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Author Topic: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?  (Read 439359 times)

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Offline BillyB

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  In Italy the first case 31 January.


Although you criticize Trump's response to the epidemic, do you know why Italy banned flights from China the same day ONE case was reported and no COVID-19 test kits were in widespread use? Italy knew how many were infected and how many were dying based on doctors reports of the amount of influenza, pneumonia, and deaths being reports over the amount that is normal for that time of year. We do the same thing in America. Anything over the normal amount will be considered COVID-19. The amount Italy had was alarming so they cancelled flights from China before a good portion of the population was tested with test kits.  Italy could not effectively stop the spread so Italy reached the point of locking down the whole country before the test kits revealed the skyrocketing number of infections you see today. Test kits are important to find individuals who are infected and quarantine them but we can still figure out what is happening by skyrocketing reports of influenza.



I don't recall people in 2009-2010 losing their minds.

 

I was reading tfcrew's link to flu epidemics. There is a very good chart in the middle that is educational.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Pandemics

The 2009-2010 swine flu was a Level 1 Pandemic. It had a case fatality rate of .03% which is three times less deadlier than the flu. The reason so many people died from swine flu is because and estimated 11-21% of the people on earth got it. Merkel figures at least half the Germans can get COVID-19 if it isn't stopped soon and that's just in her country.

tfcrew's Hong Kong flu he got, although didn't kill him was probably a more painful experience than any flu he got. That was a level 2 Pandemic. An estimated 7–28% of people on earth got it and 1-4 million people died. It had a case fatality rate of .2% making it twice as deadly as the flu

The Spanish flu was a Level 5 pandemic. 33% on earth got infected and an estimated 20-100 million people died. It had a case fatality rate of 2-3% so it was 20 to 30 times more deadlier than the flu.

NOW COVID-19 last week had a predicted 3.4% death rate making it 34 times more deadlier than the flu. Using this morning's number we have 5617 deaths and 150,052 infected. I'm going to use the same flawed method as the media and assume this battle is over and everybody infected has survived so with 5617 divided by 150,052 translates to 3.74% which means the death rate continues to increase over last weeks numbers. China's numbers were watered down to begin with so we will continue to see death rate increase. The truth death rate may be higher.

So at this time COVID-19 is calculated to be more deadlier than the Spanish Flu. Factor in the fact there many never be a cure or treatment for COVID-19.  Finding vaccines and antiviral medicine for flu viruses is easy. COVID-19 can become worse than the Level 5 Pandemic Spanish Flu. It took a couple of years to get rid of the Spanish Flu. It may take longer to get rid of COVID-19 and we will have to endure periodic hardships. We cannot let COVID-19 remain in our lives like the common cold which we get multiple times each year for life. Although young people rarely die from COVID-19, if they have to endure 2-3 battles a year with COVID-19 for 40 years for a total of 80-120 battles, will they even make it to be 40 years old?

I hope people can finally understand why governments and private organizations are doing what they are doing although this virus hasn't affected many people yet. Obviously there are people on this forum that do not know the seriousness of this virus. They may continue reckless behavior that increases their chance of infection and prolonging the fight against the virus for the rest of us. There may come a point some or most of us are out of a job. Governments will first tell their employees to stay home. Private business will start telling employees to stay home. Then governments will tell everybody except those working the military, emergency services, food and pharmacy industry to stay home. If necessary to save the human race, the next step will be worse than what Italy is going through. Let's hope Italy's quarantine is effective and won't need to subject the population to additional hardships. The world is watching.


Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Online krimster2

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dear fellow rocket scientists of the world!

in regards to which nation shall lead the covid league of nations THIS season...
will it be Italia or America with the coveted “most infected” season statistic?

my soon to be worthless dollars will be on America!!!
Trump will GUARANTEE it!

the less quarantine you do
and the longer you wait to do it “for business reasons”
then the more deaths you have and the longer the pandemic lasts in your territory
Trump IS always making “America Great” with everything he touches
so instead of trailing Italia
we will overtake it SOON!

cutting the CDC budget by 20% and shutting down the global pandemic division and screwing up the testing kits, and not having a full travel quarantine in December was pure genius, no way we are gonna let some little dinky country like Italy be ahead of us, we will EASILY beat them next month on all the statistics...

