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Author Topic: Prospects for Crimea return  (Read 42057 times)

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Offline JayH

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Prospects for Crimea return
« on: May 20, 2016, 12:08:03 AM »

From time to time the chances of Ukraine recovering the Crimea are countenanced here on the forum, Our resident Russian "apologists" who persist in rationalising the Kremlin excesses keep chanting the party line "Crimean is Russian" and believe Russia will hold onto the Crimea.

In the last week very significant decisions were made in the USA that will have a profound affect on the ability of Ukraine to self determination and self preservation.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18966.msg431314;topicseen#msg431314

The sanctions are now really biting in Russia and more are questioning why they are there-and is it worth it. Putin and the Kremlin have believed they could out bluff the west-- and outlast sanctions. An obvious military setback in eastern Ukraine and the subsequent military pressure being place on the Crimea  could well be the catalyst that leads Russia to face up to the reality of it's action.

As the Ukrainian political arena witnesses daily internal battles and the public is engaged in lively discussion over the new composition of the Cabinet or the appointment of a new prosecutor general, it seems that the people in Crimea have been left out of the Ukrainian information field, alone with their problems. Despite the fact that almost every week, there is an increasing number of reports of searches, arrests, and even disappearances of people (for the most part, Crimean Tatars) in the annexed territory, it seems that amid today's problems in resolving the internal political crisis, the issue of de-occupation of the peninsula has gone way down in Ukraine’s political agenda.




Prospects for Crimea return

It seems the no one, except Russia, has any doubt that Crimea is an integral part of Ukraine. But these are just words. Unfortunately, the reality is different. More than two years ago, Russia occupied the Ukrainian peninsula on the Black Sea. And Crimea must definitely be returned. But the slogans like "Crimea is Ukraine” are not enough.

http://www.unian.info/politics/1350447-prospects-for-crimea-return.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2016, 01:34:47 AM »
JayH

I'm here and the prospects of Russian man in the street 'giving up' Crimea are zip..

Putin has used Crimea to deflect from economic woes and only you and a few deluded Russians think sanctions are the main reason for the economic 'crisis' - which had started before the Kremlin 'away games'

YES, Russia agreed it was part of Ukraine

YES, they broke those agreements

BUT....  Putin has instilled a belief that their country is resurgent and the USA planned to deny this and plotted with corrupt Ukrainians to overthrow a legitimate President and NATO was going to get Crimean bases.

Russians believe any hardship is down TO the USA and until they wake up that the economy will always be in a mess every time oil prices fall - they won't /don't feel/ understand the outrage -generally felt outside Russia - for the 'away games'.

An example..Olya Kurylenko is from Berdyansk - Ukrainian, right ?...'No'..she's 'Russian'..when I point out the location of her birth city I'm regarded with the look a dog lover offers their beloved, but daft, pooch - 'it's all Russia, really'...I constantly get the feeling that it's. '' Mark ... you're a nice guy - you don't understand..''

Patriotism, is running high, here - Putin has linked the Soviet victories over Nazi Fascism with new Russian 'power' and the Communists may be using Stalin in their campaign in elections

THAT is pretty scary..







« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 02:54:57 AM by msmobyone »
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Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2016, 02:48:32 AM »
Being polite--  you restate the Russian positions and attitude. plus the complications.
Your premise is that nothing will change in Russia( & Ukraine)- that is the cornerstone of all of the Russian attitude.

Much as you don't like it-- but the forum has detailed the internal bad news for Russia extensively. Eventually that crisis will spill over.
That is saying it as simply as I can.

In Ukraine itself-- the smartest idea has been to reform the country and make it a better place to live- and thus- desirable. That really is a major point--that in itself will counter all the Russian propaganda . Right now--it is tough for Ukrainians-- but in reality better than 5 years ago already. For those who have seen Ukraine in this period -it has changed noticeably. And yes-it has a long way to go.
            Needless to say--the Russian invasion and attempts to disrupt Ukraine in every way possible has not helped. Ironically ifor the immediate future--it may have been a positive for Ukraine. eg no longer beholden to Russia over gas and oil ,
           I can go on--but my point is clear enough.

I do wonder how your Russian man on the street is going to react when it dawns on him the degree of lying that has been done. How many Russians need to be sent home in body bags, How he will react when the "mighty" Russian military machine gets its arse kicked out of eastern Ukraine-- and then Ukraine finally stands up to Russia  over the invasion of the .Crimea.

