All Good Things Come to an End

[Misha]

While it's true that the mind can win over and convince a person that they should be married because the two are "right for each other," and while these marriages do work, I'm in favor of holding out for that marriage that has chemistry, as well as logic.

I made that mistake: I married a woman that I reasoned would be good for me. There was no chemistry and it made for a horrible marriage. I agree that a person should hold out for chemistry as well as logic and this should be shared by both.

[2tallbill]

gabaub, I think your thoughts are good material for another thread.

Maybe the moderators can separate it from I/Os thread

Just my two kopecks

Bill

[I/O]

Very interesting. Have been at the coast for the weekend with my new family and come home to read where this thread has gone. What a pleasure to read KenC's comment up thread regarding why did everyone think I was dieing with loneliness and then to read JB's post which goes down IMO as one of the classics on RWD.

JB I thank you for your implied compliment and I guess my view is this, the long long times we spent apart gave us more than ample opportunity to lose interest in each other, but the opposite happened. I found myself being settled and comfortable with my fate from a long time out and as a side note which I haven't revealed before, prior to my wife's final arrival in Aus, it was almost 12 months since we had seen each other. :hairraising: I found myself being slightly breathtaken when she appeared out of customs at the airport. I really had forgotten just how beautiful she was rather than the other thing of over imagining her quality.

The summary is this, I had a very good life single, I had all I needed and then some, but ultimately meeting my now wife, made me realise I wanted more, not needing more, but wanting more. I can safely say, even at this early stage, (As I have known for ages she would) she has given me that "More" and then a whole lot more besides.

Just remember guys, one is not lonely being single and wishing themselves married, but one is very lonely being married and wishing themselves single. Think about it before you complicate yours and someone elses life.

I/O

[jb]

I/O,

Ms Ash predicted some wouldn't "get it", and she was right judging from some responses. 

JB I thank you for your implied compliment and I guess my view is this, the long long times we spent apart gave us more than ample opportunity to lose interest in each other, but the opposite happened.

My point exactly,  I didn't know about the 12 month separation, but I'll bet good money there was countless hours spent improving communications skills, building a rock solid relationship, and learning everything there is to know about each other during that time apart.  While I'm sure you missed the physical intimacy, didn't it become secondary to the love that was growing between you? 

I'm more than sure you and your new family have a decent shot at long term success, simply because you've already weathered the biggest storm you are likely to face. 

[Gator]

Anastasia asked,

If you are indeed happy being single why going into trouble with all this RW thing?

Good question.  I am hardwired to live as a couple, to bond with someone else (aren’t we all?).  And somehow my time with RW has been more interesting and fulfilling, and the connection stronger.  After nearly six years of RW, I am well past the novelty stage and the initial chemistry stage, so there must be some substance to the “RW thing”. 

One can be lonely but not alone. And i suppose one can be alone but not lonely.

I like your first statement and KenC’s comment says it all, “I was much more lonely during the end of my first marriage than I was after.” 

So why was I not “lonely” when single?  Being a man, I do enjoy the hunt.  Hunting can be fun and fulfilling even if one does not bag anything.  Please - this transcends sexual conquests.  “Hunting” to me is the social interaction of exploring life’s possibilities with an interesting woman.  Nevertheless, I did not want to hunt forever; I sincerely wanted to find a woman who makes me forget about all other women.  I have one and my hunting days are over. 

If one wishes to criticize me, one can say that I was too careful, preferring to live alone than live with the wrong woman.  Part of that is having learned from my many past mistakes and not wishing to repeat them.   I am not as bad as a couple of my friends who are contented with living alone as confirmed bachelors simply because no one is telling them what to do.  They certainly satisfy Sandro’s criteria (good list):

being at ease with myself, satisfied with/entertained by my various interests, etc. and basically "at peace" with no major hassles.

[KenC]

Anastasia asked,

Good question.  I am hardwired to live as a couple, to bond with someone else (aren’t we all?).  And somehow my time with RW has been more interesting and fulfilling, and the connection stronger.  After nearly six years of RW, I am well past the novelty stage and the initial chemistry stage, so there must be some substance to the “RW thing”. 

I like your first statement and KenC’s comment says it all, “I was much more lonely during the end of my first marriage than I was after.” 

So why was I not “lonely” when single?  Being a man, I do enjoy the hunt.  Hunting can be fun and fulfilling even if one does not bag anything.  Please - this transcends sexual conquests.  “Hunting” to me is the social interaction of exploring life’s possibilities with an interesting woman.  Nevertheless, I did not want to hunt forever; I sincerely wanted to find a woman who makes me forget about all other women.  I have one and my hunting days are over. 

