've seen here in the USA, the Russians are 100% the problem.  Despite this, I'm seeing they have a side to the story too. I'm not big on categorizing them as 'victims', that has been your characterization of what I'm stating. 
 They have concerns and which obviously haven't been addressed.  You may characterize them as ridiculous and as long as the West does the same, I guess there will be more shooting, death, and destruction.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 06:43:43 PM
You may think it is ridiculous, but I think what I've written would probably be close to what their concerns are.  It seems pretty clear they don't concern themselves too much with western opinion.  In most of the media I've seen here in the USA, the Russians are 100% the problem.  Despite this, I'm seeing they have a side to the story too. I'm not big on categorizing them as 'victims', that has been your characterization of what I'm stating. 
 They have concerns and which obviously haven't been addressed.  You may characterize them as ridiculous and as long as the West does the same, I guess there will be more shooting, death, and destruction.

Fathertime! 


It was YOUR post which made the attempt to cast them as victims by claiming that "Russia is at a severe disadvantage." There is no other interpretation of your words FT. And you then go on to use that fallacious and absurd claim as some sort of justification for their actions. Yes, I most certainly assert this argument you've posed is "ridiculous." And that's the kindest thing to be said about it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 02, 2022, 07:46:38 PM
$1 million bounty on Putin offered by Russian businessman

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/1-million-bounty-on-putin-offered-by-russian-businessman/ar-AAUvfnL?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W069 (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/1-million-bounty-on-putin-offered-by-russian-businessman/ar-AAUvfnL?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W069)
Whether that report about Alex Konanykhin is true or not...A $10 million bounty may in turn be put on him.
Quote
Putin puts nuclear forces on high alert, escalating tensions
http://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550
Dubious... as any nuclear command is always on 'high alert'.

Quote
Anxiety Grows in Odessa as Russians Advance in Southern Ukraine
http://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/world/europe/odessa-black-sea-ukraine-russia.html

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 07:56:00 PM
It was YOUR post which made the attempt to cast them as victims by claiming that "Russia is at a severe disadvantage." There is no other interpretation of your words FT.  most certainly assert this argument you've posed is "ridiculous." And that's the kindest thing to be said about it.

I had to review the posts to see the context from which you pulled 'severe disadvantage' from.  It was stated in the context of finances and the ability to inflict harm through sanctions.  I stand by that statement, if you want to add it makes them 'victims' that is your choice.   Russia doesn't have the ability or allies to create the type of hardship through sanctions that the West does.   They are at a severe disadvantage in that respect.     Because of this, when they want to get their way, it will be use of brute force.  The West will often use other levers that aren't available to Russia at this time.  Often when those levers fail to produce the result they want, brute force is also used. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 07:58:48 PM
Whether that report about Alex Konanykhin is true or not...A $10 million bounty may in turn be put on him.

If Putin REALLY thinks he may be in jeopardy, he probably will act even more aggressive. That puts everybody in even greater jeopardy on a faster timeline. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 02, 2022, 08:00:54 PM
I had to review the posts to see the context from which you pulled 'severe disadvantage' from.  It was stated in the context of finances and the ability to inflict harm through sanctions.  I stand by that statement, if you want to add it makes them 'victims' that is your choice.   Russia doesn't have the ability or allies to create the type of hardship through sanctions that the West does.   They are at a severe disadvantage in that respect.     Because of this, when they want to get their way, it will be use of brute force.  The West will often use other levers that aren't available to Russia at this time.  Often when those levers fail to produce the result they want, brute force is also used. 

Fathertime!   


I agree completely. Doesn't excuse Russia's current adventure, nor should it excuse all others in theirs.

As for sanctions, it’s a joke. The US imports oil from Russia to the tune of 600,000 barrels/day. At $100.00 per barrel, we are giving Russia $60 million/day, everyday. The White House excluded crude oil from the sanctioned lot because it fears it’ll make the inflation worse. Go figure.   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 08:37:46 PM
She has every right to be disappointed.  Especially if we (The US) led her people to believe that we were going to jeopardize the planet with WWIII.   Her request of a no-fly zone isn't realistic at all.   I'm now convinced Putin is willing to do everything up to nukes to get what he wants out of Ukraine.   Before this all started, he probably would have settled for less, now given what the global consequences are going to be, he probably wants it all, unequivocally. If that means squashing all resistance and taking millions of lives, he will probably do it.  People seem to be evacuating and I hope they continue to do so.  I don't see why Russia wouldn't let women, children, old men, flee out of the country.     


Ukrainian parliament member says Biden’s SOTU was ‘a total disappointment’ for Ukraine

....And today when I see President Biden saying that we’re going to protect every inch of the NATO territory, excuse me, we’ve been promised the same thing when we gave up our nuclear weapons," Ustinova said. "The Russians have totally destroyed all of the airports in Ukraine, the majority of the roads. We are grateful for help, but we need protection in our sky."

The Biden administration has said it will not send military aircraft to enforce a no-fly zone over Ukraine because that would amount to a direct confrontation with Russian forces.

"We have been protecting ourselves on the ground, but if we do not protect our sky, if there is (not) a no-fly zone or if there is no dome to protect it with the air defense, we will all go down," Ustinova said. "People will literally die."....


http://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-parliament-member-says-biden-144019213.html    (http://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-parliament-member-says-biden-144019213.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 02, 2022, 09:05:52 PM
If Putin REALLY thinks he may be in jeopardy, he probably will act even more aggressive. That puts everybody in even greater jeopardy on a faster timeline. 

Fathertime!


I doubt that.  He could face a Mussolini type fate if he goes too far.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on March 02, 2022, 09:27:39 PM

If Putin REALLY thinks he may be in jeopardy, he probably will act even more aggressive. That puts everybody in even greater jeopardy on a faster timeline. 

Fathertime!





I doubt that.  He could face a Mussolini type fate if he goes too far.

Fathertime is likely correct.

Here's an informative YouTube where we learn to never trap a rat:

Former MI6 Chief On the Ukraine & Russia Conflict | Oxford Union

http://youtu.be/Yw5lzKVn3sc
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 02, 2022, 10:08:27 PM
This will be a grim post.

NY Times Report seems pretty spot on.    Many NATO nations are going to be trying to transport weaponry into Ukraine.   This raises the question of 'unofficial' NATO involvement.
Several points regarding this.   
1.  Russia Will feel they have every right to preemptively attack, *As the US has done* even if it is within a NATO country border.
2.  If Russia feels the weaponry is going to make it to Ukraine, they may feel the urgent need to exterminate Ukraine's military on an accelerated timeline, with less and less regard for 'collateral damage.  If they don't Ukraine will have enough weapons to inflict more casualties on Russia. 
3.  If Russia does decide to attack within a NATO nation, NATO will likely respond with overwhelming force, and Russia could easily go tactically Nuclear. 
4.  I don't think NATO would respond right away with nuclear weapons because it would escalate Russia even more.  At that point it is clearly the planet at risk.   

The longer this goes on the harder it becomes to find a solution.  Ukrainians civilians should be running for the exits faster than ever.   


NATO Countries Pour Weapons Into Ukraine, Risking Conflict With Russia


.....In fact, even if no NATO soldier ever crosses into Ukraine, and even if convoys of materiel are driven to the border by nonuniformed personnel or contractors in plain trucks, the European arms supplies are likely to be seen in Moscow as a not-so-disguised intervention by NATO.

Supplying Ukraine to allow the resistance to bloody Russia’s nose is a good idea, “but the more it ramps up you wonder how Putin will respond,” said Malcolm Chalmers, deputy director of the Royal United Services Institute, a defense research institute. “What happens if he attacks on the other side of the border? We pursue terrorists across borders, why not him?”.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-countries-pour-weapons-ukraine-195214505.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-countries-pour-weapons-ukraine-195214505.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 02, 2022, 11:05:37 PM
FT,

All weapons being provided by western nations, to date, are defensive weapons.  Anti-tank, anti-aircraft, etc

This is likely why the idea of providing them with fighter jets was dropped.  A fighter is not a defensive weapon.

If UA armed forces fall, it may become more of an issue since we would then be providing arms to what might be deemed by RU as an insurgence or terrorists. Even so, that is exactly what RU has been doing with the rebels in the eastern part of UA since 2014.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 11:21:14 PM

1. I had to review the posts to see the context from which you pulled 'severe disadvantage' from.  It was stated in the context of finances and the ability to inflict harm through sanctions.  I stand by that statement,

2. if you want to add it makes them 'victims' that is your choice.   Russia doesn't have the ability or allies to create the type of hardship through sanctions that the West does.   They are at a severe disadvantage in that respect.     Because of this, when they want to get their way, it will be use of brute force. 

3. The West will often use other levers that aren't available to Russia at this time.  Often when those levers fail to produce the result they want, brute force is also used. 
Fathertime!   


1. You don't remember your claim in your own post?!? Do you just write stuff without thinking?? Those are YOUR words I cited on multiple occasions. "Russia is at a severe disadvantage." In the context YOU presented, you seek to establish Russia as the victim (the one disadvantaged) and then spin that as justification for their aggression. Ludicrous.

2. Russia has just as much influence over the UN as does China or the US or any other permanent member, and far more than any regular UN member nation.

3. And you return to a fallacious appeal to hypocrisy. None of that is relevant to the central issue of unprovoked Russian aggression against a neighboring sovereign nation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 02, 2022, 11:32:03 PM
She has every right to be disappointed. 1. Especially if we (The US) led her people to believe that we were going to jeopardize the planet with WWIII.   Her request of a no-fly zone isn't realistic at all.   I'm now convinced Putin is willing to do everything up to nukes to get what he wants out of Ukraine.   2. Before this all started, he probably would have settled for less, now given what the global consequences are going to be, he probably wants it all, unequivocally. If that means squashing all resistance and taking millions of lives, he will probably do it.  People seem to be evacuating and I hope they continue to do so.  I don't see why Russia wouldn't let women, children, old men, flee out of the country.     


Ukrainian parliament member says Biden’s SOTU was ‘a total disappointment’ for Ukraine

3. ....And today when I see President Biden saying that we’re going to protect every inch of the NATO territory, excuse me, we’ve been promised the same thing when we gave up our nuclear weapons," Ustinova said. "The Russians have totally destroyed all of the airports in Ukraine, the majority of the roads. We are grateful for help, but we need protection in our sky."

The Biden administration has said it will not send military aircraft to enforce a no-fly zone over Ukraine because that would amount to a direct confrontation with Russian forces.

"We have been protecting ourselves on the ground, but if we do not protect our sky, if there is (not) a no-fly zone or if there is no dome to protect it with the air defense, we will all go down," Ustinova said. "People will literally die."....


http://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-parliament-member-says-biden-144019213.html    (http://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-parliament-member-says-biden-144019213.html)

Fathertime!
1. Appeal to exaggeration. At the time Ukraine held a large number of Soviet-era nuclear weapons. In an effort to reduce the number of countries holding nuclear arsenals, guarantees were offered by the West AND BY RUSSIA for Ukrainian sovereignty and security. Your "jeopardize the planet with WWIII" bullshit is pure hyperbole.

2. Probably this. Probably that. More speculative nonsense.

3. You failed to include the most profound part of the interview when she asked the question of what red line is it that Putin must cross before the West intervenes. Of course, that question presupposes one starts from the position that Putin's aggressions are unwarranted - a step too far for you it seems.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 03, 2022, 05:56:37 AM

1. You don't remember your claim in your own post?!? Do you just write stuff without thinking?? Those are YOUR words I cited on multiple occasions. "Russia is at a severe disadvantage." In the context YOU presented, you seek to establish Russia as the victim (the one disadvantaged) and then spin that as justification for their aggression. Ludicrous.

Since you quoted my words, I went back and reviewed the context it was stated in to see if I was incorrect.   Turns out it was stated in a context I can stand behind.   You can label as "Victim" or appeal to hypocrisy, but that doesn't mean it isn't accurate.   Russia is indeed at a SEVERE DISADVANTAGE as it pertains to being able to inflict harm through sanctions.  That isn't a route they can take (At this time).  In this particular case they tried intimidation before massive attacks, but that didn't work, in part because the West had been pumping up Ukraine. 

If Russia is going to get their way, they have military strength (It seems), that is method they are can and are willing to use. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 03, 2022, 06:05:18 AM
1. Appeal to exaggeration. At the time Ukraine held a large number of Soviet-era nuclear weapons. In an effort to reduce the number of countries holding nuclear arsenals, guarantees were offered by the West AND BY RUSSIA for Ukrainian sovereignty and security. Your "jeopardize the planet with WWIII" bullshit is pure hyperbole.
No.  It isn't 'my' WWIII horseshit, although I do believe it is on the table.   There are a lot of people Lavrov himself has brought it up and many analysts are making the rounds in belief it is quite possible IF NATO takes a larger role.  It is already becoming a blurred line.



2. Probably this. Probably that. More speculative nonsense.
You may think everything is a sure thing.  For now, it is a maybe or probably. 


3. You failed to include the most profound part of the interview when she asked the question of what red line is it that Putin must cross before the West intervenes. Of course, that question presupposes one starts from the position that Putin's aggressions are unwarranted - a step too far for you it seems.
Actually, it is you that failed to discuss that aspect of the interview in context.  I've discussed the points that I was ready to discuss.  If there are points that you feel are necessary to bring up, obviously you should do it. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 03, 2022, 07:03:16 AM


Former MI6 Chief On the Ukraine & Russia Conflict | Oxford Union

http://youtu.be/Yw5lzKVn3sc

Thanks for sharing the video. Actually watched the whole thing, but man that was painful. I thought Gavin Newsom was bad, but he takes the cake.

One can only hope the suffering stops sooner than later.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 03, 2022, 09:20:13 AM
Correct, they have contempt for Germany and France.
These last two countries needed a lot of time to realize it, but now it's done.
And things are unlikely to be fully restored.


Patagonie-


I understand how Germany can be looked at by Moscow as being submissive, or even passive, as to me it has a very deep reliance on Russia's energy provision. But as a Frenchman, why do you think France is looked at by Russia as such (weak)? Hell, Macron have the only open communication with Russia at this time.


Could it be that France had always been apprehensive in its NATO membership? It first withdrew from the alliance, IINM, back in the late 60s and took what I think 40+ years before rejoining for a heavily conditioned membership (absent doctrine for mutual assured destruction). Which explains its non-military contribution to this obsolete organization when required. So maybe Russia sees that as being 'weak'?


What do you think?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 03, 2022, 09:32:07 AM

Patagonie-


I understand how Germany can be looked at by Moscow as being submissive, or even passive, as to me it has a very deep reliance on Russia's energy provision. But as a Frenchman, why do you think France is looked at by Russia as such (weak)? Hell, Macron have the only open communication with Russia at this time.


Could it be that France had always been apprehensive in its NATO membership? It first withdrew from the alliance, IINM, back in the late 60s and took what I think 40+ years before rejoining for a heavily conditioned membership (absent doctrine for mutual assured destruction). Which explains its non-military contribution to this obsolete organization when required. So maybe Russia sees that as being 'weak'?


What do you think?
GQ 
I think it's more about how France has managed the crisis of the Yellow Jackets and the fact that it doesn't control his immigration. Marriage between homosexuals, couple of men or couple of men adopting babies and so on.
It's more about moral values IMHO.
Additionally Macron is the exact type of young French blue-collar that is having no clue about the Slavic soul. I suppose that the previous Presidents were better in this exercise. 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 03, 2022, 10:01:11 AM
GQ 
I think it's more about how France has managed the crisis of the Yellow Jackets and the fact that it doesn't control his immigration. Marriage between homosexuals, couple of men or couple of men adopting babies and so on.
It's more about moral values IMHO.
Additionally Macron is the exact type of young French blue-collar that is having no clue about the Slavic soul. I suppose that the previous Presidents were better in this exercise.


So what you're saying is, it's more in line 'culturally' than any. Macron, at least from my distant perspective, does seem to be disfavored by its citizens.

Just read an article today about how he perceived the result of his recently concluded communication with Putin. Very bleak for Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 03, 2022, 11:26:33 AM

Belarusian soldiers refuse to invade Ukraine
http://www.unian.ua/world/biloruski-soldati-vidmovlyayutsya-vid-vtorgnennya-v-ukrajinu-jim-pogrozhuyut-zmi-novini-svitu-11727526.html?utm_source=unian&utm_medium=read_more_news&utm_campaign=read_more_news_in_post (http://www.unian.ua/world/biloruski-soldati-vidmovlyayutsya-vid-vtorgnennya-v-ukrajinu-jim-pogrozhuyut-zmi-novini-svitu-11727526.html?utm_source=unian&utm_medium=read_more_news&utm_campaign=read_more_news_in_post)

http://world.segodnya.ua/world/wnews/belarus-ne-budet-voevat-v-ukraine-zayavlenie-lukashenko-1606575.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 03, 2022, 05:15:55 PM
Thanks for sharing the video. Actually watched the whole thing...
Yeah? I am limited on time__ What did he say?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 03, 2022, 05:18:25 PM
   If Russia feels the weaponry is going to make it to Ukraine, they may feel the urgent need to exterminate Ukraine's military on an accelerated timeline, with less and less regard for 'collateral damage. 
It has been demonstrated that they have no regard for this at all.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 03, 2022, 05:26:30 PM
It has been demonstrated that they have no regard for this at all.
I'm hearing mixed reports.  Some are practically saying they are lining up women and children and shooting them. I'd need to see videos of this to believe it.     Others are saying they are permitting civilians to leave in predetermined routes.  This seems plausible. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 03, 2022, 05:34:41 PM
I'm hearing mixed reports.  Some are practically saying they are lining up women and children and shooting them. I'd need to see videos of this to believe it.     Others are saying they are permitting civilians to leave in predetermined routes.  This seems plausible. 

Fathertime!

There are not mutually exclusive situations here.

It is true that many people are leaving Ukraine mostly unhindered by Russian terrorists.

However, it is also true that Russian terrorists are shooting into houses along the streets as they move through.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 03, 2022, 06:36:03 PM
There are not mutually exclusive situations here.

It is true that many people are leaving Ukraine mostly unhindered by Russian terrorists.

Yeah, not the Russian terrorists but what about the Ukrainian guards.... 
This will not be looked at favorably in African nations, or by most anyone else.  Quite a few accountings (And accompanying video) so it is probably true. 

African students fleeing Ukraine report racial discrimination at borders
The last 24 hours of her journey in the queue, Sky said, were the worst because that’s when she started facing “racism and segregation.” She said that while she and her husband were making their way to the front of the line, Ukrainian civilians began aggressively circling their car, with one man allegedly lunging at her....

.....“The Ukrainian border guards were not letting us through. They were beating people up with sticks” and tearing off their jackets, she added. “They would slap them, beat them and push them to the end of the queue. It was awful.”

....Other accounts using the #africansinukraine hashtag (but unverified by Yahoo News) involve African men, women and children being shoved off trains and buses by Ukrainian troops....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html)

Fathertime! 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 03, 2022, 10:03:40 PM
It's not a racial thing, though, FT. 


Ukrainian men have very different attitudes toward women (and children) than do WM.  So they would hold back foreigners who are 99% men in favour of letting women proceed to cross the border.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 03, 2022, 10:54:54 PM
Yeah, not the Russian terrorists but what about the Ukrainian guards.... 
This will not be looked at favorably in African nations, or by most anyone else.  Quite a few accountings (And accompanying video) so it is probably true. 

African students fleeing Ukraine report racial discrimination at borders
The last 24 hours of her journey in the queue, Sky said, were the worst because that’s when she started facing “racism and segregation.” She said that while she and her husband were making their way to the front of the line, Ukrainian civilians began aggressively circling their car, with one man allegedly lunging at her....

.....“The Ukrainian border guards were not letting us through. They were beating people up with sticks” and tearing off their jackets, she added. “They would slap them, beat them and push them to the end of the queue. It was awful.”

....Other accounts using the #africansinukraine hashtag (but unverified by Yahoo News) involve African men, women and children being shoved off trains and buses by Ukrainian troops....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html)

Fathertime!

That’s terrible. But that’s true most everywhere.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 03, 2022, 11:09:39 PM
Yeah? I am limited on time__ What did he say?

Mostly various angles where this conflict could potentially end. As a career intelligence personnel he just shared insights to the wacky mind of Putin that most are aware of to begin with.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 04, 2022, 12:44:54 AM
A lot of those ethnic groups have a very self important outlook. They don't think they think they should be allowed in with the women/anyone else but I'm front of them. They think they are entitled to push themselves to the front of the queue as soon as matters change in their interest to do so. Unfortunately for them they were born with penis's and in such a time in a country like Ukraine in such a circumstance they have least value. They would be better making their way on foot than waiting there forever more while women are constantly pushed in front of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 04, 2022, 05:57:47 AM
Yeah, not the Russian terrorists but what about the Ukrainian guards.... 
This will not be looked at favorably in African nations, or by most anyone else.  Quite a few accountings (And accompanying video) so it is probably true. 

African students fleeing Ukraine report racial discrimination at borders
The last 24 hours of her journey in the queue, Sky said, were the worst because that’s when she started facing “racism and segregation.” She said that while she and her husband were making their way to the front of the line, Ukrainian civilians began aggressively circling their car, with one man allegedly lunging at her....

.....“The Ukrainian border guards were not letting us through. They were beating people up with sticks” and tearing off their jackets, she added. “They would slap them, beat them and push them to the end of the queue. It was awful.”

....Other accounts using the #africansinukraine hashtag (but unverified by Yahoo News) involve African men, women and children being shoved off trains and buses by Ukrainian troops....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html)

Fathertime!


The BBC tried to put a racial spin on this..being a lefty outfit....and failed.


They have reporters at the Polish border with Lviv,and they were thrusting microphones under black refugees arriving from Ukraine.


"Were you put to the back of the queue for getting out of Ukraine " ? They asked.


"Yes we were "was the reply.


"So this was racial discrimination then " ? the reporter eagerly asked of a black woman.


"No..the Ukrainians were putting Ukrainian people before foreigners ".


"Oh " replied the thwarted reporter.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 06:18:18 AM
It seems the west's biggest weapon thus far has been finances.  Years or decades ago this weapon would have been more effective but may be a little watered down in 2022. 
The Ruble has gone down in value a lot since the war started from 80 to 112 (Estimate)
At the same time Oil has gone up in value from $75 a barrel to $110  (Estimate) 
It seems that this will nullify the effect of sanctions.  The US continues to buy 600,000 barrels of oil from Russia DAILY.  I would assume (Especially now) that Russia is getting paid immediately and in dollars. 

It wouldn't benefit us much if we tried to stop buying the oil.  China or India would probably buy the oil anyway.  I think other nations are leery of the US trying to freeze countries out, because they realize at some point down the road, they will either be frozen out, or the looming threat would exist and occasionally be used as a lever to apply pressure. 

Fathertime! 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 07:13:03 AM

The BBC tried to put a racial spin on this..being a lefty outfit....and failed.


They have reporters at the Polish border with Lviv,and they were thrusting microphones under black refugees arriving from Ukraine.


"Were you put to the back of the queue for getting out of Ukraine " ? They asked.


"Yes we were "was the reply.


"So this was racial discrimination then " ? the reporter eagerly asked of a black woman.


"No..the Ukrainians were putting Ukrainian people before foreigners ".


"Oh " replied the thwarted reporter.
I don't think all the accounts can be dismissed by one interaction you are quoting.    That said, I know the media likes to headline racial issues such as these.     Still the accounts are some people are actually being beaten, so there is probably some truth to it.   

Years ago when it was Syrian's trying to escape, they were called dregs of society, and terrorists among chants of send them back! ....now that it is Ukrainians, they are civilians.     In both cases they are civilians.   

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 04, 2022, 07:22:27 AM
African students....
The Polish are vetting people based on appearance. So what?
Who is to know who is entering? Unlike the US border which should be very important...any Tom, Dick, & Harry, or Abdul the Islamic terrorist is wandering on in.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 07:40:00 AM
The Polish are vetting people based on appearance. So what?
Who is to know who is entering? Unlike the US border which should be very important...any Tom, Dick, & Harry, or Abdul the Islamic terrorist is wandering on in.

I don't think the focus was Polish guards vetting people.  That is totally ok to do obviously.   Poor treatment by Ukrainians is the aspect of the article I was referring to.  Beatings...being pushed off a train...accountings like this. 

The US border has become lax.  Dominican Lady came into my shop recently and said she had never seen it so easy to come through the checkpoints.  The border people were practically sleeping and waving everybody through at Tijuana border crossing.

Fathertime!     
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 08:35:31 AM
If I were a foreign investor, I'd be uninterested in investing in the US or Europe going forward.   Foreign investment is one of the keys to the US economy.  A lot of our taxes are paid by foreigners who invest in our real estate, stocks, and projects.  We don't make very much stuff here in the states to export, so this was one of the ways to recapture some of the money we hemorrhage on imports. 

Chinese, Russian, Indian among others may reconsider investing here and stick to investing in their home countries.  I think the idea WAS to invest some of their assets here in the states to diversify their portfolios.  The US is proving to be an unsafe place to invest, as assets can be seized suddenly.  This is a complaint I often hear about investing in the 3rd world, that laws can change overnight, and you suddenly lose everything.   

I will be curious to see if there is a long-term effect from US and EU policy.   

Sanctioned Russian billionaire banker Mikhail Fridman was locked out of the private-equity firm he cofounded and staff were told to ignore him, report says

.....Russian billionaire and banker, Mikhail Fridman, was locked out of the investment firm he cofounded after he was hit by European Union sanctions, the company announced on Wednesday.....

....Fridman's assets in the company were "effectively frozen" and his rights as a shareholder were taken away, LetterOne's press release said. He won't receive dividends, funds, or communications in any way, said LetterOne.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/sanctioned-billionaire-russian-banker-mikhail-105222192.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/sanctioned-billionaire-russian-banker-mikhail-105222192.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 04, 2022, 08:47:49 AM
I don't think all the accounts can be dismissed by one interaction you are quoting.    That said, I know the media likes to headline racial issues such as these.     Still the accounts are some people are actually being beaten, so there is probably some truth to it.   

Years ago when it was Syrian's trying to escape, they were called dregs of society, and terrorists among chants of send them back! ....now that it is Ukrainians, they are civilians.     In both cases they are civilians.   

Fathertime!


If there was racism going on concerning the evacuation of people from Ukraine the BBC would have found it..it's their go to.


An Indian guy was complaining at Kiev train station that he'd been pushed back with a rifle butt in his back,but he'd been trying to force his way past a Ukrainian woman and her child onto a train.


Black men on the steps leading up to the platform were being VERY aggressive toward Ukrainian women and their children in their way,until Ukrainian troops yelled at them to get back,and then lifted the women and children up out of the crush and onto the platform..this was all filmed by Sky News.


No signs of any beatings though. :rolleyes:


Two sides to every story eh ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 04, 2022, 09:01:00 AM
Bad news for Trench.


625,000 refugees have fled to Poland from Ukraine so far and i found out today there's already a large Ukrainian population in Poland.


All those Ukrainian guys waiting to comfort those single hotties ..and those girls will now get to stay in the EU with their new partners.


It couldn't have worked out any worse for Trenchie.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 04, 2022, 09:13:36 AM
Bad news for Trench.


625,000 refugees have fled to Poland from Ukraine so far and i found out today there's already a large Ukrainian population in Poland.


All those Ukrainian guys waiting to comfort those single hotties ..and those girls will now get to stay in the EU with their new partners.


It couldn't have worked out any worse for Trenchie.
:ROFL:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2022, 02:15:43 PM
It seems the west's biggest weapon thus far has been finances.  Years or decades ago this weapon would have been more effective but may be a little watered down in 2022. 
The Ruble has gone down in value a lot since the war started from 80 to 112 (Estimate)
At the same time Oil has gone up in value from $75 a barrel to $110  (Estimate) 
It seems that this will nullify the effect of sanctions.  The US continues to buy 600,000 barrels of oil from Russia DAILY.  I would assume (Especially now) that Russia is getting paid immediately and in dollars. 

It wouldn't benefit us much if we tried to stop buying the oil.  China or India would probably buy the oil anyway.  I think other nations are leery of the US trying to freeze countries out, because they realize at some point down the road, they will either be frozen out, or the looming threat would exist and occasionally be used as a lever to apply pressure. 

Fathertime!


Russia is a kleptocracy.  So hitting them with really tough sanctions will work, because the elite won't be able to spend their ill gotten gains.  There's only so much borscht, blini, and vodka one can consume.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2022, 02:17:29 PM
If I were a foreign investor, I'd be uninterested in investing in the US or Europe going forward.   Foreign investment is one of the keys to the US economy.  A lot of our taxes are paid by foreigners who invest in our real estate, stocks, and projects.  We don't make very much stuff here in the states to export, so this was one of the ways to recapture some of the money we hemorrhage on imports. 

Chinese, Russian, Indian among others may reconsider investing here and stick to investing in their home countries.  I think the idea WAS to invest some of their assets here in the states to diversify their portfolios.  The US is proving to be an unsafe place to invest, as assets can be seized suddenly.  This is a complaint I often hear about investing in the 3rd world, that laws can change overnight, and you suddenly lose everything.   

I will be curious to see if there is a long-term effect from US and EU policy.   

Sanctioned Russian billionaire banker Mikhail Fridman was locked out of the private-equity firm he cofounded and staff were told to ignore him, report says

.....Russian billionaire and banker, Mikhail Fridman, was locked out of the investment firm he cofounded after he was hit by European Union sanctions, the company announced on Wednesday.....

....Fridman's assets in the company were "effectively frozen" and his rights as a shareholder were taken away, LetterOne's press release said. He won't receive dividends, funds, or communications in any way, said LetterOne.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/sanctioned-billionaire-russian-banker-mikhail-105222192.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/sanctioned-billionaire-russian-banker-mikhail-105222192.html)

Fathertime!


I guess I would be afraid were I a foreigner who supported a kleptocratic, authoritarian regime.  Were I an honest person who didn't support murderous regimes, I suspect I'd have no issues.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2022, 02:29:47 PM
Since you quoted my words, I went back and reviewed the context it was stated in to see if I was incorrect.   Turns out it was stated in a context I can stand behind.   You can label as "Victim" or appeal to hypocrisy, but that doesn't mean it isn't accurate.   Russia is indeed at a SEVERE DISADVANTAGE as it pertains to being able to inflict harm through sanctions.  That isn't a route they can take (At this time).  In this particular case they tried intimidation before massive attacks, but that didn't work, in part because the West had been pumping up Ukraine. 


I can't express how much I disagree with the bolded part above.


Let's go back to Donbas.  Why did it explode?  Because of a language law.  A law the West did not support.  The EU, in particular, is very strong on minority language rights. 


How has "the West" been pumping up Ukraine?  It hasn't.  It's true, the West trained Ukrainians in activism and democratic principles, but it also trained them in how to open banks, run hospitals, etc.  But the democracy in Ukraine was homegrown.  It was never imposed by the West.  There are about 10 million people of Ukrainian descent living in Western countries, and many of their parents and grandparents were fighting for Ukrainian independence and democracy when Ukraine was still part of the USSR.  So when the Soviet Union collapsed, many of them went to Ukraine, to aid in establishing a working government and civil life.  They underestimated the problems, but they did aid, with significant funding from the US government, in creating a stable, democratic state. 


Ukraine's democracy is young, and is rife with corruption and inefficiency.  But unlike in Russia, people there were not afraid to criticize elected officials.  Unlike in Russia, they could demonstrate freely, whenever they wished.


I do not believe for a moment that the invasion of Ukraine is about NATO.  It was because Ukraine was at a turning point as a nation.  Having a truly democratic nation next door was the threat to Russia.  Not NATO.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 04, 2022, 02:38:42 PM

I can't express how much I disagree with the bolded part above.


Let's go back to Donbas.  Why did it explode?  Because of a language law.  A law the West did not support.  The EU, in particular, is very strong on minority language rights. 


How has "the West" been pumping up Ukraine?  It hasn't.  It's true, the West trained Ukrainians in activism and democratic principles, but it also trained them in how to open banks, run hospitals, etc.  But the democracy in Ukraine was homegrown.  It was never imposed by the West.  There are about 10 million people of Ukrainian descent living in Western countries, and many of their parents and grandparents were fighting for Ukrainian independence and democracy when Ukraine was still part of the USSR.  So when the Soviet Union collapsed, many of them went to Ukraine, to aid in establishing a working government and civil life.  They underestimated the problems, but they did aid, with significant funding from the US government, in creating a stable, democratic state. 


Ukraine's democracy is young, and is rife with corruption and inefficiency.  But unlike in Russia, people there were not afraid to criticize elected officials.  Unlike in Russia, they could demonstrate freely, whenever they wished.


I do not believe for a moment that the invasion of Ukraine is about NATO.  It was because Ukraine was at a turning point as a nation.  Having a truly democratic nation next door was the threat to Russia.  Not NATO.

While often condemned nowadays as anachronistic or idealized, there remain some fundamental truths. One of which is that Communist ideology conflicts with and is threatened by Democratic ideology.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 04, 2022, 02:43:31 PM
If I were a foreign investor, I'd be uninterested in investing in the US or Europe going forward.   Foreign investment is one of the keys to the US economy.  A lot of our taxes are paid by foreigners who invest in our real estate, stocks, and projects.  We don't make very much stuff here in the states to export, so this was one of the ways to recapture some of the money we hemorrhage on imports. 

Chinese, Russian, Indian among others may reconsider investing here and stick to investing in their home countries.  I think the idea WAS to invest some of their assets here in the states to diversify their portfolios.  The US is proving to be an unsafe place to invest, as assets can be seized suddenly.  This is a complaint I often hear about investing in the 3rd world, that laws can change overnight, and you suddenly lose everything. 

I will be curious to see if there is a long-term effect from US and EU policy. 


Ironically enough, this came up as a 'joke' in our meeting this morning. There has been more than a brisk influx of foreign investments to develop studios and soundstages in various SoCal locations. It's taken over residential and solar centers construction. The streaming industry is literally causing investors to trip over themselves to be the first to lure such companies as Netflix, Disney, Paramount, Sony, etc... Someone barked at the meeting, watching the seizure of all Russia-related properties and investment, how absurd this (studio development) will be with (Japan, Qatar, China, et al) would someday soon trip over the proverbial line and pissed the US off and sanction their butts and take these over.


Then someone said, under this scenario how odd will it be had China had sanctioning power and the US pissing them off. Imagine all the investment we have staked in China.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 04, 2022, 02:50:10 PM

Ironically enough, this came up as a 'joke' in our meeting this morning. There has been more than a brisk influx of foreign investments to develop studios and soundstages in various SoCal locations. It's taken over residential and solar centers construction. The streaming industry is literally causing investors to trip over themselves to be the first to lure such companies as Netflix, Disney, Paramount, Sony, etc... Someone barked at the meeting, watching the seizure of all Russia-related properties and investment, how absurd this (studio development) will be with (Japan, Qatar, China, et al) would someday soon trip over the proverbial line and pissed the US off and sanction their butts and take these over.


Then someone said, under this scenario how odd will it be had China had sanctioning power and the US pissing them off. Imagine all the investment we have staked in China.

Are you suggesting China does NOT have "sanctioning power"?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 04, 2022, 03:09:29 PM
Are you suggesting China does NOT have "sanctioning power"?


The post said: "Then SOMEONE said...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 04, 2022, 03:12:46 PM

The post said: "Then SOMEONE said...

OK. I wanted to be sure of your intent because I didn't want readers to be given the mistaken impression that China has no sanctioning power. They have just as much as the US does. And they've used it against US firms and individuals.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on March 04, 2022, 03:17:01 PM
OK. I wanted to be sure of your intent because I didn't want readers to be given the mistaken impression that China has no sanctioning power. They have just as much as the US does. And they've used it against US firms and individuals.


I posted the 'intent'. What else is there to be sure about? Every nation have 'sanctioning power' to serve their interest/s if they so chooses. China had exercise such with CZ, Estonia, EU et al. Not very good at it, but they do.


Anything else you'd like to be sure of?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2022, 04:11:03 PM
While often condemned nowadays as anachronistic or idealized, there remain some fundamental truths. One of which is that Communist ideology conflicts with and is threatened by Democratic ideology.


It doesn't have to be threatened, as in theory (though not in practice), communism has many desirable aspects.


I was reading a piece on Putin's cabinet, and the fact most were in the dark about the invasion.  What caught my eye, though, is that I believe but for one, they are all between 65 and 72.  So, in the twilight of their lives.  Yet these old men and women have zero compunction about sending 19 and 20 year old boys to die, or to kill scores of innocent Ukrainians. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 05:25:02 PM

I can't express how much I disagree with the bolded part above.

How has "the West" been pumping up Ukraine?  It hasn't. 
 
I was referring to the pumping up of the Ukraine military, and possibly giving them the idea, they would be fully backed up. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 04, 2022, 05:28:51 PM
I was referring to the pumping up of the Ukraine military, and possibly giving them the idea, they would be fully backed up. 

Fathertime!

???
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 05:30:35 PM

I do not believe for a moment that the invasion of Ukraine is about NATO.  It was because Ukraine was at a turning point as a nation.  Having a truly democratic nation next door was the threat to Russia.  Not NATO.
I think Russia is rightfully concerned they would end up with another fairly unfriendly country nearby.  A country that would work against their interests, and side with the collective state of the EU and the USA.   I am pretty sure that was going to happen at some point, 10, 20, 30 years away.   

I also would say NATO was another reason....but the top reason was the competitive disadvantage they probably thought they would find themselves getting into.
I don't think democracy itself is an important factor. 
Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 04, 2022, 08:23:35 PM
It seems that Europeans and Americans think our problem and views should be shared by everybody else on the planet.  Oftentimes if they are not shared, a sanctions regiment is threatened or rolled out.    The 'appeal to hypocrisy' seems to weigh heavier in many regions than the 'appeals to emotion'. 


Shunned by Others, Russia Finds Friends in Africa

....One of Putin’s staunchest defenders in the past week was a powerful figure in Uganda, a major customer for Russian weapons. Lt. Gen. Muhoozi Kainerugaba, son of Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni, said in a tweet: “The majority of mankind (that are nonwhite) support Russia’s stand in Ukraine.”......

.....He added, “When the USSR parked nuclear armed missiles in Cuba in 1962, the West was ready to blow up the world over it. Now when NATO does the same, they expect Russia to do differently.”.....

African sympathies for Ukraine were also diluted by reports of Ukrainian border guards forcing African students to the back of lines as they attempted to leave the country, raising a furor over racism and discrimination. President Muhammadu Buhari of Nigeria, which has 4,000 students in Ukraine, decried the reports......

  http://www.yahoo.com/news/shunned-others-russia-finds-friends-131113054.html  (http://www.yahoo.com/news/shunned-others-russia-finds-friends-131113054.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 05, 2022, 06:27:49 AM
It seems that Europeans and Americans think our problem and views should be shared by everybody else on the planet.  Oftentimes if they are not shared, a sanctions regiment is threatened or rolled out.    The 'appeal to hypocrisy' seems to weigh heavier in many regions than the 'appeals to emotion'. 


Shunned by Others, Russia Finds Friends in Africa

....One of Putin’s staunchest defenders in the past week was a powerful figure in Uganda, a major customer for Russian weapons. Lt. Gen. Muhoozi Kainerugaba, son of Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni, said in a tweet: “The majority of mankind (that are nonwhite) support Russia’s stand in Ukraine.”......

.....He added, “When the USSR parked nuclear armed missiles in Cuba in 1962, the West was ready to blow up the world over it. Now when NATO does the same, they expect Russia to do differently.”.....

African sympathies for Ukraine were also diluted by reports of Ukrainian border guards forcing African students to the back of lines as they attempted to leave the country, raising a furor over racism and discrimination. President Muhammadu Buhari of Nigeria, which has 4,000 students in Ukraine, decried the reports......

  http://www.yahoo.com/news/shunned-others-russia-finds-friends-131113054.html  (http://www.yahoo.com/news/shunned-others-russia-finds-friends-131113054.html)

Fathertime!

Except the fact that Ukraine wasnt likely be accepted into NATO, and if so not a nuckear nation anymore and unlikely to have nuclear missles there.
Why do these pieces continually exclude Estonia and Latvia,  nato nations on russias border and not a perp about that, no nukes there either and how long have they been in NATO.

Cuba was a different time,missles were at a much greater advantage if based closer.

Is that really a talking point in 2022,when if* Russia or anyone was to be attacked in this fashion,or leveraged by threat if it, the distance the missles traveled was technically over come many years ago and is not relevant to the degree of threat.

We are being fed a line of bullshit.
They had back.pack nukes in 1980,im.quite sure this advanced significantly.
The amount  of naval  nuckear power both countries have in a single sub today , is far greater than anything discussed being put in Cuba in the 60s.

In the end you can only kill someone once, one sub would do it
All.parties involved know this well,
So again the bullshit of worrying if an nuclear missle is located 200 km away or 1000km is ridiculous at a level I cant believe the public stomachs.

Yes the defense suchcan be marginally more effective if there is slightly more.time,but that's an insane premosevto build a war off of.

I don't have the answers ,but I do know the ones we are fed are bullshit
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2022, 07:49:32 AM

Cuba was a different time,missles were at a much greater advantage if based closer.

Is that really a talking point in 2022,when if* Russia or anyone was to be attacked in this fashion,or leveraged by threat if it, the distance the missles traveled was technically over come many years ago and is not relevant to the degree of threat.

We are being fed a line of bullshit.
They had back.pack nukes in 1980,im.quite sure this advanced significantly.
The amount  of naval  nuckear power both countries have in a single sub today , is far greater than anything discussed being put in Cuba in the 60s.

In the end you can only kill someone once, one sub would do it
All.parties involved know this well,
So again the bullshit of worrying if an nuclear missle is located 200 km away or 1000km is ridiculous at a level I cant believe the public stomachs.
 

I don't have the answers ,but I do know the ones we are fed are bullshit
These are some good points regarding NATO. 

It stills seems Russia didn't want another somewhat hostile NATO nation right there on their border.  Another nation chipping in against their interests. 

I think the more important factors are finances, and long-term resources.   

Russia sees the US with it's (Self Interested) global adventurism and wars and decides to keep up they have to do  it themselves.

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 05, 2022, 10:26:30 AM
African sympathies for Ukraine were also diluted by reports of Ukrainian border guards forcing African students to the back of lines as they attempted to leave the country, raising a furor over racism and discrimination. President Muhammadu Buhari of Nigeria, which has 4,000 students in Ukraine, decried the reports......

This info is totally false.
What was happening was that Africans (also Indians) were pushing ahead of Ukrainian women and children.
Only then were they sent to the back.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 05, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
It stills seems Russia didn't want another somewhat hostile NATO nation right there on their border.  Another nation chipping in against their interests. 

This is so ridiculous I am surprised anyone would type such words.
By taking over Ukraine, Russia will have expanded the NATO countries on its border by 4:  Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania.

And by Russia's own terrorist actions, this will soon be expanded by 2 more:  Finland and Sweden.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2022, 11:30:54 AM
This is so ridiculous I am surprised anyone would type such words.
 
You must be new here, there have been plenty of things typed more ridiculous than this!

The result of this eruption will be more NATO perhaps, and or maybe something else....

This info is totally false.
What was happening was that Africans (also Indians) were pushing ahead of Ukrainian women and children.
Only then were they sent to the back.

If you go off of individual accountings, it seems there are some legit claims.  Or it is always possible everybody is lying.    It is hard to believe that Africans would have the audacity to push ahead of everybody else.  They already stand out as different, it would be amazingly arrogant for them to push up and create a scene like that, given the whole situation.

Fathertime!   

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 05, 2022, 12:04:56 PM
   It is hard to believe that Africans would have the audacity to push ahead of everybody else.  They already stand out as different, it would be amazingly arrogant for them to push up and create a scene like that, given the whole situation.

But you are not understanding the background of many of the African (and Indian) people (mostly students in the current case).

Many (most) of them are considered the elites of their countries.
Their family money and status (Brahmins and Kshatriyas in the case of Indians) is what allows them to go to other countries to study.
They are used to being deferred to by others and feel it is their right (without even considering it) to take any actions (including to push to front of lines) to achieve whatever they want.

I have seen (by accident) their actions first hand here in USA, although  they are generally very careful to not have such actions seen by persons of authority here in USA.

To me they are super pleasant, but to shopkeepers and blue collar folks, not so.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 05, 2022, 12:24:05 PM
But you are not understanding the background of many of the African (and Indian) people (mostly students in the current case).

Many (most) of them are considered the elites of their countries.
Their family money and status (Brahmins and Kshatriyas in the case of Indians) is what allows them to go to other countries to study.
They are used to being deferred to by others and feel it is their right (without even considering it) to take any actions (including to push to front of lines) to achieve whatever they want.

I have seen (by accident) their actions first hand here in USA, although  they are generally very careful to not have such actions seen by persons of authority here in USA.

To me they are super pleasant, but to shopkeepers and blue collar folks, not so.
Umm, I disagree.

The students who go to Ukraine are those who aren’t able to get into institutions in their own country and it also costs a lot more there.
So they go to Ukraine, no highly competitive exams to get admission and much cheaper.
Caste or social status doesn’t enter into the equation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2022, 12:30:44 PM


To me they are super pleasant, but to shopkeepers and blue collar folks, not so.

Indians and Africans (Nigerians) have been the most difficult people to deal with in my shop.  Nevertheless most of the time, I can square things away well enough. 

But you are not understanding the background of many of the African (and Indian) people (mostly students in the current case).

Many (most) of them are considered the elites of their countries.
Their family money and status (Brahmins and Kshatriyas in the case of Indians) is what allows them to go to other countries to study.
They are used to being deferred to by others and feel it is their right (without even considering it) to take any actions (including to push to front of lines) to achieve whatever they want.

I have seen (by accident) their actions first hand here in USA, although  they are generally very careful to not have such actions seen by persons of authority here in USA.

I'm really having a hard time believing they would push up in line ahead of all the natives.   Just doesn't seem likely.  They would be cruising for an ass-kicking, and as they stand out so dramatically to begin with, I just don't see it happening like that. 

The entitled elite part though does ring at least somewhat accurate.  I'm not there obviously...

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 05, 2022, 01:41:53 PM

It is shown in the videos of BandB and JohnnyFD leaving Ukraine.
Indians pushing into the lines at the Railroad station.
Johnny also has an interview with some Africans.

http://www.youtube.com/c/JohnnyFD/videos (http://www.youtube.com/c/JohnnyFD/videos)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBxFH_hEwA
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2022, 02:19:24 PM
I'm really having a hard time believing they would push up in line ahead of all the natives.   Just doesn't seem likely.  They would be cruising for an ass-kicking, and as they stand out so dramatically to begin with, I just don't see it happening like that. 


No, they did push ahead. This is according to most of what I've read and seen online. 


As I posted previously, Ukrainians have a particular attitude toward women and children.  So men, whether local or foreign, are always going to be behind women and children with Ukrainian border guards.  Maksym Chmerkovskiy , who apparently is on Dancing with the Stars, crossed the border.  He said he was "embarrased and ashamed", as he was the only man crossing the border. 


The scene at the border is chaotic.  Those foreign students were always going to have to wait a long time.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 07:43:58 PM
Only a complete idiot can't see the contradiction in what you are writing.   You state all Americans living abroad are 'guilty'.  (Idiotic statement), because they 'tacitly' agree with their host country's government. 
 

No, I didn't say that.  You are trying to put words in my mouth.

Anyone who lives in a foreign country, do so as a privilege extended by the host government.  They tacitly agree that they are there as a privilege and by the favor of the host government, and that privilege can be revoked should they fall out of favor of the host government.

Quote
After this, you try to demand all Russians living here in green card status be expelled or imprisoned...you say this while saying how expats tacitly approve of the government in their host country (Russians here).

I didn't say they have to approve of the host government.  They just agreed to abide by the rules that allow them to be there by privilege.

We need only to look at Switzerland.  What did they just do?  They just suspended all visas issued to Russians, except diplomatic visas.  They stated that they will not allow any Russians to be in Switzerland.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2022, 07:52:05 PM
Only a complete idiot can't see the contradiction in what you are writing.   You state all Americans living abroad are 'guilty'.  (Idiotic statement), because they 'tacitly' agree with their host country's government.

No, I didn't say that.  You are trying to put words in my mouth.

Yes, you are guilty of something.  You are guilty of choosing to live there.  You are guilty of tacitly agreeing with the decisions of the government there.

Seems to me YOU did make that statement.  Are you now denying it, or do you need to clarify it in some way...

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 07:53:55 PM
As an American living abroad, I don't see it this way.  I live in a country that provides immigrants the same rights that a citizen has.  The only exception is voting and the possibility of expulsion if I break the law in a significant way. Privilege by your definition, implies immigrants should be afforded fewer rights than a citizen.  That is not the case here, nor is it, AFAIK, the case in the US.

You don't seem to understand the difference between rights and privileges.  If someone is in another country by privilege, then they have privileges which may mirror the rights given to citizens of the host country.

There's an old saying.  Possession is 9/10th's of the law.  (legal title is the other 1/10th.)
Someone who owns a house has the right to live in it.
A renter appears to have the right to live in a house. (9/10th)  But really, they are there by privilege and not by right.  (and they can lose that privilege, as easily evidenced by evictions.)

Quote
After this, you try to demand all Russians living here in green card status be expelled or imprisoned...you say this while saying how expats tacitly approve of the government in their host country (Russians here).

No, I am just a strong supporter of strong property rights.  (and I didn't say that expats have to approve of a host government's actions.  They just tacitly agree that they are there by favor of the host government, and the host government can name them a persona non-grata if they wish, and boot them out.)

Those arguing that expats have rights (which are actually privileges) are just trying to erode property rights.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 08:09:41 PM
Bee Farmer-
Having lived abroad in many countries long term,I am all too  familiar with the privilege granted by the host governments honoring a visa they issued ,and that they can certainly choose to revoke that visa at any time.


Fortunately none of them are prone to toddler like tantrums ,or likely to hold foreign workers in thier countries liable for the foreign policy decisions of their national.governments,as they recognize those can change on a dime.

Having the right to do something, doesn't always make it the right thing to do. This seems a concept that is easy for most to grasp.


Get back to me when the usa revokes those here on  visas ok?

Are you aware that Switzerland just suspended all Russian visas except for diplomatic visas, and said they would not allow any Russians to be there?

Are you forgetting that the US put Japanese-Americans in concentration camps in WWII?  What makes you think they wouldn't do something similar again when faced with another  war?  Oh wait, we are faced with another war...caused by Russia invading and attacking Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 08:15:47 PM
I mentioned to wife how it is a shame that other countries didn't earlier send the planes and weapons to Ukraine that they are now doing.

She said quite simple explanation:

Countries did not believe Ukraine would last very long, and didn't want all the weapons to end up in the hands of Russians.

The US approved to send early models of the Javelin to Ukraine.  They are not sending the latest and the greatest Javelin anti-tank weaponry.  I assume the US thinks Russia already has that technology, or that it will not pose much threat to us if Russia gains that technology.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 08:27:35 PM
We can all claim to be geniuses or too good to be used as cannon fodder. After all who would want to be cannon fodder? Those that are fighting in Ukraine at the moment feel that they have no choice.


Genius is not determined by self-made claims.  Generally, you have to have an IQ above 140 to be classified as a genius.

Anyone with a 130-135 IQ can pretty much learn to do any job.
Most college kids in STEM fields have an IQ of 120+.
Average white IQ is around 100.
With an IQ of 90, a person has a hard time following written instructions.  You see people with this IQ doing manual labor jobs, rather than intellectual jobs.  (Average Mexican IQ is 91.)
Average African-American IQ is 85.  (At this IQ and below, you see a lot of welfare, as they have a hard time learning jobs that require thinking.)
The US military will not allow anyone to join if their IQ is less than 83.  They are basically so stupid they are more of a liability than an asset.  When the government has allowed soldiers with lower IQ's into the military, we ended up with McNamara's Morons.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 08:51:30 PM

I was listening to talk radio on the way home today.  Commentator said that the US and Europe have confiscated trillions in Russian money.   Once this battle is over, and the West tries to hold it, Russia will seemingly have little way to get their money returned....seemingly.   

I think trillions is overblown.  Russia had $600 billion.  (Who knows how much was frozen from oligarch accounts.)

If Ukraine remains a nation state, odds are they will sue Russia for the damage to their country in some international court.  If they win, they would be able to take some of the money that is held by sanctions.

Something tells me that if Ukrainian politicians get their hands on $600 billion, it won't all get spent for the benefit of the Ukrainian citizens.  (But I'd be willing to bet that a number of Ukrainian politicians would end up with fatter bank accounts somewhere.)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 08:59:57 PM
I agree. 
News reporters crying that if Russian oil cut off, prices will rise in the west. 
Who gives a shit about that?? 
I will willingly pay any price for gas and oil to stop Russia. 
Going to cost us a lot more in reconstruction expenses.

We might have to open the Keystone pipeline...and we can't have that.

Reconstruction?  I'm surprised anyone is even mentioning that.  You mean there's going to be a 'what comes after'?  Doesn't everyone just ride off in the sunset? (Or live in the new gulag called Ukraine, if Russia wins.)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 05, 2022, 09:09:58 PM
Average African-American IQ is 85.

I was dubious about this low number, but did a search and even the super left wing Brookings Institute studies indicates it is true.

You can go directly to the last page (13) for the facts as many of the first pages are too obtuse.

http://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/20060619_IQ_ppt.pdf
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 05, 2022, 09:14:17 PM
After Ukraine is decimated due to western countries refusal to give full needed help . . . then Russia will go after Finland.

The west will say, enough is enough, and throw everything we have at Russia to save non-NATO Finland.

Try explaining that to the Ukrainians who survive.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 05, 2022, 09:24:22 PM
In a rare moment of 'light' banter, wife and I had a series of back and forth comments.

Me: Suppose western countries did attempt to set up a no fly zone over Ukraine.
She: West would surely shoot down some Russian planes and Russia would scream.
Me: We could do just as the Russians always do which is to lie and deny.
She: Yes, we could say there were no western planes over the sky in Ukraine.
Me: Yes, when Russia would again state their planes were shot down, we would say: We have no credible evidence that any western planes were in the sky.
She: If your Russian planes went missing, it's probably due to malfunction of your Russian planes.  In fact, we don't think you even have planes available to be shot down.
Me: If your Russian planes shot down, it was probably by your own troops misfiring your antiaircraft missiles.
etc., etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 09:28:07 PM
I'm going to have disagree to the relevance issue.   I can't speak for Russia, but from their view they may well think what is good for the goose is good for the gander.   
I'm attempting to put myself in their shoes.  From their viewpoint they probably think they need to limit how far the West can start to have influence and right up on their doorstep is too far.       

If they want to limit the West's influence, that is EASY.  Improve the quality of their citizens' lives.  Give them a quality of life that equals or exceeds Western life.

Boom. It's that simple.  If they do that, their sphere of influence will grow.

But if they want to play mafia gangster, then they will always have to resort to strongarm tactics to hold power and influence.

Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. are not Western countries.  If Russia gave its citizens the quality of life that Hong Kong and Singapore citizens have, you would see Ukraine falling over itself to be buddies with Russia.  Ukraine wouldn't give one iota about Europe or the West.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2022, 09:47:44 PM
If they want to limit the West's influence, that is EASY.  Improve the quality of their citizens' lives.  Give them a quality of life that equals or exceeds Western life.

Boom. It's that simple.  If they do that, their sphere of influence will grow.

But if they want to play mafia gangster, then they will always have to resort to strongarm tactics to hold power and influence.
The obvious answer to this from a Russian perspective could easily be..... The West has already been playing gangster in nations such as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan...etc etc.   To compete we have to be gangsters too. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 09:49:40 PM


Years ago when it was Syrian's trying to escape, they were called dregs of society, and terrorists among chants of send them back! ....now that it is Ukrainians, they are civilians.     In both cases they are civilians.   

But is it racial, or is it cultural?

The average IQ of Syrian refugees was 81.6.  In Western societies, this means they could draw welfare benefits.  The average Syrian refugee would be a burden on society, rather than a blessing.
The average Ukrainian refugee has an IQ around 100.  They are going to have the potential to learn jobs and be a productive member of society.  (Yes, a Syrian has the potential to be a ditch digger, but backhoes and excavators eliminated the need for ditch diggers.)

How many Syrian refugees had a college degree?  How many Ukrainian refugees have a college degree?

How many Syrian refugees had a Muslim faith that is hostile to Western Christianity?  But Ukrainians are Christians too.

Which refugee is going to be able to assimilate into Western culture easier?  The Ukrainian.

It's not racial discrimination.  It's cultural.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 09:59:17 PM

I do not believe for a moment that the invasion of Ukraine is about NATO.  It was because Ukraine was at a turning point as a nation.  Having a truly democratic nation next door was the threat to Russia.  Not NATO.

I agree.  Latvia and Estonia border Russia, and they are both NATO members.  Lithuania and Poland are both NATO and they surround Kaliningrad.  (Which incidentally was historically German, so it should be returned to German if you accept Putin's argument.)

Have you ever seen someone who had to sell off part of the family farm, and then for years afterwards was bitter and resentful, because it was supposed to be 'their' farm?  That's what Putin reminds me of...that mentality.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 05, 2022, 10:03:17 PM

An Indian guy was complaining at Kiev train station that he'd been pushed back with a rifle butt in his back,but he'd been trying to force his way past a Ukrainian woman and her child onto a train.Black men on the steps leading up to the platform were being VERY aggressive toward Ukrainian women and their children in their way,until Ukrainian troops yelled at them to get back,and then lifted the women and children up out of the crush and onto the platform..this was all filmed by Sky News.
It was my understanding that men between 18 and 60 were not permitted to leave Ukraine. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2022, 10:06:45 PM
It was my understanding that men between 18 and 60 were not permitted to leave Ukraine.
Applies to Ukrainian citizens only. Male foreigners of any age in Ukraine are allowed to depart.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 10:07:51 PM

It doesn't have to be threatened, as in theory (though not in practice), communism has many desirable aspects.


I was reading a piece on Putin's cabinet, and the fact most were in the dark about the invasion.   

Communism is probably the ideal form of government, but the problem is that it is only ideal at the family level.  You can't scale it up past that.

At the family level, the parents and all the kids have clothes to wear, and food to eat.  They all live in the same house with the same amenities.  (Yes, there are examples of bad parents, but I think they are the exception and not the rule.)

From what I can tell, (and reading between the lines a little) I got the impression that Putin duped everyone into believing that he was just going to send a few troops into Donbass as peacekeepers after they recognized them as independent republics.  So Parliament agreed to recognize Luhansk and Donetsk and authorize troops to operate outside Russia...they gave Putin a blank check, and he ran with it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2022, 10:13:40 PM
The obvious answer to this from a Russian perspective could easily be..... The West has already been playing gangster in nations such as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan...etc etc.   To compete we have to be gangsters too. 

Fathertime!

To be certain everyone recognizes the dubious posting style .... something which "could easily be" is NOT the same as "obvious." Time and again FT engages in bloviated hypotheses used as a foil to criticize the US and the West. The pattern is the same ad nauseum.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2022, 10:19:29 PM
To be certain everyone recognizes the dubious posting style .... something which "could easily be" is NOT the same as "obvious." Time and again FT engages in bloviated hypotheses used as a foil to criticize the US and the West. The pattern is the same ad nauseum.

Aside from the sematic type inconsistency...the point itself is valid enough to make.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2022, 10:22:10 PM
If they want to limit the West's influence, that is EASY.  Improve the quality of their citizens' lives.  Give them a quality of life that equals or exceeds Western life.

Boom. It's that simple.  If they do that, their sphere of influence will grow.

But if they want to play mafia gangster, then they will always have to resort to strongarm tactics to hold power and influence.

Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. are not Western countries.  If Russia gave its citizens the quality of life that Hong Kong and Singapore citizens have, you would see Ukraine falling over itself to be buddies with Russia.  Ukraine wouldn't give one iota about Europe or the West.

I'd clarify an important point about your parallel, and that is Singapore and Hong Kong are not the same in terms of their connection to the regional superpower. Whereas Hong Kong was ceded back to China from Britain in 1997, Singapore is an independent nation-state having no political connections to China. Singapore enjoys a higher standard of living equal to the US. I have probably 100 (or more) visa stamps from transiting or visiting Singapore, along with half that to Hong Kong. There is no other city like Singapore in Asia. It is massively different. In that regard, at least, your parallel to suggest China provides for Hong Kong and Singapore standards of living is really only correct for Hong Kong.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2022, 10:33:23 PM
Genius is not determined by self-made claims.  Generally, you have to have an IQ above 140 to be classified as a genius.

Anyone with a 130-135 IQ can pretty much learn to do any job.
Most college kids in STEM fields have an IQ of 120+.
Average white IQ is around 100.
With an IQ of 90, a person has a hard time following written instructions.  You see people with this IQ doing manual labor jobs, rather than intellectual jobs.  (Average Mexican IQ is 91.)
Average African-American IQ is 85.  (At this IQ and below, you see a lot of welfare, as they have a hard time learning jobs that require thinking.)
The US military will not allow anyone to join if their IQ is less than 83.  They are basically so stupid they are more of a liability than an asset.  When the government has allowed soldiers with lower IQ's into the military, we ended up with McNamara's Morons.


So this is another potential quagmire, this one involving race and Intelligence Quotient (IQ). The most authoritative book I know of on the topic was highly controversial called "The Bell Curve." The authors were well-respected academics and researchers. I recall it was published more than a decade ago and it aroused enormous debate and sparked huge arguments. I accept that the study exists. I accept that there are works which counter those studies. Beyond that, I really do NOT want a re-hash of all that here at RWD. Readers/members can find those details elsewhere.


Appreciate everyone's efforts to keep race out of any debate. It leads down a rabbit hole that will result in topic closures and post removals, etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 10:41:14 PM
In a rare moment of 'light' banter, wife and I had a series of back and forth comments.

Me: Suppose western countries did attempt to set up a no fly zone over Ukraine.
She: West would surely shoot down some Russian planes and Russia would scream.
Me: We could do just as the Russians always do which is to lie and deny.
She: Yes, we could say there were no western planes over the sky in Ukraine.
Me: Yes, when Russia would again state their planes were shot down, we would say: We have no credible evidence that any western planes were in the sky.
She: If your Russian planes went missing, it's probably due to malfunction of your Russian planes.  In fact, we don't think you even have planes available to be shot down.
Me: If your Russian planes shot down, it was probably by your own troops misfiring your antiaircraft missiles.
etc., etc.

I have told people (including my Congressional rep) that if we are unwilling to impose a no-fly zone, we should have covert military action.  Fly F-22 Raptors and B-2 Stealth bombers at night so nobody could take photos.  We bomb Russian positions at night, and shoot down any Russian aircraft flying at night.

We would have deniability.  No, it wasn't us.  It must have been the Ukrainian military.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 05, 2022, 10:44:57 PM
The obvious answer to this from a Russian perspective could easily be..... The West has already been playing gangster in nations such as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan...etc etc.   To compete we have to be gangsters too. 

The Holodomor was long before the things you mentioned.  If the Holodomor wasn't gangster, I don't know what is.

The Russians don't have to be gangster to compete with other nations, because they took the gangster path first.  (One could argue that the West started being gangster to compete.)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 05, 2022, 10:51:43 PM
I have told people (including my Congressional rep) that if we are unwilling to impose a no-fly zone, we should have covert military action.  Fly F-22 Raptors and B-2 Stealth bombers at night so nobody could take photos.  We bomb Russian positions at night, and shoot down any Russian aircraft flying at night.

We would have deniability.  No, it wasn't us.  It must have been the Ukrainian military.
Any direct confrontation with the Russian forces from any NATO country is a direct way for a nuke party.
The Russian Federation is already enough nervous, the option in Ukraine of a tactical nuke is already a feared topic...So if you want WW3...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2022, 11:15:18 PM
Any direct confrontation with the Russian forces from any NATO country is a direct way for a nuke party.
The Russian Federation is already enough nervous, the option in Ukraine of a tactical nuke is already a feared topic...So if you want WW3...

Yes, it seems everyone is quaking in their boots over this. So think it through. What would be the likely response from Russian use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine?

The chance of Russia using a tactical nuclear weapon prior to a strategic nuclear weapon is, IMHO, almost zero. Putin has famously stated that a world without Russia is a world not worth existing - so it must be considered that if Putin believes Mother Russia itself is threatened, a scorched earth (literally as well as figuratively) policy would be implemented. For those who really want to stoke their paranoia fears, look at Russia's Dead Hand automatically engaged strategic nuclear device.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 06, 2022, 02:16:44 AM
Yes, it seems everyone is quaking in their boots over this. So think it through. What would be the likely response from Russian use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine?

The chance of Russia using a tactical nuclear weapon prior to a strategic nuclear weapon is, IMHO, almost zero. Putin has famously stated that a world without Russia is a world not worth existing - so it must be considered that if Putin believes Mother Russia itself is threatened, a scorched earth (literally as well as figuratively) policy would be implemented. For those who really want to stoke their paranoia fears, look at Russia's Dead Hand automatically engaged strategic nuclear device.
Who says that he would use a strategic one?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 06, 2022, 04:20:39 AM
The obvious answer to this from a Russian perspective could easily be..... The West has already been playing gangster in nations such as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan...etc etc.   To compete we have to be gangsters too. 

Fathertime!


Russia was playing gangster in Afghanistan before we ever did.


I also remember Russia playing gangster in Georgia.


I also remember Russia playing gangster in Syria..remember the cluster bombs they dropped on civilians there ?.


Russia didn't learn about being gangsters from the west..it's in their DNA.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 06, 2022, 07:48:04 AM
Big demonstrations in USA now..calling for a no fly zone in Ukraine.


Another 3500 people arrested in Russia last night for protests against the war.


Protests against the war in 120 countries this weekend..and Fathertime says people in most countries are not concerned about the war. :rolleyes:


Does he get anything right ?


He did say Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine and he got that totally wrong.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 06, 2022, 08:09:58 AM
Big demonstrations in USA now..calling for a no fly zone in Ukraine.


Another 3500 people arrested in Russia last night for protests against the war.


Protests against the war in 120 countries this weekend..and Fathertime says people in most countries are not concerned about the war. :rolleyes:


Does he get anything right ?


He did say Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine and he got that totally wrong.
Thanks for the mention, you seem to be personalizing this instead of speaking of the issues. 

Protests in countries all the time about everything.  We had protests in the USA during our wars too. 

Fathertime! 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 06, 2022, 08:28:15 AM
Yes, it seems everyone is quaking in their boots over this. So think it through. What would be the likely response from Russian use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine?
Dismissing the topic of nuclear weapons as 'quaking in boots' isn't addressing it.   

The scenario currently is probably (Your favorite word), getting close to the maximum the west can do without forcing a Russian escalation.  Not a straight escalation into nukes, more butchery in Ukraine.     Western media seems to indicate that Europe and the US are pouring $ and weaponry into Ukraine.  Russian leadership is likely (Another favorite word), coming to the realization that they will have to escalate rapidly to end the war quicker before the Western resources come into play.   

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 06, 2022, 10:26:13 AM
Washington — Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday (March 6, 2022) that NATO members have the go-ahead to send fighter jets to Ukraine as the U.S. and allies continue their efforts to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia's invasion.

"That gets a green-light," Blinken said in an interview with "Face the Nation" when asked whether the Polish government, a member of NATO, could send fighter planes to Ukraine. "In fact, we're talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if in fact they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians. What can we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they are handing over to the Ukrainians?"

But then some 'waffling'
A White House spokesperson told CBS News the Biden administration is evaluating the capabilities it could provide to provide jets to Poland if it decided to transfer planes to Ukraine but noted there are several questions that arise from a decision to do so, including how the jets could be transferred from Poland to Ukraine.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 06, 2022, 12:16:04 PM
Wife just read that now Poland has flipped back to NOT sending fighter planes to Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 06, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
Wife just read that now Poland has flipped back to NOT sending fighter planes to Ukraine.

ML, it's due to fear of escalating the war beyond Ukraine. Russia also warned other countries that use of their airports to support Ukraine would result in them being targeted.

The US, NATO and EU position on the war in Ukraine can best be understood as following the principle of 'realpolitik.' You can read the Wikipedia entry about it here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

Essentially it seeks to separate political action/response from emotion. It also separates out the ideology and focuses only on the rational prediction of consequences. Therein lies its fundamental weakness - it depends on the actors to behave rationally. It is useless when it comes to fighting against terrorists, and it quickly loses value when one of the actors is irrational. To this point, the US, EU and NATO are receiving rational signals from Putin. So long as that persists, it will be realpolitik which drives actions. It does not bode well for Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 06, 2022, 03:17:28 PM
IIRC fighters would be classified as offensive weapons.  AFAIK, most if not all weapons provided to UA are defensive.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 06, 2022, 04:34:06 PM
ML, it's due to fear of escalating the war beyond Ukraine. Russia also warned other countries that use of their airports to support Ukraine would result in them being targeted.

The US, NATO and EU position on the war in Ukraine can best be understood as following the principle of 'realpolitik.' You can read the Wikipedia entry about it here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik)

Essentially it seeks to separate political action/response from emotion. It also separates out the ideology and focuses only on the rational prediction of consequences. Therein lies its fundamental weakness - it depends on the actors to behave rationally. It is useless when it comes to fighting against terrorists, and it quickly loses value when one of the actors is irrational. To this point, the US, EU and NATO are receiving rational signals from Putin. So long as that persists, it will be realpolitik which drives actions. It does not bode well for Ukraine.
+1
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2022, 09:34:16 PM
Interesting interview with an American general.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/opinion-why-putin-will-regret-launching-this-war/ar-AAUHOPV?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAggFp5
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 12:13:38 AM
Can videos be posted here? Very graphic content, not from MSM.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2022, 12:22:43 AM
Yes, but I would put a warning on the video.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 01:45:32 AM
Yes, but I would put a warning on the video.
File is too big, I think.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2022, 05:29:52 AM
How about something like putting it on You Tube then posting the link here.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 05:57:22 AM
How about something like putting it on You Tube then posting the link here.
No, it’s not suitable.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 07, 2022, 06:42:42 AM
No, it’s not suitable.


imgur.com/
streamable.com/
mega.com

maybe?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 07, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
 
Russia's demands for an end of its operations are less than I would have expected.  Perhaps Ukraine leadership will decide it is better to live with these than the alternatives.  I would suspect that the demands would grow the more Russia invests, and obviously the death count and destruction does nothing but grow. 



Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin
 
LONDON (Reuters) -Russia has told Ukraine it is ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv meets a list of conditions, the Kremlin spokesman said on Monday.

Dmitry Peskov said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 07:18:34 AM

imgur.com/
streamable.com/
mega.com

maybe?
I’m not on any of those sites.

I’ll try and edit to reduce the file size. Won’t be for a while though.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 07:45:27 AM

Russia's demands for an end of its operations are less than I would have expected.  Perhaps Ukraine leadership will decide it is better to live with these than the alternatives.  I would suspect that the demands would grow the more Russia invests, and obviously the death count and destruction does nothing but grow. 



Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin
 
LONDON (Reuters) -Russia has told Ukraine it is ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv meets a list of conditions, the Kremlin spokesman said on Monday.

Dmitry Peskov said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html)

Fathertime!
NATO Ukraine's membership is highly questionable and I suppose that USA has some responsibility of Zelinsky's mind with this. The EU membership will need at least 12 years before becoming reality, again Zelinski asking to be part of the EU for tomorrow is laughable.

However, the only thing I am sure of every day passing by is the list of demands from the Russian Federation is naturally going to shrink because the RF already know that they will have to bail out and the number of their days in Ukraine is compted, they know this.And now they try to get a political gain from this. Which is likely to look like a player at Vegas casino having fewer and fewer cards in his hand but still trying to bid high before he loses the entire party and all his money. 
 
When you read the communique you already know that they will not stay in Ukraine
 
This is why Ukraine has to continue the attrition of the RF Army. The time is clocking in favor of Ukraine. RF knows that they have already lost the party and internally the power is at stake as the days are passing by. Even if Ukraine was signing, the RF will maybe not stand like it was.
The breakdown of the RF regime can happen every day and very fast now. So they try to materialize their gains right now before the cards are over. 
The RF is demilitarizing herself and proving right now that her world military ranking, the guarantee of her political power, is questionable on the battlefield. No military HQ in the world has missed the point believe me.
The demilitarization of the RF means that they will need 5 years at least before being militarily capable to conduct the same level of operation
 that they started two weeks ago. But the political conditions will never be the same, internally and externally. 
 
They have played their chances for a coup and missed the shot. They hope to get some benefits, but in fact, they maybe could pay the bill.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 07, 2022, 08:45:37 AM


However, the only thing I am sure of every day passing by is the list of demands from the Russian Federation is naturally going to shrink because the RF already know that they will have to bail out and the number of their days in Ukraine is compted, they know this.And now they try to get a political gain from this. Which is likely to look like a player at Vegas casino having fewer and fewer cards in his hand but still trying to bid high before he loses the entire party and all his money. 
 

Given the totality of the situation the demands weren't as big as perhaps expected.   It could be that Putin's demands were made public to provide some political cover to the nations that aren't cutting Russia off.  Nations like China, India, Pakistan could see these demands as not unreasonable, given the circumstances.  If that is the case, those nations could continue to provide outlets for Russia, now and in the future.   

However, the only thing I am sure of every day passing by is the list of demands from the Russian Federation is naturally going to shrink because the RF already know that they will have to bail out a
 
This is why Ukraine has to continue the attrition of the RF Army. The time is clocking in favor of Ukraine. RF knows that they have already lost the party and internally the power is at stake as the days are passing by.
If Russia's demands are going to shrink, as you assert, then Ukraine would have more incentive to continue to fight.   I'm not convinced that will be the case unless Russia is willing to take a total loss.  It seems they would go to much greater lengths which would encompass destruction of Ukraine on an even much wider scale. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 09:20:00 AM
Given the totality of the situation the demands weren't as big as perhaps expected.   It could be that Putin's demands were made public to provide some political cover to the nations that aren't cutting Russia off.  Nations like China, India, Pakistan could see these demands as not unreasonable, given the circumstances.  If that is the case, those nations could continue to provide outlets for Russia, now and in the future.   
If Russia's demands are going to shrink, as you assert, then Ukraine would have more incentive to continue to fight.   I'm not convinced that will be the case unless Russia is willing to take a total loss.  It seems they would go to much greater lengths which would encompass destruction of Ukraine on an even much wider scale. 

Fathertime!
Correct
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 07, 2022, 10:57:40 AM
Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin
 
LONDON (Reuters) -Russia has told Ukraine it is ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv meets a list of conditions, the Kremlin spokesman said on Monday.

Dmitry Peskov said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html)

Fathertime!

I don't know what to advise on this . . . as I don't want a surrender, but also want the killing to stop.

I do pray that if war stops, that USA and all other nations continue existing sanctions on Russia until Russia provides the funds to rebuild all the structures and infrastructure that has been destroyed by them in Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2022, 10:59:59 AM
Guys, look at the map, Russian forces have now reached Kyiv from the North (finally) and the East of Kyiv. Russia shelled out Irpin yesterday so it's tanks could move in. The bridge has been blown there and Kyiv is literally the other side. If Russian forces on the East of Kyiv can move around and block the South of Kyiv then Kyiv will be encircled and trapped. It's then just a matter of time. Russian forces don't particularly then have to move into Kyiv, they just wait until food starts running out and Kyivians are fed up of being bombed. The the Capitulation comes and then it is likely a sorted for Russia. By the end of this week things will probably be looking even grimmer in Kyiv then they already are.

I'm surprised Mariupol is still holding out, it can't be much longer until they capitulate, they've been shelled to bits and can't be far from starvation now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 07, 2022, 11:25:50 AM
I don't know what to advise on this . . . as I don't want a surrender, but also want the killing to stop.

I do pray that if war stops, that USA and all other nations continue existing sanctions on Russia until Russia provides the funds to rebuild all the structures and infrastructure that has been destroyed by them in Ukraine.

ML ... this is incredibly, insanely, difficult. Imagine Zelensky and his advisors trying to determine what to do. I am certain he does not want any more Ukrainian - or Russian, for that matter - deaths. But the decision involves more, much more, than that.

As for rebuilding, Zelensky says he is already planning for rebuilding and has contacted numerous sources to secure aid in reconstruction. If Russia occupies Ukraine, I cannot imagine them having or securing the resources to rebuild.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 11:36:53 AM
Guys, look at the map, Russian forces have now reached Kyiv from the North (finally) and the East of Kyiv. Russia shelled out Irpin yesterday so it's tanks could move in. The bridge has been blown there and Kyiv is literally the other side. If Russian forces on the East of Kyiv can move around and block the South of Kyiv then Kyiv will be encircled and trapped. It's then just a matter of time. Russian forces don't particularly then have to move into Kyiv, they just wait until food starts running out and Kyivians are fed up of being bombed. The the Capitulation comes and then it is likely a sorted for Russia. By the end of this week things will probably be looking even grimmer in Kyiv then they already are.

I'm surprised Mariupol is still holding out, it can't be much longer until they capitulate, they've been shelled to bits and can't be far from starvation now.
Mr Armchair General, there are several flaws in your plagiarised summary.
First of all, the Russian supply lines are being severely pulverized. A whole column of fuel trucks was blown up today heading for Kyiv.
Without fuel their armour and supporting vehicles grind to a halt.

So the Russians will not take the city without a fight.
Say in the long run they overrun the defending forces and take Kyiv along with other major population centres, then we will see a long war of attrition.
The Russians will control the major cities but there will be the vast swathes of country in between over which they will have no control. Their supply lines will be vulnerable and without supplies they will be quite vulnerable.
Partisan warfare at its best.

Carry on.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2022, 12:04:05 PM
Given the totality of the situation the demands weren't as big as perhaps expected.   It could be that Putin's demands were made public to provide some political cover to the nations that aren't cutting Russia off.  Nations like China, India, Pakistan could see these demands as not unreasonable, given the circumstances.  If that is the case, those nations could continue to provide outlets for Russia, now and in the future.   
If Russia's demands are going to shrink, as you assert, then Ukraine would have more incentive to continue to fight.   I'm not convinced that will be the case unless Russia is willing to take a total loss.  It seems they would go to much greater lengths which would encompass destruction of Ukraine on an even much wider scale. 

Fathertime!


No, the demands are because internal Russian analysis is telling them they can't win in the long term.  Putin believed the Ukrainian population would capitulate, that his troops would just march in and take the country.  He never expected resistance.  That's why there is this "face saving" measure. 


I don't think Ukraine should agree to neutrality.  I think Ukraine should have good relations with Russia, but given everything that's happened since 2014, that will take at least a generation.


Russia has planted landmines in civilian escape corridors, shot fleeing civilians (women and children), dropped cluster bombs in civilian areas of Kharkiv, and lost control of at least one city they had taken.  They can't go to a "greater scale" unless they are willing to lose thousands of soldiers to do so.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2022, 12:07:51 PM
Partisan warfare at its best.


Yup.  The Soviets didn't defeat Ukrainian partisans in Western Ukraine (the "banderivtsi") until around 1953-54, and those partisans were fighting the Poles simultaneously!  There are thousands of Ukrainian villages, and they can't be taken. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2022, 12:20:22 PM
This is an FSB analysis.  The original article is in the Telegraph (an excellent newspaper).  However, the Telegraph is a pay site and I can't share a token, so I am providing a link to the Daily Mail's synopsis, which is also fairly good, notwithstanding the somewhat dodgy source.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10585325/Russia-facing-total-failure-invasion-Ukraine-Moscow-whistleblower-analyst-claims.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2022, 12:31:14 PM
Wife just read that now Poland has flipped back to NOT sending fighter planes to Ukraine.

Poland doesn't make fighter jets, so they want assurances from the
USA that the jets they give away will be replaced. I haven't found
anything anywhere about who pays for the replacement jets.

I have read reports that replacement jets won't arrive for a couple
years, 2024 or later. Also to be noted are what types of jets would
be given to Ukraine. This is not my expertise, but would think that
right now they could use fighter/bombers and close air support types
that have at least some stealth ability.

I will ask my son what he thinks about it.

If we are giving away planes, I am pretty sure that it would be in
the package that congress is currently putting together, the problem
is when you get politicians involved, they tend to screw it up, screw
around with it, pork it up, hold it up so they can push their green new
deal, etc. etc.



U.S. Congress negotiators nearing deal on Ukraine aid, government funding bill
http://www.reuters.com/world/us/democrats-aim-reset-domestic-legislative-agenda-after-biden-speech-2022-03-07/


White House wants $10 billion for Ukraine aid, $22.5 billion for more COVID help
http://www.virginiamercury.com/2022/03/03/white-house-wants-10-billion-for-ukraine-aid-22-5-billion-for-more-covid-help/



UK pledges another £80 million in aid to help Ukraine deal with humanitarian crisis
http://www.gov.uk/government/news/ukraine-uk-pledges-another-80million-in-aid-to-help-ukraine-deal-with-humanitarian-crisis



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 07, 2022, 12:32:41 PM
This is an FSB analysis.  The original article is in the Telegraph (an excellent newspaper).  However, the Telegraph is a pay site and I can't share a token, so I am providing a link to the Daily Mail's synopsis, which is also fairly good, notwithstanding the somewhat dodgy source.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10585325/Russia-facing-total-failure-invasion-Ukraine-Moscow-whistleblower-analyst-claims.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10585325/Russia-facing-total-failure-invasion-Ukraine-Moscow-whistleblower-analyst-claims.html)

As I wrote in response to a criticism of my choice of sources recently, I care very little about the source itself, if the information is credible and passes my own filtering system, I want to pay attention. I may not agree with all of it, or any of it, but I still pay attention. Thanks for the link. It rings true to my ears, FWIW.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 07, 2022, 12:38:48 PM
Poland doesn't make fighter jets, so they want assurances from the
USA that the jets they give away will be replaced. I haven't found
anything anywhere about who pays for the replacement jets.

I have read reports that replacement jets won't arrive for a couple
years, 2024 or later. Also to be noted are what types of jets would
be given to Ukraine. This is not my expertise, but would think that
right now they could use fighter/bombers and close air support types
that have at least some stealth ability.

I will ask my son what he thinks about it.

If we are giving away planes, I am pretty sure that it would be in
the package that congress is currently putting together, the problem
is when you get politicians involved, they tend to screw it up, screw
around with it, pork it up, hold it up so they can push their green new
deal, etc. etc.



U.S. Congress negotiators nearing deal on Ukraine aid, government funding bill
http://www.reuters.com/world/us/democrats-aim-reset-domestic-legislative-agenda-after-biden-speech-2022-03-07/ (http://www.reuters.com/world/us/democrats-aim-reset-domestic-legislative-agenda-after-biden-speech-2022-03-07/)


White House wants $10 billion for Ukraine aid, $22.5 billion for more COVID help
http://www.virginiamercury.com/2022/03/03/white-house-wants-10-billion-for-ukraine-aid-22-5-billion-for-more-covid-help/ (http://www.virginiamercury.com/2022/03/03/white-house-wants-10-billion-for-ukraine-aid-22-5-billion-for-more-covid-help/)



UK pledges another £80 million in aid to help Ukraine deal with humanitarian crisis
http://www.gov.uk/government/news/ukraine-uk-pledges-another-80million-in-aid-to-help-ukraine-deal-with-humanitarian-crisis (http://www.gov.uk/government/news/ukraine-uk-pledges-another-80million-in-aid-to-help-ukraine-deal-with-humanitarian-crisis)

Poland would transfer older MiG-29's to Ukraine which would be replaced by American F-16's. Poland has as many as 21 of the MiG-29s, but I don't know if all, or only some, of them are under consideration. Lots of details still to be resolved before any transfer is conducted.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2022, 12:39:05 PM
I don't know what to advise on this . . . as I don't want a surrender, but also want the killing to stop.

I do pray that if war stops, that USA and all other nations continue existing sanctions on Russia until Russia provides the funds to rebuild all the structures and infrastructure that has been destroyed by them in Ukraine.

I don't have a solution, but maybe an idea. Boot them out of the WTO.
Their membership in the WTO guarantees them very small taxation on
all their exports. If they get booted then they can be taxed at a higher
rate with the benefits going to rebuild Ukraine.

Although, things have in Ukraine supposedly improved. You need something
to ensure that the taxes collected don't go directly to mink coats and boob
jobs for the mistresses of the Rada members.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 12:39:17 PM
Poland doesn't make fighter jets, so they want assurances from the
USA that the jets they give away will be replaced. I haven't found
anything anywhere about who pays for the replacement jets.

I have read reports that replacement jets won't arrive for a couple
years, 2024 or later. Also to be noted are what types of jets would
be given to Ukraine. This is not my expertise, but would think that
right now they could use fighter/bombers and close air support types
that have at least some stealth ability.

I will ask my son what he thinks about it.

If we are giving away planes, I am pretty sure that it would be in
the package that congress is currently putting together, the problem
is when you get politicians involved, they tend to screw it up, screw
around with it, pork it up, hold it up so they can push their green new
deal, etc. etc.



U.S. Congress negotiators nearing deal on Ukraine aid, government funding bill
http://www.reuters.com/world/us/democrats-aim-reset-domestic-legislative-agenda-after-biden-speech-2022-03-07/


White House wants $10 billion for Ukraine aid, $22.5 billion for more COVID help
http://www.virginiamercury.com/2022/03/03/white-house-wants-10-billion-for-ukraine-aid-22-5-billion-for-more-covid-help/



UK pledges another £80 million in aid to help Ukraine deal with humanitarian crisis
http://www.gov.uk/government/news/ukraine-uk-pledges-another-80million-in-aid-to-help-ukraine-deal-with-humanitarian-crisis
Giving planes in itself is not of much use as they will not be comparable with Ukrainian command and control systems.
There will be real difficulties in integrating off the shelf aircraft that are not compatible with those systems.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2022, 12:54:07 PM
Giving planes in itself is not of much use as they will not be comparable with Ukrainian command and control systems.
There will be real difficulties in integrating off the shelf aircraft that are not compatible with those systems.

I don't know all that is involved in integrating aircraft, other than installing
the proper IFF, (identification friend or foe) but Poland is talking about sending
MIG29's which is the majority of what the Ukrainian Air Force consists of.
Their pilots should be very familiar with the flying and fighting characteristics
of the plane. There could be a bunch of other stuff that I don't know about.

I am not an expert on this. My son is, but I haven't talked to him yet.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 07, 2022, 01:01:13 PM
Former USA National Security Advisor H.R.McMaster just been on Sky News saying NATO should go in now and enforce a no fly  zone over Ukraine,,,he said NATO will need to get involved eventually anyway,so do it now before more Ukrainians are killed in air strikes against them,


He also said NATO need to enforce a Marine-free zone too.


When asked about people quaking in fear about Putin's threat to use Nukes he said well he would wouldn't he,his economy is tanking,his military has proved to be only good for bombing civilians,so all he has left is Nukes..but people shouldn't be in fear of his threats and need to stand up to him,because if we don't, and Russia wins, the war WILL spread,



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 07, 2022, 01:14:28 PM
Giving planes in itself is not of much use as they will not be comparable with Ukrainian command and control systems.
There will be real difficulties in integrating off the shelf aircraft that are not compatible with those systems.

UA pilots would be familiar with, and qualified to fly the Polish MIGs.  M-16's or such would then be sent to Poland, along with training etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 07, 2022, 01:19:01 PM
UA pilots would be familiar with, and qualified to fly the Polish MIGs.  M-16's or such would then be sent to Poland, along with training etc.
They will be able to fly the planes, of course. Like I said, it’s the command and control with UKR systems that won’t be integrated.
Without those they might as well be flying blind.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 01:22:00 PM
First of all, the Russian supply lines are being severely pulverized. A whole column of fuel trucks was blown up today heading for Kyiv.
Without fuel their armour and supporting vehicles grind to a halt.

Their supply lines will be vulnerable and without supplies they will be quite vulnerable.

You bring up a good point about logistics.  It's been said that infantry wins battles, but logistics wins wars.

Russia's logistics supply chain is the railroad network.  From what I understand, as soon as Russia started invading, Ukraine blew up every single rail line coming into Ukraine from Russia and Belarus.  That halted the advance of the supply lines using rails, and requires using trucks to transport supplies farther.  (And supposedly, Russia is lacking in trucks, and trucks are not armored, which makes them easy to disable with rifles.)  Supposedly, Russia can only operate about 100 miles maximum in advance of their supply depot before they start running out of supplies.

Russia recently started camouflaging fuel trucks to look like regular supply trucks because they were being targeted so badly.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 01:28:59 PM
I don't know what to advise on this . . . as I don't want a surrender, but also want the killing to stop.

I do pray that if war stops, that USA and all other nations continue existing sanctions on Russia until Russia provides the funds to rebuild all the structures and infrastructure that has been destroyed by them in Ukraine.

What is to keep Ukraine from suing Russia in international court for damages?  I think there is a court in NY City that hears those cases.  Supposedly, about half of Russia's $630 billion has been frozen in other countries by sanctions. 

If Ukraine wins in court (and I don't see how they wouldn't) they can access those frozen, sanctioned funds.  That's $300 billion they could potentially get their hands on.  Suddenly, we're not talking about chump change anymore.  That's over $6500 for every man, woman, and child in Ukraine.  (and considering that the average net worth is like $2K...)

The bigger problem will be keeping Ukrainian government officials from trying to embezzle that $300 billion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 01:32:37 PM
UA pilots would be familiar with, and qualified to fly the Polish MIGs.  M-16's or such would then be sent to Poland, along with training etc.

Poland already has some F-16's.  From what I understand, the F-16's Poland has have older avionics.  The US uses newer avionics in our F-16's, and the question is if the US is willing to allow Poland access to our newer and higher technology, or if we will have to give them F-16's with the older technology.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2022, 01:38:36 PM
What is to keep Ukraine from suing Russia in international court for damages?  I think there is a court in NY City that hears those cases.  Supposedly, about half of Russia's $630 billion has been frozen in other countries by sanctions. 

If Ukraine wins in court (and I don't see how they wouldn't) they can access those frozen, sanctioned funds.  That's $300 billion they could potentially get their hands on.  Suddenly, we're not talking about chump change anymore.  That's over $6500 for every man, woman, and child in Ukraine.  (and considering that the average net worth is like $2K...)

The bigger problem will be keeping Ukrainian government officials from trying to embezzle that $300 billion.


Isn't most of that money the cash/assets of oligarchs, as opposed to the Russian government?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 02:14:28 PM

Isn't most of that money the cash/assets of oligarchs, as opposed to the Russian government?

No, the $630 billion is supposed to be Russia's foreign currency reserves.  About half of that was held in banks in other countries.  That $300 billion has been frozen.

Location of Russia's $630 Billion foreign currency reserves
China 17.7% (not sanctioned)
France 15.6%
Japan 12.8%
Germany 12.2%
USA 8.5%
BIS/IMF 6.4%
UK 5.8%
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-russian-central-bank-is-running-out-of-options/

Personally, I don't think Russia will ever see that $300 billion.  Or if they get it back, it will be in 50 years.  Look how long we held onto money we sanctioned from Iran back in 1979.  Is some still held, or did it all get given back to Iran a few years ago?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 02:16:30 PM
You bring up a good point about logistics.  It's been said that infantry wins battles, but logistics wins wars.

Russia's logistics supply chain is the railroad network.  From what I understand, as soon as Russia started invading, Ukraine blew up every single rail line coming into Ukraine from Russia and Belarus.  That halted the advance of the supply lines using rails, and requires using trucks to transport supplies farther.  (And supposedly, Russia is lacking in trucks, and trucks are not armored, which makes them easy to disable with rifles.)  Supposedly, Russia can only operate about 100 miles maximum in advance of their supply depot before they start running out of supplies.

Russia recently started camouflaging fuel trucks to look like regular supply trucks because they were being targeted so badly.
All is correct
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 02:21:54 PM
No, the $630 billion is supposed to be Russia's foreign currency reserves.  About half of that was held in banks in other countries.  That $300 billion has been frozen.

Location of Russia's $630 Billion foreign currency reserves
China 17.7% (not sanctioned)
France 15.6%
Japan 12.8%
Germany 12.2%
USA 8.5%
BIS/IMF 6.4%
UK 5.8%
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-russian-central-bank-is-running-out-of-options/ (http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-russian-central-bank-is-running-out-of-options/)

Personally, I don't think Russia will ever see that $300 billion.  Or if they get it back, it will be in 50 years.  Look how long we held onto money we sanctioned from Iran back in 1979.  Is some still held, or did it all get given back to Iran a few years ago?
I explain to you what they have just invented a few days ago.
Every currency earned in $ or euro for any Russian citizen living in Russia should be converted into roubles for 80% of the total amount.Is it not brilliant? 
 :ROFL:
So you understand why more and more people want to leave. And guess who is earning in $ or euros?
 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 02:25:19 PM
And according to google, the Ruble is currently trading at 139 rubles to the USD.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 02:25:28 PM

No, the demands are because internal Russian analysis is telling them they can't win in the long term.  Putin believed the Ukrainian population would capitulate, that his troops would just march in and take the country.  He never expected resistance.  That's why there is this "face saving" measure. 


I don't think Ukraine should agree to neutrality.  I think Ukraine should have good relations with Russia, but given everything that's happened since 2014, that will take at least a generation.


Russia has planted landmines in civilian escape corridors, shot fleeing civilians (women and children), dropped cluster bombs in civilian areas of Kharkiv, and lost control of at least one city they had taken.  They can't go to a "greater scale" unless they are willing to lose thousands of soldiers to do so.
This is what I have also explained.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 02:26:13 PM
And according to google, the Ruble is currently trading at 139 rubles to the USD.
In some Russian banks it could reach 159
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 07, 2022, 02:49:27 PM
No, the $630 billion is supposed to be Russia's foreign currency reserves.  About half of that was held in banks in other countries.  That $300 billion has been frozen.

Location of Russia's $630 Billion foreign currency reserves
China 17.7% (not sanctioned)
France 15.6%
Japan 12.8%
Germany 12.2%
USA 8.5%
BIS/IMF 6.4%
UK 5.8%
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-russian-central-bank-is-running-out-of-options/ (http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-russian-central-bank-is-running-out-of-options/)

Personally, I don't think Russia will ever see that $300 billion.  Or if they get it back, it will be in 50 years.  Look how long we held onto money we sanctioned from Iran back in 1979.  Is some still held, or did it all get given back to Iran a few years ago?
$300 billion, most of them could finance the reconstruction of Ukraine.
How can Russia lead winning negotiations with this money already seized, an economy that will soon collapse, and an incoming military defeat???

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2022, 04:19:27 PM
Mr Armchair General, there are several flaws in your plagiarised summary.
First of all, the Russian supply lines are being severely pulverized. A whole column of fuel trucks was blown up today heading for Kyiv.
Without fuel their armour and supporting vehicles grind to a halt.

So the Russians will not take the city without a fight.
Say in the long run they overrun the defending forces and take Kyiv along with other major population centres, then we will see a long war of attrition.
The Russians will control the major cities but there will be the vast swathes of country in between over which they will have no control. Their supply lines will be vulnerable and without supplies they will be quite vulnerable.
Partisan warfare at its best.

Carry on.

Look at what is happening to Mariupol Gaunty, they've got it surrounded and are bombing it. What do you think they are going to do with Kyiv? Odds on the same, surrounded it, halt armour outside the city surrounding it and bomb the hell out of it. A large city is going to run out of food quick, the Russians can sit there all day long, everyday. Once out of food people are going to want to give up the fight, even soldiers, they will see that it is hopeless and give up. At the present the only way out of the city is south, if I were there I would go south quickly while there is still a chance.

Tommorow, Zelensky is going to address the House of Commons by video link. Apparently it is going to be yet another attempt to rope us in to intervening militarily, No Fly Zones, etc. He will probably state that Kyiv is now surrounded by Russian forces and we are Kyiv's only hope, etc, etc. I just hope to god that MP's aren't moved by the moment and lose all sense and throw us into WWIII. That is what Zelensky wants, he doesn't care about us and will be happy to see us suffering on the end of missiles also. Had the people of Ukraine gone with a experienced politician rather than a TV Actor/Comedian they might not be where they are at the moment.

To my mind Zelensky would be better of agreeing to Russia's demands and saving their citizens more pointless suffering. Better to get it over with quickly that way than see everything smashed to bits and many more lives lost. Ukraine isn't going to win this one, they're allowing their cities to becomes surrounded and choked the life out off. If Ukraine can't keep their supply lines open its pretty much it for them.

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-president-volodymyr-zelenskyy-to-make-historic-address-to-british-mps-tomorrow-12560206
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 04:26:09 PM
$300 billion, most of them could finance the reconstruction of Ukraine.
How can Russia lead winning negotiations with this money already seized, an economy that will soon collapse, and an incoming military defeat???

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

It is no certainty that Russia faces an oncoming military defeat. Yes, they have had some setbacks, but they could turn things around if they really wanted to.

The Ukrainians are already running out of food and water in some cities, like Mariupol.  As soon as the Russians take control of the train lines out of Kyiv (or bomb them) the flow of supplies coming into Kyiv are going to be reduced greatly.

Keep in mind the Russians killed 4.5 million Ukrainians during the Holodomor.  Loss of life will not bother them.  I wouldn't put it past the Russians to start using biological or chemical weapons in Ukraine.  (What do they have to lose?)

Their economy is facing some setbacks, but it won't fall apart completely as long as they can still sell oil and gas, and China remains a trading partner.  The elites are still going to live large, which is all that really matters to them.  I suspect they would rather see the Russian populace living in huts again like peasants before the elites will give up power.

The seized money doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things.  It has a $1.5 trillion GDP.  That's 20% of GDP...2 months production.  (Yes, it might hurt if 2 months salary was taken from your bank account, but you would still survive.)  They sell $500 million in oil and gas every day.  In less than 2 years, they can replace the $300 billion that was frozen.

Ukraine's GDP was $150 billion a year.  In 2 years, it will produce $300 billion in goods and services.

If Russia subjugates Ukraine...in 10 years, will the sanctions remain?  How about 20 years?  Russia is in this for the long haul.  Every year, there are more people on this planet.  Every year, they need more oil and gas and resources that Russia has.

Do you think that Russia will end up a hermit kingdom like North Korea?  The rest of the world wants their resources too much.

The real question is, how badly does Russia want Ukraine?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 07, 2022, 04:27:31 PM

No, the demands are because internal Russian analysis is telling them they can't win in the long term.  Putin believed the Ukrainian population would capitulate, that his troops would just march in and take the country.  He never expected resistance.  That's why there is this "face saving" measure. 


I don't think Ukraine should agree to neutrality.  I think Ukraine should have good relations with Russia, but given everything that's happened since 2014, that will take at least a generation.


Russia has planted landmines in civilian escape corridors, shot fleeing civilians (women and children), dropped cluster bombs in civilian areas of Kharkiv, and lost control of at least one city they had taken.  They can't go to a "greater scale" unless they are willing to lose thousands of soldiers to do so.

The rhetoric coming from Russian leadership doesn't indicate they are budging and will in fact go much further.  It seems they are willing to shut off nord steam 1, as they state they have other buyers.   They state oil will be $300 a barrel or more.   It would seem they will suffer, and they will make their enemies suffer with them to the extent they can.  It seems to be in their view, that there will be no bridge too far when it comes to their objectives in Ukraine.   

I don't think they are going to be winning much either way for now.   

Russia warns West of $300 per barrel oil, cuts to EU gas supply


Western countries could face oil prices of over $300 per barrel and the possible closure of the main Russia-Germany gas pipeline if governments follow through on threats to cut energy supplies from Russia, a senior minister said on Monday......

.....“If you want to reject energy supplies from Russia, go ahead. We are ready for it. We know where we could redirect the volumes to.”

Novak said Russia, which supplies 40 percent of Europe's gas, was fulfilling its obligations in full but that it would be entirely within its rights to retaliate against the European Union after Germany last month froze the certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.....


http://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/03/08/Russia-warns-West-of-300-per-barrel-oil-cuts-to-EU-gas-supply    (http://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/03/08/Russia-warns-West-of-300-per-barrel-oil-cuts-to-EU-gas-supply)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 04:31:27 PM
Look at what is happening to Mariupol Gaunty, they've got it surrounded and are bombing it. What do you think they are going to do with Kyiv? Odds on the same, surrounded it, halt armour outside the city surrounding it and bomb the hell out of it. A large city is going to run out of food quick, the Russians can sit there all day long, everyday. Once out of food people are going to want to give up the fight, even soldiers, they will see that it is hopeless and give up. At the present the only way out of the city is south, if I were there I would go south quickly while there is still a chance.

Not everyone is a coward Trench.  You might want to study history.
How long was the Battle of Stalingrad?  Or the siege of Leningrad?
Sarajevo was under siege for about 4 years, with daily bombings.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2022, 06:49:45 PM
Keep in mind the Russians killed 4.5 million Ukrainians during the Holodomor.  Loss of life will not bother them.  I wouldn't put it past the Russians to start using biological or chemical weapons in Ukraine.  (What do they have to lose?)

I don't disagree that loss of life won't bother them - look at what they did in Syria.  However, it wasn't "Russians" who starved Ukrainians.  It was Soviets


The rhetoric coming from Russian leadership doesn't indicate they are budging and will in fact go much further.  It seems they are willing to shut off nord steam 1, as they state they have other buyers.   They state oil will be $300 a barrel or more.   It would seem they will suffer, and they will make their enemies suffer with them to the extent they can.  It seems to be in their view, that there will be no bridge too far when it comes to their objectives in Ukraine.   

I don't think they are going to be winning much either way for now.   

Russia warns West of $300 per barrel oil, cuts to EU gas supply


Western countries could face oil prices of over $300 per barrel and the possible closure of the main Russia-Germany gas pipeline if governments follow through on threats to cut energy supplies from Russia, a senior minister said on Monday......

.....“If you want to reject energy supplies from Russia, go ahead. We are ready for it. We know where we could redirect the volumes to.”

Novak said Russia, which supplies 40 percent of Europe's gas, was fulfilling its obligations in full but that it would be entirely within its rights to retaliate against the European Union after Germany last month froze the certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.....


http://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/03/08/Russia-warns-West-of-300-per-barrel-oil-cuts-to-EU-gas-supply    (http://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/03/08/Russia-warns-West-of-300-per-barrel-oil-cuts-to-EU-gas-supply)

Fathertime! 

Thanks to milder whether and liquified gas from the US, EU stocks will soon be replenished.  Canada has over 563 Tcf of natural gas, and 165.4 billion barrels of oil.  That's just one country. 

Prices for natural gas were down $4 per gigajoule today.  Oil prices may rise initially, partly because there was so little investment from the collapse in 2014 to now, but that will change quickly.

The Telegraph has a good article on this.  I can share this token.

http://archive.ph/ExYGg (http://archive.ph/ExYGg)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 07:49:12 PM
I don't disagree that loss of life won't bother them - look at what they did in Syria.  However, it wasn't "Russians" who starved Ukrainians.  It was Soviets

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  For all intents and purposes, I consider Russians and Soviets to be basically the same thing.  (Russia assumed the position of the Soviets in the UN.  Same people.  Same mentality.  They just rebranded themselves with a different name.)  It's like arguing the difference between hogs and pigs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 07, 2022, 07:53:54 PM
The media is reporting that the Ukrainians killed another Russian general near Kharkiv.  Major General Vitaly Gerasimov.

Tomorrow is Women's Day.  And Russia will have to break it to his mother and wife that he got killed.

With tomorrow being Women's Day, I wonder how much backlash and public outcry there will be in Russia for the women who get killed in Ukraine on Woman's Day.  That's a heck of a Woman's Day gift from Russia...killing Ukrainian women.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 07, 2022, 08:35:16 PM
http://youtu.be/_WGcfkqzUI4

http://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w

It would seem most of Russia's "shock & awe" turned out to be " aw shucks.....we better attack apt. buildings, women, and children"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 07, 2022, 08:59:09 PM
http://youtu.be/Hob1nbP_UKM

NATO allies have plenty of surface-to-air (sam) weapons to furnish Ukraine and possibly Moldova if they want. (using a lend-lease program simalar to what was used in WW2) Such an action would probably keep Russian pilots shaking in thier panties on Ukrainian missions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 08, 2022, 12:12:10 AM
IIRC fighters would be classified as offensive weapons.  AFAIK, most if not all weapons provided to UA are defensive.
It would be defensive if it doesn't fly into enemy space.
However... who would fly this aircraft? Ukrainian military pilots could fly MIGs, but few [I imagine] can operate western fighters.
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 08, 2022, 12:21:05 AM
  Once out of food people are going to want to give up the fight.... the Russians can sit there all day long, everyday. 
The Russians have to eat too don't they?  Let's hope they get hungry and go home.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2022, 03:18:31 AM
I don't disagree that loss of life won't bother them - look at what they did in Syria.  However, it wasn't "Russians" who starved Ukrainians.  It was Soviets


Thanks to milder whether and liquified gas from the US, EU stocks will soon be replenished.  Canada has over 563 Tcf of natural gas, and 165.4 billion barrels of oil.  That's just one country. 

Prices for natural gas were down $4 per gigajoule today.  Oil prices may rise initially, partly because there was so little investment from the collapse in 2014 to now, but that will change quickly.

The Telegraph has a good article on this.  I can share this token.

http://archive.ph/ExYGg (http://archive.ph/ExYGg)

I read it, wow that's huge.  :P
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 08, 2022, 05:43:45 AM
Shell has announced it's no longer buying Oil or Gas from Russia and is closing all it's petrol stations in Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2022, 08:33:02 AM
No Russian oil here in the states is going to raise prices on everything.    We shall see what the public thinks of all of this once all the price increases start to take hold.   I think it is going to upset the entire economy. 

There are some whispers already about 'secondary sanctions'.  Sanctions on nations that decide to buy Russian oil.   We (The US) should not be able to cause suffering & dictate who other nations buy oil from; it isn't our choice.     I don't think the rest of the world will listen.      Venezuela, and Iran are large oil producers subjected to US hegemony.     We can start drilling for our own oil once again, if we can find the wherewithal to do that.   

Looking at Russia's current demands, if that is what they were bringing to the table before the battle began, they weren't entirely unreasonable, especially given the potential worldwide consequence.  If you look at people across the globe (Not just Europe and US) there is a luke warm reaction to this event.  Because of that, I don't think we will be able to 'choke Russia out'. 

Oil gains on expectations U.S. will ban Russian crude imports

.....Oil prices rose on Tuesday, with Brent surging past $129 a barrel on expectations that the United States will announce a formal ban on Russian oil imports, stoking supply concerns.....

....."Assuming the U.S. does not impose any secondary sanctions, thereby forcing other countries likewise to halt their Russian oil imports, we believe that the impact of any unilateral U.S. move would be limited," Commerzbank analyst Carsten Fritsch said.....


 http://www.reuters.com/business/oil-see-saws-near-14-yr-highs-us-weighs-russia-oil-embargo-2022-03-08/  (http://www.reuters.com/business/oil-see-saws-near-14-yr-highs-us-weighs-russia-oil-embargo-2022-03-08/)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 08, 2022, 09:41:44 AM
Oil AND Gas imports from Russia now banned by the USA.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 10:06:48 AM
Saw on news last night a discussion between Kurt Volker and a retired General who had previously been head of NATO forces.

Kurt said from a purely humanitarian viewpoint we must establish the No-Fly zone.  He said we would make it clear that western planes would not attack Russian planes unless first attacked, and would not attack Russian forces on the ground unless first attacked.

Kurt said after the German massacres of civilians in WW2, we (the west) said it would never be allowed to repeat.

The General made the standard argument that the result of the No-Fly zone would be to widen the war to other countries.

But Kurt countered that, if Putin gets his way in Ukraine, he will later expand the war to other countries anyway.  First maybe to non-NATO countries like Moldova and Finland.

I was not able to see the interview with General McMaster, who also is a proponent of the No-Fly zone, as I didn't agree to the cookie request.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 08, 2022, 10:17:42 AM
ML,

One issue is that UA fighters may shoot down the wrong planes, or get blamed if RU soldiers do.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 08, 2022, 10:26:11 AM
Saw on news last night a discussion between Kurt Volker and a retired General who had previously been head of NATO forces.

Kurt said from a purely humanitarian viewpoint we must establish the No-Fly zone.  He said we would make it clear that western planes would not attack Russian planes unless first attacked, and would not attack Russian forces on the ground unless first attacked.

Kurt said after the German massacres of civilians in WW2, we (the west) said it would never be allowed to repeat.

The General made the standard argument that the result of the No-Fly zone would be to widen the war to other countries.

But Kurt countered that, if Putin gets his way in Ukraine, he will later expand the war to other countries anyway.  First maybe to non-NATO countries like Moldova and Finland.

I was not able to see the interview with General McMaster, who also is a proponent of the No-Fly zone, as I didn't agree to the cookie request.


I saw the interview General McMaster did with Sky News and posted about it in post 984 in this very thread.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2022, 10:35:49 AM


Kurt said after the German massacres of civilians in WW2, we (the west) said it would never be allowed to repeat.
 
On CNN yesterday, I read those 400 civilians had been killed.   People here are stating that Russia is bombing apartment buildings (Presumably loaded with harmless civilians) and shooting people exiting through humanitarian corridors.       It would seem that something is either off with the numbers either from CNN or by accounts I read.  Given the vast operation, 400 dead isn't as much as I would have expected.    2 million people have already exited Ukraine, and at the rate of the flow it won't be long before most everybody that wants to leave will have left.   It would seem that may be one of Russia's goals.   

Normally I would say a No Fly Zone is a bridge way too far for the US to take but given the lengths the US has already taken I wouldn't be so sure it isn't a serious consideration now.  While that may be a bluff, the US may be thinking of getting into Russian heads with this posturing (To Bring Russia to the Bargaining Table in a slightly weaker position) I think a no-fly zone would be a Russian red line that one crossed will escalate the crisis into something much larger.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 10:41:42 AM
ML,

One issue is that UA fighters may shoot down the wrong planes, or get blamed if RU soldiers do.

Of course.  And we can be sure that even if Russia shoots down the planes, they will deny and lie as is their norm.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 10:43:22 AM

I saw the interview General McMaster did with Sky News and posted about it in post 984 in this very thread.

Yes, I saw your post, so thanks for that.
However, as I said, I wasn't able to view as I refused to agree to the cookie request.  That is my standard procedure.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 10:51:09 AM
I think a no-fly zone would be a Russian red line that one crossed will escalate the crisis into something much larger.

Of course, and I already spoke to that issue by telling the words and reasoning of Kurt Volker.

So best to not just keep repeating this refrain (escalate) and instead address the logic stated by Kurt.

i.e. But Kurt countered that, if Putin gets his way in Ukraine, he will later expand the war to other countries anyway.  First maybe to non-NATO countries like Moldova and Finland.

I posted earlier that after Ukraine is sacrificed, then the west will come to the aid of Finland with direct military offensive involvement when Russia attacks.

It will take several generations before the western guilt over that will be absolved.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 08, 2022, 10:53:37 AM
On cookies - you can clear your online history and cached files.  This will delete cookies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 11:23:42 AM
On cookies - you can clear your online history and cached files.  This will delete cookies.

Yes, but we don't want to clear all cookies.  They are useful in logging into websites, such as this one, without having to remember handles and passwords.

I try to limit stored cookies that I don't want to save by not agreeing to them.  Of course, many sites put their cookies on our computers without asking.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2022, 11:58:57 AM
i.e. But Kurt countered that, if Putin gets his way in Ukraine, he will later expand the war to other countries anyway.  First maybe to non-NATO countries like Moldova and Finland.

I posted earlier that after Ukraine is sacrificed, then the west will come to the aid of Finland with direct military offensive involvement when Russia attacks.
Why would Russia decide to try take more territory after this costly mess...?  But to be sure, there should be serious armed forces on all the other bordering countries.  Russia could make arguments regarding Ukraine, but none of those justifications would ring correct for a nation like Finland.  I think at that point the rest of the world would turn and see that as unjust and all of humanity would turn against Russia, probably even the Russians themselves.   
Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2022, 12:00:19 PM
However, as I said, I wasn't able to view as I refused to agree to the cookie request.  That is my standard procedure.
Accept their little cookie, it isn't poisonous.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 08, 2022, 12:20:34 PM
Poland has agreed to exchange their MIG 29's for fighter jets from the USA.


The Polish MIG 29's are going to a US Air base in Germany,presumably for the Ukrainian pilots to fly them to Ukraine from there.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 08, 2022, 01:09:57 PM
Poland has agreed to exchange their MIG 29's for fighter jets from the USA.


The Polish MIG 29's are going to a US Air base in Germany,presumably for the Ukrainian pilots to fly them to Ukraine from there.

A significant move. The Ukrainian Air Force had about 37 MiG-29's in active duty when the unprovoked attack began. Last count of Polish MiG-29's was 21 (or 23, depending on the source). Ukraine also flies about 60 Sukhoi attack aircraft. The addition of 20 new attack aircraft will add significant capability even though the 29's are Soviet-era dating back to the USSR. The basing decisions are interesting as well. Poland to Germany to Ukraine would mean that Russia will be faced with having to blame Poland for supplying the jets, Germany for hosting the transfer, and of course, the US for agreeing to backfill Poland with newer F-16's.

The greatest danger, IMO, is whether Putin becomes so unhinged he escalates into nukes. It's difficult to see Russia using tactical nukes in Ukraine. The theater offers no advantage by using nukes and the world reaction once that line is crossed will be overwhelming.


The ancient Chinese curse is upon us. We do indeed live in interesting times.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 08, 2022, 01:27:42 PM
Interesting sidebar on the MiG-29 transfer from Poland to US to Ukraine. Poland urged all other NATO countries flying MiG-29s to provide them for Ukraine's use. Zelenskyy said in a press conference a few days ago they knew which countries have the aircraft and have reached out to all of them. It's difficult to get an exact count since some of them may be in mothballs but able to be returned to active flight quite quickly. Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria may all have suitable aircraft.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 08, 2022, 01:55:15 PM
Interesting sidebar on the MiG-29 transfer from Poland to US to Ukraine. Poland urged all other NATO countries flying MiG-29s to provide them for Ukraine's use. Zelenskyy said in a press conference a few days ago they knew which countries have the aircraft and have reached out to all of them. It's difficult to get an exact count since some of them may be in mothballs but able to be returned to active flight quite quickly. Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria may all have suitable aircraft.

I heard the number of 70 available aircrafts (MIG29 & SU25/SU27) is in service in the surrounding countrys
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 08, 2022, 02:03:44 PM
The basing decisions are interesting as well. Poland to Germany to Ukraine would mean that Russia will be faced with having to blame Poland for supplying the jets, Germany for hosting the transfer, and of course, the US for agreeing to backfill Poland with newer F-16's.

Germany isn't hosting the transfer.  The only thing Germany is doing is allowing the jets to fly over their country.  The jets come from Poland, and are given to the US at the Ramstein US Air Base.  (Technically, that's US soil, not German.)  Then, the Ukrainian pilots fly the jets from the US Ramstein air base back to Ukraine.

Poland is just handing over the planes to the US government for the US to dispose of, so Russia can't say they gave jets to Ukraine.
It's happening at the US Air Base, so technically Germany isn't involved in hosting the transfer.

All the liability for giving the Mig-29's to the Ukrainians is on the US.

http://news.yahoo.com/poland-ready-place-mig-29-191348949.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 04:08:14 PM
Accept their little cookie, it isn't poisonous.   

Those who don't understand that cookies and other tracking devices can lead to harm are very naive.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2022, 04:23:36 PM
A significant move. The Ukrainian Air Force had about 37 MiG-29's in active duty when the unprovoked attack began. Last count of Polish MiG-29's was 21 (or 23, depending on the source). Ukraine also flies about 60 Sukhoi attack aircraft. The addition of 20 new attack aircraft will add significant capability even though the 29's are Soviet-era dating back to the USSR. The basing decisions are interesting as well. Poland to Germany to Ukraine would mean that Russia will be faced with having to blame Poland for supplying the jets, Germany for hosting the transfer, and of course, the US for agreeing to backfill Poland with newer F-16's.

The greatest danger, IMO, is whether Putin becomes so unhinged he escalates into nukes. It's difficult to see Russia using tactical nukes in Ukraine. The theater offers no advantage by using nukes and the world reaction once that line is crossed will be overwhelming.


The ancient Chinese curse is upon us. We do indeed live in interesting times.
This is why NATO forces shouldn't cross the border, no-fly zone should be set up.
Zelenski is constantly pushing all other countries to be militarily involved in the struggle. He has spent his time talking about integratingNATO and EU.
IMHO it's a big political mistake, you cannot push the bear in the corner every second. He could nuke bite you. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 08, 2022, 04:56:41 PM
The greatest danger, IMO, is whether Putin becomes so unhinged he escalates into nukes. It's difficult to see Russia using tactical nukes in Ukraine.
It's not Putin who is at risk of becoming unhinged, it is Western leaders who are already unhinged.

Russia has superior missile technology, both defensive (S-500 systems) and offensive (operational hypersonic missiles, including launch at sea and obviously nuclear capability). De-escalation and diplomacy should be the priority. Zelensky has already changed his tune, things probably aren't going as well as reported in the West.

http://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership?ref=tw

This is why NATO forces shouldn't cross the border, no-fly zone should be set up.
Zelenski is constantly pushing all other countries to be militarily involved in the struggle. He has spent his time talking about integratingNATO and EU.
IMHO it's a big political mistake, you cannot push the bear in the corner every second. He could nuke bite you.
A "no fly zone" is aerial combat. It's entry into the conflict. The EU/NATO are nuts. They are facing self-inflicted economic collapse and potential hot war escalating into nuclear war. An embargo is a bellicose act, if not an act of war.

The USA is effectively killing the petrodollar. Madness. Saudis told Biden to sod off when asked to pump more oil. Now the administration is begging to Maduro and trying to cut a deal with Iran. All the while Russia's loss of volume of sales will be offset somewhat by increased margin due to skyrocketing prices. China, India and others will continue to buy oil from Russia. Absolute cluster fuck.

China will probably enter a recession but will be the big beneficiary of all of this. The USA's influence in the world will wane. Europe is done. And still the specter of nuclear war remains.

Good buying opportunities in Russia IMO if you're willing to live with capital controls. USD/RUB went from 74 to 141 (now at 128). Russian stocks hammered, commodity producers are still required. Unsure if real estate prices have increased in RUB yet. Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are reportedly scooping up bargains and the Chinese are looking to do the same.

Russian citizens are already feeling the pain. Those in the West will too soon enough.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2022, 05:51:30 PM
Those on here stating that Putin/Russia will invade Finland I believe are mistaken, just look at this map:

http://maproom.net/shop/eu-map/

While Finland isn't a member of NATO it is a member of the EU, so is Sweden. So the EU policy of an attack on one member state by an outside force is deemed an attack on all member states comes into play. That means Russia has potentially every army in the EU on their case plus France has Nukes. The EU will have no choice but to bring all the armies of its member states to bear in a defensive mission against Russian aggression.

Now while Finland isn't a member of NATO, many other members of the EU are and they will likely petition NATO to get involved, particularly the NATO members in Eastern Europe. That means both the UK & US etc getting involved as well, both with Nukes also.

So Russia basically isn't going to attack Finland, Finland in any case now have time to improve its military while Russia gets run down attacking Ukraine. Russia will most likely attack Georgia next, it's an easy target for them and like Ukraine has disputed territory to use as an excuse for an attack. After that Putin may go after incorporating the Stand more into Russia, there quite a lot of land there to keep him busy. Dealing with all of that will likely take many years and a lot of Putin's attention. Putin is an old man now so he's only got so many years left. All the while of course sanctions running the Russian economy down. So I very much doubt Russia will take on NATO. After all what this escapade ha shown is that Russia are having difficulties with a nation with military like Ukraine. Against EU/NATO it would be a unwinnable battle for Russia fullstop, not to say EU/NATO would win either it would basically be blasting each other in mass destruction for no gain.

Many hawks out there unfortunately trying to talk countries into war with the argument that we would be next. They are so desperate to satisfy their appetite for war that they don't realise what they are suggesting is playing with fire. They are idiots arguing that we should basically take a gamble and back up Ukraine militarily and hope they don't fire Nukes at some point and we both end up in MAD. They are happy that we get dragged into a war with Russia any which possible way, by no fly zones, direct military intervention whatever they can think off. We need to keep ignoring these over zealous idiots in the west and keep the hell out of it. If Russia win, which I think they will, then they are left with the problem of what to do with Ukraine, whatever they do I can't see them doing well out of Ukraine. I say leave them to tread on their own feet, that she the bes to long term fix to this conflict I believe. Sanctions are doing a great job and I think that is the way ahead for us getting some leverage over this situation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2022, 05:57:57 PM
Apparently a cold snap on the way starting later today it seems, could help Ukrainians though possibly all and everyone may suffer out there:

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-convoy-putin-1685806

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10588875/Ukraine-war-Russian-advance-slows-significantly-children-hurt-strikes.html


Ukrainians digging in, in and around Kyiv:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60671329

A real sense that it's all reaching a climax now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 08, 2022, 06:06:41 PM
It's  Putin who is  unhinged,

Russia has superior missile technology, both defensive (S-500 systems) and offensive (operational hypersonic missiles, including launch at sea and obviously nuclear capability). De-escalation and diplomacy should be the priority. Zelensky has already changed his tune, things probably aren't going as well as reported in the West.

http://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership?ref=tw (http://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership?ref=tw)
A "no fly zone" is aerial combat. It's entry into the conflict. Russia is nuts. They are facing self-inflicted economic collapse and potential hot war escalating into nuclear war.

The USA is effectively killing the petrodollar. Madness. Saudis told Biden to sod off when asked to pump more oil. Now the administration is begging to Maduro and trying to cut a deal with Iran. All the while Russia's loss of volume of sales will be offset somewhat by increased margin due to skyrocketing prices. China, India and others will continue to buy oil from Russia. Absolute cluster fuck.

China will probably enter a recession but will be the big beneficiary of all of this. The USA's influence in the world will wane. Europe is done. And still the specter of nuclear war remains.

Good buying opportunities in Russia IMO if you're willing to live with capital controls. USD/RUB went from 74 to 141 (now at 128). Russian stocks hammered, commodity producers are still required. Unsure if real estate prices have increased in RUB yet. Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are reportedly scooping up bargains and the Chinese are looking to do the same.

Russian citizens are already feeling the pain. Those in the West will too soon enough.


There..fixed that for you.


Last time i looked it was Russia who invaded Ukraine and started a war.


By the way USA...UK...France have Nukes too..


If the unhinged despot Mad Vlad starts a Nuclear war he's pressing a self-destruct button.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 08, 2022, 06:57:38 PM
General Magomed Tushaev died when his Chechen special forces column was obliterated near Hostomel, north-east of the city.

Warlord Vladimir Zhonga is also among the dead. Zhonga led the Sparta Battalion, a Neo-Nazi military unit that boasted the backing of the Kremlin.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/nine-russian-generals-killed-war-26417757     8 March 2022
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 08, 2022, 07:13:54 PM

There..fixed that for you.


Last time i looked it was Russia who invaded Ukraine and started a war.


By the way USA...UK...France have Nukes too..


If the unhinged despot Mad Vlad starts a Nuclear war he's pressing a self-destruct button.
Reality check.

This conflict is an escalation of a civil war largely stemming from a US-backed coup in Ukraine eight years ago. Prior to recent events there were 13,000+ civilian deaths and millions of refugees.

Ukraine was de facto turning into a NATO member, wanted NATO membership, made comments about acquiring nuclear weapons, and has official government policy of taking Crimea by force. In addition, the US and UK have both provoked Russia by nearing or entering their territorial waters last year. This conflict wasn't 'unprovoked'.

Russia has hypersonic weapons that are unstoppable by current western defensive systems. Russia has the world's best defensive missile systems. Their older S-300 system proved to be effective in Syria: http://thesaker.is/u-s-u-k-france-conduct-massive-missile-strike-on-syria-details/

If Russia is pushed hard enough it may let the nukes fly. Not because Putin is unhinged but because the balance of probabilities heavily favors striking western countries given that it has been backed into a corner. De-escalation is absolutely necessary ASAP.

The Russian government's actions are certainly questionable but also rational.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 08, 2022, 07:50:56 PM

While Finland isn't a member of NATO it is a member of the EU, so is Sweden. So the EU policy of an attack on one member state by an outside force is deemed an attack on all member states comes into play. That means Russia has potentially every army in the EU on their case plus France has Nukes. The EU will have no choice but to bring all the armies of its member states to bear in a defensive mission against Russian aggression.

Now while Finland isn't a member of NATO, many other members of the EU are and they will likely petition NATO to get involved, particularly the NATO members in Eastern Europe. That means both the UK & US etc getting involved as well, both with Nukes also.

Your assessment is deeply flawed.  For starters, the EU is a joke.  It's a political and economic alliance.  The military defense alliance is a joke.

Only 2 countries in the EU have power projection capabilities.  Italy and France, and Italy is a financial basketcase still.  France is the only country in the EU with nukes.  Italy can't afford to go to war, and it's questionable if France could afford much of a war.  What you really have are a bunch of cheerleader countries who are threatening to defend all the other cheerleaders with their pom poms.

NATO is the real military defense alliance, and that is because of the USA.  Without the USA, NATO would be toothless like the EU.

Quote
After all what this escapade ha shown is that Russia are having difficulties with a nation with military like Ukraine.  Against EU/NATO it would be a unwinnable battle for Russia fullstop, not to say EU/NATO would win either it would basically be blasting each other in mass destruction for no gain.

It is not Ukraine's military that is causing them the most problems.  It is their own logistics problems.  Russian logistics are based upon railroad supply.  They have a hard time advancing more than 100 miles in front of their supply depot.

Attacking Finland would not trigger NATO involvement.  (NATO countries might sanction, but it is doubtful NATO would get involved, just like NATO isn't getting involved now in Ukraine.)  It would trigger EU defense, but Russia could quickly take a good portion of the country before the EU military could mobilize.  If/when the EU did mobilize, then Russia could agree to a ceasefire, at which time they would get to keep the ground they had already taken. 

So the real question is, how much ground could Russia gain before the EU military alliance could mobilize?  How much blood and treasure will they lose int he operation? How much in sanctions would they have to pay?  That is the calculation they have to compute.

In the case of Ukraine, they thought they could do a blitzkreig on the eastern and southern parts of the country.  They thought Ukraine would capitulate and they could take the vast part of the country before anyone knew what happened.  If any of Ukraine remained, it would be a small, weak, landlocked area in the west of Ukraine, and Lviv would likely be the new capital.  (Supposedly, Russia had offered to split Ukraine with Poland a few years ago.)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 08, 2022, 08:00:05 PM
The last time they  false flagged
and  attacked Finland dint go so well.
All appearances now point to similar outcome if they trued again.

Russia has the shear numbers to obliterate Ukraine.
That's not what they want.
However playing this  current ground game may cost them a lot more thsn they planed to pay for their objective.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 08, 2022, 08:04:57 PM
Reality check.

This conflict is an escalation of a civil war largely stemming from a US-backed coup in Ukraine eight years ago. Prior to recent events there were 13,000+ civilian deaths and millions of refugees.

Ukraine was de facto turning into a NATO member, wanted NATO membership, made comments about acquiring nuclear weapons, and has official government policy of taking Crimea by force. In addition, the US and UK have both provoked Russia by nearing or entering their territorial waters last year. This conflict wasn't 'unprovoked'.

Russia has hypersonic weapons that are unstoppable by current western defensive systems. Russia has the world's best defensive missile systems. Their older S-300 system proved to be effective in Syria: http://thesaker.is/u-s-u-k-france-conduct-massive-missile-strike-on-syria-details/ (http://thesaker.is/u-s-u-k-france-conduct-massive-missile-strike-on-syria-details/)

If Russia is pushed hard enough it may let the nukes fly. Not because Putin is unhinged but because the balance of probabilities heavily favors striking western countries given that it has been backed into a corner. De-escalation is absolutely necessary ASAP.

The Russian government's actions are certainly questionable but also rational.

Oh, please.  There was no "US backed coup" in Ukraine.  The US came into Ukraine very late in the game in 2014.

The protests against Yanukovych started because he refused to sign an association agreement with the EU - something a majority of Ukrainians, particularly young Ukrainians, wanted.  They see their future as westward, not eastward looking, thanks to the Putin kleptocracy.  The Putinistas just showed Ukraine what their future would be if they turned eastward - the same corruption absent human rights and democracy. 

Ukraine was not turning into a de facto NATO member.  NATO membership was never on the table, and I doubt strongly that NATO was an issue in this invasion.  This was about democracy, and a longing for a totalitarian past that can't be recreated, not NATO.  If Russia has any espionage capabilities, it knows NATO membership was never going to happen.

As for oil, Russia currently supplies about 7% of the world's oil.  Oil is at low capacity right now thanks to the collapse in 2014 and low supplies since - both market forces and COVID.  That meant that as COVID died down, capacity needed to increase to levels not seen in over half a decade, so supplies were already tight.  In the very short term, prices will increase, but overall, whether Iran and Venezuela come in line or not, oil prices will come down. 

Russia can't replace EU markets easily.  There is only so much oil China needs, and getting Russian oil to India is difficult.  Refiners there are already asking that both Russian and Kazakh oil be sold on a delivered basis, as refiners are having trouble finding financing, insurance, and tankers. 

As for buying Russian stock - sure, do so for a long term hold.  I don't think sanctions will go away quickly.  Morally, it's also akin to trading with Germany in October 1939 and beyond.

How, exactly, was Russia backed into a corner?  It wasn't forced to invade a sovereign nation to reestablish a "ruski mir".  It was in no mortal danger from Ukraine, militarily or economically.  By the time political ideas had any effect within Russia, Putin and his geriatric cabinet would have been long dead, or subsisting on toothless foods like kasha.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 08, 2022, 08:07:26 PM
Oh, and the Saudis have not said no.  They just want a number of outrageous (IMHO) preconditions met before they will come to the table.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2022, 08:22:40 PM
It's not Putin who is at risk of becoming unhinged, it is Western leaders who are already unhinged.

Russia's dick was already in the dirt, and now we *The US* have go ahead and kick ourselves in the balls as well.   Within 1 month we will start to feel it here in the states.  Gasoline prices have changed everybody's attitude I come across.  Taking the earlier measures, we did was ok, but suddenly banning Russian oil, talk of no fly zones, trying to use NATO countries to help backdoor get involved are all bad moves...Seems clear now, Russia will take Ukraine regardless of the cost, it is only a question of how much destruction, and death at the expense of Ukraine it will take.

If Russia is pushed hard enough it may let the nukes fly. Not because Putin is unhinged but because the balance of probabilities heavily favors striking western countries given that it has been backed into a corner. De-escalation is absolutely necessary ASAP.
 
 
Some people have tried to chastise me for bringing up Nuclear weapons last week.  Pretending as though it isn't a real Russian option isn't going to change the reality that it is.  The ugly event of war in the age of nuclear weapons isn't to rub snouts in the dirt.  Always leave outs for nations like Russia, China, and USA.  In this case we are close to breaking the unwritten rules.  Russia has made an aggressive move and are paying dearly for it.  Leaving it at that is the best we will be able to do. 

  Zelensky has already changed his tune, things probably aren't going as well as reported in the West.
Earlier today Zelensky sounded like he was ready to go down with the ship.  With that attitude, Russia will try to make that happen.  Look at happened to Khadaffy, or Saddam Hussein, when the US was involved. Tried it with Assad for months but failed on that one .   



The USA is effectively killing the petrodollar. Madness. Saudis told Biden to sod off when asked to pump more oil. Now the administration is begging to Maduro and trying to cut a deal with Iran. All the while Russia's loss of volume of sales will be offset somewhat by increased margin due to skyrocketing prices. China, India and others will continue to buy oil from Russia. Absolute cluster fuck.
Unreal regarding the petrodollar.  Our way of life is in rather immediate jeopardy.  With our history, Iran, Venezuela, China India, nobody is going to try to soften the blow.  We are sticking our neck out there a bit for sure.     

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2022, 08:23:16 PM
Your assessment is deeply flawed.  For starters, the EU is a joke.  It's a political and economic alliance.  The military defense alliance is a joke.

Only 2 countries in the EU have power projection capabilities.  Italy and France, and Italy is a financial basketcase still.  France is the only country in the EU with nukes.  Italy can't afford to go to war, and it's questionable if France could afford much of a war.  What you really have are a bunch of cheerleader countries who are threatening to defend all the other cheerleaders with their pom poms.

NATO is the real military defense alliance, and that is because of the USA.  Without the USA, NATO would be toothless like the EU.

It is not Ukraine's military that is causing them the most problems.  It is their own logistics problems.  Russian logistics are based upon railroad supply.  They have a hard time advancing more than 100 miles in front of their supply depot.

Attacking Finland would not trigger NATO involvement.  (NATO countries might sanction, but it is doubtful NATO would get involved, just like NATO isn't getting involved now in Ukraine.)  It would trigger EU defense, but Russia could quickly take a good portion of the country before the EU military could mobilize.  If/when the EU did mobilize, then Russia could agree to a ceasefire, at which time they would get to keep the ground they had already taken. 

So the real question is, how much ground could Russia gain before the EU military alliance could mobilize?  How much blood and treasure will they lose int he operation? How much in sanctions would they have to pay?  That is the calculation they have to compute.

In the case of Ukraine, they thought they could do a blitzkreig on the eastern and southern parts of the country.  They thought Ukraine would capitulate and they could take the vast part of the country before anyone knew what happened.  If any of Ukraine remained, it would be a small, weak, landlocked area in the west of Ukraine, and Lviv would likely be the new capital.  (Supposedly, Russia had offered to split Ukraine with Poland a few years ago.)

Bee Farmer, not living anywhere near the EU means that your not aware how things work there, what you say is ludicrous. It is well known I'm not the biggest fan of the EU but even the EU are useless as they are sometimes has some degree of organisation and mobilising power. In the virus pandemic though they ended up coming off second best to the quick response of the UK they did at least get to a response through slower than was helpful in the situation.

Fundamentally the EU cannot let an attack by an outside force on one of its members go unchallenged. It would threaten it's very existence and cause meant members to question being a part of it. They would have to organise a military response. They would not agree to any cease fire that would give away any territory the EU is way too pig headed for that, it took the UK many years to negotiate Brexit due to the EU's obstinacy. Once you understand the EU bureaucracy, attitude, etc then you will understand how they work and what to expect in any given situation, maybe not 100 percent but near enough in most cases.

Now Poland and many of the other East European states bordering Ukraine and Russia are NATO members. If Finland wax invaded they would be keen to call upon NATO as they are next in the row of countries down from Finland that might face invasion. France already has Nukes and is a NATO member also so whether just the EU or EU and NATO Nukes would be on the table either way. There is no certainty of NATO involvement but it's highly likely as a NATO member with Nukes, France would already be involved due to it being an EU member.

Within the EU France is likely the strongest military but it's bureaucratic (where the EU gets it from) and so that can sometimes hinder effectiveness, ability to move quickly and decisively. Italy and Spain are private decent enough armies. The real sleeping giant is Germany, they could be big and really bolster Europe's defence but it still hasn't got over its WWII hang up's and till date hasn't wanted to get too involved with creating a strong army again. It's really what the EU needs to really have a very effective component to the armies it may field. The rest, the Eastern Bloc armies are likely ok but could do with sone upgrading. They will have a fair amount of troops to bring to bear so in numbers will at least help on that front. Cumulatively there is enough defence jointly within the EU for Russia but to want to risk blunting their military and suffer total defeat by declaring war in EU members for no good reason like it has in Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2022, 08:25:48 PM
Those who don't understand that cookies and other tracking devices can lead to harm are very naive.
Maybe I'm not clear on what these little cookies can do, but on popular news sites what harm are they going to cause me...

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 08, 2022, 09:08:20 PM
Ukraine was not turning into a de facto NATO member.  NATO membership was never on the table, and I doubt strongly that NATO was an issue in this invasion. 

I agree.  Russia (Kaliningrad) is already surrounded by NATO. (Poland and Lithuania.)  Latvia is NATO, and borders Russia.  As far as I know, there are no nukes stationed in Poland, Lithuania, or Latvia.

Have you ever seen someone who had to sell off part of the family farm?  And afterwards, they are full of bitterness and resentment?  In their mind, that sold part still "belongs" to them.  It is an injustice that someone else controls that land now.  That is what Putin reminds me of.

I was in Ukraine in October 2013 for a beekeeping conference.  I didn't hear anyone wax nostalgia for the Soviet era.  Everyone was excited at the prospect of the European agreement.  They believed it would open up trade so they could make more money, and they believed it would help reduce corruption in Ukraine.  (Granted, I didn't visit the Eastern part of the country.  I spent time in Odessa, Kyiv, Zhytomir, Bila Tserkva, etc.)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 08, 2022, 09:25:14 PM
It is well known I'm not the biggest fan of the EU but even the EU are useless as they are sometimes has some degree of organisation and mobilising power. In the virus pandemic though they ended up coming off second best to the quick response of the UK they did at least get to a response through slower than was helpful in the situation.

Fundamentally the EU cannot let an attack by an outside force on one of its members go unchallenged. It would threaten it's very existence and cause meant members to question being a part of it. They would have to organise a military response. They would not agree to any cease fire that would give away any territory the EU is way too pig headed for that, it took the UK many years to negotiate Brexit due to the EU's obstinacy. Once you understand the EU bureaucracy, attitude, etc then you will understand how they work and what to expect in any given situation, maybe not 100 percent but near enough in most cases.

Once again, the EU is a joke as a military alliance.  You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Words on paper don't stop bombs and bullets.  It's easy to promise to defend another country - actually producing military equipment and men is a different story.

You say the EU would organize a military response if a EU member were attacked.  What are they doing to use to organize a military response?  What are they going to do, pick up sticks to fight with?  They can't even meet their minimum obligations under NATO.  (Trump threatened to pull out of NATO because the other NATO members didn't want to pay for a military, and just wanted the US to be their military protection and pay for everything.)   How are they going to organize a military response for the EU?

In theory, all members are supposed to organize to defend anyone else.  But let me explain how it works in reality.  Every individual country says, "I don't need a military anymore.  Everyone else will protect me.  I will have the smallest possible military...just enough for appearance purposes.  I don't want to spend any money on a military."  What you end up with is a group of countries that have minimal military capability.  Everyone in the EU expects everyone else to save them if they are attacked.

Germany is supposed to be the economic powerhouse of Europe.  They should be able to afford quality weaponry.  They finally donated some anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine.  They were Soviet era missiles that had been in storage so long that 1/3 were corroded so badly they were unusable, and it is uncertain if any of the others are usable.  What does the rest of their equipment look like?   

Do you think Putin and the Kremlin doesn't know this?  They are opportunistic, and want to try taking advantage of any situation if they can. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 08, 2022, 11:03:56 PM
Oh, please.  There was no "US backed coup" in Ukraine.  The US came into Ukraine very late in the game in 2014.
...
How, exactly, was Russia backed into a corner?  It wasn't forced to invade a sovereign nation to reestablish a "ruski mir".  It was in no mortal danger from Ukraine, militarily or economically.  By the time political ideas had any effect within Russia, Putin and his geriatric cabinet would have been long dead, or subsisting on toothless foods like kasha.
The US was involved and has remained involved. Ukraine has been supplied and trained by NATO (USA). That's not to justify Russia's actions but one can't honestly turn a blind eye either. I didn't say Russia was backed into a corner, I said if it is backed into a corner.

Russia's share of world oil sales is slightly higher than that, and it's naive to think supplies can be ramped up in a hurry. There's talk of multi-year incremental sanctions. That's absolutely going to split the world in two. The west will lose out.

But it's more than hydrocarbons. Nickel, uranium, titanium, gold, copper, aluminum and other hard commodities will be impacted severely. A large percentage of fertilizer is exported from Belarus (25% from memory). Ukraine and Russia account for almost a third of global wheat production. What's going to happen to the harvest this year?

Countries like Egypt, Turkey and Indonesia face the real risk of civil unrest due to rising food prices. Everything is going to get a lot more expensive and supply chains are going to break down. Global food insecurity is a big worry - including in western countries.

This is arguably more dangerous than any time during the Cold War. Russia has superior missile technology. Poland offering planes is insane (seems like the Pentagon are not so crazy). Do you think Russia will sit by and do nothing? If it does, do you think it wouldn't consider a nuclear strike?

Ukraine is collateral damage between USA and Russia. Dragging the whole world down with it IMO is not a very intelligent idea. As catastrophic as events are in Ukraine I am gravely concerned for the state of world affairs. This is a regional conflict that is now global and spiraling out of control. The lack of diplomacy is astounding.

A commodity producer like Canada may fare better than others, but the west is kaput. The EU is a disaster that will collapse in as spectacular fashion as the USSR.





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 09, 2022, 02:52:03 AM
The US was involved and has remained involved. Ukraine has been supplied and trained by NATO (USA). That's not to justify Russia's actions but one can't honestly turn a blind eye either. I didn't say Russia was backed into a corner, I said if it is backed into a corner.

Russia's share of world oil sales is slightly higher than that, and it's naive to think supplies can be ramped up in a hurry. There's talk of multi-year incremental sanctions. That's absolutely going to split the world in two. The west will lose out.

But it's more than hydrocarbons. Nickel, uranium, titanium, gold, copper, aluminum and other hard commodities will be impacted severely. A large percentage of fertilizer is exported from Belarus (25% from memory). Ukraine and Russia account for almost a third of global wheat production. What's going to happen to the harvest this year?

Countries like Egypt, Turkey and Indonesia face the real risk of civil unrest due to rising food prices. Everything is going to get a lot more expensive and supply chains are going to break down. Global food insecurity is a big worry - including in western countries.

This is arguably more dangerous than any time during the Cold War. Russia has superior missile technology. Poland offering planes is insane (seems like the Pentagon are not so crazy). Do you think Russia will sit by and do nothing? If it does, do you think it wouldn't consider a nuclear strike?

Ukraine is collateral damage between USA and Russia. Dragging the whole world down with it IMO is not a very intelligent idea. As catastrophic as events are in Ukraine I am gravely concerned for the state of world affairs. This is a regional conflict that is now global and spiraling out of control. The lack of diplomacy is astounding.

A commodity producer like Canada may fare better than others, but the west is kaput. The EU is a disaster that will collapse in as spectacular fashion as the USSR.
There’s a reason why you’re not at the table of international diplomacy. ☝🏻
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2022, 04:20:05 AM
I agree.  Russia (Kaliningrad) is already surrounded by NATO. (Poland and Lithuania.)  Latvia is NATO, and borders Russia.  As far as I know, there are no nukes stationed in Poland, Lithuania, or Latvia.

Have you ever seen someone who had to sell off part of the family farm?  And afterwards, they are full of bitterness and resentment?  In their mind, that sold part still "belongs" to them.  It is an injustice that someone else controls that land now.  That is what Putin reminds me of.

I was in Ukraine in October 2013 for a beekeeping conference.  I didn't hear anyone wax nostalgia for the Soviet era.  Everyone was excited at the prospect of the European agreement.  They believed it would open up trade so they could make more money, and they believed it would help reduce corruption in Ukraine.  (Granted, I didn't visit the Eastern part of the country.  I spent time in Odessa, Kyiv, Zhytomir, Bila Tserkva, etc.)
I was in Ukraine in October 2013 for a beekeeping conference.  I didn't hear anyone wax nostalgia for the Soviet era.  Everyone was excited at the prospect of the European agreement.  They believed it would open up trade so they could make more money, and they believed it would help reduce corruption in Ukraine.  (Granted, I didn't visit the Eastern part of the country.  I spent time in Odessa, Kyiv, Zhytomir, Bila Tserkva, etc.) 
 
 
 
Correct
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2022, 05:08:05 AM
Once again, the EU is a joke as a military alliance.  You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Words on paper don't stop bombs and bullets.  It's easy to promise to defend another country - actually producing military equipment and men is a different story.

You say the EU would organize a military response if a EU member were attacked.  What are they doing to use to organize a military response?  What are they going to do, pick up sticks to fight with?  They can't even meet their minimum obligations under NATO.  (Trump threatened to pull out of NATO because the other NATO members didn't want to pay for a military, and just wanted the US to be their military protection and pay for everything.)   How are they going to organize a military response for the EU?

In theory, all members are supposed to organize to defend anyone else.  But let me explain how it works in reality.  Every individual country says, "I don't need a military anymore.  Everyone else will protect me.  I will have the smallest possible military...just enough for appearance purposes.  I don't want to spend any money on a military."  What you end up with is a group of countries that have minimal military capability.  Everyone in the EU expects everyone else to save them if they are attacked.

Germany is supposed to be the economic powerhouse of Europe.  They should be able to afford quality weaponry.  They finally donated some anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine.  They were Soviet era missiles that had been in storage so long that 1/3 were corroded so badly they were unusable, and it is uncertain if any of the others are usable.  What does the rest of their equipment look like?   

Do you think Putin and the Kremlin doesn't know this?  They are opportunistic, and want to try taking advantage of any situation if they can.

The EU is not a member of NATO itself only some of its member states are. Some EU member states are not a member of NATO. The big problem with NATO as trump found is that it can make a lot of its members slack as you say with regards to stumping up money for their own defence. Germany has been a big one on that front, instead of spending what they should have on defence they have been putting that money towards their economy hence part of the reason they are the largest economy in Europe. They essentially haven't been spending out on their military as they should have been as they know they can call on NATO, i.e the US to do that in a pinch. So the US through NATO has been taking a lot of the economic burden for the EU's defence.

Hence why I say NATO should have been wound down and that burden passed over to the EU. The AUKUS alliance is a better situation for the US, the UK, and eventually Australia. It keeps us far enough away from conflict but at a strategic distance and makes sure that the members included can pull their own weight and have militaries up to the task. A lot of NATO members are now former Eastern Bloc countries and while their militaries aren't the worst they are far from the best also. Take Poland, Romania, etc old Soviet era stuff, planes, stuff that is mothballed. They aren't great allies as they are a burden, don't have great militaries and come with higher risk/liability of being drawn into a war with Russia.

The EU is not primarily a military alliance organisation but they have their military policy and they should be stumping up to takeover from NATO in terms of EU members defence. They don't as they know their isn't support for it as it will cost member states more. Many member states are a part of NATO and are able to slack off on military spending as a result while the build their economies up. Until NATO announces that it is winding down its operation in Europe they never will want to stump up what they should be fine defence. However, if the EU says to its members that one member has been attacked by an outside force the rest will come in as a result when called upon, they have little choice in the matter as it's what they signed up to in joining the EU.

Today the US rejected it's bases in Germany being used to fly Polish gets to Ukraine from. It fears being drawn into the conflict as a result that it could be seen by Russia as an offensive act. I think they are right not to risk it, it seems like another cunning attempt to me of hawks trying to find any excuse to get a war started and drag in NATO into the conflict. It is most unhelpful as they don't seem to realise that they are playing with fire and it could go horribly wrong with us all ending up in WWIII/Nuclear, Chemical or Hyperthermal war. I really wish they wouldn't be so pushy with trying to drag us into this situation it is really not our fight.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2022, 05:18:42 AM
Reality check.

This conflict is an escalation of a civil war largely stemming from a US-backed coup in Ukraine eight years ago. Prior to recent events there were 13,000+ civilian deaths and millions of refugees.

Ukraine was de facto turning into a NATO member, wanted NATO membership, made comments about acquiring nuclear weapons, and has official government policy of taking Crimea by force. In addition, the US and UK have both provoked Russia by nearing or entering their territorial waters last year. This conflict wasn't 'unprovoked'.

Russia has hypersonic weapons that are unstoppable by current western defensive systems. Russia has the world's best defensive missile systems. Their older S-300 system proved to be effective in Syria: http://thesaker.is/u-s-u-k-france-conduct-massive-missile-strike-on-syria-details/ (http://thesaker.is/u-s-u-k-france-conduct-massive-missile-strike-on-syria-details/)

If Russia is pushed hard enough it may let the nukes fly. Not because Putin is unhinged but because the balance of probabilities heavily favors striking western countries given that it has been backed into a corner. De-escalation is absolutely necessary ASAP.

The Russian government's actions are certainly questionable but also rational.
My observations:
13000 including civilians and losses in both camps
Refugees: between 1.5 and 2 million
 
US-backed coup: no IMHO, reread Boethius explanation for the willingness of the population to join EU and 2/ Yakynovitch pushed the corruption too far (he wanted to create a business system that allowed him to take a personal percentage on the whole cereals market) so people started to gather in Maidan to protest. You know what happened next. So when the Russian Federation wants to bring back the same idiot to the Presidency of Ukraine (his hands are bloody, more than 100 people died around Maidan), what is the message to the Ukrainian people?A calculated and cynical contempt for Ukraine and its people. That was the RF's plan, re-induct this puppet back. So my analysis has now progressed to aim to the point that the RF hates democracy as a political system (put whatever reasons you like) and is totally ruled up by the same system that prevailed 50 years ago, during the Soviet Union - cold war. But in the end, it's even worse because there is no Politburo anymore and corruption has seized the whole society.
I recommend reading a recent interview of an old Russian general of 78 years:http://nypost.com/2022/02/07/ex-russia-general-warns-putin-against-criminal-ukraine-invasion/ (http://nypost.com/2022/02/07/ex-russia-general-warns-putin-against-criminal-ukraine-invasion/)
 
I have already written that everything coming from Ukraine talking about NATO memberships and even the EU at this moment is politically insane.
 
The new generation of offensive Russian weapons is a first concern yes. Their strategic bombers associated with the new missiles' generation (SU22, TU160) are a nightmare for every HQ in the West.
 
The S300's effectiveness is a little more complicated. The Russian Federation wants to sell it abroad (Turkey has S300, as Ukraine) but the real performance is not clear. It is still a very decent and feared SAM system (it is said that it could detect stealth planes but who really knows) but between two affirmations of 100% hits (US version) and 25% hits (Syrian version) the truth is probably midway.
 
I do agree that the Russian Federation shouldn't be put in a corner too much. Red lines must be clearly understood and never crossed.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 09, 2022, 07:51:32 AM
My observations:
13000 including civilians and losses in both camps
Refugees: between 1.5 and 2 million
 
US-backed coup: no IMHO, reread Boethius explanation for the willingness of the population to join EU and 2/ Yakynovitch pushed the corruption too far (he wanted to create a business system that allowed him to take a personal percentage on the whole cereals market) so people started to gather in Maidan to protest. You know what happened next. So when the Russian Federation wants to bring back the same idiot to the Presidency of Ukraine (his hands are bloody, more than 100 people died around Maidan), what is the message to the Ukrainian people?A calculated and cynical contempt for Ukraine and its people. That was the RF's plan, re-induct this puppet back. So my analysis has now progressed to aim to the point that the RF hates democracy as a political system (put whatever reasons you like) and is totally ruled up by the same system that prevailed 50 years ago, during the Soviet Union - cold war. But in the end, it's even worse because there is no Politburo anymore and corruption has seized the whole society.
I recommend reading a recent interview of an old Russian general of 78 years:http://nypost.com/2022/02/07/ex-russia-general-warns-putin-against-criminal-ukraine-invasion/ (http://nypost.com/2022/02/07/ex-russia-general-warns-putin-against-criminal-ukraine-invasion/)
 
I have already written that everything coming from Ukraine talking about NATO memberships and even the EU at this moment is politically insane.
 
The new generation of offensive Russian weapons is a first concern yes. Their strategic bombers associated with the new missiles' generation (SU22, TU160) are a nightmare for every HQ in the West.
 
The S300's effectiveness is a little more complicated. The Russian Federation wants to sell it abroad (Turkey has S300, as Ukraine) but the real performance is not clear. It is still a very decent and feared SAM system (it is said that it could detect stealth planes but who really knows) but between two affirmations of 100% hits (US version) and 25% hits (Syrian version) the truth is probably midway.
 
I do agree that the Russian Federation shouldn't be put in a corner too much. Red lines must be clearly understood and never crossed.

S-400, not S-300.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 09, 2022, 07:54:30 AM
The EU is not a member of NATO itself only some of its member states are. Some EU member states are not a member of NATO. The big problem with NATO as trump found is that it can make a lot of its members slack as you say with regards to stumping up money for their own defence. Germany has been a big one on that front, instead of spending what they should have on defence they have been putting that money towards their economy hence part of the reason they are the largest economy in Europe. They essentially haven't been spending out on their military as they should have been as they know they can call on NATO, i.e the US to do that in a pinch. So the US through NATO has been taking a lot of the economic burden for the EU's defence.

Hence why I say NATO should have been wound down and that burden passed over to the EU. The AUKUS alliance is a better situation for the US, the UK, and eventually Australia. It keeps us far enough away from conflict but at a strategic distance and makes sure that the members included can pull their own weight and have militaries up to the task. A lot of NATO members are now former Eastern Bloc countries and while their militaries aren't the worst they are far from the best also. Take Poland, Romania, etc old Soviet era stuff, planes, stuff that is mothballed. They aren't great allies as they are a burden, don't have great militaries and come with higher risk/liability of being drawn into a war with Russia.

The EU is not primarily a military alliance organisation but they have their military policy and they should be stumping up to takeover from NATO in terms of EU members defence. They don't as they know their isn't support for it as it will cost member states more. Many member states are a part of NATO and are able to slack off on military spending as a result while the build their economies up. Until NATO announces that it is winding down its operation in Europe they never will want to stump up what they should be fine defence. However, if the EU says to its members that one member has been attacked by an outside force the rest will come in as a result when called upon, they have little choice in the matter as it's what they signed up to in joining the EU.

Today the US rejected it's bases in Germany being used to fly Polish gets to Ukraine from. It fears being drawn into the conflict as a result that it could be seen by Russia as an offensive act. I think they are right not to risk it, it seems like another cunning attempt to me of hawks trying to find any excuse to get a war started and drag in NATO into the conflict. It is most unhelpful as they don't seem to realise that they are playing with fire and it could go horribly wrong with us all ending up in WWIII/Nuclear, Chemical or Hyperthermal war. I really wish they wouldn't be so pushy with trying to drag us into this situation it is really not our fight.
Hypothermal war?
Go on, basement warrior, explain to us what this is, since you seem to be making stuff up of the cuff.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2022, 08:37:09 AM
S-400, not S-300.

In Syria S300, not S400. The Russian Federation does have an S400 but for the protection of their own base. Around Damas S300.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 09, 2022, 08:44:17 AM

In Syria S300, not S400. The Russian Federation does have an S400 but for the protection of their own base. Around Damas S300.
You wrote Turkey has S-300’s. They don’t. They have S-400’s.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 09, 2022, 08:57:18 AM
I agree.  Russia (Kaliningrad) is already surrounded by NATO. (Poland and Lithuania.)  Latvia is NATO, and borders Russia.  As far as I know, there are no nukes stationed in Poland, Lithuania, or Latvia.

Have you ever seen someone who had to sell off part of the family farm?  And afterwards, they are full of bitterness and resentment?  In their mind, that sold part still "belongs" to them.  It is an injustice that someone else controls that land now.  That is what Putin reminds me of.

I was in Ukraine in October 2013 for a beekeeping conference.  I didn't hear anyone wax nostalgia for the Soviet era.  Everyone was excited at the prospect of the European agreement.  They believed it would open up trade so they could make more money, and they believed it would help reduce corruption in Ukraine.  (Granted, I didn't visit the Eastern part of the country.  I spent time in Odessa, Kyiv, Zhytomir, Bila Tserkva, etc.)

At that time the general feeling across Ukraine would be same as you experienced.
Kharkiv dnepr are the next largest cities and attitudes would be the same.

The donbas region included, the exceptions would be those powerful people already holding corrupt wealthy.positions fearing any change.
  I think most remember where the prior Russian puppets where from and why that's their strong hold.

This is more akin a mafia thugs, upscaled to battalions, modern equipment of warfare including nukes

They lost their roof payments,their turf, and are pissed.

To me it's really that simple.

Certainly it's more complex, anf thousansd of factors at play,
but I'm not certain at its root that it truly is not just that simple.

As far as NATO borders you forgot to mention Estonia.
Between Estonia and Latvia ,(and kaliningrad)  Russia has had a lot of shared border with NATO nations.

The only real danger this presents to them.is the inability to expand.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 09, 2022, 10:07:53 AM
The UK is going to provide Ukraine with the Starstreak SAM systems.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 09, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
A military band was playing the "Don't worry ..be happy " song  in the centre of Odessa today.


Poroshenko was rallying the troops and civilian defence units in Kiev yesterday and they were laughing...no fear in their eyes at all.


No wonder the vast majoity of western men fail in their search for a wife in Ukraine..how can they compare with real men like this... that laugh in the face of death ?



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2022, 11:10:46 AM
You wrote Turkey has S-300’s. They don’t. They have S-400’s.
Yep S400 now
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2022, 01:43:29 PM
The US was involved and has remained involved. Ukraine has been supplied and trained by NATO (USA). That's not to justify Russia's actions but one can't honestly turn a blind eye either. I didn't say Russia was backed into a corner, I said if it is backed into a corner.

The US was not involved in the first demonstrations against Yanukovych.  The first demonstrations were after he arrested Tymoshenko, and those protestors likely were paid to protest Tymoshenko's arrest.  Thereafter, as I stated, Yanukovych rejected negotiations with the EU, and that is what started massive protests.  That and his increasing kleptocracy.  I had given Yanukovych the benefit of the doubt on the latter charge, but I was wrong, and Ukrainian activists who had pointed to his theft of state assets proved accurate.

Many, but not all of the leading Ukrainian activists were trained in the US on civil society.  Most of that is funded by the Ukrainian diaspora, though, not the US government.  Ukrainians come to Canada for that training as well.  You need to understand just how much the diaspora did in helping establish democratic institutions in Ukraine.  That is what most of the US funding goes toward.  It's not going to control the country. 

There have been 7 presidents of Ukraine.  One was a placeholder.  Of those, 3 were "pro Moscow" and 3, "pro West".  Personally, I believe Poroshenko and Zelensky had no other choice, given the invasion of Ukrainian territory by Russia.

Quote
Russia's share of world oil sales is slightly higher than that, and it's naive to think supplies can be ramped up in a hurry. There's talk of multi-year incremental sanctions. That's absolutely going to split the world in two. The west will lose out.

Only slightly - 10% at best.  I didn't state supplies can be ramped up in a hurry.  But they will be within a year or a year and a half. 

This won't split the world in two.  China is going to pursue what is best for China.  Same with India.  No civilized country though, is going to endorse an invasion of a sovereign country on the flimsiest of so called "provocations".  History also doesn't favour Russia.  Please name one war in the last 100 years, other than wars of national liberation, that has worked in favour of an invader. 

Quote
But it's more than hydrocarbons. Nickel, uranium, titanium, gold, copper, aluminum and other hard commodities will be impacted severely. A large percentage of fertilizer is exported from Belarus (25% from memory). Ukraine and Russia account for almost a third of global wheat production. What's going to happen to the harvest this year?

Prices are going to increase, that's what will happen. 

Belarus is not even in the top 10 in fertilizer production.   But I happen to know that Saskatchewan, which produces most of Canada's fertilizer (Canada is number 5 in the world, in terms of production) can produce a lot more.  Drive through the middle of the province, and you can see potash literally for miles on either side of the road, and that potash is not being mined or collected. 

Quote
Countries like Egypt, Turkey and Indonesia face the real risk of civil unrest due to rising food prices. Everything is going to get a lot more expensive and supply chains are going to break down. Global food insecurity is a big worry - including in western countries.

Again, I am unworried personally about food security, although prices will continue to rise (they have, significantly, already).  I sent the better half to the Russian store to buy sunflower oil and buckwheat, both from Ukraine, as their product is better than local, by a mile. 

Quote
This is arguably more dangerous than any time during the Cold War. Russia has superior missile technology. Poland offering planes is insane (seems like the Pentagon are not so crazy). Do you think Russia will sit by and do nothing? If it does, do you think it wouldn't consider a nuclear strike?

If Russia fires a nuclear missile, I believe it would be met with the same response.  So no, I don't think this is a huge risk.

Quote
Ukraine is collateral damage between USA and Russia. Dragging the whole world down with it IMO is not a very intelligent idea. As catastrophic as events are in Ukraine I am gravely concerned for the state of world affairs. This is a regional conflict that is now global and spiraling out of control. The lack of diplomacy is astounding.

It is not a "regional conflict".  It is a man of middling intellect assuming he could impose his will on a sovereign nation of 44 million people, the vast majority of them, hostile to what he stands for. 

I do agree on the lack of diplomacy.

Quote
A commodity producer like Canada may fare better than others, but the west is kaput. The EU is a disaster that will collapse in as spectacular fashion as the USSR.

I believe your assertion on the demise of the EU is overstated.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 09, 2022, 01:59:07 PM
What is America's foreign policy ?

OH, FOR THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF THE SOVIET UNION. America’s foreign policy and goals were clear then: containment and opposition to communist expansion. Nuclear weapons were a deterrent, but neither side believed the other would use them.

Putin has changed the game by threatening to use nukes should the U.S. directly confront his forces now raping Ukraine and committing war crimes that the world is watching thanks to ubiquitous mobile phones, brave reporters and camera crews.

President Biden and top members of his administration say we can’t directly intervene to stop Russia because of Putin’s threat. Is that America’s new foreign policy? If we can do little beyond sanctions against nations that have nuclear weapons this will signal to those who have them — and those planning to acquire them —that they have little to fear from America should they proceed with invading Taiwan (China) or attacking Israel (Iran).

Suppose Putin is emboldened by at least temporary success in Ukraine and proceeds to invade other countries that once were in the Soviet orbit, but are now sovereign states.   Finland has a border with Russia that is more than 800 miles long.

Will someone in this administration please tell us how far we would be prepared to go to help  allies? Would the excuse that Russia has nuclear weapons be used to keep America from directly engaging Russian forces should they invade additional non-NATO countries? It would be nice to know and soon.

The increasingly secular West has difficulty understanding evil, except in general terms. It is why what appears to be a pending nuclear deal between the U.S. and Iran is fraught with danger. If reports are accurate, Iran would be required to ship its uranium to another country. Would that
country be Russia? And as part of the deal would the U.S. then buy Iranian oil in hopes of reducing gas prices ahead of the fall election? That would surely be a deal with the Devil and the ultimate in cynicism.

Evil can never be accommodated. It must be opposed, even defeated. That was Ronald Reagan’s goal with the Soviet Union.   Now Putin thinks he can reincarnate the USSR.

Are we blind?  Are we stupid? Do we have a foreign policy? If so, what is it?

email Cal Thomas at tcaeditors@tribpub.com.  CAL THOMAS
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2022, 02:01:26 PM
This piece is from my part of the world, where our economy is dominated by oil.

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/varcoe-u-s-ban-on-russian-oil-an-earthquake-that-could-shake-up-future-of-global-energy-supply (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/varcoe-u-s-ban-on-russian-oil-an-earthquake-that-could-shake-up-future-of-global-energy-supply)


From the article:

Quote
“Russian exports are a pretty meaningful piece of global supply,” Cenovus Energy CEO Alex Pourbaix said in an interview from Houston.

“I’m personally confident that you will see the other oil-producing nations of the world be able, with time, to make up that slack . . . The world’s oil needs are going to get met. But I do think for a period of time, we are likely in for a pretty volatile oil market.”

Cenovus is one of the three largest oil companies in Canada. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 09, 2022, 03:21:59 PM
Evil can never be accommodated. It must be opposed, even defeated. That was Ronald Reagan’s goal with the Soviet Union.   Now Putin thinks he can reincarnate the USSR.

Are we blind?  Are we stupid? Do we have a foreign policy? If so, what is it?

The only thing that can change Putin is the Russian people.  These same questions above need to be posed by them.

Helping Ukraine defend itself and providing assistance to innocent citizens is the best we can do at this time, unfortunately.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Stirlitz on March 09, 2022, 04:19:43 PM
If we can do little beyond sanctions against nations that have nuclear weapons this will signal to those who have them — and those planning to acquire them —that they have little to fear from America should they proceed with invading Taiwan (China) or attacking Israel (Iran).
I will tell you more. In 2014 everyone out there got a clear message: never, never ever give up your nukes if you have them in exchange for any, whatever guarantees. NEVER.


And, if you don’t have nukes, get them ASAP! This is your one and only guarantee against someone else attacking your country, annexing your soil, killing your people and - as we all see now - committing a flat-out genocide.


All of this is America's fault. It was the U.S. alongside Nazi Russia who rid Ukraine of the nukes in 1994. Only to use the memorandum signed in Budapest as toilet paper 20 years later.


Thank you America for the new world nuclear order.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2022, 05:14:02 PM
You mean you got scammed by Americans! hard to believe :-\
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 09, 2022, 05:43:12 PM
You mean you got scammed by Americans! hard to believe :-\
Okey dokey..... Moderated until further notice .... someday .... maybe.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 09, 2022, 06:14:01 PM

Suppose Putin is emboldened by at least temporary success in Ukraine and proceeds to invade other countries that once were in the Soviet orbit, but are now sovereign states.   Finland has a border with Russia that is more than 800 miles long.
 
Russia will get away with Ukraine with being sanctioned, which in itself will harm them.  If they try to move into nations such as Finland it would be a different story. 
I'd say, like practically everything, it is case by case.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 09, 2022, 07:07:02 PM
If the Russians were called to withdraw to the borders quickly...It may mean that a chemical attack is next on the agenda.
Quote
Russia could launch chemical attack in Ukraine - White House
By Gordon Corera
Security correspondent, BBC NewsPublished
2 hours ago
Russia could be planning a chemical or biological weapon attack in Ukraine - and "we should all be on the lookout", the White House has said.Press secretary Jen Psaki said Russia's claims about US biological weapon labs, and chemical weapon development in Ukraine, were preposterous.She called the false claims an "obvious ploy" to try to justify further premeditated, unprovoked attacks.It comes after Western officials shared similar concerns about fresh attacks.They said they were "very concerned" about the risk the war could escalate, and particularly the possibility of Russia using non-conventional weapons. This most likely refers to chemical weapons although the term also covers tactical (small-scale) nuclear weapons, biological weapons and dirty bombs.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60683248
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 09, 2022, 07:50:20 PM
8 generals fired.
http://zn.ua/UKRAINE/v-rossii-uvolili-vosem-heneralov-i-izmenili-taktiku-vedenija-vojny-danilov.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 09, 2022, 08:17:43 PM
On YouTube, I saw an interview by DW (German news) with retired US General Wesley Clark.  He said that on April first, 130,000 young Russian men are required to show up for conscription into the military as new privates.  He said that if we can find a way to convince even 1/3 of Russian mothers not to send their sons to be cannon fodder, that would have a huge impact on the Russian military.

Have people forgotten about vk.com and Odnoklassniki?  They were banned by Ukraine a few years ago, but the Russians still use these social media sites.  (A few Ukrainians still use these sites via a VPN.)  Why are refugee Ukrainians not using these sites more once they leave Ukraine and can access these sites again?  Log in to their old accounts, and start posting information about the war and atrocities in Ukraine.  This would be a way to get info into Russia to reach the people.  Has the average Ukrainian forgotten about vk since they have not been able to use it for a few years?

Yes, it would only be a matter of time before Russia shut down these social media sites, but by then it would be too late.  If there was a concerted effort by Ukrainians refugees, they could overwhelm social media in Russia.

I still have a vk account, but I know it has minimal impact.  And any Russians who do see it may dismiss it as western propaganda, since I am an American.   But if more Slavs and native Russian speakers were to post the atrocities on vk, it would be harder for the average Russian citizen to turn a blind eye.

Should Ukraine consider allowing citizens to access vk again, so they can spread the truth about what is happening in Ukraine?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 09, 2022, 09:23:01 PM
Which comedy slapstick/cartoon gave you this idea? 
The Барнаул Bone Spur Show?

Russia ain’t America, you want your malchick exempted
he can temporarily opt out with an educational deferment and if he’s gonna try and get a medical deferment, he better be blind or missin a leg, otherwise his choice is a year in service or two in prison…

before this year, the standard price to pay in Moscva for an exemption was 25,000 USD
that was before, price is MUCH higher now…
almost nobody in Moscva with that kinda money nowadays anyway
so only a few oligarchniks can pull that off, and they already got their kids outta Dodgeski

In addition, for a “REAL RUSSIAN MAN", even a young one, being a soldat is a necessary badge of honor, no matter what the details, especially with all the nonstop patriotic propagandizing,

so sitting this one out, ain’t gonna happen for ANY Russians or Ukrainians
only a “little slabak malchick” would think like this or even have this idea…
ponelle?

PS, your cartoonish idea is rather silly
but here's a REALLY good cartoon!!


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 09, 2022, 09:44:56 PM
Bee farmer,

 Indo think most are doing so?

 There is a very unpredictable acceptance of this info as well and its impact on decisions,as well.as consequences of the young men not signing up.

Obviously I'm  very pro Ukraine,  however I know in a large circle of my relatives past friends living now in Moscow their old classmates profiles and feeds are often full.of pro Russian rhetoric, slogans and vids. It's just unfathomable as they have family un Ukraine,but its there.
Some are of course.pro Ukraine, but these are all Ukrainians,  its very shocking to us  about some of these decades long family  friends we have  called ,for example  because their mothers live near or even soame building as my mil.. .they often still dont believe this is going on to any.scale.
I assure you its tearing families and old friends apart,and that's ukrainians that merely relocated.
The Russians would be a mixed bag also, but hardly more empathetic on average.

I do think it's a good idea that they try ,but effectiveness seems very  very low

I do know from.limited experience that most I know are doing so ,and facing limited success and a lot of  angst over it.

To be fair we know many.Russian friends completey denouncing this openly, and certainly the majority of expat ukrainians in russia are doing so.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 09, 2022, 10:35:50 PM
So what happens when the Ukrainian government falls after the war switches from “siege” to “starvation” tactics after Odesa and Kyiv are encircled?

Will western sanctions imposed on Russia, also be imposed on Ukraine after this?  If not, won’t Russia just use Ukraine to its advantage vis-a-vis sanctions?  If yes, how can hurting Ukrainians be justified?

After the Ukrainian government falls, and the Ukrayins'ka Povstans'ka Armiya sets up shop in Poland and is attacked by Ukrainian Titushki Armiya hired by Russia, and Warshava has a “9-11”
what good will NATO be to Poland, who will they fight, Ukraine?

What happens after the west throws EVERY possible sanction it can possibly throw at Russia, and Russia just chugs along anyway, but decides to fight back with advanced asymmetrical warfare that they’ve had YEARS to plan for.  If 9-11 could be done by 19 terrorists with boxcutters, what the hell do you think the FSB and GRU could do?  And what could the west do in response?
more sanctions? LOL!!

You really think Ukraine is gonna win?
You really think the west is gonna win? – how?

Putin wants the sanctions, because it forces the oligarchs to stay in Russia and keep their money there and the iron curtain is ENTIRELY to his advantage, keeping in, what he wants to keep in, and keeping out, what he wants to keep out...

how are ya'll gonna defeat this?  by doing exactly what  he wants you to do?  really good plan, yeah, sure...
meanwhile you should be REALLY afraid of HIS plan of attacking you, it makes the Wuhan Institute of Virology look funny!!!
you have NO IDEA how sophisticated Russians are at this, more than ANYONE else on the planet by orders of magnitude, China, USA included...
Sviets/Russians have been working on this for over 60 years
no one else has what they have, it was created for EXACTLY this kinda situation, OMG, the Moscva office of Vektor must be elated right now
look what a relatively mild virus like Covid did to the west...

Russians have thousands of personnel working on this
plus even more with their anti-plague system which they didn't even bother to use for covid, cuz it wasn't a sufficient enough threat
none of ya'll in the west have even a clue of what they can do....
and that's not even talking about "Kamera" in Leninskiy rayon
which I first thought was some kinda "photo-apparat" LOL!!!




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 12:06:34 AM
You are giving the Russians far too much credit, krimster.


The KGB couldn't even predict the demise of their own country 30 years ago.  The Russians haven't been able to take Ukraine in the few days they thought they would.  They did not believe the EU would be willing to impose sanctions.  The oligarchs certainly didn't believe their Western assets would be confiscated.  Do you really believe they will settle for the beaches of Phuket after Paris, Italy, and London?  In Russia, they are under constant control.  It's not a life they want, having indulged themselves (and as the better half says, they are all swine) in the decadent West. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 10, 2022, 12:41:59 AM
All of this is America's fault. It was the U.S. alongside Nazi Russia who rid Ukraine of the nukes in 1994. Only to use the memorandum signed in Budapest as toilet paper 20 years later.


Thank you America for the new world nuclear order.

Igor,

Any agreements are built on trust between nations.  When trust has eroded, those agreements are simply pieces of paper.

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-09/news/us-completes-inf-treaty-withdrawal

What I do think has happened over the years is that we have taken peace (in most places) for granted, declaring the "Cold War" over and such, resting on laurels instead of continuing dialogue.

But ultimately, what does Putin fear?  Does he fear an attack by NATO?  I think not.  IMO Putin's Russia fears things like genuinely free elections, laws that give its citizens equality and a genuine say in government. Laws that combat corruption to provide more to ordinary citizens and not new oligarchs.  Laws that offer more economic benefit to the lower classes.  Laws that allow true freedom of speech.

Putin cannot afford people in Ukraine to live better and more freely than folks in Russia.
The excuses Putin puts forth to justify military action in Ukraine are simply veils that hide the full extent of his fears and eventual loss of political power.  His balloon is nearing the bursting point, and he has to fight to protect it from the tiny pin that can make it burst.

I doubt mistakes from the past led to this war in Ukraine.  It was destined to happen one day or another.  Striving for freedom has never been achieved without high costs and blood.  This is an unfortunate part of the process against those who hold power over us.  This is Putin's struggle to maintain control.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2022, 02:15:59 AM

But ultimately, what does Putin fear?  Does he fear an attack by NATO?  I think not.   


It's not so much that Putin thinks NATO is going to attack but the unease of having an opposing power of strength on his doorstep. More than that is the eastward expansion of both NATO and the EU. Yeltsin opposed the expansion of the EU after the breakup of the USSR. The EU had to tread slowly and carefully, creeping forward a bit at a time in expansion to avoid and sudden movements that might startle the Russian Bear.

Russia of course has China on its doorstep also as a power of strength but China is not seen as an opposing force, at least not so much as yet. China's focus is expansion into the South China sea region and beyond. China is also at odds with the US, UK, NATO somewhat so they have similar issues.

Another side to this is that Russia wants a bit of space from the EU and NATO. Before EU enlargement there was a lot of the Eastern Bloc countries that were quite a bulwark between Russia band the EU, now there is only Ukraine & Belarus. The EU exposes western values and that is something that is alien and uncomfortable to Russia. So seeing the ever eastwards expansion of the EU and NATO isn't much fun for Russia.

I've got to say it would be nice to have somewhere in Europe that is not Euroland. That's what I liked about Ukraine that it was different to western values and culture. If they were to join the EU they would have to go by EU rules and western influences may creep in even more. To me that would likely ruin the positives Ukraine has got in its own culture.

So Russia basically wants I think some of its own like minded countries around it so it can be units own world rather than have the western world staring it right in the face. That's what I gather if the situation, if course it's not at all on what it is doing its pretty appalling but I guess they see they have no choice. The EU & NATO have expanded towards them so they now feel they have to push back I reckon.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 10, 2022, 02:31:12 AM
Trains now with people going back to Ukraine..men,women and children...as per Sky News reporters on the border with Poland.


They're saying they cannot leave their country and that they'll go back and fight...the women as well as the men.


Aircraft strikes in Ukraine have lessened a lot over the last few days..as the Russian aircraft have been getting shot out of the sky...this from the UK Ministry of Defence.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2022, 07:26:56 AM
Trains now with people going back to Ukraine..men,women and children...as per Sky News reporters on the border with Poland.
They're saying they cannot leave their country and that they'll go back and fight...the women as well as the men.
Civilians returning to a bombed out warzone seems like a bad idea. 

Once the exodus began, I thought it was in Russia's interest to permit it and promote accelerating it.  Basically it removes non fighters while putting Russia in a position where it has a better chance to control those who remain.  For that reason I don't generally believe the stories of Russia intentionally bombing exodus corridors.   I'd be more apt to believe the people returning by train being struck with intent.

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 10, 2022, 10:06:42 AM

Shoigu story
http://nv.ua/ukr/world/geopolitics/rosiyska-armiya-slabka-ministr-oboroni-rf-jiji-pograbuvav-50223839.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 11:51:30 AM

it’s understood by everyone now in Moscva there will be no more Mercedes or BMWs, but instead Ladas...

Analysts at the FSB have plenty of skills and resources of all kinds, but it doesn’t matter, because someone “higher up” will decide that a conclusion is too negative, and must be changed to a more positive one to fit the official view,  after awhile analysts learn what the correct report is supposed to be, so in order not to have to work double shifts, they learn to write correct reports

writing correct reports is a sign of your “loyalty”, everyone wants to be considered loyal, otherwise you you are considered an “enemy”

what doesn’t exist right now in Moscva, is a well-developed model of economic management under the current sanctions, nor reliable information with regards to loyalty of the elites in the financial and political sectors, nor reliable information on the impending extreme measures to be implemented in Russia.

everyone’s reports contradicts everyone elses, so it’s all just “bardak” and useless
as a result, there is a constant stream of new data on "emergent" economic problems that "cannot exist"

there are MAJOR supply chain problems inside Russia, particularly in the single industry industrial cities that is leading to a shortage of military hardware

due to all these economic problems (lots of people aren’t even paid their measly salaries now) there is an expected explosive increase in major crime expected within Russia, especially when combined with the war psychosis that’s growing…

There is now complete dysfunction of the former economic model as there is no more stabilization fund, the exchange rate is laughable, and the old system of employment is now impossible in principle, and as a result Russia has shifted from crisis mode to catastrophe mode

a lot of the analysts that I personally know believe that if the current problems go on for more than a year, then as a result, the central government will collapse (but they will NOT put this in any report)

The ruble printing presses will work overtime to try to stem the flood, but this will just produce a different catastrophe

power is being mobilized for use within Russia as well as Ukraine, all cities are being militarized
while everyone is looking for enemies and saboteurs

there’s going to be huge changes in the military command, expect the most ruthless individuals to rise to the top, what this means is that when Russian tanks enter Kyiv, they will have Ukrainian women and children marching in ranks on all sides as human shields, expect public mass executions, etc.

uncontrolled violence is the future of Russia and Ukraine, and this may also be transmitted to other parts of the world when the food supply chain fails
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 12:23:26 PM
I suspect if women and children are used as shields and the civilian population is mass executed, the West will intervene.  There is only so far it can be pushed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 10, 2022, 12:54:03 PM
Lada production halted due to lack of supplies in Russia has been widely reported.


I suspect Russia will start having problems getting supplies for their military too.


At this rate China will just walk in and take over Russia,with the majority of the Russian forces stuck in Ukraine with no supplies.


Why pay Russia for their Oil and Gas when China could get it for free ?






Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on March 10, 2022, 12:59:18 PM
it’s understood by everyone now in Moscva there will be no more Mercedes or BMWs, but instead Ladas...

Analysts at the FSB CIA have plenty of skills and resources of all kinds, but it doesn’t matter, because someone “higher up” will decide that a conclusion is too negative, and must be changed to a more positive one to fit the official view,  after awhile analysts learn what the correct report is supposed to be, so in order not to have to work double shifts, they learn to write correct reports

writing correct reports is a sign of your “loyalty”, everyone wants to be considered loyal, otherwise you you are considered an “enemy”

what doesn’t exist right now in the West Moscva, is a well-developed model of economic management under the current sanctions conditions, nor reliable information with regards to loyalty of the elites in the financial and political sectors, nor reliable information on the impending extreme measures to be implemented in Russia the West.

everyone’s reports contradicts everyone elses, so it’s all just “bardak” and useless
as a result, there is a constant stream of new data on "emergent" economic problems that "cannot exist"

there are MAJOR supply chain problems inside Russia, particularly in the single industry industrial cities that is leading to a shortage of military hardware

due to all these economic problems (lots of people aren’t even paid their measly salaries now) there is an expected explosive increase in major crime expected within Russia the West, especially when combined with the war psychosis that’s growing…

There is now complete dysfunction of the former economic model as there is no more stabilization fund, the exchange rate is laughable, and the old system of employment is now impossible in principle, and as a result Russia has shifted from crisis mode to catastrophe mode

a lot of the analysts that I personally know believe that if the current problems go on for more than a year, then as a result, the central government will collapse (but they will NOT put this in any report)

The ruble dollar printing presses will work overtime to try to stem the flood, but this will just produce a different catastrophe

power is being mobilized for use within Russia as well as Ukraine, all cities are being militarized
while everyone is looking for enemies and saboteurs

there’s going to be huge changes in the military command, expect the most ruthless individuals to rise to the top, what this means is that when Russian tanks enter Kyiv, they will have Ukrainian women and children marching in ranks on all sides as human shields, expect public mass executions, etc.

uncontrolled violence is the future of Russia the West and Ukraine, and this may also be transmitted to other parts of the world when the food supply chain fails

Hey! Sounds just like Amerika
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 01:11:32 PM
"I suspect if women and children are used as shields and the civilian population is mass executed, the West will intervene."

if the west escalates, Russia will also escalate, I can already tell you who will win that scenario
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 01:18:12 PM
Well, no one wins.  However, Russia cannot win against combined NATO forces.  I am fairly certain of that.  Heck, they couldn't even take Ukraine in a week.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2022, 01:18:40 PM
Bangladesh doesn't rush in to join with the west and they lose their donated 'death jabs'  Population of Bangladesh is remarkably high considering their space.....165 Million about one half of the US population. 

Bangladesh will pay for its “support” of Russia in canceled vaccine donations

....Now, with the world taking sides in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, vaccine access is being used to retaliate against countries that aren’t expressing full opposition to Russia’s actions. This is what happened in the case of Lithuania, which decided to cancel its donation of nearly half a million Pfizer covid-19 vaccine doses to Bangladesh, after Bangladesh abstained in the UN General Assembly’s vote condemning the invasion.....


 http://qz.com/2139368/lithuania-cancelled-its-vaccine-donation-to-bangladesh/?utm_source=YPL   (http://qz.com/2139368/lithuania-cancelled-its-vaccine-donation-to-bangladesh/?utm_source=YPL)

Fathertime! 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 01:21:48 PM
I understand completely why former Soviet republics would do this.  They don't want Russia emboldened in any way.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 10, 2022, 01:27:46 PM
Well, no one wins.  However, Russia cannot win against combined NATO forces.  I am fairly certain of that.  Heck, they couldn't even take Ukraine in a week.


It's two weeks now .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 01:31:39 PM
" I am fairly certain of that.  Heck, they couldn't even take Ukraine in a week."

it won't be a war fought with conventional weapons, Russia will escalate into a completely new territory of warfare, for which the West is completely unprepared and would not survive
and this is without using its conventional nuclear forces...
Russia is more resiliant than the west, it's one of the reasons I own a farm in Costa Rica as insurance for my family

faux pas, just for you a picture of my Gen II Russian hand canon, aka, 26.5 mm flare gun
note the brass insert I machined myself to insert 12 ga shotgun shells, which thanks to Marina Butina are available in all Russian sporting goods stores
I load my own shells using about 50% more powder than standard shells, and use 4mm tungsten welding rods available in all welding shops cut to 10mm lengths
it's for very close range work, but your victim's face will be completely unrecognizable even from dental records should thery exist
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 01:34:58 PM
Sorry, I don't believe that.  Nor do I believe Russians are tougher. 


It's not the 20th century.  Russia survived in the past because of weather.  That's not so much a factor now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 10, 2022, 01:45:42 PM
Drone footage shows Russian tank column retreat after artillery ambush------

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-drone-footage-shows-russian-tank-column-retreat-after-artillery-ambush-12562334
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 10, 2022, 01:49:04 PM
In an interesting development, Japan has suddenly gotten much more aggressive about the Kuril islands, claiming they have sovereignty over them.

How many troops is Russia prepared to send eastward to defend the Kurils?  Can they handle confrontations on two fronts, while being subjected to heavy sanctions?  Will they allow Japan to take the Kurils, so they can concentrate their military forces on their western front?

How many other countries are going to start feeling ballsy in confronting Russia over disputed territory?  How many fronts can Russia effectively fight on?

How will sanctions affect Russia's ability to operate in Syria?  Will they walk away, so they can use those forces back in Ukraine or mainland Russia?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 10, 2022, 03:14:03 PM
There’s a reason why you’re not at the table of international diplomacy. ☝🏻
LOL. You mean like Denis Kireev? Ukrainian negotiator shot in the street by the SBU on suspicion of being a 'traitor'?

Not sure if it's related by Dmitry Demyanenko, former deputy head of the Main Directorate of the SBU was shot dead in a shootout with police.

I'm sure those stories are plastered all over mainstream media.

Prices are going to increase, that's what will happen. 

Belarus is not even in the top 10 in fertilizer production.   But I happen to know that Saskatchewan, which produces most of Canada's fertilizer (Canada is number 5 in the world, in terms of production) can produce a lot more.  Drive through the middle of the province, and you can see potash literally for miles on either side of the road, and that potash is not being mined or collected. 

Again, I am unworried personally about food security, although prices will continue to rise (they have, significantly, already).
Belarus is a major potash exporter. Russia has just announced a ban of fertilizer to 'unfriendly' countries. Ukraine has announced a ban on wheat exports. Russia may do the same.

You may not have concerns about food security but a lot of the world does. Turkey has asked the Ukrainian government not to accept Turkish foreign fighters. Funny about that, antagonize the Russians with drone sales, now doing a back peddle because Putin could cause food riots in Turkey. Not so good for Erdogan.

You are not forecasting how bad this is going to be for a lot of people in the west. There will be civil unrest in some countries - it's what sparked the Arab spring. Increased energy prices will result in more expensive everything, particularly food.

I suspect if women and children are used as shields and the civilian population is mass executed, the West will intervene.  There is only so far it can be pushed.
LOL, no. Nuclear war is not something Washington wants, and it's UKRAINIAN military using civilians as human shields.

The word of the day - resilience. Russia will be far more resilient than the west with economic collapse. As Krimster has pointed out Russia has been preparing this for years. The USA has been so badly caught with its pants down that US-funded biolabs have been discovered. Nuland didn't look too comfortable handling those questions, LOL!

Good to see the old goat is back, I had suspected Covid jumped species...

The longer the Ukrainian government holds off on a settlement, the less bargaining power they will have. The cumulative impact of sanctions on Russia will take months to have a larger impact, by then the hot conflict may well be over.

How many other countries are going to start feeling ballsy in confronting Russia over disputed territory?  How many fronts can Russia effectively fight on?
After Tokyo was fire-bombed by the USA and then 'impregnated' in Hiroshima and Nagasaki I don't think the Japanese want to seriously push the Russians. They cannot stop hypersonic missiles. It's suicide.

China will also say 'nyet' with threats to Japanese exporters, Japanese manufacturers in China, and the Sekaku islands. It may throw in an invasion of Taiwan for good measure which sends Japan back to feudal days as there will be very little they can export without Taiwanese microchips.

I appreciate that emotions may run high but a pragmatic de-escalation is the best for everyone (except for neocons and rats in Kyiv). That means Ukraine accepting Russia's non-negotiable demands.

The petrodollar is looking sicker by the day! I look forward to Russia asking for gold in payment for natural gas, LOL.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 03:19:57 PM
What kind of settlement is dismantle your military?  No sovereign nation can agree to that.


I don't believe Russians are more resilient than are Westerners.   We just have the freedom to moan about it.


My comment on potash stands.  Canada, not Belarus, is the world's largest producer and exporter of potash.   Saskatchewan has over 100 billion tonnes of potash, and Canada has the world's largest reserves.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 10, 2022, 03:52:14 PM
What kind of settlement is dismantle your military?  No sovereign nation can agree to that.
Not sure it's clicked yet but Ukraine no longer exists any more than what Russia allows. The stronger the military control, the less it will accept. What's the odds other oblasts are 'offered a referendum' on autonomy if it is forced to fight to the bloody end? And do you think such a referendum will occur without the results known in advance? I'm not advocating for this but can see the writing on the wall.

My comment on potash stands.  Canada, not Belarus, is the world's largest producer and exporter of potash.   Saskatchewan has over 100 billion tonnes of potash, and Canada has the world's largest reserves.
If you miss a planting season the harvest will be impacted. Additional supplies will not come on line in time and some farmers will go to the wall. Domestic issues may impact Canada's ability to deliver potash in greater quantities as well. You seem to have the impression that "all will be well". It's going to be a lot worse than you imagine. Not everybody is a rich lawyer in a western country.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 10, 2022, 04:11:37 PM
In an interesting development, Japan has suddenly gotten much more aggressive about the Kuril islands, claiming they have sovereignty over them.

How many troops is Russia prepared to send eastward to defend the Kurils?  Can they handle confrontations on two fronts, while being subjected to heavy sanctions?  Will they allow Japan to take the Kurils, so they can concentrate their military forces on their western front?

How many other countries are going to start feeling ballsy in confronting Russia over disputed territory?  How many fronts can Russia effectively fight on?

How will sanctions affect Russia's ability to operate in Syria?  Will they walk away, so they can use those forces back in Ukraine or mainland Russia?

The only one it takes to do so is China,and they have had good relations with Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 10, 2022, 04:39:17 PM
Not sure it's clicked yet but Ukraine no longer exists any more than what Russia allows. The stronger the military control, the less it will accept. What's the odds other oblasts are 'offered a referendum' on autonomy if it is forced to fight to the bloody end? And do you think such a referendum will occur without the results known in advance? I'm not advocating for this but can see the writing on the wall.
If you miss a planting season the harvest will be impacted. Additional supplies will not come on line in time and some farmers will go to the wall. Domestic issues may impact Canada's ability to deliver potash in greater quantities as well. You seem to have the impression that "all will be well". It's going to be a lot worse than you imagine. Not everybody is a rich lawyer in a western country.

There is a lot of middle ground between the sky is falling ,and all will be well.

4 of 5  US states ,  Canada and Mexico can feed a lot more of the.world than is being put forth here.
Oil costs for all factors of that do play a role.
The wests production can increase significantly over 12 months.
That's just as quick as Russia can address its logistical nightmare it will be mired in soon.
The decline for everyone will not be equal ,and Russia stock piling gold may pull.them.thru, or  may not.

This entirety is insane.

However I do not see Russia's strength at the negotiating table getting stronger over time,I see it.weakening .
There is trouble brewing in Kazakhstan again,easily can be  stirred and destabilized  ,same as some other places.
 Obviously there are counter opinions.

Being mired in a war with 10 to 40 million hostiles, continually funded ones, is far different than other scenarios they have been in. This could make those seem.like a child's  play date.
It's a nightmare for any military force.to control.and has seldom been long term successful in modern history.

 I ask myself  why the 14th battalion  russian army hasn't left Transnistia? To help invade Ukraine and cut supplies lines from europe? Perfect strategic location to do so and part of  why Russia pours 20 million euro.into.it.every year.
 In a big scale invasion that's a bit
Odd  to.leave on the.table isnt it?

The black sea is hard to control,you have a nato member holding the keys.
And those keys.are easily tossed down the well.


Russia should have worried about China, Georgia and turkey ,not Ukraine
Just my opinion

 I think there is a lot more going on here.







Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on March 10, 2022, 04:51:07 PM

faux pas, just for you a picture of my Gen II Russian hand canon, aka, 26.5 mm flare gun
note the brass insert I machined myself to insert 12 ga shotgun shells, which thanks to Marina Butina are available in all Russian sporting goods stores
I load my own shells using about 50% more powder than standard shells, and use 4mm tungsten welding rods available in all welding shops cut to 10mm lengths
it's for very close range work, but your victim's face will be completely unrecognizable even from dental records should thery exist


Inventive. That could kill a room full of peeps LOL. What kind of shot in the shells?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 10, 2022, 05:00:27 PM

Inventive. That could kill a room full of peeps LOL. What kind of shot in the shells?
Looks like his *shot* is shrapnel,  the.4mm x 10mm .tungston rods.?

Since I TIG weld almost  daily,I'm appalled at the  use of this nice commodity, when pretty much anything else would do at shotgun range

🤷‍♂️
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
it's laborius cutting the rods, but it does considerable more damage than regular birdshot
since all shell purchases in Russia are traceable, having homemade components, including wads makes it more difficult for militsa
my other weapon of choice is a sawed off "Baikal",
after WWII, the Soviets brought back from Germany a complete shotgun factory and made them in Russia
these are cheap, universally avaialble, so you can have a "straw buyer" get it outside your locale, and the black market price will be about 1000 USD which is a little over double retail with ser # filed off, so very affordable and these are overbuilt, impossible to blow up with the crazy powder charges I use, but both of these are VERY loud!!!
it's better to buy an older used one, than a new one where the sales record will be on top of the pile instead of on the bottom, ponelle?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2022, 06:06:53 PM
Not sure it's clicked yet but Ukraine no longer exists any more than what Russia allows.


That will not be forever, though, unless Russia plans on executing 40 million individuals.  Long term, Russia cannot sustain this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 06:25:37 PM
" I ask myself  why the 14th battalion  russian army hasn't left Transnistia? "

because 1/4 the population is composed of Ukrainian citizens, and they need divisions not battalions for Odesa encirclement
Russia will in the near future enter a general mobilization phase, so they'll have all the manpower they need

they've accomplished two goals thus far:
1. ropened norther crimean canal
2. landbridge from Donbas to Crimea

todo list
1. encircle Odesa and starve defenders and  completely cut-off Black Sea
2. same for Kyiv

at that point, there is no more Ukrainian state, just partisans fighting
and war will enter next phase the holodomoracaust


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on March 10, 2022, 06:32:42 PM
Looks like his *shot* is shrapnel,  the.4mm x 10mm .tungston rods.?

Since I TIG weld almost  daily,I'm appalled at the  use of this nice commodity, when pretty much anything else would do at shotgun range

🤷‍♂️
 

Yeah I kind'a got that from his post but was still a bit fuzzy as to was he including any shot in the shells.

it's laborius cutting the rods, but it does considerable more damage than regular birdshot
since all shell purchases in Russia are traceable, having homemade components, including wads makes it more difficult for militsa
my other weapon of choice is a sawed off "Baikal",
after WWII, the Soviets brought back from Germany a complete shotgun factory and made them in Russia
these are cheap, universally avaialble, so you can have a "straw buyer" get it outside your locale, and the black market price will be about 1000 USD which is a little over double retail with ser # filed off, so very affordable and these are overbuilt, impossible to blow up with the crazy powder charges I use, but both of these are VERY loud!!!

Well it really depends on the damage you hope to inflict. Welding rods does seem quite laborious and coming out of that little canon will go in every direction. Assuming you can't get slugs or buckshot, do you know have a resource for ball bearings?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2022, 06:46:03 PM
What kind of settlement is dismantle your military?  No sovereign nation can agree to that.

An offensive type military isn't always necessary for nations to exist and do alright.    There are a few nations that haven't a military.  Panama and Costa Rica are notable.   Also after defeat Japan didn't have a military. 

 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 10, 2022, 06:51:33 PM

That will not be forever, though, unless Russia plans on executing 40 million individuals.  Long term, Russia cannot sustain this.
How long have other empires sustained control? I seem to recall the British held India for quite some time.

There may be a 'democratic' approach to autonomy or absorption in to the Russian Federation such as with Crimea, LNR and DNR for former parts of Ukraine. These areas will end up like Chechnya, ruled by a warlord but loyal to Moscow. From what I've heard Russia's looking to control everything east of Zhytomyr.

Whatever remains of Ukraine will have no armed forces. Any violent reprisals will be deemed "terrorism" and dealt with accordingly. Putin's more likely to deliver the 'Grozny treatment' to areas that are anti-Russian. I've read that Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi tattoos are being summarily executed (something that should be denounced outright). They won't mess around. But it will be far less than 40 million.

I ask myself  why the 14th battalion  russian army hasn't left Transnistia? To help invade Ukraine and cut supplies lines from europe? Perfect strategic location to do so and part of  why Russia pours 20 million euro.into.it.every year.
 In a big scale invasion that's a bit
Odd  to.leave on the.table isnt it?
The Russians want the encircle Odesa and hope the Ukrainian government capitulates without having to fight for it. If it does it will blockade the city until it submits. The eastern flank is not ready either. No doubt it is viewed similarly to how the Germans viewed Leningrad. They don't want to destroy it.

Once the war has 'ended' Turkey will have to re-open the Bosporus, else face the wrath of Russia. It's willing to poke a bear but only to a point. Food security is a big concern for Erdogan, Turkey are heavily reliant on food from Eastern Europe.

The truth is somewhere between Russian propaganda and Ukrainian/western fairy tales. Russia is well advanced in taking the country but has had setbacks greater than it is willing to admit. The fact that high ranking officials are getting knocked off by other officials is a solid signal all is not well in Kyiv.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2022, 06:56:47 PM
Not sure it's clicked yet but Ukraine no longer exists any more than what Russia allows. The stronger the military control, the less it will accept. What's the odds other oblasts are 'offered a referendum' on autonomy if it is forced to fight to the bloody end? And do you think such a referendum will occur without the results known in advance? I'm not advocating for this but can see the writing on the wall.
 
Original demands from Russia may be seen as more doable as times go on.  Like you mentioned, those demands have a good chance of increasing as more costs build up.  Prior to all of this happening it may have taken even less than the 4 demands to appease Russia. 

Rightwing talk radio seems to be getting caught up in the biolabs thing now in Ukraine.   I'm not bought into that just yet.  Talk radio has a way of exaggerating things and or omitting important details.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2022, 07:06:00 PM


Russia of course has China on its doorstep also as a power of strength but China is not seen as an opposing force, at least not so much as yet. China's focus is expansion into the South China sea region and beyond. China is also at odds with the US, UK, NATO somewhat so they have similar issues.

 
Some people like to say how China is going to be Russia's enemy....china recently said something like russia and china's friendship has 'no limits' (sounded a bit gay), but the sentiment is understood.   People try to sabotage their friendship but I don't think that is going to work, given the types of things said in the west about china recently, in addition to the sanctions.    It is in China's interest to stick with Russia this time around. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 10, 2022, 07:07:08 PM
Belarus is a major potash exporter. Russia has just announced a ban of fertilizer to 'unfriendly' countries.

If you miss a planting season the harvest will be impacted. Additional supplies will not come on line in time and some farmers will go to the wall. Domestic issues may impact Canada's ability to deliver potash in greater quantities as well.

What farmer is going to miss a planting season because of a lack of potash?  You seem to think that it's a critical fertilizer.  It's not.

Potash is used by plants for stalks.  Stalks normally aren't harvested, so the potassium gets returned to the soil and reused.  Normally, a farmer should need very little potash.  The times you see a farmer needing potash would be instances like a field that floods in the winter, and all the stalks get washed down the river.  Or someone who makes and sells hay year after year.  The hay strips the field of the nutrients and nothing gets put back.

A lack of potash on the market is not going to have a big impact on farmers.  They can still plant and get a harvest.  The yield might be a little lower, but they won't lose a crop. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 10, 2022, 07:10:11 PM

China will also say 'nyet' with threats to Japanese exporters, Japanese manufacturers in China, and the Sekaku islands. It may throw in an invasion of Taiwan for good measure which sends Japan back to feudal days as there will be very little they can export without Taiwanese microchips.


What about the 64 villages area near Sakhalin island?  That area is claimed by both Russia and China.  Russia appears to be at a moment of weakness right now.  China could tell Russia that if Russia wants any Chinese help, Russia has to drop their claims to the disputed area, and they must also support China if China tries to take Taiwan.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 10, 2022, 07:18:11 PM
Assuming you can't get slugs or buckshot, do you know have a resource for ball bearings?

When would someone ever be in a situation where they couldn't get buckshot?  It's not that hard to get your hands on junk car batteries.  Bust them open.  They are full of lead plates.  Lead melts at like 640 degrees IIRC.  You can melt it over a campfire.  Slowly pour the melted lead into a bucket of water.  That's how they used to make shot in the olden days.  The size of the lead balls varies depending on how fast you pour it into the water, and sometimes it will be tear drop shaped, but it works just fine in shotgun shells.

A stack of dimes in shotgun shells will cut a 55 gallon barrel in half.

If you need slugs, but don't have any available, if you can get the old cardboard shotgun shells, ring them and they can be used as slugs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 07:46:28 PM
Tungsten is nearly 75% denser than lead and 2.5 times that of steel, it has tremendous inertia when it strikes a target

based on my testing, the damage is twice what a normal shotgun shell will do, once you go tungsten you’ll never go back!

this is a short range weapon kinda like a derringer, it works just fine, I know all about how to make bird shot, the method you presented can only create tiny #7 sized shot, (check it out on youtube, if you'd like to see for yourself) each tungsten rod weighs about double what a piece of double 00 buckshot weighs, #7 shot weighs about 1.5 grain each, my rods weigh about 7 grams each

only real drawbacks are the short range, a sprained wrist, and ringing in my ears, but the “other guy” will not ever feel a thing, very humane

this is "maya Natasha" with a lightly chopped Baikal

Dimes are kinda hard to find in Russia, and 1 ruble coins are just a little too big for a 12 ga and so are 50 kopec, also they’re made of steel, just too light…  you could go with 10 kopec, but they don’t penetrate very well  if they hit flat side first, and made of steel as well, nowhere near as devastating as the tungsten rod approach, not even close
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 08:18:30 PM
A big covid wave went through the Russian military after new year and Orthodox Christmas, some units had 1 in 5 soldiers out sick at the same time, not many deaths, but a lotta sick soldiers, who were only given a week of bed time and then had to go back to light duty, a lot of these didn’t completely recover and have reduced lung capacity now, this has had a bad morale effect along with the living conditions (covid is just one of the negative conditions)

I wonder how Ukrainian military and civilians are dealing with this, their living conditions seem to involve a lot of close contact with unmasked people, covid is not over with in Russia and Ukraine, far from it,

Russia just recently announced that all health facilities in Russia must submit a list of all medical personnel, whom the government intends to start conscripting for the war effort, further hampering all the medical problems within Russia
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 10, 2022, 08:54:55 PM
Da ,koneshno

Nice double!

Welding gun Tungsten is a tough  to cut,surprised you dont find a sharp edge like a vice jaw edge,and give it a tap ,breaks easy, not cleanly but doesn't matter in this use?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2022, 09:33:58 PM
russians have a tool for cutting and sharpening rods, I assume in USA as well, but I never checked it out cuz, in USA I can just buy tungsten shot of any size and is what I use
if I ever go back to russia, I won't be in bizness anymore, as I have retired, and just work on my hobbies now...
if I do ever return, and that basically depends on whether my children and their spouses return, I  hopefully won't really need such things

I am the bow who has launched his fair daughters like arrows into the heart of the Russian oligarchy
thanks to my efforts "my Russians" moved their money out, and their net worth is now much higher,  than before the war

when the big reset happens in Russia, they will be at the top, or they will continue to live on the outside, time will tell all...



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 10, 2022, 09:48:32 PM
Bloomberg News --------------
Quote
Sanctions leveled on Russia will ultimately cause more damage to the U.S. and its allies, a research group that advises Chinese President Xi Jinping said, as Beijing weighs how much backing to give its close diplomatic partner.

Russia has largely adapted to dealing with punitive financial measures since 2014, when it was penalized for seizing Crimea, Ma Xue, an associate researcher at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, wrote in an article published on social media Tuesday. U.S. and European allies will wind up suffering for supporting Ukraine, said Ma, whose research body is linked to the Ministry of State Security, China’s civilian intelligence agency.


Ma’s assessment contrasts with most early reactions to the measures, which included cutting off the Russian central bank from its pile of foreign exchange. That move sent the ruble tumbling (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/central-bank-sanctions-breach-fortress-russia-halt-intervention) the most since the 1990s. A slew of foreign companies, including BP Plc and Shell Plc, are leaving the world’s No. 11 economy over the financial and reputational risks, and Russian industrial-metal exports have sunk (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/russian-metal-exports-slide-as-sanctions-hit-commodity-financing) as commodity buyers and financiers pull back.
China has so far refused to either criticize or endorse Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, and abstained from a UN Security Council vote on a resolution condemning the move. On Tuesday, Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin repeated China’s call for dialogue between the two sides. Cutting off Russian banks from the SWIFT (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-26/u-s-weighs-sanctions-on-russia-s-central-bank-over-ukraine) money messaging system will wind up hurting Europe roughly as much, according to Ma, whose research body is linked to the Ministry of State Security, China’s civilian intelligence agency. Ma added that the U.S. could also incur major costs in the future providing economic and humanitarian aid to allies, and that Europe could be destabilized by large numbers of fleeing Ukrainians.

“If the Ukraine refugee crisis is not properly handled, this will be conducive for Russia to sow hatred and sabotage NATO,” Ma wrote. “The fierce debate on refugee problems inside Europe could also damage its unity at crucial moments.”
Why SWIFT Ban Is Such a Potent Sanction on Russia: QuickTake (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/why-swift-s-global-payments-are-sanctions-pain-point-quicktake)
Still, China could provide some support for Russia to keep the punishments from biting too hard. Chinese companies are expected to scoop up (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-01/shunned-russian-oil-may-get-scooped-up-by-hungry-chinese-buyers) discounted Russian oil if sanctions deter other buyers, traders have said. It could also provide a financial lifeline because the People’s Bank of China has a multi-billion dollar currency swap (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/sanctions-on-russia-puts-focus-on-china-s-central-bank) with its counterpart in Moscow, allowing the nations to provide liquidity to businesses so they can continue trading.
Russia has also worked to remove the dollar’s hold over its financial system in recent years -- selling most of its U.S. Treasuries in 2018 -- as it girded for potential sanctions.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-01/china-spy-agency-s-research-body-sees-russia-surviving-sanctions

Perhaps sanctions are backfiring. Putin's approval rate has jumped to 71% [so reported] The skinny is--That mean mean evil west.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 11, 2022, 09:25:42 AM
Rightwing talk radio seems to be getting caught up in the biolabs thing now in Ukraine.   I'm not bought into that just yet.  Talk radio has a way of exaggerating things and or omitting important details.

Fathertime!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 11, 2022, 10:03:39 AM
I was one of the people who endured the H5N1 outbreak in Crimea in 2006
my oldest daughter got sick, and I totally panicked and I took her to the hospital in Simpheropol
where they weren’t able to determine what she was sick with, because no one at all in Crimea could test for H5N1 even in humans, or in chickens

as Ukraine was becoming an emerging location for this virus and Ukraine had no technical resources to deal with it, and AT THAT TIME, the USA actually understood that viruses don’t respect international boundaries and whatever happened in Ukraine wasn’t going to stay there and could come to the USA, they helped Ukraine set up this kind of lab(s) for testing for highly pathogenic diseases that could end up being a global threat
and by the way, these labs are open to international inspection, it'd be IMPOSSIBLE to conceal some kind of biowar program there
the only ones repeating these lies are "THE USUAL SUSPECTS"  who also spread Covid lies...

remember when the USA had an “Office of Pandemic Preparedness” but “somebody” shut it down?…
hmmmmmm…..

if you want to read about an ACTUAL biowar lab leak then checkout:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 11, 2022, 10:40:35 AM
Previous gossip was that Belarus soldiers refused to move into Ukraine.

So now Russia bombs Belarus.

Will this be believed by Belarus soldiers so that they will now attack Ukraine?

Was Lukashenko complicit in this ?  i.e. he agreed with Putin to let Russia bomb his own people.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 11, 2022, 11:22:35 AM
looks like they "killed Fritz"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujQ-nMc0WGE
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 11, 2022, 11:47:04 AM
Well... the Russian Military analyst in Moscow for Novaya Gazetta reckons Ukraine is winning the war.


He's on Sky News now and says Russia is running out of reserves.,and their pounding of cities is a sign of increasing desperation from Putin.


He said that the war will drag on but by the fall Russia will be in a desperate situation...and so will Putin.




His name is Pavel Felgenhauer.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2022, 02:16:11 PM
This is an interesting read.

http://www.igorsushko.com/2022/03/translation-of-alleged-analysis-of.html?m=1 (http://www.igorsushko.com/2022/03/translation-of-alleged-analysis-of.html?m=1)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 11, 2022, 02:32:57 PM
This is an interesting read.

http://www.igorsushko.com/2022/03/translation-of-alleged-analysis-of.html?m=1 (http://www.igorsushko.com/2022/03/translation-of-alleged-analysis-of.html?m=1)


Yes, very interesting. And that link is only one of four, or maybe five now, letters from a purported FSB agent. The first three of those letters are reported to have been verified.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2022, 02:40:03 PM
Translated from alleged FSB sources, who forwarded their letters to Vladimir Osechkin, a Russian human rights activists currently in exile in France.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2022, 03:19:28 PM
Perspective of an American who was in Chernihiv.


http://youtu.be/QOOjxCBB5Ws
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 11, 2022, 05:17:31 PM

Rightwing talk radio seems to be getting caught up in the biolabs thing now in Ukraine.   I'm not bought into that just yet.  Talk radio has a way of exaggerating things and or omitting important details.
If there is no US involvement in any biolab stuff then how does the State Department know about it?
US undersecretary of state acknowledges there are biological warfare labs in Ukraine
Quote
On Tuesday, Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland stated before a Senate hearing that “biological research facilities” have been operating in Ukraine, in response to a question from Senator Marco Rubio (Republican of Florida) about the presence of chemical or biological weapons in the country.
While she said nothing about US involvement in the labs, Nuland rapidly shifted her testimony during the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing to efforts by the State Department to “prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces.” She went on, in a carefully orchestrated exchange with Rubio, to say that if there were a biological or chemical weapons attack inside Ukraine, it would “no doubt” be carried out by Russia.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html
Where is Tony Fauci? Grab him by the ear and make him talk. I would :-\
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 11, 2022, 05:34:52 PM
If there is no US involvement in any biolab stuff then how does the State Department know about it?
US undersecretary of state acknowledges there are biological warfare labs in Ukrainehttp://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html (http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html)
Where is Tony Fauci? Grab him by the ear and make him talk. I would :-\

Words matter ....

The presence of biological research labs is NOT the same as "biological warfare labs." Several days ago Russian military reported the discovery of labs containing 30 biological compounds in Ukraine. They also claim some of those compounds might have been useful in development of biological weapons, but no evidence of that use has been presented. They (Russia) also claim the labs were secretly-funded by the US, a claim  easily disproved by a cursory review of the US Embassy's website.



Link to a fact check by BBC News .... http://www.bbc.com/news/60711705
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 11, 2022, 09:40:18 PM
"In fact, now there are two people left who absolutely directly advocate the continuation of the war on the territory of Ukraine - Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu."

http://war.segodnya.ua/war/vtorzhenie/voynu-protiv-ukrainy-hotyat-prodolzhat-tolko-dvoe-glava-voennoy-razvedki-1608333.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 11, 2022, 10:52:19 PM
No sane country puts bio warfare labs on.the border of the enemy in a shared culture,people, language.  Its silly to do so for a weapon that needs no development in proximity to its  target, and increased chance of it being discovered.
I still don't buy this for a second.
Research labs,sure.
Funding for security and research from.usa and china and who knows who else sure ,its normal.
Covid pushed billions into that industry.

Meanwhile the hot water lines where hit and no Nikolaev has no heat

My MIL and SIL are.still.there,temps in.the 20Fs
:(

 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 11, 2022, 11:41:03 PM
No sane country puts bio warfare labs on.the border of the enemy in a shared culture,people, language.  Its silly to do so for a weapon that needs no deve6in proximity to its  target, and increased chance of it being discovered.
I still don't buy this for a second.
Research labs,sure.
Funding for security and research from.usa and china and who knows who else sure ,its normal.
Covid pushed billions into that industry.

Meanwhile the hot water lines where hit and no Nikolaev has no heat

My MIL and SIL are.still.there,temps in.the 20Fs
 :(

Russia's claim of bio warfare labs in combination with confirmed reports of bio/chem warfare suits being brought into the country by Russian troops looks more and more like Putin's plan is to create another false pretext for expansion of the campaign to include chemical weapons. Whether that constitutes a 'red line' for Western powers remains to be seen.


Really sorry about your wife's family. I have friends in/near Kyiv and a few elsewhere. Those in Kyiv are still able to send periodic messages when their power is not interrupted. The ones elsewhere are really spotty and some have not responded in days.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 11, 2022, 11:54:12 PM
The propaganda machine is in full swing.  I think it has been a great idea for the US to divulge what might otherwise be deemed classified information in a preemptive manner.

Still, many can't seem to get past the headlines or lack the skill set to research further.  It's really not that difficult.  Internet research should be a required subject beginning in elementary school.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 12, 2022, 12:41:39 AM
If there is no US involvement in any biolab stuff then how does the State Department know about it?

Super easy to answer, straight from the people who renovated the BSL-3 lab.  AFAIK there are no BSL-4 labs in UA.

http://www.bv.com/projects/state-art-diagnostics-laboratory-helps-make-world-safer

Quote
The BSL-3 laboratory was specifically designed and constructed to support work with especially dangerous pathogens that can be naturally occurring or introduced through a bioterrorism attack. It serves as a central location for research, consolidation and training on the proper handling of dangerous pathogens. The lab also provides the Ukrainian Ministry of Health a safe environment to confirm diagnosis of suspected dangerous pathogens, enhancing public health while deterring bioterrorism.

Definitions of BSL levels here:  http://www.labmanager.com/lab-health-and-safety/biosafety-levels-1-2-3-4-19123
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2022, 05:00:36 AM
Reports from Ukrainian captured cities over the fpadt few days seems to be showing them to be allowed to keep the Ukrainian Flag on Government/Mayor's buildings. This to me suggests that the Russians are not wanting to be seen as occupiers by hoisting the Russian Flag. It also makes me think that post Russian victory they will set Ukraine up as a semi-autonomous state with a Pro-Russian government using their current Ukrainian Flag. In that way Russia won't create a symbol of resistance which to rally around, the Ukrainian Flag which Ukrainians identify with.

Bit by bit the Russian Bear seems to be strangling the life out of Ukraine. It's a slow process but one where I think gradually the Russians will grind down Ukrainian defenders in the cities. In Mariupol the situation is getting desperate and I think will reflect Russia's strategy in all Ukrainian cities. In Kyiv the city is now encircled, with Russian armour having spread out yesterday. I can see Kyiv going pretty much like Mariupol. Nikolaev also and at some point the Russians will likely get towards Odesa.

Putin is calling on Syrian fighters to join Russia and is offering a salary of ten times their normal pay to fight. That is probably in preference to pulling more of his own troops over from other parts of Russia. Apparently infantry may be more used to attack in Kyiv now with Russian tanks likely being kept outside the city to keep it surrounded.

Although Ukrainians have fought bravely I think they will unfortunately succumb to Russian tactics of surround and conquer over time. Here is an update on the present situation:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/kyiv-ready-to-fight-as-russian-forces-close-in-ukraine-capital

Bitterly cold temperatures throughout Ukraine at the moment.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 12, 2022, 07:34:08 AM
Zelensky has said today that 1,300 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed so far. :(


He also said that at least 500 Russian soldiers surrendered yesterday.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2022, 07:57:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4

For the moment, I'll just read and listen critically, without making up my mind. 

It seems on one hand right wing talk radio is promoting the weaponized biolabs as being legit...but logic suggests it can't be accurate.  Why would an already threatened Ukraine give Russia such a legitimate reason to invade...?   

For right wing radio hosts, it seems poking Biden in the eye is more important than reporting with accuracy the events in Ukraine.   On the other hand, Nuland didn't really answer the questions completely and seems to be hiding something as usual...

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2022, 08:00:20 AM
Previous gossip was that Belarus soldiers refused to move into Ukraine.

So now Russia bombs Belarus.

Will this be believed by Belarus soldiers so that they will now attack Ukraine?

Was Lukashenko complicit in this ?  i.e. he agreed with Putin to let Russia bomb his own people.

I haven't seen anything much about this story.  Are you sure it is actually a real story... 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2022, 08:04:49 AM
Russia is considering striking back by nationalizing all the companies that stop doing business in Russia.  Seizing their assets.  The west is condemning Russia of course...although Russian certain assets are being seized across the globe.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 12, 2022, 10:09:22 AM
New Reports Suggest Russian Losses in Ukraine Are Absolutely Catastrophic
Quote
How many Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine? It’s tough to know. We have Ukrainian sources saying their land has become a killing field for Russian forces, with at least 11,000 killed since the start of the war. It is true that the Russian offensive has become stuck in the mud. Tanks are running out of gas. That 40-mile Russian convoy outside of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv has yet to move. What’s going on? Other estimates of the Russian war dead are in the 4,000-6,000 range which is probably a tad more accurate. Still, that’s more Russians killed in less than two weeks in Ukraine than all American losses during the entirety of the Iraq War and occupation. The Ukrainians are holding on, mounting a dogged defense against a superior adversary. We’ll see how long that lasts after the Russians clinch air superiority which they have so far been unable to do.
MORE----
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/03/12/ukrainian-killing-field-belarusian-hospitals-are-reportedly-overflowing-with-rus-n2604464?utm_campaign=rightrailsticky1
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2022, 10:41:38 AM
Due to being cut-off from SWIFT
Russian companies are switching in droves to the Chinese “Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) “, and in addition they are switching to a Chinese payment card “Union Pay”

however…
in order to hedge against the falling ruble, the Chinese forex rate is STEEPLY discounted against the CURRENT ruble rate by about 20%, which makes such purchases exorbitant…

Russia still has quite a bit of dollar reserves in the Chinese banking system, that and the oil trade are the only things keeping the economy afloat…

this approach is going to be inefficient, not only because of price, but also delivery (which will add to the price), because Chines products will be delivered to Vladivostok instead of through Europe

Russian economy will be "jhoppa" by summer

Russia has only two levers against the West, oil and nukes…
after they pushed on the oil lever all that they can (China can’t be very happy about this and rising grain prices) they will switch to nukes…

I would expect a demonstration over some uninhabited region of the planet which will be displayed all over the Western media as a warning

Russia will also work to disrupt western weapon deliveries, so expect western casualties

PS, League of Soldier's Mothers, which had been VERY vocal about Russian military in the past, is strangely silent in regards to the current "Special Military Operation" (remember you cannot say war in Russia) this tells you the level of "social control" in Russia

http://ksmrus.ru/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 12, 2022, 12:21:10 PM
Third Russian general killed in Ukraine in eight days: Commander of armored unit is the latest senior officer to be claimed dead by Ukrainian forces.
Major General Andrei Kolesnikov of the 29th Combined Arms Army is Russia's latest high profile casualty. His death follows Major General Vitaly Gerasimov and Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky
This comes as a care home for disabled near Kharkiv, north east Ukraine, was hit by Russian shelling, local officials say.  63 of the home's 330 residents have been evacuated, while fate of the other 267 is currently unknown.

It is unusual for Generals to be in harms way, so it is thought they are having to move to the front because lower ranked Russian officers are unable or unwilling to make decisions or are fearful of moving forward and that many of the troops are wanting to quit.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 12, 2022, 01:38:16 PM
Words matter ....
Link to a fact check by BBC News .... http://www.bbc.com/news/60711705 (http://www.bbc.com/news/60711705)
The State Dep't lady failed to try and correct the language...the Senator failed to pursue the language...and the wsws news article assumed the language...yes--words do matter.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 12, 2022, 02:30:59 PM
Reports from Ukrainian captured cities over the fpadt few days seems to be showing them to be allowed to keep the Ukrainian Flag on Government/Mayor's buildings. This to me suggests that the Russians are not wanting to be seen as occupiers by hoisting the Russian Flag. It also makes me think that post Russian victory they will set Ukraine up as a semi-autonomous state with a Pro-Russian government using their current Ukrainian Flag. In that way Russia won't create a symbol of resistance which to rally around, the Ukrainian Flag which Ukrainians identify with.

Bit by bit the Russian Bear seems to be strangling the life out of Ukraine. It's a slow process but one where I think gradually the Russians will grind down Ukrainian defenders in the cities. In Mariupol the situation is getting desperate and I think will reflect Russia's strategy in all Ukrainian cities. In Kyiv the city is now encircled, with Russian armour having spread out yesterday. I can see Kyiv going pretty much like Mariupol. Nikolaev also and at some point the Russians will likely get towards Odesa.

Putin is calling on Syrian fighters to join Russia and is offering a salary of ten times their normal pay to fight. That is probably in preference to pulling more of his own troops over from other parts of Russia. Apparently infantry may be more used to attack in Kyiv now with Russian tanks likely being kept outside the city to keep it surrounded.

Although Ukrainians have fought bravely I think they will unfortunately succumb to Russian tactics of surround and conquer over time. Here is an update on the present situation:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/kyiv-ready-to-fight-as-russian-forces-close-in-ukraine-capital (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/kyiv-ready-to-fight-as-russian-forces-close-in-ukraine-capital)

Bitterly cold temperatures throughout Ukraine at the moment.


There are 16,000  Syrians who want to fight for Russia against Ukraine and Putin said that they will fight for free....he has been known to lie of course.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 12, 2022, 02:44:56 PM
Interview with Stephen Kotkin, a well regarded historian.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/stephen-kotkin-putin-russia-ukraine-stalin
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2022, 03:58:32 PM
From reports it looks like there may be a fair chance that chemical weapons may be used in Russia's assault on Kyiv. My guess is that Ukraine has put a lot of its troops in the northern cities knowing that Russia would place a lot of its attack there and try to take Kyiv quickly. I think that is why apart from other reasons that a lot of Russia's advance has been slow in the north of Ukraine as the cities there haven't been falling quickly or easily likely due to a lot of Ukrainian troops being placed in each one. The rest of Ukraine's forces mostly being placed in eastern Ukrainian cities down to Mariupol to stop the Russian advance sweeping across the country from that direction.

Kharkiv for example hasn't yet fallen despite it being very near the border, much nearer than Kyiv, just over the border pretty much. That's likely due to a very large number of Ukrainian troops being placed there. Thinking probably was again they need to hold the Russians back there to avoid them sweeping down across the country and cutting supply lines of many other cities in central Ukraine and possibly taking them.

Kherson seems to have been the one city where the Ukrainian government messed up, it held out a while but then fell, being in the south just up from Crimea it's a pretty strategic city. If there were some troops there they either were killed, fled or went into hiding. Reports from Kherson say that there were never any troops there just 50 - 80 civilians who took up the defence and we're all killed. If anywhere near true then it's a pretty big mess up on troop deployment as even putting a few hundred to a couple of thousand troops there would have helped them to hold out longer.

My guess is that Putin may well use chemical weapons to attack troops in Kyiv and elsewhere as he will probably likely see it as just another way to get rid of them other than the bullet and probably more quickly and mean less of his troops are lost is my thinking. Would be interesting to hear other forum members thoughts on this?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 13, 2022, 03:09:04 AM
Russian missile strike less than 15 miles from the Polish border at Yavoriv today.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 13, 2022, 10:07:30 AM
Yahoo News is reporting that Putin has arrested the head of the FSB, Sergey Beseda and his deputy, Anatoly Bolyukh.

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-apos-reported-arrest-russian-022103562.html

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 13, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
Yahoo News is reporting that Putin has arrested the head of the FSB, Sergey Beseda and his deputy, Anatoly Bolyukh.

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-apos-reported-arrest-russian-022103562.html

The article also mentioned that FSB raided the homes of 20 of their own agents in attempt to determine who has been giving info to journalists.

Probably one of the guys is the one Boe and someone else here posted about recently.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 13, 2022, 10:55:31 AM
The article also mentioned that FSB raided the homes of 20 of their own agents in attempt to determine who has been giving info to journalists.

Probably one of the guys is the one Boe and someone else here posted about recently.
Blank
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2022, 11:10:33 AM

There are 16,000  Syrians who want to fight for Russia against Ukraine and Putin said that they will fight for free....he has been known to lie of course.

Well apparently CB about 20,000 Rambo's have gone to fight for Ukraine each one capable of taking on the whole Russian army and winning the war single handedly ;D

Many I guess will be in Kiev already by now awaiting the impending Russian assault on the city.

Some unfortunately looks like they may have not made it if Russian claims are to be believed about 180 of them on the missile strike on the training base near the Russian border:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/13/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-putin-zelensky-kyiv/

Guys if you don't subscribe like I don't then on a mobile just hold your finger on the mobile screen and keep it there but at the same time just keep steadily scrolling with your finger in contact with the screen at all times. Use your other finger to take over when your first finger near the top of the screen. That way it stops the subscribe message block appearing which stops you from reading the article and you get to read the whole article for free :D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 13, 2022, 12:44:53 PM
This is an online diary of a Kyiv resident.

http://www.reddit.com/user/Decent-Stretch4762/comments/t14avb/diary_from_kyiv/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Noch1 on March 13, 2022, 03:19:27 PM
This is an online diary of a Kyiv resident.

http://www.reddit.com/user/Decent-Stretch4762/comments/t14avb/diary_from_kyiv/
Incredible
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 13, 2022, 08:32:59 PM
Another good article

http://uscnpm.org/2022/03/12/hu-wei-russia-ukraine-war-china-choice/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2022, 09:19:00 PM


Did you guys believe the media and the American government who initially called the biolabs mis/disinformation? Since they can't hide it anymore, they downplay it. Don't be duped again.

Of course the biolabs are funded by the US government besides private organizations like the SOROS foundation. The media is pure propaganda. The truth can easily be found even on Google, which buries anything that runs against the current narrative.

Here is a 2005 news article stating Obama was involved in getting Ukraine money to create biolabs to handle biological weapons so yes, they are level 4 and can handle the most dangerous pathogens known to man. They are working with military grade biological weapons stating it's for research to benefit mankind. If Putin did and said that, would you believe him? I don't believe the American government. They intentionally put Ukraine in danger using them as a playground for their provocative projects. Obama was also involved in getting funding to China to experiment with Coronaviruses. America has no business outsourcing experiments with the most dangerous pathogens known to man to any country, especially those full of corruption.

http://media.nti.org/pdfs/148_2.pdf

Victoria Nuland from the State Dept. and she was Obama's instrument to fuel the Orange Revolution in Ukraine put out a statement our government is worried about Russia getting their hands on the biolabs. Why? Probably because they're level 4 and probably Russia will obtain evidence that our government doesn't want released to the world. In the video in link below, her body language and voice shows she's very worried.

http://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/1501336793941258240?s=21

I'm not for the war but Putin has a right to get involved in making sure weapons grade pathogens aren't being manufactured next door.


How do you guys like those high gas prices making Russian richer funding the war in Ukraine? A barrel of oil was little over $20 at one time in 2020. Now it's 5-6 times as much. So what if a few nations boycott and Russia loses 20% of their sales when they're making 500% more money on 80% of their customers who are still buying? Nations like France already said they can't participate in the boycott since they're too dependent on Russian energy.

If the American government wanted to hurt Russia, we would turn on our oil pumps and pipelines to drive the price of oil so low, Russia couldn't make a profit. We would ask our allies in the Middle East to increase production too. Biden cancelled a couple of dozen jet fighters Poland wanted to send to Ukraine. Our government talks about beating Russia but certain policies are helping Russia. Go figure.

The American government is asking private companies to hurt Russian citizens. No more Coca Cola or Big Macs for them! We've adopted a policy to punish Russia citizens who aren't to blame. It will anger them to the point they may begin to support an escalation of the war. Maybe escalation of this war is our policy too?

Read my past posts and I supported Bush's and Obama's wars. I am not satisfied with the results. I thought we learned a lesson after Vietnam and would get it right. I know people who lived in or lived nearby Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan and they say it's more of a mess AFTER America and NATO got involved. We didn't make those countries better and we certainly didn't bring them Democracy as promised. Afghanis who supported us for 20 years are now getting slaughtered after we abandoned them. I'm afraid the West used Ukraine and it's going to end badly for them too.

America has been involved in non stop wars for over 20 years. We need to stop. Quit supporting our government policies that encourage more war.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 13, 2022, 09:58:49 PM
Illia Ponamerenko’s Twitter account. He is in Kyiv “until the bitter end”.

http://mobile.twitter.com/IAPonomarenko?s=20&t=cT3DNRN-NIqv8IntmYP9uQ
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2022, 11:23:31 PM
They (Russia) also claim the labs were secretly-funded by the US, a claim  easily disproved by a cursory review of the US Embassy's website.


Link to a fact check by BBC News .... http://www.bbc.com/news/60711705 (http://www.bbc.com/news/60711705)


Fact checking sites are a tool media uses to get more of us to believe the propaganda they put out is true.


What that BBC fact checking site and the others don't tell us is the American government deleted pages on their US Embassy website in Ukraine right before putting out propaganda that the American government didn't fund the biolabs.


We are constantly being lied to by our government and our media. The Russian Trump collusion hoax and impeachment circus should've taught us a lesson. Now our government and media wants us to believe we are the good guys engaging in a just war with Russia. Our government wants escalation and needs our support. They can't have any stories out there showing we've been bad to Ukraine and Russia has any valid reason to go to war.


Here are 'some' of the archived pages from the US embassy in Ukraine website. Our government under Obama heavily funded the biolabs right before he supported the Orange Revolution. If I can find these archived pages, so can investigative journalists but instead of revealing the lies of our government, they put out fact checks to get us to believe we have an honest government. We are living in very dangerous times.


http://web.archive.org/web/20170130193016/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-kharkiv-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20210511164310/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-luhansk-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170221125752/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-dnipropetrovsk-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20210506053014/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-vinnitsa-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170221125752/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-dnipropetrovsk-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170207122550/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-kherson-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170223011502/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-ternopil-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170208032526/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-zakarpatska-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170202040923/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-lviv-dl-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170201004446/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-lviv-rdvl-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170207153023/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-dnipropetrovsk-rdvl_eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170211022339/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/kiev-ivm-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

There's a lot more bad I can say about what the American government is doing but some people don't want to hear it because it challenges everything they believe in. People need to start waking up to what our government has become before it's too late. Both Republican and Democratic parties are corrupted and need to be overhauled or dismantled.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 13, 2022, 11:44:20 PM
Fact checking sites are a tool media uses to get more of us to believe the propaganda they put out is true.

I see you're still digging in the same old hole again, filling it with your conspiracy tripe and topping it off with cop-outs.

Have fun down there. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 01:06:45 AM
Another journalist to follow.

http://mobile.twitter.com/mrsorokaa?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2022, 03:08:00 AM
Apparently Russia and Ukraine are getting close to reaching an agreement in their peace negotiations. I don't believe it and will be very surprised if they do. Today Russian forces shelled the Antonov aircraft factory in Kyiv thereby reducing Ukraine's ability to manufacture or fix aircraft not that I think they are in much of a position to do that at the moment but a strategic target hit nonetheless. Shelling continues on apartment blocks in and around Kyiv and other cities. Mariupol in dire straights.

I personally don't see that Putin can afford to back down at least not without some kind of agreement on what he wants in terms of no NATO in Ukraine, etc. Even then it may be difficult for him to and not end up like Khrushchev after the Cuban Missile Crises being retired off as a result.

While Russian forces haven't started assault Kyiv yet they have likely pretty much encircled it and so with supplies cut off to Kyiv in that respect they then only have to sit it out, though I don't think they will do that alone.

Apparently in Kherson the Russians may try to hold a ballot to make it another breakaway 'peoples republic', nothing like democracy in action lol. That again would be a sign that they  have no intention of signing any peace treaty which allows the present Ukrainian government to continue. Russia has had a fair amount of losses getting to where they are so far but I don't think Putin cares about that, there is still the cast bulk of the invasion army left and most of Ukraine's main big cities encircled now. I reckon the Russians are thinking it's just a matter of time before each city capitulates in turn now and is just playing Ukraine along.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 14, 2022, 03:09:45 AM
Apartment block in Kiev.next to a school playing field and nowhere near any military ,hit by a Russian missile this morning.


Russia targeting civilians as per usual.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 14, 2022, 06:35:44 AM
I just had an idea on how to transfer the Polish Mig-29's to Ukraine.

The US or Poland should just disable the firing controls.  Cut a wire or something minor.  At that point, the Mig-29's can not be used to fire any weapons.  They are no different than any other type of plane.

Then, the non-lethal Mig-29's are given to Ukraine.  Ukraine does repairs so the Mig-29's can be weaponized again.

I compare it to taking the firing pin out of a rifle.  Because it can't physically fire a bullet, it is no longer legally considered a firearm.  If you replace the firing pin, it becomes a firearm again.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2022, 06:45:24 AM

Did you guys believe the media and the American government who initially called the biolabs mis/disinformation? Since they can't hide it anymore, they downplay it. Don't be duped again.

Of course the biolabs are funded by the US government besides private organizations like the SOROS foundation. The media is pure propaganda. The truth can easily be found even on Google, which buries anything that runs against the current narrative.

 
Somebody like Tulsi Gabbard must really believe that there is something going on wtih biolabs, or why would she make these statements....   I'm having a hard time believing it myself.  It's not that I don't think the US would fund weaponized biolabs, because I think we probably would.  It's that I have a hard time believing it would be in Ukraine, where it would provide Russia a legitimate reason to destroy it.   

Sen. Mitt Romney accused Tulsi Gabbard of 'parroting false Russian propaganda' after her comments on biolabs in Ukraine

....Earlier in the day, Gabbard, who ran for president in 2020, posted a video on Twitter repeating claims about US-funded biolabs in Ukraine. She also appeared on Fox News host Tucker Carlson's show last week and said she was "deeply concerned" about claims of bioweapons in Ukraine.....

 http://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-mitt-romney-accused-tulsi-055336362.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-mitt-romney-accused-tulsi-055336362.html)

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 14, 2022, 09:55:55 AM

Did you guys believe the media and the American government who initially called the biolabs mis/disinformation? Since they can't hide it anymore, they downplay it. Don't be duped again.

Of course the biolabs are funded by the US government besides private organizations like the SOROS foundation. The media is pure propaganda. The truth can easily be found even on Google, which buries anything that runs against the current narrative.

Here is a 2005 news article stating Obama was involved in getting Ukraine money to create biolabs to handle biological weapons so yes, they are level 4 and can handle the most dangerous pathogens known to man. They are working with military grade biological weapons stating it's for research to benefit mankind. If Putin did and said that, would you believe him? I don't believe the American government. They intentionally put Ukraine in danger using them as a playground for their provocative projects. Obama was also involved in getting funding to China to experiment with Coronaviruses. America has no business outsourcing experiments with the most dangerous pathogens known to man to any country, especially those full of corruption.

http://media.nti.org/pdfs/148_2.pdf (http://media.nti.org/pdfs/148_2.pdf)

Victoria Nuland from the State Dept. and she was Obama's instrument to fuel the Orange Revolution in Ukraine put out a statement our government is worried about Russia getting their hands on the biolabs. Why? Probably because they're level 4 and probably Russia will obtain evidence that our government doesn't want released to the world. In the video in link below, her body language and voice shows she's very worried.

http://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/1501336793941258240?s=21 (http://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/1501336793941258240?s=21)

I'm not for the war but Putin has a right to get involved in making sure weapons grade pathogens aren't being manufactured next door.


How do you guys like those high gas prices making Russian richer funding the war in Ukraine? [rhetorical foil] A barrel of oil was little over $20 at one time in 2020. Now it's 5-6 times as much. So what if a few nations boycott and Russia loses 20% of their sales when they're making 500% more money on 80% of their customers who are still buying? Nations like France already said they can't participate in the boycott since they're too dependent on Russian energy.

If the American government wanted to hurt Russia, we would turn on our oil pumps and pipelines to drive the price of oil so low, Russia couldn't make a profit. We would ask our allies in the Middle East to increase production too. Biden cancelled a couple of dozen jet fighters Poland wanted to send to Ukraine. Our government talks about beating Russia but certain policies are helping Russia. Go figure.

The American government is asking private companies to hurt Russian citizens. No more Coca Cola or Big Macs for them! We've adopted a policy to punish Russia citizens who aren't to blame. It will anger them to the point they may begin to support an escalation of the war. Maybe escalation of this war is our policy too?

Read my past posts and I supported Bush's and Obama's wars. I am not satisfied with the results. I thought we learned a lesson after Vietnam and would get it right. I know people who lived in or lived nearby Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan and they say it's more of a mess AFTER America and NATO got involved. We didn't make those countries better and we certainly didn't bring them Democracy as promised. Afghanis who supported us for 20 years are now getting slaughtered after we abandoned them. I'm afraid the West used Ukraine and it's going to end badly for them too.
America has been involved in non stop wars for over 20 years. We need to stop. Quit supporting our government policies that encourage more war.


So much nonsense.


The emboldened statement in blue indicate clear bias. That bias undergirds everything else.

The use of "probably" and "if" are indicative of hypotheticals. Those hypotheticals are then drawn out as conclusory, but their underlying basis is NOT supported with facts. Joe Friday would be appalled.


Once again, the arrogance displayed in a post like this TRUMPets the message; "I know the truth and you do not!" It's ludicrous. The danger of these posts is there are small snippets of truth in them, so a casual reader might not bother to pick up on the fact that Russia was claiming these were "secret" weapons biolabs. If they were so secret, why was there public announcement in 2005 and then on the US Embassy website. There was nothing "secret" about them. Remember the Latin phrase Falsus in uno, falsus in ombibus -- false in part, false in whole.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 11:29:10 AM
The US claims China may be willing to arm Russia. This is a token for a paywalled article.

 http://archive.ph/ZRtRn
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 11:41:53 AM
Somebody like Tulsi Gabbard must really believe that there is something going on wtih biolabs, or why would she make these statements....   I'm having a hard time believing it myself.  It's not that I don't think the US would fund weaponized biolabs, because I think we probably would.  It's that I have a hard time believing it would be in Ukraine, where it would provide Russia a legitimate reason to destroy it.   

Sen. Mitt Romney accused Tulsi Gabbard of 'parroting false Russian propaganda' after her comments on biolabs in Ukraine

....Earlier in the day, Gabbard, who ran for president in 2020, posted a video on Twitter repeating claims about US-funded biolabs in Ukraine. She also appeared on Fox News host Tucker Carlson's show last week and said she was "deeply concerned" about claims of bioweapons in Ukraine.....

 http://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-mitt-romney-accused-tulsi-055336362.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-mitt-romney-accused-tulsi-055336362.html)

Fathertime!

Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent.

This is the Twitter account of Ben Collins, a reporter who has been following the biolabs “issue”. He gives a good explanation-

http://tinyurl.com/2p8azrnt

Here is his whole story on the issue-

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/qanon-ukraine-biolabs-russian-propaganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392

My conclusion is that anyone spreading this lie is either a Russian agent, or a dupe for the Russians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 14, 2022, 11:49:51 AM
The US claims China may be willing to arm Ukraine. This is a token for a paywalled article.

 http://archive.ph/ZRtRn

Wife was all in a panic telling me about this.
So thanks for posting this link so I could read.
Not as dire as she thought.
China is denying.
USA (and our group) is to threaten China with consequences if they do provide help to Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 14, 2022, 12:11:53 PM
Somebody like Tulsi Gabbard must really believe that there is something going on wtih biolabs, or why would she make these statements....   
For one thing-- Ms Gabbard did not say anything about the US has 'weaponized biolabs'. For another-- Mitt Romney has never changed his hum drum asinine position on anything productive.
Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent. 
Donation? A big rugged $59?
The woman is an American citizen who is accused of being a Russian agent by who?
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg
Supposedly-- Donald Trump was a Russian agent, Putin's stooge ...accused with no supportive facts.
Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever the Russian Federation has invaded an area....a Democrat was president? 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 14, 2022, 12:12:24 PM
Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent.

This is the Twitter account of Ben Collins, a reporter who has been following the biolabs “issue”. He gives a good explanation-

http://tinyurl.com/2p8azrnt (http://tinyurl.com/2p8azrnt)

Here is his whole story on the issue-

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/qanon-ukraine-biolabs-russian-propaganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392 (http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/qanon-ukraine-biolabs-russian-propaganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392)

My conclusion is that anyone spreading this lie is either a Russian agent, or a dupe for the Russians.

Concur.

I believe there are well-intended Americans, including many veterans, who have seen things they never thought they would see. Some of that has shaken their trust in America. As sad as that may be, more than a few are now allowing themselves to be misled by their disappointment and buying into garbage that is pablum for the weary, but defies critical analysis. Worse, those same starry-eyed youth who fought wars in the name of American virtue, are now falling victim to psychological warfare from legitimate enemies both domestic and foreign.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 14, 2022, 12:15:55 PM
For one thing-- Ms Gabbard did not say anything about the US has 'weaponized biolabs'. For another-- Mitt Romney has never changed his hum drum asinine position on anything productive.Donation? A big rugged $59?
The woman is an American citizen who is accused of being a Russian agent by who?
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg)
Supposedly-- Donald Trump was a Russian agent, Putin's stooge ...accused with no supportive facts.
Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever the Russian Federation has invaded an area....a Democrat was president?

Coincidence or causal?

I see a clear relationship between Olympics events and Putin's aggressions - but again, it is coincidence or causal? And .... does it matter? The aggressions exist regardless.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 12:25:08 PM
The woman is an American citizen who is accused of being a Russian agent by who?
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg)
Supposedly-- Donald Trump was a Russian agent, Putin's stooge ...accused with no supportive facts.
Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever the Russian Federation has invaded an area....a Democrat was president?


By the US government.  She fled back to Russia.  That in and of itself is rather telling, IMHO.


I don't think the US government ever alleged Trump was a Russian agent.  I do think he is compromised, probably by his own greed.  Without oligarch dollars, his empire would be defunct.


You are mistaken about only Democrats being presidents during invasions.  G.W. Bush was president when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.  George H.W. Bush was president in 1990, when the Transnistria conflict occurred.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 12:31:53 PM
This is a Bloomberg article picked up by Canada's National Post.


http://nationalpost.com/news/world/china-denies-malicious-u-s-reports-that-russia-sought-their-military-aid-for-ukraine-war
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 14, 2022, 01:44:21 PM

By the US government.  She fled back to Russia.  That in and of itself is rather telling, IMHO.


I don't think the US government ever alleged Trump was a Russian agent.  I do think he is compromised, probably by his own greed.  Without oligarch dollars, his empire would be defunct.


You are mistaken about only Democrats being presidents during invasions.  G.W. Bush was president when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.  George H.W. Bush was president in 1990, when the Transnistria conflict occurred.
I goofed up my link. Should be----
 http://www.salon.com/2022/03/11/accused-russian-agent-lobbied-lawmakers-only-donated-to-one-politician-tulsi-gabbard/
 A donation from someone made Tulsi a Putin supporter?
 So far, the Russians have not conquered Georgia. At least... not so far.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2022, 01:46:25 PM
Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent.

I really don't think Gabbard is either of those.  I think she believes she is correct.  Why would she believe it is what should be heard.   

Maybe she is interested in undermining biden

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
So far, the Russians have not conquered Georgia. At least... not so far.


But they did invade Georgian territory during the Bush administration.


I really don't think Gabbard is either of those.  I think she believes she is correct.  Why would she believe it is what should be heard.   

Maybe she is interested in undermining biden

Fathertime!   


When it looks like a duck . . .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 14, 2022, 02:02:27 PM

Fact checking sites are a tool media uses to get more of us to believe the propaganda they put out is true.
Politico might be one. They are the first to break their necks jumping in for the liberal cause.
Quote
What that BBC fact checking site and the others don't tell us is the American government deleted pages on their US Embassy website in Ukraine right before putting out propaganda that the American government didn't fund the biolabs.
I still didn't see that the bottom was reached concerning Tony Fauci and the Wuhan lab. BTW where is that guy?
Quote
We are living in very dangerous times.
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/afb031422dAPR20220314044504.jpg)
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 14, 2022, 02:38:34 PM
But they did invade Georgian territory during the Bush administration.
Acknowledged. However--as it turned out.. with his own bare butt hanging out with Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan...Bush was in no position there to paddle the Russians over former Soviet affairs. Also, as with Ukraine today, there was no NATO jurisdiction involved. Will there be? Is NATO as solidly together as Biden says? -----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NwzfinbXqA
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 04:27:30 PM
Another perspective on the evil Kremlin stooge Gabbard.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tulsi-gabbard-thoughts-biolabs-kremlin-fixated
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 14, 2022, 05:47:52 PM
Now tell me this is a regime that can coexist with Western business.

http://archive.ph/xrJkM
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2022, 06:07:00 PM
I am certain that the pending amount of mass death in Ukraine is going to show something much worse than "property rights" being abridged
see THIS for EXACTLY what it is on the horizon, the worst humaitarian nightmare in Europe since 1945
worse than Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo, etc....
ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians in Ukraine
when was the last time this happened, and what was it called?
this is 2.0!!!


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2022, 06:25:38 PM
Now tell me this is a regime that can coexist with Western business.

http://archive.ph/xrJkM

I don't blame Russia for retaliating on western businesses. Afterall, they (And their people) are having billions frozen or seized around the world by the US and other western countries. I wouldn't expect them to just permit all the western assets within their borders to just be cashed out under these circumstances.  I would expect China to also take note and the consequence being less investment in the US.  Going forward the US is a less safe investment. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 14, 2022, 07:29:10 PM
Another perspective on the evil Kremlin stooge Gabbard.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tulsi-gabbard-thoughts-biolabs-kremlin-fixated (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tulsi-gabbard-thoughts-biolabs-kremlin-fixated)
That certainly puts Lafond's blog into a higher gear......
Quote
Former long-shot presidential candidate and congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii is just the latest U.S. politician to seize on debunked, Kremlin-backed conspiracy theories (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/kremlin-birds-biolabs-conspiracy-theory-ukraine) about the supposed existence of U.S.-run bioweapon research labs in Ukraine.

But she’s the first high-profile Democrat to do so.

What started as an InfoWars talking point has been embraced by the Russian and Chinese state media and has morphed in recent days into a full blown right-wing effort to place the blame for President Putin’s deadly war on Ukraine squarely on the shoulders of the U.S. right’s usual cast of enemies, including President Biden and, of course, Anthony Fauci. Kate Riga digs into the madness here (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/qanon-conspiracy-theory-fauci-ukraine-biolabs).

