The Struggle For Ukraine

[Boethius]

Another good article

http://uscnpm.org/2022/03/12/hu-wei-russia-ukraine-war-china-choice/

[BillyB]

Did you guys believe the media and the American government who initially called the biolabs mis/disinformation? Since they can't hide it anymore, they downplay it. Don't be duped again.

Of course the biolabs are funded by the US government besides private organizations like the SOROS foundation. The media is pure propaganda. The truth can easily be found even on Google, which buries anything that runs against the current narrative.

Here is a 2005 news article stating Obama was involved in getting Ukraine money to create biolabs to handle biological weapons so yes, they are level 4 and can handle the most dangerous pathogens known to man. They are working with military grade biological weapons stating it's for research to benefit mankind. If Putin did and said that, would you believe him? I don't believe the American government. They intentionally put Ukraine in danger using them as a playground for their provocative projects. Obama was also involved in getting funding to China to experiment with Coronaviruses. America has no business outsourcing experiments with the most dangerous pathogens known to man to any country, especially those full of corruption.

http://media.nti.org/pdfs/148_2.pdf

Victoria Nuland from the State Dept. and she was Obama's instrument to fuel the Orange Revolution in Ukraine put out a statement our government is worried about Russia getting their hands on the biolabs. Why? Probably because they're level 4 and probably Russia will obtain evidence that our government doesn't want released to the world. In the video in link below, her body language and voice shows she's very worried.

http://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/1501336793941258240?s=21

I'm not for the war but Putin has a right to get involved in making sure weapons grade pathogens aren't being manufactured next door.


How do you guys like those high gas prices making Russian richer funding the war in Ukraine? A barrel of oil was little over $20 at one time in 2020. Now it's 5-6 times as much. So what if a few nations boycott and Russia loses 20% of their sales when they're making 500% more money on 80% of their customers who are still buying? Nations like France already said they can't participate in the boycott since they're too dependent on Russian energy.

If the American government wanted to hurt Russia, we would turn on our oil pumps and pipelines to drive the price of oil so low, Russia couldn't make a profit. We would ask our allies in the Middle East to increase production too. Biden cancelled a couple of dozen jet fighters Poland wanted to send to Ukraine. Our government talks about beating Russia but certain policies are helping Russia. Go figure.

The American government is asking private companies to hurt Russian citizens. No more Coca Cola or Big Macs for them! We've adopted a policy to punish Russia citizens who aren't to blame. It will anger them to the point they may begin to support an escalation of the war. Maybe escalation of this war is our policy too?

Read my past posts and I supported Bush's and Obama's wars. I am not satisfied with the results. I thought we learned a lesson after Vietnam and would get it right. I know people who lived in or lived nearby Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan and they say it's more of a mess AFTER America and NATO got involved. We didn't make those countries better and we certainly didn't bring them Democracy as promised. Afghanis who supported us for 20 years are now getting slaughtered after we abandoned them. I'm afraid the West used Ukraine and it's going to end badly for them too.

America has been involved in non stop wars for over 20 years. We need to stop. Quit supporting our government policies that encourage more war.

[Boethius]

Illia Ponamerenko’s Twitter account. He is in Kyiv “until the bitter end”.

http://mobile.twitter.com/IAPonomarenko?s=20&t=cT3DNRN-NIqv8IntmYP9uQ

[BillyB]

They (Russia) also claim the labs were secretly-funded by the US, a claim  easily disproved by a cursory review of the US Embassy's website.


Link to a fact check by BBC News .... http://www.bbc.com/news/60711705

Fact checking sites are a tool media uses to get more of us to believe the propaganda they put out is true.


What that BBC fact checking site and the others don't tell us is the American government deleted pages on their US Embassy website in Ukraine right before putting out propaganda that the American government didn't fund the biolabs.


