Don't go to Odessa!

[brownbeard99]

The city name is spelled Odesa.

Actually, it’s spelled Одесса or Одеса. People use them interchangeably here. This city has a huge Russian influence and many people to use the original spelling for places. This is a part of a bigger political struggle between the nationalists and the Russian Speakers. Many people here say Lvov instead of Lviv and refer to the city of Dnipro by its original Dnipropetrovsk. Just like in the US, I refuse to change my speech patters based on a politically correct political agenda. This anti-Russian culture sentiment is a large part of the problems in Donetsk and Luhansk. I have spend countless hours meeting with educated people here (university professors, etc) to gain a real understanding of the cultural struggles, which language is a big part of. Do you want to experience real racism? Go to Poltava and try speaking to people in Russian. They will tell you where to stick it...

[ML]

Actually, it’s spelled Одесса or Одеса.

You list both the correct spelling and the incorrect spelling.

This would be like saying the city in India can be current spelled Bombay or Mumbai.
Or that the city in China can be currently spelled Beijing or Peking.

Here are the current official spellings and approved English translations by Ukraine government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ukraine

[brownbeard99]

Nope.  The Ukrainian government has requested, officially, the spelling "Kyiv" and no article in front of Ukraine.  It's akin to saying "Peking" for Beijing.


brownbeard, while things worked out for you, by your own admission, Odesa is still a city of scammers (it was known this way as early as the 19th century).  I believe, based on the stories you posted of senior citizens assuming nubile young women will be sexually attracted to men the age of their grandfathers, and another thinking and Anastasia Date tour is a great place to find a potential partner, the advice given to you seems to be correct, even if things worked out for you personally. 

So what happened to your children?  I assume they didn't move with you?

My older kids left home and my youngest lives with her mom now.

[brownbeard99]

Hi BB-

Nice to see your return complete with in-country report. Whether or not this still doesn’t knock some senses in a lot of folks of the perils in this endeavor, maybe just as well for many of them.

Ironically however, you were once the target of the peanut gallery, but you not only marched to your own drumbeat, but actually had gone beyond what you hoped and what can be expected.

Would love your personal experience as to the advice that bearded dudes like you will be feigned upon by the felines of Ukraine. Did you shaved off your beard, or did you find out that was unfounded. Curious.

Good luck going forward, man.

 
Do we really want to resurrect the beard debate? I think it all comes down to personal preference. From my experience, it’s more important for a man to be tall (at least 5’10”) to attract women here. That is more important than hair style, beards, or weight.

That being said... I shaved my beard a few months ago and my girlfriend said I would be sleeping on the balcony until it grew back. A year ago, I created a separate dating profile where I was clean shaven in all the pictures. My response rate was about 50% lower... but these things are just my personal experience.

When I lived far from the city center off of Barcharova in Odessa... this area is mainly poor or working class... I would say that about 60% of men had facial hair... ranging from five o’clock shadow to Duck Dynasty.

Now I live in the city center where I would say 70-80% of men have facial hair. This is largely due to the heavy Turkish influence in the touristy areas.

The bottom line is this. If you want to have a beard, go for it. If you like to be clean shaven, shave away. Nobody really cares either way. Do what you want.

[brownbeard99]

Brownbeard,

I want to invite you to start a trip report and post some of your experiences there.
(or here) Ignore the peanut gallery and pass on some of your thoughts and the
various Odessa life hacks that you learned along the way. I think that it would
be very interesting.

Udachi!

Bill

I’m thinking about doing this. You learn so much more living here than you do as a tourist. I have volumes I could write... I’m just trying to prioritize what is most helpful. The best thing I can say is to tell people to give up any unrealistic fantasies you may have. People may find love in Ukraine, but it won’t look anything like Elena’s Models wants you to believe.

[brownbeard99]

I've tried to dispense that advice for years. There is just too much of a MOB
industry that has been perfecting and fine tuning their wallet thinning abilities
for the average newbie to navigate successfully. I think Nikolaev is probably
equally treacherous.

NOTICE TO NEWBIES: Avoid the perils of the MOB industry and eliminate
Odessa and Nikolaev or anywhere near the Ukraine/Russia border dispute
from your search criteria. There are many good girls from those areas but
you are unlikely to find them.

Udachi!

Bill

+1

[brownbeard99]

You list both the correct spelling and the incorrect spelling.

This would be like saying the city in India can be current spelled Bombay or Mumbai.
Or that the city in China can be currently spelled Beijing or Peking.