HA!

WINNING!!!

Offline BC

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GQ,

The average age of those that have passed from the Coronavirus in Italy is 81-82 . Over 20% of the population here is over 65 with the more densely populated area being the affected area in the north.

As stated before, without testing like is being done elsewhere we (in the US) can't know the numbers of those that did pass because of Covid instead of influenza or other respiratory illnesses.

Offline BC

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Billy,

there is no way to accurately estimate what numbers are for a flu season.

CDC can only guesstimate somewhere between 22,000-55,000 deaths in the US this flu season.  It's no different here.  What was noted is patients where lab tests for influenza and other respiratory diseases was done and results came back negative for them indicating something very amiss.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

The Guv of NY was just on TV explaining that numbers there are only what they are because they were the folks that got tested.  It's the criteria used to see who needs a test or not.

If you only test someone that has travelled from an affected area and has symptoms, or others that have been in contact with a confirmed infected person you will miss those that only have symptoms but may be Covid infected.

Goes sorta like this:

"How many cases do you have?"
"Uh.... 55.."

"How many tests did you do?"
"Uh.... 55.."

Offline GQBlues

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GQ,

The average age of those that have passed from the Coronavirus in Italy is 81-82 . Over 20% of the population here is over 65 with the more densely populated area being the affected area in the north.

These numbers are all in direct parallel the world over, BC. The ages of the deceased are roughly the same anywhere. Besides, Americans 65 and older is almost as many as the entire population of Italy.

Quote
As stated before, without testing like is being done elsewhere we (in the US) can't know the numbers of those that did pass because of Covid instead of influenza or other respiratory illnesses.

I don't buy that. They may be lacking in COVID-19 testing before, but certainly isn't lost in determining if the person died of influenza - post-mortem - instead of COVID-19. Hell they'll probably jump at the chance to declare this if so..

« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 09:10:52 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BillyB

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there is no way to accurately estimate what numbers are for a flu season.


A ballpark figure is good enough. We don't have to have accurate numbers on who has COVID-19. We know WHO reported a new virus showed up warning all nations. We know it's extremely dangerous, We know Italy's average flu infections for January over the years. We know Italian doctors reported a huge and almost instantaneous spike in influenza, pneumonia and deaths related in January. Even without the ability to mass test for COVID-19, your government or any government can figure out many reported cases shouldn't be blamed on the flu virus but the new guy in town. So even before your nation and any nation reach thousands of infections, they put up flight bans and closed borders. Test kits were not needed for them to make those decisions. There's a strong desire for some to criticize Trump but he took some of the earliest and strictest actions that are still in effect today compared to other Western nations. The most important job a test kit has is to identify the infected and get them isolated away from those who are not infected. If this virus was the swine flu and less deadlier than the flu, we could just remain calm and carry on.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Online krimster2

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OMG!!  America is gonna take the Covid pennant from China
we are gonna win the division title this season!!!!

TRUMP!!!  TRUMP!!!
USA!!! USA!!!
WINNING!!! MAGA
get yer little red hats!!!!

Offline GQBlues

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I missed the costco line today, but my daughter tells me the line at trader joe's was out the door too.    I just worked away like a little mole all day.   
Got notice that daughter's college classes are no longer going to be on campus for the rest of the semester now.  All the school districts in this area are closed too. 

It seems the nation is starting to get much more serious about this virus.   It doesn't appear to be a hoax, but it also seems there aren't too many bodies piling up just yet. 

Fathertime!

LAUSD decided to close all its schools. This move, logical as it may be under the current climate, also causes an unintended consequence. Pray many of the parents of these kids are not in the medical profession. Parents, or single parent, of the younger aged children will be burdened now for having to stay at home from work to fend for their kid/s.

