St.Pete's Trip Report Jan 2009

[daveyj]

This was my second visit, having previously visiting in Oct of last year (as per this report http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8589.0).   This time, I did much more preparation, including writing women from multiple agencies/websites and putting in quite a bit of time studying Russian.  This is a WMVM report.  Please let's keep any bickering or snide comments to a minimum. thx

Day 1
Flight was delayed, and I had to scramble to make my meeting with “L” on time.  I had met her through Mamba.ru, and I had not mentioned marriage/etc.  We were simply going on a first date.  Everything went very well, and we had a good time. Spent 6 hours together.  Interesting complex lady, albeit with poor English.

Day 2
I awoke late, recovering from jetlag, travel and a late night.  To my chagrin I had not heard from “J”, another Mamba.ru contact, about our meeting that night.  Although she had my cell number, I had only her email, and never contacted me for the duration of my stay.

At 4pm, I read the writing on the wall and accepted that I was going to be stood up.  I called “T”, an Elena’s girl.  She had been my #2 interest in the trip, and I had originally proposed a Day 2 or 3 meeting.  However having not heard from her until two days before my arrival I had made other plans, and when she heard that I was booked for the first 3 evenings she had seemed disappointed we would have to wait until later to meet. 

I told “T” that my Sat night plans had fallen through, and asked if she had plans.  She seemed very pleased and advised that she was heading out to a nightclub with friends, and invited me to join them.  I said sure, and she advised she would call back later with details.  At 10:30 I was dressed, and ready to dance, when I got a call from “T” advising that one of her main friends was ill and they were cancelling their plans.

Having been stood up by “J” and then a cancellation from “T”, it was a disappointing day.  I boosted my spirits by writing a message to “L” (from Day 1) telling her what a good time I had and asking about her plans for the next several days.  She responded in kind the next day, but advised she was going to be out of town for a couple of weeks.  A very disappointing day.

Day 3
The day before I had also not heard from “A” another Mamba contact, about our Day 3 plans.  Thus when “T” called to cancel the nightclub the previous night, we had made plans for dinner on Day 3.

We met, and had a very nice meal.  A smart lovely lady, with good English and a professional job.  As I walked her to the metro after a nice 3 hours, she walked very closely beside with our arms brushing lightly together.  A lovely end to a nice evening, and we agreed to touch base in a couple of days about meeting again.

Day 4
I had plans to meet “Y”, who had been the star from my first visit to Piter.  I had felt instantly comfortable with “Y” during that visit, and she had instantly become only the 3rd woman that I have ever wanted to marry. 

However, 6 weeks earlier when I had told her of my plans of a return visit she had responded with a cryptic response advising she would be too busy to see me.  I didn’t push the issue, and we maintained regular correspondance including photo’s of her villages/etc.  I simply accepted that for whatever reason, she was not interested and didn’t press for an explanation. 

We continued to email on a friendly basis, but I had turned my attention more towards Elena’s/Bride.ru/CuteOnly/Mamba girls.

In the end, once I arrived “Y” of course agreed to meet, and now was the night.

As soon as she came in, everything felt great.  Just as it had during my first visit.  It feel instantly comfortable ,just as it had during my first visit.   I had chosen a restaurant close to my apartment, and after a nice meal with liberal amounts of alcohol we went back to my apartment for nightcap.  I had brought a map of my hometown, and I showed her key landmarks.  She then logged on to her Russian facebook page,  and began showing me some new pictures.  As she showed me various pictures, she casually pointed to one of her “boyfriend”.
 
!!??

I had figured he must surely be out the picture by now?!  I tried to seem nonchalant and asked how serious was their relationship.  She smiled happily and told me he had recently proposed and they were getting married in the summer (!!).

...lol...WTF? 

Too funny.  Here I am perched on the couch and on the verge of launching an intercontinental liplock missile on this girl, and she is engaged?? It appears that my arrival on the scene back in Oct lit a fire under the boyfriend and he ponied up an engagement ring.

Ah well, such is life.  At least my effort to get married have worked out for someone!

Anyway, I’m truly happy for her – I think she is a great girl, albeit a little strange, and we’re still friends.  No hard feelings on my part, and we’ve continued to email as friends since my return home after my trip.

