USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways
*I* don't think it was a 'mine' and neither do the ships owners
http://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman.html)
USA blows up 2 tankers and blames IranEvidence?
Yup, 'sorry' BillyB.. I forgot you'd 'know' more about it than the owner ..
You still haven't learned not to use anti Trump fake news sources. Try news out of Japan where they say the crew spotted an Iranian boat. Your news doesn't state what the owner of the tanker think about what the Iranian boat was doing on it's hull.The New York
A greater display of gross ignorance has never been displayed on this forum and there have been many in contention
You still haven't learned not to use anti Trump fake news sources.
Try news out of Japan where they say the crew spotted an Iranian boat.
Your news doesn't state what the owner of the tanker think about what the Iranian boat was doing on it's hull.
Even if one of the mines didn't go off, Trump isn't wrong about the two boats being attacked by mines. As more evidence and statements come out over the next few days, anti Trump news who's sole purpose is to call Trump a liar will be proven wrong again.
Now, silly BillyB is stupid enough to tell us the CEO of the firm that owns the tanker 'didn't say say what he did - because the NYT said so' ! :ROFL:
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild. Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end. 98% of products sold in Walmart made in China. USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon
so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild.
Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end.
98% of products sold in Walmart made in China.
USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.
Let's not let James' divert us us from Silly BillyB's contention that that the NYT posted 'fake news'...
Moby, you and Billy need couples therapy.
I've concluded he likes to bang his head.(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/cheesy.gif) Headbangers...I've heard of them.
Now, please tell us how where you disagree with what I posted...!
USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways
A greater display of gross ignorance has never been displayed on this forum and there have been many in contention
...and what if somebody destroyed half our navy? how would you expect us (The US) to respond?
When something similar happened about 30 years ago, we responded with Operation Praying Mantis (largest naval engagement since WWII). Lasted one day and destroyed half of Iran's navy. One problem - today's IRGC was not even born then, so they have no memory of getting hit hard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis The worse part we mistakenly shot down an Iranian commercial passenger jet.
The US is a net producer of energy. so the situation is not so important to us other than to maintain stability in the region.
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild. Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end. 98% of products sold in Walmart made in China. USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.As we (The US) should see, even our allies are seriously and rightfully questioning what we are up to. Can't blame them when people like Pompeo and Bolton are out there making up lies to suit our needs.
For you to believe that, you have to believe America took out our own World Trade Center with explosives after the planes hit. You have to believe..................
Arguing the point that the OP stated makes a lot more sense than arguing a point
that he didn't.
This week he's banging heads with me. Next week he'll be banging heads with somebody else. It'll never end. I've concluded he likes to bang his head. I know his history here and elsewhere being banned multiple times. Even so, I tried to be nice to him but eventually, he gets under everybody's skin ruining all relationships. Surprisingly, this forum is 10 times nicer to Moby than the other. Probably why he feels welcomed here. Anyway, Happy Father's Day everyone! Got to go. My son wants to fill my belly.
What BillyB calls 'banging heads' - is normally my pointing out - yet another howler of his..
My 'history' is it doesn't matter who they are - if I disagree - I'll post to that effect ..
This forum isn't run by somonewho has taken money from the Kremlinand who likes to edit my posts, ( or make them disappear when they hit home ) edits my profile, suggests I do / didsomething I didn't,and even nicked by avatar from here ..:popcorn:
Your Alex Jones incites hatred and has been a proven liar ...
Mind you....some of 'Trampu's' retweets aren't much 'better'....
I've been listening to Jones for 12 years. I know him better than probably better than anyone here. I disagree with your judgment of him.
Not my judgement..he was tried and the case proven in Court
USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways
....This forum isn't run by somone who has taken money from the Kremlin and who likes to edit my posts, ( or make them disappear when they hit home ) edits my profile, suggests I do / didsomething I didn't, and even nicked by avatar from here ..
Some posters think it is more important to be 'popular'
You are very naive about the American "Justice" system and the courts. Get the last word in and let us never discuss politics again.
See how paranoid Jones has made you?
James-
If you knew the history behind the 'hate' between the US and Iran, maybe you'd take a more humble position today. After all, it would've been easy to get along with Iran today, but then you and your queen would still be digging through the ashes of the world wars you and your esteemed colonial cohorts extolled upon our world.
As for the idea the US 'bombing' the tankers, far fetched to subscribe to at this time. However, remembering the Tonkin gulf, Syria's chemical attacks, Libya, the Balkans, Ukraine...it won't be outside the realm of possibilities...CIA? Study Cuba post-WWII.
US Intelligence. No longer valid considering the recent revelations on our intelligence agencies led by John Brenner, James Clapper and James Comey. Two years of special counsel's 'supposed' investigation over an allegation created by the very same 'US intelligence agencies' investigating it, as their insurance if 'our version of a democratic election' didn't go as they designed. Cat..chase...tail.
Democracy, US-style: Laughable at this time. Laying witness to the current political climate in clear display of our version of democracy for the entire world to see. Who the heck would want to adopt, emulate or be subjected to this type of freedom and democracy. The US can't even honor the office of the executive branch who was legitimately voted and appointed by its constituents. Instead, you have its media and opposition political party create nefarious and faux realities to obstruct and oppose the will of its peoples. This is democratic? BS!
