Learning basic Russian

[ukthesis]

Have guys on here an opinion on the value or otherwise of us learning basic Russian language to communicate with the eastern ladies?  I know that many of the ladies over there appreciate the guys at least trying to learn the words to communicate and sometimes, if the lady's English is not that good, your helping out with your own form of the Russian language helps gets things along again.  In addition, I know that the more adventrous among the guys have been known to visit places like the Ukraine to see the landscape for themselves and to make friends over there.  Without a basic grasp of Russian, it's hard to communicate.  In my own experience of Moldova, although some there do speak English, it's only to varying degrees.  And quite often the locals over there speak hardly any English, if any.  So it comes in useful to know the basics of Russian to get along.

For those guys who bothered to learn this language, have they any tips on the best ways to learn this language at the basic level to speak and listen to?

[CDW]

If you are expecting her to move and live with you in your country, she must learn your language, otherwise you learn Russian!

[SANDRO43]

For those guys who bothered to learn this language, have they any tips on the best ways to learn this language at the basic level to speak and listen to?

Have a look at this page in our RWDPedia:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php/Learn_Russian .

[ukthesis]

If you go to the country she lives in, which is expected, several times before she is even considered as suitable to live in your own country permanently by the immigration people, it is a handicap if you have to hope that you can find people who are decent enough English speakers over there.  For example, here in the UK, the immigration authority would not consider that you and the lady in question were in a serious enough relationship to let her into the UK as a potential bride if you have not visited her several times in her own country, where quite often good English speakers are thin on the ground.  So you would see her family and friends over there and get a general impression of her life, which also helps the guy better understand her background and motives.  This is a requirement the UK Border Agency enforces to stop bogus marriages in which the marriage is simply a way of getting UK citizenship.

I know of at least one other instance where the guy in question travelled across the Ukraine to meet ladies he had previously chatted to on Skype.  So he visited them over there, one after the other, in one trip from the States, perhaps to save time and money.  He claimed to be able to get by with just an online translator, but the problem there is once they reply, you have no idea what they say!  Then you have the expense of paying for a human translator.

[Turboguy]

Learning Russian may be easier said than done.   Languages never came easy for me.  Even in School when I studied French it was my most difficult subject.  You may be younger and have more ability to pick up languages than I do but I found it much harder to learn Russian than it was for French or Spanish or Italian where the alphabet and the languages are similar. 


I spent thousands of hours with a bunch of different programs including Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone and many others and really could not ever communicate in Russian even though I can say a few things and understand a few things.  Still I found it helpful when traveling there.  At least I could read street signs and identify a restaurant.  I would suggest learning some Russian.  It can't hurt but I doubt that you will learn enough to communicate any better than you could with an electronic device or the internet.  Still I would say go for it.

[ukthesis]

Thanks for the advice.  I would say, in my early 60s, I am not younger than you.  But I would give it a go, if I have the time.  I have been to Moldova a number of times and while my friends speak some English, and my fiancee over there speaks good English, if I want to go out shopping  for example, I would quickly run into this language barrier.   I am told that to get to grips with basic Russian required about 2-3 hours of online lessons a week, if you use skype, and the tutor should give you homework to revise.  So it needs to be taken quite seriously.  One even told me (helpfully?) that it is not fun, but instead it is hard work.

Here is my email if you want to tell me your experiences more, which I would appreciate:

ukthesis@yahoo.com

For example, some people think that Rosetta Stone is great, but it's quite expensive and I am trying to learn basic Russian without spending a lot of money on the process.

So at this stage I am interested in those who have tried a few different ways of doing this to give me advice on what, in their opinion, works best.  And I know that each person learns differently, but I'm interested in the different approaches to this that they take and the learning tools they use.