Day 5
I had left Day 5 open, thinking that by this time I would be ready for a 2nd date with someone.  But with 2 noshows, one girl engaged, one out of town, I only had one option “T” but it was too short notice for Day 5 of course.  I called “T” and scheduled a 2nd date for Day 7.  I also called “K”, who was a Bride.ru girl.  I had had a brief correspondence with her some weeks earlier, but had not followed up, simply because I had little info from her profile, and had thought I had too many prospects on the go already (A mistaken belief I now realised).  She was delighted to hear from me, and we made plans for the next night.   
So I spent Day 5 on my own.

Day 6
Got a call from “K” advising she had an exam in a couple of days, and felt she needed to stay in and study.  She was very apologetic, and I told her it was of course not a problem and perfectly understandable and we rescheduled for Day 8.
I spent Day 6 on my own.

Day 7
Called “T” about our 2nd date scheduled for that evening, and she advised she had to cancel because she had a keyboard listed for sale, and someone was coming by that evening to look at it.  We rescheduled for Day 9 (which was my last day in town, to be followed by an early morning flight home)
I spent Day 7 on my own.

Day 8
Spoke with “K” and she suggested I join her and some friends to celebrate the end of their exams.  It seemed a little strange to me, and I was curious as to what they would make of me.  She was unconcerned and said we would just say we met on the internet.

We met at 9pm, and then walked to the planned restaurant where we were meeting the rest of her  friends.  They mostly spoke English, and we had a great time over the course of the evening.  However, I spent a lot of time talking with her friends, and not too much one-on-one time with her.  At one point, I figured I’d leave the table for 10 minutes and see if she even noticed (or became concerned) that I was gone.  I was hanging out at the edge of the dance floor when a slow song came on.  About 2 minutes into the slow song “K” came rushing over, having clearly been looking for me, and pulled me onto the dance floor and we had a nice dance.  Sadly,  I think that single moment represents the highlight of my trip. 

As we returned to the table where her friends were they were teasing me about “Who had I been dancing with, that “K” took me away from?”  “K” proudly told them I had danced only with her.  At this point I was looking forward to breaking away from the friends, and talking with “K” and learning more about her. 

But to my chagrin, about half an hour later, she told me she was tired from studying/exams and was heading home.

Still, considering how little preparation I had put into meeting her, the evening had gone quite well.  Also, after having spent the previous 3 days alone I was happy just to have some company. We messaged the next day, and it was nice to have met her, and I regret that I had not messaged her more prior to visiting Piter

Having said that, although I think that she is indeed serious about seeking a WM, I think she is simply too young for me.

Day 9
At 2pm I still hadn’t heard from “T” and her cellphone had been switched off all day.  I figured I’d best just accept the writing on the wall, and I sent her a message saying that I presumed she didn’t want to see me, and offering my regrets. 

At 6pm I got a call from her apologising and telling me she had been up until 7am at a party with friends, and had slept all day and was hung over and would not be able to see me.  But that she hoped I would continue to message her after I returned home.    She seemed confused and disappointed that I thought she didn’t want to see me.  I didn’t have the heart to point out to her that she had cancelled on me three times in less than a week.  I was very disappointed as I had seen real potential with her.

I spent Day 9 alone.

Summary
In summary my trip was very disappointing. As you can see, I had six cancellations out of 10 scheduled dates.  I’ve heard many complaints here on the board about “professional daters” and “scammers”.  Frankly, I would have been delighted to buy dinner for a professional daters/scammer, simply to have some company!

I had reviewed 500+ profiles of women from Piter  on the Elenas’s/CuteOnly/Bride.ru websites and I had messaged approx 90 of them in my chosen demographic (under 30 and a “7+”).  Of those 90, I received a reply from only about 15.  Of those 15, I had multiple emails with only 6.  Of those 6, 4 went email silent when I told them I was coming to town in 3 weeks.  Even after I follow up with those 4 advising that we could still meet for coffee perhaps as purely platonic friends, they still did not respond.