Sovereign Sanctity, meddling and interference: Even bigger hyperbole. Qadaffi, Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Mohammad Pahlavi, Somoza clan, Cesar Guzzetti -dot-dot-dot Much too many interferences and meddling to mention.
It amuses me having discussions like this over matters each of our collective governments have their dirty hands on. Peewee Hermann debate, "I know you are but what am I?"
Surely James, based on your country's long history of greed and murder, I'd think you'd be the last guy bathing yourself with faux benevolence.
Your Alex Jones incites hatred and has been a proven liar ...
Mind you....some of 'Trampu's' retweets aren't much 'better'....
Conspiracy theorists say the hole in the pentagon building was too small for a 757 impact so it was our own missile that did it and our military was involved. They believe all of 9/11 was initiated by our government. How do you argue the size of a hole a 757 makes in the side of a building? Nobody is an expert on the size of the hole a 757 makes when entering a building because it doesn't happen everyday so it's not easy to debate a conspiracy theorist on that. it's easier to debate the World Trade Center operation. BTW, I was in the Army, not Marines.
Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story when anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and the right to free speech especially political speech.
You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.
...Interestingly Alex Jones has taken the position it was Iran that did it. But others in his circle say it might be the Deep State trying to lurer Trump into yet another war. And for two reasons. First is the value of defense stocks rise dramatically during a time of war. Deep Staters are heavily invested in defense stocks and there are no breaks on budgetary spending at this time. So a perfect time for them to make a killing in the stock market. The second reason for war is to make it unpopular thus hurting Trump. Iran could be a tough nut to crack. If some of their thousands of missiles get through and some Naval ships are sunk... The Deep State is in a 'Win Win' position then, especially if Trump loses the next election and they are free to run wild in the government as they have been doing.
...You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.
You leftiesThe progressives are all about shutting down free speech.
Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story whenLawyers: Files sent by Alex Jones contained child porn
anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and
the right to free speech especially political speech.
You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.
Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story when
anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and
the right to free speech especially political speech.
You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.
"First they came ..." is the poetic form of a prose post- war confession first made in German in 1946 by the German Lutheran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism) pastor Martin Niemöller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller) (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowardice) of German intellectuals and certain clergy (including, by his own repeated admissions, Niemöller himself) following the Nazis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party)' rise to power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power) and subsequent incremental purging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purge) of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution), guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_(emotion)), repentance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repentance), and responsibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_responsibility).
One of the things we do here in the USA is we smear 'enemies', and make them out to be bad actors. In reality in most cases they are competitors that are beating us at something, so we make them out to be something terrible, like in the case of Iran.
Now Alex Jones is accused of sending child porn. He has made many despicable statements and injured lots of people with his often baseless accusations. I do think he incites hatred. Now he is whining because he is facing accusations of child porn and that will dog him in the same way he has unjustifiably dogged others. I doubt he is guilty of this, but I don't feel sorry for him either.
Lawyers: Files sent by Alex Jones contained child porn
Lawyers for the families of children and adults killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School disclosed Monday that child pornography was found in electronic files sent to them by conspiracy theorist Infowars host Alex Jones.
The pornography was found in email metadata files Jones' attorneys turned over to the families' lawyers as part of the discovery process of a defamation lawsuit, which was filed in a Connecticut court last year in response to discussions on Jones' show about the school shooting being a hoax....
http://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-infowars-host-alex-jones-202021411.html (http://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-infowars-host-alex-jones-202021411.html)
Fathertime!
Dear Maxx
You've got this ass about face ..
I adore a good debate with someone with an opposing viewpoint and totally agree that they have a right to their opinion - but when they start posting shameless lies to gain support - twaddle that harms lives, upsets and infuences other to do daft things - it's time to put them on the naughty step
We are free to debate the 'poor soul's' plight
So where do you draw the line? Should NAMBLA be free to advocate for grown men to have sexual relationships with prepubescent boys? Should racists be allowed to hold rallies advocating for violence against the "other", whoever that is?
I think the internet has opened up all sort of pernicious things that don't deserve an audience, primarily because you can literally find a group online for anything you believe in. Think vaccines cause autism, notwithstanding no credible scientific research supporting that view? You will find advocates online who support that whacky view. Do you believe the earth is flat? Or that the moon doesn't exist? You can find online communities that support that view.
Some of the above are obviously relatively harmless. But others are not. The point is, though, that now, anything and everything can find supporters online, and education and reason often are irrelevant.
Imagine how hurtful it was to the Sandy Hook parents to use their personal tragedies for ratings and whacky conspiracy theories, suggesting their children didn't die. How would you feel if someone suggested your tragedy and pain didn't occur? IMHO, that is victimizing those parents yet again.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
IF, I'm a 'leftie' - you must be right of Attilla the Hun .. Plenty of right of centre folks abhire 'Brexit' and held no fear over migrants coming from the EU - given it had a postitive effect on our economy, overall ..
Naturally, if you canot understand your Alex Jones is a a wack job and HAS incited violence .. there's nothing more to debate ..
'Free Speech' - YES ..promoting polarisation, NO
'Our' Alex Jones is much more appealing - she hosts an early evening show on BB! weekdays - but is on maternity leave at the mo
(http://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/healthandbeauty/mother-and-baby/2019061274124/alex-jones-baby-date-chris-evans-wife-natasha/0-360-877/alex-jones-and-baby-kit-z.jpg)
Maxx
I have no idea of our Alex Jones' politics ... How do you ? ;)
WOW! Your refusal to look at the other side goes to that depth??? Unbelievable! Someone told you she was equivalent to Alex Jones and you accepted it and up went the blinders? Amazing!