We are constantly being lied to by our government and our media. The Russian Trump collusion hoax and impeachment circus should've taught us a lesson. Now our government and media wants us to believe we are the good guys engaging in a just war with Russia. Our government wants escalation and needs our support. They can't have any stories out there showing we've been bad to Ukraine and Russia has any valid reason to go to war.


Here are 'some' of the archived pages from the US embassy in Ukraine website. Our government under Obama heavily funded the biolabs right before he supported the Orange Revolution. If I can find these archived pages, so can investigative journalists but instead of revealing the lies of our government, they put out fact checks to get us to believe we have an honest government. We are living in very dangerous times.


http://web.archive.org/web/20170130193016/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-kharkiv-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20210511164310/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-luhansk-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170221125752/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-dnipropetrovsk-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20210506053014/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-vinnitsa-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170221125752/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-dnipropetrovsk-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170207122550/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-kherson-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170223011502/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-ternopil-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170208032526/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-zakarpatska-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170202040923/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-lviv-dl-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170201004446/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-lviv-rdvl-eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170207153023/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-dnipropetrovsk-rdvl_eng.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20170211022339/http://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/kiev-ivm-fact-sheet-eng.pdf

There's a lot more bad I can say about what the American government is doing but some people don't want to hear it because it challenges everything they believe in. People need to start waking up to what our government has become before it's too late. Both Republican and Democratic parties are corrupted and need to be overhauled or dismantled.

[BC]

Fact checking sites are a tool media uses to get more of us to believe the propaganda they put out is true.

I see you're still digging in the same old hole again, filling it with your conspiracy tripe and topping it off with cop-outs.

Have fun down there. 

[Boethius]

Another journalist to follow.

http://mobile.twitter.com/mrsorokaa?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Trenchcoat]

Apparently Russia and Ukraine are getting close to reaching an agreement in their peace negotiations. I don't believe it and will be very surprised if they do. Today Russian forces shelled the Antonov aircraft factory in Kyiv thereby reducing Ukraine's ability to manufacture or fix aircraft not that I think they are in much of a position to do that at the moment but a strategic target hit nonetheless. Shelling continues on apartment blocks in and around Kyiv and other cities. Mariupol in dire straights.

I personally don't see that Putin can afford to back down at least not without some kind of agreement on what he wants in terms of no NATO in Ukraine, etc. Even then it may be difficult for him to and not end up like Khrushchev after the Cuban Missile Crises being retired off as a result.

While Russian forces haven't started assault Kyiv yet they have likely pretty much encircled it and so with supplies cut off to Kyiv in that respect they then only have to sit it out, though I don't think they will do that alone.

Apparently in Kherson the Russians may try to hold a ballot to make it another breakaway 'peoples republic', nothing like democracy in action lol. That again would be a sign that they  have no intention of signing any peace treaty which allows the present Ukrainian government to continue. Russia has had a fair amount of losses getting to where they are so far but I don't think Putin cares about that, there is still the cast bulk of the invasion army left and most of Ukraine's main big cities encircled now. I reckon the Russians are thinking it's just a matter of time before each city capitulates in turn now and is just playing Ukraine along.

[Chelseaboy]

Apartment block in Kiev.next to a school playing field and nowhere near any military ,hit by a Russian missile this morning.


Russia targeting civilians as per usual.

[Bee Farmer]

I just had an idea on how to transfer the Polish Mig-29's to Ukraine.

The US or Poland should just disable the firing controls.  Cut a wire or something minor.  At that point, the Mig-29's can not be used to fire any weapons.  They are no different than any other type of plane.

Then, the non-lethal Mig-29's are given to Ukraine.  Ukraine does repairs so the Mig-29's can be weaponized again.

I compare it to taking the firing pin out of a rifle.  Because it can't physically fire a bullet, it is no longer legally considered a firearm.  If you replace the firing pin, it becomes a firearm again.

[fathertime]

Did you guys believe the media and the American government who initially called the biolabs mis/disinformation? Since they can't hide it anymore, they downplay it. Don't be duped again.