In addition, I also messaged 300 women on Mamba.ru and had regular messages with a dozen.  I did not mention marriage, although when they would ask why I was coming to Piter I would respond “I am looking for a wife of course! ;-)”.

However, the vibe changed when I was no longer just an online profile, but rather a flesh and blood western man in their city and I think that scared them off.  Of those dozen, I endeavoured to meet 6.  3 got evasive, although it may have just been scheduling problems.  3 agreed to meet, but two of them stood me up, and never responded to my single follow up message asking what happened, and telling them no hard feelings.

Also, I should point out that I sent all of my original letters in Russian (having had them professionally translated by the translators at Elena’s, and I continued to correspond in Russian unless the lady suggested switching to English).  Over the past 5 months I spent more than 200 hours studying Russian, including a weekly lesson with a private tutor.

As  a brief summary of the agenies/websites I used:
From Elena’s,
-I messaged about 30 women,had regular messages with 4, or which 3 went email silent when they heard I was coming to town and the fourth cancelled/rescheduled on me 3 times.
-I received unsolicited messages from about 40 women, mostly in their 30s from smaller towns in Russia & the Ukraine.  Only a couple of which I was interested in and have had regular messages.

From Bride.Ru
-I messaged about 30 women, had 3 respond, had regular messages with 1 (the aforementioned “K”).
-I received unsolicited messages from about 15 women, mostly in their 30s from smaller towns in Russia and the Ukraine. Only one I was interested in and have had regular messages.

From CuteOnly
-I messaged 25 women, had 2 respond, and a 3rd strangely did not respond but messaged me a non-personalized message a month later, apparently not realizing I had earlier messaged her?.  One of the two responses was a gushing email, sent a month after my initial enquiry, and arrived two days before I arrived in Piter.  But I received no response to my followup.  Similarly the third (the one that did not respond, but strangely sent a “form” message” a month later”) did not respond when I replied.
-I have had a deluge of 80 messages, all of which are non-personal messages which do not even mention my name, and quite frankly very few of them could be said to be “cute”, sorry.
-I have serious misgivings about the integrity of CuteOnly.  Whenever I logged on, and checked “who had just viewed me” there was always a view from a new lady (usually timed one minute before I logged on). 

In summary, I do not think that women in my desired demographic (under 30, 7+, cosmopolitan lifestyle living in St.Petersburg) have any serious interest in marriage with a foreign man.  I think there may be many who have profiles on the various websites, but for them it is merely a fun pastime to receive flattering messages from foreign men, and when it comes time to meet then they will shy away.  In particular, I was told by the two ladies that I met from Elena’s and Bride.ru that they have not told any of their friends that they are listed on a western man marriage website.   

I think that many women on the various marriage sites simply enjoy messaging/chatting with interesting foreign men, and enjoy the attention.  But there is a social stigma attached to marriage with a WM (in the same way that a stigma exists in the west for marriage to a FSUW).

Alternatively, it may be that the women in my desired demographic (under 30, 7+, cosmopolitan lifestyle in St.Pete’s) are just not interested in me! Lol..either way it is the same for me.

On a closing note, (at the risk of sounding defensive ;-) in case you might think that I am a hunchback with terminal bad breath, I can tell you that I am 41, appear 33-37,  caucasion, workout 2-3 hours a day (mostly holistic things like yoga, dance), have a six figure income and have a stylish demeanour (ie I have manicures, dress well, etc). 


With deep regret, I am no longer going to actively pursue the prospect of a FSU bride.  I’ll play out the string with the women I’ve been in contact if they make an effort to stay in touch (namely with “K”, “L” and “T”), and stay up to date with my paid up profiles until they expire. 

However, for this amount of time, effort and money, I think would have had much better success to simply seek a woman locally in my hometown (salsa lessons anyone?) and that will be my focus going forward.    Quite frankly, I don’t think I’ve had 6 date cancellations in my previous entire life let alone in one week!  Lol for that sort of treatment , I’ll take a hint and move on.

I’ve enjoyed the experience, and have no regrets.  To the contrary, I gave it my very best effort, and I’ll hope for a better experience as I turn my attention to home.

[TwoBitBandit]

I'm sorry about your bad experience.