So what is the latest about your ETA to Georgia?
Maxx,
'our' Alex Jones co presents a weekly, show..She dies not try to make a 'name' for herself posting stuff that, rightly, ends her up in Court..
Winding up in court for "posting stuff" is how the Left is trying to stifle the speech of the Right.
Did you know that Bill Clinton's name is on billionaire Jeffrey Epstein's private jet's flight log, the Lolita Express? Jeffrey Epstein is a convicted Paedophile! He had his own private island in a Caribbean where his shenanigans went on with 12 year old girls. And Bill flew with him to this island.
Jones is a wack-job - period
Do you think members of NAMBA would vote Right?
Your photos are of drag queens. Typically, they aren't looking for underaged boys.
As for the question, two words - Dennis Hastert.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Or how 'stiff' and pompous some folk are..? ;)
Probably wasn't even a 'gay' parade .. given the 'info' from 'info'wars..
Tell me, Maxx... do you think that SC should not go topless on a beach, too ? ;)
I'd advise SC to wear more clothes and be prepared to be hit on by many, many Georgian men. I'd also advise her to wear a wedding ring. That was what AW are advised to do who taught English here with the LTG program. Topless? I suppose she could. I'm not sure if the police would arrest her for indecent exposure if she was somewhat discreet about it. The place where I advise for sun bathing and splashing in the Sea is by an Army outpost. The water is the clearest there. I took you over there. She'd give the soldier on watch something to watch (probably with binoculars).
SC knows how to handle Georgian / Turkish guys !
Attilla the Hun was a lefty all dictators are. Control by the State is a Lefty ideal.
Liberty, freedom and protection FROM the State is a Righty ideal.
Maybe you don't know what characterizes lefties and righties.
Good lord, only you can bring up Brexit when discussing imaginary plots between
the USA, Japan and Iran, neither being a party to your beloved Brexit.
Yes, definitely a Lefty. Using words like polarization as an excuse to shut
down free speech.
The very definition of free speech is to be able to speak freely about stuff
and not only stuff that lefties agree with. Lefty Dogma only works in a
vacuum where alternative thoughts and ideas aren't allowed. That's
why lefties nearly always lose debates. Their ideas suck.
Your photos are of drag queens. Typically, they aren't looking for underaged boys.
As for the question, two words - Dennis Hastert.
1/ I care not what people call me - but at least they could listen to a fact or two, before being foolish ..
2/ Freedom to post bollox like 'Holocasut denial ' - you think THAT is OK, too ?
'Leftes' - sadly - often win debates - by gaining power in free and fair elections ..
Put on your listening head, 'Beel' .. You ain't thinking straight
You are a lefty, your opinions are lefty. Just because you know people who are
more lefty doesn't mean your right of center or even center.
Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.
There are all sorts of reasons that lefties win elections, winning debates is
rarely one of them.
So where do you draw the line? Should NAMBLA be free to advocate for grown men to have sexual relationships with prepubescent boys? Should racists be allowed to hold rallies advocating for violence against the "other", whoever that is?
This post was composed without the aid of google.
WE INTERRUPT THE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION TO RETURN TO THE THREAD TITLE
Yesterday Iran downed an American military drone suveilling the Straits of Hormuz. These are not ordinary drones. It was the size of a commercial jet and cost $153 million.
Iran claims the drone invaded its airspace. The US military says it was over international waters. A response is forthcoming.
My question: What do you believe the US military should do in response? Will do?
My guess: The US will require Iran to pay for the drone and to curtail its aggressiveness. When we downed one of Iran's commercial airplanes 30 years ago, we paid Iran in an international court for the airplane and added some compensation for the lives of Iranian citizens killed.
Yes, definitely a Lefty. Using words like polarization as an excuse to shut
down free speech.
The very definition of free speech is to be able to speak freely about stuff
and not only stuff that lefties agree with. Lefty Dogma only works in a
vacuum where alternative thoughts and ideas aren't allowed. That's
why lefties nearly always lose debates. Their ideas suck.
That's because commies were banned during the cold war. After the cold
war they became allowed again so the lefties want to ban conservative
speech. ESPECIALLY if they are effective speakers
So on that subject you are to the right of commies. Almost everybody is to the
right of commies. Hitler was to the right of commies but to the left of you.
I didn't bring up Alex Jones, Maxx did.
Goalpost moved, Moby swerve. You talked about winning debates causing lefties
to win elections, now you are talking about trustworthiness winning elections.
Lefties rarely win debates.
I would have to think hard about something that I care less about.
Hmmmmm.................
I care less about whether the Pope wears boxers or briefs, but I don't
care about either enough to debate with you about them.
.I'm convinced our escalation is the problem with the whole situation. We (The US) is upset with Iran since we are out of the loop regarding their oil profits, and their use of the Euro in lieu of the dollar isn't appreciated either, as it encouraging other nations to do the same. All our sanctions and efforts would go away if Iran would fall in line with what the US wants. Saudi Arabia can get away with murder in our eyes, just look at how Pompeo bent over backwards to defend them.
