Can I skip the middle man

[Prhodes]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

[BC]

If you have her contact information and she also wants to sidestep the agency, why not?  I can imagine some agencies might use such social platforms as a lure though...

[Trenchcoat]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

Bringing in a dating agency may cause you problems. If you get a bad one they may try to convince an otherwise decent girl to screw you if it turns out she isn't so much interested in you. Most girls out there speak some amount of English so a daring agency isn't needed. If her English was bad enough then just employ a terp, your choice of terp not hers to avoid getting screwed.

At the moment it sounds like you are in the early stages of a relationship. Message and find out more and if she is still sounding out ok video chat if you like then possibly go visit if all seems good.

I'm not sure if Tinder is a good platform out there. The girls aren't specifically looking for a foreigner on Tinder but that may have up sides as well as down. Whether they are committed to finding a long term relationship either who knows.

[GQBlues]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

What would stop you from doing exactly that? You should be thankful for bridging the contact with her sans any type of pay-services.

[ML]

Yes, you can skip any dating agency.
However, you must send me a monthly payment.
I'll send you my PayPal info in a private message.

[Prhodes]

😆  you always have great advice

[LAman]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

I've never heard of 'Tender',  is that a new site?

[fathertime]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

Dating services or agencies are supposed to help you meet women.  If you have already met a woman, there is no need to use an agency.  Unless you are going to continue to play the field, there is no need for an agency/dating service at this point.

Fathertime! 

[ML]

I've never heard of 'Tender',  is that a new site?

Yes Tender is a new sister site to Tinder.

Tender takes a softer approach to finding a hook-up.

[Trenchcoat]

I've never heard of 'Tender',  is that a new site?

Perhaps you put in a tender for the woman and she goes with the highest bidder

[Prhodes]

Ok, thank you all for the grammar class. My weaknesses.
Using Tinder was actually pretty easy. I went into setting and changed my location to Kiev and woola! Just like that I had about 30 likes in no time.
Although we did have a little deeper conversation today and she told me she has a 13 year old son. I wonder how much harder that makes the process if we hit it off?
And hopefully Putin stays on his own side because I don't know how that would effect travel to the Ukraine.

[Prhodes]

I just found the E-book. Looks like the answers to a lot of my questions.

[Trenchcoat]

Ok, thank you all for the grammar class. My weaknesses.
Using Tinder was actually pretty easy. I went into setting and changed my location to Kiev and woola! Just like that I had about 30 likes in no time.
Although we did have a little deeper conversation today and she told me she has a 13 year old son. I wonder how much harder that makes the process if we hit it off?
And hopefully Putin stays on his own side because I don't know how that would effect travel to the Ukraine.

Lol, if Putin invades Ukraine will be the last place you'll want to be not unless you're volunteering to be a soldier. It will become the front of a devastating war zone. I seriously doubt they'll let any foreign civilians in if there is anything much at all left there. Look up the kind or arsenal Putin has at his disposal, its truely shocking, hyperthermic missiles, etc. My guess is entire populations could be wiped out in seconds worse case scenario.

The kid thing varies but it can add to complications apparently. If there is still the father hanging around you'll likely have to pay him off, if he accepts that for him to sign to allow his child to leave Ukraine. Others on here know more on this front and it something that comes up fairly regularly.

[ML]

Although we did have a little deeper conversation today and she told me she has a 13 year old son. I wonder how much harder that makes the process if we hit it off?

You know what a PIA teenagers can be.  I certainly was myself.

Now multiply that by 5 times for bringing in a local teenager to a new father figure.

And multiply by another 10 times for bringing the teenager to a new country with a foreign father figure.

Run, Forrest, Run.

[JohnDearGreen]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

According to Tender "terms of use" you cannot use any commercial purpose (dating service/agency) without their permission...
  "use the Service or any content contained in the Service for any commercial purposes without our written consent. "

But more seriously, I would have a backup plan.  If use of a service or agency is your backup plan, use one with an Office in the city you visit, and take your own interpreter ( if needed).

[Brillynt]

I met my wife on fdating.com so we never used an agency. We chatted on the site for a week or so, then switched to emails and I called her phone a few times. After that we switched to Skype and never looked back. I visited after we had been talking on Skype. I then commenced to visit her 6 times in 9 months. Fortunately I have a job I can work remotely.  After the 6th visit we were married in Ukraine and she is now in the USA. I continued to visit while we were waiting for her visa. My recomendation is to video chat as much as you can, If you like what you see and hear then get on the damn plane and see if it is the same in real life.