Here are the current official spellings and approved English translations by Ukraine government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ukraine

Perhaps you missed my point. People here use both spellings interchangeably. I took special notice of this today as I was riding the minibus. Most advertisements and billboards use the spelling Odessa. Car dealerships spell it Odessa on the license plate holders and websites. Official government communications use Odesa. Your comments about the “correct” spelling and trying to make me look like a fool come from a place of ignorance. If you type “Odesa” into Google translate, it will say “ Одесса” in the translation. It’s not as simple as “right” and “wrong”. There are deep cultural and political issues involved here.

[GQBlues]

Do we really want to resurrect the beard debate? I think it all comes down to personal preference. From my experience, it’s more important for a man to be tall (at least 5’10”) to attract women here. That is more important than hair style, beards, or weight.

That being said... I shaved my beard a few months ago and my girlfriend said I would be sleeping on the balcony until it grew back. A year ago, I created a separate dating profile where I was clean shaven in all the pictures. My response rate was about 50% lower... but these things are just my personal experience.

When I lived far from the city center off of Barcharova in Odessa... this area is mainly poor or working class... I would say that about 60% of men had facial hair... ranging from five o’clock shadow to Duck Dynasty.

Now I live in the city center where I would say 70-80% of men have facial hair. This is largely due to the heavy Turkish influence in the touristy areas.

The bottom line is this. If you want to have a beard, go for it. If you like to be clean shaven, shave away. Nobody really cares either way. Do what you want.

Had always been my lifelong belief. I've always cut across the grain when my instinct/experience tells me accordingly during my pursuit, and had mostly feigned away from the gallery's 'wisdom'.


I'm glad things have so far worked out for you!

[ML]

Perhaps you missed my point. People here use both spellings interchangeably.

No I did not miss your point, and I know that some (many) in Odesa misspell it as Odessa both in English and in Cyrillic.

Now assume you visited Mumbai in India and found that several people you interacted with referred to  the old name of Bombay.

Would you then write up a trip report for international posting and use the word Bombay throughout ?

[BillyB]

The best thing I can say is to tell people to give up any unrealistic fantasies you may have. People may find love in Ukraine, but it won’t look anything like Elena’s Models wants you to believe.

Keep in mind, you're in a port city where sailors visit and is known for sex tourism. Most cities in Ukraine are not like that. If you're using dating sites while you're there and want to find a good wholesome girl, make two profiles. One being you and the other being someone else messaging the girl that is looking for a girl who needs a sponsor. You'll be able to weed out the hookers.

[GQBlues]

No I did not miss your point, and I know that some (many) in Odesa misspell it as Odessa both in English and in Cyrillic.

Now assume you visited Mumbai in India and found that several people you interacted with referred to  the old name of Bombay.

Would you then write up a trip report for international posting and use the word Bombay throughout ?

If I was writing a T/R for Ukrainian readership, I'd extend the respect and note proper spelling and/or recognition of their cities and towns, etc...

However, if I was writing trip report for western readership during my travels to West Bengal, I wouldn't be using the name kolkata, but instead use 'Calcutta'. I may make a pronouncement of the historical nature of the change, but that would be the extent of it.

Considering the ROC, a state of more than 25 million people, can't even get the respect and recognition of it's 'nation' from the world at large due to the overall threat of the PRC, there are certain and current global matters that are far more serious.

Like for instance, why are all black people in the US called African-American?    Is this a disrespect to black Americans by a travelling author to call them as such considering there are many nations in Africa and/or many black people in the US aren't of African origin?

[mhr7]

No I did not miss your point, and I know that some (many) in Odesa misspell it as Odessa both in English and in Cyrillic.

Now assume you visited Mumbai in India and found that several people you interacted with referred to  the old name of Bombay.

Would you then write up a trip report for international posting and use the word Bombay throughout ?

Last time I was in Kharkov that's exactly what the locals called it, so I did too. I would've looked like a fool if I'd done any differently.

 

[brownbeard99]

No I did not miss your point, and I know that some (many) in Odesa misspell it as Odessa both in English and in Cyrillic.

Now assume you visited Mumbai in India and found that several people you interacted with referred to  the old name of Bombay.

Would you then write up a trip report for international posting and use the word Bombay throughout ?

No I did not miss your point, and I know that some (many) in Odesa misspell it as Odessa both in English and in Cyrillic.

Now assume you visited Mumbai in India and found that several people you interacted with referred to  the old name of Bombay.

Would you then write up a trip report for international posting and use the word Bombay throughout ?

