More Bad News for Russia

[Muzh]

How do we manage our giant debt going forward?  Actually I think there are ways, but in certain respects we are not moving in that direction currently. 


No,  not a Conservative hardliner.  Is it corporations that are scripting this?  I hadn't heard that before, how does it benefit a corporation to assert the nation has a serious financial issue?


Fathertime!

Just read financial news and get updated.

[Belvis]

As for your continued historical argument that your Ambassador was correct and, therefore, was correct in telling the Poles that they were partially responsible for WWII?

Skipping all your emotional post I'd like to continue with the sentence above.
The  Ambassador was correct that Poles were partially responsible for WWII because of their position in 1938. Was he correct in telling this to Poles? That's another issue, I'd prefer to avoid discussing the  moral aspects and concentrate on history.

[Muzh]

Skipping all your emotional post I'd like to continue with the sentence above.
The  Ambassador was correct that Poles were partially responsible for WWII because of their position in 1938. Was he correct in telling this to Poles? That's another issue, I'd prefer to avoid discussing the  moral aspects and concentrate on history.

Sorry, but your ambassador is also full of shit. He is wrong and he knows it. But that's another issue, right?

[jone]

Yes, of course you would not wish to have an opinion on whether an Ambassador, the leading representative of your country, should tell a country that they were:

1.) Partially responsible for WWII.  2.) That Russia invaded the country because they wanted a buffer between themselves and Hitler and 3.) That the reason they killed so many Poles after the war was because Russia wanted a 'Friendly Neighbor' (which Russia could control).

My post was that this is the wrong thing to tell a host country.  You stated that the Ambassador was right.  Perhaps you should be called into the Foreign Office of Poland today and explain why you think it is important to tell Poland in a discussion group these things.  I'm sure you would fare no better than your ambassador did today.

As for the history, it is blah, blah, blah.  Hitler wanted the territory.  He was going to get it.  Poland, in between Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, actually sided with the Germans.  Poland knew that Stalin had designs on the Sovietization of Poland (which was begun only one week after the invasion was completed). 

Your argument, should you wish to continue, flies directly in the face of your current government.  All of Europe is united against your invasion of Ukraine.  They have created sanctions.

Your argument was that if Poland had united with Russia and Czechoslovakia, and any other nations that could be rounded up, would have prevented Germany and Russia from kicking off the invasion of Poland, and the European version of WWII?  Then, with your reasoning, Europe should be able to back Putin off his grandiose plans for Soviet Union, 2.0. 

I guess we will wait and see. 

[Gator]

Belvis, there is nothing wrong if you choose to  debate to practice your English if not your debating skills.  You do understand that this is not a debating contest where a debater gains points by artfully making "black" into  "gray" if not "white." 

It is good to hear the Kremlin perspective and I appreciate how you have done this for a long time at RWD,  especially if there is some gray.  In this case, this is clearly black and white which makes you like the defense attorney taking far-fetched  positions to try and impart an element of doubt regarding his  obviously guilty client. 

[jone]

Just watched Putin's UN speech.  He re-iterated his oft stated position on Ukraine.  He said that a foreign country's military created a coupe.  He also said that this country (the US) started the civil war there.

What a bunch of crap.

He did not mention invading Krim or the invasion of Eastern Ukraine.  He failed to mention that the same legislators who were in power before Maidan are the same ones there now.  (Except, of course, from Krim and parts of Donbas and Lughansk.)

More of the Big Russian Lie.

[fathertime]

Just read financial news and get updated.

I read the financial news all the time.  I've concluded we have a serious financial problem going forward.  Why are you convinced this is a corporate line?

Fathertime!

[Muzh]

I read the financial news all the time.  I've concluded we have a serious financial problem going forward.  Why are you convinced this is a corporate line?

Fathertime!

If you want to hear what the pigs are discussing at the trough, you have to wallow in the filth to get a closer point of view. 

[fathertime]

If you want to hear what the pigs are discussing at the trough, you have to wallow in the filth to get a closer point of view. 

Well that is cute, but apparently you believe the corporations want us to believe the nation has a severe financial problem...but you don't believe it is actually true.   I may see where you are going with this, but it would be nice if you came right out and said it.