The capsule version of the story so far is this: The right-wing fever swamps in the U.S. have seized on the existence of run-of-the-mill research facilities in Ukraine as the real reason for Putin’s invasion, claiming the U.S. — and Fauci himself! — has been backing the work being done in these laboratories in order to create some sort of new infectious disease bioweapon.
Quote
Kate Riga digs into the madness
Kind of verbose isn't she?
Besides... I still cannot find anywhere at all that Tulsi Gabbard has claimed-- "the USA is running BIO-WEAPONS labs in Ukraine".
If toxic crap is somehow released into the area...then criticism will evolve that postulates Russia did it to further magnify this claim.
One thing is for sure...Tony Fauci is in hiatus [hiding for some reason?] __ hide-atus  :-\
Quote
she’s the first high-profile Democrat to do so.
High profile RINO Romney seems to be leveling the charge as well.....Seeing him go makes my mouth water.
[I am not a Republican]
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2022, 07:48:31 PM
instead of a "no-fly zone"
how about an airlift zone for food aid to fly safely into Ukraine
Russia won't allow, because starvation will be their tool to defeat the Ukrainian people and then blame it on Ukrainian leaders...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 14, 2022, 07:50:43 PM
http://youtu.be/kSNo2FPQDQw

Slava Ukraini! (Glory to Ukraine!)
Heroyam Slava (Glory to Heroes!)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 14, 2022, 09:26:59 PM
I don't blame Russia for retaliating on western businesses. Afterall, they (And their people) are having billions frozen or seized around the world by the US and other western countries. I wouldn't expect them to just permit all the western assets within their borders to just be cashed out under these circumstances.  I would expect China to also take note and the consequence being less investment in the US.  Going forward the US is a less safe investment. 

Fathertime!


Yes, for dictators who launch unprovoked attacks on sovereign nations and their citizenry. If another one of those wants to find safe harbor for their ill gotten gains, they should be mightily concerned about investing in the US. And that's a good thing .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2022, 10:00:42 PM

Yes, for dictators who launch unprovoked attacks on sovereign nations and their citizenry.
Green=opinion...not fact. 
Dictators, Putin is president.  Xi is president of China.   The two nations brought up in the post I made. 
Red= Many things can be said, but unprovoked is inaccurate.   There was a reason. 

If another one of those wants to find safe harbor for their ill gotten gains, they should be mightily concerned about investing in the US. And that's a good thing .
Ill be gotten gains....disputable. 

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere.  Their 'ill be gotten gains' have been a pillar of investment money in the USA.   Losing future foreign investment would be a sizable blow to our economy. 

We shall see if indeed there is a longer term financial consequence to the US.  It is clear there is going to be a short term and probably long term consequence to Russia.   China is doing nothing but strengthening their position throughout this ordeal. 

Fathertime!   
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 15, 2022, 12:41:42 AM

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere. 
As if there was another USA in an alternative universe?
Besides...doesn't China own Wal-Mart?  Seems like it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 15, 2022, 01:50:44 AM
Green=opinion...not fact. 
Dictators, Putin is president.  Xi is president of China.   The two nations brought up in the post I made. 
1. Red= Many things can be said, but unprovoked is inaccurate.   There was a reason.
Ill be gotten gains....disputable. 

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they 2. may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere.  Their 'ill be gotten gains' have been a pillar of investment money in the USA.   Losing future foreign investment would be a sizable blow to our economy. 

We shall see if indeed there is a longer term financial consequence to the US.  It is clear there is going to be a short term and probably long term consequence to Russia.   China is doing nothing but strengthening their position throughout this ordeal. 

Fathertime!

1. A pretext is not the same as a reason. There was no legitimate reason as evidenced by world reaction. There was no provocation outside pretext.


2. Just as stated earlier, a dictator (or any honorific) who is considering investing their funds, ill-gotten or otherwise, into the US while at the same time planning to invade another sovereign country, would be wise to look elsewhere. That is quite intentional.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 15, 2022, 02:08:41 AM
Green=opinion...not fact. 
Dictators, Putin is president.  Xi is president of China.   The two nations brought up in the post I made. 
Red= Many things can be said, but unprovoked is inaccurate.   There was a reason. 
Ill be gotten gains....disputable. 

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere.  Their 'ill be gotten gains' have been a pillar of investment money in the USA.   Losing future foreign investment would be a sizable blow to our economy. 

We shall see if indeed there is a longer term financial consequence to the US.  It is clear there is going to be a short term and probably long term consequence to Russia.  China is doing nothing but strengthening their position throughout this ordeal.

Fathertime!

Yeah, the Yuan is doing really well. [/sarcasm]
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 15, 2022, 04:01:59 AM
I am certain that the pending amount of mass death in Ukraine is going to show something much worse than "property rights" being abridged
see THIS for EXACTLY what it is on the horizon, the worst humaitarian nightmare in Europe since 1945
worse than Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo, etc....
ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians in Ukraine
when was the last time this happened, and what was it called?
this is 2.0!!!


This is my fear too....it's happening in Mariupol already.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2022, 05:28:57 AM
Yeah, the Yuan is doing really well. [/sarcasm]
The Yuan isn't doing bad at all. 

Their stock market is having a bad day at the moment, because investors are concerned China is going to provide aid to Russia.  If aid is provided the US is threatening to 'Sanction' China.  If the US actually sanctions China, there will be further consequences from China to the US.  If they were sanctioned enough, China could find it in their interests to actually invade Taiwan as they would already be in a financial war.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2022, 05:45:33 AM
1. A pretext is not the same as a reason. There was no legitimate reason as evidenced by world reaction. There was no provocation outside pretext.
Despite US arm twisting which has coerced some nations, many non western nations aren't reacting very much.  Nations are mostly acting in self interest.  The Western block, use their influence as a lever for some non western nations, while Russia tries to do the same. 
Apparently Russia has drawn a red line with Ukraine, and from their view that was reason enough to do whatever is necessary to keep the region in their orbit, and out of the Wests orbit.


2. Just as stated earlier, a dictator (or any honorific) who is considering investing their funds, ill-gotten or otherwise, into the US while at the same time planning to invade another sovereign country, would be wise to look elsewhere. That is quite intentional.
The US doesn't adhere to a universal moral reason.
It is only the case if the nation to be invaded is a nation that it is in our interests to care about. 
Unfortunately for the US, it would be wise for nations to look elsewhere for investment because sanctions are used liberally and sanctions aren't working too well.   If sanctions don't work, then what.....

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 15, 2022, 07:46:45 AM
The Yuan isn't doing bad at all. 

Their stock market is having a bad day at the moment, because investors are concerned China is going to provide aid to Russia.  If aid is provided the US is threatening to 'Sanction' China.  If the US actually sanctions China, there will be further consequences from China to the US.  If they were sanctioned enough, China could find it in their interests to actually invade Taiwan as they would already be in a financial war.   

Fathertime!

And if Taiwan is held by china?

As far as China not investing here ,good.
I'm tried of watching our country bought up by foreign entities on the funds we pay them for products/imports.

If you buy more than you produce,  it's a transfer of your  country's/ citizens weath,
They have been using our wealth transfer to buy the
United states.

We rely on tech industry, to.semi balance this, but becoming a one trick pony was always foolish in the extreme.

 :cluebat:

Covid gave us a  a small taste of this foolishness,but it's the end game if you keep exporting more dollars than the tangible items your country produces.

In the end there is nothing we need from.China that cant be manufactured here.
Why would we want to transfer wealth?


Obviuosly trade can be positive for both countries ,but an imbalance in who is actually benefiting
has needed a reset for some time.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2022, 08:37:29 AM

As far as China not investing here ,good.
I'm tried of watching our country bought up by foreign entities on the funds we pay them for products/imports.

If you buy more than you produce,  it's a transfer of your  country's/ citizens weath,
They have been using our wealth transfer to buy the
United states.

We rely on tech industry, to.semi balance this, but becoming a one trick pony was always foolish in the extreme.

 :cluebat:

Covid gave us a  a small taste of this foolishness,but it's the end game if you keep exporting more dollars than the tangible items your country produces.

In the end there is nothing we need from.China that cant be manufactured here.
Why would we want to transfer wealth?


Obviuosly trade can be positive for both countries ,but an imbalance in who is actually benefiting
has needed a reset for some time.
These are some interesting points!   

China and the Chinese are indeed buying a lot here, as are other nation's peoples.  A consequence (If we want to call it that) of them no longer buying is a large decrease in the nation's wealth.   It is great that the Chinese are paying property tax here on millions and billions of dollars of real estate for example.  It transfers wealth back to us!  We buy their product and get some money back through taxes and tourism. 

Asset prices are up enormously at the moment, that helps drive the consumer economy.  A decrease in values can cascade throughout the economy in a bad way.    I'm no economist, so this is merely some factors.  I think a loss of international demand in our markets would be an overall negative.

I'm not so sure we can actually rustle up the workforce to produce our own products at this point.  We would probably need to import labor, and you know how much some conservatives like seeing new immigrants from south of the border! 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 15, 2022, 08:56:41 AM
There are currently 6.27 million unemployed in the USA..there's your needed workforce.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 15, 2022, 09:18:08 AM
Was China Betting on Russian Defeat All Along?

http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/was-china-betting-on-russian-defeat-all-along/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2022, 09:24:03 AM
There are currently 6.27 million unemployed in the USA..there's your needed workforce.
11.2 million job openings in the USA as of January 2022.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 15, 2022, 09:33:36 AM
Gas war…

check out the tremendous gains that the USA and Canada have made in creating LNG export terminals…

Canada


13 West Coast (British Columbia) Export Terminals
Kitimat LNG
20 Years
10 Mtpa - 1.3 Bcf/d
$15
LNG Canada
40 Years
26 Mtpa – 3.5 Bcf/d
$25-$40
Cedar LNG Project
25 Years
6.4 Mtpa – 0.8 Bcf/d
 
Orca LNG
25 Years
24 Mtpa – 3.2 Bcf/d
 
New Times Energy
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
 
Kitsault Energy Project
20 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.7 Bcf/d
 
Stewart LNG Export Project
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.0 Bcf/d
 
Triton LNG (On Hold)
25 Years
2.3 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
 
Woodfibre LNG
25 Years
2.1 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
$1.6
WesPac LNG Marine Terminal
25 Years
3 Mtpa – 0.6 Bcf/d
 
Discovery LNG
25 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.6 Bcf/d
 
Steelhead LNG: Kwispaa LNG
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.3 Bcf/d
$30
Watson Island
 
 
 
5 East Coast Export Terminals
Goldboro LNG
(Nova Scotia)
20 Years
10 Mtpa – 1.4 Bcf/d
$8.3
Bear Head LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$2-$8
A C LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
15 Mtpa – 2.1 Bcf/d
$3
Energie Saguenay (Quebec)
25 Years
11 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$7
Stolt LNGaz (Quebec)
25 Years
0.5 Mtpa – 0.7 Bcf/d
$0.6
Total 
216 Mtpa – 29 Bcf/d
 

The image below shows USAs equally rising potential to replace European Russian gas imports with American/Canadian LNG!!!

a huge shift in economic power for USA and Canada (and Australia!) and HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal
and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 15, 2022, 09:44:20 AM
Gas war… HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm

So you are saying the war is about money ?

Have never heard of such a thing !!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 15, 2022, 10:13:24 AM
HOW WILL WE REGARD THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKAINE IN 20 YEARS ?

IN LIGHT OF THE DEVELOPING CATASTROPHE IN UKRAINE, one wonders if President George W. Bush regrets not having taken a
harder line against Russian President Vladimir Putin when he invaded Georgia in 2008. Or if President Barack Obama wishes he had tried harder to muster the rest of the free world to resist Putin’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.
But that’s the trouble with overused clichés such as “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” They sound surpassingly wise but, in practical terms, they don’t tell us very much about how we should behave now.
Often clichés such as these raise more questions than they answer. If Bush had resisted Putin in 2008 or Obama had in 2014, we do not know whether Russia would be currently residing quietly within its national boundaries or whether we would have already experienced World War
III and would now be facing World War IV, the one that Einstein supposedly said would be “fought with sticks and stones.”
In fact, the best that the cliché might do for us now is to remind us that in 10 or 20 years we may look back on 2022 and wonder why we didn’t act more decisively to prevent a ruthless autocrat from brutally destroying a country with nascent inclinations toward democracy, the rule of law and the free world.
Of course, it’s not as if we’re doing nothing. The sanctions and the military and humanitarian support are damaging the Russian economy and are helping Ukrainians resist the assault on their country.
But few argue that the sanctions are going to be enough to stop Putin. And while military aid is welcomed by the Ukrainians, it may be only enough to help them prolong —rather than win —the war and drive the casualty toll into the many thousands.
Proxy wars never turn out well for the proxies. When we consider this war in 20 years, what will we wish we had done differently?
We may wish that Bush and Obama had been more resistant in 2008 and 2014.  Trump’s biggest mistake may have been to encourage Putin with a false equivalency between our nation and his. When a commentator pointed out in 2017 that Putin is a killer, Trump replied: “There are a lot of killers. You think our country’s so innocent?”
 And in 20 years will we wish that the Biden administration had made a greater commitment to stopping Putin militarily? My preference is for “soft power” and diplomacy. But it’s a sad fact of history that often only “hard power ” — military force — will stop an autocrat such as Putin.
We must not let our mistakes and failures confuse us about the essential difference between our nation’s commitment to democracy, equality and the rule of law and the brutal totalitarianism currently expressing itself in Ukraine. May we not recognize only 20 years later that it’s a distinction worth fighting for today.
JOHN M. CRISP is an op-ed columnist for Tribune News Service. Email him at jcrispcolumns@gmail.com.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 15, 2022, 11:27:24 AM
HOW WILL WE REGARD THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKAINE IN 20 YEARS ?

I believe the invasion will be regarded as inevitable and one of Putin's last desperate throes to maintain power.  Ultimately, the Russian people realized how badly they were duped and insisted on political change.  China gains influence and access to energy and natural resources in the Eastern parts of Russia in compensation for post-war economic support.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 15, 2022, 01:25:34 PM
I believe the invasion will be regarded as inevitable and one of Putin's last desperate throes to maintain power.  Ultimately, the Russian people realized how badly they were duped and insisted on political change.  China gains influence and access to energy and natural resources in the Eastern parts of Russia in compensation for post-war economic support.

Agree that's a likely scenario.

I hope all our relatives survive the transitions
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 15, 2022, 01:26:20 PM
Gas war…

check out the tremendous gains that the USA and Canada have made in creating LNG export terminals…

Canada


13 West Coast (British Columbia) Export Terminals
Kitimat LNG
20 Years
10 Mtpa - 1.3 Bcf/d
$15
LNG Canada
40 Years
26 Mtpa – 3.5 Bcf/d
$25-$40
Cedar LNG Project
25 Years
6.4 Mtpa – 0.8 Bcf/d
 
Orca LNG
25 Years
24 Mtpa – 3.2 Bcf/d
 
New Times Energy
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
 
Kitsault Energy Project
20 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.7 Bcf/d
 
Stewart LNG Export Project
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.0 Bcf/d
 
Triton LNG (On Hold)
25 Years
2.3 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
 
Woodfibre LNG
25 Years
2.1 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
$1.6
WesPac LNG Marine Terminal
25 Years
3 Mtpa – 0.6 Bcf/d
 
Discovery LNG
25 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.6 Bcf/d
 
Steelhead LNG: Kwispaa LNG
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.3 Bcf/d
$30
Watson Island
 
 
 
5 East Coast Export Terminals
Goldboro LNG
(Nova Scotia)
20 Years
10 Mtpa – 1.4 Bcf/d
$8.3
Bear Head LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$2-$8
A C LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
15 Mtpa – 2.1 Bcf/d
$3
Energie Saguenay (Quebec)
25 Years
11 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$7
Stolt LNGaz (Quebec)
25 Years
0.5 Mtpa – 0.7 Bcf/d
$0.6
Total 
216 Mtpa – 29 Bcf/d
 

The image below shows USAs equally rising potential to replace European Russian gas imports with American/Canadian LNG!!!

a huge shift in economic power for USA and Canada (and Australia!) and HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal
and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm

Thanks for that summary
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 15, 2022, 01:42:02 PM
Green=opinion...not fact. 


Dictator noun - a political leader who has complete power over a country


Both Putin and Xi appoint the leaders of regions in their respective countries.  In Russia, those leaders were elected, but the president took that power from the people, and concentrated it in his own hands. 


Putin has jailed or killed opposition party members.  He changed the constitution so that he could hang on to power.  Russian presidential elections were not open and democratic.  Putin and his cabal of former KGB associates have plundered the country's wealth, and created a kleptocracy.


Dissent is met with long jail sentences of death in China.  Xi does not allow opposition.  When the balance of the politburo finds he is no longer useful, he will disappear.  He's not elected by the people.


Based on the above, I think there is a good argument to support the statement they are both dictators.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 15, 2022, 01:46:20 PM
Gas war…

check out the tremendous gains that the USA and Canada have made in creating LNG export terminals…

Canada


13 West Coast (British Columbia) Export Terminals
Kitimat LNG
20 Years
10 Mtpa - 1.3 Bcf/d
$15
LNG Canada
40 Years
26 Mtpa – 3.5 Bcf/d
$25-$40
Cedar LNG Project
25 Years
6.4 Mtpa – 0.8 Bcf/d
 
Orca LNG
25 Years
24 Mtpa – 3.2 Bcf/d
 
New Times Energy
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
 
Kitsault Energy Project
20 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.7 Bcf/d
 
Stewart LNG Export Project
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.0 Bcf/d
 
Triton LNG (On Hold)
25 Years
2.3 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
 
Woodfibre LNG
25 Years
2.1 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
$1.6
WesPac LNG Marine Terminal
25 Years
3 Mtpa – 0.6 Bcf/d
 
Discovery LNG
25 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.6 Bcf/d
 
Steelhead LNG: Kwispaa LNG
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.3 Bcf/d
$30
Watson Island
 
 
 
5 East Coast Export Terminals
Goldboro LNG
(Nova Scotia)
20 Years
10 Mtpa – 1.4 Bcf/d
$8.3
Bear Head LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$2-$8
A C LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
15 Mtpa – 2.1 Bcf/d
$3
Energie Saguenay (Quebec)
25 Years
11 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$7
Stolt LNGaz (Quebec)
25 Years
0.5 Mtpa – 0.7 Bcf/d
$0.6
Total 
216 Mtpa – 29 Bcf/d
 

The image below shows USAs equally rising potential to replace European Russian gas imports with American/Canadian LNG!!!

a huge shift in economic power for USA and Canada (and Australia!) and HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal
and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm


There's only one LNG terminal, in Saint John NB, and it is for domestic use only.  One is being built in Kitmat, BC, but it's been plagued with protests, violence, and destruction of property.  The Trudeau government put so many obstacles in place, that none of the other projects will ever get off the ground.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 15, 2022, 02:32:29 PM
1. Despite US arm twisting which has coerced some nations, many non western nations aren't reacting very much.  Nations are mostly acting in self interest.  The Western block, use their influence as a lever for some non western nations, while Russia tries to do the same. 
Apparently Russia has drawn a red line with Ukraine, and from their view that was reason enough to do whatever is necessary to keep the region in their orbit, and out of the Wests orbit.
The US doesn't adhere to a universal moral reason.
It is only the case if the nation to be invaded is a nation that it is in our interests to care about. 
2. Unfortunately for the US, it would be wise for nations to look elsewhere for investment because sanctions are used liberally and 3. sanctions aren't working too well.   If sanctions don't work, then what.....

Fathertime!

1. Use of terms such as "coerced" and "arm-twisting," merely serve to characterize the author's biases.

2. The facts might dispute your claim of "liberal" use of sanctions. In FACT, the US has sanctioned only six (6) countries since 1950. A broader list to include persons sanctioned by the US indicates sanctions implemented to discourage abhorrent actions such as genocide, sex trafficking and undermining a country's sovereignty, among others.

3. If sanctions aren't working too well, why should there be any concern?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2022, 03:22:38 PM
Was China Betting on Russian Defeat All Along?

http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/was-china-betting-on-russian-defeat-all-along/ (http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/was-china-betting-on-russian-defeat-all-along/)
I read it, it confirms my feeling. China is playing a better long term game. They are cunning.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 15, 2022, 05:18:35 PM
The number of Russian generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine suggests that the poor performance of the Russian military required that high-ranking officers put themselves at risk in an effort to achieve military objectives.[

Presented in chronological order based on reporting.

Name                   Rank                   Date reported
Andrei Sukhovetsky   Major General   3 March 2022[3]
Vitaly Gerasimov   Major General   8 March 2022[4]
Andrey Kolesnikov   Major General   11 March 2022[2]
Oleg Mityaev           Major General   14 March 2022[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2022, 05:46:11 PM
1. Use of terms such as "coerced" and "arm-twisting," merely serve to characterize the author's biases.

 
It's accurate.

1. Use of terms such as "coerced" and "arm-twisting," merely serve to characterize the author's biases.

2. The facts might dispute your claim of "liberal" use of sanctions. In FACT, the US has sanctioned only six (6) countries since 1950.
 

Around 30 countries actually....
As of June 2021, countries or regions subject to U.S. sanctions (either unilaterally or in part) include the Balkans, Belarus, Burma, Burundi, Central African Republic, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Hong Kong, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Nicaragua, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, Syria, Ukraine/Russia, Venezuela, Yemen, and Zimbabwe.1
 http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0410/countries-sanctioned-by-the-u.s.---and-why.aspx   (http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0410/countries-sanctioned-by-the-u.s.---and-why.aspx)


3. If sanctions aren't working too well, why should there be any concern?
If sanctions aren't working too well, a concern is what comes after sanctions mostly don't produce the desired result.  In the case of weaker countries, military action is often on the table. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 15, 2022, 07:03:07 PM
The number of Russian generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine suggests that the poor performance of the Russian military required that high-ranking officers put themselves at risk in an effort to achieve military objectives.[

Presented in chronological order based on reporting.

Name                   Rank                   Date reported
Andrei Sukhovetsky   Major General   3 March 2022[3]
Vitaly Gerasimov   Major General   8 March 2022[4]
Andrey Kolesnikov   Major General   11 March 2022[2]
Oleg Mityaev           Major General   14 March 2022[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine

Poor battlefield performance is likely cause of death. No one is safe from Putin.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 15, 2022, 07:23:31 PM
1. It's accurate.

2. Around 30 countries actually....
As of June 2021, countries or regions subject to U.S. sanctions (either unilaterally or in part) include the Balkans, Belarus, Burma, Burundi, Central African Republic, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Hong Kong, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Nicaragua, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, Syria, Ukraine/Russia, Venezuela, Yemen, and Zimbabwe.1
 http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0410/countries-sanctioned-by-the-u.s.---and-why.aspx   (http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0410/countries-sanctioned-by-the-u.s.---and-why.aspx)
3. If sanctions aren't working too well, a concern is what comes after sanctions mostly don't produce the desired result.  In the case of weaker countries, military action is often on the table. 

Fathertime!

1. I agree, my statement is accurate and your biases are on display.

2. Your cite conflates all sanctions and fails to clearly distinguish the FACT that countries are sanctioned separately from people. That is why the media made such a huge deal about the US choice to sanction Putin personally. However, even your poorly researched cite DOES show that Russia, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Syria and Cuba (the same six I referenced earlier) are the only countries sanctioned since 1950.


3. You would have the reader believe that US applies sanctions "liberally," but the FACTS show a quite measured and reasonable application of sanctions. You would have the reader believe that sanctions aren't effective and/or that the US "often" resorts to military intervention. Prove it. The facts do not support your claim.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 15, 2022, 07:26:12 PM
For those who are wondering about the letters (zwasticas) on Russian equipment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(military_symbol)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 15, 2022, 07:40:38 PM
The number of Russian generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine suggests that the poor performance of the Russian military required that high-ranking officers put themselves at risk in an effort to achieve military objectives.[

Presented in chronological order based on reporting.

Name                   Rank                   Date reported
Andrei Sukhovetsky   Major General   3 March 2022[3]
Vitaly Gerasimov   Major General   8 March 2022[4]
Andrey Kolesnikov   Major General   11 March 2022[2]
Oleg Mityaev           Major General   14 March 2022[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine

How many generals does (did) Russia have?

Ukraine says Russia had 20 generals in the invasion of Ukraine.

Supposedly, Russia has about 55% of its forces in Ukraine.  If the officer corps is equally represented, that would mean Russia had about 36 generals.

It is reported that Putin fired 8 of the generals for poor performance in Ukraine.  4 more have been killed.

That's (theoretically) a loss of 30% of his available generals.

Acceptable losses are usually considered 33%.  More than 33% losses, and a military unit is not considered combat effective.

Hmm.  Is Putin asking China to supply generals?  lol
Supposedly, Kadyrov is in Ukraine.  Did he come to fill a shortage of generals?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 15, 2022, 07:46:50 PM
How many generals does (did) Russia have?

Ukraine says Russia had 20 generals in the invasion of Ukraine.

Supposedly, Russia has about 55% of its forces in Ukraine.  If the officer corps is equally represented, that would mean Russia had about 36 generals.

It is reported that Putin fired 8 of the generals for poor performance in Ukraine.  4 more have been killed.

That's (theoretically) a loss of 30% of his available generals.

Acceptable losses are usually considered 33%.  More than 33% losses, and a military unit is not considered combat effective.

Hmm.  Is Putin asking China to supply generals?  lol
Supposedly, Kadyrov is in Ukraine.  Did he come to fill a shortage of generals?

Kadyrov holds the rank of Major General in the Russian Armed Forces.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2022, 08:39:27 PM
1. I agree, my statement is accurate and your biases are on display.
No.  Your statement is virtually meaningless in the conversation.  The US does in fact twist arms and coerce nations to tag along with or suffer consequences. 


2. Your cite conflates all sanctions and fails to clearly distinguish the FACT that countries are sanctioned separately from people. That is why the media made such a huge deal about the US choice to sanction Putin personally. However, even your poorly researched cite DOES show that Russia, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Syria and Cuba (the same six I referenced earlier) are the only countries sanctioned since 1950.

I looked back at the original post you referenced.  I stated sanctions...YOU added Countries.   I can stand by my original statement, sanctions are used often.  By YOUR standard a country such as Venezuela hasn't been impacted by sanctions when clearly it has.   Currently 30 countries and or it's people are hit with some form of US sanctions.  That is a lot.  Some probably justifiable, many aren't.   

3. You would have the reader believe that US applies sanctions "liberally," but the FACTS show a quite measured and reasonable application of sanctions. You would have the reader believe that sanctions aren't effective and/or that the US "often" resorts to military intervention. Prove it. The facts do not support your claim.

I had to run a dreaded google search.   This is the type of lists they all show.   The US has dropped bombs all these countries since WWII.   You may consider this not much military intervention, but I'd say you are wrong on that one.  The US military is active around the globe.   100's of bases across all the continents aren't all there just for the fun of it. 


Afghanistan 1998, 2001-
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Cambodia 1969-70
China 1945-46
Congo 1964
Cuba 1959-1961
El Salvador 1980s
Korea 1950-53
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
Indonesia 1958   Laos 1964-73
Grenada 1983
Iraq 1991-2000s, 2015-
Iran 1987
Korea 1950-53
Kuwait 1991
Lebanon 1983, 1984
Libya 1986, 2011-
Nicaragua 1980s
Pakistan 2003, 2006-   Palestine 2010
Panama 1989
Peru 1965
Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010-
Sudan 1998
Syria 2014-
Vietnam 1961-73
Yemen 2002, 2009-
Yugoslavia 1999


Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 15, 2022, 09:16:34 PM
No.  Your statement is virtually meaningless in the conversation. 1. The US does in fact twist arms and coerce nations to tag along with or suffer consequences.
I looked back at the original post you referenced. 2. I stated sanctions...YOU added Countries.   I can stand by my original statement, sanctions are used often. 3. By YOUR standard ...... 4. a country such as Venezuela hasn't been impacted by sanctions when clearly it has.   Currently 30 countries and or it's people are hit with some form of US sanctions.  That is a lot.  Some probably justifiable, many aren't.   
I had to run a dreaded google search.   This is the type of lists they all show.  5. The US has dropped bombs all these countries since WWII. You may consider this not much military intervention, but I'd say you are wrong on that one.  The US military is active around the globe.   100's of bases across all the continents aren't all there just for the fun of it.    


Afghanistan 1998, 2001-
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Cambodia 1969-70
China 1945-46
Congo 1964
Cuba 1959-1961
El Salvador 1980s
Korea 1950-53
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
Indonesia 1958   Laos 1964-73
Grenada 1983
Iraq 1991-2000s, 2015-
Iran 1987
Korea 1950-53
Kuwait 1991
Lebanon 1983, 1984
Libya 1986, 2011-
Nicaragua 1980s
Pakistan 2003, 2006-   Palestine 2010
Panama 1989
Peru 1965
Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010-
Sudan 1998
Syria 2014-
Vietnam 1961-73
Yemen 2002, 2009-
Yugoslavia 1999


Fathertime!

1. Clear statement of bias, unsubstantiated by facts, and undergirding all else in your claim.


2. The clarification of sanctions against countries vs sanctions against persons is necessary, for numerous reasons. The fact remains only six (6) countries have been sanctioned since 1950. That is very far from "liberal" use of sanctioning power.


3. It is not MY standard. It's simply a fact.


4. Among the persons sanctioned in Venezuela are Nicolas Maduro and Antonio Jose Benavides. Both are sanctioned by other countries including those in Latin America. It follows that sanctions against the President and Armed Forces Commander, in addition to many others, will have an effect on the country. The situation in Venezuela is extensive and not topical to this site or topic.


5. Bloviated distraction. Your earlier claim is that a progression from sanctions to military intervention is the norm. That is simply NOT true.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 15, 2022, 09:18:48 PM
I read it, it confirms my feeling. China is playing a better long term game. They are cunning.
IIRC Alexander Lebed was cautious against closer ties with China but few Russian politicians since have aired concerns. China will definitely obtain leverage from this.

A bigger issue for the Russian government is the loss of life. Demographics are such that if they lose a significant number of soldiers it will dent their population growth. The replacement rate is nothing like it was post-WW2. Good for young foreign men though (including Chinese)!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 12:12:30 AM
This was an interesting read.

http://mwi.usma.edu/a-ukrainian-insurgency-will-be-long-and-bloody/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 16, 2022, 02:31:41 AM
This was an interesting read.

http://mwi.usma.edu/a-ukrainian-insurgency-will-be-long-and-bloody/ (http://mwi.usma.edu/a-ukrainian-insurgency-will-be-long-and-bloody/)
Yep but it goes wrong totally.
 
"Thomas B. Pepinsky is the Walter F. LaFeber professor of government and public policy at Cornell University and a nonresident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Depar tment of Defense."

He betters to sow carots. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2022, 05:15:15 AM
How many generals does (did) Russia have?

Ukraine says Russia had 20 generals in the invasion of Ukraine.

Supposedly, Russia has about 55% of its forces in Ukraine.  If the officer corps is equally represented, that would mean Russia had about 36 generals.

It is reported that Putin fired 8 of the generals for poor performance in Ukraine.  4 more have been killed.

That's (theoretically) a loss of 30% of his available generals.

Acceptable losses are usually considered 33%.  More than 33% losses, and a military unit is not considered combat effective.

Hmm.  Is Putin asking China to supply generals?  lol
Supposedly, Kadyrov is in Ukraine.  Did he come to fill a shortage of generals?

My guess is that they can always either pull more Generals from elsewhere or promote others to the position of General. A lot of the invasion plan has likely already been decided and it's not going smoothly. However, Russia has still been making inroads into Ukraine they have Ukraine's largest nuclear power plant, they have many of Ukraine major cities surrounded and seem to be moving slowly into Ukraine. Not exactly Blitzkrieg but remember WWII went on for years and we're only about 20 days into the invasion here. I think Russia has suffered unexpected shortcomings. Their tanks and planes could be more easily neutralised than thought so it mostly just leaves their missile launcher vehicles as their main useful bit of kit. So laying seige and pounding the hell out of cities while the city runs out of food, water and electricity becomes the strategy.

Zelensky reckons they are close to a deal with Russia in peace negotiations. I am not so sure, probably just Putin play a game as he tends to do. The value of the ruble had gone up perhaps on that expectation so possibly Putin is holding out the hope for short term economic improvement. All the while Putin is making some small gains on the ground I don't think he will agree to peace.

Putin of course has Chemical and Hyperthermal weapons at his disposal. He hasn't used them yet and remains uncertain whether he will go to those lengths, let's of course hope not.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2022, 05:27:45 AM
1. Clear statement of bias, unsubstantiated by facts, and undergirding all else in your claim.
It doesn't matter if there is bias or not.  The fact does remain that the US is willing to coerce nations into coming along with it's policy.   You can deny it all you want but it won't change what is actually the case.    In the most recent times the policy of twisting arms isn't as effective as it once was. 

2. The clarification of sanctions against countries vs sanctions against persons is necessary, for numerous reasons. The fact remains only six (6) countries have been sanctioned since 1950. That is very far from "liberal" use of sanctioning power.
To you it is important if sanctions are against a country or individuals in that country.  I don't know that it is that important.  If a country were to sanction the top 10 wealthiest or influential people in the US that would be hundreds of billions of dollars under threat.     At the moment around 30 countries are impacted by US sanctions.  That is liberal use of sanctions. 

5. Bloviated distraction. Your earlier claim is that a progression from sanctions to military intervention is the norm. That is simply NOT true.
The US has intervened militarily around the globe.
The US has sanctions on countries, and influential persons in countries around the globe. 
Militarism has been a big part of our policy.  There is a reason our military budget dwarfs the rest of world by far.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 05:35:37 AM
Seems the battle for Mariupol isn't going well for the Russian invaders.


According to the Regional Governor cowardly Russian troops have had to take 400 patients and Staff hostage and are holding them in the intensive care Hospital basement.


No wonder Putin is having to lower his demands with his shambolic military having to resort to such tactics...if true.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 16, 2022, 08:00:25 AM
1. It doesn't matter if there is bias or not.  The fact does remain that the US is willing to coerce nations into coming along with it's policy.   You can deny it all you want but it won't change what is actually the case.    In the most recent times the policy of twisting arms isn't as effective as it once was. 
2. To you it is important if sanctions are against a country or individuals in that country.  I don't know that it is that important.  If a country were to sanction the top 10 wealthiest or influential people in the US that would be hundreds of billions of dollars under threat.     At the moment around 30 countries are impacted by US sanctions.  That is liberal use of sanctions. 
The US has intervened militarily around the globe.
The US has sanctions on countries, and influential persons in countries around the globe. 
3. Militarism has been a big part of our policy.  There is a reason our military budget dwarfs the rest of world by far.

Fathertime!

1. Of course it matters. Your anti-US trope is well-documented in previous posts. Any time you use a term/phrase such as "coerce" or "arm-twisting," the fact that the author has a clear anti-US bias is most definitely relevant. Reference my earlier post re Critical Thinking.

2. Of course it's important. The fact that only 6 countries having been sanctioned in more than 70 years is relevant to your accusation of "liberal" use of US sanctions. Notably you focus on alleged "liberal" use of sanctions, i.e. quantity, vice whether the sanctions have inherent merit. You earlier stated "Some probably justifiable, many aren't." That takes us back to your clear bias in #1.


3. It's a damn good thing the US has a strong military. The current debacle in Ukraine is only the latest justification for continued strength.

Finally, your purported nexus from sanctions to military interventions is not supported by FACTS.

The entire anti-US trope is finished on RWD. This site will not be used for that purpose. Expect posts containing that message to be removed.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 09:02:01 AM
Well done Dan.


Those posters who use the unwarranted Russian invasion of Ukraine,in which civilians,including women and children,are being killed or made homeless, as an excuse to try and spin it into the wests fault,whilst not even questioning Putin,  are quite frankly nauseating.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 16, 2022, 09:15:38 AM
Well done Dan.


Those posters who use the unwarranted Russian invasion of Ukraine,in which civilians,including women and children,are being killed or made homeless, as an excuse to try and spin it into the wests fault,whilst not even questioning Putin,  are quite frankly nauseating.

I agree.

The other place is disgusting in the way it has become a mouthpiece for pro Putin propagandists and anti west diatribe.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 16, 2022, 09:25:02 AM
My guess is that they can always either pull more Generals from elsewhere or promote others to the position of General. A lot of the invasion plan has likely already been decided and it's not going smoothly. However, Russia has still been making inroads into Ukraine they have Ukraine's largest nuclear power plant, they have many of Ukraine major cities surrounded and seem to be moving slowly into Ukraine. Not exactly Blitzkrieg but remember WWII went on for years and we're only about 20 days into the invasion here. I think Russia has suffered unexpected shortcomings. Their tanks and planes could be more easily neutralised than thought so it mostly just leaves their missile launcher vehicles as their main useful bit of kit. So laying seige and pounding the hell out of cities while the city runs out of food, water and electricity becomes the strategy.

Zelensky reckons they are close to a deal with Russia in peace negotiations. I am not so sure, probably just Putin play a game as he tends to do. The value of the ruble had gone up perhaps on that expectation so possibly Putin is holding out the hope for short term economic improvement. All the while Putin is making some small gains on the ground I don't think he will agree to peace.

Putin of course has Chemical and Hyperthermal weapons at his disposal. He hasn't used them yet and remains uncertain whether he will go to those lengths, let's of course hope not.
Putins war reserves must be getting depleted rapidly given how many areas he’s pounding.

He won’t be able to replenish his munitions as quick as they’re being fired so he must have had a timeline in mind at the commencement of his special military operation invasion.
Of course we know that’s gone by the wayside so small wonder he is negotiating for the best result possible while he still can play the better hand.

I’m still waiting for an explanation of what a hyperthermal weapon is.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 09:36:14 AM
I agree.

The other place is disgusting in the way it has become a mouthpiece for pro Putin propagandists and anti west diatribe.


Yes it is.


Posting on there is akin to trying to hold back the rabid zombiefied pro-Putin horde...with personal insults hurled at anyone who dares to question Putin .


Strange that the vast majority,as on here, choose to live in the west rather than living their dream in Russia eh ? :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 16, 2022, 10:35:05 AM
My guess is that they can always either pull more Generals from elsewhere or promote others to the position of General.

No, you can't always pull generals out of thin air.  There is a set number of generals that exist.  It takes many years of experience to train and develop a general.

Yes, you can take a private and promote him to General, but that doesn't make him a general.  They are just a private in a general's uniform.  Giving someone a promotion does not give them knowledge, skills, and experience.  A promotion is supposed to be evidence of the skills, knowledge, and experience they have.

Promoting an incompetent or under-trained officer to be a General is asking for trouble.  They will get the men under them slaughtered.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 16, 2022, 10:43:00 AM
Putins war reserves must be getting depleted rapidly given how many areas he’s pounding.

He won’t be able to replenish his munitions as quick as they’re being fired so he must have had a timeline in mind at the commencement of his special military operation invasion.

We're already seeing them use special missiles they have never used before.  Some of the missiles had dart objects that are released once missile defenses lock onto the missile.  These darts try to confuse the missile defenses.  From what I can tell, these darts sound similar to flares or chaff that jet fighters have.  They never used these missiles in Syria or anywhere else.

Are they running out of regular missiles, and having to resort to using these?  Now that the US and NATO knows about these darts, they can start developing countermeasures.  I highly doubt Russia wanted the western world to know about these darts.

Russia fired 30 missiles at the Yaroviv military training center.  22 were intercepted.  Supposedly, only 8 missiles hit the base.  Were these defensive darts what prevented the missile defenses from stopping the 8 that got through?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2022, 10:47:53 AM
1. Of course it matters. Your anti-US trope is well-documented in previous posts. Any time you use a term/phrase such as "coerce" or "arm-twisting," the fact that the author has a clear anti-US bias is most definitely relevant. Reference my earlier post re Critical Thinking.
No it doesn't matter.   I've been fair in how I've characterized US efforts. It does equate to coercion and arm twisting.  Not always but often enough to be important.

2. Of course it's important. The fact that only 6 countries having been sanctioned in more than 70 years is relevant to your accusation of "liberal" use of US sanctions. Notably you focus on alleged "liberal" use of sanctions, i.e. quantity, vice whether the sanctions have inherent merit. You earlier stated "Some probably justifiable, many aren't." That takes us back to your clear bias in #1.
You are using the smallest number possible to minimize the US use of sanctions.  When the west (And US) has control over financial system, the sanctions have more bite.  By sanctioning influential people in countries we consider adversaries we can have a real impact so in that respect the sanctions are similar to sanctioning a country. 


The entire anti-US trope is finished on RWD. This site will not be used for that purpose. Expect posts containing that message to be removed.
Your membership will wind up an unbalanced point of view without always keeping in mind that the US has similar strategies as Russia.  Done different when possible because we have the financial strength to conduct war in that arena far better than Russia has.    You have already been removing many posts you don't think are important.  IF the argument is so weak, you shouldn't have to do that.  A counterbalancing post does enough. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2022, 10:57:56 AM
No, you can't always pull generals out of thin air.  There is a set number of generals that exist.  It takes many years of experience to train and develop a general.

Yes, you can take a private and promote him to General, but that doesn't make him a general.  They are just a private in a general's uniform.  Giving someone a promotion does not give them knowledge, skills, and experience.  A promotion is supposed to be evidence of the skills, knowledge, and experience they have.

Promoting an incompetent or under-trained officer to be a General is asking for trouble.  They will get the men under them slaughtered.

Not really talking about taking a private and making him a General but there are other ranks just below a General. Some may be better than the Generals themselves but had others promoted over them based on connections, personal preference, etc. Then of course some Generals may have thinking that is more suited to other ways of warfare, outdated where lower ranks may be more in touch with the form of warfare we are seeing in Ukraine at present.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2022, 10:58:14 AM
with what happened to the FSB, it makes sense that something would also happen with Rosneft

this is from Putin's speech yesterday



The west, Putin said, is betting on the support of a 'fifth column', on "national traitors"... "...on those who make money here, in our country, but live there, and "live" not even in the geographical sense, but in their thoughts, in their consciousness, which is enslaved."

"I don't condemn at all those who have a villa in Miami or on the French Riviera, who cannot do without foie gras, oysters, or so-called 'gender freedoms'. That is absolutely not the problem."

"But, I repeat, the problem is that many of these people are mentally there, not here, not with our people, not with Russia. This is, in their opinion - in their opinion - a sign of belonging to a higher caste, to a higher race.

"Such people are ready to sell their mother, just to be allowed to sit in the hallway of this highest caste. They want to be like it... But they... don't understand that this so-called upper caste needs them only as expendable material to cause maximum damage to our people

But any people, and moreover the Russian people, can always distinguish the true patriots from the scum and traitors, and simply spit them out, like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouth, spit them out on the panel."

"I am convinced that this natural and necessary self-cleansing of society will only strengthen our country, our solidarity, cohesion and readiness to meet any challenge."

“the purge” was subtly announced some time ago…
those who had ears, most definitely did listen

this is the reason my daughters are married to Russians
they both wear golden handcuffs, as do I
but we manage to "make ourselves useful"

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 11:14:24 AM
Fathertime,


You need to spend less time on what the USA does and more time on what this thread is about.


If you want to rant against the west start a thread about it..instead of polluting this thread.


This thread is called "The struggle for Ukraine " for a reason.


Are there USA forces invading and destroying Ukraine..or are they Russian forces ?


What are your thoughts on Russian forces deliberately targeting Civilian residential areas ?


Do you feel that Putin should feel proud of what he's done in Mariupol,Kharkiv,Sumy,Irpin,Chernihiv and now doing in Kiev ?


Do you feel the west should stand by and watch Russia destroy a country and commit genocide against that countries people ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 16, 2022, 11:39:40 AM
1. No it doesn't matter.   I've been fair in how I've characterized US efforts. It does equate to coercion and arm twisting.  Not always but often enough to be important.

2. You are using the smallest number possible to minimize the US use of sanctions.  When the west (And US) has control over financial system, the sanctions have more bite.  By sanctioning influential people in countries we consider adversaries we can have a real impact so in that respect the sanctions are similar to sanctioning a country. 

3. Your membership will wind up an unbalanced point of view without always keeping in mind that the US has similar strategies as Russia.  Done different when possible because we have the financial strength to conduct war in that arena far better than Russia has.   

4. You have already been removing many posts you don't think are important.  IF the argument is so weak, you shouldn't have to do that.  A counterbalancing post does enough. 
Fathertime!

1. You are intentionally re-directing the thread to a focus on your perceptions of US mis-deeds. Your biases are clear. They undermine your arguments.

2. I intentionally pointed you back to the FACTS. You doggedly persist with pursuing your biased agenda.

3. Once again, you fall victim to the use of a logical fallacy, in this case the Appeal to Hypocrisy. Whatever US policies are that parallel Russia, those are irrelevant to events in Ukraine right now.

3a. In terms of unbalanced perspectives, this site has always embraced healthy constructive debate and exchange. The membership is unusually versed in international issues. No one is expected to hide their heads in the sand pertaining to issues affecting the US. The imbalance comes from a shrill few, who, if unfettered, dominate the exchanges with promotion of their agenda which is counter to the mission of the site. That won't stand.

4. The only posts which have been removed are those which were in violation of the RWD Terms of Service. If your goal is to disrupt, the posts will be removed. If your goal is to heckle the membership, the posts will be removed. If your goal is to promote an imbalanced anti-US agenda, the posts will be removed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 16, 2022, 11:59:00 AM
My guess is that they can always either pull more Generals from elsewhere or promote others to the position of General. A lot of the invasion plan has likely already been decided and it's not going smoothly. However, Russia has still been making inroads into Ukraine they have Ukraine's largest nuclear power plant, they have many of Ukraine major cities surrounded and seem to be moving slowly into Ukraine. Not exactly Blitzkrieg but remember WWII went on for years and we're only about 20 days into the invasion here. I think Russia has suffered unexpected shortcomings. Their tanks and planes could be more easily neutralised than thought so it mostly just leaves their missile launcher vehicles as their main useful bit of kit. So laying seige and pounding the hell out of cities while the city runs out of food, water and electricity becomes the strategy.

Zelensky reckons they are close to a deal with Russia in peace negotiations. I am not so sure, probably just Putin play a game as he tends to do. The value of the ruble had gone up perhaps on that expectation so possibly Putin is holding out the hope for short term economic improvement. All the while Putin is making some small gains on the ground I don't think he will agree to peace.

Putin of course has Chemical and Hyperthermal weapons at his disposal. He hasn't used them yet and remains uncertain whether he will go to those lengths, let's of course hope not.

Thermobaric seems to have allegedly  been used sparingly and on military targets initially in this war.

Hopefully that's not true,and hopefully they are not used.
They are as bad as it gets conventionally.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2022, 12:00:42 PM
before it switches to nuclear threats
Russia will need to increase its leverage over the West regarding oil…
after all, it's naval base in Syria was setup to support an operation like this

Russia is going to get Iran to block Hormuz and restrict the global flow of oil, doubling the market price which was already doubled…
this will cripple the western industrial economy which is very dependent on oil

it can also do this to pull China in…   “so, ya want some low priced oil, my friend?  Those raman noodles look de-licious and so do those truck tires, how about a trade, oh and some of those cruise missiles would be oichen hiroshie”

meanwhile, NATO fights Russia, down to the last Ukrainian…
without losing a single NATO soldier, nearly 10% of Russia’s deployed military, has been killed or wounded, and Russia's economy will massively contract…
and Russia's market share of European energy markets is poised to eventually be ZERO!

after this, it’ll just be the USA and China
Russia will have kicked itself to the curb…

expect a period of lawless social collapse on the fringes of Russia, like far east and south…
more anarchy loosed upon the world…
as order is destroyed
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2022, 01:37:26 PM
Well done Dan.


Those posters who use the unwarranted Russian invasion of Ukraine,in which civilians,including women and children,are being killed or made homeless, as an excuse to try and spin it into the wests fault,whilst not even questioning Putin,  are quite frankly nauseating.

I agree CB. I'm surprised this forum is still called 'Russian' Woman Discussion. Doesn't feel right considering all that has been inflicted by Russians on the poor Ukrainian people I think. It's totally horrifying to see the all the bombings the Russian army is doing on innocent civilians and civilian buildings. Let alone the description of what happening to the poor Ukrainians on the recieving end. I'm just glad I'm not there to see it or be subject to it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 16, 2022, 02:08:28 PM
before it switches to nuclear threats
Russia will need to increase its leverage over the West regarding oil…
after all, it's naval base in Syria was setup to support an operation like this

Russia is going to get Iran to block Hormuz and restrict the global flow of oil, doubling the market price which was already doubled…
this will cripple the western industrial economy which is very dependent on oil

it can also do this to pull China in…   “so, ya want some low priced oil, my friend?  Those raman noodles look de-licious and so do those truck tires, how about a trade, oh and some of those cruise missiles would be oichen hiroshie”

meanwhile, NATO fights Russia, down to the last Ukrainian…
without losing a single NATO soldier, nearly 10% of Russia’s deployed military, has been killed or wounded, and Russia's economy will massively contract…
and Russia's market share of European energy markets is poised to eventually be ZERO!

after this, it’ll just be the USA and China
Russia will have kicked itself to the curb…

expect a period of lawless social collapse on the fringes of Russia, like far east and south…
more anarchy loosed upon the world…
as order is destroyed

That's a very possible outcome.

I'd say the straight wont be blocked though, an attempt to block it may happen, iran is unpredictable.

It's a tight straight but I though still center international water,?  Or the UAE side would be passage. If so  blockading it would indeed by sn act of war, of course the misdles they launched at the us consulate  in iraq the other was as well.
We may sit in our hands.
But that's likely a huge red line
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 02:16:03 PM
I agree CB. I'm surprised this forum is still called 'Russian' Woman Discussion. Doesn't feel right considering all that has been inflicted by Russians on the poor Ukrainian people I think. It's totally horrifying to see the all the bombings the Russian army is doing on innocent civilians and civilian buildings. Let alone the description of what happening to the poor Ukrainians on the recieving end. I'm just glad I'm not there to see it or be subject to it.


There are good Russians out there too....4,300 arrested in Russia for protesting against the war.


Some of the Russian troops will be decent people too..they won't all be inhuman monsters relishing what's going on in Ukraine.


Unfortunately within every group of people you'll get wrong un's  and those among the Russian military will enjoy inflicting pain and suffering to Ukrainian civilians with a smirk on their faces...and Putin and his cronies certainly have no souls.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 16, 2022, 03:03:46 PM
with what happened to the FSB, it makes sense that something would also happen with Rosneft

this is from Putin's speech yesterday



The west, Putin said, is betting on the support of a 'fifth column', on "national traitors"... "...on those who make money here, in our country, but live there, and "live" not even in the geographical sense, but in their thoughts, in their consciousness, which is enslaved."

"I don't condemn at all those who have a villa in Miami or on the French Riviera, who cannot do without foie gras, oysters, or so-called 'gender freedoms'. That is absolutely not the problem."

"But, I repeat, the problem is that many of these people are mentally there, not here, not with our people, not with Russia. This is, in their opinion - in their opinion - a sign of belonging to a higher caste, to a higher race.

"Such people are ready to sell their mother, just to be allowed to sit in the hallway of this highest caste. They want to be like it... But they... don't understand that this so-called upper caste needs them only as expendable material to cause maximum damage to our people

But any people, and moreover the Russian people, can always distinguish the true patriots from the scum and traitors, and simply spit them out, like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouth, spit them out on the panel."

"I am convinced that this natural and necessary self-cleansing of society will only strengthen our country, our solidarity, cohesion and readiness to meet any challenge."

“the purge” was subtly announced some time ago…
those who had ears, most definitely did listen

this is the reason my daughters are married to Russians
they both wear golden handcuffs, as do I
but we manage to "make ourselves useful"
What a program! The Great Purge again! The fifth column, the velikaya Rodina is back again!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 03:05:13 PM
1. You are intentionally re-directing the thread to a focus on your perceptions of US mis-deeds. Your biases are clear. They undermine your arguments.

2. I intentionally pointed you back to the FACTS. You doggedly persist with pursuing your biased agenda.

3. Once again, you fall victim to the use of a logical fallacy, in this case the Appeal to Hypocrisy. Whatever US policies are that parallel Russia, those are irrelevant to events in Ukraine right now.

3a. In terms of unbalanced perspectives, this site has always embraced healthy constructive debate and exchange. The membership is unusually versed in international issues. No one is expected to hide their heads in the sand pertaining to issues affecting the US. The imbalance comes from a shrill few, who, if unfettered, dominate the exchanges with promotion of their agenda which is counter to the mission of the site. That won't stand.

4. The only posts which have been removed are those which were in violation of the RWD Terms of Service. If your goal is to disrupt, the posts will be removed. If your goal is to heckle the membership, the posts will be removed. If your goal is to promote an imbalanced anti-US agenda, the posts will be removed.


Interesting conversation.  It seems one group thinks the other group is bias but they are not.  Why is that?  Where are you getting your information that leads you to unbiased conclusions? 

I've seen so much "disinformation" in the past 4 or so years that makes me wonder why anyone would believe anything coming out of the media.  When I say "disinformation", I'm talking about things people were blocked from posting on social media but later came out as true.


Should Ukraine be able to pick and choose it's destination.  Absolutely. 
Should Ukraine be able to choose whether they want a relationship with the west or with Russia.  Absolutely.

Unfortunately, that isn't reality and was never a reality unless the west was going to go to war with Russia.

If you think the West isn't culpable for this than you're showing your bias.  Holding the NATO/EU carrot on a stick didn't help Ukraine at all.  It just made Ukraine believe they had other options when they didn't.  It would have been better for Ukraine if they were told they would never be part of EU/Nato so they could make decisions based on reality.

Weird how Hunter Biden was getting paid all that money from Burisma.  Weird how the same people in the Biden administration was also in the Obama administration when Ukraine went into civil war.  Now we have harmless bio-labs that they are scared of Russia getting control over.  Why are they scared if they aren't bio weapons?   Just a bunch coincidences I am sure and probably showing my bias.  Just like everyone else has their bias.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 03:20:03 PM
Do you feel that Putin should feel proud of what he's done in Mariupol,Kharkiv,Sumy,Irpin,Chernihiv and now doing in Kiev ?


That's Kyiv.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 16, 2022, 03:22:12 PM
According to the Regional Governor cowardly Russian troops have had to take 400 patients and Staff hostage and are holding them in the intensive care Hospital basement.


No wonder Putin is having to lower his demands with his shambolic military having to resort to such tactics...if true.
What is your source? Think for yourself just for a moment. What would the Russian military benefit from doing this? It doesn't make any sense.

It's also contrary to (unverified) reports I have read. Apparently the Azov Battalion are headquartered in the Mariupol Drama Theater and holding civilians hostage in the lobby. They have also, allegedly, occupied two major factories (Ilyich, Azavstal; total 24,000 employees). It has already been demonstrated that the Ukrainian military are taking up positions in civilian locations.

This is not a battle between 'good guys and bad guys'. The Ukrainian military is using guerilla warfare tactics deliberately putting civilians at risk. Foreign mercenaries are being sent to Kyiv with no gear/ammo. It is shambolic. Russia obtains no strategic or tactical benefit from dead civilians, the Ukrainian government does. It's not to say it doesn't happen but wouldn't be central to their planning. It is evident they prefer to lay siege to a city and squeeze it, much like what Krimster was saying.

It's impossible to obtain the truth in the fog of war, but the western narrative is a fairy tale - complete with a Snake Island and "Ghost of Kyiv", LOL. Have the British press reported on all those dead British mercenaries blown up in western Ukraine? LOL, I don't think that is hitting the press...

The hawks at the Pentagon are absolutely love this. Make a killing on arms sales and not put one American soldier at risk. Inflict damage to Russia without directly going to war with them. But at some point the Russian government may decide to put their foot down and drop a nuke in Western Ukraine. Much like the USA in 1945 they'll use the pretext that it was a way to end the conflict sooner than it would have played out. They like using historical references such as the Balkans conflict in the 90s so may decide to "press the button".

The west didn't accept the surrender treaty in 2015 and still won't accept it. The modus operandi of the USA is to drag out the conflict to create a greater number of casualties, because you can stick a fork in Ukraine - it's done.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 03:26:13 PM
Seriously, I'm seeing so much propaganda from both sides that I don't know what to believe.  How is everyone figuring out what is real and what isn't?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 16, 2022, 03:33:14 PM
Seriously, I'm seeing so much propaganda from both sides that I don't know what to believe.  How is everyone figuring out what is real and what isn't?
You have to take all perspectives and then use logic and reasoning (not emotion). The fact that Zelensky has stated Ukraine should drop the idea of NATO membership is to me a sign that they don't have the upper hand in negotiations.

It does appear that the Ukrainian military dropped a cluster bomb on civilians in Donetsk, but it won't appear in western media:

http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/

So much for CB's noble freedom fighters...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 03:38:52 PM
You have to take all perspectives and then use logic and reasoning (not emotion). The fact that Zelensky has stated Ukraine should drop the idea of NATO membership is to me a sign that they don't have the upper hand in negotiations.

It does appear that the Ukrainian military dropped a cluster bomb on civilians in Donetsk, but it won't appear in western media:

http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/ (http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/)

So much for CB's noble freedom fighters...


Zelensky is desperate.  Totally understandable. I don't know about that bomb, but we've seen stories coming out that Russia tried to blow up a nuclear plant in Zapo when it didn't happen.  They need the west to get involved and will do anything to survive.  I don't blame them.  Definitely can't trust Putin.  That is why I don't know how people are sure of themselves.  It does look like quite a few foreigners are getting tricked and signing up for the cause only to find out how bad the situation really is.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 03:39:58 PM

Interesting conversation.  It seems one group thinks the other group is bias but they are not.  Why is that?  Where are you getting your information that leads you to unbiased conclusions? 

I've seen so much "disinformation" in the past 4 or so years that makes me wonder why anyone would believe anything coming out of the media.  When I say "disinformation", I'm talking about things people were blocked from posting on social media but later came out as true.


Should Ukraine be able to pick and choose it's destination.  Absolutely. 
Should Ukraine be able to choose whether they want a relationship with the west or with Russia.  Absolutely.

Unfortunately, that isn't reality and was never a reality unless the west was going to go to war with Russia.

If you think the West isn't culpable for this than you're showing your bias.  Holding the NATO/EU carrot on a stick didn't help Ukraine at all.  It just made Ukraine believe they had other options when they didn't.  It would have been better for Ukraine if they were told they would never be part of EU/Nato so they could make decisions based on reality.

Weird how Hunter Biden was getting paid all that money from Burisma.  Weird how the same people in the Biden administration was also in the Obama administration when Ukraine went into civil war.  Now we have harmless bio-labs that they are scared of Russia getting control over.  Why are they scared if they aren't bio weapons?   Just a bunch coincidences I am sure and probably showing my bias.  Just like everyone else has their bias.


I won't go into "disinformation" regarding the press, though I do know a thing or two about disinformation campaigns.  I recall back in the mid 1980's, suggesting that Sinyavsky and Daniel, two Soviet "dissidents" were fake trials, and both were KGB agents or affiliated with them.  That was not a popular opinion then.  But in the early to mid 1990's, when KGB archives were released by Roy Medvedev, that was absolutely correct.  My point is, most disinformation isn't particularly sophisticated, and can be recognized.


The West is not culpable.  The Ukrainian constitution wasn't written by the West.  It was written by a team of diaspora Ukrainians.  Two I know who were at the forefront were Bohdan Hawrylyshyn and Halyna Freeland.  The US provided funding to build the foundations of government, but it was not the sole source of funds.  Early, Soros provided funding, but eventually was thrown out of the country.  The Canadian government provided funding.  Diaspora Ukrainians provided significant funding, and time.  The Ukrainian banking system, for example, was modeled on Canada's system, and Ukrainians came here to work in banks and learn how to operate banks.


I am not suggesting that things were perfect in Ukraine - far from it.  It's corrupt, but I think with time, that would have lessened, if Ukraine were to join the EU.


Ukraine may become a part of the EU.  NATO was never in the cards.  The reality is that Ukraine was moving away from Russia in terms of freedom, and that is what Putin could not abide.  That and losing Kyiv.


Hunter Biden is a false canard, misunderstood by most Americans.  I have posted in the past about this.  It's also irrelevant to the invasion.


As for the biolabs, if one is studying diseases such as H5N1, the pathogens do need to be controlled.  That doesn't mean there is a nefarious purpose behind the laboratory.   


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 03:47:13 PM
What is your source? Think for yourself just for a moment. What would the Russian military benefit from doing this? It doesn't make any sense.


There are live videos from drones.


Quote
Apparently the Azov Battalion are headquartered in the Mariupol Drama Theater and holding civilians hostage in the lobby. They have also, allegedly, occupied two major factories (Ilyich, Azavstal; total 24,000 employees). It has already been demonstrated that the Ukrainian military are taking up positions in civilian locations.


The theatre was attacked yesterday, is now rubble, and that rubble is blocking a shelter underneath the theatre. The shelter is where civilians were located. They are now blocked in. That’s coming from German sources, complete with photos.


There is a video of a civilian, hands up, being shot by Russian soldiers.  We know as a fact that Russian soldiers shot down 10 civilians lined up to buy bread, and civilians fleeing Irpin, as there are recordings.

Quote
This is not a battle between 'good guys and bad guys'. The Ukrainian military is using guerilla warfare tactics deliberately putting civilians at risk. Foreign mercenaries are being sent to Kyiv with no gear/ammo. It is shambolic. Russia obtains no strategic or tactical benefit from dead civilians, the Ukrainian government does. It's not to say it doesn't happen but wouldn't be central to their planning. It is evident they prefer to lay siege to a city and squeeze it, much like what Krimster was saying.


Well, when you invade a country for no good reason, you own every civilian death, whether or not you are the cause.  Are you really making this argument?

Quote
The hawks at the Pentagon are absolutely love this. Make a killing on arms sales and not put one American soldier at risk. Inflict damage to Russia without directly going to war with them. But at some point the Russian government may decide to put their foot down and drop a nuke in Western Ukraine. Much like the USA in 1945 they'll use the pretext that it was a way to end the conflict sooner than it would have played out. They like using historical references such as the Balkans conflict in the 90s so may decide to "press the button".


Why would the hawks love this?  The US military budget is something like $745 billion.  The Pentagon isn't benefiting from arms sales.  All equipment to Ukraine is paid for by the US government.  The one thing this war has proved is that the Russian military is subpar.

Quote
The west didn't accept the surrender treaty in 2015 and still won't accept it. The modus operandi of the USA is to drag out the conflict to create a greater number of casualties, because you can stick a fork in Ukraine - it's done.


The same has been said for centuries.  Yet, a Ukrainian national identity now exists, and is stronger, after this, than it was before this illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.  Had Russia been ruled by someone smarter (who could advance beyond a major in the KGB), they would have sat back and let economic factors work in their favour.  Instead, they have created a country where tens of millions will never accept Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 03:49:03 PM
You have to take all perspectives and then use logic and reasoning (not emotion). The fact that Zelensky has stated Ukraine should drop the idea of NATO membership is to me a sign that they don't have the upper hand in negotiations.

It does appear that the Ukrainian military dropped a cluster bomb on civilians in Donetsk, but it won't appear in western media:

http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/ (http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/)

So much for CB's noble freedom fighters...


Sure.  A site that refers to Ukrainians as "nazis" is an absolutely credible source of information. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 03:57:19 PM
Here's a more balanced source on the use of cluster bombs.  Presently, each side is blaming the other.  Russia has used cluster bombs in Ukraine, but the Dontesk attack is still unproven on either side.  Hoewever, other cluster munitions have been used in the region by Russia.


http://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2022/03/11/these-are-the-cluster-munitions-documented-by-ukrainian-civilians/ (http://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2022/03/11/these-are-the-cluster-munitions-documented-by-ukrainian-civilians/)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
I will also state that in Kyiv, authorities tell remaining civilians to shelter in bomb shelters.  There are warning sirens for incoming missiles, and people are told to stay in place until they receive an all clear.  They are being asked not to use cellphones during certain hours, I assume, for military purposes. 


The above doesn't sound like a state that would fire on its own civilians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 16, 2022, 04:41:16 PM
There are live videos from drones.
There are live videos from drones of Russians taking civilians as hostages? Haven't seen that. Can you explain to me how it makes sense for the Russian military to take 400 civilians as hostages?

As I said it is impossible to obtain the truth in the fog of war. Neither side have clean skins. The western narrative is clearly tangental. Multiple perspectives need to be considered.

The Ukrainian government has been firing on its citizens for the past eight years. Why do you think they will stop now? Particularly when captured "Ukronazis" will be summarily executed by Russian soldiers.

Tell me, why would the Russian government want to drop a cluster bomb on Donetsk? You're a smart cookie. I'm sure you can either find a logical explanation or realize it was the Ukrainian military?

There are no 'good guys' in this conflict and the Ukrainian leadership has demonstrated a disregard for civilian life. That may not extend to all officials (obviously) but it is intellectually dishonest to ignore the behaviors of the Ukrainian military/SBU, etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 16, 2022, 04:46:54 PM
The above doesn't sound like a state that would fire on its own civilians.
I presume you live a sheltered existence. Every large government would fire on its own civilians. Nothing new in the USA - look up the Bonus Army. The government fired on veterans! Lots of historical examples in Europe. Even more recently look at the treatment of people in Canada and Australia - supposedly "democratic" countries. Not to mention Maidan snipers... or those in Donbass...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 04:47:34 PM

I won't go into "disinformation" regarding the press, though I do know a thing or two about disinformation campaigns.  I recall back in the mid 1980's, suggesting that Sinyavsky and Daniel, two Soviet "dissidents" were fake trials, and both were KGB agents or affiliated with them.  That was not a popular opinion then.  But in the early to mid 1990's, when KGB archives were released by Roy Medvedev, that was absolutely correct.  My point is, most disinformation isn't particularly sophisticated, and can be recognized.


The West is not culpable.  The Ukrainian constitution wasn't written by the West.  It was written by a team of diaspora Ukrainians.  Two I know who were at the forefront were Bohdan Hawrylyshyn and Halyna Freeland.  The US provided funding to build the foundations of government, but it was not the sole source of funds.  Early, Soros provided funding, but eventually was thrown out of the country.  The Canadian government provided funding.  Diaspora Ukrainians provided significant funding, and time.  The Ukrainian banking system, for example, was modeled on Canada's system, and Ukrainians came here to work in banks and learn how to operate banks.


I am not suggesting that things were perfect in Ukraine - far from it.  It's corrupt, but I think with time, that would have lessened, if Ukraine were to join the EU.


Ukraine may become a part of the EU.  NATO was never in the cards.  The reality is that Ukraine was moving away from Russia in terms of freedom, and that is what Putin could not abide.  That and losing Kyiv.


Hunter Biden is a false canard, misunderstood by most Americans.  I have posted in the past about this.  It's also irrelevant to the invasion.


As for the biolabs, if one is studying diseases such as H5N1, the pathogens do need to be controlled.  That doesn't mean there is a nefarious purpose behind the laboratory.


Hi Bo!  :)


I was trying to respond and got timed out. lol

"My point is, most disinformation isn't particularly sophisticated, and can be recognized."

I used to think that until the past 4 years.  People looked like they lost their minds.  People that I thought were intelligent and reasonable.  After some time I saw how the media, along with politicians, were all saying the same thing.  Even the wording was the same.

If you watch this over and over again you will begin to think the same way.  We are assigned our views by what we watch.  I don't believe anyone is immune to this type of programming.  It's just part of how we are wired to get through day by day.  Robert Cialdini wrote some awesome books, on persuasion, talking about this type of stuff

Sorry, I'm not sure what your point about the Ukrainian constitution was.  Is a country a country because of a constitution or whether they can defend their country when attacked?  I wish we were above all of this violence, but maybe it will never happen.

That brings me to the next point about why I brought up Biden and our politicians.  Our funding to other countries tend to make it's way back to our politicians.  Either through family members or other means. 

I don't think it is irrelevant since we are talking about the same people being in charge as when Ukraine went into civil war.  Those military contractors end up hiring our retired generals.  America is corrupt.  Our system makes it that way and really needs to change.  I doubt our elites are doing this to help if there wasn't some kind of incentive for them.  Either monetarily or staying in power.

The really weird thing is I saw a clip on Twitter of Alex Jones saying last year there was going to be a major war in February of this year.  Still trying to wrap my head around that one.  haha


No, the bio labs doesn't necessarily mean nefarious or bio weapons.  It also doesn't mean it is being conducted for the benefit of human kind.  Why would any country want to be next to that type of lab after Covid killed millions of people. Of course, when people stated Covid came from a lab they were labeled disinformation.

I wonder how the USA would handle Russia conducting "research" in Mexico. I know we didn't like missiles in Cuba even though Cuba should be able to decide for themselves.  I don't think it's a stretch to say we should think of others if we want peace.  Even brutal dictators like Putin need to be considered.

Poland just outmaneuvered the US.  The US tried to push Poland into giving Ukraine MIGS.  Poland said they would drop them off at the US base in Germany and they could give the planes to Ukraine.  The US decided it was a bad idea after that.  Why would the US be ok with Poland doing it but then not do it themselves? 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 04:58:25 PM

Sure.  A site that refers to Ukrainians as "nazis" is an absolutely credible source of information. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I'm still trying to wrap my head around the nazis stuff.  Are they talking about that Azov group or are they saying Ukraine government?  Also, I've been reading a lot of things about how citizens in the Donbas region having been tortured.  Is this true or propaganda?  Hard to tell, but I do hope it's just propaganda. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 05:10:02 PM

That's Kyiv.


Wiki says Kyiv OR Kiev.


I prefer Kiev and anyway it's still called Chicken Kiev in the Supermarket here. :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 05:16:36 PM






Should Ukraine be able to pick and choose it's destination.  Absolutely. 
Should Ukraine be able to choose whether they want a relationship with the west or with Russia.  Absolutely.

Unfortunately, that isn't reality and was never a reality unless the west was going to go to war with Russia.

If you think the West isn't culpable for this than you're showing your bias.  Holding the NATO/EU carrot on a stick didn't help Ukraine at all.  It just made Ukraine believe they had other options when they didn't.  It would have been better for Ukraine if they were told they would never be part of EU/Nato so they could make decisions based on reality.




I totally agree....NATO should hang it's head in shame.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 05:21:06 PM
What is your source? Think for yourself just for a moment. What would the Russian military benefit from doing this? It doesn't make any sense.

It's also contrary to (unverified) reports I have read. Apparently the Azov Battalion are headquartered in the Mariupol Drama Theater and holding civilians hostage in the lobby. They have also, allegedly, occupied two major factories (Ilyich, Azavstal; total 24,000 employees). It has already been demonstrated that the Ukrainian military are taking up positions in civilian locations.

This is not a battle between 'good guys and bad guys'. The Ukrainian military is using guerilla warfare tactics deliberately putting civilians at risk. Foreign mercenaries are being sent to Kyiv with no gear/ammo. It is shambolic. Russia obtains no strategic or tactical benefit from dead civilians, the Ukrainian government does. It's not to say it doesn't happen but wouldn't be central to their planning. It is evident they prefer to lay siege to a city and squeeze it, much like what Krimster was saying.

It's impossible to obtain the truth in the fog of war, but the western narrative is a fairy tale - complete with a Snake Island and "Ghost of Kyiv", LOL. Have the British press reported on all those dead British mercenaries blown up in western Ukraine? LOL, I don't think that is hitting the press...

The hawks at the Pentagon are absolutely love this. Make a killing on arms sales and not put one American soldier at risk. Inflict damage to Russia without directly going to war with them. But at some point the Russian government may decide to put their foot down and drop a nuke in Western Ukraine. Much like the USA in 1945 they'll use the pretext that it was a way to end the conflict sooner than it would have played out. They like using historical references such as the Balkans conflict in the 90s so may decide to "press the button".

The west didn't accept the surrender treaty in 2015 and still won't accept it. The modus operandi of the USA is to drag out the conflict to create a greater number of casualties, because you can stick a fork in Ukraine - it's done.


My source is Sky News,BBC and Euro News.....i did end the post by saying " If True " .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2022, 05:25:43 PM

Should Ukraine be able to pick and choose it's destination.  Absolutely. 
Should Ukraine be able to choose whether they want a relationship with the west or with Russia.  Absolutely.

Unfortunately, that isn't reality and was never a reality unless the west was going to go to war with Russia.
 
Lots of people try to escape reality.   
Of course I agree with what should be, but reality is much different. 
Once Russia invaded it seemed pretty clear to me that they would keep escalating. 

Fathertime!   
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 05:32:08 PM
You have to take all perspectives and then use logic and reasoning (not emotion). The fact that Zelensky has stated Ukraine should drop the idea of NATO membership is to me a sign that they don't have the upper hand in negotiations.

It does appear that the Ukrainian military dropped a cluster bomb on civilians in Donetsk, but it won't appear in western media:

http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/ (http://thesaker.is/three-important-missile-strikes/)

So much for CB's noble freedom fighters...


Maybe you can explain the cluster bomb dropped by Russia in Kharkiv ?


Yes the Ukrainians ARE fighting for their freedom.


Last time i looked it was Russia invading Ukraine..or maybe you missed that bit.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 16, 2022, 05:43:06 PM
Poland just outmaneuvered the US.  The US tried to push Poland into giving Ukraine MIGS.  Poland said they would drop them off at the US base in Germany and they could give the planes to Ukraine.  The US decided it was a bad idea after that.  Why would the US be ok with Poland doing it but then not do it themselves? 

Why? Because  America's political leadership is full of cowards.

There is already precedence for a nuclear power to giving fighter aircraft to another nation that is at war with a different nuclear power.

Remember the Vietnam War?  Russia gave North Vietnam tons of weaponry, anti-aircraft defense, and fighter planes to fight the US.  A lot of the fighter planes were piloted by Russians.  Over 1200 US aircraft got shot down.

We never nuked Russia.

Putin isn't the only one who makes the decision to use a nuclear weapon.  There are other individuals involved who know that it would be wrong to attack the US (much less use nukes) if we supplied fighter jets to Ukraine.  Yeah, they'd be unhappy about it, but they also know that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  They gave fighter jets to Vietnam to shoot down US aircraft, so they have no room to complain if the US gave jets to Ukraine.

But Biden doesn't have any intestinal fortitude to stand up to a bully.  He's a coward.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 05:48:10 PM
Lots of people try to escape reality.   
Of course I agree with what should be, but reality is much different. 
Once Russia invaded it seemed pretty clear to me that they would keep escalating. 

Fathertime!


I was reading an article about Putin and how he was bullied as a kid.  He ended up hating bullies and would go after them violently.  He's supposedly a narcissist with violent behavior towards bullies.  I can see it.  I wouldn't be surprised if he views NATO as a bully.  I couldn't say if that was what led him to invade Ukraine but I would guess it was part of it.  It kind of just seems like he exploded and went all in. 

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2022, 05:49:48 PM
What is your source? Think for yourself just for a moment. What would the Russian military benefit from doing this? It doesn't make any sense




Seriously you can't see how it would make any sense ?


Imagine you're in a group of Russian soldiers advancing into Mariupol.


You come under heavy fire taking heavy losses..and you see that the Hospital is nearby and gives cover from the incoming Bullets flying around your head.


You and the remaining survivors manage to get to the Hospital ,find staff and patients in there, and hold them hostage against the Ukrainian soldiers or your dreaded Azov Battalion coming in and slaughtering you and your mates...whilst you wait for reinforcements to arrive.


It ain't rocket science  :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 05:51:04 PM
Why? Because  America's political leadership is full of cowards.

There is already precedence for a nuclear power to giving fighter aircraft to another nation that is at war with a different nuclear power.

Remember the Vietnam War?  Russia gave North Vietnam tons of weaponry, anti-aircraft defense, and fighter planes to fight the US.  A lot of the fighter planes were piloted by Russians.  Over 1200 US aircraft got shot down.

We never nuked Russia.

Putin isn't the only one who makes the decision to use a nuclear weapon.  There are other individuals involved who know that it would be wrong to attack the US (much less use nukes) if we supplied fighter jets to Ukraine.  Yeah, they'd be unhappy about it, but they also know that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  They gave fighter jets to Vietnam to shoot down US aircraft, so they have no room to complain if the US gave jets to Ukraine.

But Biden doesn't have any intestinal fortitude to stand up to a bully.  He's a coward.


You might be right Bee Farmer.  Though, if Russia attacked Poland we would have to respond so why would it matter if Poland did it or we did it?  Russia knows NATO would have to respond if they went after Poland.  That is why it didn't make sense to me to push Poland into doing it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 16, 2022, 06:49:40 PM
Though, if Russia attacked Poland we would have to respond so why would it matter if Poland did it or we did it?  Russia knows NATO would have to respond if they went after Poland.  That is why it didn't make sense to me to push Poland into doing it.

I don't understand how you think anyone was pushing Poland into giving Ukraine their Migs.  That was a no-brainer on Poland's part.  Why wouldn't they want to give Ukraine their Migs if they could upgrade to F-16's?

It's surprising to me that anyone would even ask why Poland would transfer the Migs to the US, and then the US would transfer the planes to Ukraine.  I'm going to assume that you're not being facetious, so I will answer.

Poland doesn't have a military strong enough to fight Russia on their own.  Yes, NATO is required to respond, but by the time NATO reacts, Russia could have inflicted severe damage to Poland and possibly taken control of parts of Poland.  Russia has a ton of missiles that can reach Poland.  Not only that, once NATO did mobilize, Russia could call for a cease-fire and negotiations.  Russia could quite possibly end up getting to keep any territorial gains they had made in Poland.  Poland also is not a nuclear power - Russia could theoretically nuke Poland...and then what?  (Can the US use nukes in response to a NATO member state being nuked, or can we only use nukes if the US is nuked?)

Keep in mind that NATO is a paper agreement.  For the most part (excluding the US) it is a joke, just like the EU military defense.  You basically have a group of cheerleaders with pom-poms telling each other that they have their backs.  None of them want to fight.  They think they can get away with having a weak military, since everyone else will protect them.  They aren't bright enough to realize that everyone else thinks the same way and has a weak military too.  Without the US military, NATO is meaningless.

Now if US transfers the planes, since America is across the ocean, Russia is more limited in what missiles they could use to attack the US.  A land invasion would be almost impossible.  Russia's bombers would have a hard time flying to America for bombing runs, assuming they could knock out our air defenses.  America is a nuclear power, and can immediately retaliate with nukes in the event of a nuclear attack.  If Russia attacked America, we don't need to wait around for NATO bureaucracy to mount a defense.  America has enough military force to immediately defend ourselves.  For all intents and purposes, America is NATO. 

Think of it this way.  Imagine a really wimpy kid who has a badass friend.  Nobody will mess with that wimpy kid, because they know the friend will protect them.  But if that wimpy kid annoys someone bad enough, they will get their butt beat.  Yes, the friend may get revenge and beat them up, but the wimpy kid still got a beatdown.  Poland doesn't want to be the wimpy kid who gets a severe beating, even if their friend will get revenge afterwards.  The damage inflicted can still be quite painful.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 16, 2022, 07:53:42 PM
Hey Bee Farmer,


No, I wasn't be facetious.  I understand why Poland was interested in giving up the MIGS.  Your comment confirmed what it looked like to me.  The US was trying to set up Poland to be the scapegoat so to speak.  Luckily Poland didn't fall for it and called their bluff as they have a lot more to lose being in harms way. 


Regarding the use of nukes... I think if Russia used any nukes to attack Poland it will be instant nuclear war.  The US won't sit around and wonder if they are next. I also wouldn't think Russia would stop with Poland anyway. 


I appreciate the response from you and others.  It helps me see where I might be making mistakes with my thought process.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 16, 2022, 10:24:29 PM
LFU- 
my.take:
I think you guys are forgetting Poland borders kaliningrad, russia is on their  very doorstep,with military bases there and nuke capable jets etc.

But yes if Russua nuked poland there is zero doubt they would receive in return.


Quote
I wonder how the USA would handle Russia conducting "research" in Mexico. I know we didn't like missiles in Cuba even though Cuba should be able to decide for themselves.  I don't think it's a stretch to say we should think of others if we want peace.  Even brutal dictators like Putin need to be considered.

We did lots of diry deeds in. Cuba, but we did not invade and demilitarize and set up a favourable regime.(although we tried in other.ways)
It would have been easy for us to over run it.

That said  the reasons we cared then ,were before the reach of  newer ICBMs,  and later responce time of defense systems so it was critical  the distance missles were located from.a country.
We did secretly agree at that time to pull our nukes out of Turkey, which is really why the standoff deesculated.

Now with the missle reach  thats capable  and the  nuke sub capabilities its really mostly a mute point ,other than missle defense systems reactive times.

I still do not buy that there are  u.s. bio weapons/warfare labs in ukraine.
Bio labs yes,  bio weapons no.
It makes zero sense to have them.there.
You dont need to develop a deadlier strain of a bio weapon in close proximity to your adversary.
You dont do it in your enemies common language culture. Or doorstep
You do not  do so in an unstable area that has on going conflicts,civil war  and reasonable chance of the adversary invading.
Its stupid.its beyond stupid.
If russia had proof they would show it.period.
It's a game changer at the negotiation table they attend.daily.


As far as nazism.
There is a azov battalion, that leans neo nazi as part of the.Ukrainian guard, it wascfirmedcas a militia when the.troubles started in donbas.

The separatist troubles were started, stirred,and quickly led by russian funded  neo nazi paramilitary groups like wagner pmc,task force ruscich etc, their.leader was a former GRU lieutenant colonel ,and completely neo nazi with ss epilates tattooed in his collar bones. He was decorated at a Kremlin reception for his performance in donbas, so dont let.the nazi claims distract you. Putin  is  just.fine with using nazis,as long as they are doing his bidding.


Quote
The Ukrainian government has been firing on its citizens for the past eight years. Why do you think they will stop now? Particularly when captured "Ukronazis" will be summarily executed by Russian soldiers.
Early in 14 troubles the  Russian Wagner pmc burned.and mutilated 17 Ukrainian military soldiers they captured. In.maripol, this is the city the Ukrainian azov battalion sprang up.  Was it in responce? So chicken or the egg stiff
Girken, a russian leader also ordered the execution of a  regional official, intentional  sparking.the  entire violent conflict.

As far as *its citizens* you seem.to be implying Russian citizens.

They would be citizens of Ukraine  in Ukraine,  with russian funded  separatist guerillas trying to break away  that section.
Ukraine being sovereign had every right to try and  put down a russian funded rebellion , people forget it was Ukraine,Ukrainians live.there.
Regardless thier various politucal slants.
The fighting got dirty,civilian casualties happen,sadly and no real.justification on either side for it.
 
Quote
Tell me, why would the Russian government want to drop a cluster bomb on Donetsk? You're a smart cookie. I'm sure you can either find a logical explanation or realize it was the Ukrainian military?

Possibly,  but
How many times does Russia need to  have knowingly false.flag for that to.also be considered a real possibility  .?

How quickly a Malaysian airliner is forgotten.
Or ask.the fins how they got in a war with russia back.in the day  without.firing.a shot initially.

As far as Russua possibly targeting ukranian civilians,  its fear and intimidation.
 Facing a hostile occupation even if temporary,  you better get fear  of consequences burned into the 40.million populace fast, if you plan to not have anarchy  trying to hold it.with.90k troops.
🤷‍♂️






 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 17, 2022, 02:43:11 AM
In many of these discussions, I note efforts to either justify or critique current actions with somewhat similar actions in the past.  I've done so as well, so not throwing stones with this post. But I have learned to recognize when I do and think twice before hitting the post button.

I used to balk at history classes in high school, thinking such is useless.  Teachers tried to tell me that the value of history is learning from past mistakes.  The older I get, the more I agree and am more interested in history today than years ago.  It helps provide proper context and the ability to identify and not repeat past mistakes. OTOH I am mistaken when leveraging past history to justify actions that I know are wrong.

In discourse, I find using past mistakes to justify or judge current actions is not constructive and hinders progress.  I recognize Ukraine has a checkered history regarding precursors to this crisis, as does Russia, the EU, and the US.  Heck, any country for that matter.

For example, Putin's history lesson a short while back, declaring Ukraine is historically a part of Russia and thus does not have the right to be independent.  His claim is as absurd as the image below.

(http://i.postimg.cc/rpbL7n9j/589e3a0a-9960-4630-bc1d-f3eacc232b15.jpg)

His claim that he is somehow aiding Ukraine to rid the 'territory' of bad actors is also faulty.  There would be very little resistance or need to exert military force if true.

Putin's failure or inability to accept that Ukraine and many former USSR countries are moving on is the root of his perceived problem.  It matters not what the US or NATO or China or any other country did or did not do in the past.  Having to resort to false propaganda and officially muting opposition voices of citizens in Russia is evidence that more is amiss within than outside RU.

Ukraine did not invade or even present a credible offensive military risk to Russia.  Neither does NATO nor the US, who have drawn down forces over past decades.  This downsizing trend will reverse now but poses no offensive military threat to Russia. The only encroaching threat that confronts Putin is his dwindling political power and ever-increasing difficulties maintaining his charade.

So yeah, look back in history and learn, but don't let it define the future, which is exactly what Putin is doing.







Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 17, 2022, 03:56:24 AM
In many of these discussions, I note efforts to either justify or critique current actions with somewhat similar actions in the past.  I've done so as well, so not throwing stones with this post. But I have learned to recognize when I do and think twice before hitting the post button.

I used to balk at history classes in high school, thinking such is useless.  Teachers tried to tell me that the value of history is learning from past mistakes.  The older I get, the more I agree and am more interested in history today than years ago.  It helps provide proper context and the ability to identify and not repeat past mistakes. OTOH I am mistaken when leveraging past history to justify actions that I know are wrong.

In discourse, I find using past mistakes to justify or judge current actions is not constructive and hinders progress.  I recognize Ukraine has a checkered history regarding precursors to this crisis, as does Russia, the EU, and the US.  Heck, any country for that matter.

For example, Putin's history lesson a short while back, declaring Ukraine is historically a part of Russia and thus does not have the right to be independent.  His claim is as absurd as the image below.

(http://i.postimg.cc/rpbL7n9j/589e3a0a-9960-4630-bc1d-f3eacc232b15.jpg)

His claim that he is somehow aiding Ukraine to rid the 'territory' of bad actors is also faulty.  There would be very little resistance or need to exert military force if true.

Putin's failure or inability to accept that Ukraine and many former USSR countries are moving on is the root of his perceived problem.  It matters not what the US or NATO or China or any other country did or did not do in the past.  Having to resort to false propaganda and officially muting opposition voices of citizens in Russia is evidence that more is amiss within than outside RU.

Ukraine did not invade or even present a credible offensive military risk to Russia.  Neither does NATO nor the US, who have drawn down forces over past decades.  This downsizing trend will reverse now but poses no offensive military threat to Russia. The only encroaching threat that confronts Putin is his dwindling political power and ever-increasing difficulties maintaining his charade.

So yeah, look back in history and learn, but don't let it define the future, which is exactly what Putin is doing.
+1
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 17, 2022, 07:28:11 AM
I understand why Poland was interested in giving up the MIGS.  Your comment confirmed what it looked like to me.  The US was trying to set up Poland to be the scapegoat so to speak.  Luckily Poland didn't fall for it and called their bluff as they have a lot more to lose being in harms way. 

Where are you coming up with this narrative that the US was trying to set Poland up as a scapegoat?  I get the impression that you think the US was trying to instigate Poland into giving Ukraine Migs.

From what I understand some NATO countries (Poland, Hungary, etc.) had expressed a willingness to send Mig-29's to Ukraine along with other military weaponry.  But the devil is always in the details.  Poland wanted to give Ukraine their Migs, but said it would deplete their air force, and asked the US if they could buy F-16's to backfill and replace the Migs.  The Pentagon and US diplomats were in favor of providing F-16's to Poland.

As they worked out final details of how the transfer would be made, Joe Biden turns into a scared chicken and says no to the transfer.  He starts spouting garbage about how all decisions have to be made by NATO.  He forgets that the US is allowed to act by itself.  (It wasn't NATO agreeing to provide F-16's...it was the US.)

I don't know where you come up with the narrative of the US trying to set up Poland.  If Biden hadn't said no, the jets would have been transferred to the US at Ramstein and then flown to Ukraine.  The only fly in the ointment was Biden.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 07:28:17 AM
LFU- 
my.take:
I think you guys are forgetting Poland borders kaliningrad, russia is on their  very doorstep,with military bases there and nuke capable jets etc.

But yes if Russua nuked poland there is zero doubt they would receive in return.




I hear you.  That is why I think Poland was smart to do what they did. 

Quote
I still do not buy that there are  u.s. bio weapons/warfare labs in ukraine.
Bio labs yes,  bio weapons no.
It makes zero sense to have them.there.
You dont need to develop a deadlier strain of a bio weapon in close proximity to your adversary.
You dont do it in your enemies common language culture. Or doorstep
You do not  do so in an unstable area that has on going conflicts,civil war  and reasonable chance of the adversary invading.
Its stupid.its beyond stupid.
If russia had proof they would show it.period.
It's a game changer at the negotiation table they attend.daily.


I'd like to know if the US was involved like they were with the Wuhan lab.

Quote
As far as nazism.
There is a azov battalion, that leans neo nazi as part of the.Ukrainian guard, it wascfirmedcas a militia when the.troubles started in donbas.

The separatist troubles were started, stirred,and quickly led by russian funded  neo nazi paramilitary groups like wagner pmc,task force ruscich etc, their.leader was a former GRU lieutenant colonel ,and completely neo nazi with ss epilates tattooed in his collar bones. He was decorated at a Kremlin reception for his performance in donbas, so dont let.the nazi claims distract you. Putin  is  just.fine with using nazis,as long as they are doing his bidding.




Sure, Putin probably doesn't care about neo-nazis just like the US doesn't care about arming them when they are advantageous.  I'm seeing the same people warning about arming the Azov battalion with modern weapons when Trump was in office only to cheer for it now.  It's all political theater man.  lol
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 07:29:59 AM
So yeah, look back in history and learn, but don't let it define the future, which is exactly what Putin is doing.


History is constantly repeating itself because the actions of certain countries never change.  There is a good chance this war could have been stopped before it began.  The constant "Russia is bad" thumping from the US politicians makes things worst.  Russia is our boogey man that is being used to scare people.  Why would Russia not think Nato is a security risk when all they hear, from the US, is how terrible they are and they need to be stopped.  We don't have to like Putin, but we sure should try to get along with him.  Maybe it wouldn't have changed things, but what I am seeing right now is downright heartbreaking. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 07:37:09 AM
Where are you coming up with this narrative that the US was trying to set Poland up as a scapegoat?  I get the impression that you think the US was trying to instigate Poland into giving Ukraine Migs.

From what I understand some NATO countries (Poland, Hungary, etc.) had expressed a willingness to send Mig-29's to Ukraine along with other military weaponry.  But the devil is always in the details.  Poland wanted to give Ukraine their Migs, but said it would deplete their air force, and asked the US if they could buy F-16's to backfill and replace the Migs.  The Pentagon and US diplomats were in favor of providing F-16's to Poland.

As they worked out final details of how the transfer would be made, Joe Biden turns into a scared chicken and says no to the transfer.  He starts spouting garbage about how all decisions have to be made by NATO.  He forgets that the US is allowed to act by itself.  (It wasn't NATO agreeing to provide F-16's...it was the US.)

I don't know where you come up with the narrative of the US trying to set up Poland.  If Biden hadn't said no, the jets would have been transferred to the US at Ramstein and then flown to Ukraine.  The only fly in the ointment was Biden.


Poland wouldn't do anything without the US approval.  The US even threw in some F-16's if Poland would give Ukraine their Migs.  Not a bad enticement for Poland to arm Ukraine.  The US was in favor of this up until Poland offered to hand over the Migs to the US base in Germany so they could give them to Ukraine .  All of a sudden it wasn't a good idea and the US rejected that plan.  I'm having a hard time seeing this any other way to be honest.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 17, 2022, 07:59:25 AM
As someone posted here before:

During Vietnam, Russia provided planes and even pilots to North Vietnam to attack U.S. forces.  We didn't threaten Russia with a nuclear attack and did not conduct a nuclear attack on Russia.

Straight analogy to the current situation of Poland or Poland and U.S. providing planes to heroic Ukrainians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 17, 2022, 08:01:55 AM
Quote
I'd like to know why they were there.  Was what they were studying only found in Ukraine.  It's just strange to be seeing more of these labs pop up after Covid killed so many people.

They are everywhere. Hungary, Poland ,China,  etc etc  etc
Beo posted links to the contractors  website stating they were starting work on one when they got the bid,hardly secret.

Most were  prior to covid, but with covid the incredible amount of funding became available to build or update or refurbish most any biolab anywhere to research covid19, so I don't find it the least bit strange.In fact covid upped the need for it dramatically.

Those labs often collaborate amongst many nations  on all kinds of  work. Dna sequencing ,plant,  animal medical research, historical research etc.

The lab in Hungary(?) Subcontractually working on prior soil samples taken in Antarctica, from a China lab (not Wuhan) found sar2/ covid19.
  The samples were thought to be cross contaminated at the China lab before transfer. The catch is those samples were transfered pre outbreak. As far.as I've followed they are still working in this,but it's an example of the wide spread collaboration on simple things like soil samples and across thousands of biolabs everywhere.

I find it telling they are claiming multiple bio warfare .
Medical research would have need of many,
exactly how many high security.level  bio warfare labs do you need to fund and be effienct in research?

You need a LOT if you want maximum press impact for finding them*

You don't need a dozen in Ukraine, in an unstable area to develope bio weapons

They more they claim found,they more it looks a ploy.

I've stated why I believe Russia is just trying to use this as post justification.

Flash words like nazism,biolab  ,nukes.
Gain more traction even if zero actial proof, a grain of evidence of what might be construed as such, is enough  to be effective,even if only for a short time.
Continued deflection is about the only game they have media wise, what else would we expect?


I predicted they would *find  nuclear labs working on turning nuclear plant fuel into dirty bombs. Another fantasy and unrealistic.
Yet some reports have claimed that now also.

Its absolutely a media and political  circus.


Meanwhile peoples lives and livelihoods are destroyed.
:(
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 17, 2022, 08:10:07 AM
The proposed arms shipments are significantly less provocative than the Soviets killing Americans in North Korea and Vietnam.

http://thefederalist.com/2022/03/10/sending-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-raises-the-specter-of-the-cold-war/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 08:11:42 AM
Appreciate the post Jumper.  I'm completely ignorant on these bio-labs.  After the covid virus and hearing talk about "gain-of-function" makes my eyebrows raise wondering what the heck is going on. lol
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 17, 2022, 08:20:50 AM

History is constantly repeating itself because the actions of certain countries never change.  There is a good chance this war could have been stopped before it began.  The constant "Russia is bad" thumping from the US politicians makes things worst.  Russia is our boogey man that is being used to scare people.  Why would Russia not think Nato is a security risk when all they hear, from the US, is how terrible they are and they need to be stopped.  We don't have to like Putin, but we sure should try to get along with him.  Maybe it wouldn't have changed things, but what I am seeing right now is downright heartbreaking.

Yet the only realistic danger to Russia is them being confined to their existing borders.
Should he be.heard? Sure
Where his demands reasonable?  no.

This harping of his on Ukraine being  eu nato ,is more about russia losing the that sphere of influence .
Nato countries latvia , Estonia ,are already on his border for decades and just as reasonably close to st pete/ Moscow. Notvto.mention kaliningrad surrounded by nato and coexisting  fine.
They do not have nuclear missles .
Its unnecessary in thier position and modern times.

 I think this is about control of ukraine
( he is pissed its not his puppet) ,the black sea , influence in Europe.
Are those legit Russian concerns?
Sure, but
Only if we negate ukraine being sovereign ,and having the right to
lean towards EU as most eastern European countries have done.

They gave up nukes  in a big way for this possibility of continued  sovereignty.

I'd be (and am) bitter at all parties involved.
None of this would be going on if  the parties had honored the agreement.
Or if Ukraine kept the nukes.
They are the only party that kept thier part of the  agreement,one that was already  lopsided  in the favor of the other signatories.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 17, 2022, 08:29:58 AM

Poland wouldn't do anything without the US approval.  The US even threw in some F-16's if Poland would give Ukraine their Migs.  Not a bad enticement for Poland to arm Ukraine.  The US was in favor of this up until Poland offered to hand over the Migs to the US base in Germany so they could give them to Ukraine .  All of a sudden it wasn't a good idea and the US rejected that plan.  I'm having a hard time seeing this any other way to be honest.

The US did NOT throw in some F-16's if Poland would give their Migs to Ukraine.  That is a lie. 

NATO had a meeting.  They talked about what weaponry Ukraine needed, and the individual member states made a list of what weaponry they had which they would be willing to let Ukraine have.

Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia all had Mig-29 Fulcrums they would be willing to send to Ukraine.

Then they started backpedaling. 
Hungary just went silent on the issue. 
Slovakia said they would be willing to give their Migs to Ukraine, if they could finalize the details on an agreement for Poland to provide air defense of Slovakia.
Poland said they would give their Migs to Ukraine, but it would deplete their air force, and wanted to know if the US would sell it F-16's to replace the Migs.

The US started scrambling to see if this was possible.  The F-16's that Poland already has are older models, and do not have all the updated electronics of the new F-16's.  The US had to decide if they would be willing to let Poland have F-16's with newer avionics, or if they would have to remove the newer electronics and replace them with the older versions, and how long it would take to get the older electronics and installed.  (I never heard the final decision, if Poland would get newer avionics, or older.)  The US finally decided they could sell Poland F-16's to replace the Migs.

As they were finalizing the details of the transfer, Biden said no.

There was no US throwing in F-16's to sweeten the pot to convince Poland to give Ukraine their old Migs.  That was something Poland requested after they said they were willing to give their Migs to Ukraine.  Even then, the US was reluctant to agree to it, until it could be decided which avionics package we could supply Poland with.

Slovakia and Hungary were originally both open to giving their Migs to Ukraine.  I'm sure they would have loved to get F-16's if the US was offering F-16's to make the deal.  I have never heard a single report that Slovakia or Hungary ever asked for F-16's, or were offered F-16's.

I don't know why you think Poland needs the US's permission to do anything.  This was originally a NATO meeting of member states where Poland offered their Migs to Ukraine.  This was not originally a Poland/US discussion about the Migs.  The US only became a party to the transaction when Poland asked if the US could replace the Migs with US F-16's.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 08:40:32 AM
The US did NOT throw in some F-16's if Poland would give their Migs to Ukraine.  That is a lie. 


I appreciate you setting me straight.  No need to accuse people of lying. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 08:52:51 AM
Yet the only realistic danger to Russia is them being confined to their existing borders.
Should he be.heard? Sure
Where his demands reasonable?  no.

This harping of his on Ukraine being  eu nato ,is more about russia losing the that sphere of influence .
Nato countries latvia , Estonia ,are already on his border for decades and just as reasonably close to st pete/ Moscow. Notvto.mention kaliningrad surrounded by nato and coexisting  fine.
They do not have nuclear missles .
Its unnecessary in thier position and modern times.

 I think this is about control of ukraine
( he is pissed its not his puppet) ,the black sea , influence in Europe.
Are those legit Russian concerns?
Sure, but
Only if we negate ukraine being sovereign ,and having the right to
lean towards EU as most eastern European countries have done.

They gave up nukes  in a big way for this possibility of continued  sovereignty.

I'd be (and am) bitter at all parties involved.
None of this would be going on if  the parties had honored the agreement.
Or if Ukraine kept the nukes.
They are the only party that kept thier part of the  agreement,one that was already  lopsided  in the favor of the other signatories.


I don't know, man, hearing talks about missile defense systems being put near your border isn't something any country would feel comfortable with.  We should have tried to deescalated the situation instead of constantly poking the bear.  Ukraine definitely should have kept their nukes.  I hope other countries realize they need to put themselves first and not rely on someone else coming to their aid.  Like I said, this has been ongoing for a long time and now we see people losing their lives over what I believe could have been prevented through diplomacy.


In an ideal world, Ukraine should be able to determine their destiny.  I don't see that as reality unless you have the ability to deter thugs like Putin.  I definitely pray for Ukraine and hope for the best.  I just keep replaying, in my head, how we might have been able to avoid all of this.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 17, 2022, 09:01:44 AM
As someone posted here before:

During Vietnam, Russia provided planes and even pilots to North Vietnam to attack U.S. forces.  We didn't threaten Russia with a nuclear attack and did not conduct a nuclear attack on Russia.

Straight analogy to the current situation of Poland or Poland and U.S. providing planes to heroic Ukrainians.

It is a decent comparison for a person to make but the reason I don't think it applies directly is the US probably never felt it was backed against a wall.   In this situation Russia will feel that they are.  It appears Russia will throw everything they have into this war with their neighbor.   Vietnam was an obscure country across the globe from the US.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 17, 2022, 09:19:12 AM

I don't know, man, hearing talks about missile defense systems being put near your border isn't something any country would feel comfortable with.  We should have tried to deescalated the situation instead of constantly poking the bear.  Ukraine definitely should have kept their nukes.  I hope other countries realize they need to put themselves first and not rely on someone else coming to their aid.  Like I said, this has been ongoing for a long time and now we see people losing their lives over what I believe could have been prevented through diplomacy.


In an ideal world, Ukraine should be able to determine their destiny.  I don't see that as reality unless you have the ability to deter thugs like Putin.  I definitely pray for Ukraine and hope for the best.  I just keep replaying, in my head, how we might have been able to avoid all of this.


Should have, would have, could have, might have .... none of it is useful. Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy directly addresses this line of thinking. More and more it looks like these sorts of analyses are the result of (and contribute to) wide-spread social anxiety. It is not helpful in addressing the here and now with a cold-eyed assessment.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 17, 2022, 09:53:20 AM
The US did NOT throw in some F-16's if Poland would give their Migs to Ukraine.  That is a lie. 

NATO had a meeting.  They talked about what weaponry Ukraine needed, and the individual member states made a list of what weaponry they had which they would be willing to let Ukraine have.

Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia all had Mig-29 Fulcrums they would be willing to send to Ukraine.

Then they started backpedaling. 
Hungary just went silent on the issue. 
Slovakia said they would be willing to give their Migs to Ukraine, if they could finalize the details on an agreement for Poland to provide air defense of Slovakia.
Poland said they would give their Migs to Ukraine, but it would deplete their air force, and wanted to know if the US would sell it F-16's to replace the Migs.


The US started scrambling to see if this was possible.  The F-16's that Poland already has are older models, and do not have all the updated electronics of the new F-16's.  The US had to decide if they would be willing to let Poland have F-16's with newer avionics, or if they would have to remove the newer electronics and replace them with the older versions, and how long it would take to get the older electronics and installed.  (I never heard the final decision, if Poland would get newer avionics, or older.)  The US finally decided they could sell Poland F-16's to replace the Migs.

As they were finalizing the details of the transfer, Biden said no.

There was no US throwing in F-16's to sweeten the pot to convince Poland to give Ukraine their old Migs.  That was something Poland requested after they said they were willing to give their Migs to Ukraine.  Even then, the US was reluctant to agree to it, until it could be decided which avionics package we could supply Poland with.

Slovakia and Hungary were originally both open to giving their Migs to Ukraine.  I'm sure they would have loved to get F-16's if the US was offering F-16's to make the deal.  I have never heard a single report that Slovakia or Hungary ever asked for F-16's, or were offered F-16's.

I don't know why you think Poland needs the US's permission to do anything.  This was originally a NATO meeting of member states where Poland offered their Migs to Ukraine.  This was not originally a Poland/US discussion about the Migs.  The US only became a party to the transaction when Poland asked if the US could replace the Migs with US F-16's.

Many countries are rushing to provide assistance to Ukraine. In that vein many options are presented and discussed. Deeper analysis parses out some options in favor of better ones. Looking at the transfer of some 25 - 30 MiG29s which were initially commissioned for East Germany when it was still a vassal of the Soviet Union, there were modernization issues to be considered as well as compatibility issues to be sure Ukrainian pilots could fly them, but also so that NATO countries would not misidentify them as enemy.


The question of how effective those fighter/attack aircraft might be in suppression of the current Russian attacks became a major consideration. Russian missile attacks are being launched from Russian aircraft flying in Russian airspace. Ukraine's ability to engage Russian aircraft in Russian airspace is not realistic given Russia's superior air defenses. Notably, a No-Fly Zone over Ukraine would suffer the same limitation as missiles fired from Russian airspace would not be suppressed by a No-Fly Zone over Ukraine. Ukraine reportedly still has more than half of it's fighter/attack aircraft fleet operational. NATO/EU assessment is that Ukraine airspace is at parity even yet. In other words, Ukraine is not yet running short of aircraft to fly sorties. Ukraine already must employ numerous tactics to be able to take to the skies to avoid Russian anti-air systems. Additional aircraft will have little, if any, impact in Ukrainian skies right now. Advanced anti-air systems, however, will be immediately impactful.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2022, 12:39:39 PM

Hi Bo!  :)
Nice to "see" you.

Quote
I was trying to respond and got timed out. lol

"My point is, most disinformation isn't particularly sophisticated, and can be recognized."

I used to think that until the past 4 years.  People looked like they lost their minds.  People that I thought were intelligent and reasonable.  After some time I saw how the media, along with politicians, were all saying the same thing.  Even the wording was the same.

If you watch this over and over again you will begin to think the same way.  We are assigned our views by what we watch.  I don't believe anyone is immune to this type of programming.  It's just part of how we are wired to get through day by day.  Robert Cialdini wrote some awesome books, on persuasion, talking about this type of stuff

Sorry, I'm not sure what your point about the Ukrainian constitution was.  Is a country a country because of a constitution or whether they can defend their country when attacked?  I wish we were above all of this violence, but maybe it will never happen.


Hmmm.  I don't watch television news.  I read a number of online newspapers (I go directly to their sites), across the spectrum.  Relatively few are American, though.

Quote
That brings me to the next point about why I brought up Biden and our politicians.  Our funding to other countries tend to make it's way back to our politicians.  Either through family members or other means.

But Hunter Biden had no role in shielding Burisma's founder from prosecution.

Quote
I don't think it is irrelevant since we are talking about the same people being in charge as when Ukraine went into civil war.  Those military contractors end up hiring our retired generals.  America is corrupt.  Our system makes it that way and really needs to change.  I doubt our elites are doing this to help if there wasn't some kind of incentive for them.  Either monetarily or staying in power.

I would not call 2014 a civil war.  If you are referring to driving Yanukovych from power, those were protests, and they were peaceful until Yanukovych ordered police to shoot protestors.  That is why he had to flee the country.  Had he not turned to violence, he probably would have stayed in power.  America had nothing to do with the protests in 2014.  They were entirely homegrown.

Quote
The really weird thing is I saw a clip on Twitter of Alex Jones saying last year there was going to be a major war in February of this year.  Still trying to wrap my head around that one.  haha


Even a stopped watch is right twice a day.  Or, maybe he is compromised.  Zhirinovsky talked about the invasion of Ukraine two years ago, with details that proved true.

Quote
No, the bio labs doesn't necessarily mean nefarious or bio weapons.  It also doesn't mean it is being conducted for the benefit of human kind.  Why would any country want to be next to that type of lab after Covid killed millions of people. Of course, when people stated Covid came from a lab they were labeled disinformation.


Every country with an educated population has bio labs that examine disease and the prevention thereof.  In Canada, there are two run by the federal government, and probably many others within university environments.   Without these labs, we would not have vaccines.  Russia, unlike Ukraine, has actual bioweapon labs.

Quote
I wonder how the USA would handle Russia conducting "research" in Mexico. I know we didn't like missiles in Cuba even though Cuba should be able to decide for themselves.  I don't think it's a stretch to say we should think of others if we want peace.  Even brutal dictators like Putin need to be considered.


It wasn't the US conducting "research".  It was Ukrainian scientists, who shared that information, likely with scientists across the world.  One of the Canadian labs had a scandal, as two of the Chinese national scientists turned out to be Chinese spies.  But the lab wasn't doing bioweapons research.  It was more about technology transfer.  So, I dismiss this point.  Anything that advances humanity should be viewed as such, no matter from where it emanates.  krimster had a post about why the US helped set up a lab in Ukraine. 

Quote
Poland just outmaneuvered the US.  The US tried to push Poland into giving Ukraine MIGS.  Poland said they would drop them off at the US base in Germany and they could give the planes to Ukraine.  The US decided it was a bad idea after that.  Why would the US be ok with Poland doing it but then not do it themselves? 
I'm not following the point here.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2022, 12:44:17 PM

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the nazis stuff.  Are they talking about that Azov group or are they saying Ukraine government?  Also, I've been reading a lot of things about how citizens in the Donbas region having been tortured.  Is this true or propaganda?  Hard to tell, but I do hope it's just propaganda.


The Russians are saying the country is overrun by nazis.  Which is untrue, and frankly, absurd.


There is a far right element in Ukraine, but it holds no power.  Even the Azov Batallion has only about 20% neo nazis. 


There are neo nazis among Russians (such as, is noted here, the Wagner group, whose very name comes from Nazi favoured composer Richard Wagner).  There is a far right party with members in the Bundestag in Germany.  Heck, there are far right members I'd consider nazis sitting in your Congress.  So this is just part of a smearing campaign and a justification to seize real estate. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2022, 12:47:39 PM

Wiki says Kyiv OR Kiev.


I prefer Kiev and anyway it's still called Chicken Kiev in the Supermarket here. :)


Kiev is a Russian spelling and Russian pronunciation.  I had a link with the two pronunciations downloaded here for our beloved Sandro. 


Anyway, if you want to know why this is important, read the link.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cbc-pronunciation-kyiv-ukraine-crisis-explainer-1.6371766#:~:text=The%20transliteration%20%22Kyiv%22%20was%20legally,name%20of%20its%20capital%20city.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

There are live videos from drones of Russians taking civilians as hostages? Haven't seen that. Can you explain to me how it makes sense for the Russian military to take 400 civilians as hostages?

No, there are drones from windows of the hospital showing Russian soldiers inside.

It doesn't make sense to kill an unarmed civilian with his hands held up above his head, but there's drone footage of Russians shooting such a civilian about a week ago.

It doesn't make sense for Russians to destroy apartment buildings, schools, bakeries with workers inside, or shoot people lining up to buy bread, but they've done all of those things in Ukraine.  They did that in Syria, a Putin planned operation bombed a Moscow apartment building to create the impetus for the second Chechen war, and they levelled Grozny, so this is par for the course for the Russian military.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/16/early-signs-war-crimes-and-human-rights-abuses-committed-russian-military-during

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/16/for-syrian-survivors-russias-tactics-in-ukraine-eerily-similar
Quote

As I said it is impossible to obtain the truth in the fog of war. Neither side have clean skins. The western narrative is clearly tangental. Multiple perspectives need to be considered.

No, you are wrong.  When you INVADE a sovereign nation, and meet resistance immediately, your perspective is irrelevant. 

Quote
The Ukrainian government has been firing on its citizens for the past eight years. Why do you think they will stop now? Particularly when captured "Ukronazis" will be summarily executed by Russian soldiers.

Ukraine has responded to banditry on its territory from the criminals of the so called "independent regions".  Ask people who escaped there how easy it is to live under that criminal rule.

Quote
Tell me, why would the Russian government want to drop a cluster bomb on Donetsk? You're a smart cookie. I'm sure you can either find a logical explanation or realize it was the Ukrainian military?

Why did they want to drop cluster bombs on Syria?  Human Rights Watch, which is a neutral observer, documented 47 different cluster bomb attacks on civilian targets by Russian forces in Syria in 2016.  The Russians, of course, denied it, but they were proven with remnants and fragmentations. 

I would ask you, what would Ukraine gain by bombing people who support them?  Civilians are going to know who dropped a bomb, and they know the direction from which missiles originate.
Quote
There are no 'good guys' in this conflict and the Ukrainian leadership has demonstrated a disregard for civilian life. That may not extend to all officials (obviously) but it is intellectually dishonest to ignore the behaviors of the Ukrainian military/SBU, etc.

No it isn't.  You have zero proof Ukraine is targeting its own civilians.  The proof I have is witness accounts and drone footage.  When you have evidence the Ukrainian army is killing civilians discriminately, then I will believe it.  They're not even shooting looters.  Rather, looters are tied to posts, pants around their ankles, and a potato in their mouths for 24 hours.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2022, 01:06:56 PM
I presume you live a sheltered existence. Every large government would fire on its own civilians. Nothing new in the USA - look up the Bonus Army. The government fired on veterans! Lots of historical examples in Europe. Even more recently look at the treatment of people in Canada and Australia - supposedly "democratic" countries. Not to mention Maidan snipers... or those in Donbass...


The Maidan snipers were backed by the Russian government, ordered to kill by a president who was deposed for that very reason.


Donbas was a war created by Russia's GRU.


The Canadian government has not recently fired on protestors.  We are not living in the 19th century or WWII.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 03:22:49 PM

Should have, would have, could have, might have .... none of it is useful. Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy directly addresses this line of thinking. More and more it looks like these sorts of analyses are the result of (and contribute to) wide-spread social anxiety. It is not helpful in addressing the here and now with a cold-eyed assessment.


Disagree.  If you don't know what led up to this then it's almost impossible to find a solution to end it.  Unless you're a war hawk that thinks sanctions and sending military arms is all that needs to be done.  It will just get more people killed and this war will continue indefinitely.  Just like it's happened in other countries.  Of course this is different!


What the sanctions have shown is don't trust the US dollar.  And when that stops being the world currency, we are in for a world of hurting.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 03:26:49 PM
Appreciate the reply Bo.  I do imagine you have much better sources than I do so maybe it's a lot easier for you to figure out what is disinformation and what isn't.    The nazis thing caught me off guard.   We are so politically divided here at home that people will make exaggerations to prove the other side wrong.  It's difficult to figure out where the truth is at times.  I never came across any nazis when I lived in Ukraine.  Never heard of them.  Then again, we overblow the amount of white supremacist's here, imo.  It's a term that has been over used to the point it holds no meaning.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 17, 2022, 03:38:52 PM
I hear the demise of the dollar fir decades.

I've yet to hear when it fails,what currency the bulk of the world would trust
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 17, 2022, 03:40:24 PM
I hear the demise of the dollar fir decades.

I've yet to hear when it fails,what currency the bulk of the world would trust


True, but technology like crypto has entered the room.  The US looks to be already working on it's own digital currency. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 17, 2022, 04:11:21 PM
Forget the nonsense about bio-labs. I live about 40 miles from a U.S. government bio-lab. Farmers are very grateful for the work they do researching livestock diseases and finding cures.  Other bio-labs are working every day testing possible cures for cancer and other diseases.

Slava Ukraini! (Glory to Ukraine!)

Heroyam Slava (Glory to Heroes!)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 17, 2022, 04:49:47 PM

1. Disagree.  If you don't know what led up to this then it's almost impossible to find a solution to end it.

2. Unless you're a war hawk that thinks sanctions and sending military arms is all that needs to be done. 

3. It will just get more people killed and this war will continue indefinitely. 

4. Just like it's happened in other countries.  Of course this is different!

5. What the sanctions have shown is don't trust the US dollar. 


6. And when that stops being the world currency, we are in for a world of hurting.

1. Ruminating over what might have been is a waste of time in determining what must be done NOW to end an unprovoked incursion into a sovereign nation destroying lives of millions.

2. Nope, neither.

3. A bit of that social anxiety displayed.

4. Whatever happened in other countries is irrelevant to this specific situation.

5. Sanctions clearly are having an effect on Russia and will have much more effect as time goes by. Notably, Russia suffers from sanctions instituted by other countries in other currencies.

6. More of that social anxiety.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 17, 2022, 05:25:44 PM
Wife read on her info sites about a woman in Ukraine who sent messages to military saying she wanted to join.
She told she had previously served in military and had certificates of her marksmanship, etc.

When asked about her age and what military she had served in, she replied.

I am 98 and served in WWII.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 17, 2022, 06:01:09 PM
I hear the demise of the dollar fir decades.

I've yet to hear when it fails,what currency the bulk of the world would trust

Why should the world trust ANY currency?  Every single currency that has been previously issued ended up being worthless.

You are better off to trust money.  (Currency is not money. It is a substitute for money.)

Maybe the world would go back to using gold and silver coins. (or digital accounts fractionating gold and silver coins.)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2022, 06:27:50 PM
A Russian reporter.

http://mobile.twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1504619176354320384
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 17, 2022, 09:04:03 PM
Ukraine’s ‘southern capital’ pleads for help to withstand Putin’s next onslaught
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://s3.amazonaws.com/arc-authors/washpost/ee5610cc-21b8-4d4f-bb97-f5ccafae0f8d.png&w=64&h=64)By  Josh Rogin (http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/josh-rogin/)
Today at 5:42 p.m. EDT
Quote
Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ukraine-russia/?itid=lk_inline_manual_2) is coming soon to the country’s third-largest city, Odessa, often called Ukraine’s “southern capital.” The people of the city are in desperate need of weapons and humanitarian aid to survive the coming onslaught. So far, though, the international community isn’t focused enough on this crucial battle — and the window of opportunity is closing.   
Odessa’s mayor, Gennadiy Trukhanov, told me during an interview that he doesn’t know exactly when Russian forces will attack, but ominous signs are everywhere. Russian warships are probing the Black Sea beaches (http://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/03/russian-navy-landing-ships-seen-approaching-ukrainian-coast-near-odessa/) and shelling parts of the coastline, indications an amphibious invasion force might soon be on the way. Ukrainians have tried to mine the beaches, but there aren’t enough mines to go around.   Military units are positioned to resist any landing, but Ukrainian forces don’t have enough antiship weapons, such as Harpoon missiles, to keep the Russian fleet at bay.“Our concern is that the city could be surrounded,” said Trukhanov, a former Soviet military officer now leading a city of almost 1 million people preparing to fight. “This is exactly the scenario we are expecting from the enemy.”
READ MORE-------
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/17/odessa-putin-next-target-needs-help/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on March 17, 2022, 09:36:21 PM

So much nonsense.


The emboldened statement in blue indicate clear bias. That bias undergirds everything else.

The use of "probably" and "if" are indicative of hypotheticals. Those hypotheticals are then drawn out as conclusory, but their underlying basis is NOT supported with facts. Joe Friday would be appalled.


Once again, the arrogance displayed in a post like this TRUMPets the message; "I know the truth and you do not!" It's ludicrous. The danger of these posts is there are small snippets of truth in them, so a casual reader might not bother to pick up on the fact that Russia was claiming these were "secret" weapons biolabs. If they were so secret, why was there public announcement in 2005 and then on the US Embassy website. There was nothing "secret" about them. Remember the Latin phrase Falsus in uno, falsus in ombibus -- false in part, false in whole.


It doesn't matter if you convince people I'm the worst person in the world, the truth is the truth is the truth. The American government, media and fact checking sites have lied to you but you're focused on one guy on the internet who may only influence the minds of a few. The government, media and fact checking sites are influencing the minds of billions. People are dying and our government is lying. Your anger is misplaced. For the time you spent writing a post, you could write a short canned letter and used the links I provided and write to media outlets and fact checking sites telling they are wrong, the American government did fund biolabs in Ukraine. When they fail to make corrections to their articles or fact checks, you will then understand they don't care about the truth. They don't care about YOU. They serve a master that wants a certain narrative projected to accomplish certain goals and the goal may not be peace.

The American government is cleaning up all evidence of funding the biolabs. Biden's State Department is testifying in front of Congress they are afraid of Russia getting their hands on the biolabs? Why? If the biolabs are dealing with low level flu, cold viruses or bacteria or viruses and bacterial that affect animals, Russia doesn't care. They once had and possible still have the world's largest nuclear, chemical, and biological stockpiles. They are pros at making the stuff. Maybe there's something new we created our government is afraid that they'll find. Maybe there will be evidence that a pathogen is to be released like the one in China but this time the Ukrainian people will get infected first. Should I put up a link again to the biolab in Odessa that deals with the plague funded by Soros and other international entities?

Congress controls the purse strings of war. It's why Biden's state department needs to talk to them. Maybe we'll send troops over there not to protect the Ukrainian people but to protect those Deep State project biolabs. Troops may have to die....again due to BS failed foreign policies. Search for old articles and you'll see Russia complaining about the biolabs built in Ukraine and Georgia. America has surrounded them with Biolabs. We could've built them in our country instead of pissing them off. And now we complain they're attacking Ukraine. Russia asked us not to cross certain boundaries but we crossed them anyway...on purpose.

Our government is so corrupt and the media puts out so much propaganda that most people don't know we are in the Supreme Court for election fraud, the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court for election fraud, Wisconsin Congress is seriously talking decertifying the election and recalling their electors and 7 other states are talking about it too. Most of our judges and politicians have been compromised. I'm not sure they're going to take appropriate action. If we don't fix the problems in our country, we won't be capable of fixing Ukraine's problem, especially with a criminal government. I'm not worried about Ukraine being taken over because America has been taken over. We have a chance to correct this. If we don't, you will be witnessing the beginning of the decline of America and our future generations will suffer because we failed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 17, 2022, 09:41:39 PM
Why should the world trust ANY currency?  Every single currency that has been previously issued ended up being worthless.

You are better off to trust money.  (Currency is not money. It is a substitute for money.)

Maybe the world would go back to using gold and silver coins. (or digital accounts fractionating gold and silver coins.)

The point was the world hasn't been on a gold or silver standards as a means of commerce for decades.
There will likely always be some substitute for that value, and even you brought up crypto based on it. Still a substitute  based on a trusted value

During that time  I've heard continually of the  demise of one.subsitute for another. And despite your comment on trust,
 It is exactly what dictates any substitutes value.

Why should we trust the dollar? You can't fully.
But in general
Maybe from.simply lack.of any viable more.trustworthy.substitute yet.after decades

Im.not saying a shift wont.happen

Im.saying the boy has been crying wolf for my lifetime, I suppose we are due the wolf  really being there.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on March 17, 2022, 09:55:23 PM
Billy b.
I've worked in biolabs.
You're off base.

Ask that livestock Farmer in georgia, what diesease was isolated and addressed in his herd of sheep.
Just because russia ran with a narrative that fit their objective, doesn't mean their take on it was reality.

Try to remember we dint invade georgia, Russia did.
We did not stir insurgency on our border states, of georgia,and then use that as a justification to recognize them as independent then take military action to invade georgia and secure them. Russia did.

To completely ignore that Russia repeats the big bite ,concession to small bite operation over and over and over, is luducris.
If you are  believing in deep-state BS,then russias.MO.is guided.but its still.thier MO.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 17, 2022, 11:28:45 PM

It doesn't matter if you convince people I'm the worst person in the world, the truth is the truth is the truth. The American government, media and fact checking sites have lied to you but you're focused on one guy on the internet who may only influence the minds of a few. The government, media and fact checking sites are influencing the minds of billions. People are dying and our government is lying. Your anger is misplaced. For the time you spent writing a post, you could write a short canned letter and used the links I provided and write to media outlets and fact checking sites telling they are wrong, the American government did fund biolabs in Ukraine. When they fail to make corrections to their articles or fact checks, you will then understand they don't care about the truth. They don't care about YOU. They serve a master that wants a certain narrative projected to accomplish certain goals and the goal may not be peace.

The American government is cleaning up all evidence of funding the biolabs. Biden's State Department is testifying in front of Congress they are afraid of Russia getting their hands on the biolabs? Why? If the biolabs are dealing with low level flu, cold viruses or bacteria or viruses and bacterial that affect animals, Russia doesn't care. They once had and possible still have the world's largest nuclear, chemical, and biological stockpiles. They are pros at making the stuff. Maybe there's something new we created our government is afraid that they'll find. Maybe there will be evidence that a pathogen is to be released like the one in China but this time the Ukrainian people will get infected first. Should I put up a link again to the biolab in Odessa that deals with the plague funded by Soros and other international entities?

Congress controls the purse strings of war. It's why Biden's state department needs to talk to them. Maybe we'll send troops over there not to protect the Ukrainian people but to protect those Deep State project biolabs. Troops may have to die....again due to BS failed foreign policies. Search for old articles and you'll see Russia complaining about the biolabs built in Ukraine and Georgia. America has surrounded them with Biolabs. We could've built them in our country instead of pissing them off. And now we complain they're attacking Ukraine. Russia asked us not to cross certain boundaries but we crossed them anyway...on purpose.

Our government is so corrupt and the media puts out so much propaganda that most people don't know we are in the Supreme Court for election fraud, the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court for election fraud, Wisconsin Congress is seriously talking decertifying the election and recalling their electors and 7 other states are talking about it too. Most of our judges and politicians have been compromised. I'm not sure they're going to take appropriate action. If we don't fix the problems in our country, we won't be capable of fixing Ukraine's problem, especially with a criminal government. I'm not worried about Ukraine being taken over because America has been taken over. We have a chance to correct this. If we don't, you will be witnessing the beginning of the decline of America and our future generations will suffer because we failed.

Not even going to make the effort to deconstruct that nonsense.

Billy, you clearly believe the garbage you are spouting. Like any zealot, you are prepared to sacrifice for your beliefs, no matter how ludicrous they may be.

So be it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on March 17, 2022, 11:45:13 PM
Not even going to make the effort to deconstruct that nonsense.

Billy, you clearly believe the garbage you are spouting. Like any zealot, you are prepared to sacrifice for your beliefs, no matter how ludicrous they may be.

So be it.
Amen. Garbage says as garbage does.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 18, 2022, 01:22:30 AM
A Russian reporter.

http://mobile.twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1504619176354320384 (http://mobile.twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1504619176354320384)
Very very interesting. I would say it even makes me wonder about my personal projects and my communication.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 18, 2022, 01:57:09 AM
Not even going to make the effort to deconstruct that nonsense.

Repeated many times before, Billy's post has already been thoroughly deconstructed.  All that remains is a bucket built of logical fallacies that hold no water.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2022, 02:14:56 AM
Very very interesting. I would say it even makes me wonder about my personal projects and my communication.

It seems older and ill educated individuals are the most likely to support Putin.

Here’s a piece on biolabs.

http://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/russia-ukraine-bioweapons-misinformation/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2022, 02:25:13 AM
Another interesting article, from a Russian military expert.

http://russiandefpolicy.com/2022/02/07/mass-fire-strike-on-ukraine/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2022, 02:30:21 AM
I have no clue if this is true or disinformation, but it’s an interesting, if rambling, read

http://m.facebook.com/vladimir.osechkin/posts/4811633942268327

Source where I encountered it.

http://mobile.twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500196510054637569
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2022, 02:39:36 AM
This is the experience of a family fleeing Mariupol.

http://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1504579756221558792.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 18, 2022, 05:12:33 AM
The point was the world hasn't been on a gold or silver standards as a means of commerce for decades.
There will likely always be some substitute for that value, and even you brought up crypto based on it. Still a substitute  based on a trusted value

During that time  I've heard continually of the  demise of one.subsitute for another. And despite your comment on trust,
 It is exactly what dictates any substitutes value.

Why should we trust the dollar? You can't fully.
But in general
Maybe from.simply lack.of any viable more.trustworthy.substitute yet.after decades

Im.not saying a shift wont.happen

Im.saying the boy has been crying wolf for my lifetime, I suppose we are due the wolf  really being there.

I did NOT bring up crypto based on gold.  I brought up digital accounts.  For example, you would deposit an ounce of gold in an account, and then use a debit card that would allow you to spend a fraction of that gold.

If trust is what substitutes for money is based on, then why are we using any substitutes? 

Gold is a viable substitute for the US dollar, because gold is money.  The US dollar USED to be backed by gold, and it is riding on its reputation. (Politicians don't like gold because it is easier to get money for their projects by inflating the money supply, and you can't print gold out of thin air.)

Money has 5 mandatory attributes.  (Anything that lacks even one characteristic will fail.)

Consistent
Convenient
Durable
Divisable
Has intrinsic value
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2022, 05:17:46 AM
A reporter’s view of the Russian advance so far

http://newlinesmag.com/first-person/putins-killing-machine-that-isnt-working/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 18, 2022, 05:37:36 AM
No, you are wrong.  When you INVADE a sovereign nation, and meet resistance immediately, your perspective is irrelevant.
When you threaten a nation with military action (Ukraine had such an official policy), seek to join a powerful military alliance, and express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons don't expect that there will be no consequences.

Why did they want to drop cluster bombs on Syria?
To achieve their political and military objectives. What political or military objectives would Russia gain by bombing Donetsk? The apartment bombings in 1999 supported political and military objectives. I fail to see how this in any way benefits the Russian government.

I would ask you, what would Ukraine gain by bombing people who support them?
People in Donetsk support Ukraine? WTF?

  You have zero proof Ukraine is targeting its own civilians.
I said disregard for civilians, not 'targeting'. But as you asked for proof:

http://youtu.be/xxySI3HV8YY

I suppose you'll say this is fake and propaganda too. The virtuous, benevolent Ukrainian military would never do such a thing.  :rolleyes:

Good luck with being a mercenary, cannon fodder: http://www.tiktok.com/@salceyy2/video/7075303241231224107

Even Mr Potato Head (Lukashenko) has stated the truth - either Kyiv signs a peace agreement or a surrender. I don't think you've figured that out yet because of your understandable hatred of the Russian government.

You keep sharing western commentary. It's biased as heck. The truth lies between what you're reading and what gets published in Russia.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 18, 2022, 07:05:15 AM
People in Donetsk support Ukraine? WTF?

Donetsk city and east, no personal experience.

Donetsk region, many do despite speaking Russian and of Russian heritage.  This is from personal experience.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 18, 2022, 07:38:29 AM
When you threaten a nation with military action (Ukraine had such an official policy), seek to join a powerful military alliance, and express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons don't expect that there will be no consequences.

When did Ukraine threaten another nation with military action?

What official policy are you referring to?

Any country is allowed to join military alliances, and no outside country has ANY say in the matter.  NONE.  Furthermore, it would be inappropriate for any outside country to oppose it.

When did Ukraine express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons?  (After the invasion, they did say the Budapest memorandum was a mistake, because the signatories did not keep their word.)  Ukraine actually expressed a desire to not have nuclear weapons, as evidenced by their voluntarily giving up the nuclear weapons they inherited after the Soviet Union fell apart. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 18, 2022, 07:41:43 AM
When did Ukraine threaten another nation with military action?

What official policy are you referring to?

Any country is allowed to join military alliances, and no outside country has ANY say in the matter.  NONE.  Furthermore, it would be inappropriate for any outside country to oppose it.

When did Ukraine express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons?  (After the invasion, they did say the Budapest memorandum was a mistake, because the signatories did not keep their word.)  Ukraine actually expressed a desire to not have nuclear weapons, as evidenced by their voluntarily giving up the nuclear weapons they inherited after the Soviet Union fell apart.

 :cluebat: Arguing with a brainwashed Putintroll like rwd, oh good luck! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 18, 2022, 08:00:56 AM
:cluebat: Arguing with a brainwashed Putintroll like rwd, oh good luck!


You've also noticed what he is  then .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 18, 2022, 08:03:04 AM
Hacker group "Anonymous " has declared war on Russia and has interrupted several Russian state TV broadcasts.


They are targeting Putin.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 18, 2022, 08:06:51 AM

You've also noticed what he is  then .

uhh yeah, with white, blue and red colors in his eyes, humming the russian anthem in front of his keyboard. Throwing kisses to his portrait of Vladimir Vladimirovitj Putin on the wall.

I sincerely hope no-one is that blind not to see what he is.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 18, 2022, 08:47:05 AM
I did NOT bring up crypto based on gold.  I brought up digital accounts.  For example, you would deposit an ounce of gold in an account, and then use a debit card that would allow you to spend a fraction of that gold.

If trust is what substitutes for money is based on, then why are we using any substitutes? 

Gold is a viable substitute for the US dollar, because gold is money.  The US dollar USED to be backed by gold, and it is riding on its reputation. (Politicians don't like gold because it is easier to get money for their projects by inflating the money supply, and you can't print gold out of thin air.)

Money has 5 mandatory attributes.  (Anything that lacks even one characteristic will fail.)

Consistent
Convenient
Durable
Divisable
Has intrinsic value

Start a new thread on money/currency/gold.
There your misconceptions can be addressed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2022, 09:17:22 AM
I did NOT bring up crypto based on gold.  I brought up digital accounts.  For example, you would deposit an ounce of gold in an account, and then use a debit card that would allow you to spend a fraction of that gold.

If trust is what substitutes for money is based on, then why are we using any substitutes? 

Gold is a viable substitute for the US dollar, because gold is money.  The US dollar USED to be backed by gold, and it is riding on its reputation. (Politicians don't like gold because it is easier to get money for their projects by inflating the money supply, and you can't print gold out of thin air.)

Money has 5 mandatory attributes.  (Anything that lacks even one characteristic will fail.)

Consistent
Convenient
Durable
Divisable
Has intrinsic value
I don't know what the answer is, but gold doesn't seem much different than anything else. 
I've enjoyed the benefits of the dollar to this point.  Nothing can last forever though; eventually other competing currencies will get more market share.   From what I've read that will devalue the dollar.   I can see how inflation is already doing that, so getting the inflation under control will be important, especially for the older folks and savers.  There is always a chance that in the grander scheme of things, older people and savers will be tossed under the bus, to make way for the newer generations who will be earning the inflated dollars at a higher clip.

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2022, 09:27:01 AM
Our government is so corrupt and the media puts out so much propaganda that most people don't know we are in the Supreme Court for election fraud, the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court for election fraud, Wisconsin Congress is seriously talking decertifying the election and recalling their electors and 7 other states are talking about it too. Most of our judges and politicians have been compromised. I'm not sure they're going to take appropriate action. If we don't fix the problems in our country, we won't be capable of fixing Ukraine's problem, especially with a criminal government. I'm not worried about Ukraine being taken over because America has been taken over. We have a chance to correct this. If we don't, you will be witnessing the beginning of the decline of America and our future generations will suffer because we failed.
There are a sizable percentage of people that believe the US govt is fraudulent.  I believe Biden won fair and square.    All that said, I do see a decline in America.  I think it is the people themselves are in decline.  I guess it is just the a cycle of how societies evolve.  Other more hungry nations will outcompete us.   In addition to this, I don't believe the US is really interested in fixing Ukraine's problem.   If it were happening on our doorstep we would want to stop the turmoil and get back to business.   I imagine there are US strategists charting out a cost benefit analysis regarding Ukraine and they are probably considering competing factors that none of us have brought up or throught about here.  It would be done in a calculating manner emotion free. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 18, 2022, 11:31:56 AM
FT,

IMO the cost-benefit analysis is only defined by the risks of supplying offensive vs defensive weapons.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on March 18, 2022, 03:04:53 PM
uhh yeah, with white, blue and red colors in his eyes, humming the russian anthem in front of his keyboard. Throwing kisses to his portrait of Vladimir Vladimirovitj Putin on the wall.

I sincerely hope no-one is that blind not to see what he is.
Huh?  When I have stated I support Russia's actions?

What I have said -

1. There are always multiple perspectives to any conflict. Resolving conflict requires taking on all perspectives, even if you disagree with them. I have previously received professional training in this area, here's a taste: http://www.dianemushohamilton.com/about-diane/

2. Ukrainian government and military do not value civilian lives. Plenty of evidence this is the case. They are not virtuous. They are in no way better than the Russian army with respect to civilians - and arguably worse.

3. Western narrative is BS. What happened to the "Ghost of Kyiv"? Was he shot down? There is propaganda on both sides but western media only present one side and have banned/blocked the other (in the EU and other places).

4. Russia will get what it wants or there will be nuclear/world war. This is subjective and not a presentation of my personal preference - but what is transpiring. Very disturbing flight patterns of certain aircraft in Russia in the past 24 hours indicating Russia may be preparing for a strike. I am seriously concerned about this possibility. Russia have nuclear systems on highest alert and have operationally deployed S-500 systems including in Moscow.

5. De-escalation should be prioritized. Sanctions hurt common people, not the elites. It has increased the cost of living (survival) for people all over the world. Food (and fertilizer) production and distribution in Ukraine and Russia is severely impacted. The reality is a hit to food production/distribution/prices will result in starvation/death/political turmoil in countries completely unrelated to the conflict. This is a serious global problem.

6. This is not 'good guys vs. bad guys'. Maybe it's my libertarian streak but when governments are involved there are, with very limited exceptions, absolutely no good guys. Power structures attract corrupted personalities who do not act virtuously. I mean, seriously, two weeks into the conflict Russia decides to drop a cluster bomb in downtown Donetsk? Seriously? I've never denied Russian troops have killed civilians because it is bound to happen in a conflict of this size and nature.

I get labeled a Putin stooge because I don't follow the herd? Think for yourself. At least Boe bothers to color her responses with different viewpoints rather than petty name calling.

The world is teetering on the brink of nuclear disaster. Not sure people have cottoned on to this yet.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2022, 03:37:43 PM
Here is a western Youtuber with a million subscribers.  He is telling a different story than what you read here.   Has a snippet from a western guy who it seems went to Ukraine to fight for Ukraine. 
There is definitely a strain of America that isn't buying into the current controlled narrative we get from our officials.   

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH5fnlurq-w&t=304s   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH5fnlurq-w&t=304s)

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2022, 03:43:01 PM
The first casualty of war is ALWAYS the truth…
and his obituary is spoken of every day on Russian TV (“Special Military Operation”)
as if he were a lately killed Russian General…

truth didn’t stop the 2nd Chechen war, when Putin ordered the FSB to bomb Russian apartments
most of the people who were killed in Grozny after that were ethnic Russians
just like most of the people killed in Mariupol now were Russian speakers…

we had to kill the Russians to save the Russians?  huh?

So, it’s not ABOUT PEOPLE THEN, it’s ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE…
Hmmmmm... Now Think.....
What could it be?


my prediction, the Russians will feel more "invoragted" when the weather improves but the muddy ground will still inhibit movement
Russians will try to block Odessa from the rest of Ukraine, and  maybe even cutting off water supply route with naval blockade of Odessa....
once they cut-off Odessa they will head north to link up with the forces surrounding Kiev
the goal is to surround, isolate and starve out kiev...
and when the central government collapses, so will the oblasts which are dependent on the central government for most of their money
and one-by-one, all the dominos begin to fall
till nothing and noone is left standing in Ukraine

the thing about people hiding in bunkers is that:

"neither do they sow and neither do they reap"

for as long as Putin can tolerate the pain
all he has to do is to close off Odesa and surround Kiev, and then just keep up the current intensity, but focused all there in Kiev
and within a few monthd they will give up because of rampant famine
it took the Prussians 4 months to starve out Paris:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(1870%E2%80%931871)







Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2022, 03:48:16 PM
According to CNN, the west is back to the dreaded 'arm twisting'.   of China with threats.   Biden is probably not stupid enough to go into a meeting threatening China, but if he did, I'd suspect China would laugh in his face figuratively.   

Threats of US Sanctions again, probably works with a lot of countries...but some will thumb their nose to threats.  Let's see how this all sets with China.   They have their own self-interests to consider which should be paramount to US interests.   

Biden uses call with Xi to lay out consequences for China if it supports Russia attack on Ukraine

Ahead of time, American officials declined to say what specific threats Biden might make to convince Xi to withhold support for Russia. There have been ongoing discussions within the administration about potential steps, including sanctions.


  http://www.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/joe-biden-xi-jinping-call/index.html    (http://www.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/joe-biden-xi-jinping-call/index.html)

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2022, 04:53:24 PM
USA has flown reaper drones on the boder of Donbas
each reaper is capable of carrying 4 hellfire missiles, which is more lethal than a javelin

a fleet of these crossing the Polish border at night at tree top level
land at dawn at refueling centers in Ukraine and then take off with mixed teams of Ukrainian and remote American operators and hit russian supply lines and artillery
return and repeat again the next night...

somewhere between 2 weeks and 2 months from now, if Russia doesn't at least isolate Odesa and Kiev from the rest of Ukraine
then it has no choice other than to declare general military mobilization!!!
this will mean millions will be drafted!

maybe could start fresh Russian deployments in June
everything really depends on the weather now

The more that time goes on…
then the more weapons that can be provided to Ukraine…
not just boosting Javelin and Stinger numbers, but totally new kinds of weapons with low training requirements

like 50 cal BMG
Barrett 50 cal Sniper

Mk 19 40 mm grenade launchers
Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle

all of these weapons can be taught to someone in 1 week
and easy to smuggle thousands of them into Ukrainian training centers by truck and dispersed into combat zones

the west must also contend with the idea of a humanitarian airlift to stop the spread of famine in Ukraine
when the food supply/transport system starts to break down a few weeks from now






Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Lily on March 18, 2022, 04:53:47 PM
Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the newsanchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.


The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

Now she is interviewed by CNN.

http://youtu.be/wVbPi29TiTE
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 18, 2022, 07:41:49 PM
Start a new thread on money/currency/gold.
There your misconceptions can be addressed.
                                                     (http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/icon_thumleft.gif)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 18, 2022, 07:47:19 PM
Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the news anchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.

The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

I saw all of this.
Can't believe they only gave her a small fine.
Why wasn't she prosecuted and sent to prison for 15 years under the new law ?
Does she have a secret video of Mad Vlad peeing on a bed ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2022, 01:15:45 AM
USA has flown reaper drones on the boder of Donbas
each reaper is capable of carrying 4 hellfire missiles, which is more lethal than a javelin

a fleet of these crossing the Polish border at night at tree top level
land at dawn at refueling centers in Ukraine and then take off with mixed teams of Ukrainian and remote American operators and hit russian supply lines and artillery
return and repeat again the next night...

somewhere between 2 weeks and 2 months from now, if Russia doesn't at least isolate Odesa and Kiev from the rest of Ukraine
then it has no choice other than to declare general military mobilization!!!
this will mean millions will be drafted!

maybe could start fresh Russian deployments in June
everything really depends on the weather now

The more that time goes on…
then the more weapons that can be provided to Ukraine…
not just boosting Javelin and Stinger numbers, but totally new kinds of weapons with low training requirements

like 50 cal BMG
Barrett 50 cal Sniper

Mk 19 40 mm grenade launchers
Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle

all of these weapons can be taught to someone in 1 week
and easy to smuggle thousands of them into Ukrainian training centers by truck and dispersed into combat zones

the west must also contend with the idea of a humanitarian airlift to stop the spread of famine in Ukraine
when the food supply/transport system starts to break down a few weeks from now
general mobilization, that's will be huge if we face such situation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 19, 2022, 01:19:47 AM
Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the newsanchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.


The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

Now she is interviewed by CNN.




Yes we saw her protest here in the UK.


A very brave lady to speak the truth in Putin land.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 19, 2022, 09:23:15 AM
Here is a western Youtuber with a million subscribers.  He is telling a different story than what you read here.   Has a snippet from a western guy who it seems went to Ukraine to fight for Ukraine. 
There is definitely a strain of America that isn't buying into the current controlled narrative we get from our officials. 

Fathertime!


Supposedly, that guy was rejected by Ukraine and not allowed to fight.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10626697/Ukraines-foreign-fighters-ridicule-American-Boogaloo-Boy-RAN-AWAY-fighting.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2022, 10:22:05 AM
Huh?  When I have stated I support Russia's actions?

What I have said -

1. There are always multiple perspectives to any conflict. Resolving conflict requires taking on all perspectives, even if you disagree with them. I have previously received professional training in this area, here's a taste: http://www.dianemushohamilton.com/about-diane/ (http://www.dianemushohamilton.com/about-diane/)

2. Ukrainian government and military do not value civilian lives. Plenty of evidence this is the case. They are not virtuous. They are in no way better than the Russian army with respect to civilians - and arguably worse.

3. Western narrative is BS. What happened to the "Ghost of Kyiv"? Was he shot down? There is propaganda on both sides but western media only present one side and have banned/blocked the other (in the EU and other places).

4. Russia will get what it wants or there will be nuclear/world war. This is subjective and not a presentation of my personal preference - but what is transpiring. Very disturbing flight patterns of certain aircraft in Russia in the past 24 hours indicating Russia may be preparing for a strike. I am seriously concerned about this possibility. Russia have nuclear systems on highest alert and have operationally deployed S-500 systems including in Moscow.

5. De-escalation should be prioritized. Sanctions hurt common people, not the elites. It has increased the cost of living (survival) for people all over the world. Food (and fertilizer) production and distribution in Ukraine and Russia is severely impacted. The reality is a hit to food production/distribution/prices will result in starvation/death/political turmoil in countries completely unrelated to the conflict. This is a serious global problem.

6. This is not 'good guys vs. bad guys'. Maybe it's my libertarian streak but when governments are involved there are, with very limited exceptions, absolutely no good guys. Power structures attract corrupted personalities who do not act virtuously. I mean, seriously, two weeks into the conflict Russia decides to drop a cluster bomb in downtown Donetsk? Seriously? I've never denied Russian troops have killed civilians because it is bound to happen in a conflict of this size and nature.

I get labeled a Putin stooge because I don't follow the herd? Think for yourself. At least Boe bothers to color her responses with different viewpoints rather than petty name calling.

The world is teetering on the brink of nuclear disaster. Not sure people have cottoned on to this yet.
Ghost of Kiev and Snake Island not surrendering are myths from the Ukrainian side. Correct
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2022, 11:03:55 AM
The first casualty of war is ALWAYS the truth…
Suppression of information in the west I can see.   In Russia similar story.



Looks like Putin has launched his hypersonic weapons into Ukraine now.   The talking heads are now stating he may launch very small nuclear (Sub 1 Kiloton) weapons to wipe out Ukrainian forces completely in addition to sending the message that he will do whatever he needs to do.  Personally, I think he is up to taking part in this sort of launch, and it would be catastrophic to whoever remains in the area. 

     The general population in the USA doesn't know or care too much about Ukraine, so I don't think our nation would go very deep.  Our priority lies with punishing Russia financially, and of course fostering what we can to ensure Russia incurs as many military losses as possible.   

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2022, 11:41:26 AM
These are some of the first remarks AFTER meeting with Biden yesterday. 
China blames NATO.  I tend to believe it is more about money and business. 
Either way, China words are standing more with Russia than the west obviously.
I'll be curious to see what the next actions are. We shall see if China resupplies Russia, the way the west has been resupplying Ukraine.   

China's Vice Foreign Minister blames NATO for war in Ukraine

....China's vice foreign minister on Saturday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and criticized the West's sanctions against Russia, AP reports.....

....The big picture: Le's remarks come one day after President Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke about the war, with Biden describing "the implications and consequences if China provides material support to Russia," according to a White House readout of the call.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-vice-foreign-minister-blames-144527348.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-vice-foreign-minister-blames-144527348.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2022, 12:03:29 PM
If Russia mobilizes, then the west will have to mobilize:

USA could move 100 reaper drones to North Eastern Romania, transfer them to Ukraine, and attack Russian positions in southern Ukraine and return to base without refueling!!

don’t worry, the USA has about 330 Reaper Drones, these are 10X better than the Turkish ones!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 02:11:16 PM
Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the newsanchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.


The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

Now she is interviewed by CNN.




There is some speculation, based on the fine she received (administrative, despite the fact she could have been fined criminally), that this was "planted" by authorities.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 19, 2022, 02:36:07 PM

There is some speculation, based on the fine she received (administrative, despite the fact she could have been fined criminally), that this was "planted" by authorities.

Please elaborate.  I don't understand the background of your words at all.

My google search turned up nothing along the lines you suggested.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 02:43:27 PM
She received the absolute lowest level of fine possible, 30,000 rubles.  She could have been fined will over 1 million rubles had she faced a criminal charge, and she could have faced prison time. 

Throughout the history of the USSR, many so called "dissidents" were actually working with the Soviet state.  I trust nothing coming out of Russia, because they use a lot of disinformation.  I also don't trust reports of war "successes" coming from Ukraine.

I am not suggesting Marina Ovsyannikova was participating in a disinformation piece of propaganda, just that we can't blindly accept that what she did is as it seems. 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 19, 2022, 02:46:06 PM
She received the absolute lowest level of fine possible, 30,000 rubles.  She could have been fined will over 1 million rubles had she faced a criminal charge, and she could have faced prison time. 


Throughout the history of the USSR, many so called "dissidents" were actually working with the Soviet state.  I trust nothing coming out of Russia, because they use a lot of disinformation.  I also don't trust reports of war "successes" coming from Ukraine.

OK, but how could allowing her protest on TV benefit Putin's government?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 02:48:51 PM
It proves to the West that dissent is still "allowed" in Russia, that Russia is not an autocratic state, despite the fact that the vast majority of mass media is state controlled.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 19, 2022, 03:22:22 PM
It proves to the West that dissent is still "allowed" in Russia, that Russia is not an autocratic state . . .

OK, but I didn't know that Putin or his government cares what the West thinks about such.

They don't care about what West (and much of the world) thinks about their terrorist activities in Ukraine . . . so why would they care about dissent, etc.?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 03:48:46 PM
I think they do care what the West thinks. If they didn’t, there would be no troll factories.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2022, 04:00:42 PM
I think they do care what the West thinks. If they didn’t, there would be no troll factories.
They probably want to make sure their view is heard....in addition to making sure there is some dissent in the US and the rest of the west, in terms of policy towards Russia.

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 04:01:46 PM
No, they have always had a policy of influencing, and changing Western opinion.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 04:03:10 PM
Here’s a video I found today that explains some of this.

http://youtu.be/LR-u3Lbuc0Y
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 19, 2022, 04:06:54 PM
I think they do care what the West thinks. If they didn’t, there would be no troll factories.

Good point.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2022, 04:21:28 PM
They probably want to make sure their view is heard....in addition to making sure there is some dissent in the US and the rest of the west, in terms of policy towards Russia.

Fathertime!   

No, they have always had a policy of influencing, and changing Western opinion.

Sounds about the same to me.

Fathertime!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2022, 04:24:46 PM
The difference is, in the US, dissenting opinions are tolerated. In Russia, not so much.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 19, 2022, 04:44:31 PM
Here’s a video I found today that explains some of this.

http://youtu.be/LR-u3Lbuc0Y

Excellent find Boe.

My synopsis:  Was the action of Russian TV woman Marina Ovsiannikova merely a Putin sanctioned stunt to turn the world's attention on her . . . and away from the atrocities being committed by Russian terrorist attacks on Ukraine ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on March 19, 2022, 05:45:34 PM
Here's a personal update on the struggle for Ukraine.

T flew to Poland two weeks ago.  She took medical supplies from Sunflower of Peace, a local non profit.  A shout out to Delta - we purchased a basic fare but they allowed 3 oversized and over-weight checked-in luggage filled with combat gauge, compression bandages, combat tournequets and medical packs.  All without charge after just showing them a letter from Sunflower of Peace.

She has been travelling back and forth from the border and Warsaw, meeting other volunteers with supplies and getting other equipment requested by the militia, such as flak vests and thermal scopes.

She promised me she would stay in Poland and not enter Ukraine, which lasted a week.  I somewhat expected it - she is in Ukraine near the border to help with refugees and supplies.

T is from Mariupol.  Last year she bought a house there for her sister and two nephews.  They were the ones who let us know about the invasion, when our oldest nephew called because he heard explosions.  We lost contact with them on March 6.  They were without electricity, heat and running water.  A part of an artillery shell punched a hole above one of our nephews bedroom.  They have been sheltering in their unfinished basement, which is more of a winter cold storage room.  They had a small stock of food and drinking water - enough for a few days.  They tried to leave that day but turned around when they saw shelling up ahead on the road.

Last Saturday a friend contacted us.  They went by the house and saw my SIL's car.  They met my SIL and she and the nephews were ok.

On Tuesday they were able to evacuate from Mrpl.  They were a part of a civilian convoy that went to Zaporizhzhia.  Not a day too soon.  The convoy that left Wednesday was hit by an artillery strike, with several dead and many injurded.  T said 7 died.  On the following day the drama theater was bombed.  T's house is located two blocks away.

Today SIL and nephews are in central Ukraine.  They should meet up with T tomorrow evening.  T has arranged a place for them - one of the volunteers she works with has a summer house in a town near the Polish border.  Our oldest nephew is 19 and cannot leave Ukraine.  We are going to arrange a job for him either at a nearby factory or have him volunteer with transferring supplies.  Or maybe have him volunteer at a community kitchen to feed passing refugees.

I've read a few posts here.  Seems like some people are debating and some are repeating crap theories. 

If any want to do something, like donate or provide some other support, check your local charities.  Don't just donate blindly - I've come across some suspect organizations.  We picked the one we work with because we went to the charity founder's home and packed supplies into large duffle bags.  They are what they said they were.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2022, 06:05:59 PM
whatever grassroots support that's being created for Ukraine, this is like trying to fill a desert with a drop of water...
a month from now there will be a major, major crisis in Ukraine
with 1/4 of all children in Ukraine going to bed hungry every night
there is no way to stem the tide of a tsunami this high
just get out of the way as best you can

if I were you, I'd take your friend to Mexico with her Ukrainian passport
and then go through the US checkpoint at El Paso, Texas and have accomodations reserved there ahead of time
she gets a 1 year visa automatically there now

that's a long ass flite from Warsaw to Mexico City
and both these aero puertos kinda suck...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on March 19, 2022, 06:10:42 PM
Hi Krim

I always thought you were a bit odd.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2022, 06:13:01 PM
"I always thought you were a bit odd."

why do you think I'm odd?
just because I'm not divisible by 2?
you don't seem to be "too even" yourself!!
LOL!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 19, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
The difference is, in the US, dissenting opinions are tolerated. 
Less now than ever.
I think everybody needs to watch this video----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7DbO51Z3Co

Comments---
Quote
It's weird to see Joe actually string a sentence together.
The problem is Joe Biden doesn't remember 1997.
Getting my news from a comedian, while the news shows have become a joke.
To me, the thing is... NATO is not all it's cracked up to be any more. There is no unified armed forces. Who would be in charge?

Quote
“In a second Trump term, I think he may well have withdrawn from NATO,” Bolton said. “And I think [Russian President Vladimir] Putin was waiting for that.”White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Friday responded to Bolton’s comments, saying they highlighted “another reason the American people are grateful — the majority of the American people — that President Biden has not taken a page out of his predecessor’s playbook as it relates to global engagement and global leadership, because certainly we could be in a different place.”“I mean, there’s no question that the strength and unity of NATO has been a powerful force in this moment,” Psaki added.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/04/bolton-says-trump-might-have-pulled-us-out-nato-if-he-had-been-reelected/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 20, 2022, 12:54:22 AM

Comments---To me, the thing is... NATO is not all it's cracked up to be any more. There is no unified armed forces. Who would be in charge?


shape.nato.int
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 20, 2022, 03:08:56 AM
The real Nazis.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/russian-mercenaries-in-ukraine-linked-to-far-right-extremists
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 20, 2022, 04:00:07 AM
The real Nazis.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/russian-mercenaries-in-ukraine-linked-to-far-right-extremists (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/russian-mercenaries-in-ukraine-linked-to-far-right-extremists)
Russia has repeatedly tried to embarrass the world with the "Ukrainian nazis".
They are everywhere. In Europe we have some groups of them, you have some in the USA or also I suppose in Canada.
Does it make the whole country nazi? No
Russia often refers to Bandera who operated in the North West of Ukraine and collaborated with the Germans but most annoying was the following insurrection against the USSR, NKVD fought them for a decade, and the Ukrainian insurrection was capable to deploy sometime a regiment at a specific point.
The SS Galicie division is all time the Pantheon of the treachery in the eyes of the Russian Federation.
We had also a French SS division "Charlemagne", do you remember someone telling us that Frenchies are all nazis? No, some people are, however, but not all the nation. In France, we have far-right movements but the law punishes severely the ones who turn themselves nazis. I have seen this repeatedly last 30 years, the French justice is merciless with them.

I have not been a witness in 13 years in Ukraine during my 30 trips (31? 32? 33?) of something related (seen or heard) about Nazis in Ukraine.
I know a couple of Russian YouTubers who have gone to Ukraine and they express the same observation.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 20, 2022, 08:19:22 AM
Here's a personal update on the struggle for Ukraine.

T flew to Poland two weeks ago.  She took medical supplies from Sunflower of Peace, a local non profit.  A shout out to Delta - we purchased a basic fare but they allowed 3 oversized and over-weight checked-in luggage filled with combat gauge, compression bandages, combat tournequets and medical packs.  All without charge after just showing them a letter from Sunflower of Peace.

She has been travelling back and forth from the border and Warsaw, meeting other volunteers with supplies and getting other equipment requested by the militia, such as flak vests and thermal scopes.

She promised me she would stay in Poland and not enter Ukraine, which lasted a week.  I somewhat expected it - she is in Ukraine near the border to help with refugees and supplies.

T is from Mariupol.  Last year she bought a house there for her sister and two nephews.  They were the ones who let us know about the invasion, when our oldest nephew called because he heard explosions.  We lost contact with them on March 6.  They were without electricity, heat and running water.  A part of an artillery shell punched a hole above one of our nephews bedroom.  They have been sheltering in their unfinished basement, which is more of a winter cold storage room.  They had a small stock of food and drinking water - enough for a few days.  They tried to leave that day but turned around when they saw shelling up ahead on the road.

Last Saturday a friend contacted us.  They went by the house and saw my SIL's car.  They met my SIL and she and the nephews were ok.

On Tuesday they were able to evacuate from Mrpl.  They were a part of a civilian convoy that went to Zaporizhzhia.  Not a day too soon.  The convoy that left Wednesday was hit by an artillery strike, with several dead and many injurded.  T said 7 died.  On the following day the drama theater was bombed.  T's house is located two blocks away.

Today SIL and nephews are in central Ukraine.  They should meet up with T tomorrow evening.  T has arranged a place for them - one of the volunteers she works with has a summer house in a town near the Polish border.  Our oldest nephew is 19 and cannot leave Ukraine.  We are going to arrange a job for him either at a nearby factory or have him volunteer with transferring supplies.  Or maybe have him volunteer at a community kitchen to feed passing refugees.

I've read a few posts here.  Seems like some people are debating and some are repeating crap theories. 

If any want to do something, like donate or provide some other support, check your local charities.  Don't just donate blindly - I've come across some suspect organizations.  We picked the one we work with because we went to the charity founder's home and packed supplies into large duffle bags.  They are what they said they were.

Thanks for great post Steve !!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2022, 09:13:44 AM
 Can't blame Zelensky for trying although I don't think Russia's invasion would cause WWIII if no agreement is reached.   What would lead to a wider conflict is direct intervention from Western powers.... which doesn't seem to be in the cards as of yet.    It's understandable that Zelensky wants to try to negotiate from a position of strength, but the reality is Ukraine isn't in that position. 

 I'm not sure if Russian demands have changed since last time, but if not, a lot of lives can still be saved if Ukraine accepts their fate against a much larger, relentless, and merciless opponent.  Russian has enough tacit backing from larger nations such as China and India, and even if they didn't it still seems clear they are going forward regardless of the cost to them.   I'm not sure of what the real number of deaths are, but with Russia's attitude it will wind up in the millions before this ends.   

Zelensky: "I'm ready for negotiations" with Putin, but if they fail, it could mean "a third World War"

....Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Sunday he is ready to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin, but warned that if any negotiation attempts fail, it could mean the fight between the two countries would lead to "a third World War."

“I’m ready for negotiations with him. I was ready for the last two years. And I think that without negoti
ations, we cannot end this war,” Zelensky told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria in an exclusive interview Sunday morning....


http://tinyurl.com/2p8kwcjm

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 20, 2022, 09:24:27 AM


 I'm not sure if Russian demands have changed since last time, but if not, a lot of lives can still be saved if Ukraine accepts their fate against a much larger, relentless, and merciless opponent.

You seem to keep forgetting what this would mean for other smaller countries around the world.

There is even the higher level thinking that this is the beginning phase of war between democracies and autocracies around the globe.

Ukrainians says they are fighting for the rest of the world.
I believe it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 20, 2022, 09:32:24 AM
Yes Boris Johnson publicly said that if Putin is seen to be successful in his invasion of Ukraine it will be a disaster for the rest of the World.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 20, 2022, 09:37:01 AM
"Russia has repeatedly tried to embarrass the world with the "Ukrainian nazis". "

Russians have the great patriotic war in their collective sub-conscious


and the government is fully aware of how to use this collective memory to manipulate the Russian public’s actions and feelings.  You see it every freakin day on Russian TV!
way too much "nostalgie" borja moi!  they try to milk every little bit of it!

So Putin called Ukrainians “faschista!”

when a mosquito bites my wife’s arm, this is what she yells at it, while squashing it!
“FASCHISTA!”

it doesn’t mean, this little bug is wearing a Hitler-Jugund Swastika red and black and white arm band!
Nope!
Fashista! Is just a Russian pejorative term, like the “N” word, only MUCH worse…
it’s probably the nastiest word you can legally say on Russian TV
because MAT, is strictly VERBOTEN on Russki TV!!

you can’t say "d’vai pizda" on TV for example!
but at Rasputin's Moscva I heard this being said ALL THE TIME (LOL!!!)
starry starry den

L'exile du Russki


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 20, 2022, 10:02:20 AM
NOTE: Just because I post some articles in this thread should not
imply that I agree with them or believe that they should be considered
to be unbiased or reliable. Everyone should always question everything
and get information from several different sources before making up their
minds.

This is a collection of some of the more sensational stories circulating 
around in cyberspace.


Putin loses ANOTHER top commander
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10632485/Putin-loses-commander-Black-Sea-Fleet-captain-51-shot-dead-near-Mariupol.html


Russia ridicules idea that cosmonauts wore yellow in support of Ukraine
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-ridicules-idea-cosmonauts-wore-151014565.html


Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine because he is terrified of a pro-democracy revolution in Moscow says Boris Johnson
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/putin-panicking-over-revolution-moscow-26508643


Col.-Gen. Sergei Beseda, head of the intelligence agency’s Fifth Service under house
arrest

http://www.wsj.com/articles/reported-detention-of-russian-spy-boss-shows-tension-over-stalled-ukraine-invasion-u-s-officials-say-11647687601


Colonel-General Sergei Beseda, head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch,
the Fifth Service, was arrested along with his deputy, Anatoly Bolyukh. If they
have been detained, Western security officials said it means President Vladimir
Putin is “seriously concerned” about faulty intelligence on Ukraine.
http://groundreport.in/who-is-spy-chief-col-gen-sergei-beseda-arrested-in-ukraine/


Thousands of resident illegally taken across border, says Mariupol council, as reports emerge its art school has been bombed while 400 were sheltering inside
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-crisis-claims-mariupol-women-and-children-forcibly-sent-to-russia

Ukraine claims more Wagner mercenaries trying to assassinate Zelensky
http://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-701782


Pentagon’s Work With Ukraine’s Biological Facilities Becomes Flashpoint in Russia’s Information War
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pentagons-work-with-ukraines-biological-facilities-becomes-flashpoint-in-russias-information-war-11647768601


India’s Dependence on Russian Weapons Tethers Modi to Putin
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/india-s-dependence-on-russian-weapons-tethers-modi-to-putin/ar-AAVhIHA


Inside the secret transfer of military equipment to Ukrainian soldiers
http://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-03-18/secret-transfer-military-equipment-ukrainian-soldiers-5390190.html


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2022, 10:08:54 AM

I have not been a witness in 13 years in Ukraine during my 30 trips (31? 32? 33?) of something related (seen or heard) about Nazis in Ukraine.
I know a couple of Russian YouTubers who have gone to Ukraine and they express the same observation.

I'm a minority and I haven't experienced any hostility in my dozen trips to Ukraine. But that doesn't mean Russia is lying about Nazis in Ukraine that our current government is supporting.

Here is a letter 40 Democrats signed asking the Trump administration to label the Ukrainian Azov Battalion a terrorist organization since they have white supremacists neo nazis in its ranks and are recruiting Americans. Now our government wants to give the Azov Battalion weapons to kill Russians and our media tells us neo nazis in Ukraine doesn't exist. All people in in the world should be outraged if we are supporting people who worship Hitler.

http://web.archive.org/web/20200130033931/http://maxrose.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2019.10.16_rose_fto_letter_to_state.pdf (http://web.archive.org/web/20200130033931/http://maxrose.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2019.10.16_rose_fto_letter_to_state.pdf)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2022, 10:45:13 AM
You seem to keep forgetting what this would mean for other smaller countries around the world.

There is even the higher level thinking that this is the beginning phase of war between democracies and autocracies around the globe.

Ukrainians says they are fighting for the rest of the world.
I believe it.
It is something to consider. 
I don't think this invasion will lead to other similar invasions.  The consequences are pretty severe and it seems Ukraine was a pretty unique situation.   

Smaller like minded countries can also band together and form their own little versions of NATO....leaving out the biggest powers.   

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 20, 2022, 11:21:08 AM

Inside the secret transfer of military equipment to Ukrainian soldiers
http://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-03-18/secret-transfer-military-equipment-ukrainian-soldiers-5390190.html

This is great !

But WTF did Stars and Stripes publish it ????????
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 20, 2022, 02:59:25 PM
Russia has repeatedly tried to embarrass the world with the "Ukrainian nazis".
They are everywhere. In Europe we have some groups of them, you have some in the USA or also I suppose in Canada.
Does it make the whole country nazi? No
Russia often refers to Bandera who operated in the North West of Ukraine and collaborated with the Germans but most annoying was the following insurrection against the USSR, NKVD fought them for a decade, and the Ukrainian insurrection was capable to deploy sometime a regiment at a specific point.
The SS Galicie division is all time the Pantheon of the treachery in the eyes of the Russian Federation.
We had also a French SS division "Charlemagne", do you remember someone telling us that Frenchies are all nazis? No, some people are, however, but not all the nation. In France, we have far-right movements but the law punishes severely the ones who turn themselves nazis. I have seen this repeatedly last 30 years, the French justice is merciless with them.

I have not been a witness in 13 years in Ukraine during my 30 trips (31? 32? 33?) of something related (seen or heard) about Nazis in Ukraine.
I know a couple of Russian YouTubers who have gone to Ukraine and they express the same observation.

I understand why Ukrainians wanted to honour Bandera, but I think it was wrong to do so.  He belongs to a past that was hyper nationalistic.  Because this was suppressed in Ukraine, it would bound to come out in unhealthy ways on the collapse of the USSR. 

The idea that a country with a Jewish president - the only one outside Israel - is a fascist state is ludicrous. 

The hallmarks of fascism -
Extreme nationalism
Disdain for human rights.
Scapegoating enemies as a unifying cause.
Tightly controlled media.
Obsessive security in a surveillance state.
Using religion to bolster political power.
Pampering economic and corporate elites at the expense of have-nots.
Suppressing organized labour.
Excessive police powers and jailing as a political tool.
Rampant cronyism and corruption.
Fraudulent elections.

Where do all of the above exist?




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 20, 2022, 03:42:57 PM

The idea that a country with a Jewish president - the only one outside Israel - is a fascist state is ludicrous. 

No, it's not ludicrous. 
The idea that a country with a Jewish president would be a Nazi state is ludicrous.  Nazism and fascism are not the same thing.

Nazism is a political ideology.
Fascism is an economic system.

While Nazis were fascists, not all fascists are Nazis.  Almost all countries of the world are fascist countries.

Quote
The hallmarks of fascism -
Extreme nationalism
Disdain for human rights.
Scapegoating enemies as a unifying cause.
Tightly controlled media.
Obsessive security in a surveillance state.
Using religion to bolster political power.
Pampering economic and corporate elites at the expense of have-nots.
Suppressing organized labour.
Excessive police powers and jailing as a political tool.
Rampant cronyism and corruption.
Fraudulent elections.

Those are not hallmarks of fascism.  They are all 100% totally unrelated to fascism.

Fascism is an economic system of private ownership of goods, services, and the means of producing them - with government regulation over such.  That's all fascism is, nothing more and nothing less.  Fascism is also sometimes called crony capitalism.

What you have described are hallmarks of authoritarian regimes.  They have nothing to do with the economic system in that country.  (All those hallmarks are present in North Korea, and it is socialist, not fascist.)

Quote
Where do all of the above exist?

The US comes to mind for many of them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 20, 2022, 04:07:32 PM
Let's come back to the dictionnary:   
What is a fascist? Fascism (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism) is a system of government led by a dictator (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dictator) who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism, controlling all industry and commerce, and promoting nationalism (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nationalism) and often racism. (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/racism) 
What is a Nazi? Nazis (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nazi) don’t need much of an introduction: they were the German government and military that slaughtered over six million Jews and others during World War II.

✅ Nazism is  described as one type of fascism. Both fascism and Nazism reject democracy and liberalism as ideologies, and instead embrace the concept of a nationalist state (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/state).
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 20, 2022, 04:31:54 PM
Arguing over definitions is not useful.

Best to just describe a nation or government using adjectives and verbs rather than nouns.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 20, 2022, 04:34:10 PM
http://ukrainianweek.com/Politics/108311
Russian aggression in Crimea reveals interesting aspects of using criminal groups in politics


how about enabling a corrupt real estate developer use fake “special electors” to make him President?

Q: Was this Crimea in 2014 or USA on Jan 6 2021?

history may not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme a lot, maybe it's some kinda rap music
ras, vaz avtobus

Putin, may have overplayed his hand
but it ain't over til the fat lady sings
now the GRU will pull a "krolich" out of it's kapka
sealing the doom of the FSB apparchatki and Ukrainians

Putin only has two more defense zones in Southern Ukraine to destroy (like he did to Mauripol) to surround and cut-off Odessa and split Ukraine in two cutting it off from direct contact with the "chorny moira"  and one of these zones his forces are already on the outskirts

it appears Bela Russians are on the march tomorrow...
if he takes those two cities he's half way won the war

having this multi-front approach was also a problem when the germans attacked the Soviet Union
the Germans had 3 fronts:
Kyiv, Moscow and Leningrad

Putin should have used all his forces in the south, to split Ukraine first in a single unified front, then shoot straight up the Dniper to Kyiv....
Duh Pootin!

it looks like Putin IS now focusing his forces to the South, he's also getting a lot of fresh soldiers from Dagestan and maybe Belarus will join in this week

one of those big thermobaric bombs just went off in Kyiv, lit up the whole city





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 21, 2022, 02:32:51 PM
This is the menu scheddule for each every Ukrainian city encircled.
Read attentively.
http://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-edf7240a9d990e7e3e32f82ca351dede (http://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-edf7240a9d990e7e3e32f82ca351dede)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
As thought it looks like the west giving Ukraine weapons has only served to prolong this conflict with Ukraine being able to stall the Russian advance by knocking out many of their tanks. I wonder if it may have all been less bloody had we not given the weapons even though it may have meant Ukrainian defeat. Well I'm guessing at least Russia won't be invading another country in a hurry is the upside since it now seems bogged down in Ukraine.

If I were Russia I would get Belarusian or otherwise troops down from Belarus all along the border with Poland, Romania, etc. Cut off supplies to the whole of Ukraine, it as quite a long border but I'm guessing a lot of disruption is possible. I'm surprised they haven't gone south there already.

As it is I'm not sure where this is all going. The Russians seem to want to destroy Ukrainian cities one by one, that could take some time to achieve if it indeed does. It's also pretty horrific for the populace that have had this forced upon them by Putin. Looks like it's all going to be down to who cracks first, Russia or Ukraine and in what way, militarily, economically, etc.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 21, 2022, 08:01:13 PM
Arguing over definitions is not useful.

Best to just describe a nation or government using adjectives and verbs rather than nouns.
                                                     
                                                           (http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/icon_thumleft.gif)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2022, 05:31:32 PM
A lot of talk in the media about the Russian Invasion having stalled that and reckoning that Russia might only have 2-3 weeks before it exhausts its efforts in terms of ammo, tanks, men, etc.

Russian forces definitely been struggling to make headway with taking Kyiv and Mariupol still holding out despite Russia choking it and throwing everything they've got at it. Few advancements elsewhere for Russia also.

Some talk that Putin may be considering using chemical weapons, Hyperthermal missiles, etc to try and break the stalemate si his forces can advance.

So where does this all end? It's a difficult one I think, Putin won't want to lose, whether there will be a coup against him who knows. If not will he settle for a face saving Peace Treaty? who knows?

I think the odds of a Russian victory look more remote though it's not easy to ascertain how Ukraine is holding up under all of this or whether they might break all of a sudden. Clearly it looks like the west's supply of anti tank weapons have managed to stop the Russians in their tracks and stopped a complete swift collapse of Ukraine that I think would have happened anyway.

I think the only certainly is that Ukraine can only win this war to a certain point as end of the day Russia has many devastating long range missiles and chemicay weapons at their disposal. So the best Ukraine can probably hope is to push back and destroy a lit of Putin's forces then try and get a Peace Treaty. They can push into Russia as otherwise they'll be at greater risk of Russia retaliating in a bad way. So all depends on whether we see a Peace Treaty cone forth maybe in the next 2-3 weeks or so depending on what happens I guess.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2022, 09:16:14 PM
I am linking a piece by Niall Ferguson.

http://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-22/niall-ferguson-putin-and-biden-misunderstand-history-in-ukraine-war
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2022, 11:17:53 PM
I don't like to link to the Daily Mail, as it's sensationalistic, but it has a harrowing story today.  This is indicative of what is occurring.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10641683/RICHARD-PENDLEBURY-reports-young-people-caught-horror-war-Kyiv.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10641683/RICHARD-PENDLEBURY-reports-young-people-caught-horror-war-Kyiv.html)

Anyone who supports the Russian "position" is a supporter of the death and destruction of innocent people who just wish to live their lives.  There was no reason for the invasion of Ukraine.  None.  Zero. Zilch.  Nada. It has little to do with NATO.  It has nothing to do with the U.S., no matter how much anti American sentiment suggests otherwise.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 23, 2022, 05:52:21 AM
The people who support Putin/Russia in any way in this war are scum.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 23, 2022, 06:09:41 AM
I am linking a piece by Niall Ferguson.

http://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-22/niall-ferguson-putin-and-biden-misunderstand-history-in-ukraine-war

Interesting piece; thanks for posting link.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2022, 08:40:48 AM
I wouldn’t trust the “Western Perspective”as described by an elitist Scottish economist any more than I would trust his description of the “Russian Perspective”

Imagine, dear gentle readers, living in an alternate reality where EVERY SINGLE TV NEWS STATION IS A VERSION OF FOX NEWS, EVERY SINGLE ONE!

Every politically related news show, talk show, situation comedy, TV Series, are all written and approved by people who work for the Russian government…
AND so is every newspaper “gazeta” and ra-di-o
and when you go “walk-about” in Moscow, in random shops and offices
it’s all you hear people talking about, just repeating over and over what they saw/read

now imagine, for just a moment
what this relentless bombardment of the crudest propaganda, Nuremburg rally style ein volk, ein fuhrer moment that WE ALL SECRETLY LOVE (but won’t admit it!)!!!
will do to the least educated, less wealthy, less everything else, class of Gopnikia!

The answer is they become rabid far right supporters!

So all these “staruskas” instead of just being happy that they freaking survivied Covid, are now all over the TV, spewing their hatred of “hohol Amerikans”
with their stained and missing teeth and usually at least one worn gold tooth, although looks like some may have been extracted in leaner times…

This is the “Ugly Russian”. i.e. a stupid Russian with an ugly face!
unleased in Russia like a typhoon of old smelly baboshkas dressed in dirty worn-out black coats that are as old as they are

when I was in Russia, I ALWAYS had to fight with these nasty, samichki sellin’, suka babooshkas
they thought that because I was Western, I’d be an easy push-over for them
but, I gave them my cruelest sneer, and said “suka,  dobratsya do kontsa ocheredi”
“bitch, GET to the back of the line!”
then ending with a flick of my eyes, starting at her feet, and then meeting her eyes
and saying strongly, “durrachka”
I could feel the humiliation radiating from her body

and THIS my friends, is the essence of what the "Russian Perspective" is
and I don't need no fancy schmancy European economist to tell me!
ponelle?!

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2022, 01:44:47 PM
Russia strikes back.  I see the Ruble's value has gone up quite a while the price of a barrel of oil is also way up.   Today paid 6.09 a gallon to fill up my trucks.   

Putin Says “Hostile” States Should Pay In Rubles For Russian Natural Gas

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday that Russia would start charging the countries it considers “hostile” in rubles for its natural gas.

“I have taken a decision to switch to ruble payments for our natural gas supplies to the so-called hostile states, stop using the compromised currencies in such transactions,” Putin said, per a transcript published on the Kremlin website as carried by Bloomberg.

The Russian President—whose list of “hostile” states includes the United States, all EU member states, Switzerland, Canada, Norway, South Korea, Japan, and many others – has ordered the Bank of Russia, the central bank, to develop a system for payments in rubles within a week.


 http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Putin-Says-Hostile-States-Should-Pay-In-Rubles-For-Russian-Natural-Gas.html   (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Putin-Says-Hostile-States-Should-Pay-In-Rubles-For-Russian-Natural-Gas.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 23, 2022, 05:55:38 PM
NOTE: I have seen different polls with significantly different numbers.
Always take such polling news with a grain of salt.

Finland support to join NATO jumped from 26% to 60% following Russia's invasion
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/finland-shows-strong-support-for-nato-poll


Finland's people now strongly back joining NATO, poll says, a massive political shift that would enrage Russia
http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-majority-support-joining-nato-after-russia-invades-ukraine-survey-2022-3


Swedes, Finns Favor NATO Entry in Shift After Ukraine War
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-04/swedish-poll-shows-majority-backs-joining-nato-for-first-time
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 23, 2022, 05:57:54 PM
The ruble rebounded a bit because Russian bond markets reopened. It’s still not at levels it should be at.

This is a really good article by Timothy Snyder. I agree with his analysis on Putin’s mindset.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/23/putin-genocide-language-ukraine-wipe-out-state-identity/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2022, 07:04:49 PM
Osama Bin Ladin picked the most direct route to build a paved road down a steep mountainside
by first herding goats down the mountain, and retracing the route they took
the safest slope will be picked by the goats. they're smarter than civil engineers and surveyors!

I study the flow of money down a slope
and I to see a path traveled by “goats”:

The Russian Orthodox Church in the USA is the name of the group of parishes of the Russian mission in America that recognize the canonical authority of the Church of Russia. They were previously known as the Russian Exarchate of North America before autocephaly was granted to the Metropolia in 1970.
All of the parishes of the Exarchate were given a choice to join the OCA at that time. The parishes that remained were the following:

1. St. Nicholas Church, Brookside, Alabama
2. St. Demetrius Monastery, Bellflower, California
3. Christ the Savior Church, Berkeley, California
4. St. Nicholas Cathedral, San Francisco, California
5. Church of All Saints Glorified in the Russian Land, San Francisco, California
6. Our Lady of Kazan Church, San Diego, California
7. Resurrection Church, Chicago, Illinois
8. Dormition Church Benld, Illinois
9. Holy Trinity Church, Baltimore, Maryland
10. St. Elias Church, Battle Creek, Michigan
11. St. Innocent Church, Detroit, Michigan
12. St. Michael the Archangel Church, Detroit, Michigan
13. Church of St. Andrew the First-Called Apostle, East Lansing, Michigan
14. Holy Trinity Church, Saginaw, Michigan
15. St. John Chrysostom Church, Grand Rapids, Michigan
16. House Chapel of St. Seraphim of Sarov, Westown, New York
17. St. Demetrius Church, Jackson, Michigan
18. St. Nicholas Church, Bayonne, New Jersey
19. Sts. Peter and Paul Church, Elizabeth, New Jersey
20. Three Hierarchs Church, Garfield, New Jersey
21. Holy Cross Church, Hackettstown, New Jersey
22. Sts. Peter and Paul Church; Passaic, New Jersey
23. St. John the Baptist Church, Singac , New Jersey
24. St. Olga Church, Somerset, New Jersey
25. St. Mark Chapel, New York
26. Church of St. George the Great Martyr, New York
27. Church of All Saints Glorified in the Russian Land, on the estate of Pine Bush, New York
28. St. John the Baptist Chapel, Bronx, New York
29. Church of All Saints Glotified in the Russian Land, Amsterdam (Wolf Run), Ohio
30. St. Stephen Church, Lorairi, Ohio
31. Nativity of Christ Church, Youngstown, Ohio
32. St. Nicholas Church, Chester, Pennsylvania
33. St. Nicholas Church, Edinboro, Pageville, Pennsylvania
34. St. Nicholas Church, Reading, Pennsylvania
35. Sts. Peter and Paul Church, Mount Union, Pennsylvania
36. St. Nicholas Church, Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
37. St. Andrew the Apostle Church, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
38. St. Michael the Archangel Church, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
39. Sts. Peter and Paul Church, Scranton, Pennsylvania
40. Sts. Peter and Paul Church, Burgaw, North Carolina
41. St. Gregory the Theologian Church, Tampa, Florida
42. Sts. Peter and Paul Church, Manchester, New Hampshire
43. Church of St. George the Great Martyr, Buffalo, New York
44. All Exarchate parishes and clergy in Canada

All of them will be able to access the digital ruble income tax-free

olly-olly-umptenfree
all of them are now kinda oligarchy!

I would turn in all my enemies for the reward, but "fenya"
but if instead, I can find a way to stick a nosh in their kidney and twist it
I'll do that in a heart-beat...

so just watching and waiting for the right opportunity
go GRU (and their expat "contractors")!!

I wanna be
under the sea
in the "Aquarium"
and every Friday, have lunch with the boss

hahah LOL

PS
Pretty soon they'll be taking enemies to the basement of Lubayanka to the rooms with the hoses and drains in the middle of the floor
who can influence who calls out the listed names to add a few?
what difference will just a few more make in this senseless and tragic war...



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2022, 09:30:49 AM
The conspicuous absence of the Belarus army, 4 weeks into the war is “interesting”…
Pootin would love to use this army to drive North to South and cut-off the lines of communication of West to East Ukraine…
the Belorussians can by-pass cities, just cut the roads, doesn’t have to be a big fight

this would immediately reduce the flow of American and European weapons to threatened areas like Kyiv and Mykolaiv and so make the job of the Russian forces there easier, but of course, this hasn’t happened...

So far, in this war,
the risk to NATO is nearly ZERO and the gain against Russian forces is ENORMOUS
a war off attrition with Russia, with no losses on the NATO side, how can you NOT take that?
What a deal for NATO!!!
HUGE win for NATO!!!

not so good for Ukraine, Russia is the jealous boyfriend who beats and kills any woman who would ever leave or betray him…

So Pootin has chosen the “Chechan Solution” for Ukraine
because Maidan, meant that Ukraine was gonna leave him for another man…
and Pootin, just couldn’t let it go….

BTW, second Chechen war, which Pootin presided over, lasted 5 months, and ended with the Russian military taking over the country

you would not be able to tell the ruins of Grozny or Mauripol apart from each other
they both look exactly alike

Russia is getting ready to "mobilize"
and go full "medevil on Ukraine's ass"

when the war is over, I'm gonna buy me a castle and my own Ukrainian village
and once more there will be naked young ukrainian girls swimming in my pool
because I have the only swimming pool within 10 miles of the village
ahhhh, good times....

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 24, 2022, 10:27:10 AM
The conspicuous absence of the Belarus army, 4 weeks into the war is “interesting”…
Pootin would love to use this army to drive North to South and cut-off the lines of communication of West to East Ukraine…
the Belorussians can by-pass cities, just cut the roads, doesn’t have to be a big fight

this would immediately reduce the flow of American and European weapons to threatened areas like Kyiv and Mykolaiv and so make the job of the Russian forces there easier, but of course, this hasn’t happened...

So far, in this war,
the risk to NATO is nearly ZERO and the gain against Russian forces is ENORMOUS
a war off attrition, with no losses on the NATO side, how can you NOT take that?
What a deal for NATO!!!
HUGE win for NATO!!!

not so good for Ukraine, Russia is the jealous boyfriend who beats and kills any woman who would ever leave or betray him…

So Pootin has chosen the “Chechan Solution” for Ukraine
because Maidan, meant that Ukraine was gonna leave him for another man…
and Pootin, just couldn’t let it go….

BTW, second Chechen war, which Pootin presided over, lasted 5 months, and ended with the Russian military taking over the country

you would not be able to tell the ruins of Grozny or Mauripol apart from each other
they both look exactly alike

Russia is getting ready to "mobilize"
and go full "medevil on Ukraine's ass"

when the war is over, I'm gonna buy me a castle and my own Ukrainian village
and once more there will be naked young ukrainian girls swimming in my pool
because I have the only swimming pool within 10 miles of the village
ahhhh, good times....

Really ready to mobilize, are you serious?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2022, 10:35:43 AM
it's coming, oui!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 24, 2022, 11:06:39 AM

Really ready to mobilize, are you serious?

"Russia is going to shell its own cities to blame Ukraine"
(Similar to 1999 apartment bombings.)
"Russia can start such kind of provocations to announce mass mobilization."
http://tsn.ua/en/ato/russia-is-going-to-shell-its-own-cities-to-blame-ukraine-head-of-kharkiv-military-civilian-administration-2018350.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 24, 2022, 01:03:38 PM
I wouldn’t trust the “Western Perspective”as described by an elitist Scottish economist any more than I would trust his description of the “Russian Perspective”


Neill Ferguson is an historian, not an economist.  The piece was about history, not the Russian perspective, and how the American assumption that continuing war in Ukraine will undermine Putin and cow China is misguided.  Ferguson says history doesn't support this.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2022, 02:19:53 PM
Niall frequently writes about economics so I call him that
history and economics are inseparable

the history of Western economix is about as relevant as “The Kardshians” when it comes to Russia
The Narodnaya Volya is ALWAYS someone’s creation
And the government is now in charge of that…

Ukraine is just the catalyst for what is to come, piled on top of Covid...

SHOCK THERAPY BABY!!!

sleepy Russians will wake-y wake-y now!!!

PS
if I were in Russia at this VERY moment, FSB and GRU would be fighting over who "owns" me, and I’d probably be at least under house arrest
in the pogrom season, it's good to understand meterology
in Russia, the dark clouds generally mean it's gonna rain soon...
hmmmmm hmmmmmm....

my knowledge of the Russian perspective comes from hitchin rides with Russian soldiers and bunker diving on Fort Stalin, where I was the first human to ever go to the third level
after it was blown up by the NKVD with hundreds of Russian soldiers inside
I crawled over them and absorbed their knowledge and power...

after I created the opening, midnight archeologists came and explosive salvagers for the big heavy shells
I came there to get high in the dark with them, they were once all part of my "crew" in Krim


 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2022, 02:47:07 PM
What I don't understand in all of this is why Russia is only using a fraction of its army. Apparently it's Army is HUGE:

http://images.app.goo.gl/Hq1PU5CQ9EoFDJys7

So why don't they take a huge chunk of their army and invade on all fronts?

I half expected them to come down through Belarus towards Lviv and cut of the border, cut of the roads as Boe states to stop the supply of weapons into Ukraine and so give themselves an easier time. I thought they would bring in masses of tanks to overpower Ukrainian cities by sheer number.

I understand they need to protect their other borders but I doubt anyone is going to attack Russia as they have Nukes. So if it were me I would take a large chunk of forces and attack. Only thing I can think of is the economic cost of doing so but I would be surprised if they can't do it for a short while. Other than that would be someone taking control of a large army in one place and initiating a coup that of course could be a possibility.

Other than that I cannot think of a reason why a nation with a large army would attack and go about this almost like they had a small army and had nothing more. Not sure if the above reasons sound out but it just seems a strange thing to do.

Apparently today Mariupol got shelled from the sea, apparently nothing really left of it. I read that it was quite an attractive city before the war, the article said it was middle class, never been there myself so never saw how it was apart from the ariel photos and photos of it shelled out. The Mayor of Mariupol has apparently now fled, managed to get out somehow, his 'excuse' is that he can organise the humanitarian corridors better from outside Mariupol as no communication connection their now. Funny the excuses that such dignitaries come up with to excuse themselves from such situations. I wonder if Mariupol has much left in it before a surrender or they are overrun, food must have run out some time ago now and the soldiers must be exhausted possibly running out of ammo also. Seems Russian units, Chechens have been storming the city fighting street to street gun battles to try and take the place.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2022, 02:53:43 PM

when the war is over, I'm gonna buy me a castle and my own Ukrainian village
and once more there will be naked young ukrainian girls swimming in my pool
because I have the only swimming pool within 10 miles of the village
ahhhh, good times....

Now this is a vision I can get with! :D It strikes a chord with me. Wouldn't mind doing this myself if I had the money. Maybe we could join up and have a party :thumbsup:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 24, 2022, 03:43:02 PM
For those of you who thought Ukraine would give up after 2-3 days of Russian invasion.

Here is the work of brave Ukrainian men and women using USA Javelins  and Ukrainian Stugna-P.

But Ukraine needs even more Javelins and a resupply of the associated short range projectiles because Russia has a huge number of tanks and military trucks that are waiting to be destroyed.

Western countries are supplying a lot of materials, but the Ukrainian people are fighting alone against dictators and autocracies to save the concept of democracies worldwide.

In the past, the USA has spent billions around the world to try to get democracies established.  Here with Ukraine, there is already a democracy that needs saved.

Cheaper and more efficient to save a democracy than to create new ones.

After encountering Ukrainian ability as shown in the clip, the coward Russians want nothing to do with fighting Ukrainians up close and are resorting to chicken shit method of long range missile attacks.

The short clip can be viewed even if you (like me) don't have a Twitter account.  Either website works.

http://twitter.com/EuroMaydan/status/1503767160191131658


http://twitter.com/i/status/1503767160191131658

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 24, 2022, 04:48:06 PM
Niall frequently writes about economics so I call him that
history and economics are inseparable

the history of Western economix is about as relevant as “The Kardshians” when it comes to Russia
The Narodnaya Volya is ALWAYS someone’s creation
And the government is now in charge of that…

Ukraine is just the catalyst for what is to come, piled on top of Covid...

SHOCK THERAPY BABY!!!

sleepy Russians will wake-y wake-y now!!!

PS
if I were in Russia at this VERY moment, FSB and GRU would be fighting over who "owns" me, and I’d probably be at least under house arrest
in the pogrom season, it's good to understand meterology
in Russia, the dark clouds generally mean it's gonna rain soon...
hmmmmm hmmmmmm....

my knowledge of the Russian perspective comes from hitchin rides with Russian soldier’s and bunker diving on Fort Stalin, where I was the first human to ever go to the third level

after it was blown up by the NKVD with hundreds of Russian soldiers inside
I crawled over them and absorbed their knowledge and power...

after I created the opening, midnight archeologists came and explosive salvagers for the big heavy shells
I came there to get high in the dark with them

Krim you are  unique

 :ROFL: I also understand meteorology and that's why I warned people to not go to Ukraine 33 days before the attack, telling them it will be invaded. A lot of people didn't want to believe me  8)   
Krim what have you seen in Fort Stalin (you can write to me in PM)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 24, 2022, 04:56:47 PM
it's coming, oui!

You are right, I check it out, but it comes slightly.
The funniest thing is now a lot of guys who have accepted a lovely Russian passport in the DNR are now potentially under mobilization.
What a gift  :P
What a joy to become the front-line flag and target of their Ukrainian fellas that wait for them impatiently with their dazzling Western military toys.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2022, 06:35:58 PM
I saw a bunch of dead Russians who didn't smell too bad cuz they were dead so long (mummified) and broken pipes and stacks of shells, and equipment etc.
the upper floor with the taller uncollapsed ceiling became our gang's head quarters

Crimeans got conscripted as well, I have nephews in the Russian army from Crimea, I gave them all iphones to keep track of them, I add their position to the name of their unit I get from when I write them letters :)
so I know where they ALL are!!!
I have many nephews :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on March 24, 2022, 06:58:25 PM
What I don't understand in all of this is why Russia is only using a fraction of its army. Apparently it's Army is HUGE:

http://images.app.goo.gl/Hq1PU5CQ9EoFDJys7 (http://images.app.goo.gl/Hq1PU5CQ9EoFDJys7)

So why don't they take a huge chunk of their army and invade on all fronts?

I half expected them to come down through Belarus towards Lviv and cut of the border, cut of the roads as Boe states to stop the supply of weapons into Ukraine and so give themselves an easier time. I thought they would bring in masses of tanks to overpower Ukrainian cities by sheer number.

I understand they need to protect their other borders but I doubt anyone is going to attack Russia as they have Nukes. So if it were me I would take a large chunk of forces and attack. Only thing I can think of is the economic cost of doing so but I would be surprised if they can't do it for a short while. Other than that would be someone taking control of a large army in one place and initiating a coup that of course could be a possibility.

Other than that I cannot think of a reason why a nation with a large army would attack and go about this almost like they had a small army and had nothing more. Not sure if the above reasons sound out but it just seems a strange thing to do.

Apparently today Mariupol got shelled from the sea, apparently nothing really left of it. I read that it was quite an attractive city before the war, the article said it was middle class, never been there myself so never saw how it was apart from the ariel photos and photos of it shelled out. The Mayor of Mariupol has apparently now fled, managed to get out somehow, his 'excuse' is that he can organise the humanitarian corridors better from outside Mariupol as no communication connection their now. Funny the excuses that such dignitaries come up with to excuse themselves from such situations. I wonder if Mariupol has much left in it before a surrender or they are overrun, food must have run out some time ago now and the soldiers must be exhausted possibly running out of ammo also. Seems Russian units, Chechens have been storming the city fighting street to street gun battles to try and take the place.

Only if you are into huge coal-fired steel mills and power plants spewing out unscrubbed remnants of the dirty Donbas region coal. Fact is, some time back National Geographic listed Mariupol as among the most polluted cities in the world. When I visited, the only thing visible from a steel mill 100 yards away was the top of the stacks at about 100 ft chugging out filfthy debris that clung to your clothing and skin. Sea of Asov is used to supply cooling water and also to receive effluent. Needless to mention the fish have unhealthy levels of toxins, yet they still show up on your plate at the restaurants.


Still, the city is strategic and the defense has been hard-fought.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 24, 2022, 11:00:16 PM
My parents visited Mariupol in 2013. They said it was a very pretty city.

This is an interesting article about an American marine who fought with the Ukrainian army.

http://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/american-volunteer-foreign-fighters-ukraine-russia-war/627604/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 24, 2022, 11:08:06 PM
The priest gunned down at a checkpoint.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60778909.amp
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 25, 2022, 12:48:32 AM
Only if you are into huge coal-fired steel mills and power plants spewing out unscrubbed remnants of the dirty Donbas region coal. Fact is, some time back National Geographic listed Mariupol as among the most polluted cities in the world. When I visited, the only thing visible from a steel mill 100 yards away was the top of the stacks at about 100 ft chugging out filfthy debris that clung to your clothing and skin. Sea of Asov is used to supply cooling water and also to receive effluent. Needless to mention the fish have unhealthy levels of toxins, yet they still show up on your plate at the restaurants.


Still, the city is strategic and the defense has been hard-fought.
 
+1 
In Belarus in the Eastern parts, many have forgotten the outcome of Tchernobyl in this region. They are real, milk, fruits put you in danger... (Gomel)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 25, 2022, 01:36:04 AM
This is the Twitter account of James Vasquez, anAmerican former soldier who volunteered in Ukraine. He is the only American in his unit. He updates his Twitter account fairly regularly.

http://mobile.twitter.com/jmvasquez1974?lang=en
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 25, 2022, 03:59:59 AM

You should try and put that link up in the other place,and see if the Putin fanboy owner instantly deletes it..which is his usual MO.


Good news that the Ukrainian military has now re-taken towns up to 35 km East of Kyiv,with the Russians falling back...as confirmed by the British MOD,which also says Russian supply lines are over-extended.


A Russian landing ship and ammunition warehouse was destroyed in Russian occupied Berdyansk yesterday..according to the Ukraine Navy.


The bad news is that Russian forces continue to advance toward Odesa.



Interesting comment from Biden that NATO will respond in kind if Russia uses chemical weapons in Ukraine....wonder what that means ?


The USA and EU have announced a deal for the USA to supply the EU with 15 Billion cubic metres more of LNG this year,with higher amounts next year,as Europe starts to move away from Russian Gas supplies.


The UK gets only 3% of our Gas supply from Russia,so it isn't such an issue for us to replace it from elsewhere.

18,600 UK Visa's have now been granted to Ukrainian refugees.

The Kremlin sees Boris Johnson as public enemy number 1 for his anti-Putin stance  ;D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 25, 2022, 05:17:13 AM
Similar website set up by the Bank of Ukraine to donate for humanitarian assistance rather than the army.

http://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-rahunok-dlya-gumanitarnoyi-dopomogi-ukrayintsyam-postrajdalim-vid-rosiyskoyi-agresiyi
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2022, 08:28:13 AM
My parents visited Mariupol in 2013. They said it was a very pretty city.

This is an interesting article about an American marine who fought with the Ukrainian army.

http://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/american-volunteer-foreign-fighters-ukraine-russia-war/627604/

My guess is like most cities moreso ex-Soviet cities the city centre is pretty but most of the residential outskirts less so.

An interesting article, shows that our Javlin & NLAW anti tank gear is really having an effect in turning this war around for Ukraine. Not sure about the Rambo in question looks like he was either a deserter having had enough or told to go as he wasn't really up for it, and after only one month into the war.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2022, 08:46:27 AM
"So part of me has already been thinking about 'Reconstruuuksiya' after this war has all blown over, soon I hope for the sake of the poor Ukrainian people who are unjustly having misery inflicted upon them all."

Dewd, Nyet, forget about working for someone else
ONLY work for yourself…

let me give you a plan Stan,
when the war is over, borrow as much money as you can on your UK property and rent it out
live with yur mom temporarily or something
then take this money and go to Ukraine
and buy 3 contiguous lots of land that have utility access (water, gas, electricity, cable)
then take whatever buildings are on it and fix ‘em up
and build yur own mansion with a swimming pool right in the middle
then surround everything with Apricot trees

you can do whatever “bizness” you want here, discreetly and without ANY interference
ZERO income tax to!

I ran three different "biznezz enterprises" out of what looked like a "Hill Billy Paradise" complete with copper moonshine still

Voila! "The Rancho Del Krimster", now in Russian hands!!!
Trench all this cost me about $60,000 for 3X20 soteks plus existing "shacks" and including an old Lada and a Zhighouli!!!
also about a year of my time, "doing stuff" mainly carpentry and plumbing and electrical

I ended up with what looked like a compound of some kind, that I later put a fence around to keep people out
plus I had straight access to a 480V transformer with .02 per killowatt hr cost and a big yellow gas line for cheap gas as well
ended up digging my own deep drill well for water and solar pool heater
with 2 car garage and huge Metal Gate
and NO POLICE to bribe!!!





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 25, 2022, 11:24:19 AM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44673/ukraine-needs-ground-based-air-defenses-way-more-than-migs-here-are-the-best-options
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 25, 2022, 11:39:54 AM
We hear a lot about Russian planes being shot down or otherwise destroyed by Ukraine.

But what about Ukrainian planes.

I found this website.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

A little bit hard to count, but I came up with 20 Ukrainian and 18 Russian as of last update on 22 March 2022.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 25, 2022, 01:19:50 PM
You should try and put that link up in the other place,and see if the Putin fanboy owner instantly deletes it..which is his usual MO.


Matthew 10:14.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 25, 2022, 06:19:19 PM
Today a trio of Russian generals announced that it had succeeded in sub-goal of diminishing Ukrainian military capability and now Russia would pivot to it's main goal of solidifying control of Donbas.

http://www.reuters.com/world/us/ukraine-urges-halt-russias-assault-biden-heads-poland-2022-03-25/

Quite a come-down from Putin's list of 6 or so demands.

I am hoping that Ukraine will continue to destroy more of Russian troops and equipment . . . and after Russia withdraws its troops from most of Ukraine, Ukraine will send bulk of its army to rout Russia in Donbas.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 25, 2022, 07:03:33 PM
A seventh Russian general, Lieutenant General Yakov Rezanstev, has died in Ukraine

http://www.barrons.com/news/russia-signals-less-ambitious-goals-in-ukraine-war-01648252207?tesla=y

and a Russian colonel had been "deliberately" killed by his own demoralized men.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-commander-deliberately-killed-by-his-own-troops-due-to-ukraine-losses-160618503.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on March 26, 2022, 05:32:17 AM
and a Russian colonel had been "deliberately" killed by his own demoralized men.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-commander-deliberately-killed-by-his-own-troops-due-to-ukraine-losses-160618503.html

That tends to happen to Officers (zeros) that do not care or are incompetent and waste the lives of their soldiers. It has happened to the US military in Vietnam, another very unpopular war. Hence the term "fragging"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2022, 06:53:43 AM
"Matthew 10:14."

John #2
Saint Pralidoxime's letter to the Bishop of Atropine
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 26, 2022, 10:34:00 AM

Matthew 10:14.

Excellent point
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 26, 2022, 06:32:48 PM
 (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sbr032622dAPC20220326034516.jpg)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 27, 2022, 06:01:38 AM
There are now thousands of Belarusians fighting in Ukraine....and they're fighting FOR Ukraine.


They're dissidents against Lukashenko and they hate him as much as the Ukrainians now hate Russia.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2022, 08:27:48 AM
I’ve been an "enlisted man" in two different military systems, USA and Israel…
AND I know the Russian military VERY well :)

Russians suffer from many deficiencies…
The conscript system, means they have a lot of inexperienced soldiers in the lower ranks
and few real professionals
expendable cannon fodder is all they really are…
they don’t EVEN have an NCO corps
the US and Israeli military are VERY dependent on NCOs
Russians instead have jr inexperienced officers
it doesn’t work very well this way, I’ve seen the contrast…

plus, just like in Ukraine, almost everything in the inventory has been looted and sold
hell, I even bought some of it myself

this reminds me of the war with Japan in 1904-1905
when Russia realized it needed to reform it’s Army after being defeated by Japan

Pootin is NOT “Pootin the Great” like “Peter the modernizer”
the kleptocracy has hollowed out Russia and this is the direct result
(but of course, being Russian, they will not accept the responsibility, and instead blame NATO and Amerika

the pendulum in Russia is swinging FAR to the right, Russia is imploding before it explodes

Russia needs NEW leadership, but it will take a 1917 moment to do this
and there’s no opposition, no “People’s Will” to shake shite up
I would trade 5,000 protestors in Moscow, for 5 in the Narodnaya Volya
disclaimer: I am related to one of the conspirators: Hesya Helfman
her relatives moved to Odessa after "the incident next to a church", and then to the USA
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 27, 2022, 03:12:49 PM
As somebody wrily observed, if Putin had acted on the corruption in the Russian army exposed by Navalny this war would be going a lot better for him.

Also if they had elimninated the horrible hazing tradition in the Russian army they would probably have more motivated conscripts.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2022, 04:01:42 PM
"China has cancelled a $500 million investment in Russian gas"
google it!!

now even China has turned against Pooty-Poot, his only allies are now Trump and a few Republicans and maybe Serbia (a little bit)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 27, 2022, 05:22:36 PM
"China has cancelled a $500 million investment in Russian gas"
google it!!

Great News !!
Thanks for posting.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 27, 2022, 08:01:36 PM
Looks like Ukraine may have been committing war crimes.  That will kill any support they currently have.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 27, 2022, 08:26:59 PM
Looks like Ukraine may have been committing war crimes.  That will kill any support they currently have.

A quite details report you post here complete with reference URLs.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 27, 2022, 08:29:52 PM
You’re referring to the video if shooting out knees?  If yes, the “Ukrainians” had Russian accents. It’s not how Russian speakers speak Russian in Ukraine.  Furthermore the German based Russian “reporter” who first posted it on Twitter took it down. 

Chelseaboy, here are a couple videos you can post for the Nazi obsessed elsewhere.

http://youtu.be/2gNp0PfK0CI

http://youtu.be/GV4v31azgQM
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2022, 08:44:19 PM
"Looks like Ukraine may have been committing war crimes."

You mean "special military operations" crimes, right?
Yes, you're right! aggressive Ukrainians have been attacking peaceful Russian cruise missiles with their apartments, dasterdly deeds for sure!!!
if only the lamestream liberul western media would show the result of these attacks on peacful cruise missiles
good thing you have "alternative" media to show you the Pravda, er I mean Truth.... right Tovarisch?









 


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 27, 2022, 09:40:37 PM
Another place to make donations.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 27, 2022, 10:38:44 PM
This is the video I assume Live is referring to.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LR1Oeb-AEes

Everyone in it is speaking with accents from Luhansk or Donetsk. All of them, even the “Russian” soldiers.

This may be fake, but nevertheless, it’s being investigated by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2022, 04:08:47 AM
Kyiv not looking in great shape from this report:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10656961/Civilians-Kyiv-starving-forced-drink-SEWAGE-water-Ukrainian-MP-says.html

Might explain why Zelensky seems to be willing to throw in the towel by stating that Ukraine won't be able to get all the Russian Army out if Ukraine and so angling for a negotiated peace with Russia. I find that remarkable giving the amount of damage Ukraine has been able to inflict upon the Russian Army with demoralisation high in the Russian Army and Putin having to call upon troops with even worse morale and training.

So it looks like despite Kyiv not quite being encircled by Russian troops that it's been difficult for Kyiv to get food deliveries into the city hence I assume why Zelensky is seeing that he may not be able to go all the way and kick Russian troops out of Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 28, 2022, 05:05:28 AM
Another place to make donations.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv

I was just about to link that. Great minds etc. I sent a PayPal contribution. Quite a straightforward process.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2022, 06:06:17 AM
Is there a direct link to the crowdfund for this ?


I'm not seeing one in the Guardian article.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2022, 06:18:36 AM
Looks like Ukraine may have been committing war crimes.  That will kill any support they currently have.


No it won't ..people are more concerned about Russian military/terrorists bombing hospitals and theatres where women and children were hiding,and mass shelling of civilian apartment blocks as they have in Mariupol and Kharkiv.


A few Russian terrorists being knee-capped,if it isn't fake,isn't going to sway support one jot.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2022, 07:22:21 AM
""Looks like Ukraine may have been committing war crimes."

well...
ACTUALLY, these videos were made BY RUSSIANS just for "special" people like you!
I hope it's not TOO UPSETTING for you that not only did "sleepy Joe" whup Trump's pathetic ass,
it now looks like he's gonna do the same to Putin's little Jhoppa as well
the rest of your arguments were just as bogus as your Russian videos
sad...
 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2022, 08:14:50 AM
Irpin has now been re-taken by Ukrainian forces.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 28, 2022, 08:36:53 AM
Is there a direct link to the crowdfund for this ?


I'm not seeing one in the Guardian article.

In I think the fourth paragraph there is a hyperlink on the word crowdfunding. That takes you to their Facebook page. From there is a link to their website. On the link below I chose option 3 via PayPal

http://aerorozvidka.xyz/?fbclid=IwAR3DnrDGRoAhOciXLO79gj8OGQ_rsKp-buRVfC0nSrP6Gm6yUiHrgl4uwbY
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 28, 2022, 08:37:37 AM
By all means follow that route to be satisfied all is in order.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 28, 2022, 09:00:10 AM
Chelseaboy, here are a couple videos you can post for the Nazi obsessed elsewhere.


Boe, thanks for posting this info.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2022, 09:45:54 AM
In I think the fourth paragraph there is a hyperlink on the word crowdfunding. That takes you to their Facebook page. From there is a link to their website. On the link below I chose option 3 via PayPal

http://aerorozvidka.xyz/?fbclid=IwAR3DnrDGRoAhOciXLO79gj8OGQ_rsKp-buRVfC0nSrP6Gm6yUiHrgl4uwbY (http://aerorozvidka.xyz/?fbclid=IwAR3DnrDGRoAhOciXLO79gj8OGQ_rsKp-buRVfC0nSrP6Gm6yUiHrgl4uwbY)


Thanks for that and i've sent them some money through Paypal.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 28, 2022, 10:16:37 AM

Looks like Ukraine may have been committing war crimes.  That will kill any support they currently have.

" A document has been leaked from Russia with the aim of shooting propaganda videos to discredit the attitude of the Ukrainian military towards Russian prisoners of war," the statement said.
It is noteworthy that the document was issued not by Russian Defense Minister Shoigu, but by "Acting Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation" General Bulgakov.
http://tsn.ua/ato/hakeri-anonymous-zlili-dokument-minoboroni-rf-z-nakazom-znimati-feykovi-video-znuschan-nad-polonenimi-rf-2022592.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 28, 2022, 11:23:49 AM
Is there a direct link to the crowdfund for this ?


I'm not seeing one in the Guardian article.


Here is one.


http://aerorozvidka.xyz/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 28, 2022, 01:03:22 PM
Remember the “brave tv presenter”?

http://mobile.twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508201460487659528?s=20&t=qRleAcLAQTB0s9irLG5sug
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2022, 01:37:47 PM
For English speaking persons, I highly recommend the book:

“State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program”
by Vil S Mirzayanov  available on Amazon

this gives the absolute best English language description that will help you understand the “news” later on…

ONLY Russian documents are more detailed than this…


to me what’s REALLY funny is right across the street from The State Research Institute of Organic Chemistry and Technology (GosNIIOKhT)  is a perfume shop!!!
and the sales women there  are REALLY weird!!!
they totally freak out whenever a foreigner walks in!!!
hmmmm hmmmmm....

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 28, 2022, 02:37:41 PM
Remember the “brave tv presenter”?

http://mobile.twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508201460487659528?s=20&t=qRleAcLAQTB0s9irLG5sug

We thought she was throwing away a well paid gig for 15 years in a Putin gulag and she instead got a $300 fine...

I saw she later edited the post to remove all mentions of sanctions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 28, 2022, 02:38:08 PM
This is an interesting thread in Russian military “strategy”.  It includes plenty of book recommendations.

http://mobile.twitter.com/ProfPaulPoast/status/1507701272203382784?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on March 28, 2022, 03:25:52 PM

Here is one.


http://aerorozvidka.xyz/

I havent used Paypal for quite a long time. After using their services to send a donation today i just received an email from them saying:

Hi Steven,
To welcome you back to PayPal, we're giving you the chance to get £5. All you need to do is to sign in via the button below by ‌31 March 2022 to claim the £5 reward.

So that is another fiver that has just been sent to them!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2022, 03:29:27 PM
I've been using Paypal for 23 years and they've never given me a penny.


Clearly i'm doing something wrong  :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2022, 03:40:06 PM
For English speaking persons, I highly recommend the book:

“State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program”
by Vil S Mirzayanov  available on Amazon

this gives the absolute best English language description that will help you understand the “news” later on…

ONLY Russian documents are more detailed than this…


to me what’s REALLY funny is right across the street from The State Research Institute of Organic Chemistry and Technology (GosNIIOKhT)  is a perfume shop!!!
and the sales women there  are REALLY weird!!!
they totally freak out whenever a foreigner walks in!!!
hmmmm hmmmmm....


I for one am glad you're back posting on here Krim.


I always enjoy reading your posts,even if i don't always agree with you and sometimes i haven't got a clue what you're posting about.


You have a lot of insight into the FSU ...you even make Uzbekistan sound like a good place to visit. :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2022, 04:08:46 PM
thanks "bruv"

soon I'm gonna be too busy babysitting young Russian men to post here, I have to pay a lot of attention to them, because they're "displaced persons"
and they don't have much of a clue about ANYTHING, but my daughters are married to them, and their families took EXCELLENT care of my daughters when they were in Russia
so I am honor bound to be a surrogate parent, I have them enrolled in on-line university learning "cyber security" and my daughters help them with homework, etc
I did a k-1 visa for my wife many yrs ago, and now I did 2 k-2's for them, right now they all live in Israel, not many places these malchicky can go to
though I just found out they can apply for temporary asylum here in the USA, so we're getting ready to do that

I may never get back to Russia, I miss my many druzya, everyone is afraid to talk to me now :(
Russia will likely have some kinda economic and social collapse in the not too distant future
two years ago, I thought it was gonna be the USA in the collapse-alypse
how wrong I was, right idea, but wrong locale




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2022, 05:02:14 PM
thanks "bruv"

soon I'm gonna be too busy babysitting young Russian men to post here, I have to pay a lot of attention to them, because they're "displaced persons"
and they don't have much of a clue about ANYTHING, but my daughters are married to them, and their families took EXCELLENT care of my daughters when they were in Russia
so I am honor bound to be a surrogate parent, I have them enrolled in on-line university learning "cyber security" and my daughters help them with homework, etc
I did a k-1 visa for my wife many yrs ago, and now I did 2 k-2's for them, right now they all live in Israel, not many places these malchicky can go to
though I just found out they can apply for temporary asylum here in the USA, so we're getting ready to do that

I may never get back to Russia, I miss my many druzya, everyone is afraid to talk to me now :(
Russia will likely have some kinda economic and social collapse in the not too distant future
two years ago, I thought it was gonna be the USA in the collapse-alypse
how wrong I was, right idea, but wrong locale

They're Russian? How come they are out of Russia? Did they fall out of favour with the regime? All not quite work to plan out there?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2022, 06:58:27 PM
When Winter storms are coming
the birds will all fly south
that’s part of their nature
even those who were protecting me
aren’t safe any more
no one is now
and it’s going to get MUCH worse
EVERYTHING in Russia is in an escalating crisis to some degree

I have a LOT of skills to teach my “sons” daughters and future grandchildren
that were taught to me by my Russian great uncles and babooshka
who all dealt with these circumstances in the past as well
life is but a circle


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 28, 2022, 09:32:47 PM
There’s an AMA on the war with WSJ journalist Yaroslav Trofimov.

http://mobile.twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1508455307361533952
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 29, 2022, 05:27:28 AM
Russian Deputy Defence Minister claims Russia to drastically reduce military activities around Kyiv and Chernihiv...no doubt because they're getting their arses kicked in those areas now.


Just had a Ukrainian MP on CNN.He was saying the smell in Ukraine is appalling now,because of the dead bodies of Russian soldiers everywhere and the Russians don't take them away,leaving them for Dogs to eat.


I can confirm i've seen plenty of dead Russian/Chechen bodies lying around Kharkiv,even in people's back gardens.on the news reports .
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 29, 2022, 08:02:55 AM


http://twitter.com/niktwick/status/1508490884794441728
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 29, 2022, 08:04:20 AM
http://euroradio.fm/en/rail-war-belarus-partisans-prevent-military-trains-going-ukraine
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 29, 2022, 08:06:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s5IBXNBc2I

vidish!

a different kind of "Mein Kampf"
Russian families have to send their stariks and starushkas out to sweep up whatever food is available, when it's avialable, just like the Soviet period
these people will TOTALLY "cut-you" in line, so ya have to be prepared to be REALLY aggressive with them
'ahhhhh, good times!

Russians use a chat app, called "Telegram" to barter for medicines and other unobtainium
they have to fly from Moscow to Tashkent to setup banking there and get an Uzbek Visa card!!!
no dollars are available in Moscow AT ALL, NONE!!!  they're rarer than a cheeseburger now!
hmmmmm, gamburger....


note: Russians are tryin to "take down" youtube

PS, I LOVE the statue of Lenin in the background, I think he's pointing to the line for sausages!!
hmmm, kolbasa....



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 29, 2022, 08:26:14 AM

http://twitter.com/niktwick/status/1508490884794441728 (http://twitter.com/niktwick/status/1508490884794441728)


Well i haven't a clue what they're saying but the girl seems well up for it...she raised her weapon and started patting it.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 29, 2022, 02:11:30 PM

Well i haven't a clue what they're saying . . .

That's where our FSU gals are useful to have nearby !
Get you one of them there gals.

OK, so I had wife come and watch the video and explain to me.
Each of the young men (I didn't notice until later that one was a woman) stated which town they came from.

Said they were forced into the Russian army.

Then they told how they were only given simple rifle to fight against better equipped Ukrainians and were sure that most of them would die needlessly.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 29, 2022, 02:30:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_9qFjmBLKA

if I were Russian, I'd rather take my chances going up against the Ukrainian Army than shopping in Russia and going up against determined staroshkas lookin to score some chai
slovo!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2022, 04:27:12 PM
Russian Deputy Defence Minister claims Russia to drastically reduce military activities around Kyiv and Chernihiv...no doubt because they're getting their arses kicked in those areas now.


Just had a Ukrainian MP on CNN.He was saying the smell in Ukraine is appalling now,because of the dead bodies of Russian soldiers everywhere and the Russians don't take them away,leaving them for Dogs to eat.


I can confirm i've seen plenty of dead Russian/Chechen bodies lying around Kharkiv,even in people's back gardens.on the news reports .

Russia says it's to redeploy to the Donbass but I wouldn't be surprised if they instead go back to Belarus, across and then strike down towards Lviv. Makes sense to cut off or at least hinder supplies of weapons and food to Central & Eastern Ukraine. They've been hitting targets around Lviv of recently and that makes more sense as a prelude to attack. I think the Donbass is a smoke screen, I've no doubt they want it but it's also foolish to tell your enemy what you are going to do.

Probably a good few more weeks of this to go yet. I reckon that neither side will want to be premeptive at the negotiating table but will no that only fighting it out will likely decide who will have to concede over the Donbass.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 30, 2022, 01:55:55 AM
Kyiv not looking in great shape from this report:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10656961/Civilians-Kyiv-starving-forced-drink-SEWAGE-water-Ukrainian-MP-says.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10656961/Civilians-Kyiv-starving-forced-drink-SEWAGE-water-Ukrainian-MP-says.html)

Might explain why Zelensky seems to be willing to throw in the towel by stating that Ukraine won't be able to get all the Russian Army out if Ukraine and so angling for a negotiated peace with Russia. I find that remarkable giving the amount of damage Ukraine has been able to inflict upon the Russian Army with demoralisation high in the Russian Army and Putin having to call upon troops with even worse morale and training.

So it looks like despite Kyiv not quite being encircled by Russian troops that it's been difficult for Kyiv to get food deliveries into the city hence I assume why Zelensky is seeing that he may not be able to go all the way and kick Russian troops out of Ukraine.


Russia has 12,000 troops east of Kyiv who are now. in real danger of being encircled by Ukrainian forces.


The re-supplying of those Russian troops had been coming from the southern edge of Sumy.


Guess what ?


Ukrainian troops have now taken the southern edge of Sumy which means no more supplies for those 12,000 Russian troops east of Kyiv...they're now in serious trouble.


There's the reason why the Kremlin is talking about drastically reducing Russian military activity around Kyiv and Chernihiv...they're attempting to retreat and re-group.


Hopefully the Ukrainian forces will now manage to surround them and bombard them without mercy,just as those same Russian terrorists have been bombarding civilians in Kyiv , and finish off those 12.000 Russian troops .handing Putin a disastrous defeat.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 30, 2022, 02:30:15 AM
What I don't understand in all of this is why Russia is only using a fraction of its army. Apparently it's Army is HUGE:

http://images.app.goo.gl/Hq1PU5CQ9EoFDJys7 (http://images.app.goo.gl/Hq1PU5CQ9EoFDJys7)

So why don't they take a huge chunk of their army and invade on all fronts?

I half expected them to come down through Belarus towards Lviv and cut of the border, cut of the roads as Boe states to stop the supply of weapons into Ukraine and so give themselves an easier time. I thought they would bring in masses of tanks to overpower Ukrainian cities by sheer number.

I understand they need to protect their other borders but I doubt anyone is going to attack Russia as they have Nukes. So if it were me I would take a large chunk of forces and attack. Only thing I can think of is the economic cost of doing so but I would be surprised if they can't do it for a short while. Other than that would be someone taking control of a large army in one place and initiating a coup that of course could be a possibility.

Other than that I cannot think of a reason why a nation with a large army would attack and go about this almost like they had a small army and had nothing more. Not sure if the above reasons sound out but it just seems a strange thing to do.

Apparently today Mariupol got shelled from the sea, apparently nothing really left of it. I read that it was quite an attractive city before the war, the article said it was middle class, never been there myself so never saw how it was apart from the ariel photos and photos of it shelled out. The Mayor of Mariupol has apparently now fled, managed to get out somehow, his 'excuse' is that he can organise the humanitarian corridors better from outside Mariupol as no communication connection their now. Funny the excuses that such dignitaries come up with to excuse themselves from such situations. I wonder if Mariupol has much left in it before a surrender or they are overrun, food must have run out some time ago now and the soldiers must be exhausted possibly running out of ammo also. Seems Russian units, Chechens have been storming the city fighting street to street gun battles to try and take the place.


Apparently ( this is from a very good source ),Russia has 75%   of it's Battalion Active Groups now in Ukraine...these are elite combat-ready troops.


Russia does have more troops of course.but they're not combat ready and wouldn't survive a week in Ukraine.


Each Battalion has 800 troops...and there are 125 Battalions in Ukraine


The problem for Russia is that the average loss for each Battalion now stands at around 30%,which means many of the Battalions are in disarray with their chains of command smashed.


This is why the Ukrainian forces are increasingly confident they will win the war.


They're asking for more support from the West..not to win the war..but to win the war faster,so they incur less casualties among their military and civilians.


The USA is now training Ukrainian military in Poland on the use of the more advanced weapons being sent.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 30, 2022, 03:32:51 AM
Ukrainian forces have now attacked Belgorod in Russia.as per TASS


A Russian forward operation base SW of Belgorod was hit by Ukrainian Artillery fire, and a weapons storage facility was destroyed with multiple huge explosions just outside Belgorod.with an SRBM strike...although TASS claims that part was an accident.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on March 30, 2022, 05:03:33 AM

http://twitter.com/niktwick/status/1508490884794441728

The same has happened in Luhansk according to my wife's family. Most of the men 18 - 60 were rounded up and shipped out.
My wife's daughter personally knows two young men that have been killed already.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 30, 2022, 07:43:27 AM
Remember the “giant convoy” of Russian trucks that were headed for Kyiv?
It failed because of a series of night ambushes carried out by a team of 30 Ukrainian special forces and drone operators on quad bikes!

The drone operators were drawn from an air reconnaissance unit, Aerorozvidka, which began eight years ago as a group of volunteer IT specialists and hobbyists

Here’s their web site:

http://aerorozvidka.xyz/

The “Guardian” did a piece on them
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv

Although, I prefer “The Sun” especially “back in the day” when they had the Page 3 girls!
Sweet!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 30, 2022, 08:15:35 AM
What if Putin Didn’t Miscalculate?
Quote from Article
"Suppose for a moment that Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine:
that, from the beginning, his real targets were the energy riches of Ukraine’s
east, which contain Europe’s second-largest known reserves of natural gas
(after Norway’s).

Combine that with Russia’s previous territorial seizures in Crimea (which
has huge offshore energy fields) and the eastern provinces of Luhansk and
Donetsk (which contain part of an enormous shale-gas field), as well as
Putin’s bid to control most or all of Ukraine’s coastline, and the shape of
Putin’s ambitions become clear. He’s less interested in reuniting the
Russian-speaking world than he is in securing Russia’s energy dominance.

“Under the guise of an invasion, Putin is executing an enormous heist,”
said Canadian energy expert David Knight Legg. As for what’s left of a
mostly landlocked Ukraine, it will likely become a welfare case for the West,
which will help pick up the tab for resettling Ukraine’s refugees to new
homes outside of Russian control."

read the entire article here
http://dnyuz.com/2022/03/29/what-if-putin-didnt-miscalculate/

Remember when Putin attacked Georgia he gained nearly 1/2 of the Black Sea
Coastline in the aftermath.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 30, 2022, 08:54:49 AM
What if Putin Didn’t Miscalculate?
Quote from Article
"Suppose for a moment that Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine:
that, from the beginning, his real targets were the energy riches of Ukraine’s
east, which contain Europe’s second-largest known reserves of natural gas
(after Norway’s).

Combine that with Russia’s previous territorial seizures in Crimea (which
has huge offshore energy fields) and the eastern provinces of Luhansk and
Donetsk (which contain part of an enormous shale-gas field), as well as
Putin’s bid to control most or all of Ukraine’s coastline, and the shape of
Putin’s ambitions become clear. He’s less interested in reuniting the
Russian-speaking world than he is in securing Russia’s energy dominance.

“Under the guise of an invasion, Putin is executing an enormous heist,”
said Canadian energy expert David Knight Legg. As for what’s left of a
mostly landlocked Ukraine, it will likely become a welfare case for the West,
which will help pick up the tab for resettling Ukraine’s refugees to new
homes outside of Russian control."

read the entire article here
http://dnyuz.com/2022/03/29/what-if-putin-didnt-miscalculate/

Remember when Putin attacked Georgia he gained nearly 1/2 of the Black Sea
Coastline in the aftermath.
....bottom line, the cost (From russian perspective) may be worth it, if Russia ends up with territory and resources like the article speaks of.  Sanctions and pariah state (From western states) will be harmful but not fatal.  Meanwhile eastern connections and black market would suffice I suppose. 

Fathertime! 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 30, 2022, 09:50:28 AM
Nope!  Pootin's strategic calculations aren't based on this...
Ukrainian gas fields are a mouse fart in comparison to what he already has in the far east and in the North!
Not worth it just to increase his gas reserves by another 1%

No…

what he wants is the land and the people

look at this map…
Russia has to defend a huge western border, and the demographics can’t support it
you can’t defend this border in the West, AND the one in the East with the forces he has today
and the demographics will get worse

if he “takes” Ukraine and Belarus, it GREATLY shrinks his Western border which will require less military resources (see pic)

and taking fellow slavs will help reduce his demographic problem

also, it will mean Western companies won’t be able to build LNG plants on Ukraine’s coast
and he can probably create conditions that will make it difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to host LNG plants without paying an insurance penalty which’ll raise their price, reduce competitiveness, etc

and, Pootin has a messianic vision of himself, as the restorer of Russian greatness, which requires unification of the slavs

secondarily, “Friends of Pootin” will get the spoils, this keeps their loyalty

the main reason that Ukrainian land is SO IMPORTANT, is FOOD!
Pootin knows that in the not too distant future, food will be a MUCH more important commodity than oil or gas

in general, Ukraine integrated with Russia is much more economically efficient, than being separated,
Ukraine's industrial economy didn’t do well because they were too dependent on producing things for Russia, instead of being independent, due to incompetent, corrupt management

IMHO, it's ALWAYS a mistake to use the military for this purpose
he was doing GREAT with the "hybrid warfare" approach against the West and Ukraine
after Maidan, he shoulda intensified this and got back on track by subverting Ukraine from within
this is how Russia got Ukraine in the first place...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 30, 2022, 02:44:57 PM
Boris Johnson has today said that the economic sanctions against Russia will not be lifted until every last Russian soldier has left Ukraine...including Crimea.


He also said that Ukraine and other eastern European countries outside NATO,will now be armed to the teeth by the west..so much so that they will  become  Porcupines to Russia.


Could it be that Putin has made such a howler that, in attempting a further land grab in Ukraine, he actually loses the land he'd already stolen ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 30, 2022, 05:11:32 PM
In Ukraine’s shoes, assuming the locals want to be part of Russia, I would let Crimea and the Donbas region now in Russian control go. I would demand a referendum, overseen by independent observers. If a free election were held, I suspect both areas would vote to join Russia. If so there’s no net gain to Ukraine in keeping them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 30, 2022, 06:09:54 PM
Pootin invaded Ukraine for the same reasons as Hitler
Pootin will withdraw ONLY if he is pushed back, same as Hitler…

otherwise his strategy will be to “up the ante”
until Ukraine and NATO fold, because the bet he placed
is TOO high for them to cover….

he will reposition his weapons from attacking Kyiv to bombing the kakashka out of the 5 main roads from Western Ukraine and the main rail line
to reduce the flow of western weapons eastward and south
and also cut off Ukraine from the chorny moira
to trigger holodomor dva

I have my camera all setup on a tripod by the backdoor of the porch
so that when the Russian atomic demo lights up the night sky
I get a good picture

then he’ll replace the opytnyy soldiers in Ukraine
with novichok ones
and tell NATO, "bring it suki"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: fathertime on March 30, 2022, 06:43:14 PM
What I see currently is Ukraine cities being demolished, one by one. 
I see the price of gas up through the roof.
I see the Russian ruble is completely recovered.
I see many of the non-western powers trading in their own currencies with Russia. China restated their relationship has no limits again.   
The dollar is being discarded. 
This is a disaster on many levels. 
If we can call any nation winners it is China, India, African nations perhaps.   Certain Asian nations.   

It is hard to say if Russian demands have changed at this point. Now that they seemingly have suffered loses, and are a pariah state, they may decide to take everything regardless of what the cost is.  If Zelensky is still actually calling the shots, I'd be curious how he is weighing the current circumstances. 

Fathertime!   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 31, 2022, 04:23:29 AM
Putin has signed a decree to draft 134,000 Russians into the military.


I'm guessing the official Kremlin figure of 1,351 Russian military killed in Ukraine is a bit on the low side. :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 31, 2022, 05:52:05 AM
....bottom line, the cost (From russian perspective) may be worth it, if Russia ends up with territory and resources like the article speaks of.  Sanctions and pariah state (From western states) will be harmful but not fatal.  Meanwhile eastern connections and black market would suffice I suppose. 

Fathertime!

The sanctions on Russia were mostly a joke. A few Oligarchs lost their yachts
and little else. The Russian bank increased interest rates to 20% and the Ruble
has mostly stabilized

The only people who thought that the Biden sanctions would be harmful to
Russia were the people at CNN and other left wing activists organizations.

Clearly the sanctions are more harmful to American citizens, especially
the poor. Luckily they have Dementia boy looking out for them. 

(http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/graphs/USD-RUB-60-day-exchange-rate-history-graph-large.png)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 31, 2022, 06:23:42 AM
2tall,

The exchange rate is only one of many factors.  Sanctions can take months to be felt and are tough to get pulled back, giving them longer-term effects.

In large, exchange rates, like the stock market reflects investor sentiment.  The difference with currencies is that governments can take actions to prop up their currencies, like raising interest rates.  Inflation also raises internal demand.

EU is getting hit pretty hard as well, but gas prices have fallen a good bit here. The government reduced gas taxes. It's not just your 'Dementia boy' alone that is imposing sanctions so your blame is misplaced.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 31, 2022, 06:53:34 AM
Beel,
here’s how sanctions work:

Russian: Can I haz cheeseburger now?
Amerika: NYET!!!
Russian: (with sarcasm)Spossiba Putin

sanctions are the anvil
Amerikan and Euro weapons are the big hammer
Ukraine is the blacksmith
Russia is the horseshoe on the anvil
all ist klar, herr kommisar?


All my Russian vendors on ebay are gone now – THANKS BIDEN!!!

PS: guy I really feel sorry for is one of the Russian military attaches in the Mexican embassy - check out the name - second from the bottom LOL!!!


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 31, 2022, 07:02:26 AM

all ist klar, herr kommisar?


Alles klar Herr Kommissar?

 ;)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 31, 2022, 07:05:35 AM
I haz accent
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2022, 07:46:16 AM
The sanctions on Russia were mostly a joke. A few Oligarchs lost their yachts and little else. The Russian bank increased interest rates to 20% and the Ruble has mostly stabilized

The only people who thought that the Biden sanctions would be harmful to Russia were the people at CNN and other left wing activists organizations.

Clearly the sanctions are more harmful to American citizens, especially the poor. Luckily they have Dementia boy looking out for them. 

Inflation is over 15% in Russia. 

The ruble has stabilized because it isn't traded, and the Central Bank has poured a lot of foreign reserves into it.

During the Soviet period, the ruble was "more valuable" than the USD, because the central government set its rate.  That's sort of the same thing right now.  Here's a good article from the WSJ.

Quote
The ruble is in a central-bank-induced coma.

While Russia’s currency can still see sharp swings in a day, it has trimmed its steep losses and begun to stabilize. It is now trading at around 99 rubles to the dollar, about 17% weaker than it was before Russian troops invaded Ukraine (http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-war-invasion-whats-happening-11646157211?mod=article_inline) on Feb. 24 but stronger than its record low of 151 on March 7, according to FactSet.

Rising currency prices often reflect a general strengthening of a country’s economic outlook. Not so in Russia. Rather, central bank moves to limit ruble selling and force ruble buying have effectively manufactured demand for the currency.

Russia capped the amount of dollars that residents can withdraw from foreign-currency bank accounts and barred banks from selling foreign currencies (http://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-09/card/moscow-limits-foreign-currency-trading-to-shore-up-struggling-ruble-dgTDTQdEOkO3wgoFyC3I?mod=article_inline) to customers for the next six months. Russian brokerages also aren’t allowed to let foreign clients sell securities. These measures have made it more difficult to sell the ruble, thereby limiting its losses.

Western sanctions against Russia left carve-outs for exporters of  energy upon which Europe is particularly dependent, which kept dollars and euros flowing into the country. Russia ordered those exporters to sell 80% of their foreign-currency revenues and buy rubles, helping the currency appreciate.

“It is fair to say that the ruble is not a market price,” said Robin Brooks, chief economist at the Institute of International Finance. “If there were a free flow in both directions, we would see a far weaker ruble.”

Russian President Vladimir Putin (http://www.wsj.com/topics/person/vladimir-putin) recently said he wants European nations to begin buying Russian gas with rubles (http://www.wsj.com/articles/vladimir-putin-wants-europe-to-pay-for-gas-in-rubles-11648047487?mod=article_inline) rather than dollars and euros. That would reverse the current flow of money, making sanctioning nations support Russia’s currency and ensuring that all funds from energy sales support its value, said Christian Kopf, head of fixed income at asset manager Union Investment. Such a move is unlikely, but it signals Russia’s desire to boost demand for the ruble.

Cold War 2.0? The Global Economic Impact of Sanctions Against Russia

(http://images.wsj.net/im-509307?width=540)

Currencies often move with the ups and downs of a country’s economy. Investors want to put money into economies they think will thrive, buying stocks and bonds denominated in that country’s tender.

It is harder to take such insights from the ruble. Hundreds of companies have announced a withdrawal from Russia, meaning imports are likely to contract. At the same time, Russia is continuing to sell its oil, meaning exports and money gained from those will more than make up for the money necessary for imports. Oil prices above $100 a barrel are also adding a boost to revenue, even as Moscow’s inventories trade at a discount (http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-scrambles-to-maintain-oil-sales-life-blood-of-economy-11646156655?mod=article_inline). The imbalance could strengthen the ruble, though it doesn’t make Russia’s economy any stronger.

“There’s so much stuff you’re not allowed to buy or sell,” said George Pearkes, a macro strategist at Bespoke Investment Group. “The ruble could strengthen a lot from here, and it wouldn’t mean anything.”

After the war broke out, the ruble market split to have one value within Russia and another on international markets. In onshore trading, Russia’s currency was valued at  94 rubles to the dollar on Monday while it traded at 98 in international markets. That gap has narrowed from early March.
Russian banks offered slightly fewer rubles for customers’ dollars than the Moscow Exchange on Monday. Sberbank PJSC offered about 89 rubles for a dollar while the Russian website of Austria’s Raiffeisen Bank (http://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/RAIFY) quoted 86.

Many Western banks are no longer providing electronic quotes to buy and sell the ruble. Clients instead must call up the bank and ask if it is willing to process a trade and at what rate. Banks, worried about running afoul of Western sanctions, are having to clear every ruble transaction with their legal and compliance departments, traders say.

European countries have announced plans to shift away from Russian energy in the coming years, which also will weaken the ruble over the long term.

“We’re looking at a Russian ruble that is longer-term significantly weakened,” said Jane Foley, head of foreign-exchange strategy at Rabobank.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-russias-central-bank-engineered-the-rubles-rebound-11648458200 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-russias-central-bank-engineered-the-rubles-rebound-11648458200)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on March 31, 2022, 08:28:55 AM

The ruble has stabilized because it isn't traded, and the Central Bank has poured a lot of foreign reserves into it.

Here's a good article from the WSJ.

- - - - - - - - - - -  -

Boe thanks for posting this excellent article.

I couldn't have written a better explanation myself. :-)


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on March 31, 2022, 09:39:08 AM
Putin has signed a decree to draft 134,000 Russians into the military.


I'm guessing the official Kremlin figure of 1,351 Russian military killed in Ukraine is a bit on the low side. :rolleyes:

This is quite normal though, Russia has two conscript periods, one is april 1 and one in the winter, both have a number around 100 000 each period.

Written in the constitution is that a conscript can not be sent to the front  until 4 months of training  :rolleyes: unless country is under Martial Law

4 months = cannonfodder

I can highly recommend 'Walter Report' on Twitter (that's a space - aka audio)
One of these two almost always host them (24/7)
http://twitter.com/walterlekh
 (http://twitter.com/walterlekh)
http://twitter.com/ferlain (http://twitter.com/ferlain)
Can be listened to both with app or on computer, on the twitter app you can join in and ask questions.

A lot of eyewitness reports, Ukrainians living in different parts join in, sometimes a soldier or two with first hand reports from the front, and of course a lot of both European and American ex. soldiers or other very knowledgeable people in a lot of areas.   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 31, 2022, 12:08:16 PM
Interest rates at 20 percent and inflation at around 15 percent or more will combined have a very damaging effect on the Russian economy. Money will be getting worth a lot less and if Russians have loans on variable rate it will make them very expensive not least to say about the ability to borrow. In the shops in Russia there are many empty shelves, food queues, etc. If all of that results in widespread discontent & civil disorder in Russia, Pootin could find him having his hands full there. Combine that with the best of their army being busted up and performing poorly and it could all come back to haunt Pootin.

I think sanctions and supplying Ukraine with defensive anti tank weapons is proving to be a winning strategy. Boris has stated that sanctions should be ramped up to bust up the Russian economy even harder. That and we are sending more weapons to Ukraine to further the winning strategy there. I think there is a possibility if we can bust up the Russian economy and army enough the whole of the Russian Federation may de-federate and a second break up of Russian territory occur. All of those Oligarchs in Russia probably eager to lead their own country and get out from under the thumb of Pootin.

Winter is coming to an end here in the west, in addition to talking usage of Gas In think if we temporarily banned the use of Gas to residential property and instead used microwaves for a short period we could really cut our reliance on Gas over the Spring & Summer throughout Europe. That could really make a dent in the Russian economy along with other further sanctions. I think a total ban on Russian companies and products being sold in the West would really do the trick, in a few weeks we could collapse in Russia and remove their overly aggressive bullying nature for good :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on March 31, 2022, 12:21:37 PM
In Ukraine’s shoes, assuming the locals want to be part of Russia, I would let Crimea and the Donbas region now in Russian control go. I would demand a referendum, overseen by independent observers. If a free election were held, I suspect both areas would vote to join Russia. If so there’s no net gain to Ukraine in keeping them.
+1
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2022, 05:04:09 PM
Ukrainian woman whose village was stormed by Russian troops says they wore her clothes, stole money, and drunkenly shot off her husband's leg
Quote
A Ukrainian woman whose village was stormed by Russian troops over the weekend told CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/03/26/ukraine-russia-war-hospital-victims-kiley-nr-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/russia-ukraine-military-conflict/) they wore her clothes, stole money, and drunkenly shot her husband in the leg.
The woman told CNN that the Russian troops were acting out of control as they ransacked her home in a village close to Brovary, an eastern suburb of Kyiv.
"They wore my woman's hat, my coat, my boots. They wore our clothes. They took our bedding ... I don't know what they've done with it," she told CNN in an emotional interview. "They slept. They ate. They wandered about. They stole our money."
She also told CNN one of the Russians was drunk and used a stolen shotgun to blow her husband's leg off. She added that two of the troops later admitted that they didn't support Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
She said she attended to her husband in the basement of their home for two days before bringing him to the main hospital in Brovary, where CNN interviewed her.
Her husband was lying in a hospital bed next to her with his leg bandaged as she was being interviewed.
http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-woman-whose-village-stormed-101536095.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 12:55:05 AM
Ukrainian woman whose village was stormed by Russian troops says they wore her clothes, stole money, and drunkenly shot off her husband's leghttp://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-woman-whose-village-stormed-101536095.html (http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-woman-whose-village-stormed-101536095.html)
Rapes have started also.
Killing civilians on spot also, probably at least hundreds.
They seem to deport also a lot of people.
Intimidation of individuals has started in the territories they control.
That's just the beginning and we aim to a dirty war as it happened in Tchetchenia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2022, 05:34:54 AM
Oil depot in Belgorod,Russia now hit by an attack by seemingly two Ukrainian Helicopters.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 01, 2022, 06:56:22 AM
Inflation is over 15% in Russia. 

Of course the central bank took huge actions to get it under
control. That's what central banks do.

What do you think the true inflation rate is in the USA? The US
is totally cooking the books to report it as 7.9% I would be
surprised if the real US inflation rate was less than 15%.

In my anecdotal situation, I can easily see what is happening to
prices of gas, food, cars and construction materials.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 01, 2022, 07:01:35 AM
The ruble has stabilized because it isn't traded

http://www.forex.com/en-us/forex-trading/usd-rub/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 01, 2022, 07:03:32 AM
Oil depot in Belgorod,Russia now hit by an attack by seemingly two Ukrainian Helicopters.

I thought that your statement warranted an article with a video. The Belgorod
fuel depot is approximately 20 kilometers (12 miles) from the Ukrainian border.

WATCH: Missiles strike oil depot in Belgorod, Russia
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60953243


Moscow says Ukraine hit a fuel depot inside Russia
http://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-strikes-fuel-depot-russias-belgorod-regional-official-says-2022-04-01/

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2022, 07:52:56 AM
Chernobyl has now been abandoned by Russian troops..with the last of them leaving this morning.


There are reports that the Russian troops started becoming ill with Radiation poisoning.


What this has done is leave 20,000 Russian troops around Kyiv totally isolated and surrounded by Ukrainian troops.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 01, 2022, 08:11:26 AM
in Russia, "News" reports YOU!!! so here is Roskomnadzor free news showing status of "special military operation"
is now time for Russ-see-ya to switch to plan "Beh", the one from the GazProm focus group....
win, by whatever means necessary

Special Military Operations Gaz Table Edin

    Hydrogen cyanide – Sarin is 81 times more lethal
    Phosgene– Sarin is 43 times more lethal
    Sulfur mustard – Sarin is 28 times more lethal
    Chlorine– Sarin is 543 times more lethal
   
     VX is 6.5  times more lethal than sarin
     Novichok is 65 times more lethal than sarin

Russian Disinformatze is always simple....
accuse "Enemy" of doing what you're going to do first
then DO IT!!

example:
when you want to "steal the vote", you create organization called "Stop The Steal"
see how easy?

so when you hear of Russian accusations against Ukraine
thern you'll know
that the excrement is about to hit the "reciprocating cooling device"
and ya'll better not be standing in front of it
slovo!


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 08:55:49 AM
Chernobyl has now been abandoned by Russian troops..with the last of them leaving this morning.


There are reports that the Russian troops started becoming ill with Radiation poisoning.


What this has done is leave 20,000 Russian troops around Kyiv totally isolated and surrounded by Ukrainian troops.
I cannot imagine, letting XXXX soldiers for weeks in such region  :cluebat:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 01, 2022, 09:04:54 AM
I don't understand how Russia is able to destroy Mariupol.

What are they using ?

Why Ukraine can't attack and destroy whatever it is Russia is using?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 01, 2022, 09:15:40 AM
"I cannot imagine, letting XXXX soldiers for weeks in such region"

ain’t no liberte, egalite, fraternite in Russia, mon amie
you need to take a walk on the dark side to appreciate Russia
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 09:24:39 AM
Chernobyl has now been abandoned by Russian troops..with the last of them leaving this morning.


There are reports that the Russian troops started becoming ill with Radiation poisoning.


What this has done is leave 20,000 Russian troops around Kyiv totally isolated and surrounded by Ukrainian troops.
If Ukraine could surround RF forces in N of Kiev and in NE (Sumy) they could potentially in the next 10 days destroy 2 RF divisions.
This means more than 20000 soldiers out of action and 250 main battles (part of them will be reused by Ukraine).
In the WW2 on the Barbarossa front the engaging and destroying strategy has always been a winner, better than seizing and holding.
On the long term, you cannot easily replace regular and elite troops, and your heavy equipment faster than your losses with the first strategy.
And I don't believe that the RF is producing 20 main tanks per day and the necessary skilled tanks crews.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 09:27:39 AM
"I cannot imagine, letting XXXX soldiers for weeks in such region"

ain’t no liberte, egalite, fraternite in Russia, mon amie
you need to take a walk on the dark side to appreciate Russia
Krim, my friend, I have been living 12 years in a dictature, fortunately, I was protected with my French passport, so I DO know very well what happens in this type of regime when they corner full throttle on the dark side.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 01, 2022, 09:28:57 AM
If Ukraine could surround RF forces in N of Kiev and in NE (Sumy) they could potentially in the next 10 days destroy 2 RF divisions.
This means more than 20000 soldiers out of action and 250 main battles (part of them will be reused by Ukraine).
In the WW2 on the Barbarossa front the engaging and destroying strategy has always been a winner, better than seizing and holding.
On the long term, you cannot easily replace regular and elite troops, and your heavy equipment faster than your losses with the first strategy.
And I don't believe that the RF is producing 20 main tanks per day and the necessary skilled tanks crews.

I hope Ukrainian military is thinking of this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 01, 2022, 09:33:52 AM
Krim, my friend, I have been living 12 years in a dictature, fortunately, I was protected with my French passport, so I DO know very well what happens in this type of regime when they corner full throttle on the dark side.

Hi Pat.  'have been living' is current tense which I don't think you meant to infer.

Do you mean to say 'I previously lived 12 years in a dictatorship.'
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2022, 09:48:24 AM
I don't understand how Russia is able to destroy Mariupol.

What are they using ?

Why Ukraine can't attack and destroy whatever it is Russia is using?

Artillery, both conventional and rocket based

When we asked a soldier down there that same question he answered, "we do destroy them as much as we can, Russia just have a shitload of them and brings in more all the time."

The recent eyewitnesses that gotten out from the city talks about planes dropping bombs every 2-3 minutes in the last weeks since they got caught of from the rest of Ukraine and no air-defense could get to them anymore

so yeah, that's how they do it.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 09:56:11 AM
Hi Pat.  'have been living' is current tense which I don't think you meant to infer.