I live in the city of Odessa. I have many friends here. One of the reasons I have friends is I don’t show up telling them how stupid they are by telling them they don’t spell the name of the city correctly. I dare anyone to come here and start telling people they are wrong in how they spell things here. You are a tourist. They have lived here for generations. While you are at it, you can tell everyone they pronounce the city incorrectly as well. Most people here say “Adessa”, which is the Russian pronunciation. People here don’t have the luxury of being over educated snobs. They don’t give a damn what random Americans on the Internet think and neither do I. I have no plans to go to Mumbai either and tell them what to call their city. I grew up in Los Angeles, but most people say “Las Angeles” This is incorrect, but I never went around like a self righteous know-it-all correcting everyone.

If you want to call it “Odesa”, go right ahead. I will stick with the spelling used by the Odessa tourism department. Maybe someone here should give them a call and tell them what fools they are. You can find them at odessatourism.org or see their signs and maps all over the city with incorrect spellings.

[2tallbill]

I’m thinking about doing this. You learn so much more living here than you do as a tourist. I have volumes I could write... I’m just trying to prioritize what is most helpful. The best thing I can say is to tell people to give up any unrealistic fantasies you may have. People may find love in Ukraine, but it won’t look anything like Elena’s Models wants you to believe.

BBeard,
Everyone has their own style of doing things. Your style will be different than mine.

If I were to do it, I would do it somewhat chronologically at first. Starting with the MOB
industry fairy tale, what you learned before you made the trip and your preconceptions 
both right and wrong about what you thought you would find, compare that to what you
learned the first month. First, second and third impressions.

Then different topics or themes with some anecdotes mixed in.
Then, what you would have done different or spent more energy on
and what you would advise others to do.

You can't eat an elephant all at once, but if you cut it up and freeze it, then eat a couple
sandwiches per week eventually your freezer will be empty and you will have eaten the
whole thing.

Lastly I would start a thread for somewhat related conversation about Brown Beard's
Odyssey to Odessa for the peanut gallery to comment on with all the splintered remotely
related subjects that are sure to come up and ask a moderator anytime something needs
to be pulled off your Odyssey page and on to a separate subject or sent to Trenchcoats
theories thread. Because if allowed he will post twice as much as you will.

Ask the mods for help if the peanut gallery decides to delve into boxers or briefs, Ginger
or Mary Ann or whether you use scissors or pluck excess nose/ear hair.

Udachi!

Bill 

[GQBlues]

I live in the city of Odessa. I have many friends here. One of the reasons I have friends is I don’t show up telling them how stupid they are by telling them they don’t spell the name of the city correctly. I dare anyone to come here and start telling people they are wrong in how they spell things here. You are a tourist. They have lived here for generations. While you are at it, you can tell everyone they pronounce the city incorrectly as well. Most people here say “Adessa”, which is the Russian pronunciation. People here don’t have the luxury of being over educated snobs. They don’t give a damn what random Americans on the Internet think and neither do I. I have no plans to go to Mumbai either and tell them what to call their city. I grew up in Los Angeles, but most people say “Las Angeles” This is incorrect, but I never went around like a self righteous know-it-all correcting everyone.

If you want to call it “Odesa”, go right ahead. I will stick with the spelling used by the Odessa tourism department. Maybe someone here should give them a call and tell them what fools they are. You can find them at odessatourism.org or see their signs and maps all over the city with incorrect spellings.

BB-


I don't believe ML meant any offense. He loves his better half very much, and automatically and by extension, Ukraine is very dear and personal in his heart. His emotive response to what he, and many others feel, is a reflection of Ukraine's present state of affairs.


Hell, he even likened my wife a 'terrorist' by virtue of Russia's president being Putin  , but I know he really didn't mean in that way. Emotions can sometimes get the better of all of us.

[ML]

BB-


I don't believe ML meant any offense. He loves his better half very much, and automatically and by extension, Ukraine is very dear and personal in his heart. His emotive response to what he, and many others feel, is a reflection of Ukraine's present state of affairs.


Hell, he even likened my wife a 'terrorist' by virtue of Russia's president being Putin  , but I know he really didn't mean in that way. Emotions can sometimes get the better of all of us.