[2tallbill]

Hello it's been a while.
My question is if I have already met a woman from the Ukraine on Tender do I really need to go through a dating service to pursue this relationship? Sounds like I could save a lot of money doing things on my own. She speaks pretty good so their doesn't seem to be a barrier there.

Treat agencies like a woman with crabs. The further away the better. 

RWD Commandment # 3
3. Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1740.0

[2tallbill]

I just found the E-book. Looks like the answers to a lot of my questions.

After reading the E-book, go here and read the Pursuing FSUW101 thread.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

Udachi!

Bill

[Prhodes]

Thanks again for all of the advice. We message each other on whatapp and can voice chat. I definitely will video chat before I book a trip in February. If all goes well I'll have her come to the U.S and see if everything is up to standards on my end.
It's a shame American women have made themselves undesirable.

[Jumper1]

Thanks again for all of the advice. We message each other on whatapp and can voice chat. I definitely will video chat before I book a trip in February. If all goes well I'll have her come to the U.S and see if everything is up to standards on my end.
It's a shame American women have made themselves undesirable.

I would be cautious painting them all with such a broad brush.

Whether applying that to american women,uk women,  german women,  or FSU women.

They* are far more different individually than any stereotypes  that could be applied regardless any nationality.


If picking a gem* seems challenging from someone's own culture be fully prepared that its not any easier in another culture.

Yiu wint be familairvenoughbwoth the language or culture to pick up.in things as quickly as you would in 5 minutes in your own.
It's also easier for some than others to relocate permanently.


I'm obviously happily married to a FSU woman, but I recognize it was quite fortunate and that she is a remarkable person, none of which had anything substantially to do with her nationality/culture, I'd say actually  in spite of it(before folks throw stones,she would fully agrree with that sentiment,and has stated such)

As always ,your mileage may vary

Good luck!

[2tallbill]

Thanks again for all of the advice. We message each other on whatapp and can voice chat. I definitely will video chat before I book a trip in February. If all goes well I'll have her come to the U.S and see if everything is up to standards on my end.
It's a shame American women have made themselves undesirable.

I advise trying to be cautiously optimistic and have a backup plan.
You should already have been video chatting almost daily. Why
would you wait to do this?

What if she is 60lbs overweight and her photos are 10 years old?
Better to find out now than later.

I hope everything works out great. Check in after you've met her
in person. Getting her a US visa is tricky but not impossible.

Udachi!

Bill

[Trenchcoat]

Thanks again for all of the advice. We message each other on whatapp and can voice chat. I definitely will video chat before I book a trip in February. If all goes well I'll have her come to the U.S and see if everything is up to standards on my end.
It's a shame American women have made themselves undesirable.

How old are you and her?

I'm not a fan of western women either. I'm UK so don't have much experience of US women but I gather they are somewhat similar. I personally like FSW as they seem a lot more serious about dating and family, I just find them easier to get with.

What are your thoughts about a meet up with her in the near future?

[Davo]

I guess I’m a semi newbie still and guys like ML, Jumper and Bill have massively more experience than I do...... The only advantage I have over them is current experience on the legit dating sites and I’ve meet a lot of women over the last 5 years online and a couple of very nice women in real life...... I’ve also dabbled on most the scam sites, just for the experience.

The scam sites use a lot of subtle anti western women / feminism propaganda to attract victims..... If you start sprouting this propaganda to real FSU women they will probably avoid you like the plague..... I’ve been told directly by FSU women not to bother messaging back if I have hang ups about women in my country, because often men with that attitude aren’t datable in any country. You only need to watch the love me documentary to see what I’m taking about.

My impression is the only advantage FSU dating has is a much larger dating pool and women are more likely to reply to initial messages.....You will still find all the issues you face in the west with women because women are the same all over the world. They can be good, bad or in between..... Definitely I’ve found more mental and personally issues, more deception, scammers and women with ulterior motives on FSU sites over western sites...... I’d guess that combined, 90 percent of all profiles across all sites (including tinder) are an out right scam or a woman with deceptive motives...... The moment you put them on a pedestal over western women as a whole, you ignore obvious red flags and chalk it up to “cultural differences”...... I know, I’ve done this myself.