        Your Russian man on the street is unlikely to have much say in overturning the Kremlin craziness--but his view will affect those who are capable of doing something.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 03:24:09 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2016, 03:16:45 AM »
you restate the Russian positions and attitude. plus the complications.
Your premise is that nothing will change in Russia( & Ukraine)- that is the cornerstone of all of the Russian attitude.

Well, you already misrepresented my explaining the stance of the maj. of people - based on govt misdirection  - my opinion .. if that was being 'polite'  ;)


Much as you don't like it-- but the forum has detailed the internal bad news for Russia extensively. Eventually that crisis will spill over.
That is saying it as simply as I can.

Now, you presume to suggest I'm an 'apologist' for Kremlin 'away games' ?   :D

You are telling it as you see it - taking no account of my advising you that there is not the remotest sign of any 'guilt / remorse / contrition - or change of heart...let alone 'agreeing' that targeted sanctions on those supporting the 'away games' are affecting the man in the street- which is how the Kremlin want man in the street to feel  ;D

In Ukraine itself-- the smartest idea has been to reform the country and make it a better place to live- and thus- desirable. That really is a major point--that in itself will counter all the Russian propaganda .

That's admirable - but how is taking positive action in Ukraine 'countering' the opinion of Russian man in the street ?

Right now--it is tough for Ukrainians-- but in reality better than 5 years ago already. For those who have seen Ukraine in this period -it has changed noticeably. And yes-it has a long way to go.
            Needless to say--the Russian invasion and attempts to disrupt Ukraine in every way possible has not helped. Ironically ifor the immediate future--it may have been a positive for Ukraine. eg no longer beholden to Russia over gas and oil ,
           I can go on--but my point is clear enough.



I wholeheartedly agree that Ukrainians need a roots up anti-corruption drive and a frozen civil war in the east and Crimea's 'removal' don't help.

But ...Your point, seems to be to deflect from the point you raised ... 'prospects for Crimea return'

That is zip - unless Russian man in the street accepts how it was done was wrong and any future [ agreed referendum ] would still bring about a majority for being Russian.

Far better that Russia pays compensation and allows folk from there to remain Ukrainian passport holders and campaign for fair treatment of indigenous minorities.

Too much of the 'bad news' you and AKMike post is more wishful thinking ..... People here, aren't blaming the govt. and when / if they do ... THEN you might have a point ..

I'm - whether we like it or not - describing the mood as it exists. Crimea 'isn't coming back' and compensation for assets lost / seized / misappropriated needs to be formulated.

I agree that sanctions must remain  - in principle - until Kremlin 'away games' are acknowledged and compensation agreed




Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline mhr7

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2016, 03:53:57 AM »
Well, you already misrepresented my explaining the stance of the maj. of people - based on govt misdirection  - my opinion .. if that was being 'polite'  ;)

Now, you presume to suggest I'm an 'apologist' for Kremlin 'away games' ?   :D

You are telling it as you see it - taking no account of my advising you that there is not the remotest sign of any 'guilt / remorse / contrition - or change of heart...let alone 'agreeing' that targeted sanctions on those supporting the 'away games' are affecting the man in the street- which is how the Kremlin want man in the street to feel  ;D

That's admirable - but how is taking positive action in Ukraine 'countering' the opinion of Russian man in the street ?



I wholeheartedly agree that Ukrainians need a roots up anti-corruption drive and a frozen civil war in the east and Crimea's 'removal' don't help.

But ...Your point, seems to be to deflect from the point you raised ... 'prospects for Crimea return'

That is zip - unless Russian man in the street accepts how it was done was wrong and any future [ agreed referendum ] would still bring about a majority for being Russian.

Far better that Russia pays compensation and allows folk from there to remain Ukrainian passport holders and campaign for fair treatment of indigenous minorities.

Too much of the 'bad news' you and AKMike post is more wishful thinking ..... People here, aren't blaming the govt. and when / if they do ... THEN you might have a point ..

I'm - whether we like it or not - describing the mood as it exists. Crimea 'isn't coming back' and compensation for assets lost / seized / misappropriated needs to be formulated.

I agree that sanctions must remain  - in principle - until Kremlin 'away games' are acknowledged and compensation agreed
+1

Jay you are clueless when it comes to the opinions and attitudes of the Russian people.
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2016, 04:05:20 AM »
+1

Jay you are clueless when it comes to the opinions and attitudes of the Russian people.

Actually-- I think it is the likes of you and Moby who is clueless on the topic.
You and a lot of others think they are clueless morons--if you bother to actually read what I ( that is me-- as in I )  said  it is a little different to that.