[ukthesis]

Another point is that the UK government is strict on issuing even travel visas to people from former Soviet countries like the Ukraine.  The advice I got is not to waste time and money trying to even get one.  The feeling in the UK government is that too many of the people from that region overstay their visas and work illegally in the UK.  So the alternative method of getting to know a lady living over there by her repeatedly coming to see you in the UK is not a practical possibility.  So you have to go to her country to satisfy the UK Border Agency that your relationship is a "genuine" one.

[CDW]

the Ukraine. 

LOL

You got it from Sean Connery in a James Bond film ???!!!

[ukthesis]

Very helpful, thanks!

[Chicagoguy]

When my wife [then fiancé] had her K1 visa interview in Moscow she was only asked 1 question. He asked her "how do you communicate if you speak no English and he speaks no Russian". A logical question. Her reply was that she took to time to translate all emails. The interviewer replied " fine, you are approved".

I didn't understand. Maybe it was because she was cute and smiling ?  Maybe she was just lucky.

I am older and was never good with languages. Can people understand my High School Latin 

[jone]

Two quick free advice items for learning Russian:

www.masterrussian.com  will teach you the Cyrillic characters and even quiz you on your knowledge of the alphabet

and www.byki.com will get you started on an easy software platform for free. 

These two free tools will get you to the point where you can read street signs and have basic vocabulary skills.  Nothing too fancy, but will allow you to say simple words.

As for getting a Visa: If you don't try, it ain't a gonna happen.  I know the US system.  My advice on this is to get support from your local MP.  It works wonders when your fiancee is applying for a visa.

[CDW]

I will only start learning Russian when I get girlfriend otherwise my future girlfriend could be from Mars - then I have to learn Martian!

[ukthesis]

Thanks I will try them.  I get the impression that learning a new language is not easy.  And there are no short cuts.  If you have the commitment, money and the time, it's obviously easier to do. 

In terms of the US immigration system, I have no idea.  But here in the UK, the government decided to set "targets" to cut overseas immigration down to, and they are trying every possible means to achieve this target for political reasons.  There is a lot of pressure to reduce immigration to the UK, as any of your members living in the UK will attest to.  So I just don't think that going to my MP is going to make a difference. 

The UK Border Agency has a way of doing this and if they are perceived as backsliding, by relaxing the rules, there would be merry hell to pay.  The UK has a deserved reputation for being harder than any other country in the European Union to get into legally.  Even travel agents in the east who can, because of their profession, get into other EU states as part of their job, find it impossible to get a visa for the UK.

[mendeleyev]

Of course I am partial to the Learning Russian resources at the Mendeleyev Journal. 

Take a look at:

Learning the alphabet. http://russianreport.wordpress.com/russian-language/learn-the-cyrillic-alphabet/

A quite extensive listing of resources, most free. http://russianreport.wordpress.com/russian-language/russian-language-resources/

Basic grammar. http://russianreport.wordpress.com/russian-language/russian-grammar/

Learning to read signs. http://russianreport.wordpress.com/russian-language/learn-to-read-russian-signs/

Learn basic numbers and days of the week. http://russianreport.wordpress.com/russian-language/russian-numbers/

[Gator]

ukthesis,

Learning some Russian deepens your understanding of your woman.  Also, she will consider it a sign of respect, and unlike the French she will gladly suffer though your mispronunciations.  And a little Russian at the right moment can work wonders. 


My suggestion is to learn first the alphabet (both character and sound).  In fact, do it immediately (should take no more than 3-4 hours to be good at it).  Next, learn about 200 words and a few useful phrases.  With such knowledge you can read street signs, and you can by yourself navigate easily around a city with just a map.   

Plus, as you see shop signs, etc.  words and alphabet are reinforced.  Thus, when you see the word "ресторан" on many shop fronts you will not be bewildered, wondering why so many have spelled part of their sign in English.  Instead, you will know that the word is spelled in Cyrillic, and is pronounced in Russian as "restaurant."   

If you have an "ear" and a patient, empathetic lady friend to help you, you will be surprised what you can pickup.  I say "ear" because it seems people who are not tone deaf and are good at music tend to learn conversational Russian quickly.