Spoken as a true gentleman and scholar.  :-)

[brownbeard99]

Odessa is very near and dear to my heart. I have many friends who were sent here from Russia during the Soviet era or their parents were sent here and they grew up here. The culture has always been very Russian. They taught Russian in school, they played Russian on the radio. The people were loyal to Ukraine, but had so much Russian in their culture. Then, almost overnight, they banned the Russian language on TV and Radio, blocked Russian internet sites and made it “illegal” to use the Russian language in commerce. If you go to almost any restaurant in Odessa, you can get a menu in Ukrainian, English, or Turkish, but not Russian, even though 95% of the people speak Russian. If someone wants to comply and learn Ukrainian, there is no government assistance. There are no schools for this or sources of free public education for citizens to learn Ukrainian if they were out of school... even though they were originally taught to read in write in Russian (in Ukrainian schools). My girlfriend and her family are almost all in this group. What is her 70 year old babushka supposed to do? I don’t think it’s right to cut her off from society because the language she has spoken here her entire life is no longer politically correct. This family is pro-Ukraine, but does not want to give up everything they have ever known. My girlfriend’s brother serves in the Ukrainian military. He is currently on the front lines, fighting against the “evil” Russian forces every day.

I don’t really take sides in this whole thing... at least as not as far as the people are concerned. Putin’s actions are not the fault of people here who speak Russian. Nobody prevents people in Lviv from speaking Polish. Russian speakers in Ukraine shouldn’t be punished because of Putin. I have spent many hours speaking to people who live this every day... not just from websites or the news. I live here. When is the last time you saw military convoys moving through your city on the way to war against Russia?  They are all lined up just outside Odessa as I am writing this.

[Hammer2722]

Brownbeard,

I want to invite you to start a trip report and post some of your experiences there.
(or here) Ignore the peanut gallery and pass on some of your thoughts and the
various Odessa life hacks that you learned along the way. I think that it would
be very interesting.

Udachi!

Bill

I agree, would be interesting to hear your experiences in ODESSA!

[ML]

Odessa is very near and dear to my heart. I have many friends who were sent here from Russia during the Soviet era or their parents were sent here and they grew up here. The culture has always been very Russian. They taught Russian in school, they played Russian on the radio. The people were loyal to Ukraine, but had so much Russian in their culture. Then, almost overnight, they banned the Russian language on TV and Radio, blocked Russian internet sites and made it “illegal” to use the Russian language in commerce. If you go to almost any restaurant in Odessa, you can get a menu in Ukrainian, English, or Turkish, but not Russian, even though 95% of the people speak Russian. If someone wants to comply and learn Ukrainian, there is no government assistance. There are no schools for this or sources of free public education for citizens to learn Ukrainian if they were out of school... even though they were originally taught to read in write in Russian (in Ukrainian schools). My girlfriend and her family are almost all in this group. What is her 70 year old babushka supposed to do? I don’t think it’s right to cut her off from society because the language she has spoken here her entire life is no longer politically correct. This family is pro-Ukraine, but does not want to give up everything they have ever known. My girlfriend’s brother serves in the Ukrainian military. He is currently on the front lines, fighting against the “evil” Russian forces every day.

I don’t really take sides in this whole thing... at least as not as far as the people are concerned. Putin’s actions are not the fault of people here who speak Russian. Nobody prevents people in Lviv from speaking Polish. Russian speakers in Ukraine shouldn’t be punished because of Putin. I have spent many hours speaking to people who live this every day... not just from websites or the news. I live here. When is the last time you saw military convoys moving through your city on the way to war against Russia?  They are all lined up just outside Odessa as I am writing this.

I bothered my Ukrainian wife from her studies to have her read and comment about the above.

Anyone who wants to get Russian TV programs and Russian news channels can easily do so through the Internet.

It is not illegal to use Russian language in commerce in the total sense.  Yes, contracts must be in Ukrainian language and documents filed with government agencies must be in Ukrainian (Same rule that exists in all countries of the world).  And, even if shop keepers are encouraged to speak in Ukrainian, their customers can freely use Russian to ask questions, etc.  So no one is cut off from society.

Everyone who grew up anywhere in Ukraine understands the Ukrainian language, even if only imperfectly so.  It is not at all like 70 year olds go out into the public and everyone is speaking Japanese which would bring them to tears.

Yes, no one would prevent Polish in Lviv; but Polish speakers have not attacked Ukraine in quite a few years.

Now if one really wants to see the contrast in how Ukraine and Russia treat each other  . . . here are the facts.

When Ukraine controlled Crimea . . . there were both Ukrainian and Russian speaking schools for children.  When Russia controls Crimea . . . there are no Ukrainian speaking schools for children.

In Kyiv, there are still schools that use the Russian language for instruction.
In Russia, you will not find a single Ukrainian language school, despite fact that several million Ukrainians live in Russia.