 I do think owing close to 19trillion is a major problem, and will be pretty harmful at some point, as it continues to rise.  Interest rates going up now, will cost a lot of additional money on the debt...maybe that is a good thing...but it does cause an array of problems.


Fathertime!     

[Muzh]

Well that is cute, but apparently you believe the corporations want us to believe the nation has a severe financial problem...but you don't believe it is actually true.   I may see where you are going with this, but it would be nice if you came right out and said it.


 I do think owing close to 19trillion is a major problem, and will be pretty harmful at some point, as it continues to rise.  Interest rates going up now, will cost a lot of additional money on the debt...maybe that is a good thing...but it does cause an array of problems.


Fathertime!     

How much are $19 trillion in 1940s money?

[fathertime]

How much are $19 trillion in 1940s money?

I think you worded that wrong but 19 trillion/15.28=1.24Trillion.   


Our national debt in 1940 was under 45 billion though.  Big difference between 1.24 trillion and 45 billion, so I don't see the relevance YET....  If you aren't going to outright answer, then keep it coming with the indirect responses.  Eventually we will get there.


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

Boe, I have known many Russians.  My perspective is unique in that, up until a year ago, did business with them.  The attitudes displayed this year are like nothing in my history of knowing the Russian people.  There is a huge and active disinformation campaign targeted at the Russian people, themselves.  The problem is that the rest of the world sees it for what it is.

One of the sites I watch, with regularity, is the site that evaluates the Ukrainian conflict from the perspective of social media.  It is interesting to watch the quieting down of all confrontation as Putin gets ready to address the United Nations.  Of course, one of the things he will ask for is the elimination of sanctions.  I would guess he will pose this as a new statement of where things are, etc.

For the record, on an individual basis, the Russians are not suffering much.  On a national scale, the Kremlin put aside a huge rainy day fund that it is exhausting now due to oil prices and the lack of foreign investment.  When that money is gone, Russia will have no choice but to either rescind its empire goals or to lash out in a full scale war of acquisition.

Ah, but those attitudes are very much in line with what I know of Russians.  As for disinformation, you forget, I lived in the USSR, where disinformation was an art form.

[mendeleyev]

Jone, they are suffering more than most are willing to admit. It is a crime to admit it these days, for starters. Part of the "spin" is to self-proclaim that nothing is wrong.

However, this week it seems that in major cities the real cheese began to run out, and vegetable oil based Russian substitutes began filling shelves. Social media has been an accurate gauge at how the new cheese is being received.

Of the good cheese remaining, stores have been caught mislabeling it, resulting in large overcharges. One TV news showed a customer going in undercover. The good cheese in that example was labeled as weighing twice what it really weighted when put on a scale.

[Boethius]

mendy, in Soviet times, both Russia and Ukraine had superb cheeses.  I wonder how much of that was supplanted by oligarchic greed and easy imports.

[mendeleyev]

After the fall, it seemed like the agri business was seldom a priority. I'm guessing that you have hit on something.

Meanwhile, my MIL keeps asking Mrs M when I am scheduled for another trip to Amsterdam.  Bringing it back however may be a challenge.

[mendeleyev]

Thank you. I make posts here to preserve my English from rusting. Very good method to be in touch with live language.

Belvis, it was just a hunch from something you said.

[Belvis]

Belvis, it was just a hunch from something you said.

Anyway you has played it up as a compliment, and I made the responce gesture. Probably we played the passage too long I suppose you did not believe I swallowed what you said about native language.

You do understand that this is not a debating contest where a debater gains points by artfully making "black" into  "gray" if not "white." 
...
In this case, this is clearly black and white which makes you like the defense attorney taking far-fetched  positions to try and impart an element of doubt regarding his  obviously guilty client. 

Your weak point here is that you have decided firmly what is black. In movies with cowboys there are no questions who bear black and white hats, even though they're gray ones.  But in our disputes the color map is changing chades in relation to citizenship and wife's nationality
Of course, I don't buy the exchange of arguments for  personal beliefs as guys are trying to employ in our debates. BTW, color talk does not look as an argument too

[Muzh]

I think you worded that wrong but 19 trillion/15.28=1.24Trillion.   