Young girls in big cities are always flakey like that, although you seem to have had particularly bad luck.

How young were these ladies?   I've noticed a big difference between under-25 girls and over-25 girls.  Girls in their late twenties are usually pretty reliable.

[Vinnvinny]

Well written TR Davyj, sorry things didn't work out so well. 

I had plans to meet “Y”, who had been the star from my first visit to Piter.  I had felt instantly comfortable with “Y” during that visit, and she had instantly become only the 3rd woman that I have ever wanted to marry. 

As soon as she came in, everything felt great.  Just as it had during my first visit.  It feel instantly comfortable ,just as it had during my first visit.   I had chosen a restaurant close to my apartment, and after a nice meal with liberal amounts of alcohol we went back to my apartment for nightcap.  I had brought a map of my hometown, and I showed her key landmarks.  She then logged on to her Russian facebook page,  and began showing me some new pictures.  As she showed me various pictures, she casually pointed to one of her “boyfriend”.
 
!!??

I had figured he must surely be out the picture by now?!  I tried to seem nonchalant and asked how serious was their relationship.  She smiled happily and told me he had recently proposed and they were getting married in the summer (!!).

...lol...WTF? 

Too funny.  Here I am perched on the couch and on the verge of launching an intercontinental liplock missile on this girl, and she is engaged?? It appears that my arrival on the scene back in Oct lit a fire under the boyfriend and he ponied up an engagement ring.

I got a little flamed in an earlier thread for suggesting that another member spent too much time on thinking and analysing and not enough on decision making. Maybe in hindsight your first trip was far more successful than you allowed it to be.

I’ve heard many complaints here on the board about “professional daters” and “scammers”.  Frankly, I would have been delighted to buy dinner for a professional daters/scammer, simply to have some company!

Been there several times … things got so desperate I even took one on holiday. 

[GoodOlBoy]

This was my second visit, having previously visiting in Oct of last year .......In the end, once I arrived “Y” of course agreed to meet, and now was the night.

As soon as she came in, everything felt great.  Just as it had during my first visit.  It feel instantly comfortable ,just as it had during my first visit.    I had chosen a restaurant close to my apartment, and after a nice meal with liberal amounts of alcohol we went back to my apartment for nightcap.  I had brought a map of my hometown, and I showed her key landmarks.  She then logged on to her Russian facebook page,  and began showing me some new pictures.  As she showed me various pictures, she casually pointed to one of her “boyfriend”.
 
!!??

I had figured he must surely be out the picture by now?!  I tried to seem nonchalant and asked how serious was their relationship.  She smiled happily and told me he had recently proposed and they were getting married in the summer (!!).
...lol...WTF? 

Too funny.  Here I am perched on the couch and on the verge of launching an intercontinental liplock missile on this girl, and she is engaged?? It appears that my arrival on the scene back in Oct lit a fire under the boyfriend and he ponied up an engagement ring.

Ah well, such is life.  At least my effort to get married have worked out for someone!

Note to Newbies reading this.

If you meet a RW/UW that you click with, do not hesitate to let her know that you are serious and not just thinking "Hey, I'll catch you next time I am in town visiting some other RW".

If she even thinks you are not the tad bit serious about her, she WILL move on, especially if there is a possibility with a RM in her future.

When my wife posted her first profile, searching for a husband, she received OVER 2000 introduction emails from men. Some were serious and some were just vulgar.  :evil:

Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of foreign and domestic men chasing FSU women.

I am definitely not saying to any of the Newbie's out there: "Go rush into a relationship with an FSU woman", NO....what I am saying is to be cognizant of the fact that you are NOT ALONE.


GOB

BTW: Us GoodOlBoy's in the South have a saying: "You snooze, you lose". 

[Gator]

Daveyj,

A classic.  Well written. Thanks!

When reading it, I expected your week to improve, and instead it became worse and worse.  I said to myself, "Damn, this is more difficult than dating AW, and most of us go to the FSU because it is easier."

Your summary says it all:  

...for this amount of time, effort and money, I think would have had much better success to simply seek a woman locally in my hometown

I agree with the prior comments that women under 25 are too young for this venture, especially living in a city such as St. Piter where much is happening.