What I am sure of-- all of you  who see the sun shining out out of Putin   ARE COMPLETELY CLUELESS ON THE OPINIONS AND ATTITUDES OF THE UKRAINIAN  PEOPLE.
Not too long ago you would have been trying to tell us"Ukrainians will not fight Russia" etc.
It is like you swallow Putins line-- we are all Russian people type crap-- and ignore the fact that he has permanently changed Ukrainians opinions.

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Belvis

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2016, 04:34:00 AM »
Jay you are clueless when it comes to the opinions and attitudes of the Russian people.

I would dare to suggest he is clueless also about what Ukrainians really think about Donbass and Crimea and takes all they're saying him in all good faith.  That's a problem for expats with low level of critical thinking and limited access to inner social circles except his family. 

Offline mhr7

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2016, 06:04:06 AM »
Actually-- I think it is the likes of you and Moby who is clueless on the topic.
You and a lot of others think they are clueless morons--if you bother to actually read what I ( that is me-- as in I )  said  it is a little different to that.

What I am sure of-- all of you  who see the sun shining out out of Putin   ARE COMPLETELY CLUELESS ON THE OPINIONS AND ATTITUDES OF THE UKRAINIAN  PEOPLE.
Not too long ago you would have been trying to tell us"Ukrainians will not fight Russia" etc.
It is like you swallow Putins line-- we are all Russian people type crap-- and ignore the fact that he has permanently changed Ukrainians opinions.

I don't think anyone here has hailed Putin as a hero. I have been to Ukraine several times since Maidan and have numerous contacts there so I am VERY familiar with the thoughts of the Ukrainians.

Jay, you just aren't as much of an expert as you think you are. You need to study the situation comprehensively.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 06:11:02 AM by mhr7 »
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Offline The Natural

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2016, 11:35:41 AM »
Crimea Return to Ukraine?

Hahahahahahahahahahahah......hahahahahahahaha.

What's Next from the intellectual midget? Even his Brothers in arms is trying to guide him into the real world, so far in vain.

Offline jone

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2016, 11:50:05 AM »
Russia has opened such a can of worms by annexing Crimea:

Cash outlay per year:  17 Billion (estimates given over the past two years - amalgamated - include Bridge project, laying out electric grid, lack of tax collected, etc. Does not include loss of revenue from redirected tourists.)

Annexation of Crimea siphons off Russian Speakers / Russian Nationals vote away from opposition to current Kyiv government, making future elections of such Russian advocates unelectable.

Nationalistic spirit from Crimea acquisition draining in Crimea as tourism is relegated to Russians who lack significant funds to make use of it ... and might be more inclined to choose developed Sochi.

Crimeans operate with a lower standard of living than they experienced under Ukraine.    Access to social services, infrastructure at a significant drop compared to expectations upon annexation.

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Offline Darth_Budda

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2016, 03:10:28 PM »
My dads doctor is from crimea..
She was happy when she heard the news...

No Ukrainian I spoke to during my trips.. thought East Ukraine or Crimea.. would return to Ukraine...

I am sure their are many who would disagree...
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2016, 08:32:48 PM »
Jay, it will be a long time, if ever, for Crimea to be returned.

Russia was dishonest and pathetic in the way the illegal annexation was carried out, but it was done. Kyiv would be wise to, someday when Moscow is exhausted, to broker an agreement that Crimea can stay in hell and the demons of Satan will pull out of Donbas.

But, that may take awhile.

I got a good laugh the other day when having lunch with a well-known businessman. He wanted to set me straight about how "historically" Crimea has supposedly belonged to Russia. I reminded him of the time of Russian possession compared with Turkish and Greek possession. Russia seems so small and insignificant when those facts are revealed. He turned white and changed the subject.

Even so, not only will this not change, but Russia's possession of Crimea is a prison sentence rather than a victory. Let them rot with that stinking dead pig wrapped around the Bear's neck.

I only feel badly for the real inhabitants--the persecuted Tatars.
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Offline Darth_Budda

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2016, 05:19:35 AM »
Let's be Honest,,

In West Ukraine Their are  " Pure Ukrainians"  = only speak Ukrainian...
In the Far East their are Russian-Ukrainians =  Mostly speak only Russian...
In the center of the country you have more Ukrainian-Russians - = Speak a mix of Ukrainian and Russian..

In the West the Communist Party is Banned...
In The East... The Hard Line Communists Joined the fight against Kiev and the Oligarchs...
Nazi like, organizations went West and Joined Kiev....