You'll soon see your neighborhood supermarts (Target, Walmart, Malls, etc..) housing tents and makeshift drive throughs with alien-looking hazmat-suited beings abducting Americans into their keep.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online krimster2

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gangs of orphaned children, dirty and unkept are roaming through the neighborhood...
and digging up gardens and filling their canteens from my pool
a 12 ga with #4 shot sent them all scattering...
I guess that's why they call it a "scatter gun"
but damn those kids can run, like a buncha Kenyans hyped up on cheap crack...

but next time...
it's double ought buck...

I guess I should get my friend's backhoe and start digging some holes out back...

3 months from now, no one's gonna pay attention to a couple of missing teens...
3 months from now, no autopsies are gonna be performed - and Ethylene glycol tastes very sweet

well, while the rest of the passengers, are listening to the "Don't Panic" Speech on the intercom
I'm just about ready to lower the life boat and paddle away into the night
and just follow the "Drinking Gourd" way up in the sky
it will be "A Night To Remember"

« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 09:53:38 AM by krimster2 »

Offline BC

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We know Italy's average flu infections for January over the years. We know Italian doctors reported a huge and almost instantaneous spike in influenza, pneumonia and deaths related in January.

3.5-6 million flu infections is the typical range here in the season. Hundreds die from the infection and 5-7000 from complications. 2019 was especially up there around 8 million infections. So who is to know if 2020 is high, low or whatever for 'normal' influenza?  We will know somewhere around April-June when the reports ar published.

As other countries, testing started for those from Covid areas or those in contact with confirmed cases.  Testing was then extended to those with only symptoms resulting in the numbers we see today - which is just starting now in the US weeks later.

You seem to be grasping, but ok go for it.


Online krimster2

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"We know WHO reported a new virus showed up warning all nations. "

so are you saying, "WHO was on first"?

Offline BillyB

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I've been getting emails from restaurants offering discounts if I come in and order it to go or have it delivered. Presidents and CEOs are describing what they are doing based off the recent events. They are offering hand sanitizers at the door, educating employees about washing hands and keeping surfaces cleaned. Supermarkets are sending out emails they are hiring. I small medical clinic I drove by yesterday had a person outside the door to screen patients before they enter.

1 out of every 3425 people in Italy is infected. Switzerland's infection cases have skyrocketed and they have 1 out of every 6232 cases infected. 1 out of every 5103 people in Norway is infected. 1 out of 6775 people in Denmark is infected. These nations are close to having to enact drastic measures soon. Italy announce the lockdown of the nation when they had about 1 out of every 6000 infected IIRC. Surprisingly, China with dense populations had this virus longer than anybody has only one out of every 17,148 people infected. No wonder WHO praised their ability to manage the virus. :rolleyes:


BC and Krim, my county, hardest hit in all America doesn't have our hospitals full. People are not sick filling them up like what is going on in Italy. Because my county is hardest hit, we get the lions share of test kits that have been distributed. People are lining up for testing and if those numbers start becoming alarming, then I would know based on government action. No government action has happened for the last few days since the no gatherings of more than 250 rule went into effect. I really think America overall will be fine. If quarantines happen, it will happen at the state or local levels to contain the spread. People are going to die. How much and for how long depends on us. People need to do their part to limit and prevent spread. If we lose this battle, our future generations will continue to suffer. Don't expect a vaccine or treatment ever to be found.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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BC is just maybe too busy googling trump hate materials instead of paying better attention in his ‘home’ country

FFS, GQB

If you want to be 'respected' by those WITH a clue - stop 'quoting' stuff your ( smarter) 'opponent  posted or said or does ( did)


Most cases - for now - in Italy are in a very concentrated area and those ( who know ) understand that the US ( and UK )  simply hasn't got the ITU beds / facilities Italy has..

IF 'we' get hot spots like Lombardy .. there will be folks dying for the lack of kit - who MIGHT stand a chance ..


This tosh about 'hate' / 'envy' is all in your tiny mind .....   


Gawd save us from 'patriots' the world over ...








Online krimster2

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nee ha!

to the guy who “did” covid...

most BRUTAL MFer EVER since your direct relatives Ghenghis and Mao...

my questions to you...
do people in the government know?
will you reveal yourself openly sometime in the future?