Of course the biolabs are funded by the US government besides private organizations like the SOROS foundation. The media is pure propaganda. The truth can easily be found even on Google, which buries anything that runs against the current narrative.

 

Somebody like Tulsi Gabbard must really believe that there is something going on wtih biolabs, or why would she make these statements....   I'm having a hard time believing it myself.  It's not that I don't think the US would fund weaponized biolabs, because I think we probably would.  It's that I have a hard time believing it would be in Ukraine, where it would provide Russia a legitimate reason to destroy it.   

Sen. Mitt Romney accused Tulsi Gabbard of 'parroting false Russian propaganda' after her comments on biolabs in Ukraine

....Earlier in the day, Gabbard, who ran for president in 2020, posted a video on Twitter repeating claims about US-funded biolabs in Ukraine. She also appeared on Fox News host Tucker Carlson's show last week and said she was "deeply concerned" about claims of bioweapons in Ukraine.....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-mitt-romney-accused-tulsi-055336362.html 

Fathertime!

[Admin]

Did you guys believe the media and the American government who initially called the biolabs mis/disinformation? Since they can't hide it anymore, they downplay it. Don't be duped again.

Of course the biolabs are funded by the US government besides private organizations like the SOROS foundation. The media is pure propaganda. The truth can easily be found even on Google, which buries anything that runs against the current narrative.

Here is a 2005 news article stating Obama was involved in getting Ukraine money to create biolabs to handle biological weapons so yes, they are level 4 and can handle the most dangerous pathogens known to man. They are working with military grade biological weapons stating it's for research to benefit mankind. If Putin did and said that, would you believe him? I don't believe the American government. They intentionally put Ukraine in danger using them as a playground for their provocative projects. Obama was also involved in getting funding to China to experiment with Coronaviruses. America has no business outsourcing experiments with the most dangerous pathogens known to man to any country, especially those full of corruption.

http://media.nti.org/pdfs/148_2.pdf

Victoria Nuland from the State Dept. and she was Obama's instrument to fuel the Orange Revolution in Ukraine put out a statement our government is worried about Russia getting their hands on the biolabs. Why? Probably because they're level 4 and probably Russia will obtain evidence that our government doesn't want released to the world. In the video in link below, her body language and voice shows she's very worried.

http://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/1501336793941258240?s=21

I'm not for the war but Putin has a right to get involved in making sure weapons grade pathogens aren't being manufactured next door.


How do you guys like those high gas prices making Russian richer funding the war in Ukraine? [rhetorical foil] A barrel of oil was little over $20 at one time in 2020. Now it's 5-6 times as much. So what if a few nations boycott and Russia loses 20% of their sales when they're making 500% more money on 80% of their customers who are still buying? Nations like France already said they can't participate in the boycott since they're too dependent on Russian energy.

If the American government wanted to hurt Russia, we would turn on our oil pumps and pipelines to drive the price of oil so low, Russia couldn't make a profit. We would ask our allies in the Middle East to increase production too. Biden cancelled a couple of dozen jet fighters Poland wanted to send to Ukraine. Our government talks about beating Russia but certain policies are helping Russia. Go figure.

The American government is asking private companies to hurt Russian citizens. No more Coca Cola or Big Macs for them! We've adopted a policy to punish Russia citizens who aren't to blame. It will anger them to the point they may begin to support an escalation of the war. Maybe escalation of this war is our policy too?

Read my past posts and I supported Bush's and Obama's wars. I am not satisfied with the results. I thought we learned a lesson after Vietnam and would get it right. I know people who lived in or lived nearby Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan and they say it's more of a mess AFTER America and NATO got involved. We didn't make those countries better and we certainly didn't bring them Democracy as promised. Afghanis who supported us for 20 years are now getting slaughtered after we abandoned them. I'm afraid the West used Ukraine and it's going to end badly for them too.
America has been involved in non stop wars for over 20 years. We need to stop. Quit supporting our government policies that encourage more war.