The True Enemy of Ukraine is the oligarchs..
The True Enemy of Russia is the Oligarchs,,,

Their is a serious divide in side the country,,,

Ukrainian Government wants peace..  But they only push more war..

The War is good for the Ukrainian Oligarchs...
They make money, while the Poor Ukrainian is sent to the front with little training or supplies..

The Current government in Kiev is a joke....
Corruption is worst than before..
The economy is going the way of Greece... 

I can not see Ukraine recovering.. Until the Oligarchs are destroyed..
This will require a real revolution,,, Not pushed by the Far Right and the USA state department...


We need a government of action to fight for working families!
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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2016, 08:47:18 AM »
Darth_Budda!

How dare you write the most intelligent comment ever posted on this board!  I was hoping to do that, but now it's too late!

I liked all the videos from the "war" where the volunteers are all saying after the conflict is over in the East, the next battle will be in Kyiv, maybe that's why the war isn't over yet?


Offline Boethius

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2016, 09:21:18 AM »
In West Ukraine Their are  " Pure Ukrainians"  = only speak Ukrainian...

Almost every Ukrainian, even in the West, uses Russian words.  The result of half a century of policies of Russification.

Quote
In the center of the country you have more Ukrainian-Russians - = Speak a mix of Ukrainian and Russian..

Some can speak Ukrainian.  Some can speak Russian.  Many, mostly escapees, speak Surzhik.  Relatively few can speak both Ukrainian and Russian.

Quote
In the West the Communist Party is Banned...

No, it is banned nation wide.  That came 2 decades too late, though.

Quote
In The East... The Hard Line Communists Joined the fight against Kiev and the Oligarchs...
And who do you think those hard line communists are?  Same oligarchs, just serving a different master.
Quote
Nazi like, organizations went West and Joined Kiev....

A myth perpetuated by one side.

Quote
The True Enemy of Ukraine is the oligarchs..

I'll agree with that.

Quote
The Current government in Kiev is a joke....
Corruption is worst than before..
The economy is going the way of Greece... 

I agree the current government is corrupt.  But it is no more corrupt than any of its predecessors.

As for Crimea, it is not coming back.  Sanctions should stay in place.  But, I don't know why Ukraine would want it back.  It was always a net drain on Kyiv.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Muzh

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2016, 01:13:40 PM »
Here is Jay again roaming in Wonderland.


I doubt very much anyone here would accuse me of being a Russian apologist but, what Jay wrote is totally asinine. The man has no clue of the word "geopolitics" and he posts wishful thinking from left field as "facts."


I won't say Crimea will never return to Ukranine but I can say with certainty it will not happen in our lifetime.


Also, Ukraine is much better off by losing that ballast and having Russia pick it up.


Now, if the people could only deport all the (corrupt) potiticians to Devil's Island, then the country may have a chance.


And Jay, please, refrain from posting nonsense. It's becoming tiresome.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2016, 10:31:25 PM »
Actually-- I think it is the likes of you and Moby who is clueless on the topic.

JayH - I was giving you the perspective of Russian man in the street and why the Kremlin - under current leadership, probably any leadership - will NEVER  give Crimea back.

If this makes me 'clueless' - so be it - I've been labelled a 'russiophobe'  - ''shouldn't have my visa renewed''-  on the same day - such is life on internet forums ;)

Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline calmissile

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2016, 11:43:54 PM »
Here is Jay again roaming in Wonderland.


I doubt very much anyone here would accuse me of being a Russian apologist but, what Jay wrote is totally asinine. The man has no clue of the word "geopolitics" and he posts wishful thinking from left field as "facts."


I won't say Crimea will never return to Ukranine but I can say with certainty it will not happen in our lifetime.





Also, Ukraine is much better off by losing that ballast and having Russia pick it up.


Now, if the people could only deport all the (corrupt) potiticians to Devil's Island, then the country may have a chance.


And Jay, please, refrain from posting nonsense. It's becoming tiresome.


Actually you are the clueless one!

Hopefully president Trump is going to put enough pressure on Putin to give up Crimea.  There is no sense arguing with you over the illegal seizure of Crimea to start with, so I won't waste my time trying.

For someone that supported Obama and Clinton, you aren't exactly an example of the brightest star in the galaxy.    :D
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2016, 11:59:23 PM »
Actually you are the clueless one!

 :D


clueless ones haven't figured out that the Kremlin would love to have Trump as President - or why ...
 
Viz

Hopefully president Trump is going to put enough pressure on Putin to give up Crimea.  There is no sense arguing with you over the illegal seizure of Crimea to start with, so I won't waste my time trying.