Do you mean to say 'I previously lived 12 years in a dictatorship.'
Correct, that's what I mean "'I previously lived 12 years in a dictatorship.'
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 09:58:08 AM
This is the exploit that Ukrainian have achieved:  :P Kroutoï !!!!
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/45020/ukrainian-mi-24-attack-helicopters-fly-daring-cross-border-strike-on-russia-reports (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/45020/ukrainian-mi-24-attack-helicopters-fly-daring-cross-border-strike-on-russia-reports)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 10:04:07 AM
Read carefully:"Belgorod sits roughly just 18 miles north of the border with Ukraine, but there are a huge amount of Russian forces arrayed between there and Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, which has been under assault from Russian forces since the war began. The possible fact that lowly Mi-24s were able to infiltrate Russia in such a heavily militarized area to make such a brazen attack would be a damning indictment of Russia's air defense capabilities. That area would be especially heavily populated by layers of air defense systems, including many short-range units that are specifically designed to target and engage low-flying helicopters in any conditions." 
That's truly heroic. Unbelievable.
 
So I do believe at this moment the Russian air commander is having a bad time and preparing his chimodan to join few Ukrainians who are sent to the far East of Russia for political refurbishing.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 01, 2022, 10:20:35 AM
This is the exploit that Ukrainian have achieved:  :P Kroutoï !!!!
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/45020/ukrainian-mi-24-attack-helicopters-fly-daring-cross-border-strike-on-russia-reports (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/45020/ukrainian-mi-24-attack-helicopters-fly-daring-cross-border-strike-on-russia-reports)

Wife told me of this incident this morning.

She said her Ukrainian sources stated that some of the external features of the helicopters indicated they were Russian, not Ukrainian.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2022, 10:38:27 AM
Wife told me of this incident this morning.

She said her Ukrainian sources stated that some of the external features of the helicopters indicated they were Russian, not Ukrainian.

It is very discussed on twitter on who really did this, everyone seems to have their mind made up..

A good joke came out of it
"Jens Stoltenberg called Orc president Putin and asked him if he wanted Nato to enforce a nofly zone over the Ukraine-Russian border to prevent such heinous attacks"

because IF it is truly Ukraine who did this, this is a propaganda win, pants down mr Poootin
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 11:34:38 AM
Tell me the benefits for the RF to send two helicopters striking their home depots in Belgorod?I would like to know.
Initially, it was believed that was a Ukrainian missile.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2022, 11:43:25 AM
Tell me the benefits for the RF to send two helicopters striking their home depots in Belgorod?I would like to know.
Initially, it was believed that was a Ukrainian missile.

Ukraine's top security official says Ukraine was NOT behind helicopter air strike on the oil depot in Belgorod, Russia - Reuters
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 01, 2022, 12:26:34 PM
putting on a "bear costume" is actually a good way to go bear hunting without getting mauled first...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2022, 12:28:55 PM
Tell me the benefits for the RF to send two helicopters striking their home depots in Belgorod?I would like to know.
Initially, it was believed that was a Ukrainian missile.

It would be a false flag operation so Russia can justify an escalation of the war.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on April 01, 2022, 12:46:26 PM
It would be a false flag operation so Russia can justify an escalation of the war.

One wonders how much more they (Russia) can escalate. Indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations, raiding humanitarian goods destined for children and elderly, leveling an entire city beyond any military strategic or tactical purpose.

Escalation would seem to be chemical warfare or nuclear attack. How else can Russia escalate matters from this point?

Further, Ukraine is retaliating. They did not initiate. If Ukraine has managed to find a way to take the fight to Russian soil, Russia has only itself to blame for creating the war in the first place.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2022, 12:49:42 PM
I can't understand the rationale behind Russian Helicopters striking the fuel depot in Russia.


It wouldn't make sense as a false flag operation..nobody was killed and Ukraine would be perfectly entitled to make the strike so close to their border to prevent Russian Military re-fuelling there.


If it was done to prevent an unlikely peace deal then Russia had no intention of having a peace deal anyway and could just say so.


Is it possible they were captured Helicopters,used by Ukrainians,who then said "not us guv,you can see they're not our Helicopters * ?


Is it possible, if they were Russian pilots, that they thought they were hitting a target in Ukraine.being close to the border ?


Are there any other countries that use those particular Helicopters in the area who thought they'd give Ukraine a hand ?


Or is it Russia attempted a false flag operation ,using the Helicopters under cover of the night,not thinking that someone would get good enough film to show that they're Russian not Ukrainian Helicopters ?


All a bit embarrassing for the Kremlin if caught out trying a false flag attempt on their own city if it's the latter.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2022, 01:20:35 PM
Ukraine's top security official says Ukraine was NOT behind helicopter air strike on the oil depot in Belgorod, Russia - Reuters


I'm watching CNN now and Ukraine has neither confirmed or denied the strike.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2022, 01:35:58 PM

I'm watching CNN now and Ukraine has neither confirmed or denied the strike.

Quote
"For some reason they say that we did it, but according to our information this does not correspond to reality," said Security Council Secretary Oleksiy Danilov.

Earlier, defence ministry spokesman Oleksandr Motuzyanyk said he would neither confirm nor deny a Ukrainian role.

"Ukraine is currently conducting a defensive operation against Russian aggression on the territory of Ukraine, and this does not mean that Ukraine is responsible for every catastrophe on Russia's territory," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-strikes-fuel-depot-russias-belgorod-regional-official-says-2022-04-01/ (http://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-strikes-fuel-depot-russias-belgorod-regional-official-says-2022-04-01/)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2022, 03:24:34 PM
One wonders how much more they (Russia) can escalate. Indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations, raiding humanitarian goods destined for children and elderly, leveling an entire city beyond any military strategic or tactical purpose.

Escalation would seem to be chemical warfare or nuclear attack. How else can Russia escalate matters from this point?

Further, Ukraine is retaliating. They did not initiate. If Ukraine has managed to find a way to take the fight to Russian soil, Russia has only itself to blame for creating the war in the first place.


They could be turning Kyiv into Grozny.  I don't know if they'd be as successful, but they could be doing more damage.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 01, 2022, 03:54:34 PM
I don't understand how Russia is able to destroy Mariupol.

What are they using ?

Why Ukraine can't attack and destroy whatever it is Russia is using?
?
Missiles,Naval, air, and land bombardement.

They were flying 200 or so sorties every 24 hours


Meanwhile we have subs that can hit many targets in Ukraine  from.the north sea or med,so.i'd assume russia does as well(but wouldnt as certainly can much more easily hit Mariupol from thier border, and fly missions easily from.their  air bases.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 01, 2022, 03:59:29 PM
?
Missiles,Naval, air, and land bombardement.

They were flying 200 or so sorties every 24 hours


Meanwhile we have subs that can hit many targets in Ukraine  from.the north sea or med,so.i'd assume russia does as well(but wouldnt as certainly can much more easily hit Mariupol from thier border, and fly missions easily from.their  air bases.

But I thought Ukraine has some S-300s to take down high flying planes and a lot of Stingers for low flying ones.

And what about the weapons that shoot down missiles in flight ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 01, 2022, 04:41:21 PM
But I thought Ukraine has some S-300s to take down high flying planes and a lot of Stingers for low flying ones.

And what about the weapons that shoot down missiles in flight ?
They don't have Stingers in Mariupol or they already had shot it.
S300 is probably now not covering Mariupol or too risky to approach the SAM systems in a region where the RF is at the offensive.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2022, 11:49:10 PM
This is a site of soldiers either killed or captured in Ukraine.

Not for the squeamish or weak of heart.

http://russoldat.info/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2022, 02:10:17 AM
http://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-strikes-fuel-depot-russias-belgorod-regional-official-says-2022-04-01/ (http://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-strikes-fuel-depot-russias-belgorod-regional-official-says-2022-04-01/)


President Zelensky, when asked about the strike last night, said that he doesn't comment on military and strategic matters,and then proceeded to explain why the strike happened,saying that Russia was using the site for missile strikes on Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2022, 02:17:13 AM
This is a site of soldiers either killed or captured in Ukraine.

Not for the squeamish or weak of heart.

http://russoldat.info/ (http://russoldat.info/)


Essential viewing for all the families of the Russian terrorists/scum in Ukraine.


Nice gesture from Ukraine to provide this service for them.


Maybe some of them will reciprocate by getting in touch with the site and giving names for some of the unidentified Russian terrorist/scum bodies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2022, 02:18:13 AM
Ukrainian woman whose village was stormed by Russian troops says they wore her clothes, stole money, and drunkenly shot off her husband's leghttp://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-woman-whose-village-stormed-101536095.html

My concern grows for what may have become of Beefarmer's care packages in all of this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2022, 02:59:46 AM
Good news  ;D


The British Star Streak SAM system claimed it's first victim in Ukraine.


It shot down a Russian Helicopter outside Luhansk.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on April 02, 2022, 03:09:34 AM

Essential viewing for all the families of the Russian terrorists/scum in Ukraine.


Looked at some of the passports - just kids, cannon fodder with a gun at their back.  Sad regardless of passport.

Personally, I hold Putin accountable and hope the RU people do the same.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2022, 03:17:23 AM
Don't be too sad...now those "kids" can't commit anymore atrocities.


Reports are starting to come through of Russian/scum "kids" atrocities against civilians in Bucha,including many executions.


Apparently the liberating Ukrainian troops are horrified at what they're discovering.

Bodies lying everywhere on the streets,some with tied arms.


I've seen film of it,but i'm not posting it here..it's appalling in it's sheer horror.


It wasn't Putin who executed these people..it was Russian "kids".

It wasn't Putin who gang-raped a 15 year old girl in Irpin while her mother lay dying in the same room..it was Russian "kids".

It wasn't Putin who shelled Mariupol, Kharkiv and Chernihiv residential areas.killing hundred/thousands of civilians...it was Russian "kids".


Putin is scum yes...but so is his military,and they've always been the same..from Germany to Georgia to Syria and now Ukraine.


They're a cruel and barbaric people and war always brings out their real evil nature.

















Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 02, 2022, 10:48:57 AM
This 4 second clip shows UK Starstreak missile 'shooting down Russian helicopter in its first use in Ukraine'

The Starstreak system is a laser-guided missile that travels at more than three times the speed of sound to take down low-flying enemy jets and attack helicopters.

Starstreak, a high-velocity projectile that destroys targets with three kinetic darts, was filmed cutting the aircraft in two over the Luhansk region in the east of the country.

The clip shows a Russian Mi-28N helicopter being cut in two and shot out of the sky in the Luhansk region as it is struck by the portable missile.

http://videos.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2022/04/01/1900382562027521570/636x382_MP4_1900382562027521570.mp4

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 02, 2022, 11:26:17 AM
A nice write-up on StarStreak

http://eurasiantimes.com/from-britain-with-love-uks-new-game-changing-missiles-to-ukraine-has-potential-to-turn-tables-on-belligerent-russia/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2022, 02:29:05 PM
A nice write-up on StarStreak

http://eurasiantimes.com/from-britain-with-love-uks-new-game-changing-missiles-to-ukraine-has-potential-to-turn-tables-on-belligerent-russia/ (http://eurasiantimes.com/from-britain-with-love-uks-new-game-changing-missiles-to-ukraine-has-potential-to-turn-tables-on-belligerent-russia/)


I've seen the news outlets speaking to some Ukrainian troops about the anti-Tank missiles they're using and they've all said the NLAW the UK gave them are the best, and they've all made a point of thanking Britain for them. :)


Just need something to hit those Russian ships parked in the Black Sea firing Ballistic Missiles,which would also hit the Russian MIG 31's firing missiles into Ukraine from Russia,


Let's see if the USA and France stops making promises and actually delivers on something.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2022, 03:11:51 PM
Don't be too sad...now those "kids" can't commit anymore atrocities.


Reports are starting to come through of Russian/scum "kids" atrocities against civilians in Bucha,including many executions.


Apparently the liberating Ukrainian troops are horrified at what they're discovering.

Bodies lying everywhere on the streets,some with tied arms.


I've seen film of it,but i'm not posting it here..it's appalling in it's sheer horror.


It wasn't Putin who executed these people..it was Russian "kids".

It wasn't Putin who gang-raped a 15 year old girl in Irpin while her mother lay dying in the same room..it was Russian "kids".

It wasn't Putin who shelled Mariupol, Kharkiv and Chernihiv residential areas.killing hundred/thousands of civilians...it was Russian "kids".


Putin is scum yes...but so is his military,and they've always been the same..from Germany to Georgia to Syria and now Ukraine.


They're a cruel and barbaric people and war always brings out their real evil nature.

I absolutely agree CB, the atrocities we have seen the Russian Army commit from Mariupol to around the surrounding areas around Kyiv and onwards are appauling. I can't imagine the misery these Russian troops inflicted on innocent Ukrainian civilians, many individuals and families in Ukraine will have been wrecked and lead a wretched life because of what Putin and the Russian Army have done. I feel glad at least that the UK among other western nations have helped Ukraine to fend of these brutal bullies by cooking many of them in their Tanks with our NLAWS, for that is just what they deserve.

I can't see how Ukraine could possibly come to a negotiated peace now after seeing what Russian troops have done to unarmed civilians many trying to flee from the fighting. Ukraine is gaining the upper hand in all of this now and must press home until a Russian defeat.

To my mind we should also be supplying Georgia with some of our weaponry to start up an insurgency of Georgians in the occupied territories of Georgia now that Russia is diverting troops there to fight in Ukraine. That and back insurgency operations throughout Russia, in Chechnya, the Stans, the Far East of Russia, every Russian region. Make the whole lot disintegrate into separate countries so Russia can never try and bully anyone again.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 02, 2022, 04:00:41 PM

I've seen the news outlets speaking to some Ukrainian troops about the anti-Tank missiles they're using and they've all said the NLAW the UK gave them are the best, and they've all made a point of thanking Britain for them. :)
Just need something to hit those Russian ships parked in the Black Sea firing Ballistic Missiles, which would also hit the Russian MIG 31's firing missiles into Ukraine from Russia
Let's see if the USA and France stops making promises and actually delivers on something.

Yes, let's hope.  And many thanks from Ukraine lover to UK folks!!  :-)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 02, 2022, 04:10:14 PM
Russia's war effort stalls as the Red Army can't get replacement weapons or spares for their crippled convoys... because they're all made in Ukraine.

Russia's war effort is grinding to a halt because much of the military hardware they need is made in Ukraine, it emerged as defence sources said the Kremlin could not replenish its stocks.

Ukraine had previously supplied Russia with cruise missiles, helicopter engine parts and fighter jet components. It also produced the fire control systems used by Russian tanks.

Now, when these systems fail, they cannot be replaced. Russia is unable to source these items or alternatives from other countries due to international sanctions.

Since the conflict began in late February, Russia has lost an estimated 143 planes, 131 helicopters, 625 tanks and 316 artillery pieces.

Russia has also fired at least 1,100 missiles, raising questions about how long it can maintain such an expenditure rate.

Given Russia's reliance on Ukraine for military components, UK defence sources say Russia's war effort is in serious trouble.

Last night a source said: 'Serious amounts of components for Russian weapons systems were made there [Ukraine]. That won't be happening any more.

'Russia cannot manufacture this equipment itself or import it, so it won't be getting any of these materials any time soon. The hardware expended in Ukraine came from historic stockpiles, developed when there was greater cooperation between Russia and Ukraine.

'The integration of their industrial complexes meant a severing of relations would jeopardise Russia's ability to sustain military operations. Now they're running out.'

In the Soviet Union era, Ukraine produced 30 per cent of the Union's weaponry and military equipment.

Weapons sales continued after the Cold War. In 2012 Ukraine was the world's fourth largest arms exporter and the Commonwealth of Independent States – as the Soviet Union became – was among its biggest customers.

But after Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 and began the conflict in the Donbas region – aided with Ukrainian equipment – Kyiv drastically reduced supplies to its neighbour.

Ukraine's revenues from arms exports plummeted from £1billion in 2012 to £100million in 2020.According to UK sources, Russia faces drastic shortages of 'helicopter, ship, fighter jet and cruise missile parts'.

Its cruise missiles were manufactured in Ukraine's second biggest city Kharkiv, which has been bombarded by Russian artillery and aircraft.

The state-run instrument-making plant at Izyum also made essential components for Russia's T-72 range of tanks.

The war is also expected to curtail Russia's nuclear programme as half of the components for its ground-based intercontinental ballistic missiles were sourced in Ukraine.

UK intelligence reports have also indicated Russia's generals have pushed back against Kremlin attempts to deploy thousands more troops to Ukraine, rejecting them as 'not fit for purpose'.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2022, 11:49:33 PM
Stories of war crimes now being documented.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

But a researcher claims this was always planned.

http://mobile.twitter.com/Jack_Watling/status/1510391427427147778

Today, Odesa infrastructure was hit by missiles. No deaths were reported.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 03, 2022, 08:15:23 AM
Ukraine now has total control from Kyiv to the Belarus border.


Multiple Russian convoys were totally destoyed over the last 48 hours as the Russians fled in disarray to Belarus,with huge amounts of military equipment abandoned.


Russian forces made an attack right along the Donbas region front and made no ground.


Outside Donetsk a three hour battle resulted in a Russian Tactical Battalion Group being trashed with at least 23 of their Military vehicles being destroyed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 03, 2022, 10:10:02 AM
courtesey of "Daily Mail"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10680875/Two-Russian-troops-dead-28-hospital-POISONED-laced-Ukrainian-buns.html

note to Ukrainians:
wine with cork tops are the easiest
take a large needle and syringe, withdraw some of the wine
inject toxin
bottle appears completely untouched

this is good to put in your basement if you think it's gonna be looted, put a piece of paper with sign on it saying it's "POISON- DON'T DRINK" warn family/friends
before looters come, remove and destroy the sign....
my Pinot Noir is VERY NOIR
hmmmm hmmmm
I got "good stuff" from the Russian KAMERA documents
this is the best wine to be served with your looters "last supper"


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 03, 2022, 10:10:59 AM
Ukraine now has total control from Kyiv to the Belarus border.
Multiple Russian convoys were totally destoyed over the last 48 hours as the Russians fled in disarray to Belarus,with huge amounts of military equipment abandoned.
Russian forces made an attack right along the Donbas region front and made no ground.
Outside Donetsk a three hour battle resulted in a Russian Tactical Battalion Group being trashed with at least 23 of their Military vehicles being destroyed.

Chelseaboy, please post your reference sources to these stories.
Thanks
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 03, 2022, 11:31:43 AM
courtesey of "Daily Mail"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10680875/Two-Russian-troops-dead-28-hospital-POISONED-laced-Ukrainian-buns.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10680875/Two-Russian-troops-dead-28-hospital-POISONED-laced-Ukrainian-buns.html)

note to Ukrainians:
wine with cork tops are the easiest
take a large needle and syringe, withdraw some of the wine
inject toxin
bottle appears completely untouched

this is good to put in your basement if you think it's gonna be looted, put a piece of paper with sign on it saying it's "POISON- DON'T DRINK" warn family/friends
before looters come, remove and destroy the sign....
my Pinot Noir is VERY NOIR
hmmmm hmmmm
I got "good stuff" from the Russian KAMERA documents
this is the best wine to be served with your looters "last supper"
Good tip against looters... But it seems to be that they are not also Russians, there are locals too...
It is said that Irpin and Butcha are infested with booby traps dropped by the Russian forces before they left.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 03, 2022, 12:03:41 PM
Russians used German POWs after great Patriotic War to clear mines...
Ukrainians have Russian POWs
who I am sure would gladly volunteer for this job

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 03, 2022, 01:29:46 PM
Chelseaboy, please post your reference sources to these stories.
Thanks


My source is a good friend with very good contacts ...everything is coming from satellite images which he has access to.


I'd better not say more than that.


There could be something HUGE happening in the next week or two..depending on how everything pans out in Ukraine over that period...this is first-hand from another source actively involved whom i know well.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 03, 2022, 01:44:32 PM
http://liveuamap.com/

map sez yes, of course the usual caveat that "the map is not the territory"
and also YES, something BIG is gonna happen in the near future!!!
it HAS to be done before "Victory Day"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 03, 2022, 10:39:14 PM
For the West, the civilians murdered in North East of Kiev are the perfect pretext to accelerate their military help and especially to deliver heavy weapons like planes, SAM, Harpoons, tanks, and so on.
I hope that they will take this opportunity.
 
In the logic it works like this: RF, you have your red lines (no NATO soldiers, no NATO fly zone, and so on), but we have ours, genocide (if proven) is a red line.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2022, 10:59:37 PM
For the West, the civilians murdered in North East of Kiev are the perfect pretext to accelerate their military helpand especially to deliver heavy weapons like planes, SAM, Harpoon, tanks, and so on.
I hope that they will take this opportunity.
 
In the logic it works like this: RF, you have your red lines (no NATO soldiers, no NATO fly zone, and so on), but we have ours, genocide (if proven) is a red line.


I agree 100%.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 04, 2022, 05:42:51 AM
Sumy has now been re-taken by Ukrainian troops.


A state of the art  Russia's most advanced Aircraft SU-35 fighter jet was shot down over Izyum and the pilot captured.


Ukraine's Deputy Interior Minister Anton Gerashchenko commented "$50 million of damage for the ogres ".


Putin might have to sell his Palace and live in a tent to raise funds to replace all the military equipment he's managing to lose at this rate.



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 04, 2022, 07:17:31 AM
Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited Bucha today. I wont share the images coming out of there, His face says it all.

(http://i.imgur.com/3NEKqs5.jpg)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 08:13:28 AM
This is a synopsis of an article in a Russian paper today. There is little intent to hide the true nature of this invasion. It’s goal is deUkrainization.

http://mobile.twitter.com/francska1/status/1510898134481788930 (http://mobile.twitter.com/francska1/status/1510898134481788930)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 08:27:03 AM
This is a refutation of Russian claims Bucha is faked.

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/04/04/russias-bucha-facts-versus-the-evidence/?s=09
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 08:30:18 AM
Unspeakable.

http://mobile.twitter.com/Mariana_Betsa/status/1510966912724963328?t=ocdsDAKYEZ5jd4xm3rhxRw&s=19
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 04, 2022, 08:38:35 AM
"n the logic it works like this: RF, you have your red lines (no NATO soldiers, no NATO fly zone, and so on), but we have ours, genocide (if proven) is a red line."

computer says no....
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 04, 2022, 10:59:39 AM
"n the logic it works like this: RF, you have your red lines (no NATO soldiers, no NATO fly zone, and so on), but we have ours, genocide (if proven) is a red line."

computer says no....
:ROFL:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 11:31:57 AM
This is from Wali, a French Canadian, who is the best sniper in the Canadian army. He volunteered to go to Ukraine.

Quote
I can now say it. We were in Irpin. We were in Bucha. We've heard a lot from these cities recently. The Russians have committed many crimes against humanity there. We had known that for weeks, because the civilians were telling us about it.

I will tell you two stories. One sad and the other happy. That pretty much sums up why I do what I do.

The crimes were not carried out on the front line. Like Nazis, the Russians were killing civilians behind the front. We could see the areas occupied by the Russians. They were ghost towns: dark, gloomy, where the only light comes from fires. The Russians, often drunk, fired into houses where they heard children crying. We have many testimonies to this effect. Curiously, the Russians killed many teachers, because teachers represent culture, history, knowledge. And to destroy a people, you have to kill its memory.

And now for the happy story, because this is how the release of Irpin and Bucha ended a week ago now...

We had just been reinforced by Ukrainian Army units. We were going back to rest. We were several soldiers in a car and we were moving through debris of all kinds, avoiding from time to time the electric wires lying in the middle of the street. My gun was sticking out the window like a gangster. I saw a lady of about 50 years old. She was in the middle of a parking lot, covered in tree branches, broken glass and other debris. We saw burnt out cars. The lady was in the middle of this sort of sample of the apocalypse. Our eyes met. I smiled at her tilting my head. She smiled back, grateful. A sad smile, but a smile, We had just liberated her city. We had just liberated her city.

http://m.facebook.com/TorcheEtEpee (http://m.facebook.com/TorcheEtEpee)

Above post in French

http://tinyurl.com/2p8k89up (http://tinyurl.com/2p8k89up)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 04, 2022, 01:35:27 PM
This is a refutation of Russian claims Bucha is faked.

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/04/04/russias-bucha-facts-versus-the-evidence/?s=09

Also,

"Fact-checking Russian claims about Bucha killings", BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/60981238 (http://www.bbc.com/news/60981238)

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 01:37:33 PM
Also, satellite images of the bodies lying in the streets when the Russians controlled the town.


http://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 01:50:33 PM
Ukraine has published the names of the Russian soldiers in the unit that was in Bucha.


http://gur.gov.ua/content/voennye-prestupnyky-neposredstvenno-uchastvuiushchye-v-sovershenyy-voennykh-prestuplenyi-protyv-naroda-ukrayny-v-h-bucha-voennosluzhashchye-64-otdelnoi-motostrelkovoi-bryhady-35-oa-vvo.html (http://gur.gov.ua/content/voennye-prestupnyky-neposredstvenno-uchastvuiushchye-v-sovershenyy-voennykh-prestuplenyi-protyv-naroda-ukrayny-v-h-bucha-voennosluzhashchye-64-otdelnoi-motostrelkovoi-bryhady-35-oa-vvo.html)

This is by Maxim Levada, a Kyiv born archaeologist, and nephew of Yuri Levada, founder of the Moscow based Levada Centre. (translated from Polish)

Quote
The thirty-second day of war
Chernihiv

It is an hour and a half drive from Kyiv to Chernihiv. You can leave in the morning, spend the whole day in Chernihiv and return home in the evening. It has always been like this. Before I first came to Chernihiv as a student, in 1978. At that time I belonged to the archaeological school club, and in the summer we went to the excavations in Chernihiv region. We arrived in Chernihiv by bus, and there we had to wait several hours for another bus to take us to our destination.

A few boys from the circle, including myself, excused ourselves and went into town. One of us had a grandmother in Chernihiv. He didn't know her address, but he remembered that she lived next to a square with the strange name of Five Corners Square. It turned out that such a square really existed, several streets branched off it. 
A cosy two-storey house in an old garden, a quiet street. Immediately, we had the impression that we were not in the city, but somewhere in the countryside. For me, who grew up in the centre of noisy Kyiv, this was a joyful addition to the journey that was only just beginning. Grandma lived alone. Our bustling group fell on her like snow on her head. Of course, we immediately said we were very hungry; at a young age the appetite is always good.  I still remember our excellent lunch in that old house; we almost missed the bus and were reprimanded by the management.

Later, on our days off, we would go on excursions to Chernihiv. The management arranged with friends in the archaeological reserve and in the museum, and these excursions were real lessons about the history of the old city.


Chernihiv was very impressive. In Kyiv, all the monuments were scattered between newer buildings. The centre of Chernihiv was completely different, here you could literally be transported into some medieval story. We were guided not by ordinary guides, but by "real scientists", who told us children in detail about their research. Years later, when I was in Chernihiv, I would recognize the places where we walked. I stopped suddenly in the streets, when these memories came so unexpectedly and strongly that I could even smell the smells of my childhood.


From Kyiv to Chernihiv is an hour and a half drive. All the houses in the area where a childhood friend's grandmother lived have been destroyed by shelling. The city has been without heating, light, medicine and food supplies for a fortnight. Most importantly, there is no drinking water in the city. It is close to Kyiv, and nothing can be handed over, the city is cut off. Several times familiar volunteers tried to get through to bring food and aggregates, each time without success. They are constantly being shot at; there are, of course, wounded.

The volunteers, now dealing with supplies, are the ones who are risking the most. They are not soldiers, they are not armed, they cannot defend themselves. They are risking constantly, all over the country - in Ochtyrka, Irpin, Boyarka, Mariupol and Chernihiv. They bring aid, they search for and transport people. My friends went to Irpin for three days looking for an old woman with dementia. They did not know exactly where she was. They drove under constant fire, but did not find her.


Everything took an hour and a half. There is no water, no heating, no food. We have everything, we can bring everything, but the city is blocked.


My friend, the director of the museum in Chernihiv, lives in the museum cellar. He could have left, but he stayed. Every day he makes it known that he is alive, and every day he does something for his city. Just like all those who stayed. Today he wrote: "No water? The rain is our water. 50 litres overnight!".

Such is old Chernihiv. Glory to the heroes!

Thirty-fifth day of war

My parents experienced the war as children. They were both evacuated. I only learned about the war from stories, books and films. My parents often said how good it was that there was no war. I thought I would be the first generation to live in peace. It didn't work out. Now I too have my war, and only those born after it will be able to try to become a 'generation without war'.


I spent my childhood in the Soviet Union. One of the main slogans then was to fight for peace, we were constantly told about it at school. I remember our surprise when, on 9 May, our form teacher, a maths teacher, came with her orders. How could this be? It seemed to us children that war was something very far away. Suddenly we found out that our Eugenia Ivanovna was at the front. It turned out that she went to war as a volunteer. Her husband, Joseph Lvovich, also a mathematician, was also at the front. I don't know if they met during the war or if they went to the war together, they didn't tell us, but when they pinned their medals on the holiday, we involuntarily tried to be quiet and obedient in their presence. We felt that Victory Day was their personal holiday, which we did not understand as they did.

These people taught us to value peace. My grandfather used to drive me, a child, to Glory Park on Victory Day. He would buy a bouquet of carnations and we would walk down the avenue to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. There he would lay flowers and stand, silent. I was very small, it seemed to me that this was a holiday when you should be happy, have some entertainment, eat ice cream. I would pull him by the hand and bore him, and he would stand, silently, for some time and lead me home. In the evening, my grandfather's friends would come to our house. They would sit at the table, eat dinner and begin their endless conversations. I was not allowed at the table that day, my grandmother gave me to eat in the kitchen. Today I understand that they did not want the child to hear about the war.
From the university, I remember a display case next to the dean's office, showing lecturers who participated in the war. I liked looking at it, there were old, just post-war photos. They made a strange impression; it turned out that our old professor was a brave, handsome guardsman, and the old female professor had a lot of war decorations - after all, they weren't given to those who were at the back.

I think that for those in the USSR who survived the war, 'fighting for peace throughout the world' was not empty words. They had war experiences and understood what peace meant.


My friend, an associate professor at the university, joined the territorial defence immediately after the attack on us and has been serving in it ever since. Nobody called him, he went alone. Another good friend, the dean of the history faculty, also volunteered for the army. He is a doctor of history and a professor. By all rights he could have received a discharge from the army, but he went. I think I know why they did - it's hard to be a teacher if your pupils or students are at the front. Also voluntary.

I recently read that in Russia many university employees, rectors, deans, heads of departments, support the war. I saw a whole roster of them. But none of those who have signed there, as I understand it, are going to the front, and I am sure they will not. I don't think any of them can imagine what the bodies of boys, peers of their students and PhD students, rotting in the fields, torn apart by bullets and mines, look like.

There was another tradition in the Soviet Union which might be called social conformity. This was the compulsory and public expression of support for party and government policies. Without it, no one could hold on to a leadership position. Every Soviet rector or dean was obliged to act in accordance with Communist Party policy, and on top of that to keep a close eye on suspicious or iniquitous elements. If he fulfilled these tasks, nothing threatened him under any circumstances. Even if war broke out, he would be placed far away, at the safe rear. Authority always needs obedient, conscientious and sold-out lackeys and relies on them, especially those among the lecturers. They, after all, bring up the likes of themselves.

Burnt libraries and raped teenagers

Last night in Chernihiv the Korolenko regional library was bombed. The roof was smashed, windows shattered, walls cracked. Until the 1917 revolution there was the Noble Bank, in a beautiful palace in modernist style. It was built in 1910-13 to a design by the St Petersburg architect Alexander von Hohen, the same who designed the Suvorov Museum in St Petersburg, the villa of Matilda Krzesinskaya and many others.


On 11 March, the regional youth library building in Chernigov was destroyed by shelling. This was also a historic palace, once owned by Vasyl Tarnovsky, a patron of culture and collector. Since 1897, when Tarnowski donated his unique collection to the Chernihiv region, it has housed the Museum of Ukrainian Antiquities.

In Ivankov near Kyiv, the "liberators" burnt down the building of the museum of Maria Prymachenko, the most famous Ukrainian representative of folk primitivism. In 2009, the centenary of her birth was celebrated, and UNESCO declared the year the Year of Prymachenko.

The museum in Ochtyrka, the art museum in Kharkiv, the theatre in Mariupol, the Popov Mansion museum, dozens of temples, monuments to Holocaust victims in Babi Yar and Drobitsky Yar...

These were not military facilities. Cannons and rockets were not hidden there, anywhere. You can see it clearly in the photographs, broken display cases and cabinets, scattered books.Is what is happening a coincidence?

Even before the war began, the commanders of the "liberator" army confiscated all telephones from the soldiers. But one wants so much to call home! That is why they take the telephones of the inhabitants of the occupied areas and use them en masse. Little do people realise that every phone call to Russia is automatically recorded and saved by the Ukrainian mobile operator. There are already plenty of these records, and very many of them are available on the Internet. So the picture that emerges is this:

Firstly, marauding on a massive scale is taking place. Literally everything is being looted. The liberator cheerfully informs his wife that she now has a fur coat, and he himself the wheels for the car, the television, the notebook, the stereo and so on. And then there are the pictures recorded by cameras, present even in small shops. They carry crates of alcohol, sweets, sausages. Often they bite off a piece of sausage on the way and drink it from the tap.


Secondly, mass rapes take place. They also talk about this on the phone. Three tankmen captured a sixteen-year-old girl and raped her one by one for several days. There are many such stories. And not only do they tell, but they brag! After the recapture of Irpin, Ukrainian soldiers began to deport those who did not manage to save themselves. And among them are very many sixteen- and seventeen-year-old girls. They need psychologists, they are afraid of people, even their own parents.

In the Kyiv region, one of the 'liberators' shot the father and repeatedly raped the mother in front of the eyes of the minor son. However, our special forces found this monster. He no longer rapes anyone. There was a similar case in Mariupol. The woman died and the child is speechless and reacts to almost nothing.

That is the picture - destroyed libraries and dead raped women. It is therefore clear that peace, unfortunately, cannot be expected. In view of what is happening, there can be no peace - these images will return sooner or later.


http://wyborcza.pl/magazyn/7,124059,28297963,spalili-muzeum-starozytnosci-ukrainy-muzeum-marii-primaczenko.html?disableRedirects=true (http://wyborcza.pl/magazyn/7,124059,28297963,spalili-muzeum-starozytnosci-ukrainy-muzeum-marii-primaczenko.html?disableRedirects=true)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 01:59:16 PM
Story on looting, naming soldiers.


http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/4/7337132/ (http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/4/7337132/)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 02:06:54 PM
Germany temporarily nationalizes Gazprom Germany.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-04/germany-to-temporarily-run-gazprom-unit-to-safeguard-gas-supply (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-04/germany-to-temporarily-run-gazprom-unit-to-safeguard-gas-supply)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 04, 2022, 02:16:47 PM
Hello all,

Checking in on the forums again.

Krim, yes, a bit odd.  Not not entertaining, and not not correct at various times.  Hopefully things are going well for you in Uzbekistan.  :popcorn:

ML and others with friends and family in Ukraine, I hope they are safe and sound.


T will be returning this week.  She's getting burned out over there and misses home.  She hasn't made any plans, but I think she will go back in May to keep helping as best she can.

My life has turned a bit surreal.  I have spent more time on various online news and information portals than ever.  I have joined various support groups on Facebook, when in the past I maybe checked once a month and posted 3 or 4 times a year.


One comfort has been the subreddit r/FarmersStealingTanks.  Some humor to relieve stress.


T met someone who evacuated with her sister from Mariupol, a woman named Oksana.  T calls her Cyborg.  I asked her why:

We lost contact with T's sister in early March.  The last message from her was that she tried to evacuate but the road ahead was being shelled.  She didn't return to the house because the day before a fragment from an explosion tore a roof above our older nephew's bedroom.  While looking for a better shelter, they met Oksana and her son.  The two of them were going to a shelter they heard about, so N (my SIL) and the boys joined them.  The shelter had about 200 people, and as with N's house, was without electricity, heat or water.

This is where Cyborg came in.  Oksana and 4 men went out everyday with various containers to collect water from a spring or stream under a destroyed bridge.  The bridge was about a kilometer away.  Every day they made their way around debris and various bodies lying about.  A few days the shelling was too close so they went out and collected snow or rainwater.  Oksana also scavenged various abandoned apartments and buildings to find food or useful supplies.

They day N left, Oksana went out on one of her supply scavenging trips.  The deadline to leave was approaching and Oksana was not around.  An adult couple asked to leave with N, and she agreed if Oksana didn't return in time.  15 minutes before the final convoy group needed to depart, Oksana showed up.  N had to turn away the couple and let Oksana and her son join.  The 5 of them drove slowly towards Zaporizhzhia, past several russian checkpoints.  Our youngest nephew didn't realize these were soldiers.  He said they looked like street gangs in camo outfits.  Some waved them on without issue, some stopped and threatened a group in this car or that.  But all eventually got to Zap without further harm.  This was March 15.

The group rested a day in Zap and then 2 days near Dnipro.  They stopped again somewhere near Vinnytsia.  On March 20 they finally made it to a small town near the Polish border where T was waiting.  She had housing arranged for them and they spent two nights there.  That's when T met Oksana and heard their stories.  Oksana credits N for saving her life, and N credits Oksana for saving all their lives.  T calls Oksana Cyborg after she heard their stories.

Oksana and her son are now in Spain, reunited with her boyfriend there.  She has invited all of us to stay with them whenever we want.

N and the nephews are in small town in the Carpathians.  They stayed at a lodge there during the winter holidays several years ago.  The owner said the place is vacant and they can stay there for free.  They do not want to leave Ukraine because our oldest nephew is 19 and cannot leave.  They will stick together.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Noch1 on April 04, 2022, 02:22:49 PM
its incredible what Russian troops are doing.
Anyone who tries to defend these actions for Russian
are as bad as the people who do this.

THis war is being played out on social media, satellites
for the world to watch, I am sure Putin had no idea
how many people would see this and how fast.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 04, 2022, 03:10:46 PM
My mil's building was hit today.
She and SIL.are ok.
Some other residents ok, some  injured.

Complete residential area, no military equipment or troops anywhere near.
This was in Nikolaev
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 03:25:08 PM
Glad they are ok, Jumper.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 04, 2022, 04:01:07 PM
Jumper, when Pootin transfers his troops, they're going to be on the front line
they should GTF out ASAP, do they have some place to go?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 04, 2022, 05:27:41 PM
Rational analysis.

http://youtu.be/SN7o-ThhFfY
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 06:35:31 PM
Sorry, I won’t give any time to someone convicted of unlawful contact with a minor. It says something about character.  It’s probably why he’s reduced to shilling for Russia.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 04, 2022, 07:22:50 PM
Sorry, I won’t give any time to someone convicted of unlawful contact with a minor. It says something about character.  It’s probably why he’s reduced to shilling for Russia.
Ignorance is bliss.

The facts on the ground are facts. The markets have stated Russia is on the path to "winning" this conflict and Modi has also stated this in his actions (as have the Saudis). This is clinical analysis from a domain expert.

I'm sure this video is fake too: http://youtu.be/rLZ2ZzoD-W0
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 04, 2022, 07:43:53 PM
Rational analysis.

http://youtu.be/SN7o-ThhFfY

He has some good points.
He also starts off with taking putins position that donbas is independent republics with no regard for Ukrainians living there whether pro.russian or pro Ukrainian .

Thats seems an odd foot to start off on.

As far as others analysis ,its jist that.

Most of them were saying russia wouldnt invade.
They are about as accurate as weathermen
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 04, 2022, 07:49:22 PM
Jumper, when Pootin transfers his troops, they're going to be on the front line
they should GTF out ASAP, do they have some place to go?

Ive told them.that since day one.
They dont have a place to go out of Ukraine
 nor do they want to,  nor are they willing to.leave unless its all.ruble.
They are also terrified to.leave as reports of what happens on.the outskirts of the city travel.fast .
They could go to the relatives in a village in central Ukraine north west of kirov rog if they could get transportation,but I highly doubt they would even.if it was available.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2022, 09:04:20 PM
More bad news for Russia

http://tinyurl.com/2upuzbz9
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 05, 2022, 04:00:29 AM
Ignorance is bliss.

The facts on the ground are facts. The markets have stated Russia is on the path to "winning" this conflict and Modi has also stated this in his actions (as have the Saudis). This is clinical analysis from a domain expert.

I'm sure this video is fake too: http://youtu.be/rLZ2ZzoD-W0 (http://youtu.be/rLZ2ZzoD-W0)


I watched the video.


Interesting comment at 2:35 where a "resident" of Mariupol says "If OUR Russian Tanks come up they will smash them " :rolleyes:


Whoops.


Seriously,can't you do better than this. ?


Clearly Russian stooges spreading false propaganda..just like you do.


Instead of watching tripe like this ,you'd be better off watching the main news networks...where you'd have seen a  bloke in his forties in Bucha telling how two Chechens from the Russian Military raped a young woman and then dismembered her,and how he and other local blokes found those Chechens and beat them to death,showing the state of his knuckles.


Or how about the elderly lady in Bucha who said Russian troops knocked on her next door neighbours door ,a bloke in his fifties,and asked him for documentation.As he turned to go and get it he was shot in the back of the head.


By the way how's that prediction from you that the War would be over in days working out for you ?


We're now at 5 weeks and 5 days and counting.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 05, 2022, 04:23:24 AM
The Freedom of Russia Legion seems to be gaining numbers..it's now forming a Battalion.


For those who don't know these are surrendered or captured Russian's who now wish to fight for Ukraine.


They are currently in training to get up to Ukrainian standard of fighting and weapon use.


Interestingly they still keep their White armbands,but cover it with a Blue one.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 05, 2022, 12:29:03 PM
This is from a reddit user who does daily roundups of events in Ukraine.

http://tinyurl.com/4h7kyp45

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 05, 2022, 12:40:22 PM
This is why rwd is mistaken. Russia may achieve military “victory”, if they throw everything at Ukraine. But they won’t be able to maintain it, as they have already alienated populations everywhere they have been on Ukrainian lands.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/russian-soldiers-beat-torture-ukrainian-villagers/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 05, 2022, 02:24:25 PM
Where would the Ukrainian insurgents live ?


In the fields ?



Where would they store weapons ?


I suspect Putin wants to level all the cities..Mariupol is first then Kharkiv,then level them all one by one,


He wants all the Ukrainians either dead or as refugees...and he'll use the land for farming to feed his growing military in which he can put the farm-workers in Caravans on low incomes.


Meanwhile the west will stand by and wring their hands,expel Russian diplomats and issue sanctions that don't deter him...until Putin turns his attention to them.


If Putin isn't stopped in Ukraine,who have the biggest Army in Europe after Russia..then where ?


There's a reason why he's constantly testing the UK's Air Defences with his Bombers flying close to our Airspace..
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on April 05, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Chelseaboy,

The west preemptively releasing what would normally be classified information to the public is a splendid tactic that works well against the RU disinformation machine.  Foretelling Putin's moves have consolidated western nations who are acting in lockstep. This nullified the power of his divide and conquer routine.

At this point, military escalation is what Putin desires.  He is trying to provoke the West.  Nothing will mobilize propagandized RU citizens more than an overt NATO intervention in what has been declared part of Russia.  Supporting Ukraine to defend itself does not allow him the satisfaction of being 'right' about NATO wanting to harm Russia, whittling away the rationale he puts forth to justify this war he alone instigated.
   
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 05, 2022, 10:10:00 PM
An analysis of the invasion and why it has not been successful to date.

http://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511528319656755205.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on April 06, 2022, 04:56:18 AM
It might be helpful to know more of the players involved

http://mouqawamahmusic.net/illegitimate-jewish-regimes-secret-plan-for-a-2nd-zionist-entity-in-ukraine/ (http://mouqawamahmusic.net/illegitimate-jewish-regimes-secret-plan-for-a-2nd-zionist-entity-in-ukraine/)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on April 06, 2022, 05:24:47 AM
It might be helpful to know more of the players involved

http://mouqawamahmusic.net/illegitimate-jewish-regimes-secret-plan-for-a-2nd-zionist-entity-in-ukraine/ (http://mouqawamahmusic.net/illegitimate-jewish-regimes-secret-plan-for-a-2nd-zionist-entity-in-ukraine/)

Unbelievable that people actually believe such layers of speculation and utter bollocks being peddled as pseudo scientific truth.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2022, 06:43:43 AM
DNA tests have debunked the “Jews are descendants of the Khazars” theory.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 06, 2022, 08:48:22 AM
so Jew haters claim that:

Jews control the media
Jews control big finance
Jews are involved in vaccines
and now...
Jews control Ukraine...

this makes me feel proud of my ancestry
if you hear of any more "success stories" about Jews please post them!



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 06, 2022, 08:57:40 AM
Mariupol City Council: Russia uses mobile crematoriums to erase evidence of its war crimes.

According to the council, Russia’s special brigades collect and burn the bodies of murdered residents. Tens of thousands of civilians may have been killed in Mariupol, it added.
“The scale of the tragedy in Mariupol the world has not seen since the times of Nazi concentration camps,” mayor Vadym Boychenko said. Russians, he added, “turned our whole city into a death camp.”
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 06, 2022, 01:05:19 PM
Gozpedy,
I warned Russians about this, but even the ones who pay me, don’t wanna listen, cuz then they’d have to “do something” and Russians are really, really bad at this game when it comes to the “doin”

shto te gavorite?

Well moy druzya, one of the biggest drug markets in the Moscva oblast was just seized  by “unfriendly forces”

http://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/05/darknet-hydra-market-site-seized-and-shut-down-doj-says.html

no longer will there be russki dopers wandering around Gorky at night in the light of their cell phone screens, lookin for their drop location, like a nighttime easter egg hunt

I showed Russians how to have a decentralized system, where the SERVERS run on cell phones
buy NYET!!! they didn’t wanna change things….

Yalky Palky

so glad I’m outta there and retired from "the bizness"

if USA would allow "privateers" and let us keep the loot, I'd totally swich sides
and I know how to do REAL DAMAGE there
but no, they're against this idea...
so I'm neutral, like Israel...
American offensive cyber security operations are conducted by young amateurs
with very little knowledge of enemy territory and next level "tricks of the trade"
they're OK on low level penetration testing, etc, but they need a teacher for the top level

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/780th_Military_Intelligence_Brigade_(United_States)
on top of that, they're riddled with moles
Snowden and his girlfriend lived close by and were just two of many who live and work there
2nd biggest mole habitat is silicon valley

 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2022, 01:20:57 PM
I'm going to go back a minute to the "Jews want to take over Ukraine" meme.

In the first independent Ukrainian republic (Ukrainian People's Republic, 1917-1920), Yiddish was declared a state language, together with Ukrainian and Russian.  It appeared on the country's currency.  Jews were the largest ethnic minority in Ukraine, due to the "Pale of Settlement".  Zionism and Hasidism both originated in Ukraine.  Part of the reason why Jews now flock to Uman is because the rabbi who "founded" Hasidism is buried there.  Jews were also over 1/3 of the population of Odesa until WWII.

Kolomoyski has funded a huge synagogue in Dnipropetrovsk, and there has been some conflict around the prominence of the Jewish community there.  But, I don't really see much of an issue even if FP's article is true (i.e., Jews want to take over Crimea, but yes, I know the subtext of that article is "Dumb Ukrainians are fighting for the Jews"). 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 06, 2022, 01:52:10 PM
BO, projouste...
go look at the source...
this is the typical anti-semitism of the last century or so
NOTHING new here
just an off-shoot of the protocols
written by an islamic/russian supporter
being pushed by a trump voter
this is not worthy of debate
because NONE of it is factual

the only thing Jews want from Ukraine, is to freaking leave it, and most have
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 06, 2022, 02:05:41 PM
Mariupol City Council: Russia uses mobile crematoriums to erase evidence of its war crimes.

According to the council, Russia’s special brigades collect and burn the bodies of murdered residents. Tens of thousands of civilians may have been killed in Mariupol, it added.
“The scale of the tragedy in Mariupol the world has not seen since the times of Nazi concentration camps,” mayor Vadym Boychenko said. Russians, he added, “turned our whole city into a death camp.”
So it could be true that displaced populations are now easy to move from Mariupol (in ashes), sorry for my dark humor, but unfortunately, it's possible that they have burnt, or they will burn all corpses in the future, since the Butcha case.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 06, 2022, 02:07:25 PM
Gozpedy,
I warned Russians about this, but even the ones who pay me, don’t wanna listen, cuz then they’d have to “do something” and Russians are really, really bad at this game when it comes to the “doin”

shto te gavorite?

Well moy druzya, one of the biggest drug markets in the Moscva oblast was just seized  by “unfriendly forces”

http://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/05/darknet-hydra-market-site-seized-and-shut-down-doj-says.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/05/darknet-hydra-market-site-seized-and-shut-down-doj-says.html)

no longer will there be russki dopers wandering around Gorky at night in the light of their cell phone screens, lookin for their drop location, like a nighttime easter egg hunt

I showed Russians how to have a decentralized system, where the SERVERS run on cell phones
buy NYET!!! they didn’t wanna change things….

Yalky Palky

so glad I’m outta there and retired from "the bizness"

if USA would allow "privateers" and let us keep the loot, I'd totally swich sides
and I know how to do REAL DAMAGE there
but no, they're against this idea...
so I'm neutral, like Israel...
American offensive cyber security operations are conducted by young amateurs
with very little knowledge of enemy territory and next level "tricks of the trade"
they're OK on low level penetration testing, etc, but they need a teacher for the top level

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/780th_Military_Intelligence_Brigade_(United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/780th_Military_Intelligence_Brigade_(United_States))
on top of that, they're riddled with moles
Snowden and his girlfriend lived close by and were just two of many who live and work there
2nd biggest mole habitat is silicon valley

It's good that you have gone away from the blast.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 06, 2022, 02:16:00 PM
not a fan of Russian "metal music" or any metal music
if that's what you're referring to
BUT there is a lot of contemporary Russian music that I do appreciate
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2022, 03:56:21 PM
This is why rwd is mistaken. Russia may achieve military “victory”, if they throw everything at Ukraine. But they won’t be able to maintain it, as they have already alienated populations everywhere they have been on Ukrainian lands.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/russian-soldiers-beat-torture-ukrainian-villagers/

If Mariupol is anything to go by it looks like the old strategy of deportations of Ukrainians into the depths of Russia and later replacement with ethnic Russians is what they will do. Mariupol is mostly shelled out so no homes for many Ukrainians at the moment in any case. My guess is that Russia will 'Russify' all the land and cities it conquers. If Ukraine can be as successful at keeping Russia out of its cities in the East and South of Ukraine and in doing so Russia's second offensive fails then they might be in with a chance of winning this war. Again Ukraine would have to push Russian forces back and retake the Donbass & Crimea.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2022, 10:05:17 PM
Russian losses may be higher than Ukraine’s estimate (which I assumed was overstated).

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/5/2090250/-Ukraine-update-Russia-s-real-losses-in-Ukraine-may-be-greater-than-even-Ukraine-believes
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2022, 10:17:02 PM
Hmm 🤔

http://m.jpost.com/international/article-703061/amp

I guess all that archaeological evidence of Jerusalem, even Old Testament stories, was faked. 🤷‍♀️
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2022, 11:38:00 PM
I thought this was an interesting analysis.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022/04/06/do-russians-tell-the-truth-when-they-say-they-support-the-war-in-ukraine-evidence-from-a-list-experiment/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 07, 2022, 12:16:15 AM
This is a very good article, although it misses a couple of points about Ukrainian malfeasance prior to 2014. I hope the token works.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merkels-toxic-legacy-germany-nears-a-reckoning-over-ties-to-russia-7lgms9vz8
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 07, 2022, 01:21:30 AM
Russian losses may be higher than Ukraine’s estimate (which I assumed was overstated).

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/5/2090250/-Ukraine-update-Russia-s-real-losses-in-Ukraine-may-be-greater-than-even-Ukraine-believes (http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/5/2090250/-Ukraine-update-Russia-s-real-losses-in-Ukraine-may-be-greater-than-even-Ukraine-believes)
I do agree with the analysis except:The number of planes is too high in a proportion of 4 to 1and the number of helicopters is also too high but in a lower proportion (around 2 to 1)
For the main battle tanks today it could be 900. But 676 is a pretty conservative number.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 07, 2022, 02:54:53 AM
Russian losses may be higher than Ukraine’s estimate (which I assumed was overstated).

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/5/2090250/-Ukraine-update-Russia-s-real-losses-in-Ukraine-may-be-greater-than-even-Ukraine-believes (http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/5/2090250/-Ukraine-update-Russia-s-real-losses-in-Ukraine-may-be-greater-than-even-Ukraine-believes)


One can only hope so.


The less of that murderous horde alive in Ukraine the better...and the more chance of the Ukrainian military winning.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 07, 2022, 07:25:37 AM
Australia,New Zealand,Japan,South Korea,Taiwan all at the NATO meeting today...as the threat of China in the Pacific looms.


As the days go by World War 3 looms ever-closer it seems.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 07, 2022, 07:55:11 AM
Another interesting article. I think the failure to hold Nuremberg like trials of the communist party, and barring communists from holding power, was a huge reason why we are where we are.

http://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/04/the-problem-isnt-just-putin-its-russia
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: steveh1155 on April 07, 2022, 08:10:32 AM
Ive told them.that since day one.
They dont have a place to go out of Ukraine
 nor do they want to,  nor are they willing to.leave unless its all.ruble.
They are also terrified to.leave as reports of what happens on.the outskirts of the city travel.fast .
They could go to the relatives in a village in central Ukraine north west of kirov rog if they could get transportation,but I highly doubt they would even.if it was available.

I've tried to get all my wife's family members to leave as well...some did evacuate to the west, some made it to Poland, Holland and Hungary, but some have flat out refused to go.
The ones that stayed are mostly in a village just south of Kyiv. So far just a couple missle strikes there, no Russia troops. My wife's sister in law did see a Russian recon drone over her house 3 weeks ago, the local Ukrainian defense force shot it down and pieces of it landed in her yard. We no longer talk to our Russian friends...they seem to live in their own reality now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on April 07, 2022, 08:27:52 AM
Mariupol City Council: Russia uses mobile crematoriums to erase evidence of its war crimes.

According to the council, Russia’s special brigades collect and burn the bodies of murdered residents. Tens of thousands of civilians may have been killed in Mariupol, it added.
“The scale of the tragedy in Mariupol the world has not seen since the times of Nazi concentration camps,” mayor Vadym Boychenko said. Russians, he added, “turned our whole city into a death camp.”


http://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20220228-are-russians-using-mobile-crematoriums-in-ukraine (http://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20220228-are-russians-using-mobile-crematoriums-in-ukraine)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on April 07, 2022, 09:02:25 AM
A couple of notable recent developments:

Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill delivered a sermon with an ominous message essentially undermining Ukraine's rights to exist as a sovereign nation and people. Article here -> http://religiondispatches.org/the-russian-patriarch-just-gave-his-most-dangerous-speech-yet-and-almost-no-one-in-the-west-has-noticed/

Several media outlets have reported on Russian troop activities in the region of Chernobyl and particularly the fact they dug trenches in the most heavily irradiated regions of the exclusion zone.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/07/russian-soldiers-dug-trenches-in-chernobyl-zones-radioactive-soil-ukrainian-official-a77255http://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troops-suffer-acute-radiation-sickness-after-digging-chernobyl-trenches?ref=scroll

Attributed to Winston Churchill is the quote; "Never let a good crisis go to waste." One can only imagine how the Russians may 'spin' this to escalate the war, especially given their self-imposed deadline of May 9th to show some significant accomplishment to trumpet for their annual Victory Day commemoration.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 07, 2022, 09:21:30 AM
I thought this was an interesting analysis.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022/04/06/do-russians-tell-the-truth-when-they-say-they-support-the-war-in-ukraine-evidence-from-a-list-experiment/

Very interesting.  I am going to check with some people in social sciences area to see if this method of ascertaining truth has been used for other studies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 07, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
This is a very good article, although it misses a couple of points about Ukrainian malfeasance prior to 2014. I hope the token works.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merkels-toxic-legacy-germany-nears-a-reckoning-over-ties-to-russia-7lgms9vz8

The site wants permission to place cookies on my computer.
I never agree to such.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 07, 2022, 09:36:33 AM
I believe you can reject them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 07, 2022, 09:36:46 AM
Russia has now been suspended from the UN Human Rights Council.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 07, 2022, 10:03:40 AM
Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov has today admitted "significant" losses of Russian troops in Ukraine in an interview with Sky News.


He's still claiming the horrific scenes in Bucha were "a well- staged insinuation,nothing else " though...despite Satellite images from the 18th March showing otherwise and a Russian Tank shown firing at and killing a Ukrainian civilian on a pushbike.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 08, 2022, 09:56:58 AM
The Russian missile that targeted Kramatorsk's train station, as mostly women and children tried to escape.  It says "For the children". 

The level of depravity if absolutely sickening.

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPz3hoaXMAEcSL8?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 08, 2022, 10:23:23 AM
You may wonder why Russians are doing this…

the reason is, that the more non-Russians see of these types of images, then the less shock and distress they’ll feel for that which is coming, which is gonna be a WHOLE LOT worse…

at least, that’s what I heard…
so even this image was planned

I think you folks are gonna be surprised at what’s to come…
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 08, 2022, 10:35:07 AM
The Russians have leveled a city, raped females aged 3 to 78, tortured and killed civilians indiscriminately, forcibly removed civilians to the far reaches of Russia, and put Ukrainian children they deported up for adoption. How much worse can it get?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 08, 2022, 10:45:07 AM
The Russian missile that targeted Kramatorsk's train station, as mostly women and children tried to escape.  It says "For the children". 

The level of depravity if absolutely sickening.

But of course there will always be the question of when were the letters painted and by whom.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 08, 2022, 12:35:29 PM
"How much worse can it get?"

When the Russians claim that the Ukrainians were responsible for the gas and not them...
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on April 08, 2022, 01:02:51 PM
It sends a chill up my spine to think my wife and I stood on that same train platform 20 years ago on the way to RU. Photos, esp. of the dead kids are truly heartbreaking.

Many have left already, so a good portion of these folks were those who either had no means to travel earlier or had to make very tough choices, like leaving relatives behind that are too frail or ill to travel.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 08, 2022, 03:53:52 PM
The Russians have leveled a city, raped females aged 3 to 78, tortured and killed civilians indiscriminately, forcibly removed civilians to the far reaches of Russia, and put Ukrainian children they deported up for adoption. How much worse can it get?

Enrolling the males in the new Ukrainian occupied territories in the RF army (ongoing), deporting the population (to be confirmed), Finding the family of Ukrainian soldiers and executives living in Russia to make pressure on them, poisoning the water, mass raping, using chemicals, dropping dissimulated radioactive material after each withdrawn, targetting railways (ongoing maybe), using more thermobaric weapon (already used?), using cluster bombs on the civilian area with strategic bombing ...
In the scale horror, I am sure that they have more to come in their portfolio. 
 
Ukraine has continuously bitten the offered hand of the Bear, the Bear is now angry, and his anger is higher and higher day after day. Maybe he will give you his pardon if you kiss his feet and you kneel in front of him. You have to suffer more.
I know quite well this behavior, I have been living in a monarchy for twelve years. A monarchy is a kingdom where the King has the right of death or life to EVERY person. Ukraine is considered to be part of the kingdom.




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 08, 2022, 06:47:42 PM
The Russian missile that targeted Kramatorsk's train station, as mostly women and children tried to escape.
There is finger-pointing in both directions. The Russian military withdrew Tochka-U missiles replacing them with Iskanders. It's possible they are utilizing old stockpiles though these missiles are routinely used by the Ukrainian army.

A curious observation from the Bucha news earlier in the week was that victims were wearing white arm bands (identifying Russian 'friend' not 'foe'; Ukrainians wear blue) and had aid boxes from the Russian army.

The truth is the first victim in war. It is possible, if not probable these attacks were perpetrated by Ukrainian forces (which is consistent with civilian testimony in the south) but is impossible to determine at this point in time.

Food-related riots have already broken out in Peru and Sri Lanka. More countries will follow. I don't think people have realized that the global monetary system, that is money, is in a state of collapse. Gold and other tangible assets look a lot better than money in the bank.

Hey Pat - Le Pen is looking the goods! I think she has been riding the slipstream of Zemmour. Apparently Macron is scrambling to get French assets out of Mariupol... if that's true he is in trouble.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 08, 2022, 08:13:42 PM
Nyet….

This is just like the Russian Buk shooting down MH-17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014…
at first Russians said it was the CIA, yeah, that’s the ticket, the CIA
then it was a ukrainian fighter jet, yeah, a Ukrainian fighter jet….
Meanwhile we had intercepted communications of the Russians congratulating themselves on shooting down a "Ukrainian transport""...

Of course now, we even know the serial number of the Buk missile from the factory in Russia…

so second verse, just like the first!
Pro Russian media outlets and several Telegram channels reported earlier in the day of the attack that Russia had launched a successful missile attack on "Ukrainian forces" at the Kramatorsk station. When it became apparent that the attack killed a large number of civilians instead, the announcements were removed, and Russia started calling the attack a hoax. They also claimed that they no longer use Tochka-U missiles, but military experts, Amnesty International, and investigators from the Conflict Intelligence Team all documented their use by Russian forces in Ukraine prior to the strike on Kramatorsk.

BTW, if you purchased Palladium and nickel futures, you would’ve done FAR better than gold and silver
Pravda!

If ya got a Russian problem in your neighborhood,
who ya gonna call?
Rus Busters!
I ain't afraid of no Russians!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 08, 2022, 09:39:10 PM
Krimster2
Koneshno!

This guy agrees-

http://vm.tiktok.com/ZTd94ShYu/


But, I do hope your are wrong about the gas.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2022, 03:11:03 AM
The Russians are taking huge losses in Mariupol,as confirmed by Russian troops ..they're winning as they control more of the city...but the SW part of the city is still held by Ukrainian forces.


The Azov Battalion recently destroyed a LOT of Russian armour there.

Maybe the Russian Orc's should have spent less time shelling , carpet bombing and launching air-strikes on civilians there and concentrated on the Ukrainian forces.

Many Russian forces are close to being surrounded in the Kherson region,although it's not known if there are plans for Ukrainian forces to liberate the city itself yet.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2022, 03:57:15 AM
Krimster2
Koneshno!

This guy agrees-

http://vm.tiktok.com/ZTd94ShYu/ (http://vm.tiktok.com/ZTd94ShYu/)


But, I do hope your are wrong about the gas.


Just watched that...basically confirms the info i have  and posted about Mariupol,although he says Ukraine controls the centre,and the Kherson region.


Regarding his comments about Russian Oil,Reuters reported a couple of days ago that China is honouring existing contracts for Russian Oil,but have refused to agree new contracts for Russian discounted Oil due to the fear of Western Sanctions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2022, 04:27:04 AM
Nyet….

This is just like the Russian Buk shooting down MH-17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014…
at first Russians said it was the CIA, yeah, that’s the ticket, the CIA
then it was a ukrainian fighter jet, yeah, a Ukrainian fighter jet….
Meanwhile we had intercepted communications of the Russians congratulating themselves on shooting down a "Ukrainian transport""...

Of course now, we even know the serial number of the Buk missile from the factory in Russia…

so second verse, just like the first!
Pro Russian media outlets and several Telegram channels reported earlier in the day of the attack that Russia had launched a successful missile attack on "Ukrainian forces" at the Kramatorsk station. When it became apparent that the attack killed a large number of civilians instead, the announcements were removed, and Russia started calling the attack a hoax. They also claimed that they no longer use Tochka-U missiles, but military experts, Amnesty International, and investigators from the Conflict Intelligence Team all documented their use by Russian forces in Ukraine prior to the strike on Kramatorsk.

BTW, if you purchased Palladium and nickel futures, you would’ve done FAR better than gold and silver
Pravda!

If ya got a Russian problem in your neighborhood,
who ya gonna call?
Rus Busters!
I ain't afraid of no Russians!


Yes the type of missiles used to target the civilians at the Kramatorsk train station were being displayed at Russian Military parades as recently as last year.


These Russians are quite idiotic liars..they get caught out constantly.


Russian Orcs now desperately trying to catch Pigeons for food in Ukraine.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
There is finger-pointing in both directions. The Russian military withdrew Tochka-U missiles replacing them with Iskanders. It's possible they are utilizing old stockpiles though these missiles are routinely used by the Ukrainian army.

A curious observation from the Bucha news earlier in the week was that victims were wearing white arm bands (identifying Russian 'friend' not 'foe'; Ukrainians wear blue) and had aid boxes from the Russian army.

The truth is the first victim in war. It is possible, if not probable these attacks were perpetrated by Ukrainian forces (which is consistent with civilian testimony in the south) but is impossible to determine at this point in time.

Food-related riots have already broken out in Peru and Sri Lanka. More countries will follow. I don't think people have realized that the global monetary system, that is money, is in a state of collapse. Gold and other tangible assets look a lot better than money in the bank.

Hey Pat - Le Pen is looking the goods! I think she has been riding the slipstream of Zemmour. Apparently Macron is scrambling to get French assets out of Mariupol... if that's true he is in trouble.
Yes she seems to definitively win enough votes for the second round.
So it will end like the last election for the French president.
I just hope that she will be better prepared and that she has changed her advisors because last time her strategy was a disaster.
But you know a lot can change between the two rounds.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 09, 2022, 10:16:21 AM
Yes she seems to definitively win enough votes for the second round.
So it will end like the last election for the French president.
I just hope that she will be better prepared and that she has changed her advisors because last time her strategy was a disaster.
But you know a lot can change between the two rounds.

Pat, isn't Le Pen a Putin supporter ?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2022, 11:09:22 AM
Pat, isn't Le Pen a Putin supporter ?
Yep,
It is said the Russian Federation is supporting far-right political parties in Europe
One thing is sure I know personally someone close to her family, and he has swallowed entirely the RT narrative (2015) 
So you can be sure that the party of Marine Le Pen is pro-Russian. 
This is a total oxymoron as the right-far parties are known to potentially be the closest people to the Nazis in theory (WTF, if the real nazis are in Ukraine, why are you fighting with the DNR LPR???)In the end, they know shit about Eastern Europe, the culture, the history, and so on.
I also watch a lot of US advisors, former militaries, and worst,  high profiles from think thank talking about the war and often the content is poor quality.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 09, 2022, 11:55:41 AM
I picked this picture off of "Telegram" a Russian chat app
it's of another Tochka that was shot down yesterday by Ukrainians near Chernigov
it shows where to look for the manufacturer's serial number
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2022, 02:53:02 PM
Well Boris Johnson rocked up in Kyiv today...bringing a much-needed smile to President Zelensky's face.


The UK is going to supply,among other things,much-needed  new Harpoon  Anti-Ship missile systems and 120  Mastiff  heavily  armoured  patrol vehicles,which  weigh 23 tonnes and carry eight troops and two crew.


Boris is becoming quite Churchillian in this war  :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 09, 2022, 03:14:15 PM
This Russian terrorist invasion of Ukraine saved Boris Johnson's job.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 09, 2022, 03:19:39 PM
http://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1512867082932793347

I recommend watching this, must be infuriating to the Orc lord Putin..

Quote
At a handshake distance.
@BorisJohnson
 and
@ZelenskyyUa
 walked through the center of Kyiv and talked to ordinary Kyivans. This is what democracy looks like. This is what courage looks like. This is what true friendship between peoples and between nations looks like.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 09, 2022, 04:28:58 PM
http://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1512867082932793347

I recommend watching this, must be infuriating to the Orc lord Putin..

Thanks for posting.  Quite heart warming.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 05:56:51 PM
The truth is the first victim in war. It is possible, if not probable these attacks were perpetrated by Ukrainian forces (which is consistent with civilian testimony in the south) but is impossible to determine at this point in time.


There are satellite images, taken when the Russians still controlled the region.  There is eyewitness testimony of survivors.  There are interceptions by Western intelligence sources.  Given all of this, the chance that Ukrainians committed these war crimes is practically zero.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 06:32:24 PM
PS One of the sources that released intercepted communications from Bucha was the Germans. I doubt they have any reason they doctor them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 09, 2022, 07:04:11 PM
after spending a few hours watching the "alternative reality" being spun by Russian TV, can I get the raison d'etre of Fox News....
"It can't happen here"?
Really? because to me it already is...
I think I need to take more drugs now...
otherwise I'm gonna get the "sadz"
yes, much, much more...
and I think the piano has been drinking
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 07:07:02 PM
I don’t watch tv news. Not even Canadian news.

Diary of doctors and nurses in Bucha-

http://zaborona.com/en/war-diary-of-doctors-from-bucha-one-of-the-hottest-spots-in-ukraine/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 07:16:04 PM
Perhaps he didn’t realize he was sneaking past Ukrainian soldiers (/s)

http://mobile.twitter.com/o_ostapchuk/status/1512643300741816322?s=21&t=q5pqa7gGVzMg-bcZSzduhg
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 09, 2022, 08:00:32 PM
can you imagine smuggling a switchblade suicide drone into Moscow for the Victory Day Parade, and hitting the VIP stand on live TV?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 10:04:00 PM
This contains video of American volunteers in a firefight. The video is difficult to see, but has good sound.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u0a94f/a_squad_composed_of_american_volunteers_ambushed/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 10:22:36 PM
An interesting article about the defence of Kyiv.

http://www.ft.com/content/e87fdc60-0d5e-4d39-93c6-7cfd22f770e8
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2022, 11:21:58 PM
Interesting article about the use of drones.

http://warontherocks.com/2022/04/of-roadside-bombs-and-drones-putins-looming-insurgency-problem/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 10, 2022, 02:27:24 AM
British MOD says Russia now desperately trying to bolster its Forces by calling up ex  Military personnel discharged since 2012.


Satellite images show an eight mile column of Russian Orcs approaching Kharkiv from Russia.


That's considerably less than the forty mile column that approached Kyiv at the beginning of the war and shows the scale of Russian losses....so far.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2022, 02:47:29 AM
Well Boris Johnson rocked up in Kyiv today...bringing a much-needed smile to President Zelensky's face.


The UK is going to supply,among other things,much-needed  new Harpoon  Anti-Ship missile systems and 120  Mastiff  heavily  armoured  patrol vehicles,which  weigh 23 tonnes and carry eight troops and two crew.


Boris is becoming quite Churchillian in this war  :)

Yes it was indeed great to see the news articles of Boris in Kyiv CB, even video footage of him touring the streets of Kyiv with Zelensky. Kyivians met them both and one gave each one a ceramic Cockerel which has become a symbol of unity and struggle against the Russian Invasion. It's great that the UK is taking such a prominent role in helping the fight against Russia I don't think it would have been that possible were we still a part of the EU to be so prominent. Should all garner a lot of good favour for British guys going out there dating I think :D

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61052643
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 10, 2022, 03:49:04 AM
http://twitter.com/expatua/status/1512701296796700676


Woman tells how Russians were shocked how Ukrainians lived - "They have all houses made of bricks, laptops and Nutella in every house - it can't be,"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 10, 2022, 05:30:25 AM
British MOD says Russia now desperately trying to bolster its Forces by calling up ex  Military personnel discharged since 2012.


Satellite images show an eight mile column of Russian Orcs approaching Kharkiv from Russia.


That's considerably less than the forty mile column that approached Kyiv at the beginning of the war and shows the scale of Russian losses....so far.

Yes they struggle to recruit soldiers. 
True or false I have read that 60 paratroopers have quit and are facing prosecution now. 
Some attorneys are helping soldiers to find out some procedural ways to not go to the war.
 
A lot of Russian elite military forces have suffered severe losses, probably more than the regulars troops. Conscripts are not useful and are easily defeated. 
 
Ukraine focuses to recruit as many as possible experienced soldiers while the territorial defense performs other tasks (but still very useful for the fight). 
Do you know when the next Ukrainian contingent will be operational? 
I don't feel that the Russian HQ has really drawn the lessons of the five previous weeks for the moment, while Ukrainian forces are fine-tuning their skills and improving their interarm expericence with new technologies.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 10, 2022, 08:18:35 AM
An interesting article about the defence of Kyiv.

http://www.ft.com/content/e87fdc60-0d5e-4d39-93c6-7cfd22f770e8

Need to pay to read this.  Often time (if I have a subscription to a source) I cut and paste such articles for the benefit of other readers.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 10, 2022, 10:07:42 AM
I'm really surprised that Ukraine hasn't figured out that they can buy tons of bulk Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer in Rostov
and ship it to Crimea over Boris Rotenberg's "super pooper" bridge
and accidentally blow it up
this would be REAL easy to do...
you'd need a really small crew and budget for this
just sayin...

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 10, 2022, 10:54:31 AM

I'm really surprised that Ukraine hasn't figured out that they can buy tons of bulk Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer in Rostov
and ship it to Crimea over Boris Rotenberg's "super pooper" bridge
and accidentally blow it up
this would be REAL easy to do...
you'd need a really small crew and budget for this
just sayin...

 :ROFL: 
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 10, 2022, 02:35:51 PM
I'm really surprised that Ukraine hasn't figured out that they can buy tons of bulk Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer in Rostov
and ship it to Crimea over Boris Rotenberg's "super pooper" bridge
and accidentally blow it up
this would be REAL easy to do...
you'd need a really small crew and budget for this
just sayin...

Lots of guys trained to do just that in the u.s.
The recent pile of ukranians training here may have got some tips
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 10, 2022, 02:38:42 PM
23-year-old Nazar Nebozhenskyi, who saved 20 fellow soldiers by drawing fire from 3 Russian BTRs to himself and destroying 2 of them, being mortally wounded in the process. Remember his name.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 10, 2022, 02:55:20 PM
Of bridges being taken out.
Remember Vitalii
Order of the Gold star.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalii_Skakun
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 10, 2022, 03:50:54 PM
It seems that the 8 mile column of Orcs approaching Kharkiv from Russia has been totally destroyed.


Witnesses report a 13 km convoy has been destroyed with 2000 bodies and lots and lots of equipment.


The source is M. Anoctono adviser to the Ukraine Minister of Domestic Affairs 2015-2021.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 10, 2022, 05:31:31 PM
It seems that the 8 mile column of Orcs approaching Kharkiv from Russia has been totally destroyed.
Witnesses report a 13 km convoy has been destroyed with 2000 bodies and lots and lots of equipment.
The source is M. Anoctono adviser to the Ukraine Minister of Domestic Affairs 2015-2021.

Google search returns zero concerning this.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 10, 2022, 06:27:38 PM
ML,

Google is  such a monetized search platform I think it really buries results.
Try dogpile or other sources.

Ukraine live map.on Twitter has references to it.
And the report by the Ukrainian official.

http://t.co/BtPJRLsnII


No idea  how accurate the report is.

They also show Russia took out a s300 antiaircraft unit near mikolaev, so far most of what they show has ultimately been confirmed.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 10, 2022, 06:34:10 PM
An 8 mile long Russian military convoy with hundreds of vehicles (including armored vehicles, truck towed artillery &amp; support equipment) was reportedly destroyed by Ukrainian forces while moving east of Kharkiv towards Izyum.<a href="http://t.co/4j2dIYv8kP">http://t.co/4j2dIYv8kP</a> <a href="http://t.co/aUt9lTLrwx">pic.twitter.com/aUt9lTLrwx</a></p>&mdash; OSINT UK (@jon96179496) <a href="http://twitter.com/jon96179496/status/1513098372634263553?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 10, 2022, 10:32:04 PM
Also the story from a Canadian volunteer soldier in Ukraine.

http://mobile.twitter.com/canadianukrain1/status/1513270462746398724?s=21&t=QNRptmQLMlkDxabnCuNqiQ
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 10, 2022, 11:28:28 PM
ML,

Google is  such a monetized search platform I think it really buries results.
Try dogpile or other sources.

+1
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 11, 2022, 05:43:22 AM
http://twitter.com/jenniferwilton/status/1513396409818656769?s=20&t=ed0gfPw7WvVcRmILkHuSVw
Quote
„Der Krieg in der Ukraine war der Punkt, an dem es nicht mehr möglich war zu schweigen.“ Die russischen Journalistin #MarinaOvsyannikova schreibt jetzt für
@welt
. Hier - und http://welt.de

Quote
“The war in Ukraine was the point where it was no longer possible to remain silent.” Russian journalist #MarinaOvsyannikova now writes for
@welt
. Here - and http://welt.de
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 11, 2022, 05:49:07 AM

Mariupol is about to fall..

This morning the 36th Separate Marine Brigade of the Ukrainian military defending #Mariupol released a "farewell" message on their Facebook page saying they are running out of ammunition and asking Ukrainians to remember them. [translated]

http://www.facebook.com/36obrmp/posts/1193721624498582
Quote
Dear Ukrainian people.
We are the 36th Marine Brigade named after Rear Admiral Mykhailo Bilynsky, who, without betraying the oath of allegiance in 2014, left the Crimea and continued to perform the task of defending Ukraine with dignity.
We have been defending Mariupol for 47 days since the beginning of the war. We were bombed from planes, we were fired upon from artillery, tanks and other firearms. We defended ourselves with dignity, doing the impossible. But any resources tend to run out.
During the fighting, we were once given 50,122 shells, 20 minutes a few enlaws and starlin Elon Musk - thank you Elon, he escaped many air strikes and still works. We were not given anything more. Without the ability to defend ourselves, the enemy gradually pushed us back to the Azovmash plant, surrounded us with fire and is now trying to destroy us. There was an option to bring reserves to us to strengthen and continue the defense. There were options for the brigade to make a breakthrough and go to their troops. We reported this to OTU East and they started planning the operation. Sodol and Delyatitsky tried to do something, but their senior staffs were busy. We reported about it to the Environmental Protection Agency, they said stay hold, we promised a helicopter that never arrived. We talked to the commander-in-chief who promised to unblock it. We spoke with the Guarantor who guaranteed us either a political or military solution to the situation. For more than a month, the Marines fought without replenishment of ammunition, without food, without water, almost lacking from a puddle and died in packs. The mountain of the wounded is almost half of the brigade. Whose limbs are torn off and can walk back to work. All the infantry were killed and the gunfights were fought by artillerymen, anti-aircraft gunners, communications of the driver and the cook. Even the orchestra. They die but fight. We are gradually coming to an end. Wise generals advise to take ammunition from the enemy. Probably these scoop SUVs are not extinct, so many people will die in vain because of them. There were chances. There were opportunities, but due to the urgency of reporting vertically, they were not implemented. Nobody wants to talk to us anymore because we are written off. Today will probably be the last fight as there is no BC left. Further into hand-to-hand combat. Then for some death, and for some captivity.
Dear Ukrainian people.
I do not know what will happen next, but I beg you to remember the Marines with a kind word, and no matter how things develop further, do not speak ill of the Marines.
They did everything possible and impossible.
Because we are ALWAYS FAITHFUL!
11.04.2022…

Google translate, I take no responsibility for errors (which there are)

Original:
Quote
Дорогий український народ.
Ми 36 бригада морської  піхоти  імені контр-адмірала  Михайла Білинського,  незрадивши присяги 2014 вийшли  з Криму  і продовжували гідно виконувати завданя щодо оборони України.
З початку вийни мы вже 47 суток захищаемо Мариуполь. Нас бомбили с самолетов, нас обстреливали с атилерии, танков и других огневых средств. Мы достойно держали оборону делая невозможное. Но любые ресурсы имеют свойство заканчиватся.
За время боевых действий нам один раз передали 50 122 снарядов, 20 мин немного энлавов и старлинк Илон Маск - спаибо Илон, он выдежал множество авиаударов и до сих пор работает. Больше нам не передали ничего. Без бк не имея возможности оборонятся противник постепенно оттеснил нас на завод Азовмаш, окружил сковал огнем и теперь пытается нас уничтожить. Был вариант привести к нам резервы чтоб усилить и продоолжить оборону. Были варианты бригаде совершить прорыв и выйти к своим войскам. Мы докладывали об этом в ОТУ Схід и они начинали планувати операцию. Содоль, Делятицкий пытались чтото сделать, но их старшие штабы заварачивали. Мы докладывали об этом в ООС они говорили тримайтесь мы работаем, обещали вертолет который так и не прилетел. Мы разговаривали с главнокомандующим который пообещал деблокаду. Мы разговаривали с Гарантом который гарантировал нам или политическое или военное решение ситуации. Больше месяца морпехи воевали без пополнения боепривасов, без еды, без воды чуть не ли лакая из лужи и погибали пачками. Гора раненых составляет чуть ли не половина бригады. У кого неоторваны конечности и могут ходить возвращаются в строй. Пехота вся погибла и стрелковые бои ведут артилеристы зенитчики связисты водителя и повора. Даже оркестр. Погибают но борются. Мы постепенно заканчиваемся. Мудрые генералы советуют отбирать боеприпасы у противника. Наверно не вымерли эти савковые паркетники поэтому много народу изза них умрет зря. Были шансы. Были возможности но изза сыкливости докладывать по вертекали они не реалезованы. С нами уже никто нехочет общатся потому что мы списаны. Сегодня будет наверное крайний бой так как бк не осталось. Дальше в рукопашную. Дальше для некоторых смерть, а для некоторых плен.
Дорогой украинский народ.
Я не знаю что будет дальше, но я очень тебя прошу помяни морских пехотинцев добрым словом и независимо как будут развиватся дальше события неговорите плохо про морскую пехоту.
Они сделали все возможное и невозможное.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 06:29:54 AM
Very sad news for Ukraine and the defenders of Mariupol.


About a week ago President Zelensky suggested they withdraw but they said no because they refused to leave their wounded behind.


Very disappointing that they felt abandoned and forgotten about by their senior Command. :(
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 11, 2022, 07:28:53 AM
Very sad news for Ukraine and the defenders of Mariupol.


About a week ago President Zelensky suggested they withdraw but they said no because they refused to leave their wounded behind.


Very disappointing that they felt abandoned and forgotten about by their senior Command. :(
Commander-in-Chief of #ZSU Valery Zaluzhny commented on the situation in #Mariupol.

"The defense of Mariupol continues. Communication with the units that heroically hold the city is stable and maintained. We are doing everything possible and impossible to win and save lives."
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 07:59:15 AM
Seems that the 160 left of them surrendered at the Azovstal Plant this morning.


Throwing rubble/rocks at the Russians really wasn't much of an option.


Hopefully they will be treated with the respect they deserve.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 11, 2022, 08:56:00 AM
In latest news (April 11, 2022) I could find in dogpile search indicated zero about destruction of any Russian convoy near Kharkiv.

http://www.laprensalatina.com/at-least-11-civilians-killed-14-wounded-in-russian-shelling-of-kharkiv/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 11, 2022, 08:59:27 AM
Wife and I seriously don't understand why Ukraine military cannot move south and attack the Russians surrounding Mariupol.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 09:07:52 AM
In latest news (April 11, 2022) I could find in dogpile search indicated zero about destruction of any Russian convoy near Kharkiv.

http://www.laprensalatina.com/at-least-11-civilians-killed-14-wounded-in-russian-shelling-of-kharkiv/ (http://www.laprensalatina.com/at-least-11-civilians-killed-14-wounded-in-russian-shelling-of-kharkiv/)


It seems odd that there have been no phone videos of the "destroyed" convoy by now.


Such a blow to the Russian forces would surely have been gloated on by the Ukrainian forces.


Hopefully it wasn't misinformation from the people concerned...i don't see what they've gained from it if so.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 11, 2022, 09:12:59 AM
In latest news (April 11, 2022) I could find in dogpile search indicated zero about destruction of any Russian convoy near Kharkiv.

http://www.laprensalatina.com/at-least-11-civilians-killed-14-wounded-in-russian-shelling-of-kharkiv/

The Twitter tweets  I posted links to regarding the various reports of the convoys destruction ,including the Ukrainian official (on a Ukrainian gov Twitter accout)
We're all found on dogpile  yesterday evening near the top of the search list.

There was zero mention of those on Google  using the same search terms

Im.not saying to utilize dogpile only either, was just suggesting one better alternative to just using Google which  will severaly limit your resources.

I also don't know your specific search words,nor do I say the convoy was destroyed.
I will say the sources have been reasonably accurate throughout this though I highly doubt the 2000 casuality number in a convoy ambush attack.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 09:18:49 AM
Wife and I seriously don't understand why Ukraine military cannot move south and attack the Russians surrounding Mariupol.


The Canadian guy,who's fighting in the Kherson region,covered this.


"it is currently impossible to de-blockade Mariupol.Our troops will be sitting ducks in the Steppes ,under Air-strikes from Rostov and Crimea."


This is one of the reasons why the Ukrainians are desperately asking NATO to close the skies.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 11, 2022, 09:31:44 AM
Wife and I seriously don't understand why Ukraine military cannot move south and attack the Russians surrounding Mariupol.

You'd have to know troop numbers and equipment in the area.

You do already know they were cut off and surrounded for weeks
Obviously  pretty strong Russian troop contingents cut them.off.
You dint have naval control of the black sea or.air control of mariupol to get supplies in or protect your troops
Russias being dropping supplies including heavy artillery equipment  at the Port city just west.
That's huge issue, its not like.ukraine is winning this on all fronts,

So you'd have to determine that strenght  russia jas there vs the possibility of reaching the objective, and the likely losses incurred.  Only as example do you lose a battalion to possibly  save the shreds of what's left of one? And more likely only.lose it in an unsuccessful attempt at such?

We simply don't have that info to know why they made that choice ,nor do we know that they arnt tryingvto push south and south east.as much as they can (across the map they have been)


It's a war. Not trying to be rude,just trying to explain its not like Hollywood movies.
You don't throw your resources away in Mariupol,if at all possible or realistic you'd secure them.
You also dont throw your resources away in trying an impossible task if that's what was determined.

The other side of it is more calculating.
Since Russia seems determined beyond all common sense to waste so many resources on making a point in mariupol( ( I do believe  wiping out azov let's them.claim a denazification win by may 9th)

Do you let them do so from a strategic standpoint as it ties up their efforts to mostly concentrated  one spot  and let's your troops concentrate and prepare defensive positions  in other critical.areas?
Does it let russia have face saving.win
which can soften.their.position at the  negotiation tables you are engaged in?

There is sadly a lot more at stake than those making a last stand there.




Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 09:38:51 AM
The Azov Battalion is also running low on ammo apparently.


Surrendering probably isn't an option for them.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 11, 2022, 09:41:09 AM
I feel the progress Ukraine has made near mikolaev and into kherson is likely from the protection  provided by anti air equipment in the area.
The reported  loss of a s300.near mikolaev is bad.
Hopefully they have a lot more.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 09:48:37 AM
Could be getting worse..the Russians claim to have destroyed the S-300 supplied by Slovakia .


Slovakia has not confirmed this yet.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 11, 2022, 10:15:59 AM
Apparently the post about Mariupol is false, site was hacked according to TV7

http://www.facebook.com/tv7mariupol/posts/5056417044437238

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 11, 2022, 10:27:52 AM
Could be getting worse..the Russians claim to have destroyed the S-300 supplied by Slovakia .


Slovakia has not confirmed this yet.

I hope not.
That sais I do absolutely wish reports of equipment  sent is not made public  until long after it wouldn't matter.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 11:49:50 AM
Apparently the post about Mariupol is false, site was hacked according to TV7

http://www.facebook.com/tv7mariupol/posts/5056417044437238 (http://www.facebook.com/tv7mariupol/posts/5056417044437238)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


It's getting to the stage we can't believe anything we hear during this war...with all the false reporting we're starting to hear from both sides.


The Fog of War certainly applies in this conflict.


I think i'll stick to my original source and even then wait until it's confirmed on the major news outlets.


We might have years of this ahead of us.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 11, 2022, 12:01:39 PM

It's getting to the stage we can't believe anything we hear during this war...with all the false reporting we're starting to hear from both sides.


The Fog of War certainly applies in this conflict.


I think i'll stick to my original source and even then wait until it's confirmed on the major news outlets.


We might have years of this ahead of us.

Like BBC?

http://tinyurl.com/2h5zay74

I agree on what you said, fog of war is hard to get through..

I only post here what I see from more than one trustworthy source.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on April 11, 2022, 12:18:28 PM
Wife and I seriously don't understand why Ukraine military cannot move south and attack the Russians surrounding Mariupol.

Some answers may be found in this article --> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/ukraine-last-marines-defending-mariupol-running-out-of-ammunition

Jumper1 addressed it correctly. It's all about numbers of troops (and equipment) defensively and offensively. Those numbers are, and should remain, closely held secrets until long after the engagements.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1594611/russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-latest-vladimir-putin-mariupol

Putin testing the western response...
if it's OK to use in the UK and Europe in small quantities
then let's steadily increase the quantity in Ukraine
and see what happens
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 11, 2022, 02:59:28 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1594611/russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-latest-vladimir-putin-mariupol

Putin testing the western response...
if it's OK to use in the UK and Europe in small quantities
then let's steadily increase the quantity in Ukraine
and see what happens
There is no operational benefit in targeting civilians with such weapons. Azov guys holed up in manufacturing plants however - different story. If the Russian government is happy to use a chemical weapon during the Dubrovka siege then they'll be more than willing to use them to clean out a steel plant full of Nazis. Obviously the Russkies want to keep those plants in tact and have good intel who is stuck there... sounds like one or more "VIPs"... some say French, some say British, some say an American 3-star General... but someone noteworthy is there.

In other news -

An Italian journalist has disclosed the serial number on the missile that hit the train station. It's reported that it is a Ukrainian missile... aaand the west goes silent on that one.

A French journalist went with a few others to enlist in the foreign legion. He reported it is being run by Americans and not Ukrainians. Straight up a US operation. Pat have you seen that news footage?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 11, 2022, 03:06:52 PM
Pro Russian telegram accounts had bragged about that missile being launched into a crowd of "Ukrainian militants" before it was clear civilians, including children, had been hit.


Why are you assuming the Italian report is accurate?


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPz5ykbXsAMSHKl?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 11, 2022, 03:09:17 PM
Quote
There is no operational benefit in targeting civilians with such weapons.

There's no operational benefit in torturing and executing civilians, raping children and women, and looting and destroying homes, but that's all happening too.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 11, 2022, 03:10:01 PM
Wife and I seriously don't understand why Ukraine military cannot move south and attack the Russians surrounding Mariupol.
The Russians have pinned down a large portion of the Ukrainian army in the south, and any moving from the north will face death from above. Supply lines will get hit and without them they're as good as dead. Southern Ukraine is no longer Ukraine! Plenty of Russian flags going up on buildings... if you're reading MSM then you're probably getting a distorted view. A mix of Telegram channels will give a better picture.

Some analysts have stated the Russian troop movements in the north were a bluff so that they could more effectively perform their operations in the south. Once the south falls it's as good as game over.

Boe - I'm not saying the Italian reporter is accurate, I have said it was inconclusive (but it's funny how it drops out of the news once it is reported). I've been pretty consistent in saying the first victim of war is the truth. Without an open mind one will fall back into personal biases.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on April 11, 2022, 03:11:35 PM

The Canadian guy,who's fighting in the Kherson region,covered this.


"it is currently impossible to de-blockade Mariupol.Our troops will be sitting ducks in the Steppes ,under Air-strikes from Rostov and Crimea."


This is one of the reasons why the Ukrainians are desperately asking NATO to close the skies.
Ukrainian forces are also stretched thin. The main bulk of a UKR forces are in defensive positions in the Donbas preparing for the RF thrust there in the coming days.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 11, 2022, 03:12:56 PM
There's no operational benefit in torturing and executing civilians, raping children and women, and looting and destroying homes, but that's all happening too.
Where's the evidence of chemical weapons targeting civilians?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 11, 2022, 03:14:37 PM
If chemical weapons have been dropped in Maruipol, they will be targetting civilians, as civilians are trapped there.  This should also be a red line for use against soldiers.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 11, 2022, 03:27:27 PM
Oh, and as for Americans training foreign soldiers, they trained Ukrainians. American military advisors is the reason the Ukrainian army is now professional.  I don’t think that makes this a proxy war, or an "American" war.  Russia invaded Ukraine.  Let's not forget that.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 03:43:27 PM


A French journalist went with a few others to enlist in the foreign legion. He reported it is being run by Americans and not Ukrainians. Straight up a US operation. Pat have you seen that news footage?


Foreign legion run by a foreigner...who'd have thought it ?


You do make me laugh. :rolleyes:
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 11, 2022, 03:50:25 PM
The Russians have pinned down a large portion of the Ukrainian army in the south, and any moving from the north will face death from above. Supply lines will get hit and without them they're as good as dead. Southern Ukraine is no longer Ukraine! Plenty of Russian flags going up on buildings... if you're reading MSM then you're probably getting a distorted view. A mix of Telegram channels will give a better picture.

Some analysts have stated the Russian troop movements in the north were a bluff so that they could more effectively perform their operations in the south. Once the south falls it's as good as game over.


Telegram accounts are not definitive proof of anything.  In fact, they are more distorted than MSM.


As for troop movements, what kind of an idiot military planner would sacrifice men and tanks for this? 


It's not game over unless the Russians kill everyone.  The amount of hatred they have sown is significant.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 04:00:50 PM
The Russians have pinned down a large portion of the Ukrainian army in the south, and any moving from the north will face death from above. Supply lines will get hit and without them they're as good as dead. Southern Ukraine is no longer Ukraine! Plenty of Russian flags going up on buildings... if you're reading MSM then you're probably getting a distorted view. A mix of Telegram channels will give a better picture.

Some analysts have stated the Russian troop movements in the north were a bluff so that they could more effectively perform their operations in the south. Once the south falls it's as good as game over.



The reports i'm hearing are that the Russian Orcs never reached Odesa,that they got their arses handed to them at Nikolaev,hence why they're hiding behind Kherson and firing missiles into Nikolaev from there,and that they're losing troops  hand over fist in the Kherson region,and with their Helicopters blown up on Kherson Airfield ( with plenty of footage available on that for your perusal ) as they desperately try to hang on there.


Sounds like Southern Ukraine is still Ukraine to me.



In 6 weeks 5 days Russia has taken 1 City,which they're struggling to hold onto..when you said they'd take the whole country in days.


You need to do better than that..you're starting to sound desperate.  :rolleyes:

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2022, 04:45:03 PM
rwd123,


          Just for you.


"Russian shelling has continued in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions,with Ukrainian Forces repulsing several assaults, resulting in the destruction of Russian Tanks,Vehicles and Artillery Equipment."


This is from the British Ministry of Defence Intelligence report for 11th April,,which will be rather more reliable than the comics you read,


You're welcome.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 11, 2022, 05:44:44 PM
The welcome Ukrainians have come to expect from the invaders. And rwd believes they will just turn into Russians overnight. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-soliders-rape/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10707933/Ukrainian-woman-raped-Chechen-soldier-slit-victims-throat-near-Kyiv.html

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2022, 05:50:40 PM
that was freakin clever of the Russians to do it in Mariupol
cuz ain't nobody gonna get a sample of the UAV sarin bomb out for independent analysis
I'd expect MORE to come
and I expect them to setup a production lab somewhere in occupied Ukraine
like they did in Syria
and switch to Novichok (see my previous lethality index post)
I'm a Scooby Doobie Novichok Newbie
and I've got Atropine eyes the size of dinner plates



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 11, 2022, 07:22:04 PM
http://youtu.be/N1vHCOD57Og

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka4ToCiAEyM
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 11, 2022, 07:36:12 PM
There is no operational benefit in targeting civilians with such weapons.

If you believe that, then you do not recognize the operation.

Ask yourself - what kind of operation would be benefited by targeting civilians?  Then you will see the operational benefit.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 11, 2022, 07:45:45 PM
There's no operational benefit in torturing and executing civilians, raping children and women, and looting and destroying homes, but that's all happening too.

Actually, there is benefit.  (Think of boxers - they try to get under the skin of their opponent so they react on emotion, instead of using their head.  Terror tactics take your opponent out of their right mind.) 

Ask yourself what kind of operation could be benefited by those things.  Then you will see the operational benefit.

Russia's GPD is expected to contract by 11% this year.
Ukraine's GPD is expected to contract 45%.
If you destroy the infrastructure and morale, their GDP will suffer for decades.  PTSD will not go away as soon as the war ends, regardless who wins.

What was the operational benefit of the Holodomor?  It broke the Ukrainian resistance to collective farming.

How long did Ukraine suffer the emotional after-effects of the Holodomor?  Does it still affect the psyche of Ukrainians?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 11, 2022, 07:50:24 PM
http://youtu.be/8RyhHptZmfA
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 11, 2022, 07:57:38 PM
I think if Ukraine was smart, they would start full-scale production of alcohol.  In some, put psycho-active drugs, especially ones which cause hallucinations and paranoia.  Let a few drunk Orcs attack everyone in their battalion. 

In other bottles, put poisons which cause blindness, or incapacitate soldiers.  Don't kill them though.  A dead soldier only removes one soldier from the battlefield.  A wounded soldier requires 2 more to take care of him - a wounded soldier removes 3 from the battlefield.  Or just make them so sick they can barely do anything.  True combat ineffective.

Stock stores in front line areas with these bottles of alcohol.  Do a tactical retreat, allowing the Russians to take the village.  Allow the Russians to do what Orcs do...loot and plunder and drink alcohol.  When they are sick and hallucinating, counter-attack and drive them back farther than when they began.

In central Italy, the Roman army nearly made honeybees go extinct.  They discovered that if they put a clay pot hive in a catapult and threw it at the enemy, it made a great weapon.  While it wouldn't kill the enemy, the stinging bees took a lot of the fight out of them.
The Ukrainians would be well served to find ways of taking the fight out of the Russians, even if they are non-lethal methods.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 11, 2022, 08:02:50 PM
The Russians have pinned down a large portion of the Ukrainian army in the south, and any moving from the north will face death from above. Supply lines will get hit and without them they're as good as dead. Southern Ukraine is no longer Ukraine! Plenty of Russian flags going up on buildings... if you're reading MSM then you're probably getting a distorted view. A mix of Telegram channels will give a better picture.

Some analysts have stated the Russian troop movements in the north were a bluff so that they could more effectively perform their operations in the south. Once the south falls it's as good as game over.

Boe - I'm not saying the Italian reporter is accurate, I have said it was inconclusive (but it's funny how it drops out of the news once it is reported). I've been pretty consistent in saying the first victim of war is the truth. Without an open mind one will fall back into personal biases.

I watch a mix of channels.
I've not seen anything that shows recent  Russian progress.
Weeks ago yes, all the way up.to Kirov rog areas .
Later pushed all.the way back.to kherson. They lost ton of ground north, completely, then lost a lot south.

They did seemingly make a bit of  headway back on the southbeast portions  yesterday and today  ,but nowhere near the amount they had made prior .really seems a few klicks at best.
The biggest points today  for Russia was the Russian defense ministry saying they took out some headquarters and a lot of equipment in.the donestk westetn region thru missle strikes.
If true that's significant.

They seem to have only   made a few streets progress in mariupol, time is on thier side there, so they dont need to.

If you are seeing flags raised in telegram, share the towns or villages  nsmes,I'd be interested, I'm.sure others would as well since we may have family members there



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2022, 08:08:08 PM
the gas target is the central heating system of Mariupol

see
http://mariupolrada.gov.ua/en/news/u-mariupoli-modernizujut-sistemu-teplopostachannja60ae230470849

these are a BUNCH of underground tunnels which are being used by the UA military for cover and movement
the gas is denser than air and will collect in the tunnels
since there aren't really too many intact tall buildings in  Mariupol, there's no place for anyone to hide in the city from gas (normally get to the roof of the tallest building)
and I doubt many people have CBW protective gear....

about 100 kg of A-232 will kill 50% of the people in a 1 km radius
so I can imagine a drone with a small bomb can "take-out" a city block or so...

since Odessa has maybe 30,000 armed citizens ready to take on invaders
I can imagine that use in Mariupol is just a prelude to Odessa and the catacombs

here's a pic from a central heating tunnel in Moscow
these were all built in Soviet period, and I've been in several in different Russian and Ukrainian cities
they all look the same
they used to be prime "rave" spots
damn, I miss the good ole days...



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 12, 2022, 04:37:41 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1594611/russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-latest-vladimir-putin-mariupol (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1594611/russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-latest-vladimir-putin-mariupol)

Putin testing the western response...
if it's OK to use in the UK and Europe in small quantities
then let's steadily increase the quantity in Ukraine
and see what happens


The UK's Armed Forces Minister James Heappey did not rule out that British or NATO Troops could be deployed in Ukraine if the Orcs used Chemical Weapons


When asked,when speaking on the radio today, whether he could rule out deploying British or NATO Troops on Ukrainian soil he replied "No,all options are on the table ".


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2022, 08:22:25 AM
There are basically two options for the RF army.
 
Put their troops in entrenched defensive positions to let the Ukrainian army attack, so it will reverse the attrition. 
And try to negotiate later on this basis. 
 
OR
 
From the entrenched defensive position, rebuild offensive forces and try to cut the bulk of the Ukrainian Donbass divisions as
they have already tried. 
The fact is, for the moment, they don't have such forces. Not enough armored forces, not enough skilled infantrymen. Or theseforces are being rebuilt and it takes time before they reach the southeast front. 


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 12, 2022, 08:37:22 AM
There are basically two options for the RF army.
 
Put their troops in entrenched defensive positions to let the Ukrainian army attack, so it will reverse the attrition. 
And try to negotiate later on this basis. 
 
OR
 
From the entrenched defensive position, rebuild offensive forces and try to cut the bulk of the Ukrainian Donbass divisions as
they have already tried. 
The fact is, for the moment, they don't have such forces. Not enough armored forces, not enough skilled infantrymen. Or theseforces are being rebuilt and it takes time before they reach the southeast front.


They have a third option..pack their s..t and go back to Dumpski.


The Ukrainian Forces in the East are used to Trench Warfare...they've been doing it for eight years...they'll just wear the Orcs out if they try to get into defensive positions.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2022, 08:43:14 AM
so...
dear friends,
it appears that over 100 FSB members of the "fifth directorate" responsible for Ukraine and other FSU regions have been purged
AND Vladislav Surkov who is a rabid anti-Ukrainian and former deputy prime minister has been arrested
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov
THIS is major...

haven't heard how this effects the GRU, usually when one branch falls, the other rises
the GRU organized shock battalions in the 2nd Chechen war and gave themselves the credit for victory
will they repeat
GRU is Novichok fluent

Disclaimer: I'm a Surkov "fanboy" when he writes under his pseudonym of Natan Dubovitsky
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2022, 09:44:54 AM
so...
dear friends,
it appears that over 100 FSB members of the "fifth directorate" responsible for Ukraine and other FSU regions have been purged
AND Vladislav Surkov who is a rabid anti-Ukrainian and former deputy prime minister has been arrested
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov)
THIS is major...

haven't heard how this effects the GRU, usually when one branch falls, the other rises
the GRU organized shock battalions in the 2nd Chechen war and gave themselves the credit for victory
will they repeat
GRU is Novichok fluent

Disclaimer: I'm a Surkov "fanboy" when he writes under his pseudonym of Natan Dubovitsky

What's your analysis of Surkov's arrest?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2022, 10:33:41 AM
"What's your analysis of Surkov's arrest? "

Those who KNOW don't SAY
and those who SAY don't KNOW
and besides, no one in Russia takes my calls anymore

but the purge flu seems to have infected a LOT of top-level siloviki (which is Putin's turf after all)
including Kostyukov, head of the GRU
looks like the Houston Gazprom office is closing and transfering GRU staff to Mexico
no more consulting work
later other segments of Russian government and industry will get sick as well
not healthy being there while Pootin is angry and in a rage
whenever someone displeases him, this is the usual result
but I've never heard of a Pootin rage-athon this big
I expect some extreme action to take place


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 12, 2022, 10:59:57 AM
including Kostyukov, head of the GRU
looks like the Houston Gazprom office is closing and transfering GRU staff to Mexico
no more consulting work

Hahaha you still find a way to my funny bone

Udachi!

Bill
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2022, 11:40:40 AM
"Hahaha you still find a way to my funny bone"

is that what you call IT?
I call mine "Mr. 11 inches"
cuz if it was an inch longer it'd be a foot!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2022, 01:00:16 PM
"What's your analysis of Surkov's arrest? "

Those who KNOW don't SAY
and those who SAY don't KNOW
and besides, no one in Russia takes my calls anymore

but the purge flu seems to have infected a LOT of top-level siloviki (which is Putin's turf after all)
including Kostyukov, head of the GRU
looks like the Houston Gazprom office is closing and transfering GRU staff to Mexico
no more consulting work
later other segments of Russian government and industry will get sick as well
not healthy being there while Pootin is angry and in a rage
whenever someone displeases him, this is the usual result
but I've never heard of a Pootin rage-athon this big
I expect some extreme action to take place
Lol it's because I don't know and I don't say that I ask  8)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Viktor Medvedchuk who was supposed to be Pootin's chosen figurehead to replace Zelensky, but this idea failed just like the rest of this special operation
he was just arrested after going into hiding



Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 12, 2022, 04:46:27 PM
http://saharareporters.com/2022/04/11/russian-soldier-arrested-after-filming-himself-raping-baby-ukraine

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-soldier-arrested-for-raping-baby-in-ukraine-after-sick-video/news-story/4369cbb9d8a92968b8ea8e1b093dada2
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2022, 07:13:16 PM
Russians deny this rape occured
they claim that this was consensual
and just go ahead and TRY to slap ME for this joke Will!!!

meanwhile...

Rosa Mira

What IF
Russia’s disastrous invasion of Ukraine
was deliberately engineered to fail


and lastly, I believe that if the messiah was ever gonna show up
he'd have been here by now
the world lost it's groove a long time ago
and it's gonna be all downhill from now on

abandon all the illusions
and the doors of perception will open
and  a magician can become a king
if I were Pootin, I'd kill Surkov instead of leaving him in jail

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 13, 2022, 02:04:20 AM
An Italian journalist has disclosed the serial number on the missile that hit the train station. It's reported that it is a Ukrainian missile... aaand the west goes silent on that one.

I looked into this.  The markings suggest the missle was a Tochka-U class.  The serial number the Italian journalist referred to is from the factory, and was applied to all rocket shells at the  JSC Votkinsk Machine Building Plant (Воткинский завод) in Russia.  That factory has produced missiles since 1957.  All missiles from that factory bear that particular serial number, whether those missiles are launched from Russia, Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Syria, Yemen, or North Korea.  Russia claims they do not use the Tochka-U class missile.  However, on April 8, a Tochka-U missile was shot down over Chernihiv by Ukraine. That missile had been launched by the Russians from Belarus.  According to Amnesty International's Crisis Evidence Lab, a Tochka missile was launched by Russia on an aid distribution point in Vuhledar on February 24, killing four. 

Missiles from that same series were used by Russia in Syria, including on an oil refinery in Aleppo.  Russian media was full of reports of this strike.

Bottom line is, this wasn't a Ukrainian missile.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 13, 2022, 06:41:29 AM
I looked into this.  The markings suggest the missle was a Tochka-U class.  The serial number the Italian journalist referred to is from the factory, and was applied to all rocket shells at the  JSC Votkinsk Machine Building Plant (Воткинский завод) in Russia.  That factory has produced missiles since 1957.  All missiles from that factory bear that particular serial number, whether those missiles are launched from Russia, Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Syria, Yemen, or North Korea.  Russia claims they do not use the Tochka-U class missile.  However, on April 8, a Tochka-U missile was shot down over Chernihiv by Ukraine. That missile had been launched by the Russians from Belarus.  According to Amnesty International's Crisis Evidence Lab, a Tochka missile was launched by Russia on an aid distribution point in Vuhledar on February 24, killing four. 

Missiles from that same series were used by Russia in Syria, including on an oil refinery in Aleppo.  Russian media was full of reports of this strike.

Bottom line is, this wasn't a Ukrainian missile.
I believe the  number is designation numbers,  the serial numbers I think are stamped not painted.

You won't typical  have a 5 of 6 digot serial.number armaments in any military

If you look at the list of Ukrainian missles and thier numbers listed,  in that referenced article none of them have any real bearing on.anything but place of manufacturer .

That article premise is suspect at best.

In addition no same person creating a false flag paints a message on a missiles body ,but leaves a painted serial number that would distinguish who fired it.

Also, I saw that someone  faked a BBC article on exactly this.
Going to.the.trouble  of faking a BBC report to try and  legitimize the info is a pretty good indicator its completely false
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 13, 2022, 06:47:46 AM
Viktor Medvedchuk who was supposed to be Pootin's chosen figurehead to replace Zelensky, but this idea failed just like the rest of this special operation
he was just arrested after going into hiding

Wasn't he put under house arrest previously?

Buying and selling coal.from.donbass?

Being a political.opposition leader with 13 or so percent of people's vote, I do find the jailing ,wether house or cell,of opposition as something Ukrainians leadership  shouldn't be doing.

It looks bad no matter hoe you slice it to me.

The charges are what?
What were they prior?

I'm obviously pro Ukraine, but these type of things look exactly like what putin does  in the world view.

Unless making it much more clear what the prior offense was,and current one is.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 13, 2022, 07:37:49 AM
yes, Google is your friend....
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 13, 2022, 01:01:22 PM
yes, Google is your friend....

Lol! RT.NEWS?

It was questions.

I simply never heard the actual charges/reasons for his prior or current arrests.

Or if it ever made a hearing,a trial or any judicially procedure previously.


I'm no fan of the guy,was just pointing out it looks bad *if*  any administration imprisons  opponents without due cause or  clear explanation of charges filed.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Looks like Mariupol is about to be taken over by Russia, I'm surprised they've managed to hold out so long, dove remarkably well considering.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-60894476

May not look good for the guy in question if he got to surrender as it may not do for those that do:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/13/aiden-aslin-british-fight-ukraine-mariupol/

Looks like the Russians were trying to draw out his unit into attacking them so they could get at them more easily by attacking civilian targets. In the end though lack of supplies over time seem to have been their main enemy. Being surrounded and cut off though there was no hope of that.

Mariupol is one city that will likely not be easy to recover soon, retaking Kherson will likely be an easier target for Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 13, 2022, 02:42:54 PM
he's so close to Putin that he was one of the first sanctioned over Crimea by the Obama admininstration in 2014

"Medvedchuk is also being designated because he has materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support to Yanukovych and because he is a leader of an entity that has, or whose members have, engaged in actions or policies that undermine democratic processes or institutions in Ukraine and actions or policies that threaten the peace, security, stability, sovereignty, or territorial integrity of Ukraine."

it would take me WAY too long to write out his specific activities of theft and treason and treason and theft
he'd been under house arrest for around a year, and decided to leave....
bad choice

I would't worry too much over the "optics"
lawyers in my opinion, have a natural ability for defusing IEDs and clearing land mines
perhaps he should be employed this way as a form of "community service" to pay off his debt to Ukrainian society
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 13, 2022, 03:05:59 PM
Partial list of USA aid to Ukraine, does not include additional aid pledged in the past week.

http://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2992414/fact-sheet-us-security-assistance-to-ukraine/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 14, 2022, 12:42:36 AM
photo of the new underwater cruiser  ;D


Putin commented the news: "Moskva has not sank, it is a special underwater operation"
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 14, 2022, 12:00:02 PM
Another update from Wali, the Canadian sniper.

http://m.facebook.com/1411163505845340/posts/2745725749055769/

Translation:

The battle for Kyiv ended in victory. It is the greatest Russian defeat in decades.

I am not in Kyiv anymore. We are already positioned to hit the next Russian reinforcements. We have heavy equipment able to pulverize Russian armor.

Russians are afraid of Ukrainians. As soon as clashes become serious, they abandon their vehicles and run away. We are making jokes about this, pretending that Russian reinforcements are in fact supply convoys for the Ukrainian army.

Faith and Fight

Wali

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 14, 2022, 12:55:22 PM
It would be REALLY stoopid of master strategist Vlad Pootin, to just repeat the strategy of the first failed assault and expect a different outcome this time…

one of the missing elements of this war has been Russian air power
if it were the USA doing this, before a single ground unit moved, there would’ve been a MASSIVE air assault, THEN the ground assault….

there’s no surprise element involved here now, Ukrainians know what’s coming and where
so it’s not like he doesn’t want to “telegraph” his plans

Pootin has hundreds of the OLD TU-95s, that fly above the range of western supplied shoulder-launched missiles and these can carpet bomb Ukrainian positions in front of him

he has the MOAB, Mother Of ALL Bombs, a giant thermobaric bomb that has a 400 meter kill radius

after studying the response of the USA in regards to poison gas in Syria, I’m sure he realizes that if he uses gas in areas where samples can’t be sent to the west, there won’t really be much of a response

personally, I don’t think there are ANY red lines in Ukraine drawn by NATO
they are happy just to sit back and let Ukrainians do the dirty work without risk to themselves
this pretty much gives Pooty Poot carte blanche
he has too much to lose to use restraint
so this time, the gloves come off and it’s gonna be a dirty fight
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 14, 2022, 01:09:26 PM
I think the risk with that, is, they take Ukraine, and then what?  Are they going to trade with China and India?  Vacation on the shores of Phuket?  Buy fake guccis from Shanghai? 


The reality is that Russia will be isolated for a decade if they continue this war.  The countries that will be willing to trade with them won't increase the Russian standard of living. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 14, 2022, 01:30:45 PM
It would be REALLY stoopid of master strategist Vlad Pootin, to just repeat the strategy of the first failed assault and expect a different outcome this time…

one of the missing elements of this war has been Russian air power
if it were the USA doing this, before a single ground unit moved, there would’ve been a MASSIVE air assault, THEN the ground assault….

there’s no surprise element involved here now, Ukrainians know what’s coming and where
so it’s not like he doesn’t want to “telegraph” his plans

Pootin has hundreds of the OLD TU-95s, that fly above the range of western supplied shoulder-launched missiles and these can carpet bomb Ukrainian positions in front of him

he has the MOAB, Mother Of ALL Bombs, a giant thermobaric bomb that has a 400 meter kill radius

after studying the response of the USA in regards to poison gas in Syria, I’m sure he realizes that if he uses gas in areas where samples can’t be sent to the west, there won’t really be much of a response

personally, I don’t think there are ANY red lines in Ukraine drawn by NATO
they are happy just to sit back and let Ukrainians do the dirty work without risk to themselves
this pretty much gives Pooty Poot carte blanche
he has too much to lose to use restraint
so this time, the gloves come off and it’s gonna be a dirty fight

If* he has good Intel,  then lessons learned early in this should completely change tactics.

As is,  having  the Moscva off and on flirting within range of Neptune's (which allegedly where attempted on it early on and repelled).shows a  lack of him.getting good info.

So is he surrounded with yes men that when wrong ,, fall out of perfectly good helicopters?
Or sent to.the snipers of Ukraine?

To think Russia while sharimg a culture and business ties with ukrainev had such bad understanding of:
1. Ukraine and the general* populace
2. Ukrainian military buildup and on hand munitions as well as  high tech weapons
3.military strategy Ukraine might employ
4. Their own militaries lack of logistical ability

While openly building up a mass of troops makes me wonder how inept their intel.is and if he could change his entire related staff if it would help.

They recently put the same guy in charge of the entire operation ,that was previously commander of the  southern units.

I know from first hand accounts they botched amphibious attack on nikolaev from their own errors .and failure to wait for better weather
So the guy in charge of those units is leading the entire thing now. If he is the best they have  well  then carpet bombing is thier best chance


The thermobaric is scary, really scary.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 14, 2022, 01:36:37 PM
The Russian implosion will lead to a “closed society” similar to the Stalin era, this process is already underway…

Russia will pivot to China, they will switch roles and Russia will be the junior partner, a resource colony while Europe will transition away from Russian energy

Pootin will continue the incremental acquisition of Ukraine, expand to taking all of Southern Ukraine, cutting off access to Black Sea

Ukraine has already lost 50% of its economy, it will lose more, Russia will be like a giant boa constrictor squeezing the life out of Ukraine, west will tire of the cost of supporting it
and then Russia will swallow Ukraine

occupation of Ukraine is easy
seal off all borders, Berlin-wall style, public executions of partisans, informants EVERYWHERE
mass surveillance
impose puppet government

“The countries that will be willing to trade with them won't increase the Russian standard of living.”

Then I guess the standard of living is gonna fall!!! Yalky Palky

Russia's population is 4 million below the level of 1991 at the breakup of the CCCP
huge number of young people fleeing, so now Russia is trying to halt the exodus

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 14, 2022, 03:09:12 PM
It would be REALLY stoopid of master strategist Vlad Pootin, to just repeat the strategy of the first failed assault and expect a different outcome this time…

one of the missing elements of this war has been Russian air power
if it were the USA doing this, before a single ground unit moved, there would’ve been a MASSIVE air assault, THEN the ground assault….

there’s no surprise element involved here now, Ukrainians know what’s coming and where
so it’s not like he doesn’t want to “telegraph” his plans

Pootin has hundreds of the OLD TU-95s, that fly above the range of western supplied shoulder-launched missiles and these can carpet bomb Ukrainian positions in front of him

he has the MOAB, Mother Of ALL Bombs, a giant thermobaric bomb that has a 400 meter kill radius

after studying the response of the USA in regards to poison gas in Syria, I’m sure he realizes that if he uses gas in areas where samples can’t be sent to the west, there won’t really be much of a response

personally, I don’t think there are ANY red lines in Ukraine drawn by NATO
they are happy just to sit back and let Ukrainians do the dirty work without risk to themselves
this pretty much gives Pooty Poot carte blanche
he has too much to lose to use restraint
so this time, the gloves come off and it’s gonna be a dirty fight


If that happens the best thing for Ukrainian forces right across the country would be to withdraw and leave the country...with their many weapons given by the west.


The surviving Ukrainian population should all leave too..leaving just the pro-Russian ethnic population remaining.


Then they can form terrorist groups/saboteurs to strike right into the heart of Moscow and St Petersburg...blowing up train stations.apartment blocks,office blocks,police stations , Government buildings and infrastructure and generally spreading carnage and terror among the Orc  population.


The Chechens did it but they had a country which Russia could retaliate on...the Ukrainians won't have that problem, until Putin and his Orcs are brought to their knees.


All those anti-tank missiles will be handy for drive-bye's and hitting troop Barracks.

All those Mines left behind in Ukraine by the Orcs will be useful to use in Russia too.

There will be so many of these saboteurs striking from different countries,the Orcs won't know where to look next.


Will it be safe to open that door,or switch on your car Engine,or switch on that light ?


Russia would become a country living in fear...in a real war of attrition with people they don't know where they will strike next.


Destroy Russia from within as they will have destroyed Ukraine from without.


Ukrainians are very capable of fighting dirty too.


Do you think Putin doesn't realize this ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 14, 2022, 03:30:14 PM

If that happens the best thing for Ukrainian forces right across the country would be to withdraw and leave the country...with their many weapons given by the west.


The surviving Ukrainian population should all leave too..leaving just the pro-Russian ethnic population remaining.

Withdraw and leave to where ???
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 14, 2022, 03:33:41 PM
If you are seeing flags raised in telegram, share the towns or villages  nsmes,I'd be interested, I'm.sure others would as well since we may have family members there
I saw a video purporting flags raised in Beryslav a few days ago. I read Alyoshki today but no evidence was provided.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 14, 2022, 03:44:19 PM
Withdraw and leave to where ???


Where have all the millions of current Ukrainian refugees gone to ?


The tactics that Krim is suggesting Putin uses there won't be many survivors anyway.but enough to blend into Europe then pay Russia back in spades.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 14, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Pootin will continue the incremental acquisition of Ukraine, expand to taking all of Southern Ukraine, cutting off access to Black Sea

Ukraine has already lost 50% of its economy, it will lose more, Russia will be like a giant boa constrictor squeezing the life out of Ukraine, west will tire of the cost of supporting it
and then Russia will swallow Ukraine
The ol' goat clearly hasn't lost his marbles like Biden.

Once the Russians take out the Ukrainian forces in the east (~50,000) they will march toward Transnistria and lay siege to Odessa. They'll keep it largely in tact like the Germans did with Leningrad - it is a prize. Complete control the southern front and supply lines.

Then all it will take is forces from Belarus to cut off supply lines in the west and it's goodnight nurse. I've heard Zhytomyr but they may go as far as Lviv. No need to assault Kyiv. If it's true that the Russian troop movements in the Kyiv region were to split/reduce troops in the east then that was a masterly move.

The Russian economy will contract but that will happen globally. Most of Asia, which includes the Middle East will continue to trade with Russia (as will large parts of Africa and Latin America). The world will become divided again. The difference however is that the east have the ongoing economic (and military) power over the west, which was the opposite of the Cold War. Europe's financial state is far more precarious than what most people realize.

Oh and in other news - a British soldier captured, an American one killed by Chechen forces, and allegedly an American General has been captured too (I saw video of FSB agents but the man's face was blurred). Pat - how many Frenchmen are holding out in Mariupol...?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 14, 2022, 03:54:46 PM
How's your over in days war going Master Strategist ?


Seven weeks and counting later. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 14, 2022, 04:01:43 PM
I saw a video purporting flags raised in Beryslav a few days ago. I read Alyoshki today but no evidence was provided.
Ok.thanks.

Beryslav makes sense as a couple days back.they made pushes towards there,but essentially they controlled everything  south of there most of this conflict .
So  if they gained beryslav directly across the river its important  they crossed, but again they simply went a couple klicks across the.river,that's not a huge advance by any stretch.


Alyoshki.I'm not familiar with and don't see it


They lost.ground yesterday in izum.area and a convoy ax well.as a pontoon bridge.
They had a bridge in Russia damaged by an Ukrainian unit.

They lost moscva as well which is sig ificant om its antiship.and anti air cover it provided for the rest of the fleet.
That will.still.exist from.crimea etc,but it still a big loss and will change the level.of risk thoer naval ships are exposed to.

I dont think.amything is really going well.for them.overall at this point from. a military standpoint .

They lost kyis accomplished little to.nothing.
 They lost the initial.advance from.the south as far as offensive and had to fall.back.to.the two cities they took.of melitpol and kherson.

They lost the nikolaev airport which they held briefly.

They lost a cruiser .

They  fell back.to regroup which allows the defense to.regroup and fortify.

Instead of keeping thf ukranian military moving under attack.they had to move and reposition thousands of troops .

Their next offensive may be effective,time will.tell.

They also  did beat* the fins in the winter war,if one considers that a victory.
They did gain ground.

This may end up similar.






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 14, 2022, 04:31:00 PM
"The ol' goat clearly hasn't lost his marbles like Biden."

Roosevelt was a cripple
but he kicked Hitler's and Hirahito's asses so hard they were wearing hats

Biden has a speech impediment
but his commands are kicking Pootin's ass and now that "Preparation H" is sanctioned, he's really feelin the pain

if this is a proxy war against NATO
then just look at Russia's losses vrs NATO's

and you think Pootin HASN'T lost his marbles?
out of curioiity, how many marbles do YOU have?

"Then all it will take is forces from Belarus to cut off supply lines in the west"

they don't seem to be in too much of a hurry to do this, despite all the pressure from Russia

This photo is one I took of a Russian Tarantul class corvette pre-war
at the time I was doing research on Radars :)

BTW, do ya know how the Moscva was sunk?
The main Moscva radar, works ONLY in a 180 degree arc
Ukrainians flew an aerial decoy just out of missile range, for the Russians to point their radar at it
then fired their cruise missiles at it from the blind spot
secondary radars won’t pick up sea-skimming cruise missiles
see what happens when your intelligence service is TRYING to help you win








Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 14, 2022, 08:32:22 PM
Alyoshki.I'm not familiar with and don't see it
It's near Kherson.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 14, 2022, 08:45:29 PM
Roosevelt was a cripple
but he kicked Hitler's and Hirahito's asses so hard they were wearing hats
I'll take a man with no legs over a man with no brains. The "laptop from hell" resurfaced because regime change is coming to the USA.

Apparently the last oil refinery in Ukraine was destroyed last night. Hard to run a military on no gas. Hey Pat - does France still have a cavalry? Ukraine may need one!

Unconfirmed reports of child soldiers recruited in Ukraine (images/video available but not verifiable). Pitting kids against Spetsnaz? If true the Zelensky regime is truly despicable.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 14, 2022, 09:46:50 PM
Ukraine doesn’t recruit those under 18. The irregular forces in the rebel held territories of Donetsk do. They take 15 year olds.

http://tinyurl.com/3af3yztw
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 14, 2022, 09:56:17 PM
The "laptop from hell" resurfaced because regime change is coming to the USA.

Nope. It’s about the midterm elections. Raising Hunter Biden is like waiving a red cape in front of a bull.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 15, 2022, 12:45:02 AM


Apparently the last oil refinery in Ukraine was destroyed last night. Hard to run a military on no gas. Hey Pat - does France still have a cavalry? Ukraine may need one!



Plenty of gas available for Ukrainian Forces to use.


All those abandoned Russian military vehicles everywhere in Ukraine,where your Orc heroes ran,will have plenty of gas for the Ukrainians to use.


Whenever the Ukrainians hear about fresh Orc convoys arriving in Ukraine they say "Oh good..fresh supplies for us ". >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 15, 2022, 04:44:33 AM
Ukraine doesn’t recruit those under 18. The irregular forces in the rebel held territories of Donetsk do. They take 15 year olds.
Well allegedly they are. And it is appalling if those in Donetsk are doing so.

It's also reported six Georgians and up to 30 Poles have been killed in fighting, and NATO personnel are now prisoners. No mention of nationalities.

Oh, and Boe "your boys" have been very naughty boys in Mariupol, apparently Ukrainian military have bound and executed civilians. ALL militaries commit war crimes and if you think otherwise you have one eye closed.

http://youtu.be/-2qiqpMN6dM



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 15, 2022, 06:38:00 AM
"The "laptop from hell" resurfaced because regime change is coming to the USA."

Hunter's Laptop = Hillary's Emails
and by resurfaced, I assume you mean "fabricated"
and if that's your basis for regime change, then I feel really sorry for you....

my man,
you don’t seem to understand,
if Russians fill the sky with so many missiles, that it blots out the sun…
then Ukrainians will just fight in the shade
horrosho?




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 15, 2022, 07:42:54 AM
Well allegedly they are. And it is appalling if those in Donetsk are doing so.

It's also reported six Georgians and up to 30 Poles have been killed in fighting, and NATO personnel are now prisoners. No mention of nationalities.

Oh, and Boe "your boys" have been very naughty boys in Mariupol, apparently Ukrainian military have bound and executed civilians. ALL militaries commit war crimes and if you think otherwise you have one eye closed.

http://youtu.be/-2qiqpMN6dM

You posted that alledegdly a big portion of ukraines army was pinned down in the south.
There is still  zero evidence of this at all days later..


 You posted That Ukraine  was no longer Ukraine, just a couple days ago.
Still seems to be Ukraine.

The follow up  you gave was to verify a village across a river from.positions the Russian troops were pushed 100 kilometers back to , was taken back by ,Russia, and an  unverified village near Kherson, (which they had also been pushed back to)

So relinquishing 100 kilometers across a 600 kilometer conflict line, then retaking 5 kilometers in a couple of spots ( while losing similar  villages on the eastern side )
 is noteworthy?
and Ukraine is no longer Ukraine?

There is no surprise poles are fighting there, we all know some Americans and Canadians are also.  Alledgedly, they arnt connected to their governments military.
 Russia using troops from.ossetia, Syria and Chechnya  is not hidden at all right?so
If* Ukraine wins they should immediately attack all three countries(independent republics)? Yes or no?
 

I don't doubt atrocities towards civilians on both sides in Mariupol.

I also dont need to spin a failed offensive towards kyiv as some strategic master.stroke

Since troops were not positioned to and  did not immediately go on a big offensive in the east,that's a pile of malarkey

That being careful about bias comment I agree with and try to think  about daily.
Maybe you should as well.



 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on April 15, 2022, 10:11:11 AM
I'll take a man with no legs over a man with no brains. The "laptop from hell" resurfaced because regime change is coming to the USA.

Apparently the last oil refinery in Ukraine was destroyed last night. Hard to run a military on no gas. Hey Pat - does France still have a cavalry? Ukraine may need one!

Unconfirmed reports of child soldiers recruited in Ukraine (images/video available but not verifiable). Pitting kids against Spetsnaz? If true the Zelensky regime is truly despicable.

From an American on the ground in Ukraine; "Russia has been bribing Ukrainian children, groomed online, to act as spotters for them, convincing them that they won’t get in trouble because they’re children."

Source: http://sofrep.com/news/ukraine-sitrep-for-april-13th/

Your comment about it being "despicable" is true enough, though your attribution for these despicable acts is entirely off-base.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 15, 2022, 10:25:07 AM
Well allegedly they are. And it is appalling if those in Donetsk are doing so.

I have seen no reports of such.  Care to provide a link from a non Russian source?

No, I didn't think so.

BTW, in Donetsk, young men are dragged off streets to be taken to fight.

Quote
It's also reported six Georgians and up to 30 Poles have been killed in fighting, and NATO personnel are now prisoners. No mention of nationalities.

I doubt that "NATO" personnel are prisoners.  If foreigners decide to fight for one side or another, that's their choice.  I know that there are Canadians fighting in Ukraine.  They are private citizens who have chosen to do so.  They are not there with government backing.

Quote
Oh, and Boe "your boys" have been very naughty boys in Mariupol, apparently Ukrainian military have bound and executed civilians. ALL militaries commit war crimes and if you think otherwise you have one eye closed.

http://youtu.be/-2qiqpMN6dM (http://youtu.be/-2qiqpMN6dM)

They are not "my boys".  "My boys" are Canadian. 

So civilians were killed by mortar shells.  Civilians in war zones are going to be killed.  But that's very different from targeting civilians in cars, or shooting them.  White armbands are used by Russian soldiers.  Again, I would not consider that a targeting of civilians.  That's a far cry from shooting civilians with their arms up when they exit vehicles, lining civilians up, torturing them, and shooting them in the head, raping women and children, and killing anyone encountered, or putting children on tanks so Ukrainian forces don't fire on those tanks. That's all been done, the latter, witnessed by my relatives.

If Ukrainian forces are targeting civilians, they should be punished.

Some information on the reporting of "journalist" Patrick Lancaster, who only reports from Russian controlled territories:

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/02/28/exploiting-cadavers-and-faked-ieds-experts-debunk-staged-pre-war-provocation-in-the-donbas/ (http://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/02/28/exploiting-cadavers-and-faked-ieds-experts-debunk-staged-pre-war-provocation-in-the-donbas/)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 15, 2022, 12:06:38 PM
Ukrainians certainly are not recruiting or using children as soldiers.

In fact, there are far more adult aged men in Ukraine who have volunteered to join, but have been told to wait because there is not enough rifles, etc.  to go around at this point.

No shortage of adult fighters in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 15, 2022, 01:03:35 PM
Here rwd. Here’s what your people suggest.

http://mobile.twitter.com/lttimmcmillan/status/1515054046847156236?s=21&t=at0kUBDokns5yllMsPPzJQ

Meanwhile, Putin and his propagandists claim there’s no such thing as a Ukrainian.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 15, 2022, 01:23:15 PM
I am fairly skeptical of intercepted calls posted online by Ukrainian officials. On more than one occasion, the accents sound Ukrainian, though they could be from Donetsk. However, the parties in this snippet have been positively identified and named.

Now tell me Russia isn’t committing war crimes.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=-y-H5N3iF_s&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 15, 2022, 02:15:37 PM
Now tell me Russia isn’t committing war crimes.
ALL militaries commit war crimes and if you think otherwise you have one eye closed.
Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

War is hell. BOTH sides are responsible. I want hostilities to end ASAP for the good of the people. This is a war that is likely to either end with a Russian "victory" or nukes. The USA can walk away from Ukraine, Russia won't. Same goes for Taiwan/China. Uncle Sam is happy for others to kill each other while Raytheon, Boeing and others receive a nice pay day.

This is turning into World War 3. Nobody should be cheerleading for greater conflict. I just read Russia has used its long range bombers for the first time (on 14th April). Is the US prepared to step up the firepower to the same degree? It's nuts. A regional disaster is unfolding into a global disaster.

NATO personnel were already working in Ukraine pre-conflict.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on April 15, 2022, 02:21:54 PM
Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

War is hell. BOTH sides are responsible. I want hostilities to end ASAP for the good of the people. This is a war that is likely to either end with a Russian "victory" or nukes. The USA can walk away from Ukraine, Russia won't. Same goes for Taiwan/China. Uncle Sam is happy for others to kill each other while Raytheon, Boeing and others receive a nice pay day.

This is turning into World War 3. Nobody should be cheerleading for greater conflict. I just read Russia has used its long range bombers for the first time (on 14th April). Is the US prepared to step up the firepower to the same degree? It's nuts. A regional disaster is unfolding into a global disaster.

NATO personnel were already working in Ukraine pre-conflict.
Nope. Only one side is responsible and their colours aren’t yellow and blue.
For someone who wants the conflict to stop you sure are a cheerleader for the wrong side.
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 15, 2022, 03:29:14 PM
Nope. Only one side is responsible and their colours aren’t yellow and blue.
For someone who wants the conflict to stop you sure are a cheerleader for the wrong side.
 :rolleyes:

rwd is trying to hide his support for the orcs, but I have to say it is badly done, so just stop pretending putinlover.

THIS is the Orcs, if anyone still believes this is Putins war, no this is Russia in its essence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y-H5N3iF_s

I have been listening for two almost three hours to two journalists from Ukraine who works with helping collecting and documenting evidence of war crimes in north Kyiv and the famous suburbs, intervju residents and taking pictures.
I feel sick to my stomach now and I don't know if I will be able to get these mental images out of my head for a long time, what we have seen on TV and social media, it's the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 15, 2022, 04:25:18 PM
Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

War is hell. BOTH sides are responsible. I want hostilities to end ASAP for the good of the people. This is a war that is likely to either end with a Russian "victory" or nukes. The USA can walk away from Ukraine, Russia won't. Same goes for Taiwan/China. Uncle Sam is happy for others to kill each other while Raytheon, Boeing and others receive a nice pay day.

This is turning into World War 3. Nobody should be cheerleading for greater conflict. I just read Russia has used its long range bombers for the first time (on 14th April). Is the US prepared to step up the firepower to the same degree? It's nuts. A regional disaster is unfolding into a global disaster.

NATO personnel were already working in Ukraine pre-conflict.


Both sides are not responsible.  Ukraine did not invade Russia.  Russia invaded Ukraine.  Boeing, Raytheon, etc., would not have received any "pay day" if V. Putin had not decided to invade a sovereign nation.  Is this really so difficult to comprehend?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 16, 2022, 12:52:08 AM
It would be REALLY stoopid of master strategist Vlad Pootin, to just repeat the strategy of the first failed assault and expect a different outcome this time…

one of the missing elements of this war has been Russian air power
if it were the USA doing this, before a single ground unit moved, there would’ve been a MASSIVE air assault, THEN the ground assault….

there’s no surprise element involved here now, Ukrainians know what’s coming and where
so it’s not like he doesn’t want to “telegraph” his plans

Pootin has hundreds of the OLD TU-95s, that fly above the range of western supplied shoulder-launched missiles and these can carpet bomb Ukrainian positions in front of him

he has the MOAB, Mother Of ALL Bombs, a giant thermobaric bomb that has a 400 meter kill radius

after studying the response of the USA in regards to poison gas in Syria, I’m sure he realizes that if he uses gas in areas where samples can’t be sent to the west, there won’t really be much of a response

personally, I don’t think there are ANY red lines in Ukraine drawn by NATO
they are happy just to sit back and let Ukrainians do the dirty work without risk to themselves
this pretty much gives Pooty Poot carte blanche
he has too much to lose to use restraint
so this time, the gloves come off and it’s gonna be a dirty fight

Indeed Krim, I was really astonished that Pootin didn't hammer Ukrainian forces with Airpower as a first act before the first tank even rolled over the border. I expected him to hit all Ukrainian Airfields, Oil refineries & depots, supply points, and non nuclear power plants and especially any Ukrainian ground troops he could get at least through planes and missiles. Even if it meant losing many planes I expected him to do that just to knock out any Ukrainian air power, even if it meant flying planes into western Ukraine and ditching them due to not having enough fuel to get back if that were the case.

I also expected Pootin to attack all of Ukraine in one go, to attack down towards Lviv to cut off land border supply routes, etc. To attack out off the eastern edge of Moldova even if it meant just stationing poor quality troops there to garrison that region. He missed trying to encircle Odessa and cutting off land routes along the Moldova border, etc.

The whole operation had the hallmarks of being a complete balls up. It looks like master strategist Pootin took control and did a Hitler, didn't listen to sound military advice and decided he knew better, did it his way and fluffed the whole thing up. Had he done it how we thought it would go down I think Ukrainians would have been feeling the pinch a lot more then they have been so they have been lucky that master strategist Pootin decided to take control of strategy in order to satisfy his ego I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 16, 2022, 06:14:55 AM
Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

rwd, are you Ukrainian?
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 16, 2022, 03:30:27 PM
Note: If I post something here, do not assume that I agree with things in the report.
I posted links so that you can read it in it's entirety and make up your own mind. I
advise reading from several different sources.


Russian state TV declares World War Three has started after sinking of Moskva
"Olga Skabeyeva, one of Vladimir Putin’s leading propagandists, told viewers Western
support for Ukraine amounted to direct conflict with Russia, saying:
‘What it’s escalated into can safely be called World War Three.
That’s entirely for sure."
http://metro.co.uk/2022/04/15/ukraine-russian-state-tv-warns-world-war-three-has-already-begun-16472787/


Maybe they should have thought of this during the Korean and
Vietnam wars?
Russia warns U.S. against further arming Ukraine
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-warns-us-arming-ukraine/


Words mean things unless you are on the far left.
Zelenskiy reportedly asks Biden to name Russia a state sponsor of terrorism
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2022/apr/15/joe-biden-russia-ukraine-putin-us-politics-live-latest


Putin’s Ukraine Gamble Pivots to a Very Different Battlefield
http://dnyuz.com/2022/04/16/putins-ukraine-gamble-pivots-to-a-very-different-battlefield/


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 16, 2022, 03:46:20 PM

Both sides are not responsible.  Ukraine did not invade Russia.  Russia invaded Ukraine.  Boeing, Raytheon, etc., would not have received any "pay day" if V. Putin had not decided to invade a sovereign nation.  Is this really so difficult to comprehend?
Is is really so difficult to comprehend that the Ukrainian government:
Let's change the situation while somewhat keeping the context. Iran decides to create official government policy to retake Palestinian territories by force, wants to join a Arab military alliance, develop nuclear weapons with related delivery systems, and had plans to launch an offensive. Do you think Israel would stand by and do nothing?

I am not advocating Russia's actions but can view their perspective. Similarly, I can view the Azov perspective but not be an advocate of their actions. I advocate for de-escalation and negotiated peace, but the Zelensky regime will not negotiate only surrender... at the cost of how many lives?

It amazes me the lack of pragmatism of those in power. I can understand they are out of touch with the plight of the common man but the sheer ignorance of their actions is incredible. If not for Biden the Europeans would take gold, silver and bronze for incompetence.

In other news -
A friendly community announcement, if you resort to school yard name calling I make a note of your username and ignore all of your posts. If you can't have an adult conversation then go outside and play.

Sadly I think we may be past the point of de-escalation. It's either a global Cold War 2 or World War 3 at this point.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 16, 2022, 04:15:49 PM
Is is really so difficult to comprehend that the Ukrainian government:
Had official policy to retake Crimea by force;

Did they implement that policy?  Were there skirmishes on any part of the border with Crimea?   Was it a threat to Russia?  ::crickets::

I have relatives who, up until early February, crossed that border frequently.  The first time you cross, on either side, is an arduous process, with searches of all bags.  After that, it's easy and quick, every time.

Quote
Wanted to officially join NATO (and was already de facto NATO given the level of support);

So what?  Is Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, not entitled to join whatever military organization it wishes?

NATO, incidentally, is a defensive organization. 

Quote
Stated that it was considering acquiring nuclear weapons and delivery systems

As well it should, given its neighbourhood.  There would be no invasion today if Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes in the past, with guarantees of security, breached by everyone.

Quote
According to the Russian government was planning a major offensive in Donbass.
You mean the same Russian government that claims:

1.  The Moskva was destroyed in a storm?
2.  It hasn't invaded Ukraine?
3.  That Ukraine trained migratory birds to carry bioweapons?
4.  That they hadn't bombed hospitals, apartment buildings, and other civilian targets?

I could go on.
Quote
Let's change the situation while somewhat keeping the context. Iran decides to create official government policy to retake Palestinian territories by force, wants to join a Arab military alliance, develop nuclear weapons with related delivery systems, and had plans to launch an offensive. Do you think Israel would stand by and do nothing?

Iran would never help the Palestinians, who are Sunni Muslims.  The additional flaw in your analogy is that Ukraine is an INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGN NATION.  It, and it alone, gets to decide what happens on Ukrainian territory.  Let's turn this around.  What if Ukraine, with thousands of US missiles and unlimited military hardware, decided to launch an offensive on Russian soil - bomb Moscow to oblivion, send tanks and troops to the heart of Russia, rape women and children, shoot civilians indiscriminately.  Would that be justified?

Quote
I am not advocating Russia's actions but can view their perspective. Similarly, I can view the Azov perspective but not be an advocate of their actions. I advocate for de-escalation and negotiated peace, but the Zelensky regime will not negotiate only surrender... at the cost of how many lives?

No, the Ukrainians have said all along they are willing to negotiate a peace. (What their terms are, I don't know, beyond what they disclose publicly.)  Russia has openly stated it won't negotiate until "its objectives are met".

The reality is that the so called People's Republic of Donbas is run by thugs who abuse the local population.  I personally can live with that, if that population wants to be run by abusive thugs.  I can live with Crimea deciding it wishes to join with Russia.  It's rewarding an illegal act, but so be it.  What I cannot accept is an invasion by a foreign entity which has declared that my ethnicity does not exist, and needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.  My grandmother was a Ukrainian long before Putin was born and I will be a member of the Ukrainian diaspora after that dog is dead.  He can't change that fact. 

Quote
It amazes me the lack of pragmatism of those in power. I can understand they are out of touch with the plight of the common man but the sheer ignorance of their actions is incredible. If not for Biden the Europeans would take gold, silver and bronze for incompetence.

The Brits have been outstanding for Ukraine.  I agree, with respect to the Germans, French, and Hungarians.  The Poles also have been stellar.
Quote
In other news -

Another dead American mercenary, a bunch of Georgians as well
Another British national taken as a prisoner of war
Medvedchuk's wife calling for a prisoner swap of British with her husband.
CNN reporting American officials are worried about ammo running low in the Ukrainian army (currently no working refineries in Ukraine).Mariupol cleared with the exception of the Azovstal plant.

An American who volunteers to fight is not a mercenary.  Mercenaries are paid to fight.

Medvedchuk's cunt of a wife can shove her "recommendations".

Quote
Sadly I think we may be past the point of de-escalation. It's either a global Cold War 2 or World War 3 at this point

Deescalation can only occur with increased Russian losses.  They need to feel a lot of pain to come back to the negotiating table.  That, or Putin needs to die.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 16, 2022, 04:46:17 PM
NATO, incidentally, is a defensive organization.
Gaddafi disagrees.

Iran would never help the Palestinians, who are Sunni Muslims.
The point is Israel won't and doesn't accept serious security risks.

What if Ukraine, with thousands of US missiles, decided to launch an offensive on Russian soil
I don't pick fights with men who are much stronger than me.

No, the Ukrainians have said all along they are willing to negotiate a peace.
Denis Kireyev disagrees. Any potential progress made in Turkey was reverted once the Americans poked their nose in. Blinken has stated the conflict will go on for the rest of the year. The US want a protracted conflict and the Zelensky regime will comply.

The reality is that the so called People's Republic of Donbas is run by thugs who abuse the local population.
I agree.

What I cannot accept is an invasion by a foreign entity who has declared that my ethnicity does not exist.
I don't agree with that either. I find it baffling.

The Brits have been outstanding for Ukraine.
They're hopeless though. The Foreign Secretary made statements leading to the Russian putting their nukes on high alert, the Defence Minister leaked state secrets to prank callers, the Prime Minister is a buffoon, they can't keep supplying arms as they're running out. Rule, Britannia!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 16, 2022, 04:57:12 PM
Gaddafi disagrees.

That was a UN resolution they were enforcing.

Quote
The point is Israel won't and doesn't accept serious security risks.

Russia was not facing security risks.

Quote
I don't pick fights with men who are much stronger than me.

Which is why I noted with unlimited US equipment.  You have seemingly justified an invasion, and the rape and murder of civilians, for no fathomable reason.  As I posted previously (with a link), you know how many civilians died in Donbas in 2021 (according to their sources)?  Seven.  You know how many died in Crimea?  Zero.

Quote
Denis Kireyev disagrees. Any potential progress made in Turkey was reverted once the Americans poked their nose in. Blinken has stated the conflict will go on for the rest of the year. The US want a protracted conflict and the Zelensky regime will comply.

Yet again, not a neutral source, and he's dead now, shot by someone as it is alleged he was a Russian spy.  So he can't agree to anything now.  You have a strong streak of anti Americanism. 

I don't believe the US wants a protracted conflict.  I think they would have been happy had there been no invasion, which is why they (quite brilliantly), publicly announced their intelligence information in January and February.
Quote
I don't agree with that either. I find it baffling.

Because you don't know Ukrainian history.  This is a constant in our narrative.  To a Ukrainian who knows his/her history, it's nothing new.  That's partly why, I suspect, there is some intransigence in the negotiations. 

Quote
They're hopeless though. The Foreign Secretary made statements leading to the Russian putting their nukes on high alert, the Defence Minister leaked state secrets to prank callers, the Prime Minister is a buffoon, they can't keep supplying arms as they're running out. Rule, Britannia!
I disagree.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 16, 2022, 11:29:08 PM
Ukrainians certainly are not recruiting or using children as soldiers.

In fact, there are far more adult aged men in Ukraine who have volunteered to join, but have been told to wait because there is not enough rifles, etc.  to go around at this point.

No shortage of adult fighters in Ukraine.

+1
The boss of the DNR (Strelkov) has publically criticized the President of the Russian Federation for NOT asking for a general mobilization.The problem with the DNR and LNR is that they don't have enough fighters.
Since 2014 people recruited as fighters in the DNR/LNR were called the 25000. They liked to come to get their paycheck but their willingness to fight is very low. 
Without the regular or elite Russian forces, they cannot retrieve an inch and I don't talk about all the weapons provided by Moscow.
Additionally, when the Russian Federation is accounting for the losses LNR/DNR is not on the sheet. Moscou doesn't give a shit about their losses and even less about what happens in the DNR/LNR. That's quite curious because they consider these people as "Russian blood". And they are the very primary reason for the wars (2) since 2014, isn't it?



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 16, 2022, 11:39:36 PM
The ol' goat clearly hasn't lost his marbles like Biden.

Once the Russians take out the Ukrainian forces in the east (~50,000) they will march toward Transnistria and lay siege to Odessa. They'll keep it largely in tact like the Germans did with Leningrad - it is a prize. Complete control the southern front and supply lines.

Then all it will take is forces from Belarus to cut off supply lines in the west and it's goodnight nurse. I've heard Zhytomyr but they may go as far as Lviv. No need to assault Kyiv. If it's true that the Russian troop movements in the Kyiv region were to split/reduce troops in the east then that was a masterly move.

The Russian economy will contract but that will happen globally. Most of Asia, which includes the Middle East will continue to trade with Russia (as will large parts of Africa and Latin America). The world will become divided again. The difference however is that the east have the ongoing economic (and military) power over the west, which was the opposite of the Cold War. Europe's financial state is far more precarious than what most people realize.

Oh and in other news - a British soldier captured, an American one killed by Chechen forces, and allegedly an American General has been captured too (I saw video of FSB agents but the man's face was blurred). Pat - how many Frenchmen are holding out in Mariupol...?

It's impossible to know but surely very view because Mariupol was the most difficult place to go from the very beginning.
 
NB: Russian Federation moving from Belarus : NO. 
1/ They tried they were repelled
2/ Their forces when their attack on Kiev happened came from the very Eastern part of Belarus
3/ Belarus is NOT safe so if you attack from the North of Lviv you are very deep in Belarus and can be cut from your depots very easily.  Their supply lines from Russia through Gomel were already a nightmare, so now add 450 km...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on April 17, 2022, 04:03:15 AM
Did they implement that policy?  Were there skirmishes on any part of the border with Crimea?   Was it a threat to Russia?  ::crickets::

I have relatives who, up until early February, crossed that border frequently.  The first time you cross, on either side, is an arduous process, with searches of all bags.  After that, it's easy and quick, every time.

So what?  Is Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, not entitled to join whatever military organization it wishes?

NATO, incidentally, is a defensive organization. 

As well it should, given its neighbourhood.  There would be no invasion today if Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes in the past, with guarantees of security, breached by everyone.
You mean the same Russian government that claims:

1.  The Moskva was destroyed in a storm?
2.  It hasn't invaded Ukraine?
3.  That Ukraine trained migratory birds to carry bioweapons?
4.  That they hadn't bombed hospitals, apartment buildings, and other civilian targets?

I could go on.
Iran would never help the Palestinians, who are Sunni Muslims.  The additional flaw in your analogy is that Ukraine is an INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGN NATION.  It, and it alone, gets to decide what happens on Ukrainian territory.  Let's turn this around.  What if Ukraine, with thousands of US missiles and unlimited military hardware, decided to launch an offensive on Russian soil - bomb Moscow to oblivion, send tanks and troops to the heart of Russia, rape women and children, shoot civilians indiscriminately.  Would that be justified?

No, the Ukrainians have said all along they are willing to negotiate a peace. (What their terms are, I don't know, beyond what they disclose publicly.)  Russia has openly stated it won't negotiate until "its objectives are met".

The reality is that the so called People's Republic of Donbas is run by thugs who abuse the local population.  I personally can live with that, if that population wants to be run by abusive thugs.  I can live with Crimea deciding it wishes to join with Russia.  It's rewarding an illegal act, but so be it.  What I cannot accept is an invasion by a foreign entity which has declared that my ethnicity does not exist, and needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.  My grandmother was a Ukrainian long before Putin was born and I will be a member of the Ukrainian diaspora after that dog is dead.  He can't change that fact. 

The Brits have been outstanding for Ukraine.  I agree, with respect to the Germans, French, and Hungarians.  The Poles also have been stellar.
An American who volunteers to fight is not a mercenary.  Mercenaries are paid to fight.

Medvedchuk's cunt of a wife can shove her "recommendations".

Deescalation can only occur with increased Russian losses.  They need to feel a lot of pain to come back to the negotiating table.  That, or Putin needs to die.
You nailed it to a T, Bo.
Yet the same excuses and responses get trotted out time after time, as if repetition will somehow make them true.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 17, 2022, 06:57:23 AM
Serving British Special Forces now have boots on the ground in Ukraine...they've been training two Battalions of Ukrainian troops in the Kyiv region these last two weeks.


Ukrainian troops will be coming to Britain this week to learn how to use the Armoured Vehicles we're supplying them with.


This is from the Sunday Times.


In other news the Orcs have managed to get another of their Generals killed in Ukraine.


Major General Vladimir Frolov Deputy Commander of the 8th Army was killed in Mariupol and that makes eight Orc Generals killed in Ukraine....and counting.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 17, 2022, 08:02:27 AM
" Moscou doesn't give a shit about their losses and even less about what happens in the DNR/LNR."

does anyone ACTUALLY BELIEVE that KaPootin is killing Russians in order to save Russians?
and not just in DNR/LNR, the majority of the inhabitants of Eastern Ukraine that he's bombing are Russian speakers
and just like in Grozny most of the civilians killed were ethnic Russians
so CLEARLY this is NOT ABOUT SAVING RUSSIAN SPEAKERS
it's about REAL ESTATE
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 17, 2022, 04:57:23 PM
The Russians have been bombing food distribution centres, supermarkets, and food silos. History repeating itself, with Moscow deciding Ukrainians, living in the breadbasket of Europe, should starve.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10726901/Families-starving-Russian-troops-stopped-Ukrainian-aid-reaching-village.html

rwd, where’s the mirrored Ukrainian action? 
Title: Long range artillery
Post by: ML on April 17, 2022, 05:26:21 PM
USA is sending 18 155MM Howitzers to Ukraine along with 40,000 artillery rounds.

I read that these have a top range of around 14 miles.

But I also read Russia has artillery with range of 30-40 miles.

So won't the 14 milers be outgunned ??
Title: Surface water drones
Post by: ML on April 17, 2022, 05:29:40 PM
Wife read that USA is sending surface water type drones to Ukraine for use in Black Sea.  They attack ships and other watercraft.

Speculation was USA wants them tested out in Ukraine as it is felt they will be needed when China attacks Taiwan.

Anyone hear of this ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 17, 2022, 06:08:32 PM
"Anyone hear of this ?"

yes, it's true...

the 155mm howitzers won't be used for artillery duels, more like massed infantry and light armor

Germany is supplying Panzer 2000s which are pure AWESOME!
Title: Re: Long range artillery
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 17, 2022, 08:21:49 PM
USA is sending 18 155MM Howitzers to Ukraine along with 40,000 artillery rounds.

I read that these have a top range of around 14 miles.

But I also read Russia has artillery with range of 30-40 miles.

So won't the 14 milers be outgunned ??

Apples to oranges.

40 miles is a stretch.  The 2S7 is Russia's big artillery gun.  It has a range of 23 miles.  If they use rocket assisted shells, it can hit 30 miles.

The 2S7 is a siege gun, not an infantry gun.  It's a good gun if you are shooting at something that never moves (like a fortified city) and you have all the time in the world. 

It is mounted on a T-80 tank carriage, the heaviest tank Russia has.  It is really heavy, and easily gets stuck in mud.  It's also slow.  It also has a bulldozer blade mounted on the back of it, so it can dig out a firing position before firing.  The recoil is so bad, it has to be dug in before it can fire.

It shoots a 225 pound shell.  It can fire 2 rounds per minute.  The only problem is, the shells are so large, the 2S7 can only hold 4 rounds.  It has to have support trucks hauling the ammo for it.  (And we know how good Russian logistics and support vehicles have been doing.)  After it fires, you have to unload shells by hand from the trucks, and load them into the 2S7.

It's also really, really f'ing loud.  The crew ends up deaf really quick.  The crews using it don't want to have to fire it if they don't have to.

The 155 can fire bursts of 4 rounds per minute, but can sustain 40 rounds per hour.
It can be towed behind a truck.  You can stop, spread the legs, fire a few rounds, hook it back up to the truck and move a mile down the road, and do it over again.

So yes, if you have a 155 with a 10 mile range, and the other guy has a 203 with a 23 mile range, and if the 203 knows where you are precisely, and if you hold still, the 203 can hit you before you can get in range.  But if the 203 doesn't know where you are, or if you are a moving target, or if the 203 doesn't hit you on their first shot or two, then the 203's 23 mile range doesn't do it much good.

Ukraine also has some 2S7 203mm artillery pieces.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2022, 02:45:49 PM
fuhgettabout all them big canons
whatcha want is a laser gun dawg!!
this here is muh water cooled 200 watt diode array laser
I can start fires miles away or damage tank or drone optics
and blind snipers instantly
then put it in my backpack and walk away until next time I use it
laser head - battery pack and voltage converter, water pump and 4 liter resovoir
sweet!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 18, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
Interesting article on neofascism in Russia.

http://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 19, 2022, 02:53:24 AM
MSNBC Analyst Malcolm Nance now fighting in Ukraine.


He has friends  out there and he says he can't just stand by while they die,so he decided to stop  talking and go and fight for Ukraine.


There are 20,000 foreigners now fighting for Ukraine ...men and women.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 19, 2022, 04:50:27 AM
Do you know if the conscription started to bring fresh regular troops to the Ukrainian troops?You talked about 3 brigades. Do you know more?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 19, 2022, 04:57:49 AM
I think that foreign weapons, especially the 155mm artillery is crucial for the starting Russian offensive in the Donbass. 
I suppose that the counter-battery fight is essential for the next weeks and hope that Ukrainians could be equipped with very long 
range munitions or missiles to strike the Russian artillery. 
For me, that's the main problem they will face.  It also threats any SAM systems to destruction and lowers the Ukrainian SAM coverage potentially. Look TU22M has shown in Mariupol, so the SAM coverage is crucial.   
 
Due to the losses, the Russian Federation has 40000 soldiers out of action (KIA or wounded or captured), between 700 and 1000 tanks (destroyed, abandoned or captured) they don't have a lot of tanks to deploy but they need them. They can deploy a maximum of 500 operational tanks but this number is probably shrinking even if some reinforcements could be expected from the operational reserve. 
Therefore I worry more about Russian artillery in open space in non-prepared position than anything else. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 19, 2022, 06:31:49 AM
Do you know if the conscription started to bring fresh regular troops to the Ukrainian troops?You talked about 3 brigades. Do you know more?


All i know is that Ukraine has 44,000 Troops in the Donbas region...and they've been preparing eight years for this.


I'm not sure how battle-hardened the Russian Orcs that have been arriving in Donbas are..we'll see.
Title: More mobilization in Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 19, 2022, 08:23:41 AM
Wife's close relative joined Ukraine Volunteer Military the week that Russia first attacked. He went through a ROTC like program in his undergraduate studies, so was signed in as an officer.

He was in professional medical field, so assigned to a medical unit in Kyiv.

Just now he was moved into Regular Ukraine Military.

Some of his  group moving to Donbas, but so far he remains assigned to Kyiv.
Title: Switchblade Drone explanation
Post by: ML on April 19, 2022, 09:55:36 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_Switchblade
Title: If Russia uses nuclear in Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 19, 2022, 02:26:31 PM
America and its allies shouldn’t retaliate in kind, with nuclear weapons. The U.S. should, however, be prepared to take other serious actions quickly. Among the options:

• Clear the Russian navy’s two remaining Slava-class cruisers, their escort ships and submarines from the Mediterranean. This could be accomplished by a diplomatic démarche followed by more-forceful action if necessary to enforce compliance.

• Eliminate Russian air and military assets in Syria and Libya on the same basis. The U.S. and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization have the ability to do so fully within hours if Russia refuses to withdraw its forces to its homeland.

• Entirely dismantle all pipelines used to transport Russian oil and gas to the West, quashing even the hope of future sales to Europe. Military assets could assist civilian engineering companies to accomplish this task with dispatch.

• Advise all non-Western nations, including China, that purchasing Russian oil would result in massive punitive tariffs by the U.S., Japan and the European Union that would effectively decouple their economies from the industrial world.

• End Russian dreams of earning hard currency by servicing Iran’s nuclear industry. The idea that the West would stand by while Iran develops its own tactical nuclear capacity should be dismissed. The U.S., Israel and their Arab allies would be positioned to give the ayatollahs a short window to completely dismantle Iran’s nuclear program under an intrusive inspection regime. If the ayatollahs decline, as they likely would, the key elements of Iran’s nuclear program could be dismantled by the full air power of the regional alliance arrayed against them.

These are only some of the steps that could be taken if Mr. Putin employs nuclear weapons in Ukraine. The urgent priority is to communicate them to the Kremlin now. The same strong and well-messaged deterrence that kept the free world safe from nuclear attack during the long years of the Cold War must be restored to avert a nuclear tragedy in Ukraine. If it isn’t, the risk of Russian miscalculation will rise—as will the even greater risk of nuclear escalation beyond Ukraine.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-deter-nuclear-war-in-ukraine-russia-detonate-pipelines-syria-assets-mediterranean-11650383693?mod=hp_opin_pos_6#cxrecs_s

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 19, 2022, 03:26:04 PM
They're hopeless though. The Foreign Secretary made statements leading to the Russian putting their nukes on high alert, the Defence Minister leaked state secrets to prank callers, the Prime Minister is a buffoon, they can't keep supplying arms as they're running out. Rule, Britannia!
LOL! Well sometimes the tabloids get it right.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 19, 2022, 03:38:01 PM
It doesn’t make ANY sense for Russia to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, against what targets for example?   Cities and land they intend to occupy after?

However, it does make sense for them to use chemical weapons, and if they haven’t been used already, then I expect at some point they will be used in “limited controlled” circumstances

the West’s strategy has been to use a “minimax” strategy, which is minimizing the possible loss for a worst case (maximum loss) scenario

Russia has minimal counter-response to Western sanctions and weapons deliveries, we can always offset whatever western property seizures Russia does against the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of frozen state and oligarch accounts, and since we’ve withdrawn from Iraq and Afghanistan,  we have no exposure there, unlike before (Russian bounties to Taliban)

it will take Europe up to 10 years to replace Russian gas, but the process HAS ALREADY started, this weakens Russia in the long term, so just let the process continue over time to minimize Europe’s effects of losing Russia’s gas, as opposed to a catastrophic economic crisis to doing it ALL now

our strategy is WINNING, for every dollar we spend on weapons Russia loses at least 10 as a result
and in the long term they will lose the lucrative European oil and gas market as well
meanwhile the Russian state and oligarchs are bleeding money into OUR pockets

even Ukrainian losses work in our favor, by increasing public support for our policies, minus of course Fox News’s Pro-Russian propaganda

so as much as I hate to say it, just for the consideration of USA’s interests, I wouldn’t change very much in our current policy, because it’s WINNING in the sense that we’re hurting Russia FAR MORE than they’re hurting us

and THIS is how you win a fight



"LOL! Well sometimes the tabloids get it right."
they should stick to Elvis sightings and aliens

BTW, Russian nuclear forces were NEVER on hightened alert
and also maintaining nuclear weapons is VERY expensive
what are the odds that Russia's thousands of nuclear weapons WERE properly maintained vrs the odds that someone just took the money and SAID they were maintained
just like the conventional Russian military whose logistics failed so miserably in Ukraine
probably another reason Russia WON'T be using nuclear weapons in Ukraine

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 19, 2022, 03:46:01 PM
The Russians have been bombing food distribution centres, supermarkets, and food silos. History repeating itself, with Moscow deciding Ukrainians, living in the breadbasket of Europe, should starve.

rwd, where’s the mirrored Ukrainian action?
Ukraine is incapable. The collective West have mirrored such action. I spoke with someone involved with the global food trade on the weekend and their words were "Russians will starve". I was surprised but clearly things will be bad (and will be so across the world).

You seem to conflate your blind hatred with my pragmatism. Noam Chomsky basically echoes my own views (see the start of this interview): http://youtu.be/8Jr0PCU4m7M

As he says there are two ways to end such conflicts: negotiated peace or destruction. Ukraine will be destroyed if there is no mediated settlement. I would like to see a prompt cessation of hostilities, which means the Ukrainian frontmen for Washington will need to cede to Russian demands. But that's not going to happen because the US won't allow it, so an expeditious defeat of the Ukrainian military will save countless lives. A protracted campaign will cause more misery and death. The Russian government will simply starve Ukraine into submission.

In other news:
- The price of oil is about to go through the roof
- It is believe 400 NATO personnel are in the Azovstal metal plant, some have speculated large contingent of French troops, others have claimed a mix of US/Romanian/Canadian troops
- From memory Kherson region is now connected to the Russian cell network; controlled areas are now using Rubles for commerce
- Allegedly the Rozivka Raion has voted unanimously in a town meeting to leave Ukraine and join DNR (in Zaporizhzhia Oblast)

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 19, 2022, 03:54:01 PM
It doesn’t make ANY sense for Russia to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, against what targets for example?   Cities and land they intend to occupy after?
Lviv could become the largest crater on Earth. There are plenty of places in western Ukraine that Russia has no interest to occupy.

Power of Siberia has been operational for a number of years. With the further construction energy supplies will be directed east. Arctic sea lanes are being used more and more. India will continue to buy both hydrocarbons and weapon systems from Russia. Europe is toast! It is a financial basket case and with the collapse of German industry it will return to medieval times. Apparently France is headed for civil war (again). I wouldn't want to be living in Europe without a Plan B.

Hey Pat - I've heard that Russia wants to control everything east of Zhytomyr so it is possible they will launch a campaign to cut off most of the country. If it takes Odessa then it will cripple Ukraine's economy.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 19, 2022, 04:05:58 PM
"Lviv could become the largest crater on Earth."

even if Russia could find a WORKING nuclear bomb, and use it to attack Lviv
Russia would still LOSE the war...
because if you're ALREADY BADLY LOSING at poker, then raising the stakes is a REALLY BAD PLAYING strategy when the other players in the game are WAY BETTER than you

for someone who declares themselves to be pro-peace, you seem to be happy at the prospect of sacrificing Ukrainian lives
why do you love Pootin so much, is it because he and Trump are friends and you're a Trump voter
do you also root for Hitler in WWII movies? he DID make the trains run on time, afterall...

PS, Tucker Carlson on Fox New is recommending testicle tanning, ya might want to give it a try to enhance your manliness instead of Dick Tater worshipping and fantasizing about them

"LOL! Well sometimes the tabloids get it right."

you think Elvis is REALLY alive and housewives in middle-America are having alien babies as well?
totally see why ya voted for Trump

I can see that you have ALREADY made the journey into a wondrous land of imagination.
That's the signpost up ahead—your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
(key Twilight Zone theme music)
 




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 19, 2022, 04:27:45 PM
Lviv could become the largest crater on Earth. There are plenty of places in western Ukraine that Russia has no interest to occupy.

Power of Siberia has been operational for a number of years. With the further construction energy supplies will be directed east. Arctic sea lanes are being used more and more. India will continue to buy both hydrocarbons and weapon systems from Russia. Europe is toast! It is a financial basket case and with the collapse of German industry it will return to medieval times. Apparently France is headed for civil war (again). I wouldn't want to be living in Europe without a Plan B.

Hey Pat - I've heard that Russia wants to control everything east of Zhytomyr so it is possible they will launch a campaign to cut off most of the country. If it takes Odessa then it will cripple Ukraine's economy.

Hi Rwd. 
Zhytomyr, I hope that we speak about the same city. 
Because Zhytomyr is 130 km full West of Kiev. 
So controlling everything East of Zhytomyr on a North-South axis is seizing more than 60% of the total Ukraine. 
Reaching Zhytomir is only possible if you seize Nikolaev, you join Transinistria, cut off Odessa connections with the rest of the country (but it could be supplied by Roumania, this why taking Odessa is so strategical, if not it prevents seizing Transnistria basically). 
Good luck taking Odessa with 2000 km of gallery and now the dream to land in front of the city an amphibious assault has vanished with the long range missiles Neptun. 
 
So in my mind this story of Zhytomir makes any sense. May you tell more?

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 19, 2022, 05:20:25 PM
"Power of Siberia has been operational for a number of years."

I left "Siber" a few months ago after I cancelled my "bizzness" plans there right before the Ukrainian war broke out
Siberia is the world's largest disaster zone

the permafrost is melting, this causes building foundations to sink and collapse, in some areas it looked like this was happening to some degree to almost all buildings
and it gets worse each year
each summer, Siberia has the biggest forest fires in human history (MUCH, MUCH bigger than the ones in USA)
tens of millions of acres burnt, my plane almost crashed because the pilot could't see to land because of all the smoke
swarms of mosquitos that are BEYOND comprehension also due to the melting permfrost
you HAVE to wear bee keeping protection there to go outside or you'll have a million bites, just CRAZY the sky filled with clouds of mosquitos
also more and more every year as well
THIS is Siberia

yeah, they got a lot of oil and gas, but NONE of that money goes to ther people who live there, because your typical Siberian village is just a collection of shacks with no running water or paved roads
I wonder WHO this profit goes to?

you think Europe is in bad shape?
try looking at your own country
almost daily mass shootings, remember the Trump years with riots followed by an insurrection, you remember any of this?
I DO!!!
as the Gospel of Thomas says,
"why reach for a speck of wood in your neighbor's eye, when there is a whole tree stuck in yours"

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 19, 2022, 05:56:36 PM
I thought this was a pretty good video talking about the economic factors affecting the war.  I don't agree with everything, but thought it had some good analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpk_yGjn0E

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 19, 2022, 07:14:42 PM
After Fukushima, Germany decided to close a bunch of nuclear reactors.  The green folks wanted the electricity to replace the nuclear generated electric to be renewables.  Ultimately, the bulk of electric generation in Germany has been using gas generators fueled with Russian gas as their nuclear power plants have been shut down.

Instead of Germany trying to find ways of replacing Russian gas, why don't they just start turning their nuclear reactors back on until they can source gas from better partners?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 19, 2022, 07:18:22 PM
So in my mind this story of Zhytomir makes any sense. May you tell more?
Someone I know with Russian links shares news (before other sources). He stated in February or early March that Russia is not interested taking west of Zhytomyr.

I suspect if it can severely neuter the Ukrainian military in the east ("Phase 2")  then Russia would prefer to cut off all supply lines than storm major cities. I think they've lost hope of a diplomatic resolution, there's barely any dialogue between negotiators now.

In other news, Le Figaro reports that ISIS will stage attacks across Europe. Good thing all those arms are being sent to Ukraine... how many will end up on the black market?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 19, 2022, 08:06:06 PM
"I think they've lost hope of a diplomatic resolution,"

"lost hope", crikey mate, that sounds just like you trying to find a girlfriend in the FSU!

"how many will end up on the black market?"
after you account for how many were used to destroy literally thousands of Russian armored vehicals, I don't think there will be any Western arms  left over
but the market for Russian scrap metal in Ukraine will be huge, based on its abundant supply...



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 19, 2022, 10:32:06 PM
Workers pretend to work ,
Soviet pretends to pay

Supply trucks have more flats than tires

See that soviet flag hoisted over kherson?
That's was weird, I'm not sure the significance or statement it was making(since the russian flag had been up)

Weird times

Turkey deciding now to take care of the kurd issue
China looking at Taiwan and just made a deal with Solomon islands

Japan getting frisky about the kirills

Kazakhstan just over some serious internal.strife


Sweden and Finland hugging NATO

Germany sending arms to anyone during conflict

Africa having its normal.unrest

Any standing navy losing something the size of a cruiser.

Taliban telling Puti to chillax

2020 and 2021 said we are the worst recent badasses!
 2022 says hold my beer!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 19, 2022, 11:43:11 PM
Ukraine is incapable. The collective West have mirrored such action. I spoke with someone involved with the global food trade on the weekend and their words were "Russians will starve". I was surprised but clearly things will be bad (and will be so across the world).

You seem to conflate your blind hatred with my pragmatism. Noam Chomsky basically echoes my own views (see the start of this interview):

If Russians starve, so be it.  Invasions of neighbours have consequences, and Russia should have anticipated this in their war planning.  Nevertheless, I doubt they will starve.  They have enough land to grow food, and will grow the foods they have eaten for centuries.

Ukraine is incapable of what?

I harbour no hatred toward Russia.  I don't even hate the former Soviet nomenklatura, who proved they are the greedy pigs with no conscience I always assumed they were (65% of the current Russian political elite are from the Soviet nomenklatura, including virtually all its leadership).  Here are the demands from both sides:

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/ukraine-russia-negotiations-whats-possible (http://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/ukraine-russia-negotiations-whats-possible)

Would your country accept a foreign power dictating its constitution, the size of its military, the volume and types of military imports?  Even control of all of southern Ukraine, its current position, is a non starter.  Would you accept giving up 1/3 of Australia if New Zealand invaded and controlled those regions?  Even if Australians living in those regions opposed it?  It is not only rewarding invasion, but it is betraying the locals, who by a majority, do not wish to be a part of Russia.  Therefore, I reject your assertion that you are approaching this with pragmatism.  It's not pragmatic for a country to reward an invader with prime real estate.

I posted early on that letting go of Crimea and the occupied territory, should those regions vote to join Russia, in free and fair, internationally monitored elections. 

Quote
As he says there are two ways to end such conflicts: negotiated peace or destruction. Ukraine will be destroyed if there is no mediated settlement. I would like to see a prompt cessation of hostilities, which means the Ukrainian frontmen for Washington will need to cede to Russian demands. But that's not going to happen because the US won't allow it, so an expeditious defeat of the Ukrainian military will save countless lives. A protracted campaign will cause more misery and death. The Russian government will simply starve Ukraine into submission.

You are assuming that Russia will win.  They may win in the short term.  But as I have posted, they have sown so much hatred in Ukraine, that they cannot control the country in the long term.  Look at what's occurred in seven years in the breakaway regions.  That is the future.

As for Putin, собака собаці смерть.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 20, 2022, 12:11:46 AM
After Fukushima, Germany decided to close a bunch of nuclear reactors.  The green folks wanted the electricity to replace the nuclear generated electric to be renewables.  Ultimately, the bulk of electric generation in Germany has been using gas generators fueled with Russian gas as their nuclear power plants have been shut down.

Instead of Germany trying to find ways of replacing Russian gas, why don't they just start turning their nuclear reactors back on until they can source gas from better partners?

And coil !!!Very green!They bite their hands to have stopped nuclear plants now.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 20, 2022, 12:20:50 AM
"Power of Siberia has been operational for a number of years."

I left "Siber" a few months ago after I cancelled my "bizzness" plans there right before the Ukrainian war broke out
Siberia is the world's largest disaster zone

the permafrost is melting, this causes building foundations to sink and collapse, in some areas it looked like this was happening to some degree to almost all buildings
and it gets worse each year
each summer, Siberia has the biggest forest fires in human history (MUCH, MUCH bigger than the ones in USA)
tens of millions of acres burnt, my plane almost crashed because the pilot could't see to land because of all the smoke
swarms of mosquitos that are BEYOND comprehension also due to the melting permfrost
you HAVE to wear bee keeping protection there to go outside or you'll have a million bites, just CRAZY the sky filled with clouds of mosquitos
also more and more every year as well
THIS is Siberia

yeah, they got a lot of oil and gas, but NONE of that money goes to ther people who live there, because your typical Siberian village is just a collection of shacks with no running water or paved roads
I wonder WHO this profit goes to?

you think Europe is in bad shape?
try looking at your own country
almost daily mass shootings, remember the Trump years with riots followed by an insurrection, you remember any of this?
I DO!!!
as the Gospel of Thomas says,
"why reach for a speck of wood in your neighbor's eye, when there is a whole tree stuck in yours"


Siberia is a huge region, covering 3/4 of Russia,  and it's not all permafrost.  But the regions that are, indeed cannot really cope with global warming.  The same thing is happening in Canada's north.  Same mosquitos, too.  However, Deep Woods Off works.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2022, 07:48:07 AM
Regarding Europe’s energy policy
Always “follow the money”

for a list of North Stream “Partners”  see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

Here in the great state of Texas, the oil and gas industry controls the state’s dominant political party by showering it with political “donations”
here is just one example:

http://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/04/texas-energy-industry-donations-legislature/

it’s quid-pro-quo, politicians get the money, and in return, enact laws that favor the industry over all other interests

it’s not a bug, but a feature of capitalism
privatize the gains, and shove the costs onto someone else “lower down”

as Lenin said, “capitalists will hang themselves, and we’ll sell them the rope”

speaking of "capitalists hanging themselves"
word's come down through the grapevine of two Gazprom executives who recently “committed suicide”

Vladislav Avayev, along with his wife and daughter
and
Alexander Tyulakov

this is why my daughters and I are "babysitting" two young Russian men, so they don't "commit suicide"
eventually, they will show up here in the USA once I get their visas




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 20, 2022, 08:05:44 AM
as Lenin said, “capitalists will hang themselves, and we’ll sell them the rope”

You better check a bit further on this.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2022, 08:32:14 AM
can you prove that he DIDN'T say it?
Title: Re: Surface water drones
Post by: Admin on April 20, 2022, 12:24:25 PM
Wife read that USA is sending surface water type drones to Ukraine for use in Black Sea.  They attack ships and other watercraft.

Speculation was USA wants them tested out in Ukraine as it is felt they will be needed when China attacks Taiwan.

Anyone hear of this ?

In the most recent aid package approved several weeks ago, there are two (2) items being supplied to Ukraine before use by US troops. They are the 'Switchblade' drone and to your specific question, unmanned coastal defense systems.

The unmanned coastal defense vessels may be for surveillance―seeing where Russian ships are located so anti-ship missiles that Ukraine already possesses can target them―or could be turned into maritime kamikaze drones. This new capability could drive the Russian navy away from Ukraine's shores, hampering Russia's resupply of ground forces and relieving the western parts of Ukraine from the threat of an amphibious attack.

Because these new technologies are not widely available to the U.S. forces, this represents, in effect, a combat experiment. Ukrainians will learn how to use the new systems and pass that knowledge back to the U.S. military. (Source: http://www.csis.org/analysis/latest-aid-package-ukraine-major-escalation-support)

Any reference to their potential use in Taiwan is speculative, though easy to see how some may deduce that.

That same article addresses provision of howitzers as well as APC's, and addresses the changing considerations this new aid package represents.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2022, 02:45:17 PM
Switchblade drones are also collecting real-word video data from the Ukrainian battle field to be used in the next generation “fire-and forget” autonomous versions that use “AI” to find targets, since the quality of the AI depends a lot on the training data, this data from Ukraine is really valuable compared to training on simulated targets

spossiba bolshoi Russ-see-ya wouldn’t wanna be-ya!


Postscript

Krimster’s Russian Travel Advisory

Los Americanos and other English speaking persons should avoid travel to Russia
This is because Russians have been brain-washed into a xenophobic blood lust and it just might get pointed in your direction, and I don’t think residents of “unfriendly” countries can expect ANY legal protection in Russia, therefor, I’d avoid Russia, cuz it’ll be open season on you for any random gang of street hooligans, and after you’re beaten to a pulp, YOU will be charged for ethnic/political incitement as a provocateur


this is based on my recent phone calls to starry druzya in Rostov
holy crap did I get an earful about Ukrainian Nazis, etc and these were people who were anti-putin a few years ago
so I can imagine the potential for getting your jhoppa kicked by drunk gopnicks is gonna be REALLY high

rwd123, NOW is the time for you to go to Russia me cobber!!
don’t worry they won’t hurt ya
Title: Re: Surface water drones
Post by: ML on April 20, 2022, 04:43:40 PM
In the most recent aid package approved several weeks ago, there are two (2) items being supplied to Ukraine before use by US troops. They are the 'Switchblade' drone and to your specific question, unmanned coastal defense systems.

Big thanks for that info.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2022, 06:30:47 PM
Switchblade drones are also collecting real-word video data from the Ukrainian battle field to be used in the next generation “fire-and forget” autonomous versions that use “AI” to find targets, since the quality of the AI depends a lot on the training data, this data from Ukraine is really valuable compared to training on simulated targets

spossiba bolshoi Russ-see-ya wouldn’t wanna be-ya!

A Cyberdyne Systems T-800, what could go wrong?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2022, 07:42:55 PM
"A Cyberdyne Systems T-800, what could go wrong? "

John Conner is a tran-sexual and because he's denied his choice of restrooms, he turns into a social recluse and doesn't fight the bots, so they win...
the script practically writes itself

Heinlein had the idea almost 60 years ago, that ultra-realistic video games were actually made from real recorded battles, and that militaries recruited their top performers from the gamers
to go live and control real battles

I can see this happening in the near future






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 20, 2022, 09:29:25 PM
More info on sunk ship:

http://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/04/20/a-lot-of-people-were-injured-many-lost-their-limbs

“My son told me that the cruiser had been hit from land, from the Ukrainian side. A fire wouldn’t just start for no reason. People were killed, some were injured, some went missing. My son called me when he got hold of a phone. Their documents and [personal] phones were left on the cruiser. He called me crying because of what he had seen. It was scary. Clearly, not everyone survived. They tried to put out the fire by themselves, after three Neptune missiles had hit the cruiser (Ukraine claims two missiles had struck the warship — editor’s note). As a mother, I don’t even know what to say. I’m just glad that my son has called me, that he is alive and well.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2022, 12:25:09 AM
Interesting read.

http://www.newsweek.com/im-former-us-marine-training-ukrainians-russians-worse-isis-1699415
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2022, 12:29:45 AM
Keep in mind, Putin has just awarded the butchers of Bucha. That’s the contempt with which this animal views Ukrainians.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 21, 2022, 01:30:48 AM
Switchblade drones are also collecting real-word video data from the Ukrainian battle field to be used in the next generation “fire-and forget” autonomous versions that use “AI” to find targets, since the quality of the AI depends a lot on the training data, this data from Ukraine is really valuable compared to training on simulated targets

spossiba bolshoi Russ-see-ya wouldn’t wanna be-ya!


Postscript

Krimster’s Russian Travel Advisory

Los Americanos and other English speaking persons should avoid travel to Russia
This is because Russians have been brain-washed into a xenophobic blood lust and it just might get pointed in your direction, and I don’t think residents of “unfriendly” countries can expect ANY legal protection in Russia, therefor, I’d avoid Russia, cuz it’ll be open season on you for any random gang of street hooligans, and after you’re beaten to a pulp, YOU will be charged for ethnic/political incitement as a provocateur


this is based on my recent phone calls to starry druzya in Rostov
holy crap did I get an earful about Ukrainian Nazis, etc and these were people who were anti-putin a few years ago
so I can imagine the potential for getting your jhoppa kicked by drunk gopnicks is gonna be REALLY high

rwd123, NOW is the time for you to go to Russia me cobber!!
don’t worry they won’t hurt ya
+5
I would even say for any westerners. Especially Americans, English, Baltians, Polish, German, and even French.
That's not the time to go to Russia. For safety reasons.
Krim is right, you will have no legal protection, therefore you can be the target of everyone, anytime.
Additionally, Police could stop you and take your phone to monitor it, and guess what, you have written some comments
THAT THEY THINK TO BE NOT IN FAVOR OF RUSSIA to a friend and suddenly guess what, some drug is discovered in your luggage or in your flat.
And you are sent to jail for years. You can kiss the ass of your attorney a thousand times you'll loose your time.
 
It works like this in authoritarian countries.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 21, 2022, 01:36:40 AM
Bo,


Putin has contempt for everyone...including his own people.


I remember his reaction when he was being interviewed by a British journalist on TV and when asked what happened to the Submarine that caught fire in 2019,killing 14 of it's crew,he smirked as he replied "it sank ".


He has no regard for human life..except his own..this is what makes the slimy creature so dangerous.




He really doesn't care how many Russian or any other countries people's lives are lost to achieve his own personal objectives.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 21, 2022, 07:45:36 AM
Ukrainian pro-Russian blogger Valery Kuleshov ,whom many believed would be part of a new puppet Government in the Oblast ,has been assassinated  by insurgents outside his home in Russian errrr controlled Kherson.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2022, 09:37:34 AM
I think Russia realizes that the limited “special military operation” is not capable of breaking Ukraine
so their choices are:

1. continue anyway, hoping to wear out Ukraine and Western backers after years of fighting (Syrian civil war has been going on for over 10 years, for example)

2. use WMDs, chemical agents are more likely than nuclear

3. full military mobilization, by raising 1-2 million soldiers, but this will take time

4. use their aging antique Tu-95 bombers for massive area bombardment of military and civilian forces, like the allies did against Germany in WWII, Russia has about 500 of these aircraft, and a LOT of retired crews who could be reactivated, likely not to be concerned if any of these 60 year old planes and crews are lost


May 4, is when they default on foreign loans, and of course Victory Day a few days after that
I suspect around this time is when they’ll declare their future strategy

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 21, 2022, 10:19:04 AM
The Dmitrievsky Chemical Plant near Moscow is on fire & beyond saving.
It’s one of Russia’s largest manufacturers of chemical solvents.

The Aerospace Defence Research Institute in Tver burned down earlier in the day. The “Iskander" and "S-400" missile systems were designed here.

We are starting to notice a pattern.  :devil:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 21, 2022, 10:35:56 AM
The Dmitrievsky Chemical Plant near Moscow is on fire & beyond saving.
It’s one of Russia’s largest manufacturers of chemical solvents.

The Aerospace Defence Research Institute in Tver burned down earlier in the day. The “Iskander" and "S-400" missile systems were designed here.

We are starting to notice a pattern.  :devil:

I suppose something like this happens on a regular basis in Russia, just like in USA and other countries.

But let's hope it's actually due to some covert action which will increase.

In any event, it will give Putin more reason to punish the Ukrainian Nazis.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2022, 10:36:45 AM
there were pro-Russian "auto ralleys" in Berlin, someone set fire to a row of cars there a few days ago
resistance is NOT futile
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 21, 2022, 10:38:04 AM
Ukrainian pro-Russian blogger Valery Kuleshov ,whom many believed would be part of a new puppet Government in the Oblast ,has been assassinated  by insurgents outside his home in Russian errrr controlled Kherson.
That's interesting.

The locals there  have been quite  restless the entire time it what was proported to be a pro russian city.

I saw   local.territorial  defense folks had put up signs in kherson a day of two ago basically  saying:

All russian occupiers and supporters of russian occupation.
Leave immediately, we are  here and we are near ,death awaits you, kherson is Ukraine!
No Z allowed
They had a Z with the international.red circle and slash across it .

Obviously the warning went unheaded.

And yeah while I understand what you mean CB, I wouldn't say insurgents.
I'd say the remaining local defenders of kherson.

Beo- I'm curious your take in something.

You have suggested a international audited vote in donbass regions.
I can understand that.

However ,  the usa electoral system (imperfect as it is) has a built in counter balance to a simple majority win by population centers,as it's the only reasonable way for the rural.areas ,which are the largest territory ,to have a voice.

Obviously donetsk,lughansk  would lilely be largely pro russian and have the numbers to carry the oblasts.
However it's seems apparent the villages and smaller cities are  pro Ukraine have been under Ukraine control most of this disputed time and welcome that.as they were treated particular poorly by the dpr thugs.

I guess like goergoa they could be relocated and likely many have .

I never see the media on.either side of this cover the common man's point of view. .
Its generally shown only from. nationalistic outspoken and highly involved individuals.
Granted the conflict will bring that out in both groups

But how would the average person ,in say slovyansk feel?

From what I've seen in more random.interaction vids(not interviews) they feel Ukraine is Ukraine ,and no love lost for the independent republic leadership.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 21, 2022, 10:40:04 AM
can you prove that he DIDN'T say it?

I think MLs point was the quote is more attributed to saying the captilist would fight over the contract of who sold the rope to their would be hangers
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 21, 2022, 10:50:42 AM
I suppose something like this happens on a regular basis in Russia, just like in USA and other countries.

But let's hope it's actually due to some covert action which will increase.

In any event, it will give Putin more reason to punish the Ukrainian Nazis.

I think  the pattern of accidents shows it  isn't random.

I also more than think that the west* has fingers in every country 🤔 used or contributing* by influence   to such oppsies.
There are far more alphabet agencies than people are generally aware,and negotiations  in the back room, and unspoken but known concerns during those


Russia has as well in the west, so I wouldn't discount retaliation in kind over the course of this.

No black helicopters or tin foil hats here, that is just reality of the types of destructive assets every world power has..

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 21, 2022, 02:13:43 PM
The Dmitrievsky Chemical Plant near Moscow is on fire & beyond saving.
It’s one of Russia’s largest manufacturers of chemical solvents.

The Aerospace Defence Research Institute in Tver burned down earlier in the day. The “Iskander" and "S-400" missile systems were designed here.

We are starting to notice a pattern.  >:D


Looks like someone has  been reading my post 1707 on this very thread,which i posted seven days ago  >:D


Seems they couldn't wait as i suggested though,but of course they know the situation on the ground better than i do.


If Mad Vlad thought him and his Orcs could do what they like in Ukraine with impunity,without huge repercussions for him and his country, then he's an even bigger idiot than i already thought he was.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 21, 2022, 02:20:33 PM
I think Russia realizes that the limited “special military operation” is not capable of breaking Ukraine
so their choices are:

1. continue anyway, hoping to wear out Ukraine and Western backers after years of fighting (Syrian civil war has been going on for over 10 years, for example)

2. use WMDs, chemical agents are more likely than nuclear

3. full military mobilization, by raising 1-2 million soldiers, but this will take time

4. use their aging antique Tu-95 bombers for massive area bombardment of military and civilian forces, like the allies did against Germany in WWII, Russia has about 500 of these aircraft, and a LOT of retired crews who could be reactivated, likely not to be concerned if any of these 60 year old planes and crews are lost


May 4, is when they default on foreign loans, and of course Victory Day a few days after that
I suspect around this time is when they’ll declare their future strategy


Regarding point 2,following the UK saying last week that if WMD are used by the Orcs in Ukraine then nothing is off the table regarding our response,well today the Cech Prime Minister said today on TV that NATO boots WILL be on the ground in Ukraine if indeed the Orcs use WMD against Ukraine.


We'd see how Putler's Army of child and women rapists and civilian executioners would fare then....i suspect the vast majority of them would surrender or flee.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2022, 04:47:00 PM
Russians never travel in a straight line
they won’t just come out and use chemical weapons directly
totally NOT their style

it’ll be to use them surreptitiously, while blaming Hunter Biden’s secret Chinese funded nerve gas lab for supplying them

I can’t speak for Europe, but the USA’s strategy is to minimize damage to itself from this conflict, and within that strategy maximizing the damage it does to Russia, this means the USA won’t be taking ANY military risks

Europe has it seems a similar strategy, otherwise it’d cut off Russian gas use use completely and stop handing the Russians a billion dollars per day, but they can’t do that without hurting themselves
yes, European capitalists WILL hang themselves with the rope in the form of a Russian pipeline

Pootin will use the atmosphere of Victory Day to pronounce what is next in his great vision of world domination, because whatever it is will involve “sacrifice” from the downtrodden Russian people

I’m not sure what the West can do in response, due to their aversion to risk
a complete embargo of Russian gas, and universal sanctions on all things Russian, down to and including even part-time samichki sellers doesn’t seem to be “on the table” nor does sending the US Navy into the Black Sea for humanitarian assistance and covert supply runs…

it also doesn’t seem likely that Pootin will plan on continuing the current form of the war for the next decade or so, hoping to wear out Ukraine and the West…
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - New Russian Band idea: "The Dead Oligarchs"
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2022, 07:32:58 AM
Russian oligarchs who died by “suicide” since January

Sergey Protosenya + wife and daughters
Vladislav Avaev + wife and daughter
Vasily Melnikov + wife and sons
Mikhail Watford (Tolstosheya )
Alexander Tyulyakov
Leonid Shulman
Title: "The Dead Oligarchs"
Post by: ML on April 24, 2022, 06:02:27 PM
Russian oligarchs who died by “suicide” since January

Sergey Protosenya + wife and daughters
Vladislav Avaev + wife and daughter
Vasily Melnikov + wife and sons
Mikhail Watford (Tolstosheya )
Alexander Tyulyakov
Leonid Shulman

What happened to the previous standard method of death from 'falling out of windows?'
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2022, 06:14:49 PM
different hitmen
they each have their own methods
kinda like a signature
and that's all I really wanna say about that
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 25, 2022, 02:08:33 AM
The Dmitrievsky Chemical Plant near Moscow is on fire & beyond saving.
It’s one of Russia’s largest manufacturers of chemical solvents.

The Aerospace Defence Research Institute in Tver burned down earlier in the day. The “Iskander" and "S-400" missile systems were designed here.

We are starting to notice a pattern.  >:D


Large fire at Oil Depot in Russia's Bryansk this morning.


First fire was at a civilian facility with about 10k tons of fuel,with a second fire 10-15 minutes later at a military depot with 5k tons of fuel.


The pattern continues  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2022, 11:03:52 AM
Beo- I'm curious your take in something.

You have suggested a international audited vote in donbass regions.
I can understand that.

However ,  the usa electoral system (imperfect as it is) has a built in counter balance to a simple majority win by population centers,as it's the only reasonable way for the rural.areas ,which are the largest territory ,to have a voice.

Obviously donetsk,lughansk  would lilely be largely pro russian and have the numbers to carry the oblasts.
However it's seems apparent the villages and smaller cities are  pro Ukraine have been under Ukraine control most of this disputed time and welcome that.as they were treated particular poorly by the dpr thugs.

I guess like goergoa they could be relocated and likely many have .

I never see the media on.either side of this cover the common man's point of view. .
Its generally shown only from. nationalistic outspoken and highly involved individuals.
Granted the conflict will bring that out in both groups

But how would the average person ,in say slovyansk feel?

From what I've seen in more random.interaction vids(not interviews) they feel Ukraine is Ukraine ,and no love lost for the independent republic leadership.


I don't agree that the regions would, because of the cities, vote to join Russia.  I think the vote would split along ethnic lines, and in both regions, Ukrainians are a majority.  Donetsk is the only city with a majority Russian population, and Luhansk is almost evenly split. 

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2022, 05:52:11 PM
I thought this was an interesting read, by a Russian-

http://carnegiemoscow.org/2022/04/19/putin-s-war-has-moved-russia-from-authoritarianism-to-hybrid-totalitarianism-pub-86921
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 26, 2022, 02:22:14 AM
 Russian Airbase on fire yesterday at Ussuriysk,Vladivostok.


The pattern continues  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 26, 2022, 07:11:55 AM
"
http://carnegiemoscow.org/2022/04/19/putin-s-war-has-moved-russia-from-authoritarianism-to-hybrid-totalitarianism-pub-86921"


I welcome the new insect overlords in Russia. I'd like to remind them that I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
In the future there are no political parties in the USA, you just have to declare which space billionaire you support

Alexander Hamilton, wrote the following:

"The truth unquestionably is, that the only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion. Tired at length of anarchy, or want of government, they may take shelter in the arms of monarchy for repose and security.

Those then, who resist a confirmation of public order, are the true Artificers of monarchy—not that this is the intention of the generality of them. Yet it would not be difficult to lay the finger upon some of their party who may justly be suspected. When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”

Hamilton used to print money, by smearing ink on his face, and pressing it against a small piece of green paper, with the number 10 printed on it
a tradition that continues to this day

meanwhile,
The richest guy on the 2021 Forbes 400 owns the Washington Post. Number 2 now owns Twitter. Number 3 owns Facebook. Numbers 5 and 6 started Google. Numbers 4 and 9 started Microsoft. Number 10 owns Bloomberg. Why is the press controlled by billionaires?



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 26, 2022, 07:40:28 AM
Speaking at a joint press conference with Russia’s foreign ministry, Sergei Lavrov, the UN secretary general, António Guterres, said a “violent battle” is under way across Ukraine’s Donbas region with “tremendous death and destruction”.

Guterres said:

    We recognise that we face a crisis in Mariupol. Thousands of civilians are in dire need of live-saving humanitarian assistance, and many of evacuation.

    The United Nations is ready to fully mobilise its human and logistical resources to help save lives in Mariupol.

He said his proposal was for a coordinated work of the UN, the International Committee of the Red Cross, and Ukrainian and Russian forces to enable “the safe evacuation of the civilians who want to leave” the Azovstal steel plant and Mariupol city “in any direction they choose”.

Guardian live feed

April 26 (Reuters) - United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres told Russia's foreign minister on Tuesday that he was ready to fully mobilise the organisation's resources to save lives and evacuate people from the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol.

http://www.reuters.com/world/un-is-ready-save-lives-mariupol-un-chief-tells-russia-2022-04-26/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 26, 2022, 08:24:44 AM
What would have been interesting would’ve been a Dunkirk type of evacuation of Mariupol.
Hundreds of small boats from around the world crewed by volunteers
Russia couldn’t have stopped them all
the US Navy could’ve been leveraged if they had tried to
Once upon a time the US Navy wasn’t afraid to blockade Cuba over Russian plans of world domination
and the US Navy itself evacuated Russian civilians from southern Ukraine at the last stage of the Bolshevik revolution (Google USS Whipple)
one day in the future the Chinese will take over all of the USA without a shot being fired because it'd be too risky
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 26, 2022, 10:14:02 AM
The richest guy on the 2021 Forbes 400 owns the Washington Post. Number 2 now owns Twitter. Number 3 owns Facebook. Numbers 5 and 6 started Google. Numbers 4 and 9 started Microsoft. Number 10 owns Bloomberg. Why is the press controlled by billionaires?

Because they can.
I would do it also, if I had the money.
Communication and influencing (controlling) public opinion is the most powerful tool available to achieve goals.
Just look at the success Putin has had with the Russian people who are completely brainwashed by him.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2022, 07:35:40 PM
I think this is a good discussion -

http://youtu.be/x9_7z8iaoT0
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 26, 2022, 08:50:48 PM
Sanctions will have more effect on Russia’s economy than higher energy prices will have on the West’s economy,  it’s still another “war of attrition” between the two sides, with the west somewhat ahead on this metric, and it might give an added push for the West to move away from fossil fuels

the KGB had insiders who gained knowledge and profit for themselves by being secret “sanctions busters” for the soviet government, this will happen all over again with the FSB’s sanction busters

Russia’s trade with China will grow and Russia will be highly dependent on China, this puts China in a MUCH better position to control Russia’s economy

Russians have 200 billion USD in crypto, their weak points are the crypto exchanges
when they want to trade crypto for cash, USA COULD make a better crypto tracker to block Russians, but haven’t yet

overall, western sanctions are still pretty weak, and more needs to be made on the country and on individual oligarchs

the west could shutdown North Stream One or South Stream as well as already blocking North Stream 2, this would force Russia to pipe more gas through Ukraine (see chart of Ukrainian gas flows)

West could encourage Russians to emigrate,  though Russians will likely block Russians leaving altogether, instead of just restricting like now

Russia will likely try and create more tension in the middle east, hoping a war breaks out and Iran will restrict the flow of oil to further raise energy prices, which is the West’s Achilles heel
the West needs to move AWAY from fossil fuels in general at “warp speed” meanwhile substitute LNG for Russian gas
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on April 27, 2022, 12:12:10 AM
Russian Airbase on fire yesterday at Ussuriysk,Vladivostok.


The pattern continues  >:D
oh no, more?

Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov: Ammunition depot is on fire near the village of Staraya Nelidovka, Belgorod Region.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 27, 2022, 01:24:38 AM
This woman, originally from Russia and living in Stockholm, took time from her day to destroy Ukrainian symbols in front of the Russian embassy.  A Ukrainian woman started filming her destruction, so the Russian attacked the Ukrainian.  The Ukrainian started recording, posted the recording on her Facebook, the clip went viral, and the Russian has now lost her job at a Swedish school.


A cautionary tale to recognize the power of social media.


http://youtu.be/RxqVE80fWZ4
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 27, 2022, 02:51:15 AM
My son phoned me yesterday,and we were discussing why the Russian people in general have such a deep-seated hatred/distrust of the west,which makes the idea of their neighbours Ukraine getting closer to the west so abhorrent to them.


He said Russia has been invaded by the west through Napoleon and Hitler,so he reckons it stems from there.


That doesn't excuse the raping and killing of innocents done by Russian troops in both Germany and now Ukraine though.


It also doesn't explain why  so many  Russians prefer to live in the west if we're so bad.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on April 27, 2022, 03:37:49 AM
There’s always been a tension in Russian history between “Westernizers” and “Slavophiles”. There are reams of books and academic articles on
this very subject.

Here’s one on the most recent take-

http://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_how_russia_has_come_to_loathe_the_west311346/?amp
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 27, 2022, 03:42:20 AM
oh no, more?

Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov: Ammunition depot is on fire near the village of Staraya Nelidovka, Belgorod Region.


Explosions heard in the cities of Kursk and in Oboyan where locals there said they heard military planes flying overhead.


In Voronezh region reports that Russian air defences in action to fend off an attack on Baltimore military air base. >:D
Title: Mein Kampf um die Ukraine by V. Kapootin
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2022, 07:21:43 AM
yo dawg, Rosneft, run by longtime Putin ally Igor Sechin, invited bids for 38 million barrels of oil this week. No one was buying. RU doesn’t have space to store oil, so lack of demand causes producers to stop production.  sad...

wussup with all the explosions in Transnistria?
does this mean they'll cancel production of Rocky Horror Picture Show II there?
so no more "sweet transexual from Transnistria? sad...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 27, 2022, 07:41:27 AM
 It is past time for Putin's KGB buddy and tobacco mafioso Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyayev to be included in the sanctions.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/22/human-rights-activists-call-for-indictment-of-russian-patriarch-kirill-a77461 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2022, 08:02:41 AM
'yo homies
Economic Commissioner Paolo Gentiloni told Italian daily Il Messaggero that the EU aims to cut dependence on RU oil and gas 2/3 by the end 2022, and end Russian imports completely by 2027.
Title: Reparations from Russia
Post by: ML on April 27, 2022, 12:15:49 PM
I think this is a good discussion -

http://youtu.be/x9_7z8iaoT0

Thanks for posting this reference.
Some of the presenters were very good with their analysis.
Interesting that one guy stated that Russia already knows that $300 billion in impounded funds is lost to them.

I keep thinking of one caution:  That was the situation where extreme reparations required from Germany at end of WWI lead to the wild inflation in Germany and the rise of Hitler.

When will the vast majority of Russians look back and say . . . OMG what did we do to destroy our own country economically.   They can't just lay the blame on Putin.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2022, 04:11:04 PM
it also doesn’t seem likely that Pootin will plan on continuing the current form of the war for the next decade or so, hoping to wear out Ukraine and the West…

At the moment Pootin doesn't seem to be making much progress in the Donbas despite reassigning more of his forces there. Instead he is apparently launching missile strikes in central & west Ukraine on strategic sites.

I think you are right Krim that at this rate it will take a long time for the Russians to make any progress using conventional military intervention. They have been doing that and their efforts have stalled and they are bogged down going nowhere. There's no quick or even short to medium term win on the horizon for Pootin of he continues to use conventional military methods. I'm still not sure if he can get a win unless using chemical or other methods on a large scale though. I can see that if he can achieve breakthroughs bit by bit he may be able to gradually push matters his way. At the moment though I don't think there is any sign of chemical weapon use on any scale to make any real difference on the ground, I not so sure if we will see that. O wonder if Pootin is stuck in a situation that he has got himself into and doesn't no the way out that he is just hoping it will start to turn good for him.

There's a lot of people who have suffered horribly because of Pootin's decision to invade and yet he can't even show any real achievement on the ground. If he had made a quick effective strike then at least it would have been all over quickly but now both Ukraine & Russia seem to be stuck in a horrible elongated situation that neither can easily get out off. For me I had hoped that this situation would have been sorted one way or another quickly and with the least misery heaped on people possible. I myself was hoping to be in Ukraine this Spring/Summer in a matter of weeks or so. Unless it gets resolved soon it's really likely to mess with my plans. Kyiv & Odesa are of free from Russian threat but with missiles flying in the sky I can't very well go travelling there.

My slim hope is that the Russian Donbas offensive runs out of steam in a few weeks and at that point Russia gets more reasonable in negotiations, but I can't really see what deal could be done, none looks to be the answer. Ukraine wants back the Donbas & Crimea and Russia wants at least those areas and if it can more. I can't see Pootin giving up those areas nor Ukraine conceding them, particularly the Donbas.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 28, 2022, 11:19:59 AM
There were heavy losses for the Ukrainian troops in the Donbas yesterday,and Russian troops are making regular if slow progress using a pincer movement ,so the war may be starting to turn in Russia's favour unfortunately.


The promised Howitzers from the west are crucial if Ukraine is to turn the war in their favour.


The USA,Canada and France are all sending 155 mm Howitzers,which will outgun the 152mm Howitzers the Russians have...with a longer range to strike from,so they can smash the artillery Russia is using to shell the cities and Ukrainian troops.


The huge problem is getting them from Poland to the Donbas,without being hit by air strikes in the open Steppes of east Ukraine during transportation.


Russian has been destroying the connecting train lines for a reason.


They also need to be behind an effective air defence system when being used ,if and when they get there,so air-strikes can't hit them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on April 28, 2022, 02:49:56 PM
As predicted...

Russia commenced "Phase 2" with the primary objective of complete control of the east and a secondary objective of taking the Black Sea coast. Unsurprising the news in Transnistria. NATO are getting involved surrepticiously in Transnistria, just like with the attack on the Moskva - which was closer to Romania (de jure NATO) than Ukraine (de facto NATO) when hit. Russia may need to recognize Transnistria as they did with LNR and DNR and perform a "special operation" or step up their "peacekeeping" else NATO may move in.

Also as predicted Russia wants to cut off supply lines from the west so have hit key rail infrastructure. Also as predicted Ukrainian forces suffering massive human casualties (and POWs).  Their attacks on Russian soil serve little strategic benefit so will have minimal impact in the course of the war.

I should have bought stock in Raytheon, Boeing and the other war profiteers... I should have kept a watch on Pelosi's investments...

In other news -

Sadly things are likely to escalate rather than de-escalate.

Trench - Russia is hitting ALL of Ukraine. There's no way you'll visit in the Summer unless Ukraine surrenders... not gonna happen on Biden's watch... or his son's laptop! Unless you're creating TikTok videos with Zelensky then Ukraine is a no go zone.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2022, 03:39:27 PM
“as predicted”?????



you think a couple of rockets will stop or even slow the weapons transfer to Ukraine?
If they need to
Ukraine will tow them with tractors
packs of children and geezers will grab ropes and pull them

the only thing that Russia has that will stop these weapons are the tanks and aircraft
that are destroyed when Ukrainians shoot these weapons at them
that and only that stops them

yeah, our economy is taking a hit, Russia is gonna take a bigger one
the men in my family fought in WWII against fascism, those at home lived with rationing
we have it easy compared to then and 1000X easier than the innocents in Ukraine
who’ve done nothing to justify what Russia is doing to them

most of us support Ukraine and are OK with whatever sacrifices it takes to defeat fascism
both in WWII and now

of course, there’s gonna be the little “Lord Haw Haws”  but they’ll get theirs in the end, just like he did
what a sad pathetic little man you are to cheer on the massive slaughter of innocent people in what can only be described as an act of genocide
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on April 28, 2022, 03:50:18 PM
it might give an added push for the West to move away from fossil fuels

Yes, we can use Unicorn farts, fairy dust, perpetual motion machines et al
or we can go all nuclear all the time.


(http://images.saatchiart.com/saatchi/792140/art/2729181/1799074-SZTEWLLH-6.jpg)


I am working on my own invention (see below) to capture hot air from people
shorter than I am.

(http://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/d5/40/bfd5402d066eb510c293dce57b90172f.jpg)

 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2022, 04:38:57 PM
The future is small modular nuclear reactors (SMR) that use a “breed and burn” fuel cycle that eliminates 99% of nuclear waste by converting it into energy

http://www.terrapower.com/  their first one is being built in Wyoming

an SMR reactor is about 5% of the cost of the big old fashioned ones we have now
90% of it is mass-produced in a factory
site preparation is minimal, and can be completely underground
operating cost is minimal

electric vehicles are the future, our grandchildren will never see a V-8 engine except in a museum
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2022, 11:29:16 PM
There were heavy losses for the Ukrainian troops in the Donbas yesterday,and Russian troops are making regular if slow progress using a pincer movement ,so the war may be starting to turn in Russia's favour unfortunately.


The promised Howitzers from the west are crucial if Ukraine is to turn the war in their favour.


The USA,Canada and France are all sending 155 mm Howitzers,which will outgun the 152mm Howitzers the Russians have...with a longer range to strike from,so they can smash the artillery Russia is using to shell the cities and Ukrainian troops.


The huge problem is getting them from Poland to the Donbas,without being hit by air strikes in the open Steppes of east Ukraine during transportation.


Russian has been destroying the connecting train lines for a reason.


They also need to be behind an effective air defence system when being used ,if and when they get there,so air-strikes can't hit them.

That's interesting info CB, not sure where you're getting your info from regards to heavy losses of Ukrainian forces in Donbas yesterday. Most of the stuff on everyday news channels seems to be pointing to somewhat of a stalemate situation. I personally think it would be best for Ukrainians that one side wins out soon as otherwise they're left caught up in between it all and suffering in a conflict going nowhere. I saw too that we've apparently lost a Rambo the other day so you're likely right that Ukraine forces now might be taking a heavy hit.

If Russia take territory permanently then it looks like it will end up as Russian territory. In Kherson it looks like there is going to be a fake referendum for a 'People's Republic' like in Donbas while use of the Russian Rouble will replace the Ukrainian Ghrivna there.

I hope this conflict doesn't last years not just for the Ukrainian people but also it will throw my hopes of getting a woman out there out the door. Even losing this year to it all would be a pia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on April 29, 2022, 02:42:34 AM
“as predicted”?????





most of us support Ukraine and are OK with whatever sacrifices it takes to defeat fascism
both in WWII and now

of course, there’s gonna be the little “Lord Haw Haws”  but they’ll get theirs in the end, just like he did
what a sad pathetic little man you are to cheer on the massive slaughter of innocent people in what can only be described as an act of genocide

Spot on.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 29, 2022, 10:24:19 AM

I don't agree that the regions would, because of the cities, vote to join Russia.  I think the vote would split along ethnic lines, and in both regions, Ukrainians are a majority.  Donetsk is the only city with a majority Russian population, and Luhansk is almost evenly split.

I worded ot poorly,
It was intended only as example. And as a question to how you felt the local population was spilt.

I agree completely, as from what I can tell even after a large exodus the last 8.years the general.region was pro Ukraine overall,with more specific pockets of pro Russians within it.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on April 29, 2022, 10:35:19 AM
Rwd123

 When has Transnistria NOT had russian troops present?

Their existence was acquired by russian troops defeating moldovian troops.
The bulk of the regions economy is merely funds poured in by Russia annually.

There has always been a russian battalion stationed there permanently.

Ukrainian territorial defense blew key bridges day 2 of this conflict to slow any russian troops that wanted to join in on this from there.

There are roughly.8 battalions there currently , pray tell why havnt they been used?

The entire reason for Russia to support the region is the logistical and strategic location.
Yet its remained unused.


If Moldova gets froggy to take it back as it is sfterall stoll Moldova, not Russia ?

Maybe they see signs nato will.help in supplies ,training?

 


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on April 29, 2022, 11:20:43 AM
There were heavy losses for the Ukrainian troops in the Donbas yesterday,and Russian troops are making regular if slow progress using a pincer movement ,so the war may be starting to turn in Russia's favour unfortunately.


The promised Howitzers from the west are crucial if Ukraine is to turn the war in their favour.


The USA,Canada and France are all sending 155 mm Howitzers,which will outgun the 152mm Howitzers the Russians have...with a longer range to strike from,so they can smash the artillery Russia is using to shell the cities and Ukrainian troops.


The huge problem is getting them from Poland to the Donbas,without being hit by air strikes in the open Steppes of east Ukraine during transportation.


Russian has been destroying the connecting train lines for a reason.


They also need to be behind an effective air defence system when being used ,if and when they get there,so air-strikes can't hit them.

That's correct. The turning point would be when the pincer, the encirclement will be completed.
But for the moment we are far from this.
Losses are rising among Ukrainian soldiers and that's normal in an open space. 
 
The Russian Federation has lost its strategic initiative and the level of attrition is narrowing day by day in its tactical initiative.
I suppose they want to trade the Ukrainian territory they have seized for political gains.
 
 
 
Regarding artillery, technically the Russian Federation has other artillery systems with great range striking. 



 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2022, 03:17:55 PM
Pootin has just played his last hand before he switches to the next stage of escalation
this play is to put General Gerasimov, in charge of the advance at Izium
This would be like the French putting DeGaulle in charge

if this leads to failure, like ALL previous attempts, then Pootin is gonna escalate
either with a major mobilization and/or WMDs

Biden has countered with 33 billion aid package to be voted on by congress soon
The Republican Russian caucus (those close to Trump) is going crazy over this, echoing Russian propaganda talking points
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 30, 2022, 03:15:04 AM
Another huge fire in Russia.


The Gres-2 Power Station in Sakhalin is in flames.


This of course is the region where Russia has been forcibly taking Ukrainians to filtration camps.


Coincidence ?


I think not.


The pattern continues  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 30, 2022, 04:23:53 AM
Disastrous day for Russia's military in Ukraine yesterday..huge losses reported in the east.

Reports that Ukraine has managed to get the first Units of 155mm precision targeting Howitzers out there ..with devastating consequences for the Orcs armour...sounds like carnage. >:D



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2022, 06:53:20 AM
Russians tell me "something big" is going to happen, but they don't know what...
Russian "elitny" are panic buying...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 30, 2022, 10:37:40 AM
 The Russians are getting quite bold in their thieving. In addition to household appliances, they have been looting paintings and other cultural artifacts from museums, and even the grain from farmers bins. Imagine just driving your truck over and loading up whatever you want and taking it home to resell. This is not all the Russian army (although they steal plenty)  but ordinary Russians showing up to take whatever the military hasn't destroyed or taken already. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on April 30, 2022, 10:47:14 AM
I read (but don't remember the details) that some 'oblast' (or some such) in Russia passed law (resolution) that they are entitled to go take grain from Kherson region.

Echo's from Holodomor !!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2022, 10:49:03 AM
barefoot Russians on balalaikas, all singing

gimme s'more of that ole fashioned holodomor
if it's good enuff for moy dadooska, it's good enuff fer me
yeeee-haaaaa!

update: Russians say Kapootin is gonna drop the "special military operation" and declare war on Ukraine and go for total military mobilization
i'm guessing aroud Victory day
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 30, 2022, 11:53:58 AM
http://youtu.be/YV4tLpuy7Rk

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 30, 2022, 01:26:51 PM
barefoot Russians on balalaikas, all singing

gimme s'more of that ole fashioned holodomor
if it's good enuff for moy dadooska, it's good enuff fer me
yeeee-haaaaa!

update: Russians say Kapootin is gonna drop the "special military operation" and declare war on Ukraine and go for total military mobilization
i'm guessing aroud Victory day


18 Year olds and up were being called up from yesterday in St Petersburg.


More cannon fodder for Putlers vanity.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2022, 02:15:37 PM
will NATO also have to mobilize?
how could they deal with 1-2 million Russian soldiers on their borders without a full mobilization in response?


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Putin to declare war on Ukraine!!
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2022, 03:40:31 PM
“the signs” are there to indicate that Pootin is about to declare war on Ukraine!
The first step of this will be to declare a full military mobilization to eventually saturate Ukraine with Russian canon fodder, this will take some time to ramp up...

however, a war declaration will go well beyond just this
I would expect travel restrictions both internal and external
more internet/communication restrictions
maybe martial law internally
shifting resources from the civilian economy to the military leading to shortages
the million or so Ukrainians who live in Russia, may become subject to some form of “special treatment”

I don’t know what action he will take against “unfriendly countries” but I’d expect that to ramp up as well

we don’t have WWIII yet, but we’re gonna be close enough to see it without binoculars
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on April 30, 2022, 05:00:41 PM
http://youtu.be/OR_E8dvyaOI
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Putin to declare war on Ukraine!!
Post by: Patagonie on May 01, 2022, 01:34:14 AM
“the signs” are there to indicate that Pootin is about to declare war on Ukraine!
The first step of this will be to declare a full military mobilization to eventually saturate Ukraine with Russian canon fodder, this will take some time to ramp up...

however, a war declaration will go well beyond just this
I would expect travel restrictions both internal and external
more internet/communication restrictions
maybe martial law internally
shifting resources from the civilian economy to the military leading to shortages
the million or so Ukrainians who live in Russia, may become subject to some form of “special treatment”

I don’t know what action he will take against “unfriendly countries” but I’d expect that to ramp up as well

we don’t have WWIII yet, but we’re gonna be close enough to see it without binoculars
By voting a martial law he can send the conscripts to the front, which will save his problem momentarily,120000 additional soldiers will therefore be available. If I were Poutine I will do it.
And martial law could be used internally to better control the Russian Federation from the inside.
Very easy.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 01, 2022, 03:56:22 AM
Yet another Russian Orc General killed in Ukraine yesterday apparently.


Major General Andrei Simonov 2nd Combined Arms Army was reportedly killed by Artillery fire in a command post near Izyum...along with around 100 Orcs.


Over 30 Military vehicles also destroyed.


The strike has been shown on the main tv news networks BBC and CNN this morning.


In other news some of you may have seen a pro-Russian Chechen Commander being killed whilst making a video post on social media.


For those that haven't ,he was filming himself ,with his fellow Orcs walking alongside him,talking about having a good day with just one of his mob wounded,when 16 seconds in they were actually blown up on film.


Seems they were geolocated by his social media post on film and then hit by precision 155mm Howitzer fire...whilst other speculation is that he stepped on a mine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2022, 07:44:22 AM
"By voting a martial law he can send the conscripts to the front, which will save his problem momentarily,120000 additional soldiers will therefore be available. If I were Poutine I will do it.
And martial law could be used internally to better control the Russian Federation from the inside.
Very easy."



if Pootin is going to escalate because of a miscalculation about Ukraine, what happens if his escalation also becomes a miscalculation?

Pootin seems like an abvious example of the "Peter Principle"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

"The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to "a level of respective incompetence: employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."

in all the books on game theory I've read, they ALL say that commiting to a course of "maximum risk" is ALWAYS a bad strategy for winning, this is one of the fundamentals of the field







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - ruh-oh!
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2022, 01:09:57 PM
Putin's chief of staff Valery Gerasimov is 'wounded by shrapnel after being sent to Ukraine by Russian president to secure victory

I mentioned him a couple of days ago

This guy was Putin’s last hope, looks like he was tracked by US spy agencies and his position given to Ukrainian artillery

he was one of three people in Russia to have the nuclear codes
it looks like he was hit on almost his first day in Ukraine

I’m guessing that Putin will declare war on Ukraine sometime around Victory day, since Gerasimov was his “hail Mary” pass

so the dial on the war is gonna get turned up to maximum by summertime
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 01, 2022, 02:00:02 PM
Do you believe he was merely injured, or that he’s dead?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 01, 2022, 02:25:55 PM
Do you believe he was merely injured, or that he’s dead?
One report has him climbing unassisted up steps to airplane to leave Belgorod.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2022, 02:30:17 PM
unclear what his status is, it was his first day in Ukraine!!!
I never believe anything related to Russians until it is denied by the Kremlin
so I'll wait until a kremlin spokesperson says he's resting somewhere on vacation
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 01, 2022, 06:13:48 PM
    Vladimir Putin's top military commander has been flown out of the war zone with shrapnel wounds after being to sent to Ukraine by the Russian president to secure victory, a former Russian internal affairs minister has claimed.

    Valery Gerasimov, the chief of staff of the Russian army, was today wounded in Izyum in Ukraine's Kharviv region, which has been at the centre of intense fighting since Russia's invasion….

    An unofficial Russian source reported that Gerasimov sustained 'a shrapnel wound in the upper third of the right leg without a bone fracture.

    'The shard was removed - there is no danger to life,' he said.

    But Gerasimov's injury was severe enough to have him flown away from the frontlines and back to Russia to undergo further treatment, marking another embarrassing defeat for Putin's forces.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10772727/Putins-military-commander-Valery-Gerasimov-wounded-forced-evacuate-war-zone.htm


http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-says-russia-army-top-general-wounded-in-command-post-strike-dozens-killed.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 01, 2022, 07:05:03 PM
http://babel.ua/en/news/78221-the-security-service-of-ukraine-neutralized-the-russian-reconnaissance-and-sabotage-group-which-was-preparing-to-shoot-down-a-passenger-plane


This is scary.
And same fsb guy who stirred the pot in Odessa years back.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 01, 2022, 07:12:23 PM
In other war rumors, russian troops near Kherson shot some of the Kadyrovsty.

Allegedly tired of them not joining in the fighting,  and acting as a backing group to shoot retreating Russians, as well.as the chechens taking the spoils from the   russians that.were looted from abandoned homes .

A Canadian soft  unit went.into kherson, to do *something* 
 and returned to  mikolaev via bicycle and civilian clothes undetected.
(This is the group Wali is attached to).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 01, 2022, 07:29:50 PM
Do you believe he was merely injured, or that he’s dead?

Seems only injured.

He is a sharp cookie, I can't imagine a scenario where any superpower puts that valuable of an  asset,
in Izyum,
50 clicks  or less from some of the heaviest conventional fighting the.world has seen in decades.
And tontop.it off  stupidly announce they are sending him.to.Ukraine.

It's likely not accidental belograd defense areas were hit when he was in route either.

Not one other country would do this,  ever.

My grandfather had Parkinsons.
He lived a long time afflicted with it.
There were days he was ok and cognitive abilities of his youth.
Other days he was completely insane and hallucinations etc.
It was very difficult time for us.
His gate was exactly like this:
(Where rumors of  putin having the diesease)
I know it's an old rumor,but the depression,   paranoia,and hallucinations fit his decisions as well


http://youtu.be/Xg3HgN11nG0

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2022, 07:46:03 PM
russians don't like them chechens, they's laughin at how Chechens react to salo in Ukraine
I actually liked salo with a little bit of black pepper on it
ate it all the time when I lived in Crimea and fresh Caviar we bought from the 5th kilometr market, which doesn't exist anymore
it's salty so you put it on top of some freshly churned and chilled butter on a slice of kleb
washed down with a Baltica Chiteery Piva
the good ole days, sigh...

I don't know what's wrong with Pooty Poot
I'm still thinkin it's drugs though

I frequented an elitny klinika in Moscow that was an anteka for some pretty hardccore narcotika
a lot of Moscow's finest could be seen there, and some were totally fooked-up
I was in a pilot study of serotinin enhancers for people on the spectrum, and was given cognitive tests before and after (math and word problem solving)
and after that I bought a BUNCH of Russian mental performance enhancers (nootrpics) from them that are totally unavialable in the west, and they "kick ass"
back in the day, codeine was legal in Crimea, I had a cocktail of 90 mg codeine phosphate and couple of bowls of  local Tungusta Thunderfook
I was so freakin high it was amazing
if I were Pootin, I'd be totally wasted, except in public


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 01, 2022, 07:54:12 PM
I'm no fan of salo or holedetz,
But I love borscht and especially green borscht lol and most Slavic dishes.
Caviar on buttered bread is of course tasty.
Baltica is ok, I'm not much on beer ,and prefer wheat beer.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 01, 2022, 07:57:08 PM
Krimster,
 Is it true they fenced off that entire promenade area in yalta beaches, so now it's no longer public and only private for the new hotel guests?

I saw a semi recent (last year?)  vid there  of a reporters walking.around, and everything seemed much different ,uglier and well deserted.
Amd this was prior to this year's  invasion
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 01, 2022, 07:58:52 PM
As far as chechens,
This young man is well spoken, deserves respect and seems to have been very close to have been used as a false flag.

http://youtu.be/lEOZhJo_0Oo
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2022, 08:04:53 PM
I dunno about Yalta, but Sevastopol beaches at  one point had this problem because of this wacko politician (Vladimir Konstantinov) who accused locals of stealing the beach sand so for awhile  he closed off the beaches to public access

Russians gotta dump a lot of sour cream in the middle of their bowl of borscht
after smelling raw beets, I was skepical of borscht, but cooking takes the bad smell out

in the summer you can buy beer from the beer wagon, but ya gotta bring your own container
local alchogolicki show up with dirty old fruit jars fished outta garbage bins and fill em up at the wagon, gulp it down, take a wiz 'round the corner and go back for a refill
have to be careful where ya walk cuz of that, but you can easily find the wiz spots by smell and avoid that area
I learned some useful skills there
good times
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2022, 04:10:51 AM
"By voting a martial law he can send the conscripts to the front, which will save his problem momentarily,120000 additional soldiers will therefore be available. If I were Poutine I will do it.
And martial law could be used internally to better control the Russian Federation from the inside.
Very easy."



if Pootin is going to escalate because of a miscalculation about Ukraine, what happens if his escalation also becomes a miscalculation?

Pootin seems like an abvious example of the "Peter Principle"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle)

"The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to "a level of respective incompetence: employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."

in all the books on game theory I've read, they ALL say that commiting to a course of "maximum risk" is ALWAYS a bad strategy for winning, this is one of the fundamentals of the field

I do agree with you
In the market shares, the policy is the same: you don't hold your position while the market is down, you have sold them before it plunges too low. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 02, 2022, 06:31:50 AM
this means Poutaine is NOT a "rational player"
more impulsive than thoughtful
"whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad"
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on May 02, 2022, 07:02:17 AM
A munitions factory is on fire in Perm, Russian Federation.
It produces the Grad and Smerch rockets. What an accident. :-\


 :rolleyes: :devil:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 02, 2022, 07:30:43 AM
a "suspicious" fire happening every day
will lead to an internal "crackdown" once martial law is in place after war is declared
travel will be restricted, guards everywhere
this will incur its own cost to Russia and at best will only temporarily slow the Pyros*

the most successful criminals are the ones who seemingly don't break the law, but instead, create the law
today, Russians are too crude in their methods to understand this

but, once upon a time, they could grasp this idea
the Pereiaslav Agreement, is what made Ukraine Russia's suka in the first place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pereiaslav_Agreement

Pootin's first attempt at a modern version of this failed, "The Eurasian Economic Union", and led to Maidan, so he moved on to more violent methods, which also seem to be failing
Pootin is like a comedian telling jokes that no one laughs at, because he gets the timing all wrong
he needs to be "more funny"
and needs better joke writers, that's all I'm saying
someone whose jokes relate to the people and not just oligarchs

*disclaimer
when I was 12, I was an amateur pyro
my technique was a pack of matches and a cigarette purchasd from a vending machine for 35 cents for a pack!
light the cigarette, and place it under the matches
it burns down, lights the matches, and if placed on flammable material will start a fire
I can't remeber how long this took, but it was several minutes, I did "test runs" to establish the time delay
no one notices a kid, I was never caught or even suspected
stopped doing it when I got laid for the first time
so I guess pyromania is sexual in some way


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on May 02, 2022, 10:01:41 AM
I will first say that I have not seen a confirmation from anyone else official or photo/video proof.. so it could be just propaganda, but from the evidence I HAVE seen of brutal shit the orc's done in Kyiv surroundings regarding other things, I do believe this is true too.


So here is what the rdw's pals are doing in Ukraine

Quote
Inna Sovsun @InnaSovsun
@InnaSovsun
Member of #Ukraine🇺🇦 Parliament, Deputy Head of @GolosZmin party,
First Deputy Minister of Education and Science (2014-2016)

Another horrible story from the #Kyiv region.
#russians killed a woman. Then they tied her live child to her corpse... and put a bomb between them.

When rescue workers tried to save the child, the mine detonated.

The story was confirmed by 🇺🇦Minister of Defense
#RussiaWarCrimes
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on May 02, 2022, 10:05:17 AM
Meanwhile, this is how humans behave (aka Ukrainian people and not soviet Orc's)

Quote
A cat was found in Borodianka near Kyiv on the 7th floor of a destroyed house🥺The rescue operation was carried out by ZooPatrol🇺🇦 and they even had to engage special equipment. This is because we are humans and occupiers are not. Photo: Eugene Kibets
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2022, 10:37:46 AM
A munitions factory is on fire in Perm, Russian Federation.
It produces the Grad and Smerch rockets. What an accident. :-\


 :rolleyes: >:D
Now they are no doubt that there is some internal sabotage.  :P
The question that everyone has in mind is: Russian citizens or spies?  8)

I think that among foreign Ukrainian legions, Western countries delivering tons of weapons, Moscka cruiser, this one is infuriating the President
of the Russian Federation the most now.  :deadhorse:

It's like the list of problems is upsizing every day  :P

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 02, 2022, 02:42:49 PM
Now they are no doubt that there is some internal sabotage.  :P
The question that everyone has in mind is: Russian citizens or spies?  8)

I think that among foreign Ukrainian legions, Western countries delivering tons of weapons, Moscka cruiser, this one is infuriating the President
of the Russian Federation the most now.  :deadhorse:

It's like the list of problems is upsizing every day  :P


The imbecilic Putler and his RADA have brought war and an economic meltdown within Russia.


How much of failures does that make them ?


They couldn't be more incompetent if they tried.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on May 02, 2022, 10:45:34 PM
I thought this was an interesting read, by a Russian-

http://carnegiemoscow.org/2022/04/19/putin-s-war-has-moved-russia-from-authoritarianism-to-hybrid-totalitarianism-pub-86921

Agree, a good read.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on May 02, 2022, 11:45:26 PM
There is a large fire at the warehouse of the Pro-Kremlin "Prosveshchenie" publishing house near #Moscow. Almost 34 thousand square meters are burning.

Around midnight a hangar in #Bogorodskoe district, where printed materials were stored, burst into flames.

Curiously, this is the publishing house that banned the word "Ukraine" from world history

 :devilish:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on May 03, 2022, 06:02:02 AM
Agree, a good read.

Welcome Back!!

(http://media.tenor.com/images/7eac2eb0c9b86fce03f87d62440c3703/tenor.png)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 03, 2022, 06:52:36 AM
The Orcs are currently storming the Azovstal Plant in Mariupol in a desperate attempt to give Putler a victory he craves for Victory Day on May 9th.


Before the assault Orc aircraft,Naval Artillery and Barrel Artillery bombed the plant for several hours in a row overnight,which killed two civilian women,and injured about ten other civilians.


Armoured Vehicles,Tanks,a large number of Infantry ,and attempts to land by Boats in the desperation to take the Plant.


This is coming from a live broadcast by the Deputy Commander of the Azov Regiment.


So much for the lying Putler saying he wouldn't want to waste more of his troops lives by storming the Plant.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2022, 09:24:15 AM
All the “hep cats” intelligentsia in Russia are into a thing called “TRIZ”
http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCT_92.htm
which is a MUCH better general theory of problem solving than Aristotle's, "take a big problem and reduce it to multiple little problems and solve sequentially"

I had to teach myself the principles of TRIZ from Russian books I bought and I translated them myself by scanning/OCR/ and using an online translator

when I look at the problems of the war from a TRIZ perspective, the war makes a LOT more sense than just standard logic which would say Pootin is losing the war

From a TRIZ perspective, this war is a solution to reducing the non-Russian population within the current borders and proposed new borders of Russia, a kind of Russification, and this is not purely a military conflict, as long as there are large numbers of casualties in non ethnic Russian groups, then Russia is “winning”

this is being done by primarily using Russian ethnic minorities from provinces as canon fodder to “cancel Ukrainians”  the result is that they are canceling each other and improving the “whiteness” of Russia by increasing Russian’s percentage of population within “greater Russia”
this works, because few of the canon fodder are coming from the european “white” part of Russia

now it all makes sense!
expand borders
reduce minorities
win-win

so the "West" in order to prevent geographic expansion of Russia is aiding Russia in its plan to reduce minorities
no wigger protection for Russia like in China...
wussup with my wigger homeboyz?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 03, 2022, 09:50:55 AM
The problem with that theory is that,as i posted previously,young men in St Petersburg started getting called up last week..via texts.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2022, 10:09:11 AM
we shall see...
if there is some truth to this idea
then what I'd expect from Russia for the future is "human wave" type of assaults with massive amounts of untrained ethnic minorities to try and break the stalemate
from a military perspective it would be ridiculous to do this
but to reduce minorities, makes total sense
mobile crematoria, genuis, no need to transport ethnically dirty people to be cleansed in camps
tell the soldiers that "fighting makes you free"
if Nazis had done this with Jews, they would have had the equivalent of the Israeli army on their side in the war and still killed large numbers of Jews
dumpkopfs!


Title: Cancelling deaths
Post by: ML on May 03, 2022, 04:48:38 PM
because few of the canon fodder are coming from the european “white” part of Russia

1. I would like to see some verifiable evidence of this.
2. I understand that Russia (initially) using men from outside the major Russian cities so that reports of deaths do not spread in large cities.
3. However, Russia is killing large numbers of ethnic Russians  all over Ukraine, but particularly in Donbass; so canceling is of ethnic Russians in Donbass against non-ethnic Russians from Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2022, 06:02:31 PM

google is your friendly source of all obscura informatze
try looking for Russian casualty list by province, etc
The Truth is Out There, it's just really far away from here
I'm too tired at the moment to provide this service cuz my wife's got me doing "honey do's"
and a man cannot serve two masters :)
OTOH, future actions will tell you if there is some truth to this or not
so you could just wait and see what the next stage of the war brings


Title: Re: Cancelling deaths
Post by: Jumper1 on May 03, 2022, 06:28:19 PM
1. I would like to see some verifiable evidence of this.
2. I understand that Russia (initially) using men from outside the major Russian cities so that reports of deaths do not spread in large cities.
3. However, Russia is killing large numbers of ethnic Russians  all over Ukraine, but particularly in Donbass; so canceling is of ethnic Russians in Donbass against non-ethnic Russians from Russia.

Cant verify anything.that dramatic.

Several accounts 9f chechens used as backing troops to shoot retreating Russians though.

Also one province in Siberia has a small.population.
Those yound men (by their words) were promised flats if they signed a contract.
About 600 have bern killed.

The region they are from.only has
 about 6500 people .
Ouch.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2022, 06:55:32 PM
try this for starters
http://twitter.com/search?q=russian%20casualty%20list&src=typed_query


a big part of TRIZ is to identify sources of contradiction, solutions are about solving contradictions


I learned a LOT about the evolution of the Soviet Philosophy of problem solving

1. linear algebra for resource optimization
2. tsetlin automata for optimization through feedback from reward/penalty
2. TRIZ Theory of Problem solving

Soviets/Russians are on another planet compared to the west, far more advanced
it's why Pootin's gambit with Trump worked so damn well
it was a TRIZ play
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 04, 2022, 07:04:46 AM
I suppose that everyone remember what I wrote if you go to Russia and some drug is found on you:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10778779/US-State-Department-declares-WNBA-star-Brittney-Griner-wrongfully-detained-Russia.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10778779/US-State-Department-declares-WNBA-star-Brittney-Griner-wrongfully-detained-Russia.html)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 04, 2022, 07:41:22 AM
If you’re going to vape hash oil, delta 8, etc in Russia and you want to bring your stash with you
you DO NOT want to get a “510 cartridge” vape pen rig,
no, your vape cartridges show up on x-ray and are easy to identify

what you want to do is get a reservoir based vape unit like an iCub 2, and take the mouth piece off
and keep your distillate in a little cosmetic jar and put a couple drops of lemon oil in it and place the jar in separate luggage with other cosmetic items
Russians won’t even bother to look at it!

I’ve smuggled all kinds of stuff into and out of Russia, I’m addicted to the adrenaline rush I get when I do this, and THEN I go vape, what an incredible feeling combining the two!!
good times!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 04, 2022, 08:36:58 AM
CNN were interviewing a Ukrainian Military Commander in the Donbas today,and he said they're STILL awaiting the arrival of the western heavy Artillery.


The reporter showed film of reinforcements for the Donbas troops arriving by road,but nope no heavy Artillery to be seen.


Meanwhile the Azovstal plant in Mariupol is being pounded from the land.sea and air again today.


Hundreds of civilians still trapped in there..including thirty children...and contact with the plant was lost today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on May 04, 2022, 08:44:59 AM
The reporter showed film of reinforcements for the Donbas troops arriving by road,but nope no heavy Artillery to be seen.

Two months ago, our friends took 5 long days to get from Donbas to Poland by car.  I suspect it takes longer today, especially having to try and move big equipment in ways to keep them from getting targeted, among civilians on the same roads/trains.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 04, 2022, 10:19:17 PM
http://youtu.be/RdlWG_pfsHo

The monitoring group of the Belarusian Hajun Project (http://t.me/Hajun_BY) collected information on all known missile launches from the territory of Belarus, which began at 6:20 on February 24, 2022.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2022, 08:53:23 AM
so now the grapevine says Pootin IS NOT going to declare full mobilization on Victory Day....
more of that "riddle wrapped inside an enigma" meme

if Pootin doesn't mobilize, then he's just gonna continue the war indefinitely like in Donbas, etc since 2014 and Syria...
no long march to Odesa, not yet
land bridge to Crimea + reopen Northern Crimea Canal + damaging economy of Ukraine and West = "Victory"
added bonus of purging non Russian minorities
and putting new "iron curtain" around Russia to keep Russians in, and keep west out
a much smaller win then Pootin hoped for, but still a win
economy will convert to rubles, seizing state and oligarch foreign assets, so what?

so this is a small short term victory, with the prospect of a continuing long term war
that may at some time in the future give the opportunity to incrementally seize more and more of Ukraine



this is a REAL sign in Russia!
this can only mean
That it is the dawning of the age of Prosveshchenie
age of Prosveshchenie
Prosvesh-chenie


or just some Dumb Ass from Donbas


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 05, 2022, 11:43:22 AM
Rumours are swirling in Moscow that former Generals and KGB officials are preparing to oust Putler to end the war in Ukraine,which is increasingly seen across Russia as a strategic mistake and an economic disaster.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 05, 2022, 11:53:04 AM
Ukraine has successfully taken significant and strategic territory back in Kharkiv ,made gains in SW and NW Kherson and successfully intercepted the Orcs supplies on the western flank of the Izyum advance.


Valeriy Zaluzhny,Chief Of Ukraine's Armed Forces has now announced that Ukrainian Troops have now switched to launching counter offensives near Kharkiv and the Orc occupied city of Izyum.


We know what happened when they did that in the Kyiv region..let's hope the same result happens.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2022, 01:06:06 PM
Rumours are swirling in Moscow that former Generals and KGB officials are preparing to oust Putler to end the war in Ukraine,which is increasingly seen across Russia as a strategic mistake and an economic disaster.


I am skeptical of that.  How do they plan on explaining the ouster of an elected president?  Certainly there was fraud in the election, but no matter how you view it, Putin was elected by a majority of Russians.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2022, 02:28:50 PM
Victory Day Pogrom, er I mean Program

Parade of Ukrainian Prisoners
and fake Ukrainian Nazi banners thrown to the ground and trampled

followed by nearby  mysterious explosions and fires
Salo Ukrainia

after V-Den, Russians will have Stalinesque show trials of Ukrainian POWs in Russian courts
they will be accused of war crimes in Ukraine
Art Dept of Moscow State will create stylish Nazi flags and other kinds of "evidence", etc

another reeason to have the war, is to keep the chechens in Ukraine instead of up to mischief in Dagestan, etc

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2022, 05:34:08 PM
Former MP Alexander Nevzorov.  Some of this is just an understanding of history.  Some is an understanding of how the Russian state works (or doesn't).


http://youtu.be/OutvYSl_TLc
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2022, 05:37:49 PM
Endless war, means the transformation of Russia back to a closed society like in Soviet period
possibly a class struggle against oligarch’s and the state seizing their assets like the West is also doing!
And a recreation of the soviet union, at least internally in Russia

it seems like they shoulda done this first, then “liberated Ukraine”
duh!

Bo, thanks for Nevzorov's video, that's about the funniest, most sarcastic video I've ever seen, I love it!
gozpedy!
and I was almost gonna give up and go work for Putin, until I saw the video
you saved me...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2022, 05:42:36 PM
Bo, thanks for Nevzorov's video, that's about the funniest, most sarcastic video I've ever seen, I love it!
gozpedy!
and I was almost gonna give up and go work for Putin, until I saw the video
you saved me...


I'm always here for your eternal soul. :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2022, 06:02:38 PM
"'i'm always here for your eternal soul. :)"

I already knew that about you, this just confirms my perception!!!

Russia is afraid to fight Odesa!!!
Gozpedy!
because in order to “save the village”
they’d have to “destroy the village”
and destroying such an historic “Russian/Soviet” iconic city as Odesa
would be oichen plohoi!

This would create one of “them contradictions”
where the government’s words and actions don’t match
and them contradictions would become apparent to the public

Odesa would be leveled, because resistance from Krimster’s Ancestral Rodina
would be 100X the Warsaw uprising
if they start doing to southern Ukraine what they did to Bucha, well fook it
I’ll work 12 hour shifts anywhere they can use me in Odesa putting IEDs together
and if I get killed there, well my name will join with the others, and one day my grandchildren will come there and read it

I know how to drive from southern Ukraine from Moldova, I drove it once with my father-in-law round-trip
and could do it again by myself as long as I had a clear path
full tank of gas at the border, and petal to the metal baby!
no stops, pee in the bottle, just one long,fast drive!


what's the point of dying of old age
compared to fighting for Odesa
it's like what Tolstoy said about the siege of Sevastopol

It is impossible that at the thought that you are in Sevastopol, a feeling of some kind of courage, pride does not penetrate into your soul, and that the blood does not begin to circulate faster in your veins ...

i'm just talkin, my wife would never let me go
but damn....
it DOES make my blood "run quicker"








Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 05, 2022, 06:21:28 PM
That's an amazing prediction from 21
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2022, 08:41:38 PM
maybe the truth is not one way or its opposite
but somewhere in the middle

Solving Russian Military Manpower Problem

if new mobilisation is declared only in regions immediately bordering Ukraine, such as Bryansk, Kursk, Belgorod, Voronezh and Rostov, then cannon fodder flows don't have to pass through Moscow, thus reducing public exposure to the escalating cost of the war

I submit this as an example "of my work", willing to discus terms, I have my own literary Russian<--->English Interpreter
able to submit Russian or English wikipedia articles

will work for Russian nootropics
however, if you're trying to collect me through a "honeypot"
I am most attracted to very tall brunettes, with light colored eyes and skin and also good cheeckbones (you know the type!)

If I see a woman who resembles this description, I will walk up to her and say "privet", to get over that awkward initial meeting, by taking the initiave for making introductions
it's how I met my wife, almost 23 years ago!!
so, even though I got lucky, in Russia, you just never know when fortune will smile again in your direction
unless you contine to make introductions, by constantly networking while climbing the ladder in the direction you wanna go in
it could be money, government connections, or just access to a lotta sweet lookin single, horny women (usually divorced!)
cuz, whenever you find something that works, don't STOP doing it
amirite?





 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 06, 2022, 12:42:17 AM
Rumours are swirling in Moscow that former Generals and KGB officials are preparing to oust Putler to end the war in Ukraine,which is increasingly seen across Russia as a strategic mistake and an economic disaster.

If there is no real mobilization and no martial law it means that Russian Federation cannot use conscripts to the front and their divisions on the front will receive very few reinforcements. 
Something to make very angry the officers and generals. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 06, 2022, 03:59:19 AM

If there is no real mobilization and no martial law it means that Russian Federation cannot use conscripts to the front and their divisions on the front will receive very few reinforcements. 
Something to make very angry the officers and generals.


Film yesterday showed lots more Chechens boarding a transporter plane to go to the front.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 06, 2022, 04:15:51 AM
There is reportedly another Orc Ship on fire in the Black Sea.


The Admiral Grigorovich ..a class Frigate ..is on fire near Zmiiny island .


Rescue operation ongoing with multiple aircraft and rescue vessels in the area.


No confirmation at this stage...with some reports saying it's happening,but others saying it isn't.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on May 06, 2022, 06:13:59 AM
No confirmation at this stage...with some reports saying it's happening, but others saying it isn't.

I found the same. Reports are a mixed bag. Russia obviously controls the
Black Sea and I don't know how anyone can confirm it.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 06, 2022, 06:32:05 AM

If there is no real mobilization and no martial law it means that Russian Federation cannot use conscripts to the front and their divisions on the front will receive very few reinforcements. 
Something to make very angry the officers and generals.

Pat,
It seems plenty of conscripts amongst the KIA and pows...???

Many I think a contract signed for* them by their superiors ;)

There are so many reports of captured who had never fired a live round before crossing the border.
Most by far from poor families un provincial areas.

Such is most wars


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 06, 2022, 07:43:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuO94UREgk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuO94UREgk)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 06, 2022, 07:51:42 AM
The story looks like this one (to be confirmed).   
The defense system on Snake Island started to be hit by Ukrainian TB2 drones.
Two fasts boats went to the Snake Island where a Russian garrison took place. 
Both boats were destroyed by Ukrainian TB2 drones.
Russian sent his more modern frigate of the Black Sea to protect the area.
She was hit by Neptune missile(s).
 
The garrison tries to buy some food from Amazon.
Their credit cards are denied due to the sanctions.
They have started a campaign on the Internet to gather some help.
If you are interested write me on PM
(NB: They are more interested in potatoes, bottles of water, macaroni, vodka, and fresh milk than money itself just to say).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 06, 2022, 09:21:10 AM
The garrison tries to buy some food from Amazon.
Their credit cards are denied due to the sanctions.
They have started a campaign on the Internet to gather some help.
If you are interested write me on PM

Why can't they get the food left over in the freezers of the Moskva ship?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2022, 09:26:42 AM
Why would I want to help invaders whose military is executing civilians, raping women and children, and stealing anything not cemented to the ground? 

Let them surrender and be traded for POWs. At least they will have done something useful.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 06, 2022, 09:50:49 AM
Why would I want to help invaders whose military is executing civilians, raping women and children, and stealing anything not cemented to the ground? 

Let them surrender and be traded for POWs. At least they will have done something useful.

I think (hope) Pat was being funny.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2022, 10:35:29 AM
people "on the spectrum" sometimes have difficulty detecting humor, because they tend to interpret things literally, don't they BO?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 06, 2022, 11:14:21 AM
I think (hope) Pat was being funny.
Yep, true.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2022, 11:59:10 AM
people "on the spectrum" sometimes have difficulty detecting humor, because they tend to interpret things literally, don't they BO?


I am not on the spectrum.  I learned in my career that it was better to take people literally, and keep my opinions on nuance to myself.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2022, 12:43:33 PM
"I learned in my career that it was better to take people literally, and keep my opinions on nuance to myself."


convenient choice of career then...
but I think you were aware of this BEFORE you started your career
what else are you afraid of?
besides snakes
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
I wouldn't be afraid of being on the spectrum, were I. 

BTW, I am not afraid of snakes.  We only have harmless garter snakes here, and to be honest, I've never seen one.  I had no problem picking up frogs as a child, even though I wasn't a tomboy.

I do fear rats, I don't know why.  We also don't have rats here.

Career wise, I don't take it as my job to negotiate a deal, only the legal terms to make it happen in accordance with the client's wishes.  I will advise clients if I think their terms are too generous, or if I believe they won't get paid/face problems down the line.  But it's not my money or my risk.  I will tell them what I would do, but also that it's their money/their risk.  I have only once not followed a client's instruction because it was so "out there".  I ended up saving him $600,000, so he was happy at the end of the day.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2022, 01:06:47 PM
"I wouldn't be afraid of being on the spectrum, were I"

"advocats" shouldn't end sentences with dangling particples...
there are Trump voters here on this board who'd be incapable of filling in the "missing piece" and would become confused by it...

ha,ha my writing criticism was just a joke to - pfffftttt! there it goes!!!

correct way to write for Trump Voters

1. tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em
2. tell it to 'em
3. tell 'em what ya told 'em
4. repeat...

most women's fear of snakes is due to their phallic shape
women think the snakes are gonna go after their vulnerable "VJJs"
that's ridiculous!  just female insecurity!