I’ve only used tinder as a dating tool in my country, but I know a few guys who have used it in Ukraine.....One member here has had relative success, but two other guys I know have only found pro-daters..... What should have given them away before they met was like any scammer on genuine sites and that is lack of calls and video chat..... They might have 20 guys on the go to maximise their success. They’ll put off video chatting as long as possible, as it’s just another hassle too deal with on top of messaging.

My experience with genuine women online is every one has video chatted within a week and once when I had internet issues, she dumped me as I missed our first planned chat...... Every women who hasn’t asked to videos chat immediately or come up with excuses has been a scammer...... Video chat it your main scam verification tool and for women too. You have the biggest single red flag during the online period you need to address, before you even consider going to meet her.

 Genuine women don’t have months to waste messaging. They video chat immediately to see if there is chemistry and if there isn’t, dump you immediately and move onto the next prospect..... With almost no exception that’s how it works with all genuine women who like you after a few messages.

I first come into this with rose coloured glasses, and even being luckily enough to meet some wonderful women in real life, I now realise this isn’t an easy way to find your 2nd half......Although it’s an adventure and rewarding, it’s also challenging, frustrating and for most brings many moments of disappointment ...... As bill says - This isn’t for entry level daters.

[Trenchcoat]

I think Davo is right in avoiding talking about western women in a negative way even if there are negatives, best not to risk it messing up a relationship with it. You could probably get away with them being more into careers than family but all the other stuff well let's say it doesn't really matter so long as you can get with a good FSW.

I'm not sure on the 90 percent scammer/deceptive motives that Davo quotes. I think that is probably true for the more prettier girls on those sites. That and age etc can play a part, if there is a big age gap, the guy looks a state, balding, ugly, fat, old & tired looking, badly dressed, etc, etc he's going to be making himself a greater risk to girls who will see him no longer as a relationship prospect but for some other reason. Deceptive motives can vary and can turn up over time and vary in extent I think.

I think there are a fair amount of girls who are genuine on free sites such as Fdate but they will most likely at best be everyday average looking and likely be difficult in relationships, by that I mean that almost from the offset they will be objectionable possibly even prickly or arbitrary, etc It's why they are on there. Other than that they could just have a lesser deceptive motive other than to find love itself like a guy who can provide, find a guy as a pension plan, to get in a country where their kid can do well, better living conditions, etc, etc.

OP I think the best thing you can do at the moment is follow it along and see how it turns out. It might go the distance and you've lucked in. Some people's chances are better as they are above average looking, they don't care too much if someone is overly forthright, etc. Odds are that let things run long enough and any problem will out itself.

[Davo]

Trench my 90 % figure is a guess if you pooled every profile from all sites, legit and scam. I come to this conclusion after signing up to most of the PPL sites as a non paying member. I’ve got literally thousands of messages (2-3 times the total k1 visas on a non covid year)  from models even though my profiles are so ridiculously unattractive to any genuine woman...... Even free sites like Russian flirting have netted 100’s of email scammers and not one genuine woman. Fdating is a good site, but if you message or are messaged by an attractive women under thirty you probably have a 2 in 3 chance that she’s an email scammer. They are even getting cunning and using average women’s pictures and have moved to WhatsApp, with broken cameras and speakers.

My guestimate is there’s over 100,000 Russian and Ukrainian dating profiles on the internet and at best 5000 - 10,000 might be legit..... You only need to look at the numbers of men traveling to FSU countries and marriage statistics to see most never get close to meeting a genuine woman and most just get scammed by PPL sites and Prodaters...... Of course most of these men scam themselves by thinking that hot young model want a man twice her age and a simple google search would tell them they have probably fell in love with a male letter writer.

If you want to see just how bad it is, join Russian flirting (free) and dream singles (PPL). AFA have got such a bad name they re badged as loveme and then branched out with Odessa woman and Kiev woman..... I’ve been banned from all AFA sites because of some truthful YouTube comments to stop a guy signing up to a tour...... I gave enough away for them to find my profile and then my email address.

Op, after saying all that..... If you’re aren’t broke, keep yourself in reasonable shape, are a confident man, don’t carry negative baggage regarding women, follow the rules for success, use the legit sites and most importantly are realistic with age gaps and expectations, then you will have a good chance of success.