I am stunned...
I totally see the trajectory of what you’re trying to achieve...
you are so high on a scale that even someone like me can’t see it
who the hell are you?
maybe even better to ask, “what are you”?

will you answer me here?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 10:30:04 AM by krimster2 »

Offline GQBlues

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FFS, GQB

If you want to be 'respected' by those WITH a clue -

:ROFL: Who? You? LMAO!

Quote
stop 'quoting' stuff your ( smarter) 'opponent  posted or said or does ( did)

El smart one, repost the above because you simply have a hard time talking straight.

Quote
Most cases - for now - in Italy are in a very concentrated area and those ( who know ) understand that the US ( and UK )  simply hasn't got the ITU beds / facilities Italy has..

Well then why did they NOT recognize this fact and ban flights (they demonize Trump for doing. They had a 2-week lead time) coming from the hot zones, dumbo? Your weak attempt to cover the reality in Italy (did you miss that videc of that dude with his dead sister and his call the night before?), just as the rest of the socialized system, all had been exposed for what they pretty much are.

Quote
IF 'we' get hot spots like Lombardy .. there will be folks dying for the lack of kit - who MIGHT stand a chance ..

IT IS DIABOLICAL THAT THE VERY FOLKS WHO GAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN THE SYSTEM THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU GLORIFY EVERY CHANCE YOU GET, ARE THE PEOPLE BEING LEFT ALONE TO SUFFER AND SLAUGTHER. These folks are dying in a very slow asphyxiated death because of total unpreparedness of their socialized medicine. Do you even understand that? It reminds me of those 15,000 dead French folks who died because of a two week heat wave not long ago. 35,000 in Europe total. They died not because of the triple digit heat (113 F We nearly have that every year in Kali, man), but because the French medical system did not have adequate equipment to save their lives.

That have absolutely NOTHING to do with demographics and DENSITY.

Get it in your head that you're now facing the realities that had been screaming in your faces all these time that you are BEING PROVEN HEINOUSLY WRONG.


Quote
This tosh about 'hate' / 'envy' is all in your tiny mind .....

THAT, is exactly what that is. You really must learn to deal with it. 

Quote
Gawd save us from 'patriots' the world over ...

The US been there, done that. The US obviously had made that mistake twice the last century. Very likely do it again, too for our helpless misguided, jealous, envious, hateful neighbors ingrates across the pond when they start cannibalizing each other again.

Get closure, 'homes....these are reality you need to face.

ADMIT reality!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 10:57:29 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Trenchcoat

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GQ,

The average age of those that have passed from the Coronavirus in Italy is 81-82 . Over 20% of the population here is over 65 with the more densely populated area being the affected area in the north.

As stated before, without testing like is being done elsewhere we (in the US) can't know the numbers of those that did pass because of Covid instead of influenza or other respiratory illnesses.

And yet nearly 100 percent of those that die are elderly and/or have underlying health problems. Possible but I fear governments around the world may be keeping it from the general public that maybe a large group of those that are now dying (as opposed to at the start of this pandemic in the west) are younger & don't have underlying health conditions. I could be wrong but if you think about it and that was the case and news got out about it what then? Odds are people would panic even more and more likely quit their jobs and go into hibination, that would be total panic and cause any sort of daily life as we have known it to cease. Forget ordering take aways, grocery shopping, getting people in to fix this & that, etc.

I think this as they just keep trotting out the line about 'they were elderly with underlying health problems' but have most of those in Italy of late who have died from it been that? There just seems to be a blank there and when there is a blank it is usually something they are not telling us.
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Offline msmob

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And yet nearly 100 percent of those that die are elderly and/or have underlying health problems. Possible but I fear governments around the world may be keeping it from the general public that maybe a large group of those that are now dying (as opposed to at the start of this pandemic in the west) are younger & don't have underlying health conditions. I could be wrong but if you think about it and that was the case and news got out about it what then? Odds are people would panic even more and more likely quit their jobs and go into hibination, that would be total panic and cause any sort of daily life as we have known it to cease. Forget ordering take aways, grocery shopping, getting people in to fix this & that, etc.