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Limited Mobilization
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2022, 06:59:36 PM
Russia is beginning to activate Army Reservists
Russia has almost 1 million total reservists
probably will do oblast by oblast while inching closer to Moscow
could easy pick up a couple of hundred thousand to match Ukraine's mobilization of 300,000
without doing an exhaustive call-up of reservists
and still no general call-up, university deferments until age 27

war will enter new phase this summer with reservists vrs reservists
Biden willsign the new lend-lease act with Ukraine on May 9!!!
US weapons factories will 3 work 3 shifts per day after that


All War!
All The Time!

"Они живые". Короткометражный фильм
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSY14PwVW_o



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 07, 2022, 03:09:57 AM
With just the 2 yearly conscriptions and the martial law, they can send 250000 soldiers to the front.
I am not sure that the President of the Russian Federation wants to make such a political move.
Of course, the siloviki could consider that the Russian population is enough brainwashed thanks to the hysterical propaganda andthere is no risk. 
That is the official version. 
 
Privately most of the soldiers will quickly discover the truth on the front and their morale will get low very soon.
In this struggle, the numerical advantage cannot overcome trained troops with high morale.
There is a cascade psychological effect that hasn't still provoked the entire collapse of the front but you never know when it happens.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 07, 2022, 07:29:03 AM
We know from history, that when “the economy” faces a major decline, that having a large pool of “unhappy veterans” is usually a “trouble spot”

in the 90s, Chechen veterans became mafia “soldati” for better pay with the Tambov Clan!
In the 20s, who will hire veterans of the Ukrainian Special Military Operation and Exercise in Cultural Learnings…?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 07, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
Israel is providing Spike missiles to Ukraine through Baltic State intermediaries
Spike is a generation ahead of Javelin, has ELOS mode

Ukraine also has “unapproved” help from Israelis in the field of Plutonium reprocessing

Ukraine’s nuclear reactors produce enough Plutonium to make 1 fission bomb per day

Israel also has a company worth of high-end soldiers in Ukraine, who are busy taking notes while directly engaging the Russian Army!
(to help deal with Iranians later!)

Ukrainan nukes will be delivered by Tractors driven across the border to Russia
so everyone will have time to take cover

Civil Defense announcement will tell 'ya how many days it'll be before the tractor gets near 'ya
just enough time to do a quick panic buy and  take cover

of course, there will be false alarms, from some local farmer plowing his field being mistakenly identified as a Ukrainain nuclear attack
folks, don't forget your Iodine tablets
I bought mine on Amazon and shipped them to my children, just in case...

and like the wise Confucious once said:

"eat contaminated food,
and sh*t happens"




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 07, 2022, 12:19:07 PM
This us an article about a “pro Russian” politician, and how Russia miscalculated. I have provided a share token, if you click on the article.

http://archive.ph/2022.05.07-102623/http://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/07/world/europe/russia-putin-ukraine-politicians.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 07, 2022, 12:25:46 PM
everyone loves treason
but everyone hates a traitor

Pied Piper of War

play a song, so the young will march to their graves cheerfully
play your magic melody

so, the next stage of the war is “the mobilization phase”
Ukraine is going to raise 300,000

Russia’s number is unclear, it could be from 300,000 to 800,000

as long as the West can keep Ukrainian troops better equipped
than Russia can equip Russian troops
Ukraine stands a chance of surviving the war of attrition that is on it’s way…

as both sides start “bleeding each other”
the side that passes out first, loses…
the side with the most brass knuckles, nun-chucks, nosh and britva will be the one standing

there are no troops who are more motivated than those whose families are in shelters behind their lines
The full industrial might of the USA will be behind them when Biden signs the first "Lend Lease" Bill since WWII, it will be signed on Victory Day, how ya like them apples, Putin?
oh and add UK, Netherlands, Canada,  Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Germany, Albania, Bulgaria, Austria
Croatia, Cze4ch Republic, Greece, Turkey, Slovakia, Slovenia, and more...
all shipping their weapons inventories to Ukraine
and several other countries "unofficially" shipping weapons

they WILL NEVER be able to taske Odesa
Russians shoud put fresh sunflower seeds in their pockets when they come to Ukraine

If I were a young Russian dewd, I'd get my PHD first, THEN join the military as an OFFICER!, very likely I'd go GRU
and then either be an English/Russian translator or analyst of some kind, might even be able to wear civilian clothing most of the time!!
make "all kind" of "killer connections"
so for smart dewds, military service in Russia is pretty easy, it's only dumbphuques from provinces who end up as canon fodder



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 08, 2022, 01:24:48 AM















If I were a young Russian dewd, I'd get my PHD first, THEN join the military as an OFFICER!, very likely I'd go GRU
and then either be an English/Russian translator or analyst of some kind, might even be able to wear civilian clothing most of the time!!
make "all kind" of "killer connections"
so for smart dewds, military service in Russia is pretty easy, it's only dumbphuques from provinces who end up as canon fodder


Do the dumbphuques  include Generals,Fighter and Helicopter Pilots too ?


Plenty of  those Orcs ending up as cannon fodder in Ukraine too  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 08, 2022, 04:20:13 AM
Dear Friends,
If you like top-notch military information, I would recommend you:
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2022, 07:32:13 AM
"Do the dumbphuques  include Generals,Fighter and Helicopter Pilots too ?"

Hell yes!
and they are a small fraction of total casualties, under 1% combined

I'm just sayin, that if you're "smart" you can still do your military service, and come out in one piece
and end up with some pretty damn good stories to tell your children and grandchildren
it all depends on your test scores especially in mechanics and electronics sections

I worked as an enlisted man on radars in the American and Israeli Armies, and was never, ever in harm's way
if I were Russian, I'd have gotten my education FIRST, and used my college deferment
THEN gone into a technical branch like the GRU, as a FREAKING OFFICER!!

hardest part of this for me, was "Basic Training" in the summer
Israeli was the worst, ran all the time, practiced "water discipline" and was thirsty ALL THE TIME
after "Basic" it's just months of sitting in a classroom, studying trouble shooting theory and periodic testing, but maintaining "full military discipline" marching, saluting morning fall-ins easy, peasy
I worked in heated, air conditioned buildings
and could do WTF I wanted to after 6 PM

a young, baby faced soldier like me, wearing his uniform in public, could only go about 10 minutes before some MILF would approach me
they ALL wanted to MOTHER ME and smother me with their ample bosums!!!
Oh man, I freakin LOVED IT!
at age 18, I became a "nipple man", nipples were my acquired preference
loved rolling them around under my tongue
I didn't need Ukraine AT ALL, back when I was "white and fluffy"

In Russia YOU ARE YOUR NETWORK
starting out young in some network like the GRU
is a stepping stone to better networks
it's even better if you're young and married
but even single, out of all the connections you make
there will be at least 3 or 4, that will connect you "to some bizness" opportunity


for all the ladies...
here's a pic of me as a teenage soldier
 
PS, you can only criticize "my look" if you supply your own picture of your 18 yr old self
no pic, no criticism




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: kynrazor on May 08, 2022, 06:35:39 PM
Krimster, ML, all,

I need help to exchange usd or sgd currency for rubles. I'm unable to physically go to Russia at the moment for legal reasons. Practically, I will require someone trustworthy who has a ruble bank account in Russia. I send you usd to your usd bank account, then my girl receives ruble from your ruble bank account. The amount wouldn't be much, maybe ~70,000 rub for this operation.

My girl has been struggling financially in Russia and I need to send her some money to help her cover at least some expenditures the next couple of months. This is exacerbated by the fact that both her mom and pop have seen their incomes dry up spectacularly, particularly mom, the breadwinner who has been forced by her employer to take holidays as her employer's factory runs out of parts (literally furlough).

It's another long story why I haven't brought her out of Russia after all this time. In case anyone's wondering, yes it's the same girl all these years and yes I don't normally send her money. Fully appreciate anyone who can viably lend a hand.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2022, 07:04:49 PM
if she lives in a big city, like Moscow, go tell her to find a bitcoin exchange
a place where you can buy and sell bitcoin
tell her to go there, and see what kind of ID she needs to show to them to exchange bitcoin for rubles
once she gets these details, wire her $1000 worth of bitcoin, you'll pay maybe 2% and so will she...
you can buy bitcoin on-line, google it
I do this on a regular basis, but can't provide details, as they are my own personal ones
payments to mistresses, illegitimate children, etc


OTOH, sending money to Russians is a BAD IDEA
the only people I send money to are my children, and I can do wire transfers straight to their bank in Tel Aviv
and pay their credit cards, etc

my advice, be sure you know WHY you are spending this money, i.e. "the real reason"
what is it buying for you, her gratitude?
you can tell me, c'mon now...


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 08, 2022, 07:06:15 PM
I have no bank accounts in Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: kynrazor on May 08, 2022, 07:20:12 PM
@ML Thanks.

@Krimster2 I was hoping there were better options. We'll try to go with the crypto route if this is the best way.

Nothing much I expect from her. Just the usual optimistic future family happily ever after which we both have been working towards for years. Right now just lending a small hand.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2022, 09:54:08 PM
for a limited time, you can wire money to the following banks

Sberbank,
Gazprombank

you friend would have to open an account at one of these banks
and you just do a regular wire transfer

eventually, these banks will be sanctioned, so this'll probably only work this year...
ask how she can receive money, choice, or only rubles, if choice, take dollars

tell her to go to the biggest local branch of one of these two banks
and ask about receiving wire transfers, currency choice, etc...

If you have all the codes and account numbers, names, etc, then you can do a wire transfer to Russia for about $35 and it takes less than 2 min on-line
other banks are blocked!
only these two!!




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on May 08, 2022, 11:36:29 PM
The Struggle For Ukraine also affects some of us with Ukraine wives.  My MIL and her son are hiding out away from Kiev.  They left the apartment that Larissa owns in Kiev.  Larissa has been nervous about her family still their.  She has pretty much given up over her apartment in Yalta once the Russians took over Crimea.  Her son moved to Israel a year or so ago and is doing well.

It was interesting going through my old trip reports and photos reminding me of my time in the (now) southern combat areas.  Also am thankful that I got to spend time in Crimea which has been closed since the takeover.

I hope the other members with family members in Ukraine are joining in prayer for them.

Doug
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2022, 05:51:28 AM
Krimster, ML, all,

I need help to exchange usd or sgd currency for rubles. I'm unable to physically go to Russia at the moment for legal reasons. Practically, I will require someone trustworthy who has a ruble bank account in Russia. I send you usd to your usd bank account, then my girl receives ruble from your ruble bank account. The amount wouldn't be much, maybe ~70,000 rub for this operation.

My girl has been struggling financially in Russia and I need to send her some money to help her cover at least some expenditures the next couple of months. This is exacerbated by the fact that both her mom and pop have seen their incomes dry up spectacularly, particularly mom, the breadwinner who has been forced by her employer to take holidays as her employer's factory runs out of parts (literally furlough).

It's another long story why I haven't brought her out of Russia after all this time. In case anyone's wondering, yes it's the same girl all these years and yes I don't normally send her money. Fully appreciate anyone who can viably lend a hand.

No! Dont send her money!! Scammer, Scammer!!!

Lol, just joking ;D

Funny it sounds like a dodgy ploy you get though I'm sure with her it's not Kyn.

Well I'm not sure about years, 3 or 4 maybe since you met her?

Not sure how things are going to play out with Russia, you would have to be hoping that a new iron curtain doesn't descend. If there's one thing I've learnt in that last few years that counting on stuff being the right way for future plans isn't often a great idea as things can get in the way and mess them up. Could you have gotten with her sooner in the west?

If I had a more conspiratorial mind she might have been turned against westerners and in favour of Pootin's Russia  ;D

I think she's likely pretty sound Kyn but possibly leaving her out there too long may not be the best idea, she might tire and wonder if you are for real or just living a fantasy and go for a local option instead perhaps?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2022, 05:58:19 AM
everyone loves treason
but everyone hates a traitor

Pied Piper of War

play a song, so the young will march to their graves cheerfully
play your magic melody

so, the next stage of the war is “the mobilization phase”
Ukraine is going to raise 300,000

Russia’s number is unclear, it could be from 300,000 to 800,000

as long as the West can keep Ukrainian troops better equipped
than Russia can equip Russian troops
Ukraine stands a chance of surviving the war of attrition that is on it’s way…

as both sides start “bleeding each other”
the side that passes out first, loses…
the side with the most brass knuckles, nun-chucks, nosh and britva will be the one standing

there are no troops who are more motivated than those whose families are in shelters behind their lines
The full industrial might of the USA will be behind them when Biden signs the first "Lend Lease" Bill since WWII, it will be signed on Victory Day, how ya like them apples, Putin?
oh and add UK, Netherlands, Canada,  Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Germany, Albania, Bulgaria, Austria
Croatia, Cze4ch Republic, Greece, Turkey, Slovakia, Slovenia, and more...
all shipping their weapons inventories to Ukraine
and several other countries "unofficially" shipping weapons

they WILL NEVER be able to taske Odesa
Russians shoud put fresh sunflower seeds in their pockets when they come to Ukraine

If I were a young Russian dewd, I'd get my PHD first, THEN join the military as an OFFICER!, very likely I'd go GRU
and then either be an English/Russian translator or analyst of some kind, might even be able to wear civilian clothing most of the time!!
make "all kind" of "killer connections"
so for smart dewds, military service in Russia is pretty easy, it's only dumbphuques from provinces who end up as canon fodder

I'm surprised both sides haven't sent their infantry in en-masse all at once with the high number of casualties that usually entails to try to gain the upper hand. That's what has happened in some wars in the past. Russia with the greater number of soldiers on call is most likely to try that I would have thought, flood the enemy with a big ground infantry push and hope it overwhelms them. Tanks if course has ended up a non-starter for them. So if they aren't going to use their chemical or weapons of mass destruction then it's all they've got left I would have thought. The west is tooling up Ukrainian's army fast so I don't reckon Russia will get any further with the strategy it's been using to date. Which leaves the question, what next?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Nightwish on May 09, 2022, 08:39:08 AM
powerful speach
http://youtu.be/Ky796BUuB0s
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: kynrazor on May 09, 2022, 05:30:15 PM

Not sure how things are going to play out with Russia, you would have to be hoping that a new iron curtain doesn't descend. If there's one thing I've learnt in that last few years that counting on stuff being the right way for future plans isn't often a great idea as things can get in the way and mess them up. Could you have gotten with her sooner in the west?

If I had a more conspiratorial mind she might have been turned against westerners and in favour of Pootin's Russia  ;D

I think she's likely pretty sound Kyn but possibly leaving her out there too long may not be the best idea, she might tire and wonder if you are for real or just living a fantasy and go for a local option instead perhaps?

There is a primary factor to this @Trench. She's still studying for her first degree in Russia in order to satisfy a long sought-after ambition put in place by her mother, though we all know how irrelevant these are outside of Russia, at least most of the time. Until she finishes this and gets her expected red diploma with highest academic honours, she stays in Russia and we see each other when fate allows. Lots of thirsty local options have always been available to her, if she wishes.

This disastrous war is ruining the innocent lives and livelihoods of too many, all to satisfy certain factions in power, and the sooner all this madness ends the better. The era of militaristic adventures needs to be retired to the annals of history!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 09, 2022, 06:18:50 PM
http://images.dailykos.com/images/1067864/large/victory-day-full.jpg?1652113221
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Brillynt on May 10, 2022, 04:57:30 AM
The era of militaristic adventures needs to be retired to the annals of history!

That will never happen in the era of human beings.
History proves this point.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 10, 2022, 05:08:37 AM
Some M777 Howitzers now being used in the Donbas region.


310 Ukrainian troops have been trained in how to  use them so far.


In other news  there were Freedom Of Russia Legion flags being carried and flown outside Houses of Parliament in London over the weekend...alongside Ukrainian flags.


Title: Five Russian governors resigned today
Post by: ML on May 10, 2022, 07:04:15 AM


On May 10, 2022 in Russia, the governors of five regions at once submitted their resignations: Tomsk, Kirov, Ryazan and Saratov regions, as well as the Republic of Mari El.

Детальніше:  http://socportal.info/en/news/four-russian-governors-resign-in-one-day/
Title: More Russian soldiers refuse to fight in Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 10, 2022, 07:09:17 AM
    More and more Russian soldiers are starting to rebel and refuse to go to war in Ukraine. This is especially true for those invaders who were sent to regroup after their units suffered a crushing defeat from the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Kyiv region, the report says.

The SBU refers to new intercepted telephone conversations of the Russian military.

http://socportal.info/en/news/sbu-prognoziruet-bunt-russkikh-voennykh-posle-porazhenii-v-ukraine/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 10, 2022, 07:30:20 AM
kynrazor,

You should tell your Russian girlfriend that “Life is Short”
why should she waste her time pursuing a dead-end degree in Russia just because “mama said”
and why should YOU waste your time on a woman who can’t commit to living with you
because she is unwilling to change her life
and now you’re giving her money…
you are TOTALLY playing her game
you THINK you’re in a “relationship”
but you’re not….

Go find a real girlfriend who is willing to share your life
and stop playing her game
unless, of course, YOU TO are afraid of changing your life
so pretending to, is an acceptable substitute
and is an emotional crutch for you

now, even a geezer like me, could pick up a super-hot trophy wife in Ukraine
with hardly any effort
because I know HOW TO FREAKING DO IT!
Been There! Done THAT! AND got the T-Shirt!

but there are a lot of you who don't have have any clue about it
and just flail in the water, instead of swimmin like a shark about to catch his next meal


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 10, 2022, 07:43:43 AM

Now, even a geezer like me, could pick up a super-hot trophy wife in Ukraine with hardly any effort . . .

OK . . . but then would you know what to do with her ???
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 10, 2022, 07:55:33 AM
well... DUH!
show her the closet where I keep the cleaning supplies
and show her where everything is in the kitchen!

it's even better if you "breed them"
and make new kitchen help
this'll allow you to live a life of luxury
with your "female household staff"
once you train them!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: kynrazor on May 10, 2022, 09:00:16 AM
kynrazor,

You should tell your Russian girlfriend that “Life is Short”
why should she waste her time pursuing a dead-end degree in Russia just because “mama said”
and why should YOU waste your time on a woman who can’t commit to living with you
because she is unwilling to change her life
and now you’re giving her money…
you are TOTALLY playing her game
you THINK you’re in a “relationship”
but you’re not….

Go find a real girlfriend who is willing to share your life
and stop playing her game
unless, of course, YOU TO are afraid of changing your life
so pretending to, is an acceptable substitute
and is an emotional crutch for you

now, even a geezer like me, could pick up a super-hot trophy wife in Ukraine
with hardly any effort
because I know HOW TO FREAKING DO IT!
Been There! Done THAT! AND got the T-Shirt!

but there are a lot of you who don't have have any clue about it
and just flail in the water, instead of swimmin like a shark about to catch his next meal

 :clapping: :truce: I respect your confidence & hustle krimster. She wanted to leave everything behind for me back then, but I sided with her mama. I guess, I don't know what I can add, except maybe I'm not as good an opportunist.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: kynrazor on May 10, 2022, 09:03:15 AM
well... DUH!
show her the closet where I keep the cleaning supplies
and show her where everything is in the kitchen!

it's even better if you "breed them"
and make new kitchen help
this'll allow you to live a life of luxury
with your "female household staff"
once you train them!

They are cute young uns. Probably still are very much so. I see their resemblances in you krimster. Happy to see you're blessed with two beautiful responsible daughters.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 10, 2022, 09:08:29 AM
they're grown and married now...
so I have a household staff shortage!!!

stop working against yourself
know what you want
and find someone who wants the same thing
this is step one!

you're young, got lots of time
my advice, try some local girls, "just for fun"
it'll help ya learn what your rough spots are in relationships
and give you a chance to work on it
best thing you can do now is focus on your career
so you can support a family in the future
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 10, 2022, 09:29:18 AM
Explosions in Crimea....near the regional boundary with Kherson region.


The ensuing plume of smoke looks very impressive  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 10, 2022, 11:18:38 AM
The Orcs are fleeing in terror again N of Kharkiv..just as they did N of Kyiv...blowing up Bridges behind them to slow down the angry Ukrainians rapidly advancing on them.


The Ukrainians are particularly angry because they're finding Bucha-like scenes among civilians in the areas N  and E of Kharkiv that are being liberated from the Russian Orcs.


The Orc reinforcements over the border in Russia are being told to hold the line.rather than try to advance into Ukraine, in total fear of the Ukrainians advancing into Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 10, 2022, 03:42:34 PM
The Orcs are fleeing in terror again N of Kharkiv..just as they did N of Kyiv...blowing up Bridges behind them to slow down the angry Ukrainians rapidly advancing on them.


The Ukrainians are particularly angry because they're finding Bucha-like scenes among civilians in the areas N  and E of Kharkiv that are being liberated from the Russian Orcs.


The Orc reinforcements over the border in Russia are being told to hold the line.rather than try to advance into Ukraine, in total fear of the Ukrainians advancing into Russia.
 
Yep I confirm that Ukraine regains some ground in this oblast.   
It is also likely to put some pressure on the rest of the front and prevents some Russian serious offensive on other sectors. 
It's probably showing that now Ukrainians, at this most, have gained some tactical initiative. 
It will be worse in the next weeks as the 155mm, T72, Guepard, and other military stuff will all be operational on the front. They will also have more trained troops. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 10, 2022, 05:26:30 PM
It would be easier for Pootin to cut-off the weapons at their source rather than at their destination
so I would expect a major push by Pootin to influence elections in NATO countries
hoping to elect “Russian-friendly” leaders
who’ll stop the weapons flow
meanwhile, he just has to hang on to what he’s grabbed

Pootin used his heavy bombers for the first time
TU-95s are an underutilized and under appreciated resource…
and evidently unloved, I don’t know why
ask the Viet Cong what saturation bombing from B-52s felt like

Victory Day was a “nothing burger”
so whatever Pootin is going to do, it is NOT going to be public until after the fact
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 11, 2022, 01:46:30 AM
It would be easier for Pootin to cut-off the weapons at their source rather than at their destination
so I would expect a major push by Pootin to influence elections in NATO countries
hoping to elect “Russian-friendly” leaders
who’ll stop the weapons flow
meanwhile, he just has to hang on to what he’s grabbed

Pootin used his heavy bombers for the first time
TU-95s are an underutilized and under appreciated resource…
and evidently unloved, I don’t know why
ask the Viet Cong what saturation bombing from B-52s felt like

Victory Day was a “nothing burger”
so whatever Pootin is going to do, it is NOT going to be public until after the fact
In the areas covered by the S300 Russians are NOT gonna to send any bombers. If they did it in Mariupol it's because they were out of the heavy Ukrainian  SAM umbrella.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 11, 2022, 01:47:15 AM
It would be easier for Pootin to cut-off the weapons at their source rather than at their destination
so I would expect a major push by Pootin to influence elections in NATO countries
hoping to elect “Russian-friendly” leaders
who’ll stop the weapons flow
meanwhile, he just has to hang on to what he’s grabbed

Pootin used his heavy bombers for the first time
TU-95s are an underutilized and under appreciated resource…
and evidently unloved, I don’t know why
ask the Viet Cong what saturation bombing from B-52s felt like

Victory Day was a “nothing burger”
so whatever Pootin is going to do, it is NOT going to be public until after the fact
He would have loved Marine Le Pen to be elected.  Sure
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 11, 2022, 07:34:36 AM
Russian Disinformatze will focus on inflation
and how inflation is the fault of non Russian loving politicians
and if only there were more Russian loving politicians, then inflation would be less
simple...

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 11, 2022, 08:52:50 AM
:clapping: :truce: I respect your confidence & hustle krimster. She wanted to leave everything behind for me back then, but I sided with her mama. I guess, I don't know what I can add, except maybe I'm not as good an opportunist.

Mistakes can be made dating a FSW, I've made a few. A lot of the problem is I think we go over there with the values we are taught here in the west influenced by Feminism. Out there they are not so familiar with these values and they can mess a relationship up. As far as I can see it's recognising how things are over there and not applying western values. Now that I've learnt that I feel better placed not to mess up again, hopefully. While I think you have possibly made mistakes Kyn it may remain to be seen whether it will screw up the relationship you might still be ok. Worst thing about making mistakes early on in a relationship in the FSU is that I think a lot of the time the damage is often already done and it can be undoable.

Myself I have tended to move in favour of living out there (in Ukraine, Odesa) when this war is over - I'm hoping not too long. It just bypasses a hell of a lot of bs, concerns, worries, etc. I think with FSW you are not really in their life unless you are actually 'in it' day to day. I think that's when many FSW let you into their lives instead of being an outsider. Otherwise the danger is that they just see you as some guy they see every so often and that's when potentially problems can start with them seeing you as something other to their actual life. Getting in and living with her often and so being relevant to her day to day is where it's at I believe. That's the way I look at FSU dating now anyway. Some people can yack on for hours on end on video chat as a possible alternative perhaps but I think that is more for those that like to live that lifestyle for me it's not the way I like to live my life.

Anyway, I guess you'll just have to see how things go with present girl Kyn. I think Krimster gives some good advice though, at a point not too far off in the future that seems logical bring it to a head on moving forward together and if no acceptance then possibly look at other options.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 11, 2022, 09:58:55 AM
The Orcs are fleeing in terror again N of Kharkiv..just as they did N of Kyiv...blowing up Bridges behind them to slow down the angry Ukrainians rapidly advancing on them.

Not all made it across the bridge. :devil:

http://twitter.com/i/status/1524006059110715393
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 11, 2022, 10:03:33 AM
Ukraine's new ballistic can opener seems quite effective.

http://img.pravda.com/images/doc/a/c/ace12ed-rozbyta-genshtab10.jpg
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 11, 2022, 03:31:02 PM
The Orcs have been slaughtered at Bilohorivka by the Ukrainians.


This week they lost two BTG's worth of Military vehicles in the space of 24 hours trying to cross a river on  Pontoon Bridges.


i've seen photo's of untold destroyed Tanks and Armoured Personnel Carriers by the river from the site..jaw dropping stuff.


In other news i was in on  a zoom call with the Azov Battalion and the Marines at the Azovstal Plant in Mariupol over the weekend.


Fortunately for me one of the Staff Officers there spoke perfect English.


The good news is that they've killed more than 2500 invading Orcs and destroyed 60 of their Tanks since February 24th in Mariupol. :)


They've done this with no Air or Artillery support.


The terrible news is that the Orcs have killed more than 25000 civilians there  :(


I really don't see how any kind of peace deal can be agreed with Russia whilst Putler remains in power.He's a war criminal who decorates his butcher troops who have committed the worst atrocities.


How can you rebuild a country with him as your next door neighbour ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on May 12, 2022, 05:00:38 PM
The markets aren't so bleak on Russia. The RUB is the strongest it has been since 2020 and in the trading range it has been in since 2014. Historically markets have provided a forward indication of the likely outcomes of war. Politics is an extension of economics, war is an extension of politics.

RF is swimming in funds, oil revenue is up 50%. They can finance the war a lot longer than Europe can. With the upcoming food crisis there's going to be a flood of migrants from North Africa and the Middle East to Europe... Europe is in a bad, bad way.

http://www.zerohedge.com/markets/what-sanctions-russian-oil-revenues-soar-50-hitting-record-high

The US is facing domestic inflation pressures not seen in 40+ years. Great for Trump! All the bad news is on Biden's watch. Trump would pull out of Ukraine like he did in Afghanistan. The Dems have two and a bit years to blow shit up.

I recommend reading Martin Armstrong. He's apolitical and no BS. He talked about the east of Ukraine splitting off as the most peaceful resolution of the conflict... eight years ago. He also wrote about the covert military support Russia provided to the breakaway regions (with photos).

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/blog/

Sadly this is likely to be a multi-year conflict as it's an unofficial war between NATO and Russia. Things will get even messier when the CCP decide to drop the hammer and invade Taiwan.

I recommend keeping a few of sacks of rice at home. Spending a hundred dollars or a hundred quid on rice may turn out to be a handy insurance policy. We may witness the greatest global food crisis in our life times.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 12, 2022, 05:38:08 PM
Eastern Ukraine doesn’t want to split. It was possible in 2014, but things changed significantly.

As for the Russian economy-

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-09/russia-s-economy-facing-worst-contraction-since-1994

Not much rice is grown in Russia or Ukraine.  The rice I buy is grown in California. I am not going to store it because it may go up $5 for a 10 kg bag.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on May 12, 2022, 08:37:34 PM
As for the Russian economy-
Err... are you forgetting about the west? Over the past three months:
http://www.tradingview.com/markets/indices/quotes-major/

Many markets are down 10-20% since the start of the conflict. That's with massive inflation, the highest in 40+ years, and central bank interest rate rises. Cryptocurrencies and gold are also down. It's a global shit show, not just Russia.

Military spending will only exacerbate inflation. The rich will not be impacted as badly, hence you're not concerned about food prices. But the world is in for a shock.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 12, 2022, 09:38:33 PM
I am not rich.

Inflation predates the invasion.

Even absent the war, markets would have been choppy.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 13, 2022, 07:25:03 AM
Dear Lord Haw Haw

The west has a choice.
They can either “pay the price now” when it will be cheaper
or they can wait until after Putin grabs Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, Moldova, etc
and pay a MUCH steeper price
the smart move is to do it now…
if Putin succeeds in his conquest of Ukraine, it will make Russia MUCH more powerful
this will make each subsequent conquest of his easier and easier
for example, if Putin conquers Ukraine, he’ll just add Ukrainian soldiers to his army of conquest

did you ever hear about a thing called WWII?
Adolph first seized the Rhineland in ‘36
then Austria in ‘38
then Czechoslovakia in ‘39
and then part of Poland in ‘39 which finally triggered WWII

some of us learned a lesson from this
and some of us apparently still want “Peace In Our Time”
but, the peace is only temporary
if you REALLY want peace, Russia must be SOUNDLY DEFEATED
and it’s power reduced, so that it stops its expansionism

inflation, is a small price to pay
when compared to the price Ukrainians are paying
whether we like it, or not, we ARE in this war with them

and if you’re smart, like some of us are
on the day the war started you bought nickle, palladium and oil futures
all my investments are rising with inflation, housing, commodities
I have a huge stockpile of EVERYTHING
I became a major “prepper” during Covid, and will continue this lifestyle

in a couple of months, my sons-in-law will get K-1 visas
and they and my daughters will be living permanently in the USA
I married an FSU woman and took her out of Crimea
and my daughters married two Moscovites
and they took them out of Russia
so me and my family are doing “our bit” for depopulating Russia non-violently, thereby reducing its power

I'm gonna take a guess about you
I'm guessing your scorn for Ukraine, comes from a bad romantic experience there
ever hear the expression, "hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned?"
my understanding is that rejection is a hurtful thing (never experienced it myself)
awww, poor baby
your fee fees got hurt
and to compensate, you became a Putin lover

I never really understood how someone could "screw-up" in Ukraine
things are SO FREAKING EASY there



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 13, 2022, 08:41:13 AM
This is the views of the former Chinese ambassador to Ukraine. This was removed a few hours after it was published. Apparently, it is indicative of the Chinese communist party’s view.

http://gaodawei.wordpress.com/2022/05/10/fmr-prc-amb-to-ukraine-on-russias-impending-defeat-and-international-relations/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 13, 2022, 10:41:34 AM
I make a distinction with Gao Yusheng’s words.
Russia HAS NOT been defeated
Only the terribly misguided initial PLAN to invade Ukraine has been defeated
Russian victory will depend on formulating and implementing a NEW PLAN!

If I were Putin, my next move would be to stop wasting the Iskander and Tochka-U “raketta” on civilians and instead target Ukraine’s high altitude air defense missiles like the S-300 and Ukraine’s remaining fighter aircraft

once they’re destroyed he will have high-altitude air superiority, and can then safely deploy the ancient TU-95 bombers of which he has about 500 to carpet bomb Ukraine’s defenders on the Eastern and southern axis

and while doing this, raise a new army from 1,000,000 reserves and new conscripts to take advantage of the gaps his air force creates

however, if this approach is too complicated, then a simpler approach is to use EMP weapons against Ukrainian defenders

all the Western weapons have complex embedded computers that are subject to destruction by EMP
making them totally useless

The Soviet Union was the World leader in EMP weapons and Russia inherited all this technology
The more the west piles on sanctions against Russia, the fewer they have left to apply in the future
Little threat to Russia from the West with sanctions compared to the benefit of using EMP weapons
Indeed, it could even serve as a warning to the West
A major EMP attack over North America, would a year after the attack, kill 90% of the population, according to the USA’s own study

the west has only a few small prototypes
Russia has complete large scale systems ready to use either in Ukraine or in North America/Europe

China and North Korea now have nuclear capable ballistic missile submarines
if Russian subs shadowed them and launched from China/North Korean waters
who would the USA blame and what kind of retaliation (considering that EMP weapons would't even break a single window, just shotdown the grid and destoy all computers, phones, etc)

there are people in the GRU researching this right NOW!
what people in the West don't realize
is that Russia has too much at stake to lose this war!
if they lose this war, then the current kleptocracy oligarchy political system will collapse in a couple of years
so THEY have no other choice but to win or die
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 13, 2022, 01:34:49 PM
EMP's don't prevent Nukes being launched and hitting their targets.


So if an EMP would kill 90% of the USA population after a year i'd fully expect the USA would Nuke Russia within that year.


Sure Russia would launch Nukes back,but it wouldn't really matter if the USA population is dying off quickly anyway.


So Russia would be wiped out as well as the USA.


I'm sure Putler is well aware of this.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 13, 2022, 02:29:18 PM
Russia’s killer EMP attack on the West could be done with a handful of warheads
the casualties would take time, a year to reach full effect…
literally, not even a single window would be broken from an EMP attack
all we’d see would be a couple of REALLY bright flashes in the sky
it's rumored that the EMP weapons are already in orbit
we think they’re spy satellites
but they’re NOT!

What if immediately after the attack
Russia announces that if ANY missiles come to Russia, they will immediately target all Western cities in response
would the West still attack?

Russia has spent a LOT of effort simulating this and analyzing Western responses under different scenarios

using them in Ukraine would be easy, and totally wipe out all western weapons except artillery and firearms

there are plans to use China and North Korea as scapegoats
and I imagine these countries have similar plans with Russia as the scapegoat
so if this happens, I doubt we’ll ever know who really is responsible
or even care

if Pootin is dying of cancer already, will he care?
I dunno...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 14, 2022, 04:39:03 AM
Horrendous day for the Orcs in eastern Ukraine .


They tried again to cross that river at Bilohorivka and got smashed ...again.


Film of that particular disaster for the Orcs being shown by an incredulous CNN today.


The western supplied 155mm Howitzers are absolutely hammering the Orcs behind their own lines...total carnage.


They've had to dig in to defensive positions around the Zaporizhia oblast because they're failing to advance.


Pro-Russian separatists/traitors against Ukraine from Donetsk and Luhansk being prevented from fleeing into Russia by Russian forces.and are now in danger of being encircled by angry Ukrainian forces.


Orc troops being shelled in the city of Kherson by precision western Artillery..with reports of countless Orcs killed and others arriving at hospitals with serious injuries.


[size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 14, 2022, 04:52:16 AM


What if immediately after the attack
Russia announces that if ANY missiles come to Russia, they will immediately target all Western cities in response
would the West still attack?









Any attack on a NATO country by Russia will immediately elicit a response from all the other NATO countries..so yes the West would attack Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 14, 2022, 04:57:18 AM



using them in Ukraine would be easy, and totally wipe out all western weapons except artillery and firearms






The same would apply to the Orcs weapons in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 14, 2022, 07:06:01 AM
Ukrainian forces now re-taking the Donbas region from the Orcs.


Six towns and villages have now been liberated in the region with the Orcs suffering heavy losses.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2022, 08:01:14 AM
China “got away” with launching a Bio-attack that killed over a million Americans and a similar amount in Europe

I do believe that Russia is more than capable of doing something similar and getting away with it as well

Russia’s economy in a couple of more years on its current course
will become “desperate”
Desperate times will call for desperate measures

Russia’s new leader, will be looking for “magic” that let’s him “pull a rabbit out of his hat”

various labs in Russia will audition for the magic “talent show”
the best will be chosen as the winner and receive fame and more importantly funding

nuclear EMP weapons have a radius that is determined by the height of detonation
so Russia can control this
they can also use “Explosively Pumped Flux Compression Generators” these have a range of only a few hundred yards, but they’re cheap to make so Russia could make thousands and mix them in with conventional bombs and saturate forward Ukrainian positions
Russia was the original inventor of this technology, it’s decades old

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1996/apjemp.htm

of course Russia could skip all this and just go for the Novichok in Ukraine, and not worry what NATO thinks about it

100 KG of the most potent of the Novichoks will kill 50% of the people in a 1 km radius
the US is concerned about this, but the amount of “chemical protection” they provided is too small and ineffective, more symbolic than real

I’m just saying, don’t get used to the idea that this war is winding down and that Russia’s gonna lose
there will be major surprises in store down the road

weird observation:
MIG model numbers are always odd numbers, 15, 17, 19, 21, etc
why is that?

fun video:
Russian Victory Day
http://twitter.com/i/status/1523935155181658112
Title: A COUP to boot "cancer-stricken" Vladimir Putin from power is already underway
Post by: 2tallbill on May 14, 2022, 11:37:04 AM
I would read this article with a grain of salt. I don't know how much credibility
to give an article like this.

A COUP to boot "cancer-stricken" Vladimir Putin from power is already underway, Ukriane's spy chief has claimed.
http://www.the-sun.com/news/5337781/coup-remove-vladimir-putin-underway/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2022, 12:11:57 PM
Great movie
“The Death of Stalin”

The Russian “Urge to Purge” will surge
All oilygarch’s close to Putin will fall out of windows and commit suicide

Will the state suck up oligarch’s assets, or will there just be new oligarchs…
Clans are positioning themselves, first move was to get their families out of Russia
so it’s just clan soldati now
Tambov clan will lose out to Solntsevskaya

if I were still in Russia I’d be making some awesome IEDs right now
and would be in on the looting of private artwork, etc of Tambovs
bummer, that I gotta be a baby sitter instead
but this’ll have its rewards later

PS
Alexander Subbotin, a Lukoil exective just joined the Russian rock band, "The Dead Oligarchs"
the band is growing so fast, it'll soon be called an orchestra
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 14, 2022, 03:57:32 PM
[quote author=krimster2 link=topic=22223.msg565278#msg565278 date=165254047







I’m just saying, don’t get used to the idea that this war is winding down and that Russia’s gonna lose
there will be major surprises in store down the road







As i posted on here before...Russia WILL lose this war,one way or the other.


As i also posted,the only question is how many of us will they take down with them..because nothing the murderous sub-humans will do will surprise me in the slightest.


The thing is not to be afraid of them or show fear..because they feed on fear.


They see signs of morality as weakness.







NATO should stop saying "we don't want a war with Russia " because that lets the Orcs know we have lines we won't cross.


Better NATO doesn't respond to Orc threats and that will start putting doubts in the sub-humans minds as to actually how far NATO is willing to go...let them start worrying about us.


NATO needs to be ready to do whatever it takes ..because life isn't worth living if we spend the rest of it quivering in fear about what the Orcs will do next..
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 14, 2022, 05:08:41 PM
It’s obvious even to me that battlefield strategies are being devised and directed by the US/UK. Thank God for that!  They are heads and shoulders above their Russian counterparts.

I won’t guess on what the future holds. I do hope Russia retreats and that peace prevails.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 14, 2022, 05:20:09 PM
I liked this piece on Ukraine’s Jewish community-

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/ukraine-jewish-community-russia-invasion-resistance-1351070/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2022, 06:25:31 PM
Jews have been outwitting the Russians for centuries
my ancestors were “contrabandit”  in imperial  Russia
and exploited the monopolies the Czar created for their own gain
for example, alcohol production was a monopoly the Czar gave to his druzya
and only they were allowed to produce it
and the Czar “got a piece” of course

but then along come the Zhidsters and make their own that’s even better quality (Kosher!) and cheaper (no Czar tax!)
and they made a small empire out of it while on the surface they were just harmless “peddlers”

I did the same thing, my great uncles taught me EVERYTHING I needed to know when I was a malchick, they were the top Jewish Mafia in Philadelphia, Prohibition was sent from God, as far as they were concerned, my family invested their profits into Mayonnaise and other Food products and created a second family business empire

so whenever laws are created, outlaws will be made as well
in Russia the opposite of an outlaw isn't a law abiding citizen, it's a slave
most Russians will choose slavery
but not my ancestors, and not me

my comments about Russia's future game changing strategy isn't meant to be a fear generator
just a warning about predictability vrs unpredictability
when Putin is gone, you can bet there's gonna be a lot of unpredictability
Putin's future will be clearer 6 months from now
1/8 of Russia's economy will disappear this year
and maybe another 1/8 two years from now
without an offset from aquiring Ukraine, and the leverage it would give over the rest of the world (you vant food, horrosho...just do what I say)
the current order will not survive

I would LOVE to go back to Russia if the winds shift to my favor
I love it there, except for the weather and my current status with the FSB

PS
The only thing more dangerous than a victorious Russia
is a defeated Russia
remember these words

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on May 14, 2022, 10:41:08 PM
http://electrek.co/2022/05/12/this-quiet-electric-motorcycle-is-helping-ukrainian-snipers-fight-back-against-the-russians/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 15, 2022, 07:50:14 AM
UK Intelligence says that the Orcs have now lost a third of the ground forces they started with when they invaded Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2022, 09:41:07 AM
A volshebnick wrote Putin a letter, telling him every reason why the war would fail, including the betrayal by the Silvoki, and slipped it under his door late at night

unfortunately, it slid under a carpet, and Putin didn’t find it, until it was too late

however good our intentions, however advanced our knowledge
we are all subject to changes in fortune that are as random as a roll of the dice at a crapshoot in a dirty alleyway

all of life is but a dream
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on May 15, 2022, 09:47:31 AM
RF is swimming in funds, oil revenue is up 50%. They can finance the war a lot longer than Europe can. With the upcoming food crisis there's going to be a flood of migrants from North Africa and the Middle East to Europe... Europe is in a bad, bad way.

Europe isn't financing anything. Like usual they will pay less than 10% of the
tab, which isn't even a decent tip.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 15, 2022, 12:43:33 PM
The Orcs are now conscripting Ukrainian  women between the ages of 35-50 who are not single mothers, or otherwise don't have at least three children, from the Separatist areas in Ukraine to fight.


They must be getting desperate.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 15, 2022, 04:18:29 PM
Europe isn't financing anything. Like usual they will pay less than 10% of the
tab, which isn't even a decent tip.

The criticism would not work using the US, since even before the invasion, Russia’s entire economy was smaller than that of Texas.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2022, 05:10:48 PM
Russia can’t fix it’s internal economic problems, because the people who control the economy, are the ones who drained and broke it in the first place

the only economic model they understand is to monetize a resource and sell it abroad, and take most of the profits offshore for the chosen few

but they have already done that with what they currently control in Russia, fossil fuels, etc

so there’s no room to expand their way out of the economic malaise they’re in

except…

to gain new territory and new resources

that’s where Ukraine comes in

400 million people depend on Ukraine as a food source
Russian planners know that global warming will within 10 years cause a global food shortage
pushing up demand and prices
adding food to fuel exports, will give Russia TREMENDOUS international leverage

another resource that Russia has in short supply, is people
Russia’s population today, is about where it was in the mid 1980s thanks to a major demographic decline.  In comparison, USA population expanded by 40% during this time


so seizing Ukraine from fascists, nudge, nudge, wink, wink
will solve in the short term the economic and demographic problems
as well as provide a strategic military geographic advantage
side benefit is that during war time, Russians will not be allowed to have anti-Putin protests
cuz it would be so very unpatriotic

this is the wind that’s propelling the sails of the floating Potemkin village
unfortunately, they got lost, and ran the ship aground

so what’s next for this Russian version of Gilligan’s Island
will they just stay on the island
or try to fix the boat and leave?

Hmmmm…..
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 15, 2022, 06:50:22 PM
The criticism would not work using the US, since even before the invasion, Russia’s entire economy was smaller than that of Texas.

Can we just send the Texas Rangers (not the sports team) to take care of the Russian military ?


Texas Rangers | Department of Public Safety
http://www.dps.texas.gov › section › texas-rangers
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2022, 08:45:26 PM
I was playing hide-and-go-seek  with my wife, but she cheated and got the stud finder from my toolbox and found me
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 16, 2022, 04:34:29 AM
I was playing hide-and-go-seek  with my wife, but she cheated and got the stud finder from my toolbox and found me

I like it.

And by coincidence . . . we just finished a session.

Good timing, as wife leaves tomorrow for a trip to Ireland to visit relatives living there and those who came from Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 16, 2022, 06:35:08 AM
The 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade were the elite among the Orcs.


They had just been re-trained for modern warfare and had been equipped with new equipment.


In the Orc disaster at the Bilohorivka Pontoon river crossing they sustained 485 casualties out of a total of 550 and lost 80 vehicles to Ukrainian Artillery.


In other news Ukrainian troops were shown on film on the BBC today at the Orc border and looking like they're keen to push on.


and why not ?


The Orc Miltary is on its knees in Ukraine..either destroyed or bogged down.


Putler would find it very difficult to use his WMD if the Ukrainians have taken Orc cities...as it would mean bombing his own country.


It would be difficult for even him and his regime to hide things like radiation sickness as it spreads across Russia, or all the power going off, from even his gullible citizens.


Uncontrollable wildfires spreading from the east,which will get even worse as summer kicks-in and an angry Ukrainian Military advancing from the South would be very interesting >:D


Taking Russia would be an excellent way to stop the Orcs ever attacking Ukraine again.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 16, 2022, 07:58:43 AM
My mama said:

“no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.  One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.”

and yes, George Orwell was my mother!

so, the Russian dick taters may change faces, but not core goals
the war of Russian dick taters against Ukraine, will be continuing for generations
it’s already been going on for centuries
whatever happens now is only temporary

Meanwhile…

it looks like the Russian plan to encircle Ukrainians in the East has been called off
and in the south, they are changing from offensive operations to defensive

so more or less, Russia has pushed the “pause button” on the war
while they go to the kitchen to “whip up something” and then come back and press the “play button” and continue the movie from where they stopped it
hoping that the freshly made snack will make the "kino" more enjoyable for them

I'm too sexy for my hat, too sexy for my hat
whatcha think about that?

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on May 16, 2022, 09:35:23 AM
The criticism would not work using the US, since even before the invasion, Russia’s entire economy was smaller than that of Texas.

What's that got to do with the absence of air on the moon? The size of Russia's
economy affects French or Belgian aid to Ukraine?

Europe is paying for about 10% of the aid to Ukraine. There is a zero percent
chance of Russia invading the USA. The same can't be said for Europe.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2022, 09:56:06 AM
It’s about how “great” the Russian economy is doing. It’s not, and it never was.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 16, 2022, 10:15:33 AM
The true economic cost of the war is difficult to calculate, cuz even the human cost includes an economic element as well

allegedly, Russia is spending 900 million dollars per day, to directly fund the war
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-spending-estimated-900-million-day-ukraine-war-1704383

so by the end of the month they will have spent roughly 100 billion USD in direct costs

assuming Rand Paul’s effort to derail congressional funding of the war will fail, then the USA will have spent about half this amount during the same period (but of course the 30 billion in aid will largely be in the future, so you have to add some amount to the Russian side, so it may be closer to 1/3 Russia’s spending, say by end of summer

since the war started, crude oil is up about 40%, this may take 1 to 2% out of the USA’s GDP
Russia on the other hand, is expected to lose about 12% due to sanctions this year

then of course, there’s the human cost
Russia has lost a third of its forces KIA or WIA and a LOT of equipment
right now, the KIA is about half what we had in the Vietnam war,  in a 12 year period
while the West has lost a couple of volunteers and journalists

we have gained A LOT of valuable intelligence, and weapons testing
while Russians have received humiliation

I don’t really know what combined European spending is
but I’d expect it to be more than 10% of what the US has spent thus far
it’s too much work to go list country by country, unless someone has already done this work

The west has to look at this expense now, for what it could save it in the future
it’s like auto-maintenance, if you don’t change the oil now, then later, you’ll have to change the engine

if you don’t stop Russia now
then you’ll have to stop Russia and Ukraine later
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2022, 02:16:16 PM
This was on Russian television.

http://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2022, 02:30:12 PM
Good interview-

http://archive.ph/24NYM
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 16, 2022, 02:37:19 PM
This was on Russian television.

http://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882 (http://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882)


I'm surprised he's allowed onto Russian State TV.


I saw him about a week ago on a Russian TV clip somewhere else saying the Russian campaign was going disastrously,and that Russia hasn't got  good enough reserves in their manpower to change the outcome...the rest of the speakers on that particular show looked suicidal when he'd finished talking..it was comical to see their downcast reaction. :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 16, 2022, 02:48:20 PM
Good interview-

http://archive.ph/24NYM (http://archive.ph/24NYM)


Very concerning news tonight that the wounded Military from the Azovstal plant have surrendered to Russian forces and are being taken to Russian controlled Donbas.


If the reports are correct i can't see any of them being seen alive again. :(


If it was me i'd sooner suffer and die in the steel plant,surrounded by friends and colleagues, than let those Orcs get their hands on me and torture me to death.


People are waiting for Zelensky's statement tonight for clarification.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 16, 2022, 03:24:27 PM
Update from Ukrainian Military.


53 seriously wounded troops taken to a hospital in Novoazovsk,which is in Russian controlled Donbas.


211 have been taken to the infamous RUS/DNR filtration camp at Olenivka . (where some might be lucky enough to survive the interrogations for POW swaps with Orcs.)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 16, 2022, 05:06:01 PM
in “Russki yazyk” this is the public’s first preview of the War’s new direction
kinda like a strip tease that slowly reveals what’s beneath after removing the obscuring garments one at a time… and this video was the first glove to drop off

so, if there ain’t a massive mobilization (most likely choice to get off Gilligan’s Island)
then it’s gotta be Novichok  or Nukes
if it’s Nukes, then I’m predicting a warning shot in space at night first, to warn the west about any escalating after Russia uses WMDs, I really do have my camera ready pointed out the large window overlooking the back porch focused on the sky to catch it
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2022, 09:40:18 PM
CB, he could have been allowed to appear if Russian strategy, or even retreat, is being reconsidered.

My preference would be a negotiated peace, perhaps give up Crimea.

Here’s another military analysis-

http://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-ingenious-strategy-that-could-win-the-war-for-ukraine-20220517-p5alz4.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 16, 2022, 11:37:30 PM
in “Russki yazyk” this is the public’s first preview of the War’s new direction
kinda like a strip tease that slowly reveals what’s beneath after removing the obscuring garments one at a time… and this video was the first glove to drop off

so, if there ain’t a massive mobilization (most likely choice to get off Gilligan’s Island)
then it’s gotta be Novichok  or Nukes
if it’s Nukes, then I’m predicting a warning shot in space at night first, to warn the west about any escalating after Russia uses WMDs, I really do have my camera ready pointed out the large window overlooking the back porch focused on the sky to catch it


USA/NATO isn't backing down as the USA on Saturday successfully tested a  new hypersonic weapon...with" speeds five times greater than the speed of sound ".


The test,which was conducted in the Pacific off the coast of California,comes just weeks after the UK,USA and Australia agreed to work together on hypersonic and anti-hypersonic weaponry.


As for Putler using ANY WMD,including Nukes ,then NATO has already told him that nothing will be off the table in their response to that.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 17, 2022, 12:47:45 AM
The Orcs suffer losses in heavy fighting near Sievierodonetsk,retreat on several more fronts.


However,they continue their offensive in the eastern Donbas region with their main efforts focused on Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2022, 01:24:48 AM
Observations of an American military commander-

http://www.thebulwark.com/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-heres-what-i-saw-in-the-russian-and-ukrainian-armies/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 17, 2022, 01:54:30 AM
I've just been watching a CNN report on the SBU arresting spies for the Orcs in Ukraine.


The SBU are arresting one or two spies a day.


They caught one today in Slovyansk..he was recruited online and gets paid $10 for any info he gives the Orcs about Ukrainian military installations/housing  in the area so they can be targeted...the SBU checked his phone and the Orcs were thanking him for the info from him they'd successfully used the previous day.


Seriously,what kind of person gives up the lives of people for $10 ?


He'll get life imprisonment if successfully convicted .


I'd have shot him on the spot..but that's just me.


Maybe they do when the TV cameras are not present. >:D


This was always my biggest concern in this war in that there are so many ethnic pro-Russians living in Ukraine,who will happily betray the Ukrainians they live among.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2022, 07:08:16 AM
I am well aware of the existence of the AGM-183A
However, this is a prototype years away from deployment
meanwhile, Russia has used about 12 hypersonic missiles in Ukraine with conventional warheads

Russia has “talked the talk” about nukes
but at some point, “reality” may force them to “walk the walk” in Ukraine

Russia has about 2,000 tactical nukes, including neutron bombs and nuclear EMP bombs
no problem for them to change warheads

the USA and NATO have conducted themselves with a strategy of “minimum risk” to themselves
that has “telegraphed” to Russia what they will or will not do
NATO’s strategy is to WEAKEN Russia, while receiving minimal physical damage in return

Russia can signal to NATO that ANY use of direct military force by NATO will be meant with a nuclear response

this is called “raising the bet”
I don’t think NATO would cover that bet, and they’d fold

I don’t think it would take more than a handful of tactical nukes against Ukraine’s military
and maybe Kiev, for the war to come to a close

an alternative to the nukes would be Novichok, which would not be “as clean” to use as nukes
because deploying Novichok takes a lot of skill, nukes just require a warhead substitution

by using nukes, Russia will change the dynamics of the game both for Ukraine and the West
neither really has a response if Russia uses nukes (this is why the USA's response is so vague)
and the Russians know this

the problem is this:
Russia has already spent 100 billion USD on funding the war, and have had hundreds of billions of state and oligarch assets seized, and their economy will lose hundreds of billions of USD each year due to sanctions, not to mention KIA/WIA and equipment losses
to suffer this much loss, without gaining anything in return will not be acceptable to them
if they were successful in reconquering Ukraine and controlling all its resources
my balance sheet says, it would be worth the price they paid
and I’m sure they’ve reached a similar conclusion
so IMHO, "the numbers" dictate that Russia will do what it's gonna do
always understand, that whenever there's a big "imbalance"
something will ALWAYS come along to push it to the other side
it's nature's way

PS
This Sunday CNN will have an interview with Trevor Reed, the ex-marine imprisoned in Russia on esionage charges
you can be sure, I'm gonna watch this, while thinking, "there but for the grace of god..."
even though I have many "get out of jail cards"
after a day in solitary, I become "feral" and that freaks out Russians

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 17, 2022, 07:45:52 AM
A report from Melitopol.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/05/23/a-ukrainian-city-under-a-violent-new-regime
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2022, 07:59:13 AM
if'n it were my town, before Russians came in, I'd buy as much vodka as I could, and put a drop of ethyl mercury (easy to make) in each bottle
and put the bottles somewhere that's easy for the soldiers to find...
and then walk around with a big ass grin on my face

too bad there wouldn't be a way to buy life insurance policies on Russian soldiers
cuz then I could use those funds to buy more vodka and make more ethyl mercury
and move from occupied town to occupied town

who can make the sun shine?
the vodka man can
cuz he mixes it with love and makes the vodka taste good

it's fun being a chemical partisan
and by the time they'd all die, I'd be somewhere far, far away

yalky palky
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 17, 2022, 09:25:17 AM
CB, he could have been allowed to appear if Russian strategy, or even retreat, is being reconsidered.

My preference would be a negotiated peace, perhaps give up Crimea.

Here’s another military analysis-

http://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-ingenious-strategy-that-could-win-the-war-for-ukraine-20220517-p5alz4.html

Mikael as a retired air force colonel  is most often the voice of reason on that propangada fest.
He made good comments regarding sable rattling at finland only looking foolish,and the geo political.isolation. tropp trainingva motivation of ukranuans being the key factor, referencing lenin thoughts on same...

As such,knowing he is a paid propagandist for state tv,  i took this as the typicsl.seeding of information to the shows demographic,older russians.
To.prepare them for russian change in policy in this conflict. To gibe them.a background of why* its beneficial.for russia to back.up

State propangada going thos route seems a very good sign for ukraine
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2022, 01:24:16 PM
Russia ain’t gonna back up, for reasons I explained above
they really have only one choice now
victory, by whatever means necessary
and if the first method failed
well then, bring on harsher methods
backing up would bring defeat and breakup the empire
an unacceptable condition
the propaganda is just a “smokescreen”

they also can’t just remain where they are and play defense
because Ukraine will keep chipping away at them
and they’ll suffer these losses for no gain

there is really just one choice
Russians can decide the specifics, the where and when and how many
but backup? Defeat?  No freakin way
but there may be a short term advantage in making the enemy think they are

young people in Ukraine, especially women should get iodine tablets
just sayin

Read a book called “Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin”

this book is about the earlier history of the same struggle going on now but in a different time and different players (but same game)

I took a shitload of drugs in Auschwitz and Baba-yar to help me get to their center (to help ignore the tourists and emotions)
because the only way to do that is to be in an "altered state"
once you see the path it left in the past, you can keep tracing it on into the future and see it there as well

If the Russians go down this path
the smart thing for them to do
is to wait for Ukraine to mobilize and deploy the reserves they’re building up
and THEN hit the Ukrainians with “baby nukes”
as well as Kiev
and the oblasts will all fall like dominoes
game over, when there ain’t no more central government and no more Ukrainian troops to stand in the way

Odesa would be an easy target for Novichok
sure, go hide in the catacombs…

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 18, 2022, 07:59:43 AM
Glory be to the Bomb, and to the Holy Fallout. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end.

(chorus)
Putin can beat anyone at dominoes

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 18, 2022, 09:38:56 AM
Russian soldiers of the 70th Motorized Rifle Regiment of the 42nd Motor Rifle  Division,located in the Zaporizhzia region of Ukraine, openly refuse to take part in the war and demand to return to their homeland.


This is how Despotic Regimes start to fall apart...Nukes or not.


The Freedom Of Russia Legion has been in touch with the rebels and asked if they'd like to fight alongside fellow Russian soldiers against Putler and his Regime.


In other news two high-ranking Russian senior officials were this week assassinated in Melitopol by partizans..the Orc bodies continue to pile up in that particular Russian Occupied city.


and..looks like i was correct about the Azovstal fighters not being seen again after they surrendered to the Orcs...after the Russians changed the narrative about POW swaps to now holding trials and possibly executing them.


Zelensky was either incredibly naive about trusting the Orcs and telling his troops to surrender to them or they'd  run out of ammo and had no option.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 18, 2022, 10:22:08 AM
Mikael warned Russians about "information tranquilizers" in the video from Kremlin-TV (All Lies! All The Time!)
but this warning applies to both sides
don't you see how western media is giving you your daily fix of "victory"
so you continue to support the pushers
the one thing they're afraid of is people in the west getting tired of the war and losing interest

Russian wars always involve Russia having MASSIVE losses
but Russian perseverance is omnipotent
they ain't gonna give up over these losses
because such numbers are just "statistics"

the only thing that would be worse than a Russian victory in Ukraine
would be a Russian defeat
because that would lead to something much worse happening

"no army on earth, can stop an idea whose time has come"
Russia's future direction is dictated by things beyond their control
they have no choice but to do things that would sound insane to us
no choice...
so it's gonna happen
it all comes down to timing
it'll be sometime in the window of the fall of this year to early 2024


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 18, 2022, 11:42:02 AM
 A revolt within Russia would likely be very bad for the west.

This to me is an attempt weaken them,yet not so far as to destroy the current admin.

Either way I do agree their fate is unlikely  completely in thier hands through this.

Ideas have consequences, bad ideas have victims.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2022, 03:23:41 PM
A lot of people having their whole lives destroyed in this war and being left in a dreadful state. This BBC news report highlights one of the most unfortunate individuals who has lost his entire family and hence pretty much all he had in life, I found it pretty explicit in showing how bad life can become overnight if unfortunate enough:

BBC News - Ukraine: The police officer who lost his family in one Russian strike
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61451469

They were showing the TV version on BBC News, the guy showed the TV crew all the way around where his family home was and how the poor chap found what had happened to his family. Pretty atrocious that someone has to endure all of that, I don't know how the guy has held it together so far, he's pretty much lost everything and is left alone, pretty much every one he knew and close to gone. Seemed surprisingly composed for the most part at least for the cameras I would guess. Still turning up for work by the looks of it, I'm not sure I would want to go on in his place but probably he's in an uncertain place and can't really register it. His wife looks like she was quite a stunner, if I managed to get a pretty girl like that I would be quite happy I would think. Anyhow thought it worth posting up for any non-UK guys on here as really brings home how bad some people can suffer out there and what the war can take away from them, in some cases their whole happy prior lives.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on May 18, 2022, 03:49:31 PM
I was playing hide-and-go-seek  with my wife, but she cheated and got the stud finder from my toolbox and found me

Clever girl!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 18, 2022, 04:29:31 PM
Da!  together we oppose moose and squirrel!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 19, 2022, 04:01:25 AM
Sanctions against Russia now starting to cripple them.


Russia's Central Bank admits that sanctions have disrupted supply chains.


Weapons manufacturers suspending activity due to lack of parts.


Defence companies struggling to replace advanced tech.


Domestic vehicle sales fallen by 80% partly due to lack of components.


Russian crude oil exports down 30% in April and expected to fall further.


Russia forecast to have the deepest recession since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2022, 06:47:40 AM
inspiration
creation
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 19, 2022, 07:12:28 AM
Sanctions against Russia now starting to cripple them.
Russia's Central Bank admits that sanctions have disrupted supply chains.
Weapons manufacturers suspending activity due to lack of parts.
Defence companies struggling to replace advanced tech.
Domestic vehicle sales fallen by 80% partly due to lack of components.
Russian crude oil exports down 30% in April and expected to fall further.
Russia forecast to have the deepest recession since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

All above may be true but . . . Russia has captured a lot of ground and will be executing a lot of Ukrainians that surrendered.

I am surprised that any of the guys who had Nazi tatoos did not just kill themselves rather than surrender.  Would be better for them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 19, 2022, 02:27:44 PM
All above may be true but . . . Russia has captured a lot of ground and will be executing a lot of Ukrainians that surrendered.

I am surprised that any of the guys who had Nazi tatoos did not just kill themselves rather than surrender.  Would be better for them.


There was more fighting at the Azovstal Plant today..with more airstrikes from the Orcs again.


Deputy Commander of the Azov Regiment "Kalina" recorded a video in which he said he's still at the Azovstal Plant .


"The operation continues ,the details of which i will not disclose ".. were his words.


It's quite possible that none of the Azov Battalion surrendered ..for the reason you posted...they will probably choose to go down fighting and take as many of the Orcs with them as possible.


It's what i'd do .


It was probably the Marines,Border Guards and the Police who surrendered.


Yes the Orcs have captured a lot of ground,although not as much as they expected to.


The big question is can they hold the ground they captured ?


They couldn't in the Kyiv or Kharkiv areas...and now a lot more weapons will be flooding to the Ukrainian troops from the West...with a million more Ukrainian men chomping at the bit to be mobilized.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 19, 2022, 03:04:07 PM
Reports coming in that the Marines and Jets based at Miramar and also the 82nd Airborne NC and Navy  out of Richmond VA are prepping for something.


Feedback given from locals is that's it's very reminiscent of the early prepping that was done before they went into Afghanistan and Iraq.


Read into that what you will.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2022, 04:04:52 PM
"Richmond VA" I remember cruising up the James River in my Dad's boat when I was a kid, but not as far as Richmond cuz it's too shallow
so I assume you mean Norfolk, VA, which is the US NAVY HQ of the East Coast, made famous by signs that read, "Sailors and Dogs, Keep Off the Grass"

I suspect they're going to deploy a carrier, the aptly named "USS George Bush" probably to the Baltic, and will add a few thousand marines and airborne to Poland to supplement what's already there

these numbers by themselves are insignificant
it does mean that the USA thinks things are gonna get "hotter" and not "cooler"
and possibly the ground forces might be used for training and support for future massive weapons delivery
but a force this isze is NOT for offensive operations, unless it keeps building like this every week

so calm down...
or you're gonna force me to show you my collection of Crimean War era English coins I dug up metal detecting from scouting the location of Florence Nightengale's Field Hospital on the outskirts of Sevastopol
where most of the British soldiers died of Cholera and not battle wounds

when given an elixer of opium to control the Diarrhea
one soldier said the treatment was very effective, "I shit thee not"

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 19, 2022, 04:27:53 PM
Prepping also happening at Lejuene it's now reported by locals.


The Crimean War..another war noted for it's brutality.


Have you had those coins valued Krim ?




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2022, 04:54:16 PM
no... but I don't think they're too valuable...
British soldiers were quite poor, so most common coin was a Victorian Penny, which REALLY made my detector ring!!
t'was more fun detecting for Greek coins at Chersonese, got quite a few of those as well, also mosstly bronze

to get "good stuff" you had to do some of that "midnight archeology" and loot a necropolis, I found three of those from Greek and Byzantine period
and detected them at night
I used to have SO MUCH damned fun in Crimea, detecting and "bunker diving"
nude girls at the beach was just icing on the cake
what a fun life I had then
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 19, 2022, 07:23:30 PM
Yes the Orcs have captured a lot of ground,although not as much as they expected to.
The big question is can they hold the ground they captured ?
They couldn't in the Kyiv or Kharkiv areas...

I don't think too much crowing should be done over the Kyiv and Kharkiv developments.

As I saw it . . . Russian forces pulled back because they weren't advancing as they wanted to and could better be deployed elsewhere . . . not because Ukrainian forces were driving them out.

Yes, they didn't achieve their immediate objective . . . but they weren't driven away.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2022, 01:04:55 AM
Possible war scenarios-

http://archive.ph/AD65V
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 20, 2022, 06:32:24 AM
Possible war scenarios-

http://archive.ph/AD65V

A thorough analysis.  Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 20, 2022, 07:32:09 AM
I don't think too much crowing should be done over the Kyiv and Kharkiv developments.

As I saw it . . . Russian forces pulled back because they weren't advancing as they wanted to and could better be deployed elsewhere . . . not because Ukrainian forces were driving them out.

Yes, they didn't achieve their immediate objective . . . but they weren't driven away.
ML this ukrainian commercial pilot dies a great job of covering the puch and pull.of the front lines daily .

http://youtu.be/NINWX5EyHyY
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 20, 2022, 07:58:48 AM
When the laws of genetics are laid down, mutations will be born

and because of that, the presented analysis is too general, the devil dwells in the details

moy druzya, let me introduce you to the “Neutron Bomb”
 
A Kinder, Gentler Nuke
a smaller, "fun-sized" version of a hydrogen bomb with a few simple modifications under the hood.
It will convert 80% of its energy into a radiation burst, instead of 5% for a small fission bomb
For a one-kiloton Enhanced Radiation bomb detonated at 1,500 feet, the required lethal dose would cover an area of about 0.8 square miles
and BTW, a neutron bomb is almost exactly the same as a small EMP bomb
easy, peasy to deploy a few km away from your own forces who can be prewarned to protect themselves, a luxury Ukrainians won’t be given
and Russian psy-ops will be hitting western media with how a “kinder gentler nuke” ain’t really no big thing to get all worked up about, cuz they do little damage, much less than what was done to Melitopol, for example, so they are just tryin to end this inhumane war started by fascists, well just like the USA did in 1945…

hmmmm hmmmm….

Of course, Novichok could win out instead of kinder gentler nukes
it’d only take 100 kg of the most lethal version of Novichok to cover the same area as a Nice Nuke
they’d be loaded into a cluster type of munition and fitted to a cruise missile or ballistic missile
but the troops who perform this operation must be skilled at it, or they’re all gonna die, which’d only be a problem for them, and not the high command, so might be worth a try…

in short, it ain’t over til the fat lady sings, and we’ve only seen the first act of this shit show
the second is yet to come

Postscript

Senate has approved a $40 billion package to send emergency aid to Ukraine. The final vote was 86 -11. All Democrats supported the legislation. 11 Republican senators voted against.
House already approved, only Republicans were against there as well
so, it's pretty much a done deal!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 21, 2022, 01:27:09 AM
This BBC news article seems a pretty good update on where the strategic situation is at in Ukraine at the moment:

BBC News - Ukraine war: What might tip the balance?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61524175

Both sides seem to fighting each other pretty much to a standstill. Russia has retreated from Kharkiv, but has made slight gains in Donbas & pretty much just taken Mariupol. Mariupol is pretty much destroyed so won't be of much use to Russia in the short term at least. Meanwhile Russian troop losses are again reaching the point where they won't be strong enough to advance much further.

Ukraine on the other hand is getting heavy weapon howitzers from the west but as the report points out seems to hiding it's troop losses, that has been a issue which it has done all along only briefly once stating them I believe. Now though the report reckons they are higher than they had been before, they are probably right. Ukraine no doubt wants to keep up morale so it won't want that to ebb away with news if troop losses.

As a result potentially both sides may now be reaching a position of stalemate.

In the meantime, both Finland & Sweden have joined Nato and also signed mutual assistance agreements with the UK. Moldova has been highlighted as a vulnerable nation by the UK's Liz Truss and I think she is right and odds are will receive assistance and possible Nato membership as well, it's a small country so it would mostly be a case of protecting a small amount of extra territory so not a big deal but handy to stop further Russian land grabs in the future.

I think this Russia-Ukraine war has really changed Britain's position in Europe. Overnight we've gone from an ex-EU State setting out our own way forward post Brexit to a Superpower in Europe, a key player that East European nations are eager to get onside eclipsing even the EU in stature.Things haven't been that way since 1945 and the loss of Empire but it looks like after all these years we are back and currently the most powerful country within Europe.

So stalemate seems to be the way the Russia-Ukraine war is going. Unless one side can break this stalemate then who knows how long this war may drag on for. We're almost back to a war confined to the Donbas region. The economy of both countries may be pivotal, both as the report points out are declining but Ukraine is suffering badly on this front, when winter comes it may hit Ukrainians hard. Whether Ukrainians will stay in Ukraine or try to go to Europe to escape the effects of a worsening economic situation who knows but it's increasingly looking likely the situation in Ukraine may drag on for quite some time with the jury still out on who the winner will be.

What does seem increasingly clear is that Russia seeks to be after grabbing land for itself now and any land gains will likely end up more or less as permanent additions to Russian territory unless they can be win back. Ukrainian territory becoming part of Russia is not something I would want to see.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on May 21, 2022, 10:40:08 PM
Trench, did you offer your spare rooms to any Ukrainian refugees?

I thought you might have been one of those blokes on FB offering a room/bed to UKR women in exchange for getting your leg over?
Plus getting paid £350 a month? Not an inconsequential sun fir you.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2022, 01:03:15 AM
Trench, did you offer your spare rooms to any Ukrainian refugees?

I thought you might have been one of those blokes on FB offering a room/bed to UKR women in exchange for getting your leg over?
Plus getting paid £350 a month? Not an inconsequential sun fir you.

Not yet Gaunty, I was one of the first to sign up just in case but it's up to the signee to follow through as and when. Yes I saw there was a load of feminists already ranting on and tying to discriminate about 'single men' involvement in the scheme. They are thinking with their feminist western mindset of hostility towards men & sex and don't realise FSW view sex as no big thing.

Anyhow nah not been able to offer a Ukrainian girl a room yet, still need to finish off my place which will largely be do t by end of July. The good news with the scheme is that it can be done in addition to the rent a room allowance scheme for lodgers. So that means I can have 2 lodgers that will bring in £866 roughly a month then another £350 a month for the Ukrainian without my house being classed as a HMO (House of Multiple Occupation) and hence facing a lot more regulation and taxes.

I am cautious though as the £350 a month is given as a 'thank you' from the UK government for up to 12 months. Officially the room is rent free and you're not allowed to charge rent for the room under the scheme. So knowing how cunning the UK gov can be I'm wondering if after the 12 months the same might be true, the Ukrainian continues living their rent free and cannot be kicked out but the home owner loses the £350 thank you payment as after one year. I personally can't see them saying that ok it's alright to kick them out as where are they supposed to go? It will create a problem for the government as to where to house them (apart from possibly a few relatively small new comers to the scheme). They may not also get housing benefit or be under any inclination to give it if they do. So I'm not sure many people have seen that and may get stung by that if it goes that way.

Myself I don't need to impose myself on any Ukrainian girl I can go of and find one to my liking abroad somewhere not in the western world where feminists are on a witch hunt holding up the bogey man of the single male as the great evil. To me the £350 would be all that I need be interested in, I can do without having fingers pointed at me by feminists as it's easy enough for me to go abroad and avoid all that.To be honest it would probably be in the Ukrainian girl's interest to get with a single UK guy who owns their own property, it's a good deal for them, up to her though. End of the day any girl could be placed and I don't know if she would be hot or ugly and as you know I don't do ugly girls ;D I'm not even sure if I would get a girl now as a result of feminists creating all this stink over single men offering a room. I would pass a DBS check but it wouldn't surprise me that despite so called 'equality' that we are supposed to have in this country that single men get discriminated against on all this entirely now. I kind of knew shortly after the scheme was launched that the feminists would create an uproar on men trying it on with Ukrainian girls and would be an urge better off taken abroad they always do, know doubt many lesbians who despise straight men getting to women they see as needing 'protection' in their comforting arms.

Anyway, will see how it goes on that one, I may still see depending on whether single men are allowed to be a part of the scheme or been excluded based solely on our gender. The extra money of course would come in handy but it's not something I'm counting on.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on May 22, 2022, 05:22:31 AM
It's quite possible that none of the Azov Battalion surrendered
OMG.

The delusion is strong. I know you don't like Russian military actions but stay in touch with reality.

http://youtu.be/kwu5Gp8AFnk

Apparently ALL of them have now surrendered (in Azovstal).

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!
 :cluebat:

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2022, 06:58:48 AM
Had to chuckle to myself at this little story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mums-life-shattered-after-partner-27030547?int_source=mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this

Don't think it shows a pic of his wife, odds are nothing glamourous. My guess is Ukrainian girl will marry the dude to get a visa for a permanent stay then ditch him and go for an upgrade to a more wealthier guy. A case of Ukrainian girl grasping to get up the pole.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2022, 07:31:29 AM
"You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!"

Then the French will eat cake
and it will taste much better than the vegamite and dingo burgers you eat

look, we here on RWD, all understand
that your ancestors were kicked out of the UK and sent to a penal colony and became sheep herders
and you couldn’t get laid in Ukraine if your freakin life depended on it
however, none of us feel any sympathy towards you
nope, we all find you irritating, like a bad rash, that needs some ointment applied

instead of working towards overcoming your many obvious issues
you instead want to annoy US with them, like your Putin fetish for example
I mean, seriously?  What kind of borderline homoerotic adolescent hero worship is this?
Sounds like the kind that’s derived from complete and total sexual frustration

Confucious said, “man who has sex problem, will have solution in hand”
so perhaps that may give you some insight into solving your conundrum
unless that hasn’t worked for you either
sad...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 22, 2022, 07:45:30 AM
 YouTube has taken down more than 70,000 videos and 9,000 channels related to the war in Ukraine for violating content guidelines, including removal of videos that referred to the invasion as a “liberation mission”.

YouTube did not provide a breakdown of the taken-down content and channels but Mohan said much of it represented Kremlin narratives about the invasion. “I don’t have the specific numbers, but you can imagine a lot of it being the narratives that are coming from Russian government, or Russian actors on behalf of the Russian government,” he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 22, 2022, 08:01:14 AM
Quote from: rwd123

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!

Turkey wants everyone to let them.kill their kurds wihout anyone saying* that's not nice*

They will get over it. There is good reason they joined in 1952 ,and they have remained.
Their continued transparent operation of the straights is crucial to their own security as well.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2022, 10:38:44 AM

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!


So what's your proposed solution?   For Ukrainians to lay down arms and let Russians come in and summarily execute civilians, and rape women and children into submission? If they refuse, they can just be shot, or removed to "filtration camps" for "reconditioning".  To let them ban the Ukrainian language (as has been done in the past by Russia), because botox addict Putin doesn't believe Ukrainians exist?  Heck, why stop there?  Let them reestablish Russian preeminence in the Baltics, the "stans", Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.  Let them redeploy Russian troops all the way to the middle of Berlin.  That will surely result in peace!  Let's hand all the farmlands in Ukraine over to Putin's inner circle.  I am certain that once Russian oligarchs control the most fertile land in the world, they will feed the world, benevolently.  We can build a shrine to Putin, and worship daily.  All news, from Vladivostok to Lisbon, can be provided by Russia Today.  No need for other press sources, when Mother Russia is capable of keeping the masses properly informed. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 22, 2022, 10:44:08 AM
Boe, stop holding back !!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 22, 2022, 11:33:45 AM
OMG.

The delusion is strong. I know you don't like Russian military actions but stay in touch with reality.



Apparently ALL of them have now surrendered (in Azovstal).

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!
 :cluebat:

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!
 
Concerning cereals France is the first producer in the UE. 
Even if Ukraine is exporting 40% fewer cereals than it's used to doing, it's around 4% of the world's production. 
Concerning the french revolution, it could be, but that's not new it started before the Covid with the yellow jackets.
You will be surprised but the main reasons were 1/ the prices of oil 2/ the 80 km/h (the speed was 90 km/h before on most French roads).
 
Of course, nowadays the purchase power problem is more present than 4 years ago.
But the destruction of the middle class is an ongoing process for 40 years and it's not happening in France only.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2022, 12:07:33 PM
Good solution BO,
but do you think Putin’s statue should be larger than “The Motherland Calls” statue in Volgograd, or the same size?  And also don’t forget renaming St. Petersburg as Putinpolskiberg

Pat, sorry about the decline of France’s middle class, it’s all CLEARLY Biden’s fault, too bad you do’t get Fox News in France to hear the pravda, er I mean truth, instead of Le Figaro or whatever

PS
bonus read about Putin's EARLY cocaine smuggling days, before it evolved into its current form which I can't comment on
http://www.rferl.org/a/putin-cocaine-connection/31855099.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2022, 12:34:47 PM
Good solution BO,
but do you think Putin’s statue should be larger than “The Motherland Calls” statue in Volgograd, or the same size?  And also don’t forget renaming St. Petersburg as Putinpolskiberg.


Of course, the statue should be larger.  There would also be smaller versions, so that individuals can have replicas in their mandatory home shrines, with three candles always lit, and frankincense, myrrh, and rose incense burned 24/7.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2022, 01:19:51 PM
hopefully it's not done in Greco-Roman nude style, otherwise they'd have to put fake owls on his willy, so the pigeons don't perch there, geeezzz
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on May 22, 2022, 02:33:08 PM
hopefully it's not done in Greco-Roman nude style, otherwise they'd have to put fake owls on his willy, so the pigeons don't perch there, geeezzz

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 22, 2022, 03:30:16 PM
YouTube has taken down more than 70,000 videos and 9,000 channels related to the war in Ukraine for violating content guidelines, including removal of videos that referred to the invasion as a “liberation mission”.

YouTube did not provide a breakdown of the taken-down content and channels but Mohan said much of it represented Kremlin narratives about the invasion. “I don’t have the specific numbers, but you can imagine a lot of it being the narratives that are coming from Russian government, or Russian actors on behalf of the Russian government,” he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals)


Oh dear..what will rwd123 watch now ? :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 22, 2022, 03:40:19 PM
OMG.

The delusion is strong. I know you don't like Russian military actions but stay in touch with reality.



Apparently ALL of them have now surrendered (in Azovstal).

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!
 :cluebat:

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!


If you read what i said .. i said "quite possible".


You do realize that possible isn't the same as saying they would not ?


Having said that i am surprised the Azov Battalion surrendered..orders or not...because there's a high chance they'll be tortured and executed by the Russians...with the Russian Parliament calling for them to be designated as terrorists.


As i posted before they surrendered if it was me i'd have gone down fighting orders or not..not because i'm particularly heroic,but i'd rather that than let the innocent women and children raping, then executing ,Russian Orcs get their hands on me.


By the way,regarding staying in touch with reality and delusion.... how's your "the war will be over in days" prediction back in February working out for you ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 22, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

So what's your proposed solution?   For Ukrainians to lay down arms and let Russians come in and summarily execute civilians, and rape women and children into submission? If they refuse, they can just be shot, or removed to "filtration camps" for "reconditioning".  To let them ban the Ukrainian language (as has been done in the past by Russia), because botox addict Putin doesn't believe Ukrainians exist?  Heck, why stop there?  Let them reestablish Russian preeminence in the Baltics, the "stans", Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.  Let them redeploy Russian troops all the way to the middle of Berlin.  That will surely result in peace!  Let's hand all the farmlands in Ukraine over to Putin's inner circle.  I am certain that once Russian oligarchs control the most fertile land in the world, they will feed the world, benevolently.  We can build a shrine to Putin, and worship daily.  All news, from Vladivostok to Lisbon, can be provided by Russia Today.  No need for other press sources, when Mother Russia is capable of keeping the masses properly informed.


You shouldn't have posted this Boe...rwd123 will be getting all excited at the thought of what you posted happening.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on May 22, 2022, 04:06:58 PM

So what's your proposed solution?   
Negotiate a settlement. Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people there was a settlement that was ignored (Minsk Agreement), the US/UK 'advised' the Ukrainians in March not to negotiate, and the longer the conflict prevails the less bargaining power Elensky and co. will have.

Your post was an emotional outburst. Emotions won't resolve this conflict.

Putin wasn't lying when he said he didn't want to occupy Ukraine. It's simply being erased. Kherson is already Russia-d. Where next, Odesa? Dnipro? Kharkov? The Poles may pick up an eraser too and what will be left of Ukraine will resemble Moldova - a small, corrupt impoverished backwater in Eastern Europe.

I'm not advocating this - I'm simply the messenger.

As for Putin's mob controlling farmland... do you think the average Ukrainian benefits now? How much of it, and industrial production, is owned or controlled by Ukrainian oligarchs and foreign actors? One set of thieves replaced by another set of thieves.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on May 22, 2022, 04:14:57 PM
Of course, nowadays the purchase power problem is more present than 4 years ago.
But the destruction of the middle class is an ongoing process for 40 years and it's not happening in France only.
I agree, but the process is accelerating. I am more concerned for Europeans than other places. I think they will be hit harder than other parts of the OECD.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2022, 05:48:39 PM
Negotiate a settlement. Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people there was a settlement that was ignored (Minsk Agreement), the US/UK 'advised' the Ukrainians in March not to negotiate, and the longer the conflict prevails the less bargaining power Elensky and co. will have.

The failure of Minsk lies at the feet of first, the DPR and second, Russia.  Not Ukraine.  Not the EU.  Not the US. 

Here is what the US stated:
Quote

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday that the United States and Ukraine are "united" in supporting the Minsk agreements as the way forward to resolve the conflict. But he also hinted that the agreement alone isn't a one-stop solution, highlighting the challenges that the agreement presents.

"Minsk does not spell out some issues of sequencing when it comes to the steps that the parties need to take," Blinken said, adding: "Ukraine's been approaching this in good faith. We have not to date seen Russia do the same."

Duncan Allan, associate fellow of the Russia and Eurasia Program at London's Chatham House think tank, wrote that ultimately the argument about Minsk is this: "Is Ukraine sovereign, as Ukrainians insist, or should its sovereignty be limited, as Russia demands?"

http://www.cnn.com/2022/02/09/europe/minsk-agreement-ukraine-russia-explainer-intl/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2022/02/09/europe/minsk-agreement-ukraine-russia-explainer-intl/index.html)

That is hardly "advising Ukraine not to settle". 

You should try getting your information from sources other than Russia Today.

Quote
Your post was an emotional outburst. Emotions won't resolve this conflict.

Putin wasn't lying when he said he didn't want to occupy Ukraine. It's simply being erased. Kherson is already Russia-d. Where next, Odesa? Dnipro? Kharkov? The Poles may pick up an eraser too and what will be left of Ukraine will resemble Moldova - a small, corrupt impoverished backwater in Eastern Europe.

I'm not advocating this - I'm simply the messenger.

As for Putin's mob controlling farmland... do you think the average Ukrainian benefits now? How much of it, and industrial production, is owned or controlled by Ukrainian oligarchs and foreign actors? One set of thieves replaced by another set of thieves.

Uh, no.  It was sarcasm.

Yes, Putin wasn't lying about occupying Ukraine directly.  Rather, he wished to install a puppet regime.  Which is, de facto, the same thing. 

48% of Ukraine's farmland is farmed by individual Ukrainians.  There are two or three oligarchs who farm large tracts of land, and the rest is leased to foreign corporations.  Ukraine has had moratoriums on land devolution since 2001.  It can't be purchased, banks won’t lend on lands because they can't be seized, and there is no way to purchase land outright.  Foreign entities and a few oligarchs lease large tracts of land.

The restriction on land ownership (meaning it is leased from the state) was ruled illegal by the EU Court on Human Rights.  Land ownership reform was implemented July 1, 2021, and all purchases were tracked, to ensure oligarchs could not purchase lands.  Foreigners are not entitled to purchase lands.  That may change in 2024, subject to a national referendum on the issue. 

I don't see an issue with large scale farm operations.  Foreign ownership of farmland is restricted in most of Canada, but there is no restriction on foreign corporations leasing farmland, and that does occur.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2022, 07:23:24 PM
Karl Marx said over 150 years ago

that the dynamics of private capital accumulation inevitably lead to the concentration of wealth in ever fewer hands

we live in era of ever increasing income income inequality, and this is why socialism is the subject of such negativity in right wing media

but the class war is being perverted into a cultural war, based on race and religion by the upper class to exert political control over the lower classes

agree or disagree?
Discuss amongst yourselves
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on May 22, 2022, 07:31:20 PM
Negotiate a settlement. Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people there was a settlement that was ignored (Minsk Agreement)

But there was already a negotiated settlement.  The Belovezh Accords.  This settlement was ignored by Russia.

There was another negotiated settlement.  The Budapest Memorandum.  This settlement was ignored by Russia.

Russia keeps negotiating settlements with Ukraine, and agrees to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity (as it was at the date of the agreements) and Russia keeps ignoring the agreements they have made.

It is not the US/UK fault that Ukraine doesn't want to negotiate a settlement with Russia.  This is 100% Russia's fault, as they have shown time and time again that they will not honor any agreement they make.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 23, 2022, 05:59:31 AM

Of course, the statue should be larger.  There would also be smaller versions, so that individuals can have replicas in their mandatory home shrines, with three candles always lit, and frankincense, myrrh, and rose incense burned 24/7.

Please don't infringe on my patent for the urinal freshener version.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 23, 2022, 07:06:14 AM
I have a patent for an electrified Putin urinal idol
one transformer lead goes to the idol, and the other to a metal plate on the floor
it has a voltage adjustment dial
I set mine to “stun” and find its effects to be very therapeutic
although it does throw off my aim
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 23, 2022, 03:34:35 PM
Karl Marx said over 150 years ago

that the dynamics of private capital accumulation inevitably lead to the concentration of wealth in ever fewer hands

we live in era of ever increasing income income inequality, and this is why socialism is the subject of such negativity in right wing media

but the class war is being perverted into a cultural war, based on race and religion by the upper class to exert political control over the lower classes

agree or disagree?
Discuss amongst yourselves

I wouldn't disagree that some of that may be true, I think that  the rich often put a lot of their money into efforts to support the continuation of their privileged position. This may take place through the media, government/political parties, etc.

I think though that there is a more basic undercurrent to the issue of wealth also. Basically the dynamic of supply and demand most notably in relation to supply of labour and the demand for it but also for housing and for food. Population is a big issue here as the greater and greater population that has come about on this planet the more resources are split between an ever greater population. So housing tends to get more dense, more compact and less pleasant for most as a result. I think ever growing populations is the biggest problem here. Big supply of labour means that, that labour can be bought very cheaply. That means a lot of people having to work for very low wages and hence attain very low wealth.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 23, 2022, 03:45:50 PM
Russia has now suffered more military losses in three months in Ukraine than the Soviet Union did in nine years in Afghanistan.


Apparently Russia has now deployed ALL it's forces to Ukraine ..there are no reserves left.


All combat-ready units of the Russian Army are taking part in the war in Ukraine.


Even the only special peacekeeping brigade in Russia has already been sent to the war.


Moscow and other large cities of Russia are protected only by the police and Rossgvardia.


Meanwhile nearly 50 Defence leaders from around the World met today and agreed to send more advanced weapons to Ukraine...they see the opportunity to destroy Russia's military i suspect.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 23, 2022, 07:04:13 PM
This is a good article about the Russian economy-

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/paul-krugman-how-the-west-is-strangling-putin-s-economy/ar-AAXBj8P?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7e792cea6ae947bfb90f110008e7708e
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 23, 2022, 08:04:03 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/paul-krugman-how-the-west-is-strangling-putin-s-economy/ar-AAXBj8P?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7e792cea6ae947bfb90f110008e7708e

Could be; but I don't see it (strangling) yet.
A billion dollars a day coming in from oil and gas.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 23, 2022, 10:53:14 PM
Yes, but Krugman’s point is that imports tell much more of the story of an economy. On that front, Russia is already showing tremendous weakness.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on May 24, 2022, 02:29:31 AM
This is the story of an American soldier-

http://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/23/europe/ukraine-us-soldier-irpin-intl-cmd/index.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 24, 2022, 02:44:29 PM
The DPR 107th Infantry Regiment and the DPR 3rd Infantry Battalion of the 105th both released filmed statements today telling Putler to do one and that they won't be fighting in the Luhansk region  for Russia.


Seems they're starting to wise-up  that doing a deal with the Devil ain't in their best interests after all.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 24, 2022, 03:59:29 PM
Ukraine now has the French Ceasar Howitzers..the most powerful Howitzers in the war.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 24, 2022, 05:27:13 PM
Church of Peter and Paul next to the Kremlin has been set on fire.


This is the Orc Orthodox Church run by the FSB and Putler's Mafia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 24, 2022, 05:32:44 PM
The DPR 107th Infantry Regiment and the DPR 3rd Infantry Battalion of the 105th both released filmed statements today telling Putler to do one and that they won't be fighting in the Luhansk region  for Russia.


Seems they're starting to wise-up  that doing a deal with the Devil ain't in their best interests after all.

Not as good as it sounds at first.

They merely said they will continue to fight Ukraine in the Donetsk region rather than helping out in Luhansk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 24, 2022, 05:56:36 PM
The DPR 107th Infantry Regiment and the DPR 3rd Infantry Battalion of the 105th both released filmed statements today telling Putler to do one and that they won't be fighting in the Luhansk region  for Russia.


Seems they're starting to wise-up  that doing a deal with the Devil ain't in their best interests after all.

Good news.

 But seeing how several of the early leaders were killed off by fsb when their days of useful idiots expired, and them.being russia citizens dint fit the grass roots agenda,   and then a local born taking over ,Pavlov, still feared for his life from the fsb and died under suspicious circumstances , they are a bit slow in figuring that out.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 24, 2022, 06:16:23 PM
Not as good as it sounds at first.

They merely said they will continue to fight Ukraine in the Donetsk region rather than helping out in Luhansk.


They don't really have a choice regarding continuing to fight in the Donetsk region.


They are gangster traitors to Ukraine,including fighting for Russia in Mariupol,where they lost approx 60% of their troops,so i suspect they'd get no mercy from Ukrainian troops who probably wouldn't let them surrender anyway.


I wouldn't.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 25, 2022, 02:01:51 AM
Zelensky the other day was banging on about how only diplomacy can solve this one (the war). I don't see it, not while Russia holds the lands it currently does, Ukraine would have to physically retake the territories it has lost so far, the majority of it for Russia to agree to leave/peace. Situation is at present that Ukraine naturally wants back all the territory Russia has so far taken. Russia on the other hand will want to retain the territory it has taken, Crimea, the Donbass including Mariupol and on top of that Kherson. It's what they have been keen on getting all along and the very least of what they want. With all the heavy losses to date on the Russian side they won't want to give up the small gains that they have made. Ukraine of course won't give up either and so both sides are now locked into war with no diplomatic solution. It's essentially the same issue all along as it's been from 2014 when the Donbas areas split, neither side wanting to give in except now Russia is bogged down in a wider conflict. They had of course hoped to break the deadlock by a swift military victory, take more land and have everything their way. This was of course not to be as we have seen.

Ukraine is now getting in much good weaponry from the west, this is only likely to continue and increase. For the west we are seeing that we need to stop Russia in Ukraine or further Domino's will fall in the form of Moldova, Georgia & the Stans. That would make Russia a far greater threat to the west and so it's better to stop Russia now in Ukraine. Just like if we had stopped Hitler sooner WWII would likely have been a much shorter and less bloody affair.

So with the west arming Ukraine I don't see Russia making much more in the way of gains. Their army is just not up to it, they are running out of military components and their economy is faltering. The only way they might gain much ground is by using a lot of WMD's and so far they seem to have kept them off the cards. So if it's conventional war in the main then it's either going to be stalemate and a long continuing war or Ukraine may gain the upper hand and push the Russians back. The latter looks feasible given their successes to date and a somewhat demoralised Russian side. With extra and improved weaponry being sent by the west that could prove to be decisive in that. Both sides seem to want it bad to have the territories being fought over, it really just seems to depend on how bad Russia wants it and how long and far they will go to defend what they have taken and anymore they wish to take.

Of the areas they have taken Mariupol is a smashed city and will likely take a long time to rebuild, the other cities not so bad. Kherson the other big city looks like it is increasing being turned into a Russian city, the Russian Rouble now being used, a pro-Russian administration has been installed, Russian media broadcasts have now taken over and it appears the old Soviet flag is now flying in the square, just like old times!

I know I said I wouldn't mention Kherson girl again as I've moved on but a final update here I think as might as well given the situation. Well Kherson girl is according to her social media still stuck in Kherson, looks like she didn't choose to flee, she has family there and I guess the invasion came fairly swiftly there. She is also apparently married now but no photos or name of who too does she post. So it looks like she is now likely stuck behind a new iron curtain enjoying life Russian style like it was back in old Soviet times with food shortages and all. Must seem like a world away compared to the luxury she enjoyed with yours truly in Cyprus I can only imagine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 25, 2022, 09:05:45 AM
Seems that the Orcs are running out of Tanks..which is no surprise with the amount they've lost in Ukraine....destroyed,captured and abandoned.


There is film of replacement Tanks being sent to the front yesterday...and they're all Soviet era T-62's...which have absolutely no chance against the Ukrainian T-72's and T-80'S...even Grenades can take them out.


The Belarusian PM has confirmed they're now supplying weapons to Russia.


The Belarus dissidents fighting for Ukraine will love to hear that..makes it easier to oust Lukashenko when his military has run  low on weapons too.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2022, 02:12:02 AM
Seems that the Orcs are running out of Tanks..which is no surprise with the amount they've lost in Ukraine....destroyed,captured and abandoned.


There is film of replacement Tanks being sent to the front yesterday...and they're all Soviet era T-62's...which have absolutely no chance against the Ukrainian T-72's and T-80'S...even Grenades can take them out.


The Belarusian PM has confirmed they're now supplying weapons to Russia.


The Belarus dissidents fighting for Ukraine will love to hear that..makes it easier to oust Lukashenko when his military has run  low on weapons too.

I read the Forbes report, I wasn't aware that even the T-72's that the Russians have been using as their main battle tank was so old, dates back to 1969. So the T-62's are only a bit older however as the report says many of the 10,000 or so T-62's are lying rusted and unuseable in giant tank graveyards. Looks like the mighty statistics Russia uses as the size of its army lacks real life credibility. The T-62's are apparently easier to use, the few that still work and don't use advanced electronic components. My guess is that Russia is just throwing all they got into this last ditch offensive before it digs in and into a stalemate situation, as the article says. Quite what then who knows it's kind of like back to the old conflict zone situation where it rabbles on but no sign of either side winning out. Whether the west has armed Ukraine with enough modern weaponry to dislodge Russia and push them out who knows.

Russia's lost nearly 400 T-72 main battle tanks and many of its other T-72's are in need of repair for which it lacks the components to do so. I'm surprised Russia isn't in a better position with a more updated tank and lots of manufacturing of its own components for it. It seems kind of laughable and foolish to attack another country when their own military situation is so precarious. Russia's military and economic strength seems a lot weaker than I had thought.

Looks to me that Russia made big strategic blunders at the start which were foolish to make with them having such a precarious military strength. If they had attacked before they got the NLAWS from the UK and later the Javelins from the west then it would likely been a Ukrainian defeat, just a matter of 2-3 weeks or so of procrastination by Russia separating that. I also think that it's failure to try and cut of Ukraine's land border to at least make it awkward or difficult for Ukraine to get in supplies was a big military blunder. Russia had 3 battalions on the edge of Moldova it still hasn't used to date and I fully expected them to use them as well as strike down south from Belarus towards and past Lviv to accomplish that. It's fortunate that their whole military operation has been a disaster for both Ukraine and us in the west. The shame is all the Ukrainians that have had to suffer so badly as a result with lives lost and ruined.

At the moment Russia seems to be pressing Ukraine hard in Donbass. This looks like the last throw of the dice before Russia exhaust it's attacking capability, never thought I would see that happen so fast. Recent report on the situation:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/26/ukraine-pleads-for-more-weapons-to-tackle-russian-onslaught-in-donbas

Looks like Russia is allowing old boys to enlist to just have any cannon fodder to throw at the enemy. In Kherson they are using their old trick now of issuing Russian passports. Word had been that they are looking to press the men their into the Russian army to use as cannon fodder and if not already happening probably only a matter of time with the move to Russian passports. So really just a few more days to weeks before Russia runs out of offensive capability and digs in I guess.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 26, 2022, 04:54:07 PM
Seems that the Orcs are running out of Tanks..which is no surprise with the amount they've lost in Ukraine....destroyed,captured and abandoned.


There is film of replacement Tanks being sent to the front yesterday...and they're all Soviet era T-62's...which have absolutely no chance against the Ukrainian T-72's and T-80'S...even Grenades can take them out.


The Belarusian PM has confirmed they're now supplying weapons to Russia.


The Belarus dissidents fighting for Ukraine will love to hear that..makes it easier to oust Lukashenko when his military has run  low on weapons too.

Imagine taking a tank into battle that is older than your parents. :trainwreck:

http://youtu.be/oubk1vLWJjI
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 26, 2022, 05:17:34 PM
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/26/ukraine-says-russia-canceling-school-holiday-in-mariupol-a77819


Younger students will be picking up bricks. The girls will be studying the finer points of mortar mixing in home economics and the boys will be learning brick laying. Schools will be rebuilt in record time. All will learn Russian math. (all profits go in kleptocrats' pockets)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 26, 2022, 05:55:40 PM
in Soviet Russia, you don't cross the border...
the border crosses you!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on May 26, 2022, 06:46:33 PM
http://youtu.be/3Y52c1b167I
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on May 27, 2022, 01:42:54 AM
I read the Forbes report, I wasn't aware that even the T-72's that the Russians have been using as their main battle tank was so old, dates back to 1969. So the T-62's are only a bit older however as the report says many of the 10,000 or so T-62's are lying rusted and unuseable in giant tank graveyards. Looks like the mighty statistics Russia uses as the size of its army lacks real life credibility. The T-62's are apparently easier to use, the few that still work and don't use advanced electronic components. My guess is that Russia is just throwing all they got into this last ditch offensive before it digs in and into a stalemate situation, as the article says. Quite what then who knows it's kind of like back to the old conflict zone situation where it rabbles on but no sign of either side winning out. Whether the west has armed Ukraine with enough modern weaponry to dislodge Russia and push them out who knows.

Russia's lost nearly 400 T-72 main battle tanks and many of its other T-72's are in need of repair for which it lacks the components to do so. I'm surprised Russia isn't in a better position with a more updated tank and lots of manufacturing of its own components for it. It seems kind of laughable and foolish to attack another country when their own military situation is so precarious. Russia's military and economic strength seems a lot weaker than I had thought.

Looks to me that Russia made big strategic blunders at the start which were foolish to make with them having such a precarious military strength. If they had attacked before they got the NLAWS from the UK and later the Javelins from the west then it would likely been a Ukrainian defeat, just a matter of 2-3 weeks or so of procrastination by Russia separating that. I also think that it's failure to try and cut of Ukraine's land border to at least make it awkward or difficult for Ukraine to get in supplies was a big military blunder. Russia had 3 battalions on the edge of Moldova it still hasn't used to date and I fully expected them to use them as well as strike down south from Belarus towards and past Lviv to accomplish that. It's fortunate that their whole military operation has been a disaster for both Ukraine and us in the west. The shame is all the Ukrainians that have had to suffer so badly as a result with lives lost and ruined.

At the moment Russia seems to be pressing Ukraine hard in Donbass. This looks like the last throw of the dice before Russia exhaust it's attacking capability, never thought I would see that happen so fast. Recent report on the situation:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/26/ukraine-pleads-for-more-weapons-to-tackle-russian-onslaught-in-donbas

Looks like Russia is allowing old boys to enlist to just have any cannon fodder to throw at the enemy. In Kherson they are using their old trick now of issuing Russian passports. Word had been that they are looking to press the men their into the Russian army to use as cannon fodder and if not already happening probably only a matter of time with the move to Russian passports. So really just a few more days to weeks before Russia runs out of offensive capability and digs in I guess.
Trench expounding his views out of his bung hole as usual.
A push southwest from Belarus is next to impossible for the Russkies. Their supply lines would never survive given the sheer distance and terrain.

BTW, whatever came of your predictions of the Russkies overrunning Ukraine in no time?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 27, 2022, 12:29:43 PM
How interconnected and fragile the world has become
as “black swan” events have become so frequent that it numbs our minds from the constant bombardment
all this bad karma from the global forces that provide the weight that’s pushing things out of order
Russia, China, Middle East, Global Pandemics, Climate Change, Inflation, Income and Racial inequality

I think the world is about to enter a painful period, my friends
and I do mean my friends…

poot-ANUS, El Presidente of Russian Desperation, er Federation
has thus spoke
“cancel our sanctions, to get your grain” to hundreds of millions of people…

understand...

the world cannot remain a bystander, not only to the slaughter of total innocents in Ukraine
but the 400 million people who are gonna be without grain this winter!!

ya feel me?

WE gotta get our navies together, and open a free shipping zone in the Black Sea, all the way to freaking Odesa

and if the Russians. They don’t like it, then they can kiss moy bella jhoppa!
‘horrosho, Mfers!!!!

and YES, I got skin in this game NOW, but I’m not allowed to discus this on-line AT ALL!!!!
but it's pretty freakin' MAJOR!

PS
added benefit, of NATO navies elinating Russia's blockade of Odesa
is it can be a new shipping point for weapons, much shorter to front lines than from Western Ukraine
and NATO will guarantee delivery to Ukraine
and protect grain carrying ships when they leave Odesa
it's WIN! WIN!

PSII
if the US Navy participates in busting the Russian blockade of Odesa, and establishes Naval superiority in the Black Sea
then it can station frigates just offshore, that are armed with the SM-6 anti-missile missile
which can bring down Iskanders, or anything else Russians have
and make southern Ukraine, a missile free zone
and the Russian supply will grow less and less
and they'll eventually cut WAY back on use of these expensive weapons to sow terror in civilians

not that I'm trying to hand out strategic military concepts, or anything like that, I'm just thinkin' out loud!

http://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/what-we-do/missile-defense/interceptors/sm-6-missile

PSIII
Israeli egineers designed the software that went into this missile, it's a partial derivitive of Iron Dome
US ships are equipped with special interface to Israeli super radar that the commander has to engage on the bridge
this radar plans out the missile's trajectory and estimated target
if the distance, speed parameters are within spec
then a computer automatically decides to fire and provides guidance control
this computer system is so accurate, that it can plot a precise interception course, accurate to a few feet
that works, even if the missile changes it's speed, altitude and direction and range
once the computer steers the missile to calculated location the proximity fuse goes off if the missile is a few meters awayl
cool!
paka Iskander!!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 27, 2022, 12:36:54 PM
Trench expounding his views out of his bung hole as usual.
A push southwest from Belarus is next to impossible for the Russkies. Their supply lines would never survive given the sheer distance and terrain.

BTW, whatever came of your predictions of the Russkies overrunning Ukraine in no time?

They would have done had we not given them anti-tank weapons. Unfortunately Putin's tanks would have run all over them and blasted them to bits, Ukrainians had no answer to Russian tanks until we supplied it to them. Compare this time Russia invaded to last time when they invaded and had no trouble invading into the centre of Mariupol.

With going south-west from Belarus towards Lviv they would also need to use their 3 battalions in the east of Moldova to come out from there and take over the surrounding border area around that region. There may or may not have been a complete link up but controling a lot of the border area and making it awkward for supplies to get through would have likely have been decisive in Russia's favour and potentially a war winning manoeuvre. That they didn't bother even trying with that is another strategic blunder by Russia. They put too many tanks on the road to Kyiv instead and got bunged up in the worst tank traffic jam ever. I'm not complaining I wanted Ukraine to win but at the outset Russia held a big advantage but foolishly threw it away one bad move after another.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on May 27, 2022, 08:09:11 PM
 (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz051822dAPR20220518064503.jpg) (http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz051822dAPR20220518064503.jpg)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 28, 2022, 02:41:29 AM
How interconnected and fragile the world has become
as “black swan” events have become so frequent that it numbs our minds from the constant bombardment
all this bad karma from the global forces that provide the weight that’s pushing things out of order
Russia, China, Middle East, Global Pandemics, Climate Change, Inflation, Income and Racial inequality

I think the world is about to enter a painful period, my friends
and I do mean my friends…

poot-ANUS, El Presidente of Russian Desperation, er Federation
has thus spoke
“cancel our sanctions, to get your grain” to hundreds of millions of people…

understand...

the world cannot remain a bystander, not only to the slaughter of total innocents in Ukraine
but the 400 million people who are gonna be without grain this winter!!

ya feel me?

WE gotta get our navies together, and open a free shipping zone in the Black Sea, all the way to freaking Odesa

and if the Russians. They don’t like it, then they can kiss moy bella jhoppa!
‘horrosho, Mfers!!!!

and YES, I got skin in this game NOW, but I’m not allowed to discus this on-line AT ALL!!!!
but it's pretty freakin' MAJOR!

PS
added benefit, of NATO navies elinating Russia's blockade of Odesa
is it can be a new shipping point for weapons, much shorter to front lines than from Western Ukraine
and NATO will guarantee delivery to Ukraine
and protect grain carrying ships when they leave Odesa
it's WIN! WIN!

PSII
if the US Navy participates in busting the Russian blockade of Odesa, and establishes Naval superiority in the Black Sea
then it can station frigates just offshore, that are armed with the SM-6 anti-missile missile
which can bring down Iskanders, or anything else Russians have
and make southern Ukraine, a missile free zone
and the Russian supply will grow less and less
and they'll eventually cut WAY back on use of these expensive weapons to sow terror in civilians

not that I'm trying to hand out strategic military concepts, or anything like that, I'm just thinkin' out loud!

http://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/what-we-do/missile-defense/interceptors/sm-6-missile (http://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/what-we-do/missile-defense/interceptors/sm-6-missile)

PSIII
Israeli egineers designed the software that went into this missile, it's a partial derivitive of Iron Dome
US ships are equipped with special interface to Israeli super radar that the commander has to engage on the bridge
this radar plans out the missile's trajectory and estimated target
if the distance, speed parameters are within spec
then a computer automatically decides to fire and provides guidance control
this computer system is so accurate, that it can plot a precise interception course, accurate to a few feet
that works, even if the missile changes it's speed, altitude and direction and range
once the computer steers the missile to calculated location the proximity fuse goes off if the missile is a few meters awayl
cool!
paka Iskander!!


It's a difficult situation for you Krim i can imagine.


You've been close to Russia ...and still are through your family..


I haven't got particular skin in this game....but eventually the whole World will have.


Maybe all those countries who refused to condemn Russia over the invasion because of their self-interests,and continuer doing business with them, might have to think again when their food starts running out and their economies start collapsing.


The UK had better NOT start sending foreign aid to those self-serving countries either...yeah India i'm looking at you.


We can't sit by and watch the Genocide that's happening..with reports now coming out that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have been deported to Orc Filtration camps.


I'm hearing abhorrent things that are happening to Ukrainian civilians.particularly women and children, in Kherson...unverified at this stage so i won't go into horrific details.


We already know for certain about the raping and killing of women and children in Ukraine..the executions of civilians..and the bombing and shelling of their homes..


It's clear that Putler and his inhuman Orcs are hell-bent on wiping Ukraine and it's people off the map...and having their own perverted fun whilst doing it.


Boris Johnson is now pushing for MRLS to be sent to Ukraine,and the USA is discussing it..don't take too long.just do it.


Russia ain't happy about the thought of that,because it puts their homeland under threat, and they're making their usual threats via Lavrov and Russian state TV.


It's up to NATO to say tough sh*t Russia,you should have thought about that before you invaded Ukraine and committed Genocide.


It's about time we started threatening Russia with actions, instead of having to just listen to their rhetoric all the time.


Wiping their Orcs off the face of the Earth would be a good place to start,and don't let ANY of them escape back to Russia ...so get those MRLS to the Ukrainian military.


Ukraine has never asked anyone to put boots on the ground in Ukraine..let's give them everything they need and NOW.


Because if we don't start doing it now ,it's going to be a lot harder down the road when our economies are on their knees.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 28, 2022, 09:10:03 AM
The Slav(e) mentality

NO! it’s not like THAT!


when I was younger, I wasn’t smart enough, to realize I shoulda dated oligarch’s daughters, and I could try to use cunnilingus as a tool, to work my way up the ladder as high as possible!
YOU have to “go down” to “go up” in Russia my friends

My wife’s relatives are at the bottom of the economic ladder,
so my wife’s relatives being poor and uneducated, support Putin
and I’ve ALWAYS had a low level war with them
wouldn’t find it to be awful, if a few of their spawn were sent to the Eastern Front (thoughts and prayers)

anyway, I digress. Instead of marryin’ an oligarch’s pretty young thing daughter, (and immediately becoming his foreign courier) I just “chased women” in Russia and Ukraine
and I did that until one CAUGHT ME!!!

hmmmm hmmmmm

no, I don’t count THEM as “skin in the game”

unfortunately, I am prohibited from providing even one single detail about what skin I have in this game now

and no, this has nothing to do with building an IED factory and training center in Ukraine


nichy vo moy droog
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 29, 2022, 12:53:22 AM
Well,despite the prophets of doom saying the Ukrainian Air Force wouldn't last five minutes against the "mighty " Russian Air Force,including at least one poster on here....they're doing rather well  ;D


In the Kherson region on Friday May 27th  Ukrainian SU25's were attacking Orc troops.
As a result of the air raid a company-tactical group of Orcs with equipment and manpower was destroyed.


A  rather peeved Orc Military then sent up a full bells and whistles SU-35 from Crimea to sort these impertinent Ukrainian Pilots out and show them who's boss.


A Ukrainian MIG-29 was covering the SU-25's and engaged with the Orc SU-35 and clearly being a superior Pilot shot it down at 14:10 Kyiv time  >:D


Much gnashing of teeth among the Orc top brass no doubt  ;D


In other news Ukrainian troops are now launching an offensive in the Kherson region.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 29, 2022, 01:43:09 AM
The Slav(e) mentality

NO! it’s not like THAT!


when I was younger, I wasn’t smart enough, to realize I shoulda dated oligarch’s daughters, and I could try to use cunnilingus as a tool, to work my way up the ladder as high as possible!
YOU have to “go down” to “go up” in Russia my friends

My wife’s relatives are at the bottom of the economic ladder,
so my wife’s relatives being poor and uneducated, support Putin
and I’ve ALWAYS had a low level war with them

wouldn’t find it to be awful, if a few of their spawn were sent to the Eastern Front (thoughts and prayers)

anyway, I digress. Instead of marryin’ an oligarch’s pretty young thing daughter, (and immediately becoming his foreign courier) I just “chased women” in Russia and Ukraine
and I did that until one CAUGHT ME!!!

hmmmm hmmmmm

no, I don’t count THEM as “skin in the game”

unfortunately, I am prohibited from providing even one single detail about what skin I have in this game now

and no, this has nothing to do with building an IED factory and training center in Ukraine


nichy vo moy droog

I'm going to have a stab at guessing what you are saying Krim, that those at the top in Russia see those just underneath them as a likely threat or competition. So it's safer for them to raise up some poor uneducated lot into a position of power that needs filling as they are likely more easily controlled and feel indebted to those that have raised them up out of their poor situation and into a good one. Possibly also that they are going to feel happy to hold onto what they have got rather than risk it by going after more and potentially losing it all. Not saying it always works out just so in practice but probably a better play for those at the top, am I right?

Meanwhile of course the Oligarchs who are presently knocking around find it harder to progress further up the ladder depending on how big an Oligarch they are. As you note worth dating their daughters as many are likely to hold onto what they have a fair old time so in theory a possible good marriage for both. That said no doubt the guy would have to get in with being useful as the foreign courier as you put it in whatever their operations are - an interesting prospect though myself I think I would likely prefer to avoid all of that and stay independent, I think I would prefer being master of my own game than a component of a mob like grouping just too much potential for trouble that could ruin my own world would be the way I would see it I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 29, 2022, 09:40:49 AM
NOT HAIKU!

apparachik magic
makes the world tragic

nihlists
denialists
in the audience
 
seal its fate
all the rewards
are just bait

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Odesa
Post by: krimster2 on May 29, 2022, 06:51:17 PM
Odesa looked nice, but a little on the cool side, which is unusual for this time of year
less than a month from now, it should rain a lot

the stores, shops seemed empty, with only a few customers
no ships/boats visible on shore or out to sea

a lot of people milling around on Arcadia, no one was armed, no sign of the war
unlike Moscow, you can easily get FOREX here!!  and CCs work to!!!
not bad! looks nice!! it just needs to be a little warmer!

my oldest daughter's husband, is going to be issued his K1 VISA in Warsaw Poland, next month
we're all flying to meet each other there, and return to where my daughter and husband will be living in Arlington, VA

now just one more daughter and husband to go, timeline from application was 8 months
which hopefully means in a couple of more months yougest daughter's husband will receive HIS K1 visa
they're moving to Oregon!!




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Odesa
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 30, 2022, 01:34:53 AM
Odesa looked nice, but a little on the cool side, which is unusual for this time of year
less than a month from now, it should rain a lot

the stores, shops seemed empty, with only a few customers
no ships/boats visible on shore or out to sea

a lot of people milling around on Arcadia, no one was armed, no sign of the war
unlike Moscow, you can easily get FOREX here!!  and CCs work to!!!
not bad! looks nice!! it just needs to be a little warmer!

my oldest daughter's husband, is going to be issued his K1 VISA in Warsaw Poland, next month
we're all flying to meet each other there, and return to where my daughter and husband will be living in Arlington, VA

now just one more daughter and husband to go, timeline from application was 8 months
which hopefully means in a couple of more months yougest daughter's husband will receive HIS K1 visa
they're moving to Oregon!!

How come the different States? Won't that make it less convenient to see each other? Was it their personal preference?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 30, 2022, 12:53:59 PM
a family agreement that my oldest daughter is gonna live in my parents house, given to me when my parents passed away a few years ago...
youngest and her spouse are gonna live in Oregon, they each will be going to different schools and have very different professional lives
that's the underlying reason for the divergent geography

my wife is gonna spend time in Israel, at the Dead Sea, with a relative of mine
I'll probably stay in Tel Aviv cuz I don't like getting all covered in mud the way that they do and they'll try and "slime me" which I REALLY don't like!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 30, 2022, 08:08:52 PM
Some smiling during shelling.

http://youtube.com/shorts/D95hAgA-LR8?feature=share

http://youtube.com/shorts/dF_yhW5MkGk?feature=share

http://youtube.com/shorts/oxMhDXHOsAk?feature=share

http://youtube.com/shorts/qUtq5Qt5N6I?feature=share
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 31, 2022, 12:25:40 AM
a family agreement that my oldest daughter is gonna live in my parents house, given to me when my parents passed away a few years ago...
youngest and her spouse are gonna live in Oregon, they each will be going to different schools and have very different professional lives
that's the underlying reason for the divergent geography

my wife is gonna spend time in Israel, at the Dead Sea, with a relative of mine
I'll probably stay in Tel Aviv cuz I don't like getting all covered in mud the way that they do and they'll try and "slime me" which I REALLY don't like!!

So is the Russian Oligarch connection working out? Or time over again would you have preferred your daughters to marry someone local so they are nearby?

I know you said the Oligarch family is at your place in South America as all did not go to plan, is it likely that will change over time or not quite got what was hoped for?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 31, 2022, 03:35:59 AM
These Ukrainians have nerves of steel for sure...you have to admire them.


I saw one of their soldiers talking in Kharkiv on one of the news channels.


He was saying the Russians are terrified of them..and he gave a sinister laugh as he said it. ;D


At the start of the war a news channel was talking to one soldier who had gone into hospital the day of the invasion for an operation on his shoulder.He had his operation and discharged himself the next day.
The reporter said "Why " ?
He replied "I wanted to get out there and do the best job in the World....trashing Ruskies ".


On another interview a refugee in Poland said her mother and her father arrived with her at Lviv,and then her father..a former Afghan Veteran...said "Ok you're both safe now i'm going back to fight "
She replied "But dad you're 61 and you can hardly walk.How can you possibly fight " ?
His response was "Then i'll crawl ".


Even the OAP's stand up to orc Tanks and troops and tell them to get lost.,


I suspect this is why so many western men fail to find a Ukrainian wife..the women probably don't think we're man/tough enough for them.


Russian's character is not coming out of this at all well.A former POW was saying on BBC today that he couldn't move because of his injuries after he'd been shelled and the Russian Nurses when bringing food to him in hospital would leave it out of reach and say "Try and eat that Ukrainian lowlife ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 31, 2022, 08:43:42 AM
Yes, sometimes a woman wants a cute poodle to pet and sit on her lap
and sometimes a woman wants a lean and mean Doberman…

and if you can be both AND
make “a lotta” money AND
fix or make stuff
well, sheeeeeeeettttt, you got it made in the FSU with wimmin
they will be all over you, like a buncha ants crawlin over a bag of sticky wet candy
hmmmmm hmmmmm….

And if you ain’t this kinda guy
well, the outcome will be just like if you were staying home anyway

so my advice to you guys specifically, stick with the ugly local girls in your village*
cuz, when ya get down to it, ya really don’t have any other choice

hope this helps, and doesn’t sound too critical

*honestly, the best way to have sex with someone you're not attracted to
is to just turn off the lights and pretend they're someone else
you can fool your brain into thinking you're having sex with Raquel Welch circa 1968
works for me!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on May 31, 2022, 10:41:48 AM
Meh, doesn't take much money.
Enough to be a normal family in the west with some disposable income for family trips etc, a decent sense of humor,good character and a devilish smile helps.
I'm exibit B to prove this easily.
My wife is gorgeous,amazing person.she has the patience of a saint to put up with me,but I don't ask why.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 31, 2022, 10:55:25 AM
I’m gonna take a “wild guess” that the reason your wife puts up with you, is that you have abnormally large male genitalia, like me!!

this is the only reason my wife pays any attention to me AT ALL!!!

however, if I am wrong about you, then I’m sorry…

maybe she’s a spy or something!!!!



PS, please accept this humble wisdom from Jane Austin


"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.”
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Stirlitz on June 02, 2022, 04:08:24 PM
They would have done had we not given them anti-tank weapons. Unfortunately Putin's tanks would have run all over them and blasted them to bits, Ukrainians had no answer to Russian tanks until we supplied it to them. Compare this time Russia invaded to last time when they invaded and had no trouble invading into the centre of Mariupol.
Not at all. We have our own Stugna which was developed in 2011 and is quite good at destroying Russian armor. What’s more, Putin’s obsolete Soviet armor is also quite vulnerable to {once again Soviet} RPG-7.


It is offensive weaponry we still lack to oust the Nazis from Ukraine fast. When we get enough of it, Russia will be driven out of Ukraine within a few months. It is only the logistics and scumbags like Scholz that delay supplies, but Russia is doomed from the very beginning — it is just a matter of time and lives (sadly).


When Russia invaded initially in 2014, it is an irrelevant comparison as the Ukrainian army virtually did not exist then, and the majority of the people still viewed Russia as a brother nation and the war seemed to be some stupid misunderstanding. It is sad that even after 8 years a lot of Ukrainians failed to realize that it is a Nazi state dead set upon the 'final settlement of the Ukrainian issue' and it was only the Russian shells and cruise missiles that finally helped to turn the tide and convince a lot of my stupid compatriots of the obvious.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 03, 2022, 04:38:17 AM
Not at all. We have our own Stugna which was developed in 2011 and is quite good at destroying Russian armor. What’s more, Putin’s obsolete Soviet armor is also quite vulnerable to {once again Soviet} RPG-7.


It is offensive weaponry we still lack to oust the Nazis from Ukraine fast. When we get enough of it, Russia will be driven out of Ukraine within a few months. It is only the logistics and scumbags like Scholz that delay supplies, but Russia is doomed from the very beginning — it is just a matter of time and lives (sadly).


When Russia invaded initially in 2014, it is an irrelevant comparison as the Ukrainian army virtually did not exist then, and the majority of the people still viewed Russia as a brother nation and the war seemed to be some stupid misunderstanding. It is sad that even after 8 years a lot of Ukrainians failed to realize that it is a Nazi state dead set upon the 'final settlement of the Ukrainian issue' and it was only the Russian shells and cruise missiles that finally helped to turn the tide and convince a lot of my stupid compatriots of the obvious.


It's good to see that you're ok. :)


The huge problem you have in Ukraine is that it's so heavily Russian influenced.


It's held your country back.


You have a high percentage of Russians/ethnic Russians living there.


That's not to say they're all pro-Putler..because they're clearly not.
However,enough of them are that's it's badly hindering your war effort against the orcs.
The SBU are arresting one or two Russian spies everyday..and that's just the tip of the iceberg i suspect.
These spies/traitors give away your military positions and where your military hardware, arms and ammunition are stored for the price of a bottle of Vodka...constantly undermining your military,and then you have the gangster separatists to contend with in Luhansk and Donetsk.


Hopefully Ukraine will win the war and you can start deporting the pro-Russians living among you to.....Russia.


I hope that the idiotic Ukrainians who believed Russians were their brothers and sisters now realize how gullible they were.
There is a youtube channel called "Inside Russia ".He's a decent Russian/human being living in Moscow and he confirms that 75% of Russians support this war against Ukraine...much to his disgust.


There's a good reason why the vast majority of the Brits have NEVER trusted Russians...and now your people understand why.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 03, 2022, 08:41:43 PM
Not at all. We have our own Stugna which was developed in 2011 and is quite good at destroying Russian armor. What’s more, Putin’s obsolete Soviet armor is also quite vulnerable to {once again Soviet} RPG-7.


It is offensive weaponry we still lack to oust the Nazis from Ukraine fast. When we get enough of it, Russia will be driven out of Ukraine within a few months. It is only the logistics and scumbags like Scholz that delay supplies, but Russia is doomed from the very beginning — it is just a matter of time and lives (sadly).


When Russia invaded initially in 2014, it is an irrelevant comparison as the Ukrainian army virtually did not exist then, and the majority of the people still viewed Russia as a brother nation and the war seemed to be some stupid misunderstanding. It is sad that even after 8 years a lot of Ukrainians failed to realize that it is a Nazi state dead set upon the 'final settlement of the Ukrainian issue' and it was only the Russian shells and cruise missiles that finally helped to turn the tide and convince a lot of my stupid compatriots of the obvious.

The stugma has been working incredibly.

I hope all is well with you and your family.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 04, 2022, 09:19:19 AM
Russia has a choice:

1. fully mobilize
2. use WMDs
3. surrender, and Putin steps down

and you guys think it's #3?
I don't!!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 04, 2022, 12:40:33 PM
Russia has a choice:

1. fully mobilize
2. use WMDs
3. surrender, and Putin steps down

and you guys think it's #3?
I don't!!

I do  not see #3.

I do think there is 4, 5,and 6


4. Withdraw while claiming de nazification complete by holdimg trials amd executing azov members in dpr territory which also  gives them cuplable
deniability.
Also state that ukraine has  bern suffoencently de militarized by the sie ial.operations taking out most of ukraunes airforce, most of its armoured vehicles, hot mpst of its military bases and key infrastructure,and eliminatimg 50k ukrainian troops.

None if it of course has to be accurate, up the propaganda ,limit pitzude media further and call .it a day
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 04, 2022, 01:38:51 PM
In the battle for severodonetsk, the armed forces of Ukraine retook the city today.

The Dpr forces (117th?) deployed near kherson issued an official statement yesterday they will not fight for russia in kherson oblast ,and plan to return to Donetsk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 04, 2022, 03:24:10 PM
Not at all. We have our own Stugna which was developed in 2011 and is quite good at destroying Russian armor. What’s more, Putin’s obsolete Soviet armor is also quite vulnerable to {once again Soviet} RPG-7.


It is offensive weaponry we still lack to oust the Nazis from Ukraine fast. When we get enough of it, Russia will be driven out of Ukraine within a few months. It is only the logistics and scumbags like Scholz that delay supplies, but Russia is doomed from the very beginning — it is just a matter of time and lives (sadly).


When Russia invaded initially in 2014, it is an irrelevant comparison as the Ukrainian army virtually did not exist then, and the majority of the people still viewed Russia as a brother nation and the war seemed to be some stupid misunderstanding. It is sad that even after 8 years a lot of Ukrainians failed to realize that it is a Nazi state dead set upon the 'final settlement of the Ukrainian issue' and it was only the Russian shells and cruise missiles that finally helped to turn the tide and convince a lot of my stupid compatriots of the obvious.

Don't worry Stirlitz the Foreign Legion consisting mainly of our Rambo's from the west has is already starting to turn the tide in Sievierodonetsk since they arrived there a day or so ago and will likely deliver that city back to you soon ;)

http://ukranews.com/en/news/861012-foreign-legion-enter-sievierodonetsk-to-help-afu-haidai

Already the Russian Army is suffering a reversal of its position there and suffering heavy losses and has once again been put back into retreat.

It's great to see you have produced some of your own stuff to knock out the Russian tanks, I was surprised how obsolete Russian tanks were dating back to the 1960s! The Javelins have the advantage of night vision I believe while the NLAWS are a quick fire and forget solution. With all of the above to call on it looks like the orcs will soon be scrabbling to get out of Ukraine. Present signs seem to be that they are starting to crack quite badly, morale falling apart. The Chechens and others within Russia don't want to go and units are refusing to fight and beginning to turn and leave seems to be the news stories coming in here. Good luck!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 04, 2022, 03:46:17 PM
This issue can’t be resolved by Russians making a “proclamation”
this war can only be decided by blood, and so it will be…

in a war of attrition
you need to withstand losses
as well as generate them…

Russia is primarily sacrificing its minorities
and killing several civilians for every Ukrainian military death
so they get the killing championship trophy in Ukraine
and at the same time, minimizing the punishment, by filling the military ranks with village boys from remote provinces
and these boys ain’t even Russian, they’re from past Russian conquests!!!

this is a very deliberate and calculated event from a domestic perspective
and maybe Russia miscalculated the foreign response
or maybe their plan is so TOTAL
that it NEEDS the West to isolate it
cuz…

PutinOnTheFritz
is making a new IRON CURTAIN that he’s gonna drop over Russia
and maybe Russia was the main target all along!!

meanwhile he has 20% of Ukraine’s territory!!!

BUT…
this is the CURRENT STATE of the war, look how much has changed in the past year
election year in Russia is 2024….
this will put PutinOnTheFritz under pressure to make major progress on this issue by then
and the current stalement, ain’t gonna cut it
meanwhile Ukraine is mobilizing and the USA has committed to provide Ukraine with EVERYTHING it need
I GUARANTEE you there will be Americans operating Reaper Drones in Ukraine, while communicating with a satellite link to New Mexico, while saying ONLY Ukrainians operate the drones!
Americans will test fire HellFire missiles against Russian tanks when they appear!!
just for the TRAINING it provides!

this reminds me of the time the USA flew high altitude high speed drones just over the North Vietnamese border into China!
hardly anybody knows about it cuz it happened a long time ago!

each side will soon start secret  "microaggressions"
that are small manageable escalations of the war
and that goes on for awhile...

UNTIL....

KABOOM!!!!

creme of mushroom cloud soup

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 04, 2022, 04:30:35 PM
Ukrainian troops have now started an offensive toward Izyum.


An orc BTG has just been destroyed in the Kherson region.


The orc 35th Army has been obliterated.

The "butchers of Bucha " the 64th Motorized Brigade, whom Putler honoured for their heroic work in raping and killing women and executing other civilians in Bucha, is now on it's knees with only around 12-15 of them still surviving and they're holed up in the Izyum region.

The master strategist rwd123 has gone a bit quiet lately. ;D



There are loads of British ex-servicemen now fighting for Ukraine.


Former Commando Ben Grant ,son of Tory MP Helen Grant, has just upset the Russians after he led a unit that killed a Chechen Commander in the Kharkiv region.


I know someone in Lviv,who's helping with the humanitarian aid there, and he says foreign fighters are flooding into Ukraine and the Ukrainian troops consider the Brit fighters as total nut jobs  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2022, 02:35:50 AM
This was an interesting read, though it has not proven accurate -

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/4/2102279/-A-Ukrainian-military-expert-confirms-much-of-the-analysis-you-ve-read-here-and-looks-to-the-future
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 05, 2022, 11:06:57 AM
Don't worry Stirlitz the Foreign Legion consisting mainly of our Rambo's from the west has is already starting to turn the tide in Sievierodonetsk since they arrived there a day or so ago and will likely deliver that city back to you soon ;)

http://ukranews.com/en/news/861012-foreign-legion-enter-sievierodonetsk-to-help-afu-haidai

Already the Russian Army is suffering a reversal of its position there and suffering heavy losses and has once again been put back into retreat.

It's great to see you have produced some of your own stuff to knock out the Russian tanks, I was surprised how obsolete Russian tanks were dating back to the 1960s! The Javelins have the advantage of night vision I believe while the NLAWS are a quick fire and forget solution. With all of the above to call on it looks like the orcs will soon be scrabbling to get out of Ukraine. Present signs seem to be that they are starting to crack quite badly, morale falling apart. The Chechens and others within Russia don't want to go and units are refusing to fight and beginning to turn and leave seems to be the news stories coming in here. Good luck!
TC ,while i am sure the foreign.legion guys are greatly appreciated, you seem to be actively discrediting ukrainian armed forces and territorial defense forces.
They stopped and fundamentally neutralized  a multi front complete invasion by the russian army and black sea fleet.
This is before any volunteer company showed up and they were facing mvd, helicoptor and paratrooper assualts, constant cruise missle strikes on airfields,supply depots  and infrastructure , amphibious assaults, wagner mecernaries,(which includes modern jet aircraft) syrian and chechen mercenaries,etc etc.
They also have 100s of battalions that number  700 to1000 each.

Sorry a couple of companies of 100 foreign fighters or even a battalion or two ,is a drop in the bucket in the big picture.
I think the biggest help they give is in continued training of new ukrainian volunteers and training on the new weapons systems.

Ukraine had a lot of their own weapons, stugna vids are almost endless in how many out there of tanks,armoured vehicles and kamaz trucks they have hit.
 The single largest russian loss in the war is the Moskva, without its AA AS, the entire game shifted the black sea.
That was done with neptunes

Lets give full credit where its due.
Russua bit off more than it could chew with just ukrainian forces,period,and ujrainex making them choke on it with their soldiers bravery.

The west is likely helping in jeeping the coubtry going ,funded ,as russias strongg point at present is cutting off exports thru the black sea.

They have a limited navy in the black sea and its getting smaller daily
Ships not sunk are damaged and will take years to repair.

The operations ships and subs are pulled at the fringe of engaement areas as they fear losing more.
Airsupport is minimum as they fear losing more planes.

Its hard to win an operation if you are scared to use the keys to advatages.

I hope ukraine takes out the port in sevestopol eventually.

Rusdua feared losing a shere of influence in the black sea. Now they will be lucky to hold what they once had,and will be a decade to build back up the ship count.
They should have spent these billions in a port in goergia republics that took,they might have retained thier black sea fleet

They are in danger of losing most if it



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 05, 2022, 03:15:24 PM
TC ,while i am sure the foreign.legion guys are greatly appreciated, you seem to be actively discrediting ukrainian armed forces and territorial defense forces.
They stopped and fundamentally neutralized  a multi front complete invasion by the russian army and black sea fleet.
This is before any volunteer company showed up and they were facing mvd, helicoptor and paratrooper assualts, constant cruise missle strikes on airfields,supply depots  and infrastructure , amphibious assaults, wagner mecernaries,(which includes modern jet aircraft) syrian and chechen mercenaries,etc etc.
They also have 100s of battalions that number  700 to1000 each.

Sorry a couple of companies of 100 foreign fighters or even a battalion or two ,is a drop in the bucket in the big picture.
I think the biggest help they give is in continued training of new ukrainian volunteers and training on the new weapons systems.

Ukraine had a lot of their own weapons, stugna vids are almost endless in how many out there of tanks,armoured vehicles and kamaz trucks they have hit.
 The single largest russian loss in the war is the Moskva, without its AA AS, the entire game shifted the black sea.
That was done with neptunes

Lets give full credit where its due.
Russua bit off more than it could chew with just ukrainian forces,period,and ujrainex making them choke on it with their soldiers bravery.

The west is likely helping in jeeping the coubtry going ,funded ,as russias strongg point at present is cutting off exports thru the black sea.

They have a limited navy in the black sea and its getting smaller daily
Ships not sunk are damaged and will take years to repair.

The operations ships and subs are pulled at the fringe of engaement areas as they fear losing more.
Airsupport is minimum as they fear losing more planes.

Its hard to win an operation if you are scared to use the keys to advatages.

I hope ukraine takes out the port in sevestopol eventually.

Rusdua feared losing a shere of influence in the black sea. Now they will be lucky to hold what they once had,and will be a decade to build back up the ship count.
They should have spent these billions in a port in goergia republics that took,they might have retained thier black sea fleet

They are in danger of losing most if it

Ukrainian forces have done well Jumper and I don't wish it to come across that they haven't had a large part to play in the success against Russian forces. I wouldn't however understate how a lot of success has occurred as a result of western intervention primarily from the UK but also some from the US ;)

The number of foreigners purported to have gone to Ukraine numbered as high as 20,000. How many are still there who knows but they went there early on within the first few days & weeks of the war, some before. While not all of them would have been ex-servicemen, trained or much ability on the battlefield, many probably most of them would have been since it tends to attract those types and less so of complete newbies to the war scene. So of those that are ex-servicemen types odds are most of them will have been trained up very well, some likely veterans having been a part of other theatres of war. On top of that a fair amount of them are likely to have been equipped with weapons and protective gear that are more advanced/expensive than the standard gear the Ukrainian soldier will likely have. Some of their gear will be long range sniper rifles capable of hitting targets from a long way away, others will likely have close range assault rifles, semi automatics with a lot of quick & heavy fire power. Of the more close combat troops some will likely be more on the SAS (probably your Navy Seals) special ops types or training close to it able to move quickly and change position quickly adept at storming through city terrain and taking the enemy by surprise.

Now we've past on a fair amount of training to Ukrainian forces over the years and they are no doubt deploying some of this. However, I'm pretty sure that behind the scenes there is a lot of direction going on from UK and possibly US military intelligence & command telling Ukrainian forces where to attack, when and how. They'll no doubt have surveillance from military satellites as to Russian troop movements as they unfold and through their military knowledge will know of the right strategies to deploy to hit the Russians at the right time to exact maximum damage.

I personally think that a lot of Ukrainian success has not only been down to of course themselves and Russian mistakes but also to the above foreign intervention and in addition to western weaponry they have received. Remember that weaponry wouldn't have been sent if it wasn't needed it would have been a pointless waste of money. I think to date a lot of the involvement of the Foreign Legion has likely been kept secluded but I'm pretty sure it's been there all along, around Kyiv, probably Kharkiv and elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 05, 2022, 03:16:53 PM
Almost all experienced combat troops of the LPR and DPR are now either dead or wounded.


The rest are poorly equipped and untrained.


Serves the gangsters and traitors right.


Girkin is inconsolable ...hello darkness my old friend sums up his broadcasts perfectly,and he's not alone in his despair among the Putler ass-licking separatists >:D


This is what happens when you get in bed with the Devil.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 05, 2022, 03:41:26 PM
Many of the orcs are being killed by 18 years old former  drones hobbyists who now spend their days hunting the orcs.


Regular drones outfitted to carry small anti-personnel munitions.


Most of their kills are unsuspecting orcs hiding in residential areas or tree groves.


Is that humiliating Russia too much for you Macron ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 05, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Dpr major general Roman kutuzov
(Formerly Russian 39th army chief of staff)
Was killed in donbas.

Story is he ordered the commanders of 1st and 100th motorized infantry to advance, they refused.
Being under pressure by his superiors to gain *something* he led the advance himself and was hit by artillery ,which is exactly what the commanders had said would occur.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 06, 2022, 01:15:48 AM
Team Biden has diddled and Ukrainians are paying the price

From CNN
US President Biden says he won't send rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russia
US President Joe Biden said he won't send rockets to Ukraine that could reach
Russia amid CNN reporting that the US is preparing to approve advanced,
long-range rocket systems for Ukraine. The Russians have warned the US
would “cross a red line” if it supplies the systems.
http://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-30-22/h_c3a8cf0d4d62d4b155d10c05b592c739

Doesn't Russia consider Donbass Russia?

Biden’s decision to boost Ukraine’s artillery took too long — and Ukraine
is paying the price

http://nypost.com/2022/06/02/bidens-decision-to-boost-ukraines-artillery-took-too-long-and-ukraine-is-paying-the-price/


Biden wrongly restricts Ukraine’s option to conduct counter-fires
President Biden cannot repeat President Lyndon Johnson’s mistake during
the Vietnam War — watching the North Vietnamese march soldiers and
equipment down the Ho Chi Min trail in Laos and Cambodia and doing
nothing about it until they entered South Vietnam.

Providing HIMARS to Ukraine is the right decision, but telling Zelensky their
use is restricted to “key targets on the battlefield in Ukraine” keeps his
soldiers and civilians in the kill zone with no means to retaliate. The option
to conduct counter-fires cannot be restricted.
http://thehill.com/opinion/international/3508919-biden-wrongly-restricts-ukraines-option-to-conduct-counter-fires/


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 06, 2022, 01:23:24 AM
Team Biden undermining Ukraine says Russia's invasion of Ukraine will end through diplomacy

Ham-handed administration threatens unprecedented public support for Ukraine
Few major issues unite American public opinion, but the war in Ukraine does.
Yet the Biden administration’s inconsistent response, lack of planning and
poor messaging threaten American public support for Ukraine.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ham-handed-administration-threatens-unprecedented-public-support-for-ukraine/ar-AAY70Kk

Biden changes his mind after saying: ‘We’re not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that strike into Russia’
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/06/01/biden-changes-his-mind-after-saying-were-not-going-to-send-to-ukraine-rocket-systems-that-strike-into-russia-1244805/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 06, 2022, 02:57:15 AM
Ukraine has already received the promised long-range rocket systems from the USA.


The systems supplied have a longer range than the MLRS the orcs have.


Ukraine has been supplied with four Batteries with more to follow.


It takes two to three weeks of training before the Ukrainian troops can start using them and they started training last week...so the orcs will start getting battered by them in one to two weeks time.


Here in the UK we're now gifting Ukraine  M270 MLRS it was announced today. :)


One could say the trap has now been set to obliterate Putler's military in Ukraine.


The Donbas and Crimea are not recognised as Russian land by NATO,so they are open to attack from Ukraine.


Now to spring and close the trap.


All his remaining orc forces within Ukraine are now in the east and Kherson/Crimea regions,so they can now be targeted by the MLRS the USA and UK  are supplying..on top of the long-range Howitzers the USA and France have already supplied...carnage will ensue  >:D


Putler wanted genocide in Ukraine..he may well get his wish,but the genocide may well turn out to be of young Russian orcs.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 06, 2022, 04:19:27 AM
I'm not sure if the courage shown by the Ukrainians is in their nature or whether they're drawing it from their leader.


President Zelensky " The fight is here.I need ammunition,not a ride " has just been at the frontline.....near Lysychansk,west of Severodonetsk.
That area of Luhansk has seen heavy fighting around the clock in recent weeks.


He was briefed on the situation and handed out awards to soldiers.


He also made a similar visit to Soledar in the Donetsk region.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 06, 2022, 08:17:54 AM
oh William, yur so FUNNY with yur jokes about Buyden!
congress approved weapons to ukraine...
when Trump was in office he stipulated that Ukraine COULDN'T use the weapons
and they could only be stored for future use
and of course Trump was impeached when he COMPLETELY BLOCKED all military aid to Ukraine for several months until Ukraine could fabricate some scandal with Buyden's son
and let's not forget SOMEONE removed from the 2016 Republican platform document, a provision for arming Ukraine against Russian aggression
and also let's NOT FORGET the Republicans who voted against the legislation to arm Ukraine
and Fox Media's support of Putin over Buyden

of COURSE you wanna attack Buyden, while CLAIMING you dislike Putin
but in actuality, you support EVERYTHING that Putin represents

Title: Putin's demands leads to death of another Russian General.
Post by: ML on June 06, 2022, 09:30:01 AM
Putin's demands leads to death of another Russian General.

Putin ordered Russian General Roman Kutuzov to complete the task by the end of the day, no matter what.

"In this regard, Kutuzov ordered the commanders of the 1st and 100th separate motorized rifle brigades to personally lead troops to storm the Ukrainian positions, but they refused to comply with the order, as they understood the risk to their lives," Tsymbaliuk said.

"Realizing what consequences he will face in case of failure to fulfill the task set by Putin, General Kutuzov decided to personally lead the offensive and was killed by artillery fire of the Armed Forces of Ukraine."
Kutuzov  died near the village of Mykolaivka in the Popasna district of Luhansk Oblast. This settlement is located not far from the Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway, which Russian troops are trying to take control of to cut off part of the Ukrainian military units near Severodonetsk.

"When a general appears on the battlefield, this is, first of all, a managerial problem," military observer Denys Popovych earlier told Radio NV.

"This also happens in civilian life: when a top leader begins to manage the lower levels of enterprises, this indicates that either his orders are not being carried out, or the people who have to transmit these orders vertically are out, i.e. they do not work. Or they are not listened to either. That is, the gap between the links, between the highest and the lowest. This explains the appearance of Russian generals at the front."
In previous actions, Kutuzov did not spare his personnel and deliberately sent people to slaughter with an understanding of what the losses would be.

"Thanks to his attitude towards military personnel as 'cannon fodder,' the morale and psychological state of the personnel of the formations subordinate to him was extremely low, the commanders of regiments and companies did not want to lead their people into the attack and constantly sabotaged the command's offensive plans."

Ukrainian military sources reported:  "Russian General Roman Kutuzov has been officially denazified and demilitarized."
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 06, 2022, 10:17:05 AM
when Trump was in office he stipulated that Ukraine COULDN'T use the weapons
and they could only be stored for future use

Prove it, surely you have some evidence for that statement

and of course Trump was impeached when he COMPLETELY BLOCKED all military aid to Ukraine for several months until Ukraine could fabricate some scandal with Buyden's son
and let's not forget SOMEONE removed from the 2016 Republican platform document, a provision for arming Ukraine against Russian aggression

Wooooo Boy, do you have things upside down and backwards. Crack head Boy Biden
received $70-80K per month from being on a Ukrainian Energy board. The Crack
head knew zero Russian, zero Ukrainian and had zero experience in the Energy
sector. It was payola pure and simple.

VP Joe held back a billion in aid until they fired the prosecutor who was investigating
his crack head son. I posted a Youtube video of Joe bragging about it here on this
very forum.


and also let's NOT FORGET the Republicans who voted against the legislation to arm Ukraine

80% of the Republicans voted for the arms package


of COURSE you wanna attack Buyden, while CLAIMING you dislike Putin
but in actuality, you support EVERYTHING that Putin represents

That is an outright lie.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 06, 2022, 10:45:40 AM
“Prove it, surely you have some evidence for that statement “

but of course,
http://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/12/ukraine-us-missile-weapons-russia-480985

http://samm.dsca.mil/loanote/javelin-physical-security-and-accountability-plan

http://media.defense.gov/2020/Sep/01/2002488973/-1/-1/1/DODIG-2020-121_REDACTEDV1.PDF



“Wooooo Boy, do you have things upside down and backwards. Crack head Boy Biden
received $70-80K per month from being on a Ukrainian Energy board. The Crack
head knew zero Russian, zero Ukrainian and had zero experience in the Energy
sector. It was payola pure and simple. “



this is a pretty normal practice of companies who are raising money in the stock market
that’s WHY he was brought into this gas business, to help them sell stock
Hunter Biden was a political celebrity with a lot of connections
Even Sean Hannity from Fox News asked Hunter Biden to use his connections to get his daughter into an elite school

if you’re gonna get mad at Hunter Biden for doing this, the ALSO get mad at every sports celebrity who makes a commercial
someone cashing in just by famous and well connected
you’d have to include Trump and his kids, plus half of Hollywood, etc

look how many of Trump’s team were arrested and charged with crimes
and for Biden, ZERO

meanwhile, this week, we start a public congressional hearing about Trump’s second impeachment, you know the one about him overthrowing the election results and make himself president

“80% of the Republicans voted for the arms package”

yeah, the far right of the Republican party, the ones closest to Trump voted against it
pretty much people you’d vote for with no hesitation
and of course with nearly no democratic resistance to the bill

“That is an outright lie. “

Putin, is white supremest religious autocrat
you want to give the church the right to control ALL people’s lives, even those NOT of your faith
so what’s the difference….

Tell me you’re NOT prejudiced against other races…

so what’s the difference Beel?
which leader’s sentiments are closer to your own?
Biden’s or Putin’s?

c'mon man!
I know the answer to that question and so do you





Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 06, 2022, 11:20:33 AM
“Prove it, surely you have some evidence for that statement “

but of course,
http://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/12/ukraine-us-missile-weapons-russia-480985

http://samm.dsca.mil/loanote/javelin-physical-security-and-accountability-plan

http://media.defense.gov/2020/Sep/01/2002488973/-1/-1/1/DODIG-2020-121_REDACTEDV1.PDF

Quote from your first article

"Washington urges Kyiv to use the Javelins only for defensive purposes and
requires that the weapons be stored in a secure facility away from the conflict,
there are no geographic restrictions on the actual deployment of the missiles,
U.S. officials said, which means that Ukrainian forces can transport, distribute
and use them at any time."


Your second article requires that the Jav missiles be kept in a secure location
so they don't get stolen. Do you read your own links? I do.

Your third article is more of the same. None of your backup says that Ukrainians
can't deploy Javelin missiles anywhere in Ukraine. ALL the articles were about
keeping the missiles secure and to keep track of them. Ukrainians in the past
have been known to steal things and divert military good to others for money.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 06, 2022, 11:38:55 AM

Putin, is white supremest religious autocrat
you want to give the church the right to control ALL people’s lives, even those NOT of your faith
so what’s the difference….

Tell me you’re NOT prejudiced against other races…

so what’s the difference Beel?
which leader’s sentiments are closer to your own?
Biden’s or Putin’s?

c'mon man!
I know the answer to that question and so do you


I am NOT prejudiced against other races.
I am closer to Biden sentiments than to Putin's. 
Biden is a F#ck up but Putin is far more so.
I do not want any church to control peoples lives.

All your accusations against me are pure fantasy.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 06, 2022, 11:53:02 AM
here ya go


http://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-leaving-out-key-detail-trump-javelin-sale-to-ukraine-2019-11


are you pro-choice then?
or do you prefer the church to decide what abortion rights there are?

trust me TALL WHITE MAN, you ain't EVEN CLOSE to being a subject I fantasize about!!!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 06, 2022, 04:38:13 PM
are you pro-choice then?
or do you prefer the church to decide what abortion rights there are?

A false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides
when there are many options or sides.

trust me TALL WHITE MAN, you ain't EVEN CLOSE to being a subject I fantasize about!!!

I am glad, but that doesn't make your accusations any more credible.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2022, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from your first article

"Washington urges Kyiv to use the Javelins only for defensive purposes and requires that the weapons be stored in a secure facility away from the conflict, there are no geographic restrictions on the actual deployment of the missiles, U.S. officials said, which means that Ukrainian forces can transport, distribute
and use them at any time."


Your second article requires that the Jav missiles be kept in a secure location so they don't get stolen. Do you read your own links? I do.

Your third article is more of the same. None of your backup says that Ukrainians can't deploy Javelin missiles anywhere in Ukraine. ALL the articles were about keeping the missiles secure and to keep track of them. Ukrainians in the past have been known to steal things and divert military good to others for money.


That's not exactly accurate.  Ukraine had to store the Javelins (delivered during the Trump administration) in Western Ukraine.  They were not to be used in Donbas, which is where the fighting was occurring.  They could only be used as a deterrent, which means, not at all.


Trump also froze a $400 million military package approved by Congress until Zelensky delivered dirt on Hunter Biden.  That was reversed thanks to a whistleblower.   
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2022, 05:14:15 PM
Putin, is white supremest religious autocrat


I don't believe Putin is religious. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 06, 2022, 05:21:25 PM
Another Russian Lt .general, in command of the 49th army currently occupying kherson oblast ,was killed today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 06, 2022, 05:23:41 PM

I don't believe Putin is religious.

No,but he is sure to get Kirrils approval and blessing in everything.

How much do you thibk the ukrainian orthodoxy seperating from kirrils orbit in 2019 effected this?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 06, 2022, 06:04:58 PM
Nearly all politicians who USE religion, are themselves non-religious
Trump and Putin are both good examples
however, they will both invoke religious icons to manipulate the public
this is what I refer to

to be a politician with appeal to the lowest common denominator of uneducated, ignorant people
ya gotta be sellin’ them some of that “opiate of the masses”
these people are all primed to be believe in nonsense, because according to Marx, they NEED TO!
You should read the whole paragraph that contains that famous quote
It reads better in its original German, but even in Englisch the idea is quite clear

Putin and Trump take advantage of these people
and become the architect of their ruin
while pinning the blame on “enemies”

Beel,
any limit YOU would place on a woman’s reproductive freedom
with anyone OTHER THAN HERSELF making ALL the decisions
would be an infringement on her reproductive rights

your religious beliefs
promote and tolerate social inequalities resulting from the differences inherent in the class structures of the status quo 

hey you guys wanna see my Karl Marx Achievement medal?
yes, it's FREAKIN' REAL!!!

shown next to Soviet era 1 Ruble coin
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 07, 2022, 03:01:40 AM
There is a twitter account that goes by the name of Dmitri UA ( @mdmitri91 )


He's an Estonian living in London and specializes in translating phone calls from Russian soldiers intercepted by the GUR and SBU.


Within the last 24 hours he put up a phone call between a named Russian soldier ( Konstantin Solovyev who is currently in Kharkiv Oblast ) and his mother regarding the treatment of Ukrainian POW's and civilians by the FSB and Russian troops.


I'm not going into the gory details on here...suffice to say the treatment of prisoners by the Russians is abhorrent....and the mindset,character and morals of their families in Russia is no better.


This is one example among hundreds of such phone calls that have been intercepted.


If you want to read it for yourself just google Dmitri on twitter.


The Russian forces and FSB in Ukraine need to be exterminated...they are totally depraved and less than human.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 07, 2022, 06:33:33 AM
Just been watching part 3 of the James Vasquez interview on Speak The Truth on youtube.


This is the USA volunteer fighter the orcs claimed to have killed twice in Ukraine....but they lied as they do ALL the time.


He's back in the USA now,but he's selling everything,including his home,and going back to Ukraine until the war ends and then he's going to help rebuild the country.


He was talking about a raid him and his team of 12  made in May in the Donetsk region.


The raid was,he later found out,on an elite Siberian platoon...who just ran and left all their equipment behind....the capture of which was all filmed and put out there.


The interviewer was rather perplexed that they'd just ran and asked why ?


The answer was "Well they're not there to meet guys like us..they're there to find and destroy civilian areas and kill civilians .The last thing they want to do is meet guys like us ".


Let that sink in...and hopefully you're as shocked as the interviewer was.


Putler , his Kremlin cronies,and his Russian state tv staff need putting down ...and not humanely.





Title: 2nd Russian General killed on June 6, 2022
Post by: ML on June 07, 2022, 08:16:32 AM
Another Russian Lt .general, in command of the 49th army currently occupying kherson oblast ,was killed today.

Lieutenant General Roman Berdnikov, commander of the Russian Federation’s 29th Army, was killed in Ukraine this morning (June 6, 2022) near Severodonetsk, making him Russia’s highest-ranking general killed.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 08, 2022, 04:42:09 AM
The Institute for the study of War says Kremlin's efforts to censor information about deceased troops exacerbates  domestic tensions .


Well in the spirit of full disclosure i can inform those Russians experiencing rising social tensions that as of today 31,500 Russian orcs have been killed in Ukraine.


I suspect the target aimed for is 100,000 by the end of the year.


No doubt the incoming long-range MLRS death-dealers Ukraine is now receiving,which outrange your systems, will increase the momentum of dead Russian orcs littering Ukraine's land.


Of course the way to stop it is to depose your deranged President and his Kremlin.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 08, 2022, 11:48:58 AM
Looks like the Britons captured in Mariupol could be up for being executed by Russia:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/07/pro-russia-officials-open-trial-against-britons-captured-fighting-in-ukraine

Russia is claiming they are mercenaries and so not subject to rules for enemy nation troops. My guess is that Russia may execute them to try and dissuade foreigners from joining the fight with Ukraine. One of them is kind of Muslim decent my guess would be, he had a fiance in Ukraine the other had a wife. Think the one with the wife they may have interviewed him before the invasion.

Here Boris has survived a no confidence vote over the drinks at No.10. Though it looks like it may have just been used by closet Remainers like Jeremy Hunt to oust pro Brexit Boris. Zelensky seemed grateful Boris had survived the vote as his been a great ally to Ukraine and to be honest I would be doubtful if any other potential candidate in the Tory party would show anywhere near the support Boris had, possibly one or two might but much an unknown quantity.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 08, 2022, 12:03:03 PM
I'm not sure if the courage shown by the Ukrainians is in their nature or whether they're drawing it from their leader.

If you check their history, Ukrainians are widely recognized for their bravery
in Battle.


Ukrainians Have Been Defying Foreign Invaders for a Thousand Years.
Their Courage Is No Surprise

http://fee.org/articles/ukrainians-have-been-defying-foreign-invaders-for-a-thousand-years-their-courage-is-no-surprise/

You can research the Crimean war and many others.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 08, 2022, 03:26:02 PM
If you check their history, Ukrainians are widely recognized for their bravery
in Battle.


Ukrainians Have Been Defying Foreign Invaders for a Thousand Years.
Their Courage Is No Surprise

http://fee.org/articles/ukrainians-have-been-defying-foreign-invaders-for-a-thousand-years-their-courage-is-no-surprise/ (http://fee.org/articles/ukrainians-have-been-defying-foreign-invaders-for-a-thousand-years-their-courage-is-no-surprise/)

You can research the Crimean war and many others.


Yes i know all that.


However, the Brits were brave right through our history too..i'm not convinced we would be if Russia invaded us now though.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 09, 2022, 05:37:02 AM
Zagorsk Optical plant near Moscow is now on fire. >:D


They make ( made ? ) various optics for the orc military.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 09, 2022, 05:59:35 AM
Orcs filmed by locals now having to leave Melitopol to try and strengthen their Kherson frontlines where their situation is rapidly deteriorating under Ukrainian troops offensive and air strikes.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 09, 2022, 08:41:30 PM

However, the Brits were brave right through our history too..i'm not convinced we would be if Russia invaded us now though.

You can't even get there from here (Russia). They would have to drive through
Ukraine (let me know how that goes) then Poland, Germany, France. My guess
is they probably lose the element of surprise.  ;D

I imagine they would find at least 2 million Scots drawing lots to be first in
line when they came out of the Channel Tunnel (assuming it didn't spring a leak).

(http://scliving.coop/downloads/3643/download/bagpipers.png?cb=226ac9e04324a2fc9af14581e23c617b)

Little known fact: The last known Scotsman who went out of his way to avoid
a fight was Ewan Angus* in 1846.

*It was later learned he was only 10% Scot and he lived that
day forward with an asterisk by his name.

 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 10, 2022, 02:50:35 AM
 :-[

http://youtu.be/PezdnpMrItY
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 10, 2022, 02:57:16 AM
Orcs filmed by locals now having to leave Melitopol to try and strengthen their Kherson frontlines where their situation is rapidly deteriorating under Ukrainian troops offensive and air strikes.
You need ammunition to do that. Oh wait...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine

Maybe you're just salty that some fellow Brits are about to cop death by firing squad.

(FWIW I oppose capital punishment)

This channel has fairly balanced analysis.

http://youtu.be/_OPk2nUK7q8

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 10, 2022, 08:32:25 AM
Just for you.


Up to 300 Wagner terrorists working for Putler were killed yesterday when Ukraine forces struck their base in Kadiivka,.Luhansk region..just one survivor.


Apparently their screams could be heard for up to an hour after the strike...according to locals.


Looks like Ukraine had ammo for that artillery strike eh ?


There's film out there of the post-strike fire..unlike you i only post verified news .


I suggest you stop looking at pro-Russian youtube  and Russian propoganda sites for your info...you might appear less clueless then.


How's your Ukraine will fall in a couple of days prediction working out for you ? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 10, 2022, 10:45:54 AM
Up to 300 Wagner terrorists working for Putler were killed yesterday when Ukraine forces struck their base in Kadiivka,.Luhansk region..just one survivor.
Apparently their screams could be heard for up to an hour after the strike...according to locals.
Looks like Ukraine had ammo for that artillery strike eh ?


There's film out there of the post-strike fire..unlike you i only post verified news .


OK . . .  so where is reference to your 'verified' news.  I can't find anything about this on the Internet.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 10, 2022, 12:38:50 PM
Here you go.

http://english.nv.ua/nation/ukraine-s-army-destroys-wagner-mercenaries-base-in-occupied-kadiivka-50248912.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 10, 2022, 01:34:36 PM
OK . . .  so where is reference to your 'verified' news.  I can't find anything about this on the Internet.


Do you need your hand holding to find out anything all the time ?


Just google Wagner's killed in Kadiivka..there's ten sources on the first page alone..some showing the aftermath of the strike on film.


It really isn't difficult.


Different sources do say different numbers were killed...which is why i said UP TO 300.


According to Telegram channels associated with the Wagner Group between 150-300 were killed in the attack.


As i said..."verified".


rwd123 has gone quiet again i see...i reckon i must have ruined his weekend ; )))
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 10, 2022, 02:11:43 PM
You need ammunition to do that. Oh wait...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine)

Maybe you're just salty that some fellow Brits are about to cop death by firing squad.


You do realize that's all for show, correct?


Those Brits are part of the Ukrainian armed forces, and therefore, are entitled to protections under the Geneva Convention.


Personally, were I Boris Johnson, I would be stating that if my nationals are illegally executed, UK bombers will be levelling Donetsk, but then, I have that hot running Slavic blood.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 10, 2022, 03:55:18 PM

Do you need your hand holding to find out anything all the time ?
Just google Wagner's killed in Kadiivka..there's ten sources on the first page alone..some showing the aftermath of the strike on film.

I did google and found nothing.
I find a lot on google for other items I search for, but rarely find anything about what you post.

So yes, I do need hand holding for your references.

I find it difficult to understand why you spend time writing about what you have read, and then won't spend 15 seconds to copy and post the URL for your story like most of the rest do here.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 10, 2022, 05:27:40 PM

You do realize that's all for show, correct?
Of course it was a sham trial, and any execution would need to be signed off by the Kremlin. Having tortured and executed Russian prisoners AND FILMING IT was probably not a great idea! Hard to know if they're now going to be used as political bargaining chips or sacrificial lambs for an 'eye for an eye'.

The UK cannot flatten Donetsk unless it wants to be flattened itself. Those behind the scenes in the UK understand these guys are expendable and useful for UK's own propaganda campaign.

CB - are you so far brainwashed that anything that you disagree with is pro-Russian? I am for peace and for truth. It's not presented in MSM, either in the West or in Russia.

You do realize Ukraine, according to Zelensky, is losing men at a rate of 15-20,000 a month (injured, captured, KIA)? The Ukrainian government is refusing to share intel (i.e. fatality statistics) with the US government because it is probably worse than that.

http://archive.ph/UOg9d

I don't trust any news report and will wait at least seven days to see if it is verifiable. Seven weeks is better. A classic example is the (unverified) claims of rape by Russian soldiers, the leveraged used to gain military support, and the subsequent firing of the Denisova. Even the reporting of the known facts had to be corrected:

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ousted-ukrainian-official-breaks-silence-admits-she-lied-about-mass-rape-russians




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 10, 2022, 05:54:46 PM
ML,


I alert people on here to up to date news,often before it's put out there for the masses,which doesn't come from propagandists but from factual sources.


Now,anybody who wants to read more about said news should have the wherewithal to do a simple search and find it sometime within the next 24 hours....as Bo did on this particular news item.


After reading your post i assumed the news hadn't reached the masses .but after typing the words " Wagner's killed in Kadiivka "into a simple google search i was astonished  to see all the news sources available at the time you made that post.


You didn't look very hard before questioning me did you ?


But then i remember you had the same issues when posters on here were making donations to the Armed Forces of Ukraine through the National Bank of Ukraine.It was straightforward for everyone except you...you had to complicate it.


If you can't be bothered  doing a simple google search,then i sure as hell can't be bothered copy and pasting links for you if it's even available to copy and paste at that particular time.


But hey,as it's soooo difficult for you to find anything about the news i post i won't bother anymore. :)







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 10, 2022, 06:29:40 PM
Of course it was a sham trial, and any execution would need to be signed off by the Kremlin. Having tortured and executed Russian prisoners AND FILMING IT was probably not a great idea! Hard to know if they're now going to be used as political bargaining chips or sacrificial lambs for an 'eye for an eye'.

The UK cannot flatten Donetsk unless it wants to be flattened itself. Those behind the scenes in the UK understand these guys are expendable and useful for UK's own propaganda campaign.

CB - are you so far brainwashed that anything that you disagree with is pro-Russian? I am for peace and for truth. It's not presented in MSM, either in the West or in Russia.

You do realize Ukraine, according to Zelensky, is losing men at a rate of 15-20,000 a month (injured, captured, KIA)? The Ukrainian government is refusing to share intel (i.e. fatality statistics) with the US government because it is probably worse than that.

http://archive.ph/UOg9d (http://archive.ph/UOg9d)

I don't trust any news report and will wait at least seven days to see if it is verifiable. Seven weeks is better. A classic example is the (unverified) claims of rape by Russian soldiers, the leveraged used to gain military support, and the subsequent firing of the Denisova. Even the reporting of the known facts had to be corrected:

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ousted-ukrainian-official-breaks-silence-admits-she-lied-about-mass-rape-russians (http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ousted-ukrainian-official-breaks-silence-admits-she-lied-about-mass-rape-russians)


When did these two Brits torture and execute Russian prisoners and film it ?


Do you have proof of this claim ?


At least Zelensky gives figures out for losses which Putler is clearly terrified to do..so what does that tell you about the orcs losses ?


When was the last time the Kremlin dared to tell it's people the losses their military is incurring ?


I'll tell you,,it was back on March 25th when they claimed they had lost 1,351 troops.


Wonder what they're hiding ?


Hmmmm ?


The orcs have been forced to raise their Military recruitment age to accept grandads ...that's how desperate they're becoming...as well as having to send ancient T-62 Tanks to the frontline.


The Pentagon claims the orcs have lost over a thousand Tanks alone...


Ukraine will continue to get new arms shipments from the West..whilst Russia is running out of modern equipment.


As for the unverified claims of rape..well the first orc has now been charged with  killing a Ukrainian civilian and raping the mans wife in Brovarsky ( Kyiv region ) .
The charmer goes by the name of Mikhail Romanov...so you can follow his trial.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 10, 2022, 06:49:40 PM
When did these two Brits torture and execute Russian prisoners and film it ?
...
At least Zelensky gives figures out for losses
My comment was in reference to Ukrainian war crimes, not specifically the foreigners in question.

Apparently the Ukrainian government previously significantly understated the losses (by a factor of 2-3x), according to a Ukrainian government source:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61742736

Further commentary on losses (staggering numbers if true), time will tell the scale of the catastrophe:

http://youtu.be/UZSaJa1Uc8Q
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 10, 2022, 07:02:07 PM
My comment was in reference to Ukrainian war crimes, not specifically the foreigners in question.

Apparently the Ukrainian government previously significantly understated the losses (by a factor of 2-3x), according to a Ukrainian government source:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61742736 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61742736)

Further commentary on losses (staggering numbers if true), time will tell the scale of the catastrophe:




and what about the Russians not releasing any details of their losses since March 25th ?


No comment ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 10, 2022, 07:21:05 PM

and what about the Russians not releasing any details of their losses since March 25th ?
Ukraine isn't sharing this info with US Intel. That's different to public statements. As per the video the current losses and MIA may be 100,000+.

I have no idea but it appears the Russian casualty rate is lower than the first month. Russia has control of the airs and up to 20x more artillery so is unlikely to be at the same rate as the Ukrainians. Ukraine will not win a war of attrition.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 11, 2022, 01:11:49 AM
Of course it was a sham trial, and any execution would need to be signed off by the Kremlin. Having tortured and executed Russian prisoners AND FILMING IT was probably not a great idea! Hard to know if they're now going to be used as political bargaining chips or sacrificial lambs for an 'eye for an eye'.

Those Brits were not filmed executing Russian prisoners.  Nor am I aware of any such footage.  Please link to any credible (meaning non Russian) source of such information.

Quote
The UK cannot flatten Donetsk unless it wants to be flattened itself. Those behind the scenes in the UK understand these guys are expendable and useful for UK's own propaganda campaign.

HAHAHA.  Do you truly believe Russia cares one iota for the citizens of Donbas?  They intend to create a frozen conflict in this region, because a successful Ukraine (which is a looooong way in the future) is a threat to Russia's kleptocratic plutocrats.

Quote
You do realize Ukraine, according to Zelensky, is losing men at a rate of 15-20,000 a month (injured, captured, KIA)? The Ukrainian government is refusing to share intel (i.e. fatality statistics) with the US government because it is probably worse than that.

No, Ukraine isn't sharing any such information because of concerns it will fall into Russian hands.  That's why a lot of their information is tightly controlled.  That's also how they are able to locate Russian spies within their ranks.

US estimates are that Ukraine's total casualties are approximately the same as Russia's.  The difference is, Ukrainians are willing to die for their cause.  Russians are not that committed.

Quote
I don't trust any news report and will wait at least seven days to see if it is verifiable. Seven weeks is better. A classic example is the (unverified) claims of rape by Russian soldiers, the leveraged used to gain military support, and the subsequent firing of the Denisova. Even the reporting of the known facts had to be corrected:

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ousted-ukrainian-official-breaks-silence-admits-she-lied-about-mass-rape-russians (http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ousted-ukrainian-official-breaks-silence-admits-she-lied-about-mass-rape-russians)

You don't trust any sources, then quote an alt right website known for conspiracy theories and pro Russian propaganda. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 11, 2022, 06:36:41 AM
Now,anybody who wants to read more about said news should have the wherewithal to do a simple search and find it sometime within the next 24 hours....as Bo did on this particular news item.
You didn't look very hard before questioning me did you ?
If you can't be bothered  doing a simple google search, then i sure as hell can't be bothered copy and pasting links for you if it's even available to copy and paste at that particular time.

I already posted that I DID do not only a simple search, but an EXTENSIVE search on google. 

So I did LOOK VERY HARD before making my request to you for the URL.

Now it is true that BOE found links that I could not find.
I cannot explain that as I am able to find much info on a daily basis via google and other search engines for other items I am looking for.

And it is NOT a bother for you to cut and paste links.
You are right at the site.  The copy and paste takes less than 5 seconds to do.

There is some other reason you continually refuse to help your fellow posters here to quickly get to the full info you are providing a summary of.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 11, 2022, 08:39:51 AM
Ukraine isn't sharing this info with US Intel. That's different to public statements. As per the video the current losses and MIA may be 100,000+.

I have no idea but it appears the Russian casualty rate is lower than the first month. Russia has control of the airs and up to 20x more artillery so is unlikely to be at the same rate as the Ukrainians. Ukraine will not win a war of attrition.


Actually Russia doesn't have control of the airs.


In it's daily report from Ukraine the UK Ministry of Defence posted this today.


"Since April Russian medium bombers have likely launched dozens of 1960's era
kh22 air-launched heavy anti-ship missiles against land targets.
They are highly inaccurate and can therefore cause significant collateral damage and civilian casualties."


As i posted yesterday ..the orcs are running out of modern firepower...smart aren't i ?  ;D


"Russia is likely resorting to such inefficient weapon systems because it is running short of more precise modern missiles ,while Ukrainian air defences still deter it's tactical aircraft from conducting strikes across much of the country "


Nope no Russian control of the airs either.


Not looking too good for your heroes is it ?


Still no update since March 25th from the Kremlin on their losses i see .


You may want to stop filling your head full of pro-Russian propaganda and take a reality check. :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 12, 2022, 02:43:26 PM
I see Zelensky is now predicting 40,000 dead orcs by July.


Hang-on..i thought Ukraine was  running out of ammo ?


One must assume his meeting with Ben Wallace was very productive then  :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Stirlitz on June 12, 2022, 03:31:16 PM
Ukraine will not win a war of attrition.
Make no mistake, Ukraine WILL win this war. I mean we will liberate all territories occupied since 2014. Perhaps even since 1918. It is solely a matter of time. However much grit the Nazis like Scholz put there.

The only question is at what cost. How many lives will have to be sacrificed. It’s been already 10,000 military and uncounted tens of thousands civilians. Official estimates put the death toll in Mariupol at 20,000 but it could be between 50,000 and 100,000. A city of half a million once. Even when we liberate it we will never know the truth as the Russian incinerate bodies and remove rubble along with them. Can you imagine an entire city being simply wiped out in Europe along with the buildings and inhabitants in a brutal and careless matter? And it’s still okay with some people and politicians.

If we get enough supplies (first of all heavy weaponry and ammunition) promptly, the war will have been won by the end of this year.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 12, 2022, 04:01:23 PM
I think apart from any immediate resupplying of present arsenal of weapons the main thing will be the wait for the long range mobile multiple rocket launchers the UK & US have promised to send Ukraine. Apparently Ukrainian troops are to be trained in the UK on them and from what I gather whilst that is happening the multiple rocket launchers are being sent to Ukraine. So how long the training and the delivery will take who knows but my guess would be that it is in motion already and so hopefully won't take too long, pretty much every day that passes is significant.

It looks like Russia is repeating what they did in Mariupol in Severodonetsk so basically pounding the life out of a city with artillery thereby destroying all possible threat then moving on to the next city and repeating the same. My guess is that the Russians have shorter lines of supply and can protect their flanks easier in the Donbas and can move forward more easily.

So getting those long range multiple rocket launchers will be crucial in taking out Russia's artillery to reduce the ability of the Russians to pound a city into oblivion. For the moment it's really a case of Ukraine holding on in Severodonetsk for as long as possible and hope the long range multiple rocket launchers arrive in time to avoid being pushed out. There's also a possibility that the Russians may exhaust themselves in Severodonetsk if they keep up the present pace of the bombardment and assault upon the city. They'll be using a lot of shells and odds are losing more tanks and soldiers along the way. They've lost a lot of soldiers and tanks already and have shelled a lot so can probably only carry on so long. They're called up real old tanks now from the early 1960s so soon they will start to lose strength on the battlefield by no longer having much in the way of decent tanks to field. That only leaves their artillery left, they lose that and their conventional warfare will be largely at an end, so just a question of holding on.

We lost one of our Rambo's in Severodonetsk recently but no doubt many more there. It's further evidence to support sports that the Foreign Legion is there helping to keep the orcs from over running the city. My guess is that Ukraine can hold on there but it may still be a while before the multiple rocket launchers arrive and can turn around the situation there.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 12, 2022, 04:37:16 PM
Most of the foreign fighters are embedded within Ukrainian units, and are part of the Ukrainian army.  They are entitled to all the protections afforded Ukrainian soldiers.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 12, 2022, 06:39:37 PM
currently, Ukraine has set aside a large portion of its manpower reserves to train with new NATO weapons
they will likely be deployed by September with the portion of weapons they stockpiled instead of being sent to the "front"

Russia, without the appropriate Reservist counter-force (done deliberately)
will leave Putin with no choice but to use tactical nuclear weapons to prevent destruction of Russian military forces and complete military and political defeat

he's planning on doing this AFTER Ukraine fields it reserves and forms it into an offensive
Putin wants to completely wipe them and Ukraine out completely
so it's convieniant to have them all group together in the East and South, instead of being scattered all over Western Ukraine in training camps

Putin will escalate the nuclear conflict, which Ukraine can't respond to, and neither can NATO, as long as they're not effected

step 1: Remote atmospheric test

Least provocative would be Putin’s resumption of above-ground nuclear testing — by detonating a low-yield nuclear warhead high above Novaya Zemlya, the old Soviet test site in the Arctic, for example. While both the actual damage on the ground and radioactive fallout would be negligible, the psychological effect could be enormous: It would be the first nuclear explosion by a superpower since nuclear testing ended in 1992, and the first bomb detonated in the atmosphere by either the U.S. or Russia after such tests were outlawed by treaty in 1963. It would also be a potent reminder that Putin has tactical nuclear weapons in abundance — about 2,000 by last count — and is prepared to use them.

step 2: Atmospheric detonation above Ukraine

A more provocative demonstration would be an ultra-high-altitude explosion of a more powerful weapon over Ukraine itself. In a 1962 test, the U.S. detonated a 1.4-megaton H-bomb in the mid-Pacific, 250 miles above the Earth. The resulting electromagnetic pulse unexpectedly knocked out streetlights and disrupted telephone service in Hawaii, 900 miles distant. A similarly powerful EMP bomb above Kyiv would not only be visually spectacular but would likely plunge most of Ukraine into prolonged darkness and silence by shorting out computers, cellphones and other electronics.

step 3: use of small Nuetron Bombs directly on the battlefied in the East and South

Iskanders will be the preferred delivery platform, it's why he's held some back in reserve for this purpose...

so my guess is that this'll start happening in the fall, and maybe be overwith by next spring after surrender


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 13, 2022, 03:01:45 AM
Regarding Nukes one will have noticed the USA has gone a bit quiet lately regarding what's going on in Ukraine and the weapons shipments being sent.


The UK has also gone quiet following Ben Wallace's frank meeting with President Zelensky regarding what we'll be providing to Ukraine.


I have on good authority there is a VERY good reason for this.


Suffice to say if Putler uses Nukes in Ukraine he's in for a VERY nasty shock  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 13, 2022, 10:01:59 AM
your idea about the USA/UK transferring nukes to Ukraine would make a good skit for a Benny Hill Show!!

cuz, that’d be the ONLY place that’d ever happen!!
but at least there will be a chorus line of dancing girls with Benny Hill ogling them, like he was Trench at a Ukrainian model convention


Soviets were technically equal to the USA in nuclear weapons by 1955
their advantage over the USA was ‘scale” the Soviet Nuclear Weapons Program was HUGE!!
tens of thousands of the brightest engineers and scientists from 13 Soviet Socialist Republics
coupled with unlimited resources, their own mines, factories, military bases, power plants

see http://web.archive.org/web/20170519101448/http://russianforces.org/blog/2012/10/interesting_document_on_soviet.shtml


The first Soviet tactical nuclear weapon was the RDS-4, unveiled in 1953!!!
It used a composite core of 4.2kg Pu-239 and 6.8kg 90% enriched U-235 and had a nominal yield of 30 kilotons.   Total bomb weight was about 1000 kg

later in the year, they tested the RDS-5, the first “hollow core” implosion device with improved explosive lens

the important feature of this device was the introduction of tellurium-120 to create a low yield device with only 2 kg of plutonium!!!!  and because of the low amount of plutonium used, it created less fallout

and this is 1953!!!

this type of bomb turned into an EMP bomb (by just removing all shielding)
if detonated at 100,000 feet or so, could “knock out” ¼ of Ukraine ‘s electrical grid in a flash
and not do serious damage outside of Ukraine
while Russians have warning and can protect their systems ahead of time

so imagine Ukraine
with no drones
no communications
no electricity
no working high tech missile launchers
no working radar
and on and on

yet not a single window would be broken
not a single direct casualty

THEN
the russians attack, having all the things the Ukrainians don’t

don't you SEE this path down the mountain side?

the odds would QUICKLY shift to Russia's favor

and if they need to escalate one more step by using ground attack
then the West would have ALREADY ACCEPTED TWO nuclear escalations, and so would be likely to acceept one more
but I think they won't have to do this after an EMP attack on Ukraine, just hold on for a year until EVERYTHING COLLAPSES in Ukraine
and it'll scare EVERYBODY ELSE


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 13, 2022, 11:27:19 AM
I didn't read that post as suggesting the West would arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons.  But they may very well be willing to respond to a nuclear attack on European soil.


I think, krimster, that you give far, far too much credence to Soviet scientists.  The better half says Soviet intellectual life was dead.  Anything worth producing was stolen from the Germans (or later, the West), or was created mostly by scientists educated before the USSR took over education.  He was in the navy.  He told me of a piece of equipment on his ship, that was Soviet built, but based on a stolen American blueprint.  The equipment was having issues, and he was asked to look at it.  That was how he learned it was based on an American blueprint.  However, the Soviets had put some parts in backwards, and one part was missing completely.  The better half was able to fix the equipment by improvising a part from the original blueprint, much to the bewilderment of the chief engineer, who could not figure out how this piece of equipment could now function.  The BH says he had countless of such examples.


Don't assume, that, just because there were tens of thousands of scientists, that they were all capable of producing anything.  The vast majority could not, because education was so politicized.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 13, 2022, 12:00:58 PM
that's both true and false at the same time
there was some amazing talents in the CCCP
in some places, including nuclear weapons design, they eventually stopped copying US designs and did their own
but would still steal whenver they could...
they are STILL the world leader in centrifuge enrichment

their scale in the WMD related industries, were much larger than any western program


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 13, 2022, 01:11:41 PM

there was some amazing talents in the CCCP in some places,

Especially with railroad toilets.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 13, 2022, 02:18:09 PM
With Putler's recent interview in which he says it's his destiny to reclaim land that Russia lost after the break-up of the Soviet Union there is now no ambiguity in what lays ahead if Ukraine falls...a victorious raping and pillaging army won't just stop they'll keep advancing west.


No European country will be safe from the ravaging orc horde as far west as Germany..let's not forget Eastern Germany belonged to Russia and it's well known how partial to raping German women the orcs are...it's in their DNA.


Hopefully this will now stir Scholz into action rather than words regarding arming Ukraine with many heavy weapons.


I suspect if Putler takes Germany then he'll go for the rest of Europe.Bombing the UK would be his MO i suspect,hence why he keeps testing our air defences with his bombers.


Now Americans in there comfort zone may think "not our problem..no need for us to get involved",just as they did during WW2 until Pearl Harbour.but imagine how isolated the USA will be if Europe falls to Putler...he may well fancy reclaiming Alaska too.


Putler wants a new world order which doesn't include democracy...


China is becoming more bellicose by the week regarding Taiwan...so before you know where you are you could have Russia , China , North Korea,Syria and Iran lining up against you with your only remaining allies being Japan,Canada and Australia.


NATO needs to ensure Putler is beaten with his military destroyed in Ukraine...any sign of weakness and there will be no limit to the ambitions of Russia and China .


Financial sanctions against Russia ain't working..undermined by the money still being pumped into Russia for oil and gas,$97 billion since the start of the war,so they have to be stopped militarily, including with nukes if it comes to that.


Let no-one be under any illusions here...we are ALL on the edge of the precipice now.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 13, 2022, 03:46:08 PM
A lotta low-end shack villages for poor Russians are prevalent in the Russian Far East…
these predominantly STILL have outdoor squat toilettes
I call ‘em “Squatter Camps”  LOL!!

a long time ago, my wife had to show me “the proper way” to use a Russian Squat toilette
cuz, hell I ended up doing a “partial load” in my underwear!!  GROSS!!

a Russian squat toilette is a hole in the ground, surrounded by a ring of rocks
there is usually a wooden box nearby, with a stack of torn newspapers on top, held under a rock

how can you improve on the perfection of the last two centuries of locally developed toilette technology
everyone in Russia is used to this way, why change it?
let's instead devote all our resources to Rockets and Atomics, horrosho tovarisch?

and SO THEY DID!!!! AND THAT'S WHAT I REALLY DIG ABOUT THEM!!


hell yeah!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 13, 2022, 04:05:35 PM
Most of the foreign fighters are embedded within Ukrainian units, and are part of the Ukrainian army.  They are entitled to all the protections afforded Ukrainian soldiers.

Article just out on this shedding some light on what happens to most of the foreign fighters that volunteer to fight for Ukraine:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-3-000-british-volunteers-fighting-on-ukrainian-side-against-russia-says-georgian-commander-12633139
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 15, 2022, 01:01:04 AM
No,but he is sure to get Kirrils approval and blessing in everything.

How much do you thibk the ukrainian orthodoxy seperating from kirrils orbit in 2019 effected this?

I don't think it had any effect.

The first divisions of the church were in the early 1990's, in the years after the collapse of the USSR.  People came to blows on the streets in Ukraine.  I think Alexei calmed a lot of things.  He was probably more pragmatic.  Kiril is, IMHO, a lousy patriarch.  He's been caught up in scandals, selling goods illegally.  Not very "other worldly" behaviour.  So, I think he is easily blackmailed.  I'd be wanting to separate from a church led by him as well.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 15, 2022, 11:54:39 AM
Recent article on the situation of military aid given to Ukraine:

BBC News - Inside the room where Ukraine orders arms from the West
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61816337

Apparently Ukraine has also spent double the money they raised in tax to military spending of recent. Biden is about to spend a few more $bn to military aid, armaments to Ukraine. Ukraine must have used a lot of ammunition and gear as they reckon they are getting close to a shortage now. Russia has apparently gotten a lot more men but questions remain as to them being able to hold it together. To me I wonder how long the Russians can keep it up, I'm guessing they are getting continual supplies of ammunition even if they are using real old armaments.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 15, 2022, 02:31:14 PM
The huge problem Ukraine has is that they can't store any weapons or ammo in Ukraine.


Whenever they try a pro-Russian spy/collaborator/traitor tells the orcs where it is and a Russian cruise missile/Iskander  blows it up.


So everything has to be stored in other countries and drip-fed to the front by road as those missiles are not particularly good at hitting moving targets.


It does make supplying the Ukrainian troops at the front soooo slow though...especially in the Donbas region.


The Ukrainian artillery men who were training on how to use the HIMARS completed their training today.


USA sending them 4.


UK sending them 3


Germany sending them 3 it was announced today.


So Ukraine has ten to start with.


No doubt more will follow if they prove to be effective for Ukraine...the big advantage being that they can hit the orc Artillery in the Donbas without having to be taken all the way to the front.


However,there is no point sending more into Ukraine at this stage because until more Ukrainian Artillery men are trained on them they'll have to be stored somewhere in Ukraine at huge risk of being located by pro-Russian traitors and hit with orc missile strikes.


All those people urging the west to send more weapons faster are really not using their Brains and taking into consideration the huge amount (possibly millions ) of pro-Russian traitors living in Ukraine only too happy to make a quick phone call to the FSB to undermine Ukraine.


That USA Volunteer fighter James Vasquez was saying a new USA Volunteer joined them.After a couple of days he met a girl in the Kyiv area and took her back to their base to meet the rest of the unit.
Next day their base was hit by an orc missile strike.
This is what you're up against in Ukraine...a country full of pro-Russian traitors.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 15, 2022, 03:38:53 PM
The huge problem Ukraine has is that they can't store any weapons or ammo in Ukraine.


Whenever they try a pro-Russian spy/collaborator/traitor tells the orcs where it is and a Russian cruise missile/Iskander  blows it up.


So everything has to be stored in other countries and drip-fed to the front by road as those missiles are not particularly good at hitting moving targets.


It does make supplying the Ukrainian troops at the front soooo slow though...especially in the Donbas region.


The Ukrainian artillery men who were training on how to use the HIMARS completed their training today.


USA sending them 4.


UK sending them 3


Germany sending them 3 it was announced today.


So Ukraine has ten to start with.


No doubt more will follow if they prove to be effective for Ukraine...the big advantage being that they can hit the orc Artillery in the Donbas without having to be taken all the way to the front.


However,there is no point sending more into Ukraine at this stage because until other Ukrainian Artillery men are trained on them they'll have to be stored somewhere in Ukraine at huge risk of being located by pro-Russian traitors and hit with orc missile strikes.

I guess it's better for it to get there slow than not at all. The info on the training and armaments is good to know CB that soon the more heavy longer range armaments from the west are going to have a chance to turn the tide of battle.

Just seen this report on CNN:

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/06/15/ukraine-us-weapon-rifle-drill-wedeman-pkg-nr-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn

A good insight into the western weaponry being sent. Apparently the Russian heavy guns outnumber Ukraine's 10 to 1 so the arrival of the better western heavy armaments will hopefully turn that around.

The Ukrainian soldier guy in the video reckoned Ukraine was losing over 100 troops a day, that would probably likely be about right, so over 1000 every ten days, over 3000 a month. While Russian troop losses might have been higher during the Kyiv phase of the invasion I'm guessing that they might be somewhat similar in this second stage of the invasion so far. Once those western heavy armaments get to the front though that could change. Sounds like Russia has a lot of heavy guns but once they lose those then it may become questionable where they can go since I would assume their conventional means of warfare would have been largely defeated.

Putler the other day seem to suggest that Russia could carry on with the war for years, 23 years like Peter the Great. The state Russia's economy is in and it's military I'm pretty doubtful they have anywhere near that sort of go in them. If Ukraine can break their attack in the coming weeks then it could soon be over for Russia, just a question of when or if they throw in the towel.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 15, 2022, 04:12:03 PM
The huge problem Ukraine has is that they can't store any weapons or ammo in Ukraine.

All those people urging the west to send more weapons faster are really not using their Brains and taking into consideration the huge amount (possibly millions ) of pro-Russian traitors living in Ukraine only too happy to make a quick phone call to the FSB to undermine Ukraine.

That USA Volunteer fighter James Vasquez was saying a new USA Volunteer joined them.After a couple of days he met a girl in the Kyiv area and took her back to their base to meet the rest of the unit.

Next day their base was hit by an orc missile strike.
This is what you're up against in Ukraine...a country full of pro-Russian traitors.

There are 100 solutions to your dilemma(s). If the Ukrainians were too
stupid to send less than a hundred men to artillery/missile/HIMARS school
then they should give Eastern Ukraine and the Black Sea to Russia.

None of the artillery at the front is stored in warehouses at the front. If you
place the systems 20 meters apart then ONE HIMARS school graduate can
operate a dozen systems training others as they go.

You can't tell cruise missiles approximately where targets are. You need
precise coordinates. The HIMARS ARE self propelled and will probably move
after every barrage. The greedy Russian traitors would have to be ON the
missile crew to give away their position. You don't have to worry about
security in a foxhole from the people sharing the foxhole.

Storing HIMARS away from the front when they need them at the front is
pure looney tunes.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 15, 2022, 04:37:38 PM
There are 100 solutions to your dilemma(s). If the Ukrainians were too
stupid to send less than a hundred men to artillery/missile/HIMARS school
then they should give Eastern Ukraine and the Black Sea to Russia.

None of the artillery at the front is stored in warehouses at the front. If you
place the systems 20 meters apart then ONE HIMARS school graduate can
operate a dozen systems training others as they go.

You can't tell cruise missiles approximately where targets are. You need
precise coordinates. The HIMARS ARE self propelled and will probably move
after every barrage. The greedy Russian traitors would have to be ON the
missile crew to give away their position. You don't have to worry about
security in a foxhole from the people sharing the foxhole.

Storing HIMARS away from the front when they need them at the front is
pure looney tunes.


I'm not sure Ukraine can spare having a hundred Artillery men abroad for a couple of weeks learning how to use the HIMARS.they're probably all needed at the front with the Howitzers trying to keep the orc hordes at bay.


The USA has never been invaded and the UK hasn't in my lifetime,so we really cannot comprehend what they're going through..it's easy being an armchair warrior without missiles and cluster bombs flying everywhere.


As NATO said these people are having to be trained on how to use modern NATO equipment whilst trying to save their country at the same time.


This is NATO's fault for not doing this BEFORE the invasion...it's not as if we didn't see the orc hordes massing on the Ukraine borders for weeks before the invasion is it ?


The pro-Russian traitors are everywhere in Ukraine..Zelensky even had to have the Regional Commander of the Military in the Kharkiv region arrested for being a traitor.
I remember Zelensky saying the traitor had put no defences up for the region...nothing.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 15, 2022, 07:15:25 PM


The USA has never been invaded



Not True, US was invaded in War of 1812 by Britain. They even burned the Capitol!!!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 16, 2022, 03:36:27 AM

Not True, US was invaded in War of 1812 by Britain. They even burned the Capitol!!!!


Bit before my time  :)
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 16, 2022, 01:44:36 PM
The USA has never been invaded and the UK hasn't in my lifetime,so we really cannot comprehend what they're going through..it's easy being an armchair warrior without missiles and cluster bombs flying everywhere.

That's absolutely true, reading back what I wrote I appeared to be almost
cavalier about their situation.


This is NATO's fault for not doing this BEFORE the invasion...it's not as if we didn't see the orc hordes massing on the Ukraine borders for weeks before the invasion is it ?

It's the leaders. Joe Biden of the USA not a leader, Boris Johnson of the UK not
a leader. Emmanuel Macron of France, not a leader, Frank-Walter Steinmeier
not a leader.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 16, 2022, 02:55:32 PM
Steinmeier is president of Germany, which is largely a ceremonial role. The Chancellor is who holds real power.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 16, 2022, 03:55:20 PM
Steinmeier is president of Germany, which is largely a ceremonial role. The Chancellor is who holds real power.

Germany has been rudderless for years. Those that have done the
leading were totally incompetent. They make themselves totally
dependent on Russian gas and oil, then they shut down their
nuke program. Now they dip their toes in and out of the water worse
than a teenage girl trying to decide which dress to wear on a date.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 16, 2022, 06:57:15 PM
The Russians have a HEAVY influence over the German energy sector, as well as banking, German political competency is focused on the money that’s brought to German politicians from these industries

now under the “STRONG LEADER” YOU voted for…
the corruption came in the form of money laundering via multiple avenues, but especially banking and  real estate, which STRONG LEADER personally dealt with
Let’s not forget about the millions of Russian oligarch money given to GREAT LEADER’S inauguration, Google “trump parnas”
which he in turn paid directly to family owned companies
the family that's prohibited from running ANY charity in New York State, cuz they ripped off a children's cancer foundation (google it)

Deutsche Bank was fined BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, for laundering Russian money, google it!  it also happens to be great leader's biggest lender
German energy companies invested BILLIIONS in North Stream II, google it!
how much contributions to politicians, do you think THEY made?



the strong man of Europe gushed over by FOX NEWS "viktor Orban", was once a bagman for the head of the Russian mob semon mogilevitch google it

why did all the “STRONG” Republicans YOU FAVOR, the ones with close ties to great leader, vote against ANY aid to Ukraine?

Why does Tucker Carlson support Putin?

Why did the Republican Party COMPLETELY remove form the 2016 party platform, a provision for arming Ukraine (google it)

no mention of ANY of this from YOU BEEL EVER!, but if a box of bullets shows up in Ukraine an hour late, then Biden is the WORST LEADER WHO EVER LIVED!!

hmmm - why?

do YOU wanna answer this question first, or would you like ME to answer for you - cuz I know!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 16, 2022, 07:34:16 PM
http://archive.ph/BPAFr

Interesting article.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 17, 2022, 09:57:11 AM
It was ALWAYS very lucrative to be part of the FSB/GRU/SVR European logistics effort, which falls under Russian espionage…
being a Russian manager means you get to “skim” some off the top for “expenses”

here’s a list of Russian espionage efforts in Europa that have become public
IMAGINE what’s not public

Russians have MANY thousands of personnel involved in this
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 17, 2022, 11:00:56 AM
Well looks like Boris has played a blinder :) he's just jetted into Kyiv in a second historic visit to Ukraine and has pledged to train tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers up both new recruits and existing troops:

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-makes-second-surprise-visit-to-kyiv-12635686

This will help Ukraine out enormously to ensure they don't end up with an army of mostly troops that are too lacking in training to be of much use on the battlefield. The larger Ukraine can make its army with trained soldiers the more likely they'll be able to stand up to Russia's army over the long term and gain the upper hand.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 17, 2022, 02:41:50 PM
A large crowd formed in Kyiv to welcome him when news broke that Boris was back in town...the Ukrainians really do love him/the Brits.


It's noticeable how different Zelensky and his team are with him in contrast with other leaders who've visited Kyiv.


Zelensky is very business-like and formal with the other leaders ,but with Boris him and his team are clearly genuinely happy to see him.. with big smiles on their faces and they're very relaxed around him.


Boris gave a book about the Queen to Zelensky and then signed it at the Presidents request. :)


Surprising that Boris didn't tell the northern MP's and business leaders in Doncaster he wouldn't be turning up for the conference as he was going to Kyiv instead...or maybe he was concerned about potential leaks to the orcs about his trip ?


There has been a lot of dirty Russian money coming into the UK and particularly London for many years...so maybe our elite society/ruling classes need looking into for corruption and being money-laundering allies of Putler.


There has been a documentary about Putler on Sky called "Putin's obsession " and it suggested that Putler had been recruiting people in the top echelons of our society from when Blair was our PM.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 17, 2022, 04:24:58 PM
Extra! Extra!  Read all about it!!!

Topol M missiles, Russia has about 80 locked and loaded on Eww-Cry-Ena
some are MIRVed
some nukes have been converted to EMPs

here's a pic of Pootin on a recent factory tour where the Topols are made, there's one in the background
he got a presentation from the factory on the readiness and reliability
and a separate brifing on what would happen to Ukraine AFTER the first nuclear attack since Nagasiki
and how Pootin gave the General Staff no other option, it was either THIS or DEFEAT
and ain't nobody got time for defeat!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 17, 2022, 05:16:12 PM
Extra! Extra!  Read all about it!!!

Topol M missiles, Russia has about 80 locked and loaded on Eww-Cry-Ena
some are MIRVed
some nukes have been converted to EMPs

here's a pic of Pootin on a recent factory tour where the Topols are made, there's one in the background
he got a presentation from the factory on the readiness and reliability
and a separate brifing on what would happen to Ukraine AFTER the first nuclear attack since Nagasiki
and how Pootin gave the General Staff no other option, it was either THIS or DEFEAT
and ain't nobody got time for defeat!


It will be defeat for him either way.


Either he'll lose in Ukraine or Russia will become  a radioactive wasteland.


He's a dead man walking....but he may take a lot of us with him.


For a man who's terrified of dying...hence his pitiful fear of Covid....is he ready for the reckoning now ? >:D


Because like all bullies he's basically a coward.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on June 18, 2022, 02:55:04 AM
Germany has been rudderless for years. Those that have done the
leading were totally incompetent. They make themselves totally
dependent on Russian gas and oil, then they shut down their
nuke program. Now they dip their toes in and out of the water worse
than a teenage girl trying to decide which dress to wear on a date.
:ROFL: That's true
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2022, 11:51:59 AM
A large crowd formed in Kyiv to welcome him when news broke that Boris was back in town...the Ukrainians really do love him/the Brits.


It's noticeable how different Zelensky and his team are with him in contrast with other leaders who've visited Kyiv.


Zelensky is very business-like and formal with the other leaders ,but with Boris him and his team are clearly genuinely happy to see him.. with big smiles on their faces and they're very relaxed around him.


Boris gave a book about the Queen to Zelensky and then signed it at the Presidents request. :)


Surprising that Boris didn't tell the northern MP's and business leaders in Doncaster he wouldn't be turning up for the conference as he was going to Kyiv instead...or maybe he was concerned about potential leaks to the orcs about his trip ?


There has been a lot of dirty Russian money coming into the UK and particularly London for many years...so maybe our elite society/ruling classes need looking into for corruption and being money-laundering allies of Putler.


There has been a documentary about Putler on Sky called "Putin's obsession " and it suggested that Putler had been recruiting people in the top echelons of our society from when Blair was our PM.

I've noticed the same the two leaders and their staff seem to be naturally closer and at ease with one another, natural allies you might say. The UK was the first nation most willing to get involved and help the Ukrainians out and I think they appreciate that and know they can rely upon us. The EU haven't given as much and to be honest I can only see unhelpful postering from them, giving candidate status for EU membership they know won't ever come to accepted member for many years to come, if ever. I personally think Ukraine is barking at the wrong door bothering applying for EU membership. The EU at heart has little care for its members less so for countries outside the EU. Most of what the EU can give in terms of trade preference the EU has already given, the EU is now short on cash so can't give away money like they did to the like of Poland. All they'll likely get from the EU on joining is a lot of directives (being told what to do). I sense in the meetings Zelensky has had with EU officials that he is not particularly at ease and I don't sense it's a great relationship to start with that the EU is particularly going to do anything for Ukraine at any stage. I think Ukraine would be better off seeing what the UK can do for it, remain Independent and look to NATO membership. If Russia gets pushed out of Ukraine I think NATO would then be happy to move in and equip Ukrainian forces to NATO standards to warn off any future threat by Russia. The EU has never really got it together on the military front, it's mostly just a vague mutual military assistance agreement which there is not necessarily a guarantee of coming to fruition in any meaningful way. Anyway, great to see it working out so well between the UK and Ukraine I think :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2022, 12:13:45 PM
Extra! Extra!  Read all about it!!!

Topol M missiles, Russia has about 80 locked and loaded on Eww-Cry-Ena
some are MIRVed
some nukes have been converted to EMPs

here's a pic of Pootin on a recent factory tour where the Topols are made, there's one in the background
he got a presentation from the factory on the readiness and reliability
and a separate brifing on what would happen to Ukraine AFTER the first nuclear attack since Nagasiki
and how Pootin gave the General Staff no other option, it was either THIS or DEFEAT
and ain't nobody got time for defeat!

That's interesting info Krimster. I guess we always new that there were no certainties with how this Ukraine conflict ends up, that Russia facing a conventional armed defeat may move to more deadly unconventional missile strikes and/or chemical weapons.

Reading this article today:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a40232488/russia-throws-half-century-old-tanks-into-ukraine-invasion/

It basically informs us that at the moment it's a war of attrition with conventional weapons but that it's a war of a attrition that is has a quick level of attrition. Russia has a big load of tanks but most of them are museum pieces too old and rusted and broken down beyond repair. They've gone through most of their T-72's and are now down to any T-62's that still move. The T-62s they started to deploy around Kherson on the 5th June and many were easily taken out straight away. My guess is that Russia is seeing it as there is no pint in having tank crews without tanks so might as well use the tank crews up even if pretty futility than have them sat around useless without tanks - bad for them but they seem little more than target practice now and a slow up the enemy and use up a bit of their arsenal by Russia. Ukraine of course has been running low on armaments but more is coming in. So Russia perhaps hoping to overwhelm them in an attrition battle and win that way.

New weapons coming into Ukraine will of course mean that Ukraine will overcome it's attrition issue and win against Russia. As you say Russia losing is something that it's going to find very hard, probably too hard to take. As I've queried for a while now what will Russia do once it's conventional forces are spent, their tanks are out, their artillery soon likely to be destroyed with mobile long range missiles armaments we are giving Ukraine. That only leaves them to be pushed back and destroyed or use unconventional weapons.

So your info here suggests they might well just do that. I'm not sure whether they will affix nuclear warheads. The problem with nukes us not just radioactive fallout spreading far and wide as I understand it but also a lot of thermo nuclear activity can cause global warming and potentially make the planet unliveable if there is enough of it. Anyway I tend to agree with CB there's no way we can back down to this playground bully if he pulls these out otherwise he'll pull the same stunt over and over and we'll end up with a massive problem anyway. We're just going to have to sit tight and battle on and if he fires these just fight on anyway as far as possible nothing else to do really as I see it.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 18, 2022, 12:34:59 PM
always expect, the unexpected...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 18, 2022, 01:31:58 PM
always expect, the unexpected...


I agree,and the way Putler was talking during the week i'd say if he does use Nukes there is as much chance he'll use them on the USA as in Ukraine.


Prevailing winds in Ukraine would blow the radiation fallout into Russia for a start,and if any of the fallout blew into neighbouring countries like Poland or Romania that would constitute an attack on NATO triggering World War 3


The way he said that Russia is going to be THE World power now, and that the end of the USA is coming, suggests he may well attack the USA very soon and he knows he'd lose using conventional weapons,so WMD's would be the way to go.


His speech followed the member of Duma's comments, urging Russia to strike the USA, on Russian State TV  i posted here previously.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 18, 2022, 01:49:38 PM
Attacking the US would be a death knell for Russia.

Unlike Russia, I suspect the US maintains its nuclear arsenal. Its army is also more effective.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 18, 2022, 01:54:53 PM
Attacking the US would be a death knell for Russia.

Unlike Russia, I suspect the US maintains its nuclear arsenal. Its army is also more effective.


Any sane person knows that.


Unfortunately Putler is now clearly insane...or as Ben Wallace said "he's gone full tonto ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 18, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Remember that under Budapest . . . US, UK and France are obligated to do something if Ukraine attacked by nuclear.

Actually the only thing they are required to do is take the matter to the UN.  But I suspect that would lead to more very quickly.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2022, 03:30:35 PM
I think Russia has likely got a lot of problems in store, some of which goes back to what Krim said a while back that its revenue from oil & gas won't go on forever. Apart from any decline in reserves renewables and other forms of energy are starting to come in now as more viable alternatives. Oil & gas they can only get so much from and then the Oligarchs take the bulk of the profit for themselves and use a lit of it to invest abroad, the Russian people don't see a lit of benefit from that. So Russia was heading to a precarious state where greater poverty could have been on the horizon. That in turn breeds decline and a collapsing society. A collapsing society is of course not good for those at the top or anyone in Russia really.

The fact that Russia hasn't been able to replace their tanks with anything new since the fall of the USSR is quite telling. Basically they are not at all as powerful as the headline military stats that they put out. It looks very much like they are sitting on a military that was getting old and very backward and obsolete. To my mind it looks like they tried to have a stab at getting back their old territories of the Soviet era before their army lost its ability completely to mount an invasion against its neighbours. Basically Russia can't manage to mobilize or update an army anywhere near to the scale of the Soviet Union. It's basically using the armaments built up during Soviet times to try and regain territories that might help them regenerate it army and economy. That's proving to be a strategy that may turn out to be a bit of a grasp. It's old Soviet armaments are basically old rusted museum pieces for the most part and Russia has probably left it to the last minute, probably too late to make a successful take over of Ukraine.

All they really have left is the heavy missile strike to level cities with whatever they've got. That's basically a losers tactic as they won't likely get what they seek, resources, manufacturing base, crop yield. They get a wasteland as a alternative to losing completely. That Russia hasn't actually declared war on Ukraine but declared a peacekeeping mission I would say they would be better off calling it a day and declaring their 'peacekeeping' over.

I can't see things ending well in Russia either way, with their conventional army becoming increasingly disarmed and their military weakness becoming weak how long before the different regions of the Russian Federation chose to de-federate as their is little overall military to stop them just rusted out old tanks that can't move anywhere.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 18, 2022, 04:24:43 PM
I wish it were true what some here write about the various weaknesses of Russia.

But I really can't believe it.

Quite aside from Nukes, I think Russia has a formidable military.

Add to that the Russian group mindset of being able to withstand terrible pain and hardship (maybe even liking to have pain) . . .

So perhaps an over puffing up here of Ukraine prospects and an undercounting of Russian prospects.

I hope I am wrong regarding my above assessment.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on June 18, 2022, 04:49:26 PM
Report from Russia:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/high-casualties-russia-pulls-out-all-the-stops-to-find-fresh-troops-a-254bf9c2-c83b-4492-8dea-1f5cec53b03e
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 18, 2022, 05:55:18 PM
I wish it were true what some here write about the various weaknesses of Russia.

But I really can't believe it.

Quite aside from Nukes, I think Russia has a formidable military.

Add to that the Russian group mindset of being able to withstand terrible pain and hardship (maybe even liking to have pain) . . .

So perhaps an over puffing up here of Ukraine prospects and an undercounting of Russian prospects.

I hope I am wrong regarding my above assessment.

Were their military formidable, they’d be in Kyiv by now. Despite their brutal tactics, which disregard civilians completely, they’re still not ruling even 20% of the country.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 18, 2022, 08:06:01 PM
Were their military formidable, they’d be in Kyiv by now.

They easily could have been in Kyiv.  They were not beaten, they made a tactical decision to withdraw.

They could have also reduced Kyiv to ruins like Mariupol.

I believe they deliberately wanted to save Kyiv and they want to save Odesa so that those two would be intact as the capitals of two of the regions that Russia recently displayed in their 'new' map of the future Ukraine.

But if Ukraine leaders and the west keeps crowing about how Russia was beaten and forced to withdraw from outside of Kyiv . . . Russia might just come back and use long range artillery to destroy Kyiv out of spite, despite their desire to keep Kyiv intact.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 19, 2022, 02:28:37 AM
There are 100 solutions to your dilemma(s). If the Ukrainians were too
stupid to send less than a hundred men to artillery/missile/HIMARS school
then they should give Eastern Ukraine and the Black Sea to Russia.

Have you considered the capacity of the firing range where they will be trained?  I'd say managing and training X crews at one time, not only with targeting and firing but maintenance and support as well is a pretty serious undertaking.  Where did you hear there would only be 100 men trained?  How big is a HIMARS crew?  How many men will be involved in the support of these 6 million buck systems?

Quote
None of the artillery at the front is stored in warehouses at the front. If you
place the systems 20 meters apart
then ONE HIMARS school graduate can
operate a dozen systems training others as they go.

You can't tell cruise missiles approximately where targets are. You need
precise coordinates. The HIMARS ARE self propelled and will probably move
after every barrage.
The greedy Russian traitors would have to be ON the
missile crew to give away their position. You don't have to worry about
security in a foxhole from the people sharing the foxhole.

Aside from contradicting yourself, ever hear of drones?  Russia has no reconnaissance assets?  Sure, single moving units would be hard to spot, but your 20 lined up in a row would present a huge target, at risk of wiping them all out at one time.

Quote
Storing HIMARS away from the front when they need them at the front is
pure looney tunes.

Sure, but rearming these moving units will be a logistics challenge considering that most of the 600 to 1000-mile resupply pipeline which under current circumstances represents a 3-4 day trip, has to be hidden, akin to smuggling.  Let's say a commercial truck can transport reload packages right next to the unit.  They will need a forklift to get them safely off the truck to the ground to be reloaded.  I highly doubt they can be loaded direct truck to firing unit. Commercial trucks are too high, and can't navigate farm fields and rough terrain. Sure don't want to be dropping thousands of pounds of solid propellant and HE or?  How many of these vehicles will be needed to supply a half dozen HIMARS that can fire their load in one minute?

(http://www.armedconflicts.com/attachments/2/original__4_.jpg)

I think you are vastly underestimating the challenges involved 2tall.

A number of inland storage depots will be needed.  The closer these depots are to the front, the more vulnerable they are to detection and destruction.

US and other countries are sending numbers of units that can be effectively managed and supplied.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 19, 2022, 02:45:05 AM
Were their military formidable, they’d be in Kyiv by now.

Indeed.  If the goal was only Donbas, they may well have taken it by now.  Instead, they wasted their resources.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 19, 2022, 03:21:52 AM
I wish it were true what some here write about the various weaknesses of Russia.

But I really can't believe it.
Now now, with such language you'll be branded an 'orc'.

US 30-year fixed mortgage interest rates are now above 6%, while Russia's central bank just cut interest rates below pre-invasion levels. RUB is strongest against the USD since 2018. Russia is posting massive surpluses and apparently raising military spending by 20%. How big is the USA deficit these days?

Things are even worse in Europe, no wonder Bojo the Clown loves going to Kyiv. Any reason to escape the impending malaise in the UK. The misery index there is the highest in decades. Russia is pounding the West economically, or more appropriate the West is pounding the West economically. The writing is on the wall. Western governments need to make a u-turn out of Ukraine to save their own imploding economies.

Wars are expensive. Guess who is in a position to finance one?

Listening to Putin speak in StP it's clear he's in empire mode. He's thinking in terms of decades not months. This is not Putin cheerleading, it's simply reading the tea leaves... and have a lovely pride month. Somebody's been watching Pat's dating Ukraine channel.  :P

(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Macron-and-Zelensky-1626818.jpg)

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 19, 2022, 07:41:57 AM
Now now, with such language you'll be branded an 'orc'.

I doubt it.

Quote
US 30-year fixed mortgage interest rates are now above 6%, while Russia's central bank just cut interest rates below pre-invasion levels. RUB is strongest against the USD since 2018. Russia is posting massive surpluses and apparently raising military spending by 20%. How big is the USA deficit these days?

Little, to do with the RU/UA situation.  Just a bit of gas on the fire already started by throwing free money into the economy for too long.  Unemployment, the largest misery factor is at historic lows in EU, US and UK.  As long as folks can buy needed essentials we'll get through this.  Of course, the defense industry is booming. 

Find anyone that will give you USD for Rubles? Let me know as I have some change left over from a prior trip.

The ONLY thing keeping RU afloat and providing fiscal surpluses is its natural resources created millions of years ago are still in demand and not due to being smarter or better than the next man. Chew on that dino bone for a bit. As for trade surpluses, well if there is little or no trade also an artificial value.

Quote
Things are even worse in Europe, no wonder Bojo the Clown loves going to Kyiv. Any reason to escape the impending malaise in the UK. The misery index there is the highest in decades. Russia is pounding the West economically, or more appropriate the West is pounding the West economically. The writing is on the wall. Western governments need to make a u-turn out of Ukraine to save their own imploding economies.

Sure, some hardships have resulted but no one I know is blaming UA.

Quote
Wars are expensive. Guess who is in a position to finance one?

Good causes should be supported.  The west is gaining a great deal of knowledge that will help ensure RU can never try such stunts with NATO/EU countries and expect to win.  To put monetary value into perspective, the west spent 10 billion on a space telescope to probe the beginning of time and space.  50 billion or more on fusion technology.

Quote
Listening to Putin speak in StP it's clear he's in empire mode. He's thinking in terms of decades not months. This is not Putin cheerleading, it's simply reading the tea leaves... and have a lovely pride month. Somebody's been watching Pat's dating Ukraine channel.  :P

The world will re-align more forcefully towards other energy sources.  If anything should be a net win for Mother Earth.  As far as fuel for mobility, I'd still enjoy paying US prices.  Much of the value of oil and gas is based on speculation anyway.  Oil companies are reaping windfall profits and governments as well with higher tax revenue.

Putin's power relies on RU people believing his lies.  From recent history, we know lies have short legs. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 19, 2022, 08:37:42 AM
Rwd123,

why be a
Russian sock puppet, when instead you coulda gone LONG on petroleum futures during the first covid peak, and used all the margins your broker was willing to extend and BUY, BUY at it’s lowest point

you know why you didn’t
cuz your ancestors got caught picking people’s pockets near picadilly and were sent to a penal colony
to shear sheep

that’s WHY!!!

my ancestors were WAY TO SMART to get caught, so we got to choose to live where we wanted to

clearly, one too many Foster’s for you me cobber!
You must be one LONELY DINGO out there in the outback
no sheilas for ye arghhhhh!!!
cuz YANKS GET ALL THE UKRAINIAN POOTY-TANG!!!
and that just leaves all you WALTZING MATILDAS SOL!!!

LOL, and on top of that, your toilettes all flush in the WRONG direction!!!
no wonder you're so messed up
you do EVERYTHING this way and then wonder why your life is so FOOKED UP!!!
ain't gonna be a Ukrainian sheila who has time for you!
sad...



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 19, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Now now, with such language you'll be branded an 'orc'.

That would be a pretty silly branding as I am a strong supporter of Ukraine.
And interestingly, in our group of Ukraine families here in our university town, I am viewed by the Ukrainians as the most extreme supporter.  I have voiced idea of rounding up the Russians here and doing . . .

However support for Ukraine serves no  purpose when it involves blowing smoke up each other's ______ by repeating silliness about Russian weaknesses.

As I said, Russia could have (and still can) reduced Kyiv to rubble like they did in Mariupol if Putin really wanted to.

Now it's true that as time marches on and available Russian troops and equipment become more depleted (and if supplies are sent to Ukraine in ever increasing amounts), then I believe that Russia really will be weakened and Ukraine can prevail.

So very critical is time as always.  How much time will elapse before our supplies to Ukraine overwhelms the supplies and troops available to Putin.

Can the Ukraine military last the required time waiting period ??

And for wife and me:  Will her closest relative survive that long ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2022, 11:20:13 AM
I wish it were true what some here write about the various weaknesses of Russia.

But I really can't believe it.

Quite aside from Nukes, I think Russia has a formidable military.

Add to that the Russian group mindset of being able to withstand terrible pain and hardship (maybe even liking to have pain) . . .

So perhaps an over puffing up here of Ukraine prospects and an undercounting of Russian prospects.

I hope I am wrong regarding my above assessment.

I think your assessment is probably correct were it still the 1980s ML. A lot has changed since then, I'm sure back in your Navy days Soviet MIG's flying around buzzing the US F-15's were all the rage and the then new Soviet SU fighter jets to be feared. The present conflict must really remind you of those days I guess since the Russians are dragging out all that old gear from way back. It's kind of like sound a do-over of those times with the same equipment by way passed its time.

I don't think the Russians are going to bother with their tanks a whole lot now, I think the recent move is just a case of using up old tanks that still move and tank crews who are without a tank, it's kind of callous of Russia to do that but they seem to operate that way in war. The Javlin & NLAW missiles tend to go up in the air and strike down to the top of the tank turret. The M-62 tanks are particularly weak there and basically extremely few to none of those tank crew that jump in those tanks stand any chance of survival. Literally them getting in one of those tanks is a death sentence that will likely quickly come about.

Russia's only conventional hope is it's artillery but with the west giving Ukraine longer range artillery, mobile long range missile units and the like their going to get pounded too soon.

I think Krim is right Russia is likely to use ballistic missiles, whether they are nuclear who knows. I said at the start that I wouldn't be surprised if Russia targeted Ukraine's troops with hyper thermal barbic missiles to take them out in one go along with any city they are sheltering in. I'm kind of surprised they didn't do that to begin with. Now it's looking like they may be moving to that. It's bad news of course for any residents remaining in front line cities as if they don't leave before missile strike they are unfortunately likely to be taken by it also. I can't help but wonder if our intervention as well meaning as it was might just end up making things worse out there and have made the situation a whole lot more deadly for Ukrainians.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 19, 2022, 11:46:44 AM
I said at the start that I wouldn't be surprised if Russia targeted Ukraine's troops with hyper thermal barbic missiles to take them out in one go along with any city they are sheltering in. I'm kind of surprised they didn't do that to begin with.

Trench they cost too much. The old Soviet munitions work just fine
for destroying cities and killing women and children. No need to use
cutting edge tech for a medieval job.

Pentagon says hypersonic weapons are too expensive
The Pentagon wants defense contractors to cut the ultimate cost of hypersonic
weapons, the head of research and development said on Tuesday, as the next generation of super-fast missiles being developed currently cost tens of millions
per unit.

http://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/pentagon-says-hypersonic-weapons-are-too-expensive-2021-10-12/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 19, 2022, 11:50:52 AM
As I said, Russia could have (and still can) reduced Kyiv to rubble like they did in Mariupol if Putin really wanted to.

Good point. I take it Putin thought he could waltz in with a warm welcome, and maybe yes, decided resistance was too great without causing huge damage to the city (as has now been the case in other cities)

Also, whatever forces and equipment were left in the north, were needed in the south to make progress where little progress was being made.

"Can't have the cake and eat it too.." comes to mind.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 19, 2022, 12:39:25 PM
So very critical is time as always.  How much time will elapse before our
supplies to Ukraine overwhelms the supplies and troops available to Putin.

Can the Ukraine military last the required time waiting period ??

I don't think that the USA and the rest of the West have any intention
of giving Ukraine what they need to win. Look at the track history so
far. No MIG's or long range rockets (or equally bad only 4 of them).

I think they worry too much about what happens if Russia loses and
the instability that could cause
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 19, 2022, 02:34:13 PM
I don't think that the USA and the rest of the West have any intention
of giving Ukraine what they need to win. Look at the track history so
far. No MIG's or long range rockets (or equally bad only 4 of them).

I think they worry too much about what happens if Russia loses and
the instability that could cause


The west is giving Ukraine 10 long range rocket systems to start with..not 4.


4 from the USA.


3 from the UK.


3 from Germany.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 20, 2022, 07:40:22 AM
I was just thinking about how this war affects the Ukrainian Military on a personal level.


From being just another face in the crowd leading a humdrum life ...you've now become a hero to millions of people around the World.


I see Ukrainian Flags everywhere as i drive around in my town.


You can post a selfie video on social media just sitting on top of a military vehicle dressed in your combat gear with an AK-47 or anti-tank weapon in your arms and millions of guys will be cheering you on and millions of women will be swooning over you.


This isn't just another war..this really is a war about holding-back and hopefully defeating the forces of evil.


There really hasn't been anything like this since the second world war..and social media really has brought it into everyone's homes.


Looking at the heroes faces there is no doubt or fear in their eyes..just the strength of conviction that what they're doing is very important and worthwhile and they want to share it with the world.


Some of them are even doing dance moves in the middle of war zones. :)


For many they will have finally found a real purpose in their lives..and if it's their day to die then they will do so knowing it was for a good cause.


As some have already said "It's the best job in the World...trashing Russians ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 08:57:42 AM
I think you are vastly underestimating the challenges involved 2tall.

I think you want to protect team Biden and their vast incompetence from
scrutiny.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 20, 2022, 09:09:00 AM
2tall,

No, I've worked in the logistics field for over 30 years.  Biden did not even come to mind when replying to your posts.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 09:15:16 AM
Ukraine-Russia war: US, West delay in delivering weapons gives Putin edge
in Donbas region

"It seems the right weapons are just not getting there in time, and turning what
could have been a clear victory for Ukraine into a Russian advantage - a fumble
on the 10-yard line by the West," the official said.

"Germany, which initially delayed the delivery of lethal aid to Ukraine until two months into the invasion, has lagged significantly behind Ukraine’s other allies in delivering any of its aid: Data from German think tank The Kiel Institute indicates Germany lags behind most allies, both in terms of the amount of aid promised and the amount actually delivered – amounting to roughly 35% of its total commitment. "

That indecision and divisiveness in target and commitment is something that Russia will look to exploit as it presses its advantage to secure the Donbas region while the Ukrainians fight with depleting resources and inferior weapons.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-russia-war-delay-weapons-putin-donbas


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 09:20:33 AM
2tall,

No, I've worked in the logistics field for over 30 years.  Biden did not even come to mind when replying to your posts.

That should have come to your mind first.

The US military has the most advanced logistical operations in the world.
Only under Team Biden have they become incompetent.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 09:29:29 AM
Zelenskyy says arms urgently needed as Russian supply dwindles
"We keep telling our partners that Ukraine needs modern anti-missile weapons.
Our country does not have [them] at a sufficient level yet, but it is our country
in Europe that needs such weapons most right now," he said.
"Delay with its provision cannot be justified."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-arms-needed-russian-supply-nato-aid
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 20, 2022, 09:46:05 AM
"http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-arms-needed-russian-supply-nato-aid"

LOL!!! I'd recommend getting your informatze straight from Russia Today or Sputnick, before it gets filtered by Fox News (LOL)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 10:04:12 AM
"http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-arms-needed-russian-supply-nato-aid"

LOL!!! I'd recommend getting your informatze straight from Russia Today or Sputnick, before it gets filtered by Fox News (LOL)


I have posted news links from a wide variety of sources.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 20, 2022, 10:10:41 AM
That should have come to your mind first.

Why should Biden come to mind first?  I'm sure he has the best military advisors available.

Quote
The US military has the most advanced logistical operations in the world.
Only under Team Biden have they become incompetent.

Yes, they are good, but in this case only up to the UA border and not one inch further.  Any equipment handed over has another treacherous 600-1000 or more Km to go.

As far as I can see, nothing has changed at US TransCom since Biden took office.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 20, 2022, 12:13:51 PM
I'm not sure if the orcs are running out of Pilots or not,but have you all seen the state of their captured fighter pilots ?


They're all over fifty and overweight.


Tom Cruise they ain't. ;D


I know Putler is now recruiting up to 65 years old for his orc military,he's getting so desperate..but seriously grandad fighter pilots ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 01:18:37 PM
Why should Biden come to mind first?  I'm sure he has the best military advisors available.

He has bungled 100% of every foreign policy decision in his life.
If he has competent military advisors he ignores them, proof
is the Afghanistan debacle.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 01:22:22 PM
I saw this at the other place first.

When The Lies Come Home
Kiev’s war with Moscow is lost. Ukrainian forces are being bled white. Trained replacements do not exist in sufficient numbers to influence the battle, and the situation grows more desperate by the hour. No amount of U.S. and allied military aid or assistance short of direct military intervention by U.S. and NATO ground forces can change this harsh reality.

The problem today is not ceding territory and population to Moscow in Eastern Ukraine that Moscow already controls. The future of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions along with the Donbas is decided. Moscow is also likely to secure Kharkov and Odessa, two cities that are historically Russian and Russian-speaking, as well as the territory that adjoins them. These operations will extend the conflict through the summer. The problem now is how to stop the fighting.

Whether the fighting stops in the early fall will depend on two key factors.

The first involves the leadership in Kiev. Will the Zelensky government consent
to the Biden program for perpetual conflict with Russia?

If the Biden administration has its way, Kiev will continue to operate as a base
for the buildup of new forces poised to threaten Moscow. In practice, this means
Kiev must commit national suicide by exposing the Ukrainian heartland west of
the Dnieper River to massive, devastating strikes by Russia’s long-range missile
and rocket forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 01:29:48 PM
What the West Has Given Is Not Enough to Win, Ukraine Says
RATISLAVA, Slovakia – The amounts and types of weapons the United
States and other NATO members are sending to Ukraine are not enough
to eject Russian armed forces and win the war, Ukraine’s defense minister
said.

“We need more,” Oleksii Reznikov said Friday, to mount a “sufficient counterattack and kick them outside of our country to liberate all occupied territory.”

Reznikov’s grim assessment comes just three days after President Joe Biden
announced a new $700 million arms package for Ukraine that includes
long-requested High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS,
although with only limited-range rockets and a promise from Kyiv
to not strike targets inside of Russia.

His call for more advanced Western arms was echoed this week at a key
international security conference by several Central and Eastern European
leaders who rejected hopes for a near-term end to the war.

Reznikov said recent donations of artillery, radar, and electronic warfare gear
are helping Ukraine to defend its territory west of the Donbas region, slowing
Russia’s advances. But they are not enough to expel Russian forces or to deter
future strikes on Europe.

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/06/what-west-has-given-not-enough-win-ukraine-says/367740/


Does the West Want Ukraine to Win or Not?
The last time we heard U.S. officials use that word was to describe the war in Afghanistan. The United States didn’t win that war, and it looks like Ukraine
isn’t going to win this one—at least, not with the weapons the world is
allowing them to have.

It is true that Ukraine has stymied Russia’s attacks from the north, that shelling
has ceased in Kharkiv for the first time since the war began, and that even the consolidated effort to seize the Donbas is proceeding slowly. But take those
little victories with caution: Russia still has the ability to send in many more
waves of troops and ground power, as long as the Kremlin and the generals
desire. 

Ukrainians are fighting to win, but it’s clear the world will give them only
enough weapons to hold the line—a line largely dictated by the Kremlin’s
will—and hope for a negotiated peace with accused war criminal Vladimir
Putin. If the United States and its allies want a total victory for Ukraine,
they will have to give much more. Otherwise it increasingly looks like
Ukraine will have to sacrifice the Donbas region. And if that’s the case,
why keep fighting at all?

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2022/05/does-west-want-ukraine-win-or-not/366820/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 20, 2022, 02:20:09 PM
I saw this at the other place first.

When The Lies Come Home
Kiev’s war with Moscow is lost. Ukrainian forces are being bled white. Trained replacements do not exist in sufficient numbers to influence the battle, and the situation grows more desperate by the hour. No amount of U.S. and allied military aid or assistance short of direct military intervention by U.S. and NATO ground forces can change this harsh reality.

The problem today is not ceding territory and population to Moscow in Eastern Ukraine that Moscow already controls. The future of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions along with the Donbas is decided. Moscow is also likely to secure Kharkov and Odessa, two cities that are historically Russian and Russian-speaking, as well as the territory that adjoins them. These operations will extend the conflict through the summer. The problem now is how to stop the fighting.

Whether the fighting stops in the early fall will depend on two key factors.

The first involves the leadership in Kiev. Will the Zelensky government consent
to the Biden program for perpetual conflict with Russia?

If the Biden administration has its way, Kiev will continue to operate as a base
for the buildup of new forces poised to threaten Moscow. In practice, this means
Kiev must commit national suicide by exposing the Ukrainian heartland west of
the Dnieper River to massive, devastating strikes by Russia’s long-range missile
and rocket forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home (http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home)


Zerohedge is a known for its pro Russian perspectives.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 20, 2022, 03:09:02 PM
At the start of the Biden administration, there were 2,500 US soldiers in Afghanistan
Trump is the one who signed the agreement to withdraw, and made minimum efforts towards Afghan security  while in office
such a small number of American troops were vulnerable to a Taliban offensive which happened a little over 3 months after Biden took office
during the transistion period of November to Jan, Trump blocked Biden from receiving ANY briefings, depriving his team of info

but sure go ahead and blame Biden, cuz Fox News said so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Afghanistan_(2020%E2%80%932021)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 20, 2022, 03:15:02 PM
They easily could have been in Kyiv.  They were not beaten, they made a tactical decision to withdraw.


They made a decison when they could not capture the capital.

Quote
They could have also reduced Kyiv to ruins like Mariupol.


Kyiv is not Mariupol.  It contains the third most important monastary in Russian Orthodoxy.  It contains the most ancient Russian Orthodox cathedral in the world.  Sure, Russia could level Kyiv and its three million residents, but what would Russia achieve with that?  Are ill educated Buryats or Chechens going to move there and rebuild Kyiv into a great Russian city?

Quote
I believe they deliberately wanted to save Kyiv and they want to save Odesa so that those two would be intact as the capitals of two of the regions that Russia recently displayed in their 'new' map of the future Ukraine.


Yes, however, they miscalculated in assuming the residents of those two cities want them there.  They do not.

Quote
But if Ukraine leaders and the west keeps crowing about how Russia was beaten and forced to withdraw from outside of Kyiv . . . Russia might just come back and use long range artillery to destroy Kyiv out of spite, despite their desire to keep Kyiv intact.


What would they achieve with such a tactic?  They would be a pariah state for at least a generation.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 20, 2022, 03:26:07 PM
They would be a pariah state for at least a generation.

I presume (and hope) this is already the case.

But the Russian people simply do not care about such designations.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 20, 2022, 04:20:38 PM
this is how you make the "iron curtain" once again, Homo Sovieticus 2.0
we're just at the beginning of what's coming down the road folks
just the beginning...
it's why I took the exit

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 20, 2022, 05:09:51 PM
I saw this at the other place first.

When The Lies Come Home
Kiev’s war with Moscow is lost. Ukrainian forces are being bled white. Trained replacements do not exist in sufficient numbers to influence the battle, and the situation grows more desperate by the hour. No amount of U.S. and allied military aid or assistance short of direct military intervention by U.S. and NATO ground forces can change this harsh reality.

The problem today is not ceding territory and population to Moscow in Eastern Ukraine that Moscow already controls. The future of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions along with the Donbas is decided. Moscow is also likely to secure Kharkov and Odessa, two cities that are historically Russian and Russian-speaking, as well as the territory that adjoins them. These operations will extend the conflict through the summer. The problem now is how to stop the fighting.

Whether the fighting stops in the early fall will depend on two key factors.

The first involves the leadership in Kiev. Will the Zelensky government consent
to the Biden program for perpetual conflict with Russia?

If the Biden administration has its way, Kiev will continue to operate as a base
for the buildup of new forces poised to threaten Moscow. In practice, this means
Kiev must commit national suicide by exposing the Ukrainian heartland west of
the Dnieper River to massive, devastating strikes by Russia’s long-range missile
and rocket forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home (http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home)


Bill,


     Why on Earth are you posting on here pro-Russian propaganda  links from the other place which is infested with unintelligent Putler/Russian fanboys who are gullible enough to believe such garbage ?


If Ukraine has run out of weapons they somehow managed to hit Snake Island again today and also hit an oil rig off Crimea which originally belonged to Ukraine according to Russian sources.


As for Kherson the Ukraine Deputy PM today advised the residents of Kherson to evacuate the city ahead of the coming Ukraine counter-offensive.


You didn't know this ?


Then i suggest you catch up on the real news instead of reading the tripe in that pro-Russian place.


You did realize the Ukrainian troops are now only 10 km from the city having smashed through the first line of the orcs defenses ?


The orcs are now desperately forming second and third lines of defense to try and save themselves,which they may possibly succeed in doing because as you know war is unpredictable.


Even Igor Girkin felt compelled to post a video of Russian troops surrendering en-masse in the Luhansk region...they were in a very bad way too,with their comrades dead bodies lying around.


So..who's bleeding white now ?



I did say i wouldn't post my info on here anymore,but the garbage link you posted on here needs to be put in it's place.


When the lies come home indeed.









Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 05:38:02 PM
At the start of the Biden administration, there were 2,500 US soldiers in Afghanistan
Trump is the one who signed the agreement to withdraw, and made minimum efforts towards Afghan security  while in office
such a small number of American troops were vulnerable to a Taliban offensive which happened a little over 3 months after Biden took office
during the transistion period of November to Jan, Trump blocked Biden from receiving ANY briefings, depriving his team of info

but sure go ahead and blame Biden, cuz Fox News said so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Afghanistan_(2020%E2%80%932021)

Sure go ahead and excuse Biden because the Washington Post told you to.

Biden f#cked up leaving Afghanistan. He left Americans behind and allies were
killed. He should have removed the Americans and their families first and the
military last. The New York Times and Team Biden said "it was either that or spend
another 30 years in Afghanistan."

That is a false dilemma fallacy, I learned as a school boy reading Toulmin's model
of argumentation. Very little of my information comes from Fox News. They aren't
even part of my cable package.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2022, 05:46:41 PM

Bill,
     Why on Earth are you posting on here pro-Russian propaganda  links from the other place which is infested with unintelligent Putler/Russian fanboys who are gullible enough to believe such garbage ?

If Ukraine has run out of weapons they somehow managed to hit Snake Island again today and also hit an oil rig off Crimea which originally belonged to Ukraine according to Russian sources.


As for Kherson the Ukraine Deputy PM today advised the residents of Kherson to evacuate the city ahead of the coming Ukraine counter-offensive.


You didn't know this ?


Then i suggest you catch up on the real news instead of reading the tripe in that pro-Russian place.


You did realize the Ukrainian troops are now only 10 km from the city having smashed through the first line of the orcs defenses ?

When the lies come home indeed.

I didn't get this link from the usual cabal. It was from a guy who talks
more about red pills/white knights and has the best nicknames for
commies on the entire internet.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 20, 2022, 06:11:15 PM
I didn't get this link from the usual cabal. It was from a guy who talks
more about red pills/white knights and has the best nicknames for
commies on the entire internet.


Ahhhh i know who you mean,and yeah he's ok  :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 20, 2022, 07:40:04 PM
Article about the workers at the nuclear power plant in Zaporizhia, now in Russian control.

http://archive.ph/kCimk
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2022, 01:38:20 AM

I see Ukrainian Flags everywhere as i drive around in my town.


Yeah, I see so many Ukrainian flags when driving around its feels literally like I'm living in Ukraine lol.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2022, 02:09:27 AM
I didn't get this link from the usual cabal. It was from a guy who talks
more about red pills/white knights and has the best nicknames for
commies on the entire internet.

I too am dubious about Ukraine's situation, they don't tend to put out official figures for troop losses much if at all. Russia we tend to get the troop loss figures one way or another from various sources and I think jointly a pretty clear figure of troop losses gets validated enough, currently around 33,000 Russian troop losses as I understand it, but even this may be higher possibly. Ukraine I think has potentially lost a lot as well but they keep quiet to maintain morale. There's no telling if the losses are bear as much or more as the war takes its toll. My impression is that Ukraine's forces could be suffering somewhat at the moment.

I think Ukraine did well around Kyiv and Kharkiv but particularly around Kyiv. Russia's problem was there that their flanks were not protected and Ukraines forces could ambush them around the sides. The problem of being strung out along a long road made the situation even more difficult for Russia. So Russia getting it's artillery up in sufficient quantity was a major problem I think. Then add to that all the rivers around Kyiv made Kyiv strategically difficult to break into. Russia's forces never did get to completely encircle the city.

I think Russia's strategy at the moment is get everything they've got left in terms of conventional military and continue to try to overwhelm Ukraine in the Donbas and hope they can push through and break Ukraine before too much new modern weaponry arrives. I think Boris pledging to train Ukrainian forces likely supports the post you made that Ukraine is running out of trained troops. That said I think the same is true on the Russian side since they are trying to pull anything from anywhere so I reckon there probably more in dire straits as they've only got so much longer and then they run out of weapons, troops and momentum. It looks like Russia is relying on its heavy artillery to do a lot of the work but that is likely only to last so long before western armaments take it out or they run out of munitions.

Overall I would say Ukraine is likely to be able to hold on so long as they don't suddenly break but I think Russia is on its last roll of the dice so far as conventional attack goes and its getting down to using more and more outdated gear and older and less well trained recruits. For Ukraine I think it's just a case of hold on a bit longer before Russia exhausts itself then it's only a matter of time before they push Russia back.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 21, 2022, 03:08:45 AM
Given the chance, Russia will occupy Donbas, declare a win, entrench and pass the time rearming to try again and again to expand until something breaks, either the will of UA or the will of the Russian people.  Armed by the west, UA can keep up the pressure and take back what they can, but it will be a costly, prolonged war in human terms.

Politically speaking, at this point, Russia has very little, if anything to lose, thus any attempts to negotiate are likely doomed to failure.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 21, 2022, 07:25:28 AM
German Panzerhaubitze 2000 155 mm Howitzers have finally arrived in Ukraine.


12 of them,including some from the Netherlands.


This news comes from Ukrainian Government official Oleksii Reznikov.


Good timing actually because Ukraine has just had two Western supplied  M777 155mm towed Howitzers destroyed by an orc air-strike whilst operating 12km from the front line and targeting orc logistics behind the front line.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2022, 07:27:53 AM
Given the chance, Russia will occupy Donbas, declare a win, entrench and pass the time rearming to try again and again to expand until something breaks, either the will of UA or the will of the Russian people.  Armed by the west, UA can keep up the pressure and take back what they can, but it will be a costly, prolonged war in human terms.

Politically speaking, at this point, Russia has very little, if anything to lose, thus any attempts to negotiate are likely doomed to failure.

Rearm with what? Russia is essentially using up its armaments. I'm doubtful that they will be able to rearm at least any tie soon. It takes time to design, test and manufacture armaments, it's not something you do tommorow. That Russia has stuck with its old stock is telling to me that they are lacking on the ability to churn out armaments. My only other thought would be if they could buy armaments of another country such as China, India, etc but they would still need to await delivery to the front and train their troops up in it. At the moment the whole run down army of Russia appears to be getting even more run down. I think they hoped on a quick victory, take over Ukraine's resources and manufacturing base and build its army up with that. Looks like they might not just make it to me.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 21, 2022, 08:57:59 AM
Big explosions in Donetsk,Kievskiy district today as Ukrainian forces hit a Russian ammo depot.


There have been 12 big explosions in Donetsk and it's suburbs in the last half a week ,as Ukrainian forces start to pummel the gangsters of the so-called DPR.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 21, 2022, 09:38:21 AM
Rearm with what? Russia is essentially using up its armaments. I'm doubtful that they will be able to rearm at least any tie soon. It takes time to design, test and manufacture armaments, it's not something you do tommorow.

Quote
The defense industry of Russia is a strategically important sector and a large employer in Russia.[1] It is also a significant player in the global arms market, with Russian Federation being the second largest conventional arms exporter after the United States, with $13.5 billion worth of exports in 2012.[2] Combined, the US and Russia account for 57% of all major weapons exports.[3]

source: wikipedia.org

Really think they gonna just run out?  Sure, their exports will dwindle due to 'domestic use', but otherwise I doubt the factories have shuttered their doors.
Title: Views of Garry Kasparov
Post by: ML on June 21, 2022, 03:04:09 PM
Awakened to Putin’s Threat, Biden and the West Nod Off Again
By Garry Kasparov (Russian former Chess Champion) June 17, 2022

Earlier this month President Biden addressed the nation. Rather than do so from behind the Resolute Desk, he went on “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” In a 23-minute interview, Russia’s war on Ukraine wasn’t mentioned once. With domestic issues such as inflation, the Jan. 6 hearings, abortion and gun control on the president’s plate, the war in Ukraine may seem less of a priority. But it isn’t. Providing Ukraine with everything it needs to fight the Russians is the right—and popular—thing to do.

Yet Mr. Biden seems as if he’d rather pass the buck than act. During remarks at a Democratic fundraiser two days after the Kimmel interview, he said that President Volodymyr Zelensky “didn’t want to hear it” when warned about Russia’s imminent invasion. The Ukrainians deny this, but even if it were true, what of the U.S. ignoring its own warnings? No sanctions or aid was deployed to deter Mr. Putin’s invasion. Mr. Zelensky was surely skeptical that any U.S. support would be forthcoming after the fighting started.

Now we know the high cost of that failure to act—the slaughter, destruction and war crimes in Ukraine, and the food and fuel crises around the world. Instead of working to contain Mr. Putin in the eight years since he first invaded Ukraine, instead of insulating themselves against blackmail by becoming less dependent on Russian exports, American and European governments kicked the can down the road.

They also kept the door open to Mr. Putin, giving him confidence along with the hundreds of billions of dollars in oil and gas revenues he used to arm his war machine. Mr. Biden had a summit and several calls with Mr. Putin, and for what? Mr. Putin has stayed in power for 22 years by ignoring what weak Western leaders say and watching what they do. He took note as U.S. intelligence correctly predicted his long-planned invasion but did nothing to stop it. He watched as the first U.S. offer of help to Ukraine was to evacuate Mr. Zelensky under the assumption that Kyiv would fall within hours. Ukrainian courage and skill proved that assumption wrong.

Mr. Biden may be besieged politically, but Mr. Zelensky is besieged literally, as Ukraine suffers great loss of life in its defense of the eastern Donbas region. The only way to end the war is by helping Ukraine regain its territory and sovereignty and destroying Mr. Putin’s war machine. Anything less would allow Russia to consolidate and rearm, while Ukrainians under occupation suffer.

Mr. Putin made his intentions clear in a televised appearance on June 9, birthday of Peter the Great. Like Peter, Mr. Putin said he plans to “reclaim” lost lands. Unlike Peter, who modernized Russia and brought it closer to Europe, Mr. Putin is isolating Russia and moving it into a dark age. While dictators usually lie about everything they do, they are often candid about what they would like to do. Mr. Putin has long talked about rebuilding his beloved Soviet Empire. This week’s St. Petersburg International Economic Forum featured the presentation of a map of “former Ukraine,” from Kyiv to Odessa. Colonialism is not a Western European invention, despite what some progressives seem to think.

The escalation Mr. Biden and other Western leaders say they fear if they take stronger action to support Ukraine is guaranteed by their caution. Ukraine is the frontline now, but if Mr. Putin succeeds, he won’t stop there. A direct confrontation with North Atlantic Treaty Organization forces will become inevitable. If the goal is Ukrainian victory, the White House must say so clearly and everything Ukraine needs must be sent now.

During World War II, the American lend-lease program delivered millions of tons of materiel to the Soviet Union. I refuse to believe that it’s harder to get a few hundred howitzers into Ukraine today than it was to ship trucks and tanks past Nazi U-boats. Ukraine is running out of everything, even bullets. The U.S. has the way but not the will.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced another formidable Ukrainian military aid program at the Ramstein Air Base in Germany on Wednesday. The package includes some of the longer-range weapons Ukraine desperately needs. That’s good, but more is needed. Stop talking about negotiated outcomes that will only give Mr. Putin time to prepare his next attack. Helping Ukraine isn’t charity. Democracy can’t be defended on the cheap. The high cost of inflation will be nothing compared with the price Vladimir Putin will exact if he isn’t stopped now.

Mr. Kasparov is chairman of the Renew Democracy Initiative.
Title: Re: Views of Garry Kasparov
Post by: Grumpy on June 21, 2022, 04:02:39 PM
Awakened to Putin’s Threat, Biden and the West Nod Off Again
By Garry Kasparov (Russian former Chess Champion) June 17, 2022


Now we know the high cost of that failure to act—the slaughter, destruction and war crimes in Ukraine, and the food and fuel crises around the world. Instead of working to contain Mr. Putin in the eight years since he first invaded Ukraine, instead of insulating themselves against blackmail by becoming less dependent on Russian exports, American and European governments kicked the can down the road.


Mr. Biden may be besieged politically, but Mr. Zelensky is besieged literally, as Ukraine suffers great loss of life in its defense of the eastern Donbas region. The only way to end the war is by helping Ukraine regain its territory and sovereignty and destroying Mr. Putin’s war machine. Anything less would allow Russia to consolidate and rearm, while Ukrainians under occupation suffer.


The escalation Mr. Biden and other Western leaders say they fear if they take stronger action to support Ukraine is guaranteed by their caution. Ukraine is the frontline now, but if Mr. Putin succeeds, he won’t stop there. A direct confrontation with North Atlantic Treaty Organization forces will become inevitable. If the goal is Ukrainian victory, the White House must say so clearly and everything Ukraine needs must be sent now.


I agree.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on June 21, 2022, 04:05:36 PM
 A human interest story:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/06/27/a-ukrainian-refugees-fight-to-save-the-family-she-left-behind
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2022, 04:17:47 PM
source: wikipedia.org

Really think they gonna just run out?  Sure, their exports will dwindle due to 'domestic use', but otherwise I doubt the factories have shuttered their doors.

Back in Jan/Feb time before the invasion it was said that Russia could only afford financially to field an army on readyness around Ukraine for about 6 months to June/July time before the financial burden starts to get too much and they would have to demobilise. So they must be near the point now where he financial burden is really starting to bite. On top of that Factories need to be paid for what they produce in terms of armaments. Apart from some ammo & shells I doubt Russia is capable anymore of producing heavy armaments or they would have done so already. I just don't think the finance or knowhow is there. Everything says to me they only had so much resources to devote to military development and that went into a few specific areas, mostly missiles possibly a little into ships, subs. Most of their airforce old, tanks are old, most of their ships till recent old and many still are, infantry equipment is old. It's almost like seeing the old Soviet army pop up for some sort of historical re-enactment show, everything antiquated and worth a ganders if only in wonderment as to why they are using such old pieces of sh*t. Faced with a NATO army, even one as small as the UK alone I am pretty definite that we would smash them in next to no time and have them running for the hills. It's only their nukes and our defensive nature that keep us from doing that and I'm not even convinced if their nukes are in launchable condition without blowing up in their faces now.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2022, 12:24:31 AM
This is a good article on the effect of sanctions on Russia.

http://cepa.org/russia-begins-to-pay-the-price-for-sanctions/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 22, 2022, 01:20:15 AM
Back in Jan/Feb time before the invasion it was said that Russia could only afford financially to field an army on readyness around Ukraine for about 6 months to June/July time before the financial burden starts to get too much and they would have to demobilise. So they must be near the point now where he financial burden is really starting to bite. On top of that Factories need to be paid for what they produce in terms of armaments. Apart from some ammo & shells I doubt Russia is capable anymore of producing heavy armaments or they would have done so already. I just don't think the finance or knowhow is there.

Russia has the manpower and resources to produce a vast array of armaments.  The only limitation regards highly technical devices reliant on imported electronic 'chips' and other items that cannot be produced by Russia or its allies.  The latter can and is already being addressed by smuggling these items into Russia in manners that bypass import and export sanctions.

If necessary, Russia has a political and economic environment that would allow workers and factories to produce at near zero cost.  After all, they can print as many 100 Ruble notes as they wish, and have practically infinite energy and raw natural resources available domestically.  Those production lines can run indefinitely and even expand if the 'will of the people' can be maintained with propaganda or force.

I think you vastly underestimate the situation.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 22, 2022, 09:36:25 AM
There are reports today that the orc Warship "Saratov" is on fire in occupied Berdyansk.


If that name sounds familiar well "Saratov " is the name of the orc landing-craft that Ukraine  claimed to be destroyed and sunk in Berdyansk...blocking the harbour in March.


There is more fake news in this war than in a football transfer window...and that's saying something.


I guess as it's Russia and Ukraine involved we couldn't expect anything else.