Good luck!

[krimster2]

I lived three years in Ukraine, and with my wife's help (and later even my bi-lingual daughter) learned enough Russian to do shopping, and have basic conversations.  My approach was to forget the alphabet and grammar and instead focus on phrases and then increase my vocabulary.  So I'd start with something like "yaha choo kopeet..." (I want to buy...") and then learn some nouns like "piva" (beer), and words like "kuda" "shto", etc.  numbers, "edin,dva, tree, chiteery", I'd also carry a calculator and notepad, I found I was able to go into any store in Ukraine and buy anything I wanted, and have simple conversations with anyone. I did this by practicing no more than 10 minutes per day, and ended up with a vocabulary of about 200 words, and about 50 phrases, combine different words and phrases and I was able to deal with just about anything, except the meter reader lady, she came to the door one day, rapidly rattled off something in Russian, the only word I understood was "smatree" (look), I told her "ya n'ponelle" (I don't understand), she repeated everything, but this time at the top of her voice!  I replied, "Ooshkie, h'orrosho, ya ponelle russki choot choot"!!  ha,ha

[ukthesis]

Thanks guys for the helpful advice.  I have learned a few Russian phrases like the one for Good Morning and Glad to Meet you, and what price is it (Stolka eta stiot (ph.)) not forgetting spiceba, harrasho, ba-jalsta and Paka or Dasvidania (ph), and it does go down nicely with the listener that at least I am making a stab at the language, so yes you guys are right. 

One point though.  I did look at the Russian alphabet and it would, I am positive, take me a whole lot longer than the 3-4 hours you noted to be good at!  Just in terms of speaking the language, the letters took me quite a long time, and that's without trying to read the letters in Russian.  Then you have to keep in practising otherwise you quickly become rusty, as I did.  Not to mention applying the Russian letters to words.  I once had a go at this, and the way I pronounced the words after seeing the alphabet in English sometimes had no relation to the way the word should have been spoken in Russian.

[Anotherkiwi]

I'll second the view that learning at least the basics will get you Brownie points, as well as being obviously helpful when you're out and about.

One point though.  I did look at the Russian alphabet and it would, I am positive, take me a whole lot longer than the 3-4 hours you noted to be good at!  Just in terms of speaking the language, the letters took me quite a long time, and that's without trying to read the letters in Russian.  Then you have to keep in practising otherwise you quickly become rusty, as I did.  Not to mention applying the Russian letters to words.  I once had a go at this, and the way I pronounced the words after seeing the alphabet in English sometimes had no relation to the way the word should have been spoken in Russian.

This surprises me somewhat.  Don't be intimidated by the alphabet - it's no worse than trying to pronounce "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!"  Just take a little bit of time, then realise that there are only four letters the same as English - A, K, M and T.  Others look the same (E, H, O, P) but aren't.  Although I admit that Russian is not especially easy to learn, the big advantage over English is that nearly every word is pronounced EXACTLY the way it is spelt (disregarding mumbles and running letters together!).  Of course there are exceptions, but nothing like (for example) bough, cough, rough, though and through.    Once you have that stuck in your head you will progress in leaps and bounds.

[SANDRO43]

Then you have to keep in practising otherwise you quickly become rusty, as I did.

Well, you stumbled on a basic fact about learning foreign languages, viz. that regular practice is ESSENTIAL .

Concerning Cyrillic, it would have helped having studied Classical Greek: most of the former's letters are a direct loan from the latter's uppercase script with the same pronounciation, unsurprisingly so since the developers of that alphabet were lazy - but clever - Greek monks .   

[SANDRO43]

Of course there are exceptions, but nothing like (for example) bough, cough, rough, though and through. 

Plenty more here : http://www.floriani.it/Miscellanea-eng.htm#Haphazardest

[Dave13]

Just learning a few words does help, I used the Pimsleur CD's it gives you the basic start and it does bring a smile to your lady and of course a few laughs with the way we pronounce certain words!     