I think this as they just keep trotting out the line about 'they were elderly with underlying health problems' but have most of those in Italy of late who have died from it been that? There just seems to be a blank there and when there is a blank it is usually something they are not telling us.

Trench,

BC and Sandro are out there ... Sandro is in the 'thick' of it .. My 'ol Uni friend is in central Rome ... Have you heard from any of them backing up your 'theory' ?

Medical staff are pulling long stints and running themselves into the ground physically

I'm being sent some lovely examples of community spirit in Rome - as my friend walks her dog ..


« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 02:37:09 PM by msmob »

Offline Trenchcoat

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If we look at the map here of known Coronavirus cases worldwide:
http://tinyurl.com/rc2a632


We see that places that don't have it bad are either current cold temperature places like Eastern Europe, Russian & Ukraine, etc or hot places like South America & Africa. Possibly I am thinking that Africans & Hispanics might have a lot higher built in immunity to it, maybe total immunity? I don't think it can all be put down to chance and the way these governments are handling the problem. By now they should all be having it but are not.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 11:39:24 AM by AnonMod »
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Offline BillyB

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IF 'we' get hot spots like Lombardy .. there will be folks dying for the lack of kit - who MIGHT stand a chance ..


Test Kits will not save a person's life. Test kits only identify COVID-19. If an ill person goes to the hospital with pneumonia, the doctor will take the patient in for treatment. Doctor doesn't need to know if the pneumonia is bacterial or viral infection to begin treatment but there is not treatment for COVID-19. There is no anti-viral medicine. So if a doctor tells a patient with a slight fever to go home and stay away from people, it's no different then the doctor telling the patient lay down in this hospital bed and stay away from people. It doesn't matter if the person is home or at the hospital. They have to ride out COVID-19 on their own. The only advantage a person with COVID has in the hospital is that they can get a machine to breathe easier and quicker access to medicine to relieve pain. Medicine to relieve pain can be sent home with the patient. But governments can't trust people to self isolate for 30 days on their own. Test kits are needed to identify those infected with COVID and lock them up even if they don't want to be locked up.

Africa is starting to show signs of infection. It'll probably skyrocket. They have less means to control the situation. After wealthy nations finish their battle with the virus in a few years, they may begin helping Africa.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Trench,

BC and Sandro are out there ... Sandro is in the 'thick' of it .. My 'ol Uni friend is in central Rome ... Have you heard from any of them backing up your 'theory' ?

Medical staff are pulling long stints and running themselves into the ground physically

I'm been sent some lovely examples of community spirit in Rome - as my friend walks her dog ..

Mobe, I haven't seen any posts here from Sandro of late. These numbers of people we are seeing being affected in Italy are still quite low in a country of millions. Yet it is spreading rapidly, it very much looks at present that by summer we will all be in a even very much worse situation than we are in today. People before WWI and WWII hit proper did much the same, they carried on as if life was normal, but it wasn't, some people like to shut out the bad news and pretend it doesn't exist and hope it just goes away. It rarely tends to they just don't want to exist in the awful reality that we are in.

Do you know what happens in an emergency in a plane such as like when a fire breaks out or similar and a place has to force land. There are passengers that realise the danger are motivated to survive and are on their feet. Then there are passengers that just sit there or just stand there frozen unmoving in the aisle blocking the means of escape of the other passengers. They just don't want to believe the danger they are in and would rather see out whatever little time remains till the end in tranquil oblivion rather than take a chance however large or little as to making a move for survival.

If BC & Sandro a wealthy as they probably are, retired, etc then they have the means to not have to worry about problems people that have to work have to worry about, etc. It's far easier for them to act as if nothing bad is happening and it's much the same as normal. For them some, maybe may things are the same as normal for the moment and they are enjoying that while it lasts. Things are very much anything other than normal for most there however.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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But governments can't trust people to self isolate for 30 days on their own. Test kits are needed to identify those infected with COVID and lock them up even if they don't want to be locked up.