I've a mind to forget all about this war for six months then take a look to see where things stand then...because the spurious reports from both sides are getting tiresome.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 22, 2022, 10:03:11 AM
Team Biden has to approve this and will never do it.
Ukraine would have to pay for it or Israel will never do it.

Ukraine Wants Israel's Iron Dome Defense System
http://www.newsweek.com/korniychuk-ukraine-israel-russia-war-iron-dome-military-rafael-1713757


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 22, 2022, 05:04:40 PM
This is a good article on the effect of sanctions on Russia.

http://cepa.org/russia-begins-to-pay-the-price-for-sanctions/
Bwahahaha, LMAO! Very balanced analysis... not. Have a look at who funds CEPA: http://cepa.org/about/our-supporters/

Russia's inflation rate is similar to the US rate of (consumer) inflation:

http://tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

The world is headed for global recession. Hopefully we're not headed for a global hot war. BTW the RUB is now trading at 55, the strongest since 2015. The markets are smarter than any analysts. What are the markets saying? Russia is not only 'winning' this conflict but decisively. (we all lose in war) The China-Russia alliance is a SUPER POWER. Not without problems but ascendant. Even the Indian foreign minister told Europe to go suck a dick. Global power is heading east. The glory days are well and truly over for the west. We'll get to 'enjoy' the Great Reset (ergo, great depression).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 22, 2022, 05:08:18 PM
I've a mind to forget all about this war for six months then take a look to see where things stand then...because the spurious reports from both sides are getting tiresome.
My rule of thumb is to wait 49 days before drawing any conclusions from media reporting. Typically by then a more complete picture is available.

The sources that have been accurately reporting (or predicting) 7+ weeks ago are probably worth listening to, if not it's likely propaganda.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2022, 05:46:29 PM
Bwahahaha, LMAO! Very balanced analysis... not. Have a look at who funds CEPA: http://cepa.org/about/our-supporters/

Russia's inflation rate is similar to the US rate of (consumer) inflation:

http://tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

The world is headed for global recession. Hopefully we're not headed for a global hot war. BTW the RUB is now trading at 55, the strongest since 2015. The markets are smarter than any analysts. What are the markets saying? Russia is not only 'winning' this conflict but decisively. (we all lose in war) The China-Russia alliance is a SUPER POWER. Not without problems but ascendant. Even the Indian foreign minister told Europe to go suck a dick. Global power is heading east. The glory days are well and truly over for the west. We'll get to 'enjoy' the Great Reset (ergo, great depression).

The article is written by a Russian, who is an expert on Russia.

In Soviet times, the ruble was worth twice as much as the dollar. The Soviet economy was a disaster.

No matter what you wish to believe, economically, Russia is a basket case.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 22, 2022, 08:04:42 PM
No matter what you wish to believe, economically, Russia is a basket case.
Public debt/GDP (http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/government-debt-to-gdp/):
USA 137%
Canada 118%
Russia 18%

Private debt/GDP (http://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/private-debt-to-gdp):
USA 236%
Canada 304% (hello multi-decade housing bubble)
Russia ??

Household debt/GDP (2018, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_debt):
USA 76%
Canada 101%
Russia 17%

External debt (http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/government-debt-to-gdp/):
USA 23 trillion
Canada 2.5 trillion
Russia 0.5 trillion

GDP value (http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/gdp/):
USA 20.9T
Canada 1.6T
Russia 1.5T

Debt per citizen (http://worlddebtclocks.com):
USA 65,000 USD
Canada 32,000 CAD
Russia 88,000 RUB

Current Account to GDP (2021; http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/current-account-to-gdp/):
USA -3.6%
Canada 0.1%
Russia 6.8%


Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Russia's economy WAS a basket case. It has many problems but you can't keep racking up debt and think it's not going to matter.

Income is much lower in Russia but so are debt and living expenses. The USA and Russia have a similar Gini coefficient, Russia's is actually lower: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

You want to know an economic basket case? Ukraine. It'll be a sink hole for years (unless you're politically connected, in which case it will be boom times).

If you read a financial news site like zerohedge you may actually learn a thing or two.  :P
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 22, 2022, 08:47:43 PM
Your primary argument is that Russia has a lower debt ratio to income compared to the west, and so that makes Russia economically superior to the west

If you compared the debt ratio of billionaires to homeless people, you’d find the billionaires also have a higher debt ratio – which according to your argument, makes homeless people economically superior to billionaires, so AS EVEN YOU CAN SEE, your arguments look pretty fookin dumb…

and THIS is what you learned from zerohedge…

with this level of an "intellect"
I can see why you can’t find a girlfriend...
sad...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2022, 10:12:50 PM
Public debt/GDP (http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/government-debt-to-gdp/):
USA 137%
Canada 118%
Russia 18%

Private debt/GDP (http://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/private-debt-to-gdp):
USA 236%
Canada 304% (hello multi-decade housing bubble)
Russia ??

Household debt/GDP (2018, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_debt):
USA 76%
Canada 101%
Russia 17%

External debt (http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/government-debt-to-gdp/):
USA 23 trillion
Canada 2.5 trillion
Russia 0.5 trillion

GDP value (http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/gdp/):
USA 20.9T
Canada 1.6T
Russia 1.5T

Debt per citizen (http://worlddebtclocks.com):
USA 65,000 USD
Canada 32,000 CAD
Russia 88,000 RUB

Current Account to GDP (2021; http://take-profit.org/en/statistics/current-account-to-gdp/):
USA -3.6%
Canada 0.1%
Russia 6.8%


Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Russia's economy WAS a basket case. It has many problems but you can't keep racking up debt and think it's not going to matter.

Income is much lower in Russia but so are debt and living expenses. The USA and Russia have a similar Gini coefficient, Russia's is actually lower: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

You want to know an economic basket case? Ukraine. It'll be a sink hole for years (unless you're politically connected, in which case it will be boom times).

If you read a financial news site like zerohedge you may actually learn a thing or two.  :P

Zerohedge isn’t a financial site. It’s an alt right aggregator.

I studied some economics in university.

I never claimed Ukraine’s economy was good. But Russia’s is about the same. The only difference is, Russia has an in demand commodity, which they have managed poorly.

The US has the ability to raise revenue very easily, if need be.   Canada’s position is far more precarious.

Nevertheless, I agree with krimster. You cannot compare Western economies and Russia. The latter is a basket case, which Putin seems hellbent on destroying.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 22, 2022, 10:13:22 PM
Your primary argument is that Russia has a lower debt ratio to income compared to the west, and so that makes Russia economically superior to the west

If you compared the debt ratio of billionaires to homeless people, you’d find the billionaires also have a higher debt ratio – which according to your argument, makes homeless people economically superior to billionaires, so AS EVEN YOU CAN SEE, your arguments look pretty fookin dumb…
LOL. I didn't say Russia was superior, I said the economy wasn't a basket case. Billionaires need cash flow to service debt.

Russia's cash flow (current account surplus TRIPLED): http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-16/russia-current-account-surplus-surges-to-96-billion-on-energy

USA's deficit: http://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

Hello printing press!

The "Russia's economy is a basket case" comes from the same thinking of "Russia will be crushed into oblivion by sanctions". And Biden's around for another 2+ years? LMAO, yeah vive la zapad!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 22, 2022, 10:23:48 PM
Zerohedge isn’t a financial site. It’s an alt right aggregator.
ZH was formed by ex-Wall Street guys providing financial reporting. Go back to 2009 archives if they're still available. It's all finance articles.

Since that time they've branched out and published 'general news' from a variety of sources. They still author their own content. Unlike mainstream media they are genuinely independent, hence "alt-right". After all they called Trump in 2016 when everyone else was gushing over President Hillary.

I'm not 'praising' the Russian economy, I just don't think it is in as bad a shape as western talking heads want to make you believe.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 23, 2022, 12:37:57 AM
BTW the RUB is now trading at 55, the strongest since 2015.

Quote
May 19 (Reuters) - Russia's central bank said on Thursday banks would be allowed to sell citizens foreign currency without any restrictions from May 20, with the exception of U.S. dollars and euros.

Restrictions on dollars and euros, which allow citizens to buy only those dollars and euros that arrived in banks after April 9, will remain in place until Sept. 9, the central bank said.

Reporting by Reuters; Editing by Angus MacSwan

http://www.reuters.com/business/finance/russian-ease-restrictions-cash-fx-apart-us-dollars-euros-2022-05-19/

Taking into account that outside RU, practically nobody will give you dollars for the ruble, and inside RU buying dollars with the ruble is also practically impossible,  I can only interpret that these factors are artificially propping up a theoretical, but not practical monetary value.

And now even holding USD in a RU bank will cost you money.

So if you had USD or EUR in a RU bank prior to April 9, you can't withdraw, and if you keep it in the bank fees and negative interest rates applied will eat it up, which is just another way of slowly confiscating these currencies from account holders
.
http://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-tinkoff-charge-monthly-1-fee-fx-accounts-reduce-exposure-2022-06-09/

So back to my original question from a while ago you seem to have conveniently ignored it..  If I send you RUB, will you send me EUR or USD, and at what exchange rate? What is the Ruble really worth to you?

I guess my response is along the line of 'Put up or shut up'...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on June 23, 2022, 06:12:48 AM

So back to my original question from a while ago you seem to have conveniently ignored it..  If I send you RUB, will you send me EUR or USD, and at what exchange rate? What is the Ruble really worth to you?

I guess my response is along the line of 'Put up or shut up'...

Any one willing to trade USD for any foreign currency would do it upon speculation. USD is still the reserve currency but, that is fading fast. I will offer you $1 USD per 140 RUB
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 23, 2022, 06:39:35 AM
Good example that illustrates my point FP.

I think I'll pass on your generous offer though :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 23, 2022, 07:58:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ivandjiiski

Zerohedge was founded by Даниел Иванджийски, (changed his name to Daniel K. Ivandjiiski when he moved to USA) who in 2008 was charged with gaining US$780 from an insider trade on 14–15 March 2006. On 3 September 2008, FINRA reached their decision, published on 11 September 2008, that Daniel K. Ivandjiiski was to be barred from acting as a broker or otherwise associating with a broker-dealer firm, and from being a FINRA member

in other words, he’s a freakin pro-Russian moron
so blogging is the only thing open to him
sure go ahead and slurp up whatever he posts, cuz it’s MEANT for people JUST LIKE YOU!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 23, 2022, 08:08:45 AM
Looks like the orcs have made some gains in Sievierodonetsk and the Ukrainians are barely holding on and may not be able to hold out for much longer. Ideally those Howitzers & Mobile Long Range Launchers from the west need to get there pretty soon by the looks of things or the Ukrainians may be pushed out.

In the south some better news as Ukrainian forces are advancing on Kherson and seem to be only a few miles outside the city now, so a reversal of fortune there. Only thing is, is that now Ukrainian citizens may be at risk of shelling from the Howitzers of their own forces as the Ukrainian army try to displace the orcs there. With that in mind the Ukrainian government has asked it's citizens to leave Kherson by any means possible. I'm not sure how likely that is as crossing the lines can be very dangerous especially trying to explain it to the orcs who have been known to shoot people trying. It has been suggested that they might use the Crimea land route but that again depends on whether the orcs allow it and whether they might end up stuck in Russia permanently. It looks like the orcs may use Kherson's citizens as a human shield if it comes to it, that would be pretty appalling were it to happen so let's hope it doesn't get to that.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 23, 2022, 09:29:23 AM
Good info on the situation with the Howitzers out in Ukraine at the moment:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/06/23/the-russians-are-targeting-ukraines-american-made-howitzers/amp/

Looks like plenty of Howitzers are now entering the field many from the US and are knocking out a lot of the orcs old Soviet stuff. Still a way to go most likely but it looks like Russia isn't liking the threat they pose and are using anything they can possibly do to take a few of them out. With the US holding about 1000 more Howitzers most of them redundant my guess is Ukraine could gain the upper hand with them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on June 23, 2022, 09:33:16 AM
Good example that illustrates my point FP.

I think I'll pass on your generous offer though :)

That's too bad. The offer now stands at $1 per 160 RUB. How much confidence do you have that Russia's economy is a basket case anyway? I'm just making this offer to help a bruvver out and dispose of the worthless currency.  :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 23, 2022, 11:56:26 AM
Hey FP,

Oh, I think the damage is considerable and will get worse as other countries re-orient their energy needs and sources.  The real damage goes far beyond the immediate effects being felt now.  It will take decades, or more for RU to build back any meaningful level of international trust necessary to be a part of, and participate in the world economy.  The only thing keeping them afloat is natural resources created millions of years ago.

So yes, I think such fits the definition of a basket case.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2022, 12:42:52 PM
Since that time they've branched out and published 'general news' from a variety of sources. They still author their own content. Unlike mainstream media they are genuinely independent, hence "alt-right". After all they called Trump in 2016 when everyone else was gushing over President Hillary.

I'm not 'praising' the Russian economy, I just don't think it is in as bad a shape as western talking heads want to make you believe.


You must not have access to much American media.  Other than MSNBC, no one was "gushing" over President Hillary.  Everything at the time predicted a close election.  Michael Moore predicted a Trump win very early, and he is a huge Democrat supporter.  Bill Clinton wanted to campaign in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, as he saw those were extremely tight races, and believed she needed more campaigning there in the last weeks of the election.  He was overruled by Robby Mook.


Go read Russian Twitter reports.  I don't post on Twitter, and have only started following a couple of analysts during the war.  But if you read Russian posts, the economy is suffering, particularly food prices, which have jumped far more than they have in my country.  It's not comparable to inflation in the West. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 23, 2022, 04:32:03 PM
If I send you RUB, will you send me EUR or USD, and at what exchange rate? What is the Ruble really worth to you?
What rate are you offering?

Russians still travel (hello USD). Plus not all banks are sanctioned.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 23, 2022, 04:41:54 PM
It will take decades, or more for RU to build back any meaningful level of international trust necessary to be a part of, and participate in the world economy.
China, India, Brazil, the Middle East, most of Africa and Asia disagree. It's only OECD countries that have gone BPD over Russia. An orientalist world view may overlook this.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2022, 05:52:29 PM
All Russian banks have now been cut from SWIFT.

What’s the Middle East going to buy from Russia?  Russia’s biggest export market was the EU.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 23, 2022, 10:53:18 PM
What’s the MIddle East going to buy from Russia?
Food, food, food. They don't want another Arab Spring! Here's info on wheat: http://www.zol.ru/n/365ea

Gold. http://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/precious-metals-investing/gold-investing/top-gold-producing-countries/

Armaments. http://www.mei.edu/publications/russia-looks-middle-east-boost-arms-exports

Any domestic production/development may use Russian commodities (iron, steel, wood, materials, etc.). There are a limited number of nuclear reactors in the Middle East, but Russia can build them and supply uranium.

The Middle East doesn't need oil but India does. Oh wait... http://www.livemint.com/news/india/indias-oil-imports-from-russia-jumps-50-times-accounts-for-10-of-all-import-11655998970715.html

Yup, nothing to sell... maybe matryoshka dolls.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 23, 2022, 11:37:18 PM
rwd123,

I can agree some countries may want to buy grain from Russia, even gold.  Does RU insist on payment in Ruble from these countries? hehehe...

As for armaments, your link from an article posted in 2019 is outdated, likely much different nowadays due to 'domestic consumption.  I highly doubt any arms are being exported.

Sure, oil sells as well, but RU is having to give hefty discounts.  RU will still make some money on it though.

I doubt any country will be buying nuclear technology from RU going forward aside from any deals already made/under construction.  Are there any?

Oh, and by the way, you were the one touting that the Rubble was good value.  It's up to you to entice me and not the other way 'round.  Show me how valuable it really is.  Have you tried buying dollars or EU for Rubble?  IMO the official exchange rates are vastly overstated.  What's the street value? 

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2022, 11:45:19 PM
Even at converted prices, Russia has always exported less than $8 billion in wheat. It’s not a winning formula for a prosperous economy.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 24, 2022, 12:26:53 PM
Looks like there may be a chance of the Russian Federation de-federating as I said early on in all of this:

http://inews.co.uk/news/world/putin-using-ukraine-war-russia-independence-moscow-1698699

So Pootin could end up losing more territory than he seeks to gain in Ukraine. Once he's run down the state of the army and it seems to be getting towards that now opportunity will likely exist for a break up. If the 22 Republics all break off at about the same time Pootin won't know what to do with it all. It would be good news for us, more FSU countries to visit and possibly some of them with a visa free regime :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 24, 2022, 04:59:09 PM
As for armaments, your link from an article posted in 2019 is outdated, likely much different nowadays due to 'domestic consumption.  I highly doubt any arms are being exported.

Sure, oil sells as well, but RU is having to give hefty discounts.  RU will still make some money on it though.
Turkey is continuing making payments for S-400 systems: http://news.yahoo.com/erdogan-says-turkey-continues-400-payments-criticises-u-204336302--finance.html

That's one example, DYOR. Arms sales is big business: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/9/infographic-which-countries-buy-the-most-russian-weapons

Oil sales are at a discount compared to other countries but DOUBLE what has been budgeted by the Russian Federation. We're entering a commodity super cycle which all commodity producers will benefit from.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 24, 2022, 05:04:32 PM
Even at converted prices, Russia has always exported less than $8 billion in wheat. It’s not a winning formula for a prosperous economy.
It buys a LOT of political leverage. What's the value in being able to threaten starvation on  a country, or offer to avoid such calamity (and political fallout)?

I don't think Russia's too concerned about diverting wheat to other markets, especially when its wheat fields are currently expanding...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 24, 2022, 05:20:36 PM
Are they expanding?
Will they have equipment and storage facilities?
I do believe they can ramp up,but how quickly seems much more of any issue.
 
The west likely has the ability to do so at a faster pace?.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 24, 2022, 05:22:00 PM
This may very well be edited footage,
But if not, the new  Russian S-180 system seems very effective.

http://youtube.com/shorts/eePHwo7wbtQ?feature=share
 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 24, 2022, 06:41:46 PM
It buys a LOT of political leverage. What's the value in being able to threaten starvation on  a country, or offer to avoid such calamity (and political fallout)?

I don't think Russia's too concerned about diverting wheat to other markets, especially when its wheat fields are currently expanding...

Russia’s wheat fields are not expanding. Kherson is being retaken. The wheat growing regions of Zaporizhia are under Ukrainian control, as are the wheat growing regions od Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts, although they grow relatively little wheat.

That “leverage” is unstable. The US and Canada could easily replace Russia as a source of wheat.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 24, 2022, 07:43:53 PM
Russia is a freakin mafiya kleptocratic state

read about Paul Klebnikov here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov


he was the first editor of Russian Forbes Magazine
wrote an article about Russia’s Fortune 100 People
which showed that 25% of Russia’s wealth was owned by about 100 people
who were all inter-connected
he found that 75% of these people gained their fortune, by privitizing big government owned enterprises, like oil and gas, etc

they shot and killed him
OK?
this is the Russia I KNOW..
don't know where you dingo groomers get your infor from Russia from, your aborigines maybe?

right me cobber?
put another little shriveled up shrimp on the barbie
and chug yiur warm Foster's
you thinking you're part of the intelligentsia is just "priceless" humour
as well as your complete lack of self-awarenes
the  PIÈCE DE RÉSISTANCE of your sad little existence is NO POOTY TANG for you AT ALL!!!!
only sex you have is with your RIGHT HAND!!!
unless...
YOU'RE LEFT HANDED!!!!

Quick, someone call the ER "Burn Ward" looks like they got a REAL serious case!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 24, 2022, 08:23:27 PM
Good point, krim. Ten families own the majority of Russian farmland and agricultural entities. Foreigners own 5%, and small farmers or the state own 7%.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 24, 2022, 08:31:16 PM
Russia was ALWAYS a feudal state, in one way or another...
smart Russians - LEFT!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 24, 2022, 09:22:25 PM
Are they expanding?
Where have you been the last four months?

http://liveuamap.com

Russia's not stopping in Donbas.

Boe, Russia has lots of problems, I realize that, but it's not as bad you'd wish. I'd rather live in reality. Russia is not a utopia, however it's not about to collapse like your Azov boys in Mariupol.

A good week however. Roe v. Wade thrown out, expanded gun rights. The sun still rises in the morning. MAGA 2.0 here we come! Trump was right, everything woke turns to shit. Currently sums up the White House, the EU and NATO!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 24, 2022, 10:45:19 PM
The Azov Batallion are not “my boys”.  I am Canadian.

Russia is a third world s***hole, ruled by a kleptocratic plutocracy. It gives me no pleasure to state this obvious fact.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on June 24, 2022, 11:10:46 PM
The Azov Batallion are not “my boys”.  I am Canadian.

Russia is a third world s***hole, ruled by a kleptocratic plutocracy. It gives me no pleasure to state this obvious fact.
Shithole or not, reality eventually catches up with everyone.

http://youtu.be/FJlAKsy5uOk

Kleptocracy or thievocracy, the song always has a similar tune.

http://medium.com/yardcouch-com/blackrock-the-secret-company-that-owns-the-world-b96111277e0f
http://www.farmlandriches.com/largest-farmland-owners/


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2022, 12:56:58 AM
Ah, always up for a conspiracy theory.

You forgot to add (to round out the conspiracy), that Blackrock was founded, and is run by, the Joooos.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2022, 03:29:14 AM

A good week however. Roe v. Wade thrown out

Got to say it's good to see Roe v. Wade finally gone in the US, never thought that would happen as it was kind of had become like a cornerstone of the justice system over there I got the impression. I'm not religious at all but I think it was very much a feminist crusade that one so good to see it go all women should have to undergo the joys of pregnancy I think :D Well maybe not the ugly overweight ones lol.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2022, 03:45:23 AM
Well last info I have heard is the Ukrainian army seems to have halted their advance towards Kherson. My guess is that the realisation is that to take the city back they would have to pummel it with artillery to displace the Orcs just like the Orcs did in Mariupol. That of course would be particularly unpleasant to do to their own people and of course you can bet your life the Orcs are keeping enough of the Ukrainians their from leaving to use as their human shield. In Donbass Sievierodonetsk has almost fallen with remaining Ukrainian troops being ordered to retreat so it appears. Probably nothing left if the city to hide within it looks. The howitzers and mobile launchers the west have promised seem to be getting through to Ukraine in general now but looks like probably just not quite made it in time for that city.

Other than that Ukraine & Moldova got candidate status to join the EU though many don't think it will come about fir many, many years, if ever as Ukraine's economy will be too shattered plus remaining concerns over corruption. I personally don't think any country should be allowed to join without it being put to their people first in a referendum otherwise they are being tied up to the EU without their consent with a wish to join being assumed instead of known for certain, that's not democratic in my view. I just don't think Ukraine realises what it's getting itself into in joining the EU. I think they would get quite a surprise if it ever happened, that it wouldn't be as wonderful as some Ukrainians think it would be. In any case at the moment the EU's finances are in the sh*t. Worse still the southern EU member state economies from Greece to Italy are back as concerns over the debt they are taking on and whether they can hold up long term. Looks like in Italy the anti-EU, right wing parties are gaining in popularity quickly, the League, etc and the Five Star are getting pretty unpopular if recent polling holds true, Parliamentary Elections due next year in 2023 apparently, could be interesting.

At the moment it looks like in Ukraine the next move will be with Ukraine to see whether they make a move to counterattack and retake the lost territory or hold firm and wait for Russia to exhaust itself and possible events in Russia to take their course.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 25, 2022, 09:24:17 AM
Trench,

my wife delivered two baby girls in California!
California has the most liberal abortion laws
here’s how THIS ACTUALLY AFFECTED ME!

During a pre-natal screening we opted to do a screen of the embryo for Spina Bifida
if a baby is born with this condition
it will never lift its head, feed itself, or say mama, ok?

My wife and I decided to take the test, and if it cam back positive, we’d abort the pregnancy and try again

WE DECIDED TRENCH!!!
not some members of a church being influenced by politicians eager for their vote
not the government

WE DECIDED!!!
see the difference?

why are conservatives ALWAYS against reproductive and sexual freedom?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

you can't be forced to put on a mask during a severe pandemic
but you can be forced to have your rapist's baby

freedumb

Trench, I have a feeling that you ain't gonna have to worry about abortions, EVER!
OK?
just get yourself a pet of some kind


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 25, 2022, 09:54:57 AM

why are conservatives ALWAYS against reproductive and sexual freedom?


I am not.

There should be more abortions.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 25, 2022, 11:05:41 AM
I am not.

There should be more abortions.

I guess I am considered a 'libtard' here at RWD. Personally, I am against abortion.  I do accept though that I, or anyone else for that matter, should not have any authority over this private aspect of other people's lives, ultimately even that of a spouse or other woman I impregnated.  The same goes for what consenting adults or even minors do together in their private sphere.  I also believe the terminally ill should be afforded the same dignity departing this life as I provide my ailing dogs or cats.

Human rights to freedom and happiness lie above the limited words written in our Constitution. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 25, 2022, 12:26:07 PM

Krimster: why are conservatives ALWAYS against reproductive and sexual freedom?
- - - - -  - -
So much for trying to label people.

I am a conservative who is for abortion, and more of them.

BC is a liberal who is against abortion.

I agree with BC on the other matter that people should be able to end their own lives as they wish.  I am a member of Exit International and have my nitrogen tank and mask.   http://www.exitinternational.net/

We need to move this to another thread also.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2022, 02:41:04 PM
Trench,

my wife delivered two baby girls in California!
California has the most liberal abortion laws
here’s how THIS ACTUALLY AFFECTED ME!

During a pre-natal screening we opted to do a screen of the embryo for Spina Bifida
if a baby is born with this condition
it will never lift its head, feed itself, or say mama, ok?

My wife and I decided to take the test, and if it cam back positive, we’d abort the pregnancy and try again

WE DECIDED TRENCH!!!
not some members of a church being influenced by politicians eager for their vote
not the government

WE DECIDED!!!
see the difference?

why are conservatives ALWAYS against reproductive and sexual freedom?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

you can't be forced to put on a mask during a severe pandemic
but you can be forced to have your rapist's baby

freedumb

Trench, I have a feeling that you ain't gonna have to worry about abortions, EVER!
OK?
just get yourself a pet of some kind

Well makes sense to not have the child if the child is not healthy of course, didn't know it stopped that as well. Wouldn't feel right myself having a child who couldn't live a decent full life as would feel kind of cruel doing that.

Well Sievierodonetsk has fallen, looks like the new flashpoint is the city just south of there, with a bit of luck Ukraine will be able to get the howitzers & mobile launchers there soon.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 25, 2022, 02:59:18 PM
ML,

you should use Helium and not Nitrogen!
that way, you can make funny voices during this process, "hey boss, de plane"
are you keeping this in case Biden wins another term?

if I ever wanted euthanasia, i'd go outside, get mud on my shoes
and then walk all over my wife's wooden floors without taking off the shoes
I'd be a goner for sure
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 25, 2022, 04:58:26 PM
Well makes sense to not have the child if the child is not healthy of course, didn't know it stopped that as well. Wouldn't feel right myself having a child who couldn't live a decent full life as would feel kind of cruel doing that.

Well Sievierodonetsk has fallen, looks like the new flashpoint is the city just south of there, with a bit of luck Ukraine will be able to get the howitzers & mobile launchers there soon.
He unknowingly  made a great example of both pro.life and pro abortion.
Why?
becase spina bifida is so varied in type and degree that his conclusion of prognosis of infants with it  is way in.left field.
Yes it can be exactly as desciribed.
It can also be treatable.
It can also be so.mild people have it and do not know thay have it.

The fetal test showing a  positve requires more  in depth analyisis ,imaginh and tests by physicians.
Although i get krims point and agree with it in principle
(And i'm .a conservative)
;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on June 25, 2022, 05:14:33 PM
Where have you been the last four months?

http://liveuamap.com

Russia's not stopping in Donbas.


Watching my family sit from.5 to. 30 klicks from.the friont line,and the only direction russian troops have gone is back.

They are in a far far more strategic and valuable location then russias two months of sheiiet show in severodonetsk.


I dint see one extra hectar of wheat planted in ukraine by russia  in the 22 growing season and there wont be.

If you have some evidence to.the contrary besides a map showing they are fightimg for control.of 14% more land than the dpr held since 08 let me know,o
Its not like they are farming it,and its certainly not a known they will hold it.

Although they have stolen grain,thats something they can show that would be ready* this year.


No they wont stop at donbas unless forved to.
Thanks for making such a good point.

Hows those new russdian  admins snd governors in occupied  melitopol.and kheesin doing?

One was killed a dsy after the possibility* he was a likely candidate was announced, thd other resigned yesterday after a few attacks in the area by partisans.

Good look holding that farm ground.

My opinion is they will  make some gains until.august,then be damned lucky to.hold what dnr had prior, by december




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 25, 2022, 07:53:44 PM
Surely, one side or the other will at least ATTEMPT to end the current stale-mate
by creating some kinda “strategic shift” in the near future, almost certainly after summer

if I were Ukraine, I’d add a MUCH larger “partisan” effort to this war
and you don’t need advanced weapons for that
I'd also use western money to offer bounties to partisan groups who kill Russian soldiers

how about recruiting a couple of thousand young female snipers (good lookin ones ONLY!!)
and issue them Mosin Nagant PU91/30 with Scope
did you ever see the movie “Sevastpol”?
 it’s on youtube if not
so imagine a couple of thousand of them, and their numbers won’t come out of the forces you directly mobilize for front-line use
and pay them bounties for each soldier killed, with bonuses starting at 10 and up
and they are distributed the full length of the Russian front-lines

then I’d have multiple IED factories turning captured Russian shells, bombs into IEDS
and there would be about 100 IED attacks per week, military barracks, logistics, etc
also with bounties

you'd be amazed at how MOTIVATED you can make Ukrainians this way!!!
this would be a threshing machine for chewing up Russians
with no big pieces of hardware
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2022, 01:35:06 AM
A recent article on the state of the military situation out in Ukraine on the front line:

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-80-of-troops-killed-or-injured-in-elite-military-unit-says-commander-and-its-future-is-unclear-12639752

Heavy losses on both sides it appears with Russia taking the heaviest. Looks like both sides are moving new recruits to the front now. Like was said earlier is becoming a war of attrition. Although the heavy armaments may get depleted especially on the Russian side my guess is that both sides can keep at it like this for quite some time. The losses of men are heavy but both can likely call up many more men. Ukraine has conscripted all Ukrainian men aged 18-65 in the country while Russia has a huge country (at the moment) from which to pluck them from. My guess is that at the current rate of losses many Russian & Ukrainian families will end up without their men in future.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2022, 08:37:09 AM
the West needs to get more aggressive with Russia
not just a little slap in the face
but a hard kick to the testicles followed by a punch to the chin

and you know what, you English speaking peoples
I know how to do that

here's how:

to kill a big-assed Texas rattlesnake, you don't cut-off its tail, you cut off its HEAD!
ponelle?
Google "putin offshore company" and look at the billions and billions and billions

we already got some of it!
but I say, GET IT ALL, EVERY FREAKIN KOPEC!!!
and put this money in a trust fund, (administed by anyone but Ukrainians)
and use it to pay Ukrainian partisans

the payroll of 100,000 male and female partisans, for a couple of years would be a tiny fraction of Putin's off-shore wealth
buy their weapons as well, no "heavy stuff" required
sniper rifles, unexploded artillery shells, batteries, etc
Russians would be cut to shreds in a year

OTOH, if Putin eascaltes
the most important things for him will be if the West  ALSO escalates, if they don't, then HE scores a small victory against the west

we'll see if the West decides to use the impending developing world wheat famine
to lay the ground work, for the US Navy, to bring anti-missile frigates to the black sea to protect Odesa from missile attack
as well as protect inbound and outbound wheat laden freighters with destroyer escorts

huge historical precedent for this from a century ago!!!
google "USS WHIPPLE" go to the entry for the one in the Black Sea in 1919!!!

it would be CRAZY if the US Navy had a ship with this name, and it led the fleet into the Black Sea in 2023 to save Odesa
CRAZY!


Title: Whose side is time on ???
Post by: ML on June 26, 2022, 08:37:37 AM
As time goes on, Ukraine will be favored because they are continuing to get more and better equipment from the West.  Russian soldiers and Russian public will become more and more inclined to rebel against Putin.  Ukrainian people will never give up because they are being invaded.

As time goes on, Russia will be favored because the West will become weary of spending so much money and resources on Ukraine when there are so many pressing fiscal problems in the home countries.  Russian people will never become weary no matter how many of their young men are killed; it's in their DNA to suffer and allow their young men to be killed.
Title: Re: Whose side is time on ???
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2022, 01:40:22 PM
As time goes on, Ukraine will be favored because they are continuing to get more and better equipment from the West.  Russian soldiers and Russian public will become more and more inclined to rebel against Putin.  Ukrainian people will never give up because they are being invaded.

As time goes on, Russia will be favored because the West will become weary of spending so much money and resources on Ukraine when there are so many pressing fiscal problems in the home countries.  Russian people will never become weary no matter how many of their young men are killed; it's in their DNA to suffer and allow their young men to be killed.

An interesting recent article here on this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61938351.amp

Basically France & Germany are wavering already, sure I understand the economic pressures they are under moreso Germany which has been dependant on Russian Oil & Gas, but they have been using that cheap oil & gas in my opinion to get their economy in no.1 spot for many years now. I personally think it's only fair they have to give as a result of that now.

I do think that Boris is right on ensuring Russia don't win in Ukraine or they will just become a bigger beast. It sounds like propping up Ukraine though is costing a lot and the money and armaments are being burned through fast!

I personally think we need to come full out on sanctions now and Ukraine to hit Russia hard in the field to try to end this quickly, if it drags on a long time and Russia is able to keep in the fight then western economies might become over burdened to keep supplying Ukraine. So far though I'm guessing Russia's army must be getting pretty worn down now.

My favourite bit of the article:


The prime minister told CNN he thought Brexit had allowed the UK to better assist Ukraine in defending itself against Russia.

"I don't think that we would have been out in front as the first European country to arm the Ukrainians," he said. :D
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 26, 2022, 04:36:11 PM

if I ever wanted euthanasia, i'd go outside, get mud on my shoes
and then walk all over my wife's wooden floors without taking off the shoes
I'd be a goner for sure


Hahahhaha!

Thank you for that
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2022, 05:39:44 PM
it wasn't SO FUNNY the one and only time I didn't take my shoes off before coming in the house when I was first married...
learned a lotta new Russian words that day, AND had to clean the floor...
AND had my sex ration greatly reduce for about a week
I DEFINITELY NEVER did that again!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 26, 2022, 11:54:37 PM
Hey rwd, here’s what your boys are doing-

http://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=488&v=2D_Ogifqm2c&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 27, 2022, 12:59:23 PM
Here's more of their war tactics - bombing a "legitimate" target shopping centre in Poltava, where there are no troops from either side -


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-invasion-day-124-1.6502606
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 27, 2022, 01:22:31 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-russian-ruble-rise-prove-western-sanctions-dont-work-1718387
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on June 27, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
Another factor in the ruble’s value is sanctions. Importers don’t need to convert rubles to other currencies, which inflates the ruble’s value.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 27, 2022, 05:58:46 PM
Another factor in the ruble’s value is sanctions. Importers don’t need to convert rubles to other currencies, which inflates the ruble’s value.

Also just fewer imports into Russia.

But anyway, discussions such as this are mostly useless because we are trying to analyze the weight of factors in a free market for rubles.

The market for rubles is manipulated by Russian government away from its free market equilibrium value.  There are many tools available to do this.  But often when countries try this, they soon run out of capability to do so.  It is uncertain in my mind what resources Russia has to maintain an artificial value.  Gold reserves comes to mind.
Title: BC, you are right and I was wrong
Post by: 2tallbill on June 27, 2022, 08:16:14 PM
I think you are vastly underestimating the challenges involved 2tall.

I talked to somebody who knows far more than I do along with many of
the challenges involved and you are right and I was wrong. I am humbled
by how wrong I was.

I apologize.

Bill

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 27, 2022, 11:14:06 PM
Hi 2tall,

when learning, apologies are unnecessary.  Thanks for digging in a bit deeper, and confirming my thoughts were somewhere in the ballpark.

I did see an article recently that additional HIMARS are on the way, and that training started in early June or even before.  Seems it takes around a month to train crews.

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/06/us-sending-more-himars-artillery-ukraine/368556/

http://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3049912/dr-colin-kahl-under-secretary-of-defense-for-policy-holds-a-press-briefing/

This does seem to show that a lot of deliberate and forward-thinking planning is going on that we may not be able to see at first glance.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 28, 2022, 05:12:25 AM
When the orcs are struggling they turn their anger on civilians..hence the  missile strike on a packed shopping mall in Kremenchuk yesterday.


It's their MO.


The reason the orcs are now struggling are the HIMARS...hence Putler's desperate dash to the Kremlin at 11pm on Saturday night.He knows he's in big trouble.


Everyday there are videos of HIMARS strikes on Ammunition depots way behind the orc front lines and the orcs can't cope with it...and they're the ones we know about,we won't know about the ones that weren't video'd and put out there by the locals.


The only place the HIMARS can't reach in Ukraine is Crimea,and the orcs will find it tough to re-supply from there with Ukrainian Artillery and HIMARS watching and waiting to hit their supply columns from there.


The latest strike was reportedly on a orc military base in Perevalsk in Luhansk region...with many orc casualties.


Many military analysts forecast that May and June would be tough for Ukraine.but that July and August would be tough for the orcs.


Some are forecasting a Kyiv -style fleeing in terror again from Ukraine for the orcs in September...hopefully they're correct...we shall see.


More HIMARS arriving in Ukraine shortly  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 28, 2022, 03:03:38 PM
Big explosion at the orc airbase in Kursk just now.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on June 28, 2022, 05:41:18 PM
Turkey lifts veto on Finland, Sweden joining NATO, clearing path for expansion
http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-press-turkey-finland-sweden-hope-nato-breakthrough-2022-06-28/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 30, 2022, 02:23:36 AM
After being totally pummelled by Ukrainian Artillery last night the orcs have now abandoned and retreated from Snake Island.


Confirmed by both the Ukraine and orc Ministry of Defences.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 30, 2022, 02:33:54 AM
144 Ukrainian POW returned to Ukraine yesterday, being swapped for the same number of orc's.


95 of them fought for Azovstal,including 43 from the Azov Battalion.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 30, 2022, 05:12:36 AM
There will be very little up to date news on verifiable Ukrainian military operations being released from now on.


This is because the Ukrainian Military has asked reliable sources to keep news about what is happening quiet,as releasing news quickly can be detrimental to their operatiions.


So the news will be released through official sources when it is the right time to do so.


Suffice to say that as things currently stand the orcs continue to make gains in the Luhansk region,but are either stalled or losing ground everywhere else in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on June 30, 2022, 06:34:34 AM
Chealseaboy,

and just announced an additional 800 million along with air defense systems.  I suspect training has already started somewhere.


There will be very little up to date news on verifiable Ukrainian military operations being released from now on.

This is because the Ukrainian Military has asked reliable sources to keep news about what is happening quiet,as releasing news quickly can be detrimental to their operatiions.


That sounds like significant offensive actions are underway.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on June 30, 2022, 07:34:17 AM
After being totally pummelled by Ukrainian Artillery last night the orcs have now abandoned and retreated from Snake Island.


Confirmed by both the Ukraine and orc Ministry of Defences.

Apparently you missed the Russian declaration that they withdrew from Snake Island as a gesture of goodwill toward helping start grain exports.

They are the good guys here.  Try to keep up.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 30, 2022, 04:10:39 PM
Apparently you missed the Russian declaration that they withdrew from Snake Island as a gesture of goodwill toward helping start grain exports.

They are the good guys here.  Try to keep up.


If they didn't have Nukes they'd be a joke.


I'm sure you've seen the video Jumper posted on here with one of their SAM's boomeranging on itself when fired.


I've seen a video of one of their much -vaunted Iskander missiles being launched toward Ukraine from Belgorad and blowing up in the sky above the launch pad.


They keep threatening us with Nukes but it has to be a 50/50 chance that the first one they launched would end up Nuking them. >:D


First of all they said the Kremenchuk shopping mall attack was staged by Ukraine,then they later changed the story saying it was their missile attack but they were targeting a Ukrainian military facility nearby,whch journalists at the scene say is another lie.


There are photo's out there of Snake Island ablaze last night..so the orcs telling lies again...they were clearly kicked-off the island.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 30, 2022, 04:17:07 PM
Chealseaboy,

and just announced an additional 800 million along with air defense systems.  I suspect training has already started somewhere.


That sounds like significant offensive actions are underway.


They showed 450 Ukrainian troops training at Salisbury Plain here in the UK this week on Sky News today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 01, 2022, 01:08:41 AM

They showed 450 Ukrainian troops training at Salisbury Plain here in the UK this week on Sky News today.

Other live-fire training areas in the EU, maybe even in the US are likely pretty booked up as well.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 01, 2022, 06:33:22 AM
Whilst the orcs have been getting their daily perverted  kicks by firing missiles into residential areas and killing civilians again,this time in Odesa,the Ukrainian military have been busy hitting more logistical orc targets in Ukraine today.


1/Yet  another orc ammo depot was blown up ,this time in Yasinovataya,Donbas.


2/ An orc oil depot was destroyed by a Tochka U missile in Rovensky,Donbas..which is approx 100km behind the orc front lines.


3/ Warehouses,which according to the locals were used by the orc soldiers,were shelled and are now on fire in Kiselivka village near Kherson.
Hopefully there were plenty of orcs inside the warehouses at the time of the shelling.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 02, 2022, 06:25:06 AM
Interesting article here:

http://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-retaking-kherson-could-create-battle-similar-mariupol-1720799

It's essentially saying what I had been saying a little while ago that the Ukrainians would have to fire on and destroy their own city, Kherson if they tried to retake it. On that front it seems better that they don't as apart from the loss of life the destruction of the city would make it a pointless endeavour. As the article points out Ukraine would struggle to cross and take positions the other side of the river just to the eastern side of Kherson and so the Orcs would blast Kherson from there also. So my guess would be that Ukrainian troops won't advance a lot more towards Kherson and will dig in where they can if they can and roughly hold the line.

So odds are Ukraine would have to concentrate on a counter offensive in Donbas and probably from Zap down towards Melitopol and take back Kherson that way by surrounding the city along with trying to retake Mariupol & possibly latee Crimea.

Looks like the Orcs will soon be pushed on the defensive as they exhaust their army and Ukraine gets its western armaments and trained troops to the front. Odds are I'm guessing is that it will occur around about the same time so a sea change in the war soon hopefully in favour of Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 02, 2022, 08:20:33 AM
HIMARS destroyed an orc arms depot near Popasna,Luhansk region today...the ensuing mushroom cloud looks like a Nuke has gone off,it's that big.


Ukrainian artillery are really impressed with the HIMARS.They're saying if they'd received them earlier the orcs would have been kicked out of Ukraine by now.



Big fire at Chernobaevka in the vicinity of Kherson ,as explosions from incoming Ukrainian shelling heard today.
Local residents claim they were orc positions being hit.


Norway announces $1 billion aid for Ukraine.
This comes on top of the £1 billion from the UK and the $800 million from the USA announced during the week.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 03, 2022, 03:27:18 AM
One of four orc military bases in Melitopol destroyed last night.


There now seems to be a daily Ukrainian strategy of concentrating their efforts  on destroying the orc military infrastructure in Ukraine.


This is allied to engaging in battle with the orcs in  the Donbas region,killing as many of them as possible ,then withdrawing ...drawing the orcs deeper into Ukraine whilst cutting off their weapons supply through destroying their ammo/weapons depots.


Could well end up with the orcs encircled ,running low on ammo and weapons and being massacred ..let's hope so .


The Ukrainian troops wouldn't even need to engage with the orcs very much anymore..just sit back and enjoy the show as the HIMARS obliterate the orcs at long-range. >:D



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 03, 2022, 08:33:49 AM
Another orc ammunition depot is now on fire in Ukraine.


This one is at Chervonogvardiysky district ,Donetsk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2022, 11:55:58 AM
Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk, their last holdout in key region

http://www.cnn.com/2022/07/03/europe/russia-ukraine-luhansk-lysychansk-intl/index.html


Lysychansk seems to have fallen quickly but I think it's been under attack for some time ever since Sievierodonetsk was, even still I got the impression that Sievierodonetsk was bearing the brunt of the attacks so had kind of though Ukraine would hold out a bit longer in Lysychansk. The Russians had to cross the river to Lysychansk which they had trouble with before so strategically it's not great for Ukraine and makes me wonder if Ukrainian forces are weakened a lot. Still the fighting will no doubt move to other cities in Ukraine and a lot of western armaments, howitzers & mobile launchers will no doubt increasingly be putting in an appearance from here on onwards.

The report cites some small Ukrainian wins on targets in other areas so not all bad news. My guess is that Russia will start running out of steam in the next few days to weeks so that will be good to see also.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 04, 2022, 06:18:53 AM
Spectacular firework display at Snizhne ,Donetsk province last night,as HIMARS destroyed a big orc arms depot.


Update :


An orc equipment depot in Petrovsky district,Donetsk is on fire today after being hit by Ukrainian artillery.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 04, 2022, 04:12:27 PM
Also orc ammunition depots at Yakovlivka ,Donetsk region and in the area of Donetsk railway station were destroyed today.


It's claimed 12 orc ammunition and equipment depots were destroyed by Ukrainian artillery and HIMARS today,although i've personally only seen videos of 4 of them up in flames.


Ammo depot in Tuva,Russia also on fire today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 05, 2022, 03:21:59 AM
Two more orc ammo depots destroyed this morning.


Kadivka in Luhansk region.


Big one at the "Kamaz center " in Donetsk currently exploding now.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2022, 03:58:15 PM
That's great news CB finally the Himars are reaching the front and destroying Russian targets crucially helping to degrade the Russian military ability to fight:

http://news.sky.com/story/himar-system-the-new-us-weapon-being-used-by-ukraine-against-russian-targets-12646263

Looks like the US finally pulled their finger out ;D

Their on the front line near Dnipro/Zap and no doubt will be getting towards the Luhansk region that has just fallen to the Russians and will help the fight back their soon I'm sure.

Today Zelensky made a comment about the conflict being over by Christmas, not really a great date to choose given past history in WWI over such comments that were dashed. Many commentators were dubious if that would be the case. Just have to see how things go I guess.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 06, 2022, 05:50:14 AM
There is a big fire in the centre of Kherson today.


Reportedly it's a plastics warehouse,but from the sound of the subsequent detonations the orcs were using it as an ammo depot.


Sabotage is the likely cause.


Update is that,according to locals, the cause of the fire was a gas cylinder explosion ,with the fire spreading, and it has not been confirmed that ammo was stored there.


There has been another orc ammo depot destroyed by Ukrainian artillery at Kuibyshevsky district,Donetsk today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 06, 2022, 02:30:25 PM
Here's video of the building on fire -


http://youtu.be/vOtnhYKNJSI
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2022, 08:34:57 AM
Well Boris has resigned as PM, looks like a load of selfish backstabbers had it in for him. He's staying on till potentially October time this year after that it will be down to whoever takes over whether support for Ukraine will continue. I personally don't think that there are that many in the Tory Party who would continue to support Ukraine as enthusiastically and as genuinely as Boris has done. I would rather have wished he stayed on. Possibly might be another General Election in the offing here as well as whoever takes over won't have been given the mandate at a Election to lead the country.

If Ukraine can turn the tide of battle by September/October time then that would probably be best for them in case financial & military support starts to falter. It would be a bad thing for the world if Russia were to end up winning because of that I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 07, 2022, 05:32:39 PM
Well Boris has resigned as PM, looks like a load of selfish backstabbers had it in for him. He's staying on till potentially October time this year after that it will be down to whoever takes over whether support for Ukraine will continue. I personally don't think that there are that many in the Tory Party who would continue to support Ukraine as enthusiastically and as genuinely as Boris has done. I would rather have wished he stayed on. Possibly might be another General Election in the offing here as well as whoever takes over won't have been given the mandate at a Election to lead the country.

If Ukraine can turn the tide of battle by September/October time then that would probably be best for them in case financial & military support starts to falter. It would be a bad thing for the world if Russia were to end up winning because of that I think.


I totally agree with all this post.


As one of the female Tory MP's said after his resignation speech "Our country will rue this day ".


Putler and the Kremlin have been crowing about his resignation all day today.


The Kremlin have been saying it's the start of the fall of Europe.


Whilst Putler went on Russian state tv to challenge the west to now fight his army on the battlefield instead of trying to use Ukrainians to fight our battle.


I bet the orcs can't believe their good luck.,,,their public enemy number one having to resign over something so relatively unimportant in comparison to an impending World War three with Latvia now reinstating compulsory military service for their men in response to Russian aggression.


It was Boris who galvanised Europe and NATO into defying Putler..the respect he was given by everyone at the NATO and G7 conferences was plain to see,


The Ukrainian people are totally gutted by this backstabbing of our PM by self-serving chancers in his party.


We shall now see how we and the west now fare against the orcs with our new UK "leader".


What a time to be alive  :(
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 07, 2022, 09:26:18 PM
This is about the effect of Ukraine’s targeting of ammunition depots-

http://kyivindependent.com/national/1234
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 08, 2022, 04:57:27 AM
Another orc ammo depot hit at 1:00 this morning.


This one was at Shaktersk,Donbas...about 50km behind the orc lines.


Continuous detonations for 5 hours afterwards...with parts of the area having to be evacuated.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 08, 2022, 02:20:09 PM
Imagine, dear gentle readers, that Pootin was RIGHT about the West…
so after Boris Johnson is out, Londongrad’s gonna get some major “influx” fer sure!!

Russians will figure out ways to influence the next Republican attempts to make major political gains
because based on recent congressional voting, the far right congress (those with MAJOR ties to Trump)
all voted AGAINST such aid!!!

so this aid could all go away
with just a few “elections”
where the price of oil and gas, is gonna be one the right’s major issues
here in the USA we’ll also stoke bible thumpers and gun nuts into attacking “the left” as well
the LEFT, i.e. people who basically just want freedom that the right takes for granted, cuz they’re WHITE CHRISTIANS
vrs the attempts by white christian right wingers at repression of that freedom
combined into a voting block of ANGRY, WHITE CHRISTIANS
protesting FreeDumb

after drinking up all the Covid Kool-Aid, now you're all THIRSTY AGAIN?
day-yam!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 09, 2022, 04:47:33 AM
Two more orc ammo depots destroyed last night.


One in Khartsyzsk in Donbas and the other in Kadivka,Luhansk.


This morning another orc ammo depot was destroyed in Chernobaevka,Kherson.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 09, 2022, 05:45:36 AM
After the arrival of the Ukrainian Artillery men in the UK to learn how to operate the new western artillery and missile systems they'll be supplied with,the first cohort of Ukrainian volunteer troops have now arrived at four different locations here.


Up to 10k troops will be trained over the next five months in weapons handling,battlefield first aid,fieldcraft,patrol tactics and the law of armed conflict.


AK variant assault rifles are being supplied for their training,as that's what they'll be fighting the orcs with.


The UK is also gifting each soldier with Helmets,body armour,eye protection,ear protection,pelvic protection,individual first-aid kits,field uniforms and boots,cold and wet weather clothing,Bergens,day sacks,webbing,ponchos,sleeping bags and entrenching tools.


Sky News was talking to some of them,and when one of the British trainers was interviewed he said "We'd rather be in Ukraine with them as we consider them our brothers in arms ".


New PM take note.


Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has announced he will not run for being the new PM as he wants to focus on his current job....here's a man who knows what's the priority for our country...and the World.


Pity our leftie media and the Tory party didn't think about that before forcing Boris out.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 10, 2022, 06:14:40 AM
Local sources inform that there were two Ukrainian rocket attacks this morning on an orc military base ,used by Rosgvardia,in Kherson on Pestylia street.


The first hit was at 5am,followed by another at 10am.


The orcs are screaming from under the rubble according to locals.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 10, 2022, 06:50:16 PM
An interesting article-

http://english.nv.ua/opinion/can-ukraine-win-ukraine-news-russia-war-against-ukraine-opinion-50255458.html
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on July 10, 2022, 11:37:32 PM
Interesting video about how the Ukrainians have been hitting the ammunition
depot's

http://youtu.be/EMEpxX7rS5I
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 11, 2022, 12:52:54 AM
2tall,

Precision weapons have beneficial side effects.

We now see high-value targets being destroyed like ammunition storage areas. Next in line (if not already) will be command and control structures along with communications.

For RU soldiers on the ground, this is discouraging, but they are still able to roam the occupied areas pretty much freely.  This will change, however, as more and more high-accuracy weapons enter UA, allowing smaller units to be targeted within the occupied areas.  They will start to feel like sitting ducks.  The psychological effect will be devastating as more troop-level units get picked off relatively quickly and with minimal risk to UA forces.

It is pretty interesting to see how all this is evolving.  Even allowing RU to occupy some territory can be to UA's advantage.  RU artillery is only effective for short distances.  If pushed back beyond their targeting range by HIMARS and other very accurate weapons, they rapidly lose their value.

Intel, accuracy, and logistics - as these capabilities build on the UA side, offensive action is more feasible and effective, enough to contain RU and take back control over some areas, even up to 50 km from the RU border before winter hits.

At the same time, more anti-aircraft/drone/missile defenses are being added to the mix, further reducing the possibility of RU advances.

If the west can keep up the pace supplying UA, I suspect things may stabilize into a stalemate at near 2014 status quo towards the end of the year.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on July 11, 2022, 10:24:34 AM
For RU soldiers on the ground, this is discouraging, but they are still able to roam the occupied areas pretty much freely.

When they try to stage fuel and ammunition in forward occupied areas
they are doing so in sight of people who don't love them or want them
to succeed.

Is it a huge surprise that the Ukraine artillery team tends to know
where the fuel and ammunition are stored? I would think that Team
Russia would prefer keep those locations undisclosed.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 11, 2022, 11:34:23 AM
99% of Russia’s territorial gains came from the first week of the war
in 4.5 months Russia has as many KIAs as the US had during three years of korea

Russian economy and standard of living will shrink by 8% per yr, for every year the war and sanctions go on

who are the winners

WE ARE!!!

let Russia bleed its military and economy and reap a Ukrainian wasteland as its reward
Ukraine already has over a 750 billion dollar repair bill
who’s gonna pay?

Meanwhile, we got hundreds of billions of Russian money
that we can hand out to the corporations who lost their Russian assets from sanctions
Exxon/Mobile will get at LEAST a BILLION
this connection to Russia was WHY the President of Exxon/Mobile
became Trump’s first sec of state
Rex Tillerson, in the first place, the “biggest deal” in WORLD HISTORY
and it evaporated!!!

bottom line, totally in our interests to do EXACTLY just as we’re doing
feeding the opposite side, just ENOUGH to maintain the stalemate
and let EACH SIDE bleed the OTHER as much as possible
without ANY military loss risk for our side

side benefit, thriving arms industry

THIS is the optimal strategy FOR US to pursue....
it sure sucks to be A Ukrainian or Russian though
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on July 11, 2022, 08:58:40 PM

Is it a huge surprise that the Ukraine artillery team tends to know
where the fuel and ammunition are stored? I would think that Team
Russia would prefer keep those locations undisclosed.
In Girkins' words:

The enemy continues to "nightmare" the rear depots and command posts of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the Armed Forces of the LDNR. Yesterday, another warehouse was destroyed in Shakhtyorsk (it is still burning and detonating, judging by the reports).In most cases - the successes of an enemy of this kind are based on the OUTSTANDING sloppiness of the COMMAND - who did not consider it necessary to disguise or elementary security measures. Warehouses were created without any regard for the enemy's space and air reconnaissance, crowded, without the construction of protective structures (and / or the use of numerous existing ones) - i.e. "How convenient, tyap-blunder."Of course, to justify our military, we can say that they "did not expect the NVO to go into war." But the fact that in the fifth month of the war in the units and subunits of the RF Armed Forces, even elementary camouflage nets are almost completely absent (whereas they are in many units of the LDNR Armed Forces supplied by volunteers) - only it deserves to be brought to the military tribunal of the entire leadership of the Logistics Service of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 12, 2022, 01:54:11 AM
Another orc ammo depot hit in the early hours of this morning ..this one at Nova Kakhovka,Kherson oblast.


Massive  secondary explosions and after-shocks have ensued.


A previous strike on Kherson,at Pestylia street,i posted about on here two days ago, resulted in more than 150 orcs being killed,including another General. >:D


A large white container lorry,with 200 painted on it's side,was photographed taking the bodies away. :)


In response ,with panic-stricken desperation to improve their troops morale, the orcs claim to have blown up a large Ukrainian ammo depot with three cruise missiles in Radushne that held 155 mm artillery shells and HIMARS rockets.


A video of the aftermath of the strike shows no large clouds of black smoke and there are no secondary explosions at all...which knowing the orcs probably means they hit a school or shopping mall instead..their normal tactic.


Reminds me of when the orcs put out a video claiming that they'd destroyed two parked HIMARS,when in actuality the missile missed it's target,if indeed they were HIMARS, and hit a tree instead  ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 12, 2022, 04:19:32 AM
Apparently this is from the Russian separatists Telegram .


"There was an explosion in Kherson.They used HIMARS.There's nothing that can be done about it ? And there's only 8 HIMARS and they've already fucked us up.What'll happen next ? "


Apparently there is absolute mayhem and shock among Russian military bloggers and propagandists.


Speaking of which rwd123 has gone a bit quiet. ;D


No wonder Putler has called his Kremlin Duma back from their just started holidays for an emergency meeting on 15th July.


With their economy hurtling into the abyss and their military facing defeat,If they have any sense they'll capitulate .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 12, 2022, 07:55:59 AM
Another orc ammo depo hit today..now cooking off nicely with multiple detonations.


This one was at the DZTO Plant ,petrovsky district,Donetsk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2022, 02:28:53 PM
Apparently this is from the Russian separatists Telegram .


"There was an explosion in Kherson.They used HIMARS.There's nothing that can be done about it ? And there's only 8 HIMARS and they've already fucked us up.What'll happen next ? "


Apparently there is absolute mayhem and shock among Russian military bloggers and propagandists.


Speaking of which rwd123 has gone a bit quiet. ;D


No wonder Putler has called his Kremlin Duma back from their just started holidays for an emergency meeting on 15th July.


With their economy hurtling into the abyss and their military facing defeat,If they have any sense they'll capitulate .

Apparently Russia may be trying to counter by buying drones from Iran:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/iran-russia-drones-ukraine-war-white-house-b1011690.html

Looks like it may just be a stop gap tactic to try and find a way to fill the gap as its own artillery and armaments get destroyed. Theoretically Russia has a lot of men to call upon so more than Ukraine. Just a case of whether they are willing to turn up and how hard Russia will push to try to get them to the front. So at the moment its a bit unknown how much Russia has left in the tank. However with HIMARS and the rest now hitting them hard I reckon it's going to get really hard for Russia to advance much more. That's real good news of course so just a question if Russia will start getting exhausted of willing men and armaments soon and fold in.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 12, 2022, 02:50:19 PM
Another HIMAR strike tonight,on Luhansk an impressive 85+km behind the front line.


Multiple detonations kicking-off in the blaze,so presumably yet another orc ammo depot.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2022, 06:15:36 AM
Another HIMAR strike tonight,on Luhansk an impressive 85+km behind the front line.


Multiple detonations kicking-off in the blaze,so presumably yet another orc ammo depot.

That's great news CB, looks like the HIMARS are already having a big impact on Russia's ability to fight in Ukraine as this article demonstrates:

http://gagadget.com/en/war/146432-himars-in-action-russians-have-dramatically-reduced-the-number-of-shelling-due-to-the-loss-of-ammunition-depots/

So makes sense to hit all their ammunition depots as without ammunition their artillery etc are useless, far quicker and easier than taking out all their artillery pieces one by one so a good strategy. If this momentum is kept up then they'll likely be a big turn around with the Orcs falling back in the coming days & weeks I reckon.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on July 15, 2022, 06:53:05 AM

Looks like it may just be a stop gap tactic to try and find a way to fill the gap as its own artillery and armaments get destroyed. Theoretically Russia has a lot of men to call upon so more than Ukraine. Just a case of whether they are willing to turn up and how hard Russia will push to try to get them to the front. So at the moment its a bit unknown how much Russia has left in the tank. However with HIMARS and the rest now hitting them hard I reckon it's going to get really hard for Russia to advance much more. That's real good news of course so just a question if Russia will start getting exhausted of willing men and armaments soon and fold in.



They have 6 HIMARS to cover an area of several hundred miles. They need
at least a hundred more, preferably 300 more of them. They are getting the
short range rockets because the West is afraid to give them the long legged
stuff.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 15, 2022, 08:11:32 AM


They have 6 HIMARS to cover an area of several hundred miles. They need
at least a hundred more, preferably 300 more of them. They are getting the
short range rockets because the West is afraid to give them the long legged
stuff.

Probably a little bit of software 'reprogramming' and those same rockets will travel 300 miles.

Then, when Russia screams, it can be said that "Russia bombed Russian areas themselves."  I think we have heard similar stories before.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 15, 2022, 09:03:53 AM
They have 6 HIMARS to cover an area of several hundred miles.

Thought was 8 so far.  Soon to be 12, and training is ongoing for more.

A few M270's as well
http://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-united-kingdom-and-norway-agreed-to-transfer-the-m270-mlrs-to-ukraine/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 16, 2022, 06:03:12 AM
The Ukrainian Special Unit "Kraken " ARE something special.


They use Artillery and special ops to go behind enemy lines.


I've seen a few videos of them in action....and the orcs are terrified of them.


There's some drone footage on the latest one taken three days ago in Bilohorivka,Luhansk region where the orcs see them and just literally run away.


Some orcs are captured and i'm surprised are kept alive,but i guess they're needed for POW exchanges.


This video can be seen on BlueSauron@Blue_Sauron,which is on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2022, 04:35:09 PM

bottom line, totally in our interests to do EXACTLY just as we’re doing
feeding the opposite side, just ENOUGH to maintain the stalemate
and let EACH SIDE bleed the OTHER as much as possible
without ANY military loss risk for our side


side benefit, thriving arms industry

THIS is the optimal strategy FOR US to pursue....
it sure sucks to be A Ukrainian or Russian though

This I totally agree with in terms of what's happening and thought it would be the case from day 1. It's a nasty thing to do but it's not my doing and so far as stopping Russia is concerned, likely necessary. I do tend to see though that the west is playing a tactical game, drawing it out like you say by just giving Ukraine enough weapons to counter, Russia gets weakened incredibly for many years if not decades to come, Ukraine, an unfortunate pawn in this game.

End result for Russia is a smashed economy that's too weak to produce any armaments or sustain an army of any note. Most of its Soviet armaments destroyed and the rest too rusting & unreliable getting hopelessly obsolete and down trodden.

Ukraine meanwhile will be a very dirt poor nation, back to 90s post break up USSR times if not worse. EU looks like it may already be backtracking on aid package and I wouldn't expect anything from the EU they will wash their hands of any idea of Ukraine joining them when they see the state of the country at the end of all of this.

Like you say Krim the ones gaining the most out of all of this are the arms manufacturers & dealers. It's where those in power will have a hand in. All of the free stuff we've been sending Ukraine will just be stuff that will have sat around or not seen any conflict anyway - it's stuff paying around in military camps that doesn't need replacing if economically not wished to do so.

Anyhow both Ukraine & Russia are locked in now for the duration however long that will be. Russia has an almost inexhaustible amount of cannon fodder to throw at Ukraine and is looking to counter the HIMARS by using drones. The HIMARS already have done a lot of their job taking out ammunition dumps that will suck on Russia's resources and ability to advance further. Both are fighting over a piece of land that neither will give up so they'll be locked in at it until one side eventually has no choice but to concede, that could take quite some time.

In the meantime it's the unfortunate innocent folk that suffer and it truly is them I feel sorry for particularly Ukrainian civilians and those called into the armies to lose their lives as nothing but pawns in the game. Russia for sure has made a particularly bone headed decision to invade Ukraine and it's one they are going to come to regret I reckon even if they did end up taking Ukraine like you say they would just be taking an economically burdensome economic wasteland.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LAman on July 16, 2022, 06:51:11 PM


They have 6 HIMARS………….

Wrong, Ukraine has 8 HIMARS, and by end of month 4 more as BC mentioned.
Anyway, what is more important is type of rocket supplied. US is sending the
M 30-31 rockets. Since these rockets can be fired from HIMARS or M270 systems
there are much more systems than thought of. If a/the ATacMC rocket is sent then the bridge is history.
I found it interesting that Russia is finding it hard to recognize the HIMAR rocket coming since it’s speed is close to a grad missile.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 17, 2022, 12:37:34 AM
LAman,

Probably not opportune to supply ATACMS.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/mgm-140-family.jpg

Aside from being long-range, cluster munitions are out, and BAT is good for large supply lines, etc.  With both sides using much of the same equipment, may be tough to discriminate. Would have been great for those long columns in the early part of the war, but I doubt such will be forthcoming with RU having learned what happens when they do such.

I'd prefer more air/anti-missile defense, and I believe such is in the works already.

btw I'm not an expert on this stuff, and just applying some logical thinking.

I am quite confident type and amount of equipment being sent are addressing the need.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 17, 2022, 03:41:46 AM
Ukrainian Intelligence says the orcs have used 70% of their stock of high precision missiles..


No high precision missiles means no Nukes.



So either the orcs stop firing them into Ukrainian shopping malls ,schools and apartment blocks or they'll have run out in two months and Ukraine and NATO can just march into Moscow,drag Putler and his Duma out of the Kremlin and throw them all into the Red Square followed by giving them a good kicking...making sure the whole World see's what happens to despots.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 17, 2022, 03:47:18 AM
Chelseaboy,

They have already fired a ton of 'em, that's for sure.

30% still represents a significant amount.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: RussianWomenOnly on July 17, 2022, 04:15:22 AM
Russia needs to be stopped here and now. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 17, 2022, 06:23:17 AM
Chelseaboy,

They have already fired a ton of 'em, that's for sure.

30% still represents a significant amount.


Well IF Ukrainian intelligence is correct the orcs have used up  14% of them per month so, like i said ,if they continue using them up at the same rate they'll have none left in two months time.


I'm sure the Ukrainians will find good use of the orc filtration camps for Putler and his Duma  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 17, 2022, 08:18:44 AM
I think there is a lot of over optimism here.

I suspect the Russians have ability to produce a lot of new missiles, tanks and all sorts of military equipment.

Sure I understand the bit about chips being embargoed, but I think they have a lot of those in inventory also.

Remember that in WWII the Russians (Soviets) moved entire plants over to the Urals and beyond to continue production.

I am sure they know how to solve current production problems also.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 17, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
This is a nice article on Donbas residents.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/18/they-have-come-to-destroy-us-ukrainians-on-the-frontline-in-donbas
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 18, 2022, 07:39:20 AM
I think there is a lot of over optimism here.

I suspect the Russians have ability to produce a lot of new missiles, tanks and all sorts of military equipment.

Sure I understand the bit about chips being embargoed, but I think they have a lot of those in inventory also.

Remember that in WWII the Russians (Soviets) moved entire plants over to the Urals and beyond to continue production.

I am sure they know how to solve current production problems also.


Bloomberg.


Putin says sanctions cause "Colossol " problems in Russian tech industry.Russian Dictator Vladimir Putin told officials during a video conference on strategic development goals that Russia is facing "colossal problems " in the high-tech sector due to sanctions.


Missiles come under high-tech.Sounds like you're more confident about the orcs solving their rapidly declining precision missile stock than he is.


There's a reason why the orcs are now having to use S-300 SAM's for surface to surface attacks.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 18, 2022, 09:21:54 AM
Putin is pretty much betting that the U.S. midterm elections will undermine Biden and that by 2024, the United States will be in a great big mess!
and after that, support for Ukraine collapses, in the same way it was edited out of the 2016 Republican Platform.  Look at ONLY Republicans who VOTED AGAINST Ukraine lend-lease

the giant European energy companies mostly in Germany and France
are putting political pressure on their countries politicians to keep them in favor of pro-Russian fossil fuels

just follow the money
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 18, 2022, 10:06:40 AM

Bloomberg.


Putin says sanctions cause "Colossol " problems in Russian tech industry.Russian Dictator Vladimir Putin told officials during a video conference on strategic development goals that Russia is facing "colossal problems " in the high-tech sector due to sanctions.


Missiles come under high-tech.Sounds like you're more confident about the orcs solving their rapidly declining precision missile stock than he is.


There's a reason why the orcs are now having to use S-300 SAM's for surface to surface attacks.

Chelseaboy,

I'm with ML that RU can maintain the production of weapons that kill.  At what level of production, I don't know, but best to not underestimate.  Accuracy doesn't seem to be of much interest to them.  Chips are easily smuggled as well http://www.reuters.com/world/how-military-technology-reaches-russia-breach-us-export-controls-2022-04-29/  Even if they can't get the chips, there are ways to adapt using chips from some common household electronic items like computers, gaming units or even modern hifi, all readily available on e-bay and such.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 18, 2022, 10:30:12 AM
BC,


     For sure the orcs can use chips from common household products.


They've been doing that with their military aircraft...that's why an orc cargo plane and two SU-25 orc fighter jets all fell out of the sky in Russia within the space of a week around a month ago...one of the SU-25's hitting power cables on the way down.


Since those mishaps the orc airforce has been noticeable by it's relative absence in Ukraine.


Around 25% of the Iskander missiles being fired from Belgorad are landing in....Belgorad.


I wonder why ?


I'm sure the orcs will be happy to fire an Iskander missile with a nuclear warhead attached.knowing it has a chip from a gaming unit  added


Who knows where it mind end up ?


What a future game masterpiece that would be " Fire an orc nuclear missile from Belgorad and watch it hit Moscow..just like the orcs did ".


I'm sure it would be a best-seller ..except in Russia  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 18, 2022, 10:56:00 AM
Putin is pretty much betting that the U.S. midterm elections will undermine Biden and that by 2024, the United States will be in a great big mess!
and after that, support for Ukraine collapses, in the same way it was edited out of the 2016 Republican Platform.  Look at ONLY Republicans who VOTED AGAINST Ukraine lend-lease

the giant European energy companies mostly in Germany and France
are putting political pressure on their countries politicians to keep them in favor of pro-Russian fossil fuels

just follow the money


Krim,
 
      I'm sure he's betting on things going in his favour before 2024.


He's going to use energy ,and in particular Gas ,as a weapon this coming winter.


Will the European public hold-up in their support for Ukraine if they're freezing and Ukraine won't make concessions to Russia about the land the orcs have stolen ?


You can just see angry German and French mums phoning into TV and Radio phone-in's "My poor kids have to go to bed at 4pm it's so cold, all because those Ukrainians won't let Russia keep the Donbas.Why should my kids suffer because of those pesky Ukrainians " ?


Those same dopey mums won't think about what will happen in the future to their "poor kids" if Russia keeps the Donbas.


I reckon Ukraine is aware of this and this has accelerated their attempt to get Kherson back before winter sets in.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 18, 2022, 06:06:25 PM
The orcs shot down one of their own SU-34's whilst trying to hit a HIMARS missile in the Alchevsk city area in occupied eastern Ukraine.


Yes they really are that incompetent.


It's only there superior numbers that have kept them in the fight so far.



The pilot was captured by Ukrainians,just to rub salt into the wound.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on July 18, 2022, 10:50:04 PM
Holy shit... and there goes Europe! Hope you have stocked up on warm blankets Pat!

http://www.zerohedge.com/energy/gazprom-declares-force-majeure-will-halt-gas-flows-germany-indefinitely
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2022, 11:12:41 PM
Don’t crow so quickly.

http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/7824752/europe-inks-energy-deals-sidesteps-russia/?cs=5461
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on July 19, 2022, 03:18:31 AM
Don’t crow so quickly.

http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/7824752/europe-inks-energy-deals-sidesteps-russia/?cs=5461
Who is crowing? This is MAJOR news. Russia has effectively declared war on Germany. The gloves are off. This is a MASSIVE escalation of the conflict.

There's apparently a major announcement coming out of Russia in a few days too. In other words - further escalation is on the cards. We are effectively in WW3 and things just got a lot hotter (and colder).

http://youtu.be/4mmrasoAjLc
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 19, 2022, 04:05:57 AM
RWD123

It is only a matter of time until Europe re-orients sources and bolsters other forms of energy, which is actually a good thing.  Putin has only accelerated de-coupling RU from the world economy, relegated to selling RU energy at a considerable discount.  China is not stupid, and neither is India and other countries.

In the history books, this will be a small blip in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, Putin is on a destructive path, trying to do anything that adversely affects countries not aligned with them.  Like a man with a noose around his neck, he will wiggle the wildest towards the end, knowing that he tied his own Hangman's knot.

Time is not on his side.

It is not about how much economic pain the EU can afford but more about how long RU citizens and allies will agree to be pushed back into the dark ages.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 19, 2022, 06:58:48 AM
Holy shit... and there goes Europe! Hope you have stocked up on warm blankets Pat!

http://www.zerohedge.com/energy/gazprom-declares-force-majeure-will-halt-gas-flows-germany-indefinitely

Germany/Europe doesn't need warm blankets.  They need tissues for all the green/left wing crybabies.

The only reason that Germany turned to Russia for gas supplies is because after Fukushima, Germany mothballed all its nuclear power plants. (with the eventual goal of dismantling them, but closing a reactor will take decades.)  If Germany wants energy, within 3-6 months, they can have their nuclear plants back online.

However, using nuclear energy doesn't fit the narrative with all the green left wingers.  If push comes to shove, I think we will see Germany bring their nuclear plants back online.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2022, 07:44:33 AM
Holy shit... and there goes Europe! Hope you have stocked up on warm blankets Pat!

http://www.zerohedge.com/energy/gazprom-declares-force-majeure-will-halt-gas-flows-germany-indefinitely (http://www.zerohedge.com/energy/gazprom-declares-force-majeure-will-halt-gas-flows-germany-indefinitely)

 
Energies prices' are multiplying, and the next winter will be worse. That's the concern with inflation in all the EU zone.
Of course, since February every country tries to find out new partners.
 
Personally, I have two ways to heat my house gas and electricity but I probably will make some modifications to minimize my consumption next month, before October. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 19, 2022, 08:38:22 AM
Putin says sanctions cause "Colossol " problems in Russian tech industry.  Russian Dictator Vladimir Putin told officials during a video conference on strategic development goals that Russia is facing "colossal problems " in the high-tech sector due to sanctions.


Sounds like you're [ML]more confident about the orcs solving their rapidly declining precision missile stock than he is.

I don't know for sure, of course, but good chance that Putler is trying to get the west to let down its own effort . . . by thinking Russia is on the ropes.

Rope-a-dope process.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 19, 2022, 09:48:43 AM
Germany/Europe doesn't need warm blankets.  They need tissues for all the green/left wing crybabies.

The only reason that Germany turned to Russia for gas supplies is because after Fukushima, Germany mothballed all its nuclear power plants. (with the eventual goal of dismantling them, but closing a reactor will take decades.)  If Germany wants energy, within 3-6 months, they can have their nuclear plants back online.

However, using nuclear energy doesn't fit the narrative with all the green left wingers.  If push comes to shove, I think we will see Germany bring their nuclear plants back online.

Bee Farmer,

Your political views are clouding your vision.

Germany decided to wind down their nuclear plants after Chernobyl, and not Fukushima.  They have a few coal plants that were mothballed and may be pulled back into service. 

Their renewable energy generation is among the highest in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany#/media/File:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg

Yes, industry and a good portion of households use gas for heating, but already programs are underway to reduce that usage.  No one will freeze in their homes, but yes turning down thermostats will be mandated.

The damage will remain mainly economic, but even that beats WWIII.  They are buckling up.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/germanys-summer-package-to-focus-on-heating-sector-revamp/

Germany is better prepared than the US would be in the same circumstances.  Like RU, the US is simply lucky to be sitting on a lot of fossil fuels.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 19, 2022, 10:08:52 AM
Ukrainians becoming very bullish now...they must read my posts on here.  :)


Their Deputy Minister of Defence Gavrilov said that Russia must give up Crimea if it wants to continue existing as a state.


In the meantime HIMARS have hit the bridge connecting Kherson to Crimea.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 19, 2022, 11:31:02 AM
In the meantime HIMARS have hit the bridge connecting Kherson to Crimea.

Probably target practice and warning for all those that cross.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 19, 2022, 01:34:53 PM
Who is crowing? This is MAJOR news. Russia has effectively declared war on Germany. The gloves are off. This is a MASSIVE escalation of the conflict.

There's apparently a major announcement coming out of Russia in a few days too. In other words - further escalation is on the cards. We are effectively in WW3 and things just got a lot hotter (and colder).

Talk about hyperbole. 

Germany was already moving to cutting all Russian gas by this winter.  So I wouldn't exactly call this a "massive" escalation.

We are not in WW3.  Russia can make a lot of trouble, thanks to its natural resources, but really, it's a bit player on the world stage, with a leader (and populace) with a massive inferiority complex.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 19, 2022, 01:41:09 PM
An orc SU-35 shot down by Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile today ,whilst attempting to attack Ukrainian ground attack aircraft this afternoon in the Nova Kakhovka area of Kherson province.


Da Da Da Another one bites the dust  ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 19, 2022, 02:48:57 PM

Germany was already moving to cutting all Russian gas by this winter.  So I wouldn't exactly call this a "massive" escalation.


IIRC was for drawing down oil from RU, with replacing RU gas taking a bit longer.  I may be wrong, though.  In any case, it's a short-term issue for the EU but will remain a long-term problem for RU.  Prices will remain high for a couple of years until supplies balance out again and more renewables take over.

As for the remainder of your post, spot on.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 19, 2022, 03:18:25 PM
Some have posted that China and India will be able to buy raw  materials including oil and gas from Russia at a discount.

Why a discount?

In my view, China and India has the need to buy virtually all the oil and gas available in the world.

All Russia needs to do, is stop the flow to China and India for awhile, and the price to them would move up to market price.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on July 19, 2022, 03:31:59 PM
Energies prices' are multiplying, and the next winter will be worse. That's the concern with inflation in all the EU zone.
Bingo! This is not about cold houses, it's about the collapse of Europe -
 the asynchronous economic warfare in response to sanctions.

The EU relies on German industry. It's about to be hammered into oblivion. Will not be surprised if the German government falls in the next six months.

The Euro Zone is essentially bankrupt. It takes a form of cheque kiting between governments to keep it afloat. How is Deutsche Bank going to hold up with waves of insolvencies?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 19, 2022, 09:32:02 PM
Bee Farmer,

Your political views are clouding your vision.

Germany decided to wind down their nuclear plants after Chernobyl, and not Fukushima.  They have a few coal plants that were mothballed and may be pulled back into service. 


Nonsense BS.

They did not make any meaningful steps to closing down the power plants until after Fukushima. (They closed a reactor in 2003, and one in 2005. That's immaterial.)

Following Fukushima, Germany has permanently shut down eight of its 17 reactors and pledged to close the rest by the end of 2022.[2] In late 2021 all but three of the remaining German nuclear power plants were shut down.
As of 2022, Italy is the only country that has permanently closed all of its formerly functioning nuclear plants, with Germany phasing out the remaining 3 plants by the end of the year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on July 19, 2022, 09:47:10 PM
Bingo! This is not about cold houses, it's about the collapse of Europe -
 the asynchronous economic warfare in response to sanctions.
http://youtu.be/h51qGjHbmr0

Apparently energy prices are going to rise in (parts of) Poland by 300%! That is going to destroy manufacturing and household budgets. Europe is in BIG trouble. Good luck funding a foreign war when the peasants are revolting. Governments will need to fund a civil war first.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: northkape on July 20, 2022, 12:17:32 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany#/media/File:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg

IIRC was for drawing down oil from RU, with replacing RU gas taking a bit longer.  I may be wrong, though.  In any case, it's a short-term issue for the EU but will remain a long-term problem for RU.  Prices will remain high for a couple of years until supplies balance out again and more renewables take over.


Pure Hogwash
Wiki is for electricity, not energy,,,,, majority of gas is used / burned directly, not converted to electricity. The new green "Energiewende" has been a complete disaster for Germany. Making them more dependent on gas than ever before. Building / installing new windmills has almost completely halted / stopped in the last two years. For a reason, it doesn't work as expected. Renewable energy in Germany last year amounts to between 15-18 % of total energy consumption, depending on how it is calculated. The new gas pipeline NorthStream2 that was set to open when Russia invaded, was supposed to more than double the amount of gas to Europe for the next 10-20 years.

This disaster is seriously hurting us here in Norway also. As we are connected to the madness, by newly built transfer cables, and idiotic contracts, that makes our electricity price dependent on European prices.(stupid political decisions that didn't foresee possible consequences) In previous years, electricity here was very cheap, as we have an abundance of clean hydro electricity. Even letting enormous amount of water bypass the turbines every year.   

This is an auto translate from yesterdays financial news:

Scenario # 1: A full reboot
In this scenario, Gazprom will resume the flow of natural gas over the next few days at almost full capacity. This in turn could lead to a rally in US and European equities and help strengthen the euro.

Scenario No. 2: Partial reboot
The flow of natural gas is resumed, but with reduced volumes. It depends on how much the gas is reduced by. If it is reduced to 40 percent of capacity, it is not good, but it is even worse with only 20 percent. This will mean that the markets will be tense while waiting for when and if the flow of gas returns in full.

Scenario No. 3: No reboot, but positive signs
In this scenario, the flow of gas to Europe will not resume this week, but there are still signs that it will happen in the not too distant future. This will cause equities and the euro to fall, while credit and bank equities will falter.

Scenario # 4: No reboot and no sign
There will be no gas to Europe from Russia through Nord Stream this week, nor will there be any indication of when anything will happen. This is the worst case scenario. Then stocks will fall globally, the euro will fall and credit will be deferred. Bank shares are particularly vulnerable in this case.

Predicts recession and stock plunge
Should there be a worst-case scenario, where gas remains switched off, Deutsche Bank expects that the rationing of gas will lead to a German GDP fall of between 5 and 6 percent in 2023. BNP Paribas believes a complete halt in gas supplies from Russia will lead until Euro Stoxx 50 falls 20 percent or more, with several quarters of European recession.
While the Swiss major bank UBS predicts that if Russia closes all pipelines to Europe, and not just Nord Stream, it could send the euro to 0.90 against the dollar, the Stoxx 600 index will fall another 20 percent and corporate revenues will fall by 15 percent.
The last bank CNBC spoke to was JPMorgan Chase. The Americans believe that if the Russians close the gas supplies to Europe, the movements in European corporate bonds will be greater than during the first wave of the pandemic in 2020.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2022, 12:47:08 AM
About 13% of Germany’s electricity is generated with natural gas. But the majority of natural gas is used for heating.

Where I live, electricity was coal generated, and cheap. The socialist provincial government expedited the banning of coal (which was happening over a longer period federally). End result was payouts to companies equalling 1/7 of our annual budget. Our electricity is now 100% generated by natural gas.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 20, 2022, 12:57:56 AM
Nonsense BS.

They did not make any meaningful steps to closing down the power plants until after Fukushima. (They closed a reactor in 2003, and one in 2005. That's immaterial.)


It's not immaterial. Meaningful steps predated Fukushima.

http://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-germanys-nuclear-phase-out



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 20, 2022, 01:45:15 AM

Pure Hogwash
Wiki is for electricity, not energy,,,,, majority of gas is used / burned directly, not converted to electricity. The new green "Energiewende" has been a complete disaster for Germany. Making them more dependent on gas than ever before. Building / installing new windmills has almost completely halted / stopped in the last two years. For a reason, it doesn't work as expected. Renewable energy in Germany last year amounts to between 15-18 % of total energy consumption, depending on how it is calculated. The new gas pipeline NorthStream2 that was set to open when Russia invaded, was supposed to more than double the amount of gas to Europe for the next 10-20 years.


Obviously you focused on only one aspect of my post.  Maybe re-read to get the full gist of what I posted. 

Yes, new installations of windmills has been reduced the past years, but has not stopped. 

Quote
Across Germany, 311 new wind turbines were approved in the first half of the year. This is a slight step backwards compared to the first half of 2021 (321). Compared to "strong" wind power years, the regression is even considerable. Up to three times as many permits were issued in 2014 (895) or 2015 (699) as this year.

http://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/swr/windkraftausbau-103.html

Do take the time to read the full article.

The drop over the last years can also be explained by low energy prices and fewer government incentives, along with other ongoing crisis like COVID and shipping/supply disruptions, and increased costs.  This is likely to change quickly and .gov is likely to step in.

Quote
For a reason, it doesn't work as expected.

Now, this is hogwash. They work exactly as expected.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 20, 2022, 03:42:44 AM
It's not immaterial. Meaningful steps predated Fukushima.

http://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-germanys-nuclear-phase-out

All talk and no action.

Talk is cheap.  What did they actually do?  They closed 2 plants, in '03 and '05.  That's called immaterial.

Russia said they were not going to invade Ukraine either.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 20, 2022, 04:59:31 AM
All talk and no action.

Talk is cheap.  What did they actually do?

The article describes in detail what they actually did.  Turning the last switch was only the last part of a process that started well before Fukushima.

The rest is only your opinion, seemingly looking for someone to blame.

As for my opinion, take it or leave it:

The fuel price for automobiles went up approximately 50 cents since 2019 in much of the EU, around 25-30%. Yeah, folks here don't like it but take it in stride with little protest. More folks are carpooling and using mass transit, but still not as affected as the US, where prices have risen 80% in the same timeframe with few interested in carpooling or mass transit and more interested in complaining and playing a blame game.

I lived in Germany in the '70s and remember the oil crisis back then (when most folks heated with heating oil).  Thermometers were turned down, and on Sundays, cars, boats, and planes remained parked.  On weekdays only odd or even plated cars were driven.  IIRC some good came out of it. Cars got even more fuel efficient, and most trucks no longer drive on Sunday. IMO the EU will go through a tough period, somewhat similar, but we'll survive and come out better in the end.

I was also in Germany in the mid-'80s to late '90s, pre, and post-Chornobyl, and when the Iron Curtain fell, all tumultuous times.  They'll adapt and get through this crisis as well while US owners of gas-guzzling cars, pickups, and SUVs cry at the pump instead of finding better ways of getting around and investing in mass transit that appeals and is not viewed simply as 'that's what poor people do.'

In many ways, I feel folks in the EU are more resilient to crisis due to the same things you object to based on inane political and ideological fantasies that limit rather than expand freedom.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 20, 2022, 05:23:20 AM
Latest Russian explanation for why they can't beat the Ukrainians.


It's because the Americans are injecting Ukrainian soldiers with secret serum that gives them special powers and turns them into monsters.


Really.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 20, 2022, 07:16:51 AM
Would love to check out the source of that Chelseaboy!  Have a link?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2022, 07:49:07 AM
Here you go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-lawmakers-tout-baseless-claims-ukrainian-super-soldiers-2022-7?amp
Title: Super soldiers - - - Himars
Post by: ML on July 20, 2022, 07:54:09 AM
I think those super soldiers are all named Himars.

US will send 4 more Himars to Ukraine this week to add to the 12 already sent.

- - - - - - - -

The U.S. will be sending Ukraine four additional High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) in another security assistance package to be announced later this week, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said Wednesday, 20 July 2022.

The systems in the upcoming package would bring the number of launchers the U.S. has sent to 16. The U.S. has sent 12 thus far, most recently sending four in a $400 million assistance package announced on July 8.

In his remarks, Austin touted other countries that have stepped up their support for Ukraine, such as the United Kingdom sending its own MLRS systems and Poland agreeing to transfer three battalions of 155mm self-propelled howitzers.

The Pentagon chief also thanked Norway for working with the U.S. to transfer two National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems, also known as Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems.

http://thehill.com/policy/3567107-four-more-high-mobility-artillery-rocket-systems-going-to-ukraine-pentagon-chief-says/

- - - - - -

The first HIMARS were sent to Ukraine only near end of June 2022, and they already have turned the tide of the war.

http://theprint.in/world/why-us-supplied-rocket-system-himars-has-become-key-to-ukraines-defence-against-russia/1044346/

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 20, 2022, 08:51:43 AM
After 6 weeks of training in Germany, even little guys are making a big difference.  (click the first link)

http://www.youtube.com/shorts/NjA8zKK7NzU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvDDX4uMTo
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on July 20, 2022, 09:53:28 AM
I totally agree with this article. It was suggested [and ignored] before the invasion ever began.
Quote
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is an inspiring figure. And it is hard not to admire the courageous spirit of the Ukrainian army in their unequal fight against the much more powerful Russian military. But the time has come to seek a negotiated conclusion to the war in Ukraine. And the U.S. must encourage President Zelensky to take seriously the opportunity he has to bring a halt to this bloody conflict.


Otherwise, this war will grind on without end, tens of thousands more innocent civilians will die, and there is a real risk that events spiral out of control with the United States and Russia going to war. Wise leaders in Washington must avert this impending disaster.
Perhaps flush with battlefield successes in March and April, Zelensky has expanded his war aims. No longer content with defending Kiev and Kharkov, he has announced his intention to reconquer Crimea and Donbas. This is a dangerous and provocative escalation of Ukrainian military and political objectives. In fact, it is madness.


Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, arguably a violation of international law. But we must recognize the facts on the ground. Ninety-three percent of Crimean residents voted in favor of annexation. The vast majority of the population is ethnically Russian, and historically Crimea was an integral part of Russia. The people of Crimea would resist a Ukrainian invasion. And Russia would certainly never allow such an invasion to proceed.


  Likewise, the people of Donetsk and Lugansk are resolutely opposed to any forcible reunification with Ukraine. Any attempt to reconquer these territories is futile, a mere fantasy and a foolhardy delusion.


Time is not on Ukraine’s side. It is holding on tenaciously on the Eastern battlefield, but slowly losing more and more ground. NATO and the U.S. are supplying weaponry, but not men. Eventually, losses of personnel will leave the Ukrainian army in a dire predicament, tons of military material but not enough soldiers to deploy them. Prolonging the war will likely result in more Ukrainian losses.
MORE----
http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 20, 2022, 10:12:44 AM
There was another HIMARS strike on the bridge from Kherson to Crimea in the early hours of this morning.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2022, 10:19:58 AM
I totally agree with this article. It was suggested [and ignored] before the invasion ever began.MORE----
http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529

I don’t think one can accept the referendum in Crimea. That said, there probably should be another one, conducted and monitored by international observers, such as the UN.

Only the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk are ethnically Russian. The majority of Donbas is ethnically Ukrainian. So, I think the op-ed is misinformed.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 20, 2022, 10:25:23 AM
I totally agree with this article. It was suggested [and ignored] before the invasion ever began.MORE----
http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529 (http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529)


I haven't read the full article..just the piece shown.


I don't agree with it at all.


It's Ukrainian land and the orcs shouldn't be allowed to steal it...end of.


The people of Crimea and Donbas who prefer to live under orc rule can go and live in Russia...they won't have homes in Donbas soon anyway,with the way their "liberators " are shelling their villages, towns and cities.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 20, 2022, 10:26:10 AM
tf,

Quote
Likewise, the people of Donetsk and Lugansk are resolutely opposed to any forcible reunification with Ukraine. Any attempt to reconquer these territories is futile, a mere fantasy and a foolhardy delusion.

It may be more correct to state, "People in DPR occupied portions of Donetsk Oblast and LPR occupied portions of Luhansk Oblast..." but even that may be a bit iffy.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/residents-of-ukraines-breakaways-recount-short-lived-joy-hope

Many may now feel simply caught in the middle
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 20, 2022, 10:33:13 AM
I don’t think one can accept the referendum in Crimea. That said, there probably should be another one, conducted and monitored by international observers, such as the UN.

Only the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk are ethnically Russian. The majority of Donbas is ethnically Ukrainian. So, I think the op-ed is misinformed.


All the residents who've been ejected from Crimea since the orcs stole it,should be allowed to move back before any such referendum,and the people who took their homes not allowed to vote...and no orcs carrying weapons allowed at the voting sites either.
Title: Peace for our time
Post by: ML on July 20, 2022, 10:58:42 AM
I totally agree with this article. It was suggested [and ignored] before the invasion ever began.MORE----
http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529

Yes, as Chamberlain said, Hitler only wants a small piece of Czechoslovakia because of the ethnic Germans there.

Let him have that, and we will have "Peace for our time."
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2022, 11:19:34 AM
I totally agree with this article. It was suggested [and ignored] before the invasion ever began.MORE----
http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529 (http://townhall.com/columnists/marknuckols/2022/07/20/averting-disaster-in-ukraine-n2610529)


I also note the author of that op-ed lives in Moscow.  That explains his myopic vision.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on July 20, 2022, 12:14:39 PM
I also note the author of that op-ed lives in Moscow.  That explains his myopic vision.
Kill the messenger...but the facts remain. The alternative is more destruction and loss of life. There is no will in the west to engage the Russians. America does not have the leadership required to set up a front in Europe.
 
Yes, as Chamberlain said, Hitler only wants a small piece of Czechoslovakia because of the ethnic Germans there. Let him have that, and we will have "Peace for our time."
Unfortunately...we don't even have Chamberlain caliber people around [sadly]
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2022, 01:16:58 PM
Do you really believe that millions of ethnic Ukrainians living in Donbas, after everything that has happened, would just willingly give up their lands, lands on which their ancestors have lived for centuries, and submit to the plutocratic autocracy known as Russia?


I have relatives living in Russia.  For well over 3 years, they have made it clear that all political discussion is off limits.  They are already afraid.  No such issue with Ukrainians, who have no compunction about complaining about their government.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on July 20, 2022, 01:43:30 PM

The people of Crimea and Donbas who prefer to live under orc rule can go and live in Russia...they won't have homes in Donbas soon anyway,with the way their "liberators " are shelling their villages, towns and cities.
Do you really believe that millions of ethnic Ukrainians living in Donbas, after everything that has happened, would just willingly give up their lands, lands on which their ancestors have lived for centuries, and submit to the plutocratic autocracy known as Russia? I have relatives living in Russia.  For well over 3 years, they have made it clear that all political discussion is off limits.  They are already afraid.  No such issue with Ukrainians, who have no compunction about complaining about their government.
This reminds me of Vietnam. Most in former South Vietnam didn't care about politics..they just wanted to be left alone. It is easy for someone who doesn't have to... to say just pick up and move out. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 20, 2022, 02:35:02 PM
Lavrov announced today that the geographical objectives of Moscow's "special military operation "in Ukraine are no longer limited to the eastern Donbas region ,but include a number of other territories .


He added that Russia's objectives will expand still further if the west delivers long-range weapons to Kyiv.


As reported by Russian state news agency RIA Novosti.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2022, 07:26:51 PM
This reminds me of Vietnam. Most in former South Vietnam didn't care about politics..they just wanted to be left alone. It is easy for someone who doesn't have to... to say just pick up and move out.

That’s exactly what your op-ed is suggesting.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 21, 2022, 11:41:59 AM
12 HIMARS in UA now and another 4 on the way.

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-rocket-systems-himars-weapons-losses-1726753

I suspect there will be a regular supply, something like 4-8 per month as crews get trained.

It's not a panacea, but making a difference not only in striking power but a huge psychological impact as well.  I can imagine RU troops are getting quite stressed knowing they can be easily targeted by UA soldiers sipping tea and taking pot shots while driving around the countryside from a good distance behind the front lines.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 21, 2022, 01:46:08 PM
12 HIMARS in UA now and another 4 on the way.

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-rocket-systems-himars-weapons-losses-1726753 (http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-rocket-systems-himars-weapons-losses-1726753)

I suspect there will be a regular supply, something like 4-8 per month as crews get trained.

It's not a panacea, but making a difference not only in striking power but a huge psychological impact as well.  I can imagine RU troops are getting quite stressed knowing they can be easily targeted by UA soldiers sipping tea and taking pot shots while driving around the countryside from a good distance behind the front lines.


It's making a huge psychological impact among the Ukrainian top brass too.


As a young Ukrainian lady in Kyiv says.


"Listen to the Ukrainian Government rhetoric.It's gone from "help us,they are massacring us "to "We're going to take Crimea and hit the bridge "."
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 22, 2022, 02:05:38 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/20/austin-more-us-rocket-systems-ukraine-00046856

It seems more advanced items may be underway as well.  Scroll down the article to read about it.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on July 22, 2022, 06:21:43 AM
 
Quote
It is easy for someone who doesn't have to... to say just pick up and move out.
That’s exactly what your op-ed is suggesting.
I fail to see the words evacuate..move..leave...get out...or vacate in that article. Perhaps something specific can be highlighted?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on July 22, 2022, 06:23:46 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/20/austin-more-us-rocket-systems-ukraine-00046856 (http://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/20/austin-more-us-rocket-systems-ukraine-00046856)

It seems more advanced items may be underway as well.  Scroll down the article to read about it.
The usually unreliable politico links are not working it seems.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 22, 2022, 09:00:13 AM
The usually unreliable politico links are not working it seems.

Works fine here, and also in the US via my vpn connection.

Guess you're using a Trump approved browser.
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 23, 2022, 12:29:13 AM
The Russian economy is imploding.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/russia-economy-sanctions-myths-ruble-business/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 23, 2022, 04:53:48 AM
Interesting article Boethius.  It helped me understand a bit more and put things into better perspective.  Thanks.

In the longer term, EU will not forget this wake-up call. Although the expense is high, it is temporary and we'll end up better off in the end, less reliant on RU.

All in all, a small price to pay to support UA and keep RU at bay.
Title: Russian economy imploding
Post by: ML on July 23, 2022, 09:27:54 AM
The Russian economy is imploding.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/russia-economy-sanctions-myths-ruble-business/

Great news !!

Let's hope they are at least 'mostly' correct.

Thanks much for sharing Boe.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 23, 2022, 11:46:24 AM
Regarding the discussion up-thread as to whether or not negotiations with RU would be effective.

http://www.npr.org/2022/07/23/1113165082/russia-strikes-ukraine-black-sea-odesa-grain-deal
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 23, 2022, 02:23:00 PM
  I fail to see the words evacuate..move..leave...get out...or vacate in that article. Perhaps something specific can be highlighted?


It's implicit.  Give up Donbas.  If you're a Ukrainian (which the majority of the residents of Donbas are), then just leave, because you won't be able to live as a Ukrainian there.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: RussianWomenOnly on July 23, 2022, 05:44:46 PM
If Russian military takes over Odessa, what are the chances they will invade other countries like Moldova?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 23, 2022, 06:23:16 PM
They can hardly hold what they have taken so far. Odesa has thousands of km of underground tunnels that have been prepared for an invasion. Russia would be fighting there for years.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on July 24, 2022, 12:40:06 AM
If Russian military takes over Odessa, what are the chances they will invade other countries like Moldova?

I have already answered your question. 
If they take Odessa they will reunify the region (oblast) with the Eastern part of Moldovia, Transnistria. 100%
But they cannot take Odessa, they don't have the troops, nor the military stuff. Odessa is a big city with 2000 km of tunnels below. 
In the worst case, they will need months before approaching Odessa. 
If Russians cross the border or the western part of Moldova they will face fiercer opposition from the EC and the USA. 


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 24, 2022, 01:25:51 AM
Indeed, I agree with the above, at the moment Russia does not have Nikolaev within reach anymore so no real threat to Odessa. In fact Ukrainian forces are pushing towards Kherson using HIMARS to good effect. All across Ukraine, Russia is now running out of steam and with many Ammunition depots blow up by HIMARS they are now lacking the fire power to press forward with their invasion.

The only troops Russia has got to attack Moldova with is apparently in the break away region next to Moldova. This is a useful article I found online:

http://balkaninsight.com/2022/07/13/moldova-weighs-mobility-and-firepower-in-military-overhaul/

So they have about 10,000 Russian troops in the break away region, about 3 battalions l, tanks if I recall correctly. I don't know how much ammo they have there or how long they could keep up an offensive if they moved into Moldova. I always found it strange that they never used those troops to attack Odesa early on in the invasion or at least move in to close of the border areas. Moldovan army should be on alert now in case Russia made a sudden move using the forces in the break away region. Likely they would have used presence there to make an excuse for invading Moldova line they did Ukraine. I wouldn't totally put it past Putler not to use them to invade Moldova unless they are really low on Ammo there. At this stage Putler has little to lose with the war going badly in Ukraine that he might chance it and see if he can get by a quick swift invasion as he had hoped for in Ukraine. In my opinion he has little to lose as the break away region of Moldova is slim so not much to risk. It may well be that even with a heads up from the Ukrainian invasion Moldova's army may not prove to be very able.

As stated in the article they are looking to modernise their army over the coming decade. Apparently the EU is going to give them €40 to help with this despite them not being an EU member lol. Shows how the EU like to throw their wealthier members money around even on non-EU members despite the EU and many of its members starting to get into dire economic conditions.

So it remains up in the air, will Putler use the forces in the breakaway region to attack Odessa, Moldova or just keep them put? As has been said they can't get supplies in so once they've shot their bolt that's it if they do so. My opinion like above is that they are unlikely to take Odessa with those forces and will likely get bogged down there. So if they were to use them they might strike against Moldova and hope on a quick victory. As they've not used them to date though I would question if they have much ability to fight so there's good odds that they will just stay put also I reckon so I wouldn't fret just yet RWO.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 24, 2022, 02:45:33 AM
Regarding the discussion up-thread as to whether or not negotiations with RU would be effective.

http://www.npr.org/2022/07/23/1113165082/russia-strikes-ukraine-black-sea-odesa-grain-deal (http://www.npr.org/2022/07/23/1113165082/russia-strikes-ukraine-black-sea-odesa-grain-deal)


No surprise there..i'd have been shocked if Putler and his orcs had honoured the grain deal.


For all the appeasement/Chamberlain brigade...there can be no negotiations with a country/regime that broke the Budapest Memorandum.


Russia cannot be trusted in the slightest....capiche ?


The only way to stop Putler and his orcs is the complete destruction of their armed forces...which may possibly need the onset of World War 3 to achieve.


There is no middle ground here...Russia needs to be totally de-militarized and economically destroyed.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 24, 2022, 08:43:32 AM
Reading an article today which was exploring the state of the Russian economy. It reckoned the Russian economy is in a bad way, far worse than the Kremlin is making out. Sanctions are having an impact, oil, gas, etc and even Chinese trade with Russia has apparently fallen away as Chinese companies prefer to do trade with the US, a far bigger market and so shun Russia in fear of failing foul of US sanctions and being cut out of the more lucrative US market. Meanwhile the Ruble is not strong and only being propped up by the Kremlin's internal measured.

So overall the west is suffering but far less than Russia economically. So for us just a question of staying the course. That will be worthwhile in the long run as the longer Russia stays in the war the more knackered they will be economically and militarily. The greater odds also of the Russian Republics revolting and breaking away from the Russian Federation. Putler will end up with egg on his face in such a scenario as Russia will be a lot smaller and weaker than before the Ukrainian Invasion. They reckon it may take many years if ever for Russia to get back to where it was economically. If the west becomes less reliant on oil & gas in the coming years then that will hit Russia greatly too.

Really all a question of time, of how long Russia is prepared too and can hang in there. The longer they keep going the more their military runs down and so the less powerful they are. That's good news for the west & Ukraine as without any teeth Russia will be humbled on the world stage and so far it's been losing a lot of gear out there.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on July 24, 2022, 09:48:08 AM

No surprise there..i'd have been shocked if Putler and his orcs had honoured the grain deal.


For all the appeasement/Chamberlain brigade...there can be no negotiations with a country/regime that broke the Budapest Memorandum.


Russia cannot be trusted in the slightest....capiche ?


The only way to stop Putler and his orcs is the complete destruction of their armed forces...which may possibly need the onset of World War 3 to achieve.


There is no middle ground here...Russia needs to be totally de-militarized and economically destroyed.

He didn't like the meeting with the Turkish President. 
And moreover, this agreement is totally stupid when you are in the Russian shoes, why they would respect it?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 24, 2022, 10:29:50 AM
Russia should not have signed an agreement they had no intention of honouring. It proves they cannot be trusted. They’re a rogue state.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 24, 2022, 01:00:55 PM
Never ceases to amaze me how just a few decades ago the Soviet/Russian Army that Ukraine is now facing was a powerful and potent force. A massive army full of huge numbers of tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc enough for western nations to be both in awe of and fearful of now all but a largely outdated mostly rusted wreaks only a fraction of its former powerful might. The finishing off, of the better part of Russia army in Ukraine signals the fag end of that Soviet might that once was but is no longer. In comparison, China's army now looks like it potentially poses a much bigger threat, not old rusty armaments from years gone by but a modern efficient army with up to date equipment and large in size. Russia's army looks poor and pales in comparison, to me it's looking like Russia's time as a powerful nation is fast coming to an end, brought about by Putler's ambition to grasp for more.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 24, 2022, 04:17:49 PM
Well, with expenditures less than 1/10th that of the US, less than 1/3 that of the EU, and a good bit squandered due to corruption, it's not that awful surprising even with low wages and unlimited energy at its disposal.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on July 25, 2022, 10:04:03 AM
Never ceases to amaze me how just a few decades ago the Soviet/Russian Army that Ukraine is now facing was a powerful and potent force. A massive army full of huge numbers of tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc enough for western nations to be both in awe of and fearful of now all but a largely outdated mostly rusted wreaks only a fraction of its former powerful might. The finishing off, of the better part of Russia army in Ukraine signals the fag end of that Soviet might that once was but is no longer. In comparison, China's army now looks like it potentially poses a much bigger threat, not old rusty armaments from years gone by but a modern efficient army with up to date equipment and large in size. Russia's army looks poor and pales in comparison, to me it's looking like Russia's time as a powerful nation is fast coming to an end, brought about by Putler's ambition to grasp for more.

Politicians sometimes exaggerate how scary an opponent is to get more money/
funding. Now China is the boogeyman. Lastly, we had to assume that the Soviets
kept their gear on decent condition and Generals had to prepare as if they were
top notch.

You can believe that they had plenty of corruption during Soviet times. Every
Generals mistress had a fur coat purchased with money looted from the
Soviet military. Every Generals dacha had a refrigerator with an icemaker.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 25, 2022, 12:48:54 PM
Apparently not, this article caught my eye today, looks like their artillery is now getting worn out lol:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/07/25/russias-artillery-is-wearing-out-and-blowing-up/?sh=4daa015f734c

Looks like soon all they will have left in the bag is either their big weapons of mass destruction missiles if they don't blow up in their face or bring up much of the menfolk and attack Ukraine en-masse with a massive infantry push winning by sheer weight of numbers in one go.

In WWII the Soviet Union had around 6 and a half million men, Nazi Germany around 2 and a half million men. So today's effort by Russia is puny. They have struggled with logistics with even a much smaller army. They may have more money to spend on the war than Ukraine but the west is helping Ukraine out so that evens the balance, if anything can tip it in Ukraine's favour. Its starting to look like Russia's days as it was may be numbered.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 26, 2022, 11:16:41 AM
A paper on the failing Russian economy.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4167193
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 26, 2022, 01:14:17 PM
Super good find Bo-dacious!!

go the source link, it includes the following graphic:

look how the USA overtook Russia, as biggest gas supplier to Europe
JUST A MONTH AGO!!!
and look at the slope of those two curves,
and now think 5 yr out

which hurts more?
this?
or Amerikanski Racketa?

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 26, 2022, 01:37:29 PM
A paper on the failing Russian economy.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4167193

That site wants me to enable its cookies, which I won't do.

Any chance you can post it otherwise ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 26, 2022, 01:54:35 PM
That site wants me to enable its cookies, which I won't do.

Any chance you can post it otherwise ?

ML,

Try http://download1324.mediafire.com/56w4bx08bapg/koo1odcb6ke66z1/SSRN-id4167193.pdf
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 26, 2022, 02:41:38 PM
ML,

Try http://download1324.mediafire.com/56w4bx08bapg/koo1odcb6ke66z1/SSRN-id4167193.pdf

BC, thanks for that.
But that site wants me to download something, which I don't want to do either.
And, they are going to install cookies!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 26, 2022, 03:41:32 PM
Yes, you want to download the .pdf file

On the original link Boethius gave you, you can also restrict the cookies by clicking on cookie settings at the bottom of the page and allowing only the functional cookie.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
p d f :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on July 27, 2022, 12:58:46 PM
So what did you think of the assessment, Trench?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2022, 02:38:06 PM
So what did you think of the assessment, Trench?

Ah, yes it appears to be a more long winded version of the economic article I referred to a few days ago on here. Sorry I forgot to put the link I think, could have saved you all a lot of reading time ;) Anyway here it is:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/russia-economy-sanctions-myths-ruble-business/

So yes, I concur.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2022, 05:35:10 AM
Putler has gone a bit quiet lately..probably trying to work out his escape exit from Russia as his orc military faces defeat in Ukraine.


As per the UK MOD report today "Ukraine's counter offensive in Kherson is gathering momentum,and the orcs 49th Army is looking highly vulnerable,with the city of Kherson now virtually cut off from the other occupied territories ".


There is video out there of Ukrainian troops flooding across the Ingulets river,which forms the northern boundary of Kherson, and establishing a bridgehead south of it.


Meanwhile the bridges across the Dnipro river which the orcs were using to supply Kherson,have been smashed by Ukrainian Artillery and HIMARS.


The Ukrainian military has given the orcs occupying Kherson  an ultimatum of either surrendering or face annihilation.


There are 16,000 orcs there...it'll be a huge loss for their military...one i doubt they can recover from physically and mentally.


If and when Kherson is liberated from the orcs i suspect Crimea will be the next stage of the operation to liberate Ukraine from orcs,because once that's taken the orcs in Donbas will be encircled with Ukrainian troops holding the Kharkiv region,so no escape for the orcs through there either.


Just pummel them with HIMARS and western Artillery and finish them all off from a safe distance whilst drinking flasks of tea and eating biscuits . :popcorn:


Hopefully Ukraine will be receiving the 300km HIMARS missiles soon so they can start hitting the orc missile launchers at Belgorod too.


With 80% of the orc military in Ukraine it'll be a good opportunity to wipe them out and deal a terminal blow to the Kremlin regime.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2022, 06:33:37 AM
Natasha Bertrand CNN reporter covering the White House and National security,after a briefing from Biden admin officials.


"We were briefed that over 75,000 Russians have either been killed or wounded in Ukraine ,which is huge.....over 80% of their land forces are bogged down,and they're tired ".




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 28, 2022, 06:36:39 AM
Looks like the Ukrainian military is going straight for retaking Kherson instead of going the longer route of circumventing it from the north. Looks like the bridges they have so far done them enough damage to hinder easy resupply but avoided taking them out completely. That's probably the best strategy as with a bit of luck the orcs will lose their nerve and make a run for it thereby avoiding a lot of civilian suffering. It also means that potentially Ukraine can get some troops over to the other side of the bridge if they are quick and push back the Orcs so they can't hammer Kherson with artillery from the other side of the river bank. Clearly taking out the ammunition dumps earlier in the month was key to avoid Kherson being decimated in an Artillery barrage from the Orcs. So that is something we and particularly the residents of Kherson have to be thankful for as those HIMARS really have helped avoid Kherson facing a similar fate to cities like in Mariupol & the Donbass hopefully. Still not yet won as Ukraine needs to find a way of displacing the Orcs from Kherson without hitting a lot of their civilians. HIMARS will help with accurate firing but I'm doubtful if they can do enough to displace the many of the individual 16,000 troops on the ground. Can only hope that the Orcs morale cracks under fire quickly.

It looks like Ukraine can't afford to linger too long now as of course hitting the bridges will make it harder to get food supplies into Kherson to the civilians and so a long siege would make them suffer food shortages and that could get difficult.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2022, 07:07:49 AM
I very much doubt the orcs could hammer Kherson with their artillery from the other side of the Dnipro river,as the HIMARS and longer-range western Artillery will out-range them and wipe them out.


Long-range missiles are another story of course,so hopefully Ukraine will have some good SAM systems for Kherson to at least cut down the number that would get through.


If the proposed 300km HIMARS missiles are supplied to Ukraine they can hit the orc missile launchers in Crimea anyway.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 28, 2022, 07:23:12 AM
If and when Kherson is liberated from the orcs i suspect Crimea will be the next stage of the operation to liberate Ukraine from orcs,because once that's taken the orcs in Donbas will be encircled with Ukrainian troops holding the Kharkiv region, so no escape for the orcs through there either.

Why couldn't orcs just move straight east across into Russia?

No need to go up through Kharkiv.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 28, 2022, 12:42:07 PM
Looks like Ukraine is playing centre stage for an arm's bazaar:

http://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1747539/lithuania-to-buy-himars-launchers-confirms-ministry

Looks like this conflict will end up as a paying game for the western arms industry. Happens I guess but at least Ukraine get the positive of kicking Russia's butt rather than having their own butt kicked.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on July 28, 2022, 07:24:03 PM
Why couldn't orcs just move straight east across into Russia?
They would but they're worried about goblins and warlocks. They're all out of pixie dust and waiting for unicorns to deliver more. Santa Claus is busy.

CB is delusional and thus uses fantastical, ergo childish language. 80% of Russian land forces in Ukraine? They haven't even mobilized the army. They're also bringing the Russian winter to the rest of Europe.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2022, 02:19:21 AM
Odds are winter may bring a change in how this war is conducted once again. Artillery, tanks and other heavy weaponry can be almost impossible to move around if it becomes a muddy winter and only once the ground hardens likely in Jan/Feb next year does manoeuvring that gear get easy, if it hardens.

It's then we might see the Russians either resort to their weapons of mass destruction or mobilize their men for war en-masse. That all depends on if they have deep enough pockets for that, a population that doesn't kick back against it and enough AK47's or other guns to go around. If they do manage to get it together then it could turn a lot more into an infantry war I reckon. By the beginning of winter most of Russia's tanks that are operable will likely have been used up anyway and their artillery likely either out out of action or out of ammo so I think an infantry war could be highly likely with both sides bringing as many soldiers to the front as possible. That will mark a new phase in the war, Russians once again being the ones with snow on their boots.

By that time Ukraine could well have recovered some lost ground, quite possibly retaking Kherson but I'm not so sure about all that much more elsewhere. Putler can't afford to give up as he knows it will be the end for him. So odds are it will be down to either side seeing what they can bring to bear in an infantry war to bring success if possible. For Ukraine they can probably dig in particularly in the cities and have backup from their heavy weapons while Russians may well likely attack with large infantry numbers likely dwarfing that off Ukraine. Then just a matter of who cracks first if anyone.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 29, 2022, 03:46:50 AM
Why couldn't orcs just move straight east across into Russia?

No need to go up through Kharkiv.


Yep they could and no doubt the increasing numbers of HIMARS will be placed at strategic points to inflict maximum damage to the fleeing orc horde,as the orcs will have no other options.It'll be the carnage of the retreat from Kyiv all over again. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 29, 2022, 03:53:52 AM
You need ammunition to do that. Oh wait...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine)

Maybe you're just salty that some fellow Brits are about to cop death by firing squad.

(FWIW I oppose capital punishment)

This channel has fairly balanced analysis.




Talking about delusional how's this post about Ukraine running out of ammo working out for you ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 29, 2022, 04:05:51 AM
As predicted...

Russia commenced "Phase 2" with the primary objective of complete control of the east and a secondary objective of taking the Black Sea coast. Unsurprising the news in Transnistria. NATO are getting involved surrepticiously in Transnistria, just like with the attack on the Moskva - which was closer to Romania (de jure NATO) than Ukraine (de facto NATO) when hit. Russia may need to recognize Transnistria as they did with LNR and DNR and perform a "special operation" or step up their "peacekeeping" else NATO may move in.

Also as predicted Russia wants to cut off supply lines from the west so have hit key rail infrastructure. Also as predicted Ukrainian forces suffering massive human casualties (and POWs).  Their attacks on Russian soil serve little strategic benefit so will have minimal impact in the course of the war.

I should have bought stock in Raytheon, Boeing and the other war profiteers... I should have kept a watch on Pelosi's investments...

In other news -
  • One dead British mercenary confirmed, another missing
  • Many other foreign mercenaries are perishing or captured
  • Get your popcorn ready for when the Azovstal plant is "cleared", Putin ain't negotiating on that one! LOL @ Zelensky who wants Azov and NATO guys free to go to Turkey.
  • Gazprom racking up record profits while Europe's economy is in a tailspin.
  • European countries one by one accepting gas for rubles.
  • Indonesia bans exports of palm oil... which Europe was using to cover the short fall of oil from Ukraine. The Europeans are ideological idiots!
  • No surprise in France with Macron, nothing will really change there. Riots if not civil war is coming to France. That's not me talking but their former head of intelligence!
  • Chinese lockdowns are a major concern. It's moronic and destructive but the CCP don't like losing face! Global implications but largely overlooked.
  • The world is moving closer to nuclear conflict. This is far more serious than the Cuban missile crisis.
Sadly things are likely to escalate rather than de-escalate.

Trench - Russia is hitting ALL of Ukraine. There's no way you'll visit in the Summer unless Ukraine surrenders... not gonna happen on Biden's watch... or his son's laptop! Unless you're creating TikTok videos with Zelensky then Ukraine is a no go zone.


Here's another delusional  strategic master-class from you..now we see the orcs have been unable to advance to take the Black Sea coast and are in fact now struggling to hold on to Kherson. ;D


Your posts do wear well don't they ? LOL.


i suggest you leave your Unicorn fantasies to the orc propaganda forums you frequent and leave the adults to discuss the realities of what's happening in the real world on here.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 29, 2022, 04:08:51 AM
I'll take a man with no legs over a man with no brains. The "laptop from hell" resurfaced because regime change is coming to the USA.

Apparently the last oil refinery in Ukraine was destroyed last night. Hard to run a military on no gas. Hey Pat - does France still have a cavalry? Ukraine may need one!

Unconfirmed reports of child soldiers recruited in Ukraine (images/video available but not verifiable). Pitting kids against Spetsnaz? If true the Zelensky regime is truly despicable.


Here's another rwd123 classic that has worn well.


What was that about the Ukraine military having no gas ?


You do like clutching at straws don't you ? ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 29, 2022, 04:13:13 AM
The Russians have pinned down a large portion of the Ukrainian army in the south, and any moving from the north will face death from above. Supply lines will get hit and without them they're as good as dead. Southern Ukraine is no longer Ukraine! Plenty of Russian flags going up on buildings... if you're reading MSM then you're probably getting a distorted view. A mix of Telegram channels will give a better picture.

Some analysts have stated the Russian troop movements in the north were a bluff so that they could more effectively perform their operations in the south. Once the south falls it's as good as game over.

Boe - I'm not saying the Italian reporter is accurate, I have said it was inconclusive (but it's funny how it drops out of the news once it is reported). I've been pretty consistent in saying the first victim of war is the truth. Without an open mind one will fall back into personal biases.


"Southern Ukraine is no longer Ukraine "


Yes folks that's what the site idiot posted on April 11.


The more you post rwd123 the more clueless you make yourself look.  :cluebat:

I rest my case.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 29, 2022, 05:12:01 AM
A video has been released last night from orc troops in Severodonetsk showing them torturing a wounded Ukrainian soldier POW and then castrating him with a box knife.


It was filmed during daytime.


I had the opportunity to watch it but couldn't..



Many Russians did watch it though,and clearly took pleasure in it,because equally sickening were the many messages of happiness and support for this hideous deed from fellow Russians on the internet.


These are the people that pro-Russian trolls such as rwd123 support/worship...which says much about them.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 30, 2022, 07:13:09 AM
Ukraine now has MLRS M270's in the field to work alongside the HIMARS.


The firepower is increasing constantly to inflict more carnage on the raping,castrating,executing,looting orc's.


Night is dark and full of terrors.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on July 30, 2022, 10:02:22 AM
Ukraine now has MLRS M270's in the field to work alongside the HIMARS.

MLRS means Multiple Launch Rocket System.

Accordingly, the concept of MLRS covers both the M270 and the M142 HIMARS systems.

HIMARS (pronounced "Hymars") is an abbreviation for High Mobility Artillery Rocket System - a highly mobile artillery rocket fire system.

There are two key differences between the M142 HIMARS and the M270 units.

HIMARS has higher mobility being mounted on wheeled trucks whereas the M270 is mounted on tank tracks.

In turn, the HIMARS has half the immediate capacity with 1 package of six 277mm caliber missiles or 1 tactical medium-range ATACMS 610 mm caliber missile.

The M270 has immediate capacity of 2 packages of the 277 missiles (so 12 in total) or 2 of the 610 missiles.

The HIMARS has the huge advantage of 'shoot and run' which makes it very hard for the enemy to destroy a HIMARS.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 01, 2022, 09:01:28 AM
Four more HIMARS from the USA and three MARS 11 MLRS from Germany have now arrived in Ukraine.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on August 01, 2022, 10:53:39 AM
I'd say that puts around 30 or more highly accurate medium-range rocket systems in UA plus a good bit of artillery as well.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2022, 04:10:35 PM
Ukrainian tycoon killed in recent shelling of Nikolaev:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62367356.amp

Was an extremely wealthy guy especially by Ukrainian standards. Nice jacket slightly like the one I have on the way, will no doubt impress if he was wearing something similar quality ;D

Maybe girls out there would see me as a wealthy tycoon :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2022, 07:35:59 PM
An article on Russian voices.

http://cepa.org/russias-military-grows-afraid-of-the-long-war/

This is the Facebook page of a Ukrainian soldier.

http://tinyurl.com/tujhdh8f
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2022, 02:23:57 PM
Ukraine using US HIMARS & Howitzers to good effect around Kherson yesterday:

http://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-himars-strike-russian-bases-counter-attack-kherson-artillery-1730303

More arms dumps and some military bases hit. Apparently the Russian Army is now in bad shape and looking like it should be vulnerable to a counter offensive by Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2022, 02:00:32 AM
Some new tanks for Russia for Ukraine to destroy:

http://tinyurl.com/4snrpbj9
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 13, 2022, 08:07:56 PM
Economists say sanctions are not creating a famine.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/putins-claim-that-sanctions-are-creating-conditions-for-a-global-famine-is-a-myth-say-yale-academics-11660331559?siteid=yhoof2
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 13, 2022, 09:04:54 PM
if true, that's good to know, but losing Ukraine's output will still impact the world, and will certainly impact Ukraine
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2022, 12:56:47 AM
Two more ammo dumps destroyed around Kherson today and the bridges largely taken out meaning big difficulty supplying Russian troops in Kherson. Even still it's looking like Ukraine may struggle at mounting a counteroffensive to retake Kherson or any of the Donbas. Like Russia many of their well trained forces are lost then there is having the armaments to dislodge the Russians. Ukraine tends to lack the large number of artillery then there is the question that they would likely end up firing at their own civilians.

It's looking like it's becoming a war of attrition for both sides and one that could rumble on for some time with the battle lines largely stagnated along current positions. Economies of both countries are apparently becoming in bad shape, unemployment in Russia just over 9 percent and will likely increase, its economy apparently already set back by four years. Ukraine is apparently having trouble paying it's soldiers with money promised by the EU not coming through as quickly as hoped. Inflation, interest rates and currency issues becoming problems in both nations. Tourism of course largely out in Ukraine so much money lost there and any one with any sense avoiding Russia also.

So really a case of seeing who cracks first. Ukraine is pretty reliant on the west now for economic and military support. Russia is exhausting itself and a long time at this could break up under the strain of being run down by it all. My guess is probably not this year but next year matters will be getting in a pretty dire way in Russia as time and effort at this campaign takes it toll.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 15, 2022, 05:37:03 AM
One would hope that with the orcs having to scour prisons for their new recruits,and with Ukraine's new recruits being fully trained by the UK and others,that this would tip things in Ukraine's favour.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2022, 06:51:51 AM
One would hope that with the orcs having to scour prisons for their new recruits,and with Ukraine's new recruits being fully trained by the UK and others,that this would tip things in Ukraine's favour.

Looks like it could be over for the Wagner Group and their activities recruiting from prisons:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62547403

Might have even gotten their head guy, 'the chef'.

That strike will no doubt reduce the Wagner Group's ability to spearhead assaults. So it's getting to the point where Russia is losing the ability to invade any further. As you state CB the UK training up Ukraine's military will help them with counter-offensive abilities, just a question of when and how much Ukraine is able to bring to bear. The underlying problem for cities such as Kherson that are still inhabited is his to do it without causing mass casualties. Possibly there is a way it's just Ukraine having to see what works to achieve that I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on August 15, 2022, 07:25:20 AM
Kherson to my mind isnt a challenge for ukraine/AFU.

The kherson oblast is,the city itself? No.

They are doing the normal things,cut supply lines.
If they take the northside of the dneper, i would simply
by-pass the city, they can control anything coming in by river/ sea, and simply leave what russian  army remains in the city  to the partisan efforts there.
Any armoured units that wpuld remain could be controlled 8f you alreasy have has the strenght push them to the city in the first place. And they wouldnt have fuel long.
So i think the oblast is what they will concentrate on and of course keeping the supply lines cut.

Zero need to try to retake kherson itaelf, time would be on tier side  in this one instance

Buit this completely depends on the huge *if* they can take that northern section of oblast back.

They lost 6 fighter /astack planes last week.alone.
(Granted it proves russuas folly of claiming they had taken put AFU airforce months ago)

But thats a significant loss for ukraine when lend lease has yet to come into play.

Russia losing 9 at saki base,is embarrasing but not as impactful,as the strike itselfs location
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Lonestar on August 15, 2022, 08:58:21 PM
Once Ukraine gets more of the Ghost drones and R1 drones Russia will be in trouble.  Majority of these drone companies are in Southern California.  Switchblade is old technology but still better than what Russia has.

Kherson only fell to Russia because the Russians had moles inside Kherson before this started.  People of Khersen who stayed behind see how horrible it is under Russian control.  Same goes with Crimea.

Going to get very bloody for the Russians and Putin cannot admit defeat and its army is essentially worn out and defeated.  Sanction take 9 months to be effective and Russia is already several months behind on paying its soldiers. 

Putin cannot launch nuclear missile at Ukraine as the wind will blow it into Belarus or even Russia depending on where it lands.  Last thing Russia needs is a revolution in Belarus. 

I never would have thought Ukraine would get Crimea back but it looks like it will happen in next 12 months. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 19, 2022, 10:58:10 PM
A good article by a Russian journalist.  It’s unfortunate FT and GQ are not here, as it addresses their knee jerk anti Americanism.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/12/russia-ukraine-war-crimes-genocide-appeasement-mearsheimer-putin/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 20, 2022, 03:47:16 AM
FT ran off to the other place to be among pro-Russian/anti western friends ( although of course the vast majority of him and his new pals still infest western countries,including the rabid pro-orc forum owner, rather than actually live in dumpski ).


The word hypocrites springs to mind.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 20, 2022, 12:06:17 PM
FT? Didn't notice that forum user in here, do you mean Faux Pas?

Anyhow looking through the news articles today it seems that the opinion is around that we may now be in deadlock on the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is able to hit Russia's ability to resupply and so have halted it's ability to advance mostly. Ukraine though seems to struggle with ability to counter-attack with the orcs is such big numbers in the positions they hold. Kherson in particular they haven't moved upon and I'm not sure they're able to without risking large losses of troops which I believe they aren't willing to take.

So odds are this war will likely be running on for some time with the battlefront largely remaining where it is. Even if Ukraine got a large number of howitzers from the US my guess is that they wouldn't want to pummel their own citizens with them in order to retake Ukrainian cities. Unless Ukraine can find some way of displacing the enemy its likely that the present status quo will remain. For Ukraine the good news is that Russia has been stopped in its advance and early defeat of Ukraine with it. The bad news is that Ukraine may have to endure this stagnated war for quite some time now. So it could likely come down to a war of attrition, I don't think so much in terms of armaments but more likely the economy. I think it will really come down to whose economy will crack first, Ukraine or Russia's. Of recent Ukraine was struggling to pay it's troops only just about managing it. With Russia their economy is also in a bad way with unemployment rising to around 9 percent or more, inflation & interest rates up, etc. So whether regions will start to break away as a result or the people take action who knows.

The only other area is the state of morale in the armies, for Ukraine it's not so bad, even if problems with pay odds are they will hold on, they have little choice in the matter. With Russia it's unknown, their morale is not good but just defending their morale may hold. But I think there might be a good chance that they will get to a point where they have had enough, the soldiers in the ground give up and they all start to desert en-masse. That scenario happened for Russia during WWI so I think it's plausible it could happen again, when that happens who knows. Winter will soon be coming so that means thousands of soldiers suffering cold conditions on both sides so their might be a chance that it could occur then, or it could take years, we'll just have to see I guess.

I think one thing looks more likely though is that whichever side wins it's more likely to be down to other aspects than winning on the battlefield, namely the economy, cracked morale or disintegration of the state.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on August 20, 2022, 12:19:25 PM
A good article by a Russian journalist.  It’s unfortunate FT and GQ are not here, as it addresses their knee jerk anti Americanism.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/12/russia-ukraine-war-crimes-genocide-appeasement-mearsheimer-putin/

That article cannot be read without a subscription.
Any link without a required subscription ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 20, 2022, 01:36:51 PM
http://archive.ph/WwH6l
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 20, 2022, 03:33:43 PM
FT? Didn't notice that forum user in here, do you mean Faux Pas?




FT is fathertime....a shopkeeper in the USA who has made plenty of posts on this thread with a propensity to big-up Russia and how mighty it is whilst running down the USA/West.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 20, 2022, 04:41:48 PM

FT is fathertime....a shopkeeper in the USA who has made plenty of posts on this thread with a propensity to big-up Russia and how mighty it is whilst running down the USA/West.

Ah, of course, thanks CB a long time poster here and there or like you say was. I recall FT wasn't too keen on getting the vaccine despite coming into contact with some customers who seemed to have the virus.

Well the way I see it, it was Putler who attacked Ukraine in an unprovoked attack. If Ukraine was getting closer to the west in alignment it was through their own choice as an independent country. Russia essentially did not contest Ukraine becoming a free independent country at the end of the USSR so they've really got no right to move in now.

My guess is that if Ukraine can hold on and so far they have then it may be more likely that Russia will end up expending too much on it all and either it's troops will desert en-masse and/or a second break up of Russian territory will occur so thereby ending the conflict. I think the west will back Ukraine all the way as they know the price of Ukraine falling is too great and a return to dealing with a great Russian Empire threat again. If Russia fails on the other hand then it could be the end of any Russian threat for good or at least a very long time, that's got to be good news for us in the west si just a case of us keeping up the good fight.

It's a shame others don't see it that way, the west might not always act without notice but Putler is just after grabbing what he thinks he can get and damn all the suffering involved, he's just a bad guy that's leading Russia down the wrong path and needs to be gone.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on August 20, 2022, 05:56:24 PM
http://archive.ph/WwH6l

Thanks for that.

What he wrote is very similar to what was in another article referenced here some days ago.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 21, 2022, 03:54:03 AM
Prominent assassination carried out, IRA car bomb style:

http://news.sky.com/story/daughter-of-russian-ultra-nationalist-killed-in-suspected-car-bomb-attack-12678269

A pretty girl but a Putler sympathiser. Looks like the bomb was intended for her father but her choosing to drive his car unusual random chance meant that she suffered the horrible fate instead. I wonder how the Father feels now about his views and influence on the invasion of Ukraine now that misery from that conflict has come home to roost.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 21, 2022, 08:39:49 AM
Alexander Dugin, Russian Mastermind behind Russia's annexation of Crimea, AKA "Putin's brains", daughter, Dariya Dugin, was killed when her car exploded. Most likely from an assassination attempt that meant to target Dugin himself.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 21, 2022, 01:11:56 PM
Alexander Dugin, Russian Mastermind behind Russia's annexation of Crimea, AKA "Putin's brains", daughter, Dariya Dugin, was killed when her car exploded. Most likely from an assassination attempt that meant to target Dugin himself.

Yeah apparently into philosophy. Guess they got taught the philosophy that if 'you cause shit to happen to others they'll cause you shit in return'.

Reckon this is the way forward, target Putlers family and all of his henchmen, car bomb and assassinate them see how they like some of the misery they are inflicting on the Ukrainian people back on them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 21, 2022, 02:44:12 PM
Alexander Dugin, Russian Mastermind behind Russia's annexation of Crimea, AKA "Putin's brains", daughter, Dariya Dugin, was killed when her car exploded. Most likely from an assassination attempt that meant to target Dugin himself.


собаці собача смерть
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LAman on August 21, 2022, 07:07:10 PM
Alexander Dugin, Russian Mastermind behind Russia's annexation of Crimea, AKA "Putin's brains", daughter, Dariya Dugin, was killed when her car exploded. Most likely from an assassination attempt that meant to target Dugin himself.


The car didn't explode... a bomb did.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 22, 2022, 05:33:54 AM
From recent news out in the UK I wonder if the groundwork is being laid paving the way for British troops to be sent out to Ukraine:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-soldiers-told-ready-war-27791322.amp

I personally think this would be a mistake as it's not directly our fight so we should keep out of it. Possibly with the fighting looking like it's becoming deadlocked and military aid possibly looking like economic aid may be needed moreso in future and for a long time the west might be deciding it may struggle to prop up Ukraine economically for that long as Ukraine's economy may not be far off bust now.

Russia still hasn't actually declared war on Ukraine so apparently it's still a special military operation. So we wouldn't necessarily be entering a war - in name at least. I still don't think it would be a good idea but we along with the US always seem to end up going into these things.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on August 22, 2022, 12:01:46 PM
Republican national army.
Partisan russian movement is taking responcibility for Dugins daughters death.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on August 22, 2022, 01:46:20 PM
Republican national army.
Partisan russian movement is taking responcibility for Dugins daughters death.

You are being corrupted by a person who writes in Cyrillic.  :-)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 22, 2022, 02:05:28 PM
Looks like last remnants of the only bridge left connecting Kherson was taken out today:

http://news.yahoo.com/local-residents-claim-antonivskyi-bridge-152100353.html

So just the occasional slow ferry crossing left. Looks like things could very unfortunately get distressingly difficult for the residents of Kherson soon. Already there were some reports of a situation of near starvation in the city. Unless supplies can be brought in by ferry/boat well enough then I'm not sure what will happen.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on August 22, 2022, 05:07:01 PM
The Finnish PM was shaking her booty on the dance floor and
the professionally and perpetually offended got offended. What
a HUGE surprise

Video
http://youtu.be/2Jv-9Fz3cVs


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on August 24, 2022, 08:11:52 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/17/i-dont-see-justice-in-this-war-russian-soldier-exposes-rot-at-core-of-ukraine-invasion
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 24, 2022, 08:55:26 AM
It's Ukrainian Independence Day and Boris is back in Ukraine in Kyiv on his third outing to once again spearhead the campaign against the Russian Invasion!

http://www.cnn.com/2022/08/24/europe/boris-johnson-ukraine-visit-intl-gbr/index.html

No doubt a boost for Ukrainian people to have its strongest European ally there with them on such a day :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on August 24, 2022, 09:41:34 AM
It's Ukrainian Independence Day and Boris is back in Ukraine in Kyiv on his third outing to once again spearhead the campaign against the Russian Invasion!

http://www.cnn.com/2022/08/24/europe/boris-johnson-ukraine-visit-intl-gbr/index.html

No doubt a boost for Ukrainian people to have its strongest European ally there with them on such a day :)

Anybody would think you were blowing your own trumpet Trenchie.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on August 24, 2022, 11:00:32 AM
Anybody would think you were blowing your own trumpet Trenchie.

Trumpet may be exaggerated.  Little whistle came to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51x532yW1lY
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 24, 2022, 11:30:04 AM
Anybody would think you were blowing your own trumpet Trenchie.

Can't think how you would think that Gaunty :D

Apparently Boris was having a plaque dedicated to him in Kyiv as one of those that most helped Ukraine. Not that I'm saying that would help UK guys after women in Ukraine of course ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 28, 2022, 06:54:49 AM
Ben Wallace " The Russian Army has lost more than 80,000 servicemen in Ukraine ,killed,wounded and deserters.That's 80,000 in six months compared to the 15,000 they lost in ten years in Afghanistan ".


In response the master strategist Putler has formed a 3rd Army Corps to start a renewed offensive in the Donbas.


Made up of volunteer Battalions it is full of out of shape old men...i've seen the photo's of them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 29, 2022, 02:52:36 AM
Multiple hits on Kherson between 3:30 and 4:30 this morning.


One of the targets was a military unit where the orcs were based.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 29, 2022, 03:40:40 AM
The Armed Forces of Ukraine have breached the orcs first line of defence near Kherson,with a combination of aviation and artillery strikes.


Operation south confirms " The Armed Forces of Ukraine launched offensive operations in many directions in the south of Ukraine ".


There are reports of orcs retreating in certain areas.


Update : Video just seen from a Russian soldier under fire "Ukrainians are firing heavily from all kinds of weapons.Ukrainian soldiers occupied the first line of defence.The 109th Regiment of the DPR retreated from it's positions in the Kherson region .Russian Paratroopers fled the battlefield ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 29, 2022, 10:59:39 AM
Orc occupied Melitopol now under attack from the Armed Forces of Ukraine with five HIMARS strikes this afternoon...with Orc bases and ammo depots destroyed.


Reports from Ukrainian troops at the Kherson front that the Orcs are withdrawing from their positions under overwhelming pressure from the Ukrainian Army.


The master strategist Putler had better get the old boys from his newly formed 3rd Army in there quick to save the day for the routed orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 30, 2022, 05:59:36 AM
The orc appointed head of Kherson ...Stremousov....fled to Voronezh,Russia yesterday.


The rats are running.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on August 30, 2022, 03:13:34 PM
Ukraine is reportedly using wooden decoys of advanced US rocket systems to trick Russia into wasting its missiles on them.

According to The Washington Post, the decoy versions of US-supplied rocket launcher systems drew at least 10 Russian Kalibr cruise missiles, leading Ukraine to further boost its production of replicas, in an effort to lure Moscow into firing its expensive long-range missiles on fake targets.

“They’ve claimed to have hit more Himars than we have even sent,” one US diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told the Washington Post.

Experts say that western-supplied rocket systems have been crucial in Ukraine’s successes in halting Russian forces, and the latest report appears to further highlight some of the ways Ukraine has sought to safeguard its western-supplied weapons.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/30/ukraine-using-wooden-decoys-to-lure-russia-into-wasting-its-missiles-report
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 31, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Orc occupied Melitopol now under attack from the Armed Forces of Ukraine with five HIMARS strikes this afternoon...with Orc bases and ammo depots destroyed.


Reports from Ukrainian troops at the Kherson front that the Orcs are withdrawing from their positions under overwhelming pressure from the Ukrainian Army.


The master strategist Putler had better get the old boys from his newly formed 3rd Army in there quick to save the day for the routed orcs.

I tend to agree with this report that there is unlikely to be rapid progress against the Russians. That it's more likely going to be putting a squeeze on the Russians over a fairly lengthy period of time and they'll eventually crack one way or another:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62730439

I doubt that Ukrainian troops will be at or entering Kherson or Melitopol before winter starts to set in in about a month's time or so. Looking at the map they still have a way to go before reaching the outskirts of these cities so for the moment a lot of the counteract directly in these cities appear to be more long range attacks with the Ukrainian forces slowly pushing in from a fair way outside the cities.

Looks like it's a sound enough way forward as should hopefully keep the Ukrainian forces casualties down and from making mistakes like the Russians did in the early days of the invasion.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 31, 2022, 04:18:33 PM
Another Iskander missile has been launched by the orcs in Belgorod tonight and blew up in ......Belgorod.


This is becoming a pretty regular occurrence, so much so that if the orcs used Nukes there's a very good chance they'd Nuke themselves.


Wouldn't that be a shame ?  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on September 01, 2022, 08:13:14 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62750584

Quote
Ravil Maganov: Russian Lukoil chief dies in 'fall from hospital window'

Quote
Shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine, the Lukoil board called for the conflict to end as soon as possible, expressing its sympathy to victims of "this tragedy".

Quote
Several Russian energy oligarchs have died in unusual circumstances in recent months:

The body of millionaire Novatek former manager Sergei Protosenya was found alongside his wife and daughter at a Spanish villa in April
A former vice-president of Gazprombank, Vladislav Avayev, was found dead with his wife and daughter in their Moscow flat, also in April
In May, a former Lukoil tycoon Alexander Subbotin died of heart failure, reportedly after seeking alternative treatment from a shaman.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 01, 2022, 12:20:24 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62750584

Just noticed the same, looks like people are still having a problem negotiating their way past windows in Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 06, 2022, 03:27:10 AM
Video and photo's now being released showing that Vysokopillya,Kherson oblast,has now been liberated from the orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 06, 2022, 04:08:31 AM
50,150 Russian orcs have now been KIA in Ukraine..according to the Ukraine Defence Ministry.


According to the New York Times the orcs are in such dire straits they're having to buy missiles and ammunition from North Korea.


It ain't looking too good for the master strategist Putler and his Kremlin cronies.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 07, 2022, 09:28:11 AM
From reports i'm hearing today it sounds like the entire orc front in Ukraine has started to totally collapse....from Kharkiv down to Kherson and many places in-between.


Ukraine now has Excalibur missiles for their artillery with a range of 70km and accuracy of 4M. >:D


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 07, 2022, 03:51:21 PM
I posted weeks ago that i believed the orcs could be wiped-out in Ukraine by effectively surrounding them and finishing them off....and i was told no waaay they can be surrounded as they'll get back into Russia no problem.


Well the Armed Forces of Ukraine now have fire control over the Dnipro and Inhulet's rivers in Kherson region .The orcs cannot effectively supply or reinforce their troops ,nor can they retreat with equipment.


That's 24.000 orcs now cut off...unless they're very good swimmers...and the Dnipro is full of orc corpses now which suggests many have tried and failed.


In other parts of occupied Ukraine orcs are now being encircled.


As i was saying.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 08, 2022, 06:08:21 AM
The Ukrainians showing the orcs how to do an offensive properly.


Oleksii Gromov,Deputy Head of operative management at Army's General Staff.


"20 Settlements in Kharkiv region have been liberated ".


"Ukrainian Army has advanced 50 km into the enemy's positions "


Videos and photo's everywhere of dead and captured orcs,whilst the pro Russia propagandists are in tears as they see their scumbag heroes being routed.


More strikes on Belgorod last night also,leaving half the city without electricity.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 08, 2022, 11:35:01 AM
"20 Settlements in Kharkiv region have been liberated ".
"Ukrainian Army has advanced 50 km into the enemy's positions "
Videos and photo's everywhere of dead and captured orcs, whilst the pro Russia propagandists are in tears as they see their scumbag heroes being routed.
More strikes on Belgorod last night also, leaving half the city without electricity.

Happy to hear, if true, but fairly minor compared to what Russia has already done to capturing and destroying Ukraine villages/towns and controlling Ukrainian land and killing Ukrainians.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 08, 2022, 11:49:39 AM
The Ukrainians showing the orcs how to do an offensive properly.


Oleksii Gromov,Deputy Head of operative management at Army's General Staff.


"20 Settlements in Kharkiv region have been liberated ".


"Ukrainian Army has advanced 50 km into the enemy's positions "


Videos and photo's everywhere of dead and captured orcs,whilst the pro Russia propagandists are in tears as they see their scumbag heroes being routed.


More strikes on Belgorod last night also,leaving half the city without electricity.

Looks like taking the towns and villages and bypassing the cities will likely be the best way forward for Ukraine. Once they are taken, the cities surrounded and the enemy demoralised then they'll probably fold one by one so saving a lot of destruction and loss of life. I think this is good news and a case of Ukraine keeping up the pressure like this and racking up lots of small wins that eventually will hopefully end in overall victory.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 08, 2022, 12:11:58 PM
Happy to hear, if true, but fairly minor compared to what Russia has already done to capturing and destroying Ukraine villages/towns and controlling Ukrainian land and killing Ukrainians.


Yes,what the Russians have done in Ukraine is beyond comprehension...pure evil.


If i was a Ukrainian soldier i wouldn't be taking any Russian pow's,i'd shoot them dead on the spot after what they've been doing in Ukraine.


Luckily some of the Ukrainian soldiers have more self-control than me...so they have pow's for prisoner exchanges.
Title: Surround Zaporizhzhia
Post by: ML on September 08, 2022, 12:14:01 PM
Can Ukrainian forces surround Zaporizhzhia and starve out the Russian soldiers ??
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 08, 2022, 12:18:30 PM
Ukrainian troops are now in control of Balakliya,Kharkiv region .


I must be getting soft...my eyes started to well up when i saw  residents hugging and kissing their liberators .
Title: Re: Surround Zaporizhzhia
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 08, 2022, 12:26:44 PM
Can Ukrainian forces surround Zaporizhzhia and starve out the Russian soldiers ??


The city of Zaporizhzhia is under Ukrainian control and never taken by the orcs.


Parts of the region ,including the Nuclear power plant,are under orc control and surrounding the plant and starving them would seem to be the best course of action,although difficult whilst they still have ammo for their artillery there.


Their supply lines need to be stopped.
Title: Surround Zaporizhzhia
Post by: ML on September 08, 2022, 01:56:34 PM
I meant to say surround the nuk plant near Zap.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 09, 2022, 03:58:12 AM
A unit of the orc  Paratrooper -Storm forces  attempted to flee back to Russia from the encirclement in Balakliya city but the convoy was annihilated near Shevchenkove settlement in Kharkiv province....and filmed.


As i suggested would happen the Ukrainians are looking to massacre the orcs in Ukraine for what they've done.


There is orc military equipment being abandoned throughout the occupied areas as the orcs are on the run, with some of the soldiers being captured trying to hide in civilian clothing.


Izyum is next on the agenda for encirclement...with thousands of orcs currently trapped there. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 09, 2022, 07:25:09 AM
CB, thanks for the continued updates,its appreciated.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 10, 2022, 04:47:45 AM
Yvw Jumper,


                    I've now had visual confirmation that Kupyansk,Kharkiv region has been fully liberated from the orcs,with the Ukrainian flag hoisted above the town centre  ;D .


This is huge news as Kupyansk is on top of the orc supply routes ,which means Ukraine now has fire control over the routes.


There is even bigger news, apparently confirmed, but am awaiting visual confirmation.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 10, 2022, 06:55:55 AM
Huge queues of traffic fleeing the Kharkiv region to Belgorod.


Pro-orc sympathisers and collaborators leaving for Russia will make a big improvement to Ukrainian society .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 10, 2022, 08:08:44 AM
Savyntsi,Kharkiv region, and near Izyum, has been liberated by Ukraine from the orcs.
Title: Short lived good news ?
Post by: ML on September 10, 2022, 08:10:52 AM
Sounds like good news. 

But what will happen when the thousands of extra Russian troops arrive on the scene ?
Title: Re: Short lived good news ?
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 10, 2022, 08:29:11 AM
Sounds like good news. 

But what will happen when the thousands of extra Russian troops arrive on the scene ?


Then they'll suffer the same fate as the "elite" Russian troops before them.
Title: Re: Short lived good news ?
Post by: Jumper1 on September 10, 2022, 09:07:38 AM
Sounds like good news. 

But what will happen when the thousands of extra Russian troops arrive on the scene ?

Likely reality of right now? In this climate?


In this type of fast  rout, those RF troops leaving in panic give piss poor info to command,which in russ8an military is crucial.
The incoming RF reinforcement units wont know exactly where to go, or whats going in in any detail, they will be nervous themselves and will face paniced retreating RF troops and ukrainian troops advancing fast.
Retreatimg troops will face friendly fire as a huge possibility and chaos insues.

Thats the most likely thing today.

Now give that a week if things stsbilize and they might add some support to.the battlefield.right now they would more likely add  to.the chaois and increase  thier own causulties .


Ive heard the rf  helo'ed in reinforcements to.izum but afu had already incircled and bypassed in the first.wave.so just let them.helo them.in.. they were trapped regardless.
 Second and third  and 4th wave was clean up.

The AFU is way  further in.my opinion than any map shows.

Nothing verified, but i'd say that lyman ,yampila, most of that izym sector is under afu, again just my opinion.
Russia will be quite  lucky to stop.them at severodonestk today,and who knowx thru the night.
If the manpower  and supplly exists i wouldnt give them.a moments break until.i.reached belgorad
Sheknity and rostov.and took all.close airbases.😅🤣
Semper fi.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 10, 2022, 09:10:27 AM
The most amusing thing ive seen today, and Chesty Puller would love it..
The kherson counter  offensive explained:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 10, 2022, 09:13:22 AM
And this is funny ..
I have no idea if its real.or faked.
But it is amusing
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 10, 2022, 10:20:02 AM
You just knew someone would do it lol

http://youtu.be/nhpfNnqtinE
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 11, 2022, 06:04:05 AM
Russian state tv is saying it's the UK trained Ukrainian troops that have been taking back the Kharkiv region over the past week.


Nice to know  :clapping:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 11, 2022, 09:16:21 AM
Russian state tv is saying it's the UK trained Ukrainian troops that have been taking back the Kharkiv region over the past week.


Nice to know  :clapping:

It is fantastic to see and I think the counteroffensive was waiting on those troops to be available.

I've seen numerous vids, these guys are reacting to  contact like well trained and experienced and well oiled troops.
They immediately take the initiative,the offensive, and don't let the enemy control the situation at all.
Kudos all around to their training and courage.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on September 11, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
The delusions of the Orc supporters at the other place is alive and well. According to one learned Orc supporter this is all psyops and fake news.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 11, 2022, 02:00:48 PM
Izyum and Vovchans'k have both been liberated by Ukrainian troops from the orcs in the Kharkiv region.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 11, 2022, 02:10:06 PM
The delusions of the Orc supporters at the other place is alive and well. According to one learned Orc supporter this is all psyops and fake news.

 :ROFL:


The orc supporters on there,led by the deluded Putler fanboy owner, are particularly prone to spouting pompous rubbish about subjects they think they are experts on, but their posts show they are totally ignorant about everything  .I suspect some of them are going senile.


Fathertime is in good company there now. ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 11, 2022, 08:20:37 PM
I was going to ask there if russian state department was a fake telegram.account :)

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on September 12, 2022, 12:51:43 AM

The orc supporters on there,led by the deluded Putler fanboy owner, are particularly prone to spouting pompous rubbish about subjects they think they are experts on, but their posts show they are totally ignorant about everything  .I suspect some of them are going senile.


Fathertime is in good company there now. ;D

Collaborators, the lot of them. We know what happened to such in in WW2.
I don’t know who FT is over there.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 12, 2022, 08:42:02 AM
Jonas!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LAman on September 12, 2022, 05:27:38 PM
There are reports that there is another front opening around Marinka area toward Donetsk. ???
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 13, 2022, 01:53:02 AM
There are reports that there is another front opening around Marinka area toward Donetsk. ???

Pushing into the Donbass while they have momentum there makes sense to me. After Donbass/Lugansk striking south towards Melitopol & Mariupol would probably be a good choice, it's a long front so difficult for the Orcs to hold a long line and predict where along that line an attack may come from. Attacking Kherson itself never made any sense to me as it's kind of hitting the door full on with a short compact battlefront and then a city full of civilians and entrenched Orcs about at least 20,000 or more apparently. So doesn't surprise me they chose not to do that as like said before it would be easier to go around it and come down from the south and cut it off and hopefully get them to capitulate when supplies run out. Russia's troop morale us apparently as low as ever so on the back of a successful counter-offensive that seems a reasonable surmise.

The rot runs deep in the Russian war machine. Ukraine is exposing it for all to see

http://www.cnn.com/2022/09/13/europe/ukraine-advance-russia-war-analysis-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 13, 2022, 03:01:15 AM
The orcs elite of the elite,it's 1st Guards Tank Army,was crushed in the Ukrainian counter offensive in the Kharkiv region.


These were the troops designated to defend Moscow in the event of war with NATO.


Putler "I've had enough ...send our best troops into Ukraine and show them who's boss "


His henchmen " Err we already sent them in and they're either dead,crippled or pow's.You might find a few survivors running round the woods like headless chickens ".
Title: Some russian troops trying to surrender near Kherson
Post by: ML on September 13, 2022, 06:52:12 AM
True or not . . . I don't know.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/12/2122443/-Some-Russian-troops-near-Kherson-may-be-negotiating-their-surrender?utm_campaign=recent

http://english.nv.ua/nation/some-russian-units-near-kherson-trying-to-surrender-in-ukraine-war-50269440.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/putin-troops-surrender-fever-sweeps-through-ranks-in-ukraine-after-russian-forces-collapse
Title: Chechens sent to Moscow to protect Putin against coup
Post by: ML on September 13, 2022, 07:21:32 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1668201/putin-news-coup-fears-chechens-sent-to-moscow-russia-ukraine-war
Title: Re: Chechens sent to Moscow to protect Putin against coup
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 13, 2022, 12:17:35 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1668201/putin-news-coup-fears-chechens-sent-to-moscow-russia-ukraine-war (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1668201/putin-news-coup-fears-chechens-sent-to-moscow-russia-ukraine-war)


The Daily Express,like many of our UK newspapers,isn't a reliable source of information.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: LAman on September 13, 2022, 03:13:06 PM
Pushing into the Donbass while they have momentum there makes sense to me. After Donbass/Lugansk striking south towards Melitopol & Mariupol would probably be a good choice, it's a long front so difficult for the Orcs to hold a long line and predict where along that line an attack may come from. Attacking Kherson itself never made any sense to me as it's kind of hitting the door full on with a short compact battlefront and then a city full of civilians and entrenched Orcs about at least 20,000 or more apparently. So doesn't surprise me they chose not to do that as like said before it would be easier to go around it and come down from the south and cut it off and hopefully get them to capitulate when supplies run out. Russia's troop morale us apparently as low as ever so on the back of a successful counter-offensive that seems a reasonable surmise.

The rot runs deep in the Russian war machine. Ukraine is exposing it for all to see

http://www.cnn.com/2022/09/13/europe/ukraine-advance-russia-war-analysis-intl-hnk-ml/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2022/09/13/europe/ukraine-advance-russia-war-analysis-intl-hnk-ml/index.html)


The sources I had were Russian. There is a large buildup of soldiers in southern Zap region, unconfirmed by Ukraine. The idea was to take Donetsk city but makes sense to close area down to Mariupol then bomb the Kerch bridge and you'll have tens of thousands soldiers stuck.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 14, 2022, 01:20:11 AM
Apparently millions of $/£ worth of military equipment seized in the Ukrainian counter-offensive up past Kharkiv. Apparently amounts to a billion $/£ in total seized by Ukraine since the start of the war. Tanks, artillery, planes, helicopter, armaments even a top secret electronic jamming device taken in the haul. Russian troops are fleeing en-masse or surrendering to Ukrainian forces, most are inexperienced, unpaid and a complete collapse in morale. If Putler can't reinforce successfully then it looks like Ukraine could end up rolling up the whole Russian line from here. Worth a shot with them pushing as far and as fast as they can to avoid giving time for Russia to reinforce their troops. Looks like the Russian army is in a state of total collapse and potentially victory for Ukraine could suddenly be on the cards!

Russia is looking especially weak now after suffering big losses in the war, it's looking like now is the time to take advantage and not doubt oneself and hammer them hard before winter sets in. Potentially if Ukraine does that it may be able to win this war by late September/October as I don't think Russia really has anything left in it.

Just think by this Christmas we could be seeing sex tours, ahem... I mean love tours back in Kherson :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 14, 2022, 02:44:28 AM
Natalia Humeniuk,spokesperson for command of southern operation,"Almost all of Kherson is now under our(Ukrainian) fire control ".


It ain't looking good for Putler and his Kremlin cronies.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Daveman on September 14, 2022, 07:47:25 PM
Natalia Humeniuk,spokesperson for command of southern operation,"Almost all of Kherson is now under our(Ukrainian) fire control ".


It ain't looking good for Putler and his Kremlin cronies.

Putsollinied on the Kremlin wall would be a rather fitting end.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 15, 2022, 09:11:50 AM
Putsollinied on the Kremlin wall would be a rather fitting end.

Clever, but what is your specific definition of the word ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 19, 2022, 04:09:33 AM
Zelensky today "Last night Russian terrorists attempted to strike the south Ukraine  Nuclear Plant in the Mykolaiv region.A missile fell 300 metres from the plant . "
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on September 19, 2022, 11:34:31 AM
 Russian troops struck the Pivdennoukrainsk nuclear power plant in Ukraine's southern Mykolaiv region early on Monday but its reactors have not been damaged and are working normally, Ukraine's state nuclear company Energoatom said.

A blast took place 300 metres (yards) away from the reactors and damaged power plant buildings shortly after midnight, Energoatom said in a statement. The attack has also damaged a nearby hydroelectric power plant and transmission lines.

"Currently, all three power units of the PNPP (Pivdennoukrainsk Nuclear Power Plant) are operating normally. Fortunately, there were no casualties among the station staff," Energoatom said.

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-says-russia-strikes-pivdennoukrainsk-nuclear-power-plant-reactors-2022-09-19/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 19, 2022, 07:01:58 PM
Putin calls in a fortune teller to get a glimpse of things.

Putin: what does my future hold?

Fortune teller:  i.am sorry president Putin,  i am.afraid but certain that you will pass away on a ukrainian holiday

Putin:
Really? On which  ukrainian holiday?

Fortune teller:
Mr president. any day you die will be a Ukrainian holiday
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 20, 2022, 04:54:35 PM
Looks like Putin is about to employ a fake referendum in the Russian controlled regions, Kherson, Melitopol, Mariupol, the Donbas and Lugansk regions to make them Russian territory. That goes against what he said at the outset that it wasn't about Russia gaining more territory so like Hitler another liar who you can't trust a word that they say. Looks like the idea is to claim those areas as part of Russia then say any further counterattack on those areas will be an Invasion by Ukraine and hence an act of war by Ukraine lol. Thus giving Putler a pretext to formally declare war on Ukraine and hence powers to mobilise and conscript a greater number of Russian men into the Russian Army for the war. That may amount to up to one million men issue is they will be untrained so does Putler use them en-masse to overwhelm the Ukrainian Army or does he instead use WMD, nukes etc to try and win the war.

I can't see Ukraine cease it's counter-offensive and I don't blame them. I wouldn't either even under the threat of nukes as if you go along with Putler he'll just take Ukraine bit by bit anyway so really there is no choice but to fight this one out. I think with a possible threat of WMD's on the horizon the UK/US would be justified in giving a few Nukes to Ukraine. After all we all signed up to the Budapest Memorandum in which Ukraine agreed to give up its Nukes for assurances it would not be attacked but Russia has failed to honour that agreement, only right we give them back some Nukes seeing as that agreement has been broken I think.

Putin announces immediate partial mobilization of Russian citizens

http://edition.cnn.com/webview/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-09-21-22/index.html

http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-news-putins-forces-clearly-in-panic-russia-12541713
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 21, 2022, 05:16:31 AM
NATO and the west must not give in to Putler over Ukraine.


The pundits in the media are talking about giving Putler an off-ramp now.


There is no off-ramp for a man who's broken the Budapest agreement and is a pathological liar....appeasement doesn't work with the likes of him and Hitler.


If we wring our hands and allow the madman to take Donetsk,Luhansk,Kherson and Zaporozhye, where does it end ?


NATO was too soft over him stealing Crimea and now look what's happened.


What's to stop him making a declaration that all Polish citizens must serve as slaves to Russia and if they don't he'll nuke them ?


Ukraine is no less deserving of full NATO support,including nukes,as Poland is.


I'd go further than arming Ukraine with nukes...i'd arm Poland,Latvia,Estonia,Lithuania,Finland with them too,if those countries wanted them....all pointing at Russia,but under the control of NATO forces with the launch codes, outside those countries to prevent rogue factions taking control of them.


Russia needs to be encircled by nukes.....the nuclear threats from Putler are becoming tiresome.


Russians are now trying to flee the country,with all flights to Georgia,Armenia and Turkey being snapped up at five times the normal price...they're not too keen on fighting for the nutjob after seeing what's happened to their "elite" military in Ukraine.
 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 21, 2022, 08:31:59 AM
Up to 10km queues now forming at the Russian border with Finland as the Russians attempt to flee their country.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 21, 2022, 09:36:17 AM
FREEDOM!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 21, 2022, 10:37:57 AM
Up to 10km queues now forming at the Russian border with Finland as the Russians attempt to flee their country.

Must not be too alarming since Russia has not imposed a ban on military age people leaving, as did Ukraine.

But with airlines fully booked, our Big Bill might have trouble getting back out of Russia.

Maybe he will be drafted . . . but not to play basketball.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 21, 2022, 10:45:06 AM
Five British nationals,who have been in captivity by separatists,have been released today.


The UK Government thanked President Zelensky and .....Saudi Arabia ...for their assistance in achieving this.


Makes one wonder what Saudi Arabia's involvement was.


Could they have threatened to collapse Oil prices if the Brits weren't released ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 21, 2022, 04:47:42 PM
Must not be too alarming since Russia has not imposed a ban on military age people leaving, as did Ukraine.

But with airlines fully booked, our Big Bill might have trouble getting back out of Russia.

Maybe he will be drafted . . . but not to play basketball.

Actually I am.pretty sure thec
 What the rada passed overnight does restrict travel of Russian manned military age unless they get a letter from.the local.military branch excusing them for travel.

Im.not 100% on that or when it would take effect but I thought today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 22, 2022, 01:36:46 AM
103 soldiers and five officers,including the Commander and Deputy Commander, from the Azov Battalion were released in a prisoner exchange with Russians yesterday.


Hang on i thought the Azov Battalion were all Nazis according to the Putler fanboys in the other place,and were a major reason the orcs invaded Ukraine ...you know to de-Nazify Ukraine as the site owner loves to claim ?


Seems odd that the fascist orcs are releasing so-called Nazis,as they're going to so much trouble to liberate Ukraine from them.


He'll be gnashing his teeth now  ;D


Ten foreign nationals,including the five Brits and two from the USA, were also released...plus another 80 defenders of Mariupol and Azovstal who were national guards,marines,border guards,policemen,territorial defense,security service employees.


In total 215 pow's were released by the orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 22, 2022, 04:29:03 AM
103 soldiers and five officers,including the Commander and Deputy Commander, from the Azov Battalion were released in a prisoner exchange with Russians yesterday.


Hang on i thought the Azov Battalion were all Nazis according to the Putler fanboys in the other place,and were a major reason the orcs invaded Ukraine ...you know to de-Nazify Ukraine as the site owner loves to claim ?


Seems odd that the fascist orcs are releasing so-called Nazis,as they're going to so much trouble to liberate Ukraine from them.

You do realize the price Ukraine had to pay, right?  It wasn't exactly a goodwill gesture by Russia.

Ukraine had to give up Putin's close personal friend, Medvedchuk.  Putin is godfather to Medvedchuk's daughter.

Try looking at things from Putin's perspective.  What if Putin actually intends to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine?  Perhaps the reason Putin hasn't nuked Ukraine yet is because he was afraid his friend Medvedchuk would get killed in the blast.

And if he just killed the Azov fighters Russia was holding, the world would get in a huff about it.

But if he trades Medvedchuk, he can have him safely back in Russia.  The Azov fighters are returned to Ukraine, where they will die in the nuclear blasts.

At that point, no one will care about the Azov fighters. The collective world will be in such shock that it isn't funny.  If the world realizes that Putin is serious about using nukes...sh*t just got real.  The world will back down and placate him.  I think we all know that Biden won't do anything.  He's too busy trying to shake hands with imaginary people.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 22, 2022, 06:44:24 AM
You do realize the price Ukraine had to pay, right?  It wasn't exactly a goodwill gesture by Russia.

Ukraine had to give up Putin's close personal friend, Medvedchuk.  Putin is godfather to Medvedchuk's daughter.

Try looking at things from Putin's perspective.  What if Putin actually intends to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine?  Perhaps the reason Putin hasn't nuked Ukraine yet is because he was afraid his friend Medvedchuk would get killed in the blast.

And if he just killed the Azov fighters Russia was holding, the world would get in a huff about it.

But if he trades Medvedchuk, he can have him safely back in Russia.  The Azov fighters are returned to Ukraine, where they will die in the nuclear blasts.

At that point, no one will care about the Azov fighters. The collective world will be in such shock that it isn't funny.  If the world realizes that Putin is serious about using nukes...sh*t just got real.  The world will back down and placate him.  I think we all know that Biden won't do anything.  He's too busy trying to shake hands with imaginary people.


Well,actually nuking Ukraine wouldn't kill the released officers of the Azov Battalion,including the Commander and Deputy Commander ....because they'll be held in Turkey until the end of the war..release conditions of Putler who is scared of them commanding Ukraine troops at the front. ;D


As for Medvedchuck...well if Ukraine is nuked it will just mean he dies in Russia instead of Ukraine, because the radiation fallout WILL affect surrounding NATO countries which will trigger article 5 and bye bye Russia.


Of course Putler may well take you,me and everyone else with him..but under article 5 there can be no bending over and placating him.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 22, 2022, 08:11:21 AM
Xcuse moi…

Putin’s BIGGEST miscalculation, in a whole series of miscalculations, was in “timing”
He waited until Nord Stream II was finished BEFORE starting the “Ukrainian Special Operation” Part III, after Crimea, and Donbas….

He prioritized gas deliveries to Europe too much, cuz it's most of his income


If instead, he had launched the Special Operation during Trump’s presidency, and not been delayed because of the gas issue,
the outcome would’ve been hugely different under a Trump Presidency….

But now….

More Russian casualties than Afghanistan, huge loss of equipment, Russian economy will shrink by 12% by end of next year, 300,000 reserves just called up, more resources diverted to military instead of civilian

now both North Stream I and II are turned off, and almost no gas flowing through Ukraine, means only Russian gas that can be sold to Europe is through South Stream

meanwhile, US’s LNG exports are eating into Russia’s former market, and is set to completely replace Russian gas in 5 more years…
Russia sells oil to China now, with a HUGE discount costing Russia $30 per barrel!!!
hundreds of thousands of Russians are FLEEING
Russian Oligarch yachts are  disappearing

so the US ends up with a HUGE stimulus to it’s weapons industry, and indirectly kicks Russia’s ass, without losing a single casualty, and ends up owning Europe’s gas industry

I say, let Biden talk to his imaginary friends, cuz maybe they’re the ones giving him the plan, and so far it’s “kicking ASS”
using Ukraine to fight a war to contain Russia, and WINNING the WAR is a phuqing BRILLIANT IDEA...
doncha think so?

I mean, just think for a minute, what it would mean, if Ukraine actually WON this war!!!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on September 22, 2022, 08:53:22 AM
103 soldiers and five officers,including the Commander and Deputy Commander, from the Azov Battalion were released in a prisoner exchange with Russians yesterday.


Hang on i thought the Azov Battalion were all Nazis according to the Putler fanboys in the other place,and were a major reason the orcs invaded Ukraine ...you know to de-Nazify Ukraine as the site owner loves to claim ?


Seems odd that the fascist orcs are releasing so-called Nazis,as they're going to so much trouble to liberate Ukraine from them.


He'll be gnashing his teeth now  ;D


Ten foreign nationals,including the five Brits and two from the USA, were also released...plus another 80 defenders of Mariupol and Azovstal who were national guards,marines,border guards,policemen,territorial defense,security service employees.


In total 215 pow's were released by the orcs.

"to de-Nazify Ukraine as the site owner loves to claim" -- Not this site owner.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 22, 2022, 10:47:46 AM
Novichok Ethnic Cleanser gets out those tough Ukrainian stains
don't be a starik
Try Novichok!! 
now with 25% more ethnic cleaansing power

a product of Chikatilla Chemie, Rostov
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 22, 2022, 11:59:41 AM
You do realize the price Ukraine had to pay, right?  It wasn't exactly a goodwill gesture by Russia.

Ukraine had to give up Putin's close personal friend, Medvedchuk.  Putin is godfather to Medvedchuk's daughter.

Try looking at things from Putin's perspective.  What if Putin actually intends to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine?  Perhaps the reason Putin hasn't nuked Ukraine yet is because he was afraid his friend Medvedchuk would get killed in the blast.

And if he just killed the Azov fighters Russia was holding, the world would get in a huff about it.

But if he trades Medvedchuk, he can have him safely back in Russia.  The Azov fighters are returned to Ukraine, where they will die in the nuclear blasts.

At that point, no one will care about the Azov fighters. The collective world will be in such shock that it isn't funny.  If the world realizes that Putin is serious about using nukes...sh*t just got real.  The world will back down and placate him.  I think we all know that Biden won't do anything.  He's too busy trying to shake hands with imaginary people.

Medvedchuk is an old guy so he could cark it at any time so his usefulness is probably limited. Possibly he might be brought in to oversee the new Russian territories. I doubt that there is likely to be much of a big win for either side so far as the big picture is concerned, more just another prisoner swap for both sides convenience. With the separatist areas soon to become a part of Russia the argument with the Separatists had jurisdiction over whether the Brits, etc got shot as Mercenaries would no longer hold as it would fall on Russia as their claimed territory. So in that respects it likely became expedient just to let go off that issue.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 22, 2022, 12:11:59 PM
I mean, just think for a minute, what it would mean, if Ukraine actually WON this war!!!

For sure if Ukraine won and left Russia knackered out economically and militarily then that could prove the opportune moment for a break up of the Russian Federation. Generally those that lose wars are most prone to such particularly large empires. So Putler despite wanting to gain more territory may bring about Russia's complete downfall as a result of all of his mis-calculations. Looks like we're going into the winter with this war first, Putler may figure the Ukrainians might be most hard pressed then and use it to strike in with heavy troop numbers, the 300,000. Odds are though this conflict will continue over into 2023 barring any collapse or putsch on the Russian side. I'm guessing then things will come to a head possibly. That or Putler will keep calling up more troops. Russia has a seemingly almost inexhaustible number of men to call up and throw in there possibly Putler is hoping Ukraine will get exhausting along the way if a long conflict seemingly without end and either come to terms or throw in the towel. It's making hard work of it if it goes the distance and of course unfortunately much human suffering and misery along the way with it.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 22, 2022, 02:17:29 PM
As for Medvedchuck...well if Ukraine is nuked it will just mean he dies in Russia instead of Ukraine, because the radiation fallout WILL affect surrounding NATO countries which will trigger article 5 and bye bye Russia.

Radiation drifting across national borders will not trigger Article 5.  If it did, Chernobyl would have triggered Article 5, because radiation drifted around the world.

If radiation drifting across borders triggered Article 5, then airborne pollution drifting across borders could also be deemed an attack.  See my point?

Russians shot down over 1200 US planes in Vietnam.  That didn't trigger Article 5, so why would radiation drifting across a border?

Where do you draw the line of what an attack is?  I don't think NATO would respond militarily to a nuclear strike in Ukraine.  I do think countries would respond with even more severe sanctions, possibly to the point of cutting off all trade with Russia, and probably cancelling all Russian visas.

I do believe Russia (and China) will nuke America into oblivion when America is totally unexpecting it, but we are probably looking at more like 6-8 years in the future.

I am hoping that the partial mobilization is a sufficient escalation to convince the US to provide Ukraine with ATACMS missiles to hit farther into occupied territory, and I hope the US gives Ukraine serious numbers of Abrams tanks and Warthogs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 22, 2022, 03:38:24 PM
Russia's strength in war has generally relied on overwhelming with greater numbers. With Ukraine they failed at the outset partly by not bringing a large enough army to attack and envelope Ukraine from all side as it initially looked like they were aiming for, before the invasion begun. If Ukraine can overcome Russia with help from the west then the biggest gift the west could gain is a break up of the Russian Federation. That would split Russia up into many separate states thereby breaking the ability of any country there to raise a large army and overwhelm and dominate it neighbours. All depends on how this conflict pans out.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 22, 2022, 04:22:42 PM
"to de-Nazify Ukraine as the site owner loves to claim" -- Not this site owner.


Apologies....i should have posted THAT site owner.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 22, 2022, 04:55:15 PM
Radiation drifting across national borders will not trigger Article 5.  If it did, Chernobyl would have triggered Article 5, because radiation drifted around the world.

If radiation drifting across borders triggered Article 5, then airborne pollution drifting across borders could also be deemed an attack.  See my point ?



Chernobyl was a complete accident so not an act of war which triggers article 5.


Russia nuking Ukraine and causing radiation fallout over NATO countries is an act of war which triggers article 5.


Spot the difference ?


Your point about Chernobyl is valid in that the radiation fallout reached as far as the north of UK...which proves my point about radiation fallout from a nuclear strike on Ukraine WILL affect NATO countries....which will lead to the total obliteration of Russia with Nukes coming from the USA,UK and France. >:D .


Bearing in mind the unreliability of Russia's poorly maintained missiles ..as shown by a lot of their missiles fired from Belgorod actually falling out of the sky and hitting Belgorod instead of Ukraine...there's a pretty good chance Russia will also be nuking themselves too. :)


As for your point about Russians shooting down US aircraft in Vietnam,well that isn't an attack on a NATO country,just as NATO supplying Ukraine with weapons to shoot down Russian aircraft  hasn't been considered an  attack on Russia by Putler.


Neither action affected either USA or Russian territory.


A nuclear strike on Ukraine,with Russia knowing full well the radiation fallout will hit NATO countries WILL be considered an attack on NATO,as it affects NATO members territory....and as the USA and UK have both already warned Putler " Nothing will be off the table in our response".


So Putler " Do you feel lucky " ? >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 22, 2022, 08:26:46 PM
I fear Krim may be right that chemical weapons may become Russia's favoured weapon of attack. Word around seems to suggest that is what he may do. Probably on Ukrainian forces mainly I would guess but with the Russians you never know. If possible Ukraine needs to prepare as best it can if not already for these chemical attacks but they may be limited to what they can do to protect themselves.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 23, 2022, 08:30:27 AM
Russia nuking Ukraine and causing radiation fallout over NATO countries is an act of war which triggers article 5.

How would radiation be considered an act of war? It sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

Think about it.  How much radiation drifting across the border is acceptable, and how much is too much?  After all, there is naturally some radiation that is naturally occurring.  Where do you draw the line between what is a tolerable amount of radiation, and what is intolerable?

Quote
which proves my point about radiation fallout from a nuclear strike on Ukraine WILL affect NATO countries....which will lead to the total obliteration of Russia with Nukes coming from the USA,UK and France. >:D .

Once again, wishful thinking.  US nuclear doctrine only permits the use of nukes in the event of a nuclear attack on the US.

Quote
A nuclear strike on Ukraine,with Russia knowing full well the radiation fallout will hit NATO countries WILL be considered an attack on NATO,as it affects NATO members territory....and as the USA and UK have both already warned Putler " Nothing will be off the table in our response".

Where do you get the idea that radioactive fallout will be considered an attack on NATO? 

You don't actually believe everything the talking heads say do you?  Nothing will be off the table is a reference to boots on the ground, military confrontation, and more severe sanctions.  It is not a suicidal wish for mutually assured destruction.

Biden is afraid to do anything without everyone in NATO agreeing.  They had a hard enough time convincing all NATO countries to impose sanctions.  Do you really think they could convince everyone to use nukes on Russia, which would be a guaranteed way to destroy the economies of the NATO member countries?  Most countries are already reeling from the past few years of Covid, etc. 

We're already hearing NATO member countries wanting to encourage a ceasefire now, and allow Russia to keep all the territory it occupies now.  Let people go through a cold winter with low availability of heating fuel, exorbitant high prices when it is available, the continued financial drain of supporting Ukraine, the prospects of an even more severe economic recession, etc...do you really think they will have the stomach to accept much higher levels of pain?

Wealthy folks can handle a hit to their finances.  They don't like it, but they can tolerate it.  They still have enough money to pay the bills and put food on the table.
Poor people can't afford a hit.  As soon as costs start increasing, they start having to prioritize whether they pay bills, food, medicines, etc.  When your life becomes a daily struggle for survival, it's hard to care about the struggles of someone in another country.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 23, 2022, 11:04:46 AM
Well Referendums under way in the occupied regions to join Russia, gee I wonder which way they will vote lol.

My guess is following this Russia will make all citizens Russian citizens, and push forward with further measures of Russification clamping down on all who push against the tide or refuse to go along with it. Odds are I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of men are forcibly conscripted into the Russian armies in these regions (Donbass & Luhansk mostly already have done) and then used as cannon fodder against the Ukrainian forces.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 23, 2022, 12:24:57 PM
How would radiation be considered an act of war? It sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

Think about it.  How much radiation drifting across the border is acceptable, and how much is too much?  After all, there is naturally some radiation that is naturally occurring.  Where do you draw the line between what is a tolerable amount of radiation, and what is intolerable?

Once again, wishful thinking.  US nuclear doctrine only permits the use of nukes in the event of a nuclear attack on the US.

Where do you get the idea that radioactive fallout will be considered an attack on NATO? 

You don't actually believe everything the talking heads say do you?  Nothing will be off the table is a reference to boots on the ground, military confrontation, and more severe sanctions.  It is not a suicidal wish for mutually assured destruction.

Biden is afraid to do anything without everyone in NATO agreeing.  They had a hard enough time convincing all NATO countries to impose sanctions.  Do you really think they could convince everyone to use nukes on Russia, which would be a guaranteed way to destroy the economies of the NATO member countries?  Most countries are already reeling from the past few years of Covid, etc. 

We're already hearing NATO member countries wanting to encourage a ceasefire now, and allow Russia to keep all the territory it occupies now.  Let people go through a cold winter with low availability of heating fuel, exorbitant high prices when it is available, the continued financial drain of supporting Ukraine, the prospects of an even more severe economic recession, etc...do you really think they will have the stomach to accept much higher levels of pain?

Wealthy folks can handle a hit to their finances.  They don't like it, but they can tolerate it.  They still have enough money to pay the bills and put food on the table.
Poor people can't afford a hit.  As soon as costs start increasing, they start having to prioritize whether they pay bills, food, medicines, etc.  When your life becomes a daily struggle for survival, it's hard to care about the struggles of someone in another country.


You seem pretty naive and uninformed about the effects of acute exposure to radiation..i'm not interested in informing you,so i suggest you read up on it.


If you don't think people dying of radiation sickness in NATO because of a nuclear strike by Russia within Europe isn't an act of war then you need help.


As for the USA nuclear doctrine,well watch their response if people in Poland,Estonia,Latvia etc start dying because of radiation sickness caused by Russian hitting Ukraine with a nuke...and be prepared to be shocked and in awe, seeing as that's what you believe.


By the way the USA nuclear doctrine says nothing about nukes only being used in the event of a nuclear attack on the USA as you claim..
The USA actually reserves the right to use nuclear weapons first in the case of conflict.
This bit will particularly enlighten you.
"The USA would only consider the use of nuclear weapons in extreme circumstances to defend the vital interests of the USA, OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS.


Just to clarify....Ukraine is an ally and partner.
Once again i suggest you do some reading...because i shouldn't have to teach you about your own country's nuclear doctrine.


As for NATO's agreement for Nuclear retaliation on Russia ,the USA,France and the UK have nuclear weapons for a reason and they wouldn't need NATO's agreement as Ukraine isn't part of NATO...but IS an ally and partner,hence the huge support being given to that country in this war.


NATO didn't agree to the USA and UK invading Iraq but we still did it.


So the reality for you is that the USA could actually launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Russia if they feel it's warranted in the current conflict.No doubt the USA is constantly monitoring Russia's nuclear activity in readiness for just such an event.


As for the general public....nope no lessening of support for Ukraine here in the UK,,,,still plenty of Ukrainian flags flying everywhere.


We're well aware Russia needs to be defeated ...we all see Putler threatening us with nukes.


Looks like the support for Ukraine is huge in the USA too...i saw a CBS studio audience spontaneously get out of their seats and give a standing ovation for Ukraine when the Ukraine Foreign Minister walked in for an interview this week.
He said i thank you for your reception,but i suspect this was for the Ukrainian people.
At that they all got out of their seats and gave another standing ovation.


By the way you should watch the interview if you can ...one thing in particular he said is that it's human to feel fear,but you need to rise above it to defeat Putin...as the Ukrainians are doing.
It might help you.
I sense fear in your postings,hence your clutching at false straws about the USA will only use nukes if the USA is attacked by nukes....and the public is not really interested in what happens in Ukraine.


Sorry to burst your bubble.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2022, 03:38:11 PM
politics is a combination of chess and poker
sometimes when you're down, you can raise your bet
and hope the higher ante leads to hesitation by the other players (interpreting it as higher risk)
but this is ALWAYS a bluff move, strictly for SHOW...
Putin, is WAY down in this game, and only has a short term strategy of bluffing
the end of the european oil and gas market will be the checkmate move that takes the king
not to mention, the USA's LNG exports will replace all the Russian gas
Russia's oil sells for a steep discount to China compared to Europe

in 5 more years
GAME OVER MAN!
for Russia's oil and gas industry! Dass Va Danya, don't let the door hit you on your jhoppa on your way out!!!
Paka!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 23, 2022, 05:54:03 PM
If you don't think people dying of radiation sickness in NATO because of a nuclear strike by Russia within Europe isn't an act of war then you need help.

But the likelihood of people in NATO dying from radiation sickness because of a nuke used in Ukraine are practically non-existent.

I've visited Chernobyl twice.  I was exposed to more radiation during the flight to Ukraine than I was when I was at the reactor.

Quote
As for the USA nuclear doctrine,well watch their response if people in Poland,Estonia,Latvia etc start dying because of radiation sickness caused by Russian hitting Ukraine with a nuke...and be prepared to be shocked and in awe, seeing as that's what you believe.

But, they're not going to be dying.

Quote
By the way the USA nuclear doctrine says nothing about nukes only being used in the event of a nuclear attack on the USA as you claim..
The USA actually reserves the right to use nuclear weapons first in the case of conflict.
This bit will particularly enlighten you.
"The USA would only consider the use of nuclear weapons in extreme circumstances to defend the vital interests of the USA, OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS.

That's called bluff and bluster.  Let me assure you that the US will not risk a nuclear war over Ukraine.

Quote
Just to clarify....Ukraine is an ally and partner.
Once again i suggest you do some reading...because i shouldn't have to teach you about your own country's nuclear doctrine.

Just to clarify...Ukraine is not a NATO partner, and the US does not have any security guarantees to protect Ukraine.

The written nuclear doctrine is vague and ambiguous.  Don't waste your time reading it.  Talk to people in the know if you want to know what the real doctrine is.

Quote
as Ukraine isn't part of NATO...but IS an ally and partner,hence the huge support being given to that country in this war.

Saying that Ukraine is an ally and partner is vague and ambiguous.  And ally and partner in what ways?  Ukraine is being used as a "justifiable" proxy war against Russia.  That is why it is being given support.

Quote
So the reality for you is that the USA could actually launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Russia if they feel it's warranted in the current conflict.

No, the reality is that the US won't launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Russia over Ukraine.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  The US will never feel a pre-emptive strike is warranted against Russia.

Quote
Looks like the support for Ukraine is huge in the USA too...i saw a CBS studio audience spontaneously get out of their seats and give a standing ovation for Ukraine when the Ukraine Foreign Minister walked in for an interview this week.

LMAO.  You do realize that studio audiences are instructed on how to behave, and TV screens who they want in the audience, right?  Studio audiences are staged performances.

Once a week I travel to the big city. (over a million people.)  Do you know how often I see Ukrainian flags?  I can count on one hand the number of Ukrainian flags I have seen displayed all summer long.  Most folks in the US don't care about Ukrainians, and couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

A lot of Americans over age 30 still think that Ukraine is a part of Russia.  You would be astonished by the number of people who find out that I have been to Ukraine before, and think that I traveled to Russia.

Sorry to burst your bubble.  (And believe me, I live in America and I know American attitudes and beliefs far more than a Brit does.  Don't delude yourself into thinking that you know more about America than an American does.)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2022, 07:41:04 PM
4 trident submarines
2 in the pacific, 2 in the atlantic
contain enough nuclear weapons, to annhilate every major Russian city 20 minutes after launching...
there would be no central Russian government left
and these guys say, that Pootin's talkin BS
OK???

the US doesn't need to supply Ukraine with longer range weapons, just keep the current flow going like they have been!!!
the war is costing Russia $400 million/day vrs maybe $100 million/day for us
but Russia also has personnel and equipment losses
overall, a huge win for us, would be STOOPID of us to stop our enemy from destroying themselves this way, as opposed to using it as an opportunity to do as much damage as possible, but with the most minimum cost to you over the long term

game theory says to do EXACTLY what Biden's imaginary friend told him to do!!!!
praise Jesus!!
and pass the ammunition!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ProfessorJeep on September 23, 2022, 08:54:44 PM
As far as American support for the war goes, I still see it pretty evenly divided on social media along political lines. Just as it has been since the beginning.

Liberals “stand with Ukraine”; conservatives post online about how we should be spending that money at home.

I haven’t looked at surveys or polls, so I’m just talking in anecdotally, and that’s not worth much. But what I’ve seen online still feels about the same as I saw in the beginning.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 23, 2022, 09:51:03 PM
I dont think its clearly divided,other than those not supporting
 tend to be conservative,mostly because of far right talking heads telling them not to.

But many conservatives support ukraine and want the usa to do so.
Countless ex military support ukraine.

So while non supportors tend to one side,that side tends in itself to be divided on this.
Overall in general i see mostly support
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2022, 10:06:59 PM
conservatives post online about how we should be spending that money at home

guess where the money goes for the all the weapons we ship to Ukraine?

directly into the bank accounts of the US's military industrial complex
in other words, IT IS SPENT HERE!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on September 23, 2022, 10:41:50 PM
I am hoping that the partial mobilization is a sufficient escalation to convince the US to provide Ukraine with ATACMS missiles to hit farther into occupied territory, and I hope the US gives Ukraine serious numbers of Abrams tanks and Warthogs.
Russia has an equivalent to Article 5 with CSTO members. Attacking 'liberated' territories post-referenda may lead to Russia requesting support from CSTO members. Lukashenko 'cannot' say no, the Kremlin backed him during the last (disputed) presidential elections; the Belarus army would likely mobilize. Kazakhstan 'cannot' say no as the Russian Federation supported it earlier this year with an attempted coup.

If the Russian Federation declares war on Ukraine - how will it repel an additional 300,000 mobilized troops plus the Belarus army? (Shoigu intimated that Russia can mobilize 25 million if necessary.)

The more things escalate, the more people will die. Sadly there is no hope of a diplomatic resolution on the horizon, though at least with the prisoner swap parties are still communicating.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2022, 02:45:58 AM
Russia has an equivalent to Article 5 with CSTO members. Attacking 'liberated' territories post-referenda may lead to Russia requesting support from CSTO members. Lukashenko 'cannot' say no, the Kremlin backed him during the last (disputed) presidential elections; the Belarus army would likely mobilize. Kazakhstan 'cannot' say no as the Russian Federation supported it earlier this year with an attempted coup.

If the Russian Federation declares war on Ukraine - how will it repel an additional 300,000 mobilized troops plus the Belarus army? (Shoigu intimated that Russia can mobilize 25 million if necessary.)

The more things escalate, the more people will die. Sadly there is no hope of a diplomatic resolution on the horizon, though at least with the prisoner swap parties are still communicating.

I agree with this, Russia is manipulating the situation via the fake Referendums to try and get more forces to the front. It knows it needs way more troops than the initial invasion force it used to overcome Ukraine's forces. I think you're right that Belarus probably won't try to avoid getting dragged in if it sees that Moscow is throwing a lot more troops into the battle and thinks its own input will likely sway matters there. If Belarus attacks from the north then they can strike down towards Lviv. That's a whole new front that Ukraine will have to turn and protect against.

Ukraine has already lost a lot of troops in this war as well as Russia. Ukraine likely has reserves it can call up but aside fro m troop training in the west these will likely be largely untrained and inexperienced troops who will likely need at least quick rudimentary training and mixing in with more experienced troops. Possibly may be as many as 100,000 or so before they've got to turn to the population at large and constript into the army all those it had not, those who already had jobs elsewhere, the less willing to fight, etc. Questions are always abound of whether enough guns exist, rudimentary training availability in such circumstances. Odds are they will be just given a gun and dumped into a trench or similar to try to hold the ground, unfortunately becoming cannon fodder by default in such circumstances. If I was Ukraine, if they haven't already I would mobilize such troops now and get whatever rudimentary training and guns in while they can. They probably won't have much time before the 300,000 arrive and again I think Putler will call up more men in addition to the 300,000 once he annexes Ukrainian territory and Ukraine counterattacks into it. In addition to any CSTO forces he will likely declare it war and hence be able to call up more men in Russia which he will likely do.

The worst thing Ukraine can do at the moment is become complacent over its victories to date. Odds are it is on the verge of facing a massive Russian Army being formed and it needs to get all the men it can to the front to avoid being overwhelmed by force if numbers alone. This may indeed be the most deadly phase of the conflict so far. The west will have to ensure that Ukraine has the small arms it's needs to counter as well as whatever chemical warfare measures are possible. Underestimating Russia at this juncture I feel is both likely and of course fatal to Ukraine.

A few weeks ago a high up British warrant officer in the British Army told troops go see loved ones, priests, etc and prepare to go to war (in Ukraine). It sounded like troops may be in the process of mobilizing to be sent out to Ukraine to fight. That I found an unusual prospect as generally this has been a proxy war with denials issued early on by western nations/NATO that they would be sending troops. However likely they may have had worked out early on from now how Putler would likely play matters and might now be ready to send troops knowing that Ukraine alone might be hard pressed to fend off a massive Russian/CSTO army by itself. The west knows that neither itself nor Russia will use nukes on each other so it's largely down to a ground warfare conflict and it could likely become a free for all for whoever wanting to take part doing so. I think in the next few days & weeks we will likely see this all slotting into place. I as ever am focusing strategically on the dating aspect of this all ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 24, 2022, 04:28:40 AM
But the likelihood of people in NATO dying from radiation sickness because of a nuke used in Ukraine are practically non-existent.

I've visited Chernobyl twice.  I was exposed to more radiation during the flight to Ukraine than I was when I was at the reactor.

But, they're not going to be dying.

That's called bluff and bluster.  Let me assure you that the US will not risk a nuclear war over Ukraine.

Just to clarify...Ukraine is not a NATO partner, and the US does not have any security guarantees to protect Ukraine.

The written nuclear doctrine is vague and ambiguous.  Don't waste your time reading it.  Talk to people in the know if you want to know what the real doctrine is.

Saying that Ukraine is an ally and partner is vague and ambiguous.  And ally and partner in what ways?  Ukraine is being used as a "justifiable" proxy war against Russia.  That is why it is being given support.

No, the reality is that the US won't launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Russia over Ukraine.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  The US will never feel a pre-emptive strike is warranted against Russia.

LMAO.  You do realize that studio audiences are instructed on how to behave, and TV screens who they want in the audience, right?  Studio audiences are staged performances.

Once a week I travel to the big city. (over a million people.)  Do you know how often I see Ukrainian flags?  I can count on one hand the number of Ukrainian flags I have seen displayed all summer long.  Most folks in the US don't care about Ukrainians, and couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

A lot of Americans over age 30 still think that Ukraine is a part of Russia.  You would be astonished by the number of people who find out that I have been to Ukraine before, and think that I traveled to Russia.

Sorry to burst your bubble.  (And believe me, I live in America and I know American attitudes and beliefs far more than a Brit does.  Don't delude yourself into thinking that you know more about America than an American does.)


People dying in NATO from a Russian nuclear strike on Ukraine would depend on where the strike is and the prevailing winds at the time.


Kiev is 431 miles/693km from Poland as the radiation blows.


As for American support for Ukraine,well Jumper is American and he says  "overall in general i see mostly support ".


The same would apply in the UK.


I cannot comment on other NATO countries,although the Hungarian President Orban is pro-Russian,and openly mocks Zelensky.... the EU is threatening to withdraw EU funding from the country due to corruption and anti-democracy issues.


He's recently won another term in office.so one can assume the Hungarian general population agrees with him...unless the vote was rigged of course.


Hungary has also yet to ratify Finland and Sweden joining NATO....surprise surprise.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 24, 2022, 05:10:47 AM
I agree with this, Russia is manipulating the situation via the fake Referendums to try and get more forces to the front. It knows it needs way more troops than the initial invasion force it used to overcome Ukraine's forces. I think you're right that Belarus probably won't try to avoid getting dragged in if it sees that Moscow is throwing a lot more troops into the battle and thinks its own input will likely sway matters there. If Belarus attacks from the north then they can strike down towards Lviv. That's a whole new front that Ukraine will have to turn and protect against.

Ukraine has already lost a lot of troops in this war as well as Russia. Ukraine likely has reserves it can call up but aside fro m troop training in the west these will likely be largely untrained and inexperienced troops who will likely need at least quick rudimentary training and mixing in with more experienced troops. Possibly may be as many as 100,000 or so before they've got to turn to the population at large and constript into the army all those it had not, those who already had jobs elsewhere, the less willing to fight, etc. Questions are always abound of whether enough guns exist, rudimentary training availability in such circumstances. Odds are they will be just given a gun and dumped into a trench or similar to try to hold the ground, unfortunately becoming cannon fodder by default in such circumstances. If I was Ukraine, if they haven't already I would mobilize such troops now and get whatever rudimentary training and guns in while they can. They probably won't have much time before the 300,000 arrive and again I think Putler will call up more men in addition to the 300,000 once he annexes Ukrainian territory and Ukraine counterattacks into it. In addition to any CSTO forces he will likely declare it war and hence be able to call up more men in Russia which he will likely do.

The worst thing Ukraine can do at the moment is become complacent over its victories to date. Odds are it is on the verge of facing a massive Russian Army being formed and it needs to get all the men it can to the front to avoid being overwhelmed by force if numbers alone. This may indeed be the most deadly phase of the conflict so far. The west will have to ensure that Ukraine has the small arms it's needs to counter as well as whatever chemical warfare measures are possible. Underestimating Russia at this juncture I feel is both likely and of course fatal to Ukraine.

A few weeks ago a high up British warrant officer in the British Army told troops go see loved ones, priests, etc and prepare to go to war (in Ukraine). It sounded like troops may be in the process of mobilizing to be sent out to Ukraine to fight. That I found an unusual prospect as generally this has been a proxy war with denials issued early on by western nations/NATO that they would be sending troops. However likely they may have had worked out early on from now how Putler would likely play matters and might now be ready to send troops knowing that Ukraine alone might be hard pressed to fend off a massive Russian/CSTO army by itself. The west knows that neither itself nor Russia will use nukes on each other so it's largely down to a ground warfare conflict and it could likely become a free for all for whoever wanting to take part doing so. I think in the next few days & weeks we will likely see this all slotting into place. I as ever am focusing strategically on the dating aspect of this all ;D


The best orc troops have already been sent to Ukraine...and they're losing.


Therefore i'm not sure how much use 300,000 ,probably unmotivated reservists will be in the grand scheme of things,especially as there must be big doubts over the quality of the military equipment they'll be supplied with,


The new 3rd Army Putler formed to reinforce his flagging troops in Ukraine were the first to run in Ukraine's counter-offensive in the Kharkiv region..so no reason to think these 300,000 will be any better,


I suspect a few HIMARS strikes causing carnage  among them will soon have them on their bikes and legging it.


Belarus troops will probably be unmotivated and Russia has already taken...and lost...a lot of their military equipment.
Lukashenko is also walking on very thin ice with his people....sending too many troops to Ukraine could well result in a coup against him while he's weakened.
Belarus volunteers fighting in Ukraine are praying he'll actually send troops into Ukraine so they can smash them and leave Lukashenko on his knees and ripe for his removal as President.


Would be hilarious if a new President is pro NATO and applies to join..imagine Putler's and Lavrov's faces : ))


Regarding the UK sending troops to help Ukraine i doubt that will happen unless the Ukrainian troops are seen to be struggling and there's no sign of that yet...it's the orcs who are retreating and fighting to hold their positions.


Then again our new PM does,quite rightly, intensely dislike Putler and his Kremlin...so who knows ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2022, 06:12:53 AM

The best orc troops have already been sent to Ukraine...and they're losing.


Therefore i'm not sure how much use 300,000 ,probably unmotivated reservists will be in the grand scheme of things,especially as there must be big doubts over the quality of the military equipment they'll be supplied with,


The new 3rd Army Putler formed to reinforce his flagging troops in Ukraine were the first to run in Ukraine's counter-offensive in the Kharkiv region..so no reason to think these 300,000 will be any better,


I suspect a few HIMARS strikes causing carnage  among them will soon have them on their bikes and legging it.


Belarus troops will probably be unmotivated and Russia has already taken...and lost...a lot of their military equipment.
Lukashenko is also walking on very thin ice with his people....sending too many troops to Ukraine could well result in a coup against him while he's weakened.
Belarus volunteers fighting in Ukraine are praying he'll actually send troops into Ukraine so they can smash them and leave Lukashenko on his knees and ripe for his removal as President.


Would be hilarious if a new President is pro NATO and applies to join..imagine Putler's and Lavrov's faces : ))


Regarding the UK sending troops to help Ukraine i doubt that will happen unless the Ukrainian troops are seen to be struggling and there's no sign of that yet...it's the orcs who are retreating and fighting to hold their positions.


Then again our new PM does,quite rightly, intensely dislike Putler and his Kremlin...so who knows ?

Yeah I don't think she was treated well by them last time she was in Moscow and their jibes towards her riding a tank probably didn't go down well.

The 300,000 will likely be the thin end of the wedge, we're likely talking many troops from CSTO countries and a bigger call up in Russia of the back of the 300,000. The 300,000 are pretty much all ex-military so trained and likely some will be used to enforce a bigger call up along with Police, etc. I wouldn't underestimate them, becoming over confident was Russia's initial mistake and Ukraine need to ensure it doesn't become theirs. Ukraine was able to manipulate a lucky break around Kharkiv but along the rest of the front they are hard pressed against heavy numbers already. Ukraine will have lost a lot of their professional army also and will training is taking place now is the time it really needs to dig deep, way deep and call up as many men as it can to the front to see off the massive army Russia is now forming. 300,000 troops in itself is not a trifle so I wouldn't underestimate them, then they will likely be added too by CSTO maybe another 200,000, then possibly another call up in Russia calling forth probably at least 500,000 or more. Odds are we are probably talking an Army of around 1 million men headed to Ukraine before the year is out, probably within the next month or so. 1 Million troops is going to be very hard for the Ukrainians to hold off, they'll be needing to up their troop numbers significantly also. Failing to do so will mean that they are overwhelmed by force of numbers. HIMARS are really limited to specific high value targets, sure some missiles can be sent in but Ukraine can't afford to use many of these missiles up like that as their expensive and limited and can only take out so many troops at any one time.

Historically Russia has focused on using force of numbers to win in conflicts. Here it has become the fallback strategy but it's a significant threat that Ukraine needs to take seriously. It can't afford to think that how it has been winning to date will still work against a massive army perhaps as much as ten times the size it is currently facing. If it does I fear that come Winter Ukraine may unfortunately not be doing so well and will be desperately trying to call up troops as it's lines crack under the pressure of massive numbers of troops storming in and hitting them. Now is the time Ukraine needs to act before it is too late!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 24, 2022, 06:44:50 AM
Here's a couple of comments from Russian Telegram,regarding the 300,000 new recruits.


"The first wave,who arrived in Khabarovsk, are flying back to Yakutsk.Many are unfit due to health and age.Those who stay are taken to the military unit.
In Khabarovsk, they are shocked that Yakutia is sending everyone indiscriminately."


"The military prosecutor's office is carrying checks in some regions against individuals involved in mobilisation,with subsequent prosecution.To get the numbers ,they recruited blind,deaf,and even those who did not serve,and in addition the old ones ".


Nope i'm not hearing about any new elite stormtroopers itching to get at the Ukrainian forces  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 24, 2022, 06:56:22 AM
How much has mobilization added to russian economy, those local centers  in poor provinces are getting some decent bribes,can you imagine in st peye amd mosciw 8f they ever start there?
Its every russian recruiting officers dream come true
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 24, 2022, 07:04:12 AM
Russia has an equivalent to Article 5 with CSTO members. Attacking 'liberated' territories post-referenda may lead to Russia requesting support from CSTO members. Lukashenko 'cannot' say no, the Kremlin backed him during the last (disputed) presidential elections; the Belarus army would likely mobilize. Kazakhstan 'cannot' say no as the Russian Federation supported it earlier this year with an attempted coup.

If the Russian Federation declares war on Ukraine - how will it repel an additional 300,000 mobilized troops plus the Belarus army? (Shoigu intimated that Russia can mobilize 25 million if necessary.)

The more things escalate, the more people will die. Sadly there is no hope of a diplomatic resolution on the horizon, though at least with the prisoner swap parties are still communicating.

With most oblasts not fully held, and 15% turn out rate for voting, armed guards walking with the electorial people to flats,  its a total shame and everyone knows it.

Russia invaded, russia is now  mobilizing,so who is esacalting? The defenders ,defending more strongly ?


As far as CSTO,
Kadyrov already stated he wont do it,he has met his quota.

The other members like to run their lips,at the west ,but unlikely to wsnt yo deal with public push back of avtially mobilizing
Because they are basically unfriendly to the usa,  than they are actual allies of russia.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 24, 2022, 07:11:01 AM
I've just seen a selfie video from the Kavalerovsky enlistment office..it's one of the funniest things i've ever seen..pure comedy gold.


The seriously unimpressed Russian guy is saying "Here's i,we're going to the frontline.This is the state we're all going.All the guys are in this state." as he pans around to show old men and comatose drunks.


I've also now seen three videos of the equipment being supplied to the new recruits.....seriously rusty Kalashnikov's' ;D


"These are the assault rifles we're getting.
(Background)  Wow .What are the pistols we're getting .F*cking hell.
This is f*cked.I'm in f*cking awe."..is the comments from one of the video's.


You can see by the way he's handling the rifle he's no novice...and this is the thanks he gets for previous military service.




I'm starting to feel sorry for these guys....i never thought i would for Russians...but they have no chance,many will be KIA on the first day,and they were conscripted,not volunteers.


They need to kill their commanding officer when they arrive at the front and immediately surrender to the Ukrainians.Maybe join the Freedom of Russia Legion and pay-back Putler for what he's doing to them.


I've also now seen that conscripts are receiving summons at 3 am and given three hours to pack.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on September 24, 2022, 08:53:14 AM

I've also now seen that conscripts are receiving summons at 3 am and given three hours to pack.


Not surprising. This why why the referendum is being conducted. By claiming the occupied areas as Russian territory the govt. can now legally deploy any and all conscripts in those territories and even into combat....
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2022, 09:06:34 AM
Here's a couple of comments from Russian Telegram,regarding the 300,000 new recruits.


"The first wave,who arrived in Khabarovsk, are flying back to Yakutsk.Many are unfit due to health and age.Those who stay are taken to the military unit.
In Khabarovsk, they are shocked that Yakutia is sending everyone indiscriminately."


"The military prosecutor's office is carrying checks in some regions against individuals involved in mobilisation,with subsequent prosecution.To get the numbers ,they recruited blind,deaf,and even those who did not serve,and in addition the old ones ".


Nope i'm not hearing about any new elite stormtroopers itching to get at the Ukrainian forces  :rolleyes:

I doubt it's about elite stormtroopers it's more about an en-masse mobilization to get the numbers up. Sure some will be too old/unfit for anything, some will only be good to train others or work in support operations. I pretty much expect that there will be another mobilization announced after the annexation when Ukrainian forces continue to push you in. Putler will declare it an act of war and declare war himself enabling him to conscript a lot of men, these will be untrained men, young men, the unemployed (possibly as a result of the effect on Russia's economy) and possibly a whole age range call up with possible get outs or not. They'll then give those guys rudimentary training shove whatever weapon they can find probably Kalashnikov's into their hands and shove them to the front. Odds are Russia will buy any extra small arms from China or North Korea it needs. Again it's not really about 'quality' of forces we're talking here but 'quantity'. If you outnumber the enemy by 10-1 that means you can have ten men charging at each Ukrainian soldier. Odds are it's going to be difficult for that Ukrainian soldiers to kill all 8,9 or 10 of them before they get to him. Then of course there may be chemical weapons or WMD's of all sorts used before Russian forces go it to mop up.

I would like to believe it's going to end up a pathetic farce as it may at the moment look but I just think that Ukraine shouldn't underestimate a farcical looking enemy in case it suddenly turns out otherwise.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on September 24, 2022, 09:19:08 AM
I agree with this, Russia is manipulating the situation via the fake Referendums to try and get more forces to the front. It knows it needs way more troops than the initial invasion force it used to overcome Ukraine's forces. I think you're right that Belarus probably won't try to avoid getting dragged in if it sees that Moscow is throwing a lot more troops into the battle and thinks its own input will likely sway matters there. If Belarus attacks from the north then they can strike down towards Lviv. That's a whole new front that Ukraine will have to turn and protect against.

Ukraine has already lost a lot of troops in this war as well as Russia. Ukraine likely has reserves it can call up but aside fro m troop training in the west these will likely be largely untrained and inexperienced troops who will likely need at least quick rudimentary training and mixing in with more experienced troops. Possibly may be as many as 100,000 or so before they've got to turn to the population at large and constript into the army all those it had not, those who already had jobs elsewhere, the less willing to fight, etc. Questions are always abound of whether enough guns exist, rudimentary training availability in such circumstances. Odds are they will be just given a gun and dumped into a trench or similar to try to hold the ground, unfortunately becoming cannon fodder by default in such circumstances. If I was Ukraine, if they haven't already I would mobilize such troops now and get whatever rudimentary training and guns in while they can. They probably won't have much time before the 300,000 arrive and again I think Putler will call up more men in addition to the 300,000 once he annexes Ukrainian territory and Ukraine counterattacks into it. In addition to any CSTO forces he will likely declare it war and hence be able to call up more men in Russia which he will likely do.

The worst thing Ukraine can do at the moment is become complacent over its victories to date. Odds are it is on the verge of facing a massive Russian Army being formed and it needs to get all the men it can to the front to avoid being overwhelmed by force if numbers alone. This may indeed be the most deadly phase of the conflict so far. The west will have to ensure that Ukraine has the small arms it's needs to counter as well as whatever chemical warfare measures are possible. Underestimating Russia at this juncture I feel is both likely and of course fatal to Ukraine.

A few weeks ago a high up British warrant officer in the British Army told troops go see loved ones, priests, etc and prepare to go to war (in Ukraine). It sounded like troops may be in the process of mobilizing to be sent out to Ukraine to fight. That I found an unusual prospect as generally this has been a proxy war with denials issued early on by western nations/NATO that they would be sending troops. However likely they may have had worked out early on from now how Putler would likely play matters and might now be ready to send troops knowing that Ukraine alone might be hard pressed to fend off a massive Russian/CSTO army by itself. The west knows that neither itself nor Russia will use nukes on each other so it's largely down to a ground warfare conflict and it could likely become a free for all for whoever wanting to take part doing so. I think in the next few days & weeks we will likely see this all slotting into place. I as ever am focusing strategically on the dating aspect of this all ;D
The bolded bit tells all one needs to know regarding your knowledge of matters military.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 24, 2022, 09:30:55 AM
The orcs have now started selling their military equipment to Ukrainian forces...


Russian soldiers sold several armoured vehicles to the Ukrainian Army in Vyskopillya area.


The exchange happened in early September without incident.


This comes from the head of the Mykolaiv administration.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2022, 10:36:59 AM
The bolded bit tells all one needs to know regarding your knowledge of matters military.

I know warrant officer's are not particularly high up the pecking order but among warrant officer's he was highly positioned and respected. That he went to pass such info onto the soldiers around him likely suggests that there may be something to it.

Who knows maybe Russia'a army is as busted as it currently looks. That would indeed be an interesting situation but I'm not totally convinced that we've seen the whole deal here. I think that potentially Putler may try to win this war on a numbers basis and/or whatever else he can find to use that might grant him victory. There's no backing out for him as if he tries that he knows he is finished anyway so he'll likely push it with all that he can.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 24, 2022, 04:46:15 PM
Horrendous day for the Russian Air Force in the last 24 hours.


SU-25,Two SU-30,SU-34 all shot down in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 25, 2022, 02:03:16 PM
Russia has an equivalent to Article 5 with CSTO members. Attacking 'liberated' territories post-referenda may lead to Russia requesting support from CSTO members.

Fearmongering BS.  Russia isn't going to nuke Ukraine or demand other countries enter the war over the sham referendums or attacks on illegally annexed territories.  Quit trying to go down that rabbithole.  It ain't gonna happen.

Are you forgetting that Russia held sham referendums and illegally annexed Crimea?  There's been attacks on Crimea during this war.

No nukes, no mobilizing other countries, etc.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 25, 2022, 02:09:10 PM
Ukraine now has NASAMS. ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 25, 2022, 02:12:01 PM

People dying in NATO from a Russian nuclear strike on Ukraine would depend on where the strike is and the prevailing winds at the time.


Kiev is 431 miles/693km from Poland as the radiation blows.

How long will it take the radiation to kill them?  50 years?

Look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  It was only people within a few miles of ground zero who died.

400 miles from ground zero?  You're pretty safe.

But if Putin uses a nuke, he's not going to be dropping Tsar Bomba on Kyiv.  If Russia was going to use a nuke in Ukraine, it would probably be a high altitude EMP nuke to wipe out electronics.  No deaths. No radiation.

Personally, I don't think knocking out US satellites over Ukraine would be considered an Article 5 attack on a Nato country.  The citizens don't have the stomach to go to war over a few satellites going down.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 25, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
While an emp is more likely , whats the odds russia will risk what coulds be confused at time of launch or detonation?

Huge risk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on September 25, 2022, 03:21:23 PM
I think you're both grasping at straws. It's not radiation drift clouds or an EMP to be concerned about. If Putin launches an nuclear attack you can rest assure it's going to be a radiation blast at a population center for maximum effect. My guess would be London. We should all be worried that such an attack can easily happen and be attributed to Putin. Once the first one is triggered, no matter who does it likely many more will follow coming from places not even involved in the Ukraine conflict.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 25, 2022, 05:12:03 PM
I've been thinking for quite some time that Russia is as likely to fire a nuke at a destination other than Ukraine.


I didn't post my thoughts as i didn't want to be thought of as an alarmist.


It could be London or it could be where he perceives the biggest threat to his ambitions is,and the biggest source of Ukrainian opposition to him...the USA.


Hitting London would still leave Russia open to huge retaliation from the USA.Hitting the USA in the right places would crush the opposition in his mind i suspect.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 25, 2022, 05:41:14 PM
I read . . . don't know where, but probably Wall Street Journal . . . that USA has 2 nuclear subs in Atlantic and 2 nuclear subs in Pacific with enough nuclear bombs to destroy every major Russian city.

I am sure the ruskies know this also.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 26, 2022, 02:14:19 AM
US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan said on Sunday that the US would respond decisively to any Russian use of nuclear weapons against Ukraine,and that it had spelled out to Moscow the "catastrophic consequences"it would face.


"If Russia crosses this line ,there will be catastrophic consequences for Russia.The United States will respond decisively ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 26, 2022, 04:30:30 AM
Reports ( there is gruesome video on Telegram ) of a failed orc counter offensive at Kupyansk.


Reports are fresh conscripts ( presumably from the 300,000 ),no body armour,lightly armed,charged Ukrainian lines head-on,no tactics,it was a massacre.


I have seen video of one orc survivor...young guy lying on his back and crying his eyes out...blubbing something in orcishness.


I doubt the Stalingrad tactics will work for the orcs in Ukraine..especially when the temperatures hit -20 to -30 there in the winter,as i'm not seeing them being supplied with winter clothing.


If NATO draws this out i foresee millions of orcs being massacred in UKraine...maybe that's the plan...to make them extinct.


A shortage of working-age men will leave Russian industry on it's knees.



Looks like there will be a huge shortage of Russian men for you to compete against,  if you fancy your chances in Russia, when this war eventually ends Trench.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on September 26, 2022, 05:10:01 AM
A shortage of working-age men will leave Russian industry on it's knees.

What industry?  lol

Actually, Russia does have some industry...and almost all of it is in Kaliningrad.

From what I can tell, it appears that Russia is getting conscripts from remote, impoverished rural areas.  These aren't the guys who would have worked in industry anyways.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 26, 2022, 05:20:08 AM
What industry?  lol

Actually, Russia does have some industry...and almost all of it is in Kaliningrad.

From what I can tell, it appears that Russia is getting conscripts from remote, impoverished rural areas.  These aren't the guys who would have worked in industry anyways.


I have a female contact in St Petersburg.


She has male friends who've been receiving mobilisation summons at their places of work.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on September 26, 2022, 05:46:12 PM
I read . . . don't know where, but probably Wall Street Journal . . . that USA has 2 nuclear subs in Atlantic and 2 nuclear subs in Pacific with enough nuclear bombs to destroy every major Russian city.

I am sure the ruskies know this also.


I served 20yrs in the Navy. All of them in the Trident SSBN service. One Trident sub can carry 24 missiles with each missile with the capacity to hold 7 MIRVs. One Trident sub alone (mind you that there are at least 15 Tridents in service) can level pretty much all major Russian cities. Any kind of Nuclear attack by anyone side is a no win situation for all. Putin knows this and so do his generals. There are a lot of different people to go through before a nuke is launched. Putin is desperate and bluffing because this invasion will be his undoing.....
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on September 26, 2022, 08:38:19 PM
Fearmongering BS.  Russia isn't going to nuke Ukraine or demand other countries enter the war over the sham referendums or attacks on illegally annexed territories.  Quit trying to go down that rabbithole.  It ain't gonna happen.

Are you forgetting that Russia held sham referendums and illegally annexed Crimea?  There's been attacks on Crimea during this war.

No nukes, no mobilizing other countries, etc.
I said nothing of nukes in my last post.

What I stated is CSTO members can call upon other members for military support. Kazakhstan did so in January and Russia obliged. I'm not sure if Armenia have made a formal request with the current conflict there.

If Russia considers newly acquired territories as part of the Russian Federation, it doesn't matter what others believe or how legitimate (or otherwise) the referenda. It becomes Russia under the CSTO agreements. Attacking these territories may pull Belarus into the conflict.

Then what?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on September 27, 2022, 12:19:03 AM

If Russia considers newly acquired territories as part of the Russian Federation, it doesn't matter what others believe or how legitimate (or otherwise) the referenda. It becomes Russia under the CSTO agreements. Attacking these territories may pull Belarus into the conflict.

Then what?

Have all the CSTO countries officially recognized Crimea or other areas in UA claimed by Russia as belonging to Russia?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 27, 2022, 03:11:40 AM
Kazakhstan has said it will refuse to accept the referendum results in Ukraine.


Serbia has said the same.


Even it's allies don't trust Russia,and know how Putler and his Kremlin lie.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 27, 2022, 03:22:00 AM

I served 20yrs in the Navy. All of them in the Trident SSBN service. One Trident sub can carry 24 missiles with each missile with the capacity to hold 7 MIRVs. One Trident sub alone (mind you that there are at least 15 Tridents in service) can level pretty much all major Russian cities. Any kind of Nuclear attack by anyone side is a no win situation for all. Putin knows this and so do his generals. There are a lot of different people to go through before a nuke is launched. Putin is desperate and bluffing because this invasion will be his undoing.....


Let's hope the people who give the order to launch nukes in Russia have people they care about and don't want them being nuked in response.


The problem is Russians are generally a cold people and Putler may well have put the most cold-hearted among them in charge of the nuke orders.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 27, 2022, 04:18:18 AM
Mobilised Russians are calling the Ukrainian hotline to find out about surrendering,and the numbers are increasing.


Ukraine MOD.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 27, 2022, 05:08:30 AM
Newly mobilised orcs are being sent to the front with no training....at all.


A Russian has done a selfie telling how he's being sent to Kherson to join the 1st Tank Regiment and the new recruits have officially been told there will be no training.


Russia must be in a truly desperate state.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on September 27, 2022, 05:58:07 AM
Have all the CSTO countries officially recognized Crimea or other areas in UA claimed by Russia as belonging to Russia?

Quote
Kazakhstan will ensure the care and safety of Russians fleeing a "hopeless situation," the president of the Central Asian country said on Tuesday, as Russian men fled the Ukraine military call-up.

"Recently we've had many people from Russia coming here," Kassym-Jomart Tokayev was quoted as saying by his press service.

"Most of them are forced to leave because of the hopeless situation. We must take care of them and ensure their safety," he added.

"This is a political and humanitarian issue," he said.

The Kazakh leader also condemned Moscow's invasion of Ukraine and called for respect of territorial integrity, as Russia held annexation referendums in four Ukrainian regions.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/09/27/ukraine-war-as-its-happening-a76553

Kazakhstan is a CSTO country or?  Seems they might not consider any new territories as part of Russia.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on September 27, 2022, 06:12:48 AM
It becomes Russia under the CSTO agreements. Attacking these territories may pull Belarus into the conflict.
Then what?
Belarus has at best 35k effective strength. None of those soldiers will fight for Putin or Lukashenko for that matter. If Belarus gets involved, it will mean the end of Luka's regime as well which is currently not too far off once Putin goes down.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on September 27, 2022, 08:17:35 AM
Belarus has at best 35k effective strength. None of those soldiers will fight for Putin or Lukashenko for that matter.

What is the logic/proof of your concept ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on September 27, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Well, Belarus at one point was on the verge of joining the Russian attack early in the war. their total armed forces strength is at most 60k (army and air force). Many of the Belarussian troops refused to fight. Many officers were threatening to resign. One unit even crossed the border and joined the Ukrainian army to fight the Russians. All of this is old news. Almost all of Belarus hates Lukashenko. The only reason he remains in power is because Putin sent in his OMON troops to quell the protests after the elections.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 28, 2022, 07:40:07 AM
Those traitors in the Donbass and Kherson! They've only just voted to join Russia!!! Believe me I was completely beside myself when the news came in, how could they do this!

Apparently also Beel should leave Russia as soon as poss so his country says if he hasn't managed to already, that or be pressed into the Russian Army perhaps, hmmnn... :-\

http://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/28/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-west-rejects-referendum-results-nord-stream-sabotage-denounced
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on September 28, 2022, 08:19:47 AM

Apparently also Beel should leave Russia as soon as poss so his country says if he hasn't managed to already, that or be pressed into the Russian Army perhaps, hmmnn... :-\


Russia isn't desperate enough to want old men like me for their army.
They have multi millions of men who are of military age, who are citizens,
that they could legally draft who are also native Russian speakers.

Fighting in wars is for the young. I am back in Texas and beyond the reach
of Russian draft boards.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 28, 2022, 09:10:37 AM
Russia isn't desperate enough to want old men like me for their army.
You think :ROFL:

Apparently a lot of the 300,000 men they are calling up are old men, compared to them like an AFA tour bus you'd likely be one of the younger ones, lol.

Anyway good to hear you're safe & sound out of Russia Bill, I wouldn't want to be there right now as it looks like the sh*t could be hitting the fan in many a way.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on September 28, 2022, 06:43:50 PM
After the recent revolts in Dagestan its rumored that unofficially* mobilization has ceased.

Funny, if the other ethnic regions of russia that have been over represented in causulties in this conflict see that the squeaky wheel.gets the grease what will occur?

Chechnya's Kadyrov says he wint mobilize as he has sent enough.
Kazakhstan is  officially announced that it is welcoming russian men that fled Russia...


So Russia has now put up mobilization centers at the border crossings.



For those that dont read cyrillic  the sign  is a play in words that says:
 no to mobilization , with the b* crossed thru and replaced  it says,  no to gravezation.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on September 29, 2022, 05:32:25 AM
http://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1575149819454279681?t=RwxfuwPSbpHBncOrfDwAdQ&s=19

The fake subtitles here are like the best Downfall parodies.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 01, 2022, 03:05:32 PM
The town of Lyman,Donetsk region was liberated from the orcs today.


This was a very important logistical hub for the  orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on October 04, 2022, 10:38:34 PM
Over 30.kilometers advance and liberation of many villages in.khersin oblast .
The AFU continues to make rapid progress,over.terrian it took russian months to occupy.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 05, 2022, 02:27:06 AM
There are good gains in the North, Lyman seems to indicate that the Russian troops there are perhaps not well trained, equipped and/or broken morale. Many fled as fast as they can dropping their stuff as they went. Pushing home there is probably the thing to do as unless Russia can quickly reinforce with better resources then Ukraine can keep taking ground quickly if the same smashed forces.

Ukraine broken through the lines north of Kherson but are still a very long way from the city, about 70 miles so they are unlikely to reach Kherson anytime soon. Still it shows that the HIMARS are making a real difference by taking out Russia's artillery advantage thereby weakening Russian forces considerably.

The US are going to supply some more advanced weaponry which I think is the right thing to do. Russian forces seem weak at the moment so hitting them harder now could end the conflict sooner and prevent a long drawn out conflict - that will be better for Ukraine and the West in general. It will probably be getting colder once we get to November so will have to see how things go. Potentially though with the HIMARS weakening Russia considerably one big push to an enemy with a poor morale may make the whole lot break and run.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 06, 2022, 12:44:02 PM
The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today.


"The enemy must be destroyed here and now...and we can do that "


I'm sure someone in Ukraine is reading my posts on here and passing them on. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 07, 2022, 11:40:14 AM
Regarding previous comments on here about the USA public's support for Ukraine in the war against the orcs.


Reuters poll shows 73% of American citizens believe that the USA must continue supporting Ukraine despite Russian threats to use Nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on October 07, 2022, 01:06:22 PM
Reuters poll shows 73% of American citizens believe that the USA must continue supporting Ukraine despite Russian threats to use Nuclear weapons.

Good news, at this point.

However the percent will probably decrease as time goes on.

Just this morning, two blue collar workers were out working on extending a water line.

I asked if they knew anything about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

One guy said he had heard nothing about such an event.  Upon questioning, he said he didn't read newspapers, didn't listen to news on radio or TV and never surfed the internet.

The other guy said he had heard something about it, but hoped USA didn't get involved because it was none of our concern.

- - - - - - -

In Europe the percent supporting is probably much less than 73%, and will decrease substantially as winter sets in.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 07, 2022, 01:23:08 PM
Pootin, is a cagey player, but a sly one...
he has already decided that the West will not go "all the way" to save Ukraine
that gives him an advantage in the game, if he decides to go "all in" and attack with WMDs
he knows the west will not respond at the same level
again, an advantage
the West's strategy is to support Ukraine at minimal costs
weapon costs are a boon to the US economy as factories are working extra shifts to keep up with demand, so our economy doesn't face any real hardships for shipping billions of $ worth of weapons to Ukrainia
and each dollar we spend on weapons probably does $50 worth of damage to Russia, an economy 1/10 the size of the US's
considering the annual cost of our military budget, year-after-year, and consider that a fraction of that is for "dealing with Russia"  then you realize what a "tremendous opportunity" this has been for the US to seriously degrade one of the two "near peer" militaries" in the world...
a huge cost-benefit for the US for supporting Ukraine

provinding that the war doesn't ecalate!!!

so Pootin's goal will now be to escalate and "up the ante" of the bet
so besides WMDs there will be a second round of mobilization with the goal of militarizing all of Russia, to make ANY signs of protest immediately disappear
meanwhile Russia will have massive purges and backstabbing, no one will be safe
more Russians will fall out of windows or commit suicide
and I just sit here in the Gulf of Mexico biding my time
until I make my triumphant return to Moscow with my "crew"

PS
the Ukrainian attack on the airbase at Saki, was NOT a missile attack!!!
it was an attack by Ukrainian Special forces
whose leader is called the "Shaman"
and that's all I can say about that...


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 08, 2022, 02:35:53 AM
The US has indeed tons of weapons alone in their army just sitting around that it doesn't really need. The number of HIMARS alone sent to Ukraine are small compared to what they have, let alone the huge stockpiles of other advanced weaponry it holds. In addition the US military holds a vast amount of nuclear warheads numbering in the many thousands, far more than it actually needs and could obliterate Russia & China many times over.

So it 'could' give a hundred or so Nuclear warheads to Ukraine and it wouldn't even notice it. That would stop Putler in his tracks as he would know that any WMD attack could result in a Nuke being fired off by Ukraine in kind perhaps at an out the way large military facility to begin with as a warning shot. Putler would also know that if he were to get too far into invading Ukraine again Ukraine could fire off Nuke(s). Russia has breached the Budapest Memorandum by invading Ukraine and annexing its territory that much is clear so that agreement and the Nuclear non-proliferation that goes with it is essentially null and void. So Ukraine by my reasoning is entitled to get nukes back. That off course would finish this conflict and see Russian forces scuttling back across the Ukrainian border. The US giving Ukraine loads of its advanced weaponry that is currently just sat around with nowhere to go would obliterate Russia's army quickly our of Ukraine. The US has no real need for much of its military equipment as no-one is going to attack the US with its massive nuclear capability. The stuff is only really for occasional exploits abroad and to give it's pals in the arms industry money. Over time all weaponry gets replaced by more advanced weaponry anyway.

So the US could easily hand Ukraine a decisive victory one way or another but chooses not to. In that respect I have to agree with Krim that a lot of it seems to be more about big profits for the Arms industry. It knows that if it gives Ukraine enough weaponry to give Russia a hard time that Russia will keep pouring in troops to avoid it getting kicked out of Ukraine altogether. The makes Russia weak the more it does that and Arms merchants rich. Russia's army is basically too clapped out to be a match for western weaponry not unless it field huge numbers of men in the field to overwhelm.

Personally I think the 300,000 men or any part of that which they manage to bring to the field is probably more about keeping in the game for the meantime. Odds are it's also about having a standing army with which to conscript larger amounts of Russian men when the time comes and that may come soon. Other than WMD's massively outnumbering the Ukrainian forces is the only possible way Russia is likely to be able to win in Ukraine now. It's how the Soviet Union won against Nazi Germany by sheer weight of numbers alone.

Whether Putler will use WMD's I am not so sure. Ukraine's problem there is that it has as yet nothing on that scale it can fire back so they are in an inferior position on that one. They can't however back down as Putler is a bully and will just take more and more over time so they essentially have to just hope he doesn't and if he does suffer whatever is sent in their direction. Partly it all depends on what WMD's will be used, possibly not nuclear but at least somewhat large scale destructive weapons nonetheless, hyper-thermal barbic missiles, etc. Putler probably won't use nukes unless he does a small one Hiroshima/Nagasaki style to strike fear into Ukraine and get them to capitulate. But throughout Ukraine I don't think he would want long term radioactive unusable territory. Use of WMD's is really more uncertain territory but Putler has shown how ruthless he can be and at the age of 70 probably won't care as his time in this Earth is limited anyway. That unfortunately is not great reading for Ukraine but it can only carry on fighting and hope it doesn't happen and if it does push on anyway as it's all there is left to do.

I don't think Putler will declare war on the west/NATO or fire Nukes in our direction as he knows he'll just get nukes fired back so is on an only lose scenario on that one. I myself though am making my nuclear fallout preparations just in case ;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 12, 2022, 10:43:29 AM
According to an "FSB source ",the orc losses in Ukraine now stand at 90,000.


This includes troops who were killed,went missing,died from wounds,or were disabled and cannot return to military service.


It does not include Wagner,DNR,LNR,Chechen troops...so the real figure will be much higher.


Obviously i cannot verify these figures.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on October 14, 2022, 05:17:47 PM
So 30% of the energy capacity has been 'destroyed', the Ukrainian PM is asking people to reduce consumption by 25%. Ukraine's emergency services said that five regions - Lviv, Poltava, Sumy, Kharkiv and Ternopil were without power. Further internet and heating outages. (Ukrainian reporting)

Putin stated 22 of 29 targets were successfully hit earlier in the week, the remaining will be 'dealt with'.

According to Moby 2.0 'tis a flesh wound. This is catastrophic as winter is approaching.

Meanwhile the Kerch Bridge is operational, both road and rail. Will be repaired within 2-3 months. Apparently 80% of 'Ukrainian' forces near Lughansk are foreign mercenaries as the Ukrainian army has been decimated.

I recommend people stock up on food, particularly in Europe. Pat - I hope you filled up your car's fuel tank! Vive la révolution! Oh and interesting to see French intelligence view the USA as its greatest foreign threat...

Interesting times.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 14, 2022, 05:55:12 PM
I doubt Putin’s words of “success”.

30% was hit, not destroyed. L’viv’s power has already been restored.

The AFU is the prime fighting force in Luhansk.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Jumper1 on October 14, 2022, 11:30:58 PM
So 30% of the energy capacity has been 'destroyed', the Ukrainian PM is asking people to reduce consumption by 25%. Ukraine's emergency services said that five regions - Lviv, Poltava, Sumy, Kharkiv and Ternopil were without power. Further internet and heating outages. (Ukrainian reporting)

Putin stated 22 of 29 targets were successfully hit earlier in the week, the remaining will be 'dealt with'.

According to Moby 2.0 'tis a flesh wound. This is catastrophic as winter is approaching.

Meanwhile the Kerch Bridge is operational, both road and rail. Will be repaired within 2-3 months. Apparently 80% of 'Ukrainian' forces near Lughansk are foreign mercenaries as the Ukrainian army has been decimated.

I recommend people stock up on food, particularly in Europe. Pat - I hope you filled up your car's fuel tank! Vive la révolution! Oh and interesting to see French intelligence view the USA as its greatest foreign threat...

Interesting times.

Russia has allegedly launched more than half its  kh 101/ kh 555 cruise  missle, half its calibre models and 80% of its islander middle arsenals.

If* that's all they have, ukraine can easily withstand the rest. Then what?
Its that simple.

The power was back on in less than 24 hrs in most of those area and 48 hrs in all basically all.of them.
Puti tossed another 700 million down the drain. But that's chicken feed to a man that stole multi billions from.his country.

If **  kharkiv and luhansk oblasts are being liberated by a  battalion or two of foreign volunteers, with little to no air support a mere 100 kilometers from.russian airspace where Russia should be absolutely  lighting them.up with air sorties,
then Russia might as well pack up now.

Have you any military experience at all?


Where has russia gained ground in the last 45 days? (Since command posts and ammo depots were methodically being located by superior Intel, and wiped out by precision weapons )
1 or 2 kilometers in bakmut where they have concentrated thier efforts for 2 or 3 months?

While losing net ground in every single contested oblast ,and not by a few kilometers ,by big hunks

Yet you are posting the sky is falling and winter is coming for Ukraine.

If this wasn't a serious matter   I would be friking laughing.

Russia was getting its arse handed to them, so they were forced to.mobilize, you do get this very basic concept i hope?

If you are succeeding in your goals in Ukraine, and ukrainians have such heavy losses,then you don't need to.mobilize hundreds of thousands of new troops and make public speeches about the reasons needed.

Since you have such great info hows that new 3rd army doing?
Why was it needed?
Is it combat effective after 30 days of its first real deployment ?
Let me know.


Ukraine will have a tough winter, mostly from.Russia tossing that.amount of new meat in the grinder.
 But if 3rd army was any indication it takes about 2.6 weeks to be rendered ineffective and pulled back for replacements.
Winter will slow that and hinder russia more than Ukraine.
  They have longer more vulnerable supply lines. They cant be.rotated out for any break,  as often or as quickly.

Russia should get out.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on October 15, 2022, 01:33:54 AM
Meanwhile the Kerch Bridge is operational, both road and rail. Will be repaired within 2-3 months.

Quote
Repairs to the bridge between the annexed Crimean peninsula and southern Russia, which was damaged in an explosion last Saturday, are to be finished by July 2023, a document published on the Russian government’s website said.
http://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/10/14/Explosion-damaged-Crimea-bridge-to-be-repaired-by-July-2023-Report and several other news orgs reporting same.

That is likely a reasonable timeline to complete repairs unless something else happens till then.

In any case, it will negatively affect logistics to and from Crimea for some time to come.  I work in the logistics field and estimate the capacity of the bridge is roughly 1/4 or less than what it was.  Have to remember the remaining damaged lane for vehicles and the one rail line may be limited to lighter loads and will also have to be used for repair operations further limiting normal traffic.  At some point, both will have to be closed completely for a time to facilitate repair.  Ferry traffic is also impacted by re-routed priority goods.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 15, 2022, 04:28:22 AM
So 30% of the energy capacity has been 'destroyed', the Ukrainian PM is asking people to reduce consumption by 25%. Ukraine's emergency services said that five regions - Lviv, Poltava, Sumy, Kharkiv and Ternopil were without power. Further internet and heating outages. (Ukrainian reporting)

Putin stated 22 of 29 targets were successfully hit earlier in the week, the remaining will be 'dealt with'.

According to Moby 2.0 'tis a flesh wound. This is catastrophic as winter is approaching.

Meanwhile the Kerch Bridge is operational, both road and rail. Will be repaired within 2-3 months. Apparently 80% of 'Ukrainian' forces near Lughansk are foreign mercenaries as the Ukrainian army has been decimated.

I recommend people stock up on food, particularly in Europe. Pat - I hope you filled up your car's fuel tank! Vive la révolution! Oh and interesting to see French intelligence view the USA as its greatest foreign threat...

Interesting times.


Sorry to disappoint you again,but my Governmental source in Kiev informs me that the power was back on in Kiev within two hours of the energy capacity being "destroyed".....ho hum.


According to military analysts Russia has now lost 70% of it's precision missiles.


Maybe Putler will use the rest of his remaining precision missiles taking out the lights in Kiev for another two hours.


He's as daft as you so i wouldn't put it past him.


64,700 Russian orcs have now been eliminated in Ukraine,according to the Ukrainian MOD...no wonder Putler had to mobilize another 300,000 men.


Meanwhile another 10,000 Ukrainian troops have returned to Ukraine to kill Russian/pro-Russian orcs after completing their NATO training in the UK.
That's 20,000 now trained... and counting. >:D





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 15, 2022, 06:15:22 AM
My impression is that Putler is making the same mistake as Hitler did with the Luftwaffe during WWII. He's hitting civilian targets in anger failing to realise that it's the biggest military and infrastructure targets are the ones to hit, that's what has the biggest impact on changing the fortunes of war. As it is he is wasting lots of his missiles on pointless targets. Fortunate that Ukraine can now take out many of these missiles out also. It generally means that Putler is carrying out his own disarmament and degrading his military's ability himself. Soon Russia will be too poor to rearm, will have a broken military and will likely be breaking apart as a result of it all.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: rwd123 on October 21, 2022, 05:01:04 AM
I doubt Putin’s words of “success”.

30% was hit, not destroyed. L’viv’s power has already been restored.

The AFU is the prime fighting force in Luhansk.
The Deputy Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, Kyrylo Tymoshenko, said that tomorrow a restriction on the supply of electricity will be introduced throughout Ukraine.

According to him, starting from 7:00 to 23:00, it will be necessary to minimize the use of electricity. Also, from tomorrow, the use of street lighting in Ukrainian cities will be limited.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 21, 2022, 01:27:11 PM
Russia hit many more stations since my last post. Nevertheless, the restrictions are for four hours at a time.

The purpose of hitting infrastructure was to break the will of Ukrainians. The effect has been the opposite of what Russia wanted.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 23, 2022, 11:17:43 PM
http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/10/23/7373163/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 24, 2022, 04:59:31 AM
rwd123 will be gnashing his teeth  ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on October 24, 2022, 02:26:17 PM
Another terrible day for the losing orc military in Ukraine today  ;D


40 Chechens are reported killed by a strike on the school they were using as their base in Kherson.


The one place the orcs were making a slight advance in Ukraine was Bakhmut....until today.They were forced back 2km in the eastern suburb ..it had taken them 2 months of fighting to take this 2km,and they lost it in 48 hours.


Three more orc KA-52 attack Helicopters were shot down today also  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 27, 2022, 06:00:46 PM
This is an interesting look at life under occupation in Kherson.

http://youtu.be/QSaxduOxogU
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 01, 2022, 09:41:38 AM
Another Ukrainian-Turkish-UN convoy of grain ships left Odesa this morning, breaking through Russia’s naval blockade of Ukraine for a second day in a row.
the Russian Black Sea Fleet is nowhere to be seen after the recent drone attack on Russian ships in Omega Bay in Crimea
Erdogan has called Putin’s bluff.

my wife's relatives in Crimea have been mobilized and are now in the war, they only mobilized those with past military experience, because there's no time to train them
military police entered each village in Crimea with a list of names, went door to door, rounded everyone up with no warning, and like that they were gone....
guys in their 40s, with kids, out of shape, and haven't been in the military in 20 years
are given garbage equipment, little food....
thye are given a special SIM card they put in their phones, only allowed to call immediate family, calls are monitored

meanwhile, Russian casualties are steeply mounting....
but Russians are well insulated from the TRUTH
if Alex Jones spoke Russian, he'd EASILY get a job on Russian TV
Disinformatse is the only informatse
control what the masses hear - and you control the masses

it's THAT freakin simple
even Rupublicans have figured it out...
masses = durrichki (fools) - and what doya do with fools? ya fool 'em!
horrosho? next question?

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 03, 2022, 07:33:05 AM
It seems that the orcs are retreating from the city of Kherson.


Video's and photo's show : Soldiers at roadblocks are gone.





Russian flags have been taken down from government buildings.


Apparently Orc defensive positions north of the city have been abandoned.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on November 03, 2022, 10:20:36 AM
"Despite the fact that the enemy is trying to convince that he is leaving populated areas, and also that the effect of total evacuation is being created, we are monitoring the situation and see that this can be a cunning military maneuver..."

http://fakty.com.ua/ua/ukraine/20221103-u-hersoni-okupanty-gotuyut-provokacziyi-gumenyuk-pro-znyattya-prapora-rf-z-administracziyi/
Title: How Russia Won the War
Post by: krimster2 on November 04, 2022, 10:45:03 AM
the battle of waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eaton
the war in Ukraine was won when the Russian wing of the republican party became the house majority after Nov 8 and cut-off all US funding to Ukraine (which is 90% of Ukraine's aid)
Title: Re: How Russia started the War and opened Pandora's box.
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 04, 2022, 05:05:34 PM
the battle of waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eaton
the war in Ukraine was won when the Russian wing of the republican party became the house majority after Nov 8 and cut-off all US funding to Ukraine (which is 90% of Ukraine's aid)


The war won't be won or lost in Ukraine..it's just the start.


Putler has openly said he plans to destroy democracy....



"This Ukraine crisis we're in right now,this is just the warmup "Navy adm.Charles A.Richard ,Commander of US Strategic Command "The big one is coming and it isn't going to be very long before we're going to get tested in ways we haven't been ..."


It does amuse me seeing people talking about finding a FSU wife  still....they have no idea what's coming.


The Four Horsemen are saddling up.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 05, 2022, 12:53:59 AM
Following up a little on krimster’s post, this piece connects the dots.

http://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/magazine/russiagate-paul-manafort-ukraine-war.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 05, 2022, 06:00:13 AM
Following up a little on krimster’s post, this piece connects the dots.

http://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/magazine/russiagate-paul-manafort-ukraine-war.html

Subscription needed.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 05, 2022, 09:35:21 AM
I could access without a subscription.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 05, 2022, 04:06:57 PM
Try this

http://archive.ph/YsH0Q (http://archive.ph/YsH0Q)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 05, 2022, 04:54:07 PM
Try this

http://archive.ph/YsH0Q (http://archive.ph/YsH0Q)


Thanks for that.

The article is much too long to hold my attention.
Title: Re: How Russia lost the War
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 05, 2022, 06:58:56 PM
the battle of waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eaton
the war in Ukraine was won when the Russian wing of the republican party became the house majority after Nov 8 and cut-off all US funding to Ukraine (which is 90% of Ukraine's aid)


I've been  informed that the lend-lease act gave President Biden the power to supply Ukraine with military aid without additional authorization from the US Congress.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine.
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 05, 2022, 06:59:33 PM
Massive build-up of Ukrainian troops happening in Kherson region at staging points.


Meanwhile mutinies are occurring at an increasing rate among the orc troops,the latest coming from Kazan mobiks on Friday.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 06, 2022, 08:28:03 AM
after your post, I read the lend-lease bill!
technically, you are correct...
but...

read this
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/marjorie-taylor-greene-gop-wont-give-ukraine-another-penny-rcna55649

will they fight for Putin, the way they fought for Trump?
I guess we're gonna find out soon...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 06, 2022, 10:29:49 AM
She sounds like another full of hot air politician.


Clearly she doesn't understand how the lend-lease act works ,or is choosing to conveniently ignore the realities in her deceitful pursuit of power.


I notice there is no mention of the lend-lease in that article....i wonder why ?  :rolleyes:


Actually,there are plenty of anti-Russian hawks in the Republican party who want to put a lot more pressure on Putler than he's getting now.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 06, 2022, 01:02:19 PM
The elite orc corps of the Marines of the 155th Brigade are getting smashed at Pavlovka.


They've appealed to the orc higher-ups in the Russian MOD to save them as their losses are so huge.


Sladkov reports painful losses.and the appeal of the Marines from the 155th to the leadership of the MOD."Blood is pouring and pouring ".


Pro-Russian propogandists are reporting "extremely depressing news " about the situation of the 155th Brigade.


Huge shock waves going through Russia over this massacre.


Khodakovsky,Commander of the DPR pro-Russian "Vostok" Battalion, has come out and said he does not believe in the success of the military operation anymore.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 06, 2022, 09:39:47 PM
From Professor Timothy Snyder.

http://snyder.substack.com/p/russias-genocide-handbook?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 07, 2022, 02:43:45 PM
Putin is winning his anti-democracy campaign in the USofA
If the GOP win, he wins.
If he wins, Ukraine loses.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 07, 2022, 03:30:47 PM
Putin is winning his anti-democracy campaign in the USofA
If the GOP win, he wins.
If he wins, Ukraine loses.


The lend-lease will be in operation until the end of Biden's term as President....two years i believe ?


There is absolutely no concern among my USA contacts that the military support for Ukraine will dry up whilst Biden is President,regardless of who wins the mid-term elections.


I'm hearing today that Ukraine has established the production of 122mm and 152mm Artillery shells....something the orcs are now having to beg  North Korea for,among other things, because they're running out.


More good news for Ukraine today and bad news for the orcs.....NASAMS and Aspide air defence systems arrived in Ukraine.


Mass surrenders of orc mobiks around Svatove today.


There is a real fear,  Russian Telegram Channels  are reporting from the front, among the orcs that Ukraine is about to launch an offensive to take Belgorod...i can't see it happening myself but anything is possible.


As a little aside..not one HIMARS being used by Ukraine  has been hit by the orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 07, 2022, 04:17:22 PM
The elite orc corps of the Marines of the 155th Brigade are getting smashed at Pavlovka.


They've appealed to the orc higher-ups in the Russian MOD to save them as their losses are so huge.


Sladkov reports painful losses.and the appeal of the Marines from the 155th to the leadership of the MOD."Blood is pouring and pouring ".


Pro-Russian propogandists are reporting "extremely depressing news " about the situation of the 155th Brigade.


Huge shock waves going through Russia over this massacre.


Khodakovsky,Commander of the DPR pro-Russian "Vostok" Battalion, has come out and said he does not believe in the success of the military operation anymore.


Further to this news the remnants of the 155th Marine Brigade  released a video today,showing three of them appealing for people at home to calm down as they're not done (yet).


They report that despite their losses they're holding the line ( impressive for an assault force lol ).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 07, 2022, 06:32:37 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gop-ukraine-skeptics-poised-gain-congress-lawmakers-look-lock-billions-rcna53167

http://www.axios.com/2022/10/18/republicans-ukraine-aid-mccarthy

http://www.cnn.com/2022/10/22/politics/republican-ukraine-support-what-matters

http://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-republicans-aim-ukraine-aid-unlikely-block-it-2022-10-21/

the argument "america first" is pure gaslighting
democrats offered to pay for everything from seized oligarch assets
(something I proposed)
WHAT? seizing oligarch's assets?  NYET, er NO!!!
how will they pay us?

meanwhile Kentucky put 20 million USD from a teacher's pension fund into Sber Bank...
Kentucky is home to Oleg Deripaska's Aluminum plant
the guy who was unsanctioned by Trump and was involved in Russian election interference in 2016

PS
it looks like Trump will announce his run for President in the next few days, and probably declare that he's already won the "election"


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 08, 2022, 06:06:35 AM
I think there is a reasonable argument that direct aid to Ukraine could be restricted to weapons, ammunition ,winter clothing,medical supplies etc only...i.e tangible things...rather than some of the financial aid that nobody can be sure is being used for it's intended purpose.


I do think aid to Ukraine from the USA will be reduced if the Republicans gain enough seats in the mid-term elections..probably just the lend-lease without the extra aid being currently sent.



This is Ukraine after all..one needs to be careful with financial aid over there.


A Ukrainian businessman in the Zaporizhzhia region has just been arrested  with his foreman for supplying Ukrainian aircraft engines to Russia during this war,from his factory.
A Ukrainian farmer has also just been arrested for Supplying Russians with grain and fertilizer from a non-occupied region.


So corruption and pro-Russian collaboration is still very much going on there.



I donate some money to UkraineAidOps,run by a guy from Estonia who does the deliveries in Ukraine to the front himself,which is now a registered charity in the USA and Ukraine,set up this year for getting supplies directly to the troops in the field.


Videos are shown with the charity volunteers handing over body armour,drones,night vision equipment,SUV's etc to Ukrainian troops at the front.


It's pretty moving seeing some of the Ukrainian troops clearly moved by the help they're getting when they receive it.


If you don't want to send cash you can buy needed items like winter clothing through Amazon and donate it to be delivered to the Ukrainian troops.


Personally i send smallish amounts through Paypal,as and when i can afford it...as things are getting tight economically in the UK.We've just been informed we're starting a two year recession now.


Their latest appeal is to raise $150k for medical aid for the troops,to cut the number of deaths in the field for the Ukrainian troops....almost $80k has been raised so far.


I also donate equally smallish amounts to a lady in Poland and  other people in Ukraine ,some helping the troops whilst others are helping civilians in desperate need of supplies....all verified by videos of troops/groups of civilians actually receiving what i've donated toward.


So i spread my help around.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 08, 2022, 04:48:19 PM
There is video of 21 orcs who surrendered on Monday in the Swativ direction of the Luhansk region.