If we crossed into Iran's airspace, Trump should do nothing. If we were in international airspace, Trump should send a few cruise missiles into Iran as punishment. In the last month, 6 tankers were sabotaged, multiple drones were shot at, Saudi Arabia was shot at with missiles. This will not end by continuing to do nothing. This should not escalate to war but something should be done.
Iran will not pay even if they are in the wrong. They have their story and their sticking to it. If they reverse themselves and admit they are shooting and blowing up things beyond their boundaries at sea, then it shows everybody they lied and paying the country they call Satan, is a sign of weakness and God may deny them 72 virgins for sinning.
Quote from: 2tallbill on Today at 09:30:15 AM (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23741.msg512447#msg512447)Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.
'Ri-ight'... So, do tell us why wackos like Alex Jones are having their ability post post lies removed ? Really - bearing in mind your point ? :popcorn:
Saudi Arabia can get away with murder in our eyes, just look at how Pompeo bent over backwards to defend them.
This may seem like a matter of semantics but make a clear distinction in who carried out the decision to down the US drone. IRGC is a secular power in Iran. It doesn’t answer to Iran’s politician, president or otherwise. Centcom was very clear in their report which they repeated multiple times. They reported it was fired by the IRGC.
Trump backed off from his initial rhetorics likely because he got briefed on who fired the missile. Saying only it was a mistake by a loose and stupid general. My suspicion he already received a Farsi-accented phone call.
I'm sure ever nation's intelligence agency murdered somebody at one time or another. Saudi Arabia got caught. Can't sanction every nation for flaws. We need Saudi Arabia to keep the peace in the Middle East, kill terrorists, and counter Iranian influence.
2/ GQB thinks the Iranians have 'apologised' for the tanker incidents ( but then shot down a drone, for good measure) ..
Yup - the world could be going mad
and 'Trampu' ruining a Nuke deal 'O'Bama' has done with Iran - supported by the EU, RU, China et al -
kicking off oil price hikes - isn't a suprise at all .....
So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint.
The Nuke deal was woefully weak. It still allowed Iran to develop a nuke in 15? years. Meanwhile Iran is using its oil revenues (boosted initially by the $1.7 billion cash payment) to accomplish the following:
Wrong! The world is awash with oil supplies mostly because of US's fracking operations. VZ, Libya, Iran produce less and less, yet price of oil is in a long downward trend. The decline in oil price will stabilize as it approaches the cost of production. It could zoom if the Strait of Hormuz is closed.
:cluebat:
It's down TO him that we have this inevitabe and predicted mess
Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...
The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better.. the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players
Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..
They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy .. This is 101 stuff... the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out ...
Trade Wars cause real wars
...Everybody, including the Iranian president, answers to a few religious fanatics. If one group is truly independent of the others, Trump should punish the IRGC and the other groups should be left alone....
... If Trump does conclude Iran made a mistake and does nothing, you can bet everything you own that Iran will make more mistakes. Mistakes will stop when mistakes cost Iran more than the mistakes are worth....
You play checkers while Trump plays five dimensional chess. He will go down in History as the Greatest Man of the 21st Century! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
That is the issue, for me anyways. Alex Jones is having his free speech shut down by the media giants who support political Leftists.
The results of the study are consistent with the results of a similar exercise undertaken by Media Matters last year. That study, which measured engagement on the same set of pages over the previous six months, found that right-leaning pages had a nearly identical average rate of interactions with left-leaning pages. It also found that the right-leaning pages it studied earned 51 percent more total interactions than left-leaning pages.
Hastert was a hypocrite.
BTW Boe, those were videos and not photos I posted before. I think you have no idea how degenerated your side has become.
Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...
The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better..
the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players
Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..
They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy .. This is 101 stuff...
....the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out .
So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint. Even more remarkable is his transparency. The hawks are not happy.
Evidently his plan is to get Iran to the negotiating table.
Everything that isn't bombing of 'disobedient' nations reminds you of your tired tired old quote from Chamberlain.
Noble idea, reminds me of Chamberlain's "peace for our time." Iran had its chance to come back "into the fold." It did not.
Trump won't get any deal better than Obama's.And why should he ? Iran is under no obligation to make what they feel is a good deal for the US.
...but it is humorous to see some of the 'patriot' hypocrites defend Trump when he clearly stands down, whereas if it were Obama it would have been an angry excoriation of how big a wimp he was!
Trump criticized previous Presidents for not stopping N Korea's and Iran's nuke programs. His current policies will make him no better than the Presidents he criticized because his policies won't work.
Irrelevant. He was a Republican who could have supported NAMBLA, which was your question.
I am not sure of who is RoW. Does RoW stand for the "realm of weenies?" :ROFL:
I guess these are Europeans who wanted to trade with Iran and Obama the Great Appeaser, conceding to demands just to get a signed deal.
Noble idea, reminds me of Chamberlain's "peace for our time." Iran had its chance to come back "into the fold." It did not.
BTW, when was Iran ever in the fold? Under the Shah, whom the populace despised?
Unstable? Where ever you obtain your information, stop!
I assert oil prices were much more unstable before Trump. Let's do a litmus test.
- In June 2008 oil was $160/bbl, soon dropping in response to the Great Recession.
- Under Obama prices started at $50 when he took office, rising to $130 in April 2011, and dropping briefly to $35 as Iran doubled its oil exports after the Obama nuclear deal and fracking increased.
- Under Trump prices have varied in a narrow range, $50-65 even though Iran and VZ reduced production.