If one wishes to criticize me, one can say that I was too careful, preferring to live alone than live with the wrong woman.  Part of that is having learned from my many past mistakes and not wishing to repeat them.   I am not as bad as a couple of my friends who are contented with living alone as confirmed bachelors simply because no one is telling them what to do.  They certainly satisfy Sandro’s criteria (good list):

Gator,
The truly well rounded man will take his new found freedom after divorce and explore himself to the fullest.  I remember that intially after my divorce, I was scared as hell because I was unsure of how my life would play out as a single man.  Having been married for all of my adult life (married at 21), I really didn't know who I was without being 1/2 of Mr & Mrs C.  That fear quickly turned into an exhilarating sense of freedom to become all that I could be.  I will always remember those times fondly as my rebirth as the man I am today.  Quite frankly, I like the version "B" much better than the first married version.
Some men will allow a divorce to ruin their lives, while others take it as an opportunity to grow and expand themselves.  Those that grow and learn from the experience are much more in demand from the opposite sex.  Those men that do not use the opportunity in this manner and choose to wallow in their own misery find it very difficult to fit into the social scene again, if ever.
KenC

[SANDRO43]

an exhilarating sense of freedom to become all that I could be.  I will always remember those times fondly as my rebirth as the man I am today.  Quite frankly, I like the version "B" much better than the first married version.

Ken, most of the above was my experience, too. However, I'm none too sure about:

Those that grow and learn from the experience are much more in demand from the opposite sex.

Many women seem to lose interest, once they see their "mother's/Florence Nightingale's" instinct is not really applicable .

[KenC]

Ken, most of the above was my experience, too. However, I'm none too sure about:Many women seem to lose interest, once they see their "mother's/Florence Nightingale's" instinct is not really applicable .

Sandro,
I am sure women's "motherly instincts" do kick in to save some poor pathetic man, but those sympathies are usually short lived.  Strong, confident and independent people (yes, women too) are like lighting rods and attract others of the same like qualities IMO.
KenC

[I/O]

JB: The gravity of your recent posts in this thread deserve some considered response. (Not to underestimate previous posts.)

Time apart: A couple has two choices when they are apart long term. They can suffer the stress of distance or they can turn it into an opportunity to further develop aspects of their relationship which may not, under normal circumstances, ever be developed, or at least only have limited development. As we have discovered, one can learn and learn about each other but still only have limited knowledge. The increasing of that knowledge is part of the fun of being married. (The opportunity to learn and enjoy more and more about the other person)

Phyiscal intimacy: (Or the lack of it in distance relationships)  It should be the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself. Mind you, now we are together, we both seem to rather like icing......Go figure. Perhaps we have a sweet tooth. However, the thing guys need to understand is that even with the aid of modern medicine, you can't f__k 24 hours per day when together so you had better have a deep "Liking" of the other person on a companionship basis. Further, if a guy starting out in this process thinks he is going to solve his immediate physical loneliness in short order, he is better going someplace else. Neither my wife nor myself are exactly ugly and we could have well satisfied ourselves in this area locally at any time rather than chasing rainbows halfway around the world. Long term may be another story, but short term physical satisfaction is NOT going to come (Pardon the pun) by persuing a Russian woman.

While I'm sure you missed the physical intimacy, didn't it become secondary to the love that was growing between you?

Yes of course....!!! And we now have plenty of opportunity to make up for any lost time. (If in fact it could be called lost time) I would say that we were never particularly concious of what we were doing (Working on other aspects of our relationship) but rather followed our natural desire to spend time together by whatever means available. Much of that was SMS and in this way we simply became more and more part of each other's daily routine lives. In this respect, not much has changed now. (Please exuse me whilst I resist the urge to strangle and answer another SMS)

you and your new family have a decent shot at long term success

However, that is exactly what it is, "A Shot" and nothing is ever certain. I recall a comment you made sometime back which eluded to the fact there is no certainties, but rather the opportunity to work hard together to give yourselves the best opportunity. IMO to many people fall into the trap of being married and believing the future is certain. (I probably did that the first time around years back also)

you've already weathered the biggest storm you are likely to face.

I'll let my jury remain "Out" on this one. I sincerely hope you are correct, and if so, then we are looking forward to some fairly pleasant times as that storm was what it was, but it was not all that difficult in the bigger scheme of things.

The separation was forced upon us to an extent as we were in the waiting phase of the visa process and every time we got tired and I said, ok enough is enough, you are comming to visit or I am comming to visit, we would slap each other with a reality check that the visa might be approved tomorrow and although such a trip would not be wasted, it might well be somewhat less important, thus we waited and waited........................alas, all good things came to an end.

I have read so many comments from various people saying that two people can only stand a short time apart early on or the relationship will fall apart. (3 months is often considered the maximum allowable time apart) Frankly I have long considered this falls into the same catagory as the so called chemistry thing. A fair amount of p!ss and wind and not much substance. If the relationship is relying on chemistry (largely physical attraction) and time together, it is IMO doomed from the get go, although it may well last a few years.