The really interesting thing about this is that they were all mobiks from Moscow and the Moscow region.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 09, 2022, 03:53:33 PM
Interesting article on a Marshall Plan for Ukraine.

http://tinyurl.com/2ne9z7pb

In other news, Russia claims to be abandoning Kherson. However, the AFU is wary.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 09, 2022, 04:15:55 PM
  Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu on Wednesday ordered his troops to withdraw from the occupied Ukrainian city of Kherson and take up defensive lines on the opposite bank of the River Dnipro.

The announcement marked one of Russia's most significant retreats and a potential turning point in the war, now nearing the end of its ninth month.

In televised comments, General Sergei Surovikin, in overall command of the war, reported to Shoigu that it was no longer possible to keep Kherson city supplied.

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-orders-pullout-west-bank-dnipro-kherson-2022-11-09/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 09, 2022, 08:02:32 PM
Interesting article on a Marshall Plan for Ukraine.

http://tinyurl.com/2ne9z7pb

In other news, Russia claims to be abandoning Kherson. However, the AFU is wary.

Yes, it is probably a Trojan Horse inverted.

i.e. Lure the enemy into your camp.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 09, 2022, 09:56:43 PM
I'd love to listen to the Ukrainian Hydrologists analysis of what releasing 18 cu kilometers of water from Russia blowing the Kakhovskaya dam will do...

i've been there a couple of times, it's a very flat area, my guess is thousands of sq km flooded...
people should GTF out NOW!!!
if I were Ukrainians I'd bypass Kherson, Russians got every building zeroed in and mined
and they're banking their artillery on the other shore of the river waiting....
don't do a stalingrad and fight in the city
go round

if, Ukraine were to cut access to the NCC (Northern Crimean Canal)  (red line in map)
there goes about 90% of Crimea's water
this year was dryest year in Crimea's history
all major rivers completely dried up, resovoirs at 20% of capacity
ground water already pumped out

there is just one gas pipeline from Russia to Crimea operating now,
it's completely unproteded, above ground, a small bomb is all you'd need
to cut off Crimea's gas, which also fuels it's 3 power plants
oh, and one more bomb to the bridge...
do these things and Crimea is totally focked, isolated and cut-off
they call this "leverage"

PS, next month Iran will be shipping ballistic missiles to Russia, they will be arriving at Simpheropol airport on big air transports
gazillions of "hidey holes" around the airport, perfect for a couple of teams of manpads
or home made anti-air drones (he said, knowingly)




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 10, 2022, 02:51:12 AM
When the orcs bank their artillery on the other shore of the river,won't that leave them as sitting ducks for the Ukrainian HIMARS ?


The HIMARS greatly outrange any artillery the orcs have.


The 20 HIMARS the Ukrainians have,plus their 155mm artillery can create carnage amongst the orcs banked artillery with counterfire.


I also think Ukrainian troops should go round the city of Kherson,because if they go in it will give the orcs the excuse to do another Mariupol and level the city.


Photographs show that the orcs are now digging trenches in northern Crimea,and laid dragons teeth defences against Tanks outside Belgorod.


Putler's SMO has backfired spectacularly on him as the orcs are now in full defence mode.Not what he intended i'm sure. :popcorn:


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on November 10, 2022, 05:09:48 AM
Personally i send smallish amounts through Paypal,as and when i can afford it...as things are getting tight economically in the UK.

Trench, is that you?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 10, 2022, 03:21:45 PM
Trench, is that you?


What a Brain-dead comment.


I suggest you do some research about the problems people have in the UK right now.


Out of a population of 67.3 million people,14.5 million of them are living in poverty in the UK....that's 21.5 %.


Food bank usage is constantly rising here,and that includes for people who are working.


The Bank of England has just announced we're starting a two year recession,so the situation is going to get a lot worse for an increasing number of people.


Energy costs are rising,interest rates are rising and food prices are rising.


Charity begins at home,so i have people to help here in the UK first


I suggest you concentrate on your Bee keeping,whilst sending girls in Ukraine your cheap-ass food parcels,instead of trying to belittle people you know nothing about.


What i call smallish is probably a fortune to you.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 10, 2022, 03:59:15 PM
Back to the subject matter at hand ...and Kherson has become a bloodbath for the orcs .as i've suggested it would be for quite some time.


Thousands of the orcs are trapped there and they are struggling to evacuate as hellfire is raining down on them...this is going to be a disaster for  Russia and it's military. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:18 PM
"he HIMARS greatly outrange any artillery the orcs have."

not for Iskanders
a high profile target like HIMARS is totally worth an iskander compared to some ole apartment building...

Soviet era counter-artillery radar would do just fine for predicting launch and impact points of HIMARS
I really don't understand why Rooshins did't bait the HIMARS with a bunch of mobniks
and drop an iskander on them, when they take the bait
they still got em in the mountains in northern Krim
WTF?

things are REALLY getting "fugly" in Rooshya
hmmm hmmmm
every oilagarch is falling over themselves to be more aggressively patriotic
to "talk the talk" so they don't have to "walk the walk"
kinda reminds me of the end stage of nazi-ism, when the SS turned on the people, and executed large numbers of German civilians for being "defeatist"

I expect a Russian nuclear demo somewhere soon, not in Ukraine, not YET! 
space or Russia or sea/ocean

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 10, 2022, 06:17:44 PM
Soviet era counter-artillery radar would do just fine for predicting launch and impact points of HIMARS

I don't see how launch points can be predicted.

HIMARS targets can be predicted.
But to know the launch points within a few feet . . . come on now !!!

And, as I understand it, the HIMARS are immediately moved as soon as they fire.  That's the HIM part.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 10, 2022, 06:39:04 PM
"I don't see how launch points can be predicted."

that's why I got paid the big bucks!!
I'm sure if you google "Weapons Locating & Counter Battery Radars"  you'll find some layman description of the math behind it!!
an iskander from Krim might have a 3 min flight time
and can be lauched before the HIMARS impact
and this is based on the ancient hardware I used to work on...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 10, 2022, 09:39:24 PM
An Iskander from Krim might have a 3 min flight time
and can be launched before the HIMARS impact

But HIMARS will have already moved.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on November 11, 2022, 02:10:40 AM
John Kerry fears Russia-Ukraine war will distract
from climate change


"But it could have a profound negative impact on the
climate obviously. You have a war and obviously you’re
going to have massive emissions consequences to the
war.

But equally importantly, you're going to lose people's focus,
you're going to lose certainly big country attention because
they will be diverted and I think it could have a damaging
impact," he continued.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-kerry-russia-ukraine-war-climate-change
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on November 11, 2022, 02:44:47 AM
What a Brain-dead comment.

Don't get your panties in a bunch over someone poking fun at the fact that you were talking like Trench.  Maybe it is a British thing to make smallish donations, and then pound your chest trying to make it sound like you were doing something meaningful.

I was taught that giving should be in secret.  Do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.

Quote
Out of a population of 67.3 million people,14.5 million of them are living in poverty in the UK....that's 21.5 %.

And what is the poverty rate in Ukraine?

Quote
Charity begins at home,so i have people to help here in the UK first

That's pure foolishness.  Charity should be given where it is most needed, and where it will have the greatest benefit.

Even in America, you can find homeless bums who "need" charity.  But it will have no benefit, as charity given to them is just wasted, and then they will need more.

Charity and welfare programs just create a larger need for charity and welfare.

Quote
I suggest you concentrate on your Bee keeping,whilst sending girls in Ukraine your cheap-ass food parcels

Beekeeping is just a sideline for me.  I only sent one food parcel.  I don't see the need now, as the food situation in unoccupied Ukraine has stabilized.

Quote
instead of trying to belittle people you know nothing about.

Do not be so foolish as to assume that I know nothing about you.  If you post, people can learn things about you.  For example, spelling and grammar correlate to IQ.  Personality traits are also evident. People can also tell if someone is trying to live vicariously through the experiences of the soldiers.

Quote
What i call smallish is probably a fortune to you.

Once again, you assume.  Then again, you might be correct, as I had a fine dinner last night of macaroni and cheese, with a can of tuna in it.  I washed it down with plain old water.  My trucks are 20 years old.  (The US is entering recession and inflation is going crazy. 19% of the population is on welfare.  I'm not sure what this has to do with my personal financial situation, but it sounds like a good excuse.)

Live like no one else today, so you can live like no one else tomorrow.

Quote
When the orcs bank their artillery on the other shore of the river,won't that leave them as sitting ducks for the Ukrainian HIMARS ?


The HIMARS greatly outrange any artillery the orcs have.


The 20 HIMARS the Ukrainians have,plus their 155mm artillery can create carnage amongst the orcs banked artillery with counterfire.

Yes, HIMARS artillery does have greater range than conventional artillery shells.

Unfortunately, HIMARS rockets cost about $150,000 each.
Unfortunately, Ukraine does not have an unlimited supply of HIMARS rockets.

Conventional artillery rounds cost anywhere from $400-$2,000 each.

Simple mathematics requires that Ukrainians get close enough to use their cheaper artillery ammo, but when they are close enough to use it, they are also within range of the Russian artillery.  But the Russians have more guns and ammo.  At that point, the question becomes who is a better shot, and how to make the Russians run low on ammo. (target ammo dumps.)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 11, 2022, 06:34:15 AM
Kherson has been liberated from the orcs. ;D


There are some lovely videos out there of the locals greeting the liberators.


The crowds mobbing them has actually slowed down the Ukrainian troops arriving at the city centre.


The Russian MOD claims they didn't lose a single soldier or piece of equipment during the withdrawal.
If that's the case i'm not sure what the Ukrainian artillery and MLRS were firing at all afternoon and night..they must be terrible shots. :rolleyes:


From photographic evidence it looks like several spans of the bridge along the Nova Kakhovka dam were blown up by the orcs during their retreat.


The Antonovski Bridge was blown by the retreating orcs,but wasn't usable anyway after the Ukrainian HIMARS strikes on it during the orc occupation of Kherson.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2022, 09:03:13 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZALA_Lancet to cripple, and iskander to finish the job
this is the Russian team I'd put in to take out HIMARS


this war has intensified the use of drones and will accellerate its future development
like general aviation was boosted in WWI and WWII

I never paid much attention to drones
but let's just say, I've personally seen things this year that made me change my mind about 'em
and that's all I can say about that

glad to see Kherson is free, next big thing will be to take nova krakova
this will be an inflection point in the war
when the war will change to it's "next stage"

PostScript
"Do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing."
cuz it'll get jealous, right?  and if you use your left hand that means your bisexual!

"fine dinner last night of macaroni and cheese, with a can of tuna in it."
dewd, you REALLY need to get a woman!
left hand/right hand, macaroni and cheese...
this is NO way for a man to live!!

 


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on November 11, 2022, 11:37:18 AM
"fine dinner last night of macaroni and cheese, with a can of tuna in it."


Would be tastier and easier on teeth to open the can and mix contents with mac and cheese.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2022, 12:34:12 PM
mac and cheese and tuna?

my college recipee was a can of spaghetti O's mixed with tuna
between two slices of buttered bread, back in those days this cost well under a dollar...

my first trip to Paris, I'd buy a bagette and a sausage
hollow out the bagette, coat the sausage in Dijion and insert
voila! instand sandwich

thank BOG I have wimmin taking care of me now!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 11, 2022, 03:09:04 PM


And what is the poverty rate in Ukraine?

That's pure foolishness.  Charity should be given where it is most needed, and where it will have the greatest benefit.

Even in America, you can find homeless bums who "need" charity.  But it will have no benefit, as charity given to them is just wasted, and then they will need more.

Charity and welfare programs just create a larger need for charity and welfare.




I'll just respond to these comments.


I'm English...my friends and family are all English.


This means they get my priority for help when it's needed.


I have mentioned before on here that,unlike many on here, i have absolutely no affinity for Ukraine and it's people whatsoever.
Some men on here have wives from there,whilst others have a fondness for the country having made friends there.
None of this applies to me.


I travelled there once ,to meet a woman from Mariupol in Kiev.


After i returned  home from our meeting she attempted to scam me for $300.
Whilst in Kiev i did not find the people in general pleasant or welcoming at all.They struck me as being aloof.




So i owe Ukraine nothing ..i've never returned there because the country and it's people mean nothing to me.


It's significant that many of the Ukrainian refugees who came here to the UK on the scheme whereby sponsors take them into their homes, are having problems with their sponsors.The sponsors are finding the Ukrainians to be self-entitled and now want them out of their homes.


However i have a great sense of right and wrong,and i believe that Ukraine has been greatly wronged by Russia invading their country....so i help when and where i can.


The Ukrainian people are very fortunate to get any of my help after my limited experience with them...and i will say no more on this matter.





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2022, 03:33:46 PM
The better half has been working with Ukrainian refugees here, and we have family staying with us. The better half generally doesn’t mix with Ukrainians or Russians, but has not found any of the refugees he’s worked with to be entitled. He has great sympathy for all of them.

Family is a special circumstance.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 11, 2022, 04:13:16 PM
They've been on the news channels here in the UK.


Complaints from sponsors have ranged from having to drive the Ukrainian refugees around everywhere,because they refuse to catch a bus,to the Ukrainians refusing to take part in domestic duties like doing the washing-up,to Ukrainian children being allowed to run wild in their sponsors home when the sponsors are not around.


The latest raft of complaints is where Ukrainian refugees are demanding the sponsors accept their families over for Christmas from Ukraine.


1,915 Ukrainian refugee households have been made homeless in the UK's Homes for Ukraine scheme for various reasons....so far.
That doesn't mean they'll be living on the streets,but it does mean they'll be living in hostels and such.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 11, 2022, 04:50:33 PM
Ukraine has now built a wall in the north,at the border with Belarus.


It consists of a ditch,an embankment,a reinforced concrete fence with barbed wire.


Looks around twice the height of a man.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 05:07:51 PM
They've been on the news channels here in the UK.


Complaints from sponsors have ranged from having to drive the Ukrainian refugees around everywhere,because they refuse to catch a bus,to the Ukrainians refusing to take part in domestic duties like doing the washing-up,to Ukrainian children being allowed to run wild in their sponsors home when the sponsors are not around.


The latest raft of complaints is where Ukrainian refugees are demanding the sponsors accept their families over for Christmas from Ukraine.


1,915 Ukrainian refugee households have been made homeless in the UK's Homes for Ukraine scheme for various reasons....so far.
That doesn't mean they'll be living on the streets,but it does mean they'll be living in hostels and such.

 
I would say that I am not totally surprised and find some cultural traits from the Ukrainian society, I will rewrite the ones I concur:
1/ having to drive them
2/ Demanding that their families are accepted
I valid these two points.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 12, 2022, 02:49:29 PM
Isn't the "traditional values" the reason you seek UW?  Thos traditional values mean family is critically important.


As for driving, that's not been my experience.


There are almost 95,000 hosted families in the UK.  There are bound to be a few bad apples.  We don't hear about the majority, who are working out just fine.




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2022, 04:18:09 PM
It's not about the values I am searching for.
It's about the sponsors who give a shelter for one, two or three people and don't want to have five, six or seven at a time."The latest raft of complaints is where Ukrainian refugees are demanding the sponsors accept their families over for Christmas from Ukraine."
It's all about cultural differences.
 
Recently a FSU woman asked me to deliver a jacket to a member of her family, which I agreed, and she ended with a bag, with a lot of clothes. That was not the deal and she felt my extreme discomfort. Additionally she was asking me to do something illegal (don't want to give more details). A the same time she showed up in sports shoes and sport clothes in a luxurious restaurant but was uncomfortable because I didn't drop my jacket at the wardrobe.
So we see here in few lines how the "paradox" of cultural differences can strike...





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2022, 04:26:33 PM
You are mixing with the wrong type of Ukrainians. I have never had anyone ask me, or the better half, to transfer large numbers of goods, or buy significant amounts. I have delivered goods on behalf of others, but it’s always been small amounts.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2022, 03:17:57 AM
You are mixing with the wrong type of Ukrainians. I have never had anyone ask me, or the better half, to transfer large numbers of goods, or buy significant amounts. I have delivered goods on behalf of others, but it’s always been small amounts.

Maybe, but they exist.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 14, 2022, 09:03:16 AM
as someone who used to live there, this is just ONE of the many hassles you'll face with the locals!
people pushing you to get all kinds of western things for them
after awhile I put a stop to it, told my wife to tell 'em all I said we had no room
and to blame me and not her
this was the start of my journey towards being a "Rus Buster"

so if ya gotta Russian problem in your neighborhood, WHO ya gonna call?
Rus Busters!!

I got REAL GOOD at it!!

other issue
everybody there knew I was wealthy, so they were always asking about "borrowing" money
they'd even shed tears...

you wanna live over there, you better harden your heart, or those people will "eat you alive"
I hated the person I became from living over there
took me awhile to adjust after returning to the USA
fighting old ladies trying to cut me in line was the worst
freakin staroshka suka I shoved her to the back of the line
groups of drunken gopnick hooligans will try and pick a fight with the lone foreigner to impress their girlfriends
I started out with nosh and britva but moved on to a hand pooshka made from a 26.5mm flare gun to deal with them
yeah, I feared no evil there, cuz I was much, much worse than them
it IS better to be feared than loved in Russia
pretty much all Russians have PTSD and anti-social personality disorder
you better be able to put fear in their hearts or they'll come for you in one way or another




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2022, 01:35:02 PM
You better harden your heart
Krim  :clapping:
Or they will eat you alive  :welcome:
Better to be feared than loved  :applaud:
Cannot say better. Be feared = be respected.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 14, 2022, 04:20:31 PM
for me, these issues are just a few of the negatives experiences westerners have living there
you will be paranoid about leaving your home unattended while on vacation, etc
you will have steel bars on the windows and armored doors of your home
if your mailbox is in a public area, your mail will be stolen
you can't park your car unprotected out in the open or it'll be vandalized...
and so forth and so on...
the worst IMHO, are the changes you have to make to yourself to survive there
you become one of THEM....
for me the rewards of being there didn't match the hassles, especially NOW!!!
I don't know why you'd want to leave France for Ukraine
I know nothing about La femme Francaise however
here in the USA there are gazillions of single (divorced) women in their 40s
you would't even have to marry them, only if you tuely WANTED to
they can't find men who are interested in them, and most of us KNOW WHY!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2022, 04:45:02 PM
for me, these issues are just a few of the negatives experiences westerners have living there
you will be paranoid about leaving your home unattended while on vacation, etc
you will have steel bars on the windows and armored doors of your home
if your mailbox is in a public area, your mail will be stolen
you can't park your car unprotected out in the open or it'll be vandalized...
and so forth and so on...
the worst IMHO, are the changes you have to make to yourself to survive there
you become one of THEM....
for me the rewards of being there didn't match the hassles, especially NOW!!!
I don't know why you'd want to leave France for Ukraine
I know nothing about La femme Francaise however
here in the USA there are gazillions of single (divorced) women in their 40s
you would't even have to marry them, only if you tuely WANTED to
they can't find men who are interested in them, and most of us KNOW WHY!!
 
I have been living in some countries that could compete with Ukraine until my 19's so what you describe is not new for me.
What you say confirm what a female friend (Ukrainian) told me about her problems when she opened an office, a sort of house with the door opening directly on the street. She moved to a building (so most of the time there is concierge as you know) and it solved many shit (beggars entering in her office, IT stuff stolen etc...).

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 14, 2022, 04:51:40 PM
As i predicted the orc artillery,banked on the other side of the river to the city of Kherson,is now getting smashed by Ukrainian artillery.


Ukrainian forces crossed the river at Nova Kakhovka and a CNN reporter in Kherson city said the Ukrainian artillery have been heard through the day and into the night absolutely hammering the orcs .


I should have been a General  ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 14, 2022, 05:25:36 PM
that would mean that the northern tip of the Crimean Canal is now under Ukrainian control
if Ukraine blocks it sufficiently, then water will stop flowing to Crimea
a true disaster for them
maybe Ukraine can use this as leverage to get Russians to cease attacking their energy infrastructure
there's just one open gas pipeline from Russia to Crimea now, which is out in the open unproteced, this also feeds Russia's 3 new power plants in Crimea
one bomb and there goes gas and electricity to Crimea...

yes, we all know what happens to British Generals in Ukraine
Half a league, half a league,. Half a league onward,. All in the valley of Death...
I like the film on this subject made about 1969 or so in the UK
most favorite movie line, "shall we have a go at them again, sir?"
I love stoics!!

I'd watch what Iran is up to now
this might be Pootin's card hidden up his sleeve


a clever move having a Kurd set off a bomb in Istanbul today, on the same street as the Russian embassy
Turky blames the USA (LOL)


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2022, 02:37:15 AM
that would mean that the northern tip of the Crimean Canal is now under Ukrainian control
if Ukraine blocks it sufficiently, then water will stop flowing to Crimea
a true disaster for them
maybe Ukraine can use this as leverage to get Russians to cease attacking their energy infrastructure
there's just one open gas pipeline from Russia to Crimea now, which is out in the open unproteced, this also feeds Russia's 3 new power plants in Crimea
one bomb and there goes gas and electricity to Crimea...

yes, we all know what happens to British Generals in Ukraine
Half a league, half a league,. Half a league onward,. All in the valley of Death...
I like the film on this subject made about 1969 or so in the UK
most favorite movie line, "shall we have a go at them again, sir?"
I love stoics!!

I'd watch what Iran is up to now
this might be Pootin's card hidden up his sleeve


a clever move having a Kurd set off a bomb in Istanbul today, on the same street as the Russian embassy
Turky blames the USA (LOL)
That would be quite funny if the RussiaNatiK in Crimea suffer the same. No electricity, no gas, fear, missiles, new color uniforms soon, business zero, etc...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 15, 2022, 05:08:35 AM
Yesterday Ukrainian missile and artillery units launched fifty fire missions,in particular on the concentration of enemy units ,weapons,equipment and ammunition depot in Oleshky.


The orcs are urgently evacuating the earlier brought Russian civilians from Zaliznyi Port to Skadovsk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 15, 2022, 11:59:29 AM
** breaking **
a Russian missile hit Poland and killed 2 civilians, Poland calls for emergency gov meeting...
if this was deliberate and not accidental, then it's likely a prelude to a nuke launched from Belarus towards western ukraine

BTW, getting rid of Pootin will accomplish nothing, FSB will simply select a new national leader to replace him
potential candidates are already auditioning

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 15, 2022, 02:12:13 PM
Out of the 90 missiles launched at Ukraine today by the orcs ,73 were shot down by Ukrainian air defence.


NASAMS hit 10/10 missiles.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2022, 01:44:03 PM
as someone who used to live there, this is just ONE of the many hassles you'll face with the locals!
people pushing you to get all kinds of western things for them
after awhile I put a stop to it, told my wife to tell 'em all I said we had no room
and to blame me and not her
this was the start of my journey towards being a "Rus Buster"

so if ya gotta Russian problem in your neighborhood, WHO ya gonna call?
Rus Busters!!

I got REAL GOOD at it!!

other issue
everybody there knew I was wealthy, so they were always asking about "borrowing" money
they'd even shed tears...

you wanna live over there, you better harden your heart, or those people will "eat you alive"
I hated the person I became from living over there
took me awhile to adjust after returning to the USA
fighting old ladies trying to cut me in line was the worst
freakin staroshka suka I shoved her to the back of the line
groups of drunken gopnick hooligans will try and pick a fight with the lone foreigner to impress their girlfriends
I started out with nosh and britva but moved on to a hand pooshka made from a 26.5mm flare gun to deal with them
yeah, I feared no evil there, cuz I was much, much worse than them
it IS better to be feared than loved in Russia
pretty much all Russians have PTSD and anti-social personality disorder
you better be able to put fear in their hearts or they'll come for you in one way or another


I never had anyone push me for Western goods.  I would let old ladies cut in line, because they are old, and there, it's a respect thing.  I never had anyone else ever cut me in line. 


Yes, life there definitely is more difficult, and you must have your wits about you.  However, I still think it all boils down to the company you keep. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 16, 2022, 02:27:07 PM
I never whitewash livin in the FSU AND HAVE NO SENSE OF "nostalgie" about it
and YOU know perfectly well what I'm talkin about, that it's a "dog-eat-dog" culture
oh yeah, have your wits about you, hmmm hmmmm...

closest western equivalent would be living at the edge of a garbage dump surrounded by condemned buildings and your neighbors are all ex-cons
and those were THE GOOD OLE DAYS!!

a good darwinian breeding ground for the social mobility of criminality and anti-social behavior
I learned A LOT there!!!!

I do understand causality
the 20th century was BRUTAL for the population of the FSU
and sure looks like it's gonna be the same for the 21st as well

Title: Re: The Struggle For Earth
Post by: krimster2 on November 16, 2022, 04:37:24 PM
I have a weird feelin that WAR is coming, no matter what the catalyst is that sets it off

so it's gonna be Russia, Iran, Syria, North Korea and now TURKEY in this corner
and in the opposite corner
Ukraine, Israel, NATO(- Turkey)

and dumb phuques wanna close the border to Mexico
ya'll think you're gonna fly outta the USA when the excrement hits the reciprocating cooling device?

LOL, this is why I have a BOAT and property in Costa Rica!!!
I don't need no stinkin permission, visa, or even a ticket
s'long and thanks for all the fish you suckers!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on November 16, 2022, 07:17:05 PM

...  I never had anyone else ever cut me in line. 
Remembering the McDonalds in Moscow, there was no cutting in line.   
Because there was nothing that resembled a line.
Thirty packed people all squeezing toward the registers.

Young boys eating leftovers on the tables.

But the drive-through worked fine for a late evening Coke and fries.
Title: pootempkin village idiot's advice for beekeepers
Post by: krimster2 on November 16, 2022, 07:27:08 PM
hmmm "bolshoi Mac s'yrom projouste"
I fondly remember those days, sigh...
all overwith now...


think outside the box
there really is is no box
acknowledge that the old world will fall behind you
and ya ain't gonna like
what you're gonna see up in front of ya
don't wanna scare ya
but just tellin you like it is
horrosho moy brat?

zo zaboot FSU girl friend
and focus on how to meet someone your own age
not for marriage, but as room mates
the society of mutual self preservation
is what it's all gonna be about in the future
and not sexual gratification, etc
whatever your "measure"
find a female of the same measure
and learn to be a team
survival for each of you just got 2X easier!!
see how EASY
so abandon old habits of thinking
let the dead bury the dead
all those who want to live should follow me

just kidding!
it's really crucification!!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Earth
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 17, 2022, 05:30:54 AM
I have a weird feelin that WAR is coming, no matter what the catalyst is that sets it off

so it's gonna be Russia, Iran, Syria, North Korea and now TURKEY in this corner
and in the opposite corner
Ukraine, Israel, NATO(- Turkey)

and dumb phuques wanna close the border to Mexico
ya'll think you're gonna fly outta the USA when the excrement hits the reciprocating cooling device?

LOL, this is why I have a BOAT and property in Costa Rica!!!
I don't need no stinkin permission, visa, or even a ticket
s'long and thanks for all the fish you suckers!!


I also have a feeling war is coming..i'm surprised the USA hasn't bombed Iranian  missile and drone stocks and production plants yet.
Iran has been a perpetual thorn in the USA's side and i thought their supplying of weapons to Russia,and with the Iranian citizens protests against the regime there, now would have been the perfect excuse to bomb the f*ck out of them.


Why do you think Turkey would jump ship and side with the axis of evil ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2022, 01:04:04 PM
I never whitewash livin in the FSU AND HAVE NO SENSE OF "nostalgie" about it
and YOU know perfectly well what I'm talkin about, that it's a "dog-eat-dog" culture
oh yeah, have your wits about you, hmmm hmmmm...

closest western equivalent would be living at the edge of a garbage dump surrounded by condemned buildings and your neighbors are all ex-cons
and those were THE GOOD OLE DAYS!!

a good darwinian breeding ground for the social mobility of criminality and anti-social behavior
I learned A LOT there!!!!

I do understand causality
the 20th century was BRUTAL for the population of the FSU
and sure looks like it's gonna be the same for the 21st as well


You will find the same archetypes of individuals in the West that you do in the FSU.  Everything from psychopaths to selfless individuals.  You were locked out of the highest "levels" of their society, as you're not part of it, so you probably saw things you aren't exposed to in the West. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 17, 2022, 03:55:22 PM
you make too simple a reduction
just like you can see the line of demarcation between east and west Berlin
in the difference of the quality of the buildings on each side
a similar quality is exhibited by the people

the people on the eastern side suffer the social effects of poverty more than in the west
just LIKE THE BUILDINGS!!

lower life span, higher alcohol abuse, higher petty crime
in the USA these issues are correlated with poverty
the problem is that the majority of the people in the FSU are poor
so these characteristics are more common there than upper class areas of the USA
this is what I'm trying to say

this is why I created "a safe living zone" for my family over yonder
and always kept a buffer between me and Russian neighbors
best way to avoid conflicts with Russian neighbors is to not really have any
and have an independent water/electric/gas supply and grow your own food
asd a large amount of us dollars and debit cards in a concealed safe for "emergencies"
this means you kinda have to live away from city center
and buy some land to build your own private villa

stay away from apartment living in Russia
the noise will drive you mad!!
and then you gotta also go get a garage somewhere to park your car, cuz you can't leave it out overnite in front of your apartment
cuz in the morning your tires and battery will be gone

OTOH, if you go all out on the villa
then you can add a swimming pool and nice enclosed garage and work area
and be a mini-oligarch

a lotta places in Russia and Ukraine where you can buy a nice sized boat and keep it at a guarded marina
the ones in Moscow have all the hookups, so you could even live there on the boat a short while at the Marina on the Moscva or Dnipro
and of course Odesa and Sevastopol has the chorny moira

it'd be cool to just work on the boat while chillin on the southern Moskva past where the big industrial places turn into forest
they're not crowded with tour boats like inside the 3 ring part of the river
not sure what to do in the winter time
besides trip on ice
I wore ski boots and cleats to reduce it
but DAMN it gets COLD!





 



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2022, 08:34:41 PM
I will answer you later, krimster. I disagree with your premise.

This is a series of Twitter posts by Kamil Galeev, a Tatar from Russia, a fellow at the Wilson Center. I don’t always agree with him, but his analysis of Putin is usually spot on. Here, he outlines why Kremlin stooge John Mearsheimer (quoted here previously by anti American Putinistas) is wrong.

http://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1593388247799021568.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2022, 08:04:31 PM
I read an interesting analysis by a Ukrainian military officer on the destruction of civilian infrastructure.  His view is that this is done to break down Western, rather than Ukrainian, resolve.  He said Russia knows that Ukrainians will not bend even with no heat, water, or electricity.  However, if the country is destroyed, Russia believes the West will not wish to commit to rebuilding it. 


I think this analysis is accurate.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 19, 2022, 07:05:44 AM
Rishi Sunak has just rocked up in Kyiv and announced new air defence for Ukraine...£50 million worth.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on November 19, 2022, 03:35:07 PM
I read an interesting analysis by a Ukrainian military officer on the destruction of civilian infrastructure.  His view is that this is done to break down Western, rather than Ukrainian, resolve.  He said Russia knows that Ukrainians will not bend even with no heat, water, or electricity.  However, if the country is destroyed, Russia believes the West will not wish to commit to rebuilding it. 


I think this analysis is accurate.

I don't agree with that.  To me, that argument sounds like Ukrainian spin intended to guilt western countries into providing more financial support.

The infrastructure attacks (water/electric/train stations/etc) are only temporary.  If the war ended today, I suspect that utilities would be restored within a month.  Delaying investment by a month is nothing.

If you want to destroy infrastructure to discourage investment, you destroy every bridge possible.  (especially railroad bridges, since Ukraine is so dependent upon rail.)  You burn down every single building.  You tear out every mile of electric wire.  You salt the fields - of not with salt, then radioactive waste.  You completely destroy shipping ports and then sink every boat possible in the harbor.  You destroy every barge and merchant marine vessel.  You completely destroy every fuel depot.

These things take time to repair and rebuild.  These things must be fixed before you can attract investor money for projects that will earn a return.

I think the reason is far more simple.  Khodorkovsky said that when the common Ukrainian people did not come out to greet the Russian soldiers with flowers and open arms, this made Putin go crazy and put him in a rage.
Remember right after the war started, they had some peace talks?  It was in March sometime.  Putin sent a message to Ukraine.  "I will thrash you."

I think that is what the destruction of civilian infrastructure is about.  The insolent Ukrainians did not worship Putin and greet his soldiers with flowers, so he wants to make them suffer.  I think he knows that militarily Russia can't defeat Ukraine as long as it has western support...but he can make them suffer and make their life miserable, so that is what he is doing.

It's classic Soviet playbook.  Remember 90 years ago?  Those insolent kulaks wanted an independent Ukraine.  They all wanted to own their own family farm, where they could eke out a living.  They did not want to be a part of Soviet collective farms.
So the Soviets starved them into submission with the Holodomor. 4.5 million starved to death, and untold millions nearly starved to death.

It would not surprise me if the Russians start bombing food distribution warehouses again, like they did at the start of the war.  The old saying is that civilized societies are only 9 meals from complete anarchy.  When people go without food for 3 days straight, society breaks down.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 19, 2022, 03:56:14 PM

I don't agree with that.  To me, that argument sounds like Ukrainian spin intended to guilt western countries into providing more financial support.

The infrastructure attacks (water/electric/train stations/etc) are only temporary.  If the war ended today, I suspect that utilities would be restored within a month.  Delaying investment by a month is nothing.

If you want to destroy infrastructure to discourage investment, you destroy every bridge possible.  (especially railroad bridges, since Ukraine is so dependent upon rail.)  You burn down every single building.  You tear out every mile of electric wire.  You salt the fields - of not with salt, then radioactive waste.  You completely destroy shipping ports and then sink every boat possible in the harbor.  You destroy every barge and merchant marine vessel.  You completely destroy every fuel depot.

These things take time to repair and rebuild.  These things must be fixed before you can attract investor money for projects that will earn a return.

I think the reason is far more simple.  Khodorkovsky said that when the common Ukrainian people did not come out to greet the Russian soldiers with flowers and open arms, this made Putin go crazy and put him in a rage.
Remember right after the war started, they had some peace talks?  It was in March sometime.  Putin sent a message to Ukraine.  "I will thrash you."

I think that is what the destruction of civilian infrastructure is about.  The insolent Ukrainians did not worship Putin and greet his soldiers with flowers, so he wants to make them suffer.  I think he knows that militarily Russia can't defeat Ukraine as long as it has western support...but he can make them suffer and make their life miserable, so that is what he is doing.

It's classic Soviet playbook.  Remember 90 years ago?  Those insolent kulaks wanted an independent Ukraine.  They all wanted to own their own family farm, where they could eke out a living.  They did not want to be a part of Soviet collective farms.
So the Soviets starved them into submission with the Holodomor. 4.5 million starved to death, and untold millions nearly starved to death.

It would not surprise me if the Russians start bombing food distribution warehouses again, like they did at the start of the war.  The old saying is that civilized societies are only 9 meals from complete anarchy.  When people go without food for 3 days straight, society breaks down.

The Holodomor was planned even before the Bolsheviks attained power.  It's not a good comparison.

The reason Russia won't salt the earth, nuke it, etc., is because they want those lands.  Rubes believe this is about NATO on Russia's doorstep (it's already on Russia's doorstep, in the Baltics and Poland).  Read what Putin has written and said the past two decades.  He has always maintained that Ukraine is an "artificial country", that Ukrainians don't exist as a separate ethnicity.  That's what his invasion was about.  I do believe Russia thinks the Europeans, in particular will develop fatigue in supporting Ukraine, and will abandon Ukraine.  That's what the infrastructure hits are about.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on November 20, 2022, 01:21:38 AM
I don't recall ever hearing that the Holodomor was planned before the Bolsheviks attained power.  But Ukrainian or even Soviet history was not really taught in school.
The stuff that sticks in my head was that they tried getting Ukrainians to collectivize.  Farm output and the Ukrainian economy started going down the toilet.  So the government backed off.  The Ukrainians farmers started making money and the economy was growing again.  6 or 8 years maybe.  And then the Soviets really pushed the collective farms in Ukraine, which ultimately led to the Holodomor.

I'm not convinced the infrastructure hits are related to trying to pressure western countries/Europe into developing support fatigue.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

Cutting off gas to Europe before winter DOES seem to me to be trying to pressure Europe into fatigue.  Higher prices, or gas shortages, will cause social unrest among the people.  I think most people are disconnected from understanding that government spending is funded by taxation. (or at least in the US.)

Another possibility is that by targeting infrastructure, Russia is trying to cause the flight of human capital.
Many of the Ukrainians who moved to other countries did so because they had the financial means to do so.  Often, these are the politically connected or educated professionals or business folks.  There's a brain drain happening for Ukraine too. 

I think the longer the war stretches on, the more those Ukrainian immigrants will start to assimilate, learn western languages, and start to create lives in their host countries.  I think it is naive to believe that everyone who left Ukraine to escape the war will return after the war is over.  (Or if they return, will want to rebuild if they see villages and towns reduced to rubble, especially if they lived in the Russian occupied areas.  Let's be honest.  How many people will want to live in Mariupol anytime soon, even if it returned to Ukrainian control tomorrow?)

Then again, I look at things through a slightly different lens.  I was always taught that Russia was Gog and Magog, which is going to nuke America into oblivion without warning once Wormwood appears.  (Once Wormwood appears, they will believe the world is going to be f*cked anyway...and they will have nothing to lose by nuking America.  It's like a kid who knows they are going to lose a game, so they knock the board off the table.)  I had always wondered why Russia would resort to using the nuclear option as a first attack instead first using conventional warfare...but the war in Ukraine explains that.  Russia now knows they have no chance of winning a conventional war, which would explain using nukes as a first option.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 20, 2022, 05:45:41 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhhh-ZkXwAEOrB7?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 21, 2022, 11:41:32 AM
I don't recall ever hearing that the Holodomor was planned before the Bolsheviks attained power.  But Ukrainian or even Soviet history was not really taught in school.
The stuff that sticks in my head was that they tried getting Ukrainians to collectivize.  Farm output and the Ukrainian economy started going down the toilet.  So the government backed off.  The Ukrainians farmers started making money and the economy was growing again.  6 or 8 years maybe.  And then the Soviets really pushed the collective farms in Ukraine, which ultimately led to the Holodomor.

I'm not convinced the infrastructure hits are related to trying to pressure western countries/Europe into developing support fatigue.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

Cutting off gas to Europe before winter DOES seem to me to be trying to pressure Europe into fatigue.  Higher prices, or gas shortages, will cause social unrest among the people.  I think most people are disconnected from understanding that government spending is funded by taxation. (or at least in the US.)

Another possibility is that by targeting infrastructure, Russia is trying to cause the flight of human capital.
Many of the Ukrainians who moved to other countries did so because they had the financial means to do so.  Often, these are the politically connected or educated professionals or business folks.  There's a brain drain happening for Ukraine too. 

I think the longer the war stretches on, the more those Ukrainian immigrants will start to assimilate, learn western languages, and start to create lives in their host countries.  I think it is naive to believe that everyone who left Ukraine to escape the war will return after the war is over.  (Or if they return, will want to rebuild if they see villages and towns reduced to rubble, especially if they lived in the Russian occupied areas.  Let's be honest.  How many people will want to live in Mariupol anytime soon, even if it returned to Ukrainian control tomorrow?)

Then again, I look at things through a slightly different lens.  I was always taught that Russia was Gog and Magog, which is going to nuke America into oblivion without warning once Wormwood appears.  (Once Wormwood appears, they will believe the world is going to be f*cked anyway...and they will have nothing to lose by nuking America.  It's like a kid who knows they are going to lose a game, so they knock the board off the table.)  I had always wondered why Russia would resort to using the nuclear option as a first attack instead first using conventional warfare...but the war in Ukraine explains that.  Russia now knows they have no chance of winning a conventional war, which would explain using nukes as a first option.


Collective farming was planned by Trotsky before the Revolution took hold in Ukraine.


Much of Europe has already replaced Russian gas.  Germany needs no imports of Russian gas, they have enough in storage for the winter. 


People whose families have lived in Mariupol for centuries will return.  That drive, to be on "my ancestors' lands" is something North Americans don't really comprehend.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 21, 2022, 04:49:09 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fh8ULkkXoAA07JQ?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on November 21, 2022, 09:52:17 PM
Much of Europe has already replaced Russian gas.  Germany needs no imports of Russian gas, they have enough in storage for the winter. 

They will need gas for winter but they will probably source it elsewhere

Germany's Natural Gas Storage Will Last For Two And A Half Months
http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Germanys-Natural-Gas-Storage-Will-Last-For-Two-And-A-Half-Months.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on November 22, 2022, 07:58:11 AM
Douglas Murray says.... (http://nypost.com/2022/11/18/on-a-visit-to-kherson-i-see-why-the-ukrainians-will-win-with-our-support/)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 25, 2022, 03:17:00 AM
^That was an interesting article. 

Here is one about China’s role-

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-red-line-biden-and-xis-secret-ukraine-talks-revealed/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on November 25, 2022, 05:20:18 AM
^That was an interesting article. 

Here is one about China’s role-

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-red-line-biden-and-xis-secret-ukraine-talks-revealed/

The Chinese are not to be trusted.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 25, 2022, 02:27:24 PM
They work in their own interests, and take a long view.


I don't trust them, but understand that they want good relations with Russia.


This is worth watching -


http://youtu.be/HChCRZthxjw
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 26, 2022, 10:08:25 PM
ya'll wanna see what Russian foreign political hacking looks like?
modern version of a Soviet Pravda Za Mir approach
ya'll rember "Za Mir"
well, I gotcher Za Mir RIGT HERE!


http://www.peaceactionwi.org/ukraine_crisis

meanwhile GAZPROM office in downtown Houston has a new "front man" who started just a few months ago
an American CPA LOL!!!

PS
I told ya'll years ago on this web site  that Biden's son's emails were being faked by the GRU
guess what?
in January 2023, the Republican Pro-Russian  Caucus of the House will start a special session to investigate Hunter Biden's Ukrainian laptop
I hope ya'll spelled everything right Tovartisch!
and for Bog's sake, Christmas is December 25, not January 7, Gozpedy, I can't believe you let THAT ONE through!

there's a magic eye in the sky
it wizzes 'round the earth every 90 minutes
and takes pictures of the battlefield
and sends 'em to a place in Odenton, Maryland
where a computer makes a spreadsheet of the coordinates it finds of campfires at night
and records location, duration, size
and compares these coordinates
from night to night
this Informatze gets translated to Ukrainian and updated constantly
cuz ukrainians shoot artillery "pooshkie" at these spots evey day
and Russians STILL don't know how they're being targeted
blaming it on local "spies"




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on November 28, 2022, 05:52:16 AM
A Ukrainian friend told me some analysts are saying there is a 95% chance Belarus is going to join in the attack on Ukraine.  They are waiting on -10 temperatures to freeze the ground.

I told them western analysts didn't think Belarus would attack.  They only have a few thousand combat ready troops, and joining the war would probably break up Lukashenko's regime.

They said there are 15,000 Belarus troops, and 13,000 Russian troops that are ready and waiting.  They also pointed out that every 3rd missile fired at Ukraine comes from Belarus.

Let's hope Lukashenko's generals exercise some common sense and stay out of the war.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 01, 2022, 07:43:20 PM
An interesting article on sanctions-

http://archive.ph/WQkRT
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 02, 2022, 08:47:09 AM
Russia’s initial plans for Ukraine.

Anyone who believes this was about NATO is delusional.

http://archive.ph/7cayk
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on December 02, 2022, 09:57:46 PM
Russia’s initial plans for Ukraine.

Anyone who believes this was about NATO is delusional.

http://archive.ph/7cayk

I'm a little skeptical of this.  Where was Russia going to source the manpower needed to conduct a door-to-door operation like this?  They would probably need a million man army to do this.

Why isn't Moldova mentioned in this?  Early maps showed Russian plans for sweeping into Moldova too.

Why didn't the Belorussian airborne forces participate?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on December 03, 2022, 02:26:22 AM
Russia’s initial plans for Ukraine.

Anyone who believes this was about NATO is delusional.

http://archive.ph/7cayk
Tell that to the folk at the other place. The lies being propagated there showcase the owner as a Kremlin mouth piece on steroids.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 03, 2022, 04:23:16 AM
I have a  figure of 10k to 13k Ukrainian troops killed in this war so far,with another 7k missing in action....source M.Podolyak and now officially confirmed.


This compares favourably with Russian troops current death toll of 90,600...source Ukraine MOD.


I suspect the HIMARS etc and the 155mm precision artillery being used by Ukraine has played a major part in the far higher death toll for the Russian orcs....all these being increasingly used on high concentrations of them.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 03, 2022, 04:45:11 AM
Tell that to the folk at the other place. The lies being propagated there showcase the owner as a Kremlin mouth piece on steroids.


That site needs shutting down ,as Russian TV was in this country.


The reasoning being that they're both pro-Russian propaganda outlets,so why should one be allowed to continue spewing it's Putler/Kremlin lies and rhetoric in the UK and not the other ?


I stopped viewing posts there some time ago..most of the participants,with a couple of exceptions who also post on here plus B.B.,i find to be abhorrent individuals lacking in any decency and morality whatsoever just like their heroes,some of whom are clearly drunk when posting.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 05, 2022, 01:33:19 AM
Tell that to the folk at the other place. The lies being propagated there showcase the owner as a Kremlin mouth piece on steroids.


I had to laugh at allegations against me of being "pro Ukraine".  Of course I am pro Ukraine.  Like any sane person.  As I noted if Ukraine had INVADED Russia, I would be "pro Russia". 


Russia is an autocracy.  Ukraine is not.  Both have ineffective, corrupt governments.  But, Ukrainians were fighting their local corruption.  Russians never have.  I am bemused by Westerners who support autocratic, corrupt regimes.  We all know they won't live there (other than Steve, who shut up when I pointed out he is not the "big shot" he claims to be).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 05, 2022, 03:37:02 AM

I had to laugh at allegations against me of being "pro Ukraine".  Of course I am pro Ukraine.  Like any sane person.  As I noted if Ukraine had INVADED Russia, I would be "pro Russia". 


Russia is an autocracy.  Ukraine is not.  Both have ineffective, corrupt governments.  But, Ukrainians were fighting their local corruption.  Russians never have.  I am bemused by Westerners who support autocratic, corrupt regimes.  We all know they won't live there (other than Steve, who shut up when I pointed out he is not the "big shot" he claims to be).


It bemuses me also,but the sad reality is that there are unpleasant people/nutjobs everywhere.


One only has to look at the comments by a certain rapper in the USA to see how mentally deranged some people are..the ludicrous beliefs he has totally ignoring the fact that if Hitler had won he'd have been raised in a concentration camp and no way would he have had the luxurious lifestyle he has now.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on December 05, 2022, 06:05:20 AM

I had to laugh at allegations against me of being "pro Ukraine".  Of course I am pro Ukraine.  Like any sane person.  As I noted if Ukraine had INVADED Russia, I would be "pro Russia". 


Russia is an autocracy.  Ukraine is not.  Both have ineffective, corrupt governments.  But, Ukrainians were fighting their local corruption.  Russians never have.  I am bemused by Westerners who support autocratic, corrupt regimes.  We all know they won't live there (other than Steve, who shut up when I pointed out he is not the "big shot" he claims to be).
Indeed. One doesn’t need to have connections to Ukraine to acknowledge right from wrong.
There seems to be complete cognitive dissonance amongst the rabid Putin supporters who trot out the same tired variants of ‘Nazism’ and other tripe to justify aggression on a scale unseen since WW2.


Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on December 05, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
Explosions rock Russian military airbases; new strikes hit Ukraine
http://dnyuz.com/2022/12/05/explosions-rock-russian-military-airbases-new-strikes-hit-ukraine/


Satellite Images Show Massive Destruction At Russian Air Base On Crimea
http://www.rferl.org/a/crimea-russian-air-base-attacked-satellite-images/31982540.html


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on December 05, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
http://youtu.be/RMU2xuIqLVU

http://youtu.be/t89Q1W4GkXw
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2022, 12:23:44 AM
This is very tangentially connected to the discussion of Russian autocracy. The last paragraphs proved prescient.

http://www.nationalreview.com/2006/11/kremlins-killing-ways-ion-mihai-pacepa/
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on December 06, 2022, 02:36:51 PM
Tell that to the folk at the other place. The lies being propagated there showcase the owner as a Kremlin mouth piece on steroids.

He is Bagdad Bob
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on December 08, 2022, 08:49:48 PM
One source of information that I like to follow is Denys Davydov on Telegram. He is a Ukrainian who reports on the latest developments.

Here's the Telegram link: http://t.me/pilotblog

He also has a YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/@DenysDavydov

If follow him on Telegram, you'll always see links to his latest YouTubes.

I searched for Denys before posting this information in case someone had already provided these links. So I hope this information is helpful.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on December 08, 2022, 09:16:08 PM
Peter Zeihan has had some interesting perspectives.
He pointed out that Russia HAS to keep the oil in the Siberian pipelines flowing.  If the pipeline from the Siberian oilfields stops flowing, the cold will thicken and gel the crude oil, and it will basically be impossible to ever resume flows again.  (I guess they could theoretically build a new pipeline, but how many decades would that take?)  Because countries are buying less Russian oil, Russia has simply stopped production in its warmer southern oilfields, because it will be possible to resume production someday.

Samara is a big junction point for pipelines and refineries.  Peter Zeihan pointed out that this is a soft place for Russia.  He expects Ukraine to target this with the long range drone they built which they just used to hit a couple Russian airfields recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wga-JPEWGzA
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on December 10, 2022, 02:47:55 AM
Russian military tire factory on fire

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-military-tire-factory-fire-211900110.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on December 10, 2022, 08:50:40 AM
Russian military tire factory on fire

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-military-tire-factory-fire-211900110.html

http://youtu.be/-HbuMZ2Xbe8
Title: Zelenskyy says Bakhmut is ‘destroyed’
Post by: 2tallbill on December 10, 2022, 08:55:17 AM
Zelenskyy says Bakhmut is ‘destroyed’
President Zelenskyy has said that Russian forces have “destroyed”
the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut where the most active fighting
in Ukraine is taking place.

Ukraine’s military also reports strikes in other provinces: Kharkiv and Sumy
in the northeast, central Ukraine’s Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhzhia in the
southeast and Kherson in the south.
read more here:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2022/12/10/russia-ukraine-live-news-zelenskyy-says-bakhmut-is-destroyed


Russia-Ukraine war live: Moscow has turned entire city of Bakhmut to ‘burnt ruins’, says Zelenskiy
The latest battles of Russia’s nine-and-a-half-month war in Ukraine have centred on
four provinces that Russian president Vladimir Putin illegally claimed to have annexed
in late September, the Associated Press reported.

The fighting indicates Moscow’s struggle to establish control of the regions and Ukraine’s
determination to reclaim them. Zelenskiy said the situation “remains very difficult” in
several frontline cities in eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk and Luhansk provinces.

Together, the provinces make up the Donbas, an expansive industrial region
bordering Russia that Putin identified as a focus from the war’s outset, where
Moscow-backed separatists have fought since 2014.

“Bakhmut, Soledar, Maryinka, Kreminna. For a long time, there is no living
place left on the land of these areas that have not been damaged by shells
and fire,” Zelenskiy said in his nightly video address.

read more here
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/dec/10/russia-ukraine-war-live-jens-stoltenberg-warns-against-conflict-spiralling-into-russia-nato-war
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on December 19, 2022, 10:53:42 AM
 A few newspaper articles about the war. 

http://wapo.st/3V5QivA

http://tinyurl.com/363c754e

http://youtu.be/jBaOO5CngMk
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on December 19, 2022, 11:53:44 AM
 Ukraine's army issued an instruction video on Monday with a step-by-step guide for Russian soldiers on how to surrender to one of its drones.

The video comes as part of Ukraine's "I Want to Live" project, a hotline that encourages Russians who are reluctant to fight in Ukraine to surrender.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-army-video-tells-russians-how-to-surrender-to-drone-2022-12
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 19, 2022, 12:22:38 PM
both my children and their husbands flew in to stay with my wife and me for the holidays
first time I've seen them in a year!
I feel so happy
but..
sad, as well
I am cut off from my Russian and Ukrainian friends
some are dead, 2020-2022 was a brutal time for stariks in Rossiya
most of the ones I knew are dead now
some were really good friends
some in-laws have been mobilized
the Russian mobilization WAS BRUTAL!
no advanced notification AT ALL
army show up at your door, reads the proclamation, and tells you to go pack your suitcase, you're coming with us!
just like you see on a sci-fi movie where the govenment swoops in to pick up some badly needed scientists to deal with the aliens!
BUT...
these guys are primarily trench diggers in Northern Crimea now
and all these guys are really too old for the military, my brother-in-law is 41
they ONLY selected guys to be mobilized who had past military training
and that left out the majority of young people
so instead they get the 40 yr olds

a week ago one of the big barracks north of the Massandra winery in Crimea was hit with one of them 50 yr old soviet target drones modified by Ukr and did major damage, my brother-in-law was there
he is allowed to phone his wife and children once per week, and is allowed to say little more than that he's OK...
his wife and children will be spending Christmas without him
same for the rest of them mobniks taken from the working class village of Shevchenko
none of them will know if their husband/son/father/brother/friend is alive on Christmas day or not
I couldn't imagine having my children in this situation

several of my friends and business associates are just missing in Kyiv
and the only info I can get is from when Kiev has power so I can try and contact them or others, so much of the time, I just get nothing...

there are few people in Russia who are not afraid to take my calls, and believe me, I am very careful with what I say on the phone while talking to Russians
but never the less, most are too paranoid to be identified as someone who receives a call from hated Amerika!

but from what I can gather, from those who will take my calls, the mood in Russia is really dark now
first, EVERYBODY'S sick, there's some weird viruses goin around all the big Russian cities
which is bad, cuz in some parts of Russia there's NO hospital space or doctors available, cuz the war took them, so ya gotta start with that
and then, the economy is starting to drag a bit, inflatze, lack of goods, shortages,
people are worried about losing their jobs, etc
then of course, anxiety about the war
there's a lot of negative sentiment about the war, similar to Vietnam for the USA
what's missing is an organized protest against the war
Putin has been very successful at preventing ANY kind of opposition to him within Russia
from controlling and distorting the media, to outright murder
whoever goes up against Putin, best not miss

it should be noted that it wasn't the Roman people who murdered the tyrant Caesar
it was other politicians in the Roman Senate
et tu Brute?

sadly, however, murdering Caesar, only meant he'd be replaced by other more brutal tyrants
which is likely to be Russia's future as well



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 19, 2022, 02:38:59 PM
A lot of the Russian mobiks look like they're in their fifties let alone forties.


That may be the heavy drinking making them look older than they are though.


Any disaffected Russian men should really be looking to join the Freedom of Russia Legion,which is now two Battalions strong ( around two thousand men ) .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 19, 2022, 04:29:56 PM
I know what the strength of a battalion  is (in the USA four companies)
I've served two countries already (USA and Israel) as an enlistee
back when I was "white and fluffy" and VERY young

I also know the looks I'd get from wimmin staring at me in my uniform
so I imagine that today if I wore tight fitting fatigues and a cocky beret in Odesa
coupled with the mystique of being a "foreign fighter"
I could kick back on Arcadia on Saturday night
and even a fossil like me could get some MAJOR action
and that's the sweetest kind, believe me...

you can't blame poor mobniks for the phuque-ups of their leader
no one in Russia is free
no one
everyone is a prisoner there
and everyone learns how to be a "model prisoner"

when Putin is deposed, it won't be because he started a war that killed a lot of Russians
he'll be deposed because he failed to retake Ukraine
Russians are the world's ultimate cynics
but never smart enuff to realize
that the joke's on them
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 21, 2022, 05:39:33 AM
Any of you guys in the USA going to be in Washington today to welcome President Zelensky ?


I'm sure you know he'll be carrying a Ukrainian flag personally signed by the defenders of Bakhmut yesterday,to be given to the USA as a thank you for your support.


As with Churchills visit to the USA during WW2 this is a pivotal moment in World history...and is huge for all of us,for our children and their children.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 21, 2022, 02:27:43 PM
zelensky and his security team took a train from Ukraine to poland
and then flew from Poland to Edwards AFB outside of DC
in the train's first class sleeper car you can fit 4 guys with their Kninkovs stowed in luggage
I wonder if the Ukrainian customs police on board knew it was Zelensky in the sealed cabin
my guess, is that at first no, but once underway they were told after their cellphones were taken away!!
this is EXACTLY howI used to smuggle "stuff" like platinum out of Russia/Ukraine!!!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 24, 2022, 11:56:16 AM
Russians who last week WOULD NOT TAKE MY CALLS
ARE CALLING ME, this week!!!
why?
cuz Putin is stealing their money from their bank accounts!!!
they are being notified that their deposit accounts are being "involuntarily converted" into Russian bonds (that pay over 10% BTW!!)
rather that get their money tied into bonds, many are liquidating their accounts
leading to a short term liquidity crisis for banks
as people are hoarding cash
today, there are withdrawal limits on Russian banks to counter this

Russians are begging me to help them, but I tell them. "I am retired" and have enough bonds, and don't want ANY bonds in ruble denomination, spossiba druzya!
going forward, I see MAJOR financial chaos for Russia in 2023!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on December 24, 2022, 03:18:47 PM
That's funny, I could imagine their disarray
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 25, 2022, 07:27:11 PM
Russia built the Berlin wall
Russia had a very big fall
all of Putin' tanks
and all of Putin's men
won't be able to put Russia back together again
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 26, 2022, 11:30:17 AM
Ruble down 20%.


Natural Gas price below last December.


Oil trading in the low $80's.


Patriots arriving in Ukraine soon.


Engels airbase hit twice,


Bakhmut holding.


Putler begging North Korea and Iran for weapons.


I don't know how to break this to Russia,but it's not going well for them ..and even rwd123 has gone missing from here..i wonder why ?  ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 26, 2022, 02:20:54 PM
100,000+ casualties, killed, seriously wounded, missing, etc
200,000 middle-aged men mobilized plus new conscription cycle of roughly same amount
400 million USD per day war cost
thousands of tanks, hundreds of aircraft, one major naval vessel
North Stream I and II DESTROYED! multi-billion loss for Russia, major contraction in oil and gas sales and production as well...
russian GDP contracted by 4% this quarter and is expected to drop another 4% next quarter
so by early summer 1/8 of Russia's GDP will have disappeared...
Russia has begun the involuntary conversion of private savings accounts into Russian government bonds causing people to withdraw their savings leading to a banking liquidity crisis
russian manufacturing exports have fallen 30% from a year ago
$60 cap on russian oil
huge surge in USA exporting LNG to replace Russian gas, i.e. USA eats Russia's lunch!!!
there are about 20 MAJOR mysterious fires every week in Russia
shortage of foreign components from car and aircraft parts to computer chips leading to manufacturing slowdown compounded by labor shortage due to mobilization
Russian solution to labor shortage - repeal child labor laws, make labor mandatory, so Russian children can now sing "Volga River Boatman's Song" Acapela while working after school in factories
Russians have travel and currency restrictions and other reduced freedoms as a result of the war
AND...
   it's
      a
         long
            way
               down

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2022, 09:02:04 AM
This is a report from an American reporter who embedded with the AFU on the frontline.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/02/trapped-in-the-trenches-in-ukraine
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 31, 2022, 10:51:41 AM
I hope you're not trying to "guilt-trip" some of us for not "being there"
even though, frankly we should be...
I have been SMART about my military service, both in the USA and Israel when I was young and volunteered to serve in a "technical" unit in both countries
this not only let me serve in a safe, comfortable environment (back then computers needed air conditioned rooms) but also gave me the BEST JOB AND BUSINESS NETWORKING you could ever imagine!!
what you civilians don't realize is that for every front-line soldier who carries a rifle, there's at least 10 whose jobs are to support him, everything from medics to truck engine repair
oh, and IED manufacturers
yes, let's not forget the bomb makers who will bring the thunder to Putin
PS, did you know that explosives are vasodilators?  sniff some and watch how your body reacts, after I did this, I threw away all the Viagra I had!!  weird!! I had no idea!!
OTOH, maybe it's "just me"

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 31, 2022, 11:53:38 AM
This is a report from an American reporter who embedded with the AFU on the frontline.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/02/trapped-in-the-trenches-in-ukraine

Two questions:

If I join up and am guaranteed a silly nickname right? Right???

And,

Do I get to choose that silly nickname or am I assigned one at random?


On the other hand in a moment of weakness I think I might op for a romance adventure instead. Similar write up but hopefully with explosions in all the right places.

Seriously though I think the article demonstrates that matters of troop loss may not be so different on the Ukrainian side. Is the Foreign Legion & foreigners bearing the brunt of the attacks and taking heavy losses but those losses not being reported as they aren't counted as 'Ukrainians' for that purpose? Are many foreigner fighters on the Ukrainian side leaving of their own accord with few foreigners coming into replace them. Then of course casualties among foreign fighters. I've no doubt Ukrainian forces have fought well and I am sympathetic to their cause, but I've never gotten the feeling that the Ukrainian government have been at all honest about their troop losses. If anything I tend to get the impression that they suppress their true troop loss figures more than the Russians do. I struggle to trust many a government but the Ukrainian government in particular I would be wary off, they've gotten a lot of sympathy because of the aggressive invasion by Russia but I'm just not sure people, journalists, politicians, etc are digging as they should be to hold the Ukrainian government to account and that as with all governments I believe is necessary.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2022, 12:20:42 PM
Most reliable sources have AFU losses at around 50,000.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 31, 2022, 02:41:33 PM
your number doesn't include Ukrainian civilians...
contrast that with number of Russian civilians killed...

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2022, 04:41:39 PM
Yes, it doesn’t. I believe the government has released estimates of civilian deaths.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on December 31, 2022, 05:10:06 PM
gulf of mexico is far away from Russia
we're just a bunch of nautical speed boat racing enthusiasts
who like carbon fiber speed boats with Kawasiki water cooled inboards
yup, nothing more to see here...

today was a GREAT day for sailing, perfect weather...



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 31, 2022, 05:36:09 PM



 If anything I tend to get the impression that they suppress their true troop loss figures more than the Russians do. I struggle to trust many a government but the Ukrainian government in particular I would be wary off, they've gotten a lot of sympathy because of the aggressive invasion by Russia but I'm just not sure people, journalists, politicians, etc are digging as they should be to hold the Ukrainian government to account and that as with all governments I believe is necessary.


What a load of nonsense.


The last "official " admission of losses by Russia was on 12th October,when Defense Minister Sergie Shoigu claimed that 5,397 Russian soldiers had died in Ukraine.


It's ok honest Sergie....Trench believes you.


And you now claim that the Russian Government is more honest about it's losses than the Ukrainian one...well in that case as the norm is for invaders to lose more troops than defenders at a ratio of 3:1 that would put Ukrainian military deaths at around 1,800 at that time,and yes that would include the foreign fighters.


Happy now ?


Of course with such a relatively low loss amount for their forces one wonders why honest Russia felt the need to mobilize another 300,000 men. :rolleyes:



The same Russian Government who proclaimed they had absolutely no intention of invading Ukraine back in February and that it was all western propaganda,and then a couple of days later invaded Ukraine.


You're not supplementing your income by now working for the Russian propaganda troll factory are you ?


Give your head a wobble FFS.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 31, 2022, 07:51:01 PM

What a load of nonsense.


The last "official " admission of losses by Russia was on 12th October,when Defense Minister Sergie Shoigu claimed that 5,397 Russian soldiers had died in Ukraine.


It's ok honest Sergie....Trench believes you.


And you now claim that the Russian Government is more honest about it's losses than the Ukrainian one...well in that case as the norm is for invaders to lose more troops than defenders at a ratio of 3:1 that would put Ukrainian military deaths at around 1,800 at that time,and yes that would include the foreign fighters.


Happy now ?


Of course with such a relatively low loss amount for their forces one wonders why honest Russia felt the need to mobilize another 300,000 men. :rolleyes:



The same Russian Government who proclaimed they had absolutely no intention of invading Ukraine back in February and that it was all western propaganda,and then a couple of days later invaded Ukraine.


You're not supplementing your income by now working for the Russian propaganda troll factory are you ?


Give your head a wobble FFS.

I agree with this US General's estimate of troop losses on both sides:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-100000-russian-military-casualties-ukraine-top-us-general-2022-11-10/

I said as much in an earlier post a good number of weeks/months before this US General came out and said the same, that I estimated Ukrainian troop losses would amount to around 100,000 men roughly around Christmas. How did I know? Simple, I just took earlier figures of Ukrainian troop losses, those that were stated from Ukrainian troops on the ground, their counting of their losses over certain days/weeks and times them to get rough average monthly losses and times them by the number of months going forward, to December for example.

To my mind taking troop loss numbers to date from troops on the ground is a likely far better and potentially more accurate way to get an idea of troop loss numbers than from the Ukrainian government. The Russian government I know had come out with varying figures depending on who speaks on troop loss figures. The sources that again probably hold more weight are those quoting somewhere in the direction of 100,000 plus troop losses. Anything far below that on either side and I am skeptical.

Even Boe's article that she shared kind of gave an anecdotal account that both sides were losing men all the time. That it wasn't necessarily substantially more in the Russian side while the Ukrainian side had troops that were seemingly immortal/invincible. We have to remember that Zelensky is as much waging a propaganda battle as a real battle. He can't be seen to be doing anything other than beating the odds in order to secure western help. Sure Ukrainian forces are doing well but that is with western aid. We saw how they were starting to fall back in the Donbass/Lugansk before the western Himars arrived and reversed their fortunes and silenced the Russians artillery advantage.

Troop losses are always a question of whether they are lost lives, casualties that can no longer fight, casualties that may return to fight, POW's, deserters, those able to leave, etc. I'm not saying for certain it's around 100,000 killed both sides but I reckon it's somewhere near that in effect. I don't also mean to sound callous in all of this, moreso to the Ukrainians as it is if course them who fight on the ground losing their lives to stop the invaders so they chose to give up/risk their life while others talk of the wider macro issues, ourselves of course included.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 01, 2023, 04:03:35 AM
This is an interesting article recently out:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/russia-ukraine-defense-minister-mobilization-putin-war/32202105.html

Think it was always thought Russia would mobilize more troops in January. So will be interesting to see if this comes about, wouldn't surprise me.

I don't think Russia has chewed through the previous 300,000 conscripts already. Some would have plugged the gaps, perished become casualties or flown. Many will have filled previous troop losses, the possibly 100,000 or so. Others we have heard are training in Belarus. I think in general it could be part of a build up of troops over time to potentially vastly outnumber the Ukrainians. Some potentially possibly for further invasions from Belarus and possibly south of Moldova. I tend to see Russia as not particularly concerned with individual Russian troops losing their lives in the war through going in with little or no training but more about eventually throwing large numbers at it in order to overpower their opponent - Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on January 01, 2023, 08:54:20 AM
Ukraine losses are rarely published.
"Ukraine’s president would make the total public “when the right moment comes”.   Ukraine has been tight-lipped about the number of its military dead and wounded, citing its worry that revealing the total would give Russia a military advantage. The first official total was announced in August when Ukraine’s army chief, Valeriy Zaluzhnyi, said 9,000 had died. The total number of injured has not been stated."

One report back in June:
http://newsreadonline.com/ukraine-lost-about-10000-soldiers-in-war-with-russia-arestovich/

Civilian deaths are estimated here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Civilian_deaths
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 01, 2023, 11:58:16 AM
Ukraine losses are rarely published.
"Ukraine’s president would make the total public “when the right moment comes”.   Ukraine has been tight-lipped about the number of its military dead and wounded, citing its worry that revealing the total would give Russia a military advantage. The first official total was announced in August when Ukraine’s army chief, Valeriy Zaluzhnyi, said 9,000 had died. The total number of injured has not been stated."

One report back in June:
http://newsreadonline.com/ukraine-lost-about-10000-soldiers-in-war-with-russia-arestovich/

Civilian deaths are estimated here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Civilian_deaths

Absolute bs to my mind that just 9,000 had died towards that point in the conflict. Gives a cartoon like impression to the conflict like where a cartoon character gets whamed by something and jumps up little the worse for it and carries on. Those figures I just don't trust, just way to little to be plausible, way of the likely real total.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 01, 2023, 01:21:55 PM
Absolute bs to my mind that just 9,000 had died towards that point in the conflict. Gives a cartoon like impression to the conflict like where a cartoon character gets whamed by something and jumps up little the worse for it and carries on. Those figures I just don't trust, just way to little to be plausible, way of the likely real total.


Not quite as BS as Russia's official claim that 5,400 Russian troops had been killed in Ukraine by October though. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 01, 2023, 02:29:51 PM

Not quite as BS as Russia's official claim that 5,400 Russian troops had been killed in Ukraine by October though. :rolleyes:

Seems for a full scale modern warfare that has been running almost a year now surprisingly few troops are dying on either side if these casualty figures are to be believed, incredible indeed!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on January 01, 2023, 04:47:24 PM
I have mentioned before that I enjoy Denys on Telegram for his updates: http://t.me/pilotblog

Another source that I find amusing because his take on the Russian conflict is Misha from Quora. Here's one of his latest answers: http://qr.ae/prvB3n

You can view Misha's profile and read his other responses.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 01, 2023, 05:28:13 PM
I have mentioned before that I enjoy Denys on Telegram for his updates: http://t.me/pilotblog

Another source that I find amusing because his take on the Russian conflict is Misha from Quora. Here's one of his latest answers: http://qr.ae/prvB3n

You can view Misha's profile and read his other responses.

Micha quotes approx 2 percent of the young Russian generation currently sent to serve in Ukraine (whatever age bracket that encompasses I assume he is talking broadly which is ok). I feel Micha fails to understand how ruthless Putin is though and all those supporting him in Russia. To me he's the old Soviet style of ruthlessness. Odds are he doesn't care and sees 2 percent of current generation out there no big deal, I think he'll happily go on throwing more and more of whatever generation at it. If we are only talking about 2 percent then that gives Putin many more percent to work through and I think he'll more than readily dig into whatever there is to try and win.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 01, 2023, 05:55:03 PM
thus Russia became what Russians were always told Capitalism was like during Soviet times.
murdering not only the truth tellers but the truth as well
while 500 families stole 1/4 of the wealth in Russia and transferred it into offshore accounts
which exhaused the system and it  reached the end
after already eating itself completely
with nothing else left to steal
unless you steal it from someone else (who lives nearby)

therefor, this war REALLY is about the existentialist survival of Russia's oligarchy ONLY, with Pootin being the leader of the pack
AND...
importantly, WTF is gonna happen should the Russian oligarchy lose this war, before Russia's presidential election in March, 2024, just 14 months from now

timing...
is everything

blessed are the fuse makers, for they shall bring forth the cleansing fire from heaven


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on January 01, 2023, 06:17:01 PM
I feel Micha fails to understand how ruthless Putin is though and all those supporting him in Russia.

Misha is no friend of the Russian leadership. He understands exactly how it functions and behaves. Go through some of his other posts. Many of them are quite entertaining because he writes with a deep cynicism, and that was before this war began.

Here is his profile where you can see his prior posts: http://www.quora.com/profile/Misha-Firer
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 02, 2023, 06:45:56 AM
The before and aftermath of a HIMAARS strike yesterday on a Russian base in Makiivka,Donetsk region.Apparently a survivor in hospital said there are only 100 survivors of the 600 mobilized Russian troops that were present.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlaS__jX0AIIOZb?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 05, 2023, 05:34:09 PM
The Untold Story of ‘Russiagate’ and the Road to War in Ukraine

http://tinyurl.com/bdxsyv66
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 06, 2023, 01:53:35 PM
the US wants to help Ukraine win by doing as little as possible in the most risk averse way possible...
this is BY FAR THE MOST EFFECTIVE STRATEGY from a "game" perspective, as in "Theory of Games and Economic behavior" by J. Von Neuman
compare it to the terrible mistakes made by (Ras)Putin
Putin will continue his mistakes, because he's now stuck in a rut in a Ukrainian road
and can't extricate himself

if you created some kinda scoring system, then USA gets 10X leveraging in weapons, meaning every dollar's worth destroys' ten dollar's worth of enemy material
while Russia loses assets, over 100,000 casualties, over 4,000 tanks, hundreds of planes, etc, etc
and USA has
ZERO LOSS
so the war costs Russia TEN TIMES more than USA PER DAY
and Russian economy is 10% of USA's
and the backbone of Russia's economy is rapidly collapsing
being taken over by the USA

and ALL THIS
because of moves that Putin has done

so next month there'sll be yet another mass mobilization in Russia, bigger than the last
and this will play into later "human wave" tactics with counter-fire against HIMARS
butt his will fail spectacularly as well...

cuz of what the computers in Odenton, Maryland are sending to Ukraine from Satellite 326
all that sweet terchnology from Iraq's "Eye in the Sky" repurposed for satellites instead of drones and can track individual soldiers, the flow of supplies, and everything else
and squeeze it into a spreadsheet translated to Ukrainian, encryped with SHA-256 and sent to Ukraine on a secure channel
tracks all movement, and builds a complete picture of enemies positions, updated EVERY 90 minutes
it knows more about the Russians than the Russians even know....
same technology that directed Israel's response to the last Palestinian Rocket festival and knocked out 1/4 of underground bunkers, which took the palestinians years of back breaking work, in just a few days

as Borat would say, "very nice..."

I predicted all this years ago, and of course now that it's ACTUALLY happening, I'm retiring and won't get to work on it directly, or be involved, major disappointment
cuz this is the best Ass Kicking Machine anyone has ever made

Satellite 326 calls out the names of the Russians who are to die that day
and what can the Russians do in return?
ABSOLUTELY FOOKING NOTHING!
they think the problem is cellphones...

it's only 14 months to the Russian presidential election
by then, Russia will have lost about 12% of projected GDP as of Feb 1, 2022
inflation will be about 15%
manufacturing will have declined by 40% and be focused on military and not civilian production

USA is building more and more and more LNG terminals in Europe, now even Germany
and are QUICKLY STEALING Russia's European gas business which WAS the backbone of it's whole economy!!!
Russia will be selling to Europe a tiny fraction of the oil and gas, that it sold back in 2021...
and wherever else it sells, it sells at asteep discount
a HUGE decline in income for Russia

question is, will the rising number of casualties lead to awareness and protests
when EVERYBODY knows SOMEBODY KIA in Putin's folley

two years from now
one of these two things are gonna happen
Putin is no longer President of Russian Federation
or
Putin detonates a nuclear weapon over Ukraine






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 06, 2023, 07:42:21 PM
Apparently Ukraine's GDP is down 30 percent in the last year although that is apparently better than the 40-50 percent GDP decline predicted. Bakhmut is around 60 percent destroyed.

Petrol pump prices here in the UK are nearly back down to what they were before the start of the war, around £1.50 per litre or gallin can't remember which where it was £1.44 - £1.46 roughly. So way down from the £1.88 or so high whatever it was something like that. So it definitely looks like they are plugging the gap and Russia could lose out big time as a result of that. Good for us bad strategic blunder by Putler for Russia.

Putler is hell bent on reconquering Ukraine and Ukraine won't give up, neither side can afford to give in. Both sides will continue to throw all they've got at this I believe until one side collapses in or the nuclear button is pressed by Putler.

Either way it looks like they are both doing each other over in the process. Neither are likely to be winning as a result it's just unfortunate that Ukraine never picked this fight and they'll likely face the same economic misery as Russia. Though that said many Russians never wanted it either only Putler and a certain percentage of nutters in Russia were apparently up for economic catastrophe.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 06, 2023, 10:34:29 PM
russians call the NSA HQ in Odenton, Maryland "Chorny Kub"
this is where Edward Snowden worked
and has the gigantic server racks to process the satellite data and extract all the hidden details and translates the data and "filter it" and send it to Ukrainians every 90 minutes!!

imagine if Hitler had a spy satellite and an AI computer that together not only told him that the allies were gonna attack Normandy on Jun 6, 1944, but also told him how many troops and ships would be involved and gave him the updated positions for each one and once they landed, would still track them and could tell him how much fuel, ammo, etc was being transported and consumed, how many casualties, etc

fortunately,
Hitler had nothing like this
and Russia has NOTHING like this!
only the USA and Israel!!!

this is Putin's main real enemy right now!! 
it shredded insurgents in Iraq, devastated Palestinians in the West Bank, and now is fookin up the Russians deployed in Ukraine in a most egregious manner!!!
and each time it gets better, smarter
I don't know what the name of this program is
but I believe I am the first person to publicly connect the dots

BTW, a few months from now, after the offensive, the following bit of news is unlikely to get much notice,
but...
there's gonna be this thing in the news, called "GPT-4"
twenty years from now, this thing will be responsible for the disappearance of about 50% of all current jobs


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on January 07, 2023, 04:08:07 AM
the US wants to help Ukraine win by doing as little as possible in the most risk averse way possible...
this is BY FAR THE MOST EFFECTIVE STRATEGY from a "game" perspective, as in "Theory of Games and Economic behavior" by J. Von Neuman
compare it to the terrible mistakes made by (Ras)Putin
Putin will continue his mistakes, because he's now stuck in a rut in a Ukrainian road
and can't extricate himself

if you created some kinda scoring system, then USA gets 10X leveraging in weapons, meaning every dollar's worth destroys' ten dollar's worth of enemy material
while Russia loses assets, over 100,000 casualties, over 4,000 tanks, hundreds of planes, etc, etc
and USA has
ZERO LOSS
so the war costs Russia TEN TIMES more than USA PER DAY
and Russian economy is 10% of USA's
and the backbone of Russia's economy is rapidly collapsing
being taken over by the USA

and ALL THIS
because of moves that Putin has done

so next month there'sll be yet another mass mobilization in Russia, bigger than the last
and this will play into later "human wave" tactics with counter-fire against HIMARS
butt his will fail spectacularly as well...

cuz of what the computers in Odenton, Maryland are sending to Ukraine from Satellite 326
all that sweet terchnology from Iraq's "Eye in the Sky" repurposed for satellites instead of drones and can track individual soldiers, the flow of supplies, and everything else
and squeeze it into a spreadsheet translated to Ukrainian, encryped with SHA-256 and sent to Ukraine on a secure channel
tracks all movement, and builds a complete picture of enemies positions, updated EVERY 90 minutes
it knows more about the Russians than the Russians even know....
same technology that directed Israel's response to the last Palestinian Rocket festival and knocked out 1/4 of underground bunkers, which took the palestinians years of back breaking work, in just a few days

as Borat would say, "very nice..."

I predicted all this years ago, and of course now that it's ACTUALLY happening, I'm retiring and won't get to work on it directly, or be involved, major disappointment
cuz this is the best Ass Kicking Machine anyone has ever made

Satellite 326 calls out the names of the Russians who are to die that day
and what can the Russians do in return?
ABSOLUTELY FOOKING NOTHING!
they think the problem is cellphones...

it's only 14 months to the Russian presidential election
by then, Russia will have lost about 12% of projected GDP as of Feb 1, 2022
inflation will be about 15%
manufacturing will have declined by 40% and be focused on military and not civilian production

USA is building more and more and more LNG terminals in Europe, now even Germany
and are QUICKLY STEALING Russia's European gas business which WAS the backbone of it's whole economy!!!
Russia will be selling to Europe a tiny fraction of the oil and gas, that it sold back in 2021...
and wherever else it sells, it sells at asteep discount
a HUGE decline in income for Russia

question is, will the rising number of casualties lead to awareness and protests
when EVERYBODY knows SOMEBODY KIA in Putin's folley

two years from now
one of these two things are gonna happen
Putin is no longer President of Russian Federation
or
Putin detonates a nuclear weapon over Ukraine
Very good analysis  :applaud:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 07, 2023, 07:36:21 AM
However good the weapons the West has to throw against Putler he'll keep sending in more men with whatever he's got. Russia is now suckered into this conflict of Putler's choosing and now for both sides there is no way out apart from whoever ends up the victor.

As Krim rightly seems to have pointed out Russia has inadvertently given up the strongest hold they had over Europe with their Oil & Gas. Now that other supplies and methods are being utilized it looks like they have likely buggered themselves for good on that one. That spells long term economic catastrophe for their economy. Added to that the economic decline due to the war and trade sanctions and Russia economic future looks bleak. Russians in the future aren't going to be thanking Putler that's for sure for their economic plight.

It could have been won so easily by Putler but they ended up bungling the Invasion big time with one big strategic mistake after another. Had they cut off the European border invading from Belarus towards Lviv and coming out of Moldova to take up border crossing points they would almost certainly have won by now, after a few weeks most probably. One of the gripes Ukrainian troops still have to this day is a shortage of ammunition & weapons. Had the Russians been clever enough to close the land border Ukrainian troops would have run out of both long ago. I don't wish to see the Russians win but their bungling has landed both them and the Ukrainians in a long bloody war they are now both trapped in with economic & personal misery for both sides unfortunately as a result.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 07, 2023, 09:09:20 AM
An interesting article on LNG:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/07/germany-wind-energy-greens/

Appears they are putting them up real quick in Europe/Germany, in about 10 months thereby crushing Europe's dependency on Russia for Gas & Oil. Add to that Gas & Oil output increases and development from elsewhere and Russia's advantage there over Europe has gone.

With the development of Nuclear Fusion and time out from relying upon Russia for Energy, Europe will likely be entirely independent of any energy need from Russia by the time the conflict is over and won't want to know about Russia supplying it with anything now they know the price of that reliance.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 07, 2023, 10:03:37 AM
this is a "war of attrition"
all about addition and subtraction
how much equipment can one side continually add to the fight vrs the other side
and how much equipment and people are lost on each side
and whoever has the most points WINS!!!
when I "do the math" I see that what the NATO/Ukraine alliance can throw into the war  vrs what the  Russia/Iran/North Korea alliance can throw back,  favors the western alliance IMMENSELY...
if Putin loses his next two offensives, and the first one is gonna happen within the next 6 weeks, then he has one last decision to make
which WMD to use?
right now, a buncha crazy Russians are "bending Putin's ear"
There's the Novichok group
and there's the Nuke EMP group
which group will Putin promote to the front?
Title: Tom Clancy
Post by: ML on January 07, 2023, 10:23:11 AM

I don't know what the name of this program is,
but I believe I am the first person to publicly connect the dots.

Actually, Tom Clancy was writing about it 10-20 years ago.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 07, 2023, 04:28:12 PM
this is a "war of attrition"
all about addition and subtraction
how much equipment can one side continually add to the fight vrs the other side
and how much equipment and people are lost on each side
and whoever has the most points WINS!!!
when I "do the math" I see that what the NATO/Ukraine alliance can throw into the war  vrs what the  Russia/Iran/North Korea alliance can throw back,  favors the western alliance IMMENSELY...
if Putin loses his next two offensives, and the first one is gonna happen within the next 6 weeks, then he has one last decision to make
which WMD to use?
right now, a buncha crazy Russians are "bending Putin's ear"
There's the Novichok group
and there's the Nuke EMP group
which group will Putin promote to the front?

As I think you correctly stated earlier Krim this war essentially costs the west nothing as in fact they gain. The West particularly the US has vast quantities of military hardware in its army. A lot of that hardware sits around and gets used in phoney war games, training, etc - generally boys toys. At some point that military hardware will become/is becoming obsolete as new stuff is designed. So it's only going to be junked anyway so giving some of it to Ukraine makes little difference. The US in particular has tons of military equipment it will unlikely ever use in real combat. So the cost to the US of donating some stuff it would only junk in the near future us essentially zero.

Russia on the other hand is being run ragged by it all made all the worse by their blunders in Ukraine. I don't see Russia as giving up. Who wins in Ukraine is really down to how far either side is prepared to go and when. Ukraine has to hope on Russia getting so badly busted up that it starts to break up from it all or Putler is replaced to allow for a Russian pull out should Ukraine keep pushing Russian forces back. I personally think it's time to stand clear as an individual as their likely to be slogging it out for some time to come out there with the situation in both countries getting more dire all the while.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Patagonie on January 07, 2023, 05:32:03 PM
this is a "war of attrition"
all about addition and subtraction
how much equipment can one side continually add to the fight vrs the other side
and how much equipment and people are lost on each side
and whoever has the most points WINS!!!
when I "do the math" I see that what the NATO/Ukraine alliance can throw into the war  vrs what the  Russia/Iran/North Korea alliance can throw back,  favors the western alliance IMMENSELY...
if Putin loses his next two offensives, and the first one is gonna happen within the next 6 weeks, then he has one last decision to make
which WMD to use?
right now, a buncha crazy Russians are "bending Putin's ear"
There's the Novichok group
and there's the Nuke EMP group
which group will Putin promote to the front?

I don't see Russia conducting anything surprising except chemical or nuke, as they have already lost the strategical and tactical initiative.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 07, 2023, 06:08:28 PM
In theory if Russia get enough Kalashnikovs & Men together they could potentially overwhelm Ukraine's army by force of numbers. If Russia could eventually field about one million men or something towards that they might do it. Ukraine won't likely be able to bring to bear anywhere near that number. That said I wouldn't necessarily call it a certain road to victory but a possible one.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 07, 2023, 06:47:18 PM
"Actually, Tom Clancy was writing about it 10-20 years ago."

NOT what I'm talking about
I'm talking specifically about Ukraine, and a specific American spy satellite that went up just weeks before the Russian invasion, and this satellite composes the "eyes" of this system
the other end, the brain, is on the ground in Maryland
and that's connected to the fists in Ukraine and tells them where to hit
it's a primitive Level I Skynet
it treats war as an abstract game of machines vrs men
so far, it hasn't gone too well for the humans who've been figthin the machines in the different prototype wars, Iraq/Afghanistan, Palestine, Ukraine kinda like the Spanish Civil War and Japanese invasion of China were prototype wars for WWII

I expect over time, as the machines get smarter, and more numerous
it's just gonna get worse and worse for the humans on the battlefield...
so that when the REAL GLOBAL WAR breaks out, this technogy will be a human lawn mower
and Russia is falling further and further behind in this area of technology
comapred to the West...
they need something else to counterbalance against this
nukes won't work, cuz west has nukes to
but west ain't got NO Novichok
and yo mama ain't got no novichok
hirroshi starry nokichok
ya loobit

bad boys!
whatcha gonna do when a cruise missile with novichok comes lookin for YOU!

whoever uses chemical cruise missiles first, will promote its use by others
like say Iran...

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 08, 2023, 12:19:00 PM
and they'll have FUN, FUN, FUN, til the Americans take their cruise missiles AWAY-YYYYYYY!!!

a stock kh-55  maxed out on over-drive
TOR spoofers wacked UA 752
to slow down the spread of kh-55s
those who did this, know the time of the rude beast slouching towards slumbering Bethleham
is not too far on the horizon
they spilled the blood of innocents to slow him down


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 08, 2023, 01:55:23 PM
Ideal would be if Russia broke up into smaller pieces. Then in return for the West helping out those poor impoverished Russian states they had to give up all of their nukes. Best case scenario I reckon to the end of this conflict.

Of course that and including visa free access for all westerners ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 09, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
An interesting piece here:

http://eurasiantimes.com/t-90-tank-ukraine-is-blowing-up-abandoned-russian-tanks-to-score-pr-victory-over-moscow-indian-tankman/?amp

Pro Russian or Impartial?

India has shown some pro-Russian support for Putlers actions. However, India also trades with the West as well as Russia it appears. The article itself is apparently by a retired Indian Colonel though maybe still connected to the Indian Army. I thought an interesting alternative take on things anyway.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 10, 2023, 03:31:46 PM
Looks like Bakhmut & Soledar are about to fall after being pounded to bits by Russian Artillery. Looks like the Russians are still managing to get artillery munitions to the front despite the Ukrainians having Himars.

Ukrainians stating that they are constantly in need of more weapons & ammo to hold off the Russians and still too small on that front. Most of their Soviet equipment has been used up and now Ukrainians rely mostly on western weapons supply. Germans are donating some Marders so possibly could ease their situation.

So now to see if Ukraine can counter anywhere. They took back a fair amount of territory in the north but with troop reinforcements on the Russian side regaining further ground may be harder this year.

Two British aid workers missing last seen going towards Soledar so doesn't look like a good start to the new year for them. Looking like they probably had it.

From this source looks like we might be supplying some Challenger MK2 tanks, possibly 10 as things are going looking like they might need it. The Challenger MK2 tanks being replaced by the Challenger MK3 tanks at the moment so getting rid of old stock. Still likely better than the old Soviet gear though:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/eurasiantimes.com/uk-considering-possibility-of-supplying-challenger-2-tanks/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 11, 2023, 04:52:40 AM
The AFU disagrees.

http://mobile.twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1613127223384444931/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1613127223384444931&currentTweetUser=wartranslated
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on January 11, 2023, 08:32:40 AM
The AFU disagrees.

http://mobile.twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1613127223384444931/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1613127223384444931&currentTweetUser=wartranslated

Boe, thanks for reference.

However, I get message:  "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 11, 2023, 08:46:57 AM
Apparently Poland has decided to transfer a company of Leopard Tanks to Ukraine.


The UK has announced the intention to supply Ukraine with Tanks.


Germany is going to supply Ukraine with a Patriot Air Defence system.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on January 11, 2023, 09:17:29 AM
100 Ukrainians soon to go to Oklahoma for training to operate and maintain Patriots.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 11, 2023, 09:42:47 AM
Well the orcs that gained access to some of Soledar may well be regretting it now.


Latest report from one hour ago.


"Ukrainian artillery has been hitting Russian units in Soledar all day with precision strikes.


Their exposed positions are easy for Ukrainian drone operators to spot ".


This is what happens when you first level an area then try and take it....idiots.


Sounds like a massacre of orcs is occurring in Soledar,lured into a trap by a slight withdrawal of the AFU and highly unlikely they'll be able to hold their positions for very long.


Update : I've just seen an actual video of a Wagner Unit entering the partly walled-garden of a levelled property,just south of the Salt mine in Soledar.They're spotted by a Drone,start a panic-stricken stampede out of the garden,then the artillery hits them leaving a result of a lot of Wagner orcs lying around in bits. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 11, 2023, 10:15:24 AM
the flow of money from the gas industry to the Russian government
was as important as the flow of water from the Nile was to ancient Egypt
70% of Russian government revenue WAS the gas industry
BUT NOT ANY MORE!!!!

that gas money river had little canals carved into it, the biggest was the Putin canal, but there are hundreds of others that are siphoning water out of the main river into their own little sub-canals and so-on and so-forth

as of Jan 1, 2023, the water level in the river and canals is down 55% from a year ago!
two of the main inflows that cost BILLIONS to build are gone completely
and it seriously looks like that 2 years from now that flow of gas and money from Europe to Russia will be close to ZERO!!!

and worse of all, it's arch-enemy "AMERIKA" is taking this lucrative gas business away from Russia upon which their government is SO DEPENDENT!!!
while at the same time America's war industry is blowing the kakashka out of the Russian military
with the only consequence being that American defense companies are making record breaking production levels not seen since WWII
while Russia loses hundreds of billions of dollars in war costs through an "involuntary inventory reduction program"

America simply recycles their oldest weapons to Ukraine and replaces them with brand new freshly made ones
as the old weapons rain down upon poor Russian Gopnicks and kills them by the tens of thousands
Americans are safely home in bed
ahhh - the heavy price of victory...  what's Lockheed up to now, per share?

the longer Putin does this, the more he loses...
so what does that imply?

that he DOES have a plan to WIN
but to be able to get to a winning state to from where he currently is...
would require a freakin MIRACLE to happen
something BIBLICAL


There is ALREADY a HUGE budget shortfall for this year in Russia and next year because they were based on projected dividends from GazProm which is set by the Russian governemnt to begin with, so they use current income estimate for their budget
dividend? did you say GazProm dividend?
HaHa
maybe a kopec, and NOT a kopec per share, but a kopec TOTAL divided by the number of shares
you want GazProm shares?
just walk outside in Moscow City Center
GazProm shares are those pieces of paper blowing down the street

the "drought"
is also gonna reduce the "special projects" for oligarchs, cause there won't be ANY spare GAZ billions to put into those
no more Sochi hotels, bridge to Krimea, etc....

now that this year's budget and the following ones are ALL SCREWED!!
HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in the red (appropriate color, no?)
what is Russia to do?

either gobble up their remaining foreign reserves + gold stock pile
or convert all government debt to rubles
and buy as many printing presses as they can

i'm gonna go with the printing press approach
so by end of next year, I see 50-100% inflation in Russia

America has Ju Jitsu economic skills
use your opponents moves against him
while you use minimum force
subdue your opponent and let him tire himself out
until he can't really fight any more

Russians have a myth in Crimea
about two snakes devouring each other simultaneously, each eating the other tail first
which one lives?
which one dies?

you ask yourself this
as you watch the two snakes struggle






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 11, 2023, 11:25:08 AM
Interesting that Ukraine is being inundated with people from around the world asking to fight for Ukraine...many even offering to pay for the privilege.


However,the Ukrainians are being VERY selective on who they will allow to join their armed forces...saying volunteers need to have particular skills.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 11, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
There are daily video updates from the AFU from both Soledar and Bahkmut ...i suspect this  is in response to the Russian bot operation going into overdrive desperately trying to proclaim a victory somewhere and making false claims.


The important thing is that both towns are still held by the AFU...as of this morning  ;D



I suspect Trench might enjoy the one from Soledar where a rather pleasant young female soldier is giving  updates.normally accompanied by fierce-looking male soldiers...she's one of five thousand Ukrainian women fighting on the front,and from the ones i've seen many are absolutely stunning. :P


Frostbite is becoming a real problem,with one soldier having to be evacuated and about to lose all his toes.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 12, 2023, 04:01:23 AM
Ukrainian forces have made advances towards Kreminna in recent days,with battles now in the western outskirts.


In the Donetsk region ..the General Staff of the AFU.


"During the past day the Air Force made 20 strikes on enemy concentration areas,as well as three strikes on the positions of it's anti-aircraft systems.


During the past day ,UA soldiers shot down a KA-52 Helicopter,as well as two reconnaissance UAV's of the "Orian -10" type.
Rockets and artillerymen of the Armed Forces hit the enemy control post,7 manpower concentration areas ,and three ammunition depots of the invaders. "


Nice start to the day today...Ukrainian forces downed a Russian SU-25 attack aircraft on the eastern frontline.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 12, 2023, 07:52:38 AM
Another video from Solader this morning from Commander "Witch"  ( yeah i can imagine she's left a few blokes spellbound in her time ),this time while she's driving around in the town.


"As for the operational situation today ,i must say that the Russian forces have stopped the offensive.Our artillery is working very powerfully today,very effectively.Many people are now falling into a daze about the solidarity,about the flank bypass.If we talk about military science,i want to tell you one thing.Rapid advance of the troops on the flanks makes these flanks very vulnerable.So you don't have to fall into a daze.The front is big and we constantly move 500,000 metres back and forth on the front.
Today some positions have retreated,because we still value the lives of our soldiers.Unlike the Russians ,who simply use Wagner's troops and their units as cannon fodder, our Commanders save the lives of the military.And if there is an opportunity to save ,we will always save it.This must be understood correctly.We do not need a victory at any cost.We need a victory that will be a victory,not just a big loss.
So now we are working very actively,not only in this direction.I can't tell you all the details ,but i want to point out the Armed Forces Of Ukraine can trust them.We hold the defense,we control the situation,we understand what the enemy is doing,how it does it's actions and why it does it,and decisions are made that can block certain actions of the occupation troops.
All i can say is glory to Ukraine ,glory to our nation,glory to our soldiers.Everything will be fine.Sometimes in order to win,you need to play a game of pita."







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 12, 2023, 07:35:09 PM
According to Euronews, Soledar is littered with the bodies of both Ukrainians & Russians. My guess is that would sound accurate enough of the situation given the intense fighting happening in that area.

It sounds like Russia all along is probably taking greater casualties but it sounds like Ukraine is also taking many casualties as well.

At this point it looks like this may be the scene of things for a while, heavy battles with much of a stalemate situation going on unless one side can bring something extra to bear.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 13, 2023, 08:29:09 AM
Chernovoltsev, the head of the NII-2 research facility, was just fired!
so that means, it ain't gonna be Novichok, that Putin will turn into a shovel to dig himself out of the hole he's in
it's gonna be SOMETHING ELSE!!!
and it all points to one THING!!

Putin's calculations over the risk of escalation
are influenced by the fact that he knows that under current conditions, the Russian economy will suffer a major collapse in 2 years IF the war continues...
because of that, he's motivated to take risks
and he STILL thinks he can bluff the west, if he takes it, right to the EDGE

instead of the complete conquest of Ukraine
Rasputin will take a new position, and try to permanently keep his territorial gains in the south and east promote some kind of "truce"
and then rebuild his military for the future

if Ukraine, tries to recapture the territory in the south and east, it will be a war of attrition, Russia has no problem sacrificing gazillions of gopnicks from remote Russian provinces
going forward,
if I were in charge of Ukraine's strategy, instead of spending Ukrainian lives recapturing territory
i'd keep doing what they're doing, attacking logistics (these attacks pay huge dividends)
and just keep Russia "pinned down" for as long as it takes, until their collapsed economy forces them to withdraw
patience is a difficult virtue to muster, when little kids are being killed, but truth is always on the side of that which is most difficult

let the russians exert themselves with "offensives" which thanks to the West, Ukraine will have more knowledge regarding Russian positions and movements than Russian commanders
Ukraine will be a gaint python squeezing the life out of the russian military and economy



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 13, 2023, 08:52:47 AM
Darth Putin@DarthPutinKGB


Will arrest whole of Russia & send them to Wagner so i can advance at 1km a day & be in Kiev by 2027 with just 8 million casualties.


I remain a master strategist.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 13, 2023, 10:15:22 AM
"Will arrest whole of Russia & send them to Wagner so i can advance at 1km a day & be in Kiev by 2027 with just 8 million casualties."

not a joke, this has been going on for YEARS...
just not up to 8 million YET...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 13, 2023, 06:47:15 PM

and worse of all, it's arch-enemy "AMERIKA" is taking this lucrative gas business away from Russia upon which their government is SO DEPENDENT!!!
while at the same time America's war industry is blowing the kakashka out of the Russian military
with the only consequence being that American defense companies are making record breaking production levels not seen since WWII
while Russia loses hundreds of billions of dollars in war costs through an "involuntary inventory reduction program"

America simply recycles their oldest weapons to Ukraine and replaces them with brand new freshly made ones
as the old weapons rain down upon poor Russian Gopnicks and kills them by the tens of thousands
Americans are safely home in bed
ahhh - the heavy price of victory...  what's Lockheed up to now, per share?


Cunning indeed, I think along with that and the US gaining from it's LNG industry moving into Europe I think they are also likely to gain in another way for their weapons industry. All the weapons being gifted to Ukraine, by the West but particularly by the US is likely to result in a potentially long term customer in the form of Ukraine should it win the war. Post war Ukraine will need to resupply its army and by that point and probably already it will be almost entirely dependant on western armaments.

So the US gifting Patriot missiles to Ukraine today will likely make them want to restock with Patriot missiles at the end of the war. Same with guns, ammunition, tanks, armoured personnel carriers, anti-tank launchers, infantry helmets & armour, artillery, etc, etc. The list is no doubt an extensive one but so we see that the West gifting Ukraine armaments is really like just one big armaments bazaar with many western countries touting for it's future trade. If Ukraine gets hooked on German Leopard Tanks it will put orders in for more if them and of course for parts supply, on anti-tank it may prefer to but NLAW's or maybe instead Javelins or possibly both.

So out go the old Soviet Kalashnikovs, T-72 tanks, artillery, etc and in are bought modern western weaponry. Pretty much all that Soviet gear will have been a spent force by the end of the war anyway. So Ukraine will be hooked on western weapons and will likely be indebted to western finance to pay for it all. After all it will want to keep it's fighting force in good shape after having fought so hard against the Russians to dissuade any further attacks.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 14, 2023, 11:28:52 AM
Cunning indeed, I think along with that and the US gaining from it's LNG industry moving into Europe I think they are also likely to gain in another way for their weapons industry. All the weapons being gifted to Ukraine, by the West but particularly by the US is likely to result in a potentially long term customer in the form of Ukraine should it win the war. Post war Ukraine will need to resupply its army and by that point and probably already it will be almost entirely dependant on western armaments.

So the US gifting Patriot missiles to Ukraine today will likely make them want to restock with Patriot missiles at the end of the war. Same with guns, ammunition, tanks, armoured personnel carriers, anti-tank launchers, infantry helmets & armour, artillery, etc, etc. The list is no doubt an extensive one but so we see that the West gifting Ukraine armaments is really like just one big armaments bazaar with many western countries touting for it's future trade. If Ukraine gets hooked on German Leopard Tanks it will put orders in for more if them and of course for parts supply, on anti-tank it may prefer to but NLAW's or maybe instead Javelins or possibly both.

So out go the old Soviet Kalashnikovs, T-72 tanks, artillery, etc and in are bought modern western weaponry. Pretty much all that Soviet gear will have been a spent force by the end of the war anyway. So Ukraine will be hooked on western weapons and will likely be indebted to western finance to pay for it all.

The US doesn't care about weapons sales to Ukraine.  It's a non-issue that nobody should spend any time looking at.
After the war, Ukraine is going to need minimal weaponry, and any they do need will be to counter threats from other nations. (Turkey?)  They will not need any meaningful amount because of Russia.

Quote
After all it will want to keep it's fighting force in good shape after having fought so hard against the Russians to dissuade any further attacks.

There will be no further wars with Russia after this is over. (unless Russia nukes them to smithereens, in which case a fighting force isn't going to make a difference.)
After this war, Russia's only option in the future will be first strikes with nuclear weapons if they go to war.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 14, 2023, 06:38:26 PM
Here's an interesting perspective on the Ukraine war.  Scroll past the intro to 5:27 to get into the Ukraine war part of the talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-NQ1xLfc_A

Peter doesn't go into Russian demographics in this presentation, but in other presentations he has done, he said that it was now or never for the Russians.  If the Russians waited any longer, they wouldn't have enough young people in the military.  Since the Soviet Union fell apart 30 years ago, Russians stopped having kids.  They are on the verge of a population implosion.  By 2070, Russia's population will be so low Russia will basically cease to exist.  (That's assuming they are able to regain Soviet borders before 1989.)  If Russia loses the war now, Russia will be gone in 20 years.  The Russian state knows they are dying.  The war in Ukraine is an attempt to be able to die on their own terms.  (Kidnapping all the Ukrainian kids and younger people is an attempt to rebuild the younger Russian demographics.)   
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2023, 02:47:10 PM
UK now sending these big mother f*ckers to Ukraine:

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3652802-uk-will-send-as90-selfpropelled-guns-to-ukraine.html

With that kind of gear on the way could it soon all be over in Ukraine for Putler?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 15, 2023, 03:09:17 PM
UK now sending these big mother f*ckers to Ukraine:

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3652802-uk-will-send-as90-selfpropelled-guns-to-ukraine.html

With that kind of gear on the way could it soon all be over in Ukraine for Putler?

You're joking, right?  The active front line is 850 kilometers.  30 howitzers and 14 tanks are a tiny drop in the bucket.  Ukraine wants 300 tanks, and 700 IFV's.
The US already gave Ukraine over 140 M777 howitzers.

The only reason the UK gave the 14 tanks is to convince Germany to allow Leopard tanks to be given to Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2023, 07:35:23 PM
You're joking, right?  The active front line is 850 kilometers.  30 howitzers and 14 tanks are a tiny drop in the bucket.  Ukraine wants 300 tanks, and 700 IFV's.
The US already gave Ukraine over 140 M777 howitzers.

The only reason the UK gave the 14 tanks is to convince Germany to allow Leopard tanks to be given to Ukraine.

Not any old tanks but good quality British tanks Bee Farmer, they'll be worth many times their number ;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 16, 2023, 04:17:51 AM
You're joking, right?  The active front line is 850 kilometers.  30 howitzers and 14 tanks are a tiny drop in the bucket.  Ukraine wants 300 tanks, and 700 IFV's.
The US already gave Ukraine over 140 M777 howitzers.

The only reason the UK gave the 14 tanks is to convince Germany to allow Leopard tanks to be given to Ukraine.


The only time a Challenger 2 Tank has been destroyed during operations was by another Challenger 2 Tank in a friendly fire incident at Basra in 2003,when the destroyed Tank had it's hatch open.


It has seen operational service in Bosnia & Herzegovina,Kosovo and Iraq.


The Russian Tank crews will be sh*tting themselves.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 16, 2023, 05:59:46 AM
Not any old tanks but good quality British tanks Bee Farmer, they'll be worth many times their number ;)

How many times their number? 

How many thousand tanks do the Russians have?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 16, 2023, 06:06:31 AM

The only time a Challenger 2 Tank has been destroyed during operations was by another Challenger 2 Tank in a friendly fire incident at Basra in 2003,when the destroyed Tank had it's hatch open.


It has seen operational service in Bosnia & Herzegovina,Kosovo and Iraq.


The Russian Tank crews will be sh*tting themselves.

Very few will be.  Why?  Because there are only 14.  Most Russian tank crews will never see a Challenger 2.  The front line is too long.  14 tanks can't be everywhere at once.  Keep in mind that Zaluzhny said he could defeat the Russians if he had 300 Western tanks, and 700 IFV's.

14 tanks is less than 5% of what a competent general said is needed.  You're delusional if you think that 14 tanks is going to win the war.  It's a great tank, yes.  But 14 is still less than 5% of what is needed.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2023, 07:28:45 AM
Very few will be.  Why?  Because there are only 14.  Most Russian tank crews will never see a Challenger 2.  The front line is too long.  14 tanks can't be everywhere at once.  Keep in mind that Zaluzhny said he could defeat the Russians if he had 300 Western tanks, and 700 IFV's.

14 tanks is less than 5% of what a competent general said is needed.  You're delusional if you think that 14 tanks is going to win the war.  It's a great tank, yes.  But 14 is still less than 5% of what is needed.

You're forgetting about the German Nazi Panzer tanks being sent also ;D

Them combined will no doubt be a formidable force on the battlefield.

To be honest it's probably more about Ukraine holding their own but who knows. My guess is that the west are happy to prolong this conflict as they know good things will likely come as a result of doing so. Knocking back the Russian Invasion now could lead to a bruised and agitated Russia that could just come back later harbouring grudges. If the west drip feed Ukraine modern western weaponry and prolong the conflict till the Russians are exhausted and bankrupt then they can get rid of Russia as a threat permanently.

Anyhow it looks like the Challenger tanks being sent will be facing off against this gear:

http://defence-blog.com/russian-army-receives-new-batch-of-t-90m-tanks/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 16, 2023, 10:31:30 AM
too bad the confederate air force lost their B-17 last month
they coulda given it to Ukraine along with the British tanks!!!

what better way to say
that we stand shoulder to shoulder, heart to heart with Ukraine


don't be worried Tovarische!!
the "Shaman" he who casts NO SHADOW
the architect of the Kerch Bridge Bombing
is at this VERY MOMENT
somewhere in the Russian Far East
FREEZING HIS JHOPPA OFF!!!! it's SO freaking COLD!!
but it'll be worth it!!!
oh, and.... ummmm, short Chinese oil and gas stocks
PAKA!!

Volshebnick of Vilnius
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 16, 2023, 10:50:28 AM


How many thousand tanks do the Russians have?


3118 less than they had on February 23rd. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 16, 2023, 11:06:02 AM
Very few will be.  Why?  Because there are only 14.  Most Russian tank crews will never see a Challenger 2.  The front line is too long.  14 tanks can't be everywhere at once.  Keep in mind that Zaluzhny said he could defeat the Russians if he had 300 Western tanks, and 700 IFV's.

14 tanks is less than 5% of what a competent general said is needed.  You're delusional if you think that 14 tanks is going to win the war.  It's a great tank, yes.  But 14 is still less than 5% of what is needed.


Ukraine has asked for 300 western tanks because they'd rather like to finish the war in less than a month.


I4 Challenger Tanks will take considerably longer,but the Russian Tank crews will still be sh*tting themselves,because they will never know what lurks around every corner waiting to obliterate them.


Just imagine every day the Russian Tank Commanders tell their crews to advance "Da Da " the crews say,until they get round their first corner and there it is facing them "Challenger 2 " they scream " Niet Niet "..then oblivion. >:D



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 16, 2023, 12:09:17 PM
Prigozhin will replace Putin next year
and purge 90% of the oligarchs
and claim THEY stabbed Putin in the back
and THIS is why Russia lost
Et Tu Navalny?

Bardakistan Airlines
Wagner - Flight of the Valkeries on golden shields to Valhalla

hard to believe, but next year, Russia is gonna suck EVEN more than this year...
depressing reality
the conduct of the presidential election this summer will tell you what's coming down the Ulitsa next year in Rossiya




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 16, 2023, 12:55:19 PM
How Russia will have declined as a nation having Prigozhin as their President


He spent nine years in Prison as a bitch.


The lowest of the low in Russian prison culture.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 16, 2023, 03:06:28 PM
My guess is that the west are happy to prolong this conflict as they know good things will likely come as a result of doing so.

The west is not doing this in the hopes of good things.  Good things aren't going to come.
The west is helping Ukraine because if they do not, VERY BAD things happen. 

Russia is trying to plug geographical gaps where they have been invaded before, so they can create a better defended border.  Ukraine is not the goal.  Ukraine is a stepping stone.

Russia wants the Bessarabian Gap in Romania.  It wants the Polish Gap.  It wants the Baltic countries so the Baltic Sea is their border.

That means there will be a direct fight with NATO.  NATO knows that Russia doesn't stand a chance in a conventional war.  The Russian army will get annhilated. That means Russia's only option is to start nuking European cities.

Quote
Knocking back the Russian Invasion now could lead to a bruised and agitated Russia that could just come back later harbouring grudges.

Russia CAN'T come back later.  It is now or never for Russia.  When the Soviet Union fell apart, Russians stopped having kids.  There aren't enough young people to have an army big enough in the future.  Why do you think they are drafting 50 year old guys now?  Or kidnapping Ukrainian kids?  (trying to rebuild their population)

Quote
If the west drip feed Ukraine modern western weaponry and prolong the conflict till the Russians are exhausted and bankrupt then they can get rid of Russia as a threat permanently.

Russia is dying off from old age.  By 2070 there won't be enough people to be a country.

Russia knows it is dying.  The question is if they go away now, or if they go away in 50 years.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 16, 2023, 03:07:44 PM
remember Yanukovich Pro Russian President of Ukraine, ousted after Maidan?
he went to prison for robbing and beating women, and was also part of the Donetsk Mafiya after prison...google it!



a good strategy is to send them Ukrainians a small amount of a VARIETY of weapons and see what the "kill rates" are for for each type
kill rate is weapon results plus training, plus deployment all summed together
divided by "cost per unit"
and convert this data into some kinda "cost justification" value for each category
I propse the "DeadRussiansPerDollar" (DRPD Index)

Once you create this sorted list of DRPD values, from then on if you want to maximize the DRPD, you spend as much money as you can on #1 of the list

The problem of course, is you can't put all of your "eggs in one basket" you can't just ONLY fire HI-MARS!!
so, instead, and this next part becomes surreal, you gotta use "linear programming"
a technique developed by Soviet Mathematics to optimize the conversion of raw materials to products
in essence, the math behind a "centralized planned economy"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming

this is how you optimize your military "budget"

weird, how ideas resonate with other similar nearby ideas of the same frequency
like a warehouse full of tuning forks.....
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Putin's plan
get the republican "FreeDumb Caucus" to cause America to default on it's debt, due to not expanding the debt ceiling
this will cause economic chaos throughout the world

George Santos is a Russian plant and not George Soros (see the difference?)
one of Rand Paul's relatives was just convicted for illegally funneling Russian money to Trump's campaign (google both of these)
google Oleg Deripask'as close political association with these and other kentucy politicins plus Trump lifting sanctions from him, and then read of Deripaska's connections to Paul Manafort

neurotic Amerika will hang itself
and Russians will create the tweet that talks them into it
so thinketh Putin

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on January 16, 2023, 05:09:41 PM
I highly doubt Prigozhin will replace Putin.  He is not part of that "inner circle". 


A long time ago, I wrote about Yanukovych.  I also said when he first appeared on the scene, that despite claiming to be a custodian, Medvedev was former KGB.  I also posted, contemporaneous with it occurring, that the Moscow apartment bombing, which lead to the second Chechen war, was an FSB plot, and not the work of Chechens. 


I believe the apartment bombing has now been linked to the Putin government.  I don't know if Medvedev's past has been confirmed.  You can be certain Yanukovych worked for the KGB.  Common criminals didn't have their records sealed, or get to travel abroad in Soviet times.


I asked my husband, who survived without arrest, despite being surrounded by informants, and a cat and mouse game with the KGB for about six years.  I asked him about Yanukovych's record.  His response (in part) -
 
Yanukovych allegedly served time for sexual assault in the 1960's.  The article of the Soviet criminal code for which an individual was convicted was emblazoned across his prison uniform.  I can guarantee you, Soviet criminals convicted of rape did not last in Soviet prisons.  In the late 1970's or early 1980's, the USSR started to put sex offenders in separate prisons, because they were killed, usually within a week of landing in a prison.  Nevertheless, according to a prosecutor looking into his record, he was convicted of robbery, not rape -
 
http://www.rg.ru/2005/07/13/yanukovich.html (http://www.rg.ru/2005/07/13/yanukovich.html)
 
Yanukovych went abroad in the 1970's, which means that his family records to before the Revolution were reviewed by the KGB, and he was deemed an "honourable member of the proletariat".  It was extremely unusual for Soviet citizens to travel to the West then, let alone someone convicted of a crime. 
 
ETA - Later, he told me "The USSR collapses.  A guy in Donetsk uses force to collect a fortune, buy a football team, and builds a sports arena.  He goes to a game, surrounded by bodyguards, and sits to watch a football match.  All of a sudden, he is blown up, together with hundreds of innocent spectators.  Shortly after that, Akhmetov steps into the vacuum.  And who happened to be at that match?

Obscure people will point to Yanukovych's criminal record and shout 'Tut tut', without looking at the whole picture.  Look at information that is being released today from the East (he means Eastern Ukraine).  It is not a coincidence that information from 2 decades ago is slowly making its way into the press now.

Everything points to Yanukovych being a former member of the KGB."
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 16, 2023, 06:22:56 PM
Prigozhin is a Tambov
some of Putin's friends from the old days are Tambovs, and remember where Putin's from...

but not all Putin's friends are Tambovs
some are Solntsevskaya Bratva down in Moscva
so it's gonna be a turf war folks
fight club for oligarch's
WINNERS TAKE ALL!!!

http://charter97.org/en/news/2022/12/27/529829/

what better way than to pick some surrogate named Tambov for a key post when it all "goes down"!!!  LOL
and this guy looks like a "pillar of integrity"
and I'm sure there's a good reason why Putin's chef is appointing a Tambov (literally) as leader of the Western Miltary District
maybe he's some high minded altruist, protecting the public's safety
then again, maybe NOT!!! LOL!!!

but it's looking like
it's gonna be Tambovs vrs Moscva blatnoys next year
the snake will grab it's own tail and start eating it
blatnoys ain't pridorki though
there will be BLOOD

PS
Dear State Department:
"n July 2022, the U.S. State Department offered a reward of up to $10 million for information about Prigozhin, the Internet Research Agency, and other entities involved in 2016 U.S. election interference.

what?
state department
WTF were you when I was in jail in Honduras back in '88, I got myself out- thanks for nothing!
I'll give you everything you want about Prigozhin, Internet Research Agency, etc
hopefully you all in "state" recognize that Prigozhin  has talent from "Blue Orchid"
ask your neighbors in "customs" and "secret service" about the blue orchid case
and who it was who tipped them off with a letter - go ahead ask them - I gave them a career making case
and I can do the same for you

 but immunity + 20 million, no measly 10, and I can go back to work for them, after this is all over, if I so choose
that's my deal, take it, or stay a grade 12 the rest of your career

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2023, 07:44:34 PM
The west is not doing this in the hopes of good things.  Good things aren't going to come.
The west is helping Ukraine because if they do not, VERY BAD things happen. 

Russia is trying to plug geographical gaps where they have been invaded before, so they can create a better defended border.  Ukraine is not the goal.  Ukraine is a stepping stone.

Russia wants the Bessarabian Gap in Romania.  It wants the Polish Gap.  It wants the Baltic countries so the Baltic Sea is their border.

That means there will be a direct fight with NATO.  NATO knows that Russia doesn't stand a chance in a conventional war.  The Russian army will get annhilated. That means Russia's only option is to start nuking European cities.

Russia CAN'T come back later.  It is now or never for Russia.  When the Soviet Union fell apart, Russians stopped having kids.  There aren't enough young people to have an army big enough in the future.  Why do you think they are drafting 50 year old guys now?  Or kidnapping Ukrainian kids?  (trying to rebuild their population)

Russia is dying off from old age.  By 2070 there won't be enough people to be a country.

Russia knows it is dying.  The question is if they go away now, or if they go away in 50 years.

You have just shown your IW falls somewhat below mine Bee Farmer ;)

Russia is not interested in geographical gaps at least not ones that it would contemplate using nukes to deal with. Russia does it want to use nukes against NATO countries as it knows NATO will have no other option but to return in kind.

Russia is hoping to pick off non-Nato countries as they are the easiest targets and even then they are struggling. If Ukraine fell it would then likely be Moldova then probably Georgia then probably the Stan's. That would likely satisfy Putler he would be getting on then so likely looking to retire knowing that he has pieced most of the Russian Empire/FSU back together again.

The West know that this domino effect is in play and want to stop it happening in Ukraine from Russia becoming an even bigger threat. As Krim has shown they have maneuvered the situation to their economic advantage. Now they have Russia in a position where they are stuck and exhausting themselves. The West aren't going to want to let Russia out of that strangle hold not by not giving Ukraine any more aid and not by giving Ukraine so much aid that they win against Russia before Russia is exhausted.

Another reason not to give Ukraine the means to finish Russia of now of course is that the West doesn't want to take the illusion of a possibility of a conventional military victory from Russia so soon. If it does then there is a greater possibility of Russia seeing it as themselves having to be forced to use unconventional means against Ukraine. Better instead to have Russia exhausted, bankrupt and on the verge of breaking up. That way they have Russia completely at their knees begging for an end to it all rather than a wounded beast seeking revenge.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 17, 2023, 06:43:20 AM
You have just shown your IW falls somewhat below mine Bee Farmer ;)

Russia is not interested in geographical gaps at least not ones that it would contemplate using nukes to deal with. Russia does it want to use nukes against NATO countries as it knows NATO will have no other option but to return in kind.

Russia is hoping to pick off non-Nato countries as they are the easiest targets and even then they are struggling. If Ukraine fell it would then likely be Moldova then probably Georgia then probably the Stan's. That would likely satisfy Putler he would be getting on then so likely looking to retire knowing that he has pieced most of the Russian Empire/FSU back together again.

The West know that this domino effect is in play and want to stop it happening in Ukraine from Russia becoming an even bigger threat. As Krim has shown they have maneuvered the situation to their economic advantage. Now they have Russia in a position where they are stuck and exhausting themselves. The West aren't going to want to let Russia out of that strangle hold not by not giving Ukraine any more aid and not by giving Ukraine so much aid that they win against Russia before Russia is exhausted.

Another reason not to give Ukraine the means to finish Russia of now of course is that the West doesn't want to take the illusion of a possibility of a conventional military victory from Russia so soon. If it does then there is a greater possibility of Russia seeing it as themselves having to be forced to use unconventional means against Ukraine. Better instead to have Russia exhausted, bankrupt and on the verge of breaking up. That way they have Russia completely at their knees begging for an end to it all rather than a wounded beast seeking revenge.

Explain this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDxJqgjalr0
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 17, 2023, 12:30:08 PM
Explain this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDxJqgjalr0

Is that where to you're getting your info from Bee Farmer some so called 'expert', you might as well listen to the resident forum expert here ;D

Most of Europe has an aging population issue, I would say made much worse by feminism in western Europe and less state support in the case of the FSU. Birth rate however goes up and down over time. I would say this guy is overcooking the issue to push out his theory.

Russia has no interest in attacking Poland. Poland is a part of NATO and the Russians know even if Ukraine falls their army would not be good enough to take on NATO forces. Beside that if Putin went to Nukes over Poland so would we. It would simply be a case that we kicked his ass out of Poland and an armistice would be signed. Putin is NOT going to go for NATO countries their are much easier prey to be had, Moldova, Georgia, the Stan's, etc.

Even if the argument were true about the low population issue Putin knows that he doesn't stand any hope of taking these 'gaps', strategic points, etc. His economy is going south now so is his military he won't be able to take on NATO it's not even on the cards. He bungled the Ukrainian invasion and his forces got shown up as inadequate against an army not equipped to NATO standards. His army would be destroyed like it was in a shooting gallery if it went up against NATO, the thought of the matter is laughable!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 17, 2023, 10:23:49 PM
Peter Zeihan, is a paid commercial analyst, who is able to make a living by "scraping the web" either with a program or with an intern, from sources like twitter,facebook etc and organizing them and summarizing them, he does this without EVER having to visit there

this is the "other thing" that YOU DON'T GET!
there is just no substitute for GOING THERE...
and BEING THERE
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 23, 2023, 10:00:41 AM
Looks like Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia,


The head of the European Council,Charles Michel  ,predicted that the next 2-3 weeks would be decisive in the war in Ukraine ,and that "they will largely determine our future " .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 23, 2023, 01:07:58 PM
maybe...

it depends...
Wagner has only a VERY short time left to DELIVER SOMETHING
otherwise
Putin will have the same decision to make that the Kaiser made in 1915 at Ypres
but because dumb ass Russians ALWAYS play the "Nuclear Threat" Card
that when they REALLY want to DO IT!
they can't just send some subltle signal
it has to be BIG

at the same time, there's no way to avoid telegraphing to the USA that things are gonna go this way...
USA will know what missile and from where it will be firing BEFORE it's even fired
whereever in Russia it's launched from will be TOAST xtra crispy

Putin needs to be convinced that escalating the war this way will COST HIM FAR MORE than he can imagine
NATO will have to do a major escalation as well

OTOH, Putin is likely to go all in and say look MFers
each of these freaking Satan Ballistic Missile has an EMP warhead bigger than the Tsar Bomba
and it'd only take just one to blow North America back to 1830....
and I'd show it on the silo launchpad
then...

Putin skazal, "you Westerners don't know about EMP Weapons, but we Russians DO"
but don't worry...
I just launched three that are about 10% that size
and they will be detonating over the territory of these so called Ukrainian Fascists in less than 30 seconds

when they do, every piece of Western Military technology will be worthless unless you can throw it at someone

then the drunken, horny soldiers will be turned loose, and after they slaughter the "so called Ukrainians"
let them have their women in usual Russian fashion...

this is what vicory looks like to Russian dumb asses now...

when you think about HOW CLOSE they came to usurping Ukraine's national destiny
by covertly interfering in Ukraine's elections....

if Russia coulda rolled the clock back to making Regions popular again in Ukraine (or a new fake party)
they could've pretty much just bribed their way to get 75% of what they wanted in Ukraine
but NO...
THEY wanted to be the ones to GET the bribes
and not PAY them....

and to do that you gotta grab the whole enchilada for yourself
and bitchslap the poor Mexican kid who was trying to sell it to you
pagarte? 
sal de aquí!!!

it's a tough world folks
where ONLY the tough thrive let alone survive

still the issue about "the offensive" from either side
the usual "late winter" timing issues weather influencing mobility, etc

we do KNOW that IF Russia launches an offensive, the USA will know exactly how many, where, when...
and Ukrainans will be freakin slaughtering them

Israel just allowed the transfer of the USA's "pre-positioned" inventory of military "consumables" like 155mm artillery shells from Israel
the kinds with proximity fuses
plus Israel will throw in some of their own
in view of what's happening in the middle-east, I wonder what changed Israel's mind
that they are willing to decrease their own security and allow this transfer to Ukraine






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 23, 2023, 08:30:27 PM
Looks like Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia,


The head of the European Council,Charles Michel  ,predicted that the next 2-3 weeks would be decisive in the war in Ukraine ,and that "they will largely determine our future " .

I doubt that, Germany is dragging its feet on allowing other countries license for them to send their Leopard Tanks to Ukraine. Sholtz & his government aren't wanting to get that involved. France is a long way from the action as I don't think to bothered about it all. The EU itself while seemingly somewhat sympathetic to Ukraine I personally think doesn't have the military leadership and has other issues. I don't think they are looking to put themselves against Russia directly.

That leaves NATO led mainly by the US. On that front I don't think they are looking to engage Russia in conflict, there's no military build up on a scale that would suggest that.

In general I think the view of the West is that they are happy for Russia to slog it out and exhaust themselves. In general the Russians are becoming weaker as a result of this war and the West stronger. Already it has shown that Russia who were once seen as powerful is not so much so. Going to war with them could play into their hands by justifying the need/use of chemical & mass destruction weapons. At the moment the West has Russia where they want them. Russia is unhappily locked into a war of its own choosing and losing out all they way, so no need to upset that now ;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 24, 2023, 12:26:11 AM
Looks like Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia,


The head of the European Council,Charles Michel  ,predicted that the next 2-3 weeks would be decisive in the war in Ukraine ,and that "they will largely determine our future " .

I interpreted the statement to mean that EU countries will bring forward substantial increases in assistance and arms.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 24, 2023, 01:22:05 AM
I doubt that, Germany is dragging its feet on allowing other countries license for them to send their Leopard Tanks to Ukraine. Sholtz & his government aren't wanting to get that involved.

Germany has a history and wishes to balance their actions accordingly, not acting unilaterally, which places its role as an aggressor state.  Poland asked for permission, and rather than approve, Germany stated they would not object.  A subtle but essential difference in their POV.  Poland is being more subtle by insisting on permission, so their stance might also be a veiled form of reticence with acting alone.

Germany has already committed to providing training with the Leopard and is surveying their inventory so they are prepared when the political situation is settled.  IMO they will act and provide tanks participating as part of a coalition.

The US throwing in Abrams tanks is not practical at this time due to its complexity, fuel, lengthy training, and high maintenance requirements, mainly regarding the turbine engine it uses. The US has already or will start training on the Abrams, which may come into play later.  There are still some classified aspects with the Abrams so that plays a role as well. Wouldn't want to lose one or have one break down near the front.  The standard firing range of both Leopard and Abrams is only around 3 miles, so they are effective only close to the front lines.

I'm confident UA will get Leopards when a coalition is present.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2023, 02:02:22 AM
Yesterday Ukraine's Foreign Minister was interviewed on the BBC News Hardtalk program. A big clanger he made was admitting that the level of economic support (at present) was not enough to support Ukraine's economy. Despite that he didn't agree that Ukraine's economy would collapse.

I personally think Ukraine can go on sometime with it's economy failing but that in the end it could become a real issue for it perhaps moreso than what is happening on the front line. Russia too is likely to suffer badly economically but is really a case of seeing she can gote distance there before economic collapse and break up. For all the military rhetoric I can see this war more likely ending up being concluded on an economic victory/defeat of either or both nations.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 24, 2023, 04:57:14 AM
I interpreted the statement to mean that EU countries will bring forward substantial increases in assistance and arms.


How would that determine our future ?


In any event, the much-wanted Leopard Tanks are still not being transferred to Ukraine,after weeks of being asked for them,which suggests the countries who have them are keeping them for a reason ?


Maybe these countries prefer to wait until the wolves are at the door,rather than trying to destroy them before they reach their doors.


Germany needs to wake up,because the Chechens have already stated that ,unless Putin says no,they won't stop until they reach Berlin.


I doubt German forces will be able to hold back the horde...or maybe they're relying on NATO ( the USA ) to save them.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 24, 2023, 06:32:38 AM
According to the ru media,out of the 50,000 + prisoners recruited by Prigozhin for PMC Wagner,only 10,000 are still fighting in Ukraine.


The rest were killed,wounded,missing,surrendered or deserted with weapons in their hands,including to Russia.


Sounds like anarchy in the Russian Fed is looming. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2023, 11:42:40 AM
Ukraine's Deputy Defence Minister has now been hauled up on corruption charges. I kind of expected this from the start of the war and I know said as much on here that there are no assurances that money given would necessarily get to where it was supposed to go. Perhaps it's at least something that Ukraine are trying to bring some of these people to book. It's a form of utmost stupidly I think to risk illegally taking when doing so may undermine Ukraine's war effort and lead to defeat. Then those idiots who did so may end up on the sharp end as a result of their own greed. I think unfortunately on that front Ukraine is as bad a Russia for endemic corruption. Zelensky has vowed to stamp it out and as lofty goal as it appears I hope he does though history tends to suggest he is up against it on that one.

At the moment it's looking like Ukraine is going to get more T-72's from countries around Europe than Leopard Tanks. Possibly Germany fears triggering a full scale war if giving the green light to their use while counties such as Poland who would give them probably feel hamstrung without a legal green light on the issue from Germany. News was that they approved the transfer of six tanks to Ukraine but I'm not sure if that was actually correct, possibly still no tanks approved by Germany for transfer/use.

That just leaves the 12 or so Challenger Tanks from the UK as the only Modern Tanks for Ukraine to use unless Germany changes it's stance. Russia is getting some new T-90's through so it could make it even Stevens, we'll see. Looks like a big tank battle could be in the offing this spring so we'll see how they perform.

One possible issue with the Challenger and possibly Leopard tanks are that they are a lot heavier than the Soviet tanks. That means that weather dependent they may be stuck to road/town/city usage.

Looks like by the time training/tanks arrival for both sides are complete will probably be early spring so things could heat up a fair bit then around late March/early April time perhaps.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 24, 2023, 12:05:56 PM
Yes,corruption and deceit has always been a huge issue in Ukraine,as it is in Russia.


They are very similar people really with many marriages between the two countries,which makes it astonishing the Russians decided to invade the country of their "brothers and sisters " and cause such death and destruction.


Anyway,it seems someone read my post of earlier today...again,because according to Reuters 23 minutes ago,Germany has now decided to send Leopard Tanks to Ukraine ,and will allow other countries such as Poland to do so.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on January 24, 2023, 12:16:52 PM
During our morning walk (in Mall because it is cold outside) wife and I talked about current corrupt officials in Ukraine.

She is quite upset about it, and even surprised, as she thought for sure everyone would be 'pulling together' during this war.

I told her I hoped Ukraine would suspend the embargo on capital punishment and execute anyone involved in such activity.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 24, 2023, 12:43:10 PM
back in the ole czarist days, Russians didn't want an income tax to fund the government, cuz the Romanov's woulda paid half the income taxes themselves, and the remainder of Russia's aristocracy most of the the rest...
clearly an oligarchy is not gonna wanna tax itself, and intead will try and figure out a way to extract it "from the masses"

serfs owned nothing, earned nothing...
only free laborers, crafstmen, etc did....
kinda hard to tax ZERO!!

so the Czar made alchohol a state monopoly, with draconian penalties for any would dare defy him, to clandestinely bootleg on the sly
he could hand out liquor production and retail licenses to his friends, who gave a % of the money to operate the state, and a percentage to the czar, and a percentage for themselves
a quaint Russian custom that persists to this day
a perpetual motion oligarchy

as dumb ass Russians, depressed about their miserable lives...
will go get sheeet-faced drunk
and end up funding the system that drove them to drink in the first place....

nothing's changed in Russia
they're still a buncha dumb-asses singing the "Volga River Boatman's Song"
as they drag ammo barges down the Volga

only thing dumber than a big mass of Russians, is a big mass of OLD Russians!  mix two parts stupidity and three of ignorance and shake briskly until it fizzes over!
nasdorovia tovarische!
ahhh BURP!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on January 24, 2023, 02:07:16 PM
Krim, how did you let your daughters marry into what you are describing re Russians?

What sort of grandchildren will be produced ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 24, 2023, 02:30:05 PM
dumb ass Russians are no better or worse than dumb ass Americans
both are VERY common in their respective habitats

I have MUCH more in common with SMART Russians who HATE Putin
than I do with dumb ass Americans who LOVE him for his anti-wokeness rhetoric

Floridians who sponsor Republican plans to raise the minimum  retirement age to age 70
to balance cutting corporate taxes by 50%
are proposing reducing social security spending by 23% by raising the MINIMUM age limit to 70, instead of 65 and then 67 past/current ages

however, these people feel their biggest enemies are drag queens and gay hair dressers
instead of the republians planning on robbing them
i.e. Dumb Asses...

and I sure as hell, wouldn't want to have grandchildren from this kind of "stock"
no thank you
my future grand children's fathers are some pretty serious Russian dewds
and I will likely have some decent "talent" to start trainin in a few years like I did with my daughters
if Russia/Ukraine reopens, I will have a pretty good mixed American/Russian crew who are ALL RELATED and READY TO MAKE oichen manoga kapusta $$$$$!!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2023, 03:32:32 PM
Krim, how did you let your daughters marry into what you are describing re Russians?

What sort of grandchildren will be produced ?

Haven't you heard, Krim's daughters husbands moonlight as computer geeks whilst being male models ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2023, 03:38:33 PM
my future grand children's fathers are some pretty serious Russian dewds
and I will likely have some decent "talent" to start trainin in a few years like I did with my daughters
if Russia/Ukraine reopens, I will have a pretty good mixed American/Russian crew who are ALL RELATED and READY TO MAKE oichen manoga kapusta $$$$$!!!!

Any room for a British dude in this mix :D

Seriously though Krim I would be interested to hear your views on whether a post war Ukraine will be less corrupt than it has been? A future place to do business perhaps?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 24, 2023, 03:57:01 PM
you're TOO late Trench...
and you'll be my age when my future grandchildren are legally datable, unless you're Prince Andrew

oldest with her super model husband, really, really poor quality pics...
and I also have another pair who are in Israel at the moment, and after graduation will be headed back to the USA in 6 more months...

so I went from being
1 American
then 1 captured a Ukrainian girl and brought her back to the USA as my captive
where she performed many forms of labor without pay (i.e. "white slavery)
then I gave my white slave, no choice but to bear her master 2 children, and those two went on to capture two more Russians, and bring them over like I did!

next my daughters will breed the two Russians
and make a whole batch of new American Russians jsut like them same way I did, but twice as many!!!

and they are ALL GONNA BE MINE!!!!!
AH-HAHAHA!!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Daveman on January 24, 2023, 04:13:04 PM
LOL!

Great looking couple. I think you should continue ue on breeding the Master Race.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 24, 2023, 05:14:02 PM
danke shein! danke shein!

the thing Bee Fahmer types don't get, if you're the type of dad that has a REAL TIGHT bond with your kids, there's NOTHING you value more than that, nothing, especially NOT money, the FEELING YOU GET from their love for you is WAY beyond anything money could ever POSSIBLY buy you...
I bet he never felt that way about his Dad, and it sure looks like there ain't gonna be a kid lookin at him like that in the future.

but,
OTOH...
you spendin some $$$ on your kids, ain't a bad idea, it has positive benefits for both parties

I have earned gratitude from MANY women in my life
by the simple process of merely being VERY generous with them...
and not requiring anything in return...

OTOH, I have when single, used that SAME approach the way a smart predator knows how to lure children with "presents"
and lure them into a trap about being a smart girl or a dumb girl

In Ukraine,
a smart girl, working as an executive assistant, for a fixed wage of under $1,000/month + clothing and travel allowance, will after first clothes and paycheck, get what I called...
THE BIG MONEY BURN!!

after that, you start turning up the intimacy dial, they have to come over to your residence and spend all day with you on work, and then you take them out for meals, or have meals brought in

from there, you move on to you taking a shower when you're there
then her doing the same

ideally cuz you're going to a bania, and yur gonna get nekked with her
which just makes "everything else" so much easier after that
otherwise that'll take you at LEAST another TWO WHOLE WEEKS to get to that same point (on average)
and the sexual tension just keeps building and building
until it "breaks"

this is the kinda life that a "man with a plan" can live in Ukraine!
I've lived it, and I met other Americans who lived it even better than I did, MUCH better!
with just freakin amazing women and making amazing $$$ at the same time...

at the end of the day when you hold her in your arms as you sleep
and you think about where you are, and the woman laying next to you, and the kinda crap you're gonna buy
you feel like you're on top of the freakin world!
ahhh - the folly of youth!

Trench, corruption is endemic in Ukraine, it will ALWAYS exist, WWII didn't make it better and neither will this war...
most forms of petty corruption in Ukraine are just hiden cost factors that you plug into your calculations just like other cost factors, and so don't really matter, just annoying...
usually, Ukrainian cost factors are SO LOW, that having a 20% corruption tax is no big deal
in USA you get extorted at tax time, in Ukraine the extortion is whenever you need some piece of paper from the government so you can go to the line to get the next piece of paper and so on!
standing in line for forms, is the third largest industry in Ukraine




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on January 24, 2023, 10:46:39 PM
Anyway,it seems someone read my post of earlier today...again,because according to Reuters 23 minutes ago,Germany has now decided to send Leopard Tanks to Ukraine ,and will allow other countries such as Poland to do so.

Indeed.  I heard Germany will make a public announcement regarding their decision today.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2023, 05:32:00 AM
During our morning walk (in Mall because it is cold outside) wife and I talked about current corrupt officials in Ukraine.

She is quite upset about it, and even surprised, as she thought for sure everyone would be 'pulling together' during this war.

I told her I hoped Ukraine would suspend the embargo on capital punishment and execute anyone involved in such activity.


I totally agree.


Any Ukrainians caught collaborating  with the enemy should be executed too imo.


I had wondered why so many Ukrainian troops at the front-line were making urgent requests on social media for basic equipment ,footwear and clothing...with all the monetary aid being pumped into Ukraine ...and i suspected corruption and thieving was rearing it's head again,even whilst the country was being invaded.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2023, 07:30:37 AM
Indeed.  I heard Germany will make a public announcement regarding their decision today.

Well it's on Germany has ok'd the transfer of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and apparently will be sending its own as well.

Looks like a big tanks battle is brewing! WWII style, Panzers Vs Soviet tanks with a few Churchill's etc thrown in as well ;D

They showed a few Leopard 2 tanks today on the BBC News and they looked a formidable force when advancing as a group.

Should help Ukraine to at least hold the line if not advance depending on how many they get and ammo for them. Russia has apparently strengthened it's forces and will continue to do so. If the Ukrainian forces become too strong with the modern western tanks the question is will Russia resort to chemical or EMP nukes, etc to reverse a losing situation?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2023, 07:36:02 AM
Trench, corruption is endemic in Ukraine, it will ALWAYS exist, WWII didn't make it better and neither will this war...
most forms of petty corruption in Ukraine are just hiden cost factors that you plug into your calculations just like other cost factors, and so don't really matter, just annoying...
usually, Ukrainian cost factors are SO LOW, that having a 20% corruption tax is no big deal
in USA you get extorted at tax time, in Ukraine the extortion is whenever you need some piece of paper from the government so you can go to the line to get the next piece of paper and so on!
standing in line for forms, is the third largest industry in Ukraine

Yeah think you're probably right Krim, possibly down to the FSU largely being a working class culture and with that some of the more unsavoury types always knocking around with the mentality that comes with that,. i.e out for what they can get.

So if for example a foreign guy wanted to open a nightclub how would that go down in a post war Ukraine?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 25, 2023, 08:24:15 AM
"So if for example a foreign guy wanted to open a nightclub how would that go down in a post war Ukraine?"


it wouldn't!  you have to have someone front for you, preferably your Ukrainian wife
this is a bad industry for someone like you to get into
cuz most of these "BARS" are money laundering operations
ordinary people don't own bars in Ukraine, the MOB does (to launder their cash, BARS are a popular choice)
and you'll be running up against these people

and you're British...

you're all really swell, nice guys, with the occasional "LORDHELPUS!!"
but nice guys like you get into trouble and then they have to depend on guys like me to get them out of it
you'd have to have "friends" like this

as well as pay for all kinds of Krisha, plus all other "real" costs...
any business that gives off a money odor will also be REGULARLY VISITED by the tax police
hoping you'll bribe them into coming less often
you will certianly ALWAYS have to give them free cases of booze + cash
or be audited for every bottle of beer sold, VAT, etc. etc

what ya wanna do, is buy something in Ukraine
yur gonna sell in the UK
this way, YOU control the money, and the market
not somebody in Ukraine
you find something valuable
fer sure you can BUY IT
and after due diligence, the person you buy it from will want the purchase to be kept quiet, just like you do
so all you really gotta worry about is how to pay for it and how to ship it discreetly to your door, avoiding all taxes, etc
and I ain't gonna tell ya my trade secrets holmes

this way operating inside a devastated economy ain't a disadvantage at all, but the opposite, an advantage
can you say, "Buyer's Market"
I was like a pig sniffing for truffles
my best finds ever all came through leads I received from a Moscow Book Store...
stunning "finds"
but I've seen a thousand roads in Russia/Ukraine that could provide a path to someone smart and nimble enuff
to put themselves at the right place at the right time and buy their fortune in Russia for a cheap price, and then sell it dearly in the Western Seller's market and do it tax free
and make with one transaction, what used to require 10 years of working for somone else who then expected you to hand over half of it as taxes

but I ain't gonna tell ya'll about ANY of this...
that's MY SECRET!
SHHHHHHHHHHH







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2023, 01:09:43 PM
"So if for example a foreign guy wanted to open a nightclub how would that go down in a post war Ukraine?"


it wouldn't!  you have to have someone front for you, preferably your Ukrainian wife
this is a bad industry for someone like you to get into
cuz most of these "BARS" are money laundering operations
ordinary people don't own bars in Ukraine, the MOB does (to launder their cash, BARS are a popular choice)
and you'll be running up against these people

and you're British...

you're all really swell, nice guys, with the occasional "LORDHELPUS!!"
but nice guys like you get into trouble and then they have to depend on guys like me to get them out of it
you'd have to have "friends" like this

as well as pay for all kinds of Krisha, plus all other "real" costs...
any business that gives off a money odor will also be REGULARLY VISITED by the tax police
hoping you'll bribe them into coming less often
you will certianly ALWAYS have to give them free cases of booze + cash
or be audited for every bottle of beer sold, VAT, etc. etc

Yeah I understand what you mean Krim. It's no doubt a Nightclub is no doubt the sort of business with bad stuff going down. I guess I was thinking more from the angle of getting the 'pooty tang' in as you call it. From that angle I imagine it could be a fun business to run.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2023, 01:33:23 PM
Yeah I understand what you mean Krim. It's no doubt a Nightclub is no doubt the sort of business with bad stuff going down. I guess I was thinking more from the angle of getting the 'pooty tang' in as you call it. From that angle I imagine it could be a fun business to run.


Start a post-war dating agency out there....then you get first crack at all the hotties currently working for the likes of Anastasia.  ;D


There are guys from the USA who were running the big socials out there,so another opportunity for you there..making money and meeting the local talent. ;)


Meanwhile i'll team-up with Krim and we can get involved in "dodgy " enterprises which i can already see as being available in post-war Ukraine. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 25, 2023, 01:41:23 PM
I met the owner of an exclusive gentleman's sex club in Amsterdam 6-7 yr ago
not the AWFUL ones in the red light district, although same rules, NO PICS!!!

but the pricey kind way down in the southern part of the city (no parking!!)

he cleared 500K month....
had something like 20+ NICE looking girls working for him
guess how he did the interviews?
and there was a new girl every other month...

500k/month
and all that pooty tang
in addition to the renovated warehouse he had his club in
he also owned a freakin amazing mansion
in the swankiest part of Amsterdam
with no apartments, only these HUGE estates on both sides ot the broad street
and perfectly quiet
compared to the raucous tourist areas with their narrow walkways

sheeeeeeetttttttt......
and making millions of euros/yr on top
I didn't wanna pry about his tax situation with this...
but I'm sure if there was some possibility to evade taxation
he could figure it out....

imagine being a smart dewd like this
I doubt very many of you could...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2023, 01:41:51 PM
Well it's on Germany has ok'd the transfer of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and apparently will be sending its own as well.

Looks like a big tanks battle is brewing! WWII style, Panzers Vs Soviet tanks with a few Churchill's etc thrown in as well ;D

They showed a few Leopard 2 tanks today on the BBC News and they looked a formidable force when advancing as a group.

Should help Ukraine to at least hold the line if not advance depending on how many they get and ammo for them. Russia has apparently strengthened it's forces and will continue to do so. If the Ukrainian forces become too strong with the modern western tanks the question is will Russia resort to chemical or EMP nukes, etc to reverse a losing situation?


More good news on the Tank front..the USA is sending 31 Abrams to Ukraine.


There'll be quite a Ukrainian tank armada building up. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 25, 2023, 01:52:04 PM
I met the owner of an exclusive gentleman's sex club in Amsterdam 6-7 yr ago
not the AWFUL ones in the red light district, although same rules, NO PICS!!!

but the pricey kind way down in the southern part of the city (no parking!!)

he cleared 500K month....
had something like 20+ NICE looking girls working for him
guess how he did the interviews?
and there was a new girl every other month...

500k/month
and all that pooty tang
in addition to the renovated warehouse he had his club in
he also owned a freakin amazing mansion
in the swankiest part of Amsterdam
with no apartments, only these HUGE estates on both sides ot the broad street
and perfectly quiet
compared to the raucous tourist areas with their narrow walkways

sheeeeeeetttttttt......
and making millions of euros/yr on top
I didn't wanna pry about his tax situation with this...
but I'm sure if there was some possibility to evade taxation
he could figure it out....

imagine being a smart dewd like this
I doubt very many of you could...


There was a young Dutch guy on tv over here about ten years ago..talking about running his sex webcam site in Amsterdam...the best paying customers were invited to his business premises every Christmas to meet the girls in person and get laid,


He was clearing over 20k a week in profits.


There's serious money in the sex business.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 25, 2023, 04:28:56 PM
I remember the good ‘ole chaterbate back in the mid 90s
when everybody had these 640x480 webcams in front of them, pointed downward
the image a bit “overexposed” so to speak...
clipping your head and face

then they took off all their clothes, and got their lotion out
and then logged into a chaterbate  queue of women who like to watch men "pleasure themselves"
and then a group of women log in and watch and rate your member and performance...

and while they are watching your live video you are watching a live audio/video of their reaction to it

good times!!!
and this was like almost 30 years ago!
ummm, a friend of mine, yeah, a good friend, actually, was addicted to this for a whole year when he lived in silicon valley, but he's OK now

Biden's sec of defense just went to Kyiv to tell Zelensky in person about Russia's upcoming offensive that the USA intelligence has fully mapped out...
USA is doing EVERYTHING it can to get sufficient ammo for Ukraine to make it a slaughter
as the lowest rungs of Russian society get peeled off
and are thrown into a deperate arena
against men even more desperate to survive
cuz behind them are their homes, communities, families...

only pre-positioned stockpile left untouched is Diego Garcia
but that's what backs our Pacific defense against China
we may have to give up the artillery shells there
cuz there's no other place to get 'em


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 27, 2023, 09:10:41 AM
Trump Russia

FBI Supervisor CharlesMcGonigal — was locked up this week for taking bribes from Oligarch
Oleg Deripaska —— WHILE INVESTIGATING TRUMP’S RUSSIA CONNECTION TO,  wait for it...
 PAUL MANAFORT AND OLEG DERIPASKA!
 
right after that came James Comey’s press release on Hilary's emails —
AT THE REQUEST OF MCGONIGAL !

and this is just the TIP of the iceberg of information that just surfaced this week!!!!

google how many people are currently facing charges over ILLEGALLY funneling RUSSIAN money to Trump's, campaign and inaugeration, including a close relative of Senator Rand Paul...
hmmmmm....

dumb phuques know nothing about this...
but instead, know EVERYTHING about the  Mexican Tranvestites that are crossin the border to be restroom peepers
and that this is their "REAL" enemy, cuz that's what Tucker Carlson told 'em!!!
who is ALSO a Putin Fan BOI!
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on January 27, 2023, 09:17:13 AM
Leopard 2 tanks

Leopard2's are 1979 tech, sure they look impressive but really, it's NATO cleaning out their
coat closet giving their old rain jackets to the poor, then congratulating themselves about
their generosity. At least they have a huge supply of spare parts on the continent and a
normal diesel engine.

The USA sending M1 Abrams (also 1979 tech) is far more problematic, because it uses a
gas turbine. While I am sure that the average Ukrainian tank mechanic is game to learn,
gas turbines are quite different than diesel engines. The maintenance, spare parts, and
even the fuel are quite different and would require huge training and supply chain
backlogs.

The Tandy/Radio Shack TRS 80 computer was the leading tech of the day in 1979.

(http://www.trs-80.com/images/hardware/computer-model4dxall.png)

Don't get me wrong, Europe cleaning out their old inventories of old tanks so they
can upgrade is a good thing. Russia will scream like they do when Putin's third
cousin's mistress hairdresser gets sanctioned from traveling. However, this is
not going to turn the tide of the war much more than sanctions on the hairdresser
will stop Russia from continuing the fight. I would advise being very skeptical of
stories in the press to the contrary.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 27, 2023, 09:50:08 AM
"Leopard2's are 1979 tech..."


so are F-15s
and like the F-15 the Leopard has had a lot of upgrade packages over the years
from the 2A1 to the 2A5
leopards are quite easy to drive and operate, all computer operated
and are quite comfortable with freakin air conditioning!!
when I was a kid, my dad showed me how to drive a Sherman
two clutch pedals, one for each tread, handheld throttle and you had to coordinate everything
so you are constantly working both arms and feet/legs while getting your head bumped up against the periscope you're peering into
and go do this day after day in freezing weather...
but Leopard's are about as hard to drive as an Audi with their hydromatic transmission

I like your TRS-80, that was a model III, or IV I believe, with a Z80 CPU....
I think that one came out a little AFTER 1979
in '79 you had the Model !, 4k ram, level I basic upgradable to something like 48k with level II Basic with an expansion box and floppy drives
and it woulda cost ya thousands of dollars, which were WAY more valuable back then compared to today!

tanks require more support personnel and equipment than almost anything else except aircraft
so this involves a LOT more than just the tanks themselves...
and will take a long while
and this is WHY you don't see Ukraine making many offensive moves NOW...
cuz they's waitin
and there's really only one use for these
and that's to cut Crimea from Russian access
I don't know if Ukraine can pull that off this year or next...
how this progresses
and Russia's presidential election,
are the 2 big things to watch this summer



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on January 27, 2023, 11:28:37 AM
and there's really only one use for these and that's to cut Crimea from Russian access

I doubt the tanks can get anywhere near the bridge at Kerch.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 27, 2023, 11:47:15 AM
"I doubt the tanks can get anywhere near the bridge at Kerch."

why would they need to do that?
when another bomb will do the trick?
and they don't even need to do that for a couple of more months yet
and you can bet the Ukrainians are gonna wait until just about the time Russia will reopen, when they'll blow it again
zapping the kerch bridge is what made the victory at Kherson possible

the tanks are needed to cut off crimea from the North
see crimea canal map below
look at that narrow land bridge to the north

cut the canal and highway and rail line to the north
blow up the bridge to the east
mine the harbors in the south
cut off the water
cut off the gas
cut off the electricity
cut the flow of food

it's Ukraine's version of the civil war'S Vicksburg, Mississippi campaign...

i'm already tryin to get my wife's family out
BUT...
THEY ARE ALL FOOKIN RUSSIAN PATRIOTS
AND DON'T WANNA "RUN"
I.E. they are poor uneducated Russians
in-laws ALREADY have THEIR CHILDREN OUT! I even got one, my very OWN MALCHICK!!!
jeez, after 2 daughters, it feels great having a son
cuz in-laws are rich, educated Russians...

what would Karl Marx have to say about this?
is Russia actually fighting a "class war"
with Rich Oligarchs in Russia vrs Poor Russians and Ukrainians
do poor Russians have more in common with poor Ukrainians
than with Rich Russian oligarchs?
that this is a war to sustain Russia's oligarchy
which was supposed to be an easy meal
but instead became an epic struggle
where the intended prey
has the predator by the throat instead


to answer that question, you must first ask
why did poor white farmers living in log cabins with dirt floors
end up sending their sons to die in a war to support rich slave owners, whose sons were exempt from service
to perpetuate an economic system that worked to suppress their wages (white wages in slave states 30% lower than non slave states)
huh?

why is you WHITE BOYZ SO FRAKIN' DUMB!!!!
ALL that I am tryin to do is "open your eyes"
but do you white boyz, whether Russian or American
wanna listen to a Texas Jew Boy?
NOPE!
ya sure don't!!!
so Yalky Palky!






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2023, 01:15:56 PM
what would Karl Marx have to say about this?
is Russia actually fighting a "class war"
with Rich Oligarchs in Russia vrs Poor Russians and Ukrainians
do poor Russians have more in common with poor Ukrainians
than with Rich Russian oligarchs?
that this is a war to sustain Russia's oligarchy
which was supposed to be an easy meal
but instead became an epic struggle
where the intended prey
has the predator by the throat instead

Seems like most FSU countries have ended up like one big social housing/council estate. We have social/council housing here in the UK and you have something similar in the US I believe. I'm not saying all social/council housing types are bad'uns some are decent nice people but there tends to be a culture there of trouble, people preying on people, each other, of being seen to be street wise, of seeing whether you can get one over on your fellow man (or woman) no matter how petty it is, and of stress and commotion often over trivialities and silly stuff.

The upper classes were knocked off in the FSU or deported/fled. This has its upsides but also means a lot of council estate culture (as above) tends to then hold sway and dominate too much. The building of mass social housing in the USSR kind of elevated it on a large scale. Here in the UK we had a smaller affair with council/social housing building, but the effects can often be seen with all too many of the residents/tenants. Unfortunately poor attitudes and hence behaviours (as above) with sometimes idle hands turning no good and a lit of whining and complaining about their lot with no wish to work to improve it, an expectation that others should serve their needs. Again not saying all are like that but it tends to be part of the culture of many. Think we are gradually trying to get away from all that here in the UK as it's no good for them or society.

So pretty sure it's not what Karl Marx had envisaged and from what I can see is how a lot of the FSU is. Last week was watching a program on Netflix on the great Putler. Looks like he pretty much just fell into the job by chance, little more than a lowly ex-KGB clerk of no great merit or agent skill. Happened just to be in the right place at the right time and inadvertently likely to his own surprise just suddenly plucked out of obscurity and plopped into the President's job probably bewildered how he came to be there himself. Looks like Yeltsin was just happy for anyone who fitted his views more than poor old Nemtsov who met a tragic end eventually as a result. Had Nemtsov kept his mouth shut over the Chechen war and wait for the old man Yeltsin's time to pass that anyone could see wasn't far off then his and Russia's future may have been a lot more rosier.

The whole Putin saga kind of reminds me of, 'Animal Farm' all over again where some lowly random animal just inadvertently finds himself just by chance to be running the farm and ends up inflicting misery on those below him. Basically a lot of bad luck in the chance happening of Putin ending up in the job and bringing back the bad old ways of how life used to be out there. Possibly otherwise it might have potentially all moved on for the better.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 27, 2023, 05:59:52 PM
Read Britain’s history…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre
whenever the ruling class has ABSOLUTE power
you have these kinds of consequences
regardless of the economic system

WWI and WWII broke the backs of the British aristocracy/oligarchy
allowing a middle class to emerge

this war might break Russia’s oligarchy
and their assets recaptured and returned to the people

but my point is, if you were ALL AWAKE, ya’ll wouldn’t end up as slaves in the first place
massa, he relies on the slaves not bein “WOKE”
he likes 'em poor and ignorant...



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 28, 2023, 06:17:35 PM
The McGonigal indictment question goes even beyond the issues of his leaking of the "pending" investigation of Hillary's emails before she was later exonerated by the FBI
(but exonerated  only AFTER she lost the election)

Remember Mike Flynn, saying "Lock her UP!
while ALSO getting paid at the same time by the VERY SAME Russians
Pardon ME?


In 2016, Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) was a former employee of a Russian oligarch (Deripaska), and owed money to that same Russian oligarch.  And the FBI special agent (McGonigal) who was charged with investigating the Trump campaign's Russian connections was secretly working (according to the indictment) for that very same Russian oligarch (Deripaska).
WTF?

so the Mueller report, which did document a LOT of unsusual suspicious activity between Trump/Russia
chose to NOT investigate "economic crimes" (Trump's favorite and most prolific type)
for some unspecified reason, when Russian money was at the CENTER of it all

and the Mueller investigation didn't have a CLUE, that the FBI Agent in charge of the "Russian Election Interference" investigation
was actually working for the VERY same Russians WHILE he was investigating them!

if you're a Republican
none of this FAKE RUSSIAN HOAX NEWS is important as the danger posed by "wokeness"

just what is the danger posed by being "woke" to Republicans?

that it might lead to a path, where mainstream white America will extend the hand of tolerance and compassion to EVERY disenfranchised voting group, based on race, religion, sexual orientation
and form a politcal block in direct opposition to Republican's White evangelical cultural warfare block, directed by the rich elites who own and control the Republican party
OTOH, the elite's religion and culture is ACTUALLY money and power and has nothing to do with these other topics
any more than Ukraine is a Nazi country bent on destroying Russia the great savior of Christain cultural values and so a "holy war" ensues
LOL!  AS IF...

and THIS is why the oligarchy attacks WOKENESS, through the media like Fox News and others that they BOUGHT AND PAID FOR
because wokeness is a threat to their power and money they derive from that

why do you think they work so hard TO DIVIDE US?
you think THEY care about any of your petty prejudices, one way or the other?
or do they care about how to keep extracting "RENT" from the economy
that ultimately is derived the labor of the poor and middle class
so tell me, what share of the economy is delegated to the poor and middle class
who do all the WORK, compared to the ruling elites, who do NONE

so, as a result,
ya'll end up just workin against yourselves instead of FOR
just like the thousands of dirt poor southerners in the civil war who gave their lives to maintain the RICH slave owner's economic position, which WAS ALWAYS in DIRECT opposition to their own...

WHY?
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YA'LL
why all the STOOPID?

can "one of you" explain it?
cuz I sure as hell can not...


PS
this town's a ghost town,
and couldn't be more dead than it currently is...

I recommend ya'll go to either VK or Telegram and freakin TROLL Russians as HARD AS YOU CAN
great FUN!!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on January 29, 2023, 12:43:32 PM
"Leopard2's are 1979 tech..."

Every point you make is correct. HOWEVER, when the German/Austrian/Dutch generals
give their sh!t  away, they will give their oldest sh!t away first. FIFO is what the
accountants call it. You

Also the Leopard 2 is competing against the old Russian tech T72's and T80's.
That's the Radio Shack TRS80 competing against the Honeywell 316 which ran
at the lightning speed of 2.5 MHz and could store up to 4096 words of memory.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Honeywell316.jpg)

The Leopard 2 should scare soldiers driving T72's (if they have brains). The T72's
can back up about as fast an old lady crossing the street with a walker on a snowy
day after getting drunk. I have never been in the military but ask a tank driver
how important it is to be able to back up. 

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 29, 2023, 05:54:11 PM
besides the lead FBI investigator of the Trump Russia Probe being PAID by the Same Russians he was investigating WHILE he was investigating them...
and who then leaked a fake inflammatory press release about Hillary's emails
before she was later cleared
(and all this is in the INDICTMENT, and not a libtard media show)

In order to "clear himself" Trump created a coverup plan
Trump also appointed Bill Barr who appointed John Durham who spent $6.5 million to uncover “misconduct” in the Trump-Russia probe using Russian Intel, but the only crimes Durham uncovered were crimes committed by Trump HIMSELF. And then they hid it? Did I get that right?

but all this is FINE, as long as it works AGAINT the woke libtards, right?
you know "libtards" people who "don't share your beliefs" about race, religion, sexuality, etc
and your puppet masters pull your strings to direct your RIGHTEOUS anger against people who are different from you
who just want the same things you take for granted

Liberty
Equality
Brotherhood

these things stand in the way of something ELSE
so massa he gonna get rid of it
and ya'll are massas slaves
and will do like you're told

never realizing you're digging your own grave



none of ya'll care about the RICH POWEFUL arseholes who sell YOU OUT, EVERY chance they get
and WHAT IT COSTS YOU

and are more worried about Mexican Transvestites hopping over the border to check out your junk in a restroom
cuz this pablum is being spoon fed to you little babies every day on Fox News and other media owned by the oligarchy

so in my view, ya'll deserve the coming judgment that's gonna be passed on you
just like it was with all them HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dirt poor rednecks
who died in the "War of Southern Plantation Owners" agin the industrialized North
and no, the blood sacrifice ya'll made to the Virus God to appease Trumpy Bear
is already gone
and MORE is needed

maybe all of you next time
a single tear flows down my cheek

meanwhile, I see Russia/Iran/China all converging in the future

spossiba Beel
for the retro-futuristic minicomputer...
I miss those days



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 30, 2023, 12:07:28 PM
The Manchurian Candidate was apparently more than just a movie.

A Russian agent (Paul Manafort) in the employ of Putin’s oligarchs (Oleg Deripaska & Konstantin Kilimnik) was paid millions BY THE RUSSIANS (and NOT Trump)  to run Trump’s campaign and was passing secret campaign information to Russian intelligence that they used to target specific groups of American voters via Facebook and Twitter, courtesey of Cambridge Analytica, to alter the outcome of the US presidential election to one MORE favorable to Russia

and when this treachery was referred to the FBI, the lead agent there was later, it turns out according to the latest INDICTMENT, WAS ALSO secretly working for Deripaska and Putin... and was responsible for using Hillary's Laptop emails right before the election to create a fake scandal, which would BE AMPLIFIED in the media by Trump's people, but of course, the invented scandal, had no real substance (anymore than Hunter Biden's laptop), and AFTER THE ELECTION, was completely cleared of any wrong doing, by the same FBI....  who could also NOT FIND any DIRECT COLLUSION between Trump & Russia.... cuz the REAL COLLUSION was DIRECTLY connected to THEM ALL ALONG!!!

You may remember Deripaska was also the oligarch who helped Mitch McConnell win the 2020 election by announcing he was going to build a $200 million “many-new-jobs” aluminum operation in Kentucky — that was then cancelled RIGHT AFTER after McConnell won reelection. McConnell helped get sanctions lifted, apparently so Derapaska could help his campaign, earning him the “Moscow Mitch” nickname.)
meanwhile, SOMEBODY directed the Kentucky Teacher's Retirement fund, to sink 20 million USD into SBER bank, which got wiped out by sanctions



and none of ya'll are MAD about this?
of COURSE NOT!!!
none of you even phuquing care....
or are even capable of seeing the TRUTH that's RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU

when people STOP CARING, this is how democracy and freedom die
and you all WILL DESERVE what's coming for you down the road...

me and my family are gonna be Los Latinos when that happens, and dumb phuques will curse the fact that they built a wall instead of a bridge

ya'll have a real nice day now, hasta lavista baby!




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 31, 2023, 04:40:57 PM
Ukraine still after joining the EU assuming it makes it out of this conflict:

http://www.ft.com/content/3275f83f-e765-4709-a5da-ec9b02fea237

Reconstruction cost is likely to be huge then of course the EU must be getting strapped for cash what with paying for the virus pandemic response plus the UK leaving the bloc.

I personally don't think that Ukraine has really thought through whether it it is really a good idea to join the EU. Instead of their sovereignty being seized by Russia they would be giving their sovereignty up to the EU. That I think is something they haven't realised yet, they are too focused on the perks and not giving up power over to Brussels.

For us there is the possibility that it could mess up Ukraine as a place for relationships. However the whole EU bloc could be much poorer in the future moreso if they are weighed down with the costs of doing up Ukraine and supporting a poor economy - another one they give money out to rather than receive money from.

Personally I'm still glad we are out of the EU, I think we have only benefitted since, means people can't legally just float into the country by themself.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on January 31, 2023, 08:03:59 PM
черный куб
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 01, 2023, 09:09:41 AM
Putin's standing in Russia,  has depended upon two premises: what happens on television is more important than what happens in reality
and what happens outside Russia should get all the focus, and not what happens inside Russia, (all illusionists understand how to distract attention/perception)

With mobilization, the distinction between inside/outside Russia has been broken;
with lost battles, the distinction between television and reality has been broken.  Reality is starting to matter a LOT more than television, and what's happening in Russia as a result of the war, will start to matter a LOT more than what's happening in Ukraine....

and this moy druzya means that Putin is starting to lose his grip over Russia.... and those who long to take over Putin's position, are already auditioning for the role....

primarily, the former hotdog salesman Yevgeny Prigozhin, an alumnus of the Russian prison system and of course Ramzan Kadyrov who is basking in the Chechen glory of murdering and raping (including Russians) civilians with the small number of Instagram fame seekers, while quietly exempting Chechen citizens from Russian mobilization (cuz they're HIS, to be used for his "future plans" and NOT Putin's)

it's no coincidence, that they each have built up a private army...
so at some point, the center of the WAR, will shift from Ukraine to Russia
after the FAILURE of the Ukrainian war

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 01, 2023, 12:55:18 PM
and this moy druzya means that Putin is starting to lose his grip over Russia.... and those who long to take over Putin's position, are already auditioning for the role....

primarily, the former hotdog salesman Yevgeny Prigozhin, an alumnus of the Russian prison system and of course Ramzan Kadyrov who is basking in the Chechen glory of murdering and raping (including Russians) civilians with the small number of Instagram fame seekers, while quietly exempting Chechen citizens from Russian mobilization (cuz they're HIS, to be used for his "future plans" and NOT Putin's)

it's no coincidence, that they each have built up a private army...
so at some point, the center of the WAR, will shift from Ukraine to Russia
after the FAILURE of the Ukrainian war

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

Ah surely the unthinkable, our beloved Putler moving on so soon! Think you could be right Krim depending on how the pieces fall, an easy interesting insight.

Possibly Sergei Shoigu or those quite high up in the Russian Army possibly in the mix as well maybe depending on what remains of the Russian Army after all of this. Aside from that possibly some regions of Russia attempting to break away.

Not sure on timing for this, depends on how ragged the Russian Army and economy becomes from all of this. Guessing could all happen after the pending Russian Spring offensive if all does not go well for them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on February 01, 2023, 01:23:46 PM
spossiba Beel
for the retro-futuristic minicomputer...
I miss those days

Pozhaluista, I don't miss the screens.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 02, 2023, 04:05:03 AM
Putin's standing in Russia,  has depended upon two premises: what happens on television is more important than what happens in reality
and what happens outside Russia should get all the focus, and not what happens inside Russia, (all illusionists understand how to distract attention/perception)

With mobilization, the distinction between inside/outside Russia has been broken;
with lost battles, the distinction between television and reality has been broken.  Reality is starting to matter a LOT more than television, and what's happening in Russia as a result of the war, will start to matter a LOT more than what's happening in Ukraine....

and this moy druzya means that Putin is starting to lose his grip over Russia.... and those who long to take over Putin's position, are already auditioning for the role....

primarily, the former hotdog salesman Yevgeny Prigozhin, an alumnus of the Russian prison system and of course Ramzan Kadyrov who is basking in the Chechen glory of murdering and raping (including Russians) civilians with the small number of Instagram fame seekers, while quietly exempting Chechen citizens from Russian mobilization (cuz they're HIS, to be used for his "future plans" and NOT Putin's)

it's no coincidence, that they each have built up a private army...
so at some point, the center of the WAR, will shift from Ukraine to Russia
after the FAILURE of the Ukrainian war

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN


It would be truly wonderful seeing Putler and what's left of his military ,former prison bitch Prigozhin with his terrorist Wagner PMC,and Kadyrov and his deviant Chechens massacring each other and destroying Russia in the process.


NATO and the west can sit back and enjoy the show. :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 02, 2023, 03:33:27 PM
sometimes "cascading failures" become like avalanches
with nothing able to stop it
until it buries all in its path
and this will make the folks in the neighboring valleys quite nervous
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 04, 2023, 08:25:18 AM
Apparently it looks like Russia is in the beginning stages of starting it's Spring Offensive already:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1729567/Ukraine-live-war-Russia-major-spring-offensive-active-phase-donbas-Kramatorsk/amp

It's reckoned that instead of somewhere towards 300,000 troops amassing for the offensive that there looks to be nearer 500,000 troops amassing for the offensive. Apart from Russian troops moving to the front in the Donbass we could be looking at another build up of troops along Ukraine's northern border just like last year but way bigger this time! Likely pushing in from all sides this time. My guess is that it may all start in motion again around the anniversary of last year's invasion if not before.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 05, 2023, 07:48:16 AM
Apparently it looks like Russia is in the beginning stages of starting it's Spring Offensive already:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1729567/Ukraine-live-war-Russia-major-spring-offensive-active-phase-donbas-Kramatorsk/amp (http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1729567/Ukraine-live-war-Russia-major-spring-offensive-active-phase-donbas-Kramatorsk/amp)

It's reckoned that instead of somewhere towards 300,000 troops amassing for the offensive that there looks to be nearer 500,000 troops amassing for the offensive. Apart from Russian troops moving to the front in the Donbass we could be looking at another build up of troops along Ukraine's northern border just like last year but way bigger this time! Likely pushing in from all sides this time. My guess is that it may all start in motion again around the anniversary of last year's invasion if not before.


Not one of the best sources out there...the Express does tend to exaggerate everything ,whether it's pro Russian or pro Ukrainian news.


But anyway it will be interesting to see how many of the Express claimed 300k to 500k will actually fight.


In todays news 600 mobilized Russian troops who refused to participate in hostilities were returned from the Luhansk region to the territory of Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2023, 01:16:21 PM
le Russ chef
goes to the worst of the worst prisons in Russia
and recruits the worst of the worst prisoners

if they survive 6 months on the front line...
they collect $10,000 CASH MONEY in St Pete's AND
keep WHATEVER THEY STEAL

AND can do to Ukrainian women and children (or men, if that's your thing) WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!
AND have their criminal history COMPLETELY EXPUNGED
AND automatically get a $2500/month job in his private army
who WOULDN'T take that deal!!!!

this is HOW he vettes his troops for the private army he surrounds himself with!
he gets ONLY THE BEST through the Darwinian Recruitment Agency

and all paid with Rubley printed by Putin JUST FOR HIM
and those presses run 24/7

there are now about half a dozen large private armies in Russia, some like Prigozhin's are aligned with a major mafiya family, like Prigozhin is with the Tambov's
and the Chechen mafiya in south eastern Moscva is with kadyrov

the memory of Stalingrad
Putin's upcoming vision of glory
Prigozhin chipping away
until Putin brings forth the sledgehammer
and brings it down

there will be just a short time between the end of the offensive
and the start of the early summer rains
which will make mechanized movement tempoarily impossible

but the distances Ukraine has to cross to sever Crimea
are short
if Ukraine doesn't suffer massive losses during Russia's offensive, but Russia DOES
then there is a short window of time it can take advantage of this

if Crimea is completely severed
after the failure of the offensive....
while the Russian economy continues to nosedive

will cast the darkest shade possible
over Putin's victorious glorious re-election parade
which is about 13 months from now

that date will be an inflection point....
what's that, up in the road ahead?
could it be The Twilight Zone, is that what Z really stands for?



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 06, 2023, 05:29:05 AM

Not one of the best sources out there...the Express does tend to exaggerate everything ,whether it's pro Russian or pro Ukrainian news.


But anyway it will be interesting to see how many of the Express claimed 300k to 500k will actually fight.


In todays news 600 mobilized Russian troops who refused to participate in hostilities were returned from the Luhansk region to the territory of Russia.

Ok I admit I chose the most headline grabbing news story out there. It was either that or the unexciting Chinese weather balloon one ;D

Potentially though Ukraine could have quite a fight on its hands in the days and weeks to come, moreso than before. The troop numbers will be at least twice maybe three times the size of the initial invasion force. My guess is that those Ukrainians that have done a runner and gone abroad are not going to be thought kindly of by most of those back home so are probably keeping a low profile with many of them not letting it be known they have abandoned their country/countrymen to their fate whatever that may be. In fairness to Bee Farmer as he pointed out they are going to find it difficult to return if Ukraine gets through this if it becomes known they had fled and left the rest of them facing all the misery that comes with defending one's country.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 06, 2023, 11:57:18 AM
More info on the Russian mobilization/conscription:

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3666304-ukrainian-intelligence-predicts-russian-offensive-efforts-in-donetsk-luhansk-zaporizhia-regions.html

As it states it seems logical that the Russians would defend in Kherson region where they hold a strong defensive position the other side of the river while avoiding attacking there as the river also makes it harder to cross for themselves as well. Attacking from Donetsk & Zaporizhia makes sense for Russia as the open terrain means easier advancement there. I would also expect an attack from the north from Belarus probably down towards Kyiv again, Kharkiv but also down towards Lviv. Possibly attacks out of Transnistria if only to secure the border area around there also. I think an attack down towards Lviv is probably almost definitely on the cards this time what with the larger troop numbers at Russia's disposal.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 06, 2023, 05:29:17 PM
Another interesting article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html

Makes a good point in that Russia with a much larger population can take greater loss of troop numbers than Ukraine, in theory.

Ukrainian troops have been training on Challenger 2 tanks in the UK this past week so along with Leopard 2 tanks we'll see how that goes down in the fighting. Looks like a real battle royale is brewing and things look likely to really kick off even bigger than last year in the next few weeks or so.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 07, 2023, 05:06:10 AM
Another interesting article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html)

Makes a good point in that Russia with a much larger population can take greater loss of troop numbers than Ukraine, in theory.

Ukrainian troops have been training on Challenger 2 tanks in the UK this past week so along with Leopard 2 tanks we'll see how that goes down in the fighting. Looks like a real battle royale is brewing and things look likely to really kick off even bigger than last year in the next few weeks or so.


The problem Russia has is that much of it's male population is in ill health and unfit to fight...hence why they had to increase their mobilization age to 60.


Secondary school children  ( 12 and up ) and students in Russia are now being forced to learn how to fight and learning how to use assault rifles.


The way things are going they'll be sending Russian women and children into Ukraine to fight soon.


Putler may well achieve his dream of a genocide in Ukraine..only it'll be his own people becoming extinct.


Current death toll of the orcs in Ukraine stands at 133,190..and reports coming out of the hospitals in the orc occupied areas of the Donbas region is that they're full of wounded,crippled and dying orcs.....happy days  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 07, 2023, 12:56:07 PM
an american running dog spy satellite collects FPV video in ultra-high detail with computer enhanced imagery....
it sends the encrypted data to fort meade, maryland
there, an AI program counts trucks driving down a road, guns parked in a field, even individual soldiers, and tracks them between orbits....
and reduces it to a big XLS spreadsheet with Eng/Ukr translations
and does this every 90 min 24/7
and in addition...
a joint US/Ukr task force of the MOST SR military planners
provide an overview of their interpretation
and have been "gaming" this thing to death....

Ukraine has RESEREVES... people and ammo...
the ammo they recently captured from overrunning the Russians was ENORMOUS
and has already been redistributed, just THAT AMMO by itself will inflict huge losses
I would imagine that in the first two weeks of the offensive, Russia will lose maybe as many as 50,000 KIA (equivalent to vietnam war for USA)
Russia will not meausure victory or defeat by this number
but will only measure it in territory won or lost
and this is how the world will see the truth about Russia's true motives
next year, poor uneducated Russians will start asking the same questions the rich, educated ones did last year...
as ALL LEVELS of Russian society FEEL THE PAIN!!!

* and remember, dear gentle readers, that since 2014, when Putin occupied Crimea, the Russian GDP has declined by 10% and that by next year's election, could be 15%
a 15% decrease, instead of a 50% to 70& increase?  average oligarch's net worth has dropped 50%...

by the end of next year, all the cracks in Russia will start to get bigger and bigger and bigger
and things will break down, all kinds of things...

in Russia, even entropy isn't as good as it used to be...



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 07, 2023, 03:52:11 PM
Doesn’t Russia have the same satellite imagery?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 07, 2023, 04:25:34 PM

The way things are going they'll be sending Russian women and children into Ukraine to fight soon.

Women prison inmates have already been recruited to soldier training sites.

http://english.nv.ua/nation/russians-recruiting-female-convicts-in-occupied-donbas-to-fight-against-ukraine-50302223.html

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 07, 2023, 05:15:57 PM
"Doesn’t Russia have the same satellite imagery?"

no, neither does China....
the usa has no peer in this field, an ENORMOUS lead...
but Russia does have some version of this, just no where near as good as this...
gives Ukr a HUGE advantage, and they will optimize the damage
because sometimes...
you gotta be cruel, to be kind...

criminalize dissent
put dissenters in jail
recruit soldiers from jail
this solves both the dissenter and military recruitment problems
"win-win"
paid for with freshly printed rubles minus "managment fees"
you could't get it any cheaper than this
I mean "cost effective"

sure go ahead and hyperinflate in the long term
to survive in the short term
i'm sure it'll all work out fine
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 08, 2023, 07:30:20 AM
Brilliant speech from President Zelensky in  London today.


He made a point of thanking Boris Johnson for galvanizing all the countries that are now helping Ukraine.


Mentioned how he sat in Winston Churchills chair on a previous visit to London and felt something.


He said he's looking forward to meeting with King Charles at Buckingham Palace,and said "King Charles was an Air Force   pilot and in our country our Air Force pilots are our kings "...invoking the Battle of Britain spirit.


The UK is now training Ukrainian pilots to fly western fighter jets and also our Royal Marines are now training Ukrainians.


Update : Looks like Zelensky's speech had the desired effect as Downing Street confirms PM Sunak has now asked Defence Minister Ben Wallace what fighter jets we can give to Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 08, 2023, 09:15:05 AM
Ukraine has asked for another 24,000 men to join-up and fight against the orcs.


9,000 volunteered within a week .


The really interesting thing is that whilst the orcs need another 250k ( 300k - 500k according to the Express) men to be sent into Ukraine,Ukraine only needs another 24k men to meet them.


This clearly suggests that Ukraine  is losing just 10% of the military that the orcs are.


Death toll for the orcs in Ukraine since 24th February last year now stands at 134,100  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2023, 09:34:43 AM
Brilliant speech from President Zelensky in  London today.


He made a point of thanking Boris Johnson for galvanizing all the countries that are now helping Ukraine.


Mentioned how he sat in Winston Churchills chair on a previous visit to London and felt something.


He said he's looking forward to meeting with King Charles at Buckingham Palace,and said "King Charles was an Air Force   pilot and in our country our Air Force pilots are our kings "...invoking the Battle of Britain spirit.


The UK is now training Ukrainian pilots to fly western fighter jets and also our Royal Marines are now training Ukrainians.


Update : Looks like Zelensky's speech had the desired effect as Downing Street confirms PM Sunak has now asked Defence Minister Ben Wallace what fighter jets we can give to Ukraine.

The UK has certainly been at the forefront of helping Ukraine more so than the EU. We've been giving them tanks while EU nations have been procrastinating and squabbling over it.

It certainly makes sense for us to aid Ukraine all we canm After all they are really doing the fight for us. If we didn't aid them Putler would come back a bigger threat following conquering Ukraine and we all know how that one plays out from Hitler. Better for Ukraine to have the fight now while Russia are weaker than us have the fight tommorow when Russia is stronger. Results in a lot year suffering and war in the long run. I thought Zelensky made a fine speech today in London. I personally think he looks a better fit with the UK than with the EU, more comfortable and more in common.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2023, 09:49:02 AM
Ukraine has asked for another 24,000 men to join-up and fight against the orcs.


9,000 volunteered within a week .


The really interesting thing is that whilst the orcs need another 250k ( 300k - 500k according to the Express) men to be sent into Ukraine,Ukraine only needs another 24k men to meet them.


This clearly suggests that Ukraine  is losing just 10% of the military that the orcs are.


Death toll for the orcs in Ukraine since 24th February last year now stands at 134,100  >:D

Interesting figures. Guess Ukraine would rather have volunteers than conscripts though of course they can call them up at any time. Possibly the lower numbers could be down to Ukraine's ability to train, arm, feed & move the men. Ukraine is playing a different game than Russia, they'll almost certainly be on the defensive in the coming months as Russia throws the weight of a hugh army of men with largely basic training at them. That's is still not likely to be an easy fight for Ukraine to win. They will be relying on better trained but fewer soldiers than Russia. Ukraine is getting some much needed modern weaponry from the west but Russia is getting some new stuff too, not a lot of it but it'll be there.

So Ukraine has to avoid giving ground too quickly but chew through up to potentially 300,000-500,000 men to get to Russia is exhausted then counterattack possibly around late Summertime again or the following year. All the while there is the distinct possibility that Russia will continue to conscript men on a flowing basis to try to exhaust Ukraine.

So I think Ukraine could have a tough road ahead of it as it likely faces a continual relentless barrage of Russian forces. There is the potential for the west/Ukraine to underestimate the new Russian offensive about to open up and for Russia to break through in one or more places. It could well be that we might be underestimating the amount of tanks and other weaponry Ukraine will need to hold them back.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 08, 2023, 11:01:56 AM
both sides will run out of ammo before they run out of soldiers...
the side that runs out last is declared the winner - check the rule book!!
the us/israeli stockpile is already in Ukr somewhere with about a half dozen other stockpiles
one side has all the artillery shells europe and north america can scrape together
and the other has Russia/Iran/North Korea...
you're REALLY not sure of the outcome?
LOL!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 09, 2023, 01:02:18 AM
both sides will run out of ammo before they run out of soldiers...
the side that runs out last is declared the winner - check the rule book!!
the us/israeli stockpile is already in Ukr somewhere with about a half dozen other stockpiles
one side has all the artillery shells europe and north america can scrape together
and the other has Russia/Iran/North Korea...
you're REALLY not sure of the outcome?
LOL!!

India & China have remained relatively neutral so far but in future who knows? China might see a vested interest in supplying Russia at a price as it continues to eye Taiwan. Other than that the Russian foreign minister is in Mali at the moment so who knows maybe they have a big secret stash  ;D

In other news it looks like Europe is offloading their old Leopard 1 tanks and sending them to Ukraine. They can send them in larger numbers than the more modern Leopard two tanks as they don't want them and so are a cheaper option. Ukraine still likely to get some Leopard 2 tanks as well but smaller numbers. The Leopard 1's should make up for lost Ukrainian Soviet era tanks. As said earlier though a case of the west offloading some of their old stock onto Ukraine so a cheap expense move there:

http://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/02/07/european-coalition-to-give-refurbished-leopard-1-tanks-to-ukraine/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 09, 2023, 07:45:17 AM
Two weeks ago the vatniks were yelling "Bakhmut is only the beginning.Remember the name Vuhledar ! The grave of the Ukrainian Army ! "


Well i've just seen astonishing footage of the result of that Russian orc offensive....31 destroyed orc Tanks and AFV's. >:D


135,010 dead orcs


3,255 destroyed orc Tanks.


6,468 destroyed orc AFV's


All in Ukraine since 24th Feb last year.


Wagner PMC is now no longer recruiting prisoners from Russian prisons...they're running out of money after sanctions against them .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 09, 2023, 09:14:01 AM
The orcs are now having to use military equipment from WW2.


Video has emerged of the DPR having to use a WW2 -era 152 mm D-1 towed artillery piece,which is in service with the 1st Army Corps.


I guess the orcs having 2,224 artillery pieces destroyed in Ukraine since Feb 24th last year has a lot to do with that. ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 09, 2023, 09:34:41 AM
Looks like the start of the orc offensive in eastern Ukraine.isn't going well for them.


As well as the orc massacre at Vuhledar,there is now video of an orc assault in the Marilinka area.
They attacked positions of the 79th Brigade,but after they came under fire from Mortars,automatic grenade launchers and machine guns they retreated..leaving their weapons and wounded behind. >:D


It wasn't an organized retreat either....it was a disorderly drop everything and let's get the fark out of here , running as fast as we can before our underpants start to smell too much, rout.


Reports are that this scenario is happening right across the front-line.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 10, 2023, 08:59:29 AM
The orc battle group that got smashed at Vuhledar painted their armoured vehicles,Tanks etc with the name of "Drakula "..probably intending to feast on the blood of Ukrainian people.


There is a video of them cockily waving to a passing car as they were preparing to go into battle.


31 destroyed Tanks etc and 400 dead "Drakula " orcs later they ain't so cocky now...the only blood they feasted on was their own as they choked on it. >:D .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 10, 2023, 09:20:25 AM
Vladlen Tatarsky writes that in his area of responsibility Russian mobiks refused to go into battle.Worries him enough to announce it publicly.


"Messages from the front :the mobilised from one region of the Russian Federation ( i don't want to name it ,i'm ashamed for my almost-countrymen ) refuse to go into battle ".











Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 10, 2023, 10:12:26 AM
remember the "Zulu" movie from the 60's?
the one with her majesty's army vrs zulus at Roork's Rift(sp?)
the first wave, is just to test the enemies firepower....
next waves will be to look for "weak spots"
when one is found, that's when the "big tsunami" starts....
right now the crest is off in the distance...building....

4 months until rainy season in Ukraine....
13 months until Russian presidential election

timing is EVERYTHING

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 11, 2023, 08:22:14 PM
in order to save Ukraine, they had to destroy Ukraine
and then in order to save Russia
they had to destroy Russia as well

Hydra Darknet has been reconstituted as OMG! OMG!
the revolution will be anonymous and encrypted and merged into the underground economy the dark web to the black market...
anonymous networks
are also
autonomous networks

yes, you can use it to sell Delta 8 vape pens to millenials in moscva and clear 100 BTC/month while sitting in another country profiling 'graffitniki" who spray paint your Q-codes all over moscva...
but that's only the beginning...

so what's giving the Russians a major ass-whoopin?
it's a WEIRD BEAST!!!!

it has American eyes and Ukrainian teeth
and a left/right brain 'cross the sea
that knocks the bear on it's ass in one punch

seriously, the accuracy of this stuff is amazing
the Russian probing assaults were all blown to smithereens
and when you look at the aerial photos from after
almost no craters, every round was a direct hit
like they were waiting for them in an ambush
EVERY single time

Russians still got about 2 weeks or so to the "holiday"  le anniversarie + 4 day holiday that would be the IDEAL time to display GREAT Russian victory...
they may do a few more probes, but if they don't find a week spot, cuz Ukraine ALWAYS knows where and when they're gonna attack thanks to America's eyes
then they got a choice...

either attack EVERYWHERE at ONCE with EVERYTHING
or...
dig in for a multi-year trench war
or...
risk escalation with an EMP bomb

we'll know which one in a few more weeks




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 12, 2023, 10:56:53 AM
A video just been released of more mobiks refusing to fight in Ukraine.


They say they were in Territorial Defence in Kaliningrad,and they were sent to be under the control of the DPR in Ukraine...and then told they were now assault troops.


They received no training to be shock troops,have young and old among them and some are receiving hospital treatment for diseases.


They've had casualties already,no orc Commanders are coming anywhere near the front,and they've now had a gutful .


Sounds like Putler's army is starting to fall apart.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 12, 2023, 04:55:50 PM
remember the "Zulu" movie from the 60's?
the one with her majesty's army vrs zulus at Roork's Rift(sp?)
the first wave, is just to test the enemies firepower....
next waves will be to look for "weak spots"
when one is found, that's when the "big tsunami" starts....
right now the crest is off in the distance...building....

4 months until rainy season in Ukraine....
13 months until Russian presidential election

timing is EVERYTHING

The best bit of the 'Zulu' film is the volley fire from the British line. They got it off a treat at Rorke's Drift to such an exceptional standard that it was like a machine gun of constant fire without pause. First line fires, reloads as second line fires, second line fires, reloads as third line fire, then back to first line fully reloaded and firing again.

Piles of dead Zulus stacked up like a mountain as a result.

Rorke's Drift have the British a good defensive position inside a stone wall encampment but of course were surrounded but that would have been the case anyway with a far smaller force.

The defense of Rorke's Drift helped reverse the early military defeat of the British in a much larger battle, as shown in the earlier film, 'Zulu Dawn'. In that battle it is believed that the Zulus were high on drugs so much so that again they would just charge into the enemy gunfire without thought for their lives. Problem was the British were caught out in the open there and so were overwhelmed by the Zulu numbers that kept coming like a wave.

So a parallel there perhaps with present day with Wagner troops possibly been given drugs to charge into enemy gunfire and the big wave of Russian troops.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 12, 2023, 05:02:10 PM
A video just been released of more mobiks refusing to fight in Ukraine.


They say they were in Territorial Defence in Kaliningrad,and they were sent to be under the control of the DPR in Ukraine...and then told they were now assault troops.


They received no training to be shock troops,have young and old among them and some are receiving hospital treatment for diseases.


They've had casualties already,no orc Commanders are coming anywhere near the front,and they've now had a gutful .


Sounds like Putler's army is starting to fall apart.

Kaliningrad would be a good territory to revolt. It's cut off from the rest of Russia so would be almost impossible to get troops in to take it back. It's naval forces could be taken over potentially to defend the sea access. Trade wise it's got the whole of Europe to trade with. They could easily say goodbye to Russia and Putler be able to do little about it. Depends on how the troops feel there along with those in command. Could happen anytime successfully or particularly after more large troop number losses. Breaking away from Russia would mean they would be able to cut themselves off from Putler's war.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on February 13, 2023, 09:17:22 AM
Kaliningrad would be a good territory to revolt. It's cut off from the rest of Russia so would be almost impossible to get troops in to take it back. It's naval forces could be taken over potentially to defend the sea access. Trade wise it's got the whole of Europe to trade with. They could easily say goodbye to Russia and Putler be able to do little about it. Depends on how the troops feel there along with those in command. Could happen anytime successfully or particularly after more large troop number losses. Breaking away from Russia would mean they would be able to cut themselves off from Putler's war.

Everything you said could also be said of Hawaii. Kaliningrad isn't going to revolt any sooner
than Honolulu will.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2023, 01:01:51 AM
Everything you said could also be said of Hawaii. Kaliningrad isn't going to revolt any sooner
than Honolulu will.

You want to bet do you? ;D

Speaking of betting men it's a shame our Mobers isn't here to give his view on the Russian Invasion given his wife is Russian and all. BillyB's opinion would be interesting also I know doubt he would support Ukraine given that his wife is Ukrainian.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 15, 2023, 01:07:41 AM
BillyB's opinion would be interesting also I know doubt he would support Ukraine given that his wife is Ukrainian.

Not necessarily true.  My wife is Russian, and I do not support Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 15, 2023, 02:24:26 PM
You want to bet do you? ;D

Speaking of betting men it's a shame our Mobers isn't here to give his view on the Russian Invasion given his wife is Russian and all. BillyB's opinion would be interesting also I know doubt he would support Ukraine given that his wife is Ukrainian.

Moby’s wife is half Russian. I would guess he wouldn’t support Russia.

Billy is MAGA. He views this from the Russian lens.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2023, 03:07:04 PM
Moby’s wife is half Russian. I would guess he wouldn’t support Russia.

Billy is MAGA. He views this from the Russian lens.

I think you're right with Mobers he termed the Belarusian President Lukashouldgo, so I doubt he is for Putler either. Would still be interesting to hear his thoughts on how things have go so far I think.

BillyB surprises me if so, I know he is pro-Trump and so you're likely right that he is also Make America Great Again. I would disagree that leaving Russia to have full reign is the way to do that. I know Billy gets wrapped up in all the political behind the scenes stuff, Biden, his son's activities out there, etc but I see it as more being at stake than all that stuff. I'm fully behind Ukraine although I think they have a tough road ahead.

I understand Russia's motives of seeing former Soviet states drift to the West that they used to feel were compatriots and the power shift there. However, Russia single handedly took it upon themselves to initiate this war on a pretty baseless pretext. Putler being out as an opportunist, aggressive, power grabber who can't be trusted.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2023, 03:34:31 PM
Not necessarily true.  My wife is Russian, and I do not support Russia.

A lot of Russian's don't support the invasion so it's easier to not support Russia. Where they support Russia and the western husband doesn't is where I imagine it could get awkward.

Most Ukrainians support Ukraine so usually less difference likely there as in a Ukrainian girl not supporting Ukraine but the guy does. That Billy's wife is Ukrainian is interesting Billy's position I would be surprised if she doesn't support Ukraine but I wouldn't know. My guess would be that Billy may keep any support of Russia quiet like his lack of vaccine jab from her ;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2023, 04:07:39 PM
Russia using Thermobarbic missiles in Ukraine:

http://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-2-15-23/h_e3d940bf2463b6054fa8403625a9ead9

Apparently pretty destructive stuff.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 16, 2023, 09:14:12 AM
in a gulag for Ukrainian children in the far away Urals...
a messiah gathers his army, and a child shall lead them
      ----
Russian media is prepping to make some big announcement in about a week
      ----
Russian Army Finance Minister fell out of window - death attributed to gravity of situation
      ----
A new apocalyptic cult will appear first in Kyiv and then spread throughout Ukraine and then to the rest of the world it will be centered on Chernobyl and a future messiah to save Ukraine
      ----
it will be learned that China has a huge fleet of advanced drones INSIDE the USA on land it owns used for intelligence gathering and capable of striking infrastructure like gas hubs, etc
      ----
Russia is preparing to launch a massive new ICBM into space as a "warning" in a couple of more weeks
      ----

AND A LOT that I can't talk about...
I'm on edge right now, TIMING is everything
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on February 16, 2023, 04:57:22 PM
You want to bet do you? ;D

It's my opinion only.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 16, 2023, 07:05:01 PM
the Stalingrad reenactment society will be performing not far from the original location at the end of next week....  Russia will be playing the role of the Red Army, and Ukrainians the role of the Fascist Army

due to the high cost of staging these reenactments, after the end of May, all future reenactments will be on a much more restricted, scaled back level, and the show's territory scaled back to pre Feb 2022 areas

meanwhile, Russia's political future depends on finding an anti-Putin "liberal" Presidential politician that is acceptable to the FSB and others, and there is NO such person...
although Tulsi Gabbard has volunteered to learn Russian if she doesn't get the American vote, and will give Russia a try

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 17, 2023, 05:21:02 AM

 That Billy's wife is Ukrainian is interesting Billy's position I would be surprised if she doesn't support Ukraine but I wouldn't know. My guess would be that Billy may keep any support of Russia quiet like his lack of vaccine jab from her ;)


I have noticed that many non-Russian, pro-Russian supporters are anti-vaxers also.


I suspect they're anti-west conspiracy theorists.


It's noticeable they're still not choosing to live in Russia though  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 17, 2023, 08:37:22 AM
I don't understand the logic of non-Russians supporting Russia.
Can someone explain this?

And don't get confused with some Republicans in US congress concerned about our budget deficit.  They are not against helping Ukraine and they are not supporters of Russia.  It is strictly a budget issue.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 17, 2023, 09:28:37 AM
I don't understand the logic of non-Russians supporting Russia.
Can someone explain this?

And don't get confused with some Republicans in US congress concerned about our budget deficit.  They are not against helping Ukraine and they are not supporters of Russia.  It is strictly a budget issue.


I worked with a guy who was very pro-Russia.In every other way he was a nice guy,wasn't even an anti-vaxer either.


He was working-class,English and white,in his fifties,and just felt the west was corrupt in every way,and that things were less corrupt in Russia.


He was adamant that the thought of Russia invading Ukraine was just corrupt western propaganda..just like some of the posters on here who've now made themselves scarce to go and post on the pro-russia site,after being made to look as stupid as they are on here.


So, after Russia did indeed invade Ukraine,i asked him how he felt knowing that all he had believed in all those years was now shown to be so wrong.


His sole reply was "Don't you start,i almost split from my wife last night about this ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 17, 2023, 09:29:51 AM
really ML?

it all comes back to the guy YOU voted for, and his ties to Putin
and the coverup after coverup that followed...

Trump and his supporters are all Putin afficianados
ask Tucker Carlson why he likes Putin so much, something about "anti-wokeness"

by voting for Putin's candidate, YOU helped his agenda
so don't go on pretending you are without sin...
you gulped down the koolaid just like the rest of Jonestown (tasty original flavory!)...

GazProm is funding anti-war protests here in the USA
under the guise of seeking peace
"think of the poor suffering people"
it's just as FAKE as the arguments Republicans have come up with about the cost of supporting Ukraine
with the same underlying intent

but instead of understanding this...
because you live in dumbfuckistan
you need to find a koolaid stand instead...

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 17, 2023, 09:37:51 AM
Russia is losing as many as 2000 men for every 100 yards gained in human wave assaults in Eastern Ukraine ,according to NATO Intelligence.


Source: thetimes.co.uk
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 17, 2023, 12:47:55 PM
He was working-class,English and white,in his fifties,and just felt the west was corrupt in every way,and that things were less corrupt in Russia.

ROFL at anyone who thinks Russia isn't corrupt. 

Yeah, their president, who was driving a taxi after the collapse of the USSR, is now worth over $88 billion (reportedly) due solely to his prescient investment activities. 

The mistress he had a child with went from being a maid to a millionaire "bank owner" thanks to her outstanding work ethic. :-\

Ask him how many millionaires with deep ties to Western governments have fallen out of windows in the West.

Please point those things out to him.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 17, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
really ML?

it all comes back to the guy YOU voted for, and his ties to Putin
and the coverup after coverup that followed...

Trump and his supporters are all Putin afficianados
ask Tucker Carlson why he likes Putin so much, something about "anti-wokeness"

by voting for Putin's candidate, YOU helped his agenda
so don't go on pretending you are without sin...
you gulped down the koolaid just like the rest of Jonestown (tasty original flavory!)...

GazProm is funding anti-war protests here in the USA
under the guise of seeking peace
"think of the poor suffering people"
it's just as FAKE as the arguments Republicans have come up with about the cost of supporting Ukraine
with the same underlying intent

but instead of understanding this...
because you live in dumbfuckistan
you need to find a koolaid stand instead...

You still didn't address the issue of why some normal people are supporting Russia.

Just because someone voted for X candidate does not mean they support Russia.

Yes, by voting for X candidate Putin may have been strengthened, but that still doesn't mean the voter supports Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 17, 2023, 03:51:53 PM
and here's your answer....
the photo shown below partially explains the origin of Putin worship in dumfuckistan
repeat a lie often enough and it will be headlines for the rubes on Fox

but the REAL appeal of Putin to Westerners is fascism-LITE
fascism-LITE (all the great tatse of fascism, but less filling)
is a pushback to the AWFUL burdens of liberalism

le petit fascists don't worry over pronouns or equal rights
fascists yearn only for freedumb and the restoration of Christian traditional values (wink, wink) that are being replaced by liberalism...

liberalism and fascism don't mix very well, they have different densities
oligarchs choose fascism, cuz liberalism leads to socialism
which would make oligarchs extinct
and thus oligarch media will be anti-liberal

and that essentially sums up everything
the rest you can figure out on your own

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 17, 2023, 07:04:03 PM
I have met no person in USA who supports the Russian terrorist invasion of Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 17, 2023, 07:46:25 PM
well here, let me introduce you to your fellow republicans who support Putin more than they support the elected President of the USA

http://accountability.gop/ukraine-quotes/

they're YOUR people ML...
and I'm SURE you understand them just fine...

bottom line, as a former Trump voter, you are responsible for enabling Trump's behavior towards Ukraine and the damage it caused
you wanna see an American who supported Putin
look in the freakin mirror....
and it doesn't matter one bit if you were cognizant of this fact when you did it or not

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 17, 2023, 08:29:21 PM
I don't understand the logic of non-Russians supporting Russia.
Can someone explain this?

And don't get confused with some Republicans in US congress concerned about our budget deficit.  They are not against helping Ukraine and they are not supporters of Russia.  It is strictly a budget issue.

I don't understand the logic either, but as krimster seems to state, it closely correlates with the nationalist/Trumpist movement.  Evidence abounds at 'another' FSUW-related forum, often promulgated by those who believe in conspiracy theories and related pro-Russia propaganda.  IMO, Trump is a Putin/autocrat wannabe, and his followers sing the same tune.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 17, 2023, 08:47:30 PM
To state once again what I have posted more than once in other threads:

I did not vote for Trump, nor did I vote for any other person.

Those who understand how the two party system in USA works will always vote a party line.

If some persons of your party are undesirable in some respect, you vote for them anyway.

If you cross party lines and vote for others . . . then you are voting for those who will seek to implement laws and policies that you oppose.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 17, 2023, 09:30:29 PM
ML,

I wasn't pointing a finger :)  The GOP currently suffers from the tyranny of a minority faction.  Unfortunately, this excess baggage puts national policies, supported by the majority of the population, i.e. Ukraine support and the debt ceiling, at risk.  This is the downside of our two-party, and nowadays, very adversarial system.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 17, 2023, 09:48:27 PM
you did't directly vote for Trump, because you indirectly voted for Trump, is something Trump would say...
doesn't matter...
all that Trump did is on people like YOU...
including Ukraine
including hundreds of thousands of dead Americans....
all on you
Make America Great, did you?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 17, 2023, 09:55:32 PM
I am convinced, and always have been, that Trump is compromised by the Russians. If I had to guess, I would guess it’s with money. The Soviets started working on Trump, allegedly, in 1980. I don’t find it coincidental that his first wife was a Czech who travelled there freely
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 18, 2023, 04:29:18 AM
ROFL at anyone who thinks Russia isn't corrupt. 

Yeah, their president, who was driving a taxi after the collapse of the USSR, is now worth over $88 billion (reportedly) due solely to his prescient investment activities. 

The mistress he had a child with went from being a maid to a millionaire "bank owner" thanks to her outstanding work ethic. :-\

Ask him how many millionaires with deep ties to Western governments have fallen out of windows in the West.

Please point those things out to him.


We no longer work together.I did say i'd pop round and see him during last summer but i never did..purely because of his pro Russian stance.


He was an avid watcher of RussianTV for his news information..said western media outlets all lie to the gullible's..
Maybe now it can no longer broadcast in the UK he's being weaned off the Kremlin propaganda.


When i asked him how he could justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine his reply was that it was to liberate Russian speakers from the tyranny of the Ukrainian Government.


When news came out that the Russians were actually killing Russian speakers in Ukraine by firing artillery rounds into their homes and dropping bombs onto them,i asked him how he felt now about what the Russians were doing he just smiled weakly and said "yeah i know".


I think when people are set in their ways and beliefs nothing is going to change their mentality.






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
I don't understand the logic either, but as krimster seems to state, it closely correlates with the nationalist/Trumpist movement.  Evidence abounds at 'another' FSUW-related forum, often promulgated by those who believe in conspiracy theories and related pro-Russia propaganda.  IMO, Trump is a Putin/autocrat wannabe, and his followers sing the same tune.


I agree with the above.  My observation is that Putinistas tend to not only be on the right of the political spectrum, but that they are usually racist (denying it, of course), and support so called "traditional" values, which really never existed and certainly don't exist in Russia. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2023, 04:31:01 PM
all great artists steal their ideas from other great artists that they admire...
very little originality going on in the world...

fundamental problem of ALL oligarchies
how do you get the masses to behave for the benefit of oligarchs and not look out for their own interests (which are in opposition to the oligarchs)
huh? how ya gonna manage the masses?

Trump has to get poor people to vote for the economic benefit of the .1%
Putin has to get people at the bottom of the social ladder to sacrifice their children's lives for his vain ambitions

same basic problem, same solution...
you make sure the masses are all an ignorant bunch of dumb asses
then you can tell 'em whatever lame story you want
you just have to repeat it alot

this is the world dumb asses live in
sooner or later the red hats are gonna come for your kids
how do I know?
cuz they already TRIED TO TAKE MINE
and that's all I can say about that

meanwhile, a drone of unknown origin landed about a mile away from my former homestead in crimea*...
and now my old hangout at Inkerman, (I have some amazing photos of exploring the 1,000 yr old cave churches there)
has been taken over by the Russian military who are stashing cruise missiles inside the cave monastary
next we'll hear NATO has missiles hiden in the Vatican as well
and we will have a holy intercine religious war

gott is mit uns
if he doesn't get bogged down doing bog stuff

*major disappointment that I couldn't acquire this drone, locals handed it over to the miltsa instead of a collector
in Israel, I liked to collect Iron Dome Rocket fragments, local kids would scout for me for shekels, known as "Scud Crud" super collectible







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2023, 06:04:06 PM
natural gas price in Amsterdam is at a 2 yr low...
notice how Russia no longer talks about an energy war
that's because there isn't one
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 18, 2023, 11:26:26 PM
Germany, IIRC EU largest consumer reports:

The gas supply in Germany is stable. The security of supply is safeguarded. Overall, the Bundesnetzagentur views the situation as less tense than at the beginning of the winter. It is unlikely that there will be a gas deficit situation this winter. At the same time, preparing for the 2023-2024 winter is a key challenge. It is therefore still important to save gas.
Gas is mainly being taken out of storage. The total storage level in Germany is 71.86%.
Gas consumption in the week beginning 6 February 2023 was 17% below the average consumption for 2018 to 2021 and up by 8.6% compared with the week before. Temperatures were 0.1°C higher than in the previous years.


http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/EN/Areas/Energy/Companies/SecurityOfSupply/GasSupply/start.html

When the crisis came about, many consumers, households, and industries started taking a good look at their consumption and ways to save energy.  We did some things here at home and are consuming roughly half of the pre-war levels, without sacrificing comfort.

I believe the marketplace has re-oriented itself, and efforts to wean from RU energy sources is quite comprehensive and will continue.

With China, India and a few stragglers buying RU fossil fuels at very steep discounts, I think Putin greatly underestimated the resolve and resilience of the West and is in deep trouble long term as their energy export-driven economy winds down.  Things are catching up with him quickly, with the west investing in new infrastructure and sourcing.

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you." comes to mind.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2023, 06:40:58 PM
I have to be VERY careful when I talk to Russians both domestic and abroad, none of us can talk about where are children are and what they're doing and what they're going through,
even though this topic is foremost on our minds.
paronoia in Russia is REALLY bad right now, and guess what
in Russia this is normal!!
why are you asking anyway?

The Russian economy is sinking, autmobile production is down over 60% is just one sign

Before the war, Russia’s resource-based economy depended mainly on the exploitation of the country’s oil and gas reserves and other stuff ya dig outta the ground. The government saw the Russian population largely as service personnel for the pipeline going to the West: any profits from this would only reach them in the form of rather meagre rations and a cheap korean smartphone.

The Russian leadership, and the businessmen entrusted by them to manage this flow of resources, could live their lives separately from the common folk, increasing their rations from time to time and encouraging people with the talk of past greatness and present superiority over those on the receiving end of the pipeline.

everything succeeds up to the point that if fails and Putin gambled one time too many
and like every gambler who gets a lucky initial bet and doesn't fold
putin bet himself into a corner and his luck has run out
he is as SOL as he can be...

he can put Russia on a diet, minimum public spending on health, housing, etc but MAX on military and he has the reserves to keep the system running with current inflows for about 2 more years, but he will exhaust ALL foreign financial reserves
at that point, the only alternative is to convert EVERYTHING in the budget to rubles
and run  the ruble printing presses like mad, and watch inflation soar to 100% per year
by March, 2024, when the presidential election is held, Russia's GDP will be 15% BELOW what it was in 2014!!!!!
Hey Russians are you better off then you were 10 years ago????
LOL

think how much insurance payments, fur coats and bags of noodles the Russian Federation is burning through EACH DAY right now

tell china we will sell Taiwan Trident Ballistic Submarines (as many as they want with the nukes!) like the UK, if even ONE Chinese bullet ends up in Russia

since I've been forced to leave Russia I have not allowed myself to have any hope of ever returning (even though I have LOTS of reasons to want to)
my beloved October country
I was like a spark returning to the fire
only seen in my dreams now
like an old friend who has died
you feel warm and sad
german must have a word for this emotion
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on February 19, 2023, 08:11:35 PM
I was like a spark returning to the fire
only seen in my dreams now
like an old friend who has died
you feel warm and sad
german must have a word for this emotion

Sehnsucht.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2023, 08:30:12 PM
Sehn·sucht,  hmmm oichen kuzna, with just a hint of nostalgie!
what better fare for dreams then this
a receiver tuned in to your own frequency
watching your old reruns
of happy days in a bright green Moscva park next to the river
especially with the right drug combination before bedtime to enhance lucid dreaming
into the arms of morpheos after the blood/brain barrier is crossed like the river styx and it gets to the far shore...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 21, 2023, 05:48:09 AM
CNN reporting that Polish civilians are now rushing to get 16 days military training as they gear up to try and repel a potential Russian orc invasion.


Meanwhile Putler did his speech to his zombie nation today,telling them how the west started this war as we seek to end their civilization.( hopefully we may well seek that now actually after this latest bout of terrorism from them )


It does seem rather contradictory how a nation defends itself by invading neighbours with the intention of rape,pillage and murder of the inhabitants....but those Ruski zombies suck up anything their deranged idiotic leader says...or do they really care what the motives were anyway,as massive blood-letting from their military is rather cool anyway in their sick  minds.







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 21, 2023, 09:42:42 AM
DeSantis should copy Putin's anti-woke message, oh never mind, Putin copied it from DeSantis
as America becomes more and more like Russia
and Russia becomes more and more like America
under the stewardship of global anti-woke oligarchies making the world safe for kleptocracy

the only surprise in the speech was Russia leaving the SALT treaty and preparing to detonate a nuke somewhere (in Russia...sure help yourself!!)

sure, if ya'll wanna start a nuclear arms race with the USA, go right ahead
remember the Pershing II missiles in Germany?  that's old news
now they'll be MUCH closer in Poland, Latvia, Finland, etc and one day even Ukraine
and yours will still be in...checking paper... Russia, another genuis move

Russia vrs NATO?
97% of Russia's military is currently occupied with Ukraine
and now ya wanna add the militaries from USA, Canada, UK, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Poland, and on and on... ON TOP OF THAT? and god forbid Luxumburg!!!
it's good the Russians still have that 3% in reserve LOL!!!

my simple spreadsheet model of equipment losses predicts
that by the Russian presidential election, half of all Russia's military equipment will have been lost, and the half that remains is the worst half and not the best
a year from now, and Russia will not be able to defend itself and with its industry crippled, it will take 10 years to replenish
any longer than that, and the Russian military will be so weak, it may not be able to fight off private armies and separatists that are only growing stronger
Russia's position gets weaker, the longer the war goes on
and conversely the West is getting stronger

the USA's LNG industry is eating Russia's lunch...
Lada can only paint the few cars it makes in either black or white, cuz they no longer can make the other colors (even the original orange!)

Putin never once in his two hour speech
mentioned ANYTHING about what the Ukrainian people wanted in this struggle
cuz he has recast the struggle as him vrs the evil west and its demonic wokeness
making it an idealogical war
instead of about grabbing territory from your neighbors cuz you can't figure out any other way of getting a bigger piece of pie
Putin is like Wile E Coyote, evertime he tries to throw a bomb a the road runner, it blows up in his face
and everytime he doubles down using more powder for the nexct time...
well...
guess what?





Title: LOL - Failure to Launch
Post by: krimster2 on February 22, 2023, 10:49:42 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2023/02/21/politics/russia-intercontinental-ballistic-missile-test/index.html

the best laid plans of mice and men,
hey Vlad, guess what?
THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY!!

the best thing the Russian people can do is have their own Maidan in Moscva, yes hundreds, maybe thousands will die, but that's just a day or two on the front
do you Russians wanna be slaves forever, or are ya gonna stand up for your kid's futures

so does this mean "THE OFFENSIVE" is also "kaput"?
is there some kinda plan of action, or is the Russian army just a big mob that fights with whatever gets in their way of looting and pillaging

my advice to ya'll if you gonna pick some place to pillage, Ukraine ain't it...have yo seen Monaco? they don't even have a military

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2023, 12:37:04 PM
Apparently according to this US ex-Marine guy fighting in Ukraine the average life expectancy is about 4hours:

http://ca.movies.yahoo.com/average-life-expectancy-front-line-184101568.html

That's pretty shocking and would detail that Ukraine is also taking heavy losses, probably not as heavy as the Russians but likely a lot all the same. As the guy says both sides are firing huge amounts of artillery shells at each other every day and of course those artillery shells are going to land on each other.

Many casualties also on both sides and I'm guessing some quite badly maimed. From what is known of the Ukrainian & Russian welfare system odds are they will be cast aside with only possibly their families to help them if they are lucky enough.

No real figures on casualties out at the moment that will likely only happen at the end of the conflict whenever that may be. I'm going to guess Ukraine has lost approximately 150,000 troops while Russia has lost around 200,000 troops, maybe more including Wagner. Those figures may seem on the high side but judging from the anecdotal evidence a distinct possibility perhaps.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2023, 02:54:17 AM
Several reports out over last few days that China may be about to sell weapons to Russia:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/19/china-may-be-on-brink-of-supplying-arms-to-russia-says-blinken

My guess is that China has been waiting to see how the balance of power in the war sits in Ukraine before doing so. They likely don't want Ukraine (the West) to win but also probably don't want Russia (their border neighbour) to win and end up with a more powerful Russia on its border. My guess is that they will only sell Russia weapons to prop it up if they start losing badly and are getting pushed out of Ukraine. That way they can profiteer out of the war and weaken both the West and Russia it's potential adversaries. With the West supplying modern tanks to Ukraine then that could be seen as unbalancing the war in Ukraine's favour. If China is willing to sell weapons to Russia to equalise Russia's position in the war then it could make the situation in Ukraine tricky indeed with no end in sight.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2023, 04:48:56 AM
Apparently according to this US ex-Marine guy fighting in Ukraine the average life expectancy is about 4hours:

http://ca.movies.yahoo.com/average-life-expectancy-front-line-184101568.html (http://ca.movies.yahoo.com/average-life-expectancy-front-line-184101568.html)

That's pretty shocking and would detail that Ukraine is also taking heavy losses, probably not as heavy as the Russians but likely a lot all the same. As the guy says both sides are firing huge amounts of artillery shells at each other every day and of course those artillery shells are going to land on each other.

Many casualties also on both sides and I'm guessing some quite badly maimed. From what is known of the Ukrainian & Russian welfare system odds are they will be cast aside with only possibly their families to help them if they are lucky enough.

No real figures on casualties out at the moment that will likely only happen at the end of the conflict whenever that may be. I'm going to guess Ukraine has lost approximately 150,000 troops while Russia has lost around 200,000 troops, maybe more including Wagner. Those figures may seem on the high side but judging from the anecdotal evidence a distinct possibility perhaps.


i've been following four soldiers fighting for Ukraine since the start of the orc invasion...two from the USA,and two Ukrainians.


Guess what ? They're all still alive and two of them are fighting in the Bakhmut battles..


I' watched a video of a Ukrainian soldier last week...he volunteered as soon as the orcs invaded,fought at Pisky and is currently part of a mortar team at Bakhmut...he's 71 and as of last week still alive.His hobby is mountain climbing,hence why he's stayed fit..heavy smoker though.


Two Ukrainian students who you may remember as being interviewed at the very start of the war as they were just conscripted and clearly nervous,have just been interviewed on the BBC again today...both still alive,although one of them was wounded but back out there fighting again...and they're still only twenty years old.


I remember one of them,studying to be an Accountant, saying at the time of their conscription "I'm really scared to die....but my country must be defended ".


I cannot comment on the orc lifespan in the war,but as far as the Ukrainian side is concerned the four hour life expectancy is total BS.


By the way the Russian losses,as the attacking force,are likely to be three times higher than the Ukraine losses as the defending force..it's how wars work .


That's why the Ukrainian forces aren't currently advancing,concentrating on holding the line instead and inflicting massive losses on the orcs.
The Ukrainians will start their counter-offensive in the spring ,when the mud has dried out,and the orcs will be on their knees again after suffering massive losses..


I see you're using a dodgy source there again Trenchie..yahoo.com  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2023, 06:39:32 AM
My bluff of 1 year ago for "consequences you've never seen " was correct.
You've never seen a military screw up this much .


I remain a master strategist.


Darth Putin@DarthPutinKGB
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2023, 08:41:05 AM


I cannot comment on the orc lifespan in the war,but as far as the Ukrainian side is concerned the four hour life expectancy is total BS.


By the way the Russian losses,as the attacking force,are likely to be three times higher than the Ukraine losses as the defending force..it's how wars work .


That's why the Ukrainian forces aren't currently advancing,concentrating on holding the line instead and inflicting massive losses on the orcs.
The Ukrainians will start their counter-offensive in the spring ,when the mud has dried out,and the orcs will be on their knees again after suffering massive losses..


The guy might mean right at the front line, there's being at the front then there's being right in the front line as in the closest to the fighting. I don't doubt that attackers usually invariably take higher losses so it makes sense for Ukraine to stay on the defensive and hope Russia gets worn out and totally demoralised like they did during WWI. I still think there is likely sone truth in what the guy said being the interviewed but probably wasn't clear enough on the specifics. It stands to reason to me that if Russia is firing loads of artillery a lot of it is going to fall on someone and the same vice versa, no one is impervious to mortar shells landing on them.

Well 1 year anniversary of war today and its still going on, one wonders for how much longer I don't see no end in sight as yet.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 24, 2023, 09:07:05 AM

By the way the Russian losses,as the attacking force,are likely to be three times higher than the Ukraine losses as the defending force..it's how wars work .

That 3 to 1 idea might be an 'old husband's' tale.

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/2018/03/05/comparing-the-rand-version-of-the-31-rule-to-real-world-data/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 24, 2023, 11:43:47 AM
That 3 to 1 idea might be an 'old husband's' tale.

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/2018/03/05/comparing-the-rand-version-of-the-31-rule-to-real-world-data/ (http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/2018/03/05/comparing-the-rand-version-of-the-31-rule-to-real-world-data/)


I actually think the orc losses are much higher than 3 to 1.


I say that because the Ukrainians are not hiding their soldiers losses...every dead soldier is given a military funeral and the Ukrainian flag flys over his/her grave once buried.


If anyone was to drive around Ukraine and count the  Ukrainian flags flying over graves they will find out exactly how many of their troops lives have been lost...there are a lot in Kyiv,but not as many in other cities and towns from what i've seen.


However,the orcs often just etch their deads names on a memoriam and in one region they'd run out of space there were so many.


Unlike the orcs,the Ukrainians don't leave their dead rotting in trenches,fields and forests...they bring their heroes home for a proper burial.


I've actually seen a video of a Ukrainian soldiers procession to burial..it was very moving as hundreds of cars and lorries stopped in his home town with the occupants getting out and kneeling and bowing their heads by their vehicles, in tribute to the fallen soldier,whilst the military coffins bearers do the slow walk in step to the drum.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 24, 2023, 01:44:50 PM
What about the bodies the Ukrainians can't recover?

I have a lady friend who is an assistant to frontline doctors.  She's currently in Bakhmut.  2 days ago, the house in Bakhmut they had been staying in and using as a field hospital was bombed and burned.  All the people she had been working with were killed.  She survived because she was on the road transporting wounded.  She was very distraught when I talked to her.

Не можем забрать тела погибших и передать родителям.
русские черти поливат все огнем, не позволяют нам забирать погибших.
(We can't take the bodies of the dead and give them to their parents.  The Russian devils pour all the fire, do not allow us to take the dead.)

I told her that soon more western weapons would arrive, and they would make the Russians pay.

Пока приедет обещаное оружие нас может уже небыть в живых
(By the time the promised weapons arrive, we may no longer be alive.)


Even now, Ukraine is finding the remains of bodies of servicemen in areas Ukraine has recaptured.  Only then are they moved from the missing category to the killed statistics.  Ukraine is only able to recover bodies from Ukrainian held territory. 
I suspect that Ukrainian losses are higher than what is officially reported.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2023, 03:36:08 PM
What about the bodies the Ukrainians can't recover?

I have a lady friend who is an assistant to frontline doctors.  She's currently in Bakhmut.  2 days ago, the house in Bakhmut they had been staying in and using as a field hospital was bombed and burned.  All the people she had been working with were killed.  She survived because she was on the road transporting wounded.  She was very distraught when I talked to her.

Не можем забрать тела погибших и передать родителям.
русские черти поливат все огнем, не позволяют нам забирать погибших.
(We can't take the bodies of the dead and give them to their parents.  The Russian devils pour all the fire, do not allow us to take the dead.)

I told her that soon more western weapons would arrive, and they would make the Russians pay.

Пока приедет обещаное оружие нас может уже небыть в живых
(By the time the promised weapons arrive, we may no longer be alive.)


Even now, Ukraine is finding the remains of bodies of servicemen in areas Ukraine has recaptured.  Only then are they moved from the missing category to the killed statistics.  Ukraine is only able to recover bodies from Ukrainian held territory. 
I suspect that Ukrainian losses are higher than what is officially reported.

You see now why I said your lady should have done a runner. It could have so easily have been her killed along with the rest of them and it is no doubt playing on her mind that she was almost it being that way. That and of course not putting all your eggs in one basket, she got real lucky that day but there is no guarantees about the future, she could be killed tommorow, next week, next month, several years time if the the war goes on that long.

It's good at least that you have come forward with her situation Beefarmer as it does at least show how precarious life can be out there at the moment. CB seems to think most Ukrainians are impervious to being hit or if they do it doesn't effect them. Sure Russian losses are almost certainly higher as they have disregard for their troops but Ukrainian troops are under massive artillery bombardment each day and are literally being carpet bombed by it all. They are doing well despite this but I'm not so sure how long they can keep it up before they break. Western tanks need to get there soon as they'll need them to avoid being hammered into oblivion.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 24, 2023, 09:11:40 PM
such touching poignant moments...
between you and your imaginary soldier girl friend
Hawg Hollar must be quite the cosmopolitan metropolis to get such a major playboy figure like you!!!   LOL

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 25, 2023, 05:10:29 AM
You see now why I said your lady should have done a runner. It could have so easily have been her killed along with the rest of them and it is no doubt playing on her mind that she was almost it being that way. That and of course not putting all your eggs in one basket, she got real lucky that day but there is no guarantees about the future, she could be killed tommorow, next week, next month, several years time if the the war goes on that long.

It's good at least that you have come forward with her situation Beefarmer as it does at least show how precarious life can be out there at the moment. CB seems to think most Ukrainians are impervious to being hit or if they do it doesn't effect them. Sure Russian losses are almost certainly higher as they have disregard for their troops but Ukrainian troops are under massive artillery bombardment each day and are literally being carpet bombed by it all. They are doing well despite this but I'm not so sure how long they can keep it up before they break. Western tanks need to get there soon as they'll need them to avoid being hammered into oblivion.


Well MOST Ukrainians haven't been hit....that's a fact.


That doesn't mean that plenty haven't...too many in a senseless war driven by murderous Russian terrorists.


The orcs are also under massive artillery bombardment..from higher precision 155mm artillery than the 152mm artlllery they have.....so their losses are far higher.


The Ukrainians soldiers are also armed with better equipment than the orcs,which the orcs are constantly complaining about on their Telegram channels...things like Thermal sights .
Orcs are bleating "The farkin enemy can see us at night whilst we can't see them".


They are also complaining that the Ukrainians have built "underground concrete cities",so when artillery hits their positions,when the smoke clears the Ukrainians are back out in the trenches firing at them .


The Ukrainians also have better body armour than the orcs when they do get hit.


Guess what ? All this leads to far higher orc losses than the Ukrainians are experiencing...despite your regular posts which try to determine otherwise,as if you take a morbid glee in it.


If you're hoping all the young Ukrainian men are going to be killed,leaving you with little competition for the Ukrainian hotties that remain,because you'd have absolutely no chance of competing with war heroes...then think again.




I don't know if you realize that whilst Russia is throwing all their forces into this current offensive,Ukraine is holding back most of their forces in preparation for the spring counter-offensive.


The first Leopard Tanks  arrived in Ukraine yesterday...when the rest arrive along with the Challenger Tanks and the mud dries out,watch in awe as you see what happens to the orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 25, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
Trench, go to your local thrift shops, and see if you can score an old territorial uniform that will fit you...
go on ebay.uk and buy some "Right Sector" and other Ukrainian patches
if you can't sew em on yourself, then ask your ma
two problems solved: attire and chick magnet
practice strutting around in your uniform slapping your hip with leather gloves


Twice, I wore a uniform for REAL, were absolute chick magnets...

in Russia, I put on a dead relatives full military uniform I found in his closet
he was a col
his uniform fit me perfectly
and without my family's knowledge, I went out to various public places in the uniform
nodding curtly to people as I passed them....

this is how I developed my reputation in Russia
by doing absolutely insane stuff like this...
in Russia you are what you do
and you do what you are

I see some early signs the war is coming to Krim
reiterated to dumb phuque putin loving relatives they should leave and go to Rostov
but no, they are dumb phuques

the only bright spot in the sea of misery
is the end...
wars end

can you imagine being in Odesa or Kyiv on the new Victory Day like being in London for VE-Day
sweeeeet

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2023, 05:16:37 PM

Guess what ? All this leads to far higher orc losses than the Ukrainians are experiencing...despite your regular posts which try to determine otherwise,as if you take a morbid glee in it.


If you're hoping all the young Ukrainian men are going to be killed,leaving you with little competition for the Ukrainian hotties that remain,because you'd have absolutely no chance of competing with war heroes...then think again.


I don't take morbid glee in it but it's more about being realistic. That's the only thing that counts in these situations at the end of the day. You've seen the images of Bakhmut on TV the place is pretty much flattened by Russian Artillery, that's what they do they go in carpet bomb the place and force the defenders out, eventually. During that carpet bombing many defenders will be killed, they can't avoid tall of the shelving as it happens all at once. Sure Ukrainian have some longer range artillery but we're talking hugh numbers if Russian Artillery here too much for Ukraine to get them all. I don't think Ukraine's chances are hopeless and I hope they prevail but in all realisticity it's won't be going down as one sided Ukrainian superiority as you seem to think, they will be getting hammered hard and taking significant casualties along the way.

On the Ukrainian woman issue I think you are forgetting one thing, the thing that is most important to many Ukrainian women is that the guy is a provider. A dead Ukrainian hero boyfriend, husband, etc no longer fulfills that role. They are no longer of any use to her and it will be a guy with money/who can provide who trump them. Women have their emotional moments but out side of them they're is a very practical core to them. They can only exist in the present and what happened yesterday is of little use to them if it no longer helps them in the present. So I need not go off and become a war hero to impress them, even if I did it would still be ability to provide which would weigh in at the end of the day.

I was reading an article just yesterday that pointed out that there will be a demographic problem at the end of the war in Ukraine and if Russia keeps burning through men heavily probably in Russia as well. It said that most don't like to speak of it at the moment as the focus is really on the war and trying to achieve victory. However Ukraine has a much smaller population than Russia. It can only afford to lose so many men before it becomes a problem. Most Ukrainian women if course aren't at the front and won't be drafted so it's a one sided gender loss for the most part. Ironically the MOB dating talk of, 'there being more women to men' in the FSU might finally be coming true and coming home to roost now. It is terrible to say that as it's Ukrainian guys who are suffering miserable deaths at the front. So I take no glee in it nor wished for it, it was not my doing but it is as it is. However, in theory it does mean that it could help solve the western dating problem at least for those guys willing to get out there and at the same time provide the practical solution for women of who to date/provide for them. Western guys such as myself can step into the breach on that one, it helps us and it helps them. I've suffered bad times growing up in the UK, first feminism and females entering the workforce and lowering wages, then the EU and East European immigration lowering wages and pushing up house prices and so getting in where the going is good for a change I make no bones about as the way I see it I'm more than overdue for circumstances that favour me rather than work against me.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 25, 2023, 05:43:07 PM
"circumstances that favor you"

are more likely to happen when you apply some thought and effort into making them happen as opposed to being passive
and if you don't put out very much effort into your life, then don't blame the ones who do and then get ahead of you
it's not their fault
now is it?

it's what I keep tellin ya'll
this AIN'T an external problem
but an internal one
you are who caused you to be where you are
and not someone else
so get focused on a plan
and DO IT!!!

you can't change the world
but you can change yourself

you can be better than you are
you could be swinging on a star

and all the monkeys aren't in a zoo
they sometimes call them Bee Farmer to
a seed spillin fool,
who plays excessively with his little tool

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on February 25, 2023, 05:49:08 PM
Trench,
I have to agree with your analysis, it makes common sense.
If I were still looking, I would be wondering what my preferences would be between seeking a Ukrainian woman and a Russian woman?
Being somewhat of a critical thinker and rational decision maker I would have a hard time wanting to pursue someone that thinks invading a sovereign country to expand it's territory is rational or moral.

It's been a fairly peaceful 10 years in Redlands and my wife and daughter (14) got to experience local snow for the first time in about 10 years here. 

Wife's mother in her 80's is having a hard time in Kiev and her older brother is also having a hard time finding enough work to feed his family.  We have been sending money to them to help them out.  Hopefully this damned war will not go on forever.

Hi to all the old names I see that are still active on the forum.

Doug, Larissa, Lisa
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2023, 05:52:23 AM
I don't take morbid glee in it but it's more about being realistic. That's the only thing that counts in these situations at the end of the day. You've seen the images of Bakhmut on TV the place is pretty much flattened by Russian Artillery, that's what they do they go in carpet bomb the place and force the defenders out, eventually. During that carpet bombing many defenders will be killed, they can't avoid tall of the shelving as it happens all at once. Sure Ukrainian have some longer range artillery but we're talking hugh numbers if Russian Artillery here too much for Ukraine to get them all. I don't think Ukraine's chances are hopeless and I hope they prevail but in all realisticity it's won't be going down as one sided Ukrainian superiority as you seem to think, they will be getting hammered hard and taking significant casualties along the way.

On the Ukrainian woman issue I think you are forgetting one thing, the thing that is most important to many Ukrainian women is that the guy is a provider. A dead Ukrainian hero boyfriend, husband, etc no longer fulfills that role. They are no longer of any use to her and it will be a guy with money/who can provide who trump them. Women have their emotional moments but out side of them they're is a very practical core to them. They can only exist in the present and what happened yesterday is of little use to them if it no longer helps them in the present. So I need not go off and become a war hero to impress them, even if I did it would still be ability to provide which would weigh in at the end of the day.

I was reading an article just yesterday that pointed out that there will be a demographic problem at the end of the war in Ukraine and if Russia keeps burning through men heavily probably in Russia as well. It said that most don't like to speak of it at the moment as the focus is really on the war and trying to achieve victory. However Ukraine has a much smaller population than Russia. It can only afford to lose so many men before it becomes a problem. Most Ukrainian women if course aren't at the front and won't be drafted so it's a one sided gender loss for the most part. Ironically the MOB dating talk of, 'there being more women to men' in the FSU might finally be coming true and coming home to roost now. It is terrible to say that as it's Ukrainian guys who are suffering miserable deaths at the front. So I take no glee in it nor wished for it, it was not my doing but it is as it is. However, in theory it does mean that it could help solve the western dating problem at least for those guys willing to get out there and at the same time provide the practical solution for women of who to date/provide for them. Western guys such as myself can step into the breach on that one, it helps us and it helps them. I've suffered bad times growing up in the UK, first feminism and females entering the workforce and lowering wages, then the EU and East European immigration lowering wages and pushing up house prices and so getting in where the going is good for a change I make no bones about as the way I see it I'm more than overdue for circumstances that favour me rather than work against me.


Unlike calmissile i don't agree.


Sexy Svetlana has seen Vlad the local guy go off and fight for Ukraine and to save her and her family from the ravishing orc hordes.


She knows he fancies her...what sane guy wouldn't,with her gorgeous face and body to die for...but he doesn't earn much money,so she's in communication with some foreign guys who promise her the Earth.


He comes back on leave from time to time wearing his hero of Ukraine medals and his uniform,where he gets swamped with adulation by the locals...and they get to know each other better...there's even a tik tok video out there,played to really cool music,where he's climbing through trenches and slaughtering invading orcs.It was downloaded to twitter and has 150k  likes already.


The war eventually ends and the demonic ors have been routed and local celeb hot Vlad is back and getting soooo much work thrown at him rebuilding her shattered country he's actually becoming rather well off...and he's even started to build a rather impressive place to live.


A lot of foreigners are coming to Ukraine now,including where she lives,to see the country that smashed Russia,and they all want to meet Vlad because he's such a hero...some invite him to have dinner with them and he's inviting her to join him and he's making big contacts now.


He took her to Kyiv last week ,where he was presented with all this stuff from President Zelensky as a thank you for his heroics.


She does like him...she was worried when he was away fighting the orcs...and of course they speak the same language and have shared experiences about the war,and all her family worship the ground he walks on.


There is this guy from the UK who likes her,who cowered there instead of coming to help Ukrainian people by doing aid runs.She knows he's not a fighter,but she thinks he could at least have helped her country in need.She has a friend who hooked up with a guy from the UK who met her whilst delivering some food and generators to where she lives...but the guy from the UK who has the hots for sexy Svetlana is not heroic at all...he clearly doesn't give a shite about her country and she suspects he's just a sex tourist looking to take advantage of the situation.


I know where my money is on which bloke she'll choose to be with.


By the way 20% of the Ukrainian troops at the front are....women.

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on February 26, 2023, 11:59:51 AM
On the Ukrainian woman issue I think you are forgetting one thing, the thing that is most
important to many Ukrainian women is that the guy is a provider. A dead Ukrainian hero
boyfriend, husband, etc no longer fulfills that role. They are no longer of any use to her
and it will be a guy with money/who can provide who trump them.


You pretend that you have the primary thing
that FSUW want. Hahahahahahahaha!


Get off your incel website and into real life. Buy a ticket, rent an apartment and stop
with the excuses. They want a man of action, be a man of action.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2023, 02:51:11 PM

Unlike calmissile i don't agree.


Sexy Svetlana has seen Vlad the local guy go off and fight for Ukraine and to save her and her family from the ravishing orc hordes.


She knows he fancies her...what sane guy wouldn't,with her gorgeous face and body to die for...but he doesn't earn much money,so she's in communication with some foreign guys who promise her the Earth.


He comes back on leave from time to time wearing his hero of Ukraine medals and his uniform,where he gets swamped with adulation by the locals...and they get to know each other better...there's even a tik tok video out there,played to really cool music,where he's climbing through trenches and slaughtering invading orcs.It was downloaded to twitter and has 150k  likes already.


The war eventually ends and the demonic ors have been routed and local celeb hot Vlad is back and getting soooo much work thrown at him rebuilding her shattered country he's actually becoming rather well off...and he's even started to build a rather impressive place to live.


A lot of foreigners are coming to Ukraine now,including where she lives,to see the country that smashed Russia,and they all want to meet Vlad because he's such a hero...some invite him to have dinner with them and he's inviting her to join him and he's making big contacts now.


He took her to Kyiv last week ,where he was presented with all this stuff from President Zelensky as a thank you for his heroics.


She does like him...she was worried when he was away fighting the orcs...and of course they speak the same language and have shared experiences about the war,and all her family worship the ground he walks on.


There is this guy from the UK who likes her,who cowered there instead of coming to help Ukrainian people by doing aid runs.She knows he's not a fighter,but she thinks he could at least have helped her country in need.She has a friend who hooked up with a guy from the UK who met her whilst delivering some food and generators to where she lives...but the guy from the UK who has the hots for sexy Svetlana is not heroic at all...he clearly doesn't give a shite about her country and she suspects he's just a sex tourist looking to take advantage of the situation.


I know where my money is on which bloke she'll choose to be with.


By the way 20% of the Ukrainian troops at the front are....women.


As said before it depends on what being at the front actually means, some are likely in supporting roles not actually on the front line but near it, some may be like Beefarmer's supposed lady friend and be in the medical side of it, etc.

I see a different scenario unfolding, after the war they will be less men to women, MOB agencies will finally be able to prove that one is true and not bs, happy days for them. So Svetlana and all the other Ukrainian girls will all be extra eager to land a guy, like musical chairs none of them will be wanting to be left out, but alas too few guys for each to have one let alone trying to get one they want and feel can support them, etc In fact you don't need to have that fewer guys to girls ratio before it starts to get difficult for girls to find a guy, it squeezes the whole game and makes it uber competitive for a girl to find a guy. Imagine a room with 10 girls and 9 guys, odds are most times all the guys would walk out with a girl in the FSU. If there are only 8 or even 7 guys in that room then the girls are likely to get very competitive and get all bitch fest like.

The scenario of the guy you describe is possible but not likely everyday then there is whether he has trauma from war, whether he really can assimilate back into civilian life. At the moment Ukraine's cities are slowly being destroyed in the east, it's economy is in dire straits and I don't see offers of post war economic assistance coming good, the Coronavirus has screwed most western nations for them to be stumping much up.

So in I come :D Sure a bit of an older guy but not real old, from a friendly ally country and more importantly to them has some degree of wealth at least way better than most of them/the guys they know. Even speaks a bit of not so great Russian but learning to improve all the time.

So think???? If you're the Ukrainian chick what are you going to do? Hmmnn she'll be thinking there are maybe 5 or 6 Ukrainian guys to every 10 Ukrainian girl. Of those some are already married, some are older guys and some are younger guys. The other guys are dating, playing the field because there are so many women to men or are economically impoverished, unemployed, maimed or mentally screwed from the war, etc. So all of a sudden it's real difficult to find any guy never mind a decent one and if you find even just any guy all the other girls are out to steal him even if he ain't all that.

So here's this guy from the UK just rocked up, familiar with Ukraine, speaks some very basic Russian, has a few bob in his pocket and from a country that is fairly wealthy and not devastated by war, free NHS service where you can get some vaccines for free, free State Schools with many vaccinations free for kids, decent dentistry, decent state pension, etc, etc. So our Svetlana starts thinking, hmmnn... I wonder if it might be worthwhile going with him, I can chase the local guys and end up with another bad day story to tell of being played, or ending up with a non starter of a guy, or quickly dumped, or just not getting a look in, etc. Or I can try this guy and immediately be living in the lap of luxury (at least compared to what Ukrainians are used to). Away from all the joblessness, economic hardship, suffering cold bitter weather with no money for fuel bills, little entertainment activities, etc, etc.

Now just what do you think Svetlana will choose?

Sure if there is a 'war hero' she could chase him with many of the other many, many Ukrainian girls but what are her chances? Most Ukrainian guys returning although theoretically 'heros' have just trudged along possibly surviving by luck more than anything and just doing the job. Many other of the hero's are now dead having succumbed to enemy fire after their moment of glory.

You see CB I'm not doubting that a few guys may live your scenario but most won't be, as Calmissile has just told us things aren't good out there economically. That means people are suffering badly even far away from the front line in Ukraine. Most Ukrainian women are likely to jump at the chance to be away from all of that. A foreign guy from the UK could be seen as a good catch by many Ukrainian girls. Their not expecting foreign guys to get involved in their fight or even aid work it's not our fight nor business. They'll accept that the foreign guy lives his life with the goings on that happen in his country not theirs. Again Ukrainian womens practical core will step in and say 'hey this guy can provide many Ukrainian guys can't' what do you think she'll choose?




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2023, 03:00:24 PM

You pretend that you have the primary thing
that FSUW want. Hahahahahahahaha!


Get off your incel website and into real life. Buy a ticket, rent an apartment and stop
with the excuses. They want a man of action, be a man of action.

I've got holiday booked for April Beel. I agree action is what is needed. I booked it for then as Krim rightly said warm weather sees horrible big coats come off and the sexy tight fitting gear on.

In Chisinau there should be all sorts there, Moldovans, Ukrainian refugees, some Russians. They will have gone through one winter of little heating so will be ready for me to warm them up and jump ship ;)

This should be a good test of how the war may help a WM's chances. I'm expecting that many Ukrainian girls may have crossed the border already fed up with the war and seeking better elsewhere.  So I'm kind of really looking forward to it, a chance to see if I can really make a go of it this time.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 26, 2023, 03:41:13 PM
As said before it depends on what being at the front actually means, some are likely in supporting roles not actually on the front line but near it, some may be like Beefarmer's supposed lady friend and be in the medical side of it, etc.

I see a different scenario unfolding, after the war they will be less men to women, MOB agencies will finally be able to prove that one is true and not bs, happy days for them. So Svetlana and all the other Ukrainian girls will all be extra eager to land a guy, like musical chairs none of them will be wanting to be left out, but alas too few guys for each to have one let alone trying to get one they want and feel can support them, etc In fact you don't need to have that fewer guys to girls ratio before it starts to get difficult for girls to find a guy, it squeezes the whole game and makes it uber competitive for a girl to find a guy. Imagine a room with 10 girls and 9 guys, odds are most times all the guys would walk out with a girl in the FSU. If there are only 8 or even 7 guys in that room then the girls are likely to get very competitive and get all bitch fest like.

The scenario of the guy you describe is possible but not likely everyday then there is whether he has trauma from war, whether he really can assimilate back into civilian life. At the moment Ukraine's cities are slowly being destroyed in the east, it's economy is in dire straits and I don't see offers of post war economic assistance coming good, the Coronavirus has screwed most western nations for them to be stumping much up.

So in I come :D Sure a bit of an older guy but not real old, from a friendly ally country and more importantly to them has some degree of wealth at least way better than most of them/the guys they know. Even speaks a bit of not so great Russian but learning to improve all the time.

So think???? If you're the Ukrainian chick what are you going to do? Hmmnn she'll be thinking there are maybe 5 or 6 Ukrainian guys to every 10 Ukrainian girl. Of those some are already married, some are older guys and some are younger guys. The other guys are dating, playing the field because there are so many women to men or are economically impoverished, unemployed, maimed or mentally screwed from the war, etc. So all of a sudden it's real difficult to find any guy never mind a decent one and if you find even just any guy all the other girls are out to steal him even if he ain't all that.

So here's this guy from the UK just rocked up, familiar with Ukraine, speaks some very basic Russian, has a few bob in his pocket and from a country that is fairly wealthy and not devastated by war, free NHS service where you can get some vaccines for free, free State Schools with many vaccinations free for kids, decent dentistry, decent state pension, etc, etc. So our Svetlana starts thinking, hmmnn... I wonder if it might be worthwhile going with him, I can chase the local guys and end up with another bad day story to tell of being played, or ending up with a non starter of a guy, or quickly dumped, or just not getting a look in, etc. Or I can try this guy and immediately be living in the lap of luxury (at least compared to what Ukrainians are used to). Away from all the joblessness, economic hardship, suffering cold bitter weather with no money for fuel bills, little entertainment activities, etc, etc.

Now just what do you think Svetlana will choose?

Sure if there is a 'war hero' she could chase him with many of the other many, many Ukrainian girls but what are her chances? Most Ukrainian guys returning although theoretically 'heros' have just trudged along possibly surviving by luck more than anything and just doing the job. Many other of the hero's are now dead having succumbed to enemy fire after their moment of glory.

You see CB I'm not doubting that a few guys may live your scenario but most won't be, as Calmissile has just told us things aren't good out there economically. That means people are suffering badly even far away from the front line in Ukraine. Most Ukrainian women are likely to jump at the chance to be away from all of that. A foreign guy from the UK could be seen as a good catch by many Ukrainian girls. Their not expecting foreign guys to get involved in their fight or even aid work it's not our fight nor business. They'll accept that the foreign guy lives his life with the goings on that happen in his country not theirs. Again Ukrainian womens practical core will step in and say 'hey this guy can provide many Ukrainian guys can't' what do you think she'll choose?


I don't think there will be such a discrepancy between young men and young women in Ukraine after the war as you think there will be.


Why ?
 
Well you seem to have forgotten 5 million people,mainly young women and children fled Ukraine a year ago..and the vast majority won't be going back...the single hotties certainly.


Ok not all of them were young single women,but i suspect at least 1 million were,and they'll be busily using their three year visa's to hook up with local guys..i suspect half of them are already married or engaged.





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2023, 04:10:59 PM

I don't think there will be such a discrepancy between young men and young women in Ukraine after the war as you think there will be.


Why ?
 
Well you seem to have forgotten 5 million people,mainly young women and children fled Ukraine a year ago..and the vast majority won't be going back...the single hotties certainly.


Ok not all of them were young single women,but i suspect at least 1 million were,and they'll be busily using their three year visa's to hook up with local guys..i suspect half of them are already married or engaged.

Most of the women with children want to return from most of the TV interviews I have seen. In that age (children) the girl to boy ratio will be roughly similar as they grow up. That's of course years into the future and outside my demographic age range. For women aged 18+ plus at this point in time there will be too few men to go around, not unless polygamy takes hold lol. Few women date younger guys, an odd few may do if not much other choice but to most 18+ girls they will likely consider 18+ guys and guys in their twenties probably even thirties if not many guys around maybe even local guys in their forties, some girls will just get desperate and accept almost anything. But for the 18+ girl look all they want in these age ranges and all will have been diminished by the war.

So it will be about 10-20 years before Ukraine starts to recover demographically and the children now grow up and fill the late teens, twenties & thirties age range. Even then it depends how the economy goes, alcoholism etc. The upper age ranges will still have that shortfall of guy from the war for any that want to date that far.

As of today though we've got at least a 10 year plus period from when the war finishes to get in while the times are good for WM probably similar to after the fall of the Soviet Union.

I estimated that if Ukraine loses about 100,000 troops that divide that by the regions then the cities within that region and it likely amounts to a few hundred guys lost locally on average. A few hundred locally may not sound like a lot but it doesn't take much to tip the gender balance. A few less guys to girls and the girls start to get desperate. A bit like a group of 30 women waiting for a bus that only has 27 seats, all will be standing their waiting and anxious about getting a seat as they know a few will miss out and not be allowed on the bus.

The single hottie girl refugees I don't know about, less is said of them. Some may go back, some may try and stay, some may have been picked up by a guy. I think it varies as to what they want in life. Some may have stayed in Ukraine. Some may only want to be abroad if with a guy from that country to look after them. It really varies I think. There is not necessarily a certainty that they can stay once the refugee period is over depending on the country. There is also what guy they get with and how well he lives.

I personally think more families have fled than anyone and many of the single girls that have fled some have returned for various reasons. In general it's why I'm looking at partly basing myself abroad in Moldova/Ukraine as I think a lot of girls are happiest on their own turf and this war has kind of shown that for real I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2023, 04:20:09 PM

I'd say you've got more chance of hooking up with a Ukrainian hottie in Moldova than you have in Ukraine..because a Moldovan man isn't much of a catch for them in general.