Do tell us what sort of 'pressure' - 'coz only military victory would achieve Russia's removal...


For someone that supported Obama and Clinton, you aren't exactly an example of the brightest star in the galaxy.    :D

Not all members make this USA v Russia - I expect you don't read Russian news - as if you did - you'd have 'got' that is how this is portrayed.

 
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2016, 12:41:39 AM »
I would dare to suggest he is clueless also about what Ukrainians really think about Donbass and Crimea and takes all they're saying him in all good faith.  That's a problem for expats with low level of critical thinking and limited access to inner social circles except his family.

Such an endorsement on cluelessness is comic coming from you-- have you yet conceded that it is and was Russian troops who invaded Ukraine?
Perhaps you can let us all know again how the Russian military got to be in Ukraine!

The "problem" is that you know zero who I talk to in Ukraine--or anywhere else for that matter.
I am in no doubt that my critical thinking is being done  from a far wider range and more diverse groups of people than you could possibly conceive.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2016, 12:53:21 AM »
JayH - I was giving you the perspective of Russian man in the street and why the Kremlin - under current leadership, probably any leadership - will NEVER  give Crimea back.

If this makes me 'clueless' - so be it - I've been labelled a 'russiophobe'  - ''shouldn't have my visa renewed''-  on the same day - such is life on internet forums ;)

Moby-- you and others giving the Russian "man on the street's" view are comic. We all have a grasp on what he thinks- currently.
Take note  of that word.
If you-and others actually read what I said-- and the article says.
I have never suggested that Russia was going to willingly "just" give it back as things stand today.
That point is also addressed to a number of other posters in thread.

What is suggested was  the potential for circumstances that would change the current situation-- as does the article  referenced.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2016, 01:15:17 AM »
:D

Do tell us what sort of 'pressure' - 'coz only military victory would achieve Russia's removal...

Not all members make this USA v Russia - I expect you don't read Russian news - as if you did - you'd have 'got' that is how this is portrayed.

 

The "Russian" news you  read is clearly different to the news about Russia others see !!
Ironic that you raise the USA v Russia-- who does Russia and Russian hold responsible for the current ills?  That would be the USofA !!

While I am at it-- "your man on the Russian street" whose opinions you advance-- would he be the "friends" who own the limo you were cruising in? Or the chauffeur? Or perhaps it was one of the $200m Yacht owners you were gawking at-- or maybe just a more simple man on the street who can afford to holiday in Sochi- and pay for Yacht charters?
Yeah right-- I can see these are just ordinary Russians-at least by yours and FatherTimes definition!! And you called him clueless-at least that part you got right!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 01:29:57 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2016, 01:15:33 AM »
Actually you are the clueless one!

Hopefully president Trump is going to put enough pressure on Putin to give up Crimea.  There is no sense arguing with you over the illegal seizure of Crimea to start with, so I won't waste my time trying.

For someone that supported Obama and Clinton, you aren't exactly an example of the brightest star in the galaxy.    :D

Given Trump has praised Putin at every turn, it is more likely that, in the unlikely event Trump is elected, the virtual blow jobs will continue unabated. Crimea would not be on Trump's radar. In fact, he'd probably look for a way to remove existing sanctions.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 01:17:30 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2016, 02:03:04 AM »
Whoever wins in the US I hope that it will result in far more pro-active role in Ukraine.As commented above--that is no certainty-- but also quite unclear at this time.

As referenced in other recent post links there is a general groundswell  to do more than Obama has done. It has only been the resistance of Obama's immediate advisers that has prevented direct military aid. The belief that sanctions could make Putin and Russia see sense-- did not take into account that the Kremlin  does not care what Russians think--there is no democratic process to concern them.

Instead-they embarked on the biggest propaganda promotion of outright lies to lay a smoke screen in the attempt to confuse the issues. Even in this thread-- lot's of evidence of the success of that propaganda.

The bully needs to be treated with the same contempt he has shown the rest of the world.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline fathertime

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2016, 06:18:44 AM »


The "problem" is that you know zero who I talk to in Ukraine--or anywhere else for that matter.
I am in no doubt that my critical thinking is being done  from a far wider range and more diverse groups of people than you could possibly conceive.


Nobody cares who you pretend to 'talk to'...the most likely scenario is people roll their eyes and try to walk the other way if you are seen early enough......It is obvious that you don't have any ability to think critically in any event. Almost all of what you copy and paste is complete gibberish...


Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

 

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