Do you give up?  Instead of giving up, try to find someone 30-33 who has already accomplished a lot and now wants to get married and have a baby.  There are some remarkable women in that group, well educated and beautiful, who have decided that either the FSU or the FSU men are not their best option.  They are more certain about what they want than a 25-yo.  

If you are making a six-figure income, I presume you would want a wife with such a dignified bearing rather than a kid who is out partying until 7am.  Enough said.

[Simoni]

Daveyj,

I wrote a long, detailed post that was lost in the RWD freeze up this morning.  So I will keep this one simple:

First, sorry you had so may cancelations.   I know this ruined the trip.  I only had one, but that turned out good cuz I spent the time with a beautiful young terp who was a lot of fun :-)

I'd advise you not to give up, and try this strategy:

Pick a big agency in a city.  Select profiles you like, but only write a few letters to  3 or 4 girls.

Get the agency to book meetings with them the first few days.  Then move to plan B; go to the agency office and select more profiles and ask them to schedule you.  This worked perfectly for me on my last trip, which was my last since my wife was a result of this visit.

FSU girls are spontaneous and think nothing of making a date with a few hours notice.  You'll have fun, and meet lots of girls.  No more sitting in a flat or walking the lonely streets.

Good luck!

~Si

[Ade]

Do you give up?  Instead of giving up, try to find someone 30-33 who has already accomplished a lot and now wants to get married and have a baby.  There are some remarkable women in that group, well educated and beautiful, who have decided that either the FSU or the FSU men are not their best option.  They are more certain about what they want than a 25-yo.  

If you are making a six-figure income, I presume you would want a wife with such a dignified bearing rather than a kid who is out partying until 7am.  Enough said.

My thoughts exactly.

And ignore the myths that the agencies promote, most 20-something FSU women are no different than those in the west; not at all interested in marrying 40+ year old foreign men. And yes, of course it can happen but as the recent survey demonstrated, most marriages are between people that are much closer in age. At your age, limiting the search to women in their 20's is just plain silly.

Also, if you are such a catch as you describe I think it's strange that you had so many cancellations and disappearing acts. Not unless the women you were communicating with were just agency employees.

[Tamara]

Daveyj,

I am sorry to hear about your frustrating trip to Piter.  This is my home city and based on all of my friends, relatives, etc. I would disagree with Gator and SeriouslyJaded.  Many girls, who are 25 have a very clear goal and are ready for the family.  It's not the age, it is the person and the way they were brought up that counts.  When one corresponds, they should ask questions and read what it says as well as read between the lines to see what the girl means and wants.  But expanding your age requirements will expand your search as well.  So it is still a great idea to look for someone closer to your age.

I did not mention marriage, although when they would ask why I was coming to Piter I would respond “I am looking for a wife of course! ;-)”.

You said that you did not mention marriage until being asked.  Which is an indication to a Russian woman, that she was not a candidate to be your wife.  So you were treated like an acquaintance: if there is time to meet, we'll meet.  If something more important comes up, then she just cancels.  Russian women take serious relationships seriously.  If you are interested, you need to show it and take action.  Only then you can expect the same back.
 
Whether you decide to go back to FSU or look locally, I wish you best of luck!

[Ade]

Daveyj,

I am sorry to hear about your frustrating trip to Piter.  This is my home city and based on all of my friends, relatives, etc. I would disagree with Gator and SeriouslyJaded.  Many girls, who are 25 have a very clear goal and are ready for the family.  It's not the age, it is the person and the way they were brought up that counts. 

I'm curious; how many of your friends and family are married to foreign men that are 16+ years older than them? 

[GoodOlBoy]

You said that you did not mention marriage until being asked.  Which is an indication to a Russian woman, that she was not a candidate to be your wife.  So you were treated like an acquaintance: if there is time to meet, we'll meet.  If something more important comes up, then she just cancels.  Russian women take serious relationships seriously.  If you are interested, you need to show it and take action.  Only then you can expect the same back.

NEWBIES, pay very close attention to what this nice RW (Tamara) is saying.


GOB

[Daveman]

Daveyj,

A classic.  Well written. Thanks!