Dr. Mobs, do you still consider this unstable!!!!
What? The production increases in North America (Canada and Mexico are big participants) have kept downward pressure on oil prices.
Japan was such a saint in the decades before WW II., expanding aggressively in the Pacific, particularly into China. Some remarkable similarities between 1930s Japan and today's Iran.
Anyway, look where Japan is today after ridding itself of its militaristic and expansionist mentality.
..and the USA was competing with Japan for those same resources - the Middle East Oil boom hadn't happened yet .. The USA sided with China and imposed sanctions of Japan and made war inevitable .. This is 101 stuff, Gator ...that our fore-fathers were surprised is bizarre, now
America's sanctions led to Japan lashing out and invading China in the early 30's? The League of nations didn't apply sanctions because America and Britain were main trading partners with Japan.You are casually discussing the killing of hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions in an unnecessary war. A war based on nothing more than the US wanted to make more money. I agree with Trump's decision not to bomb Iran. I don't think he needed to agonize over it, it should have been a no brainer. Of course I do agree the US would militarily make Iran submit, assuming other nations don't get involved, but the victory would cause more harm than good.
http://www.johndclare.net/EL5.htm
Iran isn't nowhere near as powerful as pre WW2 Japan. Iran doesn't have the ability to conquer most of its neighbors. They will instead spread their influence and support radicals in their neighbors countries.
Gator earlier said a war in Iran is impossible to win. I disagree. Iraq fought Iran for 8 years to a stalemate. A few years later, America's troop rolled all the way to Baghdad in a matter of days. Afghanistan was supposed to be unwinnable do to them keeping the Soviets out. With supplying a few special operation troops, air support and supporting pro American Afghans, Al Qaeda and the Afghan government was beat. Maintaining stability in a country after a war is a different story. I suspect most Iranians prefer a different government just like the Iraqis so I don't see them resisting much.
You are casually discussing the killing of hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions in an unnecessary war.
I believe religious fanatics who think God is talking to them and crazy people like Kim Jong UN who has not Parliament or Congress to provide checks and balances on his decisions are capable of launching nuclear missiles killing tens of millions when they get upset. It really isn't a question of if this will happen, just a question of when. It may not happen when we're alive but it will happen because that is what crazy people and religious fanatics are capable of.I don't think it is a matter of all these leaders being 'madmen'. Venezuela, Iran, North Korea, and others aren't conforming to what the US wants. That is the reason the leaders are 'madmen'. It is the US that is creating the issues, and much of the world appears to recognize that nowadays. We are seen as the 'madman' with nukes.
I also believe Iran who are supplying weapons to terrorists will supply them nukes eventually. It's better for them if someone else nuke a Western city so they can say they weren't part of it. Lives are important to you. They are important to me too. Lives will end doing something or nothing. How do we minimize the death toll?
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA. What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west
That's because you don't know how much the Shia and the Sunni hateThis is what YOU hope. The US is very much ok with driving the wedge in further between different segments of their religion(s) as long as it helps us make more profits at their expense. We will gladly try to arm one side or the other while fomenting discord. Our system of dominance isn't appreciated much by the anyone much any much. Rather than working a little harder, we are more about exploiting others, and it shows.
each other. It's lots and lots and lots.
'Rest of the World '... :popcorn:
Once again, you prove VERY naaive, historically .. Chamberlain bought time ...
The idea was to give Iran a chance to trade and through business - become more open - less hostile
Hmm.. 1 year under 'Trampu' .. Theprice has varied from $50 - nearly $85 / barrel .. that's a SIXTY-FIVE percent swing - and that's 'stable' to you ?
(http://i.imgur.com/23px47x.png)
Increased production drives oil prices UP ... China is way DOWN - FAR outweighing the USA / Mexico ...
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA. What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA. What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west
'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players
Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..
(http://media1.giphy.com/media/3i7zenReaUuI0/giphy.gif)
John Kerry was the dumbest person to be Secretary of State in US History.
You should do stand up
I realize that you want it to be right wing but it's far left of everything EXCEPT
Socialism and Communism. So it's right wing compared to Communism, but
not compared to our American market economy and Constitutional Republican
form of government. Compared to what we have in the USA Fascism is left wing.
It almost exactly mirrors what they have in Modern China. Tell me how Modern
China is right wing.
Fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.
"Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes
through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that
control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where
socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring
owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic
authority conceived it.
(Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism
abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market
relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished
money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices
and wages politically. "
Follow my source by clicking here (http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html)
If you change the words plunder and extortion with the word TaxesWhat you are accidentally telling the world through you posts is what a significant segment of trump voters think like. Most people from abroad are going to think you have a screw or two loose. Here in the states most people will understand you have been metamorphosized into an extremist through years of right wing brainwashing.
then it sound pretty lefty to me.
Yet the Chinese have done EXACTLY that,
They have converted from communism/socialism one step to
the right to fascism. Deng Xiaoping 101
Why would you defend Iran? What are Iran's redeeming qualities vs. all Iran continues to do to destabilize the region.
And now you defend Chamberlain.
Noble idea. So please point to examples of Iran's open and peaceful initiatives......"Death to Amerika."
Good data source, other than 50-day moving averages are more helpful to analysis.