KenC: A summary of your comments might read, "Get your phriggen act together as a man and then you just might be ready for a wife. To rely on getting a wife to fix your problems is a recipe for disaster". A wife will certainly give you more problems, allbeit maybe some good problems at times.

I/O

[KenC]

KenC: A summary of your comments might read, "Get your phriggen act together as a man and then you just might be ready for a wife. To rely on getting a wife to fix your problems is a recipe for disaster".

Yeah, that does about sum things up.
KenC

[I/O]

The truly well rounded man

..................................is a result of a Russian woman doing the bulk of the cooking.......go figure.

I/O

[jb]

I/O,

It was not my intention to stir up the pot when I posted up thread, mostly I was bored and that post was aimed more directly at some very recent trollish posts from some of the newbies who seemed to think they already had all the answers.  One or two of those new folks have never set foot in the FSU, but had met a Russian or two locally and thus already knew all about eastern European culture, but every post just revealed a further lack of understanding of what they were talking about.   Then, oddly, some of the old hands posted, also showing a complete lack of understanding.  I had figured that everyone who had been to the FSU a time or two, and had tried his hand at courting a FSUW would understand what I had written.  But then I noticed those who said what they did, had not been successful. 

Some people don't learn from their own mistakes, some people can't learn from other's, while others refuse to learn at all. 

[I/O]

I/O,

It was not my intention to stir up the pot when I posted up thread

JB: I for one certainly didn't see your post as stirring the pot, but rather a very decent post which touched on some very pertinent issues. If this thread achieves nothing more than having a few guys read that post, then it was well worth starting, even if it did take umpteen pages to get to that stage.

Interestingly, my wife writes in another couple of forums (I can't get her in here at this stage because she doesn't consider her English is up to the mark) and everytime she doesn't say exactly what the dreamseekers want to hear, they try to jump all over her. Funny how she has done what they are dreaming of doing and yet she of course knows nothing in their view. Strange animals we youmin beans.

I/O

[I/O]

sorry i'm so late to the party,,

is all the cake gone?   

AJ: We have duely, as is tradition, kept the top tier of the cake only to be consumed upon birth of the first child. I hope there is good preservative in the cake as that could be quite a while. (Not for the want of practice BTW) Consider yourself, along with all others here invited to the party when the time comes.

I/O

[KenC]

AJ: We have duely, as is tradition, kept the top tier of the cake only to be consumed upon birth of the first child. I hope there is good preservative in the cake as that could be quite a while. (Not for the want of practice BTW) Consider yourself, along with all others here invited to the party when the time comes.

I/O

I/O,
Go with the American tradition and eat that sucker on your one year anniversary!
KenC

[I/O]

I/O,
Go with the American tradition and eat that sucker on your one year anniversary!KenC

If you and yours turn up down here to help then it's a deal...!!!

I/O

[I/O]

Whilst driving to a meeting yesterday I was curtly reminded (By guess who) that it had been a month to the day since our wedding.  And................the skeptics said it wouldn't last.

I/O

[KenC]

Whilst driving to a meeting yesterday I was curtly reminded (By guess who) that it had been a month to the day since our wedding.  And................the skeptics said it wouldn't last.

I/O

I guess that makes you an "OMB"?
 

[I/O]

I guess that makes you an "OMB"?
 

KenC: If that means Old......Married......and an absolute Bastard, then I guess it fits. Ah well ya take the hand that life deals ya. (Mind you, I would give myself a year or few before I would claim to join the ranks of the real OMB's of RWD, we's got a way to goes yet....bloody long way)

I/O

[I/O]

The next stage of this journey has been Christmas. Not much need to say more than the below picture indicates. Just wish I was his age again.

I/O

[I/O]

One more small notch in this very long belt punched. Provisional resident visa granted and affixed to the passport yesterday. Provisional is converted automatically after 2 years to a Resident visa providing the provision (Our marriage) is upheld. Pretty big step covered in this one yesterday. 83 pages of documents in the final submission. Fairly upbeat trip back home from the office of the department of immigration yesterday, a very good bottle of wine and a suitable amount of Russian chocolate consumed in the evening.

I/O

[catzenmouse]

Congrats to you both! One more hurdle overcome.

[Shadow]

Congrats, to you both. At least the paperwork will not bother you for some time. 

[Jazzyclassy]

Congratulations that is very nice

I do not know I always fear about visa and things, do not know how I will get wife visa probably my hair will turn all grey 

but knowing that so many people succeed it feels so nice and easy

[Faux Pas]

I/O

A very interesting thread. Like AJ I was a bit late to the party but enjoyed the dancing nonetheless. Your play by play and color analyst has been very informative and also brought some other very good off topic questions to light. How about an update on your darts and laurels of wedded bliss to a RW? Anymore learning curves?