[calmissile]

One of the first phrases to learn after you have a girlfriend is 'Yes Dear'!   It sound something like 'da, deragiya'.....

[ukthesis]

Thanks again guys. 

I did a bit of work before now with one of the free language exchange systems, where you offer English for their Russian.  But these people are largely not trained teachers.  And I noticed that there was no structure or plan to what they were "teaching" me.  In fact, teaching isn't the right word.  What they would do is to ask me what Russian phrase I wanted to learn.  Or in another case, he gave me a list of 100 commonly used Russian words (written in English also) and wanted me to try to remember them.

Now, this is fine.  Any learning of Russian is good.  But I didn't get any sense that I was getting to grips with it.  So the sessions with these guys were not actually, I felt, going forward in any strong sense. 

They basically came to Skype with me without any idea of what they were going to discuss, and so it was left for me to suggest some Russian words or phrases I would like to learn.  Or they gave me these individual words to learn.  I was later told that is's better to learn phrases than individual words to place them in context and to understand their place.

So I'm after something that has a plan or direction and that is organized in stepping stones, starting from a base and moving upwards in this language learning in an orderly way.

[lmshima57]

I have been studying Russian for about 5 years intermittently.
I have tried Rosetta Stone (the three part series), Pimsleur,
and I am currently using RussianPod101.  I can read simple
things, but my conversation, particular understanding is not
very good.  As far as conversation, I agree that learning common
phrases rather than individual words and grammar are the best
way to being able to communicate.

I have some Russian friends and when I learn a new phrase, I
will say it and if they can figure out what I am saying, they will
correct my pronunciation.  I went out to dinner with a friend's
mother who was visiting from Russia and spoke little English.
I used a translation application on my iPhone where I can speak
in English and it will say the translation in Russian and write the
phrase for me to read.  This application which was free was more
helpful than an electronic translator by Ectaco that cost me about
$400.  I think that this can be used to learn the phrases that you
would use regularly.

I read The New Penguin Russian Course by Nicholas Brown which
was helpful and Colloquial Russian 1 and 2 by Svetlana la Fleming
and Susan E. Kay which I found helpful.  From a cost effective
standpoint, the Living Russian course was a bargain at $50.  I think
I paid over $500 for Rosetta Stone and $700 for Pimsleur.  I think
both can be purchased at a steep discount on the internet now.

I like to watch movies and when I am in Ukraine, I will buy movies
with both English and Russian audio and subtitles.  I have found that
sometimes the translation quality is not perfect, but I have still found
this helpful.  Also, I watching classic Russian movies helps me to
understand Russian culture.  I subscribe to Russian One channel via
my cable provider as well.

[ukthesis]

Thanks again.  What was the name of this one you referred to? "I used a translation application on my iPhone where I can speak
in English and it will say the translation in Russian and write the phrase for me to read."

There are a number of free online "courses" you can take in Russian.  I have some on my bookmarks.  Not sure if they would give as good value as the paying services.  I have heard that Rosetta Stone, though expensive, does seem to work well if one perseveres with the language.  I wonder what their secret is?

In the UK, and no doubt in the USA, you can pay for a professional tutor to come on Skype to give lessons.  In the UK, the rate for these people is about £20 in GB pounds an hour, so they are not cheap when you consider the many lessons that will be needed.

Another point.  I assumed that to simply go out shopping in places like the Ukraine, the ability to speak and listen to Russian is more important that reading and writing Russian.  You can often get by if you speak the lingo without actually being able to read it.  After all, if you see a sign, you can ask a passerby what it says.  But if you focus more on reading of Russian, it won't get you far in your shopping if you need to ask an assistant a question about a product. 

Yet I think this assumption or approach is something that can be disputed. Some tutors try for example to get one to read Cyrillic as well as to speak it, and to speak it when knowing what the word means in English.  This takes quite a lot longer though and is more taxing of the brain!