You say 65% swing. Let's look closer. The $85 price was short-lived and resulted from 1) increased demand (America's economy was growing at a quickened pace due to tax and regulatory reforms) and 2) reduced supply (VZ, et al). Note that the price came down as US oil production continued to increase and Europe and China slowed, even managing to decline as Iranian supplies dwindled.
In summary, you relish playing the part of the contrarian. Admit it.
Again, you've been there and should know better ..America and esp. Britain ARE mistrusted as 'we' shafted Iran re oil deals - 'we' took the money and put xip back into Iran - paying to ensure the Shah ran the nation and oppressed oposition
Gator tries to avoid the FACT that 'Trampu' pulling out of the deal is why we are here - '
Thanks' - once again, 'Trampu' for proving "you re a risk to peace" - while suggesting otherwise
Iran to IMPROVE it's economy - instead of lashing out at 'us' in other spheres
Separate from religion is a culture of accepting and respecting deceit. Their culture of deceit means this country can never be trusted, and their martyrdom culture means they are dangerous. A part of the world community....what a sad joke.
I believe a lot of what goes on in the culture is due to what type of government is running the show.
In Iran's case their dishonesty/deceit and martyrdom is probably centuries old. The martyrdom from the Shia religion and the dishonesty/deceit something fairly common throughout the Middle East. They respected the best liars the way we respect intelligence.
That I did know. The CIA interference was wrong.
Bottom line - the world will be far better if Iran curtailed its proxy wars, its goal to annihilate Israel, its quest for nukes, its IRGC, ......
In other news Trump probably did cyber attack Iran before calling off the bombing. Cyber attack knocked out Iran's missile batteries.
http://www.engadget.com/2019/06/22/us-cyberattack-reportedly-knocked-out-iran-missile-control-syste/?yptr=yahoo
I know nothing about how this is accomplished and how to prevent it. I question if revealing we have this capability is good. Now they know. If these air defense missiles are Russian, now the Russians will be investigating how to prevent cyber attacks. Again, I know nothing and it is very possible that the Russians knew of this vulnerability and already had ways to counter cyber attacks.
Hastert would never have been elected if his supporters, his Republican supporters, knew he was a paedophile. You take the exception Hastert, and make it the rule.
Yes, you do have a side.Exactly what side is that?
In the case of the USA we respect dishonesty/deceit...just look at trump!
We may dress it up a bit differently but we are about the last ones that should be trying to chastise another county based on our own behavior.
Trump won't get any deal better than Obama's. Obama got them to agree to delay their nuke program and in return, they got money and were allowed to advance their ballistic missile system to deliver the nukes.Obama agreed to extortion. Maybe that should read...
Iran won't get any deal better than Obama's.
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime.
LMAO! Fathertime...must sux to be so conflicted, man. You hate Trump as much as you do Obama.You are wrong. I don't hate Obama OR Trump. I don't agree with either of their policies though, so my position has been consistent.
Methinks maybe moving to Bangladesh or East Timor would suit you much better, no? New Zealand certainly can use more humans. There are more sheeps in NZ than people, you know.. :PI'm not moving anywhere out of good old California for now among mostly humans.
Speaking of Obama (sheep) and humans ::::hehehe:::::
Jesse Smollet can easily be Obama's, er...let's see..Gender Noncomforming? Maybe Cis Female? Obama's Agender? Could be Two Spirit? Whatever I say...
Did you believe Iran is a model nation in the region?
. The world is tired of Israel joined with USA propaganda. Trump just makes the USA look like a bunch of idiots the man is an idiot has the USA degenerated so far that an idiot can be their President ?Yes it appears much of the world is fed up with the USA's antics. Although you can see a segment of the US populace thinks the USA should be sticking it's snout throughout the world, because we know better.
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime.
Irrelevant, the Bush gang invaded Iraq. Trump wasn't president, he wasMinimizing US blame and pinning it on one guy (Bush) isn't going to work. The US is responsible and no way to weasel out of it.
a private businessman.
There already is a war, even if it is currently a war without bullets. We (The US) might do more if we could get away with being more aggressive, without blowback. There is little international support for what we are doing, and little to no appetite from the public for a shooting war.
Trump is the first elected Republican to say that it was a mistake. If Trump
wanted to lob a few missiles over into Iran he would have done it already
so your original premise that the USA did this to start a war is wrong.
You are wrong.
... I don't hate Obama OR Trump. I don't agree with either of their policies though, so my position has been consistent....
..The conflict should be with republicans that once chastised Obama for being a 'wimp', and now gleefully accept when trump backs down as he did in Iran. Obama would have never allowed a US drown to be shot down without consequence as trump has....what a wimp Trump is! Of course I agree with the trump non-response, because the US drown was probably snooping in Iranian airspace. Trump has not put the US military on the ground in too many places so that is where I can support him. He substitutes rhetoric and 'harshly worded tweets'. which nations can ignore or chuckle over.
I'm not moving anywhere out of good old California for now among mostly humans.
Fathertime!
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime. USA and UK entered via Kuwait a country with far worse human rights my friends were told to leave women tied to telephone poles with no food or water in the desert as they were because it was the local custom. Please don't try to sell the macdonalds in every town franchise no one outside the USA believes in the good old USA. No one in Iran will rise up as their entire family tree will be executed. The world is tired of Israel joined with USA propaganda. Trump just makes the USA look like a bunch of idiots the man is an idiot has the USA degenerated so far that an idiot can be their President ?
so what’s Iran to do?