When reading it, I expected your week to improve, and instead it became worse and worse.  I said to myself, "Damn, this is more difficult than dating AW, and most of us go to the FSU because it is easier."

Your summary says it all:  
 

I agree with the prior comments that women under 25 are too young for this venture, especially living in a city such as St. Piter where much is happening.

Do you give up?  Instead of giving up, try to find someone 30-33 who has already accomplished a lot and now wants to get married and have a baby.  There are some remarkable women in that group, well educated and beautiful, who have decided that either the FSU or the FSU men are not their best option.  They are more certain about what they want than a 25-yo.  

If you are making a six-figure income, I presume you would want a wife with such a dignified bearing rather than a kid who is out partying until 7am.  Enough said.

What Gator said...

Daveyj, If you swear off FSU ladies, of course that's your choice.  It has been said time and time again that they are not for everyone.  Simoni made a great suggestion to you.  Each meeting will cost a few bucks through an agency, but do it that way you will absolutely have a much better experience and probably much better luck.

Good luck in the future whither so ever thou goeth!

Daveyman

[Chicagoguy]

I found I had good results when I just listed my profile and let them select me.

[Tamara]

I'm curious; how many of your friends and family are married to foreign men that are 16+ years older than them? 

Number does not matter in this particular discussion. It's more than one just in my immediate family!    I have friends married to FM much older than they are who live in Germany, France, US, Holland, etc... And we are all from Saint Petersburg!    Again, I do not think it is about age.  It is about being serious, interested and finding out what every particular girl is looking for, despite her age.

[Ade]

Number does not matter in this particular discussion. It's more than one just in my immediate family!    I have friends married to FM much older than they are who live in Germany, France, US, Holland, etc... And we are all from Saint Petersburg!    Again, I do not think it is about age.  It is about being serious, interested and finding out what every particular girl is looking for, despite her age.

Actually, for most people extreme age differences really do matter. I will give you that there are always exceptions and my fiancée is one at 30 and 13 years my junior, however, I'm not so egotistical and narcissistic that I believe I would be an attractive proposition to any but a very few women in their twenties. There's also the issue of how old the youngest is in the couple; a 15 year age difference when the woman is 30 is a different proposition than when she is 20.

For an apparent good catch he was remarkably unsuccessful at attracting those twenty-something women. Now, we have any number of reasons this could be and among them are;
1) generally twenty-somethings are not interested in forty-something old farts.
2) he made very bad choices when he chose his prospects.
3) he's not the package that he makes himself out to be (wouldn't be the first time someone is crap at self assessment - remember Dawn Porter's Kevin? )

I would guess at 1 and 2.

Maybe you can invite him over for dinner Tamara and introduce him to the twenty-something women in your family and among your friends that are just aching to hook up with a foreign guy in his forties.

[Tamara]

Maybe you can invite him over for dinner Tamara and introduce him to the twenty-something women in your family and among your friends that are just aching to hook up with a foreign guy in his forties.

Certainly! If he is willing to come to Minnesota in winter!  (I just used this one as we are turning blue from cold.  )

BTW, my "number" does not matter comment did not refer to age difference.  It referred to your question: How many friends... And this number does not matter as it is very subjective!  You can't judge all girls in their 20-ies based on one person's experience anyway.

If you read my posts carefully, you will see that I NEVER said that age difference does not matter.  I said that there are many mature 25 year old girls ready for the family and being married.  And despite their age they can be looking for a serious relationship.

[Ade]

BTW, my "number" does not matter did not refer to age difference.  It referred to your question: How many friends... And this number does not matter as it is very subjective!

Actually, the original question was rhetorical.

My point remains; large age gap relationships are the exception and everything on this site supports that. Even the recent survey shows that the average age difference is less than 10 years and that the women, on average, are getting married in their thirties. Sure, there will be 20-somethings in there too but the further you go away from the mean the fewer and farther between those relationships become especially when compounded by large age differences to their partners.

So, a forty-something looking exclusively for a foreign twenty-something bride is betting against the odds in all sorts of ways.

[daveyj]

You are such a catch!   

This member thanks you for your attention but cannot return your interest.