There is a very good reason for Ukraine to attempt to cut down on broadcast of Russian news into  Ukraine . . . that being the almost total falsehood of the news as it relates to events in Ukraine.

Wife tells of two friends of hers who were heavily involved in the 2014 Maidan Independence protests.

Within a couple of weeks they took a trip to Turkey where hotels had only Russian TV news (Yes Turkish also, of course).
After watching the Russian news for several days . . . they started to think that maybe they just had a dream and really weren't there at Maidan where they experienced something entirely different than portrayed on Russian TV.

In another instance, a neighbor reported to wife's parents that an elderly Ukrainian female relative was beaten by some Russian protesters in Kharkiv back during this time period.  But when this woman told of her beating to her brother living in Russia . . . he told her that based on what he was hearing in Russian media . . . that she must be lying to him. 

Putin and his trainees are masters at misinformation and it is only natural for any government to try to protect its citizens as much as possible.

- - - - - - -

Now in contrast to what Ukraine is moving toward (which is similar to almost all countries of the world), USA is making serious mistakes.  That is in moving away from a universal language.

Apparently the severe problems existing in Quebec and Belgium with respect to current and future instability are not known by most here in USA.

[Boethius]

Odessa is very near and dear to my heart. I have many friends who were sent here from Russia during the Soviet era or their parents were sent here and they grew up here. The culture has always been very Russian. They taught Russian in school, they played Russian on the radio. The people were loyal to Ukraine, but had so much Russian in their culture. Then, almost overnight, they banned the Russian language on TV and Radio, blocked Russian internet sites and made it “illegal” to use the Russian language in commerce. If you go to almost any restaurant in Odessa, you can get a menu in Ukrainian, English, or Turkish, but not Russian, even though 95% of the people speak Russian. If someone wants to comply and learn Ukrainian, there is no government assistance. There are no schools for this or sources of free public education for citizens to learn Ukrainian if they were out of school... even though they were originally taught to read in write in Russian (in Ukrainian schools). My girlfriend and her family are almost all in this group. What is her 70 year old babushka supposed to do? I don’t think it’s right to cut her off from society because the language she has spoken here her entire life is no longer politically correct. This family is pro-Ukraine, but does not want to give up everything they have ever known. My girlfriend’s brother serves in the Ukrainian military. He is currently on the front lines, fighting against the “evil” Russian forces every day.

I don’t really take sides in this whole thing... at least as not as far as the people are concerned. Putin’s actions are not the fault of people here who speak Russian. Nobody prevents people in Lviv from speaking Polish. Russian speakers in Ukraine shouldn’t be punished because of Putin. I have spent many hours speaking to people who live this every day... not just from websites or the news. I live here. When is the last time you saw military convoys moving through your city on the way to war against Russia?  They are all lined up just outside Odessa as I am writing this.

One still hears more Russian on the streets of L'viv than Polish.  Most of the Polish one hears is from Polish tourists, not locals.

Odesa was not always "culturally" Russian.  It was basically an outpost until the time of Catherine II.  She wanted a port city and poured resources into Odesa.  But the city's layout and buildings were designed primarily by French and Italian architects.  That can be seen, for example, in Odesa's opera house.  The city had a very large Jewish population, and they had the largest cultural impact.  In 1897, ethnic Russians were 50.9% of Odesa's population, Jews (Yiddish speakers) 32.5%, Ukrainians 5.7%.  Poles, Germans, and Greeks were the next largest minorities, with Armenians and various other European populations comprising the balance. 

During NEP, Odesa became Ukrainized.  Soviet papers, such as Oesskie izvestia were renamed (to the Ukrainian Chornomors'ka komuna).  This was the largest paper in the region, with a monthly circulation of 120,000.  Monthly literary journals were published in Ukrainian.  After the Holodomor and the Russification of Ukraine, these papers and institutes were closed.  In 1940, Odesa's population was 38.7% Russian, 36.5% Jewish (Yiddish speaking), 17.4% Ukrainian, with a smattering of Poles and Germans.  During the war, Odesa was captured and administered by Romania.  In 1959, it's population was 41% Ukrainian, 38% Russian, and 16% Jewish.  Odesa still has Ukraine's largest Jewish population. 

I think if anything, Odesa's culture has always been more heavily influenced by its strong Jewish presence.  The unique music, humour, and literature come from Jewish influences, not Russian.