....keep moving closer and closer to shutting down the Strait of Hormuz to oil
they are trying to do it in a way that will have foreign support
from Arab states
from Russia
from China
by "baiting" the USA into making a move that exposes a US Navy Carrier to anti-ship missiles
and Iran will launch 100 missiles at it and sink it
stock market crashes....gas is rationed....dollar crashes.....interest rates start climbing and climbing along with unemployment
...harder to come up with stimulus money to try and offset rising unemployment
Trump....is the one who unilaterally without European support withdrew from the treaty and thus is responsible for starting this entire thing...
Obama cemented the treaty and gave us peace
but if I were Iran...then smack them hard by sinking a carrier....if Iran did this, there would be a LOT of cheers
Oh and btw, when she does croak, are you sure a 'king' will take her place? I mean, rumors have it, and likely The Lady D's little big smelly secret is he ain't exactly a 'he',
Husband has always insisted that lights be off during sex.
After some years, the wife cannot contain her curiosity and turns on light.
Wife: How can you explain your use of that cucumber ?
Husband: You explain the two children.
Cultural and Political Events (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=9.0)
Recent events in Ukraine have captured the interest of the world. This section is available to discuss all such matters, especially as they bear on the women from the FSU. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=.xml;board=9;type=rss)
but you are right about one thing!!!!
I AM "bat shit" crazy!!!!!
I even sell my droppings on Ebay as a natural fertilizer
for home gardeners who insist on the very best...
and the smell?
when you catch a whiff of the aroma of some fresh Krimster guano
you will just feel your vegetables growing faster
I guarantee it!
so what’s Iran to do?
just let their country fall into economic ruin because Donald Trump said so
or...
keep moving closer and closer to shutting down the Strait of Hormuz to oil and LNG shipping
Wrong.
Hate = passionately dislike. Same ol', same ol'...
For the most part wrong again. Me calling trump a 'wimp' is being sarcastic because that is what the conservative patriots would call Obama if he were to have reacted the way trump has to Iran shooting down an expensive drone. Of course now many patriots are refraining from labeling trump a wimp.
This next statement, if read VERY carefully, actually does show you're a conflicted man...
1) It's 'drone'.
2) You call Trump a wimp but you agree with him, which makes you what exactly? Conflicted, maybe?
3) Trump has not put military on the ground in too mane places and you support him, etc..you seem to agree with everything he had done so far based on that statement, yet you hate/passionately dislike his policies...conflicted, maybe?
Trump is continuing and hasn't harmed the recovery that occurred under obama. Many numbers compare closely. Many of his policies aren't progressing.
Unemployment in the sub--4 percentile. Record.
Lowest black/latino unemployment. Record.
Outstanding GDP reports. Awesome!
Highest female employment. Record.
Abolish NAFTA and replaced with USMCA. Amazing.
Rejected the stupid Paris Agreement (depriving Europe of a cash cow). Awesome!
Deals directly with China's unfair trade practices (that everyone agrees IS unfair). Phenomenal!
Mostly eliminated the ISIS caliphate in less than 2 years! Awesome!
Tabled peace negotiations with NK. Bravo!!!!
Despite a deluge of silly obstructions by the Democrats/MSM, had massively exposed cronyism in DC and the DNC including the corruption with the intelligence agencies. Incredible!!!
I mean, there's so much more to state to show how much THE Trump had accomplished in just less than two years of his presidential term as he move forward to Make America Great Again!!!!
Typical hypocritical response. How many proxy wars does the US support AND start? How many people have been killed in our wars?
Peace?!?! How many proxy wars does Iran support? How many people have been killed in those wars?
YOU cheer on the military when other people of other nations are getting killed so what is the difference if other people cheer if US citizens are killed?
Cheers! Cheers for the deaths of American sailors? Cheers for starting a world recession? The only people cheering would be some Iranians and sick, treasonous bastards. Which one are you....sick or treasonous? I hope your behavior in real life is not this disturbing.
i have a cousin whose kid is on one of those carriers, so I'm not cheering
losing a carrier to Iran would be a HUGE military blow to the USA
and Iran can easily accomplish this
Khalij Fars is anti-ship missile produced entirely in Iran
300 km range w
they also make the Ra'ad, an enhanced copy of the Chinese silkworm anti-ship missile
360 km range
" deterrence did. "
and when deterrence no longer deters
because the stakes are too high?
you don't understand Iranians
Dear American Rednecks and Village Idiots
something for you to consider...
August 1, 1941 the USA blocked oil exports to Japan
Dec 7, 1941, Japan responds...
Wrong. I don't hate nor even passionately dislike Trump personally. I know people who do, but personally I think he is rather humorous.
For the most part wrong again. 1Me calling trump a 'wimp' is being sarcastic because that is what the conservative patriots would call Obama if he were to have reacted the way trump has to Iran shooting down an expensive drone. Of course now many patriots are refraining from labeling trump a wimp.
And yes I do agree with trump's decision not to attack Iran militarily. 2I don't see a conflict, I have the capacity to agree with certain aspects of trump policy and disagree with others, and I feel fine about it. 3 I find the conflict with supporters that once advocated hard line tactics when Obama was president now are suddenly dovish because trump 'wimped out'.
Trump is continuing and hasn't harmed the recovery that occurred under obama. Many numbers compare closely. Many of his policies aren't progressing...