So much nonsense.


The emboldened statement in blue indicate clear bias. That bias undergirds everything else.

The use of "probably" and "if" are indicative of hypotheticals. Those hypotheticals are then drawn out as conclusory, but their underlying basis is NOT supported with facts. Joe Friday would be appalled.


Once again, the arrogance displayed in a post like this TRUMPets the message; "I know the truth and you do not!" It's ludicrous. The danger of these posts is there are small snippets of truth in them, so a casual reader might not bother to pick up on the fact that Russia was claiming these were "secret" weapons biolabs. If they were so secret, why was there public announcement in 2005 and then on the US Embassy website. There was nothing "secret" about them. Remember the Latin phrase Falsus in uno, falsus in ombibus -- false in part, false in whole.

[Boethius]

The US claims China may be willing to arm Russia. This is a token for a paywalled article.

 http://archive.ph/ZRtRn

[Boethius]

Somebody like Tulsi Gabbard must really believe that there is something going on wtih biolabs, or why would she make these statements....   I'm having a hard time believing it myself.  It's not that I don't think the US would fund weaponized biolabs, because I think we probably would.  It's that I have a hard time believing it would be in Ukraine, where it would provide Russia a legitimate reason to destroy it.   

Sen. Mitt Romney accused Tulsi Gabbard of 'parroting false Russian propaganda' after her comments on biolabs in Ukraine

....Earlier in the day, Gabbard, who ran for president in 2020, posted a video on Twitter repeating claims about US-funded biolabs in Ukraine. She also appeared on Fox News host Tucker Carlson's show last week and said she was "deeply concerned" about claims of bioweapons in Ukraine.....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-mitt-romney-accused-tulsi-055336362.html 

Fathertime!

Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent.

This is the Twitter account of Ben Collins, a reporter who has been following the biolabs “issue”. He gives a good explanation-

http://tinyurl.com/2p8azrnt

Here is his whole story on the issue-

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/qanon-ukraine-biolabs-russian-propaganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392

My conclusion is that anyone spreading this lie is either a Russian agent, or a dupe for the Russians.

[ML]

The US claims China may be willing to arm Ukraine. This is a token for a paywalled article.

 http://archive.ph/ZRtRn

Wife was all in a panic telling me about this.
So thanks for posting this link so I could read.
Not as dire as she thought.
China is denying.
USA (and our group) is to threaten China with consequences if they do provide help to Russia.

[tfcrew]

Somebody like Tulsi Gabbard must really believe that there is something going on wtih biolabs, or why would she make these statements....   

For one thing-- Ms Gabbard did not say anything about the US has 'weaponized biolabs'. For another-- Mitt Romney has never changed his hum drum asinine position on anything productive.

Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent. 

Donation? A big rugged $59?
The woman is an American citizen who is accused of being a Russian agent by who?
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg
Supposedly-- Donald Trump was a Russian agent, Putin's stooge ...accused with no supportive facts.
Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever the Russian Federation has invaded an area....a Democrat was president? 

[Admin]

Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent.

This is the Twitter account of Ben Collins, a reporter who has been following the biolabs “issue”. He gives a good explanation-

http://tinyurl.com/2p8azrnt

Here is his whole story on the issue-

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/qanon-ukraine-biolabs-russian-propaganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392

My conclusion is that anyone spreading this lie is either a Russian agent, or a dupe for the Russians.

Concur.

I believe there are well-intended Americans, including many veterans, who have seen things they never thought they would see. Some of that has shaken their trust in America. As sad as that may be, more than a few are now allowing themselves to be misled by their disappointment and buying into garbage that is pablum for the weary, but defies critical analysis. Worse, those same starry-eyed youth who fought wars in the name of American virtue, are now falling victim to psychological warfare from legitimate enemies both domestic and foreign.