Our national debt in 1940 was under 45 billion though.  Big difference between 1.24 trillion and 45 billion, so I don't see the relevance YET....  If you aren't going to outright answer, then keep it coming with the indirect responses.  Eventually we will get there.


Fathertime!

How much do you think this little scuffle (WWII) cost?

[fathertime]

How much do you think this little scuffle (WWII) cost?

While researching your 1st question, I did notice how costly WWII was.    Well after the war, we enjoyed great financial times for decades....I don't think that is in the cards this time...lots of competition nowadays.


Fathertime!

[jone]

Jone, they are suffering more than most are willing to admit. It is a crime to admit it these days, for starters. Part of the "spin" is to self-proclaim that nothing is wrong.

However, this week it seems that in major cities the real cheese began to run out, and vegetable oil based Russian substitutes began filling shelves. Social media has been an accurate gauge at how the new cheese is being received.

Of the good cheese remaining, stores have been caught mislabeling it, resulting in large overcharges. One TV news showed a customer going in undercover. The good cheese in that example was labeled as weighing twice what it really weighted when put on a scale.

It will take more than a little cheese to upset the Russian apple cart.  I don't wish bad things to happen to any people.  But with the ardent nationalism currently, I doubt that anyone will complain too much.  Makes you wonder, though, why Italian cheese was selected for bulldozing.  (Was it Italian cheese?)  Perhaps the government was setting expectations for this shortage.

[mendeleyev]

It was also Dutch cheese, probably based on the Dutch wish to have the UN take up the issue on the shooting down of a certain airliner over Eastern Ukraine.

[BdHvA]

It was also Dutch cheese, probably based on the Dutch wish to have the UN take up the issue on the shooting down of a certain airliner over Eastern Ukraine.

The Dutch and for that the matter the English make very good hard or semi hard cheese, in the States the English stuff it is called Cheddar and a best known brand of the Dutch version is Old Amsterdam.

The English also make Stilton and another green/blue cheese. Great stuff!

The southern European countries make cheese as well some of it wonderful and yummy. Often soft & green/blue. I would say France leads on all fronts, with England close behind.

Personally I am not a big fan of German cheese, unlike the cars inconsistent and non descript.

I have never had a "tasty" cheese from the former Soviet Union and I have tried a fair number.

[SANDRO43]

The southern European countries make cheese as well some of it wonderful and yummy. Often soft & green/blue.

Thank you for mentioning us in passing .

I would say France leads on all fronts, with England close behind.

I beg to differ. As I wrote on a previous occasion:

- France may excel in soft cheeses (Brie, Camambert, etc.)
- Italy excels in semi-hard (e.g. Mozzarella, Provolone, etc.) and hard cheeses (e.g. Parmigiano, Grana padano, etc.)

The only green/blue Italian cheese of any fame is Gorgonzola.

As for varieties, just look at these 2 lists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_cheeses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_cheeses

[mendeleyev]

Being ethnically Dutch, it is obvious to me that the Dutch make the best cheese in the world. 

That being said, I've had some fantastic cheese in Belarus (likely copied from Dutch masters), but given the rural nature of Belarus, not enough is made in Belarus to supply the world. I think that the rural factor, and the process handed down from generation to generation of small family farmers, may explain the high quality.

Dairy products from Belarus are imported into Russia, and if you can find such in stores before they are quickly snatched up, the end result makes for a real treat.

[jone]

I hail from America's Dairyland, Wisconsin.  In Wisconsin, every third farm, it seems, has its own cheese factory.  Where I grew up, there were at least 10 factories within a five mile radius.  Some are excellent.  One of my favorite cheeses, if aged properly, is an American cheese called Muenster.  (I once had a great aunt named Iola Muenster.  She did not age well.)

This cheese is great for grilled cheese sandwiches, tuna melts or macaroni and cheese.  It is not found in many stores because it takes extra effort to make and is now displaced by more common cheeses that are mass produced like Mozzarella.  But if you are ever in Wisconsin, make sure you ask for the local variety of Muenster and you will be in for a subtle treat.