Hhhmmm...what a 'pickle'But it's no big dill.
You see how conflicted you are. You previously cited your passionate dislike was about his/their policies. Not personality. Now you're citing personality. You do know the first impulse of a conflicted person is deny that they are. You know that, right?The one is is confused and conflicted sounds like you! Lets be clear, personally trump is ok with me if he were an individual in our society. As president, I think not. That said, it is ok with me if you want to think there is a big conflict in how I view Trump. You are mistaken, but no worries.
I would suspect that YOU are conflicted regarding trump and projecting that conflict onto me. Reason being he has taken positions contrary to prior positions you have taken, like the dealing with the Palestinians. Your Kerr example has no relevance to me Trump allowed the US to take one on the chin and did nothing much to respond except try to 'scare' Iran with words. They are as 'defiant' as ever though so that didn't work either.
...and here are more reasons why I now know for sure you are conflicted.
1. Steve Kerr was asked after losing the 7th game in the finals about what does he think would've happened had Klay Thompson not go down in the 3rd quarter, to which he immediately replied..."I don't 'think' because it didn't happen. He went down!" That, FT, contrary to your stated sentiment above, is an example of a man who is not conflicted. Downed drone under Obama's administration didn't happen during his presidency. It happened with Trump's.
3. In your conflicted state of mind, you aren't able to discern the difference between Obama's 'redline' threat from Trump's cancellation of a military strike. Now mind you, and unless you were ignorant of it, the US succeeded in virtually shutting down IRGC's radar systems and missile base systems rendering the IRGC's incapable of defending itself momentarily to which a supporting ensuing military strike was wholly unnecessary. That was enough to remind those idiots where 'control' really is. Thus, Trump simply said he's open for renegotiation again. SO - you may rest in your laurels that Trump didn't 'do anything' despite what he said he was going to do - but that's OK with me, too. I am not the conflicted one.
I do not watch any TV aside from some youtube clips of which Maddow is never one of them.
Methinks FT, you listen to Rachel Maddow & Co. too much...
The one is is confused and conflicted sounds like you! Lets be clear, personally trump is ok with me if he were an individual in our society. As president, I think not. That said, it is ok with me if you want to think there is a big conflict in how I view Trump. You are mistaken, but no worries.
I would suspect that YOU are conflicted regarding trump and projecting that conflict onto me. Reason being he has taken positions contrary to prior positions you have taken, like the dealing with the Palestinians. Your Kerr example has no relevance to me Trump allowed the US to take one on the chin and did nothing much to respond except try to 'scare' Iran with words. They are as 'defiant' as ever though so that didn't work either.
I really don't care if you personally are conflicted. It really doesn't have anything to issues where I disagree with trump and the attitude he projects. Overall the belligerence he is projecting is probably more harmful then the positives of keeping the economy going well.
I do not watch any TV aside from some youtube clips of which Maddow is never one of them.
Fathertime!
And Japan woke a sleeping giant.
Japan in 1941 was relatively stronger than Iran in 2019.
Iranians are among the deepest strategic thinkers I have ever encountered
ahead of Russians and Chinese, chilling, kinda like melding a Thugee cult into politics
America's military today is designed to dominate any opponent. We train to fight at night when the enemy can't see and when they can see, we blind them.
stop thinking about WWII
you might as well be talking about men in armor
warfare has changed
19 Arabs with box cutters killed more Americans on 9/11 than the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor that took the Japanese 5 aircraft carriers...
Well, I am still very embarrassed by our results in Vietnam.
And also by our results in Afghanistan.
Sure, it is easy to say we didn't really go 'all out' in either case . . . but still, I think it casts some doubt on our invincibility.
Okay now, you remember about what I said regarding 'denial' as a first reaction, right?What difference is it what you said?
Okay now, you remember about what I said regarding 'denial' as a first reaction, right?Clearly you are lacking logic here but run with it all if you like. Reality is I'm not a fan of trump for president. If you don't believe that is the case then I can live with it. I'll still agree with specific decisions he makes, like his 'wimping out', in Iran. Had obama 'wimped out', the patriots would be jumping up and down. Since it was trump, it was smart or he was 'restrained'...had it been obama he would have been a 'wimp'.
I used Steve Kerr's response as an example to show you how a non-conflicted person will never rely on hypothesis to drive their point like you do when you try to tell us what Obama would've done, or not do, had some hypothetical state downing some hypothetical drone. Why? Because like Kerr's position about it - It's utterly useless. Only very conflicted people do that sort of thing.
Many trump supporters aren't conflicted, usually the less intelligent ones of course.
C'mon FT, admit to us you're conflicted. That'll be a good first step to your recovery. :P
21 million barrels per day passes through the strait
what happens when you SUDDENLY take that much oil out of the market
what happens to the price?......just the loss of oil alone would have a devastating effect on the American economy
and 100% gas would be rationed for as long as this conflict lasted
they will be like assassins who climb in your window at night, so...very...silent...
creeping slowly towards your bed
and then put one hand firmly over your mouth so you don't scream
and with their other hand hold a Damascus steel knife, and cut your carotid artery...
then on to the next address on the list
repeated hundreds of times and places across America simultaneously each night....
there are more anti-aircraft missiles than trees in Iran
go long on oil and gold
short the dollar
...history gives decent odds that six months later, the market would be higher than where it stood before such a war broke out.