That is a good point CB and one I agree with, Moldova is the poorest country in Europe (don't know about now if Ukraine is) but there is that then their is the racial difference and possible slight language difference and how they view each other. If there is the poor Moldovan guy Vs me then on paper at least I should have the advantage. I can fly in set her (& me) up in a nice flat near the city centre and pay for her upkeep with it all being relatively cheap to me where the Moldovan guy can't. They are mostly on such low wages that they can't hope to compete. The Earnings out there are about £/$/€ 150 or so per month. On top of that they have a hearing fuel crises out there so times are tough. A western guy can save a girl from all of that to which she would no doubt be grateful.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 27, 2023, 06:02:28 PM
As said before it depends on what being at the front actually means, some are likely in supporting roles not actually on the front line but near it, some may be like Beefarmer's supposed lady friend and be in the medical side of it etc.



Here's a young Ukrainain lady back from the front...she got hit by Mortar fire.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp_gTdWXoAAHRiT?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 27, 2023, 06:04:42 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp_gTdfWAAAAAtx?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 27, 2023, 06:08:33 PM
Rusya is 19 and as you can see she lost half of one of her legs in the blast.


She was serving as a Comms Systems operator until her vehicle got hit by the Mortar fire.


She intends going back to the frontline when she gets out of hospital.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 27, 2023, 07:57:31 PM
As of December 1  59,786 women served in the Ukrainian army, of whom 18,000 are civilian workers in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 41,000 hold military positions and 5,000 are on the front line.
Tetiana Ostashchenko, the commander of the Medical Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, became the first female general in the Ukrainian army.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Ye9gMqLJY&t=211s
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2023, 02:49:13 AM

Here's a young Ukrainain lady back from the front...she got hit by Mortar fire.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp_gTdWXoAAHRiT?format=jpg&name=small)

Poor girl, she looks quite pretty as well. Sorry to see her lose her leg at such a young age from it, can't be nice. I didn't mean if course that no women were at the front line, a few will be but that there will be those near the front line but not on it. Even being near the front line as Bee Farmer has shown us carries some risk as Mortars can go a long way and are often fired behind the front lines. Odds are in proportion male casual rate percentage wise will be higher than female. That and a maimed girl like this unfortunate girl is guts will still see as marriage worthy, a guy who is maimed and so hence struggles to get work won't be seen so.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2023, 02:58:23 AM
As of December 1  59,786 women served in the Ukrainian army, of whom 18,000 are civilian workers in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 41,000 hold military positions and 5,000 are on the front line.
Tetiana Ostashchenko, the commander of the Medical Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, became the first female general in the Ukrainian army.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Ye9gMqLJY&t=211s

Thanks for the figures JDG, yep that's a what I mean so the 5,000 or so female front line troops is really a small amount. That's not to say those behind the line is not somewhat dangerous as CB has highlighted but the greatest risk will usually be on the front line. The military civilians will be likely mostly office staff and will be least at risk.

So the guts will in general be the ones taking most of the casualties being most of those at the front as originally supposed.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 28, 2023, 01:27:42 PM
what?
are ya gonna be like Paul McCartney?

it was her left leg, she's all right now

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on February 28, 2023, 11:53:48 PM
You seem to be again confusing women with puppies, Trench.  This brave woman, even without a leg, will most certainly have many fine suitors among those she served with. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 01, 2023, 02:57:44 AM
what?
are ya gonna be like Paul McCartney?

it was her left leg, she's all right now

Lol, I think it was Stella wasn't it. I think Linda was the one with the Burgers.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 01, 2023, 03:11:56 AM
You seem to be again confusing women with puppies, Trench.  This brave woman, even without a leg, will most certainly have many fine suitors among those she served with.

Not saying it's impossible stuff like this can sometimes be random and play to the advantage. A lot of the time though stuff like this can be negative. Moreso if she can't get her hands on a bionic leg, she'll either be stuck on crutches or in a wheelchair and that some can find to be a pain to hang around. If there are fewer men or in Ukraine at the end of this then they will have plenty of women to choose from and that can cause issues. The young guys around her age will tend to be active and want to run around doing this and that. Possibly she might find a Ukrainian guy who has been maimed who knows or possibly feel she doesn't need that either even though she is like that.

The hypergamy scale can work in strange ways. I know of someone who is married to a deaf guy. She was not so pretty looking and didn't attract the guys, he was deaf but apparently attractive looking, not a model but above average looks it seems. However because he was deaf pretty much every woman passed over him. This female didn't as she didn't have many options. They ended up married and had a child together, the child was attractive looking with no deafness issues.

Had the guy not been deaf guess what? He wouldn't have been interested in her he would have likey been playing the field, almost certainly have no problems getting a girl and so on and so forth.

So you see how what you get/what happens to you affects your life chances.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 01, 2023, 03:49:35 AM
Trench,

Other folks are helping them with prostheses without requiring a marriage certificate.  This woman will get a nice one too.

http://www.npr.org/2023/02/07/1153472827/ukrainian-soldiers-benefit-from-u-s-prosthetics-expertise-but-their-war-is-diffe

Maybe consider a donation instead.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 01, 2023, 05:17:36 AM
Ukraine still holds Bakhmut...despite claims to the contrary from the vatniks.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 01, 2023, 05:36:40 AM
I reckon Ukraine will try to hold Bakhmut until their spring counter-offensive starts.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 01, 2023, 10:28:34 AM
I reckon Ukraine will try to hold Bakhmut until their spring counter-offensive starts.

Apparently Russia is/was expected to begin a Spring Offensive so just a question of when/if we see it materialize. Both sides are apparently been getting new tanks so will probably be a case of seeing who opens up an offensive first and where.

The Wagner guy reckons Ukraine is reinforcing Bakhmut with tens of thousands of troops so possibly they may try to push back there. Ukraine government is saying the contrary that they may have to fall back out of the largely destroyed city but that may just be a ruse and I think Russia would be too alert in making the same mistake as before when Ukraine took a large chunk back in the north east of Kharkiv citing they were building up troops in Kherson.

Will have to wait and see if Russia pushes in down from Belarus to Kyiv & Lviv as supposed or whether they might find it more favourable pushing in from the land they already have taken. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia launches an attack in the Zaporizhia region, north westerly as that might be an easier push in for them. Ukrainian troops are apparently along the northern Belarus border and waiting so having reinforced their lines their ready for an attack it might not now be such an easy one for Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 01, 2023, 05:01:28 PM
Trench,

Other folks are helping them with prostheses without requiring a marriage certificate.  This woman will get a nice one too.

http://www.npr.org/2023/02/07/1153472827/ukrainian-soldiers-benefit-from-u-s-prosthetics-expertise-but-their-war-is-diffe

Maybe consider a donation instead.

Good idea BC a donation might help to curry favour with Ukrainian chicks, now I think I've got a spare quid in my pocket I can chip in ;)

I dunno though, think these are probably a handful out of many thousands as the article tells us there are that will get them. I'm guessing without big money going in most will go without and likely just get the old plastic jobs. My guess is that bionic stuff is pretty expensive.

The upside is if they go back in action and get hit again there they need only unbolt their present prosthetic and bolt on a new one ;D

Thing is though as this conflict continues amputees are only likely to increase, on both sides, so I don't see them all getting the good bionic stuff.

For foreigners who have joined up in the Ukrainian army there's the issue that they could loses limb or two and the Ukrainian Army/Government will wash their hands of them. The Ukrainian government like the Russian government is not best known for welfare support, etc. Literally those that went out there to help out would be left on their own most likely. UK guys aren't too bad off as the NHS & welfare state helps out here to sone extent, but there would still likely be a lot of issues that aren't covered by the NHS & welfare state. It's why I wouldn't get involved in any capacity as I don't think you'd find any help in return more it's a harsh world feeling I get the impression.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 03, 2023, 08:25:14 AM
old dude like me


The Ukraine society for the blind.
http://cputos.org.ua/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 03, 2023, 01:00:02 PM
Weekend at Bernie's with the Russian economy
it's dead, but Russians pretend it's alive and carry it around...

so when ALL the russian soverign wealth funds say "paka" next year and close up (and I'm hoping Russians will unload their gold - creating a market dip buy opportunity)
russians gonna need more ruble printing presses, a bunch more in big demoninations
and the more they print, the more they inflate, and the more they inflate, the more they NEED to print and the more they ... well ya'll get the picture, right?
when all oil/gas money disappears - where oligarchs? LOL

it's likely that when you add up workers on furlough, etc, unemployment in Russia is about 12%
and yes, tens of thousands of young Russian men are now dead, any many more disabled
and yes, the US has frozen 300 billion of Russian oil reserves foolishly kept in us banks
and yes, the west has seized another 100 billion in sanctioned assets
and yes Russia will spend down the remainder of their reserves by end of next year
and yes, Russia is in some instances, selling oil at below cost

so what tovarisch?


this money was NEVER EVER gonna be used for the benefit of the Russian people - NEVER!
it is always destined to be fed to oligarchs who give putin a big slice of it
and the few crumbs go to the people as wages - for slaving in an oligarch owned enterprise

only now it goes to the military oligarchs instead ot the real estae ones, pre-war

Deripaska, just declared these facts openly on Russian media
he also noted that he hoped that the outcome wasn't gonna be "State Capitalism" known as marxism/socialism in the USA
one thing all oligarchs USA and Russian fear
is losing their priviliges to the people
that's why they invest so much time and money within oligarch owned media in counter-acting this
and definitely - NO UNIONS!!!! ohhhhh the horror of workers "organizing"

The Grapes of Wrath are gonna be bitter indeed one day, ya'll gonna see...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 03, 2023, 03:24:56 PM
Saw a video from one of the Ukrainian Commanders in the Bakhmut area today,and it looks like the Ukrainians will be pulling out of Bakhmut shortly.


The attrition rate for the orcs has been very high ..6-7 orcs killed for every Ukrainian he said,in some parts as many as 10 to 1...but the Ukrainians in Bakhmut are now in danger of getting encircled,so it's now time to leave,withdraw to another nearby area and start again.


He also said the Ukrainian counter-offensive is expected to take place in mid April.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 04, 2023, 06:02:37 AM


As to the bold text...
Women are not very loyal when things go awry. Yes, a unicorn or two may exist, but overall, women leave military men who have suffered limb loss or disfiguration at an exceedingly high rate. Unbelievably high. Look it up. Of course it's never because they are shallow shits. It's because they are somehow victims who tried so hard but just blahblahblahblah...


Ordinarily i'd agree that women are shallow shits..not just about leaving the aforementioned military men,but in other ways too.The amount of women who leave their formerly wealthy husbands, who are now struggling financially, would be an interesting statistic too.


However,i'm not so sure this will apply in Ukraine .


None of us have been through an invasion of the country where we live.There's a massive difference between a soldier going off to fight in a war no-one really gives a shit about....such as Korea,Vietnam,The Falklands and Iraq.....and having murderous and barbaric  terrorists slaughtering people where you live.


All the Ukrainians saw what happened at Mariupol and Bucha,and the only thing standing between them suffering the same fate is their military who are fighting to save them....do not underestimate how powerful this will be on people's psyche.


If Ukraine wins this war these military people will truly be heroes..exalted beyond compare.....and i suspect their women will be proud to be with them....as the men who saved them and their country.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 04, 2023, 09:35:16 AM
Ancient Chinese proverb:
There is always another surveillance balloon.

Death Mech
graceful machines, like dragonflys
better than any human killer
following the rippled currents
the angry skies filled with them
nothing can stop them
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 04, 2023, 05:22:23 PM
The UK is now doubling the amount of Challenger 2 Tanks being sent to Ukraine....to 28.


Source :www.forbes.com
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 05, 2023, 11:21:00 AM
moy GRU malchiky poisoned Kadyrov
it's the dudes from "KAMERA" they BAD!!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on March 06, 2023, 02:38:46 PM
 Until last year Kyiv was largely a Russian-speaking city. A survey in January revealed that since Putin’s invasion a year ago, 33% of Kyivans have adopted the Ukrainian language. About 46% said they had been speaking Ukrainian for a long time. Another 13% remain Russian speakers.

Ukrainians are bilingual. Ukrainian has traditionally been spoken in the west of the country with Russian more prevalent in the south and east. The most prominent switcher is Volodymyr Zelenskiy, who grew up in the central Russophone metallurgical city of Kryvyi Rih.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/06/russia-ukrainians-embrace-language-war

 I thought some of you might find the article interesting.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2023, 04:48:39 PM
Ukrainians were forced to be bilingual.  But I believe Russian will be replaced with English over time in Ukraine.


Kyiv is not "largely a Russian speaking city".  During Soviet times, relative few in Kyiv would even admit to being able to speak Ukrainian.  Now, if you ask someone something in Ukrainian, you will be responded to in Ukrainian.  I think most people on the streets speak surzhik, not Russian.  At least, that's my experience. 


I believe you are mistaken about language throughout the country.  Before the USSR, Russian Empire cities were islands of Russian speakers in a sea of Ukrainian speakers.  Same in the Austro-Hungarian Empire with Polish.  If you had visited a village in Chernihiv or Kyiv oblasts, you would hear Ukrainian (their own dialect), not Russian.  The reason surzhik developed was as escapees came to the cities, they wanted to blend in, so tried to speak Russian (in their own way). 


A lot of Southern Ukraine was settled by Germans, who spoke their language, had their own schools, churches, etc.  They didn't even learn to read Russian, though most spoke it fluently.  Of course, they were all deported by the Soviets.  The language spoken in rural regions there is not exactly Russian, but closer to Russian than anything else.


In L'viv until the collapse of the USSR, Russian was spoken predominantly.  I thilnk Ternopil was about 50/50, and Ivano Frankivsk was predominantly Ukrainian.  However, Russification meant a lot of Russian words and phrases crept into the language. 


Bottom line - cities in Ukraine tended to be more Russian speaking, villages, Ukrainian, even in Central/Eastern Ukraine.  Moving to Ukrainian exclusively will be a long process.

ETA-From the article, the reference to the earliest destruction of a Ukrainian work of literature appears to be inaccurate. The first Ukrainian language work is widely viewed as Kotlyarevsky’s translation of Eneida, in 1798.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 07, 2023, 05:18:36 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqhtProX0AEwsOV?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 07, 2023, 05:19:54 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqhtPsgWAAMIco8?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 07, 2023, 05:25:20 AM
Yana Rykhiltska a 29 year old Paramedic of the AFU 93rd Brigade died near Bakhmut .She was evacuating the wounded when the car she was in got shelled.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2023, 01:00:47 PM
Ukrainians were forced to be bilingual.  But I believe Russian will be replaced with English over time in Ukraine.

If English became Ukraine's second language to Ukrainian then that would make Ukraine a WM's paradise :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2023, 01:07:15 PM
Not necessarily, particularly not if Ukraine joins the EU.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2023, 05:20:01 PM
Russia using new type of hypersonic missiles in latest missile attack which are a lot more difficult to shoot down:

http://www.npr.org/2023/03/09/1162185287/hypersonic-missiles-ukraine-russia

Many missiles got through.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 09, 2023, 08:58:58 PM
Russia using new type of hypersonic missiles in latest missile attack which are a lot more difficult to shoot down:

http://www.npr.org/2023/03/09/1162185287/hypersonic-missiles-ukraine-russia

Many missiles got through.

12-missile Iskander brigade reportedly sells for as much as $300 million1
That makes them around $25 million each. Yes, they are indeed very difficult to shoot down
but they aren't super accurate2. The latest barrage reportedly killed 6 people 3.
which is terrible for the families involved in the attack and the people without power but how
effective is this, as a military tactic? The vast majority of the approximately 80 missiles4 and
drones surely were not hypersonic.


1. Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/12/17/russias-hypersonic-strike-force-is-mostly-for-show/?sh=e7df41b77669

2.Ibid

3.http://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-kyiv-odesa-kharkiv-40714ec02d628a95458594da6ba8a80e

4.Ibid
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2023, 01:21:47 AM
This is an almost surreal exchange between a Ukrainian and Russian soldier in battle. Note the Russian justifies invasion (age restricted due to language).
 
http://youtu.be/pj64sNXWXXo

Apparently, the Ukrainian was wounded, the Russian killed.

Slava Ukraini.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2023, 03:49:05 AM
12-missile Iskander brigade reportedly sells for as much as $300 million1
That makes them around $25 million each. Yes, they are indeed very difficult to shoot down
but they aren't super accurate2. The latest barrage reportedly killed 6 people 3.
which is terrible for the families involved in the attack and the people without power but how
effective is this, as a military tactic? The vast majority of the approximately 80 missiles4 and
drones surely were not hypersonic.


1. Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/12/17/russias-hypersonic-strike-force-is-mostly-for-show/?sh=e7df41b77669

2.Ibid

3.http://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-kyiv-odesa-kharkiv-40714ec02d628a95458594da6ba8a80e

4.Ibid

Ending up destroying Residential buildings was proven by the Luftwaffe against the UK during WWII to be a poor strategy. Possibly these missiles aren't accurate enough but it can end up with Russia using yet another poor strategy whether entirely intended or not.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on March 11, 2023, 01:48:29 PM
Ending up destroying Residential buildings was proven by the Luftwaffe against the UK during WWII to be a poor strategy. Possibly these missiles aren't accurate enough but it can end up with Russia using yet another poor strategy whether entirely intended or not.

The purpose of the tactic was to get your initial reaction from as
many people as possible, which was:

OH NOES!!!! Russia has super duper weapons impervious to our
silly and weak Western Tech, we should all pee ourselves!!!

If Russia wanted to win they would have sent in a major winter attack and a
couple million Russians would be dead and they would be sitting in Odessa
admiring the Potemkin Stairs with their stolen loot, but they are managing
this more like Russia vs Afghanistan rather than WWII.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 11, 2023, 11:50:47 PM
holy kakashka
a lotta really weird stuff I can't talk about is happening in Russia, but very alarming
my analogy is you hear cracking sounds in the 3 gorges damn

speaking of which
a HUGE massive unparalled slowdown is happening in China
something tells me china ain't even gonna sell a firecracker to russia now

somebody bitch-slapped turkey about being a logistics hub to russia, well duh, look at a map
so that's being reduced, at the end of this year, Turkey will lose the transit fees of Russian gas to south stream as well
turkey's economy is in really bad shape for the usual reasons
combined, this is a big loss to them
dunno what kinda carrot or stick was presented, but somethin sure was



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on March 12, 2023, 01:28:41 AM
I assume with Turkey, there were threats to cut EU funding and generally from the EU and US, pressure, which they can exert, as they account for most of Turkey’s export markets.

Re Russia-alarming to Russia, Ukraine, or the West?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2023, 02:21:08 AM
Turkey is a member of NATO so might have been viewed that they were playing it both ways. On balance I'm guessing Turkey decided to tie the line rather than risk being thrown out of NATO as that could leave them at the mercy of Russia plus weaken it's position in Cyprus.

Other economic factors from the West I don't discount. My guess is that Turkey as a poor country knew the effects could be devastating on its economy so persisted trade with the Russians.

Am I taking it that we might be at the start of fall out at the top in Russia across Russia Krim? I notice that no Spring offensive from Russia as yet been mounted some reports of Russian soldiers refusing to obey their commanders. We've seen all this before back in WWI and know that big fractures and splits can often lead, could be interesting to see.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: BC on March 12, 2023, 06:22:16 AM

 My guess is that Turkey as a poor country knew the effects could be devastating on its economy so persisted trade with the Russians.


I take it you've never been to Turkey? 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2023, 12:12:59 PM
a new season has begun in Russia
fire season

you people in the west have no freakin idea of how to "manage" Russians in some constructive way, and the Russians have even less of an idea, and so we get, what we get
instead of having a cooperative functioning system in equilibrium

too simplistic just to blame Russian oligarchs and not mention deutsche bank and trump towers as well
greed doesn't respect national boundaries

Russia is not just "unstable" right now
it's actively collapsing, every one of Putin's assertions of Russia's economic health, are lies
it's in a rapidly escalating depression, and so are the people, a very deep hole
and while in the hole, Russians are told to "dig", "dig" for the motherland
and so the hole grows deeper by the day
in Russia the tension builds, but Putin blocks it's expression
so it spills out in other places

russians can't stand being laughed at
ya wanna piss 'em off, laugh at 'em, then see what they do
all i'm gonna say

it's all gonna burn
and then you're gonna see smoke on the horizon getting closer and closer to you
slovo

ya'll don't seem to get it...
Russia's coming fall is only the beginning and not the end
all these negative forces create a feeback loop that builds the amplitude

the walls are all
gonna come tumblin down, covid was just one of the bricks and russia to

it's all gonna fall
trump and putin will not survive any more than Qadaffi and Sadam Hussein did
it's all gonna be overwith for them to

as wells as everything and everybody else
man can not stop nature
but watch what nature does to man in the next 20 years and how it causes the world to go mad
and go in a downward spiral, that frankly we're ALREADY IN!!!
but this is just the early beginning stage
what do you think the next stage of this will be like?

of course, I'm crazy, right
a sidewalk schitzo talkin about the world ending
hehehe




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 12, 2023, 12:57:46 PM
On balance I'm guessing Turkey decided to tie the line rather than risk being thrown out of NATO as that could leave them at the mercy of Russia plus weaken it's position in Cyprus.

 My guess is that Turkey as a poor country knew the effects could be devastating on its economy so persisted trade with the Russians.

There is no mechanism to expel a NATO member.  So I don't know where you come up with the nonsense about expelling Turkey from NATO.

I suspect that in the next 10 years, you will see Turkey emerge as the dominant country in the region.  They are not a poor country, and can produce all the food they need, which is more than we can say about Britain.  They have pretty good energy security.  Do not be foolish enough to think that Turkey is somehow a paper tiger or a banana republic.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 13, 2023, 06:47:48 PM

As of December 1  59,786 women served in the Ukrainian army, of whom 18,000 are civilian workers in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 41,000 hold military positions and 5,000 are on the front line.
Tetiana Ostashchenko, the commander of the Medical Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, became the first female general in the Ukrainian army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Ye9gMqLJY

Ukraine's Secret Hero: Ukrainian Hero Woman Single-Handedly Destroyed The Russian Team!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Uh5UoK6mM
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2023, 07:41:10 PM
Putin on the Fritz (a musical written in my bunker - after the first plague but before the second one)

curtain opens
entrance - stage left

solo
Pri-va-tize-ing the eye-pop-ping profits                   ding, ding
shellin ukraine with lots of cold war roc-kets           ding, ding

cash payments to under-cover bos-ses
socializing all the jaw-drop-ping losses
gonna cost us

Putin on the fritz
Putin on the fritz

this is the part I start tap dancing to the staccato kalishnakov orchestra
ahhh das bunker



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2023, 07:53:04 PM
wimmin in the military

in Israel active duty personnel are about 45% female, women are conscripted same as men
israel has the most effective army in the world - this is one reason why

Ted Cruz never served in the military - and frankly never would've made it through basic training so no point in him even trying
Trump family has been in the USA since the 1870s - not one of em EVER served in the military, not one
Tucker Carlson - the frozen food heir - in the military? , are you freakin kidding me?

so the women who ACTUALLY SERVE their country
vrs the men who didn't

and whose voices are the most critical of women in the military?
the ones who served or the ones whose daddy got them draft deferrments MULTIPLE TIMES
and what voices are the ones leading you dumb asses around?

when ya'll start killin madchen und kinder in "total war" by targetting cities
the enemies wimmin folk CAN'T be kept out of the war!!!
cuz YOU just brought the war to THEM

no point in "keepin em safe at home"
after dumb asses blew it up with the neighbor's kids inside
flight or fight baby
and a lot are gonna wanna fight - just like the men

for every reaction - there's a WHAT?
no PERCEIVED reaction = NO counter reaction
best war - invisible secret war done right out in the open uder the enemie's nose
using advanced technology developed by KAMERA in Moscow during the Soviet period - delivery vehicle equal ice cream truck, etc (I will be sellin translated copies of the original Russian docs)

THIS is the freakin way to FIGHT a war MFers
not with billion dollar ships and airplanes and guns all this is archaic waste
cost effective war
is minimal war
the more asymetrical -  the more effective
death by a million cuts, by a billion
the friendly old man in the ice cream truck
he's a trained officer in the enemies chemical warfare 3rd brigade

and all this can be yours for a low introductory price

da  kanyeshnya angliyskiy i russkiy
hehehe whatcha laughin at?

oh, and BTW
the 300 billion USD Russian Federation money sittin in western banks...
guess what's gonna happen to it?




Title: Putin's long narrow path to victory
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2023, 08:52:27 AM
http://www.huffpost.com/entry/ron-desantis-ukraine-war-tucker-carlson_n_64105797e4b0cfde25c1001c

so right away, we see that putin sees a path for 2024
you think you had election interference in 2016, wait...
DeSantis - a hawkish republican is now a pacifist?  how come, holmes?

the only things Russia exports to the USA
hillary's emails,
hunter's laptop
cash to FBI investigators who investigate Russian election interference
cash to politicians who are useful to Russia
oil that has been relabeled as coming from Mexico
anti LGBQT propaganda
and pretty soon what ever they're gonna dream up for 2024 to be shown non-stop on Fox to help DeSantis

yeah, I'm crazy, Fox would never lie on TV or use Russian propaganda, Fox viewers are really smart and wouldn't be so EASILY deceived
LOL

http://www.rawstory.com/santa-rosa-diocese/
BTW, kultur warriors
The Diocese of Santa Rosa in California has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, after being deluged in hundreds of lawsuits over child sexual abuse
so whadda you rednecks do?
ya ban drag shows
pure freakin genuis that is - definititely not afraid to go after actual pedophiles and their tax free investments of bilions and billions
when instead you can go after a guy who wears makeup on a stage like Milton Berle who aren't pedophiles (but are labeled as that by the ministry of propaganda both Russian/American)
and of course, you put more effort to ban books in schools instead of guns
like jeezus intended, am I right?

those of you who are without sin, may cast the first stone at this poor sinner who stands before you
but I got a .45 on my hip, cuz I'm a Texas Redneck and I'll gun you down so fast you won't even know you're dead
and for an old dewd I got REALLY good reflexes cuz I play ping-pong every freakin day
and it's really hard to find people who can play a game at my top level

PS
THAT is some good sheeet I brought in from Costa Rica, coulda sold it to blatnoys in moskva for some pretty gold coins that I could stack
but that's all over with - what are moscva dopers gonna do? local brewed krokodil suka? add that to the total russian death toll of Putin's phuquing stoopidity


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2023, 11:17:34 AM
Notice the Russians lost a fair few of their newer M90 tanks the other day, about 15 or so I think it was and a good thousand or so troops with it. Today Ukrainians apparently managed to destroy a number of Cruise missiles based in Crimea. So the Ukrainians still getting some good victories in but any big change so far elusive.

Spring is now here so either side could mount an offensive, the Ukrainians now having western tanks with more on the way and the Russians having conscripted more troops. Neither side has made a move as yet if they are able to and intense fighting remains around Bakhmut with neither side wanting to give in there.

Yesterday the US announced it would speed up sending its Abrams tanks to Ukraine and I think the EU or its member states also agreed to send more ammo and stuff quickly. Possibly this might be a sign of concern in the West over whether the Ukrainian Army might start to buckle over constant Russian fighting. That's unfortunately one potential issue Ukraine has that it has a smaller population than Russia. Out of that population only so many may be minded to fight. On facing a call up and envisaging a meat grinder situation many a Ukrainian guy might think better of turning up and do a runner for the border. After all not all will see a great future in being put into the meat grinder and would rather go for a life elsewhere, I wouldn't blame them on that. Let's face it Ukraine's government has never been that great to its people (endemic corruption, etc) and can let down it's poorest people. So imagining a guy that doesn't have a lot going for him in Ukraine then I could see why he wouldn't want to bother with all the war stuff.

So for Ukraine they are possibly up against the clock on defeating Russia. For Russia if they keep doing poorly and expending cast effort doing so then internal issues may end the war early for them. Coming weeks and months could be quite telling possibly.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 27, 2023, 12:29:09 PM
British Challenger,USA Stryker and Cougar and German Marder are now in Ukraine.


Source :Ukraine MOD.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsPtaMWX0AEv7Df?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: China's game plan
Post by: ML on March 27, 2023, 12:59:28 PM
I suspect China's game plan is to let Russia and the West expend a lot of equipment/materials.

No matter which wins, China will be in a stronger position worldwide.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2023, 01:08:57 PM
the armour is GREAT!!!
but WAIT, there's MORE!!!

I'm sure you've all seen the numerous videos of larger hobbyist FPV drones dropping small bombs on Russian units.

well...
the next stage of this which is being produced RIGHT NOW
is Roy Dronov...
nope, not some dewds name, it means "Drone Swarm"

imagine 100 drones coming at a target at once, and not just a single drone
each individual drone targets using a distributed AI system combined with individual operators
the USA has delivered a MASSIVE coup, by nearly cornering the supply of these high end drone components mfg in Chi-nuh , enough to build 100,000 drones!!!
and did so secretly without the chinese even knowing who the buyer was and its destination
once you hear about the results of the first 100 drone swarm, and I'm waiting for the video!
then get ready for the first 1,000 drone swarm

The Ballad of the Ukrainian Suicide Drone

suicide dronesssss from the sky
fearless dronesssss who fly and die
drones that meannnn just what they say
they gonna blowwww your ass off today

if you tweaked "Battle hym of the republic" to reflect a Ukrainian context
and translated it into Ukrainian
and had a TOP choir sing it in front of a Ukrainian audience....

My eyes have seen the glory of the rising of Ukraine
....
his truth is marching on
slava, slava u-kra-i-nia
slava, slava u-krai-n-ia

I don't know about ya'll, but I think it "works"

what about, "Are you go-ing to Sev-a-sto-pol"?

If you're going to Sev-a-sto-pol
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you're going to Sev-a-sto-pol
You're gonna meet some gentle people there

ehhhhh, I dunno...


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2023, 02:21:24 PM
There have now been 2000 confirmed Russian orc Officers killed in Ukraine since 24th February 2022.


Based on publicly available data from Russia.Confirmations are made via funeral notices,obituaries and news sites.




Source :  KIU .  Russian Officers killed in Ukraine@KilledInUkraine


The military destruction of Russia continues. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2023, 06:33:07 AM
According to this latest report a Spring Counter-offensive on either side is looking unlikely:

http://www.euronews.com/2023/04/13/analysts-say-ukraine-counter-offensive-unlikely-unless-more-combat-vehicles-supplied

Kind of what I've been thinking in recent days, Ukraine now has some modern tanks from the west, mainly the UK Challenger tanks at the moment but no news of their use as yet. Odds are with the equipment on the Russian side and then digging in their at the moment the modern Western taks have become more of a hold the line equipment.

Whether anything will change as Ukraine gets more Leopard tanks and if they get the equipment in the article who knows. Both sides seem to be locked in a military resources battle at the moment and who can bring the most to the fore.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2023, 12:56:34 PM
Looks like this guy may not see the light of day for quite some time:

http://www.euronews.com/2023/04/13/us-close-to-finding-ukraine-war-document-leaker-says-biden
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 13, 2023, 01:16:57 PM
According to this latest report a Spring Counter-offensive on either side is looking unlikely:

http://www.euronews.com/2023/04/13/analysts-say-ukraine-counter-offensive-unlikely-unless-more-combat-vehicles-supplied (http://www.euronews.com/2023/04/13/analysts-say-ukraine-counter-offensive-unlikely-unless-more-combat-vehicles-supplied)

Kind of what I've been thinking in recent days, Ukraine now has some modern tanks from the west, mainly the UK Challenger tanks at the moment but no news of their use as yet. Odds are with the equipment on the Russian side and then digging in their at the moment the modern Western taks have become more of a hold the line equipment.

Whether anything will change as Ukraine gets more Leopard tanks and if they get the equipment in the article who knows. Both sides seem to be locked in a military resources battle at the moment and who can bring the most to the fore.


If Ukraine is getting similar weather to the UK there will be no chance of a spring offensive.


Where i live we're getting a day or two of sunshine,with temperatures oif between 10 -13 C followed by a deluge of rain the next day,which is leaving the ground sodden with swampy conditions in the fields.


Not the ground for driving Tanks and APC's on...they'll get stuck in the mud.


There were videos going round on the internet at the end of last week showing Ukrainian soldiers wading through above ankle deep water in their trenches.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2023, 02:02:03 PM

If Ukraine is getting similar weather to the UK there will be no chance of a spring offensive.


Where i live we're getting a day or two of sunshine,with temperatures oif between 10 -13 C followed by a deluge of rain the next day,which is leaving the ground sodden with swampy conditions in the fields.


Not the ground for driving Tanks and APC's on...they'll get stuck in the mud.


There were videos going round on the internet at the end of last week showing Ukrainian soldiers wading through above ankle deep water in their trenches.

Yeah heard the situation is looking a lot like the WWI trenches out there which sounds bizarre considering how far we have advanced tech wise from those days. That's not a situation I would wish on others or wish to be in.

I think you're right CB that the weather conditions don't favour a counter offensive at the moment either plus with the Russians digging in it's going to be a case of lining up the right factors coming together if possible for a counter offensive. At the moment it's looking like it will take a bit longer and more trying to find a moment in which to strike effectively.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 13, 2023, 02:12:17 PM
We live in incredibly stupid times.
wot a silly wanker that airman wuz
no tradecraft skillz whatsoever
less than an amateur, barely qualifies as an idiot

now EVERYBODY with a clearance is gonna get "the lecture"
poor workin stiffs

yeah, looks like only a narrow window from the spring rains until the beginning of
"all the children are INSANE... ...waiting for the summer rain"  which is usually in early june for south ukraine

april showers bring may flowers and THEN the pilgrims start marchin to cut the northern supply line to krim
if they time it right, they get in before the summer rain makes it harder for russians to launch a counter-offensive

war and comedy
all about the timing
it's why zelensky is SO good
first comedian commander-in-chief
knows 10 "knock knock" jokes for every one that putin does
AND is a talented dancer to boot
putin can barely play the piano and poorly sing blueberry hill

zelensky towers over putin in SO MANY ways

russians are so far behind in everything
russian leadership compensate by accepting massive losses

but...
as the last mobilization showed
for every soldier mobilized two young educated russians left the country and economy
russian gov. responded by eliminating child labor laws
and raising the retirement age as well as reducing pension amount , to help pad the workforce
therefor, there will not be open mobilization plans
but closed ones, stealth ones, secret ones

worker's paradise LMFAO!!!
the economy is russia's 2nd front
and they're doing just as badly
as they are in Ukraine

look at Russia 1914-1917
we're at the 1915 stage now
two years from now, there will be lots of "interesting events" in Russia

there are no new "shows" in Russia
everything is a sequel or a re-run

fer instance,
in 1990 the Soviet Union admitted that Soviet Union carried out Katyn massacre. There are public images of  Soviet documents with Stalin personally approving the murder of 22,000 Poles.
Russians blamed it on the Nazis. They lied, of course
in the current sequel, Russians still commit attrocities and blame it on Nazis...
same ole same ole



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2023, 06:22:43 PM
Kind of terrible times, that so many face such awful fates. I know I brought up the whole number of troops killed stuff, my mind just can help but turn over the factual stuff but when you think of it, it's a pretty miserable situation for all those dragged into the situation, I feel kind of bad it's come about to this.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 14, 2023, 05:21:34 AM
Watched Stacey Dooley Ready for war ? on BBC  iplayer last night,it's also available on BBC Three.


It's about the Ukrainian recruits coming over to the UK for five weeks training before going back to fight the orcs,and follows them through their training.


Some nice moments.but generally sad seeing these guys who were florists,welders and jewellers giving up everything to go and protect their country and families.


The first question they all get asked at the recruitment centres in Ukraine is "Are you ready to die to protect your country " ? and they all shouted "yes".



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 14, 2023, 01:29:59 PM
I KNOW what the Russians are "working on" to win the war in Ukraine
and when they do it, it's gonna be one of the darkest days in American history

i see the constellation of dots
and what emerges when you draw the lines between them

a chain is only as strong as the weakest link
and that's where you try and cut the chain
and NOT where it's strongest (like in Ukraine)
therefor, Russia will not win the war on the battlefield

instead, they will do it with two GRU agents in Washington DC
who will be at the right place and the right time
and with just a little pinprick do in a few seconds
what the entire russian army failed to do in over a year
and this day of infamy
leads to a massive avalanche of "unfortunate events
that leads to a cascading collapse in Ukraine, after the military supplies are stopped
and huge turmoil within the USA to the point of a civil war
that all began with just a little jab

and that's all i'm gonna say about that
authorities question me, I'm gonna be like Sgt Schultz, "I know NOTHING"
and if ya'll think otherwise, well why don't ya prove it then LOL
yeah, maybe it was just a lucky guess on my part

I will tell ya'll just one detail, it'll be called "The Oktober Surprize"
this name REALLY resonates with Russians

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 15, 2023, 05:57:31 AM
The amount of  Russian orc officers confirmed as killed in Ukraine since 24/2/22 had risen to 2,055 by 13/4/23.


There have now been 10,000 pieces of Russian orc heavy military equipment visually confirmed as destroyed in Ukraine since 24/2/22. ( photo's,videos,satellite images and drone footage )


The destruction of the Russian orc military continues  >:D 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 15, 2023, 07:45:34 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4/14/2163936/-Quick-Explainer-Why-can-t-Russia-produce-new-weapon-systems

a simple explanation of the structural problems of the russian military-industrial complex
and why it's only gonna get worse

a lotta stuff is "converging" towards some future transition in the world
china and russia are in big trouble
but the truth is we ALL are

Wuhan Shuokang Biological Technology
has killed more young  Americans than the japanese and nazis did in WWII (and still is on a daily basis - couple of hundred per day)
THIS is how ythe chinese do asymetrical warfare
a kinda jujitsu where you use minimum force, and use the enemy's own moves and efforts against them

Russia hacking hillary's emails, and bribing the FBI to slander her to get Trump elected is another example of this and demonstrates how ridiculously efficient it is
as opposed to launching a conventional war

a profoundly subtle approach
maximizes gain for a small expenditure
use the gains from one effort, to create new ones
while you smile politely in public and deny everything with disinformation channels you create

I was able to trick chatgpt4 into generating complete step-by-step guides for doing this
russians already know about this
expect MUCH more clever hacks and attacks in the near future that were planned by an AMERICAN AI!!

oh, and one more thing, the GRU will use usa citizens  to perform certain tasks, like they did with Oswald

see, there's the world above, that ya'll can see
and then there's the world below
that only people "like me" can see

hehe, i'm crazy, you can't put any faith in my ramblings, right?
whatcha laughin at?


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 16, 2023, 07:35:45 PM
Currently good exchange rates can be had on the UAH, best ever really. One GBP now buys approx. 45.65 UAH, so up a good 10 UAH from what we used to get in peacetime. Of course getting to Ukraine not as easy as it used to be.

Looks like the same for the USD to UAH as well, looks like both jumped against the UAH about the same time a number of months ago. Not sure if this was due to devaluation in Ukraine, war, etc.

Possible sign that the economy in Ukraine is not doing so well but then again neither it is in Russia either. Both unfortunately for the people taking a hammering from it all.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2023, 06:40:37 PM
the Ukraine war will be one of the political "hot button" issues in the 2024 USA election

USA oligarchs are gonna get Robert Kennedy Jr to run as a 3rd party "spoiler candidate" against the democrats in 2024 to help Trump win AGAIN

Russians will generously assist with the disinformation campaign, Musk has already invited them back to twitter
Russians will check polling, if it's in their favor, then just "let that bet ride"
if it's NOT in their favor...
well, that's when things "get interesting"
and instead of "adding" things to help Trump
they'll "subtract" things instead
end result, Trump wins, Russia wins

if ya'll look at my old posts in the past, I told ya EXACTLY when Russia would invade Ukraine
and the same method I used to figure out the invasion date
is the same one I used to figure out the future "special election" of Donald J Trump

secret service -- don't shoot the messenger when this happens
just remember who tipped you about Blue Orchid
and all the promotions ya got for that
another opportunity for ya to shine against the Russians will be handed to ya next yr
IF you're up to the task...
and if you're not...
then we're all gonna be deeply phuqued!!

bon chance!

the cuban missile crisis led to Dealy Plaza
the Ukrainian war will as well
changing America forever

a place where there is no more "Leave it to Beaver" vibe
America in the future will be more like Hogan's Heroes, but without the German accents
word dawg!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 22, 2023, 04:00:19 AM
Prigozhin reported yesterday that there is a "monstrous slush" in Ukraine that even pick-ups can not normally pass through the fields,and adds that the soil still needs around ten days to dry.


Meanwhile at least 2,085 Russian orc officers have now been confirmed  killed in Ukraine  since 24/2/22, as at 21/4/23.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 22, 2023, 04:53:39 PM
can you imagine a "Dunkirk" like scenario
but instead of little British sailboats retreating
it's EVERY tractor in Ukraine crossing no-man's land pulling wagons and they're all in 3rd gear with the pedal to the medal bearing down on Russians

photographed in wide-screen
and set to the score of "Flight of the Valkyries"







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2023, 11:45:35 AM
At the moment Ukraine is still losing ground in Bakhmut with the Russians apparently taking three more districts in the last day or so. Apparently reports are that Ukraine is calling up more men and reserves to Bakhmut and quickly training them presumably to try and hold the line. My guess is that Ukraine has been suffering badly from the fighting in Bakhmut too and is likely seeing heavy losses also now.

As yet no sign of the use of either Challenger or Leopard tanks at the front, let's hope they haven't already been sold on with sone rich Ukrainian jetting off into the sunset money made lol.

Recent report on the Leopard tanks being sent to Ukraine situation:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/04/22/more-leopard-2-tanks-are-bound-for-ukraine-as-kyiv-makes-long-term-plans-for-its-armored-battalions/

Looks like they are not necessarily getting them all at once and for some it may take time. Even then the combined Leopard/Challenger force will only be around 100 tanks with possibly some Abram's at some point adding to the number. So at the moment way short of the 300 that Ukraine's top brass said they needed to push matters the other way.

I'm guessing they might help to hold the line but I'm still not sure if those tanks in itself will be a game changer for Ukraine. That said it looks like it's going to be a long old slog for the Russians, they look set up for a blow up one city move onto the next strategy, a hard, slow and brutally painful way to conduct war. Still shocks me that they didn't even bother to try to get some forces down along Ukraine's western border in the early stages of the war, it would have been almost certainly almost wide open with little resistance. Would have finished and won this war for Russia real quickly, Ukraine wouldn't have been able to get in ammo and armaments from the west and cities could have been running short of food, a few months tops and they would have been done for. Luckily I guess for Ukraine that Putler & his Generals were so stupid but unfortunately Ukraine has all this to endure now. I support Ukraine but it just still amazes me how stupid & incompetent Russia was in its strategy, just absolute fools.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2023, 02:40:56 PM
Ukraine forces have apparently crossed the Dnipro river around Kherson. A bit of an unusual move as would not generally be thought the best place to advance since having a river stuck behind you isn't usually a great idea and Russian forces had apparently been digging in.

My thoughts are that it is most likely a ruse to draw Russian attention away to allow for a easier counter-attack situation elsewhere. The forces that have crossed the Dnipro seem small in number at the moment and some haven't fully crossed the river but are on inlets as the river divides before emptying out into the Black Sea.

Anyhow, looks like the Ukrainian forces are finally up for initiating a Counter-offensive. Will just have to see when are where they fully move in.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 24, 2023, 02:54:38 PM
At the moment Ukraine is still losing ground in Bakhmut with the Russians apparently taking three more districts in the last day or so. Apparently reports are that Ukraine is calling up more men and reserves to Bakhmut and quickly training them presumably to try and hold the line. My guess is that Ukraine has been suffering badly from the fighting in Bakhmut too and is likely seeing heavy losses also now.

As yet no sign of the use of either Challenger or Leopard tanks at the front, let's hope they haven't already been sold on with sone rich Ukrainian jetting off into the sunset money made lol.

Recent report on the Leopard tanks being sent to Ukraine situation:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/04/22/more-leopard-2-tanks-are-bound-for-ukraine-as-kyiv-makes-long-term-plans-for-its-armored-battalions/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/04/22/more-leopard-2-tanks-are-bound-for-ukraine-as-kyiv-makes-long-term-plans-for-its-armored-battalions/)

Looks like they are not necessarily getting them all at once and for some it may take time. Even then the combined Leopard/Challenger force will only be around 100 tanks with possibly some Abram's at some point adding to the number. So at the moment way short of the 300 that Ukraine's top brass said they needed to push matters the other way.

I'm guessing they might help to hold the line but I'm still not sure if those tanks in itself will be a game changer for Ukraine. That said it looks like it's going to be a long old slog for the Russians, they look set up for a blow up one city move onto the next strategy, a hard, slow and brutally painful way to conduct war. Still shocks me that they didn't even bother to try to get some forces down along Ukraine's western border in the early stages of the war, it would have been almost certainly almost wide open with little resistance. Would have finished and won this war for Russia real quickly, Ukraine wouldn't have been able to get in ammo and armaments from the west and cities could have been running short of food, a few months tops and they would have been done for. Luckily I guess for Ukraine that Putler & his Generals were so stupid but unfortunately Ukraine has all this to endure now. I support Ukraine but it just still amazes me how stupid & incompetent Russia was in its strategy, just absolute fools.


Prigozhin says the west has donated 230 Tanks to Ukraine..Whether that figure includes the yet to arrive Abrams from the USA he didn't specify.


He said the west has also donated 1,500 other armoured vehicles.


Russian channels are reporting a big build-up of Ukrainian forces at Zaporizhia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2023, 04:10:34 PM

Prigozhin says the west has donated 230 Tanks to Ukraine..Whether that figure includes the yet to arrive Abrams from the USA he didn't specify.


He said the west has also donated 1,500 other armoured vehicles.


Russian channels are reporting a big build-up of Ukrainian forces at Zaporizhia.

That would figure, I always thought that is the more likely and easier route for Ukraine to strike, likely down through Zaporizhia to Melitopol & on to Crimea and/or Mariupol. Kherson region again just being used as a ruse to deflect attention.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 25, 2023, 04:16:02 AM
Interesting report from the Institute for the Study of War ( ISW ) today.


According to analysts ,Russian occupiers continued their ground attacks in Bakhmut and it's surroundings ,but over the past two days they have not achieved any territorial gains.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2023, 08:45:50 AM
you don't use tanks to fight in a swamp
you use infantry
the Ukrainians are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Russians
they're sending their top soldiers in small units across the Dnipro, only takes a couple of inflatable rafts at night to ferry them and supply them
on the left side of the Dnipro, they have artillery and Hi-MARS
Russians attack the forward Ukrainian positions, and get hit by artillery and the Ukrainian defenders (best troops+best weapons)  the Germans in WWII called this the "Swerepunkt" the "Spear Point"
once the Ukrainian Spear Points establish a position and hold it
they'll then launch another group to do the same
and another... and another...
this is what the beginning of the Ukrainian southern offensive is gonna look like
a swamp war

meanwhile a Ukrainian drone over Red Square
http://t.me/Pravda_Gerashchenko/69587

a few days ago a Ukrainian torpedo drone hit a Russian ship in Sevastopol, limited info as to damage


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2023, 04:32:05 PM
you don't use tanks to fight in a swamp
you use infantry
the Ukrainians are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Russians
they're sending their top soldiers in small units across the Dnipro, only takes a couple of inflatable rafts at night to ferry them and supply them
on the left side of the Dnipro, they have artillery and Hi-MARS
Russians attack the forward Ukrainian positions, and get hit by artillery and the Ukrainian defenders (best troops+best weapons)  the Germans in WWII called this the "Swerepunkt" the "Spear Point"
once the Ukrainian Spear Points establish a position and hold it
they'll then launch another group to do the same
and another... and another...
this is what the beginning of the Ukrainian southern offensive is gonna look like
a swamp war

meanwhile a Ukrainian drone over Red Square
http://t.me/Pravda_Gerashchenko/69587

a few days ago a Ukrainian torpedo drone hit a Russian ship in Sevastopol, limited info as to damage

Wouldn't the Russians be doing the same, hitting them with artillery where they are now having just crossed the river?

While it's great to see Ukrainians making an effort I'm not sure I'm convinced they can mount an attack this way. My thoughts are that it could be more to hold Russian units down in Kherson region to avoid them moving troops up to Zaporizhia region.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2023, 05:23:52 PM
the difference is Ukrainians know where  to attack, where Russian artillery is at it's weakest, and Ukrainians can pre-position their artillery to cover the attack
Russians would have to shift their artillery closer to the attack zone, this gives Ukraine an opportunity to attack Russian artillery using HI-MARS, when it's being transported and vulnerable, if the Russian artillery can't be suppressed then the Ukrainian special forces can withdraw, either way will leave a bunch of Russian casualties

long term, Russia has no military solution to achieve victory in Ukraine, at best they can TRY to hold on to MOST of the territory they've stolen
Russia's solution to winning, is to try and break the support chain (this is BY FAR the weakest link)
picture what would've happened to Britain, if all the support from the USA was cut-off in 1940

this solution will start to produce an escalation of asymetrical war against the West DIRECTLY
such as destroying the $30 million Reaper drone over the Black Sea a few weeks ago
this will lead to sabotaging western undersea cables, and other easily sabotaged items like oil and gas pipelines, shipping, etc

they want to raise the West's public's perception of a war risk, by actually starting a low-level asymetrical war with the West
this war fear will then be used by pro-Russian political candidates next year
and the rest I can't tell ya, cuz I don't want the FEDS knocking on my door again
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 26, 2023, 11:20:21 AM
http://euromaidanpress.com/2023/04/25/frontline-update-ukraine-establishes-20-km-wide-bridgehead-on-dnipros-eastern-bank/?swcfpc=1

the proof is in the pudding
this is the start of the Ukrainian "offensive"

the Russian "defense line" is too long (800 km)
thins out their equipment to the point that it creates gaps (especially after losing half of it, and the best half at that)
gaps create opportunities for Ukraine

the Teixeira leak mentions

"and what kinds of satellite imagery the United States uses to track Russian forces, including an advanced technology that appears barely, if ever, to have been publicly identified."

but this system is SO SECRET, Teixeira didn't have much actual info, other than how important it is

it has "God-Like" AI power
can identify and track every russian tank, truck, canon, even individuals over a wide area
calculates logisitc requirements and tracks shipments and movements of Russian units
knows WAY more what the Russians are doing than the Russians

a robotnick monstor that calls out the names of Russian soldiers who are to die
Skynet Ukrainia

ain't no Russian John Conner
ya'll phuqued
slovo!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2023, 07:38:56 AM
Russia has just now blocked the grain corridor
prohibiting Ukrainian grain from leaving Ukrainian ports

Russia WANTS the US Navy to step in
and protect vessels leaving black sea ports
cuz they're planning for accidents to happen to the US Navy

a-and the reason Russ-see-ya is blaming Biden for the North Stream pipeline explosion
is cuz pretty soon they're gonna do the same to western pipelines
and they'll ties these events together

coulda used Tucker Carlson for this
Russians are VERY unhappy about losing Tucker

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2023, 02:36:35 PM
The Russian spacecraft, called Kosmos-2558, was launched into the same orbital plane as the US satellite, called USA-326

satellite vrs satellite
USA-326 is the USA's Ukrainian observation satellite

Russia is gonna up-end the scenario where the west's only involvment is to be the arsenal of democracy for Ukraine
they gonna start "wacking" western things soon
to raise the ante
hoping at some point, the west is gonna fold


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2023, 10:23:38 AM
Highlights of the First Ukrainian Matchbook Brigade of the Ukrainian People's Militia scorecard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Russian_mystery_fires
overall, 200 mystery fires in Russland in the first 3 months of 2023, above are the highlights
RESISTANCE IS NOT FUTILE!!

'dis here is my "laser matchbook" made from an old scavenged Laser Hair Removal Unit
150 watt invisible infrared output diode laser minus the collimator, heatsink and low power IR spotting laser
originally intended for zapping sniper's eyeballs (scope optics make it even worse!)
but then found out how much fun it can be starting fires miles away
runs off a 12V car battery and power inverter
so many fun uses in Russia

with this tool you can be "The Johny Appleseed of Arson"
I love technology!
but regular 'ole matchbook and Zigarette works fine as well

za mir ludie!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2023, 12:14:20 PM
the difference is Ukrainians know where  to attack, where Russian artillery is at it's weakest, and Ukrainians can pre-position their artillery to cover the attack
Russians would have to shift their artillery closer to the attack zone, this gives Ukraine an opportunity to attack Russian artillery using HI-MARS, when it's being transported and vulnerable, if the Russian artillery can't be suppressed then the Ukrainian special forces can withdraw, either way will leave a bunch of Russian casualties

long term, Russia has no military solution to achieve victory in Ukraine, at best they can TRY to hold on to MOST of the territory they've stolen
Russia's solution to winning, is to try and break the support chain (this is BY FAR the weakest link)
picture what would've happened to Britain, if all the support from the USA was cut-off in 1940

this solution will start to produce an escalation of asymetrical war against the West DIRECTLY
such as destroying the $30 million Reaper drone over the Black Sea a few weeks ago
this will lead to sabotaging western undersea cables, and other easily sabotaged items like oil and gas pipelines, shipping, etc

they want to raise the West's public's perception of a war risk, by actually starting a low-level asymetrical war with the West
this war fear will then be used by pro-Russian political candidates next year
and the rest I can't tell ya, cuz I don't want the FEDS knocking on my door again

Would be interesting to see, this article out today seems to think much the same as I thought that the Kherson crossings are more of a diversion attempt or at least to hold Russian units down while the main counter offensive happens elsewhere:

http://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230428-a-small-step-across-the-dnipro-river-a-giant-leap-for-ukraine-s-counteroffensive
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2023, 12:19:59 PM

the Teixeira leak mentions

"and what kinds of satellite imagery the United States uses to track Russian forces, including an advanced technology that appears barely, if ever, to have been publicly identified."

but this system is SO SECRET, Teixeira didn't have much actual info, other than how important it is

it has "God-Like" AI power
can identify and track every russian tank, truck, canon, even individuals over a wide area
calculates logisitc requirements and tracks shipments and movements of Russian units
knows WAY more what the Russians are doing than the Russians


I can imagine the US government/military are very upset and angry at that young guy. My guess is that they are so peeved at him he's likely to get the full 20 years if he's ever seen from again. All down to an over his ego getting over excited online. Probably forgot the real gravity of what he was doing in the process. That type of stuff isn't really the type of stuff you want your enemy to have the heads up on.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2023, 12:42:03 PM
where I used to live in Sevastopol was just outside the "broken window" radius of the drone torpedo attack a few days ago...
Russians who live near "downtown" should put some duct tape in "X" shape over all the windows

I'd imagine that in the next month or so, "the bridge" is gonna get hit again...

Russians are lookin for low-hanging exploits against the west and the west has a problem with "escalation" so that's just encouraging Russians
in my most drug-fueled fantasy, President Biden calls me up, and appoints me as a startegic planner for disruption of Russian military and civilian infrastructure, sheeeeettt, I'd do it for free!!
I'd start out with the pipelines and refinery products going to asia, and move on from there
but so far, my phone is silent
c'mon Dark Brandon, pick me, put me in, I'm ready to play

yeah, media has already tied the success/failure of the Ukrainian offensive to future funding
so this ain't gonna be "no foolin around"
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 29, 2023, 04:55:48 AM
The Russian oil depot at Sevastopol was hit by Ukrainian drones overnight.


In other news the Russian orc officers confirmed death toll in Ukraine  since 24/2/22 has risen to 2,111 as at 27/4/23.






(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fu3Mz7gXwAAeDyl?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2023, 07:10:52 AM
dawg, there goes 40,000 tons of fuel oil for the Black Sea baby killin cruise missile launchers (combine that with drone torpedo a few days ago)
Russia gonna have to replace that by sending a tanker (which'll be it's own storage)
hope nothin happens to it

Kozacha Bay is loaded with all kinds of military facilities, now they got "black lung" occupational hazard to match their souls

nice video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDhX6GXhVTs

the fire was started by a single drone, two others were intercepted
deze drones be like little V-1 Buzz-Bombs
V-1 pulsejet was pure genuis, easily made from sheet metal, and only had one moving part!
but too loud!!

I'm scanning Telegram to see if Russian photos are posted of one of the intercepted drones
so I can figure out it's range and determine launch point
land or sea based launch?

what would be "totally rad" is to put a quadropter drone on top of a torpedo drone
and as it gets close to the shore have it take off, you can add more payload by needing less battery

the dewds making "narco" submarines by hand in Columbia are freakin amazing
Ukraine should copy their design
a very sophisticated design using graphite fiber to make it radar stealthy
park it in a "sea lane"
and wait for Russian vessels to pass by
either sink it, or hide in its wake all the way into Sevastopol
please don't hurt de dolphins, spossiba!

the torpedo drone shown below, unfortunately has a very visible signature on night vision, mainly due to the waves it creates from it's speed
but this is only the first generation

PS
Ukraine, why ain't ya'll farrady shielding your drones?
Russians are real good at big beefy Xmitters, been makin 'em for decades...
as you well know...


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 29, 2023, 12:05:40 PM
Defenders of Donbas is worth a watch...it's on BBC News.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2023, 07:35:00 AM
here be a short russki video of one of dem Ukrainian drones that aimed for the clouds but hit Sevastopol
seems to have launched from Odesa

pretty sure Russia will launch a retaliation strike at Odesa in the coming days, apartments in Moldavanka most likely target

no faraday shielding on drones, c'mon guys...

was the American reaper drone downed by Russians in the black sea couple of weeks ago gettin radar sigs of Kozacha Bay?

l'il mini Putin and Gitler both made same mistake with their "V-weapons"
coulda used them against allied invasion forces preparing to launch Normandy invasion
but instead wasted them on civilians to promote terror and vengeance
history repeats or it least rhymes

l
http://twitter.com/i/status/1652228785104617472

this asymetrical warfare reminds me a lot of the British "Cockleshell Heroes" from the Great Patriotic War
BTW, Russia has put all their Cruise missile launching ships in port

take a limpit
and pimp it
then stick-it

PS
USA is doing a lot of nuclear preparation drills
we have a big one one this week in Houston (first we've ever had since cuban missile crisis)
I already haz iodine tabs and bunker
i'm sure it's nothin to worry 'bout, totally routine, nothin to see here (checks radiation meter)


a few yrs from now, I'm gonna build a new house in a northen climate zone
this time I'm gonna build a HUGE underground bunker complex
with smaller structure above
not only have a ready made delux bunker
but will fool tax authorities
cuz 75% of space will be invisble below ground
and I'll save HUGE on taxes
also lookin at livin' totally off-grid

gettin ready for the future that's creepin towards us

Title: future of world democracy will be decided in Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2023, 04:44:46 PM
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/counteroffensive-ukraine-zelensky-crimea/673781/

Dear Ukraine, don't trust Palintir, Peter Thiel was in Russia a few weeks ago

I'd so much love to be workin in one of those weapons shops....

I feel like the French did waiting for D-Day
listening to the coded messages on the radio
waiting for the announcement

viva la France
slava Ukrainia

whole freaking civilized world is watching you and putting their hopes on you
I'm hoping you kick putin's malenky jhoppa
and your maidan happens here in the USA one day
or at least the level of democracy we have here increases and matches what Ukrainian people have
my wife voted in 2006 Orange Revolution, I was blown away by Ukraine's highly democratic voting process compared to USA's
no more voter suppression, gerrymandering to benefit "status quo"

I love the smell of DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM in the morning!
smells like VICTORY!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 01, 2023, 05:44:33 PM
I was in  Ukraine for the 'second election'  in 2004.

Know why there was a 2nd election ???
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2023, 06:56:04 PM
oops.. misremembered the date, you're right 2004 and not 2006

Tak! of course I know, cuz a Putin loving fascist candidate used electoral fraud to steal the election in Ukraine
does that sound vaguely familiar to you?
like Jan 6, when another Putin lovin' fascist presidential candidate tried the same thing,  what a weird coincidence (or was it?)


contrast the voter suppression tactics in poor minority areas in the USA where people have to wait for hours standing in the cold to vote (during a pandemic, illegal to hand out water)
unlike where I live in a wealthy white enclave, where I never have to wait at all, cuz there isn't even a line, supprised we don't have a  cappuccino/espresso machine
look how hard it is to vote by mail here in the USA
look how the Trump appointed head of the Post Office slowed down the mail to favor Trump during the election
and on and on and on....

and then contrast USA voting to voting in Ukraine,
towards the end of the election cycle in Ukraine, if the voting records show you haven't voted, then the poll workers show up at your door to help you fill out the ballot
so yeah, Ukrainian voting process is light years ahead of the USA, and that from a poor former communist country with little experience running a democracy

and the point you tried to make failed miserably, just like Fox news supporting the Jan 6, coup
so are ya gonna vote for Trump again next year?  not enogh kool-aid for ya? need s'more?

Trump totally mismanaged EVERYTHING, which has tanked the economy, his administration is responsible for $7.8 trillion of the national debt
and the last year of his presidency, is the ONLY YEAR in US history in the last 400 years, where the white population DECLINED in the USA
I wonder how that poulation decline and $7.8 trillion added debt could possibly be in "your interest"

unless your "interests" are supporting white supremecy and homophobia against the LGBTQ community and all the other noble causes Republicans believe in

you should read some on Dietrich Bonhoeffer, there's even a film about him I think on Amazon Prime.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German theologian and anti-Nazi dissident who was executed in Germany in 1945.  He would be appalled at today's christo-fascists like the Huckabees ...

Bonhoeffer’s theory of stupidity is rooted in his belief that there are two types of people in the world: those who think and those who don't, he believed that it was not evil people who were the greatest danger to society- it was stupid people.
Stupid people, are often driven by a mix of selfishness, laziness, and ignorance. Stupid people lack the ability to think critically and evaluate information and are often content to blindly follow whatever is put in front of them.

look at the 1,000 stupid people who now have criminal records for "fighting for Trump" on Jan 6 over his "stolen election" claim
and the stupid people who voted for him and will vote for him again (you may know some)


mod: go ahead ban me, I'd rather hang with Bonhoeffer than be complicit in the creeping fascism in this country


Title: yet another drone attack in Sevastopol
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2023, 07:44:08 PM
http://t.me/Novoeizdanie/49481

just off of Fort Constatine

3rd drone attack on Sevastopol in last week
happened today

smoke across the water
fire in the sky


also low level sabotage happening constantly in the same area, like damage to railroad tracks and arson




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 05, 2023, 03:10:47 AM
Prigozhin claims that Wagner will leave Bakhmut on 10th May because of a lack of ammo.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvWeVBSX0AAq0Hh?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 05, 2023, 03:50:32 AM
Looks like Putler's pride and joy...his hypersonic missiles...ain't all that after all.


According to Defense Express data the air defence system successfully intercepted the Russian hypersonic missile X-47 "Kinzhai " at around 02:40 on May 4th over Kyiv.


It is likely that the Patriot missile defence system was used for the interception.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2023, 09:21:00 AM
“They came here as volunteers and are dying so you can sit like fat cats in your luxury offices.”

this mantra is starting to gain some traction in Russia amonst the gopnicks
and the more they suffer, the more they're gonna embrace this
so whoever co-opts this first will be the first to ride it to the top two years from now


having your own private Russian army(s) is a huge freakin advantage
you can say whatever the phuque you want without fear of the "authorities"
and if you can direct all the public anger TOWARDS the authorities
that's the ticket
let the electricity follow the path of least resistance

if only Prigozhin wasn't a Tambov....
yalky palky

nothing ever proceeds in a straight line in Russia
every path is crooked
on the boulevard of broken dreams
and I walk alone, I walk alone

dj blyatman autobus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIOHSAfJ4_s

half of all Russki autobus are now ammunition carriers in Ukraine after they lost all the trucks


Title: no victory - no victory day parade
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2023, 07:01:45 AM
we ain't got no victory day parade
not because of security reasons....
no, management doesn't want the parents of dead soldiers to march with their photos
cuz the lines are gonna stretch for a long, long, long way
and managment don't like the optiks

middle aged people who used to walk in victory day parades with photos of their dead parents, now have photos of their dead kids

which is "more real" in Russia?
Reality?
or the "perception of reality"

have the doors of perception in Russia opened up yet?

cry "HAVOC!" and let slip, the Drones of WAR
then shall they be tremblin
in the basement of the kremlin

Pieces of Eight!!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 09, 2023, 05:34:43 AM
The latest from Prigozhin today.


He still hasn't received the extra ammo he asked for.


He has however been informed by the Kremlin that if his Wagner's leave Bakhmut it will be considered as treason by mother Russia.He still reckons if the extra ammo doesn't arrive he's going to give a big fark you to Putler and withdraw his men from Bakhmut.


Kadyrov has said his men will replace the Wagner's in Bakhmut if they withdraw...whilst desperately pleading with Prigozhin not to withdraw. ;D




Prigozhin also said he's lost 500 men because the 72nd Brigade fled from Bakhmut.


He also said the AFU is breaking  the orc flanks in the Bakhmut direction....and the AFU counter-offensive hasn't even started yet.


All this on Putler's Victory Day. ;D


Meanwhile Girkin says it's time to start thinking about preventing Russia from falling apart because military defeat is near....he's looking totally depressed  ;D


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvhnQ2zWIAEn6ns?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 09, 2023, 09:41:02 AM
Crimea River of Tears

most ironic irony ever
is that Putin is destroying Russia in order to cement his big win in the next election,
to be made President for life by showing off his "great victory" and all the political capital that would've given him, but unfortunately....

dear comrads!
yes, we have no bullets
but that's OK, cuz we don't have any guns either

but we have plenty of empty vodka bottles, and leftover gas we haven't sold to india
and by combining these two we will launch incendiary attacks with human gopnick drones
they will charge towards the enemy making airplane sounds and holding molotov cocktail in each extended arm and drop them on Western armies secretly operating in Nazi occupied Ukraine who are determined to destroy Russia with their secret Bio-weapons labs

we Russians are TOTALLY in touch with reality, unlike westerners who promote men dressing as women, who are the opposite of REAL RUSSIAN men , who worship violence and destruction of everything NOT Russian (but actually end up destroying everything Russian-doh!)
Russians are so smart they played themselves, better than they played America with Trump

Russian Reality Distortion Field is devouring itself
it even ate Tucker Carlson
and it;s STILL hungry!!!

dawg, one thread of Russia's 2024 election interference has openly begun
RFK Jr.‘s podcast on Julian Assange and wikileaks on Bluesky. (google it)
RFK jr a democrat, will be an oligarch sponsored 3rd party candidate established SOLELY to take votes from Biden to help Trump win in next election
just one of MANY active measures being planned

because as Nancy Pelosi said, "when it comes to Trump, all roads lead to Putin"



I mean can you imagine Russia gets it's ass kicked in Ukraine during the next 18 months leading up to the US presidential election
but then Trump wins relection again....
can ya guess what would happen next?




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 10, 2023, 08:41:57 AM
Looks like Bakhmut is nearly all gone, just a few streets remaining still held by Ukrainian forces according to this report:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65533192

So nothing to gain here but a devastated wasteland by the Russians. It's bought Ukraine a lot of time and stopped the Russians advancing, but it's cost both sides many lives.

The city of Bakhmut is no more and the population is gone.

So now just to see who will attack next and where. The report tells us Ukraine is ready to counterattack with up to 230 tanks and many new trained battalions. The Russians most likely still hold superior numbers but their armaments is perhaps questionable.

However, with Ukraine attacking and the Russians dug in they may have more of a struggle this time and victory may be more elusive. Many Ukrainian troops could potentially be lost.

Quite possibly Ukraine may wait for the Russians to make their next move on from Bakhmut and then counter it, or they may decide to strike first. Potentially I think they may be better off waiting for the Russians to move first and counter in the hope of routing the enemy at that spot right in through a then possibly weakened defensive line instead of risking an all out assault on Russian dug in and waiting for them which may prove harder to push back.

My guess is that within the next few weeks we'll find out.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 11, 2023, 04:15:13 AM
According to CNN the UK has delivered long-range cruise missiles to Ukraine,something Biden has been reluctant to do.


The Storm Shadow has a range of more than 250km ( 155 miles ).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 11, 2023, 07:42:34 AM
According to CNN the UK has delivered long-range cruise missiles to Ukraine,something Biden has been reluctant to do.


The Storm Shadow has a range of more than 250km ( 155 miles ).

Looks like the Himars have a limited range to about 49 miles so looks like the Russians switched to making their ammo dumps over that. Kind of wondered why we hadn't heard much more on the Himars of recent. The Cruise missiles the UK are supplying reach up to 200 miles bringing those new ammo dumps back into range. So that will really screw up the Russians ability to wage war & defend against a counter attack. They are already running out of ammo for Wagner at Bakhmut so it will help limit their ability to counter Ukrainian forces for long. Makes sense as tanks alone are probably going to struggle to make headway against a dug in defender considering the Russians probably have anti-tanks gear also. The Russians of course are not happy about it and as usual the bulky resorts to threatening which usually turn out to be idle threats but either way we can't afford to let that affect us:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072375/Russia-threatens-Britain-adequate-response-military-supply-missiles.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 11, 2023, 04:23:09 PM
none of this will really matter
the war will not be won or lost on the battlefield....

the moment the weakest link in Ukraine's arsenal supply chain is cut...
Ukraine will be lost

FSB has special teams on this (can't afford to phuque this up, it is literally Putin's last hope)

they're all over Americans like  Mauricio Garcia the Texas mall shooter who posted on OK.RU, and the american airman who posted secrets on another Russian site.
Russian teams are combing all through alt-right web sites, lookin for the next Lee Harvey....


if Putin can once more engineer a win for Trump
Ukraine will fall and so to will the USA
you think he doesn't understand this
you think this is too far-fetched?
hahaha whatcha laughin at

ya'll gonna get a big SURPRIZE next year!!!


Manchurian candidate indeed...

note:
the "news media" isn't meant to provide "facts"
it's purpose is to control what information is passed to the masses to control what they think
and the truth is not part of that
we are all being played by oligarch owned media
who answer only to their own agenda$
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 11, 2023, 11:13:42 PM
none of this will really matter
the war will not be won or lost on the battlefield....

the moment the weakest link in Ukraine's arsenal supply chain is cut...
Ukraine will be lost

FSB has special teams on this (can't afford to phuque this up, it is literally Putin's last hope)

they're all over Americans like  Mauricio Garcia the Texas mall shooter who posted on OK.RU, and the american airman who posted secrets on another Russian site.
Russian teams are combing all through alt-right web sites, lookin for the next Lee Harvey....


if Putin can once more engineer a win for Trump
Ukraine will fall and so to will the USA
you think he doesn't understand this
you think this is too far-fetched?
hahaha whatcha laughin at

ya'll gonna get a big SURPRIZE next year!!!


Manchurian candidate indeed...

note:
the "news media" isn't meant to provide "facts"
it's purpose is to control what information is passed to the masses to control what they think
and the truth is not part of that
we are all being played by oligarch owned media
who answer only to their own agenda$

You think someone is going to shoot Biden?

He's so old he might not make it to 2024, then again neither may Donald (the groper) Trump.

Losing supply of munitions & armaments from the US would be a big blow for Ukraine.

They would still have weapons supply from the UK & EU though.

The pending Counter-offensive could prove pivotal for Ukraine. Now Ukraine is going to get Cruise missiles from the UK that should prove the decisive blow against Russian forces. Imagine being a Russian soldier there knowing that they can come down at any time causing big losses of troops, munitions with which to fight with, etc.

I'm surprised the UK announced it though, the element of surprise would have been even more shocking to Russian troops even if it was announced just a day or so before hand.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 12, 2023, 08:28:48 AM
don't make those assumptions...
if the USA drops out, others will to
especially if someone pushes them
it will be game over

Putin's plan is to just hold-out until the end of next year
if I were the secret service I knwo how I'd stop this
but they won't do anything radical or controversial
just "business as usual"

but I KNOW the Russians are coming for Biden
and if this happens, it's gonna be all over for us




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 12, 2023, 09:56:36 AM
don't make those assumptions...
if the USA drops out, others will to
especially if someone pushes them
it will be game over

Putin's plan is to just hold-out until the end of next year
if I were the secret service I knwo how I'd stop this
but they won't do anything radical or controversial
just "business as usual"

but I KNOW the Russians are coming for Biden
and if this happens, it's gonna be all over for us

So if Biden wasn't around wouldn't the Democrats just put forward another nomination?

Hillary Clinton perhaps? If the field is a bit empty I can see Hillers giving it another go. Even though she has said she wouldn't do in the past after her 'final' attempt such a situation might create the right time & place for her to finally get in.

Or perhaps another candidate who like Biden is no fan of Russia.

Biden has always kind of looked a bit like Eisenhower to me.

Not sure if UK & EU would give up so easily. I think militarily they would just empty their arsenals by further donating more equipment to Ukraine. That won't be great for them but it would cost them little just leave them with reduced armaments, but then again if their not used eventually they get replaced anyway so might as well donate them when the need arises.

I think losing Ukraine is seen as too big a loss by the UK & EU that donating armament and having reduced armaments is seen as the least worst situation, after all the UK & EU don't have any other threat other than Russia. They know the score of letting Russia get too big & powerful from examples of the Soviet Union & Nazi Germany type of scenarios. They won't be wanting either of those scenarios again. At the moment Russia is having a very tough time making inroads into Ukraine so it makes sense to drain your enemy while they are having the harder fight.

For Ukraine it's probably better to try and win the war this year to avoid the risk of events elsewhere changing their fortune. However, Russia is suffering economically and that looks set to continue the longer it goes on. Russia's armaments are being destroyed and it's not quite clear whether Russia can replace them in sufficient quantity once they are used up. So increasingly Russia could get more & more run down. A weak Russia again is probably in our favour.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 12, 2023, 10:15:13 AM
"So if Biden wasn't around wouldn't the Democrats just put forward another nomination?"

sure, but how would that help?
Russians understand timing, do it the right time, and there really is no alternative but a Trump victory
this is the whole point, to help engineer a Trump victory like in 2016 (with hacking of emails and bribing FBI)
they will do it with these means as well
but they WILL have a backup plan, if polls aren't in their favor
Putin and Trump cannot afford Trump to lose next year, both of their futures depend on him winning
they will do EVERYTHING in their power to ensure his victory


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 12, 2023, 12:48:02 PM
Krim,


      You are a bit of a doom and gloom merchant. :)


Last year you was insisting Russia was going to deploy a Nuke on or over Ukraine in the fall.


Didn't happen did it ?


Regarding Ukraine's potential supply problems...well what about Russia's ?


Russia only had one spare tank for their  Moscow victory parade..they've had to send T-55's to the front lines because they're running out of modern tanks.


We've got Prigozhin bleating about a lack of ammo and now we're hearing the orcs have got no anti-tank weapons to hold off the AFU tanks at Bakhmut,where the AFU is now starting to take ground on the flanks.


Looks like Russia's weakest link in the arms supply chain has already been found out....so how are they going to last the war ?




Biden has done a decent job supporting Ukraine but it's the UK who stepped up to the plate in being the first to supply anti-tank missiles,tanks and now long-range missiles while the USA has dithered.
We're now hearing the 31 USA Abrams won't be in Ukraine until early AUTUMN FFS !!


 The EU has agreed a deal to supply Ukraine with a MILLION rounds of 155mm and 152mm artillery shells,for western and soviet arms,whilst  Cherniev Yehor,Chair Ukraine delegation to NATO was saying on Sky News today that the counter-offensive is being delayed because the USA can't keep up with the production of artillery shells required.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 12, 2023, 02:54:13 PM
i still believe a Russian EMP is a possibility, as is Novichok as is a "Lee Harvey Oswald" solution....

and that if ANY of these solutions emerge, then the success of Ukraine's military campaign is irrelevant...
if the blowback from a major Ukrainian victory, is strong enough, that may be the trigger for Putin to employ one of these alternative solutions

I don't understand Putin's timing issues, maybe it's after the Russian presidential election, next March, 10 months from now
whatever the reasons, he's hedging his BIG plays against the west and Ukraine
something's holding him back, but he won't wait forever...

if Trump suspends aid, that's likely enough on it's own, to tip the scales away from Ukraine, but if the USA drops out, Europeans will be under pressure to do the same...

I don't think the war is gonna end the way ya'll think it is...
putin made a big mistake going mano-et-mano against Ukraine
he shoulda used his speciality of kgb methods
his play against Hillary was brilliant, and done with a couple of hackers and a bribe to the lead FBI investigator investigating Russian cyber crime
that's all it took
this is a testbook case of asymetrical warfare

he will have another opportunity to do this next year
there is already huge and constant daily media pumping of hunter biden's laptop story all over the news here
same as hillary's emails
with the same purpose and intent
if this is not enough then he will employ stronger techniques
Trump/Putin desperation will force them to take risks they would normally not consider
Russian right wing web sites are full of American white sumpremists
they just need to find the right one
and I KNOW they're lookin pretty damned hard to find him


you'll see what I mean next year...


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 13, 2023, 04:16:33 AM
My guess is that the Presidential Election race itself is likely to be the opportune moment to take out Biden. While the President us not as often out and about as the contender he is likely to be more out and about than usual and more events often mean difficulty keeping up with security. That or they get an insider in the White House itself and they go for him there but likely also a tough one.

CB is right the UK has led the way with Ukraine in making it able to counter the Russian threat. If Ukraine had any sense they would see the UK as a staunch and dependable alky and get with the UK fully rather than the EU or the US. However, Zelensky seems to lack the realisation of how pivotal the UK is to Ukrainian victory. Even as we supply Ukraine with war winning Shadow Storm Cruise missiles Zelensky bitches about Eurovision not being held in a country bordering Ukraine. Honestly the lack of gratitude of that man is unbelievable, typical Ukrainian, if I were there I would go and spank his rear myself!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12076093/President-Zelensky-says-Poland-Slovakia-better-Eurovision-hosts-Britain.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 13, 2023, 05:42:39 AM
To be honest I think the Storm Shadow Cruise missiles are more a tactical move of genius on our part. By giving them to Ukraine but making the Russians aware of them in advance it does two things. Firstly, it gives Russia notice to move their ammo dumps back over 200 miles away from the front libe or they will be destroyed (again). The Russians are likely to do so this time as they seem too short of ammo as it is. That will mean very lengthy supply lines that will make it just as hard for Russia to hold onto its positions similar to if the ammo dumps had been destroyed. Secondly it means that it's going to be very hard for Russia to advance into Ukraine further as their ammo dumps are always going to be at least 200 behind them in most instances.

Ben Wallace's statement the other day was just to pull the rug from under the Ukrainians by allowing Russia in effect notice to pull back their ammo dumps thereby making their lines of supply ridiculously long. Russia was peeved as it meant that they had been outmanoeuvred without the need to fire these cruise missiles. While Ukraine was likely upset that Russia was told about the upcoming threat before they were able to fire the missiles and destroy the ammo dumps.

By doing so it meant Russia was peeved but not so upset as they would be had their ammo dumps been destroyed with the cruise missiles so averting risk of escalating the conflict further. So thereby having little choice but to accept the situation and move on. Ukraine likely upset that they wouldn't be able to let the missiles have full affect or likely be worthwhile firing them but could say little other than it coming out in the Eurovision rebuke I reckon. Odds are these cruise missiles will never be fired or few of them as the UK has likely given them few of them with no guarantee of more. Thus Ukraine has to hold onto them unless there is a big ammo dump within the 200 miles to use them as a non- nuclear deterrent.

It's why I say if I was a Ukrainian I would just bugger off as you're little more than a little cared about expendable pawn in a western power's rich man's game.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 13, 2023, 05:43:36 AM
From Zelensky's televised address to his country last night.


" I spoke today with British Prime Minister Sunak.Thank you Rishi for your continued support and the steps which make it clear to the World that the UK will always lead the way . "
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 14, 2023, 11:05:07 AM
Massive blow to the orcs yesterday when the Brigade Commander of the 4th Motorized Rifle Brigade ,Vyacheslav Makarov,was killed by an AFU artillery strike...confirmed by the Russian MOD.


The Brigade Chief of Staff was also killed.


They were killed south of the village of Ivankovskoye,near Bakhmut.


Apparently Makarov had gone to the front to try and rally his fleeing troops ...the orcs are seriously in trouble now as the 4th Brigade in the 2nd Army Corp was the most combat-ready they had.


Meanwhile there have now been 2,160 orc officers confirmed  killed in Ukraine since February 24th last year..up to 11th May this year.


The destruction of the Russian military continues apace  >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on May 14, 2023, 05:34:59 PM


Apparently Makarov had gone to the front to try and rally his fleeing troops ...

Haven't you heard . . .  they are not fleeing?   

They are repositioning to better defensive positions.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine die kampf Ukrainia
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2023, 08:43:11 PM
tovarisch
10 minutes before the Ukrainian group Tvorchi from Ternopil  took the stage at Eurvision a cruise missile hit Ternopil....
one of the candidates competing against Erdogan in Turkey was targeted by a "deep fake" sex video made in Russia, so he dropped out
Trump has announced that the traitor Michael Flynn will once more be part of Trump's inner circle once Putin helps him become president again

Putin does not care about how many Russian deaths there are, any more then Trump cared about how many American Covid deaths there were, their focus never leaves their own self-interest
Trump has a plan
Putin has a plan
They're pretty much the same plan
it's REAL easy to use America's own stupidity against itself
it already worked once
and if done right, will totally work once more

Cassandra who had the gift of prophecy foretold the fall of Troy, but was fated never to be believed.

Babylon, she gonna fall...
a fake Russian statue will lead to its undoing next year
Lao Tsu said, "always attack the enemy at its weakest point..."

after that, everything will be revealed

Title: Trump Tower Power Hour for Little Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2023, 04:46:54 PM
wussup homies?
die hard digital detectives lookin through the web site http://www.importgenius.com/
were able to piece together how little Moscow in Trump Towers was able to circumvent sanctions and buy US aerospace components and ship them through Turkey to Russia

Oleg Sergeyevich Patsulya and Agunda Konstantinovna Makeeva are the first Trump Tower sanction busters to themselves be busted by the FBI (t'was in recent news)
this is just the first piece of eight that was uncovered, the whole treasure chest will be forthcoming, hopefully state dept can confiscate their assets, so there ass sets on the ground!!

disclaimer:
slovo te mamaichka
I do some bizness with other folks in the "tower" nothin illegal.... eta pravda
all roads from Trump lead to l'il mini Putin...

fake theocracy to ban democacy
no transexuals from transylvania
are gonna be over to entertain ya
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 16, 2023, 04:16:20 AM
Russia fired 18 missiles into Ukraine last night.


6 Kinzhai ( the fabled hypersonics )


9 Kalibr


3 ground-launched missiles ( presumably S-300/400 )


Drones also.


All were shot down .


However,falling debris did hit a bus depot.


That's a lot of money spent by Putler to hit a couple of buses. ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 16, 2023, 07:58:09 AM
Ukraine went from  crates of molotov cocktails made from old qvas bottles
and teachers, dentists and lawyers picking up old rifles straight out of museums.
To the best trained and equipped army in europe in just over a year!
and if Putin could't handle the old Ukrainian resistance
then he sure as hell isn't gonna succeed against the newer improved one

Slava Ukraina

it only took Russia $120+ million to destroy those two busses
busses are valid targets, considering that after Russia lost most of its trucks, they took city busses to transport munitions
maybe ice cream trucks are next, ding, ding, patrony...patrony...

those patriot AA missiles force the Russians to keep their missile launching planes out of their range, this adds a lot of extra time to the cruise missile flight paths, increasing their probability of being shot down

I just bought some Caliber missile "scud crud" from Ukraine off ebay to add to my collection of Israeli scud crud, and V-2 rocket parts!! (my grandchildren will be so THRILLED when they inherit this")

the only problem with this Ukrainian suceess is the mantra "nothing fails like success"
what this means is that it increases the probability that at some future juncture, l'il mini Putin will "escalate" into using something Ukraine/West can't counter

Russians believe it'll be a nuke
I'm more in the Novichok camp, there was no response to syria using Novichok
the west is very reluctant to escalate militarily, they're already pouring weapons and money in, and massive sanctions, what further deterrance can they impose that doesn't involve direct military intervention

Russians will boil the frog, maybe start out with a simple small binary Novichok attack done by the Lugansk People's Army nudge..nudge...wink...wink... and then raise the temperature to boil the frog

l'il mini putin is waiting for the carpenters to finish his "Trojan Horse"
beware of Russians bearing gifts moy druzya
even Achilles was vulnerable once you knew his weakness

millions of innocents will suffer
but everything putin created will be destroyed
Ukraine is not dead yet, and never will be

Amerika, however is a different story

The Florida American history exam.
Instead of “slaves” the exam said “forced servants.
Japanese internment camps were referred to as a “relocation program.”
books about the holocaust have been banned from school libraries
meanwhile, christo-fascists urge their followers to fight mermaid people
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2023/05/awaken-america-speaker-warns-people

"it can't happen HERE"
oh really, it already is....
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2023, 08:31:17 AM
demographic impact on Russia of the war in Ukraine is starkly revealed by the statistic that in 2022, the war likely caused the death of every second Russian who died between the ages of 20 and 24

but nobody in Russia cares...

even mentioning this would likely get you a fine for criticizing authorities

everybody in Russia learns how to shut their eyes and mouth and just be a "good prisoner" to avoid punishment
this is about the only thing you can hope for in Russia...

ya know, this is such a swell system, why doncha all try creating it here in Amerika
you'll have an opportunity next year to do so
this country gonna be like Jonestown baby
after dumb phuques guzzle the trump-flavored kool-aid again



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2023, 03:42:26 PM
demographic impact on Russia of the war in Ukraine is starkly revealed by the statistic that in 2022, the war likely caused the death of every second Russian who died between the ages of 20 and 24

Does this equate to a lot of pooty tang for your Trenchie in the future :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2023, 04:40:46 PM
Trench
you want me to be a gypsy and tell ya yur fortune?

think of a broad lake, that has a series of stepping stones from one shore to the distant opposite shore
to get across the lake you have to leap from stone to stone
and each stone is more difficult than the preceeding one

after years of furious contemplation, you're still on the shore trying to figure out how to jump to the first stone

your "social gene" isn't to blame Trench
your analysis paralysis always leaves you standing on the closest shore, looking forlornly at the opposite shore
and that emotion of longing is as close as you get, cuz when it comes time to jump - you don't jump, cuz you're afraid of leaving the shore of yo mama's quaint little village
and as long as you keep doing this, why do ya expect you're gonna go across the lake me boyo?

that's 2 pounds, please....
WOT? who's this silly lookin bugger? what happened to the Queen?
she WHAT?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 18, 2023, 07:04:31 AM
latest missile score-card 19/20


Ukraine positions its air defense to protect civilian centers like Kyiv
as a result, Russian missile attrition rate is now over 90%
ergo, targetting children, hospitals, etc produces a diminishing return...

I would imagine that at some point russia will seek to kill children in less defended areas, especially as its supply of raketa is diminishing

Hypersonic missile developers under arrest day after missile failures
reminds me of Russia's first nuclear test back in '49, if it had failed, Stalin ordered the nuclear engineers to be shot as punishment
the more things change in Russia...

Zelensky is aware of the danger posed by Trump's "election"
he knows he has to take Crimea before then
I totally see his plan when he gets all the material he needs
but I will not comment on it here

I told my wife's relatives in Crimea to GTF out of Crimea
but they don't wanna listen
denial is not a river in Egypt
it's how russians view the world

yet another partisan train attack in crimea
and a russian cruise missile fired towards Odesa crashed into a field in western crimea
they aimed for Odesa but hit Vulkanivka...


Title: Russian developers of Kinzhal missile arrested
Post by: ML on May 18, 2023, 07:24:35 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12093811/Russia-detains-three-hypersonic-rocket-scientists-treason-charges-despite-outcry.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 19, 2023, 01:26:42 AM
Saw this news article this morning:

Via Euronews: Sexual assault victims from Ukraine face challenges in Poland and Hungary, report says
http://www.euronews.com/2023/05/19/sexual-assault-victims-from-ukraine-face-challenges-in-poland-and-hungary-report-says

Aside from the main thrust of the article itself I was surprised to learn that there are now 10 million Ukrainians who are now no longer living in Ukraine but are refugees. That's roughly a quarter of Ukraine's population which kind of shocked me, I'm assuming it's true, I hadn't realised that the number of refugees has climbed so high.

Mostly that will be women and children, or women singles. Some may be old grannies of course but likely a lot of them fairly young. Well it's a large chunk out of a population so must be a bit of a state in Ukraine as currently only the eastern part of Ukraine is affected directly. Guessing that it's mostly the men that are left then a few women young & old and children who stayed on. So must be quite a different scene to how things were, can't really imagine it really.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 19, 2023, 01:57:51 AM
According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs there are 7,989,000 Ukrainian refugees  living abroad as at 1/2/23.


Of these 5,840,000 are adults.


The UK hasn't proven a very popular destination with 140,300 living here.


There are 158,613 living in Moldova.


By far the highest number are in Poland  with 1,786,000,followed by Germany with 1,200,000.


I suspect very few attractive Ukrainian women refugees who were single will return to Ukraine to live....they'll have been hooking up with local guys as a means to get out of the country on a permanent basis.





It's sad how a country can be destroyed so much by the ambitions of an evil autocrat,and hopefully i will see Russia  pay for this over the short and long-term with the destruction of their country too in my lifetime.









Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2023, 03:07:29 PM
Interesting news article today reckons it's not just Wagner troops that are being drugged and sent to the slaughter but also Russian Army troops, mostly new recruits conscripted in poorly trained (if at all) and armed:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/disposable-russian-troops-using-drugs-ukraine/

A pretty nasty way to treat anybody, they are sent in to almost certain death, if the Ukrainian side doesn't shoot them then their own side do if they try to retreat. Basically just to keep pressure up on the Ukrainians and to give away Ukrainian positions, etc. Must be terrible for the Russians involved their lives being used as bait and valued so little. Many probably know the fate that is going to befall them but have no option at that stage. Not sure whether the drug taking is voluntary or forced, probably many troops used like this would rather not be all present up top for what lies in store.

My guess is that the Russians must be using up their conscripts at an alarming rate like this. No doubt the Ukrainians are taking casualties as a result but it seems a self defeating way for the Russians to wage war. A total waste of far too many men for too little gain in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 20, 2023, 03:54:44 PM
what's worse in my view
is the whole bakmhut operation
is just so Prigozhin can show a wagner flag to Russian media flying over bakmhut
and the whole Ukrainian special operation
was just so Putin could show a ukrainian banner laying on the ground to Russian media on election day
more people die for glory and power for the few than any other cause
it's a universal truth, that the people at the top always phuque the people below them
every fire that happens in Russia
is from someone who understands and is fighting back
one day we'll all be fighting back
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 21, 2023, 01:17:38 PM
Well the battle for Bakhmut is finally over due to there not longer being a Bakhmut to fight for. Both sides claim victory but in reality neither won.

Estimated casualties (mostly troops I assume) were 100,000 I'm guessing for both sides combined but strong likelihood is that Russian Wagner troops lost the most men by a long way.

Wagner are apparently moving out later this week from the Bakhmut area likely very depleted and exhausted. Russian regular troops will apparently replace their positions. Ukrainian troops have retaken the strategic hills surrounding what was Bakhmut.

Russia is apparently thought to be low in troop numbers again so now would be a good time to attack while they may be in a weakened state. Possibly Putler may try to draft in more troops though conscription though I can't see many people turning up knowing what happens to conscripts who do turn up. Fleeing for the border even as an illegal migrant would likely be the better option for Russians facing call up.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 22, 2023, 03:07:33 AM
Biden said at the G7 yesterday that Russia has suffered more than 100,000 troops killed or wounded at Bakhmut.


Wagner says they're pulling out of Bakhmut between 25th May and 1st June.


The AFU has said yesterday they're continuing to make progress on the flanks of Bakhmut and that they still hold the SW of what's left of the town...they have a partial encirclement of Bakhmut and they'll be in a position to hit the high buildings where the Wagner's are located.


Sounds like the plan is to flatten what little is left of the town and the Wagners in it.


Prigozhin knows this hence why he wants to get what's left of his troops out of there sharpish.


We shall see who wins the race.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2023, 02:36:09 PM
Some recently developing news of interest:

http://www.politico.eu/article/pro-ukraine-russian-soldiers-storm-border-region-claim-liberation-of-villages/

The beginning of Russia breaking up or just a bunch of wacko's?

Potential for the west to back such groups if not already, the more chaos in Russia the more difficult for Putler to wage war. I suggested this as a course if action at the start so whether they have actually gotten to it?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2023, 08:48:24 PM
i'd consider this a "psy-op" as opposed to a conventional military operation
it's designed to influence the opinions of the locals
as well as make Putin paranoid so that he commits some blunder in response
when the Russians counter-attack the russo-ukrainians can just head back across the border to kharkiv
it's also a REALLY old strategy to send out raiding parties
and try to entice the enemy to chase you back home
and then you lead em into a prepared trap

the fact that ukrainians are not acting defensively
let's me believe the major offensive is not far off



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 02, 2023, 01:44:51 PM
Blinken today.


"The Kremlin has often claimed it has the second strongest military in the world....and many believed it. Today,many see Russia's military as the second strongest in Ukraine ".



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 06, 2023, 05:46:49 AM
Looks like the Orcs finally did it! They blew up the Nova Khakovka Dam!


http://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-06-23/index.html
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on June 08, 2023, 09:48:35 AM
 The Russians may be in retreat. They have a tradition of destroying everything when retreating, they did it when Napoleon invaded and when the Nazis invaded. If they don't have it, nobody can have it seems to be their philosophy.   
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on June 09, 2023, 06:11:21 PM
 Ukrainian farmer busy with his tractor.

http://youtu.be/65AcEc9PD_w
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 11, 2023, 10:40:00 AM
Video's now out there showing that the villages of Neskuchne and Blahodatne in the Donetsk region have both been liberated from the orcs.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 11, 2023, 10:48:22 AM
the Northern Crimean Canal is now down forever!!!
no more water is gonna flow through there
it's the first thing the war has cut-off from Crimea
next will be the two major rail lines and two main highways
and then the gas pipelines and power lines and the kerch bridge


my wife's family are all mobiks
anyone with past military service in Crimea has already been conscripted up into late 40s age (and my wife's family is a military family with almost universal service)
we have father/son and brother/brother combos who are deployed now
they are now on the Zaporizhzhia front after spending months and months of digging trenches in northern crimea
they are all wearin beards and tryin to look like Chechens
I can't show photos cuz I don't wanna jeabordize them

if I were still livin in Crimea, me and my daughters would have no choice but to work for the GRU to stay out of jail
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 11, 2023, 11:45:20 AM
I haven't seen a video yet,but Makarivka.also  in the Donetsk region, >:D  has now been liberated from the orcs officially.


I cannot confirm but i've been informed that the AFU is advancing at around  5km per hour and the orc lines are collapsing.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 13, 2023, 07:18:54 AM
After the initial impetus i think it's fair to say the AFU counter offensive has slowed down.Either that or people were getting carried away with the initial reporting.


Latest news from the Ukrainian MOD is that over the past week the AFU liberated seven villages in the Donetsk and Tavria areas,advanced 6.5 km's and gained control of 90 square km's.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 13, 2023, 08:47:33 AM
After the initial impetus i think it's fair to say the AFU counter offensive has slowed down.Either that or people were getting carried away with the initial reporting.


Latest news from the Ukrainian MOD is that over the past week the AFU liberated seven villages in the Donetsk and Tavria areas,advanced 6.5 km's and gained control of 90 square km's.


Most of what we are seeing now are the strong probing attacks that are looking for the weak spot in the Russian lines. Ukraine has yet to even engage with their heavy armored assault brigade reserves yet. They are using fast light vehicles with heavy machine guns, a few tanks and infantry to clear out the trenches first.


These probing attacks are showing very good signs of success. The main attack will follow in time.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 13, 2023, 09:04:24 AM
c'est un petite appetizer
the main course of this red banquet has yet to be served...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 14, 2023, 03:55:19 AM
Breaking news from Russian channels of a large number of orcs killed at Kreminna this morning...the Ruskies have gone into meltdown. ;D


The orcs were hanging around for two hours, waiting for their pre-assault on AFU positions  motivational speech from their General, when HIMARS arrived instead. >:D


Involved was the 20th Army and it's General Sukhrab " if they die,they die " Akhmedov,known for last years Vuhledar kamikaze charge.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 15, 2023, 04:31:09 AM
Reuters went to Storozhneve,in particular the road which is shown on the footage of June 12th.


"The road is littered with Russian corpses and knocked-out Russian armoured vehicles." Reuters commented on the released footage.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FymqN6bWYBEZYEj?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 15, 2023, 04:32:41 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FymqPhwWYAsoeuA?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 15, 2023, 04:37:07 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FymqQwiWYCIgFZG?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2023, 12:44:39 AM
Ukrainians were forced to be bilingual.  But I believe Russian will be replaced with English over time in Ukraine.

Looks like you were right Boe:

http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/17/7407304/

Assuming Ukraine wins the war of course.

I expect nothing less than good proper British recieved pronunciation English. Only those sounding like Jacob Rees Mogg will be acceptable ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2023, 01:05:25 AM
I don't intend posting on here a lot in the near future but for the record I will briefly state where I am on the current Ukrainian Counter-offensive.

Before the counter offensive started I had my doubts, namely that the western tanks the west gave Ukraine would not necessarily be the answer that Ukraine needed largely because Russia has anti tank stuff like the NLAWS & Javelins, mines and attack helicopters, etc so western tanks wouldn't necessarily be as affective as many thought in spear heading the Ukrainian counter offensive.

So that doesn't leave a lot else on which to spear head a Counter-offensive. It may still be early days but only a few villages have been taken so far so practically nothing of any value. Apparently Ukraine is not using its whole army at the moment probably so it doesn't risk over committing, losing a lot of troops then being pushed back itself.

One big mistake Ukraine seems to have made is waiting 12 months before counter attacking. That's given Russia time to dig in multiple defences and beef up it's troop numbers. So Ukraine is attacking territory where Russia is now well prepared so that's not a great strategy and a blunder on Ukraine's part. Still Ukraine might still prevail and push through if Russia can be found wanting anywhere along its defensive line. Ukraine should have really counterattacked 12 months ago but were too careful in risking big casualties which is understandable but it may be difficult to avoid if Ukraine wants to win.

Possibly in the next few days or weeks Ukraine might still be able to make bigger gains but I'm starting to doubt it.

That can be a big problem going forward as Russia knows from Afghanistan that the West can't keep up funding a war long term and Ukraine is now totally dependent on western funding. So if Ukraine can't manage a big break through this year in a Counter-offensive then long term it's future may start to look more bleak.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 20, 2023, 10:03:15 AM
Carnage among the orcs currently.


Russian Deputy Commander of the Storm Ossetia battalion ,Tekhov Alvengo,died in P'yatykhatky.Russian sources claim that along with him almost an entire battalion ( 300  ) of fighters died during recent fights for the small village,which the AFU have now liberated.


Over 1000 orcs killed in Ukraine yesterday.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fy7i3x1WwAAtyjG?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2023, 03:18:01 PM
the Northern Crimean Canal is now down forever!!!
no more water is gonna flow through there
it's the first thing the war has cut-off from Crimea
next will be the two major rail lines and two main highways
and then the gas pipelines and power lines and the kerch bridge


my wife's family are all mobiks
anyone with past military service in Crimea has already been conscripted up into late 40s age (and my wife's family is a military family with almost universal service)
we have father/son and brother/brother combos who are deployed now
they are now on the Zaporizhzhia front after spending months and months of digging trenches in northern crimea
they are all wearin beards and tryin to look like Chechens

I can't show photos cuz I don't wanna jeabordize them

if I were still livin in Crimea, me and my daughters would have no choice but to work for the GRU to stay out of jail

How are they getting on? Some days into Ukraine's Counter-offensive now. British Intelligence reckons there are heavy losses on both sides.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 21, 2023, 08:40:57 PM
i'm not currently allowed to tell anything about my family in order maintain operational security, so NO COMMENT!!!
but unlike Wagner, mobiks are in until the war is over

mobiks have never made so much money in their lives
so even theough they are all gonna die, they're gonna die rich, so they're happy!!!
FREAKIN RUSSIANS!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 23, 2023, 01:17:36 PM
Putin's War according to Prigozhin

"The desire of Russia's ruling clan, who were not satisfied with the Donbas, was to appoint Medvedchuk as the president of Ukraine and divide its assets between each other for plundering"


so actually...
according to him,
all you Russians are sending your kids to get killed and maimed over the issues related to the stealing and lying of Russia's 'ruling clan' while THEIR kids are safe in multi-million euro homes in the West.

this means Russians are as freakin dumb as republicans and poor southerners who fought for slave owning masters whose sons were safe at home!!!!

dumbkopfs
I really want to disassociate myself from 'white people' even though I 'present' as white
cuz so MANY white people are SO FREAKIN DUMB!!!!
WTF??!!!

once Russians undestands this
that whole place'll burn like a pile of dry leaves
too many fires to count
everyone with a lighter is a potential russian freedom fighter








Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 23, 2023, 03:06:00 PM
It's all kicking off in Russia now.


The FSB has issued an arrest warrant on Prigozhin.


Prigozhin claims the military are fully behind him...and that the invasion of Ukraine was a sham based on fabrications from the Kremlin regime,with the Russian soldiers now drowning in rivers of blood because of the lies.


BBC Newsnight says there are unconfirmed reports of a Russian rebel army moving toward Rostov with the FSB racing to meet them.TV news channels throughout Southern Russia are being hacked with direct messages from Prigozhin to the Russian people.


Videos showing military trucks moving into Moscow city centre.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on June 23, 2023, 03:14:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMWjYTRkgfA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvbyY2zSsDI
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 23, 2023, 05:40:50 PM
Exciting times! thanks CB and Dear John Green. I'm also following in the news channels. Looks like civil war could all of a sudden be kicking off now. Who would have thought it would be Wagner to go at it first. Who knows possibly the Russian Republic Regions may follow suit. Looks like this may possibly end the war in Ukraine. If enough Russian troops side with Wagner they may all end up deserting the territory in Ukraine and focus on their own civil war. In which case love tours to Ukraine may soon be a goer once again ;)

Just have to see what happens.

Looks like from the report that DJG put up that some Wagner troops are already in Moscow having been based near there.

Anyone with discontent to Putler may find an opportunity here to rise up against him.

Hopefully this will evolve into quite a firefight and not a damp squid with a bit of luck.

If I were Ukraine I would strike pro-Kremlin forces as hard as possible now with all their might and completely hold off in areas of pro-Progozhin forces. That could make pro-Kremlin forces crack, break and run even desert the front. That could have the effect of rolling up Russia's whole front line in Ukraine with both Ukraine & pro-Progozhin forces hitting pro-Kremlin forces from both directions making it too much for them to take. If Ukraine let it be known that they aren't looking to attack pro-Progozhin forces that could aid them in both themselves and pro-Progozhin forces being able to concentrate their attacks on pro-Kremlin forces. If pro-Progozhin forces remain after pro-Kremlin forces are defeated in Ukraine then Ukraine can easily tell them to leave quickly into Russia or be annihilated by Ukraine's then superior forces and flanking ability. My guess is that they would see the game is up and leave Ukraine otherwise an easy win for Ukraine anyway.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 23, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
According to AFU troops on the ground Bakhmut has become a" bloodbath" for orcs as rebels turn on those loyal to the Kremlin regime and kill each other.


General Surovikin has pleaded on video with the columns of  Wagner orcs marching to Moscow to lay down their arms.


Russian sources say that Progozhin has said any  troops sent against his troops will be killed and any aircraft sent against them will be shot down.


There are reports of some orc Helicopter pilots refusing to take off and engage with Prigozhin's army.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 24, 2023, 07:55:21 AM
If I were Ukraine I wouldn't pass up an opportunity like this. I would hit pro-Kremlin forces in Ukraine with everything there is even using HIMARS & Storm Shadow missiles on lower value troop concentrations. Add in continuous artillery move all the tanks to the front and then press in with all the ground troops they can muster in one big wave. Hitting the hell out off pro-Kremlin Russian Army troops now will send them into a blind state of panic and fear and make them break and run. Many of the Russian troops are conscripts without much combat ability, training or experience. Upon seeing their troops vapourised before their eyes they won't want to risk that happening to themselves and they'll flee the field.

If Ukraine doesn't act it could miss it's one big chance to end this war.

Prigozhin's troops are much smaller than the Russian Army apparently about 25,000 but tend to include some heavily experienced fighters, but they need to move well to stay in the game in territory that is now largely hostile to them. It's in Ukraine's interest to help keep them in the game by hitting pro-Kremlin Russian Army troops hard so they can't deal with the Wagner forces. That way Wagner forces will create havoc for Putler behind the line in Russia thereby making it easier for Ukraine to defeat Russian troops in Ukraine.

With Wagner troops moving in on Moscow I'm glad I'm not a tourist there at this moment in time.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 24, 2023, 12:48:57 PM
Well looks like it may be getting boring all of a sudden with Prigozhin having cut a deal. Seems strange as not sure what deal he could cut and can not be a good idea in that position as I wouldn't trust Putler or any of the others to hold up their end of the bargain. Once stood down they might well go for Prigozhin anyway. Ukraine looks like they lost their chance to crack the Russian Army quickly by not acting soon enough. All a bit of an anti-climax really.

Update: Looks like Prigozhin is going to be offered sanctuary in Belarus & charges dropped. Not sure why Prigozhin went for such a deal, he's a mercenary captain who will be accepting sanctuary from Lukashenko a Communist who is also Putler's pal with Russia on his doorstep. So how long is Prigozhin likely to live for in Belarus??? My guess is that he will be knocked off pretty quickly.

Not sure what is happening with the Wagner troops, I assume they won't be joining Prigozhin in Belarus so probably sucked into the Russian Army, can't see them letting go of all those troops they can use at the front by disbanding them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 24, 2023, 03:04:51 PM
I'm starting to get concerned about Ukraine's counter-offensive....it's painfully slow.


This wasn't unexpected at all...the orcs were clearly going to be well dug-in and prepared.


My concern stems from the upcoming USA Presidential elections next year when, if Biden doesn't win, the military support from the USA could suddenly stop,which would leave Ukraine in serious trouble.


The former Ukrainian PM was talking today and was saying it's going to take a long time to get the orcs out of Ukraine...i'm not sure Ukraine will have that time.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 24, 2023, 04:13:22 PM
I'm starting to get concerned about Ukraine's counter-offensive....it's painfully slow.


This wasn't unexpected at all...the orcs were clearly going to be well dug-in and prepared.


My concern stems from the upcoming USA Presidential elections next year when, if Biden doesn't win, the military support from the USA could suddenly stop,which would leave Ukraine in serious trouble.


The former Ukrainian PM was talking today and was saying it's going to take a long time to get the orcs out of Ukraine...i'm not sure Ukraine will have that time.

I totally agree CB, I've had my doubts also. Looking at the map too little ground has been taken so far and I don't think it's because they are preparing the way. I think it's because they are finding it too tough going as said because Russian troops had a long time to dig well in and prepare.

Ukraine also isn't that strong in the air, that's less of an issue when defending and Russia going into Ukraine's airspace where they are up against SAM's but that reverses around when Ukrainian planes enter Russian airspace in Russian controlled areas of Ukraine where Russia will have SAM's and can field many more planes with less risk.

So without much air support when attacking Ukraine has difficulty attacking in the ground. Along with that Ukraine doesn't really have anything that Russia doesn't have in its arsenal in general terms. Sure it has HIMARS & Storm Shadow but Russia has cruise missiles and has adapted to negating the effect of HIMARS & the like by avoiding concentrations of supply where it can. The tanks we gave Russia has anti tank mines, anti tank hand held Javelin type of stuff, anti tank helicopter & plane missiles. So with a lot of it, it's pound for pound. Ukrainian troops have been trained up well but they're attacking which is often harder than defending. Odds are Russian conscripts have probably had some training over the Winter/Spring also.

I think they lost out today in not moving quick enough and hard enough to take advantage of the disarray in Russia. Had they hammered Russian troops hard they may had caused many to break & run, defect to Prigozhin, etc. So not waiting much when something like that happens is really the key. Putting pressure on the enemy when they are vulnerable and make them crack.

If anything today has shown is that the west & Ukraine are likely using the wrong strategy in trying to defeat Russia head on in the field. The clue is to be more canny, try and find dissident groups in Russia to fund and equip with weapons. Even Regions of Russia that may be happy to break away from Russia. Get them onside, build up their ability to stage a successful uprising against a Russia whose main forces are concentrated in Ukraine and go that way about it. A Russia that has its own big problems at home isn't going to be so bothered about what is happening in Ukraine. It's why Russia wasn't bothered about Ukraine in the 90s they had their own economic woes, military & power struggle woes will work just as well at that.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2023, 09:23:08 AM
i'm not currently allowed to tell anything about my family in order maintain operational security, so NO COMMENT!!!
but unlike Wagner, mobiks are in until the war is over

mobiks have never made so much money in their lives
so even theough they are all gonna die, they're gonna die rich, so they're happy!!!
FREAKIN RUSSIANS!!!

Apparently the Wagner troops that were involved aren't going to face criminal charges. The ones that weren't are going to be offered a contract with the Russian Army. So I guess you were right Wagner troops at large aren't going to be in it till the war is over lol.

So isn't your wife upset that she could lose the family that has been conscripted? Brother, etc.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 25, 2023, 11:05:43 AM
"So isn't your wife upset that she could lose the family that has been conscripted? Brother, etc."

she's "all tied up" at the moment in bed and hence unable to reflect on the circumstances of her family
after i'm finished, i'll let her go....
and perhaps then she will think about it...

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on June 25, 2023, 02:13:51 PM
Pretty intense trench warfare fighting

http://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672939251598589953?t=Psm0C9WOVeZUPglfq_1LVQ&s=19
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on June 26, 2023, 02:58:51 AM
Saturday summarised

http://youtu.be/8BXhzdpP-lU
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2023, 07:30:06 AM
out of 90 000 Russians at the Zaporizzhia front(where my relatives are), about 16 000 are dead or wounded through the first 20 days of the offensive.
but all the russians who died, died wealthy(so they think), so no problema
russian survivors all look like chechens with their gray beards and run down appearance, cuz they're all unshaven middle aged mobiks livin in a swamp!!!

- out of 990 Russian artillery pieces, 300 have been destroyed.
this is a big problem, cuz nothing to shoot hohols with when they launch their big attack AND that's why Ukrsoldat are doin it!!!

first Russian defense line is ALREADY cracking like a Wagner roadblock

the coup attempt has put the focus on the cracks that are appearing in Russian society and not just between wagner vrs Russian gov supporters
longer the war goes on, the larger these cracks become

if pootin is trying to 'wait it out' in Ukraine until he absolutely ensures Trump's campaign victory so Trump cancels all aid
I think the coup shows that he doesn't have that much time left....



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2023, 12:31:48 PM
out of 90 000 Russians at the Zaporizzhia front(where my relatives are), about 16 000 are dead or wounded through the first 20 days of the offensive.
but all the russians who died, died wealthy(so they think), so no problema
russian survivors all look like chechens with their gray beards and run down appearance, cuz they're all unshaven middle aged mobiks livin in a swamp!!!

- out of 990 Russian artillery pieces, 300 have been destroyed.
this is a big problem, cuz nothing to shoot hohols with when they launch their big attack AND that's why Ukrsoldat are doin it!!!

first Russian defense line is ALREADY cracking like a Wagner roadblock

the coup attempt has put the focus on the cracks that are appearing in Russian society and not just between wagner vrs Russian gov supporters
longer the war goes on, the larger these cracks become

if pootin is trying to 'wait it out' in Ukraine until he absolutely ensures Trump's campaign victory so Trump cancels all aid
I think the coup shows that he doesn't have that much time left....

Good to have some figures to get an idea of how it is going out there Krim so many thanks for that.

Not sure I get the dying wealthy bit, surely that no longer matters when dead?

What is the deal anyway I assume they get extra money go to their family if they don't make it?

Something tells me even my small earnings/wealth would look good against it particularly accounting for risk.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 26, 2023, 03:35:37 PM
Ben Wallace said today in Parliament  that Ukraine has now liberated approx  300 square km's of territory from the orcs during the counter-offensive.


"They continue to make gradual but steady tactical progress."


"Russia do not appear to have the uncommitted ground forces needed to counter the multiple threats it is now facing from Ukraine ,which extends over 200km from Bakhmut to the eastern bank of the Dnipro river."


His full speech can be seen on Ministry of Defence GB @DefenceHQ.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 26, 2023, 03:51:28 PM
Good to have done figures to get an idea of how it is going out there Krim so many thanks for that.

Not sure I get the dying wealthy bit, surely that no longer matters when dead?

What is the deal anyway I assume they get extra money go to their family if they don't make it?

Something tells me even my small earnings/wealth would look good against it particularly accounting for risk.


The vast majority of the orcs come from a background of poverty..they probably didn't have the money to flee the mobilization when it was announced.


So,i'm guessing that when you're lying there in the Ukrainian swamp,your leg blown off by a mortar round hitting you and bleeding out,you'd be thinking well at least i'm not gonna die poor,so at least i did something with my life .
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 27, 2023, 04:54:38 AM
Lukashenko has put his troops on full combat readiness.

Looks like idea might be that the part of Wagner that chose Belarus go there and join up with Lukashenko's forces and launch an attack on Ukraine from the north. My guess would be towards Lviv in an attempt to cut off the land border. Another attempt in Kyiv I think would be foolish considering the bad experience Russian troops had on that one.

If so it would open up a second front again thereby putting more pressure on Ukraine and possibly forcing them to halt the Counter-offensive in the east.

Potentially this may have been brought about/early by the attempted Wagner coup unsettling matters in Russia thereby Putler realising that he may not now have the time he did to gain victory in Ukraine.

Either that or Lukashenko is in fear of the Wagner troops being invited into Belarus lol.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 27, 2023, 09:19:17 AM
a murder of crows (chorny varonna) in moscow
is that a tactical nuke in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?

pootin can't remain in this spot much longer...
he has to make a decisive move SOON, he can't wait for Trump to save him
he needs to do something now to solidify his position BEFORE the election
cuz right now - he's LOSING in Ukraine with the momentum shifting away from him!!!

i still believe that novichok is the better choice compared to nukes
it makes a lot of sense for the world's militaries to switch to chemical and biological weapons of warfare compared to large resource consuming methods of warfare
like ships and armies, etc

pootin could pioneer this like the germans did with poison gas in WWI
if I were pootin, i'd novichok the crap outta the entire ukrainian military and get zelensky to in a massive country-wide novichok attack
and it'd be over and done with before NATO could react
the russian military just picks up the pieces of  whoever's still alive

then i'd phuqueing declare victory
and ride shirtless on a horse with a rifle slung across my back into kiev (new spelling)
as asia's oil, gas, and now wheat supplier
you people in asia want these resources? cash only...

oops...

postscript
based on my spread sheet analysis
if Ukraine can keep up the current pace until the end of summer
then Russia will have almost no tanks/artillery/rocket launchers left
and Ukraine's heavy brigades, about 50,000, who are currently training... are not even at the front yet
so imagine adding 50,000 fresh troops with western tanks while wagner is withdrawing to belarus

advice to ukrainians
flame throwers for taking Russian trenches
then create a telegram channel of russian soldiers burning alive (make sure the volume is all the way up!) and try to get 10 million hits in Russia with them before they're taken down

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 27, 2023, 05:59:57 PM
BBC news correspondent in Kyiv tonight asked on top military General type and f guy at a reception how it was going (the Counter-offensive) he gave a very slowly gesture. Better than losing ground or having the war going very slowly against you but not yet enough. Not likely as hoped by now seems to be the case for the Ukrainian Counter-offensive.

My guess is that the Ukrainians are likely losing similar numbers of troops to the Russians in the Counter-offensive. That seemed to be the case from a news report a week or so back when both sides were actively at it that it reported both sides were taking heavy losses. With the attacker usually more likely to take greater losses my guess is that Ukrainian & Russian losses are about the same rate accounting for likely better training, equipment, weapons & tactics on the Ukrainian side verses no so on the Russian side but dug in defensive positions and possibly higher troop numbers.

I think the Ukrainians really lost their chance by not moving and hammering the Russian troops with all they got (HIMARS, Storm Shadow, etc) early on in the Wagner rebellion. Had they used that to break the morale of the Russian troops many could have fled and Prigozhin seeing that would be emboldened to hold fast.

Ukrainians at this point need to just keep plugging away at their Counter-offensive, the opportunity has been missed but over time the Russians might still be worn down. An attack from Belarus is still a threat but they will just have to hope that doesn't happen and prepare for it  by recruiting enough troops to reinforce the lines there in case it does.

I agree that Putler is now likely sitting with less time to play with as a result of the Wagner rebellion farce. So he is likely to feel pushed into doing something soon to try and make a play for a victory to see off thoughts of his replacement. Getting Belarus to attack Ukraine is a strong possibility I think. Chemical or nuclear weapons are too much of an intellectual response for Russians I think they seem to like to slog it out man to man, thumping each other to prove who is the most strongest, chemicals & nukes doesn't give them the macho buzz they need to feel.

Something will come soon from the Russian side no doubt it seems.

Flame throwers are a horrific and terrible weapon that would strike fear into most enemies. I don't think Ukrainians would use them however as although it could freak out some Russian soldiers it's also likely to lose Ukraine support abroad as a barbaric and cruel method. So it could end up doing more damage than good as if Ukraine starts to look bad abroad and lose support so does it lose its supply of arms that it crucially relies upon.

So at the moment Ukraine's game is to make sure it hold in there by preparing itself well, continuing with the Counter-offensive in hope of a break through. It can't afford not to continue pushing the Russians back as long term matters are not likely to be on its side unless it gets lucky. I think Putler rather than Russia as a whole is on the brink at the moment and he looks wavery. That said it's uncertain who any replacement might be and what their position on the Ukraine war might be so I think for the time being he will likely be left but could become more of a puppet figurehead while perhaps the military take more control but we will have to see.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on June 28, 2023, 04:10:33 AM
Update from the general staff of the AFU this morning.


 The AFU are making advances in the directions of Melitopol,Bakhmut and Berdyansk.
Despite heavy resistance from the orcs the AFU is inflicting tremendous damage and losses on them and their equipment in those areas.
Title: Ukraine to become reefer paradise
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2023, 12:43:55 PM
http://www.obozrevatel.com/ukr/politics-news/zelenskij-zaklikav-deputativ-legalizuvati-v-ukraini-medichnij-kanabis.htm

so chill...

ukraine is now gonna be 420 friendly thanks to Zelenky's decree
AND...
English is to receive special language status in Ukraine....

dawg...
what more do you incels need?
Title: hope for incels?
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2023, 08:58:58 AM
post war - hope for incels?

so Ukraine, post-war is gonna have a MASSIVE wave of euphoria
and in addition, Ukraine is gonna be 420 friendly
AND English is gonna have 'protected' status

it's gonna be the ultimate wave for you incels to catch and ride in on
IF you're smart enuff!
but face it, most of ya'll are incels cuz ya ain't REALLY all that smart, ok? let's be honest here...

you smart incels can buy some land in some Ukrainian village
get a local girlfriend(s)
and grow high-end weed without the cops stealin half, cuz it's legal now!
and you can live like a freakin king
and I KNOW, it grows really, really well in Ukraine!!!
you could overgrow the russians

oh, and for the above to happen
Ukraine has to win of course

postscript
the results produced from audits of wagner and russian MOD will mean a lot of russian window cancer deaths in the near future
stay away from tall buildings and falling russians


Title: Re: hope for incels?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 29, 2023, 01:13:55 PM
post war - hope for incels?

so Ukraine, post-war is gonna have a MASSIVE wave of euphoria
and in addition, Ukraine is gonna be 420 friendly
AND English is gonna have 'protected' status

it's gonna be the ultimate wave for you incels to catch and ride in on
IF you're smart enuff!
but face it, most of ya'll are incels cuz ya ain't REALLY all that smart, ok? let's be honest here...

you smart incels can buy some land in some Ukrainian village
get a local girlfriend(s)
and grow high-end weed without the cops stealin half, cuz it's legal now!
and you can live like a freakin king
and I KNOW, it grows really, really well in Ukraine!!!

you could overgrow the russians

oh, and for the above to happen
Ukraine has to win of course

postscript
the results produced from audits of wagner and russian MOD will mean a lot of russian window cancer deaths in the near future
stay away from tall buildings and falling russians

Assuming you're not celebrating Hitler's birthday that sounds like a mission for you Krim. Might not be Moscow but likely better than the Baltics ;D

My guess is that to do best at it big time would require someone capable of getting the top nobs on side to get the big lucrative medical cannabis contracts if it's done that way. Otherwise too much risk of being still being deemed as operating illegally and the same old bribes if caught being needed I would guess.

Moving in now and getting set up in readiness in Ukraine so you've got your foot in the door ready for when they legalise medical cannabis would be the thing to do I would have thought to get in and get big early to avoid others getting in first and crowding out the market. That of course would be gambling on Ukraine winning. My guess that somewhere out in the country towards the east of the country would be the way to go.

That's a cracking painting Krim, is it one of yours?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2023, 01:53:08 PM
image not mine, I don't feel so inspired

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 01, 2023, 12:22:29 PM
News article today about the situation of the current Ukrainian Counter-offensive:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66075786

Doesn't feel great to estimate those that have been killed etc as a result of joining Armies but my guess is Ukraine may have lost around 200,000 troops by now and Russia around 300,000. Somewhere near towards those figures for both sides would be my guess.

I think both sides will be calling up more men as they are needed on a continuous rolling basis. I personally wouldn't blame anyone for doing a runner on either side as the future doesn't look great on either side on that one. My guess is that there probably aren't that many soldiers who were around at the start of the war still around now aside from those casualties that were maimed and similar.

Looks like Ukraine has recently changed its conscription/mobilization law probably with the aim of replacing men lost at the front:

http://visitukraine.today/blog/1974/conscription-age-cut-to-25-in-ukraine-what-will-change-and-how-will-it-affect-mobilisation

Here is a recent podcast I found from the BBC it details Ukrainian men fleeing serving in the Ukrainian Army by crossing the border to Romania:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0fstmlm

As stated of course the problem of desertion or draft dodging is worse on the Russian side but it is of course happening on both sides.
Title: This is the guy who's beating Putin!!
Post by: krimster2 on July 04, 2023, 06:25:10 AM
http://twitter.com/i/status/1675826262118481921

Zelensky's Victory Dance!!!

what ever you do - don't show this video to Putin!!!!
cuz this is the dewd who's beating the whole Russian army
and if Russians see this, it'll drive them INSANE!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 05, 2023, 04:24:15 AM
Russian losses are 8-10 times higher than Ukrainians.The counter-offensive is going to plan-the Commander of the Ground Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Oleksandr Syrskyi in an interview with ABC.


He also stated that Ukraine has not yet used it's main forces.
Bakhmut will definitely be released.
Today,the main goal is to deplete the enemy's forces in order to create a breakthrough on the front.
Russians are targeting western equipment.They try to destroy as much equipment as possible.This is a priority for them.


So,the orcs killed so far comes to 231,700....so that would mean the Ukrainians killed would be between 23,170 - 28,960.


Confirmed orc officers killed in Ukraine ,based on publicly available data from Russia via funeral notices,obituaries and news sites,now stands at 2,445 as at 3/7/23.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2023, 07:12:22 AM
Russian losses are 8-10 times higher than Ukrainians.The counter-offensive is going to plan-the Commander of the Ground Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Oleksandr Syrskyi in an interview with ABC.


He also stated that Ukraine has not yet used it's main forces.
Bakhmut will definitely be released.
Today,the main goal is to deplete the enemy's forces in order to create a breakthrough on the front.
Russians are targeting western equipment.They try to destroy as much equipment as possible.This is a priority for them.


So,the orcs killed so far comes to 231,700....so that would mean the Ukrainians killed would be between 23,170 - 28,960.


Confirmed orc officers killed in Ukraine ,based on publicly available data from Russia via funeral notices,obituaries and news sites,now stands at 2,445 as at 3/7/23.

Where do you get these figures from CB?

It would mean that each Ukrainian soldier has on average killed 8 - 10 orcs each and in return few of them getting killed. I would find those statistics quite astonishing. In Bakhmut against Wagner that may have been nearer the case as they were just throwing them in there to push Ukrainian troops back. However, from news reports apparently many Ukrainians lost their lives in Bakhmut as they were in many cases forced to confront the Wagner horde.

Both sides have artillery and while the Ukrainian artillery can fire further the orc artillery tends to be more numerous.

Western tanks I think have helped the Counter-offensive a little bit but I think there was too much emphasis on gaining western tanks by the Ukrainians. In this war the Ukrainians had already shown that tanks are too vulnerable to anti tank stuff. Possibly Ukraine might get lucky and find a weakness in the Russian lines and exploit it. I just wonder though if Russia has packed out there lines with superior troop numbers that may make it too difficult to fully crack them this time.

Essentially Ukraine likely has until the end of Summer to try and crack their lines so by October they need to have achieved that or likely stalemate until Spring next year. So likely a good 12-15 weeks or so for Ukraine to try and do it. Off course the West has to keep them stocked up with ammo and weapons all the while. Do if they don't do it this year then questions may start being asked over our ability to keep funding all the weapons & ammo supply whilst propping up Ukraine's economy too.

I still think that the likelihood of Russia opening up a second front particularly towards Lviv from Belarus is high. I don't see the pint in Wagner still recruiting for troops in Russia to go to Belarus otherwise. So possibly a joint Belarus/Wagner operation there.

I'm not ruling out Ukraine winning this war but I don't think they are having an easy time of it nor not sustaining heavy casualties.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 05, 2023, 09:32:15 AM
the russians value territory more than people
the ukrainians value people over territory

Ukraine doesn't have air superiority so it has a MUCH different fighting strategy then the armies i've served in, (USA/Israel)
Ukraine is fighting a non-asymetric war of attrition
meaning, it's depleting Russia's fighting resources much MORE than what Russia is depleting of Ukraine's
what that EXACT ratio is would be debatable and almost impossible to know
but you can see the truth of who values what and see how Ukraine is conducting this war in a very calculated and deliberate manner vrs whatever the hell it is that Russian "leadership" is doing

under putin's leadership the russian military was pillaged by oligarchs like everything else in russia
and this hollowed out military was further eroded by declining levels of training and service
this is not a military with any high standards at all and is almost worthless in actual combat, and best suited for civilian crowd control
russian leadership puts no value on them, and considers them totally expendable like toy soldiers in a war game

otoh, Zelensky meets with widows and orphans and gives them hugs and medals of honor
you can read his face and feel the pain like he does

cometh the hour, cometh the man
zelensky is the heroic court jester who slays the evil little dwarf king
watching Zelenky's films or music/dance videos 5 years ago on TV, who would have EVER imagined that this is the guy who's gonna take on putin mano-et-mano????
reality is much weirder than any story you ever read, innit?

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on July 05, 2023, 10:17:23 AM
the russians value territory more than people
the ukrainians value people over territory

Ukraine doesn't have air superiority so it has a MUCH different fighting strategy then the armies i've served in, (USA/Israel)
Ukraine is fighting a non-asymetric war of attrition
meaning, it's depleting Russia's fighting resources much MORE than what Russia is depleting of Ukraine's
what that EXACT ratio is would be debatable and almost impossible to know
but you can see the truth of who values what and see how Ukraine is conducting this war in a very calculated and deliberate manner vrs whatever the hell it is that Russian "leadership" is doing

under putin's leadership the russian military was pillaged by oligarchs like everything else in russia
and this hollowed out military was further eroded by declining levels of training and service
this is not a military with any high standards at all and is almost worthless in actual combat, and best suited for civilian crowd control
russian leadership puts no value on them, and considers them totally expendable like toy soldiers in a war game

otoh, Zelensky meets with widows and orphans and gives them hugs and medals of honor
you can read his face and feel the pain like he does

cometh the hour, cometh the man
zelensky is the heroic court jester who slays the evil little dwarf king
watching Zelenky's films or music/dance videos 5 years ago on TV, who would have EVER imagined that this is the guy who's gonna take on putin mano-et-mano????
reality is much weirder than any story you ever read, innit?

Great post. Well done krimster.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 05, 2023, 11:41:29 AM
accordin to the media
malchiki iz belogo poroshka
are already here in Babylon
first will be bolivian marchin powder THEN it'll be "somethin else"
the weakest link will be cut
the chain will no longer hold

putin needs to remove zelenksky and biden from the chess board - take 'em both completely outta the game
what grand master does he have to play by his side?
who can he trust to not phuque this up?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 05, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Where do you get these figures from CB?

It would mean that each Ukrainian soldier has on average killed 8 - 10 orcs each and in return few of them getting killed. I would find those statistics quite astonishing. In Bakhmut against Wagner that may have been nearer the case as they were just throwing them in there to push Ukrainian troops back. However, from news reports apparently many Ukrainians lost their lives in Bakhmut as they were in many cases forced to confront the Wagner horde.

Both sides have artillery and while the Ukrainian artillery can fire further the orc artillery tends to be more numerous.

Western tanks I think have helped the Counter-offensive a little bit but I think there was too much emphasis on gaining western tanks by the Ukrainians. In this war the Ukrainians had already shown that tanks are too vulnerable to anti tank stuff. Possibly Ukraine might get lucky and find a weakness in the Russian lines and exploit it. I just wonder though if Russia has packed out there lines with superior troop numbers that may make it too difficult to fully crack them this time.

Essentially Ukraine likely has until the end of Summer to try and crack their lines so by October they need to have achieved that or likely stalemate until Spring next year. So likely a good 12-15 weeks or so for Ukraine to try and do it. Off course the West has to keep them stocked up with ammo and weapons all the while. Do if they don't do it this year then questions may start being asked over our ability to keep funding all the weapons & ammo supply whilst propping up Ukraine's economy too.

I still think that the likelihood of Russia opening up a second front particularly towards Lviv from Belarus is high. I don't see the pint in Wagner still recruiting for troops in Russia to go to Belarus otherwise. So possibly a joint Belarus/Wagner operation there.

I'm not ruling out Ukraine winning this war but I don't think they are having an easy time of it nor not sustaining heavy casualties.


As i said the 8-10 times higher death figures for the orcs came from the Commander of the AFU Ground Forces ,Oleksandr Syrskyi,in his interview with ABC.


The 231,700 death toll for the orcs comes from the Ukrainian MOD.


I worked out the Ukrainian deaths from being 8-10 times less than the orcs,as stated by the AFU Ground Forces Commander.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 05, 2023, 01:04:52 PM
the russians value territory more than people
the ukrainians value people over territory

Ukraine doesn't have air superiority so it has a MUCH different fighting strategy then the armies i've served in, (USA/Israel)
Ukraine is fighting a non-asymetric war of attrition
meaning, it's depleting Russia's fighting resources much MORE than what Russia is depleting of Ukraine's
what that EXACT ratio is would be debatable and almost impossible to know
but you can see the truth of who values what and see how Ukraine is conducting this war in a very calculated and deliberate manner vrs whatever the hell it is that Russian "leadership" is doing

under putin's leadership the russian military was pillaged by oligarchs like everything else in russia
and this hollowed out military was further eroded by declining levels of training and service
this is not a military with any high standards at all and is almost worthless in actual combat, and best suited for civilian crowd control
russian leadership puts no value on them, and considers them totally expendable like toy soldiers in a war game

otoh, Zelensky meets with widows and orphans and gives them hugs and medals of honor
you can read his face and feel the pain like he does

cometh the hour, cometh the man
zelensky is the heroic court jester who slays the evil little dwarf king
watching Zelenky's films or music/dance videos 5 years ago on TV, who would have EVER imagined that this is the guy who's gonna take on putin mano-et-mano????
reality is much weirder than any story you ever read, innit?


Yes,regarding Zelensky,he looked like he aged ten years before our eyes when he went to Bucha to see what the orcs had done to his people there.


I've also seen a couple of videos where he's visited petrol stations to and from his visits to the frontline,and it's conspicuous how his people react to him....all of them...troops and civilians...want photo ops with him....and they ALL want to give him a hug as it's clear he's suffering big-time.


He actually mentioned the last trip to the front in one of his evening addresses,thanking people for the very warm words and hugs.


I wonder how many of his Russian people want to give Putler a warm hug ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 05, 2023, 02:06:21 PM
in the near future...
fleets of self-driving teslas will be packed with explosives
you lock the doors, then get your iphone and type in the destination address and click on the app's "GO" button
you can then track the progress of your car bomb on a map on your phone
fighting in the future is much easier than it is today
the Russo-Ukrainian war may be the last war fought with conventional weapons
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on July 05, 2023, 02:29:23 PM
Wiki has through May 2023:
20,000 killed, 130,000 wounded[/t]24 February 2022 – 21 May 2023US estimate[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-42K-76)[/size]
10,000–13,000 killed[/t]24 February – 1 December 2022Ukrainian government[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-77)[/size]

Other articles have similar numbers.
http://babel.ua/en/news/91790-the-secretary-of-the-national-security-council-refuted-wp-s-data-about-hundreds-of-thousands-of-losses-in-the-ranks-of-the-armed-forces
"On December 2, 2022, the adviser of the Office of the President, Mykhailo Podolyak, noted that the losses of the Ukrainian army amount to 10,000-13,000 soldiers. This was the last official data announced by the authorities."
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2023, 02:42:30 PM

As i said the 8-10 times higher death figures for the orcs came from the Commander of the AFU Ground Forces ,Oleksandr Syrskyi,in his interview with ABC.


The 231,700 death toll for the orcs comes from the Ukrainian MOD.


I worked out the Ukrainian deaths from being 8-10 times less than the orcs,as stated by the AFU Ground Forces Commander.

The 231,700 death toll for the orcs could be right. However I doubt the Ukrainian forces have had an 8 - 10 average kill ratio throughout from the beginning of the war. They might have achieved this ratio against Wagner & some parts of the Russian front briefly where conscripts were just thrown in to put pressure on the Ukrainian forces.

The Russians have undoubtedly lost many men and while not highly trained the Russians have always focused on larger numbers rather than skill at least from WWI & WWII days. So overwhelming and relentless numbers to overpower the enemy. I personally would wish Ukraine to win this one but I wouldn't count Russia as done yet. The longer this war goes on the stronger Russia may get at least militarily in terms of getting large troop numbers to the front and possibly improving troop performance as they pick up experience on the ground. Ukraine has skilled and effective units but it's heavily dependent on the west and at the moment no big break through like last year.

The biggest thing that stands out from Ukraine is that they haven't given any solid numbers for its own troop losses. If they were as small as you calculated from the 8 - 10 per 1 Ukrainian troop lost that would be absolutely something for the Ukrainians to shout from the rooftops about. Any loss is never nice but in war so few losses set against an enemy with huge troop losses would be a huge morale booster. Even a rough 'we've lost around 30,000 troops' would be an indescriminate figure to put out. Yet nothing like that, instead they are keeping deathly quiet on the troop loss figures. The only reason to do that is if the troop losses are quite high or very high.

A US General last year estimated that Ukraine had lost around 100,000 troops. I came up with that figure just before he announced it basically extrapolated from a weekly killed report from the front line troops and news articles from Ukrainian troops where it seemed their losses were about the same as the Russians at least where they were. So hence why I believe Ukrainians are losing many but don't wish to spoke their own people with the figures as let's face it that isn't going to help conscription efforts.

The large battles fought over Bakhmut and the now ongoing Counter-offensive leads me to believe Ukrainian troop losses are probably approaching 200,000 already if not already passed it. If it was approximately 100,000 after about 8-9 months of war then to my mind it stands to reason that as another 8-9 months has passed of intense action likely another 100,000 have fallen too.

Looks like Zelensky now is coming out that the Counter-offensive is struggling to make progress at the moment, the big wait over winter/spring being a mistake:

Exclusive: Zelensky says he wanted counteroffensive to start ‘much earlier’ to pre-empt Russian defenses.

http://www.cnn.com/2023/07/05/europe/zelensky-counteroffensive-ukraine-erin-burnett-interview-2-intl-cmd
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 06, 2023, 02:42:51 AM
As JohnDearGreen has posted above ,the last official data released by the Ukrainian authorities regarding AFU losses was on 2/12/22.


The AFU losses at that time were announced as 10,000- 13,000.


Bearing that figure in mind,my guesstimate of 23,170-28,960 total AFU losses  seven months later probably isn't far out.


On another note there was a train convoy of Russian T-55 Tanks travelling to the front through Russia shown on video yesterday,with even the local Russians saying "we're now having to use relics...we're farked ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 06, 2023, 06:18:23 AM
As JohnDearGreen has posted above ,the last official data released by the Ukrainian authorities regarding AFU losses was on 2/12/22.


The AFU losses at that time were announced as 10,000- 13,000.


Bearing that figure in mind,my guesstimate of 23,170-28,960 total AFU losses  seven months later probably isn't far out.


On another note there was a train convoy of Russian T-55 Tanks travelling to the front through Russia shown on video yesterday,with even the local Russians saying "we're now having to use relics...we're farked ".

I don't believe those released statistics on Ukrainian troop losses at all, we'll just have to disagree on that one but am pretty sure we'll find out at the end of this war whenever that will be. To my mind it stands to reason that if you're being charged by a large number of enemy firing guns you're likely to have significant losses also. Same as if you're assaulting enemy troop positions. The ones who don't make it don't get to upload their efforts to you tube.

Russia has apparently exhausted most of its stockpiles and now they are pretty much down to what they can produce a day, week, month, etc. Still they seem well entrenched in the Ukrainian territory the hold. Even if an attack is launch from Belarus we might well be in a stalemate war situation.

My guess is that Russia knows that the west supplying Ukraine with superior but more expensive weaponry and ammunition is costing it a lot. The war is costing Russia a lot also but the less sophisticated weaponry cheaper on cost. So potentially Russia looking to the west to become financially exhausted and fed up off funding a war that has become bogged down. Possibly with some nations unwilling or unable to continue supplying Ukraine due to financial difficulties. Unless Ukraine can secure a breakthrough soon this war may hang in the balance for some time to come.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 06, 2023, 07:28:41 AM
government expenditures on munitions causes the West's industrial output and GDP to rise - hardly a bad thing
Ukraine gets the ammo, Russia gets the casualties, and western arms companys get the money, jobs, and taxes  -  what doncha like about this deal?

meanwhile, USA also takes over oil and gas market in Europe, completely replacing Russia, which has seen its oil and gas revenue plunge 50% compared to a year ago!!

we're makin money like crazy off of Russia's war while they are losing it!!!

sit back and smoke a cigar...
cuz Prigozhin just returned to St Petes, and his weapons and money were returned
he is now under protection of the Tambovs
WTF is going on?

if wagner isn't goin to belarus, then where dem boys is goin? hmmmmmm....

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 06, 2023, 09:51:25 AM
This is from Bloomberg.




(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0WVZzzXgAQkzZ2?format=jpg&name=small)



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 06, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
government expenditures on munitions causes the West's industrial output and GDP to rise - hardly a bad thing
Ukraine gets the ammo, Russia gets the casualties, and western arms companys get the money, jobs, and taxes  -  what doncha like about this deal?

meanwhile, USA also takes over oil and gas market in Europe, completely replacing Russia, which has seen its oil and gas revenue plunge 50% compared to a year ago!!

we're makin money like crazy off of Russia's war while they are losing it!!!

sit back and smoke a cigar...
cuz Prigozhin just returned to St Petes, and his weapons and money were returned
he is now under protection of the Tambovs
WTF is going on?

if wagner isn't goin to belarus, then where dem boys is goin? hmmmmmm....

I doubt the extra tax money brought in matches western government expenditure, possibly the US gains more tax revenue from gains of sales of liquid gas etc in Europe. My guess is though after the cost of fighting COVID and western government spending on Ukraine many western countries must be hitting their debt ceiling. So how much longer can western government funding of this war last?

Remember US & UK pulled out of Afghanistan as apparently the money had run out. So how much longer can they really go on funding Ukraine?

I don't disagree with them funding Ukraine, I do approve of it but I'm just not sure how deep western governments pockets can go.

One thing I don't understand is how Prigozhin (assuming he flew alive) managed to fly to Moscow before flying to St. Pete's without being nabbed by Putler and his security forces/army, etc.

Apparently they now think Prigozhin flew back to Moscow on his plane before flying to Rostov (where he was staging the rebellion) assuming that he is still alive. I'm not sure why Putler would allow him to have such free reign of Russia after what he did.

If that is so and Prigozhin is still alive surely that could be dangerous for Putler in the future.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 10, 2023, 05:58:33 AM
The orcs are now trapped in Bakhmut.


"In Bakhmut ,our defenders have been keeping the entrances,exits and movement of the enemy through the city under fire control for several days.This became possible due to the fact that in the process of advancing ,our  troops took control of the main commanding heights around Bakhmut."


Deputy Minister of Defence Hanna Maliar.


With the town ruined by the orcs,i guess the AFU can now use HIMARS and  the captured Russian  TOS-1A thermobaric rocket launcher on the trapped orcs to obliterate them.Hopefully there will be a lot of trapped orcs there  >:D
Title: the connection between cocaine and perfume
Post by: krimster2 on July 10, 2023, 09:01:22 AM
http://www.upday.com/uk/weekend-dawn-sturgess-death-what-do-we-know-about-the-novichok-poisoning-five-years-on

Dawn Sturgis was in the purges
and they sang her dirges

the war can be won with a few well placed bottles of novichok spray
place a small amount of cocaine first, to test security check - done
now the chanel novichok #5

putin is biden his time before he applies eau de morte to zelensky
tambovs + 'consultants' are gonna do it all, no fsb/gru/svr
it's why putin wasn't allowed to kill prigozhin - tambovs blocked it and said no, and told putin, "give him his money back while your'at it", and the kremlin did so immediately!!
ya see why moscva is afraid of tambovs, pretty much all the children of moscva oligarchs live outside russia for security from tambovs
russians owe me for keeping their kids safe
I may end up collecting something interesting for this service




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 11, 2023, 04:22:28 AM
Stanislav Rzhitsky was assassinated during his morning run in Krasnodar.


Two shots in the back and two in the chest.


This is the charmer who was the second ranking Captain and Commander of the submarine Krasnodar..He shelled Ukraine with Kalibr missiles and was responsible for the missile attack on Vinnytsia on 14th July 2022 which left 25 civilians dead including 3 children.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0sccD4XsAAR3-F?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 11, 2023, 08:22:43 AM
a 'double-tap' from behind with one to the back of the head
is a 'signature' style  mob hit

so either they're 'touches finger to nose'
or they're professionals who understood WHY this is the best technique to use for a street assassination

either way, contrast that with russian polonium and novichok debacles
so whover is behind this isn't from the kremlin

the odessa 'mob' has DEEP connections into Russia
russian/ukrainian society is based on 'networks' of people
ergo the odessa mob has a huge network INSIDE Russia
because of Pootin, odessa mob and SBU are druzya and brat now
and every time a drone blows up in odesa, somebody in russia is gonna die
an there ain't nothin tambovs can do about that
there are millions of ukrainians living in russia
and some are crypto-ukraine supporters
and they get recruited
hmmmm hmmmmmm

the ukrainian 'hits' inside russia have been 'master-class'
the only country that does it better is Israel's Mossad
there is no one on earth better trained than a mossad assassin in a 'special unit' which takes years of increasingly difficult levels of training




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2023, 12:47:26 PM
Had to laugh at this:

'We're not Amazon’: Ben Wallace urges ‘gratitude’ from Ukraine as PM insists war-torn nation ‘incredibly grateful

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/ben-wallace-ukraine-amazon-weapons-comments/

Just like dating a Ukrainian chick always wanting more stuff  :ROFL:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 14, 2023, 07:43:41 AM
Yes,this sense of entitlement seems to be ingrained into a lot of Ukrainians...the land of prodating agency girls and dodgy dating agencies.


I brought this up previously on here when i was talking about the problems British families have been having with Ukrainian refugees living with them....no gratitude from the Ukrainians,just constant demands.


Sounds very familiar to what Ben Wallace has been saying ?


I've stopped my financial help directly to Ukrainians appealing for financial aid to buy stuff ,because they couldn't be bothered to even say a simple thank you to me...just one appeal after another.


They'd reach their targets for certain aid appeals and the same day it's "we have another urgent appeal to raise money for this ....let's go !".


It's like WTF.....what's happening to all the huge amounts of financial aid being sent to Ukraine by countries ?


Yes there's a war going on and they need help...but show some gratitude for the help you do get.


A couple of organizations outside of Ukraine,one based in the UK and one in Lithuania, who are running aid into Ukraine ,plus a Brit i know who's actually in Nikolaev delivering aid to the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, i still support.They all supply regular photo and video updates of where the aid is going to and they all make the effort to say thanks for the help they're getting.


As for the whining from the Ukrainians about being accepted into NATO...firstly it obviously can't be done while there's a war going on in their country or we'll all be dragged into it via article 5,and secondly the blatant corruption going on there needs to be extinguished ...it's still rampant during the war with a female MP taking bribes ,a deputy stealing land in Odesa with fake documents,pro-Russian collaborators all over the place,others stealing fuel to sell whilst pretending it's for the AFU troops,a senior female tax official caught with suitcases full of stolen tax money,a gang of men in Kharkiv pretending they're armed police looking for pro-russian collaborators and ransacking people's homes to find evidence/ steal from them...this is all just this week !


How can we let a country infested with corrupt officials, crooks and thieves into NATO ?


Imagine these white Nigerians being trusted with NATO arms and info after the war has ended...they'll be selling it to the Russians.


The Brit i mentioned has just done an aid run into Kherson.The troops and police were very reluctant to let him in because they're having so many problems with local people phoning the AFU positions into the Russians,and they thought he might be another pro-Russian collaborator spying until they realized he was a Brit.


What a shithole of a country when so many crooks and traitors live there.


Clean your country up....then we can talk about you joining NATO.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 14, 2023, 10:54:26 AM
Ukraine is about as corrupt as Turkey and Albania, which are both NATO members.  I don't think Ukraine expected immediate NATO ascension.  I think they're looking for a path.  I think the bigger issue would be Russian spies within Ukrainian delegations.  However, Germany is also rife with Russian spies, and I suspect some Eastern European nations are as well, so that may be relatively neutral.


The corruption in Ukraine is a direct result of Soviet rule.  Soviet systems encouraged corruption, lying and thievery.  The Baltics avoided this because for the most part, they were very ruled from Moscow, with an iron fist.  ALL the other former Soviet republics have similar levels of corruption.


I don't think Ukrainians are lacking in gratitude.  But how often should one express this?  Zelensky's job is to advocate for Ukraine, and he has done that exceedingly well.  What's to be expected?  Their soldiers are dying on the fronts, the West has stated they will help, and Ukraine asks for help so that the war can end sooner.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 14, 2023, 01:13:23 PM
Yes,for sure it's the Soviet influence that's led to Ukraine being so corrupt.


The Church of Russia,called Russian patriarchy in Ukraine ,can't do anything without approval from Moscow and  has a tremendously negative influence in Ukraine too.


From a female resident of Kyiv.


"The Russian Church is a way for them to make money.control people.and even turn them against Europe,the US ,or even Ukraine.Russian priests like expensive stuff when the church should teach the opposite.Some of them are former KGB agents.


Many "religious "  people couldn't even say they were Ukrainians.They called themselves Slavs.
Leave alone a huge amount of Russian propaganda about Novorosiya,Ukrainians and Russians being the same nation,anti-American propaganda and so on.Patriarch Krill said the same stupid things about mosquitoes and other things long before Russia started using the same statements to make people support the war.


Priests justify the war Russia started and also bless weapons and people to go to war."


There's a lot more about this religious organization ,but i've only posted the relevant part for a country who wants to join NATO.


This can't be allowed to be happening within a country that wants to join NATO,and the EU should be very careful about allowing Ukraine to become a member too as things stand.It's a breeding ground for terrorists.This church needs to be shut down as part of the required reforms in Ukraine and any Ukrainians/ethnic Russians who don't like it can move to Russia.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2023, 06:00:03 PM
Yes,this sense of entitlement seems to be ingrained into a lot of Ukrainians...the land of prodating agency girls and dodgy dating agencies.


I brought this up previously on here when i was talking about the problems British families have been having with Ukrainian refugees living with them....no gratitude from the Ukrainians,just constant demands.


Sounds very familiar to what Ben Wallace has been saying ?


I've stopped my financial help directly to Ukrainians appealing for financial aid to buy stuff ,because they couldn't be bothered to even say a simple thank you to me...just one appeal after another.


They'd reach their targets for certain aid appeals and the same day it's "we have another urgent appeal to raise money for this ....let's go !".


It's like WTF.....what's happening to all the huge amounts of financial aid being sent to Ukraine by countries ?


Yes there's a war going on and they need help...but show some gratitude for the help you do get.


A couple of organizations outside of Ukraine,one based in the UK and one in Lithuania, who are running aid into Ukraine ,plus a Brit i know who's actually in Nikolaev delivering aid to the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, i still support.They all supply regular photo and video updates of where the aid is going to and they all make the effort to say thanks for the help they're getting.


As for the whining from the Ukrainians about being accepted into NATO...firstly it obviously can't be done while there's a war going on in their country or we'll all be dragged into it via article 5,and secondly the blatant corruption going on there needs to be extinguished ...it's still rampant during the war with a female MP taking bribes ,a deputy stealing land in Odesa with fake documents,pro-Russian collaborators all over the place,others stealing fuel to sell whilst pretending it's for the AFU troops,a senior female tax official caught with suitcases full of stolen tax money,a gang of men in Kharkiv pretending they're armed police looking for pro-russian collaborators and ransacking people's homes to find evidence/ steal from them...this is all just this week !


How can we let a country infested with corrupt officials, crooks and thieves into NATO ?


Imagine these white Nigerians being trusted with NATO arms and info after the war has ended...they'll be selling it to the Russians.


The Brit i mentioned has just done an aid run into Kherson.The troops and police were very reluctant to let him in because they're having so many problems with local people phoning the AFU positions into the Russians,and they thought he might be another pro-Russian collaborator spying until they realized he was a Brit.


What a shithole of a country when so many crooks and traitors live there.


Clean your country up....then we can talk about you joining NATO.

Yep like I said before it threatens to be Ukraine's undoing. I think it must be a mentality out there, Kherson girl had it. It's like if they find out a person is open or willing to give stuff it's like, 'can we have more, can we have more, can we have more, etc, etc...'. I personally now think it's best not to get down into that whole rabbit hole by giving stuff in the first place, not at least until you know the girl/person. Otherwise I think they probably regard you as a mug or a bit easy for it and they never let up. Then as you've found buggering off is the only option.

I personally think that the poor Ukrainian guys on the front line likely never see anything of the stuff that's been donated. Their other halves, family, organizations out there, etc probably sell it off and buy the stuff they want for themselves with the money. I think the Ukrainian mentality is just that way geared it's nothing personal just how many of them are. Once you learnt about it you can adjust for it by not getting roped in, in the first place I think. Being nice and giving out there is basically taken advantage off, I don't think they have a concept of what it is about they just see it as weakness or something similar. At the start of both COVID and the war in Ukraine and a fair way into it I basically went to ground online. Sure I gave the odd token sum to a couple of aid organisations but that was about it. I didn't bother messaging chicks online, I took my profile down as I just new I would be in for a pointless appeal for stuff from loads of chicks all expressing how desperate they were in need. That's one whole deal best avoided I thought so decided to go off line to avoid all that carry on by them.

I don't think Ben Wallace was really saying that Zelensky was ungrateful but more the lot underneath him probably moreso on the military side. I can imagine the poor bugger doing the 11 hour journey just then to be shoved with a list of stuff they expected just for demanding it and showing him no gratitude. Much like if he did an 11 hour journey to meet a Ukrainian girl for her just to demand stuff of him on a date lol.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2023, 06:14:02 PM
Saw this article just now:

http://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/07/14/russia-armed-belarus-to-the-teeth-s-400s-tor-m2s-su-35s-mi-35s/

It's about how Belarus is upgrading it's military. Also in combination with its new nuclear deterrent from Russia. My guess is that Belarus didn't get involved last year as it feared being invaded by either NATO or countries such as Poland or possibly Ukraine in a counter attack. That and it's military might have been seen as a little under par anyway.

Now that they have nukes on their soil Belarus are now able to join the party. My guess is that they won't until they are pretty much through with ungrading most of their military and helped out with training from Wagner, etc. Possibly also expanded the size of its military. I think we can see from this though that the groundwork is being laid for Belarus to join the fight at some point likely in the near future. With the nukes in place and some of its military already upgraded, etc I think we can see that it's probably not far off. It may not be this Summer or even Winter but possibly Spring or Summer next year. No telling though, even this Summer/Autumn may be possible in a matter of weeks or so if they want to try and crack Ukraine. My best guess is though that they will wait until the majority of their army is upgraded and trained up etc to make best use of it.
Title: Lack of Thank You from FSU folks
Post by: ML on July 14, 2023, 07:16:43 PM
Yes, I was always quite irritated at lack of Thanks from both men and women in FSU.

However last week I did get this message from an acquaintance in Kyiv.

- - - - - -

Happy Independence Day to you XXX and all your family!
Thank you so much the USA for all its help to Ukraine!

Best wishes,

XXX and our big family.
Title: Re: Lack of Thank You from FSU folks
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 16, 2023, 07:42:50 AM
Yes, I was always quite irritated at lack of Thanks from both men and women in FSU.

I concur.  I think it is a cultural issue.

In the Western world, we have the concept of a "debt of gratitude."  If you are kind or generous to someone, (especially if you are getting nothing in return) we expect that they are obligated to express their thanks or try to reciprocate in some way. 

In Ukraine (and maybe the FSU) I get the impression they believe that if you are kind, they owe you nothing. (which often leads to men being taken advantage of, and feeling lead on.)  If they express their thanks, that is when they become obligated to you.

Women have also explained a fear of being given a gift, and then after they accept the gift, the giver will make demands of them.  (Perhaps analogous to a man taking a lady to dinner, and then expecting sex afterwards.)  I have sent aid packages to a lady in Ukraine.  Dried pasta, coffee, bath sponges, water purification tablets...humanitarian stuff like that.  I had complained that she wouldn't even say thank you when she received the packages.  That is when she explained that she was worried about what I would demand from her.  (I've met her and spent time with her. I'm not a complete stranger.)  Another time, I asked her what she wanted for her birthday.  She finally said that she knew I was going to get her something...so if I was going to give something, to make it a sleeping bag, and she showed me a couple examples of what she wanted. I couldn't decide which one to get, so I bought both at WalMart and sent them to her.  She was very angry when she opened the box. Why did I send 2? She finally realized that she could share one with another friend who needed one.  But I have noticed that her initial reaction to unexpected gifts is usually defensive and suspicious.  (I'm not sure if this is cultural or individual.)
She will now say something like, "I received the package. Thanks."  That is about the extent of her expression of gratitude, but it's a start.   

The lady also once told me that in Ukraine, if a man gives a girl money, he can ask for everything.  (She explained that a man could give a girl gifts of flowers or candy, but never money.) I don't know if she meant that if a man offered a lady money for her expenses, if she accepted then she must do whatever he demanded...or if a lady had to request the money from a man before she was obligated to do whatever he asked.

I haven't quite figured out what triggers the debt of gratitude in Ukrainian culture.  In Western culture, simply receiving/accepting a gift of kindness that we don't deserve triggers the debt of gratitude.  If I do you a favor, then you owe me a favor.  (It can be as simple as holding the door for a lady and smiling at her.  If she doesn't smile back and say thank you, we think she is rude.)  I haven't figured out what triggers the debt of gratitude in Ukraine, or if they even understand that concept.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 16, 2023, 07:56:26 AM
ukrainians are like turtles livin in their shell
not much gets through

the social graces do not flourish there
so don't EVER expect anythin like a display of 'gratitude' over your meager 'gifts'
cuz they know what they are REALLY, even if you don't...
it's called "quid pro quo"
you pay her a quid, and she gives ya some of her quo

you give little, you get little
since you don't seem to get it, please allow me to explain

they aren't GIFTS
they're payments for 'services rendered'
she's an on-line version of a japanese B-girl hustling customers pretending she 'likes' them, all part of the job
but you think you're in a 'relationship'

i don't know whether to laugh or cry (it's both funny and sad)
you're like a guy who walks into a strip bar, falls in love with the first stripper he sees and wants to date and marry her
WTF?
the pooty tang situation must be really, really bad at Hawg Hollar Estates to lead to such a development

all of life, is but an illusion anyway
don't feel bad about misperceiving your 'romance'


horrosho...
next question
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2023, 04:27:45 AM
ukrainians are like turtles livin in their shell
not much gets through

the social graces do not flourish there
so don't EVER expect anythin like a display of 'gratitude' over your meager 'gifts'
cuz they know what they are REALLY, even if you don't...
it's called "quid pro quo"
you pay her a quid, and she gives ya some of her quo

you give little, you get little
since you don't seem to get it, please allow me to explain

they aren't GIFTS
they're payments for 'services rendered'
she's an on-line version of a japanese B-girl hustling customers pretending she 'likes' them, all part of the job
but you think you're in a 'relationship'

i don't know whether to laugh or cry (it's both funny and sad)
you're like a guy who walks into a strip bar, falls in love with the first stripper he sees and wants to date and marry her
WTF?
the pooty tang situation must be really, really bad at Hawg Hollar Estates to lead to such a development

all of life, is but an illusion anyway
don't feel bad about misperceiving your 'romance'


horrosho...
next question

I get it, so if a guy abroad whether he has met the girl or not is sending her stuff then as far as she is concerned it's sent to render services. Those services may just be to keep chatting to a lonely guy possibly suggestive of love or send him some saucy photos, videos of her and stuff. So not necessarily any real relationship there just a punter if you like in a way.

When the guy is with the girl of course gifts can be given or asked for in return for sex. So not as direct as a prostitute asking money for sex but a 'you get what you want I get what I want' idea at some point kind of thing. So as has been said often the guy shouldn't be expectant of sex on giving a gift since the girl did not ask for one so she may not give it or perhaps refuse the gift. I'm guessing the customary gift you give a girl on meeting and she gives you back one is to cancel your gift out as a customary friendship gesture. Otherwise if she gave nothing back she would feel potential imposition to return the favour. Hence why some FSW don't like it when a guy gives a gift as above as they feel under an imposition to return the favour even if the guy sent it to be nice or as a kind gesture. The girl may of course not give sex even if it's expectant by the guy but she often doesn't feel right not doing so.

So aside from a customary exchange of gifts in a meet with a FSW that you may have just been messaging online for a WOVO. Then if you wish to pursue a long term relationship then the best thing to do is to just go out on dates. The guy not giving any gifts just paying for the cost of the dates with the girl (entertainment, eating out, etc) and her agreeing to further dates, and sex just coming by way of her attraction for you or perhaps just as the relationship moves along towards engagement proposal, marriage, etc.

The dinner date up front then perhaps more so on a WMVM is more likely to yield sex as you're not necessarily dating but  a kind of loose informal unspoken understanding that you are paying for dinner (hopefully not in McDonald's) and she may return the favour (gift of a nice dinner) by way of sex afterwards.

So I'm guessing the surest way of a progressing to a long term relationship is by not gift giving so you know the basis isn't quid pro quo. If she has sex with you without any gift giving just dates then she likes you a lot. However, my guess is that even the quid pro quo might lead to a long term relationship, marriage etc if she becomes reliant on your gifts, money you send and she sees you as a good prospect to get with maybe.

Am I right in all of this?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 17, 2023, 05:32:03 AM
Back on track with the title of this  thread . :)


Regarding the AFU counter-offensive,and the total liberated area in the south is now 179.5 square km.


I'm not sure where these liberated areas of the south are coming from because i thought the AFU had liberated all the southern areas on the west bank of the Dnipro river when they liberated the city of Kherson. ?


Are these newly liberated areas on the east bank of the Dnipro river..toward Melitopol and Berdyansk ,or around the Zaporizhzhia area.?


Tougher going in the east,with the total area now liberated standing at 31 square km.


These figures come from Deputy Minister of Defence of Ukraine Hanna Maliar.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 17, 2023, 07:58:52 AM
kerch bridge hit yet again!!!
the outgoing lane is GONE
there's a miles long backup of cars trying to flee
at the same time drones attacked sevastopol

crunching numbers in my spreadsheet
if ukraine doesn't make better progress on their offensive in the next 90 days
it'll run out of batterys before it can cut-off crimea

if this happens it means that by the end of the year, Putin and his army of Putin 'doubles' (who all sit at a big table and plot together) will change their focus to the upcoming elections
putin is much better at political engineering than he is at military planning (2016 election interference was GENUIS)
it's the pinacle of asymetrical warfare
use your enemy's own internal weaknesses to destroy them

I predict prominant deaths next year of sr political figures that alter the elections
only question is what poison will they use

yes, Trench you have understood....
good lad!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2023, 12:40:54 PM
yes, Trench you have understood....
good lad!

Great to have finally cracked it! :cheesy: After all these years.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 17, 2023, 12:43:31 PM
go have a pint!!!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2023, 12:54:25 PM
Back on track with the title of this  thread . :)


Regarding the AFU counter-offensive,and the total liberated area in the south is now 179.5 square km.


I'm not sure where these liberated areas of the south are coming from because i thought the AFU had liberated all the southern areas on the west bank of the Dnipro river when they liberated the city of Kherson. ?


Are these newly liberated areas on the east bank of the Dnipro river..toward Melitopol and Berdyansk ,or around the Zaporizhzhia area.?


Tougher going in the east,with the total area now liberated standing at 31 square km.


These figures come from Deputy Minister of Defence of Ukraine Hanna Maliar.

From a map I saw a day or so ago most of the retaken areas were either south towards Melitopol or east towards Donetsk. I don't think there was any east of Kherson (the river there) looks like blowing the dam put pay to any advancement there just one big swamp.

So yeah the areas on the map signified as retaken weren't huge in terms of in comparison to the land the Russians still hold. They seem closest to Donetsk but even that looks like a bit of ground to cover before being in contention for it. That would be a big win for Ukraine as it's kind of a rebel stronghold. The rest of the wins towards Melitopol looked small gains in comparison to what they would need to get up to those cities but theoretically it could add up over the days and weeks if they keep advancing. Main thing is at the moment the gains though they sound a fair bit aren't really all that much when you see it illustrated on a map. Mostly the AFU seems to have retaken farmland, villages and chicken coops. So some chickens will now end up chicken kyiv's the rest will end up chicken kiev's ;D

Looks like also Putler isn't allowing out any grain shipments this year either probably due to Turkey etc not keeping to agreements it had with Russia (azov battalion, etc). So guess Ukraine will have to transport whatever it can through EU countries instead.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2023, 03:53:28 PM
go have a pint!!!

In progress :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on July 17, 2023, 08:14:00 PM
 Tips for Russians evacuating Crimea,

 
@Gerashchenko_en
Russian tourist chats are full of panicked Russians who did not get the vacation they desired. I've translated some of their posts below.
-—
"Important information for those who are going to get out of Crimea by land route. The most important thing is to stock up on the necessary amount of water. Local "entrepreneurs" decided to take advantage of this situation and in order to enrich themselves increased the price by 8-10 times!
-—
Being on the territory of Crimea download offline maps, on the territory of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk regions, you can use mobile communication only if you have a SIM-card Phoenix, but there is an option to buy it right in the queue in front of the checkpoint, there they sell them for 2000 rubles.
-—
The situation with toilets is also miserable, free toilets at petrol stations have been closed, they justify themselves by saying that the influx of people is too large, you can make an agreement for 500 roubles, for children, pregnant women, disabled people and participants of the SMO the price is 400 roubles".
-—
"The first border has been passed. Customs. We fuelled up at the last Lukoil petrol station, but there are no toilets there. There are big traffic jams in the opposite direction, towards Rostov. Documents and passports and child's birth certificate were checked at the checkpoint. At the customs there is a toilet and a lot of people on foot with their bags, their bags are checked there like at the airport. For those with cars, only the documents."

-—
"Why didn't they say they guarantee safety on the land road to Crimea, if they can't protect the Crimean bridge, and it's a 50/50 ride there?"
-—
"Yes, Megaphone [cellphone service provider] is completely dead, it doesn't show anything."
-—
"Just yesterday I was thinking what a moron one should be to go on holiday to Crimea now.Well, now the holiday will definitely be remembered when they go home through the front.They are disrupting the logistics of our military with traffic jams, stupid faggots."
-—
"One thing that annoys me is that after the first time, the competent authorities swore that ordinary people have nothing to fear, that now combat dolphins, medusas, shrimps and plankton guard the bridge 50 hours a day. F**k, how did that happen? !!!!!! Did they screw up again? !!!!!!!!"
-—
"Are there gas stations along the road in the new territories?"  SureBandits, too, not just gas stations".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 18, 2023, 08:14:24 AM
damn...
ukraine's offensive ain't gonna succeed (completely cut-off crimea)
and ukraine is gonna run outta ammo
proving that in the upcoming war with china with conventional weapons, we could't fight on the ground for more than a couple of months without the same happening
china can out produce us by 10-to-1 in military hardware
BUT...
depends on sea transport for all raw materials for this military industrial complex
diplomats and submarines will put an end to that and the military-industrial complex
a war with china ain't gonna be a land war
it's gonna be a naval and diplomatic and cyber attack war
but if that don't resolve things
then yeah, it might go to EMP weapons
can you say "Farraday Shield"? I even have one on my lawnmower, and it's the push kind, that's how many Farraday Shields I have, my Farraday Shields even have shields
and i'm thinkin about puttin shields on them to

but you think the drone makers in odesa ever think about that?
apparently not...WTF....
Ukraine is going through 1,000 drones per day
average life span of a drone is less than 2 missions
the fields of ukraine are littered with drone debris
Julie Andrews is in fatigues and singin, "the hills are alive...with the sound of drones fly-ing"

can you imagine choreographing a musical about the Russo-Ukrainian war
you gotta put the 1812 overture in there somewhere
but when and by whom will the moment of triumph be revealed?
so far the play has kept that detail well hidden
cuz to me it looks like EVERYBODY is losing


so what does game theory say about zero sum games where both partys lose
in terms of achieving an optimal outcome
hint: chapter 7 of "Theory of Games and Economic Behavior" by J. Von Neuman

the goal is to force Russia to negotiate due to losses and denied of any hope of achieving victory
which means Ukraine IS gonna have to give up "something"

but this process won't start until late winter this year...
putin would like to have a deal by March 1, at the latest
the "March Surprize"

and if RasPootin can't pull this off
then his very last hope is to put a republican in the white house in november

how ya think he's gonna pull that off?

update:
since midnight only one lane is open on the kerch bridge
they alternate traffic directions
no heavy vehicles allowed
cars, vans, no 18 wheelers
all heavy traffic has to come by rail now
rail line was slightly damaged by the blast

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 21, 2023, 10:09:09 AM
Recent news article highlighting how Ukraine conflict's usage as a testing ground for the West's military equipment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66229336

Over the past few decades little chance to test our gear against a enemy that could get anywhere near us on a technology level. A lot of Russia's stuff is old Soviet stuff but some of our stuff was better technology quality that was just a bit newer or better.

So a lot of our Challenger 2 tanks never saw stuff that might take it out as they were impervious to rpg's. Seems to be doing ok in Ukraine as no bad stories so far. The French tanks by comparison Ukraine no longer wants as they are too light on the armour and easily destroyed making tank crews unhappy about manning them.

So what we learn in Ukraine will or should shsoecoyr forces going forward.

Already it's looking like tanks are out and ground troops with hand held anti tank gear, etc are in. Artillery looks to be back in favour since the first time since WWII even though it feels old Skool. So it's really just going with what works and relegating what doesn't as well as improving on design and training an army around the new way of working as well as countering the enemy.
Title: Oppenheimer
Post by: krimster2 on July 22, 2023, 07:22:08 AM
http://youtu.be/AdtLxlttrHg

in reality, Openheimer was more like Fred Rogers from Mr Roger's Neighborhood than Cillian Murphy (who is an Oirisch 'bad-ass')
watch the above video and then tell me how the ukrainian war is gonna end, horrosho

decisions that changed world history are always based on reducing reality to some simple calculation
if you know WHAT the calculation is - then you know the answer, and that leads you to know what decision is gonna be made
Rasputin is grappling with the same decision that Truman made with regard to the Atomic Bomb
a cost-benefit analysis


the collapse of the CCCP which began in 1991, isn't complete, until russia deteonates a new clear bomb in ukraine next year
then chechens and tatars will be runnin 'round the place with Taiga Tundra thumpers

ya'll gonna need 'my people' to deal with this
and I don't know if we're interested in 'your problems' unless there's somethin in it for us...
ain't no volunteers in my crew
we ain't yur Wagner Gopniks

Part Dva

Yet another mysterious death of a top-manager in Russia:
Anton Cherepennikov, owner of Russian IKS Holding, died. He was 40 years old. The preliminary cause of death, according to official sources, was a heart attack.

Cherepennikov's IKS Holding is the largest company in Russia in the area of informational security and operative-investigative systems (more commonly known as "wiretapping").

His company has been serving Russian law enforcement structures and controlled by them for a long time. It executed a lot of measures connected to "Yarovaya law" - requiring Internet and telephone companies to disclose private communications and data of their users. Cherepennikov took part in developing the face ID system in Moscow.

he be dead now holmes, like a WHOLE BUNCH of other ludie
which is why EVERYBODY'S chillin over here now
slovo te mamichka

but his death marks a new improvement in technique
overcoming the polonium and novichok fails
GRU gettin it's groove back with Kamera in Moscva
and ya'll know why

pootin has had purge after purge
vomiting top fsb and military officials
but his health isn't getting any better

soon, the medication of last resort will be used
radiation therapy

russki stariks just don't understand novichok chemotherapy
so they're against it, thought it worked better for 'special ops' than in warfare, even tried it covertly in syria
and since GRU phuqued it up in the UK, they don't even like it for that anymore

ya think any of them are gonna take the trouble to pour over the casualty statistics of WWI gas shells vrs explosive ones
and even primitive phosgene made artillery 10X more effective, novichok would be 1,000 times that
a binary novichok shell only gets its binary ingredients mixed when the 152mm artillery shell is spinnin
can be safely stored and handled by absolute dumb phuques fallin down drunk on home made vodka
nyet - they prefer nukes, makes better images
russians always base their decision on qualatative and not quanatative reasoning
it's why I consider them dumb phuques and always ran circles around them
"strength in numbers" is not a head count, it's about 'the power of arithemetic'
and these pridorki can't add or multiply, they only know how to divide and subtract

so you can imagine trying to explain Bayesian Decision Theory to these durrichki (throws up hands and walks away)

exit - stage left
FINIS

this insane rant by a deranged degenerate was brought to you by Powdermilk Biscuits available at your local supermarket
Has your family tried them, Powdermilk!
Well, if your family's tried 'em,
You know you've satisfied 'em,
They're a real hot item, Powdermilk!

and should also be considered as a 'cautionary tale' on the perils of abusing russian nootropic drugs
I also never shoulda done the ayahuasca at Auschwitz and walked around with a mirror and clear polaroid lenses, thinkin it would be a REALLY fun experiment...
IT WASN'T!!!




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 24, 2023, 03:40:08 AM
Latest figures from Hana Maliar.


192 square km's in the south, in the direction of Melitopol and Berdyansk, have now been liberated.


35 square km's in the east around Bakhmut have also been liberated.


The AFU counter offensive continues to live up to the title of this thread.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2023, 05:30:59 PM

At the front Ukraine is facing difficulty as I suggested it might several weeks ago as a result of waiting till late Spring/early Summer to start the offensive, the Russians are well dug in, huge multi layered mine fields, fortifications, etc and have gotten more cunning in the way it fights:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66306150

They are now luring Ukrainians into positions such as trenches and detonating radio controlled mines, nasty. One minute you're thinking great you're taking enemy positions then the next minute you're gone without a chance, real terrible for Ukrainian soldiers to face really.

So Ukrainian forces are trying to thrust towards the south, Melitopol, Mariupol, and east towards Donetsk. That was expected as the most strategic locations, but the Russians fully expected them to be coming and they're talking into this trap set by the Russians. Now if I were in charge of Ukrainian forces I would switch towards making the main thrust in the north, north of Donetsk and east of Kharkiv. The front is apparently a lot less mined there, far less fortifications. Sure it's the long way around but success likely easier, progress likely faster. Counterattack there and swing downwards towards Donetsk and follow on through. No guarantee of getting all the way down towards Mariupol, they might but main thing would be much land would be retaken which is better than very little of any significance. Best outcome they retake Mariupol and cut off Russian forces leaving them in a tenuous situation reliant on the Kerch bridge.

I think a lot of Ukraine's war woes at the moment is being predictable, on paper sound decisions but too well known about, expected. Ukraine has become too assured that western weapons & armaments will come good for them on the battlefield. They can do some good stuff but if the wrong strategy is used they'll struggle to overcome that just like the Russians struggled in the early part off their invasion by deploying the wrong strategy and hoping the force of their arms would overpower the Ukrainians whatever.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2023, 04:43:27 AM
The good news is that the scale of the orcs losses is becoming incalculable.


Just one recent example :


June 2 Chechen Akhmat 54th Brigade sent to Marinka.


July 10 Withdrawn and sent to Bakhmut as blocking troops.


July 17 Moved to the front to try and hold the crumbling defences.


July 27 Video appeal from 1st Battalion as they reveal out of 500 troops only 60 are still alive.


and there's more.


Russian sources are reporting the Russian 810th Naval infantry operating in the Orikhiv region has suffered heavy casualties,with death notices in July exceeding 100,based on an audit of publicly available info.

The confirmed total of orc officers killed in Ukraine since February 24th last year.based on publicly available data from Russia ,via funeral notices,obituaries and news sites,had risen to 2,571 by 26th July this year.  >:D

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 28, 2023, 06:42:54 AM
The good news is that the scale of the orcs losses is becoming incalculable.


Just one recent example :


June 2 Chechen Akhmat 54th Brigade sent to Marinka.


July 10 Withdrawn and sent to Bakhmut as blocking troops.


July 17 Moved to the front to try and hold the crumbling defences.


July 27 Video appeal from 1st Battalion as they reveal out of 500 troops only 60 are still alive.


and there's more.


Russian sources are reporting the Russian 810th Naval infantry operating in the Orikhiv region has suffered heavy casualties,with death notices in July exceeding 100,based on an audit of publicly available info.

The confirmed total of orc officers killed in Ukraine since February 24th last year.based on publicly available data from Russia ,via funeral notices,obituaries and news sites,had risen to 2,571 by 26th July this year.  >:D

Problem is Ukraine is also apparently suffering heavy losses in its Counter-offensive attempts. No figures have come out as they tend to be kept pretty quiet. I found the video of those poor Ukrainian soldiers jumping into that trench and the Russians detonating the mines there really quite shocking when they showed it on the BBC News yesterday. And stuff like that is happening all the time now. I'm glad I'm not at the front there, you wouldn't know when the next moment may be your last.

I'm personally erring on Russia having the upper hand as things stand at the moment not so much on the battlefront that's pretty much even stevens at the moment but on the grander campaign scale of things. They've seen the Ukrainians coming and the Ukrainian are now close minded in their aims. While Russia has gone a step further beyond and are now helping Belarus beef up it's army for an inevitable attack from the north at some point. My guess is that this time they will look to take and vlist the border area to deprive Ukraine of ammunition and weapons. They will know that Ukraine had a tenuous ammunition supply that will quickly run out with the speed at which the use it.

Ukraine said yesterday that they had a breakthrough one front but little more than them retaking a village has so far come about. Unless they do so soon or something in Russia happens then I think they need a real strategy overhaul and reassess the situation. I still think attacking east of Kharkiv would be best and work their way down thereby getting behind the enemy line and rolling up the whole line that way. Failing to make progress will just put Ukraine mord at risk as they could end up fighting in two fronts with Belarus in the north and that could prove too much for them.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2023, 10:02:16 AM
I wouldn't be too shocked at Ukrainian troops being blasted by mines as they jump into liberated trenches....the Ukrainians have been doing similar to the Russians,so can't complain about the tactic...in fact they may have given the Russians the idea,


In Bakhmut the Ukrainians were remotely detonating buildings as Russians entered them months ago,


The Ukrainians will now know not to jump into liberated trenches now..they can just use grenade launchers/mortars and fire them into the trenches to set any mines off....problem solved.


There will be no attack from Belarus into Ukraine....the Ukrainians have prepared very well for it and the Wagner and Belarusian troops would be slaughtered.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2023, 11:16:15 AM
More good news....increasing numbers of Russian troops are now refusing to fight.


The AFU General Staff : The number of refusals to participate in combat operations has increased in the units of the Russian occupation forces.


"About 60 Russian servicemen from the 247th Air Assault Regiment of the 7th Air Assault Division of the Russian Armed Forces refused to perform combat missions near the village of Staromayorske,the Donetsk region " - the statement says.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 28, 2023, 11:50:56 AM
russians have lots of educational material for how to perform "de-mining"
read it, and you to can have the knowledge of an average Russian 6 yr old student

Russian SpazNutZ are secretly blowin wads of scarce USD$, tryin to buy any western MANPAD they can  from the Ukrainian military (and THEY ALREADY HAVE SOME!)
next, they'll turn around and GIVE THEM AWAY Free-of-Charge to ISYS and Mexianan Cartels
who will target American Icons with thems
so  Fox can blame it on Biden
and raise Trump's Poll Numbers

Russian Fairy Tales are all filled with stories of how the "wise king" is besieged by stronger enemies
and defeats them through "trickery"
maya bubba told em to me

Russians eat this up like it's a slice of salo and a shot of vodka
haha, shoulda seen it when I showed Russians how to make Bacon
They freakin love it
in crimea and Russia, my daughters were master butchers who were well taught by their Crimean Grandfather
which is good, cuz whenever I see a bunch of blood and organs, it triggers memories and I lose focus
if you grow your own meat, you also have to know how to butcher it
after spending all day on it and hours of clean-up, I totally see why people in the West prefer white cellophane packages of meat

you in the "Oktober Country" boys
you don't know how lucky you are malchiky
back in the USSR

color me disillusioned about life in the west
the land of the not-so-free and home of the not-so-brave

living in Russia was VERY simple!
there are only two rules - just TWO!!!

1. never criticize somone above you
2. pay to your clan what they're at least entitled to, if not more (plus gifts) - in other words - DO NOT BE SELFISH AND GREEDY!!

just do that, and you can pretty much do whatever you want

A FUN GAME in Moscow City Center
Wear a 3-piece suit and walk into 4Seasons at breakfast
walk right up to the continental buffet and get yourself a plate

then figure out a way to get a free lunch
and then dinner

it was almost as much fun as walking across the Israeli/Jordanian border and stealing a car when I was a teen
damn my girl friend was impressed and hell yes, we made out in the car






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 28, 2023, 12:56:24 PM

There will be no attack from Belarus into Ukraine....the Ukrainians have prepared very well for it and the Wagner and Belarusian troops would be slaughtered.

Is that really any different to the Ukrainians attacking the fortified, dug in and mined Russian positions at present?

Situation will be much the same, Belarus will attack and just endure whatever there is. Like Russia there is only so much Ukraine can mine and fortify their positions. It's effective as we have seen from Russia doing so as opposed to them not. Belarus will just throw themselves at them as Ukrainians are now doing against Russians and take whatever slow progress there may be. For sure it's likely to be slow progress but even if they don't break through they will put Ukraine under greater pressure. Ukraine will end up using more ammunition, having to replace more soldiers, spend more and generally divert resources their armies then having to be split more evenly between two fronts.

That's all a potential headache for Ukraine as how long can they keep that up for? If the west get increasing costs for propping up the Ukrainian war effort then the strain will likely start to tell. I don't see Ukraine doing so well and lasting under such circumstances. That's why Ukraine need to make a break through this year ideally. If they can't do it in the next few days going as they are then counterattacking over the softer territory east of Kharkiv then down would be best for them I think. Go through the door rather than trying to go through the wall next to it by keep headbutting the wall in effect.

I don't think people necessarily see that the war is potentially turning against Ukraine even as they press their current Counter-offensive the way they are.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 28, 2023, 01:05:26 PM

living in Russia was VERY simple!
there are only two rules - just TWO!!!

1. never criticize somone above you
2. pay to your clan what they're at least entitled to, if not more (plus gifts) - in other words - DO NOT BE SELFISH AND GREEDY!!

Yes knowing when to keep mouth shut out there seems to be what is required. Fortunately though I am usually good enough at spotting when to do that. You lose nothing by keeping your mouth shut and not peeing off those in power as opening mouth tends to not have any positive effect anyway.

Is the clan system common in Russia? Makes me think of Scotland in Braveheart times all the different clans & kilts etc. I guess it's how the Oligarch almost feudal system came about again out there post USSR. As you've said about the Oligarch system like Putler, gifts have got to be keep being given or the Oligarchy get restless and that's not good news for the Oligarch at the top.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on July 28, 2023, 01:11:50 PM
russians have lots of educational material for how to perform "de-mining"
read it, and you to can have the knowledge of an average Russian 6 yr old student

It is good that the children are being trained to recognize, avoid, and report mines. What a sorry efffen world we live in.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 28, 2023, 01:30:42 PM
"Is the clan system common in Russia?"

oh yeah-h-h-h-h
especially at the top level of Russian society
no wealthy russian is an island unto himself
A russian Clan is more like the Japanese Keiretsu, than them tartan wearin, haggis eatin fellers up north

for lower levels of Russian society, it's kinda like America was 100 yrs ago
very tightly woven social networks
somebody knows a guy, who knows a guy, who sells his mamichka's radiskos, on the ulitsa behind you
and since you just happen to love those big ones, you take advantage of this info..
and you tell your druzya as well

if you can connect yourself to one of these big Russian social networks over there
your days of being without "pooty tang" would be over immediately

because, over there, , It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single western man in Russia, must be in want of a wife
and they will shop you around like a bag of radishes, until they find a "buyer" who will "owe them" for this discovery

but that...
that was all pre-war
now, they'll think you're some kinda Javelin salesman and act accordingl
especially after the Russian Ministry of Defense starts listing dead soldiers as "missing"
so they don't have to pay out the insurance money to the family, so it can instead be stolen by some well connected clan in Moscva


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2023, 06:02:54 PM
Is that really any different to the Ukrainians attacking the fortified, dug in and mined Russian positions at present?

Situation will be much the same, Belarus will attack and just endure whatever there is. Like Russia there is only so much Ukraine can mine and fortify their positions. It's effective as we have seen from Russia doing so as opposed to them not. Belarus will just throw themselves at them as Ukrainians are now doing against Russians and take whatever slow progress there may be. For sure it's likely to be slow progress but even if they don't break through they will put Ukraine under greater pressure. Ukraine will end up using more ammunition, having to replace more soldiers, spend more and generally divert resources their armies then having to be split more evenly between two fronts.

That's all a potential headache for Ukraine as how long can they keep that up for? If the west get increasing costs for propping up the Ukrainian war effort then the strain will likely start to tell. I don't see Ukraine doing so well and lasting under such circumstances. That's why Ukraine need to make a break through this year ideally. If they can't do it in the next few days going as they are then counterattacking over the softer territory east of Kharkiv then down would be best for them I think. Go through the door rather than trying to go through the wall next to it by keep headbutting the wall in effect.

I don't think people necessarily see that the war is potentially turning against Ukraine even as they press their current Counter-offensive the way they are.


Well yeah there's a huge difference in that the orcs don't have HIMARS to hit AFU troops stuck in minefields with.


The orcs can't really hit AFU troops stuck in minefields because their artillery is outranged by AFU artillery and will be destroyed with precision counter-fire.


No such problem for the Ukrainians though....they can hit the Wagner and Belarusian troops stuck in minefields whilst they're eating cake and biscuits and drinking tea and coffee,..it'll be finished within three or four days.


It took Wagner troops nine months to take Bakhmut and they weren't left exposed out in the open as they will be at the Ukrainian border.


Imagine the carnage inflicted on 62k Belarusian and 5k Wagner troops  stuck in minefields at the Ukrainian border,rockets raining down on them...it'll be like napalm attacks magnified twenty times over. >:D


Not even the Russian tv propagandists are contemplating the thought of Ukraine being invaded by Wagner troops via Belarus..even they're not that daft.


No doubt the AFU will be smiling at the thought and saying "bring it on "...Lukashenko will be left totally vulnerable to the Belarusian dissidents,and Putler won't be able to send enough troops in to save him because they're all busy dying in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 28, 2023, 06:21:50 PM
It is good that the children are being trained to recognize, avoid, and report mines. What a sorry efffen world we live in.


Russian schoolchildren from 11 years old up now have to learn how to load and use Kalashnikov's as part of their school curriculum too .


Putler is turning Russia into North Korea.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 28, 2023, 07:37:59 PM
I imagine the power point presentation was like:

da, we can shorten basic training by 4 weeks, one month, which saves about 25,000 rubles per recruit by simply training them as  volunteer "students" provided by regional school budgets

all students, must now be enrolled in the mandatory class on "Ask Not What The Government Can Do for You - Instead ask what you can do for the govenment to keep your ass outta jail"
which, if you're Russian, you probably already know what the answer is...

ras, vas, tree

we're all just
prisoners of LOVE
with the Blue Sky ABOVE

drones flyin over the black sea
all fly gracefully high o-ver me

and...
huh? what??
awright...awright...mumble...
 




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2023, 02:50:45 AM

Well yeah there's a huge difference in that the orcs don't have HIMARS to hit AFU troops stuck in minefields with.


The orcs can't really hit AFU troops stuck in minefields because their artillery is outranged by AFU artillery and will be destroyed with precision counter-fire.


No such problem for the Ukrainians though....they can hit the Wagner and Belarusian troops stuck in minefields whilst they're eating cake and biscuits and drinking tea and coffee,..it'll be finished within three or four days.


It took Wagner troops nine months to take Bakhmut and they weren't left exposed out in the open as they will be at the Ukrainian border.


Imagine the carnage inflicted on 62k Belarusian and 5k Wagner troops  stuck in minefields at the Ukrainian border,rockets raining down on them...it'll be like napalm attacks magnified twenty times over. >:D


Not even the Russian tv propagandists are contemplating the thought of Ukraine being invaded by Wagner troops via Belarus..even they're not that daft.


No doubt the AFU will be smiling at the thought and saying "bring it on "...Lukashenko will be left totally vulnerable to the Belarusian dissidents,and Putler won't be able to send enough troops in to save him because they're all busy dying in Ukraine.

CB allow me to raise your intellectual quota ceiling here ;D

Why do you think Wagner are training Belarusian soldiers for?

To deal with dissidents? No that's just the cover story they can deal with dissidents well enough already with what they've got and have been for years. The Belarusian police and KGB are enough to deal with dissidents never mind the army. So they're training them for another reason and there's only one reason for training an army up better - you're either going to attack or you fear being attacked.

Putler has made claims about Russia wanting to attack Belarus. I don't think that's at all likely, Poland would be condemned by it's EU & NATO counterparts and risk being thrown out of either or both. Belarus would be an odd but of territory to tack onto Poland it would be like some awkward looking bit stuck on the side and Belarus has Belarusian rather than Polish people residing in it. In short it's too much of a headache and bother for Poland which they don't want nor need. Poland itself is of large enough territory for them not to see themselves as needing more nor are they that bothered about Lukashenko to go to war over with him.

So that leaves Belarus training up its military and fir one purpose only, to attack Ukraine. No way is Ukraine going to attack Belarus and give Russia the excuse to go full out against Ukraine with all its git, nukes included. So it can only be that Belarus is going to attack Ukraine. Remember too that it is getting a while load of new armaments from Russia to beef up it's military too plus is having nukes put on its soil. So why go to all that expense if it is not going to be used? My guess is also that Belarus will start recruiting more soldiers on the quiet also probably expanding their soldiers from 62k to 100k and possibly beyond.

Their attacks on the Ukrainian border will most likely reflect Ukraine's. Not all forces will be committed upfront to avoid the scenario you suggest. Instead small forces will move forward to clear the minefield slowly bit by bit. When they are destroyed more small groups will be sent forward and so on. Who knows maybe even dissidents fron the prisons will be told to walk into the minefield to set them off or face being shot in a human shield type of operation. It won't be fast progress but like Ukraine's current Counter-offensive they will keep gnawing away at it. For Belarus it's not a problem they will be using up Ukraine's ammunition and drawing it's forces from the eastern front so that alone is useful for Russia.

HIMARS won't be off a lot of use there either, Ukraine won't fire them into Belarus like it doesn't fire them into Russia as the terms of being supplied them. The missiles are too expensive usually to use on ground troops unless there is a real good reason. So Belarusian troop numbers sent forward will be too small for it. They may use artillery to hit Belarusian troops and they may destroy them but then they are using ammo and destroying it's minefield for them. Also even though Belarusian artillery has less range it's not so much difference that they couldn't manoeuvre some artillery into range to counterattack even if it later gets destroyed.

Remember a military victory by Belarus is not necessarily needed here. Causing Ukraine to further draw on its resources to answer the attack may be more than enough. If Russia can push the cost of the war up then for how long can Ukraine & the west sustain that cost? On ground troops alone Ukraine would have to recruit and sustain a larger army to successfully defend on two fronts over a prolonged period. My guess is that it will be quite a financial strain doing that.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2023, 02:58:14 AM
"Is the clan system common in Russia?"

oh yeah-h-h-h-h
especially at the top level of Russian society
no wealthy russian is an island unto himself
A russian Clan is more like the Japanese Keiretsu, than them tartan wearin, haggis eatin fellers up north

for lower levels of Russian society, it's kinda like America was 100 yrs ago
very tightly woven social networks
somebody knows a guy, who knows a guy, who sells his mamichka's radiskos, on the ulitsa behind you
and since you just happen to love those big ones, you take advantage of this info..
and you tell your druzya as well

if you can connect yourself to one of these big Russian social networks over there
your days of being without "pooty tang" would be over immediately

because, over there, , It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single western man in Russia, must be in want of a wife
and they will shop you around like a bag of radishes, until they find a "buyer" who will "owe them" for this discovery

but that...
that was all pre-war
now, they'll think you're some kinda Javelin salesman and act accordingl
especially after the Russian Ministry of Defense starts listing dead soldiers as "missing"
so they don't have to pay out the insurance money to the family, so it can instead be stolen by some well connected clan in Moscva

Ah, so a Russian clan is more like business associate groupings. Do such clans have names?

The info on the friends associate network is interesting. That's the sort of cultural stuff that is interesting to know about. Ask Boe about cultural stuff and it will be all the arts, literature, classical music, etc ;D

What's the best way to get into one of these friends networks? I mean beyond the obvious of getting a friend who is connected to one lol.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2023, 05:35:58 AM
Good article on the current state of play at the Ukrainian front I think:

http://www.cnn.com/2023/07/29/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive-south-push-intl/index.html

Looks like Russia isn't bothering rotating it's troops but instead mixing in new recruits so the experience is passed on rather than risk rotating to fresh new recruits who might break and run for it or be pushed back.

Ukraine looks like it's taking a cautious approach clearing the minefield rather than risking it's soldiers. If this was Wagner they would probably just order their cannon fodder prison troops in and clear the way by being blown up by the mines for a more speedy advance.

As the article stares Ukraine's approach has allowed Russia to assemble troops to counter attack in the north. Ukraine could have had an easy in there if they had decided to attack their fight. Countering the counter attack there is still a possibility though I think and may suit Ukraine better than its current offensive in the south and the east.

As the article shows the Ukrainians are only just getting past some of the minefield to Russia's heavily fortified positions so it's not likely to get any easier for them, possibly harder. However once they finish clearing enough mines that may allow the bulk of its forces to come forward, buy I think them waiting in reserve all this time had been a mistake when they could have been put to better use in the north, east of Kharkiv.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 29, 2023, 07:59:02 AM
Russian and Ukrainian clans are all "regional" top-down organizations
tied to a common CEO , it really is a conglomerate of "interests" under a common roof, or krisha
in Russia everything has to have a krisha, or it gets washed away sooner or later
you don't pay your krisha, one day you could lose everything, even your life, this ALMOST happened to me

I am now connected through marriage to  the Solntsevskaya Bratva
named after the Solntsevo District in Moscow (a wealthy district)
it'd be like sayin you're in the  "Beverly Hills Mob" in the USA or the Greenwich Village Mob
if you are what people refer to as "British" ya might be in the Kensington or Chelsea mob
if you were in the Essex mob, you would't even tell anyone about it over embaressment
and you Trench, you have no ties to any clan, no loyalty 'cept to thine own self
you're not really part of any community

as I remember the midlands, they had these big dirty lookin red and brown brick industrial wasteland cities (the old empty mills were a great place to play in and throw rocks at the other kids)
once I hit puberty, I noticed...
that there were a LOT of sexually promiscuous women out prowling the club areas after dark like they're cats in heat
they liked to travel in small groups
these were all lower middle class chicks lookin for an "escape" by getting drunk and laid

"hello ladies, enjoying the night air are we...???
"Greetings, I am a wealthy "country bumpkin" American Tourist, who is also a virgin, will I be safe in this area??
you don't say it, you ACT IT!!
like choppin steak and throwin it to a school of sharks



I used to operate through Russian clan proxies, I don't do anything there now..
but here in the USA, we are all connected

I provide child protective custody services for the clan and help them "transition" into being trans-Americans (the land of don't say Gay or Goy)
Russians in the clan all respect my skills and trust me more than they would trust ANY Russian

before the war, I only got LOVE, from the Russian people, they didn't really view me as entirely American
more like they would a Russian who went to live there, but returned to the rodina

russians wanna throw my ass in jail, why? because of all the crimes I committed?
NO, I always pay my krisha
no, because it's the only way I'd ever work for them again
and they are freakin desperate

a wounded bear is a VERY dangerous creature to stand next to
I recommend being as far away as poosible
North America seems Nice!

if you spoke posh received pronunciation well
you could get one of them Seville Row suits
fly to New York
cruise the singles bars
you'd get hits
Marry the girl, become a US citizen, triple your income over here...
you got a better plan, then let's hear it!

or wear a simple black suit if you can do John Lenon or Paul Mcartney in a Karaoke bar

I did Karaoke like 30 yr ago, and often got invited to tables of girls...
and I'd tag along with them for the night, and leave after breakfast
those were good times, let me tell ya

hardly any young people live like this today where I live, they're too self-absorbed with their Instagram profile
and their future in the "real world"  just gets worse over time

your destiny isn't virtual
to make it real
requires real effort

not to even try just means you're either too dumb or too lazy to try

I give you the zen slap of enlightenment

smart people (I'm not sayin any of ya'll are IDIOTS, cuz I wouldn't want to hurt somebody's delicate fee-fees here)
will choose their spouses when they're young and not middle-aged!

why? because that's when they're at their PEAK Sexual Market Value
and as a result, they get TOP PRICE for what "they're sellin"

OK?

what you got?
and how much ya think that's worth...

but, I have not come to appraise Trench....
but to ferry him,
to the next level




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2023, 12:38:51 PM
Russian and Ukrainian clans are all "regional" top-down organizations
tied to a common CEO , it really is a conglomerate of "interests" under a common roof, or krisha
in Russia everything has to have a krisha, or it gets washed away sooner or later
you don't pay your krisha, one day you could lose everything, even your life, this ALMOST happened to me

I am now connected through marriage to  the Solntsevskaya Bratva
named after the Solntsevo District in Moscow (a wealthy district)
it'd be like sayin you're in the  "Beverly Hills Mob" in the USA or the Greenwich Village Mob
if you are what people refer to as "British" ya might be in the Kensington or Chelsea mob
if you were in the Essex mob, you would't even tell anyone about it over embaressment
and you Trench, you have no ties to any clan, no loyalty 'cept to thine own self
you're not really part of any community

as I remember the midlands, they had these big dirty lookin red and brown brick industrial wasteland cities (the old empty mills were a great place to play in and throw rocks at the other kids)
once I hit puberty, I noticed...
that there were a LOT of sexually promiscuous women out prowling the club areas after dark like they're cats in heat
they liked to travel in small groups
these were all lower middle class chicks lookin for an "escape" by getting drunk and laid

"hello ladies, enjoying the night air are we...???
"Greetings, I am a wealthy "country bumpkin" American Tourist, who is also a virgin, will I be safe in this area??
you don't say it, you ACT IT!!
like choppin steak and throwin it to a school of sharks



I used to operate through Russian clan proxies, I don't do anything there now..
but here in the USA, we are all connected

I provide child protective custody services for the clan and help them "transition" into being trans-Americans (the land of don't say Gay or Goy)
Russians in the clan all respect my skills and trust me more than they would trust ANY Russian

before the war, I only got LOVE, from the Russian people, they didn't really view me as entirely American
more like they would a Russian who went to live there, but returned to the rodina

russians wanna throw my ass in jail, why? because of all the crimes I committed?
NO, I always pay my krisha
no, because it's the only way I'd ever work for them again
and they are freakin desperate

a wounded bear is a VERY dangerous creature to stand next to
I recommend being as far away as poosible
North America seems Nice!

if you spoke posh received pronunciation well
you could get one of them Seville Row suits
fly to New York
cruise the singles bars
you'd get hits
Marry the girl, become a US citizen, triple your income over here...
you got a better plan, then let's hear it!

or wear a simple black suit if you can do John Lenon or Paul Mcartney in a Karaoke bar

I did Karaoke like 30 yr ago, and often got invited to tables of girls...
and I'd tag along with them for the night, and leave after breakfast
those were good times, let me tell ya

hardly any young people live like this today where I live, they're too self-absorbed with their Instagram profile
and their future in the "real world"  just gets worse over time

your destiny isn't virtual
to make it real
requires real effort

not to even try just means you're either too dumb or too lazy to try

I give you the zen slap of enlightenment

smart people (I'm not sayin any of ya'll are IDIOTS, cuz I wouldn't want to hurt somebody's delicate fee-fees here)
will choose their spouses when they're young and not middle-aged!

why? because that's when they're at their PEAK Sexual Market Value
and as a result, they get TOP PRICE for what "they're sellin"

OK?

what you got?
and how much ya think that's worth...

but, I have not come to appraise Trench....
but to ferry him,
to the next level

That's interesting stuff Krim, I always wondered how the Oligarchy system worked out there, I mean apart from the guy at the top.

Are you sure you're in the right brotherhood though? Looked up Solntsevo District on Google Maps and it seems a bit on the periphery of Moscow so perhaps not all that important?

For me though just direct me to the bratva with the hottest babes :P

I know you said in the past the ultimate choice was your daughters but was there any other options on the table? Other bratva's of interest?

How about Roman Abramovich what bratva does he head up?

Well for me the American idea isn't a bad one in theory. I've always loved the American cheerleader girl culture :D My family are kind of over here though but it's a thought to bear in mind. Would have to watch with getting the right American girl as most western women you've kind of got to be careful off.

Interesting one with the age thing, in theory it does but then may depend on the individual. Technology is changing stuff too, when I was in my teens, twenties & thirties I wore glasses, now I don't at all. Some girls have a real beef over guys who wear glasses like they may do over shirt guys or bald guys. Girls now will be able to see that I don't bald, etc. Plus over innovations that can tip the balance that weren't around when I was younger, filler for example. Sure too much filler, a bad job isn't that great but it can be better than the old plastic surgery stuff that used to look pretty bad. I've not got any of that done yet as though I don't look real young I don't think I look too old for my age.

Once I've finished this house I should hopefully be able to work on myself a bit more as well as get out there. I think you're right though too many youngsters missing out on living their life in the real world by wasting it on the online world.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 29, 2023, 02:29:40 PM
moscow has many  other clans, not just that one, only a couple of big ones, and more smaller
Abramovich is in a clan, really, I had no idea, and KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 30, 2023, 04:16:11 AM
CB allow me to raise your intellectual quota ceiling here ;D

Why do you think Wagner are training Belarusian soldiers for?

To deal with dissidents? No that's just the cover story they can deal with dissidents well enough already with what they've got and have been for years. The Belarusian police and KGB are enough to deal with dissidents never mind the army. So they're training them for another reason and there's only one reason for training an army up better - you're either going to attack or you fear being attacked.

Putler has made claims about Russia wanting to attack Belarus. I don't think that's at all likely, Poland would be condemned by it's EU & NATO counterparts and risk being thrown out of either or both. Belarus would be an odd but of territory to tack onto Poland it would be like some awkward looking bit stuck on the side and Belarus has Belarusian rather than Polish people residing in it. In short it's too much of a headache and bother for Poland which they don't want nor need. Poland itself is of large enough territory for them not to see themselves as needing more nor are they that bothered about Lukashenko to go to war over with him.

So that leaves Belarus training up its military and fir one purpose only, to attack Ukraine. No way is Ukraine going to attack Belarus and give Russia the excuse to go full out against Ukraine with all its git, nukes included. So it can only be that Belarus is going to attack Ukraine. Remember too that it is getting a while load of new armaments from Russia to beef up it's military too plus is having nukes put on its soil. So why go to all that expense if it is not going to be used? My guess is also that Belarus will start recruiting more soldiers on the quiet also probably expanding their soldiers from 62k to 100k and possibly beyond.

Their attacks on the Ukrainian border will most likely reflect Ukraine's. Not all forces will be committed upfront to avoid the scenario you suggest. Instead small forces will move forward to clear the minefield slowly bit by bit. When they are destroyed more small groups will be sent forward and so on. Who knows maybe even dissidents fron the prisons will be told to walk into the minefield to set them off or face being shot in a human shield type of operation. It won't be fast progress but like Ukraine's current Counter-offensive they will keep gnawing away at it. For Belarus it's not a problem they will be using up Ukraine's ammunition and drawing it's forces from the eastern front so that alone is useful for Russia.

HIMARS won't be off a lot of use there either, Ukraine won't fire them into Belarus like it doesn't fire them into Russia as the terms of being supplied them. The missiles are too expensive usually to use on ground troops unless there is a real good reason. So Belarusian troop numbers sent forward will be too small for it. They may use artillery to hit Belarusian troops and they may destroy them but then they are using ammo and destroying it's minefield for them. Also even though Belarusian artillery has less range it's not so much difference that they couldn't manoeuvre some artillery into range to counterattack even if it later gets destroyed.

Remember a military victory by Belarus is not necessarily needed here. Causing Ukraine to further draw on its resources to answer the attack may be more than enough. If Russia can push the cost of the war up then for how long can Ukraine & the west sustain that cost? On ground troops alone Ukraine would have to recruit and sustain a larger army to successfully defend on two fronts over a prolonged period. My guess is that it will be quite a financial strain doing that.


Trench..let me raise your awareness . :)


Why do you think the UK has some of the best-trained forces in the world ?


Who are we intending to attack or who are we afraid of invading us ?


Likewise the USA.


The reality is the Belarusian army is shambolic....poorly trained and low in morale and motivation.They even start crying when the Ukrainian border guards make threatening gestures at them.


If Lukashenko believes the Putler BS then he will be nervous about NATO forces invading Belarus,and of course his army now has a nuclear arsenal to protect.


Why do you think this training started directly after Putler shipped nuclear missiles to Belarus ?  Think about it..


I also previously posted on here about the Suwalki Gap....which Wagner is far more likely to go for than your fantasies about Belarusian troops invading Ukraine,and would be another reason for Wagner being in Poland.


Well guess what ?


The Poles are now going to double the size of their army to around 300 thousand to strengthen their borders they claim.


Yesterday the Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki says that more than 100 "Wagnerians" has gone toward the Suwalki Gap connecting Poland with the Baltic States.
According to him they will be disguised as Belarusian border guards and will help illegal immigrants to enter the country and destabilize the situation in Poland.
Morawiecki called it an "unconditional step" towards a further hybrid attack on Poland.


I would hope you're aware that the Polish Ambassador to France has already said that Poland will enter the conflict in Ukraine,if they feel that Ukraine is unable to keep it's sovereign  territory.


See Trench you need to learn about everything that's happening,rather than focus on your one banging the drum scenario.


You were caught out making this huge mistake at the start of the orc invasion of Ukraine,with all your talk of the mighty Russians  thermobaric weapons blasting little Ukraine to smithereens,with Ukraine falling quickly, and i had to put you right then...and here you are doing the same thing 17 months later...you need to learn from your mistakes.


Try looking at the bigger picture.


Here endeth your lesson. :)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 30, 2023, 04:55:01 AM
Russian and Ukrainian clans are all "regional" top-down organizations
tied to a common CEO , it really is a conglomerate of "interests" under a common roof, or krisha
in Russia everything has to have a krisha, or it gets washed away sooner or later
you don't pay your krisha, one day you could lose everything, even your life, this ALMOST happened to me

I am now connected through marriage to  the Solntsevskaya Bratva
named after the Solntsevo District in Moscow (a wealthy district)
it'd be like sayin you're in the  "Beverly Hills Mob" in the USA or the Greenwich Village Mob
if you are what people refer to as "British" ya might be in the Kensington or Chelsea mob
if you were in the Essex mob, you would't even tell anyone about it over embaressment
and you Trench, you have no ties to any clan, no loyalty 'cept to thine own self
you're not really part of any community

as I remember the midlands, they had these big dirty lookin red and brown brick industrial wasteland cities (the old empty mills were a great place to play in and throw rocks at the other kids)
once I hit puberty, I noticed...
that there were a LOT of sexually promiscuous women out prowling the club areas after dark like they're cats in heat
they liked to travel in small groups
these were all lower middle class chicks lookin for an "escape" by getting drunk and laid

"hello ladies, enjoying the night air are we...???
"Greetings, I am a wealthy "country bumpkin" American Tourist, who is also a virgin, will I be safe in this area??
you don't say it, you ACT IT!!
like choppin steak and throwin it to a school of sharks



I used to operate through Russian clan proxies, I don't do anything there now..
but here in the USA, we are all connected

I provide child protective custody services for the clan and help them "transition" into being trans-Americans (the land of don't say Gay or Goy)
Russians in the clan all respect my skills and trust me more than they would trust ANY Russian

before the war, I only got LOVE, from the Russian people, they didn't really view me as entirely American
more like they would a Russian who went to live there, but returned to the rodina

russians wanna throw my ass in jail, why? because of all the crimes I committed?
NO, I always pay my krisha
no, because it's the only way I'd ever work for them again
and they are freakin desperate

a wounded bear is a VERY dangerous creature to stand next to
I recommend being as far away as poosible
North America seems Nice!

if you spoke posh received pronunciation well
you could get one of them Seville Row suits
fly to New York
cruise the singles bars
you'd get hits
Marry the girl, become a US citizen, triple your income over here...
you got a better plan, then let's hear it!

or wear a simple black suit if you can do John Lenon or Paul Mcartney in a Karaoke bar

I did Karaoke like 30 yr ago, and often got invited to tables of girls...
and I'd tag along with them for the night, and leave after breakfast
those were good times, let me tell ya

hardly any young people live like this today where I live, they're too self-absorbed with their Instagram profile
and their future in the "real world"  just gets worse over time

your destiny isn't virtual
to make it real
requires real effort

not to even try just means you're either too dumb or too lazy to try

I give you the zen slap of enlightenment

smart people (I'm not sayin any of ya'll are IDIOTS, cuz I wouldn't want to hurt somebody's delicate fee-fees here)
will choose their spouses when they're young and not middle-aged!

why? because that's when they're at their PEAK Sexual Market Value
and as a result, they get TOP PRICE for what "they're sellin"

OK?

what you got?
and how much ya think that's worth...

but, I have not come to appraise Trench....
but to ferry him,
to the next level


Don't be so dismissive of the Essex mob.....successful movies have been made about them. :)


"Rise of the footsoldier " and it's many associated spin-offs is a good place to start


Read about the Adams family too,originally from Islington,north London,many of whom are Essex boys.


Rather than being embarrassed to tell anybody who they are,people finding out who they are would instil fear.in those people.


I made two big mistakes in my life.


One was trusting the wrong woman.


The second one was to decline an invitation to join an Essex mob of seven guys when i came out of the Fleet Air Arm.
The members of that mob were never caught by the law...and are all now multi-millionaires living the dream all around the world.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 30, 2023, 08:33:19 AM
moscow has many  other clans, not just that one, only a couple of big ones, and more smaller
Abramovich is in a clan, really, I had no idea, and KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT

Lol, well sounds like they are plenty to choose from either that or getting with a Scottish clan with some awful tartan, a tough choice!

So with the krisha do you have to pay it even if not in Russia or Ukraine? That would make my wallet squeak a bit I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 30, 2023, 08:43:58 AM
Essex Mob?
whadda they do?
counterfeit Bingo Cards, and filter red diesel to clean with kitty litter?
aye laddie...

Kray brothers were so succuusful they became money launderers for the Vegas mob's cash to invest in the UK
every successful mob operation, eventually becomes  a hedge fund management firm
just look around at 'em all in London and New York

the US military had various "internal organizations" to take advantage of the drug trade in the golden triangle in SE Asia, mucho, mucho, dinero back in the 70s!!!
but first we had to displace the Chinese triads
our mission
remove competition
by fighting "communism"
sweet....
this was before all the action switched to cocaine in thee 80s and a different branch of the military and CIA took over in this new (for them) venue
they used some of the cash to finance covert ops, and some to finance their bank accounts
don't we all though?
FSB and CIA. it don't matter, cept for what language
same game, same rules


we all lived like kings over there, and I was just `18
but pullin down a grown man's  income and had to figure out what to do with all the cash
and learn to live a 'low profile'
so i've been doin it for quite awhile
and just recently retired from "bizness"

the military mobs are MUCH better operated than the street hooligan drug gangs
much, much less violence, much better operational secuity, and much better at deflecting FEDS
result = they make more as well
the barrier to entry, is being in the militaery, this keeps out most of the 'wankers'
it makes management of human resources so much more efficient with this approach compared to alternatives
and this effect of 'simplifying' a very complex and dangerous business, is what makes it so popular



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 30, 2023, 08:45:16 AM

Trench..let me raise your awareness . :)


Why do you think the UK has some of the best-trained forces in the world ?


Who are we intending to attack or who are we afraid of invading us ?


Likewise the USA.


The reality is the Belarusian army is shambolic....poorly trained and low in morale and motivation.They even start crying when the Ukrainian border guards make threatening gestures at them.


If Lukashenko believes the Putler BS then he will be nervous about NATO forces invading Belarus,and of course his army now has a nuclear arsenal to protect.


Why do you think this training started directly after Putler shipped nuclear missiles to Belarus ?  Think about it..


I also previously posted on here about the Suwalki Gap....which Wagner is far more likely to go for than your fantasies about Belarusian troops invading Ukraine,and would be another reason for Wagner being in Poland.


Well guess what ?


The Poles are now going to double the size of their army to around 300 thousand to strengthen their borders they claim.


Yesterday the Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki says that more than 100 "Wagnerians" has gone toward the Suwalki Gap connecting Poland with the Baltic States.
According to him they will be disguised as Belarusian border guards and will help illegal immigrants to enter the country and destabilize the situation in Poland.
Morawiecki called it an "unconditional step" towards a further hybrid attack on Poland.


I would hope you're aware that the Polish Ambassador to France has already said that Poland will enter the conflict in Ukraine,if they feel that Ukraine is unable to keep it's sovereign  territory.


See Trench you need to learn about everything that's happening,rather than focus on your one banging the drum scenario.


You were caught out making this huge mistake at the start of the orc invasion of Ukraine,with all your talk of the mighty Russians  thermobaric weapons blasting little Ukraine to smithereens,with Ukraine falling quickly, and i had to put you right then...and here you are doing the same thing 17 months later...you need to learn from your mistakes.


Try looking at the bigger picture.


Here endeth your lesson. :)

Let's not forget I was one of the few that predicted Russia would attack and been right in most other aspects of the campaign as it developed. The only two I was misplaced on was two strategic blunders on the part of Russia, one was not sending any troops down the Polish/Ukrainian the other was not obliterating Ukraine's troops at time of invasion with whatever was necessary to achieve the job, thermostatic, chemicals, mini nukes, etc. There was a third error that Russia made and that was not having enough troops in reserve to quickly bring up, so you're not putting your army in piecemeal but instead more effectively as one big army.

I don't see anything happening between Belarus, Russia & Poland or Poland invading Ukraine it's all noise on both sides. Belarus & Russia are happy to stir it up a bit as it gives them a good ruse to take attention away from their plan to attack Ukraine from the north. The more Ukraine believes it's some Polish or insurrection fear thing the more it will be willing to take troops away from that area and deploy them to the eastern/southern front.

So you see CB the only gap to worry about here is between those two ears ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 30, 2023, 08:58:06 AM
the apostles of Trench
will convey his words of wisdom
meant to forwarn the good peoples of the world
of the dangers of the dwarf's army

and like Cassandra his words went unheeded
and fair Camelot is no more

Oswald in Minsk, considering the ramifications of "Divine Power"
the wizard of Oz
don't look at the man behind the curtain
he doesn't want ya to know it's really him
magic is all about trickin simple village folks with illusions...
while the rest of us smirk at the effort




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 30, 2023, 11:00:11 AM
Essex Mob?
whadda they do?
counterfeit Bingo Cards, and filter red diesel to clean with kitty litter?
aye laddie...

Kray brothers were so succuusful they became money launderers for the Vegas mob's cash to invest in the UK
every successful mob operation, eventually becomes  a hedge fund management firm
just look around at 'em all in London and New York

the US military had various "internal organizations" to take advantage of the drug trade in the golden triangle in SE Asia, mucho, mucho, dinero back in the 70s!!!
but first we had to displace the Chinese triads
our mission
remove competition
by fighting "communism"
sweet....
this was before all the action switched to cocaine in thee 80s and a different branch of the military and CIA took over in this new (for them) venue
they used some of the cash to finance covert ops, and some to finance their bank accounts
don't we all though?
FSB and CIA. it don't matter, cept for what language
same game, same rules


we all lived like kings over there, and I was just `18
but pullin down a grown man's  income and had to figure out what to do with all the cash
and learn to live a 'low profile'
so i've been doin it for quite awhile
and just recently retired from "bizness"

the military mobs are MUCH better operated than the street hooligan drug gangs
much, much less violence, much better operational secuity, and much better at deflecting FEDS
result = they make more as well
the barrier to entry, is being in the militaery, this keeps out most of the 'wankers'
it makes management of human resources so much more efficient with this approach compared to alternatives
and this effect of 'simplifying' a very complex and dangerous business, is what makes it so popular


What did they do ?



They ran a car-ringing gang out of an east-end lockup.


Only high-end cars such as E-type Jags,Aston Martins,Ferraris and Lambo's.


Never got caught and when they retired from the game they left seven Ferrari's in the, by then bigger premises, with the note "To the old bill..thanks for never catching us and as a thank you here's our gifts to you ".
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 30, 2023, 11:15:15 AM
Let's not forget I was one of the few that predicted Russia would attack and been right in most other aspects of the campaign as it developed. The only two I was misplaced on was two strategic blunders on the part of Russia, one was not sending any troops down the Polish/Ukrainian the other was not obliterating Ukraine's troops at time of invasion with whatever was necessary to achieve the job, thermostatic, chemicals, mini nukes, etc. There was a third error that Russia made and that was not having enough troops in reserve to quickly bring up, so you're not putting your army in piecemeal but instead more effectively as one big army.

I don't see anything happening between Belarus, Russia & Poland or Poland invading Ukraine it's all noise on both sides. Belarus & Russia are happy to stir it up a bit as it gives them a good ruse to take attention away from their plan to attack Ukraine from the north. The more Ukraine believes it's some Polish or insurrection fear thing the more it will be willing to take troops away from that area and deploy them to the eastern/southern front.

So you see CB the only gap to worry about here is between those two ears ;D


I also said Russia would invade Ukraine,so that doesn't make you some kind of mastermind.


You never gave the answer as to why the UK and USA both have well-trained forces i noticed.


Are they intending to attack someone or do they fear being attacked ? As per your reason as to why Lukashenko wants a well-trained army.


If Poland gets involved in the conflict it won't be to invade Ukraine,it will be to assist Ukraine in the war against Russia,and this is something Putler fears..hence why he's sending Wagner troops to the Polish border with Belarus...to keep Poland on the back-foot.


It's called strategy Trench..clearly something you need to learn about. ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 30, 2023, 12:10:43 PM
tool of a professional...
easily disassembles into a collection of mechanical componets
customs will look at the pieces and nod, cuz it AIN'T a FIREARM, it's an airgun, and a completely field strpped air gun, looks completely harmless in your luggage
you can bring a handpump to fill the cylinder instead of a compressor, but it takes awhile
a headshot at 100 meters will penetrate through one side and out the other
a silencer, called a "shroud" for pneumatic weapons, makes it as loud as slamming a book shut
here in the USA, I can buy it off EBay
add a Gen III night vision scope
wear completely black clothing with a black face mask
and after a few months of night training
be a night time killin machine against well armed but lesser equipped opponents
and do so with a perfectly legal weapon in the USA or Russia (but not Western Europe)
and be a Stalker in the Zone

when the red army invaded poland the same time the Nazis did,
the Soviet spoils of war/fruits of victory
included the Electrit Zavod in Poland, which was likely Poland's largest electrpnics mfg in '39
picked it up lock stock barrel and even old gum wrappers
and dropped it all off in Minsk
in the 50s and 60s Soviets put a lot of resouces into this factory to produce both military and civilian radios, they made good products, all the old model sets are highly collecible today, including the models Oswald himself tested
the place has a weird ambience
usual soviet industrial green color scheme
cool lookin old, old handmade test equipment, production machinery leaking oil cuz it's so old and worn out
but the people...
they all seem unusual and it makes me uncomfortable
like the boss is watching
and that's the other thing
the factory has "two worlds" two realities
one from thre people on the facory floor, and another for the people in the back room who run the place, and the people elsewhere who run them
and they are as different as night is from day


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 30, 2023, 01:46:40 PM
The existence of "clans" is nothing new.  It's a nascent step in urban capitalism.  Think of prohibition era gangsters in the U.S.


FSU "clans" are extensions of the former nomenklatura.  This is more so in Russia than Ukraine, because in Russia, they have been subsumed into state organs.  That is far less so in Ukraine.  But "clans" control Ukrainian cities as well.  Kyiv is controlled by four "clans", each controlling a separate sector of the city. 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 30, 2023, 02:22:39 PM
yeah, the Odesa mob is a sad little affair now
moved from drug and weapon smuggling to real estate and politics where the real money is

big branch of theirs in Brighton Beach, NY, so called "liitle Odessa"
Soviet Jewish Emigrees turned into nouveax riche bourgeois Americans
almost a caricature of the "ugly jew" that fits perfectly with the rest of New York's wealthy

but the seeds of destruction will be sewn by all faiths and creeds
the judgement written into the LAWS of Fizzics

Here, dear gentle readers of RWD, here are words of a true prophet
A British woman wrote these words in the 1850s, before computers, before radio, lights, cars...
a damned smart woman who figured out the TRUTH on her own in 1856, and tried to warn us
read them, and then weep, for it fortells the end of your world

the years of plenty
will be followed by a painful drought
but pharoh, did not store grain for the people
so the people all came for the pharoh's grain, cuz they had nothin to lose
this is what "eat the rich" means

the rich
privitize the surplus
and the poor
are sent the bill to pay for it

but these topics ain't gonna get discussed a whole lot
cuz the real struggle ain't oligarchs vrs lower/middle class in either Russia or Amerika
no...no...no...
it's transexuals vrs the traditional order
and guess who wants to kiss the majority's ASS at election time?

and this is what you christians settled for, hating on "immorals"
instead of tryin to do somethin to make people's lives better
this is how you used your power
to persecute, instead of aiding

ya'll can't judge me, without me turning around
and reciprocating
the moral judgement of the judged and the judge
never shall agree



but, please accept
only my compliments and kindest regards
I fully acknowledge your socially dominant position
and my own humble, inferiority

I avert my eyes in your presence
but I just won't shut my mouth

I fear NO EVIL







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on July 30, 2023, 11:18:11 PM
Good article on the Russian mindset.

I think this is very accurate.

http://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-negotiate-russia-peace-war/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 31, 2023, 03:22:04 AM
Ukraine/Ukraine orthodox church has apparently now moved their Christmas to the 25th December like ours, makes it easier for us westerners I guess to not to have to deal with two Christmas's when conversing with the girls from there. Moreso if Ukraine ever survives this one.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on July 31, 2023, 07:40:48 AM
two countries, Russia/Ukraine
only one will still be there 5 yrs from now...
how much are you willing to bet on Ukraine?
and what happens if you lose the bet?

Trench...
yeah christmas on 25th!
english is a protected language
weed is legal
pooty tang EVERYWHERE

if I were a young man, I KNOW fer real where i'd be livin, and it sure as hell wouldn't be in my MAMA's village
you a mama's boy Trench?
she makes you puddin for dessert or somethin?

why the hell doncha wanna get the hell outta there and go see the world?

I left home soon as I was old enuff to drive a car
and I could drive to NYC from Arlington, Virginia
and spend the weekend with my girlfriend
and she paid all my expenses and bought the booze cuz she was old enuff and I wasn't
thy're strict there!

you won't have that problem in ukraine, slava ukrai-ee-na
just buy some land
grow some weed
and find yourself a pretty mama who will dance with her daddy all night long
while you play some funky dixie band
pretty mama gonna take you by your hand

kinda lyrical ain't it
or ya can do the "same ole, same ole"
in your same ole familar, comfortable surroundings
which, in reality, is probably what you will end up doing

at the bottom of your tomb stone
it will be so inscribed

"if only he had another week...he would have finished it"

time cuts sharper than any knife
and the wounds never heal

if you don't start livin your life in SOME active style that provides you social contact
then your current plan isn't any better than just sitting idely, passively waiting for life to evolve, after mixing some random amino acids together so you can have sex with it!
(disclaimer: I am not liable for the results, if anyone reading this attempts this process on their own)

necessity is the mother of invention Trench
start thinkin and then start doin
raise your probabilities and you raise your possibilities

you fail, because of a lack of trying hard enough
you're passive
and not active

this causes you to do too little
and to do it too late

don't you see, you are your own worse enemy
and it's cuz you're LAZY Trench

Russian and Ukrainian women are REPELLED by this
the first moment they see this in you, and  I imagine in a "face-to-face" meeting, it will manifest to them in different ways
but "they'll get it"
and the moment that happens, they're done with you, at best they may try to scam you

the problem "ain't the world Trench"
it's your lack of effort
you always take the easy road
and that path never really leads anywhere

you need to change direction
and go on a path you never been before
whadda ya got to lose, except your virginity?
ohhhhhhhhhhh
I get it NOW!!!

WOW!
but hey, no one should really be judgemental towards you
none of us, least of all me, is perfect
we are all somewhere on the spectrum of humanity
it's ok..

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on July 31, 2023, 07:08:20 PM
The AFU counter-offensive must be going well now.


Medvedev is threatening to use nukes if it's successful. :rolleyes:


USA has responded by saying if Russia does then Russia is in the sh*t. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2023, 01:30:49 AM
They waited too long and are too timid in risking casualties:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/the-russians-were-waiting-us-ukraine-troops-describe-tougher-fight-than-expected-2023-07-31/

So Ukraine being too cautious could be it's undoing. The longer the war goes on the less favourable circumstances are likely to be towards Ukraine as the West are only going to support them so long, Putler knows that. If Ukraine wants to save it's nation they are going to have to press in harder now, risk higher casualties and try and retake a lit more land before Summer is over.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 02, 2023, 02:40:38 AM
I was reading a report from a Ukrainian soldier at the front.


He was saying it's easy to blame the slower than expected counter-offensive on mines and having to wait for the promised military equipment and weapons from the west,but nobody talks about the elephant in the room.


That being that a lot of the Ukrainian senior officers are incompetent and still using a Soviet style mentality.


He was saying it's all very well giving Ukrainian troops and NCO's NATO style training..but no-one is training the senior officers making the decisions.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 02, 2023, 08:28:11 AM
easy to criticize
try fighting in an environment where there's a mine every square meter (this war will produce tens of thousands of paraplegic young men = opportunity for Trench?)
where you don't have air superiority or even air support
and you're outnumbered in everything

in the last 2 months, Ukraine has taken hundreds of Russian artillery pieces and rocket launchers off the board (with ammo made in Pennsylvania)
if they hadn't, when they launch their main attack with their reserves, they would have been cut to pieces, but now Russian forces are seriously degraded
it raises the probability of success that a small force (< 50,000) will be able to succeed without getting flattened by the Russians first, otherwise Ukraine would need a lot more men than what they have

biggest problem now is ammunition
the war is a monster that swallows a mountain of ammunition every day
it's already eaten everything in sight, except for Diego Garcia, and we gotta keep that for the Chinese and Iranians

it's why I think that in the future this style of warfare will be on the way out
and a new more environmentally friendly "carbon neutral" form will emerge that is also "Budget Friendly"
Green Peace and War (Profiteers and Losers)

wife's family heard new explosions from the airfield north of them
I warned them along time ago to stay off the road that passes by there and take the long way
don't drive on bridges, etc
stockpile food
they refuse to leave...
cuz their men all got conscripted

Tolstoy and The Siege of Sevastopol
how many sequels of that do we really need?

to think, that if I were still living there, I'd be an officer in the Russian Army right now
wearing the GRU uniform for real this time, under moy GRU Badge
but it means playing the convincing role of the good cooperative prisoner, who knows "the truth" about the west and fled...
sometimes, on quiet days, I can close my eyes and almost smell Moya Rodina
and hear the rain falling on the leaves

so spossiba bog, that I'm a FREE MAN sittin in the Gulf of Mexico right now in shorts and t-shirt, watchin the sailboats drift offshore and trying to guage their speed
cuz anything more than that, like FIGHTING, for instance
doesn't seem like it's really worth the effort, but can ya get me a beer, before you go, that would BE GREAT!

get this, Russia just raised the age for "specialists" to join the Russian military up to age 70!!!
geezers with special technical or linguistic abilities can skip completely all the "PT" Physical Training
and...
can get up later and even take naps!!!!!
DAMN!!!!!
plus DRUGS!!!
plus MONEY!!! (Rubley is like "Monopoly Money", earning Rubley is part of the game, like getting a free buffet breakfast at 4Seasons)
plus FREE FOOD!! (no 4Seasons hussles, a Russian School Cafeteria run by babooshkie in white coats and hats who make ya verrinike)
and if you are SMART you will give these  babooshkie a wink and a smile once in awhile...
plus FREE HOUSING!!  which can be "supplemented" in various ways, totally makes sense for a poor woman to hook up with you for officer's spousal benefits
plus FREE TRANSPORTATION WITHIN RUSSIA!!
and on top of all of that...
INFINITE RUSSIAN POOTY TANG!!!!!

hmmmmmmmmmmm
sheeeeet dawg, it's a good thing that I have it even BETTER where I'm at
I already got me some russians doin my cookin and cleanin, spossiba, DA, KAHYESHNO! THAT TOO!!!
OH! SNAP!

Have A Nice Day Russia!
See Ya, wouldn't wanna Be Ya!
or your Army recruiter

polushka poley moy jhoppa!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 04, 2023, 02:05:52 AM
Russia's new attempt at winning the war is to under no circumstances allow any negative news about them getting smashed seeing the light of day.


So..denial/lying is the new thing which is gonna defeat the AFU.


Only problem is...it ain't working and is making Putler and his orcs the laughing stock of the World.


Last night the orcs MOD reported "All Ukrainian naval drones were destroyed.No damages.The attack was successfully repelled. "


The reality is that video emerges showing a large landing craft listing heavily ,one of the ships compartments flooded,after actually errrrr taking a hit.


There was also a drone attack on Feodosia,Crimea last night.


The adviser to the gauleiter of Crimea stated that all targets were shot down by anti-aircraft missiles.


The reality is that a couple of videos from local residents emerged showing a drone hitting the oil depot.


Oh dear  ;D


Anyway,the war is going so well for the orcs they're now having to mobilize retired officers up to the age of 70...as Krim reported.


Not surprising really bearing in mind the total of confirmed orc officers killed in Ukraine since 24th February 2022 has risen to 2,606 as at 2nd August 2023.


Based on publicly available data from Russia.Confirmations are made from funeral notices,obituaries and news sites.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 04, 2023, 06:55:41 AM
and here's a photo of the stricken large orc amphibious assault ship "Olenegorsky Gorniyak " having to be towed back to port by tugs after being hit at Novorossiysk,Russia.


Moscow being hit by drones,Crimea being hit by drones,orc Naval bases in Russia being hit by drones ....all going to plan then for Putler and his orcs  >:D


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2q3-c5WcAAAy1c?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 07, 2023, 06:30:55 AM
The latest AFU figures for orc losses in Ukraine have now reached the 250,000 mark.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2023, 09:32:24 AM
http://kyivindependent.com/commander-russia-continues-to-use-chemical-weapons-in-ukraine/



Zyklon B
was not meant for me or thee
t'was meant for a tiny flea

starry, starry novichok
only works in spring and summer,
and not in winter, what a bummer

Putin has already seen Oppenheimer with Russian sub-titles
and he liked it

smaller russian nukes have a very high probability of working
but not bigger ones
the tritium maintenance program for russia's nukes, was ripped off ages ago
but the plutonium cores will work fine

I read a lot of Russian technical papers from the 1950s where they were imploding smaller and smaller masses of plutonium
and got a sub-critical mass of around 800 grams to produce a very low yield weapon instead of the default 6.1 kg
we did the same and produced a 75 pound nuclear warhead called the "Davy Crocket"
this is all 60 yr old tech...

if you took this 60 yr old tech, and stuck it on the end of Isael's current anti-missile technology
you could laugh at everyone's ICBMs

How long ya'll think you're gonna keep that Genie locked up in the Bottle?
forever?
nope!

he gonna git out sooner than ya'll think
and putin will make a deal with the devil, in exchange for 3 wishes

april showers
brings may flowers

global warming
brings nuclear winter



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 07, 2023, 04:54:23 PM
Are you an orc who had your leg blown off in Ukraine ?


No problem, we can get you back in there fighting in no time, until you get a bullet in the head.


After all...who wants to live forever eh ?


Below is local advertising in Kursk.






(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F28Gl4_XEAEgNNi?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2023, 07:55:32 PM
they tried so hard, and got so far
but in the end, it really didn't matter...
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2023, 12:34:02 AM
Ukrainians claim some kind of advance in the south, Russians claim some sort of advance in the north. In reality it seems that neither side are making any great advance and both seem to be in a stalemate situation. Many soldiers lives lost for a few hundred metres of dirt that essentially amount to nothing and may be retaken.

So for Ukraine too little progress too late. It's now seems down to a situation where big progress to advance in either side is unlikely and only tiny territory gains back and forth seem likely and pointless. Much like the WWI Western Front situation, both sides dug in having a go at each other but no real significant gains only significant loss of life.

So increasingly it seems many lives sacrificed over meaningless insignificant tiny gains of dirt back and forth. One news summing up of present situation:

http://euromaidanpress.com/2023/08/07/ukraine-advances-in-south-russia-assaults-in-east-over-past-week/

In reality no real significant advances by Ukraine nor Russia.

Ukraine really needs F16 fighter jets from the West to stand much chance of succeeding in its Counter-offensive. Otherwise it looks like Ukraine's Counter-offensive is doomed to failure and potentially Ukraine with it. I doubt Ukraine can hold up long term against Russia as I doubt the West will carry on supplying it over many years and propping up it's economy.

I think the West holding out on sending F16 jets is p*ssing around now which they can ill afford to do if they want Ukraine to win. Before I can understand the hesitation but now everything has moved on and it's an increasingly high stakes game, you don't take the risk and you lose the game.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 08, 2023, 04:15:31 AM
I'd agree with all that.


There are some who believe this was the USA's plan from the start,and said so at the outset of the war...to create a stalemate in Ukraine which will drain the resources,influence and economy of Russia over many years.


I always wondered why during the rather long build-up of orc forces around Ukraine,NATO didn't send a peace-keeping force into Ukraine to guard the borders.


I don't believe Russia would have risked direct confrontation with NATO forces.


The constant delays from the USA in firstly training the Ukrainian pilots and support crews,and subsequently supplying the F-16's to Ukraine ,as if the USA wants to drag out the war and is rather enjoying watching the degrading of the Russian military and economy,seems to confirm the original suspicions of some.


I was reading that Russian oil exports to India have now fallen to pre-war levels,and countries that were pro-Russian are now turning against them,such as Brazil...so the, claimed by some, USA's end-game could well be working.


Russia is doing itself no favours by first of all starting the war,and now causing grain shortages in countries that were pro-Russian.


There are widespread reports of military recruitment centres throughout Russia being set on fire now,which could mean either people don't want to be called-up or hopefully the Russian population is finally starting to turn against Putler and his cronies.


One has to feel sympathy for the decent people in Ukraine ,and there are some,despite all the scumbag lowlife traitors,scammers and crooks there,who are suffering and dying as it seems their country is being used as a pawn in a larger game.


Of course this can all backfire horribly for the USA and the west if Putler starts a nuclear war in his growing frustration.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2023, 04:22:01 AM
I'd agree with all that.


There are some who believe this was the USA's plan from the start,and said so at the outset of the war...to create a stalemate in Ukraine which will drain the resources,influence and economy of Russia over many years.


I always wondered why during the rather long build-up of orc forces around Ukraine,NATO didn't send a peace-keeping force into Ukraine to guard the borders.


I don't believe Russia would have risked direct confrontation with NATO forces.


The constant delays from the USA in firstly training the Ukrainian pilots and support crews,and subsequently supplying the F-16's to Ukraine ,as if the USA wants to drag out the war and is rather enjoying watching the degrading of the Russian military and economy,seems to confirm the original suspicions of some.


I was reading that Russian oil exports to India have now fallen to pre-war levels,and countries that were pro-Russian are now turning against them,such as Brazil...so the, claimed by some, USA's end-game could well be working.


Russia is doing itself no favours by first of all starting the war,and now causing grain shortages in countries that were pro-Russian.


There are widespread reports of military recruitment centres throughout Russia being set on fire now,which could mean either people don't want to be called-up or hopefully the Russian population is finally starting to turn against Putler and his cronies.


One has to feel sympathy for the decent people in Ukraine ,and there are some,despite all the scumbag lowlife traitors,scammers and crooks there,who are suffering and dying as it seems their country is being used as a pawn in a larger game.


Of course this can all backfire horribly for the USA and the west if Putler starts a nuclear war in his growing frustration.

I agree I think the western government's warnings of a Russian attack before the war though true were kind of stoking the hostilities of the two nations. Kind of felt like they were egging it on until it came to grief and the two sides were locked in a conflict that neither side could get out off due to increasing bitterness on either side that such conflict generates in addition to the territory disagreement neither wishes to give way on. The supply of anti tank NLAWS & Javelins before and during the early stages of the war helping to thwart Russia's plan for a quick invasion in addition to its own problems with its tanks clapping out.

It might seem a risky strategy since Russia could have taken Ukraine for all the west knows but like you say I think the west's key aim was to isolate Russia and take over it's markets. Europe was heavily dependent on Russia's oil & gas particularly Germany and now that has largely been cut western industries are developing to fill the gap.

Russia's economy is still in economic decline and is likely to year in year at least as long as this conflict continues:

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-economy-ruble-putin-ukraine-war-invasion-dollar-western-sanctions-2023-8

So Russia is growing a big budget deficit of billions each year due to extra spending on defense. How long the Russian economy can go before it all collapses in who knows. Odds are even after the end of the war whenever that will be Russia will have been kicked out of its key foreign markets and probably for the most part won't get back in. So the outlook for most Russians is bleak, back to the old collapsed economic years like after the end of the USSR.

Ukraine too I think will be in a situation if economic collapse it's using it's all to defend the invasion, it's budget and is being propped up by western governments. If it survives it will likely be in the hands of western governments and western companies I think if there is anything worthwhile there otherwise probably just a forward NATO staging post.
Title: OMG!!!!
Post by: krimster2 on August 09, 2023, 06:34:12 AM
http://youtu.be/4wGtSdZbZ5M

OMG!!!!   
the part about ukraine begins at about the 23:00 min mark
A republican who's not a Pootin or Trump lover

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2023, 11:59:05 AM
Looks like as thought earlier as Ukraine gains small amounts of dirt territory in the south, Russia gains small amounts of dirt territory in the north:

Via Euronews: Ukraine war: Russia 'improves position', West lining Putin's coffers, German army staff 'spying'
http://www.euronews.com/2023/08/10/ukraine-war-west-lining-putins-coffers-german-army-staff-spying-for-russia-crimea-drone-at

By the end of Summer unless something big happens that is looking unlikely at the moment it will roughly be the same amount of ground gained an lost, so a stalemate. If Russia makes an significant enough ground in the north more Ukrainian forces are going to need to be diverted there possibly forcing an early end to Ukraine's southern Counter-offensive.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2023, 09:19:44 AM
Looks like all the early excitement phase of the war is now over and the invasion of Ukraine is turning from war, war to bore, bore. Seems Ukraine & Russia are now locked in a pretty much stalemate situation that could go on for many years in theory. This professor guy seems to sum up the situation fairly well I think:

http://unherd.com/2023/08/why-ukraines-offensive-has-stalled/

Looks like the Russian economy will keep together enough to keep going for sone years although debt build up and harsh economic climate won't be kind on the Russian people. Ukraine meanwhile is largely backed by the west and my guess is they will have to hope on continuing support to defend itself. In that I think the EU is entirely committed with Ukraine & Russia being in its borders. The UK will likely continue its support too as while not right on its doorstep is as near as. That and sone possibly support from the rest of the world will probably keep Ukraine in the game especially if Russia starts to struggle to keep up with supplying it's military due to cost. Overall it looks like the war in Ukraine could be going on for some time.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2023, 01:58:39 PM
di rusn
לרוסים יש סוד
don't be worried tovarisch, you're gonna hear about it...

bribing the head of the FBI's Russian cyber intelligence dept
and using imprisoned hackers to hack the DNC's emails
to make the 2016 presidential more to Russia's liking
was PURE freaking genuis

but you ain't seen nothin holmes
what if....
what if...
the war was "for show" and crisis management was the plan all along...

but...
the worst is yet to come...
and not just for the slavic brothers cain and abel
the show is over-running it's budget, so they're gonna do the grand finale, earlier than the script called for

Putin is gonna let out ALL the Devils to do his bidding
that he locked up in cages

but the devils don't obey anyone, least of all him
bar-dak baby
putin don't care
cuz he knows it's over
but...
he doesn't want that condition to only apply to himself

it's gonna hurt
it's gonna leave a permanent scar on the planet
another "bad spot"
like all the rest I've been to

the places where the dead are all buried
as pure as the silence of Katryn

at AUSCHWITZ-BIRKENAU
you can rub your finger briskly over a piece of old wood in a barracks (one of hundreds)
and you can smell 1944....
I will never forget THAT smell

that piece of wood combined with the right hallucinogens
is the perfect combination to experience history in first-person
without having to testify at Nuremberg

Kabbalah magik tricks
performed by a Kabbalah magician


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2023, 07:28:14 AM
One of the more mundane ways this war might possibly in 2024 or thereafter if the stalemate continues is a peace treaty likely agreeing that:

1). Russia holds in and annexes the territory it is currently occupying, the Crimea, the areas of the Donbass and Luhansk including Mariupol & Melitopol.

2). It is accepted that Ukraine will join NATO and possibly/probably later the EU.

Ukraine of course want the whole of Ukraine back but they are now reliant on western weapons supply so they no longer call the shots the west does. The west saying to Ukraine that they can't supply weapons for much longer so Ukraine will have to come to terms will push Ukraine to such an agreement rather than losing the whole of their country. Odds are with a stalemate situation continuing next year the west will get fed up of supplying Ukraine with weapons from their existing armies and propping the Ukraine government up financially. No matter who is in power in the west continuing an expensive war campaign that's bogged down in stalemate probably will get to be seen more as an Election liability which most politicians will want to avoid.

The Russians meanwhile will see that the west isn't prepared to let the whole if Ukraine fall but is prepared to come to an agreement. Russia will get the territory it now occupied (roughly) but knows that it doesn't have the power to break the stalemate unless they wish to go to extremes, so far they have shown that they don't wish to go that far. So Russia doesn't walk away empty handed, it gains territory which it claims is most Russian, it gains more Black Sea ports and crucially it gets the land bridge it so wanted to Crimea.

Neither side will like that they didn't get all that they had their heart set upon but both sides will likely see it as the only logical and necessary solution.

To get there both sides will have to become tired of the war, their country's and economy busted up enough by it and their military knackered out both by the fighting and by their equipment supply.

Other ends to the war are of course possible and Russia might yet still use more extreme measures, but I see this ending as the most likely and plausible whether it happens next year or in the years after. Now if someone can direct me to a bookies where I might make good money on such a prediction ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine will be nuclear
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2023, 04:24:33 PM
Shoigu visited Russia's nuclear test facility recently....
he's validating that there won't be any surprises

IMHO, this is the solution of last resort
it will not be applied before Putin's election in March 7, 2024
and it also depends on the probability of Trump being elected to replace Biden, which normally would be a remote possibility in nov 2024
but the Russians will make sure, the 2024 election cycle is not normal

the cost of the Ukrainian war will be one of the main republican topics in 2024
russians are furiously manipulating social media to reduce American support for the war, and it's working

by the end of the month, Trump will have accumulated over 100 criminal charges
plus the civil penalty for rape and twice impeached
if this doesn't scream "Presidential Material" I don't know what does

man republicans are amazingly astute with their political choices, LOL
Ron Desantis LOL!!!

american oligarchs need to find better political "front-men" other than Trump and Desantis
to convince the masses that the billionaires all deeply care about their concerns
and aren't just ripping them off

the worst thing that can possibly happen to oligarchs is for the working class to "wake up" and be woke
hence the universal war of authoritarians vrs woke philosophy

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2023, 04:36:22 PM
The US federal government could have its own social media strategy.  But, this war won't be what determines who is the next president.  Economic factors and public safety issues will be bigger issues.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine will be nuclear
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2023, 04:40:06 PM
Shoigu visited Russia's nuclear test facility recently....
he's validating that there won't be any surprises

IMHO, this is the solution of last resort
it will not be applied before Putin's election in March 7, 2024
and it also depends on the probability of Trump being elected to replace Biden, which normally would be a remote possibility in nov 2024
but the Russians will make sure, the 2024 election cycle is not normal

the cost of the Ukrainian war will be one of the main republican topics in 2024
russians are furiously manipulating social media to reduce American support for the war, and it's working


by the end of the month, Trump will have accumulated over 100 criminal charges
plus the civil penalty for rape and twice impeached
if this doesn't scream "Presidential Material" I don't know what does

man republicans are amazingly astute with their political choices, LOL
Ron Desantis LOL!!!

That I can believe. However Trump well I don't get the time to follow American politics closely but it seems that Trump is facing a tidal wave of criminal charges. From what I saw the other day on the news it's sounds like they ain't all trumped up charges either ;) It sounded like the prosecutors have real evidence and are serious. I didn't get the impression that they were just trying to sling anything at him on an axe to grind basis. I'm really starting to doubt if Trump will make it to the Presidential Election at this rate, I personally think he will be taken down with it all. It just sounds like to me that the prosecutors have really done their job and are certain he has committed these crimes. I don't think you have anything to worry about Trump getting off them or getting into the White House again.

That's not to say another Republican might not get in. I think even if not Trump another Republican could get into the White House. Like you say if the American people move against supporting the war in Ukraine then unless Biden moves with them he will be very vulnerable to being ousted I reckon.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2023, 05:12:22 PM
Trump is a political absurdity
which actually suits the period of history we find ourselves in
what ISN'T absurd in this timeline?

Trump's fundraising off this, and that's his primary purpose. GRIFTING!!!
Once it's clear he's not gonna win, he'll fly to Brazil for "medical treatment", and hopefully this'll be the last we ever hear of him, after he goes into exile
Democrats may substitute the Gov of Calif for Biden depending on how well he does in the upcoming Desantis debate and how well Biden is publicly faring with Hunter and his old age...





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2023, 06:36:04 AM
infrastructure is collapsing EVERYWHERE in Russia
that's what happens when someone in power steals all the money, and doesn't give a damn what happens...

as a result of this, a damn collapsed in Primorsky Krai Russia, flooding everbody below
but when I was in Russia a few yrs ago, I saw much, much worse negligence in the far east
all those chickens are coming home to roost
soon there will be massive flocks of them


see how happy everyone in Russia is?
and not a damn thing these people can do about it

http://twitter.com/i/status/1691123107472330752
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2023, 10:16:35 AM
if Putina loses the war (he chickens out over mini/mikro nukes) then eventually, he will be replaced by someone even further to the right, who will seize power by destroying the oligarchy and re-creates the socialist republic of Russia

nuclear war ain't gonna be like ya'll see on TV...
Trump revealed some details to Woodward, about America's micro-nukes
Trump is WRONG when he claims that this technology is exclusively American
how do I know?
cuz I bought the Soviet technical informatze for making them (don't worry, I don't have the materials) and my plan for sending my youngest daughter to Russian nuke school, is off the table, she just returned from Israel after graduating this year from Technion

soviets did huge number of tests of imploding sub-critical masses of uranium/plutonium starting in the 50s
by the 70s they figured out how to make the secret sauce that would allow them to implode < 10 grams of plutonium + deuterium/tritium into a 10 ton TNT equivalent explosion, that would fit in your hand that uses less than a half-kilo, of custom high density high explosive for compression

very small amounts of radiation
the USA had a mini-nuke called the W54 back in the early 60s, that weighed 70 pounds, cuz of the shielding, and the fact that it used 60 yr old tech, same design today would weigh 50% less
the Russian version (no shielding) would weigh half that
and that's a 60 yr old mini-nuke

a mikro-nuke is light years ahead of this, cuz it uses a different configuration than the football shaped large sub-critical mass configuration used in the W54
the mikro-nuke has the plutonium in a hollow sphere and the "layers" are configured differently than the W54
Soviets had a 100 pages of differential equations describing the compression of mikro-nukes vrs standard nukes, all done without computers from the early 50s
impressive, Moscow State University is


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2023, 12:52:59 PM
if Putina loses the war (he chickens out over mini/mikro nukes) then eventually, he will be replaced by someone even further to the right, who will seize power by destroying the oligarchy and re-creates the socialist republic of Russia

nuclear war ain't gonna be like ya'll see on TV...
Trump revealed some details to Woodward, about America's micro-nukes
Trump is WRONG when he claims that this technology is exclusively American
how do I know?
cuz I bought the Soviet technical informatze for making them (don't worry, I don't have the materials) and my plan for sending my youngest daughter to Russian nuke school, is off the table, she just returned from Israel after graduating this year from Technion

soviets did huge number of tests of imploding sub-critical masses of uranium/plutonium starting in the 50s
by the 70s they figured out how to make the secret sauce that would allow them to implode < 10 grams of plutonium + deuterium/tritium into a 10 ton TNT equivalent explosion, that would fit in your hand that uses less than a half-kilo, of custom high density high explosive for compression

very small amounts of radiation
the USA had a mini-nuke called the W54 back in the early 60s, that weighed 70 pounds, cuz of the shielding, and the fact that it used 60 yr old tech, same design today would weigh 50% less
the Russian version (no shielding) would weigh half that
and that's a 60 yr old mini-nuke

a mikro-nuke is light years ahead of this, cuz it uses a different configuration than the football shaped large sub-critical mass configuration used in the W54
the mikro-nuke has the plutonium in a hollow sphere and the "layers" are configured differently than the W54
Soviets had a 100 pages of differential equations describing the compression of mikro-nukes vrs standard nukes, all done without computers from the early 50s
impressive, Moscow State University is

Hence my Gennady Zyuganov suggestion, could be someone else though but possibly similar take.