[Admin]

For one thing-- Ms Gabbard did not say anything about the US has 'weaponized biolabs'. For another-- Mitt Romney has never changed his hum drum asinine position on anything productive.Donation? A big rugged $59?
The woman is an American citizen who is accused of being a Russian agent by who?
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg
Supposedly-- Donald Trump was a Russian agent, Putin's stooge ...accused with no supportive facts.
Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever the Russian Federation has invaded an area....a Democrat was president?

Coincidence or causal?

I see a clear relationship between Olympics events and Putin's aggressions - but again, it is coincidence or causal? And .... does it matter? The aggressions exist regardless.

[Boethius]

The woman is an American citizen who is accused of being a Russian agent by who?
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031422dAPR20220314054505.jpg
Supposedly-- Donald Trump was a Russian agent, Putin's stooge ...accused with no supportive facts.
Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever the Russian Federation has invaded an area....a Democrat was president?

By the US government.  She fled back to Russia.  That in and of itself is rather telling, IMHO.


I don't think the US government ever alleged Trump was a Russian agent.  I do think he is compromised, probably by his own greed.  Without oligarch dollars, his empire would be defunct.


You are mistaken about only Democrats being presidents during invasions.  G.W. Bush was president when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.  George H.W. Bush was president in 1990, when the Transnistria conflict occurred.

[Boethius]

This is a Bloomberg article picked up by Canada's National Post.


http://nationalpost.com/news/world/china-denies-malicious-u-s-reports-that-russia-sought-their-military-aid-for-ukraine-war

[tfcrew]

By the US government.  She fled back to Russia.  That in and of itself is rather telling, IMHO.


I don't think the US government ever alleged Trump was a Russian agent.  I do think he is compromised, probably by his own greed.  Without oligarch dollars, his empire would be defunct.


You are mistaken about only Democrats being presidents during invasions.  G.W. Bush was president when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.  George H.W. Bush was president in 1990, when the Transnistria conflict occurred.

I goofed up my link. Should be----
 http://www.salon.com/2022/03/11/accused-russian-agent-lobbied-lawmakers-only-donated-to-one-politician-tulsi-gabbard/
 A donation from someone made Tulsi a Putin supporter?
 So far, the Russians have not conquered Georgia. At least... not so far.

[fathertime]

Gabbard either has been compromised by, or is an agent for, the Russians. She is the only US politician to have received a donation from a Russian agent.

I really don't think Gabbard is either of those.  I think she believes she is correct.  Why would she believe it is what should be heard.   

Maybe she is interested in undermining biden

Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

So far, the Russians have not conquered Georgia. At least... not so far.

But they did invade Georgian territory during the Bush administration.

I really don't think Gabbard is either of those.  I think she believes she is correct.  Why would she believe it is what should be heard.   

Maybe she is interested in undermining biden

Fathertime!   

When it looks like a duck . . .

[tfcrew]

Fact checking sites are a tool media uses to get more of us to believe the propaganda they put out is true.

Politico might be one. They are the first to break their necks jumping in for the liberal cause.

What that BBC fact checking site and the others don't tell us is the American government deleted pages on their US Embassy website in Ukraine right before putting out propaganda that the American government didn't fund the biolabs.

I still didn't see that the bottom was reached concerning Tony Fauci and the Wuhan lab. BTW where is that guy?

We are living in very dangerous times.

 

[tfcrew]

But they did invade Georgian territory during the Bush administration.

Acknowledged. However--as it turned out.. with his own bare butt hanging out with Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan...Bush was in no position there to paddle the Russians over former Soviet affairs. Also, as with Ukraine today, there was no NATO jurisdiction involved. Will there be? Is NATO as solidly together as Biden says? -----------


 

[Boethius]

Another perspective on the evil Kremlin stooge Gabbard.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tulsi-gabbard-thoughts-biolabs-kremlin-fixated