Try to contact someone else.
New members are joining every day!

[Misha]

I agree with what has been said with regards to the challenges of a 40-year-old man trying to woo a woman in her early twenties from Saint Petersburg. These are the options that she has if she is very attractive:

1. All the RM men her age in their early twenties;
2. RM in their thirties;
3. Rich RM in their forties and fifties;
4. Foreign men in their twenties and thirties;
5. Foreign men in their forties.

A woman in her early twenties is likely to have very romantic (read quite often unrealistic) expectations about men and life. She is waiting for her knight riding in on his white horse, foreign men don't quite fit into that mold anymore in St. Pete. Once a woman is in her late twenties, she has likely been burnt once or twice in previous relationships, will be a bit more jaded (read realistic) and will look at men and life from a different perspective IMHO.

[Stepford_Wife]

But there is a social stigma attached to marriage with a WM (in the same way that a stigma exists in the west for marriage to a FSUW).

Oh really? Last time I checked there was none, probably it all depends on the WM. When a girl is married to a young, good-looking and quite successful American guy, trust me all her girlfriends are dying of jealousy. What stigma are you talking about?
And about the age, SeriouslyJaded is so right! Come on, looking only for 20 year old hotties when you are 40y.o., no wonder your trip was a disaster. Good luck in finding 20 y.o. American girl who will be a good wife for you But before that make sure you have 7 figure income - That would help a lot in maintaining and strong relationship based on love 

[GoodOlBoy]

These are the options that she has if she is very attractive:

1. All the RM men her age in their early twenties;
2. RM in their thirties;
3. Rich RM in their forties and fifties;
4. Foreign men in their twenties and thirties;
5. Foreign men in their forties.

Hey Misha.

You missed a category.

How about those Hot Blooded teenage boys?

When I was younger, I always liked those "older" women!  :evil:


GOB

[Misha]

You missed a category.

How about those Hot Blooded teenage boys?

LOL! Touche  Now, I can't decide whether this new category should be 1 or 2

[daveyj]

And thus it starts...

I considered not posting a TR, as it certainly was nothing for me to feel good about.  This is of course a deeply personal experience, and I have my misgivings about baring it to a group of strangers in a public forum

However I felt I had a responsibiltiy to post as I think there is a implicit bias that guys are more likely to want to report on this good experiences (victories?) and hide their bad experiences.  I also considerd posting a "no comments" TR, but hoped that my request for a minimum of "snide comments and bickering" would be respected.

I'd just like to note that as per my report, my target demographic was "under 30".  Somehow that turned into "under 25", and now it is "20 yr old hotties only".

For the record, I'm not going to engage in any debate or defense of my trip.  I've seen how that works out on this board.  I will only respond if there is a factual mistatement of my original report.  

[SMS60]

Daveyj

Very interesting trip report. You seem straight forward.

I'm sure you had time to sit back and reflect on your trip. I'm interested in knowing what you think happened on your trip.

I think deep down you have a good idea of why it did not turn out the way you expected.

My question would be if you could post what you think you did wrong. Everyone can post theories but only you know the real reason.

Good luck in the future

[GoodOlBoy]

Daveyj
I think deep down you have a good idea of why it did not turn out the way you expected.

Possibly the age difference? 




GOB

[Misha]

I know that I will be pounced on for the comments that I will make, but somebody has to take the bullet and bring up the dangers of trying to juggle too many women 

I called “T”, an Elena’s girl.  She had been my #2 interest in the trip, and I had originally proposed a Day 2 or 3 meeting.  However having not heard from her until two days before my arrival I had made other plans, and when she heard that I was booked for the first 3 evenings she had seemed disappointed we would have to wait until later to meet. 

I am curious. How did you explain the fact that you would be busy for the next three nights? She probably put two and two together and realized that she was number four (or lower) on your list.

At 10:30 I was dressed, and ready to dance, when I got a call from “T” advising that one of her main friends was ill and they were cancelling their plans.

Payback? She waited until she knew you would not find another date and then called you to cancel as a way to get back at you for putting  her fourth  :evil:

Yes, she did not cut off contact completely with you after canceling, but she did not put meeting you very high up on her list of things to do either