Here is another guy who followed my alternative ending for the Ukraine war and wasn't thanked for it:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/16/nato-official-suggests-ukraine-could-give-up-territory-in-exchange-for-membership

So Krim, where do you think Russia will be aiming their mini nukes? My guess is Ukraine is high up on their hit list.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2023, 04:31:26 PM
targets?
Zelensky when he's visiting the front
large masses of ukrainian troops
and then every single power plant in Ukraine
this will be next year at the earliest

Nato will struggle over the correct response
and will likely under-respond due to fear of escalation
and Putin will accept the losses
and then just use even more mikro-nukes

after March 7, 2024
Russia is gonna kick it up a notch

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 18, 2023, 07:57:11 AM
targets?
Zelensky when he's visiting the front
large masses of ukrainian troops
and then every single power plant in Ukraine
this will be next year at the earliest

Nato will struggle over the correct response
and will likely under-respond due to fear of escalation
and Putin will accept the losses
and then just use even more mikro-nukes

after March 7, 2024
Russia is gonna kick it up a notch

Yeah I'm surprised that Putler didn't hit Ukrainian troops first with some type of mini nuke or similar devastating weapons. That would break Ukraine's troop lines so allowing Russian forces to punch through and get around the back of remaining troops and destroy Ukrainian troop morale. He could again had the conflict over quickly. Sure the international community would condemn him but they are doing that already but it would also shock fear into them.

The easiest victory Russia messed up at the beginning by not invading in the west of Ukraine to cut off its land border. The more mess ups Russia makes the greater force it needs to win.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 18, 2023, 01:14:53 PM
Putina is "nationalistic" but he's not a nationalist
he doesn't actually care AT ALL about the welfare of Russians

he feeds their prejudices, in order to impose his authority and control
under the disguise of "patriotism"
the russian people are nothing more than serfs to him

this is very similar to how the republican party panders to the prejudices of southern white christians , because no economic adjustments are necessary from the upper classes in a culture war, so they create a culture war to avoid a class war

economic and social conditions in Russia are in a continuous decline, the GDP has decreased about 20% since 2014, after the invasion of Crimea by "little green men", who were invited in to Crimea thanks to "fake electors" voting in the Crimean Parliment...
Fake Electors, from Putin and then Trump, hmmmm coincidence of course

the intersection of russian gangsta capitalists and american financial interests is a much bigger threat to American society than men in drag, I know some of ya'll will find that hard to believe

I know, some of ya'll are thinkin, the Russians are white, how could other white people be more a threat compared to men wearing dresses? or students learning the truth about slavery and racism?

because if the rich lose control over the culture, they understand the culture will come after their privilige sooner or later
and the rich in the USA, like the rich everywhere else, all look down on the poor, that THEY create

In Russia, this means that if Putina fails and Russia has a "hard landing" then the whole oligarchy, i.e. "Putin's People" will all go down with him
this is why oligarchs have no choice but to fight to the last russian (while their kids are abroad)
Putina, at some point next year, will realize the risk of using mini/micro nukes, will be less than the risk of NOT using them

NATO will NOT respond with nukes, if he does this
this whole thing has been planned out by Russian focus groups and war games
the Russian military exercises held before the Ukrainian invasion
was an exact copy of the invasion

there will be signs







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 19, 2023, 01:56:39 AM
Putina is "nationalistic" but he's not a nationalist
he doesn't actually care AT ALL about the welfare of Russians

he feeds their prejudices, in order to impose his authority and control
under the disguise of "patriotism"
the russian people are nothing more than serfs to him

this is very similar to how the republican party panders to the prejudices of southern white christians , because no economic adjustments are necessary from the upper classes in a culture war, so they create a culture war to avoid a class war

economic and social conditions in Russia are in a continuous decline, the GDP has decreased about 20% since 2014, after the invasion of Crimea by "little green men", who were invited in to Crimea thanks to "fake electors" voting in the Crimean Parliment...
Fake Electors, from Putin and then Trump, hmmmm coincidence of course

the intersection of russian gangsta capitalists and american financial interests is a much bigger threat to American society than men in drag, I know some of ya'll will find that hard to believe

I know, some of ya'll are thinkin, the Russians are white, how could other white people be more a threat compared to men wearing dresses? or students learning the truth about slavery and racism?

because if the rich lose control over the culture, they understand the culture will come after their privilige sooner or later
and the rich in the USA, like the rich everywhere else, all look down on the poor, that THEY create

In Russia, this means that if Putina fails and Russia has a "hard landing" then the whole oligarchy, i.e. "Putin's People" will all go down with him
this is why oligarchs have no choice but to fight to the last russian (while their kids are abroad)
Putina, at some point next year, will realize the risk of using mini/micro nukes, will be less than the risk of NOT using them

NATO will NOT respond with nukes, if he does this
this whole thing has been planned out by Russian focus groups and war games
the Russian military exercises held before the Ukrainian invasion
was an exact copy of the invasion

there will be signs


I strongly suspect you and Trench will be in for a huge shock if Russia uses any kind of nukes...regarding NATO's response.


Putler has been made fully aware of what the response will be,which is why he hasn't used them yet....despite all the Russian threats of using them.


At least Trench wouldn't have to worry about getting hold of a woman anymore.


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 19, 2023, 03:56:41 AM

I strongly suspect you and Trench will be in for a huge shock if Russia uses any kind of nukes...regarding NATO's response
.


Putler has been made fully aware of what the response will be,which is why he hasn't used them yet....despite all the Russian threats of using them.


At least Trench wouldn't have to worry about getting hold of a woman anymore.

That's what I love about you CB ever the over optimistic NATO response guy lol :ROFL:

Sure NATO in theory have a response, fire back in a war in which they are apparently not involved. Hello to nuclear mutually assured destruction or sit there and issue condemnations and avoid mutually assured destruction.

My guess is that they will not go MAD and chose the second option. Putler as Krim has rightly pointed out by that stage will be in a no lose only choice position so will use the mini nukes and hope for the best. NATO by sitting on the sidelines before the invasion have already signalled their response well in advance - they are not involved and will not get involved. NATO are just interested in securing it's members security of which Ukraine never got to be signed up to. Sure NATO is tacitly supportive of Ukraine but Ukraine is not a member so they aren't willing to treat them as if they are.

I don't think it's 100 percent the outcome yet that Russia will use mini nukes. Other paths are conceivably open but I think the mini nuke option is a big likelihood. Ukraine & Russia could come to peace terms along present territory lines. Both are opposed to this at the moment as Ukraine wants all its territory back and for Russia is it enough as once Ukraine is signed up to NATO with NATO forces Russia cannot re-invade Ukraine. Russia could instead invade Georgia, the Stans, etc but little Putler had his heart set on capturing Odessa and the whole of Ukraine. My guess is Russia might possibly settle for what they have as they wanted a land bridge to Crimea, and the Donbass to break away from Ukraine. I think Ukraine will only sign up to such a deal if the west forces their hand by threatening to stop supplying Ukraine.

Other ways it could end is a Ukraine breakthrough in their Counter-offensive but that is looking more & more unlikely. They only have about a couple of months left before winter sets in which is likely to put pay to any further counterattack untill Spring. I think they would still be best off trying to counterattack in the winter if they can at all but their odds aren't likely good. Come next Spring and Russia will have likely reinforced their positions still further and bulked up their troops. Result a complete stalemate, Russia may get Belarus in to try and put pressure on Ukraine from the north but if Belarus can't get past Ukraine's defences their then we're back to the mini nuke option.

Other ways it could end is Russia falling apart economically and hence politically also. That could be a possibility with the economy being so bad in Russia and getting worse all the time. When the country starts falling apart people start constructing their own groups and power bases and breakaway from the existing system. We'll just have to see in that one but unless it happens suddenly it could push Putler closer to the mini nuke option.

I don't think the mini nuke option will take many females as it will be mostly Ukrainian soldiers, critical Infrastructure it will be aimed at like Krim states. Even with Ukrainian soldiers it won't be used to kill them all more tactically to break their lines and large group formations to crack the Ukrainian army  so Russian forces can push through sending Ukrainian forces left into disarray, panic and headlong retreat. Of course after this the big downside is that Ukraine will be part of Russia so entry visa cost for us if westerners are still allowed to visit since use of mini nuke many western countries may block any tourism to Russia possibly. That's not a great outcome for us so I'm hoping that an alternative outcome though perhaps less likely where at least a large chunk of Ukraine survives will come about.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 19, 2023, 06:33:07 AM
Trench,


          You can sit there and try and kid yourself that there will be no response from NATO if Russia uses a nuke...if it makes you feel better.


The reality is that NATO cannot possibly allow Russia to use a nuke without responding.


If they do,then it shows Russia that they can do as they please to whoever they want...so NATO cannot allow that to happen.


The civilized world cannot allow a rogue nation to dictate to the rest of the world how things will be by using nukes.


What would stop Russia or China invading Japan or China taking Taiwan...if NATO uses your reaction and says we won't do anything if Japan or Taiwan get nuked because they're not in NATO ?


Maybe Russia would fancy Australia and New Zealand too.


How about Russia threatening to nuke the whole of south and central America if they don't do whatever Russia desires...there goes Krims Puerto Rico fantasy,as the orcs take it over....whilst the USA says "they're not NATO countries so we won't do anything " Some nice Russian nuclear missile bases in Cuba right on the USA's doorstep.


Heck,Russia can just take over Mexico whilst the USA sit's on it's hands saying "not NATO so we mustn't get involved".


Putler would love a nuclear missile base ..his nukes pointed at the UK...in Ireland too.We won't prevent it because Ireland isn't in NATO.


Come on down Vlad..it's yours for the taking boyo.


Krim was adamant Russia would nuke Ukraine last autumn...so why didn't they ? It's been almost a year since then after all.


Russia keeps threatening NATO with escalation if red lines are crossed..so NATO gives them the finger and crosses those red lines....and nothing happens except for the normal firing of Russian missiles into Ukrainian civilians.


Russia is like you and Krim...full of bluster ..and that's because it has been made clear to Putler and his Kremlin regime exactly what is going to happen if Russia uses a nuke.


By the way i wasn't referring to Ukrainian women, or any women, when i said you won't have to worry about getting hold of a woman anymore if Russia uses a nuke.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 19, 2023, 07:31:40 AM
OMG!  you mean no more Paul McCartney concerts in Moscow??!!
l'horreur!!

MAD is about symmetry
Russians are all about asymmetry

Ukraine cannot yet respond to such an attack
NATO will not reply in kind
attack was not on their territory, there won't be ANY support for this kind of escalation, or ANY escalation

Nato's threat to Russia over nukes is NOT real
at best, NATO will launch a limited attack on Russian airfields in Ukraine
and now that'll give Putin the excuse he needs to kick it up a notch
and put halters on every single Russian and have them pull barges on the Volga while humming a snappy little tune

and here, he'll gather the Oswalds amd Timothy McVeigh's
and turn his enemies against themselves
this plan is ALREADY underway, the Russians who are part of this plan
are ALREADY here on the east coast

Putina can absorb the small NATO response
and can easily reply to it
he holds the entire population of Ukraine as hostages
after the NATO attack, he'll punish Ukrainian civilians by nuking a small town
and tell NATO, every attack will cost a Ukrainian town
how many attacks after that?

this is what asymmetry means
Russians WILL kill civilains with nukes
but the west won't in this context
MAD does not apply here
in fact MAD prevents the west from using nukes
and the Russians have figured this all out


you Anglais need to understand
my visions are up for interpretation
sometimes the interpretation is mistranslated

for example, the visions I had of Moscva burning, I thought was related to Covid
turns out it wasn't...

GRU is switching from espionage to sabotage
just like the Chinese

the public isn't aware of the war that's ALREADY happening, on our own soil
Chinese focusing on west coast, russians on the east
they're NOT just stealing anymore
the change in mission has already happened...
here come the sharks....

after next year, Russian oligarchs won't be fighting over the spoils of Ukraine
they'll be fighting for their own future survival
when they are trapped like this
then you'll see what they are capable of

Puerto Rico?
no Costa Rica!
Puerto Rico is US territory with US laws
Costa Rica, has a "no extradition to the USA" policy
and I like it more than Brazil
it's a nice place, Russians gotta go through USA to get Los Latinos Americanos
Russia is already well connected to the cartels in central America, buying/selling weapons/narkotika
eventually, they'll "influence" them
into becoming part of the team....

how do I know?
Buenos días, muchachos!!!
hahaha

all the armies of the earth, are not as powerful as an idea whose time has come
and the plan to destigmatize the use of WMDs is gonna happen sooner than later
supporters of this are everywhere

in an artillery war, after Russia loses all it's artillery
WMDs are all it has left
the oligarchs ain't gonna hand over the keys
they'd rather drive the lada over the cliff

ergo, Ukraine is gonna get sued by the law firm of Nuke and Novichok
and the rest of ya'll are gonna STFU

WMDs ain't armageddon, especially leetle ones
they're the idea whose time has come
how long didja all think you could keep the jins in their prisons...
before somebody with absolutely nothin left to lose releases them?

once ya'll get over the shock, then you're gonna start thinking about how to gain advantage in the new world order
bottom line...
in the future, all militaries are scaled back, and small WMDs are routinely used in warfare
things tend to evolve towards efficiency
contrast the cost of one mini nuke and a robot vrs a divsion of conscripted soldiers





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 19, 2023, 12:48:09 PM
It won't necessarily be NATO, but the USA at a minimum, will respond to a nuclear attack.  The message is not just for Russia.  What message is sent to Iran and North Korea if a nuclear attack is allowed to occur with no response.


I don't share krimster's view of Russia as some powerful force.  It has used Western greed to its advantage, but I tend to believe most people, even politicians, can't be bought off if it's not in their ultimate interest.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 19, 2023, 01:57:45 PM
why do you think Russia has been transferring all it's nuclear technology to Iran and China in the first place?
when Russia makes their move, ya think Iran and China won't join in and make their moves, as well?
three acting jointly increases their strength compared to just one

USA no longer has the means for more than a short fight with just one enemy. they don't have the personnel or material to fight three simultaneously, and can't fight one, for more than a few weeks

the USA does not want to use tactical nukes, tried getting rid of them
Russians did the opposite they dominate this field the way the west dominates the economic field

they'll fight using the tools that give them the greatest advantage, nothing else they have gives them this kinda leverage
after next year, this is the ONLY option the oligarchs have to survive the crisis they created

there ain't gonna be no happy ending to this story
only the first chapter of Ukraine's suffering has been written
new chapters and volumes are coming from the same author

this is a brutal jungle fight, that will be fought to the "finish" between a predator and its prey
nature favors the predator
there's only gonna be one survivor here
when it's all over

i'm just a "friendly naturalist" tellin ya'll it like it is
nobody likes to see the cute little animals devoured by fierce beasts
but it happens

denial, ain't a river in egypt
ya'll need to face what's coming...
and not look away
and pretend that it's not

the thing that is NOT gonna happen
is for the oligarchs to give up
they're homocidal maniacs and not suicidal
they love themselves too much for that

killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to maintain their privilige
is a virtue and not a sin to them
ain't no angels gonna stand in the way of the devils
gott is nicht mit uns




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 20, 2023, 01:13:11 AM
Krim.


       You're wrong...just as you was last summer about an impending nuclear attack on Ukraine in the fall....and now you're starting that nonsense again.


There will be no nuclear attack by Russia on Ukraine....unless Putler believes Russia is going to be invaded by Ukraine,and that won't happen .


The reason for that is because Putler and his regime is well aware of the consequences to Russia if they use a nuke.


The west will not allow a despotic regime to control the world by using nukes..end of.


The way you bluster anybody would think the USA,UK and France didn't have nukes too. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 20, 2023, 01:53:11 AM
why do you think Russia has been transferring all it's nuclear technology to Iran and China in the first place?
when Russia makes their move, ya think Iran and China won't join in and make their moves, as well?
three acting jointly increases their strength compared to just one

USA no longer has the means for more than a short fight with just one enemy. they don't have the personnel or material to fight three simultaneously, and can't fight one, for more than a few weeks

the USA does not want to use tactical nukes, tried getting rid of them
Russians did the opposite they dominate this field the way the west dominates the economic field

they'll fight using the tools that give them the greatest advantage, nothing else they have gives them this kinda leverage
after next year, this is the ONLY option the oligarchs have to survive the crisis they created

there ain't gonna be no happy ending to this story
only the first chapter of Ukraine's suffering has been written
new chapters and volumes are coming from the same author

this is a brutal jungle fight, that will be fought to the "finish" between a predator and its prey
nature favors the predator
there's only gonna be one survivor here
when it's all over

i'm just a "friendly naturalist" tellin ya'll it like it is
nobody likes to see the cute little animals devoured by fierce beasts
but it happens

denial, ain't a river in egypt
ya'll need to face what's coming...
and not look away
and pretend that it's not

the thing that is NOT gonna happen
is for the oligarchs to give up
they're homocidal maniacs and not suicidal
they love themselves too much for that

killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to maintain their privilige
is a virtue and not a sin to them
ain't no angels gonna stand in the way of the devils
gott is nicht mit uns

That's a great summery of the situation Krim :)

I don't think some realise the scope of Russia's ability for aggression. Some have gotten over confident of Ukraine's ability due to the early stage cock up by Russia and armed forces losses on Russia. They don't see though that those armed forces losses aren't war winning in themselves and that Russia is coming back strong with a much better strategic take this year and potentially for the years thereafter.

Here is an article on Ukraine's Counter-offensive so far which concurs with what I have been saying that they are not going to make it this year:

http://kyivindependent.com/washington-post-us-intelligence-thinks-ukraine-will-fail-to-reach-counteroffensives-key-goal/

Basically it's Ukraine that has messed up this year in being too cautious on troop losses and being too obvious on where they were going to counterattack. Not only that but they got overconfident that western tanks were going to be a war winner for them when they had already demonstrated to the Russians that tanks were of limited use in this conflict.

So some big mistakes by Ukraine this year which they can ill afford. Since like you say Russia is likely to hit back in subsequent years with mini nukes so Ukrainians can't afford for the conflict to still be ongoing heading into that territory.

So despite western military advice to attack with large forces across a large front Ukraine has muffed it up good and proper by being too cautious and attacking in small groups to minimise losses. This being war of course is a situation where sacrifices at times are needed and Ukraine balked on that one. So again using last year's strategy of minimising troop losses but not realising they needed to switch and ignoring their allies expertise on this.

I think Ukraine has become accustomed to putting the tab at the west's expense and so is playing it too cautious as we're footing the bill on this one. I definitely think western powers need to get in their and give the Ukrainian government a right kick up the arse on this one to get them to toe the line.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 20, 2023, 06:14:01 AM
the USA doesn't care about Ukraine's welfare
they only care about keeping Ukraine away from being re-absorbed by Russia, cuz it increases Russia's strength, making them that much harder to stop "next time"
all of America's "aid" is designed to keep Ukraine "independent of russia" and nothing more
there are no altruists in power here
this is real politik baby

so if I told ya in 1939, that Germany was gonna declare war on the USA real soon now
and 1940 rolled 'round and still no war with USA
would ya call that prediction "a fail"
I reckon ya would...

it's roughly 6 months until Putinas "election"
I don't quite understand the dynamics cuz it's so complicated with so many facets
n-body gravitational mechanics are WAY more complicated than just a 2-body one

but I do know that after the "election", Putina will seek "retribution"
and he'll have just a single means of achieving it
Russia will no longer have the conventional military equipment left
to make any further progress in Ukraine
then Putina will start "making the pitch" to the Russian people
that them no good nato lovin faschistas are comin to kidnap THEIR KIDS
AHHHH
and in the USA unleash a torrent of disinformatze
designed to reduce USA support

all big military decisions have a "political context"
nobody, and I mean nobody does a better job at political information manipulation than Russians

USA political decision makers will have to contend with declining public support for the ukrainian war, at a time when they're considering escalation
these politicians really only care about one thing
themselves
and if this decision isn't good for their political future
then they won't make it
and Putin will work very hard to convince them it's not gonna be in their best interest
ask Trump


"The reason for that is because Putler and his regime is well aware of the consequences to Russia if they use a nuke."

this is why China is pushing Putin into calling the West's bluff, and I know for a fact they're bluffing
there will be a token response, that will cease after Putin destroys a large Ukrainian town in retribution for the attack
and that's it...

remember Russia gave Syrians a Novichok factory, and when the syrians used it in a WMD, what was the US's response...
a stern letter

storms are comin
seek shelter


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 20, 2023, 08:23:44 AM
Photo of a burning TU-22M3 Russian bomber after a drone strike on a military airfield in Siltsy,Novgorod region,Russia..


Training for Ukrainian fighter pilots and engineers on F-16's has now started.


Denmark and The Netherlands will be supplying 42 F-16's in the initial tranche once the training is completed...that will be in approx 6 months time.


Ukrainian pilots are also training on the Swedish Gripen JAS39 fighter jets.


Russia may well be losing all it's air cover in the not too distant future...ideal for nukes to strike if needed.

Maybe even pre-emptive strikes.

BOOM !  >:D


Moscow/Russia can't even protect itself from Drone strikes now.


That would make Krim and Trench spit out their coffee. ;D


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3-ftFeWAAAXQit?format=webp&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 20, 2023, 09:10:37 AM
WTF, you talkin about homey?

how well did London fare, in 1940?
did that determine the outcome of the war?
it didn't in asia
2 nuclear weapons did that...

you english speaking peoples, all wish to stick your heads in the sand
and kick dirt at those who don't

I get it, my family and their community suffered terribly in both world wars
both in Britain and USA
and so prefer to live in denial
that it can't "happen again, it just can't"
and the people who ARE gonna make it happen
are relying on you to do JUST THAT!


dat's OK
cuz while yur head is in the sand
your ass is in the air
and sure enuff, somebody gonna come along and kick it

don't say I didn't warn ya
I haz small tribal loyalty to Anglo Saxons
I tries to help 'em
but they always frustrate me

Russians, on the other hand, listen to me intensely
so I like Russians more than ya'll

but because I'm a nationalist
I care more about the people than the system and it's failed leadership
if this were 1905, there's be this MASSIVE underground movement in Russia for me to join
but there ain't one today

and that subject is itself worthy of reflection
why Russia hasn't had October 1917 already...
and under what conditions would it
and how close will they be to this threshold, say 2 yr from now
and without the "underground" who will the revolutionaries be?

this is why Maidan "triggered" Putin
Russia/Ukraine copy each other
cuz the kultura is pretty much the same
so ideas migrate easily 'cross the border

after Maidan, Putin thought
either I take Ukraine, or Maidan will take Russia
was he wrong?
IMHO, no he wasn't

he's postponed maidan
but hasn't canceled it yet

how many nukes will it take, how much prepping the public and foreign politicians?
to remove the maidan threat, once and for all

the answer my friend, is blowing in the wind
the answer is blowing in the wind

Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on August 20, 2023, 09:57:43 AM
(http://image.caglecartoons.com/277435/600/putins-medals.png)


(http://chappatte.com/sites/default/files/styles/dessins_small/public/2023-05/Sp230520ce-small.jpg?itok=F5MAovtq)


(http://chappatte.com/sites/default/files/styles/dessins_small/public/2023-02/BG230224c-small.jpg?itok=b0cApFyb)


(http://chappatte.com/sites/default/files/styles/dessins_small/public/2022-12/D221208ce-small.jpg?itok=c132yLw3)


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 20, 2023, 03:19:17 PM
the USA doesn't care about Ukraine's welfare
they only care about keeping Ukraine away from being re-absorbed by Russia, cuz it increases Russia's strength, making them that much harder to stop "next time"
all of America's "aid" is designed to keep Ukraine "independent of russia" and nothing more
there are no altruists in power here
this is real politik baby

so if I told ya in 1939, that Germany was gonna declare war on the USA real soon now
and 1940 rolled 'round and still no war with USA
would ya call that prediction "a fail"
I reckon ya would...

it's roughly 6 months until Putinas "election"
I don't quite understand the dynamics cuz it's so complicated with so many facets
n-body gravitational mechanics are WAY more complicated than just a 2-body one

but I do know that after the "election", Putina will seek "retribution"
and he'll have just a single means of achieving it
Russia will no longer have the conventional military equipment left
to make any further progress in Ukraine
then Putina will start "making the pitch" to the Russian people
that them no good nato lovin faschistas are comin to kidnap THEIR KIDS
AHHHH
and in the USA unleash a torrent of disinformatze
designed to reduce USA support

all big military decisions have a "political context"
nobody, and I mean nobody does a better job at political information manipulation than Russians

USA political decision makers will have to contend with declining public support for the ukrainian war, at a time when they're considering escalation
these politicians really only care about one thing
themselves
and if this decision isn't good for their political future
then they won't make it
and Putin will work very hard to convince them it's not gonna be in their best interest
ask Trump


"The reason for that is because Putler and his regime is well aware of the consequences to Russia if they use a nuke."

this is why China is pushing Putin into calling the West's bluff, and I know for a fact they're bluffing
there will be a token response, that will cease after Putin destroys a large Ukrainian town in retribution for the attack
and that's it...

remember Russia gave Syrians a Novichok factory, and when the syrians used it in a WMD, what was the US's response...
a stern letter

storms are comin
seek shelter

Excellent analysis once again Krim! Yes, the rough time to when Russia uses mini nukes can likely be put down to when their military hardware reserves get depleted pretty low. Low enough like you say to make any advance a non starter without of course using mini nukes or similar.

Not a time one would wish to be in Ukraine that's for sure.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 20, 2023, 04:05:35 PM
your praise is like sweet music to my ears...

a contrarian view is that the worst time is ALWAYS the best time...
you get to experience a lot of emotions, yours and people around ya in war time
get an iphone cuz of the camera
my kids and I put on gas masks in Tel Aviv during the rocket sirens when they were little, I should post the pics...
if I am allowed the use of the "G" word I will, OTOH...

Trench, you might get lucky and capture an iconic image in Ukraine
and fame and fortune (and infinite pooty tang) will follow in it's wake

the closer you are to the war, the more likely you are to become it's witness. and dare I say even 'participant'
Trench, watch an American movie called "Hacksaw Ridge" and picture it near Kherson
do you see what i'm showing ya, or not?

Trench, you can choose that yur either gonna die a lonely old man with 100% certainty , vrs a small chance you gonna die in Ukraine making food delivery ambulance driving, etc
and Trench, you can be CERTAIN that this woman WILL have genuine feelings for you, if you treat her with GREAT tenderness
like seriously, I know how to coax kidneys out of Russian wimmin by just 'sweet talkin' 'em

you wouldn't be the first guy to luck into his good fortune
but don't look at it when it goes off

i've come close to dying, so many times
I have lost all fear of death

you really need to GTF outta your village Trench
you want me to inspire you?
OK?

finish your place ASAP, and the moment you do, rent it out and live with yur ma, and tell yur employer yur leavin for Ukraine as a relief volunteer
and go do it

when ya come back to the UK you will have a woman with ya, I guarantee it, or I'll refund ya 300% of what this advice cost ya
don't pick for looks, pick one who will work with ya and improve yur lives together
go and earn your karma trench
and surely only goodness will follow you

--or--
remain in your village, and keep watching porn FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!
think about that, next time you "do it"
oopsie! what happened to it??!!

on top of that, HTF do you even eat your own cooking and keep your house tidy?
hmmmm, you only clean up when someone comes over, you think we don't ALL know this about you?
what brand of cardboard microwave oven frozen food do you prefer? Sainsbury?

yeah Trench, I can see why ya wouldn't wanna do anything to risk a swell life like that!
my bad!!!

and Jezzz louise
and it's only a 4.5 hr flight for you to...
I used to commute half that time, every single day
and never once grumbled about it
because I'm a mean, lean, fightin machine
and you one of them polite, soft spoken, english fellers






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 20, 2023, 07:05:02 PM
your praise is like sweet music to my ears...

a contrarian view is that the worst time is ALWAYS the best time...
you get to experience a lot of emotions, yours and people around ya in war time
get an iphone cuz of the camera
my kids and I put on gas masks in Tel Aviv during the rocket sirens when they were little, I should post the pics...
if I am allowed the use of the "G" word I will, OTOH...

Trench, you might get lucky and capture an iconic image in Ukraine
and fame and fortune (and infinite pooty tang) will follow in it's wake

the closer you are to the war, the more likely you are to become it's witness. and dare I say even 'participant'
Trench, watch an American movie called "Hacksaw Ridge" and picture it near Kherson
do you see what i'm showing ya, or not?

Trench, you can choose that yur either gonna die a lonely old man with 100% certainty , vrs a small chance you gonna die in Ukraine making food delivery ambulance driving, etc
and Trench, you can be CERTAIN that this woman WILL have genuine feelings for you, if you treat her with GREAT tenderness
like seriously, I know how to coax kidneys out of Russian wimmin by just 'sweet talkin' 'em

you wouldn't be the first guy to luck into his good fortune
but don't look at it when it goes off

i've come close to dying, so many times
I have lost all fear of death

you really need to GTF outta your village Trench
you want me to inspire you?
OK?

finish your place ASAP, and the moment you do, rent it out and live with yur ma, and tell yur employer yur leavin for Ukraine as a relief volunteer
and go do it

when ya come back to the UK you will have a woman with ya, I guarantee it, or I'll refund ya 300% of what this advice cost ya
don't pick for looks, pick one who will work with ya and improve yur lives together
go and earn your karma trench
and surely only goodness will follow you

--or--
remain in your village, and keep watching porn FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!
think about that, next time you "do it"

on top of that, HTF do you even eat your own cooking and keep your house tidy?
hmmmm, you only clean up when someone comes over, you think we don't ALL know this about you?
what brand of cardboard microwave oven frozen food do you prefer? Sainsbury?

yeah Trench, I can see why ya wouldn't wanna do anything to risk a swell life like that!
my bad!!!

Funny you mention 'Hacksaw Ridge' & Kherson. Kherson girl wrote that she watched Hacksaw Ridge in one of her early letters to me. I doubt it though didn't fit her girliness, think she was using a few off the peg template letters, but she wrote back to some of my questions, at least it may have been her lol.

At the moment there is this girl, she's only 19ish I think. Something about her just kind of connects with me, not sure what, she's pretty enough but it's not quite that. Usually UK girls I'm not too bothered about and girls that young. Just kind of feels like she fits kind off but maybe my imagination is running away with me. She's seems different in some ways, prettyish but not quite the usually personality that seems to often come with that. My mind tells me I want her and she wants me but it's complicated and probably me being a bit shot away who knows. Not much I can do as things stand as far as I can see, so will just see on that one.

Other than that yeah will just have to see how things go after finishing of the house. Getting to close to war could make me a victim as much as anything else so I'm not that eager. Would rather try a non war zone like Moldova first she what girls might crop up there. Your ideas are interesting though.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 20, 2023, 07:46:55 PM
I hear the meadow larks whistling above...
Trench...
Trench...
Trench is in LOVE

and...
this is "where the story ends"
it's just a little souvineer of a terrible year...

tis just 4 months to christmas mate
meet this girl then, not at all too early to talk about and plan,
tell her how much you just wanna help the people of Ukraine
and are plannin on volunteering
ok...

19 yr old ukrainian girls, are the sweetest thing you'll EVER see in your entire phuquing life
but NOOOOOO.....
you wanna spend christmas with yo mommy and eat that welsh puddin and rarebit doncha?
and then after the holidayz go back to eaten them frozen meat pies
WE KNOW!!!!

what destiny are ya gonna choose Trench?
you can make the choice tomorrow if you want
or you can wait, the rest of your life
and NEVER make it

at the VERY least pursue christmas with this future intention
that puddin is just like what ya had last year, and the year before, and the year before that

you ain't NEVER in your whole life seen 19 yr old red snapper
ok....

so enjoy your puddin Trench
Have yourself a very Merry Christmas
but thinka the present you coulda unwrapped
instead of socks and underwear from your mom

PS
da, in addition to the 100 million USD Tu-22M3 loss
a 500 million USD space probe designed to boost Russian morale
instead crashed into the moon and lowered it

you can feel the anxiety on the street in Moscow
a sharp increase in every kinda violence
you better not display "stupid foreigner face"  on the street at night
under them bright sodium lights
I know the photo apparat locations and used that route
if I had to go out and "do bizness"

I have the most amazing Israeli technology for altering my facial appearance
and can skip through all Russian facial recognition systems
or not, depending...

consistant inconstinancy equals the ability to deny accusations and supply positive evidence
while denying negative evidence, saying I was "setup"
and then have a 3rd party supply them with the "evidence" that proves your story...

then depending on your job title, you may be asked to "do favors"

if you are somebody with a lotta useful technical and magerial skills or in some cases linguistic skills
and you got some kinda even mid-level flow with ladies
and on top of that are able to figure out out a money making business in Kazakhstan, etc (check out gem stones, get GIA certified!)
some kinda import/export
easy, PZ stuff

after ya got this, and your russian bizness cards
the hands down best way to operate in Russia
is to know who the mob families are and where they hang out socially
believe it or not all this info is published on-line, I have an old copy
its 100s of pages

go to these places and meet a woman, don't matter a'tall what she looks like
it only matters if you can apprentice under her father,
and how useful your talents and passport will be to him
and you swear your loyalty to him, by saying if he ever needs help with any 'kind of problem' he can call you 24/7
and when he tells ya to shoot, YOU SHOOT!!!




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 21, 2023, 07:34:34 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-dam-bursts-washing-away-railroad-economy-to-lose-billions/ar-AA1fwMp3?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e8efd3ed905d4346a5442171fa5dcc83&ei=19

2nd collapsed dam in Russia in just the last week....
ya think anyone's gonna look at all the rest of them crackin dams?
with WHAT budget and people, may I ask?
all that's either in some offshore account, or at the front,
workin on the special "Merger and Acquisition" of Ukraine
this is how Russians do "bizness"

now China and Russia are makin their move together in Nicaragua
sure you dumb gringos go and build your freakin wall
so ya'll can keep thinkin that you're better than everybody else

ya'll gonna be facing three great tyrannies:
warlord kings
the morbidly rich keeping average people in squalor and ignorance while making themselves richer and more powerful
violence-enforced theocracies.

how many of ya'll will be fighting back I wonder?
sheeeeeet, ya'll kiddin me?
ya'll couldn't even handle puttin on a mask during a plague
you gonna launch WWIII over Ukraine?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

russians will all retreat into their dungeon of drunkeness
most of ya'll will do your own version

few of ya'll realize that an historical inflection point is on the horizon
there WILL be blood

little tiny signs of this are EVERYWHERE

ok BEEL,
my crazy business idea:

Luft Waffles

catchy, isn't it...


PostScript

ukrainian drones flew unimpeded all the way to Moscva (750 km)
shut down all airport traffic at all airports in Moscow causing massive flight diversions, delays
and exploded on the ulitsya next to that Suka on Kremlin TV

Russians of course blew up an orthodox church in chernigov and killed a little 6 yr old kid

there ain't really no difference except for quantity for blowing up little kids
with chemical explosives, whose energy is dervived from the re-arrangement in electrons that produces 1 or 2 electron volts
and fer a neutron explosive, where the energy level is 200 million electron volts

it's just bigger

I promise ya'll bog will not be any more pissed at ya fer killin kids with neutrons rather than with electrons
if you in for a kopec, ya might as well be in for a Ruble
n'est pas mes amis?

i'm just playin the devil's advocate
pro bono, of course

but, if this is the hand that's being dealt to you next year
how many ukrainian towns full of Ukrainain children are you willing to shove "into the pot"
before these losses start mounting and you decide to fold?

my Russian focus group, would like to know what your feelings are on this...
it's a kinda predictive analysis

spossiba


the best way to deceive others about themselves is to tell them the truth about yourself


 

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 22, 2023, 02:17:33 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-dam-bursts-washing-away-railroad-economy-to-lose-billions/ar-AA1fwMp3?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e8efd3ed905d4346a5442171fa5dcc83&ei=19

2nd collapsed dam in Russia in just the last week....
ya think anyone's gonna look at all the rest of them crackin dams?
with WHAT budget and people, may I ask?
all that's either in some offshore account, or at the front,
workin on the special "Merger and Acquisition" of Ukraine
this is how Russians do "bizness"

Damn lol.

See the Russian Rouble is on a pretty much downward trajectory against the British Pound and the US Dollar etc since the war began even now. So it looks like things are going to get increasingly worse for Russians inside Russia. Would have thought can only get so bad and then the system all cracks up. With Dams going adding to the economic mess that's only going to make more things worse. If the infrastructure breaks down then it's even more difficult for the economy to function. So again another matter that will push our Putler towards mini nukes at some point in the near future.

Any update from those you know in Russia or Ukraine on the present situation out there Krim?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 22, 2023, 07:47:37 AM
the middle-aged men of the village of "Rancho Del Krim"
are fightin in Zaporizhzhia, they all have gray beards and look like chechens
each little clique of dewds will have a cat, usually a small scrawny, dirty one
(do not EVER touch a "soldatskaya koshka" or you will freakin die a horrible death - SLOVO!)

they have "state-of-the-art" firearms, even look new,  but their appearance, is not like they're part of a professional army
they look more like "partisans"
their attire would never pass in USA or Israel armed forces, they'd consider it a HUGE lack of discipline
eta horrosho in Ruzzia
it ain't an army, it's an armed nationalistic mob of mercenaries (army = 5X salary of gopnick, and HaHa it's just "paper" the gummit prints...HaHa)
Render unto Putin, the things that are Putin's
Here Putin, take all of this paper!

wimmin folk, holding down the fort in crimea, tryin to survive the crashing ecomomy
50% yr inflation, no tourism, no agriculture, they hear explosions every other day now
and they gotta live with the daily stress of whether their huband/kid is gonna get killed
every Russian woman fears the mailbox and the phone or worse a knock on the door

men are discouraged from talkin to family about the war
village has spies who will rat out what soldiers are cryin to their families
and report em for discipline

the russian army is just another kind of Russian Gulag, you're a prisoner, not a hero of the russian people in pursuit of "glory"
in russia you leave one prison only to enter another one



100% Russia is gonna go nuclear either next yr or the yr after
and after they do, they're gonna say, "but we TOLD YOU we would, and you ignored it, so this is YOUR fault!

I see it...
but, i'm just a simple country boy
who stands at the edge
and isn't afriad to look below


once more picture of afore mentioned crimean labor village for agricultural workers created in Soviet time
from the south, facing north
this was my turf
a rambling collection of hillbilly shacks
it was a freakin paradise

Putin phuqued it up for me
and phuqued up all my plans in the far east as well
and even for my kid to go to school there

but instead of feeling like I've "lost something"
I feel like I've gained something, cuz I'm like a"coach" to two younger Russian guys now...
and they treat me like I'm their dad

all of you who reject the idea of the coming use of nuclear weapons in ukraine
do so, on the basis of "deterence"
and say, look this system has worked for 75 yr!
and don't realize how context changes the rules

ya'll never planned WTF to do, if Russia nukes Odesa
only if they nuked Ohio or Oslo
WTF, would Russians nuke Odesa?
hmmmm hmmmmm

bigger question, WTF are YOU gonna DO????





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 22, 2023, 12:19:08 PM
I reckon Krim and his acolyte Trench will still be blustering away about nukes being used on Ukraine by Russia in two years time.


"I'm telling youse....Russia is gonna nuke Ukraine shortly..you'll see "  :rolleyes:


Meanwhile in the real world orc mobiks are reporting that on the metro in Moscow,Muscovites look at them in uniform,move away and say to  them "Ewww murderers".



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 22, 2023, 01:19:22 PM
Oh Chelseaboy, you look just "darling" sweetheart in that blue and gold cheerleading costume, you are SUCH a flirt!
the legs are a bit hairy, but not bad...

the only losers there will be for certain, will be the "average" people on both sides
and the only winners, the oligarchs on both sides

at worse, yur fightin over which group of former soviet apparachiks should control ukraine
yeah, makes a whole hell of a lot of difference who that is, to a guy who only makes $200 USD/month
totally see why a half million killed and seriously wounded so far with no end in sight to get that "political uncertainty" outta the way, if that's not worth at least a million lives and a Trillion dollars, then honestly, I don't know what would!
Humpf!!!

can't WE ALL just GET ALONG?
Putin almost "had it" 10 yr ago with the  Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia and was 90% of the way to adding Ukraine

had he done so, and then taken the next step, which was to just loan Ukraine a lot of money it could never pay back, so they'd put a lien on the whole damn country and steal everything legally
and HE ALMOST DID IT!!!

but then, it's like the tide had come all the way in
and then it stopped, and reversed course,  and it keeps receding
and ain't stopped yet

Chelsea boy, you come near me and I will scratch your eyes out, bitch
uhhhmmmm, you heard me


you want exact date for something?
OK
August 24

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 22, 2023, 03:20:38 PM
I reckon Krim and his acolyte Trench will still be blustering away about nukes being used on Ukraine by Russia in two years time.


"I'm telling youse....Russia is gonna nuke Ukraine shortly..you'll see "  :rolleyes:


Meanwhile in the real world orc mobiks are reporting that on the metro in Moscow,Muscovites look at them in uniform,move away and say to  them "Ewww murderers".

There's possibly an outside chance if Russia falls apart quickly we may avoid them nuking Ukraine. The economy is getting into a dire state out there as the rouble is crashing through the floor and inflation takes hold. If it falls apart so quick that Putler and his cronies can't respond to the situation and left powerless then it might be avoided that way.

Other way is if Russia & Ukraine agree to Russia roughly annexing the present territory while Ukraine joins NATO. Such a peace treaty would avoid nukes but it's difficult to see either side agreeing, not impossible but difficult, probably difficult enough that it's unlikely to happen.

So yeah I agree with Krim that mini nuking Ukraine is the most likely situation unfortunately. Both Russia running out of armaments and a need for an end to the conflict before Russia's economy totally fails.

If Putler's back is to the wall like that then he is out of all other options he will have to go with the mini nuke option. Not doing so would be the end of him and his oligarch supporters would not allow that nir I doubt he would so it will be seen as the only logical and successful way out of the situation never mind what the rest of the world thinks they don't feature in the equation.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 22, 2023, 03:48:44 PM
Meanwhile in the real world orc mobiks are reporting that on the metro in Moscow,Muscovites look at them in uniform,move away and say to  them "Ewww murderers".

I can believe some move away. However let’s not lose sight of the fact that the majority of Russians support the war. Also, there would be consequences to denigrating soldiers. Probably a jail sentence.

This article suggests that Ukraine has destroyed several planes, launching drones from inside Russia. If the link doesn’t have a token let me know and I will provide an alternate source -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/22/five-jets-blown-up-three-days-inside-russia-ukraine-mod/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 08:15:51 AM
We have a defection story today.


A Russian pilot of a Mi-8AMTSH defected with his helicopter to Ukraine a few weeks ago.The chopper was transporting spare parts for SU-27 and SU-30M fighter jets.The operation was coordinated with the Ukrainian intelligence.The other two crew members of the Mi-8 were killed after the chopper landed somewhere in Kharkiv.The family of the Russian pilot was brought to safety.


Chopper and spare parts now in possession of the Ukrainian forces.


Source  ( Ukrainian) of story and pictures.


pravda.com.ua/news/2023/08/2.


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4NuaY9aAAAxToD?format=webp&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 08:16:40 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4NucvcasAADRYS?format=webp&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 08:17:20 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4NufVhaEAAbT4o?format=webp&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 23, 2023, 08:35:00 AM
love is like a cruise missile flyin over your head
if one ever hit ya, your lonliness would be dead

the deepest irony is where the world will drown itself

The biggest change over the last three decades in Russia nad the USA that feed the insecurities and resentments of the working class — has nothing to do with western “woke”ism, .
It has directly to do with a huge shift in the distribution of income and wealth.

and those who received the majority of the wealth,
are using their wealth and power to get the state to act in their interest, instead of the interest of the working class
the oligarchs will control the media for the working class, to make sure the only information they receive is information the oligarchs create for them

look how well it works
American oligarchs got a 1,000 trump supporters to go to prison for Trump's coup
Russian oligarchs got hundreds of thousands of Russians to die in Ukraine to support their "merger and acquisition", I guess you can call this a "hostile take over"
sheep only get led to the slaughterhouse

Nietzsche was right about humans being a "herd animal"
almost all the great things that were created by humans
were all done by individuals who weren't "part of the herd"
without them, we'd all be livin like superstitious southerners in Mississippi but without electricity
moonshine and watermelon rine
and dusky native girls workin in the fields

but I hear screaming, bull whips cracking
how long, how long

russian and amerikan elites
created a slave society for the masters


what happens, when slave societies fight a losing war, after it ends in defeat?
oopsie!

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on August 23, 2023, 10:13:33 AM
Prigozhin allegedly was killed today. His private plane was shot down over Tver. His name was on the passenger list of the seven, nine, or ten (depending on the report) people onboard.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on August 23, 2023, 10:42:57 AM
Yevgeny Prigozhin listed as passenger on plane which crashed with no survivors, Russian aviation authority says

Reuters has reported that the Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin was listed as a passenger on a private jet which crashed north of Moscow on Wednesday, the TASS news agency reported, citing Rosaviatsia, Russia’s aviation authority.

“An investigation has been launched into the Embraer plane crash that occurred tonight in the Tver region. According to the passenger list, among them is the name and surname of Yevgeny Prigozhin,” Rosaviatsia said.

Earlier TASS had reported that ten people had died after a private jet crashed in Russia’s Tver region north of Moscow. The jet, en route from Moscow to St Petersburg, was carrying seven passengers and three crew.

AP confirms story.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on August 23, 2023, 10:52:44 AM
 Russia has removed Sergei Surovikin, nicknamed "General Armageddon", as head of the air force after he vanished from public view during a Wagner mercenary mutiny against the top army brass, two Russian news outlets reported on Wednesday.

A recipient of Russia's top military award, Surovikin is the most senior Russian military figure to lose his job over the June 23-34 mutiny, which President Vladimir Putin said could have tipped Russia into civil war.

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin, who spearheaded the revolt, remains free and on Monday posted a video address which he suggested was shot in Africa. The two men Prigozhin had wanted to topple - Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Valery Gerasimov, chief of general staff - remain in their posts.

Once commander of Russia's overall war effort in Ukraine when he was lauded by Russian and Western military experts as one of its most effective operators, Surovikin has not yet been publicly fired.

However, Russian state news agency RIA cited an unnamed but "informed" source as saying: "Ex-chief of the Russian Air and Space Forces Sergei Surovikin has now been relieved of his post, while Colonel-General Viktor Afzalov, head of the main staff of the Air Force, is temporarily acting as commander-in-chief of the Air Force".

The RBC news outlet - citing two unnamed sources familiar with the situation - also reported that Surovikin had been removed from his post.

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-appoints-new-aerospace-forces-chief-after-incumbent-vanished-during-2023-08-23/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 11:07:00 AM
Sky News says Prigozhin was on the passenger list of the crashed plane and that ten people were on board.


However,latest report from Russian news agencies is that eight bodies have been found.


Hmmm


Wonder if Prigozhin is one of the missing bodies ?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 23, 2023, 11:12:18 AM
Apparently it looks like he was:

Via Euronews: Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin reportedly killed in plane crash en route from Moscow
http://www.euronews.com/2023/08/23/wagner-mercenary-chief-yevgeny-prigozhin-killed-in-plane-crash

Looks like the Kremlin got to him and knocked him off as I said they would. Silly off him aborting the coup and going for a 'deal' lol. Knew how that one would end better to just take your chances in that situation once the ball is in play.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 11:15:05 AM
Apparently it looks like he was:

Via Euronews: Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin reportedly killed in plane crash en route from Moscow
http://www.euronews.com/2023/08/23/wagner-mercenary-chief-yevgeny-prigozhin-killed-in-plane-crash (http://www.euronews.com/2023/08/23/wagner-mercenary-chief-yevgeny-prigozhin-killed-in-plane-crash)

Looks like the Kremlin got to him and knocked him off as I said they would. Silly off him aborting the coup and going for a 'deal' lol. Knew how that one would end better to just take your chances in that situation once the ball is in play.


Only eight bodies recovered out of the ten listed as being on board though.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 11:39:23 AM
If Prigozhin is confirmed dead,seems the orc military is not going to take the news very well at all..going by their telegram channels.


The Wagnerites in Syria are going mental . >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on August 23, 2023, 11:46:31 AM
The two missing persons stepped out of the plane for a smoke and avoided the crash.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on August 23, 2023, 01:00:14 PM
The two missing persons stepped out of the plane for a smoke and avoided the crash.

Those must have been mighty big steps.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 23, 2023, 01:21:52 PM
a bad week for aviation in russia
ah wonder what else might happen this week...

putin will drive more
but not over bridges!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 23, 2023, 02:20:23 PM
If Prigozhin is confirmed dead,seems the orc military is not going to take the news very well at all..going by their telegram channels.


The Wagnerites in Syria are going mental . >:D

Pretty much so, they're aviation authority is now confirming he was on board:

http://edition.cnn.com/webview/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-08-23-23?adobe_mc

Probably a sabotage job or something like that.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 23, 2023, 04:10:43 PM
The plot thickens.


A second Prigozhin-owned private jet ,which was accompanying the one that crashed,has landed in Moscow.


Putler's motorcade,flanked by many police cars,filmed racing through the streets of Moscow heading for the Kremlin tonight.


Meanwhile Wagner soldiers in Belarus release a statement.


"There's a lot of talk right now about what the Wagner Group will do.We can tell you one thing.We are getting started,get ready for us."


Of course there are nukes in Belarus now. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 23, 2023, 05:32:03 PM
The plot thickens.


A second Prigozhin-owned private jet ,which was accompanying the one that crashed,has landed in Moscow.


Putler's motorcade,flanked by many police cars,filmed racing through the streets of Moscow heading for the Kremlin tonight.


Meanwhile Wagner soldiers in Belarus release a statement.


"There's a lot of talk right now about what the Wagner Group will do.We can tell you one thing.We are getting started,get ready for us."


Of course there are nukes in Belarus now. >:D

Not a bad article on the situation here:

http://news.italy24.press/trends/804227.html

Prigozhin was stupid firstly in not going all the way with the coup and secondly by not laying low and out of sight by taking no obvious risks such as this. Prigozhin acted in a callous way to the recruits he got from the prisons yet I think many saw him more capable a military leader than Gerasimov, Shoigu and some others. So possible threat from Wagner if they don't break up and possibly even elements of the army some who may have been sympathetic to Prigozhin. That or possible loss of morale in the Russian Army. Before this happened there were reports of several hundred mercenaries going missing in Belarus without Belarus or Russia being sure where they had gone, so a possible threat.

All depends what happens from here, either a fizzling out of Wagner or some sort of action. Odds are apart from Russia trying to absorb Wagner fighters into the Russian Army if it can odds are we have probably seen the end of Wagner on the battlefield in Ukraine, possibly the end of Wagner itself.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 24, 2023, 03:02:24 AM
Budanov has now confirmed the defection story i posted on here previously.


He told Radio Svoboda the details of the operation.


They "found the right approach to the pilot,created conditions to secretly evacuate his entire family ,and ultimately made it so that he could move this helicopter with a crew that had no idea what was happening ".


Besides the pilot there were two other people on board.When they realized where they landed they tried to flee.


"Unfortunately they were eliminated.We would have liked to take them alive,but it is what it is.The pilot is feeling great,he's doing well ."


The helicopter is currently in Kyiv,and no-one is holding the pilot behind bars.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 24, 2023, 03:26:57 AM
GUR Airborne forces have landed in Crimea.


GUR units have today made a landing in Crimea as part of a special operation on the Cape Tarkhankut -confirmed GUR representative Yusov.


According to him all tasks within the special operation were completed.Notably this is the very cape where the S-400 was destroyed yesterday.


Orcs are already complaining that "nobody was destroyed and the Ukrainian saboteurs left without losses . "


Media reported that since 5 in the morning ,near the settlement of Mayak on the Cape Tarkhankut ,explosions could be heard. In the village of Mayak is the base of the 3rd Radio Technical Regiment.Also on the Tarkanhut peninsular is the Radar node RLK "Sky-M"and RLS "Kasta-2E2".


Russians are writing about ten Ukrainian saboteurs who arrived in boats and opened fire.


There are no losses amomg the GUR personnel ,but there are losses among the orcs personnel,as well as it's forces and means.


Meanwhile the special operation continues-Yusov.


Good to know the UK Royal Marines training of Ukrainian troops is being put to good use. ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 24, 2023, 03:43:44 AM
"We have the ability to hit any part of temporarily occupied Crimea as of now.We can reach the enemy at absolutely any point.Those who have done stupid things,it is better for them to leave ",head of the GUR Kyrylo Budanov said in a statement.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 25, 2023, 08:18:18 AM
verily, for it is written,
that those who live by the sledge hammer
will also die by the sledge hammer

you can deny the coming calamities
but they're gonna come anyway
the difference is, YOU won't be prepared
and those who understand, will be

Wagner's 2nd in command body confirmed by his "Nazi tattoos" LOL
I guess it takes one nazi to fight another one...

so in order to prevent maidan from happening in Russia
and secure more riches for the oligarchs
Putin's efforts have instead created the ideal conditions for Maidan to happen in Russia
and the potential for oligarchs to lose their riches
putin is an arsonist, who has accidentally set fire to himself, while trying to burn down his neighbor's house to steal their property and kidnap their children

when protest is outlawed
only outlaws will protest
in outlaw style

when the cauldron is heated enuff and starts to boil
it just takes a little spark to catalyze the reaction

Maidan was launched in kyiv with a single tweet
 
seeing this possibility crawl towards reality
and based on what pretty much the entire population of russia is feeling and experiencing
selling the idea of nukes to the russian people
will be not a problem, as long as it's presented as "The Final Solution" for the Ukrainian "Problem"

dey's gonna be leetle tiny nukes
ain't no need to go all "strategic" forces, yada, yada, launch the minuteman! no, no, Russia is gonna "soft sell" those leetle nukes
the usa no longer has a tactical nuke strategy
Russia ALWAYS did
'tis but another idea, one of many, whose time is approaching

Biden's strategy is to ensure minimum risk to the USA
he ain't gonna use nukes in response

and whatever military action he does commit to
will end after Russia blames the attack on Ukrainians as well as NATO
and putin uses another mini nuke on a ukrainian civilian target as a reprisal for NATO's viloation of Russian territorial integrity
and tells NATO, this is tit-for-tat from now on
so go ahead and cry "havoc" and let slip the dogs of war
that sword cuts both ways
and the Russian side of the blade is MUCH sharper thatn Ukraine/NATO's side

it's like the Mexican "New Generation Cartel" who likes to slaughter whole bus loads of locals who don't bow deeply enough
vrs Barney Fife and Andy

Cartels don't play by "Mayberry" rules!
don't matter if they is Mexican or Russian

Russians consider me a "tekhnical" and not a "politikal"
the distinction is irrelevant
cuz they're actually both math based
and I'm REAL GOOD at math


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 25, 2023, 09:14:03 AM
verily, for it is written,
that those who live by the sledge hammer
will also die by the sledge hammer

you can deny the coming calamities
but they're gonna come anyway
the difference is, YOU won't be prepared
and those who understand, will be

Wagner's 2nd in command body confirmed by his "Nazi tattoos" LOL
I guess it takes one nazi to fight another one...

so in order to prevent maidan from happening in Russia
and secure more riches for the oligarchs
Putin's efforts have instead created the ideal conditions for Maidan to happen in Russia
and the potential for oligarchs to lose their riches, and just be ordinary Russians
a prospect that terrifies them all

when protest is outlawed
only outlaws will protest

when the cauldron is heated enuff and starts to boil
it just takes a little spark to catalyze the reaction

Maidan was launched in kyiv with a single tweet
 
seeing this possibility crawl towards reality
and based on what pretty much the entire population of russia is feeling and experiencing
selling the idea of nukes to the russian people
will be not a problem

dey's gonna be leetle tiny nukes
ain't no need to go all "strategic" forces, yada, yada, launch the minuteman! no, no, Russia is gonna "soft sell" those leetle nukes
the usa no longer has a tactical nuke strategy
Russia ALWAYS did
'tis but another idea, one of many, whose time is approaching

Biden's strategy is to ensure minimum risk to the USA
he ain't gonna use nukes in response

and whatever military action he does commit to
will end after Russia blames the attack on Ukrainians as well as NATO
and putin uses another mini nuke on a ukrainian civilian target as a reprisal for NATO's viloation of Russian territorial integrity
and tells NATO, this is tit-for-tat from now on
so go ahead and cry "havoc" and let slip the dogs of war
that sword cuts both ways
and the Russian side of the blade is MUCH sharper thatn Ukraine/NATO's side

it's like the Mexican "New Generation Cartel" who likes to slaughter whole bus loads of locals who don't bow deeply enough
vrs Barney Fife and Andy

Cartels don't play by "Mayberry" rules!
don't matter if they is Mexican or Russian

Presumably Putler can use the same technique to gain control of Moldova, Georgia and the Stans. Either they agree to join the Russian Federation or it's mini nukes followed up by Russian Army invasion. I wouldn't like to be a non-nuclear, non-NATO member in this day and age. Shame Ukraine decided to foolishly give up it's nukes it would be in a state of peace and tranquility if it had not.

Potential for NATO to extend membership to Moldova, Georgia and even the Stans while there is still time if it wanted to but doesn't look like it does.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 25, 2023, 09:44:26 AM
if it were up to me
i'd allow American pilots who want to be highly paid "volunteers" fly for Ukraine in American F-16s, A-10s etc, as "Flying Tigers" circa WWII with China
technically, it is illegal for them to do so now...and the pilots are motivated by big $$$ that ukraine really can't afford, we could change that in an hour

Russia STILL has a MASSIVE wealth outflow to the west, to escape the economic/currency problems at home, in the past yr, there was over a 200 billion USD outflow
every bit of this money is oligarch money
the West should get a giant forensics accounting team together
and I'd grab every single cent, and put it into a trust for the people of Ukraine
and that'll have a bigger effect on the war, than 100 F-16s piloted by Tom Cruise
but western banks have prevented ya from doin that
they're lookin after their client's money with the appropriate fiduciary responsibility
banks ALL LOVE CARTELS!!!


so Trench-foot,
have ya thought about the idea of hitting the "reset button" on your life
and make one final attempt at finding your good fortune...
through the process of "personal redemption" through selfless sacrifice for others
nudge...nudge...wink...wink...

taking off 6 months to a yr to "serve" in Ukraine
won't cost ya much, while you're renting out your place
you'll live "rough" in Ukraine
get your own koshka, it'll look good on your Utube channel
englishman and cat deliver food and medicine
awwwwww. so cute


then when ya return to "jolly ole..."
you haz woman, with some kinda professional skill
and you has small income from property

ain't nothin preventing you from moving to greener pasture
than your village
nothin tying you there
two of you will be job seekers in London
i'd imagine, that after a year there, the two of you together will have about 3X the income compared to when you were working in yo mama's village

but that'd be an awful lot of work...
you'll think about it tomorrow...

putin has a diminishing possibility of once more assisting Trump into the white house...
this decreasing probability, means he can't rely on it
OTOH, he'd prefer this approach to a plutonium one
depending on the probability of success he may wait to use the nuke until after the election
OTOH, the ideal time, would be right BEFORE the election

and give Trump a carefully written/rehearsed speech beforehand, a la Manchurian candidate
and conspire to DO BOTH!!!!  hard to predict which'd be more damaging to the west, nuke or trump

what a coup that' be
a crazy plot worthy off a spy novel
but it was in 2016 as well

would Biden commit to a military escalation course of action, right before the election?
I reckon it depends what the polls say
so Russia will target public support in the disinformatze space

i'd like to see the russian focus group analysis and projected poll numbers for this
I hope it's not Deripaska doing this again

who's gonna run the Internet Research Agency now...
twitter/musk is pro-oligarch, so that'll be one of the main conduits
and Tucker Carlson






Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 25, 2023, 12:07:46 PM
so Trench-foot,
have ya thought about the idea of hitting the "reset button" on your life
and make one final attempt at finding your good fortune...
through the process of "personal redemption" through selfless sacrifice for others
nudge...nudge...wink...wink...

taking off 6 months to a yr to "serve" in Ukraine
won't cost ya much, while you're renting out your place
you'll live "rough" in Ukraine
get your own koshka, it'll look good on your Utube channel
englishman and cat deliver food and medicine
awwwwww. so cute


then when ya return to "jolly ole..."
you haz woman, with some kinda professional skill
and you has small income from property

ain't nothin preventing you from moving to greener pasture
than your village
nothin tying you there
two of you will be job seekers in London
i'd imagine, that after a year there, the two of you together will have about 3X the income compared to when you were working in yo mama's village

but that'd be an awful lot of work...
you'll think about it tomorrow...

Was thinking about it last night, not Ukraine but Moldova. The house is taking longer than expected as usual. It's getting there and is mostly down to small jobs but every job seems to take longer than hoped. Ukraine would mean finishing the house first and while I should definitely be done before Christmas it's like I say still running on. A lot of the issue is I can't get more than a few days each week to work at it as have to do my job as well to bring the money in to pay for it all. Time over again I would have just done a quicker conversion job, it would bring in less money monthly) smaller rooms no ensuite toilets) but I would have been done in about a year. Still it will look nicer and better when done and something that should be easier to rely upon for money and build upon by eventually having my hands free from having to work for an Employer.

Issues remain at present beyond the house thing. I still wouldn't be seen as all that wealthy in comparison to some in the UK and while I don't want a woman on the basis of that it can be a bit of a thorn in the side. I mean in time I will able to be able to afford a better car so it won't show as easily at the moment my car is kind of an aging supermini in not too great looking shape but it serves purpose of getting me around while I don't have any money to get something better. Once the house is done I can get something better so that will look better. At the moment it probably only serves as an illustration of where I'm at financially to women. It's kind of funny how many women will take a guy's job, car he drives and peg him based on that (possibly clothes also) when he could in fact be doing quite a lot better for himself than they think. A lot of jobs in the UK you get much the same no matter what you do but women still use the old fashioned job status method in their workings.

So frustrating at the moment. Just trying to work something out. I could get out to Moldova for a few days, price has gone up a bit as Wizz Air have stopped flying there and the other airlines are a bit more so it looks like the price including hotel will be about £500 or so. Then cost of getting to the airport, parking, money to spend while out there so I would guess at £700-800 for about three full days out there. So it's something I've got to weigh up a bit. Time doesn't seem to be on my side as only so long before Ukraine and probably Moldova following it go. That would then take the easy options (at least as they once were) of the table and leave me with Russia (visa), Belarus (long flight around) possibly Georgia (depending how long for & religious) and then the Stans left. So potentially the good easy times of going out to Ukraine gone if things go the way we think they are going to go.

Perhaps I should have learned Spanish ::)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 25, 2023, 12:21:56 PM
soft spoken English gentleman will have a hard time with Latinas and Latins, i'd recommend them europeans for you Anglos
it's like the difference between europan honey bees and african killer honey bees
just would't recommend latinas for ya, they are VOLATILE and won't mix well with someone more "reserved"
but you could have a good travel adventure and a LOT of fun there

so the answer is NO to you trying to break out of your rut...
same ole...same ole...

what is it they say, about repeating the same failed ideas
but expecting a different outcome...

you are resistant to any course of action that requires risk and change
so you are unable to entertain any improvements to your life
because you'd be required to climb out of the rut and take risks and make changes

you blame the world for your bad fortune
but the world didn't make this decision, YOU DID

everything I've gotten in this life, came from taking risks, and working as hard as I could to succeed
the worst thing a guy can do, is to spend the rest of his life in his home village, where he's "comfortable"
doncha see that Trench, and what this has done to your sense of ambition?
you have none...
you just wanna maintain the comfort zone
your lifestyle decision, just ain't compatible with you finding a woman
and this "problem" ain't because of geography
it's because of your "psychology"

and now I will smack you with the Zen of Enlightenment
SWACK!!




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 26, 2023, 03:50:23 AM
Ukrainian forces believe they have broken through the most difficult line of Russian defences in the south and will now be able to advance more quickly ,a Commander fighting in the south told Reuters.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 26, 2023, 07:05:09 AM
ukraine has roughly 2 more months of good weather...
and then their advance will slow...
they will not be able to cut-off crimea this yr

putin, would never, never "make it" as a comedian or musician
his sense of "timing" is way, way, off
he coulda done all this when Trump was in office and had a TOTALLY different outcome
but..
timing over North Stream (LOL!!!)

however, if Ukraine DOES succeed in cutting off Crimea, NEXT YEAR
then the time will come to him

and by the time the first tactical mini/micro nuke goes off
Ukraine will realize too late, that:
"Nothing Fails Like Success"



Everyone outside Russia, has their own bias about Russia's potential use of nukes
they are misreading the signs
Russian "nuke talking" ain't for some kinda propaganda
it's partly to "psyche themselves" up for it
and brainwash the people intto WANTING IT!!
Russian nukes will get out those hard to clean Ukrainian stains

Russia has a history of nuking their own people (even deliberately) MANY times during the Soviet Period
history ALWAYS repeats, until humans learn something from it
they rarely do

the "cost" of a Russian defeat in Ukraine
is much higher than the cost of the war
and the "return" on a Russian victory in Ukraine
is also much higher than the cost of the war
and this is why it continues

check with "accounting" and see if this isn't so

Putin's plan for nuking Amerika...
is ju jitsu and not nuclear karate
if he can pull off another Trump campaign win

he and Trump will kiss the American government "good bye"
hey, hey, hey, goodbye
it SEEMS like an insurmountable task to hoist Trump back up on the presidential pedastal
it'll take a lot more this time, than hacking emails and bribing the FBI
2016 they made mistakes with Flynn and Manafort, that was the beginning of the downfall

2024 is gonna be a small historical inflection point
the bigger ones are still aways down the road
religious people will all say that humanity deseves what's coming for their sins
I ain't religious, but this is one of the few things I am in agreement with...

the older I get, the more I despise my species

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 27, 2023, 07:59:50 AM
ukraine has roughly 2 more months of good weather...
and then their advance will slow...
they will not be able to cut-off crimea this yr

putin, would never, never "make it" as a comedian or musician
his sense of "timing" is way, way, off
he coulda done all this when Trump was in office and had a TOTALLY different outcome
but..
timing over North Stream (LOL!!!)

however, if Ukraine DOES succeed in cutting off Crimea, NEXT YEAR
then the time will come to him

and by the time the first tactical mini/micro nuke goes off
Ukraine will realize too late, that:
"Nothing Fails Like Success"



Everyone outside Russia, has their own bias about Russia's potential use of nukes
they are misreading the signs
Russian "nuke talking" ain't for some kinda propaganda
it's partly to "psyche themselves" up for it
and brainwash the people intto WANTING IT!!
Russian nukes will get out those hard to clean Ukrainian stains

Russia has a history of nuking their own people (even deliberately) MANY times during the Soviet Period
history ALWAYS repeats, until humans learn something from it
they rarely do

the "cost" of a Russian defeat in Ukraine
is much higher than the cost of the war
and the "return" on a Russian victory in Ukraine
is also much higher than the cost of the war
and this is why it continues

check with "accounting" and see if this isn't so

Putin's plan for nuking Amerika...
is ju jitsu and not nuclear karate
if he can pull off another Trump campaign win

he and Trump will kiss the American government "good bye"
hey, hey, hey, goodbye
it SEEMS like an insurmountable task to hoist Trump back up on the presidential pedastal
it'll take a lot more this time, than hacking emails and bribing the FBI
2016 they made mistakes with Flynn and Manafort, that was the beginning of the downfall

2024 is gonna be a small historical inflection point
the bigger ones are still aways down the road
religious people will all say that humanity deseves what's coming for their sins
I ain't religious, but this is one of the few things I am in agreement with...

the older I get, the more I despise my species

I assume yo mama's village will be safe with all these inflections inflecting away from the UK?

Please tell me the shire shall be safe Master Frodo?

Yeah I think the Ukrainian offensive is now dead in the water, we keep hearing about how they have made a significant breakthrough in the south but little sign of any actual significant advancement. Winter as you say will soon be setting in and with it any hope of Ukraine delivering in their much lauded counter offensive.

I've got stuff to sort out that's for sure. House has to be done before any venture off abroad. Hopefully not much longer now it's starting to look good but good takes time. Still considering a trip to Moldova while the warm weather is still around. It would be handy to scout out the terrain and see if I can turf up any decent women. I think that is really possible this time even though time would be limited.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 27, 2023, 08:51:30 AM
Trench, why you so worried?
your life is probably more than half over ALREADY
if I were you, I'd be far more worried about LIVING than I would be about DYING
once you're dead - you ain't got NO worries mate!

another day, another Russian official dies in a plane crash, this is how they tell time in Russia now, "I saw her 3 dead generals ago"
Putin will read their Eulogy

Trench, Ukraine's strategy HAS NOT been a failure!
they were in an ideal spot in Bakhmut to DEVASTATE russians
the terrain, plus the "not one step back" made Bakhmut a shooting gallery
and Ukraine got rid of a LOT of Russia's ability to inflict casualties on them
Ukraine HAS to fight this way, cuz they ain't quite the size of the Anglo-American Army on D-Day
Russians OUTNUMBER them in EVERY WAY
Ukraine's military strategy is called "subtraction"
once they get the total down to some "threshold"
then you'll see some action
but there's a long, long way to go


the Ukrainian offensive's goal is to encircle Crimea like it was Leningrad back in '42
the big problem with this is best explained by chess:
this move is CHECK but not CHECKMATE
and when you put Putin in CHECK
is when he will immediately CHECKMATE YOU (like Prigozhin!)

ya wanna hear America's plan to respond to a Russian nuke?
they're gonna attack the Black Sea Fleet and air bases in Crimea (Russian territory!) with conventional weapons
there will be Russian civilian casualties
Ukrainians will be gloating on Russian TV
Russian blood pressure be like a thermometer so hot mercury shoots out the top

the next day Putinuh takes out the golden key
and opens the box the devil gave him
and everybody in a big city in Ukraine dies almost instantly
including their dogs, cats, and pet birds
it's called a tactical neutron bomb
it kills by a neutron burst at detonation
a big ass flash in the sky, some windows break
and within 2 km everyone is dead
your move NATO...

and BTW, when Putin sees endless videos of the Ukrainian city he killed
he completely LOSES IT!!!

Then guess what happens NEXT, you dumb ass western phuquers?
ya shoulda just let "us" work out the details of the commonwealth with Ukraine instead of Paul Manofort
and EVERYBODY would've been 100 times better off, cuz he sold ya'll out and THEN LOOK at what happened after that!!!
pridorki to the right of me
and pridorki to the left
somehow, I must continue on...
but Jeez Louise, things have gotten way, way beyond mere bardak
compared to back in the Yeltsin/Berozovsky period




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 27, 2023, 08:56:43 AM
The AFU are preparing a powerful strike on the second line of the orcs defence in Zaporizhzhia.


Ukrainian military "are at the distance of the next strike on a series of prepared Russian defensive positions " in the Zaporizhzhia region,according to analysts from the Institute of study of war.


Also,in the Operational Command South ,it was noted that the orcs started having serious logistical problems as three of their ammo depots were blown up in one day.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 27, 2023, 11:45:34 AM
when you dumb asses bomb sevastopol
and get 20,000 or 30,000 ukrainian civilians killed as a Russian retort
then what?
do something to kill even more?

like I said, consider it a strategic chess move,
putinah is gonna corner you in this pocket
and the west is COMPLETELY unprepared

this is the path it's gonna go down

why doncha all see, that Putin is NOT going to retaliate DIRECTLY against the West's counter-attack after his initial Neutron bomb deployment against Zelensky and Ukraine's HQ

of course not...
Putin's gonna pick a city like Lvov or Ternopil, whichever has the highest logistic value and do it indirectly
and hit it with a netron bomb as well
and then use multiple to clear pathways through ukraine's defenses and logistics center
destoying both within 24 hours
like the blitzkrieg in France 1940 after that
and an even bigger slaughter of civilians
by the time the killin is over in Ukraine
it'll be as bad as the great patriotic war
so this means, it hasn't really gotten started yet
cuz ain't no WMDs
YET...


ya'll should read about neutron bombs, google is your friend
and the images this creates wil all get magnified to a very high level by the media
horrifing it's western audience, but NOT it's Russian one!!
feel the difference?
eta russkaya stal

the USA has a small stockpile of W82 warheads
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W82

russians have 10 times more of these
2 kt neutron bomb enhanced radiation weapons



this is putin raising the ante of the bet, he'll put a ukrainian city in the pot and nato puts in a crimean russian airstrip
the ratings will decide what happens in the next episode
I predict the Russian show will get way, way, more viewers than the western one


besides the technical advantage for neutron bombs
there is also a PR one!
you can sell a neutron bomb as a kinder, gentler weapon
cuz afterwards, there is very little damage to see
the only clue, would be the smell after a few days
cuz even the buzzards and rats will be dead

when these images hit the global media space
will everyone put on their mask LOL?
Putin will have ya by the balls
and he is gonna squeeze as hard as he freakin can


Russians own 90% of the neutron bombs that exist on earth today
and then why doncha do a cost/benefit analysis, horrosho?
gozpedy, I gotta tell you people EVERYTHING!!!

you guys have any clue about how many Atomika people there are in Russia?
and that without Russians China and Iran would never of had a nuclear program
ya'll better stop keepin your heads in the sand

cuz the only way, you're gonna know when the tsunami is coming
is when it hits your naked ass, which you can then kiss goodby a second before it happens





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 27, 2023, 02:30:39 PM
And with that a pleasant reminder that we British are currently the second biggest contributor to the Ukraine war:

http://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-second-largest-partner-in-ukraines-fight-against-russia/

Good-o, well with that out the way which should keep us in good stead with Ukrainian women I have just thought of a pressing point circa Krim's point above.

If Putler uses neutron bombs or mini nukes what's the chances that western countries will ban their civilians from visiting Russia? i.e how it used to be back in Soviet Union times.

So if Putler is going to hover up Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia & the Stans by this method then that leaves nowhere for us to hunt for pooty tang that is Russian speaking!!!

Possibly only Belarus which is a not as easy flight and cost as it used to be but there's a fair chance that will be banned as well.

So if so that doesn't leave a lot of time for me & others to get sorted with a FSW.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 27, 2023, 03:41:26 PM
Trench, wake up man!

I am reminded of the book "Slaughterhouse 5" by Kurt Vonnegut
the part where he saw the Ost female worker prisoners all naked and taking showers, hundreds of gorgeous women, naked in one spot, the water flowing over their soap covered skin
unfortunately...

this was Dresden on Feb 26, 1945
and every single one of em was burned to death later that evening, their once beautiful bodies turned into charred husks curled up into the fetal position

courtesey of the Lancasters of the  the Royal Air Force

let he who is without sin, yada yada....

everyone, everyone, everyone
is some species of sinner
everyone
you, Trench are more on the sloth side
can you guess what my sins are?

awwww c'mon...

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 27, 2023, 04:43:01 PM
My guess would be something you have done with women?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 27, 2023, 07:04:02 PM
never that, t'was women who taught me all I know about life
all the bad things that i've done in my life
means I don't have a guilt free soul

cuz I did do some REALLY, REALLY bad and deeply disturbing things in foreign countries
cuz it was super easy for me to get away with it
and it earned me a good life
the ends always justify the means, no matter who you are
the only way to climb up that ladder
is to kick off the ones ahead and behind you
before they try and do it to you







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 28, 2023, 01:48:19 AM
Trench, why you so worried?
your life is probably more than half over ALREADY
if I were you, I'd be far more worried about LIVING than I would be about DYING
once you're dead - you ain't got NO worries mate!

another day, another Russian official dies in a plane crash, this is how they tell time in Russia now, "I saw her 3 dead generals ago"
Putin will read their Eulogy

Trench, Ukraine's strategy HAS NOT been a failure!
they were in an ideal spot in Bakhmut to DEVASTATE russians
the terrain, plus the "not one step back" made Bakhmut a shooting gallery
and Ukraine got rid of a LOT of Russia's ability to inflict casualties on them
Ukraine HAS to fight this way, cuz they ain't quite the size of the Anglo-American Army on D-Day
Russians OUTNUMBER them in EVERY WAY
Ukraine's military strategy is called "subtraction"
once they get the total down to some "threshold"
then you'll see some action
but there's a long, long way to go


the Ukrainian offensive's goal is to encircle Crimea like it was Leningrad back in '42
the big problem with this is best explained by chess:
this move is CHECK but not CHECKMATE
and when you put Putin in CHECK
is when he will immediately CHECKMATE YOU (like Prigozhin!)


ya wanna hear America's plan to respond to a Russian nuke?
they're gonna attack the Black Sea Fleet and air bases in Crimea (Russian territory!) with conventional weapons
there will be Russian civilian casualties
Ukrainians will be gloating on Russian TV
Russian blood pressure be like a thermometer so hot mercury shoots out the top

the next day Putinuh takes out the golden key
and opens the box the devil gave him
and everybody in a big city in Ukraine dies almost instantly
including their dogs, cats, and pet birds
it's called a tactical neutron bomb
it kills by a neutron burst at detonation
a big ass flash in the sky, some windows break
and within 2 km everyone is dead
your move NATO...

and BTW, when Putin sees endless videos of the Ukrainian city he killed
he completely LOSES IT!!!

Then guess what happens NEXT, you dumb ass western phuquers?
ya shoulda just let "us" work out the details of the commonwealth with Ukraine instead of Paul Manofort
and EVERYBODY would've been 100 times better off, cuz he sold ya'll out and THEN LOOK at what happened after that!!!
pridorki to the right of me
and pridorki to the left
somehow, I must continue on...
but Jeez Louise, things have gotten way, way beyond mere bardak
compared to back in the Yeltsin/Berozovsky period

I think this analysis is spot on Krim, yes I can see Putler going for the neutron bomb or mini nuke option at if Ukraine takes the land corridor to Crimea around Melitopol. Odds are that will roughly co-inside with Russia army dwindling on its armaments stockpile so Putler will feel that is the option he must use. Like you say probably next year.

Yeah, while I'm in no hurry to throw my life away I'm not getting any younger and trying to live a life is the main thing. So for me balancing caution, risk & potential return. Life has kind of sucked growing up in the UK with women, not just for me but many men it seems. And matters have only gotten worse for today's young guys. Young girls getting themselves obese is far more numerous today than in my day. I just think of the number of girls that takes out of the dating market for guys. Feminism the main issue though for both our generations, women seeing men not as the solution but something to be used even fight against. The over expansion of university education hasn't helped either as back in the day if you had a bit of intelligence and was willing to work hard at studies for a bit you could access jobs other guys couldn't who weren't that academic. Over the past 20 years or so exams have been made increasingly easy so that almost anyone who wanted to get to Uni could do so and get a degree. That just kind of screwed things up as people of my generation were led on at School to believe that if you be serious, diligent and work hard at studies you will get somewhere. Unfortunately that never sounded out as too many followed that path and the labour market was swamped with grads. This year the government has made exams more difficult in England and pass rates for GCSE's have fallen away quite a bit. That's a step in the right direction as it's important to separate the wheat from the chaff for the benefit of both, even those who don't do well at academia can do better by getting going in the workplace earlier. Too late for me though and it will take a number of years to unwind the situation maybe a decade or more if they continue to stay on course in that direction.

For me I've just got to try and make the best of what I can now. It's a bugger that the system was screwed up for me and many others by those at the top not understanding how things work but I guess now they know.

At least as things stand I'm not doing the worst economically as there are others in a worse situation than I am so I'm not among the poorest in society with owning their own home or sometimes even a job so should feel lucky I'm doing ok there at least. Just for me need to push on further I think to do better.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 28, 2023, 09:10:38 AM
if you have this kind of sentiment about your own culture
why didn't it make you angry and anti-social instead of just "shy"
with anger, you can figure out ways to put that anger to "work" somewhere
how is shyness gonna ever work for you? it does the opposite, almost self-sabotage

the more resistance I faced in life, the more it instilled in me a strong desire and determination to succeed, but it only discouraged you
you never even left home Trench
to compare, by the time I was 18, I lived on my own outside the USA and was making your income
and I got free Pooty Tang ALL THE TIME back then, I was only using them girls for the free meals and cookies they'd make me
good times
eating cookies baked by a woman, "in the field" oichen kuzna!!
it really didn't take much to make me feel good when I was real young
i'm MUCH more discerning now

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 28, 2023, 04:47:36 PM
if you have this kind of sentiment about your own culture
why didn't it make you angry and anti-social instead of just "shy"
with anger, you can figure out ways to put that anger to "work" somewhere
how is shyness gonna ever work for you? it does the opposite, almost self-sabotage

the more resistance I faced in life, the more it instilled in me a strong desire and determination to succeed, but it only discouraged you
you never even left home Trench
to compare, by the time I was 18, I lived on my own outside the USA and was making your income
and I got free Pooty Tang ALL THE TIME back then, I was only using them girls for the free meals and cookies they'd make me
good times
eating cookies baked by a woman, "in the field" oichen kuzna!!
it really didn't take much to make me feel good when I was real young
i'm MUCH more discerning now

House prices and rent went through the roof the moment I got to leaving home age because EU let a load of Polish, etc in the country. Along with that wages went flat.

Even if I moved out of home there was precious little reason to do so in the UK. The girls here only care if you have something big going for you otherwise they just see you as competition. It's like being kneed in the balls by your own side. Welcome to life in the UK!

Anger won't get you anywhere here apart from unemployed an possibly prison if your anger is bad enough. There's not the scope in the UK like the US, etc. In the UK if you have a job you are doing well, otherwise you need serious money to get on.

For you going out to the FSU, Israel, etc was probably more natural as you had roots out there in terms of family background/history, I don't have any of that. Back in the nineties I rarely had the money to go abroad and had no knowledge of any reason to in terms of work or women. I also had no command of any foreign language to any decent extent, basic/poor German and French, that was it. So I would have been like a fish out of water out there, unable to speak the language in largely non/basic internet age in countries where English was not as prevalent as it is now. So it was a lot harder and more obscure then moreso to someone who hadn't any idea of how things were out in the FSU, etc. If I was at an older age, money behind me, bored and willing to explore for the hell of it maybe, but a young native UK guy my age doesn't want to take an off the hoof journey into god knows where just out of interest if there is anything there with the unlikelihood of discovering anything as you can't understand the lingo, etc and possibly ending up in a bad situation as in a totally alien terrain. Remember in Moscow & St. Pete's at this time there were reports of foreign guys being done in because they inadvertently had the audacity to get into a mafia taxi that they had no clue was a mafia taxi and the mafia not take too kindly to it :-\

So yeah options were generally pretty limited back then, not like how much easier stuff is now with booking flights, hotel rooms, apartments, etc online, & Google translate to get you out of difficulty when needing to communicate with the locals. So much easier these days.

You have to remember to the 90s was a time of mass unemployment in the UK which only got better towards the end of the late 90s. By then people were jolly glad to just have a job but everyone was unsure of how long that would last - fortunately it last a good decade before the credit crunch but even that wasn't as bad as the 90s recession in the UK, much shorter unemployment issues. So most people were mostly concerned with finding employment at home, galavanting out to some foreign country with little money in the bank, little if any command of the language and few skills in high demand to offer just wasn't an idea that any person that was sound of mind in such a situation would contemplate it was just ludicrous and if any did attempt it would be highly unlikely to end well.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 28, 2023, 06:29:45 PM
Trench,
the female WANTS A STRONG MALE AND NOT A WEAKER ONE
what virtues do you "signal" to a woman?

so if wimmin ain't pickin up any kinda signals from ya
why do you blame society for being at fault, and not consider it a  reflection of a quality about you

you think it's actually societies fault, and in particular female society
for COMPLETELY failing to perceive your hidden beauty Trench?

is this the position YOU are taking on this matter?
I have a simpler explanation:

you're poor
and kinda plain lookin....
and you're middle-aged

now next time you ignore an overweight unattractive middle aged woman
you'll see what I'm tellin ya

what's perceived, is what people THINK is REAL
OK...

you need one of two things Master Trench, that you do not posess
either become a successful man with a successful persona
or learn how to act like one

otherwise, just think what'd happen to "your love life" if the internet went down and you couldn't watch porn any more, then WHAT?
it'd FALL OFF due to lack of "maintenence"
oh no, IT'S TRUE!!!
i'm not trying to scare ya or anything like that...
but DON'T GOOGLE it, you don't want that in your search history
just "trust me", OK...





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 29, 2023, 03:38:36 AM
Trench,
the female WANTS A STRONG MALE AND NOT A WEAKER ONE
what virtues do you "signal" to a woman?

so if wimmin ain't pickin up any kinda signals from ya
why do you blame society for being at fault, and not consider it a  reflection of a quality about you

you think it's actually societies fault, and in particular female society
for COMPLETELY failing to perceive your hidden beauty Trench?

is this the position YOU are taking on this matter?
I have a simpler explanation:

you're poor
and kinda plain lookin....
and you're middle-aged


now next time you ignore an overweight unattractive middle aged woman
you'll see what I'm tellin ya

what's perceived, is what people THINK is REAL
OK...


you need one of two things Master Trench, that you do not posess
either become a successful man with a successful persona
or learn how to act like one

otherwise, just think what'd happen to "your love life" if the internet went down and you couldn't watch porn any more, then WHAT?
it'd FALL OFF due to lack of "maintenence"
oh no, IT'S TRUE!!!
i'm not trying to scare ya or anything like that...
but DON'T GOOGLE it, you don't want that in your search history
just "trust me", OK...

Yeah that is all kind of true. I mean none of us get to chose how we look and while photofeeler tells me I'm about everyday average looking I think I'm probably the sort of person that facially doesn't stand out much in terms of features. If you wanted an anonymous looking everyman sort of guy as a spy or secret assassin I would probably fit the bill for not being noticed among a sea of other everyday people looking very similar without facial features that stand out a lot.

So yeah part of my hesitancy for doing the trip abroad thing is being in the right position. At the moment there would be signs that would torpedo the illusion of a successful man. My car is needing replacement soon, it's more old banger supermini than prestige Merc. My job is a good easy but low money earner but doesn't scream 'successful man' many women in fact might diss it. And my house is not yet complete, meaning I'm looking more like a down and out while I'm covered in crap from doing the work in a place while getting to looking good still has mess around. However the old granny who lives down the street passed by yesterday and commented that it was now looking good outside :D

So the look at the moment is probably totally the opposite of a look of a successful man. Once the house is done the costs of renovation go and I can spend out on a better car. The job can go in due course but I will need it for the time being, potentially I can give it a slightly different image I will talk more on that later.

All I have so far is a wardrobe with some nice Armani pieces in that while all new were cheap buys compared to some of the pricey stuff they do. That Armani stuff I only wear to special occasions so as not to wear it out.

Funny thing is yo mama's village is located in one of the most pricey areas of the UK outside of central London. She doesn't have the most expensive house in the area or the least, about Inbetween. Currently my guess is that it's worth about £600k though it means more to me as a family home. That's her house though and a lot of women won't see where I live or know of it. So unless I chose to tell them the situation doesn't tend to weigh in.

So yeah just kind of need to change things up a bit as like you point out I'm kind of missing on big positives that would help me out.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 29, 2023, 10:29:56 AM
Ukrainian flag now raised on the left bank of the Dnipro river in Kherson region. ;D


Near Antonivka road bridge.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 29, 2023, 02:48:32 PM
The orcs are now retreating amid a breakthrough in their defence line.It is about the offensive of the AFU in the Zaporizhzhia direction.


The head of the joint press centre of the Defence Forces of Southern Ukraine stated it.


"The enemy has no chance to consolidate the broken defence " she said.


Yeah but what about the nukes scream Krim and Trench.....and the propagandists on Russian tv,


Meanwhile those same propagandists are claiming it was the Brits who shot down Prigozhin's plane.


"I have no doubt it was the British who did it .They're cynical and brazen ".


Nice to know the Ruskies are terrified of us Brits. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on August 29, 2023, 03:54:59 PM
wellllll...
weren't you the people who said "NEE!!"
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 30, 2023, 01:57:16 AM
Sounds like Russia took a battering last night.


A drone attack at the Pskov airport has left 4 IL-76 and a TU-22 aircraft damaged,with a fueling complex also destroyed.


Another drone hit the "Kremny EL" factory in Bryansk .This is/was one of the largest Russian microelectronics manufacturers.


The Cherekhinsky military base was also hit.


UAV strikes were carried out in Moscow,Oryol,Bryansk ( three times),Ryazan,Kaluga and Pskov regions.


In addition Sevastopol and it's bay were attacked by naval drones.


All very alarming for the orcs,and i suspect the west /NATO is watching with keen interest on how ineffective the orcs AD is proving to be.


The Commanders of our Trident Submarines,each carrying up to 40 nuclear warheads, will be smirking as we speak. >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 30, 2023, 03:00:43 AM
Meanwhile in Ukraine.


Two strong explosions are reported in Dzhankoy,Crimea ..there is a military airfield here.


The headquarters of political party "United Russia" was blown up in occupied Nova Kakhovka.



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 30, 2023, 03:55:55 AM
Russia attempted to retaliate to their horrendous night by firing yet more missiles and drones at Ukraine.


All cruise missiles ( 28/28) and 15/16 Shaheed drones were shot down,the Ukrainian Air Force reports.


The orc military in retreat ..again...in Ukraine.Russia being blitzed,Russians being mobilized to ward of perceived ground attacks from,living in their heads, Brit Special Forces,Russian missiles and drones being shot down with contempt by Ukrainian AD's ...can it get any worse for Putler and his regime ? >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 01, 2023, 09:29:58 AM
From a televised interview with the head of GUR Budanov.


"There will be no nuclear strike,even when we enter Crimea ".


" Nuclear bombs for SU-27M  planes were brought to Belarus " .


"Russia is considering the option of announcing mobilization this fall to conscript about 450,000 people.This should not be feared,as Russia conscripts about 20,000 people every month ".


"China supplies Russia with drones and chips,but these are dual-use goods.They won't dare to supply weapons ".


"Ukraine is obliged to intervene in all political processes in Russia.Our task is to strengthen  the influence of GUR on everything that happens in the decision-making rooms." .




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 01, 2023, 01:13:13 PM
Looks like Trench was totally wrong,as he often is, in his story of Ukraine's failed summer counter-offensive,no doubt from dubious sources.


"Over the past 72 hours we've seen significant progress of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the southern frontline .They've had some success against the Russian second line of defence " said US National Security Council communications coordinator John Kirby.


Also it was reported by Ukrainian Deputy Minister of Defence Hanna Malyar that during the summer period ,it was possible to free 248.8 Square km of Ukrainian land.


The Armed Forces of Ukraine destroyed 55,000 invaders and 655 tanks over the summer-mass media.


The destruction of Russia's military continues apace, >:D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 03, 2023, 02:29:27 AM
Is Krim ok? Been a few days since he's posted on here, unusual for him. Hope all's ok.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 04, 2023, 04:37:03 PM
The British Challenger 2 tank impressing in Ukraine:

http://www.forces.net/ukraine/sniper-rifle-among-tanks-ukrainian-soldier-praises-uks-challenger-2

They're after more of course as they only have 14 so few in number. We've got about a couple of hundred though the UK gov seems to want to hold onto them. I can understand not wanting to give away too many but they're just sat there anyway and we're getting the new Challenger 3 tanks though not as many as the Challenger 2 tanks as I understand it.

It looks like Ukraine will also start taking delivery of some Abrams tanks this month.

The window for Ukraine to push in with a big Counter-offensive is getting narrower. There still is time and if it sounds out that the preparation work has been done to properly get at the Russians then it could work. I am dubious at the moment though. Seems progress is talked about but I'm not so sure if it's all that significant.

A big Counter-offensive soon could make the Russians break and run and if that happens a lot of ground could be taken quickly. If Ukraine can't break through this Autumn then Russia will doubtless reinforce it's lines again with mines & fortifications for next year. That could be dangerous for Ukraine if matters start to move against it.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 05, 2023, 03:20:47 AM
Russia's lost one of its Tos thermobaric launchers:

http://www.eurasiantimes.com/russias-fully-loaded-tos-1a-flamethrower-gutted-by-ukraines-450-first-person-view-drone/

Always wondered if the operators of these Tos weapons would be called Tossers :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 06, 2023, 01:37:25 AM
Apparently Ukraine has lost its first Challenger tank, so down to 13 now:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/05/ukraine-has-lost-its-first-challenger-2-tank/

Shows that Russia are putting up a fair bit of a fight this year. Still Ukraine's military trudging on at a slow pace, too slow really so unless a breakthrough comes soon it doesn't look like they are going to cut off the land corridor this year.

If I had been commanding either side I would have gained them a victory by now ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 08, 2023, 12:37:01 AM
An interesting article:

Via Euronews: Up to €3,400 per month: Meet the Spanish company recruiting fighters for Ukraine
http://www.euronews.com/2023/09/08/up-to-3400-per-month-meet-the-spanish-company-recruiting-fighters-for-ukraine

Apparently US Intelligence estimates Ukraine's forces dead & wounded at around 190,000. They may just be intelligent enough to be about right. I've read elsewhere that Ukraine has had many casualties in its Counter-offensive particularly around Bakhmut, first defending against attack then trying to retake it, not that there is anything much there to retake.

So an average of about 100,000 troop losses per year roughly. Wounded as in too wounded to return to the front in most cases.

Personally I don't regard the money Ukraine pays as good money for risking your life, it's probably taxed as well, so I probably earn as much pro rata for working my present job. I know some aren't in it for the money so much but it's not great money should things go south. If a loss of limb etc occurs my guess is that person is then cast adrift and pretty much in their own.

The true troop loss numbers are kept quiet by the Ukrainian government both to avoid losing support abroad and also to avoid putting the shits up those being called up and risk them doing a runner. I can see why they do it but if I was a Ukrainian guy I wouldn't blame them for thinking the worst and doing a runner upon call up.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 08, 2023, 08:42:58 AM
From another article that I saw apparently a lot of the foreigner fighters in the International Legion that were fighting for Ukraine had returned home. Initially there were about 20,000 foreigners that had traveled to Ukraine to fight, sone of those were oddballs who had never had any military experience, fought anywhere, etc and mostly weren't of much value to Ukraine. A large number had some military experience to plentiful experience, while some were just TA weekend soldier type guys who had only ever done a bit of training. Even some old dudes turned up at the Ukrainian Embassy in London willing to fight but passed their best though probably with little to lose.

So apparently now the Legion is down to around 2,000 men mostly tough heavily experience guys with many military skills. So very useful to Ukraine but low in numbers being the main problem. A lot of soldiers have returned home after spending a few months out there, some plan on returning (if there's a victory parade ;D ) others are not. A few of the inexperienced guys that went there apparently buggered off after hearing a few artillery shells land around them lol.

At its worst some ex Legionnaires complain off being ill equipped, badly treated - abuse, long hours without rest/washing and being treated as cannon fodder some of being given missions that were suicidal. So on that front perhaps not a lot different to the Russians.

So now it looks like Ukraine is man hungry once again and not just the women. A lot of the euphoria has gone out of the initial stages of the war and it's now less of a buzz about it in the west so it's unlikely Ukraine will get the numbers of foreign fighters back it once had but it seems to be looking to get some more foreign fighters but of better quality.

The plus side for Ukraine is that Wagner is currently not what it was if it will ever be again so for the time being they aren't up against Wagner mercenaries at least so it's pretty much even stevens on that front. The other issue Ukraine faces is how many men are left in its society that will willingly go and fight for Ukraine. At the start when euphoria is high and particularly when Ukraine was doing well against Russia it would have been pretty easy to get men up. Increasingly as Ukraine get bogged down along with Russia in a war that is looking that it is stagnanting at a stalemate with much euphoria gone far fewer Ukrainian men may be willing to step forward. A meat grinder situation on both sides where neither side gains much is going to be a turn off to men on both sides. While Ukraine conscripts in reality it likely relies on those men turning up. Ukraine is a large country in which to hide or cross over the lengthy land border with decent odds of getting out. Even if they are picked up there is little that can be done apart from punishment for those that don't wish to fight and many may prefer punishment to being in the front line. Some of course we already know have paid off officials to avoid conscription or purposely injured themselves to avoid it.

So I think increasingly as time goes on the it could well be a changing picture on both sides but specifically for Ukrainians on how they deal with the war situation they are seemingly stuck in. My guess is that Ukraine will likely find it increasingly difficult to get men willing to be conscripted to the front lines.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on September 08, 2023, 09:13:40 AM
 CNN on Thursday quoted an excerpt from the biography Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson, which described how armed submarine drones were approaching a Russian fleet near the Crimean coast when they “lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly”.

“By not allowing Ukrainian drones to destroy part of the Russian fleet via Starlink interference, @elonmusk allowed this fleet to fire Kalibr missiles at Ukrainian cities. As a result, civilians, and children are being killed,” Podolyak wrote.

“Preliminary analysis suggests that the reach and influence of Kremlin-backed accounts has grown further in the first half of 2023, driven in particular by the dismantling of Twitter’s safety standards.

The EU has also accused Musk’s X of allowing Russian propaganda about Ukraine to spread on its website.

A study released last week by the European Commission, the governing body of the European Union, found that “the reach and influence of Kremlin-backed accounts has grown further in the first half of 2023.”

The study said that the increased reach of Russian propaganda online was “largely driven by Twitter, where engagement grew by 36% after CEO Elon Musk decided to lift mitigation measures on Kremlin-backed accounts”.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/08/elon-musk-committed-evil-starlink-order-ukraine

 Also a related opinion piece:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/08/elon-musk-satellite-war-starlink-system-ukraine
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Chelseaboy on September 09, 2023, 04:19:18 AM
Orc defensive lines are cracking...looks like their whole front line is in trouble. Not surprising with their killed around the 600 a day mark now. >:D






(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5j5Ca0XMAAYDFA?format=webp&name=small)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 09, 2023, 06:19:59 AM
Orc defensive lines are cracking...looks like their whole front line is in trouble. Not surprising with their killed around the 600 a day mark now. >:D






(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5j5Ca0XMAAYDFA?format=webp&name=small)

I don't read that into the report. Ukrainians have been stuck around Robotyne for some time now, similarly with Bakhmut also. Their Counter-offensive has only retaken very small areas and they've been at it for months now.

It's not that I don't support Ukraine, I do but I just think they didn't get the strategy right here this year. They've only got a few weeks left now before winter starts to set in. If they happen to crack the Russian lines they might then make rapid progress but I am doubtful. Most of their time seems to have been dealing with minefields and to some extent fortifications. That means that they couldn't put the pressure on the Russian Army that they needed to. Meanwhile in the north where they could have five that, then swung around behind orc lines they've ignored that to concentrate on the harder way through. This year's fighting is looking like a stalemate to me.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 11, 2023, 09:57:44 PM
rumours of me being cut-off from Russian Nootropics
have been GREATLY exaggerated

I'm retired now, and don't need 'em for work anymore
Russians showed me the kinda advantage THEY give
and I ain't talkin 'bout LAME western versions, like Adderall or Modafinil

I WUZ overseas and got back earlier this evening, and had my first post travel nap
moy gullivar is really confused and unhappy now
Geezers should stick to flying short distances, like Costa Rica
after I get a certain letter from Kazakhstan due REAL SOON NOW
I'll show ya

as far as "other" farmaceuticals are concerned
even after a nuclear apocalypse
I will still have weed dropped off at the compound

the rest of ya'll can chug Hillbilly Beer
that's not for me
you go to Uraguay, if you choose to
and i'll go mining

ain't NOTHIN major gonna happen in Ukraine the rest of this year
cuz the weather's gonna run out

Ukraine is a prey animal that latched on to the lion's leg
and it ain't gonna let go, cuz it knows it'll be eaten the moment it does
but the lion has a big wound that's hemmoraging blood from the prey's struggle

all the mistakes Putinauh makes is due to weakness
he waited until North Stream II was done to steal turf from ukraine
cuz he thought it would give him money and leverage over NATO
instead he handed over the whole damn Russia-Europa gas business to the USA
he shouda pulled off his highway robbery under Trump (the sherriff who can be bought)
instead the one he couldn't bribe (AKA Sherriff Sleepy Joe)
potential for cinematic magic here
GOOD V EVIL
with sleepy Sherriff Joe against Alski Coponensky
Hitler made the same mistake with Russia, and delayed operation Barborosa to take Yugoslavia so his flank wasn't wide open
that delay pushed the schedule to June 22, instead of March 22
that delay cost him seizing Moscow due to weather
Putinuh has the same issue


putin has to "secure his flank" before such moves
that simple mistake, pushed his robbery
past Trump and into Biden

when next spring comes, it'll only be 8 months until he and Trump have their moment in the sun together once more
his CURRENT disinformatze plan, is actually working
support for Ukraine in a recent poll, showed a sharp decine in support
most Americans now believe it's not vital to America's interest to support Ukraine
Trump wins, Ukraine will not be getting a dime from the USA
but you better believe Trump will make out, real good...
meanwhile look at what happened at the recent G20 conference
where BRICS oligarchs who have financial ties to Russia
issued a condemnation, of Ukraine defending it's people and territory

well, now that I'm briefly awake
got other stuff to catch up on

so cash ya'll leter

oops...
almost forgot one thing
Putin is sending a huge amount of Russians to the USA ALREADY!!!
but listen to me...

they're all named Lee Harvey Oswaldski





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 12, 2023, 02:58:05 PM

I WUZ overseas and got back earlier this evening, and had my first post travel nap
moy gullivar is really confused and unhappy now
Geezers should stick to flying short distances, like Costa Rica
after I get a certain letter from Kazakhstan due REAL SOON NOW
I'll show ya



Must have been a real important mission for you to suddenly drop everything and go on radio silence for a fair while Krim. They have no internet out that way? You're our greatest source of everything FSU on here and window into that world, without you on here is like a blind man fumbling around not knowing one part of his body from another.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 12, 2023, 04:05:04 PM
no, was planning this for awhile
while returning to the USA I met a self-professed Russian draft dodger
who I'm pretty sure is a Russian "sleeper"
a flood of Russians coming in this way
some of the "draft dodgers" are actually already in the military
and they're coming here for work related to the GRU
i'm SURE their efforts are benign
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 12, 2023, 07:55:24 PM
the eternal pessimist is the person who KNOWS history
all fascist political movements are based on Völkisch movements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_movement

Germany in the 30s
Russia today
America today
you flatter the master race to make the "race" great once more, something that ONLY THEY can deliver...just "trust me dear masses", they say, while denouncing the non-master races
this is AWAYS how fascism germinates

'tis why every repugnant republican holds an upside down bible
to pander to their base-evangelical christians
things will be declared immoral, based on a 2000 yr old doctrine
which also declares eating pork and lobster to be major sins as well as sexual impropriety, once again based on 2000 yr old standards
not long ago, it was a major impropriety for western women to show their ankles
so maybe ya'll should consider the rejection of the rigidity of religion

consider the way Islam looks at women
do you like it so much?
that ya want wimmin to wear burquas simply becuz to not do so would mean that they'r sinners
in the middle east, people have died recently over women having to wear scarfs
is that what ya want for here?
well, OF COURSE you do - just as long as YOU are not on the list of those naughty folks who want to live freely


but ya ain't gonna be successful demoninzing crab eaters in the 21st century
and ya CAN NOT talk about money, cuz it's ultimately about rich vrs poor
and the rich bankroll those politicians leaning towards fascism
so ya gotta find a group the master race has ALREADY selected as being inferior
and give it a shot of pure adrenalin
and then channel all that energy into your campaign to make "things better" for the master race
of course keeping in mind, 1 out of every 4 german men born in 1920, died in the war
same way over 1000 members of the master race will face prison, carrying out Trump's coup attempt

NEWS FLASH!!
neither Hitler, Trump, or Putin
care about the welfare of the masses, they are narcissists, incapable of empathy
they only care about how to use them

if only the master race had some thought
about how they're being used

in the mid 19th century, "slave states" had 1/4 lower wages compared to nonslave states due to rich people employing slaves in productive activities
nevertheless, poor uneducated southerners joined the confderate army and maybe 5% of male master race members died in the war
while their plantation owning master race sons lived in luxury and exempt from the draft
just like Russian oligarchs
just like Trump, whose family has lived in the USA for over 150 yrs and yet NOT ONE Trump ever served their country
they ONLY serve themselves

this is ALWAYS, ALWAYS how it works
it's NOT just the avarice of one man that enables fascism
it's the ignorance of the master race
and ya'll will pay a gawd awful price for this


the rest of the world has a responsibility to stop Russian Fascism
but Putinuh is ALREADY winning that struggle and if SOMEWAY, SOMEHOW Trump becomes president once more
you can kiss Ukraine's Jhoppa good bye as well as America's
you think Putin is unaware of this?
hahahahahaha




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 13, 2023, 07:14:37 AM
big time in sevastopol

B-237 "Rostov-on-Don" attack submarine is heavily, maybe irreperably damaged
this is one of the submarines Russians  used to launch cruise missiles at Ukraine
other vessels destroyed as well as storage facilities
a few hundred million $USD hit to Russia at a minimum, billion + $USD if the sub is a loss

this all happened about two miles away from my residence in sevastopol
I've lost track of how many window rattling and BREAKING events I've managed to avoid



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 13, 2023, 01:44:35 PM
big time in sevastopol

B-237 "Rostov-on-Don" attack submarine is heavily, maybe irreperably damaged
this is one of the submarines Russians  used to launch cruise missiles at Ukraine
other vessels destroyed as well as storage facilities
a few hundred million $USD hit to Russia at a minimum, billion + $USD if the sub is a loss

this all happened about two miles away from my residence in sevastopol
I've lost track of how many window rattling and BREAKING events I've managed to avoid

A good report on the attack here:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-launches-missile-attack-sevastopol-crimea-russian-installed-governor-2023-09-13/

By the end of this war it looks like Russia's conventional forces will be in such a poor state and so lacking that they won't be up to much more conventional warfare for quite some time, let alone the money to fund it.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 13, 2023, 05:18:21 PM
these ships will not be particapating in the war any longer
most likely will be scrapped

sometimes, I get carried away with my sheetposting here
and forget that I gotta keep a low profile

however, i'm prepared for anything russians can throw at me
the war will be concluded in 2025
after that, no worries

i'm a little plankton
Sharks are already comin home to mother russia
they'll focus on that
I have a state-of-the-art secuity system
you'd set off 5 different alarms applying some of that Novichok-A234 to my door handles
and I have an armed response team available 24/7 that can respond instantly
the assassins will be assassinated

i've been through this before
I am spiritually protected from violence
by my Ukrainian great-grandmother and grandmother
who were practicing Kabbalah sages who knew how to cast spells
but my family isn't protected
i've dodged death so many times, i've lost count
whether their spells work truely or not
I believe that they do
there ain't no atheists in fox holes
i'm only an atheist when i'm not in the fox hole

someday I may show ya'll MY Syncretic Kabbalah skillz
and how it helps me "see" the future

in a couple of months when the weather gets cold
russia will target Ukraine's power and gas grid
if you can't beat 'em in the battlefield
then making poor ukrainians freeze to death
is the next best thing




Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on September 20, 2023, 08:37:15 PM
http://youtu.be/ctrtAwT2sgs

Sources for info in video listed in notes under the video on youtube.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 23, 2023, 08:35:23 PM
Putin’s Kleptocracy

The real war, is the war between kleptocrats and the people
both Russian and Ukrainian and American

the people MUST seize power for themselves and get rid of all the politicians and oligarchs
just like Marxism FREAKIN' SAID!!!!

turn all the unions into a politcal party NOW!!!


chronology of the rise of hooligan kleptocracy class in Russia and it's utter disregard for EVERYONE but themselves

and now this system has succeeded to the point where it's about to fail in one of several possible scenarios
that are gonna happen within the next two years

place your bets here
you can put your money on Ukraine if you want to
but I really wouldn't ever bet against Putin, unless there was a good point spread...

if Ukraine succeeds in making a land assault on Crimea next year, 100% Putin will declare the use of tactical nukes to maintain the "territorial integrity"  of the Russian Federation
again small neutron bombs that do very little physical damage, but kills humans (even inside tanks) 2km away

and it's an overnight blitzkrieg of dozens and dozens
that completely shreds Ukraine's military
who is also now deaf and blind and then the russians pounce on them with everything they have
including angry babooshkas denied their son's life insurance money armed with sharp hammers and sycles for testicle cutting


The origin and chronology of the kleptocracy
todays main players all go back to the 90s - including Putin, these are forming into multi-generational dynasties
Putin's daughter has the MOST important position in Russia today
She is in charge of the import substitution office
she's in charge of BILLIONS!!!!

not a bad lookin little Russian blond, except for one very bad thing!!
she looks EXACTLY like a young Putin in Drag and with lonh hair
I cannot under any circumstance imagine having sex with her,
cuz when I look at her, I see Putin, and that's just too weird, and my willy would want outta there PRONTO!!!


"1990-2004: Khronologiya zakhvatov i vzryvov v Rossii [Chronology of Hostage-Takings and
Explosions in Russia]." BBC Russian Service. September 2, 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_3621000/3621314.stm#6 (accessed
August 11, 2012).
"2013 List of Richest Billionaires in Russia." Forbes.ru. June 21, 2013.
http://www.forbes.ru/rating/200-bogateishih-biznesmenov-rossii2013/2013?full=1&table=1 (accessed June 21, 2013).
"A Profile of Vladimir Putin." Gazeta.ru, February 28, 2012.
http://www.gazeta.ru/2001/02/28/AProfileofVl.shtml (accessed March 15, 2012).
"A student tells Bastrykin "you're a criminal!"." YouTube. n.d.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHQHJZvHt3M (accessed April 5, 2014).
"After Words with Pete Earley and Sergei Tretyakov." C-Span. January 28, 2008. http://www.cspanvideo.org/program/Tret (accessed May 8, 2012).
"Analysis of SPAG." Wallstreet-online. December 13, 2000. http://www.wallstreetonline.de/diskussion/315662-1-10/analyse-spag-st-petersburg-immobilien-ag (accessed
April 20, 2012).
"Andrei Molchanov." Forbes. n.d. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/10/billionaires08_AndreiMolchanov_5ZJC.html (accessed July 9, 2012).
"Andrey Akimov." Gazprom. n.d.
http://www.gazprom.com/about/management/directors/akimov/ (accessed April 28,
2013).
"As Moscow Puts President Rakhimov on Hold." RFE/RL Russia Report. April 4, 2001.
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1344487.html (accessed February 17, 2012).
"Bank Rossiya discloses Timchenko stake." Interfax. March 16, 2010.
http://www.silobreaker.com/bank-rossiya-discloses-timchenko-stake5_2263339487188746240 (accessed May 21, 2012).
"Bank 'Sankt-Peterburg' okazalsya v tsentre vnimaniya [The Bank of St. Petersburg in the
spotlight]." Delovoy Peterburg. October 7, 2003.
http://www.dp.ru/a/2003/10/07/Bank_Sankt-Peterburg_ok/ (accessed May 23, 2013).
"Bearer shares." Tax Haven Guide. October 13, 2013. http://www.taxhavensguide.com/bearershares.php (accessed October 13, 2013).
"Borodin vs. Ashcroft." Leagle. March 21, 2001.
http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=7&xmldoc=2001261136FSupp2d125_1250
.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006&SizeDisp=7 (accessed February 15, 2012).
"BStU MfS-BV-Ddn-AKG-10852-Seite-0002-Bild-0001." n.d.
"Businessmen "Friends of Putin" Brought under Criminal Investigation." Oglaskaspb.com. July
10, 2012. http://oglaskaspb.com/eng/bank/a59/ (accessed June 9, 2013).
Dawisha. Putin’s Kleptocracy. Complete Bibliography
2
"Capital Flight from Russia Reaches $40 Billion in January—Minister." RIA-Novosti. February
26, 2009. http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090226/120317628.html. (accessed September 8,
2012).
"Chancery." Netherlands Consulate-General in St. Petersburg. n.d.
http://stpetersburg.nlconsulate.org/organization/chancery (accessed June 8, 2012).
"Chechen Deputy Premier's Death in Prison Confirmed." RFE/RL Newsline. August 23, 2002.
http://www.hri.org/news/balkans/rferl/2002/02-08-23.rferl.html#14 (accessed June 3,
2013).
"Chechen Field Commander Says he Gave Putin Advance Warning of Invasion of Dagestan."
RFE/RL Newsline. November 29, 2001. http://www.hri.org/news/balkans/rferl/2001/01-
11-29.rferl.html#28 (accessed June 8, 2013).
"Chubays Says Putin, Big Businessmen Must Sit." Interfax. July 14, 2011.
http://toolkit.dialog.com/intranet/cgi/present?STYLE=739318018&PRESENT=DB=985,
AN=119300730,FM=9,SEARCH=MD.GenericSearch (accessed February 4, 2012).
"Commercial Bank 'St. Petersburg Bank of Reconstruction and Development' (OAO)." Bank of
Russia. n.d. http://bankcenter.ru/SPBRR/ (accessed July 23, 2012).
"Companies with Gazprom Participation and Other Affiliated Entities." Gazprom. 2014.
http://www.gazprom.com/about/subsidiaries/list-items/ (accessed May 28, 2014).
"Company News." Kommersant. November 21, 1992. http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/30636
(accessed May 23, 2013).
"Compensation and Liability Insurance of Members of the Board of Directors, Members of the
Management Committee and Chairman of the Management Committee of OAO
Gazprom." Gazprom.com. 2012. http://www.gazprom.com/f/posts/94/225493/directorsmanagement-remuneration-insurance-2012-en.pdf (accessed May 23, 2014).
"Daily Briefing of the European Union's Project for Capacity Development in Election
Monitoring, November 25, 1999." In Russian Federation. Elections to the State Duma
(19 December 1999). Final Report, by ODIHR OSCE. Warsaw: ODIHR, 2000.
"Deputy's Death." St. Petersburg Press. 1995. http://www.friendspartners.org/oldfriends/spbweb/sppress/137/what.html (accessed April 27, 2012).
"Dmitriy Kozak." Russian Television. n.d. http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/politicsand-society/dmitry-kozak/ (accessed June 15, 2012).
"Dossier on Putin in St. Petersburg." Ruspress. January 15, 2010.
http://www.rospres.com/hearsay/5833/ (accessed June 5, 2013).
"Dozens dead in Moscow Blast." BBC. September 13, 1999.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/445529.stm (accessed May 9, 2012).
"Eshchyo odna slyzhba okhrany? [Another Security Service?]." Argumenty Nedeli. August 15,
2013. http://argumenti.ru/politics/n401/275839 (accessed August 25, 2013).
"Gazprom History, 2001." Gazprom. n.d. http://www.gazprom.ru/about/history/chronicle/2001/
(accessed May 8, 2011).
"Gazprom Management Board." Gazprom.com. 2014.
http://www.gazprom.com/about/management/board/ (accessed May 29, 2014).
"Gazprom Takes Control of NTV." Kagan World Media. January 26, 2001.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060328205115/http://www.kagan.com/archive/kagan/2001/
01/26/gazprom.shtml (accessed February 23, 2012).
"Geksogenovyy sled--4 [Hexogen track--4]." Novaya gazeta. March 3, 2003.
http://2003.novayagazeta.ru/nomer/2003/16n/n16n-s17.shtml (accessed August 7, 2013).
Dawisha. Putin’s Kleptocracy. Complete Bibliography
3
"Glazkov, Vadim Petrovich." Personalities of St. Petersburg. n.d.
http://www.ceo.spb.ru/eng/business/glazkov.v.p/index.shtml (accessed May 16, 2014).
"Golubev, Valeriy." Gazprom. n.d. http://ir.gazprom-neft.com/corporate-governance/board-ofdirectors/valery-golubev/ (accessed April 29, 2012).
"Grease my Palm." Economist. November 27, 2008. http://www.economist.com/node/12628030
(accessed July 7, 2012).
"Gusinskiy vs. Russia." European Court of Human Rights. May 19, 2004.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2023, 03:21:22 AM
I've thought in the past that in the UK it would be better for the Trade Unions to have their own Trade Union Party as a political party run directly by them. Since near the beginning of the twentieth century they have had a hand in the Labour Party. Increasingly though the Labour Party is anything but a party for the working man or the trade union(ist) although many working class people still vote for it, it's policies seem anything but helpful to them. Nowadays it tends to be full of career politicians with their own agendas that aren't really in alignment with the working man.

The first past the post electoral system tends to make it though that you have to form the biggest voting bloc backed up with the biggest amount of finance to stand a chance of winning enough MP's to get into power. That's a real uphill struggle, a cliff face in fact and the smaller parties don't get a look in.

I think you're a very intelligent guy Krim, you have to have been like you say to get to where you've got as a millionaire etc. Many would take offence when someone points out that what they want and what will happen doesn't line up together but you didn't. When I pointed out that Trump being elected may help avoid many more Ukrainians dying by him taking away military support you saw it as it is. I don't expect you'll be going out and buying a 'Trump in 24' banner anytime soon though lol ;D

For what it's wyI actually like Joe Biden, he's got an interesting melodramatic way of expressing stuff when he does his speeches. I'm not sure he's ready to do much with Britain though. I think Trump may potentially be ready to do deals more with Britain now we are post Brexit. Biden so far hasn't done much at all even though the Northern Ireland issues seems to have been largely solved now. I think his Irish roots and view if Brexit probably stopped a lot of that.

So if Trump wins and he pulls military support then it leaves just the UK and the EU largely supporting Ukraine. Assuming either or both are still willing to do so which I think they will it may not mean a complete collapse of Ukraine as a result of US support being pulled. Considering at the same time Russia will as you've pointed out be running down low on armaments and struggling to come up with more. Sure they have Iran, North Korea and possibly China to supply them, but at a cost and their economy is likely to be doing pretty badly by then with a lot of debts mounting.

So a reduced flow of armaments to Ukraine at that time may help avoid Russia from going for the Neutron bomb option so quickly. It could prolong the stalemate in Ukraine which I think most western powers actually want to avoid Putler pressing one of the red buttons. They've no doubt worked out too that Ukraine pushing in too far will push Putler into a corner and that's not a good thing for Ukraine. My guess is that the west's aim is three fold, one to degrade Russia's military capacity so they aren't capable of waging further conventional war easily - making them militarily weak, two to screw up the Russian economy so they are too weak economically to focus on war. Thirdly, to get to a point in Ukraine where the attrition gets so much on Russia's side that they'll come to a situation of at least a status quo in Ukraine. Difficult to say exactly until there but possibly the conflict simmering out into a situation like the Donbass separatist conflict, simmering on but much going nowhere.

My guess is that will allow our beloved Putler to see out his days in power and when he is gone then whoever takes over will hopefully be better placed to get to a peace deal, i.e withdrawal.

No certainties, anything could happen, we'll just have to see how it goes.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on September 24, 2023, 02:32:48 PM
The UK and EU have supplied the bulk of military assistance to Ukraine to date. But the US strong
armed them to do so.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2023, 04:20:25 PM
The UK and EU have supplied the bulk of military assistance to Ukraine to date. But the US strong
armed them to do so.


Lol, I hardly think so. It was Boris Johnson as PM who first stepped forward to be the first to offer and give Ukraine military assistance in the firm of sending them thousands of NLAW hand held anti tank missiles. That proved to be crucial in holding back and defeating the Russians in the early stages if their invasion. Those were given before Russia even invaded long before the US sent Ukraine it's Javelin equivalent.

Both the UK and the EU are only giving a small fraction of their armaments. We gave Ukraine the grand total of 14 old  Challenger tanks, good tanks, a precise aim at long range as the Ukrainians have found out but currently an old model compared to the Challenger 3 tanks we are now getting. We have more than 200 Challenger tanks sitting around unlikely to be ever all be needed. Yet here we are the big conflict of our time and what do we do? We send them a measly 14 tanks for the so called big counter offensive. We could have easily sent them 100 tanks or more considering most will just likely end up eventually being scrapped anyway. There could have been a battlefront on the Ukrainian side full of Challenger tanks pounding the enemy and sending them running for the hills. An easy choice for us to make really, how much worth do we put in defeating Russia with a crushing Ukrainian counter offensive? It shows in the pitifully few tanks we sent them.

Air support, again we could have sent Ukraine many of our jet fighters to Ukraine. Ukraine complained bitterly that their Counter-offensive was blunted by not having enough air cover to avoid being pounded by the Russians. Along with the minefields and fortifications it made advancing painfully slow. Ukraine was given HIMARS and Storm Shadow missiles which had a range outside of Ukraine so why no fighter jets?

No good reason for not sending Ukraine the above other than what should be obvious. The UK, EU and US knew what they were sending would not be enough. They have a lot of military bids with many years if expertise. The judgement was no doubt made not to oversupply Ukraine with armaments that would take them to an easy victory against Russia. Military analysis of Russia and it's position would have been done first noting it's minefields, etc. They would have known it was going to be a hard task against Russia, that Russia would have prepared well. They knew that Russia 's weakness was that it was down to antiquated armaments, old tanks, etc that just weren't up to modern armaments, even western end of the cold war armaments. Yet the west didn't want to kick down the door by supplying Ukraine with armaments to knock the crap out of Russia's aging army, they could have easily have done so. No they quibbled over who might send what tanks for ages, yes Ukraine got some tanks in the end, mostly Leopard 2 tanks but it was too little to make a big enough difference.

The decision was of course made to avoid giving Ukraine so much that they would win against Russia, that would be a bad move to make, but they couldn't tell Ukraine that especially the Ukrainian men on the ground fighting. No they were to be used as cannon fodder in all of this their fate was sealed. The Ukrainian government might have suspected that was the game at hand but are powerless to do anything they are now at the whim of western governments and they dare not let their people know the situation either.

Western governments know as Krim pointed out that if Ukraine defeats the Russian Army in field and totally smash then then it's going to force Putler's hand by backing him I to a corner. That's not a good place for Ukraine or the west. End of the day the UK alone probably has enough conventional armaments to win against Russia's antiquated army, the UK and the EU combined could get together and send a huge amount of armaments to Ukraine and enough financial support to double or trebble their army. With the US onboard as well it could be easily done. The US has masses of all sorts of stockpiles of armaments that are just sitting around that it will never use and just scrap. Yet it's not worth their while to send to Ukraine who they apparently support lol. Ukraine could be so full of armaments from the US, UK & EU that it would heavily outweigh Russia both in quantity and quality of its armaments. It would be no fuss for the west to do that, they don't really need those weapons, they have nukes, etc and can easily resupply themselves. The west are all at peace so they don't need to hang onto their armaments so desperately. They do so as they fear the consequences if the Russian Army takes is mauled as a result. Better to carefully balance out Ukraine with a small token if armaments and let Russia drag itself down holding off against it. They know Russia can only go so long like that and that it's the best course of action that they can play. All the positioning on sending tanks and graciously giving a few here and there is just for show. No one is going to tell the Ukrainian troops on the ground they are being used and they're is little chance of pulling if a military success, of course not they would bugger off if they realised a game was being played with their lives.

I think as Krim states that another year or so and the Russians will be running on empty. That is when we're likely see something happen. Best case scenario Ukraine gets relieved of the conflict and the Russians go home. No guarantees though, just a case of seeing how it unfolds.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on September 24, 2023, 04:41:07 PM
Either that or Ukrainian troops all get eviscerated by lots of mini/micro neutron bombs. Once a few few have fallen on Ukrainian troops the rest will see that there is no point left other than a terribly painful and horrific death and they fled and run. That of course we are hoping won't happen as I would prefer that Ukraine pull through this but no certainties here.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 25, 2023, 07:43:24 AM
Putin is clearly a man with a guilty conscious (like me)
he fears the karma of all the slaughter he's done, ironic, is it not, that he's mianly killed Russians
and so that's who he fears the most
his own

once upon a time, it would have been SO EASY to off Putin
Even I had a single opportunity
but I also had my family with me
I am just a poor tourista"
and not someone who's gonna take a 700 meter shot from the roof of a building on Nadaghda Ostrovskoi to The Chersonese Bell Monument
with the wind from the south west at about 4 knots

but not now
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-former-guard-at-one-of-putin-s-luxury-palaces-said-it-s-like-a-toxic-little-town-where-everyone-is-snitching-on-each-other/ar-AA1he68h?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=bb45b309707241099a71be6249119e0a&ei=63#image=1

The Putin Protection Industrial Complex
designed by the firm of: Polonium and Novichok UnLimited partnered with Plutonium Brat Moscva

giant fires will light up the night sky
bonfire of a civilization will allow someone like me to "read the ashes"

it all started with a ton of RDX in ryazan
then polonium in the doma of an FSB COL! who said "PUTIN DID IT"

and it'll END with neutron bombs
or Donald Trump being President
and he spends 4 years trying to destroy the US government AND NATO

Putin will have to use completely new people, get ridda of Deripaska for example
unfortunately, he ALREADY put in prison or fired "his best minds" in the FSB
who can he trust to run all "the focus groups"
which are teams of "experts" who follow the outcome of a particular thread
like "The Percentage of American Voters Who Support Providing Aid To Ukraine"

and then coordinate dozens of threads simultaneously
into an "executive summary" that's read by Putin

these analysts are mostly Moscow State University people
who hate non-members of their tribe
in their ranks
lotta back stabbin goin on

this is where you can learn a lot, by letting a professional "thief-in-law" someone who has done "hard time" in a Russian prison (preferably a family member)
tell ya what they learned about survival in a Russian prison

if you understand the stories they tell ya
then ya know how to beat the Russians at their own game

you give carrots to the lesser in rank
and you "setup" the biggest most dominant one to fail in front of his superior
and then you step in and make your move against him with your "friends" with even more carrots

BOOM! Power Shift that took 2 minutes

leverage is the art of using the minimim force over a long distance or long time
to move an impossibly heavy object a short distance for a short time

and sometimes a simple lever is all ya need to start a landslide
this is how Russians fight each other...
in a subtle underhanded way
death by a pin prick and not a hammer blow
the ju-jitsu - use the enemy's own weakness against him and use the minimum amount of force

This is what Putin was doing in Ukraine, up until 2014
and it was about 90% of the way working
when "suddenly" Maidan happened

and that changed "everything"
Russia AND PARTICULARLY PUTIN were suffering an existential "crisis"
what happens when the eagle of Maidan flies to Moscow and lands?

so fake electors took over the Crimean Parliment by a shadowy mafiya paramilitary group armed by the FSB
who also happened to be the biggest Private Real Estate Developer in Crimea
and later Mayor of Crimea

with only a handful of shots fired!

soon Russians were instigating attacks on the Ukrainian government, seizing armories, etc in Donetsk and then in Odesa

any of this ring a bell

Putin is safer NOW then he ever WAS!
his war time powers make it illegal to protest him
each major city has a reserve force to violently and immediately suppress any protest

Russia is a hostage nation
the gov controls almost EVERYTHING
70% of the people directly work for the gov in some way
average person has NO CIVIL RIGHTS
connected people, will always phuque you over in a Russian court, cuz they already PAID the judge
so kiss your property, money, etc good by!!
Hey! Hey! Goodby!

that's why the only way to exist in Russia, is NOT to exist in Russia
i.e. become a person with no fixed address
and no traceable assets other than a small bank account

whoever pays Putin the most, gives him the biggest cut, WINS
and the loser runs to exile or falls out a window

Putin is squeezing more and more, from the top as well as the bottom
the war will cost a lot...

a trillion USD a few months from now
hundreds of thousands killed and maimed
200 billion USD of equipment to be replaced
loss of the european gas market
massive economic contraction - due to lack of foreign investment
break down in industrial equipment
don't fly in Russia NOW
there's almost a DAILY plane malfunction with near crash happening
crashes aren't even announced


20% decline in Russian GDP since Crimean invasion due to increasing sanctions
and here was Russia with Exxon/Mobile and Rex Tillerson
shaking hands over all that Russian arctic oil
that was the biggest business deal $500 billion, in the history of the world

and then it all came crashing down
and the wall
came tumbling...
tumbling, down...

thanks to Trump, Manafort, Flynn and Roger Stone
and Charles McGonigal, the lead investigator for the FBI's Cyber Intelligence Unit
was being paid by the people he was supposed to be investigating
and he is the one, who forced the FBI to go public about hillary's emails, a week before the election
get it, dewd was bein paid by Russians
http://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-special-agent-charge-new-york-fbi-counterintelligence-division-charged-violating

hillarys emails were hacked by Russians
ya still don't get it?

that plus the Internet Research Agency was all Putin needed to get Trump elected







 
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 26, 2023, 06:33:21 PM
Putin's whole future timeline with Trump, just took a MAJOR hit, due to the recent announcement banning the Trump Org from doing business OF ANY KIND in NY State
on top of previously banning the Trump family from operating ANY kind of charity, and that they literally stole money from kids with cancer

and Trump is facing a 250 million USD$ fine...
oh, and 91 felony indictments!!!!
but other than that, how was the play Mrs Lincoln!!!

Trump's latest case is due to the company being a complete fraud "from beginning to end"
and this is just a single drop in the bucket of trouble that's coming Trump's way
and by extension the Republican Party

step right up ladys and gentle-man
and see the age-old struggle between GOOD and EVIL
do you still have faith in such polarities
or is your FAITH more "nuanced"
of id vrs ego vrs super ego
stochastic and individual
that leads to a black and white outcome
from the gray shadows that play across it

but sniff the air
it's ELECTRIC!
you can already sense the gathering storm

what lies on the other side of those dark clouds?
in a few short years we will all know
BUT...
I'll know before ya'll will

the sequence
A plague
A war
A kingdom divided

handwriting is on the wall

Novichok and Neutron Bombs
BZ gas in the St Petes Theater
armed fake electors take over the government run by a real estate tycoon

in the near future, instead of hundreds of individual drone operators separately piloting single drones
there will be an AI that powers ALL OF THEM, from 1 to thousands all at the same time, everywhere at once
shipping containers of drones delivered and launched a few days later
very high kill ratios
and they're flying in the THOUSANDS
and new ones come, day after day, after day
fresh off robotic drone assembly lines running 24/7

the AI lives in a HUGE GLASS CUBE in a place called Odenton, Maryland
about 2 miles south of there, on the other side of the freeway
is where Russians have special Radio Transmitters
that transmit through large copper rods into the earth
that are hidden in the trees and bushes
next to the Patuxant River

Postscript

Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752

Mossad was SUPER PISSED!!!  They just found out that some enterprising Ukrainian Biznessman sold Iran not only a small number of long range nuclear cruise missiles
but also the complete blueprints for mfg and even blueprints for the mfg facility!!!
EVERYTHING they needed to make a nuclear delivery system capable of hitting Israel from Iran, at a time Palestinians were already aiming rocksts at Israeli civilians

I was pretty confident Iron Dome would handle them, but Mossad was REALLY, REALLY PISSED
and wanted the whole thing stopped immediately
a round-about parlez with USA on this subject didn't go anywhere...

then "the network" picked up the fact that all the Ukrainian principles were flying to Tehran for a top level business meeting
and Mossad saw that as an opportunity
and they "wacked" those Ukrainian MFers
by using a Tor "spoofer"
i.e. literally took over the signal processing of the Tor-1 missile launcher
and caused it to shoot Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 on its return flight
and that put an end to any further "collaboration" between Iran and Ukraine

this is the power of "Software Defined Radio"
and BABY
you ain't seen nothing YET
2-3 more years from now, the Electronic Warfare Capabilities of cutting edge hardware/software
vrs old Soviet Kakashka

will be like a wooden club vrs an AK-47

the USA is learnin a lot about the future in this war
it may be the first hybrid war of it's kind
but it sure won't be the last

like Russia, a lot of our military is based around fighting WWII
which ain't gonna happen that way again

we are going to be making RADICAL changes to how we fight wars, by the end of this century
and Ukraine is gonna be the first step....

will the use of tactical nuclear weapons or Chemical Weapons
be the next step

both of these offer a HUGE cost/benefit gain, compared to the use of conventional military forces
chemical weapons can only be used in Ukraine from early May, to end of Sept

Russia seems to be prepping some kind of nuke related event
possibly a public test

before a Russian nuclear attack
they will focus all their offensive capability against Ukrainin airdefenses
including using their own aircraft as decoys and also to engage radar ground target

once Ukraine's air defenses are degraded
they will hit Ukraine's military with 3 waves of 30 warheads of 2 KT neutron bombs that weigh about 100 pounds apiece

that take out all major permanent central bases and primary logistics depos

i.e. takes out the rear

you then have your forces retreat 5 km away from the enemy
Ukraine can't pursue, cuz there's 2 mines per sw meter in front of them
THEY'RE STUCK

so after your troops are 5 km away, you nuke the Ukrainian front-line with another 30 nukes
you wait 48 hours then you attack with everything you have to outflank them and then hit their rear, which THEY already de-mined!!!

weather permitting
you call chemical troops with TOS-! multi-barreled launchers
and toss Novichok and thermo baric bombs
who've been picked up with infra-red FLIR drones looking for 'heat signatures' on the ground
and then call out the GPS coordinates
of the soldiers who are about to die
 

you give every single Russian soldat
"V"mpyl

V is katamine with a strong steroid
that makes you totally wired for about 8 hours
you get so into it, you will kill cats and birds as well as pimply faced teenagers
because every time you do you and your friends all laugh
and you're all keepin score of who killed how many of what
ak-74s are one sweet weapon
and rpk-74 even better
you can carry huge amounts of ammo
gun never jams, EVER (Tula Quality - Chrome lined)
5.45x39 I use really HOT russian ammo with steel core

the optiks you can get now for an AK-74
are MUCH better than the old old scoped Mosin you see in Soviet films

and then of couse, there's NIGHT VISION
and the latest which is full-color night vision
with high quality optical magnification
that also switches to a FLIR mode
and you look for "heat signatures"
while you hide beneath a camoflaged thermal blanket


Note To Russians!

Don't eat your own "dog Food"
i.e. the whole Russian myth of the "master killer" Russian soldier with a "criminal" background, is what led to the creation of Wagner

it just resonated so WELL with Russians
but this myth, was their own creation in the first place, in early Post Soviet Russia, remember those days? Leningrad Cowboy Days, Yeltsin getting drunk and falling...
the early reformation of Russian manhood
ahhhh.....
good times

and of course Brat Dva







Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on September 27, 2023, 03:39:19 AM
Putin's whole future timeline with Trump, just took a MAJOR hit, due to the recent announcement banning the Trump Org from doing business OF ANY KIND in NY State
and facing a 250 million USD$ fine...
all due to the company being a complete fraud "from beginning to end"
and this is just a single drop in the bucket that's coming Trump's way
and by extension the Republican Party

step right up ladys and gentle-man
and see the age-old struggle between GOOD and EVIL
do you still have faith in such polarities
or is your FAITH more "nuanced"
of id vrs ego vrs super ego
stochastic and individual
that leads to a black and white outcome
of the gray shadows that play across it

but sniff the air
you can already sense the gathering storm

what lies on the other side of those dark clouds?
in a few short years we will all know
BUT...
I'll know before ya'll will

the sequence
A plague
A war
A kingdom divided

handwriting is on the wall

Novichok and Neutron Bombs
BZ gas in the St Petes Theater
armed fake electors take over the government run by a real estate tycoon

in the near future, instead of hundreds of individual drone operators separately piloting single drones
there will be an AI that powers ALL OF THEM, from 1 to thousands all at the same time, everywhere at once
shipping containers of drones delivered and launched a few days later
very high kill ratios
and they're flying in the THOUSANDS

the AI lives in a HUGE GLASS CUBE in a place called Odenton, Maryland
about 2 miles south of there, on the other side of the freeway
is where Russians have special Radio Transmitters
that transmit through large copper rods into the earth
that are hidden in the trees and bushes
next to the Patuxant River

Postscript

Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752

Mossad was SUPER PISSED!!!  They just found out that some enterprising Ukrainian Biznessman sold Iran not only a small number of long range nuclear cruise missiles
but also the complete blueprints for mfg and even blueprints for the mfg facility!!!
EVERYTHING they needed to make a nuclear delivery system capable of hitting Israel from Iran, at a time Palestinians were already aiming rocksts at Israeli civilians

I was pretty confident Iron Dome would handle them, but Mossad was REALLY, REALLY PISSED
and wanted the whole thing stopped immediately
a round-about parlez with USA on this subject didn't go anywhere...

then "the network" picked up the fact that all the Ukrainian principles were flying to Tehran for a top level business meeting
and Mossad saw that as an opportunity
and they "wacked" those Ukrainian MFers
by using a Tor "spoofer"
i.e. literally took over the signal processing of the Tor-1 missile launcher
and caused it to shoot Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 on its return flight
and that put an end to any further "collaboration" between Iran and Ukraine

this is the power of "Software Defined Radio"
and BABY
you ain't seen nothing YET
2-3 more years from now, the Electronic Warfare Capabilities of cutting edge hardware/software
vrs old Soviet Kakashka

will be like a wooden club vrs an AK-47

the USA is learnin a lot about the future in this war
it may be the first hybrid war of it's kind
but it sure won't be the last

like Russia, a lot of our military is based around fighting WWII
which ain't gonna happen that way again

we are going to be making RADICAL changes to how we fight wars, by the end of this century
and Ukraine is gonna be the first step....

will the use of tactical nuclear weapons or Chemical Weapons
be the next step

both of these offer a HUGE cost/benefit gain, compared to the use of conventional military forces
chemical weapons can only be used in Ukraine from early May, to end of Sept

Russia seems to be prepping some kind of nuke related event
possibly a public test

before a Russian nuclear attack
they will focus all their offensive capability against Ukrainin airdefenses
including using their own aircraft as decoys and also to engage radar ground target

once Ukraine's air defenses are degraded
they will hit Ukraine's military with 3 waves of 30 warheads of 2 KT neutron bombs that weigh about 100 pounds apiece

that take out all major permanent central bases and primary logistics depos

i.e. takes out the rear

you then have your forces retreat 5 km away from the enemy
Ukraine can't pursue, cuz there's 2 mines per sw meter in front of them
THEY'RE STUCK

so after your troops are 5 km away, you nuke the Ukrainian front-line with another 30 nukes
you wait 48 hours then you attack with everything you have to outflank them and then hit their rear, which THEY already de-mined!!!

weather permitting
you call chemical troops with TOS-! multi-barreled launchers
and toss Novichok and thermo baric bombs
who've been picked up with infra-red FLIR drones looking for 'heat signatures' on the ground
and then call out the GPS coordinates
of the soldiers who are about to die
 

you give every single Russian soldat
"V"mpyl

V is katamine with a strong steroid
that makes you totally wired for about 8 hours
you get so into it, you will kill cats and birds as well as pimply faced teenagers
because every time you do you and your friends all laugh
and you're all keepin score of who killed how many of what
ak-74s are one sweet weapon
and rpk-74 even better
you can carry huge amounts of ammo
gun never jams, EVER (Tula Quality - Chrome lined)
5.45x39 I use really HOT russian ammo with steel core

the optiks you can get now for an AK-74
are MUCH better than the old old scoped Mosin you see in Soviet films

and then of couse, there's NIGHT VISION
and the latest which is full-color night vision
with high quality optical magnification
that also switches to a FLIR mode
and you look for "heat signatures"
while you hide beneath a camoflaged thermal blanket


Note To Russians!

Don't eat your own "dog Food"
i.e. the whole Russian myth of the "master killer" Russian soldier with a "criminal" background, is what led to the creation of Wagner

it just resonated so WELL with Russians
but this myth, was their own creation in the first place, in early Post Soviet Russia, remember those days? Leningrad Cowboy Days, Yeltsin getting drunk and falling...
the early reformation of Russian manhood
ahhhh.....
good times

and of course Brat Dva

Are you off your meds again???
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 27, 2023, 03:52:13 AM
aye!
top 'o the mornin to ya guvner!
tis a fine day, NO?

me meds ye be inquiring 'bout?

Well, I have begun a marijuana eradication program
I have been slowly burning their crops

but, other than that
I sometimes like to lick the lithium strip inside this old Lithium battery I have...
nothing much more than what nature endowed me with

maybe...
I'm NOT the one who is CRAZY
but YOU ARE!!!
and if that's TRUE, how would YOU even know....

ehhhhh?
can YOU prove YOU AREN'T CRAZY?
and if you can't prove it...
does that in fact mean "YOU ARE CRAZY"

and whatever you respond with
I am 100% sure that there will not "be a proof"
anywhere in your reply
showing evidence of you being sane

therefor, I challenge you, sir
to pistols at 20 paces
and I shall aim at your tenny tiny cod piece

while my cod piece on the other hand, will wrap me in a tender embrace
and would be willing to take a bullet for me
and owing to it's ENORMOUS girth, the bullet would barely scratch it!

Meds?
I don't NEED no stinkin meds!!!!

I hereby absolve EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, of their sins!

where's my cookie?
did YOU take my cookie?



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: John Gaunt on September 27, 2023, 04:36:18 AM
aye!
top 'o the mornin to ya guvner!
tis a fine day, NO?

me meds ye be inquiring 'bout?

Well, I have begun a marijuana eradication program
I have been slowly burning their crops

but, other than that
I sometimes like to lick the lithium strip inside this old Lithium battery I have...
nothing much more than what nature endowed me with

maybe...
I'm NOT the one who is CRAZY
but YOU ARE!!!
and if that's TRUE, how would YOU even know....

ehhhhh?
can YOU prove YOU AREN'T CRAZY?
and if you can't prove it...
does that in fact mean "YOU ARE CRAZY"

and whatever you respond with
I am 100% sure that there will not "be a proof"
anywhere in your reply
showing evidence of you being sane

therefor, I challenge you, sir
to pistols at 20 paces
and I shall aim at your tenny tiny cod piece

while my cod piece on the other hand, will wrap me in a tender embrace
and would be willing to take a bullet for me
and owing to it's ENORMOUS girth, the bullet would barely scratch it!

Meds?
I don't NEED no stinkin meds!!!!

I hereby absolve EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, of their sins!

where's my cookie?
did YOU take my cookie?
Yep, I thought as much.
Watch out for the white coats. They’re coming to get you back to your comfy padded room.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on September 27, 2023, 05:15:17 AM
do THEY have MY COOKIE?

some cookies go together very nicely with a cuppa Earl Grey, just after dawn falls upon the glen
Lord Help Us, if they ALWAYS serve us Dahrljeerling, such a BORE...

doesn't ANYONE go to Kensington anymore and return to us with the necessities of a civilized life?
If so, here's a shopping list, and a 1000 quid, about 4 bags worth from Harrods Food Court
left over sterling is for your uber and you keep the rest + 200 more as tip

cuz sheeeet holmes, I got the munchies "BAD"
and could use a caviar and sushi run to Harrod's Food Court

when my daughters were little girls they'd buy their clothes there
which was actually cheaper than the smaller shops just outside on Kensington
a simple Irish Wool Scarf, nothing at all fancy would you set you back 1300 pounds

In Paris, a custom tailored winter Parka for a little girl cost $4500
but it was to freakin "die for"

In America, you have walmart and target and costco after you're married
when you live in American suburbia, you have to recalibrate downward from Europe...

In America, Nordstrom and Whole Foods are the last vestige of the American dream
standing next to Disney
at the unemployment office

a hard rain gonna fall one day
a hard rain gonna fall

as the American dream
becomes a nightmare

next year, when forces collide
on the battle field
which one shall yield
like on some Autumn Dallas Day
the crosshairs of destiny
pointed to the back of his head

which one shall yield?

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 04, 2023, 01:58:35 AM
Well looks like the much hyped Ukrainian counter offensive has failed. We're into October now and winter with Ukraine only taking a couple of towns and some villages. Russia much the same along other parts of the line. Meanwhile apparently western stockpiles of ammunition are running low with which to give Ukraine:

Western ammo stocks at ‘bottom of the barrel’ as Ukraine war drags on, NATO official warns

http://www.cnn.com/2023/10/04/europe/uk-nato-ukraine-war-ammunition-intl-hnk-ml

That means western nations are going to have to dig into their pockets to pay for more and that's going to sting some with western governments heavily in debt after COVID. My guess is that they will and winter may lessen the rate at which munitions are used but for how long? Not a good sign for Ukraine with perhaps a year to go before Russia starts falling short of Armaments and possibly munitions.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 04, 2023, 06:40:47 AM
no...
it isn't

Ukraine is primarily targeting Russia's Artillery and missile launchers (including ships)
the fact that Russia is relocating the Black Sea Naval Force, out of sevastopol, to be out of range of Ukrainian drones, is an indication of how successful this has been

Bakhmut, was a Russian killing zone
cuz Putin won't let them retreat
so the Russians are down in the lowlands
and the Ukrainians have the high ground
where they just keep chopping up the Russians

Russia has lost more than 1/4 of all their artillery and missile launchers
they can replace soldiers
there's an infinite amount of land

but they can't replace the artillery which is essential
when Russian equipment levels are down to some level
then, the offensive begins

they don't have to "take" Crimea
just have a good blockade and cut them off completely
they cannot survive
forcing them to surrender

meanwhile, Russia and the USA are having SIMULTANEOUS nation-wide "emergency drills"
this is NOT a coincidence

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 05, 2023, 02:00:36 PM
It is now, it's switched tactics or rather expanded on what they have noticed is working more effectively. However, their goal of advancing at least near Crimea and perhaps retaking Melitopol and/or Mariupol has fallen woefully short. Instead they've found their Counter-offensive blunted on a defensive walk of land mines and fortifications this year at least.

Next year, next Spring brings the opportunity for a new Counter-offensive. However with winter soon setting in both sides have stated they will be conducting a winter offensive. In reality that is likely to fall down to missile strikes as you state Krim. Whether either side will be softened up enough for the either side to push on through on the ground come spring remains to be seen.

For the West I still firmly believe that they are playing the long game and holding back on giving Ukraine enough to knock Russia out one blow fearing repercussions from the Russians, i.e neutron bombs. I think the West at the moment is probably finding it quite a big boon to see Russia's artillery being destroyed but by bit. The Russians seem to base their war strategy on overpowering with their huge arsenal of artillery like they did in Syria, with that gone or seriously diminished their ability to conduct that sort of land warfare again goes particularly if their economy becomes so busted as to be difficult to manufacture a lot of artillery pieces again. Already Russia has lost most of their tanks that are still able to roll out of their rusting backstock. Once the artillery is gone then indeed it should prove easier to push the Russians back.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 06, 2023, 08:30:53 AM
With the strong sanctions the West enacted against them, Russia is now in a vulnerable position as they have lost all pricing power they had with China and India, currently their largest customers.

Even while Russia is able to sell to China and India, they demand hefty price discounts for the oil and gas they receive as they know that Russia is unable to sell to Western markets.
on top of that, they don't currently have the infrastructure in place, to switch gas delivery from Europe to go to Asia instead...

result: big drop in Russian gas/oil shipments, big drop in price and income, while America waltzes in with LNG terminals and LNG shipping, and eats Russia's lunch!

The USA now CONTROLS Europe's Gas Business and NOT RUSSIA
The multi-billions $USD Russians spent on european infrastructure is NOW worthless
the North Arctic gas and oil fields that Exxon/Mobile leased, now sit idle
since 2014, Russia's GDP has FALLEN 20%

Russia's population is less today than what it was 20 yr ago
In the Russian Far East, Russians are fleeing to the Western Russian Cities, because living conditions are "so harsh" there
and they're being replaced by illegal Chinese Immigrants who are EVERYWHERE THERE now!!

the war has taken a dis-proportionate amount of young men from this area, who can't afford to be permanent college students,
Why YES, I am working on my second PHD, Officer, have a good day!!!
DA, Dobre Den Suka!

and of course, any smart Russian, especially wealthy ones, have at least gotten their kids the hell out of Russia, like I have and my in-laws have
and for that, I'm grateful to Putin...

cuz my klan is WITH ME now
and the life of a Patriarch, is a pretty damned good one!
commoners "bow and scrape" before thee...

to all you little tiny microscopic haters on this board...
this BUD's for YOU!!!

if flingin your hate and anger towards me makes you happy
then why do you reactionary knuckleheads ALWAYS SEEM SO DAMNED SAD?
especially when I "Troll You!
you ALWAYS snap at the bait
and then I reel you in, laugh at ya, pull the hook out, and throw ya back in the Sewage Infested River you call "Home"

deep down inside...
I'm just a simple Texas JOO Boy who like's fishin for Rednecks, it's a very relaxing past-time!!!
a bottle of iced chilled Pilsner, and some Panama Red
and my redneck trollin rod...

I could spend all day, catchin me some Rednecks, and just kick back, relaxin, enjoying the simple things that life has to offer...
yep...

g'head, shoot at me all ya want
I can withstand all the slings and arrows that you cast upon me
and still stand strong and victorious amidst the surrounding ruins
JUST as the photo shows!!!!

oh SNAP!!! HOMEBOYZ!!!!



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 08, 2023, 01:23:44 AM
Interesting article on Russian influence in the attack on Israel-

http://www.ynetnews.com/article/sj0dtokba
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 08, 2023, 06:08:37 AM
The Rude Beast Is Slouching Towards Bethleham
as I have told ya'll MANY times

ahhh.....
light one up, and I can dream....

That Israel would go nuclear against Iran before Russia does against Ukraine
48 hrs later and there's no more Iran and no more Iranian nuke and missiles
no more Islamic state and Hamas and Hezbollah lose their funding

THIS TIME...
Israel should take their Palestinian counter-attack ALL THE WAY
destroy EVERY Hamas asset, even a falafal cart
cripple Palestinian infrastructure
no electricity, no water, no gas, close ALL checkpoints
shut them down
make them feel the pain
and keep makin 'em feel it
but free exit visas and transport outta the country, bye Felicia!

but...
unfortunately, Israel gave up their AMMO stockpile reserve to Ukraine
doesn't "all this" start lookin like a chessboard now
one side makes a move, then the other side makes a countermove...
Israel gives up its ammo, THEN Israel is attacked
this is what good plannin and coordination between Intelligence Agencies can do!

incrementalism...until THE BIG SURPRIZE!!!!!!

you have to ALWAYS be willing to treat captives as though they're dead
not every situation is Entebbe

think ONLY about avenging them 100 fold...
THIS is what USA should've done after 9-11
go on a killin spree in the middle east w/ nukes and leveled Iran

Have a live TV broadcast with a roulette wheel with the name of Iranian Cities
have a pretty model spin the wheel
and whatever city the wheel points to...
you drop a nuke on it on live TV!!!

AFTER, you nuked EVERY single Iranian Nuclear asset and military base ALL AT THE SAME TIME

The Nuclear War Era
is much closer than you think

OTOH, I'm a Novichok and biotoxin guy...
kinda "quaint" and old-fashioned ya might say...

a nuclear weapon is the ultimate asymetrical weapon
after the first one is used, there will be an avalanche of them after...
the destruction will accumulate faster than anyone can even see

expensive, large standing armies will be obsolete....
a small professional force with tactical nukes
then LATER, an AI system with nukes and assassins


the next two years is an historical inflection point...
kinda like the end of the 1930s

will we stop the fascists?
or will they stop us?

who has Russia sent from Minsk this time?
another...like him?

and the FSB officer in the Russian embassy in Mexico City...
what branch of the Russian military was he in?

PS

Russia's most successful political science successes are:

1 The Kennedy assassination
2 Using russian hacked emails and Russia's bribe to FBI official to release bogus details about Hillary right before the election to help Trump

Russia ALMOST succeeded in getting Ukraine to join the  Commonwealth of Independent States 10 yr ago
If Ukraine had become a full member of the Commonwealth of Independent States, pre 2014
this war would never have happened
instead, Russian oligarchs would be runnin Ukraine directly, instead of indirectly

Now, there is MUCH more at stake than in 2016 for Russia
they will take even bigger risks next yr



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on October 09, 2023, 08:20:53 AM
Moldova’s pro-European president, Maia Sandu, said Russia’s Wagner paramilitary force was the main force behind an attempt to foment a coup against her. She told the Financial Times in an interview published on Friday that Wagner’s late leader Yevgeny Prigozhin was behind the bid to overthrow her and that Moscow remained engaged in attempts to destabilise the country, located between Ukraine and EU member Romania, notably by funnelling money into Moldova to bribe voters in next month’s local elections.

The FT article is pay walled.
http://www.ft.com/content/1e317be3-1837-45da-beef-be0347937fd9

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moldovan-president-says-russias-wagner-head-plotted-coup-against-her-ft-2023-10-06/

http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/moldovan-president-says-russias-wagner-head-plotted-coup-against-her/

http://www.politico.eu/article/moldova-president-maia-sandu-yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-coup/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 09, 2023, 08:43:06 AM
the chessboard is definitely bigger than just Ukraine
Israel has been added
we got Armenia
we got Moldova and Georgia
we got Syria
we got Wagner in Africa - and they just lost an IL-76 cargo plane!
and of course Russia and Ukraine
we can expect North Korea and China to also make moves now...
it's all buildin towards the end of next year

about two days from now, about half of Israel's total Army is going to mobilize and invade and occupy ALL of Gaza

and seize every weapon, and kill/capture every Gaza Hamas fighter

the place will be leveled, cuz every sq meter is gonna be fought for
afterwards...
all tunnels sealed, all weapons mfg bulldozed
every building with a sniper shelled by tanks
The end of Gaza...
thousands and thousands and thousands of them dead
almost all of them are homeless

if Iranian cruise missiles strike Israel during this time
Israel will destroy Iran's nuclear infrastructure with USA's help
so a war within another war!
will the saudis join us/israel or not?

this'll be the biggest ground war for Israel since the Yom Kippur war in '73
Israel must destroy all tunnels, weapon production/storage and confiscate all weapons, and kill or capture all who are armed in Gaza without exception

but...
what you guys don't see, is what Israel is showin over and over to the soldiers it just mobilized
the videos of dead teenaged israeli girls, stripped naked and their corpses abused by crowds of islamic men

and little kidnapped frightened israeli kids beaten by adults with sticks
but EVERY Israeli soldier has SEEN this over and over (their commanders make sure of it)

and that's WHY it's gonna be a freakin massacre
soon as the IDF moves in to Gaza and the shootin starts
it'll turn more into a "feeding frenzy" than a fight

if I were Arab livin in Gaza, i'd GTF outta there ASAP!!!!
I would not sleep in any of that crappy construction over there, cuz it'll be your tomb

sleep only outside
in some place not visible from the air

and make a straight line to the nearest Exit and RUN as fast as you can!!!!
if you leave RIGHT NOW!
you might just make it out in time
otherwise...
retribution is coming
and it will strike thee down with FURIOUS ANGER...

meanwhile pay Hamas to NOT shoot rockets from your neighborhood
and pick some other poorer neighborhood instead
and they get blown up by Israeli counter-missiles and NOT you!

that's what I'm here for...
to help you people...
cuz. i'm a "giver"


if YOU GENUINELY accept the consequences for all of mankind's sins
and you are willing to lay down your life as secular punisment for mankind's sins
can you turn that into a tax-free business shelter?
Asking for a friend...

Jesus Saves!
Now So Can You!
By Creating Your Very Own Church!!!!
gott is mitt uns
and GLOVES!!!
No More Cold Hands or Heart!
Prosperity Gospel Baby
nothin but Blue Skies, from now on...
basking in the glory of God's ETERNAL LOVE
which is like SUNSHINE
to help your heart GROW
as well as your bank account

the good lord, helps those
who HELP THEMSELVES


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 18, 2023, 11:41:02 PM
Check the soldiers, Trench.

What can you possibly offer?

http://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/17b8sf2/ukrainian_soldiers_on_the_battlefield/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 19, 2023, 06:52:28 AM
Trench can offer an "off-ramp" from the Ukraine war...
no Ukrainian man can do that

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 19, 2023, 08:16:59 AM
Check the soldiers, Trench.

What can you possibly offer?

http://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/17b8sf2/ukrainian_soldiers_on_the_battlefield/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Lol, yes they are female Ukrainian soldiers and many foxy looking ones :P

However none of them are in the front line, it's all for show for 'the gram'. A lot of posing it up, they may or may not be signed up (some may just be donning the army gear for fun) but even if they are like I said way back the Army will offer them behind the lines support roles. They may be way, way behind the lines as guards to military sites, at checkpoints etc, stuff just to free up make soldiers for the front. In that they are of course useful but it's not dangerous front line stuff, just posey stuff for the camera.

I know a few females do volunteer for the front but they are extremely few in number and rarely the pretty girls we see here in this video. Yes an exception can always be fished out here or there. I don't blame these girls in life you are born a certain way and these girls while they could go on the front line it's not really their scene, yes they could get with it and either survive or not but they aren't initially the usual sort of material that go for that stuff.

Why these girls are doing this stuff for the camera? is another issue.

Are they just doing it for fun, obviously for the Posey pictures, but because they want a Ukrainian Soldier? Or are trying to entice Ukrainian men to enlist? Who knows. I doubt they are really with it in terms of the situation men are facing at the front and I think they will please themselves. Soldier girl pin up today, foreign man seeker tommorow.

I'm not saying they are devious or can't be trusted as such, many women have legitimate reasons to be abroad from the war, problems & issues why they can't be in Ukraine. Some suffer too badly from sounds of bombardment or have children where the parents don't wish to risk being randomly killed by a drone that slip through, etc.

I think Krim is right, there are different women that want different things and some Ukrainian guys are just not going to suit all Ukrainian women not because they aren't decent guys but because of circumstance and that can be the deciding factor.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 19, 2023, 08:58:25 AM
Russia's attempt to outflank the West's support for Ukraine
by funding Hama's attack on Israel....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sanctioned-but-unstopped-is-russia-using-garantex-to-politically-distract-from-its-ukrainian-stalemate/ar-AA1iuhTF?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e101bdc87cd241d295cc2f0618b42285&ei=57


if the US economy is faltering due to elevated petrol costs
then Nov 2024 is a MAJOR opportunity for Putin
even better than what it was for the Soviets in Nov 1963
maybe a symbolic political assassination
can be even more effective than an actual one
for example, "Hillary's emails" was entirely engineered by the kremlin (russians hacking, and bribing FBI to "leak" before election)
slovo te mamichka

weird thought:
when Putin dies, will one of his "body doubles" take his place
will there be a never ending line of Putin doubles, effectively making Putin immortal


there is not a single country in the world that is prepared for a MAJOR WAR
so I don't believe we're getting WW3 now
but sometime in the future
after everybody starts rearming
which has already started
and it looks like WW3 will be a limited nuclear war
and NOT armegeddon

if you compare our timeline to WWII
I think we're in the early 30s now

later there will be even more wars when climate change triggers famines, etc
Our brand is Crisis

we are going from a land of plenty
to one of scarcity
a lot of folks are gonna be REALLY unhappy in the future
chaos ensues
helter skelter in the bomb shelter


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 19, 2023, 11:55:33 AM
Trench can offer an "off-ramp" from the Ukraine war...
no Ukrainian man can do that

A woman who enrols as a soldier in the UAF in all likelihood isn’t looking for an off ramp.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on October 19, 2023, 11:58:28 AM
Lol, yes they are female Ukrainian soldiers and many foxy looking ones :P

However none of them are in the front line, it's all for show for 'the gram'. A lot of posing it up, they may or may not be signed up (some may just be donning the army gear for fun) but even if they are like I said way back the Army will offer them behind the lines support roles. They may be way, way behind the lines as guards to military sites, at checkpoints etc, stuff just to free up make soldiers for the front. In that they are of course useful but it's not dangerous front line stuff, just posey stuff for the camera.

I know a few females do volunteer for the front but they are extremely few in number and rarely the pretty girls we see here in this video. Yes an exception can always be fished out here or there. I don't blame these girls in life you are born a certain way and these girls while they could go on the front line it's not really their scene, yes they could get with it and either survive or not but they aren't initially the usual sort of material that go for that stuff.

Why these girls are doing this stuff for the camera? is another issue.

Are they just doing it for fun, obviously for the Posey pictures, but because they want a Ukrainian Soldier? Or are trying to entice Ukrainian men to enlist? Who knows. I doubt they are really with it in terms of the situation men are facing at the front and I think they will please themselves. Soldier girl pin up today, foreign man seeker tommorow.

I'm not saying they are devious or can't be trusted as such, many women have legitimate reasons to be abroad from the war, problems & issues why they can't be in Ukraine. Some suffer too badly from sounds of bombardment or have children where the parents don't wish to risk being randomly killed by a drone that slip through, etc.

I think Krim is right, there are different women that want different things and some Ukrainian guys are just not going to suit all Ukrainian women not because they aren't decent guys but because of circumstance and that can be the deciding factor.

Untrue. There are women on the frontline. One featured in the link posted regularly from Bakhmut last year, when Wagner forces were there. That’s where her unit was.

Frankly I am surprised you’re even considering Ukraine, given how risk adverse/suspicious of motivations you are.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 19, 2023, 02:59:36 PM
"A woman who enrols as a soldier in the UAF in all likelihood isn’t looking for an off ramp."

not yet....
but after next year, every single one of em will be
cuz they don't wanna get thyroid cancer from the fallout
ummmm hmmmmmm

why does everyone feel the future is just a continuation of the present?
that the tree will keep bending in the wind and not break one day soon
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 19, 2023, 03:42:54 PM
Untrue. There are women on the frontline. One featured in the link posted regularly from Bakhmut last year, when Wagner forces were there. That’s where her unit was.

Frankly I am surprised you’re even considering Ukraine, given how risk adverse/suspicious of motivations you are.

Some of them may be in the UAF, but there are assault & counter assault troops on the front line then there are all the support troops of varying types near but behind them. A news reporter role or a quick poke up the front isn't quite the same. I'm not saying a few don't serve at the front but many/most won't.

You kind of got to be able to differentiate between the two, the real deal and not the real deal.

In the video these girls are all wearing clean fresh uniform free off damage, dirt, etc. Guys right at the front have worn, damaged uniform, dirt from the trenches, are weary and tired and had to sleep rough, etc.

These girls are free from any of that. The footage is obviously put on just for the purpose of tarting it up. There are no enemy there, the one who is firing is firing into the thin air, there is nothing there.

When I briefly worked for the MOD from way back there was an office girl, quite pretty, young like these girls. They dressed her up in army fatigues one day and slapped a helmet on her like one of these girls. She looked just the same, that's more than these girls look like, they are dressed up and playing the part but they are not the real deal.

If they had been at the front seeing their own killed, limbs blown off and distress every where they wouldn't be the cheery sorts we see here. They would most likely be very affected by it and in no mood to act it up soldier girl style.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 19, 2023, 04:00:58 PM
best way to make russia a much more chill place
is to allow chornie ludie (black people) to live there
it will have a major transformative effect as this video shows

http://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyFuckingVideos/comments/1752m6r/best_music_video_ever/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

this is the RU I can grove on
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Narcoman Special Edition
Post by: krimster2 on October 19, 2023, 07:37:10 PM
my incomplete confession

tune-in turn-on and kill and tell

Russians got "V" which is ketamine cut with benzidrine - a disassociative and a stimulant!
you will be wired as all hell, and will have instant reactions and be SUPER ALERT and have a lot of stamina for runnin, etc
no sense of fear - only PURE ADRENALIN!!!

and ya won't fall asleep either, like on guard duty, but ya might start to hallucinate about seein stuff in the dark
especially after you been takin those drugs for awhile, ya know what I'm sayin?
haha


OTOH, Hamas has captagon
http://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/article-769250
a MUCH inferior version of what Russia uses

you can EASILY buy all this in the market in southern uzbekistan (though I'm not sure why you'd want to)
the cross-border ones with Afghanistan
gives you access to ALL KINDS of AMAZING STUFF like real freakin Opium for example!

20 USD$ will buy you a big strip of raw black tar opium in a plastic baggie, enuff to stay comfortably numb for about two weeks
you could dissolve it in alchhol, or ingest it, or smoke it

I preferred to smoke a mixture of raw opium and blond hashish, especially at night when it was raining
it sharpened me up, for the old ultra-violence as well
a dis-inhibitor, to let the beast out to play
time zone in the hunter's favor

a wide awake nocturnal hunter in search of night time prey
and then a deep sleep all the next day

but for you westerners to go to this market, especially NOW,  100% ya gotta be with at least two other beefy locals (who you hire as guides/drivers/interpreter)
and you gotta dress local, and keep your damned mouth shut in public, until you learn some Uzbek

i've had both of these military stimulants in various forms over the years, but prefer hashish and adderall (much more "civilized and refined" than those crude ones intended for the lower ranks!)
cuz I don't fight so much as just plain assasinate (especially at my age)
so my job description, has very different needs when compared to a soldier
the most physical thing I have to do is walk fast...

BUT...
be VERY "situationally aware" hyper aware
of the exact moment to act, with perfect timing

30 sec later I'm a block away, and have completely different clothes and hair on
and then I get a taxi outta there, and speak with a fake accent to the taxi driver

smokin hash gets rid of the anxiety that naturally comes whenever you do this
the addrenalin you feel, when ya "walk up" behind someone
especially for the first time, the tightness you feel in your stomach when you're just steps away
and all the strong emotions you feel and have to deal with after

adderall not only helps with focus, but it also helps with lack of sleep from the night before and the night after

subsonic .22 ammo to be used with a suppressor
pistol makes a little "pop" sound
whole thing, whip it out, fire it, put it away, 3 seconds tops
and a straight perpendicular shot into the center of the back of the head from about 3-4 feet (helps that I'm tall, and look down on most people)
my "disguise" is to use makeup and clothes and a gray wig to make me look 10-15 yr older
nobody pays any attention to a senior citizen, they're invisible

every dawg has his day achmed
be seein ya'll
paka

haha
i'm just kiddin about all this, right?
hmmm hmmmm

PS
if ya go to the southern uzbekistan market
it's pure freakin financial chaos as well as EVERY other kind, ya gotta play your "A" game

you may end up having to deal with half a dozen different local currencies depending on the vendor and which side of the market you're on
plus doing FOREX between multiples of them, big mess
this is where your "brat" comes in handy, cuz THEY handle the transaction, and you pay them a commision, and they're THRILLED, cuz they made a years wages in a day's trading
by workin with you, and these dewds are now your brothers for life

they will take you through everything, step-by-step first, they make the deal, when a price is set, they say, "we'll be back in 3 min with the money" this is SOP there, how THEY do bizness
you go out and discretely find a sheltered spot and shell out the cash and go back in
and do the deal,
BIG GRINS all around!!!
you bow and say "assalomu alaykum"
but if you pay your "brat" 10% of net profit, you still make plenty
and once you sell that load, you need to contact them to setup your next run
eveentually you can start thinkin about havin your own place there


just sayin...
you dumb phuques could be havin some freakin AMAZING adventures there
and the wimmin are OMG and so MANY different kinds, and almost no REAL competition
you can date WAY, WAY outside your legue there!!

get yourself GIA certified, I don't know the current price, google it
go to gem shows and start pricing raw emeralds
after a year of doin this then go to uzbekistan and start shoppin in the gem market
the ABSOLUTE BEST highest quality stones i've ever seen, some still in the matrix, for pennies on the dollar for what they're worth in the USA or Europe
so set whatever dollar amount ya wanna spend
and then multiply that number by 50
when you get it "back home"
subtract your expenses to get your net - and give your druzya 10% of this amount in $USD

you just gotta figure out how to hide 'em on your way back
and I sure as hell ain't gonna hand out my way holmes
my mama didn't raise NO FOOL!!

none the less, to those who have actual testicles
you can have an AMAZING TIME THERE!!!
EVERYTHING there will blow your mind!!!
it really is like being in some other "new reality"

Tashkent has really transformed from the 90s when I first went
now it's a very comfortable city, for Americans at least, to be in due to the presence of US hotel chains with english speakin staff
not too hard to hire interpreters, drivers, etc through hotel

if ya wanted, it wouldn't be difficult to get a "sleeping dictionary"
besides being your interpreter, she will be your cook, you can go grocery shopping with her, and pay the bills, and throw out the garbage, and that's pretty much it...
oh...
uh, yeah, she's also gonna sleep in the same bed as you

WTF is NOT to like about this arrangment?
a scrumptious girl who snuggles up against you in bed

what monthly salary + room and board, use of car, etc would you be willing to spend for a full-time live in sexretary
because I can afford it, I'm suggesting $5,000 USD per month, which I'd consider on the high end
but OTOH...
I could get a 9+ english speaker for that price!!
would NOT need a "fluffer"

so to justify her cost, you need to do $15,000 profit per month
you can EASILY do that with gemstones
and just get all the pooty tang you want, and I mean 100%, not even 99.99%
after your first year, you will not have to pay for having a woman's company
cuz you will have "volunteers"
but yur always gonna be dependent on one for bein your dictionary
it sux, when ya meet the most stunning woman you EVER freakin saw in your life
and she doesn't speak 10 words of English, and hardly any Russian

crying I was

nah, never mind, just stay home, collect your salary and watch porn....

I am but a poor wayfaring stranger,
telling you of the promised land
a frontier land
a place for a stranger like you to pioneer in
and seek your fortune

go far east young man to uzbekistan

OMG!!  what a freakin insane life a young westerner could have there!!
and bank some serious coin as well

you would get WAY, WAY too much pooty-tang for your own good there, so maybe it's a bad idea, I dunno...










Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 29, 2023, 05:19:48 AM
Latest news from Ukraine is that the Russians are pressing them hard and Ukraine is struggling with low ammunition supply particularly off artillery shells. Ukraine is apparently losing many men and armaments and the situation is difficult. Ukraine will probably hold on but for the moment things aren't going well on the front fir Ukraine. Russia is using its usual just throw it all in there and don't care as numbers can be replaced tactics, they aren't making headway fast but it's proving hard for Ukraine to hold them off apparently. I'm glad I'm not out there as it's no doubt awful bring out there on either side I would imagine.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2023, 06:36:54 AM
Russian media celebrates Trump republican victory

http://youtu.be/NZ8g0f0USX8

it doesn't matter how many Russians are killed/wounded, they're just a daily statistic to Putin that he doesn't care about
the only smart thing for Russians to do is GTF outta Russia
before they or their kids are sent to Ukraine as drone fodder...

average Russians are too poor, and too ignorant to understand this reality

putin has phuqued up Russia's future, to the point that it will neve be fixed
after next year, Russia will be of no help to anyone in a mideast war
meanwhile, Israelis are REALLY pissed at Russia now
that's gonna come back and bite Russian's jhoppa in the future, this I promise you...

because of these factors, I ran will stand down, and only use proxies against USA/Israel and not direct action

neither Russian or American military could fight a substantial war right now

USA nuclear arsenal, is old and obsolete
USA pushed for nuclear disarmament while the rest of the world laughed...
well..
it's time they wiped the smile off their face
ya'll wanna play, then let's play

I suspect Israel will be the first to use nukes or possibly Russia
but after that, their use will become increasingly common

in the future, wars will mainly be fought with WMDS, cuz nobody is gonna be able to afford big "standing armies"
so terrorism and WMDs are how conflicts will be managed
and the effects of climate change are gonna cause a lotta wars

this is why I LOVE Costa Rica, cuz they are the only latin American country without a military
so when "THE WAR" comes, this'll be a fine spot to chill in

PS
Jew hunting is officially a sport once more in Russia!
my gradparents were players in the old days in Odesa
but now all the Jew hunting action is in Dagestan as the video shows

http://twitter.com/i/status/1718728751658287324

my suggestion, hide some Israeli flag stickers on ya
and when Russian mulisms aren't lookin stick it on the back of their coat
and then point your finger at 'em and yell loudly in russian "Zhid!!!" "yevray"
and watch the ensuing hillarity

I take advantage of the fact that I'm such a good lookin "crypto-jew" who easily passes as an aryan
this feature has ALWAYS paid HUGE dividends for me

all the dark stuff I have warned ya'll about the last few years on this board is already starting to come true
the future is unevenly distributed today
but wait until you see what's coming, it's gonna be global pain

the world of abundance we enjoyed, is gonna come to a crashing end





 

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine - Narcoman Special Edition
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 31, 2023, 03:09:14 AM
Tashkent has really transformed from the 90s when I first went
now it's a very comfortable city, for Americans at least, to be in due to the presence of US hotel chains with english speakin staff
not too hard to hire interpreters, drivers, etc through hotel

if ya wanted, it wouldn't be difficult to get a "sleeping dictionary"
besides being your interpreter, she will be your cook, you can go grocery shopping with her, and pay the bills, and throw out the garbage, and that's pretty much it...
oh...
uh, yeah, she's also gonna sleep in the same bed as you

WTF is NOT to like about this arrangment?
a scrumptious girl who snuggles up against you in bed

Apparently a lot of US money has gone into Ukraine since the 2014 ousting of the pro Russian government. Since then apparently Ukraine has adopted the US system in Education and in many other ways also. My guess is that is partly what got the Russians back up, Ukraine being more under the US domain. Corruption to most ordinary Ukrainians apparently is now not such a visible thing that they experience but perhaps still goes on up the top.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on October 31, 2023, 07:28:51 AM
Ukraine wanted to get rid of the obsolete soviet/russian designed educational system and turn it into something more modern and actually useful, this started over 20 years ago, when they copied the European educational system, and NOT American, nobody in their right mind would copy the US's broken educational system or health care (what a joke!)

I served on the board of my daughters school in sevastopol, and this topic of modernization was one of their biggest priorities
However, about half of the students in this "elitny" school were the kids of Russian military officers stationed in Crimea
there was a lot of "pushback" from these folks, cuz anything NOT Russian is "plohoi"
now that Russia is runnin that school, it's basically a military training academy for Jr "Cadets" to shave off some of the time from having to train them in the future, before they're deployed

anything that threatens Russian government's control over it's population will be repulsed (we don't need NO WESTERN EDUCATION! it's better to keep the masses ignorant)
kinda like the way it was a crime to teach slaves how to read in the cornfederacy

corruption is endemic to Russian/Ukrainian society
the way violence is in Gaza
the living conditions are a breeding ground for this
until it becomes an established traditional way of life that no one questions

currently, in Russian occupied Crimea
a beginning teacher's salary is about 220 USD$ per month (I spoke with one on the phone last week)
and inflation since the war, means they can eat meat once per week (true story)

but, of course, Putin will win the next election by a "landslide"
future United Russia's Putin political ads are easy to predict
nothin about progress in the war, or about the economy
it's gonna just be pure "patriotic symbolism" self-sacrifice for the motherland

russians never mentally left serfdom
americans aren't that far behind them now

meanwhile, republicans are making their move to defund ukraine
EVERYTHING is converging now...EVERYTHING....
and of course, you're all BLIND to the signs of what's coming, that are ALL AROUND YOU!!!


Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2023, 05:11:41 AM
Senator Mike Lee (I assume not ML on here  ;D )was being interviewed on the news yesterday, either Sky News or the BBC News one of them. An interesting interview, apparently the US has spent well over $100 billion dollars on the war in Ukraine so far a figure only just recently surpassed by Europe. I was astonished by how much it was all costing. Apparently it's costing more to hold Russia back than what Russia is spending - my guess is partly due to better armaments/ammo and shipping off them, training, economically supporting the Ukrainian State, etc. Russia of course on the other hand is using up its Armaments and will likely run out of money to continue the war at some point in the not too distant future. Mike Lee himself seem more taken with supporting Israel than Ukraine from what I gathered.

Meanwhile the EU is pressing it's more wealthier West European members for a eye watering sum of money, not just for Ukraine but also to service the high debts it has taken on. Unsurprisingly members such as Germany, France and Italy are not so keen:

Via Euronews: Brussels opens Pandora's box with €100 billion budget top-up request
http://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/01/brussels-opens-pandoras-box-with-100-billion-budget-top-up-request

Lucky we got out of the EU when we did as it avoids us being tapped for the money  :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 01, 2023, 07:41:17 AM
the capitalist oligarchy impaired or destroyed its own social, environmental and economic conditions.
This is leading to a global economic, environmental and social crisis that will result in MANY, MANY wars

after the "long emergency" occurs, NOBODY will have the resources to support a military anymore (or anything else)
state sponsored terrorism, aka "asymetrical warfare" is the future dawg, augmented by DIY WMDs (of which I am an advocate with DIY Anthrax and Novichok)
2025 will be an inflection point for the future

almost none of the "boomers" alive today, will be able to recognize the future that's coming their way
everyone will prefer to stick their head in the sand and pretend it's all gonna "work out"

the fact that we're using the word "pogrom" once more
is an indication of where the world is heading

my survival strategy?
I plan on selling all the property I own in Texas (ground zero for global warming)
and relocate to a more northern part of the USA, like Idaho
and buy enough land to grow our own food on and be independent
while also having several properties outside the USA, "just in case"
and I have a boatload of precious metals for the time when 100 dollar bills are just layin in the street, cuz they're utterly worthless



Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2023, 12:50:32 PM
the capitalist oligarchy impaired or destroyed its own social, environmental and economic conditions.
This is leading to a global economic, environmental and social crisis that will result in MANY, MANY wars

after the "long emergency" occurs, NOBODY will have the resources to support a military anymore (or anything else)
state sponsored terrorism, aka "asymetrical warfare" is the future dawg, augmented by DIY WMDs (of which I am an advocate with DIY Anthrax and Novichok)
2025 will be an inflection point for the future

almost none of the "boomers" alive today, will be able to recognize the future that's coming their way
everyone will prefer to stick their head in the sand and pretend it's all gonna "work out"

the fact that we're using the word "pogrom" once more
is an indication of where the world is heading

my survival strategy?
I plan on selling all the property I own in Texas (ground zero for global warming)
and relocate to a more northern part of the USA, like Idaho
and buy enough land to grow our own food on and be independent
while also having several properties outside the USA, "just in case"
and I have a boatload of precious metals for the time when 100 dollar bills are just layin in the street, cuz they're utterly worthless

Thanks for the info Krim, that is interesting stuff, the stuff on Ukraine being nearer to the European education system also maybe even the UK. Good to know I am still vastly outearning a Teacher's salary out there :D even on my meagre UK salary lol.

I'm guessing all the debt from COVID, supporting Ukraine, etc is the elephant in the room that most government's want to put off addressing.

Will I be ok in Wales? I have thick stone walls about half a meter thick and the weather is usually reasonably cool with the exception of last year where it reached about 40 degrees. I stayed indoors where it was surprisingly reasonable temperature, didn't even need the fan I bought for it lol. I would have to get food deliveries in I think though my back garden is only 4 metres square.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 01, 2023, 02:37:59 PM
what happened to all the Brits workin in the EU after Brexit?
I used to really envy those guys workin in Marsailles instead of Manchester, OMG, 35 hr work week, 5 weeks of vacation, free health care and education...
Tolouse looked like Silicon Valley
and French criminals (mostly arabic) were too dumb/weak and unarmed to be a threat to someone like me there
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2023, 07:37:36 PM
what happened to all the Brits workin in the EU after Brexit?
I used to really envy those guys workin in Marsailles instead of Manchester, OMG, 35 hr work week, 5 weeks of vacation, free health care and education...
Tolouse looked like Silicon Valley
and French criminals (mostly arabic) were too dumb/weak and unarmed to be a threat to someone like me there

If you're talking the tech guys I hear that post Brexit some EU countries were offering Digital Nomad visas with good terms to try and entice UK tech workers (and hence taxes) to their country. I don't know how the exact lay of that land is last I heard the old ex-pat UK retirees in Spain were leaving but were being replaced by remote workers from the UK who would go out there for a few months.

The five weeks holiday a year we all get, the EU originally brought that in (one of the few good things they did) but we retained it after Brexit :D That's because we agreed a free trade agreement with them and so as part of that to have a level playing field we had to agree to be bound by much of the existing EU legislation particularly with regard to trade & employment. Some other EU legislation we can get rid off but it's been seen as getting rid of it overnight could cause more difficulties with loop holes it could open.

The standard UK working week is around 40 hours and we all get free health care (ok we pay taxes for it so not exactly free) and education as well (again taxes & some student loans but not too bad terms).

Its what my poor pal Mobers couldn't understand, that essentially we could and would have our cake and eat it. Because the UK import far more than we export to the EU we are too valuable as a trade partner for the EU to not try and come to a free trade agreement, etc.

So essentially we will end up getting much the same as we had before with the EU but we won't be paying for it plus we can eventually do a trade deal with the US. So a crafty move on our part  ;D We should do very well in the end from positioning ourselves well so long as we stay out of the EU.

Already it's paying dividends, we've got AUKUS with the US which could be worth big money helping to build nuclear subs. We've avoided getting hauled up on all this money that Brussels wants as otherwise they would be after us fir that if we were still a member.

So a good move by the UK I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 02, 2023, 11:58:54 AM
MODERN POSITIONAL WARFARE AND HOW TO WIN IN IT
Valerii Zaluzhnyi
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Kyiv, Ukraine

http://infographics.economist.com/2023/ExternalContent/ZALUZHNYI_FULL_VERSION.pdf
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 02, 2023, 01:03:34 PM
 Meanwhile, the State Department, quoting Ukraine’s Institute for Religious Freedom, estimated that Russian forces last year “destroyed, damaged, or looted” nearly 500 religious buildings, theological institutions and sacred sites in Ukraine, disproportionately attacking evangelical Christians, who are estimated to account for only 2 percent of the population. Rusyn’s seminary was hit by six rockets during the early days of the invasion.

Religious leaders across Ukraine have no illusions about the risks of continuing to proclaim their faith as the war rages. “Our pastors have been imprisoned in the occupied places, so for us, it’s clear that we will be at least imprisoned [if Russia wins]. Why we don’t run? Because there is a calling,” Rusyn said.

After Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) spoke with the visiting clerics, the senator posted Tuesday on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter: “Met with group of Ukrainian religious leaders from different faiths [with] 1 message. Most are on Putin’s hit list if he is successful in conquering Ukraine. I agreed to keep them in my prayers.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/02/ukrainian-religious-leaders-russian-threat/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 02, 2023, 02:36:38 PM
what I see...
republicans are EXTREMELY generous with their thoughts and prayers for victims of mass shootings and Russian and Hamas terror persecution, cuz it's just "words"...

but no financial supoort unless congress cuts IRS funding, cuz in truth, they ACTUALLY don't give a flying phuque about anyone except their bilionaire donors who pay them

they don't REALLY even care about the deficit or health care for tens of millions of Americans
the republican party is there only for the oligarch's money, and not for the welfare of the people or country

all you republican voters are gonna get EXACTLY what you deserve, cuz you created what's gonna end up destroying you

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Admin on November 02, 2023, 05:44:53 PM
what I see...
republicans are EXTREMELY generous with their thoughts and prayers for victims of mass shootings and Russian and Hamas terror persecution, cuz it's just "words"...

but no financial supoort unless congress cuts IRS funding, cuz in truth, they ACTUALLY don't give a flying phuque about anyone except their bilionaire donors who pay them

they don't REALLY even care about the deficit or health care for tens of millions of Americans
the republican party is there only for the oligarch's money, and not for the welfare of the people or country

all you republican voters are gonna get EXACTLY what you deserve, cuz you created what's gonna end up destroying you


NO political discourse unless pertaining to the FSU.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2023, 07:20:38 PM
no freedom on this board, means this is my last post here EVER
no replies to this post, cuz I won't even be lookin here anymore
the time to move on from this wasteland is RIGHT NOW!

Title: Second promise ?
Post by: ML on November 04, 2023, 01:14:57 PM
Didn't he promise to do this once before ?
Title: Re: Second promise ?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 04, 2023, 03:10:09 PM
Didn't he promise to do this once before ?
Does it matter?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 05, 2023, 08:43:02 PM
MODERN POSITIONAL WARFARE AND HOW TO WIN IN IT
Valerii Zaluzhnyi
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Kyiv, Ukraine

http://infographics.economist.com/2023/ExternalContent/ZALUZHNYI_FULL_VERSION.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/05/zelenskiy-denies-ukrainian-generals-claim-war-is-at-stalemate

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/04/continued-support-for-ukraine-will-cost-the-west-less-than-letting-putin-win

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/04/zelenskiy-denies-he-is-under-pressure-to-enter-peace-talks-with-russia

http://euromaidanpress.com/2023/11/05/ukrainian-forces-destroy-state-of-the-art-russian-weapon-dubbed-impenetrable-drone-dome/

http://euromaidanpress.com/2023/11/05/satellite-images-show-russian-missile-ship-damaged-by-ukrainian-airstrike-in-occupied-crimea/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2023, 06:21:43 AM
Well here is an interesting article I saw this morning, an update on those Ukrainian men who are doing a runner:

http://www.livemint.com/news/thousands-of-ukrainian-men-are-avoiding-military-service-11699526616865.html

Looks like the present situation sees men leave Ukraine before their 18th birthday lol.

Crafty, I don't blame them though.

My guess is that at some point Ukraine may bring in changes to stop all of these get ours. Possibly make those taking second degrees eligible or ban Ukrainian men from enrollment on second degrees, banning males 16 or over from crossing the Ukrainian border, checking on whether disabled people are really being cared for and making crossing the border a criminal offence, etc.

My guess is that in the end they will be forced to do so as otherwise they will be running out of men at the front which if course spells disaster for them. Quite possibly they might already be finding it difficult to get men up for the front as a lot of the initial enthusiasm has likely dissipated now.

For those here married to Ukrainian wives I would avoid dual citizenship if I were you or if you go to Ukraine you could get called up too ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2023, 11:22:38 AM
In other news it looks like the EU is pushing on with enlarging it's Empire to include Ukraine, etc:

Via Euronews: State of the Union: European Commission says Ukraine should start EU membership talks
http://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/10/state-of-the-union-european-commission-says-ukraine-should-start-eu-membership-talks

I don't think a lot of Ukrainians have caught on to what this actually entails particularly those at the front. As they do the fighting their way of life is likely to be undermined and they are likely to get knifed in the back by the politicians in Ukraine & the EU. As part of being in the EU means accepting all their legislation that also means accepting their 'equal pay legislation' too!

Yep that's right the moment they join the guys fighting at the front or who have fought at the front are going to have to accept less money while the women will get paid more money so that they are both earning the same for doing the same (or similar) type of work. Now that naturally is going to cause havoc and a lot of relationships that were working won't no longer and a lot of youngsters won't be getting together as the women will no longer rate the guys who are now earning the same as them. That as we have seen in the west will cause the population to plummet even further than it currently is in Ukraine and people living miserable lonely lives with just work to go too. Possibly immigrants may be brought in and Ukraine not be so Ukrainian any more.

Whether Ukrainians will get a say in joining I doubt as usually that decision is undemocratically made for them.

Once in the EU that is not all though, Ukraine will have to adopt the Euro which means it can no longer devalue its loans through devaluing it's currency. That as we have seen in Greece is not a good thing, particularly as Ukraine will have a lot of debt. The EU too is amassing huge debt from COVID, supporting Ukraine in its war and the usual fancy projects, etc.

Germany, France & Italy are being called upon to bankroll all of this and they are none to happy about it, they have their own debts and problems. The issue going forward is that with more new members wanting handouts along with the existing ones like Poland, etc will the EUve in a position to hand them out much in the way of money anymore?

I can see a lot of problems on the horizon for the EU if this all goes ahead and I think it could well all end in a big :trainwreck:
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2023, 12:52:04 PM
As part of being in the EU means accepting all their legislation that also means accepting their 'equal pay legislation' too!

Yep that's right the moment they join the guys fighting at the front or who have fought at the front are going to have to accept less money while the women will get paid more money so that they are both earning the same for doing the same (or similar) type of work. Now that naturally is going to cause havoc and a lot of relationships that were working won't no longer and a lot of youngsters won't be getting together as the women will no longer rate the guys who are now earning the same as them.


In the USSR, men and women earned the same pay for the same work.  Traditionally "male" professions, such as trades, earned more than bookkeepers, but a female plumber earned the same salary as a male plumber.  That concept carried on in Ukraine.  So you are absolutely wrong on this.  Perhaps if you expanded your way of thinking, you would see that being paid equally is a positive, not a negative.



Quote
That as we have seen in the west will cause the population to plummet even further than it currently is in Ukraine and people living miserable lonely lives with just work to go too. Possibly immigrants may be brought in and Ukraine not be so Ukrainian any more.


The population plummeted in Soviet times, because it was too expensive to raise children.  That's the case now as well.  People with ties to villages tend to have more children, as they can feed them.

Quote
Whether Ukrainians will get a say in joining I doubt as usually that decision is undemocratically made for them.


Ukrainians overwhelmingly wish to join the EU.
Title: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: 2tallbill on November 11, 2023, 01:37:21 PM
In the USSR, men and women earned the same pay for the same work.  Traditionally "male" professions, such as trades, earned more than bookkeepers, but a female plumber earned the same salary as a male plumber.  That concept carried on in Ukraine.  So you are absolutely wrong on this.  Perhaps if you expanded your way of thinking, you would see that being paid equally is a positive, not a negative.

That is EXACTLY as it should be. Rachel Madcow (as do most feministas) complained that
men made more than women. But used the numbers of men's wages compared to women's
wages without taking into account that more women are office workers, teachers and bank
tellers than engineers, heavy equipment operators and welders or that more women worked
part time or took years off their careers to be at home with their children.  [/quote]


Ukrainians overwhelmingly wish to join the EU.

Citizens of all the Ex-Soviet Union want to. Nobody wants to be Belarus when they could be
Poland or Lithuania.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2023, 04:13:16 PM

In the USSR, men and women earned the same pay for the same work.  Traditionally "male" professions, such as trades, earned more than bookkeepers, but a female plumber earned the same salary as a male plumber.  That concept carried on in Ukraine.  So you are absolutely wrong on this.  Perhaps if you expanded your way of thinking, you would see that being paid equally is a positive, not a negative.




The population plummeted in Soviet times, because it was too expensive to raise children.
  That's the case now as well.  People with ties to villages tend to have more children, as they can feed them.


Ukrainians overwhelmingly wish to join the EU.

Incorrect Counsel! Population increased dramatically during the Soviet Union due to free Social Housing and State support in which to have children, it's only leveled off after the USSR when that support became not as strong due to capitalism rather than socialism, as the population graph on Wikipedia demonstrates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union

Yes in polls taken the majority of Ukrainians want to join the EU BUT that is not an official mandate and so a referendum on the issue should be taken. Furthermore I don't think that most Ukrainians really at all know what they are signing up too in joining the EU. I am pretty sure they have a concept of being all good, their saviour without actually realising what the EU actually entails and how it is going to be different from what they imagined.

Bearing in mind aside from all the legislation etc that they will have to be beholden too they are entering into a EU at which point it's Credit Cards are maxed out and it's net contributors are done one and the remaining ones are going to get squeezed on their finances also. Basically it's going to be entering an EU that is busted while being told what to do by the EU. My feeling is that any current love for the EU will die pretty quickly.

I am pretty definite that most men earn more than most women in Ukraine ;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2023, 04:32:32 PM
I meant in Ukraine. From 1965 on, birth rates in Ukraine were below replacement levels (which are 2.1 live births).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on November 11, 2023, 04:36:09 PM
Hungary and Poland are both in the EU. Neither uses the Euro (Forint and Zloty).
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2023, 06:46:30 PM
I meant in Ukraine. From 1965 on, birth rates in Ukraine were below replacement levels (which are 2.1 live births).

I think you're playing with statistics my dear Boe ;)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2023, 06:54:58 PM
Hungary and Poland are both in the EU. Neither uses the Euro (Forint and Zloty).

You're right Steven they don't use the Euro but they joined the EU before all new members had to use the Euro. So Ukraine will have to use the Euro as the rules currently stand as well after the change of rule date. Adopting the Euro could cause further problems for Ukraine's economy as nearby Poland benefits from a cheaper currency Ukraine will be adopting both a more expensive currency than it presently has and more expensive than the Polish currency, the Polish currency at present being more expensive than the current Ukrainian currency.

My guess is the Ukrainian currency is cheap for a good reason (even before the war it was cheap but now obviously more so) so it's likely to kill exports as it will make them very expensive, do god knows what to labour costs, and who knows what to anything else, government debt costs soaring with income declining perhaps? etc
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2023, 07:05:43 PM
I think you're playing with statistics my dear Boe ;)

Nope. Have a look. Births started dropping in the mid 1960s in Ukraine. They did in the Slavic part of Russia as well. Russia had higher birth rates Ami g its Muslim region.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on November 12, 2023, 03:12:09 AM
The countries that were previously in the Warsaw Pact which subsequently joined the European Union have greatly benefited economically. In 1995 Poland had more or less the same GDP per capita as Russia; in 2021 it was 50% higher.

More countries joining creates a larger internal single market. The world is moving towards large trading blocks - America with Mexico and Canada the dominant one and China fast catching up. The United Kingdom in its infinite wisdom decided its future was trading with Australia and New Zealand rather than countries a few hours lorry drive away...

The European Union has the resources to absorb Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. It's not economics, it's politics that would prevent membership, with Putin's useful idiots in Hungary and the Slovak republic providing noises off.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2023, 06:16:17 AM
The countries that were previously in the Warsaw Pact which subsequently joined the European Union have greatly benefited economically. In 1995 Poland had more or less the same GDP per capita as Russia; in 2021 it was 50% higher.

More countries joining creates a larger internal single market. The world is moving towards large trading blocks - America with Mexico and Canada the dominant one and China fast catching up.
The United Kingdom in its infinite wisdom decided its future was trading with Australia and New Zealand rather than countries a few hours lorry drive away...

The European Union has the resources to absorb Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. It's not economics, it's politics that would prevent membership, with Putin's useful idiots in Hungary and the Slovak republic providing noises off.

Indeed Poland did well because the EU were taking money off us along with Germany, France and Italy and giving it to Poland. Poland was becoming stronger as a result and us weaker. It's no wonder that we went from being able to call an Ambulance and it be with us between 15-30 minutes before Poland & other Eastern bloc nations joined the EU to waiting all day or all night for one not long after they joined. We were being drained of our finances for supporting such and for growing our infrastructure too. The EU is essentially one massive Ponzi scheme it takes money of western countries renames it EU money, gives us back a small amount of it as EU money that was our money anyway then with the rest takes some for Brussels unelected bureaucrats and give themselves big salaries and pensions then sends the rest to East European countries. They use the money to bait poorer East European in to expand their Evil Empire. The EU itself is dangerous like Russia, the bigger they get the more dangerous they become. We just got out as we import from the EU far more than we export so we're in a strong position. Even then we faced bullying from the EU of threats to cut us off from the single market through no Brexit deal which we helped to create. The more the EU expands the bigger clout that they gain to dictate and take power off their members and those around them. The Brussels bureaucracy enjoys being on top and is power hungry. Keeping the EU from its project of dragging in all European nations is key to avoiding loss of all sovereignty and being totally dominated by what they wish to dictate how ever so far that may end up going.

For us in the UK the US trading bloc as you have mentioned Steven provides the key to which to become a major power and economy once again. Instead of just trading with the EU we now have the opportunity to strike a free trade deal with the US also! That would be huge, we would be at the crossroads of two major trading blocks and cumulatively growing our economy off both. We would be seen by industries as the place to be to do business in either trading bloc. The EU saw that in negotiations and did not like it but had little choice due to our import/export position. A US deal will take time, we already have AUKUS that I don't think we would have gotten if we were still in the EU due to the US being skeptical over security concerns with the EU. Biden I think is not so interested in a trade deal with us due to his Irish roots so we'll see who gets in next year.

The UK has already made a good trade deal with Ukraine. I believe that more trade should be done with Ukraine and other non-EU European countries and to come to a consensus about the benefits of being free from the clutches if the EU. I think we could do great trade with these countries and form an informal trading group of countries for those nations that don't wish to be under the control of the EU.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2023, 07:02:06 AM
Incidentally Ukraine has a free trade deal with the EU much akin to the UK's free trade deal with the EU post Brexit. So the Single Market will give them little extra but Ukraine will lose a lot of sovereignty. Ukraine baited in of course by the payments they will receive from the EU. To some extent I understand why Ukraine are having to go that path at present to gain the financial and military support they need, but I don't think they are having the EU on and are pursuing the path to EU membership too doggedly. They would be better not going along with it quite so briskly and then pulling back before it happens.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Steven1971 on November 12, 2023, 09:18:19 AM
Brexit is a slow puncture on the UK economy and the reduction in our GDP because of it is far greater than the small net contribution we used to make to be members. UK companies have much more red tape now. The UK economy also benefited from motivated and talented young East Europeans who came to work in our country. All I worked with were better than a lot of the lazy disinterested Brits we now have to employ.

The EU has nothing to do with the state of the NHS. The problem there is the various private finance initiatives which have saddled trusts with 30 year debts. A mortgage with a credit card.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2023, 11:27:07 AM
Brexit is a slow puncture on the UK economy and the reduction in our GDP because of it is far greater than the small net contribution we used to make to be members. UK companies have much more red tape now. The UK economy also benefited from motivated and talented young East Europeans who came to work in our country. All I worked with were better than a lot of the lazy disinterested Brits we now have to employ.

The EU has nothing to do with the state of the NHS. The problem there is the various private finance initiatives which have saddled trusts with 30 year debts. A mortgage with a credit card.

I agree it was under Tony Blair's government that PFI (and variations off) was used most heavily for the NHS and also Schools which was basically racking up a huge debts on the credit card of the UK government. In addition though the UK has been squeezed giving big contributions to the EU, far more than people think, people think it is a small amount but in reality it is a lot of money each year we were giving. In the last year as a member of the EU 2019-2020 we gave:

"The UK's estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) was £17.0bn in 2020. The UK's public sector received an estimated £4.5bn of funding from the EU in 2020. The UK's net contribution, therefore, was £12.6bn."

14 Jun 2022
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk › ...PDF
The UK's contribution to the EU Budget - UK Parliament

There is a small increase in red tape such as a bit of form filling at ports but I think this will diminish in time as technology improves and the EU and companies see it in their interests to push for it to be minimised. I personally think the small negatives we have pale in comparison to the gains and more importantly the potential gains out there for the UK. Much of the benefits we have kept such as in some of the Employment legislation (i.e 25 days holiday a year, job protections) but we now aren't paying the EU billions of pounds a year like we used to AND can make free trade deals with other nations and tailor those to our needs. EU members can't do that and I think increasingly as time wears on we will see the UK economy benefiting and pulling ahead of Germany as the largest economy in Europe, already there are positive figures reflecting that.

I think for the EU where it went all wrong was taking money from some countries and giving it to others that they termed it EU money in doing so made it all the more offensive like they were treating us like mugs. If they had left it as, 'ok you want to join, you get access to the Single Market and that's about it' I think that would have been better. You know that those countries then want to join because they want to and not because of the money being handed out. After all we don't owe Eastern Europe anything in terms of post Soviet reconstruction that is down to them, or should have been.

Currency is another issue and in fairness all countries, Poland, Hungary and the UK, etc should have had to join the Euro or hold a referendum on leaving so as to create a level playing field. I am quite familiar with the pound so I would have preferred to vote to leave but I understand others don't mind so much.

Anyway that's water under the bridge now, if we were to ever rejoin the EU (I hope not but fear the worst the writing may be on the wall) then we would have to adopt the Euro. Not as bad for us as for poorer nations like Ukraine but still a little inflexible with debts if you need it.

As far as motivated workers are concerned, workers are motivated if there is something to motivate them (carrot and/or stick). The Polish workers could come and work here get their wages in GBP and covert back to the Zlotys back home and do very well, like we do when we go to Ukraine. So a Polish worker could do a basic minimum wage job here and it's earnings in Poland could be the equivalent of a Polish stockbroker or similar. So yes in their position I would feel motivated. Here we give some UK citizens free social housing and benefits on top, so are they going to be motivated to work? Tell them the free housing is from now on only going to be partially free and watch the keenness to work rise! To some extent we have left some people for too long in their social housing situation and their attitudes become lazy with it. It would be better to ease of in the benefits and just them give them a job to start them off. In Ukraine the state can only pay so much and the difference in attitude there for most is quite apparent, a lot more work motivated.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 13, 2023, 07:51:15 PM
ENGin is a global nonprofit building a future in which every young Ukrainian can confidently speak to foreigners in fluent, conversational English. We aim to connect Ukraine to the world in order to propel its postwar reconstruction and longer-term economic & social development.



Our one-of-a-kind program pairs Ukrainian youth with English speakers for free online conversation practice and cross-cultural connection. We work with students age 9-35 and volunteers age 14+.

ENGin pairs English learners with volunteers from around the world to conduct weekly online speaking sessions. Every learner and volunteer is screened to ensure their fit for the program. Participants are then matched based on preferences, interests, and availability to ensure an effective and mutually enjoyable communication experience. After a match is made, ENGin supports learners and volunteers throughout their participation in the program with tips, resources, and problem resolution.

It takes a couple of hours at the beginning for training, an interview, and a short quiz, with a commitment of a minimum of an hour a week for 3 months. However, many ENGin volunteers have enjoyed their experience so much that after a year or more they are still meeting with Ukrainian buddies.

http://enginprogram.org/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2023, 08:52:09 AM
The UK estimates Russia has lost about 300,000 soldiers either killed or casualties since the war began. That's huge and more men than they started with but is probably correct hence them needing ongoing recruitment:

http://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-estimates-over-300000-russian-military-casualties/

My guess is that Ukraine has probably lost at least 200,000 soldiers killed or casualties by comparison by now though quite possibly more. Ukraine has so far kept quiet on their losses but they of course must know how many.


The EU not quite up to production targets for ammunition to Ukraine:

Via Euronews: EU countries failing to meet ammunition production demands for Ukraine

http://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/14/eu-countries-failing-to-meet-ammunition-production-demands-for-ukraine


Ukraine using a shocking 45,000 artillery shells a week, guess shows how active this war is on an ongoing basis.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 16, 2023, 12:11:17 AM
http://youtu.be/7xh6UnyyWx8

http://youtu.be/atb7_zrVTqM
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 18, 2023, 11:00:20 AM
Just posting a update on the situation on the ground out in Ukraine. This article states the current state of play out there, it's pretty much stalemate and hard going as we press on into winter with neither side looking like they will achieve any significant gain over the winter months:

http://www.voanews.com/a/british-defense-ministry-cites-intense-ground-combat-in-ukraine-/7360471.html

If anyone has any other news on such please post up.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2023, 06:40:14 PM
Looks like the takeover of Europe is underway!

Not so likely Russia but by the EU:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1837567/eu-superstate-germany-guy-verhofstadt

The plan is to centralise power in the EU from EU nation states thereby reducing them to vassalage to the EU!

Poland's Law & Justice party see the plot and they are not happy. A real danger now that the Nations of Europe that are in the EU will have their power to self rule & sovereignty taken away from them. Does Ukraine know what it is heading into? If not taken over by Russia then the EU seeks to take control of their country along with the rest of them!
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 23, 2023, 12:08:40 PM
Looks like Holland are making their bolt for the door while they still can, they're going wild for Wilders over there.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on November 24, 2023, 05:28:58 PM
http://euromaidanpress.com/2023/11/24/texty-russia-made-over-5-bn-on-stolen-harvest-in-occupied-ukraine/

http://euromaidanpress.com/2023/11/23/the-russian-trace-in-the-polish-trucker-border-blockade/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 26, 2023, 01:09:34 PM
Krimster, ML, all,

I need help to exchange usd or sgd currency for rubles. I'm unable to physically go to Russia at the moment for legal reasons. Practically, I will require someone trustworthy who has a ruble bank account in Russia. I send you usd to your usd bank account, then my girl receives ruble from your ruble bank account. The amount wouldn't be much, maybe ~70,000 rub for this operation.

My girl has been struggling financially in Russia and I need to send her some money to help her cover at least some expenditures the next couple of months. This is exacerbated by the fact that both her mom and pop have seen their incomes dry up spectacularly, particularly mom, the breadwinner who has been forced by her employer to take holidays as her employer's factory runs out of parts (literally furlough).

It's another long story why I haven't brought her out of Russia after all this time. In case anyone's wondering, yes it's the same girl all these years and yes I don't normally send her money. Fully appreciate anyone who can viably lend a hand.

Hey Kyn, how did it go with your girl sending the money? Did you ever get it together in the end or is her Mother still running her life?
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 13, 2023, 12:01:42 AM
Well for the moment I will post the odd update just in case there is any interest:

Latest bring that Zelensky has so far failed in his bid to convince Congress (mainly Republicans as I understand it) to send further aid & military assistance to Ukraine:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/12/zelensky-biden-meeting-washington-dc/

From the article it looks like an attempt by Republicans to get something done on immigration in return. My guess is that they aren't necessarily for the most part against further aid to Ukraine but are using it as a ploy to try and get what they want done on illegal immigration.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 13, 2023, 12:08:13 AM
The other news potentially on the horizon or not is, 'Whether Ukraine will hold Presidential Elections next year in 2024?'

Apparently it would be around March/April time like Russia's but as this article states under Martial Law Presidential Elections are prohibited:

http://visitukraine.today/blog/2863/will-there-be-presidential-elections-in-ukraine-in-2024-and-who-can-become-a-candidate

That said the West is likely to feel that Ukraine should be compelled to have Presidential Elections possibly with support on the line if it does not. As otherwise it smacks of a an undemocratic system of government with some possibly drawing comparisons to Putin and be asking, 'What is the difference?'
Title: Republicans in both House and Senate will pass aid to Ukraine . . . I think
Post by: ML on December 13, 2023, 03:11:20 PM
Republicans in both House and Senate will pass aid to Ukraine . . . I think.

They see finally that they have great leverage to make significant changes in immigration policy since Biden desperately (correctly so) wants aid for Ukraine and Israel.

Republicans want:
1) new asylum limits
2) subjecting more undocumented immigrants to a fast-track deportation process
3) a national expulsion authority — similar to a Covid-era restriction that permitted border authorities to swiftly turn away migrants at the US-Mexico border
4) reduction of the president’s parole authority, which allows migrants to temporarily live in the US on a case-by-case basis
5) subjecting anyone released in the US to electronic monitoring, including children
6) a “safe third” country provision that would bar asylum seekers who passed through other countries
7)
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 20, 2023, 09:52:04 AM
Well both finance packages from the US and the EU now currently held up leaving Ukraine wondering if they will ever get anything much more from either.

Current thinking in Ukraine now focuses on whether to conscript more soldiers:

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-12-20/ukrainian-army-proposal-to-call-up-more-civilians-gets-mixed-reaction-in-kyiv

It doesn't look likely that many people will volunteer these days like in the first year if war. The stalemate and bloody situation now is in stark contrast to the victories won in the first year if the war and there seems little likelihood to share in the glory if no victories just pointless random loss of life by artillery etc.

My guess is that this announcement that they are considering a new draft could well be a way of floating the notion out there to prepare people in advance for it, so it doesn't come as a big of a surprise when it finally gets confirmed and face as big a backlash and outcry as a result.

Probably many people that may do a runner when this shit hits the fan, my favourite topic and past time hobby :D

Not sure where CB is these days, such an avid supporter of Ukraine when it was doing so well in the early stages of the war :-\
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 20, 2023, 12:41:18 PM
This year, Ukraine officially celebrates it's first Christmas on the 25th December like the rest of us in the West and no longer on the 7th January.

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainians-prepare-first-wartime-christmas-new-calendar-2023-12-20/

So I assume a end to two Christmas's for many with Ukrainian partner's. Whether that is considered a good or bad thing is another matter of course.

So continuing the process of eliminating Russian culture from Ukraine. For me Christmas on the 7th January always seemed a bit weird so I'm happy enough with one Christmas and on the usual day I've grown up with in the 25th. Not sure I could take two Christmas's a year for too long.

I personally see eliminating Russian culture as a good thing for Ukraine and for foreigners as myself as it makes it easier to see Ukraine as having it's own culture and less likely to see it as one and the same, or nearly the same.

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 21, 2023, 10:10:40 AM
Recent article highlighting another area that the Ukrainian Government is looking at to get new recruits/conscripts to the front:

http://www.kyivpost.com/post/25783#:~:text=He%20revealed%20that%20discussions%20are,report%20to%20AFU%20conscription%20points.

Not sure what sanctions they are thinking off. I'm guessing it wouldn't work very well as it's the reason they have buggered off in the first place. I doubt many if any will return as a result but probably more to satisfy those at home unhappy over others being a bit quick witted and getting out abroad.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 21, 2023, 10:13:02 AM
Looks like the UK's Storm Shadow Cruise Missiles are still working wonders for Ukraine. Good one country is still supporting Ukraine ;D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 23, 2024, 02:27:35 AM
Gives a possible idea of the state of the UK's tank fleet:

http://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/11/26/uk-stores-unused-900-cold-war-chieftain-and-180-challenger-2-tanks/

The Challenger 2 was fine in the day of the Iraq war, etc but that was a fair old while back now. I just wonder if part of the reason we only gave Ukraine 14  Challenger 2's is because we only had that many operationally running! It can take a lot of time, effort and most of all money to keep a tank fleet operational. What are the chances that it's also seen as an easy area to save money on in peacetime.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on January 24, 2024, 10:20:08 AM
A large Russian military transport plane has crashed in the border region of Belgorod, according to Russia’s defence ministry, killing all 74 people on board.

The ministry said the Ilyushin Il-76 aircraft was carrying 65 Ukrainian PoWs who were to be swapped. The Guardian could not immediately verify Russian claims of who was onboard and the cause of the crash was not yet known.

The ministry added that onboard the Ilyushin Il-76 were also six crew and three Russian servicemen.

Ukraine has not directly commented on the incident. Mykhailo Podolyak, a Ukrainian presidential adviser, told Reuters: “Comments will come a little later. Time is needed to clarify all the data.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/24/russian-plane-carrying-ukrainian-pows-has-crashed-moscow-says
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on February 12, 2024, 11:55:28 AM
http://youtu.be/utAfnUkXEhk
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on February 23, 2024, 10:21:07 PM
Stand with Ukraine world rallies February 24.

Together with Ukrayinska Pravda, a leading Ukrainian media outlet, the Ukrainian World Congress has created an interactive StandWithUkraine world map that identifies countries, cities, and locations where peaceful rallies will take place on February 24, 2024.

http://standwithukraineworld.ukrainianworldcongress.org/

http://klych.org/believe-in-ukraine#partners-1
Scroll down page for US sites.

http://standwithukraine.ukrainianworldcongress.org/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Grumpy on February 25, 2024, 07:49:42 AM
Watch on youtube

http://youtu.be/WyYn5meNmBY
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2024, 01:34:29 PM
All the time Russia is advancing, all the time Russia is losing. They are being played by the West into thinking they are gaining victories, but they are doing so at a heavy cost. Once Russia runs low on Armaments and has not enough money to buy enough more they will have a problem on their hands.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: ML on February 25, 2024, 07:01:21 PM
All the time Russia is advancing, all the time Russia is losing. They are being played by the West into thinking they are gaining victories, but they are doing so at a heavy cost. Once Russia runs low on Armaments and has not enough money to buy enough more they will have a problem on their hands.
Russia is not going to run low on armaments as they are producing a lot of their own now.  Its economy is in full war mode production as I understand it . . . while the west is not replenishing its armament stock.

I did hear one commentator mention briefly today that Russia is spending down its currency reserves and gold on this war production and purchases from Iran, China and North Korea.  So that's supposed to have an impact at some point down the road.
Title: Europe Has More to Fear Than Trump
Post by: ML on February 26, 2024, 12:22:24 PM
Europe Has More to Fear Than Trump

Decades of complacency have left the Continent vulnerable and dependent on American protection.

Europeans fear Donald Trump’s return to the White House, and who can blame them after he said he’d “encourage” the Russians to “do whatever the hell they want” to allies who don’t pay enough for their defense? Yet that comment should wake up those in Europe who think that U.S. reservoirs of resources and will are infinite. Mr. Trump reflects a growing American frustration with many allies that refuse to face the harsh international reality: that rivals are arming rapidly, and the only guarantee of security remains a large, and perhaps unsustainable, U.S. military expenditure.

Europe has enjoyed a decadeslong vacation from the obligation of any polity: security. The benign international conditions of the 1990s and early 2000s seemed to be a prelude to a peaceful global community. Now it’s clear that progress toward global harmony isn’t happening, and nourishing such illusions is dangerous.

Some, especially on Europe’s eastern front line, have fully awakened to the reality of competition and war. But others, such as Germany and Italy, spend well below 2% of gross domestic product on defense—with the bulk of that money going toward personnel rather than weapons. If European politicians think that Russia is a serious threat, they should push for massive spending on defense and a mobilization of their societies including some form of conscription, regardless of what a U.S. presidential candidate says. Those in Europe who fret that the Continent is in danger but then ask the U.S. to protect it at high cost are covering up their unwillingness to make hard choices.

The solution isn’t the European Union. Much of the rhetoric in Europe pre-emptively condemning a future Trump presidency is a useful cover for those in love with the idea of European strategic autonomy. If Mr. Trump will abandon Europe, then the only salvation, they think, is a reinvigorated EU with not only a common coin and market but also a common army, centralized weapons procurement, shared defense industry and an EU-level military command.

There is a reason this hasn’t happened. Europe’s nations don’t want it. Portugal doesn’t care about Poland’s border. Estonia isn’t preoccupied with Sicily. Berlin would rather do business with Moscow than fight for Suwałki, Poland. Paris or Rome won’t place their aspirations of grandeur or their business interests in the hands of a Central European leader, even one domesticated by EU ambitions. There is no feasible alternative for European states other than to shore up their own national forces.

Europe should fear its enemies. An aggressive Russia pushing westward won’t stop even after Vladimir Putin is out of power. Over the past 10 years, Russia has increased its defense spending by 300%, while EU countries have increased theirs by only 20%. The quality of Western weapons may be better, but the war in Ukraine shows that quantity also matters. Russia is producing 20 to 30 new tanks a month, while Germany will get 18 new Leopard tanks in 2025. The U.K. has around 40 tanks that are ready to be deployed.

Add to this grim picture the instability of Europe’s southern frontier, likely to become worse as demographic pressures in Africa and Asia exacerbate the northward migration flow. This is a problem that won’t be solved by international development organizations. It requires an investment in security, from maritime interdiction to stabilization of North Africa, all of which involve men, ships, planes and ammunition.

Finally, Europe should be afraid of a weak U.S. president. Joe Biden has 11 months left in his administration. If we take the past three years as an indication of what he may do, Europe faces serious risks. So far the Biden administration has abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban, has willfully dragged on the war in Ukraine by spoon-feeding Kyiv with enough arms not to be overwhelmed by Russia but not enough to defeat it, and has entered into a war with Iran and its proxies without a clear vision of victory.

All this bodes ill for Europe. Mr. Biden wants to avoid a presidential election in the shadow of wars. He has a strong interest to strike a deal with Russia, regardless of what this may mean for Ukraine. The inability of Congress to agree to fund the next batch of weapons for Ukraine—caused in part by the Democrats’ insistence on ignoring the crises on the U.S. southern border—is helpful for Mr. Biden as it reduces American exposure to the war and prepares the conditions for freezing the conflict. Ukraine—and, with it, European security—is at risk of being sacrificed well before Inauguration Day 2025.

Europeans should be afraid. But the primary object of their fear is more immediate. They should arm themselves regardless of what a U.S. president, or a presidential candidate, says.

Mr. Grygiel is a professor at the Catholic University of America, a senior advisor at the Marathon Initiative and a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution.

   
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2024, 12:44:29 PM
Russia is not going to run low on armaments as they are producing a lot of their own now.  Its economy is in full war mode production as I understand it . . . while the west is not replenishing its armament stock.

I did hear one commentator mention briefly today that Russia is spending down its currency reserves and gold on this war production and purchases from Iran, China and North Korea.  So that's supposed to have an impact at some point down the road.

True but those armaments still need to be paid for, the resources to buy the raw materials in still cost, etc. As you state Russia is running down it's currency reserves and gold basically to fund the war and procure these armaments. Once these currency and gold reserves run out and Russia can't take on any more debt then it will have a problem getting more armaments. Statistic I saw the other day was that western economies collectively outmatch Russia's economy by 28 times I think it was. What's the betting they are sitting back carefully drip feeding Ukraine armaments and finance knowing that Russia will eventually exhaust it's economy and armaments. The UK in WWII nearly exhausted it's economy fighting Nazi Germany along with the allies. It was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy near the end and in the few years thereafter. Our Putler can't keep up the war forever more, Russia's economy will become exhausted at some point, WWI shows us that Russia is beatable and can only stay in the fight so long before it all starts to fall apart.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on February 26, 2024, 02:05:54 PM
somebody "hold my beer" 
Trump will steal every cent from the RNC to pay off his legal bills, leaving nothing but a bare cupboard for republican congressional races that they all lose as a result!!!!!
the whole party will FAIL because of this!!!
OH MY!!!!!

this is Orange Jesus's America!!!
and in Orange Jesus America, Orange Jesus crucifies you!!!!
middle fingers to other Republicans (RINOs ahahahaha)

which Dear gentle RWD readers
in january leaves us with a democratic president, house and senate!!!!  who then increase the size of the supreme court by adding liberal judges
Democrats then pass legislation turning illegals into legals, resulting in a huge Democratic voter base
Biden diverts Russian money combined with US aid to Ukraine including no limits on weapon range, Russia is bleeding to death men and equipment on the battlefield, day after day after day

SO, after defeating Trump, sleepy Joe, devastates Phutin without a single American casualty
what a STUD Biden is!!!!

Israel doesn't give a matso ball what US public opinion is...only the US cares
HAMAS is already dead!!!

The Global Jihad ain't comin like they planned on....cuz they see the ticket price to this fight is WAY higher than what they thought they were gonna pay
more than half the buildings in gaza destroyed/damaged and 30,000 dead and no food
this sticker shock silenced the West Bank and neighboring arab states into not joining the party like they were supposed to...  oh my...
certainly ain't gonna escalate to the point of effecting the oil markets like Oct 7 was supposed to do
Putin will not get his money to Hamas back that he paid right before the attack transferred in bitcoin through Garantex
(PS you Russians can't do ANYTHING with bitcoin without me and the Feds knowing about it!! cuz we use the same tools, phuqueing pridorki)

next year, is REALLY, REALLY gonna suck being a Russian, Borgoi Moy!!
I mean the age limit for entry to the Russian Army was ALREADY raised to 70!!!!  (there must be 20-30 70 yr olds at most in all of Russia, based on what i've seen!)
with Combat Walkers and Canes and dentures sharpened to points!!!
shuffle to VICTORY!!!

The war slowly winds down as the last elderly Russian and Ukrainian men slowly aprroach each other swords in hand

Russia has been ruled by a group of Putin body doubles for over 8 years now, the actual Putin is dead
the average Putin body double only works for a few years and is then replaced by another....
not sure how much longer they can keep this up....
Russia's tenuous existence is predicated on Trump winning in Nov steering the US out of the war....

but...
if Biden and the democrats win
then the excrement has hit the reciprocating cooling device
and Putin will have to resort to some form of "EXTREME MEASURES" which will be implemented next year, but are being planned on NOW!!

so my expectation, is no big changes this year, but if democrats win

Putin's Options

1. WMD options, nuclear, Novichok A-236 (my favorite Novichok, what's yours?)
2. mass mobilization and production, i.e. "Total War" like WWII

Weird thought: Nobody knows what Novichok actually smells like except for Navalny, cuz they only other ones who've smelled it - are dead!! and now he's dead!!!
who came up with the idea pf putting Novichok in undewear????
A Russian of course - undoubtedly from KAMERA, tryin to show off their SKILLZ
Смерть Шпионам!!!!

Starry, starry Novichok
look up in the summer sky
the Iskander tracks way up high




russian military prefers binary novichoks
cuz they can be used in dumb munitions by untrained/unmotivated careless soldiery with less danger of them killing themselves
Novichok window of opportunity is primarily May-Sept
Novichok Artillery, Rockets, Cruise missiles
need to deploy min 100 tons per week of Novichok in mass and small atatacks 1600 tons for the whole Novichok season - to de-nazify 16,000 sq kilometers
imagine a dead city - people, dogs, birds, insects, any living thing with a nervous system, they just all dropped dead at the same time


Ukraine has ZERO to counter-attack with and almost no chemical protection


if NATO launches a conventional attack on Russian forces as punishment
then Russia soaks a major Ukrainian city in Novichok killing THOUSANDS, and tells NATO, do it again, go ahead, I DARE YOU!!!

then NATO countries put sanctions on russian cheese instead

this is where things are gonna head next year in Ukraine
I'd get as much Russin cheese now as you can and stockpile it!!
have you EVER had American cheese? quelle horrour!!

whatcha want is some of them powdermilk biscuits with melted russian cheese on top
served to you by a prettty smiling village girl...
with some Krimskaya Koffee Mountain Grown in Costa Rica from a Hybrid cross species Coffea Arabica-Erythoxylon coca hybrid with a broad alkaloid profile
developed by a Russian botanist.....
this is $100 pound coffee my friends, sells out in 24 hours
the only places I can legally sell mate de coffee is in central and south america where mate de coca is sold...
I could easily get a higher price here in boutique coffee shops, and yes you WILL test positive for cocaine if you drink this coffee!!!  each cup has 50 mg coca alkaloids!!
this hybrid was developed from quality Jamaican Arabica beans and  Bolivian high mountain Erythoxylon selected for potency
using modern plant cellular fusion for cross species pollination




 

Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 29, 2024, 12:15:38 PM
Latest from Putler is more threats to nuke the West:

http://www.gbnews.com/news/world/vladimir-putin-russia-nato-nuclear-war

I personally wonder if the West is now complacent in it's Nuclear threat planning. Not just Governments but also the people.

In Europe in particular I do not yet see any hurry to dig and build Nuclear Bunkers, not from individuals or from Governments. In the UK in particular there is little to no operational bunkers in any fit state. The number of Government/Public bunkers are few and far between and it's questionable if the Public would have access if indeed they could get to them in time. Private individuals I get the impression that there are extremely few private bunkers in the UK. This I think all contrasts greatly with the bunker building in the Cold War era where in some parts it was almost a fashionable trend.

I think most people are just thinking it won't happen so not worth the bother, don't care if they get obliterated or are just unaware!

Well a few in the UK survived Novichok from the Salisbury incident so don't know if they could tell of the smell. Pretty dangerous stuff though.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 01, 2024, 01:26:44 PM
in Russia, war hybridizes you!
bullying, intimidating threats, disinformation are all VERY cost-effective methods of non-symetrical hybrid warfare that Russia excels in, and of course you let the Western Media amplify the threats for you!!! Klassne!! 
deception is a  Russian virtue and not a vice like the west

http://publicintelligence.net/awg-russian-new-warfare-handbook/

Putin needs to save money now, he lost a billion USD worth of aircraft in Febuary
the war cut Russia's financial reserves in half, necessitating a just announced tax increase
most provincial oblasts have had their budgets cut by 30%, reducing health,education,housing infrastructure expenditures, to fund the war, cities have handed over half their municipal buses for ammo delivery, civilian hospitals taken over for overflowing military wounded

there is no sacrifice too great for the Russian people to make on Putin's behalf in his effort to Make Russia Great Again (MRGA!)
you want a half million of our sons dead or wounded? here ya go!
ya want us to wear rags and eat garbage? count us in!!

Trump and Putin are nothin but "wrecking balls"
and the best way to defeat them, is to direct their energy in such a way, that they end up WRECKIN THEIR OWN POWER
Trump has ALREADY DESTROYED his business empire through his own actions
and like Putin, Trump's ONLY business is FRAUD
and now Trump needs to suck as much money as he can from the republican party
which will lead to it's collapse
while Putin does the same to Russia

so let Ukraine grind down Russia until there's nothin left but the same empty void that there's gonna be in Trump Towers
and let Trump scam/grift the republican party to make it as bankrupt as he is
until Putin's Russia and the MAGA party shrinks to a small enuff size that Biden can drown them BOTH TOGETHER in the same dirty bathtub (he's old, but DEADLY...just watch this Nov...)
and if things turn out right, this can ALL happen by next year! SLOVO!
and it will be GLORIOUS!!!!

the FSB/GRU are staffed by pridorki

a proferssional woulda honey potted Hunter Biden into ACTUALLY taking $$$ instead of Simonov's lame frame-up, which didn't hold up under scrutiny, and the FBI figured it all out and put Siminov's ass in jail
 it would've been trivial to do the smart thing, but Russians did the dumb thing...
if they had done the smart thing, then they could've leveraged that into hooking Hunter Biden's Dad, they coulda easily done that as well
but now...
they realize they phuqued up that little "character assassination".... it failed...
Siminov wasn't the little Oswald that the Russians hoped for
comparing Oswald to Siminov, it woulda been like if Oswald forgot to load his rifle!!
it's so hard to get good help these days!!

meanwhile, MAGA dumb phuques, enjoy that last bit of Jonestown Kool-Aid this November
and then go lay down somewhere with a slip of paper with your ID and funerary preferences....

erstwhile...
El Nino is a comin
I predict that the end of this summer, there will be MASSIVE, MASSIVE fires in the Russian Far East bigger than ANYTHING seen before
and the one I was in a few years ago was insane, thosands of sq miles choked with thick smoke
then after the fire, and first rain the mosquito's come
I've seen cattle killed by mosquitos in Siberia
I had to wear a beekeeper's hat and clothes, repellant doesn't work at all
you have to wash your clothes twice to get the smoke smell out





BTW,
if ukraine passes dual citizenship announced by Zelensky a few weeks ago, my wife and I intend to get Ukrainian citizenship
my family already had Israeli and costa rican residency
the 'mo choices, the better, for when the debt bomb explodes the US economy in about 10 yrs or so
and we gotta get out

i'd definitely like to invest in post war ukraine and hang out some with Ukr hackers!!

right now I'd probably have a blast hangin out with the drone makers in Odesa, but everyone got really pissed with me, when I started to talk about it
so I guess...not...

I feel old and useless now, a weird feeling
but I gotta lotta work to do, to GTF outta Texas into a better climate and I ain't just talkin 'bout the weather....

I have a scheme to sell all my rentals without paying taxes on profit, but it means I gotta move into each house and make it a temporary residence before sellin (at least on paper!)

I'm lookin at property in several areas, I want to buy a small family farm and live completely off-grid
several states DO NOT put property taxes on farms, and so living on a working farm is the way to go

NO utilities
NO taxes
NO insurance (everything is solid steel beam and concrete, underground)

I intend to grow Hemp and produce CBD Delta8 products, and can hide half my income from income taxes this way

this is how I'm gonna survive the future that's coming with WEIMAR Amerika
self sufficiency combined with escape plans if needed

there are only two possible outcomes to the debt bomb - so I need to convert $$$ into income producing assets that will survive the major dollar financial transition/collapse that HAS to come in the future














Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 02, 2024, 03:41:02 AM
[quote author=krimster2 link=topic=22223.msg570924#msg570924 date=1709324804
BTW,
if ukraine passes dual citizenship announced by Zelensky a few weeks ago, my wife and I intend to get Ukrainian citizenship
my family already had Israeli and costa rican residency
the 'mo choices, the better, for when the debt bomb explodes the US economy in about 10 yrs or so
and we gotta get out

i'd definitely like to invest in post war ukraine and hang out some with Ukr hackers!!

right now I'd probably have a blast hangin out with the drone makers in Odesa, but everyone got really pissed with me, when I started to talk about it
so I guess...not...

I feel old and useless now, a weird feeling
but I gotta lotta work to do, to GTF outta Texas into a better climate and I ain't just talkin 'bout the weather....

I have a scheme to sell all my rentals without paying taxes on profit, but it means I gotta move into each house and make it a temporary residence before sellin (at least on paper!)

I'm lookin at property in several areas, I want to buy a small family farm and live completely off-grid
several states DO NOT put property taxes on farms, and so living on a working farm is the way to go

NO utilities
NO taxes
NO insurance (everything is solid steel beam and concrete, underground)

I intend to grow Hemp and produce CBD Delta8 products, and can hide half my income from income taxes this way

this is how I'm gonna survive the future that's coming with WEIMAR Amerika
self sufficiency combined with escape plans if needed

there are only two possible outcomes to the debt bomb - so I need to convert $$$ into income producing assets that will survive the major dollar financial transition/collapse that HAS to come in the future
[/quote]

If I ever married a Ukrainian girl I would probably go for Legally Permanent Resident and avoid Dual Citizenship. From what I see you get all the perks of Citizenship without being able to vote in Ukraine, and who really cares about that without risk of downsides/being caught unawares. For me if I became a Ukrainian Dual who's to say they wouldn't try to conscript me for the front? - unlikely may be but if they are out of cannon fodder and don't no longer care how old, how decrepit, and see guys that don't live in Ukraine all the time anyway who knows? Then there is whatever they may do while abroad, invite letters, sanctions if invites aren't accepted for this, that and the other. A Permanent Resident they don't have the legal power over like they do a citizen as they are not a citizen. In the case of any offspring I would prefer legal permanent resident also to avoid them having such issues also.

In the UK my Father used to work with a guy who used to build houses live in them for 6 months to avoid the tax before selling them. He did very well out of it and became very wealthy. It's probably not so easy these days as building regs have gone through the roof and there is a lot more material build up in each house constructed as a result. So a lot of what would have been profit goes out in the extra cost of building materials and the time & cost of labour to fit it.

Taxes and Utilities are definitely something to try and avoid. In the UK my Mother just got her latest Water Bill, set by rateable value and being in one of the more expensive parts of the UK it's almost £1k for the year. She can move to a water meter but if she uses a lot of water that can be more, as she's a keen gardener there is a big question mark over that one and once you move to a water meter you can't move back. She has a rainwater butt but unless really going to town on that stuff she might end up paying more plus it can affect resale value of the house if a family want to buy it, i.e many people = more water usage = more cost.

I think it makes sense to have many plans for a Nuclear/Neutron bomb or other incidents. A bunker if in the UK or US, EU, etc makes sense, but also somewhere to go after the radiation has decreased to tolerable levels to get out of the place to a country not hit by Nukes, etc. Either that or live in countries not likely to be hit by Nukes permanently if you are able. In the event of a Nuclear type of strike there is limited time and either a short warning or none at all. If none at all then you don't likely want to be in big Cities but out in the countryside where time is more likely to be on your side and the impact of it all not as immediate unless unlucky. Possibly worst case scenario is being out in the car or out and about when it strikes and being able to find shelter or haul ass back to your Bunker quick enough. Best case scenario is being near your bunker at the time or being in a safe country abroad at the time.

I think it is good at your age or any age Krim to have something on the go however big or small. Better to do something worthwhile and have an aim or vision then vegetate, waste yourself and go downhill. So long as in reasonable health I think doing nothing is a killer in old age, sure you don't want to take on too much that can be also but too far to doing nothing just destroys the person I think.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 02, 2024, 04:21:58 AM
With post war Ukraine it looks like in terms of actual Construction is that it's all going to be fostered out as the joke goes lol. Norman Foster already seems to have his foot in the door and the big finance company's BlackRock, JP Morgan, etc that are amassing massive investment look set to dominate. Guys like Foster are likely already have in glove with them with agreements already in principle made behind closed doors. The tendering process is likely a mere formality for them.

Foster has already signalled an interest in redesigning Kharkiv in the vision of the great Foster perhaps with a statue of himself as the centre piece, turtle neck pullover and all :D

I doubt anyone else will get a look in as far as Construction is concerned. Rebuilding the existing Cities seems to be decided upon by the powers that be. If you can't somehow get a piece of the action by joining them then the only other way and more risky is to jump them and get Constructing in Ukraine now. That is a very uncertain thing though there's the risk of destruction of the build by bombs, Russian takeover, etc

My guess is that after the war if Ukraine survives then it may possibly come about that all State Housing in Ukraine is 'privatised' and sold off to US investors, probably handed over to BlackRock etc to pay for the war, they will 'manage' it and existing residents will have to pay them to continue living there. My guess is that post war the risk for many Ukrainians is that they will not enjoy the sweet delights of a victory but rather feel the shafting up the bum.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 02, 2024, 08:47:36 AM
Istoria 2024
http://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.167064/gov.uscourts.nvd.167064.15.0.pdf
In October 2023, SMIRNOV had in-person conversations with RUSSIAN OFFICIAL 1 overseas. During these conversations, RUSSIAN OFFICIAL 1 discussed his knowledge and seeming control of two groups of Russian operatives who were previously tasked with the assassination of a high-ranking official of COUNTRY C. RUSSIAN OFFICIAL 1 offered to stop the assassination efforts in exchange for certain things, including an agreement by COUNTRY C to stop targeting civilian-family members of certain Russian officials living in Moscow

Country C = Ukraine

Istoria 1963
Oswald meets with KGB political assassination expert Valery Vladimirovich Kostikov in Mexico City


Phutin's Plan
'yo homies...
Phutin is gearin up for a summer offensive with the goal of breaking through the line of contact and expanding it
there will be "incidents" involving the use of chemical weapns, including a "false flag" operation they blame on Ukraine involving the destruction of Ukrainian industrial chemicals that spread toxic gas that kills Russian soldiers...
Guess what happens after that?
Bedonkydonk Novichok-A236 on a limited basis near the industrial accident as "response"
and watch reaction from NATO....
and proceed from there....

estwhile in Kiev...
Russians are supporting and promoting anti-zelensky activities related to conscription to try and derail it, more political engineering a la hybrid warfare


I have lotsa hobbies, and moving is gonna be a big multi-year project
but I'm not "workin" any more for ANYONE, and i'm finding it hard to give up that life and live quietly
OTOH, i've started to develop a guilt complex for all the bad things I did in Russia, but it was all the fault of Russians, but still
there are certain images that will always stick with me

Today, the opportunities I'd have in Israel and Russia are staggering, but I gotta let it all go
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2024, 06:29:28 AM
Lithuania seems to think that Russia will have enough resources to keep going for the next two years at current war intensity:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-can-fight-ukraine-least-two-years-lithuania-says-2024-03-07/

Article on the current drive to get enough ammunition to Ukraine to try and help counter Russia's upcoming Spring/Summer Offensive:

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/inside-europes-drive-get-ammunition-ukraine-russia-advances-2024-03-06/
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2024, 12:07:27 PM
Here's an article on the state of the situation at present for Ukraine:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255490

Apparently, Ukrainian troops at the front are exhausted and depleted but unlike at the start of the war men aren't so willing to join up unsurprisingly. Without a dramatic victory in sight and the horrors of the front line becoming known Ukrainian men are understandably not so eager.  Mind you if some Conscription dude rocked up to me in the street with a plastic false arm and ask me to join up it wouldn't inspire me with confidence either.

However, if more men aren't willing to go to the front the risk is that Ukraine will have too few men to hold the Russians back and they may break through and win the war, then the likelihood is that they will be inflicting rapings on the women there like the stuff they did in Bucha and elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2024, 08:04:34 AM
four dead in Luhkoil baby
they're finally on their own
gotta get down, baby...
chorny plosh are coming
shoulda been gone long ago

Yalky Palky the Whiteboard's Chalky
Old Skool War Profiteers were "Industrialists"
Novo Skool = ????

Bizness Plan
1. HD FPV Video drones with warhead - sell an "experience" of killing actual Russian soldiers for $$$ on a Russian soldier hunting safari in Ukraine through an online video interface that you control, all major credit cards accepted

2. AID Delivery Volunteer for Ukraine - fund raise to deliver aid to sick and elederly ukrainians, make videos of delivering aid, you MUST have a cat that you feature in the videos that LATER gets killed by Russian shelling!!!
and more...

PS
Russian plan to divide Ukrainian leadership worked PERFECTLY!!!
Russians manipulated Zaluzhnyi's people and his removal led to an increase in chaos
which is ALWAYS Russia's goal, to increase disorder
this has cleard the way for Russian moles to tunnel through
and bag some major juicy treats
and there are TWO assassin teams in kyiv ALWAYS waiting for Zelensky's security team to make a mistake

in the future, you just tell the drone what you want...
"blow up any tanks you see, otherwise come back home" wizzzzzzzzzzzzz
and eventually, it's just gonna be one drone tellin another what to do, no hu-mans involved
which is a perfect matchup to the declining number of soldiers in western militaries
a convergence

nuclear ICBMs
we don't have no ICBMs, we don't need no stinkin ICBMs
when you can use hundreds of tesla auto-pilot cars and a starlink terminal add a chemical/biological warhead and take out any country you want





Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2024, 12:44:06 AM
A really good article here looking at Russia's dwindling supplies of mainly Soviet Armaments in it's old Soviet Armaments Storage bases. Russia continues to suffer huge losses on the battlefield of men and armaments as it tries to press home it's attacks on Ukraine. It can't resupply it's army with enough new Armaments it makes or Armaments bought in from Iran, North Korea, etc:

http://jamestown.org/program/russia-exhausts-soviet-era-arms-storage-bases/

Looks like the West's plan of exhausting Russia's ability to wage war is starting to work. Once Russia has exhausted it's Armaments it will no longer be able to use bully boy tactics of bringing huge numbers of Artillery to bear to pound each opponent into submission. Those days will be long gone for it.

The Article reckons that Russia will be exhausting it's Armaments by about 2025 if not sooner. It looks like Trump is going to walk it to becoming President again and it's questionable whether he will back Ukraine. However, by the time of his inauguration in early 2025, Russia might not be far off being obviously exhausted anyway in Armaments on the battlefield at its ability to succeed on the ground with a conventional Army severely stunted. If Russia looks to be that way then support from the EU/UK, Europe alone could be enough keep Ukraine in the game long enough for Russia to hold up it's hands and throw in the towel and leave Ukraine. My guess is by then Putler will look old and weak enough for others in positions of power in Russia to move against him as they seek to replace him blaming him for this failure in Ukraine.

We only need to hold on so much longer and the Russian roar will turn into a squeaking of a mouse :D
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2024, 08:53:08 AM
Ukrainians largest Hydroelectric Dam in Zaphorziazhia hit:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-68637596

Kharkiv's Power Plant destroyed and many other power infrastructure in Ukraine. Kharkiv without power also many other millions of Ukrainians without power across Ukraine as a result of these morning strikes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68634444
Title: Re: The Struggle For Ukraine
Post by: krimster2 on March 22, 2024, 10:42:10 AM
so 'tis gonna be THAT KINDA FOIGHT now?

i'm tellin ya Trenchman....
you are staring at an opportunity for REDEMPTION of yur whole freakin miserable British life
but...
I'm SURE, like every other time you had such an opportunity
you'll wave "good by" to it and go back to watching "Red Dwarf" re-runs on the tele while munching on a Sainsbury frozen meat pie (dey is tasty!)
you could master "The Attention Economy" in Ukraine
and get 10X what Bald and Bankrupt got....
AND...
have a FREAKIN blast (perhaps an ill chosen word) doin it!!!!
and just rent out your place, and use yur mom/sister's place for base of operations in UK

this'd be ALMOST as good as going to medical school in ENGLISH in Ternopil State Univ and studyin Gynecology
then ONLY accept super model patiants

getting paid to get laid
how many guyz smart enuff to pull that off?
and here's YUR opportunity Trench
The Nebbish who roared and became a beacon of hope to a beleagured people

Trench, Putin set this whole war up in Ukraine - JUST TO GIVE YOU THIS OPPORTUNITY!!!!
just so you can make that Youtube $$$ and have super model Ukrainian girl friend(s)

read books on settin up a charity, talk to some other folks, read about monetizing Youtube, etc, Trench's Ukraine Rescue Gift Shop and Merchandise
and DO IT!!!

WTF???
Y NOT??

you would go to the head of the class if you did this Trench
insteada bein all the way in the back

now that I presented YOU with this
what are yur EXCUSES for NOT doin it?

the US State Dept warned us a few days ago about a pending terrorist attack in Moscow...

well...
the attack just happened
http://apnews.com/article/russia-moscow-gunmen-concert-hall-injuries-fe7db5bb4ad4df17b6cbd04a3250faa1

Title: Moscow Attack: Don’t Believe the Kremlin
Post by: ML on March 25, 2024, 08:38:09 PM
Moscow Attack: Don’t Believe the Kremlin
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. Monday, March 25, 2024
Friday’s terrorist attack at the Crocus City Hall concert venue near Moscow killed more than 100 people in a brutal crime against humanity. Many key facts are still unclear, and rest assured they
will become only less clear as the Kremlin works to exploit the crisis
domestically and abroad.
Coming shortly after his latest sham election, the attack gave dicta-
tor Vladimir Putin a rallying cry one day after the Kremlin declared for the first time that Russia is in a “state of war” in Ukraine.
But the official Kremlin story line is already a shambles. In one of the most surveilled cities on earth, where you can be arrested in 30 seconds for whispering “no war,” the terrorists continued their attack for more than an hour and then simply drove away.
The FSB, Russia’s state security service, claims to have arrested four
suspects near Ukraine, at one of the most fortified borders in the world.
Or did the suspects actually drive to Russian ally Belarus, as that nation’s ambassador to Russia said? Considering the amount of materiel and In a heavily surveilled city, how could ISIS terrorists
have killed for nearly an hour and driven away?
In preparation required to do so much damage to a venue the size of a small village, it’s odd that the terrorists would suddenly turn into bungling amateurs by carrying their Tajik passports and heading to a militarized border.
Every official statement from the Kremlin and its propagandists will
be a lie, with a few half-truths tossed in. It’s a control reflex of the security state of which Mr. Putin is a product.
Mr. Putin angrily dismissed warnings from the U.S. Embassy on March 7 and March 18 about a potential terror attack at a concert venue in Moscow  (How did the U.S. know? Was it sources in ISIS-K or, as I suspect, moles in the FSB?)
Then, on March 22, Mr. Putin issued orders to conscript hundreds of thousands more Russians for his war of conquest against Ukraine. Twenty-five years ago, when then-Prime Minister Putin needed a platform for his presidential campaign, a series of terrorist apartment bombings in Russia launched the Second Chechen War. I laid out the copious evidence that these were
false-flag attacks, staged by the FSB, in my 2015 book, “Winter Is Coming.” It’s a deed so shocking that it is difficult to believe—until you realize what sort of man Mr. Putin is. He has no allergy to blood, Russian or any other kind, if spilling it furthers his goals.
Twenty-five years ago, Mr. Putin grabbed power by committing mass murder in Chechnya. Today, in hope of staying in power, Mr. Putin is committing mass murder in Ukraine.
The West’s weakness encourages Russian escalation.  White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan was just in Kyiv, but instead of helping Ukraine fight off the daily Rus-
sian attacks on its energy infrastruc-
ture by delivering weapons, he was
apparently there to discourage
Ukraine from doing the same to Rus-
sia. On Friday the Financial Times re-
ported that the U.S. has pressured
Ukraine not to attack Russian oil in-
frastructure for fear of raising global
gas prices—which might harm Presi-
dent Biden’s re-election chances.
Russian air power devastates Ukraine
because America promised Ukraine
F-16s but says it takes too long to
train the pilots. Last week Mr. Bi-
den’s administration even vetoed a
Group of Seven statement condemn-
ing Russia’s fake elections.
All this suggests Mr. Biden fears
Russian defeat more than Russian
victory. As I documented in August,
this is the continuation of a betrayal
of a democratic ally and of American
security interests.
It’s a cowardly new world order.
The White House is busy telling
Ukraine where it can’t shoot and tell-
ing Israel where it can’t hunt terror-
ists. Instead of providing leadership
to unite democratic allies against
dictators, Mr. Biden’s administration
puts limits on America’s allies to
protect America’s enemies. You don’t
have to wonder what Taiwan and
China make of America’s descent
into passivity.
Republican obstruction of aid to
Ukraine is despicable, but Mr. Biden
can’t use it to excuse his own poli-
ticking and inaction. America has the
largest military arsenal known to
man, but it rusts in warehouses
while Ukrainians die. Harry Truman
had to face down Stalin and said the
buck stopped with him. Mr. Biden
says the buck stops with Speaker
Mike Johnson. Donald Trump threat-
ens isolationism in speeches and so-
cial-media posts; Mr. Biden is mak-
ing isolationism a reality by refusing
to stand up to dictators or to his
own domestic opposition.
Mr. Biden retreated from Afghani-
stan, and Russia invaded Ukraine. He
retreated from Ukraine, and Hamas
launched a war against Israel. Weak-
ness invites aggression.
Mr. Putin believes he needs per-
petual war to hold on to power. He is
creating the conditions to radicalize
the Russian population further and
to fulfill his new mobilization or-
ders. By summer, the new conscripts
will be at Ukraine’s front lines.
Ukraine can’t survive this year un-
less America’s leaders do what is
right instead of what they think is
politically expedient.
Like all dictators, Mr. Putin excels
at creating distractions from his
crimes. The Moscow attack will draw
global attention away from his war
on Ukraine, but it won’t distract him
at all. Mourn for every innocent life
lost in Moscow, but also act to save
the next one in Ukraine.
If a suspected serial killer is at
large, the first thing to do when
there’s a murder is to check his alibi.
Mr. Putin is under indictment for
war crimes, and his bloody track re-
cord makes him suspect No. 1. There
can be no common cause against ter-
ror with Russia when the world’s
most accomplished terrorist rules
the Kremlin.
Mr. Kasparov is a co-founder of
the World Liberty Congress and
chairman of the Renew Democracy Initiative