Indeed, I think many people that have got it won't go to the hospital with it until or if it gets pretty bad. If I had it I wouldn't unless it was pretty bad, I would self isolate as best as possible or I might just be unsure not really knowing if I had the flu or the Coronavirus but in any case I wouldn't bother to get checked out since the thought of being locked up stuck in a bed with sweet F'all to do other than be bored dementedly for the next few weeks would scare me off from even contemplating doing that. I would not blame others for wanting to avoid doing that also, lol and now so many have got it and it's spread is pretty much a sure thing there is little point in doing that anyway.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

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http://time.com/5801726/coronavirus-models-forecast

The degree to which the U.S. government and the healthcare industry can coordinate efforts to test individuals more effectively — a process that has been confusing, slow and riddled with errors — could mean the difference between tens of thousands of cases over the next six weeks, or well over a million.



Trump's decisions regarding covid, will cause this number to rise into the millions as quickly as possible and he will call this his "victory"
and you guys will be calling for a parade in his honor

see all Trump really does is throw the dart...
then go up to the dart board
and draw a bullseye around wherever the dart hit...
and then he says "look another BULLSEYE"!

and Fox news says "Trump scores another direct hit"
and you guys think Trump is some kinda Wyatt Earp
when in reality he doesn't even know which end of the gun to point




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Deaths from Coronavirus have doubled today in the UK with 10 more deaths. All had underlying health conditions and the majority 8 out if the ten were men. Again could show that men suffer worse and also that we are getting to those when cases started a little while ago now. Think that it will be longer till we might see younger people without underlying health conditions possibly not making it. Also that the death rate like Italy will unfortunately likely climb and climb.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Coronavirus+worldwide&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rev2&prmd=nimv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRpdL0wproAhWxkFwKHRHbBX4Q_AUoAnoECAoQAg#imgrc=u_uyPCybRmliNM
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....The same information resolution is not available to the President of the United States....

A long time ago I mentioned the problem with testing.  The US had tested only a few hundred cases, while in comparison South Korea had done tens of thousands. 

When the smoke clears, we will have a better understanding of what went wrong.   We will also know in a couple of months if the testing limitations were a major factor. 

Meanwhile our capacity for robust testing is rapidly increasing using Roche (Swiss medical company) technology for highly automated tests, with results reported in 3-½ hours.  The testing  "can be run on Roche’s fully-automated machines which are already installed in hospitals and laboratories across the U.S. and around the world."

Testing is not the only tool.   We have relied on clinical diagnosis, epidemiological studies, and monitoring by the health departments.   Another effective tool was Trump's travel ban in late-January.    That clearly has helped. 

 
Quote
When this all calms down a bit a postmortem will surely be performed and we will be able to see how lacking our capabilities are to react in a timely manner to such a crisis. 

It will be a subject of utmost interest, with fingers pointed everywhere.  Sadly, there will be a large number of people who fell through the cracks in the floor. 

Quote
The relative calm I see here in Italy is due to concise messaging, accurate information and concrete actions that are very visible to the population.

Calm is important given the news from Italy. 

The postmortem will provide evidence of which nation had the most effective procedures and leadership.  Currently, it seems Singapore and South Korea were the most effective, yet it is too early to make that conclusion.  And any analysis needs to consider the effect of existing systems to  protect individual freedoms.   

Until the postmortem, I see no value in criticizing.   However, if blaming the crisis on Trump lowers someone's anxiety, that's great because lowered anxiety will help an individual's immunity system.   Keep in mind that many important decisions are made largely at the State level, with much responsibility delegated to the local health departments and our doctors.    For example, the State Dept. of Health decided who was tested and not tested.   
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 01:41:43 PM by Gator »

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Trump's decisions regarding covid, will cause this number to rise into the millions as quickly as possible and he will call this his "victory"
and you guys will be calling for a parade in his honor


The Las Vegas betting over/under is 130 million.  I took the over. 


Edited to report this as "FAKE NEWS"
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 01:43:46 PM by Gator »

 

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