The banning of Russian media occurred after the invasion of Crimea.  Yet, people can still access Russian media sources.  That goes both ways, BTW.  My husband's nephew can get Russian genealogy sites up, but can't access information on them when he's in Ukraine.  The block is coming from Russia, not Ukraine. 

Russian language has always had minority language status in Ukraine, and is constitutionally protected.  The Russian spoken in Odesa is not the same as Russian from say, the Volga region, where Russians believe they are "real" Russians.

Most Ukrainians over the age of forty did not learn Russian in Ukrainian schools, but rather, in Soviet schools. There were times of intense Russification, which included discouraging Ukrainian language education, restricting Ukrainian publications, a Russification of the Ukrainian alphabet (by dropping the "g" and turning the "h" into a "g" sound wise), flooding Ukraine from border to border with ethnic Russians, and thousands of ways Ukrainian language was discouraged.  So the "Ukrainization" is, in a sense, a balancing of that.

Anyone who grew up in Ukraine and speaks Russian as their primary language can understand Ukrainian.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying or is stupid.  I can understand Polish and Russian, for example, because I speak Ukrainian fluently.  I subsequently learned Russian, but even without that study, I could carry on a conversation in Ukrainian with a Russian speaker, who would be able to understand about 60% of what I say with no issues.

Apparently the severe problems existing in Quebec and Belgium with respect to current and future instability are not known by most here in USA.

I don't think this is really a linguistic issue in Canada.  It's more cultural, and about power.  Quebec uses the threat of separation to blackmail the rest of Canada for more funds and such.  A Quebecer can access French language services anywhere in Canada.  He/she may not be able to speak French to a sales clerk, but then, if I go to the Gaspe, I doubt I could speak English to a store clerk either.

[Brillynt]

That being said... I shaved my beard a few months ago and my girlfriend said I would be sleeping on the balcony until it grew back. A year ago, I created a separate dating profile where I was clean shaven in all the pictures. My response rate was about 50% lower... but these things are just my personal experience.

I hope you dumped her.  Telling you were to sleep, what a crock of shite.

[BillyB]

Fun fact. L'viv used to be part of Poland. My MIL who's from Ivano Frankivsk which also once belonged to Poland refuses to speak to anybody speaking Russian. If somebody came into your house and trashed it, would you want to speak their language?

[Boethius]

I hope you dumped her.  Telling you were to sleep, what a crock of shite.

I highly doubt she meant it literally.  It was most likely just a playful joke between partners, in telling him she prefers him with a beard.

L'viv was also part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, from 1772-1918.  For a period before the national revolutions in 1848, German was imposed on the locals - all civil administration, and schooling was conducted in German.  After the national revolutions, Polish and Ukrainian were introduced to universities for study.

My godfather (God rest his soul) was half Polish.  He saw so many Ukrainians tortured and killed by Polish police during the interwar period, that he developed a hatred for Poles. 

[brownbeard99]

No, I didn’t dump my girlfriend because she made a joke about me shaving my beard.

I appreciate all the history lessons, but this changes nothing as far as how I live my personal life. Russian and Ukrainian are both difficult languages to learn. I live in a city where 95% of the people speak Russian. I do not have the capacity to learn both languages in a short period of time, especially when so few people speak Ukrainian here. Learning Ukrainian and memorizing Ukrainian spellings for everything does not add any value to my life.

If it bothers you that I use the Russian spelling for city names or any other words, you don’t have to read my posts.

[Boethius]

I don't really care about your spelling, nor was I commenting on your personal life.   I was commenting more on your view of the "Russian culture" of Odesa.  In Tsarist times, Odesa didn't have a "Russian" culture, and in Soviet times, the culture was Soviet, not Russian.  I also was disputing your view that that people who speak Russian can't read/speak Ukrainian.  It may be difficult for you, but a native speaker, particularly one who grew up in Ukraine, will understand Ukrainian.  Go into the countryside, and people speak a local Ukrainian dialect, not Russian.

My husband's family in Kyiv speak Russian at home, not Ukrainian.  My SIL can't speak Ukrainian, MIL learned it after independence, but doesn't speak it fluently, as uses it rarely.  My husband learned Ukrainian as a child because he wanted to, he is partly of Ukrainian descent, and said as he was living in Ukraine he should know how to speak the language.

There is a poster who used to come here, Stirlitz, who is an ethnic Russian.  He has lived in Odesa for decades, never bothered learning Ukrainian because his world functions in Russian.  When Russia invaded Crimea, he joined the Ukrainian army, and learned to speak Ukrainian fluently.  I doubt it took him long.